2015-09-10 - (Jacobs, Jeremy) Final REDACTED - Condensed

Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order - Deposition of Jeremy Jacobs - 9/10/2015
In Re: National Hockey League Players' Concussion Injury Litigation
1 VIDEO DEPOSITION
JEREMY MAURICE JACOBS
2
3
4
5 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA
6
7 ----------------------------------------
IN RE: NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE MDL No.
8 PLAYERS' CONCUSSION INJURY 14-2551(SRN/JSM)
LITIGATION
9
This Document Relates to: ALL ACTIONS
10 ----------------------------------------
11
12
13
14 Examination before trial of JEREMY
15 MAURICE JACOBS, taken pursuant to the Federal Rules
16 of Civil Procedure, in the offices of JACK W.
17 HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC., 1120 Liberty Building,
18 Buffalo, New York, on September 10, 2015,
19 commencing at 8:43 a.m., before JOAN M.
20 METZGER-HUBBELL, CRR, RMR, RPR, Notary Public.
21
22
23
24
25
Benchmark Reporting Agency

612.338.3376
Page 2 Page 4
1 APPEARANCES: ROBBINS GELLER RUDMAN & DOWD LLP, 1
By STUART A. DAVIDSON, ESQ., INDEX TO EXHIBITS (Cont.)
2 sdavidson@rgrdlaw.com, and
2
KATHLEEN B. DOUGLAS, ESQ.,
3 kdouglas@rgrdlaw.com, Exhibit Description Page
120 East Palmetto Park Road, 3
4 Suite 500, EXH. 17 news article 201
Boca Raton, Florida 33432, 4
5 (561) 750-3000, EXH. 18 document entitled NHL Fan 209
Appearing for the Plaintiffs. 5 Attitude Study, 20 pages
6
SKADDEN, ARPS, SLATE,
6 EXH. 19 e-mails 212
7 MEAGHER & FLOM LLP, 7 EXH. 20 e-mails, two pages 224
By SHEPARD GOLDFEIN, ESQ., 8 EXH. 21 article from the Toronto 232
8 shepard.goldfein@skadden.com and Star, five pages
GREGORY A. CRAPANZANO II, ESQ., 9
9 gregory.crapanzo@skadden.com, EXH. 22 e-mail chain, two pages 238
Four Times Square,
10
10 New York, New York 10036,
(212) 735-3000, EXH. 23 document entitled 246
11 Appearing for the National Hockey 11 Concussion
League and the Witness. 12 EXH. 24 document entitled 248
12 Concussion, A Must Read For
BRYAN CAVE LLP, 13 NFL Players
13 By LAWRENCE G. SCARBOROUGH, ESQ.,
14 EXH. 25 e-mail chain 255
1290 Avenue of the Americas,
14 New York, New York 10104-3300, 15 EXH. 26 e-mail chain, three pages 260
(212) 541-1137, 16 EXH. 27 e-mail chain, seven pages 266
15 lgscarborough@bryancave.com, 17 EXH. 28 e-mail, with attached 284
Appearing for the U.S. National memorandum
16 Hockey League Clubs and 18
the Witness.
EXH. 29 e-mail chain, three pages 292
17
PRESENT: SCOTT D. BADASZEWSKI, CLVS, 19
18 Videographer EXH. 30 memorandum dated November 297
19 20 24, 2008, two pages
20 21
21 22
22 23
23
24 24
25 25
Page 3 Page 5
1 INDEX TO EXHIBITS 1 INDEX TO WITNESSES
2 Exhibit Description Page
2 Witness Examination Page
3 EXH. 1 e-mail, with attached 41
article 3 JEREMY MAURICE BY MR. DAVIDSON: 7
4
JACOBS
EXH. 2 e-mail chain 58
5 4 BY MR. GOLDFEIN: 297
EXH. 3 agenda for general managers 67 5
6 meeting, three pages
7 EXH. 4 e-mails, three pages 84 6
8 EXH. 5 e-mail, six pages 93 7
9 EXH. 6 e-mails, two pages 97
10 EXH. 7 e-mail string 107 8
11 EXH. 8 e-mail string 110 9
12 EXH. 9 e-mail chain 118
13 EXH. 10 minutes of meeting of the 139 10
general managers, 12 pages 11
14
12
EXH. 11 minutes of meeting of the 149
15 board of governors, seven 13
pages
14
16
EXH. 12 e-mail chain, four pages 158 15
17 16
EXH. 13 video 171
18 17
EXH. 14 letter dated August 29, 185 18
19 1974, to Mr. F.C. Bett from
C.S. Campbell, two pages 19
20 20
EXH. 15 letter dated March 18, 188
21 1977, to Ms. Lorraine 21
Catalano from C.S. 22
22 Campbell, three pages
23 EXH. 16 memo dated April 26, 1991, 197
23
to Harry Sinden from Brian 24
24 O'Neill, with attachment
25
25

612.338.3376
Page 6 Page 8
1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now on the record. 1 Q. Have you ever given a deposition in any
2 The time is 8:45 a.m. This is the video-recorded 2 way relating to the National Hockey League?
3 testimony of Jeremy Jacobs used in the matter of 3 A. I don't have a recollection of it.
4 National Hockey League Players Concussion Injury 4 Q. Okay. Do you -- you may recall some of
5 Litigation, case number 14-2551. It is filed in 5 the rules, and I'm sure Mr. Goldfein went over some
6 the United States District Court, District of 6 of them with you before your deposition today, but
7 Minnesota. The court reporter is Joan Metzger of 7 very few. One rule is that you should answer out
8 Jack W. Hunt & Associates. My name is Scott 8 loud with words instead of nodding your head or
9 Badaszewski. I'm also with the same firm. 9 shaking your head, because the court reporter can't
10 Will counsel and all present please 10 take those down.
11 introduce themselves for the record. 11 Do you understand that?
12 MR. DAVIDSON: Stuart Davidson, Robbins, 12 A. Yes.
13 Geller, Rudman & Dowd, on behalf of the plaintiffs. 13 Q. Okay. If you don't understand one of
14 MS. DOUGLAS: Kathleen Douglas, Robbins, 14 my questions, I would ask you to please tell me you
15 Geller, Rudman & Dowd, on behalf of the plaintiff. 15 don't understand it and ask me to rephrase it. If
16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Shep Goldfein, Skadden, Arps, 16 you answer a question, I'm going to assume that you
17 on behalf of the National Hockey League and 17 understood it.
18 Mr. Jacobs as a member of the board of governors. 18 Do you understand that?
19 MR. CRAPANZANO: Greg Crapanzano with 19 A. Yes.
20 Skadden, Arps, representing the National Hockey 20 Q. Okay. If you need to take any breaks
21 League and Mr. Jacobs as a member of the board of 21 whatsoever, just let us know. It's not an
22 governors. 22 endurance test, and I may need breaks before you
23 MR. SCARBOROUGH: Larry Scarborough of Bryan 23 do. So we'll take as many breaks as -- as we need
24 Cave representing the nonparty U.S. National Hockey 24 it.
25 League clubs and Mr. Jacobs not in his capacity as 25 This deposition is being recorded by a court
Page 7 Page 9
1 a governor of the NHL board of governors. 1 reporter and by a videographer. Do you understand
2 2 that?
3 JEREMY MAURICE J A C O B S, 1300 3 A. Yes.
4 North Davis Road, East Aurora, New York, after 4 Q. And let's not -- let's try not to talk
5 being duly called and sworn, testified as follows: 5 over each other. When I'm asking questions, you'll
6 6 listen to the question and then answer it, and I'll
7 EXAMINATION BY MR. DAVIDSON: 7 try not to talk over you as well, okay?
8 8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Good morning, Mr. Jacobs. Have you 9
10 ever given a deposition before? 10
11 A. Yes. 11
12 Q. How many times, approximately? 12
13 A. I have no idea. 13
14 Q. More than a dozen? 14
15 A. No. 15
16 Q. Less than six? 16
17 A. No. I'd say -- I'd say maybe a dozen, 17
18 maybe. 18
19 Q. When was the last time? 19
20 A. A couple years now, I'd say. 20
21 Q. Have you ever given a deposition in 21
22 connection with your capacity as an owner of the 22
23 Boston Bruins? 23
24 A. I may have. I don't have a 24 Q. So how did you prepare for your
25 recollection of it. 25 deposition today?

612.338.3376
Page 10 Page 12
1 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 1
2 question to the extent he's asking you to disclose 2
3 any communications with counsel. You can -- you 3
4 can just generally tell him subject to that. 4
5 THE WITNESS: I spoke with my counsel here. 5
6 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 6
7 Q. Did you meet with them in advance of 7
8 today's deposition? 8
9 A. Yes. 9
10 Q. And without going into any of the 10
11 conversations that you had with them, when did you 11
12 meet with them? 12
13 A. This week. 13
14 Q. How many times? 14
15 A. Twice. 15
16 Q. For how long, approximately, each time? 16
17 A. A couple of hours each time. 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 11 Page 13
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22 Q. And you have a son, Charlie, who is now
23 23 the principal of the Boston Bruins; is that
24 24 correct?
25 25 A. He is the chairman of that, yes.

612.338.3376
Page 14 Page 16
1 Q. Do you have any other relatives that 1 available in '75?
2 are working for the Bruins organization? 2 A. Yes.
3 A. No, no. 3 Q. Who was the prior owner?
4 Q. What is your current occupation? 4 A. A communication company out of -- out
5 A. I'm chairman of Delaware North Company. 5 of Fort Lauderdale. The name escapes me right now.
6 Q. Is that a company based in Buffalo, 6 I'll think of it. I can't remember exactly.
7 New York? 7 Q. Now, you had mentioned that --
8 A. Yes, it is. 8 A. Storer -- excuse me, Storer, I'm sorry,
9 Q. You're no longer the CEO of that 9 Storer Broadcasting.
10 company? 10 Q. Can you spell that for the court
11 A. No. 11 reporter?
12 Q. There are two CEOs at the moment? 12 A. S-T-O-R-E-R is my recollection. I
13 A. Joint CEOs, yes. 13 don't know if that's correct.
14 Q. And who are they? 14 Q. Okay. And I apologize for cutting you
15 A. Two of my sons. 15 off.
16 Q. What are their names? 16 A. No problem.
17 A. Louie and Jerry or Jeremy, Jr. 17 Q. When -- so when you purchased the
18 Q. When did you purchase the Boston 18 Bruins, you were interested in it primarily as a
19 Bruins? 19 business -- for business purposes or because you
20 A. 1975. 20 were a fan or a combination of both?
21 Q. And why did you do that? 21 A. I purchased the Bruins and the building
22 A. It was a good deal for me. I had a 22 at the time. I felt it was a good business
23 desire to own the team. 23 opportunity, and I was also a fan.
24 Q. All right. Were you always interested 24 Q. Would you say the principal reason for
25 in hockey? 25 buying the Bruins and the building was for business
Page 15 Page 17
1 A. Yes. 1 reasons?
2 Q. Did you play as a kid? 2 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
3 A. Very little. 3 question.
4 Q. Why were you interested in the sport? 4 THE WITNESS: I found that the -- I found
5 A. Why was I interested in the sport? 5 that they were -- they were mutually, you know,
6 From a business standpoint I was interested in the 6 satisfactory to me. They -- it served both
7 sport because we did catering at a number of 7 purposes.
8 locations. I was active in the creation of the 8 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
9 Sabres here in Buffalo, helping them get the new 9 Q. Now, when you came into the league in
10 franchise here back in the early '70s. 10 1975 as an owner, did you know much about how the
11 Q. All right. 11 league was run?
12 A. When I heard that the Bruins were 12 A. No. I would say I learned most of it
13 available, I expressed an interest in buying them. 13 since, subsequent to that.
14 Q. Now, when the Sabres were formed in the 14 Q. So did you have any ideas as to any
15 early '70s, the Knox family -- 15 changes you wanted to make to the league when you
16 A. Yes. 16 first became an owner?
17 Q. -- were the principal owners; is that 17 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
18 right? 18 question.
19 A. Yes. 19 THE WITNESS: I didn't come in with any
20 Q. Were you interested in being an owner 20 preconceived thoughts or directions.
21 of the Sabres at the time? 21 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
22 A. No. 22 Q. Did you have an opinion in 1975 when
23 Q. Why not? 23 you purchased the Bruins on whether fist fighting
24 A. I didn't want to be a partial owner. 24 should be tolerated in the NHL game?
25 Q. Gotcha. And then the Bruins became 25 A. I have no recollection of that at all.

612.338.3376
Page 18 Page 20
1 Q. Okay. Do you have a view now? 1 question.
2 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 2 THE WITNESS: Are you telling me that's how
3 question. 3 many there are?
4 THE WITNESS: Of what? 4 MR. DAVIDSON: I'm asking you if you are
5 MR. DAVIDSON: Of whether fist fighting 5 aware of that.
6 should be part of the NHL hockey game. 6 THE WITNESS: That's different. No.
7 MR. GOLDFEIN: That's a different question 7 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
8 than you asked previously. Object to the form of 8
9 the question. 9
10 THE WITNESS: I believe that it should be 10
11 controlled. 11
13 Q. And what do you mean by that? 13
14 A. I think as it is today, it's -- it's 14
15 against the rule, and they're penalized for fist 15
16 fighting today. 16
17 Q. Right. Do you think the penalties 17
18 should be increased? 18
19 A. I think they handle it very well. 19
20 Q. Who's "they"? 20
21 A. The officials, on-ice officials. 21
22 Q. So, in your opinion, the amount of fist 22
23 fighting that takes place in an NHL game is 23
24 acceptable to you? 24
Page 19 Page 21
1 question. 1
2 THE WITNESS: That's a different question. 2
3 MR. DAVIDSON: That's a new question I'm 3
4 asking. 4
5 THE WITNESS: The amount, it varies from one 5
6 game to the next, so there is no preconceived 6
7 amount that I know of. 7
9 Q. Well, there's hundreds of fights in an 9
10 NHL season every year, correct? 10
12 question. 12
13 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 13
15 Q. You don't keep track of how many fights 15
16 there are in an NHL season? 16
17 A. That isn't what you said. 17
18 Q. I'm asking you. Do you keep track? 18
19 A. No, your question was there are 19
20 hundreds. 20
21 Q. Right. 21
22 A. I do not keep track. 22
23 Q. Okay. Are you aware that there are 23
24 hundreds of fights in an NHL season every year? 24

612.338.3376
Page 22 Page 24
1 1 of governors since 1975?
2 2 A. Yes.
3 3 Q. All right. And you've been the
4 4 chairman of the board since '07, correct?
5 5 A. Sounds about right.
6 6 Q. Do you receive documents when you
7 7 attend board of governors meetings?
8 8 A. We receive a program of what -- what is
9 9 going to happen for that event, yes. We do an
10 10 outline.
11 11 Q. An agenda?
12 12 A. We would get an agenda.
13 13 Q. And do you ever receive presentations
14 14 at those meetings that are in paper form?
15 15 A. We --
16 16 MR. GOLDFEIN: I'm going to object to the
17 17 form of the question. A little confusing.
18 18 THE WITNESS: Most information is now
19 19 electronically.
20 20 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 23 Page 25
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4 Q. How often do you use e-mail?
5 5 A. Every day.
6 6 Q. And you don't know -- what's your
7 7 e-mail address?
8 8 A. I don't know. I could call and find
9 9 out.
10 10 Q. That's all right. Do you -- do you
11 11 know if you have a Boston Bruins e-mail address?
12 Q. Okay. Do you recall having to produce 12 A. I don't know.
13 documents to the plaintiffs in this lawsuit? 13 Q. Do you have a Delaware North e-mail
14 A. No. 14 address?
15 Q. Were you aware that -- that requests 15 A. Yes.
16 for documents had been made to members of the board 16 Q. Okay. When you are conducting board of
17 of governors in this lawsuit? 17 governors business, have you used e-mail to do so?
18 A. I know that we -- that information of 18 A. Yes.
19 that type would have gone to the -- to the team and 19 Q. And you've communicated occasionally
20 would have been produced from them for -- for this 20 with Commissioner Bettman via e-mail?
21 event. 21 A. Yes.
22 Q. You're a member of the board of 22 Q. And do you know what e-mail address you
23 governors, correct? 23 used to do that?
24 A. Yes. 24 A. No.
25 Q. And you've been a member of the board 25 Q. Have you turned over e-mails that

612.338.3376
Page 26 Page 28
1 you've conducted league business with in this 1 went into existence?
2 litigation? 2 A. No.
3 A. Complied with what counsel tells me to. 3 Q. Have you heard of them?
4 Q. Do you know how you went about 4 A. Yes.
5 complying? 5 Q. What knowledge do you have of the
6 A. No. 6 concussion protocols?
7 Q. Do you know if somebody collected your 7 A. That we have protocol.
8 e-mails? 8 Q. Okay. Do you know what they're for?
9 A. I believe that to be the case. 9 A. They're medical, technical, technically
10 Q. Do you use text messages at all? Do 10 medical.
11 you ever text people? 11 Q. Okay. Is it for player safety
12 A. Some, yes. 12 purposes?
13 Q. Have you ever used text messages to 13 A. Health and safety.
14 text with any other owner? 14 Q. Health and safety? Prior to the
15 A. Oh, yes. 15 concussion protocols being put in place, are you
16 Q. Have you ever used text messages to 16 aware of any other steps that the NHL took with
17 text with any officer of the NHL? 17 respect to diagnosis and treatment of concussions?
18 A. Yes. 18 A. No.
19 Q. Including Commissioner Bettman? 19 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
20 A. Yes. 20 question. Lacking foundation.
21 Q. And I assume those text messages are 21 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
22 done on your cell phone? 22 Q. You can answer the question.
23 A. Yes. 23 A. Can you tell me what you said?
24 Q. Do you know what -- if you have Verizon 24 Q. I'll try. Prior to the NHL concussion
25 or AT&T? 25 protocols being put in place, are you aware of any
Page 27 Page 29
1 A. AT&T. 1 steps that the NHL took regarding the diagnosis and
2 Q. Okay. Do you use the iMessage 2 treatment of concussions?
3 capability? 3 MR. GOLDFEIN: Same objection.
4 A. I don't know what that is. 4 THE WITNESS: No.
5 Q. Do you have an iPhone? 5 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
6 A. I do. 6 Q. Do you -- with what little knowledge
7 Q. Have you ever used a BlackBerry? 7 you have about the concussion protocols, do you
8 A. No. 8 believe that those are -- were an important step
9 Q. Do you know if you've turned over all 9 for the NHL to take with respect to player safety?
10 text messages or any text messages that you had 10 A. Yes.
11 with any other owners or Commissioner Bettman 11 Q. With what knowledge you do have about
12 concerning this litigation to your counsel? 12 the concussion protocols, would you agree with me
13 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 13 that those protocols are really only meaningful if
14 question. 14 they are actually followed?
15 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 15 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
16 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 16 question.
17 Q. Okay. Your lawyers would know? 17 THE WITNESS: I think that protocols are
18 A. I believe so. 18 important to the continued safety in the
19 Q. Are you familiar with the NHL's 19 furtherance of the well-being of the players.
20 concussion protocols? 20 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
21 A. No. 21 Q. As long as they're followed, is that --
22 Q. Are you aware that the NHL has 22 wouldn't you agree with that?
23 concussion protocols? 23 A. The application would be something of a
24 A. Yes. 24 technical nature that would be outside of my sphere
25 Q. Do you know when those protocols first 25 of being able to evaluate.

612.338.3376
Page 30 Page 32
1 Q. Okay. But if the concussion protocols 1 Q. And who are those people that are put
2 are important for a player health and safety, the 2 in charge?
3 importance of those protocols depends on whether 3 A. I don't have their names.
4 they are actually followed; wouldn't you agree with 4 Q. Is Dr. Ruben Echemendia one of those
5 me? 5 people?
6 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 6 A. I've heard of him. I don't know him.
7 question. 7 Q. Is Dr. Willem Meeuwisse? I'll give you
8 THE WITNESS: If you -- you're able to make 8 the spelling later.
9 medical decisions of this type? Because I would 9 A. That's a name that's -- I've heard of,
10 say that it would take a doctor to tell me, 10 yes.
11 somebody that understood the meaning of it. 11 Q. Do you know who's involved in the
12 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 12 Concussion Working Group?
13 Q. Well, let's assume, hypothetically 13 A. I don't have a list of the names, no.
14 speaking, that the NHL has concussion protocols in 14 Q. Anybody in the Bruins organization?
15 place, a piece of paper, says these are the 15 A. I don't -- I don't know if anybody
16 protocols. Those are important for player health 16 presently is or has been.
17 and safety, correct? 17 Q. During your board of governors
18 A. Yes. 18 meetings, are you aware of any discussions that
19 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 19 took place concerning enforcement of the concussion
20 question. 20 protocols that the NHL had put in place?
21 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 21 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
22 Q. If those protocols are never seen by 22 question.
23 team doctors and trainers, are they meaningful? 23 THE WITNESS: I don't understand the
24 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 24 question.
25 question. Calls for a hypothetical. 25 MR. DAVIDSON: I'm not sure what you didn't
Page 31 Page 33
1 THE WITNESS: Yeah, it is hypothetical. 1 understand about it, so let me try again.
2 MR. DAVIDSON: It is, and I'm asking you -- 2 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
3 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to -- 3 Q. Are you aware of any discussions at any
4 MR. DAVIDSON: -- if those protocols are 4 of your board of governors meetings concerning the
5 meaningful if nobody ever sees them. 5 enforcement of the concussion protocols that were
6 THE WITNESS: It would seem like it was -- 6 first instituted in 2011?
7 it made no sense, doesn't it? 7 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
8 MR. DAVIDSON: Right, I agree. 8 question.
9 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 9 THE WITNESS: No.
10 Q. Are you aware -- have you had any 10 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
11 discussions about the concussion protocols at your 11 Q. Can you tell me what the board of
12 board of governors meetings? 12 governors did, if anything, to insure that the
13 A. I don't have a recollection of it. 13 concussion protocols were being complied with?
14 Q. You've discussed concussions at the 14 A. No.
15 board of governors meetings, correct? 15 Q. Were you aware that the referees were
16 A. To the extent that it -- it's something 16 not educated on the concussion protocols until
17 that is part of the game and that people do 17 2012?
18 concuss, I'm told, and we will talk about the fact 18 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
19 that we are handling it in -- in a medically sound 19 question.
20 basis, yes. 20 THE WITNESS: No.
21 Q. Well, how do you know that the NHL's 21 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
22 handling concussions in a medically sound basis? 22 Q. Would you agree with me that the
23 A. Same way we -- I'm inclined to say that 23 diagnosis and treatment of injuries suffered by NHL
24 the people put in charge of that are -- are 24 hockey players has changed since you came into the
25 experienced in those areas. 25 league in 1975?

612.338.3376
Page 34 Page 36
1 MR. GOLDFEIN: I -- could you read that -- 1 A. Do you want her to read it back?
2 I'm sorry, could you read that back, please. 2 Q. No. I'll just repeat the question.
3 MR. DAVIDSON: I'll just try -- I'll try it 3 Were you aware that a concussion study was
4 another way. 4 instituted in the '97-'98 season?
6 Q. Would you agree with me that since you 6 question.
7 came into the league in 1975, that the manner in 7 THE WITNESS: No.
8 which players in the NHL were diagnosed and treated 8 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
9 for injuries has changed? 9 Q. Have you ever heard about a concussion
10 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 10 study being conducted of NHL players at any point
11 question. 11 in time during your 40 years with the Bruins?
12 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 A. There have been concussion studies made
13 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 13 over the last 40 years. Those specifically with
14 Q. Because medicine has changed, right? 14 players, I don't have -- I can't say that they were
15 A. Correct. 15 specific for players.
16 Q. And, similarly, the manner in which NHL 16 Q. And when you say there's been
17 players have been diagnosed and treated for 17 concussion studies over the last 40 years, you're
18 concussions has changed since you came into the 18 talking generally; is that correct?
19 league in 1975, right? 19 A. Yes.
20 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection. Object to the 20 Q. Okay. Do you have an opinion on --
21 form of the question. 21 well, let me -- strike that for a second.
22 THE WITNESS: You're stating? 22 Has the NHL taken the issue of concussions
23 MR. DAVIDSON: I'm asking a question. 23 among its players seriously, in your opinion?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes. 24 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to -- object to the
25 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 25 form of the question.
Page 35 Page 37
1 Q. Do you know when the NHL first started 1 THE WITNESS: We're very concerned about the
2 studying the issue of concussions? 2 well-being of our players.
3 A. No. 3 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
4 Q. Are you familiar with the concussion 4 Q. Okay. Do you consider it one of your
5 study that began in 1997? 5 responsibilities as a member of the board of
6 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 6 governors to insure the health and safety of the
7 question. 7 players?
8 THE WITNESS: No. 8 A. Yes.
10 Q. I think it was the '96-'97 season. No? 10 question.
11 '97-'98? 11 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
12 MR. GOLDFEIN: I believe so. 12 Q. When, if ever, did the NHL start --
13 MR. DAVIDSON: All right. I'll trust you on 13 started taking -- start taking the issue of
14 that. 14 concussions seriously?
15 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 15 A. When it affects the health and
16 Q. Are you aware that there was a 16 well-being of our players, we take that seriously.
17 concussion study -- 17 Q. And when did -- in your opinion, when
18 A. No. 18 did the NHL first come to believe that concussions
19 Q. -- that was -- let me finish the 19 affected the health and safety of the players?
20 question real quick. 20 A. I can't -- I can't be specific. I
21 A. Well, I thought I had answered it once 21 don't know.
22 already. 22 Q. There was a period of time when the
23 Q. All right. I just want to get it right 23 issue of concussions was never discussed at the
24 for the record, because we were talking over each 24 NHL; is that right?
25 other. 25 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the

612.338.3376
Page 38 Page 40
1 question. 1 A. No.
2 THE WITNESS: I don't -- I can't say. 2 Q. Do you consider his role to be
3 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 3 important for the NHL with respect to its treatment
4 Q. You recall a period of time in your 4 of concussions and head injuries?
5 early days with the Bruins when players would get 5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object -- object to the form
6 hit hard in the head and go back out on the ice? 6 of the question. Lacking foundation.
7 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 7 THE WITNESS: I -- anything to do with the
8 question. 8 health and welfare of our players is important.
9 THE WITNESS: I -- no. 9 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
10 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 10 Q. To you individually?
11 Q. No? You don't recall that at all? 11 A. To me and to the NHL.
12 A. What you just stated, I -- I can't say 12 Q. Do you know whether Dr. Echemendia is a
13 that it happened. 13 trustworthy person?
14 Q. All right. We'll get into that a 14 A. No, I don't. Do you know him
15 little later. 15 otherwise?
16 Did the NHL, in your view, ever view the 16 Q. I don't know him personally. I figured
17 issue of concussions as a joke? 17 maybe you would.
18 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 18 A. No.
19 question. 19 Q. Do you know whether Dr. Echemendia is
20 THE WITNESS: As a joke? 20 a -- is a smart, knowledgeable person?
21 MR. DAVIDSON: Yes. 21 A. No, I do not.
22 THE WITNESS: I don't think anybody -- I 22 Q. Do you know whether Dr. Echemendia is
23 have no recollection of anybody joking about 23 knowledgeable about the issue of concussions?
24 concussions. 24 A. No, I do not.
25 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 25 Q. The NHL -- would the NHL have hired
Page 39 Page 41
1 Q. All right. Or considering it a 1 somebody who was not knowledgeable about the issue
2 laughing matter? 2 of concussions?
3 A. I think they're the same, aren't they? 3 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
4 Q. I think they are. 4 question. Lacking foundation.
5 A. Okay. 5 THE WITNESS: I have -- I don't know
6 Q. You mentioned earlier that you're -- 6 Mr. Echemendia, and everything I've ever seen the
7 you know of an individual by the name of Ruben 7 NHL do in my experience over the last 40 years has
8 Echemendia? 8 been responsible, business-like, and takes their
9 A. I said I know who he is, yeah. 9 players' safety very seriously.
10 Q. Who is he? 10 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
11 A. He's a -- he's a doctor, and I think 11 Q. So you would not expect the NHL to hire
12 he's -- neurology is his specialty. 12 somebody untrustworthy, right?
13 Q. Do you know how -- what, if any, 13 A. No.
14 involvement Mr. -- Dr. Echemendia has with the NHL? 14 Q. Are you aware that Dr. Echemendia has
15 A. I think he's been retained by the NHL 15 been the director of the NHL's neuropsychological
16 as a -- as an expert. 16 testing program?
17 Q. Do you know what he was retained as an 17 A. No.
18 expert in? 18 Q. Are you aware that Dr. Echemendia was
19 A. I think head injuries. 19 the chair of the NHL-NHLPA Concussion Working
20 Q. Okay. 20 Group?
21 A. Excuse me, correct that. Neurological 21 A. No.
22 disease. 22 The following was marked for Identification:
23 Q. Okay. Do you know what 23 EXH. 1 e-mail, with attached article
24 Dr. Echemendia's role is in relation to the NHL 24 MR. DAVIDSON: One of many exhibits.
25 concussion study or protocols? 25 BY MR. DAVIDSON:

612.338.3376
Page 42 Page 44
1 Q. Mr. Jacobs, I'm showing you what I've 1 A. No.
2 had marked as Exhibit 1 to your -- to your 2 Q. No time?
3 deposition which purports to be an e-mail from 3 A. Didn't -- didn't -- I didn't read it.
4 Julie Young to Kris King, two Ks, Gary Meagher, and 4 That's what the question is, right?
5 Julie Grand, and others on May 26, 2011. 5 Q. Yes. I'm just wondering why you didn't
6 Do you see that? 6 read it.
7 A. Yes. 7 A. Did you read it?
8 Q. Okay. Who is Julie Young? 8 Q. I have.
9 A. I don't know. 9 A. Oh, good. Why?
10 Q. Do you know who Kris King is? 10 Q. Because it was produced by --
11 A. No. 11 A. Okay.
12 Q. Do you know who Gary Meagher is? 12 Q. -- the league.
13 A. Yeah. 13 A. Okay.
14 Q. Who's Gary Meagher? 14 Q. Is the issue of concussions important
15 A. I remember when he was in hockey. I 15 to you?
16 don't -- I don't know what he's doing now. Frank 16 A. Yes.
17 Brown I know. 17 Q. Okay. So when an article in a magazine
18 Q. What about Julie Grand? 18 crosses your desk with a heading Concussions, The
19 A. Yes, Julie Grand's counsel. 19 Untold Story, Eric Lindros and other pro hockey
20 Q. Counsel for the NHL? 20 players speak for the first time about depression,
21 A. Yeah. 21 marital strife, suicidal thoughts, the devastating
22 Q. Okay. And attached to this e-mail is 22 toll of concussions, why wouldn't you read that?
23 an article from a magazine called Maclean's, 23 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
24 M-A-C-L-E-A-N-S. 24 question.
25 A. It's a Canadian, yes. 25 THE WITNESS: Why wouldn't I not read it?
Page 43 Page 45
1 Q. Are you familiar with that magazine? 1 It's a -- it's an article.
2 A. Yes, I am. 2 MR. DAVIDSON: Right.
3 Q. And there's an article dated May 30 -- 3 THE WITNESS: I don't -- I normally don't
4 30th, 2011. Do you see that? 4 read articles.
5 A. Yeah. 5 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay.
6 Q. Okay. 6 THE WITNESS: Like this.
7 A. I do. 7 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
8 Q. And the article's entitled Concussions, 8 Q. Have you ever heard about NHL players
9 the Untold Story. Do you see that? 9 who suffered concussions suffering from depression,
10 A. Yes. 10 marital strife, and suicidal thoughts?
11 Q. All right. And just for the record, 11 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
12 the entire document is Bates-stamped NHL1784464 12 question.
13 through 4470. 13 THE WITNESS: I have heard of it, yes.
14 Have you ever read this article before? 14 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
15 A. No. 15 Q. Where did you hear about it?
16 Q. Have you ever seen the article before? 16 A. I heard that it was -- that this was
17 A. I've seen the cover. 17 sometimes referred to as -- as reactions to -- to
18 Q. Do you know in what capacity you saw 18 events that they had in their -- in their career.
19 it? 19 Q. Reactions to multiple concussions?
20 A. I think it -- I think the magazine 20 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
21 passed through my desk. 21 question.
22 Q. Okay. But you didn't read it? 22 THE WITNESS: I don't -- I'm -- if there is
23 A. No. 23 a qualified person that can tell me from a medical
24 Q. Okay. Is there a reason you didn't 24 standpoint that this was an experience, I would be
25 read it? 25 more inclined to -- to listen to that.

612.338.3376
Page 46 Page 48
1 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 1 A. I don't know if he -- if he is, but
2 Q. Sure. So if you turn to the fourth 2 based on what you're saying here, I don't know.
3 page on this -- in this document, which is actually 3 Q. Who hired Dr. Echemendia? The NHL or
4 page 57 of the magazine, I think that's it right 4 the NHL and the NHLPA, do you know?
5 there -- 5 A. I don't know.
6 A. Yeah. 6 Q. Now, as an owner of the Bruins, you
7 Q. -- you see the top of the third column 7 have a financial interest in -- financial
8 starts with "Lindros says"? Do you see that? It's 8 investment in your players, correct?
9 the top of the third column on the right. 9 A. Yes.
10 A. Oh, "Lindros says," yeah. 10 Q. Okay. You would want your players on
11 Q. Okay. First paragraph -- first full 11 the Bruins to be on the ice, not on injured
12 paragraph says the following: Since Lindros 12 reserve?
13 sustained that first concussion, awareness about 13 A. Correct.
14 the injury's severity and complexity has improved, 14 Q. And as you've, I think, testified to a
15 says Ruben Echemendia, a neuropsychologist and 15 couple times, as an owner, you're also invested in
16 chair of the Concussion Working Group for the NHL 16 the players' health and well-being?
17 and the NHL Players' Association. Quote, we've 17 A. Yes.
18 gone from viewing this injury as laughable, a joke, 18 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
19 to something people are recognizing can have 19 question.
20 serious consequences. 20 MR. DAVIDSON: What was wrong with the
21 Now having -- this is the first time you've 21 question?
22 read that? 22 MR. GOLDFEIN: Invested. He never used the
23 A. Yes. 23 word invested. Go ahead.
24 Q. Okay. Do you know -- do you agree with 24 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
25 him? 25 Q. So as an owner, what takes precedence
Page 47 Page 49
1 A. I don't know -- I don't know what he 1 for you: The health and well-being the player or
2 was thinking when he said it. 2 your financial interest in seeing that they're on
3 Q. Okay. 3 the ice?
4 A. And I think I would be inclined to ask 4 A. I don't think they're separate. I
5 him what he meant by it, and I don't know if the 5 think players are -- are individuals and they're --
6 quote is accurate or not. 6 if they're not playing, then it's costly to us. If
7 Q. No, you don't, right? Let's assume for 7 they're not healthy, they're not performing well.
8 the sake of argument that that quote quoted 8 So I think they run hand in hand, that it's the way
9 Dr. Echemendia accurately. Do you know what he's 9 the business is structured.
10 referring -- he would be referring to when he says 10 Q. Was there ever a period of time during
11 that we've gone from viewing this injury as 11 your ownership of the Bruins where financial
12 laughable, a joke? 12 interest in the player took precedence over the
13 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 13 player's health and safety?
14 question. What does the "we" refer to? 14 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
15 THE WITNESS: Can -- 15 question.
16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 16 THE WITNESS: No.
17 question. 17 MR. DAVIDSON: No?
18 THE WITNESS: What do we mean by "we"? 18 THE WITNESS: No.
19 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 19 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
20 Q. Do you -- has the NHL ever viewed 20 Q. You're familiar with the term the Big
21 concussions as laughable or a joke? 21 Bad Bruins?
22 A. I've never, I personally. I can't 22 A. Yup.
23 testify to others. 23 Q. What does that refer to?
24 Q. Okay. Do you know what serious 24 A. That they're -- that they're very
25 consequences Dr. Echemendia is referring to? 25 physical, they're big players, they're strong,

612.338.3376
Page 50 Page 52
1 they're physical. 1 Q. Who's on that?
2 Q. Was there a Big Bad Bruins era, for 2 A. I'm on it.
3 lack of a better term? 3 Q. Who else?
4 A. Still is. 4 A. There's nine others.
5 Q. Still is? But there was a period of 5 Q. What does the executive committee do?
6 time in the late '60s and early '70s when -- 6 A. Normally we counsel with the
7 A. That's before me. 7 operational group, the -- we will discuss things
8 Q. That was before you? 8 with the commissioner and his staff and talk about
9 A. Yeah. 9 a series of different things operationally,
10 Q. Okay. And -- but even going through 10 financial, structural things.
11 the '70s, there was a period of time when the 11 Q. So what's the difference between the
12 Bruins were very well known for their physicality, 12 executive committee and the full board of governors
13 correct? 13 with their responsibilities?
14 A. Still are. 14 A. 20 people.
15 Q. When the issue -- strike that. 15 Q. It's a smaller group, easier to make
16 Is the issue of fighting in the NHL about 16 decisions in a smaller group?
17 money to the owners? 17 A. Correct.
18 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 18 Q. Is the -- is the executive committee
19 question. 19 authorized to act without the full board of
20 THE WITNESS: I don't understand your -- I 20 governors' approval?
21 don't understand what you're saying. 21 A. We may be authorized, but we normally
22 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 22 don't do anything that we don't take back to the
23 Q. As an owner, are you concerned that 23 full board.
24 getting rid of fighting would impact the bottom 24 Q. Okay.
25 line for your team? 25 A. In one form or another.
Page 51 Page 53
1 A. Fighting is not part of -- necessarily 1 Q. Now, each team appoints a primary
2 part of the game as the physicalness of it. 2 governor and alternate governors; is that correct?
3 It's -- sometimes people become fighting, they do 3 A. There's a -- there's a governor and
4 fight, and then they're penalized for it. But 4 then there are alternate governors.
5 you're -- it's a contact sport. 5 Q. Is there a certain number of alternates
6 Q. Well, there are a lot of contact 6 that each team is entitled to?
7 sports, aren't there? 7 A. By and large it's -- it can be two,
8 A. Yes, there are. 8 three or more.
9 Q. Are there any other contact sports in 9 Q. Okay. Have you always been the
10 which fighting is tolerated besides the NHL? 10 governor of the Bruins -- for the Bruins
11 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 11 organization since 1975?
12 question. Lacks foundation. 12 A. I think so. I think I have been.
13 THE WITNESS: I don't think the NHL 13 Q. And currently who are the alternates
14 tolerates fighting. 14 for the Bruins?
15 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 15 A. Harry Sinden, Charlie Jacobs, Cam
16 Q. Okay. We'll get to that. 16 Neely, maybe Don Sweeney. I don't know who else
17 At any point in time during your 40 years on 17 would be, but I think that's it.
18 the Bruins has the NHL tolerated fighting? 18 Q. Okay. Do you attend all board of
19 A. I don't think they tolerate fighting. 19 governors meetings?
20 Q. No time in the last 40 years? 20 A. As a rule, yes.
21 A. No time in the last 40 years that I 21 Q. Okay. Have you missed some in the
22 know of. 22 past?
23 Q. Okay. Is there an executive committee 23 A. A few, yes.
24 of the board of governors? 24 Q. In which case one of your alternates
25 A. Yes, there is. 25 would attend in your stead?

612.338.3376
Page 54 Page 56
1 A. Somebody is always there for us. 1 Q. Require.
2 Q. And have you read the NHL constitution? 2 A. I don't know if it's required, but the
3 A. No. 3 practical matter, they -- the competition committee
4 Q. Never? 4 will -- will act and make a recommendation, and we
5 A. Never. 5 will act on that.
6 Q. Have you read the collective bargaining 6 Q. But as far as you know under the
7 agreement? 7 constitution that you said you haven't read, the
8 A. No. 8 board of governors can act unilaterally if it wants
9 Q. Ever? 9 to?
10 A. Never. 10 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
11 Q. Is there a reason? 11 question.
12 A. Too much to read. 12 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
13 Q. All right. Are you familiar with the 13 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
14 duties and responsibilities of the board of 14 Q. Okay. I'm going to try to ask it a
15 governors? 15 different way.
16 A. The duties and responsibilities? 16 Is the consent of the competition committee
17 Q. As -- as delineated in the NHL 17 for a rule change required before the board of
18 constitution. 18 governors makes a rule change?
19 A. I -- I basically understand them, yes. 19 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
20 Q. Okay. Are you aware that the board of 20 question.
21 governors establishes the policies for the league? 21 THE WITNESS: I'm not -- I don't know for
22 A. I believe that to be the truth, yes. 22 sure.
23 Q. And are you aware that the board of 23 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
24 governors adopts rules for the league? 24 Q. Does the competition committee have
25 A. That's correct. 25 veto power over any rule change adopted by the
Page 55 Page 57
1 Q. Okay. There's also something known as 1 board of governors?
2 a competition committee, correct? 2 A. I don't --
3 A. Yes. 3 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
4 Q. The competition committee is made up of 4 question.
5 individuals from both the Players' Association and 5 THE WITNESS: I don't believe so. Sorry.
6 the league; is that right? 6 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
7 A. Yes. 7 Q. Does the Players' Association have veto
8 Q. And are you aware that the competition 8 power over any rule change that is adopted by the
9 committee under the NHL constitution has the 9 board of governors?
10 ability to make recommendations for rule changes? 10 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
11 A. Yes. 11 question.
12 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 12 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
13 question. 13 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
14 THE WITNESS: Yes. 14 Q. Who's Bill Daly?
15 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 15 A. He's the -- I don't know his official
16 Q. In your opinion, does the board of 16 title, but he is chief counsel, and I think he's
17 governors need the competition committee to make a 17 executive vice president.
18 recommendation before it can implement a rule 18 MR. GOLDFEIN: Deputy commissioner.
19 change? 19 THE WITNESS: Deputy commissioner.
20 A. Can you rephrase that? 20 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
21 Q. In your opinion -- well, strike that. 21 Q. Okay. You've known him for a while?
22 Does the board of governors need a 22 A. Yup.
23 recommendation from the competition committee 23 Q. You know him well?
24 before it can implement a rule change? 24 A. That's a relative term, isn't it?
25 A. When you say "need" -- 25 Q. In your opinion, do you know him well?

612.338.3376
Page 58 Page 60
1 A. Pretty well. 1 Do you see that?
2 Q. How long have you known him? 2 A. Mm-hmm.
3 A. Probably 18 years, I'd say. 3 Q. And then Mr. Daly responds -- it goes
4 Q. Do you trust his judgment? 4 on, and then above it Mr. Daly responds to
5 A. Very much, yeah. 5 Mr. Dreger: Obviously John doesn't understand how
6 Q. Do you trust Commissioner Bettman's 6 the process worked -- works, nor should he, since
7 judgment? 7 he had nothing to do with creating it. Our board
8 A. Yup. 8 can enact rule changes at any time with or without
9 Q. Have you ever caught Commissioner Daly 9 competition committee approval.
10 lying to you? 10 Do you see that? Is that a yes?
11 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 11 A. Yes.
12 question. 12 Q. Okay. And then Mr. Bettman responds to
13 THE WITNESS: No. 13 the entire e-mail from Mr. Daly, good response.
14 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 14 A. Where is that?
15 Q. Would it -- it would surprise you to -- 15 Q. At the top.
16 for Deputy Commissioner Daly to lie to you? 16 A. Oh.
17 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 17 Q. Do you see that?
18 question. 18 A. Mm-hmm.
19 THE WITNESS: Yes. 19 Q. Is that a yes?
20 The following was marked for Identification: 20 A. Yes.
21 EXH. 2 e-mail chain 21 Q. Okay.
22 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 22 A. Yes, I see it.
23 Q. I'm going to show you what I marked as 23 Q. Okay. Do you agree with Mr. Daly's
24 Exhibit 2 to your deposition, Mr. Jacobs. I'm 24 statement here?
25 showing you what has been marked Exhibit 2 to your 25 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
Page 59 Page 61
1 deposition, Mr. Jacobs. This is an e-mail chain 1 question.
2 starting with an e-mail from Darren Dreger, 2 THE WITNESS: I would refer to Mr. Daly for
3 D-R-E-G-E-R, at CTV in Canada to Mr. Daly, and 3 interpretation of this to me.
4 Mr. Daly responds to Mr. Dreger, and Mr. -- 4 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
5 Commissioner Bettman commented on that response. 5 Q. Okay. You would expect Mr. Daly would
6 Do you see that? 6 know more about --
7 A. Do I see this? 7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Yes. 8 Q. -- the legalities of --
9 A. Where? Where? This says -- this is 9 A. Yes.
10 from Bill Daly to Darren Dreger. 10 Q. -- the constitution than you would?
11 Q. Right. You see that, correct? 11 A. Absolutely.
12 A. Mm-hmm. 12 Q. Okay. Did anybody ever tell you that
13 Q. And there's a discussion, Mr. Dreger 13 the Players' Association had veto power over rules
14 says to Mr. Daly: Here's JW's response for 14 adopted by the board of governors?
15 publication. Under the CBA, the league's proposal 15 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
16 cannot take affect until it first receives the 16 question. To the extent it calls for
17 support of the joint NHLPA/NHL competition 17 attorney/client communications, you should not
18 committee, and then it is endorsed by the board of 18 answer. To the extent that it -- to the extent
19 governors. 19 that it -- you can otherwise answer the question,
20 Do you see that? 20 you can go ahead with it, but if you have to
21 A. Mm-hmm. 21 disclose any communications from an attorney to you
22 Q. And then he goes on: To date, the 22 on that subject, then you should say you can't
23 competition committee has neither agreed on a 23 answer.
24 proposal nor forwarded a proposal to the board of 24 THE WITNESS: We have an agreement with the
25 governors for its vote. 25 National Hockey League Players' Association that

612.338.3376
Page 62 Page 64
1 could affect that comment you just made. 1 A. The -- the -- in my prior answer, I
2 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 2 haven't read the CBA.
3 Q. What is that agreement? 3 Q. Right.
4 A. What is it? 4 A. And I couldn't point to anything in the
5 Q. Yes. 5 CBA that relates to this, but I would ask Mr. Daly
6 A. National Hockey League Players' 6 what we can and can't do, so I trust his judgment
7 Association agreement that we have. It's our CBA 7 in that.
8 it's called, or collective bargaining agreement. 8 Q. So if Mr. Daly says in Exhibit 2 to
9 Q. So the CBA governs the relationship 9 your deposition that the board can enact rule
10 between the competition committee and the board of 10 changes at any time with or without competition
11 governors; is that right? 11 committee approval, you would have no reason to
12 A. No, that isn't what I said. 12 dispute that?
13 Q. What -- what were you saying? 13 MR. GOLDFEIN: I'll object to the form of
14 A. I said, there's a CBA agreement which 14 the question in part because you're reading a line
15 represents the contractual relationship we have 15 out of an entire e-mail.
16 with the players. They, as a collective bargaining 16 MR. DAVIDSON: I understand.
17 group, and we as -- as the association, the 17 MR. GOLDFEIN: Which seems to contradict
18 National Hockey League, has an agreement. And that 18 what you're saying.
19 CBA which was jointly agreed upon can condition 19 MR. DAVIDSON: Mr. Goldfein, you know the
20 things such as what's referred to in here, and I 20 protocol that requires you to object as to form
21 don't know where the -- what the CBA says with 21 only.
22 regard to this. 22 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
23 Q. So whatever -- 23 question.
24 A. But we may have rights to unilaterally 24 MR. DAVIDSON: Thank you.
25 act, but we may have a contractual relationship 25 MR. GOLDFEIN: Thank you.
Page 63 Page 65
1 which may condition that. 1 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
2 Q. Okay. You're not aware of any 2 Q. So my question stands.
3 contractual condition that limits your right to act 3 A. I would trust Mr. Daly's judgment, and
4 as you sit here today? 4 where this plays a role in the process, I don't
5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 5 know.
6 question. 6
7 THE WITNESS: The whole CBA, in fact, 7
8 conditions the way we can act. 8
9 MR. DAVIDSON: My question -- 9
10 THE WITNESS: So there -- it's 10
11 cross-sectioned with conditions and circumstances. 11 Q. All right. Are you familiar with Rule
12 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 12 48?
13 Q. My question to you is: If I put the 13 A. No.
14 CBA in front of you, would you be able to point to 14 Q. Are you aware that the NHL has a rule
15 any part of it that says that the board cannot act 15 that bans, penalizes targeted hits to the head?
16 without the Players' Association or competition 16 A. Yes.
17 committee agreement on a rule change? 17 Q. Okay. If I told you that that was Rule
18 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 18 48, would you --
19 question as outside the competency of the witness 19 A. Yes.
20 and lacking foundation. 20 Q. -- would that sound familiar? Okay.
21 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 21 A. I am familiar with Rule 48.
22 Q. You can answer. 22 Q. Do you know when that went into effect?
23 A. He just said that I was incompetent, 23 A. No, I don't.
24 didn't he? 24 Q. 2010 sound familiar?
25 Q. He did. 25 A. It could have.

612.338.3376
Page 66 Page 68
1 Q. Okay. Do you know why that there's no 1 an agenda for the general managers meeting held in
2 ban on all hits to the head in the NHL? 2 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on June 2nd, 2009.
3 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 3 Do you see that?
4 question. 4 A. I read it.
5 THE WITNESS: The -- hockey, I think we all 5 Q. Okay. Do you get copies of meeting
6 agree, is a contact sport. 6 minutes of the board of governors after meetings
7 MR. DAVIDSON: Sure. 7 have taken place?
8 THE WITNESS: And it's very close checking, 8 A. Board of governors? Yeah.
9 interfering with one another, slowing the game 9 Q. So after a meeting takes place,
10 down, either speeding it up, things to that. In 10 somebody transcribes --
11 the process, when people are checked, they may from 11 A. We get minutes.
12 time to time inadvertently have contact with one's 12 Q. You get minutes. How do you get them?
13 head, heads become involved. I have one player 13 By e-mail?
14 that's six-foot-nine, six-foot-ten, and I have 14 A. I don't know. I think they -- probably
15 players that are five-foot-four. 15 it is by e-mail.
16 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 16 Q. Who sends them, do you know?
17 Q. Is that Mr. Chara? 17 A. The secretary would.
18 A. Yeah. And this five-foot-four person, 18 Q. Is there a secretary of the league?
19 he cannot hit necessarily somebody that is below 19 A. Yes.
20 the head, and to the extent that if he were to 20 Q. Who is that?
21 check somebody, which he will, he will come in 21 A. Is it Zimmer? Zimmerman, Zimmerman,
22 contact with the body of the person. 22 David, David. Do you want him to --
23 Q. So is the concern that the game will 23 Q. No. Can we switch?
24 change too much if you ban all hits to the head 24 A. Would you like that?
25 instead of just targeted hits to the head? 25 Q. I don't think I'd like his answers as
Page 67 Page 69
1 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 1 much.
2 question. Lacks -- by the way, lacks foundation. 2 A. Okay.
3 You're misstating the rule. Object to the form of 3 Q. The -- do you get -- you're aware that
4 the question. 4 general managers have meetings as well besides the
5 THE WITNESS: I don't think we have a rule 5 board of governors, right?
6 that says that, but the objective is to keep the 6 A. Yeah, yeah.
7 flow of the game going and play it as entertaining 7 Q. And do you ever get copies of the
8 as possible, and this from time to time may involve 8 minutes from those meetings?
9 a slide-by, but definition of a hit to the head and 9 A. No.
10 directed is up to the interpretation of the -- of 10 Q. Okay. Who was your general manager in
11 the officials on ice. 11 June of 2009, do you remember?
12 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 12 A. Peter Chiarelli.
13 Q. Were you aware that the NHL Players' 13 Q. Do you want to spell the last name?
14 Association wanted a zero tolerance policy for all 14 A. I don't know, S-H-A-R-E-L-L-I.
15 hits to the head before Rule 48 was enacted? 15 Q. I think it's pretty close. If you turn
16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 16 to page 2 of Exhibit 3, the second-to-last bullet
17 question. 17 at the bottom. Do you see that where it says
18 THE WITNESS: I'm not aware of it. 18 "request for hockey operations"?
19 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. 19 A. Oh, yeah.
20 The following was marked for Identification: 20 Q. Okay. It says: Request for hockey
21 EXH. 3 agenda for general managers 21 operations to continue to work with the GMs to
22 meeting, three pages 22 refine its supplemental discipline standard for
23 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 23 illegal late hits and head hits and to work with
24 Q. I'm showing you what has been marked 24 the players to educate them on this standard, but
25 Exhibit 3 to your deposition which purports to be 25 the GMs were not in favor of the targeted head hit

612.338.3376
Page 70 Page 72
1 rule proposed by the NHLPA or a zero tolerance rule 1 A. No.
2 like that enforced in the OHL. 2 Q. Is there any difference between the
3 Do you see that? 3 NHL's play of hockey and the Ontario Hockey League
4 A. Yes, I do. 4 and the International Hockey Federation in the way
5 Q. What is the OHL? 5 they play the game?
6 A. That's Ontario Hockey League. It's a 6 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
7 minor league. 7 question. It's compound.
8 Q. Is it a feeder league for NHL? 8 THE WITNESS: There -- there are the rules
9 A. All leagues that happen are considered 9 and many -- there are a lot of things that happen
10 to be feeder leagues. 10 in these other leagues which are different than
11 Q. Okay. Including -- 11 happens in the National Hockey League.
12 A. Because everybody thinks they're going 12 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
13 to become an NHL player. 13 Q. They -- would you agree with me that
14 Q. Of course. Are you aware that the -- 14 the likelihood of there being different heights of
15 that as of June 2009 the OHL had a zero tolerance 15 players exists in the -- in the OHL just like there
16 policy on all hits to the head? 16 is in the NHL?
17 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 17 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
18 question. 18 question.
19 THE WITNESS: No, I wasn't aware. 19 THE WITNESS: There are different heights of
20 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 20 players throughout all sports.
21 Q. Okay. Were you aware at any point that 21 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
22 the NHLPA -- well, strike that. 22 Q. So if the OHL can ban all head hits not
23 MR. GOLDFEIN: Move to strike the prior 23 with -- regardless of the fact that there are
24 question where counsel asked about whether the 24 different heights of players, why couldn't the NHL?
25 NHLPA -- whether the witness knew whether the NHLPA 25 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
Page 71 Page 73
1 had asked for a zero tolerance rule on head hits if 1 question.
2 this document is your support for that. 2 THE WITNESS: What we can and can't do is --
3 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. Understood. 3 is different than what we do, isn't it? And what
4 Understood. 4 we -- our game is played differently than theirs.
5 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 5 They have a number of rules that are different than
6 Q. You are -- were you aware that any 6 ours.
7 other -- any minor leagues or any other hockey 7 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
8 leagues had a zero tolerance policy for all hits to 8 Q. So what's materially different about
9 the head? 9 how the game of hockey is played in the OHL and the
10 A. No. Excuse me, I -- I think that youth 10 International Federation versus the NHL?
11 skating has got some limitation on checking and 11 A. They will experiment with time of
12 things of that type which would eliminate all hits. 12 events, in other words, the -- is it an hour or is
13 Q. Okay. So you weren't wear that the 13 it 20 minutes, the number of players that are on
14 Ontario Hockey League had banned all hits -- 14 the ice, the on-side or off-side rules. There's a
15 A. No. 15 lot of experimentation that goes on, and the other
16 Q. -- to the head since 2006? 16 thing that isn't -- this has to understand is how
17 A. No. 17 do they enforce these rules.
18 Q. You're familiar with the International 18 Q. Okay.
19 Ice Hockey Federation? 19 A. And do they.
20 A. Yes, I know of them, yes. 20 Q. So let's talk about that.
21 Q. Are they also a minor league? 21 A. And if they don't enforce them, then
22 A. They would be a lesser league, yes. 22 they're --
23 Q. They would be a lesser league? And are 23 MR. SCARBOROUGH: Counsel, please don't cut
24 you aware that they have banned all hits to the 24 the witness off. Let him complete his answer.
25 head since 2009? 25 THE WITNESS: You're upsetting me.

