[1/22/2011 10:06:06 PM] *** Ajay Balamurugadas added Mohinder Khosla ***

[1/22/2011 10:06:38 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Having Phil on board, we can talk about Software Testing
Communities

[1/22/2011 10:06:46 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: STC maybe

[1/22/2011 10:07:05 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: lets wait for 3 more mins & we decide on a topic.

[1/22/2011 10:07:06 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: ok?

[1/22/2011 10:07:16 PM] phil kirkham: ok with me

[1/22/2011 10:08:01 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Pick an adhoc topic

[1/22/2011 10:08:47 PM] Mohinder Khosla: I want to know which are key testing skilla a tester should
have

[1/22/2011 10:08:58 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: ok.

[1/22/2011 10:09:20 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Seems like we 3 are the ones to discuss.

[1/22/2011 10:09:40 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: I am ok with tester skills

[1/22/2011 10:09:44 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Phil?

[1/22/2011 10:10:12 PM] phil kirkham: fine with me - who was asking about this on twitter ?

[1/22/2011 10:10:21 PM] phil kirkham: darren or albert ?

[1/22/2011 10:10:51 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: I know, this was a recent conv somewhere. Mohinder,
remember?

[1/22/2011 10:11:35 PM] Mohinder Khosla: With Albert. Trying to separate out tester and testing skills

[1/22/2011 10:12:03 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: ok, we will have a max limit of 45 mins from now.

[1/22/2011 10:12:20 PM] phil kirkham: start the timer :)

[1/22/2011 10:12:37 PM | Edited 10:12:50 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: {Tester & testing} skills

[1/22/2011 10:13:10 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Is there a testing skill?

[1/22/2011 10:13:35 PM] phil kirkham: do we need to define/agree on what is meant by a skill ?

[1/22/2011 10:13:45 PM] phil kirkham: then refine this to testing ?

[1/22/2011 10:14:03 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: makes sense for me. Skill is... Ah, wiki
[1/22/2011 10:14:28 PM] phil kirkham: thats where I was going, what did we do before google and
wikipedia ?

[1/22/2011 10:14:44 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Skills that you have but do not require tools

[1/22/2011 10:14:48 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: ok, I am not looking at wiki

[1/22/2011 10:15:19 PM] Mohinder Khosla: 1. Communication 2. Collaboration

[1/22/2011 10:15:39 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: According to me - Skill is a way of doing things.
Something which defines how good/bad a person is at a task.

[1/22/2011 10:15:43 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Clear vision

[1/22/2011 10:16:14 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Approach is another one

[1/22/2011 10:16:14 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Example: Highly Skilled - A person does a particular job
well.

[1/22/2011 10:17:04 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Lest discuss the level of skills later. Stick to the list of skills a
tester should have to do his job apart from tolls

[1/22/2011 10:17:40 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Level you build with practice

[1/22/2011 10:17:41 PM] sys: Available commands:

/me [text]

/topic [text]

/add [skypename+]

/alertson [text]

/alertsoff

/leave

/goadmin

/get creator

/get role

/whois [skypename]

/setrole [skypename] MASTER|HELPER|USER|LISTENER

/kick [skypename]
/kickban [skypename]

/get uri

/get guidelines

/get xguidelines

/set guidelines [text]

/get options

/set options [[+|-]flag] ..

/setpassword [password] [password hint]

/clearpassword

/get password_hint

/get banlist

/get allowlist

/set banlist [[+|-]mask] ..

/set allowlist [[+|-]mask] ..

/golive [token]

/help

For more help please see http://www.skype.com/go/help.chathelp

[1/22/2011 10:17:51 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: oops

[1/22/2011 10:17:54 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: what did I do

[1/22/2011 10:18:06 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: are you guys seeing some system commands?

[1/22/2011 10:18:16 PM] phil kirkham: not me, just chat

[1/22/2011 10:18:34 PM] phil kirkham: hope you're not wiping your computer in the background

[1/22/2011 10:18:35 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: I got this

[1/22/2011 10:18:36 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 10:17 PM] sys:
<<< Available commands:

/me [text]

/topic [text]

/add [skypename+]

/alertson [text]

/alertsoff

/leave

/goadmin

/get creator

/get role

/whois [skypename]

/setrole [skypename] MASTER|HELPER|USER|LISTENER

/kick [skypename]

/kickban [skypename]

/get uri

/get guidelines

/get xguidelines

/set guidelines [text]

/get options

/set options [[+|-]flag] ..

/setpassword [password] [password hint]

/clearpassword

/get password_hint

/get banlist

/get allowlist
/set banlist [[+|-]mask] ..

/set allowlist [[+|-]mask] ..

/golive [token]

/help

[1/22/2011 10:19:03 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: let me recollect what I typed

[1/22/2011 10:19:37 PM] sys: Available commands:

/me [text]

/topic [text]

/add [skypename+]

/alertson [text]

/alertsoff

/leave

/goadmin

/get creator

/get role

/whois [skypename]

/setrole [skypename] MASTER|HELPER|USER|LISTENER

/kick [skypename]

/kickban [skypename]

/get uri

/get guidelines

/get xguidelines

/set guidelines [text]

/get options

/set options [[+|-]flag] ..

/setpassword [password] [password hint]

/clearpassword

/get password_hint

/get banlist

/get allowlist

/set banlist [[+|-]mask] ..

/set allowlist [[+|-]mask] ..

/golive [token]

/help

For more help please see http://www.skype.com/go/help.chathelp

[1/22/2011 10:19:57 PM] *** Ajay Balamurugadas sent I typed this.txt,... ***

[1/22/2011 10:20:27 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: I will investigate later.

