2016-08-03 - (Grand, Julie) Final REDACTED - Condensed

Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order - Deposition of Julie Grand - 8/3/2016
In Re: National Hockey League Players' Concussion Injury Litigation
Page 1
1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
2 DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA
3
4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
5 In re: National Hockey League MDL
6 No. 14-2551 (SRN/JSM)
7 Players' Concussion Injury
8 Litigation
9 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
10
11
12
13
14
15 Videotaped deposition of JULIE GRAND, was
16 held at the Law Offices of SKADDEN, ARPS, SLATE,
17 MEAGHER & FLOM, LLP, Four Times Square, New York,
18 New York, commencing August 3, 2016, 9:02 a.m., on
19 the above date, before Amanda McCredo, a Court
20 Reporter and Notary Public in the State of New York.
21
---
22
23
24
25
Benchmark Reporting Agency

612.338.3376
Page 2 Page 4
1 A P P E A R A N C E S: 1 Exhibit 8 E-mail from Julie Grand to Bill 104
2 SILVERMAN, THOMPSON, SLUTKIN & WHITE Daly, Bates-stamped NHL1626501
Attorneys for Plaintiffs 2
Exhibit 9 E-mail from Julie Grand to Bill 132
3 201 N. Charles Street, Suite 2600
3 Daly dated May 24, 2010,
Baltimore, Maryland 21201 Bates-stamped NHL2110271 through
4 BY: STEPHEN G. GRYGIEL, ESQUIRE 4 273
sgrygiel@mdattorney.com 5 Exhibit 10 151
5 (410)385-2225 6 Exhibit 11 E-mail from Ruben Echemendia to 166
6 Winne Meeuwisse dated June 1,
7 GOLDMAN SCARLATO & PENNY, P.C. 7 2010, Bates-stamped NHL2243154
through 159
Attorneys for Plaintiffs
8
8 Eight Tower Bridge, Suite 1025 Exhibit 12 E-mail from Ruben Echemendia to 179
161 Washington Street 9 Julie Grand dated June 4, 2010,
9 Conshohocken, Pennsylvania 19428 Bates-stamped NHL1669037 through
BY: BRIAN D. PENNY, ESQUIRE 10 039
10 penny@lawgsp.com 11 Exhibit 13 E-mail from Ruben Echemendia to 182
(484)342-0700 Bill Daly and Julie Grand dated
11 12 September 24, 2010, Bates-stamped
NHL2135004 through 006
12
13
13 SKADDEN, ARPS, SLATE, MEAGHER & FLOM LLP Exhibit 14 E-mail from Willem Meeuwisse to 186
Attorneys for Defendants 14 Julie Grand dated October 29,
14 Four Times Square 2010, Bates-stamped NHL2087294
New York, New York 10036 15 through 298
15 BY: JAMES A. KEYTE, ESQUIRE 16 Exhibit 15 E-mail from Julie Grand to Bill 201
MATTHEW LISAGAR, ESQUIRE Daly dated March 2, 2011,
17 Bates-stamped NHL1787804
16 MATTHEW M. MARTINO, ESQUIRE
18 Exhibit 16 E-mail from Julie Grand to Gary 203
james.ketye@skadden.com Meagher and Bill Daly dated
17 matthew.lisagar@skadden.com 19 October 5, 2011, Bates-stamped
matthew.martino@skadden.com NHL182010 through 11
18 (212)735-3000 20
19 Exhibit 17 E-mail from Julie Grand to Bill 209
20 21 Daly dated February 10, 2012,
21 ALSO PRESENT: Bates-stamped NHL2304283 through
22 284
22 MANNY GARCIA - videographer
23 Daly dated May 1, 2012,
24 24 Bates-stamped NHL2254667
25 25
Page 3 Page 5
1 INDEX 1 Exhibit 19 E-mail from Julie Grand to Ruben 221
2 WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE Echemendia and Winne Meeuwisse
3 Julie Grand Mr. Grygiel 3, 391 2 dated August 2, 2012,
4 Mr. Keyte 386 Bates-stamped NHL1783125 through
5 3 143
6 EXHIBITS 4 Exhibit 20 E-mail from Julie Grand to Gary 222
7 PLAINTIFFS' PAGE Bettman dated August 7, 2012,
8 Exhibit 1 E-mail from Julie Grand to Bill 43 5 Bates-stamped NHL2132286 through
288
Daly dated February 11, 2008,
6
9 Bates-stamped NHL 1971101
Exhibit 21 E-mail from Julie Grand to Ruben 228
10 Exhibit 2 Document entitled CWG Meeting 54
7 Echemendia dated September 18,
Summary: May 1, 2012 2013, Bates-stamped NHL2236425
11 Bates-stamped NHL2275298 through 8 through 427
303 9 Exhibit 22 NHL/NHLPA Concussion Subcommittee 233
12 Meeting November 4, 2013, 8:00
Exhibit 3 E-mail from Ruben Echemendia to 59 10 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. Westin Diplomat
13 Willem Meeuwisse Bates-stamped - Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood, FL
NHL1352051 through 057 11 Minutes, Bates-stamped NHL0247818
14 through 826
Exhibit 4 Concussion - retired player study 66 12
15 from Julie Grand to Bill Daly Exhibit 23 E-mail from Dave Dryden to Julie 240
dated March 13, 2008, 13 Spar-Grand and Terry Kane,
16 Bates-stamped NHL2267898 Bates-stamped NHL2335906 through
17 Exhibit 5 E-mail from Ian Penny to Andrew 78 14 907
Wolfe and others dated January 15 Exhibit 24 E-mail from Julie Grand to Bill 248
18 28, 2009, Bates-stamped Daly, Bates-stamped NHL1827376
NHLPA_0001308 to 10 16 through 379
19 17 Exhibit 25 E-mail from Frank Brown to Julie 255
Grand dated September 11, 2006,
Exhibit 6 Concussion Report BOG Meeting 89
18 Bates-stamped NHL1975700
20 Dec. 2009, Bates-stamped
19 Exhibit 26 E-mail from Bill Daly to Julie 283
NHL2081309 through 1315
Grand dated January 26, 2012,
21 20 Bates-stamped NHL2062819 through
Exhibit 7 Minutes of a Meeting of the Board 101 820
22 of Governors of the National 21
Hockey League held at the Inn at Exhibit 27 E-mail from Julie Grand to Gary 288
23 Spanish Bay, Pebble Beach, 22 Bettman and others, dated March
California on December 15-16, 8, 2011, Bates-stamped NHL0231896
24 2009, Bates-stamped NHL0209404 23 through 897
through 416 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 6 Page 8
1 Exhibit 28 E-mail from Ruben Echemendia to 301 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the start of
Julie Grand dated November 15,
2 2013, Bates-stamped NHL2315339 2 media labeled Number 1 of the video recorded
through 344
3 3 deposition of Julie Grand in the matter of in re
Exhibit 29 E-mail from Colin Campbell to 308
4 Julie Grand and others dated May 4 National Hockey League Plaintiffs' Concussion
16, 2013, Bates-stamped
5 Injury Litigation on August the 3rd, 2016 at
5 NHL0130619 through 620
6 Exhibit 30 E-mail from Ruben Echemendia to 318 6 approximately 9:02 a.m.
Julie Grand dated September 14,
7 2007, Bates-stamped NHL2131171 7 My name is Manny Garcia. I'm the video
through 172
8 8 legal specialist from Benchmark Reporting Agency.
Exhibit 31 E-mail from Julie Grand to Bill 321
9 Daly dated September 13, 2007, 9 The court reporter is Amanda McCredo in
Bates-stamped NHL2066067 through
10 association with Benchmark Reporting Agency.
10 069
11 Exhibit 32 E-mail from Julie Grand to Steve 322 11 Counsel, please introduce yourself.
Pellegrini dated November 8,
12 2007, Bates-stamped NHL2469756 12 MR. GRYGIEL: Good morning. Steve Grygiel
through 759
13 13 from Silverman Thompson in Baltimore for the
Exhibit 33 E-mail from Julie Grand to Steve 324
14 Pellegrini dated April 1, 2008, 14 plaintiffs.
Bates-stamped NHL1791667
15
15 MR. PENNY: Brian Penny from Goldman
Exhibit 34 E-mail from Bill Daly to Gary 326 16 Scarlato & Penny for the plaintiffs.
16 Bettman dated October 1, 2010,
Bates-stamped NHL2475474 17 MR. KEYTE: James Keyte for the NHL and
17
Exhibit 35 E-mail from Bill Daly to Gary 329 18 the witness.
18 Bettman dated October 2, 2010,
Bates-stamped NHL1723000 19 MR. LISAGAR: Matt Lisagar for the NHL.
19
Exhibit 36 E-mail from Jule Grand to Sean 332
20 MR. MARTINO: Matt Martino for the NHL.
20 MacLeod dated October 15, 2010, 21 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Would the court
21 273 22 reporter please swear in the witness.
22 Exhibit 37 E-mail from Gary Bettman to Bill 335
Daly dated April 10, 2011, 23 JULIE G R A N D, the witness herein, after
23 Bates-stamped NHL0516458 through
459 24 having been first duly sworn by a Notary
24
25
25 Public of the State of New York, was
Page 7 Page 9
1 Exhibit 38 E-mail from Gerry Townend to 339 1 examined and testified as follows:
Julie Grand dated May 20, 2013,
2 Bates-stamped NHL2071340 through 2 EXAMINATION BY
1343
3 MR. GRYGIEL:
3
Exhibit 39 E-mail from Julie Grand to Gary 343 4 Q Good morning, Ms. Grand.
4 Meagher dated December 15, 2011,
Bates-stamped NHL1793860 5 A Good morning.
5 6 Q As you know, I'm Steve Grygiel
Exhibit 40 E-mail from Julie Grand to Beth 349
6 Chartoff dated January 21, 2013, 7 representing the plaintiffs. I know you're
7 931 8 familiar with the process, but nonetheless, we
8 Exhibit 41 Handwritten documents, 358 9 will go through the rules of the road.
9 590 10 I'm sure you understand, this only works
10 Exhibit 42 E-mail from Julie Grand to Ruben 361
Echemendia and Willem Meeuwisse
11 if we speak one at a time, right?
11 dated September 17, 2013, 12 A Yes.
12 996 13 Q Okay. And it's also important that your
13 Exhibit 43 Letter to Senator Blumenthal from 373
14 responses be verbal, since waves of the hand and
Commissioner Gary B. Bettman
14 dated July 22, 2016 15 nods of the head don't translate very well to the
Daly dated March 17, 2008, 16 record. Understood?
16 Bates-stamped NHL2060686 through 17 A Yes.
689
17 18 Q If you don't hear a question that I ask,
Exhibit 45 E-mail from Julie Grand to Gary 380
18 Bettman dated April 4, 2008, 19 let me know and I'll do my best to make it
Bates-stamped NHL2231587 through 20 audible for you, okay?
19 589
20 Exhibit 46 E-mail from Bill Daly to Gary 384 21 A Okay.
Bettman dated March 9, 2011,
21 Bates-stamped NHL1983530 through 22 Q And perhaps more likely, if you don't
531 23 understand a question that I ask, let me know,
22
23 24 and I'll do my best, if I can, to make it
24
25 intelligible to you, all right?
25

612.338.3376
Page 10 Page 12
1 A Yes. 1 A Yes.
2 Q Are you taking any medications that would 2 Q Fully comfortable and ready to proceed?
3 impair your ability to testify fully and 3 A Yes.
4 truthfully today? 4 Q You're a graduate of the University of
5 A No. 5 Michigan?
6 Q Are you under any legal constraints that 6 A Yes.
7 would impair your ability to testify fully and 7 Q And your degree was in economics?
8 truthfully today? 8 A Yes.
9 A No. 9 Q What year did you get out?
10 Q Are you aware of any limitations on your 10 A '91.
11 ability to testify today? 11 Q At Michigan, did you study statistics?
12 A No. 12 A I took a class in statistics.
13 Q Have you taken depositions in the past? 13 Q Did you take any courses in
14 A Yes. 14 neurochemistry?
15 Q Approximately how many? 15 A No.
16 A One. 16 Q Did you take any courses in biochemistry?
17 Q And what kind of a case was that? 17 A No.
18 A It was the Derek Boogaard litigation. 18 Q Did you take any, what they call hard
19 Q And that was with Bill Gibbs? 19 science courses, such as oh, organic chemistry?
20 A Yes. 20 A No.
21 Q And have you been deposed before? 21 Q Did you do any premedical training at all?
22 A Yes. 22 A No.
23 Q How many times? 23 Q Did you take any courses in epidemiology?
24 A Oh, once. 24 A Not that I recall.
25 Q In what case was that? 25 Q When you graduated from Michigan, you went
Page 11 Page 13
1 A Now I'm wondering what your prior question 1 to UPenn?
2 was. My lawyers are looking at me like I 2 A I did.
3 answered it wrong. 3 Q Was there an interim there?
4 MR. KEYTE: No, no. 4 A No.
5 Q I thought that when you took a deposition 5 Q So you went straight to UPenn?
6 in the Boogaard case, you were deposed in the 6 A For law school, yes.
7 Boogaard case. 7 Q And you graduated, then, in 1994?
8 A I was deposed. 8 A Correct.
9 MR. KEYTE: I was wondering. 9 Q When you were at Penn, did you take any
10 A I didn't take a deposition. 10 courses in statistics?
11 MR. KEYTE: I was wondering if you took a 11 A No.
12 deposition in the Boogaard case. 12 Q When you were at Penn, did you take any
13 A No, I was -- my deposition was taken, yes, 13 courses in law in economics?
14 yes. 14 A Not that I recall.
15 MR. KEYTE: Yeah. 15 Q When you were at Penn, did you take any
16 Q Is that the only time you've been deposed? 16 courses in pharmaceutical regulation?
17 A Yes. 17 A No.
18 Q Okay. And have you ever taken -- 18 Q And after you left Penn, you came straight
19 A Now I have to listen to your questions 19 to Skadden?
20 more carefully. 20 A I did.
21 Q That's okay. Most people don't. 21 Q And you were working in the antitrust
22 Have you ever taken depositions yourself? 22 department?
23 A No. 23 A Yes.
24 Q You're familiar, then, with the rules of 24 Q And you were working with Shep Goldfein?
25 the road here today? 25 A Among other people.

612.338.3376
Page 14 Page 16
1 Q Were you working with James Keyte at the 1 Q So it's fair to say you worked on a broad
2 time? 2 array of substance areas, correct?
3 A He was one of the people. 3 A Yes.
4 Q And you worked on the NFL case involving 4 Q In fact, fair to say that you have said in
5 the move of St. Louis Cardinals? 5 the past, no two days are really ever alike
6 A It was one of the things that I worked on. 6 unless you work on the collective bargaining
7 Q And you got to know Shep and James pretty 7 agreement for weeks at a time?
8 well in that process? 8 A And I don't think those days were probably
9 A In addition to other people. 9 alike then either.
10 Q And Bill Daly was already at the NHL at 10 Q Lots of different demands on your time?
11 that time? 11 A Yes.
12 A Bill Daly left Skadden in '97. 12 Q When you came to the NHL in 1999, your
13 Q And after he went to the NHL after you had 13 title was deputy general counsel, wasn't it?
14 been at Skadden, he called you over, correct? 14 A Yes.
15 A I went to the NHL in '99. 15 Q And in 2002, you added the title of vice
16 Q When you got to the NHL in 1999, had you 16 president?
17 done any work for the NHL as a lawyer at Skadden? 17 A I did. I don't recall if that was the
18 A I had. 18 year, but that sounds about right.
19 Q What work was that? 19 Q And sometime after that, you became senior
20 A Let me see if I can specifically remember. 20 vice president and deputy general counsel,
21 There was a tampering matter that I had 21 correct?
22 worked on, a tampering investigation. 22 A Correct.
23 Q And by that you mean of one club of 23 Q Do you have any other titles at the NHL?
24 another player's clubs -- or another player's -- 24 A No.
25 another club's players? 25 Q Now, when you came to the NHL in 1999, you
Page 15 Page 17
1 A Yes. 1 were aware that the initial phase of the
2 Q Anything else? 2 concussion study was underway, correct?
3 A I'm not sure if I have a recollection. 3 A Yes.
4 Q When you got to the NHL in 1999, what was 4 Q That it had begun in 1997?
5 your scope of duties? 5 A Yes.
6 A When I started my job? 6 Q And that was under the stewardship, among
7 Q Yeah. 7 others, of Dr. Chip Burke?
8 A I was working on collective bargaining 8 A Yes.
9 matters. So providing advice to our clubs and to 9 Q When you came to the League in 1999, were
10 the League on the collective bargaining 10 you given a specific charge of overseeing that
11 agreement. Working on administration of the 11 project from the NHL's perspective?
12 collective bargaining agreement, working with the 12 (Telephonic interruption.)
13 Players' Association on collective bargaining 13 MR. KEYTE: Object as to form.
14 matters, whether in the context of discussing new 14 A I don't think I would describe that from
15 issues or addressing issues under the collective 15 the outset. Not in my sole -- you know, that
16 bargaining agreement. Working a number of those 16 wasn't my -- I wasn't the only person who was
17 matters, included health and safety-related 17 working on that from a league perspective. There
18 matters. Working on litigation that arose. And 18 were others who I worked on it with at a league
19 working on other matters for the commissioner at 19 level.
20 his request, whether that's club disputes or 20 Q And who were those people?
21 issues between clubs. There was a broad array 21 A When I first started, Kate Jones was
22 of, of, of matters that I was working on. Other 22 there, I believe, and she also, at a league
23 things that would come up with other departments 23 level, was kind of overseeing and working with
24 in the League that I would work on and give 24 the physicians on the head injury project, I
25 advice to. 25 think it was called at the time. And Bill Daly

612.338.3376
Page 18 Page 20
1 was also actively involved in overseeing that 1
2 project. And I would also say that Brian O'Neil, 2
3 also, throughout time, has also been actively 3
4 engaged with our team physicians and the injury 4
5 committees and Team Physicians Society with the 5
6 projects that they've done. Those are probably 6
7 the primary people. 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 19 Page 21
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 22 Page 24
1 1 MR. KEYTE: I've never said it that way,
2 2 so...
3 3 Q And you've spoken with Winne Meeuwisse
4 4 about player brain safety?
5 5 A I have.
6 6 Q And you've spent a fair bit of time
7 7 talking with him about that issue, haven't you?
8 8 A I have.
9 9 Q And you've spoken, of course, with John
10 10 Rizos of the PA, correct?
11 11 A I have.
12 12 Q And you've spoken with him about brain
13 13 safety on many occasions, right?
14 14 A I have.
15 15 Q And you have no reason to doubt that
16 16 Dr. Rizos takes player brain safety very
17 17 seriously, right?
18 18 A No reason to.
19 19 Q Okay. And of course, you've spoken with
20 . 20 Dave Dryden about it?
21 21 A I have.
22 22 Q And you have spoken with other, with other
23 23 members of what was first called the injury
24 24 analysis panel, correct?
25 25 A Correct.
Page 23 Page 25
1 1 Q And you've spoken with members of the
2 2 health management panel, right?
3 3 A Correct.
4 4 Q And with members of the Concussion Working
5 5 Group, correct?
6 6 A Correct.
7 7 Q And the joint health and safety committee,
8 8 right?
9 9 A Correct.
10 10 Q There have been a number of working groups
11 11 that have looked at the issue of player brain
12 12 safety over the years, right?
13 13 A Absolutely.
14 Now, during the course of your work at the 14
15 NHL, you spent a fair bit of time talking with 15
16 people about player brain safety, haven't you? 16
17 A I have. 17
18 Q And you've spent a fair bit of time 18
19 talking to Ruben Echemendia about it? 19
20 A I have. I would say his name differently, 20
21 but I have. 21
22 Q Echemendia? 22
23 A Echemendia. 23
24 Q Echemendia. I apologize. I'll get that 24
25 wrong more than once today. 25

612.338.3376
Page 26 Page 28
1 1 Q Okay. And you have drafted presentations
2 2 for the Board of Governors of the National Hockey
3 3 League concerning player brain safety, correct?
4 4 A Correct. And for the general managers.
5 5 Q I was just going to say. And with the
6 6 general managers, right?
7 7 A Correct.
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 27 Page 29
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 Q And in working on that issue, you've 12
13 worked with other PA personnel than the ones I've 13
14 identified, right? 14
15 A Correct. 15
16 Q You've worked with Ian Pulver? 16
17 A Correct. 17
18 Q And you've worked with Paul Kelly? 18
19 A Yes. 19
20 Q You've worked with Maria Dennis? 20
21 A Yes. 21
22 Q You don't have any reason to doubt that 22
23 any of those people don't take player brain 23
24 safety very seriously? 24
25 A I do not. 25

612.338.3376
Page 30 Page 32
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13 Q Fair to say you've been the NHL executive
14 14 office's point person on the question of player
15 15 brain safety, as I've described it?
16 16 MR. KEYTE: Object as to form.
17 17 A So, you're using a term "brain safety."
18 18 I'll just say, that it isn't a term that I
19 19 generally use to describe what I do. And so
20 20 maybe that's what I'm a little uncomfortable
21 21 with.
22 22 Q If I use "concussions," does that help?
23 23 A Yes. We use the term "the concussion
24 24 program."
25 25 Q Okay.
Page 31 Page 33
1 1 A Okay.
2 2 Q Fair to say, fair to say that, fair to say
3 3 that you've been the NHL executive's office point
4 4 person on the concussion program?
5 5 A Yes.
6 6 Q If fact, no one in the NHL executive
7 7 office has spent as much time on that issue as
8 8 you, correct?
9 9 A That's probably a fair statement.
10 10 Q Now, in terms of looking at the concussion
11 11 program, the concussion program has looked at a
12 12 number of ways of helping to improve players'
13 13 head safety, correct?
14 14 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad.
15 15 A A number of ways -- repeat the question.
16 16 Q Sure. The concussion program, to use your
17 17 words, has looked at a number of different ways
18 18 of helping to promote players' head safety and
19 19 brain safety, correct?
20 20 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
21 21 A I'm not, I'm not sure that's a fair
22 22 statement.
23 23 Q Let me break it up.
24 24 One of the areas the concussion program
25 25 has looked at is playing equipment, correct?

612.338.3376
Page 34 Page 36
1 A Not really, no. 1 Q Sure. One of the things you were looking
2 Q You didn't discuss that with Dave Dryden? 2 at is getting information.
3 A So -- but Dave Dryden was the injury 3 So, for example, the playing rules, if
4 analysis program -- 4 they need to be, can be modified to promote
5 Q I know. 5 player safety?
6 A -- so I wouldn't call Dave Dryden the 6 A I'm sorry, your first statement dealt with
7 concussion program. I think it's a question of 7 education, and your second statement just dealt
8 what group is looking at what area. And so I'm 8 with rules. So, I'm not sure you're repeating --
9 not, I'm not trying to, like -- 9 could you just read back the -- or can you --
10 Q Haven't you participated in discussions 10 Q Scratch that.
11 about whether or not shoulder pads should have 11 MR. KEYTE: Yeah, there's, like, two
12 certain padding on them to help reduce the impact 12 questions at the same time.
13 on head hits? 13 Q I'm not interested.
14 A I have, and that's in the context of the 14 One of the areas you've looked at is the
15 protective equipment subcommittee. 15 question of studying retired players, correct?
16 Q Okay. So, equipment has been one area 16 A Who's the "you"?
17 that the concussion program has looked at? 17 Q You.
18 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 18 A Oh, me personally?
19 A Again, again, you're calling the 19 Q Yes, you. That's why I said "you."
20 concussion program. So, when I, when I refer to 20 A Okay.
21 the concussion program, I refer to the concussion 21 MR. KEYTE: I'll object on foundation
22 subcommittee. 22 grounds.
23 Q Okay. 23 A It had -- yes.
24 A Okay. And the concussion subcommittee is, 24 Q And you have discussed that with
25 is a group that we have of -- a specific group, 25 Dr. Echemendia?
Page 35 Page 37
1 okay, and we can go through, over time, like, who 1 A Correct.
2 was a part of that group. 2 Q And you have discussed that with
3 We've had other groups that are also 3 Dr. Meeuwisse, correct?
4 league, NHLPA, doctors, trainers, but other 4 A I mean, the concussion subcommittee. So,
5 groups that not the concussion subcommittee that 5 I think in the context of the concussion
6 have looked at other aspects of this, including 6 subcommittee. And the health management panel.
7 equipment, environment, rules, and other 7 Q It's been something you've looked at from
8 components of it. But those, to me, they're 8 time to time, correct?
9 getting at the concussion -- the topic of 9 A Correct.
10 concussions, but those are other groups that 10 Q Have you ever spoken, yourself,
11 aren't the concussion subcommittee. 11 personally, with any member of the NHL Alumni
12 Q You said equipment, rules. 12 Association about such a study?
13 Isn't another area that's been looked at, 13 A Not that I recall.
14 not by necessarily just the concussion 14 Q Have you ever spoken personally, yourself,
15 subcommittee, the question of the playing 15 with any member of the NHLPA's executive
16 environment, the boards and glass configuration? 16 committee, apart from Rizos and doctors, about
17 A Correct. 17 such a study?
18 Q And another area has been player 18 A I don't know if I know who is on the NHLPA
19 education, correct? 19 executive committee.
20 A Correct. 20 Q Have you ever spoken with Ian Pulver about
21 Q And the idea has been to develop 21 it?
22 information so that you can better make choices 22 MR. KEYTE: The "it" is the potential of
23 concerning those areas? 23 the --
24 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 24 MR. GRYGIEL: Retiree study.
25 A I'm sorry, say your statement again. 25 A Well, I mean, we talked about it at a

612.338.3376
Page 38 Page 40
1 health management panel meeting, and I don't 1 MR. KEYTE: Again. Objection.
2 remember precisely who was at that meeting. I 2 Foundation.
3 don't, I'd have to look at the minutes of that 3 Steve -- can you speak a little bit more
4 meeting to see who from the union was at that 4 slowly, Steve?
5 meeting. 5 MR. GRYGIEL: Okay.
6 Q Wouldn't a retiree study help to inform 6 MR. KEYTE: Because I actually can't
7 decisions, for example, about the playing rules? 7 follow your questions when you speak that fast.
8 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad. 8 MR. GRYGIEL: As quick as you are, I bet
9 A It could. I think there is -- 9 you can.
10 Q Haven't you, in fact, said it would? 10 A I would appreciate it, too, if you could
11 A Can I finish answering my question, 11 speak a little slower.
12 please? 12 Q I'll try.
13 Q Sure. I'm sorry. 13 A Thank you.
14 A It's okay. 14 I think that from -- again, from the, from
15 I think that it, it could. I think 15 the beginning of our program, we knew that
16 there's so many questions as to what it is you 16 players had, who had a risk of having long-term
17 study, how you design a study, what precisely 17 neurocognitive effects from post-concussion
18 your -- the data you look at and the answers 18 syndrome and they may not recover or -- you know,
19 you're trying to -- the questions you're trying 19 short-term or maybe a long-term, from those
20 to answer, and depending on the information you 20 symptoms. And, and that we provided education on
21 get, you know, what, what information you get. 21 to our players.
22 And then you look at that information, and 22 Something kind of more than that, to me,
23 it could be that, depending on that information, 23 sounds like what you're suggesting or asking
24 what decisions you want to make -- can I finish, 24 about, and, and I don't think that was really a
25 please? 25 question that was in, in our minds. It wasn't
Page 39 Page 41
1 Q I hadn't said anything. 1 anything that there was scientific evidence for,
2 A You looked like you were about to. 2 that there was a reason to ask the question of
3 MR. KEYTE: Go ahead. Finish your answer. 3 from a scientific basis. There wasn't any
4 Q Have you been talking to my wife? 4 players it had happened to. It hadn't really
5 A Depending on the information that you get, 5 come on to the horizon, I guess I would say,
6 there may be decisions that you want to make 6 until some point in time. No one had asked the
7 based on it, which, which could, which could be 7 question.
8 playing rule decisions. Obviously, it would 8 Q Now, Dr. Echemendia, from time to time,
9 depend on what information you get. 9 discussed a retiree study with you, correct?
10 Q You've always personally thought it would 10 A He did.
11 be important to know whether retirees were at 11 Q And, in fact, he raised the issue with you
12 greater risk, for example, suffering 12 more than once, didn't he?
13 neurocognitive impairments than the general 13 A He did.
14 population might be, correct? 14 Q And you thought about his questions about
15 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad. 15 that issue, didn't you?
16 A Have I always thought that? 16 MR. KEYTE: At what point in -- I'm sorry,
17 Q Yes. Always since you've joined the 17 for your question, at what point in time?
18 National Hockey League. 18 MR. GRYGIEL: Any time.
19 A No, I don't, I don't think -- I don't know 19 Q You weren't confused by my question, were
20 that that's a fair statement. 20 you?
21 Q So there's been times during your work for 21 A No, I'm fine.
22 the National Hockey League that you didn't think 22 Q Yeah, thank you.
23 determining whether or not retirees were at 23 A No, he, he raised it. He was, he was
24 greater risk for neurocognitive impairment was an 24 interested. I think he thought it was something
25 important issue? 25 that would be interesting to study.

612.338.3376
Page 42 Page 44
1 Q And he also consulted, you knew, to the 1 MR. GRYGIEL: February 11, 2008.
2 NHL on their study of retirees. 2 MR. KEYTE: Okay.
3 A The NHL had, I think in 2008, had had a 3
4 number of players who had been -- who had had -- 4
5 postmortem been identified to have CTE. 5
6 And they had decided to, I think, have two 6
7 separate studies that they had done. One was 7
8 kind of a snapshot -- a survey study, and then 8
9 they decided to design one other study. And they 9
10 asked Ruben for his views on it. 10
11 And I think, you know, that kind of got 11
12 him thinking that this could be interesting, and 12
13 that was when he first reached out to me and 13
14 said, you know, "They did it this way. And I was 14
15 thinking it could be interesting for, you know, 15
16 us -- if we were doing it, we would could do it 16
17 that way." 17
18 Q He didn't just think it was an interesting 18
19 issue. He thought it was an important issue, 19
20 didn't he? 20
21 A He said it could be interesting -- 21
22 MR. KEYTE: Let me just -- 22
23 A -- and important. 23
24 MR. KEYTE: Let me just put in my -- 24
25 object as to form. 25
Page 43 Page 45
1 Q I'm going to show you, Ms. Grand, what we 1
2 have marked as Exhibit Number 1. 2
3 (E-mail from Julie Grand to Bill 3
4 Daly dated February 11, 2008, 4
5 Bates-stamped NHL 1971101 was 5
6 marked as Exhibit 1 for 6
7 identification, as of this 7
8 date.) 8
9 Q You will see this is a one-page document. 9
10 At the top, the date is February 11, 2008. And 10
11 we have an e-mail chain here involving you, Bill 11
12 Daly, and Dr. Echemendia, correct? 12
13 A Yes. The bottom e-mail is from Ruben to 13
14 me, and the top e-mail is from me to Bill. 14
15 Q In your e-mail to Mr. Daly, you say that 15
16 you're "not sure we want to start focusing on a 16
17 retired player study at this point. Your 17
18 thoughts." 18
19 First, why were you not sure that it made 19
20 sense to start focusing on a retired player study 20
21 at that point? 21
22 MR. KEYTE: Steve, could you just put the 22
23 date of the e-mail? 23
24 MR. GRYGIEL: I did. 24
25 MR. KEYTE: Did you? I'm sorry. 25

612.338.3376
Page 46 Page 48
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 47 Page 49
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 50 Page 52
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 51 Page 53
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20 Q I'm going to show you what we're marking
21 21 as Exhibit 2, because you said that the NHLPA
22 22 objected to a retiree study because of the
23 23 employability concern.
24 24 A Yes.
25 25 Q I'd like to help, see if you could help

612.338.3376
Page 54 Page 56
1 clear this up for me. 1 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
2 (Document entitled CWG Meeting 2 A The union -- I don't remember what the
3 Summary: May 1, 2012 3 specific -- whether you're studying current
4 Bates-stamped NHL2275298 through 4 players or retired players, any study that's
5 303 was marked as Exhibit 2 for 5 designed that has the same conclusion is going to
6 identification, as of this 6 have the same effect on current players. So the
7 date.) 7 union's going to have the same opposition to a
8 Q If you look at Exhibit Number 2, you will 8 study, whether it's -- whether your, whether your
9 see it is a CWG meeting summary, May 1, 2012, 9 data set is it for current players or retired
10 correct? 10 players, because it's going to, ultimately, the
11 A Yes. 11 impact is going to be on current players who
12 Q And you will see that you were shown as an 12 retire of employability.
13 attendee, right? 13 Q So, is it your testimony that this
14 A Yes. 14 subparagraph B, the proposed study here, deals
15 Q And this is a two-page document, right? 15 with retired players?
16 Well, it's more than two pages. It's a 16 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
17 three-page document. 17 A Well, I can read the whole thing, if you'd
18 A No. I don't know. 18 like, but --
19 Q Six pages. 19 Q If you need to --
20 A It looks like a five-page document. 20 A I'm not sure if makes a difference.
21 Q Six-page document. 21 Q So what you're saying is, the PA would
22 A One, two -- 22 oppose any study that would show long term,
23 Q Six pages? 23 neurocognitive impairments in players whether
24 A One, two, three, four -- a six-page 24 they're retired or current?
25 document. 25 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Mischaracterizes
Page 55 Page 57
1 Q And the reason I was confused in my 1 the testimony.
2 pagination is because, if you look at the top of 2 MR. GRYGIEL: I don't think it does at
3 the second page, Ms. Grand -- 3 all.
4 A Yeah. 4 MR. KEYTE: Well, it completely does.
5 Q -- you'll see there is a study proposal 5 A I --
6 under heading B, correct? 6 MR. GRYGIEL: The facts are what they are.
7 A Yes. 7 MR. KEYTE: Would you want to have her
8 Q "Is self-reported concussion history 8 answer read back?
9 associated with lingering cognitive deficits in 9 MR. GRYGIEL: No. I don't have the time.
10 the NHL," correct? 10 MR. KEYTE: Okay. All right. It's a
11 A Yes. 11 different question.
12 Q And if you look down to the middle 12 A I believe that any study that we did on
13 paragraph and the paragraphs that follow that, 13 long term cognitive impairment, we would need to
14 you will see there is an expression of concern by 14 do with the union. So, whether that's on current
15 the PA about stigma and employability for 15 players, whether that's on retired players, I
16 players, correct? 16 don't, I don't think who the group is would make
17 Take a moment. 17 a difference. We've always dealt jointly with
18 A Where did -- what paragraph are you 18 the union on, collaboratively on every issue
19 referring to? 19 relating to the concussion program. And I think
20 MR. KEYTE: Third. 20 the effect of -- the practical effect of the
21 Q Sure. If you look in the third full 21 results, the union -- based on the, the concerns
22 paragraph that begins with the word "also". 22 they expressed, they would have a concern that
23 A Oh, let me see. Yes. 23 the practical effect of the results would affect
24 Q Doesn't this subparagraph B deal with 24 current players, regardless of who your study
25 current players, not retired players? 25 group was.

612.338.3376
Page 58 Page 60
1 Q Can we agree that the document we're 1 Dr. Meeuwisse to Dr. Echemendia, carbon-ing you.
2 looking at here doesn't specifically refer to 2 And the date of the e-mail is April 1, 2008.
3 retiree player studies? 3 Attached to this e-mail is a -- three,
4 A I'd have to go through and read the whole 4 separate pages of handwritten notes.
5 thing. 5 Do you see those there?
6 Q Go ahead. 6 A I do --
7 A Which I'm fine doing. 7 Q And the notes are dated --
8 Q Go ahead. 8 A But it's more than three pages, again, I
9 A (Reviews document.) Yeah, I believe this 9 would say.
10 was on current players. 10 Q Well, you're looking at the backs of the
11 Q And this doesn't refresh your recollection 11 pages. Right. Apparently my arithmetic in
12 of any discussion that PA had said, and we'll 12 counting pages isn't very good.
13 have the same objection if it's about retired 13 The handwritten notes are dated 4/1/08,
14 players, too? 14 correct?
15 A You know, our, our, our discussions with 15 A Yes.
16 the players over time, I think starting in 2008 16 Q And that's your handwriting?
17 and going through 2014, about really how to 17 A It is.
18 approach this, really evolved, over time, of 18 Q And these are notes you took during the
19 really what we were talking about, who we were 19 conference call that's recorded on the first
20 talking about. At some point, it was kind of a 20 page -- or reflected on the first page?
21 retired player study. Sometimes it was a long 21 A I mean, it looks like it was a concussions
22 term study. It was a longitudinal study. Kind 22 working group, and I don't know if it was a call
23 of who the study group was, what precisely we 23 or a meeting. I guess this Re line is a
24 were studying, what we were studying it for. I 24 conference call.
25 would say, really -- I don't know if it was ever 25 Q And the first paragraph refers to a call?
Page 59 Page 61
1 precisely to find, it was more of amorphous 1 A Some convening of a Concussion Working
2 concept that kind of changed very fluidly over 2 Group.
3 those points in time, with people just having a 3 Q And if you look at Number 5, under Future
4 general interest in us further exploring 4 Directions, it says, "Retired Players, hyphen, NP
5 concepts. And ultimately that was the idea of 5 Issues Over Time," correct?
6 putting together a task group, to really try to 6 A Yes.
7 define it further. 7 Q And that reflects that the subject was
8 But I do think that the union ultimately 8 discussed with the PA, correct?
9 had concerns about the results of anything and 9 A Yes.
10 how it affected current players. And really our 10 Q The PA representatives?
11 way to address that was to say, "Let's just come 11 A Uh-huh.
12 up with a group to form a proposal on how we 12 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Foundation.
13 would study this." 13 I'm not sure which represent --
14 And the union got comfortable with that 14 Q You don't have any doubt that this is an
15 concept. And then we, you know, that's kind 15 accurate reflection of the call, do you?
16 of -- we got their buy-in on that. 16 A Well, let me just look here at both of
17 Q Let me show you what we are marking as 17 these.
18 Exhibit Number 3. 18 So, we have Concussion Working Group
19 (E-mail from Ruben Echemendia to 19 notes. We have Paul Comper, John Rizos, Ruben,
20 Willem Meeuwisse Bates-stamped 20 and so you get to my notes, and it looks like, at
21 NHL1352051 through 057 was 21 the end, Ruben says -- you kind of have two
22 marked as Exhibit 3 for 22 different versions of, I guess, people's
23 identification, as of this 23 summaries of meeting. And so my handwritten
24 date.) 24 notes are my notes of what happened. And then it
25 Q It begins with a cover page e-mail from 25 looks like Winne also kind of summarized what

612.338.3376
Page 62 Page 64
1 happened. 1 talked about the fact that you would need to
2 Q Let's turn to your notes in the page that 2 appropriately control -- have an appropriate
3 ends with the Bates numbers 57. I think you've 3 control group and the complications of that.
4 got it right in your hand, right? 4 And then there was various meetings when
5 A Yes, uh-huh. 5 we started to actually talk about what would it
6 Q And you see, on the left-hand side of the 6 look like. And some proposals were drafted and,
7 page, the words "Future Directions," right? 7 and you can fast forward to what it looked like
8 A Uh-huh. 8 when we started to actually put proposals on the
9 Q And you see, next to the word "Ruben --" 9 paper. There was, there was another meeting, I
10 A Yes. 10 think, in 2010, I think, where Rizos and Comper
11 Q -- quote, Retired Players Longitudinally 11 and maybe Ruben were supposed to sit down and
12 Over Time, close quote, correct? 12 formulate what our proposals were.
13 A Yes. 13 So yes, I mean, we had lots of discussions
14 Q And underneath that we, have got two 14 about it, and people were generally thought, like
15 bullet entries, don't we? 15 this is, this is a good idea, let's talk about
16 A I wouldn't describe them that way, but 16 it. And then kind of starting to talk about it,
17 yes. 17 it evolved over time. And definitely went in a
18 Q "Neurocognitive Impairment, hyphen, Over 18 lot different directions.
19 Time," is one. 19 Q Well, I'm confused, because as of May 1,
20 A Yes. 20 2012, you told me that the PA was opposed to any
21 Q "Improved Diagnosis, hyphen" -- or 21 study of retirees or currents players that would
22 semicolon or comma -- "Better Awareness," 22 show neurocognitive impairments, and here we show
23 correct? 23 a document where they're saying the opposite.
24 A That's what it says. 24 What changed?
25 Q The and next line is "Rizos," right? 25 A Well, that's what I'm, that's what I'm
Page 63 Page 65
1 A Yes. 1 saying. Is so, we had some, I think, very
2 Q And that refers to Dr. John Rizos, right? 2 high-level conceptual discussion. You know --
3 A Yes. 3 you see -- this is the discussion, right?
4 Q And the words next to his name say, 4 Retired player longitudinally over time, that
5 "Reasonable, Helpful," correct? 5 sounds, that sounds reasonable. That would be a
6 A Correct. 6 good thing. And then let's, let's start to talk
7 Q And underneath that, there's the words 7 about it more. What does it look like? Again,
8 "Paul C.," right? 8 is it retired players? Is it, is it current
9 A Yes. 9 players? Is it -- I think the devil's in the
10 Q And that refers to Paul Comper, doesn't 10 details. Fleshing it out. What are the
11 it? 11 implications? Fleshing it out. Looking, you
12 A Correct. 12 know, looking at what is it precisely we're
13 Q And next to that, the handwriting says, 13 talking about? And that, that's the process we
14 "Would be a good thing," correct? 14 went there, as you can probably trail it through
15 A Correct. 15 the meetings and the proposals and, and you can
16 Q So here, isn't it true that what Dr. Rizos 16 follow the conversations.
17 and Paul Comper were saying that a retired 17 Q So, the employability concern, you're
18 players study, done longitudinally over time 18 saying, arose later when the details became more
19 would be a good thing? 19 apparent?
20 A That, that was the initial conversation 20 A That was the course of the conversation.
21 that we had. As we said, I mean, I don't know 21 Q So with this initial discussion, where
22 how many of these we're going to go through, but 22 Rizos thought it was a good idea, he never said,
23 we had, we did, we did have conversations and 23 "Gee, wiz, employability could be a problem"?
24 this was brought in up in 2008. We brought it up 24 A I, I don't recall that being raised at
25 again at the health management panel in 2009. We 25 this time, but, I mean...

612.338.3376
Page 66 Page 68
1 Q Did Rizos ever tell you why he thought 1
2 employability was an issue in 2012 when it was 2
3 not in 2008? 3
4 A We, we, we -- no. 4
5 Q Did Comper ever give you such information? 5
6 MR. KEYTE: I'm sorry, in 2008? 6
7 MR. GRYGIEL: No, at any time. 7
8 Q About why employability became an issue 8
9 when it was not in 2008 when it was apparently an 9
10 issue, you said, in 2012? 10
11 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Foundation. 11
12 You're mischaracterizing her testimony. 12
13 A I don't know if I recall Comper expressing 13
14 that. I think it was a -- it was issues that 14
15 John Rizos raised and Maria raised. 15
16 (Concussion - retired player 16
17 study from Julie Grand to Bill 17
18 Daly dated March 13, 2008, 18
19 Bates-stamped NHL2267898 was 19
20 marked as Exhibit 4 for 20
22 date.) 22
23 THE WITNESS: May I get some water, 23
24 please? 24
25 MR. GRYGIEL: Absolutely. 25
Page 67 Page 69
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 70 Page 72
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 71 Page 73
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14 Q And as of this date, 2008, no NHL player
15 15 had been diagnosed after death with CTE, correct?
16 16 A I think -- yes, that's correct.
17 17 Q It wasn't until 2009 that I think it was
18 18 Reggie Fleming died, and that was the first?
19 19 MR. KEYTE: Late -- do you want the
20 20 specific date or -- late December.
21 21 MR. GRYGIEL: Reggie Fleming, July 11,
22 22 2009.
23 23 MR. KEYTE: No, that's incorrect.
24 24 MR. PENNY: Steve is talking about the
25 25 date he died.

612.338.3376
Page 74 Page 76
1 MR. KEYTE: No, when he died. 1 MR. KEYTE: Is this a good time for a --
2 MR. GRYGIEL: Yeah. 2 because we've been past that hour. Is it --
3 MR. KEYTE: Oh, I thought you meant -- the 3 you're going on to another document?
4 CTE diagnosis -- 4 MR. GRYGIEL: Sure.
5 MR. GRYGIEL: No, no, no. 5 MR. KEYTE: Why don't we take five
6 MR. KEYTE: -- was in your question. 6 minutes?
7 MR. GRYGIEL: No. 7 MR. GRYGIEL: That's fine. Sure.
8 Q July 11, 2009. 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 10:14.
9 A Oh. 9 We're going off the record.
10 Q In other words, my question simply was -- 10 (Recess taken.)
11 A I don't recall his, his date of death. 11 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 10:28.
12 Q But at the time you were having these 12 We're back on the record.
13 discussions concerning this retiree study, no NHL 13 Q Have you ever spoken with Dr. Daniel Perl?
14 player had been -- died and been diagnosed with 14 A It doesn't ring a bell.
15 CTE? 15 Q If I identify him as the director of
16 A I mean, to, to us, kind of the, the, the, 16 neuropathology at Mount Sinai School of Medicine,
17 the date is the diagnosis of CTE, which I think 17 New York, does that refresh your memory at all?
18 was December, late December -- now all my dates 18 A It doesn't ring a bell, but I'm sure you
19 are getting jumped in my head -- 2009, yeah. 19 can refresh my recollection with a document.
20 MR. PENNY: You got it. 20
21 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 21
22 A So, yes, you're correct. 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 75 Page 77
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11 Q Didn't Dr. Echemendia tell you that one of
12 12 the reasons for doing a long-term study of
13 13 retirees was because a good database already
14 14 existed in terms of the NP testing for players
15 15 who had retired?
16 16 A Ruben said that, if we did -- we kept
17 17 changing the terminology -- but a long-term study
18 18 or a retired player study, he contemplated us
19 19 using that database.
20 20 Q Were you privy to any discussions between
21 21 Mr. Daly and Mr. Pulver concerning a long-term
22 22 study of retiree cognitive health?
23 23 MR. KEYTE: Object to foundation.
24 24 A I think that it came up -- the topic came
25 25 up at a health management panel meeting, maybe in

612.338.3376
Page 78 Page 80
1 early 2009, that Bill and Ian and maybe, like, 1 reflecting Bill being crudely dismissive. Again,
2 ten other people were at, if that's what you're 2 I think it was an evolving discussion over time,
3 referring to. 3 but I certainly don't recall Bill being
4 Q It is. 4 dismissive.
5 A Okay. 5 Q Do you have any understanding why
6 Q And do you remember Mr. Daly was, quote, 6 Mr. Pulver would use those words, "crudely
7 crudely dismissive, close quote, of the idea of 7 dismissive"?
8 such a study? 8 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
9 A Well, I've seen the document that you 9 A No.
10 marked, and so I saw Ian's -- 10 Q Now, it says here that the head of the
11 Q Exhibit Number 5 is now in front of you. 11 concussion group indicated that plans for such a
12 (E-mail from Ian Penny to Andrew 12 study were underway.
13 Wolfe and others dated January 13 That was Dr. Echemendia, correct?
14 28, 2009, Bates-stamped 14 A 2009, health management panel -- well, I
15 NHLPA_0001308 to 10 was marked 15 don't remember at that time if -- yes, that would
16 as Exhibit 5 for identification, 16 have been Ruben, uh-huh.
17 as of this date.) 17 At some point Paul and Ruben became
18 A I've seen Ian's characterization of it as 18 co-chairs, but I think that would have been after
19 that. I don't -- you know, when I saw this, I 19 2012. So, this is probably just referring to
20 don't remember that being Bill's reaction to it, 20 Ruben.
21 but -- I don't remember that being Bill's 21 Q So, it sounded like Dr. Echemendia and
22 reaction to it. 22 Mr. Daly were not on the same page concerning the
23 Q Simply for identification, this is an 23 value of a long-term retiree study.
24 e-mail from Mr. penny to a number of folks, and 24 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
25 the date is January 28, 2009, correct? 25 A As I've said, you know, I, Ruben thought a
Page 79 Page 81
1 A I'm sorry, say it again. 1 study would be interesting. He, he, he brought
2 Q Sure. I'm just identifying it. This is a 2 it up to us on, you know, a couple of occasions,
3 January 28, 2009 e-mail from Ian Penny to a 3 and we discussed it at our, at our meetings on
4 number of people. 4 several occasions, and our, our minutes and our
5 A Correct. 5 notes reflect that.
6 Q Okay. Now, this is the meeting you were 6 Q You don't have any doubt that at this
7 referring to, right, just a moment ago? 7 meeting that is referred to in this e-mail that
8 A The health management panel meeting. 8 Dr. Daly did oppose the idea, whether or not he
9 Q Right. And it's your testimony that 9 was crudely dismissive?
10 Mr. Daly was not, quote, crudely dismissive, 10 A I'm sorry, can say that again?
11 close quote, of the idea of a long-term study of 11 Q You don't have any doubt at this meeting
12 concussed hockey players? 12 Mr. Daly opposed the idea of the study, whether
13 A I don't remember Bill being crudely 13 or not he was, quote, crudely dismissive?
14 dismissive. 14 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
15 I also have notes from that meeting, which 15 A I don't know whether or not he opposed the
16 you probably have. And I don't have a specific 16 idea.
17 recollection of the discussion at that meeting. 17
18 You know, I think, my notes from that meeting, I 18
19 think, show that we, we discussed it, and I think 19
20 it said that there was issues with -- you know, 20
21 I'm kind of losing my track of the timing -- 21
22 either people said we should further look at it, 22
23 or maybe there was issues with control group that 23
24 we needed to look at. 24
25 And so I don't, I don't remember my notes 25

612.338.3376
Page 82 Page 84
1 1 land. What I want to understand is, at any time,
2 2 to your memory, did anyone at the PA ever say,
3 3 quote, Under no circumstances will the PA agree
4 4 to a study of retirees' neurocognitive health,
5 5 close quote?
7 7 A We didn't have conversations that were
8 8 black and white conversations like that. So
9 9 your, your question is not a question that can be
10 10 answered. And I know you're looking for a yes or
11 11 a no.
12 12 Q I am.
13 13 A I know. But, but that's not how the
14 14 conversations occurred.
15 15 Q Did any member of the PA, at any time, to
16 16 your knowledge, say the PA, under no
17 17 circumstances, could agree, because of
18 18 employability concerns, to a study of the
19 19 neurocognitive health of current players?
20 20 A Can you repeat your question, please?
21 Q Would it be accurate to say, at any time, 21 Q Sure. Did any member of the PA, at any
22 that the Players' Association has expressly 22 time, ever say words to the effect that the PA
23 refused any study of retirees' long term mental 23 could never agree to a study of decreases in
24 cognitive health? 24 neurocognitive health of current players, because
25 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Asked and 25 of employability concerns?
Page 83 Page 85
1 answered. 1 A The PA responded to specific proposals
2 A We, we already went through this. You 2 that were presented to them. That was the
3 know, as I said, we've discussed this at specific 3 context for the conversations.
4 meetings where there were specific proposals on 4 We left that meeting in May, and we came
5 the table. But we discussed it in the context 5 back at our follow-up meeting in, I think, June
6 of, I told you, a number of meetings over a 6 and continued those conversations where they
7 number of years, where we're talking about 7 said, "We're going to -- we need to get more
8 different things at different meetings. And some 8 feedback from the players."
9 of those were a general concept of a retired 9 And then we continued those conversations,
10 player study. And some of those were, were not a 10 and then we went from there to say, "What
11 retired player study. They were just a long-term 11 direction can we take this in?" And then, the
12 study, right? And it was, it was a really 12 direction we took it in was, let's -- you know,
13 different -- they were different things, and I'm 13 we, we -- we're not supporting this (indicating),
14 not sure if they were even intentionally 14 but let's do that.
15 different. They were a meandering conversation 15 So, things -- things weren't black and
16 over long periods of time. 16 white in the sense that you're trying to kind of
17 And so, as those conversations evolved and 17 put them in. It was more in the context of a
18 different people tried to formulate what it was 18 specific proposal.
19 people were talking about, and said, "Let's 19 Q Okay. As we discussed earlier, you
20 continue this. Let's sit down. Let's write a 20 prepared certain materials for presentations to
21 proposal." At different points, the proposals 21 the Board of Governors on the issue of
22 looked differently, and then there were reactions 22 concussions, right?
23 to proposals that were written down that 23 A Correct.
24 addressed different things. So... 24 Q And, of course, the Board of Governors are
25 Q I'm simply trying to get the lay of the 25 those who are appointed by the club as generally

612.338.3376
Page 86 Page 88
1 the most senior people and owners that represent 1
2 the clubs, correct? The Board of Governors each 2
3 represents their club, correct? 3
4 A The Board of Governors is generally the 4
5 owner or the voting member on behalf of the club. 5
6 Q And the chairman of the Board of Governors 6
7 is actually an official of the National Hockey 7
8 League, correct? 8
9 A I, I don't know the corporate structure 9
10 of -- 10
11 Q So you're not aware that the chairman of 11
12 the Board of Governors has the ability to call 12
13 meetings? 13
14 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 14
15 A I, I don't. 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 87 Page 89
1 1
2 2 Q Let me show you what I've marked as
3 3 Exhibit 6. And you will see this is a document
4 4 that bears, at the top, the words "Concussion
5 5 Report BOG Meeting, December 2009."
6 6 (Concussion Report BOG Meeting
7 7 Dec. 2009, Bates-stamped
8 8 NHL2081309 through 1315 was
9 9 marked as Exhibit 6 for
10 10 identification, as of this
11 11 date.)
12 12 Q It's a multipage document. And my
13 13 question is, did you prepare this document?
14 14 A I -- yes, I think I probably did.
15 15 Q Did anyone participate with you in
16 16 preparing this document?
17 17 A I may have gotten input from people.
18 18 Q Which people?
19 19 A I don't -- I may have gotten input from --
20 20 well, let me read the document.
21 21 (Reviews document.)
22 22 I -- I don't have a specific recollection.
23 23 My -- I may have talked to Ruben, I may have
24 24 talked to Winne. They are my medical advisors
25 25 and consultants who work with me on a frequent

612.338.3376
Page 90 Page 92
1 basis on all of these matters, and have for all 1 Q And you're referring to several future
2 of the relevant time periods. So my general 2 projects that the Concussion Working Group may
3 practice would probably be to fact check with 3 consider, correct?
4 them and make sure I'm kind of conveying 4 A Yes.
5 information accurately. But I don't have a 5 Q Actually, it says that will be considered
6 specific recollection on this. 6 by the CWG, right?
7 Q You mentioned a moment ago that you have 7 A Yes.
8 presented to the Board of Governors on many 8 Q And under subparagraph B, it's a study on
9 occasions, right? 9 the long-term neurocognitive and psychological
10 A Yes. 10 effects of repeated concussions among retired NHL
11 Q And many of those occasions involved the 11 players, correct?
12 concussion issue, correct? 12 A Correct.
13 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Vague. 13 Q So, at least as of this time, the board is
14 A A concussion program. 14 being advised that such a study is in the works
15 Q Right. 15 or may be in the works, correct?
16 A And other matters, but yes. 16 A The board was advised that the concussion
17 Q Did you ever tell the Board of Governors 17 subcommittee was discussing this as a possible
18 that the Players' Association opposed a study of 18 future project, as the concussion subcommittee
19 retirees' neurocognitive health? 19 was.
20 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad. 20
21 Foundation. 21
22 A I, I don't recall. I don't recall. 22
23 Q Were you ever at a Board of Governors 23
24 meeting where you heard Mr. Daly say that the 24
25 Players' Association opposed a study of retirees' 25
Page 91 Page 93
1 neurocognitive health? 1
2 MR. KEYTE: Same objection. 2
3 A I don't recall. 3 Q Quickly, if you would turn to page 4.
4 Q Did you ever tell the Board of Governors 4 A Do you want me to refresh you on the state
5 that the PA opposed a study that would reflect 5 of the discussions? We've kind of been through
6 upon current players' neurocognitive health? 6 them chronologically.
7 A I don't remember. 7 Q No. Because you've already done it, and I
8 Q Did you ever tell the PA -- did you ever 8 think I remember them.
9 tell the Board of Governors that the PA opposed a 9 If you would turn to page 4.
10 study of retired -- strike that. 10 A Well, then your question didn't really
11 Did Mr. Daly, to your knowledge, ever tell 11 make any sense.
12 the Board of Governors that the PA wanted nothing 12 Q Won't be the first time that happens --
13 to do with the retiree study? 13 A Okay.
14 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Lacks foundation 14 Q -- at least from your perspective.
15 and mischaracterizes testimony. 15 A Okay.
16 A I don't think he would say that, because I 16 Yep.
17 don't think that's an accurate statement of our 17 Q Do you see under "playing environment" --
18 state of discussions. But I, I don't recall him 18 A Yes.
19 saying that, and I don't think that is a 19 Q -- it refers to a mandate that all clubs
20 statement he would make. 20 install a sufficiently flexible arena shielding?
21 Q If you would turn to page 6, here, 21 A Yes.
22 Ms. Grand. You see under the boldface section, 22 Q You were familiar with that change,
23 "Future Projects," there are a number of entries, 23 weren't you?
24 right? 24 A Yes.
25 A Yes. 25 Q And that is something that the NHL imposed

612.338.3376
Page 94 Page 96
1 on its member clubs? 1 A The conversion to full acrylic that was
2 A This was something that emanated out of 2 done in 2012, yes, that was based on an analysis
3 the injury analysis panel, which was a panel that 3 of the data at that point, that showed that the
4 was an NHL, NHLPA, multidisciplinary panel. It 4 acrylic systems had a decreased level of injury
5 had, it was headed by Dave Dryden. It had, oh, 5 than the, than the other systems, yes.
6 gosh, probably 20 members on it including 6 Q And that was a change that was based, as
7 players. Paul Korea, Trevor Linden, it had 7 you say, on data that the NHL itself, with the
8 equipment manufacturers, it had equipment 8 PA, had analyzed, correct?
9 managers, it had trainers, it had doctors, it had 9 A Correct.
10 trainers, it had engineers, it had a lot of 10 Q And that data wasn't subject to peer
11 people. 11 review scrutiny, was it?
12 And so, emanating out of that group and 12 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
13 analyses and work that that group had done, 13 Are you suggesting it says --
14 including hiring the engineering firm of Martin & 14 MR. GRYGIEL: I'm not suggesting anything.
15 Martin to do work on the relative flexibility of 15 I just want her to answer my question.
16 the box and board systems, this, this change was 16 MR. KEYTE: Well, you're -- objection.
17 made. 17 Foundation to your earlier question.
18 Q I appreciate the information, but my 18 A I, I don't believe that data had been
19 question was much narrower. 19 submitted to -- for peer review scrutiny.
20 This was a mandate that the League imposed 20 Q And you're not aware that that data was
21 on its member clubs and said, "Make these 21 subjected to an analysis for statistical
22 changes," correct? 22 significance, correct?
23 A Based on the collective work of the NHL 23 MR. KEYTE: Objection.
24 and NHLPA. 24 A I'm sorry. Can you repeat your question?
25 Q Right. So we're clear, you told me where 25 Q Sure. Are you familiar with the phrase
Page 95 Page 97
1 it came from. I simply want to talk about the 1 "statistical significance"?
2 effect. 2 A I am.
3 The NHL got this information and said to 3 Q Okay. Was that data subjected to testing
4 its clubs, "Make this change," correct? 4 for statistical significance before the change
5 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad. 5 was made?
6 A The League communicated to its clubs the 6 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
7 requirement to make the change, yes. And the 7 A I, I'm not sure.
8 change came from the agreement of the NHL and the 8 Q Okay. Are you aware of any regression
9 NHLPA. I'm not sure if that's a distinction 9 analyses that were run on the injury rates
10 you're trying to get at, so I just want to be 10 against acrylic glass versus seamless glass in
11 clear. 11 making the determination that the clubs should
12 Q Well, the PA couldn't instruct the clubs 12 change their configuration?
13 to change the glass in their rinks, correct? 13 A I'm, I'm not familiar with -- I don't
14 A Yeah, I just, I wasn't sure if that was 14 recall the specific analyses that were done on
15 something you were trying to -- 15 it.
16 Q In fact, later, when the change was made 16 Q In general, data got obtained, it showed a
17 to go to fully acrylic, that was another 17 higher rate of frequency of injuries against the
18 situation where the NHL told its member clubs, 18 seamless glass, and the League made the change,
19 "You need to make this change"? 19 right?
20 A Yes. Again, based on the work that we had 20 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
21 done together with the union. 21 A No, I, I don't think it was that
22 Q And that was, for example, work that 22 simplistic or flip of a decision.
23 demonstrated the frequency of injuries against 23 Q I didn't mean to be flip.
24 seamless glass as opposed to acrylic glass, 24 A Okay. It was a carefully monitored issue,
25 correct? 25 actually, over since 2000. And it was something

612.338.3376
Page 98 Page 100

1 that we paid a lot of attention to, based on 1 A It's not the term we use, but our
2 feedback that we had gotten from the players, 2 concussion program is --
3 initially, in the injury analysis panel, and that 3 MR. GRYGIEL: It's the term I use, and I'm
4 we paid a lot of attention to. And actually 4 asking the question.
5 watched that data over the years. 5 MR. KEYTE: No, I understand, but you, you
6 And so, back in, in 2001, we, we made this 6 agreed with her clarification before.
7 change. And then after this change, we watched 7 A Our concussion program has, has been a
8 the data. And it was actually, oddly didn't sync 8 priority, yes.
9 up with kind of the reports we were getting from 9 Q A high priority, right?
10 players. Where, after this change, in some of 10 A A high priority.
11 the -- you would find that in some of the plexi 11 Q And for you personally?
12 systems, you were getting higher rates of injury 12 A Yes.
13 than in some of the seamless systems over some of 13 Q And you would consider it part of your
14 the years. And so, we continued to watch it and 14 working duty to make sure that players were as
15 watch it, you know, kind of over time, and see, 15 safe as possible, if you have anything to say
16 was it -- I think they did look -- and you would 16 about it, right?
17 have to ask Winne, and maybe you did review this 17 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad. And it
18 with him, because he is our epidemiologist, was 18 calls for a legal conclusion, but go ahead.
19 it statistically significant? Did it show 19 A As safe as possible, I think, is a -- I'm
20 trends? Is it something that could be relied on 20 not -- within the confines of our, our physical
21 to show that the acrylic systems were safer? 21 game and what we and the union, together, think
22 Because there is some -- this is something we 22 is achievable, I guess, given the science and the
23 took very seriously and wanted to, you know, see 23 equipment, and given the environment, and all of
24 if there was a basis and a reason to make this 24 the other things you have to factor in. But we
25 change. 25 work together to try to achieve player health and
Page 99 Page 101

1 And so, when we got to a point that the 1 safety, particularly in the area of concussions.
2 data did show -- and as soon as it showed -- that 2 It's a common goal.
3 the acrylic systems did have a lower level of, of 3 Q I'm going to show you, simply for
4 injury -- and I think, at that point, it was just 4 completion purposes here, what we marked as
5 along the ends and the corners, we said, "Go 5 Exhibit Number 7.
6 ahead and make the change." And then we said, 6 (Minutes of a Meeting of the
7 "You know what? Even though the data doesn't 7 Board of Governors of the
8 show a disparate injury rate along the sides, 8 National Hockey League held at
9 change it in the whole rink." 9 the Inn at Spanish Bay, Pebble
10 And, you know, we, we had them change it 10 Beach, California on December
11 at that point just because we were requiring the 11 15-16, 2009, Bates-stamped
12 change. But the data was carefully analyzed and 12 NHL0209404 through 416 was
13 scrutinized over a very long period of time, 13 marked as Exhibit 7 for
14 because this was a very important issue. 14 identification, as of this
15 Q Let me just -- you were mentioning taking 15 date.)
16 this issue very seriously. You obviously have 16 Q A moment ago, we looked at the concussion
17 taken the issue of player brain safety very 17 report BOG meeting, December 2009. And this is
18 seriously yourself, right? 18 the minutes of the meeting of Board of Governors,
19 A Yes. 19 December 15 and 16, 2009.
20 Q As part of one of your -- taking care of 20 You recognize Mr. Daly's signature on the
21 player brain safety, promoting it, has been one 21 last page, don't you?
22 of your highest priorities since you joined the 22 A It does look like his signature.
23 League, right? 23 Q Quickly, Ms. Grand, if you would look at
24 MR. KEYTE: Again, object to the form of 24 the page that is 10, and it says, "Report on
25 the question. It's not the term that she -- 25 Concussion Program."

