Daf Ditty Pesachim 42: The "Wise Men" of Papunya

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RASHI

The Gemara relates: Rav Mattana taught this halakha in Paphunya. On the next day, the eve
of Passover, everyone brought their jugs to him and said to him: Give us water. They
misunderstood his expression mayim shelanu, water that rested, as the near homonym mayim
shelanu, our water, i.e., water that belongs to the Sage, and they therefore came to take water from
his house. He said to them: I say and meant: Water that rested [devitu] in the house overnight.

Rav Yehuda said: A woman may knead matza dough only with water that rested, i.e., water
that was left indoors overnight to cool. If water is added to dough immediately after it was drawn,
when it is still lukewarm, the dough will leaven at a faster rate.

JASTROW

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A dilemma was raised before the Sages: If she transgressed and kneaded the dough with warm
water, what is the halakha? Mar Zutra said: It is permitted after the fact. Rav Ashi said: It is
forbidden.

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Mar Zutra said: From where do I say my opinion on this issue? As it was taught in a baraita:
One may not soak barley on Passover, and if one soaked barley and it split, the barley is
forbidden. If it did not split, the barley is permitted. This case indicates that even if one violates
the principles established by the Sages with regard to adding water to flour on Passover, the
product is forbidden only after the fact if it actually leavened.

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THE LAWS OF LEAVING WATER OVERNIGHT One may not knead except with water that
was left overnight, whether they are waters of a pool or of a spring or whether they are waters of
a river and they should be drawn while it is still day (close to the twilight period)1 or during the
twilight period. One should not knead with them until the entire night has passed.

One is able to draw large quantities of water in a single day. If it is hot at the time [of drawing],
they [the waters] should be placed in the wine cellar which is cooler and if it is cold at the time,
they should be placed out in the open, for the wine cellar is warmer, and one must rise early and
bring them into the house prior to the sun rising, even if it's a cloudy day.

REMA: and [regarding] if they were not brought in early, if they didn't stand [outside] to the
extent that they became warm, they are not tainted. Ideally, the water should be left standing under
the ceiling in case one forgets to bring them in early (B"Y in the name of A"CH).

When transporting the water under the open sky, one should cover it (T"H siman 115 in the name of
SMA"G and SMA"K and MA"HA"RIK).

When Pesach occurs on the first of the week, one should draw the waters on the outset of the 13th
which is [solar] Thursday night (Mordechai end of the first perek of Pesachim). Initially, one should draw
from the rivers and not from the wells (ASHR"Y and Mordechai).

However, when the rivers are expanded from the thawing snow and rainfall, ideally one should
draw from the wells (MAHA"RIV).

One should not spill water left overnight because of a death or the falling of a period [tekoopha]
(Mordechai perek "kol sha'ah" and Haghaot Maimony perek 5). Nevertheless, initially, it’s good to place iron
in them [the water containers]. Also, it is forbidden for a gentile to draw the water for Mitzvah
Matzos and even regarding other Matzot, a Jew should draw the water (Mordechai and MAHA"RI on
RI"N and MAHA"RIL) if possible. It is customary to gather water specifically for the Matzah[s] of
the Mitzvah and to take [the water in] new earthenware vessels and one should not deviate from
the custom. Regarding a wooden vessel, one need not be strict (about all this)

The Beis Yosef (O. C. 455 ‫ )אין ה” ד‬above, cites the opinion of the ‫ יראים‬who discusses the fact
that the Gemara relates the story of Rav Masna and the people of Papunya. He writes that it seems
that this story took place on Pesach itself. The people came to bake matzah, expecting to buy water
from him. Suddenly, they found out that they had misunderstood his lesson from the day before,
and that instead of buying water from Rav Masna, it was necessary to use water that had stayed
overnight.

Unfortunately, this meant that they had not prepared any water overnight for this purpose, and they
had no water to use for that day’s matzah. Nevertheless, the Gemara does not report this as being
any type of crisis. The people were not told to go hungry or without matzah. We see from here,
reports the ‫יראים‬, that the requirement of ‫ שלנו מים‬is not indispensable. If one does not have this
type of water, he may prepare matzah even without it. Others want to say that the story can lead
us to a different conclusion. In fact, the people were lacking in water “from overnight.”

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His own words and Haghot Maimoni perek 5

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However, they simply left water to sit for twelve hours, during that day itself, and they used this
water for the matzah. According to Rashi, this is understandable, because he explains the reason
for ‫ שלנו מים‬is due to the natural heat of water drawn from the ground. Leaving the water to sit after
being drawn is not due to anything intrinsic about night, but simply to have it removed from the
ground for a short duration, in order to cool off.

The people of Papunya did not go hungry, not because they disregarded the need to have ‫שלנו מים‬,
but because they satisfied this halachah by allowing the water to sit for a while that same day.

Sfas Emes notes that the point of the story is that a Torah teacher must be exceedingly careful in
the wording he uses to teach halachos to the general public, because unlearned people might
misunderstand him and arrive at inaccurate conclusions. ‫( יציב דברי ת”שו‬Yoreh De’ah 14:3)
comments that this story illustrates a wonderful lesson about respect and honor for Torah
authorities.

