Finding Meaning With Astrological Symbolism

A PHENOMENOLOGICAL INQUIRY INTO THE PROCESS AND EFFECTS
OF FINDING MEANING WITH ASTROLOGICAL SYMBOLISM
by
Elena Kozlova
A dissertation submitted
in partial fulfillment of the requirements
for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy
in Transpersonal Psychology
Institute of Transpersonal Psychology
Palo Alto, California
May 11, 2011
I certify that I have read and approved the content and presentation of this dissertation:
Robert Frager, Ph.D., Committee Chairperson Date
Greg Bogart, Ph.D., Committee Member Date
Michael Mayer, Ph.D., Committee Member Date

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ii
Abstract
A Phenomenological Inquiry Into the Process and Effects of Finding Meaning
With Astrological Symbolism
by
Elena Kozlova
This study reviewed the history and evolution of Western astrology in relation to psychology and
science, and proposed a qualitative approach to the investigation of astrology‘s value for
meaning finding. The review of existing research literature demonstrated minimal research on
astrology‘s meaningfulness and subjective validity for those who believe in it. This study
explored the phenomenon of meaning finding with the use of astrological symbolism and used a
phenomenological qualitative method rather than a quantitative approach as it is more suitable
for assessing the systematic and symbolic nature of astrology. The phenomenological method
approaches the studied phenomenon as a system and is not based on the principles of
object/subject dualism or causality. In addition, different modalities of creative expression were
used during the interview process to evoke in-the-moment experience of finding meaning.
Metaphoric and symbolic meanings were found through creative role play and elements of
psychodrama. The results of the conducted research indicate that astrological symbols are
suitable agents for finding meaning because of their metaphoric, archetypal, manifold, and fluid
meaning nature. The participants found meaning by reorganizing, expanding, and evolving their
initial understanding of life experiences by comparing their literal and symbolic meanings
accessed with astrology. One aspect of meaningfulness is that it is relational and results from
interrelating one‘s literal experience with a broader philosophical, transpersonal, or spiritual
context. A particular value of astrology for the participants was its spiritual framework used for
iii
guidance and its symbolic nature, which allowed the meanings to evolve and change over time.
In addition, study of astrology provided the participants with psychological benefits such as
verification of self-concept, extended self-knowledge, and a sense of certainty and
purposefulness, among others. The results also indicated that understanding self, others, and
cultural trends, as a whole, contributes to the sense of meaningfulness.
iv
Dedication
To the Great Teachers of Light:
You are my heart, and, as much as this work carries the results of my heart labor, it is your work.
To my husband Chris, and our sons Savva and Luka, with all my love and appreciation.
To my parents, Larisa and Victor Kozlov, with deep love and gratitude.
v
Acknowledgements
I would like to express my heartfelt gratitude to my dissertation committee, my teachers
at the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology, friends, and loved ones for supporting me during
the creative, fully encompassing, often challenging but ultimately meaningful and significant
process of completing my dissertation.
Special thanks to my dissertation committee for providing their time and energy so
generously, and to each member individually for contributing his unique talents and wisdom to
this process. To my chair, Dr. Robert Frager, for his practical insight, fast responses, and
continuous support during the dissertation process. To Dr. Greg Bogart for his soulful and in-
depth comments after multiple readings of my manuscript, which made this work much more
heart-centered and integrated. To Dr. Michael Mayer for his detailed, illuminating, and precise
feedback that shaped my research results into a much more solid and reliable work. I am also
grateful to my research participants for generously volunteering their time and sharing their life
experiences with much depth and wisdom.
I would like to thank all of my teachers at the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology for
sharing their wisdom, knowledge, and heart with me during my 6-year-long journey through the
graduate program. Special thanks go to Kathleen Wall, Carl Peters, Olga Louchakova, Charlotte
Lewis, Lisa Herman, Ann Gila, and John Firman, for being my mentors and for teaching me the
most valuable skills of psychotherapy, which is both spiritually-based and heart-centered, and for
providing warmth and personal support when I faced the challenges of going through the
graduate program while taking care of my newborn twins.
A heartfelt thank you goes to my friend Mei-Yan Chiang, who selflessly helped me with
the countless draft refinements and phenomenological reductions and provided invaluable
vi
emotional support and therapeutic insight with her metaphor work. In addition, I wish to thank
Eric Reed for his generous editorial help, and for his enduring friendship.
To my special husband Chris Grzeszczak, who took care of our newborn twins while I
was going through the graduate program and dissertation process, for his endless patience and
love, and unconditional support in all of my endeavors. This work could have not been
completed without him, and I dedicate it to Chris with all of my love and appreciation for his
irreplaceable gifts and profound contribution to my life.
Special thanks and my endless love go to my parents, Larisa and Victor Kozlov, who
have supported me emotionally and financially through many years of graduate school, and have
always believed in me. Thank you for giving me the gifts of freedom, enjoyment of life, spiritual
insight, optimism, and for your unconditional support of all of my life choices.
vii
Table of Contents
Abstract .......................................................................................................................................... iii
Dedication ........................................................................................................................................v
Acknowledgements ........................................................................................................................ vi
List of Tables ................................................................................................................................ xii
Chapter 1: Introduction ....................................................................................................................1
Overview of Content ........................................................................................................... 2
What Is Astrology? ............................................................................................................. 4
Foundations of Astrology ................................................................................................... 5
Definition of Terms............................................................................................................. 6
Personal Motivation .......................................................................................................... 10
Chapter 2: Literature Review .........................................................................................................13
Historical Development of Western Astrology................................................................. 13
The Greek Legacy ................................................................................................. 14
The Medieval and Renaissance Periods ................................................................ 16
Scientific Revolution ............................................................................................ 17
Current Research ............................................................................................................... 17
Validity of Astrological Claims ............................................................................ 18
Psychological Roots of Belief in Astrology.......................................................... 26
Astrology and Psychology .................................................................................... 29
A Psychology of Meaning .................................................................................... 52
Summary of Literature Review ......................................................................................... 63
Chapter 3: Research Methods ........................................................................................................65
viii
Basic Principles of Phenomenology ................................................................................. 67
Development of Phenomenology.......................................................................... 67
Life-World ............................................................................................................ 68
Prereflective Awareness........................................................................................ 70
Transcendental Attitude and Phenomenological Epoche ..................................... 71
Astrology, Phenomenology, and Meaning............................................................ 72
Conclusion ............................................................................................................ 74
Research Design................................................................................................................ 74
Sample Description ........................................................................................................... 75
Measures or Surveys ......................................................................................................... 77
Data Collection Procedures............................................................................................... 78
Data Analysis Procedures ................................................................................................. 78
Limitations and Delimitations........................................................................................... 86
Chapter 4: Results ..........................................................................................................................87
Demographics ................................................................................................................... 88
Participant 1: MaryAnn‘s Situated Structure ........................................................ 89
Summary of MaryAnn‘s Situated Structure ......................................................... 98
Participant 2: Iris‘s Situated Structure .................................................................. 99
Summary of Iris‘s Situated Structure .................................................................. 108
Participant 3: Alex‘s Situated Structure .............................................................. 109
Summary of Alex‘s Situated Structure ............................................................... 116
Participant 4: Hardy‘s Situated Structure ........................................................... 117
Summary of Hardy‘s Situated Structure ............................................................. 125
ix
Meaning Shifts Between Symbolic and Literal .................................................. 127
Astrology as a System of Guidance .................................................................... 127
Psychological Benefits: Self-Identification, Self-Validation, and Others .......... 128
Meaning and Perceptions of Certainty/Uncertainty ............................................ 129
Symbolic Retrospective Process ......................................................................... 129
Symbolic Meanings Are Evolving and Manifold ............................................... 130
Self and Other ..................................................................................................... 130
Cultural Context .................................................................................................. 130
Astrology as a Psychological Tool ..................................................................... 131
Summary of General Structure ....................................................................................... 131
Chapter 5: Discussion ..................................................................................................................134
Meaning Shifts Between Symbolic and Literal .............................................................. 134
Astrology as a System of Guidance ................................................................................ 137
Psychological Benefits: Self-Identification, Self-Validation, and Others ...................... 138
Meaning and Perceptions of Certainty/Uncertainty ........................................................ 140
Self and Other ................................................................................................................. 141
Symbolic Retrospective Process ..................................................................................... 142
Symbols Are Evolving and Manifold ............................................................................. 142
Cultural Context .............................................................................................................. 143
Astrology as a Psychological Tool ................................................................................. 144
Conclusions ..................................................................................................................... 146
Implications for Transpersonal Psychology.................................................................... 150
Limitations and Delimitations......................................................................................... 154
x
Future Research .............................................................................................................. 155
References ....................................................................................................................................161
Appendix A: Participant Consent Form .......................................................................................170
Appendix B: Confidentiality Agreement for Transcriptionist .....................................................172
Appendix C: Demographics Questionnaire .................................................................................173
Appendix D: Natal Charts of the Participants..............................................................................174
MaryAnn‘s Natal Chart................................................................................................... 174
Iris‘s Natal Chart ............................................................................................................. 175
Alex‘s Natal Chart .......................................................................................................... 176
Hardy‘s Natal Chart ........................................................................................................ 177
Appendix E: The Participants‘ Phenomenological Transformations...........................................178
Participant 1: MaryAnn................................................................................................... 178
Participant 2: Iris ............................................................................................................. 202
Participant 3: Alex .......................................................................................................... 229
Participant 4: Hardy ........................................................................................................ 262
xi
List of Tables
Table Page
1 Key Constituents for Participant 1 .....................................................................................99
2 Key Constituents for Participant 2 ...................................................................................108
xii
1
Chapter 1: Introduction
Quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius—That which is above is as that which is below.
Hermes Trismegistus, Smaragdine, Table of Hermes
Since ancient times, the stars and planets have fascinated the human mind with their
mystery and have inspired unwavering curiosity, wonderment, and awe. Two disciplines of
knowledge—astronomy and astrology—inseparable at first, have sought an understanding of the
physical and metaphysical nature of the sky and its relationship with the Earth and humans.
Astronomy eventually became a science of the physical laws governing the universe while
astrology concentrated on the mythical and metaphysical connections between the universe and
the Earth. In the West, astrology has endured ups and downs in acceptance but has remained
alive and popular, and has developed into a complex psychological system of interest to
psychologists.
A review of astrology‘s evolution and current relationship to science and psychology
presented in Chapter 2 will set up a contextual framework for this study. The aim of the
conducted study was to evaluate how astrology is used by people who believe in it to find
meaning and to cope with life events. The peculiar split between astrology‘s continuous
popularity among the lay public and its adamant repudiation by most scientist calls for more
research into the nature of astrology‘s appeal and usefulness. Why do people find astrology
subjectively meaningful? What are the benefits of working with a complex symbol system like
astrology in understanding self or others? This study investigated these questions while
considering astrology a complex and holistic system as opposed to the currently prevalent
quantitative approach to research of astrology‘s predictive efficacy based on the principles of
causality and subject/object dualism.

2
A few hundred studies of predictive and construct validity (e.g., Clarke, Gabriels, &
Barnes, 1996; Cooper, 1973; Cooper & Smithers, 1978; Pokorny & Jachimczyk, 1974), as well
as a few dozen studies of the psychological foundations of belief in astrology (e.g., Glick,
Gottesman, & Jolton, 1989; Lillqvist & Lindeman, 1998; Van Rooij, 1994) have been conducted
in the past 60 years. The majority of quantitative studies report negative findings (e.g., Clarke et
al., 1996) on astrology‘s predictive validity of psychological traits. Others (e.g., Cooper &
Smithers, 1978; Gauquelin, Gauquelin, & Eysenck, 1979; Mayo, White, & Eysenck, 1978),
however, demonstrate positive correlations between the horoscope and psychological qualities.
The contradictory results and general scientific dismissal of astrology as pseudoscience due to
the inconsistent research results does not allow for an adequate evaluation of astrology‘s value or
usefulness for psychology. The quantitative approach to the research of astrology is predominant.
Only a handful of research projects, presented in thesis and dissertations (e.g., Coleman, 1991;
Gaynor, 1981; Laster, 1976; Mayer, 1977; Mivtzari Weil, 2002; Moffat, 1977; Tyson, 1979),
study astrology as a system and show its symbolic, psychological, and subjective value vis-a-vis
psychology. This study aimed to add to the existing research by critiquing the quantitative
approach to astrology and demonstrating why qualitative methods may be more appropriate for
accessing astrology as a system with many interrelated and changeable variables. Additionally, it
focused on the psychological phenomenon of meaning creation, which may be of interest to
psychologists regardless of their interest in, or belief, in astrology.
Overview of Content
In Chapter 1, the researcher defines the goals of this study and orients the reader to its
content and organization. Chapter 1 provides a brief introduction to the basic principles of
3
astrology, continues with the definitions of commonly used terms, and concludes with the
personal motivation of this study‘s author.
Chapter 2 starts with a historical overview of Western astrology‘s development discussed
in the context of the evolving Western world view. Due to the fact that modern Western
astrology developed most significantly during the Greek Hellenic period, Greek philosophy
receives ample attention within the historical overview. After establishing the historical context,
Chapter 2 turns to an overview of current research literature. The larger body of astrological
research focused on the empirical testing of astrological principles. The researcher critiques the
quantitative approach to investigating astrology as inadequate and establishes the need for a
qualitative method of research. The next section of Chapter 2 presents the research on
psychological reasons for belief in astrology and discusses positive psychological effects
astrology has on coping with stress and self-verification. The following section of Chapter 2
presents an overview of the current relationship between psychology and astrology, and traces
evolution of modern Western astrology towards a less deterministic, psychological stance.
Chapter 2 proceeds with a discussion of potential uses of astrology in psychotherapy, and
concludes with an overview of theories and empirical research on meaning creation.
Chapter 3 follows with a detailed description of phenomenology—the research method
chosen for the conducted study. It identifies the philosophical foundations of the method‘s
qualitative approach, demonstrates its appropriateness to the nature of the studied phenomenon,
and details how the research was conducted, including data collection and interpretation. It is
also necessary to define the terms commonly used in this study and to introduce some basic
principles of astrology.
4
Chapter 4 presents the reader with the research data. It begins with demographic
information for the participants, and continues with phenomenologically analyzed personal
narratives of each participant, summarized in individual situated structures. The situated
structures are written in psychological language but include naïve descriptions from the
interviews to better orient the reader with the findings and data. Chapter 4 concludes with a
global structure of meaning, representing essential themes that constitute the structure of the
studied phenomena, and derived by the analysis and comparison between the individual situated
structures.
Chapter 5 presents the elaborate discussion of the findings and places them in the context
of existing theoretical works and empirical research. In addition, a few new resources relevant to
this research are reviewed. Chapter 5 begins with the discussion of each key constituent,
representing essential themes common in the experiences of all participants. The discussion
continues with the delimitations and limitations of the study, implications of the findings for
psychology, and completes with recommendations for future research.
What Is Astrology?
According to Webster’s Third New International Dictionary (1993), the word astrology
comes from Greek astr, denoting a star, plus logia/logy, denoting a study. It has two meanings:
the first, archaic—astronomy; and, second,—‖the divination that treats of the supposed
influences of the stars upon human affairs and of foretelling terrestrial events by their positions
and aspects‖ (Webster’s, 1993, p. 135). Another definition of astrology was given by Gauquelin
(1991), a French psychologist and one of the most devoted researchers of astrological claims:
―astrology is the art or science, opinions differ on this point, of describing the character or
destiny of a person by observing the position of the stars at the moment of the person‘s birth‖ (p.
5
13). This later argument on whether astrology ―is the art or science‖ will find its reflection in a
flurry of controversial findings and opinions on the value of the ancient discipline.
Before the 17th century, astrology was considered a science and often studied in
conjunction with astronomy (Gauquelin, 1969). A few prominent scientists whose discoveries
laid the foundation for modern science also contributed to the development of astronomy and
astrology. Copernicus, Galileo, and Kepler studied and used astrology in conjunction with their
astronomical research (Rutkin, 2001). Following the separation of the mystical and spiritual from
the material prompted by Descartes‘, Kant‘s, and many others‘ philosophical ideas, astrology
lost its status, and began to be considered a pseudoscience.
Historically, different systems of astrology have developed all over the world. Vedic,
Chinese, and Tibetan astrologies have evolved in the East for thousands of years. Western
astrology has been practiced in Europe and North America, and is believed to have originated in
Babylonia, Egypt, and Chaldea as far back as 3,000 BCE (Gauquelin, 1969). Over 2000 years
ago, Plato (1961 version) in Epinomis referred to the first observations of the planetary
movements made in Egypt and Syria that ―stood the test [for] a vast, indeed incalculable, lapse of
years‖ (p. 1528). Whereas various systems of astrology differ on in their methods of
interpretation, and even use different zodiacs—sidereal in the East (Braha, 2001), tropical in the
West, or the year based zodiac in Chinese astrology (Wu, 2005)—they agree on the basic
premise that the stars and planets impact human life in a predictable and meaningful way.
Foundations of Astrology
The fundamental premise of astrology is that the Universe is one interconnected system,
where microcosm reflects macrocosm and vice versa. The Solar System has particular
significance for the affairs on Earth, although other fixed stars and some asteroids are also
6
considered influential. The zodiac belt surrounding the Sun‘s ecliptic is believed to radiate
different types of psychic and physical energy, which is carried to the Earth by the planets of the
Solar System. Each planet represents a particular principle, for example: Mars—energy and
drive; Venus—relationship and harmony; Jupiter—wisdom and fortune; Saturn—discipline and
tradition; Mercury—mind and communication. All living beings on Earth are receivers of these
energies imprinted in a horoscope—a map of the sky at the moment of one‘s birth. Thus,
astrologers believe it is possible to read personal character and destiny from the horoscope by
interpreting the meaning of planets and signs of the zodiac in relation to each other.
Different systems of astrology are impacted by the philosophical and spiritual beliefs
present in their originating cultures. For example, modern Western astrology started developing
in the 20th century and presupposes that the free will of an individual has significant impact on
his or her life. It focuses on psychological traits reflected in the horoscope, and operates on the
principle that character is destiny. Traditional Western astrology places more emphasis on fate
but does not deny free will. Rather it considers that astrology provides information for aligning
one‘s will with the cosmic forces at large (Plato, 1961 version). Eastern astrology, such as Vedic
practiced in India, is more predictive although it also recognizes the importance of free will
(Braha, 2001). It surmises that one‘s destiny is a result of actions conducted in previous lives,
and can be read with certainty in a horoscope. Due to the fact that modern Western astrology is
more psychological in nature, it was chosen as the focus of the conducted study.
Definition of Terms
Many technical terms specific to astrology and psychology are discussed throughout this
study. This section defines all commonly used terms for consistency and for the reader‘s
7
convenience. As the conducted study focuses on astrological symbology, basic astrological terms
will be introduced first.
Astrology is an ancient discipline concerned with the planetary influences on human
affairs, character, and destiny. The zodiac refers to a belt of constellations centered around the
Sun‘s ecliptic and divided into 12 segments, called the signs of the zodiac. Tropical zodiac is
based on the division of 360 degrees of ecliptic into 12 equal signs corresponding to the
equinoxes—2 days in a year when day and night are equally long, and when the Earth‘s axis is
inclined neither away nor towards the Sun. The Vernal (spring) Equinox always coincides with
the Sun entering 0 degrees of Aries, and the Autumnal Equinox coincides with the Sun‘s entering
0 degrees of Libra.
In contrast, Sidereal zodiac is based on the 12 signs closely corresponding to
astronomical constellations along the Sun‘s ecliptic. Due to the precession of equinoxes—
rotation of Earth‘s axis that takes 25,800 years—currently tropical and sidereal zodiac differ by
approximately 24 degrees. In other words, when Sun is at 0 degrees of Aries in the tropical
zodiac, it is passing 6 degrees of Pisces in sidereal zodiac (Dreyer, 1997). Ecliptic is the apparent
yearly path of the Sun as seen from the Earth. As the Earth makes its yearly rotation around the
Sun, the Sun appears to be moving through the signs of the zodiac in a circular path.
Masculine (positive) signs are the odd signs of the zodiac (Aries, Gemini, Leo, Libra,
Sagittarius, and Aquarius) and are associated with outgoing, expressive, outwardly directed
psychological characteristics. In contrast, feminine (negative) signs—the even signs of the zodiac
(Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio, Capricorn, and Pisces)—are associated with introverted,
responding, inwardly directed psychological characteristics. In astrological theory, the
predominance of masculine signs in the individual horoscope symbolizes an extroverted and

8
outgoing personality, while the predominance of feminine signs—a more reflective and
introverted one.
The term horoscope refers to a map of the sky at the moment of one‘s birth. The
horoscope has four angles—the ascendant, descendent, midheaven, and nadir—which are
associated with the most fundamental areas of one‘s life. Astrological theory considers the angles
most powerful for the planetary expression. Astronomically, the angles are formed by the
intersection between the lines representing the horizon (ascendant—descendant) and the
meridian (midheaven—nadir) at the place of one‘s birth.
The ascendant (rising sign) is the sign of the zodiac rising on the horizon at the time of
one‘s birth and is associated with one‘s character and physical body. Some astrologers consider
the ascendant the most important factor in judging the individual‘s character due to its symbolic
affiliation to the individual‘s vitality and physical body (Morin, 1974). Others give it lesser
importance than the Sun and the Moon placement, but all agree that it is one of the most
significant points in the horoscope. For example, an astrologer might expect that an individual
with Aries ascendant would exhibit a very independent, pioneering, and action-oriented
personality in accord with the nature of sign Aries and its planetary ruler Mars. In contrast, an
individual with Taurus ascendant would possess a resourceful, persistent, gentle, and artistically-
oriented personality in accord with the nature of sign Taurus and its planetary ruler, Venus.
The descendant is the sign of the zodiac opposed to the ascendant and is associated with
partnerships and relationships in one‘s life. Midheaven or MC (Medium Coeli) is the sign of the
zodiac that is at the top of the chart and associated with one‘s career and life direction. Nadir or
IC (Imum Coeli) is the sign of the zodiac that is at the bottom of the chart and associated with
9
one‘s family of origins and home. Astronomically, the top of the chart represents the sky above
the horizon, while the bottom of the chart represents the sky below the horizon.
The angles of the horoscope start the angular houses. Houses of the horoscope are 12
segments of the ecliptic as seen from the Earth at the time and place of one‘s birth. Houses
represent different aspects of human life such as health, wealth, relationships, career, and others.
Planets are placed in the houses of a horoscope according to their position along the ecliptic.
Rising planet is a planet that rises on the horizon at the time of one‘s birth. Culminating planet is
a planet that is in Zenith at the time of one‘s birth.
As modern Western astrology is psychological in nature and has been influenced by Carl
Jung‘s psychological theory, some of the key psychological terms coined by Carl Jung (1958,
1973, 1989) need definition. First is the concept of synchronicity—a coincidental occurrence of
two or more events that form a connection that has a special and personal meaning for the
perceiver. The principle of synchronicity is analogous to the basic premise of astrology that
establishes an acausal connection between man‘s subjective experience and planetary
symbolism.
An archetype is a pattern representing fundamental themes in human experience or
psychology. An archetype does not have a form; it is a pure idea in the Platonic sense, or a
primordial form. The archetype may be perceived through various concrete forms. For example,
the Mother archetype can be experienced in a womb, a fountain, or in an enclosed warm dark
space. In astrology, each planet is associated with an archetype, for example, the Moon and
Venus are associated with the expressions of feminine archetypes, while the Sun, Mars, and
Jupiter are associated with the manifestations of masculine archetypes.

10
The personal unconscious is a reservoir of individual psychological material forgotten or
suppressed from the consciousness. In Jung‘s (1969a) definition, ―the personal unconscious is
made up essentially of contents which have at one time been conscious but which have
disappeared from consciousness through having been forgotten or repressed‖ (p. 42). In contrast,
the collective unconscious is ―made up essentially of archetypes,‖ and represents ―a psychic
system of a collective, universal, and impersonal nature which is identical in all individuals‖ (p.
42). The collective unconscious is not based on personal experiences but is inherited and consists
of ―pre-existent forms, the archetypes, which can only become conscious secondarily and which
give definite form to certain psychic contents‖ (p. 43).
Individuation is the process whereby the individual integrates the unconscious into
consciousness, or in Jung‘s (1969a) definition, ―the process by which a person becomes a
psychological ‗in-dividual,‘ that is, a separate, indivisible unity or ‗whole‘‖ (p. 275). In the
process of individuation, the undifferentiated tends to become individual, or those processes
through which differentiated components tend toward becoming a more indivisible whole. Jung
(1969b) wrote:
Individuation means becoming a single, homogeneous being, and, insofar as

―individuality‖ embraces our innermost, last, and incomparable uniqueness, it also
implies becoming one‘s own self. We could therefore translate individuation as ―coming
to selfhood‖ or ―self-realization.‖ (p. 171)
Thus, individuation for Jung is a process of self-realization and achieving psychological
wholeness marked by the integration between the individual unconsciousness and consciousness.
Personal Motivation
My deep interest in astrology began to develop during my teenage years. I found general
astrological descriptions fascinating, meaningful, and resonating with my internal experience of
myself and people around me. I received my first professional reading at the age of 21. It
11
intrigued me with its insightfulness and surprising accuracy and ignited my lifelong passion for
studying astrology. I voraciously consumed volumes of astrological literature, learning the
language, symbology, and principles of this discipline. From the beginning, my interest was in
astrology as a comprehensive discipline of knowledge capable of providing complex and
meaningful answers to my life‘s questions; I avoided popular astrology offered for entertainment
by the mass media. Over the years, I have studied with different teachers and met like-minded
people who shared the same interest and belief in the ancient discipline. For the past 10 years, I
have been teaching astrology and doing horoscope interpretations on a professional basis. I have
always approached astrology with a researcher‘s mind, continuously testing its theories against
practical experience and common sense. Finding deeply meaningful correspondences between
astrological symbols and experiences of my clients and my own has convinced me of the
psychological and metaphorical value of astrology and has motivated me to conduct this
research.
Astrological symbols became another language, a profound system that illuminated the
meaning and underlying patterns of my life. Most of this understanding is psychological and
reveals how the symbols in my horoscope represent the events, feelings, and choices I have
made. As an interesting illustration, I will share how my choice of the dissertation topic is
symbolically represented in my horoscope. The process of choosing my topic was
straightforward and without much deliberation. Due to my lifelong interest in astrology and an
equally passionate interest in psychology, it was clear to me from the beginning of my graduate
program that I was going to combine the two topics in my research. However, for almost a year,
I was uncertain about the specific research question.

12
In my horoscope, two planets, Neptune and Jupiter, are placed next to each other at the
end of the 9th house (higher education, philosophy) while being close to the Midheaven (career,
life calling). Psychologically, Neptune represents uncertainty and lack of clarity, while Jupiter
symbolizes one‘s quest for meaning and truth. It is noteworthy that my choice of a research topic
focuses on how people find meaning (in accord with Jupiter‘s symbolism). The uncertainty I
have experienced while narrowing down my topic is represented by Neptune.
Both planets are in the house of higher education symbolic of my long-term commitment
to the graduate program in psychology. Additionally, both planets are connected to the house of
career and life‘s calling, as if bridging the two houses together. Since my early 20s, I have been
on a quest to find a meaningful career, and for many years felt uncertain of what direction to take
in spite of my undergraduate work in psychology. The reflection on the symbolic meaning of
Jupiter and Neptune in my chart illuminated and validated the uncertainty I experienced
regarding a meaningful avocation and reinforced my belief in the purposeful and archetypal
nature of my experience.
Knowledge of astrology has enriched me and has reaffirmed my belief in the
meaningfulness, orderliness, and spiritual dimensions of life. I began this research with the intent
of investigating what makes astrology meaningful and exploring astrology‘s symbolic value with
the phenomenological method. In particular, I was interested in how astrological symbols aid
people in finding meaning, handling change and transitions, understanding the cycles of living in
a conscious way, facing crisis, coming to terms with death, and finding meaning in suffering. On
a broader transpersonal note, it was worth investigating how the belief in astrology relates to
one‘s cosmology and belief in the meaningfulness of life. I hope that the results of this research
are of interest to psychologists regardless of their familiarity with, or belief in, astrology.
13
Chapter 2: Literature Review
This chapter presents an overview of the literature and research on astrology and meaning
grouped into four thematic sections. The first section focuses on the history of Western astrology
and its changing position within the Western world view. The second part of the chapter presents
a critical review of the existing research on astrology‘s validity, meaning, and reasons for
popularity. This section is most detailed due to the large volume of studies conducted in the past
60 years. Additionally, the critique of the methodology used in the previous studies is presented
where appropriate. The third section continues with a discussion of astrological theory in relation
to modern psychology. The fourth section concludes the review with an overview of theories and
research on processes of finding meaning. The overarching purpose of this chapter is to
comprehensively evaluate the existing body of literature and research on astrology and to
establish the relevance of this study.
Historical Development of Western Astrology
While different systems of astrology have been developing all over the world for
thousands of years, modern Western astrology traces its roots to Chaldea, Babylonia, and Egypt
as far back as 3000 BCE. The first observations of astrology were connected with the movements
and positions of the Sun and Moon and the change of seasons; later, systematic observations
confirmed the movement of the stars in particular patterns. However, predictive astrology
emerged after the discovery of the zodiac by the Babylonians somewhere between 700 – 400
BCE (Gauquelin, 1969).
When Alexander the Great conquered Chaldea in 300 BCE, the Greeks took the
astrological knowledge collected and standardized by the Chaldeans and refined it with more
observations of planetary movements and signs of the Zodiac. Astrology was grafted onto
14
Hippocratic medicine by Berossus; it matured in the works of Eudoxus, Galen, and the
Alexandrians; and it was comprehensively summarized in Tetrabiblos by the noted Alexandrian
astronomer and astrologer, Ptolemy (2nd Century BCE/1976). The basic principles of astrological
knowledge, outlined by Ptolemy, are still in use today. Ptolemy‘s astronomical and philosophical
model of the geocentric universe remained the basis of astronomy for over 1500 years, and gave
way to Copernicus heliocentric model of the universe in the 16th century (Gauquelin, 1969;
Gaynor, 1981).
Astrology greatly advanced during the Greek Hellenic period, and developed in close
connection with philosophical and scientific views of that time. As the Greek culture marked the
beginning of Western civilization as we know it today, and because the ideas originating then
have laid the foundations for the continuous development of Western thought and science, they
merit a more detailed discussion (Tarnas, 1991).
The Greek Legacy
Tarnas (1991) in the Passion of the Western Mind elegantly summarized the dual legacy
left by the Greek philosophical movement. On one hand, Greek philosophers such as Plato (1961
version) viewed the universe as intelligible and discoverable by the human mind. Plato, Aristotle
(1973 version), and many other Greek philosophers attributed a Divine, transcendent quality to
Reason, which, in its most pure application, allowed man to apprehend both natural laws and the
Divine principles within. They believed that behind the visible world exists a deeper meaning ―in
some senses both rational and mythic in character, which is reflected in the empirical order but
which emanates from an eternal dimension that is both source and goal of all existence‖ (Tarnas,
1991, p. 70). These principles—quite influential in the continuous development of Western

15
worldview—were based on the synthesis between the belief in the transcendent, Divine origins
of nature, and the physical, empirically knowable world.
Astrology fit well into this paradigm. Early Greeks believed that the stars were the
physical manifestations of Gods, and the orderliness of the cosmos was a testament to the
unchangeable, transcendent, and perfect Divine. The first psychological characteristics attributed
to the planets were derived from the myths about their corresponding Gods. For example, Venus
represented love, beauty, and harmony, like the goddess Aphrodite; Mars—aggression and
strength, like the god Ares; Jupiter—benevolence and good luck, like Zeus (Plato, 1961 version).
Another equally powerful set of convictions, which represented the other side of the dual
Greek legacy, asserted that human knowledge can be acquired only through reasoning and
empirical observations. The philosophical traditions of naturalistic empiricism from Thales,
rationalism from Parmenides, or skepticism of Sophists crystallized into the view that the only
humanly useful truth should be sought in the corporeal world, not in intangible otherworldly
reality. According to this perspective, the causes of natural phenomena are not personal but
physical, and can be found in observable nature. This view excluded the mythological and
supernatural elements from any causal explanation and considered them ―the anthropomorphic
projections‖ (Tarnas, 1991, p. 70). This perspective became the basis of modern natural science
which consequently rejected astrology for its mythological nature and inexactness.
Astrology remained an important study within the Greek tradition. In Plato‘s view (1961
version), a philosopher ought to study astronomy for it gave access to the orderly movement of
the stars—the physical manifestations of Divine. In Epinomis Plato stated,
none can ever be found fairer and more accessible to all mankind, or set in a more
excellent region and more eminent in purity, majesty, and fullness of life than has been
shown in the fashioning of them [heavenly bodies] all. (p. 1526)
16
Astrology used advances in astronomy to refine its predictive abilities. The view of astrology
was that the microcosm of man and the macrocosm of the universe were sympathetically
connected. Generally, astrology was believed to provide a sense of security by enabling an
individual to understand his or her fate and to act in accordance with it. Interestingly, this point
of view from antiquity finds validation in the findings of modern research that demonstrate that
astrology often helps people deal with stress and reaffirms a sense of self (e.g., Glick,
Gottesman, & Jolton, 1989; Lillqvist & Lindeman, 1998).
The Medieval and Renaissance Periods
As the classical Greek era gave way to the emerging era of Christianity, values and
philosophical paradigms shifted dramatically. Christian thought become progressively more
discouraging of scientific developments, and, in particular, the study of astronomy and astrology.
According to the Christian view, the absolute Truth was already revealed to the human mind
through the Bible, so there was no need to look for it intellectually, mathematically, and
scientifically. Astrology was condemned for being deterministic and antithetical to divine
Providence as well as human responsibility (Tarnas, 1991). After the collapse of the Roman
Empire, with Europe under barbaric invasion and in political and economic turmoil, astrology
survived and flourished in the Arabic culture where it captivated the minds of great philosophers
and scientists such as Avicenna, Albumasar, Albategnious, and others (Gauquelin, 1969; Tarnas,
1991).
In the 12th and 13th centuries, astrology resurfaced in Europe again. At that time, it was
somewhat redeemed by the philosopher Aquinas (1945 version), when he proposed that the
planets influenced only man‘s physical nature, but he had God-given reason and free will which
he could use to free himself of their reign. For the next few centuries, astrology remained in high
17
esteem and was studied along other sciences (usually astronomy or medicine) at the universities
such as University of Bologna, and University of Krakow, among others (Gauquelin, 1969;
Thorndike, 1923).
Scientific Revolution
It is noteworthy that astronomy‘s advances were at the roots of the scientific revolution.
The conceptual shift from geocentric to heliocentric view of the Universe, proposed by
Copernicus and further developed by Kepler, Gallileo, and Newton, marked the beginning of the
new era—the divorce between religion and science. For the next 300 years science not religion
nor even philosophy would determine the reliable truths about the world based on empirical data
and logic. The ideas of transcendent or Divine origins of the creation became more and more
questionable, as scientific progress revealed the physical laws of the universe (Tarnas, 1991).
Consequently, astrology was rebuked for its archetypal and metaphysical nature. From the 1700s
until the beginning of the 20th century astrology remained largely ignored by the scientific
community despite its continuous popularity among lay people. In the 20th century, a renewed
interest in scientific study of astrology resulted in extensive research. The following section
reviews the direction, methods, and results of this research.
Current Research
The current review of the existing literature on astrology can be roughly separated into
three categories. They are: studies of astrology‘s validity; studies of the psychological
foundations of the belief in astrology; and studies on the connection between psychology and
astrology, and astrology‘s usefulness for psychology.

18
Validity of Astrological Claims
Gauquelin and Morin. The majority of research on astrology to date has been focused on
verifying astrological claims that the stars have definite and predictable influence on human
character and activities. Some adherents of astrology question whether the relationship between
the planetary influences and human character can be tested statistically, or if it should be taken as
a symbolic, metaphorical language of correspondences (Perry, 1997). The author argues that
quantitative empirical methods are not suitable for the study of astrology because of its
systematic and holistic complexity and its many changing and sometimes unknown variables.
Astrology defies causality where one variable is the cause of another one. With its main motto,
―as above, so below,‖ astrology is better approached as a system in which the planets, the
universe, and the human mind are different aspects of one interconnected system.
For instance, when an astrologer analyzes a horoscope, a synthesis of many elements
occurs, and the mind of the astrologer is also a variable in that process. The symbolic meaning of
the chart is filtered through the intuition of the reader, resulting in interpretation variations.
Additionally, because astrology deals with the changeable nature of human character and
behavior, the exactness of prediction is unlikely. No modern astrological system asserts the
complete determinism of the stars. Free will may alter the outcome of situations otherwise
predicted by astrology. From the point of view of social science, reducing human behavior to
only external and observable characteristics has been criticized for its inability to deal with
entirely internal experiences (Valle, King, & Halling, 1989). Astrology deals with both external
and internal human experiences and should be approached with a methodology that can
encompass both.
19
Gauquelin (1969), however, argued that because astrology is based on specific rules
developed as a result of countless observations, it should be subject to the laws of causality and
statistical analysis. In The Scientific Basis of Astrology he presented the results of his vigorous
and extensive research on astrology conducted on large samples and in different countries.
According to Gauquelin, most basic rules and postulates of astrology are ―imaginary doctrines‖
(p. 145). He, however, elaborated the ―new‖ astrology based on the statistically significant
correlations discovered in his research.
In a 1979 study, Gauquelin, Gauquelin, and Eysenck located 16,000 birth charts for
famous French sportsmen, actors, and scientists with the precise date and location of birth and
personal characteristics from their biographies. The positions of Mars, Saturn, and Jupiter were
calculated for each person with the emphasis on rise or culmination of these planets. The
personality descriptions were independently rated on extroversion (E), neuroticism (N), and
psychotism (P) and scores assigned for each category. The researchers hypothesized and later
confirmed that people born when Saturn had just risen or just passed its upper culmination are
more often introverted, and those born when Mars and Jupiter had just risen, or just passed their
upper culminations, are extraverted. Culmination of a planet occurs when it occupies the highest
position in a horoscope, which is considered the most powerful point along with the ascendant,
descendant, and IC (for a more detailed explanation refer to Definition of Terms in Chapter 1).
No positive correlations were found for N and only relatively weak effects for P.
Throughout his career Gauquelin (1969) conducted many studies of astrology, most of
which showed no evidence for basic astrological claims; however, the correlation of planets in
the rising or culminating position and profession of eminent people was repeatedly replicated
(Ertel & Kurtz, 1992). These results produced controversy and polemics in scholarly press. Dean
20
and Kelly (2003), for example, explained it by the possibility that birth data were manipulated by
the biographers or family members to conform to the astrological expectations. This criticism
does not stand, however, given the large sample size (16,000), and that birth data was extracted
from the verified biographical sources. It also assumes in-depth familiarity with astrological
principles by the biography writers and families, who would have to know not only the meaning
of the planets but their effects in rising and culminating position.
Another criticism of Gauquelin‘s work was that he did not use binomial statistics
properly. He divided 24-hour birth period into 12, 24, and 36 sectors, and then compared the
number of births for each sector that were theoretically probable and those that actually took
place. Gauquelin did not compare the births in one sector against all other births, although he
corrected for the effects that time of the day may have had on the distribution of births.
Gauquelin‘s tests were independently replicated by the Belgian Committee for
Investigations into Phenomena that Are Repeatedly Paranormal—an organization generally
skeptical of paranormal claims. The committee repeated this test nine times, each time assigning
each champion the birth time of the next previous champion in the original sequence to test if
time had significance. The effects still remained with some probabilities of 5,000,000 and
1,000,000 to 1 (Cohen, 1973; Gauquelin, 1988), but the committee concluded that some other
compound factors may have influenced the results and they were therefore not to be used as
evidence of Mars effect.
Other researchers (Zelen, 1976) compared prominent people to ordinary people born on
the same day and ± 3 days to test if Mars effect is a random fact that applies to all born on the
same day and ±3 days. The observed number of sports champion‘s births with Mars rising or
21
culminating is significantly higher (p < .03) than the expected number calculated for
nonchampions born in the same place, for each of the ± 3 days considered.
Gauquelin‘s contribution to the scientific testing of astrology cannot be overestimated.
Although many other researchers have investigated astrology, the French scientist was the first to
systematically test many basic astrological claims, employ very large samples, and replicate his
results on the data collected in different countries. Gauquelin (1969) theorized that his findings
indicated an intricate system in which individuals chose the times to be born based on the
heredity and genes in accord with the natural universal forces at large. Although this conclusion
supports the view of the universe as one interconnected system, Gauquelin‘s insistence on fitting
it into the purely objective, positivist scientific model excluded other possible elements from
consideration. Ultimately, even the positive results of his research were either ignored or
outweighed by the negative ones.
The apparent influence of planets in rising or culminating position is not new in
astrological theory. Another French scientist, mathematician, and master astrologer Jean Baptiste
Morin (1974 version) in the 17th century outlined his criticism of many general principles of
astrology in Astrologia Gallica. He argued that the theory of general significators is a faulted
one. General significators is a term indicating the symbolic associations between the planets and
specific phenomena on Earth. For example, the Moon is believed to represent all women; the
Sun—men in position of power; Venus—the wives and lovers, and so on. Morin did not deny the
symbolic affinity between the planets and certain physical phenomena but logically showed that
it is not possible to use such generalizations in specific interpretations. He pointed out that if, for
example, the Moon in a man‘s chart represented all women in his life, it followed that all
interpretations about the lives of his daughter, mother, and wife should be the same. This,
22
however, contradicted both common sense and observation. Morin proposed his theory of
accidental significators, which is based on the placements of planets in specific houses of the
individual horoscope. Thus, in the man‘s chart, Morin would base interpretations about the
man‘s mother on the tenth house configuration, about the wife on the seventh house, and about
the daughter on the fifth house.
Morin (1974) approached astrology as science and based his critique of many dogmatic
tenets of astrology on observation, experience, and logic. He viewed planetary influences as
physical manifestations of the Divine laws but devoid of fatalism and determinism. In his
writings, Morin asserted that even people born simultaneously receive such influences differently
according to their state. The impact of family, nationality, religion, and free will all alter how
people respond to the planetary energies. This argument responds to the critique that astrology is
unreliable because even twins born at the same time have different lives.
Morin‘s theory has remained relatively unknown, as most of his original writings in
scholarly Latin were only recently translated to French and English. Although Gauquelin (1969)
mentioned Morin‘s impact as a prominent astrologer, he did not seem to be familiar with Morin‘s
astrological theories. When Gauquelin presented his findings on the significance of the planets in
rising and culminating positions, he unknowingly supported Morin‘s theory of accidental
significators with the empirical data.
Other researchers. Extensive but sporadic research concerning the predictive validity of
astrology has been conducted over the past 60 years. Only a few researchers (e.g., Coleman,
1991; Mayer, 1977; Mivtzari Weil, 2002) probed into the subjective experiences of people who
find astrology meaningful. Although a few dissertation and thesis attempted to show astrology‘s
subjective value (e.g., Coleman, 1991; Gaynor, 1981; Laster, 1976; Mayer, 1977, 1984; Mivtzari
23
Weil, 2002; Moffat, 1977; Tyson, 1979), the researcher came across only one study (Mayer,
1977; reviewed later in this chapter) that investigated how astrology is used to create meaning
and cope with life events. The phenomenon of meaning creation in itself is an important case for
psychology, and astrology‘s contribution may be in its symbolic and subjective meaningfulness
rather than its predictive validity.
Most quantitative studies, however, focus on general postulates of astrology and do not
offer concrete enough results appropriate for conclusive analysis. For example, some researchers
made a serious attempt to find correlations between mental disorders and time of birth. The
author did not come across the astrological theories that associate mental illness with the season
of birth. In the author‘s opinion, serious disturbances of mind and psyche are likely to be
associated with multiple factors in the chart that reiterate the themes of unbalance and distortion
and are associated with the challenging aspects between the outer planets (Uranus, Neptune, and
Pluto) and personal planets, in particular, the Sun and the Moon.
Interestingly, multiple studies (Dalen, 1988; Hare, 1975; Hare & Price, 1968; Hare,
Prince, & Slater, 1974) found that people born in winter have a significantly higher occurrence
of mental illness. Tentative explanations were offered to explain the findings: physical damage to
the neonate, protein deficiency during the pregnancy, and the possibility of poorer environmental
conditions during winter birth periods impacting important postnatal development. The studies
could not establish if potential confounding variables created such effects, nor could they show
specific correlations between astrological parameters and particular mental illnesses.
Another group of researchers investigated correlations between emotional disturbances
and phases of the Moon. In Western astrology, the Moon rules emotions and feelings in the
human psyche. The phases of the Moon are believed to have strong influence on emotional ups
24
and downs. Allegedly, it has been historically reported by police that during the full Moon phase
there is an increase of violence resulting in homicide or suicide. Lester, Brockopp, and Priebe
(1969) researched potential correlation between the completed suicides in New York during the
period between 1964 and 1968 and Moon phases. They found that there were more suicides
completed within a week of full Moon; however, the correlations reached statistical significance
in only 1 year. Pokorny and Jachimczyk (1974) did not find statistically significant correlation
between the Moon phases and 2, 613 homicide occurrences in Texas in the period between 1957
and 1970. Bouma and Tromp (1972) also did not find significant correlations between the Moon
phases and 10,000 suicide attempts in the Netherlands from 1954 to 1970. However, they found
significantly higher rates of attempted suicide by people born in February and March.
Bouma and Tromp (1972) have found positive correlation between the season of birth
and attempted suicide, but there have been no consistent results for the Moon phases and
increase of violence. One of the criticisms of astrology is its inconsistency in results replication,
which indicates astrology‘s unreliability and nonscientific nature (Dean & Kelly, 2003). The
reason for the inconsistency, however, is often rooted in other factors such as varying conditions
of the experiments, differences in definitions, or lack of in-depth familiarity with astrological
principles by the researchers, and in that there may be multiple causes of human conditions.
For example, several studies have attempted to find a correlation in large samples
between date of birth and profession. Cooper and Smithers (1973) analyzed birth data of 16,000
army officers, 2,303 artists, and 1,618 musicians. The birth dates were grouped into the four
seasons, with each season further divided into early, middle, and late periods. Expected birth
frequencies for the 12 periods were estimated from the Registrar-General‘s Annual Returns and
chi-square used to test for significance. The birth dates of army officers tended to concentrate
25
beyond chance in the periods from middle summer to middle autumn while fewer artists and
musicians than expected were born in these months. Peaks for artists and musicians tended to
occur in the winter and spring respectively. The authors offered possible explanations including
climatic and situational factors, and noted some agreement with astrological beliefs. Gauquelin
(1983), however, did not find correlations between Sun signs and profession. The 12 periods
Cooper and Smithers (1973) used in their study did not exactly coincide with the Sun signs used
by Gauquelin, which could be one of the reasons for the discrepancy in their results.
Many studies were conducted on Sun-sign effects on extroversion and introversion (e.g.,
Clark, Cabriels, & Barnes, 1996; Jackson & Fiebert, 1980; Mayo, White, & Eysenck, 1978). One
of the general postulates of popular astrology is that people born with the Sun in masculine signs
(Aries, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Sagittarius, Aquarius) tend to be more outgoing, independent and
extraverted, while those born with the Sun in the feminine signs (Taurus, Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio,
Capricorn, Pisces) are more sensitive, impressionable and introverted. Some studies (e.g.,
Cooper & Smithers, 1978; Mayo et al., 1978) showed positive statistical correlations between
extroversion, introversion, and Sun signs, while others (e.g., Jackson & Feibert, 1980) did not.
The most recent study by Clarke et al. (1996) researched the more specific hypothesis
that people born with the Sun, the Moon, and rising sign—the zodiac sign appearing on horizon
at the moment of birth—in masculine signs are more extraverted than those born with the Sun,
the Moon, and rising sign in feminine signs. It was found that people with both the Sun and the
Moon in masculine signs have significantly greater extroversion scores than the group with both
in feminine signs. However, there was no significant correlation between extroversion and
having the Sun, the Moon, and rising sign in masculine signs, or introversion and the Sun, the
Moon, and rising sign in feminine signs. The researchers concluded that astrological claims are
26
generally not supported in spite of finding positive correlation between the Sun and the Moon
placement and extroversion/introversion scores.
As can be seen from this overview of research literature, most studies of astrology‘s
validity have produced negative or conflicting results, reinforcing its dubious and controversial
position. The lack of consensus on general postulates of astrology seems to point to the
complexity and synthetic nature of the discipline. A need for a systemic approach to science has
been powerfully communicated by Maslow (1993):
the cause-effect way of thinking which works pretty well in the nonliving world and
which we have learned to use more or less well to solve human problems, is now dead as
a general philosophy of science. It shouldn‘t be used anymore because it just tends to lead
us in ad hoc thinking, that is, of one cause producing one specific effect, and one factor
producing one factor, instead of keeping us sensitive to systemic and organismic changes
. . . in which any single stimulus is conceived to change the whole organism, which then,
as a changed organism, emits behavior changed in all departments of life. (p. 73)
A systemic approach does not reduce any studied phenomenon to individual elements, but rather
treats it as a system of interconnected and interrelated parts. In application to astrology as well as
other disciplines that deal with human behavior, the holistic, systemic approach not only would
allow for a more comprehensive and accurate understanding of the studied phenomenon but it
would better utilize the nature of the studied discipline.
In spite of the scientific disapproval, astrology remains alive and popular. The subjective
meaningfulness of astrology has not been researched in a consistent manner, although the
psychological reasons for astrology‘s popularity have been investigated in a few studies. The
following section discusses their findings.
Psychological Roots of Belief in Astrology
A few studies have been conducted (e.g., Glick, Gottesman, & Jolton, 1989; Lillqvist &
Lindeman, 1998; Van Rooij, 1994) to research the psychological foundations of the belief in
astrology. Another goal of these studies was to investigate if such belief has positive
27
psychological effects on the subject. Most researchers cited above assumed that astrology had no
scientific validity. In spite of that, they agree that the belief in astrology is often utilized for
coping with stress and positive self-verification (e.g. , Glick, Gottesman, & Jolton, 1989;
Lillqvist & Lindeman, 1998) and some indicate that astrologers even play the role of the
psychotherapists by providing empathetic dialog and a meaningful framework for coping with
life‘s challenges (Lester, 1982).
For example, Lillqvist and Lindeman (1998) concluded that ―to the extent that it verifies
assumptions of self, astrological information seems to have the function of fulfilling the basic
need for self-comprehension in general and in a stressful situation in particular‖ (p. 207). Glick,
Gottesman, and Jolton (1989) suggested that belief in astrology is often linked with intolerance
of ambiguity, and believers were more likely to accept vague and even negative astrological
descriptions as accurate. While these findings indicate positive psychological effects of the belief
in astrology, the internal psychological processes of how astrology is used to find meaning or
cope with stress have not been investigated in a consistent manner.
Some researchers (e.g., Van Rooij, 1994) point out that belief in astrology can be linked
to ―self-attribution and selective self-observation‖ (p. 541). The mechanism of self-attribution
and selective self-observation is called the ―Barnum effect.‖ It means that people have a
tendency to believe that general and often vague descriptions of psychological traits apply to
them specifically. Several studies have demonstrated that the Barnum effect influences people‘s
acceptance of personality descriptions based on both astrological descriptions (Glick, Gottesman,
& Jolton, 1989) and psychological inventories and tests (e.g., Dickson & Kelly, 1985; O‘Dell,
1972; Word, 1996).

28
In application to astrology, Barnum effect means that the person may be influenced by
the description of his or her zodiacal sign, and selectively remembers situations when he or she
exhibits the described psychological trait. Glick, Gottesman, and Jolton (1989) conducted a study
of astrological skeptics and believers, and found that ―skeptics who received favorable
horoscopes became more positive in their opinions towards astrology‖ (p. 572). Interestingly,
believers considered a negative astrological description as accurate as a positive one.
Lillqvist and Lindeman (1998) conducted research to inquire into the psychological roots
of astrology‘s popularity. While considering astrology a pseudoscience, they hypothesized that
its use verifies one‘s self-concept, which leads to an affirmed sense of self-worth. Three groups
of participants were recruited from classes taught at the City of Helsinki Finnish-language Adult
Education Center in beginning astrology, psychology, and German courses respectively. During
the continuation of the courses, subjects rated themselves on categories such as their perception
of self, and amount of trauma and stress they had encountered. The research showed with
statistical significance (p < 0.03) that ―participation in an astrology course, but not in psychology
or German courses, verified the participant‘s self-concept by increasing the certainty of self-
descriptive attributes and the assumptions of self-control and perceived luck‖ (p. 207). The
sample used in the study was small (N = 50), and mostly represented by women, thus the results
may be biased. Nevertheless, they are consistent with other studies indicating that astrology‘s
popularity may be the result of its emphasis on positive psychological qualities, verification of
individual self-beliefs, and possible reduction of negative feelings linked with uncertainty (Glick
et al., 1989; Keinan, 1994; Padget & Jorgenson, 1982; Sales, 1973).
The second finding of Lillqvist and Lindeman (1998) was that an increased interest in
astrology correlates with an increase in the amount of stress in one‘s life. This was measured by
29
a questionnaire in which participants rated the presence and frequency of recent stressful events
such as: divorce, children leaving home, menopause, losing a job, and others. There was a
significant correlation (p < 0.5) in all three groups between stressful events and increased interest
in astrology. The authors concluded that ―based on predictability and controllability, astrology
seems to provide meaningful explanations for ambiguous and confusing phenomena, and to
increase the feeling of control, which is often lost in stressful situations‖ (p. 207). The correlation
between the meaningfulness of astrological information and the actual experiences, however,
does not imply that astrological factors cause these experiences. Rather astrology supports the
process of understanding stressful or ambiguous situations, and thus, astrology may be beneficial
for reducing uncertainty. Additionally, the belief in astrology seems to increase psychological
well-being and also may be useful for psychotherapists.
Lester (1982) proposed that astrologers and psychics provided services similar to
psychotherapy to those clients who did not wish to characterize themselves as having
psychological problems. In Lester‘s words:
Astrology is useful because it provides concepts and terminology that describe people‘s
life states and problems. It also provides a good medium for incorporating modern
psychological therapies. Both astrologers and psychics provided examples of advising,
increasing the client‘s self-esteem, preparing the client to face trauma, and empathic
dialog. (p. 56)
In other words, Lester suggests that astrology may provide a meaningful conceptual framework
for dealing with life‘s challenges and states that astrologers play the role of therapists by
supporting the client and providing empathetic listening and advising. The deeper connection
between astrology and psychology is reviewed in the next section.
Astrology and Psychology
Jung’s views on astrology. In spite of the controversial and often conflicting findings in
quantitative studies on astrology, some prominent psychologists used and attempted to validate
30
astrology empirically in their practice. Carl Jung, one of the most influential and respected
figures in modern psychological thought, paid close attention to astrology; throughout his career
he used astrology and attempted to validate it scientifically. Not only did he regard the subject
seriously, he openly expressed his nonconsensus opinions. In his letter dated September 6, 1947,
Jung (1969c) wrote:
Since you want to know my opinion of astrology I can tell you that I have been interested
in this particular activity of the human mind for more than 30 years. As I am a
psychologist, I am chiefly interested in the particular light the horoscope sheds on certain
complications in the character. In cases of difficult psychological diagnosis I usually get a
horoscope in order to have a further point of view from an entirely different angle.
(p. 475)
Jung believed that astrology should be studied and recognized by psychology, as it ―represents
the summation of all psychological knowledge of antiquity‖ (Wilhelm, 1962, p. 142). In spite of
the scientific view of his time, which regarded astrology as ―superstitious nonsense‖ (Howell,
1987, p. xxiv), Jung researched and used astrology throughout his professional life. It should be
noted that he did not believe in the predictive capacity of astrology; Jung saw it more as an
archetypal map of one‘s consciousness and unconsciousness.
For example, a Jungian astrologer (e.g., Hamaker-Zondag, 1990; Hyde, 1992) may
consider each planet as a symbol for a particular psychological archetype: the Moon for the core
emotional needs, the Sun as a symbol of self, Mercury for the style of thinking and
communicating, Venus for the mode of relating to others, Mars for desire and drive, Jupiter for
philosophical disposition, and Saturn for the sense of tradition and structure. The trans-Saturnian
planets, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, may be associated with collective psychological attitudes
and values.
Jung considered the symbols representing universal or archetypal experiences to be
powerful agents of healing. For example, one time Jung was able to help a young teacher who
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suffered from insomnia by humming a soothing lullaby Jung‘s mother used to sing to his
younger sister. Later Jung received the news from the patient‘s physician that the young woman
recovered from insomnia after just one session. Jung considered that the healing effect may be
produced by evoking of the universal image that connects personal experience to generally
human experiences, and even god‘s experiences, as symbolically presented in myths and fairy
tales (Hyde, 1992).
In his later years, Jung tried to validate astrology statistically by conducting an
experiment on a number of couples coming to his institute for therapy. He was looking to see if
specific astrological aspects were more likely to appear in the charts of married couples, because
he believed that ―marriage is a clear-cut fact‖ (Jung, 1973, p. 62). In astrology, aspects denote
geometrical relationships between the planets based on their location along the ecliptic and are
believed to have harmonious or disharmonious influence on character and relationships between
people.
Jung was not able to find statistically significant correlations between astrological aspects
and the birth charts of the couples, but to his surprise, he made a different discovery: the
psychological characteristics he perceived in the studied birth charts closely reflected his own
emotional state. It is possible that Jung was experiencing the Barnum effect by aligning his
subjective emotional experiences with the general astrological symbolism. He hypothesized that
when the experimenter had a strong emotional interest in the study, it brought up the
synchronistic relationship with the results. ―The psychic and physical event (namely, the
subject‘s problems and choice of horoscope) correspond, it seems, to the nature of the archetype
in the background and could therefore represent a synchronistic phenomenon‖ (Jung, 1973, p.
64). Jung‘s view on astrology shifted as a result. He doubted the mantic character of astrology,
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but was reassured as to the capacity of astrology to give meaningful descriptions of archetypes
and synchronicity.
Synchronicity, in Jung‘s theory, is a coincidental occurrence of two of more events that
form a meaningful connection, but which are causally unrelated. Jung believed that synchronicity
reflects a fundamental principle of correspondences between different kingdoms of the Universe,
from minerals, plants, and animals, to humans (Jung, 1973). Archetypes are patterns representing
fundamental themes in human experience, which are universal, abstract, and can manifest in
different forms. Jung (1969a) wrote:
From the unconscious there emanate determining influences which, independently of

tradition, guarantee in every single individual a similarity and even a sameness of
experience, and also of the way it is represented imaginatively. One of the main proofs of
this is the almost universal parallelism between mythological motifs, which, on account
of their quality as primordial images, I have called archetypes. (p. 58)
Jung believed that archetypes are psychoid—dual in nature—that they exist in the psyche
and in the physical world; not only do they organize human behavior, but are contiguous with the
laws governing organic matter. The archetypes are components of the collective unconscious—a
reservoir of the experiences of humankind (Jung, 1969c, 1973). Jung (1969a) stated:
In addition to our immediate consciousness, which is of a thoroughly personal nature and

which we believe to be the only empirical psyche (even if we tack on the personal
unconscious as an appendix), there exists a second psychic system of a collective,
universal, and impersonal nature which is identical in all individuals. This collective
unconscious does not develop individually but is inherited. It consists of pre-existent
forms, the archetypes, which can only become conscious secondarily and which give
definite form to certain psychic contents. (p. 43)
Jung‘s view on the dual nature of archetypes may be compared to the basic astrological premise
that planetary influences manifest in the physical world as events, and in the psyche as
psychological dynamics.
Jung (1969a) distinguished a few fundamental archetypes, most of which are represented
in astrology‘s symbology. For example, the mother archetype correlates to the principle of
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mothering and nourishing, and is associated with the Moon in a horoscope. The anima archetype
represents female aspect in male unconsciousness, and is symbolized by the feminine planets, the
Moon and Venus, in a man‘s horoscope; conversely, the animus, or male aspect in female
unconsciousness is symbolized by the masculine planets, the Sun and Mars, in a woman‘s
horoscope (Hamaker-Zondag, 1990). In the following section, I review other connections
between Jung‘s theory and modern psychological astrology.
Modern psychological astrology. Jung‘s ideas and interest in astrology significantly
influenced modern Western astrology toward a less deterministic, more humanistic, and more
psychological orientation. A new group of psychologists and theorists of astrology such as Dane
Rudhyar, Stephen Arroyo, Zipporah Dobins, Liz Greene, and others have attempted to shift
astrology from a conceptual framework of determinism, toward the perspective that astrology
can be used as a map of evolving consciousness.
Rudhyar (1976)—a pioneer in psychological approach to astrology—detailed how the
natal chart sheds light on the process of individuation—process of integrating one‘s personality:
Astrology . . . presents to an evolving personality, perhaps groping in

unconsciousness and psychological immaturity, the archetype of his potential
selfhood—that which he will be, if he becomes what he potentially is. An
archetype is like a seed: the potentiality of a particular structure of organic being.
The seed may never grow into a fully developed plant. But if it does grow, it will
become in actuality what the seed contains in potentiality. Astrology deals only
with potentiality; never with a definite or fated event. (pp. 29-30)
The writer considered the astrological chart as an archetypal map of individual potential, and
denied its deterministic character. Rudhyar proposed using transits and progressions in astrology
as symbolic markers of important cycles in personal evolution.
Rudhyar (1971) emphasized the importance of astrology for finding meaning.
Meaningfulness is defined as passing through a number of phases which, related one to

the other, become the frame of reference for whatever happens in your life. Showing man
the meaningfulness of his life is the most important thing that astrology can do. (p. 4)
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The writer pointed out that astrological language is particularly suitable for deriving multiple
meanings and interpretations because it is symbolic and metaphoric.
Liz Greene, a well-known British Jungian analyst and astrologer, made a major
contribution to the development of psychological astrology by unfolding the meaning of each
astrological archetype through mythical amplification. She considered mythic images the ―self-
portrayals by the psyche of its own processes‖ (Greene & Sasportas, 1992, p. 3). Myths are also
potent metaphors in understanding astrological symbols. In Greene‘s words, ―myths are not only
images of life-patterns, but are also modes of perception which color the individual‘s way of
seeing and experiencing his life. Therefore they appear, both inside and outside, as qualities of
soul and as worldly events‖ (Greene, 1984, p. 242).
Myths are important for a meaningful life as they represent universal archetypal qualities
permeating life experiences or, in Jung‘s (1968) words, they are ―first and foremost psychic
phenomena that reveal the nature of the soul‖ (p. 6). Myths represent the meaning of
fundamental human experiences and rites of passage in an allegoric yet comprehensible form. As
Greene (Greene & Sasportas, 1992) summarized it, ―myths have the mysterious capacity to
contain and communicate paradoxes, allowing us to see through, around and over the dilemma to
the real heart of the matter‖ (p. 8). They provide a healing function by implying commonality to
human suffering, while at the same time instilling hope, meaning, and solutions to internal
struggles.
Zipporah Dobyns (1973), one of the first proponents of integration between psychology
and astrology, emphasized the importance of humanistic psychological approach to astrology as
opposed to what she considered a ―materialistic‖ or deterministic one. The psychological
astrology Dobyns practiced was based on the belief in the individual‘s self-determination and
35
power to choose as opposed to being a passive recipient caught in the ―web of cosmic forces‖ (p.
3). Dobyns associated a deterministic approach with traditional ancient astrology, on one hand,
and materialistic world-view, on another.
Traditional Western astrology, however, does not deny free will or the individual‘s ability
to choose. Instead, it aimed to guide the individual how to align his or her will with the Universal
forces at large (Lilly, 2004 version; Plato, 1961 version). Comparatively, traditional astrology
attributed more power to the Universal influences and planetary forces than modern
psychological astrology would. Dobyns advocated using astrology as a map to a meaningful self-
empowering and self-determining human life, and rejected traditional notions of planetary
dignities or ―bad‖ and ―good‖ influences that determine individual character and destiny.
In her work with psychological astrology, Dobyns (1973) used the astrological alphabet
to symbolically access the essential psychological motivations that dominate the individual‘s
character and, thus, determine his or her life. The astrologer synthesized the symbolic meaning
of the chart as a whole, looking for repeating themes which represented prominent psychological
dynamics. In her analysis, she used astrological elements, aspects, houses, and planets, as
representing an organic and complex whole. For example, Dobyns analyzed a man‘s chart with
strong fire earth emphasis. The astrologer distilled this person‘s intense need to be productive
and creative, and to make impact on the physical world, but saw a potential for ―pushing too
hard‖ and problems with authority figures based on the repeated Mars Saturn connections by
sign and aspect (p. 30).
Grant Lewi (1969), an astrologer who popularized this discipline in the United States,
contributed to psychological astrology by placing great emphasis on free will in his writings. The
writer pioneered nondeterministic interpretations of planetary transits that offered his readers a
36
potential spectrum of positive and negative manifestations with an opportunity for psychological
and spiritual growth. Lewi reinstated astrology‘s significance in man‘s search for self-
understanding, meaningfulness, and happiness. He stated, ―the endurance of astrology is one of
the surest indexes of the value man places on himself and his destiny‖ (p. 5).
Stephen Arroyo (1975), a well-known writer on the subject of psychological astrology,
employed astrology as a tool for spiritual and psychological growth. In his books, Arroyo argued
the importance of astrology, as a holistic system, which provides access to underlying forms or
archetypes of life, and thus supports the processes of finding meaning and creating order out of
chaos. Arroyo stated:
Astrology provides a pattern of growth and development that is far superior to any other
psychological tool. It indicates what one should be working on, the essential meaning of a
particular experience or phase of life, what inner patterns one is coming to terms with, the
approximate duration of any particular phase of experience, and an accurate way of
timing crucial changes in life. (p. 54)
Arroyo pointed out the spiritual value of astrology as a system that provides access to the
Universal framework of cycles and periodicity, encourages patience, self-confidence, and
detachment from ego-centered perspective, indicates areas for growth and learning, and, for
counselors, provides symbolic representation of unconscious feelings and thoughts.
Donna Cunningham (1988) proposed to use astrology as a diagnostic tool in combination
with alternative healing techniques like homeopathy, energy work, flower essences, chakra
cleaning, and others. During her 35-year career as an astrologer and social worker, Cunningham
became dissatisfied with merely descriptive information that can be derived astrologically and
offered to clients; instead she looked for solutions and methods that would aid healing. The
writer used an astrological chart to identify psychological issues needing attention and then
applied the homeopathic principle that ―like cures like‖ in their treatment.
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Demetra George (1986) significantly contributed to the understanding of reemerging and
expanding feminine archetypes, astrologically represented by the asteroids: Pallas Athena, Juno,
Ceres, and Vesta. The asteroids were discovered in the early 1800s but, according to George,
their archetypal meanings were dormant until cultural shift in women‘s roles and position in the
society which took place in course of the 20th century. George stated:
Before the use of the asteroids, the only significators of the feminine in traditional chart
interpretation were the Moon and Venus. The socially acceptable roles for women were
the Moon as mother and Venus as mate. This began to change when the first four
feminine named asteroids were discovered in the nineteenth century as the women‘s
movement, led by Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton, sought to increase
women‘s participation in the society. These seeds did not bear fruit, however, until the
early 1970‘s . . . At this point, the new aspects of feminine expression fully entered into
the consciousness of humanity. (p. 2)
George viewed the asteroids as symbolic representations of the expanding and intricate feminine
archetypes previously dormant in the collective unconsciousness but now activated.
The emergence of feminine principles had significance not only for women; rather it was
characterized by the changing gender roles, with women transcending the traditional roles of
mothers and mates, and becoming actively engaged in the professional fields previously
dominated by men. The new qualities of creative intelligence and warrior nature were
symbolically associated with the mythological meaning of the asteroid Pallas Athena. At the
same time, men transformed their responses to women, and were able to embody more feminine
principles, by accepting their sensitivity, and assuming roles previously reserved to women, such
as that of house husbands, single or two male parents, and others. The principles of nurture and
mothering symbolically associated with the meaning of the asteroid Ceres became available to
men.
Mythological meanings associated with the astrological symbols have significance for
psychologists, according to George (1986). She stated:

