Air Date: 12/4/20

The Root Presents: It’s Lit!

Ep. 11 - Michaela Angela Davis on The Meaning of Mariah Carey
Danielle ​Welcome to It's Lit, where all things literary live at The Root. I'm Danielle Belton,
The Root's editor in chief here with the managing editor of The Glow Up, Maiysha Kai.

Maiysha ​Hey, y'all.

Danielle ​Today we're talking to author, activist and fashion legend Michaela Angela Davis.
Michaela is the coauthor of Mariah Carey's new memoir, The Meaning of Mariah Carey,
which debuted at the top of the New York Times bestseller list in October. Prior to
becoming a New York Times best selling author, Michaela served as the founding fashion
director for Vibe magazine, editor in chief of Honey Magazine, executive fashion and
beauty editor at Essence magazine. She has also been recognized as a Phenomenal
Woman by the New York Chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of
Colored People, and has been honored with the Trailblazer Award by the president of the
Borough of Manhattan.

Maiysha ​You know, phenomenal woman is right because Michaela is truly a legend in her
own right. And what she's done to bring Black beauty and culture to the forefront is
incredible. I actually have known her for, I think 20 years now. I met her when I was just
starting out in the industry and she has been an inspiration and a mentor to many. And I
think she was such a natural to tell Mariah's story as well. So the fact that they made this
organic connection and made this really successful book I think is is kind of it's the magic
of Christmas, I think. What do you think, Danielle?

Danielle ​I think it's amazing. It's like you have two icons coming together, Michaela, who is
an icon of Black lady journalism. And.

Maiysha ​Absolutely.

Danielle ​She's an icon. Mariah's an icon. You know, like Michaela, you know, is a legend
in terms of the Black journalistic circles. And Mariah Carey is Mariah Carey like she needs
no introduction.

Maiysha ​Yeah, absolutely. And they're both blondes. I love that. Blonde Black girls for the
win.

Danielle ​Exactly. You know, we could probably talk all day about Michaela, but instead, I
think we should let the listeners hear for themselves. What do you think?

Maiysha ​I think they're going to love it. They're going to love it. Let's get to it.

Danielle ​Awesome

Danielle ​Hey, Michaela.

Michaela Angela Davis ​Hi.

Danielle ​Welcome to It's Lit.

Michaela Angela Davis ​Aw.

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Danielle ​I feel like we're welcoming an old friend because you are such a well established
entity in Black media. And it's so exciting to have you join us.

Michaela Angela Davis ​I'm so happy to be, like, you don't know. I'm so happy to be
anywhere these days, but particularly here with you and around this moment, like it's a
moment.

Danielle ​Yes, this is—.

Maiysha ​It is a moment.

Danielle ​And we're going to have many a moments during our chat. We're going to start
off with the same moment, we start off for all our chats, where we ask all our authors about
what book for them—and it can be a book or books—that was a game-changer,
life-altering, blew your mind. What book was that for you?

Michaela Angela Davis ​There are several, but what came to the top of my mind was the
Assata autobiography. Because I was so young when I read it and I re—and I just didn't
know that people had, and that women and Black women had lives that were so dynamic
and dangerous and transformational. And in terms of fiction, probably Song of Solomon
probably, I don't know, like but that's just what came to me, because I just remember the
moment and who I was while I was reading it, I was that idealistic teenager. And I thought
Assata was like the most revolutionary person I'd ever heard. And there was something
about her that felt urgent and relevant. And now. So, yeah, but there's so many.

Danielle ​Oh yeah.

Michaela Angela Davis ​That's that's the answer today. We talk tomorrow, there's going to
be a whole another one.

Danielle ​Now that, books, like my favorite things change with my mood. So I totally get it. I
totally get it. But Michaela you have an incredible list of accomplishments under your belt,
including being the founding fashion editor at Vibe magazine. I grew up reading and loving.
I used to like cut out the covers and the advertisements and put them on my wall. Like I
was—

Michaela Angela Davis ​That was that was a goal. I would literally say that in. a meeting.

