Video Recorded Statement of Lieutenant David Lebid

1
2 VIDEO RECORDED STATEMENT
3 OF
4 LIEUTENANT DAVID LEBID
6 Located at
7 Lee County Sheriff's Office

14750 Six Mile Cypress Parkway
8 Fort Myers, FL 33912
9 on
10 January 20, 2021, at 2:00 p.m.
11
12 ATTENDEES:
13 R. Frank Myers, Esquire

Law Office of R. Frank Myers
14 12331 Towne Lake Drive, Suite 9
Fort Myers, FL 33913-8016
15 Email: frank@rfrankmyerslaw.com
16
Richard Guin
17 Certified Deposition Video Specialist
Email: guinfilms@gmail.com
18
Deborah M. Bruns
19 Florida Professional Reporter
20
21 ______________________________
22 ACCURATE REPORTERS, LLC

1601 Jackson Street, Suite 103
23 Fort Myers, FL 33901
(239) 245-8695
24
25
2
1 INDEX
2
Statement........................................... 3
3
Certificate of Reporter............................. 43
4
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE REPORTERS, LLC

(239) 245-8695
3
1 PROCEEDINGS
2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are on the record. This is
3 the video recorded statement of Lieutenant David Lebid.
4 We are located at 14750 Six Mile Cypress, Fort Myers,
5 Florida, 33912. Today's date is January 20th, 2021,
6 and the time is approximately 2:03 p.m.
7 My name is Richard Guin, certified deposition
8 video specialist. The court reporter is Debbie Bruns
9 from Accurate Reporters, LLC.
10 Could the court reporter please swear in the
11 witness.
12 THE REPORTER: Would you raise your right hand to
13 be sworn. Do you swear or affirm to testify to the
14 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
15 LT. LEBID: I do.
16 MR. MYERS: Good afternoon. My name is Frank
17 Myers. I am Sandy Modell's attorney here to talk to
18 you about an event that occurred almost five years ago.
19 What is your full name?
20 LT. LEBID: David Michael Lebid, L-E-B-I-D.
21 MR. MYERS: Mr. Lebid, do you understand that I am
22 having this conversation recorded, digitally recorded,
23 and the video could be shown to someone else?
24 LT. LEBID: Yes, sir.
25 MR. MYERS: Thank you.

(239) 245-8695
4
1 What is your current business address?
2 LT. LEBID: 14750 Six -- which is spelled out,
3 S-I-X -- Mile Cypress Parkway in the city of Fort
4 Myers, state of Florida, 33912.
5 MR. MYERS: If someone were looking to contact
6 you, what phone number would they use to call you?
7 LT. LEBID: The main phone number is 239-477-1000;
8 and if you needed my direct desk phone number, it's
9 239-477-1412.
10 MR. MYERS: All right, thank you.
11 Were you one of the homicide detectives assigned
12 to investigate the death of Ryan Modell back in March
13 of 2016?
14 LT. LEBID: Yes.
15 MR. MYERS: And back then, in March of 2016, was
16 there a murder as far as you are concerned here today?
17 LT. LEBID: Yes.
18 MR. MYERS: In other words, in your professional
19 opinion, did James Taylor murder Ryan Modell on March
20 20th, 2016?
21 LT. LEBID: After gathering the facts, my
22 understanding of it was yes.
23 MR. MYERS: So back then did you participate in
24 conducting a thorough investigation of the facts that
25 were underlying Ryan Modell's murder?

(239) 245-8695
5
1 LT. LEBID: Yes.
2 MR. MYERS: Would you just, in summary, tell me
3 what efforts were -- were made by your department in
4 order to investigate the death.
5 LT. LEBID: During the inception of that event,
6 which occurred in the late -- late night/early morning
7 hours into March 20th, so around 2:29 a.m. is when we
8 finally received the phone call -- when I say "we
9 finally," meaning Lee County Sheriff's Office because
10 initially the 911 call went to the City of Cape Coral
11 Police Department's 911, and then they transferred it
12 to Lee County Sheriff's Office.
13 So within about a minute of that, Lee County
14 Sheriff's Office deputies that worked that specific
15 area where the incident occurred were on their way; and
16 within approximately five or six minutes, one of the
17 first deputies was on scene.
18 So upon making contact with Mr. Taylor and
19 discovering the body of Mr. Ryan Modell, initial
20 deputies and the supervisor secured a crime scene and
21 made sure Mr. Taylor was detained to be spoken to, and
22 tried to protect the evidence as best they could.
23 There was a little bit of inclement weather -- some
24 rain was coming in -- so they took the best steps they
25 could with trying to preserve whatever they were able

(239) 245-8695
6
1 to observe in the dark night. And eventually the Major
2 Crimes Unit was called, and at the time I was
3 functioning as a sergeant in that unit, and I was on
4 the on-call rotation, so I was working it from the
5 position of a sergeant overseeing a handful of
6 detectives. And in conjunction with the detectives, we
7 utilized our Forensics Division to make sure they
8 memorialized the scene through video and photographs
9 and aerial photography, to collect all the evidence, to
10 document what we -- we saw when we saw it so that we
11 could put it together later on and try and tell a
12 thorough story.
13 With that, the detectives completed a neighborhood
14 canvas and spoke to whoever heard something or saw
15 something, tried to gather any kind of background they
16 could on the people living in that area. We attempted
17 to speak with Mr. Taylor in the beginning. He declined
18 to speak with us and wanted to have legal counsel
19 present, so we held off on that.
20 MR. MYERS: So he exercised his Miranda rights?
21 LT. LEBID: Yes, he did.
22 MR. MYERS: All right, go ahead.
23 LT. LEBID: And we did a search warrant on his
24 residence because part of the event occurred within the
25 threshold of his residence, and led out to the -- the

(239) 245-8695
7
1 street and then to a whole other unit adjacent or
2 almost next door to that unit that he lived in, as well
3 as --
4 MR. MYERS: Which was how far away, the unit that
5 Mr. Modell actually lived in, approximately?
6 LT. LEBID: Oh, okay. Well, when you look at it
7 like that, you have where Mr. Taylor lives, and then he
8 killed Ryan one like whole -- it's a large structure.
9 It's like four units in one. Just to the -- if you're
10 looking at it, to the right of it, but Ryan actually
11 lived across the street. So he was obviously turned
12 around and was confused about where he was.
13 MR. MYERS: Okay. Now, it's been about five years
14 since this incident, right?
15 LT. LEBID: Almost.
16 MR. MYERS: To your knowledge, has any part of a
17 proper investigation been skipped, or is the
18 investigation lacking in any way?
19 LT. LEBID: No. I've poured over it just because
20 of different things that have come up over the years,
21 and no. It's tricky because you have two people
22 primarily involved that know what happened, and one's
23 deceased, so you have to go off the word of the main
24 person who survived. And then, with that, we tried to
25 measure the evidence and look at the different evidence

