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r/science • 14 hr. ago

Posted by woebegonemonk

People who eat meat (on average)

experience lower levels of depression and
anxiety compared to vegans, a meta-
analysis found. The difference in levels of
depression and anxiety (between meat
consumers and meat abstainers) are
greater in high-quality studies compared
to low-quality studies.
Psychology

sapienjournal.org

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intensing • 14 hr. ago

"Researchers, however, caution against imputing
causal relationships between meat
consumption/abstention and depression or
anxiety"

It would be very interesting to see what the

cause of it is, because those studies only show
correlation. Maybe the consciousness of the
animal suffering? That fact that usually
vegans/vegetarians are also activists? The social
aspect of it (people who judge you, eating out
being conditioned,etc)?
5.4K Reply 5

nnomadic Grad Student | P… • 14 hr. ago

https://www.psypost.org/2021/08/anxiety-
disorder-symptoms-are-more-common-
among-those-with-left-wing-political-views-
in-great-britain-61713

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/u
nique-everybody-else/202109/the-
unexpected-relationship-between-ideology-
and-anxiety

Perhaps this is in the same vein? People that

care, generally, tend to be more anxious. It's
empathy.
3.2K Reply 2

PurlToo • 12 hr. ago

In my personal anecdote: I was facing a lot of
anxiety over the state of our planet and
really lamenting how futile the little things I
was doing were towards saving the planet.
Okay so I quit plastic straws. The yeah island
floating through the Pacific is mostly cast off
fishing next, not plastic straws.

I learned the greatest impact I could have on

saving the environment was to go vegan. I
planned a slow transition, completely
skipped over that and was vegan over the
course of one weekend because how could I
continue to eat animal products when I knew
how much it is damaging the planet.
348 Reply

Nobroam • 11 hr. ago

Am vegan, can attest to this. The biggest
thing that makes me sad is the enormous
amount of suffering our society enacts on
animals, the second biggest is the fact that
no one seems to care. I’d guess it’s similar
for other vegans.
290 Reply

Enthused_Llama • 12 hr. ago

Yeah I mean the easiest 'but what about'
question to ask is that people who commit to
veganism are probably more stressed on
average about things like the animal industry.
67 Reply

FullMetalBasket • 12 hr. ago

Over the years I've become convinced
research related to mental health or wellness
is pretty much only correlating data.
Depression as a physiological mechanism is
a long way off from being functionally
uunderstood.
46 Reply

sm9t8 • 11 hr. ago

There's a (disputed) statistic that 84% of
vegetarians go back to eating meat.

That's going to need to be controlled for

because you could have very different
conclusions between long term vegetarians
who are satisfied with their diet, and people
who are living on cheesy pasta for three
months before they give up.
22 Reply

OutsideObserver • 11 hr. ago

I mean I'm just an anecdote but I definitely
become a vegetarian as a result of
depression, and not the other way around.
There are many aspects of being vegetarian
which are depressing - for me knowing that
my efforts are a drop in the bucket
compared to international conglomerates
mass-producing industrial food products,
destroying the environment, and
compromising our collective health - I won't
be a part of it. I'm still depressed by I'm far
less depressed - would be interesting to see
severity of depression because I went from
REALLY depressed to "the world still sucks
but I have a code now"

There is a separateness that comes from

that. No matter how understanding you are
about other people's choices, when you say
"I don't do A because of legitimate reasons",
it makes people not want to be around when
they do A. For people who eat meat it falls to
different sides of over-defensiveness ("OH
where's your real food? Oh sorry looks like
you accidentally got a plate of what my food
eats. I'll eat two animals to make up for the
one you're not eating" etc. to them being
uncomfortable because they feel guilty
eating meat in front of you.

It's a weird thing. It's funny how little I think

about how I eat 99% of the time except
when omnivores bring it up.
44 Reply

W1ll0wherb • 12 hr. ago

Just being a data point here, I know n=1
doesn't mean anything statistically, but I was
depressed at least a decade before I was
vegan and I'd say an awareness of
everything wrong with the world contributed
to both
60 Reply

coriandor • 11 hr. ago

I don't think that's true that most
vegans/vegetarians are activists. I am one
and know a lot of them and we're all just
living our lives out here. You're tacitly
purpetuating the stereotype of the vegan
crusader.
45 Reply

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ISayISayISay • 14 hr. ago

OK, but does abstaining cause greater
depression or are those who expereince greater
depression more likely to already be, or become,
abstainers?
16K Reply 9

SwipeOfTheFob • 14 hr. ago

The paper doesn't consider this but includes
advice to carry out more rigorous studies in
the future. The authors note that data on this
topic is broadly muddy and of poor quality
and seem leery of assigning narratives to
what's going on

I'd guess that among vegetarians there are

more people with explicit objections to the
status quo & that this will contribute to
depression and anxiety. Is it better to be a
vegetarian dissatisfied than a meat-eater
satisfied?
8.2K Reply 3

Jonah_the_Whale • 12 hr. ago

"Researchers, however, caution against
imputing causal relationships between meat
consumption/abstention and depression or
anxiety (the data was insufficient to
investigate causal relationships)."