612.338.3376
Page 74 Page 76
1 MR. GOLDFEIN: Go ahead. Finish your 1 change by banning all head hits?
2 answer. 2 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
3 THE WITNESS: Since it was played 3 question.
4 differently, and if they don't enforce it, and if 4 THE WITNESS: What --
5 they don't -- it could be quite meaningless. 5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Which game?
6 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 6 MR. DAVIDSON: The game of hockey.

7 Q. All right. So why don't we -- so let's 7 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat what you just
8 talk about that. You said the OHL does some 8 said?
9 experimentation of rules; is that right? 9 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
10 A. That's often a spot that you do that. 10 Q. Sure. Wouldn't it be instructive to
11 The size, the goals could be different. 11 know if the game of professional ice hockey would
12 Q. So what has the -- what have you as 12 be materially changed by banning all hits to the
13 chairman of the board of governors done to look at 13 head?
14 the -- how the banning of all head hits rule in the 14 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
15 OHL has affected the game in the OHL? 15 question.
16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 16 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
17 question. 17 Q. Wouldn't you want to know that as an
18 THE WITNESS: It never got to me, that -- 18 owner and a chairman of the board of governors?
19 nobody asked me at any time with regard to this or 19 A. There is a process in which we would
20 really looked to me to make a decision on this. It 20 have this evaluated by people that are much closer
21 hasn't gotten to that point. 21 to the operation of the game, and their view and
22 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 22 their approach would be meaningful to me as to
23 Q. Wouldn't it be important to see if that 23 knowing whether this would change the game or not.
24 rule was being enforced in the OHL and how, if at 24 Q. So right now there's a distinction
25 all, the game was materially impacted? 25 between legal hits to the head and illegal hits to
Page 75 Page 77
1 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 1 the head; is that right?
2 question. 2 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
3 THE WITNESS: The document you showed me is 3 question.
4 a general managers meeting. I've never seen it. 4 THE WITNESS: There -- there is the
5 The general managers have a process for which they 5 difference between a illegal hit to the head which
6 look at this and evaluate it, and if they thought 6 is pretty clearly defined, I think, and -- and
7 it was of such a condition, they would bring it 7 casual hits, which are -- are not directed, that
8 forward, if there was agreement on how this should 8 are incidental to the head. I don't think there is
9 go forward. It seems like it was something that 9 a legal hit to the head.
10 was proposed at one point or it referred to. 10 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
11 Whether it came to any material point, I don't 11 Q. So in -- is it the -- the board of
12 know. 12 governors' view that it's okay for a player's head
13 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 13 to be injured so long as it wasn't done
14 Q. Are you aware of any member of the 14 intentionally?
15 board of governors ever asking to see how the all 15 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
16 head hit ban rule in the OHL was working? 16 question. Mischaracterizes his testimony, if that
17 A. No. 17 was your intent to.
18 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 18 THE WITNESS: I don't think that the board
19 question. 19 of governors have said it's okay to have somebody
20 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 20 hurt in the game, no, it's not.
21 Q. I think you said no, but I wasn't 21 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
22 positive. 22 Q. So what is the board of governors doing
23 A. No. 23 to protect players' heads from unintentional hits?
24 Q. Okay. Do you think it would be 24 A. We're closely monitoring whether or not
25 instructive to know if the game would materially 25 those had been legal hits, or what you refer to as

612.338.3376
Page 78 Page 80
1 legal hits. If they're incidental, we're not doing 1 A. Based on the fact that I don't think
2 anything for an incidental hit. 2 it's enforced.
3 Q. Regardless of how that will impact the 3 Q. And where do you get that information
4 health and well-being of the player; is that right? 4 from?
5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 5 A. Third parties, the same way that --
6 question. 6 Q. What third parties have told you that
7 THE WITNESS: The game of hockey is a 7 it's not enforced?
8 physical game. It's a contact game. There's 8 A. I -- just the familiarization of it,
9 contact made throughout one's body, and there are 9 that people referred to it before.
10 people that have been injured that don't involve 10 Q. Who?
11 the head. There was a long time for us to just get 11 A. I -- I can't recall.
12 helmets on players because of the players objecting 12 Q. Okay.
13 to it interfering with it. 13 A. I mean, you're the one that tells me
14 I don't think it's our desire to change the 14 that they are enforcing it. Who told you that? I
15 game so that it loses its interest to the players 15 guess it's the same question, isn't it? I know I'm
16 and loses its interest to the people that watch the 16 testifying, you're not.
17 game, so we -- it's -- our objective is to deliver 17 Q. I'm asking the questions, right?
18 a product that is safe for them, an environment 18 A. Yeah, I know.
19 that is as safe as possible. 19 Q. Board of governors could ban all head
20 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 20 hits if it wanted to, can't it?
21 Q. You would agree with me, would you not, 21 A. I don't think it can necessarily. I
22 that banning all head hits would be more safe than 22 think under our agreement with the players it
23 just banning intentional head hits? 23 wouldn't be unilateral.
24 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 24 Q. Well, Mr. Daly is saying in Exhibit 3
25 question. 25 that they can.
Page 79 Page 81
1 THE WITNESS: I can't agree or disagree. 1 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form.
3 Q. You can't agree or disagree with 3 Q. So tell me what's right. Is Mr. Daly
4 whether banning all hits to the head is safer than 4 right or are you right?
5 just banning intentional hits to the head? 5 A. I don't know. I don't know.
6 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 6 Q. Okay.
7 question. Asked and answered. 7 A. I think that customary up to now has
8 THE WITNESS: I think I've answered, haven't 8 been to work together.
9 I? I don't know what the alternative is at this 9 Q. Were you involved at all in the
10 point. To avoid all contact? 10 formation of the Concussion Working Group?
11 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 11 A. No.
12 Q. Well, other leagues have -- 12 Q. Was it something that the board of
13 A. No, you're testifying now to it. 13 governors approved or had to approve?
14 Q. No, I'm not. I'm telling you that the 14 A. Not necessarily, no.
15 OHL has banned all hits to the head since 2006. 15 Q. How did it get formed?
16 A. You're testifying. 16 A. It was formed probably in the general
17 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 17 managers area, it probably came up. What has
18 question. Lacking foundation. 18 normally been the course is that if you -- you talk
19 THE WITNESS: I don't believe that's what 19 to your medical people within your area, and they
20 happened. That's what it says here. 20 will volunteer to participate in -- in the
21 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 21 concussion group, and then they'll start -- get
22 Q. Okay. You don't believe that the OHL 22 more definition to it, but it usually comes up
23 bans all hits to the head? 23 through the people that understand it more than
24 A. That's correct. 24 others.
25 Q. And what do you base that on? 25 Q. Do you know the reason why the

612.338.3376
Page 82 Page 84
1 Concussion Working Group was formed? 1 (A recess was then taken.)
2 A. It is a subpart of the physical part. 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record. The
3 You know, if it's an orthopedic or head, each one 3 time is 10:21.
4 would take on a specialty interest. You try and 4 The following was marked for Identification:
5 get the most defined people that are most 5 EXH. 4 e-mails, three pages
6 sophisticated in that area to participate in it. 6 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
7 Q. Do they have -- does the NHL have a 7 Q. All right. Mr. Jacobs, just kind of
8 broken leg working group? 8 heading back to one -- the issue of head hits
9 A. I think they do have an orthopedic area 9 briefly, I'm going to show you what I've been
10 where you look for the strongest orthopedic people. 10 marked as Exhibit 4 to your deposition which
11 We would have -- we would have on hand, example, at 11 purports to be an e-mail from Commissioner Bettman
12 a Bruins game, somebody that's orthopedic, somebody 12 to you on May 7th, 2013, cc.ing Brendan Shanahan.
13 that's neurological. We would have both. We would 13 Do you see that?
14 have dentistry. These are things that happen. 14 A. Do I see it?
15 Sometimes you look for eye specialty. 15 Q. Yes. Do you recognize this?
16 Q. And I understand that, and I understand 16 A. The top part?
17 that Bruins and other teams will have physicians on 17 Q. Yes.
18 hand at games. My question is about the formation 18 A. I don't remember it.
19 of a specific working group between the NHL and the 19 Q. And the subject line is forward,
20 NHLPA. 20 playoff game 143 Boston at Toronto, Milan Lucic,
21 Are there any other working groups that 21 L-U-C-I-C, on Joffrey --
22 you're aware of besides the Concussion Working 22 A. Lupul.
23 Group? 23 Q. -- Lupul, L-U-P-U-L. Do you remember
24 A. No, I'm not familiar with any. 24 an incident involving the two of those players?
25 Q. Do you know why the Concussion Working 25 A. No.
Page 83 Page 85
1 Group was formed? 1 Q. Okay. Milan Lucic was a player of
2 A. No. 2 Bruins?
3 Q. Did you ever ask anybody why it was 3 A. Right.
4 formed? 4 Q. No longer?
5 A. No. 5 A. He was traded this year.
6 Q. Why do you think it was formed? 6 Q. That's what I thought. Tough guy?
7 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 7 A. Physical.
8 question as calling for speculation in light of his 8 Q. Got into a bunch of fights?
9 testimony. 9 A. He was -- he did fight. Got penalized
10 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 10 a lot.
11 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 11 Q. Did he ever get suspended for those
12 Q. You have no idea why the Concussion 12 fights?
13 Working Group was formed? 13 A. Yes, he did. He got a suspension. I
14 A. No. 14 don't know if it was for a fight, but he got
15 Q. Was there anything going on in the 15 suspended.
16 mid-'90s or anything being discussed at the board 16 Q. You just don't know what it was for?
17 of governors meetings in the mid-'90s regarding 17 A. I think it was a hit of some type.
18 concussions? 18 Q. So according to this e-mail from
19 A. I don't recall what happened 20 years 19 Commissioner Bettman to you, it says: And finally,
20 ago. 20 please see link below. Happy to chat after I land.
21 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. Could we take a quick 21 Brendan will give you -- give Cam a call. There
22 break? 22 are nuance differences to all of these hits, and
23 MR. GOLDFEIN: Sure. 23 unless we are going to make a dramatic rule change,
24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. 24 then in parentheses, e.g., no head contact under
25 The time is 10:04. 25 any circumstances, we are going to have to live

612.338.3376
Page 86 Page 88
1 with these distinctions. 1 NHL, it was a different playing style than it is
2 Do you see that? 2 today?
3 A. Yes, I do. 3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Do you remember this e-mail 4 Q. And injuries were treated differently
5 conversation with Commissioner Bettman at all? 5 back then as well?
6 A. No. 6 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
7 Q. Do you remember speaking with 7 question.
8 Commissioner Bettman at any time regarding the 8 THE WITNESS: They were consistent with the
9 distinction between intentional head hits and 9 medical knowledge at that time.
10 inadvertent hits to the head? 10 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
11 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 11 Q. Have you ever heard the phrase old-time
12 question. 12 hockey?
13 THE WITNESS: I don't -- I don't have 13 A. Yes.
14 recollection of this conversation to say any -- 14 Q. And what does that mean to you?
15 it's a little too broad. 15 A. It means -- it means that they played
16 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 16 it differently back then.
17 Q. Does the NHL live with the distinction 17 Q. All right. And I know there's -- I'm
18 between different types of head contact? 18 not aware of any specific delineated time frame,
19 A. Yes. 19 but in your mind, when did old-time hockey take
20 Q. And why does it do so? 20 place?
22 question. 22 question.
23 THE WITNESS: There are instances where 23 THE WITNESS: In old time. That was a
24 casual contact in the course of the game may come 24 number of -- back in the '50s, '40s, '50s, in that
25 into play, so if you touch somebody, it is not 25 time. There was a lot of --
Page 87 Page 89
1 considered to be a penalty or -- 1 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
2 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 2 Q. What about when you first came on in
3 Q. Do you believe that if all head hits 3 1975?
4 were banned by the NHL or penalized by the NHL that 4 A. It was -- it was old -- there was
5 players would be able to modify their playing style 5 hockey back then that was played a little
6 to be able to -- to accommodate for that rule 6 differently.
7 change? 7 Q. Okay. And how was it played
8 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 8 differently?
9 question. 9 A. Well, back then during the -- in
10 THE WITNESS: I don't have an opinion on 10 between the periods, the players would be smoking
11 that. 11 in the locker room.
12 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 12 Q. No kidding.
13 Q. Any reason to believe that players 13 A. Yes. They'd be drinking beer in the
14 could not modify their playing style to accommodate 14 locker room or on the bus. Those things don't
15 a rule change that banned all head hits? 15 exist right now.
16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 16 Q. No, to be a fly on the wall back then.
17 question. 17 A. Some of the rinks were shorter.
18 THE WITNESS: I don't have any -- I don't 18 Buffalo was shorter. Boston was shorter. Smaller
19 have an opinion on that. 19 size rink. We had different lines that would --
20 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 20 you know, the passing was different, things like
21 Q. Any studies ever been done by the NHL 21 that. So it all evolved from -- from that level to
22 board of governors to answer that question? 22 where it is now.
23 A. I don't know. 23 Q. And back then, back in the -- in
24 Q. Would it be -- strike that. 24 the '70s, did you ever hear the term -- the phrase
25 So back in 1975 when you first joined the 25 getting your bell rung?

612.338.3376
Page 90 Page 92
1 A. I've heard it as recent as now. I 1 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
2 mean, it's not -- that's not necessarily an 2 question.
3 old-time comment. 3 THE WITNESS: Yes.
4 Q. And what does that refer to? 4 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
5 A. Usually getting a head hit. 5 Q. And you're aware that back in the '70s
6 Q. Okay. But how -- somebody getting 6 when a player got hit in the head and felt a little
7 their head hit now is treated differently than 7 woozy, sometimes they were given smelling salts?
8 somebody getting their head hit and their bell rung 8 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
9 back in the '70s? 9 question.
10 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 10 THE WITNESS: I don't know that.
12 THE WITNESS: I think based on the science 12 Q. Okay. If a player got hit in the head
13 that existed then and the science that exists today 13 back in 1975 and felt woozy, what treatment were
14 that we are treating -- treating people physically 14 they given, are you aware?
15 differently. 15 A. I don't know.
17 Q. And to kind of go back to my question, 17 question.
18 somebody gets their bell rung today, they're 18 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
19 treated differently than somebody who got their 19 Q. Do you know if any of those players
20 bell rung in 1975, right? 20 back in 1975 saw a neurologist after they got hit
21 A. I think I've answered it. 21 in the head?
22 Q. Is the answer -- it calls for a 22 A. I don't know.
23 yes-or-no answer. 23 Q. Who's Brian Burke?
24 A. It's not a yes-or-no. 24 A. Brian Burke is -- I think he's COO or
25 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form -- object 25 CEO for Calgary.
Page 91 Page 93
1 to the form of the question. It was asked and 1 Q. Very knowledgeable about hockey?
2 answered. He answered the question. 2 A. I think so.
3 MR. DAVIDSON: I'm still asking for an 3 Q. Played for many years?
4 answer. 4 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
5 THE WITNESS: I believe that the science 5 question.
6 that existed there, they were treated with the 6 THE WITNESS: I don't know who he played for
7 science that existed then, and we're treating it 7 or if he ever played.
8 with the science that exists today. 8 The following was marked for Identification:
9 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 9 EXH. 5 e-mail, six pages
10 Q. Okay. I'm not asking how -- what the 10 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
11 science was back then. 11 Q. I'm showing you what has been marked
12 A. It is different. 12 Exhibit 5 to your deposition, Mr. Jacobs. It's an
13 Q. Okay. A player was treated differently 13 e-mail from Gary Meagher to Bill Daly, Julie Grand,
14 when they got their bell rung in 1975 than when 14 and Kris King with a Boston Globe story in the body
15 they got their bell rung yesterday on the ice, 15 of the e-mail called A Head-Scratcher For NHL.
16 right? 16 Do you see that?
17 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 17 A. I'm looking at it. Yeah, I'm just
18 question. Asked and answered. 18 trying to read the top part of it right now. A
19 THE WITNESS: I think I answered it. 19 head-scratcher, yeah.
20 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 20 Q. Did you ever read this article before?
21 Q. How were concussions diagnosed back in 21 A. No.
22 1975? 22 Q. According to the article, it says:
23 A. I don't know. 23 Brian Burke remembers how hockey dealt with
24 Q. Back in 1975, a player could get hit in 24 concussions when he was playing in the minors in
25 the head and miss one shift, correct? 25 the late '70s. Quote, coming back to the bench

612.338.3376
Page 94 Page 96
1 after you got your bell rung, you puked, you missed 1 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
2 one shift, you waited until the cobwebs cleared, 2 Q. Okay. So if a former player testified
3 and the trainer gave you one of those little 3 that that is precisely how they were treated back
4 ammonia sniffers, says the Maple Leafs 4 in the late '70s when they got their bell rung,
5 president/general manager, and you went back out. 5 would you have any reason to dispute that?
6 Do you see that? 6 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
7 A. Yes. 7 question. Lacks foundation.
8 MR. GOLDFEIN: Is the question "do you see 8 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
9 that"? 9 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
10 MR. DAVIDSON: Yeah, that was the question. 10 Q. If a player testified that that's how
11 MR. GOLDFEIN: I object to the question. 11 they were treated back in the late '70s after they
12 Move to strike. 12 got their bell rung, do you know whether that was
13 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 13 proper medical treatment?
14 Q. Okay. Was this how NHL players were 14 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
15 treated back in the 19 -- late 1970s when you were 15 question.
16 the owner of the Boston Bruins? 16 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't know.
18 question. 18 Q. You're not a doctor, right?
19 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 19 A. That's correct.
20 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 20 Q. Who is Brendan Shanahan? We've talked
21 Q. Okay. Players would have a better 21 about him a little, but who is Brendan Shanahan?
22 recollection of how they were treated back in 22 A. Brendan Shanahan is now the head of --
23 the -- back when they played than -- than you as 23 of the Maple Leafs.
24 the owner, correct? 24 Q. Also, prior to that, he was -- what was
25 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the -- object to 25 his role?
Page 95 Page 97
1 the form of the question. 1 A. Prior to being head of the Maple Leafs
2 THE WITNESS: No, I -- what I said is I 2 he was -- he was in the league, and I think player
3 don't know. 3 discipline I think it was.
4 MR. DAVIDSON: Right. 4 Q. And prior to being an officer of the
5 THE WITNESS: So not just the players, but 5 league?
6 the professional staff there would have known how 6 A. He was a player.
7 they treated it. I think if we went with that, 7 Q. He was a player. And do you know how
8 that would be more indicative. 8 many years he played?
9 MR. DAVIDSON: Sure. 9 A. More than one.
10 THE WITNESS: I'm not the person to ask that 10 Q. All right. He would know better than
11 question to. 11 you how players were treated when they got their
12 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 12 bell rung or got injured?
13 Q. Gotcha. And I think that's a good -- 13 A. He would know how he was treated.
14 that's a good point, is that the players and the 14 Q. Okay. He would know how his -- his
15 medical staff and trainers would know better how 15 teammates were treated as well, would he not?
16 the players were treated when they got their bell 16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
17 rung back when they played; is that right? 17 question.
18 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 18 THE WITNESS: I can't testify for him.
19 question. 19 The following was marked for Identification:
20 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 20 EXH. 6 e-mails, two pages
21 Q. Is that a yes? 21 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
22 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 22 Q. Okay. I'm showing you what I've marked
23 question. 23 as Exhibit 6 to your deposition which purports to
24 THE WITNESS: They would know better than 24 be at the top an e-mail from Brendan Shanahan to
25 me, because I don't know. 25 Mathieu, M-A-T-H-I-E-U, Schneider?

612.338.3376
Page 98 Page 100

1 A. Mathiew Schneider. 1 to the complications of head injuries.
2 Q. And Rob Blake. Do you know who Mathiew 2 Q. And you said -- I think you said it was
3 Schneider is? 3 your brother who's a neurologist?
4 A. Yes. 4 A. My brother was, yeah, chairman of
5 Q. Who is that? 5 neurology.
6 A. He's with the PA. 6 Q. Whereabouts?
7 Q. And Rob Blake, do you know who that is? 7 A. University.
8 A. Rob Blake is -- is an ex-hockey player. 8 Q. I'm sorry, where?
9 I don't know what he's doing right now. Is he with 9 A. UB.
10 the Players' Association? I don't know. 10 Q. At the University of Buffalo?
11 Q. As an aside, do you know what 11 A. Yeah.
12 Mr. Shanahan's views on fighting are? 12
13 A. No, I don't. You get a chance to ask 13
14 him. 14
15 Q. So according to this e-mail from 15 A. Yeah. He was chairman of neurology at
16 Mr. Shanahan on December 28th, 2011, he says in the 16 the University, and his claim to fame was he was
17 second paragraph, first -- second sentence: Gone 17 the -- discovered the use of interferon for
18 are the days you sat on the bench and barked at 18 multiple sclerosis.
19 the -- and barked at the trainer that you were fine 19
20 and went right back on the ice. The quiet room was 20 A. Yeah.
21 ridiculed by the media, but the reality is that 21 Q. Did you ever speak with your brother
22 it's catching/identifying more of these players 22 about the issue of concussions suffered by NHL
23 that, as we used to say, quotes, got my bell rung. 23 hockey players?
24 Do you have any reason to dispute that 24 A. No, not particularly, not specifically
25 those -- that's how players were treated back in 25 about hockey players, no.
Page 99 Page 101

1 the days, if Mr. Shanahan says that? 1 Q. So when the -- the issue of concussions
2 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 2 was brought up at several board of governors
3 question. 3 meetings, correct?
4 THE WITNESS: Mr. Shanahan -- let me get 4 A. Concussions?
5 this right. Gone are the days you sat on the bench 5 Q. Yes.
6 and barked at the trainer that you were fine and 6 A. I think head injuries may be a better
7 went right back out onto the ice. 7 way. I don't know specifically about concussions.
8 MR. DAVIDSON: Right. 8 Q. So if board of governor meeting minutes
9 THE WITNESS: So the players were saying 9 referenced repeated references to concussions --
10 they were okay and they went back out. The quiet 10 A. It doesn't ring a bell, but it may well
11 room was ridiculed by the media, but the reality is 11 have happened.
12 that it's catching. So he's saying that -- well, 12 Q. I'm sorry to ask this question, but
13 third parties ridicule that it, in fact, is serving 13 when did your brother pass away?
14 a useful purpose. 14 A. '61 -- no, excuse me. 2001, 2001.
15 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. 15 Q. Okay. So when the board of governors
16 THE WITNESS: I have no reason to disagree 16 and the Players' Association instituted a
17 with that statement. 17 concussion study back in 1997, did you have any
18 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 18 occasion to speak with your brother, the
19 Q. Okay. Do you feel like you know -- do 19 neurologist, about his views on that?
20 you have -- you personally have better knowledge 20 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
21 about concussions than you did, say, 20 years ago, 21 question.
22 you personally? 22 THE WITNESS: I have no recollection of
23 A. I -- I've -- I know I don't know much 23 that.
24 about it. I do -- because of -- of my family's 24 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
25 interest in neurology, I probably am exposed more 25 Q. Okay. Do you have any recollection of

612.338.3376
Page 102 Page 104

1 speaking with your brother about concussions 1 helmets that didn't have that, and they said, if I
2 generally? 2 didn't wear that helmet, I would have had it.
3 A. Yes. 3 Q. Do you -- sorry. Do you know what a
4 Q. And what did -- in what circumstances? 4 concussion is?
5 A. This was more with horses and riding. 5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. 6 Q. Do you know what mild traumatic brain
7 A. Head gear and the use of protective 7 injury is?
8 head gear. It didn't -- I'm volunteering right 8 A. MTI, no.
9 now, but you realize when -- in '75, they didn't 9 Q. Do you know the biomechanical causes of
10 use any head gear in the league. There was no 10 concussions?
11 helmets in the league in that time. 11 A. No. Do you?
12 Q. In the NHL? 12 Q. I have some knowledge.
13 A. Yeah. 13 A. Okay.
14 Q. Right. 14 Q. Do you know whether the helmets that
15 A. And then in attempt by ownership to -- 15 hockey players have been wearing since 1979 are
16 to make it mandatory, we had -- there was a great 16 designed to prevent the forces that cause
17 deal of player resistance to it, so -- and that -- 17 concussions?
18 we had a long time getting it implemented. 18 A. They're designed to be protective head
19 Q. The helmets that were used by the 19 gear, and since '79 to now, I think you will see
20 players back in 1979, right, that was the first 20 that they've changed. There's been a graduation,
21 year when helmets were mandatory? 21 an improvement of it. It's --
22 A. They weren't -- well -- 22 Q. Are you aware of any studies ever done
23 Q. For new players? 23 on the helmets that hockey players have worn at any
24 A. New players. It took a very long time 24 time in the NHL that say that the helmets being
25 before -- before helmets were put in, yeah. 25 worn will prevent concussions?
Page 103 Page 105

1 Q. Did the helmets that were worn back in 1 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
2 1979 prevent concussions? 2 question.
3 A. I don't know if helmets today 3 THE WITNESS: I can't speak specifically
4 necessarily, you know, under certain circumstances 4 to -- to that. No, I don't.
5 do it, but they -- there's -- there is a qualifying 5 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
6 body that says that that is -- a helmet works and 6 Q. Do you know whether players in the
7 other ones say it doesn't work, so they are 7 1970s and '80s in the NHL were pressured to fight?
8 qualifying them in different sports, all sports 8 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
9 that use helmets. 9 question.
10 Q. And we're going to get into this in a 10 THE WITNESS: I don't understand what you
11 little bit later, but in your -- based on your 11 mean.
12 knowledge, do you believe that the helmets that 12 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
13 have been worn by NHL players at any time were 13 Q. Were they -- were they forced by --
14 designed to prevent concussions? 14 were players in the 1970s and '80s in the NHL told
15 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 15 by their coaches that they had to fight?
16 question. 16 A. I don't know if anyone has been. I
17 THE WITNESS: I think it does. 17 don't know that.
18 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 18 Q. You don't know that. Who's Colin
19 Q. Okay. And you have that knowledge from 19 Campbell?
20 where? 20 A. Colin Campbell.
21 A. From knowing that under certain 21 Q. Colin Campbell.
22 circumstances various -- various helmets have been 22 A. Colin Campbell works for the league.
23 used as protective head gear, and I've watched 23 Q. And what's his position with the
24 people have -- have bad outcomes from head -- from 24 league?
25 falls on their head and for other ones that wore 25 A. Varying capacities. I don't know what

612.338.3376
Page 106 Page 108

1 he is doing right now. It changed recently, so I'm 1 A. I don't watch TSN.
2 not certain. 2 Q. At the top Mr. Campbell sends an e-mail
3 Q. Do you have any -- do you have any 3 to Mr. McKenzie, and at the -- I'm going to read
4 views of Colin Campbell? 4 the last sentence of the top e-mail. It says:
6 question. 6
7 THE WITNESS: What do you mean by views? 7
8 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 8 Do you know who Cooke is that he's referring
9 Q. Do you have an opinion of him as a 9 to in this e-mail?
10 person? 10 A. He's a player.
11 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 11 Q. Do you know a player by the name of
12 question. 12 Matt Cooke?
13 THE WITNESS: He's a very pleasant 13 A. I've heard of him, I think. I don't
14 individual. 14 think he ever played for me.
15 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 15 Q. No. He played for the Penguins.
16 Q. Okay. Knowledgeable about hockey? 16 A. This may be for you.
17 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 17 Q. It's my mom.
18 question. 18 A. It is. He's busy.
19 THE WITNESS: I think so. He spent a 19
20 lifetime in it. 20
22 Q. What do -- what's your knowledge of 22
23 Mr. Campbell's lifetime in hockey? 23
24 A. He's -- I think he was a player, and he 24
25 went from becoming a player into management to 25 Q. What does fighting mean to you?
Page 107 Page 109

1 being a coach. 1 A. It could be being aggressive in a
2 Q. Would you say that he has more 2 situation where pushing for position or moving
3 knowledge about how NHL hockey has been played than 3 over, things like that, take -- in front of the
4 you do? 4 goal, pushing somebody out of the way. You
5 A. Yes. 5 fight -- you fight for a position.
6 The following was marked for Identification: 6 Q. So that's what you think he's referring
7 EXH. 7 e-mail string 7 to in this when he talks to fight, about the word
8 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 8 fight?
9 Q. I show you what I'll have marked as 9 A. I don't know what he's referring to.
10 Exhibit 7 to your deposition. It's an e-mail on -- 10 Q. Okay. When you think of the word
11 e-mail string from January 12th, 2009, between 11 fight, do you think about jockeying for position?
12 Mr. Campbell and an individual by the name of Bob 12 A. Yeah, I do.
13 McKenzie. Who's Bob McKenzie? 13 Q. Okay.
14 A. I don't know. 14 A. He can fight for that position. Have
15 Q. You've never heard of Mr. McKenzie? 15 you heard that term?
16 A. That's a pretty common name. 16 Q. I have.
17 Q. If I told you that Mr. McKenzie worked 17 A. Yeah.
18 for TSN -- 18 Q. But in --
19 A. Oh. 19 A. In this term here.
20 Q. -- would that ring a bell? 20 Q. It could also mean fighting with
21 A. No. Where's TSN, do you know? It's 21 bare-knuckled fists, right?
22 Canada. Do you watch Canadian TV? 22 A. Could be, could be.
23 Q. Not in Florida. 23 Q. But if Mr. Campbell said that
24 A. You should see it there. It is -- 24 bare-knuckled fist fighting, there was pressure to
25 Q. I thought it was in Buffalo. CBC -- 25 participate in that in the '70s and '80s, would you

612.338.3376
Page 110 Page 112

1 have any reason to dispute that? 1
2 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form. Object 2
3 to the form of the question. 3
4 THE WITNESS: Let's ask him what he was 4
5 talking about. 5
6 MR. DAVIDSON: All right. Why don't we see, 6
7 check another e-mail and see what he says. 7
8 THE WITNESS: Sure, sure. Could be 8
9 exciting. 9
10 MR. DAVIDSON: The whole process is 10
11 exciting. 11
12 The following was marked for Identification: 12
13 EXH. 8 e-mail string 13 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
14 MR. GOLDFEIN: I guess I'm the only one not 14 Q. Neither have I, but going back to the
15 excited. 15 issue of fighting, does this e-mail refer to
16 THE WITNESS: You're objecting. You should 16 fighting for position in front of the goal?
17 listen more. 17 A. I don't know what it does.
18 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 18 Q. It talks about punches.
19 Q. Exhibit 8 to your deposition, 19 A. I think I would -- I'd strongly suggest
20 Mr. Jacobs, is, surprise, surprise, another e-mail 20 you ask Mr. Campbell what he was talking about.
21 string between Mr. Campbell and Mr. McKenzie. This 21 Q. We will, but this talks about sucker
22 one, a string from December 6, 2009, through 22 punches and punching, correct?
23 December 7th, 2009, and in the middle, the 8:37 23 A. I don't know what they're talking
24 a.m. Monday, December 7th, 2009, e-mail from 24 about, I really don't. I do know what punches are,
25 Mr. Campbell to Mr. McKenzie. He says: Hey, one 25 but I don't know if that's what he's saying here.
Page 111 Page 113

1 point that was made throughout the debate on 1 I know you want me to say I understand. I'm going
2 fighting, the difference in today's game as opposed 2 to continue to tell you I don't know what they're
3 to, quote/unquote, yesteryear is you do not, all 3 talking about. Ask them.
4 caps, have to fight if you don't want to. 4 Q. Okay. So if Mr. Campbell testified
5 Do you believe that this e-mail refers to 5 that --
6 fighting for position? 6 A. That was his --
7 A. I -- can I read it? 7 Q. -- yesteryear you had to fight, you
8 Q. Sure. 8 didn't have a choice, you would have no reason to
9 9 dispute that?
10 10 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection to the form of the
11 11 question.
12 12 THE WITNESS: I would have nothing -- no
13 13 reason to dispute what Mr. Campbell says about his
14 14 experience and his interpretation of what he said.
16 16 Q. Did you ever talk with Mr. Campbell
17 17 about his days when he played in the leagues --
18 18 league in the '70s and '80s?
19 19 A. Yes.
20 20 Q. Did he tell you -- did you talk to him
21 21 about fighting in the league during those --
22 22 A. Mr. Campbell was a hard-playing
23 23 individual, and he was very -- he was a physical
24 24 player. That he was a fighter, I would never have
25 25 thought of him as being somebody that went out of

612.338.3376
Page 114 Page 116

1 his way to get in a fight with somebody. 1 THE WITNESS: But do you know how it got
2 Q. Have you talked to Mr. Campbell about 2 changed?
3 his current position on fighting in the NHL? 3 MR. DAVIDSON: I wouldn't -- I'm asking the
4 A. No. 4 questions. If you want to tell me, go ahead.
5 Q. Have you talked to Mr. Bettman about 5 THE WITNESS: I believe that rule went
6 his position about fighting in the NHL? 6 through competition committee and was changed in
7 A. We've spoken from time to time about 7 competition committee.
8 fighting in the NHL. 8 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. Are you aware that --
9 Q. What's Mr. -- what have you spoken 9 THE WITNESS: Which is made up of the
10 about? 10 players.
11 A. He's not for fighting, per se, 11 MR. DAVIDSON: I understand that.
12 physical -- punching or things of that type, but it 12 THE WITNESS: You understand the
13 depends on your description of fighting. As I say, 13 constitution of it, the constitution of the
14 fighting for position or things of that type. 14 committee, okay.
15 Q. Let's talk about bare-knuckle fist 15 MR. DAVIDSON: Yes. Are you aware that --
16 fighting. 16 THE WITNESS: I think they are better
17 A. He's not in favor of it. 17 equipped than I am to -- to determine what -- the
18 Q. So why not penalize it more? 18 way it should be handled and the way it should be
19 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 19 penalized.
21 THE WITNESS: The presumption is that it's 21 Q. Are you aware that the incidences of
22 not penalized adequately is what you're saying. 22 fighting increased after the penalty was reduced
23 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 23 for the instigator rule?
24 Q. I didn't say that. I'm saying -- 24 A. No, I'm not.
25 A. Why not penalize it more. 25 Q. Who is Mike Murphy?
Page 115 Page 117

1 Q. Correct. 1 A. Mike Murphy worked for the league. I
2 A. I think it's adequately handled right 2 don't know what he's doing now.
3 now in the present rules. 3 Q. What role did he have in the league?
4 Q. There would be less fighting if players 4 A. I don't recall.
5 got harsher penalties; would you agree with that? 5 Q. He was the vice president of hockey
6 A. Not necessarily. 6 operations at the NHL, was he not?
7 Q. No? 7 A. I don't know if that was his title.
8 A. No. 8 Q. It may have been?
9 Q. Are you familiar with the instigator 9 A. Could have been.
10 rule? 10 Q. He was also a coach at one point?
11 A. Yes, I am. 11 A. Could have been.
12 Q. Are you aware that the instigator rule 12 Q. He was a player in the '70s and '80s
13 originally as drafted had a game misconduct 13 like Mr. Campbell?
14 penalty? 14 A. Could have been.
15 A. No. 15 Q. If he played in the '70s and '80s,
16 Q. No? Are you aware that the instigator 16 presumably he would have more knowledge about you
17 rule game misconduct penalty caused a reduction in 17 as to how players were treated for injuries back
18 fighting when that rule was instituted? 18 then?
19 A. And you say -- no, I did not. 19 A. Correct.
20 Q. Are you aware that the game misconduct 20 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
21 for the instigator rule was subsequently reduced to 21 question.
22 a -- it was a ten-minute major? 22 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
23 A. No, I am not aware. 23 Q. And he would have more knowledge about
24 MR. GOLDFEIN: I'm going to object to the 24 you as to --
25 form of the question. You can answer. 25 A. Now, hold it.

612.338.3376
Page 118 Page 120

1 Q. Sure. 1 question.
2 A. Restate what you just said. 2 THE WITNESS: May have. I did not --
3 MR. DAVIDSON: She'll have to do it. 3 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
4 THE WITNESS: Yeah, would you restate what 4 Q. You weren't there, though, right?
5 he just said? 5 A. No. I wasn't on the ice.
6 (The above-requested question was then read 6 Q. When you came into the league in 1975,
7 by the reporter.) 7 Mr. Jacobs, what did the NHL do to protect players
8 THE WITNESS: Okay. I don't know if he has 8 from concussions?
9 any knowledge about me. I don't think you really 9 A. They really didn't do very much insofar
10 meant to say that, but maybe you did. 10 as protective head gear was concerned, I can tell
11 MR. DAVIDSON: No, I didn't. More knowledge 11 you that. I mean, actually even had goalies
12 than you. 12 playing without any face masks or head gear, so
13 THE WITNESS: Yeah, that's what I thought 13 that it was -- most of the steps had been made
14 you meant. 14 subsequent to that in protection.
15 MR. DAVIDSON: About how players were 15 Q. And what about -- and when you came
16 treated. Good catch. 16 into the league in 1975, what rules or protocols or
17 THE WITNESS: Well, you kept on talking 17 procedures did the NHL have in place to diagnose
18 about me. 18 players for concussions?
19 MR. DAVIDSON: That's what we're here for. 19 A. I don't know.
20 THE WITNESS: I've got an inferior complex. 20 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
21 MR. DAVIDSON: I don't think that's true at 21 question.
22 all. 22 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
23 THE WITNESS: Well, I am inferior. 23 Q. Do you know what rules or procedures
24 The following was marked for Identification: 24 the NHL had in place when you came into the league
25 EXH. 9 e-mail chain 25 in '75 to treat players who suffered from a
Page 119 Page 121

1 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 1 concussion?
2 Q. Sir, I'm going to show you what I've 2 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
3 had marked as Exhibit 9 to your deposition. It's 3 question.
4 an e-mail chain between Mr. Colin Campbell and 4 THE WITNESS: No.
5 Mr. Mike Murphy on October 14th, 2006. And at 9:24 5 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
6 a.m. Mr. Murphy e-mails Mr. Campbell and says the 6 Q. And when you came into the league in
7 following: I think about when we played. Head 7 1975, were you aware of any warnings that the NHL
8 shots. That was life in the league. You stood up 8 or the teams were giving their players regarding
9 for yourself, and your coach and GM told you to 9 the potential long-term effect of getting
10 have some balls or go home. I must be getting old. 10 repeatedly hit in the head?
11 And he goes on. 11 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
12 So if Mr. Murphy says this is how he was 12 question.
13 treated back when he played, would you have any 13 THE WITNESS: No.
14 reason to doubt that? 14 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
15 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 15 Q. How about -- let's go to 1980. So in
16 question. 16 1980, what did the NHL do, if anything, to insure
17 THE WITNESS: What he wrote, I have no 17 that players were properly diagnosed with
18 doubt -- I have no reason to doubt it nor to agree 18 concussions?
19 with it. 19 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
21 Q. Do you know whether your coaches and 21 THE WITNESS: I'm not aware.
22 general managers at the Bruins ever told their 22 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
23 players or told your players to grow some balls or 23 Q. In 1980, are you aware of anything the
24 go home? 24 NHL did to properly treat concussions?
25 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 25 A. No, I'm not.

612.338.3376
Page 122 Page 124

1 Q. And in 1980, are you aware of any 1 governors since 1975, right?
2 warnings that the NHL gave to its players about the 2 A. Right.
3 potential long-term effects on their brains of 3 Q. Prior to the concussion study starting
4 getting repeatedly hit in the head? 4 in 1997, are you aware of any examples where the
5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 5 NHL warned players that they risked long-term brain
6 question. 6 disease as a result of getting repeatedly hit in
7 THE WITNESS: No, I'm not. 7 the head?
9 Q. Well, until the -- let's go up until -- 9 question.
10 let's go to the mid-'90s, before the NHL ever 10 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat that?
11 started studying concussions. Are you aware of any 11 MR. DAVIDSON: I'll try.
12 rules or procedures in place at the NHL to 12 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
13 diagnose, properly diagnose players with 13 Q. Prior to the concussion study that
14 concussions? 14 began in 1997, are you aware of any warnings that
15 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 15 the NHL gave to any players that the players risked
16 question. 16 long-term brain disease as a result of getting
17 THE WITNESS: I'm not aware. 17 repeatedly hit in the head?
19 Q. Are you aware of any rules or 19 question.
20 procedures in place at the NHL until, say, 1995 to 20 THE WITNESS: No, I'm not.
21 insure that players who were concussed were 21 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
22 properly treated? 22 Q. Did you have any conversations with
23 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 23 any -- well, strike that.
24 question. 24 Have you had any conversations with any
25 THE WITNESS: I'm not aware. 25 commissioner, Commissioner Bettman, Commissioner --
Page 123 Page 125

1 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 1 I don't know if he was a commissioner. Ziegler,
2 Q. And are you aware from -- until 1995 2 was he a president?
3 whether the NHL ever warned any of their players 3 A. No, he was a commissioner.
4 about the potential long-term effects on their 4 Q. He was a commissioner.
5 brains of getting repeatedly hit in the head? 5 MR. GOLDFEIN: He's president of the league.
6 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 6 THE WITNESS: Oh, that's right, because
7 question. 7 Fisher didn't -- you're right.
8 THE WITNESS: No, I'm not. 8 MR. DAVIDSON: See? You guys are now
9 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 9 fighting. Don't fight.
10 Q. So, let's see, 1975 to 1995, 20 years. 10 THE WITNESS: No, it's interesting that the
11 So for the first 20 years of your ownership of the 11 league didn't contact -- didn't call him
12 Bruins, are you aware of any policies that the NHL 12 commissioner until Gary came in, yeah.
13 had in place with respect to diagnosing, treating, 13 MR. DAVIDSON: I was -- I found that out
14 or warning players about concussions? 14 recently myself.
16 question. 16 Q. So since you've been -- well, strike
17 THE WITNESS: I'm not aware of the policies 17 that.
18 that applied to head injuries that you're 18 When was Mr. Ziegler the president of the
19 indicating, and my lack of awareness does -- should 19 league? From when to when?
20 not be interpreted as nonexisting. 20 A. I don't have the dates. He started in
21 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 21 the '70s sometime, and he went up until Gary came
22 Q. So -- but just you personally are not 22 in in '90 --
23 aware? 23 MR. GOLDFEIN: I'm not allowed to testify.
24 A. I'm personally not aware. 24 THE WITNESS: He came in the '90s sometime.
25 Q. Okay. And you've been on the board of 25 MR. DAVIDSON: Sure. I don't mind at all.

612.338.3376
Page 126 Page 128

1 MR. GOLDFEIN: I think in like December of 1
2 '92 I think he may have started. 2
3 THE WITNESS: '92, so Ziegler was in, and 3
4 then what's his name from Philly was there for a 4
5 year and a half or so. I can't think of the guy's 5
6 name right now but -- 6
7 MR. GOLDFEIN: Gil Stein. 7

8 THE WITNESS: Gil Stein. 8
10 Q. So while Mr. Ziegler or Mr. Stein were 10
11 running the league, did you have any conversations 11
12 with either of them about warning -- warnings that 12
13 should be given to the NHL players regarding the 13
14 potential long-term problems associated with 14
15 repeated hits to the head? 15
16 MR. GOLDFEIN: I'm going to object to the 16
17 form of the question. 17
18 THE WITNESS: I could have. I have no 18
19 recollection of it. 19
21 Q. Have you had any conversations with 21
22 Commissioner Bettman individually about whether a 22
23 player should be warned about potential long-term 23
24 neurodegenerative problems that could arise from 24
25 repeated hits to the head? 25
Page 127 Page 129

1 MR. GOLDFEIN: Okay. Now, there's two 1
2 objections. One is lack of foundation, but the 2
3 other is to the extent that you had any 3
4 conversations with the commissioner regarding this 4
5 lawsuit which involved the allegations in this 5
6 lawsuit and counsel were present, you should not 6
7 answer the question, but you can otherwise answer 7
8 the question. 8
10 Q. So other than discussions that you had 10

11 in the presence of a lawyer, have you had any 11
12 conversations with Commissioner Bettman about 12
13 whether players in the NHL should be warned of 13
14 potential long-term problems associated with 14
15 repeated head hits? 15
16 A. No. 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 130 Page 132

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 131 Page 133

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 134 Page 136

1 1 certified helmet at the beginning of each year?
2 2 A. I -- no, I do not.
3 3 Q. And we talked a little bit earlier
4 4 about whether helmets prevent concussions, and I
5 5 believe you testified that you believe that they do
6 6 in certain circumstances.
7 7 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
8 8 question.
10 10 Q. So I can ask you again: Do helmets
11 11 that -- worn by the -- by NHL players prevent
12 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 12 concussions?
13 Q. Do you know if the NHL ever 13 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
14 commissioned a study on retirees who were suffering 14 question.
15 from long-term neurodegenerative diseases? 15 THE WITNESS: The -- people have reactions
16 A. No. 16 and, using the broadest of terms, concussions, from
17 Q. Do you think that that would be a good 17 various and sundry types of falls or hits or
18 idea? 18 activity. Some helmets can keep people from,
19 A. I think it's one that should be -- 19 quote/unquote, concussing where other falls will
20 should perhaps be forwarded to be looked at by 20 not be protected against it.
21 other people whether they think it's worthwhile 21 So generically, if you took -- and you think
22 doing. Some people are closer to the -- closer to 22 if you watch the way some of these studies run,
23 the definition of what we're doing. 23 sometimes it's the vibration within the head and
24 Q. Do you think it would be a good idea, 24 the helmet as it's described to me, it happens,
25 you personally? 25 that will not stop that from happening irrespective
Page 135 Page 137

1 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 1 of what you put on their head, I believe.
2 question. 2 If somebody -- if you drop a fellow from one
3 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I don't know. 3 story, he -- he may not concuss. If you drop him
4 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 4 from ten, he might or the helmet might not be able
5 Q. Okay. What time we got? 5 to protect him, so that various falls may be
6 THE WITNESS: It is 11:15. 6 protected and others may not be.
7 MR. DAVIDSON: Can we take a five-minute 7 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
8 break. 8 Q. Have you seen any published or
9 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. 9 nonpublished studies or reports that say that the
10 The time is 11:14. 10 helmets that are used by NHL players from 1979 to
11 (A recess was then taken.) 11 today will prevent any concussions?
12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record. The 12 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
13 time is 11:27. 13 question.
14 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 14 THE WITNESS: Any?
15 Q. Okay, Mr. Jacobs. We're back on the 15 MR. DAVIDSON: Even a single concussion.
16 record. I want to talk to you a little bit more 16 THE WITNESS: Have I seen a report?
17 about helmets, because we talked a little bit about 17 MR. DAVIDSON: Yeah.
18 it earlier. They became mandatory for new players 18 THE WITNESS: No.
19 in 1979; is that correct? 19 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
20 A. I think that's correct. 20 Q. So, I mean, I'm wondering what -- did
21 Q. But everybody else was -- if you were 21 somebody tell you that the helmets worn by NHL
22 already a veteran, you were grandfathered in? 22 players can prevent certain concussions?
23 A. Right. 23 A. What I'm giving you is the information
24 Q. And then do you recall a period of time 24 that I heard when we did it with -- related to
25 when the NHL required that a player be issued a new 25 horse shows and horses.

612.338.3376
Page 138 Page 140

1 Q. Okay. 1 Exhibit 10 to your deposition. It's the minutes of
2 A. And riding. 2 the general managers meeting held in Boca Raton,
3 Q. The helmets worn by riders, by horse 3 Florida, from March 12th through 14th, 2012. Do
4 riders, are different from the helmets worn by 4 you see that?
5 hockey players, correct? 5 A. Yes, I do.
6 A. Correct, correct. 6 Q. And this is a meeting that you as an
7 Q. My 11-year-old rides horses, not very 7 owner or governor would not attend; is that right?
8 well. 8 A. That's correct. I was not there.
9 A. My condolences. 9 Q. And who was there representing your
10 Q. I know. It's expensive. If I had your 10 organization, the Boston --
11 money, I wouldn't be so upset. 11 A. Peter Chiarelli.
12 A. You wouldn't be doing this. 12 Q. And Mr. Chiarelli in March 2012 held
13 Q. The -- touche. So have you -- have you 13 what job title?
14 seen any reports or has anybody ever told you that 14 A. General manager.
15 the helmets worn by NHL players from '79 to 2015, 15 Q. Who hired -- who hires the general
16 that those will prevent certain concussions? 16 manager?
17 A. No. 17 A. In the case of Chiarelli, he was hired
18 Q. So why are helmets mandatory now? 18 by myself, my son, and Harry Sinden.
19 A. Why are helmets mandatory now. They 19 Q. Is he still the GM?
20 are perceived to be and understood to be a way of 20 A. No. He's now GM of Edmonton.
21 protecting one's head in contact. 21 Q. Okay. Who is your current GM?
22 Q. Are they perceived to be a way to 22 A. Don Sweeney.
23 protect someone's head from a concussion? 23 Q. Did you hire him -- Mr. Sweeney?
24 A. I don't know. 24 A. Mr. Sweeney was hired by Cam Neely and
25 Q. Okay. 25 my son, Charlie.
Page 139 Page 141

1 The following was marked for Identification: 1 Q. Gotcha. Now, would you have seen --
2 EXH. 10 minutes of meeting of the general 2 received a copy of these minutes after they were
3 managers, 12 pages 3 transcribed?
5 Q. I'm going to show you what I've marked 5 Q. Would you have had a discussion with
6 as Exhibit 10 to your deposition which purports to 6 your general manager, Mr. Chiarelli, after this
7 be the meeting of the general managers -- wait. Is 7 meeting took place?
8 this the one I wanted? 8 A. Yes.
9 A. This is general managers. 9 Q. And what would that discussion have
10 Q. Yeah. 10 entailed?
11 A. Boca Raton, your backyard. 11 A. I would have said, is there anything
12 Q. It is my backyard. Okay. 12 that transpired that I should know about, and he
13 A. They don't send us there. 13 would inform me with what he thought I should know.
14 Q. You've never had a BOG meeting at -- 14 Q. Okay. Without kind of reading all
15 A. Yes, we have. 15 this -- these minutes, do you happen to have an
16 Q. -- Boca Resort? 16 independent recollection of what you would have
17 A. Yes, we did, this last year. 17 spoken with Mr. Chiarelli about after this March
18 Q. That's what I thought. 18 2012 meeting?
19 A. Worst place we've ever been. No, it's 19 A. I think the conversation went like two
20 lovely, it's lovely. I just -- just saying that 20 days in the sun in Boca, laying in the sand.
21 that destination is your home. 21 Q. Thank you for my job? So -- but you
22 Q. Yes, as yours, one of yours. 22 don't have an independent recollection --
23 A. Yes, it's close. 23 A. No.
24 Q. About 25 minutes for you. 24 Q. -- of what you spoke about after this
25 So I'm showing you what I've marked as 25 meeting?

