My dear brothers since by the grace of God the Kingdom of Spain discovered and conquered the Indies

of the West and that some call already the new world as for the time now raised difficult questions did
nothing and the world history could predict

one such questions and the most and the most important never received clear and complete answer
that's why we are here this new world has natives who have been conquered and subdued in the name
and true God for nearly 30 years some rumors have been spread in Europe saying that the natives of
Mexico and the islands of news Spain are wrongly treated by the Spanish conqueror.

these rumors that enemies of Spain Netherlands England France can have exaggerated reached His
Holiness the Pope. he was highly moved.

more especially that this maltreatment occurs in the name of our secret religion the Holy Father shows
his compassion for the population of new lands and it seems that his instructions have not been always
respected neither the law nor the payments for the crown.

Today day the Holy Father sent me to you with a precise mission. to decide, if this indigenous are
completed and true human beings, God's creatures, our brothers descending from adam. or they are as
some maintain a distinct category or even subjects of the devil himself. at the end of our debate the
decisions that i will take will be ipso facto confirmed by the st father and will become therefore
irrevocable.

We are here in Valladolid in this can vent where brother Gregorio has had the kindness to welcomed us
some witnesses and participants and first the very famous brother Bartolome of the scasas who knows
the new world well and who several times took defence of these indigenous. Opposite side we have
master Sepulveda himself. his philosophical works are very well known. his erudition and penetration of
his spirit will be precious. If among us somebody desires to speak let us know by raising the hand, i hope
that God will assist us and by his grace we will keep conscience and dignity.

Brother Bartolome

Eminence, our Lord Jesus said: I am the truth and the life

I will try to speak the truth about those that we are removing their life because it is the truth that we are
destroying them. since the discovery the English the Spanish have not stopped since leaving torturing
and massacring the Indians. what I have to say is dreadful that I do not know how to start we could fill
an enormous book. since the whole first contacts Spanish have been consumed by then thirst of gold. it
is all which they gold! gold! bring us gold!

So much that the natives said what do they do with all that good they must eat it all is subjected to gold.
also, since the beginning, the poor Indians are treated like animals deprived of reason. they're branded
with their owner’s name to their face sold from owner to owner branded again and again. these marks
accumulate on their faces who becomes like draft paper. They die for thousands in the mines with
ungodly stench. These mines are worse than hell, dark and wet vultures circling above the mines so
many they hide the sun.

Eminence it is per millions that they were exterminated like beast in a slaughterhouse in every possible
way. Impaled on spits them by groups of thirteen set over fire and cooked or hands hacked off and then
them released in the woods and told to “spread the words”. What words? Carry the message! Show to
others who we are. Why by thirteen? To honor God and the 12 apostles. I am telling you the truth the
Lord has been honored by all human horrors everything imaginable children held by their feet and their
skull cracked against rocks or cooked alive or drowned but or thrown to starving dogs which bite into
them like hogs bets made on who could disembowel a woman in a single stab.

Brother Bartolome you are speaking about sad mysteries of war. No, these people were not at war.
they came to us all smiling their faces open interested to us laden with fruits presents when we brought
them death in the name of Christ.

eminence this is blasphemy! The sacred place permit everything to be said besides its own known to
God all what I saw I saw it being done in the name of Christ I saw the Spaniards tear the fat of a living
breathing Indian to rub on their own wounds alive I saw it. I saw our soldiers hack of Moses years a
tongue hands women's nipples, a man’s pennies hack off like a tree limb for the fun of it. To distract
themselves I saw in Cuba in a place called Caonao. Spanish soldiers there sharpen their swords and
stones then they advanced a village and said that's the test the edge of our weapon. first Spaniard
threw his sword the others did the same and they disemboweled at random all the villagers. All
massacred! blood everywhere!

You were present? I was their chaplain I run crazed everywhere it was a spectacle of horror and terror I
saw it. another time I saw a soldier laughing as he stuck his knife into a child's guts and then this child
running away holding his innards again in Cuba. they were getting ready to kill one of their chiefs
without any reason and burn him alive. A monk approached a man to talk about our faith. he asked him
if he wanted to go to heaven or to suffer in hell. the cacique told him; will all Christians go to heaven?
“yes” said the monk, “some do”. “then” said the cacique “i prefer to the go to hell instead of being with
such cruel men”. I saw so many cruelties that no one would imagine no words no stories could describe
what I saw. eminence Christians have lost their fear of God they have forgotten who they are. yes.
millions. in cholula in Mexico and Tapeacas entire population had their throat cuts. Is the name of Saint
Jacques and it was easy because these men did not have any weapons like us nor of horses. do you
know eminence in certain place Spanish use blood of these men to water their fields from time to time a
captain will tell their soldiers to cut off chunks of thigh,and feed it to the dogs as if they were sides of
the mutton. In some camps there are shelves of human flesh size breasts hung on hooks the Indians
were fed of Indian flesh it was cheap some say the Spanish eat it too.

