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G. Schmidt "Currenl dumping ampli er"
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M By marusmk , October 1, 2011in DIY
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Shoppster omogućava malim proizvođačima

PRIJAVITE SE
prodaju proizvoda bez dodatnih ulaganja.
1 2 FURTHER  Page 1 of 2 
marusmk Wrote October 1, 2011  # 1
There is a structure like in the title with the diagram below:
M
Users
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internship: 12 years and 2
months
283 replies
Kluby
I tried to nd something about her, but the Internet is quiet about him - at least to the west of
us.
In the east I found a little more.

Top Hi-Fi & Video Design …
But anyway - I don't catch electronics, even in Polish - so it doesn't give much.
The diagram after the changes that I found is as follows:
/

On the Russian forum, he collects good opinions for the beautiful bass (after changing the
output transistors), depth and resolution.
It is supposed to leave behind all integrated constructions and hybrids, and it is compared
with many recognized constructions (I do not write what because the war is about to come).

AUDIOSTEREO MAGAZINE
I am thinking about checking this design because of its simplicity, but I already know that the
simplicity in the diagram is often deceptive :)
Therefore, I would like to ask for your opinion and possible comments.
From what I have read, the D1 and D2 diodes, after changing the transistors, for example to IFi Audio Zen Can
2SA1943 / 2SC5200, should be changed to types with low reverse voltage.
Would it be Schottki diodes?
And that they should be placed on a heat sink for thermal stabilization tr. end points.
It means that with Darlington they can be 1N4148 and only others with single ones? Focal Elear
I am asking because I think rst of all on these TIPs because they are dirt cheap :)
Zener diodes are supposed to be selected to minimize the offset, and maybe add better
regulation already at WO (because there is no such in the diagram, and I suppose it would be
useful): Eagle Cable ALU 6
Audio Reveal The First
QNAP TS253D
A bit about this type of construction at the link:
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equipment tests
Regular meetings (e.g. on the occasion of

Audiostereo birthday)
Feszczuk once wrote about such a system in his book.
Assignment to the PREMIUM group
/
The original description was in Elektor, 1979, No. 7/8 but I can't pinpoint.
Join the PREMIUM

PCB something like this I think:
Oh, the addition of a diode as below also affects the sound plus:
Well, I am asking experts to give their opinion taking into account that I know that this is not
some outstanding / audiophile design (at least this diagram)
Is it worth it?
raven1985 Wrote October 1, 2011  # 2
This is the same concept as the Quad (
R  Hidden Content
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months
1,100 replies ) forward correction - feedforward. The output stage works here in class B and I would start
with replacing it with AB by replacing the aforementioned diodes with a standard multiplier
circuit on the transistor. The key to success will be tuning the correction to the minimum
Clubs
THD (L1, C3).
"We designed our valve (tube) ampli er, manufactured it, and put it on the market, and never
actually listened to it . In fact, the same applies to the 303 and the 405" - Peter Walker - Quad
/
M
 On 1.10.2011 at 22:35, raven1985 wrote: 
.................... The key to success will be tuning the correction to the minimum THD (L1,
C3).
Users
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So, without an oscilloscope, you can dream about proper tuning?
months
283 replies
Clubs
All you need is a good sound card in the computer :) This AB class is not necessary, but if
R you don't have anything to tune, it is better to let some electricity through these transistors.
As you think, such values as in the diagram will only work a bit worse :) I think it is worth
replacing this 741 or tl071 with something newer because their distortions are not corrected
by correction and the entire ampli er will have no better parameters than this opek :) I think
Users
 293 that for example LME49710 should t :)
months Using a 22om resistor, a potentiometer would probably also be comfortable to tune.
1,100 replies
Clubs "We designed our valve (tube) ampli er, manufactured it, and put it on the market, and never
At least, that's something.
M I'm running on linux and found a program like this:

Users
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283 replies

Clubs

/
Graph pics:
Hidden Content

screenshots /
I can see that in the third photo it is "Harmonics" :)
Is something like that?
R7 and R8 is current regulation?
And how to measure it, connect to the end collectors?
tomq88 Wrote October 1, 2011  # 6
In the book by M. Feszczuk, this arrangement looked like this ( gure on the right):
T  Hidden Content
Users
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months
976 replies