[1/22/2011 10:20:57 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: I wanted to say that - if we know what a skill is, it will
help us define & list skills better

[1/22/2011 10:21:03 PM] phil kirkham: a tester skill - being able to recollect what you just typed :)

[1/22/2011 10:21:24 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: :) I learnt it in BBST Bug Advocacy course.

[1/22/2011 10:21:55 PM | Edited 10:22:02 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Dr.Cem told - as soon as you see a
bug & if you are unable to reproduce it, try to recollect what you did and note down

[1/22/2011 10:22:09 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Keep in mind the next question would be where to/how to
get those skills if you don't have them and essential for your job

[1/22/2011 10:22:10 PM] phil kirkham: "A skill is the learned capacity to carry out pre-determined
results often with the minimum outlay of time, energy, or both" - thats the wikipedia defn.
Agree/disagree with this ?

[1/22/2011 10:22:46 PM] phil kirkham: skillful people seem to make a task look easy

[1/22/2011 10:22:57 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: No, I don't agree with the pre-defined results part

[1/22/2011 10:23:02 PM] Mohinder Khosla: You need to trace it back to a point when the bug appears ie
analysing historial data

[1/22/2011 10:23:02 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: completely.

[1/22/2011 10:23:21 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: oops completely was an addendum for my comment

[1/22/2011 10:23:56 PM] phil kirkham: I guessed that the 'pre-defined' part would be the bit that would
attract attention.

[1/22/2011 10:24:01 PM] phil kirkham: why ?

[1/22/2011 10:24:02 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: :)

[1/22/2011 10:24:21 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: pre-defined knowledge might help me develop a new
skill

[1/22/2011 10:24:27 PM] *** Ajay Balamurugadas added tonybruceuk ***

[1/22/2011 10:24:50 PM] phil kirkham: hi tony, welcome aboard

[1/22/2011 10:25:32 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: new skill might have nothing to do with pre-defined
result. it might be a new task

[1/22/2011 10:25:36 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Hi Tony.

[1/22/2011 10:25:45 PM] tonybruceuk: Afternoon, evening, or morning all.

[1/22/2011 10:26:00 PM] Mohinder Khosla: pre-defined knowledge would have pre-defined context a
starting point. Is there such a thing and how to trace it back to that point

[1/22/2011 10:26:06 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Hi Tony

[1/22/2011 10:26:34 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Yes, as testers say - if you get stuck, get back to known
state & try from there.

[1/22/2011 10:27:06 PM] phil kirkham: back to the skill definition - a skilled footballer/cricketer can hit a
ball and know exactly where it will go - the pre-defined result

[1/22/2011 10:27:34 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Thee are two state:you know or you don't.Maybe is ana
option but not ideal to make a good decision

[1/22/2011 10:27:46 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: ok, he knows the hitting part, he assumes it will go there.

[1/22/2011 10:27:50 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: /assumes/

[1/22/2011 10:28:43 PM] phil kirkham: a skilled cricketer /knows/ it will, a novice cricketer /hopes/ it
will ?

[1/22/2011 10:28:59 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Tiger wood would be a good example.Land on the
green.Would require co-ordination, prractice etc?
[1/22/2011 10:29:16 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: ok, add /to some degree/ or /with a greater degree of
confidence/ at end

[1/22/2011 10:29:36 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Yes, so those are skills? @Mohinder

[1/22/2011 10:29:44 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: or parts of skill

[1/22/2011 10:30:26 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: I would say - Skill is subjective, you can't measure?

[1/22/2011 10:31:06 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Wind direction, ground conditions, weather all affect the
result and that is hard to master.Gamber may predict the winning by repeated gambling

[1/22/2011 10:31:24 PM] phil kirkham: @ajay - measure if the ball goes on the green or in the rough,
fairly easy to see who is skilled and who is not

[1/22/2011 10:32:07 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Can we take Football example. I am more comfortable at
football ;)

[1/22/2011 10:32:24 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Skills are quantifiable otherwise you won't be able to
predict how good someone is.There will be degree of inaccuracy though

[1/22/2011 10:32:36 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: inaccuracy in measurement?

[1/22/2011 10:32:54 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: 15 mins left

[1/22/2011 10:33:04 PM] tonybruceuk: A question was asked on Linkedin on skilled testers, I blogged
my answer: http://sqablogs.com/tonybruce/2463/%22Skilled%22+tester+-+do+you+know+what+it+is
%3F.html

[1/22/2011 10:33:12 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: no 25

[1/22/2011 10:34:01 PM] phil kirkham: once again discussion of testing drifts into analogies.... :)

[1/22/2011 10:34:09 PM] Mohinder Khosla: We should start lising the key essential skills a tester must
have

[1/22/2011 10:34:21 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: so @Phil, lets get back

[1/22/2011 10:34:51 PM] tonybruceuk: So are we saying that skill is measured by the result? Because
people get lucky, and there are various factors that'll affect the result that have nothing to do with skill

[1/22/2011 10:35:04 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: I might fall in this trap of listing

[1/22/2011 10:35:25 PM] Mohinder Khosla: analogy is good so you can analyse which skills you should
have to carry out your job.Self analysis

[1/22/2011 10:35:36 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: but I feel its ok. In the given situation (limited time) this
is the best we or I can do :)
[1/22/2011 10:36:10 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: * Meeting the mission - Important skill

[1/22/2011 10:36:22 PM] phil kirkham: @tony you have to be able to do it consistently. A lucky tester
might stumble upon a showstopper occasioanly, a skilled tester will do it consistently

[1/22/2011 10:36:36 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Clear answers are better than vague ideas

[1/22/2011 10:37:19 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Phil: Consistent performer

[1/22/2011 10:37:37 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: ok.

