An episodic memoir podcast by Michele Lee

Death is coming for us all. When a Hmong-Australian writer interviews

her ageing parents about how they would like to die, she has to face their
mortality and hers, and the ubiquitous presence of ghosts.
Michele's at a crossroads—on the verge of turning 40, scared to
pursue writing full-time, and worried about how to parent her 3-
year-old. During February 2020, as Australia veers from
bushfires to the pandemic, Michele calls her parents every day
for 30 minutes to talk about their lives and about their deaths.

This episodic podcast chronicles these February 2020 phone-

calls, day by day. Michele’s figuring out a few things: how to
prepare for her parents’ inevitable death, how they've dealth with
death here and in Laos, and her own views on death. And in
asking her parents about death, Michele is also learning about
their lives, things she’s only discovering for the first time.

Woven through the phone-calls are fictional moments: younger

versions of Michele’s parents and of Michele, and a Ghost
Woman seeking revenge. In Hmong culture, the presence of
spirits and ghosts is an everyday part of life.

The podcast ends with a fictional funeral decades later for

Michele's Mum and Dad. The whole podcast was, in a sense,
Michele’s imagined eulogy and a tribute. It's also a reconciliation
with the horrors of life —large and small—and the acceptance
that ghosts are very very real.
Michele
In February 2020, when Michele recorded the phone-calls, she was 39 going
on 40. Michele was born and raised in Australia, and is the ‘weird’ one in her
family. Michele is a writer and has a desk job to pay the bills.

Mum and Dad

Chu Lee (Michele’s Dad) is in his early 70s and Koua Lee (Michele’s Mum) is
around the same age too. It’s hard to say exactly how old they are because
the Australian government made up their birth dates when they arrived.

Chu’s quite factual yet also slips into a doddy-riness. Koua’s more poetic and,
like many older migrants, wears her misery very visibly.

We will hear present-day Chu and Koua only in the excerpts from the phone-
calls except for an appearance in the final episode. In the phone-calls, Chu
speaks English and Hmong. Koua speaks mainly Hmong.

Young Mum and Dad

These characters are Mum and Dad across all the years up until February
2020—from their child selves to their older selves—in fictionalised scenes.

Although Young Mum and Dad are ageless, they are also like high school
archetypes. Young Dad is the entitled but clueless rich kid and Young Mum is
a bad-ass rebel girl from the shit side of town. These characters have a
Western edge to them. For example, there won’t be accented voices.
Young Michele
She’s Michele across all ages, from child up until February 2020.

Ghost Woman
The Ghost Woman is a trope in Hmong horror films. In life she was pretty
screwed over and in death she is vengeful or pained. In this podcast, she
also represents the spiritual beliefs of the Hmong; shamans, animism, the
constant negotiation with the spirit world.

Grandma
Mum’s mum, who died when Mum was little. Grandma’s soul is present in a
totemistic doll.

Yeng
Michele’s 3-year-old son.
Ep1— What about the mee-mows?
(Phone-calls: Sat 1 Feb 2020 to Tue 4 Feb)
Michele begins the phone-calls and ends up speaking only
with her Dad to start with. She finds him frustrating—how
should she approach the topic of death, where does one
begin when they’re not close to their parents? Meanwhile,
Michele encounters Ghost Woman at the local farmer’s
market. Michele starts to revisit her belief in ghosts—are
they real?
Ep2—City boy/Country girl
(Phone-calls: Wed 6 Feb to Sun 9 Feb)
Young Dad is in the big city of Vientiane. But he returns
frequently to the countryside and tries to woo Young Mum.
Despite the reluctance from Grandma, Young Mum accepts
Young Dad’s proposal. In the present day, before Michele
finishes one of her phone-calls, Mum drops a bombshell on
her: Dad was a player and has a kid from a Laotian
girlfriend.
Ep3—The Hmong way…to make ghost
films
(Phone-calls: Mon 10 Feb)
Michele mediates with Mum and Dad about Dad’s secret
kid. On the set of imaginary Hmong horror blockbuster,
as Michele’s future career soars as Australia’s pre-
eminent Hmong-Australian screenwriter, Michele chases
Ghost Woman into the jungles of time and history.
Young Mum and Young Dad struggle as newly-weds in
Laos. Grandma warns that the war is ending and that
Young Mum will have to cross the river.
Ep4—Welcome to Australia
(Phone-calls: Tue 11 Feb-Wed 12 Feb)
The Ghost Woman captures Michele’s son, Yeng, but
Michele crosses a portal and saves him. Yeng, however,
is merrily playing with the Ghost Woman. The Ghost
Woman tells her story—and it’s the history of all Hmong
people. In the present day, as Michele continues the
phone calls, she realises how lonely 1980s Canberra
was for Mum and Dad.
Ep5—The brother I don’t speak to
(Phone-calls: Thu 13 Feb to Sun 16 Feb)
Dad can’t remember when Peter, Michele’s eldest brother,
went to hospital and nearly died. Is Dad deliberately
forgetting? Michele seeks some understanding of the
situation through Mum. Mum knows all too clearly what
happened. Peter nearly died—once when crossing the
Mekong River and then here, many years later, in Australia.
Young Mum ends up in hospital for a stroke, and she says
goodbye to Grandma forever.
Ep7—The secret to living a good life
(Phone-calls: Sat 22 Feb to Sat 29 Feb)
It’s 2035. Michele meets her siblings to organise the
funeral for Mum and Dad. She sends them off to a crowd
filled with all the loved ones—alive and those dead too—
from across Mum's and Dad’s life. The funeral is a
celebration; Michele is now ready to face death. Michele
sees Mum’s and Dad’s ghosts as the funeral ends—
Michele knows that ghosts are here, and we’re
passengers in their journey as much as they are in ours.

