2015-09-10 - (Gainey, Bob) Final REDACTED - Condensed

Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order - Deposition of Robert (Bob) Gainey - 9/10/2015
In Re: National Hockey League Players' Concussion Injury Litigation
Page 1
1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
2 DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA
3
4 IN RE: NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE PLAYERS'
5 CONCUSSION INJURY LITIGATION
6 MDL No. 14-2551 (SRN/JSM)
7
8 CONFIDENTIAL - PURSUANT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
9
10 Videotaped deposition of ROBERT (BOB) GAINEY
11 taken before a court reporter at the offices of Skadden,
12 Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, 222 Bay St., Suite 1750,
13 Toronto, Ontario on 10th of September, 2015, at 9:00 a.m.
14
15 Reported by: Terry Wood, CSR (Ont.), RPR
16 Videographer: James Neeson
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Benchmark Reporting Agency

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1 A P P E A R A N C E S: 1 INDEX OF WITNESSES
2 ATTORNEYS FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: 2 Page
3 Thomas J. Byrne, Esq. 3 WITNESS: ROBERT (BOB) GAINEY
4 NAMANNY, BYRNE & OWENS 4 ROBERT (BOB) GAINEY
5 2 South Pointe, Suite 245 5 Examination by Mr. Byrne 9
6 Lake Forest, CA 92630 6
7 Phone: 949-452-0700 7
8 E-mail: tbyrne@nbolaw.com 8
9 9
10 Michael R. Cashman, Esq. 10
11 ZELLE HOFMANN VOELBEL & MASON LLP 11
12 500 Washington Avenue South, Su te 4000 12
13 Minneapolis, MN 55415-1152 13
14 Phone: 612-339-2020 14
15 E-mail: mcashman@zelle.com 15
16 16
17 ATTORNEYS FOR THE DEFENDANT US CLUBS AND MR. GAINEY: 17
18 Christopher Schm dt, Esq. 18
19 & Jonathan Potts, Esq. 19
20 BRYAN CAVE LLP 20
21 One Metropolitan Square 21
22 211 North Broadway, Su te 3600 22
23 St. Louis, MO 63102-2750 23
24 Phone: 314-259-2616 24
25 E-mail: cjschmidt@bryancave.com 25
Page 3 Page 5
1 1 LIST OF EXHIBITS
2 ATTORNEY FOR THE NFL: 2 EXHIBIT NO./DESCRIPTION Page
3 Adam M. Lupion, Esq. 3 1 Document Bates labeled NHL0208530 to 0208532 110
4 PROSKAUER ROSE LLP 4 2 Letter Bates labeled NHL0128065 - 0128067 113
5 Eleven Times Square 5 3 Letter Bates labeled NHL0011457 118
6 New York, NY 10036-8299 6 4 Fax memorandum Bates labeled NHL012334 - 119
7 Phone: 212-969-3358 7 012340
8 E-mail: alupion@proskauer.com 8 5 Document Bates labeled NHL0015999 - 0016001 124
9 9 6 NHL Injury Surveillance System Summary 128
10 10 Report, '95-'96 season
11 11 7 Document Bates labeled NHL0218166 to 0218172 131
12 12 8 Minutes of GM Meeting, June 16, 1998 Bates 135
13 13 labeled NHL0219196 to 0219206
14 14 9 Memorandum Bates labeled NHL0224686 to 142
15 15 0224702
16 16 10 Memorandum Sept. 17, 2001, Bates labeled 151
17 17 NHL0579440 to 0579441
18 18 11 NHL Injury Summary 2001-2002, Bates labeled 154

19 19 NHL0221484 to 0221508
20 20 12 NHL Concussion Analysis Preliminary Report 161
21 21 Bates labeled NHL0231693 to 0231703
22 22 13 Memorandum Bates labeled NHL0117757 to 165
23 23 0117758
24 24 14 Fax Bates labeled NHL 1353432 to 1353444 170
25 25

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1 15 E-mail and attachment Bates labeled 177 1 --- Upon commencing at 9:05 a.m.
2 NHL0442079 to 0442081 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the
3 16 E-mail Bates labeled NHL0026287 to 0026288 180 3 videotaped deposition of Bob Gainey taken by Thomas
4 17 E-mail Bates labeled NHL0092172 to 0092173 183 4 Byrne of the law firm Namanny, Byrne & Owens in re
5 18 E-mail Bates labeled NHL0069865 to 0069866 186 5 the National Hockey League Players' Concussion
6 19 E-mail Bates labeled NHL0026146 to 191 6 Injury litigation. Case number is 14-255 --
7 20 E-mail Bates labeled NHL0130619 to 0130620 197 7 sorry -- 14-2551 (SRN/JSM) filed in the Federal
8 21 E-mail Bates labeled NHL0029537 to 0029538 202 8 District Court in Minnesota.
9 22 E-mail Bates labeled NHL0029638 205 9 This deposition is being held at
10 23 General Notes Bates labeled NHL0232747 to 208 10 Skadden, Arps, 222 Bay Street, Suite 1750, Toronto,
11 0232761 11 Ontario, Canada, on September 10th, 2015.
12 24 Minutes June 15, 2007, Bates labeled 216 12 The court reporter today is Terry Wood,
13 NHL0513877 to 0513913 13 CSR, and I am James Neeson, CLVS, the videographer.
14 25 E-mail chain Bates labeled NHL0128996 to 224 14 We are both from the firm Benchmark Reporting in
15 0128998 15 Minneapolis, Minnesota.
16 26 E-mail Bates labeled NHL0031371 228 16 We are going on the record at 9:06 a.m.
17 27 Agenda June 2, 2009, Bates labeled NHL0215077 231 17 Counsel, may you please state your names
18 to 0215079 18 for the record.
19 28 Minutes, June 25, 2009 Bates labeled 236 19 MR. SCHMIDT: Chris Schmidt on behalf of
20 NHL0581018 to 0581037 20 Bob Gainey and the non-party U.S. clubs.
21 29 E-mail Bates labeled NHL0025789 to 0025791 250 21 MR. POTTS: Jonathan Potts of behalf of
22 30 Package of articles Bates labeled NHL0141929 255 22 Bob Gainey and the non-party U.S. clubs.
23 to 0141980 23 MR. LUPION: Adam Lupion from the law
24 31 "Systemat c Analysis of NHL Concussions" 258 24 firm Proskauer Rose on behalf of the National Hockey
25 Bates labeled NHL0027430 to 0027477 25 League.
Page 7 Page 9
1 32 E-mail Bates labeled NHL0254638 to 0254640 262 1 MR. BYRNE: Thomas J. Byrne, Namanny,
2 33 Interview Bates labeled NHL0141146 to 0141151 266 2 Byrne & Owens, for the plaintiffs.
3 34 E-mail Bates labeled NHL0053025 to 0053027 271 3 MR. CASHMAN: Michael R. Cashman from
4 35 E-mail Bates labeled NHL0033467 to 0033468 274 4 the Zelle Hofmann firm in Minneapolis, Minnesota,
5 36 "Concuss ons in the Nat onal Hockey League," 275 5 for the plaintiffs.
6 Bates labeled NHL0115694 to 0115720 6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the reporter
7 37 E-mail Bates labeled NHL0094230 to 0094232 278 7 please affirm the witness.
8 8 ROBERT (BOB) GAINEY, AFFIRMED:
9 9 EXAMINATION BY MR. BYRNE:
10 10 Q. Mr. Gainey, please state your full
11 11 name for the record.
12 12 A. Robert Michael Gainey.
13 13 Q. Mr. Gainey, I got your permission
14 14 to call you "Bob" throughout the day?
15 15 A. Yes.
16 16 Q. Did you have the opportunity to
17 17 discuss the deposition proceedings with your
18 18 attorneys prior to today?
19 19 A. Yes.
20 20 Q. And did you speak with Mr. Schmidt?
21 21 A. I did.
22 22 Q. Mr. Potts?
23 23 A. Yes.
24 24 Q. And Mr. Lupion?
25 25 A. No.

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1 Q. Any other attorneys besides 1 career for the Canadiens?
2 Mr. Schmidt and Mr. Potts? 2 A. Yes.

3 A. No. 3 Q. And that was from 1973-'74 season
4 Q. Did you have any discussion about 4 through the '88-'89 season?
5 today's deposition with anybody other than 5 A. Yes.
6 Mr. Schmidt and Mr. Potts? 6 Q. Prior to your starting your career
7 A. No, I have not. 7 w th the Canadiens, d d you take a pre-season
8 Q. And have you had your deposition 8 physical?
9 taken before? 9 A. Yes.
10 A. I have not. 10 Q. And what did that physical
11 Q. As I'm sure Mr. Schmidt and 11 examination entail?
12 Mr. Potts have informed you about the ground rules 12 A. My recollection is that it would be
13 for the deposition, I'm going to go through them one 13 a general medical questionnaire with questions about
14 more time so the record reflects your understanding. 14 previous injuries, maybe illnesses, allergies, and
15 I'm going to ask you a series of 15 there may have been some physical testing, such as
16 questions and I would like for you to give your best 16 riding a bike, testing your heart rate, or just a --
17 response to my question. If you don't hear it, ask 17 a general -- a general physical to see if you were
18 me to repeat it; if you don't understand it, ask me 18 fit and there was anything that needed to be brought
19 to rephrase it. If you do answer my question, it's 19 to the surface before training began.
20 going to be understood by anybody who reads the 20 Q. Okay. And you did bring up
21 transcripts or views this video that you understood 21 something about your recollect on, and I failed to
22 my question and that you provided your best answer. 22 ask you this before I started the questioning.
23 Do you understand that? 23 Have you taken any drugs or alcohol or
24 A. Yes. 24 any med cat on in the last twelve hours that you
25 Q. Okay. Did you review any materials 25 think would impair your ability to give your best
Page 11 Page 13
1 prior to the deposition today other than the 94 1 testimony today?
2 exhibits that we provided to Mr. Schmidt? 2 A. No.
3 A. I reviewed certain materials. 3 Q. Is there any reason that you feel
4 Whether they were part of the 94 or not, I'm not 4 that you cannot give your best testimony today?
5 certain. 5 A. No.
6 Q. Did you review any other deposition 6 Q. Okay. During that pre-season
7 transcripts from any other deponent in this case? 7 physical at the start of your career, do you recall
8 A. No. 8 being examined by an orthopaedist?
9 Q. Okay. If you need to take a break, 9 A. No.
10 just let me know. It's not an endurance test to sit 10 Q. Do you recall being examined by a
11 here and put you -- sitting for hours, so if you 11 neurologist?
12 need to use the restroom or you need to get up and 12 A. No.
13 stretch, please let us know; we can take a brief 13 Q. Do you recall if anyone took blood
14 recess. 14 from you and sent it to a lab or have an internist
15 A. Okay. Thank you. 15 review any blood workup?
16 Q. Do you have any questions before we 16 MR. SCHMIDT: I just want to put an
17 start? 17 objection on the record.
18 A. I think I am as clear as I can be. 18 To the extent you are asking him to
19 Q. Very good. 19 disclose any private health information about tests
20 You were drafted in the NHL in 1973? 20 or analyses, you know, let some general -- sort of
21 A. Yes. 21 general questions continue as to foundation, but I
22 Q. And that was by the Montreal 22 would remind the witness that this witness is not
23 Canadiens? 23 waiving his medical rights and his medical
24 A. Yes. 24 privileges here in the deposition and so not to
25 Q. And you've played your entire 25 disclose anything a doctor told you or any private

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1 medical information in your possession, but as to 1 examine you the same way they did at the start of
2 these general questions, you may proceed. 2 the season?
3 MR. LUPION: And I think this is also a 3 A. I understand your question and the
4 good time to note that if one party objects, that it 4 term, because I know it's common -- it was common in
5 will be deemed to apply to both the club and the 5 the other parts of my working career in the NHL, but
6 NHL. 6 whether it applied to me or not, I don't recall
7 MR. BYRNE: Why don't we just continue 7 whether it was in place in the late '80s.
8 with our agreement, fellows, that any objection will 8 Q. Okay. So we pretty much covered,
9 be to the PTO, objection to form. 9 then, what would happen to you in terms of
10 MR. SCHMIDT: Sure. 10 examinat ons throughout your career in the early
11 MR. LUPION: Sure. 11 '70s, '73 through '89; would that be accurate?
12 MR. BYRNE: And one person, like you 12 A. Yes.
13 said, can object, and that will be on the record for 13 Q. For pre-season, end of season?
14 everybody. 14 A. Uhm-hmm.
15 MR. SCHMIDT: That would be great. 15 Q. Is that a yes?
16 BY MR. BYRNE: 16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And just to clarify, my question 17 Q. Okay. While you were playing w th
18 was only if he had drug -- 18 the Canadiens -- and I'm going to talk about your
19 MR. LUPION: And before you proceed, I 19 entire career -- did you ever get h t in the head?
20 think we're going to -- and this is a good 20 A. Yes.
21 opportunity to note that we are going to designate 21 Q. Would t be fair to say you got hit
22 the entirety of the transcript as confidential, as 22 in the head at some point in each game?
23 we have done in prior depositions, and then work to 23 A. No.
24 de-designate those portions that are not subject 24 Q. There was games you believe that
25 to -- 25 you played where you didn't have a hit to the head?
Page 15 Page 17
1 MR. BYRNE: We are not going to agree to 1 A. Yes.
2 that, but we can fight about that later. 2 Q. Your head wouldn't have hit the
3 MR. SCHMIDT: Okay. 3 board, the ice, another player?
4 MR. BYRNE: Okay? 4 A. Yes.
5 MR. SCHMIDT: Fair enough. 5 Q. Okay. Would that be common or
6 BY MR. BYRNE: 6 uncommon?
7 Q. So my question, Bob, was do you 7 A. It would be -- it would be common,
8 recall if anybody took blood from you and did a 8 I would say. It would be -- it wasn't -- it wasn't
9 blood workup? 9 common that I would leave the game -- leave a game
10 MR. SCHMIDT: As part of the pre-season 10 and -- having had my head hit. That would not be
11 physical? 11 common.
12 THE DEPONENT: I do not. 12 Q. Okay. So if you were -- had
13 BY MR. BYRNE: 13 played -- you played forward, correct?
14 Q. Okay. And each year that you 14 A. Yes.
15 played with the Canadiens, did you go through with 15 Q. So if you were in the corners of
16 a -- a pre -- an annual pre-season physical, as we 16 the board going for a puck and the player, you know,
17 just described? 17 slammed up behind you, your head would hit the
18 A. Yes. 18 board, would that -- would you count that as a head
19 Q. And did you go through an exit 19 hit in terms of my question?
20 physical? 20 A. If that happened, yes.
21 A. I -- perhaps later, near the end of 21
22 my playing career, perhaps. 22
23 Q. When I say "exit physical," just so 23
24 it's clear, I mean at the end of the season, would 24
25 you meet with the trainer or a doctor and they would 25

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1 1 THE DEPONENT: I think each case was
2 2 individual and that I can answer in my own
3 3 circumstances, which I -- I have, that when you felt
4 4 clear and capable of carrying out your
5 5 responsibilities or duties well and safely, then you
6 6 were returned to play.
7 7 BY MR. BYRNE:
8 8 Q. Were you ever given smelling salts?
9 9 A. I was never given them, but that
10 10 was something that was around all the time and used,
11 Q. And d d you continue to play after 11 not only sometimes just to wake you up before the
12 you came off your shift with those feelings? 12 game. So smelling salts were around, but I don't
13 A. I would continue to play when I 13 recall someone having to give me smelling salts to
14 felt like I was clear and comfortable in my 14 revive me or bring me back to -- to consciousness
15 surroundings. 15 or ...
16 Q. Would you ever tell anybody how you 16 Q. Were you ever given smelling salts
17 felt, on the bench? 17 just to clear the cobwebs, if you understand my
18 A. Yes, I think it was common to -- 18 question?
19 for the team trainers to be watching the game, 19 A. Yeah. No, it was -- my
20 picking up information, and anybody who would suffer 20 recollection of the -- the smelling salts, the
21 or have -- make any kind of body language, a puck 21 little tabs that used to be popped open, ammonia, I
22 hitting them in the foot, something banged against 22 think, they were there maybe for different reasons,
23 their head, that the normal protocol was that they 23 but my purpose was it was almost like taking a spicy
24 would be checked on when they came back to the 24 piece of candy or something that would shock your
25 players' bench. 25 senses a little bit.
Page 19 Page 21
1 Q. What would they do? 1 Q. While you were playing with the
2 A. They would ask you what happened, 2 Canadiens -- and, again, we're only talking about
3 where is it, how does it feel, just go through a 3 your career from '73 to the end of the -- to the '89
4 list of questions to determine if you were okay. 4 season -- were you aware of any NHL rules or
5 5 policies governing return to play if a player was
6 6 injured?
7 7 A. No, I'm not.
8 8 Q. Okay. So in those seventeen -- was
9 9 it seventeen years, Bob, your career?
10 10 A. I believe it's sixteen.
11 Q. While you were playing w th the 11 Q. Sixteen years. You never were told
12 Canadiens and you were on the bench, observe some of 12 or aware of an NHL policy on return to play for any
13 your teammates, do you know if any of your 13 type of injury?
14 teammates, without naming their names, were on the 14 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
15 bench and were diagnosed with a concussion? 15 question.
16 A. I do not recall. 16 THE DEPONENT: I am -- I'm not aware of
17 Q. It is possible, or you just -- 17 any policy.
18 A. I really -- I don't recall an 18 BY MR. BYRNE:
19 instance when a -- when a player was diagnosed with 19 Q. Okay. Would somebody with the
20 a concussion. 20 Canadiens or the NHL talk to you before the season
21 Q. Okay. In the era that you played, 21 start about injuries at all?
22 Bob, from '73 to '88, '89, was it common for players 22 A. No.
23 to play when they got their bell rung or dinged? 23 Q. All right. Were you aware of any
24 MR. LUPION: Object to form. 24 players who ever -- without -- again, without naming
25 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. 25 names, just players who complained about return to

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1 play if they felt that they weren't able to but they 1 feel? Do you think you're capable of playing? And
2 were told to get back in or do a shift? Did you 2 then there would be an agreement that -- that you
3 ever encounter that during your career with the 3 were ready and fit to play and would be returned to
4 Canadiens? 4 active -- on an active roster.
5 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. 5 Q. Okay. Now, you played in -- I hope
6 THE DEPONENT: Not to my recollection. 6 I have this figure correct -- about 1160 games, so
7 BY MR. BYRNE: 7 you played in a lot of NHL games; is that correct?
8 Q. Were you aware of any NHL policies 8 A. Correct.
9 or procedures to ensure that players who had 9 Q. And in that time that you played,
10 suffered hits to the head received an evaluation 10 you had twelve fights; is that accurate?
11 prior to returning to play? 11 A. Twelve is an estimate that I made,
12 A. I'm not aware. 12 yes.
13 13 Q. Okay. Now, what would happen in
14 14 these fights that you had, these twelve fights? Can
15 15 you just briefly describe how the fight -- one of
16 16 the fights occurred. Just give me an example.
17 17 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
18 18 MR. LUPION: Object --
19 19 THE DEPONENT: Well, fights, in my
20 20 recollection, happened, at least from my -- from my
21 21 pos tion in the -- in the two people, in a more
22 22 spontaneous way: That there may have been
23 23 collisions w th a certain player or multiple
24 24 collisions, and t was not uncommon that you would
25 25 play regularly against the same player throughout
Page 23 Page 25
1 1 the game, and as you -- you competed for space and
2 2 time, at some point, these did break out into
3 3 fisticuffs or a fight.
4 4 BY MR. BYRNE:
5 Q. Did you ever miss a game due to a 5 Q. And when you were involved in the
6 concuss on or a head injury? 6 fight, what was your intent?
7 A. No. 7 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
8 Q. Okay. When you did miss games, was 8 THE DEPONENT: Normally, my intent was
9 there a protocol in place where you would be seen by 9 to protect myself, because with twelve fights in
10 a team trainer or doctor pr or to being released to 10 1200 games, you're not -- you're not very adequate
11 play? 11 at -- at that act, and so, really, from my
12 A. Yes. 12 recollect on, t would be simply to protect myself,
13 Q. And what d d that entail? 13 not embarrass myself, and get out the other side.
14 A. Well, "protocol," if it's the right 14 BY MR. BYRNE:
15 word, but there was a -- a format of going through 15 Q. Would you throw punches?
16 the injury, having a recovery time, approximate 16 A. If possible, yes.
17 recovery time, placed on it, physiotherapy 17 Q. Did you throw punches?
18 recommended, training put in place, and as that 18 A. Yes.
19 timeline diminished or evaporated and the return to 19 Q. And where did you aim your punches?
20 play date -- the potential return to play date 20 A. Usually for the -- the head or face
21 became closer, then there would be discussions with 21 of the opponent.
22 the doctor, with the trainer about how you feel and 22 Q. And why would you aim punches to
23 how your training was. If you were back on the ice 23 the head or face?
24 skating to that sort of critical point at the end 24 A. Well, it was the most vulnerable
25 when it looks like everything is okay: How do you 25 area, and when I -- it was the most vulnerable area,

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1 the most unprotected area, and ... 1 neurodegenerative injury?
2 Q. And d d you throw the punch as hard 2 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
3 as you can with all the force you could? 3 MR. LUPION: Object to form.
4 MR. LUPION: Objection. 4 MR. BYRNE: Stereo.
5 THE DEPONENT: I would -- I would 5 THE DEPONENT: I was never -- I was
6 estimate that when you're in a fight and you're 6 never informed and -- that hits to the head were
7 enraged and your emotions have tipped over, and that 7 part of -- part of playing in a robust sport, and I
8 whatever I did, I did with my full force. 8 think having scratches, bruises around your face,
9 BY MR. BYRNE: 9 and it was a common part of participating in -- in
10 Q. Okay. Would t be your intent to 10 ice hockey, whether in the NHL or previously.
11 hit the other player as hard as you could in hopes 11 BY MR. BYRNE:
12 to knock him down? 12 Q. My question isn't geared towards
13 A. Well, I don't think it was a -- 13 scratches or bruises, but I appreciate that being
14 there was a conscious assessment of what I should or 14 included in your response. My question is more
15 shouldn't do; it was simply a combination of 15 towards hit to the head through someone being --
16 aggression and protection until someone could get 16 punching you as hard as they can in the face or you
17 there and get me out of that situation. 17 being hit in the boards where you hit your head
18 Q. Do you recall in any of the fights 18 against the glass or ice, or another player hits you
19 you were in, Bob, where you had knocked another 19 with a head shot. That was more the -- I was
20 player unconscious? 20 interested in the answers to that. Nobody told you
21 A. No. 21 sustaining that type of trauma could lead to
22 Q. Do you recall being in a fight, 22 long-term neurodegenerative disease?
23 Bob, where you knocked another player and he fell to 23 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. There was
24 the ce? 24 a long statement by counsel and then a question I
25 A. No. 25 think embedded at the end. If you understood the
Page 27 Page 29
1 Q. Okay. We talked a little bit about 1 quest on, you can answer. I'd also object as asked
2 our strength -- let me go back to the fighting. 2 and answered.
3 Bob, were you -- did you take hits to the face in 3 THE DEPONENT: I have no knowledge of
4 the fights? 4 long-term -- whatever the terminology was in your
5 A. Probably, yes. 5 quest on.
6 Q. And you took hits to the head as 6 BY MR. BYRNE:
7 well? 7 Q. Bob, in your opin on, would you
8 A. Probably, yeah. 8 consider t a broken promise to you as a player if
9 Q. And some of these fights occurred 9 you were not informed of that possible consequence
10 before you wore a helmet? 10 to head trauma?
11 A. Yes. 11 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
12 Q. And did some of these fights take 12 THE DEPONENT: No, I would not.
13 place after you put on a helmet? 13 BY MR. BYRNE:
14 A. Yes. 14 Q. Why is that?
15 Q. Okay. Bob, did anybody ever hit 15 A. The -- I think the obligation of
16 you hard enough where you were dazed in one of your 16 the people that I worked for was to -- was to warn
17 fights? 17 me about things they knew about, not about things
18 A. No. 18 they didn't know about or things that might happen.
19 Q. Did anybody hit you hard enough 19 Q. How do you know they d dn't know
20 where you were knocked to the ground? 20 about it?
21 A. No. 21 MR. LUPION: Object on.
22 Q. Did anybody with the NHL ever 22 THE DEPONENT: Well, I was warned about
23 told (sic) you that being involved in fights and 23 things that -- and given tools of how to protect
24 getting hit in the head or the face or just taking 24 myself and be safe, whether it was equipment or
25 head shots in general could lead towards long-term 25 style of play or recognition of situat ons on the

