FROM: Ostroff Associates

DATE: April 30, 2021

RE: Climate Action Council Transportation Advisory Panel

Chair - Marie Therese Dominguez, Commissioner, New York State Department of

Transportation

Members

• Jared Snyder, Deputy Commissioner, New York State Department of Environmental

Conservation
• Paul Allen, Senior Vice President, M. J. Bradley & Associates
• Dimitris Assanis, Assistant Professor, Stony Brook University
• Steve Finch, Senior Vice President, Automotive Services, AAA Western & Central
New York
• Albert Gore, III, Policy and Business Development, Tesla
• Kendra Hems, President, Trucking Association of New York
• Elgie Holstein, Senior Director for Strategic Planning, Environmental Defense Fund
• Renae Reynolds, Transportation Planner, New York City Environmental Justice
Alliance
• Porie Saikia-Eapen, Director, Environmental Sustainability and Compliance,
Metropolitan Transportation Authority
• John Samuelsen, International President, Transport Workers Union
• Nick Sifuentes, Executive Director, Tri-State Transportation Campaign
• Kerene Tayloe, Director of Federal Legislative Affairs, WE ACT for Environmental
Justice
• Julie Tighe, President, New York League of Conservation Voters
• Craig Turner, Executive Director, Buffalo Niagara International Trade Gateway
Organization
• Nancy Young, Vice President, Environmental Affairs, Airlines for America
• Bob Zerrillo, Policy Director, New York Public Transit Association

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Introduction

Marie Therese Dominguez noted that New York is home to a large consumer market, and
the State’s extensive freight system moves nearly 2 billion tons of freight, valued at over $2
trillion annually. By 2040, the estimates are that freight movement will increase by
approximately 50% by weight and 75% by value; and nearly 85% of all tonnage is moved
by truck.

Commissioner Dominguez then introduced Burak Kazaz, Professor of Supply Chain

Management, Syracuse University’s Whitman School of Management as the roundtable
moderator.

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Discussion

Burak Kazaz – In terms of subsidies, what do you view as desirable economic support for
the line of business you represent?
• Mike Rush: In talking about zero emissions locomotives, the railroad industries fleet
is very fungible. From that perspective, we need an industrywide solution. With the
current political environment, there is an opportunity to examine all methods of
transportation including railroads. There are only two locomotive builders and we
currently have a surplus of 2,500 locomotives right now because they aren’t being
purchased. For what New York can do, we would like the federal government to
engage in a private public partnership with us, and see at least a little funding for
our industry. We should have a common interface for charging batteries in the
future so that locomotives can be charged easily.
o Kazaz followed up by asking if he had any improvement requests for the rail
system infrastructure?
▪ Rush mentioned Amtrak and how the catenary network is not
practical or cohesive with the future emissions goals.
• Mike Roeth said they don’t have a policy position, but they do a lot of research. Often
medium and heavy-duty trucks are often referred to as being the same thing and
that is not the case. He noted there are 6 categories, small urban vehicles, medium
duty box trucks, vocational trucks (garbage/utilities), heavy duty tractors (long haul
and the dedicated/regional haul). Their vision is that smaller trucks will be
battery/electric and the larger trucks that need more range could be a diesel hybrid
truck or hydrogen hybrid. He also noted that they do not yet know how far electric

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 will go. Incentives are important for pioneering companies. Infrastructure is the
main challenge at this point.
o Kazaz followed up by asking if he saw any emphasis in the industry from his
end?
▪ He responded that there are a lot of trucks that are not used 24/7
thus, they are not of immediate concern. The main focus is fast
charging moving into the future.
• Glen Kedzie agreed with everything they said and noted that the operations of
trucking companies vary vastly. R&D dollars are important, and proper funding are
important to look at all aspects of these changes to avoid unintended consequences
by only focusing on electrification and nothing else. This is not going to be easy, and
we can’t rely on trucking companies to come up with the funding to ensure these
infrastructure changes are made
o Kazaz highlighted the need for grant money, more input subsidies, and
output subsidies (tax rates).
• Matt Menner said he does not have a meaningful position or comment on this
question.
• Victor Bonett said Amazon is supportive of legislation that will increase the
availability of zero-emission medium and heavy-duty fleet trucks as well as
accelerate their interconnection to the electric grid. They support efforts to tackle
aviation emissions by increasing the availability of sustainable aviation fuel. They
are also purchasing 6 million gallons of aviation fuel and recently in their home state
of Washington, supported the recent passage of a low-carbon fuel standard that will
increase the use of a low-carbon application by removing carbon vehicles. They also
recognize that their needs to be a federal investment so, they have urged for the
federal government to accelerate new carbonizing technologies, such as zero fuel
batteries and hydrogen. He mentioned support for their 30-minute delivery, drone
program as well.
Kazaz – What are your efforts in the company when it comes to packaging and redesign
(size shape weight and material), that can substantially reduce emissions in transport?
• Bonett stated they use machine learning algorithms to reduce unnecessary
packaging weight while providing greater protection for a product as they go from
the manufacturer to the customer. Obviously, smaller and lighter packages mean
that we can fit more orders into each delivery so, that results in fewer trips and less
fuel burned, all of which minimize the company’s carbon footprint. One of the things
they’ve established is a shipment zero goal to make all Amazon shipments net zero
carbon, with 50% of shipments being net zero by 2030. That includes the fulfillment
center where the item was picked up, the shelf materials that are used to package
the item, and the mode of transportation used in delivery. There was one other thing
I wanted to mention when it comes to packaging, we also have a certification that's
within our frustration free packaging program and what is does is certify that a
product in original packaging is designed to ship without the need for an additional
shipping box. Amazon works closely with manufacturers to develop and test

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 packaging and then we share these innovations publicly to help make
improvements across the industry. He then mentioned a program in India where
they deliver customer’s orders with no packaging, that ship in their original
packaging or are delivered in protective reusable crates; this program has been
implemented in more than 100 cities across that country.
• Rush noted that although they don’t deal with packaging because they get outside
products, they do monitor the weight of rail cars.
• Roeth noted that as packaging becomes shaped more efficiently, they are able to
carry more product in one load.
• Kedzie said that because the industry is so diverse these packaging initiatives do not
always advance. He also mentioned S508 where they are looking to have a group
convened (of trucking industry people) to look at ways to reduce emissions.