GG: 2873131
-----------------------
Clubs

Can you add emitter resistors to this circuit by converting it to kalse AB? There would be no
problem with measuring the quiescent current and I think the temperature stability would
improve.
El sueño de la razón produce monstruos.
phoros Wrote October 2, 2011  # 7
I found some professional Chinese on this topic :)
/
P
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3
months
164 replies
R
 On 1.10.2011 at 23:54, tomq88 wrote: 
Can you add emitter resistors to this circuit by converting it to kalse AB? There would
be no problem with measuring the quiescent current and I think the temperature
Users stability would improve.
 293
months You even need ~ 0.22om. The multiplier transistor should be shorted with ~ 1uF and C2
1,100 replies must be connected to VT4,3 collectors.
Clubs  On 1.10.2011 at 23:10, marusmk wrote: 
And how to measure it, connect to the end collectors?
What to measure
As for the quiescent current, you need to connect the A-meter to the collectors of the output
transistors and choose R7 and R8 so that no current ows through them.
1. Can I give larger emitter resistors (0.5 ohm)? I read (unfortunately, only read) that a higher
T value improves temperature stability at the cost of a slight power drop.
Users 2. I was always wondering about this converter between the bases of power transistors -
 149 from what I read (here also I have no practical knowledge) it "provides control of the bases of
internship: 10 years and 9 both output transistors with a signal of the same amplitude". Ie. what happens when it's not
months
there?
976 replies
GG: 2873131
3.
Clubs  On 2.10.2011 at 22:53, raven1985 wrote: 
What to measure As for the quiescent current, you need to connect the A-meter to the
collectors of the output transistors and choose R7 and R8 so that no current ows
through them.
And you can't normally measure the voltage drop across the emitter resistors and calculate
the quiescent current from Ohm's laws?
4. If the circuit I have attached here is ok, then I start putting it together (you just need to
rework the pcb a bit).
/
WitKo Wrote October 3, 2011  # 10
Hello,
W Tomq88: D7 and D6 diodes should be connected as in the rst post of this thread.
greet, wk
Users
2
months
105 replies
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Meet France's six- Chinese metal Another street Italy girls rising dance video
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piano… bands rock on dance Matchbox Check this out !!!!
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Just like now?
T
Users
 149
months
976 replies
GG: 2873131
Clubs
WitKo Wrote October 4, 2011  # 12
Sun,
W D7 should be between VT5 and VT3 (and not between VT1 and VT3)
analogously, D6 should be between VT4 and VT6

Users
2 greet, wk
/
months
105 replies
But I scored gafe, and I'm ashamed It was not about these LEDs.
T
Like now, should the connection between VT3 and VT 4 look different?
Users
 149
months
976 replies
GG: 2873131
Clubs
vik Wrote October 4, 2011  # 14
In the late 1970s I was building this type of ampli er. The whole transistor, of course. The
V trick is to ne-tune the LRC and practically the LC circuit. If you don't have an oscilloscope,
it's Russian roulette. Properly tuned plays well, but in my opinion there are better and more
"affordable" designs.
Users
 153
internship: 12 years and 11 best regards,
months
701 replies
Clubs
Well, I'm letting go, at least for now.
M I need to read something about measurements, for example using a computer.
Users
0
months
283 replies
Clubs
And this converting an entry stage into an AB class won't do the trick?
T
/
Users
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internship: 10 years and 9 The sound card will be a bottleneck for computer measurements ...
months
976 replies
GG: 2873131
Clubs
fast Gonzo Wrote October 4, 2011  # 17
S
 On 4.10.2011 at 18:43, marusmk wrote: 
Well, I'm letting go, at least for now.
I need to read something about measurements, for example using a computer.