[1/22/2011 10:37:49 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Good communicator

[1/22/2011 10:37:54 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: What next, all on one track or we still in different trains?

[1/22/2011 10:38:00 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Good at liasion

[1/22/2011 10:38:11 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Good collaborator

[1/22/2011 10:38:22 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Good listener

[1/22/2011 10:38:44 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: we can remove the 'good' part

[1/22/2011 10:38:45 PM] phil kirkham: @mohinder All these skills are relevant for most jobs. are we
after specific tester skills ?

[1/22/2011 10:38:46 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Accept criticism

[1/22/2011 10:38:56 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: obviously we don't need bad listener

[1/22/2011 10:38:57 PM] tonybruceuk: OK, I think it's pretty hard to make a list of skills and so far that
could be a list for pretty much anything?

[1/22/2011 10:39:32 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @phil Essential skills for a tester does not matter whether
they apply to other professions

[1/22/2011 10:39:33 PM] phil kirkham: could we come up with one specific tester skill and how to
improve it ?

[1/22/2011 10:39:48 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Yes, Sounds good Phil

[1/22/2011 10:39:51 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @phil take a pick

[1/22/2011 10:39:59 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: in the interest of time, we can pick up 3 skills only

[1/22/2011 10:40:07 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: and describe & discuss

[1/22/2011 10:41:05 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Bug Hunter, Bug Investigator, Good Test Framer. Agree
that this might fail in many contexts though.
[1/22/2011 10:41:44 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Ah, I too use Good :)

[1/22/2011 10:41:46 PM] Mohinder Khosla: I pick communication.Want to know where to get help from
within the organisation if it is identified as your weakness as a tester

[1/22/2011 10:42:11 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Phil/Tony

[1/22/2011 10:43:12 PM] phil kirkham: Bug Hunter - pick that as a skill and work out how someone
could become more skilled at it ( which would undoubtedly mean using several other skills )

[1/22/2011 10:43:22 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Looks Albert is online and may join the discussion

[1/22/2011 10:43:27 PM] *** Ajay Balamurugadas added shrinik ***

[1/22/2011 10:43:28 PM] *** Ajay Balamurugadas added Albert Gareev ***

[1/22/2011 10:43:52 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @Ajay reset the clock please

[1/22/2011 10:43:53 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Hello Shrini, Albert

[1/22/2011 10:43:56 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 10:43 PM] phil kirkham:

<<< Bug Hunter - pick that as a skill and work out how someone could become more skilled at it ( which
would undoubtedly mean using several other skills )

[1/22/2011 10:44:09 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Hi Shrini, Allbert

[1/22/2011 10:44:22 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: 1 hr more + 16 mins from now.

[1/22/2011 10:44:34 PM] Albert Gareev: Hello! (handshake)

[1/22/2011 10:45:35 PM] phil kirkham: are we starting afresh or carry on with the Bug Hunter skill
discussion ?

[1/22/2011 10:45:59 PM] shrinik: please carry on

[1/22/2011 10:46:37 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Remember we are discussing testing skills ti hunt bugs
without reference to tools

[1/22/2011 10:46:47 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: so after 35 mins of discussion, we have come to one
common topic :

[Saturday, January 22, 2011 10:43 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas:

<<< Bug Hunter - pick that as a skill and work out how someone could become more skilled at it ( which
would undoubtedly mean using several other skills )

[1/22/2011 10:46:49 PM] Albert Gareev: Can we ask more questions while going?

[1/22/2011 10:47:10 PM] phil kirkham: ask away - that's a good tester skill :)

[1/22/2011 10:47:27 PM] Albert Gareev: I'm not sure I got the charter and the goal

[1/22/2011 10:47:56 PM] shrinik: this is a free format discussion right?

[1/22/2011 10:48:04 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Yes @Shrini.

[1/22/2011 10:48:15 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: @Albert: What are you expecting?

[1/22/2011 10:48:21 PM] phil kirkham: @Albert - there was no defined topic or charter, just some
people hanging around talking testing and we used your tweet as a discussion starter

[1/22/2011 10:48:28 PM] shrinik: ok...topic "bug hunting skills"

[1/22/2011 10:49:01 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: and how a tester can improve his/her 'bug hunting' skill

[1/22/2011 10:49:22 PM] phil kirkham: A skillful tester will find the most important bugs more quickly
and efficiently than an unskilled one. How does he/she get to that state ?

[1/22/2011 10:49:24 PM] Mohinder Khosla: 1. Good at analysis requirements 2. good at communicating
at all levels to gather the right information necessary to get started and get the focuss

[1/22/2011 10:50:04 PM] shrinik: import tool to improve bug hunting skill - PRACTICE

[1/22/2011 10:50:17 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: @Mohinder: What are these?

1. Good at analysis requirements 2. good at communicating at all levels to gather the right information
necessary to get started and get the focuss

[1/22/2011 10:50:25 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 10:48 PM] shrinik:

<<< ok...topic "bug hunting skills"I little questioning on the topic.

[1/22/2011 10:50:31 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: @Shrini - practice is a tool?

[1/22/2011 10:50:44 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @Albert charter seems to be what skills a tester needs to
hunt bugs successfully and where would he get help from

[1/22/2011 10:51:15 PM] shrinik: practice is a tool achieve better bug hunting skills
[1/22/2011 10:51:28 PM] phil kirkham: @shrinik Which is why Weekend Testing is such a great
concept :)

[1/22/2011 10:51:33 PM] tonybruceuk: Practice and experience, being able to identify areas that are
likely to hold the bugs, this may come from past experience, may come from communication with the
rest of the team, may come from domain knowledge, may come from environment knowledge,etc.