It is in the human nature brother bartolome to speak a lot without thinking. i let you talk I notice your
emotion your anger I listened well, but I must remind you that it is not this question that concerns us.
we should not decide on the cruelty of the Spanish we must decide on the nature and the quality of
these indigenous.

i suppose that we will not retain the assumption that they are servants of the devil Satan has no border
it would be too easy to put limits. he is everywhere. within each of us. As Columbus himself said the first
who met them” I can't believe there are better men” meaning they are beautiful eminence their
peaceful and meek like sheep they want nothing from you. generous open. They always welcoming with
a total ingenuity they cannot lie. They were the picture of the paradise. There intelligent without any
doubt they appear sometimes very ignorant and very credulous they were impressed by omens is the
emperor of Mexico wanted to sacrifiy himself.
an antique belief predicted their savior would return from orient Cortes a clever captain who was your
friend I believe was aware of this prophecy. he played along from the beginning, but they quickly
understood. the Spanish did not come from heaven. when Montezuma met Cortez the first time with
splendid gifts period, he told him i am a flesh and blood like you. are they capable of Christian feeling?
Of course. They welcome our faith. but look at the example we give period what can they think of God
that Christians who slaughtered them, claiming this is just and right? Do you know what a man told me
one day? Tell us. He told me “Yes I feel a little Christian” because I can already lie a little. Tell us now.
How do they react to those atrocities? Eminence I told you. They are so preferably and with strike them
so hard they could not fight back. So, they have been driven despair. Mothers have killed their babies to
keep them from being our slaves. More infants are born dead, because of certain herbs the mothers
take. Do you remember eminence the Ecclesiasticus words? Which first it was a shock for me I came
across it one day by chance. The bread for the poor is their life. The one which deprives them is a
murderer. These creatures live without love of life. Man do attach woman, to avoid any descendant.
They are crushed by disease, brought by us, by raping them. Yes, they lost any desire of life. An entire
nation dying in the name of Christ. Soon there won't be any souls left. So according to you brother but
tell me they are God's creatures. They are our brothers. Redeemed by the blood of Christ? Yes,
eminence just like us. Professor would you like to step in now? If it pleases your eminence.

Brother Bartolome, from boyhood you were attracted by the new lands. I went there i was 18 years old.
Didn't you receive some lands? Yes! I manage them well, I believe. Later after your ordination did you
celebrate your first mass in the new world? Yes! Once became member of the church. Didn't you try
several times to find one colony? Gathering natives and Spaniards and putting them to work? I tried
specially at Coumana you were in favor of a peaceful conquest. You wanted to establish the country of
true peace. Later! In Guatemala it natural it ended in bloodshed? At Coumana, yes, turn out to be a
rabid wolf. Isn't it strange that it's always the Spanish’s fault? What do you mean? Strange? I listened
you to speak, watched you and a thing became clear to me that I suspected according to your writing.
From the beginning these drives fascinated you. And we could even say seduced you. Why? I do not
know. But we can see that you speak with excess. I speak about what I saw it says in the facts not in my
words. However, I would not teach you anything by telling you that some travellers like you, went there!
Accused you of losing your mind. If I lost my mind eminence, why did you ask me to come here question
mark what am i doing here? If i am crazy! no you are not crazy. But sometimes we think we are the truth
we all know that. And something in you got confused! Scrambled! From seeing the truth. This Indians
you talk about, you were blind to their true nature. For example? You insisted that they are as gentle as
sheep, but if they were like sheep, they are not men! who can say that the man is gentle, but Christ say
it. He never stopped saying it. turn the other cheek! Yes! But he also says: “I did not come to bring
peace, but the sword” the Christ like this fight! he loves this conquest! or why would he have allowed
this massacres question mark and why did he allow? because the Indians deserve their faith period their
sins and their idols or a constant offence to God period the words, we conducted against then are just…
what sins are you talking about? Who is scrambled here? Who is blind? I ask you question. This young
man you spoke about stabbed and who held his innards in his hand. You saw this? With my eyes. And
what did you do? Grabbed him, quickly spoke to God, Christ as I could. I baptized him, he died in my
arms. The salvation of this man seems important to you? Of course. I could not save anything else.
Eminence I would retain initially this point. The salvation of the soul. You suppose then that they have a
soul? I will obviously reconsider this point. Or better before that it is necessary to remind you a number
of facts, but the emotion of my opponent may have masked. We are listening. First, a general question.
it is not established, it is not perfectly certain, that all nations on earth, without exception were created
one day become Christian. Yes, this truth is established. And we must do everything to lead them to the
true faith? All human beings without exception are predestinated. They are all part of mystical body of
the Christ because the Christian religion is the universal way. The divine forgiveness was granted to all
the nations renounce infidelity. But not true it is true! Our Franciscan brothers even believe that God's
reign on earth is near. And that it is celestial happiness will soon manifest itself. As soon as the last
infidels are converted, we are very convinced. Our victory over the moors was first prove of the grace of
God there is with each the new lands were conquered in another sign very clear. And how the Indians
could that we act in the name of God? they're calling us “yares” which means demon for them we come
from hell lead by the devil. You believe it? Brother Bartolome do you believe sincerely that the Spanish
are demons? Yes eminence. On this Newlands something demonic possessed the conquerers. They
became demons. Yes, I believe it. Demons? Yes. So, the faith I bring to them it's perverse. What is the
link between the devil and the sword? How can I preach? Instead of convincing them, because of the
blood we brought, we false the picture of God. but since you said that to us. Then they are also demons.
I am sorry eminence; I can't receive this argument it is badly articulated. Then rearticulate it! Spanish
soldiers or human but thirst for gold transforms them into demons. Continue professor.

All the nations on earth

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