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115768-Non-linear-analysis

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Thread: Non-linear analysis

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2010-03-14, 03:17 PM #1
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brhm
Non-linear analysis Yes
Member
Hi,
Join Date: 2009-10 I have tried to make a non-linear analysis (geometric deformations) for a "large" structure (20772 nodes with
Posts: 22 bars, plates etc) and the results are suspicious.

I used first the incremental algorithm and I got minor bending moments than the linear analysis..
I changed to the Arc-length (poor documented...) the results were better or more logic.

I used first 5 load increment steeps. The results: Internal forces 20% higher than the lineal analysis but also the
applied loads were 20% higher (from the reactions table results).
Where do this loads come from???? I have used the same load all the time!

Then I used 10 load steeps and got 10% higher internal forces and applied loads.
30 steeps; 3% higher
50 steeps; 2%
100 steeps almost the same than the lineal.

If you don't have notice the ROBOT algorithm for 2nd order analysis seems to be:
Results_2nd_order = Results_1s_order x [1 + 1/ (load steeps)]

I have even read in a doctoral thesis that "ROBOT cannot perform analysis of second order att all".

Some body know better than me about this subject?

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2010-03-16, 12:46 PM #2
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Tomasz.Fudala
Re: Non-linear analysis Yes
100 Club
Please contact technical support through Subscription Center.
Join Date: 2008-06 Don't forget to attach a file with your structure.
Posts: 110

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2010-03-22, 10:14 AM #3
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pascal.bogdan
Re: Non-linear analysis Yes
Active Member
Hi,
Join Date: 2010-03 Where did you found some documentation about non-linear analysis with Robot Structural Analysis?
Posts: 69

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2010-03-22, 11:44 AM #4
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brhm
Re: Non-linear analysis Yes
Member
Hi Bogdan,
Join Date: 2009-10 That is the problem the lack of documentation...there are several members of this forum tryng to perform this
Posts: 22 kind of analysis...
I send my model to the support team and I'am waiting for comments.

That I found was a paper where the autor compares the results of second order analysis from several programs
againts the method of amplification of moments included in the AISC.
It is known that the amplification of moments approach is a conservative and approximately method and the
results of this comparation could be expected.

1 of 4 17/07/2014 03:12 PM
Non-linear analysis http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?115768-Non-linear-analysis

Any way here is the link:

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/ava.../AMSThesis.pdf

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2010-03-23, 08:01 AM #5
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smm.144
Re: Non-linear analysis Yes
100 Club
brhm thanks for the information. The document is about Robot Millennium.(I have not completely read it yet..)
But Robot algorithm since Millenium to RSAP has not changed?
About the first post are you able to model the structure in another software to compare results?
Please let us know if any new information you have..

Join Date: 2010-01

Posts: 144

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2010-03-26, 10:02 AM #6
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brhm
Re: Non-linear analysis Yes
Member
I got help from a team from Autodesk support net. Here comes some tips:
Join Date: 2009-10
Posts: 22 1) “Method of solving the system of equations”
How many of you did know about this possibility?
When I set this option to “Skyline” the results were correct.
To set this option, choose from the menu: "Tools", "Job preferens", "Structure analysis"
-But Autodesk: with method will work better for a certain structre?

2) ”Calculation report”
Did you know that you can see how “much correct” is your analysis?
Bring up the report from you analysis (after calcultation of course); from the menu choose: “Analysis”,
“Calculation report”, “Full note”
Look at Precision value; large number here (>1) indicates a good precision, = 1 is not acceptable; for low
precision you get instability of type 3 and when you accept that you must assure that the results are according to
your expectation

3) I performed a static non-linear analysis (because of geometrical deformations and linear materials) I
performed the incremental method. Just with 5 load increments (“Load increment number”) and it worked.
I got help from a team from Autodesk support net.