[1/22/2011 10:51:34 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: @Mohinder: i think - the charter is slighty different. phil
correct me if I am wrong. The charter is 'How to improve bug hunting skill'

[1/22/2011 10:51:35 PM] Albert Gareev: To me, bug hunting per se is not always a mission. Rather
problems get identified by a skilled tester while s/he is exploring* an application.

[1/22/2011 10:52:26 PM] Albert Gareev: Exploring - trial-and-error, learning, investigation

[1/22/2011 10:52:52 PM] phil kirkham: @Albert - but why would you be exploring an application ?

[1/22/2011 10:53:23 PM] phil kirkham: isnt your charter to explore an app and find problems ?

[1/22/2011 10:54:06 PM] tonybruceuk: I'm going to bow out of the chat, got a small headache which is
budding into a nice one by look at the screen, bye all, have a good weekend!

[1/22/2011 10:54:19 PM] shrinik: one sign of excellent bug hunting skills is - it is inexhaustiable

[1/22/2011 10:54:39 PM] Mohinder Khosla: If a child start testing whether water is hot or cold then he is
bound to burn his fingers.So you need to prepare yourself with some dos and don't before you explore

[1/22/2011 10:55:18 PM] Mohinder Khosla: bye Tony

[1/22/2011 10:55:29 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: More test ideas = more chances of finding bugs?

[1/22/2011 10:55:35 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 10:49 PM] phil kirkham:

<<< A skillful tester will find the most important bugs more quickly and efficiently than an unskilled one.
How does he/she get to that state ?- Through thoughtful practice, thinking, learning and re-learning...
eventually skills become "second skin", i.e. "gut feeling" rings on if a problem flashed

[1/22/2011 10:56:21 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Agree, his vision changes - something like a X-Ray Vision

[1/22/2011 10:56:29 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: - A Bug- Vision ? :)

[1/22/2011 10:57:06 PM] phil kirkham: so what should a novice tester be practising and learning ?

[1/22/2011 10:57:10 PM] shrinik: how good it your emergency reponse? Can you test something NOW?

[1/22/2011 10:57:26 PM] shrinik: take such challenges impromptu....

[1/22/2011 10:57:48 PM] Mohinder Khosla: I have a mat with inscription Bugs? Get'em early. Life? Live
it

[1/22/2011 10:57:50 PM | Edited 10:58:40 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: @Shrinik - Are you prepared now?
if yes, what is your strength/thought process which helps you test right now

[1/22/2011 10:58:03 PM | Edited 10:58:29 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: If no,. what skills do you think is
preventing that

[1/22/2011 10:58:09 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 10:53 PM] phil kirkham:

<<< isnt your charter to explore an app and find problems ?I'll use analogy to explain. I'm fishing for over
25 years no. I like it, I'm quite good at it, and my fishing trips are /almost/ always successful. But I don't
go fishing to catch a fish. I enjoy the process and fish magically appears during it :)

[1/22/2011 10:58:33 PM] Albert Gareev: Tony, bye!

[1/22/2011 10:58:35 PM] shrinik: If I practice more, again and again...

[1/22/2011 10:59:07 PM] shrinik: then I wll become more prepared for on demand testing

[1/22/2011 10:59:07 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Agree, practice is ok. What kind of practice! What is
essential element in that practice

[1/22/2011 10:59:17 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: This will help a novice tester.

[1/22/2011 10:59:49 PM] Albert Gareev: Typo: should be "now" instead of "no".

[1/22/2011 11:00:05 PM] phil kirkham: @Albert - so if you dont catch a fish does this show that the
lake/river does not have any fish ? which is in itself useful information

[1/22/2011 11:00:24 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: A novice tester who is reading this chat - will say - ok, I
practice at office. I am not getting any better

[1/22/2011 11:00:26 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @shrinik Alan Page said in his recent webinar that Practice
Practice Practice to get better at finding bugs

[1/22/2011 11:00:36 PM] shrinik: practice... essential element? thinking

[1/22/2011 11:00:49 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: I believe the right practice - What is the right practice,
we can discuss here.

[1/22/2011 11:01:21 PM] shrinik: let us take analogy - what is practice mean for a cricketer or a
musician?
[1/22/2011 11:01:28 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @If a tester is not getting better because he does not do
retrospective. He does not question why he is not getting better

[1/22/2011 11:01:38 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:00 PM] phil kirkham:

<<< @Albert - so if you dont catch a fish does this show that the lake/river does not have any fish ?
which is in itself useful informationYes, I'm still learning about the waterbody. I get to know the places
where it's most likely to be. Getting to know of different patterns.. Exploratory Fishing - that's worth a
blog post or an article!

[1/22/2011 11:02:00 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Good point Mohinder, we will get back to that
immediately after the analogy

[1/22/2011 11:02:24 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @Albert I like the idea of exploratory fishing

[1/22/2011 11:02:48 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Simulating his weak areas in net sessions & trying to get
better at what he is doing

[1/22/2011 11:02:48 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:00 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas:

<<< I believe the right practice - What is the right practice, we can discuss here.It's practice and thinking
of it. I learnt many things (not only in testing!) - retrospectively!

[1/22/2011 11:03:40 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @Albert right practice is the one that works for you but it
may not work for others or other situations

[1/22/2011 11:03:44 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:02 PM] Mohinder Khosla:

<<< @Albert I like the idea of exploratory fishingI promise to write about it :) just need Darren to tell
where can I get 48 hrs in a day

[1/22/2011 11:03:55 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Yes, @Albert. Many lessons in Weekend Testing too are
discovered during the discussion session.

[1/22/2011 11:04:06 PM] phil kirkham: I could practice fishing by going to the same spot with the same
bait and the same rod - do that every day for a year and would I be a more skillful fisherman ?

