23.

MEAT COURSES D E S M E D FOR STUDENTS I N HOME ECONOMICS,

HOTEL AND .RESTAURANT MANAGEMENT AND FOOD TECHNOLUGY

During the previous two reciprocal meat conferences we have had ex-
c e l l e n t papers followed by some very stimulating discussion on t h i s problem of
teaching meat courses t o groups other than majors i n Animal Husbandry. This
morning Professor Ziegler very adequately covered the subJect a s r e l a t e d t o
students in veterinary medicine and a g r i c u l t u r a l education. I believe we a l l
r e a l i z e the need for more uniformity i n the meat courses now offered by our
a g r i c u l t u r a l colleges f o r these groups. Since many schools may be adding
service courses i n meats t o t h e i r curriculum, an outline of the Objectives of
such courses and how t o approach these objectives is f i t t i n g a t t h i s time.

I would o u t l i n e the mador objectives of these service courses as

fOUOWS:
1. To develop a keener appreciation of the value o f
meat products as a food.

2. To stimulate an i n t e r e s t in the meat industry.

3. To familiarize the student with fhdamental mathe-

matics involved in meat merchandising and meal
planning.

4. To present broad animal husbandry aspects t o students

who have had no contact w i t h the subject.

It i s alwaye easy t o outline goals and e s t a b l i s h aims but usually

more d i f f i c u l t t o accomplish our purpose. Let us discuss each of these as
r e l a t e d to these t h r e e undergraduate groups.

To develop a deeper appreciation of the value o f meat a s a food we

must first recognize how l i t t l e students, especially the Hotel A h i n i e t r a t i o n
group, r e a l l y know about n u t r i t i o n . Their course work does not bring them i n
contact w i t h biochemistry o r courses i n n u t r i t i o n and consequently it is
necessary t o explain the value of protein in the d i e t and the importance of
moat as a 6ource of t h i s protein. These students a r e not aware of the r o l e of
meat as a source of vitamins, minerals and energy. To a l e s s e r extent t h i s is
t r u e of the food technology students. Both these groups and the home economic
students a r e not conscioua of the p e r i s h a b i l i t y of meat and meat products. Too
high a percentage of students, many o f them veterans, believe they do not l i k e
lamb u n t i l they have had an opportunity to sample lamb that ha6 been properly
prepared during a laboratory period. Through l e c t u r e s on meat composition,
moat cookery, l a r d and sausage and by laboratory work i n making wholesale and
r e t a i l cuts, and through product t e s t i n g , we attempt t o stimulate a keener ap-
preciation f o r meat as a food. We use over 50 per cent of our laboratory
periods i n our Hotel Administration and Hame Economics courses teaching the
i d e n t i f i c a t i o n of the wholesale and r e t a i l cuts of meat, a s many o f these
students w i l l need t h i s p r a c t i c a l knowledge.
24

Our second objective, stimulating an i n t e r e s t in the meat industry,

goes hand in hand w i t h the first. Through other courses students have the
conception that meat i n any c l a s s or grade i s available a t any time l i k e the
more familiar staple commodities. They do not r e a l i z e t h a t there a r e dif-
ferent grades of meat and variatione in grading. Seldom do students under-
stand the differences between mwt p d i n g and Federal Meat Inspection, It
takes a t least two detailed l e c t u r e s t o explain t h e m services clearly. Nor
do these students understand the methods o f pricing m e a t . &oy believe that
meat i s priced according t o i t a r e l a t i o n s h i p t o other parts of the carcaes
r a t h e r than the price of each wholesale cut depending on t h e law o f supply
and demand, X t i s a l s o hportant t o explain the i n t e r r e l a t i o n s h i p between
pork, beef and lamb. I n teaching meats t o students i n other fielde, we have
an opportunity t o s e l l the importance uf meat t o our national economy and t o
agriculture. We approach t h i s objective by preeenting lecture material on
meat economics, meat grading, meat inspection and meat preservation; and
through laboratory exercises i n packaging meat for freezer atorage and
curing; a f i e l d t r i p through a local branch house of one of the large
packers; and problems involving comparisone o f cuts made i n the laboratory
and t h e choice of cuts for various meale.

We believe that one of our most important duties is to teach these

students how t o use a pencil, Unfortunately many of the advanced students
a r e only "exposed t o Mdamental mathematics." Whether t h i s is a lack of
teaching simple arithmetic in our elementary schools or inadequate mathe-
m t i c s in college, i s an argument I do not wieh t o start. It i s e s s e n t i a l
that atudcnts i n Hotel A h i n i s t r a t i o n and Restaurant Management, as w e l l &e
Home Economics students, who expect t o work with meal planning know how t o
figure meal costs. We u e parts of several laboratory periods w i t h problems
involving meat costs. Problems a r e presented fkom almost every viewpoint so
that there ie no accepted "school solution." Xn aesigning problems we f're-
quently throw i n e x t r a f a c t a t o t r a i n the student to solve things l o g i c a l l y .
They must be able t o work w i t h boning percentages, cooking loeses and serv-
ing losses alono o r i n cambinations. Meal prices may be computed based upon
cost per pound of wholeeale meats and s i z e of cooked portion with variations
in boning and cooking l o s s e s . Meat purchases and portion s i z e may be
figured depending upon established faod cost8 and menu price. This work is
a l s o important to student6 i n food technology although we spend l e e s time on
it for them due t o the nature o f t h e i r course. A l l students are given some
work in meat merchandising. Usually current market quotations of wholesale
cut8 a r e used t o compute r e t a i l pricee depending upon t h e type of cuts made.