Danielle ​You succeeded.

Michaela Angela Davis ​Yes, OK, good.

Danielle ​Old fashioned pictures. I was cutting them out and I was putting them in art. I was
making collages. So you succeeded, girl. And you were also the executive beauty and
fashion editor Essence, another magazine that I grew up reading as well and love dearly to
this day.

Maiysha ​That's right.

Danielle ​It's the Bible, it's like right next to it. And of course, you were editor in chief of the
much beloved Honey magazine. You're also an acclaimed stylist, fashion activist, a former

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CNN pundit. I mean, you've worked with some of the biggest names in entertainment,
fashion and media. I could go on and. on and on, but what I'm most excited to talk to you
about and why you are here today is that you're the coauthor of Mariah Carey's memoir,
The Meaning of Mariah Carey, which was both critically acclaimed and an instant New
York Times bestseller. Congratulations girl.

Michaela Angela Davis ​Thank you, that's the first time I've heard that term come out of
someone else's mouth. Aside from mine. Being the instant number-one New York Times
best seller and for it to come out of a Black woman's mouth, just gave me chills.

Maiysha ​Oh we were giddy.

Michaela Angela Davis ​Because, you know. You know what? Because I mean, that's
that's a thing, when you enter the list at number one, like, I acknowledge that that's a thing
no matter what's going on in the world that most people enter incline. Right. So there's
that. But the week that we became number one or the week that we entered, it was the
most competitive because of what was going on in the world. It was Bob Woodward's book
Rage. Mary Trump's book, Michael Cohen. It was the week that the White House got the
'rona right. And even before that, it was just wall to wall Trump and Washington books that
had a stronghold. And Isabel Wilkerson's Caste was in there and it was climbing, but it
wasn't even getting above Rage. So Mariah and I literally were like talking to ourselves, to
each other and going, "you know, we did a good job, you know, whether we make it or not,
we're proud of the work. You know, maybe we'll get on later and climb because, you know,
it's Christmas," and because we trusted the book was an actual book and not a trend for
that week. We trusted that it could be the kind of book that would enter after the holiday or
after the election or something like we literally just didn't have any expectation to even get
on the list that week. So when you know, what happens is when you make the list, the
desk at The New York Times contacts your publisher and editor and then they give you a
call by two or three hours later, it's published. So Mariah was in rehearsals or something,
and I was back in Sedona and we got the call and we literally just screamed for a good 15
minutes. And that girl, you know, she isn't supposed to scream when she's recording. And.

Maiysha ​I'm like, vocal rest.

Michaela Angela Davis ​The feels were bigger than, you know, who could tell her, like,
watch your voice? But so we were, it was such a genuine triumph, you know, because,
listen, even if, I mean, it's kind of illustrated in the book, even at Mariah's level now, she
and I—we were still underestimating, like, like underestimating. There was not an
expectation from—I mean, the publishers knew the book was good. They were very, Andy,
when he first started reading it—Andy Cohen, it's on his imprint—was very impressed with
the writing when we when I first started kind of turning in chapters. But there wasn't this
expectation that we were going to be a number one bestseller. 'Cause you know, people
act a certain way when they expect you to win in a big way. They weren't acting that way.
So it was, again, just a validation for her, her story, the layers of a life, because we always
identified this as a memoir of her identity, like it had to have a very specific lens in how we
were going to tell this story. And so it still is moving to hear what it did. And that literally
looked, when we looked at the list and they have the photos of the little thumbnails of the
covers and that we were like literally sitting on top of Rage. So it was like "Meaning" sitting
on top of "Rage". And this woman of color, like with her hair blowing, is sitting on top of
that face of Trump. Like, so the metaphor of us climbing over that chatter that, the
consumption that this administration has had on our lives, like the complete stealing of our
imagination for so long for us to just for that week to just. On top of it was it was a triumph

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and that that means everything, and once you get that number one thing, that's it. You
have it forever. Like it's always going to be that, you know, like no one can, you can't take
that, you know.