612.338.3376
Page 102 Page 104

1 MR. KEYTE: Hold on. 1 efficacy of what he's proposing. We circulate
2 A Okay. 2 them among the concussion subcommittee, and our
3 Q In the third paragraph underneath that, it 3 medical experts review the literature. And my
4 shows that you're discussing potential CWG 4 recollection is that the consensus on both the
5 projects, right? 5 union side and the PA side of the medical experts
6 A Uh-huh, yes. 6 was, there's -- while omega 3 fatty acids are
7 Q And number 2 is the study on long term 7 good, in general, for brain health, that there is
8 neurocognitive and psychological effects of 8 nothing in particular that shows that they are
9 repeated concussions, correct? 9 particularly effective for treatment of
10 A Yes. 10 concussions.
11 Q And that's among retired players, right? 11
12 A Yes. 12
13 Q Does this refresh your memory about 13
14 anything members of the Board of Governors asked 14
15 you about such a study? 15
16 A No. 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 103 Page 105

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 Q Do you know who Dr. Amen is? 6
7 A Yes. 7
8 Q Who is Dr. Amen? 8
9 A He's a, he's a gentleman who, I believe, 9
10 we have met with who focuses on omega three fatty 10
11 acids as a potential treatment for players with a 11
12 concussion as a prophylactic and maybe, you know, 12
13 post-concussion treatment. 13
14 Q Has the NHL done anything formal in terms 14
15 of Dr. Amen's analysis of that issue to support 15
16 it? 16
17 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Vague. 17
18 Q Terrible question. 18
19 Has the NHL ever offered Dr. Amen any 19
20 support for that work? 20
21 MR. KEYTE: Same objection. Vague. 21
22 A So, the -- Dr. Amen had reached out to us. 22
23 And typical, as we do with others who reach out 23
24 to us, we asked him to submit to us peer 24
25 reviewed, published studies that show the 25

612.338.3376
Page 106 Page 108

1 1 A Okay. Yes. So CTE, yes.
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 107 Page 109

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 Q Now, by this time, the NHL had already had 8
9 its first player be -- dead player be diagnosed 9
10 with dementia, correct? 10
11 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 11 .
12 Is that, is that what you meant to say? 12
13 MR. GRYGIEL: Uh-huh. 13
15 A What was the -- now I'm, I'm really 15
16 messing up on my timeline here. 16
17 When, when was our first player who -- 17
18 Q The first player who died, as I understand 18 Q So you would consider the issue of CTE
19 it, was Reggie Fleming, July 11, 2009. And it 19 particularly to be an important issue in terms of
20 was in December that the CTE was revealed. 20 its possible implications for NHL retirees?
21 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Did you mean CTE 21 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad.
22 or dementia? 22 A I think that, you know, to date, there's,
23 MR. GRYGIEL: The CTE. 23 there's nothing that establishes that concussions
24 A Oh, okay. 24 or concussive injury causes CTE. There's a lot
25 Q Uh-huh. 25 of questions in terms of the science, and we've

612.338.3376
Page 110 Page 112

1 met with the folks at BU, and we've had those 1 Q Right.
2 discussions, and there's, there's no consensus in 2 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
3 the medical industry, as I understand it, or as 3 Q Yes or no?
4 our experts tell us, and as the union's medical 4 A Yes.
5 experts tell them and tell us, and as the 5 Q Okay. And is it important to you to know
6 consensus in sport statements say, and the other 6 whether or not NHL retirees are at increased
7 consensus statements out there say, establishing 7 risk, compared to the general population, for
8 causation. 8 Parkinsonian symptoms, yes or no?
9 There is a lot of research that needs to 9 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
10 be done and a lot of questions that needs to be 10 A Yes.
11 answered, and if that research is done, and at 11 Q And isn't it important to you, for the
12 some point a causative link is established, then, 12 same population cohort, NHL retirees compared to
13 you know, then, yes, is the answer to your 13 the general population, to know whether they are
14 question, in terms of possible. But, you know, 14 at increased risk for ALS?
15 there's, there's a lot of steps along the way 15 MR. KEYTE: Same objection.
16 that certainly need to be addressed -- 16 A I -- my hesitation in answering these is
17 Q You answered a question -- 17 how you establish the, the connection between
18 A -- that are really important. 18 what it is there, is occurring to them as an NHL
19 Q You answered a question I didn't ask. 19 player and how, you know -- whether they're
20 A Oh. 20 getting these diseases.
21 Q My question was just, it's an issue you 21 Q I'm not asking about the connection, I'm
22 consider to be important, correct, for purposes 22 just asking, isn't the issue itself important to
23 of NHL retirees? 23 you?
24 A Well, what's -- I'm sorry. Can you ask 24 A I think -- I think it's important to
25 the whole -- what's the "it"? 25 understand that, yes.
Page 111 Page 113

1 Q It's the question of whether or not they 1 Q And you have the same answer with respect
2 are more likely to suffer from CTE than other 2 to CTE, correct?
3 population cohorts? 3 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
4 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Foundation. 4 There's no disease. Same objection as before.
5 There is no -- 5 A So, whether an increased number of players
6 Q Is that important to you? 6 are determined to have CTE over what?
7 MR. KEYTE: -- suffer from CTE. 7 Q I don't mean to be allusive.
8 There's -- you lack a complete foundation for 8 Is it important to you, yes or no,
9 that question. 9 Ms. Grand, whether or not NHL retirees are at an
10 Steven, your question, are you suggesting 10 increased risk for developing CTE symptoms
11 there is a diagnosis of CTE now and what symptoms 11 compared to the general population, yup or nope?
12 are? 12 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Foundation,
13 MR. GRYGIEL: Obviously, I didn't suggest 13 as to "CTE symptoms". It's an improper question.
14 that. Let me ask my question. 14 Lacks foundation.
15 MR. KEYTE: Well, then you may want to 15 A Can you repeat your question, please?
16 rephrase your question. 16 Q Madam, can you read it back?
17 MR. GRYGIEL: No, you just -- 17 (Record read.)
18 MR. KEYTE: It's an improper question. 18 A What are CTE symptoms?
19 MR. GRYGIEL: Let me ask my question. I'm 19 Q You've seen, for example, would have been
20 going to ask this question: 20 identified with clinical precursors to CTE, for
21 Q Is it important to you whether or not NHL 21 example, personality changes, irritability,
22 retirees are at increased risk, compared to other 22 memory loss?
23 population cohorts for Alzheimer's, yes or no? 23 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
24 A Whether NHL players are at increased risk 24 A So, I mean, I don't think those are
25 for Alzheimer's? 25 specific to, as I understand it -- and you should

612.338.3376
Page 114 Page 116

1 certainly speak to the practitioners, because 1 quote, but not sufficient, quote, factor in
2 this is -- I'm a lawyer, not a doctor -- but my 2 developing chronic traumatic encephalopathy,
3 understanding is, those are not specific to CTE. 3 close quote?
4 And so, I, I don't understand that to be a 4 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
5 specific diagnosis. 5 A I know that they -- I don't believe that
6 Q Let me ask a slightly different question. 6 they have -- my understanding is adequate
7 Is it important to you, yes or no, 7 controls, to understand to what extent CTE is
8 Ms. Grand, to know whether or not NHL retirees 8 happening in the nonathlete population.
9 are at increased risk for developing CTE, 9 Q My question was different, though.
10 compared to the general population, yes or no? 10 I simply asked, you've heard Dr. Stern say
11 A Yes. 11 that, haven't you?
12 Q And isn't one way to develop information 12 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
13 about all these neurocognitive diseases we've 13 A Can you repeat it?
14 just talked about to study them? 14 Q Sure. That repeated, mild traumatic brain
15 MR. KEYTE: Same objection. 15 injury, hits to the head, are a necessary, but
16 A What are you including in "all these 16 not sufficient cause of chronic traumatic
17 neurocognitive diseases"? 17 encephalopathy?
18 Q ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease, Alzheimer's, 18 MR. KEYTE: And objection. Foundation.
19 Parkinson's and Parkinsonian symptoms, dementia, 19 A I don't think there is an understanding as
20 which has various grades, and CTE. 20 to what extent at all players who, if you have
21 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Lacks foundation 21 repeated hits to the head, there is any
22 as to "CTE." 22 understanding as to the likelihood of that
23 A I don't think there's been any reason to 23 resulting in, in any sort of cognitive
24 suspect or lead us to have an indication or 24 impairment.
25 reason to believe that our players are at an 25 So, I, I just think there is lots of steps
Page 115 Page 117

1 increased risk for having any of these diseases. 1 along the way that no one can, can link up the
2 Q You know who Dr. Bob Stern is, don't you? 2 steps.
3 A I do. 3 Q There well, there may be, but you're way
4 Q And you met with him when you went to 4 ahead of me.
5 Boston to meet with the BU people, right? 5 A Uh-huh.
6 A Yes. 6 Q I just asked, have you heard Dr. Stern say
7 Q And you have spoken with Dr. Stern about 7 that?
8 the brain bank they have at BU, haven't you? 8 A I think so, yes.
9 A In -- at that -- at that meeting and -- 9 Q And you've read an article or two in which
10 Q There was a second one? 10 he has confirmed that he has said that, haven't
11 A Maybe at a second meeting in New York, 11 you?
12 uh-huh. 12 MR. KEYTE: Same objection. Foundation.
13 Q So we're clear, you've met with them 13 A I, I don't have a specific recollection of
14 twice, the BU people, right? 14 the article, but I may have.
15 A Yes. 15 Q Okay. And you're certainly familiar, as a
16 Q Okay. And Dr. McKee was included? 16 smart person, with what it means to say something
17 A Yes. 17 is a necessary but not sufficient condition for
18 Q And you've obviously talked to Dr. McKee 18 an outcome, correct?
19 about what her findings are? 19 MR. KEYTE: Again, I object to foundation.
20 A Yes. 20 Are you asking her as a --
21 Q And you've talked to her about what the 21 MR. GRYGIEL: You're objecting she's
22 samples she's actually analyzed is, correct? 22 smart?
23 A She's maybe have spoken to that. 23 MR. KEYTE: No. As an ex -- you're,
24 Q And you heard Dr. Stern say that repeated, 24 you're moving into expert testimony now. And so
25 mild traumatic brain injury is a necessary, 25 I object for what -- for that line of

612.338.3376
Page 118 Page 120

1 questioning. 1 shoulders, correct?
2 Q You can answer. 2 A I know that, at our meetings, that we had
3 A I, I'm not a physician. I, I don't -- 3 with the BU folks, they specifically said that
4 Q It's not a medical question. 4 the hits that occur in hockey are different and
5 MR. KEYTE: It's a -- it is a question -- 5 distinct than the hits that occur in football.
6 it is. Objection. It's an ex -- you're seeking 6 And they thought that was an important
7 expert opinion on necessary, what it means 7 distinguishing factor.
8 medically for necessary sufficient. That's 8 Q But that wasn't my question.
9 exactly what your question is. 9 My question was, hockey players, to your
10 MR. GRYGIEL: I'm just asking her if she 10 knowledge, have always been exposed to hits to
11 understands what it means. 11 the head from other player's shoulders, correct?
12 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Foundation. 12 A I'm sorry, what do you mean by "they've
13 MR. GRYGIEL: To say something is a 13 always been"?
14 necessary but not a sufficient condition. 14 Q Sure. There's never been anything that
15 MR. KEYTE: What it means as to what? 15 prevented players from getting hit in the head by
16 MR. GRYGIEL: To develop any condition, 16 other player's shoulders?
17 any outcome. 17 A I don't know how to answer that question.
18 Q Do you understand what the logical 18 I don't know what would prevent it.
19 construct? 19 Q You don't know what would prevent that?
20 MR. KEYTE: Right. Then my objection 20 Same with hits by elbows and hits by fists, NHL
21 stands. It, that is -- calls for opinion 21 players get hit in the head with other player's
22 testimony, scientific opinion testimony. 22 fists and elbows, correct?
23 Go ahead. You may answer. 23 A It's a physical game and contact occurs
24 A I guess we'll see. 24 within the rink.
25 I think so. 25 Q So your answer is yes?
Page 119 Page 121

1 Q You understand -- let me ask it a little 1 A There are contacts that occur between
2 differently. 2 players from body parts to body parts.
3 You understand what Dr. Stern means when 3 Q And, therefore, hits to the head occur
4 he says, "Repeated, mild traumatic brain injury 4 quite a bit in the National Hockey League, don't
5 is a necessary but not sufficient condition to 5 they?
6 the outcome of chronic traumatic encephalopathy"? 6 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad. Vague.
7 MR. KEYTE: Same objection. Also, you're 7 A At what point in time are you talking
8 calling for -- you're asking what someone else 8 about?
9 is, what's in someone else's mind. With those 9 Q At any time. Certainly since you've been
10 objections. 10 involved in the League.
11 A I, I believe I understand what he's 11 A Hits to the head have decreased over time.
12 saying. 12 Q Since Rule 48?
13 Q What he's saying is, without getting hit 13 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad.
14 in the head a lot and some other stuff, you're 14 A Yes, since Rule 48.
15 not going to develop it, correct? 15 Q Are you sure?
16 A I believe that's what he's saying. 16 A I believe so.
17 Q And you're familiar with how many hits to 17 Q And my point is, one of the necessary
18 the head there are every year in the National 18 conditions for the development of CTE is
19 Hockey League, aren't you? 19 repeated, mild traumatic brain injury, according
20 A I don't have that information offhand. 20 to Dr. Stern?
21 Q You've seen the statistics, haven't you? 21 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Calls for
22 A I, I'm sure I have. I'm not familiar with 22 expert testimony.
23 them. 23 A Can you repeat that?
24 Q And National Hockey League players have 24 Q Sure. According to Dr. Stern, one of the
25 always been exposed to hits to the head from 25 necessary conditions for the development of CTE

612.338.3376
Page 122 Page 124

1 is repeated hits to the head, correct? 1 what they really said to do in our game, is to
2 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Calls for 2 make sure that we properly manage, diagnose, and
3 expert testimony. And if you want to ask 3 conservatively manage concussions. That's,
4 Mr. Stern -- 4 that's how they said we should address it in our
5 MR. GRYGIEL: Your objection is -- 5 game. And they said they weren't concerned with
6 MR. KEYTE: -- his belief and basis, you 6 fighting in our game.
7 can ask Dr. Stern. 7 Q Let's switch gears a little bit here.
8 MR. GRYGIEL: Stop making speeches. I 8 Just something you said a moment ago.
9 don't do it. It's just so rude. 9 You said these folks told you that hockey
10 MR. KEYTE: Well, these are improper 10 isn't football. "These folks" being the BU
11 questions. 11 folks?
12 MR. GRYGIEL: Well, then say it's an 12 A They said that hockey was different from
13 improper question, objection. And you're 13 football in that they were concerned about kind
14 protected. 14 of a dose response, and that hockey players
15 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Calls for expert 15 weren't subject to the, the same number of hits
16 testimony. 16 to, I guess, the head that football players, the
17 A I don't, I don't, I don't know to what 17 same number of impacts.
18 extent he is saying you need repeated hits to the 18 Q Do you know who Dr. Kevin Guskiewicz is,
19 head or... 19 don't you?
20 Q Well, as you say, you've heard him say 20 A I do.
21 that necessary but not sufficient condition for 21 Q Have you ever spoken with Dr. Guskiewicz
22 the development of CTE is repeated, mild 22 about the incidence of concussions in the
23 traumatic brain injury, right? 23 National Hockey League?
24 A You know what? I think, to be honest, I 24 A I've spoken to Dr. Guskiewicz about his
25 think the BU group has been, taken multiple 25 HIT system, his sensor system. So maybe in the
Page 123 Page 125

1 positions as to, to what extent you could have 1 context of that, but I'm not sure if that's
2 one impact or multiple impacts or subconcussive 2 exactly what you're asking.
3 impacts or a number of concussions. I think 3 Q Has Dr. Guskiewicz ever told you that
4 they've taken a number of different positions as 4 concussions in football differ from concussions
5 to what it is that will lead to it. 5 in hockey?
6 So I'm not exactly sure of what their 6 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad.
7 position is. 7 A I, I don't recall us having a specific
8 Q I didn't ask you what their position was. 8 conversation of that nature.
9 I asked you what you've heard what Dr. Stern say, 9 Q Have you ever read any studies of which
10 which I understood -- 10 Dr. Guskiewicz is an author dealing with
11 A I don't, I don't precisely remember what 11 concussions?
12 his position is versus the rest of their 12 A At, at some point, I, I read a study of a
13 positions. I don't remember them being all 13 survey he had done of football players who had
14 consistent. 14 had repeated concussions.
15 Q Okay. When you, did you remember 15 Q Have you ever discussed with
16 following up with Dr. Stern at all and saying, 16 Dr. Guskiewicz how his analysis of football
17 "Wait a minute. If repeated hits to the head are 17 players' concussions extrapolates to the world of
18 a necessary condition for the development of CTE, 18 professional hockey in the NHL?
19 our game has a lot of hits to the head, what do 19 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
20 you propose we do about it?" 20 A No.
21 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 21 Q Has Dr. Guskiewicz ever told you that he
22 A So, I mean, it was a really interesting 22 expects that NHL concussions would be every bit
23 meeting that we had with them in May -- was it 23 as serious as NFL concussions?
24 May 2012? I don't know if I'm getting the dates 24 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad,
25 right. When they came to New York. And, I mean, 25 foundation.

612.338.3376
Page 126 Page 128

1 A No. 1 A I probably read some newspaper articles
2 Q Has any doctor with whom you've ever 2 about it.
3 spoken concerning concussions told you that the 3 Q Is that the extent of it?
4 biochemical cascade in the brain differs, whether 4 MR. KEYTE: Her personally?
5 it's from a football concussion to a hockey 5 MR. GRYGIEL: Uh-huh.
6 concussion? 6 A Maybe I heard about it through Ruben. I
7 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 7 recall reading of a University of Michigan survey
8 A I, I have not had that discussion. 8 study that they had done, and that they were
9 Q At any meeting the Concussion Working 9 initiating another study, which I don't know if
10 Group has any doctor on either side of the table 10 I --
11 said that the hockey-concussed brain knows it's 11 MR. KEYTE: Your question was just on the
12 from a hockey hit as opposed to a football hit? 12 NFL?
13 A I've had, I've had discussions with my 13 MR. GRYGIEL: Yes.
14 experts about Dr. Guskiewicz' study and about 14 A Or the result of that, yeah.
15 their views and questions that they have about 15 Q Are you aware that the NFL was finding
16 the -- maybe unreliability of evidence that's 16 dementia in increased frequency in retired
17 gathered from a phone survey. And some questions 17 players?
18 they had based on, on that. 18 MR. KEYTE: And objection. Foundation.
19 THE WITNESS: When you have a good moment, 19 A When are you talking about?
20 can we take a restroom break? 20 Q 2009.
21 Q Oh, sure. If I could just follow up 21 A Is that the survey study you're referred
22 before I forget. 22 to?
23 A Sure. 23 Q I'm just simply asking if you were aware
24 Q When you say "my experts," do you mean 24 of it?
25 Dr. Meeuwisse and Dr. Echemendia? 25 A Oh.
Page 127 Page 129

1 A Yes, in addition to the, the union 1 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Foundation.
2 consultants on the -- but yes, my experts, I 2 A I'm not sure if I have a specific
3 would, I would mean -- 3 recollection of that.
4 MR. KEYTE: In the Concussion Working 4 Q Isn't it true that when you were
5 Group. 5 considering what studies to do of National Hockey
6 A In the Concussion Working Group, yes. 6 League players, you wanted to, quote, leave the
7 MR. GRYGIEL: That's what I was getting 7 dementia issues to the NFL, close quote?
8 at. 8 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
9 By all means. 9 A I'm happy to explain my, the statement
10 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 10 that --
11 MR. GRYGIEL: You're welcome. 11 Q I'll ask you for that. But before we get
12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 11:26. 12 there, you remember that you were discussing
13 We're going off the record. 13 possible avenues of investigation for the
14 (Recess taken.) 14 Concussion Working Group, correct?
15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 11:41. 15 MR. KEYTE: What date are we talking
16 We're back on the record. 16 about?
17 Q Did you monitor what the NFL was finding 17 MR. GRYGIEL: 2009, December 2009.
18 as it studied retirees? 18 A Yes, December 2009, yes.
19 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Foundation. 19 Q And you were looking at different areas
20 A The -- 20 that might be investigated, correct?
21 MR. KEYTE: The NFL? 21 A We were looking at possible future
22 MR. GRYGIEL: Uh-huh. 22 projects for the Concussion Working Group.
23 A At what time? 23 Q And one future project was a investigation
24 Q I will say 2009, 2010. 24 of NHL retirees, correct?
25 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Foundation. 25 A As we've discussed.

612.338.3376
Page 130 Page 132

1 Q And that NHL retiree study would involve 1 dementia study, because the NFL has done that,
2 determining whether or not they were suffering 2 it's not really a top priority for us now.
3 from increased rates of dementia compared to 3 There's no, there's no context for it. We don't
4 comparative populations, correct? 4 have any issues.
5 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 5 (E-mail from Julie Grand to Bill
6 A It was looking at whether they had, I 6 Daly dated May 24, 2010,
7 think, long term neuro-- as I said, our kind of 7 Bates-stamped NHL2110271 through
8 characterization of it has changed over time, so 8 273 was marked as Exhibit 9 for
9 I would want to look at what that 9 identification, as of this
10 characterization was at that time, but it could 10 date.)
11 be whether retired players had a long-term 11 Q I'm going to show you, Ms. Grand, what
12 neurocognitive effect. 12 we've marked as Exhibit Number 9. And I'm sure
13 Q And by that long-term neurocognitive 13 this is a document you have seen before. The
14 effect, were you considering Alzheimer's as one 14 date at the very top is May 24, 2010, Concussion
15 of those potential effects? 15 Summary, and there is an e-mail at the top from
16 A I don't remember. I don't remember 16 you to Bill Daly. And you will see, when you
17 Alzheimer's being kind of, I guess, what would be 17 look at the middle of the page, there is an
18 thought of. I think that, at the time of that, 18 e-mail from Bill Daly to you dated December 3,
19 as I said, the NFL had had a number of players 19 2009. And then, on the page second of this
20 who had been determined to have CTE, and they had 20 document, you will see, in the middle of the
21 chosen to do two studies focusing on dementia 21 page, there are some areas of focus.
22 that I had read about. I think in, in the media, 22 This is the e-mail that you sent
23 and then I had heard about through Ruben, because 23 concerning, quote, leave the dementia issues up
24 they had reached out to him. 24 to the NFL, close quote, correct?
25 So one was the survey study, I think 25 A So, my original e-mail to Bill was
Page 131 Page 133

1 through the University of Michigan, which I don't 1 November 30th, 2009. And that was laying out,
2 think they called him about. I think that one I 2 saying we're scheduling a Concussion Working
3 read in the media. And then that other study, 3 Group meeting for January or February. And I was
4 which I think they had called him about to get 4 kind of preparing for that meeting and wanted to
5 his views on how to construct it. 5 get his ideas on some future projects. And I
6 And, at that time, you know, as I said, he 6 kind of gave him a recap on where we were on the
7 really, then he kind of started thinking, "This 7 neuropsych testing study. And I think it was
8 could be interesting. Should we do something?" 8 2009, so we had concluded the results of that
9 And then, as I said, at that time, we had 9 analysis and reported on it to our doctors and
10 zero players who had, had been determined, it 10 our trainers and the importance of neuropsych
11 was, you know, to have had CTE. And we were 11 testing as a useful tool. We had talked about
12 focusing on all those other issues that I had 12 the video analysis project, which we were in the
13 talked about that were really important in our 13 middle of. And it's 2009, which, which, which we
14 game on acute management, diagnosis, and return 14 were going to present on to the GMs and the
15 to play. And so, my reference to leave the 15 board. And we could consider whether to make
16 dementia issues to the NFL was really a, let's 16 rule changes based on it.
17 focus on all the current issues that we're 17 And then, I, I really wanted to start
18 focusing on in our program that really fall 18 thinking about what's next in the context of
19 within the scope of what the NHL and the PA has 19 talking to our concussion subcommittee and
20 decided are responsive to what our players, our 20 figuring out, you know, what are areas that we
21 doctors, our trainers are saying. We need, right 21 should, we should talk about.
22 now, to address better diagnosis, management, and 22 And so then I was kind of pulling together
23 treatment. And while Ruben and some others may 23 things that were kind of, we had talked about
24 have said it's interesting to look at a long-term 24 already, maybe in prior meetings, of the
25 study, what I'll colloquially refer to as a 25 concussion subcommittee or things that Ruben had

612.338.3376
Page 134 Page 136

1 talked about. And that's really where this kind 1 A Are you asking if we discussed it outside
2 of list comes from. So this pilot project with 2 of the context of it this?
3 the HITS, the long-term study on neurocognitive 3 Q No. I'm asking you if he gave you any
4 psychological effects of concussions, working 4 reasons for not wanting to study option B, beyond
5 with equipment manufacturers on helmets had 5 the litany of reasons you just gave me?
6 really been a topic that, off and on through the 6 MR. KEYTE: I'll just object to the form
7 years, we had talked about. You know, is, is 7 of the question, then.
8 there anything useful that can be done with 8 A No. No.
9 helmets to try to better protect against 9 Q Mr. Daly never told you he didn't like the
10 concussions was really something we kind of went 10 idea of retirees because he was afraid it might
11 back and forth on for years. 11 show a higher incidence of dementia?
12 And then, an emerging, a new emerging area 12 A No.
13 was rehab for players who were slow to cover, 13 Q Mr. Daly never told you he was concerned
14 recover from concussions and that was really a 14 that a retiree study might show increased issues
15 new area that was of particular interest to our 15 for neurocognitive impairment for retirees?
16 players, to our players and our clubs as 16 A No.
17 something that really impacted them on a current 17 Q And as you say, this just wasn't something
18 basis. You know, is this something that they 18 on the radar for the reasons you've already given
19 could proactively get involved in? 19 us?
20 And so, that was my initial e-mail to him, 20 MR. KEYTE: Object to form.
21 was November 30. And I kind of gave him my, my 21 Mischaracterizes the testimony.
22 views on it, given the lay of the land, and then 22 Q That's a fair statement, isn't it?
23 he responded to me on December 3rd. And then -- 23 A I wouldn't say "on the radar." I would
24 Q May I ask you about that? 24 say it wasn't what we characterized as something
25 A Sure. 25 we would put on our higher priority list, given
Page 135 Page 137

1 Q In his response to you on December 3rd, 1 the other things that we determined were, should
2 you said he doesn't think there is anything that 2 be really more of our focus, given our time and
3 can be gained that would benefit our game from 3 attention. And the fact that we didn't have any
4 option B, correct? 4 players who were exhibiting long-term issues, and
5 I mean, that's a yes or no. I'm just 5 no one had been determined to have CTE.
6 laying a foundation here. 6 Q When you say, "we weren't having any
7 A So, as I said, Bill and I were both on the 7 players who had any long-term issues," the NHL
8 same page, that given the context of the fact 8 had, at that time, no program in place to monitor
9 that we hadn't had any players who had been 9 retiree health to see if any of them did,
10 determined to have CTE in our game and given all 10 correct?
11 the other current issues we were focusing on, we 11 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
12 were on the same page that it didn't make sense 12 A We have a number of programs to --
13 to have as a top priority, at that point, what 13 Q I didn't ask for a number of programs.
14 I'll call kind of a retired player study or a 14 MR. KEYTE: No. Let --
15 long-term study. 15 MR. GRYGIEL: No, I need an answer to my
16 Q Did he ask -- give you any other reasons 16 question, because otherwise, I'm just going to
17 for why he didn't think that option B, the study 17 ask for more time, Jim. I just need an answer to
18 of retirees, would benefit the game, other than 18 my question.
19 what you've just said? 19 MR. KEYTE: Let her answer the question.
20 A I don't understand the question. 20 Q No, you're giving me something else. Let
21 Q Sure. You've just given me a long litany 21 me, let me -- bad question, and I withdraw it.
22 of reasons why you and Mr. Daly didn't think 22 MR. KEYTE: Excuse me.
23 option B was a priority. 23 MR. GRYGIEL: I withdraw it.
24 My question: Did he give you any reasons 24 MR. KEYTE: Okay, you can withdraw it,
25 himself apart from what you've already told me? 25 because you had a good question and she was going

612.338.3376
Page 138 Page 140

1 to give you the answer, and now you don't want 1 commissioner, in December 2009, about the future
2 it. 2 directions you were analyzing, correct?
3 Q The question is this: Did the National 3 A I'm sorry. Can you repeat the question?
4 Hockey League have a systematic program in place, 4 Q Sure. You spoke with Commissioner Bettman
5 as of December 2009, to monitor retirees' 5 in December of 2009 about the future directions
6 neurocognitive health? 6 the Concussion Working Group was looking at,
7 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 7 correct?
8 Overbroad. 8 A I sent him my e-mail. We communicated by
9 A No. 9 e-mail. I don't remember if we had a e-mail
10 Q So, if there were a player in Calgary who 10 communication or a conversation, but we
11 was suffering from dementia and was an NHL 11 communicated.
12 retiree who had taken a lot of hits to the head, 12 Q I'm simply -- and I don't mean to be
13 there was no systematic program the NHL had to 13 allusive about this -- looking at Exhibit 9, the
14 apprise itself of that sad fact, was there? 14 very first paragraph there refers to a discussion
15 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Foundation. 15 with GBB. That's Gary Bettman, right?
16 You can -- objection. Foundation. Go 16 A Oh, so there. I had spoken with him.
17 ahead. 17 Well, there you go. I speak to him often, so I
18 MR. GRYGIEL: That means it's a really 18 didn't remember that specific conversation, but
19 good question. 19 maybe we should cut that part from the video.
20 MR. KEYTE: No, it means you're making up 20 Q And you say he supported a focus on option
21 facts -- 21 C and D, correct?
22 MR. GRYGIEL: I wish I were. 22 A That, that is what I say.
23 MR. KEYTE: -- and then, but you can 23 Q Did Mr. Bettman tell you that he too
24 answer the question. 24 wanted to leave dementia issues to the National
25 A I don't have a personal knowledge of the 25 Football League?
Page 139 Page 141

1 manner in which our clubs or the League have the 1 A Gary, Gary, the commissioner was similarly
2 means of coming into information on -- through 2 aware and very involved in our concussion program
3 Workers' Comp, through other retirement plans, 3 and all of the aspects of what we were doing on
4 through our substance abuse and behavioral health 4 a -- in terms of our video analysis program, and
5 programs, or other benefit programs, of coming 5 our neuropsych testing, the results of it, the
6 through our alumni programs, through other 6 education to our clubs, our players, how to get,
7 relationships with our clubs, of coming across 7 you know, everything I've gone through, and the
8 that information about retirees and issues they 8 fact that we, we didn't have players in the NHL
9 may be having. So, I don't think I'm in a 9 who had been determined to have CTE. So he was
10 position to answer that question. 10 similarly in agreement that the kind of
11 Q Is there anyone you can identify me, 11 priorities, as we thought of them, made sense.
12 identify for me in the National Hockey League 12 Q Apart from CTE, did you discuss with
13 hierarchy who would be better positioned to 13 Mr. Bettman in December of 2009 whether a retiree
14 answer that than you? 14 study may help to identify whether retirees were
15 A Perhaps Bill Daly can answer that question 15 suffering at an increased rate for dementia?
16 for you. I don't know. I know it's not my job 16 A We, we didn't study it. We didn't talk
17 to have the answer to that question. 17 about it. We weren't, we weren't, we weren't
18 Q So when you talk about, we weren't having 18 avoiding the issue. It wasn't an area that, that
19 this issue in terms of players develop, retired 19 had come to our attention. It wasn't
20 players developing dementia, you're meaning we 20 something -- players hadn't come out. Players
21 haven't had public reports of it in the 21 weren't complaining of it. Our clubs have long
22 newspaper, correct? 22 standing relationships with their players through
23 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 23 their alumni. The League has relationships with
24 A We weren't aware of it as an issue. 24 players. This wasn't something that we were
25 Q You spoke with Mr. Bettman, the 25 aware of and, like, hiding and keeping under the

612.338.3376
Page 142 Page 144

1 radar. It, it wasn't -- this wasn't something we 1 Q That this is a plaintiffs' attorneys'
2 were avoiding. This, this wasn't something that 2 case?
3 existed as an issue. So -- 3 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Foundation.
4 Q Speaking of a alumni, you know who Mark 4 A He wrote a 20 -- 30 -- I don't know,
5 Napier is, don't you? 5 some-page letter and, if you want to point to a
6 A I do. 6 specific sentence.
7 Q He is the head of the NHL Alumni 7 Q I can, but I'm not going to waste the
8 Association today? 8 time.
9 A I believe so, yes. 9 A Okay.
10 Q Have you spoken with Mark Napier about 10 Q Did you write that letter for Commissioner
11 this lawsuit? 11 Bettman, by the way?
12 A I have not. 12 A No.
13 Q Have you ever read any e-mails with Mark 13 Q Did you edit it?
14 Napier about this lawsuit? 14 A I reviewed it. I provided some input on
15 A I don't believe so. 15 it.
16 Q Are you aware of any communications 16 Q Who drafted it in the first instance?
17 between Mark Napier and Bill Daly concerning this 17 A I don't know.
18 lawsuit? 18 Q Did it come from outside the League
19 A Not that I recall. 19 offices or inside the League offices, the first
20 Q Apart from lawyers, has anyone in the 20 draft?
21 National Hockey League executive offices told you 21 A I don't know.
22 what the alumni position is on this lawsuit? 22 Q Was that letter provided to the National
23 MR. KEYTE: Again, this -- I wouldn't -- 23 Hockey League Players' Association for review
24 to the extent that answer calls for any work 24 before it was filed in the lawsuit in this case?
25 product or attorney-client communications, I'd 25 A I don't know.
Page 143 Page 145

1 instruct you not to answer it. Otherwise, you 1 Q Are you aware of any input whatsoever the
2 may answer it. 2 National Hockey League Players' Association added
3 A I mean, I think we've heard some general 3 to that letter before it was filed in this case?
4 feedback that some of the alumni think that the 4 A I don't know.
5 lawsuit -- that there's no merit to the lawsuit. 5 Q Have you personally had any discussions
6 Q Can you identify -- 6 with anyone at the National Hockey League
7 A I don't remember if that's through Mark 7 Players' Association about the content of that
8 Napier or others. 8 letter?
9 Q Can you identify who those alumni in 9 A No.
10 particular are? 10 Q Has anyone at the National Hockey League
11 A No. 11 Players' Association said to you, "Hey, you're
12 Q Do you know whether it's more than one 12 talking about our joint program. You should have
13 alumni? 13 consulted us before you filed this letter"?
14 A I think we've heard that feedback from 14 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
15 multiple sources. I, I can't -- I don't have 15 A I have not discussed the letter with
16 with any specificity a recollection of who that 16 anyone at the Players' Association.
17 is, but there seems to be a feedback and 17 Q And you're not aware of when the Players'
18 sentiment that this is more of a plaintiffs' 18 Association first received a copy of it, if they
19 attorneys' action than something that is, you 19 did?
20 know, motivated by players who have, you know -- 20 A No.
21 I don't know. 21
22 Q Commissioner Bettman wrote that, in fact, 22
23 in response to this letter to Senator Blumenthal, 23
24 right? 24
25 A Wrote what? 25

612.338.3376
Page 146 Page 148

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 147 Page 149

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 150 Page 152

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 151 Page 153

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23 Q Are you aware of any person acting on
24 24 behalf of the National Hockey League who had ever
25 25 surveyed medical literature prior to that date to

612.338.3376
Page 154 Page 156

1 determine whether or not there were references 1 knowing whether any person at the NHL -- I really
2 between CTE specifically and associations with 2 have no way of knowing what any person at the NHL
3 other pro sports? 3 was aware of, if they were aware of that
4 A You would have to ask my medical advisors 4 relationship prior to 2009.
5 that question. 5 Q You remember Chip Burke, of course, right?
6 Q You're not aware of anyone ever, on behalf 6 A Of course.
7 of the National Hockey League, right up through 7 Q And when you joined the National Hockey
8 the present, who was ever surveyed the medical 8 League, he was still one of the leads of the
9 literature to see how far back the associations 9 concussion project, correct?
10 between chronic traumatic encephalopathy and 10 A Yes.
11 contact sports goes? 11 Q Did he ever tell you what literature
12 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Overbroad 12 search he had done in connection with his role in
13 and vague as to the type of sports. Also, it 13 that project?
14 lacks foundation. 14 A I don't recall that discussion, but that
15 A Again, you can ask my medical advisors who 15 doesn't mean we didn't have it. I've been
16 I rely on for being current on the state of the 16 working on this stuff for almost 20 years.
17 science. That's their area, not mine. 17 Q At any time you can recall, did
18 Q So you're not aware? 18 Dr. Echemendia he had surveyed the medical
19 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Lacks 19 literature going back to the 1900s to determine
20 foundation. 20 what the references to chronic traumatic
21 A I, I rely on my medical experts for being 21 encephalopathy, in particular, were?
22 current on the state of the science. That's 22 A We can fast forward to the fact that our
23 their area of expertise. 23 medical experts, who I still rely on, I rely on
24 Q So you're not aware that as far back as 24 them to tell me. And the NHL medical experts,
25 1928 there were associations between boxers, for 25 and the PA medical experts, to interpret the
Page 155 Page 157

1 example, and chronic traumatic encephalopathy? 1 scientific literature and tell me what the
2 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Foundation. 2 consensus is in the medical community on kind of
3 A I have become aware of that in the context 3 what I need to know from a scientific basis.
4 of this litigation. 4 CTE is one of those areas. And so, we've
5 Q But you weren't before then? 5 had those discussions in the context of the
6 MR. KEYTE: Well, again, objection. 6 concussion subcommittee on CTE and, and
7 Foundation. 7 particularly in the context of the concussion in
8 A Not aware of that before. 8 sport consensus statements. And so, prior to
9 Q And you're not aware of anyone with the 9 those conversations, in the concussion in sport
10 National Hockey League executive offices who was 10 statements, did we discuss CTE and whether we
11 either? 11 should, you know, say and do anything and warn
12 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Foundation. 12 anything? It, you know, I think it started it
13 A When? 13 come up in some questions, I think, from, from
14 Q Prior to 2009. 14 players or from clubs. But in terms of would we,
15 A 2009? 15 at a league level, have issued this statement in,
16 Q That's my date right now, in my question. 16 in -- what was your --
17 A I, I'm not aware of -- 17 MR. KEYTE: 1999.
18 MR. KEYTE: Whether that somebody was 18 A -- 1999.
19 searching for literature on boxing? Is that the 19 Q Not would you, could you have?
20 question? 20 A Could we have --
21 A Someone, any single person -- 21 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection, lacks
22 MR. GRYGIEL: The question is what it is. 22 foundation.
23 She knows it. 23 A I, I think there, there was no scientific
24 A -- at the NHL was aware of that 24 basis for doing so, was the view of our medical
25 relationship, no. It's -- I have no way of 25 experts. And that would have been -- that would

612.338.3376
Page 158 Page 160

1 have been misleading and dangerous to do that 1
2 sort of thing. 2
3 Q Could you read my question back, please? 3
4 (Record read.) 4
5 Q Simple question. 5
6 A I'm sorry. Could you say it again? 6
7 MR. KEYTE: That's asked and answered. 7
8 MR. GRYGIEL: It's not answered, actually. 8
9 MR. KEYTE: It is. 9
10 A I'm sorry, could you do it one more time? 10
11 MR. KEYTE: It's a metaphysical question, 11
12 but it's asked and answered. 12
13 A I'm sorry. Can you say it one more time. 13
14 I'm sorry. I don't, wasn't focusing. 14
15 (Record read.) 15
16 A You would have to ask him that question. 16
17 Q You're not aware of him doing that? 17
18 A I don't recall him reporting it to me, but 18
19 you would certainly have to ask him that 19
20 question. 20
21 Q And you're not aware of Dr. Meeuwisse ever 21
22 making that investigation, are you? 22
23 MR. KEYTE: Again, Objection. Foundation. 23
24 A They don't report to me on -- both of -- 24
25 I'm very comfortable that the two of them are 25
Page 159 Page 161

1 aware of, of, of the science and the current 1
2 state of the literature. And so -- but you could 2
3 ask them those questions. 3
4 Q Because neither one has ever told you they 4
5 have done that, yes or no? 5
7 Also, it's -- since you've taken their 7
8 depositions and gone over what they did, I find 8 Q Can you identify a single National Hockey
9 this to be a misleading line of questioning. 9 League player that you are aware who was
10 Q You can answer. 10 evidencing undue anxiety because of something
11 A I have not asked them that, those 11 about CTE being said in the media?
12 questions. 12 A Well, we didn't disclose the identity of,
13 13 of the players. We protected --
14 14 Q I didn't ask if you can disclose it. I
15 15 asked, do you know of one by name?
16 16 A By name?
17 17 Q Yeah.
18 18 A I'm not -- we didn't talk about names.
19 19 Q So you heard that there were players who
20 20 were concerned about CTE, but you don't know any
21 21 of their names?
22 22 MR. KEYTE: Asked and answered.
23 23 A In the context of our concussion
24 24 subcommittee meetings, our practitioners would
25 25 have a number of, you know, situations that they

612.338.3376
Page 162 Page 164

1 referred to about many patients who had come in 1 A I do.
2 having -- you know, who have had one concussion, 2 Q And Brian Burke has spent a long time in
3 two concussion, and would come to them concerned 3 the National Hockey League in different
4 with the anxiety and concerns about the fact that 4 capacities?
5 they had had -- that they had CTE. 5 A He has.
6 And so -- 6 Q And Brian Burke is not only a hockey
7 Q Can you identify any of these 7 executive, he is also a lawyer, correct?
8 practitioners by name? 8 A He is.
9 A Sure. It's the members of our concussion 9 Q And Brian Burke is a fairly outspoken
10 subcommittee. Dr. Echemendia, Dr. Kutcher, 10 fellow, it's fair to say?
11 Dr. Rizos, Dr. Comper, Dr. Meeuwisse. 11 A He is.
12 Q Oh, I thought you were talking about club 12 Q And do you agree with Mr. Burke that NHL
13 doctors. 13 players are entitled to a full description of all
14 A Sure. Dr. Aubry. 14 the potential risks they face from playing
15 Q He's one, right? 15 professional hockey?
16 A Uh-huh. 16 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad.
17 MR. KEYTE: Well, wait a minute. You, 17 A I'm not sure what context Brian Burke
18 you, you -- 18 would have made that statement.
19 MR. GRYGIEL: No, she's answered. 19 Q Say, in a general managers' meeting?
20 MR. KEYTE: It's now a different question. 20 A Do you have a -- something to show me?
21 You were asking about club doctors only now? 21 Q You don't want to take my word for it?
22 Q Well, what I want it know is, which 22 A I don't. I feel like context may be
23 doctors -- 23 important with that kind of a statement.
24 MR. KEYTE: These are doctors? 24 Q So other than that, you can't answer my
25 Q -- from which club told you, "I have a 25 question?
Page 163 Page 165

1 current player who is overly anxious about this 1 A Can you repeat the question?
2 CTE news"? 2 MR. GRYGIEL: Can you read it back,
3 A Well, that wasn't my statement. I wasn't 3 Amanda?
4 saying it was -- you asked if it was NHL players, 4 (Record read.)
5 and I said that the people who spoke to it didn't 5 Q It was: Potential risks associated with
6 identify who their patients were. They were 6 playing National Hockey League hockey -- I'd work
7 speaking about the fact that people in society, 7 on that question.
8 in general, who are getting concussions, are 8 A That NHL players are entitled to a full
9 having an increased level of concern about what 9 description of the risks of playing NHL hockey?
10 it means to get a concussion, given -- and what 10 Q Right.
11 the consequences of that may mean, given all the 11 A It sounds like an easy question to answer,
12 attention that is being focused on CTE. 12 but I guess I don't really know what it, what it
13 And so, they're hearing about it, from a 13 means.
14 clinical perspective, when patients are coming 14 So, I guess I don't know -- I guess I
15 in, in to see them. And so, that, those are the 15 don't know what that means. It sounds like it
16 stories that they're sharing in the context of 16 should be easy to answer, but I don't think it
17 concussion subcommittee meetings without saying 17 is. So if I were to unpack it a little bit, let
18 necessarily if that's a hockey player or a 18 me try to do that.
19 football player or a soccer player or a gymnast 19 Q If you can't answer it, you can't answer
20 or somebody who maybe hurt their head some other 20 it. That's all.
21 way. We didn't talk about who their patients 21 A Well, I don't think it's a yes or no, is,
22 were. We talked about what's, what's the 22 is, is --
23 conversations that are happening to patients who 23 Q That's fair enough. I'll be satisfied
24 are experiencing concussions. 24 with that.
25 Q You know who Brian Burke is, don't you? 25 A Well, can I try to unpack it a little bit?

612.338.3376
Page 166 Page 168

1 Q Mr. Keyte can ask you that, if he wants, 1
2 on redirect. 2
3 MR. GRYGIEL: But she answered my 3
4 question. 4
5 MR. KEYTE: You don't want her to explain 5
6 why -- 6
7 MR. GRYGIEL: No, I absolutely don't, 7
8 because I'm running out of time. 8
9 MR. KEYTE: Okay. That, that's why? I 9
10 guess we'll just have to ask that. 10
11 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm happy to explain. 11
12 MR. KEYTE: No. He doesn't want your 12
13 explanation. 13
14 THE WITNESS: Okay. 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 167 Page 169

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 170 Page 172

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 171 Page 173

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 174 Page 176

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5 of
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 175 Page 177

1 1
2 THE WITNESS: Can we take another restroom 2
3 break? 3
4 MR. GRYGIEL: Just -- 4
5 MR. KEYTE: Yes. 5
6 MR. GRYGIEL: How can I say no to that? 6
7 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 7
8 MR. GRYGIEL: That's all right. 8
9 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 12:37, and 9
10 we're off the record. 10
11 (Recess taken.) 11
12 AFTERNOON SESSION 12
13 (Time noted: 1:27 p.m.) 13
14 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 1:27. We 14
15 are back on the record. 15
16 Q Good afternoon, Ms. Grand. I know you're 16
17 aware you're still under oath. 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 178 Page 180

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 179 Page 181

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 182 Page 184

1 1 A Uh-huh.
2 2 Q It goes on to say, "I explained that these
3 3 people are aggressive."
4 4 Who are "these people"?
5 5 A Oh, I was referring, I think, to the folks
6 Q Who is Larry Tanenbaum? 6 at Boston University.
7 A He is an owner of Toronto, the Toronto 7 Q And you say, "We wanted to proceed with
8 Maple Leafs. 8 baby steps and not give the perception that we
9 Q Okay. 9 thought this was so important. So we decided to
10 (E-mail from Ruben Echemendia to 10 bring a small group to this meeting. And if we
11 Bill Daly and Julie Grand dated 11 thought the info was compelling, we then involved
12 September 24, 2010, 12 the PA and the full CWG."
13 Bates-stamped NHL2135004 through 13 When you're referring to the "this" in the
14 006 was marked as Exhibit 13 for 14 context of important, is the "this" the death of
15 identification, as of this 15 Bob Probert or something else?
16 date.) 16 A No, this is the science of and the
17 Q This is number 13. Showing you, 17 research they're doing on CTE.
18 Ms. Grand, what we've marked as Exhibit 18 Q So you didn't want to give the perception
19 Number 13. You will see it is a couple-of-page 19 that that science and the research they were
20 document. It begins with the heading, "RE: FW: 20 doing on CTE, quote, was so important, close
21 Bob Probert's brain donated to researchers by 21 quote?
22 family." The date of the e-mail is September 24, 22 A Well, it's the, it's the concept of, what
23 2010. 23 is the scientific validity of the research that
24 In the middle of the first page is an 24 they're doing.
25 e-mail from you to Mr. Daly and some others, 25 And as I discussed before, these folks, we
Page 183 Page 185

1 correct? 1 thought their research they were doing was very
2 A Yes. 2 important, but it was an evolving science, and it
3 Q And when you turn to the second page -- 3 was still very young, so to speak. And there
4 actually, the second page in, so to speak, you 4 was -- they had only done research on brains of
5 will see there is an article from A.J. Perez, Bob 5 people who had presented themselves with a lot of
6 Probert's brain donated to researchers by 6 symptoms, and they hadn't looked at any brains of
7 family." 7 any control group players.
8 Do you recall that? 8 And they were making a lot of public
9 A I, I -- yes, I see this here. 9 assertions, really, about causal connections
10 Q And you discussed in a meeting with the 10 between concussions and CTE. And so, we wanted
11 Boston University people about -- with Roman 11 to speak to them and understand the research that
12 Stoykewych from the PA, correct? 12 they were doing, but we didn't want to give the
13 A I don't know if I recall Roman being at 13 perception that we thought there was credence to
14 that meeting. I remember their medical 14 causal connection.
15 representatives being at that meeting. 15 Q So, am I correct in understanding that you
16 Q Paul Comper was there, wasn't he? 16 were saying the subject was important, but that
17 A Paul Comper was there. John Rizos was 17 the causal connection shouldn't be
18 there. Roman may have been there. I don't have 18 overemphasized, because you didn't believe there
19 a specific recollection. 19 was a valid basis for it?
20 Q At the very bottom of the first page of 20 A That's fair.
21 this Exhibit 13, you will see there is a 21 Q Okay. You can see I was simply trying to
22 paragraph that begins in an e-mail that you 22 understand what you wrote there, because one
23 wrote. "Roman from the PA called," correct? 23 reading to me was, you didn't think the research
24 A Yes. In my e-mail to, to Bill? 24 itself was important, but you're not saying that,
25 Q Yes. 25 right?