Each term t h a t a eection o f meats in Bote1 Adminietration o r Food

Technology is taught, the last objective is given more importance. Since
the meats course i e the only c l a s s i n animal science that the h o t e l students
a r e required t o take, and since most of the etudents in both groups have an
urban background, it is very Important that they should pick up aome of t h e
terms used i n the livestock industry and get a glimpse of the romance of
t h i s f i e l d . We use about an hour of two d i f f e r e n t laboratory discussion
periods t o explain t h e d e f i n i t i o n s of live terne, such as steer, h e i f e r ,
s t a g and b u l l . Following these periods a f i e l d t r i p i s made through the
animal husbandry ba~m8t o point o u t b r e e d s , types, market classes and live-
stock habite. One t r i p i s made through the c a t t l e barns and another through
t h e ahocp and swine b a n e . !Phis material is not included i n the home
economics courae.
 25.

Perhaps through t h i s method o f approaching my subject, I have

s l i g h t e d t h e Food Technology course. The Hotel Administration and Home
Economics courses as they are taught a t Michigan S t a t e a r e very similar, the
main difference being one more term c r e d i t and two hours more laboratory hours
per week f o r t h e h o t e l students. Thte affords them an opportunity t o do some
a c t u a l cutting o f carcasses and wholesale cute whereas we don’t f e e l the g i r l s
i n the Home Economics eections need this experience. Probably a f i f t h ob-
jectivo should be added t o this discussion t o do j u s t i c e to the Food
Tcchnology course, and we m i g h t s t a t e it t h i s way, “To t r a i n students in 8 8 -
t a b l i s h i n g methods of processing and c r i t i c a l l y evaluating meat and meat
producto.” About half t h e laboratory periods i n our Food Technology section
a r e devoted t o simple processing procodures and t o s t i n g of meats, such a s
making sausage w i t h varying ~ O U I Y ~ Sof seasoning, curing pork, t e s t i n g
freezer wrapping materials and comparing tenderness of aged meate.

Before closing t h i s paper X would l i k e t o cover another prospoctive

rcgarding our teaching methods i n these eemice courses. Those o f you who
servod i n t h e army need no introduction t o the five methods of instruction,
cxplanatilon, demonstration, application, examination and c r i t i q u e . Our
college l a c t u r e courses f’roquentlg use only the f i r s t method, explanation;
tho laboratory courses use the second method, demonstration; and sometimes
the t h i r d , application. It is my b e l i e f that the examination i s most mivuscd
a8 a teaching method. I d e n t i f i c a t i o n t e a t s i n the meats laboratory a r e an
exccllcnt method of tcaching the cuts. Students have t o l d m e many timcs t h a t
they loarned the wholesale and r e t a i l cuts of meat much e a s i e r becauee of our
wcekly t e s t e . Each i d e n t i f i c a t i o n t e a t i s awompanied by a c r i t i q u e so that
the student has a chance to l e a r n whore he wa8 wrong while the mistakes a r e
fresh in h i s mind. To be e f f e c t i v e , meats courses should include a l l five of
these methods of teaching although, with our present large classes and lack of
f b c i l i t i e e , the application method is more d i f f i c u l t t o use than t h e other
four.

I n Closing S would emphasize the importance o f teaching meats t o

these etudenta f r o m other f i e l d s . We have an opportunity t o s e l l meat and
meat products t o f i t u r e leaders i n h o t e l and restaurant management, home
economics teachers, food processors, d i e t i c i a n s and many others. It i s of
vital importance t o our liveatock economy that these students l e a r n to ap-
preciate meat, t o know something of the meat induetry and animal husbandry,
and to know how t o prepare meat t o Berm it a t i t s b e s t .

CHAIRMAN TOMHAVE: TWnk you, Professor Farwell. The discue-

sion on this very i n t e r e s t i n g pEtper w i l l be led by J . J . Wanderstock o f
Cornell Universiiy.