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1 ice, and I felt comfortable that I was being given 1 Again, without having to answer what disease, just
2 the information that I needed. 2 have you ever been diagnosed?
3 BY MR. BYRNE: 3 A. I prefer not to answer that
4 Q. What warnings -- you just gave an 4 question.
5 answer that you were given some warnings. What 5 Q. Okay. Have you ever undergone any
6 warnings were you given? 6 testing for any long-term neurodegenerative disease?
7 A. Well, as an example, as a young 7 MR. SCHMIDT: Same objection. If -- if
8 player, I have a clear memory of being given 8 you -- I would instruct the witness not to answer
9 instruction along the -- along the boards or, at 9 questions about his personal medical treatment that
10 that time, along the mesh, to protect yourself by 10 he may have received, including any diagnostic
11 putting an arm up between you and to brace and to 11 testing. This is something that he is not willing
12 protect yourself from contact along the boards. 12 to talk to.
13 Q. And was that contact to a specific 13 BY MR. BYRNE:
14 body part or just in general? 14 Q. All right. Bob, were you ever
15 A. Just in general. 15 offered through the league any testing for long-term
16 Q. Nobody gave you any instructions to 16 neurodegenerative injury?
17 protect the head? 17 A. No.
18 A. It was a general warning that you 18 Q. Did you ever undergo any baseline
19 needed to be aware on the ice, you needed to protect 19 testing for concussion?
20 yourself, and it was your body, your entire body. 20 A. No.
21 We didn't discuss one piece of the body at a time. 21 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
22 We talked about the entire person. 22 BY MR. BYRNE:
23 Q. So my question was specifically the 23 Q. Are you aware of any of the NFL
24 head, so your answer would be no? 24 concussion stories or settlement?
25 A. My answer -- 25 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
Page 31 Page 33
1 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. Asked and 1 question. Stories?
2 answered. 2 BY MR. BYRNE:
3 THE DEPONENT: I think my answer would 3 Q. Were you aware of the NFL
4 be, yes, that the head was included in the 4 litigation with regards to concussions?
5 instructions that I was given. 5 A. Yes.
6 BY MR. BYRNE: 6 Q. What were you aware about?
7 Q. Okay. During your time in the NHL 7 A. I was aware that there was a
8 as a player -- and these questions are only towards 8 litigation between the league and players and that
9 your time with the Canadiens as a player, Bob -- 9 there was a settlement.
10 shots or hits to the head were considered legal by 10
11 the league at that time; is that correct? 11
12 MR. LUPION: Object to the form. 12
13 THE DEPONENT: Intentional hits to the 13
14 head were never legal, in my recollection. 14 Q. Are you aware of the NFL Segal
15 BY MR. BYRNE: 15 Group conclusion that one in three players will
16 Q. Okay. You have a son who played in 16 suffer long-term neurodegenerative injury?
17 the league, correct? 17 A. No, I'm not.
18 A. Yes. 18 Q. Do you have any reason to think
19 Q. And did you ever discuss head 19 that you, as a former NHL player, would be exempt
20 injuries with Steve? 20 from that risk?
21 A. Not specifically. 21 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
22 Q. And he played on one of your clubs? 22 THE DEPONENT: I'm not aware of it, so I
23 A. He did. 23 don't really understand how I could judge myself
24 Q. Bob, have you ever been diagnosed 24 inside of it.
25 with any long-term neurodegenerative disease? 25

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1 BY MR. BYRNE: 1 disease?
2 Q. Okay. So you undertook the risk of 2 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
3 concussions when you played, Bob? 3 THE DEPONENT: I have no understanding
4 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the 4 of concussions and what -- what they could or -- I'm
5 question. 5 unaware of long-term attachment to bumps to the
6 THE DEPONENT: In my workplace, there 6 head, concussions, and long-term injury.
7 were risks, and I willingly and -- accepted the 7 BY MR. BYRNE:
8 risks that were -- that were there and feel that -- 8 Q. Is today the first day you heard of
9 feel comfortable that I did. 9 those?
10 BY MR. BYRNE: 10 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
11 Q. So you knew concussions were a 11 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
12 risk? 12 THE DEPONENT: Today is not the first
13 A. No, I did not know concussions were 13 day I've heard of those.
14 a risk. 14 BY MR. BYRNE:
15 Q. Did you know that concussions could 15 Q. When was the first day, the best of
16 lead to long-term neurodegenerative injury while you 16 your recollection, that you heard that?
17 played? 17 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
18 MR. SCHMIDT: Objection -- object to 18 THE DEPONENT: My best recollection is
19 form. 19 that it became -- I became aware of it during my
20 THE DEPONENT: I do not know about the 20 preparation for our deposition today.
21 terminology that you used. 21 BY MR. BYRNE:
22 BY MR. BYRNE: 22 Q. So all the time that you had your
23 Q. Have you ever heard the term 23 career in the NHL, from 1973 through -- bear with me
24 "chronic traumatic encephalopathy" or "CTE"? 24 if I have the dates wrong. Are you still presently
25 A. I'm unaware of that. 25 a consultant in 2014?
Page 35 Page 37
1 Q. Have you ever heard that term? 1 A. I am not.
2 A. I have not. 2 Q. Through your end of your consulting
3 Q. Is today the first day that you 3 career, 2012?
4 ever heard that word? 4 A. '14, '15.
5 A. Possibly, other than in our 5 Q. Okay. So up until -- through that
6 preparation here today, but what does it mean? I 6 entire time, you never heard these words that we
7 don't know what it means. 7 just spoke about or these conditions?
8 Q. I didn't ask you what it meant, 8 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
9 Bob, I just asked you if you ever heard that word 9 THE DEPONENT: Well, the specific words
10 before. 10 you use are not familiar to me. The concept that
11 A. Okay. 11 has been put forth that concussions can lead to
12 Q. So your answer is the same, you 12 long-term injury, I've heard of that, but I don't
13 never heard that word until I just asked you it? 13 know that it -- I don't know what it is. I don't
14 A. That's how I recognize it, yeah. 14 know whether --
15 Q. I don't think I understand your 15 BY MR. BYRNE:
16 answer. I think my question is just for a "yes" or 16 Q. My question is just not of your
17 "no." 17 understanding of it, Bob, it's just when you first
18 Bob, is today the first day that you 18 heard it.
19 ever heard the word "chronic traumatic 19 A. When I first --
20 encephalopathy" or "CTE"? 20 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
21 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. 21 THE DEPONENT: I don't recall when I
22 THE DEPONENT: I think it is. 22 first heard.
23 BY MR. BYRNE: 23 BY MR. BYRNE:
24 Q. Were you ever given any warnings 24 Q. And, now, when I asked that
25 that concussions could possibly lead to Alzheimer 25 question earlier, you said the first time was in --

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1 was in possibly your prep or the first time you 1 THE DEPONENT: I have no desire to be
2 heard my question. Is that still accurate? 2 tested for ...
3 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. I'm just 3 BY MR. BYRNE:
4 confused by the line of questioning, subject to -- 4 Q. Do you believe that the NHL should
5 THE DEPONENT: Well, I've lost track of 5 pay for any of that testing if a player wanted to
6 where we started and where we're going. So 6 go -- undertake that to see if he had that
7 understanding that there's a concept and hearing 7 condition?
8 specific words sometimes used as -- when they break 8 A. That's --
9 them down into just the letters, the -- are -- you 9 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
10 know, it's not something that -- if someone asked me 10 THE DEPONENT: That's out of my area of
11 what is this, I would not be able to respond. 11 expertise, whether -- personally, if you want to ask
12 BY MR. BYRNE: 12 me -- do you want to ask me the question personally?
13 Q. Okay. I just want to make sure 13 BY MR. BYRNE:
14 that we're clear. My question was to CTE 14 Q. My questions are all towards -- to
15 originally, and you'd never heard of that word until 15 you, your opinion.
16 I used it today; is that accurate? 16 A. Than isn't the way it was phrased.
17 MR. LUPION: Object to the form; asked 17 Q. Strike that. Let me rephrase it.
18 and answered. 18 In your opinion, would you -- do you
19 THE DEPONENT: Yeah, I believe I 19 believe that the NHL should provide testing for
20 answered that. 20 players who believe they may have sustained
21 BY MR. BYRNE: 21 long-term neurodegenerative injury?
22 Q. Is that accurate? 22 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
23 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form; asked and 23 THE DEPONENT: For me?
24 answered. You can answer again. 24 BY MR. BYRNE:
25 THE DEPONENT: The -- the description 25 Q. Yes.
Page 39 Page 41
1 you used, the three words together, today is the 1 A. I don't feel that the NHL has an
2 first time I recognize those words. 2 obligation to -- to me to pay for testing on
3 BY MR. BYRNE: 3 something that I don't know what it is.
4 Q. And the three letter is the first 4 Q. Okay. Would your answer possibly
5 time as well, CTE? 5 change if you did have an understanding of what it
6 A. That is something that I've heard, 6 is?
7 but I never dug into it to understand it. 7 A. I think I can answer in the
8 Q. I just want to know was the first 8 present, which I have already done.
9 time, the best of your recollection, that you heard 9 Q. Okay. Bob, when you were playing,
10 "CTE." 10 did the players depend upon the NHL for information
11 A. I don't recall. 11 for risks such as long-term neurodegenerative
12 Q. Was it more than a year ago? 12 injury?
13 A. I don't recall. 13 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
14 Q. Bob, when you were playing, would 14 THE DEPONENT: No, they did not.
15 you have wanted to know all the risks that you could 15 BY MR. BYRNE:
16 encounter with head hits? 16
18 MR. SCHMIDT: Join. 18
19 THE DEPONENT: I was very comfortable 19
20 accepting the risks that were attached to my working 20
21 career. 21
22 BY MR. BYRNE: 22
23 Q. Would you like to be tested for any 23
24 long-term neurodegenerative injury? 24

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1 1 inform me that I was healed, that I was strong
2 2 enough, that there was no risk of aggravation or
3 3 extending an injury, then I was ready to play.
4 4 Q. And you always went through that
5 5 procedure?
6 6 A. Yes.
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 BY MR. BYRNE: 12
13 Q. Do you believe there was a culture 13
14 that NHL players needed to be on the ice and not in 14
15 the training room? 15
16 MR. LUPION: Object to the form. Is 16
17 there a time frame? 17
18 BY MR. BYRNE: 18
19 Q. It was all during the time he 19
20 played. 20
21 A. Well, my recollection is that when 21
22 you were injured, you were injured, and you 22
23 recovered until you were healthy and capable of 23
24 returning to play, and at that point, with 24
25 consultation of the medical staff, the trainer, the 25
Page 43 Page 45
1 doctor, a decision would be made that you were ready 1
2 to return to play. 2
3 Q. Did you always adhere to that? 3
4 A. Adhere to ... 4
5 Q. What you just said, the 5
6 consultation w th the trainers and you'd make this 6 BY MR. BYRNE:
7 decision about return to play? 7 Q. So if a story was out that you
8 A. I had confidence in our training 8 didn't disclose that and didn't have a medical
9 staff. 9 consultation and that would not be accurate?
10 Q. But did you always adhere to that, 10 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
11 you? 11 THE DEPONENT: That would not be
12 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to the form. Asked 12 accurate.
13 and answered. 13 BY MR. BYRNE:
14 MR. LUPION: Object to form. What do 14 Q. You recall the game I'm talking
15 you mean by "adhere?" 15 about, correct?
16 BY MR. BYRNE: 16 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
17 Q. Did he always follow that -- what 17 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to the form. What
18 he -- that -- that answer he just provided, that you 18 game are you talking about?
19 would be in consultation, that you would have 19 BY MR. BYRNE:
20 discussions with the trainer, and the doctors would 20
21 feel best for you to get back on the ice? 21
22 A. Yeah. Part of the consultation was 22
23 with me, and I had a participation in the 23
24 consultation, and when I felt strong enough, capable 24
25 enough, and the doctors or training staff would 25

612.338.3376
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1 1 They got their bell rung, but they were expected to
2 2 be out on the ice. Is that a statement you would
3 3 agree with?
5 5 THE DEPONENT: My experience is that I
6 6 was expected to be out on the ice when I was capable
7 7 and ready from whatever kind of injury or setback I
8 8 was working through.
9 9 BY MR. BYRNE:
10 10 Q. Do you stay in touch with some of
11 11 your former teammates?
12 Q. Okay. Did you observe any of your 12 A. Yes.
13 other teammates sustaining head trauma? 13 Q. Do you know of any of them, without
14 MR. LUPION: Object to the form. 14 mentioning their names, but do you know of any of
15 THE DEPONENT: Yes. 15 them who were suffering from the effects of a
16 BY MR. BYRNE: 16 concussion?
17 Q. Did you observe any modality of 17 A. I do not.
18 treatment with those teammates that sustained head 18 Q. Do you know any retired players
19 trauma? 19 that weren't your teammates who are suffering the
20 A. Can you just clarify the one term: 20 effects of concussions?
21 "modality." 21 A. Yes.
22 Q. What type of treatment did they 22 Q. Okay. And what do they tell you is
23 receive? Were they give -- were they taken off the 23 their symptoms?
24 ice and given smelling salts, were they -- fingers 24 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
25 held up, one -- how many do you see, one, two, 25 THE DEPONENT: The players that I have
Page 47 Page 49
1 three, what city are you in? Did you observe any of 1 in mind are not players that I am in communication
2 that? 2 w th but players that I know who have not returned
3 A. Yes, I probably saw that. I 3 to play with concussions being the reason why
4 probably saw players being -- being assessed in the 4 they've ended their career.
5 way you've just described. 5 BY MR. BYRNE:
6 Q. You talked with your teammates, 6 Q. Were these -- these players you're
7 correct? You had conversations with your teammates? 7 aware of, is this something that you read in the
8 A. Oh, yes. 8 paper about or something that you would have more
9 Q. Did you have conversation with your 9 personal knowledge due to a relationship?
10 teammates about injuries and how you were feeling? 10 A. Not a relationship, but I think a
11 A. Probably. 11 little closer than in the papers, such as when you
12 Q. Do you recall any of your teammates 12 are working in the NHL, this kind of information
13 ever telling you that -- that they were playing 13 is -- is part of your day-to-day work life.
14 through with a concussion? 14 Q. To the best of your knowledge, what
15 A. I do not. 15 type of problems are these people suffering w th?
16 Q. Okay. Do you recall ever seeing 16 A. I don't have specific knowledge of
17 one of your teammates knocked out? 17 what their -- their ongoing problems are, but the
18 A. I do not. 18 fact that they are not safe to return to play is
19 Q. While you were playing, did you 19 what is most prominent in my understanding of their
20 ever have any discussion with any player with 20 difficulties.
21 regards to concussions? 21 Q. Do you know who Mark Napier is?
22 A. Not to my recollection. 22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. Some statements have been 23 Q. Who is he?
24 made by retired players that, during the era in the 24 A. Mark Napier is a former pro hockey
25 '70s and '80s, that people just played through them. 25 player.

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1 Q. And does he currently have a role 1 A. Yes.
2 or a position, that you are aware of? 2 Q. And do you recall what team you
3 A. I am unaware if he's still involved 3 were employed with?
4 with an alumni association or not. 4 A. With -- with Dallas.
5 Q. Do you ever receive e-mails from 5 Q. The Dallas Stars, Bob?
6 him? 6 A. Dallas Stars, yes.
7 A. No. 7 Q. And what exactly was your job title
8 Q. Did you ever receive any form of 8 when you first heard of these tests?
9 communication from him? 9 A. I was the manager.
10 A. I have had some communication from 10 Q. The general manager?
11 him. 11 A. General manager.
12 Q. Have any of those communications 12 Q. What were your job duties as a
13 pertained to concussions? 13 general manager, Bob?
14 A. No, they haven't. 14 A. My job duties as a general manager
15 Q. Or head injuries? 15 was to operate the hockey department for the
16 A. No. 16 organization.
17 Q. Do you know Wendy McCreary? 17 Q. What does that mean?
18 A. No, I don't. 18 A. Well, to -- to organize the
19 Q. Okay. Have you ever received any 19 players, recruit, prepare, organize coaching staffs,
20 emails from a person named Wendy McCreary? 20 recruitment staffs, support staffs, trainers,
21 A. I have not. 21 equipment trainers, medical staff, plan scheduling,
22 22 plan -- anything that would have to do with carrying
23 23 out the hockey players becoming a team and carrying
24 24 out the season.
25 25 Q. So you would be in charge of
Page 51 Page 53
1 1 medical staff and medical issues, Bob?
2 2 A. Yes.
3 3 Q. And did the NHL ever have
4 4 communication with you as a general manager
5 5 regarding medical staff and medical training?
6 6 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
7 7 THE DEPONENT: Not that I'm aware of.
8 8 BY MR. BYRNE:
9 Q. Have you ever heard these terms 9 Q. So you don't recall ever receiving
10 before? 10 any communication from the NHL with regards to
11 A. The -- the last one that you 11 training your medical staff in treating -- or just
12 mentioned, SCAT, is a familiar term. 12 in -- with regards to training your medical staff
13 Q. Okay. And when did you first hear 13 as --
14 about the SCAT term? 14 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
15 A. I don't recall specifically, but at 15 THE DEPONENT: No, I don't recall
16 some point, when baseline testing and some of the 16 getting any direction from the NHL on that.
17 other forms of protocol came in and I was working in 17 BY MR. BYRNE:
18 a management job, these terms started to show up in 18 Q. Do you recall getting any direction
19 information. 19 from the NHL on how to treat concussions?
20 Q. What is your understanding of those 20 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
21 tests? 21 THE DEPONENT: I don't recall getting
22 A. I really have no understanding of 22 any specific information on how to treat
23 the test specifically. 23 concussions.
24 Q. Okay. But you first heard about 24 BY MR. BYRNE:
25 these terms in a management role? 25 Q. Do you recall receiving any

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1 information from the NHL with regards to concussion 1 help them knock down any obstacles.
2 protocol? 2 Q. To the best of your knowledge, Bob,
3 A. Yes. 3 was every single player that went to training camp
4 Q. What information did you receive? 4 given that baseline test?
5 MR. LUPION: Object to the form. Again, 5 A. I'm not sure if it was every single
6 when? 6 player who went to training or if it was the players
7 BY MR. BYRNE: 7 on your NHL roster, but I would think if it was set
8 Q. Bob, do you understand that means 8 up, then it would be every player who was at
9 during your capacity as a general manager? We are 9 training camp.
10 talking about when you received communication from 10 Q. Do you have a specific knowledge
11 the NHL with regards to the treatment of 11 that that was complete -- that was done thoroughly
12 concussions. 12 and that each player underwent the test?
13 MR. LUPION: Not treatment. 13 A. I have confidence that it was done,
14 THE DEPONENT: Not the treatment of a 14 yes.
15 concussion. 15 Q. My question is do you have
16 BY MR. BYRNE: 16 knowledge that it was done, not confidence.
17 Q. Strike that. 17 A. Yeah, I have knowledge that it was
18 The protocols for concussion management. 18 done.
19 A. Well, one specific recall I have is 19 Q. Okay. And the reason being players
20 that there was -- there was a -- a testing program 20 who are in training camp sustain trauma, they
21 put in pre-season so that the players would be 21 sustained hits, correct?
22 tested before the season began. 22 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
23 Q. And do you recall when that went 23 THE DEPONENT: I think the purpose of
24 into place, Bob? 24 that was to -- to get a baseline on everyone to have
25 A. I don't recall specifically, but 25 more information on each player so that, should an
Page 55 Page 57
1 sometime between '95 and 2000. 1 injury occur, then there's a starting point.
2 Q. And what did you have to do to 2 BY MR. BYRNE:
3 comply with that directive? 3 Q. Now, what did you do with those
4 A. Well, along with our medical staff, 4 tests once that they -- once they were completed?
5 we had to put in place the -- the recommended 5 What did you do with the baseline test results?
6 recommendations to have the players tested so that 6 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
7 they would have a baseline of criteria before the 7 THE DEPONENT: We didn't do anything
8 season began and that it would be done every year, 8 with them. They were part of our medical
9 and those -- that information was then used to judge 9 information on each player, and they would be used
10 a player who had a head injury during the season to 10 according to how they were carried out to ...
11 find out when he came back to his -- his starting 11 BY MR. BYRNE:
12 point, his baseline. 12 Q. Did you have to report to the NHL
13 Q. If you could please describe to me 13 that you -- that you had completed the test; that
14 exactly how you as the general manager of the Dallas 14 every single player was tested in training camp?
15 Stars implemented those procedures. 15 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
16 A. Well, my role would be to -- to -- 16 THE DEPONENT: I don't recall having to
17 that procedure was -- was presented and recommended 17 make a specific report to the NHL on that.
18 by the doctors, and so the doctor with our team at 18 BY MR. BYRNE:
19 the time would be informed that it had been agreed 19 Q. Did you receive any, you know,
20 to by the general managers, and then our medical 20 written reports from your medical staff that they
21 staff, the doctors and the trainers, would set up 21 completed all the baseline testing?
22 the people needed to have the -- the testing done, 22 A. A written report --
23 the proper people, the proper place, and if they had 23 Q. Or an email? Something that said,
24 any kinds of needs or difficulties in -- in getting 24 Mr. Gainey, we completed all baseline testings, all
25 that accomplished, then I was informed and I would 25 players in training camp?