612.338.3376
Page 142 Page 144

1 Now, if you turn to page 3 of 12 of this -- 1 chronic traumatic encephalopathy?
2 these minutes, you'll see there's a -- there's a 2 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
3 discussion about -- well, if you start with page 2, 3 question.
4 just for context purposes, there's a discussion in 4 THE WITNESS: Yes. That's what they mean.
5 the middle -- starting in the middle of page 2 5 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
6 about a concussion report. Do you see that? 6 Q. That's what they mean. What's your
7 A. Yes, I do. 7 knowledge of chronic traumatic encephalopathy?
8 Q. And it says in the first paragraph: 8 A. None.
9 Julie Grand introduced NHL medical consultant 9 Q. Are you aware that certain professional
10 Willem Meeuwisse and NHL Concussion Working Group 10 football players have been -- have been diagnosed
11 chair Ruben Echemendia and previewed the topics 11 with having chronic traumatic encephalopathy after
12 that would be addressed in their presentation 12 they have passed away?
13 regarding concussions. 13 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection to the form of the
14 Do you see that? 14 question.
15 A. Yes, I do. 15 THE WITNESS: That's a -- that's a condition
16 Q. And we've talked earlier about Mr. -- 16 found in a brain that is dead.
17 Dr. Meeuwisse and Dr. Echemendia -- 17 MR. DAVIDSON: Correct. It's a condition
18 A. Yes, we did. 18 found in the brain of a deceased individual.
19 Q. -- correct? Have you ever met either 19 THE WITNESS: It's a dead brain.
20 of them? 20 MR. DAVIDSON: It's a disease found in the
21 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 21 brain of a deceased individual. I don't -- whether
22 question. 22 it's a dead brain or not --
23 THE WITNESS: I don't recall. 23 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
25 Q. Now, if you turn to page 3 -- 25 THE WITNESS: Do you think it's alive?
Page 143 Page 145

1 A. There's some terminology. CTE is what? 1 MR. DAVIDSON: I would doubt it.
2 There's a CTE scan. I don't think that's what they 2 THE WITNESS: I would, too.
3 meant. 3 MR. DAVIDSON: But I would leave that to the
4 Q. On the second -- 4 neuro -- neurologist and neurosurgeons.
5 A. The second paragraph. 5 THE WITNESS: You're in the same place I am.
6 Q. Second paragraph, Dr. Ruben Echemendia 6 MR. DAVIDSON: Exactly.
7 spoke regarding CTE and explained how CTE is 7 THE WITNESS: Good.
8 identified in patients. Do you see that? 8 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
9 A. I see it, but I don't -- 9 Q. But are you aware that CTE has been
10 Q. Is that what you're referring to? 10 found in the brain?
11 A. Yeah. I don't know what it means. 11 A. A dead brain, a dead brain.
12 Q. Have you ever heard the term CTE 12 Q. Of former football -- professional
13 before? 13 football players?
14 A. As I say, there's a CTE machine, and -- 14 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
15 and I don't think that's what they're talking 15 question.
16 about. 16 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
17 Q. No, I -- 17 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
18 A. I think it's concussion something. 18 Q. How about former professional hockey
19 Q. Have you ever heard of the 19 players?
20 neurodegenerative disease known as CTE? 20 A. I don't think so. I don't know.
21 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 21 Q. Okay. You -- so just to be clear, you
22 question. 22 have not heard that former professional hockey
23 THE WITNESS: No. 23 players have had their brain diagnosed as having
24 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 24 CTE after they've died?
25 Q. Okay. Have you ever heard of the term 25 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the

612.338.3376
Page 146 Page 148

1 question. 1 Q. Any reason to disagree with
2 THE WITNESS: I -- I think I have, yeah, I 2 Dr. Meeuwisse's --
3 think I have. 3 A. No, none whatsoever.
4 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 4 Q. -- opinion there?
5 Q. Okay. And you have no other knowledge 5 A. No, I don't -- did she have an opinion?
6 of what CTE is? 6 Q. He.
7 A. No, I don't. 7 A. Or did he -- did he have an opinion?
8 Q. Or how it's caused? 8 Q. That concussions occur when the soft
9 A. No. 9 brain makes contact with the inside of the hard
10 Q. Or the state of the medical literature 10 skull. Do you have any disagreement with that
11 on -- 11 statement?
12 A. No. 12 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
13 Q. -- it? 13 question.
14 A. I interrupted you, I'm sorry. 14 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm going to say it
15 Q. Drs. Echemendia and Meeuwisse would 15 again.
16 have more information than you -- 16 MR. DAVIDSON: Sure.
17 A. Much. 17 THE WITNESS: I thought it was a statement.
18 Q. -- on CTE? 18 I don't think it was an opinion necessarily. It
19 A. Much. 19 wasn't -- the document explained that concussions
20 Q. Okay. And on concussions in general, 20 occur when the soft brain made contact. He did
21 correct? 21 state that, right. That part, no, I have no reason
22 A. I would hope so, I would hope so. 22 to disagree with that.
23 Q. Now, if you'd turn to -- are you on 23 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
24 page 3 finally? 24 Q. And do you have any reason to disagree
25 A. Yes, I am. 25 with the state -- Dr. Meeuwisse's statement that
Page 147 Page 149

1 Q. Okay. In the middle there's a -- 1 helmets are primarily designed to prevent damage to
2 there's a paragraph that starts "Dr. Meeuwisse 2 the skull rather than to prevent energy transfer to
3 explained." Do you see that? 3 the brain?
4 A. Mm-hmm. 4 A. No, I have no reason to.
5 Q. Is that a yes? 5 Q. Okay. So according to Dr. Meeuwisse,
6 A. Yes. I'm sorry, yes. 6 if helmets do not prevent energy transfer to the
7 Q. That's okay. 7 brain and -- which is what causes concussions, then
8 A. And the soft brain made contact -- 8 helmets do not prevent concussions, ipso facto,
9 Q. Yes. It says -- 9 right?
10 A. -- with the inside of the hard skull, 10 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection to the form.
11 yeah. 11 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't -- I wouldn't reach
12 Q. Dr. Meeuwisse explained that 12 that conclusion.
13 concussions occurred when the soft brain made 13 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
14 contact with the inside of the hard skull and 14 Q. What evidence do you have that
15 explained that helmets are primarily designed to 15 helmets --
16 prevent damage to the skull rather than to prevent 16 A. None.
17 energy transfer to the brain, right? Do you see 17 Q. -- prevent -- okay. Do you know
18 that? 18 anything about the helmets that are now being
19 A. It says inside of the hard skull and 19 marketed as designed to address energy transfer to
20 explained that helmets are primarily designed to 20 the brain?
21 prevent damage to the skull rather than to prevent 21 A. No.
22 energy transfer to the brain. Dr. Meeuwisse 22 The following was marked for Identification:
23 reviewed two helmets, helmet types, that are being 23 EXH. 11 minutes of meeting of the board of
24 marketed -- marked as designed to address energy 24 governors, seven pages
25 transfer to the brain. 25 BY MR. DAVIDSON:

612.338.3376
Page 150 Page 152

1 Q. I'm going to show you Exhibit 11 to 1 people.
2 your deposition. 2 Q. And when you said they seemed to have
3 A. Oh, this is Ottawa. 3 it well in hand, do you base that on just their
4 Q. Exhibit 11 are the minutes of the 4 presentation and their --
5 meeting of the board of governors of the NHL held 5 A. Yes.
6 in Ottawa, Ontario, January 28th, 2012. 6 Q. -- apparent knowledge?
7 You were present at this meeting, correct? 7 A. Yes. Not from my own particular
8 A. Yes, yes. 8 intelligence in this area.
9 Q. And it's reflected -- your name is 9 Q. Got it. And when Dr. Meeuwisse spoke,
10 reflected -- 10 it sounded like somebody who knew what he was
11 A. Right. 11 talking about?
12 Q. -- as a member of the board? 12 A. Yes.
13 A. Yeah. I'm right here on this. 13 Q. Same with Dr. Echemendia?
14 Q. With both of your sons? 14 A. Yes.
15 A. Yeah, two of my sons were there, right. 15 Q. And then at the bottom of page 6
16 Q. Two of your sons, I'm sorry. Do you 16 you'll -- there's one sentence that starts
17 remember this meeting? 17 "Dr. Meeuwisse then reported." Do you see that --
18 A. Yes. Very cold. 18 A. Yes.
19 Q. It's not Boca. 19 Q. -- at the bottom? Do you want to read
20 A. Chiarelli goes to Boca, I go to Ottawa. 20 that out loud.
21 Q. In January. If you turn to page 6 of 21 A. Yeah. Dr. Meeuwisse then reported on
22 these minutes, you'll see there's a heading 6. 22 protective equipment as it relates to concussions
23 There's a heading 6 that says Report on Concussion 23 and explained that helmets were primarily designed
24 Program. Do you see that? 24 to prevent skull fractures, not concussions, and,
25 A. Yes, I do. 25 thus, the current helmet certification test
Page 151 Page 153

1 Q. Do you remember this discussion at this 1 measures their effectiveness in that regard.
2 January 2012 BOG meeting? 2 Dr. Meeuwisse reported on several new helmet models
3 A. I remember the discussion. 3 that claim to utilize new technology and purported
4 Q. Okay. And what do you recall about it? 4 to also reduce the risk of concussion. He advised
5 A. Just that they discussed it and I 5 that there was no scientific data currently
6 listened, and I didn't -- I retained nothing from 6 supporting these claims. He stated that Canadian
7 it. 7 Standard Associates -- Association has organized a
8 Q. And why is that? 8 working group to explore the development of testing
9 A. I don't know why. I just didn't. 9 standards that would measure a helmet effectiveness
10 Q. Over your head type -- 10 in protecting against concussions. Dr. Meeuwisse
11 A. Yeah. 11 advised that currently there was no method to -- of
12 Q. -- medical stuff? 12 determining scientifically whether a helmet reduced
13 A. Yeah. This group sound -- sounded to 13 a risk of concussion.
14 me to be very competent and very up to date of 14 Is that it?
15 what's going on in that industry -- in that field. 15 Q. Yes. Do you recall Dr. Meeuwisse
16 Q. Dr. Meeuwisse and Dr. Echemendia? 16 telling the board about that?
17 A. Mm-hmm, and the people that 17 A. What I remember them saying is that it
18 participated. 18 was work in progress and process and that -- that
19 Q. In the -- 19 they -- this was evolving. And what I really got
20 A. Julie as well. 20 from it is that they were working in the direction
21 Q. Okay. That they appeared to you to be 21 to try and do this.
22 very knowledgeable about the concussion program in 22 Q. But as of --
23 general? 23 A. I remember --
24 A. I said the Concussion Working Group 24 Q. Oh, I'm sorry.
25 seemed to have this well in hand, would be the best 25 A. -- offhand there was a discussion that

612.338.3376
Page 154 Page 156

1 our federal government and the Army people have 1 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
2 been working in this direction, that they had 2 Q. Okay. Does the NHL do any testing of
3 more -- more reason because of the concussiveness 3 its own on the helmets that NHL players wear to
4 that soldiers are experiencing, and the resources 4 determine whether they are effective at reducing
5 of the federal government was being used in this 5 skull fractures, let's say?
6 area to come up with an answer. 6 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
7 Q. Right. Because soldiers have for 7 question.
8 decades, centuries, experienced concussions 8 THE WITNESS: I don't believe that the NHL
9 themselves in wartime, right? 9 has internal capacity to do testing. Whether they
10 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 10 have a third party testing for them is -- is
11 question. 11 speculating on my part.
12 THE WITNESS: I told you what I know, okay? 12 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
13 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 13 Q. You're not aware of any testing that
14 Q. But as of January 2012, you would agree 14 the NHL does of any of the helmets that players
15 that based upon Dr. Meeuwisse's statements at the 15 have ever worn in the league?
16 board of governors meeting that there were no 16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
17 helmets that were scientifically proven to prevent 17 question. Asked and answered.
18 concussions being used? 18 THE WITNESS: I did, I did what he said.
20 question. 20 Q. You answered it already?
21 THE WITNESS: Report on several new helmet 21 A. Yeah, I did.
22 models that claimed to utilize but there wasn't 22 Q. Okay. Are you aware of any data that
23 any -- there was -- there was no evidence to 23 the NHL has or the board of governors has that
24 support their claims. 24 helmets reduce concussions?
Page 155 Page 157

1 Q. Is there any evidence to support any 1 question. I believe that's been asked and
2 claim that any helmets that is -- has ever been 2 answered, also, but you can answer again.
3 used by an NHL player will reduce the risk of 3 THE WITNESS: I have no knowledge of any
4 concussion? 4 data.
5 A. All I can tell you is what I read here. 5 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
6 I don't know other than -- 6 Q. Okay. But you've seen some data or
7 Q. So if Dr. Meeuwisse told the board of 7 you've spoken with somebody about horse riding
8 governors at a meeting that you were at that 8 helmets preventing --
9 currently there was no method of determining 9 A. I've definitely participated in that.
10 scientifically whether a helmet reduces the risk of 10 Q. Do you know if there's data to support
11 concussion, you would have no reason to dispute 11 that?
12 that? 12 A. They -- I know they moved to a
13 A. I wouldn't dispute them. 13 third-party testing that evaluated it, and that's
14 Q. Okay. Have you read any recent news 14 begotten the helmets that they use today.
15 articles about helmets worn by NHL players? 15 Q. In horse riding?
16 A. No, I haven't. 16 A. In horse riding, correct.
17 Q. Are you aware that a study was recently 17 Q. Okay.
18 done that tested all the current models of helmets 18 A. And I must share that I believe the
19 being worn, whether they were safe or unsafe? 19 same experience is -- the concussion versus the
20 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 20 fracture is -- is the dilemma they have today.
21 question. 21 Q. But the helmets for horse riding are
22 THE WITNESS: What's safe and unsafe? Could 22 much different than the helmets used by
23 you determine -- could you tell me? 23 professional hockey players, correct?
24 MR. DAVIDSON: I couldn't. 24 A. Not necessarily. I don't know what
25 THE WITNESS: I can't answer. 25 "much" means.

612.338.3376
Page 158 Page 160

1 Q. Well, they're made out of different 1 especially as it related to youth athletes either
2 material, are they not? 2 now or in the future.
3 A. I don't think so. 3 And later he goes on to say: Moreover, to
4 Q. No? 4 the extent the NHL has data on helmet performance
5 A. I don't think so. Not a -- not a lot. 5 that might benefit -- benefit us at CPSC, we would
6 Q. So the helmets are made of plastic, the 6 be very much interested in that as well.
7 horse riding helmet? 7 Mr. Kaye then corresponds with Miss Berman,
8 A. The external part is plastic and then 8 and on the first page of this exhibit, on April
9 the internal part is -- it used to be cork. I 9 26th at 12:28 p.m., Miss Berman responds to
10 don't know what it is now, but they have -- you 10 Mr. Kaye at the bottom, quote, we don't have any
11 better check your daughter's helmet. 11 helmet data regarding concussions, sorry, stay in
12 Q. Who's Jessica Berman? 12 touch.
13 A. Oh, golly. Jessica Berman works in the 13 Is that consistent with your knowledge?
14 league, I believe. I think she's of counsel. I'm 14 A. I don't know anything about this. I
15 not sure. She's counsel. 15 can't comment.
16 Q. She's associate counsel? 16 Q. Okay. Now, I think back earlier at the
17 A. Yeah. She's one, similar to -- 17 beginning of the deposition, you agreed with me
18 Q. Have you ever spoken with -- 18 that one of your responsibilities as a member of
19 A. Jessica? 19 the board of governors is to protect the health and
20 Q. -- Jessica? 20 safety of the players; is that right?
21 A. I'm sure I have. 21 A. I think that is.
22 The following was marked for Identification: 22 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
23 EXH. 12 e-mail chain, four pages 23 question.
25 Q. Do you know what the Consumer Product 25 Q. Is fighting, not fighting for position
Page 159 Page 161

1 Safety Commission is? 1 in front of the goal, but fist fighting --
2 A. I've heard of them. 2 A. Fist fighting.
3 Q. What are they? 3 Q. -- fist fighting safe for the players
4 A. They're an agency that usually -- that 4 that are involved in the fight?
5 will test products such as baby cribs and things 5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
6 like that that have -- see that the representations 6 question.
7 are what they are, they should be. 7 THE WITNESS: Fist fighting is against the
8 Q. According to Exhibit 12, it's an e-mail 8 rules of hockey and is penalized at various levels.
9 chain beginning with an e-mail from an individual 9 Suspension, two-minute, four -- two-minute,
10 by the name of Elliot Kaye, senior counsel to the 10 four-minute, five-minute suspension from the games,
11 chairman, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety 11 at all different levels, depending on how the
12 Commission, to Brendan Shanahan on April 5th, 2011. 12 referee sees it and the league leadership sees it.
13 It's going on the last couple pages. 13 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
14 A. Do you want me to go to the last couple 14 Q. Is fighting with bare-knuckle fists
15 pages? Is that what you want? 15 safe for the players involved?
16 Q. We're going chronologically. 16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
17 A. Okay. 17 question.
18 Q. And Mr. Kaye asked Mr. Shanahan -- 18 THE WITNESS: I don't think so.
19 well, he says in the second paragraph on the 19 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
20 second-last page of this exhibit: As you may have 20 Q. Just as if I were to come across the
21 seen in some media reports in recent months, CPSC 21 table and strike you, that would not be safe for
22 has been engaged in examining a number of issues 22 you?
23 related to helmets, in particular on the topic of 23 A. No, it would not. Nor for you.
24 mild traumatic brain injury, MTBI, and whether 24 Q. Nor for me, most importantly.
25 helmets can meaningfully reduce associated risks 25 Do you believe that the board of governors

612.338.3376
Page 162 Page 164

1 could institute a rule that would make fighting -- 1 helmets, which you're now saying don't work, but at
2 that would eliminate fighting, bare-knuckle fist 2 the time when it was, they were -- it was supposed
3 fighting, completely from the game? 3 to work.
4 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 4 The safety valve theory is a theory that
5 question. 5 evolved over the hundred years, not the 40 years
6 THE WITNESS: I don't -- I can't answer 6 I've been involved, so it's not something new.
7 that. 7 It's something that's been going on for many, many
8 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 8 years.
9 Q. How come? 9 Q. Have you ever seen any data, empirical
10 A. I think there's a whole body of 10 evidence backing up this safety valve theory?
11 information that needs to come to that conclusion. 11 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
12 I think that the way the game is regulated today 12 question.
13 and the rest is a consideration under the 13 THE WITNESS: Empirical, explain what you
14 competition committee which is conformed by the 14 mean.
15 Players' Association and ourselves. 15 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
16 We don't do things unilaterally that way. 16 Q. Numbers, data, studies done that
17 The players have a great deal of -- at stake in 17 support --
18 this, as much or more than any one of us do. And 18 A. Expertise?
19 then there's 30 teams, 29 of which participate in 19 Q. An expert, somebody that says --
20 it. So I think it's a -- it's a complicated answer 20 A. Clarence Campbell.
21 for a complicated question. 21 Q. Clarence Campbell is your expert on
22 Q. And I'm curious about why it's so 22 fighting?
23 complicated. 23 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
24 A. Yeah. 24 question.
25 Q. If it's not safe for the players 25 THE WITNESS: Clarence Campbell -- no, no,
Page 163 Page 165

1 involved and your responsibility is to protect the 1 you asked me if -- empirical, you used expert.
2 health and safety of the players, why is it so 2 Clarence Campbell was the chairman -- or was the
3 complicated to take something out of the game that 3 chairman of the National Hockey -- or president of
4 would make it safer? 4 the National Hockey League a hundred years ago, so
5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 5 he did. I mean, that was his --
6 question. 6 MR. DAVIDSON: His view.
7 THE WITNESS: Your -- how long is a short 7 THE WITNESS: -- his viewpoint, yeah. But
8 circuit? You're saying -- you're saying that the 8 I'm not saying that it's right or wrong. You asked
9 rules and the way they're being applied now is not 9 me. In an effort to try and reach the proper
10 enough reason, you feel that we should do more, and 10 answer, I said yes, and I cited him. Maybe -- does
11 I think we're -- some people think we're doing too 11 he fit in the character of an empirical?
12 much on that, that the incitement of fighting and 12 MR. DAVIDSON: Empirical.
13 all is part of the fabric of the game. That seems 13 THE WITNESS: Empirical.
14 to be the opinion that I receive from others, and 14 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
15 they say that the resultant agitation by -- of the 15 Q. All right. Do you think one individual
16 aggressiveness of the game inspires spontaneous 16 saying that this safety valve theory exists is
17 fighting. 17 enough to support it?
19 Q. Is that the safety valve theory? 19 question as argumentative.
20 A. There is that theory. Do I agree or 20 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I mean, to me,
21 disagree? I really don't have an opinion. But I 21 he was head of the league for many years, and that
22 think -- I think it's something that deserves 22 was his point of view. I don't know if he -- if he
23 serious consideration. 23 competes with a Boca lawyer, but he definitely had
24 Bear in mind, we're talking about another -- 24 an opinion at that time from -- and he had a point
25 the other side, the players' side that objected to 25 of view.

612.338.3376
Page 166 Page 168

1 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 1 saying that, well, you should do more. Yeah, you
2 Q. Do you agree with that point of view? 2 are, you are.
3 A. I think there is, yes, I do. 3 Q. I'm worried about the players that are
4 Q. You do. And my question is -- 4 involved.
5 A. I think there's a point is -- do I -- I 5 A. Me, too. Me, too.
6 take his side other than yours. I just think that 6 Q. So then why not get rid of it
7 he's very sophisticated and understands what the 7 completely? You've seen --
8 product was back then, and it's changed. It's 8 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object.
9 changed through the years. 9 THE WITNESS: It's argumentative.
10 Q. And it was a product? 10 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
11 A. What? 11 Q. I'm sorry. You've seen tragedies from
12 Q. Mr. Campbell was interested in selling 12 enforcers that have committed suicide, several of
13 a product. 13 them. Do you not think that there is a link
14 A. If -- Mr. Campbell was interested in 14 between all the hits that they took to their head
15 doing the right thing for the game. He was 15 while being an enforcer in the league and the
16 interested in the best interest of the game, and he 16 tragedy that befell them and their family?
17 was interested in the best interest of the players. 17 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection to the form of the
18 And collectively those players and the game are 18 question.
19 what our fans see today and they consume. He was 19 THE WITNESS: I just don't think that
20 interested in the best interest and long-term 20 there's a -- one connects to two. I mean, I really
21 interest of the wealth of the individuals that 21
22 participated in the game. 22
23 Q. So my question is: Where did 23
24 Mr. Campbell get this safety valve theory from? 24 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
25 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 25 Q. You don't know that for a fact, that
Page 167 Page 169

1 question. 1 there's no connection, do you?
2 THE WITNESS: I think you need to ask him. 2 A. I don't know whether he got hit in the
3 I think that he wrote on this, and I think there 3 head for a fact.
4 probably is -- if you look deep enough, you'll see 4 Q. But the players -- but the enforcers
5 where he's commented to this or referred to this 5 who have committed suicide, you don't know whether
6 more than once, and I think he's been asked the 6 there's a link between all the hits to the head
7 question that you're asking. 7 they took as fighting in the league and their --
8 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 8 their depression and their suicide, do you?
9 Q. Is he a -- was he a psychologist? 9 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
10 A. He may have been. I don't know. 10 question.
11 Q. But other than Mr. Campbell, you're not 11 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I don't know.
12 aware of any studies or data backing up this safety 12 I don't know.
13 valve theory? 13 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
14 A. I remember back with Eddie Shore hit 14 Q. So why not play it safe, get rid of
15 somebody over the head with a stick instead of 15 fighting completely in the league so that something
16 hitting him with his fist, and I think hitting him 16 like that, even if it's a remote possibility,
17 over the head with a stick, he should have been 17 doesn't happen?
18 thrown out of the game for good, but he wasn't. 18 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
19 And I think there was a level of tolerance 19 question.
20 back then that was acceptable, that taking that out 20 THE WITNESS: I -- I have no opinion on
21 of the game helped to improve it, and I think -- I 21 that.
22 think our approach to the -- I got to say, I think 22 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
23 our approach to taking fighting out of the game as 23 Q. Is it more important that you sell your
24 we have has been -- has met the issue and done a 24 product to the fans and the TV viewing audience?
25 very good job with it. I guess you're reaching for 25 A. And provide the jobs for the players?

612.338.3376
Page 170 Page 172

1 Q. Yeah. That's a good -- also. 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record. The
2 A. That's definitely -- if your objective 2 time is 12:09.
3 is to destroy the league, you can take it apart 3 MR. GOLDFEIN: Okay. I'm asking you, what
4 piece by piece, I'm sure. 4 is this, to preview what this is, please. Is it
5 Q. Has the NHL glorified the fighting that 5 game footage? Where did you get it from? Is it
6 takes place in the league? 6 from ESPN? Is it the club's game footage? Is it a
7 A. I don't think -- 7 promotional piece? What is it?
8 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 8 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. This is video footage
9 question. 9 captured off of YouTube from a NESN broadcast of a
10 THE WITNESS: I think that's only in the 10 Boston Bruins-Buffalo Sabres game.
11 eyes of the beholder. I think that there's -- some 11 MR. GOLDFEIN: So it's game footage.
12 people want to magnify that as a part of it. 12 MR. DAVIDSON: Yes.
13 Others -- others find it repugnant. 13 MR. GOLDFEIN: It's just game footage.
14 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 14 MR. DAVIDSON: Yeah.
15 Q. But it happens? 15 MR. GOLDFEIN: It's not a promotional piece.
16 A. What's that? 16 MR. DAVIDSON: No.
17 Q. Glorifying of the fighting in the 17 MR. GOLDFEIN: It's just game footage.
18 league. 18 MR. DAVIDSON: Game footage.
19 A. I say the individual would -- you can 19 MR. GOLDFEIN: Okay. Thank you.
20 take any -- any movie you go to, they can -- kids 20 MR. DAVIDSON: All right. So I'm going to
21 come out and see the blood and glory and the other 21 show you this video, Mr. Jacobs, and then we'll ask
22 ones see the love and hate. I don't know. 22 a couple questions about it.
23 Q. So let's -- putting aside the fans, 23 (Video played.)
24 let's focus on the teams and the Bruins, your team. 24 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
25 A. Yes. 25 Q. That's a broadcast from Boston's NESN,
Page 171 Page 173

1 Q. Has your team ever glorified fighting? 1 correct, N-E-S-N?
2 A. No, not in the last ten years for me, 2 A. That's correct.
3 with me. 3 Q. You have an ownership interest in --
4 MR. DAVIDSON: I'm going to mark this video 4 A. Yes.
5 as Exhibit Number 13. 5 Q. NESN is a Boston TV station?
6 The following was marked for Identification: 6 A. It's a regional sports network.
7 EXH. 13 video 7 Q. Okay. Those were NESN announcers?
8 MR. DAVIDSON: We're going to mark this as 8 A. Yeah, they would be either -- they
9 Exhibit 13 to your deposition. I'm going to show 9 would be a NESN announcer, yeah.
10 you a video, Mr. -- 10 Q. Okay. Do you have any involvement in
11 MR. GOLDFEIN: Is this pre-marked as an 11 the hiring or disciplining of the announcers at
12 exhibit? 12 NESN?
13 MR. DAVIDSON: Yes, it is. 13 A. We participate in the board of NESN.
14 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 14 No, it's managed, professionally managed.
15 Q. I'm going to show you the -- I'm going 15 Q. Had you ever seen -- were you at that
16 to ask you to watch this video, if you guys want to 16 game?
17 come around. 17 A. No, no. That was here in Buffalo.
18 MR. GOLDFEIN: What is this video? 18 Q. Were you aware of that incident?
19 MR. DAVIDSON: This is a video of Milan 19 A. I saw it.
20 Lucic and Paul Gaustad. 20 Q. When did you see it?
21 MR. GOLDFEIN: What is it, though? Whose 21 A. On -- when I was watching New England
22 publication? 22 Sports Network that night.
23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record. The time 23 Q. Did you see that broadcast?
24 is 12:07. 24 A. Yes.
25 (Discussion off the record.) 25 Q. Did you see -- did you listen to the

612.338.3376
Page 174 Page 176

1 broadcast? 1 Q. Do you know if anybody was disciplined
2 A. I saw it. I listened to it. 2 for it?
3 Q. And what was your opinion after you saw 3 A. Yes. They both went to the penalty
4 it? 4 box, didn't they?
5 A. I thought it was unnecessary. 5 Q. Okay. Do you know if they played the
6 Q. What part? 6 next game?
7 A. The whole thing. 7 A. I don't know. I don't know what the
8 Q. The fighting? 8 final outcome of that was.
9 A. The fighting part was unnecessary. It 9 Q. What about the NESN broadcasters
10 didn't do anything for the game. 10 that --
11 Q. What was your opinion of -- well, 11 A. What about them?
12 strike that. 12 Q. Did they get disciplined?
13 You saw the box at the bottom at the 13 A. That's known as freedom of speech. If
14 beginning of the fight that said Tale of the Tape? 14 you start disciplining them and what they do and
15 A. Yes, I did. 15 you're going to have other issues.
16 Q. Okay. That's a boxing phrase, is it 16 Q. Freedom of speech applies to the
17 not? 17 government. It doesn't apply to private
18 A. No. It's the size of the two players, 18 individuals.
19 for God's sakes. 19 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form.
20 Q. I understand that, but the -- 20 THE WITNESS: Object. That is -- you're
21 A. No. Tale of the Tape? You go -- go to 21 giving me legal advice that I don't think you're
22 your tailor, runs around your waist, look at the 22 competent to do.
23 Tale of the Tape. 23 MR. DAVIDSON: Oh, I -- as far as
24 Q. So in your opinion, in your view, using 24 constitutional law goes, I think I'm --
25 the words -- the phrase Tale of the Tape in 25 MR. GOLDFEIN: I'm going to object to the
Page 175 Page 177

1 connection with a fight is not something that is 1 form of the question. You're lecturing the
2 commonly done in boxing? 2 witness. The question lacks foundation and, by the
3 A. It happened in this case, and it -- and 3 way, you're incorrect on the law, but that's
4 it probably is -- I think it's done in basketball, 4 irrelevant. You have that position.
5 it's done in football, and it's done in all sports. 5 MR. DAVIDSON: I had that discussion with
6 He's six foot and he's seven feet. That's the Tale 6 you just out of curiosity.
7 of the Tape. 7 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
8 Q. So you don't consider that to be a 8 Q. In the video that you saw, you saw
9 reference to boxing? 9 much -- multiple punches to the face.
10 A. I don't think so. Maybe it is. 10 A. Yeah. They swung at one another,
11 Q. What about unanimous decision, is that 11 you're right.
12 a boxing phrase? 12 Q. Punches to the head?
13 A. That announcer used that term, yes. 13 A. They were --
14 Q. Okay. And it's a phrase you would hear 14 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
15 in boxing, correct? 15 question. The video speaks for itself.
16 A. Yeah, I guess that you would, yes, you 16 THE WITNESS: The video does speak for
17 would. 17 itself.
18 Q. Would you agree with me that that video 18 MR. DAVIDSON: Right.
19 is an example of using fighting to promote the 19 THE WITNESS: They were also on skates.
20 game? 20 MR. DAVIDSON: Right.
21 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection to the form of the 21 THE WITNESS: Right.
23 THE WITNESS: I don't know if it promotes 23 Q. Why is that important to you?
24 the game. 24 A. Did you ever see the kind of purchase
25 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 25 you have on skates versus on the solid ground?

612.338.3376
Page 178 Page 180

1 Q. Did I ever see what? 1 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
2 A. The purchase. You don't know what 2 Q. You can still answer.
3 purchase means? 3 A. I object to the form of the question.
4 Q. Mm-mmm. 4 Q. You can still answer it, though.
5 A. You don't? 5 A. It doesn't sound like it is.
6 Q. Nope. 6 Q. All right. And if you wanted to
7 A. Well, we might need a definition for 7 eliminate brain injuries to the fullest extent
8 that. When you're standing on the ground, you 8 possible, wouldn't you want to ban fighting?
9 have -- you have a base. When you're skating -- 9 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
10 when you're standing on skates, you don't have the 10 question.
11 same base. 11 THE WITNESS: Ban fighting? Fighting is
12 Q. That I know. I played hockey for 13 12 punished at this point in the game.
13 years. I just never -- I didn't fight. 13 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
14 A. You didn't? 14 Q. Wouldn't you want to punish fighting
15 Q. I did not. 15 more severely so that the players know that there
16 A. Are you sure? 16 are harsher consequences for fighting?
17 Q. I'm positive. Have you seen how short 17 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
18 I am? 18 question. Lacks foundation.
19 A. It's a -- it's harder to hit somebody 19 THE WITNESS: Again we get back to
20 when you're on skates. I mean, but it's a 20 relative -- relativity. People might think that
21 condition everybody has when they're out there, so 21 it's punishable by too much now, and others might
22 when you see them swinging, it's a little different 22 not feel that it's adequately punished at this
23 effect. The cause and effect's a little different. 23 point. I think that it's more than adequately
24 Q. It doesn't make it any less healthy for 24 punished right now.
25 the brain to be punched by a person on skates, does 25 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
Page 179 Page 181

1 it? 1 Q. So you have a -- so you have a
2 A. I can't answer that. 2 reverence of some sort for Clarence Campbell, is
3 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 3 that -- would that be accurate?
5 THE WITNESS: I can't answer that. I don't 5 question.
6 know what -- we're not talking about brain health, 6 THE WITNESS: I never said that.
7 for me, for what I think. 7 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
8 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 8 Q. No, I know you didn't, but I'm -- based
9 Q. But getting punched in the head is not 9 upon the way you were referring to him, it seems
10 healthy -- 10 like that you revered him in some sense.
11 A. Isn't good, not healthy for anybody, 11 A. Clarence Campbell was out of the game
12 no. 12 when I came in. I have -- I have no -- I don't
13 Q. Okay. And it's certainly not healthy 13 hold him in any particular up or down, I really
14 for somebody's brain; would you agree with me on 14 don't.
15 that? 15 Q. But you trust his views on fighting
16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 16 obviously.
18 THE WITNESS: I don't -- I have no idea on 18 question. That wasn't the question that you were
19 that. 19 asking him. Object to the form of the question.
20 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 20 THE WITNESS: Saying that Clarence Campbell
21 Q. Doesn't common sense dictate that 21 had an opinion?
22 getting punched in the head is not healthy for the 22 MR. DAVIDSON: Which you accepted.
23 brain? 23 THE WITNESS: You asked me for any
24 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 24 empirical.
25 question. 25 MR. DAVIDSON: Right.

612.338.3376
Page 182 Page 184

1 THE WITNESS: Should we go ask her? 1 is --
2 MR. DAVIDSON: No, you're right. I did ask 2 A. You gave me the definition of
3 you, and you referred to one person who told you 3 empirical. I don't want -- it's argumentative, and
4 about the safety valve theory. 4 it really doesn't serve anybody's purpose.
5 THE WITNESS: And you went ahead and said I 5 Q. I agree with you.
6 had reverence at that point, so I'm afraid to go 6 A. But you want to go down that lane, I'll
7 forward. Otherwise, you'll characterize these 7 ride with you.
8 people as my being reverential. 8 Q. I agree with you.
9 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 9 A. Thank you.
10 Q. Do you -- I gathered from your prior 10 Q. It's not serving anybody's purpose, but
11 testimony that you agreed with Clarence Campbell's 11 I'm trying to get a sense as to how you view
12 safety valve theory? 12 Clarence Campbell and whether his knowledge of the
13 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection to the form of the 13 game is something that you --
14 question. 14 A. He has got extensive knowledge of the
15 MR. DAVIDSON: Am I wrong? 15 game, different than you and different than me.
16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 16 Q. Right.
17 question. 17 A. He was president of the league for its
18 THE WITNESS: Said there is a -- you -- no, 18 formative years and for very, very many, and he was
19 excuse me, excuse me. I think we need to go back 19 regarded -- and he's in the Hall of Fame and he's
20 to the question, I really do, because you were the 20 got all sorts of credentials to him, far exceeds
21 one that brought up the, quote/unquote, safety 21 anything that I have or that you have with regard
22 valve. 22 to hockey. And, therefore, he -- he -- from that
23 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 23 body of knowledge, would say that he is probably
24 Q. Right. I asked you if there was any 24 more sophisticated in his values and his opinion
25 empirical evidence, and you brought up Clarence 25 would be more sophisticated and more complete than
Page 183 Page 185

1 Campbell. 1 yours or mine simply because he devoted a lifetime
2 A. You said -- you used the safety valve 2 of work to it.
3 theory, and you said -- and, yes, I brought up 3 Q. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that.
4 Clarence Campbell, because Clarence Campbell 4 Have you ever seen any of his writings on fighting?
5 referred to the safety valve theory. 5 A. No, not really. I saw a letter
6 Q. Which is not empirical evidence; would 6 someplace.
7 you agree with me? 7 Q. Maybe in your preparation for today?
8 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 8 A. Could have been. Could have been.
10 THE WITNESS: You said -- you said empirical 10 EXH. 14 letter dated August 29, 1974, to
11 was any expert, and I said -- I asked you to define 11 Mr. F.C. Bett from C.S.
12 empirical. I think you need to go back to the 12 Campbell, two pages
13 question quite honestly. 13 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
14 MR. DAVIDSON: Well, so why don't we 14 Q. I'm going to show you what has been
15 start -- we'll -- 15 marked as Exhibit 14 to your deposition which is
16 THE WITNESS: Let's go back. 16 a -- purports to be a letter from C.S. Campbell,
17 MR. DAVIDSON: We'll clarify it. 17 president, to a Mr. F.C. Bett, B-E-T-T, dated
18 THE WITNESS: Let's go back. 18 August 29th, 1974. Do you see that?
19 MR. DAVIDSON: No, because that's going to 19 A. Mm-hmm.
20 take 20 minutes. 20 Q. Is that a yes?
21 THE WITNESS: I got time. 21 A. Excuse me, yes.
22 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 22 Q. And the "re" at the top of the letter
23 Q. Do you know what empirical means? 23 is Re: Violence in hockey. And the letter starts:
24 A. No. I asked you for a definition. 24 Dear Mr. Bett, I have your letter of August 27th in
25 Q. Right. And I'm not saying one expert 25 which you express your concern that I, quote,

612.338.3376
Page 186 Page 188

1 remain unconvinced that hockey as played today is 1 other?
2 damaging the regard for -- which all sorts of 2 A. I didn't ask them back then.
3 people have for Canada as a country, unquote. 3 Q. Okay. You had mentioned several times
4 And Mr. Campbell goes on to discuss hockey, 4 that fighting is penalized in the league, correct?
5 and I'm going to turn your attention to page 2. 5 A. Yes.
6 And if you want to read that paragraph and let me 6 Q. Notwithstanding the penalties, do you
7 know when you're done. 7 believe that the league tolerates fighting?
8 A. Which one? 8 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
9 Q. The first one. I was going to point 9 question.
10 you to one sentence, but if you want to read it -- 10 THE WITNESS: I believe that -- that they
11 A. It has become a fashion for 11 penalize for fighting. Fighting is -- is something
12 pacifist-minded do-gooders to slander the NHL as 12 that's being penalized.
13 merchandising violence with complete disregard for 13 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
14 the skills of the game. Nothing could be further 14 Q. Has fighting ever been tolerated by the
15 from the truth. The NHL has never been as 15 league?
16 nonviolent as in the last few years. I can verify 16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
17 this by close firsthand contact with it over a 17 question.
18 period of nearly 40 years. What has happened is 18 THE WITNESS: It's been penalized.
19 that a few isolated games out of a scheduled 650 19 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
20 are seen on television in recent years in which 20 Q. Not tolerated?
21 there is some fighting which immediately evokes the 21 A. It's penalized.
22 cry of violence from our critics. When did you 22 Q. Okay.
23 last hear or read of a player being injured in such 23 The following was marked for Identification:
24 a fight? 24 EXH. 15 letter dated March 18, 1977, to Ms.
25 Q. I want to point you to this next 25 Lorraine Catalano from C.S.
Page 187 Page 189

1 sentence and ask you a question. 1 Campbell, three pages
2 A. Fighting is one of the least dangerous 2 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
3 things that players do to each other. Contrary to 3 Q. I'm showing you a --
4 the opinions expressed by the Farinas and the 4 A. This is Clarence again?
5 McMurtrys, the NHL does not encourage intimidation 5 Q. Yes.
6 and fighting, and we do not believe we should adopt 6 A. I didn't know he was still president.
7 their solution for those infractions. What makes 7 Q. I'd love to know what this font is.
8 them seem more unattractive is that they are 8 MR. GOLDFEIN: You're too young to remember
9 generally associated with other undisciplined 9 the old IBM Selectrics.
10 conduct, disrespect for officials, failure to go to 10 MR. DAVIDSON: Is that what this is?
11 the penalty box, et cetera. We recognize these 11 THE WITNESS: You remember the little ball
12 shortcomings and are taking appropriate action to 12 that used to bounce around? That was a Selectric.
13 discourage such misconduct. I am sure you will 13 MR. DAVIDSON: I do. My mother used one
14 observe this for yourself in the forthcoming 14 until 2000 --
15 season. 15 THE WITNESS: Then they'd take it out and
16 Q. So my question to you is: Do you -- 16 they'd put another one in.
17 according to Mr. Campbell in 1974, he said fighting 17 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
18 is one of the least dangerous things that players 18 Q. So I'm showing you what has been marked
19 do to each other. 19 Exhibit 15 to your deposition which is a letter
20 Is that something that you agree with? 20 from Mr. Campbell again dated March 18th, 1977, to
21 A. I think it's -- I can't measure that. 21 a Ms. Lorraine Catalano, C-A-T-A-L-A-N-O, regarding
22 I would say that it's dangerous. 22 alleged violence in hockey, and starts out: Dear
23 Q. Was this the view of the NHL when you 23 Ms. Catalano, I have your letter of March 13th in
24 arrived a year later, that fighting was one of the 24 which you indicated that you are doing a term paper
25 least dangerous things that players do to each 25 on the subject of, quote/unquote, violence in

612.338.3376
Page 190 Page 192

1 hockey and for which you seek my thoughts on the 1 tolerated in his letter, does he not?
2 matter. Frankly, I don't think my thoughts on the 2 A. That's the terminology.
3 matter will be of much assistance being such as 3 Q. So who knows -- who knew more about
4 they are. And then he goes on to say: To begin 4 whether -- how fighting was treated in hockey: You
5 with, 90 percent of the people who write and gabble 5 in 1975 or Mr. Campbell?
6 about violence in hockey don't know what they are 6 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
7 talking about. 7 question.
8 And I'd like to turn your attention to page 8 THE WITNESS: I think Jerry Jacobs knows
9 2. 9 more, and he's in front of you. He's telling you
10 MR. GOLDFEIN: I think you should read -- 10 it's not tolerated. It's punishable. He's saying
11 I'm directing the witness. I think you should read 11 we're going to punish you and it's tolerable.
12 the rest of the letter to yourself. 12 They're contradictory, aren't they? I would think
13 THE WITNESS: I'm just mumbling. I didn't 13 so. I mean, in my mind, if you punish it, it's not
14 realize how hard it was to read this. Okay. 14 tolerated.
16 Q. So let me turn your attention to page 16 Q. So you have never heard any other --
17 2, fourth full paragraph. Starts with "what many 17 have you ever heard any other league official, team
18 observers zero in on." Do you see that? 18 owner, general manager ever talk about fighting
19 A. Mm-hmm. 19 being tolerated in the league?
20 Q. Is that a yes? 20 A. Never. Not in today's world.
21 A. Yes, I'm sorry. 21 Q. Was the -- and this is the safety valve
22 Q. That's all right. We all do it. 22 theory we were talking about that Mr. Campbell's
23 Mr. Campbell says in his letter: What many 23 referring to in his letter?
24 observers zero in on about hockey is that while 24 A. Yes.
25 fisticuffs or fighting is a foul in the game of 25 Q. Is that right? Was the safety valve
Page 191 Page 193

1 hockey which is penalized, it is tolerated, which 1 theory ever replaced when discussing fighting in
2 is officially not the case in other major sports. 2 the NHL?
3 We do not believe that fighting is such a heinous 3 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
4 offense. We know that it is the best, 4 question.
5 quote/unquote, safety valve against the misuse of 5 THE WITNESS: I don't understand what you're
6 other available weapons, the stick and the skates 6 saying.
7 which are capable of causing lethal injury. 7 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
8 And you read that when you read the letter 8 Q. Did the safety valve theory ever cease
9 before, correct? 9 to be the governing theory for why fighting is
10 A. Mm-hmm. 10 penalized the way it is in the NHL?
11 Q. Is that a yes? 11 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
12 A. Yes. 12 question.
13 Q. Okay. So according to Mr. Campbell, 13 THE WITNESS: I understand what he says in
14 the president of the league in March 1977, he 14 this context. I don't understand what you said.
15 says -- 15 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
16 A. It's tolerated. 16 Q. My question is: This safety valve
17 Q. -- it's tolerated. 17 theory --
18 A. Yeah. 18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. So was that the case when you came into 19 Q. -- is that -- does that exist today?
20 the league in 1975? 20 Do you believe that fighting is a necessary safety
21 A. No, no, and I don't think it's the case 21 valve to prevent players from using more dangerous
22 now. 22 methods of harming a player?
23 Q. When did it stop being tolerated? 23 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
24 A. Because it's punishable. 24 question.
25 Q. Mr. Campbell says it's punishable but 25 THE WITNESS: This is a highly physical

612.338.3376
Page 194 Page 196

1 sport. You agree, you played it. 1 theory applies across the board for all
2 MR. DAVIDSON: Yes. 2 professional sports?
3 THE WITNESS: Contact is part of the fabric 3 A. No. I'll only talk about hockey.
4 of the game. Using -- using the boards is a -- is 4 Q. Okay. Do you know whether that theory
5 part of the fabric of the game. Pushing, shoving, 5 applies to any other professional sport other than
6 fighting for position, spontaneous fighting does 6 hockey?
7 occur. It graduates from getting a glove in the 7 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection. You're talking
8 face to hitting somebody, et cetera. It's an 8 about the safety valve theory.
9 expression of frustration, and it's penalized. 9 MR. DAVIDSON: Yes.
10 Outright fighting, like you pointed out 10 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
11 there, is not something that we're looking to 11 question.
12 promote or have, but we do think that, and I 12 THE WITNESS: No.
13 believe, that this is being handled correctly right 13 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
14 now the way it's being played and the way it's 14 Q. Do any other sports have the amount of
15 being conducted. But we do not have -- hitting 15 fighting in a season that the NHL has?
16 somebody with a stick or -- is, again, it's like 16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
17 that fighting, it's a reason to be ejected from the 17 question. Lacks foundation.
18 game or suspension and sometimes for a very long 18 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
19 period of time. 19 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
20 MR. DAVIDSON: So if you -- 20 Q. The NHL has hundreds of fights every
21 MR. GOLDFEIN: Just to clarify the record, 21 year. Do you know how many fights there are in an
22 the witness, when he pointed to what you were 22 NFL season?
23 referring to before in his answer, he was referring 23 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
24 to Exhibit 13, which was the videotape. 24 question. Lacks foundation.
25 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. 25 THE WITNESS: No.
Page 195 Page 197

2 Q. Is it your opinion that hockey players 2 Q. Do you know how many fights there are
3 have more pent-up aggression than any other 3 in a lacrosse season?
4 professional sports players? 4 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 5 question. Lacks foundation.
6 question as lacking foundation. 6 THE WITNESS: No.
7 THE WITNESS: No. I think we see similar 7 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
8 aggression in almost all sports. 8 Q. Or soccer season?
9 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 9 MR. GOLDFEIN: Same objection.
10 Q. Okay. The fighting is penalized 10 THE WITNESS: No.
11 differently in other sports than it is in hockey, 11 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
12 correct? 12 Q. So if the number of fights in an NHL
13 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 13 season is astronomically larger than the number of
14 question. 14 fights in another professional sports season, what
15 THE WITNESS: I object to that. 15 would you attribute that to?
16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Lacking foundation. 16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
17 THE WITNESS: That's not true. 17 question.
18 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 18 THE WITNESS: It's theoretical. I don't
19 Q. No? 19 know.
20 A. No. Basketball, soccer, there's -- 20 The following was marked for Identification:
21 there's a number of sports that are similarly -- 21 EXH. 16 memo dated April 26, 1991, to Harry
22 maybe lacks the definition that we've gotten in 22 Sinden from Brian O'Neill,
23 this sport, but some are ejected from the game, 23 with attachment
24 some are sat out, some -- some play short. 24 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
25 Q. So, in your opinion, the safety valve 25 Q. I'm showing you what I've had marked as

612.338.3376
Page 198 Page 200

1 Exhibit 16 to your deposition, a memo or a fax from 1 (A luncheon recess was taken at 12:43 p.m.)
2 Brian O'Neill, executive vice president of the 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record. The
3 National Hockey League, to Harry Sinden of the 3 time is 1319.
4 Boston Bruins dated April 26, 1991, where he 4 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
5 encloses a copy -- Mr. O'Neill encloses a copy of 5 Q. All right. Back from lunch,
6 his decision following his hearing with Verbeek. 6 Mr. Jacobs.
7 Do you know Mr. O'Neill? 7 A. Yes, sir.
8 A. I know who he was. I don't know what 8 Q. You understand you're still under oath?
9 he's doing now. 9 A. Yes, I am. Thank you.
10 Q. Okay. And Mr. Sinden was in what role 10 Q. Fantastic.
11 with the Boston Bruins? 11 Now, we spent a good deal of time talking
12 A. He was president and general manager. 12 about fighting in the NHL, and one thing we touched
13 Q. And in his cover fax to -- cover letter 13 on earlier but I want to talk about a little bit
14 to Mr. Sinden, he says: Enclosed is a copy of my 14 more is the question of whether the NHL actually
15 decision following my hearing with Verbeek. First 15 sells its product in part based upon the fighting
16 of all, let me say I know that you will not agree 16 that goes on in the league.
17 with my findings or the resulting penalty. Having 17 Do you believe that in the 40 years that
18 said that, there is no doubt that we at least agree 18 you've been in the league that that has taken
19 on the fact that this type of conduct must be dealt 19 place?
20 with more severely. You believe, I'm sure, that 20 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
21 current Rule 34A gives all the latitude necessary, 21 question.
22 whereas I am guided by a long-standing policy of 22 THE WITNESS: What is "that"?
23 tolerance to fisticuffs. Perhaps for this reason 23 MR. DAVIDSON: That the league has sold its
24 I've suspended players for using their fists on 24 product in part with the fighting that goes on
25 only three occasions over the past 14 years. In 25 during games.
Page 199 Page 201

1 each of those situations, no altercation was in 1 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
2 progress, and in two of the situations, very 2 question.
3 serious injuries resulted. If you wish to discuss 3 THE WITNESS: I think that the physicalness
4 this further, please call me. 4 of the game manifests itself sometimes in the form
5 My first question is: Did you ever see this 5 of fighting. I also believe that there is clearly
6 letter? 6 a body of people that look at that and enjoy that.
7 A. Letter, no. 7 I think pure hockey fans think that's a
8 Q. Mr. Sinden wouldn't have shared this 8 distraction.
9 with you? 9 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
10 A. He may have told me the results. 10 Q. Has the NHL as a business ever promoted
11 Q. Okay. Would he have talked to you 11 itself through -- has the NHL -- has the NHL as a
12 about Mr. O'Neill's statements about a 12 business ever promoted itself through the fighting
13 long-standing policy of tolerance to fisticuffs? 13 that goes on in the league to those fans that are
14 A. I don't think he would have mentioned 14 interested in that aspect of the game?
15 that to me, no. 15 A. I don't think intentionally they've
16 Q. Does that surprise you? 16 ever done that. I don't think it was --
17 A. Yeah, yes, it does. 17 The following was marked for Identification:
18 Q. Do you know what long-standing policy 18 EXH. 17 news article
19 of tolerance to fisticuffs Mr. O'Neill is referring 19 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
20 to? 20 Q. I show you what has been marked as
21 A. No. Okay. 21 Exhibit 17 to your deposition. It's a news article
22 Q. Yeah. 22 produced by the NHL.
23 (Discussion off the record.) 23 A. Now, excuse me. You said they produced
24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record. The time 24 this?
25 is 12:43. 25 Q. There's a stamp at the bottom, number

612.338.3376
Page 202 Page 204

1 at the bottom. 1 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
2 A. NHL. 2 question.
3 Q. That means that it came from the NHL. 3 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I've never seen
4 A. Oh, this came from the NHL. 4 this. I've never heard it.
5 Q. Right. It came from their documents. 5 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
6 A. But they did not -- I guess they copied 6 Q. And, again, Mr. Campbell in this
7 it an article. 7 article says we tolerate it, so he's said that
8 Q. Right. 8 multiple times now.
9 A. Okay. 9 A. Yes, he has.
10 Q. That's -- that would be my assumption 10 Q. How long was Mr. Campbell the president
11 as well. 11 of the league?
12 A. Yes. 12 A. Refers to him being since 1946, so this
13 Q. It's an article that -- the handwriting 13 would be 30 years at this point, wouldn't it be?
14 date of March 3rd, 1975. The type -- 14 Q. Yeah. And when did he cease being the
15 MR. GOLDFEIN: Is that your writing? 15 president?
16 MR. DAVIDSON: No. That was on the 16 A. I don't remember him being president
17 document. 17 when I was -- came in so -- and I remember John
18 MR. GOLDFEIN: Okay. Do you know what 18 Ziegler being there, so I -- Clarence may have been
19 newspaper this came from? 19 there, but I don't think he was in the leadership
20 MR. DAVIDSON: You'd have to ask whoever 20 capacity when I came in.
21 pulled it from the NHL archives. 21 Q. Okay.
22 MR. GOLDFEIN: Okay. 22 A. He may have been tolerated then.
23 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 23 Q. Is the decision whether to outright ban
24 Q. And the title of the document says 24 fighting or punish it more severely a business
25 Campbell Admits NHL Sells Violent Hockey. The 25 decision for the board of governors, or is it a
Page 203 Page 205

1 bottom of the first column Mr. Campbell is quoted 1 safety decision?
2 as saying, quote, I think the players play with 2 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
3 fantastic restraint, he said in a television 3 question.
4 program, Under Attack, taped at McMaster 4 THE WITNESS: I believe that the -- that the
5 University. 5 way we now have -- I mean, the physicalness of the
6 Replying to a barrage of questions, 6 game, we're doing everything to keep the
7 Campbell, a former Nuremberg war crimes prosecutor, 7 physicalness of the game as it has been. It's
8 maintained that fighting is a, quote, 8 been -- it's part of the game itself, as it is in
9 well-established safety valve for players against 9 other sports, but especially in hockey, the contact
10 the types of violence which would be much more 10 is constant. You're skating alongside somebody.
11 vicious and damaging in their consequences. He 11 You're defending a position. There's so much
12 goes on to say, quote. Insofar as it is part of 12 physicality with regard to the game that ourselves
13 the show, certainly we sell it, he said. We do not 13 and the Players' Association, meaning the ownership
14 promote it. We tolerate it. We bring it under 14 and the Players' Association and the management,
15 disciplinary control which we believe satisfies the 15 recognize these factors.
16 public? 16 And to the extent that it becomes physical
17 Have you ever read this article before? 17 and somebody may push and then exceed into what,
18 A. No, no. 18 quote/unquote, fighting, we don't want to stop that
19 Q. If this quoted Mr. Campbell 19 physicality. We want to keep the physicality in
20 accurately -- 20 place. We want to eliminate as much of the -- of
21 A. I don't know. 21 the fighting, but we as a -- at a league level and
22 Q. -- would you -- that's what I'm asking. 22 at an ownership level want to eliminate the stage
23 If it -- assuming that it quoted Mr. Campbell 23 fighting.
24 accurately, in 1975 when you came into the league, 24 What you saw in Lucic is a stage fight.
25 was the NHL selling fighting as part of the show? 25 It's not something that we're in favor of. We

612.338.3376
Page 206 Page 208

1 don't have agreement from the players on this, and 1 evaluation made as to, you know, what they like,
2 so that has impeded the stage fighting to narrow 2 what people like and dislike, and it's interesting.
3 that down so -- and as you said, it's harmful and 3 It's -- there's a whole lot of people that would
4 it doesn't serve any purpose. 4 like to see fighting handled differently than we
5 So I think -- I think there is an aspect of 5 are today, either following your view for greater
6 physicality of the game as appreciated by -- first 6 discipline, and there's a whole body that wants
7 by the players and by ownership, but next by the 7 less discipline on it. But between ourselves and
8 people that are aware of how the game is played, 8 the players, the discipline that exists today is
9 the sophisticated, and I put that in quotes, 9 considered to be the -- is considered to be the
10 sophisticated fan like yourself would have been. 10 right -- right amount of control.
11 You've played the game. You understand it. You 11 Q. So you admit, though, that you've
12 understand where the physicality comes in, and you 12 conducted market surveys to determine whether
13 like to see a good check. You like to see somebody 13 fighting --
14 cut somebody off or take them off a puck and things 14 A. I don't think the market surveys were
15 like that. That's all part of the game. And to 15 so much that, but in asking for reactions you'll
16 the extent it becomes physical or irritant, it -- 16 hear that sometimes brought up, I didn't like that
17 it plays a role in it. 17 or I liked that sort of a thing. There's as much
18 Q. So fighting plays a role in the game? 18 on one side as the other. There's no clear cut.
19 A. No. Fighting is a result of that, but 19 Q. Has the NHL ever conducted a survey to
20 mostly a result of frustration on the ice. 20 determine whether -- how player health is impacted
21 Q. So why aren't there more fights in -- 21 by the level of fighting in the game?
22 in football or basketball? Don't those players get 22 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
23 frustrated? 23 question.
24 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 24 THE WITNESS: I can't answer that.
Page 207 Page 209

1 THE WITNESS: If you're watching the same 1 Q. Has the NHL ever determined how
2 game I am, there's a lot of fighting in football, a 2 fighting impacts TV viewership and game attendance?
3 lot. 3 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
5 Q. Fist fighting like you see in hockey? 5 THE WITNESS: I don't think -- I don't know
6 A. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. What 6 if we have. I don't think so.
7 you're not seeing is the number of fights that get 7 The following was marked for Identification:
8 broken up and never get disciplined, one after 8 EXH. 18 document entitled NHL Fan Attitude
9 another. Watch the game. 9 Study, 20 pages
10 Q. I've been watching for many, many 10 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
11 years. 11 Q. 18. Mr. Jacobs, I'm showing you what
12 A. Me, too. 12 has been marked Exhibit 18 to your deposition, a
13 Q. And I've never seen fighting like I see 13 document entitled Fan Attitude Study dated March 6,
14 in the NHL. 14 2009, by a company called Penn, Schoen,
15 A. You better watch the same game that I 15 S-C-H-O-E-N, & Berland Associates, Inc.
16 am, because it happens. In basketball it happens. 16 Have you ever seen this document before?
17 Usually in football you will see them breaking up 17 A. I don't know. I don't see it -- it
18 fights and stepping aside and pushing them and 18 doesn't -- I don't recognize it right now.
19 calming them down. And you see that, too, in 19 Q. Do you know what -- having not seen it
20 hockey, but not as much. 20 before, you, therefore, don't know what purpose
21 Q. Is the decision -- has the NHL ever 21 this document served?
22 conducted a market survey to determine whether the 22 A. NHL fan attitude study.
23 brand would be harmed by the removal of fighting 23 Q. Do you know what they were studying?
24 from the game? 24 A. The attitude.
25 A. There have been from time to time an 25 Q. Of?