1) “Method of solving the system of equations”

How many of you did know about this possibility?
Where when I set this option to “Skyline” the results were correct.
To set this option, choose from the menu: "Tools", "Job preferens", "Structure analysis"

2) ”Calculation report”
Did you know that you can see how “much correct” is your analysis?
Bring up the report from you analysis (after calcultation of course); from the menu choose: “Analysis”,
“Calculation report”, “Full note”
Look at Precision value; large number here (>1) indicates a good precision, = 1 is not acceptable; for low
precision you get instability of type 3 and when you accept that you must assure that the results are according to
your expectation

3) I performed a static non-linear analysis (because of geometrical deformations and linear materials) I
performed the incremental method. My structue with 5323 nodes and bars, shells, etc. worked with just 5 load
increments (“Load increment number”).

I attach the in a PDF respective screen shots.

Autodesk: Don’t you think it’s time to give us a real user manual, please?

Attached Files
Non_linear.pdf (55.7 KB, 174 views)

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2012-02-26, 12:04 PM #7
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diming
Re: Non-linear analysis Yes
Member
brhm thanks for your post
Join Date: 2010-04 2 years have past since your post, is there any example of non-linear analysis out from autodesk?
Location: Greece
Posts: 5

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2012-03-26, 08:58 PM #8
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enggrazi823687
Re: Non-linear analysis Yes
Woo! Hoo! my 1st post

2 of 4 17/07/2014 03:12 PM
Non-linear analysis http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?115768-Non-linear-analysis

hello all, it sounds like all of us are suffering from the same problem on daily basis. As someone has mentioned
that this is the time for Autodesk to undertake the vaildity of results of Robot Structural seriously and look in
possible ways of correcting it ASAP. We do understand that all structural analysis softwares have evolved in their
Join Date: 2011-10 current state over the years and it requires patience as well. However, since Autodesk has taken up this software
Posts: 1 on board, I am sure that the outcome will be good but we all have to wait and see. Keep calm and carry on

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2012-03-29, 05:04 PM #9
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rigid_joint
Re: Non-linear analysis Yes
Member
autodesk never really loved robot
Join Date: 2010-09
Posts: 16

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2012-07-05, 12:49 AM #10

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kmarsh
Re: Non-linear analysis Yes
I could stop if I wanted to
Robot documentation is quite thorough and detailed with respect to the methods of analysis. Here are some
selected articles:

Theoretical Basis for Modal Analyses:

http://docs.autodesk.com/RSA/2013/EN...F04CCC4D5.htm?
Non-linear vs. P-Delta Analysis
Join Date: 2005-09 http://docs.autodesk.com/RSA/2013/EN...84F87843A.htm?
Location: Somerville, MA Theoretical basis of methods used during structure dynamic analysis
Posts: 285 http://docs.autodesk.com/RSA/2013/EN...F04CCC4D5.htm?
Defining criteria for convergence:
http://docs.autodesk.com/RSA/2013/EN...3128665253.htm

As far as validity of the results, I just recently discussed the above mentioned thesis with our support folks and it
has been 10 years since the paper mentioned was written. Not only have we confirmed that, as far back as we
can easily go (release-wise), Robot is, in fact, able to provide non-linear analysis for the structures presented in
the above referenced paper but Robot has also improved significantly since then. We quickly re-did the
experiement presented in the paper and found that Robot's results were very close to other published results.
Below are forces and moments obtained for Frame 4 using linear analysis (case 4), 2nd order (case 5) and 3rd
order (case 6) nonlinear analysis. You will find that Robot calculated moments are in the same range with other
analysis results provided.

non-linCase4.jpg

I would encourage folks to follow the setup in the article and run the experiements for yourself. They're fairly
straightforward and I think that going through the exercise yourself is worth much more.

Please don't hesitate to ask more questions, Robot is a very powerful analysis and design program and we want
you to be successful with the software. There are also a lot of other users who have been working with it and can
help answer questions.

Thanks again,
-Ken

Last edited by kmarsh; 2012-07-11 at 06:46 AM. Reason: wrong links :(

Ken Marsh
Owner, Marsh API

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