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1 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. The 1 trainers as to which players were active, on an
2 witness was in the middle of giving a response when 2 active roster, or on an unactive roster.
3 you interrupted. Go ahead and continue your answer. 3 BY MR. BYRNE:
4 THE DEPONENT: Well, I'm trying to 4 Q. Okay. Going back to your playing
5 recall how the communication on -- all training camp 5 career now, Bob, were you aware of any testing that
6 medical information. I would get a written report 6 was administered by the NHL for players during your
7 on each player, on their height, weight, different 7 era who missed games due to a concussion?
8 kind of testing that they had done, whether it be 8 A. I'm not aware.
9 medical or physical, and I don't remember 9 Q. You were team captain, Bob?
10 specifically having information that each player had 10 A. Yes.
11 completed this particular test, but I do -- I do 11 Q. For twelve years?
12 remember receiving information that all the players 12 A. Less than that, but ...
13 were tested, all of the obligations and requirements 13 Q. What was your role as a team
14 of our hockey department and our medical department 14 captain?
15 were complete. 15 A. Well, it wasn't a defined role. It
16 BY MR. BYRNE: 16 was a position of leadership, it was a position of
17 Q. Okay. When was the SCAT test used, 17 experience, and it could involve communication with
18 either SCAT1, 2, or 3? 18 younger players, communication with the coaching
19 A. I don't know. 19 staff, and -- but more a -- more a symbolic
20 Q. Okay. Did you ever see the SCAT 20 leadership responsibility role.
21 test? 21 Q. And in that role, would you talk to
22 A. No. 22 players about how they're feeling? Medical --
23 Q. Do you know if any of your players 23 physically, I should say?
24 were given a SCAT test during your career as a 24 A. Not -- not to my recollection.
25 general manager for the Stars? 25 Q. If somebody was hurting, would
Page 59 Page 61
1 A. I -- I think yes. 1 you -- talk to me; are you ready to go?
2 Q. Would you have been given an update 2 A. If somebody was injured and in the
3 from your training staff as a result of the SCAT 3 hospital, I would visit.
4 test? 4 Q. Okay. I mean in the -- in the
5 A. I wouldn't have been given an 5 locker room, somebody who was ailing, would you talk
6 update as to the SCAT test, but I would have been 6 to him about it or his ability, ready to go?
7 given an update on the players' improvement or lack 7 A. No. Players and the medical staff
8 of improvement. 8 made their own decisions on that.
9 Q. Would you have commun cation with 9 Q. But in your era, was the captain
10 the doctor about a certain player who was given a 10 kind of an extension of the coach?
11 SCAT test with regards to his abil ty to be on the 11 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
12 roster? 12 question.
13 A. Yes. I mean, my communication 13 THE DEPONENT: No.
14 would -- with the doctor would be more lay 14 BY MR. BYRNE:
15 communication. The player is going through the 15 Q. If we could go into your
16 protocol, he is showing these symptoms, he is -- he 16 post-playing career -- are you good to continue? Do
17 is improving, but he rode the bike yesterday and 17 you need to take a couple of minutes?
18 still had recurring symptoms, so we are going to 18 MR. SCHMIDT: Why don't we take a little
19 back him off; we will try him again in three days. 19 break.
20 Q. Would you be in consultat on w th 20 THE DEPONENT: Take a break?
21 the doctor and your coaching staff with regards to 21 MR. SCHMIDT: Yeah. We've been going
22 players that would be dressing in the game? 22 over an hour. Thank you very much.
23 MR. LUPION: Object to the form. 23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the
24 THE DEPONENT: I was in constant 24 record. The time is 10:07 a.m.
25 communication w th the coaching staff and the 25 -- RECESS AT 10:07 --

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1 -- RESUMING AT 10:19 -- 1 Q. And it's my understanding you
2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the 2 attended approximately eleven board of governors
3 record at 10:19 a.m. 3 meetings. Does that sound correct?
4 BY MR. BYRNE: 4 A. I'm not specific on how many, but I
5 Q. Mr. Gainey, during the break, did 5 know I attended meetings.
6 you have any opportunity to talk to your attorney? 6 Q. Okay. Did you also attend general
7 A. Yes, I did. 7 manager meetings?
8 Q. Do you wish to change any of your 8 A. Yes.
9 answers that we asked earlier today, at this time? 9 Q. And did you attend all the general
10 A. No, I don't. 10 manager meetings while you held the title, from '92
11 Q. Okay. I would like to now talk to 11 through 2010?
12 you about your post-playing career, and it's my 12 A. I believe -- I believe so, yes.
13 understanding that you were the head coach of the 13 Q. And while you were at the board of
14 North Stars from '90 to '95? 14 governors meetings, you had an opportunity to
15 A. I was the head coach of the North 15 observe the proceedings?
16 Stars from '90 to '93, and then the team transferred 16 A. Yes.
17 to Dallas in '93, 94. 17 Q. You participated in the
18 Q. And then you became the general 18 proceedings?
19 manager in 19 ... 19 A. Observational.
20 A. I took over responsibilities as the 20 Q. Okay. In your opinion of observing
21 manager in 1992. 21 the board of governor meetings, who were the most
22 Q. And you held that position up to 22 powerful or influential members of the board of
23 2003? 23 governors?
24 A. 2002, I believe. 24 MR. LUPION: Object to form of the
25 Q. Okay. And then you went to the 25 question.
Page 63 Page 65
1 Montreal Canadiens? 1 THE DEPONENT: I can't recall. The
2 A. 2003. 2 meetings were chaired by the commissioner, and I
3 Q. And you were the general manager 3 think that my memory says that all teams were --
4 through 2010 as well as the interim head coach 4 were participating on debates on questions that were
5 for 2006, 2009? 5 relevant at the time.
6 A. Twice, for a short period of time. 6 BY MR. BYRNE:
7 Q. Okay. At some point, then, you 7 Q. Did you have any opinion as to any
8 just became a consultant for the Canadiens after 8 of the owners who attended the board of governors
9 your general manager job ended? 9 meeting that were in a leadership role?
10 A. Yes. 10 A. No, I didn't -- I don't. I didn't.
11 Q. And then you became a consultant 11 Q. Were you aware of any particular
12 for the Dallas Stars in 2012 until approximately 12 owners whose voice had clout with other members of
13 2014? 13 the board of governors?
14 A. Yes. 14 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to the form of the
15 Q. And presently, you are not employed 15 question.
16 by an NHL club? 16 THE DEPONENT: No, I don't.
17 A. Presently, I am not employed by an 17 BY MR. BYRNE:
18 NHL club. 18 Q. And did you form any opinions of
19 Q. Are you presently employed 19 the members of the board of governors that you
20 anywhere? 20 observed during your eleven or so occasions that you
21 A. No, I'm not. 21 thought were impressive?
22 Q. Okay. It's also my understanding 22 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to the form of the
23 in your role of post-playing career you attended 23 question.
24 board of governors meetings? 24 THE DEPONENT: I was at the meetings to
25 A. Yes, I did. 25 listen and observe and hear the information being

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1 discussed through the eyes of the Dallas Stars. 1 off ces?
2 BY MR. BYRNE: 2 A. Not to my recollection.

3 Q. Was there group discussions? 3 Q. Okay. Bob, what was your job
4 A. Yes. 4 duties as a head coach?
5 Q. Did you participate in those group 5 A. The head coaching responsibilities,
6 discussions? 6 as I see them, is to prepare the team for the
7 A. No. 7 competition, which means planning and carrying out
8 Q. While you were general manager, was 8 practices, being in communication with players as to
9 it a similar type of setting where there was 9 their responsibilities, and being aware of travel
10 somebody leading the meeting and there were group 10 and anything that would -- would get the team to
11 discussions? 11 that next competition.
12 A. Yes. 12 Q. As a head coach, would you be
13 Q. Did you participate in those group 13 involved in the hiring process of trainers or
14 discussions? 14 doctors?
15 A. Yes. 15 A. Possibly, but in my own case -- in
16 Q. While you were employed by the 16 my own case, yes and no. For a part of the time
17 North Stars and the -- or the Stars, both of 17 when I was a head coach, I was also the manager, so
18 Minneapolis and Dallas, and the Canadiens, were you 18 I was doing that, and when I took coaching positions
19 ever given a telephone or a BlackBerry device to use 19 or I went in as an interim coach in Montreal, I was
20 in your business? 20 also the manager at the same time, so I was involved
21 A. Yes. 21 in hiring the people, but not -- it's not standard
22 Q. Did you use -- what type of phone? 22 one way or the other, but usually the hiring is done
23 Did you use a BlackBerry at all? 23 from the management office, not from the coach's
24 A. Yes. 24 office.
25 Q. And for what purpose would you use 25
Page 67 Page 69
1 the BlackBerry? 1
2 A. As a telephone, to receive or send 2
3 emails. Those would be the two. 3
4 Q. Is there a -- is there a thing on 4

5 the BlackBerry called pins where you could do, like, 5
6 instant messaging? 6
8 THE DEPONENT: I believe so. 8
9 BY MR. BYRNE: 9
10 Q. Did you use that? 10
11 A. No, I didn't. 11
12 Q. Okay. While you were using the 12
13 BlackBerry, did you ever have communications, to the 13
14 best of your recollection, with anyone regarding 14
15 concussions? 15
16 A. No. 16
17 Q. Any doctor that was associated with 17
18 the team? 18
19 A. No. 19
20 Q. The owner? 20
21 A. No. 21
22 Q. Any of your fellow general 22
23 managers? 23
24 A. Not to my recollection. 24
25 Q. Anybody within the NHL front 25

612.338.3376
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1 1 every -- that covered every possibility of medical
2 2 help we would need, but we had access to them.
3 3 Q. Gotcha. Do you recall the name of
4 4 the doctor, the neuropsychologist, that you had
5 5 access to?
6 6 A. I do not.
7 Q. How about with doctors in your 7 Q. Was t more than one?
8 role, have you ever had to terminate a doctor? 8 A. I do -- I don't know.
9 A. No, I haven't. 9 Q. Did you ever meet the
10 Q. For ne ther the Stars or the 10 neuropsychologist?
11 Canadiens? 11 A. I did not.
12 A. No. 12 Q. Do you know if the
13 Q. Okay. Did you ever hire a doctor 13 neuropsychologist ever attended any NHL-mandated
14 w th the Stars or the Canadiens? 14 meetings?
15 A. I was involved with putting all of 15 A. I don't know.
16 the staff together when we transitioned from 16 Q. Do you know if the
17 Minneapolis to Dallas, because we were a start-up 17 neuropsychologists ever attended the NHL Physician
18 and it was from ground zero. So the Dallas 18 Society meetings?
19 situation, the Dallas team, in 2 -- or 1995, I was 19 A. I don't know.
20 involved with not only re-engaging people who were 20 Q. Okay. Going to your time with the
21 already in place but finding new people to fill the 21 Canadiens, did you hire a team doctor?
22 roles. 22 A. There was a medical staff -- or in
23 Q. Did you have more than one doctor, 23 place when I arrived who were long-term associated
24 team doctor, during your tenure with the Stars? 24 with the hockey team in Montreal, and although I met
25 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. 25 with them and got an update of how they were
Page 71 Page 73
1 THE DEPONENT: No. 1 operating, I didn't hire them. They were -- he was
2 BY MR. BYRNE: 2 already engaged and in place, and I was comfortable
3 Q. Who was your team doctor? 3 with him.
4 A. The head physician was a Dr. Dan 4 Q. And his name?
5 Cooper. 5 A. David Mulder.
6 Q. Were you ever involved in the 6 Q. M-U-L --
7 hiring of a neuropsychologist? 7 A. M-U-L-D-E-R.
8 A. No. 8 Q. And d d Dr. Mulder also have the
9 Q. Was one ever hired during your 9 same duties where he would be responsible for
10 tenure? 10 getting a physician, such as a neuropsychologist,
11 A. The hiring of the doctor in Dallas, 11 either on staff or have access to?
12 part of the responsibility he had was to supply all 12 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
13 the necessary components of the other specialties 13 THE DEPONENT: He was responsible for --
14 that might be needed for the care and recovery or 14 for having physicians of all stripes available for
15 health of the players and also to give us access 15 whatever might be necessary. The most common in --
16 into the medical community, which Dr. Cooper did. 16 or, as I said, dentists, ophthalmologists,
17 So we didn't -- I didn't hire specific doctors, but 17 orthopaedics, but, again, the real benef t is he had
18 I was involved in engaging the head doctor, who 18 a wide window into the health commun ty in Montreal,
19 would present us with the access he had to 19 had a long-term position at the Montreal General
20 orthopaedic doctors or dentists or whatever kind of 20 Hospital, and had access to any kind of
21 specialties would be needed, including, I assume 21 specialists -- hand, foot, whatever it could be,
22 neurosurgery. 22 neurologist -- when it was necessary.
23 Q. Did you have a neuropsychologist on 23 BY MR. BYRNE:
24 your staff at Dallas? 24 Q. Bob, can I just ask you to just
25 A. We didn't have a staff that was 25 speak up a l ttle b t. I apologize. I had a little

612.338.3376
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1 trouble hearing you at one point. 1 MR. BYRNE: Well, I think Mr. Gainey may
2 A. I will. 2 have understood it, Adam, to be fair, so can we just
3 Q. You got a little soft. I don't 3 agree to have maybe one person do an objection here
4 know if the court reporter -- you caught everything? 4 and stick to the PTO of --
5 THE REPORTER: I got him. 5 MR. LUPION: We'll do our best.
6 BY MR. BYRNE: 6 MR. BYRNE: Thank you.
7 Q. Okay. Do you recall the name of 7 MR. LUPION: But I didn't understand the
8 the neuropsychologist? 8 question as well.
9 A. I don't. 9 MR. BYRNE: Fair enough. I just --
10 Q. Do you know if any of your staff 10 wanted to just clarify.
11 doctors, including Dr. Mulder, attended any NHL 11 MR. SCHMIDT: Nor did I.
12 meetings with regards to concussions? 12 BY MR. BYRNE:
13 A. I believe Dr. Mulder attended any 13 Q. Mr. Gainey -- can we read that back
14 annual meetings of the medical -- the NHL medical 14 now.
15 doctors. 15 --- Reporter read back.
16 Q. Do you know if he attend the NHL 16 MR. SCHMIDT: Same objection.
17 Physicians Society meetings? 17 THE DEPONENT: There -- there were
18 A. I don't. 18 requirements to report all injuries through our
19 Q. Did anyone in the NHL ever approach 19 medical staff, who kept files and would collect
20 you in your job duties as a general manager with 20 information on -- on games lost, on specific
21 regards to attendance at any mandated concussion 21 injuries, and -- so that would be how the
22 meetings? 22 information was communicated to NHL.
23 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. 23 BY MR. BYRNE:
24 MR. LUPION: Can I get a read-back. 24 Q. Do you know who at the NHL received
25 --- Reporter read back. 25 that information?
Page 75 Page 77
1 MR. LUPION: What type -- could you 1 A. I don't.
2 clarify what you mean by "any." 2 Q. Were you copied with that
3 MR. BYRNE: Did Bob have to attend any 3 information?
4 mandated concussion meetings? 4 A. I recall receiving information at
5 MR. LUPION: A concussion meeting? 5 the end of the year that would have -- that would
6 BY MR. BYRNE: 6 have number of games lost for certain injuries to
7 Q. Yeah, a meeting with regards 7 try to -- number of games lost by each team, number
8 specifically to concussions. 8 of games lost to specific injuries in an attempt to
9 A. I did not attend any meetings, but 9 educate and, you know, these are the areas where
10 I don't remember any mandated meetings. 10 games are being lost. How do we -- how do we make
11 Q. Was there any mandated reporting 11 it better?
12 requirements to the NHL with regards to concussions? 12 Q. Just speaking for your job with the
13 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. 13 Stars and the Canadiens, d d you receive any reports
14 MR. LUPION: Reporting from whom? From 14 from your med cal staff with regards to injuries
15 him? From doctors? 15 through email?
16 MR. BYRNE: Guys, can we just keep it to 16 A. Most of my communication with our
17 one -- maybe one person objecting here, and it's 17 medical staff would be verbal, and it was ongoing,
18 getting a little -- a little bit now with the 18 and by that, I mean, during the season, daily. And
19 speaking -- 19 did I ever receive any communication? Probably.
20 MR. LUPION: I appreciate it. I'm just 20 You know, at some time, if I was not
21 trying to -- 21 with the team and they were playing in a game in
22 MR. BYRNE: Yeah. Maybe we could just 22 Colorado or Los Angeles, and at the end of the game,
23 do -- 23 while the team is -- is moving towards the airport,
24 MR. LUPION: -- help clarify the 24 I could receive an email with an update on who got
25 question. 25 bumped, who got bruised, who's ready to come back to

612.338.3376
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1 play. 1 collection of data of any e-mails that you may have
2 Q. Did you use your email account 2 used with regards to your job duties as a
3 frequently in your job duties as a general manager 3 consultant?
4 for the Canadiens and Stars? 4 A. No, I wasn't.
5 A. It became more normal that 5 Q. Okay. During your tenure as a
6 information was communicated by email. I think in 6 general manager or as a head coach, were you aware
7 my time with the Stars, for much of that time, we 7 of any players that continued to play with any
8 were still working with faxes. That's how 8 symptoms of a concussion?
9 information was sent to the teams. But at some 9 A. No, I'm not.
10 point, there was a changeover where, if you -- if 10 Q. Any players that you're aware of
11 you weren't connected electronically, you weren't 11 that played that had headaches?
12 getting the information. 12 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
13 Q. Do you still have the BlackBerry in 13 question.
14 your possession that you used while you were 14 THE DEPONENT: No, I'm not.
15 employed by Dallas or the Canadiens? 15 BY MR. BYRNE:
16 A. No, I don't. 16 Q. Any players that played while they
17 MR. BYRNE: Okay. The reason being is 17 were still experiencing dizziness or disorientation?
18 that we know we didn't receive any -- any production 18 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
19 of any e-mails for Mr. Gainey with regards to any of 19 question.
20 this, so I was just wondering if that information 20 THE DEPONENT: No, I'm not.
21 was secured, we would just put that on the record 21 BY MR. BYRNE:
22 and revisit that later. 22
23 MR. SCHMIDT: Noted for the record. 23
24 BY MR. BYRNE: 24
25 Q. Presently, do you have a cell phone 25
Page 79 Page 81
1 or some sort of electronic device that you use for 1
2 email? 2
3 A. Yes. 3
4 Q. And did you purchase that on your 4
5 own? 5
6 A. Yes. 6
7 Q. And did you purchase that after 7
8 your tenure with the Canadiens -- or, strike that -- 8

9 yeah, the Canadiens was 2000. Stars was 2014, 9
10 correct? 10
11 A. Yeah. 11
12 Q. Was that a phone that you used with 12
13 the Stars or was this something new? 13
14 A. This is my own I purchased 14
15 personally. 15
16 Q. And when you were consulting with 16
17 the Stars, you had a separate cell phone? 17
18 A. No. I used my own phone. 18
19 Q. Did you ever present your phone to 19
20 anybody for collection of data? 20
21 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. 21
22 THE DEPONENT: No. 22
23 BY MR. BYRNE: 23
24 Q. Were you asked by anybody to 24
25 produce your phone as part of this case for the 25

612.338.3376
Page 82 Page 84
1 1 soon? Nothing -- nothing deep or specific, but in
2 2 casual conversation, that is something that would
3 3 happen.
4 4 BY MR. BYRNE:
5 5 Q. Did you ever trade for a player,
6 6 Bob, who had suffered concussions?
7 7 A. I don't recall.
8 8 Q. Did you ever sign a player as a
9 9 free agent who had suffered concussions?
10 10 A. I don't recall.
11 11 Q. Did you ever release a player due
12 12 to injuries from a concussion?
13 13 A. I don't think so.
14 14 Q. Did you have personal concerns for
15 15 concussed players, Bob?
17 17 THE DEPONENT: I -- I -- I mean, I was
18 18 attached to all of our players, and their -- their
19 19 health and their safety is important. It was
20 20 important on a business level, it was important on a
21 21 personal level, and if someone was -- was injured,
22 22 then, you know, it was -- it was normal to be
23 23 concerned and to -- and to stay current and
24 24 understand what was happening with them.
25 25
Page 83 Page 85
1 1 BY MR. BYRNE:
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 Q. Okay. Did you ever have any 7
8 meetings with other general managers or other team 8
9 coaches regarding players' health and safety issues? 9
10 A. Meetings or discussions? 10
11 Q. Let's say discussions, Bob. 11
12 A. Yeah. I think yes. 12 Q. Do you have any recollect on of
13 Q. What was the -- what details were 13 warning a player not to return to the ice with a
14 discussed in those conversations? 14 concussion until he was symptom-free?
15 A. Well, it -- you know, it -- I don't 15 A. I don't really have a recollection
16 remember. 16 of a specific warning to a player.
17 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. What 17 Q. Was there ever a time, Bob, where
18 conversations? 18 you did not follow the advice of a team doctor
19 MR. BYRNE: The ones he just said he had 19 regarding a concussed player?
20 with general managers or other team coaches. 20 A. Not to my recollection.
21 MR. SCHMIDT: Oh, all right. Well, if 21 Q. Were you aware of any NHL rules or
22 you have a specific recollection, go ahead. 22 pol cies w th regards to return to play of concussed
23 THE DEPONENT: Well, I would perhaps 23 players?
24 ask -- ask another general manager how is such and 24 A. Am I aware of any?
25 such a player doing? Is he going to be back playing 25 Q. At the time you were general

612.338.3376
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1 manager, head coach -- 1 guess, with good medical care, good advice, good
2 A. Yes. 2 rehab, and proper training so that they could
3 Q. -- were you aware of any? 3 perform.
4 A. I was aware of policies and 4 BY MR. BYRNE:
5 procedures. 5 Q. Did you ever give personal advice?
6 Q. Can you please explain to me in the 6 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
7 best detail you can those policies and procedures. 7 question.
8 A. Well, we have discussed the policy 8 THE DEPONENT: I left most of the advice
9 of benchmarking, pre-season medical testing to find 9 to the medical staff. That's why they were in
10 out different criteria on a player's neurological 10 place, and ...
11 signs, and I'm also aware that, as information 11 BY MR. BYRNE:
12 improved and knowledge became more available, that 12 Q. Okay. When you were general
13 the protocol was put in place for specific things 13 manager and a player was taken off the ice and put
14 the trainer would ask the player when he came to the 14 into the quiet room, did you ever go down to the
15 bench; if he was taken off of the -- out of the 15 quiet room to check on them?
16 playing surface into the room, that there would be 16 A. No.
17 certain questions or -- or testing that he would go 17 Q. Stayed away from it?
18 through to try to determine whether he was -- 18 A. Yes.
19 whether he was clear-headed, whether he was fit, 19 Q. Did you ever go down to the ice at
20 whether he was injured, and -- and then there were 20 any time as a general manager to check on an injured
21 protocol or policies in place of, once a diagnosis 21 player?
22 was made, how he would proceed through his recovery. 22 A. No.
23 Q. And that's the best detail that you 23 Q. These protocols that you said that
24 can recall of the directives you were given from the 24 you adhered to as a general manager that were
25 NHL in concuss on management? 25 mandated by the NHL, would you have wanted them in
Page 87 Page 89
1 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. 1 place during your playing career from '73 to '89?
2 THE DEPONENT: That's my best 2 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
3 recollection today. 3 THE DEPONENT: Well, I was comfortable
4 BY MR. BYRNE: 4 in the environment that I played in that I was
5 Q. Okay. I know that you mentioned 5 capable of keeping myself safe, and I think that the
6 that you had a real concern with your players' 6 evolution of the sport and -- and the medical
7 safety because you felt a responsibility as a 7 knowledge, it's not possible to transplant something
8 general manager, as a head coach. Did I understand 8 from today into another era, another decade, another
9 that correctly? 9 generation.
10 A. Yes. 10 BY MR. BYRNE:
11 Q. Have you followed up with any of 11 Q. Okay. Was there any occasion, Bob,
12 the players since you left the position of head 12 when you were head coach where you saw one of your
13 coach or general manager to see how they are doing 13 players having a -- or strike that.
14 today? 14 What were the symptoms that you were
15 A. I have not made a purposeful 15 told about with regards to a concussion with a
16 pursuit of former players to find out how things are 16 player on the ice? What would be observed of that
17 going. 17 player?
18 Q. Do you have a concern for them, 18 MR. LUPION: Objection. Can you read
19 though? 19 that back, please.
20 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the 20 --- Reporter read back.
21 question. 21 MR. LUPION: Is this during his playing
22 THE DEPONENT: I -- I -- I had a concern 22 career, coaching and GM career?
23 when players were injured and they were under my 23 MR. BYRNE: No, no, this is as a head
24 responsibility to try to give them the best medical 24 coach, Adam.
25 care, to try to alleve (sic) their symptoms, I 25 MR. LUPION: Okay.