612.338.3376
Page 186 Page 188

1 A No, we've, we've consistently said that we 1 A You know, I -- just to put, go back in,
2 think the research in CTE is important, and 2 kind of, my mind of the timing of this. So this
3 that's why we've, we've -- we're taking many 3 is October of 2010.
4 steps to follow it, to meet with them, to 4 So, we would have had a concussion
5 understand it. And that's consistently been the 5 subcommittee meeting in June of 2010, where I
6 case. 6 think the -- the discussion among the doctors of
7 (E-mail from Willem Meeuwisse to 7 the union and the League were to discuss, again,
8 Julie Grand dated October 29, 8 an interest in studying long-term, kind of a -- I
9 2010, Bates-stamped NHL2087294 9 guess I would say a shorthand, a long-term study
10 through 298 was marked as 10 of neurocognitive issues and to see if there was
11 Exhibit 14 for identification, 11 any common identifying features might have been
12 as of this date.) 12 what we discussed.
13 Q I'm going to show you, Ms. Grand, what we 13 And I think Ruben and John and Winne or
14 are going to mark as Exhibit Number 14. You will 14 some combination of the physicians were going to
15 see it is a multipage document. On the first 15 get together and develop proposals to try to
16 page is the date 10/29/2010. The second page 16 address that.
17 says, "Concussion Working Group Draft: Data 17 And I think, following that, Winne kind of
18 analytics/public strategies." 18 resurrected an earlier proposal that Ruben had
19 The first page shows it's from 19 put together and maybe had circulated.
20 Dr. Meeuwisse to you, with a carbon copy to 20 So, I don't know if we kind of went
21 Dr. Echemendia. 21 through the process of specifically discussing
22 You've seen this document before, haven't 22 this. I think that, as I think through this,
23 you? 23 this was, I think, Winne really probably pulling
24 A I have. 24 this together for the purpose of doing the work
25 Q If you would so kindly turn to the page 25 that he was going to do with John and Ruben and
Page 187 Page 189

1 that ends in the Bates Numbers 97. 1 Winne and Paul in putting together his proposals.
2 A Sure. 2 I don't, I don't, I don't have a specific
3 Q And at the very top, it says, "Possible 3 recollection of talking through this, but I think
4 study for future consideration," correct? 4 he was kind of pulling it together to do the work
5 A Yes. 5 he was going to do with them.
6 Q And that first one, boldfaced, is, quote, 6 Q Did you discuss with Mr. Daly whether
7 Are there neurocognitive and psychological 7 doing such a study, as is described here, was a
8 consequences of playing in the NHL, question 8 good idea?
9 mark, close quote. 9 MR. KEYTE: At that time?
10 I read that correctly, didn't I? 10 MR. GRYGIEL: Yes.
11 A Yes. 11 A Did I discuss with -- I don't, I don't
12 Q And you'll see underneath the fourth -- 12 recall discussing this with, with Bill at this
13 three full paragraphs there is a proposal, right? 13 time.
14 A Yes. 14 Q Do you remember Mr. Daly saying anything
15 Q And Dr. Echemendia is the one who put that 15 along the lines to you of, "Julie, we've already
16 proposal together, correct? 16 discussed this, and we've agreed we're going to
17 A I can't -- this came to me from Winne to 17 leave the dementia issues to the NFL"?
18 me, but this may have been Winne recirculating 18 A I mean, as I explained, when, when Bill
19 something that Ruben had previously put together. 19 and I, back in December of 2009, had, had that
20 Q And did you discuss with him this 20 discussion and decided that we were going to put
21 proposal's feasibility? 21 other things as a higher priority, it was, again,
22 A Did I discuss with Winne or -- 22 in the context of, you know, that timeframe. And
23 Q Dr. Echemendia. 23 now -- and I said, this was kind of an evolving
24 MR. KEYTE: As of the date? 24 and very fluid situation.
25 MR. GRYGIEL: Yup. 25 So, now we're almost a year later. We're

612.338.3376
Page 190 Page 192

1 continuing our conversations with the Players' 1 at some general level, Commissioner Bettman's
2 Association, with our doctors, with their 2 informed of -- and kept in the loop of what we're
3 doctors. Bill and I are fully a part of those 3 doing at the concussion subcommittee, and, and,
4 conversations. With the union, we're continuing 4 and we talk.
5 to say, "Let's discuss this." It's back on the 5 Did I discuss with him this particular
6 table with our conversation in June. Let's see 6 proposal?
7 if there's common ground. The doctors would go 7 I mean, probably most every day I'm
8 down and, and -- back on the table is really the 8 working on different initiatives for the
9 wrong characterization. So, I don't even mean 9 concussion subcommittee, so I don't report to him
10 that. 10 on a daily basis as to, kind of, what's
11 It was, it was -- came up again at the 11 happening. And, as I said, things are very
12 next meeting. Really meeting to meeting to 12 fluid.
13 meeting, it was discussed at every single 13 So, at various points, I might give him an
14 meeting, so -- 14 update. I don't remember if I would have given
15 Q Do you remember it coming up again, 15 him one at this decision -- at this, at this
16 because Mr. Probert had showed a brain that had 16 particular point.
17 evidence of CTE, as had Mr. Fleming prior to this 17 Q You mentioned earlier the collaborative
18 time? 18 nature in which the NHL and the PA worked in the
19 A I don't know that that's why it came up 19 Concussion Working Group.
20 again, to be honest. I think that it was -- I 20 Do you remember that?
21 don't know that that's why it came up. I don't 21 A Yes.
22 remember that that's why it came up. 22 Q And you made the point that
23 Q Did you talk with Commissioner Bettman 23 Dr. Echemendia, for example, wasn't perhaps as
24 about whether or not such a study was advisable 24 fully cognizant of the labor law realities when
25 as of September -- October 29, 2010? 25 he said a retiree study wouldn't require PA
Page 191 Page 193

1 A I don't have a specific recollection. 1 consent.
2 Q Was Commissioner Bettman kept apprised of 2 Do you remember that?
3 what these possible studies for future 3 A Political and labor law, yes.
4 consideration might entail? 4
5 A I don't remember if I discussed with him 5
6 this, this particular document. 6
7 Q Do you remember previously, in 2009, you 7
8 had discussed with Commissioner Bettman your 8
9 ranking of the priorities for future study, 9
10 right? 10
11 A I discussed with him potential future 11
12 projects, which was a -- yup. There was a 12
13 potential hits projects. There was a -- should 13
14 we look at the role of exercise? Should we do 14
15 this, this study? Should we look at helmets? 15
16 Yeah. 16
17 Q I'm looking at Exhibit 9, where it shows 17
18 that Commissioner Bettman agreed with the focus 18
19 on option C and D, neither of which was a study 19
20 of retiree -- retirees. 20
21 My question was: With this study that 21
22 we're referring to in Exhibit 14 coming back up 22
23 onto the surface, did you go to Commissioner 23
24 Bettman and say, "Are you okay with this?" 24
25 A So, I would say that, on -- I wouldn't -- 25

612.338.3376
Page 194 Page 196

1 1 Q You played a role in the drafting of that
2 2 document?
3 3 A I would have been provided, you know, a
4 4 draft of the document, and as would everyone on
5 5 the concussion subcommittee, for comment.
6 6 Q And you recall commenting on no fewer than
7 7 12 specific drafts of that, don't you?
8 8 A I don't remember how many drafts were
9 9 circulated.
10 10 Q Any reason to doubt that number?
11 11 A I have no way of knowing how many it was,
12 12 but if you say it's 12, that's fine.
13 13 Q Okay. You made comments on all these
14 14 drafts, didn't you?
15 15 A If they gave me 12 drafts, I probably took
16 16 the time to carefully read and provide comments
17 17 on 12 drafts, hopefully, as did all the other
18 18 members of the concussion subcommittee.
19 Q Now, there are a number of ways to look at 19 Q Did you read any of the criticisms from
20 what the Concussion Working Group has done, and 20 the reviewers at the Canadian Medical Association
21 one of them is to do with short-term effects in 21 Journal before the article was finally in shape
22 terms of managing concussions, correct? 22 for publication?
23 A I don't know that I would describe it as 23 A I don't know. It sounds vaguely familiar.
24 short-term effects. 24 Q Do you remember any of the reviewers
25 Q Well, one of the things that the 25 asking why you weren't looking at the long-term
Page 195 Page 197

1 Concussion Working Group has looked at is how 1 effects of concussions, including CTE?
2 best to manage concussions in terms of, 2 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
3 specifically of return-to-play guidelines? 3 A I don't. But that was never a purpose of
4 A Yes, the Concussion Working Group has 4 this study, so -- but I don't.
5 focused on -- I would say kind of the main focus 5
6 of the Concussion Working Group has been on, I 6
7 would say, diagnosis, management, and return to 7
8 play. 8
9 Q And that has been, if I might be 9
10 generalizing about it, captured in the concussion 10
11 protocol as it's gone through its various 11
12 iterations? 12
13 A The -- I mean, starting with '97 and the 13
14 neuropsychological testing program, that is 14
15 really coming up with a tool to help physicians 15
16 come up with a better way to address return to 16
17 play. 17
18 Q Apart from the article that was published 18
19 in 2011 -- well, first, you recall that article, 19
20 don't you, published in the Canadian Medical 20
21 Association Journal? 21
22 A Yes. 22
23 Q In fact, you remember the drafting of that 23
24 document? 24
25 A Yes. 25

612.338.3376
Page 198 Page 200

1 1 and figure out how to move the ball forward.
2 2 And Ruben came up with this idea of what
3 3 he called a scientific advisory board or a
4 4 committee, and then it kind of morphed from that
5 5 into, I think, this, this task group that had
6 6 outside experts.
7 7 And we thought it would be useful to bring
8 8 in some external people who are -- you know, who
9 Q Let me shortcut. 9 often do data analysis, in addition to,
10 When was this task force formed to look at 10 obviously, the folks in our subcommittee who had
11 the long-term effects of concussions? 11 that as an area of expertise, but just to get
12 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. I 12 some fresh views on it.
13 think that's a mischaracterization of that 13 Q And did Dr. Echemendia say one of the
14 testimony. 14 ideas of these fresh views were these were people
15 A I think the task force was agreed to be 15 who didn't have a political side to the agenda
16 formed maybe in 2000, I don't know, 13. 16 here, because they weren't affiliated with the
17 Q Who is on it? 17 NHL or with the PA?
18 A So, in, you'd have to look at the 18 A No.
19 concussion subcommittee minutes to see, but we 19 Q I'm going to show you quickly what we've
20 brought, we were bringing three outside experts 20 marked as Exhibit Number 15.
21 to bring on it, which were Grant Iverson, Mike 21
22 McCrea, Kutcher. And then a number of us who are 22
23 on the concussion subcommittee are doctors and 23
24 trainers, you know, Ruben, Paul, Ruben 24
25 Echemendia, Paul Comper, Winne Meeuwisse, John 25
Page 199 Page 201

1 Rizos. Mark Aubry was probably on it. 1
2 You'd have to look -- I'm sure you have a 2
3 document that identifies who's on it. 3
4 Q Why was a decision made to bring in 4
5 Iverson and McCray? 5
6 A I -- how were they selected? How were 6
7 they picked -- 7
8 Q I'm simply wondering -- 8
9 A -- or why did he we decide to bring on -- 9
10 Q That's -- 10
11 A -- outside experts? 11
12 Q The latter, thank you. 12
13 A You know, I think this kind of came out of 13
14 a suggestion that Ruben had of maybe forming what 14
15 he called a scientific advisory board, and we 15
16 thought it could be useful to bring on some 16
17 outside experts to comment on the work of the 17
18 concussion subcommittee, review our research to 18
19 date, comment on our proposals. 19
20 We were coming out of that March -- that 20
21 May meeting that we had had with the Player 21
22 Association, where we had hit a bit of a 22
23 roadblock. And we had put forth some proposals, 23
24 and, and they had been denied by the Players' 24
25 Association, and we were trying to really regroup 25

612.338.3376
Page 202 Page 204

1 1 I'll read it to you. Quote, We believe
2 2 that repetitive brain trauma is a necessary
3 3 factor for developing the disease" -- and they
4 4 are talking about CTE -- comma, "but not a
5 5 sufficient factor. We now must learn why some
6 6 people get the disease and others don't and why
7 7 CTE progresses more quickly and severally in some
8 8 individuals than in others."
9 9 I simply wanted to point that out to you
10 MR. GRYGIEL: You're familiar with the 10 as the predicate for my previous question,
11 subsequent remedial repairs doctrine. Do you 11 because I wasn't making it up.
12 remember that? 12 A Thank you.
13 MR. KEYTE: Yeah, it doesn't work. There 13 Q Now, looking at this first page here,
14 is a rule of evidence on that. 14 you're commenting to Gary Meagher and Bill Daly
15 MR. GRYGIEL: There is. That's why I was 15 and Frank Brown, right?
16 bringing it up. 16 A Yes.
17 MR. KEYTE: So we'll both be long retired 17 Q Gary Meagher's job was public relations?
18 when there is an actual study that's useful. 18 A Yes.
19 MR. GRYGIEL: You may be retired. You 19 Q Frank Brown's job was public relations?
20 work at Skadden. 20 A Yes.
21 Q Do you remember when the first report came 21
22 out on Rick Martin's chronic traumatic 22
23 encephalopathy? We've already discussed that a 23
24 little bit. 24
25 MR. KEYTE: I don't think we have. 25
Page 203 Page 205

1 A I don't remember discussing that. 1
2 Q Okay. Let me show you what we've marked 2
3 as Exhibit Number 16. 3
4 (E-mail from Julie Grand to Gary 4
5 Meagher and Bill Daly dated 5
6 October 5, 2011, Bates-stamped 6
7 NHL182010 through 11 was marked 7
8 as Exhibit 16 for 8
10 date.) 10
11 Q And you'll see at the very top it says, 11
12 "REBU study on Rick Martin." And in the middle 12
13 of the page you will see there's a headline, 13
14 "Boston University researchers report NHL star 14
15 Rick Martin had chronic traumatic 15
16 encephalopathy." 16
17 You've seen this document before, haven't 17
18 you? 18
19 A Yes. 19
20 Q Quickly, simply to loop back to something 20
21 we talked about earlier, would you turn the page 21
22 over, please, Ms. Grand. 22
23 In the third paragraph down from the top, 23
24 you will see there is a quote from Robert Stern. 24
25 Do you see the quote there? 25

612.338.3376
Page 206 Page 208

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6 Q Now, we looked a couple of moments ago at
7 7 the proposal for a study, quote, Are there
8 8 neurocognitive and psychological consequences of
9 9 playing in the NHL?
10 10 Do you recall that discussion?
11 11 Maybe I should have pointed you --
12 12 MR. KEYTE: What exhibit is it?
13 13 Q -- to the actual document.
14 14 Yeah.
15 15 A Exhibit 14?
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 207 Page 209

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 . 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 210 Page 212

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25 Q Now, we discussed earlier, Ms. Grand, the
Page 211 Page 213

1 1 question of a difference between a study of the
2 2 psychological neurocognitive effects on current
3 3 players as opposed to retirees and the PA's
4 4 position on that.
5 5 I don't mean to reinvite that whole
6 6 discussion, but I do want to show you what we are
7 7 going to mark as Exhibit 18 and simply ask you to
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 214 Page 216

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22 Do you know what those were?
23 23 A Yeah. So -- you probably have it -- there
24 24 was seven or eight different studies that were
25 25 discussed at that meeting. And two of the
Page 215 Page 217

1 1 studies dealt with players, kind of, long-term
2 2 health. And one of them was a self -- one of
3 . 3 them was based on a player's self-reported
4 4 concussions, and it looked at, I think, the
5 5 change of his impact scores, baseline scores,
6 6 maybe for players who had multiple concussions
7 7 over time.
8 8 And then there was a second -- and that
9 9 was really kind of viewed as a -- people kind of
10 10 recognized the limitations of maybe inaccuracies
11 11 in a player's self-reported history. They
12 12 thought it was a necessary building block to use
13 13 for a second study that was proposed that looked
14 14 at a player's -- I believe it was more of a
15 15 prospective study, I believed -- oh, no, no, no.
16 16 It was, it was a study that actually looked at
17 17 his medical records, I think, and diagnosed
18 18 concussions.
19 19 And so then you looked at concussions that
20 20 were diagnosed, I think, over the term of, of, of
21 21 the player's career in our, in our database and
22 22 maybe looked at his impact scores from those
23 23 diagnosed ones and maybe the impact -- you know,
24 24 the cumulative -- if there's a cumulative decline
25 25 or an impact -- or cumulative affect from those

612.338.3376
Page 218 Page 220

1 impact scores over time. 1
2 And so I think where we ended up was the 2
3 union -- and I think that may have included Rob 3
4 Zamuner and their other player representatives 4
5 who were at that meeting were going to discuss 5
6 those studies with the players and go back to 6
7 their player representatives and continue 7
8 discussions on those studies and get feedback 8
9 from the player representatives. 9
10 Q Did any of those studies you just 10
11 described actually get done? 11
12 A They didn't. The union didn't agree to 12
13 them. 13
14 Q Okay. And who told you that? 14
15 A Who told me that? 15
16 Q Yup. 16
17 A I mean, they, I -- I, I just know. I'm on 17
18 the concussion subcommittee. They, they -- 18
19 Q Somebody must have said it. 19
20 A We agree on what happens or doesn't 20
21 happen, and the union didn't agree. They didn't 21
22 proceed. And then we -- that's how we moved 22
23 forward with the, kind of, changing -- how can we 23
24 move forward? And we formed our task group to 24
25 come up with other proposals. 25
Page 219 Page 221

1 Q All I was thinking about there was, do you 1
2 remember by name who at the PA said, "We're not 2
3 going to agree to those" or "can't agree with 3
4 them," whatever the phrasing was? 4
5 A Well, this was the May meeting. I kind of 5
6 remember, after this, we had a June meeting, I 6
7 think, in June 2012. And I think, at that June 7
8 meeting -- maybe the union said, again, "We're 8
9 going to go back and get player feedback," at 9
10 that June meeting. And then -- no, I don't have 10
11 a specific recollection. 11
12 Q You've heard of an outfit called the Taub 12
13 Institute at Columbia, haven't you? 13
14 A I have. I pronounce it differently, but I 14
15 have. 15
16 Q Taub? 16
17 A That's what I say. But maybe you're 17
18 right. 18
19 Q I only say that because my wife's charge 19
20 is this girl named Andie Taubenfeld. And they 20
21 say Taubenfeld, not Taubenfeld. 21
22 Anyway... 22
23 MR. KEYTE: It's a stretch. 23
24 MR. GRYGIEL: I guess. I guess. 24 MR. KEYTE: Can we -- are you moving into
25 A I don't know. 25 another document?

612.338.3376
Page 222 Page 224

1 MR. GRYGIEL: It's in the same sequence, 1
2 and then we can take that break. 2
3 MR. KEYTE: Okay. 3
4 MR. GRYGIEL: Yeah. I'm getting there 4

5 right along with you. 5
6 MR. KEYTE: I think Julie is ahead of us. 6
7 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 7
8 MR. GRYGIEL: It's a rare person who is 8
9 ahead of us. 9
10 A That's me. 10
11 Q And I did not mean intellectually, but 11
12 James knows what I meant. 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 223 Page 225

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 226 Page 228

1 1 We're going off the record.
2 2 (Recess taken.)
3 3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 2:40.
4 4 We're back on the record.
5 5 Q Let show you, Ms. Grand, what I'm marking
6 6 as Exhibit Number 21. And while you're looking
7 7 at it, I'm simply going to identify it for the
8 8 record. It begins with an e-mail dated
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 Did Dr. Echemendia ever tell you 22
23 personally he was frustrated that the National 23
24 Hockey League didn't push harder to do a retiree 24
25 study? 25
Page 227 Page 229

1 A No. 1
3 Q Has Dr. Meeuwisse ever said that? 3
4 A No. 4
5 Q Isn't it fair to say that Dr. Echemendia 5
6 gets paid money by the National Hockey League? 6
7 A Yes. 7
8 Q And doesn't Dr. Meeuwisse? 8
9 A Yes. 9
10 Q How much does Dr. Echemendia get paid, by 10
11 the way? 11 Q Following up a little bit on what we, you
12 A I don't know offhand. 12 testified to a moment ago concerning the CTE and
13 Q How much -- 13 the history of events, is there anything since
14 A But you deposed him. I imagine you could 14 2009 that's occurred in terms of knowledge about
15 have asked him. 15 CTE or events concerning CTE that you believe
16 Q I think we did. 16 have more compelled the necessity of doing a
17 Dr. Meeuwisse -- I forgot to ask him -- 17 study of retirees' long-term health?
18 how much does he get paid? 18 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
19 A I don't know offhand. 19 A Since 2009?
20 But you deposed him, too. You could have 20 Q Right.
21 asked him. 21 A That have compelled doing a study?
22 Q I should have. 22 Q Yeah. I mean, for example, if I may
23 MR. KEYTE: All right. Let's take a 23 interject, in 2011, in the summer, we had deaths
24 break. 24 of three players, Rick Rypien, Wade Belak, and
25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 2:26. 25 Derek Boogaard. And prior to that, we had

612.338.3376
Page 230 Page 232

1 Boogaard, and we had Martin, and we had Fleming. 1 on CTE, it's something that's diagnosed on --
2 Is there anything along those lines that 2 Q Port-mortem?
3 you think moves the needle towards the direction 3 A -- post-mortem.
4 of compelling the necessity of a long-term 4 But, you know, what, what, what can be
5 retiree health study? 5 looked at from our data, well, that's what we,
6 A Well, I mean, as I, as I've said, this has 6 that's, you know, precisely what we said. Let's
7 kind of been an evolution. And so, by May 2012, 7 pull together a task group. Let's see how
8 we're, we're in a meeting with the union, and 8 experts would address the issue, formulate the
9 we're -- we have several proposals on the table 9 question, see what information we have, and how
10 to discuss, you know, long-term -- long-term 10 they think it may make sense to try to answer
11 neurocognitive health, whether that's a study 11 those questions for...
12 using current players' data, a study on retired 12 And I think when we came together in, in
13 players. I think at that point, the proposals 13 November of 2013, the focus was, again, kind of
14 were using current players. Again, this kind of 14 more on NHL players. Like, we have this body of
15 evolved over time, and some proposals were 15 data going back from 1997 to 2013. Let's build
16 retired, some were current, and that kind of kept 16 off of that.
17 shifting. 17 Q The task groups did not restrict its
18 But there was definitely, you know, a 18 concern solely to CTE, correct?
19 growing interest over time. And as there were an 19 A I --
20 increasing number of players who were determined 20 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
21 to have CTE, that this is something we should 21 A I, I, I don't even know that it's fair to
22 continue to look at. And that the, the shared 22 say that CTE was within the scope of what they
23 view of the League, of the union. 23 were looking at. So, I think it was a much
24 As we kind of dived into the details and 24 broader description of maybe long-term
25 started formulating what would those proposals 25 neurocognitive health or some more general,
Page 231 Page 233

1 look like, then we started to run into some 1 general description.
2 questions, some issues. 2 Q I'm showing you what we've marked as
3 The May 2012 meeting -- the union had some 3 Exhibit Number 22.
4 questions, some issues: "Well, this may affect 4 (NHL/NHLPA Concussion
5 employability if you do these studies." 5 Subcommittee Meeting November 4,
6 But the questions didn't stop there. We 6 2013, 8:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.
7 continued to have them. And we -- you know, we, 7 Westin Diplomat - Ft.
8 we, we regrouped in June. We regrouped in, you 8 Lauderdale/Hollywood, FL
9 know, later November. And the concussion 9 Minutes, Bates-stamped
10 subcommittee, you know, decided, let's go ahead, 10 NHL0247818 through 826 was
11 as I said, and form this task group. Let's bring 11 marked as Exhibit 22 for
12 on these outside experts and see if they can look 12 identification, as of this
13 at our body of data and come up with a proposal 13 date.)
14 on how they would study this issue. 14 Q And you will see this is entitled
15 So, you know, I think there's still a lack 15 "NHL/NHLPA Concussion Subcommittee Meeting
16 of -- our, our advisors' view is that the science 16 November 4, 2013, Minutes," correct?
17 still isn't there yet, there's still no causal 17 A Yes.
18 connection, but let's, let's look at this issue. 18 Q And Ms. Grand, if you turn to the second
19 Q Isn't part of the reason for doing a study 19 page, at the very bottom, you will see there is
20 to determine if a causal connection is, in fact, 20 the establishment of a new task group, correct?
21 present, as opposed to merely an associational 21 A Yes.
22 one? 22 Q And this is the task group involving,
23 A Well, a causal connection on CTE, I don't 23 among others, Mr. McCrea and Mr. Iverson, about
24 think you're going to get that from our, our 24 which you testified previously, right?
25 study, necessarily. As I understand the science 25 A And Jeff Kutcher.

612.338.3376
Page 234 Page 236

1 Q Right. 1 A No, we have not.
2 And one of the things they're looking at 2 Q Has he given you any insight into what his
3 is a reliable, valid way to study long-term 3 research shows in terms of long-term effects of
4 consequences of trauma to the brain within 4 traumatic, mild traumatic brain injuries?
5 professional hockey, right? 5 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
6 A Yes. 6 A I think that, if I recall, Bill and Ruben
7 Q So, that would entail a number of 7 and I met with him, and he described for us kind
8 potential neurodegenerative diseases, not just 8 of the structure of his program and how he was
9 CTE, to your understanding, right? 9 approaching it with his grant.
10 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 10 I don't recall him explaining to us, kind
11 A This -- does -- this is, this is 11 of, findings or conclusions, just more
12 nonspecific. I don't -- again, I don't know -- I 12 methodology.
13 don't think this would encompass the CTE that 13 Q So, whether or not he's found any
14 you're saying, and it would be to this task group 14 long-term effects in any causal connections
15 to discuss looking at ways to study long-term 15 between long-term effects and causes, you haven't
16 consequences to the brain. 16 seen any?
17 Q And specifically with respect to the 17 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection. Foundation.
18 reference that the task group will develop a 18 A I do not recall him addressing that.
19 proposal setting forth the main questions it 19 Q You know who Terry Kane is, don't you?
20 would like answered and the subquestions it would 20 A I do.
21 address -- and it goes on to talk about lifestyle 21 Q And what was Terry Kane's role with
22 issues -- have you seen that particular proposal? 22 respect to the National Hockey League?
23 A No. As I said, the proposals have not 23 A Well, that changed at different points in
24 been formulated yet. 24 time. So, at one point, he was one of our team's
25 Q And you haven't seen any drafts of the 25 athletic trainers. He was the Calvary Flame's
Page 235 Page 237

1 main questions that this task group would like to 1 trainer. And then at some point, after maybe
2 see answered? 2 that relationship ended, he -- we, I think,
3 A No. The task group has not, has not done 3 retained him to help us do kind of an audit of
4 that yet, no. 4 some of our -- I think we called it our SIM data,
5 Q Do you know who David Cifu, C-I-F-U, is, 5 which was our --
6 or Cifu? 6 Q Sports Injury Management system?
7 A Cifu. 7 A Right. Which was kind of our injury
8 Q Cifu? 8 surveillance system data.
9 A Well, that's how I pronounce it. Yes. 9 Q And he worked with Dr. Meeuwisse, didn't
10 Q You may be right, yeah. 10 he?
11 Have you ever spoken with him? 11 A Well -- so, he -- I mean, maybe they
12 A Yes. 12 worked together on that project somewhat. I
13 Q About what? 13 mean, Dr. Meeuwisse is an epidemiologist, and I
14 A Do you need me to wait? 14 think Terry helped to audit the data so it could
15 Q No, go ahead. 15 be analyzed by Dr. Meeuwisse.
16 A About what. About the program that he 16 Q Do you remember a database that
17 runs for the Department of Defense, maybe. 17 Dr. Meeuwisse kept on a regular basis charting
18 There's a -- he's a physiatrist -- is -- I 18 injuries in the National Hockey League?
19 think -- I believe, and he's working on, kind of, 19 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad.
20 a, a -- he has a grant to study long-term 20 A Can you repeat your question?
21 cognitive health on maybe veterans, if I'm kind 21 MR. GRYGIEL: Sure.
22 of characterizing that -- 22 And you're right. I'll withdraw the
23 Q Have you tasked him with doing anything 23 question.
24 specific in connection with the Concussion 24 Q Apart from Dr. Meeuwisse's work for the
25 Working Group's activities? 25 Concussion Working Group in the NHL, do you

612.338.3376
Page 238 Page 240

1 remember that he independently had a website that 1 MR. KEYTE: You already have it.
2 dealt with injuries in the National Hockey 2 Q Apart from the litigation, if one of your
3 League? 3 friends were to call you up and say, "Julie, I'd
4 A That sounds vaguely familiar. 4 really like to know -- one of my kids is writing
5 Q And do you remember that Commissioner 5 a paper -- how many concussions you've got this
6 Bettman, at one point, did not like what he saw 6 year," you wouldn't be at liberty to divulge
7 on that website? 7 that, would you?
8 A I remember that we had some concerns that 8 A We, we don't generally do that. I'm happy
9 there -- the data on the website wasn't accurate. 9 to describe why, but...
10 Q And Commissioner Bettman was upset because 10 Q I think I've seen the documents about why.
11 he thought it made the game, the NHL game look 11 A Really? I didn't know that we had
12 unsafe, when the statistics weren't actually 12 documents that described why, but okay.
13 accurately represented? 13 Q Oh, there are plenty and --
14 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 14 A Okay.
15 A Yeah, I think I remember having concerns 15 Q In any event, I'm going to show you what
16 that we didn't want misinformation being out 16 I'm marking as Exhibit 23.
17 there, you know -- statistics that were 17 (E-mail from Dave Dryden to
18 inaccurate that made the game -- that looked, 18 Julie Spar-Grand and Terry Kane,
19 that made it look like there were more injuries 19 Bates-stamped NHL2335906 through
20 happening than there were. Sure. 20 907 was marked as Exhibit 23 for
21 Q Now, at the time, the National Hockey 21 identification, as of this
22 League, say back in the year 2001, did not 22 date.)
23 publicly distribute its concussion data, correct? 23 Q And you'll see that this is a couple-page
24 A I think that our club -- our clubs 24 document. It bears the name Winne Meeuwisse at
25 probably distributed what we would call PR 25 the top, dated February 7, 2001. And you'll see
Page 239 Page 241

1 reports. But, right, the source of that is 1 the second page is an e-mail from Dr. Meeuwisse
2 probably to be discussed. 2 to Commissioner Bettman, copying you, Mr. Daly,
3 Q I think I know what you mean by that. 3 and Terry Kane, right?
4 A And at a League level, it was not our 4 A Wait, I'm sorry. So, the first --
5 practice to distribute or disseminate our 5 MR. KEYTE: Go ahead and read it. It's
6 concussion information. 6 not that long.
7 Q And apart from the commission's statements 7 A Okay.
8 about percentages and trends, that's still the 8 Q That's your handwriting at the bottom of
9 League's policy today and has been, correct? 9 the first page, isn't it?
10 A It's our general approach, correct. 10 A It is.
11 Q The idea is to keep the concussion 11 Q And when you use the equal sign with a
12 information to those who understand how to put it 12 slash through it, that means "not," correct?
13 in context, so as not to create misleading or 13 A "Is not."
14 false impressions? 14 Q Right. So the very --
15 A No, I don't know that I would describe it 15 A Well, it does, like, here. I mean...
16 that way. 16 Q Well, the very first thing, the very first
17 Do you want me to -- 17 entry says, "GBB," equal sign, slash through,
18 Q No. In any event, the League does not 18 "happy," which means, Gary Bruce Bettman is not
19 give out -- if I called up today and said, 19 happy, correct?
20 "Julie, I'd like to know how many concussions 20 A I didn't know Bruce was his middle name.
21 there are in the National Hockey League as of X 21 But I would say GBB is not happy, yes.
22 date," you would say, "You're not getting them 22 Q Underneath that it says, "Raised
23 from me"? 23 eyebrows."
24 A If you were to, in particular, call? 24 Whose eyebrows were raised?
25 Q Fair point. 25 A I don't, I don't know.

612.338.3376
Page 242 Page 244

1 Q Commissioner Bettman's? 1 information, quote, in the right light, close
2 A I guess. 2 quote.
3 Q That stands to reason, doesn't it? 3 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
4 A Maybe. 4 A I can read the whole thing, if you'd like.
5 Q Underneath that it says, "Shows injuries 5 Let's see.
6 up. Makes our game look not safe," correct? 6 So, it provides a summary of the
7 A That, that's what it says. 7 statistics released through the NHL PR
8 Q So, what we have here is Commissioner 8 department.
9 Bettman saying, "Hey, who is this guy Meeuwisse, 9 Q So, that's what the inaccuracy was, was
10 who works with the Flames, making my League look 10 his website's reflection of what the PR
11 bad," and he wanted you to deal with it, correct? 11 department was putting out?
12 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 12 A I mean, our PR stats aren't, aren't
13 A So, at the time, I mean, I even -- I have 13 validated by -- they're coming from the PR folks.
14 to put this in context. I don't even remember. 14 They're not based on medical records. They're
15 Did Winne work with the Flames at the time? Did 15 not coming from your doctors. They're not coming
16 he work -- oh, head physician for the Flames. 16 from your trainers. You know, what's the level
17 I think he was also -- he was on our 17 of accuracy of them? And so --
18 injury committees and working with us on our 18 Q For example, some of them say upper body
19 injury committees. And so, he did have special 19 injury when it means concussion?
20 access to our data. And I think he knew that the 20 A Well, that's -- I mean, that's a different
21 injury information that he was using on his 21 issue, and that's for competitive reasons, that,
22 website wasn't accurate. And so, that was really 22 you know, our clubs have a concern with
23 the nature of the conversation that we had with 23 identifying a specific body part where a player
24 him and the concerns that we had with him. 24 has an injury, because they feel that other teams
25 Q So, it was your understanding that 25 may target that player's head if the team knows
Page 243 Page 245

1 Dr. Meeuwisse, who was then working with the 1 he has a concussion, so -- but...
2 League, was knowingly putting out incorrect 2 Q Dr. Meeuwisse ever follow up with you and
3 information? 3 say, "Gee whiz, Julie, I really got the
4 A You know what, I don't -- 4 commissioner made at me. I won't do that again"?
5 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. You 5 A I don't, I don't -- I'm sorry, I don't
6 have his testimony on this. 6 remember how this resolved.
7 A I don't know if he had sat and compared 7 Q Do you remember Dr. Meeuwisse telling you
8 and audited it and -- but I think he understood 8 that he felt very chagrined that the commissioner
9 the basis for our concern after we talked to him. 9 had been upset with him based on his reporting of
10 Q And you say, "Spoke with WM." 10 injury statistics?
11 Did you speak with Dr. Meeuwisse alone or 11 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. Calls
12 with someone else? 12 for speculation.
13 A Oh, I have -- my memory's not that good. 13 A I don't. But I do know that Dr. Meeuwisse
14 Q "Conveyed the above" it reads, correct? 14 takes injury statistics very seriously and the
15 A That is what it says. 15 importance of them being accurate very seriously,
16 Q "He understood and will talk to TK, who 16 so...
17 does the weekly reports." 17 Q Now, with respect to Terry Kane, you're
18 That's Terry Kane, isn't it? 18 aware that at some point he was working with the
19 A Yes. 19 League compiling statistics for purposes of the
20 Q And the second page of this e-mail chain 20 Concussion Working Group's work?
21 is a letter from Dr. Meeuwisse -- an e-mail 21 A Not -- I mean, not -- you're saying
22 letter to Commissioner Bettman, correct? 22 "Concussion Working Group." I don't know, I
23 A Winne Meeuwisse to Gary Bettman, uh-huh. 23 don't think that's the right group.
24 Q And it's fair to say here he's saying that 24 Q Maybe it was the Injury Analysis Panel. I
25 he will be more careful in the future to put the 25 think that's what it was.

612.338.3376
Page 246 Page 248

1 A It was probably some other group. Maybe, 1
2 maybe, maybe the Injury Analysis Panel. 2
3 Q I think that's what it was. 3
4 And Mr. Kane was let go. 4
5 Do you remember that? 5
6 A I think maybe 2004? I can't remember the 6
7 timing, but... 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 247 Page 249

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 250 Page 252

2 2 Q Chip Burke's group?
3 3 A So, are you talking about the
4 4 neuropsychological testing program? Are you
5 5 talking about the concussion program in
6 6 particular?
7 7 Q I'm talking about the same Chip work was
8 8 doing starting in 1997, call it what you will.
10 10 A So, there was, as I referred to before,
11 11 there was a frustration amongst many of us who
12 12 were working on the analysis of the data and the
13 13 merger of the data to try to kind of see through
14 14 the culmination of that.
15 15 But as I referred to before -- and what
16 Q You know who Darren Dreger is, don't you? 16 I'm talking about in talking really shorthand,
17 A I do. 17 you kind of had different. You had a -- the, the
18 Q He is a sports writer? 18 concussion program really started, as I said, as
19 A He is. 19 a neuropsychological testing program, right? So,
20 Q Did you ever speak with Darren Dreger 20 you have your baseline, your post-injury data.
21 about Terry Kane? 21 You also had your physician report forms, and you
22 A I don't recall. 22 had your SIM injury data.
23 Q Did Terry Kane sue the League as a result 23 And the question is, kind of, how do you
24 of cessation of his duties, to put it generally? 24 put it altogether and see what it says? And
25 A Not that anyone ever told me about. 25 that, that was a very complicated process to put
Page 251 Page 253

1 Q Now, when you came into the League in 1 it altogether, because each of the independent
2 1999, as we discussed, the concussion program was 2 sources were kind of audited independently.
3 already under way, right? 3 The neuropsychological testing program --
4 A Correct. 4 the question was, from that program, is
5 Q And there were delays, in particular, 5 neuropsychological testing a useful tool for our
6 concerning the merge of data, physician data and 6 clubs to use in the management of concussion and
7 trainer-collected data, correct? 7 in helping to figure out if players are ready to
8 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 8 return to play, right? And that was kind of the
9 A I don't think that, in '99 -- I don't know 9 whole purpose of the neuropsychological testing
10 if the topic of merger was really on the table in 10 program.
11 '99. Or maybe it was starting to be a 11 And it started out as a research program,
12 conversation in '99, maybe around '99, 2000, 12 not a clinical program. And pretty early on,
13 2001, 2002. I'm not sure it was fully on the 13 people started to see the value of the
14 table at the time I arrived. I don't know. 14 neuropsychological testing and started to use it
15 Q You certainly recall discussing with 15 for clinical purposes. But it wasn't validated
16 Commissioner Bettman the progress the group had 16 through the results of the research in, like,
17 made as of 2006, for example, both good and for 17 absolute terms for a long time. But people
18 bad? 18 really had a very good understanding -- and it
19 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad. 19 was reported back to our teams, to the players,
20 A I'm sorry, what, what group and what 20 to our trainers, to the union, and we were all
21 progress exactly? 21 collectively doing this on an annual basis, every
22 Q Chip Burke's group. Remember tell -- 22 year of the program, the results that we were
23 MR. GRYGIEL: Object -- strike that. 23 seeing, and the importance of using both
24 Q Remember telling Commissioner Bettman that 24 neuropsychological testing and player symptom
25 the group hasn't accomplished very much? 25 reporting, because you didn't always have an

612.338.3376
Page 254 Page 256

1 exact fit between the two in trying to figure out 1
2 when a player's ready to go back to play. 2
3 So, sometimes would you have a player who 3
4 still had symptoms, but his neuropsych testing 4
5 would be okay. And sometimes you would have a 5
6 player whose neuropsych testing -- well, the 6
7 opposite. And so, it wasn't always an exact 7
8 match. 8
9 So, long story short -- 9
10 Q Too late. 10
11 A -- I'm getting back to your, I'm getting 11
12 back to your question. 12
13 So, the question, you know, what have we 13
14 accomplished, was a very narrow point on the 14
15 neuropsychological testing, and is it a useful 15
16 tool? 16
17 There was, as you know, from the Injury 17
18 Analysis Panel, you know, 15 other initiatives 18
19 that we're doing in terms of the environment and 19
20 the equipment and the rules and education and 20
21 videos and a gazillion other things that we're 21
22 doing to address concussions from a global 22
23 perspective. 23
24 But from a strictly kind of what we called 24
25 it, the testing program, which was very narrow to 25
Page 255 Page 257

1 begin with, that was, that was, that was a 1
2 frustrating period for those of us who were 2
3 involved in terms of just getting the ultimate 3
4 validation of, of that study. And that is what I 4
5 was referring to. 5
6 So, that was long-winded, but necessary. 6
7 Much shorter than, actually, the process really 7
8 took for those of us involved. 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 258 Page 260

1 1 A Well, the group was led by -- the
2 2 neuropsych testing program was led by Mark Lovell
3 3 and Chip Burke. So, Mark Lovell is a
4 4 neuropsychologist.
5 5 Q But Chip Burke wasn't, was he?
6 6 A But Chip Burke wasn't leading the
7 7 concussion program.
8 8 Mark Lovell was leading the neuropsych
9 Q Well, at the same time, you knew Dr. Burke 9 testing program. And Chip Burke, on behalf of
10 was an orthopedic surgeon, right? 10 the Team Physician Society, was leading the head
11 A Yes. 11 injury project, because our team -- Chip Burke
12 Q And you knew he had a very busy clinical 12 was a leader on behalf of the team physicians in
13 practice of his own? 13 terms of recognizing that concussions were an
14 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 14 increasing problem in, in our league, in our
15 A I don't know Dr. Burke's schedule. 15 sport, and pulling together the support of the
16 Q Do you remember Dr. Burke telling you that 16 League, of the union, and getting this head
17 it's difficult for him to schedule meetings when 17 injury project formed and the neuropsych testing
18 he's seeing 35 to 40 patients a day? 18 project formed, because our team physicians are
19 A We work with so many of our doctors and 19 the ones, who are actually the ones who interface
20 our trainers, and we work around their schedules. 20 with our players in terms of diagnosing,
21 And so, that's, that's really not been an 21 treating, managing, and making return-to-play
22 impediment to getting feedback and input from our 22 decisions of our players who have concussions.
23 physicians. 23 Q You mentioned Mark Lovell.
24 Q Did you ever ask anybody, confidentially 24 Did Mark Lovell ever complain to you that
25 or otherwise, how was it that the Concussion 25 he was being given an awful lot of work without
Page 259 Page 261

1 Working Group at the time was being led by 1 being compensated for it, and that was one of the
2 Dr. Burke, who was a orthopedic surgeon and not a 2 reasons for the delay you described earlier?
3 brain specialist? 3 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
4 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 4 A I don't recall that. That doesn't mean it
5 A So, our -- 5 didn't happen.
6 Q I just asked -- I'm sorry, but I asked, 6 Q You mentioned neuropsych testing having
7 did you ever ask anybody that question? 7 clinical value.
8 A Anybody? 8 When you say "clinical," you mean in terms
9 Q Yes. 9 of practical application for, for example,
10 MR. KEYTE: And it's also vague as to 10 return-to-play decisions?
11 "brain specialist." 11 A Uh-huh.
12 A Right. So, I mean, in that context, can I 12 Q Am I understanding you correctly?
13 answer the question? 13 There is nothing tricky about this. I'm
14 Q Well, if you can answer my question -- 14 trying to make sure I know what you're saying.
15 MR. KEYTE: No. You answer the question. 15 A Yeah.
16 I just noted my objection. 16 Q So when a player, for example, under the
17 A Did I ask anybody? 17 protocol today -- let's take Dennis Wideman.
18 Q Uh-huh. 18 You're familiar with that situation?
19 A I don't know who -- I don't know how to 19 A Well, do you want to expand on "that
20 answer the question. 20 situation"?
21 Q Did you ever discuss with Dr. Echemendia, 21 Q Sure. Dennis Wideman, as you know, was
22 "You know what, originally the group was led by 22 hit in the corner this year, came to his feet,
23 an orthopedic surgeon, and it should have been 23 intersected with a linesman.
24 led by a neuropsychologist"? Ever use words like 24 There was a grievance hearing. Then there
25 that? 25 was another hearing. Commissioner Bettman

612.338.3376
Page 262 Page 264

1 imposed a penalty of 20 games. And it went to an 1 able to, he will come and review the SCAT, and he
2 independent arbitrator, pursuant to the CBA, and 2 will then interface with the player and do the,
3 reduced to ten games. 3 do the, make the diagnosis.
4 Now it's the subject of litigation. 4 Q The SCAT is the sports concussion
5 That rings a bell, doesn't it? 5 assessment tool?
6 A Yes. 6 A Correct. And it's the SCAT3.
7 Q And what I'm asking you today, if someone 7 Q It's the SCAT3.
8 like Dennis Wideman comes to the bench and he 8 And that is the NHL's version of the SCAT,
9 gets evaluated at the bench, which he didn't, but 9 correct?
10 what's the neuropsych component of that rink-side 10 A Correct.
11 evaluation? Can you describe to me what that is? 11 Q It was preceded by the SCAT2, correct?
12 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 12 A Correct.
13 A So, I can't answer that question, because 13 Q Which was also specifically developed for
14 your question doesn't actually make sense. 14 use with NHL players on the bench for ring-side
15 Q Help me with it, because it's something 15 evaluation, correct?
16 I'm really curious about. 16 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
17 You said that neuropsych testing is 17 A On the bench is --
18 value-added for purposes of the return-to-play 18 Q Or rink-side --
19 decision, correct? 19 A Not --
20 A Correct. 20 Q -- in the playing environment, whatever.
21 Q And when a player comes to the bench and 21 A Well, the "whatever" matters.
22 shows a visible sign of concussion, under the 22 Q Yeah, I know it does. What I'm trying to
23 current protocol, he's supposed to be evaluated, 23 do is, before someone --
24 under the current protocol, in the quiet room, 24 A Well, it's changed over time --
25 correct? 25 Q Right.
Page 263 Page 265

1 A Hang on. Can you repeat that sentence? 1 A -- where the evaluation should occur. So,
2 MR. GRYGIEL: Read that back, Amanda? 2 I can't answer where the evaluation should occur
3 (Record read.) 3 unless we talk about specific points in time.
4 A Are we talking generally or about Dennis 4 I'm not sure if that's what you're getting
5 Wideman? 5 at.
6 Q Well, say generally, under today's 6 Q Well, let me ask you this question.
7 standard. 7 A Okay.
8 A So, if a player shows a visible sign of 8 Q Is the SCAT2 the -- and SCAT3 the
9 concussion, yes, he's supposed to be removed for 9 neuropsych component of the elevation that is
10 evaluation and evaluated in a distraction-free 10 done immediately after the concussive or
11 environment. 11 suspected concussive event?
12 Q And that distraction-free environment 12 A So, the SCAT has within it several
13 examination is supposed to be by the team doctor 13 components. It has a player symptom report form.
14 today, not the trainer, right? 14 It has a cognitive assessment. It has a balance
15 A That is, the protocol provides that the -- 15 assessment. It has a -- it has -- balance
16 ideally, the player would be evaluated by the 16 assessment. It's not the neuropsych testing, if
17 team doctor and the trainer together, but the 17 that's what you're referring to.
18 protocol allows for the trainer to do the 18 Q I'm simply asking a question.
19 evaluation as, but the player -- but the 19 A Okay.
20 physician has to make a diagnosis of concussion. 20 Q You're the expert. You --
21 And often what happens is the trainer will 21 A I'm not the expert. I'm not a physician.
22 be the one who will do the evaluation, maybe in 22 I'm not the expert.
23 the doctor's presence -- sometimes the doctor may 23 You're better off with these questions
24 not be able to be present, but the doctor then 24 with the physicians. Or if you were to put the
25 will come -- he's usually there. But if he's not 25 form in front of me, I could go through it with

612.338.3376
Page 266 Page 268

1 you. 1 sport was disseminated in, like, February of
2 But there's a cognitive part. There's a 2 2013. So it was published then.
3 balance part. There's a symptom report part. 3 And then our next, next protocol, which we
4 There's a describe -- describe the event to me. 4 issued in, you know, the following season,
5 There's many different components to it. 5 incorporated that. So, players who are diagnosed
6 Q But for purposes of the evaluation 6 with a concussion shall not be returned in, in
7 immediately after a player is suspected of having 7 the same game.
8 suffered a concussion, is the SCAT the sum total 8 Q That's players who are diagnosed, as
9 of the neuropsych part of the evaluation? 9 opposed to merely suspected, correct?
10 A So, neuropsych is the, is the wrong word 10 A Players who are suspected of concussion,
11 to use. 11 that's, that's, that's the SCAT. So players who
12 Q What is the right word? 12 are suspected of concussion by a visible sign
13 A It's our standardized evaluation tool. 13 or --
14 That's the term I would use. 14 Q Reported symptom?
15 Again, I'm not, I'm not the doctor here, 15 A -- symptom reporting or something else,
16 so you should really ask the doctors. I don't 16 are, under the protocol, removed for an
17 think neuropsych is the right word to use. 17 evaluation, go to the distraction-free
18 Q What's troubling me is, I've read numerous 18 environment, get evaluated using the standardized
19 places -- and I'm sure you have. It's all part 19 assessment tool, use the SCAT, plus any other
20 of documents you've been involved in -- it says 20 tools the physician wants to add to it, and then
21 neuropsych is value-added for purposes of the 21 there's no return to -- if you're diagnosed with
22 return-to-play decision. 22 a concussion, there's no return to play same day,
23 You've seen -- 23 as of 2012.
24 A Neuropsych is -- correct, uh-huh. 24 Q Right. You're aware that the consensus
25 Q And the return-to-play decision can be 25 statement in 2012 deals with the number of policy
Page 267 Page 269

1 made days after a concussive event, when the 1 issues concerning concussion and the state of
2 player is held out of play, or in the same game, 2 knowledge, right? You've read it?
3 and are supposed to be uncommon occurrences, 3 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
4 correct? 4 Q You've read the consensus statement of
5 A What time -- 5 2012, right?
6 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Yeah, foundation, 6 A I have.
7 in terms time frame. 7 Q And do you remember telling Mr. Daly that
8 Q Say 20 -- say today. 8 it prohibits same-game return to play and that
9 A Well -- okay. So, I mean, maybe you're 9 the NHL does not prohibit same-game return to
10 asking about return to play in the same game? 10 play?
11 Q Yeah. 11 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
12 A Okay. So, that -- that's a concept that's 12 A Maybe it came out before we had changed
13 changed over time, and it's changed over time 13 our policy. It probably was published in -- I
14 based on the medical consensus in, in the 14 don't remember that specific interaction.
15 industry and the scientific literature in that, 15 Q Has the Board of Governors ever received
16 and the concussion in sport consensus. 16 a --
17 And so, I think in 2012, the concussion in 17 A I find -- okay. I'm happy to be refreshed
18 sport consensus recommended -- or provided that 18 on that, because we do prohibit same-day return
19 players should not -- players who are diagnosed 19 to play.
20 with a concussion should not return same day of 20 Q For players diagnosed with a concussion?
21 concussion. 21 A Yes, that's what the policy says.
22 And then our -- the NHL's protocol for -- 22 Q Right. But you do not prohibit same-game
23 you know, the next season, as soon as we changed 23 return to play for players suspected of having a
24 it for the next season -- and that was -- the 24 concussion who are then cleared, correct?
25 2012 SCAT -- I'm sorry, the 2012 concussion in 25 MR. KEYTE: If they don't have a --

612.338.3376
Page 270 Page 272

1 A Neither does the concussion in sport 1 the protocol, the concussion protocol, that
2 statement. 2 involves return to play.
3 Q Are you sure about that? 3 The protocol was first drafted in 2010,
4 A Yes. 4 correct?
5 Q Okay. Did you read the first two 5 MR. KEYTE: Let me object on foundation
6 concussion statements, what are called the 6 grounds.
7 agreement statements, 2001 and 2004? 7 A So, 2010 was the first time that we -- it
8 A Yes. 8 was a compilation, the 2010 protocol, of -- we
9 Q Have you ever compared the NHL's same-game 9 really had protocols going back to 1997, since
10 return-to-play policy against those consensus -- 10 on, the beginning of the program. But in 2010,
11 A Yes. 11 we formalized, kind of, our, our practices into,
12 Q -- against those agreement statements? 12 kind of, a more formal document that we
13 A Yes. And I've discussed them with our 13 distributed to everyone.
14 experts. 14 Q As you say, it went back, in its origins,
15 Q And is it your understanding that both of 15 to 1997, right?
16 those agreement statements also permit same-game 16 A Uh-huh.
17 return to play for someone merely suspected but 17 Q Can you tell me why it took so long, from
18 not diagnosed of a concussion? 18 1997 to 2010, to finally put together this formal
19 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Lacks foundation. 19 document for distribution and following by clubs
20 A It is based on my discussions with our 20 and athletic trainers and doctors?
21 experts who were involved in the drafting of 21 A There --
22 those consensus statements and agreement 22 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
23 statements. 23 Argumentative.
24 Q Have you ever presented to the Board of 24 A There were documents that were distributed
25 Governors on how the NHL's concussion protocol, 25 throughout the term of the program.
Page 271 Page 273

1 in particular return-to-play policies, match up 1 Q For example, the frequently asked
2 to these consensus statements and agreement 2 questions and the concussions, did you know
3 statements? 3 documents?
4 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad. 4 MR. KEYTE: I'm sorry, objection. Will
5 A I may have mentioned it. 5 you let her, please, finish her answer? Because
6 Q Do you remember any questions you got from 6 I don't think she finished her answer.
7 the Board of Governors about whether or not the 7 A Are you asking me about --
8 League's policy was consistent with what these 8 MR. KEYTE: That's a different topic.
9 consensus statements purported to say? 9 A Are you asking about information
10 A I do not remember questions. 10 distributed to players in the information in
11 MR. GRYGIEL: Give me just one minute. 11 warnings perspective, or are you asking about
12 MR. KEYTE: Do you want to take five? 12 protocols on how event baseline testing should be
13 MR. GRYGIEL: Yeah, because I want to find 13 administered?
14 a document. 14 Q I was asking about whatever documents you
15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 3:28. 15 said were administered previous to the concussion
16 We're off the record. 16 protocol.
17 (Recess taken.) 17 A Do you want me to review with you all the
18 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 3:39. 18 documents that were distributed --
19 We're back on the record. 19 Q I'm willing to take --
20 Q We were discussing this question of return 20 A -- since 1997?
21 to play a moment ago, and I'm not sure I still 21 Q I think I know what they are, because you
22 have asked the right question about the 22 put them in your insurance renewal presentation
23 components that go into the decision for return 23 in 2013, and you did a comprehensive list of
24 to play. 24 them.
25 What I would like to do now is talk about 25 So, what I'm interested in is simply,

612.338.3376
Page 274 Page 276

1 prior to 2001, there was no comprehensive 1 program provided for a player to have -- a player
2 document entitled "Concussion Protocol," correct? 2 who's diagnosed for a concussion, for him to have
3 A I, I'm not going to agree with that 3 his neuropsychological testing -- you have to
4 statement. There, there was documents that were 4 look at the documents, but there was, like, three
5 distributed on a frequent basis from the start of 5 set points. It's like 24 to 48 hours after the
6 the program that described the nature of the 6 concussion, and then it was five to seven days
7 neuropsychological testing and when it should 7 after the concussion, and then it was, like, 30
8 occur and how it should occur and that players 8 days after the concussion.
9 shouldn't -- when the baseline testing should 9 Because initially, it was just, like,
10 occur and that players shouldn't be returned to 10 let's collect data, when the program very first
11 play until they are symptom-free and they are 11 started out, right? It didn't start out as a
12 back at their neurocognitive baseline. 12 clinical program. It started out as a research
13 And so, that's, that's the, that was the 13 program.
14 testing program. And so, that's back from 1997. 14 And then fairly early on, maybe one year
15 And that's really an essential part of the 15 in, two years in, there was enough information
16 program that continued through. 16 that was collected that it was -- people were
17 What we issued in 2010 was really that 17 comfortable that -- people started, I think,
18 with, with kind of some more language that 18 using that information for clinical purposes and
19 reflected the current science. 19 making more return-to-play decisions based on the
20 Q When was the first written document that 20 neuropsych testing program.
21 went to clubs that dealt with return-to-play 21 The question that you're asking is, is a
22 protocol? 22 good question. And there was a -- basically for
23 A That a player shouldn't return to play 23 players who were diagnosed with a concussion and
24 until he is symptom-free and back at his 24 returned to same game, there was a, I guess I
25 neurocognitive baseline? It was probably in '97, 25 would say, common understanding with those who
Page 275 Page 277

1 '98, '98 -- back when the program began. That's 1 are administering the program from a League
2 what the program was. 2 level, a union level, a club level, that you just
3 And so, whether it was -- I can't tell 3 can't have -- you can't return them to the same
4 you -- I wasn't there at the time, and so I can't 4 game if you're going to be administering
5 speak to if that information was communicated to 5 neuropsych testing before you do that, so that
6 the doctors in writing or a combination of in 6 was not a part of the program.
7 writing, through the written authorizations, 7 At some point, we had discussions about
8 through every year there was presentations to the 8 those players and did it make sense to -- even
9 doctors at their Team Physicians Society 9 though, after much discussion -- and the union
10 meetings, the program was discussed. There was 10 still, at this point, was saying it's still
11 multiple avenues through which the basic 11 important to allow same-day return to play for
12 components of the neuropsychological testing 12 these players, but there was a discussion that --
13 program were discussed with the club medical 13 because people were concerned that if you
14 staff who were administering it. And that the 14 prohibited same-game return to play, that players
15 union was discussing with the players and that 15 would stop prohibiting, would stop reporting
16 the League was discussing with the union. 16 their symptoms, and you would end with up a
17 And that was the -- that was the nature of 17 situation where you would actually end up with
18 the program. 18 less players who are diagnosed with concussion.
19 Q How could you return to play in the same 19 But -- so, there was a discussion that, if
20 game under any of these protocols when, as you 20 you have those players who are diagnosed and
21 said, you had to take another neuropsych test? 21 allowed to return same game, that they should
22 A Right. So -- 22 still have post-game neuropsych testing.
23 Q That takes a while, right? 23 Q So the neuropsych testing wasn't part of
24 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 24 any of the protocols that would take place during
25 A So, the -- having a -- so, the original 25 the game that would allow them to return to the

612.338.3376
Page 278 Page 280

1 same game? 1 kind of carefully analyzed the data, and -- that
2 A That's correct. But there were other, I 2 we had.
3 would say, components -- and you'd have to talk 3 We -- I don't know if you're familiar with
4 to our medical practitioners -- of -- if you look 4 our -- what we call our denominator project.
5 under our -- you know, of ways that our medical 5 Okay.
6 practitioners were assessing if they felt a 6 Q And there's the numerator project.
7 player was returned to his neurocognitive 7 A There's the numerator project. So...
8 baseline. 8 Q All too familiar.
9 Q Now, you mentioned earlier that some 9 A Well, these were really important studies,
10 players report symptoms and they have normal 10 actually, that we did to figure out how to
11 neuropsych testing, correct? They appear to be 11 approach the protocol in our game.
12 back at baseline was -- 12 And with our, with our denominator
13 A Correct. 13 project -- and we really looked at how often are
14 Q And you said -- and you've said it goes 14 the visible signs of concussion occurring in our
15 the other way. Some people are at baseline but 15 game. We looked over a two-year period. We
16 still report symptoms. 16 logged the incidents, irrespective of concussion
17 A Some people are at baseline but still 17 occurring, and married it with our concussion
18 report symptoms, yes. 18 data.
19 Q And you've certainly seen lots of 19 And then, and then, you know, we looked at
20 documents -- we looked at one earlier -- that 20 how predictive are the signs of concussion. And
21 makes the point of emphasis, concussions are an 21 several of the signs actually slow to get up and
22 evolving injury, correct? 22 clutching the head are -- happen with such
23 A Concussions could be an evolving injury. 23 frequency outside of the incidents of concussion
24 That's the education that we collectively 24 that they're not very predictive of a concussive
25 provided the League and the union, to the players 25 event given the frequency with which they a
Page 279 Page 281

1 and the clubs. 1 occur.
2 Q And sometimes symptoms don't appear for 24 2 So, you know, if you kind of pulled a
3 to 48 hours after the injury that produces the 3 player every time you had those signs, it would
4 ultimate concussion, correct? 4 be -- they're not very sensitive or specific to
5 A That is what science has shown. 5 concussion, I think is the way that our
6 Q And so, you have asked the question, 6 practitioners describe it.
7 haven't you, whether same-game return to play 7 Q So, what you're saying is, there are
8 makes any sense at all where a player has a 8 visible signs that are more predictive of a real
9 visible sign of a concussion? 9 problem than others?
10 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Just foundation as 10 A That may be more predictive of a real
11 to timeframe. 11 problem, but --
12 A So, I've asked the question if, if 12 Q Are you aware of any peer-reviewed
13 same-game return to play makes sense. 13 articles that suggest that?
14 But in the context of -- I guess where 14 A There are public -- there are -- I think
15 I'll push back a little bit is in what you 15 they're into the peer-review process right now.
16 characterize as visible signs, because our 16 Q You haven't read any published articles
17 visible signs are of possible concussion. And 17 that have been subject to peer review that say,
18 many of the visible signs are, are, are not 18 this player who is slow to get up is more likely
19 actually specific to concussion and are not that 19 to have a concussion than this following player
20 predictive of a concussion. 20 who is slow to get up in this circumstance? It
21 And so, some are better predictors and 21 differentiates the two.
22 some are -- you know, players are, to -- to give 22 A I'm sorry, can you repeat your question,
23 you an example, are often slow to get up for 23 please?
24 many, many reasons, or clutching -- clutch their 24 Q Sure. You haven't seen any peer-reviewed
25 head following a hit for many reasons. We've 25 studies that show which, for example, visible

612.338.3376
Page 282 Page 284

1 signs are more likely to be predictive of a real 1
2 concussion than those that are not? 2
3 MR. KEYTE: For NHL hockey? 3
4 MR. GRYGIEL: Yeah. For any hockey, for 4
5 that matter, because I haven't seen any. 5
6 A Oh, and we have our, our data. 6
7 Q What I'm asking you, have you seen any 7
8 peer-reviewed journal articles that show that to 8
9 be epidemiologically true, that some predictor 9
10 signs are more accurate than others when it comes 10
11 to knowing whether or not a visible sign shows a 11
12 concussion? 12
13 A Are you asking me if others outside of the 13
14 NHL have done this research? 14
15 Q I'm asking if you've seen any 15
16 peer-reviewed articles. 16
18 A So, so, we've done this -- let me just 18
19 explain and then -- so we've done this research 19
20 with our denominator study, okay, and, and 20
21 it's -- and I believe we've written up something 21
22 that's being peer reviewed right now. 22
23 But I'm not aware of anyone else who's 23
24 done what we've done. I think what we've done is 24
25 actually quite cutting edge. 25
Page 283 Page 285

1 Q Let me -- this is Number 26. I'm showing 1
2 you, Ms. Grand, what we've marked as 2
3 Exhibit Number 26. 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 286 Page 288

1 1 A I think I know what you're getting at, but
2 2 I --
3 3 Q What do you think I'm getting at?
4 4 A But I don't think that's an accurate
5 5 statement of the facts.
6 6 MR. KEYTE: Perhaps a document.
7 7 Q Uh-huh. I'm going to show you what we are
8 8 going to mark as Exhibit Number 27.
9 9 (E-mail from Julie Grand to Gary
10 10 Bettman and others, dated March
11 11 8, 2011, Bates-stamped
13 13 marked as Exhibit 27 for
15 15 date.)
16 16 Q And you will see here, there is a heading
17 17 that says, "Visible signs of concussion. Players
18 18 returned to game. Julie Grand, Gary Bettman,
19 19 Bill Dalia -- Bill Daly, Ruben Echemendia," dated
20 20 March 8, 2011, correct?
21 21 A Yes.
22 22 Q You don't have any doubt that this is an
23 23 e-mail that you wrote, correct?
24 24 A No.
25 25 Q And you remember writing this e-mail,
Page 287 Page 289

1 1 don't you?
2 2 A I do.
3 3 Q And, and when you wrote this e-mail, you
4 4 were reporting on statistics that you had
5 Q Now, from time to time in your work, 5 received about, generally, same-game return to
6 you've gotten information about players who 6 play, correct?
7 return to the same game while exhibiting physical 7 A Correct.
8 signs of a concussion, correct? 8 Q And your concern was that it appeared that
9 A Can you repeat the question? 9 players were being returned to play in the same
10 Q Sure. 10 game more frequently than you understood the
11 From time to time during your work, you 11 protocol to permit, correct?
12 have received information that a certain player 12 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
13 returned to play while he was exhibiting visible 13 A I was concerned that -- my question was
14 signs of a concussion. 14 whether players who were -- had exhibited visible
15 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. 15 signs of concussion, whether they were being
16 A I don't understand the question. 16 properly removed for evaluation pursuant to the
17 Q Okay. Let me try it again. 17 protocol.
18 From time to time during your work, you 18 Q And did you follow up on that with any of
19 have received reports that a player was returned 19 the clubs of the players whose names were
20 to play in the same game, despite suffering 20 identified to you when you asked?
21 visible signs of a concussion and did not receive 21 A Yes.
22 an evaluation by a trainer or a team doctor? 22 Q And what follow up did you do?
23 A I, I don't think that's an accurate 23 A I would have reached out to the clubs.
24 statement of the facts. 24 Q And when you say "reached out," what do
25 Q You've never received such information? 25 you mean?