(239) 245-8695
8
1 that was on the scene to see if it matched up and
2 corroborated the witness testimony. And, yes, it's
3 a -- it's a high-stress environment so people may
4 forget things, or they may remember things differently
5 because of all the natural things that occur. And then
6 we try to rely on the different testimony from people
7 that heard noises to try and help develop a timeline to
8 see if it made sense, to see if there were any gaps in
9 anything. And looking at all of it, I'd say, yes, we
10 did a thorough investigation with what we knew at the
11 time.
12 It's hard to try and go back and then you see
13 maybe pitfalls but -- that sometimes you say, oh, we
14 didn't know this at the time or whatever. And in this
15 case the only thing I think I would have done -- I wish
16 we would have been able to do faster was try and get
17 blood drawn from Mr. Taylor right away, but there were
18 delays with trying to get someone who would actually
19 draw the blood from him. So by the time the body
20 search warrant was actually executed, we're talking --
21 this happened around 2:30 in the morning; and if I
22 remember correctly, this was somewhere around 9
23 something in the morning, so any kind of any really
24 valuable blood evidence that would have indicated a
25 blood alcohol content wasn't going to be useful

(239) 245-8695
9
1 anymore.
2 MR. MYERS: Did Mr. Taylor ever admit to you or
3 any of the investigators that he had actually taken the
4 life of Mr. Modell?
5 LT. LEBID: The -- in the beginning when the first
6 sergeant was on scene -- well, the first deputy that
7 was on scene said that he spontaneously uttered -- you
8 know, I -- it's something to the effect of -- and I'm
9 paraphrasing -- I shot that guy.
10 MR. MYERS: And so shot that guy with what kind of
11 firearm?
12 LT. LEBID: It was later learned it was a Glock
13 10mm.
14 MR. MYERS: Was that Glock 10mm taken into
15 evidence?
16 LT. LEBID: Yes.
17 MR. MYERS: Is it still in evidence five years
18 later?
19 LT. LEBID: Yes, I believe it's still in evidence.
20 MR. MYERS: Okay. Based on that investigation we
21 were talking about earlier, did you ever identify any
22 legal justification for Taylor killing Ryan Modell?
23 LT. LEBID: At the time it was hard to determine
24 because, again, our primary witness wouldn't talk to
25 us. So he initially said to deputies something to the

(239) 245-8695
10
1 effect of he -- he charged me or he rushed me or
2 something like that to explain why he did what he did,
3 but what we couldn't understand initially at face value
4 was why -- why did that confrontation happen out here
5 when you live here, and now you're well over a hundred
6 feet, if not more, out from your house and then further
7 over into another unit, another driveway entirely.
8 MR. MYERS: Did anyone take a statement from
9 Mr. Taylor's wife?
10 LT. LEBID: Yes, we spoke with Patrice.
11 MR. MYERS: All right. Based on Patrice Taylor's
12 statement and anything that you learned from Mr. Taylor
13 during the investigation, would you tell me what you
14 believe were the series of events that took place from
15 just before the 911 call was made until the time when
16 Mr. Taylor murdered Mr. Modell.
17 LT. LEBID: After reviewing what we learned from
18 Mrs. Taylor's statement, it sounds like they were
19 asleep. It was the middle of the night. Both Mr. and
20 Mrs. Taylor were in their bed, and they were woken up
21 by a loud noise, whether it was yelling or banging or
22 both at the same time, so they tried to figure it out
23 and went to the door.
24 And I don't know exactly how that evolved right
25 away, did they try and speak through the door first or

(239) 245-8695
11
1 through the window or just open the door a little bit;
2 but at some point the door opened up, and Ryan Modell
3 tried to force his way in.
4 By that point, my understanding was that both
5 Mr. and Mrs. Taylor shared the sentiment of, wow, this
6 guy's confused. I think he's at the wrong place. I
7 think he may be under the influence because of the way
8 he's speaking to us, because of the way he's acting at
9 the door, and he doesn't belong here, and we want him
10 to go away.
11 So that led to, I guess, Mr. Modell -- or, excuse
12 me, Mr. Taylor trying to convey that face to face. The
13 door opened. Ryan tried to come in. Mr. Taylor was
14 able to force him out, and it caused an injury to
15 Ryan's foot. There was actual blood in the threshold
16 of the doorway proving that Ryan was somewhere he
17 didn't belong. And then Ryan left.
18 So eventually we learned that Patrice said she
19 called 911, and she realized that she wasn't talking to
20 who she needed to, and they were trying to forward her
21 to the right 911. So eventually -- and I was listening
22 to it recently -- she said, "Is this the Fort Myers
23 911?"
24 And they're like, "This is 911, yes, ma'am. We're
25 trying to help you." And you could tell that she

(239) 245-8695
12
1 probably had a conversation before and was confused and
2 just wanted help. So they said, no, we have -- we have
3 deputies coming to you. We have people coming to you.
4 "Are you in the house?"
5 "Yes. My husband is outside."
6 "Tell him to come inside."
7 "Okay." And she said she did.
8 So what confused me is somehow during that initial
9 911 call, around 2:29-ish in the morning on the 20th,
10 within a matter of five or so minutes not only were
11 Mr. and Mrs. Taylor not both in the house, but
12 Mr. Taylor left the safety of his house, left his wife
13 behind and told her to lock the door, and then went out
14 looking for Ryan, which I don't understand why because
15 the goal was I don't want you in my house, you have the
16 wrong house, and I thought, in my estimation, well,
17 that was accomplished.
18 MR. MYERS: Well, wasn't Ryan dressed in tactical
19 gear, you know, with all kinds of weapons on him?
20 LT. LEBID: This was especially frustrating to me
21 because Ryan was shirtless, he was wearing shorts, kind
22 of like a board short/bathing suit style, and he had
23 some kind of sandals or flip-flops or whatever
24 vernacular you want to choose to -- to cover that, and
25 that was about it. There was no obvious area to