The people of Papunya were under the impression that it was necessary to use the water of Rav
Masna. Apparently, this halachah is illogical and even preposterous. How could the only water
allowed for matzah be that of this Rabbi and his friends?

Yet, they unquestionably accepted his authority. They were devoted to his teachings, and they
accepted the rule that the only water acceptable for the Pesach matzah was that which was procured
from this sainted rabbi.

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Rav Yehuda said: A woman should only knead with water that was left overnight. 2

Rishonim disagree about the reason for such a law. Rashi (1) says the reason is, since in Nissan
the springs are hot, the water needs time to cool down (2) after being drawn. According to the
Yerei’im (3), the water in the springs and rivers are warm at night and don’t cool down until the
daytime. According to this (4), just as one should not draw this water at night neither should he
draw in midday.3 The only time that it would be permissible to draw would be during bein
ha’Shemashos (dusk) which is (in a technically legal way) neither day nor night.

The Mishna Berura (5) and other halachic authorities say that one should ideally follow this
opinion. Many Poskim (6) add that this entire law is based on the actual temperature of the water
(gauged by the human touch).

Therefore, in places which have cold climates and the water freezes, one should not heat up the
water assuming that he will continuously judge the temperature as the process goes along (to
ensure that it remains chilled). Also, if the water did heat up even slightly (7), we cannot assume
that it will ever return to its former status of ‘completely cold.’ And only in extenuating
circumstances or where great financial losses will be incurred can such water be used. (In places
such as Argentina and Australia where the water is hot around Pesach time there are different
opinions (8) what to do.

The city of Papunya is featured in Shas in other contexts, as we find in Kiddushin 35a and Bava
Kamma 54b (see also Chullin 139b and Bava Metzia 68a).

In these instances, they are referred to as “knowing the reason for this matter…” It seems that they
were knowledgeable and wise. It does not seem characteristic of them to be so foolish to
misunderstand Rav Masna and believe that the water needed for matzah had to be bought from
him alone.

2
https://dafdigest.org/masechtos/Pesachim%20042.pdf
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for a full 12 halachic hours are needed from the time the waters became hot until they cool down and become useable

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Pnei Menachem (Erev Pesach) explains that “overnight water” represents lowliness and humility,
as water flows to the lowest point. Matzah, made from only water and flour, also symbolizes that
which is unassuming and simple.

The people of Papunya perceived a deeper meaning into the words of Rav Masna to acquire water
from him. They wanted to learn from this great Torah sage how to achieve new levels of humility.
They came to him to learn how to perfect their personalities and their characters.

Rav Masna understood their yearning, and he told them that they could only succeed if they took
their own water, but it had to settle and be at rest. The message was that they had to each
contemplate their own situation, and to resolve the personal issues necessary to avoid their own
spiritual chometz risks.

The "Wise Men" of Papunya4

Jewish folklore makes fun of the Jewish residents of the town of Chełm as well-meaning fools.
Their stories often center around the "wise men? and their silly decisions.
For example: One Jewish Chełm resident bought a fish on Friday in order to cook it for Shabbos.
He put the live fish underneath his coat and the fish slapped his face with his tail. He went to the
Chełm court to submit a charge and the court sentenced the fish to death by drowning.
Here’s another classic: The people of Chełm were worriers. So, they called a meeting to do
something about the problem of worry. A motion was duly made and seconded to the effect that
Yossel, the cobbler, be retained by the community as a whole to do its worrying, and that his fee
be one ruble per week. The motion was about to carry, all speeches having been for the affirmative,
when one sage propounded the fatal question: If Yossel earned a ruble a week, what would he have
to worry about??
And one more: In Chełm, the shammes (the sexton in the synagogue) used to go around waking
everyone up for prayer services in the morning. Every time it snowed, the people would complain
that, although the snow was beautiful, they could not see it in its pristine state because by the time
they got up in the morning, the shammes had already trekked through the snow. The townspeople
decided that they had to find a way to be woken up for prayers without having the shammes make
tracks in the snow. The wise men of Chełm hit on a solution: They got four volunteers to carry the
shammes around on a table when there was fresh snow in the morning. That way, the shammes
could make his wake-up calls, but he would not leave tracks in the snow.
Well, it would seem that the Talmud has its own version of the Wise Men of Chełm stories.
But first a little background:
Around this time of year, with Passover only a few weeks away, Matzah bakeries all around the
world are churning out matzah faster than you can say. Manischewitz? One of the many
requirements of ritual matzah baking, oddly enough, has to do with the kind of water that is used.

