You 'buy' a relationship, not 'build' one

What the hell do I mean?

You 'buy' a relationship NOT build one.

It means when you first meet a woman she has to ALREADY have the potential for
being a partner.

Take computers. You could build one yourself. I saw them. They are called 'kits'.
Very, very few people have the desire and patience to build their own computer.

But that's what most guys try to do in relationships. They try to 'build' a relationship
with talk and kindness and gifts and flowers.

All the while the woman is not the sort of woman who should be IN a relationship.

A woman who is not relationship worthy will think nothing of dating you.
She thinks she has every right to. Even though she is demented.

When you 'buy' a car, you don't try to put a different transmission into it. You don't
put 'bigfoot' tires on it either.

You buy it the way you WANT it to be. If it's not RIGHT you don't buy it at all!

If your girlfriend is not acting like you think she should be, it's because you didn't
'buy' a relationship.

You thought you were smarter than the Don Juan who CHOSE the right one in the
first place.

AD

Protect That Heart

You only get one heart.

One to a customer. But you keep treating your heart like an enemy instead of a
friend.

Would you let a friend get hurt time and time again without protecting your friend?

I think not.

So why do you keep leaving yourself wide open and leave your heart to take all the
blows?

It's sad that we spend years and years doing this to ourselves.

1
Love is not like a courtroom.
Women are all guilty of NON-interest until they PROVE it to you by showing
CONSISTANTLY good behavior.

Otherwise you do not connect.

No excuses, no cancellations, no run-arounds, no 'I'm not ready for a relationship'

NO 'give me time'.

Love the way you want it or they must be weeded out.

Love the way YOU want it. Sounds great huh? Get used to it Don Juan.

Grow a backbone TODAY. It's NO to bringing a friend along on the date. It's NO to
rude behavior. It's NO to "I have to check my schedule". It's NO to "give me your
number".

You lead, they must follow. For a few months. Then you can get 'mutual' if you
choose. That's "IF" you choose.

Protect the only part of your body that loves you:

YOUR HEART.

Thanks for listening.

AD

Funny you should make a post like this today, AD. I was thinking of posting a
personal testimonial and what you've stated relates to that. Synchronicity
everywhere I look, some days.

A while back I posted about my fiancee breaking our engagement. That was four
months ago - we're talking now, trying to be 'friends.' That may make some of you
pissed at me, but she's the first girl I had sex with and it is important to me that I
keep on good terms with her. 'Nuff said. But besides that I'm getting decent
feedback now on what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong, from someone
who knew me very well (probably too well). That, in itself, is very valuable.

What she has told me is that, in the beginning of our relationship, she wasn't sure if
I even wanted a girlfriend. She said I seemed cold - which could be interpreted as
seeming distant or mysterious in some ways. At that time in my life I was doing
karate, doing great in school, doing very will in dealing with some personal issues,
and I guess I radiated confidence. As time went on in our relationship I became less
secure and less confident. In the end she broke my heart. She ****ed up, but I also
allowed myself to be hurt. I wasn't protective enough of my heart.

We were close throughout most of our relationship, except at the end of course. All
along we had sex. But you know what? In the beginning, when she thought I was
somewhat cold and didn't want a girlfriend, we had sex A LOT. We talked and shared
of course, and that felt good, but we had sex A LOT. I got backrubs A LOT. She was
a LOT warmer to me in the beginning when she thought she had to work to keep me.
I got more of what I wanted when she wasn't sure if I was interested or not. When

2
she found out she had me no matter what, that seems to be about the time that
things went downhill.

Now that I'm talking with her again, and hearing what she was feeling and thinking
throughout the course of our relationship (she held back quite a bit), I'm realizing
that a surprising amount of what I read here about women is true. It doesn't matter
how special she is or how much she loves you - she's still a woman, and women
have to have certain things in a man to remain interested in them.

So I guess the moral of the story is this: Be confident. Be satisfied with yourself. Be
patient, wait for what you want. Be independent, not desperate. Keep improving
yourself, keep growing, keep broadening your horizons, keep trying new things, so
that you've always got something exciting about you to be mysterious about. Do not
implicitly trust anyone - trust is earned and not given. RESPECT women, but do not
allow YOURSELF to be disrespected either. Either call people (women AND men) on
their bullsh|t, or get them out of your life and laugh as you walk away. You should
probably do both. If someone hurts you, milk it for the lessons and move on as best
you can. If you have to grieve, then do so, but don't wallow in it.

If I had kept all this in mind and applied it, I would be where I'd like to be right now.
For me (your average 'nice guy') actually applying some of what I've read on these
boards is contradictory to years of conditioning by the USA's culture and my own
incorrect views of what women want.

Somebody smack me upside the head if I'm wrong (and I mean that in a verbal
sense), but it seems to me that you've GOT to keep IL up at all times in dating and
relationships. But! 95% of us men go about it the wrong way and 4% of us men do it
the right way but don't even realize they're doing the right thing. I'm starting to
think the most important way to maintain a woman's IL is by improving yourself and
respecting yourself FIRST.

------------------
I prefer salmon over catfish. But if a fish jumps out of the water into my boat, I'm
going to whack it with my oar...
__________________
I prefer salmon over catfish. But if a fish jumps out of the water into my boat, I'm
going to whack it with my oar...

AD
relapse,

As soon as she realized you really loved her, her mission was over.

Women are love seekers. As long as they are looking for love in you they will hang in
there. But as soon as they find it, they are off with another dude to start the process
over again.