(239) 245-8695
13
1 conceal any kind of weapon.
2 And I know that Mr. Taylor is not a police
3 officer, but he did explain to us that he's a military
4 veteran. So from knowing veterans and having veterans
5 in my family, you're taught about how dangerous hands
6 are and how hands can kill you, as well as concealment.
7 You're taught about where a weapon could be and where
8 you look for that, so that way you can tell people to
9 stay back and not come close to you. So I don't know
10 what his actual training is but --
11 MR. MYERS: Did -- did Mr. Taylor ever confess to
12 one of your investigators that he -- that Ryan Modell
13 actually had nothing in his hands at the time that he
14 confronted him?
15 LT. LEBID: Yes, he did. He actually said that
16 when he finally found Ryan, he had to exit his unit,
17 which is at the back if you're facing their
18 structure -- it's kind of a quadplex where you have two
19 places on the bottom, you have two places on the top;
20 and if you're facing where he lives, he lives to the
21 right. So the first kind of cut off the sidewalk leads
22 you to upstairs, if I remember correctly.
23 MR. MYERS: Like a door that leads you up the
24 staircase?
25 LT. LEBID: Right. And then if you continue down

(239) 245-8695
14
1 that sidewalk, that door leads you to the unit that's
2 on the first floor, which is the unit that Mr. and
3 Mrs. Taylor reside in. So he had to exit that unit,
4 come all the way down this long sidewalk, and then
5 still couldn't see Ryan. He had to go towards the
6 center of where the garage doors are to where a water
7 spigot was, and there he found Ryan --
8 MR. MYERS: Pause.
9 And this was approximately, according to the
10 testimony, how long after the confrontation at the
11 front door in which Ryan Modell's foot was injured?
12 LT. LEBID: That's -- that's up for debate
13 depending on memory recall, but whether you call it
14 well after or not -- in high-stress situations, seconds
15 can feel like minutes, and it was a long enough period
16 of time where Mr. Taylor made a plan with his wife to
17 tell her to call 911, stay inside, lock the door, got
18 his gun --
19 MR. MYERS: He had to take time to retrieve his
20 gun.
21 LT. LEBID: Right. And initially that was also
22 one of the things that was a point of contention. Oh,
23 did I answer the door armed? Oh, I -- I had my gun
24 with me. That doesn't make sense to me because if you
25 have a gun in your hand, and you have to fight someone

(239) 245-8695
15
1 in a doorway, you're telling me you're one-handed?
2 After you told me that you have the -- your age and
3 you're out of shape, and this guy is a bigger guy,
4 because you've now -- Mr. Taylor eventually described
5 Ryan as a bigger guy, and he was a bigger guy. So
6 you're going to one-handed fight a bigger guy, because
7 you have a gun -- I don't know if he's doing high-port
8 carry or low-ready or whatever -- and bash his foot in
9 the -- in the doorway and then be able to close it? So
10 then what? Did you set the gun down, did you put it in
11 your armpit, and then turn the deadbolt? It doesn't
12 make sense.
13 MR. MYERS: Uh-huh.
14 LT. LEBID: So chances are he was unarmed at that
15 moment because it's 2 something in the morning, and
16 he -- maybe he just was going to the door to have a
17 conversation. I don't -- I still, for the life of me,
18 don't understand why he -- he did.
19 MR. MYERS: Do the facts support a possible
20 scenario that Mr. Taylor -- after he locked Ryan Modell
21 out, that Mr. Taylor went back to a bedroom or a secure
22 place, retrieved the handgun, the Glock, and then
23 proceeded out the front door?
24 LT. LEBID: That's what makes the most sense.
25 MR. MYERS: If that makes the most sense, would

(239) 245-8695
16
1 that, as far as your training tells you, constitute the
2 kind of premeditated murder that normally gets someone
3 charged with first-degree murder?
4 LT. LEBID: Premeditated is an appropriate word
5 because it involved a lot of thinking before the next
6 thing that occurred, but in that situation -- we'll
7 never really know Mr. Taylor's mindset other than I
8 don't think he was afraid, because if he was afraid, he
9 wouldn't have left his residence. Scared people
10 usually don't leave their residence and leave their
11 loved one behind, from safety, especially when the
12 primary entry point was through a big garage door or
13 through that side door there, because the rear area is
14 screened in without a screen door. So to come in
15 through there, you'd have to defeat screens, which
16 would give you time. It would give you a reactionary
17 gap to retreat to another bedroom where you can then
18 barricade the door, if you wanted to, but you don't
19 have to because you're in your home.
20 MR. MYERS: Right.
21 LT. LEBID: You could do what you need to do then.
22 But that's not what happened.
23 So, yes, at this time the facts of the case
24 suggested to me that whatever happened outside of that
25 door after that initial contact was an entirely

(239) 245-8695
17
1 separate event.
2 MR. MYERS: Okay. So we're going to go to the
3 separate event in a second. But as far as the event --
4 the first event ending where Ryan Modell shows up at
5 the wrong apartment -- wrong townhouse, and he's at the
6 front door, that first event, we know -- or do you know
7 from your investigation that Mr. Taylor secured the
8 door such that Ryan was on the outside, and Mr. and
9 Mrs. Taylor were on the inside at some point during
10 that first incident?
11 LT. LEBID: Yes.
12 MR. MYERS: Do you know whether Mr. Taylor then
13 left his wife in the home to go out the front door
14 to -- to start to our second incident we're going to
15 talk about in a second?
16 LT. LEBID: Yes.
17 MR. MYERS: And -- but you don't know for sure
18 whether Mr. Taylor had the handgun with him at the
19 front door the first time, or whether he retreated,
20 obtained the handgun, and then went forward to track
21 down Ryan Modell?
22 LT. LEBID: Correct.
23 MR. MYERS: And if he did, he formed -- he took
24 the time to form an intent to pursue Mr. Modell for
25 whatever reason.