[1/22/2011 11:04:32 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Shrini - Simulate weak areas / tough situations & practice
to face that

[1/22/2011 11:04:45 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:03 PM] Mohinder Khosla:
<<< @Albert right practice is the one that works for you but it may not work for others or other
situationsMohinder, I meant "practice as an activity", not "practice as a pattern of an activity".

[1/22/2011 11:04:55 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: @Phil : Perfect, That's exactly what I wanted to convey

[1/22/2011 11:05:09 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @phil there is nack to everything either you have it or you
don't but you can work on it and be good at it

[1/22/2011 11:05:26 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:04 PM] phil kirkham:

<<< I could practice fishing by going to the same spot with the same bait and the same rod - do that
every day for a year and would I be a more skillful fisherman ?Definitely (if you were learning)

[1/22/2011 11:06:16 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: :) Phil - maybe the words - 'doing the same thing & not
learning anything new' would add to your point.

[1/22/2011 11:06:56 PM] phil kirkham: as the famous quote says 'Practice does not make perfect,
perfect practice makes perfect'

[1/22/2011 11:07:03 PM | Edited 11:07:24 PM] Albert Gareev: Same spot is not the same spot even
during day/night hours. Throughout a year it's like 365*N different spots. And we only started variation.
Fish has its cycles too.

[1/22/2011 11:07:04 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: So, it brings back to Mohinder's point - not learning - no
retrospective

[1/22/2011 11:07:25 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: 265?

[1/22/2011 11:07:30 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: ah ok

[1/22/2011 11:07:37 PM] phil kirkham: @Albert I think there is going to some mileage in your fishing
post :)

[1/22/2011 11:08:00 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @Ajay Identify your weakness is a tough cookie.Someone
else can identify for you with your help

[1/22/2011 11:08:01 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: So, so relating it to testing, where are we?

[1/22/2011 11:08:46 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Again retro should be done with good intensions without
prior prejuidice

[1/22/2011 11:08:55 PM] shrinik: So how do testers practice

[1/22/2011 11:09:00 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: ok, retro is important

[1/22/2011 11:09:12 PM] Albert Gareev: @Phil, you don't say :) and I'm gonna be tweeting about testing
while fishing

[1/22/2011 11:09:28 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: do you need a coach to practice? or to help you with
retrospection?

[1/22/2011 11:09:32 PM] phil kirkham: @Albert LOL

[1/22/2011 11:09:47 PM] shrinik: coach will be good to have

[1/22/2011 11:10:10 PM] Albert Gareev: @Ajay - coach helps you to discover new dimensions

[1/22/2011 11:10:48 PM] Mohinder Khosla: There is also a concept of retro of retro if you are not
familiar. Once you identified your failings then work on it and do another retro to verify and keep on
going till you get it ight.Retro has no ending

[1/22/2011 11:10:52 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Having a coach is to make use of her experience which is
more than my experience

[1/22/2011 11:11:02 PM] shrinik: I am finding it challenging to frame what practice testers should do...

[1/22/2011 11:11:12 PM] Albert Gareev: But sometimes it could be anyone. Your colleague, your
spouse.. just talk with them on the subject.

[1/22/2011 11:11:30 PM] phil kirkham: Has anyone here had a testing coach/mentor ? I used the online
community as my coach...

[1/22/2011 11:12:03 PM] shrinik: Michael, James have been my coaches

[1/22/2011 11:12:11 PM] Albert Gareev: Another trick I found helpful: WRITE about it (it helps already)
but you can also leave it for a while (day, week), and re-read. Might give you an insight!

[1/22/2011 11:12:17 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @phil we are your coach and it works the other way as well

[1/22/2011 11:12:18 PM] *** Ajay Balamurugadas sent Resources.PNG,... ***

[1/22/2011 11:12:19 PM] shrinik: they oriented me to a new thinking in testing

[1/22/2011 11:12:48 PM] phil kirkham: @shrinik Lucky you - though that 'luck' was earned through your
hard work

[1/22/2011 11:13:05 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:11 PM] phil kirkham:

<<< Has anyone here had a testing coach/mentor ? I used the online community as my coach...+1, and
add yourself as your coach
[1/22/2011 11:13:27 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:13 PM] Albert Gareev:

<<< add yourself as your coachVery Important - you know yourself the best :)

[1/22/2011 11:15:29 PM] shrinik: you and you as coach are indistingushable at all times ... mostly

[1/22/2011 11:15:44 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @Ajay the problem is you can't find your weakneses in you
unless it is pointed out to you so you another pair of eyes as we say in testing or support in life

[1/22/2011 11:15:49 PM] Albert Gareev: I guess, then the coach question should be restated like 'is
there anyone who was not interested in testing but the coach recognized a potential, and kept pushing
and motivating until made a good tester from you"

[1/22/2011 11:15:49 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: its like playing chess with self.

[1/22/2011 11:16:31 PM] Albert Gareev: Because, otherwise, it's YOU 90% and other 10% vary

[1/22/2011 11:17:29 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @Albert Pull is a better word to use than push.You can only
pull to certain extent whereas push can screw you up

[1/22/2011 11:17:32 PM] shrinik: you playing yourself chess is not same as you yourself as your mentor

[1/22/2011 11:18:18 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:15 PM] Mohinder Khosla:

<<< @Ajay the problem is you can't find your weakneses in you unless it is pointed outIt's yes and no.
Weakness is an abstract thing, it depends on context, it falls under Michael Bolton's Relativity Rule.

[1/22/2011 11:18:52 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: ok, replaying a chess match b/w you & someone else &
retrospection - you are playing the role of coach there?

[1/22/2011 11:19:27 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: by replaying - I mean watching the moves played.