Maiysha ​It's so interesting.

Danielle ​It's fitting,.

Maiysha ​I mean Mariah is used to having number ones but you're right, this is a new
genre. She's literally put out an album called The Number Ones.

Danielle ​Number one albums, number one book now.

Michaela Angela Davis ​Yeah. And then this is different, you know, like to actually own
your own narrative, and to tell your story for someone who's been so written about and
talked about and, you know, interviewed about and mused about, it's different. She's so
confident as a songwriter and a singer and a producer like in the studio, she's a beast.
Like it's not. But this is different. This is so revealing. This is, there's lots of, you know,
childhood memories and trauma that have never been discussed before. Some she'd
forgotten because, you know, that's often how we survive as children or as humans.
Something can be so traumatic that we just block it out and are not ready to deal with it.
And there were a couple of instances in this book that she was remembering in real time.

Maiysha ​You know, that was actually one of the reasons I was so excited you were
writing, that you were co-writing this book with her, you know, having watched you over the
years. And I think, you know, I think I first met you, I want to say around nineteen
ninety-eight when I was just breaking into, like, the fashion and music industries. And so,
you know, so much of this book also takes us back to that era. And that was so exciting
and fun for me. But, you know, the work that you've done in the years since is so much
about kind of excavating these narratives of Black women in general. And, you know, one
of Mariah's most famous quips is, "I don't know her," you know, but when you're even if
you are not a person who's followed her career like that, you're not a member of Lambily
per se. You know, you close this book really feeling like you do know her better. And I felt
that you were somehow instrumental in that. So, like, you know, legend has it that you, this
started this relationship between you two started when you lobbied to get her on the cover
of Essence in April of 2005. And by the way, shout out to all the Aries in the house, myself
included, because I did not know Mariah was an Aries until this book. And I was like, yes,
but how did that, how did that early meeting, like 15 years ago lead to you becoming her
partner on this project?

Michaela Angela Davis ​Well, you know, it was...This story is like it's filled with a trail of
Black women. Right, because Marvet Britto was her publicist at the time. Marvet called
me, invited me to what I thought was a listening party for The Emancipation. You know,
and we all know what those industry listening parties are like. All this press comes and you
listen, we have some cocktails and some wieners and that's it. But I get to this, to this, it
was The Hit Factory and no one was there. I thought I was just being, you know, a geek or
maybe I got the time wrong or whatever. And L.A. Reid was sitting at a console, just him
among flowers and candles. And he's a perfectionist. And he just started playing tracks. I
was like, what is going on? And it was Emancipation. So it was like, "We Belong Together"
and "Joy Ride" like all of them.

Maiysha ​I love that album. Yeah.