(239) 245-8695
18
1 LT. LEBID: Yes.
2 MR. MYERS: Did he ever admit to you that he -- he
3 had decided to go pursue Mr. Modell?
4 LT. LEBID: I don't think he phrased it like that.
5 I -- I'd have to refer --
6 MR. MYERS: Yeah.
7 LT. LEBID: -- to the transcript to --
8 MR. MYERS: Okay.
9 LT. LEBID: -- see how he phrased it exactly, but
10 he did go looking for him. And what confused me was
11 through -- through the initial criminal investigation,
12 and then later on the civil lawsuits, the transcripts
13 that I looked at where it tried to flesh it out in more
14 detail -- because during the criminal investigation,
15 when we actually obtained a statement from Mr. Taylor
16 with his attorney present, it was kind of limited.
17 MR. MYERS: Okay.
18 LT. LEBID: It was not -- I didn't get to
19 participate in it. The investigator that did it and
20 the supervisor that did it tried to elicit more
21 details, and the statement was very limited, in my
22 opinion.
23 MR. MYERS: And at the end of the first
24 incident -- that I am calling the first incident, did
25 Mrs. Taylor say anything about that she thought

(239) 245-8695
19
1 Mr. Modell might have been confused about which
2 townhome he lived in?
3 LT. LEBID: She did.
4 MR. MYERS: Did she say to the 911 operator that
5 he's probably confused because all of these houses look
6 alike?
7 LT. LEBID: Something like that. Something like
8 that, yes.
9 MR. MYERS: All right.
10 LT. LEBID: She -- she -- I remember her saying
11 that she thinks this guy is confused.
12 MR. MYERS: And -- and then what did the 911
13 operator tell them once -- she apparently is on the
14 phone at the same time -- hears that the front door has
15 been secured with Mr. Modell outside?
16 LT. LEBID: The 911 operator cautioned her that,
17 good, stay inside. The door's locked. You know, we
18 have people coming.
19 MR. MYERS: From your review of the 911
20 transcript, did it appear that Mr. Taylor and
21 Mrs. Taylor were inside the house at the time that the
22 911 operator gave that advice?
23 LT. LEBID: It was hard to tell. I listened to
24 it, and it was hard to tell because she -- you could
25 tell Mrs. Taylor was upset, and you could tell she was

(239) 245-8695
20
1 afraid, or she sounded like it to me.
2 MR. MYERS: Okay.
3 LT. LEBID: And she was who I primarily heard,
4 between her, Mrs. Taylor, and the 911 operator. I
5 never really -- I don't remember hearing Mr. Taylor
6 much in the background, but I remember her saying, "Oh,
7 he's outside. He's in the driveway."
8 "Tell him to come back inside."
9 And, okay, she agrees to do that. So at some
10 point she's telling him to come back in. So, again,
11 for the life of me, I can't understand why you would go
12 out, but that's what he did.
13 MR. MYERS: From your investigation, after the
14 first incident had come to some sort of end, did it
15 appear that Mr. Modell had left the front door and went
16 out toward the street?
17 LT. LEBID: Something to that effect because, like
18 I said, if you're looking at pictures of the structure,
19 as the sidewalk goes down, and you have your first
20 entryway to that second-floor unit, and then you have
21 your second entryway further back to the first-floor
22 unit, there's a little bit of a distance to where maybe
23 he was standing out there and just kind of trying to
24 look around the corner, maybe look around the bushes
25 and see if that guy was still there, which, again, if

(239) 245-8695
21
1 you're afraid, and you lock yourself in your door (sic)
2 to protect your wife and yourself because of your age,
3 your physical abilities, and whatever else, I don't
4 know why you go out looking for him. That's your
5 right. It's your property. You want to -- you rent
6 that property. You want to look around, go for it, but
7 how can you see behind you?
8 MR. MYERS: Give me an idea approximately what the
9 distance is from the Taylors' front door to the street
10 in front of their residence.
11 LT. LEBID: It's over 50 feet.
12 MR. MYERS: All right, just an idea.
13 LT. LEBID: Some -- something like that.
14 MR. MYERS: So it wasn't like 10 feet?
15 LT. LEBID: No.
16 MR. MYERS: And so then --
17 LT. LEBID: And it's pretty dark out there.
18 MR. MYERS: Now we're going to turn to where Ryan
19 Modell's murdered body was found. Approximately how
20 far from that front door was the body found? And "that
21 door" being the Jacksons' (sic) front door.
22 LT. LEBID: Okay. So if you're the Taylors, and
23 you're coming out of your door, the moment you walk out
24 of your door, you're going to see the next big
25 structure that's pretty much identical to yours. But

(239) 245-8695
22
1 there's that doorway where your unit -- where you would
2 access your unit, and then there's the next doorway
3 forward where you would access that second-store (sic)
4 unit, and then there's a corner; and that's where the
5 driveway begins because, again, you have these garages
6 that are in the front.
7 MR. MYERS: Big driveways for four different cars
8 to pull into four --
9 LT. LEBID: Right.
10 MR. MYERS: -- different spaces?
11 LT. LEBID: Right.
12 MR. MYERS: Go ahead.
13 LT. LEBID: So you'd have to turn the corner, and
14 then you'd have to continue down to where -- kind of
15 the middle of this very large driveway is where there's
16 garage doors now. So you couldn't see it from that
17 door.
18 MR. MYERS: Okay. It's around the corner.
19 LT. LEBID: Uh-huh.
20 MR. MYERS: So if it's approximately 50 feet to
21 the street, how far did Mr. Taylor have to move his
22 body to get to the point where Ryan Modell's body was
23 found? I realize there was movement --
25 MR. MYERS: -- before he was -- he was killed, but

(239) 245-8695
23
1 how far is that approximately?
2 LT. LEBID: I'd say it's approximately over a
3 hundred feet because of -- it's not like a straight
4 shot. You have to go down towards the street, you'd
5 have to make a left, and then you'd have to go through
6 the yard in -- into the driveway towards where Ryan was
7 found.
8 MR. MYERS: How long have you been in law
9 enforcement?
10 LT. LEBID: Since July 1st, 2004.
11 MR. MYERS: And in that 17 years, approximately,
12 have you become familiar with how to charge someone
13 with a crime?
14 LT. LEBID: Yes.
15 MR. MYERS: And did you become familiar with the
16 kind of laws that Florida has for the use and
17 brandishing of handguns?
18 LT. LEBID: Yes.
19 MR. MYERS: Okay. So just looking at a -- a
20 snapshot, if Mr. Taylor is outside with a handgun and
21 he's trying to find Ryan Modell, and he comes up to
22 him, and he shows him the handgun --
24 MR. MYERS: -- what do you call that, that action?
25 LT. LEBID: Well, depending on the scenario -- so