38
Through knowledge of mythology, the therapist, astrologer, or counselor can recognize

archetypal fixation and point the way to liberation. Using the planetary myths as a guide,
the therapist can discover the nature of the client‘s blockages and facilitate the healing
process to its natural and harmonious conclusion. Hence, the birth chart provides the
diagnosis, the myth and the cure. (p. 15)
George shared other psychological astrologers‘ opinion that the astrological chart is a useful
symbolic diagnostic tool.
Noel Tyl was one of the first writers who integrated psychological need theory into
astrological analysis. Tyl (1974) exemplified how major psychological theories can be used in
astrological analysis of the charts. For example, he connected needs theories pioneered by
influential psychologists such as Maslow and Murray with astrology by proposing that each
planet represents an existing psychological need in accord with its nature and house placement.
An astrologer or psychologist familiar with astrology may get a symbolic representation of
prominent needs/dynamics that individual seeks to fulfill and express. For example, Mercury will
symbolize the needs of the mind, Venus, the needs of the emotions, Mars, the needs for energy
expression, and so on. During his almost 35-year engagement with astrology, Tyl has written
many volumes that integrate modern advances in psychology with astrology with the special
emphasis on concrete, easy to follow techniques for using astrological symbolism for effective
therapeutic counseling.
In conclusion of this section, modern Western psychological astrology strongly
influenced by Jungian ideas and further developed by theorists like Rudhyar, Greene, Dobyns,
Arroyo, George, and others focuses on human potential represented in a symbolic form. This
makes it more relevant for transpersonal psychology and psychotherapy.
Using astrology in conjunction with psychotherapy. The usage of astrology in
psychotherapy is a relatively new field of exploration, given the controversial findings on
astrological validity. There is no research on how many psychologists use astrology, either
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openly or privately, in their practice. However, a few books and dissertations have been written
on the subject of the positive relationship between astrology and psychology (e.g., Bader, 1997;
Bogart, 1996; Mayer, 1977, 1984; Mivtzari Weil, 2002). These publications indicate a
continuing interest in the topic, and provide qualitative and anecdotal evidence on how astrology
is used in psychotherapy.
For example, Mivtzari Weil (2002) researched the lived experiences of psychotherapists
who use astrology in their practice. The four participants in her phenomenological study—all
licensed psychologists with at least 20 years of counseling experience—reported that astrology
enhanced their work in multiple ways. Although all participants revealed having intense feelings
and apprehension about criticism from the mental health community about using this
controversial approach, they felt they are providing a better service to their clients by using
astrology in their practice. According to the psychotherapists, the majority of their clients (about
80%) also felt positive and receptive to it. All four study participants viewed astrology as a
symbolic but powerful tool for getting access to the psychological archetypes operating in the
client‘s life, and for dealing with issues of transference and countertransference. In addition, they
felt that the chart often helped them to move past periods of stagnation in the therapy process by
offering a different perspective or additional information.
For instance, one of the participants gave an example of a client with whom she had
difficulty communicating. When the psychologist compared her own chart to that of the client,
she saw that her planet Mercury—a symbol of mind and communication in astrology—was
placed in a different element than her client‘s. In astrological symbolism, the elements represent
fundamental psychological archetypes of functioning. The psychotherapist‘s Mercury was in the
Air element, indicating her tendency to think and communicate in more abstract terms, whereas
40
her client‘s Mercury was in the Water element, which indicated her emphasis on feelings and
sensation. Getting this information from the chart provided the therapist with a different
perspective on how to communicate with the client more effectively, and to improve their
therapeutic work (Mivtzari Weil, 2002).
All the participants in Mivtzari Weil‘s (2002) study believed that the study of astrology
could enhance psychology deeply, not only by providing additional information, but by
introducing a transpersonal aspect into the session. For Weil, the term transpersonal indicates
recognition of a broader, spiritual context in the clients‘ experiences. They believed that the
astrological chart served as a third entity in the room representing the larger whole. The
psychotherapists also reported that for them it was easier to maintain hope for the clients amidst
difficult situations by finding archetypal meaning and a broader frame of reference represented
in the chart. Some of the therapists consulted the chart for additional information, which they
shared with the client if he or she was open to it. One therapist used it as a symbolic tool, similar
to the sand tray, by introducing an image from the chart, and asking the client what associations
and feelings it brought to mind. All psychotherapists agreed that astrology was not for every
client, and avoided using it with people who did not possess strong ego boundaries, suffered
from addictions, or were borderline for fear of making them overly dependent on, or influenced,
by the chart.
The phenomenological study described above only focused on the experiences of the
psychotherapists and not of their clients. Thus it represented only one side of the story.
Additionally, the number of participants was quite small, but phenomenological themes present
in the study echo experiences of other psychologists as described below.

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For example, the theme of dependence on the astrological chart is mentioned by other
psychologists who use astrology in their practice. Claudia Bader (1997) explored questions such
as how one can maintain independence from the chart while receiving the benefit of information
inherent in it. In her experience people may identify too strongly with the chart, believing that it
has all the answers and thus avoid taking responsibility for their actions. Mivtzari Weil (2002)
gave the following personal example to illustrate this point:
There have been times in my life when I have clung to my chart as a soothing object that
would carry me through a rough period. I tried to gain insights and information about the
nature of what I was experiencing. I also saw the chart as an object that contained all of
who I am when a certain event caused me to feel fragmented. There were also times that I
never thought about the chart and did not look at it. (p. 80)
In other words, the chart could serve as an object of integration and support for the client in
times of stress and ego fragmentation. Negatively, it could be used to relinquish personal
responsibility. Bader also emphasized the value of symbolism embedded in the chart, and uses it
in conjunction with art therapy in her practice.
Glenn Perry (2005), a psychotherapist and a proponent of using astrology in psychology,
valued the transpersonal quality of psychological astrology that established the symbolic link
between psyche and cosmos. He emphasized the nondeterministic quality of modern
psychological astrology that is
both a personality theory and a diagnostic tool. As a personality theory, it reveals how the
structure and dynamics of the psyche are mirrored in external conditions that provide a
stimulus to psycho-spiritual growth. And as a diagnostic tool, it provides unparalleled
insight into the underlying, characterological issues that produce the external conditions
that cause suffering. Perhaps the horoscope is best understood as an unfolding story in
which fate is altered by the development and unfoldment of character. (n.p.)
Perry suggested that an astrological chart provided a holistic representation of the individual
psyche with all its internal conflicts and potentials, and as such may be invaluable for
42
psychologists. He saw the goal of psychotherapy in helping the client to realize his or her
potential symbolized in his or her horoscope.
Greg Bogart (1996), a psychotherapist and astrologer, presented a concise and clear
summary of how astrology may be helpful in psychotherapy. He saw the value of astrology in its
diagnostic capacity offering symbolic representation of the important themes in the client‘s life.
The astrological map also gives access to a person‘s unconscious patterns of thinking and
feeling, and may help the client to see the larger picture and find the meaning in his or her
experience. Finally, it may help client with spiritual growth and awakening. Bogart stated:
I believe astrology will one day be raised up to a position of respect in our culture once
again and that it will be routinely used by psychotherapists and others engaged in the care
of souls. In my opinion, practicing psychotherapy without referring to the astrological
birth chart is like trying to study biology without a microscope, or like climbing Mt.
Everest without a map. The birth chart is a uniquely accurate means of understanding the
inner world and subjective experience of a person, and offers the most individualized
road map available of the path of transformation. (p. 84)
Bogart stressed the value of astrological information for accessing the subjective and internal
experiences of the client—the point of view central to the conducted study.
In discussing potential contraindications for using astrology in conjunction with
psychotherapy, Bogart (1996) pointed out that therapeutic astrology should be used in a process-
oriented way where both the therapist and the client construct the meaning of the astrological
symbolism via dialogue rather than disempowering monologue. Since one of the reasons for the
repudiation of astrology was that it seemingly took away the locus of control and allowed people
to relinquish personal responsibility, it is important that the therapist does not present
astrological information in a static and dogmatic manner.
In his later works, Bogart (2002) emphasized the importance of astrology for finding
meaning. He wrote that ―astrology is the path of harvesting meaning from events, consuming life
experience as food, even difficult experiences‖ (p. 6). Bogart suggested that astrological
43
symbolism helps one to move through life experiences with consciousness, and viewed the
astrological chart as a point of centering, ―a mandala, representing the wholeness of the psyche,
the totality of all we are and can potentially be‖ (p. 7). Bogart proposed active reflection on the
deepest meaning of astrological symbols, with the intention to find and manifest the highest
potential represented therein. He pointed out that astrology should be used as a guide to actively
living one‘s life, not as an oracle holding power over a generally passive individual.
Bogart (2002) suggested ―symbol amplification‖ (p. 91) as a potent method of finding
meaning and growth that is similar to pondering the symbolism of dreams. Bogart suggested the
following steps in this process: noting the associations with a selected astrological symbol,
reflecting on the underlying emotions that the symbol evokes, and pondering its significance and
intention. He wrote:
Identify a natal planetary placement, or aspect, or some current transit. Pause and
consider the possible meaning and intention of this symbol. Amplify the symbol, name
your associations to it, your emotional responses, your fears about it, your sense of the
possibilities it holds for you. Use derived house analysis to illuminate other levels of
meaning you might have not noticed at first glance. Through the technique of symbol
amplification, chart interpretation becomes a form of deep meditation revealing infinite
meanings. (p. 91)
Symbol amplification helps to discover the individual meaning of each symbol for the client
through a process of deep reflection and meditation.
Mayer (1977, 1984) presented an in-depth exploration of the symbolic and metaphorical
value of astrology for finding meaning and discovering one‘s unique identity. Since Mayer‘s
work closely relates to and precedes this study, it merits a detailed discussion. Mayer proposed
that astrology was a complex premodern identity system suitable for describing a holistic
language of personality, as opposed to the categorical, deterministic, or sickness based
approaches (also critiqued by other theorists like Antonovksy [1979]) (p. i). In Mayer‘s (1984)
definition, a holistic system of identity should provide: (a) a descriptive framework that is not
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atomized but allows a view of each personality as whole and unique; (b) a way to experience
new meaning; (c) a system that allows relating one‘s way of being to a wider whole (p. 39).
Mayer showed that when astrology is used symbolically and metaphorically, it fits these criteria.
Putting aside the ontological question of astrology‘s objective validity, Mayer showed its
subjective usefulness in redefining one‘s identity as unique and whole, and recognizing the
meaningfulness of each unique personality trait including the socially undesirable ones.
Mayer (1977) cited an example of his client who suspected that she had schizophrenia
because of her unusual pattern of communication with others. The client had lost contact with
her partners and friends when she continued to free associate the particular words she singled out
in a conversation. Consequently, the client felt rejected when others showed signs of discomfort
or did not make efforts to understand her. In the process of psychotherapy, Mayer introduced
some of the symbols from the client‘s astrological chart upon the client‘s request. The work with
the symbols and their deep understanding led the client to accept her way of communication as
meaningful rather than undesirable and unacceptable. The client realized that her pattern of
communication reflected an earlier childhood experience when she had felt unheard by her
father. As a way of protecting herself from perceived rejection, the client started to assert her
ways of thinking onto others while losing contact with them. During the course of
psychotherapy, the client gained more awareness of her feelings and experiences in the moment
which, in turn, led to a transformation of her style of communication with others and an
increased sense of self-acceptance and wholeness.
In The Mystery of Personal Identity, Mayer (1984) discussed how astrology can aid
psychotherapy. First, astrology gives the client permission to be her or himself; second, it
crystallizes what the client‘s unique way of being is; third, it aides in transforming the client’s
45
self-perception and behavior; and, fourth, it leads the client to a new experience in his or her
life’s meaning (p. 145). Mayer‘s (1977, 1984) unique contribution is in his symbolic approach to
astrology with the emphasis on astrological metaphor‘s ability to transform meaning, to awaken
wonder, and to heal. This approach may be acceptable even to skeptics, as it does not argue the
causal relationship between the cosmos and man, nor does it assume the existence of mythical or
synchronistic correlations between the stars and human behavior (as does the Jungian approach).
Both causal and synchronistic approaches are based on the belief in the existence of a hidden
reality, while Mayer‘s approach is rooted in the ―meaning reorganization point of view‖ (Mayer,
1984, p. 211) which doesn‘t preclude that a hidden reality may exist; however the emphasis is
placed upon the reorganization of meaning.
Mayer (1977, 1984) integrated the Jungian use of symbols with the method of focusing
on the body felt sense pioneered by Gendlin (1962). In this method, the unique meaning of
astrological symbols is derived from focusing on the client‘s felt experience in response to
astrological symbols. The deep experience of the symbol enables new meaning to come to the
fore (Gendlin, 1962; Jung, 1958). Mayer (1977) proposed that ―the elements of astrological
system, being symbols, allow for new meaning to be experienced in relation to one‘s personality
qualities‖ (p. 100).
This study contributes to the exploration of symbolic meaningfulness of astrology by
employing a phenomenological method as developed by Giorgi (1985, 1989, 1997). The
phenomenological method uses narratives obtained from the participants during open-ended
interviews. The narratives are broken into meaning units, which are analyzed and reduced
phenomenologically to the essential elements summarized in the situated structures of meaning.
The situated structures are compared and reduced to a general structure, containing the key
46
themes common to all or most situated structures and representing the essential structure of the
studied phenomenon. The phenomenological method is presented in detail in Chapter 3.
Although the information presented in this section only reflects personal opinions and
research of a small amount of psychologists, the similarity in their experiences suggest some
relevance, and indicates that further research on astrology‘s usefulness for psychology would be
valuable. The existing research suggests (Lillqvist & Lindeman, 1998) that the use of astrology
may provide validation for some individuals by verifying their self-concept, and often helps
coping with stress by reducing uncertainty. From the perspective of Jungian theory, the
astrological chart could be used as a source of archetypal psychological information and as a
map of potential psychological growth not otherwise available to a therapist.
The transpersonal aspect of using astrology should also be noted: the chart can be used in
psychotherapy as a compass of unfolding spiritual awakening or crises, or conversely, as an
indicator of distress. Since astrology is informational in nature it cannot be compared to the
process-oriented therapeutic modalities, but could serve as a symbolic tool enhancing them. The
use of astrological symbolism could be compared to the use of sand tray or art therapy where the
client projects his or her own meaning onto the emerging images. Empirical studies (e.g., Janoff-
Bullman, 1992; Park, Edmondson, Fenster, & Blank, 2008) show that the process of finding
meaning positively relates to psychological well-being. This study looked into how meaning is
created through astrology in a way that promotes psychological growth and well-being.
Ethical considerations and potential problems in using astrology with psychotherapy.
There are potential ethical and practical problems with the use of astrology in psychotherapy.
Astrology is not for every client even if the client is open to using it. According to Bogart (1996),
astrology will not benefit clients who do not possess enough ego strength to use it appropriately
47
and without too much dependency. He considered it inappropriate and potentially dangerous to
use it with clients who show ―evidence of avoidance, escapism, dissociation, magical thinking,
or any other thought disorder,‖ (Bogart, 1996, p. 92) including the severe mental disorders. The
lack of clear, realistic world perception may lead to submitting to the chart‘s patterns and
predictions and not taking responsibility for one‘s actions. Bogart concluded, ―therapeutic
astrology . . . is best indicated for clients with a relatively resilient, stable, cohesive sense of self
who do not exhibit obvious signs of psychopathology‖ (Bogart, 1996, p. 97).
Mayer (1984) discussed a few important challenges of using astrology in psychotherapy.
Astrology is often viewed as a deterministic system that denies free will and revokes the sense of
responsibility for one‘s life. Mayer argued that even if astrology was approached as a
deterministic and categorical system it may benefit the client, if used to discover the essence of
one‘s behavior. Such insight may allow the client to make changes and alter undesirable
behavior. Another problem is that astrology may be used to make excuses for one‘s neuroses or
dysfunctional behavior. Mayer proposed the symbolic use of astrology that allows the client to
find meaning in his or her experience. In his words,
By using it [astrology] symbolically, one can shift the orientation from an interpretive
orientation as the why one is the why one is, to the process orientation involved when
using a symbol to explore how one is the way one is. (p. 169)
Symbolic systems may not be a suitable psychotherapy tool for some groups of clients,
such as individuals with psychotic disorders for they may overidentify with symbols, or
introverted neurotics with an overdeveloped inner world of fantasy, or people who use astrology
as signs rather than symbols. Mayer suggested using caution in using symbols so they would not
lead the client away from external realities. He used focusing techniques to ensure that the client
stays in the present and experiences the symbol rather than rationalizes it.
48
Mayer discussed that astrology like any descriptive framework maybe used to categorize
a person and thus limit his or her uniqueness. He pointed out that the therapist may counteract
this limitation by staying in the moment, and encouraging a process of uncovering new meaning
rather than seeing the client in categorical terms. Finally, Mayer addressed the issue of
dependency upon the therapist—an issue important in all forms of psychotherapy. He cited from
his own experience that when he felt that the client was asking for more information about
something they had already explored by themselves, that giving such information would not be
building the client‘s dependency. If the client was asking for an interpretation of their
experience, Mayer invited them to answer that question for themselves by exploring the symbol
and focusing on their felt experience. This process led the client to answer the question on her
own.
An additional problem may exist when psychologists use astrology to empower
themselves, rather than their clients. Perry (1997) pointed out that some therapists may want to
offer direct advice and solutions based on their astrological knowledge to a client in distress,
rather than foster their client‘s autonomy in dealing with the stressful events.
Aside from ethical misuses of the tool, psychologists who wish to bring astrology into
their practice face additional challenges. According to Mivtzari Weil (2002), such practitioners
often face the mistrust and disapproval of the mental health community. Many psychologists
who use astrology in psychotherapy often mention the potential problem of transference (e.g.,
Bader, 1997; Borgart, 1996; Perry, 1997). The introduction of astrology into therapy may
increase even further the idealization of the therapist as powerful, wise, and holding all the
answers for those clients who believe in it. Conversely, it may impair the therapist‘s reputation in
the eyes of the clients and colleagues who do not believe in astrology.
49
Transpersonal psychology and astrology. Transpersonal psychology and astrology have
much in common. According to a definition in the Journal of Transpersonal Psychology,
transpersonal psychology is ―the study of humanity‘s highest potential and with the recognition,
understanding, and realization of intuitive, spiritual, and transcendent states of consciousness‖
(Lajoie & Shapiro, 1992, p. 79). Transpersonal psychology goes beyond and through the ego into
the realm of spirit by examining mystical experiences and seeking the integration between mind,
body, and spirit. Transpersonal psychology also studies the altered states of consciousness,
religious and spiritual experiences, and spiritual emergence.
According to Walsh and Vaughan (1980), the term ―transpersonal‖ was adopted to
include an investigation of experiences that extend beyond personality or individuality into the
realm of consciousness disciplines and spirituality. Transpersonal psychology is an ―inquiry into
the essential nature of being‖ (p. 16). Walsh and Vaughan offer the following definition:
Transpersonal psychology is concerned with expanding the field of psychological inquiry

to include the study of optimal psychological health and well-being. It recognizes the
potential for experiencing a broad range of states of consciousness, in some of which
identity may extend beyond the usual limits of the ego and personality. (p. 16)
To reiterate, the purpose of transpersonal psychology is to include and investigate a broader
range of experiences than traditional psychology would.
Wilber (1980) pointed out that transpersonal psychology cannot be studied with the
methods designed for material realms because transpersonal psychology aims to investigate
experiences that belong to realms of consciousness and contemplation. Charles Tart, in contrast,
considers that higher states of consciousness can be studied by the empiric methods, only, if such
methods are freed from ―physicalistic bias,‖ or materialistic accretions (as cited in Wilber, p.
218). An interesting parallel exits between transpersonal psychology and astrology in that both
50
disciplines attempt to understand and explain experiences that belong to the realm of
consciousness, destiny, spirit, not just the physical realm.
Astrology may benefit transpersonal psychology in a number of ways. First, astrology
helps to reframe crises and challenging experiences in a broader sense, to derive a deeper
meaning and a spiritual essence from seemingly chaotic, unusual, or traumatic events. Bogart
(1996) pointed out that astrology is useful for understanding the cyclical nature of the important
life transitions and their timing. He stated:
Astrology always remains a tool for the temporal, embodied human being. Its horizon is
the ―eon,‖ the individual life cycle. It situates each event, including spiritual emergence,
within that biographical perspective. From an astrological view point, a spiritual
emergence crisis is not an end in itself, but appears as one moment within the larger life
cycle. What matters is the meaning one derives from the experience, and what the person
does as a result of it. (p. 218)
Thus, Bogart sees astrology as an invaluable tool for meaning finding. Bogart noted that,
curiously, transpersonal psychologists who would research nonordinary states of consciousness
(i.e., channeling, past lives, kundalini, spirit guides, and others) will distance themselves from
astrology. He calls for reexamining astrology and recognizing its therapeutic and spiritual value.
Many transpersonal theorists and researchers consider astrology valuable for
transpersonal psychology (e.g., Arroyo, 1975; Bogart, 2002; Grof, 2006; Tarnas, 2006). As was
discussed earlier, Carl Jung deeply valued the archetypal nature of astrology, and considered it
useful for psychology. Modern transpersonal theorists like Stan Grof (2006) and Richard Tarnas
(2006) also appreciated astrological wisdom in their writings, and connect astrological transits—
the effects of moving planets on individual and collective lives—to important shifts in personal
and collective consciousness. Richard Tarnas (2001) wrote in his article, An Introduction to
Archetypal Astrological Analysis:
Astrology makes possible a further understanding of one‘s life—its cycles, its ups and
downs, the crises and the breakthroughs, the periods of major change and transformation
51
—through the study of transits. Transits occur when the planets currently in the sky form
certain geometrical patterns with respect to the planetary positions at one‘s birth. The
nature of those patterns—which planets are involved and how they are positioned—
appears to correlate in a strikingly consistent way with the archetypal character of the
experiences one tends to have at that time.
In research that spans over 30 years, Tarnas and Grof (2009) found correlations between
nonordinary (holotropic) states of consciousness and archetypal forces of planets Saturn, Uranus,
Neptune, and Pluto. Grof discussed striking similarities between the four basic stages of the birth
process—termed BPMs (Basic Perinatal Matrixes)—and the planetary archetypes. For example,
the perinatal state of being in the womb (BPM I) corresponded with the symbolism of Neptune
for its sense of undisturbed intrauterine existence and dissolution of boundaries, on the positive,
and confusion, delusion, and intoxication, on the negative. BPM II is the stage when contractions
compress the baby, but the cervix is still undialated and there does not seem to be a way out.
This BPM corresponds with the symbolism of the planet Saturn and its qualities of pessimism,
loneliness, inadequacy, and hard work. BPM III—the state when the baby passes through the
birth canal—correlates to the symbolism of Pluto with its unrelenting, elemental driving force,
unleashing of titanic energies, and eruption. The final state, the emergence from the birth canal
(BPM IV) correlates to the symbolism of Uranus—breaking through and transcending
boundaries, liberation, and epiphany.
Some transpersonal theorists such as Ken Wilber and Arthur Hastings hold a more
skeptical position on the universal value of astrology. Wilber (2001), for example, theorized that
predictive astrology only worked for the believers, but not universally. Hastings‘ belief in
astrology as a personality system was undermined by recent studies that report negative
statistical results for astrological claims, although he recognizes the symbolic value of astrology
(personal communication, November, 2009).

52
The significant split between astrology‘s subjective validity, as expressed in its
continuous popularity, and often dubious or negative results of empirical research on astrology‘s
predictive validity support the necessity of more qualitative research on the symbolic and
subjective validity of astrology. This was my intention.
A Psychology of Meaning
As this study was concerned with the phenomenon of meaning finding, the concluding
section of this chapter presents an overview of theories and research on meaning creation.
According to the Webster‘s unabridged dictionary (1993), the term meaning has a few
denotations: the first indicates ―the thing one intends to convey especially by language;‖ the
second indicates an intention or an aim; the third—a significant quality; and the forth—‖the
logical connotation of a word or phrase‖ (p. 1399). Two main branches of research on meaning
focus first on language meaning or semantics, and second on meaning as intentionality or
significance. For the purposes of this study concerned with the significance aspect of meaning
finding, the research and theories of meaning as significance are presented.
Theoretical approaches. The review of literature on significance and process of finding
meaning reveals a vast amount of theoretical and philosophical works as well as empirical
research. Victor Frankl (1971), in his famous book Man’s Search for Meaning, laid down basic
principles of logotherapy—a school of existential psychotherapy that focuses on the meaning of
human existence and aims to help clients to rediscover meaning in their lives. Frankl posited that
finding meaning is an essential psychological drive, which he termed a will-to-meaning, and
traced some forms of neurosis to the failure of the sufferer to find meaning and a sense of
responsibility in his existence.

53
Frankl (1971) formulated principles of logotherapy in reflection of his own experience as
a concentration camp survivor during World War II. He observed that in the face of such severe
trauma prisoners often experienced uncertainty about the future, had no goals, lived in the past,
and experienced life as meaningless. Frankl quoted Nietzsche‘s idea that ―one who has a why to
live can bear with almost any how‖ (p. 121). Lack of goals and expectations from life usually led
to death or suicide attempt, in Frankl‘s view. The importance of having a goal in the future for
finding meaning in one‘s life and for psychological well-being is supported by a number of
researchers and theorists and is detailed below (e.g., Antonovsky, 1987; Klinger, 1998 ).
One of the basic premises of logotherapy is that man is not fully conditioned and
determined, and does not simply exist but always decides what his existence will be (Frankl,
1971, p. 206). Man has a choice and that constitutes the meaning of his life even if he is
impaired. These ideas echo the views of modern theorists of astrology who propose to use
astrology nondeterministically as a map for actualizing meaning of one‘s life (Greene, 1985;
Rudhyar, 1970).
Logotherapy considers three ways human beings find and experience meaning: by doing
a deed, experiencing a value like loving another human being, and suffering. In suffering, one
has the power and choice of his attitude towards the suffering. Frankl (1971) believed that
choosing how one bears his or her suffering is the ―last human freedom‖ (p. 104) that is never
lost. He considered the ultimate meaning as extending beyond logical understanding of one‘s
suffering. In his words, ―man is required not to endure the meaninglessness of life, but rather to
bear his incapacity to grasp its unconditional meaningfulness in rational terms. Logos is deeper
than logic‖ (p. 188). Logos is a Greek work that denotes ―meaning‖ and is the basis for the term
logotherapy.
54
Frankl‘s approach to the meaningfulness of life was transpersonal as he believed in the
broader, universal meaning that transcends intellectual understanding. Although his work was
mostly theoretical, it significantly contributed to the development of existential psychology,
pioneered the development of logotherapy, and inspired continuous scientific research on
meaningfulness and meaning creation.
This view of the meaningfulness of life transcending logical and intellectual
understanding is shared by Christine Hardy (1998). In Networks of Meaning, Hardy considered
the creation of meaning:
one of the most primordial characteristics of consciousness. The generation of meaning

is, in itself, an organizing process shaping reality, while the mind is, in turn, shaped by a
reality endowed with meaning. Attributing meaning is a mental act that pervades and
organizes all experience. (p. 11)
This view is phenomenological in that it considers the mind and reality as mutually determining.
Hardy proposed that people constructed their individuality and their ―universe of meaning‖ (p.
15) with concepts that form complex connections involving feelings, images, experiences,
words—the ―semantic constellations” (p. 15). Semantic constellations form a complex network
of interlacing elements, ―a low-level connective dynamic, the spontaneous linkage process‖ (p.
197). Each individual‘s unique life experiences and freedom of choice form a flexible and highly
divergent architecture of semantic constellations that ―amounts to heuristic knowledge and
adaptive intelligence‖ (p. 198). The creation of meaning is occurring in a context that not only
activates previous experiences but forms new links, connecting or modifying existing semantic
constellations or creating new ones.
A number of existential psychologists detailed new theories of meaning creation. For
example, Maddi (1998) considered future-oriented decision making a key in the development of
personal meaning. He related decision making to such major psychological qualities as

55
hardiness, existential courage, and faith. Maddi stated that the psychological needs for
symbolization, imagination, and judgment are unique to humans versus the biological or social
needs common to all species. Maddi (1998) defined symbolization as the mental act of
categorizing and interpreting experiences beyond their specific characteristics. Imagination is the
mental act of combining and recombining categories of experience in a manner that is beyond
their literal occurrences in the external world, and judgment is the mental act for evaluating the
experiences literal or imagined. These three psychological processes constitute ―the inherent
decision-making process‖ (p. 6) that affects human lives and gives them their special meaning.
Noteworthy, astrology is a suitable agent for fulfilling the needs outlined by Maddi, as it is
highly symbolic, imaginative, and offers categorization of one‘s experiences. Consequently,
astrology may be contributing to meaning making process.
For example, in the case of Mayer‘s (1977) client discussed earlier, the client reflected on
the symbolic meaning of the planet Mars in her horoscope. In astrological theory, Mars is
associated with energy and assertion. Paying attention to her felt body experience in response to
the discussion of Mars symbolism, the client realized that her assertive style of communication
with others was a way to protect herself from feeling rejected. The image of her father not
listening to her arose in her memory. The client decided to change her way of communicating
with others and to ensure she remains in contact with her partners. In Maddi‘s terms, the client
categorized and interpreted her experience in a manner that was beyond her literal experience,
and arrived at a new judgment of its meaning.
Klinger (1998) viewed the search for meaning and purpose as a biological mechanism of
survival, and an important motivational principle with important clinical implications. In his
theory, ―a biological system . . . without adequate goals would result in apathetic activity,
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inactive, and psychopathology‖ (p. xviii). Klinger proposed that ―motivational restructuring
associated with regaining meaning has a causal role in clinical improvement‖ (p. 46).
Medical sociologist Antonovsky (1979), in his influential theory of salutogenesis,
proposed that researchers should be studying the origins of health, rather than focusing on
disease or pathology alone. Antonovsky insisted on approaching the human organism as a system
where the sense of coherence is decisive in transitioning that system from chaos to order. He
defined the Sense of Coherence (SOC) construct—a dispositional orientation embedded within
an individual‘s personality structure and comprised of three core subconstructs:
comprehensibility, manageability, and meaningfulness. The Comprehensibility component is the
ability to understand the external experiences as making sense, ordered, and predictable. The
Manageability component is the individual‘s perception of having the necessary personal and
social resources to cope with the demands of life. The Meaningfulness component—considered
most important by Antonovsky—is the conviction that the life demands are worthy of investment
and commitment. If individuals‘ experiences are characterized by their ability to make decisions
and freely select the outcomes, in Antonovsky‘s view, a stronger sense of meaningfulness
develops. SOC has been shown to be important in stress reduction and resistance increase
(Korotkov, 1998).
Bieke and Niedenthal (1998) focused on how the search for individual meaning is related
to the process of comparing past and present self-concept. Self-concept is defined as the
descriptive component features of self. The authors concluded that self-evaluation—the
evaluation of self—was directly related to the comparison between past and present concepts of
self. Self-evaluation of meaningful living may be derived from such comparison as well. In other
words, Bieke and Niedenthal supposed that the sense of meaningfulness of life was connected
57
with positive or negative comparison between how the individual was in the past versus how he
or she is in the present. It is noteworthy that in astrological theory the Sun and its position in the
zodiac, aspects, and house placement in the horoscope symbolize the concept of self.
Park and Folkman (1997) theoretically distinguished two types of meanings: global and
situational, the first representing the general ideas about the world, its order, and purposefulness
of one‘s life, and the second representing the causal understanding of current stressful situations.
They theorized based on meta-analysis of the results of many studies that the adjustment to
stressful events was occurring when there was a readjustment between the global and situational
meaning. Those individuals who readjust these two usually integrate their experiences better and
are able to move on. If people are unable to meet their goals or make meaning but do not let go
of their beliefs, they tend to ruminate and experience depression.
Fingarette (1963) made an important distinction between the causal, hidden-reality theory
of meaning making, and a meaning reorganization point of view. The hidden reality approach
assumes that a particular experience in the past results in a generally fixed meaning in the
present. For example, the experience of rejection in love may be seen as a cause for the feelings
of self-doubt. In contrast, the meaning reorganization approach presupposes that people attribute
meaning to the past experiences from their present perspectives and mental schemas. In this way,
the same experience may be reinterpreted and given different meanings depending on the
perception and the changing view of reality. Fingarette did not deny the potential existence of
hidden reality meaning but rather emphasized the significance of the meaning reorganization
process.
To illustrate Fingarette‘s point of view, 1 of the participants of this study, discussed in
greater detail in Chapter 4, first attributed a negative literal meaning to a particular astrological
58
symbol in her chart. Later, as her perspective expanded, she interpreted the same symbol
positively as representing her previously unrecognized unconscious psychological need. The new
meaning was both psychologically fulfilling and illuminating for her.
Earlier I discussed the studies that indicate that astrology‘s popularity may be the result
of its emphasis on positive psychological qualities, verification of individual self-beliefs, and
possible reduction of negative feelings linked with uncertainty (e.g., Glick et al., 1989; Keinan,
1994; Padget & Jorgenson, 1982; Sales, 1973). These findings support the potential usefulness of
astrology for finding meaning as it verifies one‘s self-concept (Lillqvist & Lindeman, 1998), and
self-concept is connected with the process of finding meaning (Bieke & Niedenthal, 1998).
Empirical research. Some common ideas about the significance of meaning finding are
shared by different theorists and find support in empirical research. For example, theorists and
researchers generally agree that ―issues of meaning are central to dealing with and recovering
from highly stressful experiences‖ (Park, Edmondson, Fenster, & Blank, 2008, p. 863).
Consequently, the majority of studies on meaning finding have been conducted on individuals
who had adverse experiences, such as the loss of significant others, life-threatening diseases,
sexual abuse, and others.
For example, Park et al. (2008) researched meaning making and psychological
adjustments following cancer. Park et al. noted that previous studies have produced inconsistent
results on both meaning making processes and meanings made as determinants of adjustment.
The researchers attributed this inconsistency to variations across the studies in definition, design,
and theoretical foundations, and reported that ―cross-sectional and longitudinal path models of
the meaning making process indicate that meaning making efforts are related to better
adjustment through the successful creation of adaptive meanings made from the cancer
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experience‖ (p. 863). The researchers distinguished the process of meaning making and the final
meaning made, and concluded that only if satisfactory meaning was made would it allow the
individual to make a necessary psychological adjustment.
Yanez, Edmondson, Stanton, Park, Kwan, Ganz, and Blank (2009) investigated the
relationship between religiosity/spirituality and psychological adjustment to stress in a
longitudinal study. Their findings indicate that ―the ability to find and sustain meaning and peace
amid major health-related adversity is more protective against maladjustment than is religious
faith. Higher meaning/peace was related to better quality of life, and higher faith was unrelated
to outcome‖ (p. 730). The researchers distinguished and compared two components of spiritual
well-being (meaning making/peace and religious faith) and found that meaning making/peace
was related to decrease in depressive symptoms and a better psychological adjustment in breast
cancer patients than faith alone, although faith was related to perceived ―cancer-related growth‖
(p. 730). In other words, people who had religious faith alone did not adjust to the stressful
situation as well as those who actively sought and found meaning in their experience.
The participants in Yanez et al.‘s study (2009) who completed baseline and 6-month (n =
418) or 12-month (n = 399) assessments were included in analyses. The significant correlations
were found between FACIT-Sp (Functional Assessment of Chronic Illness Therapy—Spiritual
Well-Being Scale) scores and decrease in depressive symptoms (p < 0.0001) at 6 and 12 months
assessment, and higher vitality at 6 and 12 months (p < 0.0001). A correlation was found
between Faith scores and Cancer-Related perceived growth (p < 0.0001) but no significant
correlation between Meaning/Peace scores and Cancer-Related perceived growth.
Studies indicate that people generally perceive the world as ―just‖ (Davis & Nolen-
Hoeksema, 2001; Lerner, 1980) and their lives are predictable, ordered, and meaningful (Epstein,
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1991; Janoff-Bulman, 1989). Stressful experiences tend to violate such percepts; consequently,
psychological adjustment of beliefs is necessary for people to successfully re-integrate traumatic
experiences into their world view. Such adjustment is connected with making meaning out of the
difficult experience. For example, Draucker (2001) explored how women find meaning in the
experiences of sexual violence committed by men close to them. After initially adjusting their
perception of world to ―violent,‖ the women were able to find meaning in their experience by
becoming more active in pursing their own safety, ―taking justice into their own hands, and
making something good out of something bad‖ (p. 67).
Davis, Nolen-Hoeksema, and Larson (1998) in their study on making sense of loss
emphasized the importance of precise definition of meaning. The researchers investigated two
distinct conceptualizations of meaning: meaning-as-significance, and meaning-as-
comprehensibility. The first one indicates benefit an individual finds in an adverse situation, and
the second one correlates to making sense of the challenging occurrence. The authors explain:
Deriving benefit from loss or trauma is a key means of assigning positive value or
significance to the event for one‘s own life. Learning about one‘s strength in the face of
adversity, or gaining insight into the meaning of life or the importance of relationships,
may help to mitigate the feelings of loss or helplessness at the passing of a loved one.
Such perceptions may preserve or restore the notion that one‘s own life has purpose,
value, and worth, and several theorists have suggested that the perception that one‘s life
has goals and purpose is critical to self-esteem and well-being. (p. 562)
The results of their research indicated clear distinctions between two types of meaning and better
adjustment for those participants who found positive benefit from their loss.
From the point of view of current research, these studies clearly indicate the important
correlation between finding meaning in times of adversity and psychological well-being. When
astrology is used for finding meaning and coping with stress, as some studies suggest (Lillqvist
& Lindeman, 1998), it may contribute to psychological well-being. Additionally, some of the
common elements considered important for meaning creation are: the comprehensibility of the
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events, having a sense of goal, positive self-evaluation, a sense of manageability and orderliness,
and finding benefit even in the adverse experiences. Astrology as a symbolic and metaphoric
system supports these important processes by providing a larger framework, validating the
individual‘s self-concept (Lillqvist & Lindeman, 1998), and supporting the view of the orderly
Universe. Thus, the astrology‘s usefulness for finding meaning is reinforced for those who
believe in it.
Meaning and metaphor. The review of theories and research on meaning finding would
be incomplete if it did not include the discussion of metaphor and its special relation to the
process of constructing meaning. As astrological symbols may be viewed as metaphors for
interpreting one‘s experiences, the current section overviews theoretical and empirical
approaches to metaphor and discusses its similarity to the astrological language of symbols.
Aristotle, in Poetics, viewed metaphor as ―a sign of genius, since a good metaphor
implies an intuitive perception of the similarity in dissimilar‖ (as cited in Chiang, 2009, p. 41).
Aristotle‘s view inspired modern comparison theories that view metaphor as stylistic substitution
of the particular ideas that makes language more aesthetic rather than more meaningful. The
metaphor is seen is a mere function of language, and no significance is given to the ―intuitive
perception‖ Aristotle spoke of.
In contrast, interaction theory originated by Richards (1936) and furthered by Black
(1962) views metaphor as the interplay between the conceptual structures in the words in a
metaphor utterance that creates a new meaning. Mayer pointed out (1984) that this is one of the
criteria which makes astrology valuable as a holistic identity system. Interaction theory posits
that the creative, poetic aspect of metaphor conveys positive constructive influence on the human
mind. Ricoeur (1977) proposed a tension theory that identified a few ways of how new meaning
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is gained through the metaphor: first is the tension between two interpretations (i.e., the literal
idea, and the metaphor); second, the distance between two semantic fields to which the literal
idea and metaphor belong is shortened; and third, by the dynamic vision of reality that is made
possible within metaphor utterance (Chiang, 2009).
The researcher views astrological metaphor in light of interaction and tension theories.
The new meaning may be found by the interaction between the meaning of astrological symbols
and the perceptions of life experiences. For example, the researcher‘s interest in the
psychological phenomenon of meaning finding became clear when she reflected on the
symbolism of Jupiter (search for meaning, philosophy) in her horoscope. The importance of
experiencing new meaning rather than just intellectualizing about it was emphasized by Gendlin
(1958). Gendlin also considered the importance of symbol in this process, and spoke of two
dimensions of meaning: ―the formal relations of symbols and their relations to objects,‖ and ―our
experience of meaning‖ (p. 1).
Thus, if astrology is used metaphorically it may help in creating new meaning, and, as
Mayer (1977) argued, the astrological metaphor is more powerful than the ordinary metaphor
due to its globalness. Mayer stated, ―The astrological language adds beyond what simple
metaphor does by saying that the wider the whole from which one‘s personality is described, the
further the dimension of transpersonal meaning may be brought through‖ (p. 239). For example,
the correspondences between the elemental qualities of fire, air, water, and earth, and primary
psychological modes of functioning, such as intuition, thinking, feeling, and sensing would be
such metaphor connecting psychological characteristics with natural phenomena.

63
Summary of Literature Review
Currently a significant amount of quantitative research on astrology‘s validity has
produced predominately negative results (e.g., Clarke et al., 1996; Gauquelin, 1983; Pokorny &
Jachimczyk, 1974). These results may indicate that some of its theories are outdated or incorrect;
alternatively the differences in the operational definitions of the test variables may be
problematic. Positive findings (e.g., Fialkin & Beckman, 1938; Gauquelin et al., 1979) are
usually criticized, ignored, or outweighed by the negative results. Although astrology cannot
claim to be an exact science, it does not disqualify this discipline from being valuable, relevant,
or useful. Not all internal experiences such as subtle perceptions, sensations, or feelings, for
example, can be verified by the exact sciences, but they do not become nonexistent or invalid.
Astrology‘s continuous popularity attests to its subjective validity in the experiences of people
who use it. The conduced study focused on the subjective experiences of people who find
meaning in their lives with astrological symbolism. In broader terms, this study investigated
what role a complex system of symbols plays in the process of finding meaning. Additionally,
the conducted study viewed astrology from a different philosophical and methodological
perspective—one based on a systematic rather than a causal approach.
From the point of view of transpersonal psychology, astrology may serve as an important
spiritual and symbolic tool for working with clients by providing an archetypal map to their
consciousness. As transpersonal psychology attempts to study mystical experiences and accepts
the interconnectedness of spirit and matter, it may be enriched by astrology‘s symbolism, and
may even reestablish astrology‘s position in the ever-evolving scientific paradigm.
In addition, the research on meaning creation is predominantly quantitative. While
reviewing the existing literature, the author came across only one dissertation (Mayer, 1977) on
64
the phenomenology of meaning creation with astrological symbols. To fill this gap, this study
investigated the essence of internal, subjective experiences of meaning finding with a qualitative
phenomenological method, and it evaluated how astrology is used for that purpose. The next
chapter details the phenomenological method and this study‘s design.

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Chapter 3: Research Methods
More than 2000 years ago, Ptolemy pointed out that
astrology could not claim to be an exact science like astronomy, since astronomy dealt
exclusively with the abstract mathematics of the perfect celestial movements, while
astrology applied that knowledge to the necessarily less predictable imperfect arena of
terrestrial and human activity. (as cited in Tarnas, 1991, p. 83)
This point remains relevant today as astrology is generally considered a pseudoscience because it
cannot demonstrate exact results. However, astrology deals with the changeable nature of human
behavior, character, and experiences, both external and internal, and similar to other social
sciences like psychology and sociology, it cannot be reduced exclusively to objectively
identifiable and quantifiable variables.
Frankl (1988) discussed the idea of dimensional ontology—the analysis of a
multidimensional phenomenon from a dimension lower than its own may produce ambiguous
and contradictory results. The dimensional ontology occurs when research methods rooted in the
natural science paradigm and designed to test observable and quantifiable data are applied to a
multidimensional system of knowledge such as astrology.
The natural scientific approach to social disciplines has been criticized for its inability to
study internal, subjective experiences as opposed to external, observable behaviors. Although in
the past 50 years psychology as a science has expanded in its theories and research methods from
a purely behaviorist approach to a cognitive, and even existential humanistic perspective, the
natural scientific paradigm still remains predominant in application to psychological research.
Such an approach is concerned with the cause-and-effect (or stimulus-response) relationship
between two variables where one is tested for its influence on the other. In spite of recent
developments in psychology, which has moved from a stimulus-response analysis of behavior to
a stimulus-organism-response model, the main focus of today‘s research still remains the
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connection between observable and measurable variables and the resulting behaviors (Valle,
King, & Halling, 1989).
This methodology cannot explore the phenomena of human experience as it is lived
because those phenomena are not objectively measurable and observable. In other words, natural
science asks the question ―Why is this phenomenon?‖ rather than ―What is the essence of this
phenomenon?‖ As Valle, King, and Halling (1989) summarized it:
The reason that natural scientific psychology cannot even begin to deal with this kind of
questions (i.e., What? not Why?) is because natural scientific methodology is designed to
deal with only one-half of the behavior—experience polarity—behavior. In order to
address the important questions . . . relating to human experience as well as to human
behavior, we must turn to another approach in order to complement natural scientific
methodology. (p. 6)
In response to this and other limitations discussed in greater detail in the following sections, an
alternative system of research called existential phenomenology started to develop in the
beginning of the 20th century.
A phenomenological approach to the study of human experience starts by assuming a
transcendental attitude, which aims to ―regard everything from the perspective of consciousness,
that is, to look at all objects from the perspective of how they are experienced‖ (Giorgi, 2009, p.
88) rather than being concerned with their physical realness or causal relationships. In the
phenomenological perspective, the world (object) reveals itself only through the experience and
perceptions of the consciousness (subject), and therefore the studied phenomenon is assessed as a
whole, with no separation between object and subject.
The phenomenologist looks for the essential, indispensible, and invariable elements that
constitute the general meaning structure of the studied phenomenon as it is lived and experienced
by the participants in the study. Polkinghorne (1989) pointed out that in our perception, external
events and internal experiences appear meaningful, but the structure of meaning is difficult to
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describe. Polkinghorne posited that the purpose of phenomenological research is ―to produce
clear, precise, and systematic descriptions of the meaning that constitutes the activity of
consciousness‖ (p. 45).
Phenomenology was chosen as the research method for this study because of its capacity
to evaluate subjective experiences and to take into account the systemic nature of using astrology
to find meaning. In contrast, the empirical studies rooted in the naturalistic paradigm reduce
astrology to separate and meaningless elements, presuppose a particular outcome, or apply
astrological theories incorrectly, and most importantly, do not provide a suitable methodology
for investigating intersubjective processes of making meaning.
The study conducted for this dissertation had two important goals. First, it investigated
how people find meaning with the use of astrological symbols. Second, it explored the systemic
nature of finding meaning, which involves both external events and their subjective
interpretation. The following section presents in greater detail the foundational principles of
phenomenology and further demonstrates why this method was most appropriate for this
research. Following a brief philosophical review, this study‘s design is presented.
Basic Principles of Phenomenology
Development of Phenomenology
Existential phenomenology evolved as a result of blending the ideas of existential
philosophy, originating in the works of Søren Kierkegaard (2000), and phenomenology,
developed by Edmund Husserl (1972) as a methodology that aimed to understand and contact
phenomena as they are lived and experienced. Existential concerns about understanding
fundamental themes in human experiences (e.g., joy, grief, hope, happiness, meaning) and
phenomenological methodology were brought together in the works of Husserl‘s student, Martin
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Heidegger, and further developed by Merleau-Ponty, Jaspers, Giorgi, and others theorists and
practitioners (Giorgi, 2009; Valle, King, & Halling, 1989). Valle, King, and Halling (1989)
summarized the aim of existential phenomenology:
Existential phenomenology can be viewed as that philosophical discipline which seeks to

understand the events of human existence in a way that is free of the presuppositions of
our cultural heritage, especially philosophical dualism and technologism, as much as this
is possible. (p. 6)
Phenomenology started to develop as a philosophical system aiming to address the limitations of
naturalism and positivism in application to the study of human experiences. Although
phenomenology is not objective or positivist in nature, it is not a purely subjective philosophy;
rather, it sees objectivity and subjectivity as interdependent and inseparable. Phenomenology
challenges the approach that is totally objective or totally subjective, for such unilateral methods
confuse and distort the very phenomena they attempt to study (Valle, King, & Halling, 1989).
Phenomenology, as a research method suitable for studying human experiences, has been
developing through the work of phenomenological researchers, most notably Amedeo Giorgi
(1985, 1987, 2009). Giorgi (1985) expressed the need ―to translate the fundamental and valuable
insight of phenomenology into a concrete program of psychological scientific research‖ (p. 45).
Giorgi (2009) developed the descriptive phenomenological method of research based on
phenomenological principles and consisting of six concrete steps. The details of Giorgi‘s method
are presented in the sections outlining the study‘s design and data analysis. Before presenting the
study design, the author introduces basic philosophical principles of phenomenology necessary
for understanding the methodology used in this research.
Life-World
Husserl (1972) emphasized that phenomenology is concerned primarily with the
knowledge of essences, but not with the knowledge of facts pursued by the natural sciences.
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Husserl‘s main criticism of the latter approach is that it cannot provide answers concerning the
essential structure of things that constitute the meaning of phenomena in the consciousness;
rather it only describes the facts, which usually are observable and measurable. In Husserl‘s
words,
Pure or transcendental phenomenology will be established not as a science of facts, but as

a science of essential Being (as ―eidetic‖ Science); a science which aims exclusively at
establishing ―knowledge of essences‖ (Wesenserkenntnisse) and absolutely no ―facts.‖
The corresponding Reduction which leads from the psychological phenomenon to the
pure ―essence,‖ or, in respect of the judging thought, from factual (empirical) to
―essential‖ universality, is the eidetic Reduction. (p. 40)
To Husserl (1972), phenomenology is concerned with the life-world—the world as lived and
experienced by the individual, not theoretical or interpretive descriptions of such experiences
independent of him or her. The life-world can be defined as the dynamic interaction among the
individual, his or her perceptions of the world, and the world. Phenomenology views the person
and his or her world as being interdependent, and mutually cocreating: in phenomenological
terms, as coconstituting one another.
Phenomenology rejects the natural sciences‘ assumption that people are objects existing
separately from the world on the basis that the world outside only reveals itself through the
observer‘s consciousness (Noesis—the subjective, the perceiving), while the observer‘s
consciousness does not reveal itself unless it is of something in the world (Noema—the
objective, the perceived). In the words of Merleau-Ponty (1962):
Consciousness does not begin to exist until it sets limits to an object, and even the
phantoms of internal experience are possible only as things borrowed from external
experience. Therefore consciousness has no private life, and the only obstacle it
encounters is chaos, which is nothing. (p. 32)
The noetic—noematic relationship is not a simple one of two opposing poles (i.e., the perceiver
vs. the perceived); rather, it is the process of perceiving and being aware of the process of
perception. For example, I am aware of the computer on which I am typing the words of my
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dissertation, and, at the same time, I am aware of the process of perceiving the computer in my
consciousness. In other words, the awareness is of the object and of the act of consciousness.
Intentionality of Consciousness
One of the basic assumptions of natural sciences is the principle of causality—the cause-
and-effect relationship—which, in application to psychology, assumes that stimuli from the
outside world cause responses and reactions in a generally passive individual. In contrast,
phenomenology views consciousness as intentional, and therefore actively directed towards
objects. Husserl (1972) pointed out that consciousness is always of something. Intentionality is
an intrinsic feature of consciousness always directed toward the real or imaginary object but not
caused by their existence. Valle, King, and Halling (1989) described the interconnectedness
between consciousness and objects:
It is by consciousness that objects are made present (are ―intended‖), yet, equally as true,
it is by objects that consciousness is revealed or elucidated. Without a consciousness (as
―consciousing‖) through which they can show themselves there are no objects. Similarly,
without objects revealing themselves, there is no consciousness. They form an
indissoluble unity characterized by their mutual intentionality. (p. 12)
Giorgi (2009) added that the intentionality of consciousness directed toward particular objects
results in meaning. However, ―the meaning is not a ‗third term‘ between the act [of
consciousness] and the object but the particular way that the object is experienced‖ (p. 80). The
meaning, although subjective to the individual consciousness, can be studied and understood.
Prereflective Awareness
The natural sciences approach the study of human experiences with a reflective attitude
which involves conceptualizing and then probing the hypothetical causal relationships among
different variables constituting the phenomenon in question. In the phenomenological view, the
life-world is the primary ground for scientific thinking, and contains all phenomena and their
meaning in a prereflective state. Valle, King, and Halling (1989) stated that ―the existential-
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phenomenological psychologist describes the life-world as being of a prereflective nature (as
giving birth to our reflective awareness)‖ (p. 10). Thus, the phenomenologist needs to approach
his or her research with an attitude of prereflective awareness which will establish the proper
ground for the reflective understanding of the studied phenomenon. Valle and Mohs (1998)
describe the prereflective awareness as
preconceptual, and, therefore, prelanguaged, foundational, bodily knowing that exists ―as
lived‖ before or prior to any cognitive manifestation of this purely felt-sense. . . .
Meaning, then, is regarded by the phenomenological psychologists as the manifestation
in consciousness, reflective awareness of the underlying prereflective structure of the
particular experience. (p. 98)
The purpose of phenomenological research is to discover and describe the underlying lived
structures of the meaningful human experiences. Polkinghorne (1989) referred to lived structures
as structural descriptions of a studied experience, derived from a collection of naïve descriptions
by the process of phenomenological reduction.
Transcendental Attitude and Phenomenological Epoche
In order to find the essential lived structures of meaning in the studied experience, the
phenomenological researcher has to step away from the natural attitude of seeing the world as
objects existing independently of him- or herself into what Husserl (1972) called the
transcendental attitude. This is achieved by the process of bracketing, or putting one‘s
preconceptions and biases in abeyance. Husserl called this a phenomenological epoche. He
wrote:
I do not then deny this ―world,‖ as though I were a sophist, I do not doubt that it is there
as thought I were a skeptic; but I use the ―phenomenological‖ epoche, which completely
bars me from using any judgment that concerns spatio-temporal existence. . . . The whole
world as placed within the nature-setting and presented in experience as real, taken
completely ―free from all theory,‖ just as it is in reality experienced, and made clearly
manifest in and through the linkings of our experiences has now no validity for us, it
must be set in brackets, untested indeed but also uncontested. Similarly all theories and
sciences, positivistic or otherwise, which relate to this world, however good they may be,
succumb to the same fate. (p. 100)
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Here Husserl discusses the importance of putting aside all scientific, theoretical, but also
personal preconceptions and understanding of the world and approaching it with the
transcendental attitude.
In the process of bracketing, the phenomenological researcher first identifies and makes
explicit his or her own assumptions about the research so that the data analysis may reflect a
greater openness to the participant‘s subjective, intersubjective, and cultural life-world. In this
respect, the phenomenological method maintains an open-ended, unbiased approach to the
subject of research, allowing for the appropriate evaluation of data (e.g., Burdge, 2006; Chiang,
2009). Giorgi (2009) pointed out that bracketing is not forgetting everything one knows about
the studied phenomenon; rather, it means that the researcher should not let his or her past
knowledge be engaged while investigating the mode and content of the present experience.
Giorgi noted that bracketing requires ―a shift in attitude so that one can be fully attentively
present to an ongoing experience rather than habitually present to it‖ (p 92).
Astrology, Phenomenology, and Meaning
Phenomenology is a particularly suitable research methodology for this dissertation
because phenomenological philosophy centers on the questions of meaning. One of the most
influential ontologists and philosophers of the 20th century, Heidegger (1993) formulated and
answered questions about the meaning of Being. Heidegger asserted that the nature of a
phenomenon may be understood through the apparent manifestations which are not the
phenomenon itself, but the phenomenon ―making itself known through something that shows
itself‖ (p. 75). Heidegger gives an example of the appearances of symptoms of illness that show
themselves and indicate something (the illness, the disturbance in the body) that does not show
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itself. Through the appearances the essence of what is not showing itself can be understood.
Heidegger wrote:
Phenomenon—the self-showing in itself—means a distinctive way something can be