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Michaela Angela Davis ​Oh, my God. It was like it was crazy. And so, and I was a fan, but
I wasn't a Lamb either. I just I thought Butterfly was the main thing. I'd loved some of her
other work, of course, but I wasn't like, but this album where the songs were just bangers
one after the other. And then when he played "Fly Like a Bird," I was like, OK, this is the
song that I can go into Essence and say, this is a Black woman's album. Right. But also it
was called Emancipation because I was challenged because Mariah had never been on
the cover of Essence. I don't think she's ever really been covered that much in general.
There was this narrative, not just in Essence, but I think in the collective imagination, that
she did not identify as Black. And so with an album called Emancipation and then having
these very Black songs, even though I contend musically, she's always been very, very
Black. but um, so I go into the office and I literally say to the editor in chief, I'm not leaving
until you agree to put her on the cover like this is the one. But then Joan Morgan was the
writer and I asked Joan, would she do it? And she came in with all this research of
interviews and clips where Mariah said she was Black, like it was like making a case, like it
was she was a lawyer in a way, saying, look, this is, it's just, like those things that people
don't want to hear because they want to have this conversation about you. And also one of
our internal mantras, because, like, that's why we wrote a whole-ass book, like there's so
many stories that need a lot of context around why the narrative existed and who was able
to frame her story for her. So back to when after her "Fly Like a Bird," I went out into the
hallway, called my editor. This is an amazing album. When I walked back in the studio
Mariah was standing there. And there was this instant physical recognition, right. Like I'm
this big blonde Black girl and we begin to talk and she's very funny and very warm, very
glamorous. And then we like she's like, "want to listen to the rest of the album in the car?"
So we bump the album in the car, go downtown, then we end up at some restaurant eating
lots of grilled Brazilian meat and I end up in the Moroccan room and I'm there until dawn.
And she's telling me just her story and her family. And that was it. Like we, it was a trust.
She trusted that I would understand the complexity of her family and her makeup. And so I
think that was it. Then we kind of sealed this friendship and the trust in identity and you
know over those 10 years, basically, we, you know, we were friendly, we're friends. If she
had to do any remarks, like when she met Mandela, she would ask me, like "could you
look over this?" Little stuff like that. Yeah. So but she, to her credit, she was not willing to
do this book with anyone else. She was like, if you want a book out of me, I'm going to do
it with her. Because you probably know this many Black celebrities who coauthored with
other people. Sometimes it's very ghosted and often they're not other people of color.
They're often not other Black women writing stories about Black women. And a lot of that
is how the publishing houses, they have their crew of known writers and they crank out
books. And Mariah wanted to emancipate the little girl in her. That was our first day when I
asked her, like, why do you want to write this book? And she said, "to emancipate the little
girl in me." And from that I knew I could do it because it was going to be an investment of
time. I didn't know was going to pack up my whole life. But there is a little child inside of
everyone. You know, it became a universal, almost spiritual thing that this was something
that everyone could relate to. There are children inside of adults who don't have a voice or
have been voiceless or who have lived through something, and that this would be a
testimony to that child and that and the ability for all of us to emancipate and care for a
child that might not have been cared for by her family or parents or industry.

Danielle ​That is so, so beautiful and powerful. You know, as journalists, Michaela, we're
often tasked with translating others' words and feelings to the page. But a memoir is an
entirely different undertaking from a craft perspective. What tools did you use to help
translate an icon like Mariah Carey to the page? And how did that process unfold?

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Michaela Angela Davis ​So first firstly, I don't identify as a journalist because I know the
skill, the education, the craft of what that is, and I am not that. And so I really want to
respect the actual journalists. And our process was, it was very intimate, meaning it was
just the two of us for pretty much the whole process until I got to the first draft and we
would have conversations that I would record and then transcribe. She is a brilliant
storyteller. However, before I got started, before I really got started, because I was
panicked around structure. I was panicked around, like, how do you, basically how do you
craft this narrative? Particularly because I knew what kind of storyteller she is. She's she's
great in person because she goes on these tangents and you go you literally go on a
joyride with her on a story. And it's great, but that's different than the page. So I started
going back to look at her actual writing, which was her lyrics. So I was looking at pure
lyrics of songs devoid of melody, so I could just look at her words and her structure and
she's got a great vocabulary and that became kind of like the framework of how I would
structure this book. I wanted the book to feel like like a like an opus, like a long Mariah
album. Right. And so that I began sort of studying the structure, her writing. And then
there's just magic, then there's just you you put down the stories and you start to see the
narrative framework appear and you then you kind of go in and shine it up and line it up a
little bit better. But, you know, I was working with a prolific writer to start.

Maiysha ​Yeah.

Michaela Angela Davis ​It was just like the stories we just filled out her lyrics. And that's
why there's some lyrics woven in throughout the story to kind of prove not just that this was
her life, but but she's a really prolific songwriter.

Danielle ​Now, obviously, the world knows her as a diva. She happily claims that title, even
if she didn't, you know, like, I would give it to her like she's everything. Like a lot of great
artists, you know, much of her story is grounded in some pretty serious trauma, including
emotional and physical abuse, really intimate betrayals and ultimately a mental health
crisis. Even though Mariah seems larger than life, I think a lot of us can relate. But since
she's so often been misunderstood, did you feel like you had to find a sweet spot in the
storytelling lest her narrative risk being dismissed as, and I totally hate this phrase term but
it's a term, like a tragic mulatto tale?