(239) 245-8695
24
1 leading up to that moment in time, Ryan just tried to
2 force his way into his house.
3 MR. MYERS: Right.
4 LT. LEBID: So Ryan is maybe trying to commit a
5 burglary, maybe Ryan is trespassing, whatever you want
6 to go towards that direction, but Mr. and Mrs. Taylor
7 were able to defeat that. They stopped it. So now
8 he's out looking for Ryan, and when he comes upon
9 Ryan -- and I'm not going to go too far because I
10 see -- I think I see where you're going with this.
11 Ryan is sitting Indian style. He's not committing a
12 crime.
13 MR. MYERS: And he's not on the -- the Taylor
14 property.
15 LT. LEBID: That could be debated. If you want to
16 say that large driveway that's shared by four units,
17 that's one of the -- that's part -- technically, they
18 have a right to part of that driveway because they're
19 renting that unit, but it's not even in -- it's not
20 that close to them, and it's beyond structures.
21 MR. MYERS: Was the witness that heard them
22 talking outside, or perhaps even arguing, was that
23 witness -- which is, I understand, a young man --
25 MR. MYERS: -- was he in that same structure as --

(239) 245-8695
25
1 LT. LEBID: Yes.
2 MR. MYERS: -- the Taylors?
3 LT. LEBID: Yes.
4 MR. MYERS: Okay. All right. So when -- perhaps
5 on his own property, when Mr. Taylor then came up to
6 Mr. Modell with a handgun, is that -- just in a
7 snapshot, is that a crime?
8 LT. LEBID: Not yet.
9 MR. MYERS: Not yet?
10 LT. LEBID: Not yet.
11 MR. MYERS: All right. What -- did it ever reach
12 the level of a crime before the trigger was pulled that
13 night?
14 LT. LEBID: That's what the biggest debatable
15 point was. When we -- when we submitted this
16 information to the State Attorney's Office, we
17 submitted it as an agency review, meaning here are all
18 the facts we gathered. Please look at it and tell us
19 what you think.
20 Now, there's that, and then there's submitting a
21 warrant request where you say I believe I have probable
22 cause to make an arrest, but I don't know where the
23 suspect is, or there's something else preventing me
24 from putting my hands on them, like maybe they're
25 barricaded in a house and armed so I can't just go and

(239) 245-8695
26
1 get them yet.
2 So we sent it in as a review with all the
3 details -- the lead detective did. So with those
4 details, he -- some of it was explained, but, again,
5 the initial statement was kind of narrow. When I say
6 "the initial statement," I'm not talking about when we
7 first spoke to him, and then he asked for an attorney.
8 I'm talking about when Mr. Taylor had his attorney
9 present, and Detective Hurd and at the time I believe
10 it was Sergeant John Desrosiers interviewed him. They
11 got some of the details.
12 But as you hear those details, I'm still baffled
13 because looking at that, and then later on looking at
14 the excerpts from the civil transcripts where it was
15 able to be spaced out a little bit more, you have
16 Mr. Taylor explaining how he saw Ryan, and he was
17 sitting Indian style or sitting on his butt washing his
18 foot off with a water hose. So then he tells Ryan to
19 leave. So I don't know if he's saying maybe I see him
20 trespassing, but Ryan's sitting on a driveway right
21 now, and you told your wife to call 911, so what are
22 you doing right now? He's not breaking into another
23 home. He's not stealing property. If you want to say
24 theft of utilities because he's using your water hose,
25 that's a big stretch. And, again, Ryan's wearing

(239) 245-8695
27
1 shorts, and now his sandals are off -- or maybe one is
2 still on. I don't know. I can't remember in that
3 moment in time. But I don't understand the brandishing
4 of a firearm at that moment because what crime are you
5 trying to prevent?
6 Now, if you're going to articulate, as a private
7 citizen, you -- you think there's a reasonable
8 suspicion to articulate that a crime is about to occur,
9 and you're trying to prevent that and defeat that?
10 Maybe, maybe. But that's like some really aggressive
11 neighborhood watch level stuff, and you're kind of
12 going into a weird area.
13 But then beyond that, after telling Ryan, "I have
14 a gun; you're in the wrong place," he now activates his
15 flashlight and starts aiming it in Ryan's face.
16 MR. MYERS: Isn't that assault and battery with a
17 lethal weapon?
18 LT. LEBID: Well, you can technically call it an
19 aggravated assault --
20 MR. MYERS: Okay.
21 LT. LEBID: -- because now he's pointing a gun at
22 him, and he's saying that he only said, "I have a gun;
23 you're in the wrong place, leave." Ryan didn't respond
24 to it. Ryan maybe started cursing at him, maybe used
25 some profanity, and then he decides now -- now I'm

(239) 245-8695
28
1 going to put on my laser on my handgun, and I'm going
2 to point the laser in your face because the flashlight
3 didn't do the trick.
4 I guess he was trying to get him to leave; but at
5 some point you think it would occur to you, if you have
6 the wherewithal to arm yourself and go hunting for
7 someone, and then use a tool with some fine motor
8 skills now -- because now you're trying to activate a
9 flashlight, now I'm going to switch to my laser, and
10 you've got target acquisition. The guy you're doing
11 this to was so belligerent before -- even your wife
12 said, "I think he's confused." So what are you doing
13 now with a guy who is confused who is unarmed? You've
14 now brought a gun into the situation, and you're in a
15 multiunit -- you're in a -- there's numerous people
16 around you. This isn't like you have acreage where
17 there's no trespassing. You know, "We have guns.
18 Don't come on our property. We'll kill you." This
19 is -- you're renting a unit that's a multifamily
20 dwelling. For all you know maybe that's the guy in the
21 other unit next door in the same quad as you that
22 you've never met yet. Maybe he has a right to be
23 there, and he's so out of his mind that he went right,
24 and he meant to go left. Which in this case it turns
25 out that he went this way when he meant to go across