612.338.3376
Page 290 Page 292

1 A Called. 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 Q You would have looked at video clips of 15
16 the actual incident, wouldn't you? 16
17 A Yes. 17
18 Q And you would have, from that, decided 18
19 whether or not the club followed the protocol as 19
20 it's written, correct? 20
21 A So, I mean -- I just want to put this in 21
22 timeframe here, okay? 22
23 So, this is March 8th, 2011, okay? So 23
24 this is at a time when our protocol required a 24
25 club to remove a player who was suspected of a 25
Page 291 Page 293

1 possible concussion and to evaluate him. What it 1
2 didn't have in it at the time was a list of what 2
3 we viewed to be the visible signs. And so, what, 3
4 what we did, as a result of this, was, we said, 4
5 "You know what? Let's, let's, let's identify for 5
6 the clubs and for the players, and let's work 6
7 with the concussion subcommittee to come up with 7
8 a specific list of the circumstances in which 8
9 everyone's on the same page. And if these things 9
10 happen, players should be removed for an 10
11 evaluation for a possible concussion." 11
12 So we took this information, and we 12
13 identified, you know, from video clips, the 13
14 circumstances and worked with the concussion 14
15 subcommittee and our doctors and the union, what 15
16 those specific circumstances were. And we made a 16
17 mid-season change to our concussion protocol, 17
18 which we issued in March of 2015 -- March of 18
19 2011, directly after this, that led to the, 19
20 "Here's the list of visible science. If these 20
21 happen, you have to remove a player," and I 21
22 believe that's the time when we said, "for an 22
23 evaluation in a distraction-free environment." 23
24 So -- 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 294 Page 296

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 295 Page 297

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 298 Page 300

1 1 to us. And that's precisely what we follow up on
2 2 and discuss at the concussion subcommittee level,
3 3 so that we can figure out how to better educate
4 4 on that and figure out how to address.
5 5 Q Jennifer Raimondi works for the NHL,
6 6 correct?
7 7 A Yes.
8 8 Q She actually pointed out that of 31
9 9 instances where a player returned to the game and
10 10 13 times there were visible signs, that's
11 11 actually almost 42 percent, correct?
12 12 A (Reviews document.) Thirty-one --
13 13 MR. KEYTE: Well, signs --
14 14 MR. GRYGIEL: Yeah.
15 15 MR. KEYTE: -- you're asking, not
16 16 diagnosed concussions.
17 17 A I'm sorry. What's the question?
18 18 Q Simply: Ms. Raimondi pointed out that 13
19 19 out of 31 is actually 42 percent, not 30 percent.
20 20 A Okay.
21 21 Q Did you ever discuss with Ms. Raimondi --
22 22 A I'm not sure.
23 23 Q -- her e-mail to you?
24 24 MR. KEYTE: Well, let -- slow down a
25 25 little bit, Steve.
Page 299 Page 301

1 Q When you wrote your -- Number 27 -- when 1 A Hang, hang on a second. I'm sorry.
2 you wrote this e-mail that is Exhibit Number 27, 2 Okay. I don't know what the -- I don't
3 you say, same game RTP and 30 percent seems like 3 know what the math was, but in any case, yes.
4 more than a quote, uncommon, close quote, 4 Q Did you ever discuss with Ms. Raimondi
5 circumstances. 5 this statistic?
6 Is it fair to say that you were concerned 6 A What statistic.
7 that teams were not properly following the 7 Q Forty-one point nine percent of players
8 return-to-play protocol? 8 returning to a game with visible signs?
9 A Let me see this. (Reviews document.) 9 MR. KEYTE: Again, objection --
10 I did have questions about it. Now, 10 A Again, she was, Ms. Raimondi was Gary
11 again, when, when, when you kind of dig a little 11 Meagher's assistant.
12 deeper in this, I don't think you know when these 12 Q Uh-huh.
13 players were diagnosed with a concussion. And 13 A I don't think she was -- I didn't
14 so, it may have been that these players were 14 substantively work with her on this project.
15 actually diagnosed with a concussion after the 15 Q Let me show you what we marked as
16 game. This, this, information comes to us -- we 16 Exhibit 28.
17 don't have a temporal aspect. So they could have 17
18 reported their symptoms, you know, after the 18
19 game, the next day, two days later. This comes 19
20 to us based on a diagnosis of concussion. And 20
21 then we ultimately pull the video clip. How and 21
22 when that diagnosis occurs, we don't get that 22
23 information. But -- so that's a big question 23
24 mark. 24
25 But that number, you know, was concerning 25

612.338.3376
Page 302 Page 304

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 303 Page 305

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 306 Page 308

1 1 Q And he is someone you understand has
2 2 firsthand observation of players?
3 3 A Along with all the other trainers.
4 4 Q And you have received an e-mail from him,
5 5 haven't you, in which he says that all of this
6 6 education you've been talking about is actually
7 7 lacking?
8 8 A What was the date of that e-mail?
9 9 Q I can show it to you.
10 10 A Thank you.
11 11 (E-mail from Colin Campbell to
12 12 Julie Grand and others dated May
13 13 16, 2013, Bates-stamped
15 Q Trainers are some of those who are make 15 marked as Exhibit 29 for
16 these decisions in realtime, aren't they? 16 identification, as of this
17 A Well, it's the trainers. It's the 17 date.)
18 doctors. 18 Q This is dated -- this to you -- Gerry
19 Q Team doctors, right. 19 Townend, May 15, 2013.
20 A And, and, and, and these -- you know, 20 A Okay.
21 these aren't, I think, as black and white as they 21 Q It's Exhibit Number 29. And for
22 sound. And the union, and the League and the 22 identification, the first page is an e-mail from
23 doctors, everyone is on the same page with that. 23 Colin Campbell to a number of people, in which he
24 So we created -- ultimately came up with 24 says, quote, This guy is an absolute freaking
25 the idea that the union agreed to of using video 25 idiot, exclamation point, close quote.
Page 307 Page 309

1 clips of former players. And so we've created 1 And underneath, that you will see there is
2 what we call our visible signs educational video 2 an e-mail forwarding from you -- from
3 and provided webinars to our doctors, our 3 Dr. Echemendia to you. It says, "See below from
4 trainers, our officials, our coaches, like, 4 Jerry Townend."
5 everyone, on the visible signs of concussion. 5 And on the back page, there is an e-mail
6 And, and so, that's, you know -- and there was a 6 from Townend, the Concussion Working Group, to
7 companion document that went with it. And we 7 Dr. Echemendia, correct?
8 issued a mid-season document last year, after 8 A From Gerry to Ruben.
9 getting more feedback on the visible signs and 9 Q And carbon, and copying Mark Aubry?
10 how to refine it and better describe things. 10 A And copying Mark Aubry, who is his team
11 So this is an evolution. 11 physician.
12 Q You know who Gerry Townend is, don't you? 12 Q Right. And you will see, he says, among
13 A I do. 13 other things, "We have a major issue with
14 Q And he is the head trainer for the Ottawa 14 education of our players. Still unsure if they
15 Senators? 15 get the information" --
16 A He is. 16 A I'm sorry, I'm kind of at the top, so...
17 Q And you've spoken with him from time to 17 Q Sure, take your time.
18 time about various issues dealing with 18 A Okay. Sorry.
19 concussions? 19 Q It's all right.
20 A I have. He's on the concussion 20 A Okay.
21 subcommittee. 21 Q We've been describing all the education in
22 Q Correct. 22 this iterative effort, and here we have a team
23 And he is someone's whose judgment you 23 trainer saying, in shorthand, the education is
24 respect? 24 not very good. Players aren't getting the
25 A I do. 25 information they need, nor our coaches, nor our

612.338.3376
Page 310 Page 312

1 GMs up to speed and understanding the issue. 1 on our concussion program? What do you want to
2 And my question is, how do you reconcile 2 hear?"
3 what a guy on the front lines is saying with what 3 And what Gerry is saying is, "You know
4 you've been testifying to? 4 what, what we need is, we need -- you know, our
5 A So, let's, let's kind of figure out where 5 players come in -- we want to know what
6 we are at this point in time. 6 treatments -- our players are constantly saying,
7 7 'What treatments are effective?' They want to
8 8 try, you know, this treatment, that treatment.
9 9 What's the science behind them?"
10 10 Because the players are the -- are the
11 11 ones who go to the trainers, and the trainers
12 12 don't have answers for them as to what their
13 13 scientific validity for. So the club are asked,
14 14 the clubs are asked to pay for various
15 15 treatments, and there's not scientific validity
16 16 behind almost everything with respect to
17 17 concussions, and the trainers are in kind of a
18 18 difficult spot.
19 19 And so, Gerry's venting on that and
20 20 turning to the concussion subcommittee and
21 21 saying, "Can you speak to our group and tell us,
22 22 from a, you know, this perspective, what, what
23 23 tools and avenues and treatments and therapies
24 24 and rehab" --
25 25 And so, this is constructive feedback
Page 311 Page 313

1 1 from, from Gerry for us to speak to at their, at
2 2 their upcoming meeting.
3 3 But we also go on. We provide, you know,
4 4 the same education, as I said, to their GMs, to
5 5 their coaches, to everyone on the concussion
6 6 program, so --
7 7 Q Wasn't, by 2013, the concussion education
8 8 mandatory for club personnel?
9 9 A It was. As I said, we're -- we're doing
10 10 it around, around the calendar. So Gerry's
11 11 frustrated because he feels like players -- you
12 12 know, he hears it from a player perspective and,
13 And last year, we created, through our 13 he feels like players still may not be reporting
14 concussion subcommittee, an educational video on 14 their symptoms, or they are getting push-back
15 concussions that came from the NHL, the NHLPA, 15 from players, or he doesn't know what message
16 our doctors, our trainers. And, and the union 16 players are getting.
17 still does their fall tour. 17 But that doesn't mean players necessarily
18 But this is kind of precisely the kind of 18 aren't getting the message. He's not a part of
19 feedback that is useful. He's venting, but it's 19 it, and he's frustrated.
20 useful. And we take it, and we turn it into, you 20 Q Has any GM ever been disciplined by the
21 know, something constructive. 21 League for failing to comply with the concussion
22 You know, he's also -- this is in 22 protocol?
23 May 2013. So, they have their PHATS meeting 23 A You mean for a club not following?
24 that's coming out. We asked him, "What would be 24 Q Right, yeah.
25 useful when we come and report to your membership 25 A I mean, because the --

612.338.3376
Page 314 Page 316

1 Q Obviously. 1 Q After 2007.
2 A -- GMs aren't the physicians. 2 A I'm sorry, what time period?
3 Q I understand. 3 Q Any time period after 2007.
4 But has any GM ever been held responsible 4 If you don't remember, you don't remember.
5 for a club's failure to comply with the protocol? 5 A It, it has a vague familiarity, but I
6 A I would say we haven't hit that phase 6 don't remember the time period.
7 of -- I mean, Montreal was fined. Calgary was 7
8 fined. So, I guess the answer is yes. 8
9 Who paid for it? I don't think I can 9
10 answer that question. 10
11 Q No coach has ever been fined for a club's 11
12 violation of the protocol? 12
13 A I don't, I don't know that a coach has 13
14 been fined. 14
15 Q You're familiar with the situation with 15
16 the New Jersey Devils, at the outset of -- or 16
17 early on in the neuropsych program, not having 17
18 neuropsych testing done to their players? 18
20 Timing. 20
21 A What -- I'm sorry, when are you talking 21
22 about? What time period? 22
23 MR. KEYTE: Or vague. Vague. 23
24 Q 2007. 24
25 A I recall -- 25
Page 315 Page 317

1 MR. KEYTE: That's ten years into the 1
2 program, but go ahead. 2
3 A Yes. 3
4 -- one year hearing that they had not 4
5 tested their players, and we followed up with 5
6 them at various points throughout that season. 6
7 And in April of that season, they did the 7
8 neuropsych testing on their players. 8
9 Q Do you remember speaking with Steve 9
10 Pellegrini of the Devils about that issue? 10
11 A That sounds familiar. 11
12 Q And do you remember telling him that 12
13 Mr. Lamoriello needed to get on board with this, 13
14 because the neuropsych testing was not optional? 14
15 A In sum or substance, that sounds familiar. 15
16 Q And do you remember Mr. Pellegrini telling 16
17 you that he would look into it? 17
18 A I probably would have followed up at that 18
19 point on my call, sure. 19
20 Q And don't you remember, in another 20 THE WITNESS: When we get a minute, can I
21 incident, where you found out that the New Jersey 21 take a break?
22 Devils had, again, not done neuropsych testing of 22 MR. GRYGIEL: Sure.
23 players who were supposed to be neuropsych 23 MR. KEYTE: Let's take five. Off the
24 tested? 24 record.
25 A What's the time period? 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 4:30.

612.338.3376
Page 318 Page 320

1 We're going off the record. 1
2 (Recess taken.) 2
3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 4:44. 3
4 We're back on the record. 4
5 Q We're back on the record, Ms. Grand. I 5
6 was asking you about the New Jersey Devils. 6
7 I would like to show you a document that 7
8 we're going to mark as Exhibit Number 30. 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 319 Page 321

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5 (E-mail from Julie Grand to Bill
6 6 Daly dated September 13, 2007,
7 7 Bates-stamped NHL2066067 through
8 8 069 was marked as Exhibit 31 for
10 10 date.)
11 11 Q You've seen this before, correct?
12 12 A Well, I, I was a party to it, and it was
13 13 one of the documents you marked.
14 14 Q And you don't have any doubt this is an
15 15 e-mail chain that you sent and received in the
16 16 ordinary course of your work at the National
17 17 Hockey League? It's a business record?
18 18 A No.
19 19 Q Okay. No, I don't have any doubt,
20 20 correct?
21 21 A No, I don't have any doubt.
22 22 Q Right. Thanks. Thanks, yeah.
23 23 I'm showing you now, Ms. Grand, what we've
24 24 marked as Exhibit Number 32. You will see this
25 25 is, again, an e-mail chain. This one is dated at

612.338.3376
Page 322 Page 324

1 the top, November 8, 2007, and it shows e-mail 1
2 exchanges, on the first page, between and you the 2
3 aforementioned Mr. Pellegrini, correct? 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 323 Page 325

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 326 Page 328

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 327 Page 329

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 330 Page 332

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 Q You know who Dr. Michael Stuart is, don't 8
9 you? 9
10 A I do. 10
11 Q And you know he is a doctor at the Mayo 11
12 Clinic? 12
13 A I do. 13
14 Q And you know he had three sons who played 14
15 hockey in the National Hockey League? 15
16 A Yes. 16
17 Q And he's someone you understand who is 17
18 knowledgeable about concussions? 18
19 A He is a well-respected doctor. 19
20 Q Right. 20
21 And you have respect for him, don't you? 21
22 A I do. 22
23 Q And you've discussed with Dr. Echemendia 23
24 his disagreements with Dr. Stuart, haven't you? 24
25 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Overbroad. 25
Page 331 Page 333

1 A I don't -- I can't recall these specifics. 1
2 I, I -- I don't recall these specifics. 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 334 Page 336

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 335 Page 337

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23 Q Now, a moment ago I asked you about
24 24 Townend, and he spoke with Colin Campbell.
25 25 Do you remember that?

612.338.3376
Page 338 Page 340

1 A Do you have -- 1 A Okay.
2 Q Mr. Campbell writes -- 2 Q And you had found Mr. Townend's feedback
3 A -- a timeframe? 3 useful in enabling you to prepare the
4 Q Yeah. It was back May 20, 2013. 4 presentations that you were looking at then,
5 A Are you talking about when Gerry gave me 5 correct?
6 feedback about -- 6 A The presentation to --
7 Q Right. 7 Q To PHATS.
8 A -- what he wanted us to present on at the 8 A Well, the PHATS presentation on, on, on
9 PHATS meeting? 9 the Concussion Working Group and the treatments
10 Q Right. 10 and the scientific validity of the treatments.
11 A And Coley was a little annoyed about 11 Q In fact, you said, This is good feedback
12 Gerry's comments about the officials? 12 and will be useful enabling us to prepare for our
13 Q And you're aware, of course, that 13 presentation, close quote, right?
14 Mr. Campbell spoke with Gerry, correct? 14 A Yeah, on the science, on the validity --
15 A Sounds familiar. 15 scientific validity of the treatments that the
16 Q Coley asked for Gerry's phone number, 16 players asked for from the clubs, uh-huh.
17 right? 17 Q But you're talking there, at the e-mail at
18 A I remember they spoke. 18 the bottom of the second page in, about the
19 Q And then you got an e-mail later from 19 information Mr. Townend gave you generally,
20 Gerry saying, "Got an earful," right? 20 correct, and you're saying that note is useful.
21 A They spoke. It was -- that's good, good 21 It's good information?
22 to communicate. 22 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
23 Q Do you remember any follow-up with 23 A I, I was specifically talking about what
24 Mr. Townend, telling you exactly what 24 Gerry asked us to present on to the concussion --
25 Mr. Campbell said to him about this criticism of 25 to the PHATS group on our concussion subcommittee
Page 339 Page 341

1 the officials in not calling head shots? 1 matters and that specific area that the, the
2 A Is there an e-mail you can refresh me on? 2 trainers in their interactions with the players
3 Q Sure. 3 and the scientific treatments.
4 A Okay. 4 And, in fact, we presented on that very
5 (E-mail from Gerry Townend to 5 issue in 2013 and presented on what had been
6 Julie Grand dated May 20, 2013, 6 discussed in Zurich or in the consensus
7 Bates-stamped NHL2071340 through 7 statements on that very issue to give them
8 1343 was marked as Exhibit 38 8 guidance on that, so they could give direction to
9 for identification, as of this 9 the players on, on, on the various treatments and
10 date.) 10 the scientific validity behind them.
11 Q I'm going to show you what we're marking 11 Q Mr. Townend writes on the first page,
12 as Exhibit Number 38. 12 "That was real fun talking to him," "him" being
13 A Thank you. 13 Coley Campbell. And at the top he says, "I can
14 Q And you'll see -- you're welcome -- a 14 handle it. Let me know when you have time, and I
15 couple-page-document. You'll see at the top it 15 will fill you in."
16 says "Concussion Working Group, Gerry Townend to 16 Did he ever fill you in?
17 J. Grand." 17 A We probably talked after this.
18 The very first page basically captures 18 Q Do you remember --
19 what I was getting at. Mr. Townend -- 19 A We talk often.
20 A Do you mind if I read the document? 20 Q Do you remember what he told you about
21 Sorry. 21 Mr. Campbell's tirade?
22 Q I'll simply point out for the record, 22 A I don't have a specific recollection.
23 while we're looking at it, that the page numbered 23 Q Fair to say that he told you Campbell
24 Bates number ending in 1342 begins the Townend 24 launched a tirade against him for making these
25 memo that we went through before you. 25 criticisms?

612.338.3376
Page 342 Page 344

2 A I don't have a specific recollection. 2
3 Q Do you have any recollection? 3
4 A Gerry and I talk often. Coley and I talk 4
5 often. 5
6 I, I, I don't -- I'm sure they had an 6
7 emotional conversation. 7
8 Q You say you're sure because you know both 8
9 personalities? 9
10 A I do. 10
11 Q You know who Charles Tator is, don't you? 11
12 A I do. 12
13 Q And he's a doctor who has, from time to 13
14 time, participated with the NHL in discussing 14
15 certain concussion initiatives? 15
16 A He has -- we've worked with him on some 16
17 concussion initiatives, and he's reached out to 17
18 us to -- I would say try to get us to engage on 18
19 other concussion initiatives with the union, 19
20 without the union, and, yes. 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 343 Page 345

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 346 Page 348

1 1 is right?
3 3 A Okay. I, I don't recall that discussion.
4 4 Q Have you ever had any discussions with
5 5 Mr. Walkom, the director of officiating, whereby
6 6 he says, "Fighting puts people in the seats"?
8 8 A I, I don't recall him making that
9 9 statement.
10 10 Q Would it surprise you if he made it?
11 11 MR. KEYTE: Same objection.
12 12 A I -- no comment. I mean, I don't know. I
13 13 don't know if he would make that statement or not
14 14 make that statement.
15 15 Q Representing to you that he did, do you
16 16 incongruous that the director of officiating in
17 17 the National Hockey League says fighting is
18 18 permitted and that's part of what we're selling?
19 19 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation. Calls
20 20 for speculation.
21 21 A Well, it's, it's, it's, it's not
22 22 permitted. It's penalized, under the rules of
23 23 our game. And so, I would find that
24 24 characterization of it surprising, that it's
25 25 permitted.
Page 347 Page 349

1 1 Q So if he said that, it's wrong?
2 2 A Well, my interpretation of the rules is
3 3 that there's specific rules that penalize
4 4 fighting.
5 5
6 Q Speaking of that, you know who Stephen 6
7 Walkom is, don't you? 7
8 A Yes. 8
9 Q He was the NHL's director of officiating 9
10 for a period of time, wasn't he? 10
11 A He, he still is. 11
12 Q Well, he was, then he went back to being 12
13 an on-ice official and then he came back to being 13
14 director of officiating, correct? 14
15 A Correct. 15
16 Q Have you ever spoken with him about 16
17 whether fighting is, quote, permitted or not 17
18 permitted in the National Hockey League? 18
20 A Well, fight -- we have rules that 20
21 prohibit -- that penalize fighting. 21
22 Q Have you ever heard Mr. Walkom say that 22
23 fight is, in fact, permitted, and that there is 23
24 an unwritten code that says it's permitted if the 24
25 combatants are willing and the and the situation 25

612.338.3376
Page 350 Page 352

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 351 Page 353

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 354 Page 356

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 l. 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 355 Page 357

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 358 Page 360

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 359 Page 361

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 362 Page 364

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11 .
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 363 Page 365

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 366 Page 368

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 367 Page 369

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15 Q Because I don't want to forget, before you
16 16 came here today to testify, I take it you did
17 17 some things to prepare for your deposition.
18 18 A I did.
19 19 Q What did you do?
20 20 A I reviewed most, but probably not all, of
21 21 the documents you identified.
22 22 Q And when you say you reviewed them, did
23 23 you review them with people helping you?
24 24 MR. KEYTE: You can answer that.
25 25 A Okay. Some, some of them.

612.338.3376
Page 370 Page 372

1 Q Did you meet with lawyers to prepare to 1 MR. GRYGIEL: Yeah.
2 come here today? 2 MR. KEYTE: Should I go -- should we take
3 A Yes. 3 time for me to talk about those, or do you think
4 Q And who are those lawyers? 4 you're going to have another couple of -- in
5 A My, my three counsel who are sitting here. 5 other words --
6 Q Anybody else? 6 MR. GRYGIEL: I have a couple of more
7 A No. 7 questions.
8 Q Did you review any deposition transcripts 8 MR. KEYTE: So we won't do that yet.
9 of depositions previously taken in the case? 9 MR. GRYGIEL: Yeah.
10 A No. 10 MR. KEYTE: We'll take a five-minute
11 Q Did you review any other documents, other 11 break --
12 than those that were provided in the list that I 12 MR. GRYGIEL: Yeah.
13 submitted to your counsel? 13 MR. KEYTE: -- and you guys can do that.
14 A I feel like maybe there were, like, two 14 And then, then we'll -- if you don't or
15 documents, two additional documents. 15 you have a little bit, we'll take another break.
16 Q Did they refresh your recollection about 16 MR. GRYGIEL: Great. Sounds good.
17 anything you've testified to today? 17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 5:44.
18 A Let me think what they were. 18 We're going off the record.
19 Q Obviously, you didn't -- 19 (Recess taken.)
20 A I can't remember what they were. 20 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 5:58.
21 MR. KEYTE: That's probably a "no" then. 21 We're back on the record.
22 Q How long did you meet with your counsel? 22 Q I'm going to show you, Ms. Grand, what I'm
23 A Oh, for most of Friday, most of Monday, 23 marking as Exhibit Number 43. This is the
24 and most of yesterday. 24 letter, without the attachments, pages 1 through
25 Q Okay. So altogether, give or take, around 25 24, of Commissioner Bettman's letter in response
Page 371 Page 373

1 24 hours? 1 to Senator Blumenthal's letter, correct?
2 A Sure. 2 I just want to identify. This is the one
3 Q Apart from talking to your counsel, did 3 we referred to earlier in your testimony today.
4 you do anything independent, yourself, for 4 (Letter to Senator Blumenthal
5 example, make a phone call to somebody and say, 5 from Commissioner Gary B.
6 "Hey, what did we do with this particular issue 6 Bettman dated July 22, 2016 was
7 concerning the Concussion Working Group?" 7 marked as Exhibit 43 for
8 A No. 8 identification, as of this
9 Q Nothing like that? 9 date.)
10 A No. 10 A Yes.
11 Q Have I identified everything you have done 11 MR. KEYTE: 43?
12 to prepare for your deposition today, other than 12 MR. GRYGIEL: Yes.
13 simply rely on the memory you've developed over 13 Q Are you aware of retired players filing
14 your work? 14 Workers' Compensation claims for concussions they
15 A Over the weekend, I, I spent time on my 15 sustained in the National Hockey League?
16 own also reviewing the documents. 16 MR. KEYTE: Objection. Foundation.
17 MR. KEYTE: Same documents. 17 A I'm not involved in, in the, the filing or
18 A Same documents. 18 reviewing or -- I don't, I don't see Workers'
19 Q Anything else? 19 Compensation claims that are filed, so, I, I
20 A No. 20 wouldn't know if they are filed. So, no, but
21 MR. GRYGIEL: Let's take that break now. 21 because I wouldn't know.
22 I'll see what I've got. 22 Q So you never saw any reports, for example,
23 MR. KEYTE: Okay. Now, do you think -- 23 from Chubb Insurance about Workers' Compensation
24 we'll probably have literally five or six 24 claim filed by NFL retirees arising out of
25 questions. 25 concussions?

612.338.3376
Page 374 Page 376

1 A No, not that I recall. 1
2 Q You haven't seen any tracking of data from 2
3 such concussions and related Workers' 3
4 Compensation claims? 4
6 A Not that I recall. 6
7 Q Is there anyone that you're aware of 7
8 within the National Hockey League executive ranks 8
9 who would be tracking such information about 9
10 Workers' Compensation claims filed with Chubb? 10
12 A I don't know. 12
13 MR. KEYTE: You're going to use every one 13
14 of those 14 and a half minutes, aren't you? 14
15 MR. GRYGIEL: You know me. 15
16 MR. KEYTE: You can use every one of those 16
17 three minutes you have left. 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 375 Page 377

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 378 Page 380

1 1
2 2
3 3 MR. GRYGIEL: Simply to keep the record
4 4 clean, I neglected, as I was just told, to mark
5 5 the letter from Commissioner Bettman. So let's
6 6 mark that as Exhibit Number -- oh, I marked it as
7 7 43.
8 8 (Whereupon, a discussion was
9 9 held off the record.)
10 10 MR. GRYGIEL: Let's remark this as 44.
11 11 So 43 is Commissioner Bettman's letter,
12 12 and 44 is the March 17 e-mail from Julie Grand to
13 13 Bill Daly, Bates numbers 2060686 and going
14 14 through 689.
15 15 A Do you want to fix this one?
16 16 Q Yes. Thanks.
17 17 A Sure.
18 18 .
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 379 Page 381

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 382 Page 384

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 383 Page 385

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25 Q Is there anything you've testified to

612.338.3376
Page 386 Page 388

1 today that you want to change? 1 the risk? And I think it's really -- the
2 A No. 2 question is unique to each player. What are
3 Q You've had a full -- 3 they -- what's their medical history? What's
4 MR. KEYTE: It's not, it's not a trick 4 their experience been playing hockey? What do
5 question. 5 they know about the risks? What's scientifically
6 A Did I just say something? 6 based, so what's reasonable and appropriate to,
7 Q You've had a full opportunity to answer my 7 to advise them of so that they should each -- you
8 questions today? 8 know, this particular player should know about
9 A Yes. 9 this, based on his particular history. And so, I
10 MR. GRYGIEL: Thank you. With that, and 10 think the -- the information that should be
11 reserving my rights on any recross, I turn you 11 provided to each player is really
12 over to your counsel. 12 player-specific.
13 MR. KEYTE: All right. And we'll just 13 So I, I do think it's appropriate for
14 take five or so and then we'll come back to be 14 players to, to know risks that are associated
15 sure. 15 with playing hockey that are scientifically
16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 6:15. 16 based, based on their personal history and their
17 We're going off the record. 17 experience. I would, I would really expect that
18 (Recess taken.) 18 to come at a provider level for most -- I guess I
19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 6:28. 19 would say for most things. And maybe, if there's
20 We're back on the record. 20 some areas where there is new science, and that
21 EXAMINATION BY 21 at a league in a union level, it was a decision
22 MR. KEYTE: 22 to provide certain information about something,
23 Q Ms. Grand, I just have a few follow-up 23 there might be something provided at that level.
24 questions. 24 But I would typically think it would be
25 Counsel for plaintiffs asked you if you 25 kind of player-specific tailored to their unique
Page 387 Page 389

1 agree with Brian Burke that NHL players are 1 history and scientifically based.
2 entitled to a full description of the potential 2
3 risks associated with playing National Hockey 3
4 League hockey. 4
5 Do you recall that, do you recall that 5
6 question? 6
7 A Yes. 7
8 Q And you testified that it sounded like it 8
9 should be simple to answer, but it is not. 9
10 What did you want to explain? 10
11 A So, what I wanted to explain is, I think 11
12 you need to look at -- or kind of consider this 12
13 first, from the aspect of who first would kind of 13
14 deliver that, that sort of a message, and then we 14
15 can talk about what the message is. 15
16 So, our clubs, our club medical staff, are 16
17 the, the primary people who interact with our 17
18 clubs. Our club doctors, our club trainers, 18
19 they, you know, at the League level, at the union 19
20 level, were really kind of a, a supplemental 20
21 level to provide information. 21
22 So, I think there's kind of first the 22
23 question of who. And then, and then, I think you 23
24 have the kind of, the question of what. What's 24
25 the message that you're delivering in terms of 25

612.338.3376
Page 390 Page 392

1 1 A I don't think that's a -- that wasn't my
2 2 complete statement. I said that I thought
3 3 that -- at the initial level, I thought it was
4 4 important for clubs to take on that
5 5 responsibility.
6 6 And I said that I thought that the League
7 7 and the PA may -- in certain circumstances, it
8 8 may be appropriate based on the medical science.
9 9 And other things for the League and the PA to
10 10 advise, at a League level, certain things.
11 11 Q And for example, subparagraph A, notices
12 12 on concussions, describes six different forms of
13 13 notices, correct?
14 14 A Yes.
15 15 Q And none of those were individualized to
16 16 particular players, but rather to all players,
17 17 correct?
18 18 A Yes.
19 19 Q And the same is true with the educational
20 20 videos on concussions, right?
21 21 A Yes.
22 22 MR. GRYGIEL: That's it.
23 23 MR. KEYTE: All right.
24 24 That's all.
25 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 6:35.
Page 391 Page 393

1 1 This concludes today's deposition,
2 2 August 3, 2016.
3 3
4 4 (Time adjourned 6:35 p.m.)
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 MR. KEYTE: No more questions, subject to 11
12 any questions from Mr. Grygiel. 12
13 MR. GRYGIEL: Just one, maybe two. 13
14 FURTHER EXAMINATION BY 14
15 MR. GRYGIEL: 15
16 Q Would you pick up Exhibit 43. And that 16
17 was Commissioner Bettman's letter. And just kind 17
18 of turn to the page number 15. 18
19 Do you have that in front of you? 19
20 A Yes. 20
21 Q A moment ago you testified about the 21
22 necessity of individualized advising of the 22
23 players of risks, correct? 23
24 A Well -- 24
25 MR. KEYTE: Objection. 25

612.338.3376
Page 394
1 CERTIFICATE
2
3 I, AMANDA McCREDO, a Shorthand Reporter
4 and Notary Public of the State of New York, do
5 hereby certify:
6 That the witness whose examination is
7 hereinbefore set forth, was duly sworn, and
8 that such examination is a true record of the
9 testimony given by such witness.
10 I further certify that I am not related to any
11 of the parties to this action by blood or
12 marriage; and that I am in no way interested in
13 the outcome of this matter.
14 Dated: 8/4/16
15
16 _______________
17 AMANDA McCREDO
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 395
1 ERRATA SHEET FOR THE TRANSCRIPT OF:
2 Case Name: In re: National Hockey League
Players' Concussion Injury
3 Litigation
4 Dep. Date: August 3, 2016
5 Deponent: Julie Grand
6
7 CORRECTIONS:
8 Pg. Ln. Now Reads Should Read Reason
9 ___ ___ ______________ ________________ ______
10 ___ ___ ______________ ________________ ______
11 ___ ___ ______________ ________________ ______
12 ___ ___ ______________ ________________ ______
13 ___ ___ ______________ ________________ ______
14 ___ ___ ______________ ________________ ______
15 ___ ___ ______________ ________________ ______
16 ___ ___ ______________ ________________ ______
17 ___ ___ ______________ ________________ ______
18 ___ ___ ______________ ________________ ______
19
______________________
20 Signature of Deponent
21 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME
22 THIS___DAY OF___________, 20__
23
24 ______________________________
25 (Notary Public) MY COMMISSION EXPIRES:_________

612.338.3376
Page 396
1 ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF DEPONENT
2 I, , do hereby
3 certify that I have read the foregoing
4 pages, and that the same is a correct
5 transcription of the answers given by me
6 to the questions therein propounded,
7 except for the corrections or changes in
8 form or substance, if any, noted in the
9 attached Errata Sheet.
10
11
12 ______________________________
JULIE GRAND
13
14 Subscribed and sworn to
15 before me on this_____ day
16 of ____________, ________.
17 _______________________________
18 Notary Public
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

612.338.3376
Page 397
A 95:24 96:1 adequate 136:10 271:2 altogether

ability 10:3,7 96:4 97:10 116:6 172:6,24 355:13 252:24
10:11 86:12 98:21 99:3 adjectives 173:14 357:10 253:1
able 228:24 acted 176:13 363:20 176:11 agrees 148:6 370:25
263:24 acting 153:23 adjourned afternoon Ah 146:18 alumni 37:11
264:1 350:8 168:14 393:4 175:16 ahead 26:5 139:6
350:15,18 action 143:19 administered 210:2 39:3 48:20 141:23
absolute 394:11 273:13,15 age 105:25 58:6,8 99:6 142:4,7,22
253:17 active 46:23 367:25 206:3 100:18 143:4,9,13
308:24 actively 18:1 administeri... Agency 8:8 117:4 180:13,21
absolutely 18:3 44:20 275:14 8:10 118:23 223:10,14
25:13 66:25 activities 277:1,4 agenda 138:17 223:20
69:4 166:7 235:25 336:16 200:15 160:6 207:7 Alzheimer's
210:17,21 actual 23:1 337:2 aggressive 222:6,9 111:23,25
248:14 202:18 administers 184:3 347:2 225:17 114:18
abstract 30:8 208:13 333:3 ago 76:20 231:10 130:14,17
abuse 139:4 290:16 administra... 79:7 90:7 235:15 Amanda 1:19
accepting 298:21 15:11 101:16 241:5 8:9 165:3
381:24 acute 131:14 admit 329:17 124:8 151:7 248:19 173:22
access add 69:10 adopting 208:6 257:21 263:2 394:3
242:20 268:20 357:8,13 221:12 284:21 394:17
330:4 284:20 advantage 229:12 293:12 amazing
accomplish... added 16:15 68:18 271:21 315:2 214:2,9,21
251:25 145:2 adverse 317:17 322:22 214:23
254:14 250:15 363:13 337:23 357:4 326:22
255:25 addition 14:9 advice 15:9 391:21 383:14 Amen 103:6,8
376:4 127:1 200:9 15:25 364:8 agree 21:7 384:16 103:19,22
accomplish... 224:25 advisable 51:2,4,5,11 385:5,10,15 amended
256:12 additional 190:24 58:1 68:24 ahold 319:8 355:24
account 370:15 advise 302:12 84:3,17,23 akin 224:7 Amen's
216:7 address 388:7 164:12 alarming 103:15
accuracy 44:17 59:11 392:10 194:4 160:4,7 America
244:17 68:16 124:4 advised 218:12,20 align 223:18 353:8
accurate 131:22 92:14,16 218:21 alike 16:5,9 amorphous
61:15 82:21 147:24,25 advising 219:3,3 allegation 59:1
86:18 91:17 147:25 391:22 223:21 149:17 amount
238:9 177:14 advisors 256:7 274:3 allegations 25:16 27:11
242:22 188:16 89:24 154:4 285:4 347:5 148:7 87:4 385:8
245:15 195:16 154:15 379:20 363:21,23 analyses
282:10 232:8 176:24,25 387:1 allow 223:8 94:13 97:9
287:23 234:21 226:5 agreed 50:4 277:11,25 97:14
288:4 345:1 249:18 231:16 100:6 285:16,19 analyses/c...
383:15 254:22 365:17 189:16 375:24 256:3
385:17 294:1,17 390:10,17 191:18 allowed analysis
accurately 300:4 345:8 advisory 198:15 277:21 24:24 26:9
90:5 238:13 354:15 199:15 306:25 349:9 34:4 45:6
achievable addressed 200:3 356:23 allows 263:18 94:3 96:2
100:22 83:24 affect 51:3 357:1 285:12 96:21 98:3
achieve 110:16 57:23 215:9 agreed-upon allusive 103:15
100:25 294:8 217:25 198:6 113:7 125:16
320:24 addressing 231:4 agreement 140:13 133:9,12
acids 103:11 15:15 affiliated 15:11,12,16 172:20 141:4
104:6 147:24 200:16 16:7 95:8 all-head-hit 174:10
ACKNOWLE... 224:24 aforementi... 141:10 345:9 177:10
396:1 225:3 322:3 270:7,12,16 ALS 112:14 200:9
acrylic 95:17 236:18 afraid 53:1 270:22 114:18 228:24

612.338.3376
Page 398
245:24 139:15,17 160:13 40:10 94:18 154:17,23 159:11

246:2 142:24 161:10 appreciation 200:11 161:15,22
250:12 143:1,2 162:4 354:2 201:4 341:1 163:4
252:12 146:2 150:7 390:23 apprise areas 16:2 207:16
254:18 150:8,10,21 anxious 138:14 33:24 35:23 210:12
256:20 151:4 163:1 apprised 36:14 226:16
257:25 152:18 anybody 191:2 105:10 227:15,21
258:3 159:10,22 18:13 70:2 approach 129:19 259:6,6
344:15 159:25 159:18 58:18 77:3 132:21 271:22
355:7 160:6 181:18 89:1 239:10 133:20 273:1 279:6
357:14 164:24 258:24 280:11 157:4 224:2 279:12
376:25 165:11,16 259:7,8,17 325:23 388:20 289:20
382:12 165:19,19 370:6 326:1,4 arena 93:20 290:4
analytics/p... 172:12 anymore 391:5 arguable 311:24
186:18 173:25 229:8 approached 344:18 312:13,14
analyze 174:5,12,15 anyway 148:12,13 arguably 337:23
345:6 174:24 219:22 174:7 294:7 344:18 338:16
analyzed 202:5 256:10 378:2 argument 340:16,24
96:8 99:12 232:10 apart 21:8 approaching 149:23 381:4
115:22 259:13,14 37:16 77:4 236:9 Argumenta... 386:25
237:15 259:15,20 135:25 appropriate 272:23 389:9,18
280:1 262:13 141:12 64:2 87:6 arising asking 28:19
analyzing 265:2 273:5 142:20 148:8 256:1 373:24 31:20 32:6
45:10 46:3 273:6 172:5,16,23 367:23 arithmetic 40:23 87:24
140:2 345:7 284:17 195:18 388:6,13 60:11 100:4
Andie 219:20 295:9 314:8 237:24 392:8 arm's 169:20 112:21,22
Andrew 3:17 314:10 239:7 240:2 appropriat... arose 15:18 117:20
78:12 355:8,21 371:3 64:2 147:7 65:18 118:10
and/or 29:11 362:2 apologize 147:10,11 ARPS 1:16 119:8 125:2
29:13 369:24 23:24 31:22 147:12,25 2:13 128:23
angles 382:1,2 366:3 285:1 array 15:21 136:1,3
146:15 386:7 387:9 apparent approval 16:2 162:21
ankle 27:6 answered 65:19 356:10 arrived 196:25
annoyed 11:3 30:7 apparently 361:17 251:14 211:15
334:6 83:1 84:10 60:11 66:9 approved 286:9 226:15,17
338:11 110:11,17 216:21 369:11 article 117:9 262:7
annual 110:19 379:4 383:4 approxima... 117:14 265:18
253:21 149:21 appealing 8:6 10:15 171:24 267:10
285:7 294:5 158:7,8,12 352:15 approxima... 183:5 273:7,9,11
answer 20:22 161:22 appear 25:18 195:18,19 273:14
23:10,11 162:19 278:11 April 6:14,22 196:21 276:21
29:23 30:1 166:3 223:9 279:2 7:18 60:2 355:14,22 282:7,13,15
30:8 38:20 226:16 appearance 315:7 articles 128:1 300:15
39:3 48:21 234:20 378:9 323:21 281:13,16 305:1,5
52:5,6,12 235:2 appeared 324:4 335:8 282:8,16 310:10
52:13 57:8 answering 289:8 335:18 articulate 318:6
70:3 87:17 32:11 38:11 325:14 380:20 108:20 346:14
96:15 112:16 appears 381:2 378:16 353:25
110:13 answers 319:3 arbitrator asked 41:6 378:18
113:1 118:2 38:18 358:12 262:2 42:10 82:25 asks 221:15
118:23 312:12 381:12 area 34:8,16 102:14 aspect
120:17,25 396:5 application 35:13,18 103:24 148:21
137:15,17 antitrust 261:9 72:15,19 116:10 299:17
137:19 13:21 appointed 101:1 117:6 123:9 387:13
138:1,24 anxiety 85:25 134:12,15 149:24 aspects 35:6
139:10,14 159:23 appreciate 141:18 158:7,12 45:1 47:7

612.338.3376
Page 399
141:3 287:1 396:9 125:10 352:7 271:19 94:23 95:20

ass 342:21 attachment authorizati... 363:16 272:9,14 96:2,6 98:1
343:19 208:17 275:7 367:24 274:12,14 126:18
assertions 381:18 available 373:13 274:24 133:16
185:9 382:6 21:1 374:7 275:1 146:10
assessed attachments avenues Awareness 278:12 174:10
365:22 372:24 129:13 62:22 279:15 177:15,15
assessing attendee 275:11 awful 260:25 284:2 177:16
278:6 54:13 312:23 358:13 285:25 206:20
assessment attention average Aynsley 292:14 217:3
68:24 264:5 98:1,4 25:19 382:17 294:12 244:14
265:14,15 137:3 avoid 53:5 385:22 296:16 245:9
265:16 141:19 avoiding A.J 183:5 309:5 318:4 267:14
268:19 163:12 141:18 a.m 1:18 5:10 318:5 270:20
assessments 168:10,19 142:2 8:6 233:6 337:18 276:19
365:15 168:22 await 205:2 338:4 292:17
assistant 170:1 391:6 205:12 B 347:12,13 299:20
301:11 attitude award 375:4 B 7:13 55:6 349:23 333:22
associated 353:7,17 375:18 55:24 56:14 354:9 388:6,9,16
55:9 165:5 attitudes 377:16 92:8 135:4 372:21 388:16
305:22 353:21 378:4,12 135:17,23 376:10 389:1 392:8
363:2 387:3 attorney 379:8 381:3 136:4 373:5 386:14,20 baseline
388:14 146:4 362:1 381:5,25 baby 184:8 backs 60:10 19:22 217:5
association attorneys 2:2 382:10,16 back 36:9 backward 252:20
8:10 15:13 2:7,13 aware 10:10 45:7 51:7 331:23 273:12
37:12 68:19 143:19 17:1 18:25 51:10,13,25 backwards 274:9,12,25
82:22 90:18 144:1 21:9 22:7 57:8 76:12 367:9 278:8,12,15
90:25 142:8 attorney-cl... 22:13,17 85:5 98:6 bad 30:22 278:17
144:23 142:25 23:1,6,12 106:3,7 44:4 137:21 317:11
145:2,7,11 146:4 202:6 28:20 29:4 109:16 168:14 318:17
145:16,18 361:25 30:11 75:3 113:16 210:20 319:5 324:2
190:2 Aubry 162:14 86:11 96:20 127:16 242:11 324:7
194:18 199:1 309:9 97:8 128:15 134:11 251:18 366:15
195:21 309:10 128:23 150:3,5 296:8 377:14
196:20 audible 9:20 139:24 154:9,24 balance bases 381:5
199:22,25 audience 141:2,25 156:19 265:14,15 basic 275:11
305:8 87:3 142:16 158:3 165:2 266:3 basically
350:24 audit 237:3 145:1,17 173:21 ball 200:1 276:22
390:10,17 237:14 153:23 175:15 Baltimore 2:3 339:18
associational 246:11 154:6,18,24 188:1 8:13 basis 41:3
231:21 audited 243:8 155:3,8,9 189:19 bank 115:8 47:1 82:8
associations 253:2 155:17,24 190:5,8 Barber 90:1 98:24
154:2,9,25 auditing 156:3,3 191:22 358:17 122:6
Association's 246:13 158:17,21 198:3 bargaining 134:18
180:13 248:21,24 159:1 161:9 203:20 15:8,10,12 147:23
assume 250:2,11 175:17 209:17 15:13,16 157:3,24
323:6 257:19 177:24 210:20 16:6 355:13 185:19
assuming August 1:18 220:1 211:17 Barr 334:25 192:10
29:9 5:2,4 8:5 245:18 212:10 base 178:18 237:17
athletic 108:11 268:24 218:6 219:9 baseball 243:9
236:25 220:22 281:12 228:4 284:11 247:13
272:20 221:5 282:23 232:15 286:4,21 253:21
attached 60:3 222:14,21 296:9 238:22 based 39:7 274:5 285:7
358:18 226:1 393:2 325:11 253:19 52:3 57:21 365:1
381:9,12,13 395:4 337:15,20 254:2,11,12 72:11 82:9 379:13
381:14 author 338:13 263:2 82:11,19 390:8

612.338.3376
Page 400
Bates 62:3 380:21 96:18 103:9 47:1,3,11 381:24 283:4,11

187:1 384:7 114:25 62:22 384:6 288:19,19
339:24 Bay 3:23 116:5 131:22 Bettman's 302:24
358:15,18 101:9 119:11,16 134:9 192:1 303:1,20
380:13 Baycrest 121:16 139:13 220:11 317:9 320:4
Bates-stam... 177:20,21 142:9,15 146:14,23 242:1 320:8 321:2
3:9,11,13 178:5,13,17 145:22 147:14,15 372:25 321:5
3:16,18,20 178:19,22 150:24 147:16,16 380:11 326:10,17
3:24 4:1,3,7 179:15,19 160:6 147:24 391:17 326:19,20
4:9,12,14 180:24 185:18 170:8 beyond 136:4 328:24
4:17,19,21 181:3,6,9 204:1 215:2 195:16 big 26:13 329:8,10
4:24 5:2,5,7 181:13,16 217:14 258:1,1 27:1 81:23 334:25
5:11,13,15 182:1 224:1 265:23 299:23 335:8,17
5:18,20,22 Beach 3:23 229:15 279:21 378:15 343:16
6:2,4,7,9,12 101:10 235:19 300:3 bigger 148:20 344:2
6:14,16,18 bears 89:4 282:21 307:10 Bill 3:8,15 4:1 374:21
6:20,23 7:2 240:24 291:22 378:16 4:2,11,16 375:8
7:4,6,8,11 beauty 223:9 320:8 362:5 Bettman 5:4 4:18,20,23 380:13
7:16,18,21 began 108:9 368:7 5:22 6:16 5:15,19 6:8 384:5
43:5 54:4 275:1 390:15 6:18,22 6:15,17,22 Bill's 78:20
59:20 66:19 beginning believed 7:13,18,20 7:15,20 78:21
78:14 89:7 19:17 40:15 217:15 139:25 10:19 14:10 303:20
101:11 108:23 believes 140:4,15,23 14:12 17:25 binder 349:12
104:12 223:24 180:15 141:13 43:3,11,14 biochemical
132:7 272:10 bell 76:14,18 143:22 52:18 66:17 126:4
151:15 begins 55:22 178:11 144:11 67:5 75:1,1 biochemistry
166:17 59:25 262:5 303:3 190:23 75:1 78:1 12:16
179:7 171:13 bench 262:8 191:2,8,18 79:13 80:1 bit 23:15,18
182:13 175:21 262:9,21 191:24 80:3 81:21 24:6 40:3
186:9 176:22 264:14,17 220:2,8 104:11,19 121:4 124:7
200:23 182:20 297:7,21 221:9,14 132:5,16,18 125:22
203:6 183:22 Benchmark 222:14,23 132:25 165:17,25
209:11 206:12 8:8,10 238:6,10 135:7 199:22
213:12 223:25 benefit 135:3 241:2,18 139:15 201:24
220:23 228:8 135:18 242:9 142:17 202:24
222:15 301:24 139:5 243:22,23 170:24 229:11
228:15 302:2 benefiting 248:6 178:10 279:15
233:9 329:14 180:18 251:16,24 179:14 300:25
240:19 336:4 Berland 256:14,17 182:11 372:15
247:25 339:24 353:3,5 256:22 183:24 black 84:8
255:11 361:10 354:1 261:25 189:12,18 85:15
283:6 begun 17:4 Berman 67:6 288:10,18 190:3 306:21
288:11 23:2 Bernie 292:23 200:21 blanket 31:17
301:19 behalf 86:5 150:17 293:6 203:5 block 217:12
308:13 107:2,2 best 9:19,24 294:21 204:14 blood 394:11
318:11 153:24 29:19 30:3 295:1,13 209:9,20 blows 22:10
321:7 322:6 154:6 260:9 31:24 324:20 210:4,5,18 Blumenthal
323:22 260:12 150:16,22 325:1,5 210:18 7:13 143:23
326:12 311:2 150:25 326:11,18 211:2 212:4 373:4
329:1 332:5 behavioral 195:2 328:25 213:8,10,18 Blumenthal's
335:9 339:7 139:4 bet 40:8 329:9 335:7 222:23 373:1
343:11 Belak 229:24 302:10 335:17 236:6 board 3:21
349:16 belief 122:6 Beth 7:5 337:10,12 247:21,24 28:2,9,22
358:5 believe 17:22 349:5,14 337:15,21 248:5,8 29:1,2,5,6
360:22 22:5 57:12 better 25:20 373:6 380:5 250:14 29:11,20,22
374:23 58:9 67:2 35:22 44:25 380:20 255:20 30:5 85:21

612.338.3376
Page 401
85:24 86:2 203:14 175:3,19 329:12 busy 258:12 290:2,3

86:4,6,12 335:20 222:2 331:4,7,13 buy 69:3 298:1,6
86:16,21 bottom 43:13 227:24 BU 49:19 buy-in 59:16 336:21
88:2,7,11 105:6 317:21 50:24 110:1 293:18 342:21
90:8,17,23 151:23 359:13 115:5,8,14 320:21,22 352:24
91:4,9,12 183:20 360:5,6 120:3 B/C 228:24 381:6
92:13,16,21 223:5 371:21 122:25 229:6 calling 34:19
94:16 101:7 233:19 372:11,15 124:10 119:8 168:3
101:18 241:8 248:4 Brent 319:2 160:11,25 C 247:2 339:1
102:14 248:7 Brian 2:9 166:24 C 2:1 63:8 calls 72:2
133:15 326:20 8:15 18:2 167:14,18 140:21 100:18
199:15 332:13 163:25 167:24 191:19 118:21
200:3 258:8 335:19 164:2,6,9 168:13 394:1,1 121:21
269:15 340:18 164:17 169:6,22,24 calendar 122:2,15
270:24 343:15 359:10 176:5 177:9 313:10 142:24
271:7 344:3 361:6 387:1 204:23 Calgary 153:12
283:19,22 365:25 Bridge 2:8 206:20 138:10 207:19
285:11,17 box 94:16 briefly 220:9 207:6 208:3 297:2 314:7 245:11
285:18,24 297:18 bring 51:17 212:23 Calgary's 292:19,20
285:25 boxers 184:10 224:19 298:17 303:5
286:2 154:25 198:21 bucks 298:15 California 348:19
315:13 boxing 199:4,9,16 Buffalo 3:23 101:10 355:6,19
354:5 155:19 200:7 178:22 call 12:18 385:11
355:15,16 brain 18:14 216:20 181:25 22:2 30:19 Calvary
391:9 19:2 21:12 231:11 182:5 34:6 60:19 236:25
boards 35:16 21:18 23:16 bringing build 232:15 60:22,24,25 Campbell 6:3
Bob 115:2 24:4,12,16 168:10 building 61:15 86:12 308:11,23
182:21 25:11,15 198:20 217:12 135:14 337:24
183:5 27:23 28:3 202:16 bullet 62:15 238:25 338:2,14,25
184:15 28:10 29:17 225:12 153:3 239:24 341:13,23
bodies 29:21 30:4 360:16 389:10 240:3 252:8 Campbell's
389:13,23 30:13,19 brings 47:12 bunch 211:24 257:14 341:21
body 121:2,2 31:3,10 broad 15:21 358:17 280:4 Canada 353:8
231:13 32:15,17 16:1 30:20 Burke 17:7 292:19 Canadian
232:14 33:19 49:2 broader 22:16 23:3 294:2 195:20
244:18,23 99:17,21 76:25 156:5 305:13 196:20
BOG 3:19 104:7 115:8 232:24 163:25 307:2 310:8 Canadians
89:5,6 115:25 broadly 25:24 164:2,6,9 315:19 296:21
101:17 116:14 brochures 164:12,17 317:2 candor 69:15
284:25 119:4 147:20 256:16 319:18 cannon 247:3
boldface 121:19 broke 175:19 258:9,16 320:17 247:22
91:22 122:23 brought 44:8 259:2 260:3 371:5 cap 326:23
boldfaced 126:4,11 63:24,24 260:5,6,9 called 14:14 327:12,17
187:6 180:17,22 81:1 145:21 260:11 17:25 24:23 327:19
Boogaard 182:21 198:20 359:10 46:2 131:2 333:3
10:18 11:6 183:6 391:7 364:15,19 131:4 168:4 capable
11:7,12 190:16 Brown 5:17 364:22 174:17,19 333:23
229:25 204:2 234:4 204:15 365:3 387:1 177:19,21 capacities
230:1 234:16 255:9,17 Burke's 183:23 164:4
boss 322:25 236:4 259:3 Brown's 251:22 199:15 caps 303:21
323:2 259:11 204:19 252:2 200:3 captured
Boston brains 169:11 Bruce 241:18 258:15 219:12 195:10
108:10 185:4,6 241:20 business 237:4 captures
115:5 break 33:23 Bruins 335:20 292:3 239:19 339:18
183:11 126:20 Bryce 326:23 321:17 254:24 carbon
184:6 172:16 327:4 357:21 270:6 290:1 104:21