They must never be really sure as you found out. Say "I love you" very rarely in the
future.

AD

3
IQ:
AD we need your input on how to be a mystery

Hi,

What to do you say about how to act mysterious around women you are interested
in. I mean, if they dont ask you any questions, you don't tell them any thing about
yourself. But if they ask you questions, how should you behave.

Maybe, give them a vague answer. How about giving a funny fake answer. Like, if
they ask what is the best experience of your life, you say "Riding a lion in a jungle in
Africa".
The funny answer may harm you a bit, cause she may start thinking you dont have
self-respect and may start loosing respect for you.

What do you say?

IQ.

AD
That's what you do. You try to disclose as little info about you as possible. You do
this by giving very general and VAGUE answers. Short and sweet. Then you turn the
convo back to her.

Her: Do first dates make you nervous?

You: Once in a great while. How about you?

Her: What kind of degree do you have?

You: A hard earned one. And you? Did you go to college?

You are only vague about personal info. But you still carry a conversation and talk all
you want too. Talk all night. Just not about you.

You should be acting like you were on America's Most Wanted. If you tell her too
much she will run.

The LESS they know, the MORE they want to know - Terminator911.

The secret is to talk about physical objects and stay away from SUBJECTIVE
subjects.

Talk about music, food, anything but you.

Quote:

How about giving a funny fake answer. Like, if they ask what is the best
experience of your life, you say "Riding a lion in a jungle in Africa".
The funny answer may harm you a bit, cause she may start thinking you

4
dont have self-respect and may start loosing respect for you.

How about this one:

Her: What do you do?

You: I'm a safe cracker!

I'm kidding! Don't say that!

No, IQ, like you said you will lose respect.

Just generalize all answers about you.

Her: What was the best experience of your life?

You: It was a trip to Africa. It was fun. And you?

Her: Tell me about Africa.

You: One night I almost got eaten by a lion.....

Only tell stories that are true. Notice how my answers were about THINGS and not
about ideas and feelings. That gets you into trouble.

Ideally, a woman shouldn't know much about how you feel about things. This makes
them very curious about you.

If she asks, what do you do, always go for the general term. "I'm in computers. And
you? What do you do?

Her: where do you live in Houston?

You: On the south side.

AD

Quote:
Originally posted by IQ:
In your previous articles you said that conversation kills the mystery. First
few dates should be action dates.

I really said the conversation about YOU kills the Mystery. But too much convo
usually leads to TOO MUCH personal disclosure. Hence the action dates. They are
your insurance against your big mouth.

Once they know all about you they get bored. You must reveal yourself slowly over
many dates and as long as possible, years even!
Quote:

5
What should we talk on these dates.
Like I said above, anything you see and do on the dates. "Look at the size of that
guy! I've never see a seven footer before. Isn't that different?"

Quote:

Well, dont talk about the relationship stuff and your feelings, but should
we try to find out her emotional self. Like what does she look for in a
relationship, what kind of guy she prefers. This might get us the idea what
she looks in a relationship or in a bf. This can help to create chemistry as
woman are emotional being. Or we should wait for her to bring these
topics up.

You can ask HER questions. But space them out. That way she won't keep asking
questions back.

You really shouldn't be getting so personal early on. You should be watching to see if
she cancels dates. Do you feel right with her? Is she rude when she can't have her
way to others? Does she have a temper?

I suggest staying on the SURFACE for a few dates. You may hate the way she orders
food. Why find out her disappointments in life if it turns out you hate the way she
talks.

On one of my dates, this great looking woman, my age, seemed to be talking

'funny'. I didn't notice that in the club when we met.

You create a Mystery when you know MORE about her than she knows about YOU.

Women claim they want to know everything about you. But if they find out too soon,
they leave.

It's their curiousity that drives them toward love. Be like a mini-series on TV. Don't
let them EVER know the ending!

AD

By ZAP

Take some chances, and don't get too mathematical! _PLEASE READ_

It's been a while since I'm posted some actual ADVICE on this board, instead of just
questions. I think this is really important, and would do everyone good to read.

I notice a trend of following very rigid patterns and rules in dating. It seems to be
that people around here have a bunch of algorithyms of sorts that they follow when
dealing with women, regardless of other factors.

For example, if the girl does something that somehow shows "low-interest" she
should be dumped. Or if she does something disrespectful, she should be dumped.

6
And you should only get the phone number in a specific way.

You know what all of this is? Bull****. Pure bull****.

No two women are alike. Although after years of rejection and harsh treatment it
may be comforting to assume this, but you're believing a lie. Sure, there may be
patterns, there may be traits most share, but I promise you that ever single woman
alive has certain features that break defy one expectation or another.

Treating every situation the same is a sure way to get nowhere... fast.

Let me give you a anecdotal example: About a month ago I ended up making out
with this really hot girl I barely knew. She snuck me and my friend into her house
late at night, and by the end we ended up in her bed getting into a little hanky-
panky.

Now, AD and many others would have told me she was just using me, that she had
little interest level by doing this. They would have said to dump her, not to waste my
time. In fact, that's what I thought, and my expectations weren't very high. But I
didn't let my assumptions, my math, decide my fate. I followed up on it, called her
the next day, and we very soon had a relationship.

Who would have guessed? Who would have guessed that she *really* likes me, and
doesn't play any games with me? Who would have guessed that now I'm in a great
relationship, with someone I've been looking for for the past year?