(239) 245-8695
29
1 the street.
2 MR. MYERS: In your opinion, was that sufficient
3 probable cause to charge Mr. Taylor with either
4 illegally brandishing a firearm or with aggravated
5 assault just before he pulled the trigger?
6 LT. LEBID: At the time the -- with burgeoning
7 stand your ground, it was kind of a complicated
8 situation --
9 MR. MYERS: Oh, I understand that.
10 LT. LEBID: -- which is why we sent it in as an
11 agency review. How did I -- you're asking how I
12 personally felt about it?
13 MR. MYERS: Yeah, yeah.
14 LT. LEBID: Yeah, I personally felt that what
15 Mr. Taylor did was completely wrong and that it was a
16 homicide. That's how I personally felt.
17 MR. MYERS: And if I -- if you don't mind me
18 calling it a murder. Same thing as a --
19 LT. LEBID: No, it's a --
20 MR. MYERS: -- homicide.
21 LT. LEBID: -- murder. I believe he murdered this
22 person.
23 MR. MYERS: Unjustified homicide.
24 LT. LEBID: Yes. I get the right to protect your
25 property; but when you decide to rent a condo or a

(239) 245-8695
30
1 townhouse, and you're literally zero wall sharing with
2 people, you have to take into consideration there's
3 other people there that you may not want there. You're
4 going to hear everything. You're going to hear every
5 time they flush a toilet, every time they open their
6 garage door, have an argument. So now you think you're
7 justified to go after somebody in their bathing suit
8 who you've said is taller than you, they're bigger than
9 you, and they look like they could handle themselves.
10 So he knew they're in trouble if he gets his hands on
11 you with that gun. Why did you go looking for him with
12 a gun? What was in your mind?
13 MR. MYERS: And my point, from a legal point of
14 view, is was Mr. Taylor committing crimes just before
15 he pulled the trigger, and therefore doesn't get to use
16 the stand your ground --
17 LT. LEBID: My --
18 MR. MYERS: -- defense?
19 LT. LEBID: -- my opinion -- my opinion? Yes.
20 You have a guy -- and I don't want to say kid and
21 diminish the fact that this is a young man, but you
22 clearly know you're dealing with someone who's not all
23 there. And what I mean by "not all there," whether you
24 can smell the alcohol, or you can see the facial
25 expressions, like --

(239) 245-8695
31
1 MR. MYERS: Yeah.
2 LT. LEBID: -- it's not computing. They're not
3 understanding what you're saying to them. You're like
4 picking on a -- a lesser creature in that moment. It's
5 like kicking a dog or something. It just doesn't make
6 sense, especially when you're not even equipped to deal
7 with it at that moment. You are wearing shorts. You
8 have a handgun, and you don't have the lawful authority
9 where you're going to go after this guy. What were you
10 defeating? What were you stopping?
11 MR. MYERS: Right.
12 LT. LEBID: What crime were you preventing where
13 you're going to explain to me, as a citizen, you were
14 trying to effect a citizen arrest?
15 MR. MYERS: Does it shock you that Mr. Taylor was
16 never charged with any sort of murder-type crime?
17 LT. LEBID: It frustrates me.
18 MR. MYERS: It frustrates you.
19 LT. LEBID: It --
20 MR. MYERS: Do you regularly see facts like this,
21 where the person who pulled the trigger was not charged
22 with some sort of manslaughter, first-degree murder, or
23 some sort of charge like that?
24 LT. LEBID: This is a complicated situation, and
25 what I've learned during my time as a police officer is

(239) 245-8695
32
1 that we make our observations, and when we think
2 there's an ordinance or a law violated, we offer it up
3 to the State Attorney's Office -- even when we effect a
4 probable cause arrest -- like I see you do something,
5 and I arrest you, and then I bring you in and then you
6 go to court -- and we type everything up, we offer it
7 up to the State Attorney's Office, they can still drop
8 the charges. But I -- I haven't seen this before, no.
9 MR. MYERS: Okay. So this is the first time in
10 your career you've seen these sort of facts turn into
11 no charge at all?
12 LT. LEBID: Right. I -- and -- and -- and I defer
13 to the people that have way more experience than me,
14 that have been attorneys for a lot longer or police
15 officers a lot longer, and maybe they see -- see
16 something I don't. But me personally, this doesn't
17 make sense to me that this wasn't brought to -- I think
18 that's kind of the design of what court is, asking a
19 jury of your peers or authority figure in your area to
20 review these kind of actions -- because we didn't have
21 like a car crash where someone accidentally died. We
22 have someone who was shot to death. We have someone
23 whose life was taken from them. You can't go back on
24 that.
25 So I think -- I think that kind of needs to be

(239) 245-8695
33
1 reviewed by more than just me and a handful of people.
2 I think that's -- that's the time when I wanted a
3 community to weigh in to say do we agree with this
4 actions -- do we agree with these actions? Do we agree
5 with this behavior? Is this something that we're okay
6 with happening again and again? Because if we don't
7 bring it to that court, and we don't do anything with
8 it at all, what we're saying is here's a gray area.
9 Let's see how much further we can push it, or let's see
10 what happens again next time.
11 But that's just my opinion as an individual.
12 MR. MYERS: And in your opinion, there was more
13 than sufficient probable cause to charge a crime
14 against Mr. Taylor?
15 LT. LEBID: It's more complicated than that
16 because I'm just one person.
17 MR. MYERS: So explain. So --
18 LT. LEBID: Here's what I mean by that.
19 MR. MYERS: I'm asking your personal opinion --
20 LT. LEBID: My personal opinion --
21 MR. MYERS: -- but you're saying it's more
22 complicated.
23 LT. LEBID: -- my personal opinion is that my
24 detective did an investigation. I supervised the
25 investigation in conjunction with other supervisors.

(239) 245-8695
34
1 And through the process of reviewing the details of the
2 case, it was complicated because of -- we couldn't
3 flesh out an exact time and detail of everything. We
4 were limited on what we were able to learn because the
5 primary person involved is -- is alive and not speaking
6 to us with great detail, and the other person involved
7 is deceased. And we have a couple audible witnesses,
8 maybe saw a little bit of something, but nothing with
9 extreme detail.
10 MR. MYERS: But you were provided the deposition
11 transcript of Mr. Taylor from the civil cases, weren't
12 you?
13 LT. LEBID: Yes.
14 MR. MYERS: And did you read those at some point?
15 LT. LEBID: Yes.
16 MR. MYERS: Did that give you any more details
17 about what happened inside the Taylor household?
18 LT. LEBID: I personally felt that it extracted
19 more detail of similar facts, but it showed it more in
20 the logical stages, and it was able to give it a bigger
21 point of view. Whereas, I'd say before with the prior
22 statement, did he admit those things? Yes, a lot of
23 things were admitted, but it was kind of a narrow,
24 laser focus. I feel like the civil deposition, my
25 digestion of it, it made it broader --