Michaela Angela Davis ​Yeah. Listen, that term like we have...one of the great things
about working with Mariah is her very, very astute sense of humor. So we have also made
a lot of jokes between two of us. And the thing is, like we get to say that, right? Like that's
we have permission to have a plethora of mulatto jokes because of the life. Right. So we
were very careful that, you know, that was a very real consideration, you know, that it's not
like, "oh, poor me," even her songwriting, you know, there's a song where she's like, I'm
aware of all I have. I know what this is. But that's how do you tell that the story? How do
you emancipate that child? How do you honor the truth without without doing that? Right.
Without creating this like the poor princess kind of. And the answer was, you have to tell
the real truth. You have to tell the whole truth. Because, I mean, what comes off as that
tragic, you know, the tragic mulatto is just the...is when you just touch the surface of
"nobody understood me," or "they treated me like this." Like, if you just if you don't go all
the way in, that's how it feels. That's how it's received. Like, OK, all right. But you're like in
a mansion and dripping in, you know whatever. So it was really incumbent upon us to tell,
like to go in, like to go to the dark places and really talk about what happened. And it's not
easy. Most people don't want to do that. They don't want to go all the way in and excavate
all of it. But we talk about, we joked about it. But it was actually one of the ways that we
dealt with some of the more difficult stories. How we survived them was like we would

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come out and have a joke. You know what I mean? Like we would have to, like, get out of
it. Because one of the things that was so profound in this process with her, she would go
there. Like you could feel that she was emotionally in that shack, like she was there. She
was in that car with that pimp. She was like she would go there and I could physically see
her change and chemically feel her fear. And it took a lot of courage. And so I think when
you tell the truth, you you are free from that kind of criticism.

Maiysha ​Yeah.

Michaela Angela Davis ​If you're trying to be careful. Don't do it. Like, either tell the whole
story, or don't do it.

Danielle ​Agreed.

Maiysha ​Yeah, I agree. And I, I, I also hate that term. But, you know, I do love that you
went there because you know, amazingly to me, in the last year, we've seen people who I
can't remember when this was. Maybe it was when "All I Want for Christmas is You," went
to number one again, right, last year, which it probably will again this year. They were
singing it after the election. And which was great. I thought that was so cool that like they
were singing "All I want for Christmas is You," all we wanted for Christmas is a new
president. But there were still people who did not know. There were people who didn't
know Mariah Carey was biracial. Right. That was crazy. I was like, how do you not know
that? Because we know we'll be like, oh, no, we knew. We always knew. I love how she's
tied in with this year's election as well, to be honest.

Michaela Angela Davis ​I know. You know I thought on Caution with GTFO, when I first
heard that, I was like, "yo, that is the song for the campaign." Like, how about you just get
the F out? Like, just go. Take your team on your merry way.

Maiysha ​We have a whole silo at The Root right now for that. We do. What is it? Is it
GTFOH Watch?

Danielle ​Yeah.

Maiysha ​Yeah.

Danielle ​Trump Watch.

Maiysha ​Trump Watch

Danielle ​Get out. We're just watching to see when he leaves.

Michaela Angela Davis ​Just go. And there's like that, because even though she did that
great she unearthed "Save the Day," which is a song that she did in 2011, which, you
know, it's great, it was the anthem. It's feel good. I'm like to me the song is that one.
GTFO, like get out of here, like. So, so...

Maiysha ​Yes.

Michaela Angela Davis ​She gives us a song for all the—.

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Danielle ​There's a song for, there's a Mariah Carey song for everything. Like for every
mood, every situation...

Michaela Angela Davis ​Everything. Obsessed...Everything.

Maiysha ​I am I've been known to say to people, why are you so obsessed with me? Like,
why?

Danielle ​That that is my jam. I probably bumped it like a couple of days ago. I love that
song so much. I love its vocabulary.