Most of you would never imagine such I thing. I wouldn't. But I didn't give up just
because something didn't go how I thought it should. Life isn't like that. People
certainly aren't like that. There is no one-size-fits-all dating technique that one can
apply to all women, all situations. It invariably depends on your character, who the
woman is, how you met, etc.

Certainly there are some general rules, but these rules are always subject to be
broken. Let them guide you, but don't let them rule you. Create your OWN destiny.

Phew, long post, thanks for reading the whole thing.

-Zap

AD

Great post BBJ!,

It's not a RANDOM happening like you said.

If you 'wing it' you get your wings clipped!

Women CHOOSE certain types of men . That's the secret we have all been waiting
for.

The good part is that each of us has these qualities inside us already. We just have

7
to highlight some of them and down play some of the others.

You ARE being yourself. But just not your PAST self.

AD

Quote:
Originally posted by BigBadJon:
AD, the common thread to these guys challenging the hard earned logic
behind the more experienced guys advice is that they are all still in school
(look at the profiles). I guess the nature of youth is to question the advice
of the older and wiser. Not that I'm that old.... I suppose I was the same
way a few years ago.

You are right. They just haven't learned "You don't know a Good One until you met a
Bad One."

They just don't know what pain is yet. They are too darn healthy!!!

Also, they don't have a problem with the immutable Laws of Physics.

But when it comes to the Laws of Dating they freak out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Talk to you later.

AD

BigBad Jon

Quote:
Originally posted by Zap:
Bigbadjon, if this was the perfect woman, she wouldn't have left you.
Simple as that. So the "spark" died. Would you rather it die in a couple
years, or get an extra ten years so it dies after you're married? Is divorce
the better alternative?

Not as simple as that. Society has you conditioned to believe that one day you will
meet your soul mate and all will be perfect forever. The vast majority of men are
clueless as to how to maintain a relationship, this is why they fall apart so easily.
With a little knowledge of the female psyche, a man can greatly increase his chances
of meeting and holding onto the ideal mate.

Quote:
The "one true love" isn't based on a spark. It's based on deep, personal,
intimate love. Not infatuation.

Thats the romantic side of you talking that will ultimately lead to you taking beating
after beating wondering where you went wrong because you "thought" you were
doing everything right.

8
Quote:

I would rather have a relationship that was based on truth an honesty fail,
than have one based on tactics and deceit last a few extra years. It may be
more difficult at times, but in the long run it's the only way to go.

Nothing should be based upon deception or dishonesty. All you need is enough self
respect to keep yourself from being taken advantage of. There is nothing wrong with
making minor adjustments to your personality to become a better person.

Quote:
Please don't discount me because I'm young. Sure, I have a different
outlook on life than those of you are older. Different. Not less realistic, not
stupid.

Not stupid, more like romanticised. You are conditioned from a very young age to do
all the wrong things to make a woman fall in love with you. 29 years of being
railroaded while thinking you are doing everything right will make you see this.

Quote:
This isn't for everyone. Maybe some of you really just think you have
unlikable personalities. Maybe you think no woman would possibly love
the REAL you, so you wear masks.

I know that I have the ability to attract a highly desirable woman. I have done it
more than once. It's what I did during the relationship that screwed everything up.

Don't become someone you are not. Accentute your good points and downplay the
bad. Doing this doesn't constitute being fake or wearing a mask. It's all about being
the best person you can be.

Poet:
On techniques & focus.....a bit technical

Have you ever wondered why in retrospect you can anaylize every little detail about
what went right & what went wrong when meeting a woman / starting a
relationship?? You think..."Damn, I fukked up there, why did I do that / say that /
think that / why did I say / do nothing?! etc.?" Or "that was a good line / time /
meeting / experience / etc." or "That was the perfect thing to say / do / not do, ad
nauseum"....If only we(i) had that clarity of thought at the moment it was
happening! The techniques on this board certainly help with this problem but....

Now I've been thinking & for me personally, it seems that the problem is (when it
occurs which is less & less thankfully) that I loose myself in the subjective moment &
fail to see objectively how I am being viewed & how the situation is developing. Ross
Jeffries talks about visualizing experiences from 2 different views...to increase
confident thought you see the experience through your eyes, the un-successful way
is to see yourself as if you are watching a movie somehow outside yourself as if
seing a picture. I agree as to the reasons the first way is more effective in building

9
confident visualizations of self in successful actions but the second way to me also
has value because it tells you how you are doing in the situation. In this case not a
visualization of an abstract or imagined action but the ability in your mind to step
back & "see" what is happening while at the same time being right there, looking
thru your eyes in all the subjective mishmash of sensory onslaught...all the things
that can confuse you & contradict you...all the info you need to filter & gauge & react
to in a continuous on-going fashion.
It seems this is a higher level skill because it implies the ability to act & react
moment to moment while assessing / stepping outside your subjective view &
monitoring your actions. Envision runnning along a road, you see the road & the
trees, the cars, you smell the flowers, you hear the dog barkinng, you feel your feet
hit the ground, etc...now in this analogy you also see yourself running as if standing
above or from a helicopter, now you see that car coming at you from the right, the
dog that looks mean & might bite ya! etc. This is what I am getting at. You hold 2
views at once. The seduction of the moment & the woman's presence makes view
one full of things that can impede your thinking & reacting process'. View 2 is a long
shot view of the whole scene & is more objective. Is it possible to keep both pictures
in your mind at all times or to switch from one to the other? The mental ability to
switch to view 2 might be something as simple as a thought "How am I doing here,
how am I being perceived based on my actions?" i.e. simply not loosing track of your
goals & your actions....I am not implying you second guess your actions constantly
or question everything you say & do....that would undermiine all your confidence. We
should have a plan of sorts & have a basic understanding of what we want to
accomplish but at the same time (at least for me) I find it necessary to step back &
weigh the situation at the moment. How do others see this. Do you ever wonder why
hindsight is 20 / 20? It's because we act, react, act ,react, etc. We need (I need) to
act,analyze (based on feedback), react, act, analyze (based on feedback), react! The
key for me is to analyze feedback immediately & quickly, otherwise I can find myself
totally at odds with the situation, lumbering ahead with my "agenda" & blissfully
ignorant of the real situation. Part of the skill I need to develop is to become an
"active listener" which means really hearing what someone is telling me....getting
outside of my thoughts & into theirs, feedbacking on them based on what they are
really saying. You can't walk like a sleepwalker, if your dreams are giving you
direction that's fine but you have to open your eyes & SEE what is going on at the
same time!