612.338.3376
Page 210 Page 212

1 A. Fans. 1 A. Okay. Is that it?
2 Q. I asked that on purpose. 2 Q. Yes.
3 A. I know you did. 3 A. Okay.
4 Q. I knew I'd get the wise-ass answer. 4 Q. Did you ever talk to Brendan Shanahan
5 MR. GOLDFEIN: I'll object retrospectively 5 about his views on fighting?
6 and move to strike as lacking foundation. 6 A. I don't think so. I don't think so.
7 MR. DAVIDSON: You got it. 7 Q. Is Mr. Shanahan somebody whose opinions
8 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 8 and views you respect?
9 Q. If you could flip to page 14. 9 A. Yes.
10 A. Boy, there's a lot of fighting. 10 Q. Why is that?
11 Q. Pages 14 through 20 -- I'm sorry, pages 11 A. Because he's been a player for many
12 14 through 19, there's a chart showing the impact 12 years. He's come up through the game. He
13 of eliminating fighting on TV viewership, on game 13 understands the game and the players, and he's got
14 attendance, and on visits -- 14 a good balance.
15 A. Merchandise purchases. 15 Q. Do you know whether he wants to get rid
16 Q. The website, and merchandise 16 of fighting completely?
17 purchasing. Do you see that? 17 A. No, I don't.
18 A. Yes. 18 The following was marked for Identification:
19 Q. Okay. And all of those affect the 19 EXH. 19 e-mails
20 bottom line of the NHL and the owners, correct? 20 MR. GOLDFEIN: This is 19?
21 A. And players. 21 MR. DAVIDSON: Yes, sir.
22 Q. How so? 22 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
23 A. Players get a percentage of everything. 23 Q. If you want to take a moment to read
24 Q. TV viewership, too? 24 Exhibit 19, which is an e-mail from -- the bottom
25 A. Yeah. 25 one is an e-mail from Brendan Shanahan to
Page 211 Page 213

1 Q. Okay. 1 Mr. Bettman, Mr. Daly, and Mr. Campbell dated
2 A. 50 percent. 2 September 2nd, 2011.
3 Q. And game attendance, players get -- 3 A. Can you position me on what this is
4 A. 50 percent. 4 about?
5 Q. Visits to the nhl.com website? 5 Q. Sure. Do you know what happened three
6 A. 50 percent. 6 days before Mr. Shanahan sent this e-mail to Mr. --
7 MR. GOLDFEIN: At this time it was more than 7 A. No.
8 50. 8 Q. A player by the name of Wade Belak
9 THE WITNESS: Yeah, it was a little more 9 committed suicide. You're familiar with that
10 than that back in that -- '59. 10 incident?
11 MR. GOLDFEIN: March 6, 2009. 11 A. I do know that he committed suicide.
12 THE WITNESS: 2009, I should say. 12 Q. Okay. Do you recall any of the --
13 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 13 MR. GOLDFEIN: Actually, I'm going to object
14 Q. So there was, in fact, a study of -- 14 to the form of the question as lacking foundation
15 A. All these things. 15 and move to strike the question and the answer.
16 Q. -- fan reaction to what would happen -- 16 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. On what grounds?
17 or fan attitude on fighting as it relates to TV 17 MR. GOLDFEIN: On the grounds that nobody
18 viewership; is that right? 18 knows whether he committed suicide yet. It hasn't
19 A. That's what it's saying here. 19 been confirmed.
20 Q. Okay. 20 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay.
21 A. Isn't it? 21 MR. GOLDFEIN: Do you know it for a fact,
22 Q. Yes. 22 counsel? Do you know it for a fact?
23 A. You just want to put this in evidence 23 MR. DAVIDSON: It's my understanding.
24 or what? 24 MR. GOLDFEIN: It's your understanding, but
25 Q. Sure. 25 you need to know things for a fact when you ask

612.338.3376
Page 214 Page 216

1 questions. 1 Mr. Bettman, Mr. Daly, and Mr. Campbell saying that
2 MR. DAVIDSON: Well, it's my understanding 2 he believes it's time to change the way the league
3 that that is a fact. 3 treats fighting and suggests potentially if you
4 MR. GOLDFEIN: Okay. I don't think it's 4 fight, you get kicked out.
5 known yet whether he committed suicide, which is an 5 A. I don't think that says that.
6 intentional act, or something happened accidentally 6 Q. What do you think it says?
7 to him. So I'll object to the form of the 7 A. It -- it starts here, the feeder league
8 question. Unless you know and you can show -- 8 of college and European have already gone that
9 MR. DAVIDSON: I believe that is a fact. 9 route. It's really only Canadian hockey that
10 MR. GOLDFEIN: Unless you know and you can 10 resisted. And that was -- that was the top
11 confirm that it's a suicide. Anyway, I object to 11 sentence, and that was -- that was -- you just
12 the form of the question and move to strike. 12 pointed out to me that was by Bill Daly to Brendan
13 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 13 Shanahan.
14 Q. Okay. Was there -- after Mr. Belak 14 Underneath here when it says from Brendan
15 passed away, do you recall any discussions among -- 15 Shanahan to Gary Bettman, we all know that we've
16 well, did you have any discussions with anybody 16 talked about a time where we impose stiffer
17 about Mr. Belak's death? 17 penalties for fighting, so I wouldn't see this so
18 A. I don't think so. 18 much as reactionary but more opportunistic that the
19 Q. How about when a player by the name of 19 timing is right to get the support to finally say
20 Rick Rypien passed away? 20 no.
21 A. No. 21 Regardless of what the specific reasons are
22 Q. How about when Derek Boogaard died of 22 that drove Wade to do this, I think it simply goes
23 an overdose? 23 back to concussions and brain injuries. This
24 MR. GOLDFEIN: I'm going to object to that 24 specific role is also becoming more specialized and
25 question on the grounds that to the extent you've 25 more pressurized. Some former enforcers have
Page 215 Page 217

1 had discussions with counsel about Mr. Boogaard's 1 reached out to me and offered their support to us.
2 passing in connection with the lawsuit that's 2 They're all scared. Fighting, like slashing, is
3 pending against the NHL, those conversations might 3 not legal. There is a penalty. Unlike fighting,
4 be privileged and you should not answer. 4 however, teams don't employ slashers for the simple
5 Otherwise, you can answer the question. 5 role. We could work out the details, but maybe
6 THE WITNESS: I don't think I've had any 6 it's time to propose increasing the penalty for
7 conversation. 7 fighting. If you fight, you get kicked out. It's
8 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 8 only a matter of time before the CHL and other
9 Q. So when these three players passed away 9 feeder leagues do it. Let's be first.
10 in a few-month time span, did -- is it your 10 Q. And then Mr. Daly responds to
11 recollection that you didn't have any discussions 11 Mr. Shanahan, says the feeder leagues of College
12 with anybody other than lawyers about those 12 and European have already gone that route.
13 tragedies? 13 A. Yeah.
14 A. I don't believe so. 14 Q. So what Mr. Shanahan is saying here is
15 Q. Okay. Were you -- 15 that why don't we go that route and impose
16 A. Just an aside. 16 increased penalties for fighting. If you fight,
17 Q. Please. 17 you get kicked out. Let's be first. That's still
18 A. The feeder leagues of colleges and 18 not the case today, five years later, right?
19 Europeans have already gone that route. It's 19 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
20 really only Canadian hockey that resisted. And 20 question.
21 that was Brendan Shanahan to Gary, and then comes 21 THE WITNESS: Say again?
22 this -- does this really apply, this? I mean, this 22 MR. GOLDFEIN: I'm just putting an objection
23 is why -- I couldn't find the connection. 23 on the record.
24 Q. Well, that's Mr. Daly responding to 24 THE WITNESS: I think that when Brendan
25 Mr. Shanahan. The e-mail below is Mr. Shanahan to 25 Shanahan's here, you should ask Brendan about where

612.338.3376
Page 218 Page 220

1 he was going in the context of what was going on 1 to object to your asking this question.
2 then. I think to talk about the Europeans in 2 I know I can't stop you from asking the
3 this -- in our -- we play on different size ice 3 question, but I'll move to strike in advance,
4 surfaces, so I think it's a different game, and the 4 because the question is inappropriate. I'll move
5 fact that our ice surface is smaller and that we 5 to strike your earlier deposition testimony
6 have more physical contact because of that, it goes 6 about -- the earlier deposition testimony on that
7 to the way we play this game. 7 exhibit, because now the way you're using the
8 When we've tried to play this game in their 8 testimony earlier, which I objected to as to form,
9 form, it wasn't as well received in this country, 9 is just -- is just multiplying and accumulating the
10 and we -- so we've stuck with our, what is it, 200 10 nature of the -- of the objection -- nature of my
11 by 80 I think we are right now, and putting on a 11 objection to the testimony.
12 bigger piece of ice, it's not as good a game, and 12 MR. DAVIDSON: Is that a form objection?
13 it isn't embraced by the American public the way it 13 MR. GOLDFEIN: Yes.
14 is there. 14 MR. DAVIDSON: It's a little bit more
15 So there are a series of things that are 15 long-winded than a form objection.
16 different in this, but to say that we're not -- 16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Well, I think it's a form
17 that we're not -- again, it comes to are we 17 objection. You need the opportunity, if you want
18 penalizing hockey enough. Brendan's saying these 18 to clean the record up, you can clean the record up
19 guys are dead, maybe they played a role in this, 19 but --
20 let's increase our penalty. Then we turned around 20 MR. DAVIDSON: I don't think I need to.
21 and we say, okay, we go to the Players' 21 MR. GOLDFEIN: Well, that's up to you.
22 Association, we say, Brendan's doing -- Brendan's 22 MR. DAVIDSON: I know, and that's why --
23 got a lot of voice, got a lot of voice with the 23 MR. GOLDFEIN: That's why we have form
24 players, got a lot of voice with the owners. 24 objections, so that you know the basis in advance
25 So you've got a guy with a lot of sway in 25 to reconsider the way you've conducted the
Page 219 Page 221

1 here, but for whatever reason, it hasn't penetrated 1 deposition.
2 that level. The competition committee isn't coming 2 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
3 back with that recommendation. The players aren't 3 Q. Do you know -- but you have not spoken
4 coming back with that recommendation. So this is 4 with Mr. Shanahan about his views on fighting?
5 not a unilateral decision that Jerry Jacobs can 5 A. No.
6 make, and it's not one that Jerry Jacobs and its 29 6 Q. Okay. According to Mr. Shanahan's
7 partners can make. 7 e-mail, he says: Some former enforcers have
8 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 8 reached out to me and offered their support to us.
9 Q. According to one of the first exhibits 9 They're all scared.
10 we discussed, maybe it was the first one or the 10 Do you know what they would have to be
11 second one, Mr. Daly said this is something that 11 scared about?
12 the board can unilaterally do. 12 A. No.
13 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 13 Q. No?
14 question. 14 A. No.
15 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 15 Q. According to Mr. Shanahan, he says: I
16 Q. So if Mr. Daly is right in that sense, 16 think what drove Wade to do this goes back to
17 what's stopping the league from taking 17 concussions and brain injuries.
18 Mr. Shanahan's recommendation and moving forward 18 Do you have any reason to believe
19 with it? 19 differently?
20 MR. GOLDFEIN: Now I'm going to object to 20 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
21 the form of the question, because when you 21 question.
22 questioned the witness originally on the Daly 22 THE WITNESS: Yeah. He's not -- he's not
23 e-mail, you did -- you read one sentence. You did 23 qualified to make that kind of evaluation.
24 not read the rest of the e-mail into the record 24 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
25 which is material to this question, and I'm going 25 Q. And you're not either, right?

612.338.3376
Page 222 Page 224

1 A. That's correct. 1 on whether head hits, intentional or unintentional,
2 Q. Okay. 2 should be banned completely from the league?
3 A. Nor you. 3 A. Head hits?
4 Q. Right. So if they found CTE in Wade's 4 Q. Yes.
5 brain -- 5 A. Intentional head hits?
6 A. It doesn't tell you anything, does it? 6 Q. Or unintentional.
7 We don't know what CTE is. 7 A. I know what their view is on
8 Q. Well, you don't know what CTE is, but 8 intentional, because that's collectively the
9 there are a lot -- 9 league's position, and they enjoined that, and I
10 A. You don't. 10 think it was unanimous they agreed upon
11 Q. No, but there are a lot of smart people 11 unintentional. I think there -- I believe theirs
12 that -- 12 is what everybody else's is, that incidental head
13 A. And they don't either, they don't 13 hits are part of the game.
14 either. 14 The following was marked for Identification:
15 Q. So it's your view that the neurologists 15 EXH. 20 e-mails, two pages
16 and neurosurgeons who have been studying CTE from 16 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
17 Dr. Omalu to Dr. Cantu to Dr. Stern and Dr. McKee, 17
18 that they don't know what CTE is to this day? 18
19 A. That's correct. They have -- but they 19
20 are on the road to try and determine it. I hope 20
21 they do. 21
22 Q. And I think they would disagree 22
23 wholeheartedly with what you just said. 23
24 MR. GOLDFEIN: Inappropriate comment. 24
25 You're arguing with the witness. We'll leave that 25
Page 223 Page 225

1 for the experts in the case. 1
3 Q. Are there any owners who do want to get 3
4 rid of fighting altogether in the league? 4
5 A. I don't know. 5
6 Q. Have you ever -- who's Tom Cigarran? 6
7 A. Tom Cigarran, he represents national. 7
8 Q. Is he one of the owners of the 8
9 Predators? 9
10 A. He represents -- I don't know if he's 10
11 an owner, but he represents them. I don't know -- 11
12 their ownership is held differently than ours is. 12
13 It's not clear-cut to me. 13
14 Q. And what about Jeff Molson? Who is he? 14
15 A. Jeff Molson is Jeff Molson, and he's in 15
16 Montreal. He represents Montreal. 16
17 Q. Have you ever spoken with them about 17
18 the issue of fighting -- 18
19 A. No. 19
20 Q. -- one on one? 20
21 A. No. 21
22 Q. Have you ever spoken with either of 22
23 them about the issue of head hits in general? 23
24 A. No, I haven't. 24
25 Q. So you do not know what their views are 25

612.338.3376
Page 226 Page 228

1 1 weight of the day, we would probably adjust the
2 Have you ever had a discussion with 2 league, but I don't think that you can take
3 Mr. Cigarran? 3 fighting out of the game and have the same sport.
4 A. No. 4 Q. Or same goes for inadvertent hits to
5 Q. Has Mr. Cigarran ever brought up that 5 the head?
6 issue at owners meetings? 6 A. If in some way or another --
7 A. I don't have a recollection of it. 7 inadvertent hits to the head happens, yes.
8 Q. He may have? 8 Q. Okay. And if you take that out of the
9 A. There's 30 teams represented there. 9 sport, you will materially change the game?
10 There's two people to every team, so there's 60 10 A. I think that if you take the physical
11 people, and all of them have a license to bring up. 11 play away from the sport, it will change the game.
12 He is one of 30, and he is, like anybody else, 12 Q. Do you know that would happen?
13 welcome to his opinion, but there are 30 opinions 13 A. Do you know that will happen? Well, we
14 out there. 14 haven't taken the physical play out of the game, so
15 Q. Do you disagree with his opinion? 15 we are of a strong opinion collectively that it
16 A. Yeah, I do. 16 would change.
17 Q. Why is that? 17 Q. Based on what --
18 A. I believe that -- I believe that in a 18 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection.
19 contact sport like this, the incidental contact is 19 MR. DAVIDSON: -- examples do you believe
20 part of the game, and I think that you would have 20 that if you ban both intentional and unintentional
21 to dramatically change the way it's played. 21 hits to the head, that the game will be materially
22 Q. And how does the fact that the NHL is 22 changed?
23 now the last league -- 23 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
24 A. No. 24 question.
25 Q. -- to not -- 25 THE WITNESS: I don't know what the question
Page 227 Page 229

1 A. Excuse me. 1 is.
2 Q. Sure. 2 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
3 A. You're saying that's a fact. 3 Q. Based on what evidence do you have that
4 Q. Oh, I'm -- okay. 4 banning both intentional and unintentional hits to
5 A. You're saying that's what he said. 5 the head would materially change the game?
6 Q. Correct. 6 MR. GOLDFEIN: I object to the form of the
7 A. That's not -- but you're not saying 7 question. Lacks foundation. Misleading and
8 it's a fact. You're saying that's what he said. 8 imprecise.
9 Let me correct you, in other words. 9 THE WITNESS: The -- the physical aspect of
10 Q. Sure. And what leagues, hockey 10 hockey is part of the game. If you agree, which I
11 leagues, are you aware of that do not punish all 11 do, that the physical part of the game is part of
12 hits to the head? 12 the game and if you eliminate there may be a casual
13 A. I'm not. I'm not. But I'm saying -- 13 or unintentional contact with the head on certain
14 if you're saying that -- first, Mr. Cigarran may be 14 occasions, then I think you eliminate then the
15 one of the most recent people to join the league in 15 physical play. It's a cause and effect.
16 an ownership position than the rest, and he sees 16 So once you eliminate the physical play, you
17 this. He hasn't had the experience of making this 17 dramatically, I believe, change the game. Now,
18 comment, and I -- I do not know if it is the only 18 whether or not it sells or not is -- is a question
19 hockey league to do it, but I'm accepting what 19 I can't answer.
20 you're saying. 20 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
21 I respect his opinion, but I -- believe me, 21 Q. But that would be important to you,
22 this has been brought up. This will be at the 22 whether it sells or not, as an owner?
23 competition committee. They will consider it, and 23 A. It's whether or not the game can
24 they have considered judgment. He will have 24 sustain itself, not just as an owner but a player.
25 representation there, and if this carries the 25 Q. But you don't have any evidence to

612.338.3376
Page 230 Page 232

1 suggest that of the 50,000 or so hits that take 1 question.
2 place in an NHL season, that removing hits to the 2 THE WITNESS: Let me -- let me put it
3 head would alter or remove those hits? 3 another way, I think. You're saying that we either
4 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 4 add or deny medical awareness to players based on
5 question. That question is completely misleading. 5 who they are? Is that what you're saying?
6 If you can understand it, you can answer. 6 MR. DAVIDSON: And whether they're in the
7 THE WITNESS: I don't remember what you 7 playoffs, yes. That's my question.
8 said. 8 THE WITNESS: I do not believe that to be
9 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 9 the case.
10 Q. You don't have any evidence that 10 The following was marked for Identification:
11 suggests that removing hits to the head completely 11 EXH. 21 article from the Toronto Star,
12 from the game would remove the physicality of the 12 five pages
13 game? 13 MR. GOLDFEIN: Is this marked as a --
14 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 14 pre-marked as an exhibit?
15 question. 15 MR. DAVIDSON: It was.
16 THE WITNESS: I do not believe that you can 16 MR. GOLDFEIN: In your list that you gave
17 have a physical game without the casual impact 17 us?
18 involving the head on a player. They will bump 18 MR. DAVIDSON: Yeah. It's listed under --
19 them. They will slide by them. You would greatly 19 it's listed on the non-Bates-stamped note.
20 change the physicality of the game if you wanted to 20 MR. GOLDFEIN: Okay.
21 eliminate that. I do not believe that you can take 21 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
22 the physicality out of the game. 22 Q. Mr. Jacobs, I'm showing you what has
23 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 23 been marked Exhibit 21 to your deposition. It's an
24 Q. That's an assumption on your part? 24 article from the Star, the Toronto Star. Are you
25 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 25 familiar with that newspaper?
Page 231 Page 233

1 question as argumentative. 1 A. I -- yes.
2 MR. DAVIDSON: It's not argumentative. It's 2 Q. And it's -- the article is dated
3 a question. 3 December 24th, 2007, and it's entitled Players Put
4 THE WITNESS: That is an assumption on my 4 Team Above Health. Do you see that?
5 part. 5 A. I see -- I see it's there.
6 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 6 Q. Okay. If you could flip to the second
7 Q. Do you believe that players are unable 7 page, there's some quotes from Dr. Echemendia that
8 to adapt to new rule changes? 8 I want to talk to you about. Dr. Echemendia, we
9 A. They adapt every day. 9 spoke earlier, was the head of the NHL's
10 Q. So why couldn't they adapt to a change 10 neuropsychological testing program.
11 in the rules that bans hits to the head? 11 A. Okay.
12 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection to the form of the 12 Q. He's also the cochair of the NHL-NHLPA
13 question. Asked and answered. 13 Concussion Working Group, do you remember that?
14 THE WITNESS: I think I've already answered 14 A. Yes, I do.
15 that. 15 Q. And he's spoken at board of governors
16 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 16 meetings about concussions, correct?
17 Q. Is it true that the NHL treats -- the 17 A. Yes.
18 way the NHL treats concussions depends on who the 18 Q. And he's somebody who -- whose opinion
19 player is and what game is being played? 19 you value when it comes to concussions, correct?
20 A. I don't understand what you said. 20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Does the NHL have the view that whether 21 Q. And according to this article, it says
22 a game is a playoff game or not or whether a player 22 about four paragraphs from the top: The head of
23 is a star player or not will impact how a 23 the NHL's neuropsychological testing program says
24 concussion is treated? 24 the general medical consensus is that the players
25 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 25 should be kept out of the lineup until they're

612.338.3376
Page 234 Page 236

1 symptom free, dash, unless it's the playoffs. 1 in the context of the way you've asked the question
2 MR. GOLDFEIN: That's not in quotes, 2 and misled the witness on what Dr. Echemendia has
3 counsel. 3 said in response to players saying that they want
4 MR. DAVIDSON: I know. 4 to play.
5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Well, don't read it as if it 5 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
6 is in quotes. 6 Q. Mr. Jacobs, can you explain why --
7 MR. DAVIDSON: I didn't say -- 7 MR. GOLDFEIN: I suggest you read the
8 MR. GOLDFEIN: The author of the article. 8 article.
9 MR. DAVIDSON: I did not say it was in 9 THE WITNESS: Okay. Do you want me to go
10 quotes. I never said the word quotes. 10 back to the beginning of it?
11 THE WITNESS: It was misleading. 11 MR. GOLDFEIN: Yes.
12 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 12 THE WITNESS: Because the first part was
13 Q. All right. Well, I'm getting to the 13 important.
14 quote. Then Dr. Echemendia is quoted. Quote, it's 14 MR. GOLDFEIN: And, again, if you want to
15 not a simple decision of do you have symptoms or 15 clean up the record you're free to do so, but for
16 don't you have symptoms, end quote, said 16 the record, the story that leads off with a player
17 Dr. Echemendia. Quote, there are a lot of other 17 who's saying "I don't totally tell my team what the
18 factors that come into play, dash, who's the 18 problem is and I tell them I want to go back in to
19 player, what team are you playing, what game is 19 play," and Echemendia is making the comment that in
20 this. All of those factors do come into play, end 20 response to what the players are saying, it's a
21 quote. Echemendia said his views -- he views any 21 cost/benefit analysis, so the questioning is
22 return to play decision as, quote, a combination of 22 entirely misleading to the witness.
23 risk/benefit analysis. He goes on to say, quote, 23 THE WITNESS: Dr. Echemendia has been saying
24 for example, a player who gets hurt in the first 24 to this that this is the player's reaction to his
25 game of the season may have a different 25 wanting to get back and play in the playoff game
Page 235 Page 237

1 risk/benefit ratio than the final game of the 1 where he -- during a regular league game he may
2 Stanley Cup, end quote, said Echemendia, president 2 pull himself out. The evaluation of the condition
3 elect of the National Academy of Neuropsychology. 3 of each player involves both sides: The player's
4 Quote, that's for them to think through. These are 4 reaction to the medical advice. If a guy says, I
5 competent people. They're adults. 5 got hit in the head and I got pain, that's one
6 Had you ever read that before? 6 thing. If he says, I didn't get hit in the head
7 A. No. 7 and I'm fine, the doctor has to take that into
8 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 8 consideration.
9 question, and in context. 9 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
10 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 10 Q. You don't know what happens to a
11 Q. Do you believe that there should be a 11 player's brain after it gets concussed, do you?
12 risk/benefit analysis done when an NHL player 12 A. Do I know what happened to a player's
13 suffers a concussion? 13 brain when he gets concussed?
14 A. I don't know what he's talking about. 14 Q. Right.
16 question. 16 question. He's not competent to answer that
17 MR. DAVIDSON: Can you explain why -- 17 question.
18 MR. GOLDFEIN: Excuse me one minute. I want 18 THE WITNESS: I'm really not competent to
19 to take a second and read this. 19 answer that.
20 All right. I'm going to object to your -- 20 MR. DAVIDSON: Then that's the answer.
21 the question as to form and move to strike the 21 MR. GOLDFEIN: And neither are you. Are we
22 question and the answer when we get to the judge 22 done with this exhibit?
23 over this. 23 MR. DAVIDSON: Yes.
24 MR. DAVIDSON: That's fine. 24 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
25 MR. GOLDFEIN: I think she'll understand why 25 Q. So in your view, the NHL would never

612.338.3376
Page 238 Page 240

1 take into consideration the fact that it's a 1 Q. We all sit around and talk and talk and
2 playoff game in determining whether a player who 2 talk about concussion management. Then it's the
3 was obviously concussed should be treated one way 3 playoffs. Someone suffers an obvious loss of
4 or the other? 4 consciousness, is back playing in less than 48
5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 5 hours. The same Chicago player was hit hard again
6 question. 6 today and was unable to continue in the game.
7 THE WITNESS: I think I answered that in the 7 Another example of situational ethics. Our only
8 first sentence or the first time through. I 8 job is to protect the players from harm, including
9 indicated I did not believe that there was a 9 when the player is, quote/unquote, clearing himself
10 differentiation made denying service or denying 10 to play. We must be their advocate regardless of
11 medical treatment to somebody because of who he is 11 what the coach or general manager thinks.
12 or when the game was, either playoff or 12 Have you ever heard of that situation?
13 non-playoff. 13 A. No. This is the first time I've seen
14 The following was marked for Identification: 14 it.
15 EXH. 22 e-mail chain, two pages 15 Q. Have you ever heard of a situation
16 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 16 where a player loses consciousness and is back
17 Q. Let me show you what I've marked as 17 playing in less than 48 hours because it's the
18 Exhibit 22 to your deposition. Once you've had an 18 playoffs?
19 opportunity to review it. 19 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
21 Q. You've read this -- this e-mail chain? 21 THE WITNESS: I'm not competent to say what
22 A. I just did. 22 is consciousness or not. I'm not competent to say
23 Q. Okay. 23 that that doctor erred in what he did or not. I
24 A. First time I've seen it. 24 don't know if the guy laid on the ice hoping to
25 Q. First time you've seen it. The e-mail 25 find a penalty. These are -- this is -- this is a
Page 239 Page 241

1 chain is an e-mail forwarded by Dr. Meeuwisse to 1 cumulative evaluation. It's funny how two people
2 Dr. Echemendia, Julie Grand, and Mark Aubry. Do 2 are deciding what happened to a third here without
3 you know who Mark Aubry is? 3 talking to the third guy and finding out what
4 A. No. 4 happened.
5 Q. You don't know whether he's a physician 5 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
6 or a neurologist? 6 Q. Well, do you know they didn't talk to
7 A. No, I don't know. 7 him?
8 Q. Dr. Meeuwisse says in his e-mail 8 A. He didn't. Look at it. He certainly
9 forwarding the e-mail: Hi, Ruben, Julie, and Mark. 9 would tell you if he did.
10 I received this e-mail from one of the team docs. 10 Q. Well, he didn't say either way.
11 I chose to remove his name and have not circulated 11 A. Yeah, he did. He pretty much implied
12 to everyone on the concussion committee because it 12 he didn't. He took a situation and he made it --
13 could be taken as quite inflammatory. However, I 13 he watched it on TV and said, this is what
14 think he is verbalizing what many people think, so 14 happened, or this is what I saw. He said this is a
15 I thought I should pass along the sentiment. 15 situational thing.
16 Cheers, Winne. That's W-I-N-N-E. 16 Q. So what has the -- so to prevent
17 And in the e-mail that this one anonymous 17 something like this happening where it's the
18 team doctor sent to Dr. Meeuwisse, he says the 18 playoffs and they -- and the concussion protocols
19 following, or she, I guess: Winne, I am once again 19 aren't really being followed, what have you as the
20 disappointed in my colleagues in the NHLTPS. 20 chairman of the board of governors done to insure
21 Do you know what that refers to? 21 compliance with the concussion protocols?
22 A. No. 22 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection to the form of the
23 Q. Could it be the NHL Team Physicians 23 question. Assumes facts not in evidence and lacks
24 Society? 24 foundation.
25 A. Could be. 25 THE WITNESS: You just said that it wasn't

612.338.3376
Page 242 Page 244

1 being followed. 1 Q. But as far as compliance goes, do you
2 MR. DAVIDSON: Right. 2 know whether any member of the board of governors
3 THE WITNESS: The rules and -- you say 3 has asked whether the protocols they put in place
4 they're not being followed. And you're -- you're 4 are being complied with?
5 obviously referring to -- do you know the rules 5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
6 weren't followed? 6 question.
7 MR. DAVIDSON: It sure seems like it to me. 7 THE WITNESS: I have not asked if they're
8 MR. GOLDFEIN: Well, I'll object. 8 being complied with. My assumption is it has been.
9 THE WITNESS: That's not -- 9 I think that this would precede me by the -- by the
10 MR. GOLDFEIN: That's argumentative and 10 commissioner.
11 speculative on your part. 11 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
12 THE WITNESS: I can't answer that, I really 12 Q. What would precede you? I'm sorry.
13 can't. 13 A. A hot button like that, saying that we
14 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 14 weren't complying with it.
15 Q. So let's talk generally then. What as 15 Q. I'm sorry, but I'm not following.
16 the chairman of the board of governors are you 16 A. Well, yes, you are.
17 doing to insure that the concussion protocols that 17 Q. No, I'm not. I really am not.
18 were put in place beginning in 2011 are being 18 A. I'm saying that if that question were
19 complied with? 19 put forward, that would be a hot button to the
20 A. I believe that the ethical part of 20 commissioner.
21 medicine plays a role in this. And I believe that 21 Q. Okay. Now I -- now I'm following. So
22 here is a group overlooking it and saying, what's 22 the commissioner, in your view, would be following
23 happening here, and looking into it and determining 23 whether the protocols were being complied with?
24 it. I don't know what the outcome of this was. 24 A. He would be following that somebody
25 Q. Okay. So who at the NHL level is in 25 implied that it wasn't being.
Page 243 Page 245

1 charge of insuring that the concussion protocols 1 Q. Okay. Have you ever seen any data or
2 that were put in place in 2011 are actually being 2 studies done to show the compliance or lack thereof
3 followed? 3 of the protocols since they went into place?
4 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 4 A. No.
5 question. 5 Q. Are your -- are you interested as a
6 THE WITNESS: It's being handled I believe 6 chairman of the board of governors in knowing
7 within the league, within the group that's been set 7 whether the protocols put in place to handle
8 up to do so. The NHLTPS. 8 concussions are being complied with at the team
9 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 9 level?
10 Q. The physicians society? 10 A. Only if they're not being.
11 A. Whatever the group is. I cannot 11 Q. Okay. And who -- if nobody presented
12 identify the individual. I can't tell you who to 12 you with those, how would you know?
13 call to find out if this is being -- being 13 A. It would go through the commissioner.
14 adequately -- but this sort of thing would be a hot 14 He would tell me.
15 button. 15 Q. You would expect the commissioner to
16 Q. Sure. And have you ever asked at any 16 tell you --
17 of your board of governors meetings for an update 17 A. Commissioner would tell me.
18 on whether the concussion protocols are being 18 Q. Okay. As of today, are you aware
19 followed? 19 whether the NHL provides any warnings to its
20 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 20 players about the risk of contracting long-term
21 question. 21 neurodegenerative disease due to repeated head
22 THE WITNESS: I don't -- I can't recall. I 22 trauma?
23 have not asked, and I don't know if it has been -- 23 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
24 it has been spoken to from time to time. 24 question as lacking foundation.
25 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 25 THE WITNESS: Could you tell me what you

612.338.3376
Page 246 Page 248

1 just said? 1 verbiage that you used.
2 MR. DAVIDSON: I can try. 2 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
3 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 Q. And it looks like this was put out by
4 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 4 the NHLPA, the NHL PHATS, which is the trainers,
5 Q. As you sit here today, are you aware of 5 the Professional Hockey --
6 whether the NHL provides any warnings to the NHL 6 MR. GOLDFEIN: Athletic Trainers.
7 players of the possible risk of contracting 7 MR. DAVIDSON: Athletic Trainers Society.
8 neurodegenerative disease due to having been 8 MR. GOLDFEIN: Association.
9 repeatedly hit in the head? 9 MR. DAVIDSON: Association, thank you. And
10 MR. GOLDFEIN: Same objection. 10 the NHLTPS, right?
11 THE WITNESS: I believe that the Players' 11 THE WITNESS: It looks like it's covered
12 Association has the responsibility to the players 12 most of the bases.
13 from their knowledge of -- of -- they participate 13 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
14 in the competition committee and these other 14 Q. Did you see anything in this poster
15 committees that are familiar with that issue, and I 15 about potential long-term brain injury?
16 believe that there's also an amount of published 16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
17 information that gets into -- that's posted in the 17 question.
18 various clubhouses. 18 THE WITNESS: It says to recognize the
19 Q. Like a poster? 19 signs, report the symptoms, and recover completely.
20 A. I believe there is. 20 It's fairly obvious on its face.
21 The following was marked for Identification: 21 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay.
22 EXH. 23 document entitled Concussion 22 The following was marked for Identification:
23 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 23 EXH. 24 document entitled Concussion, A
24 Q. I'm showing you what has been marked 24 Must Read For NFL Players
25 Exhibit 23 to your deposition. Do you recognize 25 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
Page 247 Page 249

1 this document? 1 Q. I show you what's been marked as
2 A. I've seen something like it, yeah. 2 Exhibit 24 to your deposition. Have you ever seen
3 Q. And is this what you believe may be 3 this document before, Mr. Jacobs?
4 posted in locker rooms? 4 A. Yes, I have.
5 A. I believe it is. 5 Q. When was the first time you saw this?
6 Q. Do you know if it's posted in the 6 A. I don't know when was the first time.
7 Bruins locker room? 7 Q. And who put out this -- well, what is
8 A. I believe it is. 8 it? What does it appear to be?
9 Q. How often do you go down to the Bruins 9 A. Well, it says NFL, NFL players, CDC,
10 locker room? 10 NFL Players Society, and it seems to engage --
11 A. A few times a year. 11 MR. GOLDFEIN: Could you date this document,
12 Q. Do you know why this was created? 12 counsel?
13 A. I think to advise and warn the players, 13 MR. DAVIDSON: Can I?
14 giving -- 14 MR. GOLDFEIN: Yeah.
15 Q. Does the -- does this poster provide 15 MR. DAVIDSON: I could not.
16 any warnings to the players about the risk of 16 MR. GOLDFEIN: You don't know if this was
17 contracting a neurodegenerative disease? 17 done recently?
18 A. Perhaps -- 18 MR. DAVIDSON: I do not.
19 Q. Or other brain disease? 19 MR. GOLDFEIN: I would object to the use of
20 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 20 the document unless you can lay a foundation for
21 question. 21 it.
22 THE WITNESS: Here it says concussion, 22 MR. DAVIDSON: My questions don't depend on
23 recognize the signs, and it gives a list. Then it 23 date.
24 said: Report the symptoms to your trainer or 24 MR. GOLDFEIN: I'm sorry, but they do. In
25 doctor and recover completely. It doesn't use that 25 light of -- in light of the NFL litigation and

612.338.3376
Page 250 Page 252

1 their settlement and what may or may not have been 1 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
2 required or their reaction to their litigation, it 2 Q. Do you know whether -- does the NHL
3 certainly does. I object to the use of the 3 recognize that there is a link between repetitive
4 document. 4 head trauma and any long-term brain disease?
5 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. Well, objection noted. 5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
6 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 6 question. Does the NHL recognize?
7 Q. You've seen this before, though, 7 MR. DAVIDSON: Yeah.
8 Mr. Jacobs? 8 THE WITNESS: Could you --
9 A. I've seen it. 9 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
10 Q. Okay. You see on the right side, the 10 Q. Sure. I'll rephrase it. Does the NHL
11 last arrow says: Repetitive brain injury when not 11 acknowledge --
12 managed promptly and properly may cause permanent 12 A. Acknowledge, yeah.
13 damage to your brain. Do you see that? 13 Q. -- that there is a link between
14 A. Yes. 14 repetitive head trauma and any long-term brain
15 Q. Then at the end, at the end under "take 15 disease?
16 care of your brain," the last sentence says: 16 A. I don't know. I don't know. I think
17 Concussions and conditions resulting from repeated 17 it would take our medical segment to tell me that.
18 brain injury can cause your life and your family's 18 Q. Okay. People like Dr. Meeuwisse and
19 life -- can change. 19 Dr. Echemendia would probably be more knowledgeable
20 A. Can change your life and your family's 20 than --
21 life forever. 21 A. You or I.
22 Q. Thank you, yes. You saw that? 22 Q. -- you or I.
23 A. I see it. 23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. And neither of those statements are on 24 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection to the form of the
25 the NHL poster, correct? 25 question.
Page 251 Page 253

1 A. I don't know. 1 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
2 Q. Well, you want to take a look at it? 2 Q. And are you aware of whether
3 It's the one prior exhibit. 3 Dr. Echemendia or Dr. Meeuwisse have themselves
4 A. I'm certain there are things in here 4 acknowledged the link between repetitive
5 that aren't in here. They're not the same. 5 concussions or head trauma and long-term
6 Q. They're definitely not the same. I 6 neurocognitive or neurodegenerative disease?
7 agree with you. 7 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
9 Q. Is there any reason why the NHL poster 9 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
10 does not provide any warnings like those we just 10 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
11 mentioned on the NFL poster? 11 Q. If those two physicians who the NHL has
12 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection -- objection to the 12 used to help study concussions were to acknowledge
13 form of the question. 13 such a link, would you -- would that be something
14 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I don't know. 14 that you think the players should be aware of?
15 I imagine you might say why don't they show some of 15 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
16 the things that we have in it so -- they're 16 question. And I'll object also because that's a
17 different, that's why. 17 misleading question.
18 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 18 THE WITNESS: I -- I believe that the
19 Q. Well, which one appears to be more 19 Players' Association is aware of what
20 robust? 20 Dr. Echevaria --
21 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 21 MR. DAVIDSON: Echemendia.
22 question. 22 THE WITNESS: Echemendia and the other --
23 THE WITNESS: Robust, robust. 23 those two doctors' thinking is and position is as
24 MR. DAVIDSON: I like that question. 24 current or more current than you or I are aware of
25 THE WITNESS: I could tell. 25 and that -- I think their opinions, those two

612.338.3376
Page 254 Page 256

1 doctors' opinions, helped formulate the direction 1
2 of the National Hockey League and that program. 2
3 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. Can we take a couple 3
4 minutes? 4
5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at a 5
6 time of 1425. 6
7 (A recess was then taken.) 7
8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record. The 8
9 time is 1433. 9
11 Q. Mr. Jacobs -- 11
12 A. Yes. 12
13 Q. -- did you ever talk to Bill Daly about 13
14 the death of Wade Belak? 14
15 A. No. 15
16 Q. Have you ever talked to Mr. Daly about 16
17 the deaths of those three players within that short 17
18 time period in 2011? 18
19 A. No. 19
20 Q. Did you discuss with anybody at the 20
21 league the possibility that those three deaths were 21
22 caused by hits to the head that those players 22
23 received while playing in the NHL? 23
24 MR. GOLDFEIN: Objection to the form of the 24 A. Hey, here's -- I believe that having
25 question. 25 fighters for the sake of fighting is not hockey.
Page 255 Page 257

1 THE WITNESS: No. 1 And irrespective of how much they make, if they're
2 The following was marked for Identification: 2 not there, you'd have somebody else filling them
3 EXH. 25 e-mail chain 3 in, so it's to our disadvantage as a franchise to
4 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 4 necessarily employ fighters, per se, because it
5 5 takes up a place where skilled players should be.
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 258 Page 260

2 Q. Okay. Have you spoken with any 2 Q. Who is Larry Quinn?
3 neurologists or neurosurgeons that disagree with 3 A. Larry Quinn was the general -- GM for
4 this statement of Mr. Daly's? 4 Buffalo and I think president of the team at one
5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 5 point. He's now on the school board.
6 question. 6 Q. And you don't know an individual by the
7 THE WITNESS: I've never even seen this 7 name of Dr. Barry Willer?
8 statement until just now. 8 A. No.
9 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 9 The following was marked for Identification:
10 Q. Have you ever spoken with any 10 EXH. 26 e-mail chain, three pages
11 neurologists, neurosurgeons, neuropsychologists who 11 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
12 say that there is no link between concussions and 12 Q. I'm showing you what has been marked as
13 depression? 13 Exhibit 26 to your deposition, an e-mail chain
14 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 14 beginning on November 13th, 2008, from Jeremy
15 question. 15 Jacobs to Larry Quinn and Dr. Barry Willer.
16 THE WITNESS: I'm not -- I think it's -- I'm 16 A. From or to?
17 not -- I've known people that fought in bars, fell 17 Q. From. And then there's a response, and
18 down, and died. My brother, I remember my brother 18 then you forwarded it to -- off to Mr. --
19 telling me about an acquaintance of ours this 19 Commissioner Bettman, who then responded to you.
20 happened to. So you can die from fighting. 20 So I guess, you know, since you didn't
21 MR. DAVIDSON: Sure. 21 recall Dr. Willer, I might as well have you review
22 THE WITNESS: It happens. 22 the whole document and see if that refreshes your
23 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 23 recollection.
24 Q. You can also get concussions, right? 24 A. It doesn't. Yeah, I just repeated
25 A. I think so, yeah. Concussion. 25 Ruben's letter. That's basically what I can -- I
Page 259 Page 261

1 Q. You just don't think that you can get 1 provided a conduit. Larry didn't feel he was
2 any type of long-term brain disease from those? 2 being -- getting adequate audience.
3 A. I don't know. I don't know. Not 3 Q. With Dr. Echemendia?
4 there. 4 A. I think at the league level, and
5 (Discussion off the record.) 5 this -- this -- I went to -- got this guy Ruben
6 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 6 who --
7 Q. Have you ever communicated with doctors 7 Q. Do you recall -- I'm sorry for cutting
8 at the University of Buffalo regarding concussions? 8 you off. My apologies.
9 A. No. 9 A. Don't -- go ahead.
10 Q. Do you know who Dr. Barry Willer is, 10 Q. Do you recall the UB concussion clinic
11 W-I-L-L-E-R? 11 conducting a study regarding the use of exercise as
12 A. No. 12 a treatment for concussions?
13 Q. Do you know who Dr. John Leddy is? 13 A. Yes.
14 A. No. 14 Q. Okay. And as I gather, this e-mail is
15 Q. Did you know the University of Buffalo 15 you forwarding something on to Dr. Echemendia, or
16 was studying concussions in athletes? 16 Dr. Echemendia receiving some information about
17 A. Are you referring to when Golisano 17 that study and then --
18 had -- what's his name, Larry Quinn had a 18 A. Passing it on.
19 communication with them, and then he made me aware 19 Q. -- passed it on to you who passed it on
20 of them. 20 to Mr. Quinn and Dr. Willer, where Dr. Echemendia
21 Q. Okay. 21 says, among other things, bottom of the second
22 A. And then I passed that on to the 22 page, top of the third page: As you heard at the
23 league. 23 symposium from Dr. Hovda, H-O-V-D-A, if exercise is
24 Q. Did you know that the University of 24 introduced too early in animals with induced
25 Buffalo had a concussion clinic? 25 concussion, they have cell death.

612.338.3376
Page 262 Page 264

1 And then Dr. Willer and Dr. Leddy didn't 1 Commissioner Bettman and said "this subject is
2 appear to take too kindly to Dr. Echemendia's 2 taking on a life of its own."
3 potentially out-of-context views on their study; is 3 A. Yes.
4 that right? 4 Q. What did you mean by that?
5 A. I -- 5 A. Larry -- Larry was saying "but, but,
6 MR. SCARBOROUGH: I'll object to the form of 6 but," and didn't feel his answers -- so instead of
7 that question. 7 him going through me, I told him to go direct.
8 MR. DAVIDSON: Okay. 8 Q. And what was Larry's concern?
9 THE WITNESS: I don't think that -- you 9 A. Larry was feeling that he wasn't
10 know, it's apparent they're saying -- what I got 10 getting heard.
11 from this, my recollection is that -- that there's 11 Q. And what did he want to be heard?
12 a body of thinking that if you start exercising, 12 A. He wanted -- he wanted to employ the
13 you will overcome the symptoms of the headache and 13 University of Buffalo --
14 consistent with concussions, and they're saying 14 Q. Got it.
15 they haven't had -- Echevaria and company and that 15 A. -- into this and these guys there.
16 group have not found that necessarily to be a -- 16 Q. Got it, okay. At any point in time
17 true. 17 have you personally become aware of whether
18 There is probably more thinking right now 18 repeated concussions can cause permanent
19 that -- what I've seen of late is that if you -- if 19 neurocognitive impairment?
20 you start looking at the neck, you'll find that 20 A. I'm not aware of it, no.
21 there's more -- you're getting more symptoms 21 Q. Has anybody ever brought that to your
22 evolving from the -- from the neck than from the 22 attention?
23 head itself. 23 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
25 Q. More or less like a whiplash problem? 25 THE WITNESS: You know, I've heard that
Page 263 Page 265

1 A. That's the -- yeah. But whether it's 1 repeated concussions can --
2 true, I -- you know, I'm not able to -- there 2 MR. DAVIDSON: Do you remember -- I'm sorry.
3 wasn't a lot of support for this. 3 THE WITNESS: Heard years -- over years I've
4 Q. For Dr. Leddy and Dr. Willer's study? 4 heard it from different people saying that
5 A. Yeah. I don't even know if -- I don't 5 repetitive concussions could be harmful.
6 even know if they're in the neurological area. 6 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
7 Q. Other than this e-mail communication 7 Q. Okay. And do you know who you've heard
8 with them, did you have -- have you had any contact 8 it from?
9 with them? 9 A. I've heard this back during horse
10 A. None, none. 10 riding times I've heard that, but I don't know that
11 Q. Do you know that Dr. Leddy is studying 11 to be a fact or not.
12 former hockey players right now? 12 Q. So you believe you've heard that from
13 A. No, I don't. 13 people in the --
14 Q. Now -- 14 A. NHL?
15 A. I don't know what department he's in. 15 Q. In the horse arena is really what I --
16 Q. At the University of Buffalo? 16 A. I did, I did. I think I did back then.
17 A. Yeah. That's what I'm trying to say. 17 Q. Did you ever bring that information
18 I don't know if they're -- if they're neurology or 18 with you to any NHL meetings?
19 not. 19 A. I would bring it as a source of
20 Q. I have an idea, but I'm -- since I'll 20 information for myself, but I'm not part of -- I
21 get an objection from Mr. Goldfein, I'm not even 21 don't play a role in -- in that part specifically.
22 going to voice my -- 22 That I know of the existence of the committee and
23 A. Clever. 23 that I think it's well formed with a people a heck
24 Q. So -- and then you forwarded this 24 of a lot better informed than me, yes.
25 e-mail -- these e-mail communications to 25 The following was marked for Identification:

612.338.3376
Page 266 Page 268

1 EXH. 27 e-mail chain, seven pages 1 Q. Enstice, okay. Quite frankly, I don't
2 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 2 think those conflicts really make any --
3 Q. We're winding down. I'm showing you 3
4 what has been marked Exhibit 27 to your deposition. 4
5 It purports to be an e-mail chain starting with an 5
6 e-mail from Matt Enstice, E-N-S-T-I-C-E. 6
7 A. Right. 7
8 Q. To Mr. Jeremy Jacobs, Sr. Is that you? 8
9 A. Mm-hmm. 9
10 Q. Is that a yes? 10
11 A. Yes. 11 Q. Got it.
12 Q. And who is Matt Enstice? 12 A. So -- but, no, this is a credible group
13 A. Matt Enstice is the chairman or the 13 of neurosurgeons and neuroscientists that look into
14 president of the medical corridor here in Buffalo. 14 things like what we're talking about right here.
15 Q. Gotcha. Buffalo General, Kaleida, any 15 Whether this surgery -- or this -- the problem --
16 of -- 16 this is another study that -- that the world of
17 A. All the way from Roswell Park up to -- 17 mental health is crisscrossed with, and whether --
18 right up to that whole group where the new 18 where they're conflicting and where they're
19 university's going and everything. 19 duplicated which is in many places is one that
20 Q. And he's in charge of the whole medical 20 we -- has to -- you have to manage, you know, your
21 corridor? 21 sources. These are very good people, and they --
22 A. He's head of the whole medical 22 and every year Dr. Levy goes out and is going to
23 corridor. 23 cure this issue. And whether or not he can or not,
24 Q. Do you know what his title is? 24 I don't know, but --
25 A. I think he's president of it. 25
Page 267 Page 269

1 Q. What's the name of the corridor called? 1
2 A. I think it's medical corridor, I think 2
3 it's called. I don't know. Buffalo medical 3
4 corridor. I'm not sure. 4
5 Q. And he, according to this e-mail, 5
6 forwarded you a copy of a proposal that he says 6 Q. That I'm sure. People don't realize
7 they would like to do with the NHL players. Do you 7 how good the Buffalo medical community is.
8 know who "they" refers to? 8 A. Yeah. This one here is real strong.
9 A. No, I don't. 9 Q. So Matt sends you this study proposal;
10 Q. Is this the University of Buffalo 10 is that correct?
11 study? 11 A. Yes.
12 A. I don't know. I mean, that's -- okay. 12 Q. And then you forward it on to
13 To lend some credibility to this -- 13 Commissioner Bettman?
14 Q. Sure. 14 A. Right.
15 A. -- Elad Levy is chairman of 15 Q. What was the reason you were forwarding
16 neurology -- neurosurgery, Ken Snyder, and these 16 it on to Commissioner Bettman?
17 are all part of what is called The Gates Vascular 17 A. Because that is -- the study had to do
18 Institute. There's a conflict here, because the 18 with hockey and head injuries in hockey.
19 Jacobs Institute is in the middle of The Gates 19 Q. And were you just going to let them
20 Vascular Institute, and that's me. 20 decide whether they wanted to participate in this
21 Q. Got it. I'll waive that conflict. 21 or not?
22 A. Okay. I have another conflict. The 22 A. Whether they wanted to utilize it and
23 other conflict is that Matt is married to my niece. 23 back the study or whether or not they were already
24 Q. How do you pronounce his last name? 24 doing it.
25 A. Enstice. 25 Q. Gotcha.