Kazaz – How can we execute more off-peak delivery capabilities?

• Kedzie responded that the interstates are commercialized and if a driver has to pull
over for a charge, why not make charging stations available to charge while they’re
stopped to sleep. Although commercial locations do not want charging posts at their
locations, it makes the most sense to incentivize that because otherwise the drivers
will have to stop to rest for their designated time and then drive a few more miles
and have to stop again. Without more charging stations available (sporadically)
there will be trucks backed up because they all have to go to the same stations. The
main issue I have seen in regards to commercial locations and charging stations is
that these travel centers don’t want to be regulated as a utility location. Should they
be treated as a utility there are a lot of operational issues. He assumes everyone will
be trained to put electric or hydrogen fuel in their trucks. Kedzie also noted that
places that provide traditional fossil fuels, cannot have electric because of spark
issues. There needs to be more R&D on the implementation of different fuel types at
different locations as well as educating smaller trucking companies.
• Bonett added that a lot of their off-peek delivery is driven by customer demand,
some other things that can help is their aerial drone program. This program allows
Amazon to get packages to customers in 30 minutes with no person involved. That
program is currently being tested and received FAA approval.
• Menner says many large shippers and receivers have achieved maximum efficiency
in their own facilities. In relation to store fronts, they are the ones who are in
control of operating hours. He argued that there has already been a significant
amount of work that has gone in to these conversations. In relation to the comment
on spark issues, Menner asked what this adoption would look like for all sectors (for
class A electrified vehicles)?
o Roeth responded the class A tractor fleets that are looking to adopt electric
are the ones who that did the early adoption of compressed natural gas,
because it was very similar in the fact that it calls for an infrastructure
change. He added that industries have done an excellent job on packaging
tanks so that they can get the 500–600-mile range; those companies, Amazon
being one as well as, Anheuser-Busch and UPS come to mind, who tried to go
electric, could not get the range in these early years.

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Kazaz – In relation to labor and workforce development, what issues should be anticipated
in addressing driver shortages and technician issues?
• Kedzie noted they have been facing a worker shortage prior to this issue beginning
to be addressed. Technicians will probably start to need technical degrees, and the
issue has become how do we recruit technicians and drivers. For students
graduating high school and college, trucking is not an appealing occupation. He
suggested that a possible solution might be driverless/autonomous mobile units,
but they are currently focused on job fairs and inner-city employment groups.
Kedzie also noted that having companion/coed teams is important to get more
women involved in the industry. Of the 3.6 million industry truck drivers, 41.5% are
minority and only 6.7% are women. There is a group called Women in Trucking,
where they are trying to advance the role of women in all aspects of the industry,
from trucking to the professional ranks.
• Roeth noted that he has seen a lot more women and technicians more excited to be
involved in the changing industry and that they are starting to see billions of dollars
being invested into making these changes. He believes the industry will start to
attract more people with the advancement in truck technologies
• Rush said train workers are paid very well, but moving forward the labor
expectation will change as the technology changes. The railroads have changed
their operations recently to run longer trains and he explained that the benefit of
this change is that it is reduced fuel consumption.
• Bonett stated that Amazon has over 800,000 employees and a lot of those are in
fulfilment centers. He mentioned their career choice program (for eligible
employees), where Amazon covers up to 95% of the tuition and fees per year, for a
degree or certificate in specific fields of study that lead to in demand jobs (which
vary depending on the location of the fulfilment center), regardless of whether the
degree or certification is related to their current job title with Amazon.
• Menner agreed that trucking is a difficult industry to recruit for. He also noted that
the government adds challenges: not being eligible for a CDL license until a person
is 21, then most companies that are insured do not want anything to do with them
until they have at least 2 years of driving experience. Regardless of technological
changes the main issues remain, worker recruitment, retention, and (for the
companies) finding qualified/experienced drivers.

Kazaz – What additional help do you need from NYS in terms of resources? Where do you
all need the most support?
• Rush stated that we need a national effort to look at decarbonization. We have a
couple demonstration programs and although those are important for progressing
technology, it is not a national solution. Railways are a very different industry and
we often struggle in getting support at the national level when it comes to inclusion
and funding. The main ask is a public private partnership to help us achieve those
goals.
• Kedzie expressed concerns about the pace of this implementation and noted that
there would need to be support for infrastructure changes. A truck can last up to 15

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 years, but some companies do cradle to grave and some choose to do trade-ins after
a certain number of miles. A plan needs to include lots of on and off assessments
and time outs to ensure that the problem is approached the problem in way that is
more cautious the decarbonization effort to make sure it is done right. He also
noted that funding sources, specifically the federal government, will be important.
o Kazaz agreed that if these changes are made too immediately, due to the
capital involvement, it can be dangerous if there are not consistent
assessments being made.
• Roeth stated a quicker transition would be preferable if it is manageable, as we still
expect to see hybrids and other things that could scale in the middle. We need to
learn faster to have more fleets because the diversity and the uniqueness within
different parts of the marketplace. What is learned with an Amazon final delivery
truck is different from what they will learn from a utility service truck.