I probably overcomplexified a simple concept but it's one that I personally feel I
need more work on...to not get "lost in the moment" & loose the sense of objective
thought & purpose. To remain poised with "ice cold logic" & always be ready with the
most correct response to the situation. Any thoughts or more less wordy ways of
stating this? Poet

------------------
Action is all....words don't mean ****.

Trust your instincts & nothing else.

__________________
The cat that walks alone...

AD:

Any thoughts of more or less wordy ways of stating this?

10
-Poet

Yea. I have some.

Just focus on the single word 'NUMBER' when you are talking to a woman.

And then focus on the single word 'YES' when you call to ask for a date.

You only need TWO words Poet. Number and Yes. This may be too simple for a brain
like you!

And please don't pull out any FU's. It's a joke.

Forget Words. Take action.

AD

Dee-Zy

AD, You dump everything with low interest right?

Well what do you do to get High-Interest or Higher the Interest of a women? That is
before you get the number. That's where I am confused and that's where I need to
learn.

You say that as a DJ you get a better girl everytime. As for me If I would work on
focusing on High Interest only, I'd probably get real NASTY girls. Right now I get
ugly girls hitting on me and ugly girls having interest in me. I don't wan't them, How
can I actually get the ones I wan't?

------------------
I'm Ghost, Peace Out.

(.`*·.¸(`*·.¸ ¸.·*´)¸.·*´.)
*·.«´¨`·.Dee-Zy.·´¨`».·*
_...,·'(.·'´(¸.·''·.¸)`'·.)'·,..._
__________________
I'm so hot, it hurts sometimes.
If you dissagree with me, you are wrong ... Yes, you are.

Quote:
Originally posted by Anti-Dump
Excellent post Dee-Zy. Even at your age (16?) you see that.
It took me years and years to really see that. Keep up the fine Don Juan
work.

AD

Poet:

11
How do you get the ones you want? Talk to them, amuse them, engage them & gain
their interest..intrigue them, make them laugh..show them you have balls & are a
little nuts....(no pun there ha ha)..Poet

------------------
Action is all....words don't mean ****.

Trust your instincts & nothing else.

__________________
The cat that walks alone...

AD:
Quote:
Originally posted by Dee-Zy:

That is before you get the number.

I keep telling you that 'signs' are unreliable and are a waste of time to look for.

Women HIDE (!) their true feelings. They conceal them until they are absolutely
sure. That process takes months and months in a relationship. And you want them to
show it before? Never going to happen.

The ugly ones do it because they are desparate. The 9&10's DON'T do it generally
speaking.

You can't get into a woman's head early in the dating process. It's a SEALED VAULT.
You must strike women at their WEAK spot. Their 'weak spot' is ACTION.

Men rule the action world. Women are king in COMMUNICATING. But weak in action.

The secret is asking them to DO things. This is their weak spot. They would rather
'talk' all the time and discuss things. They are experts in that. You CAN'T WIN
UNLESS 'YOU' ARE THE EXPERT.

And you are. In DOING things. Asking for a date is the ultimate test. If a girl is
interested she will go into her 'weak' area for you. She will do things. She will let you
lead her in the ACTION world.

Women that are mediumly to low interested in you will HESITATE and think about it.

'Signs' are a form of communicating and that's where women are king.

Asking for a date is really saying 'let's do some action things'. You are seeing if she
will leave her communicating world for you.

Quote:

If I would work on focusing on High Interest only, I'd probably get real
NASTY girls. Right now I get ugly girls hitting on me and ugly girls having

12
interest in me.

Just say no.

You are under the impression that 9's & 10's will do that. Most won't. It's not a
REVERSABLE process. Because ugly girls do that, beautiful one's WON'T.

The good looking ones HIDE their true feelings.

You must ask out the ones that show very little signs IF SHE IS SOMEONE YOU
really WANT!

Risk is part of the game. No risk, no reward.

AD

Bigbad Jon:

Quote:
Originally posted by Anti-Dump:
Men rule the action world. Women are king in COMMUNICATING. But weak
in action.

The secret is asking them to DO things. This is their weak spot. They
would rather 'talk' all the time and discuss things. They are experts in
that. You CAN'T WIN UNLESS 'YOU' ARE THE EXPERT.

And you are. In DOING things. Asking for a date is the ultimate test. If a
girl is interested she will go into her 'weak' area for you. She will do
things. She will let you lead her in the ACTION world.

Women that are mediumly to low interested in you will HESITATE and
think about it.

'Signs' are a form of communicating and that's where women are king.