612.338.3376
Page 402
186:20 cause 116:16 chagrined 292:15 260:11 374:4,10

309:9 caused 245:8 396:7 choice 250:1 clarification
carboning 207:13 chain 43:11 changing choices 35:22 100:6
179:14 causes 229:9 77:17 choose class 12:12
carbon-ing 109:24 243:20 105:23 150:21 clean 380:4
60:1 236:15 255:17 218:23 215:17,20 383:24
card 366:19 causing 301:23 257:15,18 chooses 384:1
Cardinals 160:12,13 302:23 characteriz... 303:24 clear 52:24
14:5 224:21 318:19 78:18 130:8 354:25 53:12 54:1
care 99:20 CBA 262:2 321:1,15,25 130:10 chosen 88:9 94:25
146:11 354:16 326:17 169:21 130:21 95:11
147:8 148:1 355:22 chairman 190:9 Chris 169:1 115:13
323:19 356:2 86:6,11 348:24 chronic 116:2 303:22
350:16 cc 67:5 challenge characterize 116:16 cleared
career 206:4 cc'ing 104:22 333:17 109:1 214:1 119:6 269:24
217:21 222:23 change 71:20 214:20 154:10 286:13
careful central 333:2 71:25 72:1 279:16 155:1 298:22
243:25 333:2 93:22 94:16 297:10,11 156:20 clearly 30:15
carefully centralized 95:4,7,8,13 297:12 202:22 225:1
11:20 97:24 377:7 95:16,19 characteriz... 203:15 clients
99:12 378:25 96:6 97:4 136:24 chronologi... 150:25
196:16 certain 19:6 97:12,18 characteriz... 93:6 climate
280:1 29:11 34:12 98:7,7,10 207:23 chronology 212:21
carrying 85:20 87:4 98:25 99:6 characteriz... 212:11,12 Clinic 330:12
332:14 87:5 173:16 99:9,10,12 235:22 Chubb 373:23 382:20,25
cascade 216:19 168:23 charge 17:10 374:10 clinical
126:4 287:12 176:14 219:19 Chuck 302:3 113:20
case 10:17,25 334:18 217:5 256:15 302:5,5 160:21
11:6,7,12 342:15 291:17 Charles 2:3 Cifu 235:5,6,7 163:14
14:4 144:2 352:8 354:11,17 342:11 235:8 253:12,15
144:24 388:22 354:18,22 charting circulate 258:12
145:3,22 392:7,10 354:25 237:17 104:1 261:7,8
148:7 certainly 386:1 Chartoff 7:6 circulated 276:12,18
149:20 68:23 80:3 changed 349:5,15 188:19 clip 299:21
150:14 86:23 88:1 25:22 26:18 352:19 196:9 clips 290:15
151:6 186:6 110:16 26:19,21 chase 302:8 211:25 291:13
206:2,2 114:1 59:2 64:24 chasing 361:16 305:19
248:16 117:15 106:19 145:23 circumstance 307:1
297:16 121:9 130:8 check 90:3 281:20 cloak 171:6
301:3 370:9 158:19 212:15,21 checked 290:5 172:25
374:18 202:8 212:22 297:18 292:13 close 21:11
379:5 395:2 207:24 236:23 checking 327:13 62:12 78:7
cases 214:17 251:15 264:24 305:4 333:25 79:11 84:5
Casson 364:1 257:8 267:13,13 checklist circumstan... 116:3 129:7
casual 389:24 278:19 267:23 368:17 84:3,17 132:24
causal 185:9 379:6 269:12 chemistry 290:4 291:8 169:7
185:14,17 382:19 344:19 12:19 291:14,16 180:19
224:20 certainty changes cherry-pick... 299:5 184:20
231:17,20 31:1 172:7 72:11 73:11 363:24 304:23 187:9 210:6
231:23 385:15 94:22 Chip 17:7 327:24 214:2
236:14 certify 394:5 113:21 156:5 392:7 223:12
389:14 394:10 133:16 251:22 claim 373:24 244:1
causation 396:3 172:8 252:2,7 claimed 248:14
110:8 cessation 173:17 256:16 337:3 249:22
causative 250:24 174:9 285:9 258:5 260:3 claims 373:14 256:3,25
110:12 cetera 224:6 285:11 260:5,6,9 373:19 298:23

612.338.3376
Page 403
299:4 274:21 coincidence 144:18 224:1,4,6,6 373:5 380:5

302:12,16 279:1 327:1 149:10 224:6 380:11
308:25 289:19,23 Coley 338:11 157:13 249:19 381:24
326:25 291:6 292:5 338:16 162:1,3 329:15,16 391:17
328:2 331:9 293:25 341:13 195:16 329:17 commissio...
340:13 294:22 342:4 205:20 376:1 239:7
363:6,17,18 295:14 Colin 6:3 218:25 commence... committed
375:25 296:9 308:11,23 231:13 22:15 161:2
closed 375:24 302:10,14 337:24 249:22 commencing committee
closing 304:12 collaboration 263:25 1:18 25:7 37:16
149:23 306:4 365:19 264:1 291:7 comment 37:19 200:4
club 14:23 310:11 collaborative 293:22 69:10 196:5 257:13
15:20 21:25 312:14 180:14 311:9,25 199:17,19 346:23
85:25 86:3 328:12 192:17 312:5 205:22 350:23
86:5 162:12 340:16 collaborati... 324:24 343:17 352:4
162:21,25 369:10 57:18 70:18 357:12 348:12 362:19
238:24 376:18 147:1 370:2 commenting committees
275:13 378:25 colleagues 386:14 196:6 18:5 242:18
277:2 387:16,18 286:6 388:18 204:14 242:19
290:19,25 392:4 collect comes 134:2 comments common
291:25 club's 14:25 276:10 149:4 262:8 88:10 101:2
294:8 303:10 collected 262:21 196:13,16 108:19
297:21 314:5,11 276:16 282:10 338:12 188:11
298:10,10 club-by-club collection 299:16,19 361:17 190:7
302:15 328:4 19:9 356:18 362:16,17 276:25
303:5 clue 336:12 collective comfort COMMISSI... 310:18
305:14 clutch 279:24 15:8,10,12 369:13 395:25 communica...
310:24 clutching 15:13,15 382:6 commissio... 303:11
312:13 279:24 16:6 94:23 comfortable 7:13 15:19 338:22
313:8,23 280:22 167:23 12:2 31:16 140:1,4 communica...
319:15 coach 314:11 355:12 32:11 59:14 141:1 95:6 140:8
327:11,14 314:13 collectively 72:22 143:22 140:11
328:7 coaches 27:9 152:23 158:25 144:10 275:5
329:15 152:13 226:4 276:17 190:23 297:23,24
337:19,21 307:4 253:21 310:24 191:2,8,18 communica...
368:18 309:25 278:24 369:12 191:23 19:18 22:4
387:16,18 313:5 354:15 382:15 192:1 220:2 140:10
387:18 coaching colloquial coming 44:24 220:7,10 202:7 292:6
clubs 14:24 174:20 22:2 46:21,24 221:8,14 297:21
15:9,21 code 347:24 colloquially 70:19 139:2 222:22 298:8
44:24 86:2 coexisting 49:8 131:25 139:5,7 238:5,10 302:11
93:19 94:1 49:15 colloquy 160:17 241:2 242:1 303:13
94:21 95:4 cognitive 332:24 163:14 242:8 355:7
95:6,12,18 55:9 57:13 Columbia 190:15 243:22 communica...
97:11 77:22 82:24 219:13 191:22 245:4,8 19:16 21:24
134:16 116:23 combatants 195:15 251:16,24 142:16,25
139:1,7 235:21 347:25 198:4 256:13,17 146:4
141:6,21 265:14 combination 199:20 256:22 303:17
152:11 266:2 188:14 208:25 261:25 362:1
157:14 366:14 275:6 244:13,15 292:23 community
215:11,16 367:15 come 15:23 244:15 293:6 157:2
238:24 cognizant 20:18,19 311:24 294:21 366:17
244:22 192:24 30:24 41:5 358:11 295:1,13 Comp 139:3
247:8,12 cohort 112:12 46:12 47:3 comma 62:22 324:20 companion
253:6 cohorts 68:1 59:11 70:20 204:4 325:1,5 151:13
272:19 111:3,23 141:19,20 223:11 372:25 152:16,21

612.338.3376
Page 404
307:7 completion concern 179:24 132:14 262:22

comparative 101:4 29:17 53:23 182:3 193:9 133:2,19,25 263:9,20
130:4 compliance 55:14 57:22 202:1 238:8 140:6 141:2 264:4 266:8
comparator 292:19 65:17 238:15 146:7,8 267:16,17
68:1 305:5 159:22,23 242:24 151:11,12 267:20,21
compare 320:23 160:14 376:5 378:3 152:7,24 267:25
362:13 321:3 163:9 378:8 156:9 157:6 268:6,10,12
compared 325:21 216:16 concern/b... 157:7,9 268:22
111:22 336:24 232:18 303:21 159:18 269:1,20,24
112:7,12 377:10 243:9 concluded 160:15,18 270:1,6,18
113:11 complicated 244:22 133:8 226:9 160:22 270:25
114:10 72:15 255:23 concludes 161:23 272:1
130:3 243:7 252:25 289:8 393:1 162:2,3,9 273:15
270:9 286:3 complicati... 328:18 conclusion 163:10,17 274:2 276:2
comparison 64:3 376:2,9 56:5 100:18 171:24 276:6,7,8
67:21 comply 390:23 246:21 176:11 276:23
compelled 292:24 concerned 256:20 177:4,12 277:18
229:16,21 295:14 50:5 53:10 355:20 178:24 279:4,9,17
compelling 313:21 124:5,13 conclusions 180:3 279:19,20
184:11 314:5 136:13 236:11 181:22 280:14,16
230:4 325:14 161:20 248:24 182:2 280:17,20
compensated component 162:3 256:4,5,6 186:17 280:23
261:1 71:25 167:24 363:1,8 188:4 192:3 281:5,19
Compensat... 256:21 171:22 concussed 192:9,19 282:2,12
373:14,19 262:10 180:6 215:6 79:12 193:18 283:11,13
373:23 265:9 379:9 215:16 329:18 194:7,20 285:2,22
374:4,10 components 216:14 concussion 195:1,4,6 287:8,14,21
Comper 31:11 35:8 277:13 1:7 3:14,19 195:10 288:17
61:19 63:10 265:13 289:13 5:9 8:4 17:2 196:5,18 289:15
63:17 64:10 266:5 299:6 25:4 28:17 197:6 291:1,7,11
66:5,13 271:23 305:19 32:23 33:4 198:19,23 291:14,17
69:25 275:12 390:21 33:10,11,16 199:18 292:14
162:11 278:3 concerning 33:24 34:7 206:25 294:16
183:16,17 376:25 22:18 28:3 34:17,20,21 207:2,9,10 295:25
198:25 composite 28:10 30:12 34:21,24 207:24 296:19
competition 358:19 35:23 74:13 35:5,9,11 213:22,23 297:6,15
346:23 Compound 74:25 76:22 35:14 37:4 215:18 299:13,15
350:23 172:15 77:21 80:22 37:5 44:19 216:6 299:20
352:3 344:21 126:3 45:8 46:1,1 218:18 300:2
competitive comprehen... 132:23 46:5,13 220:15 305:12
244:21 46:15 142:17 55:8 57:19 223:19 307:5,20
compilation 273:23 159:14 61:1,18 231:9 233:4 309:6
272:8 274:1 178:13 66:16 69:14 233:15 311:14
compiling 293:16 181:9 75:5,11 235:24 312:1,20
245:19 377:6 228:11 76:22 80:11 237:25 313:5,7,21
complain con 44:10 229:12,15 89:4,6 238:23 320:6
260:24 concept 59:2 251:6 269:1 90:12,14 239:6,11 323:11
complaining 59:15 83:9 296:1 92:2,16,18 244:19 326:25
141:21 153:14 299:25 100:2,7 245:1,20,22 327:3,15,22
complete 184:22 320:3 364:9 101:16,25 251:2 252:5 328:9
111:8 392:2 198:4 371:7 103:12 252:18 332:19
completed 267:12 concerns 104:2 253:6 335:24
246:12 concepts 57:21 59:9 106:25 255:24 336:14
completely 59:5 84:18,25 126:5,6,9 256:11 339:16
57:4 75:5 conceptual 160:23 127:4,6 258:25 340:9,24,25
149:18 65:2 162:4 129:14,22 260:7 342:15,17

612.338.3376
Page 405
342:19 316:9,12,16 231:23 212:24 19:23 20:5 226:6

361:3,7,10 330:18 235:24 387:12 34:14 37:5 continuum
364:2,9 344:13 382:20 considerati... 47:15 83:5 105:18
365:10 352:8 363:3 390:15,23 187:4 191:4 85:3,17 contradisti...
368:12 373:14,25 connections considered 105:6 361:21
369:6 371:7 374:3 185:9 92:5 106:25 contrary
382:21 390:18 224:19 considering 125:1 132:3 148:12
385:8 389:6 392:12,20 236:14 129:5 133:18 control 49:14
395:2 concussive consensus 130:14 135:8 136:2 50:1 64:2,3
concussions 109:24 104:4 110:2 284:6 148:3 155:3 72:16 79:23
26:12,12 265:10,11 110:6,7 consisted 157:5,7 105:15,23
27:9 31:6 267:1 148:5 157:2 319:17 161:23 179:25
31:25 32:22 280:24 157:8 177:5 consistent 163:16 185:7
35:10 45:11 305:23 207:12,25 89:1 123:14 164:17,22 223:11
60:21 73:3 condition 224:22 271:8 176:5 177:1 controls
73:4,6 117:17 267:14,16 285:21 177:1,11,12 116:7 210:8
85:22 92:10 118:14,16 267:18 consistently 184:14 controversial
101:1 102:9 119:5 268:24 186:1,5 189:22 70:15 363:1
104:10 122:21 269:4 constant 194:9 363:8
109:23 123:18 270:10,22 311:1 215:21 convenient
123:3 124:3 conditions 271:2,9 constantly 225:24 327:1
124:22 121:18,25 285:22,22 146:21,25 239:13 convening
125:4,4,11 173:17 341:6 351:6 304:15 242:14 61:1
125:14,17 conference 366:17 312:6 259:12 conversation
125:22,23 60:19,24 368:8 390:2 constituents 279:14 18:16 51:16
126:3 134:4 358:13 consent 376:19 327:5 345:7 63:20 65:20
134:10,14 conferring 68:19 69:7 constraints 355:3 83:15 103:2
147:12 178:18 193:1 10:6 356:12,14 108:7 125:8
148:1 confidence 257:20 construct 357:3,5,20 140:10,18
152:13 369:13 355:18,24 118:19 357:25 167:5 172:6
160:18 confidentia... consented 131:5 368:20 173:11
163:8,24 258:24 228:25 constructive continue 190:6 206:7
177:14 configurati... consequence 311:21 50:15,19,20 206:9,11
185:10 35:16 97:12 363:13 312:25 51:16,23,23 220:14
194:22 confines consequen... constructiv... 51:24 82:6 242:23
195:2 197:1 100:20 20:4 22:9 305:7 83:20 251:12
198:11 confirmed 163:11 consult 147:17 294:25
207:13 117:10 187:8 208:8 378:11 193:12 302:4
208:5 248:23 223:10 consultants 206:14 310:22,25
215:14 334:1 224:4 226:7 89:25 127:2 218:7 317:19
217:4,6,18 conflict 378:9 234:4,16 consulted 230:22 318:25
217:19 confrontati... 344:24 42:1 145:13 249:21 325:5 342:7
224:21 70:21 363:2 contact 325:20 conversati...
228:22 confused conservative 120:23 continued 50:14,16
239:20 41:19 55:1 49:25 154:11 82:17 85:6 63:23 65:16
240:5 64:19 conservati... contacts 85:9 98:14 75:16 83:17
254:22 Congress 124:3 121:1 108:15 84:7,8,14
260:13,22 363:19 Conshohoc... contains 109:16 85:3,6,9
273:2 connection 2:9 362:17 231:7 109:3 157:9
278:21,23 19:12 consider contemplat... 246:24 163:23
286:9 112:17,21 51:24 92:3 77:18 274:16 190:1,4
300:16 152:15 100:13 197:23 306:1,2 197:22
307:19 156:12 103:1 223:16 continuing 206:20
310:14,17 185:14,17 109:18 content 145:7 108:24 293:11
311:15 224:20 110:22 283:22 190:1,4 325:10
312:17 231:18,20 133:15 context 15:14 212:22,24 350:22,25

612.338.3376
Page 406
352:2 74:22 78:25 262:25 counsel 8:11 created 30:15 131:11

conversion 79:5 80:13 264:6,9,10 16:13,20 305:11 135:10
96:1 85:23 86:2 264:11,12 370:5,13,22 306:24 137:5 141:9
converted 86:3,8 264:15 371:3 307:1 141:12
250:5 87:21 90:12 266:24 386:12,25 311:13 153:4,14,14
convey 87:13 92:3,11,12 267:4 268:9 389:3,18 creates 223:2 154:2 157:4
87:14 92:15 94:22 269:24 counting creating 157:6,10
conveyed 95:4,13,25 272:4 274:2 60:12 159:23 160:3,19
243:14 96:8,9,22 278:2,11,13 couple 81:2 305:18 161:3,11,20
298:7 102:9 278:22 208:6 credence 162:5 163:2
conveying 104:22 279:4 224:15 185:13 163:12
90:4 310:17 107:10 283:15 310:10 crisper 150:8 166:24
Copper 45:19 110:22 285:15 360:4 criteria 168:14
45:20 113:2 287:3,8 362:16,17 306:10 169:12,23
copy 104:21 115:22 288:20,23 372:4,6 critically 177:1
145:18 117:18 289:6,7,11 couple-of-... 324:15 184:17,20
186:20 119:15 290:20 179:11 criticism 185:10
383:24 120:1,11,22 292:25 182:19 338:25 186:2
384:1 122:1 294:23 247:19 385:8 190:17
copying 129:14,20 300:6,11 couple-page criticisms 197:1 204:4
179:14 129:24 302:7 240:23 149:10 204:7
241:2 130:4 307:22 couple-pag... 196:19 205:18,18
303:20 132:24 309:7 339:15 341:25 206:10
309:9,10 135:4 318:23 course 23:14 criticize 207:13
corner 137:10 319:2,6,11 24:9,19 149:5 208:4 224:6
261:22 139:22 319:12 65:20 85:24 criticized 224:12,17
corners 99:5 140:2,7,21 321:11,20 86:19,22 148:19 224:21
corporate 153:2,4,5 322:3,13 156:5,6 173:15 229:12,15
86:9 153:21,22 323:2 169:12 crude 193:7 229:15
correct 13:8 156:9 164:7 325:15 223:6 crudely 78:7 230:21
14:14 16:2 169:5 328:15 249:14 79:10,13 231:23
16:21,22 179:16 332:16,21 321:16 80:1,6 81:9 232:1,18,22
17:2 24:10 183:1,12,23 332:24 338:13 81:13 212:4 234:9,13
24:24,25 185:15 335:21,25 377:9 212:7,17 389:10,12
25:3,5,6,9 187:4,16 336:9,10,14 379:10 225:10 389:15,25
27:15,17 194:22 338:14 courses CTE 42:5 390:11,19
28:3,4,7,13 201:4 340:5,20 12:13,16,19 44:13 49:7 390:21
33:8,13,19 204:23 344:20 12:23 13:10 49:17 50:10 culminated
33:25 35:17 206:15 347:14,15 13:13,16 73:15 74:4 198:7
35:19,20 209:23 350:4 353:9 court 1:1,19 74:15,17 culmination
36:15 37:1 213:21 353:21 8:9,21 75:17 77:9 252:14
37:3,8,9 214:21 362:19 197:11 107:20,21 cultural
39:14 41:9 215:1,5,22 368:2,4,6 cover 59:25 107:23 147:18
43:12 48:11 221:9,16,19 373:1 375:5 134:13 108:1 cumulative
54:10 55:6 221:20 375:11,19 152:20 109:18,24 217:24,24
55:10,16 222:23 381:7 249:20,23 111:2,7,11 217:25
60:14 61:5 232:18 391:23 358:16 113:2,6,10 curiosity
61:8 62:12 233:16,20 392:13,17 359:3,4 113:13,18 48:25
62:23 63:5 238:23 396:4 co-chairs 113:20 curious 150:5
63:6,12,14 239:9,10 corrections 80:18 114:3,9,20 262:16
63:15 67:2 241:12,19 395:7 396:7 crammed 114:22 361:20
67:6,11,18 242:6,11 correctly 193:6 116:7 current 46:19
67:23 68:19 243:14,22 187:10 create 180:6 121:18,25 55:25 56:3
69:3 70:24 248:6 251:4 261:12 239:13 122:22 56:6,9,11
71:9,13,21 251:7 correlates 305:13 123:18 56:24 57:14
73:15,16 262:19,20 352:16 381:25 130:20 57:24 58:10

612.338.3376
Page 407
59:10 65:8 90:24 91:11 Daniel 76:13 73:14,20,25 dated 3:8,15 343:3
75:8 84:19 104:12,19 Danov 318:23 74:11,17 3:17 4:3,6,9 Dave 5:12
84:24 91:6 132:6,16,18 319:1 78:17,25 4:11,14,16 24:20 26:9
131:17 135:22 Darren 89:11 4:18,21,23 34:2,3,6
134:17 136:9,13 250:16,20 101:15 5:2,4,7,17 94:5 240:17
135:11 139:15 data 19:9,9 104:15 5:19,22 6:1 358:10,16
146:11 142:17 38:18 50:19 109:22 6:4,6,9,11 David 235:5
154:16,22 170:24 56:9 72:9 129:15 6:14,16,18 326:21
159:1 163:1 179:14 72:21 96:3 132:10,14 6:20,22 7:1 382:22
170:4 213:2 182:11,25 96:7,10,18 151:19,23 7:4,6,11,14 day 149:13
215:22 189:6,14 96:20 97:3 153:25 7:15,18,20 149:13
216:14 200:22 97:16 98:5 155:16 43:4 60:7 192:7
230:12,14 203:5 98:8 99:2,7 166:20 60:13 66:18 258:18
230:16 204:14 99:12 179:10 67:4 78:13 267:20
262:23,24 209:10,20 147:16,19 182:16,22 104:19 268:22
274:19 210:18,22 172:1 186:12,16 132:6,18 299:19
352:4 211:4 212:4 174:10 187:24 166:16 395:22
currents 212:7,14 176:14 198:8 179:6 396:15
64:21 213:9,11,18 177:10 199:19 182:11 days 16:5,8
cut 140:19 222:23 186:17 201:1 186:8 267:1 276:6
cutting 225:9 241:2 200:9 203:10 200:22 276:8
282:25 247:21,25 228:21 209:14,17 203:5 299:19
302:8 248:6 230:12 213:15 208:16 day-in 47:1
CWG 3:10 249:17,23 231:13 221:1 209:10 day-out 47:1
54:2,9 92:6 255:20 232:5,15 222:18 213:9,11 day-to-day
102:4 181:8 269:7 283:4 237:4,8,14 228:19 220:22 26:22 46:19
184:12 283:11 238:9,23 233:13 221:5 DD 358:12
cynical 288:19 242:20 239:22 222:14 dead 107:9
325:22 302:24 246:13,14 240:22 228:8,14 deal 46:22,22
326:6 303:20 249:15 247:19 240:25 46:25 55:24
C-A-S-S-O-N 316:20,25 251:6,6,7 248:3 255:10,18 242:11
364:2 317:14 252:12,13 255:14 283:5,12 248:22
C-I-F-U 235:5 320:4,10 252:20,22 283:9,15 288:10,19 350:18
321:2,6 257:12,20 288:15 301:18,25 dealing 18:9
D 323:14 257:21,22 301:22 308:12,18 44:22
D 2:9 3:1 326:10,17 257:25 302:18 318:10,15 125:10
8:23 140:21 326:19,20 258:3 308:8,17 321:6,25 307:18
191:19 326:22 276:10 318:14 322:5 352:21
daily 147:22 327:2 280:1,18 321:10 323:21 deals 56:14
192:10 328:24 282:6 322:10 324:4 153:4
Dalia 288:19 329:8,10 344:15 323:25 326:11 268:25
Daly 3:8,15 335:8,17 363:22,22 326:15 328:25 322:12
4:1,3,11,16 337:11 363:24 328:11 329:7 332:4 329:11
4:18,21,23 343:16 374:2 329:4 332:8 332:12 381:2
5:15,19 6:9 354:23 376:15 335:12,17 335:8 339:6 dealt 30:18
6:15,17,22 355:14 382:13 339:10 343:10 36:6,7 52:2
7:15,20 356:6,7 database 343:14 349:15,21 57:17 217:1
14:10,12 374:22 77:13,19 349:19 360:21 238:2
17:25 43:4 375:8,21 217:21 354:21 361:5 373:6 274:21
43:12,15 380:13 237:16 358:8 374:22 354:2
52:16,18 384:5 246:18 360:25 380:20 Dear 375:16
66:18 67:5 Daly's 101:20 330:4 366:12 381:1 384:6 death 69:14
74:24 76:21 303:1 date 1:19 373:9 375:1 394:14 73:15 74:11
77:21 78:6 327:25 43:8,10,23 380:24 dates 74:18 184:14
79:10 80:22 dangerous 54:7 59:24 384:10 123:24 193:18
81:8,12,18 158:1 60:2 66:22 395:4 daughters deaths

612.338.3376
Page 408
229:23 369:3 demands 10:21 11:6 19:12,25 131:10

Dec 3:20 89:7 decline 16:10 11:8,16 164:13 135:10
December 217:24 dementia 171:2 165:9 137:1,5
3:23 7:4 228:22 53:2,6 227:14,20 232:24 141:9
73:20 74:18 decreased 70:24 71:8 deposition 233:1 230:20
74:18 89:5 26:7 96:4 107:10,22 1:15 8:3 333:23 366:13
101:10,17 121:11 114:19 11:5,10,12 387:2 determining
101:19 decreases 128:16 11:13 20:13 descriptions 39:23 130:2
107:20 84:23 129:7 130:3 369:17 109:3 283:21
129:17,18 dedicated 130:21 370:8 deserved develop
132:18 26:11 131:16 371:12 379:8 35:21
134:23 dedication 132:1,23 393:1 deserving 114:12
135:1 138:5 377:25 136:11 depositions 382:10,15 118:16
140:1,5 deem 297:14 138:11 10:13 11:22 design 38:17 119:15
141:13 deeper 139:20 159:8 370:9 42:9 106:5 139:19
189:19 299:12 140:24 depression 106:12 188:15
226:1 deeply 141:15 224:6,12 181:15 234:18
343:10 346:18 189:17 deputy 16:13 designated developed
345:23,25 defend 224:5,12 16:20 197:10 206:17,21
391:9,9 349:24 225:8 Derek 10:18 designation 264:13
decide 73:2 352:6 demonstra... 229:25 333:17 371:13
199:9 306:9 Defendants 95:23 describe designed 382:7
decided 42:6 2:13 denied 17:14 32:19 56:5 67:14 developing
42:9 47:19 Defense 199:24 62:16 67:16 71:7 113:10
72:11 105:1 235:17 Dennis 27:20 194:23 106:20 114:9 116:2
105:12 defensive 215:3 239:15 179:25 139:20
108:4,18 205:18 216:16 240:9 201:13,15 204:3
131:20 206:9 261:17,21 262:11 desire 305:12 development
184:9 deficiencies 262:8 263:4 266:4,4 despite 121:18,25
189:20 50:3 297:3,5,14 281:6 287:20 122:22
231:10 deficits 55:9 297:18 286:10 382:11 123:18
283:25 define 59:7 298:20,21 307:10 detailing developme...
290:18 definite denominator described 381:15 181:8
356:25 109:2 280:4,12 19:19 20:9 details 65:10 Devils 314:16
375:2 definitely 282:20 21:8,16 65:18 72:15 315:10,22
deciding 64:17 dense 366:3 32:15 189:7 230:24 316:8,15
71:25 216:7 230:18 Dep 395:4 218:11 284:8 317:1 318:6
decision definitive department 221:12 346:18 318:16
97:22 107:5 46:17 13:22 28:14 236:7 detect 334:19 319:1,4
192:15 degree 12:7 30:17 31:15 240:12 deterioration 320:4,5,9
199:4 delay 261:2 31:19 32:7 261:2 274:6 71:20,23 320:11
262:19 368:19 235:17 296:11 determinat... 321:3
266:22,25 delays 251:5 244:8,11 326:3 97:11 284:7 337:16
271:23 deliver departments 363:17 determinat... devil's 65:9
357:23 387:14 15:23 375:25 49:7 72:14
388:21 delivered depend 39:9 describes determine DF 302:4,5
391:2 20:6 88:19 106:11 154:1 diagnose
decisions delivering depending 211:3 366:5 156:19 44:25 47:2
38:7,24 387:25 26:23 38:20 392:12 169:11 47:2 124:2
39:6,8 DelNegro 38:23 39:5 describing 231:20 diagnosed
72:22 73:2 335:20 depends 19:24 31:3 333:21 44:12 46:4
109:2 336:18 72:13 73:11 221:11 determined 73:15 74:14
260:22 DelNegro's Deponent 247:21 44:13 49:16 77:8 107:9
261:10 336:4 395:5,20 302:24 75:18 77:9 217:17,20
276:19 demanded 396:1 309:21 113:6 217:23
306:13,16 193:22 deposed description 130:20 232:1

612.338.3376
Page 409
267:19 252:17 disclose 293:7 93:2,5 distinguish...

268:5,8,21 266:5 273:8 161:12,14 294:22 108:9,15,23 120:7 179:4
269:20 355:11,13 discuss 34:2 295:14 109:16 distraction...
270:18 392:12 141:12 302:19 110:2 263:10,12
276:2,23 differentiat... 157:10 317:9 126:13 268:17
277:18,20 281:21 187:20,22 330:23 145:5 157:5 291:23
299:13,15 differently 188:7 189:6 341:6 180:21 distribute
300:16 20:23 23:20 189:11 354:19,20 198:2 211:4 238:23
diagnoses 73:5 83:22 190:5 192:5 390:11 212:21,23 239:5
328:4,5 119:2 218:5 220:7 discusses 218:8 distributed
diagnosing 219:14 229:7 179:15 223:22 238:25
260:20 differs 126:4 230:10 discussing 226:6 272:13,24
diagnosis difficult 26:6 234:15 15:14 71:11 270:20 273:10,18
44:23 62:21 205:22 248:11 82:7 92:17 277:7 274:5
74:4,17 225:5 259:21 102:4,25 286:23 distribution
111:11 248:22 285:6,17 129:12 323:7,10 272:19
114:5 258:17 286:6,20 146:3 346:21 DISTRICT 1:1
131:14,22 292:21 300:2,21 188:21 348:4 1:2
195:7 306:14 301:4 189:12 381:23 dived 230:24
263:20 312:18 316:20,25 203:1 224:7 382:12 divulge 240:6
264:3 difficulty 317:14 224:11 385:4,19 doctor 114:2
299:20,22 180:2 375:10 251:15 disease 44:15 126:2,10
327:4,17 dig 299:11 385:21 271:20 44:16 113:4 263:13,17
328:1 Diplomat discussed 275:15,16 114:18 263:23,24
dialogue 5:10 233:7 21:6 36:24 286:18 204:3,6 266:15
193:12 directed 37:2 41:9 287:1 diseases 286:14
224:2 367:20 61:8 79:19 342:14 112:20 287:22
died 73:18,25 direction 81:3 83:3,5 375:7 114:13,17 330:11,19
74:1,14 85:11,12 85:19 105:1 discussion 115:1 234:8 331:7
107:18 105:10 105:11 58:12 65:2 dismissing 333:16,19
differ 125:4 230:3 341:8 125:15 65:3,21 205:17 333:21
difference 367:14 129:25 67:8 79:17 dismissive 335:4 336:8
56:20 57:17 368:8 136:1 80:2 105:14 78:7 79:10 336:12,12
213:1 directions 145:15 106:24,25 79:14 80:1 336:16
differences 61:4 62:7 166:21,23 107:4,5 80:4,7 81:9 337:1,8,12
147:19 64:18 140:2 178:23,24 126:8 81:13 212:4 342:13
different 140:5 181:24 140:14 212:7,18 doctors 19:8
16:10 26:17 directly 46:11 183:10 156:14 225:10 35:4 37:16
30:16 31:14 291:19 184:25 188:6 disparaging 46:15,20,24
33:17 57:11 303:10 188:12 189:20 205:17 47:9 72:18
61:22 64:18 310:9,9 189:16 201:18 disparate 75:6 94:9
73:2,7,7,7 311:10 190:13 208:10 99:8 107:1,2
83:8,8,13 337:7,9 191:5,8,11 210:1 213:6 disputes 108:17
83:13,15,18 director 202:23 213:20 15:20 131:21
83:21,24 76:15 347:9 207:24 214:1,20 disseminate 133:9 147:2
106:14 347:14 211:13 223:14 239:5 162:13,21
114:6 116:9 348:5,16 212:25 277:9,12,19 disseminated 162:23,24
120:4 123:4 Directors 216:25 306:1 348:3 268:1 188:6 190:2
124:12 285:18 220:9 380:8 302:19 190:3,7
129:19 disagree 21:7 224:16 discussions distinct 120:5 198:1,23
162:20 disagreem... 239:2 251:2 22:22 34:10 distinction 244:15
164:3 192:8 330:24 270:13 50:21 58:15 81:24 95:9 258:19
212:20 discipline 275:10,13 64:13 70:15 177:9 266:16
216:24 351:4 285:1,3 70:16 74:13 distinctions 272:20
236:23 disciplined 290:13 75:13 77:20 177:18 275:6,9
244:20 313:20 292:23 82:18 91:18 284:25 291:15

612.338.3376
Page 410
292:9,18 307:7,8 184:17,20 48:10,14 216:14 234:25

306:18,19 318:7,15,21 184:24 60:1,1 63:2 221:7,8,19 Dreger
306:23 322:23 185:1,12 63:16 67:9 223:1 250:16,20
307:3 329:7 188:24 67:12,19,24 224:10 Drs 221:18
310:12 331:25 189:7 192:3 68:17 69:21 226:22 dry 383:4
311:16 332:2,11 204:21 69:25 71:6 227:3,5,8 Dryden 5:12
369:1 334:24 210:16 76:13 77:11 227:10,17 24:20 26:9
387:18 339:20 211:20 80:13,21 228:9,11 34:2,3,6
doctor's 349:20 229:16,21 81:8,25 229:7 237:9 94:5 240:17
263:23 358:19 231:19 103:6,8,15 237:13,15 358:10,17
doctrine 361:3,12,21 235:23 103:19,22 237:17,24 duly 8:24
202:11 381:12 246:14 104:21,22 241:1 243:1 394:7
document 383:18 247:6 252:8 104:25 243:11,21 duties 15:5
3:10 22:6 384:21 253:21 105:22 245:2,7,13 250:24
43:9 46:15 documents 254:19,22 106:5,11,18 258:9,15,16 duty 100:14
54:2,15,17 7:8 20:15 257:21 108:3 115:2 259:2,21 D-O-D-I-C-K
54:20,21,25 20:24 21:2 284:4 286:8 115:7,16,18 301:24 382:23
58:1,9 21:4 22:8 286:8 115:24 302:24
64:23 67:3 149:4 294:16 116:10 303:19 E
76:3,19 240:10,12 296:12 117:6 119:3 309:3,7 E 2:1,1 3:1
78:9 89:3 266:20 305:4 310:8 121:20,24 318:20 8:23 175:12
89:12,13,16 272:24 313:9 122:7 123:9 330:8,23,24 175:12
89:20,21 273:3,14,18 319:10 123:16 331:3,15 394:1,1
104:18 274:4 276:4 320:7,13 124:18,21 332:15 earful 338:20
105:8,20 278:20 328:13,16 124:24 334:21 earlier 85:19
132:13,20 321:13 328:19 125:3,10,16 335:3,4 96:17
151:22,25 335:6 358:4 336:13 125:21 364:1,6,8 159:21
152:4,16,22 369:21 346:19 126:14,25 364:15,16 188:18
167:11 370:11,15 365:4,9 126:25 364:19,20 192:17
179:1,12 370:15 376:23 156:18 364:22,23 201:3
182:20 371:16,17 379:10 158:21 365:3 203:21
186:15,22 371:18 Don 302:6 161:1 368:24 211:22
191:6 dodge 205:1 303:1,8 162:10,10 369:7,11 212:25
194:17 205:3,12,14 335:20 162:11,11 375:2,11,13 261:2 278:9
195:24 Dodick donated 162:11,14 378:10,18 278:20
196:2,4 382:22,23 182:21 166:24 379:12 294:13
199:3 doing 23:9 183:6 167:14,17 381:4 360:14
203:17 42:16 45:5 Donny 302:6 169:19 383:12 373:3
205:5 52:9 58:7 dose 124:14 170:23,23 384:11,23 early 78:1
208:13 67:20 68:6 doubt 24:15 171:6,21 385:4 253:12
209:17 75:4,25 27:22 61:14 172:4,22 draft 88:10 276:14
220:19 77:12 141:3 81:6,11 173:10,13 88:14 314:17
221:25 146:1,14,22 196:10 176:10,20 144:20 easy 165:11
240:24 148:22 285:24 178:10,12 186:17 165:16
247:19 149:3,6,9 288:22 179:13,14 196:4 306:6
255:16 149:12 302:14 186:20,21 361:17 358:21
271:14 157:24 317:14 187:15,23 drafted 28:1 360:4
272:12,19 158:17 321:14,19 192:23 64:6 144:16 384:16
274:2,20 160:25 321:21 200:13 272:3 Echemendia
283:15 168:1 169:6 download 207:16 drafting 3:12 4:6,8
284:23 169:8,9 19:6 208:18 195:23 4:11 5:1,7
288:6 170:1,5 Dr 17:7 22:16 209:23 196:1 6:1,6 7:10
293:16 177:24 23:3 24:16 210:15 270:21 23:19,22,23
299:9 178:5,14 36:25 37:3 214:25 drafts 196:7 23:24 36:25
300:12 179:20 41:8 43:12 215:2,25 196:8,14,15 41:8 43:12
303:19 181:9 45:19 47:23 216:1,3,4 196:17 47:23 48:14

612.338.3376
Page 411
59:19 60:1 384:11,23 31:7 32:1 152:17 entire 193:23 389:15

67:9,12,19 385:4 40:17 92:10 278:21 206:25 390:1
67:24 68:17 Echemendi... 102:8 emphasize 325:23 establishes
71:6 77:11 104:25 130:15 323:15 entitled 3:10 109:23
80:13,21 170:23 134:4 employ 54:2 164:13 establishing
81:25 215:25 194:21,24 215:18,20 165:8 110:7
104:21 303:19 197:1,5 employabil... 233:14 establishm...
105:22 economics 198:11 51:4 53:11 274:2 387:2 233:20
106:5,11,18 12:7 13:13 201:3 213:2 53:23 55:15 entries 62:15 estimate
108:3 edge 282:25 236:3,14,15 56:12 65:17 91:23 25:20
126:25 edit 144:13 efficacy 65:23 66:2 entry 159:13 et 224:6
156:18 edited 369:9 104:1 66:8 84:18 241:17 evade 327:19
162:10 educate effort 309:22 84:25 215:4 environment evaluate
166:15,24 300:3 efforts 75:24 215:10 35:7,16 205:10
167:14,17 302:15 379:22 231:5 75:15 93:17 291:1
169:19 306:2 380:2 enabling 100:23 evaluated
171:6,21 320:18 eight 2:8 340:3,12 254:19 206:5 262:9
172:4,22 362:10 216:24 encephalo... 263:11,12 262:23
173:10,13 educated 317:17 116:2,17 264:20 263:10,16
176:10,20 303:16 either 16:9 119:6 268:18 268:18
178:12 educating 23:7 29:13 154:10 291:23 290:10
179:5,13 292:7 79:22 81:21 155:1 376:24 297:8 331:3
182:10 education 81:22 156:21 epidemiolo... 331:15
186:21 35:19 36:7 126:10 202:23 68:2 366:21
187:15,23 40:20 141:6 155:11 203:16 epidemiolo... evaluation
192:23 254:20 159:22 encompass 282:9 262:11
198:25 278:24 181:24,24 234:13 epidemiolo... 263:10,19
200:13 293:18,24 303:24 encourage 47:24 48:6 263:22
208:18 294:3 303:6 326:7 345:10 48:10 98:18 264:15
209:23 304:16,24 353:12 ended 198:4 237:13 265:1,2
210:15 308:6 378:15 218:2 237:2 epidemiolo... 266:6,9,13
216:3 309:14,21 389:4 ends 62:3 12:23 268:17
220:21 309:23 elbows 99:5 187:1 equal 241:11 287:22
221:18 310:9 313:4 120:20,22 enforceable 241:17 289:16
223:1 313:7 elevation 345:10 equipment 291:11,23
224:10 320:23 265:9 engage 33:25 34:15 296:18
226:22 337:5,8 else's 119:9 169:20 34:16 35:7 298:2,6
227:5,10 educational elucidate 171:14 35:12 94:8 366:6,18,19
228:9,11,14 151:13 71:7 224:2 94:8 100:23 366:25
229:7 152:10,14 emanated 342:18 134:5 367:3,7
259:21 307:2 94:2 engaged 18:4 254:20 evaluations
288:19 311:10,14 emanating 72:13 198:1 376:24 367:4
301:17,24 379:22 94:12 engineering Errata 395:1 event 69:1
302:24 380:2 embarrassed 94:14 396:9 239:18
309:3,7 392:19 327:21 engineers ESQUIRE 2:4 240:15
318:9,20,23 effect 56:6 embarrassi... 94:10 2:9,15,15 265:11
330:23 57:20,20,23 327:20 enjoy 352:10 2:16 266:4 267:1
360:20 84:22 95:2 emerging 352:12 essential 273:12
361:4 130:12,14 134:12,12 ensued 274:15 280:25
368:24 216:4 emoting 201:23 essentially events
369:7,11 256:25 249:5 ensure 223:2 229:13,15
375:2,11,13 368:9 emotional 320:19 establish everyone's
378:10,18 effective 247:4,5,6,7 entail 191:4 112:17 291:9
379:12 104:9 312:7 342:7 234:7 established ever-elusive
381:4 345:9 emphasis enterprise 110:12 326:25
383:12 effects 20:3 151:14 220:12 177:6 evidence

612.338.3376
Page 412
41:1 126:16 113:19,21 59:22 66:20 373:7 110:5 352:2

168:21 150:15 67:2 69:8 374:20,24 126:14,24 extent 116:7
190:17 155:1 70:22 74:23 375:15 127:2 147:4 116:20
202:14 173:17 78:11,16 380:6,22 148:5 122:18
evidencing 192:23 89:3,9 381:1 154:21 123:1 128:3
161:10 229:22 101:5,13 383:23 156:23,24 142:24
evolution 244:18 104:13,17 384:8 389:2 156:25 202:5,6
212:19 251:17 106:3,7 391:16 157:25 355:6
230:7 261:9,16 132:8,12 exhibited 198:20 external
293:14 273:1 140:13 289:14 199:11,17 200:8
294:6,19 279:23 151:10,17 297:6,14,18 200:6 208:1 extrapolates
307:11 281:25 159:14 297:25 220:16 125:17
evolve 226:5 356:16 166:19,22 exhibiting 221:22 eyebrows
evolved 371:5 175:18 137:4 287:7 231:12 241:23,24
58:18 64:17 373:22 179:3,8 287:13 232:8 e-mail 3:8,12
83:17 392:11 180:10 333:7 270:14,21 3:17 4:1,2,6
230:15 exception 182:14,18 336:15 EXPIRES 4:8,11,13
293:14 327:12 183:21 EXHIBITS 3:6 395:25 4:16,18,20
346:25 exchanges 186:11,14 exist 152:21 explain 70:8 4:23 5:1,4,6
evolving 322:2 191:17,22 existed 77:14 70:10 129:9 5:12,15,17
49:10 80:2 exclamation 200:20,24 142:3 166:5,11 5:19,21 6:1
185:2 308:25 203:3,8 246:16 282:19 6:3,6,8,11
189:23 Excuse 208:12,15 exists 160:10 387:10,11 6:13,15,17
209:6 137:22 209:12,16 224:22 explained 6:19,22 7:1
278:22,23 executive 210:9 213:7 389:11 184:2 7:3,5,10,15
ex 117:23 32:13 33:6 213:13 expand 189:18 7:17,20
118:6 37:15,19 220:19,24 261:19 290:11 43:3,11,13
exact 51:14 142:21 222:16,20 expect explaining 43:14,15,23
149:24 155:10 228:6,17 293:20 236:10 52:23 59:19
254:1,7 164:7 374:8 233:3,11 388:17 292:20 59:25 60:2
exactly 19:14 executives 240:16,20 expects 378:24 60:3 67:4
28:18 31:3 152:12 247:16 125:22 explanation 74:25 78:12
46:7 118:9 225:13 248:2 expensive 166:13 78:24 79:3
123:6 125:2 executive's 255:12,15 68:9,13 explicate 81:7 104:11
211:19 33:3 283:3,7 experience 381:5 104:18,19
251:21 exercise 288:8,13 335:24 explore 51:24 104:20,25
338:24 191:14 296:19 388:4,17 exploring 106:11,16
378:22 exertion 299:2 experiencing 46:18 47:6 132:5,15,18
exaggerating 368:10 301:16,21 163:24 59:4 102:25 132:22,25
334:20 exhibit 3:8,10 308:15,21 180:2 exposed 134:20
examination 3:12,14,17 318:8,13 expert 68:23 119:25 140:8,9,9
3:2 9:2 3:19,21 4:1 321:1,8,24 117:24 120:10 166:15
263:13 4:2,5,6,8,11 322:8 118:7 exposing 167:6
386:21 4:13,16,18 323:23 121:22 376:3 170:16,20
391:14 4:20,23 5:1 324:2 326:9 122:3,15 exposure 170:23
394:6,8 5:4,6,9,12 326:13 153:12 146:18 172:5,23
examine 5:15,17,19 329:2,6 265:20,21 expressed 176:6,8
146:12 5:21 6:1,3,6 332:6,10 265:22 57:22 179:5,12
147:17 6:8,11,13 335:10,14 expertise expressing 182:10,22
examined 9:1 6:15,17,19 339:8,12 154:23 66:13 352:9 182:25
examining 6:22 7:1,3,5 343:7,12 200:11 expression 183:22,24
146:21 7:8,10,13 349:17 224:3 55:14 186:7
example 22:8 7:15,17,20 358:3,6 experts 49:5 expressly 200:21
28:20 36:3 43:2,6 360:24 49:6 50:11 82:22 201:2 203:4
38:7 39:12 53:21 54:5 361:2 51:17 104:3 extensive 209:9,20,23
95:22 109:6 54:8 59:18 372:23 104:5 110:4 294:15 213:8,10,17

612.338.3376
Page 413
222:13,21 F 33:2,2,2,9 353:1,2 370:14 figuring 45:3

223:1 228:8 F 175:12 33:21 39:20 382:19,24 379:8 133:20
228:10,13 394:1 109:2 familiarity feeling 305:2
229:9 face 164:14 136:22 316:5 208:24 filed 144:24
240:17 faced 292:21 164:10 family 182:22 328:6 145:3,13
241:1 facilitate 165:23 183:7 feels 313:11 373:19,20
243:20,21 168:23 169:21 fans 352:23 313:13 373:24
247:21,24 facing 326:22 174:14,25 353:7,16,20 350:19 374:10
248:5,7 fact 16:4 28:8 185:20 354:2,8,18 feet 261:22 files 18:9,11
255:9,16,19 33:6 38:10 227:5 far 154:9,24 fellow 164:10 filing 373:13
283:4 288:9 41:11 64:1 228:20 169:18 353:3 373:17
288:23,25 75:10 77:7 232:21 383:13 felt 161:1 fill 297:17
289:3 295:4 90:3 95:16 239:25 385:15 245:8 341:15,16
299:2 135:8 137:3 243:24 fast 40:7 64:7 249:10 filled 298:4
300:23 138:14 258:5 299:6 109:2,6 258:4 278:6 filter 168:5
301:17,23 141:8 326:2 156:22 310:21 finally 196:21
302:2,9,23 143:22 328:22 fatty 103:10 390:25 257:20
303:19 156:22 341:23 104:6 fewer 196:6 272:18
308:4,8,11 162:4 163:7 354:8 385:7 favor 82:1,5 field 378:17 find 53:2 59:1
308:22 195:23 fairly 164:9 fax 358:16 fifth 359:1 71:19 98:11
309:2,5 215:6 276:14 359:3,4 fight 347:20 159:8 160:4
318:9,18,19 224:22,25 365:18 feasibility 347:23 269:17
319:18 231:20 fairness 102:18 352:11 271:13
321:1,5,15 298:5 201:22 187:21 fighting 50:6 304:22
321:25 302:22 faith 168:14 features 124:6 331:7
322:1,4 305:10 faking 331:9 188:11 344:17,23 348:23
323:3,4,20 311:3 331:14 February 3:8 344:23,25 352:15
324:6 325:22 334:10 4:21 43:4 347:17,21 finding 53:6
326:10,16 327:25 fall 22:3 43:10 44:1 348:6,17 127:17
326:19,20 340:11 131:18 44:7,18 349:4,9 128:15
328:1,11,24 341:4 294:2,3 133:3 350:17,20 204:23
329:8,9,14 347:23 310:8 209:10 351:1,4,8 303:6
332:3,15 375:13 311:17 211:8,18 351:15,18 findings 73:9
335:7,20 376:13 390:16 240:25 351:24 115:19
336:4 377:19 falls 298:9 268:1 352:7 236:11
338:19 factor 100:24 false 239:14 375:16 353:17 363:5
339:2,5 116:1 120:7 familiar 9:8 feedback 354:3,10,14 fine 41:21
340:17 204:3,5 11:24 93:22 85:8 98:2 354:22 58:7 76:7
343:9,16,23 factors 49:15 96:25 97:13 143:4,14,17 figure 31:23 173:25
343:24 108:19 117:15 218:8 219:9 45:8 46:8 174:24
344:2,4,8 180:3 119:17,22 247:12 47:7,10 196:12
344:11 332:19 174:11 258:22 72:17,23 284:15
349:7,14 facts 57:6 177:19,20 292:17 87:5,11 298:12,13
360:19 138:21 196:23 307:9 105:18 298:17
374:21 206:1 202:10 311:19 147:18 325:3 384:4
375:22 287:24 216:10 312:25 200:1 253:7 fined 296:5
379:15 288:5 220:6 238:4 336:20 254:1 296:10
380:12,19 fact-checki... 257:8 338:6 340:2 280:10 314:7,8,11
384:5 361:19 261:18 340:11 283:23 314:14
385:21 failing 313:21 280:3,8 feel 164:22 300:3,4 320:11
e-mailed 320:12 314:15 226:18 304:22 324:22
211:5 failure 314:5 315:11,15 244:24 305:8 306:3 325:18
e-mails fair 16:1,4 319:20 327:21 306:11 fining 294:22
142:13 23:15,18 331:5 343:22 310:5 295:5,14
197:9 326:2 24:6 28:8 338:15 350:7,14 figured 320:17
330:6 343:1 29:19 32:13 352:24 351:24 109:17 finish 38:11

612.338.3376
Page 414
38:24 39:3 379:19 fluidly 59:2 289:18,22 163:19 22:25

70:3,9 381:14 focus 27:1,5 292:5 293:8 force 198:10 forth 134:11
273:5 387:13,13 47:13 75:24 300:1 198:15 199:23
finished 387:22 131:17 304:24 201:9 293:9 234:19
246:11 firsthand 132:21 319:14,17 forces 49:22 394:7
273:6 308:2 137:2 322:20 foregoing Forty-one
fired 247:5 fists 120:20 140:20 324:18 396:3 301:7
firm 94:14 120:22 148:24,25 337:16 forget 126:22 forward 64:7
first 8:24 fit 44:21 149:14 367:10 369:15 156:22
17:21 24:23 254:1 191:18 377:10 forgets 193:5,11
36:6 42:13 355:17 195:5 380:25 246:17 200:1
43:19 49:20 356:9 232:13 followed forgot 227:17 218:23,24
60:19,20,25 fits 105:18 focused 21:5 49:18 form 17:13 335:16
69:9 70:23 306:12 26:12,16,20 290:19 18:15 20:10 357:10
71:1 73:18 five 76:5 26:20 75:6 291:25 28:12 32:16 358:11
81:20 93:12 271:12 163:12 303:10 42:25 51:16 forwarding
107:9,17,18 276:6 195:5 315:5,18 59:12 99:24 309:2
140:14 317:23 focuses 319:23 136:6,20 found 236:13
144:16,19 324:5 103:10 following 176:7,16 315:21
145:18 371:24 focusing 123:16 224:13 333:20
153:13 386:14 43:16,20 188:17 231:11 340:2
171:4,5,11 five-minute 44:22 49:24 210:3 249:25 foundation
171:23 372:10 53:1,7,13 222:21 265:13,25 22:20 33:20
175:20 five-page 130:21 229:11 298:4 34:18 35:24
182:24 54:20 131:12,18 246:15 326:24 36:21 40:2
183:20 fix 214:14 135:11 268:4 390:3,12 47:25 56:1
186:15,19 380:15 158:14 272:19 396:8 56:16 61:12
187:6 FL 5:10 233:8 294:18 279:25 formal 23:4 66:11 67:15
195:19 Flames 379:22 281:19 103:14 68:4,20
202:21 242:10,15 folder 383:25 295:25 272:12,18 71:14 77:23
204:13 242:16 folks 49:19 299:7 305:6 formalized 80:8,24
209:18 Flame's 50:11,23 305:10 272:11 81:14 84:6
221:6,14 236:25 78:24 313:23 formation 86:14 90:21
241:4,9,16 flaws 50:4 108:10 317:11 201:8 91:14 96:12
241:16 250:4 110:1 120:3 320:5 formed 96:17 97:6
248:4 270:5 Fleming 124:9,10,11 follows 9:1 198:10,16 97:20
272:3,7 73:18,21 177:9 follow-up 201:16 106:21
274:20 107:19 178:19 85:5 179:19 218:24 107:11,14
276:10 190:17 184:5,25 221:3 260:17,18 108:5 111:4
285:2 293:8 230:1 193:5 292:20 former 307:1 111:8 112:2
293:15 Fleshing 200:10 303:5 352:4 112:9 113:3
295:19 65:10,11 201:19 322:18 forming 113:12,14
302:1 Fletcher 206:20 324:11 199:14 113:23
308:22 302:5 208:3 338:23 forms 246:24 114:21
319:14 flexibility 212:23 386:23 252:21 116:4,12,18
322:2,16 94:15 223:23 font 362:16 392:12 117:12,19
323:4 flexible 93:20 244:13 foot 27:6 formulate 118:12
332:13 flip 97:22,23 304:10 football 64:12 83:18 123:21
336:3 floated 210:3 follow 40:7 49:21,22 197:25 125:19,25
339:18 211:2 49:13,13 120:5 232:8 126:7
341:11 FLOM 1:17 55:13 65:16 124:10,13 formulated 127:19,25
344:22 2:13 126:21 124:16 50:22 198:2 128:18
346:5,6 fluid 108:7,22 174:16 125:4,13,16 234:24 129:1,8
358:24 109:9 178:4 186:4 126:5,12 formulating 130:5 135:6
361:3,7 189:24 221:15 140:25 230:25 137:11
368:17 192:12 245:2 153:16 formulation 138:7,15,16

612.338.3376
Page 415
139:23 348:2,7,19 205:2,12 337:20 344:25 general 16:13

144:3 350:5,11 209:17 361:18 346:24 16:20 28:4
145:14 351:13 265:25 375:11 347:1,3,4,5 28:6 29:11
153:8 354:12 310:3,13,18 378:19 348:23 30:12 31:9
154:14,20 356:24 391:19 381:4,23 349:8 350:1 31:25 32:9
155:2,7,12 364:24 frustrated 385:19 350:7,9,20 39:13 59:4
157:22 365:6 368:3 226:23 391:14 351:4,25 83:9 87:24
158:23 373:16 256:18 394:10 353:8,21 90:2 97:16
159:6,19 374:5,11 257:6,8 future 61:3 354:10 104:7 112:7
160:5 376:7 313:11,19 62:7 91:23 357:20 112:13
170:25 378:21 325:25 92:1,18 368:20 113:11
172:2,9 382:3 344:15 102:21 games 262:1 114:10
173:19 383:16 frustrating 105:11 262:3 143:3
193:24 385:11 249:2 255:2 129:21,23 gap 298:8 152:14
194:15 390:4,13 258:4 133:5 140:1 329:25 163:8
197:2 four 1:17 frustration 140:5 187:4 gaps 305:3 164:19
198:12 2:14 54:24 252:11 191:3,9,11 Garcia 2:22 192:1
215:23 226:3,19 311:2 333:7 224:9 8:7 215:11
216:11 248:17 334:3 243:25 Gary 4:18 5:4 232:25
227:2 285:13 336:15 284:4 5:21 6:15 233:1
229:18 306:11 382:11 FW 182:20 6:17,22 7:3 239:10
232:20 383:7 Ft 5:10 233:7 335:16 7:13,17,20 247:6 293:3
234:10 fourth 187:12 fulfilled FWD 361:3 140:15 303:11,11
236:5,17 214:22 246:25 F'ing 333:5 141:1,1 322:12
238:14 358:25 full 55:21 150:16,17 351:20,22
242:12 four-sente... 96:1 146:10 G 203:4 351:23
243:5 244:3 345:15 164:13 G 2:4 8:23 204:14,17 352:3 353:9
245:11 frame 267:7 165:8 gained 135:3 222:13 355:3
246:10 Frank 5:17 170:22 game 46:8 241:18 generalize
248:18 204:15,19 171:4 72:8,10 243:23 159:25
251:8 255:9,17 175:20 100:21 248:6,8 generalizing
258:14 frankly 180:10 120:23 288:9,18 195:10
259:4 261:3 364:22 184:12 123:19 301:10 generally
262:12 freaking 187:13 124:1,5,6 326:10,18 18:18 32:19
264:16 308:24 223:9,24 131:14 328:24 64:14 77:4
267:6 269:3 free 343:22 302:17 135:3,10,18 329:8 335:7 82:1,5
269:11 frequency 366:5 369:2 238:11,11 335:17 85:25 86:4
270:19 95:23 97:17 369:8,8,13 238:18 343:9,16 88:19 240:8
272:5,22 128:16 386:3,7 242:6 267:2 344:3 373:5 250:24
275:24 280:23,25 387:2 267:10 375:25 263:4,6
279:10 frequent Fuller 302:6,6 268:7 376:3 289:5
282:17 89:25 Fuller's 303:1 275:20 380:19 340:19
286:22 247:13 fully 10:3,7 276:24 384:5 364:12
287:15 274:5 12:2 95:17 277:4,21,25 gathered generated
289:12 frequently 190:3 278:1 126:17 46:11
298:24 273:1 192:24 280:11,15 gathering generations
314:19 289:10 251:13 287:7,20 210:1 180:19
316:10,19 fresh 200:12 fun 341:12 288:18 gazillion generically
317:4 200:14 funding 289:10 254:21 221:12
319:19 friction 68:10,15 292:22 GBB 140:15 gentleman
320:14 364:19 further 59:4 293:21 241:17,21 103:9
324:23 365:2,2 59:7 79:22 296:1 299:3 gears 124:7 Gerry 7:1
331:20 Friday 370:23 181:8 299:16,19 Gee 65:23 307:12
340:22 friend 349:6 223:14,22 300:9 301:8 245:3 308:18
342:1 friends 240:3 304:12 306:9 Gehrig's 309:8 312:3
347:19 front 78:11 325:13 344:20,24 114:18 313:1 338:5