From the article.

358 Reply

Writerlad • 11 hr. ago

Maybe vegans are more likely to be
depressed about how fucked the world is?

Edit: surprising number of people are

offended by vegans.
441 Reply 3

[deleted] • 12 hr. ago

BakeThis • 11 hr. ago

This is what I wonder. Vegans are usually
doing so for animal welfare and therefore are
probably more likely to be conscious of the
evils of the world.
283 Reply

Raptorman_Mayho • 13 hr. ago

Also is it because abstainers are likely more
invested and aware of climate impacts and
the fact the world is passing the point of no
return is very depressing whereas as meat
eaters are likely less focused on this
530 Reply

drsteelhammer • 11 hr. ago

Veganism predicts higher education which
alone also predicts higher psychological
dissatisfaction/unhappiness
124 Reply

IronicEyeCancer • 13 hr. ago

I mean, being consciously aware of all the
suffering of billions of animals might have
something to do with depression.
159 Reply

[deleted] • 13 hr. ago

Snoo-70564 • 11 hr. ago

I think there’s good evidence for the latter
hypothesis. About 80% of American vegans
are women, and women are statistically more
likely to have depression and anxiety
compared to men. I would hope that they
make these diet comparison studies gender-
balanced considering that it’s more difficult
to find male vegans.
55 Reply

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fireflydrake • 11 hr. ago

Is that because of what they're eating, though,
or are underlying differences what leads to the
choice to go vegetarian / vegan? I eat meat, but
how many of us completely mentally disconnect
from the horrors most meat animals go through
on commercial farms? Perhaps those who ping
as depressed or anxious are more willing to look
at those horrors head on, leading them to eat
less meat, rather then the other way around?

Edit: to clarify, it could be any of a lot of things,

so more research is needed. Does meat offer
some essential nutrient that helps combat
depression? Do people with anxiety and
depression have more empathy and thus find
eating meat harder to justify? Or does learning
about the realities of commercial farming make
people, aside from wanting to become
vegetarian, also feel more anxious / depressed
about the state of the world? There's a lot of
possibilities here and it'll be interesting to see
what more research reveals.
1.2K Reply 2

liquidmirth • 10 hr. ago

That’s an interesting thought. Maybe they
are generally more sensitive and attuned to
other’s suffering and go vegan/vegetarian
because of it. There was a post about
empathy and having a hard time watching
others perform poorly socially making it hard
to watch the office or other cringe inducing
shows. Sounds like an interesting theory to
me
257 Reply

AMGwtfBBQsauce • 8 hr. ago

This reminds me a lot of that study posted
here a few days ago where they used
recently vaccinated (0-21 days) and long-
term vaccinated (22-42 days) people to
determine correlation of serious side effects
with vaccination. They didn't used
unvaccinated people as a control because
there was a high potential of sociological
factors to taint their selection.
3 Reply

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[deleted] • 10 hr. ago

Gastronomicus • 14 hr. ago

A meta-analysis of 11 studies reveals a small but
mostly consistent effect size. No causal
mechanism proposed or tested and the authors
are clear that none should be inferred. They also
note that:

"Finally, limited reporting of participant

characteristics prevented an examination
of several covariates (e.g., BMI, age of
diet adoption/length of diet, clinical
history, socioeconomic status, culture)
that could potentially contribute to
between-studies heterogeneity."

The take-home message here isn't that eating

meat makes you happier - it's that ominvores
seems less prone to depression and anxiety. I
think we can speculate many reasons why this
might be the case. For example, people who
commit to non-meat lifestyles are more
concerned about the environment and/or ethics
of killing animals. This may translate into greater
general anxiety and/or depression induced by
increased attention to social imbalances. I am
not a psychologist so perhaps someone with
that experience could chime in and provide more
concrete examples.
828 Reply

ZeroGrav4 • 12 hr. ago

I'd also add that being a vegan/vegetarian in
a society that eats a lot of meat is difficult -
as in logistically and socially difficult -
regardless of your reasons.

You have to read labels, plan out your meals,

and be "that person" when out and about
who can't just eat what everyone else is
eating.

I can understand if the day to day reality of

making that choice induces some anxiety.
422 Reply

anon_tonya • 12 hr. ago

Also, while they included studies that
covered international locations (as long as
they were published in English), I don't see
any analysis comparing vegetarians/vegans
in locations where it's a cultural norm (parts
of India, for example) to areas where it's
typically frowned upon (American rural
regions).