Asking for a date is really saying 'let's do some action things'. You are
seeing if she will leave her communicating world for you.

AD,

I am curious where you obtained this info.

By the way, YOU ARE 100% DEAD ON CORRECT.

This is the key to understanding women's behaviour. This is why you get her ass off
the phone to meet you in person. It's put up or shut up. Watch TLC. There are a
couple of shows about sex and the sexes that they replay from time to time.

13
According to TLC, men are better dealing "silently with things" whereas women are
better "discussing things with people". Men are supreme at performing spatial tasks,
while women are the communicators.

By getting her off the phone and into action, she is out of her territory. Action gives
you the power.

Last night my buddy met a girl at a club. Nineteen y/o, gorgeous (9), VERY talkative.
They stood at the bar and talked for most of the night. She was in total control. I
tried to tell him to get the # and move along, but he reasoned that he needed to talk
to her all night to try to get her to go home with him. I was just shaking my head.

I do have to comment about signs of attraction though. If a woman is interested in

you, she will show signs most of the time, good looking or not. If you catch her eye,
she will look your way.

I do agree it is BAD to look for and analyze these signs. It is better to simply go
after what you want. Approaching without getting any signs will pique her interest. It
also tilts the balance of power in your direction.

I recommend trying to catch both of the TLC shows if you have the chance (they
usually run back to back). There is a goldmine of other info, such as specifics of what
attracts women to men (looks, intelligence, being a risk taker, etc.). They also
discuss how men adhere to a strict heirarchy, whereas women are more egalitarian.
Very valuable stuff for understanding women and ourselves.

AD:

BigBadJon,

I'm glad someone understands what I'm talking about.

Quote:
Originally posted by BigBadJon:

I am interested where you obtained this info.

The communication/action strategy is my own. But it is based on Men Are From

Mars/ Women are from Venus by John Gray.

This book is the best book ever written about relationships. Don't get married
without reading it.

But...... it is a very dangerous book if you apply it to dating.

DO NOT! Repeat, DO NOT apply it to dating.

Why? Because you will be manipulated and used.

The Mars/Venus book (John Gray)

can only work if you have married a HIGHLY INTERESTED woman. Like Bonnie, his
wife.

14
Suppose you marry a woman that doesn't love you. Happens all the time. All the
giving will be ONE SIDED on your side. She will make excuses why she doesn't want
to make love to you. By the rules of the book you HAVE (!) to accept her feelings
and CANNOT 'INVALIDATE' them.

It's like you taking a criminal into your house but you can't call the police when he
robs you.

You accept a women's negative feelings ONLY IF she really loves you.

If you use the book for dating you will be like Lockman. You will have to be
'understanding' even about her insulting you.

You are a smart dude BigBadJon. I know you get this.

The book <<<<PRESUPPOSES>>>> high interest. But he

doesn't say that in the book. Very dangerous.

About your other comments:

As you said there ARE many 'signs' a woman gives. I HAVE seen some of those TLC
shows. They are great. Like in one show they showed a tape of how some women
look at a guy's shoes when they first meet. I don't doubtyou are judged, by some
women by your shoes. As a matter of fact I always make sure, after seeing that
show, my shoes are new when going out!

So I am not against signs.

The greatest lesson you will ever learn as a Don Juan is this: You must stop
'understanding' women and start CHOOSING ones that work with you and not
against you.

Mars/Venus doesn't tell you that IT IS UNNECCESSARY TO UNDERSTAND a woman if

she is highly interested in you! She will automatically do everything right!

Good luck BBB.

AD

Magas:
Getting a number doesnt mean high interest...why?

Theres this problem ive been pondering for a little while now. Im a firm beleiver in
using AD's "Whats your number tactic". And so far I have had 100% success with
it(worked with like 4 girls). As soon as this occurs I think cool shes interested. But as
soon as I call and ask for a date I find out otherwise...why is that? All of but one of
these women have agreed to a date on the phone and sound enthusiastic about it.
But when it comes down to it...they dont follow through. Dont get me wrong
here...im asking them like a man ie:"lets do xxx on sat etc." im not just asking them
what do you want to do. This is very frustrating for me here because thats what has
happened with the last few girls ive talked to on the phone. So if anyone can explain
here whats going on...maybe im missing something. Its obvious that they are not

15
interested b/c i dont get calls back from them...but im wondering if there is
something im missing here and not relaizing.

Thanks
Magas

AD:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magas:
And so far I have had 100% success with it(worked with like 4 girls).

So far so good. None told you to take a hike. I like that.

Quote:

But as soon as I call and ask for a date I find out otherwise...why is that?

Well, you didn't say what each girl said. What they say is important. It tells you
where you went wrong.

I know it's alot of work, but I need to see a brief list of what each girl said the first
time and whether or not you called back a SECOND time and what they said the
second time.

Example:

G1. She said her grandmother was sick and couldn't go. Called back one week later.
Said she was busy.

G2. Said sure but wanted to call me back for a time. She didn't call. I called her one
week later. I left a message. She still didn't call back.

You have to give a SECOND call one week apart in case her excuse was real.

Quote:

All of but one of these women have agreed to a date on the phone and
sound enthusiastic about it. But when it comes down to it...they dont
follow through.

What does 'agreed to a date' mean mean? Does that also mean they all called you
back and canceled? How did they get your number? All FOUR asked for it? I don't
think that's possible.

Quote:

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Its obvious that they are not interested b/c i dont get calls back from
them...

Tell me after you ask for the date and they say yes, how you end up with no date. I
don't get it.