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https://www.torchweb.org/torah_detail.php?id=407

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In keeping with the principle that any warm temperatures can accelerate the fermentation of the
dough, causing it to become chametz (leavened) and unfit for Passover use, Halachah (Jewish law)
dictates that only drawn water that was kept overnight (called mayim shelanu, lit. water that lodged
overnight) may be used for the mixing of the dough. After being drawn, the water used for the
matzah dough must therefore be allowed to stand overnight in order to cool off.
Thus, the Talmud in our daf rules: Rav Yehudah said: A woman should knead the dough for
matzah only with water that was kept overnight (mayim shelanu).
The Talmud then records the following anecdote:
Rav Masnah taught this ruling [in Hebrew] in a public lecture in Papunya [a town in Babylon].
The next day everyone brought their pitchers and came to him [Rav Masnah] saying: Give us
water! [In Hebrew, the word shelanu can have two meanings: our or that was kept overnight
the simple townspeople understood mayim shelanu to mean our water, meaning Rav Masnah's
water, so they all came to his door with pitchers in hand.] He replied to them: I intended: with
water that was kept overnight.
Rabbi Yisrael Salanter (1810-1883) explains that the reason why the Talmud saw fit to record this
seemingly silly Wise Men of Papunya story is to illustrate the great Emunas Chachamim (Faith in
our Wise Rabbis) that Jews of previous generations once had.
One can be sure that the people of Papunya were scratching their heads after the lecture and
wondering why only Rav Masnah's water could be used for kneading the dough for matzah baking.
But if that’s what the Rabbi said (or so they thought), then that's what they were going to do
whether or not they understood it.
Now I know that to some of you reading this, the whole notion of blindly following whatever the
Rabbis say is not a virtue to be admired and praised.
The fact is, though, that the Torah considers Emunas Chachamim not only a great virtue (as
illustrated by the Talmudic tale mentioned above), but it is actually one of the 613 commandments.
As the Torah instructs us in Deuteronomy 17:11: ?? you shall not deviate from the word that they
[the Sages] will tell you, right or left.? This is the primary directive in the Torah that teaches us to
have unswerving obedience to the words of the Torah sages of each generation.
Rashi (ibid.) quotes a Midrash which explains the phrase right or left to mean that even if you are
convinced that the Rabbis are wrong even if they seem to be telling you that right is left, and left
is right you are still commanded to heed their words.

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Cilicia is a geo-cultural region in southern Turkey, extending inland from the northeastern coasts
of the Mediterranean Sea. Cilicia has a population of over six million, concentrated mostly at the
Cilicia plain. The region includes the provinces of Mersin, Adana, Osmaniye, and Hatay.

Epiphania or Epiphaneia (Ancient Greek: Ἐπιφάνεια) was a city in Cilicia Secunda (Cilicia
Trachea), in Anatolia.
The city was originally called Oeniandos or Oiniandos, and was located in the area of the northern
tip of the Gulf of Iskenderun on the route from Missis to Antioch. In the 2nd century BC the city
was renamed Epiphania, in honour of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, King of Syria from 175 BC to 164
BC.
The city is mentioned in the writings of Ptolemy and Pliny the Elder. Cicero stayed there briefly
during his exile. In 66 BC the Roman general Pompey led a campaign against the Mediterranean
pirates. After the surrender of the pirates, they were dispersed, and many were settled at Epiphania.

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 Aqueduct in Epiphania (Hama).
In the second half of the 4th century BC the modern region of Syria came under the influence of
Greco-Roman culture, following long lasting semitic and Persian cultures. Alexander the Great's
campaign from 334 to 323 BC brought Syria under Hellenic rule. Since the country lay on the
trade routes from Asia to Greece, Hama and many other Syrian cities again grew rich through
trade. After the death of Alexander the Great his Near East conquests were divided between his
generals, and Seleucus Nicator became ruler of Syria and the founder of the Seleucid dynasty.
Under the Seleucids there was a revival in the fortunes of Hama. The Aramaeans were allowed to
return to the city, which was renamed Epiphaneia ( Ancient Greek: Ἐπιφάνεια), after the Seleucid
Emperor Antiochus IV Epiphanes. Seleucid rule began to decline, however, in the next two
centuries, and Arab dynasties began to gain control of cities in this part of Syria, including Hama.
The Romans took over original settlements such as Hama and made them their own. They met
little resistance when they invaded Syria under Pompey and annexed it in 64 BC, whereupon Hama
became part of the Roman province of Syria, ruled from Rome by a proconsul. Hama was an
important city during the Greek and Roman periods, but very little archaeological evidence
remains.
In AD 330, the capital of the Roman Empire was moved to Byzantium, and the city continued to
prosper. In Byzantine days Hama was known as Emath or Emathoùs (Εμαθούς in Greek).
Roman rule from Byzantium meant the Christian religion was strengthened throughout the Near
East, and churches were built in Hama and other cities. The Byzantine historian John of
Epiphania was born in Hama in the 6th century.

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 An alley in Old Hama
Eustathius of Epiphaneia (Ancient Greek: Εὐστάθιος Ἐπιφανεύς) was a Greek historian. All his
works lost. The most famous was the "Brief Chronicle" (Ancient Greek: Χρονικὴν ἐπιτομὴν).
Stephanus of Byzantium writes that the Euphrates the Stoic was from Epiphaneia

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