encountered. On the other hand, appearance means a referential relation in beings
themselves such that what does the referring (the making known) can fulfill its possible
function only if it shows itself in itself—only if it is a ―phenomenon.‖
Heidegger developed philosophical hermeneutics—the interpretive process that allows
Being to uncover itself in and through man himself. He wrote of transcendence which implies an
openness to that which is beyond oneself, to what has not yet occurred, to possibility. In
application to astrology, hermeneutics correlate to the process of relating the parts to the whole,
or comprehending a meaning of something as a whole by understanding its parts. When people
look for meaning in their experiences through the lens of astrological symbolism, they correlate
their particular experience to the meaning associated with astrological elements, and in reverse.
In this process, called the hermeneutical circle, their understanding deepens, and they reconsider
the meaning of a part (personal experience) in relation to their sense of the whole (world), which
also changes or expands (Valle & Halling, 1989).
Both phenomenological and astrological perspectives are similar in regard to the issue of
determinism versus free will. Phenomenology rejects the idea of complete determinism that
considers an objectified individual as completely predetermined by the causes beyond his or her
control. At the same time, the notion of absolute free will is declined because, in the
phenomenological view, the world is always impacting people and presents them with the
choices they did not seek, while people are acting on the world based on their free will. The
person is considered to have situated freedom; ―that is the freedom (an obligation) of making
choices within, and oftentimes limited by, a given situation that the world has presented to him
or her‖ (Valle, King, & Halling, 1989, p. 8). Similarly, traditional systems of astrology view
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human life as an interplay between man‘s free will and fate, which is an accumulation of
previous deeds and thoughts.
Conclusion
To summarize, phenomenology is concerned with a small group of participants‘ everyday
lived experiences of a studied phenomenon. This method first qualitatively identifies meaningful
elements in unique individual experiences and, by capturing their essence, arrives at in-depth
essential, invariant structures, which may be generalized to a larger group. The essential or
invariant structure represents a common meaning that unifies different participants‘ experiences
of a particular phenomenon.
For this study‘s purposes, phenomenology was chosen as a suitable method because this
research focused on the subjective experiences of people using astrological symbols to create
meaning. Given that the chosen participants had familiarity with astrological symbolism and
found it meaningful, the study was not concerned with proving astrology‘s objective validity.
From the point of view of phenomenology, no dichotomy exists between an object and a subject,
and ―the reality of an object is only perceived within the meaning of the experience of an
individual‖ (Creswell, 1998, p. 53). As applied to astrology, this means that its validity was
affirmed by its meaningfulness in people‘s subjective experience.
Phenomenology uses a method of data reduction to elicit the essential structures behind
subjective psychological experiences. These structures contain the indispensable characteristics
of a particular experience and, to some extent, may be generalized to a larger population.
Research Design
The study‘s purpose was to utilize astrological symbolism to investigate subjective
experiences of meaning creation. This research was conducted in the following sequence: (a) the
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participants were enlisted and screened in a phone interview; (b) the participants were asked to
fill out a questionnaire to collect their demographic information and to help the screening
process; (c) the participants were oriented to the research process and procedure over the phone
and/or email; (d) each participant was invited for a one-on-one interview, asked to sign the
consent form (see Appendix A), and invited to describe how astrology influences his or her
understanding of important life events; (e) the data were collected and analyzed according to the
phenomenological method; and (f) the researcher followed up with the participants to inform
them of the study results, if they had requested it.
To recruit participants, a flyer with the invitation to participate in the study was created
and posted at different psychology schools around the San Francisco Bay Area, and at the San
Francisco Astrological Society‘s headquarters. In addition, the researcher contacted different
individuals who have both an interest in and experience with psychology and astrology. Since
the phenomenological method is concerned with the participants‘ subjective experiences, it does
not require a large sample. Four participants were selected for the study.
Sample Description
The participants were sought according to the following criteria: (a) at least 18 years of
age; (b) sufficient familiarity with astrology to be able to interpret their subjective experiences
with astrological symbolism; (c) fluency in English and ability to articulate their internal
experience; (d) good mental health, with no history of mental disorders: and (e) abstinence from
psychotropic medication or recreational drugs and/or alcohol. There were no limitations or
preferences regarding the participants‘ gender, socioeconomic status, relationships status,
profession, ethnicity, or religion. For geographical convenience, the researcher targeted the
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participants‘ location to the San Francisco Bay Area, while remaining open to the possibility of
recruiting participants at other locations.
The criterion that the participants be sufficiently familiar with astrology was necessitated
by the researcher‘s goal to find the most essential and comprehensive description of how
astrological symbolism was used to find meaning. Although people less familiar with astrology
could also use it for self-understanding and meaning construction, they were likely to be less
specific in their descriptions. In addition, as the phenomenological method is concerned with
studying lived experiences of a particular phenomenon, the researcher preferred participants who
had sufficient personal exposure to such a phenomenon. The potential bias in selecting the
participants or interpreting the data was countered by the phenomenological process of
bracketing and the treatment of the data. The chosen participants were required to self-report
sufficient familiarity with astrology. During the prescreening stage, the researcher asked
prospective participants to briefly discuss their understanding and usage of astrology.
Additionally, a high degree of self-introspection and good articulation were necessary to convey
how astrological symbols are used to interpret the subjective experience. The researcher planned
to evaluate the level of self-reflection and familiarity with astrology during the original phone
interview and the follow-up questionnaire. Both included questions inviting the prospective
participant to elaborate on his or her subjective experience.
Because this research was conducted in English, good command of this language was
necessary for appropriate communication between the researcher and the participants. To ensure
uniformity of data, English was the only language used in the study. The researcher accepted
both native and nonnative speakers of English based on her judgment of their articulateness and
ease of understanding. Finally, good mental health was required of the prospective participants to
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ensure their safety and clarity of communication. The communication of ideas between the
researcher and the prospective participant could have been compromised if the participant‘s
consciousness had been altered by psychotropic medication, recreational drugs, or physical
ailment. In addition, the researcher wished to ensure the prospective participants‘ psychological
well-being and ability to handle psychological material. Although this research was unlikely to
cause any distress to the participant, his or her reflection on past events may have evoked strong
feelings and thoughts. The researcher provided referrals to a professional psychotherapist for the
participants‘ convenience and support, if so requested.
Measures or Surveys
During the first stage of the study, participants were interviewed on the phone to ensure
they meet basic criteria for the conducted study and to assess their ability to articulate subjective
experience. The researcher informed participants about the nature and procedure of this study. In
the next step, prospective participants were asked to fill out a demographic questionnaire
designed to help the screening process (see Appendix B). Qualified participants were invited for
a one-on-one interview. There were no rejected candidates at that stage of the research. The
primary researcher omitted one completed interview from the final analysis due to inadequate
data that resulted from the participant‘s insufficient knowledge of astrology. This became
apparent during the interview, and at researcher discretion the data was not used but the
participant thanked for her time and participation. A referral to a pre-arranged psychotherapist
was available, for the participant if any discomfort would have arisen from this process.
During the interview, each participant was invited to remember an important experience
in his or her life when he or she had employed astrology to understand or move through some
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significant experience. The researcher conducted a semistructured interview and asked questions
such as:
1. Please describe some meaningful experience when you used astrology to make sense
out of your experience or cope with it?
2. How do you use astrology to understand or explain something in your life?
3. What are the benefits of using astrology in your life?
4. What are the drawbacks to using astrology in your life?
The interview process took between 50 minutes to 1 hour. The interview process could
have evoked memories and feelings that the participant wished to explore further. A referral to a
psychotherapist was available, but no participants requested it.
Data Collection Procedures
Three interviews were conducted over the phone from the Institute of Transpersonal
Psychology due to the distant location of the participants, and the fourth interview was
conducted in person. A time convenient for the participant was chosen. The interview started
with a greeting and a brief orientation to the interview procedure. The participant was asked to
sign the consent form (see Appendix A). The interview was recorded and later transcribed.
Professional transcription services were employed, and the transcriber was asked to sign a
confidentiality consent (see Appendix B). All materials were stored on the researcher‘s computer
and protected by a password. To protect the confidentiality of the participants, only first names
or pseudonyms chosen by participants were used.
Data Analysis Procedures
The data were analyzed according to the phenomenological method described by Giorgi
(1985, 1989, 1997, 2009). The phenomenological method is based on the principles discussed
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earlier and requires the following steps in treating the data: (a) bracketing; (b) getting a sense of
the whole from the entire description, and then dividing the description into meaning units; (c)
expressing meaning units in a psychological language; (d) reduction to the essential meaning
units, or constituents, pertaining to the phenomena studied; (e) obtaining a description of a
situated structure; and (f) obtaining a description of a general structure by comparing the situated
structures for the repeated meaning units. Each step will be detailed below.
The process of bracketing required putting into abeyance one‘s preconceptions and
presuppositions. It was not possible to completely eliminate one‘s assumptions, but suspending
them helped to approach the researched phenomenon with a transcendental attitude, discussed
earlier in this chapter, and defined by Husserl (1972) as an attitude of openness to the
phenomenon under investigation it presents to the researcher‘s present experience, while the
researcher puts into abeyance all previous scientific, theoretical, and personal preconceptions
about the phenomenon.
Such an attitude indicated that the researcher‘s consciousness was not separate or
―objective‖ interpreter of the experiences reported by the participants, but rather a coparticipant
of the research. As Giorgi (2009) put it,
to assume the phenomenological attitude means to regard everything from the perspective
of consciousness, that is, to look at all objects from the perspective of how they are
experienced regardless of whether or not they actually are the way they are being
experienced. (p. 89)
In other words, the experience of the research participants was investigated without testing the
validity of their experiences but with an open attitude for finding the essential elements of such
experiences.
The researcher temporarily suspended her own ideas, beliefs, and value judgments about
the studied phenomenon, and approached it with an open attitude as much as it was possible.
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Giorgi (2009) pointed out that bracketing does not imply forgetting one‘s beliefs and
assumptions about the phenomenon, but rather putting them out in the open and not having them
inform the investigation of the phenomenon as it presented itself. The primary researcher‘s
training in psychology and some meditation experience helped her to put herself in a state of
relative neutrality and openness, putting aside her preconceptions and beliefs about the studied
phenomenon, for the time of data collection and analysis.
Husserl (1972) pointed out the transcendental attitude is helped by the process of
bracketing one‘s assumptions about the studied phenomenon. The primary researcher identified a
few assumptions to be put into abeyance for this study. First, the researcher believes that
astrology is able to provide valuable, accurate, and valid information that helps in understanding
one‘s experience whether it be the internal psychological dynamics, or the external patterns of
relationships or manifested life circumstances. This belief is based on the researcher‘s
continuous study and application of astrological knowledge to her own life.
For example, after having frequent experiences of disillusionment and disappointment in
intimate relationships and friendships, the researcher understood these experiences better by
reflecting on the meaning associated with square aspect between Neptune and Venus in her natal
chart. The patterns of relating that involved dreaming the other persons up, or attributing
desirable but imagined qualities to people and relationships were operating in the researcher‘s
unconscious, and were eventually brought to surface and conscious recognition when the
researcher pondered the meaning of the repeated theme of disappointment in her life and
connected it with the symbolic meaning of her natal Neptune Venus aspect.
In Western astrology, Neptune is associated with confusion, illusion, escapism, and living
in a dream world, while Venus symbolizes one‘s patterns of relating. Consequently, the
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researcher associated her repeated experiences of disillusionment in the relationships with the
archetypal meanings of Neptune and Venus in her horoscope. It should be noted that the process
of reflection and understanding that took many years helped the researcher to free herself to a
large extent from this difficult psychological pattern of behavior. As a result, the researcher
learned to distinguish with better precision the idealized projections from the more truthful
understanding of her relationships dynamics, as opposed to the previously diffused (Neptune)
line between fantasy and reality.
This personal example leads to a second belief the research needed to bracket: that
astrological symbols are meaningful and relevant to personal experience. The comparison
between her experience of disillusionment, collapse of her ideals, and the meanings
astrologically associated with Neptune and Venus impressed the researcher with their deep
interconnectedness and helped her to become more conscious of some of her limiting and
nonproductive psychological dynamics.
The third assumption that the researcher needed to put aside was the belief in the
archetypal nature of astrology. The researcher sees planets as meaningful archetypal
manifestations of natural order. The word archetype to the researcher means that planets
represent some global themes in human experiences. For example, the archetypal theme of
Saturn is the necessity of hard work, some limitation of pleasure, and a demand for structure and
discipline. As the researcher was going through the final stage of her dissertation writing, she
had transiting Saturn in opposition to her natal Sun. She had to refine and rewrite her manuscript
multiple times expanding the parts she had thought were finished and in good order.
Understanding of the archetypal ―need,‖ the researcher was motivated to improve and solidify
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her work. The researcher realized that real life demands (Saturn) that were seemingly
oppositional to her light shining (Sun) could, in fact, bring a greater fullness to this work.
The final assumption to be put in abeyance was that the people who were interested in
astrology found similar value and benefit in it and considered it a valid system of knowledge. In
the process of doing this research, the author realized that her participants have different ways of
employing astrology for their benefit. For the time of the study, the researcher remained neutral
and tried to free herself from any expectations and presuppositions about the results of her
research. Although it was not possible to be completely free of one‘s assumptions and beliefs
about a particular phenomenon, bracketing helped the researcher to better understand and treat
the research data with an attitude of openness, newness, and neutrality.
The next step involved reading the transcribed narrative multiple times to get a sense of
the whole. At first, the researcher searched for transitions of meanings. The description was then
divided into meaning units, called constituents. The constituents were viewed with regard to the
whole narrative and were expressed in the participant‘s natural language. At this point, all
meaning units were considered without distinguishing those pertinent to the researched
phenomenon.
During the third step, the researcher examined, probed, and reduced redundant meaning
units, and found the essential meanings of the researched phenomenon. She then described the
meaning units in psychological language. This process, called imaginative variation involved
repeated trials of readings and distinguishing the essential meaning units. In Giorgi‘s (1997)
words,
one could say that the essence is the most invariant meaning for a context. It is the
articulation, based on intuition, of a fundamental meaning without which a phenomenon
could not present itself as it is. It is a constant identity that holds together and limits the
variations that a phenomenon can undergo. This is why free imaginative variation is a
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natural method for discovering essences. As the name implies, the method means that one
freely changes aspects or parts of a phenomenon or object, one sees if the phenomenon
remains identifiable with the part changed or not. (pp. 242-243)
Thus, the essential meaning units are those that most invariably and irreducibly constitute the
phenomenon. The first and second reductions were captured in the tables appended at the end of
the dissertation. (See Appendixes D-G).
The following step was a further reduction of meaning units expressed in disciplinary
language to a situated structure—a structure expressing the essential meaning unique to the
individual experience. The situated structure includes only those meaning units that were
invariant and irreplaceable. In other words, they could not be removed from the narrative without
changing its essential meaning. Comparison between the different situated structures led to the
formulation of the general structure—universal and true to all individual descriptions (Giorgi,
1997). The general structure contains key constituents common to all or most situated structures.
Giorgi (2009) emphasized that both situated and general structure need to be expressed as
accurately as possible, without adding or subtracting from them. He stated:
The major implication of this step is that description is favored rather than other
philosophical alternatives, such as explanation or accounting for the particular
phenomena. Description is the use of language to articulate the intentional objects of
experience. This sense of description is contrasted with interpretation, which in my view,
is the use of language to articulate the internal object of experience with the help of some
nongiven factor, such as an assumption, hypothesis, theory or like. (p. 89)
In accord with Giorgi‘s method, the situated structures are presented with a fair amount of
descriptive contextual details that were essential to understanding the meaning units. The key
constituents are also summarized at the end of each situated structure, so that the reader could
follow how the general structure was distilled.
Girogi (2009) provides the following criteria for a general structure. First, it has to
contain the most invariant constituent of the experience studied. If the constituent were removed
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and the structure would collapse, then the constituent is essential to it; otherwise, the constituent
is not essential. In other words, the constituents that cannot be removed during the process of
reduction constitute the structure of the studied experience. Second, the general structure has to
be a careful description ―of the intentional objects that are deemed to be essential for the
structure . . . [and] that highlight the psychological understanding of the life-world phenomenon‖
(p. 199). The general structure needs to provide a deeper insight in the psychological unified
dynamics that take place across the experiences of all participants, and the insights provided by
the structure enable better understanding of variations within the raw data.
An abbreviated example from Giorgi‘s writing should further orient the reader to the
steps of data analysis. In his analysis of the experience of jealousy, Giorgi (2009) presented the
following reduction from the naïve (1st column) to psychological language (2nd column) and
into meaning unit (3rd column) (p. 146).
Naïve description of the Reduction to psychological Reduction to meaning unit

experience of jealousy language
expressed in 3rd person
(Meaning unit 2): Some years Participant 1 (P1) states that P1, a woman, discovered that
ago, Participant 1 (P1) was some years ago she was with a she had formed a new, close
with a group of people in group of people in a relationship with a male
three-day training. P1 had a professional setting requiring member of training group that
causal friendship with some of a three-day commitment. She was to meet over three days.
them, and one of them P1 had states that she had a causal Relationships with other
just formed a very close relationship with some of the members of the group were
friendship with. group members, but with one causal.
of them P1 had just formed a
very close relationship.
(Meaning unit 5): P1 P1 claims to have understood P1 states that she was secretly
understood why the new close intellectually that it was entertaining the unreasonable
friend decided to go with the reasonable for her new friend wish that her new close male
others, because he did not to have decided to go with the friend would forego lunch
bring his lunch but P1 really group because he would had with the others and remain
was secretly hoping he would no food to consume had he with her, even if no food was
stay in with her. It was remained with P1. However, available. P1 could
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perfectly reasonable that he P1 states that she was covertly intellectually acknowledge the
would choose to go out but P1 wishing that her friend would reasonableness of his decision
felt hurt, and at the same time, behave somewhat to join the others, but she felt
silly at having that feeling. unreasonably and stay with simultaneously emotionally
her during lunch. P1 states that hurt by his choice but she also
her friend‘s reasonable was aware of bemused self-
decision to go with the others deprecating feelings toward
left her with a feeling of a herself for feeling emotionally
sense of loss and emotionally hurt. She recognized that her
upset, simultaneously with desire was not really rational,
accompanying feelings of but she did feel that way and
oddness or strangeness with felt awkward because of it.
respect to herself for
experiencing the emotional
upsetness that she felt.
In the next step, Giorgi illustrated his process of reduction with the contextual discussion
of the experience of jealousy for the participant. He wrote:
In the part of the description that has been analyzed so far, P1 desired to be the center of
attention of her new friend but circumstances prevented that from happening and P1 is
left with feelings of hurt because her friend chose a reasonable course of action, but it
excluded the possibility of centering on her. . . . (p. 156)
In the final structure, Giorgi compared Participant 1‘s and Participant 2‘s experiences of jealousy
and came up with a general structure containing the essence of this phenomenon:
For P (an ideal), jealousy is experience when she discovers a strong desire in herself to be
the center of attention of a significant other, or others, that is not forth coming even
though such attention would require irrational conditions. Alternatively, jealousy is
experience when P perceives that another is receiving significant attention that she wishes
were being directed to her and the attention the other receives is experienced as a lack in
her. . . . (p. 167)
This example and full commentary can be found in Giorgi‘s book, The Descriptive
Phenomenological Method in Psychology: A Modified Husserlian Approach (2009), in Chapter
6. This should serve as an illustration of the steps taken in the process of phenomenological
reduction. In Chapter 4, the researcher followed this process with her interview data, while the
tables with all meaning reductions are included at the end of the dissertation in the appendixes.
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Limitations and Delimitations
This this study had a few limitations and delimitations. One delimitation was that the
sample chosen for the study was limited only to people knowledgeable about and favorably
disposed to astrology. The positive regard of astrology was implied in the fact that the
participants had employed it to interpret their life experiences. Consequently, the results may not
be generalized to the people who do not believe in or do not know astrology well. Although the
researcher supposes that astrology may be valuable to people who are skeptical or unfamiliar
with its principles, the nature of the study excluded this group from consideration.
Another limitation was in the researcher‘s imperfect knowledge of the English language,
which was not her native language. Although she has a high level of acculturation and proficient
command of English, it was possible that she may have missed or misinterpreted some subtle
nuances of personal experiences. The researcher hoped that the use of the phenomenological
method combats this delimitation. Phenomenological research reduced detailed content to the
essential elements in which the most basic structures of experience were retrieved. The
dissertation committee was also helpful in providing critical feedback on the data interpretation.
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Chapter 4: Results
Seven participants were interviewed for this study. After the interviews were completed,
2 participants withdrew from participation for privacy reasons. Both felt that the information
they shared was too personal and revealing to be used in the final analysis. One interview was
rejected by the author for the participant‘s insufficient familiarity with astrology, which resulted
in inadequate data. As a result, four interviews have been analyzed and are presented for
discussion in the sections outlining the situated structure for each participant.
Phenomenological method does not require a large number of participants due to its
emphasis on the participants‘ subjective lived experiences of the studied phenomenon. The
method qualitatively identifies the most essential elements, or meaning units, reduced from the
naïve descriptions given by the participants. It then arrives at an in-depth, invariant, situated
structure of meaning, which represents how each participant experiences and understands the
phenomenon under investigation. The situated structures are compared and analyzed together in
order to establish the most essential themes, or meaning units, common to all participants, which
are summarized in the general structure. The latter contains the most invariant themes common
to all participants, and is the more abstract and generalizable finding of the study applicable to a
larger population.
In addition, multiple descriptions of the studied phenomenon occur during the open-
ended interviews providing more data than (n) number of participants (Burdge, 2006). For
example, in this study, after four interviews were transcribed and analyzed according to the
phenomenological method, they resulted in almost 200 pages of data with multiple descriptions
of the studied phenomenon. In recent phenomenological dissertations (e.g., Bolleman, 2009;

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Burdge, 2006; Chiang, 2010; Knighton, 2009), as a standard, 3 to 8 participants were recruited,
and current study findings are based on the analysis of four in-depth interviews.
Chapter 4 begins with a section outlining composite demographic information for all
participants. It is followed by four sections containing the situated structures of each
participant—the phenomenological summaries comprised of the essential elements found in their
individual experiences of finding meaning with astrological symbolism. The individual
structures include contextual details that illustrate the key meaning units as they presented
themselves in the experiences of the participants. In accord with Giorgi‘s (2009) method, the
situated structures are descriptive but not interpretive. The situated structures include relevant
astrological terminology and its interpretation by the participants as essential for understanding
their process of finding meaning through the lens of astrology. Each individual structure is
followed by the summary of key themes, or constituents distilled from the interview and matched
to the meaning units that form its basis.
In order to better orient the reader with the participant‘s data, each situated structure is
preceded with individual demographic information. To protect the participants‘ privacy,
pseudonyms were used in this study. In addition, some demographic and biographic details not
directly relevant for this study were omitted. The concluding section presents the general
structure with fundamental themes common to all or most participants and derived by the
comparison between the situated structures. All information in the situated structures was true at
the times of the interviews and is written in the present tense for ease of presentation.
Demographics
The participants‘ demographics were collected using a one page electronic questionnaire
with a few open-ended questions (see Appendix C). The participants were invited to identify
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their age, marital status, spiritual orientation, place of birth, and current residence. Of the 4
participants of this study, 2 were men and 2 were women. Two were professional astrologers,
and 2 others were recent graduates from psychology schools currently establishing themselves in
a field of psychology and consulting. The youngest of the participants was 31 years old, the
oldest 60 years old, and the others were in their mid 30s and mid 40s respectively. Three
participants were born and raised in the United States, and the fourth emigrated from Russia as a
child. Two were Caucasian Americans, one was Pakistani American, and one was Jewish
American. The spiritual orientation varied among all participants. One participant identified
herself as Christian, another identified with Christian Mysticism, and the 2 other participants did
not identify with any traditional spiritual tradition but were not atheists. Interestingly, for all
participants astrology serves as a spiritual system of meaning. In the following sections the
situated structures of each participant are presented.
Participant 1: MaryAnn’s Situated Structure
―MaryAnn‖ is a 36-year-old, Caucasian female, born and raised in the United States, and
a full-time professional astrologer by occupation. She identified her spiritual orientation as
Christian, and she resides in New York City. MaryAnn has been engaged with astrology
professionally for at least 7 years and uses her astrological knowledge personally and
professionally on a daily basis.
Astrology serves as a metaphorical reference system that allows MaryAnn to understand
her experiences in a symbolic context and alter her behavior. The participant considers planetary
transits affecting one‘s birth chart particularly meaningful and instrumental in bringing to
manifestation the events and lessons one is destined to experience. In MaryAnn‘s words,
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The transiting planets, as they influence our birth chart kind of trigger lessons and events
to manifest. And we as astrologist can see these trends coming, and we can prepare and
utilize the energy as best as we can. However, we all have lessons to learn.
The participant uses her astrological knowledge to anticipate, prepare for, and cope with such
events in a most constructive way. Nevertheless, at times, the experiences of planetary transits
exceed her clarity and preparedness, and she has to expand her understanding.
MaryAnn chose to discuss one of the most profound examples of how she experienced a
challenging transit of Neptune to her natal Mercury between 2007 and 2009. Due to changing its
motion from direct to retrograde, Neptune made five passes to MaryAnn‘s natal Mercury. In the
beginning of the transit, the participant had a conceptual understanding of the astrological
meaning associated with it. MaryAnn explained,
And in astrology, as you know, Mercury is the planet of communication, and Neptune,
when it is at a difficult angle to a planet, it can cloud your perceptions and you are not
able to really understand what is happening as it relates to that planet. So, traditionally
when Neptune is squaring your Mercury, you are advised not to sign contracts, you are
advised to be wary of communication, because you could be deceived.
To MaryAnn the transit symbolically indicated general lack of clarity in recognizing the true
nature of her experiences and a possibility of being deceived in communications, in particular, in
signing papers and contracts, as Mercury rules these areas in traditional astrology and Neptune
―clouds‖ one‘s perception. However, the conceptual understanding of the meaning associated
with the transit did not prepare MaryAnn for the actual experience.
In 2007, at the first exact square aspect of transiting Neptune to her natal Mercury,
MaryAnn was shocked when her husband unexpectedly demanded a separation from her.
MaryAnn exemplified how she experienced the Neptune-Mercury influence as ―clouding her
perception‖: She was led to believe that her husband sincerely doubted her fidelity after
misunderstanding MaryAnn‘s correspondence. During the first two passages of Neptune to her
natal Mercury, MaryAnn was in a state of ―shock and emotional fog,‖ and she had been
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manipulated by her husband to give him financial rights to their assets in order to ―save their
marriage.‖ She stated,
This begins the Neptune-Mercury issue here. And so he was reading e-mails that he did
not understand and misconstruing them in his own way, and he had me believing that he
truly believed that I was going to have an affair. And he demanded a separation and he
demanded that I sign papers. And in the papers that I signed—it wound up being two
different sets of contracts—and it happened over the first hit and then the second
mathematical hit [of Neptune square to Mercury], where he said I never loved him and I
had only married him for money. And we had been together for 15 years. He said, prove
to me that you did not marry me for money . . . and I signed away my rights to
everything—all of the assets—in an effort to save my marriage, because I believed that
he thought that I only married him for money and that he thought I was going to have an
affair.
During the third passage of Neptune to Mercury, MaryAnn received the news and
evidence from an anonymous person that her husband had been unfaithful and dishonest in his
behavior and he had attempted to seize their financial assets. Up until that point, MaryAnn was
unable to use her astrological knowledge of a possibility of deceit in communication associated
with the transit of Neptune to Mercury, because she lacked clarity. By the middle of the transit,
the participant had gained awareness of the true nature of her experience and was able to modify
her behavior. She stated,
And that was the beginning of me realizing that I had been deceived and I had been
discarded. And all of the traditional [meaning]—what you would expect with Neptune‘s
squaring Mercury [aspect]—it manifested for me. And I was an astrologer and I knew
that this could happen, yet it still happened, because I was under that influence. So, when
the awareness kicked in by that third mathematical hit [of transiting Neptune square to
her natal Mercury], and the following two hits I took him to court and I won a trial.
When MaryAnn realized the true nature of her experience as being deceived and misled,
she was able to alter her behavior. During the fourth and fifth passages of Neptune to her natal
Mercury, MaryAnn took her husband to court, proved the fraud, and won the trial. She
summarized what she learned in this process as follows:
I think [this is] a very vivid example of Neptune, how it could cloud your judgment: You
are missing information and you are signing things that you should not sign. And then by
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the end of the transit you gain the awareness and you learn how to properly integrate that
energy.
MaryAnn integrated the meaning of Neptune as ―clouding one‘s judgment‖ with her experience
of being deceived in communication due to the lack of truthful information. Her marriage was
dissolved together with the fraudulent contracts, which the participant saw as another meaningful
manifestation of Neptune‘s influence, traditionally associated with dissolution. MaryAnn sees
the meaning of this chaotic experience in her ability to ―gain the awareness‖ and alter her
behavior appropriately.
MaryAnn uses astrology for self-identification and redirecting and expressing her
psychological energy in a constructive way. For example, she reported having ―a bad temper,‖
which she astrologically associates with her natal Mars in Cancer squaring Pluto. MaryAnn
stated,
I have Aries rising. And the ruler of my rising sign would be Mars in Cancer. And Mars
in Cancer is very close to the nadir in my birth chart—the 4th house cusp, but it‘s in the
3rd house. So, this helps me to understand that I am the type of person who can have a
bad temper. Mars is squaring my Pluto. I can have a very bad temper, and I could yell.
And if I do not do something physical, if I‘m not involved in exercise—weight training,
any physical activity—that tendency could get out of control for me, and I could yell
much more than I would want to. And so I notice [this] about myself—I could see it and I
could also see how to help the pattern.
MaryAnn redirects her strong physical energy and keeps her temper under control by engaging in
regular exercise. She considers her temper and feelings of anger an imprint of growing up in a
violent home with an alcoholic father who was physically abusive to her mother. By reflection
on the meaning of Mars Pluto square in her chart, traditionally associated with violence and
anger, MaryAnn identified how her family pattern influenced the development of her temper.
Knowledge of astrology helps MaryAnn to gain awareness of her psychological dynamics and to
choose their constructive expression.

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MaryAnn‘s understanding of the meaning of Mars Saturn conjunction in her chart helped
her to control her temper and redirect strong energy not only to the appropriate physical activities
but into passionate ways of healing others. MaryAnn associates Mars in her chart with her ability
to communicate with passion, and Saturn with her capacity to crystallize and focus her thoughts.
MaryAnn‘s knowledge of astrology has helped her to understand, access, and utilize her inherent
talents more fully.
In the beginning of her study of astrology, MaryAnn occasionally felt threatened or
uncertain about the meaning of her chart and thought that it could represent every possible
problem. For example, she has Uranus on her descendent and, in accord with the traditional
astrological meaning of Uranus, she feared that it would manifest literally as a sudden divorce or
the death of her husband. MaryAnn explained,
I learned early on, I‘m sure you did as well—the planet Uranus, which is sudden
upheaval, it is right on my descendant, the exact degree of my descendant. So, as an
astrologer, I always had feared that that would manifest as a sudden divorce or a sudden
death to my spouse. . . . And what happened was when I was 33, it was a sudden
separation—suddenly, overnight. Literally overnight. He pulled the rug out from under
me. But I could see it; I could see the potential there.
MaryAnn described how her husband‘s demand for a separation and his dishonest behavior had
been an unexpected and uprooting experience for her, in spite of the general anticipation that it
might occur.
Later MaryAnn‘s understanding expanded and she saw the disruption in a relationship
with her ex-husband as a manifestation of previously unrecognized needs to be free, innovative,
and unusual. The participant now believes that the disruptive relationship was necessary in order
for her to get in touch with her own unusualness and eccentric interests. She is able to see Uranus
as an archetypal symbol of her unconscious potentials, and less as representing of the literal
events that occurred.

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For MaryAnn astrology is a system of knowledge that supports self-understanding and
self-validation. By reflecting on the astrological symbolism of her chart, the participant gains a
deeper understanding of her needs and potential and is able to choose the most constructive ways
of expressing her psychological qualities. MaryAnn exemplified how she chooses to express her
Sun in Taurus by bolstering self-confidence and appreciation of her talents, rather than self-doubt
and clinging to material security. She stated,
When I learned about the archetype that a Sun in Taurus is a very security-driven person
that likes to keep things stable, and when I began to understand that if I am operating on
my shadow side of the Taurus, from the perspective of living in fear and doubting my
own self-worth and my own talents and abilities, that is when I could cling to the material
world too much. Whereas if I am channeling my Taurus energy in the higher realm where
I want to be, then I am learning how to embrace my own talents and abilities and how to
take care of myself in the physical world. And so you could see the balance of energy,
how you could consciously shift it from a negative manifestation to a positive
manifestation.
The participant finds validation of her personality qualities in the meaning of her astrological
chart. For example, she had doubted her intuitive perceptions, but after studying astrology she
saw many indications of the intuitive faculty in her own chart. That helped her validate her
intuition.
Astrology provides MaryAnn with a symbolic frame of reference that helps her find
meaning and purpose in her internal and external experiences. For example, she associates Pluto
Venus opposition in her chart with the experiences of attracting manipulative men into her life,
as well as legal and power struggles with men over money and control, and crimes committed by
her husband against her. In another example, MaryAnn discussed her Moon-Neptune
conjunction as symbolic of her tendency to idealize motherhood. Her fantasy about motherhood
as the most wonderful and perfect thing was ―torn apart‖ when she became a mother. The
participant better understood her feelings of disillusionment and disappointment by reflecting on
the symbolic meaning of her chart. In MaryAnn‘s words,

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My Moon-Neptune conjunction—I had a very specific fantasy—I idealized motherhood.

I thought motherhood would be the most wonderful, perfect thing in the world. Moon-
Neptune conjunction. Well, I became a mother when Pluto was transiting that
conjunction . . . and it completely tore up my illusions and fantasies about being a
mother. Being a mother was nothing that I had anticipated. And so I could see where I
tend to delude myself. It‘s amazing.
Knowledge of astrology helps MaryAnn to anticipate the timing and duration of different
experiences. When faced with difficulties such as the legal battle and divorce proceedings with
her ex-husband or financial limitations, the participant gets reassured that the trying period will
end and can anticipate when. She stated,
The more I am using [astrology], the more I could see the cyclical patterns of when
something would begin and when it will end. So right now, for example, I am going
through a significant legal battle and a divorce. And I am using astrology to track my
cycles and to see that, yes, there will be an ending to this. And what I am tracking is a
transit in Pluto is now square my natal Venus, transiting Saturn is opposing my natal
Venus at the same time. This is a very difficult time for love and money, when Venus is
afflicted. But I can see, as an astrologer, when these cycles would end, and that helps me
know that, okay, my divorce and the finances will be settled by this time.
MaryAnn also views planetary transits as a timer of important cycles in one‘s life. For
example, when Mars transited over her son‘s natal sixth house, it coincided with some health
issues, and more generally, with a crucial time in his personal development. The participant
values the ability to recognize the important cycles in her son‘s life and to gain and
understanding of how to best help him through them.
MaryAnn understood the change in her relationship with her mother by reflecting on the
meaning associated with the astrological transit of Pluto to her chart. The participant had to
reassess her idealized perception of her mother and alter their relationship when faced with her
mother‘s inappropriate behavior. MaryAnn associates Pluto transit with transformations that may
involve an ending, even death, and the Moon is a general indicator of the mother in Western
astrology. During the Pluto transit, MaryAnn‘s mother attempted suicide after defrauding
MaryAnn. MaryAnn gave an example from her natal chart.

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So I have Neptune next to my Moon. These two planets cannot operate without each
other; they must be connected. And Neptune does cloud what it touches. Well, I had
some delusions about my mother. And Pluto came across this conjunction [by transit]—
and this is in my 8th house, which rules joint finances, as you know, and credit and all
sorts of investment money. Pluto came to conjunct my Moon-Neptune conjunction in the
8th house, and what happened was my mother attempted suicide. And that is Pluto-Moon.
The participant‘s mother used MaryAnn‘s identity to secure many credit cards, which
ruined MaryAnn‘s credit. The participant correlated her experience of being twice deceived in
financial matters with the symbolic meaning of Neptune in the eighth house of her chart:
Neptune is traditionally associated with confusion and deceit, and the eighth house is associated
with the shared financial assets. MaryAnn stated,
That Neptune in the 8th house is very—you can really easily be deceived when it comes
to big money. . . . And it happened twice in my life in a very significant way. So, she
tried to commit suicide while Pluto was going over this, and then it was revealed what
had happened. And I had to commit my mother into a mental institution during that time.
So Pluto purged my ideals of my mother during that time, and I was able to see her for a
mentally ill woman who needed help. And that was very significant for me, because it
was very healing for me as well.
The participant became disillusioned with her mother and realized she was a mentally ill person
who needed help. MaryAnn correlated this experience with the meaning she attributes to her
natal Neptune Moon conjunction.
MaryAnn was able to forgive her mother‘s behavior because of her compassionate and
forgiving nature. At the same time, she had to commit her mother to a mental institution because
MaryAnn‘s mother was not in control of her behavior. The psychologically difficult experience
of disillusionment with her mother led MaryAnn to readjust their relationships, and ultimately
became a healing process for MaryAnn.
The participant gave many examples of how she sees her actual life experiences and
personal qualities interrelated with meaning of planetary symbolism in her chart. For instance,
she considers her ambitious nature and a strong drive to succeed in her chosen profession an
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expression of the most influential configurations in her chart, a T-square between her Venus,
Saturn, and Pluto close to Midheaven (traditionally associated with career). MaryAnn desires to
contribute something to her field and be respected for her achievements in her profession. In her
words,
I am a very ambitious person. And people do not realize that when they first meet me. I
think I can come across as . . . as a little subdued, but I have this very tight T-square in
my horoscope between Venus square [to] Saturn, [and] Saturn square [to] Pluto. And that
T-square pushes that close to my Midheaven, and it really—I am so driven, I am so
ambitious and so achievement oriented and do not know how to accept failure. I do not
know how to stop pushing myself to excel. I am someone who—it is not that I am power-
hungry; it is that I want to be very well respected—in my field, I want to contribute
something of great importance.
She has a good understanding of the ―planetary energies‖ in her chart, except she does not fully
resonate with or understand the symbolic meaning of Chiron.
MaryAnn uses astrological symbolism for spiritual guidance. For example, MaryAnn
associates her natal North node in Taurus with her life direction and her need to embrace her
intuitive side and spiritual awareness while letting go of the strong need to hold on to material
security. The participant believes in meaningful corrections between the planetary energy and
one‘s destiny. In her philosophy, planets represent energetic forces that imprint on the newborn
at the moment of birth. The soul of the newborn chooses that moment because of the specific life
lessons it needs to embrace; it also gets equipped with particular talents in order to learn those
life lessons. She explained,
I believe that when we take our first life breath, the energy of the planets, wherever they
were lined up, the mathematical degrees, the relationship that they have to other planets
in the sky—all of that is a huge energy field. And when we take our first live breath and
our soul incarnates into the physical body that we are for this lifetime, that energy
imprints onto us in that moment. And the reason why that energy imprints onto us in that
moment is because we have a soul contract where we chose to be born at that moment,
because those were the specific lessons that we needed to embrace in this life.
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MaryAnn believes that God is the Divine force behind the Universe that human beings are a part
of. God is helping people to come close to the Divine state of unconditional love by learning
lessons of life. Each horoscope indicates a direction to that Divine state, if one can learn how to
utilize the planetary energies.
MaryAnn views astrology as a powerful symbolic tool that indicates how to best utilize
one‘s tendencies. She does not consider it a limiting force that conditions or dooms one to be a
certain way, although she does believe that some experiences are unavoidable. Such challenging
experiences are needed to grow and expand one‘s awareness, and they happen because one
chooses them on the soul level. MaryAnn believes that the awareness of one‘s tendencies and
conscious efforts to express them most positively is needed to utilize the energies astrology
symbolizes.
Summary of MaryAnn’s Situated Structure
The situated structure presented above contains many contextual details relevant to the
process of finding meaning with astrological symbolism. In this section, the key constituents
distilled in the situated structure of Participant 1 are summarized in the left column of Table 1.
Corresponding Meaning Units are listed in the right column and may be found in the transcript of
the interview in Appendix D. Meaning units are listed as they relate to the key constituent and
are not chronological, because the participant was giving different examples of the same theme
during the interview.

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Table 1
Key Constituents for Participant 1
Key Constituents for Participant 1 (P1) Meaning Units (MU)
1. For P1, astrology serves as a metaphoric and spiritual system of MU 1-12, 21

guidance that helps her to understand the purpose and meaning of
significant life experiences. P1 has to expand her understanding
accessed with astrology when faced with unexpected or challenging
life situations.
2. P1 uses astrological symbols to identify negative and positive MU 13, 16, 20, 28,
personal psychological qualities (self-identification) and express her 29, 30, 31, 36
psychological energy in a constructive way. P1‘s understanding of
the meaning associated with the astrological symbolism has been
evolving over time from literal to more archetypal and symbolic.
3. P1 uses astrology for gaining a deeper self-understanding and MU 14, 17, 22, 29
self-validation, including the understanding of her psychological
dynamics, needs, strengths and weakness, and imprints of her
childhood experiences.
4. P1 experiences feelings of reassurance and certainty when she is able MU 19, 32, 34, 35
to anticipate the timing and duration of challenging experience using
her knowledge of astrological transits. P1 felt uncertainty and anxiety
when associating negative or ambiguous literal interpretations with
the astrological symbolism of her chart.
5. P1 understood the dynamics and change in her relationship with MU 24-28

significant others by reflecting on the meaning associated with
astrological transits to her chart.
6. P1‘s view of life as meaningful and purposeful informs her belief in MU 21, 38, 39, 40
astrology as a symbolic and spiritual guiding system, which provides
symbolic access to her life‘s purpose.
Participant 2: Iris’s Situated Structure
―Iris‖ is a 31-year-old American-Pakistani female, born and raised in the United States, in
a family of immigrants. She currently resides in the San Francisco Bay Area. Iris has a Master‘s
degree in counseling psychology and works as a therapist and business consultant. She identified
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her spiritual orientation as ―learning/unlearning,‖ refusing to classify it in any traditional sense.
Iris has considerable familiarity with astrology and has been using it for personal growth for a
number of years.
Iris first got seriously interested in astrology when she came across some astrological sun
sign columns written in such positive language that it encouraged her to think positively. During
a challenging period of her life, and in spite of having support, Iris did not have much hope and
saw everything pessimistically. Reading the optimistic and nonpatronizing astrological columns
felt positive and supportive to her. Iris stated,
I started reading horoscopes online and I found this English astrologer named Jonathan
Cainer, and he is a sun sign astrologer mostly and he speaks in very positive terms and it
just sounds really sweet and he makes you think positively. And that was a dark period in
my life, I was not thinking positively about anything and it was really a struggle, and
everything that I could think of rationally looked pretty negative so—and emotionally
too. I was supported but I was not in a very hopeful place so the way he wrote seemed to
be optimistic in a way that wasn‘t exactly patronizing even if I could feel that he was
exaggerating sometimes.
Iris had been reading online horoscopes but was embarrassed to admit her interest in
astrology to her friends. When one of them introduced her to a popular astrological site, Iris
became so captivated and fascinated with studying astrology that it took precedence over her
formal studies at the university. Iris first came across the psychological approach to astrology
when she was introduced to the writings of Liz Greene and Robert Hand.
The participant appreciated the in-depth psychological analysis psychological astrology
had to offer, as opposed to mere fortune telling. In fact, although she had been treated by
psychiatrists for a long time, Iris felt that her exposure to psychological astrology provided her
for the first time with many relevant and psychologically sophisticated insights into her behavior.
She explained,
They [Greene and Hand] do a psychological kind of astrology which was really nice; it
was not sort of this showoff-y kind of stuff that you associate with fortune telling, and it
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was also a very neat kind of psychological analysis. I had been going to psychiatrists for
years at that point and never had I had interpretations that felt like they actually had any
psychological sophistication or literacy. So astrology was really the first time that I had
found psychology to offer something. I knew that it could, but it just never had until I
found these interpretations and I really liked them.
Iris often feels negative about herself, which she associates with the symbolic meaning of
her natal Saturn in Virgo in the 12th house of her horoscope. The participant gained better self-
understanding and positive encouragement when she read astrological interpretations that
emphasized a need for humor and self-confidence. An astrological description of Saturn in Virgo
that advised Iris to be more humorous and confident reaffirmed the truth that she had already
known and encouraged her to make changes in behavior.
Iris does not use astrology for organizing her daily activities, but she often utilizes it to
understand people. For example, in a recent relationship she and her boyfriend had their Moon
conjunct the North Node of the partner, and she experienced it as a strong influence in their
relationship. Iris is interested in sun sign astrology because she learns from the other astrologers‘
interpretations of the particular patterns, and she occasionally finds insightful and revealing
information in them. Even incorrect interpretations do not undermine her interest in sun sign
astrology.
The reflection on the meaning of her natal Moon in Aries enabled Iris to identify a
psychological pattern of relating: an attraction to strong women and a need to be careful around
them due to Iris‘s sensitivity. This understanding helped the participant to be more accepting of
her difficulty in forming relationships with women, except those who have strong masculine
qualities. Iris said,
I have a lot of friends who are Aries and my Moon is in Aries and so I notice that I am
very attracted to them and I have to watch my attraction because, I mean, it is a Moon in
Aries and it is considered a little rough but it is actually very sensitive and Sun in Aries is
not Moon in Aries. So I have to be careful because sometimes I can get hurt.
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The participant also realized the need to balance out her inward-focused nature and extroverted
tendencies. Currently, however, Iris is ambivalent about pursuing more astrological knowledge
due to the fear that it may lead to a purely conceptual understanding of her behavior, detached
from the physical experiences in the moment.
Iris gave many examples of how she perceives and experiences the symbolic meaning of
the planets in her chart. For example, the participant associates her natal Moon in Aries with her
active nature and abundant energy in pursuing her interests. Iris noticed that she needed a
relational context to keep her interest going, which she attributes to the seventh house placement
of her Moon. In Iris‘s words,
I want to do things. Absolutely, I want to do things. I hear about something and then I
want to do it. I have a lot of energy around doing that thing. Now I may not be so easy to
keep up with it, unless my partners are also into it and we can make it something that‘s
meaningful on an ongoing level in terms of partnerships and I think that‘s the 7th house
aspect. But yeah, I mean, I get excited about things.
In another example of how she experiences the Moon in Aries, Iris discussed that she was
dissatisfied in a particular relationship but was passive about leaving it. During the Moon in
Aries transit, Iris had a strong impulse to speak what she was feeling in the moment, even if it
did not reflect her deeper feelings.
Iris does not have an understanding of all of the symbolic elements of her chart. She finds
meaningful associations between her experiences and astrological transits to her chart. During
the transit of Jupiter to her sixth house traditionally associated with illness, she is dealing with
old health issues. She gave an example.
Right now Jupiter is in my 6th house and I just found a wonderful acupuncturist and a
very old Chinese medical doctor who says he is going to cure me of some problems that I
have from a long time ago. And one of them is liver, and you know Sagittarians typically
have problems with the liver, or they need to be careful of their liver and with Sun
Neptune‘s conjunction and some other factors in the chart, I know that I‘m supposed to
be very attentive to [any] intoxicants and not overdo it.
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Iris considers her ongoing liver problems typical for Sagittarius and intoxication symbolically
represented by her natal Sun Neptune conjunction. Iris finds reaffirmation and deeper
understanding of her predisposition to certain health issues in the symbolic meaning of her chart,
which reinforces her commitment to taking care of her health.
During the transit to her sixth house, Iris had the experience of finding a good doctor she
trusted. The participant, however, had difficulty believing that a well-trained doctor can cure her
health problems because she attributed a negative meaning to her chart symbolism with regard to
her health. She doubts that she can be cured of the permanent health issues because of her chart
configuration. Iris explained,
I found this great doctor . . . and I know that this man is the favorite of the people in the
local excellent Chinese medical school who I trust. And he learned from his own
grandfather. And here is an example of where I use astrology in a negative way. I think:
Oh, well, I have the North node in Virgo, and I have the South node in the 6th house, so
maybe he cannot cure me. Maybe there is something about my illness that has to
remain—I will always have problems. You never know—we will see, you know? That‘s
one way in which I use it [astrology] negatively.
Iris judges herself for the qualities symbolized in her chart that she considers undesirable or
weak. The participant considers such use of astrology negative.
Iris positively uses astrology to gain better psychological understanding of others. She
sometimes sees a literal representation of a certain psychological pattern but usually looks for a
more in-depth insight. When reflecting on the astrological symbolism of her chart, the participant
reaffirms her own positive qualities or anticipates being fortunate in particular areas of life that
feel positive for her. Iris worries that her tendency to think negatively about herself and to be
susceptible to unfavorable interpretations makes astrology a potentially unsuitable system of
thought for her. She said,
I tend to constrain myself or to judge myself or be harsh on myself. Or I take the idea of
having [my] chart ruler in detriment and use it to make myself feel bad. Also [my natal]
Moon [is] in a masculine sign, I used that to make myself feel bad. And then all those
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planets in the 3rd house [are] weak. I can really judge myself in a spiritual way with those
kinds of pronouncements, and so I have to really—I can say I should be careful.
Iris associates her tendency to think negatively with particular astrological patterns in her chart.
Thus, knowledge of astrology helps Iris to find positive encouragement, but it is not helpful
when Iris identifies with negative or rigid interpretations.
Iris uses astrology to understand psychological dynamics in her personal and romantic
relationships. She uses astrology less for understanding relationships that are not intimate for the
fear of being intrusive. She does not feel she has the right to influence others based on her
astrological understanding. Iris‘s knowledge of astrology does not necessarily inform her
behavior in relationships with others. However, the participant identifies some of her patterns of
relating by reflecting on the meaning of her chart. For example, Iris is aware of her attraction to
men who remind her of her father.
Iris finds positive astrological interpretations of what is traditionally considered difficult
hopeful and encouraging. It helps her stop self-criticism and instead look for new ways to change
difficult dynamics into more harmonious ones. The idea that challenging inner dynamics
represented by the difficult astrological aspects can be transformed into the harmonious ones
with enough work on her part is intriguing and hopeful for Iris. She explained,
I cannot remember who said it once, but maybe it was Rick Tarnas. He said that any
[challenging] contact between planets has the possibility of having the energy of the
trine; you just have to make it get there. So that is kind of interesting to me. I would like
to figure that out.
Iris explored her internal expectations of depth, competence, and seriousness as she sees
symbolized by Saturn in Virgo. Iris experiences Saturn as silent and shutting Mercury down in
his expression when she explores their challenging square aspect in her chart. Reflection on the
symbolism of Mercury in her chart gives Iris a better sense of her inner dynamics. Iris finds a
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proposed solution that would allow her to balance out internal challenges in expressing her
thoughts represented by Saturn Mercury square.
Iris created a metaphor to illustrate how her challenging inner dynamic represented by
Saturn Mercury square may work out. She compared this to a couple‘s therapy, where feelings of
love and friendship may help two people to communicate better, without being threatened by
each other. Iris explored how a challenging dynamic represented by two planets in a square
aspect may be worked out more harmoniously with the help of other planets that represent other
psychic forces in her chart and are interdependent with one another.
Iris described a stressful time in her life which she later understood better with her
astrological knowledge. When Pluto transited Iris‘s natal Sun and Neptune conjunction, she was
committed to a mental hospital, which was a culmination of the built-up stress and Iris‘s inability
to resolve it. In Iris‘s words,
When Pluto crossed my Sun and Neptune, I went into a mental hospital. And that is not
all that happened, really. There had been so much stress building for a really long time.
And I was in a relationship that I could not get out of and I was also very depressed, and
there was a feeling of total misunderstanding, and I was very addicted to some drugs that
I was getting, actually, from the psychiatrist, along with some other things. So, those
things needed to change, and I had no way of doing it consciously.
Iris knew that there had to be changes in her life, but she lacked direction. Her studies in school
were not providing any philosophical ground for her to find meaning in her experiences.
Iris‘s commitment to a mental hospital and treatment with heavy drugs was a difficult
experience that affected her ability to speak for a while. The participant now sees this experience
as a result of Pluto transit ―breaking everything‖ in her life. Iris temporarily lost her ability to
communicate fluently, which was devastating because she completely identified herself with this
function. Iris explained,
I went through what I now call a spiritual emergence, and went into rehab and I was
completely in the dark there and given heavy drugs and tests in a mental hospital, and I
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could not speak after that in complete sentences for a couple of years. So, that is Pluto.
And it was breaking everything up. For me to lose the capacity for language, which was
something with which I had identified myself completely for most of my life, as being a
fluent speaker, was devastating.
The positive outcome of the difficult experience was that the participant also overcame her
addiction to medical drugs and began an exploration of psychology at that time.
Iris did not know astrology during the stressful time she described. When she learned
astrological meanings of planetary transits, the participant was amazed by how accurately they
described her difficult experiences, and they helped her to understand them better. Prior to
finding astrology, Iris could not make sense out of her difficult experiences because she did not
have a belief structure or a support system that would help her find meaning in them.
Iris started studying astrology while she was still seeing a psychiatrist who had a
materialistic approach to life and could not provide Iris with adequate support or a system that
would aid her in understanding her difficult experiences. Iris was drawn to astrology for its
framework, which allowed her to find meaning in the most difficult experiences and to gain the
psychological benefits of clarity by understanding them. It was a different perspective than the
one she had been exposed to up until then.
Iris views planets as archetypes that represent patterns of energy meaningful to large
groups of people over long periods of time. The influence of such archetypes is broad, has many
layers, and cannot be fully understood, but people are always drawn to understanding them more.
Iris uses astrological archetypes to understand her behavior and to understand social changes.
She follows transits of Saturn and the trans-Saturnian planets, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto for
that but feels she does not have enough life experience to fully comprehend their meaning.
Iris tries to use astrology to understand global and societal changes but feels she is not
able yet to gain full insight into what is happening because of her young age. She remains open
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about meanings she finds through astrology, as her knowledge grows and understanding of
particular situations and events evolves as well. Iris prefers not to attach fixed meanings through
astrology. She stated,
You know, the planets are very conveniently named for the gods and goddesses. So, it is
very clear that they have relationships to sort of patterns of energy that are meaningful or
significant in groups of people over long periods of time. And, you know, when you have
that kind of pattern, you can call it an archetype—something that is transpersonal that is
influential in more ways than we can understand, but we are always drawn to try to
understand them.
The participant studies correlations between the astrological aspects in the charts of
famous intellectuals and writers and their sayings, which she found on one of the astrological
sites. It is intriguing for her to distinguish between perception and projections, and she considers
that projections are interwoven into the biological mechanism of perception. In other words,
people tend to see what they believe to be there.
Iris has an interest in attachment-oriented psychotherapy, and she reaffirms that it is
especially attractive to her because of her own unfulfilled needs for attachment as represented by
the Moon in her seventh house. She explained it this way.
I know, for example, that I have [my] Moon in the 7th or 8th house, and I am very much
interested in attachment-oriented psychotherapy—interpersonal psychotherapy. And so I
think, I know that is what works for me. It was what I was seeking for so many years. It
was what was absent in my culture and absent in my life.
Iris does not have a definitive sense about herself through astrology; she tries to
distinguish what is personal in her chart from what is cultural. She compares astrology to a back
mirror on the car that allows seeing something that otherwise cannot be seen. Iris used to use a
predictive branch of astrology called horary but does not do this anymore. She found it to be
inaccurate and therefore chooses to focus more on psychological astrology with emphasis on
psychological patterns and dynamics.