AD

Magas:
Ok let me think here. Girl #1 sounded all excited about the date idea but she had to
help a friend move that weekend (told me that b4 i asked her out). But was
enthusiastic about doing something next week. She asked for my number to call me
but never did. I called back like 2 times...one week apart and left msg with mom i
think...never heard from her. Number thrown in trash.

Girl #2. Again same thing...got her number called her like 5 days later i think. Asked
her out to do something (again really enthususiasticly agreed) said she had some
pub-crawl thing going on for sat but wanted to get together. She was on her way out
when i called so she asked for my number to call me later in week and let me know.
She never called me. I knew ahead of time she wouldnt call (from past experiences
with this) so I went ahead and made plans with someone else. I called her like a
week after i ha dtalked to her last and left a msg "Hi xxx this is magas call me 555-
555-5555". Never heard from her either...at this point i didnt bother with a second
call i felt that this msg i left was her second chance since she blew the first chance.
Number pitched in trash. So tell me people whats going on here....all the signs look
good intially and then nothing happens. Ive come to realize that just b/c they ask for
ur number it doesnt mean **** it just means they will never call you.

Magas

AD:

The reason could be two things.

Maybe it doesn't work for young guys. Someone mentioned that. I have to think
about it. I know if you ask a mature woman for her number she won't give it out that
easily and will usually say "we can meet somewhere" or "maybe I'll see you here
next week".

From reading this board I get the impression that very young girls are pretty free
with their numbers. Maybe they haven't been burned yet by men and are more
open. Older women 25+ are more cautious and really have to like you to get the
number. I have to think about this.

The second reason might be that my stuff only works 80% of the time.

It is not 100%. No plan is. I know something definite: A home phone number is
BETTER than meeting a woman somewhere, or waiting weeks asking for dates that
never happen (see Lockman's topic).

I just don't know. I would guess toward the age thing. So why don't you just focus

17
toward getting a "yes" to dates?

No yes, you dump. Canceled dates you dump. That should get you closer to an
interested woman.

Well? Sorry if you are disappointed.

AD

AD:
Quote:
Originally posted by pimpstress keka:
~FEMALE WORDS OF WISDOM~

after all, you asked for her number... SHE'S IN CONTROL NOW. she gets to
make the decision on whether or not you guys ever get together.

Sorry Pimpstress Keka. That is traditional dating wisdom.

But it is simply not true. This is why nice guys give up their 50% in a relationship.

The guy is IN CONTROL. The guy asks for your number. If he doesn't ask nothing
happens. That's control. The guy keeps you waiting with you not knowing if he will
call EVER!

Then, he asks YOU "Let's do dinner.". The date itself is his idea. The person taking
action is the one in control.

And if you don't seem interested he drops you.

Many men aren't agressive in relationships because they erroneously think the
woman does the choosing.

You are lucky Pimpstress Keka. Very few men are Don Juans. Very few will give you
a hard time and seize Love Power.

Sincerely,

AD

Quote:
Originally posted by pimpstress keka:
I guess the feeling of control lies within who is thinking of it.

Exactly.

Quote:

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What did you mean when you said that I'm very lucky that few men are
Don Juans???

I meant that you still have alot of control. The focus will be on you, not HIM as I
advise guys here.

If there is a guy you are not sure of, he will probably stick around for quite awhile
before he realizes you only have a medium level of interest.

With my advice a woman gets dumped fast.

AD

Dymesman:

So AD,

you say MEN have all the power.

I thought women did, but I guess when I am man thinks that way he puts himself at
the mercy of women.

I felt that we MEN had to IMPRESS women to show them we are worthy of them. I
also felt that unless a guy is into RAPE that women call the shots.

When I mean shots I don't mean, they decide everything like a man has no mind og
his own. I mean;

IT IS their call if they even want to talk to us.

Their call if the want to date us, sleep with us, or even be with us period.

I thought it was that way.

But your appraoch is different and all the time I was in this forum, I did'nt know
that.

You say Ad, that a man has the power, even though he has to go through rejection,
false dates, women with attitudes, women who have no INTEREST in us, we STILL
have the power.

Tennisfreak:

confused by all these conflicting advice!

Firstly AD and the rest are always saying NOT to come on too strong when you first
start dating a girl.
Then I read that you need to initiate KINO on the FIRST few dates to show that you
are romantically interested.
Forgive me, but isnt that coming on too strong??? Also, how can you get yourself

19
into a position to initiate KINO? In a public place? I mean say you are sitting across a
table doing lunch, surely you cant just reach out and grab her??
What about at the cinema? Would it be risky/cheap to reach out and KINo then? OR
when you two are taking a stroll in the mall.
Cheers

AD:
Quote:
Originally posted by tennisfreak:

Forgive me, but isnt that coming on too strong???

I am the only guy here in the Forum that doesn't believe in Kino.

I'm not talking 'against it' now.

Before you ask for the number I feel it is a no-no. It shows too much interest.

On the first, second and third date you should be watching to see if she touches
YOU. This is high interest if she does. If you are touching her, you have spoiled this
little test.

A deep kiss and holding her in your arms at the end of the second and rest of the
dates is enough to show a romantic
interest. And keep your Mystery in check.

I usually LEAN IN CLOSE during the dates when I'm reaching for something or doing
something on the date. Like reading a menu together. This is my version of 'kino'. I
get real close then get back to a normal
position.

This shows her I am a Mystery

BUT not afraid to get close to her. It substitutes for touching.