Maiysha ​Yeah I'm like, why am I stressing you out?

Danielle ​I like everything about it.

Michaela Angela Davis ​You know, that's the thing. I think what, what also was so
interesting in writing and this even before I started writing this book and I say I wasn't a
Lamb, but I was frustrated that the world at large. But the academy, the press never talked
about Mariah in the critical way that she deserved as a musician, as a songwriter, as a
producer. Right. And so that, I was, that was a goal for me in a way to be like if I were a
man and had written all those hits, like we would all know exactly like, you know, we would
know, like and it wouldn't have taken this long to get into the Songwriter's Hall of Fame.
Like how many hits do you have to make? How many number one's do you have to do?
Like how many records does one have to break? And so that was a real goal of mine
because there's also something about a book that is in a different, the different industry.
It's a different sensibility than music. Right. Like you're not so fixated on the vision. It's the
story. It's the narrative. And so we had this ability to strip away all that. I mean, we've got
three decades of, like, history of what people think she is and what she looks like and all
the dresses and all the skin she's shown and all that stuff to work against. But when writing
a story, you get to strip away from that and just put out a narrative and people get to enter
her through another portal that doesn't have the same baggage. And that was exciting for
me, because even when you're doing an article for Essence, or Rolling Stone or Billboard
or whatever, you're still driven by the music industry structure of a singer. And I mean, you
know what that is? If you're a woman, it's amazing that she survived. If she, you know she
contends that if she didn't have agency over her own music, maybe she wouldn't have I
mean. Like it has destroyed women. You know, it has destroyed people, but particularly
women and particularly women of color. And, you know, we had a very profound moment
in the process when Prince transitioned because that was the last of what she considered
her contemporaries. Like there are very few people that were in the air of where Mariah
was. It was Whitney, Michael Jackson and Prince. I mean, people of color, like Elton John
you know, there's white people up there. But it was like I'm the last one alive to tell my
story. Everyone else, people are telling stories about Michael Jackson, about Whitney
Houston, about Prince, but they didn't live to tell it. And Prince was in the process. And
part of Prince's process was he really wanted to talk about his childhood and music. And
so it was just so it was an incredibly profound moment. And thinking about all the other
women who don't write their own material. And how do you survive that? She didn't have
to...She was the hitmaker. She was the one that was writing the song.

Maiysha ​They called her the franchise, right? That's what they called her at the label? The
franchise?

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Michaela Angela Davis ​Yeah, the franchise. And then she was hipper, like she knew who
Mobb Deep was. She knew that ODB would be amazing. She knew that Busta, like that
was her. And that she's also never been really celebrated by hip hop community. She put
so many people on. She got so many people on it, like in that crossover space just by
being on her record. So that was a big, big motivation of mine. Like, she needs her
recognition. Like y'all need to recognize don't get, you're so distracted by the hair in the
boobs that you don't see the work.

Maiysha ​I love that you say that. You know, it's so interesting because obviously that was
a huge I did not expect to relate to this as much as I did. You know, like Mariah is a diva.
She's an icon. But as a former recording artist and a singer-songwriter, what you just said
about women of color in the industry and the survival mechanisms that we have to put in
place, like I mean, I think the word is triggering. It's true, it's so true. And, you know, and
you do such a great job of helping to really get her story out there in such a sensitive and
compassionate, but still really funny and endearing way. Like I walked away from this
book, like I would hug Mariah Carey if she would let me. Like, I love her. She'd be like, "I
don't know her," but that's fine. But you've helped tell Mariah's story.

Michaela Angela Davis ​She's very real though. Like...

Maiysha ​She seemed real in this book.

Michaela Angela Davis ​She's really real. And she's so funny and. I mean, it's...