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Page 90 Page 92
1 THE DEPONENT: I didn't have any 1 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
2 instruction on what symptoms to look for or be able 2 Mischaracterizing the witness's testimony.
3 to judge. If a player was uncomfortable because 3 BY MR. BYRNE:
4 he -- he'd had a hard hit or a hit to the head, then 4 Q. All right. Well, let me rephrase
5 he was taken -- he was taken from the players' 5 it, Bob.
6 bench, and the doctors would put -- or do what the 6 A. Okay.
7 doctors do. 7 Q. You just mentioned that you
8 BY MR. BYRNE: 8 received informat on from the NHL PA, but I just
9 Q. Were you given any training with 9 want to understand, d d you receive something
10 regards to identifying concussed players -- 10 directly from the NHL PA during your capac ty as a
11 A. No. 11 head coach or general manager?
12 Q. -- while you were head coach? 12 A. No.
13 A. I wasn't. 13 Q. Okay. How d d these management of
14 Q. Okay. Just -- even though you may 14 concuss on protocols change over time from the start
15 know where I'm going, just wait till I finish, 15 in '95 or '97 till the end of your tenure?
16 because the court reporter can't take down two -- 16 A. Well, they continued to be -- they
17 both of us speaking at the same time. 17 continued to be refined and -- and enhanced, and to
18 A. Okay. 18 give you -- I cannot give you specific changes that
19 Q. When you were a general manager, 19 were made, but there were -- there were enhancements
20 did you receive any training with regards to 20 and -- and changes made to how the players should be
21 identifying the symptoms of a concussed player? 21 handled with if they had received a blow to the
22 MR. SCHMIDT: Form. 22 head.
23 THE DEPONENT: No, I have not. 23 Q. But, again, you did not receive any
24 BY MR. BYRNE: 24 training during this evolut on of change; is that
25 Q. Have you ever kept a player from 25 correct?
Page 91 Page 93
1 returning to the ice because you suspected he had a 1 A. I did not receive any training.
2 concussion? 2 MR. SCHMIDT: Objection.
3 A. No, I have not. 3 BY MR. BYRNE:
4 Q. Now, we talked a little bit about 4 Q. Okay. Were there any compliance
5 the NHL policies and procedures that you think 5 procedures implemented by the NHL on the member
6 started somewhere around '95 or '97 with regard to 6 clubs?
7 the concussion management. Is that accurate? 7 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
8 A. Yes. I believe that, you know, we 8 question.
9 started to receive information from the NHL, the 9 THE DEPONENT: Can you just describe,
10 NHL PA, from our -- from our doctors, with more 10 like, "compliance."
11 information, clearer information, and some of the 11 BY MR. BYRNE:
12 protocols that we've discussed needing to be 12 Q. Yeah. Did the NHL set down these
13 implemented. 13 protocols for concussion management? Did they ever
14 Q. So you received information from 14 do any follow-up to see that there was compliance:
15 the NHL PA. Was that as a former player? 15 That each club -- and we're talking about you
16 A. No, but the -- the -- often, the 16 particularly -- your club was in compliance?
17 information would be that this is a -- this is a -- 17 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
18 a dual; this has been agreed with with the NHL PA, 18 question.
19 and the NHL are participate -- NHL PA are 19 MR. SCHMIDT: Join.
20 participating in -- in putting these protocols 20 THE DEPONENT: I don't -- I don't
21 together along with the National Hockey League. 21 remember having to report in that -- that we had
22 Q. Okay. So that came from the NHL as 22 complied, but I also know that we did comply.
23 a -- as a dual protocol, if I understood your answer 23 BY MR. BYRNE:
24 correctly. 24 Q. Are you aware of any instance where
25 MR. LUPION: Objection. 25 a concussed player was returned to play in the same

612.338.3376
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1 game? 1 there was an incident in a game, a hard body check,
2 A. No, I'm not. 2 something that I would feel was unfair and that
3 Q. Okay. Were you aware of any 3 would want the league to be aware of it.
4 penalties that could be levied on a team for their 4 Q. What type of a hard body check?
5 failure to comply with these concussion mandates 5 Isn't that part of the game?
6 from the NHL? 6 A. Some body checks are legal and

7 A. I'm not aware specifically, no. 7 acceptable and some are not.
8 Q. Did you ever have a discussion 8 Q. Wh ch ones in part cular d d you
9 yourself -- not in a group but just yourself -- with 9 have concern w th that you asked for v deo review?
10 Julie Grand regarding concussions? 10 A. I don't remember specifics, but I
11 A. No, I have not. 11 know that I did that at a period of time when games
12 Q. Did you have any personal 12 were not all televised and not all available to the
13 discussion with Bill Daly regarding concussions? 13 league, but if you wanted something reviewed, you
14 A. No, I did not. 14 would -- you would clip it out of your own game VCR
15 Q. With Gary Bettman regarding 15 and send it to the league and ask them to review it
16 concussions? 16 and give you a response.
17 A. No. 17 Q. Would it refresh your recollection
18 Q. With Dr. Meeuwisse regarding 18 if I said that all those reviews you requested were
19 concussions -- and, hopefully, I'm pronouncing his 19 specifically for shots to the head?
20 name correctly. 20 A. That wouldn't be true.
21 A. No, I haven't. 21 Q. Okay. Were any of them for shots
22 Q. Okay. I believe it's 22 to the head, Bob?
23 M-E-E-U-W-I-S-S-E. 23 A. I don't know.
24 Did you have any discussions with 24 Q. Well, why wouldn't it be true if I
25 Dr. Benson regarding concussions? 25 said it was all shots to the head but you can't
Page 95 Page 97
1 A. No, I have not. 1 recall? I'm a little confused by your answer.
2 Q. Have you ever attended any meetings 2 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to the form.
3 where any of those individuals I just named 3 MR. LUPION: Object to the form. I'm
4 discussed concussions? 4 confused by the question.
5 A. I -- concussions were discussed at 5 MR. SCHMIDT: Same as I.
6 general managers meetings, and Bill Daly and Gary 6 THE DEPONENT: I sent in v deotapes
7 Bettman would have been at those meetings. 7 whenever I felt that a player on our team had not --
8 Q. Have you ever received any league 8 had been treated unfairly and hadn't been -- a
9 reports just in general of all the member clubs 9 penalty in the game hadn't been applied and I wanted
10 regarding concussed players? 10 clarif cation from NHL hockey operat ons as to what
11 A. Not to my memory. 11 their opinion was on a specific inc dent.
12 Q. Have you ever watched a video of 12 BY MR. BYRNE:
13 part of an NHL proceeding of a player who sustained 13 Q. Would you do that via email?
14 a head -- that sustained a head shot or a head 14 A. No.
15 trauma? 15 Q. How would you do it?
16 A. No, I haven't. 16 A. Well, at the time I was doing it,
17 Q. Have you ever requested that video 17 it was with VCR tapes. After a certain point in the
18 be reviewed by anybody in the league office of any 18 development of the technology, it wasn't necessary
19 player who sustained a head shot? 19 to send things in.
20 A. On different occasions, I had sent 20 Q. No, I meant your request. Was it
21 videos to the league for review where I thought 21 in a -- was it by a letter form, was it by email?
22 supplementary discipline should be considered. 22 A. Would usually be -- at that time,
23 Q. And what were the circumstances of 23 it would be verbal, and it would be over the phone:
24 your request for supplemental discipline? 24 I'd like you to take a look at this specific
25 A. Well, it would have been where 25 incident in our game last night; I'm going to send

612.338.3376
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1 you a -- a VCR, FedEx you a VCR tape; would you take 1 include?
2 a look at it and get back to me. 2 A. I do not.
3 Q. And who would you have that 3 Q. Do you know how often those
4 conversation w th? 4 tracking systems were updated?
5 A. Whoever was operating the NHL 5 A. I don't.
6 hockey operations. 6 Q. Do you know who had access to the
7 Q. Do you have any recollect on of 7 reports that were sent on the tracking system?
8 some of those names that you would have spoken with? 8 A. I don't.
9 A. During my time, the people involved 9 Q. Do you -- does your organization
10 at the NHL were Brian Burke, Dave Nonis, Mike 10 report to the league man games lost?
11 Murphy, Colin Campbell. 11 MR. LUPION: Object to form. Which
12 Q. Shanahan? 12 organization?
13 A. No, no. 13 BY MR. BYRNE:
14 Q. Quintal? 14 Q. Either one that he was general
15 A. No. 15 manager with, Adam, Montreal or the Stars.
16 16 A. I believe so.
17 17 Q. And was that identified by a
18 18 player-by-player basis?
19 19 A. It -- it could be or it could be a
20 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with the 20 cumulative. I had spoken earlier about man games
21 NHL injury tracking system? 21 lost and recall that they were more separated
22 A. No, I'm not. 22 through different types of injury rather than
23 Q. Part of your job duties of the 23 specific players.
24 general manager, was it -- were you in charge to 24 Q. Have you ever communicated with an
25 ensure that there was compliance w th the injury 25 NHL official, that you can recall today, with
Page 99 Page 101

1 tracking system? 1 regards to a concussed player?
2 MR. LUPION: Object to form. 2 A. I do not.
3 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. 3 Q. Do you know what the -- or strike
4 THE DEPONENT: No, I don't believe I 4 that.
5 was. 5 Can you -- have you ever heard the term
6 BY MR. BYRNE: 6 "enforcer"?
7 Q. Who would have been in charge of 7 A. Yes.
8 that? 8 Q. Can you please give a defin tion of
9 A. It would have been the 9 an enforcer.

10 responsibility of our training staff. 10 A. An enforcer is a role on a hockey
11 Q. Did you oversee your training 11 team where a rugged player will be used as a -- as a
12 staff? 12 protector for some of his more skillful players and
13 A. I did. 13 try to keep him -- try to keep him from being
14 Q. So, ultimately, that would be the 14 exposed to rough play.
15 responsibility of the GM to ensure that there was 15 Q. Was his role to fight?
16 compliance? 16 A. Yes.
17 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the 17 Q. Did you have enforcers on your
18 question. 18 roster with Dallas and Montreal?
19 THE DEPONENT: It was under my 19 A. Yes.
20 responsibility. 20 Q. How many?
21 BY MR. BYRNE: 21 A. Normally, there would be one.
22 Q. Okay. Were you ever copied with 22 Q. During your role as a head coach
23 any of those reports, Bob? 23 for both teams, did you ever tap your enforcer on
24 A. Not to my recall. 24 the shoulder and tell him to go get in a fight?
25 Q. Do you know what those reports 25 A. No, I didn't.

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1 Q. Did you ever give a nod to an 1 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
2 enforcer where t was implied what you wanted him to 2 question. I don't --
3 do? 3 THE DEPONENT: I don't recall exactly
4 A. No, I didn't. 4 what I had, but I would go through games without
5 Q. What would you do if the enforcer 5 receiving head shots is what I remember one of my
6 got into a fight? 6 answers was earlier.
7 MR. LUPION: Object to the form. Are we 7 BY MR. BYRNE:
8 talking coach, GM? 8 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with NFL
9 BY MR. BYRNE: 9 football?
10 Q. Coach. 10 A. I know what it is.
11 A. Well, what would I do? The fight 11 Q. You watch it?
12 takes place, the players are penalized, they go to 12 A. Not usually.
13 the penalty box, and the game resumes, and I resume 13 Q. Are you aware of any of the rule
14 my responsibilities as coach by getting the players 14 changes to the NFL where they eliminated shots to
15 on the ice that I want. 15 the head?
16 Q. And that was an accepted pract ce 16 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
17 in the NHL? 17 question.
18 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the 18 THE DEPONENT: I'm not aware of any NFL
19 quest on. 19 rules.
20 THE DEPONENT: Yes. 20 BY MR. BYRNE:
21 BY MR. BYRNE: 21 Q. Do you believe the NFL is a
22 Q. Okay. At any time during your 22 physical game?
23 tenure as a general manager and at these general 23 A. Yes.
24 manager meetings, were votes taken w th regards to 24 MR. SCHMIDT: Do we need to do a video
25 rule changes? 25 change?
Page 103 Page 105

1 A. Yes. 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Five minutes.
2 Q. Did you ever vote to eliminate all 2 MR. BYRNE: Five minutes.
3 head shots? 3 MR. SCHMIDT: Okay.
4 A. I don't believe so. 4 BY MR. BYRNE:
5 Q. Do you believe that head shots have 5 Q. Bob, do you have any opinion --
6 a place in hockey? 6 this is your personal opinion -- if there's a
7 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. 7 difference between a head shot that was deemed legal
8 THE DEPONENT: I believe that 8 in 1997 but was deemed illegal in 2009?
9 intent onal head shots have no place in hockey. 9 A. No, I --
11 Q. Do you believe that the game can 11 MR. LUPION: Object to form.
12 still be extremely phys cal if players were hit 12 THE DEPONENT: I don't have an opinion
13 between the shoulders and the knees? 13 on that question.
14 A. I believe it's impossible to play 14 BY MR. BYRNE:
15 and separate one part of the body completely from 15 Q. Why not?
16 the body contact. 16 A. Because it's too vague. I don't
17 Q. Why is that? 17 really know what you are trying to ask me.
18 A. Because incidental contact takes 18 Q. Okay. Were any shots to the head
19 place, unintentional, incidental, and trying to work 19 legal in 1997?
20 around one half of the body or the upper half of the 20 A. No. I mean, there were -- there
21 body or the lower half of the body would just not be 21 were penalties for -- for hits to the head. It
22 a feasible, workable way to compete. 22 could be high-sticking penalty, and that same
23 Q. And, again, during your career, you 23 penalty is still in place today.
24 really didn't sustain many head shots, you sa d; is 24 Q. Okay. So there didn't need to be
25 that correct? 25 rule changes, then, with regards to head hitting if

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1 they were already in place in the -- in early 1997; 1 medium number 1. We are going off the record at
2 is that correct? 2 11:13 a.m.
3 A. Well, there are certain things that 3 -- RECESS AT 11:13 --
4 remain at least somewhat similar to the style of 4 -- RESUMING AT 11:25 --
5 play and the sport in itself twenty years ago, and 5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins medium
6 there are other things that have evolved and changed 6 number 2. We are on the record at 11:25 a.m.
7 quite a bit, and the changes of the rules is usually 7 BY MR. BYRNE:
8 a game of cat-and-mouse of the rules trying to be 8 Q. Bob, in your opinion, could the NHL
9 adjusted or refined or better defined to catch up 9 have stopped all head shots from 19 -- from your
10 with some evolution of play that's happening on the 10 entering the league in 1973 up until the end of your
11 ice. 11 tenure in the NHL?
12 Q. Were there rules in 1973 against 12 A. I don't believe so.
13 targeting the head? 13 Q. Why is that?
14 A. There were rules about 14 A. Because having certain contact with
15 intentional -- intentional hits to the head. 15 the body and sometimes the head is unavoidable in
16 Q. So why would you have voted, as a 16 normal play.
17 general manager, to change rules w th regards to 17 Q. When you first entered the league,
18 hits to the head during your tenure in the 2000s? 18 Bob, in 1973, what was deemed an illegal hit to the
19 MR. LUPION: Object to the form. 19 head?
20 MR. SCHMIDT: Join. 20 A. It could be a high stick, it could
21 THE DEPONENT: Do you know which vote 21 be an elbow, it could be a punch, it could be that
22 I'm supposed to have voted on? 22 the -- the player was struck and a boarding call
23 BY MR. BYRNE: 23 would be made, so there were a number of ways that
24 Q. Well, you attended -- we already 24 intentional or illegal hits to the head were called.
25 established you attended general managers meetings, 25 Q. Do you recall, Bob, ever voting at
Page 107 Page 109

1 and we established already that you voted on -- 1 a general managers meeting that you attended to
2 A. Issues. 2 create a new rule to -- to change any hits to the
3 Q. -- issues regarding concussions and 3 head?
4 head shots, we talked about already. 4 A. I don't.
5 A. No, we -- 5 Q. Okay. Were there -- when you
6 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. 6 played in 1973 to 1989, were there any hits to the
7 THE DEPONENT: -- we didn't. 7 head that were legal?
8 MR. SCHMIDT: One minute. At this 8 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
9 point, counselor, you are putting words on the 9 THE DEPONENT: Incidental contact with
10 record -- 10 the head. Players are at different heights on the
11 MR. BYRNE: Okay. 11 ice, and contact with a player's head and another
12 MR. SCHMIDT: -- that I believe are not 12 player's body can happen in a number of different
13 accurate, and so -- 13 ways, and those were not illegal.
14 MR. BYRNE: Okay, Chris. 14 BY MR. BYRNE:
15 MR. SCHMIDT: -- I'd ask you to be very 15 Q. Did you vote on any changes in your
16 careful, with restating his testimony, to make sure 16 role as a general manager to make what was
17 it's accurate. 17 previously a legal hit to the head now illegal?
18 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Thank you, Chris. 18 A. I don't recall voting on making any
19 MR. SCHMIDT: You're very welcome. 19 rule changes specific to hits to the head.
20 MR. BYRNE: How are we doing with tape? 20 Q. Okay. Do you recall any statistics
21 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're good for 21 regarding concussions during your tenure as a
22 another few minutes if you want to keep going. 22 general manager?
23 MR. BYRNE: Why don't we just take a 23 A. I don't.
24 break at this time and we'll let everybody regroup. 24 Q. Okay. Were you aware if there were
25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This marks the end of 25 more concussions in 2005 than there were in 2000 --

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1 excuse me, more in 2005 than in 1997? 1 A. Yes.
2 A. I'm not aware. 2 Q. Doug Risebrough?
3 Q. Bob, we previously talked about 3 A. Yes.
4 fighting. During your tenure as general manager, 4 Q. McPhee?
5 was there any discussions of taking fighting out of 5 A. Yes.
6 the NHL? 6
7 A. Fighting would get -- would get a 7
8 certain amount of discussion in meetings over my 8
9 tenure, say, from 1992 till 2010. Taking it out 9
10 completely was a -- was an issue that had a lot of 10
11 variety of opinion. Regulating it and putting in 11
12 some rules to adjust things that were happening is 12
13 usually what had happened. The NHL, the general 13 A. Well, I've said it's the first time
14 managers, the NHL PA, the players, they all had 14 I've seen this. Do you want me to read it so that I
15 input on some of those changes. 15 can answer it?
16 Q. Bob, I'd like to show you an 16 Q. Yes.
17 exhibit, and this is the one that I provided to you. 17 A. Okay. Then I need to read this,
18 It's labeled as number 1 in the list I sent to you. 18 because it's the first time I've seen it.
19 MR. SCHMIDT: If you -- do you have a 19 Okay. I'm more familiar now.
20 copy for us? 20 Q. Okay. Bob, when you were playing,
21 MR. BYRNE: Yes. 21 would you agree with these statistics, because you
22 MR. SCHMIDT: Thank you. 22 played during 70's and 80's where there was
23 MR. BYRNE: And we're going to mark this 23 bench-clearing fights?
24 as Gainey Exhibit 1, Ms. Reporter. 24 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
25 EXHIBIT NO. 1: Document Bates labeled 25 THE DEPONENT: I -- I recall
Page 111 Page 113

1 NHL0208530 to 0208532 1 bench-clearing fights. I know that they were banned
2 BY MR. BYRNE: 2 or outlawed at a certain time. I don't remember
3 Q. Bob, I'm just going to show you 3 when.
4 this exhibit. 4 BY MR. BYRNE:
5 This is one that was produced by the 5 Q. Okay. And in the 1980's was the
6 NHL, and do you recall reviewing this document? 6 highest level of fighting in the history of the
7 A. No, I don't. 7 game. There was a fight for every game played.
8 Q. You did not review this document in 8 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to --
9 your preparation for today's deposition? 9 BY MR. BYRNE:
10 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. And I ask 10 Q. Does that sound right to you?
11 you not to disclose any attorney-client privilege 11 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
12 information. 12 THE DEPONENT: I don't know.
13 THE DEPONENT: To my recollection, this 13 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Let's move on to
14 is the first time I've seen this document. 14 Exhibit No. 2. We will designate this document
15 BY MR. BYRNE: 15 Gainey Number 2.
16 Q. Were the majority of the general 16 EXHIBIT NO. 2: Letter Bates labeled
17 managers, during your tenure, former players? 17 NHL0128065 - 0128067
18 A. The majority? There was -- there 18 BY MR. BYRNE:
19 was a good number of former players who were 19 Q. Bob, have you reviewed this
20 managers. The exact number -- 20 document previously?
21 Q. Majority, more than 50 percent? 21 A. No, I haven't.
22 A. I don't know. 22 Q. I just want to direct your
23 Q. Okay. Were you aware of some of 23 attention to the very last paragraph on the fourth
24 the general managers during your tenures that -- you 24 page. This is a document that was --
25 are aware of Paul Holmgren? 25 MR. SCHMIDT: I'm sorry, the very last