Now about hand holding. I always wondered, do you hold her hand when crossing
the street during the first few dates. Or at times when she might be get hurt?

No. You touch her shoulder or back just below her neck. You do that to protect her.
No hand holding for as long as you can hold out.

If she grabs YOUR hand at any time, first date on, make sure you hold back.

Massive touching from the number thru the fourth date I feel I the act of a man who
is needy.

Hold her, kiss her, sit VERY close, but no massages please.

Sorry if this goes against all the others.This is my personal opinion. Use your own
judgement men.

20
I guess I am TOO strict. But I won't return to MR. Nice Guy.

AD

Bigbad Jon:

Quote:
Originally posted by Anti-Dump:
Before you ask for the number I feel it is a no-no. It shows too much
interest.

I would have to agree with you on this, for the most part.

Quote:
On the first, second and third date you should be watching to see if she
touches YOU. This is high interest if she does. If you are touching her, you
have spoiled this little test.

I don't know... most of the time if I have waited this long to initiate contact it
becomes awkward to start. Also, unless she really likes you, you are starting to step
into the friend zone.

Quote:
A deep kiss and holding her in your arms at the end of the second and rest
of the dates is enough to show a romantic
interest. And keep your Mystery in check.

Man, I hate awkward moments. If I have at least made her comfortable with an
innocent touch from me, it will be that much less awkward when I go for the "not so
innocent" stuff.

Quote:
I usually LEAN IN CLOSE during the dates when I'm reaching for
something or doing something on the date. Like reading a menu together.
This is my version of 'kino'. I get real close then get back to a normal
position.

I like that. Studies have shown that someone who already has a favorable
impression of you, sitting closer makes them like you more.

Quote:

Massive touching from the number thru the fourth date I feel I the act of a
man who is needy.

21
Massive touching is a no-no. Light, innocent stuff will increase her interest and make
her want more. And thats the idea, make her want more, right?

Quote:
I guess I am TOO strict. But I won't return to MR. Nice Guy.

I can see where kino may lead to too much interest being shown on your part. I
think the trick is to use it wisely to project confidence and raise interest.

None of us wants to return to our nice guy roots. We all just have different ways of
keeping ourselves from it.

Pook:
There is a single purpose for Kino: to show that you are a Sexual Being. Light
touching on the arms, shoulders, upper back, forces her to think sexually about you
and gives her permission to touch you similairly or to up the ante. Girls LOVE kino.

If you do not initiate Kino and wait for her to do it, you are Mr. Nice Guy. This is
what Nice Guys do and why they lose. They are too 'nice' and think that touching
them will 'scare' her or show that you are too interested (by touching her it tells her
that you are interested in her sexually).

Failure to do this will land you right into the "Let's Just Be Friends" Zone. The girl will
see you as a nice personality but sexually as a mannequin. Why? Because
mannequins don't intiate kino.

Even my 'nice guy' friends, when they started iniating Kino, had full relationships
BLOSSOM practically overnight. Kino is that powerful.

You TEST the girl's interest by doing Kino and SEEING HOW SHE RESPONDS.

Kino is the ULTIMATE INTEREST TEST. You can tell if a girl is just 'playing', 'teasing',
being a 'professional dater' or truly interested by how she responds to the Kino. If
she opens up her posture, mirrors your touch, etc. then she is interested and
attracted to you SEXUALLY. (This is why Kino is said to be the first true step of the
courtship ritual.)

If you WAIT for her to kino first, you will A) Spend more money and time taking her
on dates waiting for her to initiate Kino (She's waiting for THE MAN to initiate it, just
as you initiated the courtship by asking for her number) and B) Eventually landing in
"Friend" zone.

Failure to initiate Kino = Nice Guy

Poet:
Failure to initiate Kino = Nice Guy

[/b][/quote]

22
100 % with you on your entire post...totally correct sir! I finally figured this out for
myself & I always go for as much Kino as I can..you will know easily enough if it's
being accepted or not...immediate feedback & easily adjustable to the mood & the
mindset of the recepient....very powerfull stuff...Outa here, Poet

------------------
Action is all....words don't mean ****.

Bigbad Jon:

Quote:
Originally posted by Pook:
There is a single purpose for Kino: to show that you are a Sexual Being.
Light touching on the arms, shoulders, upper back, forces her to think
sexually about you and gives her permission to touch you similairly or to
up the ante. Girls LOVE kino.

Amen brother.

Quote:
If you do not initiate Kino and wait for her to do it, you are Mr. Nice Guy.
This is what Nice Guys do and why they lose. They are too 'nice' and think
that touching them will 'scare' her or show that you are too interested (by
touching her it tells her that you are interested in her sexually).

Yea, that's exactly how I got mailed off to LJBF land many times. You want to touch
them but are afraid of coming on too strong or whatever.

Quote:
Kino is that powerful.

Very. You can be unattractive to her, and if you can get her comfortable with your
touch her interest level may increase dramatically. I'm tellin you, my buddy wasn't
all that in the looks department, (the girls that were chasing him told me this) but he
poured on the kino and he had 6 of them at any given time all over him.

Quote:
You TEST the girl's interest by doing Kino and SEEING HOW SHE
RESPONDS.

Absolutely.

Quote:
If you WAIT for her to kino first, you will A) Spend more money and time
taking her on dates waiting for her to initiate Kino (She's waiting for THE

23
MAN to initiate it, just as you initiated the courtship by asking for her
number) and B) Eventually landing in "Friend" zone.