612.338.3376
Page 416
338:14,20 341:7,8 190:7 105:5 109:7 good 8:12 9:4 355:16,17

339:5,16 364:8 191:23 111:20 9:5 49:8 grab 145:24
340:24 370:25 193:5 207:7 119:15 60:12 63:14 grades
342:4 377:1 210:18 127:13 63:19 64:15 114:20
Gerry's 311:5 378:19 212:10,10 132:11 65:6,22 graduate
312:19 383:5 218:6 219:9 133:14 76:1 77:13 12:4
313:10 given 17:10 225:17 137:16,25 87:17 92:22 graduated
338:12,16 21:17 75:20 231:10 144:7 147:6 104:7 12:25 13:7
getting 35:9 77:7 87:4,9 235:15 150:12 126:19 Grand 1:15
36:2 49:11 92:20 241:5 246:4 151:9 137:25 3:3,8,15 4:1
50:9 70:17 100:22,23 248:19 156:19 138:19 4:2,9,11,14
74:19 98:9 134:22 254:2 160:19 168:5,12,20 4:16,18,20
98:12 135:8,10,21 265:25 167:25 175:16 4:23 5:1,4,6
112:20 136:18,25 268:17 172:6,24 180:7 189:8 5:15,17,19
119:13 137:2 146:9 271:23 173:15 208:2 209:2 5:21 6:1,4,6
120:15 147:7 150:9 284:2,21 186:13,14 212:15 6:8,11,13
123:24 163:10,11 293:12 188:14,25 243:13 6:19 7:1,3,5
127:7 147:1 176:5 296:16 189:5,16,20 246:8 7:10,15,17
147:2,2,3 192:14 304:6 200:19 251:17 8:3 9:4
163:8 168:2 225:7 236:2 312:11 201:20 253:18 25:14 31:6
168:19 260:25 313:3 315:2 213:7 214:4 276:22 43:1,3 55:3
222:4 280:25 317:8 320:4 216:20 292:9 66:17 67:1
239:22 327:24,24 322:22 218:5 219:3 309:24 91:22
254:11,11 345:20 333:15,18 219:9 336:20 101:23
255:3 346:23 334:4,17 220:18 338:21,21 104:11
256:16 347:3 394:9 357:4,10 224:15 340:11,21 113:9 114:8
257:20 396:5 360:8 367:5 228:1,7 372:16 132:5,11
258:8,8,22 giving 19:2 367:12 231:24 375:3 376:2 151:8
260:16 31:17 68:7 372:2 232:15 378:14 175:16
265:4 288:1 137:20 384:16 240:15 gosh 94:6 179:6
288:3 292:8 177:2 goal 101:2 247:16 gotten 89:17 182:11,18
292:17 377:22 149:12,13 257:11,21 89:19 98:2 186:8,13
293:18,18 glass 35:16 goalies 272:9 274:3 287:6 200:21
307:9 95:13,24,24 303:23 277:4 324:21 203:4,22
309:24 97:10,10,18 goes 154:11 283:24 361:14 209:9
313:14,16 global 254:22 184:2 288:7,8 365:13 212:25
313:18 356:12 206:15 293:20 governor 213:10
339:19 GM 313:20 223:5 294:12,17 29:12 220:20
349:7 378:5 314:4 354:5 234:21 318:1,8 Governors 222:13
Gibbs 10:19 GMs 133:14 278:14 319:9 326:8 3:22 28:2,9 228:5,13
girl 219:20 215:16 326:23 329:5 331:7 28:22 29:1 233:18
give 15:24 294:11 363:6 334:5 29:21 30:5 247:24
19:5 25:20 310:1 313:4 375:17 335:13 85:21,24 255:10
27:2 51:18 314:2 391:8 going 21:3 339:11 86:2,4,6,12 283:2,5,11
52:18 66:5 go 9:9 20:14 28:5 43:1 356:25 86:17,21 288:9,18
86:23 26:5 35:1 47:18 51:2 360:3 367:5 88:8,11 301:18
135:16,24 39:3 48:20 51:3,5,7,8 372:4,18,22 90:8,17,23 308:12
138:1 148:8 51:7 58:4,6 51:25 53:20 374:13 91:4,9,12 318:5,10
170:5,6 58:8 63:22 56:5,7,10 380:13,25 101:7,18 321:5,23
184:8,18 71:19 95:17 56:11 58:17 383:17 102:14 322:4
185:12 99:5 100:18 63:22 67:1 384:20 269:15 323:20
192:13 105:5 106:7 70:7,9 76:3 386:17 270:25 324:3 326:8
239:19 118:23 76:9 85:7 Goldfein 271:7 329:5 332:3
271:11 138:16 88:11,12,17 13:24 283:19 332:9 333:6
279:22 140:17 101:3 Goldman 2:7 285:18 335:13
294:3 337:4 160:6 188:1 104:16 8:15 286:2 339:6,17

612.338.3376
Page 417
343:9 179:25 57:6,9 66:7 345:24 126:14 147:19

349:14 182:2 66:25 70:5 359:12,17 guy 242:9 160:24
360:14,19 184:10 73:21 74:2 359:22,25 308:24 163:23
361:4 185:7 74:5,7 76:4 360:3,6,8 310:3 192:11
365:24 186:17 76:7 96:14 360:13 guys 337:16 224:8,18
372:22 192:19 100:3 371:21 372:13 238:20
374:19,21 194:7,20 107:13,23 372:1,6,9 377:24 325:11
380:12,19 195:1,4,6 111:13,17 372:12,16 gymnast 345:4 350:8
386:23 197:7 198:5 111:19 373:12 163:19 happens
395:5 200:5 117:21 374:15 93:12
396:12 201:16,19 118:10,13 380:3,10 H 218:20
grant 198:21 206:3 207:1 118:16 383:5,11,22 half 374:14 263:21
235:20 207:2,7,9 122:5,8,12 384:4 halt 69:20,22 332:1
236:9 207:10,25 127:7,11,22 386:10 hand 9:14 349:11
great 148:16 213:23 128:5,13 390:3,12 27:7 28:11 350:16
148:22 218:24 129:17 391:12,13 62:4 376:1 happy 87:23
327:15 224:19 137:15,23 391:15 handing 129:9
364:23 231:11 138:18,22 392:22 383:10 166:11
372:16 232:7 150:1,4 guess 19:13 handle 240:8
greater 39:12 233:20,22 155:22 22:2 41:5 341:14 241:18,19
39:24 234:14,18 158:8 60:23 61:22 handout 241:21
grievance 235:1,3 162:19 100:22 20:10 248:10
261:24 237:25 165:2 166:3 118:24 handwriting 269:17
357:17 245:22,23 166:7 124:16 60:16 63:13 hard 12:18
grind 69:22 246:1 167:12 130:17 241:8 27:2 109:1
grossly 251:16,20 169:9 149:8 358:21 109:6 146:9
225:19 251:22,25 171:18 159:22 handwritten 172:11
ground 69:20 252:2 257:5 172:17 165:12,14 7:8 60:4,13 179:2
190:7 259:1,22 173:2,21 165:14 61:23 358:4 320:24
grounds 260:1 285:3 174:17,19 166:10 358:9,14 harder
36:22 272:6 285:6 309:6 175:4,6,8 170:14 hang 106:9 226:24
group 25:5 312:21 180:25 171:18 263:1 harm 180:7
34:8,25,25 339:16 181:2 188:9 284:13 head 9:15
35:2 46:1 340:9,25 187:25 201:25 301:1,1 17:24 19:13
51:17 57:16 352:25 189:10 219:24,24 happen 30:23 20:4 22:10
57:25 58:23 371:7 197:15 242:2 103:4 22:18 25:25
59:6,12 378:10 202:10,15 276:24 218:21 26:10,13,16
60:22 61:2 groups 25:10 202:19 279:14 261:5 27:10 33:13
61:18 64:3 35:3,5,10 205:7 211:9 304:25 280:22 33:18 34:13
79:23 80:11 49:14 50:2 214:6,10,12 314:8 345:3 291:10,21 70:21 74:19
92:2 94:12 67:21 214:16 345:7 349:10 80:10
94:13 232:17 219:24 350:13 happened 116:15,21
105:24,24 Group's 222:1,4,8 352:16 41:4 45:9 119:14,18
105:25 235:25 237:21 368:14 61:24 62:1 119:25
106:24 245:20 251:23 388:18 211:3 290:5 120:11,15
107:1 growing 255:22 guidance 290:6 120:21
122:25 230:19 263:2 341:8 297:16 121:3,11
126:10 Grygiel 2:4 271:11,13 guide 365:9 303:6 122:1,19
127:5,6 3:3 8:12,12 282:4 guided 367:5 329:22,23 123:17,19
129:14,22 9:3,6 20:17 286:12 guidelines happening 124:16
133:3 140:6 21:6,20 293:2 195:3 45:11 46:7 138:12
159:18 26:1,3 300:14 Guskiewicz 72:9 75:17 142:7
160:11,25 37:24 40:5 316:23 124:18,21 75:19 109:4 163:20
167:25 40:8 41:18 317:22 124:24 116:8 173:18
168:18 43:24 44:1 331:21 125:3,10,16 146:20 174:2,7
176:11 44:3,5 57:2 332:1 125:21 147:9,13,15 178:21

612.338.3376
Page 418
210:24 130:23 hiding 141:25 134:3 353:4 354:4 354:13

224:5 143:3,14 149:16 138:12 354:24
242:16 161:19 172:25 173:18 355:15 I
244:25 219:12 hierarchy 174:2,7 373:15 Ian 3:17
260:10,16 247:12 139:13 191:13 374:8 378:6 27:16 37:20
279:25 329:24 high 100:9,10 345:4,8 387:3,4 78:1,12
280:22 347:22 102:20 Hmm 343:20 388:4,15 79:3
297:7 298:3 hearing 148:16 hockey 1:5 395:2 Ian's 78:10
307:14 160:11,14 higher 97:17 3:22 8:4 hockey-co... 78:18
339:1 345:8 163:13 98:12 19:1 21:12 126:11 icon 381:10
345:11 261:24,25 136:11,25 22:10 28:2 hold 102:1 idea 35:21
389:12,14 315:4 189:21 39:18,22 225:16,16 47:12 48:16
389:24 hears 313:12 highest 99:22 49:20,22 255:21 48:22 59:5
headed 94:5 heart 150:18 highlight 50:6 79:12 322:15 64:15 65:22
heading 55:6 150:23 21:4 86:7 101:8 355:5 71:12 78:7
182:20 151:1 highlighting 119:19,24 holding 297:7 79:11 81:8
283:10 height 383:23 384:17 120:4,9 holes 146:16 81:12,16,21
288:16 held 1:16 high-level 121:4 124:9 146:18 92:22
headline 3:22 101:8 65:2 354:6 124:12,14 246:16 136:10
203:13 267:2 314:4 hindsight 124:23 250:10 176:20
health 15:17 328:14 327:20 125:5,18 305:2 189:8
25:2,7,24 380:9 334:14 126:5,12 honest 197:12,14
27:5,8 37:6 helmet 206:4 hire 316:8,11 129:5 138:4 122:24 200:2 209:2
38:1 50:17 helmets hiring 94:14 139:12 190:20 210:20
63:25 77:22 134:5,9 historical 142:21 honestly 212:4,8,16
77:25 79:8 191:15 18:11 144:23 257:11 221:21
80:14 82:10 help 32:22 history 55:8 145:2,6,10 honor 375:19 225:10
82:12,24 34:12 38:6 169:25 153:21,24 hope 220:18 239:11
84:4,19,24 45:4,8 215:19 154:7 hopefully 295:5
90:19 91:1 46:20 47:8 217:11 155:10 30:17 306:25
91:6 100:25 47:9 49:1 229:13 156:7 161:4 196:17 319:10
104:7 109:8 53:25,25 284:1,3 161:8 333:11 375:3
137:9 138:6 141:14 327:14 163:18 horizon 41:5 378:15
139:4 148:2 195:15 332:19 164:3,6,15 47:16 ideally
148:18,24 237:3 357:24 165:6,6,9 hot 225:1 263:16
149:1,15 262:15 388:3,9,16 169:22 hour 76:2 ideas 67:20
177:25 334:19 389:1 171:23 hours 25:19 67:25 133:5
178:15 helped hit 45:3 173:14 226:3,19 200:14
180:17,22 237:14 102:23 176:12 276:5 279:3 identification
217:2 220:3 helpful 63:5 119:13 193:19 371:1 43:7 54:6
229:17 178:8 120:15,21 226:24 huge 293:24 59:23 66:21
230:5,11 310:15 124:25 227:6 234:5 huh 346:9 78:16,23
232:25 helping 33:12 126:12,12 236:22 hurt 163:20 89:10
235:21 33:18 253:7 199:22 237:18 Hutcher-Co... 101:14
286:24 369:23 261:22 238:2,21 45:14 104:14
363:2 hereinbefore 279:25 239:21 Hutchison 132:9
hear 9:18 394:7 298:2 314:6 282:3,4 45:15,17,18 151:18
160:13 hesitation hits 34:13 321:17 Hutchison-... 166:19
303:24 112:16 116:15,21 330:15,15 45:16 179:9
312:2 Hey 18:13 119:17,25 332:20 hyphen 61:4 182:15
heard 90:24 145:11 120:4,5,10 347:18 62:18,21 186:11
115:24 201:19 120:20,20 348:17 hypocritical 200:25
116:10 242:9 323:8 121:3,11 349:24 176:13 203:9
117:6 371:6 122:1,18 350:2,3,3 hypothetical 209:13
122:20 Hi 336:5 123:17,19 351:9 193:25 213:14
123:9 128:6 hid 148:9,10 124:15 352:21 194:5 220:25

612.338.3376
Page 419
222:17 imagine 87:12 88:6 33:12 increase 35:22 36:2

228:18 193:21 99:14 Improved 351:2 38:20,21,22
233:12 227:14 109:19 62:21 increased 38:23 39:5
240:21 immediately 110:18,22 inaccuracies 26:7 111:22 39:9 51:5
248:2 265:10 111:6,21 217:10 111:24 66:5 71:23
255:13 266:7 112:5,11,22 inaccuracy 112:6,14 72:7 86:25
283:8 immersed 112:24 244:9 113:5,10 87:6,9 90:5
288:14 346:18 113:8 114:7 inaccurate 114:9 115:1 92:20 94:18
301:21 impact 34:12 120:6 238:18 128:16 95:3 114:12
308:16,22 56:11 123:2 131:13 incidence 130:3 119:20
318:13 217:5,22,23 149:9 124:22 136:14 139:2,8
321:9 322:9 217:25 164:23 136:11 141:15 146:10
323:24 218:1 169:14,16 169:11 163:9 170:3,6
326:14 334:17 169:17 352:8 increasing 177:23
329:3 332:7 368:10 184:9,14,20 incident 230:20 178:3
335:11 389:12 185:2,16,24 290:16 260:14 181:20
339:9 impacted 186:2 296:24 incredibly 232:9 239:6
343:13 134:17 248:22 305:23 146:8 239:12
349:18 impacts 249:15 315:21 independent 242:21
358:2,7 123:2,3 250:3,11 incidents 20:15 21:3 243:3 244:1
360:24 124:17 256:24 71:8 280:16 173:7 253:1 273:9,10
373:8 215:10 257:5 280:23 262:2 275:5
374:25 389:14,25 277:11 325:13 286:14 276:15,18
380:23 impair 10:3,7 280:9 include 31:5 333:16,18 287:6,12,25
384:9 impairment 293:17 362:25 365:14 291:12
identified 39:24 57:13 304:21 included 371:4 292:9,13
27:14 42:5 62:18 320:23 15:17 independe... 298:7
44:14 50:3 116:24 323:17 115:16 238:1 253:2 299:16,23
113:20 136:15 324:15 213:24 257:19 304:16
289:20 215:15 349:25 218:3 365:21 305:7 306:4
291:13 impairments 350:8,15,20 305:21 indicated 309:15,25
369:21 39:13 56:23 351:25 353:20 80:11 330:7
371:11 64:22 352:20 includes indicating 340:19,21
identifies impediment 377:24 369:6 85:13 361:18
147:13 258:22 392:4 including 171:11 365:13,21
199:3 implication impose 351:3 35:6 94:6 indication 374:9
identify 202:2 351:7 357:1 94:14 114:24 387:21
21:16 30:4 implications imposed 114:16 individual 388:10,22
76:15 65:11 93:25 94:20 197:1 206:1 367:2 391:3,6,8
139:11,12 109:20 262:1 213:24 individuali... informatio...
141:14 215:8 impossible 256:15 391:22 152:15
143:6,9 importance 331:24 310:24 392:15 informed
147:14 47:8 102:19 impression 351:9 352:4 individuals 192:2
161:8 162:7 133:10 170:15,19 363:1 204:8 informs
163:6 213:8 245:15 impressions incomplete industry 147:7
228:7 291:5 253:23 239:14 86:24 87:2 110:3 148:6 infrequent
295:24 317:10 impressive 354:13 258:3 365:18
306:4 328:9 381:11 incongruous 267:15 initial 17:1
359:13 important improper 348:16 377:7 63:20 65:21
373:2 9:13 27:1 111:18 incoordinat... infected 134:20
identifying 39:11,25 113:13 306:7 363:18 392:3
79:2 188:11 42:19,23 122:10,13 incorporated info 184:11 initially 98:3
244:23 44:20 47:14 150:20 268:5 inform 38:6 276:9
identity 47:15 49:1 174:20 incorrect 160:8 initials
161:6,12 71:24 75:4 354:13 73:23 109:5 informal 23:6 380:18
idiot 308:25 75:25 77:9 improve 243:2 information initiate

612.338.3376
Page 420
197:23 278:22,23 intensify interpretat... 41:11,15 137:4,7

initiated 279:3 224:9 349:2 42:19,19 139:8
197:22 326:24 intentionally interruption 44:16 50:12 140:24
initiating 327:9,12,23 83:14 17:12 52:1 53:17 188:10
128:9 333:14 interact intersected 57:18 66:2 189:17
initiation 395:2 387:17 261:23 66:8,10 224:15,17
22:23 Inn 3:22 interacted intervention 68:16 85:21 224:18
initiative 101:9 247:13 303:25 90:12 97:24 225:5,8
26:14 305:4 input 30:18 interaction 304:2 99:14,16,17 231:2,4
311:10 89:17,19 269:14 intimately 103:15 234:22
initiatives 144:14 336:8 174:11 105:1,12 269:1
22:17 44:21 145:1 147:1 interactions introduce 109:18,19 286:24
77:10 147:2,2,3 22:1 247:8 8:11 110:21 307:18
177:13 153:1 170:5 341:2 investigated 112:22 310:23
192:8 170:7 interest 59:4 129:20 139:19,24 311:6
254:18 258:22 134:15 investigation 141:18 363:21,22
294:18 361:14,19 180:15 14:22 142:3 377:10
342:15,17 369:8 188:8 129:13,23 146:15 italics 362:18
342:19 inquire 290:3 230:19 158:22 147:21,21 iteration
injuries 19:8 inquiries 378:10 involve 130:1 166:24 346:5,6
20:4 26:13 390:20 interested 319:21 180:1 iterations
26:17 27:7 inside 144:19 36:13 41:24 involved 18:1 197:24 195:12
27:7,10 insight 236:2 52:10 19:7,8 215:4 224:4 iterative
50:1 95:23 install 93:20 180:16 90:11 107:1 225:1,1,3 309:22
97:17 147:8 instance 210:16 121:10 231:14,18 Iverson
147:10 144:16 212:13 134:19 232:8 198:21
224:5 236:4 285:2 273:25 141:2 244:21 199:5
237:18 instances 284:9 167:15 304:10 233:23
238:2,19 300:9 394:12 184:11 309:13
242:5 instigator interesting 249:3 255:3 310:1 J
249:19 351:2 41:25 42:12 255:8 315:10 J 8:23 339:17
injury 1:7 8:5 Institute 42:15,18,21 266:20 317:15 361:4
17:24 18:4 219:13 47:14,16 270:21 321:2 James 2:15
19:13 24:23 221:3 48:23 81:1 296:23,24 322:19 8:17 14:1,7
26:9 34:3 222:22 123:22 373:17 341:5,7 222:12
44:25 45:12 223:3,15 131:8,24 involves 357:12 james.kety...
47:3,11 instruct 250:1 272:2 371:6 381:3 2:16
94:3 96:4 20:21 95:12 283:17,24 involving issued 152:7 January 3:17
97:9 98:3 143:1 284:23 14:4 29:21 152:10,16 5:19 7:6
98:12 99:4 178:12 377:2 31:10 43:11 157:15 78:13,25
99:8 109:24 202:5 interests 233:22 268:4 79:3 133:3
115:25 361:25 150:16,22 297:3 274:17 212:3,9
116:15 insurance 150:25 318:19 291:18 283:5,12
119:4 273:22 interface 364:15 307:8 349:15,21
121:19 360:15 260:19 in-person issues 15:15 391:9,10
122:23 361:8,10 264:2 304:4,7 15:15,21 Jay 67:5
237:6,7 362:8 interim 13:3 irrespective 27:5,8 Jeff 233:25
242:18,19 373:23 interject 280:16 46:20 49:23 Jennifer
242:21 insurers 229:23 irresponsible 61:5 66:14 300:5
244:19,24 362:7,8 internal 169:4,7,12 79:20,23 Jerry 309:4
245:10,14 intellectual 176:14 169:13 82:19 129:7 Jersey 314:16
245:24 48:25 206:7 irritability 131:12,16 315:21
246:2 250:9 intellectually international 113:21 131:17 316:8,15
252:22 222:11 389:13,23 issue 24:7 132:4,23 317:1 318:6
254:17 intelligible interpret 25:11 27:12 135:11 319:1 320:3
260:11,17 9:25 156:25 33:7 39:25 136:14 320:9,11

612.338.3376
Page 421
324:21 66:17 243:18 57:4,7,10 138:23 222:3,6

325:10,14 104:11 245:17 61:12 66:6 139:23 224:13
325:18 132:5 179:6 246:4,8 66:11 67:15 142:23 225:14,16
327:3 328:6 182:11 247:21 68:4,20 144:3 225:18
328:19 186:8 248:6,16 70:3,7 145:14,25 226:11,14
336:8,21,23 189:15 250:21,23 71:14 72:2 146:2 226:16
Jersey's 200:21 Kane's 73:19,23 149:24 227:2,23
317:10 203:4 209:1 236:21 74:1,3,6 150:2,13,19 229:4,18
325:23,25 209:9 249:18 76:1,5,23 151:2 153:8 232:20
326:4 213:10 Kate 17:21 77:23 80:8 153:11 234:10
Jim 137:17 220:20 19:5 80:24 81:14 154:12,19 236:5,17
214:12 222:6,13 keen 180:14 82:25 84:6 155:2,6,12 237:19
job 15:6 228:13 keep 47:16 86:14 87:1 155:18 238:14
139:16 239:20 47:17 48:16 87:17,22,25 157:17,21 240:1 241:5
204:17,19 240:3,18 149:2 90:13,20 158:7,9,11 242:12
246:9 247:6 245:3 239:11 91:2,14 158:23 243:5 244:3
248:17 247:24 249:21 92:23,25 159:6,19 245:11
John 19:10 255:10 250:8 380:3 95:5 96:12 160:5 246:10
24:9 61:19 283:4,11 390:15 96:16,23 161:22 248:18
63:2 66:15 288:9,18 keeping 97:6,20 162:17,20 249:25
183:17 301:18 141:25 99:24 100:5 162:24 251:8,19
188:13,25 308:12 Kelly 27:18 100:17 164:16 252:1,9
198:25 318:10 kept 48:22 102:1 166:1,5,9 255:21
216:4 321:5 322:4 77:16 191:2 103:17,21 166:12 256:4
joined 21:9 323:20 192:2 106:21 167:1,10 258:14
39:17 99:22 324:3 325:2 230:16 107:11,14 168:16 259:4,10,15
156:7 332:3 336:5 237:17 107:21 169:8 261:3
joint 19:18 339:6 343:9 249:21,23 108:5 170:18,25 262:12
25:7 145:12 349:14 257:14 109:10,21 171:9,16 264:16
304:17 360:19 Kevin 124:18 111:4,7,15 172:2,9,15 267:6 269:3
310:15 361:3 Keyte 2:15 111:18 172:19 269:11,25
311:10 374:21 3:4 8:17,17 112:2,9,15 173:1,6,19 270:19
jointly 57:17 375:17 11:4,9,11 113:3,12,23 174:13,21 271:4,12
177:13 380:12,19 11:15 14:1 114:15,21 175:5 176:7 272:5,22
Jones 17:21 395:5 17:13 18:15 116:4,12,18 176:16 273:4,8
journal 396:12 18:20 20:14 117:12,19 178:1 275:24
195:21 July 7:14 20:21 21:19 117:23 180:24 279:10
196:21 73:21 74:8 22:20 23:11 118:5,12,15 181:1 282:3,17
282:8 107:19 24:1 25:23 118:20 187:24 284:13,16
journals 362:15 26:2,4 119:7 121:6 189:9 286:11,22
168:5 373:6 28:12 32:10 121:13,21 193:24 287:15
judgment jumped 74:19 32:16 33:14 122:2,6,10 194:15 288:6
307:23 June 4:6,9 33:20 34:18 122:15 197:2,14,16 289:12
357:21,22 85:5 108:13 35:24 36:11 123:21 198:12 293:1 295:3
Jule 6:19 166:16 36:21 37:22 125:6,19,24 202:4,13,17 295:8 296:2
Julie 1:15 3:3 179:6 188:5 38:8 39:3 126:7 127:4 202:25 296:6
3:8,15 4:1,2 190:6 210:4 39:15 40:1 127:19,21 205:4,8 298:24
4:9,11,14 211:2 219:6 40:6 41:16 127:25 207:3,6,19 300:13,15
4:16,18,20 219:7,7,10 42:22,24 128:4,11,18 208:12,20 300:24
4:23 5:1,4,6 221:7 231:8 43:22,25 129:1,8,15 211:8 214:3 301:9
5:12,15,17 44:2,4 130:5 136:6 214:8,11,15 314:19,23
5:19,21 6:1 K 45:21,24 136:20 214:19 315:1
6:4,6,8,11 Kane 5:13 47:25 48:5 137:11,14 215:23 316:10,19
6:13 7:1,3,5 236:19 48:19 52:11 137:19,22 216:9,11 316:21
7:10,15,17 240:18 52:20 55:20 137:24 219:23 317:4,6,23
8:3 43:3 241:3 56:1,16,25 138:7,15,20 221:24 319:19

612.338.3376
Page 422
320:14 58:20,22 246:20 37:18 38:21 145:4 243:4,7

322:15 59:2,15 248:25 39:11,19 146:16 244:16,22
324:23 61:21,25 249:2,4,6,7 40:18 42:11 147:11,18 245:13,22
330:25 64:16 70:20 249:8,9 42:14,15 147:20,21 246:17
331:19,22 72:8,10 250:5,10 44:9,10,11 148:13 247:7 249:9
340:22 74:16 75:23 252:13,17 44:21 45:1 149:2,3,9 249:11,23
342:1 79:21 82:10 252:23 45:3,21 149:11,16 250:3,4,6
343:22 82:11 85:16 253:2,8 46:3,10,10 151:5,25 250:16
344:10,21 90:4 93:5 254:24 46:16,17,19 157:3,11,12 251:9,14
345:22 98:9,15 257:14,17 47:14 49:15 161:15,20 254:13,17
346:5 102:22 258:2,6,7 50:9,12,14 161:25 254:18
347:19 108:18,25 272:11,12 50:23 51:1 162:2,22 256:20
348:2,7,11 109:1 274:18 51:7,12,15 163:25 257:9,9,13
348:19 124:13 280:1 281:2 52:19,21 165:12,14 257:23
350:5,11 130:7,17 283:23 54:18 58:15 165:15 258:4,15
351:11,13 131:7 133:4 284:7 286:8 58:25 59:15 169:1,3,24 259:19,19
353:22 133:6,22,23 292:22 60:22 63:21 175:16 259:22
354:12 134:1,10,21 293:15 65:2,12 176:4,8 261:14,21
355:5,19 135:14 294:2,4,5 66:13 72:5 178:9 264:22
356:24 141:10 299:11 72:20 73:1 183:13 267:23
357:4 145:23 304:25 73:6,8,8,12 188:1,20 268:4 273:2
359:16,20 152:13,14 309:16 75:2,10,14 189:22 273:21
359:24 152:18 310:5,17 75:15,21 190:19,21 278:5
360:1,5,7 157:2 311:5,18,18 78:19 79:18 194:1,14,16 279:22
360:12 160:24 312:17 79:20 80:25 194:23 280:3,19
361:24 164:23 328:6 81:2,15 196:3,23 281:2
362:20 167:25 333:15 82:4,16,19 197:21,22 283:21
364:11,24 168:8 169:3 334:4,18 83:3 84:10 197:23 285:9
365:6 368:3 169:7 170:2 356:12 84:13 85:12 198:16,24 286:17
369:24 170:11,13 365:19,24 86:9 87:3 199:13 288:1 291:5
370:21 178:21 368:14,15 88:25 98:15 200:8 291:13
371:17,23 181:21 376:16 98:23 99:7 205:24 292:5,18
372:2,8,10 182:4 188:2 377:16,18 99:10 103:6 206:8,18,19 293:15,17
372:13 188:8,17,20 377:21 103:12 209:1 294:24
373:11,16 189:4,23 387:12,13 105:3 210:10 297:20
374:5,11,13 192:10 387:20,22 108:19 211:25 298:1,5
374:16 193:17 387:24 109:22 212:12 299:12,18
376:7 194:2 195:5 388:25 110:13,14 214:9 299:25
378:21 199:13 390:16 112:5,13,19 215:14 301:2,3
381:17 200:4 391:5,17 114:8 115:2 216:5,22 304:19,21
382:3 383:6 205:22 kindly 186:25 116:5 120:2 217:23 305:2,4,11
383:16,20 206:9 King 351:10 120:17,18 218:17 306:20
384:1,13,18 211:15,17 King's 351:14 120:19 219:25 307:6,12
384:22 211:20 knew 40:15 122:17,24 224:7,10 310:21,24
385:11 212:21 42:1 148:9 123:24 227:12,19 311:4,8,21
386:4,13,22 216:12 242:20 124:18 230:10,18 311:22
391:11,25 217:1,9,9 258:9,12 128:9 131:6 231:7,9,10 312:3,4,5,8
392:23 218:23 know 9:6,7 131:11 231:15 312:22
kids 240:4 219:5 225:5 9:19,23 133:20 232:4,6,21 313:3,12,15
333:11 230:7,14,16 14:7 17:15 134:7,18 234:12 314:13
kind 10:17 230:24 19:13,15 139:16,16 235:5 320:15,18
17:23 19:10 232:13 21:22 23:8 141:7 142:4 236:19 325:7 326:5
26:16,17 235:19,21 26:8,10,15 143:12,20 238:17 327:5,6,13
40:22 42:8 236:7,10 27:6 29:8 143:20,21 239:3,15,20 327:20
42:11 44:9 237:3,7 30:24 32:12 144:4,17,21 240:4,11 330:1,5,8
46:19 50:10 246:12,15 34:5 37:18 144:25 241:20,25 330:11,14

612.338.3376
Page 423
336:17,19 161:1 192:24 140:25 373:15 Lehman

337:3,11 162:10 193:3 141:23 374:8 378:1 150:17
341:14 198:22 lawsuit 142:21 378:6 379:3 length 169:20
342:8,11 233:25 142:11,14 144:18,19 387:4,19 lengthy
345:5 142:18,22 144:23 388:21 379:14
346:10,10 L 143:5,5 145:2,6,10 391:4,4 letter 7:13
346:12,21 L 8:23 144:24 148:1,4 392:6,9,10 19:24 20:11
346:23 labeled 8:2 lawyer 14:17 153:21,24 395:2 20:12,17
347:6 labor 68:23 52:7 68:22 154:7 leagues 143:23
348:12,13 192:24 114:2 164:7 155:10 283:14 144:5,10,22
350:16,18 193:3,16 257:23 156:8 286:23 145:3,8,13
350:22,24 357:11,17 lawyers 11:2 157:15 287:3 145:15
351:14,14 lack 111:8 142:20 161:5,9 345:13 221:7
351:17,17 223:8 145:23 164:3 165:6 League's 243:21,22
353:5,11 224:21 370:1,4 171:23 169:22 359:10,10
357:6,14,16 231:15 lay 19:10 173:14 223:18 372:24,25
357:19 389:24 46:16 83:25 176:12 239:9 271:8 373:1,4
359:7,18 lacking 308:7 134:22 188:7 292:2 317:3 380:5,11
365:12,20 lacks 91:14 laying 133:1 193:20 351:3 391:17
367:22 113:14 135:6 226:24 league-wide let's 20:14
369:5,9 114:21 lead 73:10 227:6 23:4 377:8 28:20 47:16
373:20,21 154:14,19 114:24 230:23 379:1 47:16,21,21
374:12,15 157:21 123:5 236:22 learn 46:6 47:22 51:15
375:12,23 270:19 leader 260:12 237:18 178:19 51:15,22,23
377:11,13 354:12 378:17 238:3,22 204:5 59:11 62:2
379:6 382:5 Lamoreillo leadership 239:4,18,21 learned 249:9 64:15 65:6
382:17,22 323:2,8,15 46:13 242:10 303:12 65:6 83:19
383:6 Lamoriello 180:13 243:2 leave 87:19 83:20,20
384:11 315:13 257:18 245:19 87:20 129:6 85:12,14
387:19 329:12 leading 22:23 250:7,23 131:15 124:7
388:5,8,8 land 19:10 260:6,8,10 251:1 258:6 132:23 131:16
388:14 84:1 134:22 390:3 260:14,16 140:24 146:20,20
knowing language leads 73:1 275:16 189:17 146:22
156:1,2 159:16 156:8 277:1 225:8 148:15,15
196:11 274:18 Leafs 182:8 278:25 345:12 148:16,17
282:11 342:25 league 1:5 284:11 leaving 347:3 148:17,18
knowingly 355:14 3:22 8:4 286:3,20 led 22:25 148:19,20
243:2 389:19 15:10,24 304:18 23:2 198:6 148:20,21
knowledge languished 17:9,17,18 306:22 259:1,22,24 148:23
84:16 91:11 256:14 17:22 18:8 313:21 260:1,2 149:14
120:10 257:6 18:12,24 320:12 291:19 170:3,4,5,5
138:25 large 379:25 19:1 21:10 321:17 379:7 170:6 176:2
229:14 largely 354:9 21:12,17 330:15 Lee 359:9 178:9 190:5
269:2 Larry 182:6 22:10 28:3 346:22 left 13:18 190:6
325:17 latching 35:4 39:18 347:4,18 14:12 85:4 221:21
knowledge... 168:11 39:22 47:19 348:17 105:10 227:23
330:18 late 73:19,20 50:13 75:12 349:10 359:5,6 231:10,11
knows 74:18 86:8 94:20 350:4 351:6 367:2 231:18,18
126:11 254:10 95:6 97:18 353:4 354:4 374:17 232:6,7,15
155:23 331:21 99:23 101:8 354:10,14 left-hand 244:5
222:12 Lauderdale... 108:17 354:16,20 62:6 261:17
244:25 5:10 233:8 119:19,24 354:24 legal 8:8 10:6 276:10
Korea 94:7 launched 121:4,10 355:15,20 100:18 285:6,6
Kris 351:10 341:24 124:23 355:23 344:18 291:5,5,5,6
351:14 law 1:16 13:6 129:6 138:4 366:21 345:3 355:7 310:5,5
Kutcher 13:13 139:1,12 367:22 357:21 317:23

612.338.3376
Page 424
331:24 261:23 live 306:5 198:11 389:2 loose 247:2

344:12,14 lingering LLP 1:17 2:13 201:3 212:5 looked 25:11 247:22
355:4 55:9 Ln 395:8 217:1 220:2 33:11,17,25 lose 153:17
371:21 link 110:12 log 297:17 223:10 34:17 35:6 losing 79:21
380:5,10 117:1 208:3 logged 224:4 226:7 35:13 36:14 82:14
383:22 208:4 280:16 229:17 37:7 39:2 loss 113:22
level 17:19 389:14,24 logic 331:20 230:4,10,10 64:7 83:22 lost 377:18
17:23 23:4 Lisagar 2:15 logical 232:24 101:16 377:21
23:5,9 96:4 8:19,19 118:18 234:3,15 185:6 195:1 lot 26:11 27:5
99:3 102:20 list 102:23 long 20:3,3,4 235:20 208:6 210:8 27:7 49:11
157:15 134:2 22:9 50:16 236:3,14,15 217:4,13,16 49:12 50:9
163:9 136:25 52:5,6 326:24 217:19,22 50:9 64:18
171:14 273:23 56:22 57:13 327:9,11 232:5 75:24 94:10
181:9 182:4 291:2,8,20 58:21 82:23 333:14 238:18 98:1,4
192:1 239:4 370:12 83:16 99:13 363:2 278:20 105:15
244:16 listen 11:19 102:7,22 long-winded 280:13,15 109:24
277:2,2,2 listened 130:7 255:6 280:19 110:9,10,15
293:24 226:19,21 135:21 look 18:13 284:10 119:14
300:2 litany 135:21 141:21 38:3,18,22 290:15 123:19
304:11 136:5 164:2 51:4 54:8 365:8 138:12
305:12 literally 202:17 55:2,12,21 looking 11:2 160:13,16
382:7 69:19 214:18 61:3,16 33:10 34:8 167:23,25
387:19,20 329:15 229:5 241:6 64:6 65:7 36:1 45:1,8 168:6,9,10
387:21 371:24 253:17 72:23 73:9 46:6,18 168:19,20
388:18,21 literature 254:9 257:6 79:22,24 53:5 58:2 180:7 185:5
388:23 104:3 272:17 87:23 98:16 60:10 65:11 185:8
390:22 153:25 296:6 330:2 101:22,23 65:12 69:8 197:16
392:3,10 154:9 345:13 106:3 109:7 70:22 74:23 205:25
liberty 240:6 155:19 357:24 130:9 77:10 84:10 206:5
life 25:18 156:11,19 370:22 131:24 106:16,18 247:12
lifestyle 157:1 159:2 longer 73:6 132:17 108:24 249:4
234:21 267:15 180:17 146:17,20 129:19,21 255:25
light 244:1 litigation 1:8 longitudinal 147:16 130:6 140:6 256:12
391:5 8:5 10:18 58:22 171:4 140:13 258:6
likelihood 15:18 108:16 191:14,15 152:1 260:25
116:22 146:17 longitudina... 194:19 159:13,14 292:8
limit 379:12 155:4 62:11 63:18 197:24 175:18 358:14
limitations 201:23 65:4 198:10,18 179:1 lots 16:10
10:10 202:3 240:2 longstanding 199:2 206:9 191:17 64:13 75:16
217:10 262:4 362:6 346:21 210:6,15 196:25 116:25
Linden 94:7 395:3 long-term 212:22 204:13 278:19
line 60:23 little 26:4 40:16,19 230:22 205:18 Lou 114:18
62:25 32:20 40:3 44:15 77:4 231:1,12,18 228:6 323:2,9,10
117:25 40:11 119:1 77:12,17,21 238:11,19 232:23 323:15
150:20 124:7 79:11 80:23 242:6,10 234:2,15 329:12
151:3 159:9 165:17,25 82:1 83:11 276:4 278:4 298:5 337:6
310:13 201:24 92:9 130:11 284:2 339:23 Louis 14:5
345:15 202:24 130:13 285:19 340:4 366:4 lousy 87:15
lines 189:15 208:24 131:24 298:3 377:1 Lovell 260:2
216:18 229:11 134:3 315:17 385:14 260:3,8,23
230:2 279:15 135:15 322:15 looks 54:20 260:24
302:11 299:11 137:4,7 345:3 60:21 61:20 lower 99:3
303:13,17 300:25 177:25 375:14 61:25 LTI 327:6,7,9
310:3 323:8 326:6 188:8,9 381:20 152:21 331:4,8,13
336:4 338:11 196:25 383:21 loop 192:2 331:18
linesman 372:15 197:5 387:12 203:20 333:18,25

612.338.3376
Page 425
lunch 175:19 164:19 299:24 67:2 209:16 2:17 190:9 192:7

215:11 309:9,10 228:5 Mayeaux 193:25
M 351:22,24 318:8 240:16 221:7 194:5
M 2:16 352:3 359:13 329:6 Mayo 330:11 195:13
MacLeod 6:20 manages 360:2 380:4 332:10 382:20,25 197:19,20
332:4,24 147:10,10 380:6 335:14 McCray 199:5 201:10
333:1 managing 383:22 339:11 McCrea 206:18
Madam 194:22 marked 43:2 358:2 198:22 207:5 213:5
113:16 260:21 43:6 54:5 372:23 233:23 218:17
main 195:5 mandate 59:22 66:20 381:1 McCredo 1:19 222:11
234:19 93:19 94:20 78:10,15 marriage 8:9 394:3 223:17
235:1 366:25 89:2,9 394:12 394:17 224:17
361:13 mandated 101:4,13 married McKee 115:16 229:22
major 223:6 366:22 104:13,16 280:17 115:18 230:6
284:11 mandatory 132:8,12 Martin 94:14 MDL 1:5 237:11,13
285:14,20 298:1,6 151:9,17 94:15 Meagher 1:17 239:3
286:3,20 313:8 166:18 203:12,15 2:13 4:18 241:15
309:13 367:21 179:8 204:23 7:4 203:5 242:13
making 72:22 manner 182:14,18 230:1 204:14 244:12,20
97:11 122:8 139:1 186:10 Martino 2:16 343:10,16 245:21
138:20 Manny 2:22 200:20,24 8:20,20 344:3 250:2,7
158:22 8:7 203:2,7 Martin's 356:21 256:18
185:8 manufactu... 209:12 202:22 Meagher's 259:12
204:11 94:8 134:5 213:13 Maryland 2:3 204:17 261:4,8
224:20 manufactu... 220:24 match 212:1 301:11 267:9
242:10 327:3 222:16,19 212:2 254:8 mean 14:23 283:21
260:21 Maple 182:8 228:17 271:1 18:20 20:24 284:16
276:19 March 3:15 233:2,11 matching 21:22 26:8 287:2
306:13 4:16 5:22 240:20 172:11 31:5 37:4 289:25
341:24 7:15,20 248:1 materially 37:25 44:6 290:21
348:8 369:2 66:18 108:9 255:12 87:20 49:7 53:12 313:17,23
man 375:24 199:20 283:2,7 materials 60:21 63:21 313:25
manage 47:4 200:22 288:13 20:25 85:20 64:13 65:25 314:7 323:5
47:10 73:4 288:10,20 301:15,20 210:1 67:18 69:24 327:21
124:2,3 290:23 308:15 math 301:3 70:13 73:1 328:3 333:6
147:15 291:18,18 318:12 Matt 8:19,20 74:16 82:15 344:2
170:14 295:22 320:25 383:9 87:2 88:19 346:20
195:2 346:9 321:8,13,24 matter 8:3 88:24 97:23 348:12
management 374:22 322:8 14:21 48:25 106:22 350:12
25:2 32:1 380:12 323:23 69:2,5 107:21 351:21
37:6 38:1 384:6 324:1 326:9 282:5 108:6 356:14
49:25 63:25 Maria 27:20 326:13 304:14 109:12 357:5
73:3 77:25 66:15 215:2 329:2 332:6 326:4 113:7,24 379:20
79:8 80:14 mark 142:4 335:10 354:14,20 120:12 meandering
131:14,22 142:10,13 339:8 343:6 394:13 123:22,25 83:15
170:16,19 142:17 343:12 matters 15:9 126:24 meaning
195:7 237:6 143:7 349:17 15:14,17,18 127:3 135:5 139:20
253:6 186:14 358:6 15:19,22 140:12 344:18
manager 187:9 199:1 360:23 90:1,16 143:3 meaningful
303:11,12 213:7 361:1 373:7 264:21 156:15 249:19
351:20 221:16 374:19,24 341:1 163:11 means
managers 228:23 375:15 MATTHEW 167:4,21 117:16
28:4,6 229:1 260:2 380:6,22 2:15,16 171:1,17 118:7,11,15
29:11 30:12 260:3,8,23 384:8 matthew.li... 172:20 119:3 127:9
31:10,25 260:24 marking 2:17 179:21 138:18,20
32:9 94:9 288:8 53:20 59:17 matthew.m... 189:18 139:2

612.338.3376
Page 426
163:10 258:3 211:11,23 member merge 251:6 Mike 198:21

165:13,15 267:14 213:23 37:11,15 257:21 351:16,17
171:3 275:13 216:25 84:15,21 merger 353:5 359:9
241:12,18 278:4,5 218:5 219:5 86:5 94:1 251:10 mild 115:25
244:19 304:5,8 219:6,8,10 94:21 95:18 252:13 116:14
316:13 305:14 230:8 231:3 286:2 257:11,22 119:4
367:3,4 363:6 233:5,15 members 376:15 121:19
meant 74:3 365:16 303:23 24:23 25:1 382:13 122:22
87:16,18 387:16 311:23 25:4 94:6 merit 143:5 236:4
107:12 388:3 313:2 338:9 102:14 150:14 mileage 50:9
194:6 390:10,17 364:14 162:9 message mind 71:12
222:12 392:8 meetings 180:16 20:6 88:23 105:23
225:20 medically 22:3 29:11 196:18 160:10 106:19
256:7 344:9 118:8 29:12 49:19 207:1,8,10 310:16,19 119:9
384:24 medications 50:23 64:4 213:24,25 313:15,18 181:21
mechanism 10:2 65:15 81:3 310:25 387:14,15 188:2
45:11 Medicine 83:4,6,8 membership 387:25 212:15
media 8:2 76:16 86:13 120:2 26:18 messages 248:15
75:16 meet 50:24 133:24 310:22 87:12 322:21
130:22 115:5 161:24 311:25 messaging 339:20
131:3 178:13 163:17 memo 152:20 310:16 356:18
148:15,20 186:4 207:25 339:25 messing 384:15
160:11,24 294:10,10 258:17 memorializ... 107:16 minds 40:25
161:11 294:11,12 275:10 247:17 met 103:10 mind-boggl...
168:10,11 370:1,22 294:14 memory 108:10 302:25
168:19,22 meeting 3:10 351:22 20:19 29:20 110:1 115:4 mine 154:17
170:1,10,11 3:19,21 5:9 354:5,6 30:3 31:9 115:13 349:6 359:6
224:18 31:10 32:9 meets 306:10 31:24 74:24 236:7 383:19
390:22 38:1,2,4,5 Meeuwisse 76:17 84:2 357:15 Minnesota
391:6 50:24 54:2 3:13 4:6,13 102:13,17 382:18 1:2 304:11
medical 49:4 54:9 60:23 5:1 7:10 113:22 metaphysical minute 30:23
49:6 89:24 61:23 64:9 24:3 37:3 179:18 158:11 123:17
104:3,5 77:25 79:6 48:10 59:20 180:20 methodology 162:17
110:3,4 79:8,15,17 60:1 104:22 181:7 212:6 236:12 271:11
118:4 147:3 79:18 81:7 126:25 212:14 Michael 330:8 317:20
148:5 81:11,18 158:21 223:13 332:15 minutes 3:21
152:12 85:4,5 162:11 371:13 Michigan 5:11 38:3
153:25 88:13 89:5 166:16 385:3,18 12:5,11,25 76:6 81:4
154:4,8,15 89:6 90:24 170:23 memory's 128:7 131:1 101:6,18
154:21 101:6,17,18 179:14 243:13 mid 22:24 198:19
156:18,23 105:17 186:7,20 mental 82:23 294:13 233:9,16
156:24,25 108:13 198:25 177:25 middle 44:19 298:22
157:2,24 115:9,11 220:22 mentioned 55:12 351:22
176:24,25 123:23 221:19 76:20 90:7 104:20,24 359:21
177:5,16 126:9 133:3 227:3,8,17 159:21 132:17,20 368:2
183:14 133:4 237:9,13,15 192:17 133:13 374:14,17
195:20 164:19 237:17 260:23 180:11 383:7
196:20 181:22 240:24 261:6 271:5 182:24 mischaract...
207:10 183:10,14 241:1 242:9 278:9 203:12 198:13
208:1 183:15 243:1,11,21 360:14 241:20 317:6
213:25 184:10 243:23 mentioning 255:19 mischaract...
217:17 188:5 245:2,7,13 99:15 295:9 302:1 207:3
224:22 190:12,12 360:21 merely 379:18 208:21
226:5 190:12,13 361:4 231:21 mid-season mischaract...
244:14 190:14 Meeuwisse's 268:9 291:17 56:25 76:23
257:24 199:21 237:24 270:17 307:8 91:15 92:25

612.338.3376
Page 427
109:11 monkey M-A-Y-E-A-... 161:8 164:3 217:12 neurocogni...

136:21 201:24 221:8 165:6 249:10,11 39:13,24
225:18 month 25:19 169:22 249:12,13 40:17 44:15
226:12 108:14 N 171:22 249:14 50:17 56:23
mischaract... monthly N 2:1,3 3:1 173:14 250:8 255:6 62:18 64:22
66:12 205:5 147:23 8:23 175:12 176:12 302:11 84:4,19,24
misconducts months 51:13 175:12,12 193:19 391:1 90:19 91:1
351:4 324:5 367:9 name 8:7 226:23 necessity 91:6 92:9
misery 343:3 month-to-... 23:20 26:18 227:6 229:16 102:8 109:8
misinforma... 26:22 45:22 63:4 236:22 230:4 114:13,17
238:16 Montreal 161:15,16 237:18 391:22 130:12,13
mislead 88:1 296:20 162:8 219:2 238:2,21 need 36:4 134:3
88:7 214:16 298:13 240:24 239:21 46:25 51:22 136:15
misleading 304:1,2,3 241:20 321:16 56:19 57:13 138:6
87:20 158:1 314:7 324:17 330:15 64:1 71:20 178:14
159:9 214:6 morning 8:12 382:19,24 347:18 75:23 85:7 187:7
214:14 9:4,5 302:3 395:2 348:17 87:12 95:19 188:10
239:13 morphed named 350:3 353:4 105:15 208:8 213:2
misremem... 200:4 219:20 354:3,24 110:16 228:21
356:4 motivated 353:3 355:15 122:18 230:11
missed 106:6 143:20 names 373:15 131:21 232:25
mixing motivations 161:18,21 374:8 378:6 137:15,17 274:12,25
172:11 151:5 257:15 387:3 395:2 157:3 278:7
modification motor 306:7 289:19 nature 18:17 169:19 neurodege...
368:22,25 Mount 76:16 NAN 375:4,17 18:19 174:12 234:8
modified move 14:5 378:5 381:3 106:23 177:4 229:5 neurologist
36:4 52:7,8 Napier 142:5 125:8 235:14 286:14
moment 200:1 142:10,14 192:18 303:25 neuropath...
55:17 76:20 218:24 142:17 206:10 304:23,24 76:16
79:7 90:7 moved 143:8 242:23 305:3 306:2 neuropsych
101:16 218:22 narrow 274:6 309:25 133:7,10
107:7 124:8 moves 216:8 254:14,25 275:17 310:21 141:5 254:4
126:19 230:3 narrower 297:20 312:4,4 254:6
151:7 moving 94:19 303:4 335:6 342:25 256:21
221:12 117:24 narrowly 347:3 355:5 260:2,8,17
229:12 221:24 376:11 357:14 387:12 261:6
271:21 MTBI 362:19 Nascent 49:9 NBA 284:11 needed 49:14 262:10,17
318:20 362:21 National 1:5 necessarily 49:14 79:24 265:9,16
337:23 multidiscip... 3:22 8:4 35:14 168:25 266:9,10,17
391:21 94:4 19:1 21:12 163:18 207:13 266:21,24
moments multipage 22:10 28:2 168:24 303:13,15 275:21
108:25 89:12 39:18,22 231:25 315:13 276:20
208:6 186:15 86:7 101:8 313:17 needing 277:5,22,23
Monday multiple 119:18,24 334:22 325:6 278:11
370:23 122:25 121:4 377:20 needle 230:3 314:17,18
money 123:2 124:23 necessary needs 75:6 315:8,14,22
145:24 143:15 129:5 138:3 51:21 87:12 110:9,10 315:23
227:6 378:5 146:15 139:12 115:25 neglected 376:20,21
378:11 215:14 140:24 116:15 380:4 377:3
monitor 217:6 142:21 117:17 neither 159:4 379:14
127:17 228:22 144:22 118:7,8,14 191:19 382:9
137:8 138:5 275:11 145:2,6,10 119:5 270:1 neuropsyc...
206:14 Murphy 153:21,24 121:17,25 367:21 19:20,21
207:14 351:16 154:7 122:21 neuro 130:7 21:23
monitored Murphy's 155:10 123:18 neurochem... 195:14
97:24 351:17 156:7 161:4 204:2 12:14 252:4,19

612.338.3376
Page 428
253:3,5,9 325:10,14 71:11 73:14 353:8 356:8 NHL1669037 NHL2275298

253:14,24 325:18,23 74:13 92:10 356:22,25 4:9 179:7 3:11 54:4
254:15 325:25 93:25 94:4 358:19 NHL1723000 NHL2304283
274:7 326:4 327:3 94:23 95:3 361:7,10,21 6:18 329:1 4:21 209:11
275:12 328:6,19 95:8,18 364:9 365:9 NHL1783125 NHL2315339
276:3 336:8,21,23 96:7 103:14 366:24 5:2 220:23 6:2 301:19
296:13 356:2,3 103:19 375:4,19,25 NHL1787804 NHL2335906
330:3 388:20 107:2,8 378:20 4:17 200:23 5:13 240:19
334:16 394:4 109:20 381:15 NHL1791667 NHL2466272
376:12 news 163:2 110:23 382:8 6:14 323:22 6:20 332:5
380:1 204:22 111:21,24 383:13 NHL1793860 NHL2469756
neuropsyc... newspaper 112:6,12,18 385:9,15 7:4 343:11 6:12 322:7
21:25 48:8 128:1 113:9 114:8 387:1 389:5 NHL182010 NHL2475474
48:9 259:24 139:22 120:20 NHLPA 19:19 4:19 203:7 6:16 326:12
260:4 NF 286:7 125:18,22 35:4 37:18 NHL1827376 Nicholls
324:17 NFL 14:4 129:24 53:10,21 5:15 247:25 150:17,17
330:1 47:19 71:3 130:1 94:4,24 NHL1831930 nightmare
334:19 71:6,8 131:19 95:9 107:3 7:6 349:16 247:9,22
335:1 75:17 137:7 146:7 NHL1975700 nine 301:7
neurosurg... 125:23 138:11,13 213:24,25 5:18 255:11 NJ 318:16
362:25 127:17,21 141:8 142:7 226:4 NHL1983530 328:2
never 24:1 128:12,15 146:6 311:15 7:21 384:7 335:24
52:1 65:22 129:7 151:20 365:16 NHL2060686 nods 9:15
68:8,12 130:19 155:24 375:4 7:16 374:23 nonappreci...
70:13 84:23 131:16 156:1,2,24 381:16 NHL2062819 354:3
120:14 132:1,24 163:4 382:8 389:5 5:20 283:6 nonathlete
136:9,13 189:17 164:12 NHLPA's NHL2066067 116:8
149:16 225:8 286:7 165:8,9 37:15 6:9 321:7 noncompli...
177:22 286:19 172:10,24 NHLPA/co... NHL2071340 317:3 321:3
197:3 361:22 180:3 187:8 151:21 7:2 339:7 324:13
214:16 362:5,6,18 192:18 NHLPA_00... NHL2081309 325:19
226:8,9,10 362:20,21 193:6 3:18 78:15 3:20 89:8 nonmedical
286:1 363:3,10 200:17 NHL's 17:11 NHL2087294 213:25
287:25 365:9,13,19 203:14 264:8 4:14 186:9 nonspecific
329:15,19 373:24 207:1,8,8 267:22 NHL2110271 234:12
373:22 383:14 208:9 270:9,25 4:3 132:7 non-medical
new 1:17,18 385:5,7,10 213:24 323:16 NHL2131171 207:11
1:20 2:14 385:16,23 225:12 347:9 356:8 6:7 318:11 nope 113:11
2:14 8:25 NFL's 67:9 226:4 368:21 NHL2132286 normal
15:14 76:17 362:13 232:14 NHL/NHLPA 5:5 222:15 278:10
115:11 364:2 237:25 5:9 151:11 NHL2135004 notably
123:25 NHL 3:9 8:17 238:11 233:4,15 4:12 182:13 285:12,16
134:12,15 8:19,20 244:7 NHL0130619 NHL2188574 Notary 1:20
172:17 14:10,13,15 264:14 6:5 308:14 7:8 358:5 8:24 394:4
233:20 14:16,17 269:9 282:3 NHL0209404 NHL2231587 395:25
250:5 256:9 15:4 16:12 282:14 3:24 101:12 7:18 380:21 396:18
256:10 16:23,25 283:14 NHL0231896 NHL2236425 note 107:6
304:5 18:21,22 284:11 5:22 288:12 5:7 228:16 318:22
314:16 19:18 22:18 285:12 NHL0247818 NHL2243154 340:20
315:21 23:15 32:13 286:3 300:5 5:11 233:10 4:7 166:17 345:2 359:4
316:8,15 33:3,6 304:11 NHL0516458 NHL2246968 noted 175:13
317:1,10 37:11 42:2 311:15 6:23 335:9 7:11 360:22 259:16
318:6 319:1 42:3 43:5 333:2 NHL1352051 NHL2254667 396:8
320:3,9,11 49:1 53:2,6 342:14 3:13 59:21 4:24 213:12 notes 60:4,7
324:5,7,8 55:10 67:13 344:13 NHL1626501 NHL2267898 60:13,18
324:12,21 67:21 68:2 346:19 4:1 104:12 3:16 66:19 61:19,20,24