612.338.3376
Page 114 Page 116

1 paragraph on the fourth page? 1 Q. Okay. And do you agree that hockey
2 MR. BYRNE: The fourth paragraph on the 2 is played under a code of rules that controls the
3 first page. 3 violence through on-ice officials and by subsequent
4 MR. SCHMIDT: Oh, the fourth paragraph 4 supplementary discipline, if any, is necessary?
5 okay. The fourth paragraph on the -- 5 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
6 BY MR. BYRNE: 6 THE DEPONENT: The NHL game on the ice
7 7 has rules, has on-ice officials, and has
8 8 supplementary discipline, so I would agree with
9 9 that.
10 10 BY MR. BYRNE:
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 MR. SCHMIDT: Mr. Gainey, I'd ask, if 15 MR. SCHMIDT: Where are you now?
16 you haven't looked at this document, just take a 16 MR. BYRNE: The very last large
17 moment and become familiar with it. 17 paragraph on page number 2 at the bottom of the
18 MR. BYRNE: I just want him to read 18 page.
19 that -- 19 MR. SCHMIDT: Well, why don't you go
20 MR. SCHMIDT: That's all you want to ask 20 ahead and at least read that paragraph --
21 him about? Read that paragraph? 21 MR. BYRNE: I just want him to read --
22 BY MR. BYRNE: 22 MR. SCHMIDT: -- and once you've read
23 Q. Just want to ask him that one 23 it, you can ask your question. It's hard to follow
24 sentence. 24 where you are at.
25 A. Okay. 25 THE DEPONENT: Paragraph 3.
Page 115 Page 117

1 1 MR. SCHMIDT: What does the paragraph
2 2 begin with, what line?
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13 Bob, are you aware of anybody who
14 14 sustained serious injury from a punch to the face?
15 15 A. No, I don't.
16 16 Q. You are not aware of any hockey
17 17 players at all who were punched in the face and
18 18 sustained serious injury?
19 19 A. Well, "serious injury" is my
20 20 problem with your question, because what is serious?
21 21 Is it a cut? Is it a broken nose? Is it a ...
22 22 Q. Let's say it's a concussion that
23 23 ends somebody's career. Are you aware of any
24 24 players, Bob, during your tenure in the league from
25 25 '73 through 2014, who sustained serious injury from

612.338.3376
Page 118 Page 120

1 a punch to the face? 1 Okay.
2 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. Subject 2 Q. Now, this was a document from Gil
3 to that, with that example, if you understand or 3 Stein. Do you know who Mr. Stein ...
4 know, please answer. 4 A. Yes.
5 THE DEPONENT: I'm not aware. 5 Q. What was his role?
6 BY MR. BYRNE: 6 A. He was interim president or
7 Q. You're not aware of any players who 7 commissioner of the NHL for a period of time.
8 were punched and their career ended on that last 8
9 fight? 9
10 A. No, I'm not. 10
11 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Let's turn to 11
12 document number 3. We will mark this as Gainey 12
13 Exhibit 3. 13
14 EXHIBIT NO. 3: Letter Bates labeled 14
15 NHL0011457 15
16 BY MR. BYRNE: 16
17 Q. Have you seen this document before 17 Q. Do you recall that rule being
18 today, Mr. Gainey? 18 implemented while you were a coach?
19 A. Yes, I have. 19 A. No, I don't.
20 Q. Okay. So you have read it? 20 Q. As a role -- as your role as a head
21 A. Yes, I have. 21 coach, are you obligated to know the rules of the
22 22 game?
23 23 A. Yes, I am.
24 24 Q. Was rule 54 in effect when you
25 25 coached?
Page 119 Page 121

1 1 A. Apparently, it was, yes.
2 2 Q. Okay. I'd like to draw your
3 3 attent on to what's on top of the page 51 in that
4 4 document, Bob.
5 5 MR. SCHMIDT: At what page are you? I'm
6 6 sorry?
7 7 MR. BYRNE: Page -- you want the Bates
8 8 number? Okay. It would be NHL 012339.
9 9 MR. SCHMIDT: 39?
10 10
11 11
12 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Let's move on to 12
13 exhibit -- the next exhib t. We will mark this as 13
14 Gainey 4. 14
15 EXHIBIT NO. 4: Fax memorandum Bates labeled 15
16 NHL012334 - 012340 16
17 BY MR. BYRNE: 17
18 Q. Have you read this document before 18
19 today, Mr. Gainey? 19
20 A. I have seen this document, yes. I 20
21 haven't read it in entirety or gone through it. 21
22 Q. Did you read the sect on on 22
23 rule 54? 23
24 A. I'll read it right now to refresh 24
25 myself. 25

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Page 122 Page 124

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15 BY MR. BYRNE:
16 16 Q. But premeditated fights still exist
17 17 today in hockey; is that accurate, Bob?
18 18 A. Premeditated fights exist and they
19 19 are penalized.
20 20 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Let's go to -- we'll
21 21 identify this next one as Gainey Exhibit 5.
22 22 EXHIBIT NO. 5: Document Bates labeled
23 23 NHL0015999 - 0016001
24 24 BY MR. BYRNE:
25 25 Q. Bob, do you recall reviewing this
Page 123 Page 125

1 1 document before today?
2 2 A. No, I don't.
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 Q. What's your understanding of 9
10 "premeditated"? What does that mean? 10
11 A. Premeditated would be a plan, 11
12 previous plan. 12
13 Q. Where -- would it be normally two 13
14 enforcers be sent on the ce and they would drop 14
15 their gloves immediately? 15
17 THE DEPONENT: Well, I mean, 17
18 premed tated -- you are asking about a premed tated 18
19 fight? 19
20 BY MR. BYRNE: 20
21 Q. Yes. 21
22 A. Yeah. A premeditated fight would 22
23 be someone who had decided that he was going to have 23
24 a fight before a situation arise (sic) that may 24
25 provoke him to have a fight. 25

612.338.3376
Page 126 Page 128

1 1 enforced would have ended frustration?
2 2 A. I think --
3 3 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. Go ahead.
4 4 THE DEPONENT: I think the style of play
5 5 and tactics, team tactics, individual tactics, are
6 6 always in motion and that the rules which are
7 7 addressing one time need to be in motion with the
8 8 changes and the evolution of the play.
9 9 MR. BYRNE: Okay. We'll move on to what
10 10 we'll next mark as Exhibit -- or Gainey Exhibit
11 11 No. 6.
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 Q. With rules in place that you 17
18 already stated, how come these tact cs were still 18
19 being used by players and continually being 19
20 discussed when you already had enforce -- when you 20
21 already had rules that could be enforced? 21
22 A. Well -- 22
23 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the 23
24 quest on. 24
25 THE DEPONENT: Tactic -- tactics change 25
Page 127 Page 129

1 and they evolve. At one time, it was -- it was a 1
2 tactic that a player would not have the palm in the 2
3 glove of his glove so that he could reach out and 3
4 use his hand to grab and hold somebody undetected to 4
5 the -- to the on-ice officials. So that tactic was 5
6 discovered, and -- and it was mandated that all 6
7 players had to have full palms in their gloves. 7
8 So tactics -- tactics arrive and tactics 8
9 are used until they're -- they're recognized, 9
10 discussed, and go through the process of finally 10
11 having them either brought down or deemed to be 11
12 penalties. 12
13 Another -- another one that was not a 13
14 tactic while I was a player but became a tactic was 14
15 the defending player in front of the net simply 15
16 grabbing onto the offensive player's stick, and it 16
17 takes very little power or strength just to hold 17
18 onto the other player's stick, and it takes an 18
19 enormous amount of energy to try to get it free, and 19
20 once that tactic was exposed and it was seen that it 20
21 was becoming used more often, causing frustration, I 21
22 believe there's a penalty for holding the stick. 22
23 Q. Now, up through the time you ended 23
24 your playing career, do you believe there was 24
25 adequate rules in place that if they were properly 25

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Page 130 Page 132

1 1 A. At that time, Mr. Armstrong was my
2 2 assistant.
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8 Q. And you reviewed this already,
9 9 correct?
10 10 A. Yes, I have.
11 11 Q. Okay. Do you recall who Ms. Kate
12 12 Jones is?
13 13 A. I don't.
14 14 Q. Okay. In this, it says:
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 131 Page 133

1 1
2 BY MR. BYRNE: 2
3 Q. Okay. I'd like to direct your 3
4 attention to -- we are next going to -- we are going 4
5 to be done with that one, Bob. 5
6 A. Move on with this one. Okay. 6
7 MR. BYRNE: We're going to call it 7
8 Gainey Exhibit 7. 8
9 EXHIBIT NO. 7: Document Bates labeled 9
10 NHL0218166 to 0218172 10
11 BY MR. BYRNE: 11
12 Q. Bob, do you recall reviewing this 12
13 document prior to the deposition today? 13
14 A. Yes. I believe I saw this document 14
15 in my preparation. 15
16 Q. Do you recall this document during 16
17 the time you were general manager? 17
18 A. I don't recall it specifically, no. 18
19 Q. Okay. This was a minutes of a 19
20 meeting of the GMs that took place on June 5th, 20
21 1997, in Detroit, Michigan, and you will see your 21
22 name as a GM in attendance along with Doug Armstrong 22
23 for the Stars? 23
24 A. Yes. 24
25 Q. Who is Mr. Armstrong? 25

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Page 134 Page 136

1 1 Do you recall reading that paragraph?
2 2 MR. SCHMIDT: You can take a moment and
3 3 read it, please.
4 4 THE DEPONENT: If I could just review it
5 5 for a second, yeah.
6 6 BY MR. BYRNE:
7 7 Q. Certainly.
8 8 A. Okay.
9 9 Q. Oh, I'm sorry, Bob.
10 10 A. Okay. Sorry.
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 135 Page 137

1 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Let's go ahead and 1
2 move on to what we will mark as Gainey Exhibit 8. 2
3 EXHIBIT NO. 8: Minutes of GM Meeting, June 3
4 16, 1998 Bates labeled NHL0219196 to 0219206 4
5 BY MR. BYRNE: 5
6 Q. Bob, d d you review this document 6
7 before the deposition today? 7
8 A. Yes, I believe so. 8
9 Q. Do you recall getting this document 9
10 while you were general manager back in 1998? 10
11 A. I don't specifically recall, but I 11
12 know that we received the minutes of the meetings at 12
13 our office sometime after the meeting had taken 13
14 place. 14
15 Q. And this June 16, 1989, meeting in 15
16 Washington, D.C., you attended. Your name is on the 16
17 attendee list. You saw that? 17
18 A. Yes. 18
19 Q. Okay. I'd like to direct your 19
20 attention to page 4 of the document, wh ch would be 20
21 NHL 0219200, Chris. 21
22 MR. SCHMIDT: Okay. 22
23 BY MR. BYRNE: 23
24 Q. And direct your attent on to 24
25 paragraph F, Bob. 25

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Page 138 Page 140

1 1
2 2 BY MR. BYRNE:
3 3 Q. I'm just asking, Mr. Gainey, to the
4 4 best your knowledge, should an NHL player who
5 5 sustains a concussion be treated any differently for
6 6 a concussion than any other member of society?
7 7 THE DEPONENT: I don't have the --
8 8 MR. LUPION: Same objection.
9 9 THE DEPONENT: -- the ability to judge
10 10 one group of people with another group of people on
11 11 a subject that I'm not knowledgeable on.
12 12 BY MR. BYRNE:
13 Q. Are these the type of acts that we 13 Q. When you were in juniors, did you
14 discussed earlier that lead to player frustration? 14 ever sustain a concussion?
15 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the 15 A. Not to my knowledge.
16 question. 16 Q. When you were in juniors, did you
17 THE DEPONENT: These seem to be the 17 ever see any of your teammates sustain a concussion?
18 kinds of acts that could lead to injury. 18 A. Not to my knowledge.
19 BY MR. BYRNE: 19 Q. When you were a youth, did you ever
20 Q. Okay. When new rules are enacted, 20 observe any of your friends or family members
21 do they change player behaviour? 21 sustain a concussion?
22 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to the form of the 22 A. Not to my knowledge.
23 question. 23 Q. Okay. When you were a youth, were
24 THE DEPONENT: Yes. 24 you aware that concussions were treated with bed
25 25 rest and to make sure somebody did not fall asleep?
Page 139 Page 141

2 Q. Okay. So if fighting could have 2 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.

3 been stopped with rule enforcement or new rules, 3 BY MR. BYRNE:
4 would you agree with that? 4 Q. Were you aware of that?
5 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the 5 A. When I was a youth, no.
6 question. 6 Q. Okay. Bob, let's move on to page 6
7 THE DEPONENT: Fighting has always been 7 of that document, NHL 0219202, paragraph M,
8 a part of the game in some fashion, and the rules 8 "Fisticuffs." And t states:
9 have been changed to try to eliminate the parts that 9
10 don't fit into how fighting is accepted in the NHL. 10
11 BY MR. BYRNE: 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 142 Page 144

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14 Q. Do you know if the doctors under
15 15 your charge made full compliance with the mandatory
16 MR. BYRNE: Okay. We'll move on to 16 baseline testing?
17 Gainey Exhibit 9. 17 A. I believe they did.
18 EXHIBIT NO. 9: Memorandum Bates labeled 18 Q. And do you know who would maintain
19 NHL0224686 to 0224702 19 custody of those records?
20 BY MR. BYRNE: 20 A. I do not.
21 Q. Do you recall reading this exhibit, 21 Q. Now, I know we discussed earlier
22 Bob? It's a memorandum to all general managers from 22 today, Bob, about if you ever saw the baseline test,
23 Colin Campbell and Claude -- my pronunciation of 23 and you indicated you didn't.
24 French names -- 24 A. I did not, no.
25 A. Just call him "Claude." 25 Q. Do you know where they were stored
Page 143 Page 145

1 Q. -- is not very good, but is it 1 while you were a GM for the Stars?
2 Loiselle? 2 A. I don't know where they were
3 A. It's pronounced Loiselle. 3 stored.
4 Q. Loiselle. Thank you. Dated 4 Q. Would you have discussions with
5 September 3rd, 1998. Do you recall reading this 5 your doctor if a player had a concussion and that
6 document prior to the deposition today? 6 you would want to go back and look at his baseline
7 A. I don't think I have seen this 7 test?
8 document before. 8 A. Well, I would think that -- I think
9 MR. SCHMIDT: And I would just like to 9 that the -- the information was kept in a place
10 state for the record there seems to be several 10 where it could be used, and the place where it could
11 different documents, at least in my copy. I don't 11 be used was in the -- in the team environment where
12 know if that's what the intent was. 12 the doctor could access it when he needed it to make
13 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Well, let's just 13 the judgement that the baseline testing provided.
14 direct Mr. Gainey's attention to page 3, NHL 14 Q. Do you know if the baseline testing
15 0224688, Chris. 15 results were copied to the NHL league office or
16 MR. SCHMIDT: Okay. 16 anybody in the concussion working program or group,
17 THE DEPONENT: 688. Okay. 17 whatever t was called, back in 1998?
18 BY MR. BYRNE: 18 A. I don't know that.
19 19 Q. Okay. Further down in the document
20 20 a few more pages, Bob, and I will direct your
21 21 attention to 0224696, Chris.
22 22 MR. SCHMIDT: Thank you.
23 23 BY MR. BYRNE:
24 24 Q. It's ent tled "Memorandum,"
25 25 "Supplementary Discipline" from Colin Campbell to

612.338.3376
Page 146 Page 148

1 all GMs, coaches, and players. Do you recall 1 A. Well --
2 reading this document before today? 2 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
3 A. Yes. 3 THE DEPONENT: The -- the idea that you
4 Q. And did you recall getting this 4 cannot touch a certain part of the other player's
5 document in your capacity of a GM? 5 body ever is just un -- unattainable, and often,
6 A. I don't recall it specifically, but 6 when it -- when a rule is really -- when it just
7 I expect I received it. 7 doesn't fit and it can't be called, the referees do
8 Q. And, again, this is now saying 8 not apply it.
9 there is a: 9 This is an attempt to weed out the
10 10 places where intent to deliver a blow to the head is
11 11 not the penalty that it used to be -- it's the
12 12 penalty that it used to be -- and it's a review and
13 13 potential supplementary discipline.
14 14 BY MR. BYRNE:
15 15 Q. As a voting GM member, could you
16 16 have taken an action to educate the referees on how
17 17 to interpret any hits -- or, excuse me, in the ban
18 18 of head hits, could that have been done with
19 19 education with the referees?
20 20 MR. LUPION: Object -- object to the
21 21 form.
22 22 THE DEPONENT: Educating the referees
23 23 really wasn't in my responsibility.
24 24 BY MR. BYRNE:
25 25 Q. No. I was asking you as a member
Page 147 Page 149

1 1 of the general managers where you would vote to
2 2 implement rule changes and vote to implement policy,
3 3 correct?
5 5 THE DEPONENT: Yes, we would vote to
6 6 implement rule changes.
7 7 BY MR. BYRNE:
8 8 Q. Couldn't one of those policies have
9 9 been into educating and enforcing the officials to
10 10 make those calls?
12 12 THE DEPONENT: I think that that
13 13 responsibility fell under the hockey operations
14 14 department. Even in this case where there is a
15 15 change and that the referees need to be -- it needs
16 16 to be described to them, it needs to be understood
17 17 by them, it needs to have clear examples so that
18 18 they can -- they can apply it properly in the way
19 19 that it has been presented to -- to the players, to
20 20 the coaches and managers, so that, as close as
21 21 possible, everybody understands what the levels are
22 22 and what the punishment is beforehand.
24 Q. Wouldn't a simple ban of all head 24 Q. Now, this was sent to you as a
25 hits just been the easiest remedy, Bob? 25 memorandum from the league. You were in charge. We

612.338.3376
Page 150 Page 152

1 already went through your duties as a general 1
2 manager. How did you enforce this on behalf of the 2
3 Dallas Stars? 3
5 THE DEPONENT: Well, this -- this 5
6 memorandum was -- this memorandum was sent to me, 6
7 and, commonly, we would -- we would be instructed to 7
8 either post these or have the players review them 8
9 but make sure that the informat on passed to people 9
10 who needed to use t. 10
11 BY MR. BYRNE: 11
12 Q. How did you ensure that was done in 12
13 your charge as GM? 13
14 A. Well, there were -- there were 14
15 different ways, but the common way was that, at some 15
16 point, changes in the -- any changes in -- at the 16
17 beginning of the season would be reviewed with the 17
18 players in general, and that specific things that 18
19 could affect their job or their pay or their 19
20 livelihood would be posted in the locker room in a 20
21 place where it would be available for them. 21
22 Q. Okay. So then it would be just up 22
23 to the player to find t? 23
24 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. Misstates 24
25 the witness's testimony. 25
Page 151 Page 153

1 THE DEPONENT: Well, I think that I've 1
2 said that this kind of thing would be verbally 2
3 presented to the players. 3
4 BY MR. BYRNE: 4
5 Q. Okay. And did you have to do any 5
6 followup to the league to let them know that their 6
7 directive was delivered to your team and that you 7
8 would be enforcing it? 8
10 THE DEPONENT: In this case, I don't see 10
11 any indication from the league that I need to 11
12 respond to them in that way. 12
13 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Why don't we just do 13
14 one more exhibit and then we'll break for lunch. Is 14
15 that fine with everybody? 15
16 MR. SCHMIDT: That's acceptable. 16
17 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Let's go to what we 17
18 will mark as Gainey Exhibit 10. 18
19 EXHIBIT NO. 10: Memorandum Sept. 17, 2001, 19
20 Bates labeled NHL0579440 to 0579441 20
21 BY MR. BYRNE: 21
22 Q. Do you recall seeing this document 22
23 before today, Bob? 23
24 A. No, I haven't. 24
25 25

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1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 BY MR. BYRNE: 5
6 Q. Okay. Just direct you to -- that's 6
7 it. That's the only question I have on that 7
8 document, so why don't we -- we take 30 or 45 8
9 minutes? 9
10 MR. SCHMIDT: I think 30 minutes is 10
11 going to be fine. 11
12 MR. BYRNE: Say one o'clock? 12
13 MR. SCHMIDT: One o'clock. Let's do it. 13
14 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We going off the 14
15 record. The time is 12:26 p.m. 15
16 -- RECESS AT 12:26 -- 16
17 -- RESUMING AT 1:05 -- 17
18 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the 18
19 record. The time is 1:05 p.m. 19
20 BY MR. BYRNE: 20
21 Q. Mr. Gainey, or, Bob -- excuse me -- 21
22 I'd like to now discuss with you what we are going 22
23 to label as Gainey Exhibit No. 11. 23
24 EXHIBIT NO. 11: NHL Injury Summary 24
25 2001-2002, Bates labeled NHL0221484 to 25
Page 155 Page 157

1 0221508 1
2 BY MR. BYRNE: 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12 Q. Okay. Now, Bob, with all the rule
13 13 changes that were in place that we've just gone
14 14 through up through the 2001 season, wouldn't you
15 15 expect there to be a reduction in concussions if
16 16 these rules were being enforced and implemented?
18 18 THE DEPONENT: I think the -- the
19 19 concussions continued to be -- to be more frequent,
20 20 and I don't have an answer as to why that is.
21 21 The -- some of the protocols that were put in place
22 22 was to address the fact that they were becoming more
23 23 frequent and that they were recognized, and as the
24 24 medical staffs and the -- and the safety staff
25 25 studied them, they continued to work towards making

612.338.3376
Page 158 Page 160

1 it safer and safer for the players. 1
2 BY MR. BYRNE: 2
3 Q. Bob, did you feel that the 3
4 concussions were a problem -- and this would be 4
5 during your tenure with the Dallas Stars up through 5 Q. Bob, as your role as a general
6 the date of this report. Did you see concussions as 6 manager, would that include rink safety?
7 a problem with the Stars? 7 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
8 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. During 8 quest on.
9 the entire time period or a specific time period? 9 THE DEPONENT: Player safety.
11 Q. Actually, I believe I said, maybe 11 Q. That would -- would that encompass
12 softly, up through the date of this report during 12 the rink?
13 his tenure as the GM of the Stars, which would have 13 A. The environment, yes.
14 been 2001-2002 regular season. 14 Q. The surface of the ice?
15 A. Well, beginning back in -- in the 15 A. Yes.
16 '90s, it started to come up more often in -- in 16 Q. The glass?
17 information between the league, between doctors. 17 A. Yes.
18 Recommendations had been given, bench-line or 18 Q. And nobody ever made you aware of
19 baseline testing had been put in place, so it was 19 these statistics until today?
20 a -- it was a concern. It was a reality that was on 20 A. Not the statistics as -- per se,
21 the rise. 21 but there was a change in arenas. There was arenas
22 Q. And up to this point in 2001-2002, 22 being built. There was a change in the types of
23 were you aware of any players being given warnings 23 materials that were being used on the boards and the
24 of long-term neurodegenerative disease as a result 24 glass, and there was, over time, an understanding
25 of this head trauma? 25 that some of the them were rigid and too difficult
Page 159 Page 161