[1/22/2011 11:19:53 PM] shrinik: that is retrospection - not coaching

[1/22/2011 11:20:00 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:15 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas:

<<< its like playing chess with self.While limit only to that? Playing with yourself, solving chess puzzles,
making chess puzzles, watching other people playing, talking to everyone about it, annoying everyone to
play with you, too :)

[1/22/2011 11:20:50 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: what's /that/ which differentiates coaching from
retrospection?
[1/22/2011 11:21:03 PM] Albert Gareev: OK, I feel we deviated from the original topic.

[1/22/2011 11:21:06 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: I am my own coach - no one has heard or said that?

[1/22/2011 11:21:07 PM] shrinik: when you become self critical - you are coaching yourself

[1/22/2011 11:21:15 PM] Albert Gareev: Testing Skills vs. Testers' Skills

[1/22/2011 11:21:30 PM | Edited 11:21:53 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Sorry Albert :) bug hunting was the
topic.

[1/22/2011 11:21:42 PM] shrinik: that lead to practice of testing

[1/22/2011 11:21:43 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: how to improve bug hunting skills.

[1/22/2011 11:21:57 PM] Albert Gareev: Developing them with coach - yes. But what is *them* ?

[1/22/2011 11:22:02 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: and practice led to coaches

[1/22/2011 11:22:06 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @Ajay If you presenting, doing a practice infront of a mirror
is not sufficient you need a test run infront of real audiences.So you call your friends around buy them
lunch and here you go

[1/22/2011 11:22:47 PM] shrinik: Mohinder --- public speaking and testing differ in that way

[1/22/2011 11:23:06 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: @Albert Them = Ability to get to the stage where finding
good bugs becomes second nature.

[1/22/2011 11:23:14 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:22 PM] Mohinder Khosla:

<<< If you presenting, doing a practice infront of a mirror is not sufficientTry video. This way you do 2
different activities at 2 different times

[1/22/2011 11:23:28 PM] shrinik: you can test alone and learn but for public speeaking - some real
practice is required once in a while

[1/22/2011 11:23:51 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: 35 mins left

[1/22/2011 11:24:02 PM] shrinik: so in testing practice --- there is public practice and private practice

[1/22/2011 11:24:12 PM] shrinik: testing alone and testing with friends

[1/22/2011 11:24:42 PM] shrinik: there is dummy practice and real testing (paid or on-job) testing

[1/22/2011 11:24:46 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:23 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas:
<<< Them = Ability to get to the stage where finding good bugs becomes second nature.But it's not a
single ability, isn't it? It's a dynamic set of abilities. Let's try to look inside

[1/22/2011 11:24:46 PM] Mohinder Khosla: There is a theory that if you find one bug there is likely hood
the others are in the patch.Some call it bug density

[1/22/2011 11:25:06 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: ok just slowing down a bit

[1/22/2011 11:25:30 PM] phil kirkham: @albert - yes, thats what we thought, The bug hunting skill will
be made up of a number of other skills

[1/22/2011 11:25:34 PM] Albert Gareev: #TestingSkill Critical Thinking

[1/22/2011 11:25:47 PM] Albert Gareev: #TestingSkill Creativity

[1/22/2011 11:26:02 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: 1. Ability as Albert says - what's there inside

2. Shrini talks about different practice

3. Mohinder talks abt identifying bug cluster

[1/22/2011 11:26:08 PM] shrinik: let me define critical thinking --- questing own thinking and beliefs and
challenging them

[1/22/2011 11:26:08 PM] Albert Gareev: #TestingSkill Lateral Thinking

[1/22/2011 11:26:18 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @Albert True to do a job you may need a set of tools but in
other circumstances you may none.Your insincts or gut feeling

[1/22/2011 11:26:46 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: either we pick up one by one 1, 2, 3

[1/22/2011 11:26:51 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: or jump in.

[1/22/2011 11:27:40 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Maybe we can add #Testing Skill - list out all

[1/22/2011 11:27:55 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: I am going to take help of twitter - ;)

[1/22/2011 11:28:07 PM] shrinik: ok let is go with that

[1/22/2011 11:28:19 PM] Albert Gareev: #TestingSkill Parallel Thinking (not sure it's the best wording,
it's what works as Focusing/Defocusing as defined by James Bach)

[1/22/2011 11:29:38 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: #TestingSkill Questioning

[1/22/2011 11:29:57 PM] Albert Gareev: @Mohinder, yes we may need tools or "tool skills" (e.g. -
programming skills) in testing. But it's testing skills that we use while deciding which tool or technique to
go with

[1/22/2011 11:30:28 PM] shrinik: Beat confirmation bias by Critical thinking

[1/22/2011 11:30:48 PM] shrinik: Confirmatino bias - #1 Enemy of good testing

[1/22/2011 11:31:42 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @Albert Testers ahve a tool kit and skills to use them and
they decide which tools are needed fro the job and that is another skill

[1/22/2011 11:32:09 PM] shrinik: Building ones own set of tools is also a tester skill

[1/22/2011 11:32:50 PM] shrinik: asking "what is on my work table? what are my tools? what new tools
have I added recently? what I need more?

[1/22/2011 11:33:10 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Meeting the mission is a skill?

[1/22/2011 11:33:28 PM] shrinik: meeting the mission is a act of testing

[1/22/2011 11:33:32 PM] shrinik: not a skill

[1/22/2011 11:33:44 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Being aware of mission?

[1/22/2011 11:33:49 PM] Albert Gareev: #TestingSkill (Objective Thinking? need a good name for that)
being able to think without being affected by the context (i.e. environment, fashion, other people)
"Being tester means you don't have to agree with everybody" - Harry Robinson

[1/22/2011 11:34:33 PM] shrinik: being aware of mission - too operational (of testing)

[1/22/2011 11:34:54 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: I might be skilled but I don't meet mission

[1/22/2011 11:35:01 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: what;s that?