612.338.3376
Page 429
61:24 62:2 222:20 objecting 154:12,19 314:19 376:21

79:15,18,25 228:6 117:21 155:2,6,12 316:10,19 occasions
81:5 107:3 230:20 194:2 157:21 317:4 24:13 81:2
298:21 233:3 234:7 objection 158:23 319:19 81:4 90:9
notices 268:25 22:20 32:10 159:6,19 320:14 90:11
392:11,13 283:1,3 33:14,20 160:5 324:23 365:20
novel 377:5 288:8 299:1 34:18 35:24 164:16 330:25 occur 120:4,5
November 299:2,25 38:8 39:15 167:1 331:19 121:1,3
5:9 6:1,11 308:21,23 40:1 47:25 168:16 340:22 265:1,2
133:1 318:8 48:19 56:1 170:25 342:1 274:8,8,10
134:21 321:24 56:16,25 172:2,9,15 344:10,21 281:1
201:17 329:6 58:13 61:12 173:6,19 347:19 368:20
231:9 335:14 66:11 67:15 193:24 348:2,7,11 occurred
232:13 338:16 68:4,20 194:12,15 348:19 84:14
233:5,16 339:12,24 71:14 72:2 197:2 350:5,11 229:14
301:18,25 351:2 80:8,24 198:12 351:11 occurrences
322:1,5 353:19 81:14 82:25 202:4 353:22 267:3
Nowinski 358:3 361:2 84:6 86:14 207:19 354:12 occurring
169:1 365:25 87:1,22,25 215:23 355:19,21 112:18
NP 61:4 367:15 90:13,20 216:9,11 356:24 147:12
77:14 319:5 372:23 91:2,14 225:14,18 357:4 280:14,17
323:16 380:6 92:23 95:5 226:11 364:11,24 330:5 367:1
328:13,16 390:20 96:12,16,23 227:2 365:6 368:3 occurs
329:16,19 391:18 97:6,20 229:18 373:16 120:23
number 8:2 numbered 100:17 232:20 374:5,11 299:22
15:16 25:10 339:23 103:17,21 234:10 376:7 October 4:14
33:12,15,17 numbers 106:21 236:5,17 378:21 4:19 6:16
42:4 43:2 62:3 187:1 107:11,14 237:19 382:3 6:18,20
44:20 50:25 358:18 107:21 238:14 383:16 186:8 188:3
54:8 59:18 380:13 108:5 242:12 384:23 190:25
61:3 78:11 numerator 109:10,21 243:5 244:3 385:11 203:6
78:24 79:4 280:6,7 111:4 112:2 245:11 390:3,4,12 208:17
83:6,7 numerous 112:9,15 246:10 391:25 326:11
91:23 101:5 266:18 113:3,4,12 248:18 objections 328:25
102:7 113:23 251:8,19 119:10 329:7 332:4
104:17 O 114:15,21 252:1,9 316:22 332:12,21
106:4,7,17 O 175:12,12 116:4,12,18 258:14 objectively oddly 98:8
108:3 113:5 175:12 117:12 259:4,16 327:18 odds 363:5
123:3,4 oath 175:17 118:6,12,20 261:3 observation offend 150:12
124:15,17 object 17:13 119:7 121:6 262:12 308:2 offensive
130:19 18:15 28:12 121:13,21 264:16 observed 148:11
132:12 32:16 36:21 122:2,5,13 267:6 269:3 302:13 149:18
137:12,13 42:25 77:23 122:15 269:11 obtained 225:22
151:10 99:24 123:21 270:19 97:16 offered
160:22 117:19,25 125:6,19,24 271:4 obviously 103:19
161:25 136:6,20 126:7 272:22 39:8 47:23 offhand
175:18 151:2 127:19,25 273:4 70:14 87:3 119:20
179:3 170:18 128:18 275:24 99:16 216:2
182:17,19 176:7,16 129:1,8 279:10 111:13 227:12,19
186:14 208:20 130:5 282:17 115:18 office 33:3,7
194:19 224:13 137:11 286:22 200:10 offices 1:16
196:10 249:25 138:7,15,16 287:15 205:20,25 142:21
198:22 251:23 139:23 289:12 314:1 144:19,19
200:20 272:5 355:6 144:3 293:1 295:3 327:21 155:10
203:3 objected 145:14,25 298:24 346:17 350:4
220:19 53:22 153:8 301:9 370:19 office's 32:14

612.338.3376
Page 430
official 86:7 106:9 352:16 opposite 38:8 39:15 193:4,21

347:13 107:24 356:5 64:23 254:7 87:1,22,25 194:11
officials 108:1,6 359:11,16 opposition 90:20 95:5 200:17
307:4 109:5 112:5 359:17,22 56:7 100:17 213:21
338:12 115:16 360:17 option 73:13 109:10,21 216:20
339:1 117:15 362:3 135:4,17,23 121:6,13 219:2
officiating 123:15 364:25 136:4 125:6,24 228:25
347:9,14 137:24 369:25 140:20 138:8 356:9,21
348:5,16 144:9 370:25 191:19 154:12 357:1 378:1
oh 10:24 148:18 371:23 optional 164:16 392:7,9
12:19 36:18 149:8 375:13 315:14 167:1 padding
55:23 74:3 150:10,15 381:22 options 68:15 168:16 34:12
74:9 94:5 152:3 383:12 ordinary 237:19 pads 34:11
107:24 153:13 omega 321:16 251:19 page 3:2,7
110:20 159:13,21 103:10 organic 12:19 252:1,9 55:3 59:25
126:21 166:9,11,14 104:6 original 271:4 60:20,20
128:25 167:8 170:8 once 10:24 132:25 330:25 62:2,7 75:2
140:16 171:18 23:25 41:12 275:25 344:10 76:21 80:22
149:8 172:18,21 47:2 294:10 originally 353:22 91:21 93:3
162:12 173:6 175:1 334:7 259:22 364:11 93:9 101:21
175:24 176:2 ones 27:13 origins overempha... 101:24
184:5 181:18 29:16 272:14 185:18 132:17,19
217:15 182:9 217:23 orthopedic overly 163:1 132:21
226:21 185:21 260:19,19 258:10 overseeing 135:8,12
229:6 191:24 312:11 259:2,23 17:10,23 171:5
240:13 196:13 359:23 Ottawa 18:1 175:20
242:16 203:2 one-page 307:14 overstating 180:9
243:13 214:15,19 43:9 67:3 outcome 169:17 182:24
282:6 216:13 104:17 117:18 owner 86:5 183:3,4,20
283:21 218:14 255:16 118:17 182:7 186:16,16
284:12 222:3 326:16 119:6 owners 86:1 186:19,25
323:5 240:12,14 329:7 394:13 294:11 203:13,21
337:18 241:7 254:5 on-ice 347:13 outfit 177:19 ownership 204:13
343:5 346:8 265:7,19 opening 177:21 30:15 207:11
363:10 267:9,12 149:22 219:12 O'Neil 18:2 209:18
370:23 269:17 opinion 118:7 outline 88:21 221:6,6,15
380:6 270:5 280:5 118:21,22 outrageous P 233:19
okay 9:13,20 282:20 363:6 148:11 P 2:1,1 241:1,9
9:21 11:18 284:15 opportunity 149:17 PA 24:10 243:20
11:21 23:13 287:17 180:14 outset 17:15 27:13 55:15 248:5 291:9
24:19 28:1 290:22,23 386:7 314:16 56:21 58:12 302:1,22
30:14 31:20 293:13 oppose 56:22 outside 51:17 61:8,10 303:18
32:25 33:1 295:6 298:2 81:8 136:1 64:20 69:2 306:23
34:16,23,24 300:20 opposed 144:18 70:2 84:2,3 308:22
35:1 36:20 301:2 302:8 64:20 81:12 198:20 84:15,16,21 309:5
38:14 40:5 308:20 81:15,21 199:11,17 84:22 85:1 311:12
44:2 48:12 309:18,20 90:18,25 200:6 91:5,8,9,12 319:14
48:24 51:15 311:7 319:8 91:5,9 231:12 92:21 95:12 322:2,16
53:9,19 319:13,25 95:24 280:23 96:8 104:5 332:13
57:10 70:12 321:19 105:24 282:13 109:7 339:18,23
70:22 72:23 322:24 126:12 363:5 131:19 340:18
78:5 79:6 325:17 213:3 376:21 156:25 341:11
85:19 88:6 332:9 339:4 231:21 outspoken 181:19 358:11,15
93:13,15 340:1 268:9 164:9 183:12,23 358:24,24
97:3,8,24 344:14 304:25 Overbroad 184:12 358:25,25
102:2 103:3 348:3 335:2 32:10 33:14 192:18,25 359:1,1,2

612.338.3376
Page 431
361:3,7,9 paragraphs 134:15 Pebble 3:23 79:4,22 perception

362:14 55:13 143:10 101:9 83:18,19 184:8,18
365:25 187:13 156:21 peer 96:10,19 86:1 89:17 185:13
375:14,15 Pardon 191:6 192:5 103:24 89:18 94:11 Perez 183:5
391:18 180:25 192:16 168:5 115:5,14 performed
pages 54:16 381:19 193:5,20 281:17 146:17,22 324:7
54:19,23 paren 249:21 194:9,12 282:22 149:1,2,5,6 period 45:9
60:4,8,11 249:22 206:1 209:3 peer-review 149:9,11 99:13 109:8
60:12 358:9 375:25,25 229:8 281:15 159:15 223:12
358:14,18 Parkinsonian 234:22 peer-revie... 160:9 163:5 224:3 255:2
372:24 112:8 239:24 176:15 163:7 280:15
396:4 114:19 251:5 252:6 177:6 167:18 293:18
pagination Parkinson's 271:1 290:4 281:12,24 168:13,18 294:15
55:2 114:19 292:12 282:8,16 169:6,23,25 305:25
paid 98:1,4 part 26:13 303:7 Pellegrini 171:24 314:22
227:6,10,18 27:1 35:2 317:19 6:11,14 172:6,24 315:25
256:16 71:7 99:20 351:19 315:10,16 176:5 316:2,3,6
314:9 378:5 100:13 353:24 316:7,14 178:13 327:1
pain 342:24 140:19 355:3 319:22 181:16 329:24,25
342:24 190:3 229:3 356:15 320:1 322:3 183:11 347:10
painful 231:19 371:6 388:8 322:5,17,25 184:3,4 362:25
249:16 244:23 388:9 323:21 185:5 200:8 363:4,6
Pal 19:10 249:5 266:2 390:19 324:3 200:14 376:2,4
panel 24:24 266:3,3,9 392:16 Pellman 204:6 periods 26:7
25:2 26:9 266:19 particularly 364:6,8,16 207:17 83:16 90:2
37:6 38:1 274:15 101:1 104:9 364:20,23 213:21 Perl 76:13
63:25 77:25 277:6,23 109:19 365:4 217:9 permit
79:8 80:14 293:21 157:7 penalize 253:13,17 270:16
94:3,3,4 310:11,15 353:13 347:21 256:15,23 289:11
98:3 245:24 311:3 parties 349:3 276:16,17 permits
246:2 313:18 394:11 penalized 277:13 197:11
254:18 325:9 parts 121:2,2 348:22 278:15,17 permitted
paper 64:9 328:12 358:23 penalties 286:7 347:17,18
240:5 348:18 party 321:12 351:2,7 302:15 347:23,24
335:15 349:25 patients penalty 262:1 308:23 348:18,22
362:17 350:13,13 161:2 162:1 Penn 13:9,12 310:12 348:25
papers 367:16 163:6,14,21 13:15,18 325:2 348:6 350:17
362:24 379:23 163:23 Pennsylvania 349:25 person 17:16
363:11,17 384:18 258:18 2:9 350:2,3 32:14 33:4
paragraph participants Paul 27:18 penny 2:7,9 351:9 117:16
55:13,18,22 350:6 61:19 63:8 3:17 8:15 352:21 153:23
60:25 70:23 participate 63:10,17 8:15,16 361:15 155:21
71:1 102:3 89:15 80:17 94:7 73:24 74:20 369:23 156:1,2
106:10 participated 183:16,17 78:12,24 387:17 222:8
140:14 19:1 22:18 189:1 79:3 296:4 people's 324:18
170:22 34:10 198:24,25 penny@law... 61:22 361:13
171:5,11,17 342:14 pause 45:13 2:10 percent personal
175:20,25 participating 153:17 penultimate 299:3 138:25
176:1,21 318:17 pay 312:14 153:3 300:11,19 334:3
180:11,12 319:5 328:9 paying people 11:21 300:19 351:18
183:22 participation 256:23 13:25 14:3 301:7 352:9,18
203:23 320:19,20 257:10,10 14:9 17:20 344:12 364:19
216:19 327:15 pays 378:11 18:7 23:16 percentage 388:16
223:25 particular PA's 213:3 27:23 50:10 27:3 personalities
302:9 366:5 104:8 355:18 59:3 64:14 percentages 342:9
379:18 109:13 PA-wide 23:5 73:3 78:2 239:8 personality

612.338.3376
Page 432
113:21 371:5 placement 25:15 27:23 328:13 125:13,17

personally phrase 96:25 331:4,8,14 28:3,10,14 329:17 128:17
30:6 36:18 193:7 places 266:19 28:17,21,25 331:8 129:6
37:11,14 224:11 plaintiffs 2:2 29:4,17,21 333:25 130:11,19
39:10 247:10 2:7 3:7 8:4 30:12 31:10 334:19 131:10,20
100:11 phrasing 8:14,16 9:7 32:7,14 366:14 134:13,16
128:4 145:5 219:4 143:18 35:18 36:5 368:1,9,18 134:16
145:21 physiatrist 144:1 43:17,20 388:2,8,11 135:9 137:4
160:4 235:18 145:23 47:13 49:2 players 1:7 137:7
168:13 physical 386:25 50:16 51:3 14:25 15:13 139:19,20
172:5,23 100:20 plaintiff's 58:3,21 18:14 19:2 141:6,8,20
178:4 181:5 120:23 52:7 65:4 66:16 19:17 20:1 141:20,22
226:23 287:7 347:3 planned 67:13 73:14 20:10 21:11 141:24
297:13 physician 226:10 74:14 75:13 21:18,22 143:20
323:7 118:3 plans 80:11 77:8,18 22:3 33:12 144:23
352:15 242:16 139:3 83:10,11 33:18 36:15 145:2,7,11
382:18 246:13,23 201:25 99:17,21 40:16,21 145:16,17
personnel 251:6 play 44:23 100:25 41:4 42:4 146:10
27:13 252:21 131:15 105:16 44:11,14 147:1,5
176:12 260:10 147:16 107:9,9,17 46:22 47:2 148:2,25
216:8 313:8 263:20 195:8,17 107:18 47:8 49:16 150:23
perspective 265:21 253:8 254:2 112:19 49:25 51:8 152:11
17:11,17 268:20 267:2,10 135:14 53:2,6 157:14
93:14 309:11 268:22 138:10 55:16,25,25 159:17
146:19 334:2 367:2 269:8,10,19 161:9 163:1 56:4,4,6,9 160:9,17
160:20,21 physicians 269:23 163:18,19 56:10,11,15 161:5,13,19
160:21,25 17:24 18:4 270:17 163:19 56:23 57:15 163:4
163:14 18:5 19:7 271:21,24 199:21 57:15,24 164:13
170:11 21:25 22:21 272:2 215:13 58:10,14,16 165:8 177:3
250:8 160:22 274:11,23 216:7 218:4 59:10 61:4 180:1,19
254:23 167:20 275:19 218:7,9 62:11 63:18 185:7 190:1
273:11 188:14 277:11,14 219:9 64:21 65:8 194:18
290:9,12 195:15 279:7,13 244:23 65:9 67:10 199:24
292:2 258:23 285:13,20 253:24 67:14 68:19 213:3
293:19 260:12,18 286:15 254:3,6 71:24 75:7 215:18,20
294:8 265:24 287:13,20 261:16 75:17 77:14 215:22
312:22 275:9 314:2 289:6,9 262:21 79:12 82:10 216:15
313:12 366:23,24 296:1 263:8,16,19 82:12,20,22 217:1,6
323:16 367:22 328:15 264:2 84:19,24 218:6
352:20 369:7 329:21 265:13 85:8 90:18 228:22
379:2 376:18 332:20 266:7 267:2 90:25 91:6 229:24
Pg 395:8 physician's 333:22 274:23 92:11 94:7 230:12,13
pharmaceu... 294:9 334:1 276:1,1 98:2,10 230:14,20
13:16 pick 391:16 345:11 278:7 279:8 100:14 232:14
phase 17:1 picked 199:7 363:12 281:3,18,19 102:11 253:7,19
314:6 piece 152:15 366:6 287:12,19 103:11 260:20,22
320:15,17 pieces 257:19 played 290:7,9,10 105:1,12,25 264:14
320:21,22 pilot 45:2 168:23 290:10,25 108:16,20 267:19,19
PHATS 134:2 196:1 291:21 111:24 268:5,8,10
303:22 pinpoint 330:14 293:19 113:5 268:11
311:23 19:15 346:24 296:18,23 114:25 269:20,23
338:9 340:7 place 109:4 347:5 297:25 116:20 273:10
340:8,25 137:8 138:4 player 3:14 300:9 306:7 119:24 274:8,10
phone 126:17 225:24 18:9 22:18 306:8 120:9,15,21 275:15
319:18 277:24 23:16 24:4 313:12 121:2 276:23
338:16 303:17 24:16 25:11 327:11 124:14,16 277:8,12,14

612.338.3376
Page 433
278:10,25 254:2 108:12 policies 271:1 366:20 161:24

279:22 333:17,21 110:12 policy 239:9 postal 247:9 162:8
287:6 333:22 121:7,17 268:25 247:22 257:25
288:17 368:10 125:12 269:13,21 postmortem 278:4,6
289:9,14,19 player-spe... 135:13 270:10 42:5 281:6
291:6,10 388:12,25 144:5 153:4 271:8 post-concu... preceded
292:11 Player/Club 167:5 political 69:1 20:2 40:17 264:11
293:19,22 151:12 175:22 69:5 193:3 103:13 precise 28:24
299:13,14 playing 33:25 176:22 193:16 329:20 330:6
301:7 305:8 35:15 36:3 192:16,22 200:15 post-game precisely
305:16,20 38:7 39:8 194:12 politics 258:7 277:22 29:16 30:1
305:20 93:17 204:9 poll 353:18 post-injury 38:2,17
306:6 307:1 164:14 212:20 polls 353:19 19:23 58:23 59:1
308:2 165:6,9 230:13 353:20 252:20 65:12
309:14,24 187:8 208:9 236:24 354:7 377:14 123:11
310:10,13 264:20 237:1 238:6 poor 168:3 post-mortem 209:7 212:2
310:14 333:23 239:25 population 232:3 232:6 300:1
311:4,11 355:1,2,23 245:18 39:14 111:3 potential 303:4,14,16
312:5,6,10 387:3 388:4 249:11 111:23 37:22 102:4 311:18
313:11,13 388:15 254:14 112:7,12,13 102:21,24 precursors
313:15,16 playoffs 277:7,10 113:11 103:11 113:20
313:17 296:25 278:21 114:10 105:10 predicate
314:18 plays 351:25 301:7 116:8 130:15 167:13
315:5,8,23 please 8:11 308:25 populations 164:14 204:10
316:8,11,15 8:22 38:12 310:6 130:4 165:5 210:13
324:8,9 38:25 66:24 315:19 portray 191:11,13 predictive
340:16 70:4 84:20 323:13,14 169:16 226:6 234:8 279:20
341:2,9 106:2,7 324:16 Port-mortem 387:2 280:20,24
345:11,12 113:15 334:5 232:2 potentially 281:8,10
346:22 152:2 158:3 339:22 posed 194:10 180:18 282:1
350:7,14,19 173:20 353:10 position PowerPoint predictor
350:24 203:22 357:8 362:4 123:7,8,12 87:7 282:9
352:4,10 255:21 364:13 139:10 PowerPoints predictors
354:21 273:5 367:1,23 142:22 29:13 279:21
363:3,12 281:23 376:13 205:16 PR 49:11 prefer 382:5
373:13 295:10 pointed 213:4 148:20 preliminary
376:19 316:21 208:11 214:25 170:11 210:3 211:1
377:12 362:14 300:8,18 220:11 238:25 premedical
378:25 375:22 pointing 356:8 244:7,10,12 12:21
387:1 plenty 240:13 177:18 positioned 244:13 premise
388:14 plexi 98:11 points 59:3 139:13 357:12 194:4
390:10,11 plug 305:3 83:21 108:7 positions practical 223:21
390:17,18 plugged 151:14 123:1,4,13 57:20,23 preparation
390:20 250:10 152:16 possible 160:20 20:13
391:23 plus 268:19 192:13 68:10 73:12 261:9 211:22
392:16,16 point 19:14 209:7 92:17 368:19 prepare
395:2 25:21 26:25 236:23 100:15,19 practice 90:3 88:10,16,21
player's 32:14 33:3 249:7 265:3 109:20 239:5 89:13 340:3
14:24,24 41:6,16,17 276:5 110:14 258:13 340:12
71:20 43:17,21 293:13 129:13,21 333:20 361:12
120:11,16 44:6 51:25 315:6 187:3 191:3 357:17 369:17
120:21 58:20 70:13 361:20 205:10 practices 370:1
215:9,10 70:17 80:17 389:4,5 225:11 272:11 371:12
217:3,11,14 82:14 88:6 poisoned 279:17 practitioners prepared
217:21 96:3 99:1,4 363:17 291:1,11 114:1 20:18 85:20
244:25 99:11 107:5 police 350:8 345:5,10 160:15 151:22,25

612.338.3376
Page 434
152:22 253:12 pro 154:3 336:23 69:19,21 362:8,11,12

361:14,16 256:25 proactively proceed 12:2 75:5 76:22 362:13
preparing 325:22 134:19 69:12 70:19 90:14 100:2 364:3,10
88:3 89:16 prevent probably 107:6 184:7 100:7 365:10,14
133:4 120:18,19 16:8 18:6 201:25 101:25 365:16,23
preseason prevented 26:7 27:4 218:22 131:18 376:12,20
329:20 120:15 27:10 29:7 257:16 137:8 138:4 376:22
presence 345:20 29:8 30:1 365:15,22 138:13 377:4,6,8,8
263:23 preventible 33:9 65:14 proceeded 141:2,4 377:12,15
present 2:21 344:13,19 79:16 80:19 69:5,6 145:12 378:25
86:16 87:4 345:17,19 87:10 89:14 193:15 146:7,8,13 379:1,4,9
87:6,9,11 346:11,15 90:3 94:6 246:22 148:12,14 380:1 382:8
88:12,17 prevention 107:3 128:1 proceeding 148:17,21 382:9 385:8
133:14 31:7 167:5 223:19 148:23 389:6
154:8 previous 188:23 process 9:8 149:13,15 programs
180:18 21:10 192:7 14:8 30:21 151:9,11,21 137:12,13
231:21 204:10 196:15 65:13 171:24 139:5,5,6
263:24 273:15 199:1 188:21 177:12 284:10
338:8 324:6 207:23 226:5 193:18,23 376:23
340:24 previously 216:23 248:21,22 195:14 377:20
presentation 187:19 220:13 248:24 235:16 382:21
28:9,18,21 191:7 224:23 249:1,2,11 236:8 251:2 progress
28:24 29:20 233:24 238:25 250:12 252:4,5,18 251:16,21
29:25 30:4 370:9 239:2 246:1 252:25 252:19 progressed
30:14,25 primary 18:7 258:1 255:7 253:3,4,10 207:14
31:2,14,18 387:17 269:13 257:11,12 253:11,12 progresses
102:22 prior 11:1 274:25 257:16 253:22 204:7
273:22 22:8,11,13 284:3 285:1 281:15 254:25 206:15
284:2 340:6 22:15 23:2 285:23 333:14,16 255:24 prohibit
340:8,13 109:11 294:13 334:5,6,7 256:12,14 269:9,18,22
360:15 133:24 302:7 334:22 260:2,7,9 285:14
361:8,11 153:25 315:18 produce 272:10,25 347:21
presentati... 155:14 319:23 352:7 274:6,14,16 prohibited
28:1 29:1,5 156:4 157:8 337:18 produces 275:1,2,10 277:14
29:12 30:11 190:17 341:17 279:3 275:13,18 344:23
85:20 86:21 229:25 345:15,17 product 21:5 276:1,10,12 prohibiting
275:8 340:4 274:1 351:21 142:25 276:13,20 277:15
presented 355:12,20 365:4 367:7 146:5 202:7 277:1,6 prohibitively
29:2 50:25 355:24 369:20 355:7 362:1 284:1,3,4,5 68:9,13
72:7 85:2 390:11 370:21 professional 284:6 285:8 prohibits
88:24 90:8 priorities 371:24 125:18 294:16 269:8
109:13 53:15 99:22 375:12 153:15 304:9 312:1 project 17:11
185:5 141:11 378:15 164:15 313:6 17:24 18:2
270:24 191:9 Probert 234:5 314:17 19:13,17,21
341:4,5 priority 47:18 184:15 332:20 315:2 317:3 20:1,7
presenting 47:22 77:6 190:16 379:3 320:16 22:24,25
88:8 152:17 81:23 82:19 Probert's profile 321:4 45:2,6
310:18 100:8,9,10 182:21 148:16 323:11 92:18
preserve 132:2 183:6 program 325:15,19 129:23
383:7,24 135:13,23 problem 44:5 32:24 33:4 325:23 133:12
384:1 136:25 65:23 33:11,11,16 326:1 134:2 156:9
president 189:21 260:14 33:24 34:4 327:16 156:13
16:16,20 private 50:11 281:9,11 34:7,17,20 328:10,12 237:12
378:4 50:14 326:23 34:21 40:15 336:20,24 246:12
pretty 14:7 310:21 337:4 44:19,22 337:17 260:11,17
102:22 privy 77:20 problems 57:19 69:14 361:7,10 260:18

612.338.3376
Page 435
280:4,6,7 85:1 188:15 290:19,24 134:4 187:7 173:11 290:21

280:13 189:1 198:2 291:17 208:8 213:2 purported 293:15
301:14 199:19,23 292:3,7,16 public 1:20 208:4 327:11
304:18 211:14,24 292:25 8:25 139:21 224:19 334:14
projects 18:6 218:25 293:8 294:5 185:8 271:9 368:16
19:7 26:24 230:9,13,15 294:23 204:17,19 purpose 380:18
75:8 91:23 230:25 295:15 224:18 19:25 20:7 383:24
92:2 102:5 234:23 296:1,10 281:14 87:13 puts 348:6
102:21 proposal's 297:16 394:4 188:24 379:14
129:22 187:21 299:8 304:9 395:25 197:3 253:9 putting 31:4
133:5 propose 304:13 396:18 361:23 46:12,14
191:12,13 51:19 305:17 publication purposes 59:6 189:1
284:5 123:20 313:22 196:22 101:4 226:1 243:2
promote 375:3 314:5,12 Publications 110:22 244:11
33:18 36:4 proposed 335:24 362:25 170:12 305:19
promoting 56:14 69:23 336:14 publicity 245:19 P.C 2:7
99:21 108:3 366:5 148:14 250:13 p.m 5:10
pronoun 159:16 protocols 167:25 253:15 175:13
176:4 215:7 272:9 168:2 262:18 233:6 393:4
pronounce 216:20 273:12 publicly 50:8 266:6,21
45:22 217:13 275:20 205:16 276:18 Q
219:14 proposing 277:24 206:9 208:3 331:4 qualification
235:9 67:20 104:1 283:13 238:23 336:13 356:13,15
proof 173:16 378:10 provide publish 357:19 qualified
proper 49:24 propounded 196:16 171:23 369:2 331:8,17
50:1 52:11 396:6 249:20 published pursuant qualify
296:18 propriety 304:7,24 103:25 262:2 331:13,16
properly 223:19 313:3 195:18,20 289:16 quality 168:4
124:2 prospective 387:21 268:2 push 226:24 quantify
289:16 217:15 388:22 269:13 279:15 25:17 27:2
299:7 protect 49:1 391:2 281:16 pushing question 9:18
prophylactic 134:9 provided 363:10 48:16 9:23 11:1
103:12 350:18 20:16,24 376:16 push-back 20:22 21:14
proposal protected 30:18 40:20 Publishes 313:14 25:23 29:23
51:18 55:5 122:14 144:14,22 362:24 push-pull 30:2,7,8
59:12 83:21 161:13 196:3 pull 108:20 170:2 32:12,14
85:18 protective 267:18 232:7 put 42:24 33:15 34:7
179:23 34:15 276:1 299:21 43:22 44:9 35:15 36:15
187:13,16 protects 278:25 306:6,7,8 47:22 64:8 38:11 40:25
188:18 147:9 294:4 304:4 pulled 46:4 85:17 87:7 41:2,7,17
192:6 198:6 protocol 307:3 337:8 281:2 105:6 41:19 48:12
201:10,20 46:17 370:12 293:20 136:25 48:21 52:5
208:7,19 195:11 388:11,23 pulling 187:15,19 52:6,16
210:3,8 261:17 391:7 133:22 188:1,19 57:11 68:12
211:2,15,17 262:23,24 provider 188:23 189:20 74:6,10
220:1,5 263:15,18 388:18 189:4 199:23 84:9,9,20
221:3 267:22 provides 260:15 201:11 87:15,24
222:22 268:3,16 244:6 296:17 239:12 88:15 89:13
223:3,15 270:25 263:15 305:15 242:14 93:10 94:19
231:13 272:1,1,3,8 providing pulls 147:11 243:25 96:15,17,24
234:19,22 273:16 15:9 304:15 Pulver 27:16 250:24 99:25 100:4
proposals 274:2,22 306:3 310:9 37:20 77:21 252:24,25 103:18
51:1,3 64:6 280:11 provision 80:6 212:3 258:5 106:1,14,15
64:8,12 283:11 356:3 225:9 265:24 110:14,17
65:15 83:4 285:8 286:9 psychologi... purity 171:7 272:18 110:19,21
83:21,23 289:11,17 92:9 102:8 172:25 273:22 111:1,9,10

612.338.3376
Page 436
111:14,16 259:7,13,14 231:4,6 298:22,23 378:19 185:23

111:18,19 259:15,20 232:11 299:4,4 381:7,15 205:5 229:3
111:20 262:13,14 234:19 302:9,12,13 reach 103:23 334:24
113:13,15 265:6,18 235:1 302:16,17 323:15 384:3
114:6 116:9 271:20,22 265:23 302:25 reached reads 243:14
118:4,5,9 276:21,22 271:6,10 308:24,25 42:13 302:9 395:8
120:8,9,17 279:6,12 273:2 286:1 326:25,25 103:22 ready 12:2
122:13 281:22 299:10 328:1,2 130:24 253:7 254:2
128:11 287:9,16 305:1,5 329:14 246:20 real 160:23
135:20,24 289:13 360:4 367:8 331:9,9 248:25,25 170:2 193:8
136:7 293:3 371:25 340:13 289:23,24 224:20
137:16,18 294:22 372:7 376:3 347:17 342:17 281:8,10
137:19,21 295:10 381:25 362:23 reaching 282:1
137:25 296:3 383:8 386:8 363:6,17,18 256:19 341:12
138:3,19,24 299:23 386:24 363:18,18 reaction 360:4
139:10,15 300:17 391:11,12 375:24,24 78:20,22 realities
139:17 310:2 396:6 383:14 109:14,15 192:24
140:3 314:10 quick 40:8 quoting reactions realized
149:21,25 322:18 52:13,13 247:17 83:22 377:4
150:3,4,7 343:21 102:23,23 read 36:9 really 16:5
154:5 353:14 quickly 69:8 R 56:17 57:8 19:14,19,25
155:16,20 355:9,11 70:22 93:3 R 2:1 8:23 58:4 89:20 20:1,5,7
155:22 356:7 357:6 101:23 175:12 113:16,17 26:19,21
158:3,5,11 357:18 200:19 318:23 117:9 125:9 30:20 34:1
158:16,20 358:21 203:20 319:1 394:1 125:12 40:24 41:4
160:7 376:8 385:1 204:7 358:1 radar 47:17 128:1 44:16,20
162:20 386:5 387:6 374:18 50:18 130:22 46:10,16
164:25 387:23,24 quiet 262:24 102:24 131:3 47:7,10
165:1,7,11 388:2 366:18 136:18,23 142:13 52:3,4
166:4 questioned quite 28:16 142:1 150:3,4,6 58:17,18,19
167:13 210:5 121:4 rail 224:8,11 158:3,4,15 58:25 59:6
172:12,13 questioning 180:14 224:24 165:2,4 59:10 69:13
172:14,17 118:1 282:25 225:2 167:8,10 69:15 72:13
172:19 150:20 quote 21:10 rails 225:11 173:21,23 73:8,11,11
173:7,9,20 151:3 159:9 21:11 62:11 Raimondi 187:10 75:4,23,25
173:24 349:9 62:12 78:6 300:5,18,21 196:16,19 82:13 83:12
174:5,12,13 377:17 78:7 79:10 301:4,10 204:1 205:6 87:16,18
174:15,25 questions 79:11 81:13 raised 41:11 214:3,11 92:21 93:10
187:8 11:19 31:6 84:3,5 41:23 65:24 241:5 244:4 107:15
191:21 36:12 38:16 116:1,1,3 66:15,15 248:20 109:2
194:9 38:19 40:7 129:6,7 77:5 241:22 255:22 110:18
204:10 41:14 132:23,24 241:24 263:2,3 123:22
205:24 109:25 169:7,7,19 raising 168:9 266:18 124:1 131:7
210:11,12 110:10 180:13,19 Rangers 269:2,4 131:13,16
210:14 122:11 184:20,21 349:8 270:5 131:18
213:1 214:7 126:15,17 187:6,9 ranging 281:16 132:2
221:16 152:18,19 203:24,25 351:23 284:14,18 133:17
225:15,21 157:13 204:1 208:7 ranking 284:23 134:1,6,10
226:15,18 159:3,12 209:25 191:9 339:20 134:14,17
228:11,20 167:17 210:6 211:1 ranks 374:8 343:22 137:2
228:23,25 168:6 180:7 214:2,2 rare 222:8 366:8 138:18
229:8 232:9 205:25 223:12,25 rate 97:17 384:13,15 156:1
237:20,23 206:6 228:20 99:8 141:15 385:24 165:12
252:23 207:16 244:1,2 rates 97:9 395:8 396:3 169:25
253:4 214:13 249:17 98:12 130:3 reading 185:9
254:12,13 223:8 231:2 256:3,25 rationale 128:7 188:23

612.338.3376
Page 437
190:8,12 82:9,11 229:10 260:13 345:22 176:9,17,21

193:4,20 98:24 236:6,10,18 328:7 372:18,21 177:8 184:5
194:1,11 114:23,25 250:22 379:24,25 380:3,9 184:13
195:15 150:9,24 251:15 381:15 381:17 191:22
199:25 196:10 261:4 recollection 386:17,20 197:19
201:19 214:24 294:24 15:3 29:10 394:8 198:8 201:3
206:8,10,19 231:19 298:14,16 58:11 76:19 recorded 8:2 206:25
210:5,15,22 242:3 298:17,19 79:17 89:22 60:19 249:17
212:15 298:11 298:25 90:6 103:5 285:14 255:5
214:2,9,20 395:8 314:25 104:4 records 265:17
214:22 reasonable 324:12 105:21 217:17 323:6
217:9 63:5 65:5 325:4,8,16 117:13 244:14 329:20,22
225:15,22 68:1 388:6 331:1,2 129:3 recover 40:18 330:6
240:4,11 reasons 348:3,8 143:16 134:14 349:20
242:22 30:22 47:20 363:9,23,25 178:6,7,16 recross 350:2,6,7
245:3 77:12 369:4 374:1 179:22 386:11 351:10,16
246:25 135:16,22 374:6 375:2 181:10 redirect 351:19
248:24 135:24 387:5,5 183:19 166:2 381:8
250:15 136:4,5,18 389:20 189:3 191:1 284:17 390:16
251:10 193:16 recap 133:6 208:23 reduce 34:12 refers 60:25
252:16,18 244:21 receive 219:11 reduced 63:2,10
253:18 261:2 287:21 247:15 262:3 93:19 105:3
255:7 279:24,25 received 286:18,25 reexamine 140:14
257:24 296:11,15 145:18 295:20,23 147:17 171:6 176:5
258:21 REBU 203:12 177:22 317:18 refer 34:20 216:19
262:16 recall 12:24 178:3 320:2 34:21 58:2 refill 383:9
266:16 13:14 16:17 269:15 334:23 70:23 refine 307:10
272:9 18:10,16 287:12,19 341:22 131:25 reflect 81:5
274:15,17 28:23 29:18 287:25 342:2,3 177:10 91:5 107:3
280:9,13 37:13 52:22 289:5 308:4 353:25 reference reflected
292:9 65:24 66:13 321:15 370:16 106:4 60:20
293:17 68:14,21 390:19 383:1 131:15 274:19
302:25 74:11 80:3 receiving recommen... 167:22 reflecting
304:13 90:22,22 178:16 379:13 168:3 207:6 80:1
320:16,17 91:3,18 Recess 76:10 recommen... 234:18 reflection
328:7 97:14 105:9 127:14 267:18 327:6 390:1 61:15
337:17 105:13 175:11 378:4 referenced 244:10
344:16 106:22 228:2 reconcile 170:19 reflections
345:1,6,6 125:7 128:7 271:17 310:2 389:4 223:2
345:14,15 142:19 318:2 record 9:16 references reflects 61:7
346:25 156:14,17 372:19 76:9,12 154:1 67:8 318:25
357:11 158:18 386:18 113:17 156:20 321:1
362:11 159:20 recirculating 127:13,16 referencing refresh 20:18
365:18 173:12 187:18 150:6 158:4 225:4 20:19 58:11
376:3,5 179:19 211:21 158:15 389:23 74:23 76:17
377:3,22,23 181:14,17 recognition 165:4 referred 81:7 76:19 93:4
382:7,13 181:18 376:1 377:2 173:23 128:21 102:13,17
387:20 183:8,13 377:23 175:10,15 162:1 105:21
388:1,11,17 189:12 378:1 381:6 181:1 201:7 252:10,15 178:7
realtime 195:19 382:10 228:1,4,8 352:22 179:18
292:22 196:6 197:8 recognize 263:3 366:12 180:20
306:5,14,16 197:9 101:20 271:16,19 373:3 181:7
reason 20:7 208:10 375:24 317:24 referring 208:23
24:15,18 211:6,10 recognized 318:1,4,5 55:19 71:18 212:6,13
27:22 41:2 212:2,17 217:10 321:17 78:3 79:7 223:13
53:13 55:1 223:22 recognizing 339:22 80:19 92:1 296:17

612.338.3376
Page 438
339:2 389:11 215:25 289:16 252:21 238:13

370:16 relationships 216:3,12 290:10 265:13 representing
385:3,18 139:7 219:2,6 291:10 266:3 9:7 348:15
refreshed 141:22,23 220:10 renew 362:9 278:10,16 represents
269:17 relative 237:16 renewal 278:18 86:3
383:2 94:15 238:1,5,8 273:22 283:18,22 request
refreshes release 238:15 360:15 283:25 15:20
179:21 204:22 242:14 361:8,10 284:25 require 68:19
refused 82:23 released 245:6,7 362:7 285:10 192:25
regard 205:11 246:5,6 reorganize 290:7 required
364:23 244:7 247:2 368:17 293:23 290:24
regardless relevant 90:2 251:22,24 reorganized 311:25 296:13
57:24 283:24 256:13,17 368:16 332:12,15 317:1
Reggie 73:18 302:15 256:22 repairs reported requirement
73:21 reliable 72:21 257:3,4,7 202:11 133:9 95:7
107:19 234:3 258:16 repeat 21:14 253:19 requiring
registry 249:15 269:7,14 33:15 84:20 268:14 99:11 172:7
333:2,3 363:24 271:6,10 96:24 106:1 284:3 173:15
regression relied 98:20 286:2 113:15 285:23,24 reread
97:8 rely 154:16 288:25 116:13 299:18 344:11
regroup 154:21 295:1 121:23 337:18 research
199:25 156:23,23 296:25 140:3 165:1 376:14,17 110:9,11
regrouped 371:13 315:9,12,16 173:20 390:25 184:17,19
231:8,8 remark 315:20 237:20 reporter 1:20 184:23
regular 380:10 316:4,4,6,7 263:1 8:9,22 185:1,4,11
237:17 remarked 316:14,16 281:22 394:3 185:23
362:16 53:10 319:25 287:9 reporting 8:8 186:2
regulation remedial 323:12 295:10 8:10 47:9 199:18
13:16 202:11 331:3,6,12 367:10 72:5 158:18 205:11,20
rehab 46:23 remember 337:25 384:25 245:9 206:5
134:13 14:20 18:18 338:18,23 repeated 253:25 211:14
312:24 32:4,5 38:2 341:18,20 22:9 92:10 268:15 236:3
Reichman 51:14 56:2 349:7 102:9 277:15 253:11,16
178:10,10 78:6,20,21 353:12,15 115:24 289:4 276:12
reinvite 79:13,25 353:16,18 116:14,21 313:13 282:14,19
213:5 80:15 91:7 353:23 119:4 376:18 363:5
rejected 93:8 103:1 354:1,5 121:19 reports 98:9 researchers
198:3 105:22 356:20 122:1,18,22 139:21 182:21
related 374:3 123:11,13 360:16 123:17 239:1 183:6
389:5 123:15 363:14,20 125:14 243:17 203:14
394:10 129:12 363:21 repeating 246:14 389:11,13
relates 25:25 130:16,16 364:14,18 36:8 287:19 389:23
relating 140:9,18 365:1,2,3,7 repetitive 354:6 reservations
25:24 57:19 143:7 156:5 368:24 204:2 373:22 82:2 193:9
relations 160:1 167:4 370:20 rephrase 390:22 reserving
68:23 183:14 375:7 111:16 represent 386:11
193:16 189:14 383:12 296:2 61:13 86:1 resistance
204:17,19 190:15,22 rememberi... report 3:19 representa... 293:21
357:11 191:5,7 108:14 89:5,6 31:17,21 resistant
relationship 192:14,20 remove 101:17,24 representa... 305:18
155:25 193:2 290:25 102:20 61:10 resisted
156:4 195:23 291:21 158:24 183:15 306:1
159:15 196:8,24 343:2 192:9 218:4,7,9 resolved
160:10 202:12,21 removed 202:21 352:5 245:6
169:22 203:1 263:9 203:14 represented respect 113:1
224:5 237:2 208:18,25 268:16 246:18,24 214:25 211:1

612.338.3376
Page 439
234:17 restroom 139:19 269:23 283:13 79:7,9

236:22 126:20 180:1 270:17 285:8 290:5 83:12 85:22
245:17 175:2 202:17,19 271:20,23 333:17 86:25 90:9
303:23 restyle 256:2 230:12,16 272:2 369:23 90:15 91:24
307:24 result 128:14 373:13 274:23 370:8,11 92:6 94:25
312:16 250:23 retiree 37:24 275:19 375:22 97:19 99:18
330:21 291:4 38:6 41:9 277:3,11,14 379:16 99:23 100:9
337:21 resulting 48:17 53:22 277:21,25 reviewed 100:16
350:15 116:23 58:3 68:18 279:7,13 20:12 21:2 102:5,11
362:2 results 46:11 74:13 77:22 285:13,19 26:16 28:25 106:13
respects 57:21,23 80:23 91:13 286:15 29:14,22,25 108:15
225:6 59:9 133:8 109:7 130:1 287:7 289:5 30:10,16,17 112:1 115:5
respond 141:5 136:14 296:1 31:2,15 115:14
204:22,24 169:16 137:9 329:21 103:25 118:20
204:25 181:12 138:12 363:11 144:14 122:23
211:7 257:2 198:7 141:13 366:6 179:23 123:25
391:1 201:12,21 177:25 returned 205:21,23 131:21
responded 202:1 178:14 268:6 282:22 140:15
85:1 134:23 205:11,20 180:22 274:10 302:3 143:24
responding 206:5 215:8 191:20 276:24 369:20,22 149:4 154:7
75:7 149:10 215:12,12 192:25 278:7 379:16 155:16
322:17 215:17 226:24 287:13,19 reviewers 156:5
response 253:16,22 230:5 288:18 196:20,24 159:13
52:22,23 354:6 retirees 289:9 300:9 reviewing 162:15
74:24 376:15 39:11,23 328:15 18:10 165:10
109:15 resurrected 42:2 64:21 366:14 371:16 167:7,15
124:14 188:18 67:22 68:3 returning 373:18 175:8
135:1 211:17 71:8 77:13 301:8 Reviews 58:9 179:17
143:23 resurrecting 82:23 84:4 return-to-p... 89:21 105:8 181:23
211:6,10 208:19 90:19,25 195:3 152:4 299:9 185:25
216:1 retained 109:20 260:21 300:12 187:13
327:25 237:3 110:23 261:10 322:23 191:10
343:18 retire 56:12 111:22 262:18 384:21 204:15
368:11 retired 3:14 112:6,12 266:22,25 reworked 208:16
372:25 36:15 43:17 113:9 114:8 270:10 368:15 209:21,22
390:21 43:20 47:13 127:18 271:1 Rick 202:22 210:10
responses 50:16 53:2 129:24 274:21 203:12,15 219:18
9:14 55:25 56:4 135:18 276:19 204:23 221:12,22
responsibil... 56:9,15,24 136:10,15 299:8 229:24 222:5 223:3
298:9,11 57:15 58:13 138:5 139:8 reveal 361:25 ridiculous 227:23
392:5 58:21 61:4 141:14 revealed 225:21 229:20
responsible 62:11 63:17 150:18 107:20 right 9:11,25 233:24
147:6 65:4,8 191:20 reveals 202:6 16:18 22:12 234:1,5,9
305:15 66:16 67:9 213:3 review 18:9 24:13,17 235:10
314:4 67:13 71:24 229:17 21:1 29:6 25:2,8,12 237:7,22
responsibly 75:13 77:15 373:24 30:6,13 27:14 28:6 239:1 241:3
52:2 77:18 83:9 retirement 96:11,19 28:11 44:6 241:14
responsive 83:11 91:10 139:3 98:17 104:3 44:21 45:21 244:1
131:20 92:10 return 44:23 144:23 47:24 53:16 245:23
rest 123:12 102:11 131:14 168:5 54:13,15 248:10
343:22 105:1,11,16 147:15 199:18 57:10 60:11 251:3
344:17 105:24 195:7,16 205:2,13 62:4,4,7,25 252:19
368:1 108:16 253:8 220:5,15,16 63:2,8 65:3 253:8
377:19 128:16 267:10,20 264:1 67:10,17 255:20
restrict 130:11 268:21,22 273:17 68:3,25 256:8
232:17 135:14 269:8,9,18 281:17 70:18,19 258:10

612.338.3376
Page 440
259:12 40:16 47:12 48:3 176:18 31:3,10 373:22

263:14 111:22,24 48:6 59:19 202:14 32:7,15,17 saying 44:24
264:25 112:7,14 61:19,21 345:9 346:2 33:13,18,19 46:7,21,25
266:12,17 113:10 62:9 64:11 346:7,7,14 36:5 49:2 47:21 50:11
268:24 114:9 115:1 72:18 75:10 346:24,24 99:17,21 51:20,21
269:2,5,22 193:22 77:5,16 347:1,2 101:1 148:2 56:21 63:17
271:22 388:1 80:16,17,20 356:16,22 148:18,24 64:23 65:1
272:15 risks 164:14 80:25 89:23 357:1,5,8 149:1,15 65:18 68:21
275:22,23 165:5,9 128:6 357:13,25 286:24 91:19
276:11 387:3 388:5 130:23 rules 9:9 350:10 119:12,13
281:15 388:14 131:23 11:24 35:7 363:11 119:16
282:22 391:23 133:25 35:12 36:3 safety-rela... 122:18
302:5 Rizos 24:10 166:15 36:8 38:7 15:17 123:16
306:19 24:16 37:16 167:21,22 71:21,25 salary 327:12 131:21
309:12,19 61:19 62:25 178:18 176:14,17 327:17 133:2 149:2
313:24 63:2,16 179:5,22 254:20 333:3 149:5
317:15 64:10 65:22 182:10 344:19 Salvador 150:11
321:22 66:1,15 187:19 345:21 326:23 160:17
323:4 327:8 69:21 188:13,18 347:20 327:4 163:4,17
327:10 162:11 188:25 348:22 328:14 169:8
330:20 183:17 198:24,24 349:2,3 329:12 185:16,24
336:3,21 199:1 199:14 354:11,17 331:4,7,13 189:14
338:7,10,17 207:16 200:2 354:22,25 332:12 193:10
338:20 214:25 210:15,19 355:1,1,2 334:10 208:3 209:1
340:13 215:2 216:1 210:23 355:16,23 Salvador's 211:6
344:7 346:8 216:4,14 211:20 355:23 332:18 212:14
346:16 road 9:9 216:13 356:9 same-day 216:3,12
347:1 348:1 11:25 220:21 run 97:9 269:18 234:14
349:21 roadblock 228:14 231:1 277:11 242:9
354:16 199:23 236:6 285:3 running same-game 243:24
359:23 Rob 218:3 288:19 166:8 383:4 269:8,9,22 245:21
378:20,23 Robert 301:17 runs 235:17 270:9,16 256:22
379:12 203:24 304:3 309:8 Rypien 277:14 257:4
384:16 role 156:12 318:9,23 229:24 279:7,13 261:14
385:14 191:14 319:8 285:13,19 277:10
386:13 196:1 329:24 S 289:5 281:7 295:2
392:20,23 236:21 337:7 S 2:1 175:12 363:11 298:21
rights 386:11 246:25 360:20 175:12,12 samples 309:23
right-hand 350:25 361:4 377:1 324:3 115:22 310:3 312:3
180:12 351:25 377:22 sad 138:14 sanction 312:6,21
ring 76:14,18 rolling 166:22 378:16 safe 100:15 317:2 316:14,16
178:11 Roman 382:4 100:19 324:12 320:12
303:3 183:11,13 385:21 242:6 sanctioned 325:6 331:6
rings 262:5 183:18,23 Ruben's safer 98:21 324:22 331:12
ring-side Ronde 358:17 107:6 168:8 safety 18:9 sat 29:10 332:18
264:14 room 262:24 171:2 176:8 18:14 19:2 243:7 333:4
rink 99:9 366:18 223:17 21:13,18 satisfied 334:12
120:24 rough 25:18 rude 122:9 22:19 23:16 165:23 336:11
rinks 95:13 RTP 299:3 rule 21:12 24:4,13,16 save 349:13 338:20
rink-side rubber 333:5 39:8 46:10 25:7,12,15 saving 340:20
262:10 Ruben 3:12 72:11 73:10 25:24 27:5 383:23 343:18
264:18 4:6,8,11 5:1 109:6 27:8,24 saw 31:24 344:16
366:13 5:6 6:1,6 121:12,14 28:3,10,14 32:8 78:10 346:14
367:3,4 7:10 23:19 133:16 28:17,21,25 78:19 238:6 356:21
risk 20:2 42:10 43:13 173:18 29:4,17,21 290:12 377:23
39:12,24 44:8 46:12 174:3,7 30:4,13,19 349:12 383:13,14

612.338.3376
Page 441
384:12 266:8 157:1,3,23 132:19 186:15 389:7,16

385:6,9,10 267:25 168:21 152:1 187:12 seeing 31:9
385:16,22 268:11,19 171:6 171:16 188:10 82:12,13
says 61:4,21 337:9 172:25 175:20 190:6 197:9
62:24 63:13 366:18,19 173:11 176:1,1 198:19 253:23
80:10 92:5 367:6,18,19 184:23 183:3,4 201:2 258:18
96:13 367:25 199:15 186:16 203:11,13 292:10
101:24 368:14,22 200:3 258:2 217:8,13 203:24,25 305:1
104:25 369:2,8 267:15 221:6 206:12 seeking
105:11 SCAT2 264:11 312:13,15 233:18 209:16,25 118:6
119:4 265:8 340:10,15 241:1 210:7 seen 78:9,18
151:20 336:16 341:3,10 243:20 220:17 113:19
169:19 337:2 366:17 301:1 302:9 221:2,6,21 119:21
180:11 SCAT3 264:6 scientifically 311:6 222:20,25 132:13
186:17 264:7 265:8 159:24 332:14 226:15,17 181:12,19
187:3 scenarios 388:5,15 340:18 231:12 186:22
203:11 292:21 389:1 358:24 232:7,9 203:17
209:18,25 293:11 scientist 366:5 233:14,19 206:3
214:22 schedule 47:24 48:2 375:14 235:2 234:22,25
221:2 258:15,17 scientists 383:5 389:9 240:23,25 236:16
241:17,22 schedules 50:4 section 91:22 244:5 248:5 240:10
242:5,7 258:20 scope 15:5 see 14:20 248:7 247:18
243:15 scheduling 131:19 18:13 31:11 252:13,24 266:23
248:10,13 133:2 232:22 32:1 38:4 253:13 278:19
249:17 school 13:6 scores 217:5 43:9 49:14 255:15 281:24
252:24 76:16 217:5,22 51:9 53:25 283:10,12 282:5,7,15
266:20 science 12:19 218:1 54:9,12 285:7 321:11
269:21 49:6,8,11 Scratch 36:10 55:5,14,23 288:16 351:21
288:17 52:3,4 script 88:16 60:5 62:6,9 290:8 292:8 374:2
292:8 53:14 88:19,20 65:3 69:9 298:20 sees 355:17
303:20 100:22 scrutinized 70:23 71:2 299:9 356:9 384:2
308:5,24 109:25 99:13 89:3 91:22 301:23 selected
309:3,12 146:11 scrutiny 93:17 98:15 302:1,23 199:6
318:16 147:4,8 96:11,19 98:23 309:1,3,12 self 217:2
319:4,7,9 148:3,6 seamless 104:17,24 318:18,22 self-reported
322:25 154:17,22 95:24 97:10 106:4,10 321:24 55:8 217:3
324:2 159:1 168:3 97:18 98:13 108:18 322:13,17 217:11
332:11 168:7,12,25 Sean 6:19 118:24 324:2,4 selling
337:10 170:4 177:7 332:3,24 132:16,20 326:16 348:18
339:16 184:16,19 333:1 137:9 328:3,4 semicolon
341:13 185:2 search 146:13,16 329:6,11 62:22
347:24 205:17 156:12 149:3 330:3 Senator 7:13
348:6,17 206:14,23 searching 151:20,23 332:10,14 143:23
352:19 207:12,18 155:19 153:3 154:9 332:23 373:1,4
358:12 208:2 season 163:15 333:11 Senators
361:3,7 231:16,25 152:10 167:22 335:14,19 307:15
379:21 274:19 256:2 170:4 171:5 339:14,15 send 220:15
381:14 279:5 267:23,24 171:13,19 343:15,25 221:18
scare 49:12 291:20 268:4 315:6 175:21,23 344:12,14 246:17
scared 50:10 312:9 315:7 176:2 178:9 359:14 sending
Scarlato 2:7 340:14 324:10 179:11,15 360:7,8 255:19
8:16 388:20 seats 348:6 180:9 361:2,9 senior 16:19
scary 302:25 392:8 second 36:7 181:15 371:22 86:1
SCAT 264:1,4 scientific 49:21 55:3 182:19 373:18 sense 43:20
264:8 41:1,3 82:8 106:9,10 183:5,9,21 382:6 75:22 77:6
265:12 118:22 115:10,11 185:21 385:13 81:22 82:6