612.338.3376
Page 270 Page 272

1 A. I don't know. 1 concussions can cause -- can result in permanent
2 Q. You don't know, okay. And did you read 2 neurocognitive impairment and an increased
3 the abstract for the study when Matt sent it to 3 incidence of depression in professional athletes.
4 you? 4 Do you see that?
5 A. Yeah, oh, yeah. Did I read this? 5 A. Yes, I did.
6 Yeah, pretty much. 6 Q. This was written by -- or this is a
7 Q. And if you go to the background section 7 study being performed by a group that you --
8 on the first page of the study -- 8 A. No, this is a study being proposed, I
9 A. First page of the study. Summary of 9 think.
10 the research design, is that what you're thinking? 10 Q. Right. It's being proposed.
11 Or tell me what -- 11 A. Okay.
12 Q. Under the background. Yeah, it starts 12 MR. GOLDFEIN: You said performed.
13 with "early markers of risk" at the top. It's the 13 THE WITNESS: Performed, yeah.
14 first page of the study. It's right after the 14 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
15 e-mails. 15 Q. Proposed by a group of neurologists at
16 A. Let me get there. Oh, yeah, yeah. 16 the University of Buffalo that you believe are
17 Q. And it starts with the specific study 17 topnotch, right?
18 objectives. To obtain baseline and long-term 18 A. This is a proposal.
19 follow-up data on professional hockey players in an 19 Q. Right.
20 attempt to capture changes from baseline if a 20 A. From a topnotch group.
21 player experiences a concussion and/or possibly 21 Q. Right.
22 highlight markers making a player susceptible to 22 A. I don't know who's performing it.
23 injury and long-term effects. The data will 23 Q. Okay. This proposal from a topnotch
24 consist of MRI imaging, physiologic profusion 24 group, correct?
25 imaging, electrophysiology and testing during 25 A. Yes, yes.
Page 271 Page 273

1 exercise, and neuropsychiatric testing. 1 Q. And in this proposal --
2 Do you see that? 2 A. Well, let's put it in context.
3 A. Yes, I do. 3 Q. Sure.
4 Q. And do you know what long-term effects 4 A. Elad's son skates, and he has -- and he
5 the authors of this study -- of this abstract were 5 likes skating, and he's involved, and his son goes
6 referring to? 6 to Phillips Exeter and skated up there. He doesn't
7 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 7 anymore but he was. And every year he ran a fund
8 question. 8 raiser to study hockey injuries in those that are
9 THE WITNESS: Because -- because the study I 9 near and dear to his heart, which is neurological.
10 don't believe was adopted, I don't think they -- 10 He is -- and he has a body that he would
11 they know what the long-term effects were -- was. 11 like to carry forward, but he doesn't have the
12 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 12 capability or the financial means. So he's
13 Q. And then if you go down under 13 proposing that the league undertake this within
14 background, do you see that section? 14 their group and cover it, the same way the other
15 A. Yes. 15 doctors wanted to be followed, so this is not the
16 Q. Now, about two-thirds of the way down, 16 only one that comes in either over the transom or
17 halfway down, there's a sentence that starts after 17 under the door, however it does. This is one that
18 the number 3 in brackets. It says "there is ample 18 came in. The league in their collective wisdom
19 data." Do you see that? 19 determines the course of action they're going to
20 A. Showing that concussion risk increases 20 follow answer.
21 after having had one or more concussions. I saw 21 Q. Completely.
22 that. 22 A. I think Elad is a very, very competent
23 Q. Then it goes on to say that previous 23 guy. This is a competent group. Probably a very
24 concussions may be associated with slower recovery 24 worthwhile study. Whether it fits in the studies
25 of neurological function and that repeated 25 that need to be done is not my ability nor position

612.338.3376
Page 274 Page 276

1 to make that determination. 1 Q. So it's your view that unless the
2 Q. So do you believe that, you know, as an 2 Players' Association gives their stamp of approval,
3 owner for the last 40 years, that it would be a 3 you, as the owner of the Boston Bruins and the
4 good idea to study retired players and their mental 4 chairman of the board of governors, have no right
5 health? 5 to tell the players, to give them any warnings
6 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 6 about what repeated concussions can cause
7 question. 7 long-term?
8 THE WITNESS: I have no point of view on 8 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
9 this at all. 9 question.
10 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 10 THE WITNESS: Well, you are making leap -- I
11 Q. Okay. But according to this group, 11 want you to know -- I want you to see where you
12 they're saying there's ample data showing that 12 went, because you did a lovely job. You took the
13 concussion risk increases after having one or more 13 guy from a suggestion that a study be made to find
14 concussions, that previous concussions may be 14 out if they have neurocognitive problems. That's
15 associated with slower recovery of neurological 15 what it says here.
16 function, and that repeated concussions can result 16 MR. DAVIDSON: No, it doesn't.
17 in permanent neurocognitive impairments and an 17 THE WITNESS: The previous concussions may
18 increased incidence of depression in professional 18 be associated with slow recovery of neurological
19 athletes. 19 function and that repeated concussions can result
20 Do you have any reason to doubt the veracity 20 in permanent neurology -- took it from there and
21 of what these doctors are saying in this proposal? 21 said it is, in fact, a condition. And then you
22 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 22 said I should be telling this to the players for
23 question. 23 which I've got a pre-existing agreement with the
24 THE WITNESS: I think they're very honorable 24 Players' Association bargained collectively
25 people. 25 together is my introducing the subject to them, and
Page 275 Page 277

1 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 1 I don't believe I can unilaterally do that.
2 Q. So if these very honorable people are 2 MR. DAVIDSON: Interesting.
3 saying that there is ample data showing, among 3 THE WITNESS: Isn't it?
4 other things, that repeated concussions can result 4 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
5 in permanent neurocognitive impairment, shouldn't 5 Q. So -- so this isn't a study that's
6 the players be told of that? 6 being proposed here. I mean, it is, but this is a
7 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 7 statement that says "there is ample data showing."
8 question. 8 A. Yeah.
9 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 9 Q. This isn't saying "we're going to try
10 Q. Shouldn't your players on the Boston 10 to find out."
11 Bruins be told that there is a risk that repeated 11 A. Then why are we going to do a study if
12 concussions can cause permanent neurocognitive 12 it's been already proven?
13 impairments? 13 Q. Certain things have already been
14 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 14 proven, sir.
15 question. 15 MR. GOLDFEIN: I'm going to object to the
16 THE WITNESS: Who should tell them? 16 form of the question. Look, he's asked and
17 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 17 answered, and he emphasized the words "may be
18 Q. You're their employer, are you not? 18 associated" and "can be," which is what can result.
19 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 19 It doesn't say "is associated" and it doesn't say
20 question. 20 "results in." So --
21 THE WITNESS: I don't know if I'm their 21 MR. DAVIDSON: Actually, it does.
22 employer, but I know that I have an agreement with 22 MR. GOLDFEIN: The witness has testified --
23 the Players' Association, and I can't necessarily 23 MR. DAVIDSON: No, I'm sorry, Shep, with all
24 unilaterally tell them anything. 24 due --
25 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 25 MR. GOLDFEIN: Well, we can quarrel over the

612.338.3376
Page 278 Page 280

1 language, but the witness has testified as to what 1 A. No, I have really not.
2 his understanding is. 2 Q. Did you hear that his brain -- Steve's
3 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 3 brain had been studied and found to have CTE?
4 Q. So let's get the language directly in 4 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
5 the record. It says -- 5 question.
6 A. Why don't you put the whole thing in 6 THE WITNESS: No, I didn't know that. I
7 the record. 7 really don't know what CTE is so --
8 Q. It's already there. 8 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
9 A. So why are we doing it again? 9 Q. Do you remember Dan LoCouture?
10 Q. Because you say "maybe." 10 A. No.
11 A. And it doesn't say "maybe"? 11 Q. Played for you in 2005.
12 Q. It says "can result." 12 A. Okay.
13 MR. GOLDFEIN: It says the words "may be." 13 Q. Do you remember Mark Savard?
14 THE WITNESS: "That previous concussions may 14 A. Mark Savard? Yeah.
15 be." Okay. We want to scratch that out? 15 Q. Played for you for about five years.
16 MR. DAVIDSON: Where are you looking? 16 A. Mark Savard, I'm still paying him.
17 THE WITNESS: Where it says "may be." 17 Q. Still paying him?
18 MR. GOLDFEIN: The previous sentence. 18 A. Yeah.
19 THE WITNESS: 7, "that previous concussions 19 Q. Disability?
20 may be associated with slower recovery." 20 A. He's under contract.
21 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 21 Q. He's under contract? Why did Mark stop
22 Q. That's the -- I'm looking at the next 22 playing?
23 phrase. Read the next phrase. 23
24 A. That repeated concussions can result in 24
25 permanent neurocognitive impairment. 25
Page 279 Page 281

1 Q. It says nothing about "may be." I 1
2 mean, nowhere -- 2
3 A. The document speaks for itself. I have 3
4 no further comment. 4
5 MR. GOLDFEIN: All right. Thank you. 5
7 Q. Okay. Do you remember where you were 7
8 when you heard that Steve Montador had passed away? 8
9 A. I think I was here in Buffalo. 9
10 Q. How did you hear about it? 10
11 A. He used to play for me. He used to 11
12 play here in Buffalo, too. 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 Q. Have you read any articles about 23
24 Mr. Montador's brain being studied after he passed 24
25 away? 25

612.338.3376
Page 282 Page 284

1 1 A. Milbury has had -- had a very active
2 2 fighting career.
3 3 Q. He did.
4 4 A. Yeah, and he's done quite well
5 5 subsequent to his career, so fighting has not
6 6 interfered with his ability to articulate his point
7 7 of view.
8 8 Q. Okay.
9 9 (Discussion off the record.)
10 10 The following was marked for Identification:
11 11 EXH. 28 e-mail, with attached memorandum
13 13 Q. 28. Exhibit 28, Mr. Jacobs, is an
14 14 e-mail sent to --
15 15 A. The board of governors.
16 16 Q. I was just going to say a lot of
17 17 people. If you tell me they're all board of
18 18 governors or --
19 19 A. No, I can't, I can't. Memoranda
20 20 recipients, there's much more than just the board
21 Q. Do you keep in touch with any of your 21 of governors.
22 former players other than the ones that work in the 22 Q. This e-mail's sent to a heck of a lot
23 organization, like Mr. Neely? 23 of people, from Cynthia Lichter, L-I-C-H-T-E-R,
24 A. Well, Cam I speak to because he works 24 which attaches a memorandum regarding the
25 with me on a regular basis. I speak with Ray 25 above-referenced subject which is being sent on
Page 283 Page 285

1 Bourque from time to time and some of my president 1 behalf of Bill Daly. And the subject is memorandum
2 ones I see, the leadership group, between Bergeron 2 dash recent player tragedies.
3 and Chara, those are the ones, those kind of guys I 3 Do you see that?
4 do. 4 A. Yes, I do.
5 Q. Mike Milbury played for you? 5 Q. And then the memorandum is dated
6 A. Yes. I haven't talked to Mike for a 6 September 1st, 2001, to the NHL board of governors
7 while. I haven't talked to him for quite a while 7 from Bill Daly re recent player tragedies.
8 actually. Every once in a while I'll run into it 8 Do you see that?
9 him. 9 A. Mm-hmm.
10 Q. He's doing broadcasting in the NHL 10 Q. Is that a yes?
11 network? 11 A. Yes, I'm sorry. Yes, I see it.
12 A. Broadcasting, and that's the only 12 Q. That's okay. And you received this
13 reason why I would see him. 13 memorandum, correct?
14 Q. Did you happen to see a broadcast -- do 14 A. That's what it says here.
15 you watch the NHL network broadcast at all? 15 Q. You're listed second in --
16 A. Yes. 16 A. Yes.
17 17 Q. -- your e-mail.
18 18 A. Yes, it is.
19 19 Q. And you're a member of the board of --
20 20 you were a member of the board of governors on
21 21 September 1st, 2011, right?
22 22 A. Yes.
23 23 Q. Did you read this memorandum when it
24 Q. But have you ever spoken with 24 was sent?
25 Mr. Milbury with his views on fighting? 25 A. I may have. I don't have a

612.338.3376
Page 286 Page 288

1 recollection of it. 1 Q. Do you know what, if anything, the NHL
2 Q. Okay. This memorandum was sent the day 2 did following the death of -- deaths of these three
3 after Wade Belak had passed according to the 3 players --
4 memorandum, correct? 4 A. Here they reached out to the players
5 A. Yes. 5 and indicating that if they need assistance of any
6 Q. I want to turn your attention to the 6 kind, that they stood available.
7 second paragraph. It says: First, we feel it is 7 Q. Well, Mr. Daly says that he was
8 prudent and appropriate to immediately reach out to 8 committed -- we are committed to examining in more
9 all players by e-mail blast through the NHLPA's 9 detail the factors that may have contributed to
10 infrastructure to reinforce the message that 10 these deaths. So can you tell me what the NHL did?
11 resources are available to anyone who is in need of 11 A. Why don't we take -- why don't we
12 assistance for any reason. 12 take -- first, we feel it is prudent and
13 Second, and on a long-term basis, we intend 13 appropriate to immediately reach out to all players
14 to actively pursue a thorough evaluation of our 14 by e-mail blast through the NHLPA's infrastructure
15 existing assistance programs and practices to 15 to reinforce the message that resources are
16 insure that we are doing everything we can to 16 available to anyone who is in need of assistance
17 maximize their effectiveness. 17 for the -- first thing that they reached out,
18 Third, and finally, we are committed to 18 didn't they?
19 examining in more detail the factors that may have 19 Q. Did they do that? Do you know that?
20 contributed to these three separate tragedies to 20 A. It said so right here.
21 see if valid and appropriate conclusions can be 21 Q. Do you know that they did that?
22 drawn and whether corrective or preventative steps 22 A. No.
23 can be taken. 23 Q. Okay.
24 So my first question to you is: Can you 24 A. Second, and on a longer-term basis, we
25 tell me what the NHL did to actively pursue a 25 intend to actively pursue a thorough evaluation of
Page 287 Page 289

1 thorough evaluation of its existing assistance 1 our existing assistance program and practices to
2 programs and practices? 2 insure that we are doing everything we can to
3 A. No, I cannot. 3 maximize their effectiveness.
4 Q. Did you ever receive any update 4 Q. Did they do that?
5 following this memorandum about any evaluation of 5 A. I don't know. I suppose they did. I
6 existing assistance programs and practices that had 6 take it for granted. Usually Billy doesn't write
7 been performed? 7 unless he's going to do it. Third, and finally, we
8 A. I'm not currently aware of it. I may 8 are committed to examining in more detail the
9 have, but I don't know of it. 9 factors that maybe contributed to these three
10 Q. And then Mr. Daly says that "we are 10 separate tragedies to see if a valid and
11 committed to examining in more detail the factors 11 appropriate conclusion can be drawn.
12 that may have contributed to these three separate 12 So what I see here is this is a very
13 tragedies to see if valid and appropriate 13 compassionate outreach on the part of the -- of
14 conclusions can be drawn and whether corrective or 14 Bill Daly and the benefit of the National Hockey
15 preventative steps can be taken." 15 League to express their interest in support of
16 Do you know what, if anything, the NHL did 16 their players and hopefully -- hopefully it's not
17 to examine in more detail the factors that may have 17 construed as -- as anything other than it is here,
18 contributed to the three deaths of the NHL players? 18 and being compassionate I don't think is -- is a
19 A. Say that again? 19 quality that should be detracted from.
20 Q. Do you know what, if anything, the NHL 20 Q. Now -- and, Mr. Jacobs, don't get me
21 did to examine in more detail the factors that may 21 wrong. I'm not saying that this does not show
22 have contributed to the deaths of those three 22 compassion. It very well may. My question to you
23 players? 23 is: Mr. Daly says, we are going to do several
24 A. I -- I'm not familiar with it. I have 24 things.
25 not stayed that close to it. 25 A. Yeah.

612.338.3376
Page 290 Page 292

1 Q. Pursue a thorough evaluation of 1 decided to study its retired players?
2 existing assistance programs, examine the factors 2 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
3 that may have contributed to these tragedies, and 3 question.
4 my simple question to you is -- 4 THE WITNESS: I have no position on it at
5 A. No, I don't know. 5 all.
6 Q. -- do you know what they did? 6 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
7 A. No, I don't, I don't know, but I think 7 Q. But you said you think more information
8 Bill Daly would know. 8 is better than less?
9 Q. Do you know what conclusions, if any, 9 A. More information that leads to some
10 were ever drawn by the NHL regarding the tragedies? 10 meaningful result, yes.
11 A. No. 11 Q. But if -- so if somebody proposed that
12 Q. Do you recall any follow-up memorandum 12 a study of retired players be done, you wouldn't
13 from Mr. Daly or anybody else at the NHL? 13 object to that?
14 A. No, I don't. 14 A. It depends on where it leads you to.
15 Q. I think you answered this question, but 15 And by that, I mean, not what the end is, but
16 I'm sorry if I forgot the answer, but you'll tell 16 this -- I don't know if -- if we wind up with ten
17 me if you already answered it. 17 people's brains that are showing -- you know, after
18 A. I answered it. Go ahead. 18 death are showing a condition exists, I don't know
19 Q. Has the NHL ever studied the effect of 19 if that condition exists prior to death, and I
20 prior concussions suffered by its players on 20 don't know what the implications are, but just
21 retired players? 21 discovering more and more of it without leading to
22 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 22 something is -- might be a waste of energy.
24 THE WITNESS: I -- I don't know. 24 EXH. 29 e-mail chain, three pages
25 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 25 THE WITNESS: 29.
Page 291 Page 293

1 Q. Would you want to know as the chairman 1 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
2 of the board of governors whether the concussions 2 Q. 29. Mr. Jacobs, I'm showing you what
3 that your players suffer while they're playing 3 I've marked Exhibit 29 to your deposition. Why
4 leads to some long-term brain problems down the 4 don't you take a moment to review this document and
5 road? 5 let me know when you're finished.
6 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 6 (Discussion off the record.)
7 question. With or without return to play 7 THE WITNESS: Yeah, it's interesting. I
8 standards? Can you qualify the question? 8 hadn't seen it for -- I do remember talk about it,
9 MR. DAVIDSON: I can't. 9 the idea of this helmet, but it's not -- it's
10 MR. GOLDFEIN: Okay. If you can answer. 10 interesting, but I don't know what came of it.
11 THE WITNESS: I think any information you 11 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
12 can get that helps better understand what makes 12 Q. So Exhibit 29 is an e-mail from Julie
13 people's life better is something we'd like to 13 Grand to Bill Daly, Gary Bettman, and Jessica
14 answer. I want to -- I just want to go a little 14 Berman dated November 30th, 2009, correct?
15 further, because you and I have spoken of this. 15 A. Yeah.
16 MR. DAVIDSON: Sure. 16 Q. And you've had an opportunity to read
17 THE WITNESS: We spoke about there is -- 17 it before, I mean, just now?
18 there's so much collateral information out there 18 A. Just now, yeah.
19 that's going on in other sports and in other 19 Q. Okay. And you've read the part where
20 industries, and especially our federal government, 20 Miss Grand says -- well, she starts out her e-mail
21 the money that's being spent on this, that I'm 21 saying: We are scheduling a Concussion Working
22 hopeful that that collective -- that information 22 Group meeting for January or February, and I would
23 can be collected and used across the board. 23 get some input from you as to the extent, if any,
24 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 24 of your interest in future projects for the group.
25 Q. Would you have any objection if the NHL 25 She goes on halfway down the page to say:

612.338.3376
Page 294 Page 296

1 Some possible areas of focus are, and she lists A, 1 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
2 B, C, and D. 2 question.
3 You read that? 3 THE WITNESS: I think I answered that.
4 A. Yeah. 4 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
5 Q. Okay. A is a pilot project for two to 5 Q. Because there's so much out there?
6 three seasons involving a handful, four to six, of 6 A. There are so many --
7 NHL teams whose players would wear helmets 7 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
8 outfitted with the HITS sensors. B, a study on the 8 question.
9 long-term neurocognitive and psychological effects 9 THE WITNESS: There are so many people --
10 of repeated concussions among retired NHL players. 10 there's so many people studying various and sundry
11 Such a study could be retrospective as in the NFL 11 levels of this that I think we should -- we should
12 studies or prospective since we now have baseline 12 look at what's out there.
13 data that date back over ten years. 13 BY MR. DAVIDSON:
14 C is working with equipment manufacturers in 14 Q. So what is the NHL doing for those
15 the biomechanics -- 15 former retired players who are currently suffering
16 A. Mechanics. 16 from effects of their concussions?
17 Q. -- biomechanics, that's plural -- 17 A. I think --
18 A. I don't think that's right. 18 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the
19 Q. -- to explore if helmet design can be 19 question.
20 improved so as to provide increased protection 20 THE WITNESS: I think that we can get a
21 against concussions. 21 pretty good idea from the Players' Association and
22 And D is one area that is now emerging as 22 from the NHL directly on what -- what's out there
23 the role of rehab for players who are slow to 23 for them. There are various funds and things like
24 recover from concussion. 24 that that are available, and the Players'
25 Then she goes on to say: Personally, I am 25 Association has funds available for their -- their
Page 295 Page 297

1 most interested in C and D, next interested in A, 1 past employees. Past members, I should say.
2 and least interested in B, because B is removed 2 MR. DAVIDSON: I don't have any further
3 from the current issues we face, that I'd rather 3 questions.
4 focus on the here and now and leave the dementia 4 MR. GOLDFEIN: Okay. I do have a couple of
5 issues up to the NFL. 5 questions. Maybe we can take a five-minute break
6 Do you think it's appropriate to leave the 6 before we start.
7 dementia issues to another league and not study 7 MR. DAVIDSON: Sure.
8 them in the NHL? 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record.
9 A. I think that the -- we can 9 The time is 1528.
10 coordinate -- what do I think? I think I answered 10 (A recess was then taken.)
11 that more than once in saying that there's so many 11 The following was marked for Identification:
12 studies out there that if we can collect them 12 EXH. 30 memorandum dated November 24, 2008,
13 together, we can take advantage of one another's 13 two pages
14 research. 14 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record. The
15 Q. What dementia issues do you believe 15 time is 1535.
16 she's referring to? 16
17 A. I don't know. We can ask her. 17 EXAMINATION BY MR. GOLDFEIN:
18 Q. Is the NHL afraid to study its retired 18
19 players for what it might find? 19 Q. Mr. Jacobs, I'm going to show you a
20 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the 20 document (Exhibit 30). It's dated November 24th,
21 question. 21 2008. It's from Julie Grand to the general
22 THE WITNESS: Is that your presumption? 22 managers, team physicians, and athletic trainers.
23 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 23 Bates numbers are -- end in 630 through 632, and
24 Q. Why not conduct the study, I'm 24 I'd ask you to take a look at it.
25 wondering. 25 MR. GOLDFEIN: This is designated by you as

612.338.3376
Page 298 Page 300

1 part of your exhibits. 1 mentions a few other doctors here.
2 MR. DAVIDSON: This was on my exhibits? 2 Q. Right.
3 MR. GOLDFEIN: Yes. 3 A. So they're not being cc.'d.
4 THE WITNESS: You said 630? 4 Q. You're correct. They are the ones
5 MR. GOLDFEIN: I just -- I'm just referring 5 supplying the Did You Know.
6 to the Bates numbers at the bottom just for the 6 A. Yeah.
7 record. 7 Q. And the Health Management Panel
8 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Yes, I 8 includes representatives of the NHLPA, correct?
9 see it, right. Do you want me to read it? 9 A. That's correct.
10 MR. GOLDFEIN: Yes, please. 10 MR. DAVIDSON: Objection to form.
11 THE WITNESS: Aloud or what? 11 BY MR. GOLDFEIN:
12 MR. GOLDFEIN: Yeah, you can read it aloud. 12 Q. So I would ask you to read into the
13 THE WITNESS: Enclosed please find an 13 record the Did You Know and what's listed under
14 educational document authored by the NHL Health 14 concussion symptoms, please.
15 Management Panel entitled Did You Know. This 15 A. Did you know that by not reporting
16 document identifies several steps that can be taken 16 concussion symptoms, you risk serious brain injury
17 to reduce the likelihood of players incurred -- 17 and greater time loss. If you experience symptoms
18 incurring head injuries as well as steps that can 18 of concussion such as headaches, dizziness, or
19 be taken to minimize the risk of getting a staph 19 nausea after an on-ice hit, it is important to
20 infection. The Players' Association is 20 report those symptoms promptly for medical staff.
21 distributing this document to NHL players. Please 21 Research suggests that early management of
22 be sure it is reviewed by each club's medical and 22 these symptoms will reduce overall time loss and
23 training staff and posted in an area visible to 23 result in quicker symptom resolution. Failure to
24 players. If you have any questions regarding this 24 report these symptoms may lead to extended time
25 document, please call me. And this is from Julie 25 loss, ending your career, and permanent brain
Page 299 Page 301

1 Grand. 1 damage. It is not worth it. Honestly -- honesty
2 BY MR. GOLDFEIN: 2 and promptly report your symptoms.
3 Q. All right. Now, the document that's 3 Q. Now, do you recall that counsel for
4 attached to this is entitled Did You Know, and 4 plaintiffs asked you to look at the concussion
5 you'll note that it's cc.'d to a number of people, 5 exhibit for the NFL --
6 but they include a number of people that are 6 A. Yes.
7 related or have some affiliation with the NHLPA, 7 Q. -- which was Jacobs Exhibit number 24
8 correct? 8 and that it referred to brain damage?
9 A. Say again? 9 A. Yes.
10 Q. In other words, this document is cc.'d, 10 Q. And he asked you questions regarding
11 copied, to a number of people that are associated 11 why the concussion poster for the NHL did not refer
12 with the NHLPA, correct, such as Ian Penny, 12 to brain damage?
13 Dr. John Rizos, do you see that on the cc.'s? 13 A. Yes.
14 A. Yes, I do, I do. 14 Q. Okay. Is this document -- this
15 Q. Okay. And you -- would you read into 15 document, as you read into the record earlier, was
16 the record the -- 16 to be posted in a place visible to all players and
17 A. Let me correct you here. This says: 17 transmitted by the NHLPA to all players. Do you
18 This information is being provided by the NHL 18 recall that?
19 Health Management Panel including Bill Daly, Julie 19 A. Yes.
20 Grand, Ian Penny, Dr. John Rizos, Dr. Scott 20 Q. That's from reading the cover memo.
21 Gillogly, head team physician, Atlanta Thrashers, 21 A. Yes.
22 Ray Tufts, head trainer San Jose, Dr. Willem -- 22 Q. Do you have -- if this document was
23 Q. Meeuwisse. 23 sent to the Bruins, would you expect that the
24 A. -- Meeuwisse, and thanks also to Drs. 24 Bruins would have posted this in a visible place to
25 Glenn Maron and Steve Marlowe, Dr. -- and it 25 the players?

612.338.3376
Page 302 Page 304

1 A. Yes. 1 remains unproven. The extent to which age-related
2 MR. DAVIDSON: Objection to form. 2 changes, psychiatric or mental health illness,
3 BY MR. GOLDFEIN: 3 alcohol, drug use, or coexisting medical or
4 Q. And would you expect that that would 4 dementing illnesses contribute to this process is
5 have told players that they were subject to 5 largely unaccounted for in the published
6 potential brain damage if they didn't report their 6 literature.
7 concussions and return to play symptom free? 7 At present, the interpretation of causation
8 MR. DAVIDSON: Objection to form. 8 in the modern CTE case studies should proceed
9 THE WITNESS: Yes. 9 cautiously, if we also recognize that it is
10 BY MR. GOLDFEIN: 10 important to address the fears of parents,
11 Q. Now, counsel also asked you questions 11 athletes, from media pressure related to the
12 about a variety -- he mentioned a variety of 12 possibility of CTE.
13 doctors during the course of the deposition, 13 If those doctors signed on to that
14 including Mr. -- Dr. Echemendia and Dr. Meeuwisse. 14 statement, would you have any reason to disagree
15 He mentioned a Dr. Aubry. I think you said you 15 with their medical judgment?
16 weren't sure who he was. He mentioned Dr. Cantu, 16 A. No, none.
17 among others that he mentioned. 17 Q. Okay. As you heard me read that
18 I'm going to read you a statement that these 18 statement, under the circumstances of uncertainty
19 doctors subscribe their names to along with many 19 about the relationship of CTE or its risks as
20 other doctors in 2012, and I'll ask you as I'm 20 stated in the statement, would you have any reason
21 reading it to be mindful of whether you would have 21 to believe that the NHL should be warning players
22 any reason to disagree with that statement. And 22 about those risks?
23 the statement reads as follows, if I can find it. 23 A. I question it.
24 MR. DAVIDSON: I'm going to object. I don't 24 Q. Thank you. Now, I want to ask you one
25 believe that that document has been pre-identified 25 last question. You -- you have former NHL players
Page 303 Page 305

1 by the defendants in -- 1 who work for the Bruins, correct?
2 MR. GOLDFEIN: I'm not submitting it as an 2 A. Yes.
3 exhibit. 3 Q. And you know other former NHL
4 MR. DAVIDSON: You're reading it. 4 players --
5 MR. GOLDFEIN: I'm reading a document. You 5 A. Yes.
6 can make your objection. 6 Q. -- who have worked in the league?
7 MR. DAVIDSON: The objection's made. 7 A. Most of the leadership is formulated
8 BY MR. GOLDFEIN: 8 from --
9 Q. Okay. What is the evidence of chronic 9 Q. Okay. And I take it that all of those
10 concussion-related changes, behavioral, 10 players presumably suffered some form of head hits
11 pathological, and clinical outcomes. It was 11 while they were playing hockey --
12 agreed -- and those are the doctors that I just 12 A. Yes.
13 read you have said -- it was agreed that CTE 13 Q. -- because of the physical nature of
14 represents a distinct tauopathy with an unknown 14 hockey, and those hits would be either incidental
15 incidence in athletic populations. It was further 15 or direct hits to the head, correct?
16 agreed that CTE was not related to concussions 16 A. Yes.
17 alone or simply exposure to contact sports. 17 Q. Okay. And, to your knowledge, have any
18 At present, there are no published 18 of those players ever come to you and said, I'm
19 epidemiological cohorts or prospective studies 19 suffering from the symptom -- I'm continuing to
20 relating to modern CTE. Owing to the nature of the 20 suffer from the symptoms of my concussion?
21 case reports and pathological case series that have 21 A. They haven't, no, nobody that I deal
22 been published, it is not possible to determine the 22 with.
23 causality or risk factor with any certainty. 23 Q. Okay. And have any of those players
24 As such, the speculation that repeated 24 expressed to you a concern about long-term
25 concussions or sub-concussive impacts cause CTE 25 neurocognitive problems in the future?

612.338.3376
Page 306
1 A. They haven't, no.
2 MR. GOLDFEIN: Okay. I don't have any
3 further questions.
4 MR. SCARBOROUGH: No questions.
5 MR. DAVIDSON: No follow-up.
6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Concluding at a time of
7 1545.
8 (Discussion off the record.)
9 (The following discussion was held after
10 videotaping concluded.)
11 MR. GOLDFEIN: The deposition is
12 confidential under our procedures and then within a
13 certain time from receiving the transcript we
14 de-designate.
15 MR. DAVIDSON: Yes.
16 MR. GOLDFEIN: Okay. Thank you.
17 (Deposition concluded at 3:46 p.m.)
18 * * *
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 307
1 I hereby CERTIFY that I have read the
2 foregoing 306 pages, and that they are a true and
3 accurate transcript of the testimony given by me in
4 the above-entitled action on September 10, 2015.
5
6
7 -----------------------
JEREMY MAURICE JACOBS
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

612.338.3376
Page 308
1 STATE OF NEW YORK)
2 ss:
3 COUNTY OF ERIE)
4
5 I DO HEREBY CERTIFY as a Notary Public in and
6 for the State of New York, that I did attend and
7 report the foregoing deposition, which was taken
8 down by me in a verbatim manner by means of machine
9 shorthand. Further, that the deposition was then
10 reduced to writing in my presence and under my
11 direction. That the deposition was taken to be
12 used in the foregoing entitled action. That the
13 said deponent, before examination, was duly sworn
14 to testify to the truth, the whole truth and
15 nothing but the truth, relative to said action.
16
17
18 --------------------------
JOAN M. METZGER-HUBBELL,
19 CRR, RMR, RPR,
Notary Public.
20
21
22
23
24
25

612.338.3376
Page 309
A acknowled... 237:4 160:17 275:3 277:7 156:17,20

$6 282:8 253:4 advise 247:13 182:11 analysis 157:2
a.m 1:19 6:2 acquaintance advised 224:10 234:23 231:13,14
110:24 258:19 153:4,11 303:12,13 235:12 238:7
119:6 act 52:19 advocate 303:16 236:21 277:17
ability 9:10 56:4,5,8 240:10 agreement and/or 290:15,17
9:14 55:10 62:25 63:3 affect 9:10 54:7 61:24 270:21 290:18
133:24 63:8,15 59:16 62:1 62:3,7,8,14 animals 295:10
273:25 214:6 210:19 62:18 63:17 261:24 296:3
284:6 acting 282:5 affiliation 75:8 80:22 announcer answers
able 29:25 action 187:12 299:7 206:1 173:9 68:25 264:6
30:8 63:14 273:19 afraid 182:6 275:22 175:13 anticipate
87:5,6 307:4 295:18 276:23 announcers 132:9
129:3 308:12,15 age-related ahead 48:23 173:7,11 anybody
132:11,25 actions 1:9 304:1 61:20 74:1 anonymous 11:20 32:14
133:1 137:4 111:21,24 agency 159:4 116:4 182:5 239:17 32:15 38:22
257:25 active 15:8 agenda 3:5 261:9 another's 38:23 61:12
263:2 281:5 284:1 24:11,12 290:18 295:13 83:3 134:10
281:5 actively 67:21 68:1 air 111:16 answer 8:7 138:14
above-enti... 286:14,25 aggression alcohol 304:3 8:16 9:6 176:1
307:4 288:25 195:3,8 alive 144:25 21:9 28:22 179:11
above-refe... activity aggressive allegations 61:18,19,23 214:16
284:25 136:18 109:1 127:5 63:22 64:1 215:12
above-requ... adapt 231:8,9 225:15 alleged 73:24 74:2 226:12
118:6 231:10 aggressive... 189:22 87:22 90:22 254:20
absolutely add 232:4 163:16 allowed 90:23 91:4 264:21
61:11 207:6 address 25:7 agitation 125:23 115:25 290:13
207:6 25:11,14,22 163:15 alongside 127:7,7 anybody's
abstract 147:24 ago 9:17 205:10 131:18 184:4,10
270:3 271:5 149:19 83:20 99:21 aloud 298:11 154:6 anymore
Academy 304:10 165:4 268:6 298:12 155:25 273:7
235:3 addressed 279:20 alter 230:3 157:2 162:6 Anyway
accept 129:7 142:12 agree 29:12 altercation 162:20 214:11
acceptable adequate 29:22 30:4 199:1 165:10 apart 170:3
18:24 261:2 31:8 33:22 alternate 179:2,5 apologies
167:20 adequately 34:6 46:24 53:2,4 180:2,4 261:8
accepted 114:22 60:23 66:6 alternates 194:23 apologize
181:22 115:2 72:13 78:21 53:5,13,24 208:24 16:14
accepting 180:22,23 79:1,3 alternative 210:4 apparent
227:19 243:14 115:5 79:9 213:15 152:6
accidentally adjust 228:1 119:18 altogether 215:4,5 262:10
214:6 admit 208:11 154:14 223:4 229:19 appear 249:8
accommod... Admits 163:20 American 230:6 262:2
87:6,14 202:25 166:2 218:13 235:22 APPEARAN...
account adopt 187:6 175:18 Americas 237:16,19 2:1
24:22 25:2 adopted 179:14 2:13 237:20 appeared
accumulati... 56:25 57:8 183:7 184:5 ammonia 242:12 151:21
220:9 61:14 184:8 94:4 273:20 Appearing
accurate 47:6 271:10 187:20 amount 281:11 2:5,11,15
181:3 307:3 adopts 54:24 194:1 18:22 19:5 290:16 appears
accurately adults 235:5 198:16,18 19:7 131:5 291:10,14 251:19
47:9 203:20 advance 10:7 229:10 196:14 answered application
203:24 220:3,24 251:7 256:5 208:10 35:21 79:7 29:23
acknowledge advantage 257:19 246:16 79:8 90:21 applied
252:11,12 295:13 agreed 59:23 ample 271:18 91:2,2,18 123:18
253:12 advice 176:21 62:19 274:12 91:19 163:9

612.338.3376
Page 310
applies Army 154:1 91:3,10 assuming attorney/cl... 123:23,24

176:16 Arps 2:6 6:16 116:3 131:9 130:22 61:17 124:4,14
196:1,5 6:20 167:7 172:3 203:23 attribute 131:3 144:9
apply 176:17 arrived 181:19 assumption 197:15 145:9
215:22 187:24 203:22 202:10 Aubry 239:2 155:17
appoints 53:1 arrow 250:11 208:15 230:24 239:3 156:13,22
appreciate article 3:3 220:1,2 231:4 244:8 302:15 167:12
185:3 4:3,8 41:23 aspect astronomic... audience 173:18
appreciated 42:23 43:3 201:14 197:13 169:24 206:8
206:6 43:14,16 206:5 229:9 AT&T 26:25 261:2 227:11
approach 44:17 45:1 assistance 27:1 August 3:18 245:18
76:22 93:20,22 190:3 athletes 185:10,18 246:5 253:2
167:22,23 201:18,21 286:12,15 160:1 185:24 253:14,19
225:23 202:7,13 287:1,6 259:16 Aurora 7:4 253:24
appropriate 203:17 288:5,16 272:3 10:19,21,23 259:19
187:12 204:7 289:1 290:2 274:19 10:24 11:5 264:17,20
286:8,21 232:11,24 associate 304:11 author 234:8 287:8
287:13 233:2,21 158:16 athletic 248:6 authored awareness
288:13 234:8 236:8 associated 248:7 298:14 46:13
289:11 255:9 126:14 297:22 authorized 123:19
295:6 article's 43:8 127:14,20 303:15 52:19,21 232:4
approval articles 45:4 159:25 Atlanta authors
52:20 60:9 155:15 187:9 299:21 271:5 B
64:11 276:2 279:23 271:24 attached 3:3 available B 2:2 7:3
approve articulate 274:15 4:17 41:23 15:13 16:1 294:2,8
81:13 284:6 276:18 42:22 191:6 295:2,2
approved aside 98:11 277:18,19 284:11 286:11 B-E-T-T
81:13 170:23 278:20 299:4 288:6,16 185:17
approxima... 207:18 299:11 attaches 296:24,25 baby 159:5
7:12 10:16 215:16 Associates 284:24 Avenue 2:13 back 12:9,25
12:5 23:2 asked 18:8 1:17 6:8 attachment avoid 79:10 15:10 34:2
April 3:23 70:24 71:1 153:7 3:24 197:23 aware 19:23 36:1 38:6
159:12 74:19 79:7 209:15 Attack 203:4 20:5 23:15 52:22 84:2
160:8 91:1,18 association attempt 27:22 28:16 84:8 87:25
197:21 156:17 46:17 55:5 102:15 28:25 31:10 88:5,16,24
198:4 157:1 57:7 61:13 270:20 32:18 33:3 89:5,9,16
archives 159:18 61:25 62:7 attend 22:20 33:15 35:16 89:23,23
202:21 165:1,8 62:17 63:16 23:2,7 24:7 36:3 41:14 90:9,17
area 81:17,19 167:6 67:14 98:10 53:18,25 41:18 54:20 91:11,21,24
82:6,9 181:23 101:16 140:7 308:6 54:23 55:8 92:5,13,20
152:8 154:6 182:24 153:7 attendance 63:2 65:14 93:25 94:5
263:6 183:11,24 162:15 209:2 67:13,18 94:15,22,23
294:22 210:2 205:13,14 210:14 69:3 70:14 95:17 96:3
298:23 231:13 218:22 211:3 70:19,21 96:11 98:20
areas 31:25 236:1 246:12 attention 71:6,24 98:25 99:7
294:1 243:16,23 248:8,9 186:5 190:8 75:14 82:22 99:10
arena 265:15 244:3,7 253:19 190:16 88:18 92:5 101:17
arguing 277:16 275:23 224:23 92:14 102:20
222:25 281:15 276:2,24 264:22 104:22 103:1
argument 301:4,10 296:21,25 286:6 115:12,16 112:14
47:8 302:11 298:20 attitude 4:5 115:20,23 117:17
argumenta... asking 9:5 assume 8:16 209:8,13,22 116:8,15,21 119:13
165:19 10:2 19:4 26:21 30:13 209:24 121:7,21,23 128:14
168:9 184:3 19:18 20:4 47:7 211:17 122:1,11,17 129:3,3,4,6
231:1,2 31:2 34:23 Assumes attorney 122:19,25 131:6
242:10 75:15 80:17 241:23 61:21 123:2,12,17 135:12,15

612.338.3376
Page 311
160:16 79:23 becoming 226:18,18 166:20 220:14

166:8 231:11 106:25 227:21 191:4 269:4 255:23
167:14,20 bare-knuckle 216:24 228:19 Bett 3:19 257:9
172:1 114:15 beer 89:13 229:17 185:11,17 BlackBerry
180:19 161:14 befell 168:16 230:16,21 185:24 27:7
182:19 162:2 began 35:5 231:7 232:8 better 50:3 Blake 98:2,7
183:12,16 bare-knuck... 124:14 235:11 94:21 95:15 98:8
183:18 109:21,24 beginning 238:9 95:24 97:10 blast 286:9
188:2 200:2 bargained 136:1 159:9 242:20,21 99:20 101:6 288:14
200:5 276:24 160:17 243:6 116:16 blind-side
211:10 bargaining 174:14 246:11,16 158:11 280:25
216:23 54:6 62:8 236:10 246:20 207:15 blood 170:21
219:3,4 62:16 242:18 247:3,5,8 265:24 board 3:15
221:16 barked 98:18 260:14 253:18 291:12,13 6:18,21 7:1
236:10,18 98:19 99:6 begotten 255:18,20 292:8 23:16,22,25
236:25 barrage 157:14 256:24 Bettman 24:4,7
240:4,16 203:6 behalf 6:13 265:12 25:20 26:19 25:16 31:12
254:8 265:9 Barry 259:10 6:15,17 271:10 27:11 59:5 31:15 32:17
265:16 260:7,15 285:1 272:16 60:12 84:11 33:4,11
269:23 bars 258:17 behavioral 274:2 277:1 85:19 86:5 37:5 51:24
281:24 base 79:25 303:10 295:15 86:8 114:5 52:12,19,23
294:13 152:3 178:9 beholder 302:25 124:25 53:18 54:14
297:14 178:11 170:11 304:21 126:22 54:20,23
background based 14:6 Belak 213:8 believes 127:12 55:16,22
270:7,12 48:2 80:1 214:14 216:2 213:1 216:1 56:8,17
271:14 90:12 254:14 bell 89:25 216:15 57:1,9
backing 103:11 286:3 90:8,18,20 224:20,21 59:18,24
164:10 154:15 Belak's 91:14,15 255:7,11 60:7 61:14
167:12 181:8 214:17 94:1 95:16 260:19 62:10 63:15
backyard 200:15 believe 18:10 96:4,12 264:1 64:9 68:6,8
139:11,12 228:17 20:13 26:9 97:12 98:23 269:13,16 69:5 74:13
bad 49:21 229:3 232:4 27:18 29:8 101:10 293:13 75:15 76:18
50:2 103:24 baseline 35:12 37:18 107:20 Bettman's 77:11,18,22
Badaszewski 270:18,20 54:22 57:5 bench 93:25 58:6 80:19 81:12
2:17 6:9 294:12 79:19,22 98:18 99:5 big 49:20,25 83:16 87:22
balance bases 248:12 87:3,13 benefit 160:5 50:2 101:2,8,15
212:14 basically 91:5 103:12 160:5 bigger 218:12 123:25
ball 189:11 54:19 111:5 116:5 289:14 Bill 57:14 149:23
balls 119:10 132:16 136:5,5 Bergeron 59:10 93:13 150:5,12
119:23 260:25 137:1 156:8 128:5,12 216:12 153:16
ban 66:2,24 basis 31:20 157:1,18 130:3,15 254:13 154:16
72:22 75:16 31:22 158:14 131:9,15,22 285:1,7 155:7
80:19 180:8 220:24 161:25 131:25 289:14 156:23
180:11 282:25 187:6 188:7 132:5 290:8 160:19
204:23 286:13 188:10 133:18 293:13 161:25
228:20 288:24 191:3 134:5 283:2 299:19 173:13
banned 71:14 basketball 193:20 Bergeron's Billy 289:6 196:1
71:24 79:15 175:4 194:13 133:3,12 biomechan... 204:25
87:4,15 195:20 198:20 Berland 104:9 219:12
224:2 206:22 200:17 209:15 biomechan... 233:15
banning 207:16 201:5 Berman 294:15,17 241:20
74:14 76:1 Bates 297:23 203:15 158:12,13 bit 103:11 242:16
76:12 78:22 298:6 205:4 214:9 160:7,9 112:9 243:17
78:23 79:4 Bates-stam... 215:14 293:14 135:16,17 244:2 245:6
79:5 229:4 43:12 221:18 best 151:25 136:3 260:5 276:4
bans 65:15 Bear 163:24 224:11 166:16,17 200:13 284:15,17

612.338.3376
Page 312
284:20 176:4 84:12 85:21 14:19 15:12 92:24 93:23 108:2,19

285:6,19,20 187:11 96:20,21,22 15:25 16:18 bus 89:14 109:23
291:2,23 282:6 97:24 16:21,25 business 110:21,25
boards 194:4 boxing 159:12 17:23 21:3 15:6 16:19 112:20
Bob 107:12 174:16 212:4,25 21:4,21 16:19,22,25 113:4,13,16
107:13 175:2,9,12 215:21 22:6,9 23:4 25:17 26:1 113:22
Boca 2:4 175:15 216:12,14 25:11 32:14 49:9 201:10 114:2
139:11,16 Boy 210:10 217:24,25 36:11 38:5 201:12 117:13
140:2 brackets Brendan's 48:6,11 204:24 119:4,6
141:20 271:18 218:18,22 49:11,21 business-like 164:20,21
150:19,20 Bradley 218:22 50:2,12 41:8 164:25
165:23 111:14,14 225:15 51:18 53:10 busy 108:18 165:2
body 66:22 111:22 Brian 3:23 53:10,14 button 166:12,14
78:9 93:14 brain 104:6 92:23,24 82:12,17 243:15 166:24
103:6 124:5,16 93:23 85:2 94:16 244:13,19 167:11
162:10 144:16,18 197:22 111:20 buying 15:13 181:2,11,20
184:23 144:19,21 198:2 112:11 16:25 183:1,4,4
201:6 208:6 144:22 briefly 84:9 119:22 184:12
262:12 145:10,11 bring 75:7 123:12 C 185:12,16
273:10 145:11,23 203:14 127:18 C 7:3,3 294:2 186:4
BOG 139:14 147:8,13,17 224:23 131:4,14 294:14 187:17
151:2 147:22,25 225:24 170:24 295:1 189:1,20
Boogaard 148:9,20 226:11 198:4,11 C-A-T-A-L-... 190:23
214:22 149:3,7,20 265:17,19 247:7,9 189:21 191:13,25
Boogaard's 159:24 broad 86:15 275:11 C.S 3:19,21 192:5
215:1 178:25 broadcast 276:3 282:6 185:11,16 202:25
Boston 7:23 179:6,14,23 172:9,25 301:23,24 188:25 203:1,7,19
13:23 14:18 180:7 173:23 305:1 Calgary 92:25 203:23
21:3,4 22:6 216:23 174:1 Bruins-Buff... call 25:8 204:6,10
25:11 84:20 221:17 283:14,15 172:10 85:21 213:1 216:1
89:18 93:14 222:5 broadcasters bruins.org 125:11 Campbell's
94:16 131:4 237:11,13 176:9 25:1 130:12 106:23
140:10 247:19 broadcasting Bryan 2:12 199:4 182:11
172:10 248:15 16:9 283:10 6:23 243:13 192:22
173:5 198:4 250:11,13 283:12 Buffalo 1:18 298:25 Canada 59:3
198:11 250:16,18 broadest 14:6 15:9 called 7:5 107:22
275:10 252:4,14 136:16 23:5 89:18 42:23 62:8 186:3
276:3 259:2 268:5 broken 82:8 100:10 93:15 Canadian
Boston's 279:24 207:8 107:25 112:11 42:25
172:25 280:2,3 brother 100:3 168:23 209:14 107:22
bottom 50:24 291:4 100:4,21 173:17 267:1,3,17 153:6
69:17 300:16,25 101:13,18 259:8,15,25 calling 83:8 215:20
152:15,19 301:8,12 102:1 260:4 calls 30:25 216:9
160:10 302:6 129:20 263:16 61:16 90:22 Cantu 222:17
174:13 brains 122:3 258:18,18 264:13 calming 302:16
201:25 123:5 brought 266:14,15 207:19 capability
202:1 203:1 292:17 101:2 267:3,10 Cam 53:15 27:3 273:12
210:20 brand 207:23 182:21,25 269:7 85:21 capable
212:24 break 65:7 183:3 272:16 140:24 191:7
261:21 83:22 135:8 208:16 279:9,12 282:24 capacities
298:6 297:5 226:5 building 1:17 Campbell 105:25
bounce breaking 227:22 16:21,25 3:19,22 capacity 6:25
189:12 207:17 264:21 bullet 69:16 105:19,20 7:22 43:18
Bourque breaks 8:20 Brown 42:17 bump 230:18 105:21,22 156:9
283:1 8:22,23 Bruins 7:23 bunch 85:8 106:4 204:20
box 174:13 Brendan 13:23 14:2 Burke 92:23 107:12 caps 111:4

612.338.3376
Page 313
225:1,2,5 272:1 303:23 250:19,20 111:14 261:10

capture 275:12 certification changed chose 239:11 clinical
270:20 276:6 152:25 20:22 33:24 chronic 144:1 303:11
captured 303:25 certified 34:9,14,18 144:7,11 close 66:8
172:9 caused 136:1 76:12 303:9 69:15
Carcillo 115:17 CERTIFY 104:20 chronologi... 139:23
111:13,22 146:8 307:1 308:5 106:1 116:2 159:16 186:17
Carcillo's 254:22 cetera 187:11 116:6 166:8 Cigarran 287:25
111:23 causes 104:9 194:8 166:9 223:6,7 closely 77:24
care 250:16 149:7 chain 3:4,12 228:22 224:20,25 closer 76:20
career 45:18 causing 3:16 4:9,14 changes 226:3,5 134:22,22
132:9,12,15 191:7 4:15,16,18 17:15 55:10 227:14 club's 172:6
132:24 cautiously 58:21 59:1 60:8 64:10 circuit 163:8 298:22
284:2,5 304:9 118:25 225:25 circulated clubhouses
300:25 Cave 2:12 119:4 231:8 239:11 246:18
career-end... 6:24 158:23 270:20 circumstan... clubs 2:16
132:19 CBA 59:15 159:9 303:10 63:11 85:25 6:25
careers 134:1 62:7,9,14 238:15,21 304:2 102:4 103:4 CLVS 2:17
225:14 62:19,21 239:1 255:3 Chara 66:17 103:22 coach 107:1
255:16 63:7,14 255:7 283:3 136:6 117:10
carrier 24:24 64:2,5 260:10,13 character 304:18 119:9
carries CBC 107:25 266:1,5 165:11 cited 165:10 240:11
227:25 cc 299:5,10 292:24 characterize Civil 1:16 coaches
carry 273:11 299:13 chair 41:19 182:7 claim 100:16 22:15
case 6:5 26:9 300:3 46:16 charge 31:24 153:3 155:2 105:15
53:24 cc.ing 84:12 142:11 32:2 243:1 claimed 119:21
140:17 CDC 249:9 chairman 266:20 154:22 cobwebs
175:3 191:2 cease 193:8 13:25 14:5 Charlie 13:22 claims 153:6 94:2
191:19,21 204:14 24:4 74:13 53:15 154:24 cochair
217:18 cell 26:22 76:18 100:4 140:25 Clarence 233:12
223:1 232:9 261:25 100:15 chart 210:12 164:20,21 coexisting
303:21,21 centuries 159:11 chat 85:20 164:25 304:3
304:8 154:8 165:2,3 check 66:21 165:2 181:2 cohorts
casual 77:7 CEO 14:9 241:20 110:7 181:11,20 303:19
86:24 92:25 242:16 158:11 182:11,25 cold 150:18
229:12 CEOs 14:12 245:6 206:13 183:4,4 Colin 105:18
230:17 14:13 266:13 checked 184:12 105:20,21
Catalano certain 22:10 267:15 66:11 189:4 105:22
3:21 188:25 53:5 103:4 269:2 276:4 checking 204:18 106:4 119:4
189:21,23 103:21 291:1 66:8 71:11 clarify 183:17 collateral
catch 118:16 106:2 129:2 chance 98:13 Cheers 194:21 291:18
catching 136:6 change 55:19 239:16 clean 220:18 colleagues
99:12 137:22 55:24 56:17 Chiarelli 220:18 239:20
catching/i... 138:16 56:18,25 69:12 236:15 collect
98:22 144:9 57:8 63:17 140:11,12 clear 145:21 295:12
catering 15:7 229:13 66:24 76:1 140:17 208:18 collected
caught 58:9 251:4 76:23 78:14 141:6,17 281:24 26:7 291:23
causality 255:18 85:23 87:7 150:20 clear-cut collective
303:23 277:13 87:15 216:2 Chicago 223:13 54:6 62:8
causation 306:13 225:18,19 240:5 cleared 94:2 62:16
304:7 certainly 225:23 chief 57:16 clearing 273:18
cause 104:16 111:13 226:21 children 240:9 291:22
178:23 179:13 228:9,11,16 12:16 13:15 clearly 77:6 collectively
229:15 203:13 229:5,17 CHL 217:8 201:5 166:18
250:12,18 241:8 250:3 230:20 choice 113:8 Clever 263:23 224:8
264:18 certainty 231:10 choices clinic 259:25 228:15