Ep6—To all my dead people Each episode might be about 30 minutes.

(Phone-calls: Mon 17 Feb to Fri 21 Feb)
Michele has conversations with all the people she’s known
who’ve died. When she calls home, her Dad admits he was
always a stranger in his family. He mourns for a life he never
had. Young Dad imagines an alternate life where he wasn’t
separated from his family. Young Mum misses him, actually.
And Michele mourns too, experiencing their loss and grief.
Michele learns about Mum’s last trip to Laos, where she
confronted her spirits and released them into the Mekong.
This episodic podcast mixes Michele’s narration, the actual phone-calls, and actors playing Young Mum, Young Dad,
Young Michele, Ghost Woman and Grandma in fictionalised scenes.

Scenes in Laos might have the backdrop of rural countryside with the occasional ute chugging by and the constant rustle of
the jungle, or place us in the lazy bustle of Laotian towns. Scenes in Australia might be confined to the safety of the home
or sometimes we’ll hear Young Mum and Dad navigating the impenetrable, disorienting English-speaking world. The Ghost
Woman is where we’ll evoke sounds of horror—suspenseful soundtracks, ritualistic Hmong-style instruments playing,
chanting, heavy breathing, screams.

This podcast will switch between moods of contemplativeness, intimacy, the authenticity of hearing the real voices, and the
heightened sonic nature of the ghost world.

Here's a sample of HOW DO I LET YOU DIE? on Soundcloud.

HOW DO I LET YOU DIE? is culturally specific and will give
insights into the relatively unknown Hmong community. It also
allows the audience to get familiar and intimate with the lives of
two people—older Asian migrants—that may usually be
invisible to most people.

It’s a work too about universal themes. The fear of death.

When we’re born, it means we’ll die. Yet many people, across
cultures, fear the inevitable. The evolving relationships
between children and parents. As we age, the dynamic
between our parents starts to shift. We view our parents in new
ways. Death adds another dynamic.

This podcast will appeal to people in a similar age, of all

cultural backgrounds, who are looking at themselves in the
mirror and picking out the new grey hairs and then having their
heart catch a little when they realise how much older their
parents are looking.

The podcast will appeal to Australian listeners but can also find
audiences overseas, particularly where there are other Asian
diaspora communities.
Michele Lee, writer and creator
Michele is a Hmong-Australian writer working across stage, live
art, audio and screen. Her work is largely narrative-focused, in
comedy and drama and explores stories of women, otherness
and found families.

Michele has been writing for audio for the last ten years. Her
previous audio works include: BROTH BITCH (Melbourne
Fringe Festival, 2020); SINGLE LADIES NOW (Red Stitch
Theatre, 2020); THE NAKED SELF (2018, 2016); GOING AND
GOING (Radio National, 2015); TALON SALON (Next Wave
Festival 2012, You Are Here Festival 2013, Darwin Festival
2013); and SEE HOW THE LEAF PEOPLE RUN (Radio
National, 2012; Winner, 2013 Radio AWGIE).

For Michele’s stage work, she has been nominated for or won
Australia’s most prestigious awards such as Queensland
Premier’s Drama Award, Victorian Premier’s Literary Award,
Australian Writers’ Guild stage drama award, Nick Enright Prize
and the Patrick White Award.

The development of the HOW DO I LET YOU DIE? podcast was supported by the
On Air program (Audible/Screen Australia/AWG) and was shortlisted for the 2021
Jesse Cox Audio Fellowship. Thanks to audio producer Jess Hamilton for her
guidance. And to Kim Daly for graphic design.

michelevanlee@gmail.com
www.michelevanlee.com.au

Ghost Woman in the cover image: Koj dag kuv tuag Ep 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjx8bWqg22s
Ghost Woman image: Kou Thao talks about his new Hmong horror movie "CHIM TXOG HNUB TUAG 2” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-oUhhsgeOo