Maiysha ​I mean, I love that she seems to have a self-awareness about herself in a self
deprecating kind of sense of humor about it, I mean, not the deprecating part. I mean, I
think we all have some element of that. But, you know, before, you know, I don't want to
you know, I love that you helped her tell her story, but I think we also need to talk about
your story, because to me, as somebody who's watched you over the last couple of
decades, you really embody what it means to be a fully realized creative. And I've always
admired your ability to pivot and find bridges between these kinds of parallel industries.
And I think that's really both unique and aspirational for a lot of people. And I wanted to
give you a kind of, I want to take a moment to kind of talk about that, because like like
Mariah and me, you actually started out as a performer, correct? Like you were an actress,
I believe. And a dancer. Right? So did you envision expanding into these different creative
mediums? And what advice would you give to those, you know, your mentor, your mom?
What advice would you give to those seeking a creative life?

Michaela Angela Davis ​You know, so interesting that you say that that you bring that up,
because when I was younger, I didn't think that I was going to do anything else but be an
actress. So I went to Duke Ellington School of the Arts in D.C. and I was so beautifully
prepared because of the education that I got, because of the trust and the love that was
poured into me by my teachers, by my community. I really didn't think I would be anything
other than an actress and an artist. However, also growing up in Washington, D.C., when it
was Chocolate City, that environment also activated me in a way that I mean politics and
the notion of black liberation was kind of in our, in our blood. So I always had a parallel
kind of relationship with politics. And, you know, being a Black artist is political. Being a
Black woman is political. And so when I got to New York to train and went to school and I
was also very involved in fashion, I guess the point is, is that there are several passion
points in me. And I was courageous or crazy enough to try to pursue them when they
when they urged at me, you know? And particularly as a child, you think about the things
that consumed you. Like what were they? Was it food or was it art? Was it science? Like

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these things that are kind of embedded in you that you approach, that you're kind of wired
up to have? And I really kind of I really want to attribute this to my education at Duke
Ellington that I was told as a young person that that is valid, that thing that is urging you,
that is real, and that passion thing can become what you do and who you are. So if it's
politics and fashion and theater, I wasn't told to choose one. So the fact that at different
times in my career, different parts of this thing was coming up. And now being a grown
woman, there are kind of all working together. My love for joy, my love for justice. My love
for style and Black women. And centering Black women. I think also what was really
important in this was a great piece of advice from my mentor, Susan Taylor. Susan taught
me how to be an editor. She at Essence loved her audience, you know, and the business.
And you could tell because she was a beast. She taught me to love Black women first.
And then no matter what I do, whether it's a magazine or a show or a podcast or whatever,
that's that's my that's my centering. My orientation is to serve Black women and girls.
Right. And then everyone else comes along. But that's my that's the core. And so when
you know who you're serving and, you know, to trust those urgings and those passions
inside you as real things and they keep coming, that's the good part. Like even, I'm in my
50s, my daughter's about to turn 30 years old. New ones are still coming, you know, and
they will continue as long as I expect them, you know, and I really recommend giving
yourself time to feel those yearnings that I'm talking about. But to understand them as real
yearnings and real information that's coming to you from a very sort of higher place. Yeah,
and I'm excited about what's ahead. Like, I'm just so ready for people to, like, get it
together so we can get on it so the world can come back and we can get to work. And this
election, I think, finally made it clear how dope, like how Black women will save you. And
that we want our thanks. Like—

Danielle ​Yes.

Michaela Angela Davis ​We OK, we're done now, we're done now doing all the labor and
not getting our thanks. So I'm ready for, like, madam vice president, get in there and all of
us who are doing things to go get our bags, get our car, like get it. Like I get it.

Danielle ​Yeah.

Michaela Angela Davis ​This is look, it's time to get it, right?

Danielle ​I completely agree.

Maiysha ​Absolutely.

Danielle ​Completely agree. You know, Michaela, like you talked about putting Black
women first and serving Black women. And I don't want to speak on behalf of both
Maiysha and myself, but I'm going to right now, we are two Black women who feel like you
have definitely served us.

Maiysha ​Absolutely.

Danielle ​You've been inspirational. You have been influential. You've been instrumental all
the "I"s.