1 A. I'm not aware of players being 1 on the players' bodies, but did I understand these
2 given information on any of the subjects. 2 specific percentages or details? I wasn't aware of
3 3 that.
4 4 Q. Do you find them to be a little
5 5 disturbing about the increased risk of concussion
6 6 and head injury?
7 7 MR. SCHMIDT: Objection.
8 8 THE DEPONENT: Anything that, you know,
9 9 would relate the boards being too rigid, the glass
10 10 being too hard, the ice being unfit were all areas
11 11 of ongoing work to improve the safety, and once it
12 12 was established that these kinds of things were a
13 13 problem, then changes were made.
14 14 BY MR. BYRNE:
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Thank you. We will
21 21 move on to the next exhibit marked Gainey 12, I
22 22 believe we are on.
23 23 EXHIBIT NO. 12: NHL Concussion Analysis
24 24 Preliminary Report Bates labeled NHL0231693
25 25 to 0231703

612.338.3376
Page 162 Page 164

1 BY MR. BYRNE: 1
2 Q. Bob, have you seen this report from 2
3 the National Hockey League's Concussion Analysis '97 3
4 Through 2002 Season Preliminary Report? 4
5 A. No, I -- I don't believe I have. 5 Q. And we discussed earlier that these
6 Q. So you did not review this before 6 body parts were already prohibited by rules from
7 today? 7 being hit to the head, correct?
8 A. Let me go past the opening page. 8 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
9 No, I haven't seen this. 9 THE DEPONENT: Yes, there was -- there
10 10 was penalties for illegal hits to the head.
11 11 BY MR. BYRNE:
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 163 Page 165

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5 Q. So included in the legal context
6 6 would be fisticuffs, correct?
7 7 A. I wouldn't think so.
8 8 Q. Why, Bob?
9 9 A. Because fist and glove are included
10 10 in the hits by the elbow, forearm, fist, glove.
11 11 Q. Is fighting considered legal?
12 12 A. Fighting is not considered legal.
13 13 MR. BYRNE: Okay. And then moving on to
14 14 the next document, Bob. We'll call this Gainey --
15 15 mark it as Gainey 13.
16 16 EXHIBIT NO. 13: Memorandum Bates labeled
17 17 NHL0117757 to 0117758
18 18 BY MR. BYRNE:
19 19 Q. Have you seen this document before
20 20 today?
21 21 A. I don't believe I have, no.
22 22 Q. I'm really only going to question
23 23 you about page 1, so if you want to just take a
24 24 moment to review page 1.
25 25 MR. SCHMIDT: Can you take a look at the

612.338.3376
Page 166 Page 168

1 second page too, just to ... 1
2 We're ready. 2 Did Dave ever attend any physician
3 BY MR. BYRNE: 3 meetings, team physician meetings, with the Dallas
4 Q. Okay. Bob, do you know who Dave 4 Stars that are you aware of?
5 Dryden is? 5 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form, lack of
6 A. Yes. 6 foundation.
7 Q. Who is he? 7 THE DEPONENT: Dave never attended
8 A. Dave is a former NHL player. 8 any -- any meetings specifically with the Dallas
9 Q. And as of June 19th, the date of 9 Stars.
10 this memorandum, do you know what his job capacity 10 BY MR. BYRNE:
11 was? 11 Q. Okay. Now, up through 2003, now,
12 A. Dave came into the work in the NHL 12 the date of this memo, and we started this
13 in a -- in a capacity to help to monitor and reduce 13 concussion discussion and baseline testing between
14 the goaltender equipment. I don't know what his 14 '97 and the date of this, what is your understanding
15 title was or if he had a specific title. And at 15 has been done with the data?
16 some point, his -- his tenure in that committee 16 A. Well, my understanding is -- is not
17 transitioned over into a safety committee. 17 clear. My understanding, the data was kept and
18 Q. Okay. 18 stored and studied.
19 A. I'm not sure what his title is. It 19 Q. Okay. Was it ever discussed with
20 says "Chairman," perhaps, in here somewhere. 20 you at a general managers meeting up through 2003
21 Q. Dave writes in here: 21 what the data meant?
22 22 A. Well, it was never discussed
23 23 directly with me. It has come up in different
24 24 pieces of information you've handed me that, once
25 25 people like these doctors on this committee had
Page 167 Page 169

1 1 analyzed it and come up with their -- their
2 2 recommendations, that's when it would come in to the
3 3 general managers or to me.
4 4 Q. We have already discussed some of
5 Q. Just to yourself, your own opinion, 5 these documents you had never seen before. Would it
6 do you believe that the number of concussions during 6 be fair to say that you were not kept informed by
7 your time in the NHL, from '73 through the date of 7 the NHL of all these implementat ons in the rules?
8 this, 2003, that the number of concussions was not a 8 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
9 medical issue but a focus on rules issue? 9 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to the form.
10 A. We're talking about a span of 40 10 THE DEPONENT: No, I think that the
11 years, and I think I'm not comfortable making a 11 relevant people in my organization were kept
12 comment on how things were considered 40 years or 30 12 informed. The trainers were kept informed, the
13 years or 20 years previously. At this time, 13 doctors were kept in informed. I was informed. D d
14 concussions have definitely risen up on the screen 14 I understand every memo that came through every
15 as a problem, as an increased problem, and through 15 office that I was responsible for? I d dn't see
16 study and committees and safety committees, they 16 every memo. I had people in place that I hired, I
17 continue to whittle away at finding how to better 17 trusted, I had conf dence in, and when there would
18 deal with them, either preparation or post-injury, 18 be something that needed to be discussed or
19 to -- to understand them and to address them. 19 clarified or something needed to be done with it and
20 Q. Okay. Now, Dave writes: 20 I needed to be called, I would be informed.
21 21 BY MR. BYRNE:
22 22 Q. Okay. When you were employed by
23 23 the Stars, who was the owner?
24 24 A. Initially, the owner of the Dallas
25 25 Stars when we moved there in 1995 was a Mr. Norman

612.338.3376
Page 170 Page 172

1 Green, and shortly afterwards, ownership was taken 1 BY MR. BYRNE:
2 over by -- I don't know if it was the person in 2 Q. Sure. Let's go to 135344. I
3 particular specifically owned the team. Tom Hicks 3 believe it should be the next page, Bob, or --
4 was the ... 4 MR. SCHMIDT: All right. Why don't you
5 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Like to move on to 5 read that, then.
6 the next exhib t. We will call t Gainey 14. 6 THE DEPONENT: Okay.
7 EXHIBIT NO. 14: Fax Bates labeled NHL 7 BY MR. BYRNE:
8 1353432 to 1353444 8
9 BY MR. BYRNE: 9
10 Q. Have you seen this document before 10
11 today, Bob? 11
12 A. I don't believe so. 12
13 Q. Okay. What this is is -- is 13
14 documents that have been put together w th a 14
15 question by the owner of the Los Angeles Kings, 15
16 Phillip Anschutz. Do you know Mr. Anschutz? 16
17 A. I know who he is. 17
18 Q. Have you ever met him personally? 18
19 A. I don't believe so. 19 In -- did your club have an issue of
20 Q. Okay. Just know him by reputation? 20 concussions costing your owners a lot of money?
21 A. Just know the name. 21 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
22 22 question.
23 23 THE DEPONENT: Any time a player is
24 24 injured, it could be measured in money.
25 25
Page 171 Page 173

1 1 BY MR. BYRNE:
2 2 Q. Okay. And that's a concern for
3 3 owners?
4 4 A. The NHL is run as a business.
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 A. Okay. 10
11 Q. -- or see it prior to this 11
12 deposition. 12
13 MR. LUPION: I'm going to move to strike 13
14 that speech. There was no question in there. It 14
15 was a counsel's characterization of what the 15
16 document stated. Just ... 16
17 MR. SCHMIDT: I will also note this is, 17
18 like, twenty pages of materials in the exhibit. Is 18
19 there -- I agree there's a need to have the witness 19
20 get familiar with the document, but is there a part 20
21 you want to direct him to? 21
22 MR. BYRNE: Sure. 22
23 MR. SCHMIDT: And then -- then maybe he 23
24 can review that part. Just trying to streamline 24
25 this a little bit. 25

612.338.3376
Page 174 Page 176

1 1 A. It rings a bell. If you told me
2 2 what those three letters stood for, I might.
3 3 Q. Well, on a guess, that it's
4 4 "temporary total disability."
5 5 A. "Temporary total disability."
6 6 Okay.
7 7 Q. Does that ring a bell?
8 8 A. I don't recognize it in those
9 9 terms, but I recognize that there was a policy in
10 10 place; if the player was going to be unavailable to
11 11 his team for an extended period of time, that the
12 12 team could then apply for this insurance to be
13 13 activated.
14 14 Q. Was that ever discussed at the
15 15 general managers meetings that you attended?
16 16 A. I don't recall specific discussions
17 17 on it.
18 18 Q. Do you recall Mr. Daly giving
19 19 presentations about the TTD program at general
20 20 managers meeting?
21 21 A. I don't.
22 22 Q. Do you recall any discussions up
23 23 through 2003 at the general managers meeting that
24 24 concussions are now becoming a serious concern for
25 25 owners in terms of cost of money?
Page 175 Page 177

1 1 A. I don't remember hearing it
2 2 specifically discussed in those terms.
3 3 MR. BYRNE: I'd like to go next to
4 4 the -- it will be our 17, a letter from Tom
5 5 Golisano. And this, we're going to mark as
6 6 Gainey 15.
7 7 EXHIBIT NO. 15: E-mail and attachment Bates
8 8 labeled NHL0442079 to 0442081
9 9 BY MR. BYRNE:
10 10 Q. Do you know the name Tom Golisano,
11 11 if I'm pronouncing it correctly?
12 12 A. Tom Golisano?
13 13 Q. I'm pronouncing it correctly?
14 14 A. Yeah. No, I don't recognize it.
15 15 Q. I believe he may have been in
16 16 ownership of the Buffalo Sabres at one time?
17 17 A. Oh, okay.
18 18 Q. Did you see this document prior to
19 19 the deposition?
20 20 A. I don't believe I've seen this
21 21 document. Does it pertain to Mr. Golisano?
22 22 Q. No, it's a letter from Mr. Golisano
23 23 to Gary Bettman dated February 24th, 2007. I was
24 24 just curious if you reviewed this document prior to
25 Q. Are you aware of the TTD program? 25 the deposition today.

612.338.3376
Page 178 Page 180

1 A. No. 1
2 Q. I just ask you to look at the 2
3 document, particular attention to the first 3
4 sentence, the fourth paragraph on the first page, 4
5 and, particularly, the last paragraph on the first 5
6 page. 6
7 A. The first sentence meaning the one 7
8 under "John"? 8
9 Q. The one under "Dear Gary." Forgive 9
10 me if I did not put -- if I did not read the Bates 10
11 number 0442080. I apologize. 11 MR. SCHMIDT: 15.
12 A. Thank you. Okay. I'm on the wrong 12 MR. CASHMAN: 16 is the next one.
13 page. Okay. 13 MR. BYRNE: 16? This will be --
14 Q. That's my fault, Mr. Gainey; I did 14 MR. SCHMIDT: We need to stop. We need
15 not give you the Bates number. 15 an exhibit number -- label for this one.
16 A. I should have turned the page. 16 MR. BYRNE: Oh, we missed --
17 MR. SCHMIDT: And I recommend you just 17 MR. CASHMAN: No, the one -- the witness
18 read the document at this point. 18 may have two.
19 THE DEPONENT: Okay. 19 MR. SCHMIDT: Oh, was there one on
20 BY MR. BYRNE: 20 there? I'm sorry. Oh, there's one. Okay.
21 21 EXHIBIT NO. 16: E-mail Bates labeled
22 22 NHL0026287 to 0026288
23 23 BY MR. BYRNE:
24 24 Q. Bob, the next one I'm going to show
25 25 you we labeled as Gainey 16. And this is yet
Page 179 Page 181

1 1 another email correspondence from an owner named
2 2 Geoff Molson. Are you aware of Mr. Molson?
3 3 A. Yes, I am.
4 4 Q. Was he your employer at one time?
5 5 A. No, he wasn't.
6 6 Q. You didn't work for him at -- when
7 7 you were at the --
8 8 A. Well, I suppose as a consultant I
9 9 was under -- in his employment, not as a manager.
10 10 Q. Okay. Have you seen this document
11 11 prior to today?
12 12 A. No, I have not.
13 13 Q. Okay. If you could read just the
14 14 email exchange. It's not very long. And just let
15 15 me know when you have.
16 16 A. Okay.
17 17 Okay.
18 18 Q. Did you read the second page, Bob?
19 19 A. The second page? No.
20 20 Q. That first sentence on the second
21 21 page is also -- I'm going to ask you about.
22 22 A. Okay.
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 182 Page 184

1 1 pronouncing that correctly. Do you know
2 2 Mr. Cigarran?
3 3 A. I don't know Mr. Cigarran.
4 4 Q. Do you know what team he owns?
5 5 A. I don't recognize his name, no.
6 6 Q. Okay. I believe he owns the
7 7 Washington Capitals, if I'm stating this correctly.
8 8 A. Predators.
9 9 Q. Predators. Excuse me, the
10 10 Predators. See, I didn't state it correctly.
11 11 A. The Nashville Predators.
12 12 Q. Nashville Predators.
13 13 I just want to -- have you seen this
14 14 document before today?
15 15 A. No, I haven't.
16 16 Q. It's just an email exchange. If
17 17 you want to just take a few moments and review it.
18 18 It's dated October 11th, 2011.
19 19 A. Okay.
20 20 Q. Okay. The first paragraph of
21 21 Mr. Cigarran's email dated October 11th states:
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 183 Page 185

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Let's go to the last 19
20 one. I believe this is Gainey number 17. 20
21 EXHIBIT NO. 17: E-mail Bates labeled 21
22 NHL0092172 to 0092173 22
23 BY MR. BYRNE: 23
24 Q. And this is a letter or email 24
25 exchange with an owner named Tom Cigarran, if I'm 25

612.338.3376
Page 186 Page 188

1 1 and 4, Mr. Kane writes:
2 2
3 3
4 BY MR. BYRNE: 4
5 Q. Okay. And you would be the last 5
6 league, the National Hockey League, to take a 6
7 position to eliminate any hits to the head; is that 7
8 accurate? 8
10 THE DEPONENT: I'm not aware if that's 10
11 accurate. I don't follow other leagues, and I'm not 11
12 aware of what the rules are in all other leagues, 12
13 other sports. 13
14 BY MR. BYRNE: 14
15 Q. Now, up through your last board of 15
16 governors meeting, again, was this discussed, other 16
17 leagues, in eliminating head hits in the NHL, being 17
18 the last to do so? 18
19 A. Not in my memory. 19
20 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Now, we can move on 20
21 with that one. Next, Bob, is Gainey number 18. 21
23 NHL0069865 to 0069866 23
24 BY MR. BYRNE: 24
25 Q. This is an email dated 9/9/05 from 25
Page 187 Page 189

1 Terry Kane. Do you know who Terry Kane is? 1
2 A. I -- I don't believe I do. 2
3 Q. It's an email. It looks like a big 3
4 string here with Julie Grand, Jim Gregory, Kris 4
5 King, Dave Dryden. Do you know those names? 5
6 A. Yes. 6
7 Q. Are they all in the NHL executive 7
8 office, those few names I did list? 8
10 THE DEPONENT: I see, named here, from 10
11 the NHL offices, I see names here from NHL 11
12 officials, I see names from NHL PA, I see doctors, I 12
13 see general managers, I see I think trainers. 13
14 BY MR. BYRNE: 14
15 Q. Okay. Have you seen this document 15
16 before today? 16
17 A. No, I don't believe I have. 17
18 Q. Okay. I would just like you to 18
19 scan the document, paying particular attention to 19
20 the -- two of the last three paragraphs. Not the 20
21 large paragraph in the middle. This is -- one, two, 21
22 three, four -- five paragraphs, numbers 3 and 4, 22
23 please. 23
24 A. Okay. 24
25 Q. Going down to those paragraphs 3 25

612.338.3376
Page 190 Page 192

1 1 BY MR. BYRNE:
2 2 Q. This is an email exchange between
3 3 various people regarding comments by Kerry Fraser.
4 4 Do you know who Kerry Fraser is?
5 5 A. Yes, I do.
6 6 Q. And it also includes Gary Bettman
7 7 and Bill Daly, and obviously you know who they are,
8 Q. Were there any directives put in 8 correct?
9 place to not to disagree with any league directives 9 A. Yes.
10 or any memos issued? 10 Q. Okay. Have you seen this document
11 MR. SCHMIDT: Objection. 11 before?
12 THE DEPONENT: Not that I'm aware of. 12 A. Yes, this one, I have seen.
13 BY MR. BYRNE: 13
14 Q. If memos came out to a general 14
15 manager ind cating that they were not to criticize 15
16 the league, you would have received t? 16
17 A. Yes. I mean, if we were to -- for 17 MR. SCHMIDT: Where are you, just so
18 instance, in our competitive area, we were not 18 I'm --
19 encouraged to criticize the officiating publicly. 19 MR. BYRNE: Oh, I'm sorry.
20 Q. Okay. 20 MR. SCHMIDT: Oh, is that the subject?
21 A. And could be fined if that 21 Okay. At the bottom.
22 happened, but we were encouraged to communicate with 22 MR. BYRNE: Are you with me, Chris?
23 the legal office if we had problems and 23 MR. SCHMIDT: I am. Is the witness with
24 disagreements and that they could be discussed 24 you?
25 there. 25 MR. BYRNE: I believe he was.
Page 191 Page 193

1 Q. In your role as GM through '97 to 1 MR. SCHMIDT: Okay. All right. Let's
2 2005 with this injury surveillance system that was 2 go.
3 in place, are you aware of any of their findings or 3 BY MR. BYRNE:
4 results? 4
5 MR. LUPION: Objection. 5
6 THE DEPONENT: I'm -- I'm not aware of 6
7 any specific data. I'm aware that they would bring 7
8 recommendations such as we need to change these 8 A. I'm just reading it now.
9 plexiglass boards into something different or 9 Okay.
10 these -- the firmer, more rigid boards need to be 10 Q. Then right above it, there's an
11 changed out, because the data supports that injuries 11 email from Ruben Echemendia. Do you know who he is?
12 are happening because of this. 12 A. No.
13 BY MR. BYRNE: 13 Q. I believe he is a physician. Would
14 Q. Bob, in your opinion as a general 14 that refresh your memory?
15 manager, did you find that this -- that this panel 15 A. No.
16 and system was of great help? 16 Q. Okay. Dr. Echemendia then passes
17 A. I think that the credibility of the 17 this email on to Julie Grand, and you know who she
18 people on it is very high and that it was put in 18 is?
19 place to -- for a purpose and that it provided the 19 A. I do.
20 purpose it was put in place for. 20
21 MR. BYRNE: Okay. I'd like to go to the 21
22 next exhibit, and this is Gainey 19. 22
24 NHL0026146 to 24
25 25

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Page 194 Page 196

1 1
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4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
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13 13
14 14
15 15
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17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
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Page 195 Page 197

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Next, go to --
6 6 MR. SCHMIDT: We have been going about
7 7 an hour. Can we take a quick break?
8 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Yes. We need to
9 9 change the video.
10 10 MR. BYRNE: Okay.
11 11 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This marks the end of
12 12 medium number 2. We are going off the record at
13 13 2:03 p.m.
14 14 -- RECESS AT 2:03 --
15 15 -- RESUMING AT 2:12 --
16 16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the start of
17 17 medium number 3 in the deposition of Bob Gainey. We
18 18 are on the record at 2:12 p.m.
19 19 BY MR. BYRNE:
20 20 Q. Bob, I'd like to show you this next
21 21 exhibit. We marked it as Gainey 20.
23 23 NHL0130619 to 0130620
24 24 BY MR. BYRNE:
25 25 Q. And this is an email exchange with

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Page 198 Page 200

1 Colin Campbell, Julie Grand, and a head athletic 1
2 therapist for the Ottawa Senators named Gerry 2
3 Townend. Do you know Mr. Townend? 3
4 A. No, I don't. 4
5 Q. Have you seen this document before 5
6 today? 6
8 Q. I'd just like you to read on 8
9 page 0130620 -- it should be the next page, Bob -- 9
10 Gerry's letter to Dr. Ruben Echemendia. If you can 10
11 read that first. 11
12 A. Okay. So this is Gary Townsend? 12
13 Q. Gerry Townend, T-O-W-N-E-N-D. 13
14 A. Okay. 14
15 Q. Direct your attention to the middle 15
16 of the email, where it starts with the sentence: 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23 BY MR. BYRNE:
24 24 Q. Do you think the trainers would be
25 25 the best position -- the best -- the best person in
Page 199 Page 201

1 Do you agree with that characterization, 1 position to treat the players and understand the
2 Bob? 2 protocols that go in for concussions?
3 MR. LUPION: Objection. 3 A. My -- my first hope, if it was for
4 THE DEPONENT: I can't put it into 4 me, would be the doctor.
5 context. I don't agree or disagree. It sounds like 5 Q. Okay. And would the trainer be the
6 somebody who's really pissed off. 6 second?
7 BY MR. BYRNE: 7 A. The trainer could follow the
8 Q. Do you believe that you as a GM and 8 doctor's recommendations.
9 your coaches that you employed were up to speed in 9
10 understanding how complicated concussions are? 10
11 A. Well, speaking for myself, I could 11
12 never make the statement that I understood 12
13 concussions. I don't have that -- I don't have that 13
14 capacity. I have -- I understand there's an issue, 14
15 I understand there's protocol, there's recovery, 15 BY MR. BYRNE:
16 there's post-concussion syndromes, it's possible it 16 Q. Okay. Do you know if Dr. Townend
17 could end a player's career, but could I make hard 17 was on the concussion working group?
18 comments on it? No. 18 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
19 Q. The next paragraph down, the 19 THE DEPONENT: I thought I understood
20 sentence that reads: 20 that he was a sports psych -- or, like, a
21 21 physiotherapist.
22 22 BY MR. BYRNE:
23 23 Q. Yeah, but also were you aware that
24 24 he was a member on the concussion working group?
25 25 A. No, I wasn't.

612.338.3376
Page 202 Page 204

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 MR. BYRNE: Okay. We'll move on to the 7
8 next exhibit. This will be marked as Gainey 8
9 Exhib t 21. 9
11 NHL0029537 to 0029538 11
12 BY MR. BYRNE: 12
13 Q. And this looks an email exchange 13
14 between Colin Campbell and Darren Dreger. You're 14
15 familiar with Mr. Dreger? 15
16 A. I know who he is. 16
17 Q. Who is he? 17
18 A. He is a -- he is an on-air 18
19 journalist/sports announcer. 19
20 Q. Have you read this or seen this 20
21 document before today? 21
23 Q. You haven't read it? 23
24 A. I haven't. 24
25 Q. If you could just read the first 25
Page 203 Page 205

1 paragraph on the very top of the page dated 4/25/06 1 BY MR. BYRNE:
2 2 Q. Okay. Do you personally feel for
3 3 players who are battling those effects?
4 4 MR. LUPION: Objection.
5 5 THE DEPONENT: I mean, I think it's each
6 6 person's, you know, own personality. I don't know
7 7 who he is speaking about.
8 8 BY MR. BYRNE:
9 9 Q. No, just you personally, in
10 10 general. If a player was battling the long-term
11 11 effects of a concussion, would you feel for him?
12 Is that a comment that you've heard 12 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
13 Mr. Campbell make before in the meetings that you've 13 THE DEPONENT: Yes.
14 attended with him? 14 BY MR. BYRNE:
15 MR. LUPION: Objection. 15 Q. Okay. Bob, we are going to move on
16 THE DEPONENT: No, it isn't. 16 to the next exhibit. This is the short one-page
17 BY MR. BYRNE: 17 exhibit. Have you seen this before today, email
18 Q. Is that something that would be 18 between Colin Campbell and Steve Spott --
19 unusual for Mr. Campbell to say? 19 A. I have not.
20 A. I don't think so. 20 Q. -- dated 3/30/2007? Can you just
21 21 read the brief email exchange here.
23 23 NHL0029638
24 24 BY MR. BYRNE:
25 25 Q. Did you read it?