(239) 245-8695
35
1 MR. MYERS: Okay.
2 LT. LEBID: -- and it made it a fuller picture
3 where it said more, to me, I don't think you can
4 justify leaving your locked house and then going to
5 look for someone who is now rinsing off their foot and
6 seated on the floor, point a gun in their face, point a
7 gun with a light, point a gun with a laser in their
8 face, and then only retreat by backing up in a shooting
9 stance, or however you did it, where you force the
10 conflict. And then your explanation is, well, if he
11 got the gun away from me, I would have been hurt. Why
12 did this happen at all? You asked for help. That's
13 what we do. That's what -- we don't -- we don't have a
14 duty to retreat, and not necessarily do you do anymore
15 because of how the law works, however, it doesn't make
16 sense. So I feel you need to answer for those actions,
17 and that's just my opinion, which is why we offer it up
18 higher.
19 MR. MYERS: Well, and in the case of Jackson (sic)
20 and Modell, do you remember whether back then, almost
21 five years ago, anyone in your department recommended a
22 particular charge against Mr. Jackson?
23 LT. LEBID: Taylor.
24 MR. MYERS: Taylor.
25 LT. LEBID: I know what you meant, Taylor.

(239) 245-8695
36
1 I don't recall anybody specifically saying to me
2 this is the charge we need to be filing, and we're not
3 doing it. We're doing this instead. I remember
4 hearing different conversations, and people saying,
5 "This doesn't add up. This doesn't make sense."
6 MR. MYERS: So it's just submitted for review,
7 basically, with --
9 MR. MYERS: -- the information.
10 LT. LEBID: (Nods head.)
11 MR. MYERS: And then do you recall what specific
12 response your department received from the State
13 Attorney's Office after asking it to review this case?
14 LT. LEBID: Eventually we received a written
15 memorandum, over a year later from the incident, where
16 it was kind of a summary of the facts and how the State
17 Attorney -- Assistant State Attorney assigned
18 understood it, and then what they believe occurred.
19 MR. MYERS: Okay. And so did the response also
20 include that there was a justifiable defense to -- for
21 the defendant to present in this particular set of
22 circumstances?
23 LT. LEBID: Yes.
24 MR. MYERS: And what was that defense, if you
25 recall?

(239) 245-8695
37
1 LT. LEBID: I don't recall off the top of my head
2 the exact verbiage, but basically the gist of it was he
3 was justified to protect himself --
4 MR. MYERS: Okay.
5 LT. LEBID: -- which still didn't make any sense
6 to me to this day, because looking at subject
7 factors -- I get it when you have someone bigger and
8 stronger and younger than you, and you're forced in the
9 situation, but you weren't forced in this situation.
10 You sought this situation out. You created this
11 opportunity. That's my opinion.
12 MR. MYERS: So you were -- you had some individual
13 involvement in the Taylor versus Modell case this
14 summer, this past summer of 2020, right?
15 LT. LEBID: Yes.
16 MR. MYERS: And what was that involvement?
17 LT. LEBID: My involvement was basically being
18 interviewed about my understanding of what occurred on
19 the day of Ryan Modell's murder, and how I understood
20 the facts surrounding it on that day and -- and beyond,
21 to a degree, when we tried to interview Mr. Taylor and
22 follow up with him. That was my involvement.
23 MR. MYERS: Okay. And what happened when your
24 office then presented it once again to the State
25 Attorney's Office in June of 2020?

(239) 245-8695
38
1 LT. LEBID: It was the same Assistant State
2 Attorney, and I got a -- I received an email eventually
3 saying after reviewing everything we -- you know,
4 there's -- we don't think there's any new facts, and it
5 doesn't change our initial findings.
6 MR. MYERS: What's the current status of the
7 investigation of crimes that Mr. Taylor may have
8 committed in March of 2016?
9 LT. LEBID: As of right now, the State Attorney's
10 Office has basically said he's -- he was justified to
11 do what he did.
12 MR. MYERS: So does that mean your case is closed?
13 LT. LEBID: I guess, yeah, to a degree, yeah. I
14 mean, it's closed -- it's -- yes, it's -- it's
15 inactive. It's closed because we gathered everything
16 we can gather. The only other thing that would be even
17 possible would be if we tried to do some kind of
18 controlled phone call and elicit -- elicit it out of
19 him, hey, you know, what do you think really happened.
20 That would be it.
21 MR. MYERS: There's no statute of limitations for
22 murder, is there?
23 LT. LEBID: No.
24 MR. MYERS: So if additional evidence was brought
25 to light to you regarding what happened on the night of

(239) 245-8695
39
1 March 20, 2016, what do you call it when you return to
2 the case? Reopening it, or what do you call it?
3 LT. LEBID: We -- we -- the case pretty much is
4 always -- that's when you start debating the verbiage
5 of a cold case that gets reopened. So it's just an
6 unsolved homicide. It's an unsolved murder. The
7 argument could be made that, no, it was solved. All
8 the facts were presented, and the legal authority said,
9 based on what you've presented to us, it was a
10 justifiable homicide, so therefore it is a closed case
11 and it's a justified homicide.
12 MR. MYERS: And you knew who the prospective
13 defendant was, right, for this case?
14 LT. LEBID: (Nods head.)
15 MR. MYERS: And that would be Mr. Taylor.
16 LT. LEBID: Yes, sir.
17 MR. MYERS: And you knew that he pulled the
18 trigger and murdered Mr. Modell, right?
19 LT. LEBID: Yes.
20 MR. MYERS: And you know when it happened and
21 where it happened.
22 LT. LEBID: Yes.
23 MR. MYERS: So, like you said, it's not really
24 unsolved. It's just --

(239) 245-8695
40
1 MR. MYERS: -- that whether there's a
2 justification for his actions.
3 LT. LEBID: Right. And the current ruling on it
4 is that it was justified.
5 MR. MYERS: Okay. Do you ever recommend what type
6 of charge to make in a murder investigation?
7 LT. LEBID: Sometimes we do.
8 MR. MYERS: All right.
9 LT. LEBID: It varies. There's a lot of factors
10 that play into it that -- they range in a variety of
11 ways.
12 MR. MYERS: Let me go ahead and put on the record
13 your credentials. So would you summarize for me your
14 educational background leading up to your current
15 position with the Lee County Sheriff's Office?
16 LT. LEBID: I graduated University of South
17 Florida with my bachelor's degree in criminology in
18 2004. After that, I went to the Southwest Florida
19 Public Safety Academy where I completed my basic
20 training to become a police officer. I've taken
21 hundreds of other hours of classes, advanced classes,
22 to do what I do. I've been through a medicolegal death
23 investigator school through Miami-Dade. I've gone
24 through the Force Science Institute of basic
25 certification and understanding -- it's basically