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Summary of Iris’s Situated Structure
In this section, the key constituents distilled in the situated structure of Participant 2 are
summarized in the left column of Table 2. Corresponding Meaning Units are listed in the right
column and may be found in the transcript of the interview in Appendix D. Meaning units are
listed as they relate to the key constituent and are not chronological, because the participant was
giving different examples of the same theme during the interview.
Table 2
1. P2 found psychological support such as a sense of hopefulness and MU 1, 2 , 23, 28, 29

positive encouragement during her study of astrology.
2. In spite of being seen by psychiatrists for years, P2 discovered first MU 4-7, 12, 14, 30-
in-depth psychological insights into her behavior when she was 33, 37, 38, 54, 55
introduced to psychological astrology. P2 values the ability to gain
sophisticated self-knowledge with astrology; she has not been
interested in fortune telling.
3. P2 uses astrology to gain insight into other people‘s psychological MU 8-11, 15, 22, 25,
dynamics and her own patterns of relating. Her insights do not 26, 27
necessarily inform her behavior, nor does she organize her daily
activities based on astrology. Instead she sees astrology as a
different lens of understanding self and others.
4. P2 has apprehensions about continuous study of astrology due to the MU 13, 20, 21, 24
fear of overly conceptualizing her experiences and being
disconnected from her moment-to-moment body experiences. She
occasionally doubts that astrology is beneficial for her, because of
P2‘s propensity to harsh self-judgments and identification with
negative descriptions.
5. P2 finds meaningful correlations between her experiences and the MU 17, 18, 39-42, 44,
symbolic meanings associated with astrological transits. 45
6. P2 values astrology as a system of spiritual/philosophical guidance MU 46, 47
which is able to provide meaningful explanations for her confusing
or difficult experiences: something she was unable to find prior to
her exposure to astrology. (continued)
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7. P2 employs astrology archetypal symbolism to understand social and MU 48, 49, 50, 51
cultural developments even though she is not yet able to fully grasp
them because of her young age.
8. P2 remains open about the meanings she finds through astrology and MU 50
does not treat astrological symbolism as fixed. Over time, her
knowledge grows and understanding of particular symbolism in
relation to her life evolves.
Participant 3: Alex’s Situated Structure
―Alex‖ is a 47-year-old Caucasian male, born in Eastern Europe but raised in the United
States after immigrating with his family. He resides in the San Francisco Bay area and currently
is establishing himself as a psychologist and consultant after the recent completion of his
dissertation. Alex has long-term interest in astrology and familiarity with its theories and
symbolism, which he uses primarily for reflections and personal growth. Alex identifies with
Christian Mysticism as his primary spiritual orientation.
Alex uses astrology to gain deeper self-knowledge. He identifies and validates his
internal qualities by reflecting on the meanings of astrological symbols. For example, Alex
appreciates his humorous approach to anger, which he associates with the symbolic meaning of
his natal Mars in Leo. He strongly identifies with the symbolic meaning of the Moon in
Sagittarius in his chart, which he considers representative of his enjoyment of long distance
travel and a deep drive for independence. In his words,
I used my birth charts to understand my character tendencies or temperament. For

instance, one of the aspects I have [is between] Saturn in Aries and Moon in Sagittarius. I
use it kind of to explain my drive for independence and freedom. At the same time, there
are upsetting tendencies, like the Neptune rising in Scorpio. It leads toward a tendency
towards idealism, daydreaming, and also romanticizing. And it actually tends to upset or
counteract the fiery tendencies.
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Alex explored in many examples one of the most significant astrological configurations
in his chart—a T-square aspect between his Moon, Venus, and Pluto. He derives multiple
meanings by reflecting on astrological patterns in his chart. They represent both Alex‘s internal
psychological drives and dynamics, and, at the same time, his external relationships or
experiences. He exemplified the multidimensional meaning of the Moon square Pluto in his chart
as representing the complex relationship with his mother and the tension he experiences between
wanting to be free and holding himself back.
It is a tension, because the Moon symbolizes the mother, and Pluto is [little laugh] a
source of tension. It is considered symbolically as a discarding mechanism—there‘s kind
of a drive to—or a struggle, and to separate myself from my mother, or a kind of feel that
mother exerts a smothering influence, especially because Sagittarius is characterized by
inner drive for independence and freedom.
During the interview, Alex created a new meaning association between his inner tension
and the Moon Neptune aspect in his chart with the Moon sending an aspect to Alex‘s ascendant.
Alex views Neptune in the first house of his natal chart as a symbol of a tendency toward
daydreaming and escapism, interest in artistic endeavors, and general passivity and dreaminess,
whereas the Moon symbolizes his drive for autonomy and independence.
To Alex, the T-square between the moon Pluto and Venus represents another meaningful
internal dynamic: his conflicted desires about intimate relationships. On one hand, Alex desires a
close, ―smothering‖ relationship, like the one he had with his mother, and, at the same time, he
strives for independence. In his words,
Whenever I am dating a woman or whenever I am associating with women, to some

extent, instinctually or sometimes unconsciously or sometimes even consciously, I start
forming association with my mom. And I try to look for whatever evidence, you know.
On one hand, I try to encourage her to become like maybe like my mom. On the other
hand, as soon as she displays this neediness, then I try to push her away.
Alex noted that the tension existed in his psyche between a drive for autonomy and
independence symbolically represented by both Pluto and Sagittarius and his sense of caring, and
111
relating to his mother, he associated with Venus. Alex also considered that Venus represented his
sense of guilt for not being caring enough about his mother when he experienced a strong
psychic drive for individuation and separation from her. The tension manifests as a polarity
between the desire to resolve the conflict by taking some action and the opposing desire to break
up the relationship.
When invited to further explore the meaning of the Moon, Alex encouraged himself to
separate from his connection with his mother and to stop daydreaming and escaping, but rather to
make free connections, move, and live his life independently. In Alex‘s internal understanding,
his Moon in Sagittarius‘s ―message‖ to him is,
Come on, just stop rationalizing and idealizing and day-dreaming and escaping. Just go
take some free connection, you know, go move or go separate from your mom and see
what it is like for you. Just live your life. You know, and then do it separately . . . life is a
journey, you know, so why not make the best of it? Why not actually literally take a
journey? Why sit in one place? It makes no sense to do that.
When he explored the internal meaning of Venus, Alex questioned himself about his
relationship with his mother and others, love, and being compassionate. The participant
expressed the message of his Venus in Pisces in this way.
You know, there is all this drive for independence, drive for autonomy, but then you are
kind of throwing the baby literally with the bathwater, you know? You are undervaluing
the relational aspects. You are overvaluing the self-expression—this creative drive. That
is very true, but at the same time, what about the compassion, what about the
relationship? How does that come across? Are you really being caring, if all you think
about is self-expression?
Alex felt that his drive for autonomy, independence, and self-expression could come at a cost of
losing important relationships and criticized himself for putting his needs first and being
unconcerned about what effect they may have on the significant others.
Alex attributes a particular significance to the symbolism of Pluto in his chart because it
is the modern ruler of his rising sign, Scorpio. Alex views Pluto energy as a need for control but
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by learning to let go and releasing rather than clinging and holding on to the desired objects. In
his words, Pluto‘s message
gets kind of philosophical—it says, you know, everything passes, so there is no real need
to get attached—that you will lose your mom. Your mom will die. And that is a fact. That
is why kind of your preoccupation and your attachment, they are all temporary, and to a
sense it is vanity, you know. It is pointless.
Alex observes that in his personal relationships he attracts people by creating space and letting
go and repels by being clingy. Alex views Pluto as influential and representative of the need to
release what is unnecessary. He considers the recent change of Pluto‘s astronomical status—its
not being considered a planet anymore—to be a sign of misunderstanding and denial of its true
significance.
Alex frequently employs astrology to evaluate the areas of compatibility and tension in
his relationships with friends and partners. He finds that the insights gathered via astrology are
surprisingly accurate. For example, Alex experienced some tension and power struggle with one
of his friends—the dynamics he was able to recognize more clearly when he noticed the Sun
Pluto cross aspects between his and his friend‘s charts. At the same time, Alex understood the
ability to communicate positively with his friend by noticing the harmonious cross aspects of
Mercury between his and his friend‘s charts. In Western astrology, two charts may be compared
for cross aspects between the planets in them which are associated symbolically with the
relationship‘s strengths and weaknesses.
Astrological knowledge helps Alex to put things into perspective and to gain
understanding and insight, but it does not alter his behavior. Alex uses this knowledge for
reflection rather than taking action. For example, in spite of having insight into the dynamics of
the relationship with his mother, Alex still experiences the inner tension between wanting to
break away from her and not having enough courage to do so. He explained,
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There is still this pulling back and forth right now, you know, because of all the therapy I
had and all of those insights. I might have better understanding [of] my mom‘s
perspective . . . but this still does not give me the courage to initiate the breakthrough or
the breakup—separation.
At the same time, Alex believes that any experience may be a source of some new insight and is
intrigued by the new astrological knowledge hoping that it may offer guidance for solving inner
tensions. Alex considers this belief idealistic and associates it with his Neptune in Scorpio in the
first house.
Alex gains deeper recognition of complex psychological patterns of relating to significant
others by reflecting on the meaning of Venus in Pisces in his astrological chart. The participant
often experiences deep compassion in relationships. He may fuse with another person but lose
connection to his own experience if it is significantly different from the other person‘s. He
stated,
I see Venus more like representing compassion. And compassion is really about merging.
And the true compassion, to some extent, I am actually losing the connection to my own
experience, if it differs significantly from the other person. So, yes, it does involve some
symbiotic fusion.
Alex considers his tendency for self-effacing sacrifice and losing himself to be negative
expressions of Venus in Pisces. When this happens, it is painful for him. On the contrary,
deliberate compassion is a positive expression of his ability to become completely
nonjudgmental, merge with another person intrapsychically, and see their perspective fully. The
drawback is that in this process, Alex does not express his own needs and drives fully; he lets
them go, but later regrets not having spoken his truth.
Alex considered that the easiest path to resolving his inner conflict would be in
embracing and fully experiencing a capacity for devotional love, the highest manifestation of
Venus in Pisces. He sees the higher potential in being a devoted child, son, or lover and not
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putting his own needs and drives first. Alex has not allowed himself to experience devotional
love fully, but he sees a potential for doing so by becoming a healer.
Retrospective analysis of the planetary transits allows for finding meaning and
understanding past experiences in a deeper way. For Alex, planetary transits are descriptive of
his internal and external experiences. He employs retrospective analysis of the planetary transits
to his chart to explain and understand his experiences at that time. For example, when Pluto
transited over his natal Moon, Alex had a strong drive to separate from the attachment with his
mother.
Alex is aware of the current astrological transits to his chart. He sometimes attributes his
own meanings to the astrological transits and sometimes relies on printed guides. For instance,
he recently had a semi sextile between transiting Uranus and his natal Sun, which he experienced
as a tension in one of his friendships. After reading a general interpretation of this transit in a
book, Alex gained better understanding of his experience.
Alex utilizes astrology mostly as a helpful tool for reflection and finding meaning, but
rarely for predicting his future. The participant started to use astrology in approximately 1998,
after being introduced to it by a friend. He could not remember a time when astrology was not
helpful to him. He most frequently applies it in retrospect to past experiences or to better
understand his character tendencies but resists basing his future choices on astrology. He
believes that this would create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Alex said,
One thing I am doing in most cases, unless something is very outstanding, I try to use
astrology more in retrospect, to make sense of events that happened . . . in recent past.
Unless something extreme [is going on], I try not to base my behavior in the future based
on astrological predictions, because I am afraid that part of it [laughing a little] may be a
self-fulfilling prophecy that to some extent I may create my future. And I am even
resistant to the notion of doing that.
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Occasionally, Alex uses predictive astrology by looking at the transits of the outer planets, Pluto,
Uranus, and Neptune to his chart. He estimates what kind of conflicts he may have to face based
on the aspects of the outer planets to his natal planets.
Alex has used astrocartography—a branch of astrology that focuses on how particular
geographical locations may impact the individual (Lewis & Irving, 1997). Alex was looking for
new ideas about potentially suitable places for relocation. He observed that the information he
found with astrology in most cases matched his own intuition. Alex considers astrology
especially helpful for enabling the discovery of new self-knowledge.
Alex understands some astrological patterns in his chart less than others. For example, he
does not have full understanding of the meaning and influences of his natal Saturn in Aquarius.
He currently associates his defense mechanism of rationalizing and being impersonal in
relationships with a darker manifestation of Aquarius. Alex explained,
I am still trying to understand some of the Saturnian influence—you know, Saturn in

Aquarius. Like, one of my major defense mechanisms is rationalizing, intellectualizing,
which is one of the darker sides of Aquarius—being kind of impersonal. And it has
manifested kind of in challenging ways in relationships, where I go toward that defense
mechanism much more often than I do utilize other forms of defense.
Alex observed that he used this defense mechanism more frequently than others, and it created
challenges in his relationships. He also remembered the traditional association between Saturn
and the dead. Alex considers that his natal Saturn represents challenges, but he does not know
how to work with them. Alex attributes to Aquarius the sense of impermanence and transience.
He feels that time erases everything good and bad including his past mistakes. Nothing lasts, but
if he tries something new he starts completely anew, as if in a blank slate.
Alex believes in astrology because it provides insights into the nature of events and
relationships. He found validation of astrology by getting unfailingly accurate information about
past events and character traits. Alex verifies astrology with his experience but primarily sees it
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as a symbolic tool, less frequently a predictive one. He employs astrology to understand his
experiences in hindsight but does not alter his future behavior based on this knowledge.
Consequently, Alex does not believe that astrology represents the causes of his behavior, or
causes the particular events, rather he sees it as a symbolic representation of the above. Alex‘s
key constituents are summarized in Table 3.
Summary of Alex’s Situated Structure
The key constituents distilled in the situated structure of Participant 3 are summarized in
the left column of Table 3. Corresponding Meaning Units are listed in the right column and may
be found in the transcript of the interview in Appendix D. Meaning units are listed as they relate
to the key constituent and are not chronological, because the participant was giving different
examples of the same theme during the interview.
Table 3
1. P3 uses astrology to gain deeper self-knowledge. He identifies and MU 1, 5, 6, 11, 16,

validates his internal qualities by comparing the meanings associated 17, 26, 28, 31, 46, 50,
with the astrological symbolism and his experiences. 52, 57, 59
2. P3 derives multiple meanings by reflecting on the astrological MU 4, 7, 8, 29, 32-37,

symbolism in his chart. The meanings maybe illuminating his 42, 53 - 55
interpersonal relationships and life circumstances, and, at the same
time, P3‘s internal psychological dynamics.
3. P3 frequently employs astrology to evaluate areas of compatibility MU 8, 9, 18, 19, 20,

and tension in his relationships with significant others. 21, 22, 27, 38, 39, 41,
42, 61
4. Retrospective analysis of planetary transits allows P3 to find MU 2, 12, 13, 24, 62

meaning and deeper understanding of past experiences. P3 is aware
of his current astrological transits, and he is interested in finding
symbolic and archetypal meanings illuminating his experiences. (continued)
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5. P3 utilizes astrology as a tool for reflection and finding meaning in MU 13-15, 23, 25, 47,
past experiences but rarely for predicting the future. P3 is looking to 51, 63
astrology for symbolic guidance helpful for solving inner and outer
conflicts, but not something that ―causes‖ his experiences or
determines his future behavior.
Participant 4: Hardy’s Situated Structure
―Hardy‖ is a 60-year-old Caucasian male, born and raised in the United States and
residing in the San Francisco Bay Area. He is a professional astrologer and owner of an
astrological software company. Hardy has been involved with astrology for almost 40 years and
considers it his mission to spread understanding of astrology among others. Hardy‘s interest in
astrology appeared in the cultural atmosphere of Berkley in the 70s when the mystical nature of
the universe was a popular topic. He studied tarot cards, and as they have astrological
symbolism, he became interested in astrology as well. A second introduction occurred when a
college friend exposed Hardy to the basic elements of astrology. Hardy felt that he had an
aptitude for astrology and developed deep interest in studying it.
Hardy‘s studies of astrology enabled new awareness of his personality traits and
recognition of his most essential psychological qualities. One of the first things the participant
learned about his chart was that his natal Moon was in Leo and in a degree close to his mother‘s
natal Sun. Hardy became aware that this conjunction symbolized the fact that he had taken on a
part of his mother‘s psychological makeup. He also recognized the importance of particular
psychological qualities in his personality, such as the need to be active and make things happen,
as symbolized by the abundant fire element in Hardy‘s chart. Hardy stated,
I began to learn of the elements, you know, that fire is an important element in my chart.
I have a Sagittarius Sun and I have a Leo Moon conjunct a Leo Mars. So very strong fire
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signs. And that was important for me to realize that, you know, fire signs are all about
going and going and making things happen, a lot of stamina, a lot of activity, a lot of joy
in doing, you know, and making things work and going and going and going. And that is
a very good description. I have always been very active and wanted to cram a lot of
things into a day—into an hour.
Reflection on astrological meanings in his chart often produced a shift in Hardy‘s
perspective from internal and subjective to a more objective and broader point of view. For
example, understanding the meaning of Venus in Scorpio in his chart enabled the recognition of
a strong sexual component to Hardy‘s personality and a desire for deep relationships. The
participant observed that he cannot relate superficially even in casual relationships or chance
meetings. Hardy often experiences that even passing encounters turn into deep connections for
him. Over time, he has been learning to see a fuller picture of relationship where a sexual
element is only one factor among others. The participant also recognizes his experience of being
engulfed, losing boundaries, and being wrapped into another person in the symbolic meaning of
Venus in Scorpio square Pluto aspect in his chart. Hardy explained,
I think that the traditional understanding of Venus in Scorpio is that there is a period of
time in the early life when the sexual side of relationship becomes the most important, or
is the most important thing initially. And then you learn to work with that energy and to
realize that that is only one factor in relationship and that, you know, you cannot
approach it from that direction. You have to make that part of a bigger picture of
relationship. You know, that is something that I have gone through . . . learning what is
the relationship really about and how does sex relate to that—the whole picture. Also the
whole idea of becoming engulfed in another factor in there, because I not only have the
Venus in Scorpio but it is square to Pluto.
In contrast, Hardy attributes his internal experience of feeling light and optimistic to his
Sagittarius Sun, and Jupiter, the traditional ruler of Sagittarius, rising in his chart. On the
negative side, Hardy experiences his Sagittarian energy as being scattered and sidetracked by
many different activities from the more fundamental priorities that require his attention. He
considers it his life lesson to be able to say no to less significant activities and prioritize.
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Hardy associates the Moon in Leo in his chart with his desire for attention and
recognition by other people, loyalty in friendships, and also his generosity and enjoyment of
being and doing in the world. Hardy attributes his experience of being lucky, internal optimism,
courage, and perseverance in the face of difficulties to his Sun Moon trine in fire signs. The
participant is intrigued by the correlations between the meanings found with astrology and
observations about his life. Hardy values the ability that his study of astrology provides: being
able to see his experiences from a different perspective.
Hardy does not refer to astrology for interpretation of his daily experiences or
information about future choices. Sometimes, he may notice an archetypal energy in his
experience prior to looking at his chart, and other times in reverse. Hardy explained,
Many times it will be from the standpoint of I will recognize the archetype before I look
and see it in the chart. I mean, it can go both ways, you know. If I do look ahead and I
say, oh, this is going to be a really tough day, because my Mars and Pluto are going to be
conjunct or whatever, you know, transiting Mars on my Pluto or something like that. But,
you know, oftentimes it is the other way around, where I will see the energy and I will
say, oh, my gosh, what a weird day—what is happening. And then I will look.
Hardy occasionally attempts to predict challenging days astrologically, but more frequently he
looks to astrology in retrospect when he needs to gain more understanding of past stressful
experiences. The participant does not always find astrological timing to precisely correspond to
his experiences. He frequently finds correlations and explanations to his experiences post factum.
For example, Hardy had anticipated that the day of the New Moon conjunction Uranus would be
significant, but some important events occurred the day before.
Hardy repeatedly refers to astrology when evaluating the potential of a new relationship;
he looks at the chart after he has become interested in someone. Occasionally, the participant
becomes more interested in another person when he sees some meaningful connections between
his and the other person‘s charts. Astrology provides another dimension for understanding the
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potential compatibility between two people, but it does not manifest in a predictable manner. In
Hardy‘s words,
Now, I do not tend to look at somebody‘s chart and then pick them. It usually goes the
other way around. But sometimes I have gotten interested partly because after I met them
I have seen the charts line up and so that gives another dimension to my experience of the
other person. Seeing how things line up. But it is a very mystical thing. I mean, you never
know exactly how things are going to manifest. It is not cut and dried, but you can
oftentimes after the fact you can see how that particular aspect manifested. So it just
gives you another dimension to understand the particular ways that people fit together.
More frequently Hardy evaluates the relationship in terms of astrology in retrospect rather than
attempting to predict their future development. For instance, Hardy had a roommate with whom
he had a challenging cross aspect between their natal Moons. Hardy was aware that it indicated
somewhat incompatible styles of life, but he did not know how exactly it would manifest until
they started living together.
Hardy finds astrology reassuring when he is able to recognize the nature of someone‘s
experience and to determine its timing. For example, when his infant son had a high fever, Hardy
noticed that Mars was transiting a sensitive point in his son‘s chart. The participant‘s knowledge
of Mars‘ influence reassured him that his son would recover from the fever quickly after the
Mars transit had passed.
Hardy values the ability to recognize archetypal qualities in his experience by reflecting
on the meaning of his horoscope. When he had a powerful dream about an early wounding in a
relationship with his father, the participant associated it with the meaning of Chiron Sun
conjunction in his chart. Hardy sees Chiron as an archetypal symbol of the childhood wounding
that is being worked out through the adult life. During the Chiron return at age 50, the participant
observed that he had an increased capacity to work with the energies of Chiron and he reached a
deeper understanding of its meaning.

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The study of astrology has helped Hardy to be stronger psychologically and strengthened
his understanding of how to work on personal psychological complexes. Hardy considers
astrology a profoundly helpful tool for in-depth psychological work because astrology provides
symbolic representation of the psychological issues and dynamics. He said,
Working with astrology is very useful and that gives you a good perspective to dive into
some of these things [wounds and complexes] and work with them objectively without
thinking of it as this is your unique problem that nobody has ever had this and you are
just on your own. You know, just as the study of psychology is helpful, because it gives
you a framework to begin to understand some of the traumas and the situations that you
have had to deal with. I think it has made me much stronger psychologically. . . . And I
think my work with the complexes that I have had has been definitely strengthened by the
understanding of the astrology.
Hardy‘s philosophy and understanding of life‘s meaning is largely informed by his study
and work with astrology. He grew up in a Christian household but eventually became
disenchanted with the institution of church and the belief system left by his forefathers. It did not
become a guiding force in Hardy‘s life, and he had to find his own system of meaning. The
participant believes in the ultimate meaningfulness of life and views all circumstances as having
higher purpose. Consequently Hardy does not believe that astrology may be misused because, in
his philosophy, everything, good and bad, serves the higher spiritual purpose—the progressive
continuous evolution of the Universe. Hardy‘s understanding of astrology has deepened and
become a more profound and subtle influence on his life, as astrology turned from a hobby into a
profession in the 1990s. Based on his philosophy, Hardy is continually striving to improve self-
understanding and his actions in the world.
Hardy views astrology as a system that expands a purely materialistic or physical view of
the Universe. The archetypal meaning associated with each planet in astrology constitutes a
system that implies a meaningful Universe. Hardy considers planets as symbolic correlates of
psychological archetypes—a view embraced by modern Western astrology and informed by the
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work of Carl Jung. As an example, Hardy points out that anima—a term coined by Jung and
representing a female aspect in the male psyche—is symbolized by Venus in a man‘s chart.
Conversely, animus—a male aspect in woman‘s psyche—is symbolically represented by Mars in
her chart.
Hardy finds a great sense of purpose in spreading the word about astrology, inspiring
people and helping them to understand their lives better. He also feels that he has a particular
talent for astrology and he was ―meant to do it.‖ Hardy explained:
I believe that everything I do is for a purpose and we are here to help each other evolve,
and so I try to spread a better understanding of what life is about. That is what I have
done in my recent years, since I have been professional—the last maybe 15 years or so. I
have been able to get my own words out to people and to inspire people and to help with
the understanding of what astrology is about and to make it more understandable to many
people. So that has been a great sense of purpose in doing that.
Another sense of purpose for the participant is found in his experience of being a father and a
grandfather and in his efforts to understand the meaning of life through personal relationships.
Hardy considers relationships as one of the keys to finding life‘s meaning.
Hardy continuously evolves his understanding of different astrological symbols in his
chart. For example, the participant associates Neptune with ―slippery‖ and evasive qualities and
looks for a deeper understanding of its influence. Hardy considers Neptune powerful as it
contacts both the Sun and the Moon in his natal chart. The participant associates Neptune‘s
symbolic meaning with his tendency toward idealism, escapism, and some self-deception. At the
same time, the participant associates his awareness of higher planes of existence and the
significance of music and poetry in his life with another manifestation of Neptune symbolism.
Hardy continuously balances living in the physical ―real‖ world and not escaping into
illusion with maintaining an awareness of other planes of existence. The participant is fascinated
with the symbolic meaning of Mars, the Moon, and Pluto positioned together on top of his natal
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chart. According to Western astrology, he explained, planets thus positioned are prominent and
express themselves in activity, prestige, and work. Hardy‘s understanding of this astrological
configuration helped him to identify and reaffirm the active and independent energy he exerts in
his professional life, by always doing ―his own thing‖ in a nonconformist, iconoclastic way. He
explained,
I have Mars, the Moon and Pluto all together at the top of the chart and anything near the
top of the chart is very prominent in life and shows in activity and it shows in prestige
and it shows in work. And so having all that energy up there, I think I am constantly
getting out there and doing my own thing and iconoclastic in the sense of not being
subject to the normal way of doing things. I am always kind of doing my own thing.
Hardy associates his natal moon in Leo with the feelings of being proud of himself for
making his own way in the world. Hardy enjoys presenting and selling to other people the
astrological software he created. He is proud that he is able to help people gain new insights into
their lives and give them tools for such exploration. Knowledge of astrology reaffirms Hardy‘s
self-knowledge and gives him symbolic tools to expand it. It also enables him to identify and be
proud of his qualities and talents. For example, Hardy takes pride in his ability to be an
entrepreneur and educator, and he enjoys his professional life—experiences he associates with
the stellium of the Moon, Mars, and Pluto on top of his chart, and Uranus in the eighth house.
Currently the participant is working on discovering and attributing meaning to a newly
discovered asteroid Eris. The new meaning is found by observing historical and social
occurrences of our times and correlating them with the archetypal meaning of Eris. Hardy
explained that is how new meaning was attributed to Pluto when it was discovered in the 1930s.
Plutonian energies were associated with the war, ascension of Nazis, and creation of the atomic
bomb, as these events occurred during the time of Pluto‘s discovery. Hardy believes Eris will
become the next significant archetype in Western astrology.

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Hardy attributes to Eris feminine warrior energy, which is violent in her fight against
stagnation or injustice but rooted in the laws of spiritual evolution. Such fight is not combative,
to Hardy, but has a purpose of making changes that are aligned with higher principles of how
things should be. Hardy considers Eris an important archetype in his chart. It manifested in his
battles for justice while being aligned to the Higher Purpose. In his words,
I attribute feminine warrior energy [to Eris], which is in the service of higher principles.
So that it is somebody who will fight to the death [little laugh] and sometimes in a violent
and bloodthirsty way for what they believe to be necessary to either get them out of a trap
or to handle a situation that is unjust and unfair to other—to certain elements of society.
So, it is a very strong principled stand for what‘s needed or necessary. . . . It is also about
making sure that everything is lined up spiritually with the way things are supposed to be
with a higher principle.
The reflection on Eris‘ meaning helps Hardy to gain self-understanding and see larger
cultural processes that he associates with Eris‘ symbolism. Hardy considers an astrological chart
an important source of archetypal information that could be helpful in understanding not only
individual qualities, but the culture of a country such as the United States for example.
Reflection on astrological transits and occurrences like the recent New Moon, that happened in
the middle of the month and coincided with important events in the world, enables Hardy to view
such events and occurrences in a larger symbolic context.
Hardy follows Jung‘s idea of synchronicity as a basis for how astrology works. He
considers the correlation between the chart and events to be meaningful and symbolic but not
causal. This view convinces him that the Universe is not purely mechanistic or materialistic but
has spiritual connections and Laws. Hardy feels that a skillful astrologer can find a plentitude of
meaningful information in the individual and country charts. He finds evidence of astrology‘s
meaningfulness in his experience by reflecting on astrological archetypes and making parallels to
his life.
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Summary of Hardy’s Situated Structure
In this section, the key constituents distilled in the situated structure of Participant 4 are
summarized in the left column of Table 4. Corresponding Meaning Units are listed in the right
column and may be found in the transcript of the interview in Appendix D. Meaning units are
listed as they relate to the key constituent and are not chronological, because the participant was
giving different examples of the same theme during the interview.
Table 4
1. P4 developed deep interest in studying astrology for its mystical MU 1, 2

nature and because he felt that he had an aptitude for astrology.
2. P4‘s reflections on the astrological meanings associated with his MU 3-7, 9, 10, 27, 28,
chart provided him with new psychological insights into his 29, 30, 31, 42-44, 46
behavior, and often produced shifts in his perspective from internal
and subjective to a more objective and broader point of view. Over
time his understanding of astrological symbolism has evolved from
literal and concrete to more symbolic and broad.
3. P4 does not refer to astrology for interpretation of his daily MU 11

experiences or information about future choices.
4. Occasionally, P4 attempts to use astrology for predicting the future, MU 12-14

but more frequently he uses astrology to gain deeper understanding
of past experiences in retrospect. P4 does not always find the timing
of astrologically predicted situations or developments to be precisely
corresponding with his experiences.
5. P4 repeatedly refers to astrology when evaluating the potential of a MU 8, 17, 18

new relationship; however he more frequently uses astrology to
evaluate significant relationships in hindsight rather than attempting
to predict their future. In P4‘s experience, such predictions do not
manifest in a fixed manner.
6. P4 finds astrology reassuring when he is able to recognize the nature MU 19, 20

of his or someone‘s experience and to determine its timing using (continued)
astrological transits.
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7. P4 values the ability to recognize archetypal qualities in his MU 22, 23, 35

experience by reflecting on the meaning of his horoscope and he
continuously evolves his understanding of different astrological
symbols.
8. P4 feels that the study of astrology made him stronger MU 5, 24, 26

psychologically. P4 values astrology as a helpful guide for in-depth
psychological work because of astrology‘s ability to provide
symbolic representation of the psychological issues, complexes, and
dynamics.
9. P4‘s philosophy and understanding of life‘s meaning is significantly MU 15, 32-34, 36,
informed by his study and work with astrology. He was unable to 37, 60, 61, 63
find a meaningful system of guidance until he encountered
astrology. P4 believes that the meaning of life is in constant
evolution and bettering of oneself.
10. P4 finds a strong felt sense of purpose in working with astrology and MU 38, 47, 49, 65
sharing it with other people so they can gain better understanding of
their lives by learning astrology. P4 feels he was ―meant to do it.‖
11. Currently P4 is working on discovering and attributing meaning to a MU 50-55

newly discovered asteroid Eris. The new meaning is found by
observing historical and social occurrences of our times and
correlating them with the archetypal meaning of Eris.
12. P4 considers the chart an important source of archetypal information MU 56, 58, 62
that could be helpful in understanding cultural and social trends.
General Situated Structure
The following section presents the general structure of meaning pertaining to the
phenomenon of finding meaning with astrological symbolism. It contains the key constituents, or
essential elements of meaning, common to all participants. The findings are presented here
without discussing their implications, which are elaborated on in Chapter 5.

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Meaning Shifts Between Symbolic and Literal
Finding meaning with astrology happens when participants employ it as a symbolic
system that represents a broader, more global framework of reference than their internal
subjective perspective allows. The participants reflect on the meanings traditionally associated
with astrological symbolism and compare them to their individual experiences. Finding accurate
correlations between conceptual understanding of an astrological archetype and actual meaning
shifts from symbolic to literal when an ―aha‖ moment occurs and individual experience is
illuminated, such as when MaryAnn correlated the meaning of Neptune to Mercury transit and
her experience of being deceived in communication. Meaning shifts from literal to symbolic
when one‘s concrete experiences are aligned with a collective archetype. Iris correlated her
experience of being committed to a mental institution with the archetypal meaning of the Pluto
transit destroying her self-identity but ultimately leading to her healing.
Astrology as a System of Guidance
Astrology is utilized as a system of guidance and for understanding one‘s ―life lessons‖
and intrapersonal and interpersonal challenges and dynamics, as well as finding a sense of
direction and purpose. Most participants come to astrology not having found a philosophy—a
system of meaning—that would enable them to put their life experiences in broader spiritual
context. Some participants were exposed to purely materialistic philosophies (Iris) that could not
explain their internal experiences, while others (Hardy) got disenchanted with the religions of
their fathers and turned to astrology to find a broad philosophical system of meaning.
For 2 participants (Hardy and MaryAnn) astrology serves as a spiritual system that
informs their philosophy of life. They see the Universe as purposeful and subject to spiritual as
well as physical laws. Individual life purpose is recognized as the evolution and betterment of
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oneself that would fit into the larger schema of the continuously evolving Universe. This
perspective reduces negative feelings connected with challenging and stressful experiences,
which are perceived as ultimately beneficial for the participants.
For example, MaryAnn considered the dissolution of her marriage as the manifestation of
her previously unrecognized and unconscious need to be unusual, and to follow her
nontraditional interests in astrology. She now views challenging experiences in her life as
spiritual lessons she had chosen on a soul level in order to evolve as a human being.
Psychological Benefits: Self-Identification, Self-Validation, and Others
The study of astrology provides a number of psychological benefits for the participants.
All of them are particularly interested in gaining in-depth self-knowledge. Recognition of the
most essential psychological qualities is a valued psychological process that contributes to self-
identification and self-validation. Self-understanding eases inner tensions, promotes self-
acceptance, and often encourages positive changes in behavior.
All 4 participants (MaryAnn, Iris, Alex, Hardy) look to astrology for positive
encouragement, psychological support, and a sense of hope. Some (MaryAnn, Alex, and Hardy)
reaffirm their talents and a sense of purpose. For example, Alex reaffirmed his loving and
healing nature through his understanding of astrological symbolism of Venus in Pisces in his
chart. Hardy recognized the significance of activity and social expression in his life by reflection
on the abundant fire element in his chart. Iris finds astrological interpretations that allow for
transformation of the old patterns inspiring and encouraging.
All participants view astrological knowledge as psychologically beneficial, although Iris
currently fears that overconceptualizing her experiences with astrological meanings would
distract her from gaining insight from living in the moment. At the same time, when she finds
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affirmation of her qualities or positive encouragement, she finds astrology beneficial. In spite of
positive evaluation of astrology‘s benefits, 2 out of 4 participants experienced uncertainty and
fear when faced with ambiguous or negative interpretations.
Meaning and Perceptions of Certainty/Uncertainty
Astrology is reassuring for all participants when it reduces uncertainty. Coping with
challenging experiences is easier when their timing and duration can be approximated and
archetypal nature understood. The occasional ambiguity about astrological meanings and
negative interpretations produces feelings of anxiety. This usually coincides with attributing
unfavorable literal meanings to astrological symbolism, or self-identification with undesirable
qualities. Finding meaning as a process reduces negative feelings of uncertainty and anxiety.
Finding meaning occurs when a specific experience is understood as a purposeful component of
a larger schema with which it is interrelated.
Symbolic Retrospective Process
The participants most often derive meaning from astrological symbolism by applying it to
past experiences in hindsight. Less frequently they refer to astrology for predicting future events,
although all consider transits of planets meaningful for understanding past and future experiences
and occasionally use other predictive branches of astrology. No participants base their day-to-
day choices and behavior on astrology; rather they refer to it as a broad metaphorical system to
put experiences in perspective. However, the participants‘ insights gained with astrology often
lead to transformation of meaning and changes in their behavior. For example, Iris understood
the emotionally difficult experience of commitment to a mental institution as ultimately leading
to her healing. As a result of that experience, she lost her addiction to drugs and started on a path
of self-discovery through psychology.

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Symbolic Meanings Are Evolving and Manifold
The meanings associated with astrological symbolism are evolving and not fixed. They
shift from literal to symbolic, from internal to external, and from superficial to more in-depth,
and in reverse. Multiple meanings often emerge from the same symbolism, which may represent
psychological traits as well external relationships and circumstances. Astrology is unique for
providing symbolism that not only gives archetypal representation of internal and external
experiences but implies their deep interconnectedness. Evolving meanings allow for expanding
and evolving self-concept and for changing behavioral dynamics when one recognizes they no
longer work.
Self and Other
All participants employ astrology to evaluate areas of compatibility and tension in
personal relationships, to understand other people better, or to recognize specific patterns in
relating. Astrology provides another dimension for understanding the potential compatibility
between two people, but it does not manifest in a predictable manner for many. Most often
meanings are found in retrospect and are not fixed. Occasionally the potential of a new
relationship is evaluated.
Cultural Context
Two out of 4 participants (Hardy and Iris) consider astrology an important source of
archetypal information that applies to individual as well as cultural and social developments.
Hardy is presently working on attributing a new archetypal meaning to recently discovered
asteroid Eris by correlating historical and social occurrences of current times to its influence.
Hardy and Iris consider the meaning of astrological symbols enigmatic, which draws unending
interest to a deeper understanding of their cultural and personal significance.

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Astrology as a Psychological Tool
All participants consider astrology an invaluable tool for in-depth psychological work for
its sophisticated symbolic representation of psychological dynamics and complexes. Self-
knowledge, identifying priorities, and becoming aware of the spectrum of possible expression are
meanings found through astrology that contribute to healing and internal changes. Recognition of
the dominant psychological dynamics may or may not lead to immediate changes in behavior.
Some participants (Hardy and Iris) feel strengthened psychologically by understanding how to
work on personal psychological complexes.
Summary of General Structure
The participants create new meanings in the process of correlating the literal and
symbolic meanings accessed with astrology. This process frequently produces shifts in
perspective from ego-centered, subjective and literal, to a broader, Universe-centered and
archetypal, or in reverse. For the participants, their personal experiences become meaningful in
relation to a broader philosophical and spiritual framework provided by astrology. Prior to their
exposure to astrology, most participants were unable to find a philosophical or spiritual system
of guidance that would aid them in finding the meaning of difficult or ambiguous personal
experiences. For example, Iris could not understand the meaning of her experience of being
committed to a mental institution until she learned about astrological transits. MaryAnn and
Hardy began to view their life‘s meaning as personal evolution and self-betterment in the process
of studying astrology.
The astrological symbols are particularly suitable tools for finding meaning because of
their fluid, manifold, metaphoric, and archetypal nature. The fluid quality of astrological
symbolism allows the participants to evolve the meanings from literal to symbolic, from personal
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to archetypal, and from metaphoric to literal. For example, MaryAnn at first viewed the
disruption in a relationship with her ex-husband as a literal event, but later her understanding
expanded to view this experience as a manifestation of her previously unrecognized needs to be
free, innovative, and unusual—qualities MaryAnn apprehended by reflecting on her natal Uranus
in opposition to the ascendant. The evolution of meaning supports the participants‘ expanding
understanding of their lives and internal growth. The manifold nature of astrological symbolism
enables the participants to find multiple meanings that interrelate with both their internal and
external experiences.
The study of astrology is accompanied by many psychological benefits for the
participants such as a more definite sense of self (self-concept), personal validation and deeper
understanding of self and others, as well as individual psychological dynamics of relating. For
example, Hardy recognized his needs for intensity and closeness in all of his relationships, even
the casual ones. Iris identified her sensitivity around but simultaneous attraction to strong women
by reflecting on the meaning of her natal Moon in Aries. This pattern contributed to her
difficulty in forming friendships with women.
The participants experience feelings of certainty when they are able to approximate the
purpose and duration of difficult experience. For instance, MaryAnn felt reassured that a
financially and emotionally stressful period in her life would end when the astrological transit
she associates with these experiences passed. In contrast, the participants feel uncertain, fearful,
or anxious when they identify with negative or ambiguous astrological interpretations. For
example, Iris felt fearful that she was not going to overcome her health problems, because she
considered that her astrological chart indicated ongoing issues with her health.
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The participants most commonly use astrology reflectively to understand their previous
meaningful experiences or relationship dynamics; less frequently they attempt to predict the
future. None of the participants alters his or her behavior based on the astrological predictions;
rather astrology is employed as a diagnostic and spiritually based guide to self-understanding and
betterment. Noteworthy, the professional astrologers, Hardy and MaryAnn, use astrology for
transformation and working through life challenges as well as limiting psychological dynamics.
Iris and Alex look to astrology for guidance on how to transform the aspects of their lives or
relationships they find stressful or confusing. In that regard their use of astrology is
transformative, rather than reflective. All participants frequently use astrology to understand
significant others.
The participants use astrology to understand cultural and social changes and to create
new meanings that explain personal, social, and cultural developments. Iris, for example, is
interested in distinguishing her unique and personal qualities from cultural and social influences
she had been exposed to. Hardy is working on attributing a new meaning to a recently discovered
asteroid Eris which he considers an important personal and cultural archetype emerging in the
collective conscious.
All participants find astrology to be a valuable tool for in-depth psychological
understanding and working through psychological dynamics and patterns. This was in spite of
occasional apprehensions about overconceptualizing their experiences or overidentification with
the undesirable meanings found with astrology.

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Chapter 5: Discussion
This chapter presents a discussion of current research findings and their implications
within the context of existing theories and research. Much of the data discussed in the literature
review are captured in the key constituents or essential elements of consciousness common
across all participants and are summarized in Chapter 4. In addition, some new or refined aspects
of meaning construction with astrological symbolism are detailed, with an emphasis on the
unique role astrology plays in this process.
The existing literature on meaningfulness can be roughly separated into three categories:
philosophical works on meaning finding, investigations of essential elements that contribute to
the process of meaning construction, and studies that focus on positive psychological effects of
finding meaning for coping with stressful or otherwise ambiguous experiences. Key constituents
found by the phenomenological method in this dissertation are discussed according to their
correlation with the above categories and their prominence in situated structures unique to each
participant.
Finding meaning is considered by many theorists and scientists to be an essential human
psychological need (e.g., Fingarette, 1963; Frankl, 1971; Hardy, 1998; Klinger, 1998). Common
elements generally viewed as important for meaning creation are comprehensibility of the
events, having a sense of goal, positive self-evaluation, a sense of manageability and orderliness,
and finding benefit even in adverse experiences. These components are evidenced in this study‘s
findings and are presented below together with the new findings.
Meaning Shifts Between Symbolic and Literal
One of the prominent key constituents found across all participants‘ situated structures
was that the process of finding meaning resulted from shifts in perspective from subjective and
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ego-centered to a broader archetypal point of view. This shift enabled the participants to
apprehend their experience as a purposeful component of a larger meaningful whole. For
example, MaryAnn sees challenging situations and events in her life as something that she
needed to experience for her evolution and growth. Correlating astrological meaning with her
literal experiences enabled her to connect personal to archetypal. For instance, during the Pluto
transit to MaryAnn‘s natal Moon Neptune conjunction, MaryAnn experienced disillusionment
with her mother when she learned that her mother committed a financial fraud against MaryAnn.
The participant began to see her mother more realistically, as someone who needed help.
MaryAnn had to commit her mother to a mental hospital, but, at the same time, she was able to
forgive her and heal.
To summarize, two elements contributing to meaningfulness were (a) purposefulness of
experience within a larger context or system, and (b) expanding one‘s perspective, which
enabled the creation of new meanings. The first element also implied a sense of orderliness. In
other words, meaning is found by understanding some experience beyond its literal
characteristics and in relation to a more global context.
This finding supports Maddi‘s (1998) idea that symbolization, a process of categorizing
and interpreting experiences beyond their specific characteristics, is one of three key elements in
the process of finding meaning. The other two processes he identified were imagination and
categorization. They denote understanding experiences beyond their literal occurrences in the
external world (imagination) and the mental act of evaluating them (categorization). When
symbolic and literal meanings are compared, the symbolization of the literal meaning occurs, and
synthesis between the literal and symbolic meaning results in understanding the experience
beyond its original qualities.

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Another important element of meaning construction was the fluidity of meanings that
shifted between literal and symbolic, and back to literal. The participants‘ subjective experiences
were illuminated when symbolic meaning applied to their specific circumstances. When literal
experience exemplified the symbolic meaning, the participants felt aligned with the larger
archetypal forces of the Universe. For example, the experience of marriage dissolution for
MaryAnn became powerfully illustrative of Neptune‘s astrological meaning as a dissolver of
things. Eventually, MaryAnn recognized there was a purpose in her marriage dissolution in order
for her to develop greater self-reliance and to follow nontraditional interests such as her
professional engagement with astrology.
This aspect of meaning finding with astrological symbolism is similar to the process of
metaphor creation where a dynamic integration between literal interpretation and metaphor
allows for a new meaning to emerge (Chiang, 2009; Ricoeur, 1977). Astrological symbols are
often more global than metaphors, which makes them unique for meaning construction, as
pointed out by Mayer (1977) who also identified transformation of meaning and emergence of
new meaning as core themes in the process of meaning creation with astrological symbols.
Present study‘s results support Mayer‘s findings.
For example, for Iris a transformation of meaning occurred when she discovered new
purpose in losing her addictions and beginning on a path of self-discovery through psychology
after her temporary commitment to a mental institution—the experience that occurred while Iris
had Pluto transiting her natal Sun. The new meaning emerged for Iris in the process of
comparison of her literal experience and symbolic meaning of the Pluto transit as a destroyer of
her old identity.

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Astrology as a System of Guidance
For all participants, explicitly or implicitly astrology serves as a spiritual or philosophical
system of guidance. Most came to astrology after having failed to find systems of meaning that
would explain their life experiences or place them in a meaningful broad context. This finding
supports Rudhyar‘s (1971) idea that astrology‘s most significant asset is its capacity ―to show
man the meaningfulness of his life‖ (p. 4), and gives support to the importance of connecting to a
wider whole—described by Mayer as one of the core benefits of using astrology for meaning
finding (1977).
The professional astrologers (Hardy and MaryAnn) view their life purpose in bettering
themselves and choosing positive expression of their psychological characteristics over the
negative ones in accord with astrology. They perceive life/the Universe as ultimately meaningful
and having a positive purpose, while astrology provides a symbolic language to access these
meanings. Hardy finds a strong sense of purpose in his exploration of astrology and sharing it
with others professionally. Such use of astrology is theological as opposed to being purely
descriptive as one may find in a general reading.
Iris reaffirms internal hopefulness and finds new direction with the idea that challenging
internal dynamics and undesirable qualities may be transformed to a more harmonious
expression. She found in astrology a system of meaning that is transpersonal and expands purely
materialistic views that proved insufficient for explaining her challenging life experiences. Alex
uses his astrological knowledge to deepen understanding of himself and others and hopes to find
resolution to internal conflicts with astrological symbolism. The implication of the finding that
the participants look to astrology for spiritual guidance is that the sense of meaningfulness is
interconnected with a belief system often rooted in spiritual philosophy or transpersonal

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orientation. All participants demonstrate a need for a transpersonal or transcendental system of
belief for finding purposefulness and positive meaning.
It could be generalized that any philosophical belief system that an individual finds
adequate may serve in finding meaning. For example, a positivist view of the world would imply
that human life has a meaning of biological evolution. The spiritually based systems, such as
astrology, however, provide an increased sense of purposefulness and personal meaning because
they are inherently purpose oriented, with some of the goals being accomplishing God-like
states, evolving, and pursuing the higher good. Additionally, they support the sense of
meaningfulness by providing a perspective of interconnectedness with the Universe.
The importance of purposefulness as a contributing factor to the feeling of
meaningfulness is emphasized by many scientists and theorists. For example, Frankl (1971)
considered having goals a necessity for a meaningful life. One of the denotations of the term
meaning is an intention or an aim. Many writers have recognized the transpersonal value of
astrology as a spiritual guidance system (e.g., Arroyo, 1975; Bogart, 2002; Rudhyar, 1970), but I
came across only one study (Yanez et al., 2009) on the connection between spiritual beliefs and
meaningfulness. Present research findings clearly support the significance of spiritual or
transpersonal elements for finding meaning. Future studies could further investigate the
interconnectedness between spirituality and meaningfulness.
Psychological Benefits: Self-Identification, Self-Validation, and Others
The study of astrology provides considerable psychological benefits for the participants.
They value the ability to gain deeper self-knowledge and identify their most dominant personal
psychological characteristics. This leads to processes of self-identification and self-validation
experienced as fulfilling and positive by all participants. Hardy, for example, considered the
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process of recognizing and identifying his psychological need for being active as important and
psychologically fulfilling. Iris appreciates the in-depth insights into her personality she
discovered through her study of astrology.
Previous studies showed that emphasis on positive psychological qualities and
verification of individual self-beliefs contribute to astrology‘s popularity (Glick et al., 1989;
Keinan, 1994; Padget & Jorgenson, 1982; Sales, 1973). Lillqvist and Lindeman (1998)
demonstrated that participants‘ self-concept was verified after taking an astrological course,
which the authors attributed to the certainty of self-descriptive attributes and the assumptions of
self-control perceived with astrological descriptions. It appears that crystallization of self-
understanding or identification of important psychological qualities contributes to the experience
of meaningfulness and satisfaction. For example, Hardy experienced a feeling of contentment
when he recognized his needs for continuous activity and self-expression as symbolically
represented by the abundant Fire element in his horoscope.
Bieke and Niedenthal (1998) considered the sense of meaningfulness to be
interconnected with positive or negative comparison between past and present self-concept,
which leads to a positive or negative self-evaluation. In other words, people perceive their lives
to be more meaningful when they evaluate their current personal qualities (self-concept) as
positive, and evolving in comparison to how they were in the past. Current study‘s findings
indicate that positive self-evaluation and a definite sense of self (self-concept) are important
processes contributing to the perception of meaningfulness. The results of this research support
Mayer‘s (1977) finding that astrology aids psychotherapy by giving the client permission to be
her or himself, and crystallizing his or her unique way of being. In additional to self-
identification, astrology is also used by some participants for emotional support, as they find
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positive interpretations hopeful and encouraging. Others find a sense of purpose or validation of
their positive qualities. Negative feelings may arise when participants identify with undesirable
qualities or feel uncertainty, as discussed in greater detail below. Identification with negative
symbolism may indicate a weaker sense of self, but all participants consider such use of
astrology to be negative and generally look for encouraging meanings.
This finding correlates to the potential problem with using astrology as a negative or rigid
typology that is either used to verify negative self-image or relinquish responsibility. In Mivtzari
Weil‘s study (2002), all psychologists who used astrology in their practice considered astrology
not appropriate for the clients who did not possess strong ego boundaries, suffered from
addictions, or were borderline because of the potential dependency and being strongly influenced
by negative or ambiguous meanings.
Meaning and Perceptions of Certainty/Uncertainty
Feelings of reassurance and certainty are common when the participants can use
astrology to anticipate the timing and duration of challenging experiences and understand their
archetypal nature. Planetary transits are commonly utilized for that purpose. This key constituent
common across all individual structures echoes the quantitative research conclusion that ―based
on predictability and controllability, astrology seems to provide meaningful explanations for
ambiguous and confusing phenomena, and to increase the feeling of control, which is often lost
in stressful situations‖ (Lillqvist & Lindeman, 1998, p. 207).
Ancient philosophers believed that astrology provides a sense of security by enabling an
individual to understand his or her fate and to act in accordance with it (Plato, 1961 version). The
importance of reducing uncertainty as both a positive psychological experience and a
contributing factor to meaningfulness is evidenced in this study. All participants, for example,
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consider challenging periods in their life meaningful after having been reassured in their
purposefulness by reflecting on the meaning of planetary transits. The significance of
astrological transits as symbolic representations of important life cycles is evidenced in the
experience of all study participants. This finding supports Rudhyar‘s (1976) idea that transits and
progressions in astrology serve as symbolic markers of important cycles in personal evolution.
Self and Other
Recognition and awareness of interpersonal relationship dynamics in understanding
others through the symbolic lens of astrology is important to all participants and appears as a
prominent key constituent across all situated structures. Most often the participants evaluate
areas of compatibility and tension in personal relationships and identify internal psychological
patterns of relating. The meanings are usually found in retrospect and are not fixed.
Occasionally the potential of a new relationship is evaluated, although symbolic
meanings do not manifest in a predictable manner for many. In spite of that, all participants find
insights derived with astrology surprisingly accurate and descriptive of their relationship
dynamics. Psychologically, astrology may reduce uncertainty and give more control over one‘s
choices, except when feelings of anger or anxiety are produced by dependency and identification
with negative or undesirable literal interpretations. Identification of the relationship‘s strengths
and weaknesses leads to a deeper awareness of self and other, while contributing to the
experience of meaningfulness.
For example, Alex recognized his internal tension of needing closeness and intimacy
while at the same time desiring freedom by reflecting on the symbolic meaning of his natal Pluto
Venus Moon T-square. This dynamic expressed in his relationship with his mother and other
women in his life. While he still continues to experience tension in his primary relationships, he
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is more able to transform this pattern through his awareness gained via astrology and his
personal efforts.
This finding reinforces the relational aspect of meaningfulness. The relationships are
considered a significant element of understanding life experiences and contribute to the sense of
meaningfulness. Possibly understanding of significant others is as important as clear self-
concept.
Symbolic Retrospective Process
Meanings found with astrological symbolism are most commonly applied to past
experiences. Although some participants occasionally use predictive astrological techniques to
anticipate or prepare for the future, all 4 usually evaluate their experiences in hindsight. This
finding is intriguing as it indicates that a feeling of certainty is not connected to knowing or
being in control of the future; rather it appears to be interlinked with placing one‘s experience in
a meaningful broader context, which establishes the feeling of certainty and projects it into the
future. It also indicates that astrological meanings are often too broad to be applied with certainty
to the future; rather the participants find resonance between specific qualities of their past
experiences and the global archetypal meanings of astrological symbols. This finding correlates
with Jung‘s (1973) appreciation of astrology‘s ability to provide meaningful descriptions of
archetypes and synchronicity, rather than of its mantic methods.
Symbols Are Evolving and Manifold
Astrological symbolism allows for meanings to evolve and change over time. They shift
from literal to symbolic, from internal to external, and from superficial to more in-depth, and in
reverse. All participants evolve their understanding of themselves and life experiences and prefer
not to have them fixed. Astrological symbols are unique for their fluidity and broad implications.
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In addition, meanings found are manifold; the same symbolism may represent psychological
traits as well as external relationships and circumstances.
The manifold nature of astrological symbols corresponds to the same quality of
archetypes, described by Jung (1969a) as ―manifold in meaning, [with] their almost limitless
wealth of reference, which makes any unilateral formulation impossible‖ (p. 38). Astrological
symbolism is unique for not only providing an archetypal representation of internal and external
experiences but implying their deep interconnectedness. Evolving meanings allow for expanding
and evolving self-concepts and for changing behavioral dynamics when one recognizes they no
longer work.
This finding supports Mayer‘s (1977, 1984) meaning reorganization point of view, which
implies that new internal meanings may be created in a moment by experiencing and reflecting
on a particular astrological symbol. For example, during the interviews, Iris and Alex were
invited to play out different challenging dynamics they associate with the particular astrological
symbols in their charts. In this process, both came to a new understanding of how to integrate
their conflicting needs/desires with more self-awareness and compassion. This approach
emphasizes the creation of a new meaning rather than employing fixed meaning rooted in
synchronistic or causal approaches to astrology. Fluidity and the manifold meaning nature of
astrological symbolism evidenced in this study allow for new meanings to be created.
Cultural Context
For Iris and Hardy, astrology is a source of archetypal information that applies to
individual as well as cultural developments. Hardy is working on attributing new meaning to a
newly discovered asteroid by correlating historical and social occurrences of current times to its
archetypal significance. Hardy considers the new archetype significant as it represents some of
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the essential qualities of modern times. At the same time, it is personally important for Hardy as
this new archetype correlates to his personal feelings of social responsibility and justice.
Noteworthy is the integration of personal and cultural in the meaning being attributed to
the new astrological archetype. This integration suggests the interconnectedness between
personal and collective as reflected in the famous astrological saying of Hermes Trismegistus,
―as above, so below.‖ Iris considers astrological symbols to be always enigmatic and has never
fully understood what draws the unending human interest in uncovering their cultural and
personal implications.
This finding supports the ideas of astrological and psychological theorists (e.g., George,
1986; Green, 1985; Rudhyar, 1970) who viewed astrological archetypes as representations of
collective consciousness and unconsciousness. For these participants, cultural archetypes may be
accessed with astrology, and this process contributes to a sense of meaningfulness rooted in
understanding oneself, others, and the society at large. In other words, astrology serves as a
symbolic lens that provides access to personal and collective archetypes.
Astrology as a Psychological Tool
All participants of this study value astrological symbolism for deepening self-knowledge,
identifying psychological priorities, and becoming aware of a spectrum of possible psychological
expressions. These processes lead to healing and internal change and make astrology valuable for
psychotherapy. Some participants feel strengthened psychologically by understanding how to
work on personal psychological complexes (Hardy), others find a sense of hope and
encouragement (Iris and MaryAnn), and all consider astrological symbolism an aid to
psychological growth.
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Previous research has shown that psychotherapists who use astrology in their practice
believe it can enhance psychology deeply, not only by providing additional information, but by
introducing a transpersonal aspect into the session (Mivtzari Weil, 2002). A transpersonal aspect
implies the existence of something that transcends ego boundaries and places personal issues and
dynamics in a holistic, purposeful context.
Psychotherapists such as Bogart (1996), Mayer (1977), Bader (1997), and Perry (1997)
view astrology as a useful projective test, similar to the Rorschach, whereby the client and/or the
astro-therapist can reflect upon the symbols and do a hermeneutical exploration of their meaning.
Negative uses of astrology include overidentificaiton with undesirable qualities, characterizations
that lead to stereotypes, or being too dependent on the fixed, concrete meanings attributed to
astrology, and the propensity to escape the present by focusing on the future.
Mayer (1984) pointed out that these are the contraindications of using astrology in
psychotherapy. This study found that 1 participant (Iris) experienced negative self-identification
and feared using astrology purely conceptually, rather than getting meaning from her experience
by being in the body and in the present moment. Iris was taken out of the present not because of
her interest in future predictions but because she had a tendency to identify or get immersed in
the conceptual meanings of the astrological symbols without fully experiencing them.
This problem was addressed by Gendlin (1958), when he emphasized the importance of
experiencing new meaning rather than just intellectualizing it. He also discussed the importance
of symbols in this process and spoke of two dimensions of meaning: ―the formal relations of
symbols and their relations to objects‖ and ―our experience of meaning‖ (p. 1). Using symbols
for creating new meaning and experiencing in the moment was further developed in Mayer‘s
(1977) research. This current study did not find that other participants had a problem with being
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taken out of the present because they generally do not use astrology predictively but rather
reflectively or as a transformative guidance system.
Most therapists agree that a symbolic astrological approach may not be beneficial for
clients with weaker ego structures, borderline personalities, or otherwise disturbed sense of self
(e.g., Bader, 1977; Bogart, 1996; Mayer, 1977; Mivtzari Weil, 2002). Mayer also discussed that
astrology may be misused for justifying one‘s neuroses, rather than aiding to the discovery of
new meaning and transformation of the old patterns. Mayer suggested that a therapist would
need to aid the client by shifting his or her perspective from explaining why one the way one is to
experiencing how one is the way one is.
The participants of this study occasionally used astrology to explain the way they are,
such as, for example, when Alex described his inner tensions between wanting to be free and
simultaneously desiring intimacy, or when Hardy recognized the importance of the sexual
component in his relationships with others. In this study, all of the participants use knowledge
gained with astrology to illuminate and often to transform their behaviors which may be
attributed to their commitment to self-development and personal growth.
Conclusions
In the introductory section of this study, two questions were posed: (a) Why do people
find astrology subjectively meaningful? and (b) What are the benefits of working with a complex
symbol system like astrology in understanding self and others? Both questions are answered on
the basis of this study‘s findings.
The participants of the current study find astrology meaningful for a multitude of reasons.
They typically become interested in astrology after having been unable to find a system of
meaning that would provide a broader spiritual perspective on their experiences. All 4
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participants need such perspective in order to orient themselves amidst chaotic or stressful life
experiences and to find a sense of purposefulness and direction. For example, MaryAnn found
meaning in the experiences of being twice deceived in financial matters by reflecting on the
archetypal pattern of Neptune in the 8th house of her chart. Alex gained deeper understanding of
his internal psychological dynamics of relating by pondering the significance of the challenging
Pluto Moon and Pluto Venus aspects in his chart. Iris viewed her stressful experience of being
committed to a mental institution as a manifestation of Pluto archetype destroying her old
identity but ultimately leading her in a new direction of growth and healing. Hardy reaffirmed his
purpose in life as an educator and entrepreneur and found in astrology a spiritually based
philosophy of life.
Astrology is a suitable system for philosophical and spiritual guidance because it
provides a broad metaphoric, metaphysical, and symbolic frame of reference for understanding
life experiences. In addition, astrology provides a symbolic language that is particularly suitable
for finding meaning because of its fluidity; holistic, metaphoric, and evolving nature; and
plurality. Fluidity is a process of meaning reorganization that occurs when the participants
compare the literal and symbolic meaning of a particular experience and, as a result, reorganize
their original understanding. This aspect of meaning making is considered essential by many
theorists and researchers of meaning making (e.g., Chiang, 2009; Fingarette, 1963; Jung, 1990;
Maddi, 1998; Mayer, 1977).
All participants began using astrological language quite literally, but over time they
evolved their understanding and shifted to a much deeper symbolic understanding of their
conscious experiences and the unconscious psychological dynamics. Shifts between the literal
and symbolic meanings allow for changing perspectives and the alignment of one‘s subjective
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experience with the broader archetypal, universal forces. In other words, they enable seeing
one‘s experience as a part of a wider whole. A variety of meanings from global to literal and
from internal to external may be derived because of astrology‘s metaphoric and
multidimensional symbolism.
All participants particularly value astrology as a symbolic system of reference that aids
in-depth psychological understanding and evolving self-knowledge. The study of astrology and
its application to life experience provide many psychological benefits, including but not limited
to self-validation and verification, increased feelings of certainty and purpose, positive
encouragement and hopefulness, and a sense of meaningfulness. Feelings of certainty that arise
from finding meaning in otherwise ambiguous experiences are psychologically beneficial and
indicate that the feelings of certainty and meaningfulness are interconnected. Potential problems
likely for people with a less identified or disturbed sense of self include negative identification
with undesirable qualities or projected literal negative interpretations as well as
overconceptualization or dependency on concrete astrological meanings.
Working with symbols to construct meaning is particularly beneficial because symbols
represent archetypal and cultural meanings that are fluid, holistic, and multidimensional.
Comparisons between literal experiences and symbolic meanings enable shifts in perspective
from ego-centered to a broader holistic point of view, which, in turn, brings feelings of
meaningfulness and psychological wholeness. In addition, astrological symbols allow us to
access personal, interpersonal, and cultural archetypes—all three appear to be important for a
sense of meaningfulness.
In addition to being potent metaphorical expressions for self-understanding, astrological
symbols are commonly used for evaluating key strengths and weaknesses in relationships.
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Astrological symbols provide an archetypal, symbolic perspective on relationship dynamics,
while, at the same time, capturing some of their concrete and fundamental essences.
In my research, I have shown that meaning-making functions of astrological symbols are
helpful for healing and contain numerous psychological benefits. However, the meaning making
function of symbols may be enhanced further by their use within a psychotherapeutic context.
For example, Alex had insights into his issue with boundaries in intimate relationships as
symbolized by Venus in Pisces, and his simultaneous desire for freedom and independence as
symbolized by the Moon in Sagittarius. A psychotherapist may use these symbols for
transformative process rather than the merely reflective aspect of finding meaning, which would
make the use of astrological symbols more teleological as opposed to merely descriptive, or
etiological.
Noteworthy is the fact that in this study, the participants who were professional
astrologers (Hardy and MaryAnn) more frequently referred to astrology for transformation and
growth (teleological approach), especially when they employ astrology as a system of guidance.
Two other participants (Alex and Iris), who were not professional astrologers but had substantial
familiarity with it, also looked to astrology for guidance but most commonly used symbols in an
explanatory and descriptive way (etiological approach). Occasionally, both of them had
transformative insights and found new meaning in their life experiences, such as when Iris began
to consider her experience of being in a mental institution as having a beneficial purpose for her
self-understanding and healing. Alex understood the psychological tension in relationship with
his mother that led to the increased efforts in finding balance between his drive for freedom, on
one hand, and intimacy and responsibility, on the other.

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It appears that the transformative or guiding element of astrology coincided with the
increasing knowledge of the subject. In a psychotherapeutic context, the therapist may use a
symbolic process to inspire the transformative, teleological aspect of astrology rather than simply
describing psychological dynamics and core issues.
Implications for Transpersonal Psychology
The results of current research indicate that astrology may be used by psychologists as a
useful metaphoric and symbolic system that aids in finding meaning. The first finding is that the
meaning is found by comparison between literal and symbolic meaning. This is related to what
Park and Folkman (1997) called the adjustment between situational and global meaning.
Situational meaning represents casual understanding of a current situation, while global meaning
represents general ideas about the world and the purposefulness of one‘s life.
In the author‘s opinion, the conclusion relevant for psychologists is that meaning is
relational. It can only be found in relation to something else—something that is usually more
global than the immediate or literal understanding. For example, all participants in this study felt
a sense of meaningfulness when they were able to correlate their personal experiences to the
global astrological archetypes.
Psychotherapists may help their clients by exploring a meaningful goal or establishing a
relevant system of meaning that will provide the clients with a sense of purpose. For example,
for a client who is not certain in his life or her life purpose, helping others and seeing their
problems may provide the necessary goal infusing the client‘s life with a new goal and meaning.
In this study, both Hardy and MaryAnn, professional astrologers, find their lives particularly
meaningful in spite of personal struggles because of their goals to help others and better
themselves.
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The second finding of this study is that astrology, in particular, is appealing to the
participants because it is viewed as a spiritual system of guidance. The spiritual or transpersonal
aspect of finding meaning for the participants implies the need for a transcendental purpose in
life that transcends the mundane or self-focused, ego concerns. In other words, having a broad,
global context of meaning makes life‘s trials bearable for the participants. For all participants,
placing their challenging or confusing experiences into the broader framework of meaning
provided by astrology aided the participants in coming to terms with difficult experiences and
viewing them as meaningful and beneficial.
From the point of view of transpersonal psychology, the sense of meaningfulness found
with astrological symbolism appears in the process of correlating one‘s experience to a wider
whole, the Universe—in other words, something that transcends the ego-centered perspective
and understanding. The transpersonal aspect of astrology as a system of meaning that provides
symbolic language for accessing the potential of a human‘s life makes astrology a particularly
valuable discipline for transpersonal psychology. Curiously, at present transpersonal psychology
does not incorporate or investigate the value of astrology in any sufficient manner. I hope the
present study will contribute to that end. As discussed in Chapter 2, many transpersonal theorists
and psychologists (e.g., Bogart, 2002; Grof, 2006; Mayer; 1984; Tarnas, 2006) embrace
astrology as a powerful system that may contribute the field of transpersonal psychology, while
others (e.g., Wilber, 2001) consider it valid only for people who believe in it.
One of the basic premises of transpersonal psychology, according to Frager (1989), is
that ―we do not yet know the extent of human potential. This sense of the vastness and potential
power within each individual brings to psychotherapy and to human growth a transpersonal
context‖ (p. 308). Transpersonal psychology focuses on three major domains: the psychology of
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personal development, the psychology of consciousness, and spiritual psychology. Spiritual
psychology ―attempts to develop a psychology that does full justice to mysticism and spirituality,
one that studies the deeper or transcendental Self, the ground for the most profound, subtle and
mystical experiences‖ (Frager, 1989, p. 301).
Astrology provides a system of meaning that reveals the spiritual intention of the deep
Self—‖the very essence of what it is to be human‖ (Frager, 1989, p. 302). Frager described one
of the goals of spiritual transpersonal psychology as the study of the deep Self, which, according
to many mystics, is the core of our relatedness to God, our quest to discover and know the Divine
element within ourselves; it is our true Self. The results of this current research indicate that
astrology may be particularly useful for transpersonal psychology for its ability to provide access
to the archetypal structures and meanings including the highest human potential and discovery of
the deep Self.
Mayer (1984) proposed that an astrological mandala could be used as a psychotherapeutic
metasystem that would allow people to holistically envision each system as part of an integral
whole. For example, various aspects of transpersonal psychology may be put into different parts
of the mandala: altered states in the 12th house (Pisces), symbolic process into the 8th house
(Scorpio), and the Somatic psychotherapies in the 2nd house (Taurus). Mayer (2009) also
pointed out that astrological symbols help to transform energy and can be an important part of
helping one to find a new life stance, rooted in the wider cosmos of archetypal possibilities.
Astrology provides a unique symbolic language useful for accessing archetypal
meanings. Symbols are particularly suitable agents for finding meaning because they are
multidimensional, fluid, and manifold in meaning. Even if the client is not fully aware of the
global purpose or does not have the conscious commitment to a particular spiritual,
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philosophical, or religious system of belief, symbols provide access to metaphoric, archetypal,
and universal perceptions of life. Thus symbolic tools such as art imagery, poetry, metaphor,
tarot, or astrology are useful agents for accessing archetypal and collective meanings.
Astrological symbols possess rich mythological meaning, readily available to counselors who
wish to use it.
The current study‘s findings indicate that meaningfulness is interdependent with self-
understanding and a defined self-concept. This supports Bieke and Niedenthal‘s (1998) theory
that the sense of meaningfulness of life is connected with positive or negative comparison
between self-concepts in the past versus in the present. In other words, positive self-evaluation
leads to the increased experience of meaningfulness. The findings of this study indicate that all
participants consider the ability to identify their personality strengths and weaknesses with
astrological symbolism a very significant one. Consequently, the process of psychotherapy by its
nature leads to increased meaningfulness, if it enables the client to discover him- or herself.
Thus, for the clients with serious life challenges or depression, it may be especially helpful to
explore, define, and reestablish a positive sense of self.
The contraindications of using astrology in psychology would be using it as a rigid
system of typology, thus producing dependency or identification with fixed or negative character
descriptions. As discussed in Chapter 2 and earlier in Chapter 5, astrology may not be suitable
for clients with a disturbed sense of self, weaker ego boundaries, or psychotic or borderline
personalities because they may be overly dependent or influenced by the rigid, negative, or
inaccurate interpretations. Another potential problem, reported earlier in this study, is when the
symbolic astrological meanings are used as pure concepts disconnected from the client‘s
psychological or body experience. To counteract this limitation, psychologists need to guide their
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clients to observe their felt experiences in response to different conceptual meanings. This
method was pioneered by Gendlin (1962) and found further development in the work of Mayer
(1977).
Astrology can be a useful projective diagnostic tool for psychologists, which can
symbolically represent the client‘s dominant psychological dynamics and important life cycles.
Although astrology is a complex system that requires significant knowledge, familiarity with
even the basic psychological premises, such as the meaning of the elements (fire, air, water, and
earth), or archetypal principles represented by planets, may be useful to psychologists.
Limitations and Delimitations
The conducted study has certain limitations and delimitations that may affect
generalizability of the findings. First is that only the experiences of meaning making by people
knowledgeable about and favorably disposed to astrology were investigated. The study did not
address how meanings are found by the people who are beginners in astrology, those who do not
believe in it, or those who employ other symbolic systems for meaning finding. It is, however,
likely that similarities exist in the process of meaning construction when other symbolic systems,
such as Tarot, numerology, Enneagram, and others are used. Nevertheless, the results of this
study may not be generalizable to the people who do not believe in astrology or do not know
astrology well.
The sample employed in this study was small (N = 4) but, as stated in Chapter 4, an
ample amount of raw data with multiple descriptions of the studied phenomenon resulted from
the open-ended interviews. Because the interviews were conducted among a relatively socially
and racially uniform group of participants, the generalizability of the results for different
socioeconomic or racial groups of people may be limited. All participants were middle class and
155
had college degrees, and 3 out of 4 were Caucasian American, one being Pakistani American.
There was an equal gender representation in the study. The study is less likely to be
representative of the aspects of meaning finding among underprivileged populations. To the
author‘s knowledge, no such research has been conducted.
The internal validity of the data may be threatened by the primary researcher‘s bias. The
author‘s bias is belief in the meaningfulness and value of astrology as a system of knowledge.
Sympathetic resonance existed with all participants because of the shared belief in astrology‘s
value and subjective validity. Throughout the interview process technical astrological language
was frequently used by the participants; this language has particular meaning and connection
associated with it. The researcher refrained from expressing her own understanding of this
language and encouraged the participants to express their perceptions and interpretations. The
primary researcher is aware that astrology may be used differently by all participants and their
understanding and meaning attributed to astrological symbols may differ from hers.
Finally, I recognize that my beliefs, biases, and particular knowledge of the subject
organize and present material in a certain way which cannot be fully transparent or neutral. A
particular translation is necessary from the complex technical language into an understandable
narrative accessible to the reader.
Future Research
In conclusion of this research project, the primary researcher remains fascinated with the
particular significance of astrology as a spiritual guidance system and, more generally, with the
correlation between the sense of meaningfulness and spirituality. Some recent studies have
explored the psychological connection between spirituality and stress adjustment (e.g., Yanez et
al., 2009). Future research could explore the essential significance of spirituality for a
156
wholesome and meaningful perception of life, feelings of contentment and emotional well-being,
and the phenomenon of spirituality in itself.
On a more personal note, the author was deeply impressed by the phenomenological
process of discovering the important elements of meaning making. She reread the interview
transcripts countless times and felt connected to the consciousness of the participants by
immersing herself deeply in their thought processes and experience. Each interview had a
particular flavor unique to the participant, as if colored by that participant‘s personality. The
unique flavor was apparent in the resulting situated structures. When the researcher distilled the
final meaning structure, she found that all individual themes contributed to the general structure,
which now represented something universal in the experience of finding meaning, as if all colors
came together forming the spectrum of the studied phenomenon. As a result of this research, the
primary researcher learned the importance of the relational aspect of meaning making. The
meaning can be found only in comparison and connection to something outside of one‘s ego-
centered perspective. One could argue that ego-centered pursuits also may provide meaning,
because they provide an individual with some goals. The research results, however, indicate that
meanings found in relation to a wider whole that transcends an ego-centered perspective are
more fulfilling. The researcher is reaffirmed in her belief that no one is alone in their struggle,
and that contentment and meaning may be found in context of transcending ego-centric focus,
and by relating to others, to Self, and to the Divine. Consequently, in her practice, she will carry
this principle forward by trying to connect to her clients on a heart level and by encouraging
them to connect to themselves, and to the world around them, ultimately discovering their deep
Self, the Divine spark within.