612.338.3376
Page 206 Page 208

1 A. I've read it, yeah. 1 going to show you is notes from a general managers
2 2 meeting 2007, and I believe you would have attended
3 3 this. This is Gainey Exhibit No. 23.
4 4 EXHIBIT NO. 23: General Notes Bates labeled
5 5 NHL0232747 to 0232761
6 6 BY MR. BYRNE:
7 7 Q. Would this be correct, you would
8 8 have attended this meeting, Bob?
9 9 A. In all likelihood, yes.
10 10 Q. Okay. I'd like to direct your
11 11 attention to the next page, which is 0232748, and
12 12 the bottom two bullet points that have your name in
13 13 it.
14 14 A. Okay.
15 15 Q. Have you seen this document before
16 16 today?
17 17 A. Haven't. Well, I may have, but I
18 18 don't remember seeing it.
19 19 Q. It was most likely you were given
20 20 this document while you were employed as a GM?
21 21 A. Yes.
22 22 Q. When you finish those two
23 23 paragraphs that pertain to you, could you just let
24 24 me know.
25 25 A. I've read both of those paragraphs.
Page 207 Page 209

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8 Q. Now, this is in 2007. Weren't
9 9 there any rules in place regarding pre-game fights?
10 10 A. Not that I'm aware of.
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 Q. Does it seem out of character? 14
16 THE DEPONENT: I don't know what context 16
17 any of this is in, so how to judge it in character, 17
18 out of character, I really am lost. 18
19 BY MR. BYRNE: 19
20 Q. Is it a surprise to you? 20
22 THE DEPONENT: No, it's not a surprise 22
23 to me, it's confusing to me. 23 Q. Okay. Now, going down to the next
24 BY MR. BYRNE: 24 page, 0232745 -- 754, excuse me. The fourth bullet
25 Q. Okay. Bob, the next exhibit I'm 25 point:

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Page 210 Page 212

1 1
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3 3
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5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 211 Page 213

1 1
2 Q. Turning to the next page, 0232755, 2
3 the first two paragraphs, Brian Burke and Darcy 3
4 Rigier. Do you know Brian Burke? 4
5 A. Yes, I do. 5
6 Q. Who is he? 6
7 A. Brian Burke is a -- at this time, I 7
8 believe he is an employee of the Calgary Flames. 8
9 Q. And do you recall what his job 9
10 capacity was in 2007 during this meeting? 10
11 A. He would have either been the 11
12 manager in Anaheim or in Toronto. I'm not sure 12
13 which one he would have been at that time. 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17 Q. So in 2007, you believe that the
18 18 league protected the head as much as the knees?
19 19 A. I think the league was attempting
20 20 to protect players in -- in all areas.
21 21 Q. Then we turn the page to 0232756,
22 22 and we get to a Bob Gainey quote. Midway through
23 23 the page, you will see a bullet point with your
24 24 name.
25 25 A. Okay.

612.338.3376
Page 214 Page 216

1 1 Q. Do you recall what years you were a
2 2 member?
3 3 A. I believe the Competition Committee
4 4 was formed sometime around 2004, 2005.
5 5 Q. Okay. Would you have been involved
6 6 in the Competition Committee through the end of your
7 7 tenure as a general manager?
8 8 A. Possibly, yes.
9 9 MR. BYRNE: The next exhibit is marked
10 10 Gainey 24.
11 11 EXHIBIT NO. 24: Minutes June 15, 2007, Bates
12 12 labeled NHL0513877 to 0513913
13 13 BY MR. BYRNE:
14 14 Q. This is the minutes of the
15 15 Competition Committee held here in Toronto on
16 16 June 15th, 2007. Have you seen this document prior
17 17 to the deposition?
18 18 A. Not that I'm aware of, no.
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 215 Page 217

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 Q. Does it work in other sports -- or 6
7 strike that. 7
8 Does it work in the other feeder 8
9 leagues, like the OHL, who have that ban? 9
11 THE DEPONENT: They have it, and -- I 11
12 believe in the OHL, and I'm really not aware of what 12
13 the results are. 13
14 BY MR. BYRNE: 14
15 Q. Okay. And, again, are you aware of 15
16 any of the results in football that ban hits to the 16
17 head? 17
18 A. I'm not. 18
20 BY MR. BYRNE: 20
21 Q. Okay. We will move on to the next 21
22 exhibit, Bob. 22
23 Bob, at any time, were you a member of 23
24 the Competition Committee? 24
25 A. Yes. 25

612.338.3376
Page 218 Page 220

1 1 real concern about being protected against hits to
2 2 the head?
3 3 A. I wasn't specifically aware that
4 4 the players had a concern. They've got access to
5 5 the rules committee and they have member people on
6 6 the rules committee, and it's a place for the PA and
7 7 the players to gather those thoughts from the
8 8 players in different areas and bring them to the
9 9 rules committee.
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20 Q. Okay. If you turn the page to
21 21 NHL0513897. Now, this is a minutes of a Compet t on
22 22 Comm ttee meeting held on June 25th, and it appears
23 23 that your name is on this one.
24 24 A. Yes.
25 25 Q. Do you see your name there?
Page 219 Page 221

1 1 A. I do.
2 2 Q. Okay.
3 3 MR. LUPION: Are you marking this as a
4 4 separate exhibit?
5 5 MR. BYRNE: No. This is all part of the
6 6 same exhibit in here. These are all the Competition
7 7 Committee. If you could turn to --
8 8 MR. LUPION: Can we note for the record
9 9 that this is a different meeting than the one --
10 10 than the second one.
11 11 MR. BYRNE: Yes. I believe I stated
12 12 that, Adam.
13 13 MR. LUPION: Okay.
14 14 BY MR. BYRNE:
15 15 Q. Bob, if I could direct your
16 16 attention to 0513900. It would be page 4 of 9, if
17 17 that helps you find it a little quicker.
18 18 A. I believe I have it.
19 19 Q. Okay. Have you seen these -- this
20 20 minutes before?
21 21 A. Not that I recollect, but I
22 22 probably have.
23 23
24 24
25 Q. Were you aware that players had a 25

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Page 222 Page 224

1 1 BY MR. BYRNE:
2 2 Q. And you don't have any recollection
3 3 of the discussion, as we sit here today?
4 4 A. I do not.
5 5 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Let's move on to the
6 6 next exhibit, then. This will be marked Gainey 25.
7 7 EXHIBIT NO. 25: E-mail chain Bates labeled
8 8 NHL0128996 to 0128998
9 9 BY MR. BYRNE:
10 10 Q. Bob, have you seen this exhibit
11 11 prior to today?
12 12 A. Not to my knowledge, no.
13 13 Q. This is email exchange between Gary
14 14 Bettman and Julie Grand. And do you want to just
15 15 take a minute and review the document, please.
16 16 A. Okay. Just page 1, or is there
17 17 more?
18 18 Q. No. I was going to ask you a
19 19 couple of questions on page 2, particularly on the
20 20 type regarding point 2, if you see that, Bob.
21 21 A. Okay.
22 22 Okay.
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 223 Page 225

1 1
2 Q. Wasn't intentional fighting a rule 2
3 that we discussed earlier in the deposition today 3
4 that was to be banned? 4
5 A. Can you refresh me on -- 5
6 Q. Didn't we discuss earlier today, 6
7 this morning, regarding intentional fighting or 7
8 staged fighting, whatever the vernacular was? Do 8
9 you recall that? 9
10 A. Well, I think it was to be 10
11 penalized differently, instigator's penalties or -- 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 226 Page 228

1 1 that there were some that I did not see.
2 2 BY MR. BYRNE:
3 3 Q. Okay. Would this be something you
4 4 think your owner would be interested in knowing,
5 5 that these studies were not interpreted and
6 6 analyzed?
8 8 THE DEPONENT: I really don't know what
9 9 his --
10 10 BY MR. BYRNE:
11 11 Q. Did you ever have any discussions
12 12 with your owners about concussions?
13 13 A. Not specifically about concussions.
14 14 Q. Okay. Did you ever have any
15 15 discussions with your owners about costs through the
16 16 insurance programs?
18 18 THE DEPONENT: I never did, no.
19 19 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Let's move on to the
20 20 next exhibit. And this one is Gainey number 26.
22 22 NHL0031371
23 23 BY MR. BYRNE:
24 24 Q. Have you seen this exhibit prior to
25 25 today?
Page 227 Page 229

1 1 A. I -- no, I haven't.
2 2 Q. Okay. If you could just take a
3 3 moment and read it. It's only one page.
4 4 A. Okay.
5 5 Okay.
6 6 Q. Going to the very top part of the
7 7 page, this is where Mr. Campbell is responding back
8 8 to Mr. McKenzie.
9 9
10 10
11 BY MR. BYRNE: 11
12 Q. Personally, does that bother you? 12
13 A. It didn't bother me. I'm not 13
14 bothered by it. I was receiving information and 14
15 handling it and getting it to the places that it 15
16 needed to go within my organization. 16
17 Q. Okay. Can you give me specific 17
18 pieces of information? 18
19 A. Many of them, we've discussed 19
20 today, some of the protocols and some of the 20
21 post-concussion criteria for return to play. 21
22 Q. And there's also several we 22
23 discussed that you did not see; is that accurate? 23
25 THE DEPONENT: It's -- it's possible 25

612.338.3376
Page 230 Page 232

1 1 document before?
2 2 A. I don't recall seeing it before,
3 3 but it's a familiar kind of document.
4 4 Q. Okay. The area I'd like you to
5 5 just read would be on the second page, NHL 0215078,
6 6 the second-to-last bullet point, "Request for Hockey
7 7 Operations." Do you see that, Bob?
8 8 A. I do.
9 9 Q. Okay. Did you finish with the
10 10 bullet point yet, Bob?
11 11 A. Not quite.
12 12 Okay.
13 13 Q. In this bullet point of this
14 14 minutes of this meeting on June 2nd, 2009 --
15 15 again, this is one that you would have been at.
16 16 There is no attendance list, but do you believe you
17 17 would have been at this one?
18 18 A. I believe, in all likelihood, yes.
19 19 Q. Okay. States:
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
Page 231 Page 233

1 1
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6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
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15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Let's go to the next 20
21 one. This is now Gainey Exhibit 27. 21
22 EXHIBIT NO. 27: Agenda June 2, 2009, Bates 22
23 labeled NHL0215077 to 0215079 23
24 BY MR. BYRNE: 24
25 Q. Bob, do you recall seeing this 25 Q. What was your opin on at that time

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Page 234 Page 236

1 in 2009, Bob? 1 MR. BYRNE: Have we?
2 A. Well, I don't re -- 2 MR. SCHMIDT: I think so.
3 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. 3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the
4 THE DEPONENT: I don't recall the 4 record. The time is 3:07 p.m.
5 proposal, so I can't really comment, and the OHL 5 -- RECESS AT 3:07 --
6 zero tolerance wouldn't have been something I was 6 -- RESUMING AT 3:18 --
7 prepared to move to at that time. 7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the
8 BY MR. BYRNE: 8 record in the deposition of Bob Gainey. The time is
9 Q. But would you have been prepared to 9 3:19 p.m.
10 move for the targeted head hit as proposed by the 10 EXHIBIT NO. 28: Minutes, June 25, 2009 Bates
11 NHL PA? 11 labeled NHL0581018 to 0581037
12 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form for the 12 BY MR. BYRNE:
13 same reasons. 13 Q. Bob, now I'm going to show you what
14 THE DEPONENT: Well, it was a targeted 14 is labeled as Gainey Exhibit 28, and this is the
15 head hit proposal, and I don't know what the 15 minutes of the Competition Committee dated
16 proposal was. 16 June 25th, 2009, where you are listed as an attendee
17 BY MR. BYRNE: 17 for the Canadiens. Do you see that?
18 Q. Okay. As you sit here today, you 18 A. Yes, I do.
19 would have known the proposal at the time of the 19 Q. Did you see this document prior to
20 meeting? 20 the deposition today?
21 A. Perhaps, yes. 21 A. Not -- I haven't seen it prior -- I
22 Q. Well, you wouldn't have given a 22 may have seen it prior to today but not in
23 vote or opinion on something you weren't aware of, 23 preparation for today.
24 correct? 24
25 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. There's, 25
Page 235 Page 237

1 again, no indication of a vote at all. 1
2 THE DEPONENT: Well, I'm trying to 2
3 answer your question today. I don't -- I don't know 3
4 what the proposal was. 4
5 BY MR. BYRNE: 5
6 Q. That's all I'm saying is that 6
7 you're answering this question today; you don't 7
8 recall the proposal -- 8
9 A. Correct. 9
10 Q. -- but you would have recalled the 10
11 proposal back in 2009 during this discussion. 11
12 That's all I'm asking. 12
13 A. Yes. 13
14 Q. So if we were able to find a record 14
15 of that, of your vote, we would know how you stood 15
16 in 2009? 16
17 MR. LUPION: Object to the form. He 17
18 never said there was a vote. 18
19 THE DEPONENT: Yeah. Well, if I saw it, 19
20 I could possibly have an opinion on it. 20
21 BY MR. BYRNE: 21
22 Q. Okay. Move on to the next one, 22
23 Bob. 23
24 MR. SCHMIDT: Let's take a quick break. 24
25 Been going about an hour. 25

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Page 238 Page 240

1 1
2 2
3 Q. Can you tell me how you make 3
4 fighting safer? 4
5 A. Well, you make it safer by 5
6 eliminating third man into a fight, by eliminating a 6
7 fight where there's only one combatant who wants to 7
8 fight, you eliminate it by some of the -- some of 8
9 the changes to the rules that had been put in place 9 Q. Okay. If we turn the page to
10 over a number of years. 10 0581022, page 5 of 20, and -- one, two, three --
11 11 fourth paragraph down, starting with "Ed Snider."
12 12 A. Yes.
13 13 Q. Do you know who Mr. Sn der is?
14 14 A. Yes, I do.
15 15 Q. Who is he?
16 16 A. Mr. Snider is owner or in the
17 17 ownership group of the Philadelphia Flyers.
18 BY MR. BYRNE: 18
19 Q. That rule had already been changed 19
20 years earlier. 20
21 MR. LUPION: Motion to strike. 21
22 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to the form. 22
23 THE DEPONENT: So that's an example of a 23
24 rule change that would make a fight safer. 24
25 25
Page 239 Page 241

1 BY MR. BYRNE: 1
2 Q. I'm talking in 2009. The rules 2
3 that were in place in 2009, how do you make fighting 3
4 safer thereafter, from 2009 to now? 4
5 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. Asked and 5
6 answered. 6
7 THE DEPONENT: Yeah. Mr. Campbell is 7
8 making a comment, and as far as I can tell, it's 8
9 simply that. It's just a comment. 9
10 BY MR. BYRNE: 10
11 Q. Okay. Is it still the same, Bob, 11
12 that, in a fight, are you looking to punch your 12
13 opponent in the head and face as hard as you can? 13
14 A. I would say it is. 14
15 Q. Okay. And then you go down to 15
16 the -- one, two, three -- fourth paragraph: 16 BY MR. BYRNE:
17 17 Q. Bob, would it be accurate to state
18 18 that, in the playoffs, there is hardly any fighting?
20 20 THE DEPONENT: Without -- without
21 21 knowing specif cally, my overall sense is that
22 22 fighting is reduced in the playoffs.
23 23 BY MR. BYRNE:
24 24 Q. Why is that?
25 25 A. It's a good question. I think one

612.338.3376
Page 242 Page 244

1 of the -- one of the reasons could be that the 1
2 playoffs are such a short-term competition that a 2
3 mistake by a player, a penalty of some kind that 3
4 could damage his team's success, is so much more 4
5 acute in the playoffs than it is during the regular 5
6 season. 6
7 Q. So in a high-pressure series, 7
8 fighting is not necessary. Would that be accurate? 8
9 A. I think in shorter -- 9
11 THE DEPONENT: -- more intense 11
12 competition, shorter particularly, where one mistake 12
13 can have big consequences as opposed to over a 13
14 six-month, eight-month season. 14
15 BY MR. BYRNE: 15 Q. Okay. Bob, would it be fair to say
16 Q. So in your opinion, could the 16 that when the playoffs come the players could
17 league survive a regular season without the 17 control their emotions?
18 fighting? 18 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
19 MR. LUPION: Objection. 19 THE DEPONENT: I think the players are
20 THE DEPONENT: At this point, I've 20 strong compet tors, and they -- and they sense a --
21 always stated that I think that fighting is there 21 they sense when their actions are more
22 for a particular reason, and I couldn't really 22 disadvantageous to their team.
23 project whether the league would survive or not. 23 BY MR. BYRNE:
24 BY MR. BYRNE: 24 Q. If they can control their emotions
25 Q. I just have trouble reconciling 25 in the playoffs, can't they also do it during the
Page 243 Page 245

1 your opinion that it's there for a reason in the 1 regular season?
2 regular season but it's not there for the playoffs. 2 MR. LUPION: Object to the form.
3 Can you explain that to me? 3 THE DEPONENT: Can't really respond to a
4 MR. LUPION: Objection. 4 broad player pool and how they think, but certainly
5 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. 5 in a -- myself, in a more -- in a shorter, more
6 THE DEPONENT: Well, the rules do not 6 intense one-game, three-game series, five-game
7 change in the playoffs, so it's the same rules. 7 series, seven-game series, the -- the results are --
8 Fighting is not allowed in the season, but it's 8 for bad actions or good actions, are more acute.
9 condoned, and in the playoffs, fighting is not 9 BY MR. BYRNE:
10 allowed, but it's condoned. 10 Q. So would it be fair to say that the
11 BY MR. BYRNE: 11 safety valve theory of, you know, having to have the
12 12 players vent their frustrations really is false
13 13 because it can be controlled?
15 15 THE DEPONENT: No, I wouldn't agree with
16 16 that.
17 17 BY MR. BYRNE:
18 18 Q. Okay. Bob, if we could turn to
19 19 page 13 of 20, NHL0581030. Down at the
20 20 second-to-last paragraph of that page. It starts
21 21 "Bob Gainey observed..." Do you see that?
22 22 A. Yes, I do.
23 23 Q. Do you recall what you meant in
24 24 this paragraph?
25 25 MR. SCHMIDT: Take a moment and read it,

612.338.3376
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1 please. 1 manager, I would be looking to -- and did try to
2 THE DEPONENT: Okay. 2 inform and educate the players on doing what they
3 BY MR. BYRNE: 3 needed to do in a way that they could play inside
4 Q. What did you mean by that? 4 the rules and to the advantage of our team.
5 5 Q. But just if the rules were just
6 6 str ctly enforced and as penalties were being called
7 7 on the h ts we discussed, wouldn't that player be
8 8 eventually evolved out of the game, because he would
9 9 always be in the penalty box and putting your team
10 10 into a position where it would be very difficult to
11 11 win?
12 12 A. Yeah, and I expect that happened.
13 13 Q. Okay. Bob, how did you use the
14 14 role of enforcer w th this? That confused me a
15 15 little bit. How d d you, as a coach, use that role
16 16 of enforcer w thin the context of these rules?
17 17 A. The role of enforcer was really not
18 18 a well-defined role within your team. It was -- it
19 19 was a place where the players would play hard, all
20 20 of the players would play hard. They would play
21 21 hard to protect themselves. They would play hard to
22 22 push and defeat the other team in different areas of
23 23 the ice.
24 24 The enforcer was more of a -- almost a
25 25 philosophy, to start with, and then implemented
Page 247 Page 249

1 Q. Okay. Bob, when you played, you 1 if -- you know, if there was an unfairness deemed by
2 never targeted anybody in hitting them in the head, 2 the person who was the enforcer, and often it would
3 did you? 3 be verbal, verbal discussion with a player on the
4 A. Not to my knowledge, no. 4 other team, please stay away from our goalie, if you
5 Q. So don't you think the players 5 would, you wouldn't mind, and if -- you know, that
6 could follow that under the existing rules, as you 6 would be the kind of place where the players would
7 did in 1973? 7 attempt to regulate themselves, and sometimes it
8 A. Well -- 8 would escalate into a fight and a -- and a penalty.
9 MR. LUPION: Object to the form. 9 Q. Bob, could you estimate for me if
10 THE DEPONENT: -- players, you know, 10 you can't remember the exact number how many players
11 it's a high-energy, high emotional sport, and 11 under your tenure as a head coach and GM underwent
12 there's -- there's, I believe, more than 700 players 12 concussion testing because they gave -- or showed
13 in the NHL in any given year, and there's very 13 signs of symptoms during a game or practice?
14 different kinds of people and personalities among 14 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
15 that group. 15 quest on.
16 BY MR. BYRNE: 16 THE DEPONENT: I wouldn't be able to
17 Q. But, Bob, if a player -- in your 17 answer you on a number.
18 role as a GM, if you had a player that was 18 BY MR. BYRNE:
19 constantly putting you into a man-down situation 19 Q. Would it be more than ten?
20 because they couldn't control their emotions, would 20 A. I wouldn't be able to answer you on
21 you release them? 21 a number.
22 A. I think that, you know, you work 22 Q. Just could not even give me an
23 with all the players and they all bring something to 23 estimate?
24 the game and they are all capable of going outside 24 A. I would not, no.
25 the rules, but in my role as coach or general 25 Q. Why is that?