[1/22/2011 11:35:33 PM] shrinik: not meeting mission might have lot to do with things other than skill

[1/22/2011 11:36:00 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: I know there are lot of factors like context changed,
mission changed

[1/22/2011 11:36:03 PM] shrinik: say -- it was just a tough problem or you just need more time

[1/22/2011 11:36:47 PM] shrinik: Ajay - we need to think at a level higher than mission, charter etc
when it comes to skills

[1/22/2011 11:37:34 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: What is a tester who doesn't meet a misison? ok,.

[1/22/2011 11:37:35 PM] shrinik: at the level of critical thiking, speed of response, diversity of ideas

[1/22/2011 11:37:47 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: ok

[1/22/2011 11:37:49 PM | Edited 11:37:53 PM] Albert Gareev: I think, we started confusing testers' skills
with testing skills.. again

[1/22/2011 11:37:51 PM] *** Ajay Balamurugadas added Michel Kraaij ***
[1/22/2011 11:38:26 PM] Albert Gareev: Hi, Michel!

[1/22/2011 11:38:42 PM] shrinik: I think mixing tester skill and testing skill after some point of time
becomes invitable

[1/22/2011 11:38:43 PM] Michel Kraaij: Hi all

[1/22/2011 11:39:46 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: 21mins left.

[1/22/2011 11:40:06 PM] Mohinder Khosla: I was reading an article on systems thinking from Esther
Dermy and she describes:

[1/22/2011 11:40:19 PM] Albert Gareev: @Shrinik but it masks the core skills that make you good tester.
Or - if you don't know what are they - how could you efficiently teach someone those skills?

[1/22/2011 11:40:27 PM] Mohinder Khosla: You probably have a system problem if:

You have tried repeatedly to solve a problem and it keeps coming back

You replace people and the overall behavior doesn’t change

Multiple factors interact to produce the result.

[1/22/2011 11:41:58 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Testers need to keep looking for answers what skills are
required for which job and build on his strengths

[1/22/2011 11:42:20 PM] Albert Gareev: JB/MB say that with a context-driven heuristic based approach
we can test anything. Ergo, it's not only software bug hunting skills.

[1/22/2011 11:42:23 PM] shrinik: To me a tester skill or a testing skill is some essential element of being
a tester - something that you either have or learn and improve by practice

[1/22/2011 11:43:03 PM | Edited 11:43:12 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Ok, in EuroSTAR Hot Questions
Panel, Michael Bolton said - We must realize that there is no single tester skill.

[1/22/2011 11:43:08 PM] shrinik: critical thinking is an essential tester (or testing) skill

[1/22/2011 11:43:16 PM] Albert Gareev: OK, maybe we should try with a simpler model? For example,
driving skills vs. drivers' skills

[1/22/2011 11:43:29 PM] shrinik: systems thinking (thinking holistically) is another tester skill

[1/22/2011 11:43:55 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @Albert It is very difficult to separate testers skill from
testing skills.There is going to be an overlap

[1/22/2011 11:44:01 PM | Edited 11:44:15 PM] Michel Kraaij: What was his motivation for saying that,
Ajay?
[1/22/2011 11:44:26 PM] shrinik: Driver skills - can drive in rain, night, in heavy traffic at reasonable
speed with making accidents

[1/22/2011 11:45:12 PM] shrinik: Driver skill - can drive long, drive hills, hairpin bends, drive different
types of vehicles

[1/22/2011 11:45:30 PM] phil kirkham: back the analogies - fishing skills - can fish lakes, seas, rivers..

[1/22/2011 11:45:31 PM] Albert Gareev: @Shrinik let's begin with "can drive"

[1/22/2011 11:45:37 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: The question was: What is the most important skill of a
tester?

[1/22/2011 11:46:18 PM] Albert Gareev: Oops, I see it in a different perspective :)

[1/22/2011 11:46:19 PM] shrinik: @Ajay I think that was a "wrong" question as it assumed that there is
one -universal skill

[1/22/2011 11:46:20 PM] Michel Kraaij: okay, so he responded in there being "just one skill". Did he
gave any extra examples?

[1/22/2011 11:46:36 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Yes @Shrini.

[1/22/2011 11:47:09 PM] Albert Gareev: This is why I wanted "versus". To define what it is we need to
know what it's not

[1/22/2011 11:47:17 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Oh, yes: The most important skill of a tester is to realize
that there is no one important skill. His words echoed here now

[1/22/2011 11:47:17 PM] Michel Kraaij: There might be skills that every tester has, like us your brain,
and think.

[1/22/2011 11:47:21 PM] shrinik: Like teaching, parenting, politics - testing requires a diverse set of skills

[1/22/2011 11:48:02 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: 13 mins more.

[1/22/2011 11:48:17 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @shrinik Testing is multi disciplinary

[1/22/2011 11:48:30 PM] shrinik: @mohinder --- yes it is

[1/22/2011 11:48:44 PM] Albert Gareev: Example. Driving a boat - fisherman's skill. But it's not a fishing
skill

[1/22/2011 11:49:25 PM] Michel Kraaij: Albert, not for a lonely fisherman, on a pond.... but what if
you're a whaler?

[1/22/2011 11:49:31 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Testing mobile, embedded devices etc require different
skills
[1/22/2011 11:49:47 PM] shrinik: driving boat is a secondary fishing skill

[1/22/2011 11:49:58 PM] shrinik: for a fisherman

[1/22/2011 11:50:11 PM] Albert Gareev: @Michel. Let's define fishing as "angling fishing".