157
In addition, the author hopes that quantitative and qualitative research methods could
complement each other by focusing on different aspects of astrology. Some research suggests
that quantitative studies may be useful in investigating planetary positions connected with
concrete spheres of life rather than general psychological qualities. For example, Gauquelin
(1969) has demonstrated the correlation between the choice of profession in prominent people,
and rising or culminating positions of planets in their natal charts. Gauquelin‘s binomial
statistical method was critiqued, as discussed in detail in Chapter 2. Gauquelin countered the
criticism by referring to a few independent studies that replicated his results, and also compared
prominent people to ordinary people born on the same day (something he had not done), again
demonstrating the effects Gauquelin found (Gauquelin, 1988; Zelen, 1976). Gauquelin‘s study
was more recently replicated by Ertel and Kurtz (1992).
In a more recent quantitative dissertation research, a British psychologist Harris (2005)
has found associations between the planets Venus and Jupiter and fertility, and an increased
likelihood of having children. These findings correlate to astrological postulates that planets
influence specific areas of life (such as career, relationship, or health) by being associated with
the houses of the horoscope which symbolize these areas.
Because the author considers astrology a systemic knowledge, qualitative research may
be best suited for studying more complex, compound, or psychological aspects of astrology. For
example, another phenomenological study could investigate the essential themes in the
experiences of Pluto, Uranus, and Neptune transits. Coleman (1991), for instance, investigated
the experiences of people undergoing Saturn and Uranus transits to personal planets, and
identified a few distinct themes common during such experiences. She distinguished the themes
of overcompensation, depression, fear, blocks, authority, and achievement issues during the
158
Saturn transits, and concern for the truth, keen insight, and an urging to honor one‘s intuition
during the Uranus transits. Future studies could be conducted to distill the generalizable and
practically applicable psychological themes present in the experiences of people who experience
significant astrological transits.
Although present research was not focused on thematic analysis of experiences connected
with particular transits, a few common themes emerged in the reported experiences of Pluto
transits. For example, MaryAnn reported losing her illusions about motherhood, in general, and
about her mother, in particular, when Pluto transited her natal Moon Neptune conjunction.
MaryAnn expressed it in the following words:
I had some delusions about my mother. . . . Pluto came to conjunct my Moon-Neptune

conjunction in the 8th house, and what happened was my mother attempted suicide. And
that‘s Pluto-Moon. . . . So, she tried to commit suicide while Pluto was going over this,
and then it was revealed what had happened [the mother committed an identity theft].
And I had to commit my mother into a mental institution during that time. So Pluto
purged my ideals of my mother during that time, and I was able to see her for a mentally
ill woman who needed help. And that was very significant for me, because it was very
healing for me as well.
Thus, Pluto ―tore‖ and ―purged‖ MaryAnn‘s ideals and illusions, which was a difficult but
ultimately healing experience for her.
Iris went through a significant and challenging period of change when Pluto transited her
natal Sun Neptune conjunction. She was committed to a mental hospital after being unable to
deal with stress and depression, and lacking spiritual and psychological direction and support.
Iris said,
When Pluto crossed my Sun and Neptune, I went into a mental hospital. And that is not
all that happened, really. There had been so much stress building for a really long
time. . . . So, there was nothing that I could turn to for support, and I knew I needed to get
out, so I think my mind created this extreme state, and I went through what I now call a
spiritual emergence, and went into rehab and I was completely in dark there and given
heavy drugs and tests in a mental hospital, and I could not speak after that in complete
sentences for a couple of years. So, that‘s Pluto. And it was breaking everything up. . . .
159
But I do not know, on the other hand, I also lost my addiction; I started on a path that
brought me to psychology.
For Iris as well as for MaryAnn, Pluto transit is associated with ―breaking everything up,‖
tearing old structures of knowledge and self-identifications apart, but at the same time prompting
the emergence of a new life direction and healing.
Alex experienced ―tension‖ and stress in relationship with his mother when transiting
Pluto was passing over his natal Moon. Alex had an intense internal struggle of wanting to
separate from his mother by physically moving far away, and yet he was afraid of damaging the
important connection that they share. Alex stated,
There was a lot of inner stress—you know, again, it was mostly felt [like a] very strong
tension—again, this drive to break free of the mother. But not having, perhaps, the
impetus or the courage to actually pull it off.
In the experiences of Alex, Iris, and MaryAnn, common themes such as inner tension, turmoil,
and breaking down of the old relationships and self-identities were noticeable, which were
followed by a reorganization of understanding and healing. Future research may explore how
people experience planetary transits and what meanings they attribute to them.
A new holistic methodology of research could be established that could provide the
adequate means for investigating the complex human emotions and subtle internal processes, not
reducible to causal relationships or an easily quantifiable set of variables. The subjective validity
of astrology as a symbolic system indicates its usefulness and supports the possibility of its
objective validity likely found within a nonmaterialistic philosophical paradigm, and so far not
captured by the positivist methods of research. The discrepancy between the subjective
meaningfulness of astrology and its apparent invalidity if accessed by the quantitative methods is
too great to be ignored or to be explained by astrology‘s allegedly pseudoscientific nature.
Something with no truth in it or no essential value cannot survive as a system of knowledge or

160
find psychological resonance in human minds for 1000s of years. Future researchers could use
both qualitative and quantitative methods to evaluate astrology and its subjective and objective
validity, while approaching it as a system in order to affirm this discipline‘s true nature and
value.
161
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Appendix A: Participant Consent Form
To: Research Study Participant:
From: Elena Kozlova, Primary Researcher
You are invited to participate in a research study that is being conducted to demonstrate how
astrology is used for meaning creation. Another goal of this study is to demonstrate astrology‘s
complex and systematic nature by using a qualitative rather than quantitative method. In the
course of the study, you will be invited to reflect on the important time(s) in your life when you
employed astrology to find meaning or to cope with the experience.
You will be taking part in two parts of the study: filling out a questionnaire with demographic
information, and participating in an interview wherein you will be asked to reflect on the
important time(s) in your life during which you used astrological symbols to find meaning or to
cope with the experience. The interview will take place at a quiet location such as the
researcher‘s office or at her school. It will last between 90-120 minutes and will be audio-taped.
The audio-recording will be transcribed, and themes and patterns that emerge from the text will
be included and published in the final research study.
To assure your privacy and the confidentiality of the data, you may choose a pseudonym that
will be used in the final research study. If you wish to use a pseudonym, please write it on the
space provided at the end of this form. If you prefer to use your first name, simply leave the
pseudonym part blank. All interview materials will be kept confidential and stored in a locked
cabinet in the researcher‘s office. If a transcriber is used, the transcriber will be required to sign a
transcriber confidentiality agreement. As an added precaution, I will alter any information which
might otherwise identify you as a participant in this research study.
Before signing this consent form and participating in the interview, please consider the
possibility that discussing your personal life experience may bring up memories or
uncomfortable feelings. I will make every effort to discuss them with you and provide support or
referrals to resolve them. In addition, you may withdraw from the study at any time without
penalty or prejudice.
You may also request a written summary of the research findings by providing your mailing
address.
I can be reached at (XXX) XXX-XXXX. You can also contact Robert Frager, Ph.D.
(Dissertation Committee Chairperson), or Fred Luskin, Ph.D. (Research Ethics Committee
Chairperson) at the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology at 650-493-4330.
I attest that I have read and understand this consent form. Any questions I have about this
research study and my participation have been answered to my satisfaction. I understand that my
participation is entirely voluntary and that no pressure has been applied to encourage
participation. My signature indicates my willingness to participate in this research study and to
have the results published.
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Write pseudonym here: _____________________________________
________________________________________________ ____________
Participant‘s Signature Date
________________________________________________ ____________
Researcher‘s Signature Date
Please send me a written summary of the study‘s pertinent findings: ___ yes ___ no
Contact Information (Please Print):
Name: _____________________________________________
Address: ___________________________________________
___________________________________________________
Phone: _____________________________________________
Email: ______________________________________________
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Appendix B: Confidentiality Agreement for Transcriptionist
As a transcriptionist, I agree to maintain confidentiality with regard to all participant
information, including their identities, the interview contents, the audio-recordings from their
interview sessions, and any other related written material.
__________________________ __________________________________
Transcriber Name and Date Signature

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Appendix C: Demographics Questionnaire
In your own words, please answer the following question below for the demographics
information of the study.
Name_____________________
1. What is your age: ________________
2. What is your race:________________
3. What is your occupation: __________________
4. Where do you currently live: _________________
5. What is your spiritual orientation (e.g., Christian, atheist, Buddhist, or any other spiritual
tradition you identify with):__________________

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Appendix D: Natal Charts of the Participants
MaryAnn’s Natal Chart
(Tropical Regiomontanus Mean Node)
(Note: Date, time, and place of birth for all were omitted for privacy reasons.)
175
Iris’s Natal Chart

176
Alex’s Natal Chart

177
Hardy’s Natal Chart

178
Appendix E: The Participants‘ Phenomenological Transformations
Participant 1: MaryAnn
Discriminated meaning units, First transformation into Phenomenological

expressed in coresearcher’s psychological language reductions with relevance
language: (Interviewer’s with relevance to the to the experience of
comments and questions are experience of finding finding meaning
italicized) meaning
1. (I: Think about some MaryAnn thought of many MaryAnn chose one of the
experience in your life—some stories and examples, but profound examples where
situation, maybe—where you used chose to discuss one of the she was not prepared to use
astrology to understand it or to more profound experiences her astrological knowledge
cope with something that might that she had had. She to anticipate and cope with
have been difficult otherwise.) believes that planetary a particular life experience,
Okay, well, there are many transits influence people‘s and she had to learn and
stories. And I can give you a few birth charts and bring events expand her understanding
different examples. One of the and lessons for them to learn. as a result.
more profound examples that I MaryAnn‘s astrological
enjoy sharing in my classes knowledge enables her to
actually that I teach is, as you anticipate and prepare for
know, the transiting planets, as coming trends, and to use
they influence our birth chart, planetary energy in the most
kind of trigger lessons and events positive way. However, in
to manifest. And we as this instance, MaryAnn was
astrologists can see these trends not prepared to face the
coming, and we can prepare and challenges she encountered.
utilize the energy as best as we
can. However, we all have
lessons to learn.
2. And a few years ago, it was MaryAnn discussed a MaryAnn was influenced
from 2007 until 2009, I was under specific example of how she by a difficult transit of
the influence of transiting was influenced by an Neptune to her natal
Neptune being at a square aspect astrological transit of Mercury between 2007 and
to my Mercury placement. And in Neptune squaring her natal 2009. The meaning of this
astrology, as you know, Mercury Mercury from 2007 to 2009. transit for MaryAnn is a
is the planet of communication, Based on her knowledge of warning that her
and Neptune, when it is at a traditional astrology, perceptions may be
difficult angle to a planet, it can MaryAnn considers the clouded and should not
cloud your perceptions and you‘re meaning of this transit as sign contracts because of
not able to really understand having a clouded perception, the potential for her to be
what‘s happening as it relates to inability to understand what‘s deceived.
that planet. So, traditionally when happening correctly, and a
Neptune is squaring your warning against signing
Mercury, you‘re advised not to contracts, because one may
179
sign contracts, you‘re advised to potentially be deceived.

be wary of communication,
because you could be deceived.
3. And what happened was in In 2007, at the first exact In 2007, at the first exact
2007, when I was at the first exactoccurrence of the transits, occurrence of the transit,
mathematical hit, my now ex- MaryAnn was shocked when MaryAnn was shocked
husband came to me out of the her ex-husband demanded a when her husband
blue and he demanded a separation. MaryAnn learned unexpectedly demanded a
separation. And he said to me that that her husband had been separation from her and
he—he accused me of intending tracking her electronic accused MaryAnn of
to have an affair—which had not correspondence for 3 years, intending to have an affair.
been true—but what he did was and he accused her of an
he put a spy surveillance system intention to have an affair.
on my computer, and for 3 years I MaryAnn was unaware that
did not know he was tracking she had been spied on, and
every e-mail, every surprised by her husband‘s
correspondence. accusations, because they
were not true.
4. Okay, so this begins the MaryAnn‘s behavior Under Neptune‘s and
Neptune-Mercury issue here. And exemplified how she Mercury‘s influence
so he was reading e-mails that he experienced the Neptune- MaryAnn believed her
didn‘t understand and Mercury issue. She was led husband was sincere when
misconstruing them in his own to believe that her husband he said he doubted her
way, and he had me believing that sincerely doubted her fidelity fidelity.
he truly believed that I was going after misunderstanding her
to have an affair. correspondence.
5. And he demanded a separation MaryAnn had been During the first two
and he demanded that I sign manipulated to believe that passages of Neptune to
papers And in the papers that I her husband‘s accusations MaryAnn‘s Mercury,
signed—it wound up being two were sincere, and in order to MaryAnn had been
different sets of contracts—and it save their marriage and prove manipulated by her
happened over the first hit and herself and she signed two husband to sign financial
then the second mathematical hit, sets of financial contracts in papers in his favor, which
where he said I never loved him his favor. This happened she did in order to save
and I had only married him for during the first two passes of their marriage.
money. And we had been together Neptune to her Mercury.
for 15 years. He said, Prove to me There was a total of five
that you didn‘t marry me for passes of Neptune to her
money. And he had me sit at my natal Mercury during this
kitchen table without a lawyer, transit
without any legal advisement, and
I signed the contract, where I
signed away my rights to
everything—all of the assets—in
an effort to save my marriage,
because I believed that he thought
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that I only married him for money

and that he thought I was going to
have an affair. Now, none of this
was true, but he had
psychologically manipulated me
to the point where I truly believed
that this information that he
thought was correct, that I was
desperate to save my marriage
and my family. So I signed these
two papers—these two contracts,
separate, was during the first hit,
during the second hit. For this
transit, I received five
mathematical hits.
6. As you know, with an outer MaryAnn explained that MaryAnn exemplified the
planet transit, sometimes you get when an outer planet transits meaning of Neptune‘s
three, sometimes you get five. So a natal planet, it may aspect it transit to her Mercury by
this one I got five. So it was between three to five times. describing how, during the
during those first two that I was MaryAnn got five exact hits first two passages of
under the cloudy influence of to her natal Mercury from Neptune, she was not
signing papers when I didn‘t have Neptune. During the first two seeing the situation clearly,
all the information. And what hits she did not have all the and had been deceived by
happened was he never tried to information and did not have her husband into giving
save the marriage. Instead, what clarity about the situation, him the financial rights to
he was doing was just trying to but signed the papers their assets.
protect his assets, and he moved thinking it would save her
out a few weeks after I had signed marriage. Her husband,
all of the property out of my however, did not make
name. I kept signing things—I efforts to save their marriage,
kept signing, signing, signing. and moved out as soon as she
And he moved out. gave him the financial rights
to their assets.
7. And then a couple of months During the third hit of MaryAnn received the
later, I was, I think, at the third Neptune to her natal news about her husband‘s
mathematical hit, I started getting Mercury, MaryAnn received deception during the third
anonymous phone calls to my new information from an ―hit‖ of Neptune to her
house from a woman who insisted anonymous person that her natal Mercury. She did not
that my ex-husband was having husband had been unfaithful want to believe it because
an affair the whole time, and that and had made a premeditated her perception was
this was a carefully premeditated plan to turn things around clouded. She attributed this
plan to turn it around, make him and make MaryAnn look like lack of clarity to the
look like the good guy, make me she had destroyed their Neptune-Mercury transit.
look like I was the one who had marriage and was money-
destroyed our marriage and make hungry. He wanted to get
me look like I was money- their financial assets for
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hungry, so that I could sign over himself and leave MaryAnn

everything and he would have with nothing. MaryAnn did
everything and I would have not want to believe this
nothing. And I said, ―No, no, no.‖ information because her
I didn‘t believe here. I did not perception was not clear,
believe her, because Mercury was which she attributed to the
under my Neptune—excuse me, influence of Neptune on
Neptune was influencing my Mercury. The anonymous
Mercury. I didn‘t want to believe informant, however, insisted
her. And she kept calling me, and that she had evidence and
she said, Please meet with me, I invited MaryAnn to meet
have evidence. So I met with her with her.
and she gave me evidence.
8. And that was the beginning of MaryAnn started to realize MaryAnn realized she had
me realizing that I had been that she had been deceived been deceived and what
deceived and I had been and discarded, and at that she knew as a general
discarded. And all of the point, the traditional meaning of the Neptune-
traditional—what you would meanings associated with Mercury transit had
expect with Neptune‘s square to Neptune squaring Mercury manifested in her life in a
Mercury—it manifested for me. started to become clear for concrete form.
her.
9. And I was an astrologer and I In spite of MaryAnn‘s MaryAnn was unable to
knew that this could happen, yet astrological knowledge that use her astrological
it still happened, because I was something like this could knowledge of the meaning
under that influence. So, when the happen, she was unable to associated with the transit
awareness kicked in by that third recognize the deception of Neptune to Mercury
mathematical hit, and the because she was under the because she felt influenced
following two hits I took him to influence of the transit. She by that transit and was not
court and I won a trial—we ended became aware of the seeing the situation clearly.
up going to trial over this—and possibility of having been When the understanding
that woman testified and gave the deceived during the third hit that she had been deceived
evidence in court and the papers, of Neptune to her natal hit MaryAnn, she took her
the contracts that I had signed, Mercury, and during the next ex-husband to court,
were overturned, and that fraud two hits she took her husband proved the fraud, and won
proven to court, proved the fraud, the trial.
and won the trial.
10. So that‘s a very clear, I think, MaryAnn concluded that this MaryAnn became aware of
a very vivid example of Neptune, was a vivid example of how the meaning of Neptune‘s
how it could cloud your Neptune can manifest its influence as clouding one‘s
judgment: you‘re missing influence by clouding one‘s judgment, and she was able
information and you‘re signing judgment so that one might to integrate this
things that you shouldn‘t sign. sign important papers understanding into her life.
And then by the end of the transit without having all the
you gain the awareness and you necessary information. By
learn how to properly integrate the end of the transit,
that energy. MaryAnn gained more
182
awareness about the true

nature of the situation, and
she learned how to better
integrate Neptune‘s energy in
her life.
(I: So did astrology inform your
decisions at that point, or were
you not taking that into account?
I’m wondering how that’s
connected.)
11. Well, the first couple of hits I In the beginning of the Under the influence of
was in a fog. I was really in an Neptune Mercury transit, Neptune‘s transit to her
emotional shock. So I was unable MaryAnn was in a mental Mercury, MaryAnn was
to—I didn‘t want to believe what state of fog and emotional unable to use her
I saw. I saw it in the astrology, shock. She did not want to astrological knowledge of
and I knew logically what I was believe what she saw this transit to protect
seeing. And if I were a client of indicated by astrology. She herself from deceit. After
mine, I would have advised my would have advised a client getting evidence of her
client about this, but because it undergoing such a transit of husband‘s dishonesty, she
was me going through it, I still the potential effects, but realized that she had been
went through the difficult part because it was a personal deceived. At that point, she
and signed the papers anyway. experience, MaryAnn went was able to use her new
But once I realized—once I met through the difficult part and awareness and change her
with the woman and I realized signed the papers. When she response to this situation.
that I was being fooled and realized that she had been
deceived, I was able to take that fooled and deceived, after
and turn it around and become receiving evidence of her
more aware. husband‘s deceit, MaryAnn
became more aware and was
able to use this information
to change her response to the
situation.
(I: So, you were under the
influence of that aspect, but
through the evidence you were
able to kind of see clearly, right?
And sort of change the direction
of how the situation went?)
12. Yes. By the end of it—by the By the last two hits of the MaryAnn was able to
last two mathematical hits, I was Neptune-Mercury transit, change her understanding
able to turn it around and MaryAnn was able to turn and behavior in the
dissolve—Neptune—dissolve the the situation around and situation after she had
papers, the contracts—Mercury— dissolve the contracts that evidence of the deceit.
that I had signed. So I was able to she had signed. She noted a
turn that energy around. symbolic association
between the traditional
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meaning of Neptune as
dissolving things, and her
dissolving the contracts
previously signed.
(I: Can you give me an example,
maybe something that you
understand about yourself and
how astrology helps you to
understand something about
yourself?)
13. Sure. Okay, so I have Aries MaryAnn gave an example Astrology gives MaryAnn
rising. And the ruler of my rising from her natal chart. She has a symbolic tool for
sign would be Mars in Cancer. Aries rising, and the ruler of identification of her
And Mars in Cancer is very close Aries rising, Mars is in negative and positive
to the nadir in my birth chart—the Cancer in the 3rd house of qualities. She uses this
4th house cusp, but it‘s in the 3rd her chart, but close to the 4th knowledge for redirecting
house. So, this helps me to house cusp. Mars is squaring and channeling her energy
understand that I am the type of Pluto. MaryAnn understands in a constructive way.
person who can have a bad this astrological
temper. Mars is squaring my configuration as an indicator
Pluto. I can have a very bad of having a bad temper. She
temper, and I yell. Mars is in my knows that she could express
3rd house. And if I do not do her temper by yelling.
something physical, if I‘m not MaryAnn knows that if she is
involved in exercise—weight not involved in some
training, any physical activity— physical activity such as
that tendency could get out of exercise, her tendency to yell
control for me, and I could yell could get out of control. Her
much more than I would want to. astrological knowledge helps
And so I notice about myself—I her to see the pattern and
could see it and I could also see understand how to help
how to help the pattern. And so herself. Having a physical
Aries‘ energy and strong Mars outlet for MaryAnn‘s strong
energy—the Mars square Pluto— Mars/Aries energy is a better
it is always better to have a way of expressing it than
physical outlet, so I am very yelling, and MaryAnn
physically active. remains very physically
active.
(I: How do you experience
astrology in your life? How do
you see it—what your experience
is with it? I know that you’re a
professional astrologer, but I’m
now asking about your personal
experiences?)
14. Well, I see it as a lens where MaryAnn sees astrology as a MaryAnn uses astrology as
184
I‘m looking at this chart, and so lens through which much of a lens of self-understanding
much of my own character is her character is validated. It and self-validation.
validated when I study astrology. is a validation of her Astrological knowledge
And it‘s a true validation of my personality and potential. It helps her understand her
personality and potential. And I also helps her to more fully needs, see her potential
can understand more about my understand her needs, what more fully, and determine
needs and what I need to be she needs to be fulfilled, and how to channel her energy
fulfilled as a person and how I how to channel her energy. most effectively.
need to channel my energy.
15. I could see very clearly for MaryAnn discussed her Knowledge of astrology
example that I—as an astrologer, initial understanding of the gives MaryAnn a symbolic
I learned early on, I‘m sure you meaning of Uranus: presentation of the
did as well—the planet Uranus, traditionally, it indicates a potential future, although it
which is sudden upheaval, it is sudden upheaval. In does not always prepare
right on my descendant, the exact MaryAnn‘s chart, Uranus is her for it, as she found in
degree of my descendant. So, as placed on her descendant. the situation when her
an astrologer, I always had feared Based on her astrological husband demanded a
that that would manifest as a knowledge, MaryAnn feared separation from her.
sudden divorce or sudden death that it would manifest as a
my spouse. And when I was sudden divorce or the sudden
married, I used to tell my husband death of her spouse. When
all the time, you know, ―That she was married, she told her
makes me nervous, I don‘t know husband all the time of her
what that could mean, because I nervousness and not knowing
would never leave you, I‘m a what this placement could
Taurus—I would never leave a mean. She could not see
marriage.‖ But it did manifest, herself leaving her husband
and I saw it, and I could see: I or marriage. But the pattern
said, ―When I‘m 33 years old, I‘m manifested when she was 33
so afraid something‘s going to years old. MaryAnn could
happen to you.‖ And what anticipate that something was
happened was when I was 33, it going to happen to her
was a sudden separation— husband, and there was a
suddenly, overnight. Literally sudden separation. It
overnight. he pulled the rug out happened literally overnight,
from under me. But I could see it; in a shocking and sudden
I could see the potential there. fashion, and MaryAnn had
seen that potential in her
natal chart.
16. And I could also see how I MaryAnn described a MaryAnn sees her
have a tendency to attract tendency to attract extremely psychological tendencies
extremely manipulative men into manipulative men into her and external experience
my life, because the exact— life, and she associated this symbolically represented in
there‘s an exact opposition with the exact opposition of her chart.
between Venus and Pluto on my Venus and Pluto in her natal
chart. It‘s the tightest aspect, and chart. She also associates this
185
I could see how that comes up in aspect, with the legal battle
the struggles that I‘m going with her ex-husband, and the
through now with the legal battle power struggle over money
with my ex-husband. There‘s a and control. Also, her
significant power struggle over husband committed crimes
money—control. And he‘s against MaryAnn, which is
committed crimes against me. also associated with Venus-
This is all Venus-Pluto stuff. And Pluto aspects. MaryAnn
you could see it in—you know, I could give more examples of
mean, could go on and on. this aspect.
17. My Moon-Neptune MaryAnn has a Moon- MaryAnn associated her
conjunction—I had a very Neptune conjunction in her Moon-Neptune conjunction
specific fantasy—I idealized chart, which she associated with her tendency to
motherhood. I thought with her fantasy about and idealize motherhood. Her
motherhood would be the most idealization of motherhood. fantasy about motherhood
wonderful, perfect thing in the She anticipated that as the most wonderful and
world. Moon-Neptune motherhood would be the perfect thing was torn apart
conjunction. Well, I became a most wonderful and perfect when she became a mother.
mother when Pluto was transiting experience. She became a MaryAnn understood her
that conjunction. It was transiting mother when Pluto was tendency to delude oneself
Pluto with conjunct my Moon- transiting that conjunction. It in regards to motherhood
Neptune conjunction, and it dispelled MaryAnn‘s better by reflecting on the
completely tore up my illusions illusions and fantasies about symbolism of her chart.
and fantasies about being a motherhood completely. Her
mother. Being a mother was experience was not at all as
nothing that I had anticipated. she had anticipated. Making
And so I could see where I tend to a connection to her chart,
delude myself. It‘s amazing. MaryAnn pointed out that
she could see where she
would tend to delude herself
and it amazes her how her
life experience and chart
symbolism overlap.
(I: So, have you been using
astrology to understand
something for a long time? Like
for your entire life? How long
have you used it?)
18. Since 2003, I‘ve been MaryAnn has been studying MaryAnn has been
studying and practicing astrology. and practicing astrology studying and using
since 2003. astrology for 7 years.
(I: So for a few years. How is
your experience knowing
astrology different than before?)
19. Well, the more I‘m using it, MaryAnn uses astrology to MaryAnn currently uses
the more I see the cyclical see the cyclical patterns in astrology for timing of
186
patterns of when something different experiences. Right different experiences. She

would begin and when it will end. now, as she is going through knows when the particular
Like, so right now for example, a legal battle and a divorce transits will end and this
I‘m going through a significant with her ex-husband, she is knowledge helps her cope
legal battle and a divorce. And using astrology to track the with difficult experiences
I‘m using the astrology to track timing and to see that there and anticipate a resolution
my cycles and to see that, yes, will be an end to the difficult of the matter in a certain
there will be an ending to this. time. She is simultaneously time.
And what I‘m tracking is a transit tracking a transit of Pluto
in Pluto is now square my natal squaring her natal Venus and
Venus, transiting Saturn is a transit of Saturn opposing
opposing my natal Venus at the her natal Venus. She views
same time. This is a very difficult and experiences these transits
time for love and money, when as difficult times for love and
Venus is affected. But I can see, money. But as an astrologer,
as an astrologer, when these she knows when the transits
cycles end, and that helps me will end and this knowledge
know that, okay, my divorce and helps her cope with the
the finances will be settled by this difficult experience and
time. anticipate a resolution of the
matter in a certain time.
(I: You mentioned something
about astrology validated you,
right—I guess your self-
knowledge. Can you give me
more specifics about this? How
does it validate?)
20. Okay, I‘ll give you an easy MaryAnn discussed an MaryAnn uses her
example: the Sun in Taurus. example of how she understanding of
When I learned about the understands her Sun in astrological archetypes to
archetype that a Sun in Taurus is Taurus. She learned from make choices and express
a very security-driven person traditional astrology that a her energy on a positive
likes to keep things stable, and Sun in Taurus represents a versus negative spectrum.
when I began to understand that if very security driven person In her example of how she
I‘m operating on my shadow side who prefers stability. expresses her Sun in
of the Taurus side, from the MaryAnn realized that if she Taurus, MaryAnn chooses
perspective of living in fear and operated on the negative side to express self-confidence
doubting my own self-worth and of this archetype, she would and appreciation of her
my own talents and abilities, be living in fear, doubting talents, rather than
that‘s when I could cling to the her self-worth and talents, doubting herself and
material world too much. and clinging to the material clinging to material
Whereas if I‘m channeling my world too much. If she were security.
Taurus energy in the higher realm living this archetype on its
where I want to be, then I‘m positive side, she would be
learning how to embrace my own embracing her talents and
talents and abilities and how to learning how to take care of
187
take care of myself in the physical herself materially. She

world. And so you could see the pointed out how one could
balance of energy, how you could choose to shift the expression
consciously shift it from a of this archetype from a
negative manifestation to a negative manifestation to a
positive manifestation. positive one.
(I: And you’re using your
knowledge to sort of strive for the
higher?)
21. Yes Yes MaryAnn uses astrological
knowledge to strive for the
higher good.
(I: Give me some other examples
of how does astrology validates
you? Because you just gave me an
example of how you use it for
your higher benefit.)
22. Oh, how it validates me. MaryAnn discusses how MaryAnn finds validation
Okay, well, one—my intuitive astrology helps her self- of her qualities in the
side—I was always questioning validation. She had doubts astrological meaning of her
whether or not I had any kind of about the validity of her chart. For example, she had
valid intuition. And, as an intuition, but, being an doubted her intuitive
astrologer, of course, your astrologer, she often has to perceptions, but after
intuition does tend to come out, use her intuition. However, studying astrology she saw
but I‘m very practical. So, I being a practical person, she many indications of the
always looked for proof. I would always looked for proof, intuitive faculty in her own
look for facts and data and that facts, and data. After chart. That helped her
the science of astrology appealed studying astrology, and validate her intuition.
to me. But, as I began to study my understanding her own chart
birth chart more, and I saw all of more, she saw indications of
these significant intuitive her intuitive faculty in it. It
indicators—the Moon-Neptune helped her validate her inner
conjunction in the eighth house, perceptions.
you know, the Jupiter in the 12th
house squaring that Moon-
Neptune conjunction—it allowed
me to validate what I know deep
inside exists.
(I: Would you give me specific
examples—as specific as you can
be, that’s helpful. You know, tell
me about the archetypes which
are more meaningful. How do you
experience that?)
Yes. Yes.
(I: Okay. Can you think of any
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other experience? Just give me

some other example of how you
experience astrology, how it
helped you to understand
something. )
23. Okay, I have another one that MaryAnn gave an example MaryAnn, following
comes to mind. When Pluto was of how she understands an traditional astrology,
transiting my Moon-Neptune experience in her life using interpreted Pluto‘s transit
conjunction, right before I had myastrological knowledge. Pluto to her natal Moon-Neptune
first child—as you know, the transited her natal Moon conjunction as a symbolic
Moon also rules your mother— Neptune conjunction right indication of a significant
and Pluto going over your Moon before she had her first child. transformation of a
by transit could indicate a MaryAnn, following relationship with her
significant transformation in yourtraditional astrology, mother, which may involve
relationship with your mother, or explained that the Moon an ending, even death, as
sometimes the death of your rules one‘s mother, and Pluto traditionally
mother, although we don‘t like to Pluto‘s transit over the Moon symbolizes the cycles of
predict death, but Pluto is that could indicate a significant death and rebirth.
planet of death and rebirth. transformation in a person‘s
relationship with his or her
mother, even the mother‘s
death. Even though MaryAnn
is cautious about predicting
death, she associates Pluto
with the cycles of death and
rebirth, and sees it as
indicative of both ending and
new beginning.
24. So I had Neptune next to my In her natal chart, MaryAnn When Pluto transited
Moon. So these two planets has Neptune next to the MaryAnn‘s natal
cannot operate without each Moon, and she considers the conjunction of Neptune-
other; they must be connected. meaning of this pattern to be Moon, her mother
And Neptune does cloud what it that these two planets cannot attempted suicide, which
touches. Well, I had some operate without each other; MaryAnn understands as
delusions about my mother. And they must be connected. Pluto‘s influence on her
Pluto came across this Neptune also clouds what he Moon. MaryAnn had
conjunction—and this is in my touches. MaryAnn correlated delusions about her mother
8th house, which rules joint this to her having delusions which she associated with
finances, as you know, and credit about her mother. When the Neptune-Moon
and all sorts of investment Pluto transited her natal conjunction.
money. Pluto came to conjunct Neptune-Moon conjunction,
my Moon-Neptune conjunction in in her 8th house, her mother
the 8th house, and what happened attempted suicide. In
was my mother attempted suicide. traditional astrology the 8th
And that‘s Pluto-Moon. house is associated with
credit, joint finances, and
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investment money.
25. And the reason she attempted MaryAnn‘s mother had MaryAnn associated her
suicide was because of the bipolar disorder, and mom‘s having bipolar
finances—she was bipolar, she MaryAnn associated the disorder with the
had been bipolar for many years, tendency for her mom to be symbolism of Neptune
and that‘s also showing in my mentally ill with MaryAnn‘s Moon conjunction in
birth chart—that‘s another natal Moon-Neptune MaryAnn‘s chart. During
pattern—you can also clearly see conjunction. MaryAnn‘s the Pluto transit,
the tendency for my mother to mother attempted suicide MaryAnn‘s mom
have mental illness with that because she had committed attempted suicide because
Moon-Neptune conjunction. But identity theft and had she had defrauded
she attempted suicide because she defrauded MaryAnn by MaryAnn by using
had also defrauded me—she taking out many credit cards MaryAnn‘s identity to take
committed identity theft, and she in MaryAnn‘s name. out many credit cards in
took out many credit cards in my MaryAnn‘s credit was ruined her name. MaryAnn‘s
name without me knowing it and as a result. credit was ruined as a
got herself deep into debt— result.
however, it was me, because it
was my name. She ruined my
credit.
26. I didn‘t know. Again, how MaryAnn did not know about MaryAnn understands her
would I know? That Neptune in her mother‘s behavior. She experience of being twice
the 8th house is very—you can understood the symbolism of deceived in financial
really easily be deceived when it Neptune in her 8th house as matters as symbolized by
comes to big money. And it an indicator of someone who her natal placement of
happened twice in my life in a can be easily deceived when Neptune in the 8th house.
very significant way. it comes to large sums of
money. It has happened twice
in MaryAnn‘s life.
27. So, she tried to commit MaryAnn‘s mom tried to During Pluto‘s transit to
suicide while Pluto was going commit suicide during the her natal Moon-Neptune
over this, and then it was revealed Pluto transit over MaryAnn‘s conjunction, MaryAnn
what had happened. And I had to Moon-Neptune conjunction. became disillusioned with
commit my mother to a mental MaryAnn had to commit her her mother, and realized
institution during that time. So mother to a mental institution that her mother was a
Pluto purged my ideals of my at that time. Her ideals were mentally ill person who
mother during that time, and I purged during that time, and needed help. MaryAnn had
was able to see her for a mentally she recognized that her mom to commit her mother to a
ill woman who needed help. And was a mentally ill woman mental institution after her
that was very significant for me, who needed help. This mother‘s attempt at
because it was very healing for realization was significant suicide.
me as well. and healing for MaryAnn.
28. And I was able to forgive my MaryAnn was able to forgive MaryAnn explained her
mother, which many people her mother, which many ability to forgive her
would have a hard time doing. people would have had a mother‘s behavior to be
But that Jupiter in Pisces that I hard time doing. She views symbolized by her natal
190
have in the 12th house is her compassionate and Jupiter squaring Moon-
extremely compassionate and it forgiving nature to be Neptune. MaryAnn
squares that Moon-Neptune symbolized by her natal attributes her
conjunction. So I‘m a little too Jupiter in Pisces in the 12th compassionate and
forgiving sometimes. I‘m very house, squaring her Moon- forgiving nature to Jupiter
willing to overlook people‘s Neptune conjunction. in Pisces in her 12th house.
faults, because I see that, you MaryAnn thinks that she is At the same time,
know, we‘re all human and we all too forgiving sometimes. She MaryAnn had to commit
make mistakes and I want to is willing to overlook her mother to the mental
believe in the good in everyone. people‘s faults because she institution because her
So I had to commit my mother thinks it is human to make mom was not in control of
into the mental institution, but at mistakes, and she believes in her own behavior.
the same time, I knew that she the good in everyone. She MaryAnn thinks that this
was not in control of her own had to commit her mother to shift in her relationship
behavior. So I was able to forgive the mental institution because with her mother was
her and have a very good she knew that her mother was brought up by a Pluto
relationship now. So that was not in control of her own transit over her natal
another example of Pluto going behavior. MaryAnn was able Moon-Neptune
over that Moon-Neptune to forgive her mother and conjunction.
conjunction and how it affected have a good relationship with
me. her later. In MaryAnn‘s
understanding, this was
another manifestation of
Pluto going over her Moon-
Neptune conjunction.
29. Another thing that I MaryAnn returned to how MaryAnn gave an example
understand about myself is, again, she understands her temper. of how her temper and
going back to my temper. If you She pointed out that her natal anger growing up were
go back to the Mars in the 3rd Mars is in the 3rd house in connected to having a
house—and I don‘t even know if Cancer, and about 3 degrees violent childhood and
you have my birth chart available away from the nadir and in being imprinted by it. She
to look at while we‘re doing this, square to Pluto, in the 6th sees this experience
but—Okay, so I have Mars in house. MaryAnn views this symbolized by her natal
Cancer again. It‘s in the 3rd configuration as symbolic of Mars debilitated and close
house, it‘s about 3 degrees away a violent childhood due to to the nadir and in square
from the nadir, and it is square in Mars being debilitated and at to Pluto.
Pluto, which is in the 6th house. the nadir. She did have an
So that aspect can symbolize in a alcoholic father who was
horoscope a violent childhood. physically abusive to her
Mars is debilitated because of mother. MaryAnn grew up
Mars being in Cancer, and it‘s seeing the pattern of violence
right up there at the nadir, it can and it made an imprint on
suggest a violent childhood. And her. She associates Mars
sure enough, my father was an squaring Pluto in her natal
alcoholic and he was significantly chart with her feelings of
physically abusive to my mother. anger growing up. She,
191
And I grew up seeing this, so I however, has always

grew up getting that pattern of recognized this tendency in
violence imprinted onto me. Mars herself.
squared Pluto. And it made me
very angry growing up. So I
recognized—I have always
recognized that I have that
tendency right there.
30. Fortunately, I also have MaryAnn continued her MaryAnn‘s knowledge of
Saturn in Cancer conjunct—a example by pointing out that her chart helped her to
wide conjunction to that Mars. she has Saturn conjoined to understand, access, and
And that helps me to control that Mars in her natal chart, and utilize her inherent talents
tendency. That, and also the she feels that this more fully and to express
knowledge of using my strong configuration helps her her energy in a positive
Mars energy in other physical control her temper. She also way.
ways. That also helps. But the recognized that it would be
Saturn conjunct Mars and both of beneficial to give other
them square in Pluto allows me to physical outlets to her Mars
control that angle, redirect it into energy, in order to keep this
passionate ways of healing other energy under control. She
people for my work, with my feels that Saturn‘s being
Pluto in the 6th house. And the conjoined to her Mars and
3rd house also, I‘ve always square to Pluto allows her to
wanted to be a writer and a be more in control of her
psychologist, so that‘s 8th house temperament and redirect it
and the 3rd house really into ways of healing others.
operating. And that 3rd house She connected her desire of
Mars-Saturn conjunction allows being a writer and a
me to communicate with psychologist to the 8th house
passion—because it‘s Mars—but and the 3rd house, where she
then the Saturn pulls it in and has Pluto and Mars
allows me to crystallize and focus respectively. The Mars-
my thoughts and ideas as I Saturn conjunction
communicate them to other symbolizes her ability to
people. So I can see how—your communicate with passion,
talents are all there, and you can because Mars is traditionally
access them when you‘re using associated with it, and Saturn
that energy. helps MaryAnn to crystallize
and focus her thoughts and
ideas when she
communicates. She views all
configurations of her chart as
symbolic of her talents and
capacities, and that she is
accessing them more fully
through her knowledge of
192
astrology.
(I: So, what if you were to
summarize how you’re using
astrology in your life—what else
could you say? You told me some
things, but I would like to hear
from you how you understand
what the benefit of this is, or
maybe what may be some
negative aspects of it.)
31. Okay, the benefits would be MaryAnn described some of MaryAnn‘s study of
self-understanding, validating benefits of her use of astrology helped her see
your talents and abilities and astrology, such as self- her psychological patterns
being able to learn how to work understanding, validation of more clearly, and learn to
with your energy to manifest your one‘s talent and abilities, how to direct them in a
positive qualities, and also learning how to manifest positive way. MaryAnn
overcome some of your one‘s positive qualities, and uses her astrological
psychological obstacles, okay? overcoming psychological knowledge for planning
I‘ve explained a couple of obstacles. MaryAnn talked and timing her activities.
different patterns that I probably about the patterns inherited
inherited from the parental from her parental influences,
influence: the pattern of potential such as exposure to violence
violence of there; the pattern of in her family, mental illness,
mental illness is also there—you alcoholism, and her intuition.
know, the alcoholism; as well as MaryAnn‘s study of
the intuition. All of these patterns astrology helped her see
you can see, and you can learn these patterns more clearly,
how to positively direct them in and learn how to direct them
other ways. And that‘s a very in a positive way. She
useful tool, when you can look at considers this a very useful
astrology in that way. But it‘s aspect of astrology.
also useful for planning, because Astrology is also useful for
we can use astrology to see cycles planning and timing. She
of development, and to time knows what is a favorable
important things in our life. So I time to start an activity, and
can use astrology for planning. I uses astrology both
know when it is a good time to practically and for
begin a new business venture, or psychological self-
when it is a good time to sign a empowerment.
contract, or when it is a bad time
to schedule this meeting. So you
could use astrology in that
practical way. And I think I use
astrology in both that practical
way, and in the more
psychological self-empowerment
193
way
(I: I’m just wondering if there’s
anything right now that you could
tell me what the experience of
some transit or some other
astrological pattern is in your
life.)
32. Okay, I have—I definitely MaryAnn gave an example MaryAnn is currently
have—transiting Pluto is square of a current transit she is experiencing a transit of
my natal Venus right now, and having: Pluto is squaring her Pluto squaring her natal
transiting Saturn is opposing my natal Venus, and Saturn is Venus, and, at the same
natal Venus right now. This is opposing her natal Venus. time, Saturn opposing her
restricting my love life She associates this transit natal Venus, as a restriction
completely. I am unable to really with the restriction in her on her love life. She is
move on in my personal life. I‘m love life. She is unable to focusing on her career and
still tying up the divorce and I‘m move on in her personal life healing her children, and is
unable to date. I‘m not meeting and is still in the process of unable to date or meet new
people. I‘m really focusing on my finishing her divorce. She is people.
career and healing my children unable to date or meet new
right now. And Mars—I don‘t people. Instead she is
know if I could bring in another focusing on her career and
person‘s chart—is it okay to bring healing her children. She
in my son‘s chart, or do you want asked the researcher if she
to stick to my chart? could discuss her son‘s chart
in that regard.
(I: No, it’s fine. The main thing is
I’m interested in how you
understand something. So if you
understand something from his
chart, that’s fine.)
33. It‘s very relevant here. My MaryAnn discussed her son‘s MaryAnn understands a
son is a Leo. And he has the Sun, chart as relevant to her retrograde transit of Mars
Moon, and north node in Leo in understanding of Mars‘s to her son‘s chart as having
the 6th house of health. And as symbolism and the issues of caused an accident for her
you know, right now, Mars is healing her children. son. He slipped, fell, and
retrograde in Leo. And the MaryAnn‘s son has his Sun, broke his elbow when
retrograde energy of Mars, it Moon, and North Node in Mars was retrograde in his
internalizes the expression and Leo in the 6th house, house of health, triggering
also the energy that we have. So, associated with health. Mars a challenging configuration
Mars has been retrograde over his is currently retrograde in of his horoscope.
sixth house stellium of Leo Leo. MaryAnn interprets
planets, and during this time, 6th retrograde energy of Mars as
house health, it activated a 6th internalized anger and energy
Grand Cross in his chart. He has in general. MaryAnn‘s son
the Sun and Moon opposing had a transit of retrograde
Mars, and it‘s squaring—excuse Mars over his 6th house, and
194
me, opposing Uranus, squaring planets in Leo; it also

Mars, squaring Saturn, so the 6th activated another challenging
Grand Cross. And what happened configuration in his chart,
with him is when Mars called a Grand Cross. Grand
retrograded over the degree of his Cross includes his Sun and
Sun, he slipped and fell and broke Moon opposing Uranus,
his elbow. squaring Mars, and squaring
Saturn. During Mars‘s
transit, MaryAnn‘s son
slipped, fell, and broke his
elbow.
34. And I knew this was coming. MaryAnn anticipated that her MaryAnn anticipated a
I knew my son‘s 6th house, son‘s health might be potential health hazard for
health—this is a trigger, Mars is challenged, that Mars would her son when Mars was
the trigger—and was very act as a trigger. She was retrograding over his natal
concerned about something concerned about it, but she 6th house of health, and
happening, but I could not predict could have not predicted how triggering a challenging
how severe it would manifest. All severely it would manifest configuration in his chart.
I knew was, ―Okay, I have to itself. MaryAnn realized she She could not predict the
really be on the lookout.‖ But it needed to be on the lookout. severity of the problem,
didn‘t matter, because it was just But her knowledge did not and in spite of her concern,
one of those quick accidents that help, because the accident and being on guard,
you cannot control. He was was quick, sudden, and could MaryAnn‘s son had an
running the hall, he slipped, and have not been controlled. accident at that time. He
he broke his elbow. And it was MaryAnn‘s son was running broke his elbow, and in
during the Mars transit. And then in the hall, slipped and broke addition developed high
what happened right after that is his elbow. The accident took fever and an ear infection.
Mars went over his Moon. And place when his Mars MaryAnn views these
he got a very, very high fever, he transited over his natal experiences as
was sick for a while, ear Moon. In addition to manifestations of Mars
infection, he was very sick during breaking his elbow, the boy transit over her son‘s 6th
the time that he broke the elbow. got very sick for a while with house.
high fever and an ear
infection.
35. And also during this time, At the time of his accident, MaryAnn uses her
he‘s been going to evaluations at MaryAnn‘s son had been astrological understanding
school for learning because his having evaluations at school of transits as a timer of
Mercury‘s also involved in that as for learning. Learning is important cycles in one‘s
well. And it‘s all in the 6th house, traditionally associated with life. She gave an example
and I can see this, as an Mercury in astrology, and of the transit of Mars over
astrologer, that during this Mars MaryAnn‘s son‘s Mercury is her son‘s natal 6th house,
retrograde period, my son is in a in his 6th house. MaryAnn which coincided not only
very crucial time of realigning a viewed Mars‘s retrograde with health issues but with
lot of his own essence. And once period as representative of a a crucial time in her son‘s
this Mars goes direct, I feel like very crucial time for her son internal development.
he will be coming into a new to realign his own essence. MaryAnn considers it a
195
position of strength in his MaryAnn anticipated that benefit of astrology to see

personal development. And I when Mars goes direct, her the important cycles in her
consider that, as his mother, for son will come into a new son‘s life and to have an
my 10-year-old child. And I think position of strength and a understanding of how to
that‘s a gift to be able to look at new stage in his help him through it.
astrology like that and say, Oh, development. MaryAnn
okay, he‘s going through this considers her ability to use
cycle of development—what can astrology for seeing the
I do as his mother to help him cyclical nature of her son‘s
through it? development and getting
(I: So it helps you to inform your some insight into how she
choices, right? It gives you more can help him through it as a
information.) gift.
Yes.
(I: Broader perspective maybe is
a better way to put it—broader
perspective on the life situations.)
Mmm-hmm.
(I: If you were to choose one
symbol from your chart, or maybe
from the transits that you’re
experiencing, what planetary
symbol would be most intriguing
or influential or interesting for
you right now?)
36. Okay. I am a very ambitious MaryAnn considers herself a MaryAnn considers her
person. And people don‘t realize very ambitious person. She strong drive to succeed in
that when they first meet me. I thinks that it may not be her profession and her
think I can come across as—until immediately apparent ambitious nature a
you start to talk to me, I may because MaryAnn may seem manifestation of the most
come across as a little subdued, subdued on first influential configuration in
but I have this very tight T-square acquaintance. However, she her chart: a T-square
in my horoscope between Venus has a T-square in her chart between her Venus, Saturn
square in Saturn, Saturn square in between Venus, Saturn and and Pluto close to
Pluto. And that T-square pushes Pluto which impacts her Midheaven. MaryAnn
that close to my Midheaven, and Midheaven (traditionally desires to contribute
it really—I am so driven, I am so associated with one‘s career), something to her field and
ambitious and so achievement and she interprets this be respected for her
oriented and do not know how to configuration as her drive achievement in her
accept failure. I do not know how and strong ambition to profession.
to stop pushing myself to excel. I achieve professionally. She
am someone who—it‘s not that continuously pushes herself
I‘m power-hungry; it‘s that I want to excel. It is not the desire
to be very well respected—in my for power that motivates
field, I want to contribute MaryAnn, but rather her need
something of great importance. to be respected in her field.
196
I‘m extremely, extremely driven She desires to contribute

with this passionate spirit. And something of importance in
that‘s probably the fire in my her field. MaryAnn attributes
chart also. And so, you know, that her passionate spirit and her
T-square, I think, is the most driven nature to the element
important stamp in my horoscope. of fire in her chart. She also
considers the T-square
configuration in her chart as
the most influential on her
life and psyche.
(I: Is there anything that you
don’t understand fully? Any
symbol that you don’t really know
what to make of it, or you’re still
kind of pondering about it—in
your chart?)
37. At this point, not so much. I MaryAnn does not fully MaryAnn has a good
was never someone who fully integrate the meaning of understanding of the
integrated Chiron. I have Chiron Chiron from traditional planetary energies in her
on the ascendant and Aries and I astrology. She does not know chart, except that she does
do know that that adds to my what it adds to her healing not fully resonate with or
healing ability, but certain things ability and she does not understand the symbolic
in astrology don‘t resonate with resonate with the symbolism meaning of Chiron.
me personally. Chiron is one of of Chiron. However, she
them. But the planetary energy I understands other planetary
think I have a very good symbolism in her chart very
understanding of. well.
(I: What about your nodes—south
and north nodes?)
38. Yeah, I have a very good MaryAnn understands the MaryAnn, following
understanding and resonance of meaning of her North and traditional astrology,
myself in north node, but my South nodes. Following understands the meaning of
south node is in Gemini in the traditional astrology, her North node in Taurus
2nd house. North node is MaryAnn views her North as an indicator of her life
conjunct. The Moon in the ninth node in Taurus as symbolic direction of embracing her
house in Taurus. of her life direction, which intuitive side and spiritual
(I: So how do you experience that has to do with embracing her awareness and letting go
in your life?) intuitive side and spiritual her strong need to hold
My life direction really does have awareness, and letting go of onto material security.
everything to do with embracing her need to hold onto
my intuitive side, spiritual material security. Being a
awareness—that‘s Taurus and the Taurus and having her north
eighth house is to transcend my node in Taurus amplifies
need to hold onto the material so Taurean lessons in
much. You know, and also I‘m a MaryAnn‘s understanding. .
Taurus, so that‘s kind of
197
amplified in the Taurean lessons.

(I: What is your philosophy about
astrology in general, why do you
think it works, how does it work?)
39. I believe that when we take MaryAnn believes that the MaryAnn believes that
our first life breath, the energy of energy of the planets, their there is a correlation
the planets, wherever they were location in the sky, and the between the planetary
lined up, the mathematical relationship they have among energy and one‘s destiny.
degrees, the relationship that they one another creates a vast She believes that the
have to other planets in the sky— energy field. When people planets represent energetic
all of that is a huge energy field. take their first breath, and the forces that imprint on the
And when we take our first live soul incarnates in the newborn at the moment of
breath and our soul incarnates physical body one has for birth. The soul of the
into the physical body that we are this lifetime, the planetary newborn chooses that
for this lifetime, that energy energy imprints on the moment, according to
imprints onto us in that moment. newborn in that moment. The MaryAnn‘s philosophy,
And the reason why that energy reason such an imprinting because of the specific life
imprints onto us in that moment is occurs is because we chose to lessons it needs to
because we have a soul contract be born at that time. It is a embrace. The soul also gets
where we chose to be born at that soul contract, according to particular talents that will
moment, because those were the the specific lessons we need help it to learn and
specific lessons that we needed to to learn and the talents that embrace its specific
embrace in this life. Those were we chose to have. These lessons.
the talents that we chose to have talents help people to
to help us embrace our lessons embrace their lessons and
and come into our destiny. And come into their destiny.
that‘s my philosophy.
(I: Do the stars reflect something
of natural order, or is there a
God behind this? What is your
belief about this?)
40. I believe that there‘s God MaryAnn believes that there MaryAnn believes that
behind this. I believe that God is is God, the Divine force that God is the divine force
definitely the divine force, who is is in charge of manipulating behind the Universal forces
in charge of manipulating the the Universe. People are a of which human beings are
universe, and we are part of part of God and the universe, a part. God is helping
that—we are part of God and his and they work together with people to come close to the
spark, and we kind of—we work God. Before incarnating, God divine state of
together. Before we come into is helping people to learn the unconditional love by
this incarnation, God is helping us lessons that will brings them learning lessons of life.
to learn these lessons so that we closer to the divine state of Each horoscope indicates
can get one step closer to his unconditional love. Each the direction to that divine
state, which is that divine, horoscope has a unique state, if one can learn how
unconditional love, and every symbolism that can lead one to utilize the planetary
horoscope has its own way that in that direction, if one learns energies.
can lead you in that direction, if how to utilize the energy it
198
you learn how to utilize that represents.

energy.
(I: And I think I’m also going to MaryAnn felt fine with
ask about your date of birth. And, including her chart in the
if you don’t mind, maybe I’ll research. She is public about
include the chart in the her date of birth, and was
research?) fine with the researcher using
Sure. Oh, absolutely. her chart as an illustration of
I: How do you feel about that? experiences discussed.
Yeah, that‘s absolutely fine. I‘m
very public with things like that.
My date of birth is May 8, 1974
at 4:50 a.m., and I was born in
Hollis, New York, and my
ascendant is 24 degrees, 42
minutes Aries. So you can
corroborate that when you create
the chart.
(I: Great. So is there anything
else you would like to add, as far
as the meaning of astrology for
your life? Anything that maybe
we didn’t touch on? You gave me
a lot of very great examples, but
is there anything you want to add
that’s meaningful for you?)
41. I think it‘s just so powerful in MaryAnn considers astrology MaryAnn views astrology
every way. It can validate your a powerful tool for validating as a powerful symbolic
life direction, and it‘s not meant one‘s life direction. She does tool that indicates how to
to pin you—push you in a corner not view astrology as a force best use one‘s tendencies.
and make you feel that you‘re a that conditions people to be a She does not consider it a
victim to whatever your certain way or makes one a limiting force that
horoscope says. I don‘t want victim. She is against the conditions or dooms one to
people to believe that, okay, just belief that if a certain be a certain way. MaryAnn
because you have this conjunction configuration in a horoscope believes that the awareness
in your horoscope you‘re doomed represents a tendency to of one‘s tendencies and
to be an alcoholic. No, not at all. alcoholism, for example, one conscious efforts to express
You can take that energy and you is doomed to be an alcoholic. them in their best
can become a compassionate MaryAnn strongly believes manifestations are needed
healer, you can become an artist, that each person can take the to utilize the energies that
you can be a painter. There are so energy represented in his or astrology symbolizes.
many directions in how to use the her chart and express it in
energy. It‘s just a matter of many directions, such as
awareness first, and then becoming a healer or an artist
consciously directing that energy or a painter instead of an
in your life to the best good. alcoholic, as in her earlier
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example. The awareness is

the first step to being in
control of one‘s energy, and
then making conscious
efforts to direct one‘s life
energy to the highest good.
(I: In other words, you do not use
and never saw astrology as
something that limits you or
controls you, right? It rather
informs you. Do I understand
correctly?)
42. Yes. The only thing that I do MaryAnn does not consider MaryAnn does not
believe is that we cannot avoid astrology limiting, but she consider astrology as
certain lessons. Okay—so I chose believes that certain limiting but believes that
to have that experience with my experiences are unavoidable. some experiences are
mother. I chose to have that She believes that she chose to unavoidable. Such
experience with my ex-husband. I have challenging experiences challenging experiences,
did choose that, I do believe that,with her mom and ex- according to her belief, are
and I do believe that I chose my husband. According to needed to grow and expand
birth chart, and I chose those MaryAnn‘s view, she chose one‘s awareness, and they
transits to happen when they did her birth chart, and the happen because she
to trigger those events, because transits triggering her chart chooses them on the soul
these are lessons that I had to triggered the challenging level.
learn. But I don‘t believe that I events because MaryAnn had
was victimized by that, because— to learn something from
I could have been, if I didn‘t use them. She did not feel
the energy well, but instead I lookvictimized; she does not want
at it as an opportunity to grow as to use astrology that way.
a person and to grow in my own She wants to use it an
level of awareness. opportunity to grow as a
person and expand her level
of awareness.
43. (I: Have you ever approached In the first 6 months or so of In the beginning of her
astrology this way—did you ever MaryAnn‘s study of study of astrology,
feel—I don’t know—threatened or astrology, she occasionally MaryAnn occasionally felt
limited or, I don’t know, was felt threatened or uncertain threatened or uncertain
there any negative side to it?) about what it represented. A about the meaning of her
Well probably the first—only the little information may be a chart and thought that it
first 6 months or so of when I dangerous thing. When she could represent every
began to study astrology. Because got a little bit of information possible problem.
you know how they say a little and she did not know how to
information is a very dangerous put it in the context of her
thing? When you begin to study life, as when a doctor in a
astrology, you get a little bit of medical school thinks that he
information and you don‘t or she has every disease he or
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know—kind of like a doctor in she is learning about,

medical school—they start MaryAnn thought that she
learning about diseases and then had every problem
they begin—they think they have symbolized by her chart.
every disease.
44. So at the very beginning of MaryAnn learned in the When MaryAnn was just
studying astrology, I saw Uranus beginning of her study of beginning to study
right on my descendant, and I astrology that she has Uranus astrology, she feared that
thought my husband was going to on her descendant. She was the meanings of some of
die and I got freaked out and I not certain how that was her chart symbolism were
started saying, ―Oh, my god, raise going to manifest in her life, of literal danger to her
your life insurance, you‘re gonna and feared that her husband husband, like a sudden
die.‖ There were so many silly was going to die. She even death. She did not relate to
things like that. But what I didn‘t asked him to increase the this symbol as an archetype
understand was that since I was amount on his life insurance symbolic of her need to be
so new to studying astrology, I policy for that reason. Now free, innovative, and
didn‘t understand that that she considers her unusual. MaryAnn believes
symbolized an archetype of me interpretations from that time now that she needed to
projecting my own need to be a to be naive. Being new to experience a disruptive
free, innovative, individual studying astrology, MaryAnn relationship in order to get
person onto the spouse, and did not have a deeper in touch with her own
because I was not in touch with understanding of Uranus‘s unusualness and eccentric
that need, I attracted a disruptive archetype as representing her interests, and to see Uranus
relationship to get me in touch own need to be free and as an archetypal symbol of
with the fact that I am an unusual innovative. Because she was her own needs, less so of
person with an eccentric interest. not in touch with these needs literal events which could
Okay, that‘s Uranus on the in herself, she projected them have happened to her
descendant. But that‘s me. It‘s my onto her spouse. MaryAnn husband.
chart. believes that she needed to
experience a disruptive
relationship in order to get in
touch with the fact with her
own unusualness and
eccentric interests. Now she
sees Uranus on the
descendant in her chart as
representative of MaryAnn‘s
qualities, and less so of her
husband‘s.
(I: So in other words, something
about your relationship kind of
mirrored back to you who you Yes.
truly are, right?)
Yes.
(I: And that’s Uranus. I see.
Okay, well I think you gave me a
201
lot of great examples, probably it

could be even more, but we can
conclude here. Let me stop this
interview and I’ll say a couple of
words after I stop recording.
Thank you very much for your
generosity and openness. It’s
really helpful.)
202
Participant 2: Iris

expressed in coresearcher’s psychological language reductions with relevancy
language: (Interviewer’s with relevancy to the to the experience of
italicized) meaning
(I: Hi Iris, this is Elena here, and
we’re gonna start our interviews.
Please tell me in as much detail
as you can, when you first came
to know about astrology and
when you first started to use
astrology. )
1. I didn‘t pay it any mind at all Iris did not pay any serious Iris first got seriously
for a really long time, I would attention to astrology for a interested in astrology when
occasionally read the sun sign long time, although she she came across astrological
horoscopes of about two or three would occasionally read sun sign columns written in
lines in the paper, but just mostly astrological columns in the a positive language that
out of curiosity because there was newspapers, but out of encouraged her to think
nothing else interesting to read. curiosity and as a pastime. more positively.
And then sometime—I think I When she turned 23 years
was about 23 years old, I started old, she started reading
reading horoscopes online and I horoscopes online and
found this English astrologer found an English astrologer,
named Jonathan Cainer, and he is Jonathan Cainer, whose
a sun sign astrologer mostly and writings about the sun signs
he speaks in very positive terms were so positive that it
and it just sounds really sweet encouraged Iris to think
and he makes you think more positively.
positively.
2. And that was a dark period in It was a dark period in Iris‘s During the challenging
my life, I wasn‘t thinking life; she was struggling, period of her life, and in
positively about anything and it thinking negatively and spite of having support, Iris
was really a struggle, and feeling pessimistic about all did not have much hope and
everything that I could think of of her experiences. Even saw everything
rationally looked pretty negative though she had support, she pessimistically. Reading the
so—and emotionally too. I was did not feel hopeful, and optimistic and
supported but I was not in a very when she encountered an nonpatronizing astrological
[hopeful?] place so that‘s—the optimistic but not columns felt positive and
way he wrote seemed to be patronizing writing by the supportive to her.
optimistic in a way that wasn‘t English astrologer it felt
exactly patronizing even if I supportive and positive to
could feel that he was her.
exaggerating sometimes. I don‘t
203
know if that‘s making sense.