612.338.3376
Page 442
85:16 93:11 360:21 shielding 240:15 sides 99:8 237:4

135:12 361:5,8,11 93:20 247:16 335:16 246:14
141:11 362:5 shifting 255:15 sift 87:8 250:2
168:7 sequence 230:17 281:25 sight 377:18 252:22
173:24 222:1 short 254:9 282:8 288:7 377:21 similar 72:12
174:13,16 series 228:10 343:24 301:15 sign 241:11 391:8
174:18,22 358:9 367:8 344:22 308:9 241:17 similarly
174:23 367:11 345:13,14 311:11 262:22 141:1,10
232:10 serious shortcut 318:7 326:8 263:8 391:4
262:14 125:23 198:9 329:5 268:12 simple 158:5
277:8 279:8 292:3 shorter 150:8 335:13 279:9 220:19
279:13 304:14 255:7 339:11 282:11 295:11
368:15,16 323:9 shorthand 343:2,3 290:8,13 343:21
sensitive 326:23 71:17 168:3 349:13 296:19 377:3 387:9
225:1 281:4 327:22,22 168:8 188:9 358:1 297:6,19 simplistic
sensor 45:3 seriously 206:19 360:18 298:1 97:22 180:5
124:25 24:17 27:24 208:2 372:22 302:12 simply 48:24
sent 132:22 86:20 98:23 252:16 380:25 305:16 74:10 78:23
140:8 99:16,18 309:23 383:17,19 383:11,11 83:25 95:1
211:21 146:9 350:14 383:20 signature 101:3
213:8,17 245:14,15 358:12 showed 101:20,22 116:10
228:12 304:20 394:3 88:12 96:3 359:9 128:23
321:15 set 56:9 short-term 97:16 99:2 395:20 140:12
324:17 201:10 40:19 190:16 signed 31:18 173:4
326:2 369:9 276:5 194:21,24 389:3 31:21 185:21
369:9 302:10 shots 339:1 showing 369:12 199:8 201:7
sentence 364:14 shoulder 29:24 167:7 significance 203:20
144:6 377:15,20 34:11 182:17 96:22 97:1 204:9
171:10 379:3 394:7 shoulders 209:15 97:4 328:8 212:13
175:21,23 setting 27:6 120:1 222:19 significant 213:7 228:7
180:12 234:19 120:11,16 233:2 283:1 25:16 98:19 265:18
205:6 seven 216:24 show 29:24 320:25 173:16 273:25
206:12 276:6 30:9 31:13 321:23 180:15 300:18
214:3,11,19 severally 43:1 53:9 324:1 332:9 signs 279:16 302:8
214:22 204:7 53:20 56:22 343:6 361:1 279:17,18 339:22
263:1 severe 206:2 59:17 64:22 374:19 280:14,20 356:7
284:14,18 sgrygiel@... 64:22 67:1 shown 54:12 280:21 371:13
345:16 2:4 79:19 89:2 228:21 281:3,8 380:3,25
sentiment sham 329:14 98:19,21 279:5 282:1,10 Sinai 76:16
143:18 shape 196:21 99:2,8 shows 67:4 287:8,14,21 single 155:21
328:5 share 303:20 101:3 102:4 104:8 288:17 161:8
separate shared 103:25 186:19 289:15 190:13
42:7 60:4 194:17 104:16 191:17 291:3 294:9
September 230:22 132:11 236:3 242:5 297:15 335:15
4:12 5:7,17 365:21 136:11,14 246:18 300:10,13 sit 64:11
6:6,9 7:11 sharing 151:9 262:22 301:8 83:20
28:22 163:16 152:11 263:8 302:16,18 sitdown
151:24 292:14 164:20 282:11 303:2,16,22 302:14
159:17 sheet 335:15 166:22 322:1 305:13 sitting 18:10
182:12,22 358:16 167:6 179:3 sic 374:20 306:13 31:8 73:5
190:25 359:3,4 186:13 side 62:6 307:2,5,9 370:5
228:9,14 395:1 396:9 200:19 104:5,5 sign-off situation
247:20 Shelanski 203:2 213:6 126:10 369:8 95:18
255:10,18 221:8 215:13 180:12 Silverman 189:24
318:10,15 Shep 13:24 220:18 193:6 2:2 8:13 261:18,20
321:6 14:7 228:5 200:15 SIM 19:9 277:17

612.338.3376
Page 443
290:14 snapshots 300:17 185:11 293:11 337:6,19,24

292:22 108:25 301:1 243:11 294:25 338:14,18
303:7,8 snarky 326:3 309:16,18 250:20 295:20,23 338:21
314:15 326:5 314:21 258:1,1 306:3 spoken 24:3
317:10 soccer 163:19 316:2 275:5 311:5 317:18 24:9,12,19
329:12 society 18:5 322:20 311:10 320:2 24:22 25:1
347:25 22:21 163:7 328:20 312:21 334:23 37:10,14,20
356:15 260:10 339:21 313:1 337:4 341:1 76:13 115:7
357:18 275:9 355:10 374:18 341:22 115:23
situations sole 17:15 357:5 speaking 342:2 349:3 124:21,24
161:25 solely 26:12 384:25 142:4 163:7 353:15,18 126:3
306:5,11 232:18 385:13 172:13 353:24 140:16
six 51:13 379:13 sort 19:6 297:22 367:6,13 142:10
54:19,23 somebody 72:21 87:8 315:9 368:8,14 179:23
371:24 155:18 116:23 323:12 specifically 235:11
392:12 163:20 158:2 347:6 14:20 18:16 307:17
sixth 359:1 218:19 215:14 390:18 28:23 30:9 337:7,7,22
six-page 346:18 387:14 special 49:20 58:2 347:16
54:21,24 371:5 sound 216:10 242:19 120:3 154:2 364:1,5,6
Skadden 1:16 someone's 306:22 377:24 188:21 sport 75:19
2:13 13:19 307:23 353:1 379:7 195:3 110:6 157:8
14:12,14,17 somewhat sounded specialist 8:8 234:17 157:9
202:20 237:12 80:21 259:3,11 264:13 260:15
skiddish some-page 149:22 specific 17:10 340:23 267:16,18
362:8 144:5 381:11 26:23,25 364:12 268:1 270:1
skilled sons 330:14 387:8 29:25 31:13 365:7 285:20,22
350:19 soon 99:2 sounds 16:18 34:25 50:24 specificity 389:12,14
slash 241:12 108:12 40:23 65:5 52:23 56:3 143:16 389:25
241:17 201:23 65:5 165:11 73:20 79:16 specifics sports 153:15
SLATE 1:16 267:23 165:15 83:3,4 85:1 331:1,2 154:3,11,13
2:13 sorry 21:14 196:23 85:18 87:23 363:15 168:23
slightly 35:25 36:6 202:7 220:6 89:22 90:6 speculating 237:6
106:14 38:13 41:16 238:4 257:8 97:14 103:1 384:23 250:18
114:6 43:25 44:4 315:11,15 103:5 speculation 264:4
355:11 48:7,15 319:20 113:25 72:3 207:20 285:14
slow 134:13 53:4 66:6 331:5,23 114:3,5 245:12 379:3
255:21 70:25 79:1 338:15 117:13 348:20 spot 312:18
257:24 81:10 88:5 372:16 125:7 129:2 385:12 spotter
279:23 96:24 106:1 source 21:19 140:18 speeches 297:17
280:21 106:6,8 239:1 311:1 144:6 178:6 122:8 spotters
281:18,20 110:24 sources 181:10 speed 310:1 147:22
300:24 120:12 143:15 183:19 spelling Square 1:17
306:8 140:3 158:6 253:2 189:2 191:1 256:10 2:14
316:21 158:10,13 Spacek 196:7 spend 294:15 SRN/JSM 1:6
slower 40:11 158:14 296:24 211:10,14 spent 23:15 St 14:5
slowly 40:4 171:8,9 Spanish 3:23 219:11 23:18 24:6 stab 381:14
SLUTKIN 2:2 175:7 201:5 101:9 235:24 25:15 26:10 staff 70:2
small 184:10 213:16 Spar-Grand 244:23 26:21 27:10 152:12
smart 117:16 222:7 229:3 5:13 240:18 247:15 33:7 164:2 275:14
117:22 229:6 241:4 speak 9:11 265:3 226:2 304:5
Smith 319:2 245:5 19:11 31:16 269:14 371:15 305:15
382:17 251:20 40:3,7,11 279:19 spoke 139:25 387:16
385:22 259:6 52:9 114:1 281:4 140:4 163:5 stakeholders
snapshot 267:25 140:17 286:18,25 181:5 72:8
42:8 294:7 273:4 171:1 180:1 291:8,16 243:10 stamp 333:5
294:20 281:22 183:4 185:3 293:4,5,10 302:2 303:8 standard

612.338.3376
Page 444
263:7 35:25 36:6 250:9,14 335:23 353:5 177:25

357:15 36:7 39:20 289:4 345:13 study 3:14 178:22,22
standardized 76:25 91:17 stats 244:12 Stoykewych 12:11 17:2 179:24
266:13 91:20 129:9 status 379:7 183:12 23:1,2 180:5,8,22
268:18 136:22 stay 170:3 straight 13:5 37:12,17,24 181:15,25
377:12 149:22 stayed 88:22 13:18 38:6,17,17 182:1,3
standing 153:6 Stephen 2:4 strategies 41:9,25 187:4 188:9
141:22 157:15 347:6 186:18 42:2,8,9 189:7
standpoint 159:16 steps 110:15 Street 2:3,8 43:17,20 190:24
146:17 160:3 163:3 116:25 strengths 45:14,16 191:9,15,19
stands 164:18,23 117:2 362:12 46:12 47:13 191:21
118:21 171:2 177:11 stretch 48:17 50:16 192:25
242:3 174:14 184:8 186:4 219:23 50:17,19 193:5,20
star 203:14 268:25 337:20 strict 351:3,7 51:19 53:22 194:2,13
start 8:1 269:4 270:2 367:6 strictly 55:5 56:4,8 197:4,24,25
43:16,20 274:4 Stern 115:2,7 254:24 56:14,22 198:7
52:25 53:7 287:24 115:24 strike 52:8 57:12,24 201:12,13
65:6 133:17 288:5 116:10 91:10 58:21,22,22 201:15,20
229:4 274:5 344:25 117:6 119:3 251:23 58:23 59:13 202:2,18
276:11 345:1 348:9 121:20,24 285:18 63:18 64:21 203:12
384:20 348:13,14 122:4,7 286:7 333:4 66:17 67:10 208:7 209:2
started 15:6 356:11,12 123:9,16 stronger 67:13,20 209:3,4,8
17:21 18:11 368:8 203:24 317:1 68:2,8,11 210:19
19:5 22:24 379:21 Steve 6:11,13 structure 68:18 69:22 212:5,16
26:8 52:8 390:8 392:2 8:12 9:6 86:9 236:8 71:3,6,11 213:1 215:7
64:5,8 statements 25:23 40:3 structures 72:5,6,14 215:8,12,13
131:7 110:6,7 40:4 43:22 26:17 72:14 74:13 215:17
157:12 157:8,10 73:24 205:6 struggling 75:13 77:4 217:13,15
230:25 225:24,25 284:16 105:17 77:12,17,18 217:16
231:1 239:7 270:6 295:8 Stuart 330:8 77:22 78:8 220:2
252:18 270:7,12,16 300:25 330:24 79:11 80:12 221:11
253:11,13 270:22,23 315:9 331:3,15 80:23 81:1 223:15,19
253:14 271:2,3,9 319:21 332:15 81:12 82:1 225:10
276:11,12 341:7 322:5 334:21 82:23 83:10 226:25
276:17 statements... 323:12,18 335:3,4 83:11,12 229:17,21
starting 363:4 323:18,21 studied 72:6 84:4,18,23 230:5,11,12
58:16 64:16 states 1:1 Steven 127:18 90:18,25 231:14,19
195:13 389:10 111:10 353:7 91:5,10,13 231:25
251:11 stating 18:23 stewardship studiers 92:8,14 234:3,15
252:8 statistic 17:6 166:24 102:7,15,19 235:20
state 1:20 301:5,6 stick 206:13 studies 42:7 105:16 255:4
8:25 91:18 statistical stigma 55:15 51:6 58:3 106:5,12,19 282:20
93:2,4 96:21 97:1 305:21 103:25 108:2,16,16 352:25
146:11 97:4 172:7 stirring 109:13 108:21 353:2
147:4,7 statistically 166:25 125:9 129:5 114:14 studying
148:3,6 98:19 167:2 168:8 130:21 125:12 22:18 36:15
153:11 173:16 stop 51:12 172:7 126:14 56:3 58:24
154:16,22 statistics 122:8 223:9 176:15 128:8,9,21 58:24
159:2 12:11,12 231:6 177:6,16,16 130:1,25 169:11,23
206:22 13:10 277:15,15 191:3 131:3,25 188:8 223:9
269:1 119:21 302:17 216:20,24 132:1 133:7 stuff 119:14
345:20 238:12,17 stoppage 217:1 218:6 134:3 156:16
389:13,24 244:7 246:23 218:8,10 135:14,15 323:17
394:4 245:10,14 stories 226:6 231:5 135:17 361:18
statement 245:19 163:16 280:9 136:4,14 stumbling
33:9,22 249:20 story 254:9 281:25 141:14,16 297:7

612.338.3376
Page 445
5:9 34:15 submit 194:3 320:7 296:11 suspicious

34:22,24 103:24 204:21 328:13,16 300:22 327:16,23
35:5,11,15 submitted 211:16 336:13 303:14,15 334:14
37:4,6 46:2 96:19 334:9,11 377:13 304:8,12 sustained
46:14 75:12 370:13 suggestion sure 9:10 309:17 363:3
92:17,18 subparagra... 199:14 15:3 21:15 315:19 373:15
104:2 55:24 56:14 suggestions 28:16,18 316:24 swear 8:22
133:19,25 92:8 392:11 75:11 31:4 33:16 317:22 switch 124:7
152:8,24 subquestions suicide 161:2 33:21 36:1 322:22 sworn 8:24
157:6 234:20 Suite 2:3,8 36:8 38:13 331:11 394:7
160:16,23 Subscribed sum 102:23 43:16,19 333:13 395:21
161:24 395:21 266:8 53:5,16 339:3 342:6 396:14
162:10 396:14 315:15 55:21 56:20 342:8 symptom
163:17 subsequent summaries 61:13 73:13 359:22 47:9 253:24
177:4 202:11 61:23 76:4,7,18 360:12 265:13
178:25 325:13 summarize 79:2 83:14 366:2,9,11 266:3
181:22 substance 71:21 84:21 86:17 371:2 268:14,15
182:4 188:5 16:2 107:4 summarized 88:14,22 378:14 368:16
192:3,9 139:4 61:25 90:4 95:9 379:2,18,20 symptoms
196:5,18 315:15 summarizing 95:14 96:25 380:17 40:20
198:19,23 396:8 336:11 97:7 100:14 384:2 385:2 111:11
199:18 substantiv... summary 106:3 386:15 112:8
200:10 301:14 3:10 54:3,9 116:14 surface 113:10,13
213:22 sue 250:23 132:15 119:22 191:23 113:18
218:18 sued 362:5 244:6 120:14 surgeon 114:19
220:16 suffer 111:2 summer 121:15,24 258:10 185:6 254:4
231:10 111:7 229:23 123:6 124:2 259:2,23 277:16
233:5,15 suffered 256:2 125:1 surprise 278:10,16
291:7,15 266:8 super 72:15 126:21,23 348:10 278:18
292:14 suffering superiors 129:2 surprising 279:2
300:2 39:12 130:2 216:21 132:12 348:24 293:23
305:12 138:11 supplemen... 134:25 surveillance 299:18
307:21 141:15 387:20 135:21 237:8 313:14
311:14 287:20 support 140:4 survey 42:8 331:9,14
312:20 sufficient 69:17 149:21 125:13 334:10,20
340:25 116:1,16 103:15,20 153:19 126:17 symptom-f...
368:13 117:17 168:25 162:9,14 128:7,21 274:11,24
369:6 118:8,14 180:21 164:17 130:25 sync 98:8
subconcus... 119:5 260:15 172:12 353:24 223:20
123:2 122:21 304:16 178:9 182:1 surveyed syndrome
subject 61:7 204:5 344:16 182:4 187:2 153:25 20:2 40:18
96:10 sufficiently 354:22 199:2 205:7 154:8 system
124:15 93:20 supported 211:19 156:18 124:25,25
185:16 147:25 140:20 237:21 353:16 237:6,8
262:4 suggest 351:5 238:20 surveys 250:2,4,5
281:17 111:13 supporting 247:18 354:1,7 systematic
316:9,11 160:9 194:5 85:13 251:13 suspect 138:4,13
322:13 194:6 suppose 261:14,21 114:24 systems
343:16 281:13 352:21 265:4 365:5 94:16 96:4
355:20 suggested supposed 266:19 suspected 96:5 98:12
385:7,19 159:15 64:11 270:3 265:11 98:13,21
391:11 389:11 262:23 271:21 266:7 268:9 99:3
subjected suggesting 263:9,13 281:24 268:10,12 S's 256:6
96:21 97:3 40:23 48:22 267:3 287:10 269:23
subjective 96:13,14 315:23 292:1,4 270:17 T
333:22 111:10 319:10 295:8,11 290:25 T 175:12

612.338.3376
Page 446
table 52:2 127:14 368:12 233:20,22 90:17 91:4 term 20:3,4,4

83:5 126:10 138:12 379:11 234:14,18 91:8,9,11 22:9 30:20
190:6,8 146:7,8 talking 23:15 235:1,3 110:4,5,5 31:4,5
201:11 159:7 23:19 24:7 tasked 140:23 32:17,18,23
230:9 175:11 28:17 39:4 235:23 147:6 50:17 56:22
251:10,14 177:11,13 58:19,20 Tator 342:11 148:21 57:13 58:22
tactics 49:12 214:25 65:13 73:24 343:17,17 149:6,7 68:2 82:23
tailored 228:2 77:3 81:18 Taub 219:12 153:6 99:25 100:1
388:25 271:17 83:7,19 219:16 156:11,24 100:3 102:7
take 11:10 305:3 318:2 88:4 121:7 221:3 157:1 130:7
12:13,16,18 370:9 128:19 222:21 171:21 180:17
12:23 13:9 372:19 129:15 223:2,15,23 172:4,22 217:20
13:12,15 386:18 133:19 Taubenfeld 173:13 255:25
18:13 27:23 takes 24:16 145:12 219:20,21 176:10 256:12
28:20 30:15 147:8 151:8 219:21 207:22 266:14
55:17 76:5 245:14 162:12 Taylor 352:25 210:14 272:25
85:11 86:20 275:23 175:24 team 18:4,5 226:22 terminology
106:3 talk 51:8,23 176:25 19:7,8 247:14 77:17
126:20 64:5,15,16 189:3 194:8 22:21 23:9 251:22 terms 21:21
148:1 65:6 72:18 204:4 244:25 272:17 22:4 25:18
164:21 87:8 95:1 205:19 260:10,11 275:3 290:9 33:10 46:17
175:2 216:6 133:21 209:7 260:12,18 312:21 73:5 77:14
222:2 139:18 215:21 263:13,17 320:10 86:24
227:23 141:16 225:12 275:9 324:20 103:14
261:17 148:15,19 226:3 248:9 286:14 325:1,3 109:19,25
271:12 148:20 252:3,5,7 287:22 327:2 110:14
273:19 161:6,18 252:16,16 294:9,10 337:12 139:19
275:21 163:21 256:11,19 295:5 297:1 349:24 141:4
277:24 174:2,4,6 263:4 297:17 350:21 157:14
284:22 190:23 294:15 304:8 364:25 194:22
296:6 298:3 192:4 295:7 308:6 306:19 375:3 195:2 211:4
304:19 234:21 314:21 309:10,22 381:11 229:14
309:17 243:16 317:16 324:9 383:19,22 236:3
311:20 256:1 265:3 335:23 teams 23:8 385:14 246:16,21
317:21,23 271:25 336:7 338:5 244:24 telling 86:17 253:17
318:20 278:3 340:17,23 253:19 147:5 245:7 254:19
319:17 341:19 341:12 292:24 251:24 255:3 258:3
322:15 342:4,4 344:4 293:7 256:13,17 260:13,20
350:16 372:3 367:17 295:24 258:16 261:8 267:7
357:19 387:15 368:21 296:20 269:7 376:20,24
359:13 talked 19:15 371:3 299:7 292:11 377:7,11,24
360:5,6 22:8 37:25 376:10,11 302:19 315:12,16 378:24
361:17 64:1 68:10 389:4 377:13 316:7 387:25
369:16 89:23,24 talks 375:17 team's 338:24 Terrible
370:25 114:14 tampering 236:24 365:3 103:18
371:21 115:18,21 14:21,22 teed 72:10 368:24 terrific
372:2,10,15 131:13 Tanenbaum telephone 383:13 362:10
383:21 133:11,23 182:6 317:2 tells 355:22 Terry 5:13
386:14 134:1,7 target 244:25 358:13 temporal 236:19,21
392:4 163:22 task 51:17 Telephonic 44:10 237:14
taken 10:13 177:3 59:6 198:5 17:12 299:17 240:18
11:13,18,22 197:25 198:10,15 tell 25:22 temporally 241:3
46:14 76:10 203:21 200:5 201:9 29:16 31:1 225:23 243:18
99:17 243:9 218:24 66:1 67:12 ten 78:2 245:17
122:25 305:11 231:11 69:21,25 262:3 315:1 248:22
123:4 341:17 232:7,17 77:11 81:25 tenure 180:3 249:18

612.338.3376
Page 447
250:2,10,15 262:17 thereof 223:8 51:22 57:2 165:16,21 232:23

250:21,23 265:16 thing 51:21 57:16,19 167:21,22 234:13
test 275:21 273:12 56:17 58:5 58:16 59:8 168:6,7,13 235:19
368:11 274:7,9,14 63:14,19 62:3 64:10 168:17,21 236:6 237:2
tested 315:5 275:12 65:6 158:2 64:10 65:1 169:2,10,10 237:4,14
315:24 276:3,20 241:16 65:9 66:14 169:13,13 238:15,24
324:9 277:5,22,23 244:4 67:23 68:5 169:15,18 239:3
377:13,14 278:11 353:15 68:6,10,14 169:24 240:10
testified 9:1 296:13 things 14:6 68:15,25 170:7,15 242:17,20
229:12 314:18 15:23 30:23 69:4,12,15 172:10 243:8
233:24 315:8,14,22 30:23 36:1 69:18,19 174:14 245:23,25
370:17 317:12 50:7 72:16 70:7 71:17 176:23,23 246:3,6,11
385:25 318:17 75:4,25 72:4,4,12 176:24 246:13,23
387:8 390:7 319:5 320:6 83:8,13,24 73:1,16,17 177:8,17 246:25
391:21 320:9 85:15,15 74:17 75:1 179:22 248:21
testify 10:3,7 322:19 86:18 77:24 79:18 181:5,24 249:9 250:7
10:11 20:20 323:1,16 100:24 79:19,19 184:5 250:15
369:16 324:3,8,16 102:24,24 80:2,18 185:23 251:9 256:7
testifying 324:19,21 102:25 81:20,21,23 186:2 188:6 257:23,24
310:4 324:25 105:10,15 82:5 85:5 188:13,17 266:17
testimony 325:8 133:23,25 87:2 89:14 188:22,22 267:17
20:18 52:24 328:13,16 137:1 148:9 91:16,17,19 188:23 273:6,21
56:13 57:1 329:16,19 148:9,22 92:22 93:8 189:3 276:17
66:12 76:24 330:4 149:16 97:21 98:16 190:20 281:5,14
79:9 91:15 334:17,17 169:21 99:4 100:19 193:8,11,11 282:24
93:1 109:11 335:2 172:11 100:21 193:14,15 283:18
117:24 376:12,20 189:21 102:20 193:17,25 284:24
118:22,22 376:22 192:11 105:14 194:3 285:5
121:22 377:3,6 194:25 106:23,24 198:13,15 287:23
122:3,16 379:14 223:6 234:2 108:8,11,12 199:13 288:1,3,4
136:21 380:1 382:9 254:21 108:13,24 200:5 293:17
153:12 tests 334:18 284:5 291:9 109:22 202:25 295:11
160:1 367:11,15 307:10 112:24,24 205:4,15 296:9,16,17
198:14 thank 40:13 309:13 113:24 206:18,21 297:23
207:4 41:22 322:18 114:23 206:22 299:12
208:21 127:10 362:10,23 116:19,25 207:8,23 301:13
225:19 199:12 365:22 117:8 209:1,6 302:11
226:14,20 204:12 367:10 118:25 210:20 305:20
243:6 317:7 308:10 369:17 122:24,25 211:14,16 306:21
363:19 339:13 376:23 123:3 130:7 211:23 314:9
373:3 394:9 386:10 379:11 130:18,22 212:15 320:16,22
testing 19:20 Thanks 388:19 130:25 214:13 320:23
19:21,22,23 321:22,22 392:9,10 131:2,2,4 216:18 323:12,18
19:24 21:23 359:25 think 16:8 133:7 135:2 217:4,17,20 324:14
77:14 97:3 360:13 17:14,25 135:17,22 218:2,3 328:2,22
133:7,11 380:16 21:1 22:6 139:9 143:3 219:7,7 331:19,20
141:5 383:10 22:24 28:13 143:4,14 220:13,17 331:23
195:14 theme 206:13 30:19 34:7 146:1,6,6 222:6 333:24,24
252:4,19 206:17,18 37:5 38:9 150:7,10,15 224:14,14 337:6
253:3,5,9 206:22,24 38:15,15 150:19,22 224:23 342:23
253:14,24 207:17,21 39:19,22 152:5 225:15,21 344:14,22
254:4,6,15 theory 40:14,24 153:14 226:2 346:1,20
254:25 350:10 41:24 42:3 157:12,13 227:16 349:25
256:21 therapies 42:6,11,18 157:23 230:3,13 356:3 357:6
260:2,9,17 312:23 47:15 48:23 160:12,18 231:15,24 357:14
261:6 therapy 47:4 49:3,4 161:1 232:10,12 359:15

612.338.3376
Page 448
363:11 82:6 120:6 19:15 22:5 228:3 368:19 335:24

368:4 130:18 23:15,18 230:15,19 371:15 369:16
370:18 141:11 24:6 25:14 236:24 372:3,17,20 370:2,17
371:23 153:18 25:16,21 238:21 377:5 371:12
372:3 161:3 26:8,11,21 242:13,15 383:23 373:3 386:1
376:14 162:12 26:25 27:1 250:10 386:16,19 386:8
377:4 169:6 184:9 27:11 33:7 251:14 392:25 today's 263:6
379:23,24 184:11 35:1 36:12 253:17 393:4 393:1
382:4,4,6 185:1,13 37:8,8 41:6 257:6,15 timeframe token 193:19
382:20 199:16 41:8,8,17 258:9 259:1 44:10 48:19 told 18:14
384:22 200:7 215:9 41:18 44:7 264:24 189:22 64:20 67:19
385:7,20,22 217:12 46:3 50:15 265:3 267:5 279:11 68:8,12,17
387:11,22 238:11 51:14,25 267:7,13,13 290:22 71:6 83:6
387:23 248:25 57:9 58:16 271:15,18 293:1,2 94:25 95:18
388:1,10,13 285:5 293:4 58:18 59:3 272:7 275:4 338:3 106:18
388:24 303:12 61:5 62:12 281:3 362:15 109:12
389:3,5 304:6 62:19 63:18 284:22 timeline 124:9 125:3
390:7,22 320:10 64:17 65:4 285:5,19 105:18 125:21
391:8 392:1 324:14 65:25 66:7 286:11,17 107:16 126:3
thinking 327:2 345:8 67:3,12 286:24,24 108:15 135:25
42:12,15 367:22 74:12 76:1 287:5,5,11 timely 171:25 136:9,13
53:3,17 369:1 392:2 76:8,11 287:11,18 times 1:17 142:21
68:5 131:7 392:3,6 77:5,7,10 287:18 2:14 10:23 159:4
133:18 thoughts 80:2,15 290:24 39:21 88:25 162:25
168:24 43:18 52:17 82:21 83:16 291:2,22 108:3 218:14,15
219:1 52:18 84:1,15,22 292:16 294:11,12 250:25
334:25 255:23 87:4 90:2 293:13 300:10 303:9 311:4
346:17 375:23 92:13 93:12 294:7,15 333:21 320:1 324:6
thinks 375:18 376:4 98:15 99:13 295:17,19 365:12 341:20,23
third 55:20 three 54:24 107:5,8 296:7 timing 79:21 354:23
55:21 102:3 60:3,8 72:6 108:8,25 307:17,18 82:15 188:2 355:14
180:9 73:4 103:10 109:15 309:17 246:7 356:6,7
203:23 187:13 121:7,9,11 310:6 314:20 380:4
224:8,11,23 198:20 127:12,15 314:22 346:1 368:9 tomorrow
225:2,11 229:24 127:23 315:25 timing's 210:2
302:22 276:4 130:8,10,18 316:2,3,6 346:8 tool 46:23
303:18 294:11,12 131:6,9 317:25 tirade 341:21 133:11
358:11,25 306:11 137:2,8,17 318:3 320:3 341:24 195:15
375:15 330:14 144:8 325:17 tirelessly 253:5
Thirty-one 370:5 146:13 328:18 146:12 254:16
300:12 374:17 149:1 329:24 147:23 264:5
Thompson three-page 156:17 333:5,8,8 title 16:13,15 266:13
2:2 8:13 54:17 158:10,13 334:4,8 titles 16:23 268:19
thorough three-year 159:17 341:14 TK 243:16 327:17
304:8 45:9 164:2 166:8 342:13,14 today 10:4,8 366:20
thought 11:5 throats 193:7 175:9,13,14 345:20 10:11 11:25 367:21
39:10,16 throw 384:22 178:2 179:2 347:10 20:13,19 tools 47:7
41:14,24 thrown 189:9,13 349:13 23:25 31:8 268:20
42:19 48:23 201:24 190:18 353:6,6,10 52:24 142:8 312:23
49:1,3 tighten 193:13 353:19 197:13,18 top 43:10,14
53:12 64:14 303:13 196:16 359:18 201:8 239:9 47:17,22
65:22 66:1 time 9:11 209:7 362:4 239:19 55:2 67:4
67:13,25 11:16 14:2 212:10 364:13 261:17 75:21 81:23
68:7 69:1 14:11 16:7 217:7 218:1 366:7,16,22 262:7 82:19 89:4
70:5 74:3 16:10 17:25 225:24 367:13,21 263:14 104:18
80:25 81:22 18:3 19:14 227:25 367:24 267:8 293:9 132:2,14,15

612.338.3376
Page 449
135:13 339:24 304:7 167:2 168:9 311:20 62:5,8

151:20 340:19 305:13 troubled 318:20 80:16 102:6
179:12 341:11 TRANSCRIPT 303:9 361:9 107:13,25
180:10 Townend's 395:1 troubling 362:14 115:12
187:3 340:2 transcription 266:18 365:24 117:5
203:11,23 track 79:21 396:5 true 63:16 386:11 127:22
209:18 82:14 transcripts 129:4 391:18 128:5 152:9
221:2 tracking 370:8 148:10 turning 153:10
240:25 374:2,9 translate 197:13,18 312:20 162:16
247:20,20 trail 65:14 9:15 201:8 282:9 tutelage 167:3
255:17 322:20 trauma 204:2 392:19 45:18 171:12,15
283:10 trained 47:23 234:4 394:8 twice 70:6 176:3
301:24 48:2 traumatic truthfully 115:14 179:17
303:18 trainer 237:1 115:25 10:4,8 294:10 184:1 201:6
309:16 246:17 116:2,14,16 try 40:12 two 16:5 206:16
318:16 263:14,17 119:4,6 59:6 69:2 36:11 42:6 209:19
319:13 263:18,21 121:19 70:9 72:23 49:18 54:16 211:9
322:1 323:3 287:22 122:23 100:25 54:22,24 243:23
326:17 297:23,24 154:10 105:6 134:9 61:21 62:14 248:12
329:8 297:25 155:1 146:15,22 73:4 117:9 259:18
332:11 298:8 156:20 165:18,25 130:21 261:11
335:16 307:14 202:22 168:23 158:25 266:24
337:10 309:23 203:15 188:15 160:18 272:16
339:15 319:1 236:4,4 232:10 161:2 162:3 285:16
341:13 trainers 35:4 treat 310:13 252:13 209:6 288:7
343:24 46:16,21,24 treating 287:17 216:25 293:12
344:5,8 47:10 75:7 49:24 312:8 254:1 256:6 301:12
358:10 94:9,10 260:21 320:18,24 270:5 328:17,21
384:20 131:21 treatment 325:20 276:15 329:13
topic 35:9 133:10 44:23 47:5 342:18 281:21 340:16
77:24 87:5 147:3 47:5 49:25 trying 31:23 296:9 343:8
87:10 134:6 198:24 73:7 103:11 34:9 38:19 299:19 362:22
251:10 236:25 103:13 38:19 46:5 336:3 368:23
273:8 244:16 104:9 50:8 68:15 356:22 ultimate
topics 88:8 253:20 131:23 69:12 83:25 370:14,15 255:3 279:4
Toronto 258:20 160:21 85:16 87:13 391:13 ultimately
177:21 272:20 312:8,8 95:10,15 two-page 56:10 59:5
182:7,7 292:10,18 treatments 105:9 109:1 54:15 59:8 72:25
total 266:8 294:10 312:6,7,15 169:25 two-way 248:23
touch 320:8 302:12 312:23 170:10,13 292:6 249:6 250:5
touching 303:23 340:9,10,15 185:21 two-year 299:21
178:18 304:13 341:3,9 199:25 280:15 306:24
224:8 306:15,17 tremendous 254:1 305:25 319:13
tour 22:3 307:4 308:3 69:17 261:14 type 154:13 355:17
311:17 310:12 trends 98:20 264:22 typical 52:7 357:7,9
390:16 311:2,16 239:8 250:9 335:5 103:23 unable 334:1
tours 294:3 312:11,11 Trevor 94:7 364:14 220:14 unclear 31:22
310:8 312:17 trick 386:4 383:3 258:2 uncomfort...
Tower 2:8 341:2 369:1 tricky 261:13 turn 62:2 typically 32:20
Townend 7:1 387:18 353:13 91:21 93:3 388:24 310:23
307:12 trainer's tried 69:15 93:9 183:3 T/C 358:10 uncommon
308:19 298:21 83:18 186:25 267:3 299:4
309:4,6 trainer-coll... 193:12 203:21 U underlying
337:24 251:7 214:17 221:6 U 8:23 344:15
338:24 training trouble 233:18 uh-huh 26:3 undermine
339:5,16,19 12:21 304:4 166:25 302:22 28:15 61:11 335:5

612.338.3376
Page 450
underneath 310:1 253:20 238:12 311:25 312:14

62:14 63:7 334:16 257:12,16 unsure 340:3,12,20 315:6 341:9
102:3 344:20 258:7,8 309:14 useful/app... 350:25
187:12 362:11 260:16 unwarranted 283:18 361:20
222:25 379:6 275:15,16 159:24 284:24 365:12
241:22 389:22 277:2,9 unwritten usually venting 311:5
242:5 309:1 390:6,9,14 278:25 347:24 263:25 311:19
361:6 understands 291:15 upcoming 312:19
362:18 118:11 293:24 313:2 V 328:6
understand understood 294:1 update vague 26:4 verbal 9:14
9:10,23 9:16 71:16 304:18 192:14 90:13 29:13
46:5 47:8 123:10 305:17 updates 103:17,21 verifiable
84:1 88:14 194:6 243:8 306:22,25 294:5 121:6 327:18
100:5 243:16 310:20 UPenn 13:1,5 154:13 version 264:8
107:18 289:10 311:8,16 upper 244:18 173:6,8 versions
110:3 292:1 325:9 upset 238:10 178:16 61:22
112:25 303:14 342:19,20 245:9 208:24 versus 97:10
113:25 underway 347:4 use 32:19,22 259:10 123:12
114:4 116:7 17:2 80:12 350:19,23 32:23 33:16 314:23,23 283:14
118:18 undue 159:23 351:5,7 47:4,4,5,8 316:5 veterans
119:1,3,11 161:10 352:5 68:1 76:21 vaguely 235:21
135:20 uneasy 295:4 354:15,20 80:6 100:1 196:23 vice 16:15,20
173:9 295:6 354:21 100:3 238:4 video 8:2,7
185:11,22 unfair 357:17 355:25 169:25 valid 185:19 45:5 72:4
186:5 194:1 unfit 332:20 357:9 170:12 234:3 133:12
201:7 333:22 366:23,23 173:4,10 validated 140:19
231:25 unified 367:22 193:7 244:13 141:4
239:12 310:18 387:19 205:14 249:8 151:13
250:9 unilaterally 388:21 215:11,12 253:15 152:11,18
287:16 193:15 390:25 215:17 validation 290:15
293:19 354:17,25 union's 49:5 217:12 255:4 291:13
297:22 union 22:1 56:7 110:4 223:10 validity 299:21
298:12 27:9 38:4 223:7,11,20 241:11 184:23 305:14,18
303:24 50:15,25 294:2 310:7 253:6,14 312:13,15 305:19,20
304:13 51:1 56:2 351:1 259:24 340:10,14 305:22,24
308:1 57:14,18,21 unique 377:6 264:14 340:15 306:25
310:16 59:8,14 382:8 388:2 266:11,14 341:10 307:2
314:3 69:13,16 388:25 266:17 value 80:23 311:14
316:12 75:12 95:21 UNITED 1:1 268:19 248:14 376:24
330:17 100:21 universal 302:25 250:15 389:6
334:21 104:5 352:1 305:7,14 253:13 videographer
366:2,11 108:17 University 326:5 261:7 2:22 8:1,21
379:7 127:1 12:4 108:10 331:25 value-added 76:8,11
understand... 146:25 128:7 131:1 332:2 369:1 262:18 127:12,15
80:5 114:3 148:4 178:22 374:13,16 266:21 175:9,14
116:6,19,22 167:19,20 181:25 383:1 valve 350:10 227:25
169:5 176:25 183:11 useful 46:23 Vancouver... 228:3
185:15 177:14 184:6 133:11 151:16 271:15,18
207:15 188:7 190:4 203:14 134:8 variety 225:6 317:25
234:9 193:8 unpack 199:16 various 64:4 318:3
242:25 197:25 165:17,25 200:7 114:20 372:17,20
253:18 207:9 218:3 unreasona... 202:18 192:13 386:16,19
261:12 218:12,21 355:25 224:1 253:5 195:11 392:25
270:15 219:8 225:2 unreliability 254:15 249:7 videos 45:7
276:25 230:8,23 126:16 304:6 293:13 46:3,6
303:1 304:9 231:3 unsafe 311:19,20 307:18 147:21

612.338.3376
Page 451
254:21 297:6,15,19 213:16 20:9 21:9 98:7 307:3

392:20 300:10 214:4 21:15 watching website
Videotaped 301:8 238:16 159:23 306:9,11 238:1,7,9
1:15 302:12,16 239:17 warnings 349:8 242:22
view 149:19 302:18 261:19 18:25 21:10 352:10 website's
153:13 303:2,16,22 271:12,13 21:17,22 water 66:23 244:10
157:24 305:13,16 273:17 148:8 177:2 waves 9:14 weekend
167:23 306:12 284:16,17 273:11 way 19:2 371:15
206:19 307:2,5,9 290:21 Washington 24:1 30:21 weekly
207:23 vivid 224:11 293:22,23 2:8 30:24 42:14 147:23
223:17,18 247:10 296:2,4 wasn't 16:13 42:17 59:11 243:17
223:18 voting 86:5 305:23 17:16,16 62:16 70:19 weeks 16:7
230:23 vulnerable 311:8 312:1 40:25 41:3 71:17 welcome
231:16 345:12 312:5,7 53:3,17,18 110:15 127:11
297:13 347:5 73:17 75:18 114:12 339:14
351:15 W 350:13 75:21 82:15 117:1,3 well-articul...
352:10,18 Wade 229:24 354:9 82:16,18 144:11 345:16
354:18,23 wait 53:12 357:11,13 92:24 93:2 151:23 well-respe...
viewed 217:9 123:17 357:19 95:14 96:10 155:25 330:19
290:12 162:17 359:19,22 120:8 156:2 160:8 335:4
291:3 168:25 360:1,2 136:17,24 160:12 went 12:25
views 42:10 171:8 362:9 141:18,19 163:21 13:5 14:13
49:4,5 235:14 365:22 141:24 193:11 14:15 21:11
126:15 241:4 346:8 366:2,11,24 142:1,1,2 194:6 28:21 29:5
131:5 Walkom 369:15 158:14 195:16 29:6,22
134:22 347:7,22 373:2 163:3,3 196:11 30:4,12
200:12,14 348:5 380:15 168:20 227:11 31:24 45:7
351:18,23 want 20:22 382:1 383:7 179:24 234:3 64:17 65:14
378:17 29:24 30:9 384:2 386:1 183:16 239:16 72:5 83:2
violate 31:13 38:24 387:10 192:23 249:1,7,9 85:10
294:23 39:6 43:16 wanted 53:16 197:11,15 249:16,19 109:16
violated 48:24 52:25 88:22 91:12 204:11 250:11 115:4
295:25 53:7 57:7 98:23 129:6 238:9 251:3 134:10
296:4 73:19 84:1 133:4,17 242:22 278:15 167:14,19
violating 86:17,23 140:24 246:8,25 281:5 306:3 167:20,21
296:10 87:19 88:1 184:7 253:15 324:12,22 167:21
violation 88:7 93:4 185:10 254:7 260:5 327:18 169:18
314:12 95:1,10 204:9 260:6 275:4 331:6,12,16 188:20
violence 96:15 205:15 277:23 331:17 262:1
353:21 111:15 225:7 297:8 298:7 333:10 272:14
virtually 122:3 130:9 228:23 313:7 328:7 335:2,5 274:21
333:24 138:1 144:5 242:11 328:19 347:4 349:9 307:7 334:7
visible 262:22 146:3 292:1,4 347:10 349:10 334:22
263:8 162:22 338:8 351:1 366:22 368:17,19 339:25
268:12 164:21 351:3 367:13,20 375:19 347:12
279:9,16,17 166:5,12 356:21 369:12 379:4 weren't
279:18 167:10 375:10 378:3,8 394:12 41:19 53:5
280:14 170:9 387:11 382:13,14 ways 33:12 53:13 82:13
281:8,25 172:16 wanting 392:1 33:15,17 82:13 85:15
282:11 174:2,4,5,6 136:4 waste 144:7 194:19 93:23 124:5
287:13,21 184:18 wants 166:1 333:5 334:4 234:15 124:15
288:17 185:12 174:16 334:8 278:5 137:6
289:14 193:5,20 210:19 watch 98:14 wear 206:3 139:18,24
290:8,13 205:3 206:8 268:20 98:15 webinars 141:17,17
291:3,20 210:5,23 warn 157:11 342:25 294:4 141:17,21
296:19 212:9 213:6 warning 20:1 watched 98:5 304:17 155:5

612.338.3376
Page 452
171:25 219:2,8 293:10,25 243:23 176:22 14:6,22

196:25 228:1,4 294:4,8 285:3 216:4 225:9 16:1 17:18
200:16 230:8,8,9 305:3,10 Winne's 247:17 27:13,16,18
238:12 254:19,21 307:1 167:23 250:1 27:20 146:9
310:24 271:16,19 309:21 wish 138:22 256:24 152:23
320:16 284:4 321:23 withdraw 259:24 192:18
334:9 294:16,17 326:9 137:21,23 303:1 237:9,12
Westin 5:10 294:18 342:16 137:24 333:10 291:14
233:7 310:7,18 350:21 172:19 344:7 372:5 293:25
we'll 51:17 311:11 362:10 237:22 work 14:17 342:16
51:18 58:12 313:9,9 365:12,14 withheld 14:19 15:24 345:13
118:24 318:1,4,5,8 365:18 355:25 16:6 21:5 364:2
166:10 320:22,24 376:17,17 witness 3:2 22:16 23:14 365:11
202:17 324:5 whatsoever 8:18,22,23 27:4,8 Workers
206:14 332:10 145:1 66:23 74:21 30:21 39:21 139:3
292:19 335:14 white 2:2 126:19 45:25 69:17 373:14,18
333:13 336:22 84:8 85:16 127:10 89:25 94:13 373:23
360:5 339:11,23 306:21 166:11,14 94:15,23 374:3,10
371:24 348:18 whiz 245:3 175:2,7 95:20,22 worker-es...
372:10,14 372:18,21 wide 351:23 202:9 222:7 100:25 247:10,23
372:15 376:14,23 Wideman 225:17 103:20 working
386:13,14 386:17,20 261:17,21 284:15 142:24 13:21,24
we're 21:3 we've 18:14 262:8 263:5 317:20 146:4,12 14:1 15:8
26:24 45:1 21:6 35:3 297:3,5,14 383:9 394:6 148:17,18 15:11,12,16
45:5 46:18 57:17 69:17 298:2,20,22 394:9 149:14 15:18,19,22
47:6,21 76:2 83:3 wife 39:4 witnesses 165:6 17:17,23
50:5 51:2,5 93:5 104:16 wife's 219:19 214:16 168:14 25:4,10,15
51:7,8 109:25 Willem 3:13 wiz 65:23 178:14 25:18 26:24
53:20 58:1 110:1 4:13 7:10 WM 243:10 179:19 27:12 44:20
63:22 65:12 114:13 59:20 186:7 woefully 181:13,16 46:1 60:22
76:9,12 129:25 360:20 173:7 188:24 61:1,18
83:7 85:7 132:12 361:4 Wolfe 3:17 189:4 194:7 70:18 75:9
85:13 94:25 143:3,14 willfully 78:13 199:17 92:2 100:14
109:7 146:9 320:11 wonderful 202:7,13,20 107:1 126:9
115:13 148:12,13 willing 378:20 237:24 127:4,6
127:13,16 150:22 273:19 wondering 242:15,16 129:14,22
131:17 151:9 157:4 329:17 11:1,9,11 245:20 133:2 134:4
133:2 177:11,13 347:25 199:8 246:22 140:6
146:21,24 182:18 willingness word 44:13 248:13 146:25,25
146:24,24 186:1,1,3,3 223:7 55:22 62:9 249:18 156:16
146:24 189:15,16 Winne 4:6 164:21 252:7 159:18
147:22 197:20,21 5:1 24:3 205:14 257:18 169:2
148:22 197:25 61:25 72:18 207:21 258:19,20 176:11
149:3,9,11 198:1,1,1,2 89:24 98:17 256:9 260:25 182:2
149:16 198:3,3 166:16 266:10,12 286:8 287:5 186:17
172:7 200:19 167:20 266:17 287:11,18 192:8,19
175:10 202:23 168:4 379:19 291:6 194:7,20
177:3 186:3 203:2 226:2 187:17,18 words 33:17 301:14 195:1,4,6
189:16,25 226:3 233:2 187:22 62:7 63:4,7 321:16 197:6 207:1
189:25 249:20 188:13,17 67:24 74:10 325:20 207:2,9,10
190:4 279:25 188:23 76:22 80:6 347:2 355:7 207:25
191:22 282:18,19 189:1 84:22 89:4 362:1 213:23
192:2 282:21,24 198:25 171:13 368:18 235:19,25
209:15 282:24 220:21 172:23 371:14 237:25
210:15 283:2 240:24 173:4,10 382:21 242:18
212:22,23 292:16 242:15 175:22 worked 14:4 243:1

612.338.3376
Page 453
245:18,20 341:11 161:17 yearly 147:23 179:8 196:12,15

245:22 375:16 167:9 years 25:12 04 246:15,21 196:17
252:12 writing 240:4 171:18 26:15,19 057 3:13 362:14
258:7 259:1 275:6,7 181:2,4 72:6 83:7 59:21 12/4 358:10
285:2 288:25 191:16 98:5,14 069 6:10 12/5 358:13
304:20 335:15 202:13 134:7,11 321:8 12:37 175:9
309:6 347:1,2 208:14 156:16 09 211:18 13 3:15 4:11
320:18,24 written 18:25 216:23 248:17 226:1 6:9 66:18
339:16 21:21 22:4 221:4 222:4 249:21,22 182:14,17
340:9 371:7 83:23 160:8 224:14 257:17 1 182:19
works 9:10 197:5 229:4,22 276:15 1 3:8,10 4:6 183:21
25:19 92:14 274:20 235:10 305:11,17 4:23 6:14 198:16
92:15 275:7 238:15 310:11 6:16 8:2 300:10,18
242:10 282:21 256:6,10,18 315:1 43:2,6 54:3 321:6
300:5 333:2 290:20 257:1 317:17 54:9 60:2 362:24
world 125:17 346:25 261:15 323:11 64:19 1315 3:20
377:19 wrong 11:3 264:22 350:21 166:16 89:8
worry 150:11 23:25 44:12 267:6,11 356:22 213:11 132 4:2
worth 72:6 190:9 229:3 271:13 376:19 323:21 1342 339:24
248:13 266:10 282:4 382:12 324:4 1343 7:2
284:6 327:19 286:16 year-to-year 326:11 339:8
worthy 349:1 296:8 26:23 372:24 14 4:13 6:6
220:11 wrongfully 300:14 Yep 26:1 1st 213:9,18 186:11,14
wouldn't 334:14 313:24 93:16 1:27 175:13 191:22
34:6 38:6 wrote 48:17 321:22 yesterday 175:14 208:15
62:16 72:1 143:22,25 331:19,22 302:4 10 3:18 4:5 210:9
81:17 86:23 144:4 338:4 370:24 4:21 6:22 318:10,15
87:19 183:23 340:14 Yikes 337:11 78:15 374:14
136:23 185:22 345:24 York 1:17,18 101:24 14-2551 1:6
142:23 225:7 256:8 346:20 1:20 2:14 151:10,17 143 5:3
191:25 288:23 352:14,18 2:14 8:25 159:14 220:24
192:25 289:3 299:1 359:20,24 76:17 209:10 15 4:16 6:1
193:10 299:2 323:5 362:20 115:11 247:20 6:20 7:4
240:6 284:9 344:1,11 372:1,9,12 123:25 335:8,18 101:19
290:16 345:14 376:9 394:4 389:2 200:20,24
305:23 375:13 383:20 young 185:3 10/29/2010 254:18
331:13,16 384:4,13,18 206:13 186:16 301:18,25
347:2 X year 12:9 207:12,18 10:14 76:8 308:19
373:20,21 x 1:4,9 3:1 16:18 51:13 yup 113:11 10:28 76:11 332:4,12
379:3 239:21 119:18 187:25 10036 2:14 343:10
wrench 153:7 191:12 101 3:21 368:1
201:24 Y 189:25 218:16 1025 2:8 391:18
wrinkle 223:7 yeah 11:15 238:22 104 4:1 15-16 3:23
wrist 27:7 15:7 21:20 240:6 Z 11 3:8 4:6,19 101:11
write 83:20 36:11 41:22 253:22 Zamuner 5:17 43:4 151 4:5
144:10 44:3 45:23 261:22 218:4 43:10 44:1 159 4:7
229:2 48:4 49:10 275:8 zero 131:10 73:21 74:8 166:18
247:11 52:11,15 276:14 248:14,14 107:19 16 4:18 6:4
255:23 55:4 58:9 294:10,11 Zimmerman 166:19,22 101:19
344:8 74:2,19,21 294:11,12 326:21 175:18 151:24
349:23 82:15 87:18 307:8 Zurich 341:6 203:7 159:17
352:23 95:14 106:6 311:13 255:10,18 203:3,8
375:21 109:12 315:4 324:5 0 11:26 127:12 308:13
writer 250:18 128:14 328:8 006 4:12 11:41 127:15 161 2:8
writes 326:22 149:19 365:11 182:14 12 4:8 179:3 166 4:6
338:2 150:4 366:4 039 4:10 179:8 196:7 17 4:20 7:11

612.338.3376
Page 454
7:15 209:12 2:40 228:3 210:20 272:10,18 283:12 228 5:6

209:16 20 5:4 7:1 323:22 274:17 368:7 390:1 23 5:12
360:21 94:6 144:4 324:4 293:16 391:10 240:16,20
361:5 156:16 325:12 326:11 2013 5:7,9 233 5:9
374:22 201:17 329:23 328:11,20 6:2,4 7:1,6 24 4:3,12
380:12 222:16,20 353:12 328:25 7:11 28:22 5:15 104:19
172 6:7 262:1 267:8 374:22 329:7 332:4 108:24 132:6,14
318:12 338:4 339:6 375:16 332:13,21 201:16,17 182:12,22
179 4:8 395:22 376:13 346:2,4 228:9,15 247:16
18 4:23 5:7 2000 26:8 380:20 366:4,12 232:13,15 248:2 276:5
213:7,13 97:25 381:2 367:24 233:6,16 279:2 371:1
228:9,15 198:16 2009 3:18,20 368:5 268:2 372:25
182 4:11 251:12 3:24 63:25 2011 4:16,19 273:23 240 5:12
186 4:13 364:15 73:17,22 5:22 6:22 301:19,25 248 5:15
19 5:1 220:19 365:11 74:8,19 7:4,20 308:13,19 25 5:17
220:24 2000s 294:13 78:1,14,25 171:23 310:7 255:12,15
349:21 2001 98:6 79:3 80:14 195:19 311:23 359:20
1900s 156:19 238:22 89:5,7 200:22 313:7 338:4 25,000
1928 154:25 240:25 101:11,17 203:6 339:6 341:5 298:15
19428 2:9 251:13 101:19 229:23 349:15,21 255 5:17
1971101 3:9 270:7 274:1 107:19 288:11,20 360:15,22 26 5:19,19
43:5 2002 16:15 127:24 290:23 361:5,11 283:1,3,5,7
1994 13:7 251:13 128:20 291:19 362:5 283:12
1997 17:4 2003 362:15 129:17,17 295:22 363:16 2600 2:3
19:17 22:16 362:24 129:18 335:8,18 2014 58:17 27 5:21 288:8
23:2 69:18 2004 246:6 132:19 336:22 2015 151:24 288:13
232:15 257:20 133:1,8,13 343:10 159:17 299:1,2
252:8 272:9 270:7 138:5 140:1 344:12 291:18 273 4:4 6:21
272:15,18 2005 153:16 140:5 345:23,25 390:11 132:8 332:6
273:20 153:20 141:13 384:6 2015/16 28 3:18 6:1
274:14 247:20 155:14,15 390:15 151:12,21 78:14,25
1999 14:16 2006 5:17 156:4 391:9 389:6 79:3 301:16
15:4 16:12 45:7 251:17 189:19 2012 3:10 2016 1:18 301:21
16:25 17:9 255:11,18 191:7 210:4 4:21,23 5:2 7:14 8:5 375:16
18:8,12,24 362:24 211:3 212:3 5:4,19 373:6 393:2 283 5:19
21:10,17,21 2007 6:7,9,12 212:9 50:22 54:3 395:4 284 4:22
22:8,11,16 314:24 229:14,19 54:9 64:20 203 4:18 209:12
25:15 153:7 316:1,3 329:23 66:2,10 2060686 288 5:5,21
153:9 318:11,16 201 2:3 4:16 80:19 96:2 380:13 222:16
157:17,18 320:4,9 2010 4:3,7,9 123:24 209 4:20 29 4:14 6:3
251:2 321:6 322:1 4:12,14 208:19,22 21 5:6 7:6 186:8
389:19 322:6 6:16,18,20 209:10 228:6,17 190:25
325:12 64:10 211:8,12,13 349:15 208:17
2 2008 3:8,15 104:20 211:23 365:25 221:7
2 3:10 4:16 6:14 7:15 106:18 212:8,20 212)735-3... 308:15,21
5:2 6:18 7:18 42:3 127:24 213:9,11,18 2:18 298 4:15
53:21 54:5 43:4,10 132:6,14 219:7 21201 2:3 186:10
54:8 102:7 44:1,7,18 166:17 220:22 213 4:23
200:22 45:7 52:20 179:6 221:5,7 2188574 3
220:22 58:16 60:2 182:12,23 222:14,21 358:20 3 1:18 3:3,12
221:5 63:24 66:3 186:9 188:3 226:2 230:7 22 5:9 7:14 59:18,22
328:25 66:6,9,18 188:5 231:3 233:3,11 104:6
329:7 73:14 77:5 190:25 267:17,25 355:14 132:18
2/10/2012 106:17 194:12 267:25 373:6 393:2 395:4
209:18 108:23 208:17 268:23,25 221 5:1 3rd 8:5
2:26 227:25 197:21 272:3,7,8 269:5 283:5 222 5:4 134:23

612.338.3376
Page 455
135:1 384 7:20 176:18 288:11,20

3/13/2008 386 3:4 276:5 279:3 322:1,6
67:4 39 7:3 343:7 346:2,7,7 8th 290:23
3:28 271:15 343:12 346:14 295:22
3:39 271:18 391 3:3 356:16,22 8/4/16
30 6:6 134:21 357:1,6,25 394:14
144:4 276:7 4 484)342-0... 8:00 5:9
299:3 4 3:14 4:9 5:9 2:10 233:6
300:19 7:18 66:20 820 5:20
318:8,13 67:2 69:8 5 283:7
332:21 70:22 74:23 5 3:17 4:19 826 5:11
355:22 93:3,9 61:3 78:11 233:10
30th 133:1 106:4,7,17 78:16 203:6 89 3:19
301 6:1 179:6 233:5 5:44 372:17 897 5:23
303 3:11 54:5 233:16 5:58 372:20 288:12
308 6:3 380:20 50 105:25
31 6:8 300:8 4th 381:2 500 20:24 9
300:19 4/1/08 60:13 197:10,14 9 4:2 7:20
321:1,8 4:00 5:10 531 7:21 132:8,12
318 6:6 233:6 384:8 140:13
32 6:11 4:30 317:25 54 3:10 191:17
321:24 4:44 318:3 57 62:3 384:6
322:8 40 7:5 258:18 580 358:16 9:02 1:18 8:6
321 6:8 349:17 589 7:19 90 358:20
322 6:11 41 7:8 358:3 380:22 90s 22:24
324 6:13 358:6 59 3:12 907 5:14
326 6:15 410)385-2... 590 7:9 358:6 240:20
329 6:17 2:5 91 12:10
33 6:13 416 3:24 6 931 7:7
323:23 101:12 6 3:19 89:3,9 349:17
324:2 42 7:10 91:21 95 344:12
332 6:19 300:11,19 6:15 386:16 97 14:12
335 6:22 360:24 6:28 386:19 187:1
339 7:1 361:2 6:35 392:25 195:13
34 6:15 326:9 427 5:8 393:4 246:15,21
326:13 228:16 620 6:5 274:25
343 7:3 43 3:8 7:13 308:14 98 275:1,1
344 6:2 372:23 66 3:14 99 14:15
301:20 373:7,11 689 7:16 251:9,11,12
349 7:5 374:20 374:24 251:12
35 6:17 380:7,11 380:14 996 7:12
258:18 391:16 360:23
329:2,6 44 7:15 7
358 7:8 374:24 7 3:21 5:4
36 6:19 332:6 380:10,12 101:5,13
332:10 45 7:17 222:14,21
361 7:10 105:25 240:25
37 6:22 380:22 7th 105:9
335:10,14 381:1 759 6:12
373 7:13 459 6:23 322:7
375 7:15 335:10 78 3:17
379 5:16 46 7:20
248:1 383:23 8
38 7:1 339:8 384:8 8 4:1 5:22
339:12 48 46:10 6:11 104:13
380 7:17 121:12,14 104:17

612.338.3376

2016-08-03 - (Grand, Julie) Final REDACTED - Condensed

Uploaded by

Document Information

Original Description:

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

2016-08-03 - (Grand, Julie) Final REDACTED - Condensed

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order - Deposition of Julie Grand - 8/3/2016

In Re: National Hockey League Players' Concussion Injury Litigation

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 98 Page 100

Page 99 Page 101

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 102 Page 104

Page 103 Page 105

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 106 Page 108

Page 107 Page 109

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 110 Page 112

Page 111 Page 113

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 114 Page 116

Page 115 Page 117

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 118 Page 120

Page 119 Page 121

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 122 Page 124

Page 123 Page 125

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 126 Page 128

Page 127 Page 129

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 130 Page 132

Page 131 Page 133

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 134 Page 136

Page 135 Page 137

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 138 Page 140

Page 139 Page 141

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 142 Page 144

Page 143 Page 145

Benchmark Reporting Agency