612.338.3376
Page 314
276:24 59:5 84:11 10:3 61:17 241:21 concussion concussion...

college 216:8 85:19 86:5 61:21 244:1 245:2 1:8 4:11,12 303:10
217:11 86:8 124:25 263:25 complicated 6:4 11:18 concussions
colleges 124:25,25 community 162:20,21 11:21 12:10 28:17 29:2
215:18 125:1,3,4 269:7 162:23 12:15 27:20 31:14,22
column 46:7 125:12 company 163:3 27:23 28:6 34:18 35:2
46:9 203:1 126:22 14:5,6,10 complicati... 28:15,24 36:22 37:14
combination 127:4,12 16:4 209:14 100:1 29:7,12 37:18,23
16:20 244:10,20 262:15 complied 30:1,14 38:17,24
234:22 244:22 compassion 26:3 33:13 31:11 32:12 40:4,23
come 17:19 245:13,15 289:22 242:19 32:19 33:5 41:2 43:8
37:18 66:21 245:17 compassio... 244:4,8,23 33:13,16 44:14,18,22
86:24 260:19 289:13,18 245:8 35:4,17 45:9,19
128:10 264:1 competency complying 36:3,9,12 47:21 83:18
129:3,3,6 269:13,16 63:19 26:5 244:14 36:17 39:25 91:21 93:24
154:6 commit competent compound 41:19 46:13 99:21
161:20 168:22 20:14 22:11 72:7 46:16 81:10 100:22
162:9,11 committed 151:14 concept 81:21 82:1 101:1,4,7,9
170:21 168:12 176:22 225:5 82:22,25 102:1 103:2
171:17 169:5 213:9 235:5 concern 83:12 103:14
212:12 213:11,18 237:16,18 66:23 101:17 104:10,17
234:18,20 214:5 240:21,22 111:23 104:4 121:1 104:25
281:5 286:18 273:22,23 134:4 124:3,13 120:8,18
283:17 287:11 competes 185:25 130:6,9,9 121:18,24
305:18 288:8,8 165:23 264:8 137:15 122:11,14
comes 81:22 289:8 competition 305:24 138:23 123:14
206:12 committee 55:2,4,8,17 concerned 142:6,10 136:4,12,16
215:21 51:23 52:5 55:23 56:3 37:1 50:23 143:18 137:11,22
218:17 52:12,18 56:16,24 120:10 150:23 138:16
233:19 55:2,4,9,17 59:17,23 133:23 151:22,24 142:13
273:16 55:23 56:3 60:9 62:10 134:9 153:4,13 146:20
282:5,6 56:16,24 63:16 64:10 concerning 155:4,11 147:13
coming 93:25 59:18,23 116:6,7 27:12 32:19 157:19 148:8,19
131:6 219:2 60:9 62:10 162:14 33:4 231:24 149:7,8
219:4 63:17 64:11 219:2 concerns 233:13 152:22,24
281:23 116:6,7,14 227:23 133:2,11,17 235:13 153:10
commencing 162:14 246:14 concluded 239:12 154:8,18
1:19 219:2 269:1 306:10,17 240:2 156:24
comment 227:23 complete Concluding 241:18,21 160:11
62:1 90:3 239:12 73:24 306:6 242:17 216:23
160:15 246:14 184:25 conclusion 243:1,18 221:17
222:24 265:22 186:13 149:12 246:22 231:18
227:18 committees completely 162:11 247:22 233:16,19
236:19 246:15 162:3 168:7 289:11 248:23 245:8
279:4 common 169:15 conclusions 258:25 250:17
commented 107:16 212:16 286:21 259:25 253:5,12
59:5 167:5 179:21 224:2 230:5 287:14 261:10,25 255:25
Commission commonly 230:11 290:9 270:21 257:10,12
159:1,12 175:2 247:25 concuss 271:20 257:21
commissio... communica... 248:19 31:18 137:3 274:13 258:12,24
134:14 25:19 259:7 273:21 concussed 293:21 259:8,16
commissio... communica... complex 122:21 294:24 261:12
25:20 26:19 16:4 224:20 118:20 237:11,13 300:14,16 262:14
27:11 52:8 259:19 complexity 238:3 300:18 264:18
57:18,19 263:7 46:14 concussing 301:4,11 265:1,5
58:6,9,16 communica... compliance 136:19 305:20 271:21,24

612.338.3376
Page 315
272:1 268:2 consume contribute 144:17 10:17 48:15

274:14,14 conformed 166:19 304:4 146:21 159:13,14
274:16 162:14 Consumer contributed 150:7 172:22
275:4,12 confusing 158:25 286:20 157:16,23 254:3 297:4
276:6,17,19 24:17 159:11 287:12,18 173:1,2 course 70:14
278:14,19 Congratula... Cont 4:1 287:22 175:15 81:18 86:24
278:24 13:15 contact 51:5 288:9 289:9 188:4 191:9 273:19
281:9 connection 51:6,9 66:6 290:3 195:12 282:13
290:20 7:22 169:1 66:12,22 control 210:20 302:13
291:2 175:1 215:2 78:8,9 203:15 222:1,19 court 1:5 6:6
294:10,21 215:23 79:10 85:24 208:10 227:6,9 6:7 8:9,25
296:16 connects 86:18,24 controlled 233:16,19 16:10
302:7 168:20 125:11 18:11 250:25 cover 43:17
303:16,25 consciousn... 138:21 conversation 269:10 198:13,13
concussive... 240:4,16,22 147:8,14 86:5,14 272:24 273:14
154:3 consensus 148:9,20 132:17 285:13 301:20
condition 233:24 186:17 141:19 286:4 covered
62:19 63:1 consent 194:3 205:9 215:7 293:14 248:11
63:3 75:7 56:16 218:6 conversati... 299:8,12,17 CPSC 159:21
144:15,17 consequen... 226:19,19 10:11 300:4,8,9 160:5
178:21 46:20 47:25 229:13 124:22,24 305:1,15 Crapanzano
237:2 180:16 263:8 126:11,21 corrective 2:8 6:19,19
276:21 203:11 303:17 127:4,12,17 286:22 created
292:18,19 consider 20:8 context 215:3 287:14 247:12
conditions 20:11 37:4 128:21,22 COO 92:24 correctly creating 60:7
63:8,11 40:2 175:8 128:25 Cooke 108:5 194:13 creation 15:8
250:17 227:23 142:4 108:8,12 corresponds credentials
condolences considerati... 193:14 coordinate 160:7 184:20
138:9 162:13 218:1 235:9 295:10 corridor credibility
conduct 163:23 236:1 273:2 copied 202:6 266:14,21 267:13
187:10 237:8 238:1 continue 299:11 266:23 credible
198:19 considered 69:21 113:2 copies 68:5 267:1,2,4 268:12
295:24 20:16 70:9 132:11 69:7 cost 225:5,12 cribs 159:5
conducted 87:1 208:9 133:15,24 copy 141:2 cost/benefit crimes 203:7
26:1 36:10 208:9 240:6 198:5,5,14 236:21 crisscrossed
194:15 227:24 continued 267:6 costly 49:6 268:17
207:22 considering 29:18 cork 158:9 counsel 6:10 critics 186:22
208:12,19 39:1 continuing correct 13:24 10:3,5 26:3 cross-section
220:25 consist 305:19 16:13 19:10 27:12 42:19 129:11
conducting 270:24 contract 23:23 24:4 42:20 52:6 cross-secti...
25:16 consistent 21:23 30:17 31:15 57:16 70:24 63:11
261:11 88:8 160:13 280:20,21 34:15 36:18 73:23 127:6 crosses 44:18
conduit 261:1 262:14 contracting 39:21 48:8 127:24,24 CRR 1:20
confidential constant 245:20 48:13 50:13 158:14,15 308:19
306:12 205:10 246:7 52:17 53:2 158:16 cry 186:22
confirm constitution 247:17 54:25 55:2 159:10 CTE 143:1,2,7
214:11 54:2,18 contractual 59:11 79:24 213:22 143:7,12,14
confirmed 55:9 56:7 62:15,25 91:25 94:24 215:1 234:3 143:20
213:19 61:10 63:3 96:19 101:3 249:12 145:9,24
conflict 116:13,13 contradict 112:22 301:3 146:6,18
267:18,21 constitutio... 64:17 115:1 302:11 222:4,7,8
267:22,23 176:24 contradicto... 117:19 country 222:16,18
268:3,10 construed 192:12 135:19,20 186:3 218:9 280:3,7
conflicting 289:17 contrary 138:5,6,6 COUNTY 303:13,16
268:18 consultant 187:3 140:8 308:3 303:20,25
conflicts 142:9 281:25 142:19 couple 7:20 304:8,12,19

612.338.3376
Page 316
CTV 59:3 256:5 198:4 78:20 79:2 148:16,23 213:23

cumulative 257:19 209:13 79:11,21 149:13,25 214:2,9,13
241:1 285:1,7 213:1 233:2 81:2 83:11 154:13,25 215:8 219:8
Cup 235:2 287:10 285:5 83:21 84:6 155:24 219:15
cure 268:23 288:7 293:14 86:16 87:2 156:1,12,19 220:12,14
curiosity 289:14,23 297:12,20 87:12,20 157:5 220:20,22
177:6 290:8,13 dates 125:20 88:10 89:1 158:24 221:2,24
curious 293:13 daughter's 90:16 91:3 160:24 223:2
162:22 299:19 158:11 91:9,20 161:13,19 224:16
current 14:4 Daly's 60:23 David 68:22 92:4,11,18 162:8 225:11
21:4 114:3 65:3 256:16 68:22 93:10 94:10 163:18 228:19
140:21 258:4 Davidson 2:1 94:13,20 164:15 229:2,20
152:25 damage 5:3 6:12,12 95:4,9,12 165:6,12,14 230:9,23
155:18 147:16,21 7:7 10:6 95:20 96:1 166:1 167:8 231:2,6,16
198:21 149:1 17:8,21 96:9,17 168:10,24 232:6,15,18
253:24,24 225:13 18:5,12 97:21 99:8 169:13,22 232:21
295:3 250:13 19:3,8,14 99:15,18 170:14 234:4,7,9
currently 301:1,8,12 20:4,7 21:1 101:24 171:4,8,13 234:12
10:18 53:13 302:6 21:10,14,16 103:18 171:14,19 235:10,17
153:5,11 damaging 21:19 24:20 105:5,12 172:8,12,14 235:24
155:9 287:8 186:2 27:16 28:21 106:8,15,21 172:16,18 236:5 237:9
296:15 203:11 29:5,20 107:8 110:6 172:20,24 237:20,23
customary Dan 280:9 30:12,21 110:10,18 175:25 237:24
81:7 dangerous 31:2,4,8,9 112:13 176:23 238:16
cut 73:23 187:2,18,22 32:25 33:2 113:15 177:5,7,18 241:5 242:2
206:14 187:25 33:10,21 114:23 177:20,22 242:7,14
208:18 193:21 34:3,5,13 116:3,8,11 179:8,20 243:9,25
cutting 16:14 Darren 59:2 34:23,25 116:15,20 180:1,13,25 244:11
261:7 59:10 35:9,13,15 117:22 181:7,22,25 246:2,4,23
Cynthia dash 234:1 36:8 37:3 118:3,11,15 182:2,9,15 248:2,7,9
284:23 234:18 37:11 38:3 118:19,21 182:23 248:13,21
285:2 38:10,21,25 119:1,20 183:14,17 248:25
D data 153:5 40:9 41:10 120:3,22 183:19,22 249:13,15
d 2:17 294:2 156:22 41:24,25 121:5,14,22 185:13 249:18,22
294:22 157:4,6,10 45:2,5,7,14 122:8,18 188:13,19 250:5,6
295:1 299:5 160:4,11 46:1 47:19 123:1,9,21 189:2,10,13 251:18,24
299:10 164:9,16 48:20,24 124:11,12 189:17 252:1,7,9
300:3 167:12 49:17,19 124:21 190:15 253:1,10,21
D-R-E-G-E-R 245:1 50:22 51:15 125:8,13,15 192:15 254:3,10
59:3 270:19,23 55:15 56:13 125:25 193:7,15 255:4
Daly 57:14 271:19 56:23 57:6 126:9,20 194:2,20,25 256:11,14
58:9,16 274:12 57:13,20 127:9 128:3 195:1,9,18 256:20,22
59:3,4,10 275:3 277:7 58:14,22 132:2 133:5 196:9,13,19 258:1,9,21
59:14 60:3 294:13 61:4 62:2 133:10 197:1,7,11 258:23
60:4,13 date 59:22 63:9,12,21 134:3,12 197:24 259:6
61:2,5 64:5 151:14 64:16,19,24 135:4,7,14 200:4,23 260:11
64:8 80:24 202:14 65:1 66:7 136:9 137:7 201:9,19 262:8,24
81:3 93:13 249:11,23 66:16 67:12 137:15,17 202:16,20 265:2,6
213:1 294:13 67:19,23 137:19 202:23 266:2
215:24 dated 3:18,20 70:20 71:3 139:4 204:5 207:4 271:12
216:1,12 3:23 4:19 71:5 72:12 142:24 208:25 272:14
217:10 43:3 185:10 72:21 73:7 143:24 209:10 274:10
219:11,16 185:17 74:6,22 144:5,17,20 210:7,8 275:1,9,17
219:22 188:24 75:13,20 145:1,3,6,8 211:13 275:25
254:13,16 189:20 76:6,9,16 145:17 212:21,22 276:16
255:8,22 197:21 77:10,21 146:4 213:16,20 277:2,4,21

612.338.3376
Page 317
277:23 decades demonstra... 257:11,13 155:9 238:2 251:17

278:3,16,21 154:8 225:18 258:13 242:23 265:4
279:6 280:8 deceased dentistry 272:3 detracted 279:22
282:15 144:18,21 82:14 274:18 289:19 differentiat...
284:12 December deny 232:4 281:20 devastating 238:10
290:25 98:16 denying Deputy 57:18 44:21 differently
291:9,16,24 110:22,23 238:10,10 57:19 58:16 development 73:4 74:4
292:6 293:1 110:24 department Derek 214:22 153:8 88:4,16
293:11 126:1 233:3 263:15 described devoted 89:6,8 90:7
295:23 decide 269:2 130:8 185:1 90:15,19
296:4,13 269:20 depend 136:24 diagnose 91:13
297:2,7 decided 249:22 description 120:17 195:11
298:2 292:1 depending 3:2 4:2 122:13,13 208:4
300:10 deciding 161:11 114:13 129:14 221:19
302:2,8,24 241:2 depends 30:3 deserves diagnosed 223:12
303:4,7 decision 114:13 163:22 34:8,17 dilemma
306:5,15 74:20 231:18 design 91:21 157:20
Davis 7:4 175:11 292:14 270:10 121:17 direct 264:7
day 12:8,11 198:6,15 deponent 294:19 144:10 305:15
25:5 133:11 204:23,25 308:13 designated 145:23 directed
168:22 205:1 deposition 297:25 diagnosing 67:10 77:7
222:18 207:21 1:1 7:10,21 designed 123:13 directing
228:1 231:9 219:5 8:1,6,25 103:14 diagnosis 190:11
286:2 234:15,22 9:25 10:8 104:16,18 28:17 29:1 direction
days 38:5 decisions 42:3 58:24 147:15,20 33:23 153:20
98:18 99:1 30:9 52:16 59:1 64:9 147:24 dictate 154:2 254:1
99:5 113:17 deep 167:4 67:25 84:10 149:1,19 179:21 308:11
141:20 defendants 93:12 97:23 152:23 die 258:20 directions
213:6 303:1 107:10 desire 14:23 died 145:24 17:20
de-designate defending 110:19 78:14 214:22 directly 278:4
306:14 205:11 119:3 139:6 desk 43:21 258:18 296:22
dead 144:16 define 183:11 140:1 150:2 44:18 difference director
144:19,22 defined 77:6 160:17 destination 52:11 72:2 41:15
145:11,11 82:5 171:9 139:21 77:5 111:2 disability
218:19 definitely 185:15 destroy 170:3 111:10 134:10
deal 14:22 157:9 189:19 detail 286:19 differences 280:19
102:17 165:23 198:1 287:11,17 85:22 disabled
162:17 170:2 251:6 201:21 287:21 different 18:7 132:10
200:11 definition 209:12 288:9 289:8 19:2 20:6 disadvanta...
305:21 67:9 81:22 220:5,6 details 217:5 52:9 56:15 257:3
dealt 93:23 134:23 221:1 determinat... 72:10,14,19 disagree 79:1
198:19 178:7 224:19 274:1 72:24 73:3 79:3 99:16
dear 185:24 183:24 232:23 determine 73:5,8 111:17
189:22 184:2 238:18 116:17 74:11 86:18 148:1,22,24
273:9 195:22 246:25 155:23 88:1 89:19 163:21
death 214:17 Delaware 249:2 255:6 156:4 89:20 91:12 222:22
254:14 14:5 25:13 260:13 207:22 103:8 226:15
261:25 delay 225:5 266:4 293:3 208:12,20 111:22 258:3
288:2 225:12 302:13 222:20 138:4 302:22
292:18,19 delineated 306:11,17 303:22 157:22 304:14
deaths 54:17 88:18 308:7,9,11 determined 158:1 disagreem...
254:17,21 deliver 78:17 depressed 209:1 161:11 148:10
287:18,22 dementia 281:21 determines 178:22,23 disappointed
288:2,10 295:4,7,15 depression 273:19 184:15,15 239:20
debate 111:1 dementing 44:20 45:9 determining 218:3,4,16 disciplinary
111:10 304:4 169:8 256:1 153:12 234:25 203:15

612.338.3376
Page 318
discipline 245:21 1:9 4:4,10 dozen 7:14 89:13 239:1,8,9

69:22 97:3 246:8 4:12 43:12 7:17 drop 137:2,3 239:10,17
208:6,7,8 247:17,19 46:3 71:2 Dr 32:4,7 drove 216:22 255:3,6
disciplined 252:4,15 75:3 148:19 39:14,24 221:16 260:10,13
176:1,12 253:6 259:2 202:17,24 40:12,19,22 Drs 146:15 261:14
207:8 diseases 209:8,13,16 41:14,18 299:24 263:7,25,25
disciplining 134:15 209:21 47:9,25 drug 304:3 266:1,5,6
173:11 dislike 208:2 246:22 48:3 142:17 due 245:21 267:5
176:14 dispute 64:12 247:1 142:17 246:8 284:11,14
disclose 10:2 96:5 98:24 248:23 143:6 147:2 277:24 285:17
61:21 108:22 249:3,11,20 147:12,22 281:8 286:9
discourage 110:1 113:9 250:4 148:2,25 duly 7:5 288:14
187:13 113:13 260:22 149:5 308:13 292:24
discovered 155:11,13 279:3 293:4 151:16,16 duplicated 293:12,20
100:17 disregard 297:20 152:9,13,17 268:19 e-mail's
discovering 186:13 298:14,16 152:21 duties 54:14 284:22
292:21 disrespect 298:21,25 153:2,10,15 54:16 e-mails 3:7,9
discuss 52:7 187:10 299:3,10 154:15 4:6,7 25:25
186:4 199:3 distinct 301:14,15 155:7 E 26:8 84:5
254:20 303:14 301:22 222:17,17 E 7:3,3,3 97:20 119:6
discussed distinction 302:25 222:17,17 e-mail 3:3,4 212:19
31:14 37:23 76:24 86:9 303:5 233:7,8 3:8,10,11 224:15
83:16 86:17 documents 234:14,17 3:12,16 4:9 270:15
128:23 distinctions 23:13,16 236:2,23 4:14,15,16 E-N-S-T-I-...
151:5 86:1 24:6 202:5 239:1,2,8 4:17,18 266:6
219:10 distraction doing 42:16 239:18 24:21 25:2 e.g 85:24
discussing 201:8 65:6 77:22 252:18,19 25:2,4,7,11 earlier 39:6
193:1 distributing 78:1 98:9 253:3,3,20 25:13,17,20 135:18
discussion 298:21 106:1 117:2 259:10,13 25:22 41:23 136:3
59:13 131:8 District 1:5,5 134:22,23 260:7,15,21 42:3,22 142:16
141:5,9 6:6,6 138:12 261:3,15,16 58:21 59:1 160:16
142:3,4 dizziness 163:11 261:20,20 59:2 60:13 200:13
151:1,3 300:18 166:15 261:23 64:15 68:13 220:5,6,8
153:25 do-gooders 189:24 262:1,1,2 68:15 84:11 233:9
171:25 186:12 198:9 205:6 263:4,4,11 85:18 86:4 301:15
177:5 docs 239:10 218:22 268:22 93:9,13,15 early 15:10
199:23 doctor 30:10 242:17 299:13,20 97:24 98:15 15:15 38:5
224:22 39:11 96:18 269:24 299:20,22 107:7,10,11 50:6 261:24
226:2 259:5 129:17 278:9 281:2 299:25 108:2,4,9 270:13
284:9 293:6 168:22 282:1,10 302:14,14 110:7,13,20 300:21
306:8,9 237:7 283:10 302:15,16 110:24 easier 52:15
discussions 239:18 286:16 drafted 111:5 East 2:3 7:4
12:13 31:11 240:23 289:2 115:13 112:15 10:19,21,23
32:18 33:3 247:25 296:14 dramatic 118:25 10:24 11:5
127:10 279:20 Don 53:16 85:23 119:4 Echemendia
128:17 doctors 30:23 140:22 dramatically 158:23 32:4 39:8
131:10,14 253:23 door 273:17 226:21 159:8,9 39:14 40:12
132:6 254:1 259:7 doubt 119:14 229:17 212:24,25 40:19,22
214:15,16 273:15 119:18,18 drawn 286:22 213:6 41:6,14,18
215:1,11 274:21 145:1 287:14 215:25 46:15 47:9
disease 39:22 300:1 198:18 289:11 219:23,24 47:25 48:3
124:6,16 302:13,19 274:20 290:10 221:7 142:11,17
133:19 302:20 Douglas 2:2 Dreger 59:2,4 224:19,21 143:6
134:6 303:12 6:14,14 59:10,13 224:25 146:15
143:20 304:13 Dowd 2:1 60:5 238:15,21 151:16
144:20 document 6:13,15 drinking 238:25 152:13

612.338.3376
Page 319
233:7,8 223:22 67:15 entailed 157:13 82:11

234:14,17 232:3 encephalo... 141:10 evaluation 175:19
234:21 238:12 144:1,7,11 entertaining 208:1 234:24
235:2 236:2 241:10 Enclosed 67:7 221:23 240:7
236:19,23 273:16 198:14 entire 43:12 237:2 241:1 examples
239:2 305:14 298:13 60:13 64:15 286:14 124:4
252:19 ejected encloses entirely 287:1,5 228:19
253:3,21,22 194:17 198:5,5 236:22 288:25 exceed
261:3,15,16 195:23 encourage entitled 4:4 290:1 205:17
261:20 Elad 267:15 187:5 4:10,12 event 23:21 exceeds
302:14 269:2 endorsed 43:8 53:6 24:9 257:18 184:20
Echemendi... 273:22 59:18 209:8,13 events 9:15 excited
39:24 262:2 Elad's 273:4 endurance 233:3 45:18 73:12 110:15
Echevaria elect 235:3 8:22 246:22 everybody exciting
253:20 electronica... energy 248:23 70:12 110:9,11
262:15 24:19 147:17,22 255:10 135:21 excuse 16:8
Eddie 167:14 electrophy... 147:24 298:15 178:21 39:21 71:10
Edmonton 270:25 149:2,6,19 299:4 224:12 101:14
140:20 eliminate 292:22 308:12 evidence 182:19,19
educate 71:12 162:2 enforce 73:17 environment 149:14 185:21
69:24 180:7 73:21 74:4 78:18 154:23 201:23
educated 205:20,22 enforced epidemiolo... 155:1 227:1
33:16 229:12,14 70:2 74:24 303:19 164:10 235:18
educational 229:16 80:2,7 equipment 182:25 executive
298:14 230:21 enforcement 152:22 183:6 51:23 52:5
effect 65:22 255:12 32:19 33:5 294:14 211:23 52:12,18
121:9 eliminating 225:15 equipped 229:3,25 57:17 198:2
131:21 210:13 enforcer 116:17 230:10 exercise
178:23 255:14,14 168:15 era 50:2 241:23 261:11,23
229:15 Elliot 159:10 enforcers Eric 44:19 303:9 271:1
290:19 else's 224:12 168:12 ERIE 308:3 evident exercising
effect's embraced 169:4 erred 240:23 111:13 262:12
178:23 218:13 216:25 escapes 16:5 evokes Exeter 273:6
effective emerging 221:7 especially 186:21 EXH 3:3,4,5,7
156:4 294:22 enforcing 160:1 205:9 evolved 3:8,9,10,11
effectiveness emphasized 80:14 291:20 89:21 164:5 3:12,13,14
153:1,9 277:17 engage ESPN 172:6 evolving 3:16,17,18
286:17 empirical 249:10 ESQ 2:1,2,7,8 153:19 3:20,23 4:3
289:3 164:9,13 engaged 2:13 262:22 4:4,6,7,8,9
effects 122:3 165:1,11,12 159:22 establishes ex-hockey 4:10,12,14
123:4 165:13 England 54:21 98:8 4:15,16,17
131:15 181:24 173:21 et 187:11 exactly 16:6 4:18,19
270:23 182:25 enjoined 194:8 145:6 41:23 58:21
271:4,11 183:6,10,12 224:9 ethical examination 67:21 84:5
294:9 183:23 enjoy 201:6 242:20 1:14 5:2 7:7 93:9 97:20
296:16 184:3 281:14,14 ethics 240:7 297:17 107:7
effort 128:23 employ 217:4 enjoyed European 308:13 110:13
165:9 257:4 279:16 216:8 examine 118:25
either 12:21 264:12 enjoying 217:12 287:17,21 139:2
13:9 66:10 employees 282:4 Europeans 290:2 149:23
126:12 297:1 enjoys 282:1 215:19 examining 158:23
142:19 employer 282:7 218:2 159:22 171:7
160:1 173:8 275:18,22 Enstice 266:6 evaluate 286:19 185:10
208:5 enact 60:8 266:12,13 29:25 75:6 287:11 188:24
221:25 64:9 267:25 evaluated 288:8 289:8 197:21
222:13,14 enacted 268:1 76:20 example 201:18

612.338.3376
Page 320
209:8 existed 90:13 exposed 214:3,9 210:1 175:1

212:19 91:6,7 99:25 218:5 fantastic 178:13
224:15 existence exposure 226:22 200:10 186:24
232:11 28:1 265:22 303:17 227:3,8 203:3 205:24
238:15 existing express 238:1 far 56:6 216:4 217:7
246:22 286:15 185:25 265:11 176:23 217:16
248:23 287:1,6 289:15 276:21 184:20 fighter
255:3 289:1 290:2 expressed facto 149:8 244:1 113:24
260:10 exists 72:15 15:13 187:4 factor 303:23 Farinas 187:4 255:17
266:1 90:13 91:8 305:24 factors fashion fighters
284:11 165:16 expression 205:15 186:11 255:13,15
292:24 208:8 194:9 234:18,20 favor 69:25 256:25
297:12 292:18,19 extended 286:19 114:17 257:4
exhibit 3:2 expect 41:11 132:10 287:11,17 205:25 fighting
4:2 42:2 61:5 245:15 300:24 287:21 fax 198:1,13 17:23 18:5
58:24,25 301:23 extensive 288:9 289:9 fears 304:10 18:16,23
64:8 67:25 302:4 184:14 290:2 February 50:16,24
69:16 80:24 expensive extent 10:2 facts 241:23 293:22 51:1,3,10
84:10 93:12 138:10 31:16 61:16 failure federal 1:15 51:14,18,19
97:23 experience 61:18,18 187:10 154:1,5 98:12
107:10 41:7 45:24 66:20 127:3 300:23 291:20 108:23,25
110:19 113:14 127:23 fairly 248:20 Federation 109:20,24
119:3 139:6 157:19 160:4 180:7 fall 11:20 71:19 72:4 111:2,6,10
140:1 150:1 227:17 205:16 fallen 11:16 73:10 112:15,16
150:4 159:8 300:17 206:16 falls 103:25 feeder 70:8 113:21
159:20 experienced 214:25 136:17,19 70:10 114:3,6,8
160:8 171:5 31:25 154:8 268:8 137:5 215:18 114:11,13
171:9,12 experiences 293:23 fame 100:16 216:7 217:9 114:14,16
185:15 129:11 304:1 184:19 217:11 115:4,18
189:19 270:21 external familiar feel 99:19 116:22
194:24 experiencing 158:8 27:19 35:4 163:10 125:9
198:1 154:4 extraordin... 43:1 49:20 180:22 160:25,25
201:21 experiment 269:5 54:13 65:11 261:1 264:6 161:1,2,3,7
209:12 73:11 eye 82:15 65:20,21,24 286:7 161:14
212:24 experimen... eyes 170:11 71:18 82:24 288:12 162:1,2,3
220:7 73:15 74:9 115:9 213:9 feeling 9:22 163:12,17
224:17,18 expert 39:16 F 232:25 264:9 164:22
232:14,23 39:18 F.C 3:19 246:15 feet 175:6 167:23
237:22 164:19,21 185:11,17 287:24 fell 258:17 169:7,15
238:18 165:1 fabric 163:13 familiarizat... fellow 137:2 170:5,17
246:25 183:11,25 194:3,5 80:8 281:13 171:1 174:8
249:2 251:3 Expertise face 120:12 family 11:24 felt 16:22 174:9
255:5,6 164:18 177:9 194:8 12:14 15:15 92:6,13 175:19
260:13 experts 223:1 248:20 168:16 few-month 180:8,11,11
266:4 explain 295:3 family's 215:10 180:14,16
284:13 164:13 fact 31:18 99:24 field 151:15 181:15
293:3,12 235:17 63:7 72:23 250:18,20 fight 51:4 185:4
297:20 236:6 80:1 99:13 fan 4:4 16:20 85:9,14 186:21
301:5,7 explained 129:1,5 16:23 105:7,15 187:2,6,17
303:3 143:7 147:3 132:8 206:10 108:6,20 187:24
exhibits 3:1 147:12,15 168:25 209:8,13,22 109:5,5,7,8 188:4,7,11
4:1 41:24 147:20 169:3 211:16,17 109:11,14 188:11,14
219:9 298:1 148:19 198:19 fans 166:19 111:4,12,15 190:25
298:2 152:23 211:14 169:24 113:7 114:1 191:3 192:4
exist 89:15 explore 153:8 213:21,22 170:23 125:9 161:4 192:18
193:19 294:19 213:25 201:7,13 174:14 193:1,9,20

612.338.3376
Page 321
194:6,6,10 170:13 114:15 149:22 32:21 33:7 131:17

194:17 215:23 161:1,2,3,7 158:22 33:18 34:10 133:4,7,21
195:10 240:25 162:2 171:6 185:9 34:21 35:6 134:7 135:1
196:15 243:13 167:16 188:23 36:5,25 136:7,13
200:12,15 262:20 207:5 197:20 37:9,25 137:12
200:24 276:13 fisticuffs 198:6,15 38:7,18 142:21
201:5,12 277:10 190:25 201:17 40:5 41:3 143:21
203:8,25 295:19 198:23 208:5 209:7 44:23 45:11 144:2,13,23
204:24 298:13 199:13,19 212:18 45:20 47:13 145:14,25
205:18,21 302:23 fists 109:21 224:14 47:16 48:18 148:12
205:23 finding 241:3 161:14 232:10 49:14 50:18 149:10
206:2,18,19 findings 198:24 238:14 51:11 52:25 154:10,19
207:2,5,13 198:17 fit 133:14 239:19 55:12 56:10 155:20
207:23 finds 282:1 165:11 244:15,21 56:19 57:3 156:6,16,25
208:4,13,21 fine 98:19 fits 273:24 244:22,24 57:10 58:11 160:22
209:2 99:6 235:24 five 4:8 128:8 246:21 58:17 60:25 161:5,16
210:10,13 237:7 128:8 248:22 61:15 63:5 162:4 163:5
211:17 finish 35:19 217:18 255:2 260:9 63:18 64:13 164:11,23
212:5,16 74:1 232:12 265:25 64:20,22 165:18
216:3,17 finished 280:15 284:10 66:3 67:1,3 166:25
217:2,3,7 293:5 five-foot-fo... 287:5 288:2 67:16 70:17 168:17
217:16 firm 6:9 66:15,18 292:23 72:6,17,25 169:9,18
221:4 223:4 first 17:16 five-minute 297:11 74:16 75:1 170:8
223:18 27:25 33:6 135:7 306:9 75:18 76:2 175:21
228:3 35:1 37:18 161:10 follows 7:5 76:14 77:2 176:19
255:14,23 44:20 46:11 297:5 255:22 77:15 78:5 177:1,14
256:25 46:11,13,21 flip 210:9 302:23 78:24 79:6 179:3,16,24
257:9,20 59:16 87:25 233:6 font 189:7 79:17 81:1 180:3,9,17
258:20 89:2 98:17 FLOM 2:7 foot 175:6 83:7 86:11 181:4,17,19
283:18,25 102:20 Florida 2:4 footage 86:21 87:8 182:13,16
284:2,5 123:11 11:1,6 172:5,6,8 87:16 88:6 183:8 188:8
fights 19:9,15 142:8 160:8 107:23 172:11,13 88:21 90:10 188:16
19:24 85:8 186:9 140:3 172:17,18 90:25 91:1 192:6 193:3
85:12 198:15 flow 67:7 football 91:17 92:1 193:11,23
196:20,21 199:5 203:1 fly 89:16 144:10 92:8,16 195:5,13
197:2,12,14 206:6 217:9 focus 170:24 145:12,13 93:4 94:17 196:10,16
206:21 217:17 294:1 295:4 175:5 95:1,18,22 196:23
207:7,18 219:9,10 follow 273:20 206:22 96:6,14 197:4,16
255:13 224:24 follow-up 207:2,17 97:16 99:2 200:20
figure 225:21 227:14 270:19 forced 105:13 101:20 201:1,4
figured 40:16 234:24 290:12 forces 104:16 103:15 204:1 205:2
filed 6:5 236:12 306:5 foregoing 105:1,8 206:24
filling 257:2 238:8,8,24 followed 307:2 308:7 106:5,11,17 208:22
final 176:8 238:25 29:14,21 308:12 110:2,3 209:3
235:1 240:13 30:4 241:19 forever 112:5 213:14
finally 85:19 249:5,6 242:1,4,6 250:21 113:10 214:7,12
146:24 270:8,9,14 243:3,19 forgot 290:16 114:19 217:19
216:19 286:7,24 273:15 form 10:1 115:25 218:9
286:18 288:12,17 following 17:2,17 117:20 219:13,21
289:7 firsthand 41:22 46:12 18:2,8,25 119:15,25 220:8,12,15
financial 48:7 186:17 58:20 67:20 19:11,25 120:20 220:16,23
48:7 49:2 Fisher 125:7 84:4 93:8 20:23 21:6 121:2,11,19 221:20
49:11 52:10 225:16 97:19 107:6 24:14,17 122:5,15,23 228:23
225:6,13 fist 17:23 110:12 27:13 28:19 123:6,15 229:6 230:4
273:12 18:5,15,22 118:24 29:15 30:6 124:8,18 230:14,25
find 9:20 25:8 109:24 119:7 139:1 30:19,24 126:17 231:12,25

612.338.3376
Page 322
235:8,15,21 Fort 16:5 161:10 160:2 218:4,7,8 75:4,5

237:15 forthcoming fourth 46:2 293:24 218:12 81:16
238:5 187:14 190:17 305:25 224:13 119:22
240:19 forward 75:8 fracture 225:19 127:18
241:22 75:9 84:19 157:20 G 226:20 128:2
243:4,20 134:1 182:7 fractures G 2:13 228:3,9,11 131:10,14
244:5 219:18 152:24 gabble 190:5 228:14,21 131:20
245:23 244:19 156:5 gain 134:10 229:5,10,11 132:7 139:2
247:20 269:12 frame 88:18 game 17:24 229:12,17 139:7,9
248:16 273:11 franchise 18:6,23 229:23 140:2,14,15
251:13,21 forwarded 15:10 257:3 19:6 31:17 230:12,13 141:6
252:5,24 59:24 Frank 42:16 51:2 66:9 230:17,20 146:20
253:7,15 134:20 frankly 190:2 66:23 67:7 230:22 151:23
254:24 239:1 268:1 72:5 73:4,9 231:19,22 192:18
256:8,17 260:18 free 234:1 74:15,25 231:22 198:12
257:23 263:24 236:15 75:25 76:5 234:19,25 223:23
258:5,14 267:6 302:7 76:6,11,21 235:1 233:24
262:6 forwarding freedom 76:23 77:20 236:25 240:11
264:23 239:9 176:13,16 78:7,8,8,15 237:1 238:2 260:3
271:7 274:6 261:15 French 128:7 78:17 82:12 238:12 266:15
274:22 269:15 front 63:14 84:20 86:24 240:6 297:21
275:7,14,19 forwards 109:3 111:2,11 games 22:20 generally
276:8 224:21 112:16 115:13,17 22:22,24 10:4 36:18
277:16 255:8 161:1 192:9 115:20 23:1,7 102:2 187:9
280:4 fought 224:18 162:3,12 82:18 242:15
290:22 258:17 frustrated 163:3,13,16 161:10 generically
291:6 292:2 foul 190:25 206:23 166:15,16 186:19 136:21
295:20 found 17:4,4 frustration 166:18,22 200:25 genesis
296:1,7,18 125:13 194:9 167:18,21 281:6 282:6 132:22
300:10 144:16,18 206:20 167:23 Gary 42:4,12 getting 50:24
302:2,8 144:20 full 46:11 172:5,6,10 42:14 93:13 89:25 90:5
305:10 145:10 52:12,19,23 172:11,13 125:12,21 90:6,8
formation 222:4 190:17 172:17,18 215:21 102:18
81:10 82:18 262:16 fullest 180:7 173:16 216:15 119:10
formative 280:3 fully 225:14 174:10 293:13 121:9 122:4
184:18 foundation function 175:20,24 Gates 267:17 123:5 124:6
formed 15:14 28:20 40:6 271:25 176:6 267:19 124:16
81:15,16 41:4 51:12 274:16 180:12 269:5 128:19
82:1 83:1,4 63:20 67:2 276:19 181:11 gather 133:19
83:6,13 79:18 96:7 functioning 184:13,15 261:14 179:9,22
265:23 127:2 177:2 268:9,9 186:14 gathered 194:7
former 96:2 180:18 fund 273:7 190:25 182:10 234:13
145:12,18 195:6,16 funds 296:23 194:4,5,18 Gaustad 255:10
145:22 196:17,24 296:25 195:23 171:20 261:2
203:7 197:5 210:6 funny 241:1 201:4,14 gear 102:7,8 262:21
216:25 213:14 further 205:6,7,8 102:10 264:10
221:7 229:7 132:12 205:12 103:23 282:7,8
263:12 241:24 186:14 206:6,8,11 104:19 298:19
282:22 245:24 199:4 279:4 206:15,18 120:10,12 Gil 126:7,8
296:15 249:20 291:15 207:2,9,15 Geller 2:1 Gillogly
304:25 four 2:9 3:16 297:2 207:24 6:13,15 299:21
305:3 158:23 303:15 208:21 general 3:5 give 32:7
formulate 161:9 306:3 308:9 209:2 3:13 22:3 85:21,21
254:1 233:22 furtherance 210:13 22:13,17 128:22
formulated 294:6 29:19 211:3 67:21 68:1 131:19
305:7 four-minute future 111:23 212:12,13 69:4,10 276:5

612.338.3376
Page 323
given 7:10,21 161:1 186:5,9 72:17,25 165:18 235:25

8:1 92:7,14 goalies 192:11 74:1,16 166:25 236:7,11,14
126:13 120:11 213:13 75:1,18 168:8,17 237:15,21
131:13 goals 74:11 214:24 76:2,5,14 169:9,18 238:5
307:3 God's 174:19 218:1,1 77:2,15 170:8 240:19
gives 198:21 goes 59:22 219:20,25 78:5,24 171:11,18 241:22
247:23 60:3 73:15 235:20 79:6,17 171:21 242:8,10
276:2 119:11 254:5 81:1 83:7 172:3,11,13 243:4,20
giving 121:8 150:20 263:22 83:23 86:11 172:15,17 244:5
137:23 160:3 264:7 86:21 87:8 172:19 245:23
176:21 176:24 266:19 87:16 88:6 175:21 246:10
247:14 186:4 190:4 268:22 88:21 90:10 176:19,25 247:20
Glenn 299:25 200:16,24 269:19 90:25 91:17 177:14 248:6,8,16
Globe 93:14 201:13 273:19 92:1,8,16 179:3,16,24 249:11,14
255:9 203:12 277:9,11,15 93:4 94:8 180:9,17 249:16,19
glorified 216:22 284:16 94:11,17,25 181:4,17 249:24
170:5 171:1 218:6 289:7,23 95:18,22 182:13,16 251:12,21
Glorifying 221:16 291:19 96:6,14 183:8 188:8 252:5,24
170:17 225:14 297:8,19 97:16 99:2 188:16 253:7,15
glory 170:21 228:4 302:18,24 101:20 189:8 254:24
glove 194:7 234:23 Goldfein 2:7 103:15 190:10 256:8,17
gloves 111:16 244:1 5:4 6:16,16 105:1,8 192:6 193:3 257:23
GM 119:9 268:22 8:5 10:1 106:5,11,17 193:11,23 258:5,14
132:16 269:5 17:2,17 110:2,14 194:21 263:21
140:19,20 271:23 18:2,7,25 112:5 195:5,13,16 264:23
140:21 273:5 19:11,25 113:10 196:7,10,16 271:7
260:3 293:25 20:23 21:6 114:19 196:23 272:12
GMs 69:21,25 294:25 21:13,15 115:24 197:4,9,16 274:6,22
128:17 going 8:16 24:16 27:13 117:20 200:20 275:7,14,19
go 23:10 38:6 10:10 20:19 28:19 29:3 119:15,25 201:1 276:8
48:23 61:20 24:9,16 29:15 30:6 120:20 202:15,18 277:15,22
74:1 75:9 50:10 56:14 30:19,24 121:2,11,19 202:22 277:25
90:17 116:4 58:23 67:7 31:3 32:21 122:5,15,23 204:1 205:2 278:13,18
119:10,24 70:12 83:15 33:7,18 123:6,15 206:24 279:5 280:4
121:15 83:24 84:9 34:1,10,20 124:8,18 208:22 282:12,14
122:9,10 85:23,25 35:6,12 125:5,23 209:3 210:5 282:14
150:20 103:10 36:5,24 126:1,7,16 211:7,11 290:22
159:14 108:3 37:9,25 127:1,22 212:20 291:6,10
170:20 112:14 38:7,18 131:17 213:13,17 292:2
174:21,21 113:1 40:5 41:3 133:4,7,21 213:21,24 295:20
182:1,6,19 115:24 44:23 45:11 134:7 135:1 214:4,10,24 296:1,7,18
183:12,16 119:2 45:20 47:13 136:7,13 217:19,22 297:4,17,25
183:18 126:16 47:16 48:18 137:12 219:13,20 298:3,5,10
184:6 134:1 135:9 48:22 49:14 142:21 220:13,16 298:12
187:10 139:5 50:18 51:11 143:21 220:21,23 299:2
217:15 148:14 55:12 56:10 144:2,13,23 221:20 300:11
218:21 150:1 56:19 57:3 145:14,25 222:24 302:3,10
236:9,18 151:15 57:10,18 148:12 225:9 303:2,5,8
245:13 159:13,16 58:11,17 149:10 228:18,23 306:2,11,16
247:9 261:9 164:7 171:4 60:25 61:15 154:10,19 229:6 230:4 golf 281:5,14
264:7 270:7 171:8,9,15 63:5,18 155:20 230:14,25 Golisano
271:13 171:15 64:13,17,19 156:6,16,25 231:12,25 259:17
290:18 172:20 64:22,25 160:22 232:13,16 golly 158:13
291:14 176:15,25 66:3 67:1 161:5,16 232:20 good 7:9
goal 109:4 183:19 67:16 70:17 162:4 163:5 234:2,5,8 14:22 16:22
112:16 185:14 70:23 72:6 164:11,23 235:8,15,18 44:9 60:13

612.338.3376
Page 324
95:13,14 101:2,15 178:8 H 170:15 96:22 97:1

118:16 124:1 grounds H-O-V-D-A 207:16,16 100:1 101:6
134:17,24 149:24 213:16,17 261:23 228:7 102:7,8,10
145:7 150:5 214:25 half 126:5 237:10 103:23,24
167:18,25 154:16 group 32:12 128:14 258:22 103:25
170:1 155:8 41:20 46:16 halfway Happy 85:20 104:18
179:11 156:23 52:7,15,16 271:17 hard 38:6 119:7
200:11 160:19 62:17 81:10 293:25 147:10,14 120:10,12
206:13 161:25 81:21 82:1 Hall 184:19 147:19 121:10
212:14 204:25 82:8,19,23 hand 49:8,8 148:9 122:4 123:5
218:12 233:15 83:1,13 82:11,18 190:14 123:18
268:21 241:20 142:10 151:25 240:5 124:7,17
269:3,3,7 242:16 151:13,24 152:3 hard-playing 126:15,25
274:4 243:17 153:8 handful 21:17 113:22 127:15,21
279:16 244:2 245:6 233:13 23:3 294:6 harder 128:1 130:7
281:5,6,13 276:4 242:22 handle 18:19 178:19 130:13,15
296:21 284:15,18 243:7,11 245:7 harm 240:8 130:16,16
Goons 255:10 284:21 262:16 handled harmed 130:25
Gotcha 15:25 285:6,20 266:18 115:2 207:23 131:5,16,25
95:13 141:1 291:2 268:12 116:18 harmful 132:6
266:15 governs 62:9 272:7,15,20 194:13 206:3 265:5 133:12,20
269:25 graduates 272:24 208:4 243:6 harming 134:6
gotten 74:21 194:7 273:14,23 handles 22:1 193:22 136:23
195:22 graduation 274:11 handling Harry 3:23 137:1
governing 104:20 283:2 31:19,22 53:15 138:21,23
193:9 Grand 42:5 293:22,24 hands-on 140:18 151:10
government 42:18 93:13 groups 82:21 20:8,16 197:21 165:21
154:1,5 142:9 239:2 grow 119:23 handwriting 198:3 167:15,17
176:17 293:13,20 guess 80:15 202:13 harsher 168:14,23
291:20 297:21 110:14 happen 24:9 115:5 169:3,6
governor 7:1 299:1,20 167:25 70:9 72:9 180:16 177:12
53:2,3,10 Grand's 175:16 82:14 hate 170:22 179:9,22
101:8 140:7 42:19 202:6 141:15 head 8:8,9 223:23
governors grandchild... 239:19 169:17 38:6 39:19 224:1,3,5
3:15 6:18 13:18 260:20 211:16 40:4 65:15 224:12
6:22 7:1 grandfathe... guided 228:12,13 66:2,13,20 225:2
23:17,23 135:22 198:22 283:14,17 66:24,25 227:12
24:1,7 granted guy 85:6 happened 67:9,15 228:5,7,21
25:17 31:12 289:6 129:24 38:13 79:20 69:23,25 229:5,13
31:15 32:17 gravitates 218:25 83:19 70:16 71:1 230:3,11,18
33:4,12 255:20 237:4 101:11 71:9,16,25 231:11
37:6 51:24 great 102:16 240:24 128:12 72:22 74:14 233:9,22
52:12,20 162:17 241:3 175:3 75:16 76:1 237:5,6
53:2,4,19 268:4 256:16 186:18 76:13,25 245:21
54:15,21,24 Great-gran... 261:5 213:5 214:6 77:1,5,8,9 246:9 252:4
55:17,22 13:20 273:23 237:12 77:12 78:11 252:14
56:8,18 greater 208:5 276:13 241:2,4,14 78:22,23 253:5
57:1,9 300:17 281:13 255:12 79:4,5,15 254:22
59:19,25 greatly guy's 126:5 258:20 79:23 80:19 255:24
61:14 62:11 230:19 guys 125:8 happening 82:3 84:8 257:10,16
68:6,8 69:5 Greg 6:19 171:16 136:25 85:24 86:9 257:20
74:13 75:15 GREGORY 2:8 218:19 241:17 86:10,18 262:23
76:18 77:12 gregory.cr... 255:15 242:23 87:3,15 266:22
77:19,22 2:9 264:15 happens 90:5,7,8 269:18
80:19 81:13 ground 268:5 283:3 72:11 91:25 92:6 280:23,24
83:17 87:22 177:25 136:24 92:12,21 298:18

612.338.3376
Page 325
299:21,22 143:25 147:23 67:15 69:23 133:25 133:15

305:10,15 145:22 149:1,6,8 69:23 70:16 138:5 289:16,16
head-scrat... 159:2 149:15,18 71:1,8,12 145:18,22 hoping
93:15,19 192:16,17 152:23 71:14,24 157:23 240:24
headache 204:4 154:17 72:22 74:14 161:8 165:3 horse 11:16
129:10 240:12,15 155:2,15,18 76:1,12,25 165:4 11:21 12:9
262:13 261:22 156:3,14,24 76:25 77:7 178:12 12:25
headaches 264:10,11 157:8,14,21 77:23,25 184:22 137:25
280:24 264:25 157:22 78:1,22,23 185:23 138:3 157:7
281:19 265:3,4,7,9 158:6 79:4,5,15 186:1,4 157:15,16
300:18 265:10,12 159:23,25 79:23 80:20 189:22 157:21
heading 279:8 164:1 294:7 84:8 85:22 190:1,6,24 158:7 265:9
44:18 84:8 304:17 help 253:12 86:9,10 191:1 192:4 265:15
150:22,23 hearing helped 87:3,15 195:2,11 horses 11:10
heads 66:13 198:6,15 167:21 126:15,25 196:3,6 102:5
77:23 heart 273:9 254:1 127:15,21 198:3 201:7 137:25
health 28:13 heck 265:23 helping 15:9 136:17 202:25 138:7
28:14 30:2 284:22 helps 291:12 168:14 205:9 207:5 hospital
30:16 37:6 heights 72:14 Hey 110:25 169:6 207:20 111:18,19
37:15,19 72:19,24 256:24 223:23 215:20 111:19
40:8 48:16 heinous Hi 239:9 224:1,3,5 216:9 112:10,12
49:1,13 191:3 highlight 224:13 218:18 hot 243:14
78:4 133:3 held 68:1 270:22 227:12 227:10,19 244:13,19
133:12 140:2,12 highly 193:25 228:4,7,21 229:10 hour 73:12
160:19 150:5 hire 20:13 229:4 230:1 248:5 254:2 hours 10:17
163:2 179:6 223:12 41:11 230:2,3,11 256:25 240:5,17
208:20 306:9 140:23 231:11 263:12 Hovda 261:23
233:4 hell 111:25 hired 40:25 254:22 269:18,18 How's 281:2
268:17 130:10 48:3 140:15 294:8 270:19 huge 225:6
274:5 helmet 103:6 140:17,24 305:10,14 273:8 281:4 225:12
298:14 104:2 136:1 hires 140:15 305:15 282:3 hundred
299:19 136:24 hiring 22:15 hitting 289:14 164:5 165:4
300:7 304:2 137:4 173:11 167:16,16 305:11,14 hundreds
healthy 49:7 147:23 hit 38:6 66:19 194:8,15 Hockey's 19:9,20,24
178:24 152:25 67:9 69:25 hockey 1:7 255:10 196:20
179:10,11 153:2,9,12 75:16 77:5 2:11,16 6:4 hold 117:25 Hunt 1:17 6:8
179:13,22 154:21 77:9 78:2 6:17,20,24 181:13 hurt 77:20
hear 9:18 155:10 85:17 90:5 8:2 14:25 home 10:25 234:24
45:15 89:24 158:7,11 90:7,8 18:6 33:24 22:20,24 hypothetical
112:4,7 160:4,11 91:24 92:6 42:15 44:19 23:1 119:10 30:25 31:1
175:14 293:9 92:12,20 61:25 62:6 119:24 hypothetic...
186:23 294:19 121:10 62:18 66:5 139:21 30:13
208:16 helmets 122:4 123:5 69:18,20 honestly
279:10 78:12 124:6,17 70:6 71:7 183:13 I
280:2 102:11,19 133:20 71:14,19 301:1 Ian 299:12,20
heard 15:12 102:21,25 167:14 72:3,3,4,11 honesty IBM 189:9
28:3 32:6,9 103:1,3,9 168:23 73:9 76:6 301:1 ice 38:6
36:9 45:8 103:12,22 169:2 76:11 78:7 honorable 48:11 49:3
45:13,16 104:1,14,23 178:19 88:12,19 274:24 67:11 71:19
88:11 90:1 104:24 225:1,16 89:5 93:1 275:2 73:14 76:11
107:15 135:17 237:5,6 93:23 hope 146:22 91:15 98:20
108:13 136:4,10,18 240:5 246:9 100:23,25 146:22 99:7 120:5
109:15 137:10,21 280:25 104:15,23 222:20 206:20
112:12 138:3,4,15 300:19 106:16,23 hopeful 218:3,5,12
137:24 138:18,19 hits 65:15 107:3 117:5 291:22 240:24
143:12,19 147:15,20 66:2,24,25 132:13 hopefully idea 7:13