3. Anyway, I kept reading these Iris kept reading different Iris was reading online
and maybe some other horoscopes online, and horoscopes but was
horoscopes online and then when when she went to law embarrassed to admit her
I went to law school one of my school, one of her friends interest in astrology to her
friends said ―Well, are you into asked if Iris was interested friends. When one of them
astrology?‖ and I admitted to her, in astrology. Iris admitted introduced her to a popular
you know, was a little with some embarrassment astrological site, Iris became
embarrassed: ―Well actually I that she was reading online so captivated and fascinated
read these horoscopes online.‖ horoscopes. The friend told with studying astrology that
She said that, ―Well have you her about Astro.com, a it took precedence over her
seen Astro.com?‖ and I looked popular astrological site. formal studies.
and from then I was—I don‘t When Iris looked at it she
even know how to tell you—I got so interested and so
was completely hooked. I must engaged that she spent more
have spent more time studying time studying astrology than
astrology than my law classes for her law classes.
because it was so fascinating to
me.
(I: So when you first started to
study astrology, or you know,
started to get fascinated with
Astrology, what struck you the
most? What kind of ideas or
understanding did you get from
those? And you can give me as
many examples as you want.)
4. I wish I could tell you directly On astro.com, Iris came Iris came across the
but astro.com uses two basic across two writers on psychological approach to
people for their horoscopic astrology, Liz Greene and astrology on Astro.com
interpretations. I think Liz Greene Robert Hand. She when she read the writings
writes occasionally but it‘s appreciated the of Liz Greene and Robert
mostly Robert Hand. And they do psychological approach to Hand. Iris appreciated
a psychological kind of astrology astrology that was not psychological astrology that
which was really nice; it was not intended to be showy and offered sophisticated
sort of this showoff-y kind of did not remind her of psychological analysis
stuff that you associate with fortune telling but rather rather than fortunetelling.
fortune telling, and it was also a was a neat psychological
very neat kind of psychological analysis.
analysis.
5. I had been going to Iris had been going to In spite of her long term
psychiatrists for years at that psychiatrists for years but engagement with
point and never had I had had never found any psychiatrists, Iris had been
interpretations that felt like they interpretation about her unable to find any satisfying
actually had any psychological behavior that had any psychological insight into
sophistication or literacy. So psychological sophistication her behavior that had
204
astrology was really the first time or literacy. When she got sophistication and literacy
that I had found psychology to exposed to psychological until she came across
offer something. I knew that it astrology, she first psychological astrology.
could, but it just never had until I discovered that psychology
found these interpretations and I had something valuable to
really liked them. offer. Before that, Iris knew
in theory that psychology
could be helpful, but she
benefited from
psychological
interpretations for the first
time when she found them
in psychological astrology.
(I: Do you remember anything in
particular that you learned about
yourself at that time? Or it can be
something else—just give me
some example of what
psychological understanding you
gained from it. )
6. For example I have Saturn in Iris gave an example from Iris often felt negative about
the 12th house in Virgo and it her chart. She has Saturn in herself but gained a better
squares several of my planets, the 12th house in Virgo and self-understanding and
and I remember very clearly one it squares several of her positive encouragement
line saying, ―You need a bit of other planets. She when she read astrological
humor and self-confidence.‖ And remembered clearly how interpretations that
[both laugh] I remember that so reading an astrological emphasized a need for
clearly. But there were lots of interpretation stating that humor and self-confidence
things like this, you know, in she needed more humor and for her.
talking about how I might feel self-confidence was
about myself, sometimes insightful and accurate in
negatively. her perception. There were
many other interpretations
that corresponded to her
internal experience of
feeling negatively about
herself.
(I: So what in this particular
comment appealed to you—what
you liked about it?)
7. Well, I‘ve always taken myself Iris had been aware that she Astrological comment that
quite seriously and I guess humor had always taken herself advised Iris to be more
is always a big deal for me and I seriously, and had difficulty humorous and confident
also tend to be quite unconfident. approaching her life with summarized the truth that
So just to hear it said so casually humor or being confident. Iris had already known and
was kind of like, Oh, well, you The small astrological stimulated her to start
205
mean—you know in this small comment not only looking for the ways to
comment you could have saved summarized the traits she make changes in her
me not only thousands of dollars already knew about but behavior.
of useless therapy but it was also provoked Iris to look for the
a little irritating, you know? It ways to make changes in
was like yes, I know I need those her behavior.
things so now what? What do I
do? Where else can I find the
keys to discovering those things
in my life? So it was a nudge, you
know what I mean?
(I: Yes. So since then, has your
experience with astrology or use
of astrology changed? How have
you been using it over the time?)
8. Well, I‘ve been trying—oh Iris tried to follow transits Iris does not want to use
god, I can hear a terrible echo. of the Moon and used an astrology for organizing her
Okay it‘s better now. I tried to astrological site, astro.com, daily activities, but she uses
follow the sort of daily transit of for that, but that did not it to understand people. For
the Moon and, you know because serve her well. She could example, in her recent
astro.com summarizes those not see that connections relationship she and her
things for you, and it didn‘t work between her daily boyfriend had their Moon
so well. Maybe it was just hard experiences and the conjunct the North Node of
for me to—I don‘t have the sort summaries she was reading, the partner, and she
of meditative consciousness that and she also felt that experienced this as a very
it would require to be able to say following closely the Moon strong influence in their
okay, for sure this is what is cycles and thinking where it relationship.
happening. And also I think I sort falls in her chart would
of shy away from that because make her scheduling too
then I think, well, you know then complicated. Now Iris uses
I‘ll be scheduling everything astrology to look at other
according to whether the Moon is people‘s charts and
in the right house or is squaring understand them. She
the planet, or whatever and then noticed, for example, that in
scheduling things will become her last relationship her
even more complicated and I Moon and her boyfriend‘s
really don‘t need that so I just Moon were conjunct each
attend to people—other people‘s other‘s North nodes, which
charts. I think I told you the last she perceived as indicating
relationship that I was in, we both something very strong in
had—our Moons were conjunct their relationship dynamic.
each other‘s North node and so
there was something very strong,
maybe almost too strong about it.
9. So anyway, yeah, I still read Iris continues to read sun Iris is interested in sun sign
sun sign astrology just to get a sign astrology because she astrology because she learns
206
feel for how other people tend to is interested in how other from a variety of astrologers
interpret particular patterns, and I astrologers interpret interpretations of particular
read about, oh I don‘t know, 15 particular astrological patterns, and she
horoscopes every week, and it‘s patterns. She reads about 15 occasionally finds insightful
interesting—you know, some horoscopes every week, and and revealing information in
people call themselves astrologers finds that some astrologers them. Even incorrect
and I would never write the kinds write the things that she interpretations do not
of things that they‘re writing, and would never have written, undermine her interest in
the other hand, sometimes they‘ll but occasionally she is sun sign astrology.
surprise me with a particularly surprised with a particularly
insightful, sometimes subtle and insightful, subtle, or
sometimes very obvious comment sometimes obvious
about a transit and I thought, Oh, astrological interpretation.
why didn‘t I realize that it would She finds it occasionally
affect you that way. Then other revealing and, at other
times I think, Oh no, no, it‘s not times, incorrect, but it keeps
at all. So, it‘s interesting. her interest.
(I: Can you give me an example,
when you use astrology—some
situation in your life where
astrology maybe helped you to
understand something, or maybe
something about yourself?)
10. Well, I have a lot of friends Iris connects her sensitivity The reflection on the
who are Aries and my Moon is in with the psychological meaning she associated with
Aries and so I notice that I am expressions of her natal her natal Moon in Aries
very attracted to them and I have Moon in Aries. She also enabled Iris to identify a
to watch my attraction because, I observed that she has many pattern in her relationship of
mean, it‘s a Moon in Aries and friends who are Aries by the attraction to strong
it‘s considered a little rough but Sun sign, and that she is women and a need to be
it‘s actually very sensitive and very attracted to them. She careful around them due to
Sun in Aries is not Moon in views Sun and Moon her own sensitivity.
Aries. So I have to be careful placement in Aries as
because sometimes I can get hurt. manifesting different
But—can you hold on just a experiences, her Moon
second? being very sensitive, and not
as rough as that influence is
traditionally associated with
Aries. She feels that she
needs to be more careful
around Aries friends
because she may get hurt
due to her sensitivity and
their roughness.
(I: So you were telling me about
your Moon in Aries and how that
207
experience is for you.)

11. Yeah, so anyway, but that Iris observed that she did Iris‘ understanding of the
also lets me know that, you know, not have many female Moon symbolism in her
I‘ve felt sad at times because I friendships, a consideration chart helped her to be more
don‘t have many female about which, at times, she accepting of the difficulty
friendships. But what I have felt sad. Through her she has in forming
noticed, and I come to understand knowledge of astrology, Iris relationship with women
this through astrology is, you understood that, because unless they have strong
know, my Venus is in Mars ruled both her Venus and the masculine qualities.
sign and Moon is also in a Mars Moon are placed in Mars
ruled sign, so I think now that I ruled signs, she is most
know this I am attracted to very attracted to very strong
strong women. And so I just women and tends to form
make sure that I‘m not beating up fewer friendships as a result.
on myself unnecessarily, I know She is now more accepting
that I have this idea. I also— of herself because of this
what‘s another way in which I realization, as she used to
use it? blame herself for being
unable to form more female
friendships.
(I: You can tell me for example
about the particular parts of your
horoscope which fascinate you,
or which you sort of understood
and it helps you to understand
yourself. Like you were telling me
an example about the Moon right
now, you can talk about your Sun.
Or anything in your horoscope
that you got a sense for. )
12. Exploring the relationship Iris used astrology to better Iris‘s reflection on the
between introversion and understand her tendencies astrological meaning of her
extroversion lately, I have just— towards chart helped her to gain an
let‘s see, Moon, Jupiter, Saturn in introversion/extroversion. understanding that she has a
north nodes above the horizon. Iris has some extroverted need to balance her inward-
Everything else is below the tendencies which she focused nature and
horizon and I have these strongly associates with having many extroverted tendencies.
introverted tendencies—I mean, planets in Fire, and at the
two of the planets that are above same time she feels her
the horizon are in the 12th house nature is inward-focused,
so—and my south node is in due to having many planets
Pisces so I have these strongly below the horizon. Iris has
introverted tendencies and at the her Moon, Jupiter, Saturn,
same time, I have, I think, 6 and North Node above the
planets in fire signs. So it‘s horizon, but two of those
interesting, I think there‘s a desire planets are in the 12th,
208
to be extroverted and some which is traditionally

extroverted tendencies, but they considered introverted and
have to be balanced with this hidden. Iris concludes that
really inward-focused nature. she needs to balance her
extroverted desires with her
inward-focused nature.
13. So I keep looking at those Iris experiences doubts Iris is ambivalent about
things trying to understand about pursuing more pursuing more astrological
myself and I‘m not sure right now astrological knowledge, and knowledge, due to the fear
whether astrology helps me she wonders if it really that it may lead to purely
understand myself, or I get stuck helps her to understand intellectual understanding
in this symbolic mediation of herself. She is afraid that that is detached from her
things that I could know directly astrological knowledge may physical experiences in the
in my body and experience. So lead her to mere moment.
that‘s also kind of where my intellectualization of her
ambivalence about studying more experience rather than
deeply has come in because I paying greater attention to
think, Oh, well the last thing I her physical experience, as
need is to be more separate from she acknowledges she needs
my physical experience. to do.
(I: If we were to go to your
experience, can you identify a
particular experience, for
example; do you have an
experience what it’s like to have a
Moon in Aries. Not the concept
but the experience. )
14. I want to do things. Iris views her Moon in To Iris the Moon in Aries in
Absolutely I want to do things. I Aries as symbolic of the her horoscope symbolizes
hear about something and then I desire to do things, and of her active nature and the
want to do it. I have a lot of excitement and abundant abundant energy she
energy around doing that thing. energy around those desires. accesses in pursuing her
Now I may not be so easy to keep Iris gets to do things she interests. She notices that
up with it, unless my partners are finds interesting. However, she needs a relational
also into it and we can make it she may not follow through context to keep her interest
something that‘s meaningful on with those activities unless going, a tendency that she
an ongoing level in terms of her partners are also attributes to the 7th house
partnerships and I think that‘s the interested in the activity and placement of her Moon.
7th house aspect. But yeah, I it is supported through the
mean, I get excited about things. partnership and that mutual
interest. That subsequent
behavior she attributes to
her 7th house aspect, the
aspect traditionally
associated with one‘s
partnerships and partners.
209
(I: Are there any events or

situations in which you
experienced the Moon in Aries?
You gave me some examples,
actually it’s already a second
example right? You gave me some
before. But are there any
situations in which you
experience a Moon in Ares?)
15. The Moon was in Aries a few A few days prior to the Iris was dissatisfied in a
days ago, and I was struggling interview the transiting relationship but was passive
with a situation in which I go Moon was in Aries. At that about leaving it. During the
back and forth between being time Iris was struggling Moon in Aries transit, Iris
passive and not wanting to be in it between being passive about had a strong impulse to
at all. It‘s the end of a her dissatisfaction in a speak what she was feeling
relationship. And when the Moon relationship, and not in the moment, even if it did
was in Aries I could feel this very wanting to be in it at all. not reflect her deeper
strong impulse to say something During the Moon in Aries feelings.
that was how I was feeling at that transit, Iris felt a strong
moment that didn‘t necessarily impulse to say what she was
reflect how I was feeling feeling in the moment,
underneath? although it did not
necessarily reflect her
deeper feelings.
(I: Okay. What about some other
planetary expressions, for
example, your Sun. How do you
experience that? )
16. It‘s hard to say, you know, I Iris had difficulty describing Iris does not have an
have a Sun-Neptune conjunction. how she understands or understanding of some of
(I: Mm hm. So what’s that like?) experiences her Sun. She the symbolism in her chart.
And yeah, I don‘t know. It‘s hard attributes this difficulty to a
to say. natal Sun-Neptune
conjunction. Neptune is
traditionally associated with
confusion and lack of
clarity.
(I: Okay. Maybe there are some
other—maybe there are transits—
are there anything like in
astrology right now that you use
to make sense out of your life
experience? )
17. Well, right now Jupiter is in Iris has Jupiter transiting her Iris finds meaningful
my 6th house and I just found a 6th house, a house associations between her
wonderful acupuncturist and a traditionally associated with experiences and the
210
very old Chinese medical doctor illness and health issues. astrological transits that
who says he‘s going to cure me of During this present time occur in relation to her
some problems that I have from a around the interview, she chart. During the transit of
long time ago. And one of them is found an acupuncturist who Jupiter to Iris‘s 6th house of
liver, and you know Sagittarians she considers trustworthy, illness, she is dealing with
typically have problems with the and a very old Chinese the old health issues and
liver, or they need to be careful of medical doctor who is needing to detoxify her
their liver and with Sun treating Iris for some old liver. Iris considers her liver
Neptune‘s conjunction and some problems. One of the problem typical for a
other factors in the chart, I know problems is liver. Iris linked Sagittarius and intoxication
that I‘m supposed to be very this problem to having a as symbolically represented
attentive to my intoxicants and Sagittarius Sun and having by her natal Sun-Neptune
not overdo it. the Sun- Neptune conjunction.
conjunction. She attributed
problems with liver to
Sagittarius, although
traditionally it is associated
with thighs. She also
attributed the need to be
careful with intoxicating
substances to the Sun-
Neptune conjunction. In
traditional astrology,
Neptune is associated with
drugs and intoxication in
general.
18. Well, anyway for the last Iris linked her issues with Iris finds reaffirmation and
week or 2 weeks—well, the week the liver to having her Sun a deeper understanding of
or 2 weeks leading up to in Sagittarius, although her health issues in the
Valentine‘s day I briefly dated, traditionally Sagittarius is symbolic meaning of her
when I was coming out of my associated with thighs and chart, which discovery
long term relationship, a man hips. Jupiter, the ruler of reinforces her commitment
who was an alcoholic and I drank Sagittarius, is, however, to taking care of her health.
with him and it was very associated with the liver.
destructive for me. I absolutely She attributed the need to be
could not do it. And my extra careful with
acupuncturist can see it intoxicating substances to
immediately, he said, Look you her Sun-Neptune connection
can‘t drink. And so I think, Oh, and the 12th house
okay, well I know this actually influences. She was
from my chart, not only because I reminded of these issues
have to be—because you know, when she drank with a
your liver can‘t handle it. And so, person she briefly dated and
Okay, well then there‘s your that behavior had had a very
Sagittarian influence. But in other destructive influence on her
ways I know the Neptune body.
211
connection and also the 12th

house influence that I really have
to be careful with these
substances.
(I: Okay let’s see. If you were to
pick up aspect from [busy
signal/dial tone] Hello?)
Oh, I remember. I was telling you The interview continued
about my health. after an interruption on the
(I: Yes. Health and the Jupiter phone line.
transit.)
19. Yeah. And I‘m thinking, All Iris continued discussing her During the transit to her 6th
right, so I found this great doctor, health concerns, and gave house, Iris had the
I‘m really hoping that something an example of how she experience of finding a
happens, because—and I wonder, worries about her health, but good doctor she trusts and
you know, because of astrology. the new doctor tells her to who believes he can cure
He looks at me, he says, You stop give up worrying and just her, in spite of her worries.
worrying about this, you listen to follow her advice. He feels
me and you take my advice and confident he can cure her,
I‘ll cure you. And I know that this and Iris listens to his advice
man is very, very—he‘s the because he is one of the
favorite of the people in the local known and respected
excellent Chinese medical school doctors in the local Chinese
who I trust. And he learned from medical school and learned
his own grandfather. the craft from his own
grandfather.
20. And here‘s an example of At the same time, Iris is Iris had difficulty believing
where I use astrology in a aware of her North node in that even a well-trained
negative way: I think: Oh, well, I Virgo and South node in doctor could cure her health
have the north node in Virgo, and Pisces in the 6th house problems because she
I have the south node in the 6th placement, a placement that attributes a negative
house, so maybe he can‘t cure she interprets as rendering meaning to her chart
me. Maybe there‘s something her unable to be rid of symbolism with respect to
about my illness that has to health issues because South her health. She doubts that
remain—I‘ll always have Node is traditionally she can be cured of the
problems. You never know— associated with loss and 6th permanent health issues
we‘ll see, you know? That‘s one house with illnesses and because of her chart
way in which I use it negatively. health issues. Even when configuration.
given a promise of cure, she
thinks that her chart foretells
that her illness will have to
remain uncured. And that‘s
how she feels she is using
astrology negatively.
(I: Are there any other ways in
which you use it negatively?)
212
21. Yeah, I think to constrain Iris judges herself for the Iris judges herself for the
myself or to judge myself or be qualities symbolized in her qualities symbolized in her
harsh on myself, and I do. Or I chart that she considers chart that she considers
take the idea of having a chart undesirable or weak. For undesirable or weak. Iris
ruler in detriments and use it to example, she is hard on considers such use of
make myself feel bad. Also the herself because her chart astrology negative.
Moon in a masculine sign, I used ruler is in detriment, with
that to make myself feel bad. And many planets in the 3rd
then all those planets in the 3rd house (which she considers
house—Oh, it‘s weak. I can really weak in accord with
judge myself in a spiritual way astrological theory), or
with those kinds of because her Moon is in a
pronouncements, and so I have to masculine sign. Iris
really—I can say I should be considers these particular
careful around it, but I‘m not uses she makes of astrology
careful around it. I‘m really hard to be negative.
on myself with those things.
(I: So, what about the positive?
How is it positive for you, the use
of astrology? .)
22. Well, it‘s helped me Iris uses astrology to Iris positively uses astrology
understand people understand people to gain better astrological
psychologically. I like that. psychologically. She likes understanding of people.
Sometimes it‘s [laughs]— that aspect of astrology. She She sometimes sees a literal
sometimes it‘s so literal, you finds that sometimes she representation of a certain
know. I don‘t want it to be that gets very literal psychological pattern in
literal, because, you know, I like interpretations from the astrological analysis but
understanding things more charts, although she prefers usually looks for a more in-
deeply. But I was just looking at a more in-depth discoveries. depth insight.
chart of someone that I was She gave an example that an
talking to online recently, so I acquaintance she met online
was sort of fascinated by it for shared with her a particular
some strange reason. And I sexual fantasy and that she
started looking at his chart and I later saw it literally
find out that he has [laughs]—he represented in his horoscope
has a very particular sexual symbolism. She lost interest
fantasy, which he tells me about in this contact because, as
and it‘s right there in his chart, I she joked, it was so obvious
mean, in such a literal way. I and boring.
actually stopped talking to him
after he told me that, because I
was, like, Blah, that‘s so boring. I
mean, there‘s no depth here. [both
laugh] It wasn‘t even hard to
figure out.
23. So [laughs]—but other ways Iris also trusts that she will Iris uses astrology positively
213
in which I use it positively… You have good friends, and she when she is reflecting on
know, I trust that I‘ll have good attributes that trust to her her chart‘s symbolism and
friends, that I‘ll find friends—I discovery that she has either reaffirms her own
have a Jupiter in the 11th house, Jupiter in the 11th house. positive qualities or
and my friends always come Jupiter is considered a anticipates being fortunate
through for me when I‘m in fortunate planet in in particular areas of life.
trouble in just the right way, and I astrological theory, and the
really appreciate that. And I know 11th house is associated
that I have a lot of depth as a with friends and friendships.
person from my chart, and I can Iris has had positive
appreciate that. And I know that experiences with her friends
I‘m very sensitive and caring. coming through for her
And things like this. when she was in need or in
trouble. Through her
knowledge of her own chart,
Iris also receives
reaffirmation that she is a
deep, sensitive, and caring
individual.
(I: So, in other words, when it
sort of reaffirms your good
qualities, right—or the good
things in your life, then it feels
positive. But if it points out
there’s something negative, then
you might feel sort of burdened
by it, or, I don’t know, like
influenced by it. Do I understand
correctly?)
24. Well, look—see, I have Iris understands that her Iris worries that her
Saturn square in my planets in the tendency to think negatively tendency to think negatively
3rd house, and it‘s squaring them and critically about herself about herself and be
from the 12th house. It‘s and be susceptible to the susceptible to the negative
particularly astrology that has this negative information information makes her use
power to make me feel bad about represented by a system of of astrology potentially
myself. Does that make sense? thought such as astrology in unhealthy for her because
(I: Yes, it makes sense.) a powerful way is because its supports her tendency
So, from the 12th house, this of her natal square of Saturn toward self-doubt. She
transpersonal influence can in Virgo in the 12th house to attributes that tendency to a
influence my thoughts, all of the her Sun, Mercury, and Mars particular astrological
3rd house planets, in a negative in the 3rd house. She views symbolism in her chart.
way, and my self-concept, the having Saturn in Virgo as
Sun. You know, and the way that critical and challenging to
I think about them, Mercury, and her self- concept as
the way I feel about my body and symbolized by the Sun,
the way I am in the world, Mars. thoughts as symbolized by
214
And I‘m very sensitive to those Mercury, and ways of acting

things, Neptune. And Saturn is in in the world as symbolized
Virgo, you know, in the 12th. by Mars.
Very critical. So, yeah, I mean, I
understand that it‘s partly because
of this astrology stuff, but—yeah.
(I: Mm hm. But do you use
astrology to understand
something in your relationships?
In your primary romantic
relationship, or close
friendships?)
25. In primary romantic Iris uses astrology to Iris uses astrology to
relationships—yeah. Last long understand psychological understand psychological
term relationship I was in we had dynamics in her personal dynamics in her personal
in the composite chart Mercury- relationships. In her last and romantic relationships.
Saturn square and that ended up long-term relationship she Iris uses astrological
being the reason everything and her partner had symbols to identify the
ended, actually. That was Mercury-Saturn square in patterns and dynamics in
interesting. their composite chart, and her intimate relationships
(I: Mercury Saturn squared?) she felt that was indicative and to account for their
Yeah. of the problems that led to development.
(I: So how did you experience the break up. She
that in your relationship with experienced this aspect as
him?) an inability to understand
In conversations, we‘d actually each other in conversations.
just come to dead ends. We were Both partners were reaching
completely non-understanding of dead ends in their
each other, not compassionate, conversation that never
quite cold. And that was resolved and neither was
bidirectional. compassionate or warm
toward the other.
(I: Is that the last relationship
that you had?)
Yeah, with my boyfriend.
(I: What about your other
relationships—friends or
parents—some close
relationship? Did you use
astrology in any way to kind of
get to an understanding of that—
better understanding?)
26. I tried sometimes, but I also Iris is more cautious of Iris uses astrology less for
don‘t like to be too intrusive. I using astrology in her other understanding relationships
know, for example, that my relationship for fear of being which are not intimate for
brother has Venus in the 3rd intrusive. She thought, for the fear of being intrusive.
215
house, so I think that could be— example, that her brother‘s She does not feel she has
actually, I mean, it sounds like a Venus in the 3rd house the right to influence others
very sweet thing, you know, that could be expected to based on her astrological
there would be a lot of love indicate a lot of love understanding
between us, but actually I think between him and her, as the
that‘s the reason that we‘re not 3rd house represents
very close. Because maybe, as a siblings in traditional
child, he felt that he got more astrology, and Venus is a
love from our parents. So, I know planet of love. In reality, she
I need to understand that, and at observes that she is not very
the same time, it‘s not my place close with her brother which
to work on his psyche, so I have she guesses may be related
to be careful. With my parents, I to his perception of being
don‘t have their time of birth, the more loved child of the
so— two of them. Iris, however,
does not feel it is her place
to work on him or point out
how he could use differently
the energy symbolized by
Venus in his 3rd house.
(I: I’m most interested in how
you experience it, and how this
astrology helped you or maybe
didn’t help you—how astrology
informed your relationship
basically, or maybe it didn’t.)
27. Makes me think a lot, and Iris was not sure what this Iris‘s knowledge of
then I don‘t know what you‘re researcher was looking for astrology does not greatly
looking for here. I know, for when asked how astrology inform her relationship with
example, that Mars is on the cusp informs her relationships others but she finds some of
of my 4th house. And I indeed am with others. Iris gave an her psychological dynamics
attracted to men who are a lot like example of her attraction to represented in her chart.
my father. Now this is a little men who are similar to her
troublesome as a psychologist, father, which attraction she
you know—[laughs] you want to sees as symbolized by her
attach all sorts of meaning to natal Mars on the cusp of
these things. But, yeah. her 4th house. The 4th
house is associated with
one‘s roots and father, in
astrological theory. As a
psychologist, Iris sees her
attraction to men similar to
her father as significant and
she confirms this
observation with the
symbolic aspects of her
216
horoscope.
(I: Well, you might not use it. I
was referring more to the
relationship and understanding of
relationship. But maybe you don’t
use it that way. It’s not that I’m
looking for a particular answer.
I’m interested in your experience
of astrological symbols in any
regard, whether the way you
understand yourself or the way
you understand your relationship
or your world. Is there anything
in your chart you want to
understand a little bit more? )
28. I can‘t remember who said it Iris finds it hopeful that Iris finds positive
once, but maybe it was Rick some modern astrologers, astrological interpretations
Tarnas. He said that any contact (possibly Rick Tarnas), for of what is traditionally
between planets has the example, consider stressful considered difficult hopeful
possibility of having the energy aspects between the planets and encouraging. It helps
of the trine; you just have to make in a natal chart as having the her stop self-criticism and
it get there. So that‘s kind of potential of being worked instead look for the new
interesting to me. I‘d like to out into a more harmonious ways of changing difficult
figure that out. I‘d also— aspect, such as trine. She is dynamics into the more
(I: Can you repeat this, because attracted to this idea because harmonious ones.
I’m not sure I fully understood. it helps her not to be hard on
Can you say that again? ) herself for having
He‘s trying to make people stop challenging aspects but
being so down on themselves rather to look for ways of
when they have difficult angles changing difficult
between planets, and— relationships into
(I: I see.) harmonious ones.
29. He says, You know, look, if Iris is intrigued by the The idea that challenging
you have a square [phone modern astrological idea inner dynamics represented
breaking up] and that‘s the most that one can experience a by difficult astrological
important part. And if you work challenging aspect as a aspects can be transformed
on it long enough, then you can harmonious one. She into the harmonious ones
basically experience any of those wonders how that works, with enough work on Iris‘s
aspects including the trine. So, and if it is true. She part is intriguing and
say, Hm, how does that work understands that some work hopeful for her.
exactly? Is that true? I want to is required in order to
know. experience a square aspect
(I: In other words, if you have a as a trine, for example.
square in your chart, you might
still experience it as a trine? Am I
understanding correctly?)
217
With enough work, yes.

(I: Right, I understand. Of course,
of course.)
But requires some work.
30. (I: Right, not by magic, but by Iris explored the meaning of Iris gets a deeper insight
your effort. So, would you like to Saturn Mercury square in into her dynamic of
have an experiment? Let’s pick her chart. She experiences it seriousness countered by the
up a particular square in your as seriousness, carefulness desire to speak on impulse
chart and we work with it a little and reserve in speaking when she reflects on the
bit and then we’ll see how you connected with her need to meaning of Saturn-Mercury
can transition it to become a be correct, which at the square in her chart.
trine. Would you like to do that, same time conflicts with her
or no?) desire to communicate
Sure. freely and spontaneously.
(I: To pick up a particular aspect Iris resists the perceived
which intrigues you, right, or restriction and sometimes
makes it interesting.) rebels against it by wanting
Okay. to speak impulsively the
(I: Which one?) first thing that comes to her
How about Saturn square mind.
Mercury.
(I: Okay, so what’s your
experience of that aspect?)
Think I‘m pretty serious.
(I: Mm hm. Anything else?)
And I can often keep myself from
saying things.
(I: Anything else?)
I‘m very careful about what I do
say. Want it to be correct.
(I: Anything else?)
Sometimes I get irritable and
rebellious in my expression. So,
the opposite of what I‘ve just
been saying. I want to say the
first thing that comes to mind,
because I feel so weighed down.
(I: Mm hm. So, if you were to Iris acts out her internal Iris explored her internal
speak from the place of Saturn— sense for Saturn in her chart expectations of depth,
let’s imagine that you are by saying that she is competence and seriousness
Saturn—what the Saturn would shallow, and does not know as she sees symbolized by
say in that aspect, right—in your what she is doing, and that Saturn in Virgo.
chart.) she is making a mess.
31. Saturn would say you‘re
shallow, you don‘t know what
you‘re doing. You‘re making a
218
mess, you‘re not to be taken

seriously. Stop getting in my way.
(I: Keep going, until he has
nothing more to say. [little
laugh])
32. Saturn doesn‘t feel like it Iris views Saturn as silent, Iris experiences Saturn as
needs to say things. This is the and not expressive, but silent and shutting Mercury
thing. I mean, Saturn just sort of Mercury as the expressive down in his expression
sits there and frowns a little bit, planet that reflectively gives when she explores their
and not even a whole lot, you voice to Saturn. Saturn in a challenging square aspect in
know. He doesn‘t have to be very square aspect to Mercury is her chart.
expressive. It‘s Mercury‘s job to shutting Mercury down, in
do the expressing. And Saturn Iris‘s exploration.
just has to make [a bit?] of a
negative state and shut the whole
thing down. So, it‘s not in
Saturn‘s nature to really seek. I
guess Mercury sort of reflects
reflectively gives voice to him,
but—
(I: What would Mercury say in
response to what Saturn was just
saying—or in response to
Saturn’s behavior?)
33. I‘m here, and I also have When invited to explore Reflection on the
messages, I have things to say. Mercury, she speaks about symbolism of Mercury in
And I need to make some the need to communicate her chart gives Iris a better
movement, I need to deliver these and deliver messages but of sense of her inner dynamics.
messages and you‘re freezing feeling frozen by Saturn.
things up. You‘re making them Iris stresses the positive
cold, you‘re making them hard, influence of Saturn to
and no one can—and there will provide structures but also
be no progress if you sit there and feels a need to allow
keep making those faces. Now, I movement, communication,
know you need to do what you and ideas to come to life.
need to do to provide structure for
all of us and we really appreciate
that, and that‘s very important.
And you can let go a little bit.
You don‘t have to—it‘s hard for
anything to happen in that
structure if you keep emphasizing
structure all the time. It‘s a
container for some things, and
you need to let that something
come to life.
219
(I: So now, imagine that you just

step away from this conversation,
right? You kind of listened to it
from the side. Do you notice
anything? What do you notice,
rather? What do you notice when
you look or hear it as a witness,
as an observer?)
34. I think those guys are going to Iris jokes about the dynamic
have to go to therapy, if they of her Saturn Mercury
want to continue this relationship. square that it requires
[both laugh] therapy in order for this
relationship to continue.
(I: That’s funny. So, from the
point of view of an observer, what
can you do, or what advice maybe
you can give to these two
partners, Saturn and Mercury,
right? How can they make it like
a workable relationship? Like a
trine relationship—like a flowing
relationship? )
35. I think some common sense Iris thought that a common Iris finds a proposed
would help. Some sense that ground, a sense of the solution that would allow
connects their divergent similarity would help her her to balance out internal
perspectives, rather than inner dynamics symbolized challenges in expressing her
grounding them more solidly in by Saturn and Mercury, to thoughts represented by her
their own ways of seeing things. have a better relationship. Saturn-Mercury square.
(I: Anything else?) The common ground or a
36. No, not really. I mean, the sense of friendship or
reason I say friends is that they unconditional love could
need to be grounded in a way that provide the bond and soften
they can understand each other, their relationships.
and it needs to happen—there
needs to be ongoing contact, and
it needs to be softened a bit with
the bond that friendship or
unconditional love can provide,
and there needs to be a little bit of
stretching, it shouldn‘t feel quiet
all the time.
37. And that‘s why I say a friend, Iris views friendship as a Iris created a metaphor to
you know, because a friend necessary help to working illustrate how her
provides all of those things. And out a challenging challenging inner dynamic
it‘s not so formal. It‘s just love, relationship, because represented by Saturn-
you know? So, you know, therapy friendships are based on Mercury square may work
220
is a short thing and they can be— love and not formal. Iris out. She compared this to a
one person can be more compares this imagined couple‘s therapy, where a
committed to the process than the process with a couples‘ feeling of love, of
other and you don‘t have to be therapy, wherein one person friendship, may help the two
honest, so that can be hard. And may be more committed to to communicate better and
there‘s not, you know, a bunch of the process than the other is, without being threatened by
other observers who say, Hey, or may be not entirely the other.
this is what we feel is going on. honest, and therapy,
So, I mean, cotherapy would be a therefore, may not progress.
different thing. And then they In friendships she feels both
would need to be able, with that parties may continue
support that they get from their conversation between
friends, or of these other themselves while knowing
observers to continue having this that their intrinsic being is
conversation amongst themselves, not threatened by this
while knowing that their intrinsic relationship.
being is not threatened by their
relationship and by each other.
(I: So, how Iris can experience
this sort of challenging
relationship—this challenging
element, psychological quality—
how can you experience it as
harmonious? How could it be
experienced as a positive and
good relationship? In other
words, how to convert the square
to a trine?)
[pause]
(I: Hello?)
I‘m thinking.
(I: You’re thinking. [laughs])
38. It‘s more . . . conversation and Iris considers that in order Iris explored how a
patience. And . . . valuing that for a challenging dynamic to challenging dynamic
activity. I think one thing that become a harmonious, there represented by two planets
happens with the square is that is need for more in a square aspect may be
there is a lot of energy, but it conversation between two worked out into a more
doesn‘t necessarily find different elements of that harmonious one with the
expression. It sort of gets caught dynamic and more patience. help of other planets that
up and it‘s hard for them to work She felt that a challenging represent other psychic
together. So there will need to dynamic is represented in forces in her chart and are
be—I think there really has to be the presence of a lot of interdependent with one
some support from the other energy that does not another.
planets. And there are other necessarily find an
planets, right? I mean, there are expression. Iris viewed
lots of [points?] in the chart, and other planets in her chart as
221
they‘re not acting independently. interconnected symbols that

And so, you know, and they‘re might be helpful in this
not disinterested observers either process of working a
and they have some relationships. stressful aspect into a more
So they need to—their harmonious one.
involvement is important, too.
(I: Mm hm. Okay. So, I think
that’s good. I want to shift gears
a little bit and come back to your
chart and the use of astrology.
So, can you think about your life
and any experience that you
interpreted with the use of
astrology? In particular I’m
interested in more stressful
experiences, but it doesn’t have to
be. It can be a positive
experience, too.)
More subtle experiences?
(I: Stressful—with a stress or
difficulty for you. And if you used
astrology to understand those
experiences?)
39. Oh, well, you know, when Iris chose an example of a Iris chose a stressful time in
Pluto crossed my Sun and stressful experience in her her life which she later
Neptune, I went into a mental life which she later understood better with her
hospital. And that‘s not all that understood more with astrological knowledge.
happened, really. There had been astrology. When Pluto When Pluto transited Iris‘s
so much stress building for a transited her natal Sun and natal Sun and Neptune she
really long time. And I was in a Neptune, Iris went into a was committed to a mental
relationship that I couldn‘t get out mental hospital. This was hospital, which was a
of and I was also very depressed, her external experience but culmination to the built-up
and there was a feeling of total she also felt there had been stress and Iris‘s inability to
misunderstanding, and I was very a lot of stress building up resolve it.
addicted to some drugs that I was for a long time. She was in a
getting, actually, from the relationship that she could
psychiatrist, along with some not leave, and she felt
other things. depressed and
misunderstood. She was
addicted to some drugs her
psychiatrist was prescribing,
and other challenging things
were going on in her life.
40. So, those things needed to Iris realizes now that things Iris realized that there had to
change, and I had no way of needed to change in her life, be changes in her life, but
doing it consciously, because I but she had no capacity to she could not make changes
222
went to school in the time when do it consciously because happen due to a lack of
postmodern interpretations were she did not have direction from her
absent, and so basically there understanding or a sense of environment at the time.
was—and I had some fairly poor direction. She was spending Her studies in school were
teachers, or maybe that was just a lot of her time in school, not providing any
that small period of time in life but could not find philosophical ground for her
where people were being taught philosophical ground that to make sense out of her
that there is no meaning—nothing would help her understand experience.
is meaningful and there is no god her experience better, to
and all of this kind of stuff. I find some meaning in it.
mean, it was a very empty sort of The cosmology presented in
cosmology and that just happened school taught that there was
to be when I was spending a lot no meaning to existence,
of time in school. which had felt empty to her
as a life view.
41. So, there was nothing that I Iris could not find any Iris experienced strife when
could turn to for support, and I support and experienced an she wanted to make changes
knew I needed to get out, so I extreme state when she felt in her life but did not know
think my mind created this she needed to get out of the how to do it. She was
extreme state, and I went through life she was leading but did committed to a mental
what I now call a spiritual not know how to do it. As a hospital and put on heavy
emergence, and went into rehab result, she was committed to drugs, an experience that
and I was completely in the [3] a mental hospital and put on affected her ability to speak
there and given heavy drugs and heavy drugs, which was a for a while. Iris now sees
tests in a mental hospital, and I difficult and dark period in this experience as a result of
couldn‘t speak after that in her life. She had lost her the Pluto transit through her
complete sentences for a couple capacity to speak in chart breaking up
of years. So, that‘s Pluto. And it complete sentences for a everything in her life.
was breaking everything up. couple of years, as a side
effect of drugs. She
attributed her difficult
experience to the symbolism
of Pluto breaking everything
in her life.
42. For me to lose the capacity Iris had been devastated by Iris attributed breaking
for language, which was losing her capacity to speak down some aspects of her
something with which I had well, a quality with which life to the Pluto transit. She
identified myself completely for she completely identified temporarily lost her ability
most of my life, as being a fluent herself. But she also to communicate fluently,
speaker, was devastating. But I recognized that some losses which was devastating
don‘t know, on the other hand, I were positive for her, such because Iris completely
also lost my addiction, I started as her loss of addiction to identified herself with that
on a path that brought me to the drugs. She started a new ability. Iris also lost her
psychology, because at that time I path that led her to addiction to medical drugs
still was planning to go to law psychology and away from and began her exploration
school and I actually did do that. law school, which she was of psychology at that time.
223
But—so, I‘m very sympathetic attending at the time.

with people‘s Pluto transits now. Having gone through this
(I: So what Pluto transit? It was difficult experience that she
crossing your—?) connected with Pluto transit
Crossed my Sun and Neptune. makes her sympathetic of
(I: Oh, I see—Sun-Neptune. other people with similar
Conjunct. Okay. In the 3rd transits occurring.
house—I see.)
and my south node.
43. (I: Okay, so did you know Iris did not know or use Iris did not know astrology
astrology at the time, or not yet?) astrology at the difficult during the stressful time she
No, I didn‘t know at that time. time she described. described.
(I: So when did you understand
that in this light? It’s probably at
a later time, right? When this
understanding came?)
44. Almost immediately [laughs] Iris started to make sense When Iris started learning
when I started studying astrology, out of her stressful astrology and, in particular,
you know, and I started learning experience when she started about transits of the planets,
about transits, I thought, Oh, my learning astrology and about she was amazed how
god! [laughing] You know? transits of the planets. She accurately it described her
That‘s what happened! Holy was in awe regarding how difficult experiences, and
crap! much correlation and that discovery helped her to
meaning she got from understand them better.
descriptions of the transits
and her actual experience.
(I: Were you particularly
interested in understanding that
experience? Or just in general it
connected to you—what you
learned and the experience)
45. Well, you see, that difficult Iris was not able to make Iris could not make sense
thing that happened was so sense out of her difficult out of her difficult
difficult that I wasn‘t able to experience when she was in experience because she did
focus on it then. Like, I was it. She feels that she did not not have a belief structure or
saying, in order to focus on things have enough support, such a support system that would
like that, you need something as a belief system or people help her find meaning in it.
supporting in your atmosphere. around her that would help
You need some belief structure her see this experience as
that supports you, you need meaningful.
people around you that support
you, you need to have some
concept that things are
meaningful.
46. And, again, when I started Iris started studying Iris started studying
studying astrology, I had a very astrology at the time she astrology while she was still
224
bad doctor who thought the only was still seeing a seeing a psychiatrist who
meaning in life was to be found psychiatrist who did not had a materialistic approach
through chemicals and that we‘re believe in anything but to life and could not provide
all a bag of chemicals. And when chemical treatment of Iris with the support or a
I told him I was interested in human problems, because system that would help
astrology, he asked me, actually, he saw humans as a bag of make sense out of her
Why are you telling me this? Do chemicals. Iris felt that her difficult experiences.
you want me to judge you? psychiatrist was not well
Because I don‘t believe it. So— trained as a therapist
and that‘s sort of stupid for a because he judged her
therapist to say, you know? But negatively for her interest in
obviously he‘s not trained. astrology.
47. So, I didn‘t immediately start Iris continued with her study Iris was drawn to astrology
studying my Pluto transit, but it of astrology, although she for its framework that
drew me closer to astrology—that did not learn about the Pluto allowed her to find meaning
here was this language that transit right away. She was in the most difficult
suggested there is more to life drawn to the language and a experiences and to get
than meets the sort of base framework of astrology rewards by understanding
materialistic eye, and it has a way because it suggested that them; it was a different
of assigning meaning to the most there is more to life than a perspective than the one she
devastating thing that‘s happened materialistic philosophy had been exposed to up until
in my life. And it promises to be could explain. Iris was then.
rewarding in the future for interested in how astrology
understanding more things. has a way to assign meaning
even to the devastating
experiences, and by the idea
that in the future she could
find rewards in
understanding these
difficulties.
(I: So how do you use astrology
to—what do you think the
connection is for you between
astrology and finding meaning,
you know, in the global sense, in
your life in general? )
48. Well, it‘s a good question. Iris views planets named for Iris views planets as
You know, the planets are very the gods and goddesses as archetypes that represent
conveniently named for the gods representing patterns of patterns of energy
and goddesses. So, it‘s very clear energy that are meaningful meaningful to large groups
that they have relationships to in groups of people over of people over long periods
sort of patterns of energy that are long periods of time. She of time. The influence of
meaningful or significant in feels that such patterns or such archetypes is broad,
groups of people over long archetypes have has many layers, and cannot
periods of time. And, you know, transpersonal meaning—a be fully understood, but
when you have that kind of broader influence on people people are always drawn to
225
pattern, you can call it an than one can understand, but pursue a greater
archetype—something that is that people are always understanding of it.
transpersonal that is influential in trying to understand them.
more ways than we can
understand, but we‘re always
drawn to try to understand them.
49. So I find it quite elegant for Iris finds astrological Iris uses astrological
talking about—for examining archetypes elegant and archetypes to understand her
archetypal influences in the charts useful for examining client‘s behavior and to
of clients, for example, for archetypal influences in her understand social changes.
understanding what might be clients‘ charts, or in social She follows transits of
happening with social groups, groups. Following Saturn and the tran-
because of the influence of, you traditional astrology, Iris Saturnian planets—Uranus,
know, Saturn and the trans- uses transits of Saturn and Neptune, and Pluto—for
Saturnian [1] the transpersonal tran-Saturnian planets— that.
planets—for understanding how Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto
individuals might be affected by to understand changes in
these large movements in society society and how they affect
and vice versa. individuals and vice versa.
(I: Do you use astrology to
understand what is going on in
the society on a more global
level?)
50. [pause] I try. I just don‘t Iris tries to understand Iris tries to use astrology to
know if I‘ve been alive long global social changes understand global and
enough to quite understand through the lens of societal changes, but,
everything that‘s happening. And astrology, although she does because of her young age,
there are always so many . . . you not feel that she has lived does not feel she has full
know, my understanding is long enough to understand understanding of what is
something changes over a few everything that is happening. She remains
years, so my understanding of happening. She is also not open about meanings she
what a certain astrological aspect fixed on the particular finds through astrology, as
means will also change. I try. But astrological interpretations her knowledge grows and
I also don‘t want to assign it a she comes to because her her understanding of
fixed meaning—you know, understanding of astrology particular situations and
making a judgment and saying ‗ evolves. She remains events evolves, as well. Iris
―that‘s it.‖ And I know that I can curious but not fixed on a prefers not to attach fixed
tend to do that. I‘m curious, but I particular meaning. meanings to phenomena
don‘t— through astrology.
(I: You don’t necessarily do it.)
I don‘t fix on it.
(I: Okay. So I think we’ve covered
quite a bit of different territories.
Is there any other example or
anything that you would like to
share, connected to how you
226
make meaning—maybe what the

connection to meaning making in
general in astrology for you.
Anything that we didn’t cover?)
51. You know, it‘s interesting, Iris gave an example of how Iris studies the correlations
there‘s this website—I think it‘s meaning is made with between the astrological
called Anyana astrology.com or astrology. She visits a web aspects in the chart of
something, and it has quotes from site that lists astrological famous intellectuals and
different things people who area aspects in the charts of writers and their sayings.
intellectuals or writers—or people famous intellectuals and Iris finds these
whose thoughts are known writers together with their juxtapositions of
generally, and it will provide quotes, in attempt to astrological influences and
quotes from these people along illustrate how astrological pronouncements by well-
with certain aspects that they aspect may express. Iris known figures interesting
have in their chart—that you can finds this interesting for a for distinguishing between
see sometimes, you know, like, psychologist, such as perception and projections,
oh, well, this is this aspect herself, to distinguish and she considers that,
speaking—they‘re trying to between perception and interwoven into the
illustrate this aspect. And it‘s projection, and to attempt to biological mechanism of
interesting, you know, because as determine how much perception, at a ratio of 50%
psychologists we are interested in perception is projection. She of our understandings, are
this relationship between feels that about 50% of the projections through
perception and projection and projection is interwoven which we perceive our
trying to work out how much of into the biological experiences. In other words,
our perception is projection, and mechanism of perception; in people tend to see what they
it seems like it‘s about 50%, and other words, she feels that believe to be there.
it‘s interwoven into the biological we are seeing what we
mechanism of perception that we believe to be there.
are seeing what we believe to be
there.
52. And so I know, for example, Iris connected her own Iris has interest in
that I have Moon in the 7th or 8th interest and engagement in attachment-oriented
house, and I‘m very much attachment-oriented psychotherapy and she
interested in attachment-oriented psychotherapy to the reaffirms that it is especially
psychotherapy—interpersonal symbolic meaning of her attractive to her because of
[3]. And so I think, well, you natal Moon placed at the her own unfulfilled needs
know, I know that is what works end of the 7th house, on the for attachment as
for me. It was what I was seeking cusp of the 8th. In represented by the Moon in
for so many years. It was what traditional astrology, the 7th her 7th house.
was absent in my culture and house is associated with
absent in my life. But does that partnership and important
mean it‘s necessarily the right relationships, and the 8th
thing for everybody else? You house is sometimes
know, just because it was right associated with intimacy
for me. Because I have this aspect and sexual relationships.
in my chart that suggests this is The moon is traditionally
227
what I was missing, this is what I thought to represent the core

needed. So that‘s interesting. emotional needs. Iris
realized from her own chart
that she is interested in
attachment- oriented
psychotherapy because it
represents her unfulfilled
needs for attachment as
indicated in the aspects in
her chart.
(I: So what do you think—what’s
the answer to this question?)
53. Well, it‘s hard to say—you Iris feels that she has
know, and I console myself, attachments problems and
knowing that there are enough that attachment- oriented
people who are like me and have psychotherapy helps her to
attachment problems that I could deal with them. She views
easily work in that modality and this problem as common to
be of assistance to a lot of people. the culture into she was
It doesn‘t have to be right for born, but does not feel that
everybody. And I also know that this modality, for example,
it was something that was true in is helpful to everyone.
general of the culture into which I
was born.
54. So, you know, I go back and Iris is trying to distinguish Iris does not have a
forth, trying to figure out what‘s what in her chart represents definitive sense about
personal in the chart and what has her personal traits and what herself through astrology,
nothing to do with me. But it‘s has nothing to do with her, she tries to distinguish what
kind of messy, you know? That‘s but she finds this hard to do is personal in her chart from
why it‘s hard for me to say with and the distinctions not what is cultural. She
any definitive sense this is how I obvious. She does not have compares astrology to a
use astrology. I‘m always a definitive way of using back mirror on the car, as
thinking about it, in hopes of astrology, although she astrology helps her to see
gaining more clarity about what is thinks about astrology all something that she
me, what I‘m getting from the the time and attempts to get otherwise cannot see.
culture, what my feeling sense is, more clarity about herself in
and what‘s out there—something using that system‘s thought,
that I can‘t understand yet. It‘s as opposed to the cultural
like, you know, you‘ve got influences that shaped her.
something that‘s behind you and She metaphorically
you need to see it, but you can‘t compares her use of
turn, and you have several small astrology to the holding up
mirrors. And astrology is one of of small mirrors directed at
the mirrors I use to try to see this something behind her and
thing. I don‘t know if that— sees that as a metaphor in
which astrology serves her
228
with such a mirroring.

(I: Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.
Has your use of astrology
changed over the years, or it’s
pretty much the same as when
you started learning it?)
[pause] I used to ask a lot more Iris used to use horary
horary questions. I don‘t do that astrology, which is a
anymore. divinatory branch of
astrology that provides
answers asked in the
moment. Overtime she
stopped using it as much.
(I: Why not?)
55. They lie to me. [both laugh] Iris stopped using horary Iris used to use a predictive
So, um, I think that‘s—it‘s just astrology because she did branch of astrology called
not something I‘m supposed to be not find it to be accurate. horary, but does not do this
doing, and that particular fact has She concluded that she is anymore. She did not find it
also kept me from exploring not meant to use predictive to be accurate, and now
Vedic astrology a little more, astrology as much, and, as a chooses to focus more on
because they both have this sort result, she did not explore psychological astrology that
of predictive quality that makes Vedic astrology further. She primarily provides an
me think, Well you know, maybe is mostly focused on astrological analysis of
I should just concentrate on the psychological aspects of psychological patterns.
psychological aspects and not so astrology and less on
much with trying to know. You predictive branches, in spite
know, I always want to know. of her desire to know the
future.
(I: Okay, so I think we can
probably finish here. Thank you
very, very much for very many
thoughtful examples and sharing
of your life. Let me finish the
recording.)
229
Participant 3: Alex

expressed in coresearcher’s psychological language reductions with relevancy
language: (Interviewer’s with relevancy to the to the experience of
italicized) meaning
(I: Alex, tell me how do you use
astrology in your life? You can
describe some experience when
you used astrology, or you can
just tell me in general how do you
use astrology to understand
something in your life?)
1. Well, I used it in the past, in Alex used astrology to Alex uses astrology to gain
order to understand my understand himself better deeper self-understanding.
personality. I used my birth charts and to learn more about his He identifies and explains
kind of to understand my character tendencies and his internal qualities by
character tendencies or temperament. For instance, reflecting on the meanings
temperament. For instance, one of he associates Saturn in of astrological symbols in
the aspects I have Saturn in Aries Aries and Moon in his chart.
and Moon in Sagittarius. I use it Sagittarius aspect in his
kind of to explain my drive for chart with his drive for
independence and freedom. At independence and freedom.
the same time, there are upsetting He views Neptune in
tendencies, like the Moon rising Scorpio rising in his chart as
in Scorpio. And I‘m sorry—I symbolic of his tendency
meant to say Neptune rising in towards idealism,
Scorpio. It leads toward a daydreaming and
tendency towards idealism, romanticizing that also
daydreaming and also counteracts his active,
romanticizing. And it actually outgoing tendencies.
tends to upset or counteract the
fiery tendencies.
(I: Can you remember any
experience in your life where you
used astrology to understand
something?)
2. Well, at one point I actually At one point in Alex‘s life, Alex used retrospective
used it after an indication by one after an indication by an analysis of the planetary
of the astrologers I remember. I astrologer, Alex used transits in his chart to
used it to explain my drive to astrology to explain his explain and understand his
individuate or kind of mentally drive for individuation and internal psychological
separate from my attachment with mental separation from the experiences at that time. For
mother. And at that time, what attachment with his mother. example when Pluto
230
was happening—again, I did this Alex analyzed this drive in transited over his natal
analysis in retrospect—so I retrospect by looking at the Moon Alex had a strong
looked at the transits. And transits he had at the time he drive to separate from the
because I have a rising sign in felt it. In that time frame, attachment with his mother.
Scorpio, as I mentioned before, around 2001-2002, Alex
just at the time I think it was had transiting Pluto
about 2001/2002 time-frame, I conjunct his natal Moon,
saw that, almost at [that] exact which he considers a very
time I had my transiting Pluto powerful influence because
was directly conjunct to my natal his natal Moon has some
Moon, which is a very powerful challenging aspects.
influence, especially because my
natal Moon has some challenging
aspects.
(I: Tell me more, please, about
both. Tell me about the natal
Moon and how you think about
the Pluto transit.)
3. Yeah, well, so, my Moon— Alex has a T-square
when I talk about my natal Moon, between his natal Moon,
it actually has a T-square to Pluto Pluto and Venus. His Moon
and Venus, meaning that on one in Sagittarius forms a square
side it has a square aspect by to Pluto in Virgo which is a
Pluto, and then on the other side, challenging aspect. On the
because my Moon is in other side of Pluto, Venus in
Sagittarius on one side, its Pisces forms a square to
aspect—in a challenging way Pluto.
forms a square with my Pluto,
which is in Virgo. And then on
the other side it forms a
challenging aspect to my Venus,
which is in Pisces.
(I: how do you experience that,
and how do you understand this?)
4. Well, it‘s a tension, because the Alex understands the Alex gets multiple meanings
Moon symbolizes the mother, and symbolism of the Moon by reflecting on a particular
Pluto is [little laugh] a source of Pluto square in his chart as a aspect in his chart. He finds
tension. It‘s considered tension that he experiences it representative of his
symbolically as a discarding between his drive for internal drives and
mechanism—there‘s kind of a freedom and independence dynamics, and, at the same
drive to—or a struggle, and to and a powerful smothering time, the external
separate myself from my mother, influence by his mother. He relationships he has.
or a kind of feel that mother also views this aspect as
exerts a smothering influence, representative or his
especially because Sagittarius is internalized image of a
characterized by inner drive for mother, and his relationship
231
independence and freedom. And with his real-life mother

then my mom—well, this is kind who is smothering.
of the way I view my external
mother, but that also might also
be the internalized mother, too—
she‘s kind of very smothering.
I‘m an only child, so she watches
over me like a hawk—always
wants to check how I‘m doing,
where I am [laughs].
(I: You’re smiling as you tell me Alex‘s describing his
this. How do you feel when you’re relationship with his mother
telling me this?) revealed some lingering
I‘m still kind of vulnerable, and vulnerability in himself.
also kind of silly, even. Yeah.
(I: You said that you feel like
mother is smothering and it’s like
Pluto squaring the Moon, right—
the tension—am I saying it
correctly? So the tension between
the Pluto and the Moon and your
relationship with your mom who
is smothering, and you wanting to
break away and be free.)
5. Yeah, yeah. And the Moon in Alex experiences the Pluto Alex identifies strongly
my natal chart is actually within Moon square in his chart as dominant personality traits
the 1st house. So, it‘s identified a tension between his desire with the meanings
very much—a part of my to be free and his close associated with specific
personality identifies with the relationship with the planetary symbols.
Moon in Sagittarius, meaning that smothering mother. He also
I do enjoy traveling—not the interprets his Moon in
local travel, but more like long Sagittarius and in the 1st
distance travel, like, to different house of his chart as a
states or to different countries. strong desire and enjoyment
of long distance travel.
(I: So you see yourself as a Moon
in Sagittarius in some ways,
because it’s strong in your
chart?)
6. Yes, this is part of my Alex identifies with the Alex identifies with the
identification. This is one aspect symbolic meaning of the symbolic meaning of the
of my natal chart that I more Moon in his chart. He sees it Moon in his chart. He sees it
strongly identify with. as a symbol that is very as a symbol that is very
descriptive of his identity. descriptive of his identity.
(I: Is there anything else except
the relationship with your mom?
232
What does the square represent—

or you mostly see it as the
relationship with your mother?)
7. Yeah, it isn‘t my mom, it also Alex views the Moon in his For Alex the Moon square
has to do with my impulses or chart as not only Pluto in his chart has
instinctual drives—that‘s the way representative of his mother multiple meanings. It
I also see the Moon. So, meaning but also his instinctual represents his relationships
that in terms of Pluto, I drives and impulses. He with his mother, internal
sometimes repress my instinctual considers the symbolism of instinctual drives and a
drives. Like, you know, I want to the Moon Pluto square as tension he experiences
break free, literally, but I hold describing his inner tension between wanting to be free
myself back. And I think part of of wanting to be free and and holding himself back.
the tension also is the Neptune holding himself back. He He also relates his tendency
rising in Scorpio, it kind of also feels that Neptune rising in to ―daydream‖ and hold
exerts kind of this inhibitor Scorpio in his chart is himself back from action to
influence, where I distract myself descriptive of the inhibiting the symbolic meaning of
or sometimes go into the influence where Alex Neptune in his chart.
daydreaming world, rather than distracts himself into
just sit with this tension of daydreaming, rather than
wanting to hold my drive to break fully experiencing and
free, contain it. containing his inner tension.
(I: And you also mentioned—
before you said that the T-square
has a Venus connected to it,
right? So, how do you understand
that?)
8. Well, you know, this is—again Alex views his patterns of Alex connects his conflicted
it has this again inhibitor relating in romantic desires about intimate
influence in whatever romantic relationship as represented relationships to the
relationships I have, like by Venus involved in a T- symbolic meaning of a
whenever I‘m dating a woman or square with his Moon and particular astrological
whenever I‘m associating with Pluto. He experiences it as configuration in his chart
women, to some extent, wanting his partners to (the T-square between
instinctually or sometimes behave like his mother and Venus with the Moon and
unconsciously or sometimes even be very close and Pluto). He associates his
consciously, I start forming smothering, but if they conflicted desire for a close,
association with my mom. And I become too needy, he ―smothering‖ relationship,
try to look for whatever evidence, pushes them away. like the one he had with his
you know. On one hand, I try to mother, but at the same
encourage her to become like time, with his drive to be
maybe like my mom. On the independent with the
other hand, as soon as she symbolic meaning of this
displays this neediness, then I try astrological configuration.
to push her away—yeah.
(I: So is that connected with Pluto
Venus symbolism for you? Or
233
with the T-square?)