(239) 245-8695
41
1 kinesiology and how these factors play into use of
2 force resulting in death. I went back for my master's
3 degree through Barry University and achieved that in
4 the field of administration. And any time I can take
5 additional classes, I do; but based on my position now
6 as a lieutenant, my job is to try and foster and mentor
7 the people that are coming up and get them the advanced
8 schooling.
9 So for -- for, God, three or four years -- the
10 past three or four years, I was on our International
11 Homicide Investigators Board. So I would go to
12 different conferences on homicide, on uses of force, on
13 different issues that were currently going on in the
14 nation. But this last year it's just been so busy,
15 especially with COVID-19 and all that, I've had to pull
16 back from that and just focus on all my
17 responsibilities here.
18 On top of that, I'm assigned to our part-time SWAT
19 team as an operator. I've also been to their advanced
20 school where I'm one -- I'm a sniper. So I have a
21 variety of different tactics and training that -- over
22 my time period.
23 MR. MYERS: Are you related by blood or marriage
24 to Ryan Modell?
25 LT. LEBID: No.

(239) 245-8695
42
1 MR. MYERS: Okay. And just in a general sense,
2 how many homicide investigations have you participated
3 in while at the Lee County Sheriff's Office?
4 LT. LEBID: Over a hundred. I started working
5 them in 2013, and depending on the year, we either
6 had -- we range from 13 to 30. Like last year we're
7 going to probably end around 29 for the year.
8 MR. MYERS: If I may summarize what I believe to
9 be your overall testimony today, is it your opinion,
10 based on your training and experience, that
11 Mr. Taylor's actions constitute murder, as defined
12 under Florida law, in which there was no reasonable
13 defense presented, in your opinion?
14 LT. LEBID: Yes.
15 MR. MYERS: In your opinion, was Mr. Taylor
16 standing his ground or defending his property at the
17 time he pulled the trigger and murdered Ryan Modell?
18 LT. LEBID: No.
19 MR. MYERS: Thank you. I have no further things
20 to ask you today. I appreciate your cooperation and
21 time.
22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the record.
23 This is the end of the Lieutenant David Lebid video
24 recorded statement.
25 (Statement ended at 2:50 p.m.)

(239) 245-8695
43
2 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
4 STATE OF FLORIDA )
5 COUNTY OF LEE )
7 I, Deborah Bruns, Florida Professional
8 Reporter, do hereby certify that I was
9 authorized to and did report the foregoing
10 statement, and that the transcript, pages 1
11 through 42, is a true and correct record of my
12 stenographic notes.
13
14 Dated this 21st day of January, 2021.
15
16
17 _______________________________
Deborah M. Bruns, FPR
18
19
20 (This transcript was electronically signed.)
21
22
23
24
25

(239) 245-8695

Video Recorded Statement of Lieutenant David Lebid

Uploaded by

Document Information

Original Description:

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

Video Recorded Statement of Lieutenant David Lebid

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

1

2 VIDEO RECORDED STATEMENT

4 LIEUTENANT DAVID LEBID

7 Lee County Sheriff's Office

10 January 20, 2021, at 2:00 p.m.

13 R. Frank Myers, Esquire

22 ACCURATE REPORTERS, LLC

ACCURATE REPORTERS, LLC

2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are on the record. This is

3 the video recorded statement of Lieutenant David Lebid.

4 We are located at 14750 Six Mile Cypress, Fort Myers,

5 Florida, 33912. Today's date is January 20th, 2021,

6 and the time is approximately 2:03 p.m.

7 My name is Richard Guin, certified deposition

8 video specialist. The court reporter is Debbie Bruns

9 from Accurate Reporters, LLC.

10 Could the court reporter please swear in the

12 THE REPORTER: Would you raise your right hand to

13 be sworn. Do you swear or affirm to testify to the

14 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

15 LT. LEBID: I do.

16 MR. MYERS: Good afternoon. My name is Frank

17 Myers. I am Sandy Modell's attorney here to talk to

18 you about an event that occurred almost five years ago.

19 What is your full name?

20 LT. LEBID: David Michael Lebid, L-E-B-I-D.

21 MR. MYERS: Mr. Lebid, do you understand that I am

22 having this conversation recorded, digitally recorded,

23 and the video could be shown to someone else?

24 LT. LEBID: Yes, sir.

25 MR. MYERS: Thank you.

ACCURATE REPORTERS, LLC

1 What is your current business address?

2 LT. LEBID: 14750 Six -- which is spelled out,

3 S-I-X -- Mile Cypress Parkway in the city of Fort

4 Myers, state of Florida, 33912.

5 MR. MYERS: If someone were looking to contact

6 you, what phone number would they use to call you?

7 LT. LEBID: The main phone number is 239-477-1000;

8 and if you needed my direct desk phone number, it's

10 MR. MYERS: All right, thank you.

11 Were you one of the homicide detectives assigned

12 to investigate the death of Ryan Modell back in March

14 LT. LEBID: Yes.

15 MR. MYERS: And back then, in March of 2016, was

16 there a murder as far as you are concerned here today?

17 LT. LEBID: Yes.

18 MR. MYERS: In other words, in your professional

19 opinion, did James Taylor murder Ryan Modell on March

21 LT. LEBID: After gathering the facts, my

22 understanding of it was yes.

23 MR. MYERS: So back then did you participate in

24 conducting a thorough investigation of the facts that

25 were underlying Ryan Modell's murder?

ACCURATE REPORTERS, LLC

1 LT. LEBID: Yes.

2 MR. MYERS: Would you just, in summary, tell me

3 what efforts were -- were made by your department in

4 order to investigate the death.

5 LT. LEBID: During the inception of that event,

6 which occurred in the late -- late night/early morning

7 hours into March 20th, so around 2:29 a.m. is when we

8 finally received the phone call -- when I say "we