Users
 236
internship: 10 years and 4 I didn't want to discourage you, at the beginning of the topic, but ...
months
1071 replies I made an ampli er according to the diagram below.
It was published in the Praktyczny Elektronik no. 1/98 monthly - I have this issue until today.
Clubs
Author of the RK (only that much).
The ampli er did not arouse any special recognition in me.
Yes, he did, but without nesse.
Best regards.
M
 On 4.10.2011 at 19:19, quick Gonzo wrote: 
I didn't want to discourage you, at the beginning of the topic, but ...
.........................
Users
0
internship: 12 years and 2 You should have :)
months
283 replies By the way, why does Ruthenian have a good opinion - they hear differently :)
Clubs
fast Gonzo Wrote October 4, 2011  # 19
S
 On 4.10.2011 at 19:27, marusmk wrote: 
By the way, why does Ruthenian have a good opinion - they hear differently :)
/
Users Maybe they haven't heard a little better? ;)
 236
months
1071 replies
Clubs
raven1985 Wrote October 4, 2011  #twenty
R
 On 4.10.2011 at 16:00, tomq88 wrote: 
Like now, should the connection between VT3 and VT 4 look different?
Users From what I can see it's OK now.

 293
internship: 10 years and 4 I am only concerned with what the quiescent current of the drivers should be. They "pump"
months
the current of the output bases, which can be of the order of tens or even hundreds of mA at
1,100 replies
the beta drop of the output transistors plus the correction current which can also be a large
part of the load current. It would be nice if it worked in class A ~ some 100mA should touch,
Clubs but the driver's transistors must then have a large heat sink.
 On 4.10.2011 at 18:04, vik wrote: 
Properly tuned plays well, but in my opinion there are better and more "affordable"
designs.
Due to this tuning, nobody uses this solution anymore, although in the 70-80 it was very
popular.
(Sansui, Yamaha, Denon, Technics ..)
 On 4.10.2011 at 18:47, tomq88 wrote: 
And this converting an entry stage into an AB class won't do the trick?
It will improve but not quite do it. The equalization tuning is more important for the low
frequencies, for the higher frequencies things like an increase in the impedance of the
control stage will start to appear ... which will start to blow the balance.
I didn't want to discourage you, at the beginning of the topic, but ...
I made an ampli er according to the diagram below.
It was published in the Praktyczny Elektronik no. 1/98 monthly - I have this issue until
today.
Author of the RK (only that much).
The ampli er did not arouse any special recognition in me.
Yes, he did, but without nesse.
But what does gingerbread have for a windmill? It's a different ampli er, after all.
I am not surprised how you had this fuse on the output :)
/
T
 On 4.10.2011 at 20:18, raven1985 wrote: 
From what I can see it's OK now.
I am only concerned with what the quiescent current of the drivers should be. They
Users
 149 "pump" the current of the output bases, which can be of the order of tens or even
internship: 10 years and 9 hundreds of mA at the beta drop of the output transistors plus the correction current
months which can also be a large part of the load current. It would be nice if it worked in class A
976 replies ~ some 100mA should touch, but the driver's transistors must then have a large heat
GG: 2873131
sink.
Clubs
And these Bd 139/140 will be enough, is it better to give something more durable? If so
what?
 Quotation
It will improve but not quite do it. The equalization tuning is more important for the low
frequencies, for the higher frequencies things like an increase in the impedance of the
control stage will start to appear ... which will start to blow the balance.
Well, I do not know if the disadvantages of this ampli er outclass it compared to others, or
whether it has its advantages and disadvantages, like everyone else. There is nothing else for
me to check it myself. First, assemble one tip, and if it's okay, I'll make a stereo set. Most of
the elements I have anyway, so if anything, the loss will be small.
assertive Wrote October 4, 2011  # 22
Why bother with this poor layout. Instead, I would recommend what Piotr Gorecki found:
A  Hidden Content
Users
 15
days
379 replies Of course, you only need to modify the power supply to a typical one as in conventional
ampli ers.
R
But that's funny professor.
The windmill grinds the our into gingerbread.