612.338.3376
Page 326
83:12 50:24 78:3 294:20 294:20 information input 293:23

134:18,24 132:7 improvement increases 23:18 24:18 inside 147:10
179:18 210:12 104:21 271:20 80:3 137:23 147:14,19
263:20 230:17 inadvertent 274:13 146:16 148:9
274:4 293:9 231:23 86:10 228:4 increasing 162:11 insofar 120:9
296:21 impacted 228:7 217:6 246:17 203:12
ideas 17:14 74:25 inadverten... incremental 261:16 inspires
Identificati... 208:20 66:12 225:22 265:17,20 163:16
41:22 58:20 impacts inappropri... incurred 291:11,18 instances
67:20 84:4 209:2 220:4 131:22 291:22 86:23
93:8 97:19 303:25 222:24 298:17 292:7,9 instigator
107:6 impair 9:21 incidence incurring 299:18 115:9,12,16
110:12 impairment 255:24,25 298:18 informed 115:21
118:24 264:19 256:1 independent 265:24 116:23
139:1 272:2 275:5 257:10,11 141:16,22 infractions institute
149:22 278:25 257:20 INDEX 3:1 187:7 162:1
158:22 impairments 272:3 4:1 5:1 infrastruct... 267:18,19
171:6 185:9 274:17 274:18 indicated 286:10 267:20
188:23 275:13 303:15 189:24 288:14 instituted
197:20 impeded incidences 238:9 injured 48:11 33:6 36:4
201:17 206:2 116:21 indicating 77:13 78:10 101:16
209:7 implement incident 123:19 97:12 129:1 115:18
212:18 55:18,24 84:24 288:5 186:23 instructive
224:14 implemented 111:21 indicative injuries 33:23 75:25 76:10
232:10 102:18 173:18 95:8 34:9 39:19 insure 33:12
238:14 implications 213:10 individual 40:4 88:4 37:6 121:16
246:21 292:20 incidental 39:7 106:14 100:1 101:6 122:21
248:22 implied 77:8 78:1,2 107:12 117:17 241:20
255:2 260:9 241:11 224:12 113:23 123:18 242:17
265:25 244:25 226:19 144:18,21 128:1,1 286:16
284:10 importance 305:14 159:9 129:9 180:7 289:2
292:23 30:3 incitement 165:15 199:3 insuring
297:11 important 163:12 170:19 216:23 243:1
identified 29:8,18 inclined 243:12 221:17 intelligence
143:8 30:2,16 31:23 45:25 260:6 255:24 152:8
identifies 40:3,8 47:4 individually 257:10,12 intend 225:24
298:16 44:14 74:23 include 299:6 40:10 257:16,20 286:13
identify 169:23 includes 126:22 269:18 288:25
243:12 177:23 300:8 individuals 273:8 intent 77:17
II 2:8 229:21 including 49:5 55:5 298:18 intentional
illegal 69:23 236:13 26:19 70:11 166:21 injury 1:8 6:4 78:23 79:5
76:25 77:5 300:19 240:8 176:18 46:18 47:11 86:9 214:6
illness 304:2 304:10 299:19 induced 104:7 130:7 224:1,5,8
illnesses importantly 302:14 261:24 130:13,16 228:20
129:8 304:4 161:24 incompetent industries 130:16,25 229:4
imagine impose 63:23 291:20 131:5,16,22 intentionally
251:15 216:16 incorrect industry 131:25 77:14
imaging 217:15 177:3 151:15 132:6,19,24 201:15
270:24,25 imposing increase infection 134:6 interest
iMessage 257:8 218:20 298:20 159:24 15:13 48:7
27:2 imprecise increased inferior 191:7 49:2,12
immediately 229:8 18:18 118:20,23 248:15 78:15,16
186:21 improve 116:22 inflammato... 250:11,18 82:4 99:25
286:8 167:21 217:16 239:13 270:23 166:16,17
288:13 improved 272:2 inform 300:16 166:20,21
impact 9:14 46:14 274:18 141:13 injury's 46:14 173:3

612.338.3376
Page 327
281:23 32:11 66:13 135:15 joined 87:25 141:14 95:3,15,24

289:15 81:9 127:5 172:21 joint 14:13 177:24 95:25 96:8
293:24 161:4,15 192:8 200:6 59:17 221:23 96:12,16
interested 163:1 164:6 209:11 jointly 62:19 283:3 288:6 97:7,10,13
13:4,5 168:4 273:5 219:5,6 joke 38:17,20 kindly 262:2 97:14 98:2
14:24 15:4 involvement 224:17 46:18 47:12 King 42:4,10 98:7,9,10
15:5,6,20 22:14 39:14 232:22 47:21 93:14 98:11 99:19
16:18 160:6 173:10 236:6 249:3 joking 38:23 knew 70:25 99:23,23
166:12,14 involves 250:8 Jose 299:22 152:10 101:7 103:3
166:16,17 237:3 254:11 Jr 14:17 192:3 210:4 103:4 104:3
166:20 involving 260:15 judge 235:22 know 8:21 104:6,9,14
201:14 84:24 266:8 judgment 12:5 13:2 105:6,16,17
245:5 295:1 230:18 267:19 58:4,7 64:6 16:13 17:5 105:18,25
295:1,2 294:6 284:13 65:3 227:24 17:10 19:7 107:14,21
interesting iPhone 27:5 289:20 257:7,8 19:13 20:19 108:8,11,23
125:10 ipso 149:8 293:2 304:15 21:8 23:18 109:9
208:2 irrelevant 297:19 Julie 42:4,5,8 24:25 25:3 111:17,25
255:16 177:4 301:7 307:7 42:18,19 25:6,8,11 112:8,9,17
277:2 293:7 irrespective January 93:13 142:9 25:12,22 112:23,24
293:10 136:25 107:11 151:20 26:4,7,24 112:25
interfered 257:1 150:6,21 239:2,9 27:4,9,15 113:1,2
284:6 irritant 151:2 293:12 27:17,25 116:1 117:2
interfering 206:16 154:14 297:21 28:8 31:21 117:7 118:8
66:9 78:13 isolated 293:22 298:25 32:6,11,15 119:21
interferon 186:19 Jeff 223:14 299:19 35:1 37:21 120:19,23
100:17 issue 35:2 223:15,15 June 68:2 39:7,9,13 125:1
internal 36:22 37:13 Jeremy 1:1 69:11 70:15 39:17,23 129:13,22
156:9 158:9 37:23 38:17 1:14 5:3 6:3 JW's 59:14 40:12,14,16 129:22
International 40:23 41:1 14:17 40:19,22 130:10
71:18 72:4 44:14 50:15 260:14 K 41:5 42:9 132:23
73:10 50:16 84:8 266:8 307:7 Kaleida 42:10,12,16 134:13
interpretat... 100:22 Jerry 14:17 266:15 42:17 43:18 135:3,3
61:3 67:10 101:1 192:8 219:5 Kathleen 2:2 46:24 47:1 138:10,24
113:14 112:15 219:6 6:14 47:1,5,9,24 141:12,13
304:7 167:24 Jessica Kaye 159:10 48:1,2,4,5 143:11
interpreted 223:18,23 158:12,13 159:18 51:22 53:16 145:16,20
123:20 226:6 158:19,20 160:7,10 56:2,6,12 149:17
interrupted 246:15 293:13 kdouglas@... 56:21 57:12 151:9
146:14 268:23 Joan 1:19 6:7 2:3 57:15,23,25 154:12
intimidation issued 135:25 308:18 keep 19:15 61:6 62:21 155:6
187:5 issues 159:22 job 140:13 19:18,22 64:19 65:5 157:10,12
introduce 176:15 141:21 67:6 136:18 65:22 66:1 157:24
6:11 295:3,5,7 167:25 205:6,19 68:14,16 158:10,25
introduced 295:15 240:8 282:16,21 69:14 71:20 160:14
142:9 255:20 Ken 267:16 75:12,25 165:20,22
261:24 J 276:12 kept 118:17 76:11,17 167:10
introducing J 7:3,3 jobs 169:25 233:25 79:9 80:15 168:25
276:25 Jack 1:16 6:8 255:15 kicked 216:4 80:18 81:5 169:2,5,11
invested Jacobs 1:1,15 jockeying 217:7,17 81:5,25 169:11,12
48:15,22,23 5:3 6:3,18 109:11 kid 15:2 82:3,25 170:22
investment 6:21,25 7:9 Joffrey 84:21 128:7 83:10 85:14 175:23
48:8 42:1 53:15 John 60:5 kidding 89:12 85:16 87:23 176:1,5,7,7
involve 67:8 58:24 59:1 204:17 268:7 88:17 89:20 178:2,12
78:10 84:7 93:12 259:13 kids 170:20 91:23 92:10 179:6
involved 110:20 299:13,20 kind 84:7 92:15,19,22 180:15
21:23 22:11 120:7 join 227:15 90:17 93:6 94:19 181:8

612.338.3376
Page 328
183:23 268:20,24 176:13 69:23 93:25 72:11 97:2 leave 145:3

186:7 189:6 270:1,2 214:5 94:15 96:4 97:5 102:10 222:25
189:7 190:6 271:4,11 258:17 96:11 102:11 295:4,6
191:4 196:4 272:22 knows 192:3 262:19 105:22,24 lecturing
196:18,21 274:2 192:8 latest 225:17 113:18,21 177:1
197:2,19 275:21,22 213:18 latitude 117:1,3 Leddy 259:13
198:7,8,8 276:11 Knox 15:15 198:21 119:8 120:6 262:1 263:4
198:16 280:6,7 Kris 42:4,10 Lauderdale 120:16,24 263:11
199:18 282:9,10 93:14 16:5 121:6 125:5 leg 82:8
202:18 283:22 Ks 42:4 laughable 125:11,19 legal 22:4
203:21 287:9,16,20 46:18 47:12 126:11 76:25 77:9
204:3 208:1 288:1,19,21 L 47:21 156:15 77:25 78:1
209:5,17,19 289:5 290:5 L-I-C-H-T-... laughing 39:2 158:14 176:21
209:20,23 290:6,7,8,9 284:23 law 176:24 161:12 217:3
210:3 290:24 L-U-C-I-C 177:3 165:4,21 225:18
212:15 291:1 84:21 LAWRENCE 168:15 legalities
213:5,11,21 292:16,17 L-U-P-U-L 2:13 169:7,15 61:8
213:22,25 292:18,20 84:23 lawsuit 23:13 170:3,6,18 lend 267:13
214:8,10 293:5,10 lack 50:3 23:17 127:5 184:17 lesser 71:22
216:15 295:17 123:19 127:6 215:2 188:4,7,15 71:23
220:2,22,24 298:15 127:2 245:2 lawyer 191:14,20 let's 9:4,4
221:3,10 299:4 300:5 lacking 28:20 127:11 192:17,19 30:13 47:7
222:7,8,18 300:13,15 40:6 41:4 165:23 198:3 73:20 74:7
223:5,10,11 305:3 63:20 79:18 282:9 200:16,18 110:4
223:25 knowing 195:6,16 lawyers 200:23 114:15
224:7 76:23 210:6 27:17 201:13 121:15
227:18 103:21 213:14 215:12 203:24 122:9,10
228:12,13 245:6 245:24 lay 249:20 204:11 123:10
228:25 knowledge lacks 51:12 laying 141:20 205:21 130:12,12
234:4 28:5 29:6 67:2,2 96:7 lead 300:24 216:2,7 132:4,5
235:14 29:11 88:9 177:2 leadership 219:17 156:5
237:10,12 99:20 180:18 22:11 223:4 224:2 170:23,24
239:3,5,7 103:12,19 195:22 161:12 225:4 183:16,18
239:21 104:12 196:17,24 204:19 226:23 217:9,17
240:24 106:22 197:5 229:7 283:2 305:7 227:15,19 218:20
241:6 242:5 107:3 241:23 leading 228:2 237:1 242:15
242:24 117:16,23 lacrosse 292:21 243:7 254:2 273:2 278:4
243:23 118:9,11 197:3 leads 236:16 254:21 lethal 191:7
244:2 144:7 146:5 laid 129:5 291:4 292:9 259:23 letter 3:18,20
245:12 152:6 157:3 240:24 292:14 261:4 185:5,10,16
247:6,12 160:13 land 85:20 Leafs 94:4 273:13,18 185:22,23
249:6,16 184:12,14 landed 96:23 97:1 283:19 185:24
251:1,14,14 184:23 111:15 league 1:7 289:15 188:24
252:2,16,16 246:13 lane 184:6 2:11,16 6:4 295:7 305:6 189:19,23
253:9 259:3 305:17 language 6:17,21,25 league's 190:12,23
259:3,10,13 knowledge... 278:1,4 8:2 17:9,11 59:15 224:9 191:8 192:1
259:15,24 40:20,23 large 53:7 17:15 26:1 leagues 70:9 192:23
260:6,20 41:1 93:1 largely 304:5 33:25 34:7 70:10 71:7 198:13
262:10 106:16 larger 197:13 34:19 44:12 71:8 72:10 199:6,7
263:2,5,6 151:22 Larry 6:23 54:21,24 79:12 260:25
263:11,15 252:19 259:18 55:6 61:25 113:17 level 89:21
263:18 known 11:20 260:2,3,15 62:6,18 215:18 167:19
264:25 50:12 55:1 261:1 264:5 68:18 70:6 217:9,11 205:21,22
265:7,10,22 57:21 58:2 264:5,9 70:7,8 227:10,11 208:21
266:24 95:6 129:18 Larry's 264:8 71:14,21,22 leap 276:10 219:2
267:3,8,12 143:20 late 50:6 71:23 72:3 learned 17:12 242:25

612.338.3376
Page 329
245:9 261:4 232:19 129:5 163:7 Lorraine 3:21 46:4 135:18

levels 161:8 285:15 194:18 188:25 magnify 138:18,19
161:11 300:13 204:10 189:21 170:12 manifests
296:11 listen 9:6 225:24 loses 78:15 Mail 255:9 201:4
Levy 267:15 45:25 long-standi... 78:16 maintained manner 34:7
268:22 110:17 198:22 240:16 203:8 34:16 308:8
lgscarboro... 173:25 199:13,18 loss 100:19 major 115:22 manufactu...
2:15 listened long-term 240:3 191:2 225:2 294:14
Liberty 1:17 151:6 174:2 121:9 122:3 300:17,22 Majority 11:5 Maple 94:4
license lists 294:1 123:4 124:5 300:25 making 96:23 97:1
226:11 literature 124:16 lot 51:6 72:9 227:17 March 3:20
Lichter 146:10 126:14,23 73:15 85:10 236:19 140:3,12
284:23 304:6 127:14,20 88:25 158:5 256:7,10 141:17
lie 58:16 litigation 1:8 128:1,18 207:2,3 257:7 188:24
life 119:8 6:5 26:2 131:15,21 208:3 270:22 189:20,23
133:25 27:12 132:7 210:10 276:10 191:14
250:18,19 249:25 134:15 218:23,23 282:9 202:14
250:20,21 250:2 166:20 218:24,25 man 133:14 209:13
264:2 little 15:3 245:20 222:9,11 manage 211:11
279:18,20 24:17 29:6 248:15 234:17 20:14 marital 44:21
281:7,7 38:15 86:15 252:4,14 263:3 268:20 45:10
282:2,4 89:5 92:6 253:5 259:2 265:24 managed mark 171:4,8
291:13 94:3 96:21 270:18,23 284:16,22 173:14,14 239:2,3,9
lifestyle 103:11 271:4,11 loud 8:8 250:12 280:13,14
257:18 132:4 276:7 152:20 management 280:16,21
lifetime 135:16,17 286:13 Louie 14:17 20:14 281:22,24
106:20,23 136:3 291:4 294:9 love 170:22 106:25 282:1
185:1 178:22,23 305:24 189:7 205:14 Mark's
light 83:8 189:11 long-winded lovely 139:20 240:2 281:22
249:25,25 200:13 220:15 139:20 298:15 marked 41:22
liked 208:17 211:9 longer 14:9 276:12 299:19 42:2 58:20
likelihood 220:14 85:4 Lucic 84:20 300:7,21 58:23,25
72:14 255:23 longer-term 85:1 171:20 manager 67:20,24
298:17 257:9 288:24 205:24 22:3,13,17 84:4,10
likes 273:5 279:15 look 74:13 lunch 200:5 69:10 94:5 93:8,11
limitation 291:14 75:6 82:10 luncheon 131:14,20 97:19,22
71:11 live 85:25 82:15 200:1 132:7 107:6,9
limits 63:3 86:17 132:12 Lupul 84:22 140:14,16 110:12
Lindros 44:19 lived 10:23 167:4 84:23 141:6 118:24
46:8,10,12 10:24 174:22 lying 58:10 192:18 119:3 139:1
line 50:25 living 10:18 201:6 241:8 198:12 139:5,25
64:14 84:19 257:16 251:2 M 240:11 147:24
210:20 LLP 2:1,7,12 268:13 M 1:19 7:3,3 managers 149:22
lines 89:19 locations 277:16 308:18 3:5,13 158:22
lineup 233:25 15:8 296:12 M-A-C-L-E-... 67:21 68:1 171:6 185:9
link 85:20 locker 89:11 297:24 42:24 69:4 75:4,5 185:15
168:13 89:14 247:4 301:4 M-A-T-H-I-... 81:17 188:23
169:6 252:3 247:7,10 looked 74:20 97:25 119:22 189:18
252:13 LoCouture 134:20 machine 127:18 197:20,25
253:4,13 280:9 looking 93:17 143:14 128:2 201:17,20
255:9 long 10:16 194:11 308:8 131:11 209:7,12
258:12 12:5 13:13 242:23 Maclean's 139:3,7,9 212:18
list 32:13 29:21 58:2 262:20 42:23 140:2 224:14,18
232:16 77:13 78:11 278:16,22 magazine 297:22 232:10,13
247:23 100:12 looks 248:3 42:23 43:1 mandatory 232:23
listed 232:18 102:18,24 248:11 43:20 44:17 102:16,21 238:14,17

612.338.3376
Page 330
246:21,24 107:13,13 202:3 151:2 286:2,4 mild 104:6

248:22 107:15,17 273:12 154:16 287:5 159:24
249:1 255:2 108:3,20 308:8 155:8 290:12 million 282:8
255:5 260:9 110:21,25 meant 47:5 225:25 297:12 mind 88:19
260:12 McMaster 118:10,14 293:22 mental 125:25
265:25 203:4 143:3 meetings 268:17 163:24
266:4 McMurtrys measure 24:7,14 274:4 304:2 192:13
284:10 187:5 153:9 31:12,15 mentioned mindful
292:23 MDL 1:7 187:21 32:18 33:4 16:7 39:6 302:21
293:3 Meagher 2:7 measures 53:19 68:6 188:3 mine 185:1
297:11 42:4,12,14 153:1 69:4,8 199:14 minimize
markers 93:13 Mechanics 83:17 101:3 251:11 298:19
270:13,22 mean 18:13 294:16 226:6 302:12,15 Minnesota
market 20:18 21:13 media 98:21 233:16 302:16,17 1:5 6:7
207:22 47:18 80:13 99:11 243:17 mentions minor 70:7
208:12,14 88:14 90:2 159:21 265:18 300:1 71:7,21
marketed 105:11 304:11 Meeuwisse merchandise minors 93:24
147:24 106:7 medical 28:9 32:7 142:10 210:15,16 minute
149:19 108:25 28:10 30:9 142:17 merchandi... 235:18
Marlowe 109:20 45:23 81:19 146:15 186:13 minutes 3:13
299:25 120:11 88:9 95:15 147:2,12,22 message 3:14 68:6
Maron 299:25 137:20 96:13 142:9 149:5 286:10 68:11,12
married 144:4,6 146:10 151:16 288:15 69:8 73:13
13:11 164:14 151:12 152:9,17,21 messages 101:8 139:2
267:23 165:5,20 232:4 153:2,10,15 26:10,13,16 139:24
masked 168:20 233:24 155:7 239:1 26:21 27:10 140:1 141:2
111:17 178:20 237:4 239:8,18 27:10 141:15
masks 120:12 192:13 238:11 252:18 279:21 142:2
material 205:5 252:17 253:3 met 142:19 149:23
75:11 158:2 215:22 257:7 299:23,24 167:24 150:4,22
219:25 255:14 266:14,20 302:14 method 183:20
materially 264:4 266:22 Meeuwisse's 153:11 254:4
73:8 74:25 267:12 267:2,3 148:2,25 155:9 Mischaract...
75:25 76:12 277:6 279:2 269:7 154:15 methods 77:16
228:9,21 281:3 298:22 member 6:18 193:22 misconduct
229:5 292:15 300:20 6:21 23:22 Metzger 6:7 115:13,17
Mathieu 293:17 304:3,15 23:25 37:5 METZGER-... 115:20
97:25 meaning medically 75:14 1:20 308:18 187:13
Mathiew 98:1 30:11 31:19,22 150:12 mid 83:16,17 mislead
98:2 205:13 medication 160:18 122:10 128:23
Matt 108:12 255:15 9:9,14,19 244:2 middle 131:20
266:6,12,13 meaningful medicine 285:19,20 110:23 misleading
267:23 29:13 30:23 34:14 members 142:5,5 229:7 230:5
269:9 270:3 31:5 76:22 242:21 11:24 12:14 147:1 234:11
matter 6:3 292:10 meet 10:7,12 23:16 297:1 224:23 236:22
39:2 56:3 meaningfully 21:20,21 memo 3:23 225:8 253:17
190:2,3 159:25 meeting 3:6 197:21 267:19 misled 236:2
217:8 meaningless 3:13,14 198:1 Mike 116:25 missed 53:21
MAURICE 1:1 74:5 67:22 68:1 301:20 117:1 119:5 94:1 131:5
1:15 5:3 means 88:15 68:5,9 75:4 Memoranda 225:16 misstating
307:7 88:15 101:8 139:2 284:19 283:5,6 67:3
maximize 108:23 139:7,14 memorand... Milan 84:20 misuse 191:5
286:17 143:11 140:2,6 4:17,19 85:1 171:19 Mm-hmm
289:3 157:25 141:7,18,25 284:11,24 Milbury 283:5 13:6 59:12
McKee 222:17 178:3 149:23 285:1,5,13 283:17,25 59:21 60:2
McKenzie 183:23 150:5,7,17 285:23 284:1 60:18 147:4

612.338.3376
Page 331
151:17 MTBI 159:24 near 273:9 278:25 neurosurg... 26:17 27:22

185:19 MTI 104:8 nearly 186:18 294:9 267:16 28:16,24
190:19 multiple necessarily 305:25 never 20:17 29:1,9
191:10 45:19 51:1 66:19 neurodege... 20:18 30:22 30:14 32:20
266:9 285:9 100:18 80:21 81:14 126:24 37:23 47:22 33:23 34:8
Mm-mmm 177:9 204:8 90:2 103:4 127:20 48:22 54:4 34:16 35:1
178:4 multiplying 115:6 133:19 54:5,10 36:10,22
models 153:2 220:9 148:18 134:5,15 74:18 75:4 37:12,18,24
154:22 mumbling 157:24 143:20 107:15 38:16 39:14
155:18 190:13 257:4 245:21 112:12 39:15,24
modern Murphy 262:16 246:8 113:24 40:3,11,25
303:20 116:25 275:23 247:17 129:6 40:25 41:7
304:8 117:1 119:5 necessary 253:6 139:14 41:11 42:20
modify 87:5 119:6,12 13:7 193:20 neurological 178:13 45:8 46:16
87:14 mutually 198:21 39:21 82:13 181:6 46:17 47:20
mollify 17:5 necessitates 263:6 186:15 48:3,4
225:23 128:20 271:25 192:16,20 50:16 51:10
Molson N neck 262:20 273:9 204:3,4 51:13,18
223:14,15 N-E-S-N 262:22 274:15 207:8,13 54:2,17
223:15 173:1 need 8:20,22 276:18 234:10 55:9 65:14
mom 108:17 name 6:8 8:23 55:17 neurologist 237:25 66:2 67:13
moment 16:5 32:9 55:22,25 12:22,24 258:7 70:8,13
14:12 39:7 69:13 65:6 167:2 13:1,3 280:25 72:16,24
212:23 107:12,16 178:7 92:20 100:3 281:3,4 73:10 82:7
293:4 108:11 182:19 101:19 new 1:18 82:19 86:17
Monday 126:4,6 183:12 130:20,23 2:10,10,14 87:4,4,21
110:24 128:9 213:25 145:4 239:6 2:14 7:4 88:1 93:15
money 50:17 129:25 220:17,20 neurologists 14:7 15:9 94:14
138:11 150:9 225:18 222:15 19:3 21:21 100:22
291:21 159:10 273:25 258:3,11 102:23,24 102:12
monitoring 213:8 286:11 272:15 135:18,25 103:13
77:24 214:19 288:5,16 neurology 153:2,3 104:24
Montador 239:11 needs 162:11 39:12 99:25 154:21 105:7,14
279:8 259:18 Neely 53:16 100:5,15 164:6 107:3 114:3
281:25 260:7 267:1 140:24 263:18 173:21 114:6,8
Montador's 267:24 282:23 267:16 231:8 117:6 120:7
279:24 names 14:16 neither 59:23 276:20 266:18 120:17,24
months 11:3 32:3,13 112:14 neuropsyc... 308:1,6 121:7,16,24
159:21 302:19 237:21 271:1 news 4:3 122:2,10,12
Montreal narrow 206:2 250:24 neuropsyc... 155:14 122:20
223:16,16 national 1:7 NESN 172:9 41:15 201:18,21 123:3,12
morning 7:9 2:11,15 6:4 172:25 233:10,23 newspaper 124:5,15
mother 6:17,20,24 173:5,7,9 neuropsyc... 202:19 126:13
189:13 8:2 61:25 173:12,13 46:15 232:25 127:13
move 70:23 62:6,18 176:9 neuropsyc... NFL 4:13 134:13
94:12 210:6 72:11 165:3 network 258:11 196:22 135:25
213:15 165:4 198:3 173:6,22 Neuropsyc... 248:24 136:11
214:12 223:7 235:3 283:11,15 235:3 249:9,9,10 137:10,21
220:3,4 254:2 neuro 145:4 neuroscien... 249:25 138:15
235:21 289:14 neurocogni... 268:13 251:11 142:9,10
moved nature 29:24 253:6 neurosurg... 294:11 150:5 155:3
157:12 220:10,10 264:19 145:4 295:5 301:5 155:15
movie 170:20 303:20 272:2 222:16 NHL 4:4 7:1 156:2,3,8
moving 109:2 305:13 274:17 258:3,11 17:24 18:6 156:14,23
219:18 nausea 275:5,12 268:13 18:23 19:10 160:4 170:5
MRI 270:24 300:19 276:14 269:1 19:16,24 186:12,15

612.338.3376
Page 332
187:5,23 NHL-NHLPA Notwithsta... 49:14 50:18 155:20 253:15,16

193:2,10 41:19 188:6 51:11 55:12 156:6,16,25 256:8,17
196:15,20 233:12 November 56:10,19 160:22 257:23
197:12 nhl.com 4:19 260:14 57:3,10 161:5,16 258:5,14
200:12,14 211:5 293:14 58:11,17 162:4 163:5 262:6
201:10,11 NHL1784464 297:12,20 60:25 61:15 164:11,23 264:23
201:11,22 43:12 nuance 85:22 63:5,18 165:18 271:7 274:6
202:2,3,4 NHLPA 48:4 number 6:5 64:13,20,22 166:25 274:22
202:21,25 70:1,22,25 13:18 15:7 66:3 67:1,3 168:8 169:9 275:7,14,19
203:25 70:25 82:20 53:5 73:5 67:16 70:17 169:18 276:8
207:14,21 248:4 299:7 73:13 88:24 72:6,17,25 170:8 277:15
208:19 299:12 159:22 74:16 75:1 176:19,20 280:4
209:1,8,22 300:8 171:5 75:18 76:2 176:25 290:22
210:20 301:17 195:21 76:14 77:2 177:14 291:6 292:2
215:3 NHLPA's 197:12,13 77:15 78:5 179:3,16,24 292:13
226:22 286:9 201:25 78:24 79:6 180:3,9,17 295:20
230:2 288:14 207:7 79:17 81:1 181:4,17,19 296:1,7,18
231:17,18 NHLPA/NHL 224:17 83:7 86:11 182:16 302:24
231:21 59:17 271:18 86:21 87:8 183:8 188:8 objected
235:12 NHLTPS 299:5,6,11 87:16 88:6 188:16 163:25
237:25 239:20 301:7 88:21 90:10 192:6 193:3 220:8
239:23 243:8 numbers 90:25,25 193:11,23 255:13
242:25 248:10 164:16 91:17 92:1 195:5,13,15 objecting
245:19 nice 281:13 297:23 92:8,16 196:10,16 78:12
246:6,6 niece 267:23 298:6 93:4 94:11 196:23 110:16
248:4 night 173:22 Nuremberg 94:17,25,25 197:4,16 objection
250:25 257:16 203:7 95:18,22 200:20 29:3 34:20
251:9 252:2 night's 96:6,14 201:1 204:1 113:10
252:6,10 225:16 O 97:16 99:2 205:2 127:23
253:11 nine 52:4 O 7:3 101:20 206:24 144:13
254:23 nodding 8:8 O'Neill 3:24 103:15 208:22 149:10
255:16,17 non-Bates-... 197:22 105:1,8 209:3 210:5 168:17
255:20 232:19 198:2,5,7 106:5,11,17 213:13 175:21
265:14,18 non-playoff 199:19 110:2,2 214:7,11,24 182:13
267:7 238:13 O'Neill's 112:5 217:19 196:7 197:9
283:10,15 nonexisting 199:12 114:19 219:13,20 217:22
285:6 123:20 oath 200:8 115:24 220:1 220:10,11
286:25 nonparty object 10:1 117:20 221:20 220:12,15
287:16,18 6:24 17:2,17 119:15,25 228:23 220:17
287:20 nonpublish... 18:2,8,25 120:20 229:6 230:4 228:18
288:1,10 137:9 19:11,25 121:2,11,19 230:14,25 231:12
290:10,13 nonsuspen... 20:23 21:6 122:5,15,23 231:25 241:22
290:19 111:18 24:16 27:13 123:6,15 235:8,15,20 246:10
291:25 nonviolent 28:19 29:15 124:8,18 237:15 250:5
294:7,10 186:16 30:6,19,24 126:16 238:5 251:12,12
295:8,18 Nope 178:6 31:3 32:21 131:17 240:19 252:24
296:14,22 normally 33:7,18 133:4,7,21 242:8 243:4 254:24
298:14,21 45:3 52:6 34:10,20 134:7 135:1 243:20 263:21
299:18 52:21 81:18 35:6 36:5 136:7,13 244:5 291:25
301:11 North 7:4 36:24,24 137:12 245:23 300:10
304:21,25 14:5 25:13 37:9,25 142:21 247:20 302:2,8
305:3 Notary 1:20 38:7,18 143:21 248:16 303:6
NHL's 27:19 308:5,19 40:5,5 41:3 144:2,23 249:19 objection's
31:21 41:15 note 232:19 44:23 45:11 145:14,25 250:3 303:7
72:3 233:9 299:5 45:20 47:13 148:12 251:21 objections
233:23 noted 250:5 47:16 48:18 154:10,19 252:5 253:7 127:2

612.338.3376
Page 333
220:24 107:19 94:14,21 212:1,3 Omalu 222:17 253:25

objective 125:6 150:3 96:2 97:14 213:12,16 on-ice 18:21 254:1
67:6 78:17 153:24 97:22 99:10 213:20 300:19 opportunistic
170:2 158:13 99:15,19 214:4,14 on-side 73:14 216:18
objectives 176:23 101:15,25 215:15 once 35:21 opportunity
270:18 202:4 207:6 102:6 218:21 167:6 16:23
observe 227:4 268:7 103:19 221:6 222:2 229:16 220:17
187:14 270:5,16 104:13 225:10 238:18 238:19
observers 298:8 106:16 227:4 228:8 239:19 293:16
190:18,24 OHL 70:2,5 109:10,13 232:20 283:8 opposed
obtain 270:18 70:15 72:15 113:4 116:8 233:6,11 295:11 111:2,11
obvious 72:22 73:9 116:14 236:9 one's 66:12 order 131:19
240:3 74:8,15,15 118:8 238:23 78:9 138:21 organization
248:20 74:24 75:16 123:25 242:25 ones 103:7 14:2 22:2
obviously 79:15,22 127:1,22 244:21 103:25 32:14 53:11
60:5 181:16 okay 8:4,13 128:6,16 245:1,11,18 170:22 140:10
238:3 242:5 8:20 9:7,13 130:3,12,19 248:21 282:22 282:23
279:21 9:22 10:18 130:22,25 250:5,10 283:2,3 organized
occasion 10:25 12:13 131:8 133:2 252:18 300:4 153:7
101:18 12:18 13:2 135:5,15 254:3 258:2 onset 256:1 originally
occasionally 16:14 18:1 138:1,25 259:21 257:11,13 115:13
25:19 19:23 20:15 139:12 261:14 Ontario 70:6 219:22
occasions 21:20 22:8 140:21 262:8 71:14 72:3 orthopedic
198:25 23:4,12 141:14 264:16 150:6 82:3,9,10
229:14 25:16 27:2 143:25 265:7 operation 82:12
occupation 27:17 28:8 145:21 267:12,22 76:21 Ottawa 150:3
14:4 28:11 30:1 146:5,20 268:1,4,5 operational 150:6,20
occur 148:8 36:20 37:4 147:1,7 270:2 52:7 out-of-cont...
148:20 39:5,20,23 148:14 272:11,23 operationally 262:3
194:7 42:8,22 149:5,17 274:11 52:9 outcome
occurred 43:6,22,24 151:4,21 278:15 operations 176:8
147:13 44:11,13,17 154:12 279:7 69:18,21 242:24
October 45:5 46:11 155:14 280:12 117:6 outcomes
119:5 46:24 47:3 156:2,22 284:8 opinion 17:22 103:24
224:24 47:24 48:10 157:6,17 285:12 18:22 36:20 303:11
off-side 50:10 51:16 159:17 286:2 36:23 37:17 outfitted
73:14 51:23 52:24 160:16 288:23 55:16,21 294:8
offense 191:4 53:9,18,21 172:3,8,19 291:10 57:25 87:10 outline 24:10
offered 217:1 54:20 55:1 173:7,10 293:19 87:19 106:9 outreach
221:8 56:14 57:21 174:16 294:5 297:4 132:18 289:13
offhand 60:12,21,23 175:14 298:8 148:4,5,7 outright
153:25 61:5,12 176:5 299:15 148:18 194:10
officer 26:17 63:2 65:6 179:13 301:14 163:14,21 204:23
97:4 65:10,17,20 185:3 188:3 303:9 165:24 outside 29:24
offices 1:16 66:1 67:19 188:22 304:17 169:20 63:19
official 57:15 68:5 69:2 190:14 305:9,17,23 174:3,11,24 132:12
192:17 69:10,20 191:13 306:2,16 181:21 overall
officially 70:11,21 194:25 old 9:16 184:24 300:22
191:2 71:3,13 195:10 88:23 89:4 195:2,25 overcome
officials 73:18 75:24 196:4 119:10 226:13,15 262:13
18:21,21 77:12,19 198:10 189:9 227:21 overdose
67:11 79:22 80:12 199:11,21 old-time 228:15 214:23
187:10 81:6 83:21 202:9,18,22 88:11,19 233:18 overlooking
oh 9:18 26:15 85:1 89:7 204:21 90:3 opinions 242:22
44:9 46:10 90:6 91:10 210:19 old-timers 187:4 212:7 Owing 303:20
60:16 69:19 91:13 92:12 211:1,20 225:22 226:13 owner 7:22

612.338.3376
Page 334
15:20,24 pages 3:6,7,8 158:8,9 286:3 299:20 287:7

16:3 17:10 3:9,13,15 163:13 passing pent-up performing
17:16 20:9 3:16,19,22 170:12 89:20 215:2 195:3 49:7 272:22
20:11,16 4:5,7,8,9,15 174:6,9 261:18 people 22:4 period 12:6
21:2 22:5,9 4:16,18,20 194:3,5 pathological 26:11 31:17 20:15 21:17
26:14 48:6 67:22 84:5 200:15,24 303:11,21 31:24 32:1 37:22 38:4
48:15,25 93:9 97:20 203:12,25 patients 32:5 46:19 49:10 50:5
50:23 76:18 139:3 205:8 143:8 51:3 52:14 50:11
94:16,24 149:24 206:15 Patrice 128:5 66:11 76:20 132:11
140:7 158:23 224:13 Paul 171:20 78:10,16 133:5,25
192:18 159:13,15 226:20 paying 80:9 81:19 135:24
223:11 185:12 229:10,11 280:16,17 81:23 82:5 186:18
229:22,24 189:1 209:9 229:11 penalize 82:10 90:14 194:19
274:3 276:3 210:11,11 230:24 114:18,25 103:24 254:18
owners 15:17 224:15 231:5 188:11 134:21,22 periods 89:10
27:11 50:17 232:12 236:12 penalized 136:15,18 permanent
210:20 238:15 242:11,20 18:15 51:4 151:17 250:12
218:24 260:10 265:20,21 85:9 87:4 152:1 154:1 264:18
223:3,8 266:1 267:17 114:22 163:11 272:1
225:24 292:24 289:13 116:19 170:12 274:17
226:6 297:13 293:19 161:8 188:4 180:20 275:5,12
ownership 307:2 298:1 188:12,18 182:8 186:3 276:20
49:11 pain 129:10 partial 15:24 188:21 190:5 201:6 278:25
102:15 237:5 participate 191:1 206:8 208:2 300:25
123:11 Palmetto 2:3 81:20 82:6 193:10 208:3 person 21:16
173:3 Panel 298:15 109:25 194:9 222:11 40:13,20
205:13,22 299:19 162:19 195:10 226:10,11 45:23 66:18
206:7 300:7 173:13 penalizes 227:15 66:22 95:10
223:12 paper 24:14 246:13 65:15 235:5 106:10
227:16 30:15 269:20 penalizing 239:14 178:25
189:24 participated 218:18 241:1 182:3
P paragraph 151:18 penalties 252:18 255:19
p.m 160:9 46:11,12 157:9 18:17 115:5 257:15 personal
200:1 98:17 142:8 166:22 188:6 258:17 256:2
224:25 143:5,6 particular 216:17 265:4,13,23 257:13,17
306:17 147:2 152:7 217:16 268:21 personally
PA 98:6 159:19 159:23 penalty 87:1 269:6 21:13 40:16
255:13 186:6 181:13 115:14,17 274:25 47:22 99:20
pacifist-mi... 190:17 particularly 116:22 275:2 99:22
186:12 286:7 100:24 176:3 284:17,23 123:22,24
page 3:2 4:2 paragraphs parties 80:5 187:11 296:9,10 134:25
5:2 46:3,4 233:22 80:6 99:13 198:17 299:5,6,11 264:17
69:16 142:1 parentheses partners 217:3,6 people's 282:18
142:3,5,25 85:24 219:7 218:20 291:13 294:25
146:24 parents party 156:10 225:2 292:17 Peter 69:12
150:21 304:10 pass 101:13 240:25 perceived 140:11
152:15 Park 2:3 239:15 pending 138:20,22 PHATS 248:4
159:20 266:17 passed 43:21 215:3 percent Phillips 273:6
160:8 186:5 part 11:7 100:13 penetrated 190:5 211:2 Philly 126:4
190:8,16 18:6 31:17 144:12 219:1 211:4,6 phone 26:22
210:9 51:1,2 214:15,20 Penguins percentage phrase 88:11
224:24,24 63:15 64:14 215:9 108:15 210:23 89:24
233:7 82:2 84:16 259:22 Penn 209:14 performance 174:16,25
261:22,22 93:18 261:19,19 Pennsylvania 160:4 175:12,14
270:8,9,14 148:21 279:8,14,17 68:2 performed 278:23,23
293:25 156:11 279:24 Penny 299:12 272:7,12,13 physical

612.338.3376
Page 335
49:25 50:1 205:20 186:1 194:1 21:12,21,24 145:23 294:7,10,23

78:8 82:2 230:2 194:14 29:19 33:24 155:15 295:19
85:7 113:23 242:18 206:8,11 34:8,17 156:3,14 296:15,21
114:12 243:2 244:3 218:19 36:10,14,15 157:23 296:24
193:25 245:3,7 226:21 36:23 37:2 160:20 298:17,20
205:16 257:5 231:19 37:7,16,19 161:3,15 298:21,24
206:16 279:19 280:11,15 38:5 40:8 162:15,17 301:16,17
218:6 301:16,24 283:5 41:9 44:20 162:25 301:25
228:10,14 placed player 28:11 45:8 46:17 163:2,25 302:5
229:9,11,15 224:18 29:9 30:2 48:8,10,16 166:17,18 304:21,25
229:16 places 268:19 30:16 49:1 49:5,25 168:3 169:4 305:4,10,18
230:17 plaintiff 6:15 49:12 66:13 55:5 57:7 169:25 305:23
305:13 plaintiffs 2:5 70:13 78:4 61:13,25 174:18 playing 49:6
physicality 6:13 23:13 85:1 91:13 62:6,16 180:15 87:5,14
50:12 301:4 91:24 92:6 63:16 66:15 187:3,18,25 88:1 93:24
205:12,19 plastic 158:6 92:12 96:2 67:13 69:24 193:21 120:12
205:19 158:8 96:10 97:2 72:15,20,24 195:2,4 234:19
206:6,12 play 15:2 97:6,7 98:8 73:13 77:23 198:24 240:4,17
230:12,20 23:4 67:7 102:17 78:12,12,15 203:2,9 254:23
230:22 72:3,5 106:24,25 80:22 84:24 205:13,14 280:22
physically 86:25 133:1 108:10,11 87:5,13 206:1,7,22 281:14
90:14 129:2 133:16,25 113:24 89:10 92:19 208:8 291:3
physicalness 169:14 117:12 94:14,21 210:21,23 305:11
51:2 201:3 195:24 126:23 95:5,14,16 211:3 playoff 84:20
205:5,7 203:2 218:3 128:15 97:11 98:10 212:13 231:22
physician 218:7,8 131:4 98:22,25 215:9 236:25
239:5 228:11,14 133:14 99:9 100:23 218:21,24 238:2,12
299:21 229:15,16 135:25 100:25 219:3 playoffs
physicians 234:18,20 155:3 101:16 225:20 232:7 234:1
12:19 82:17 234:22 186:23 102:20,23 231:7 232:4 240:3,18
239:23 236:4,19,25 193:22 102:24 233:3,24 241:18
243:10 240:10 208:20 103:13 236:3,20 plays 65:4
253:11 265:21 212:11 104:15,23 240:8 206:17,18
297:22 279:11,12 213:8 105:6,14 245:20 242:21
physiologic 279:16 214:19 115:4 246:7,11,12 pleasant
270:24 281:4,5,10 225:13,15 116:10 247:13,16 106:13
piece 30:15 281:16,17 229:24 117:17 248:24 please 6:10
170:4,4 281:17,18 230:18 118:15 249:9,10 8:14 34:2
172:7,15 281:22 231:19,22 119:23,23 253:14,19 73:23 85:20
218:12 282:3 291:7 231:23 120:7,18,25 254:17,22 172:4 199:4
pilot 294:5 302:7 234:19,24 121:8,17 257:5 215:17
Pittsburgh played 73:4,9 235:12 122:2,13,21 263:12 298:10,13
68:2 74:3 88:15 236:16 123:3,14 267:7 298:21,25
place 18:23 89:5,7 93:3 237:3 238:2 124:5,15,15 270:19 300:14
28:15,25 93:6,7 240:5,9,16 126:13 274:4 275:6 plural 294:17
30:15 32:19 94:23 95:17 255:20 127:13,19 275:10,23 Plus 111:22
32:20 68:7 97:8 107:3 270:21,22 127:25 276:2,5,22 point 36:10
68:9 88:20 108:14,15 279:16 128:4 276:24 51:17 63:14
120:17,24 111:19,20 285:2,7 131:13 282:22 64:4 70:21
122:12,20 112:10 player's 133:24 286:9 74:21 75:10
123:13 113:17 49:13 77:12 135:18 287:18,23 75:11 79:10
131:1 117:15 236:24 136:11 288:3,4,13 95:14 111:1
139:19 119:7,13 237:3,11,12 137:10,22 289:16 111:9
141:7 145:5 172:23 players 1:8 138:5,15 290:20,21 117:10
170:6 176:5 4:13 6:4 144:10 291:3 292:1 165:22,24
200:19 178:12 20:22 21:5 145:13,19 292:12 166:2,5

612.338.3376
Page 336
182:6 186:9 poster 246:19 24:13 preventative problem 270:19

186:25 247:15 presented 286:22 16:16 272:3
204:13 248:14 245:11 287:15 129:11 274:18
256:12,15 250:25 presently preventing 236:18 profession...
260:5 251:9,11 32:16 157:8 262:25 173:14
264:16 301:11 president preview 268:15 profusion
274:8 284:6 potential 22:12,17 172:4 problems 270:24
pointed 121:9 122:3 57:17 117:5 previewed 126:14,24 program 24:8
194:10,22 123:4 125:2,5,18 142:11 127:14,20 41:16
216:12 126:14,23 165:3 previous 128:18 150:24
policies 54:21 127:14,19 184:17 271:23 276:14 151:22
123:12,17 128:18 185:17 274:14 280:24 203:4
policy 67:14 131:15,21 189:6 276:17 291:4 233:10,23
70:16 71:8 248:15 191:14 278:14,18 305:25 254:2 289:1
198:22 302:6 198:2,12 278:19 Procedure programs
199:13,18 potentially 204:10,15 previously 1:16 286:15
poorly 111:16 216:3 262:3 204:16 18:8 procedures 287:2,6
populations power 56:25 235:2 260:4 primarily 120:17,23 290:2
303:15 57:8 61:13 266:14,25 16:18 22:1 122:12,20 progress
position practical 56:3 283:1 147:15,20 306:12 153:18
100:12 practices president/... 149:1 proceed 199:2
105:23 286:15 94:5 152:23 304:8 project 294:5
109:2,5,11 287:2,6 pressure primary 53:1 process projects
109:14 289:1 108:6,20 principal 21:24 60:6 293:24
111:6 pre-existing 109:24 13:23 15:17 65:4 66:11 promote
112:16 276:23 304:11 16:24 75:5 76:19 175:19
114:3,6,14 pre-identifi... pressured principally 110:10 194:12
160:25 302:25 105:7 22:18 153:18 203:14
177:4 194:6 pre-marked pressurized prior 16:3 304:4 promoted
205:11 171:11 216:25 28:14,24 produce 201:10,12
213:3 224:9 232:14 presumably 64:1 70:23 23:12 promotes
225:4 precede 117:16 96:24 97:1 produced 175:23
227:16 244:9,12 305:10 97:4 111:21 23:20 44:10 promotional
253:23 precedence presumption 124:3,13 201:22,23 172:7,15
273:25 48:25 49:12 114:21 131:3,23 product promptly
292:4 precisely 295:22 182:10 78:18 250:12
positive 96:3 pretty 58:1 251:3 158:25 300:20
75:22 preconceived 69:15 77:6 290:20 159:11 301:2
178:17 17:20 19:6 107:16 292:19 166:8,10,13 pronounce
possibility Predators 241:11 private 169:24 267:24
169:16 223:9 270:6 176:17 200:15,24 proper 96:13
254:21 preparation 296:21 privileged productive 165:9
304:12 185:7 prevent 215:4 128:15 properly
possible 67:8 prepare 9:24 103:2,14 pro 44:19 133:14 121:17,24
78:19 180:8 presence 104:16,25 probably products 122:13,22
246:7 294:1 127:11 136:4,11 58:3 68:14 159:5 250:12
303:22 308:10 137:11,22 81:16,17 professional proposal
possibly present 2:17 138:16 99:25 76:11 95:6 59:15,24,24
270:21 6:10 115:3 147:16,16 133:13,13 144:9 267:6 269:9
postconcus... 127:6 150:7 147:21,21 167:4 175:4 145:12,18 272:18,23
129:12 303:18 149:1,2,6,8 184:23 145:22 273:1
posted 304:7 149:17 228:1 157:23 274:21
246:17 presentation 152:24 252:19 195:4 196:2 propose
247:4,6 142:12 154:17 262:18 196:5 217:6
298:23 152:4 193:21 273:23 197:14 proposed
301:16,24 presentati... 241:16 281:21 248:5 70:1 75:10

612.338.3376
Page 337
272:8,10,15 provided 14:18 217:22 82:18 83:8 170:9

277:6 261:1 177:24 218:11 86:12,22 175:22
292:11 299:18 178:2,3 87:9,17,22 177:1,2,15
proposing provides purchased Q 88:7,22 179:4,17,25
273:13 245:19 16:17,21 qualified 90:11,17 180:3,10,18
prosecutor 246:6 17:23 45:23 91:1,2,18 181:5,18,18
203:7 prudent purchases 221:23 92:2,9,17 181:19
prospective 286:8 210:15 qualify 291:8 93:5 94:8 182:14,17
294:12 288:12 purchasing qualifying 94:10,11,18 182:20
303:19 psychiatric 210:17 103:5,8 95:1,11,19 183:9,13
protect 77:23 304:2 pure 201:7 quality 281:7 95:23 96:7 187:1,16
120:7 137:5 psychologi... purported 289:19 96:15 97:17 188:9,17
138:23 294:9 153:3 quarrel 99:3 101:12 192:7 193:4
160:19 psychologist purports 42:3 277:25 101:21 193:12,16
163:1 240:8 167:9 67:25 84:11 question 8:16 103:16 193:24
protected public 1:20 97:23 139:6 9:6 10:2 105:2,9 195:6,14
136:20 203:16 185:16 17:3,18 106:6,12,18 196:11,17
137:6 218:13 224:19 18:3,7,9 110:3 112:6 196:24
protecting 308:5,19 266:5 19:1,2,3,12 113:11 197:5,17
138:21 publication purpose 19:19 20:1 114:20 199:5
153:10 59:15 99:14 184:4 20:24 21:7 115:25 200:14,21
protection 171:22 184:10 24:17 27:14 117:21 201:2 204:2
120:14 published 206:4 28:20,22 118:6 205:3
294:20 137:8 209:20 29:16 30:7 119:16 206:25
protective 246:16 210:2 30:20,25 120:1,21 208:23
102:7 303:18,22 purposes 32:22,24 121:3,12,20 209:4
103:23 304:5 16:19 17:7 33:8,19 122:6,16,24 213:14,15
104:18 puck 206:14 28:12 142:4 34:11,21,23 123:7,16 214:8,12,25
120:10 puked 94:1 pursuant 35:7,20 124:9,19 215:5
152:22 pull 237:2 1:15 36:2,6,25 126:17 217:20
protocol 28:7 pulled 202:21 pursue 37:10 38:1 127:7,8 219:14,21
64:20 punch 111:15 286:14,25 38:8,19 131:18,23 219:25
protocols 111:17 288:25 40:6 41:4 133:8,22 220:1,3,4
27:20,23,25 punched 290:1 44:4,24 134:8 135:2 221:21
28:6,15,25 178:25 push 205:17 45:12,21 136:8,14 228:24,25
29:7,12,13 179:9,22 pushing 47:14,17 137:13 229:7,18
29:17 30:1 punches 109:2,4 48:19,21 142:22 230:5,5,15
30:3,14,16 112:2,18,22 194:5 49:15 50:19 143:22 231:1,3,13
30:22 31:4 112:24 207:18 51:12 55:13 144:3,14,24 232:1,7
31:11 32:20 177:9,12 put 28:15,25 56:11,20 145:15 235:9,16,21
33:5,13,16 punching 31:24 32:1 57:4,11 146:1 235:22
39:25 112:22 32:20 63:13 58:12,18 148:13 236:1
120:16 114:12 102:25 61:1,16,19 154:11,20 237:16,17
241:18,21 punish 137:1 63:6,9,13 155:21 238:6
242:17 180:14 189:16 63:19 64:14 156:7,17 240:20
243:1,18 192:11,13 206:9 64:23 65:2 157:1 241:23
244:3,23 204:24 211:23 66:4 67:2,4 160:23 243:5,21
245:3,7 227:11 232:2 233:3 67:17 70:18 161:6,17 244:6,18
proven punishable 242:18 70:24 72:7 162:5,21 245:24
154:17 180:21 243:2 244:3 72:18 73:1 163:6 247:21
277:12,14 191:24,25 244:19 74:17 75:2 164:12,24 248:17
provide 192:10 245:7 248:3 75:19 76:3 165:19 251:13,22
169:25 punished 249:7 273:2 76:15 77:3 166:4,23 251:24
247:15 180:12,22 278:6 77:16 78:6 167:1,7 252:6,25
251:10 180:24 putting 78:25 79:7 168:18 253:8,16,17
294:20 purchase 170:23 79:18 80:15 169:10,19 254:25

612.338.3376
Page 338
255:16 93:25 216:18 realize 102:9 128:4 131:7 226:7

256:9,18,19 160:10 reactions 190:14 132:23 260:23
257:24 185:25 45:17,19 269:6 135:24 262:11
258:6,15 203:2,8,12 136:15 really 21:8 142:23 286:1
262:7 225:19,20 208:15 29:13 74:20 151:4 recommen...
264:24 234:14,14 read 4:12 112:24 153:15 55:18,23
271:8 274:7 234:16,17 34:1,2 36:1 118:9 120:9 213:12 56:4 219:3
274:23 234:21,22 43:14,22,25 153:19 214:15 219:4,18
275:8,15,20 234:23 44:3,6,7,22 163:21 243:22 recommen...
276:9 235:2,4 44:25 45:4 168:20 260:21 55:10
277:16 quote/unq... 46:22 54:2 181:13 261:7,10 reconsider
280:5 111:3 54:6,12 182:20 290:12 220:25
281:12 136:19 56:7 64:2 184:4 185:5 301:3,18 record 6:1,11
286:24 182:21 68:4 93:18 215:20,22 receive 24:6 35:24 43:11
289:22 189:25 93:20 108:3 216:9 24:8,13 83:24 84:2
290:4,15,23 191:5 111:7 118:6 237:18 163:14 135:9,12,16
291:7,8 205:18 152:19 241:19 287:4 171:23,25
292:3 240:9 155:5,14 242:12 received 172:1
295:21 quoted 47:8 186:6,10,23 244:17 141:2 218:9 194:21
296:2,8,19 203:1,19,23 190:10,11 256:6 239:10 199:23,24
304:23,25 234:14 190:14 265:15 254:23 200:2
questionable quotes 98:23 191:8,8 268:2 280:1 285:12 217:23
130:11 206:9 233:7 203:17 280:7 receives 219:24
questioned 234:2,6,10 212:23 reason 16:24 59:16 220:18,18
219:22 234:10 219:23,24 23:9 43:24 receiving 236:15,16
questioning 234:5 235:6 54:11 64:11 12:15 254:5,8
236:21 R 235:19 81:25 87:13 261:16 259:5 278:5
questions R 7:3,3 236:7 96:5 98:24 306:13 278:7 284:9
8:14 9:5 racehorses 238:21 99:16 recess 84:1 293:6 297:8
80:17 116:4 11:8 248:24 108:21 135:11 297:14
172:22 radical 225:5 270:2,5 110:1 113:8 200:1 254:7 298:7
203:6 214:1 raiser 273:8 278:23 113:13 297:10 299:16
249:22 raises 255:24 279:23 119:14,18 recipients 300:13
297:3,5 255:25 285:23 148:1,21,24 284:20 301:15
298:24 256:1 257:9 293:16,19 149:4 154:3 recognize 306:8
301:10 257:11,20 294:3 298:9 155:11 84:15 recorded
302:11 ran 273:7 298:12 163:10 187:11 8:25
306:3,4 ratio 235:1 299:15 194:17 205:15 recover
quick 35:20 Raton 2:4 300:12 198:23 209:18 247:25
83:21 139:11 301:15 219:1 246:25 248:19
quicker 140:2 302:18 221:18 247:23 294:24
300:23 Ray 282:25 303:13 251:9 248:18 recovered
quickly 299:22 304:17 269:15 252:3,6 281:1,3,4
111:14,15 reach 149:11 307:1 274:20 304:9 recovery
quiet 98:20 165:9 286:8 reading 283:13 recognizing 271:24
99:10 288:13 64:14 286:12 46:19 274:15
Quinn 259:18 reached 141:14 302:22 recollection 276:18
260:2,3,15 217:1 221:8 225:7 304:14,20 7:25 8:3 278:20
261:20 288:4,17 301:20 reasons 17:1 16:12 17:25 reduce 153:4
quite 74:5 reaching 302:21 216:21 31:13 38:23 155:3
183:13 167:25 303:4,5 279:22 86:14 94:22 156:24
239:13 reaction reads 302:23 recall 8:4 101:22,25 159:25
268:1 283:7 211:16 real 35:20 9:15 12:2,7 126:19 298:17
284:4 236:24 269:8 23:12 38:4 131:24 300:22
quote 46:17 237:4 250:2 reality 98:21 38:11 80:11 141:16,22 reduced
47:6,8 reactionary 99:11 83:19 117:4 215:11 115:21