9. Well, it‘s more like the T- Alex attributes his pattern of Alex views his Venus
square influence, because—how relating in romantic opposition to Pluto as
was I going to articulate it? Yeah, relationship to a Venus representative of a tension
so Venus can symbolize this Pluto opposition in his he experiences in his
romance—romantic love. And chart, because Venus romantic relationships.
because Pluto actually opposes— traditionally symbolizes
it forms an opposition to the romance and Pluto opposing
Venus—there is this tension. It‘s it creates the tension. The
not a very strong opposition. It‘s opposition in Alex‘s chart is
like, as far as I remember, it‘s not very strong because it
about 8 degrees. So, it‘s just has an 8 * orb. In
barely on the cusp, but it‘s still astrological theory, the
within the tolerance. aspects are stronger when
they are closer to the
exactness. Alex experiences
some influence of this
opposition.
(I: So, how long ago did you
learn astrology? When did you
start using it to understand
something?)
10. Well, I have a friend who is Alex started to use astrology Alex started to use astrology
an astrologer. I started using it for around 1998, after being around 1998, after being
the first time—that‘s a good introduced to it by his introduced to it by his
question—I don‘t remember the friend. friend.
exact date, but it was around
1998—something like that.
Maybe ‗97. Yeah, it‘s about 13
years ago.
(: Can you summarize in your
own words how you use
astrology?)
11. Well, part of it is to explain Alex employs astrology to Alex employs astrology for
my own personality tendencies, explain his personality understanding and
including any inner conflicts that tendencies and inner explaining his personality
I may have. I may explain those conflicts. He explains them tendencies and inner
through interplanetary aspects. I through the symbolic conflicts. He explains them
also use it sometimes for meaning of interplanetary through the symbolic
predictive astrology once in a aspects. Occasionally, Alex meaning of interplanetary
while. I kind of look, for instance, uses predictive astrology by aspects. He sometimes uses
like, if I try to see what type of trying to see what conflicts predictive astrology by
conflicts am I going to he may have to face in the looking at the transits of the
experience, like, within the next next year. He uses transits outer planets, Pluto, Uranus
year, then I look for transits. For of the outer planets, and Neptune to his chart. He
instance, I might look, well, what especially Pluto which he tries to estimate what kind
234
will be the transit of Pluto considers influential in his of conflicts he may have to
particularly—I believe affects me. chart. Pluto, Uranus and face based on the aspects o
But—and it doesn‘t move much, Neptune are slow moving the outer planets to his natal
so that makes it fairly planets which makes it planets.
straightforward to analyze the easier for Alex to
Pluto transits—aspects to my understand how and which
natal planets. I also look at other natal planets they will
planets which also don‘t move affect. Faster planets, which
very fast, like Uranus or Neptune, are closer to the Earth, are
because if look at the planets so dynamic that Alex finds
which are close to the earth, not much meaning in their
things are so dynamic, it almost transits to his chart.
makes no sense.
(I: So you use transit of outer

planets to get some understanding
of what’s going on in your life,
right?)
For predictive astrology—in
order to predict.
(I: Is there anything right now Before the interview, Alex Alex is interested in
that is worth mentioning?) looked at his current knowing what current
12. Well, actually, I took a look transits, and noticed that in astrological transits he has
right before you interviewed me. I the past month he had an as it gives him additional
took a look earlier in the morning. almost exact semisextile symbolic information about
One thing I‘ve noticed in terms of between transiting Uranus his experiences.
aspects, that last month I had a and his natal Sun.
semisextile at 30 degrees, almost
exact to one degree, 30 degree
interaction between Uranus and
my natal Sun.
(I: Transiting Uranus to your Alex sometimes attributes Alex sometimes attributes
natal Sun.) meaning to the astrological his own meanings to the
13. Yes. So I looked up the transits from his own astrological transits and
interpretation actually. understanding of their sometimes relies on a guide
Sometimes I have an symbolism, at other times, to understand them. After
interpretation, but in this case I he referrers to a guide for reading a general
looked up the guide and it said, the interpretation. He interpretation of this transit
Well, you know, Uranus is the recently had a semisextile in a book, Alex had a better
planet of abrupt change, so in this between transiting Uranus understanding of his
particular case—the way this and his natal Sun, which he experience.
particular challenging aspect— experienced as a tension in
because semisextile that‘s 30 one of his friendships,
degrees, it‘s kind of a challenging where Alex was desiring
aspect. It‘s not very challenging, some change but his
but it‘s challenging enough; it direction and motivation
235
may manifest through some were not clear to him or his

tensions within my close friend and that caused
friendships or interpersonal difficulty in their
relationships. Like where there is relationship.
some kind of pull to change, or
there is some lack of
understanding in terms of where
I‘m going or where I‘m coming
from, which is exactly what
happened in retrospect with one
of my friendships.
(I: And this has just happened
recently?)
Yeah, within the last month.
Because it happened in January.
(I: So now you have some
knowledge and some
understanding. How does it help
or not help your behavior or your
experiences in your life? I mean,
does it alter your experience or
behavior in any way?)
14. Well, so one thing I‘m Alex uses astrology in Alex makes meaning out of
doing—in most cases, unless retrospect, to make sense of his recent past experiences
something is very outstanding, I events after they occurred, by reflecting on the
try to use astrology more in usually within the past year astrological symbolism of
retrospect, kind of to make sense or a few months. Unless he transits he had at the time.
of events. experiences something He resists using astrology to
(I: About something that extreme, he avoids basing predict his future behavior
happened?) his behavior based on because he considers it a
About something that happened astrological predictions. He self-fulfilling prophecy.
in recent past, within the past year is even resistant to the idea
or a few months. Unless creating his future based on
something extreme, I try not to astrological predictions,
base my behavior in the future because it maybe a self-
based on astrological predictions, fulfilling prophecy.
because I‘m afraid that part of it
[seemingly laughing a little] may
be a self-fulfilling prophecy that
to some extent I may create my
future. And I would kind of—I‘m
even resistant to the notion of
doing that.
(I: So it’s more like it’s a lens
through which you see the past,
right?)
236
Yeah.
(I: And does it help you? What
benefit do you gain from it, if
any?)
15. Well, it helps me come to Astrology helps Alex to put Alex uses astrology to put
terms, kind of to put the past into the past into perspective and his past into perspective and
perspective. Yeah, and also in the to accept it. Alex also used understand it better. He also
past, I used astrocartography. astrocartography to get a used astrocartography to get
That‘s another thing, just kind of sense for how different some new ideas about
to see, because I was localities would be places to which he might
contemplating or wondering compatible with his relocate that would be most
about if I were to relocate like to personality and would be suitable for him. Alex
different places, which place favorable for romance or a observed that the
would be compatible with my career. Alex has not acted information he found with
personality or to look for on the insights he got from astrology in most cases
romance, to look for a career. astrology but he got some matched his own intuition.
And I have not acted on that, but new ideas. He observed that
it kind of gave me some ideas. astrological information in
And I also get to check against most cases matched with his
my intuition, and in most cases, own intuition.
actually, astrology does match
with what my intuition told me.
(I: if you were to choose some
symbol in your chart, choose
something that’s most intriguing
for you maybe, and tell me in
detail what it is. )
What do you mean by symbol?
(I: I mean a planet or some
configuration in your chart. You
told me about this T-square
between the Moon, Venus and
Pluto.)
16. Well, in terms of the planets, Alex connects and identifies Alex attributes a particular
the one that I really connect or in particular with the significance to the
identify with is Pluto, because I symbolism of Pluto in his symbolism of Pluto in his
know that Pluto—well, according chart. He considers Pluto chart because it is the ruler
to my rising sign, Pluto really especially influential of his rising sign, Scorpio.
exercises strong influence in my because it rules his Scorpio Alex views Pluto energy as
chart, and I also identify with the rising sign. Alex interprets a need for control but by
influence of this particular planet. Pluto‘s energy in his life as learning to let go and
It‘s really about learning to a need to control by letting release rather than clinging
control by letting go, by releasing go and releasing rather than and holding on to things.
it, as opposed to grasping and grasping and claiming. He Alex observes that in his
claiming. And I know that, for knows that in his personal personal relationships he
me, what really works in relationships he attracts attracts people by creating
237
interpersonal relationships the people when he creates space and letting go, and
most effectively—when I really space and lets go, and repels repels them by clinging.
kind of let go, when I create space people when he is clingy.
in my relationships, I actually
attract people. Whereas when I
get very clingy, then people
recoil.
(I: So you understand this pretty
well, right? And why do you see
Pluto as important in your
chart?)
17. Well, the reason it is Alex considers Pluto Alex considers Pluto
important is, again, because of its important because of its influential and
influence. I remember reading influence in his chart. He representative of the need to
that one way kind of to harness read that one way to harness release what is unnecessary.
the power of Pluto and to use it the power of Pluto is to not He considers recent
effectively is not to try to use it to use it to overpower, and questioning of Pluto‘s status
overpower. It‘s actually about releasing unnecessary. Alex as a planet to be a sign of
releasing what‘s unnecessary. So, read that Pluto is one of the misunderstanding and
I remember reading a saying that most misunderstood planets. denial of its true
it‘s one of the most Alex observed that the significance.
misunderstood planets. Zodiac is recent questioning of
probably so much misunderstood Pluto‘s status and even its
that now astronomers have existence is a sign of denial
proclaimed that this is no longer a and misunderstanding of
real planet—they‘re evening this planet‘s importance in
questioning its [with a laugh] the Zodiac.
existence! Talk about denial.
(I: They don’t question the
existence, they question that’s a
planet, right?)
Yeah, yeah.
(I: They say it’s plan—not.
[laughs])
Yeah, Plan-not [laughs] Because
it‘s so distant. But astrologers say
it‘s actually one of the most
powerful planets.
(I: And why do you think it’s
important in your horoscope? I’m
asking about why do you think
that you are a Plutonian, right—if
we use astrological jargon?)
18. Well, again, because I have Alex believes that Pluto is Alex views Pluto as
Scorpio is my rising sign and important in his chart representative of the tension
actually if you look at my natal because it is the ruler of his he experiences in his
238
chart, based on my birth hour, it‘s rising sign, Scorpio, and is relationship with his
like almost smack in the middle placed in the middle of mother. The tension
of Scorpio. It‘s about 17 degrees. Scorpio, at 17 degrees. manifests as a polarity
And also, again, in terms of the Also, to Alex, it represents between the desire to
tension that I hold with my mom, the tension in his resolve the conflict by
without kind of the willingness to relationship with his taking some action and the
resolve it through fighting or mother, that manifests in a opposing desire to break the
through taking actual action, polarity of willing to resolve relationship.
breaking up literally, that the conflict through some
accounts for the struggle that I‘m action versus breaking up
going through a lot of.
(I: So what would breaking away
look like? Just moving away or
breaking the connection? )
19. Well, kind of be this way with Alex views breaking away Alex has Sagittarian
Sagittarius would be to move far from his mother as moving influences in his chart, and
enough from distance, where she very far so she won‘t be he attributes to them his
is not reachable by driving. You reachable by car, like to the desire to move far away
know, I would have to fly. So East Coast or even Alaska from his mother in order to
moving to the east coast or even or Washington State. This break away from her
moving to the far Northwest, like desire to move far away influence and tension in
Alaska or Washington State Alex considers Sagittarian. their relationship.
would be far enough.
(I: I see. Okay, is there another
example you can give me either
from your chart or from your
experience, where you used
astrology.)
20. Well, let‘s see, what other? Alex uses astrology to Alex uses astrology to
Well, I know sometimes I use check his compatibility with evaluate the areas of
astrology to check my friends or partners and to compatibility and tension in
compatibility with either a close look for a potential source his relationship with friends
friend or a dating partner, just to of tension or compatibility and partners. He observed
see what kind of tension I may be in the relationship. Alex that through astrology he
holding or what compatibility found the insights he got was able to identify the
there is. And I found that it works from astrology were very areas of tension and
very accurately, and the accuracy accurate, and they exactly compatibility with
is pretty uncanny, because it identified the compatible surprising accuracy.
exactly identifies the and tense areas of a
compatibility areas, and also there relationship.
is tension.
(I: Can you give me some specific
example with someone?)
21. I knew you‘d ask me that. Alex was anticipating the Alex used astrology to
Well, it‘s like with one of my interviewer‘s request for a identify strengths and
friends, remember, there were specific example of how he weaknesses in a relationship
239
kind of—again, I will focus on used astrology to identify with his friend, it helped
some of the challenging areas— strengths and weaknesses in him make sense out of it.
there was almost some—because his relationship. Alex
I remember one aspect which discussed an example of the
stood out—there was, for me, in tension he experienced in
terms of the joint synastry, chart one of his friendships. He
comparison, there was a strong attributed this tension to a
aspect between the Pluto and the Sun Pluto trine between his
Sun—or was it Pluto—yeah, if I and his friend‘s charts. Alex
remember. Yeah, it was, if I considered it powerful and
remember, there was Pluto Sun indicative of codependency
trine, if I remember. And there between him and his friend.
was more than just one aspect He observed that while
between Pluto and Sun. And I there was a joint search with
know that that was a very his friend, there was some
powerful aspect. tension that expressed in
(I: Between the two horoscopes, Alex pushing too hard and
right? One Pluto was trining the his friend shutting down, at
Sun of another person, right?) times it was in reverse. With
Yeah, between the charts. both Alex and his friend
(I: What was your experience of having their rising sign in
that in your relationship?) Scorpio there was a need for
Well, there was kind of a little bit trust and a desire for control
of codependency going, you in their relationship.
know. Kind of joint searching,
and yet there was a lot of tension,
because if I pushed things to hard,
there was kind of a shut-down. Or
vice-versa, you know?
(I: Mm-hm.)
So, again, there had to be some
trust, because if there was the
desire to control—and actually
the person happened to have the
rising sign also Scorpio.
(I: So, two Scorpios and Pluto in
a trine—)
Scorpio risings—yeah.
(I: Two Scorpio risings and Pluto
trine the Sun from one chart to
the other.)
Yeah.
(I: Did this knowledge change Alex uses his knowledge of Alex uses astrology to make
anything in your relationship?) astrology to make sense, to sense out of and to explain
22. Well, again, just like using the explain the tension in his tensions and dynamics
240
transit, I use it to make sense, to relationship. In the example present in his relationships.
explain the tension that‘s arising of his friendship, he He discussed one of his
within the relationship. I also observed that there was friendships in which there
acknowledge some other aspects. tension and power struggle was tension and a power
There were positive aspects in symbolized by Sun Pluto struggle. Alex associated
terms of the Mercury. I don‘t aspects between his and his these with the Sun Pluto
remember whether it was friend‘s charts. There were cross aspects; there was also
Mercury and Saturn, Mercury and also positive Mercury positive communication,
Moon, but positive aspects, so aspects between the two symbolized by the positive
communication was going fairly charts. In traditional cross aspects of Mercury
well, but then this Pluto Sun astrology Mercury is between the two charts.
aspect was creating this tension at associated with the
the same time. So there was some communication and mind.
ego struggle, you know—some Alex did not remember
power struggle. whether it was Mercury and
Saturn, or Mercury and the
Moon, but he noted that the
communication between
him and his friend was
going fairly well.
(I: In other words, this knowledge Alex acknowledged that his Alex uses his astrological
just helps you to understand—it astrological knowledge knowledge to put things into
puts something into perspective, helps him to put things into perspective, gain
right?) perspective, gain understanding and insight.
23. Put into perspective, gain understanding and insight. However, he does not adjust
understanding, gain insight. However, he does not adjust his behavior based on such
(I: But did it actually change his behavior based on such knowledge or insight. Alex
anything in your relationship or knowledge or insight. He uses his knowledge for
your behavior with this one? Or uses his knowledge for reflection rather than action.
not really?) reflection rather than action.
No, I don‘t think I‘ve adjusted my
behavior based on what I was
getting from the chart.
(I: Have you ever changed your
behavior according to new insight
that you got? In other words,
have you used this insight for
something more pro-active, or it’s
more reflective?)
Good question. I cannot think of
any specific example. It‘s not
coming to me.
(I: So, it’s more reflective, right?
You are reflecting and you’re
getting better perspective or
understanding of something?)
241
Yeah, yeah.
(I: But not necessarily that you
act on it.)
Well, not to the point where I
shift my behavior, depending on
what I‘m reading from the chart
or the way I‘m interpreting the
chart.
(I: Was there a time in your life Alex discussed an example Alex attributed his
when you were stressed out and it of how he experienced the experience of inner tension
helped you to understand your transit of Pluto to his natal 8 or 9 years ago to a transit
stress more? You’ve given me Moon about 8 or 9 years of Pluto to his natal Moon.
some examples . . .) ago. He felt a lot of inner At that time, Alex
I gave you the example, yeah. stress, a tension between his experienced a desire to
(I: Is there any other? Or you desire to break free from his physically break away from
could talk more about that, mother, but did not have his mother by moving far
because I imagine you can say enough impetus or courage away, but he did not have
more about the Moon and Pluto to pull it off. Alex had a enough impetus or courage
square as far as your internal strong desire to move far to follow the desire. Alex
experiences.) away from his mother, to a experienced a lot of inner
24. Well, actually it was a Pluto distant location, but he did stress at that time.
Moon—transiting Pluto Moon not follow this desire.
conjunct.
Well, there was a lot of inner
stress—you know, again, it was
mostly felt within as a very strong
tension—again, this drive to
break free of the mother. But not
having perhaps the impetus or the
courage to actually pull it off.
(I: That’s when Pluto was
transiting your natal Moon,
right?)
Yes.
(I: So you felt a stronger desire to
break away from her than
before?)
Yeah, physically separate. I
mean, go far, literally. Go, not
necessarily to another foreign
country, but go to a totally distant
location—relocate to a distant
location.
(I: But you didn’t.)
But I didn‘t.
(I: And the transit is over, right?
242
It was a few years back.)

Yes, it was about 9 years ago.
Eight, 9, years ago.
(I: Has there anything changed in
your relationship with your mom
since then? Or is it pretty much
the same?)
25. Well, there is still this pulling Alex still experiences the Alex‘s astrological
back and forth right now, you pull back and forth pull knowledge did not affect his
know, because of all the therapy I between wanting to separate behavior. He still
had and all of those insights. I from his mother and being experiences the inner
might have a better understanding afraid to do it. After having tension between wanting to
of my mom‘s perspective, and his own psychotherapy and break away from his
also my friends who‘ve had discussing the issue with his mother, and not having
therapy themselves, you know, friends who are also enough courage to do this.
and who are insight junkies just experienced in therapy, This insight, however, does
like me, and I understand my Alex started to understand not give him the courage to
mom‘s perspective a bit better, so his mother‘s perspective go through a separation with
I can really see her perspective. better. The understanding, her.
But this still does not give me the however, does not give him
courage to initiate the the courage to go through
breakthrough or the breakup— the breakup or separate
separation. from her.
(I: Okay. And how do you
understand Neptune in your
chart, because you mentioned in
the beginning that it’s strong?)
26. Well, it‘s, again, this tendency Alex understands the Alex understands and
towards dreaminess, escapism— meaning of Neptune in his explains his character and
you know, daydreaming. Again, chart as his tendency tendencies with astrology.
kind of wishing, idealizing what towards dreaminess, For example, Alex views
things might be like, but not escapism and daydreaming. Neptune in his chart as
taking action. It also accounts It is the approach of wishing symbolic of his tendency
for—the way I explain it—it for and idealizing things but towards dreaminess and
accounts for a little bit of the not taking action. Alex also escapism, interest in artistic
tendency or interest in artistic understands Neptune as endeavors, and general
endeavors, pursuits, like my symbolic of his tendency passivity and daydreaming
interests in music and poetry. and interest in artistic rather than taking action.
Yeah. endeavors like music and
(I: So artistic inclinations.) poetry. Neptune represents
Inclinations, drives. his artistic inclinations and
(I: Daydreaming and being more drives but also a tendency
passive, right?) towards being more passive
In a passive way, actually. and dreaming rather than
acting on his wishes.
(I: Does it connect to your not Alex did not connect not During the interview, Alex
243
having the courage or strength to having enough courage to created a new meaning
separate with your mom, or is a separate with his mom and connection between his
separate sort of thing?) his passive tendencies inner tension of wanting to
27. You know, I never formed the symbolized by Neptune break away from his mother
direct link, but now that you say until the interview. He made and not acting on this
it, it would make perfect sense, this connection during the desire. He attributed the
wouldn‘t it? [laughs] interview in response to the tension to the Moon
(I: [laughs] Well, I don’t know. interviewers suggestion, and Neptune aspect in his chart,
I’m just inquiring. I think you are because the Moon is in and the Moon‘s semisextile
the one who can make this semisextile aspect with aspect with Alex‘s
connection for sure.) Alex‘s ascendant and with ascendant. In traditional
Yeah, well, to some extent it Neptune in his chart, and astrology, the Moon
would make sense, especially the the Moon is traditionally generally symbolizes the
tension that‘s held, because associated with a mother. mother, and Neptune
actually if I look at the Moon, it‘s Alex looks at the Moon symbolizes escapism,
within the cusps. It‘s, again, Neptune influences as passivity, and dreaminess.
semisextile with my ascendant, symbolic of some residual
and also within enough tolerance tension in his relationship
with Neptune, if I look at the with his mother.
Moon Neptune influence, there is
also some residual tension there.
(I: What is the most fascinating Alex discussed that a T- Alex is interested in
part of your chart for you— square configuration in his understanding all psychic
maybe the part that you don’t chart as drawing his manifestations of his T-
understand as well?) attention most of all. A T- square configuration in his
28. Well, again, this T-square— square is an astrological chart. A T-square is an
totally draws attention. Because I pattern of two planets astrological pattern of two
really want to know all of the opposing each other, and a planets opposing each other,
psychic manifestation, and not third one squaring them and a third one squaring
only that I understand if—that both. Alex has a strong them both. He attributes to
when there is a square in my chart interest to know all the this opposition a strong
it‘s much more difficult for me to psychic manifestations of psychological tension that
break free this basic connection. the T-square in his chart. He motivates him to act and
If there is an opposition, then I views the square aspect as break free, while the square
struggle, I fight and then I take representative of some aspect represents a milder
action—there is enough tension tension in his life that is, tension not strong enough to
for me to take action. If there is a however, not strong enough motivate action.
square and the tension is there, to motivate him to act on it.
but it‘s not strong enough or there It may be more rewarding to
may be perhaps secondary gains keep things together rather
for me to hold on, so there is not than break away from them.
quite enough motivation for me to In contrast, Alex
take action to break free. There is understands the opposition
enough reward to keep things aspect in his T-square as
together. representative of a tension
(I: The way they are.) strong enough to motivate
244
Yeah. The way they are, yeah. that motivates him to take
action and resolve the
tension by breaking free.
(I: There is fascination because
it’s a strong, powerful
manifestation in your life
somehow, right?)
29. Well, it‘s a strong one, and I Alex considers the T-square Alex attributes some
remember reading all of those configuration in his chart a significance and strength to
astrological guides that say that strong one, and, based in the a T-square configuration in
people actually with T-squares or information he got from his chart. Based on the
even Grand Cross—you know, astrological guides (books), information he found in
that‘s where their force is, there is he considers T-squares and astrological guides, he
like so much psychic tension that Grand Cross to be considers these
those people either they perish or representative of psychic configurations so dramatic
they become like super-heroes. force and tension so that they result in people
dramatic that they result in either perishing or
people perishing either becoming super-heroes.
perishing or becoming t
super-heroes.
(I: Do you think it matters which
planets participate in the T-
square?)
30. Yeah. Obviously, if it‘s a Alex considers that in a T-
planet that exerts more influence, square the more influential
like for instance if I have Scorpio planet is the one that is also
rising, then Pluto is one of the otherwise prominent in his
more prominent planets. If I have, chart. For example, he has
let‘s say Pisces rising, then Scorpio rising and its ruler
Neptune becomes the more Pluto is therefore one of the
prominent planet. So it‘s the more prominent planets. For
ruling planet. If I have Cancer a person with Pisces rising
rising, then the Moon is more its ruler Neptune would be
prominent in my chart. So, if it‘s more prominent, and for a
one of the more prominent person with Cancer rising,
planets in the chart then the the Moon. If the prominent
square with that planet or planet is involved in a T-
especially the T-square or the square or Grand Cross
Grand Cross are much more configuration that makes it
powerful. more powerful.
(I: What about Mars in your Alex did not consider Mars Alex associates the
chart? Because Mars is the as a traditional ruler of his symbolic meaning of Mars
traditional ruler of Scorpio.) chart until the interview, but in the fire sign Leo of his
31. Mars is a ruler—wait, no, it‘s he understands his Mars in chart with his humorous
Aries. Leo, a fire sign, as symbolic approach to anger. When
(I: And before Pluto was of his humorous approach to Alex expresses anger, others
245
discovered, Mars was considered anger. When Alex is usually react in laughter or
the ruler of Scorpio. So ancients expressing his anger, other do not take it personally.
considered Mars the ruler of people react by laughing or
Scorpio.) do not take it very
Really not Aries? personally. Alex thinks that
(I: Both. Because before there others may see the light end
weren’t enough planets for each of anger.
sign, right? There were seven, so
only the Moon and the Sun—they
were ruled one sign.)
Yeah, the only way I looked at, in
terms of my native chart, in terms
of Mars‘ placement, I looked
there is some amplification,
because there is my Mars also in
a fire sign, and Mars is in Leo. So
the way I usually analyze Mars
is—Mars in Leo especially, it
helps explain my kind of
humorous approach to anger.
Whenever I express my anger,
most people actually react by
laughing. And also, when I‘m
angry, in most cases, people do
not take that anger very
personally. They might kind of
see the light end of anger.
(I: I’m just noticing in your chart The interviewer pointed out Alex was not aware of some
that you have another T-square another T-square existing configuration in his
between Mars, Neptune and configuration in Alex‘s chart, when the researcher
Mercury. So that’s just for your chart. He was not aware of pointed them out he was
information. [laughs]) it until the interview and intrigued by their meaning
[laughs] Really? reacted with surprise and but did not attempt to
(I: Here. The Mars squares interest. Alex paid closer elaborate on it.
Neptune, Mars squares Mercury attention to his T-square
and Mercury is in opposition, in a between Venus, the Moon
wide opposition to Neptune. So, and Pluto.
here it has this triangular look to
it.)
Yeah, well, that—
(I: That’s something to think
about.)
[laughs]
(I: You were focusing on Venus
the Moon and Pluto.)
Yeah, the Pluto—yeah.
246
(I: If I were to ask you, since you

didn’t really think about the other
T-square much, right—)
Yeah, I have not read about the
other—
(—and you didn’t attribute a lot
of meaning to it, yet, but if I were
to ask about this potent Pluto,
Moon and Venus T-square, would
you be willing to act it out a little
bit ? if you were to speak from
each planet’s position in your
psyche, what would they say? )
32. Well, so my Moon would say, Alex, upon the invitation of Alex associates the internal
Come on [Alex], just stop the interviewer, spoke from motivation and a sense of
rationalizing and idealizing and the point of view of each positive self-encouragement
day-dreaming and escaping. planet, as he understands with the symbolic meaning
[sounds like he’s smiling] Just go them. His Moon urged him of his Moon. He encouraged
take some free connection, you to stop day-dreaming, himself to separate from his
know, go move or go separate idealizing and escaping, and connection with his mother,
from your mom and see what it‘s instead make connections, and to stop day-dreaming
like for you. Just live your life. move and separate from his and escaping, but rather
You know, and then do it mom. This aspect of his make free connections,
separately. psyche urged him to live his move, and live his life
life and see what it is like independently.
for Alex to do it separately
from his mother.
(I: I notice that you’re smiling.) Alex felt good and liberated
Yeah, yeah. when he was speaking from
(I: how does it feel to say that?) the Moon‘s perspective.
It feels kind of liberating.
[laughs]
(I: So, pleasant, feeling good.)
Pleasant, yeah. Yeah.
(I: Okay, is there anything else
the Moon would say?)
(I: Okay, is there anything else Alex continued to express Alex expressed the internal
the Moon would say?) the Moon by saying that life message of his Moon by
33. Well, it would say that life is is a journey and one should encouraging himself to take
a journey, you know, so why not make the best of it. He saw life as a journey and make
make the best of it? Why not no sense to sitting in one the best of it, to travel and
actually literally take a journey? place and would want to not to sit in one place, to
Why sit in one place? It makes no literally take life as a live his own life and not to
sense to do that. journey. He acknowledges think so much about his
(I: And how does that feel to say that to express this part of Mother.
that?) himself feels good and
247
Pretty good. [laughs] Feels accurate.

accurate.
(I: Feels true, right?)
True, yeah.
(I: What about, is there anything
else it wants to say? Let’s give it
the full [little laugh] expression.)
You‘re trying to get my

[thoughts?] [little laugh] . . . yeah,
just live your own life and don‘t
think so much about your mom.
(I: Is there anything else it wants
to say? [laughs] Because it seems
like it has a lot to say.)
That‘s it! [laughs]
(I: Okay, so what about the other
planets? So what Pluto would say
or Venus. Take one—who wants
to jump in first.)
34. Well, what Pluto would say, When Alex was invited to When Alex expressed his
Well, you know . . . it actually it speak from the point of understanding of Pluto in
gets—it‘s interesting—it gets view of Pluto in his chart, his psyche, he noted his
kind of philosophical—it says, he observed that it was awareness of the temporary
Well, you know, everything getting interesting and nature of all relationship
passes, so there is no real need to philosophical. The message and life itself, and
get attached—that you will lose of Pluto was that everything encouraged himself to leave
your mom. Your mom will die. passes and there is no need the attachment aside. Alex
So, and that‘s a fact. That‘s why for Alex to get attached, was aware that he was going
kind of your preoccupation and because sooner or later he to lose his mom sooner or
your attachment, they‘re all will lose his mom. She is later to death. The
temporary, and to a sense it‘s going to die, and that‘s attachment appeared
vanity, you know. It‘s pointless. unavoidable. Therefore pointless and vain from this
(I: That’s what Pluto says? That Alex‘s sense of point of view. At the same
it is vanity?) preoccupation and time, he also expressed the
Yeah. attachment to his mom is all need to go for much loved
(I: Is there anything else it wants temporary and vanity. The change and see where the
to say?) encouragement of Pluto was road will take him.
It says, just—again, just drop to drop Alex‘s attachment
your attachment and just be and be himself. By allowing
yourself and see what happens. himself to go for a much
You will learn. You know, just let loved change, he would be
a love for a change allow your open to the possibilities.
Sagittarius to drive and see where
it takes you.
(I: And what about the Venus.
248
Does Venus have anything to

say—
[big laugh]
(I: —in the sense of relationship?
[laughs] I’m trying to get a sense
how the planets in your T-square
would interrupt each other more
experientially.)
35. Well, Venus says, [smiling When the interviewer When Alex explored
again] Well, you know, it‘s like invited Alex to speak from internal perception of Venus
What about your mom? What the point of view of his in his psyche, he expressed
about the love? What about Venus, he expressed a concern about his
compassion? You know, there is concerns about his mom, relationship with his mother
all this drive for independence, love, and being and others, with love, and
drive for autonomy, but then compassionate towards her. being compassionate. He
you‘re kind of throwing the baby With all the drive for felt his drive for autonomy,
literally with the bathwater, you independence and independence and self-
know? You‘re undervaluing the autonomy, he was expression could come at a
relational aspects. You‘re concerned he might be cost of losing important
overvaluing the self-expression— losing something important relationships, he also
this creative drive. That‘s very in his relationship with criticized himself for putting
true, but at the same time, what others. Venus represented his self-expression first and
about the compassion, what about Alex‘s sense that he was being uncaring or
the relationship? How does that overvaluing the self- unconcerned what effect it
come across? Are you really expression at a cost of his may have on his mother.
being caring, if all you think relationships, and being
about is self-expression? compassionate. There was
(I: So does it have anything else also self-criticism in
to say? [laughs]) Venus‘s message that Alex
[laughs] What about your mom? was not caring when he put
[laughs] his self-expression first.
(I: So there’s concern about your
mom.)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, what effect
would that have on her?
(I: So when you say these things,
when I’m inviting you to say those
things, how does that feel?
What’s your experience of that?)
36. Well, there‘s tension, you Alex felt tension and guilt
know, when I talk about Venus. about his wanting autonomy
Tension, almost guilt about— and independence, because
more like guilt about wanting— it felt egocentric to some
really wanting the autonomy and extent.
independence and self-drive.
Feels kind of egocentric to some
249
extent.
(I: Is there anything else—,
imagine that you’re looking from
the side to this, right? You
expressed three dynamics—three
planets. How is that if you were to
look from the side, like a witness
or observer? Is there anything
else you would notice?)
37. Well, it‘s interesting—so one Upon reflection on the Alex reflected on the
thing I‘d notice, there is really— themes he explored, Alex psychological dynamics,
there seems to be more of a noticed that his internal which he associates with the
tension—more of a conflict tension in his psyche is hard aspects between
between Venus and those other between what is represented Venus, the Moon and Pluto
planets—Venus and the Moon by Venus represented and in his chart. He noted that
and the Pluto, than between Pluto what is represented by the the tension exited in his
and Sagittarius, because Pluto and other planets, Pluto and the psyche between a drive for
Sagittarius, they have kind of a Moon. He understood autonomy and independence
common message, saying, Live symbolism of Pluto and represented by Pluto and
your life, you know, just be Sagittarius in his chart as a Sagittarius, and his sense of
yourself and let your mom take drive for being independent caring, and relating to his
care of herself to the best of her and living his life, and mother, symbolized by
ability. You owe her gratitude, leaving his mom to take Venus.
but you don‘t owe her your life, care of herself. He
literally. understood Venus to
represent his compassion
guilty for not supporting his
mom or for abandoning his
relationship with her.
(I: And but the Venus has the Alex elaborated that Venus Alex associated the
message of—) represented his feeling of symbolic meaning of Venus
38. Compassion, caring—yeah. guilt for not being truly in his chart with his sense of
(I: And a little bit of guilt, right?) caring, when he wanted to guilt for not being caring
Well, you know, part of it—part follow his internal drive for about his mother in his
of kind of intra-psychic individuation without strong psychic drive for
manifestation of wanting to considering his mother‘s individuation and separation
individuate, to separate from the concerns. from her.
mom is guilt, you know, because
then I‘m not thinking about what
her concerns are—I‘m truly not
being caring. And there is an
emotional response to lack of
caring is guilt.
(I: Do you experience Venus and
Pisces as merging with your
mom? Or in general as merging
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with others? )
39. Yeah, I see Venus more like Alex views Venus as Alex attributes his sense of
representing compassion. And representing compassion in compassion in relationship
compassion is really about relationship. He feels than to his Venus in Pisces. He
merging. And the true when truly compassionate may fuse with another
compassion, to some extent, I‘m he experiences some person when he is truly
actually losing the connection to symbiotic fusion in which compassionate, and lose
my own experience, if it differs he loses connection to his connection to his own
significantly from the other own experience if it is experience if it is
person. So, yes, it does involve significantly different from significantly different from
some symbiotic fusion. the other person‘s. the other person‘s.
(I: Say that again— can you

repeat that again? It’s because I
think it’s very significant what
you just said.)
40. Well, I said, you know, when Alex elaborated that in his
I‘m truly compassionate, then I‘m view true compassion is
being with—you know, I‘m being with another person
suffering with the other person. even through suffering.
But, of course, it has a choice, but Leaving another person to
what happens if my own handle their challenges
instinct—again, like, the Moon— alone is not compassionate.
if my own instinct is just to say, In being compassionate and
Fuck you—you know—and I‘m reaching out to another,
using a strong word—it‘s like I Alex feels that he will put
really don‘t care, but if I‘m truly his own needs and impulses
being compassionate, then I will second.
reach out to the other person, I‘m
not going to put my own needs or
put my own impulses first. This is
not the nature of compassion.
Compassion is really about being
with the other person; it‘s not just
saying, Well, you know, you‘re
on your own, Buddy.
(I: But there’s an element of self-
sacrifice in that, it sounds like,
right? Because you’re putting
aside your own desires in order to
be compassionate, if I am
understanding correctly?)
41. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, this Alex saw the negative side Alex attributed self-effacing
is kind of—this is the way I of Venus in Pisces sacrifice and losing oneself
explain the dark side of Venus psychological manifestation to the more negative
and Pisces or Pisces sign itself, is in self-effacing sacrifice, in manifestation of Venus in
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just this self-effacing sacrifice. losing oneself, one‘s drives Pisces. When this happens it
And where I lose myself, lose my and one‘s essence. This is painful for him.
drives, lose my . . . essence, in a experience is painful for
sense. Alex.
(I: How does that feel for you to
lose yourself?)
Painful. It‘s painful.
(I: So, if you had a choice not to
do it, would you have taken it?
[laughs] I’m trying to probe into
the experience of Venus and
Pisces.)
42. If I had a choice to do it— Alex considers being Alex views deliberate
well, I believe it is a choice, you compassionate a choice that compassion as a
know. When I choose to go he makes most of the time. manifestation of Venus in
compassionate, actually it is a If he disagrees with a person Pisces. Being
choice, because most of the time I he could chose to not listen compassionate enables him
do decide—it‘s a conscious to him or her, or to tune into to become completely
decision for me, like, even in the person and become so nonjudgmental, merge with
terms of listening. Like, if I compassionate that he another person
disagree, I can say, Well, you would be completely intrapsychically and see
know, I‘m totally not with you, or nonjudgmental of him or their perspective. But the
I‘m thinking about the meeting her. He could merge with drawback is that in this
I‘m going to have tomorrow. I‘m another person process, Alex does not
not listening to you. Or I can just intrapsychically, and see express his internal drives
really become attuned to where their perspective. This he he lets them go, but later
the other person is. So, yes, I do considers a positive regrets not having spoken
have—and I believe that‘s the manifestation of Venus in his truth.
light side, or kind of the positive Pisces. This he considers
aspect to Venus—that I can natural compassion, but it
become so compassionate that has a drawback of him not
I‘m really—I totally become expressing his own drives.
nonjudgmental of the other Later he feels guilty for not
person. Because I kind of merge having spoken his truth.
with them intrapsychically. I can
see things from their perspective.
That‘s kind of natural
compassion. But the drawback is
I do have those inner drives and
once in a while, when I kind of
bracket those inner drives, I let
them go, then down the road, like,
in retrospect they come to haunt
me. Then I feel guilty about not
having spoken my truth.
(I: How do you imagine this
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square between the Moon and the

Venus can be worked out to your
benefit? It sounds like from what
you’re saying, one wants the
independence, freedom, self-
expression, not to be bound,
right? And another wants to take
care, love, merge, be
compassionate, think about other
person’s needs first. If I’m
rephrasing what you were saying
correctly. What would it be like to
have them work with each other,
rather than pull in different
directions? )
43. Well, part of it, actually for Alex feels that in order to
me, includes some cognitive work out his internal tension
reframing, meaning that actually between his drive for
by taking care of the other or by independence, autonomy,
taking care of relationship, I and self-expression and his
actually do take care of myself. drive to be compassionate
And that‘s very true on a certain and take care of others in
level, you know? Because it‘s my relationships, he needs to
belief, or almost, like—this is reframe his perception. He
why I‘m hesitant just to break finds that when he takes
free literally—totally cut the bond care of relationship, he also
with my mom, because part of it takes care of himself. One
is actually cutting the bond with of the reasons he is hesitant
myself. to break away the bond with
his mom, because he would
be cutting the bond with
himself.
(I: So you said that—let me
rephrase it the way I
understood—by taking care of
your own needs, you are also—
you didn’t say you take care of
others, but something about
relationship to yourself in that is
important, right? )
44. Yes, so, in a sense, by taking Alex feels like when he
care of the relationship, or by takes care of his
attending to the other, I do attend relationships by attending to
to a certain part of me, you know, others, he also attends a part
which likes that connection, that of himself, the part that
caring. needs and likes caring and
253
connection.
(I: Okay. Can you use anything in
the symbols, in astrological
symbols—can it be helpful sort of
in resolution of the T-square.
[little laugh] So you have the
Moon is in Sagittarius, the Venus
is in Pisces and Pluto in Virgo.
And the opposite sign—I’m not
sure if you’re aware that the
opposite sign, the empty part of
the T-square also has importance,
which in your case would be 14
degrees of Gemini.)
45. Yeah, I‘m not aware about the Alex was not aware that the
importance of the empty sides empty sides in T-square, in
that you were just telling me that astrology are considered
the first time. important for tension
(I: I’m introducing new concepts) resolution. The interviewer
[laughing] You are, and I‘m introduced this idea to him,
curious about that. and reacted with curiosity
(I: So maybe I will tell you later, but he did not see any new
then, if you wanted to know.) insight in it right away.
Okay.
(I: But in the symbolism of either
Sagittarius or Virgo or Pisces, do
they give you any—maybe they
give you some more insight of
how to work it out, how to make it
more balanced, rather than
challenging or pull and push?)
Um . . .
(I: Do you follow what I’m trying
to say?)
No. I didn‘t get it.
(I: In other words, I’m checking if
what you know about your chart,
what you know about the symbols,
is there a sort of answer to your
problem in that [laughs]?)
Is there an answer kind of
satisfactory resolution?
(I: Yeah. Resolution of some new
insight. If you could find in the
moment—or maybe not.)
46. Well, kind of the easiest way, Alex sees the easiest path of Alex considered that the
254
and I‘ve tried this, is really to try resolving his inner tension easiest path to resolving his
to see the things from the Venus in embracing the inner conflict would be in
and really embracing that perspective of Venus and embracing and fully
perspective—not just talking allowing himself to experiencing what Venus in
about it and siding with the experience it fully. Alex Pisces represents in his
Sagittarius drive, but really considers Venus in Pisces in chart. Alex attributes to
allowing me to go there and stay particular symbolize the Venus in Pisces a capacity
there experientially. Like, you capacity for devotional love. for devotional love. Being a
know, part of one of the Venus Being a devoted child, son, devoted child, son, or lover
gifts, and I guess in this particular or lover and not putting his and not putting his own
case Venus and Pisces, is own needs and drives first needs and drives first would
devotional love. Kind of really would be the full expression be an expression of such
being a devoted child, devoted of Venus in Pisces. Alex has Venus in Pisces. Alex has
son, devoted lover, and not never allowed himself to go not allowed himself to
putting my own needs, my own through the full experience experience devotional love
drives first. And I imagine that of devotional love, but he fully, but he sees a potential
holds a potential for satisfactory sees that he can have this for doing so by becoming a
resolution. I never allowed myself would be one potential healer.
to go there all the way. But I can resolution of his inner
actually see, you know, if I were conflict.
to become a healer that would be
one potential resolution, conflict
resolution.
(I: So is there anything else that Alex felt completed with the
needs to be expressed about this discussion of his T-square
discussion—the T-square or the involving Venus, the Moon
planets? Because I want to shift and Pluto.
gears to something else.)
Yeah, that‘s all for now.
(I: I think we’ve discussed quite a
bit! [laughs] So, let me ask you,
was there any time when
astrology was not helpful in your
experience?)
47. Nothing comes up for me, no. Alex could not remember a Alex could not remember a
Nothing. time when astrology was time when astrology was
(I: Mm hm. You mentioned that not helpful to him. He not helpful to him. He uses
you use it to understand confirmed again that he uses it in retrospect to put his
something in retrospect, to think it to understand his life in experiences in perspective,
about things, right?) retrospect, to put things into but he resists basing his
Yeah. perspective and he resists choices about the future on
(I: To have like a lens or basing his choices about the astrology. He believes that
perspective.) future on astrology. It feels his would create a self-
Yeah. to Alex that this would fulfilling prophecy.
(I: And you don’t use it to make creating self-fulfilling
choices about the future—you prophecy.
255
kind of still—you’re guided by

your own instinct and so on,
right?)
Yeah, there is actually some
resistance.
(I: To using it—)
Yeah, to creating the self-
fulfilling prophecy.
(I: So is there something in your
chart which you don’t understand
but you would like to understand
more?)
48. Well, now that you mentioned Alex is curious about the Alex was curious about new
it—[laughs] There is an empty new concepts introduced astrological concepts he was
part of the T-square, and you also during the interview: the exposed to during the
mentioned to me another T- empty part of the T-square interview. He did not
square, which [laughing] I was in his chart, and another T- attempt to interpret them by
not aware of. square which he had not himself.
(I: All your life [laughs]) been aware of all his life.
[laughing] All my life. Maybe it He considered that it was
was meant to come out just now. meant to come out now.
[laughs]
(I: I just give you some new Alex was curious about the Alex is curious about the
conceptual ideas, right? And I new astrological concepts new astrological concepts
will later explain what they mean. because he anticipated that because he anticipates new
What’s that like to have them? he may find new insights, insights and new
What did you experience when new understanding of his understanding from them,
you heard that there is something personality. He thought that he is hopeful it can even
else?) it could even offer him offer insight on how to
49. I‘m curious. insights in how to resolve resolve his inner tensions.
(I: Well, give me more specific this inner tension.
motivation. Why is it interesting
for you?)
Well, it might offer me some new
insights, again, in understanding
my personality. Or maybe it will
even offer me insights in how to
resolve this tension—intrapsychic
tension.
(I: Do you feel that because you Alex thinks that astrology Alex considers astrology
haven’t known something or you maybe helpful for him in helpful for him in
didn’t know the particular thing, discovering some new discovering something new
do you think it’s holding some knowledge about himself. about himself.
secret answer that you don’t
know about yourself? Could that
be true, or not?)
256
50. Yes.
That‘s always a possibility.
[laughs]
(I: Okay. I’m just trying to see
how you make sense out of those
things.)
51. And, you know, I look at Alex looks at everything in Alex believes that out of
everything, everything is a life as journey, and any experience may come
potential journey, experience and anticipates that any some new insight, a missing
there just might be a missing link, experience may contain a knowledge not that may
which might just come out with a missing link which can alter his behavior or
secret combination, again, now come out. He pointed out understanding he attribute
you can always ascribe this that his tendency maybe this belief to his tendency to
tendency toward my Neptune connected to his Neptune in idealize things symbolized
rising in Scorpio and this Scorpio which he sees as a by Neptune in Scorpio in his
tendency toward idealizing. But tendency toward idealizing. chart,
who knows? Anything‘s possible. A new insight may prompt a
There might be something which new understanding of a new
help—and some insights, some way of relating.
shift which may prompt some
new understanding or new way of
relating—who knows?
(I: Is there anything in your
horoscope which you don’t like?
Any particular experience or
manifestation or you’re not happy
about something? )
52. Well, it‘s interesting—I‘m Alex still tries to understand Alex is still trying to
still kind of trying to understand the Saturn in Aquarius understand what influences
some of the Saturnian influence— influences in his chart. Alex Saturn in Aquarius in his
you know, Saturn in Aquarius. notices that one of his chart manifests. He
Like, one of my major defense defense mechanisms is attributes his defense
mechanisms is rationalizing, rationalizing, and mechanism of rationalizing
intellectualizing, which is one of intellectualizing, and being and impersonal in personal
the darker sides of Aquarius— impersonal—he attributes relationship to a darker
being kind of impersonal. And it these qualities to a darker manifestation of Aquarius.
has manifested kind of in side of psychological Alex observed that he uses
challenging ways in relationships, manifestation of Aquarius. this defense mechanism
where I go toward that defense Alex noted that this more often than the others
mechanism much more often than tendency expressed in and it is challenging in his
I do utilize other forms of defense challenging ways in his relationships. He also
[1]. But otherwise, again, the relationship because he uses remembered the traditional
Saturn—it‘s associated with the this form of defense more association of Saturn and
dead, and, again, you know, I frequently than others. He the dead.
know we‘re kind of—we‘ve taken also remembered that Saturn
a lot of time already. is associated with the dead
257
but stopped elaborating

further for the fear that the
interview has been already
too long.
(I: We’re coming to noon, I want
to go for an hour. We’re about 50
minutes into interview, but we can
wrap up. You gave me lots of
examples and things.)
Yeah.
(I: Let me see . . . so, Saturn you Alex considers Saturn in his Alex does not fully
spoke about. I mean, I could ask chart as the only planet he is understand influences of
you more about your chart.) having difficulties with Saturn in his chart, he
53. Yeah, Saturn is probably the understanding and not considers that it represents
only planet which kind of I‘m knowing to work with the challenges but he does not
having difficulties with. challenges it represents. know how to work with it.
(I: Because you don’t fully
understand it, or you don’t
necessarily like the
manifestation?)
Well, I don‘t fully understand it,
and it kind of gives me intuitively
this flavor of being a challenge—
a challenge to some extent—part
of it is—one of the bigger aspects
of the challenge is not
understanding enough its
influence and how to work with
it.
(I: Well, so if you were to enact Alex views Saturn in Alex views Saturn in
Saturn, what would it say?) Aquarius as a symbol and Aquarius as a symbol and
54. Saturn and Aquarius, it‘s teacher of transience. teacher of transience.
again—one way to explain itself
is, Well, you know, everything
passes, you know, and ―this too
shall pass,‖ and that‘s one of the
bigger lessons. It‘s a lesson in
transience—you know, that
nothing lasts.
(I: That’s what Saturn says?)
Yeah.
(I: Is there anything more? Can
you speak from a first person)
55. Okay, well, it‘s, again—it Alex observed that Alex attributes to Aquarius
comes—from Aquarius transience which to him is perspective the sense of
standpoint, it‘s like, you know, on one of the meanings of impermanence and
258
one hand, nothing lasts—it can be Aquarius, could be taken transience. He feels that
taken in a kind of very negative both positively and time erases everything good
way. But from the positive negatively. Negatively it and bad including his past
perspective, because nothing represents the sense of mistakes. Nothing lasts, and
lasts, then that means all of my impermanence and that but if he tries something
failures, all of my mistakes are nothing lasts. Positively, it new he starts completely a
actually going to get erased. So, indicates that all Alex‘s new, as if in a blank slate.
it‘s like I got a blank slate every mistakes will also not last,
time I try something. and be erased. So each new
(I: I’m not sure I follow. What do experience, new trial would
you mean? Why would they get be as if Alex got a blank
erased? Because everything slate. Time erases
passes?) everything good and bad.
Yeah.
(I: So there’s no record of
anything left kind of? Like it’s like
the water over the sand or
something?)
Yeah.
(I: So whatever pictures you drew
on the sand, the time washes them
away kind of, right?)
Exactly. Time erases it.
(I: And nothing matters?) Negative interpretation of The negative meaning of
56. That‘s a negative impermanence and impermanence and
interpretation on the situation. transience is that nothing transience for Alex is that
The positive interpretation of the matters. Positive nothing matters, but positive
situation: because time heals— interpretation for Alex is the meaning is that time heals
time literally heals all wounds, understanding that time also all wounds, and there is no
there is no need to get too heals all wounds and need to get too attached to
attached, period. Too attached to therefore there is no need to performance or the notion
performance, too attached to this get too attached to anything of what‘s right or how
egoic notion of what‘s right, you whether it be performance, things should be done.
know. Especially getting too or ego-centered notion of
attached to an agenda—that this what‘s right, or an agenda
is how things should be done. of how things should be
(I: Hm. Interesting.) done.
Yeah.
(I: And if you were to enact some
other planet, which planet would
you kind of resonate with? Which
one stands out in your chart?)
You mean which ones I like?
(I: Which one you identify more
with. Like, you’re consciously
aware of its energies?)
259
57. Well, I already said, you Alex is aware that Alex attributes his capacity
know, Sagittarius kind of Sagittarius energy manifests to express anger in a funny
manifests in my drives—my in his instinctual drives. He and entertaining way to his
instinctual drives. It‘s interesting, also has Sun in Aries, and Mars in Leo. He likes this
with Sun in Aries, most of the Mars in Leo, and he quality about himself.
time—I do identify with Mars in identifies with the later.
Leo, because I love to be funny, Alex vies Mars in Leo as his
you know. And actually I do way to express his anger in
enjoy expressing my anger in an an entertaining way, and he
amusing, entertaining way—kind enjoys being funny and
of channeling the anger that way. channeling his anger in this
So, I like the way that Mars direction.
expresses itself.
(I: So if you were to speak from When invited to speak from
the Mars—I was going to ask Mars point of view, Alex
about Mars, because it’s a humorously repeated that
traditional ruler of your chart— message of not putting too
what would Mars say?) much energy into the small
58. Well, Don‘t sweat the small stuff, and that everything
stuff and the [small] small stuff. was the small staff. When
[laughs] invited to say more, he
(I: [laughs] You seem to have humorously resisted.
similar messages, you know?
[laughs])
Yeah, yeah. It‘s kind of—yeah, I
guess those planets have similar
messages and this kind of
wisdom, really.
(I: So what’s the big stuff—Mr.
Mars? [laughs])
[laughs] [7] it‘s all the small
stuff.
(I: I see. All of it?)
It‘s all—yeah, there is no big
stuff.
(I: Does it have anything else to
say?)
[laughs] Now [you‘re making it?]
angry. [extended laugh]
(I: [laughs] I feel a little bit
silliness in that and anger?)
[laughing]
([laughs] So, what the angry
Mars would say?)
[laughing] Don‘t push me
[laughing] for something I‘m not
260
ready to give you—it‘s silly to

do.
(I: Okay, so there’s some silliness
and some awkwardness in that.
What about the Sun? )
59. Well, the Sun says, just has a Alex expressed his sun as Alex attributes to the Sun in
logo which I don‘t follow a lot of the motto to ―just do it.‖ his chart the drive to do
the time, so it‘s ―just do it,‖ you things.
know—the Nike commercial.
(I: [laughs] Oh, that’s funny. Alex felt completed with the
Okay. Well, I think we can discussion of his chart.
conclude with the discussion of
the chart.
60. Yeah.
(I: Is there anything else you want
to add or maybe something was,
like—maybe we went in a
different direction or something
was unfinished?)
No, I‘m fine. I‘m done. [laughs]
(I: Okay. And just the last
question. It’s a little bit less
experiential and more about your
beliefs. Why do you believe in
astrology and find it interesting
or useful?)
61. Probably insights into my Alex believes in astrology Alex believes in astrology
relationship with other people, because it provides insights because to him it provides
insights into the way other—I into his relationships with insights into the nature of
have done chart comparison, you other people, and insights events and relationships.
know, with other people, into into the past events in his
how people interact. Also insight and other people lives.
into the nature of—into why
certain events happened in my
life or in other people‘s lives.
(I: And why do you believe it’s
true? On what basis do you
believe that it works?)
What works?
(Astrology.)
62. Well, again, retroactively it Alex believes in astrological Alex found validation in
turns to be unfailingly accurate, information because he astrological information by
not just in terms of explaining found that in retrospect it getting unfailingly accurate
events, but I looked at other proves unfailingly accurate. information about past
people‘s personality pattern. I He found more events and character traits.
remember at one point I was understanding of past events
261
doing a chart analysis for a friend and people‘s personality

and I was not 100% certain about patterns. He looked at a
which year she was born. So I chart for his friend but did
tried to do it for two different not know the year she was
years, and for one of the years it born for sure. The chart
said, there is no way that it could which he got did not reflect
be her. It‘s like, it doesn‘t seem to her personality. Later the
reflect any of her personality friend confirmed that Alex
patterns. So then later I came to used an incorrect year.
check with her and said, Well, of
course, she was—yeah, of course
that was off—that was not the
year she was born.
(I: So you verify it experientially Alex confirmed that he Alex verifies astrology with
to some extent, right?) verifies astrology his experience but primarily
63. Yeah. experientially but also sees it as symbolic tool, less
(I: But also sounds like you use it primarily sees it as a frequently a predictive one.
symbolically, right? Because you symbolic tool. He uses a He uses astrology to
are not using it to—well, you’re little pit of predictive understand something in
using a little bit of predictive astrology. Alex did not have retrospect but does not
astrology, but it’s a lot of negative experiences with shape his future behavior
symbolism in there.) astrology, because he uses it based on it, therefore he
Yeah. to understand something in does not see astrology as
(: Something else I wanted to ask. retrospect but not to shape causing something in his
Is there any negative impact that his future behavior. He behavior or being
it had on you—like the knowledge therefore does not blame responsible for the events
of astrology, did it in any way astrology for anything that that happened.
impact your life negatively?) happened.
I don‘t remember any. No.
(I: Mm hm. Okay.)
Again, because I primarily use it
in retrospect; I don‘t use it to
shape my future behavior. I
cannot blame astrology for
anything that happened.
262
Participant 4: Hardy

expressed in coresearcher’s psychological language with reductions with relevancy
language: (Interviewer’s relevancy to the experience to the experience of
comments and questions are of finding meaning finding meaning
italicized)
(I: First of all, tell me how did
you start using astrology? When
did it happen and how did you
come to use it. )
1. Well, I was in Berkeley in the Hardy‘s interest in astrology Hardy‘s interest in astrology
70s. And that could be the short first came about in the appeared in the atmosphere
answer. [laughs] If you wanted atmosphere of Berkley of the of Berkeley in the 70s, this
more detail, my wife at the time 70s. He and his wife were was the time when the
and I were studying tarot cards, studying tarot at the time mystical nature of the
because that was something we because they were interested universe was a popular
were interested in and it was, in the mystical nature of the topic. Hardy studied tarot
you know, all around the universe, as it was a popular cards and as they
mystical nature of the universe topic in Berkley in the 70s. incorporate astrological
was a very hot topic in Berkeley Tarot had astrological symbolism, he got
in the 70s. And, as we studied symbolism that became interested in astrology as
tarot, the astrological symbolism important in Hardy‘s study of well.
of the tarot cards became an tarot cards, and that‘s how he
important topic. And so that was first got introduced to
my first introduction to the astrology. His first tarot
principles of astrology. The one teacher was also very
that taught us tarot was interested in astrology.
interested in astrology very
much also.
2. And then the second Hardy got introduced to Hardy was introduced to the
introduction was I actually had astrology the second time study of astrology for the
gone to college, which was MIT, when he was in college, MIT. second time by a
which was a very technical Another student majoring in knowledgeable college
school, with an economics major economics was very friend. Hardy felt that he
named Roger, who was located interested in astrology and he had an aptitude for
in Berkeley at that time, and exposed Hardy to the charts astrology and developed a
who had really got into the study and specific elements of deep interest in studying it.
of astrology. And he also astrology. Learning more
exposed me to [noise near about astrology, Hardy felt it
microphone] [2] he exposed me was close to his talents and
to specific [?] and things like natural aptitude, and he got
that. And I [noise near fascinated with the study of
microphone] [2] charts. And astrology even more.
then I just found it was
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something that was really suited

to my particular bent—my
talent. So that‘s how I really got
into it, and then I got fascinated
with the study of astrology.
(I: So when did you first use it?
What was the first thing you
understood and learned about
yourself when you started with
astrology?)
3. Well, it‘s a difficult question, Hardy had difficulty Hardy first learning of
because it‘s been 35 years now. remembering how he first astrology enabled him to get
But I would say that probably used astrology for himself, new meaningful information
one of the first things was just to because it happened 35 years about himself.
understand my Moon as well as ago. He remembered that he
the Sun degree, because I think I first learned about his Moon
probably had some idea about degree and sign; he had an
Sagittarius [Sun], but I didn‘t idea what his Sun in
know much about the Moon Sagittarius meant, but he did
degree, and I found I was a Leo not know much about the
Moon, and I found, in fact, that Moon. Hardy learned that his
my Moon degree matched my Moon was in Leo in a degree
mother‘s Sun degree quite that closely matched with his
closely. mother‘s Sun degree.
4. So that was an interesting He realized that he had taken Hardy realized that he had
revelation—that you take on part on a part of his parents‘ taken on a part of his
of your parents as you grow up psychological makeup, which mother‘s psychological
and as perhaps you had come in, was symbolically represented makeup when he noticed
and that we had the same degree by a close conjunction and reflected upon the close
pretty much—very close between his mother Sun and conjunction between his
conjunction between her Sun Hardy‘s Moon. Until he natal Moon in Leo and her
and my Moon. That was one of learned about this natal Sun.
the first things I noticed about symbolism, Alex was not
my personality that I had not tuned into this understanding.
really tuned into before I picked
up on the astrology.
(I: And what did you learn from
that? What is the meaning of this
for you?)
5. Well, I began to learn of the When Hardy was learning When learning astrology,
elements, you know, that fire is about the meaning of Hardy recognized the
an important element in my elements in Western importance of particular
chart. I have a Sagittarius Sun astrology, he realized that he psychological qualities in
and I have a Leo Moon conjunct had a strong fire element in his personality, such as for
a Leo Mars. So a very strong fire his chart due to having three example his need to be
signs. And that was important planets placed in fire signs. active and making things
264
for me to realize that, you know, Reflecting on qualities happen as symbolized by