Another commenter on here pointed out this

study was funded by the cattle industry.
While the paper itself seems fair in pointing
out the limitations of their analysis, this
headline certainly doesn't convey that
message.
44 Reply

Passing_Thru_Forest • 12 hr. ago

They also don't have to deal with being
asked why they're vegan/vegetarian by
groups of people only to have them talk
about how they could never give up meat
and then talk about all their favourite meat
dishes for the next 20 minutes.
90 Reply

Traditional-Newt4172 • 14 hr. ago

Not an academic either but it’s the first
thought that occurred to me too.
33 Reply

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[deleted] • 13 hr. ago

luneunion • 14 hr. ago

Well, Gen Z and Millennials are more likely to be
depressed than previous generations and they
are more likely to be vegan. The article didn’t
say they trapped for age.

So, to me, this reads: generations that are more

aware of how our system functions (factory
farms, blood diamonds, the promotion of
consumerism for its own sake, inequality under
the law, etc, etc) are deeply concerned about
the system, the climate, the economy, and their
future in general and they suffer more from
depression related to these stressors.
Additionally, they are more likely to take personal
action they perceive may help themselves and
others (including animals).
524 Reply 2

sonofjim • 10 hr. ago

Completely agree with this statement. I’m a
Millennial and I have tons of friends that are
starting to question and challenge the
societal norms that older generations have
tried passing on to us. I, like a lot of my
friends, are plant based, environmentally
conscious, non-religious, and not wanting to
have kids because of the consequences our
actions have on the future. It does get quite
depressing at times being so aware of what
actually is happening in the world instead of
being blissfully unaware.
97 Reply

HolyRamenEmperor • 9 hr. ago

Exactly. You don't make a dramatic lifestyle
change—like dropping a foundational food
group from your diet—if you believe
everything is sunshine and rainbows.
26 Reply

mattholomew • 5 hr. ago

“Researchers, however, caution against
imputing causal relationships between meat
consumption/abstention and depression or
anxiety”
3 Reply

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sarcasmismysuperpowr • 12 hr. ago

I became a vegetarian two years ago for climate
change reasons. I also feel depressed because
of climate change. Possibly there is another link
here…
499 Reply 1

ubermeisters • 9 hr. ago

study finds concerned people are

more concerned than people who
aren't concerned

82 Reply

JesterGE • 10 hr. ago

I was about to post this… most vegetarians I
know are worried about the environment and
are extremely anxious and depressed
because they see our world falling apart in
the mews day by day. I feel like a lot of them
do take a lot of ‘responsibility’ personally
and that’s part of why they are not eating
meat.
94 Reply

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TooOnlinePerson • 11 hr. ago

Hm, I wonder why people concerned about
animal welfare and the environment to the point
they change their lifestyle to try and help would
have higher levels of anxiety and depression.
125 Reply

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SilverSorceress • 10 hr. ago

I don't see a pool size of participants nor do I
see the age range or average. Did they take into
consideration that many vegans are younger
(age 20ish to 40ish) and that studies have
shown more individuals in that generation span
are more prone to depression and anxiety due to
other factors? Seems like a generally flawed
study (and yes, that's coming from a meat
eater).
42 Reply

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NotDrT • 12 hr. ago

It would be great to have a crossover cohort,
assess initial anxiety/depression levels between
the 2 groups based on diet, then have meat
consumers adopt a vegan diet for x amount of
time, and find vegans who are willing to try an
omnivorous diet as well. As they noted in the
article, if vegetarians/vegans are mostly
motivated by ethics or environmental concerns
they might have a higher rate of anxiety or
depression completely unrelated to diet.
37 Reply

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Choice-Layer • 10 hr. ago

The people that become/are vegans are
probably thinking more about the planet and its
inhabitants.
78 Reply

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[deleted] • 13 hr. ago

Hi-archy • 10 hr. ago

I wonder if that’s because vegans tend to care
more about the world / animals too
44 Reply

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han-Tuso • 11 hr. ago

Are you telling me that people who felt so bad
about the meat industry that they decided to
became vegan have a lot of empathy therefore
are constantly depressed and anxious in a world
that is built on mountains of bodies and hatred.

Who would've thunk it

117 Reply

4 more replies

[deleted] • 12 hr. ago

Pierre_39 • 10 hr. ago

Young people are more likely to be vegan.

Young people are more likely to be on the wrong

side of the widening wealth gap.
47 Reply

1 more reply

asiangontear • 14 hr. ago

UD, SA, JA, and GW have previously

received funding from the Beef Checkoff,
through the National Cattlemen’s Beef
Association. The sponsor of the study
had no role in the study design, data
collection, data analysis, data
interpretation, or writing of the report.