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1 A. Because I don't have one to give 1
2 you. 2
3 Q. Okay. Bob, we are moving on to the 3
4 next exhibit, if you would. 4
5 A. Okay. 5
6 MR. BYRNE: This will be Gainey 6
7 Exhibit 29. 7
9 NHL0025789 to 0025791 9
10 BY MR. BYRNE: 10
11 Q. Bob, have you seen this exhibit 11
12 before today? 12
13 A. No, I have not. 13
14 Q. This is an exhibit that looks like 14
15 emails between Julie Grand, Bill Daly, and Gary 15
16 Bettman dated 12/4/09, and this is regard of 16
17 Concussion Summary '97 to 2009. Can you just take a 17
18 moment and just review the document. 18
19 A. Okay. 19
20 Q. To help move this along a little 20
21 bit, Bob, I'm just going to ask you particularly 21
22 about some questions in regards to numbers B and C 22
23 at the bottom of that first page. 23
24 A. Okay. 24
25 Okay. 25
Page 251 Page 253

1 Q. Bob, what's the average career of 1
2 an NHL player in terms of length? 2
3 A. I don't have a specific number. 3
4 Q. But approximately 3, 3-and-a-half 4
5 years seem accurate as an average? 5 Now let's go to the next page, and
6 A. It sounds short to me. 6 you'll see on --
7 Q. Five years? 7 MR. LUPION: I'm going to move to strike
8 A. I really don't have the numbers, 8 that speech.
9 but ... Maybe you know. 9 BY MR. BYRNE:
10 Q. I'm just asking you for your best 10 Q. Let's go to the next page, under --
11 estimate. 11 right after paragraph D, where she writes:
12 A. Well, I don't know. 12
13 Q. Okay. Go to paragraph B here, and 13
14 it says: 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

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1 1 A. Okay.
2 2 Q. Are you finished?
3 3 A. Yes.
4 4 Q. Okay. Do you know who Ryan Miller
5 5 is?
6 6 A. Yes, I do.
7 7 Q. Have you been in meetings with him
8 8 before?
9 9 A. Yes, I have.
10 10 Q. Okay. Do you agree with him?
12 12 THE DEPONENT: Yeah, no, I don't agree
13 13 completely with him. He makes some -- he makes some
14 14 good statements and gives some backup to them, but
15 15 do I agree with everything he says? No.
16 Q. Would you want that for your son if 16 BY MR. BYRNE:
17 he sustained concussions? 17 Q. What parts of this article do you
18 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to the form. 18 agree with that Mr. Miller states?
19 THE DEPONENT: I -- I would speak for 19 MR. LUPION: Objection.
20 myself, and I am fine the way I am. I don't need to 20 THE DEPONENT: Well, I agree that he's
21 be -- 21 concerned, I agree that he's frustrated, I can agree
22 BY MR. BYRNE: 22 that -- that he wants things to move quicker, but I
23 Q. I'm speaking -- I'm asking as a 23 would disagree with him -- his statement that, you
24 dad, Bob. Would -- your son played in the league. 24 know, nothing's being done, because things were
25 If he had concussions, would you want him to be 25 being done.
Page 255 Page 257

1 followed up and to see what steps could be made to 1 BY MR. BYRNE:
2 assist players -- 2 Q. Do you agree w th his statement
3 A. Well, I don't think my son has any 3 that players have been demanding action on hits to
4 problems, and so I would say, no, I think he's fine. 4 the head?
5 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Going to the next 5 A. Well, I think the players,
6 exhibit, Bob. This will be Gainey number 30. 6 including him, have been involved for some time in
7 EXHIBIT NO. 30: Package of articles Bates 7 the -- in the Competition Committee where they
8 labeled NHL0141929 to 0141980 8 can -- they can bring these to a head and bring them
9 BY MR. BYRNE: 9 to a vote and -- and the players and the group work
10 Q. Bob, we're going to reduce that a 10 together and not everybody always gets exactly what
11 little bit and just direct your attention to 11 they want.
12 0141966, and the part of that exhibit that I just 12 Q. Okay. And I just want to drop down
13 want to discuss with you is "Miller is tired of head 13 a little bit on that second page, Bob, to Ray
14 shots." Again, it's 0141966. 14 Sharo's comment:
15 A. Yes. 15 "If that was my son, I wouldn't want
16 Q. Okay. If you could just -- have 16 for that to be the way he was hit. What
17 you seen this article before? 17 Mike R chards did was within the rules
18 A. No, I haven't. 18 that we currently have."
19 Q. Okay. It's dated 19 Do you agree with that? Would you want
20 November 13th, 2009. If you could just take a few 20 Steve hit that way?
21 moments to just scan the article and review it and 21 A. Where I disagree with that is that
22 read it. 22 I do remember that hit, and I don't think it was a
23 A. It goes on to the next page? 23 legal hit.
24 Q. Yeah, it goes on for three pages. 24 --- Reporter asks for clarification.
25 Oh, I'm sorry. 25 MR. LUPION: D d you say "illegal" or "a

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1 legal"? 1
2 THE DEPONENT: I don't think it was 2
3 legal. I thought the player who made the hit should 3
4 have been penalized for that hit. That was my 4

5 opinion at the time. 5
6 BY MR. BYRNE: 6
7 Q. The final sentence on the next 7
8 page, 0141968, that Miller says: 8
9 "GMs, the NHL are afraid to take 9
10 hitting out of the hockey, but it's not 10
11 ever going to take the hitting out of 11
12 hockey ... it's going to take stupid 12
13 hits out of hockey." 13
14 Do you agree with that statement? 14
15 A. I don't think the NHL or the GMs 15
16 are afraid to take hitting out of hockey, I think 16
17 they feel that the sport is better with body contact 17
18 in it, and the rest is -- is Mr. Miller's opinion. 18
19 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Let's move on to the 19
20 next exhibit, Bob. This is Gainey Exhibit 31. 20
21 EXHIBIT NO. 31: "Systematic Analysis of NHL 21
22 Concussions" Bates labeled NHL0027430 to 22
23 0027477 23
24 BY MR. BYRNE: 24
25 Q. And, Bob, I'm just going to -- have 25
Page 259 Page 261

1 you seen this exhibit before today? 1
2 A. I have, yes. 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

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1 1
2 Q. Prior to today, were you aware of 2
3 the number of man games lost? 3
4 A. I'm not even aware which year this 4
5 is for or -- 5
6 Q. 2006 to 2009. 6
7 A. Oh, 2006 to 2009. No, I wasn't 7
8 aware. 8
9 Q. Would that have been important 9
10 information for you to have? 10
11 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form. Asked and 11
12 answered a couple of times. 12
13 THE DEPONENT: Man games lost are 13
14 important, and -- 14
15 BY MR. BYRNE: 15
16 Q. Okay. 16
17 A. -- and I was usually aware of them 17
18 on a year-to-year basis. 18
19 MR. BYRNE: Next one. Next exhibit is 19
20 Gainey number 32. 20
22 NHL0254638 to 0254640 22
23 BY MR. BYRNE: 23
24 Q. Bob, this is an email exchange from 24
25 Colin Campbell, Chris King, and a few others, Jerry 25
Page 263 Page 265

1 Dineen, Glen Sather, in April 10th, 2010, regarding 1
2 the Shelley head hit. Do you recall that inc dent? 2
3 A. No, I don't. 3
4 Q. Okay. Did you review this document 4
5 prior to today? 5
6 A. I don't believe so. 6
7 Q. Would you just take a moment and 7
8 read -- the only area here I really want to discuss 8
9 w th you is the middle of the first page, 25 -- 9
10 0254638, the Colin Campbell to Jerry Dineen, 10
11 "Respectfully disagree, Jerry." Do you see that? 11
12 A. Yes. 12
13 Okay. 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 266 Page 268

1 1 an answer that:
2 2 "We had a Concussion Working Group
3 3 formed in 1997 dealing with how to
4 4 better protect players from
5 5 concussions."
6 6 Again, this is now an article in 2010.
7 7 What data or what reports did you ever see as a
8 8 board of governor attendee or a general manager
9 9 attendee of what that data specifically said about
10 10 NHL players who sustained concussions or head trauma
11 11 and any long-term problems with symptoms like CTE?
12 12 MR. LUPION: Object to the form of the
13 MR. BYRNE: Okay. We will move on to 13 question, multiple questions, lack of foundation.
14 the next exhib t, Bob. This will be Gainey 14 THE DEPONENT: I don't know of any data
15 number 33. 15 or any -- any studies or I'm not aware of any --
16 EXHIBIT NO. 33: Interview Bates labeled 16 anything that would fit your question.
17 NHL0141146 to 0141151 17 BY MR. BYRNE:
18 BY MR. BYRNE: 18 Q. Okay. So is it your recollection
19 Q. And, Bob, have you seen this 19 that the -- the league never shared with the GMs or
20 document before, Commissioner Bettman, Colin 20 the board of governors any interpretation of the
21 Campbell, Mike Murphy, Terry Gregson, Kay W tmore 21 data that the concussion working group started
22 interview? 22 collecting in 1997?
23 A. I have not. 23 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to form.
24 Q. I'm only interested in really 24 THE DEPONENT: The -- Mr. Bettman goes
25 asking you some questions on page 3 of that article, 25 on to talk about the things that the league has
Page 267 Page 269

1 which is NHL 041148, at the bottom of the left-hand 1 done, and the -- some of the things that he thinks
2 column, the question and answer by Commissioner 2 that has brought concussions into an area of
3 Bettman regarding football and hockey being very 3 concern, and states that the NHL has tried to do
4 different games. Do you see that question? 4 anything that it felt it could do to improve the
5 A. On page 3? 5 situation that makes sense.
6 Q. Yes, sir. 6 BY MR. BYRNE:
7 A. Okay. 7 Q. But alls he says is that we
8 Q. If you could just read the Q and 8 instituted "baseline testing and protocols for
9 the answer. 9 diagnosis and return to play." But where's the data
10 A. Okay. 10 of what that -- what that meant? Where is the data
11 Q. In it, the question is of 11 as to what problems players could have as a result
12 Commissioner Bettman that -- it states: 12 of those injuries that they were -- they were
13 "Football and hockey are very 13 tracking?
14 different games. Both of you are making 14 MR. LUPION: Objection. Again, there's
15 moves in order to address head trauma. 15 multiple questions. Lacks foundation.
16 Is there any worry by the NHL that 16 THE DEPONENT: I'm not aware of the data
17 alumni players may start moving towards 17 that you are speaking of.
18 a point where they are developing 18 BY MR. BYRNE:
19 long-term symptoms like the kind we've 19 Q. But is that something you believe
20 seen from NFL players, CTE and the 20 that should have been presented to the board of
21 like?" 21 governors or the GMs?
22 We discussed earlier today that you did 22 A. I --
23 not know the term "CTE"? 23 MR. LUPION: Objection.
24 A. Correct. 24 THE DEPONENT: It's something that
25 Q. Okay. Commissioner Bettman gives 25 should be handled by the medical people and the

612.338.3376
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1 people who collect the data and have the ability and 1 is?
2 the expertise to analyze t. 2 A. I do not. Oh, Bonnie Patterson, as
3 BY MR. BYRNE: 3 a matter of fact, I do.
4 Q. But they can't change rules, can 4 Q. Oh. Who is she?
5 they? 5 A. Well, she was the president of the
6 A. Well, what they would do, I guess, 6 university in my hometown at one time. So that's
7 is deliver to us, like they did deliver, 7 how the name ...
8 recommendations about things that we could do. Once 8 Q. I just want to turn your attention
9 they had analyzed certain data, then they would come 9 to the next page, Bob, 0053026, and the paragraph
10 to us, as the doctors did at one time with four or 10 right above, where it says "Mailing Address," "The
11 five recommendations of things that should be 11 Head Hit and concussion scenario." If you could
12 implemented. Me, as a hockey executive and a former 12 just read that.
13 hockey player, analyzing data ... 13 A. Okay.
14 Q. I'm not asking -- 14 Q. This is now 2010, and Terry writes:
15 MR. SCHMIDT: Let the witness finish. 15
16 MR. BYRNE: I thought he was done. 16
17 THE DEPONENT: Analyzing data is not my 17
18 expertise. 18
19 BY MR. BYRNE: 19
20 Q. Right. That's why you have these 20
21 people to prov de you with the data and an analysis, 21
22 correct? 22
23 A. That's why there's people who have 23
24 that expertise who are -- 24
25 25
Page 271 Page 273

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Let's move on to the 16
17 next one. This is Gainey number 34. 17
19 NHL0053025 to 0053027 19
20 BY MR. BYRNE: 20
21 Q. This is an email exchange with 21
22 Terry Gregson and Bonnie Patterson. And we already 22
23 discussed you know who Terry Gregson is? 23
24 A. Yes, I do. 24
25 Q. Do you know who Bonnie Patterson 25

612.338.3376
Page 274 Page 276

1 1 0115720
2 2 BY MR. BYRNE:
3 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Now let's move on to 3 Q. Have you seen this document before,
4 the next exhibit. This is Gainey number 35. 4 the NHL board of governors meeting, December of
5 EXHIBIT NO. 35: E-mail Bates labeled 5 2011?
6 NHL0033467 to 0033468 6 A. I don't believe so.
7 BY MR. BYRNE: 7 Q. And this is the time, Bob, where
8 Q. Have you seen this one, Bob? 8 you would have been a consultant?
9 A. I do not believe so. 9 A. Yes.
10 Q. This is an email exchange in 10 Q. Can you just briefly, again, tell
11 January of 2011, Colin Campbell and Brendon 11 us if your role of consultant would have been
12 Shanahan, and we've already established you knew 12 involved in any issues of concuss ons?
13 both these individuals? 13 A. No, my -- my role turned primarily
14 A. Yes, I do. 14 towards opinion of the players within our
15 -- DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD -- 15 organization and opinions about possible changes to
16 BY MR. BYRNE: 16 the roster of the team at a -- through a trade.
17 Q. All set, Bob? 17 Q. So at that point, your -- your
18 A. Yes. 18 focus was just toward roster moves?
19 Q. Okay. At the top of the page, the 19 A. It was just towards player
20 second sentence says: 20 personnel.
21 21 Q. Okay. Did you review this document
22 22 before the deposit on today?
23 23 A. I don't believe so.
24 24 Q. Okay. I want to turn your
25 25 attention to NHL 0115719. It's several pages into
Page 275 Page 277

1 1 the exhibit.
2 2 A. Yes.
3 3 MR. SCHMIDT: I think it's second from
4 4 last.
5 5 BY MR. BYRNE:
6 6 Q. Yes. That would be -- that would
7 7 cut to the chase. Second from the last page, Bob.
8 8 Thanks, Chris.
9 9 MR. SCHMIDT: Oh, no problem.
10 10 THE DEPONENT: Okay.
11 11 BY MR. BYRNE:
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 MR. BYRNE: If I can go on to the next 22
23 exhibit. This is Gainey number 36. 23
24 EXHIBIT NO. 36: "Concussions in the Nat onal 24
25 Hockey League," Bates labeled NHL0115694 to 25

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1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7 BY MR. BYRNE:
8 8 Q. Could that be done through
9 MR. BYRNE: Okay. 9 reviewing video after the fact?
10 -- DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD -- 10 A. Well, I think -- I think one of the
11 MR. CASHMAN: Let's take a break. 11 key messages to the players, the players were --
12 MR. SCHMIDT: That's fine. 12 were given information, they were pushed, they were
13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the 13 told they needed to report their injuries. They
14 record. This marks the end of medium number 3 in 14 needed to go in if they had symptoms and tell the
15 the deposition of Bob Gainey, and the time is 15 trainers, and so if -- if there's concussions that
16 4:18 p.m. 16 aren't being reported or he thinks they aren't, then
17 -- RECESS AT 4:18 -- 17 I think start with the player. He should be -- I
18 -- RESUMING AT 4:29 -- 18 mean, if they're -- otherwise, Colin is just blowing
19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins medium 19 wind.
20 number 4 in the deposition of Bob Gainey. We are on 20 Q. Would it -- in your era, Bob, would
21 the record at 4:29 p.m. 21 a player know he had a concuss on?
22 EXHIBIT NO. 37: E-mail Bates labeled 22 MR. SCHMIDT: Object to the form.
23 NHL0094230 to 0094232 23 THE DEPONENT: I think, speaking for
24 BY MR. BYRNE: 24 myself, I knew when I was uncomfortable or I knew
25 Q. Okay. Bob, I just gave you Gainey 25 when I was unsafe, and along w th a doctor, I would
Page 279 Page 281

1 Exhibit ... 1 discuss it. Would I know I had a concussion?
2 A. 37. 2 Certainly didn't have definitions or symptoms
3 3 defined to me as I've read or heard today, but
4 4 neither do I remember having symptoms like ongoing
5 5 sleeplessness or nausea or anxiety. I was hit hard
6 6 sometimes, absorbed them, regained my senses and my
7 7 comfort in my environment, and returned to play when
8 8 I had it.
9 9 MR. BYRNE: Okay. Mr. Gainey, I thank
10 10 you. I have no more questions at this time. I will
11 11 pass it to Chris or Adam if you have any questions.
12 12 MR. SCHMIDT: No questions. We will
13 13 read and sign.
14 14 MR. LUPION: No questions.
15 15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This marks the end of
16 16 today's proceedings in the deposition of Michael
17 17 Cashman -- sorry, Bob Gainey.
18 18 MR. SCHMIDT: That would be later.
19 19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the
20 20 record at 4:32 p.m.
21 21 --- Whereupon the deposition concluded at 4:32 p.m.
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25

612.338.3376
Page 282
1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
2 I, TERRY WOOD, RPR, CSR, Certified
3 Shorthand Reporter, certify;
4 That the foregoing proceedings were taken
5 before me at the time and place therein set forth, at
6 which time the witness was put under oath by me;
7 That the testimony of the witness and all
8 objections made at the time of the examination were
9 recorded stenographically by me and were thereafter
10 transcribed;
11 That the foregoing is a true and correct
12 transcript of my shorthand notes so taken.
13
14
15 _________________________________
16 PER: TERRY WOOD, RPR, CSR
17 REAL-TIME REPORTER
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 283
1 DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET
2 Case Caption: NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE PLAYERS'
3
4 DECLARATION UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY
5 I declare under penalty of perjury that I have read the
6 entire transcript of my depos tion taken in the captioned
7 matter or the same has been read to me, and the same is
8 true and accurate, save and except for changes and/or
9 correct ons, if any, as ind cated by me on the DEPOSITION
10 ERRATA SHEET hereof, w th the understanding that I offer
11 these changes as if still under oath.
12
13 Signed on the _______ day of ___________, 2015.
14
15 _______________________________.
16
17 BOB GAINEY
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

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1 DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET
2
3
4 Page No._____Line No._____Change to:_______________
5 ___________________________________________________
6 Reason for change:_________________________________
8 ___________________________________________________
11 ___________________________________________________
14 ___________________________________________________
17 ___________________________________________________
20 ___________________________________________________
23
24 SIGNATURE: _________________________DATE:__________
25 BOB GAINEY

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A 16:11 24:10 222:25 258:16 116:20 164:14

$10.5 259:23 38:2,16,22 223:15 agenda 6:17 125:14 225:6,9,13
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259:19 91:7 107:13 222:25 231:22 162:14,19 258:21
$2,500 107:17 223:1 264:4,8,13 AHL 274:1 259:5
134:21 112:8 additional 265:9 ailing 61:5 270:21
A's 253:21 122:20 142:14 agent 84:9 aim 25:19,22 analyze
a.m 1:13 8:1 124:17 address agents airport 77:23 270:2
8:16 61:24 130:20 81:24 199:23 alcohol 12:23 analyzed
62:3 108:2 153:13 124:11 aggravation all-encomp... 169:1
108:6 164:15 157:22 44:2 200:20 225:15
abilities 42:6 186:8,11 166:23 aggression all-male 70:3 228:6 270:9
ability 12:25 212:24 167:19 26:16 All-Star analyzing
59:11 61:6 227:23 200:22 121:11 275:10 270:13,17
140:9 241:17 267:15 agitators/i... allergies and/or
254:14 242:8 251:5 272:10 244:2 12:14 212:11
270:1 283:8 addressed ago 39:12 alleve 87:25 283:8
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38:11 69:15 acting 126:14 221:25 agree 15:1 204:16 77:22
85:10 90:2 action 125:6 addressing 48:3 76:3 allow 179:1 170:15
230:11 146:12 128:7 137:8 112:21 210:4 anger 202:5
235:14 147:4,5 adequate 114:14 allowed animosity
246:18 148:16 25:10 115:1 116:1 243:8,10 263:19
249:16,20 196:17 127:25 116:8 124:1 244:13 announcer
absolute 257:3 adhere 43:3 132:22 allowing 85:8 202:19
200:11 actions 43:4,10,15 136:16 alls 269:7 annual 15:16
absorbed 147:13,20 adhered 139:4 167:1 altercation 74:14
281:6 147:21 88:24 167:2 119:3 142:2 Anschutz
acceptable 244:21 adjust 110:12 171:19 altogether 170:16,16
96:7 121:11 245:8,8 243:24 182:14,20 124:3 170:22
151:16 activated adjusted 199:1,5 alumni 50:4 171:5 172:8
212:10 173:23 106:9 210:7 267:17 172:13,16
acceptance 176:13 administered 211:14 alupion@pr... 179:3
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Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order - Deposition of Robert (Bob) Gainey - 9/10/2015

In Re: National Hockey League Players' Concussion Injury Litigation

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2 ATTORNEY FOR THE NFL: 2 EXHIBIT NO./DESCRIPTION Page

3 Adam M. Lupion, Esq. 3 1 Document Bates labeled NHL0208530 to 0208532 110

4 PROSKAUER ROSE LLP 4 2 Letter Bates labeled NHL0128065 - 0128067 113

5 Eleven Times Square 5 3 Letter Bates labeled NHL0011457 118

6 New York, NY 10036-8299 6 4 Fax memorandum Bates labeled NHL012334 - 119

7 Phone: 212-969-3358 7 012340

8 E-mail: alupion@proskauer.com 8 5 Document Bates labeled NHL0015999 - 0016001 124

9 9 6 NHL Injury Surveillance System Summary 128

10 10 Report, '95-'96 season

11 11 7 Document Bates labeled NHL0218166 to 0218172 131

12 12 8 Minutes of GM Meeting, June 16, 1998 Bates 135

13 13 labeled NHL0219196 to 0219206

14 14 9 Memorandum Bates labeled NHL0224686 to 142

16 16 10 Memorandum Sept. 17, 2001, Bates labeled 151

18 18 11 NHL Injury Summary 2001-2002, Bates labeled 154

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2 Mr. Schmidt and Mr. Potts? 2 A. Yes.

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2 these general questions, you may proceed. 2 the season?

6 NHL. 6 whether it applied to me or not, I don't recall

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2 BY MR. BYRNE: 2 A. Not to my recollection.

2 A. As a telephone, to receive or send 2

3 emails. Those would be the two. 3

4 Q. Is there a -- is there a thing on 4

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3 MR. BYRNE: Did Bob have to attend any 3 information?

4 mandated concussion meetings? 4 A. I recall receiving information at

6 BY MR. BYRNE: 6 have number of games lost for certain injuries to

8 specifically to concussions. 8 of games lost to specific injuries in an attempt to

11 Q. Was there any mandated reporting 11 it better?

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4 Q. And did you purchase that on your 4

7 Q. And did you purchase that after 7

8 your tenure with the Canadiens -- or, strike that -- 8

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3 to judge. If a player was uncomfortable because 3 BY MR. BYRNE:

5 he was taken -- he was taken from the players' 5 it, Bob.

6 bench, and the doctors would put -- or do what the 6 A. Okay.

7 doctors do. 7 Q. You just mentioned that you