fire signs are all about going and associated with fire in the fire element in his chart.
going and making things Western astrology, such as
happen, a lot of stamina, a lot of high stamina, enjoying
activity, a lot of joy in doing, activity and making things
you know, and making things happen, Hardy had an
work and going and going and important realization that
going. And that‘s a very good these were important traits of
description. I‘ve always been his personality
very active and wanted to cram a
lot of things into a day—into an
hour.
(I: So would you tell me some
experience in your life or some
situation where you used
astrology to—where astrology
helped you to make more
meaning of it?)
6. Well, I would say that one of One of the first things that Hardy associates having a
the things that very early also Hardy understood about strong sexual component in
that I picked up on was my himself which he had not his personality with his
Scorpio Venus, which I had not recognized until he studied natal Venus placed in
until I studied astrology astrology was that his Venus Scorpio. This manifests as a
recognized as a very strong in Scorpio symbolized a desire for deep relationship.
sexual component to my strong sexual component to
personality that—you know, his personality. In traditional
what we say as astrologers— Western astrology, Venus in
what we say about a Scorpio Scorpio is associated with
Venus is that relationship takes having depth in relationships.
on a very deep aspect.
7. And what I learned from Hardy learned from astrology Hardy learned from
reading about it and from as well as from his own astrological descriptions of
studying astrology was that— experience that Venus in Venus in Scorpio, and
and I believe this to be true— Scorpio cannot have any observed in his experience
that there‘s no such thing as a superficial relationships. All that he cannot have any
superficial relationship. With a relationships go deep for a superficiality in his
Scorpio Venus, it always goes person with Venus in relationships and has a
deep. You know, you‘re always Scorpio. Hardy experienced sexual element to all of his
wanting to know more about the it as a desire to know ever relationships, even the
person—whoever it is, even if more about another person, casual ones. Learning about
it‘s a casual relationship, it goes and having a sexual Venus in Scorpio helped
deep and it could have a sexual component to all of his Hardy to understand his
element to it, so it‘s very relationships, even the casual relationship dynamics
interesting to understand more ones. Hardy started to objectively as well as from
about the dynamics of my understand his ways of the internal, subjective
relationship energy with people relating to others from viewpoint.
265
of all—like I say, of all different objective as well as internal

kind of relationships, including subjective point of view
casual relationship—that based on his astrological
basically the Scorpio Venus, knowledge of Venus in
which also rules my chart, which Scorpio. Hardy considers
is also located in the 1st house in Venus an important planet in
my chart, became something that his chart because it rules his
I began to understand from an Libra rising sign, and is
objective as well as from an located in a 1st house
internal or subjective viewpoint. traditionally associated with
one‘s personality traits.
(I: Can you give me more
concrete examples of how it
works in your life?)
8. Well, as I say about no such Hardy clarifies his Hardy associates his interest
thing as a superficial understanding of how Venus in learning more about
relationship, to be more specific, in Scorpio manifests in his people he meets, even
whenever I meet somebody, it relationships by noticing that during the chance
might be somebody who‘s he is always interested in encounters symbolized by
asking me for money on the people he meets. There is no his Venus in Scorpio need
street, I‘m always interested in such thing as a superficial for in-depth connections.
them. I always want to know relationship for him, even if
more about them. I mean, if I someone just asks money
don‘t have time to do anything from him on the street and
but give them a quarter or the connection is short, he is
whatever, but, you know, I interested in learning more
might— about this person.
9. let‘s say it‘s somebody that I Hardy recently went into a Hardy experiences
meet in another way—on a bus deep conversation with continuously that passing
or, you know, I met somebody another passenger on a train. encounters turn into deep
on a train just the other day and They discussed her life and connections, which he
we got into this very deep how things work out, and attributes to his Venus in
conversation about her life and how astrology can be helpful Scorpio.
[laughs] everything—how that for her to gain more
all works out and how astrology understanding. Again and
could be handy for her to again, Hardy experiences that
understand more about it. I even passing encounters with
showed her a chart. So we had others turn into deep
quite an in-depth connection, connections.
even though we were just
passengers on a train together.
And this happens all the time. I
mean, over and over again
there‘s this passing encounter
with somebody that turns into
quite a depth connection.
266
10. And it‘s true with my close He experiences a lot of Hardy also experiences deep
friends also, that I‘m very loyal, loyalty and deep connections and loyalty to his
which is a Leo sign quality. I connection with his close friends. He associates
have the Scorpio Venus and I close friends as well, his loyalty with the Moon in
have the Leo Moon. And quite a which he attributes to Leo, and the desire for
lot of loyalty and connection Scorpio Venus and connection and depth to his
with people over time—you loyalty to the Leo Moon. Venus in Scorpio. Hardy finds
know that—just a characteristic Hardy finds it interesting these correlations interesting
of that energy and certainly to find an astrological and values that astrology for
something I‘ve observed in correlation to what he allowing him to see his life
myself. So it‘s a very interesting already observed in his from a different perspective.
thing to see the astrological life because it helps to
correlations to what you already make sense out of his
observe in your own life, and to experience.
understand it from another
standpoint that it‘s not just either
the way that I am and not
everybody‘s like that, or what is
that like for other people to
encounter, but to realize that
there‘s sort of a way that it
makes sense in terms of a way
you analyze it.
(I: So how do you use astrology
on a day to day basis for
yourself? I know that you are
professionally connected to
astrology, but how do you use it
yourself?)
11. That‘s a good question. I Hardy does not use astrology Hardy does not use
don‘t always. Certainly there are on a daily basis. He astrology daily to
things that take me by surprise sometimes is taken by understand his experiences
and that I realize that surprise at the events that are or inform choices.
something‘s happening that I happening, or he may Sometimes he may see an
hadn‘t really looked at in my recognize an archetype archetype in his experience
chart as an explanation. Many before he looks in the chart, prior to looking at his chart,
times it will be from the and later he may find the and sometimes after
standpoint of I will recognize the confirmation in the chart, or looking.
archetype before I look and see it can happen in reverse.
it in the chart. I mean, it can go
both ways, you know.
12. If I do look ahead and I say, Sometimes he may use Hardy occasionally tries to
Oh, this is going to be a really astrology to look ahead and predict which day maybe
tough day, because my Mars and predict that a day would be challenging due to a
Pluto are going to be conjunct or challenging due to a certain particular configuration, but
whatever, you know, transiting configuration in the sky. But more commonly he looks to
267
Mars on my Pluto or something Hardy often notices that first astrology after something
like that. But, you know, he experiences something stressful has happened and
oftentimes it‘s the other way challenging and then looks in he needs to gain more
around, where I‘ll see the energy the chart to find out why it is understanding of why it
and I‘ll say, Oh, my gosh, what happening. happened.
a weird day—what‘s happening.
And then I‘ll look. [laughs]
13. And actually it‘s the timing Hardy observes that Hardy does not always find
doesn‘t always work out astrological timing does not astrological timing to
precisely—to me it doesn‘t, always work precisely. For correspond precisely with
because—a really good example example, he had a ―weirdest‖ his experiences. He usually
recently is I had the weirdest day day just before the New finds correlations and
on the Sunday preceding the Moon. Hardy anticipated the explanation to his
Monday New Moon. I knew the new moon would indicate experiences when he looks
New Moon was pretty strong, some strong energy but at his transits at that time
because the New Moon was expected the events to post factum.
actually conjunct Uranus and happen on the day of the new
Mercury both, and I expected it moon which was also
to be kind of a wild day. I conjunct Uranus and
expected that to be true on Mercury. Instead it happened
Monday. Well, Monday wasn‘t one day prior. Hardy had a
such a wild day, but Sunday was lot surprises, and the day was
a very wild day. There were a lot ―wild‖ conjunct Uranus and
of surprises, lot of sudden events Mercury. However that day,
that‘s took a strange turn, and not much happened, the day
then so it was very interesting to before the new moon was a
realize that it could happen even ―wild‖ day in his experience.
the day before—you know, it Generally, he often looks at
doesn‘t have to be right on the the chart to understand some
day. But that‘s an interesting events and experiences after
thing. But, you know, so then I they happened, and finds
look at the chart or the transiting symbolic confirmation of his
chart, typically, you know, and I experiences.
say, Oh, no wonder—that‘s
what‘s going on—yeah.
(I: And what did you see? What
transits were there?)
14. Well, the transits were Hardy had an eventful day Hardy gives an example of
mostly the fact that Uranus and just before the Moon and how his anticipation of a
the Moon were coming together. Uranus were coming to form ―wild‖ day during of the
But of course that happened in a conjunction. At that day the particular aspect between
connection with my ascendant. Moon and Uranus were the Moon and Uranus
Let me see what the aspects aspecting his ascendant by a happened the day before.
were. It made a semisextile to semisextile, and his Saturn
my ascendant, which I think was was transited by the Sun.
a factor. Oh, yes, that‘s right, it Hardy had anticipated that
268
also hit my Saturn. So, between the day of the New Moon
those two, I guess it was conjuncting Uranus would be
stronger than I expected it to be. eventful and significant, but
But the day before. [little laugh] instead it happened for him
(I: Okay.) the day before.
And interestingly, the day before
was when probably the Sun got
to the more close aspect to my
Saturn degree, so maybe that
was how everything strung
along.
(I: Has your usage of astrology
changed over the years that
you’ve practiced it? Like how is
it now versus 30 years ago? Or
is it similar?)
Are you talking about how I use
it for my personal life?
(I: Yeah, I’m interested in your
personal experience of it. Mm
hm.)
15. Well, my understanding of Hardy‘s understanding of Hardy feels that his
astrology has grown quite a bit, astrology has grown over the understanding of astrology
because I‘ve had it as my years, as it turned from a has deepened and become a
profession ever since, well, it‘s a strong hobby into a more profound and subtle
strong hobby every since I passionate interest and a influence on his life as it
started in the 70s and then profession in the 90s. Hardy turned from a hobby in the
became a passion and a feels that his understanding 70s into a profession in the
profession in the 90s. So, since of astrology has become 90s.
then, which is almost 20 years stronger and astrology
now, it‘s been professional. So influences his life in more
that‘s, you know, changed my subtle and profound ways.
understanding of astrology
which has gotten stronger—my
understanding has. And so
therefore, the way it crops up in
my life is more subtle and more
profound perhaps.
16. Of course, one thing that Hardy frequently looks at Hardy frequently uses
happens is frequently when you how two charts line up with astrology to evaluate the
meet somebody and you‘re each other when he is in a potential of a new romantic
having a romantic relationship new romantic relationship. relationship; he looks at the
you look. You know, you try to He has found this to be chart after he has gotten
see how the two charts line up illuminating through the interested in someone.
with each other. So that‘s been years. Usually, he looks at Occasionally, however, he
very illuminating all through the the chart after he has already gets interested in another
269
years—different. Now, I don‘t developed an interest in a person more because he

tend to look at somebody‘s chart person, but sometimes he has sees some meaningful
and then pick them. It usually gotten interested in a person astrological connections
goes the other way around. But because he saw some between their charts.
sometimes I‘ve gotten interested connection between their
partly because after I met them charts.
I‘ve seen the charts line up and
so that makes me—gives
another dimension to my
experience of the other person.
Seeing how things line up.
17. But it‘s a very mystical Hardy finds relationship and Hardy feels astrology gives
thing. I mean, you never know what he sees in the symbolic another dimension to an
exactly how things are going to links between two charts to understanding of the
manifest. It‘s not—to me it‘s not be mystical. There is no particular ways that people
cut and dried, so—but you can single way it can manifest. fit together, but it does not
oftentimes after the fact you can He feels astrology gives manifest in a predictable
see how that particular aspect another dimension to manner, rather he evaluates
manifested. So it just gives you understanding the particular how particular aspects
another dimension to understand ways that people fit together. between two charts
the particular ways that people manifested after some
fit together. Or the other way relationship or situation has
around. begun.
18. I remember a roommate that Hardy remembered a Hardy had an experience
I lived with. Our Mars were situation when he lived with with a roommate whose
exactly—no, I‘m sorry, our a roommate and their Moons Moon was squaring his
Moon degree was exactly square were exactly square to each natal Moon. He had known
each other. And I noticed that other. Hardy met this person about this aspect before they
going in, because I looked at her through an exchange trade started living together and it
chart. I met her through an and they then become prepared him somewhat to
exchange trade that we did, housemates. He realized, their incompatible styles of
where she gave me a reading of looking at their charts living.
her type of—what she did— together, that their Moons
energy work—and then I did a were square. Hardy
reading on her astrology and experienced the situation as
[laughs] so I had her chart, and he and his roommate not
then we started to be housemates ―cooking well‖ together—not
and then I realized, Oh, my gosh matching each other‘s
our [with a little laugh] Moons activity. He compared it to an
are square, so. And sure enough, oil and water interaction, a
we don‘t cook well together. lack of compatibility. His
You know, it‘s like one is doing knowledge of this
one thing, one is doing the other astrological aspect between
thing. Sort of an oil and water their charts helped Hardy to
kind of effect there, the way we be more prepared for this
fit together. So that was situation.
270
something I noticed ahead of

time and I was a little bit more
prepared for than I would have
been if I hadn‘t looked, seen it.
(I: Changing the direction of our
subject a little bit, can you tell
me something about your life
and how you used astrology to
understand something? So,
whether that’s some experiences
of your life or something about
yourself and how do you see that
in your chart. Probably
experience would be good if you
have one, like, if it helped you to
understand something or, you
know, maybe you used astrology
to cope with it better.)
What is the last thing you said?
(I: I’m asking you to
remember—go back for those
last 30 years and remember any
experience in which you used
astrology to understand it. Like
maybe you were dealing with
something stressful, or, I don’t
know, that you used astrology to
make more sense out of the
experience.)
19. Well, I can give you one Hardy used astrology when Hardy used astrology to
very quick example, which was his son was an infant and had understand the timing and
when my son was a child—an high fever one time. He potential seriousness of his
infant—he had a high fever, and looked at his chart and saw infant‘s son fever. His
I looked at the chart and I saw Mars was transiting. In knowledge of astrology
that Mars was transiting and that Western astrology, Mars is reassured him that his son
Mars is associated with fever. So associated with fever. Hardy was going to be recovering
I did know that that was going to realized that the fever was from fever quickly.
be quick. Another—and, you not going to last, because
know, it was reassuring to know Mars‘s effects are considered
that he was having a Mars not long lasting in
transit, because you know what astrological theory. Hardy
the timing of that kind of thing felt reassured that through his
is. Instead of saying, Oh my god, knowledge of astrology he
he‘s got a high fever, maybe it‘ll could anticipate that his son‘s
go on for days, it‘s like, Well, fever was not going to last.
and today‘s the day that Mars is He told his wife about the
271
really directly hitting his chart. transit, but she did not pay
And I told my wife—I said, You attention.
know he‘s just having a Mars
transit [laughing] and she didn‘t
pay much attention. She said
we‘ve got to get his temperature
down, you know, give him cold
baths and stuff to keep his
temperature from getting too
high. But it was helpful to me to
reassure me and to know that it
was a temporary thing—that it
was passing.
20. Another one that‘s quite Hardy had an experience Hardy finds astrology
interesting actually wasn‘t my with a relative whose wife reassuring when he is able
own life but it was directly had left and was very upset to recognize the nature of
related to my own life is I had a about it. Hardy looked at the his or someone‘s experience
relative whose wife left him, and charts of this relative and his and to determine its timing
he was very upset and he was wife and noticed that she was with astrological transits.
stuck with the kids—not stuck having a Uranus transit.
with the kids, but he had kids Hardy concluded that she
with her and he was, you know, was going through a passing
taking care of them and he was stage where she was feeling
upset about what was happening restless and wanted to have
and I looked at the charts. And some experience different
in her case, I saw she was from her normal style of life.
having a Uranus transit. And I He reassured his relative that
was able to tell him and reassure it was likely to pass and gave
him somewhat and say, Listen, the timing when the Uranus
this is a passing thing that she‘s transit would be over for her.
going through right now. She‘s In about a year, the relative
got a lot of restlessness and and his wife got back
she‘s trying different things and together. Hardy felt it was
she‘s departing from her normal reassuring for his relative to
train of events but it will pass. get such a reading and to
And this is something that‘s know the timing of the
right now for her, but not a situation.
permanent shift. You know, this
is something that—and I even
told her some of the timing and
sure enough they got back
together. I think it was about a
year later. And that was, I think,
somewhat reassuring for him
that I could tell him that. You
know, it‘s helpful to see the
272
timing of these things when

things are happening.
21. Another one that was Hardy remembered another
interesting to me, and I don‘t experience when he had a
know that there‘s a very close powerful and characteristic
practical aspect to it, but one dream about his relationship
time I woke from a dream I was with his father and the
having and it was a very wounded place in Hardy that
characteristic dream about my formed as a result of this
father. And a wounded place relationship. The dream was
that I had in myself that related strange and memorable as he
to my relationship with him. remembers it until today.
And it was a very strange and
very powerful dream, and I do
remember it to this day.
22. And, as I woke up, I came When Hardy woke up from Hardy had a powerful
out of the dream thinking, Oh, I his dream he made an dream that reflected his
must have Chiron on my Sun association between his early wounding in
degree, because I knew it was dream and having his natal relationship with his father.
very close. And so when I Chiron together with his Sun, He associated that
looked, I saw Chiron was a symbolism representative experience with a close
exactly on my Sun degree. So of his early wounding. When Chiron Sun conjunction in
there‘s not much of a practical he looked at his chart, he his chart. Astrological
implication there, but it‘s very confirmed that Chiron was symbolism served as an
useful to understand another exactly on his Sun. In this archetypal representation of
side, I should say, of the situation Hardy used his early experience.
archetypes that work. astrological symbolism not to
get new information about
himself, but rather connected
his internal experience and
symbolism of the dream to an
astrological archetype.
23. You know, you can relate it Hardy considers that Hardy values astrology for
to an objective understanding of archetypal meanings of allowing one to view the
what those archetypes really are different astrological aspects archetypal qualities in one‘s
involved with and it‘s very aid in understanding human experience, and to become
helpful to realize that there experience. For instance, he more objective about it. For
area—with Chiron in particular, views Chiron as a symbol of example, Chiron for him
there‘s wounds that you carry the psychological wounding represented a childhood
from childhood that you then formed in childhood but wounding being worked out
work out as you go through your being worked out through through adult life. During
life and all the things that you life. Hardy has learned from the Chiron return at age 50,
read [...?...] are true—you know, astrological literature that the he experienced more
the Chiron Return at age 50 is a Chiron Return at age 50 understanding and had more
time when you can understand signifies time for better capacity to work through
things better and start to really understanding of one‘s the energies that Chiron
273
work with those energies, wounding and a better represents.

especially if you‘ve got a strong capacity to work on it,
Chiron you have to deal with. especially for someone with
an influential Chiron
placement. Hardy observed it
to be true in his experience.
24. It‘s very useful in general for Astrology is useful to Hardy Hardy considers astrology
the perspective it gives you in for the perspective it gives in useful for the perspective it
life. And working with astrology life, and for enabling one to gives, for enabling more
is very useful and that gives you understand problems more objectivity, and giving a
a good perspective to dive into objectively and see them as broader framework for
some of these things and work something that happens to dealing with traumas and
with them objectively without others. The study of human experiences. The
thinking of it as this is your astrology gave a framework study of astrology helped
unique problem that nobody‘s of understanding the traumas Hardy to be stronger
ever had this problem and you‘re and life situations Hardy had psychologically and
just on your own. You know, to deal with. He considered strengthened his
just as the study of psychology that the study of astrology understanding of how to
is helpful, because it gives you a made him stronger develop and work on
framework to begin to psychologically. His internal psychological complexes he
understand some of the traumas growth and work on his has had.
and the situations that you‘ve internal complexes was
had to deal with. And I think it‘s strengthened by his
made me much stronger understanding of astrology.
psychologically. And I‘ve
continued progress with my
particular complexes that
everybody has, whatever they
have. And I think my work with
the complexes that I‘ve had has
been definitely strengthened by
the understanding of the
astrology.
(I: And how did you apply that
understanding? How did you use
the understanding in your life? )
25. Well, I think what you have Hardy feels that one has to be
to do is continually keep alert to continually aware of one‘s
your behaviors and try to behavior and try to
understand them objectively and understand it objectively. He
see what they‘re triggered—how considers that the key is to
they‘re triggered and what observe where one is
their—what they come from. triggered and trace the true
You know, I think one of the causes of one‘s anger or
great lessons that we have as we frustration. Hardy thinks that
go through life is that you‘re most of the time it has to do
274
never angry for the reason you with past situations that were
think you are. And maybe unresolved; rather than
people still don‘t understand this blaming others one needs to
and they think I‘m angry recognize this and deal with
because you made me mad it.
because you did this and it‘s
your fault. Instead of realizing
I‘m angry because I‘ve got some
anger that comes from past
situations that I‘m trying to deal
with.
26. So it‘s completely different This is a different perspective Hardy considers that
perspective on working with on working with oneself looking at the true causes of
yourself. It‘s not a direct which is not directly one‘s behavior is a
connection to astrology. It‘s also connected to astrology but psychological method of
connected to other psychological connects to psychological working with oneself, and
methods, but astrology is one methods, nevertheless astrology can be a very
very good method for being able astrology is helpful too in helpful tool for that, as it
to take a close look at what‘s understanding one‘s allows for symbolic
going on, because you have behavior. The symbols in the representation of the
that—all those symbols right in chart give a good handle on psychological issues and
front of you with the chart. It‘s a what the issues may be. patterns that one has.
very good way to analyze these
things and to get a better grip on
what those particular issues
might be.
(I: Can you give me an
example? You spoke a little bit
about the Venus in Scorpio and
it seems like relationship is
important in your—because you
were giving a few examples with
a relationship involved. But can
you give me some example
where you took some symbol,
right—how did you work with
this? Or, you understood
something and how did you
apply in your life?)
27. Well, that is a good one. I Hardy considered the Hardy understands his
think that the traditional traditional meaning of Venus Venus in Scorpio as
understanding of Venus in in Scorpio as representing the representing the initial
Scorpio is that there‘s a period importance of sexual side in importance of sexual aspect
of time in the early life when a relationship, and in younger in his relationships.
sexual relationship—the sexual years, it could be the most Overtime, he has been
side of relationship becomes the important aspect of it. Over learning to see a fuller
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most important, or is the most time, one can learn how to picture of relationship
important thing initially. And work with this energy and to where sexual element is
then you learn to work with that see a bigger picture of only one factor among
energy and to realize that that‘s relationship in which the others.
only one factor in relationship sexual element is only one
and that, you know, you can‘t factor among others.
approach it from that direction.
You have to make that part of a
bigger picture of relationship.
You know, that‘s something that Hardy has been learning Hardy also associates his
I‘ve gone through, learning a through his life what a experience of being
little bit more about—[with a relationship as a whole engulfed, losing boundaries,
little laugh] well, I‘m still represents and how the and being wrapped into
working on it, but learning what sexual aspect fits into the another person with the
is the relationship really about totality of a relationship. symbolic meaning of his
and how does sex relate to Hardy has connected his natal Venus in Scorpio
that—the whole picture. Also experience of being engulfed, square Pluto aspect.
the whole idea of becoming losing his boundaries and
engulfed in another factor in being wrapped up in the
there, because I not only have other person with having
the Venus in Scorpio but it‘s Venus in Scorpio square to
square to Pluto. So there‘s an Pluto.
issue of engulfment, which is
that boundaries disappear and
you become wrapped up in the
other person and that‘s
something I‘ve had to work with
and learn about as I went
through life in different
relationships.
(I: So, for example, if I say,
Well, Hardy, you’re a
Sagittarius—what does that
mean for you that you’re a
Sagittarius?)
28. Well, that‘s a very light—it‘s Hardy considers being a Hardy associates his sense
very light on the earth. You Sagittarius as being light and of lightness and optimism
know, it corresponds to Jupiter full of joyful optimism. with the symbolic meaning
[rise in?] Saturn. And basically Jupiter is rising in his chart of his Sagittarius Sun, and
there‘s a joyful optimism, and Hardy associates this Jupiter, the ruler of
there‘s a sense that no matter with his optimistic sense that Sagittarius, rising in his
what happens you can work any circumstance or chart.
through it. These are the positive challenge can be worked
sides of it, through.
29. and then the side that‘s not On the negative, there is no On the negative side, Hardy
so easy sometimes is that there‘s recognition of limitations. experienced his Sagittarian
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not a recognition of the Hardy has been learning how energy as being scattered
limitation that may be there to say ―no,‖ rather than and liable to being side
inherently, so that you‘re always attempting to do too much tracked from the more
trying to do too much and you and getting engaged into fundamental priorities that
don‘t get on time. You know, many things that side track require his attention. He
you‘re missing deadlines, him from getting considers this an important
because you‘re all over the place fundamental priorities done. lesson. He is learning to be
doing all these other things. And He attributes this quality to able to prioritize and say
so being able to say ―no‖ is very his Sagittarian part, and ―no‖ to less significant
important to being able to make having Jupiter on the activities.
a time schedule, because you ascendant.
have to say no to all the things
that could prevent you from
getting the fundamental
priorities done. So that‘s
something I‘ve been working
with for a long time. And that‘s
partly the Sagittarian nature of
my personality. Also with
Jupiter on the ascendant, so—
(I: And if I were to say, You’re
Moon is in Leo, what does that
mean to you?)
30. Well, that means that ego is Hardy associates his Moon in Hardy associates his desire
a big part of what I do. Being on Leo with having his ego for attention and recognition
stage is important. Getting the involved in what he does, the by other people, and his
recognition of people. That‘s importance of attention and generosity and enjoyment of
also a certain amount of joy and recognition from people. He being and doing in the
just being—a joy of being in the also feels it represents the joy world, with the symbolic
world and doing in the world. and enjoyment of being and meaning of his natal Moon
There‘s a lot of pride involved. doing in the world. Hardy in Leo.
There‘s a lot of—maybe a lot of connects his generosity to his
giving and generosity too is part Leo Moon. In his chart the
of the way I do things. And I Leo Moon and Sagittarius
think that comes partly from the Sun both fire signs form a
Leo. The Leo and the Sag work trine, and they build on each
together. They‘re both fire signs other.
and they—it turns out the Moon
and the Sun are directly trine
each other, so they build on each
other.
(I: And how do you experience
that in your life? What’s the
experience of that trine?)
31. Hm. Well, I‘ve always been Hardy connects his Hardy attributes his
lucky. I‘ve always had a good experience of being lucky experience of being lucky,
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feeling about things and in spite with the beneficial trine his internal optimism, and
of various negative things that aspect between his natal Sun his perseverance in face of
happened I‘m always able to and Moon. He has always difficulties to his Sun Moon
kind of smile my way through it had optimism, fortitude and trine in fire signs. He feels
and just kind of—I‘ve got a lot courage to try new things in that this represents his
of fortitude and courage to try spite of the difficulties or courage and fortitude in the
new things and to keep going in setbacks. Hardy connects his face of challenges.
spite of apparent difficulties. fortitude and courage to his
Just keep going. And I guess I coming from pioneer stock
come from some pioneer stock and recognizes that a part of
and I think that that‘s part of my his psychological makeup is
makeup and that, you know, is to keep going and make
also that courageous fortitude, things happen no matter what
you know, to just keep on going the obstacles are. This part of
and make it happen, make it his nature is reflected in his
work no matter what, and to just chart.
make the best of things. You
know, so that‘s in my nature and
it reflects in the chart.
(I: So I’m going to shift gears a
tiny bit and ask you what do you
think—what is the connection
between astrology and the sense
of meaning for you? Do you
have a sense of like, is the
universe meaningful or
meaningless and what is the
connection of astrology to that
in your life?)
32. Well, I think that‘s a very To Hardy the connection Hardy‘s understanding of
profound issue. Good question. between his study of the life‘s meaning often
And I do think that a lot of my astrology and a sense of comes from his study and
understanding of the meaning of meaning is profound. Much work with astrology. Hardy
life comes through my work of his understanding of life‘s grew up in a Christian
with astrology, because I feel meaning develops through household but was
that the Christian era is ending his work with astrology. disenchanted with the
and that even though I was Hardy grew up in a Christian institution of church and the
raised in a Christian household household but it did not mean belief system of his
that didn‘t ever mean very much much to him. The church as forefathers. He did not find
to me—the church especially as an institution did not attract it to be a guiding force in
an institution doesn‘t mean very him as a guiding force. He his life.
much to me. I respect Jesus as feels this is true of many
an avatar a lot more than I people in Western culture
respect the institution of now. Hardy has much more
Christianity that has come up in respect for Jesus as an avatar,
its wake. So I didn‘t have—and I but he does not respect the
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think this is true of very many institution of Christianity.

people in our Western culture Hardy feels disenchanted
right now. I didn‘t have a lot of with the belief systems of his
signposts to guide me having forefathers, and as a result,
been disenchanted with the did not take guidance from it
belief-systems that my in his search for meaning and
forefathers gave me. understanding of his life.
33. So I had to find my own way Hardy had to find his own Hardy had to find his own
and I think it‘s important, system of meaning, and he system of meaning, because
though, that there is meaning in considers this important he believes in the ultimate
this life. And I do feel that because to him life is meaningfulness of life. Part
there‘s meaning in this life. And meaningful. Part of this of this belief evolved from
partly what gives me that feeling belief evolved from his his studies of astrology and
of the meaning of life is my studies of astrology and his seeing all circumstances as
studies of astrology and my studies of how spiritually meaningful and having a
studies of how the universe guided efforts bring results higher purpose. Hardy
seems to chime with the efforts that are meaningful and not considers his philosophy
of people as they open coincidental. Hardy believes powerful, useful, and
themselves to a spiritual that everything has a higher largely rooted in his work
direction. So I believe there‘s no purpose and an ultimate with astrology.
coincidences. I believe benefit. Even a difficult
everything happens for a experience, like a stroke, may
purpose. If somebody has a have a higher purpose behind
stroke, it might be there‘s a it and is ultimately beneficial.
higher purpose involved and Hardy considers this
they can benefit from it. So philosophy powerful and
that‘s a very powerful, useful useful in his life, and a lot of
philosophy and works for me. it is rooted by his work with
And a lot of it comes through astrology.
my work with astrology.
(I: And how does astrology
inform you of those? It gives you
some sort of map? )
34. It partly gives a map, but the Hardy considers that Hardy views astrology as a
main thing, I think, is that just astrology‘s existence is system that expands purely
the fact that it exists. Because on meaningful because it materialistic or physical
the one hand it makes no sense. expands purely materialistic views on the Universe. The
You know, there‘s views. On one hand, there is archetypal meaning
understanding of the physical physical knowledge about the associated with each planet
universe and where the physical planets and their movement, in astrology provides a
bodies of the solar system have on another hand there are system that implies a
originated and how they just archetypal meanings meaningful Universe.
move in various orbits, and yet, associated with Venus, Mars,
again, we can turn around and Jupiter, Saturn, and so on.
we can make meaning out of Hardy considers that such
that. So when we try to find a archetypal meanings show
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meaning and we see Venus and that the universe is

we see Mars and they have meaningful and transcends
specific archetypal significance purely physical or
for us and all the others—Jupiter materialistic understanding.
and Saturn and so on—it shows
us that the universe is
meaningful beyond what we
might have expected if we look
at it from a materialistic
standpoint. So that‘s very
important.
(I: So, you see them as
archetypes—the planets as
archetypes, right?)
35. Well, sure, that‘s the way Hardy views planets as Hardy views planets as
Western astrology works is to correlates of psychological symbolic correlates of
understand the planetary archetypes, a correlation psychological archetypes—
symbols as correlated to the embraced by Western a view embraced by modern
psychological archetypes, as astrology and informed by Western astrology and
Jung was able to point out in his the work of Carl Jung. Hardy informed by the work of
work. So that there‘s an anima gives as an example that each Carl Jung. As an example,
inside every male psyche, man has anima—or females Hardy points out that
there‘s a female presence that presence in his psyche anima—a term coined by
can be symbolized by Venus and symbolized by Venus in his Jung, representing the
inside of every feminine chart, and masculine female aspect in the male
psychology there‘s also a presence called the animus psyche—is symbolized by
masculine presence called the (present in man or women) is Venus in a man‘s chart.
animus, which can be symbolized by Mars. Hardy Conversely, animus—the
symbolized by Mars. So that views astrological symbols as male aspect in a woman‘s
there‘s a way that we can helpful in relating to specific psyche, is symbolically
understand—and men—the psychological archetypes. represented by Mars in her
other archetypes as well of the chart.
planets, we can understand them
as relating to specific
psychological archetypes.
(I: So how do I want to phrase
that? I want to make the
connection to your life, because
we’re going into specifics and
then into broader discussion.)
36. And how does that relate Hardy‘s study of astrology Hardy‘s study of astrology
back? and depth psychology has and depth psychology
(I: Yeah.) influenced the evolution and formed his profound life‘s
Well, I think it forms a more formation of a complex and philosophy, which informs
complex philosophy of life that profound philosophy of life his view that one of the
has evolved. I mean, I‘m in the which he now has. It informs meanings of human life is to
280
wisdom stage of my life now, Hardy‘s view that one of the evolve. Based on this
the other stage. And my purposes of human life is to understanding, Hardy is
understanding of the way the evolve. As a result of this striving to better his self-
universe works and the way understanding, he is ever understanding and his
individual human psychology striving to understand actions in the world.
works is very profound and has himself better and to evolve
been influenced by my studies of in how he relates to himself
both depth psychology and and to others, and how he
astrology as I‘ve gone along. So manages his own life.
that it does inform my viewpoint
on what we‘re up to—that we‘re
here to evolve. Humans are here
to evolve, and so I find in my
own life that I‘m constantly
striving to understand myself
better and to evolve in the way I
do things and to evolve in the
way I relate to other people and
how I relate to myself and how I
manage my own life.
37. So I‘m always—as opposed As opposed to some people Hardy experiences his life
to maybe some people that don‘t who live their lives ―going as more meaningful and
have this sense of purpose and along‖ without a deeper fulfilling because he has a
this sense of meaning and just sense of purpose, Hardy has a purpose, as opposed to
think they‘re going along and sense of meaning in his life. people who just ―go along‖
they‘re doing their job and He believes that everything with their lives.
they‘re getting paid and then he does is for a purpose, and
they‘re having pleasure and then that all people are here to
they‘re going to die, I mean, not evolve and help each other in
very fulfilling, you know, that process.
38. but I believe that everything Hardy believes that all his Hardy feels a great sense of
I do is for a purpose and we‘re does is for a purpose, and he purpose in spreading the
here to help each other evolve considers one of his greater word about astrology,
and so I try to spread a better purposes to be inspiring inspiring people and helping
understanding of what life‘s people, spreading the word them to understand
about. That‘s what I‘ve done in about astrology to others, and astrology better.
my recent years, since I‘ve been making it more
professional—the last maybe 15 understandable. Hardy has
years or so. I‘ve been able to get been doing this in the last 15
my own words out to people and years, since he became a
to inspire people and to help professional astrologer.
with the understanding of
astrology and what astrology‘s
about and to make it more
understandable to many people.
So that‘s been a great sense of
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purpose to do that.
(I: So you kind of bring
astrology—you make it more
accessible to the larger amounts
of people—more available.)
39. Yes, that‘s certainly Hardy tries to make astrology
something I‘ve tried to do. more accessible to the larger
(I: Mm hm. Like, what other numbers of people.
purpose—what sense of purpose
for your life you have? Is that
the main sense of—your
professional purpose or are
there others?)
40. Oh, well, definitely being a Hardy considers his being a Hardy finds another sense
father and a grandfather is a father and grandfather an of purpose and meaning in
great sense of purpose. And experience that fills him with his experience of being a
being a good partner is a good— a great sense of purpose. He father and a grandfather,
great sense of purpose. So, I views human relationships as and in his effort to
mean, I think human relations the real key to the meaning of understand the meaning of
are the real reason we‘re here, human life. He strives to his life through
and then trying to understand understand this meaning and understanding his
our life from the standpoint of help others to realize it too, relationships. Hardy
what the meaning of life might and that also gives a sense of considers relationships as
be and how to help both our purpose in his life. one of the keys to finding
family and others understand life‘s meaning.
that is—yeah, it gives me a
sense of purpose in my life.
(I: Is there something in your
chart that you don’t
understand?)
41. Hm . . . well, you know, I Hardy probed his Traditional astrology
think I automatically went to the understanding of the 12th considers 12th house
12th house when you said that, house in his chart, when symbolic of unconscious,
because that‘s traditionally asked to talk about hard to understand, or
where [little laugh] the things symbolism in his chart that invisible psychological
that you have trouble he did not understand. patterns, a ―self-undoing.‖
understanding, and I was trying Traditionally, the 12th house In contrast, Hardy felt that
to decide like if I did quite well symbolizes the place of he has a good understanding
understand—I do understand unconscious, hidden of his 12th house
parts of my 12th house very energies, often hard to symbolism.
well, so I guess that‘s not true. understand. Hardy, however,
had a good sense of the
symbolism of his natal 12th
house.
42. I guess one thing that I‘m Hardy is still working on Following the existing
still trying to understand is understanding what Neptune astrological view, Hardy
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Neptune, but I think everybody in his natal chart represents. identifies Neptune as having
has that issue because Neptune Traditionally Neptune is ―slippery‖ and evasive
is so slippery. But, you know, considered ―slippery‖ and a qualities He is continuously
Neptune can be a planet of planet of illusion, of dreams trying to get a better
illusion. It can be dreams that that never materialize in understanding of Neptune‘s
never find reality and it can be reality, and of escapism, but meaning in his life.
escapism, but it can also be a also a symbol of the mystical
mystical side of life to side of life and an experience
understand the intensity of other of other planes of existence.
plans of existence. So I‘d say Hardy finds himself
that was an ongoing mystery to continuously trying to get a
try to figure out what the heck better understanding of what
that is, and is to work with it and Neptune represents in his
certainly that‘s something that chart.
I‘m always trying to get a better
understanding of.
43. It is powerful in my chart, Neptune is significant in his Hardy considers Neptune
because it relates to both my sun chart, because it has powerful in his chart
and my Moon which are on that astrological relations because of its position in his
trine. It‘s at the midpoint of the (aspects) with both Hardy‘s chart. Hardy associates his
trine. So Neptune is definitely a Moon and Sun. Neptune natal Neptune with his
large part of my make-up and occupies the midpoint of the tendency to idealism,
there‘s escapism, there‘s trine between the Sun and escapism, and some self-
idealism and there‘s sort of self- Moon. Hardy understands deception. At the same time,
deception that goes on and Neptune as symbolic of his he attributes to Neptunian
illusions. And it‘s very tendency to escapism, influences his understanding
interesting, because it‘s also a idealism and some self- of higher planes of reality
great deal of understanding of deception and illusions. At and the significance of
higher planes of reality. And the same time, he attributes music and poetry in his life.
music is important in his understanding of higher
understanding those things— planes of reality and the
poetry. significance of music and
poetry in his life, to
Neptunian influences.
44. So it‘s a very powerful part As Hardy considers Neptune Hardy understands
of my chart that I do understand influential in his chart, he Neptunian influences in his
to an extent. You know, I can‘t does understand its meaning life to an extent, as he
say no, I have no idea about that. to an extent. At the same considers Neptune
But it is something that I think is time, he is continuously influential in his chart. He is
an ongoing mystery to try to trying to understand what continuously looking to
penetrate as to what really that is Neptunian influence really is distinguish what Neptunian
and what the correct balance is and to find the correct influences really are. He
between illusion and escape and balance of being in the real- seeks a balance of being in
not being on this real-world world, while keeping the real world while
plane on the one hand, and then awareness of other planes of maintaining awareness of
being in the real world but reality as opposed to other planes of being
283
somehow being aware of the escaping from the real word without escaping into
other planes of reality at the into the state of illusion. illusion.
same time. It‘s definitely an
ongoing mystery, I would say.
(I: That’s very interesting.) Hardy gave the above
45. That‘s one answer to your example as one of the
question. possible answers to a
(I: Mm hm. That’s very question what he did not
interesting. Thank you for understand in his chart.
sharing that stuff. That helps me,
too, to understand my Neptune a
little bit better actually.
[laughs]
Let’s see. So is there something

in your chart that fascinates you
the most? Like, I don’t know,
that you find most exciting or
lucky or fortunate?)
46. Well, I‘m pretty darn excited Hardy has a stellium Hardy‘s understanding of
about my little stellium at the consisting of Mars, the astrology and a particular
very top of the chart. I‘ve always Moon, and Pluto all together astrological configuration in
thought of it as my entrepreneur on top of his chart. He is his chart (Mars, the Moon,
stellium because I have Mars, excited about this placement, and Pluto positioned
the Moon, and Pluto all together and explains that any planet together on top of his chart),
at the top of the chart and or planets positioned at the in particular, helped him to
anything near the top of the top of one‘s chart are identify and reaffirm the
chart is very prominent in life prominent and express active and independent
and shows in activity and it themselves in activity, energy he exerts in his
shows in prestige and it shows in prestige and work. Hardy professional life, by always
work. And so having all that finds that having his energy doing ―his own thing‖ in a
energy up there, I think I‘m in that area, he is nonconformist, iconoclastic
constantly getting out there and continuously getting out and way.
doing my own thing and doing his own thing which is
iconoclastic in the sense of not iconoclastic and different
being subject to the normal way than the norm. He finds the
of doing things. I‘m always kind expression and understanding
of doing my own thing. [laughs] of his stellium fascinating.
And so, I do find it fascinating.
47. I am rather proud—you Hardy considers himself Hardy understands his natal
know, Leo is pride and the proud and attributes this moon in Leo as symbolic of
Moon in Leo—proud of myself quality to the Moon in Leo him being proud of himself
for making my own way in the symbolism: he is proud of for making his own way in
world. I have this funny feeling himself for making his own the world. Hardy enjoys
that comes over me every time I way in the world. He has a presenting and selling the
do a conference, which is that I positive ―funny‖ feeling, astrological software he
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fly into town to do this every time he participates in created. He is proud for
conference and I have in my the conferences where he being able to help people
luggage that I‘m carrying on the takes the astrological get new insights into their
plane I have a booth which I put software that he created. He lives and give them tools for
together when I get there and flies to different towns, sets such exploration.
make a nice environment to up a nice environment and Knowledge of astrology
demonstrate the astrology shows his software to people. reaffirms his self-
software that I created, and then When people have knowledge and gives him a
I show the astrology software to epiphanies with the new symbolic tool to expand it.
people, and sometimes I have insight and understanding
major epiphanies with people about their lives they did not
where they see things about their have before, Hardy is
life they didn‘t know before. fascinated. He enjoys having
And that‘s fascinating. And someone buy his software
sometimes I sell the software to and use it to explore
somebody that wants to be able astrology and get new
to explore these things insights on their own.
themselves and they‘re very
happy to get it.
48. And so I do these things— Hardy travels to different
these activities and do my little conferences in astrology or in
traveling astrology show that I consciousness, like at the
put together in this booth, IONS (Institute of Noetic
whether it‘s—sometimes it‘s an Sciences) or Bioneers, the
astrology conference, but conferences where people are
sometimes it‘s a conference in exploring the meaning of
consciousness. Like the IONS— their life and how to change
Institute of Noetic Sciences, things socially.
things like that—all these
different—of Bioneers—all
these different conferences that
go on, where people are trying to
explore what the meaning of life
is and how to change things
socially.
49. And so [laughs] when I fly Hardy gets great satisfaction Hardy enjoys what he does
out of town, I always have a from going to different in his life professionally,
great deal of satisfaction, and I conferences and sharing his and he associates his ability
just feel like I have created this work with others, while to create such experiences
thing. I‘ve flown into town, set breaking even on the trip for himself with the
up this booth, taken the money expenses by selling his symbolic meaning of the
for the software and broken even software. He attributes his Moon Mars and Pluto
on the whole trip and I haven‘t ability to do so to his natal placed together on top of his
lost money, but I‘ve still had a Moon Mars and Pluto chart, and Uranus in the 8th
marvelous experience and I‘ve stellium, and to other house. Knowledge of his
been able to share my work with symbolism in his chart, such astrological placements
285
people. And it‘s quite satisfying. as Uranus in the 8th house. helps him to identify and be
So I think that‘s directly—you Uranus symbolizes astrology proud of his qualities and
can attribute that to this stellium according to modern Western talents.
and other factors in my chart, astrology and the 8th house
too, of course: the Uranus, represents depth connection
which is the astrology planet in and psychology among other
the 8th house of depth things. Hardy is happy with
connection, psychology—you what he has chosen to do
know, so. But I‘m pretty happy with his life.
about what I‘ve chosen to do
with my life, so—
(I: What fascinates you about
astrology now? What’s the most
interesting and new thing that
you are working on now?)
50. Oh, I guess you do know I‘m Hardy is working on Hardy is working on
working with the new planet. discovering and attributing discovering and attributing
There‘s an asteroid beyond Pluto meaning to the newly meaning to a newly
that was named in 2006, and so discovered asteroid Eris, by discovered asteroid Eris by
this is the equivalent of this time observing historical and observing historical and
in the 1930s when Pluto was social occurrences of our social occurrences of our
discovered and meaning started times and correlating them times and correlating them
to be attributed to it. There are with the archetypal meaning with the archetypal meaning
some people who are able to of Eris. He explained that of Eris. This is how
attribute meanings to Pluto that is how meaning was meanings are attributed to
almost right away. It was during attributed to Pluto when it newly discovered planets.
the time of the ascension of the was discovered in 1930s.
Nazis in Germany and there was Plutonian energies were
a lot of Plutonic activity that was associated with the war, the
going on, including World War ascension of the Nazis and
II, including the atomic bomb. the creation of the atomic
So these things became readily bomb, as these were events
obvious, and the archetype of correlating to the times of
Pluto began to be fleshed out Pluto‘s discovery.
and now it‘s a standard part of
Western astrology and very
important in our use of it.
51. Well, the asteroid beyond The new asteroid beyond Hardy is interested in
Pluto that was discovered and Pluto was discovered in 2006 working on attributing
named in 2006 which is called and is called Eris. Hardy meaning to the newly
Eris, is a brand new archetype believes it is an important discovered asteroid Eris, as
that hasn‘t been incorporated new archetype which will he believes it will become
into Western astrology yet, but I become major in modern the next significant
firmly believe that it‘s the next Western astrology, and archetype in Western
major archetype in Western Hardy is interested in astrology.
astrology So, it‘s quite working on discovering its
286
interesting to work with that. meaning.

(I: Can you tell me what
meaning you attribute to it?)
52. Yes, I attribute feminine Hardy attributes feminine Hardy attributes to Eris
warrior energy, which is in the warrior energy to the newly feminine warrior energy,
service of higher principles. So discovered asteroid Eris. This which he understands as a
that it‘s somebody that will fight is an archetype of fighting to sometimes violent fight
to the death [little laugh] and the death, often in a violent against stagnation or
sometimes in a violent and way, to get out of what is injustice.
bloodthirsty way for what they perceived as unjust or unfair
believe to be necessary to either situation. To Hardy, Eris
get them out of a trap or to represents a strong,
handle a situation that‘s unjust principled stand for what is
and unfair to other—to certain needed.
elements of society. So, it‘s a
very strong principled stand for
what‘s needed or necessary.
53. And the reason it‘s a To Hardy the feminine Hardy considers feminine
feminine warrior as opposed to a warrior is differs from the principle of Eris as not only
masculine warrior, which is of more combative masculine fighting for justice but being
course represented by Mars as warrior (symbolized by rooted in following the laws
more of a combative element is Mars) by being firmly rooted of spiritual evolution. Such
that the feminine is firmly rooted in the concept of spiritual a fight is not combative, to
in the concept of a spiritual evolution. Hardy considers Hardy, but has a purpose of
evolution. It‘s not just about this as more than taking care making changes that are
making sure that everything is of unjust situations, but also aligned with higher
taken care of. It‘s also about aligning actions with the principles of how things
making sure that everything is higher principles of Good. should be.
lined up spiritually with the way
things are supposed to be with a
higher principle.
54. So it‘s very interesting to see Hardy is intrigued by the Hardy is intrigued by and
those two ideas combine connection between the idea continues working with
together the idea of higher of a higher spiritual understanding the
spiritual principle and the idea of principles and the idea of a archetypal meaning of Eris
a warrior for that spiritual warrior for that spiritual which he sees as a feminine
principle. You do see quite a bit principle. He refers to the warrior fighting for justice
of the religious iconography, Eastern religions having from the point of view of
especially in the Eastern iconography and symbols spiritual evolution. Hardy is
religions. Not so much representing this principle interested in Eris also
represented in the Western much more often than do because it is prominent in
religions, although I think that Western religions. In the his own chart.
all of the energy you see West, Hardy sees this
expressed in the fight for what‘s archetypal energy as
right, you know, which is a great expressed in the fight for
important archetype in many freedom, establishing things
287
places in America, for example, they way they should be,

the American ideal of, you battling for what is right. He
know, you have to fight for your considers that mythological
freedom and to establish the way ideas of battling for what is
things should be. You really feel right related to the archetype
a strong connection with, you of Eris—the feminine warrior
know, battling for what‘s right principle. Hardy continues
and all this—the fight against working with understanding
communism and so on—all Eris‘s archetypal meaning.
these mythological ideas that
float to the surface of various
cultures through time are related
to this archetype of the feminine
warrior principle. So, it‘s very
interesting. I continue working
with it. It‘s strong in my own
chart as well. So—
(I: And how do you experience it
in your chart—or in your life?)
55. Well, you know, I had that In Hardy‘s chart, Eris Hardy considers Eris an
trine—my trine between completes a grand trine in important archetype in his
Sagittarius Sun] and the early fire between the moon, Mars chart and sees it manifested
degree of Leo. And then the and the Sun in early degrees in his battles for justice
Moon is at 5 degrees of Leo, of Sag, and Eris is at 5 while being aligned to the
Mars is at 2 degrees of Leo, the degrees of Aries. Hardy finds Higher Purpose. The
Sun is at 2 degrees of Sag. And it not surprising that he is reflection on Eris‘s meaning
Eris in my chart is at 5 degrees fascinated and interested in helps him in self-
of Aries. So it completes a grand this archetype, as he sees it understanding and seeing
trine on the chart. So not manifesting strongly in his larger cultural processes that
surprising that I got so interested life, and now as a new he associates with Eris‘s
and so involved in this new cultural astrological symbolism.
archetype. I‘ve created the glyph archetype.
for it. It‘s becoming a standard
glyph and just fascinated with
the whole energy of it in my life
as well. I mean, I‘ve been a
battler [with a laugh] in my life.
And just seeing how that
manifests—how that‘s so
represented as a culture.
Interesting.
(I: It sounds like you sort of
make connections between the
archetypes—planetary
archetypes and the cultural
experiences and phenomena. Is
288
that right?)
56. Yes, you can certainly do Hardy confirmed that he Hardy considers the
that. I mean, it‘s very good to observes cultural experience astrological chart an
analyze the chart of the United and makes correlations with important source of
States from July 4, 1776 and see the planetary archetypes. As archetypal information that
where things line up. You can an example, he pointed out could be helpful in
get a tremendous amount of that if one wanted to understanding not only the
information about the American understand the American qualities of individuals, but
culture from that study. culture better, he or she could the culture of countries,
find a lot of information by such as the United States.
analyzing the chart of the
United States, traditionally
created on July 4, 1776,
when the Declaration of
Independence was signed.
(I: But do you use it that way or
not? I’m interested in—)
57. Very much so, yeah. I write Hardy writes his monthly
about it. Every time I do a column by analyzing and
monthly column, I talk about the discussing how planetary
spiritual situation and where the archetypes affect individual
planetary archetypes line up and signs. He finds that people
how it affects individual signs. are mostly interested in this
And that‘s the majority of what I kind of astrological
have to put out there. It‘s what information.
mostly people want to tune into,
58. but I have a little political He also writes a political Reflection on astrological
section that I do, which is now section where he discusses transits and occurrences like
being called Zodiactivism how the political situation in the recent New Moons
[laughs]. A blog that I have that the US is connected with the which happened in the
has the political stuff and we‘re astrological transits and middle of the month and
keeping it separate from the rest archetypal influences. coincided with important
of the column that I do. But I Recently the middle of the events in the world, enable
always do a little bit of it—bit month has had powerful New Hardy to view such events
about the United States‘ chart Moons, which Hardy views and occurrences in a larger
and where things are headed and as influential energy. As an symbolic context.
how the middle of the month— example, he discussed the
lately it‘s been the middle of the earthquake in Haiti and the
month that is the strongest American response to it.
energy, because that‘s where
these powerful New Moons have
been hitting. Every New Moon
has been very powerful the last
few months, so— The middle of
the month is when things have
been exciting. Like, for example
289
the earthquake in Haiti and the

American response to it was a
big factor—the middle of, let‘s
see—what month was that?
[laughs] Was that January?
(I: Yeah, I think so.) Hardy continues his example
59. Or February. I forget. by saying that all recent
Anyway, recently. months from January to April
(I: I think that January.) have been powerful because
Yeah, but the middle of the of the New moon.
month has been just [?]. Mid-
January, mid-February, mid-
March, even mid-April—very
powerful.
(I: So how do you feel—I wanted
to ask you why you think
astrology works, but I’m more
interested in how do you
experience that astrology works.
Obviously you experience that it
works if you’re using it for many
years, right? But what convinces
you—how do you think it
works?)
60. Oh, I see. Well, I think it Hardy believes astrology Hardy follows Jung‘s idea
works on the basis of works on the basic of of synchronicity in his view
synchronicity, which is the synchronicity – a principle of why astrology works.
principle that Jung described— first discussed by Jung. Hardy views the correlation
that coincidental events at a Synchronicity ascribes between the chart and
certain time necessarily can have meaningful connection to events as meaningful but
a meaning without it being a coincidental events, without not causal.
causal relationship between there necessarily being any
them. And you wouldn‘t want to causal relationship between
say that if I look at somebody‘s them. As an example, Hardy
chart and I see that they had a discusses that someone may
difficult childhood and they had have a difficult childhood
a problem with their father, you and problems with their
wouldn‘t want to say that the father, without there being
chart caused that problem with any causal relation between
the father, and you wouldn‘t their chart and the
want to say that the problem problematic family relations.
with the father caused the chart The relations could not have
to be created, because the chart caused the chart to be
was created before those created, because the chart
problems even worked was created before the
themselves out. But yet there‘s a problems manifested.
290
connection. Nevertheless, there is still a

connection between the two.
61. So Jung called it an acausal For Hardy, there is a spiritual Hardy‘s view of astrology is
connection between events. And connection between the chart that of a symbolic and a-
he called it the principle of and events or personal casual system. This view
synchronicity, which was very qualities. It is not a cause- convinces him that the
profound—great thinker, Jung. and-effect correlation. Unlike Universe is not purely
So that‘s the principle that we some people who like to mechanistic or materialistic
use to explain it. And to me it‘s think planetary influences but has spiritual connections
a spiritual connection. It has no impact their DNA and and Laws.
connection in causal developing fetus, Hardy
relationship. Some people like to thinks it is all symbolic.
think that they‘re raised from the Symbolic connections to him
planets somehow—kind of mean they are not
created the DNA of the mechanistic or materialistic,
developing fetus and then the but they do point out that the
moment of the first breath. But I Universe we live in is more
think it‘s all symbolic. We live than simply mechanistic.
in a universe—it tells me that we This is an important and
live in a universe that‘s much powerful realization for
different than we think it is, Hardy.
where there are symbolic and
spiritual connections between
events that it‘s not a simple
mechanistic and materialistic
world. So that‘s very powerful.
62. And then my evidence that it Hardy finds evidence of these Hardy feels that a skillful
works is all around me, because symbolic correlations astrologer can find a lot of
whenever you look at a chart, if everywhere in his life, and he meaningful information in
you‘re skilled with it and you‘ve considers that by being the individual and country
done the studies, you do see the skillful with astrology, one charts. He finds evidence of
correlation. The correlations are can get a lot of meaningful astrology‘s meaningfulness
everywhere. So it‘s quite information from working in his experience by
profound the meaning you can with individual charts or reflecting on astrological
get from working with country charts. archetypes and making
individual charts or even parallels to life.
working with the chart of a
country, like the United States‘
chart.
(I: Have you been ever using—
has astrology been negatively
used in your life somehow? Was
there any negative effect in using
it?)
63. I would have to say no. Like Hardy does not believe Hardy does not consider
any tool, it can be used for any astrology can be used that astrology may be used
291
purpose and really it‘s a higher negatively and he has not negatively in one‘s life, and
purpose always to try to find out experienced it in his life. He he has not had such
more about the universe and to believes that even if experience. This is based on
try to do the right thing and to astrology is misused or used Hardy‘s belief that
evolve—spiritually evolve. for evil purposed, in the ultimately all things good
There have been evil men that larger scheme of things the and bad serve the Higher
have used astrology for evil Universe is moving in a spiritual purpose, which is
purposes. But really the universe positive direction. So, even that the Universe is moving
is moving in a positive direction evil or negative uses serve in a positive direction all the
all the time, and even the evil some spiritual purpose. time.
that men do has a spiritual Eventually everyone will
purpose and a positive realize their true destiny;
motivation. Eventually we‘ll all even mistakes serve that
realize where we‘re going and purpose.
we‘ll get a little bit higher in our
understanding and that‘s partly
through the mistakes that we
make that we find that.
(I: So it sounds like you did not
misuse it, but misuses are
possible, you’re saying, but you
did not necessarily misuse it or
experience it negatively on
yourself.)
64. I don‘t think astrology can Hardy does not think that
be misused. I mean, it has been a astrology can be misused. It
factor in the actions of people is not always used in the best
that are not always in the best motivation but, in these
motivation or towards the light. cases, it is not astrology that
But that doesn‘t mean that is misused, but the energy of
astrology‘s being misused. It‘s the people involved. People
being used, it‘s just the people may operate from a narrower
are misusing their own energy. personal understanding of
So, their understanding is what is right for them, not
limited or they‘re operating from fitting their own lives into a
what they think is the right broader picture of common
direction, but it‘s from the good. However, astrology,
wrong direction from the way itself, cannot be misused.
we can look at it in a broader Hardy compares it to a
picture. But that doesn‘t mean muscle: the muscle does
it‘s being misused. That‘s like work, but where the arm
saying do you think the muscle moves depends on the
can ever be misused. Is there an person‘s moving it.
electrical impulse that goes to
the muscle of your arm—can
that ever be misused? No. I
292
mean, the electrical impulse is

good—it goes to the muscle and
the muscle contracts and it
creates energy and force and
then if that force is being used
because the person that‘s flexing
the arm is misguided in how
they‘re flexing their arm, it
doesn‘t mean that there‘s
something wrong with the
electricity in the muscle.
(I: Mm hm. That’s a good
comparison—metaphor for it, I
think. So, we’re coming to an
end of the interview. Is there any
concluding words—anything
that is left unsaid that you need
to express?)
65. Well, just that everybody‘s Hardy considers that each Hardy considers one of his
got their particular talents that person is meant to express life purposes is doing
they bring, and their particular their particular talent, for him astrology work, because he
thing that they‘re well chosen to it is his knowledge and talent has a talent for it and he was
do. And for me it was astrology for astrology. Hardy is ―meant to do it.‖
and I‘m so glad I found that. satisfied his was able to
And was able to bend my life change his life direction in
direction in that way, because order to do more astrological
it‘s been obviously what I was work, because it is what he
supposed to do all along. believes he was meant to do.
(I: Okay, great. Well, thank you The interview ended with
very much Hardy.) sincere thanks by the
Oh, you‘re very, very welcome. interviewer.
(I: We can stop here. Let me
stop this recording first.)

Finding Meaning With Astrological Symbolism

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Finding Meaning With Astrological Symbolism

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A PHENOMENOLOGICAL INQUIRY INTO THE PROCESS AND EFFECTS

OF FINDING MEANING WITH ASTROLOGICAL SYMBOLISM

in partial fulfillment of the requirements

for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy

Institute of Transpersonal Psychology

Palo Alto, California

May 11, 2011

Robert Frager, Ph.D., Committee Chairperson Date

Greg Bogart, Ph.D., Committee Member Date

Michael Mayer, Ph.D., Committee Member Date

All rights reserved

INFORMATION TO ALL USERS

American Psychological Association, 5th Edition.

All Rights Reserved

A Phenomenological Inquiry Into the Process and Effects of Finding Meaning

With Astrological Symbolism

phenomenological qualitative method rather than a quantitative approach as it is more suitable

object/subject dualism or causality. In addition, different modalities of creative expression were

interrelating one‘s literal experience with a broader philosophical, transpersonal, or spiritual

verification of self-concept, extended self-knowledge, and a sense of certainty and

cultural trends, as a whole, contributes to the sense of meaningfulness.

To the Great Teachers of Light:

I would like to express my heartfelt gratitude to my dissertation committee, my teachers

process of completing my dissertation.

experiences with much depth and wisdom.

graduate program while taking care of my newborn twins.

irreplaceable gifts and profound contribution to my life.

Abstract .......................................................................................................................................... iii

List of Tables ................................................................................................................................ xii

Chapter 1: Introduction ....................................................................................................................1

Overview of Content ........................................................................................................... 2

What Is Astrology? ............................................................................................................. 4

Foundations of Astrology ................................................................................................... 5

Personal Motivation .......................................................................................................... 10

Chapter 2: Literature Review .........................................................................................................13

Historical Development of Western Astrology................................................................. 13

The Greek Legacy ................................................................................................. 14

The Medieval and Renaissance Periods ................................................................ 16

Scientific Revolution ............................................................................................ 17

Current Research ............................................................................................................... 17

Validity of Astrological Claims ............................................................................ 18

Psychological Roots of Belief in Astrology.......................................................... 26

Astrology and Psychology .................................................................................... 29

A Psychology of Meaning .................................................................................... 52

Summary of Literature Review ......................................................................................... 63

Chapter 3: Research Methods ........................................................................................................65

Transcendental Attitude and Phenomenological Epoche ..................................... 71

Astrology, Phenomenology, and Meaning............................................................ 72

Sample Description ........................................................................................................... 75

Measures or Surveys ......................................................................................................... 77

Data Collection Procedures............................................................................................... 78

Data Analysis Procedures ................................................................................................. 78

Limitations and Delimitations........................................................................................... 86

Chapter 4: Results ..........................................................................................................................87

Participant 1: MaryAnn‘s Situated Structure ........................................................ 89

Summary of MaryAnn‘s Situated Structure ......................................................... 98

Participant 2: Iris‘s Situated Structure .................................................................. 99

Summary of Iris‘s Situated Structure .................................................................. 108

Participant 3: Alex‘s Situated Structure .............................................................. 109

Summary of Alex‘s Situated Structure ............................................................... 116

Participant 4: Hardy‘s Situated Structure ........................................................... 117

Summary of Hardy‘s Situated Structure ............................................................. 125

Astrology as a System of Guidance .................................................................... 127