[1/22/2011 11:50:22 PM] Michel Kraaij: Ah, extra context ;)

[1/22/2011 11:50:31 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:49 PM] Mohinder Khosla:

<<< Testing mobile, embedded devices etc require different skillsSame core skills

[1/22/2011 11:51:08 PM] Mohinder Khosla: There will be primary and there will be secondary testing
skills that you need. Testing skills I would call primary and tooling skills secondary. Do you agree

[1/22/2011 11:51:14 PM] shrinik: I would say testing mobile requires differnt set of knowledge and
famility - not a diff testing skill

[1/22/2011 11:51:39 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:49 PM] shrinik:

<<< driving boat is a secondary fishing skill

for a fishermanIt has nothing to do with catching a fish. It's a transportation skill. It's not mandatory. You
can ask someone else to get you there.

[1/22/2011 11:51:57 PM] Michel Kraaij: @Mohinder, my hands are tools too. Primairy or secondary to
you?

[1/22/2011 11:52:10 PM] shrinik: you can apply "normal" testing skill to mobile apps as well

[1/22/2011 11:52:11 PM] *** Ajay Balamurugadas added Bala Sista ***

[1/22/2011 11:52:11 PM] Albert Gareev: @Mohinder "tooling skills" == "testers' skills"

[1/22/2011 11:52:48 PM] shrinik: >>> You can ask someone else to get you there.

[1/22/2011 11:54:04 PM] shrinik: Get there ? where... knowing where to fish and how long to stop at
location is imporatant to good fishing. that makes driving boat connected to fishing

[1/22/2011 11:54:25 PM] Mohinder Khosla: If you want to eat you can learn how to hold a spoon or fork
or you use your finger that does not require leaning. That's the answer which @Albert is looking for

[1/22/2011 11:54:37 PM | Edited 11:54:45 PM] Albert Gareev: @shrinik, @michel If you can
workaround the absense of a skill - it's not the core skill for the mission. Hands are tools, too.
[1/22/2011 11:54:54 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Testers know their territory so does fishermaen

[1/22/2011 11:54:58 PM] Michel Kraaij: @Albert, i agree.

[1/22/2011 11:55:03 PM] shrinik: OK ... let us there are primary testing skills and secondary ones

[1/22/2011 11:55:43 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: Friends, I have some work. I am leaving now. Please
don't kick me out from this chat. Thanks - Ajay

[1/22/2011 11:56:00 PM] Michel Kraaij: Have fun, Ajay!

[1/22/2011 11:56:14 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:54 PM] shrinik:

<<< Get there ? where... knowing where to fish and how long to stop at location is imporatant to good
fishing. that makes driving boat connected to fishing@Shrinik. I'm telling you to go where and where to
stop. You can get me there though you have no idea - because I have fishing skills, and you have
transportation skills, huh? :)

[1/22/2011 11:56:30 PM] Albert Gareev: Ajay, bye! Thanks

[1/22/2011 11:56:41 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Good going Ajay. See ya!

[1/22/2011 11:56:43 PM] Ajay Balamurugadas: officially we have 4 mins left. BTW you can continue :) I
see this going for next 35 mins.

[1/22/2011 11:56:50 PM] shrinik: @OK

[1/22/2011 11:57:26 PM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:54 PM] Mohinder Khosla:

<<< Testers know their territory so does fishermaenTesters have skills to learn about new territories, so
do fishermen

[1/22/2011 11:57:43 PM] phil kirkham: thanks @ajay, I have to go as well. Looking forward to the fishing
blog post @Albert

[1/22/2011 11:57:51 PM] shrinik: @Albert - agreed

[1/22/2011 11:58:34 PM] Albert Gareev: No, I'll have to go too :( Have plan to write WTA05 follow up
posts: Programmer's Hat and Test the Envisioned

[1/22/2011 11:58:38 PM] Mohinder Khosla: Testers need to keep on improving to stay in the game and
it is important that we do

[1/22/2011 11:58:52 PM] Mohinder Khosla: It is aquestion of survival

[1/22/2011 11:58:53 PM] shrinik: thnks everyone

[1/22/2011 11:59:00 PM] shrinik: It was a good discussion

[1/22/2011 11:59:05 PM] Michel Kraaij: Short for me, but still fun :)

[1/22/2011 11:59:12 PM] shrinik: I am going off too

[1/22/2011 11:59:14 PM] Mohinder Khosla: @shrinikThanks for joining

[1/22/2011 11:59:19 PM] Michel Kraaij: Lets continue this some other time...

[1/22/2011 11:59:24 PM] shrinik: sure ...

[1/22/2011 11:59:29 PM] Albert Gareev: I think, we need another session, but first agree on the
approach

[1/22/2011 11:59:30 PM] balakameshsista: Sorry didnt had chance to aprticiapte, but looking thru log it
was good

[1/22/2011 11:59:45 PM] balakameshsista: thanks everyone

[1/22/2011 11:59:51 PM] Mohinder Khosla: We are not done but taking a break would be a good idea

[1/22/2011 11:59:57 PM] Michel Kraaij: :)

[1/23/2011 12:00:01 AM] Albert Gareev: [Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:54 PM] Albert Gareev:

<<< If you can workaround the absense of a skill - it's not the core skill for the mission.

[1/23/2011 12:01:05 AM] Mohinder Khosla: I need to leave shortly but it has been a good conversation
so far

[1/23/2011 12:01:17 AM] Albert Gareev: Thanks everyone!

[1/23/2011 12:01:48 AM] Mohinder Khosla: I think we need to go through the script and do a retro and
add more bit to make it shiny

[1/23/2011 12:02:00 AM] Mohinder Khosla: Bye everyone

[1/23/2011 12:02:27 AM] Albert Gareev: Bye!