Users
 293
internship: 10 years and 4 Did I write something wrong? After all, you pasted a diagram that is only similar but not
months
having much in common with the theme layout.
1,100 replies
 On 4.10.2011 at 21:25, tomq88 wrote: 

Clubs
And these Bd 139/140 will be enough, is it better to give something more durable? If so
what?
/
Oh gosh !. After all, these TIPs are darligtons, I just looked at the diagram and they are drawn
there as usual. My above writing about the base current of the output transistors is out of
date. But it is good if several dozen mA will ow there. They will do.
 On 2.10.2011 at 23:24, tomq88 wrote: 
1. Can I give larger emitter resistors (0.5 ohm)? I read (unfortunately, only read) that the
higher value improves temperature stability at the cost of a slight power drop.
Yes, but at the cost of higher output resistance which is approximately ~ 0.5 * (Re + 0.025 /
Ie)
Here it is enough to let even a single mA of current through the output transistors. These
resistors can be 0.1 or top 0.22 ohms.
 On 2.10.2011 at 23:24, tomq88 wrote: 
2. I was always wondering about this converter between the bases of power transistors
- from what I read (here also I have no practical knowledge) it "provides control of the
bases of both output transistors with a signal of the same amplitude". Ie. what happens
when it's not there?
It is necessary to short-circuit the bias circuit with a capacitor because its impedance
increases with frequency.
 On 4.10.2011 at 21:25, tomq88 wrote: 
Well, I do not know if the disadvantages of this ampli er outclass it compared to others,
or whether it has its advantages and disadvantages, like everyone else. There is nothing
else for me to check it myself. First, assemble one tip, and if it's okay, I'll make a stereo
set. Most of the elements I have anyway, so if anything, the loss will be small.
Everything has advantages and disadvantages. The advantage of the forward correction is
that there are no loops and therefore no stability problems that have to be dealt with with
global feedback. The defect must be tuned.
 On 4.10.2011 at 22:12, assertive wrote: 
Why bother with this poor layout. Instead, I would recommend what Piotr Gorecki
found:
Hidden Content

Of course, you only need to modify the power supply to a typical one as in conventional
ampli ers.
But gentlemen, it's a completely different concept!
This ampli er will have low power due to the + -15V OP-amp power limitation.
/
Full description is here:
A  Hidden Content
Users
 15
days
379 replies

 On 4.10.2011 at 22:15, raven1985 wrote: 
But gentlemen, it's a completely different concept!
But much better in my opinion.
 On 4.10.2011 at 22:15, raven1985 wrote: 
This ampli er will have low power due to the + -15V OP-amp power limitation.
To increase the power, you can expand the power level, e.g. with x2 ampli cation.
R
But much better in my opinion.
Users In the thematic ampli er there is a forward correction in the Mr. Piotr ampli er the traditional
 293
global feedback. What is better ? There is no simple answer to this question.
months
The theme circuit is interesting, there is nothing interesting in Mr. Piotr's ampli er.
1,100 replies
Clubs
Such a solution is so much better that it can have two feedback loops, and the power stage
A with the gain x2 - 3 may be stable without compensation. It should be checked !!
Users Well, the analogs would result from TIM almost none.
 15
days
379 replies
T
 Quotation
Oh gosh !. After all, these TIPs are darligtons, I just looked at the diagram and they are
drawn there as usual. My above writing about the base current of the output transistors
is out of date. But it is good if several dozen mA will ow there. They will do.
Users
 149
months
976 replies /
GG: 2873131 Heh, I also thought it was a single bipolar. Does it make sense to change it under MJE3055 /
2955? Of course, with a slightly higher quiescent current. Although these TIPs are not
Clubs expensive, so maybe there is no point in having fun (I just have MJE, and I have to buy tips;))
Assertive, the concept you are talking about is akin to
Hidden Content

(picture on the left).
Only here is probably the gain in the output stage 10V / V
R
To increase the power, you can expand the power level, e.g. with x2 ampli cation.
Users So to build a new ampli er. Which will not be so simple anymore.
 293
months  On 4.10.2011 at 22:33, assertive wrote: 
1,100 replies
Such a solution is so much better that it can have two feedback loops, and the power
stage with the gain x2 - 3 may be stable without compensation. It should be checked !!
Clubs
Exactly. The output stage with a local large nfb will be inside the nfb loop of a fast op amp - it
will not be easy to stabilize it, and most importantly, guarantee stability under all conditions
and under any load.
 On 4.10.2011 at 22:39, tomq88 wrote: 
Heh, I also thought it was a single bipolar. Does it make sense to change it under
MJE3055 / 2955? Of course, with a slightly higher quiescent current. Although these
TIPs are not expensive, so maybe it makes no sense to have fun (I just have MJE, I have
a good number;))
Does not make sense.
A
 On 4.10.2011 at 22:41, raven1985 wrote: 
Exactly. The output stage with a local large nfb will be inside the nfb loop of a fast op
amp - it will not be easy to stabilize it, and most importantly, guarantee stability under
Users all conditions and under any load.
 15
days I did not write it too emphatically because I thought it was obvious. Well, the operational
379 replies ampli er would have its own feedback loop, and the power stage with a very low gain with its
own loop. It was probably even faster than Gorecki achieved !!!
/