Edited to include the statement after.

273 Reply

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mr_auer • 13 hr. ago

This could easily be explained by the reasons for
going vegan. Realizing that humans are causing
cruelty and suffering on a massive scale against
conscious creatures that are helpless to improve
their lot, is not something that makes you wanna
cry out from joy.

Then when you also realize that most people do

not even care or think about what is behind their
bacon or steak, well, that does make one at least
a little depressed for sure. Not to mention the
role the meat industry has on climate change -
being the single largest contributor to human
emissions, does not make it any better.

Disclaimer: I have been a vegetarian for about

25 years, and a vegan for many of those years.
My reasons for this are also environmental, but
the main reason is I do not want to cause more
suffering than is necessary, and eating animals
is not necessary for me. And also personally, I
have suffered from depression and anxiety, and I
feel that it is in part or mostly due to how I see
the state of our civilization, and what I feel is
wrong with it.

This is also true for how humans treat other

humans, in many cases. These are totally
related. Do to others what you would like done
to you.

What comes to dietary reasons, I cannot of

course speak for anyone else, but I have always
researched my diet and supplemented B12 and
Vitamin D, consume multiple different vegetable
protein high foodstuffs, I have had bloodwork
done several times over the years and my health
has always been good - especially blood lipids,
cholesterol etc . Im in good physical shape,
exercise daily, cycle to work and for fun, eat a
varied and plentiful diet, so I do not think my diet
could be lacking in anything as to cause
depression.
170 Reply

EDaniels21 • 11 hr. ago

Another factor I'm curious about could be
social isolation. Anecdotal of course, but I
know someone who's struggled to find a
long term relationship and part of this I think
is related to her being vegan in a region
where that's very uncommon. As someone
who has recently been looking into
vegan/vegetarian diets, this is truly one of
the things that's hardest for me. My wife is
understanding, but not fully on board and my
child doesn't like vegan meals as much.
That's before trying to account for friends
and eating out. It seems very easy to feel like
a bit of an outsider in a culture that kinda
revolves around food as part of almost every
social gathering. I'd be curious to see further
studies into differences for vegans in
broader vegan communities vs those going
vegan more independently.
26 Reply

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Speedr1804 • 12 hr. ago

I wonder if a correlation can be drawn to these
vegans being hyper aware of the issues of the
meat industry (and likely broader
industries/world) and meat eaters being content
to look away
66 Reply

tsuki1313 • 10 hr. ago

I'd wager that the extended empathy for
animals and awareness of their plight of
being treated as a commodity in our world
has a lot to do with it. Add onto that the
social alienation and staunch apathy for
"food animals" that the majority of people
around us present, and it is no surprise at all
that there might be higher levels of
depression amongst vegans.

As a related anecdote, I no longer have a

relationship with my own Dad because I
politely asked him not to make jokes about
animal suffering and death at my expense.
He took that as a personal insult and
attempted to ostracize me from my entire
family. So... Yeah.
14 Reply

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bewhole • 6 hr. ago

Maybe it is a fact that ignorance is bliss
4 Reply

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einstein_quote • 12 hr. ago

I went vegan because I'm depressed and
anxious about the climate emergency tho
21 Reply

SirEarlBigtitsXXVII • 10 hr. ago

Is this due to a direct link between meat
consumption and depression, or perhaps vegans
tend to have a greater sense of empathy and are
thus more likely to experience depression?
46 Reply

9 more replies

francisdavey • 12 hr. ago

Having any kind of selective diet, for any reason,
imposes a load (including cognitive, financial
and temporal) that is very likely to increase
anxiety, depression and other negative factors
as far as I can see.

I have for health reasons a fairly restricted diet.

It resembles a vegan diet in many respects
because quite a few of the things I avoid are
animal/dairy etc. I have to spend more time
checking food out when buying it, have more
limited choice in restaurants and cafes, cannot
always buy the cheapest food and just generally
have to think about it.

My diet isn't vegan - so I am extrapolating - but I

can well imagine this sort of thing being
problematic.
50 Reply

pdxcranberry • 11 hr. ago

Yeah, I'm a diabetic and having a diet that
others you is a constant source of stress. I
literally think about food and my next meal
and sugar levels 24/7.
12 Reply

pilvlp • 9 hr. ago

Anecdotal as is your post, but I do not
experience this whatsoever. I also have a
highly restrictive diet that focuses mainly
around white meats(fish, chicken, turkey. I
purposely avoid red meat). A lot foods,
including fruits and vegetables, I can not
have due to fructose content. I do not
consume any dairy either.

I am far happier in general with my dieting as

compared to not dieting.
6 Reply

todobueno • 11 hr. ago

Yeah this is my experience too. I've moved
between different restrictive diets over the
last 5 or 6 years, including 100% plant