612.338.3376
Page 339
116:22 205:12 relatives 14:1 repeatedly request 41:8

153:12 regarded relativity 121:10 69:18,20 rest 162:13
308:10 184:19 180:20 122:4 123:5 requests 190:12
reduces regarding remain 186:1 124:6,17 23:15 219:24
155:10 29:1 83:17 remains 246:9 Require 56:1 227:16
reducing 86:8 121:8 304:1 repetitive required 56:2 restate 118:2
156:4 126:13 remember 250:11 56:17 118:4
reduction 127:4,19 16:6 42:15 252:3,14 135:25 rested 12:3,6
115:17 142:13 69:11 84:18 253:4 265:5 250:2 restraint
refer 47:14 143:7 84:23 86:4 rephrase requires 203:3
49:23 61:2 160:11 86:7 132:22 8:15 55:20 64:20 result 124:6
77:25 90:4 189:21 150:17 252:10 research 124:16
112:15 259:8 151:1,3 replace 282:2 270:10 128:19
301:11 261:11 153:17,23 replaced 295:14 130:16
referee 284:24 167:14 193:1 300:21 133:19
161:12 290:10 189:8,11 Replying reserve 48:12 134:6
referees 298:24 204:16,17 203:6 resistance 206:19,20
33:15 301:10 230:7 report 137:16 102:17 225:3 272:1
reference regardless 233:13 142:6 resisted 274:16
175:9 72:23 78:3 255:11 150:23 215:20 275:4
referenced 216:21 258:18 154:21 216:10 276:19
101:9 240:10 265:2 279:7 247:24 resolution 277:18
references regional 280:9,13 248:19 300:23 278:12,24
101:9 173:6 293:8 300:20,24 Resort 292:10
referred regs 225:16 remembers 301:2 302:6 139:16 300:23
45:17 62:20 regular 237:1 93:23 308:7 resources resultant
75:10 80:9 282:25 remote reported 154:4 163:15
167:5 182:3 regulated 169:16 152:17,21 286:11 resulted
183:5 301:8 162:12 removal 153:2 288:15 199:3
referring rehab 294:23 207:23 reporter 6:7 respect 28:17 resulting
47:10,10,25 rehabbing remove 230:3 8:9 9:1 29:9 40:3 198:17
108:8 109:6 281:23 230:12 16:11 118:7 123:13 250:17
109:9 reinforce 239:11 reporting 212:8 results
143:10 286:10 removed 300:15 227:21 199:10
181:9 288:15 283:19 reports 137:9 responded 277:20
192:23 related 295:2 138:14 260:19 retained
194:23,23 137:24 removing 159:21 responding 39:15,17
199:19 159:23 230:2,11 303:21 215:24 151:6
242:5 160:1 299:7 repeat 36:2 representa... responds retention
259:17 303:16 76:7 124:10 227:25 59:4 60:3,4 22:12
271:6 304:11 repeated representa... 60:12 160:9 retired 274:4
295:16 relates 1:9 101:9 159:6 217:10 290:21
298:5 64:5 152:22 126:15,25 representa... 255:11,22 292:1,12
refers 111:5 211:17 127:15,21 22:4 300:8 response 294:10
204:12 relating 8:2 245:21 represented 59:5,14 295:18
239:21 303:20 250:17 226:9 60:13 236:3 296:15
267:8 relation 260:24 representing 236:20 retirees
refine 69:22 39:24 264:18 6:20,24 260:17 134:14
reflected relationship 265:1 140:9 responsibil... retrospective
150:9,10 20:21 21:3 271:25 represents 37:5 52:13 294:11
refreshes 62:9,15,25 274:16 62:15 223:7 54:14,16 retrospecti...
260:22 304:19 275:4,11 223:10,11 160:18 210:5
regard 62:22 relative 276:6,19 223:16 responsibil... return 234:22
74:19 153:1 57:24 278:24 303:14 163:1 291:7 302:7
184:21 180:20 294:10 repugnant 246:12 revelation
186:2 308:15 303:24 170:13 responsible 283:23

612.338.3376
Page 340
revelations 81:3,4,4 242:2 251:23 72:8 73:5 166:24

283:20 84:7 85:3 248:10 role 22:8 73:14,17 167:12
revered 88:17 89:15 250:10 39:24 40:2 74:9 115:3 182:4,12,21
181:10 90:20 91:16 256:15 65:4 96:25 120:16,23 183:2,5
reverence 93:18 95:4 258:24 117:3 122:12,19 191:5
181:2 182:6 95:17 96:18 262:4,18 198:10 161:8 163:9 192:21,25
reverential 97:10 98:9 263:12 206:17,18 225:17,19 193:8,16,20
182:8 98:20 99:5 266:7,18 216:24 231:11 195:25
review 99:7,8 268:14,25 217:5 242:3,5 196:8 203:9
238:19 102:8,14,20 269:14 218:19 run 17:11 205:1
260:21 106:1 270:14 242:21 49:8 108:5 225:16
293:4 109:21 272:10,17 265:21 136:22 sake 47:8
reviewed 110:6 115:2 272:19,21 294:23 283:8 256:25
147:23 120:4 124:1 276:4 279:5 room 89:11 rung 89:25 sakes 174:19
298:22 124:2 125:6 281:7 282:8 89:14 98:20 90:8,18,20 salts 92:7
Rick 214:20 125:7 126:6 285:21 99:11 247:7 91:14,15 San 299:22
rid 50:24 128:8 288:20 247:10 94:1 95:17 sand 141:20
168:6 129:20 294:18 rooms 247:4 96:4,12 sat 98:18
169:14 131:7 132:3 298:9 299:3 Roswell 97:12 98:23 99:5 129:16
212:15 135:23 300:2 266:17 running 195:24
223:4 140:7 rights 62:24 route 215:19 126:11 satisfactory
255:10 147:17 ring 101:10 216:9 runs 174:22 17:6
ride 184:7 148:21 107:20 217:12,15 Rypien satisfies
rider 11:14 149:9 rink 89:19 RPR 1:20 214:20 203:15
riders 138:3 150:11,13 rinks 89:17 308:19 Savard
138:4 150:15 risk 153:4,13 Ruben 32:4 S 280:13,14
rides 138:7 154:7,9 155:3,10 39:7 46:15 s 7:3 299:13 280:16
ridicule 99:13 160:20 245:20 142:11 S-C-H-O-E-N 282:16
ridiculed 165:8,15 246:7 143:6 239:9 209:15 saw 13:2
98:21 99:11 166:15 247:16 261:5 S-H-A-R-E-... 43:18 92:20
riding 102:5 172:20 270:13 Ruben's 69:14 130:22,24
138:2 157:7 177:11,18 271:20 260:25 S-T-O-R-E-R 173:19
157:15,16 177:20,21 274:13 Rudman 2:1 16:12 174:2,3,13
157:21 180:6,24 275:11 6:13,15 Sabres 15:9 177:8,8
158:7 181:25 298:19 rule 8:7 15:14,21 185:5
265:10 182:2,24 300:16 18:15 53:20 23:5 172:10 205:24
right 14:24 183:25 303:23 55:10,18,24 sad 279:19 241:14
15:11,18 184:16 risk/benefit 56:17,18,25 safe 78:18,19 249:5
16:5 18:17 190:22 234:23 57:8 60:8 78:22 250:22
19:21 20:19 192:25 235:1,12 63:17 64:9 155:19,22 271:21
21:16 24:3 194:13 risked 124:5 65:11,14,17 161:3,15,21 279:19,19
24:5,25 200:5 202:5 124:15 65:21 67:3 162:25 saying 48:2
25:10 31:8 202:8 risks 159:25 67:5,15 169:14 50:21 62:13
34:14,19 208:10,10 304:19,22 70:1,1 71:1 safer 79:4 64:18 80:24
35:13,23,23 209:18 Rizos 299:13 74:14,24 163:4 99:9,12
37:24 38:14 211:18 299:20 75:16 85:23 safety 28:11 112:25
39:1 41:12 216:19 RMR 1:20 87:6,15 28:13,14 114:22,24
43:11 44:4 217:18 308:19 115:10,12 29:9,18 128:21
45:2 46:4,9 218:11 road 2:3 7:4 115:17,18 30:2,17 139:20
47:7 54:13 219:16 222:20 115:21 37:6,19 153:17
55:6 59:11 221:25 291:5 116:5,23 41:9 49:13 163:8,8
62:11 63:3 222:4 225:8 Rob 98:2,7,8 162:1 159:1,11 164:1 165:8
64:3 65:11 225:9 Robbins 2:1 198:21 160:20 165:16
69:5 74:7,9 234:13 6:12,14 231:8 163:2,19 168:1
76:24 77:1 235:20 robust rules 1:15 8:5 164:4,10 181:20
78:4 80:17 237:14 251:20,23 54:24 61:13 165:16 183:25

612.338.3376
Page 341
192:10 249:9 season 19:10 168:21 245:1 247:2 49:4 286:20

193:6 203:2 250:11,16 19:16,24 170:21,22 249:2 250:7 287:12
211:19 257:8 22:22,24 173:20,23 250:9 258:7 289:10
216:1 261:21 35:10 36:4 173:25 262:19 September
217:14 267:6 187:15 177:24 293:8 1:18 213:2
218:18 271:18 196:15,22 178:1,22 sees 31:5 255:7 285:6
227:3,5,7,8 276:15 197:3,8,13 185:18 161:12,12 285:21
227:13,14 277:7 278:5 197:14 190:18 227:16 307:4
227:20 278:12,13 230:2 195:7 199:5 segment series 52:9
232:3,5 278:17 234:25 206:13,13 252:17 218:15
236:3,17,20 279:1 seasons 207:5,13,17 Selectric 283:20
236:23 285:14 294:6 207:19 189:12 303:21
242:22 286:7 second 36:21 208:4 Selectrics serious 46:20
244:13,18 287:10 98:17,17 209:17 189:9 47:24
262:10,14 288:7 143:4,5,6 210:17 sell 169:23 163:23
264:5 265:4 289:23 159:19 216:17 203:13 199:3
274:12,21 293:20 219:11 233:4,5,5 selling 300:16
275:3 277:9 299:17 233:6 248:14 166:12 seriously
281:15 scan 143:2 235:19 250:10,13 203:25 36:23 37:14
289:21 Scarborough 261:21 250:23 sells 200:15 37:16 41:9
293:21 2:13 6:23 285:15 256:3 202:25 serve 184:4
295:11 6:23 73:23 286:7,13 260:22 229:18,22 206:4
says 30:15 262:6 306:4 288:24 268:25 send 139:13 served 17:6
46:8,10,12 scared 217:2 second-last 271:2,14,19 sends 68:16 209:21
46:15 47:10 221:9,11 159:20 272:4 108:2 269:9 service
59:9,14 scheduled second-to-l... 276:11 senior 159:10 238:10
62:21 63:15 186:19 69:16 279:17 sense 31:7 serving 99:13
64:8 67:6 scheduling secretary 283:2,13,14 179:21 184:10
69:17,20 293:21 68:17,18 283:17 181:10 set 243:7
79:20 85:19 Schneider section 270:7 285:3,8,11 184:11 settlement
93:22 94:4 97:25 98:1 271:14 286:21 219:16 250:1
98:16 99:1 98:3 see 12:22,24 287:13 sensors seven 3:15
103:6 108:4 Schoen 21:11 42:6 289:10,12 294:8 4:16 149:24
110:7,25 209:14 43:4,9 46:7 298:9 sent 213:6 175:6 266:1
113:13 school 260:5 46:8 59:6,7 299:13 239:18 severe
119:6,12 science 90:12 59:11,20 seeing 49:2 270:3 129:10,10
142:8 147:9 90:13 91:5 60:1,10,17 207:7 279:20 280:23
147:19 91:7,8,11 60:22 68:3 seek 190:1 284:14,22 severely
150:23 scientific 69:17 70:3 seen 30:22 284:25 180:15
159:19 153:5 74:23 75:15 41:6 43:16 285:24 198:20
164:19 scientifically 84:13,14 43:17 75:4 286:2 204:24
190:23 153:12 85:20 86:2 137:8,16 301:23 severity
191:15,25 154:17 93:16 94:6 138:14 sentence 46:14
193:13 155:10 94:8 104:19 141:1 157:6 98:17 108:4 shaking 8:9
198:14 sclerosis 107:24 159:21 152:16 Shanahan
202:24 100:18 110:6,7 164:9 168:7 186:10 84:12 96:20
204:7 216:5 Scott 2:17 123:10 168:11 187:1 96:21,22
216:6,14 6:8 299:20 125:8 140:4 173:15 216:11 97:24 98:16
217:11 scrappy 142:2,6,14 178:17 219:23 99:1,4
221:7,15 279:15 143:8,9 185:4 238:8 159:12,18
225:12 scratch 147:3,17 186:20 250:16 212:4,7,25
233:21,23 278:15 150:22,24 204:3 271:17 213:6
237:4,6 sdavidson... 152:17 207:13 278:18 215:21,25
239:8,18 2:2 159:6 209:16,19 sentiment 215:25
247:22 se 114:11 166:19 238:24,25 239:15 216:13,15
248:18 257:4 167:4 240:13 separate 217:11,14

612.338.3376
Page 342
221:4,15 189:3,18 240:7 278:20 244:24 265:19

224:22 197:25 241:15 slowing 66:9 257:2 sources
255:8,8 209:11 situations smaller 52:15 292:11 268:21
Shanahan's 210:12 199:1,2 52:16 89:18 somebody's span 215:10
98:12 232:22 six 3:8 7:16 218:5 179:14 speak 12:18
217:25 246:24 13:17 93:9 smart 40:20 someone's 44:20
219:18 260:12 175:6 294:6 222:11 138:23 100:21
221:6 266:3 six-foot-nine 256:16,21 someplace 101:18
share 157:18 271:20 66:14 smelling 92:7 185:6 105:3
shared 199:8 274:12 six-foot-ten smoking son 13:22 130:19
she'll 118:3 275:3 277:7 66:14 89:10 140:18,25 177:16
235:25 292:17,18 size 74:11 Snider 112:4 273:4,5 282:24,25
Shep 6:16 293:2 89:19 112:7 sons 14:15 speaking
277:23 shows 137:25 174:18 sniffers 94:4 150:14,15 30:14 86:7
SHEPARD 2:7 side 163:25 218:3 Snyder 150:16 102:1
shepard.go... 163:25 Skadden 2:6 267:16 sophisticated 131:24
2:8 166:6 6:16,20 soccer 195:20 82:6 166:7 speaks
shift 91:25 208:18 skate 132:25 197:8 184:24,25 177:15
94:2 250:10 skated 273:6 society 206:9,10 279:3
Shore 167:14 sides 237:3 skates 239:24 sorry 9:18 specialized
short 133:25 sign 21:21 177:19,25 243:10 16:8 34:2 216:24
163:7 signed 178:10,20 248:7 57:5 100:8 specialty
178:17 304:13 178:25 249:10 100:14,19 39:12 82:4
195:24 signs 247:23 191:6 soft 147:8,13 101:12 82:15
254:17 248:19 225:21 148:8,20 104:3 specific 9:15
shortcomin... similar 273:4 sold 200:23 146:14 20:25 21:9
187:12 158:17 skating 71:11 soldiers 147:6 36:15 37:20
shorter 89:17 195:7 178:9 154:4,7 150:16 82:19 88:18
89:18,18 similarly 205:10 solid 177:25 153:24 216:21,24
shorthand 34:16 273:5 solution 160:11 270:17
308:9 195:21 skilled 187:7 168:11 specifically
shots 119:8 simple 132:8 255:19 somebody 190:21 36:13
shoving 217:4 257:5 26:7 30:11 210:11 100:24
194:5 234:15 skills 186:14 41:1,12 244:12,15 101:7 105:3
show 58:23 290:4 skull 147:10 54:1 66:19 249:24 265:21
84:9 107:9 simply 185:1 147:14,16 66:21 68:10 261:7 265:2 specificity
119:2 139:5 216:22 147:19,21 77:19 82:12 277:23 128:20
150:1 171:9 303:17 148:10 82:12 86:25 285:11 speculate
171:15 Sinden 3:23 149:2 90:6,8,18 290:16 112:9
172:21 53:15 152:24 90:19 109:4 298:8 speculating
185:14 140:18 156:5 112:11 sort 181:2 156:11
201:20 197:22 slander 113:25 208:17 speculation
203:13,25 198:3,10,14 186:12 114:1 243:14 83:8 303:24
214:8 199:8 slash 255:24 132:14 sorts 184:20 speculative
225:21 single 137:15 slashers 137:2,21 186:2 242:11
238:17 sir 119:2 217:4 152:10 sound 31:19 speech
245:2 249:1 200:7 slashing 157:7 31:22 65:20 176:13,16
251:15 212:21 217:2 164:19 65:24 speeding
255:5 277:14 SLATE 2:6 167:15 151:13 66:10
289:21 sit 63:4 240:1 slide 230:19 178:19 180:5 spell 16:10
297:19 246:5 slide-by 67:9 194:8,16 sounded 69:13
showed 75:3 situation slow 276:18 205:10,17 151:13 spelling 32:8
showing 42:1 109:2 294:23 206:13,14 152:10 spend 11:6
58:25 67:24 240:12,15 slower 212:7 sounds 24:5 spent 106:19
93:11 97:22 241:12 271:24 233:18 112:11 200:11
139:25 situational 274:15 238:11 source 291:21

612.338.3376
Page 343
sphere 29:24 276:2 302:23 70:22,23 209:9,13,22 suffer 11:21

spoke 10:5 standard 304:14,18 87:24 94:12 211:14 133:18
141:24 69:22,24 304:20 124:23 253:12 134:5 291:3
143:7 152:9 153:7 statements 125:16 261:11,17 305:20
233:9 standards 154:15 161:21 262:3 263:4 suffered
291:17 153:9 291:8 199:12 174:12 267:11 11:18 12:9
spoken 114:7 standing 250:24 210:6 268:16 33:23 45:9
114:9 128:2 178:8,10 states 1:5 6:6 213:15 269:9,17,23 100:22
131:20 standpoint 224:25 214:12 270:3,8,9 120:25
141:17 15:6 45:24 stating 34:22 220:3,5 270:14,17 130:15
157:7 stands 65:2 station 173:5 235:21 271:5,9 131:4 132:5
158:18 Stanley 235:2 stay 160:11 string 3:10 272:7,8 290:20
221:3 staph 298:19 stayed 3:11 107:7 273:8,24 305:10
223:17,22 star 4:8 287:25 107:11 274:4 suffering
233:15 231:23 stead 53:25 110:13,21 276:13 45:9 134:14
243:24 232:11,24 Stein 126:7,8 110:22 277:5,11 281:8,20
258:2,10 232:24 126:10 stroke 9:16 292:1,12 296:15
283:24 start 37:12 step 29:8 strong 49:25 294:8,11 305:19
291:15 37:13 81:21 stepping 228:15 295:7,18,24 suffers
spontaneous 132:5 142:3 207:18 269:8 studying 35:2 134:10
163:16 176:14 steps 28:16 strongest 122:11 235:13
194:6 183:15 29:1 120:13 82:10 209:23 240:3
sport 15:4,5 262:12,20 286:22 strongly 222:16 suggest
15:7 51:5 297:6 287:15 112:19 259:16 112:19
66:6 194:1 started 35:1 298:16,18 structural 263:11 230:1 236:7
195:23 37:13 Stern 222:17 52:10 296:10 suggestion
196:5 122:11 Steve 279:8 structured stuff 151:12 276:13
226:19 125:20 281:25,25 49:9 style 87:5,14 suggests
228:3,9,11 126:2 299:25 Stuart 2:1 88:1 216:3
sports 51:7,9 starting 59:2 Steve's 280:2 6:12 sub-concus... 230:11
72:20 103:8 124:3 142:5 stick 167:15 stuck 218:10 303:25 300:21
103:8 173:6 266:5 167:17 studied subject 10:4 suicidal
173:22 starts 46:8 191:6 279:24 61:22 84:19 44:21 45:10
175:5 191:2 147:2 194:16 280:3 189:25 suicide
195:4,8,11 152:16 stiffer 216:16 290:19 264:1 168:12,22
195:21 185:23 stood 119:8 studies 36:12 276:25 169:5,8
196:2,14 189:22 288:6 36:17 87:21 284:25 213:9,11,18
197:14 190:17 stop 136:25 104:22 285:1 302:5 214:5,11
205:9 216:7 191:23 136:22 submitting Suite 2:4
291:19 270:12,17 205:18 137:9 303:2 Summary
303:17 271:17 220:2 164:16 subpart 82:2 270:9
spot 74:10 293:20 280:21 167:12 subscribe sun 141:20
Square 2:9 state 146:10 stopping 245:2 302:19 sundry
Sr 266:8 148:21,25 219:17 273:24 subsequent 136:17
ss 308:2 283:18 Storer 16:8,8 294:12 17:13 296:10
staff 52:8 308:1,6 16:9 295:12 120:14 supplemen...
95:6,15 stated 38:12 stories 303:19 284:5 69:22
298:23 153:6 225:21 304:8 subsequently supplying
300:20 304:20 story 43:9 study 4:5 115:21 300:5
stage 205:22 statement 44:19 93:14 35:5,17 substantial support
205:24 60:24 99:17 137:3 36:3,10 131:5 59:17 71:2
206:2 148:11,17 236:16 39:25 successful 154:24
staged 148:25 strife 44:21 101:17 134:2 155:1
255:12 258:4,8 45:10 124:3,13 sucker 157:10
stake 162:17 277:7 strike 36:21 134:14 111:17 164:17
stamp 201:25 302:18,22 50:15 55:21 155:17 112:21 165:17

612.338.3376
Page 344
216:19 surveys 37:16 52:22 233:8 240:1 226:10 131:25

217:1 221:8 208:12,14 59:16 82:4 240:1,2 233:4 153:16
225:15 susceptible 83:21 88:19 241:6 234:19 192:9
263:3 270:22 109:3 131:1 242:15 236:17 258:19
289:15 suspended 135:7 163:3 254:13 239:10,18 276:22
supporting 85:11,15 166:6 170:3 293:8 239:23 tells 26:3
153:6 198:24 170:20 talked 96:20 245:8 260:4 80:13
suppose suspension 183:20 114:2,5 297:22 ten 137:4
289:5 85:13 161:9 189:15 130:1 299:21 171:2
supposed 161:10 206:14 135:17 teammates 292:16
164:2 194:18 212:23 136:3 97:15 294:13
sure 8:5 21:2 225:3 225:4 228:2 142:16 teams 82:17 ten-minute
32:25 46:2 sustain 228:8,10 199:11 121:8 115:22
56:22 66:7 229:24 230:1,21 216:16 162:19 tend 255:22
76:10 83:23 sustained 235:19 254:16 170:24 257:8
95:9 110:8 46:13 237:7 238:1 283:6,7 217:4 226:9 term 49:20
110:8 111:8 sway 218:25 250:15 talking 35:24 294:7 50:3 57:24
118:1 Sweeney 251:2 36:18 110:5 technical 89:24
125:25 53:16 252:17 111:25 28:9 29:24 109:15,19
128:24 140:22,23 254:3 262:2 112:2,8,20 technically 130:8,9
129:15 140:24 288:11,12 112:23 28:9 132:20,21
134:4 swinging 289:6 293:4 113:3 technology 143:12,25
148:16 178:22 295:13 118:17 153:3 175:13
158:15,21 switch 68:23 297:5,24 129:19 television 189:24
170:4 sworn 7:5 305:9 130:11 23:11 terminology
178:16 308:13 taken 1:15 132:3 186:20 143:1 192:2
187:13 swung 36:22 68:7 143:15 203:3 terms 129:18
198:20 177:10 84:1 135:11 152:11 tell 8:14 9:10 136:16
211:25 symposium 200:1,18 163:24 10:4 28:23 225:6,13,13
213:5 227:2 261:23 228:14 179:6 190:7 30:10 33:11 test 8:22
227:10 symptom 239:13 192:22 45:23 61:12 152:25
242:7 234:1 254:7 196:7 81:3 113:2 159:5
243:16 300:23 286:23 200:11 113:20 tested 155:18
252:10 302:7 287:15 235:14 116:4 testified 7:5
257:6 305:19 297:10 241:3 120:10 48:14 96:2
258:21 symptoms 298:16,19 268:14 132:14 96:10 113:4
267:4,14 130:6 308:7,11 talks 109:7 137:21 136:5 269:4
269:6 273:3 234:15,16 takes 18:23 112:18,21 155:5,23 277:22
291:16 247:24 41:8 48:25 Tape 174:14 222:6 278:1
297:7 248:19 68:9 170:6 174:21,23 236:17,18 testify 47:23
298:22 262:13,21 257:5 174:25 241:9 97:18
302:16 281:8,16 Tale 174:14 175:7 243:12 125:23
surface 218:5 300:14,16 174:21,23 taped 203:4 245:14,16 308:14
surfaces 300:17,20 174:25 targeted 245:17,25 testifying
218:4 300:22,24 175:6 65:15 66:25 251:25 79:13,16
surgery 301:2 talk 9:4,7 69:25 252:17 80:16
268:15 305:20 12:16 31:18 tauopathy 270:11 testimony
surprise syndrome 52:8 73:20 303:14 275:16,24 6:3 77:16
58:15 129:12 74:8 81:18 team 14:23 276:5 83:9 182:11
110:20,20 113:16,20 21:12 23:19 284:17 220:5,6,8
199:16 T 114:15 30:23 50:25 286:25 220:11
surprised table 161:21 135:16 53:1,6 288:10 307:3
279:17 tailor 174:22 192:18 127:24 290:16 testing 41:16
survey take 8:10,20 196:3 170:24 telling 20:2 153:8 156:2
207:22 8:23 9:19 200:13 171:1 79:14 156:9,10,13
208:19 29:9 30:10 212:4 218:2 192:17 108:19 157:13

612.338.3376
Page 345
233:10,23 159:5 129:24 220:16,20 286:18 44:2,20

270:25 162:16 130:2,24 221:16 289:7 46:21 49:10
271:1 187:3,18,25 132:3 222:22 third-party 50:6,11
text 26:10,11 206:14 133:15 224:10,11 157:13 51:17,20,21
26:13,14,16 211:15 134:17,19 226:20 thorough 60:8 64:10
26:17,21 213:25 134:21,24 228:2,10 286:14 66:12,12
27:10,10 218:15 135:20 229:14 287:1 67:8,8
thank 64:24 251:4,16 136:21 231:14 288:25 73:11 74:19
64:25 261:21 141:19 232:3 235:4 290:1 78:11 83:25
141:21 268:14 143:2,15,18 235:25 thought 84:3 86:8
172:19 275:4 144:25 238:7 35:21 75:6 88:9,18,23
184:9 185:3 277:13 145:20 239:14,14 85:6 107:25 88:25
200:9 248:9 282:1,2 146:2,3 244:9 113:25 102:11,18
250:22 289:24 148:18 247:13 118:13 102:24
279:5 296:23 158:3,5,14 252:16 129:25 103:13
304:24 think 9:20 160:16,21 253:14,25 139:18 104:24
306:16 11:19 13:8 161:18 255:23 141:13 114:7,7
thanks 13:9,9 16:6 162:10,12 256:7,10,12 148:17 129:5 131:5
299:24 18:14,17,19 162:20 256:15,21 174:5 132:11
theirs 73:4 29:17 35:10 163:11,11 257:9,15,17 239:15 133:6 135:5
224:11 38:22 39:3 163:22,22 258:16,25 279:15 135:10,13
theoretical 39:4,11,15 165:15 259:1 260:4 283:18 135:24
197:18 39:19 43:20 166:3,5,6 261:4 262:9 thoughts 164:2
theory 43:20 46:4 167:2,3,3,6 265:16,23 17:20 44:21 165:24
163:19,20 47:4 48:14 167:16,19 266:25 45:10 190:1 168:21
164:4,4,10 49:4,5,8 167:21,22 267:2,2 190:2 171:23
165:16 51:13,19 167:22 268:2 279:14 172:2
166:24 53:12,12,17 168:13,19 271:10 Thrashers 183:21
167:13 57:16 66:5 168:23 272:9 299:21 194:19
182:4,12 67:5 68:14 170:7,10,11 273:22 three 3:6,7 199:24
183:3,5 68:25 69:15 175:4,10 274:24 3:22 4:15 200:3,11
192:22 71:10 75:21 176:21,24 279:9,18 4:18 53:8 207:25,25
193:1,8,9 75:24 77:6 179:7 282:3,5,7 67:22 84:5 211:7
193:17 77:8,18 180:20,23 289:18 189:1 215:10
196:1,4,8 78:14 79:8 182:19 290:7,15 198:25 216:2,16
thereof 245:2 80:1,21,22 183:12 291:11 213:5 215:9 217:6,8
they'd 89:13 81:7 82:9 187:21 292:7 254:17,21 238:8,24,25
189:15,16 83:6 85:17 190:2,10,11 294:18 260:10 240:13
thing 73:16 90:12,21 191:21 295:6,9,10 286:20 243:24,24
166:15 91:19 92:24 192:8,12 295:10 287:12,18 249:5,6
174:7 93:2 95:7 194:12 296:3,11,17 287:22 254:6,9,18
200:12 95:13 97:2 195:7 296:20 288:2 289:9 264:16
208:17 97:3 100:2 199:14 302:15 292:24 283:1,1
237:6 101:6 201:3,7,7 thinking 47:2 294:6 297:9,15
241:15 103:17 201:15,16 225:22 thrown 112:3 300:17,22
243:14 104:19 203:2 253:23 167:18 300:24
278:6 106:19,24 204:19 262:12,18 Thursday 306:6,13
279:19 108:7,13,14 206:5,5 270:10 283:23 times 2:9
288:17 109:6,10,11 208:14 thinks 70:12 time 6:2 7:19 7:12 10:14
things 52:7,9 112:19 209:5,6 240:11 10:16,17 21:17 48:15
52:10 62:20 115:2 212:6,6 third 46:7,9 11:5,25 188:3 204:8
66:10 71:12 116:16 214:4,18 80:5,6 12:6,20 247:11
72:9 82:14 118:9,21 215:6 216:5 99:13 13:8 15:21 265:10
89:14,20 119:7 126:1 216:6,22 156:10 16:22 20:15 timing 216:19
109:3 126:2,5 217:24 241:2,3 25:1 36:11 title 57:16
114:12,14 128:9 218:2,4,11 261:22 37:22 38:4 117:7

612.338.3376
Page 346
140:13 192:19 30:23 95:15 96:13 107:22 UB 100:9

202:24 204:22 248:4,6,7 238:11 169:24 261:10
266:24 tolerates 297:22 261:12 173:5 209:2 unable 231:7
today 8:6 51:14 188:7 training treats 216:3 210:13,24 240:6
9:10,14,22 toll 44:22 298:23 231:17,18 211:17 unaccounted
9:25 18:14 Tom 223:6,7 transcribed trial 1:14 241:13 304:5
18:16 21:2 top 46:7,9 141:3 tried 218:8 Twice 10:15 unanimous
63:4 88:2 60:15 84:16 transcribes 225:1 two 3:9,19 175:11
90:13,18 93:18 97:24 68:10 255:12 4:7,9,20 224:10
91:8 103:3 108:2,4 transcript true 118:21 9:17 13:21 unattractive
137:11 185:22 306:13 195:17 14:12,15 187:8
157:14,20 216:10 307:3 231:17 42:4 53:7 uncertainty
162:12 233:22 transfer 262:17 84:24 97:20 304:18
166:19 261:22 147:17,22 263:2 307:2 111:14 uncle 13:1
185:7 186:1 270:13 147:25 trust 35:13 127:1 unconvinced
193:19 topic 159:23 149:2,6,19 58:4,6 64:6 141:19 186:1
208:5,8 topics 142:11 transmitted 65:3 181:15 147:23 Underneath
217:18 topnotch 301:17 trustworthy 150:15,16 216:14
240:6 272:17,20 transom 40:13 168:20 understand
245:18 272:23 273:16 truth 9:11 174:18 8:11,13,15
246:5 281:2 Toronto 4:8 transpired 54:22 185:12 8:18 9:1
today's 10:8 84:20 141:12 186:15 199:2 32:23 33:1
111:2,11 232:11,24 trauma 308:14,14 224:15 50:20,21
192:20 totally 111:21 245:22 308:15 226:10 54:19 60:5
told 31:18 236:17 252:4,14 try 9:4,7 238:15 64:16 73:16
65:17 80:6 touch 86:25 253:5 28:24 33:1 241:1 81:23 82:16
80:14 160:12 traumatic 34:3,3 253:11,23 82:16
105:14 282:16,21 104:6 144:1 56:14 82:4 253:25 105:10
107:17 touche 144:7,11 124:11 268:6 294:5 113:1
119:9,22,23 138:13 159:24 153:21 297:13 116:11,12
138:14 touched treat 120:25 165:9 two-minute 174:20
154:12 200:12 121:24 222:20 161:9,9 193:5,13,14
155:7 182:3 Tough 85:6 treated 12:2 246:2 277:9 two-thirds 200:8
199:10 tougher 34:8,17 trying 93:18 271:16 206:11,12
264:7 275:6 111:20 88:4 90:7 128:9,22 tying 257:12 230:6
275:11 112:10 90:19 91:6 129:24 type 20:11 231:20
302:5 track 19:15 91:13 94:15 184:11 22:4 23:19 235:25
tolerable 19:18,22 94:22 95:7 263:17 30:9 71:12 281:11,12
192:11 traded 85:5 95:16 96:3 TSN 107:18 85:17 291:12
tolerance tragedies 96:11 97:11 107:21 114:12,14 understand...
67:14 70:1 168:11,21 97:13,15 108:1 128:16 213:23,24
70:15 71:1 215:13 98:25 Tuesday 151:10 214:2 278:2
71:8 167:19 256:2 117:17 283:23 198:19 understands
198:23 257:13,17 118:16 Tufts 299:22 202:14 166:7
199:13,19 285:2,7 119:13 turn 46:2 255:18 212:13
tolerate 286:20 122:22 69:15 142:1 259:2 understood
51:19 287:13 192:4 142:25 types 86:18 8:17 30:11
203:14 289:10 231:24 146:23 136:17 71:3,4
204:7 290:3,10 238:3 150:21 147:23 138:20
tolerated tragedy treating 186:5 190:8 203:10 undertake
17:24 51:10 168:16 90:14,14 190:16 283:22 273:13
51:18 trainer 94:3 91:7 123:13 286:6 undisciplined
188:14,20 98:19 99:6 treatment turned 25:25 U 187:9
191:1,16,17 247:24 12:14 28:17 27:9 218:20 U 7:3 unilateral
191:23 299:22 29:2 33:23 turtle 111:15 U.S 2:15 6:24 80:23 219:5
192:1,10,14 trainers 40:3 92:13 TV 21:15 159:11 unilaterally

612.338.3376
Page 347
56:8 62:24 usually 81:22 283:23 211:18 111:24 Warner 25:1

162:16 90:5 159:4 veteran viewing wall 89:16 warning
219:12 207:17 135:22 46:18 47:11 want 15:24 123:14
275:24 289:6 veto 56:25 169:24 35:23 36:1 126:12
277:1 utilize 153:3 57:7 61:13 viewpoint 48:10 68:22 127:19
unintentio... 154:22 vibration 165:7 69:13 76:17 128:21
77:23 224:1 269:22 136:23 views 98:12 111:4,12 131:15
224:6,11 vice 57:17 101:19 113:1 116:4 304:21
228:20 V 117:5 198:2 106:4,7 135:16 warnings
229:4,13 valid 286:21 vicious 181:15 152:19 121:7 122:2
United 1:5 287:13 203:11 212:5,8 159:14,15 124:14
6:6 289:10 video 1:1 221:4 170:12 126:12
University value 233:19 3:17 171:4 223:25 171:16 128:18
100:7,10,16 values 184:24 171:7,10,16 234:21,21 180:8,14 131:11
203:5 259:8 valve 163:19 171:18,19 262:3 184:3,6 245:19
259:15,24 164:4,10 172:8,21,23 283:25 186:6,10,25 246:6
263:16 165:16 175:18 violence 200:13 247:16
264:13 166:24 177:8,15,16 185:23 205:18,19 251:10
267:10 167:13 video-reco... 186:13,22 205:20,22 276:5
272:16 182:4,12,22 6:2 189:22,25 211:23 wartime
university's 183:2,5 videographer 190:6 212:23 154:9
266:19 191:5 2:18 6:1 9:1 203:10 220:17 wasn't 13:7
unknown 192:21,25 83:24 84:2 Violent 223:3 233:8 70:19 75:21
303:14 193:8,16,21 135:9,12 202:25 235:18 77:13 120:5
unnecessary 195:25 171:23 visible 298:23 236:3,9,14 132:25,25
174:5,9 196:8 203:9 172:1 301:16,24 236:18 148:19
unproven varies 19:5 199:24 visits 210:14 251:2 154:22
304:1 variety 200:2 254:5 211:5 264:11 167:18
unquote 302:12,12 254:8 297:8 voice 218:23 276:11,11 181:18
186:3 various 297:14 218:23,24 278:15 218:9
225:20,21 103:22,22 306:6 263:22 286:6 291:1 241:25
unsafe 136:17 videotape volunteer 291:14,14 244:25
155:19,22 137:5 161:8 194:24 81:20 298:9 263:3 264:9
Untold 43:9 246:18 videotaping volunteering 304:24 waste 292:22
44:19 283:22 306:10 102:8 wanted 17:15 watch 23:10
untrustwor... 296:10,23 view 18:1 vote 59:25 67:14 80:20 78:16
41:12 Varying 38:16,16 129:2,3 107:22
update 105:25 76:21 77:12 W 139:8 180:6 108:1
243:17 Vascular 165:6,22,25 W 1:16 6:8 230:20 136:22
287:4 267:17,20 166:2 W-I-L-L-E-R 264:12,12 171:16
upset 138:11 269:5 174:24 259:11 269:20,22 207:9,15
upsetting veracity 184:11 W-I-N-N-E 273:15 281:6
73:25 274:20 187:23 239:16 wanting 283:15
URL 24:25 verbalizing 208:5 Wade 213:8 236:25 watched
use 25:4 239:14 222:15 216:22 wants 56:8 103:23
26:10 27:2 verbatim 224:7 221:16 108:5 208:6 241:13
100:17 308:8 231:21 254:14 212:15 watching
102:7,10 Verbeek 237:25 286:3 war 203:7 173:21
103:9 198:6,15 244:22 Wade's 222:4 Ward's 207:1,10
157:14 verbiage 256:13 waist 174:22 111:19,20 279:16
247:25 248:1 274:8 276:1 wait 139:7 112:10,12 way 8:2
249:19 verify 186:16 284:7 waited 94:2 warn 247:13 31:23 34:4
250:3 Verizon 26:24 viewed 47:20 waive 267:21 warned 123:3 49:8 56:15
261:11 versus 73:10 viewership Walker 124:5 63:8 67:2
304:3 157:19 209:2 111:18 126:23 72:4 80:5
useful 99:14 177:25 210:13,24 Walker's 127:13 101:7 109:4

612.338.3376
Page 348
116:18,18 weapons Willem 32:7 74:3,18 156:8,18 244:7

136:22 191:6 142:10 75:3 76:4,7 157:3 161:7 245:25
138:20,22 wear 71:13 299:22 77:4,18 161:18 246:3,11
162:12,16 104:2 156:3 Willer 259:10 78:7 79:1,8 162:6 163:7 247:22
163:9 177:3 294:7 260:7,15,21 79:19 83:10 164:13,25 248:11,18
181:9 wearing 261:20 86:13,23 165:7,13,20 251:14,23
193:10 104:15 262:1 87:10,18 167:2 168:9 251:25
194:14,14 225:21 Willer's 263:4 88:8,23 168:19 252:8 253:9
205:5 216:2 website wind 292:16 90:12 91:5 169:11,20 253:18,22
218:7,13 210:16 winding 91:19 92:3 170:10 255:1
220:7,25 211:5 266:3 92:10 93:6 175:23 256:10,12
226:21 week 10:13 Winne 239:16 94:19 95:2 176:20 256:19,21
228:6 279:20 239:19 95:5,10,24 177:2,16,19 257:25
231:18 weeks 9:17 winters 11:6 96:8,16 177:21 258:7,16,22
232:3 236:1 268:6 11:7 97:18 99:4 179:5,18 262:9
238:3 weight 228:1 wisdom 99:9,16 180:11,19 264:25
241:10 welcome 273:18 101:22 181:6,20,23 265:3 271:9
266:17 226:13 wise-ass 103:17 182:1,5,18 272:13
271:16 welfare 40:8 210:4 105:3,10 183:10,16 274:8,24
273:14 well-being wish 199:3 106:7,13,19 183:18,21 275:16,21
we'll 8:23 29:19 37:2 wishes 110:4,8,16 188:10,18 276:10,17
38:14 51:16 37:16 48:16 282:14 112:7 189:11,15 277:3,22
172:21 49:1 78:4 witness 2:11 113:12 190:11,13 278:1,14,17
183:15,17 well-establ... 2:16 5:2 114:21 192:8 193:5 278:19
222:25 203:9 10:5 17:4 116:1,5,9 193:13,25 280:6
we're 20:19 Wellington 17:19 18:4 116:12,16 194:3,22 290:24
37:1 77:24 11:1 18:10 19:2 118:4,8,13 195:7,15,17 291:11,17
78:1 91:7 went 8:5 26:4 19:5,13 118:17,20 196:12,18 292:4,25
103:10 28:1 65:22 20:2,6,25 118:23 196:25 293:7
118:19 94:5 95:7 21:8,17 119:17 197:6,10,18 295:22
130:10 98:20 99:7 24:18 27:15 120:2 121:4 200:22 296:3,9,20
132:3 99:10 29:4,17 121:13,21 201:3 204:3 298:4,8,11
134:23 106:25 30:8 31:1,6 122:7,17,25 205:4 207:1 298:13
135:15 113:25 32:23 33:9 123:8,17 208:24 302:9
159:16 116:5 33:20 34:12 124:10,20 209:5 211:9 WITNESSES
163:11,11 125:21 34:22,24 125:6,10,24 211:12 5:1
163:24 141:19 35:8 36:7 126:3,8,18 215:6 wondering
171:8 179:6 176:3 182:5 37:1 38:2,9 127:25 217:21,24 44:5 137:20
192:11 245:3 261:5 38:20,22 131:19 219:22 295:25
194:11 268:5 40:7 41:5 133:9,23 221:22 woozy 92:7
205:6,25 276:12 44:25 45:3 134:9 135:3 222:25 92:13
218:16,17 280:25 45:6,13,22 135:6 225:10 word 24:25
266:3 weren't 47:15,18 136:15 228:25 48:23 109:7
268:14 71:13 49:16,18 137:14,16 229:9 230:7 109:10
277:9 102:22 50:20 51:13 137:18 230:16 128:21
we've 46:17 120:4 242:6 55:14 56:12 142:23 231:4,14 234:10
47:11 96:20 244:14 56:21 57:5 143:23 232:2,8 words 8:8
114:7 302:16 57:12,19 144:4,15,19 234:11 73:12
127:25 whatsoever 58:13,19 144:25 236:2,9,12 129:13
139:19 8:21 148:3 61:2,24 145:2,5,7 236:22,23 174:25
142:16 Whereabouts 63:7,10,19 145:16 237:18 227:9
195:22 100:6 66:5,8 67:5 146:2 238:7 277:17
216:15 whiplash 67:18 70:19 148:14,17 240:21 278:13
218:8,10 262:25 70:25 72:8 149:11 241:25 299:10
wealth wholeheart... 72:19 73:2 154:12,21 242:3,9,12 wore 103:25
166:21 222:23 73:24,25 155:22,25 243:6,22 work 69:21

612.338.3376
Page 349
69:23 81:8 149:11,11 158:17 years 7:20 zero 67:14 1300 7:3
103:7 155:13 162:24 9:16 10:24 70:1,15 1319 200:3
153:18 180:8,14 165:7 168:1 12:1,1 71:1,8 139 3:13
164:1,3 199:8 170:1 13:14 20:18 190:18,24 13th 189:23
185:2 217:5 204:13 172:14 20:19,20,21 Ziegler 125:1 260:14
282:11,22 216:17 173:8,9 36:11,13,17 125:18 14 3:18
305:1 255:19 175:16 41:7 51:17 126:3,10 185:10,15
worked 60:6 292:12 177:10 51:20,21 204:18 198:25
107:17 Wow 100:19 191:18 58:3 83:19 Zimmer 210:9,11,12
117:1 305:6 write 190:5 193:18 93:3 97:8 68:21 14-2551 6:5
working 14:2 289:6 199:17,22 99:21 Zimmerman 14-2551(S...
32:12 41:19 writing 204:14 123:10,11 68:21,21 1:8
46:16 75:16 202:15 210:25 128:8 1425 254:6
81:10 82:1 308:10 211:9 129:20 0 143 84:20
82:8,19,21 writings 217:13 133:18 07 24:4 1433 254:9
82:22,25 185:4 221:22 164:5,5,8 149 3:14
83:13 written 272:6 226:16 165:4,21 1 14th 119:5
142:10 wrong 48:20 232:18 166:9 171:2 1 3:3 41:23 140:3
151:24 165:8 238:20 178:13 42:2 15 3:20
153:8,20 182:15 241:11 184:18 10 1:18 3:13 188:24
154:2 256:23 247:2 186:16,18 139:2,6 189:19
233:13 289:21 249:14 186:20 140:1 307:4 1528 297:9
293:21 wrote 119:17 251:8 252:7 198:25 10:04 83:25 1535 297:15
294:14 167:3 252:12,23 200:17 10:21 84:3 1545 306:7
works 60:6 256:11,20 204:13 10036 2:10 158 3:16
103:6 X 258:25 207:11 10104-3300 16 3:23
105:22 260:24 212:12 2:14 197:21
158:13 Y 263:1,5,17 217:18 107 3:10 198:1
282:24 Y 7:3 268:8 269:8 265:3,3 11 3:14 17 4:3 201:18
world 192:20 yeah 31:1 270:5,5,6 274:3 149:23 201:21
268:16 39:9 42:13 270:12,16 280:15 150:1,4 171 3:17
269:1,4 42:21 43:5 270:16 294:13 11-year-old 18 3:20 4:4
worn 103:1 46:6,10 272:13 yes-or-no 138:7 13:19,20
103:13 50:9 58:5 277:8 90:23,24 11:14 135:10 58:3 188:24
104:23,25 66:18 68:8 280:14,18 yesterday 11:15 135:6 209:8,11,12
136:11 69:6,6,19 284:4 91:15 130:1 11:27 135:13 185 3:18
137:21 80:18 93:17 289:25 130:1 110 3:11 188 3:20
138:3,4,15 93:19 94:10 293:7,15,18 yesteryear 1120 1:17 18th 189:20
155:15,19 100:4,11,15 294:4 111:3,11 118 3:12 19 4:6 94:15
156:15 100:20 298:12 113:7 12 3:13,16 210:12
worried 102:13,25 300:6 York 1:18 139:3 142:1 212:19,20
168:3 109:12,17 year 11:3 2:10,10,14 158:23 212:24
Worst 139:19 118:4,13 19:10,24 2:14 7:4 159:8 1946 204:12
worth 301:1 125:12 21:18 85:5 14:7 308:1 12:07 171:24 197 3:23
worthwhile 128:5,11 102:21 308:6 12:09 172:2 1970s 94:15
134:21 129:23 111:21 young 42:4,8 12:28 160:9 105:7,14
273:24 130:5,14 126:5 133:14 12:43 199:25 108:7
wouldn't 137:17 128:13,13 189:8 200:1 1974 3:19
29:22 30:4 139:10 130:4,17 youth 71:10 120 2:3 185:10,18
44:22,25 143:11 136:1 160:1 1290 2:13 187:17
74:23 76:10 146:2 139:17 YouTube 12th 107:11 1975 14:20
76:17 80:23 147:11 187:24 172:9 140:3 17:10,22
96:16 112:8 150:13,15 196:21 Yup 49:22 13 3:17 171:5 24:1 33:25
116:3 151:11,13 247:11 57:22 58:8 171:7,9 34:7,19
129:18 152:21 268:22 178:12 53:11 87:25
138:11,12 156:21 273:7 282:8 Z 194:24 89:3 90:20

612.338.3376
Page 350
91:14,22,24 280:11 246 4:10 3rd 202:14 7

92:13,20 2006 71:16 248 4:12 255:7 7 3:10 5:3
120:6,16 79:15 119:5 24th 233:3 107:7,10
121:7 2007 233:3 297:20 4 278:19
123:10 2008 4:20 25 4:14 4 3:7 84:5,10 7:38 224:25
124:1 260:14 139:24 40 10:24 70s 15:10,15
127:18 297:12,21 255:3,6,6 20:19,20 50:6,11
191:20 2009 68:2 255 4:14 36:11,13,17 89:24 90:9
192:5 69:11 70:15 26 3:23 4:15 41:7 51:17 92:5 93:25
202:14 71:25 42:5 197:21 51:20,21 96:4,11
203:24 107:11 198:4 164:5 108:7,21
1977 3:21 110:22,23 260:10,13 186:18 109:25
188:24 110:24 260 4:15 200:17 113:18
189:20 209:14 266 4:16 274:3 117:12,15
191:14 211:11,12 26th 160:9 40s 88:24 125:21
1979 102:20 293:14 27 4:16 266:1 41 3:3 22:24 735-3000
103:2 201 4:3 266:4 23:1 2:10
104:15 2010 65:24 27th 185:24 4470 43:13 75 9:16 16:1
135:19 2011 33:6 28 4:17 48 65:12,18 102:9
137:10 42:5 43:4 284:11,13 65:21 67:15 120:25
1980 121:15 98:16 284:13 240:4,17 750-3000 2:5
121:16,23 159:12 284 4:17 79 104:19
122:1 213:2 28th 98:16 5 138:15
1991 3:23 224:24 150:6 5 3:8 93:9,12 7th 84:12
197:21 242:18 29 3:18 4:18 282:7 110:23,24
198:4 243:2 162:19 50 211:2,4,6
1995 122:20 254:18 185:10 211:8 8
123:2,10 255:7 219:6 50,000 230:1 8 3:11 110:13
1997 35:5 285:21 292:24,25 500 2:4 110:19
101:17 2012 33:17 293:2,3,12 50s 88:24,24 8:37 110:23
124:4,14 140:3,12 292 4:18 541-1137 8:43 1:19
1st 285:6,21 141:18 297 4:19 5:4 2:14 8:45 6:2
150:6 151:2 29th 185:18 561 2:5 80 218:11
2 154:14 2nd 68:2 57 13:14 46:4 80s 105:7,14
2 3:4 58:21 302:20 213:2 58 3:4 108:7,21
58:24,25 2013 84:12 59 211:10 109:25
64:8 69:16 2015 1:18 3 5th 159:12 113:18
142:3,5 138:15 3 3:5 67:21 117:12,15
186:5 190:9 307:4 67:25 69:16 6 82 22:22
190:17 209 4:4 80:24 142:1 6 3:9 97:20 84 3:7
20 4:5,7 21 4:8 232:11 142:25 97:23
52:14 73:13 232:23 146:24 110:22 9
83:19 99:21 212 2:10,14 271:18 131:2,3
123:10,11 4:6 3:46 306:17 150:21,22
133:17 22 4:9 238:15 30 4:19 11:13 150:23
183:20 238:18 43:3 133:17 152:15
209:9 224 4:7 162:19 209:13
210:11 23 4:10 204:13 211:11
224:15,17 246:22,25 226:9,12,13 60 226:10
224:19 232 4:8 297:12,20 60s 50:6
200 218:10 238 4:9 306 307:2 61 101:14
2000 189:14 24 4:12,20 30th 43:4 630 297:23
2001 101:14 248:23 224:24 298:4
101:14 249:2 293:14 632 297:23
285:6 297:12 33432 2:4 650 186:19
2005 131:2,3 301:7 34A 198:21 67 3:5

612.338.3376

2015-09-10 - (Jacobs, Jeremy) Final REDACTED - Condensed

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

You might also like

2015-09-10 - (Jacobs, Jeremy) Final REDACTED - Condensed

Uploaded by

Document Information

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

2015-09-10 - (Jacobs, Jeremy) Final REDACTED - Condensed

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order - Deposition of Jeremy Jacobs - 9/10/2015

In Re: National Hockey League Players' Concussion Injury Litigation

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

2 answer. 2 MR. GOLDFEIN: Object to the form of the

3 THE WITNESS: Since it was played 3 question.

5 they don't -- it could be quite meaningless. 5 MR. GOLDFEIN: Which game?

6 BY MR. DAVIDSON: 6 MR. DAVIDSON: The game of hockey.

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 98 Page 100

Page 99 Page 101

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 102 Page 104

Page 103 Page 105

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 106 Page 108

Page 107 Page 109

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 110 Page 112

Page 111 Page 113

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 114 Page 116

Page 115 Page 117

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 118 Page 120

Page 119 Page 121

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 122 Page 124

Page 123 Page 125

Benchmark Reporting Agency

Page 126 Page 128

2 '92 I think he may have started. 2

3 THE WITNESS: '92, so Ziegler was in, and 3

4 then what's his name from Philly was there for a 4

5 year and a half or so. I can't think of the guy's 5

6 name right now but -- 6

7 MR. GOLDFEIN: Gil Stein. 7