Not only do women expect the man to initiate contact, they also expect him to be
the one to turn up the heat once you're in the kitchen.

Quote:
Failure to initiate Kino = Nice Guy

Could have saved myself a ton of grief with this knowledge years ago.

Tennisfreak:

what do you do when she says the magic words?

HEre's a hypothethical situation:

Supposed you've been going out with this chick for like a month, observing all the DJ
rules. SO one day she says she 's
in love / really likes /head over heels about you.
Whats the DJ way to respond? Play it cool and don t respond particularly excited?
Or tell her you feel the same way since the FIRST day you met her?

Bigbad jon:
The last few relationships I've been in it seems like the girls are telling me this after
only knowing them for a week.

I just keep my poker face on and let them wonder for awhile. Telling her your true
feelings is a good way to chase her out the front door.

AD:
I would just say "That's wonderful" and then kiss her.

If asked how I felt, I would say "Keep going with me and find out". She will be mad
but will be DYING to find out!

Never tell a woman how you feel under two months. Now matter even if she says
how SHE feels.

Most new relationships break up in eight weeks. You must see if she will be around
after the second month.

Remember, you may want to dump her before eight weeks. You can't say 'I love
you'. Then break up with her when you discover something you don't want.

Wait and be sure.

AD

Doctor:

24
My response is generally 'I love me too.' You'll get hit for it

If she pushes you bust on her for it.

Then one day if you decide you mean it and tell her you love her it'll have a HUGE
effect

Armand:

Smoothe sailing tonight!

I was at dinner rally earlier this evening, a political-type function. Now, I went there
specifically for that purpose, but when I got there - politics was the last thing on my
mind. I never would have expected that many 20-25 y/o women there, compared to
the same lot of men. (BBJ-Looked to me like it WAS about 4:1 ratio in the room, in
my age group) Five or ten minutes after getting there, a (22-24) redhead (my
weakness) walks by casually and..

Me: "Hi" with a smile

Her: "Hi" returning a warming smile.
Me: Have you met [The Candidate's Name] yet?
Her: I haven't had the pleasure yet, but I do hope to meet him.
Me: Pause for a moment of silent eye contact and a bigger smile
Her: a bigger smile
Me: What's your name?
Her: Big smile- I'm [Pretty Hot Redhead].... And you are...?
Me: I'm [DJ Armand]
Her: It's a pleasure to meet you DJ

I started to ease my way into the DJ by asking about her interests in the party
functions, why she's there tonight, college, where she's from, etc, etc. I pretty much
had her talking 80-90% of the time once I got her started.

By the time I was getting ready to ask for her home phone number (about 1 hr, hour
and 15), she was sitting closely doing the "forearm touch" each time she laughed out
loud - which was quite often. Well, to make a not-really-that-long-of-a-story short, I
said (in a tone that let her know I was wrapping up and moving on for the night):
"Well [Pretty Hot Redhead], I enjoyed meeting and speaking with you
http://www.sosuave.com/ubb/smile.gif" and before I could really get any further she
had her hand in her purse grabbing a pen out of her checkbook. After securing the #
and closing, I then made my exit directly.

There's another party on election night (Tuesday) that i'll probably call her on and
ask if she'd like to go. I think her interest was high enough to warrant calling a day
or two sooner than usual. After that, I think I should give her a little while to
marinate, so to speak. http://www.sosuave.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Maybe calling the
following monday for a wednesday evening bite to eat and coffee. By then, provided
things continue as plotted, her interest should be through the roof in two weeks
because:

1) I did not and will not appear too eager, hungry, desparate, etc., but scarce.

25
2) I'm only asking her out on weekdays for the next 2 weeks = mystery and
challenge, she's going to be wondering why i'm only asking her out on weekdays
evenings. Soon enough, she should start hinting around about the weekends.

3) I did not respond to her initiating touch tonight = self-control.

4) I made her laugh the entire time we were together tonight - emotion

AD:
Perfect Don Juan.

This should be in the Hall of Fame.

Her "forearm touch" said that you hooked the big fish.

All the nice guys here should paste this to their bed post and start DREAMING this
stuff.

The woman should follow YOUR lead. Later, down the road, you work together and
things become mutual.

Interested women WORK with you in the very beginning.

AD

What's Your Number?

'Three Little Words'

Forget crazy pickup lines

forget fancy approaches
forget massive confidence
forget cool clothes
forget her confusing glances
forget two hour convos.

Turn your life around by asking her.......

WHAT'S YOUR NUMBER?

------------------------------------
Forget colognes
forget the layguide
forget Ross Jeffries
forget negging
forget hair gel
forget fast cars

Turn your life around by asking her....

WHAT'S YOUR NUMBER?

____________________________________
forget Anti-Dump

26
forget Big Don
forget Krynnster
forget Austin Powers
forget Zap
forget Cecil

Turn you life around by asking her....

WHAT'S YOUR NUMBER?

____________________________________

Total happiness is waiting for you but you must say the three little words to
her...First, introduce yourself, then a little talking, then....

What's your number? And go home. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

(Thanks Zap. Great phrase)

Good Luck.

AD

Austin Powers:
think he is saying that forget all of these other things that you get hung up on and
just ask for the number. you can focus on a million different things, tryna smell
good, tryna wear the right thing, tryna say the right thing, tryna do everything
except the one thing that will make it happen which is Ask for the damn number. i
understand it.

AD:
At least Austin 'got it' PERFECTLY.
I am glad there is something that we agree on. There is a God after all!

No number, no relationship.

AD

27