Well, but there are those who are afraid of "fast driving".
assertive Wrote October 5, 2011  #thirty
A
 On 4.10.2011 at 22:39, tomq88 wrote: 
Assertive, the concept you are talking about is akin to

Users
 15
internship: 10 years and 4 Hidden Content
days 
379 replies
(picture on the left).
Only here is probably the gain in the output stage 10V / V
Only in this solution, apart from the local power stage coupling, the whole thing is tightened
by the coupling anyway. On the other hand, AD817, and even better AD818 with a gain of e.g.
20dB, does not require compensation and at min. 50mA output current, you can use fewer
transistors in the power stage (especially with HEXFET) and connected with a local loop
giving 6-10dB gain without compensation, it can give a good acceleration. And of course, it
will signi cantly reduce TIM.
And the AD power supply can be increased to +/- 18V, which also gives us additional bene ts
!!
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 The topic has been moved to the archive

G. Schmidt "Currenl dumping ampli er"

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Shoppster omogućava malim proizvođačima

marusmk Wrote October 1, 2011  # 1

There is a structure like in the title with the diagram below:

In the east I found a little more.

The diagram after the changes that I found is as follows:

Would it be Schottki diodes?

Audio Reveal The First

Hidden Content PREMIUM ACCOUNT

Free Promoted Ads

Access to additional articles and

Regular meetings (e.g. on the occasion of

PCB something like this I think:

raven1985 Wrote October 1, 2011  # 2

This is the same concept as the Quad (

raven1985 Wrote October 1, 2011  # 4

marusmk Wrote October 1, 2011  # 5

At least, that's something.

M I'm running on linux and found a program like this:

Log in to view the content (possible login with  )

Log in to view the content (possible login with  )

I can see that in the third photo it is "Harmonics" :)

Is something like that?

R7 and R8 is current regulation?

And how to measure it, connect to the end collectors?

tomq88 Wrote October 1, 2011  # 6

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos.

phoros Wrote October 2, 2011  # 7

I found some professional Chinese on this topic :)

Users Log in to view the content (possible login with  )

raven1985 Wrote October 2, 2011  # 8

Clubs  On 1.10.2011 at 23:10, marusmk wrote: 

And how to measure it, connect to the end collectors?

tomq88 Wrote October 2, 2011  # 9

T value improves temperature stability at the cost of a slight power drop.

Clubs  On 2.10.2011 at 22:53, raven1985 wrote: 

WitKo Wrote October 3, 2011  # 10

A rare talent: Train station

Powered by FireworkPowered by Firework

tomq88 Wrote October 3, 2011  # 11

Just like now?

WitKo Wrote October 4, 2011  # 12

analogously, D6 should be between VT4 and VT6

tomq88 Wrote October 4, 2011  # 13

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos.

vik Wrote October 4, 2011  # 14

marusmk Wrote October 4, 2011  # 15

Well, I'm letting go, at least for now.

M I need to read something about measurements, for example using a computer.

tomq88 Wrote October 4, 2011  # 16

fast Gonzo Wrote October 4, 2011  # 17

Well, I'm letting go, at least for now.

I need to read something about measurements, for example using a computer.

The ampli er did not arouse any special recognition in me.

Yes, he did, but without nesse.

marusmk Wrote October 4, 2011  # 18

fast Gonzo Wrote October 4, 2011  # 19

raven1985 Wrote October 4, 2011  #twenty

Users From what I can see it's OK now.

 On 4.10.2011 at 18:04, vik wrote: 