Maiysha ​I told Michaela, the last time I saw I was like, "you don't know this, but you're my
mentor." And she laughed. And I was like, "But that's true though.".

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Danielle ​You're in our spirit.

Michaela Angela Davis ​I'll take that, I'll take that. I mean, listen, it is it is the honor and
privilege of my life. You know, where else will I want to be?

Danielle ​Same.

Michaela Angela Davis ​Who else would I want to be, right? Like, how dope are we? And
finally, like I've always known and believed it, and if it's just taking everybody else, you
know, whatever, you know. We'll let you in, you may be late at the party but we'll let you in.
But what I love now is...

Maiysha ​Just scooch to the backseat.

Michaela Angela Davis ​—sacrificial, you know what I mean? Like, we don't have to labor
with no rewards anymore.

Danielle ​Yes, that's correct.

Michaela Angela Davis ​We get to...That's what's exciting about this time, is this
generation and your generation and the generation behind you, like we're filling in that gap
of, you know, it's not enough just to have—be an icon later, you know, and someone talk
about you. And that's one of the things that's so great about Mariah is like she's living her
life now, like she survived it, you know, and she wrote a Christmas classic. And she lives
in a great house and she has beautiful kids. Like she didn't have a tragic ending, you
know? Like some of us, some of us made it. And more of us will.

Danielle ​Thank you so much for joining us on It's Lit! It was so amazing.

Michaela Angela Davis ​Aw, it was lit!

Danielle ​It was lit!

Michaela Angela Davis ​Oh, thank you. I appreciate you all so much.

Danielle ​Oh, we appreciate you.

Maiysha ​Thank you. We appreciate you every day. Thank you.

Maiysha ​The Root Presents It's Lit is produced by myself, Maiysha Kai and Micaela Heck.
Our sound engineer is Ryan Allen.

Danielle ​If you like the show and want to help us out, please give us a rating on Apple
Podcasts. Spread the word. And if you have any thoughts or feedback, you can find me on
Twitter at Black Snob or on Instagram at Belton Danielle.

Maiysha ​And you can find me at Maiysha on Twitter. That's MAIYSHA and at Maiysha Kai
on Instagram.

Danielle ​And before we go, we always like to talk a bit about what we're currently reading.
Maiysha, what are you reading?

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Maiysha ​This is you know, I just got my hands on this really cool little book by Adrienne
Maree Brown. It's called We Will Not Cancel Us: And Other Dreams Of Transformative
Justice. And I'm just starting to get into it. It's I mean, when I say it's a pocket sized edition,
that is not an understatement. But it's so full of gems about how our culture and the the
harms of what we've kind of become accustomed to on social media. And and and I think
Black discourse in particular. I mean, you know, there are definitely things we need to
reject. But there's also I think this wholesale rejection of all things we don't agree with is
dangerous. And this book has been really interesting to me. And I think, you know, when
we talk about somebody like Mariah Carey, even, you know, her story I think is so
interesting in terms of somebody who, you know, has the butterfly as her motif, but kind of
reemerges from that cocoon again and again, which I deeply relate to in my own life. What
are you reading?

Danielle ​You know, I've been reading a lot of books about writing, as you know, as, you
know, working on a book right now. So, you know, Ray Bradbury wrote a great book on
how to write. Stephen King has written the book on writing.

Maiysha ​Oh, yeah.

Danielle ​There's so many great, Joseph Campbell has, you know, The Hero's Journey,
which I've been reading, which is like a dense, very thick...

Maiysha ​I know, I was like, you have to do that in digestible chunks.

Danielle ​Like I'm just like I haven't read a book this hard since like college, you know,.

Maiysha ​You got this you got this. We're all rooting for you.

Danielle ​I'm using muscles I haven't used. Brain muscles that haven't been used in a
decade or more.

Maiysha ​We're so excited to see what comes out of it.

Danielle ​Exactly. Exactly. Well, that's it for us this week. Thank you so much for listening.
And we'll see you next week.

Maiysha ​Until then, keep it lit.

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