MR. WANDERSTOCK: Thank you, M r . Tomhave. I am sure a l l o f

UE were very much interested in the remarks t h a t Professor Farwell had
t o make. Hie speaking of these so-called service coursee reminds me of
the time I had a c a l l f r o m one o f the l a d i e s i n the Home Economics
college who s a i d that her experience with many of the students in Home
Economics and Hotel Administration was that they had very poor back-
grounds i n things other than certain specified i n t e r e s t s and she
wondered whether I could t r y to touch on topics other than meats i n t h e
meats course. 1 think she WELEI mainly aiming f o r discussion of the
26.

f a c t s of l i f e o r something of the s o r t because she mentioned that

every time she would say something i n one of her courses there would
be eome embarraeeed looks and she wondered whether we could c l a r i f y
t h a t . I think a l l of us would agree that we have enough t e r r i t o r y t o
cover and are n o t prepared t o go into some o f these other aspects.

We o f f e r a course i n meats t o Home Economics students and

t o Hotel A h i n i a t r a t i o n students a t Cornell. The cour8e i s required
of a Hotel Administration student regardless of whether he plans t o
go i n t o accounting work o r i n t o any end of the h o t e l business o r even
i n t o an endeavor outside of the h o t e l business. Professor Meek, who
i e d i r e c t o r of-' the echool, f e e l s that meats is one of the very im-
portant courses for hotel people t o take and so he requires it of
we always have "standing room" --
them. The Home Economics students are not required t o take meats, b u t
because we have n o t been able t o
satisfg a l l of those people who want t o take our meats work. I think
many of you people probably find yourmlves in t h e very same position.
F a c i l i t i e s , personnel, and so on, do not enable us t o c a t e r t o the
number o f people who would l i k e t o take work in meats.

Do any of you have any s p e c i f i c questions you would l i k e to

ask Professor Farwell on t h e subject of courses f o r home economics
students, h o t e l and food technology students?

MR. ZIEGIER: I n the course that you o f f e r t o tho h o t e l ad-

minietration students you were talking about r e t a i l cuts. I n our in-
s t i t u t i o n it i s a required courae for Hotel Administration students
and we do very l i t t l e with r e t a i l cuts. Ours a r e i n s t i t u t i o n a l cuts.
We f'urnish meat t o t h e dining room through a new foods building that
we have, and there is a c e r t a i n way that we have t o fabricate the
meat f o r the dining h a l l . We set that up a t t h e time t h i s building
went into operation. I went down there with the chefs and the three
meat c u t t e r s that we have and we worked out the system that they
wanted. That is t h e one that we follow, although I intersperse t h a t
w i t h two o r three other methods o f fhbricating meats f o r i n s t i t u t i o n s ,
and the only time we incorporate r e t a i l cutting is when we a r e
c u t t i n g up s i d e s o f beef f o r lockers. We s e l l some sides of beef o r
quarters and we cut them a t r e t a i l and the students wrap them. Of
course, the only thing we require is that they m i a h the paper and
118 make no service charge a t a l l , b u t if it happens t o be the aecond
time and our students have had the experience of wrapping and a l l
t h a t , I say %o, three cents a pound and you furnish the paper,"
because we am not giving t h i s service away. We w i l l do it for
nothing f o r them t o get the experience, But by t h i s matter of r e t a i l
cuts I suppose you mean i n s t i t u t i o n a l cuts.

MR. FARWELZI: I think I m i g h t answer it t h i s way. I do not

remember the figure any more, but educators t e l l us that we forget a
c e r t a i n percentage of w h a t we l e a r n i n about twenty-four hours and
then more of it and we a r e lucky if we r e t a i n about 5 per cent of it
in a year o r so. T h a t is probably way o f f the l i n e as far as the
a c t u a l percentages go, but I know that it may be very d i f f i c u l t for
students t o l e a r n t o t e l l the difference between a s i r l o i n steak and
a T-bone steak and it is more d i f f i c u l t f o r them t o t e l l t h e four
s i r l o i n steaks apart, but once they get those so they know them
 27.

f a i r l y w e l l , when they g e t out, of coursel they a r e c e r t a i n l y going t o

remember that there is such a t h i n g as a s i r l o i n a year *om now which
i s the wholesale cut that maily of them w i l l be dealing with.

Another thing when they work around restaurants it i s very

nice i f they can t a l k t o the chef i n the kitchen and know something
about the r e t a i l cuts t h a t he io going t o be serving, If they know how
t o make some of those cuts it comes i n p r e t t y handy because they
develop a l o t more appreciation f o r themselves i n new jobs when they
f i r s t leave college. I know they have said many times that the work
they got i n t h e meats course was the most valuable part o f t h e i r t r a i n -
ing when they got out on the job.

I wonder, Professor Ziegler, do you handle your Home

Economics students the same way? Do you make r e t a i l cuts f o r them?

MR. ZSEGIXR: Yes, f o r the Home Economics students we cut a t

r e t a i l and we do some i n s t i t u t i o n a l cutting, too. Everything has t o be
boneless cuts. I blame the managers of the dining room f o r t h a t .
They blame it on the chefs. The speed a t which food has t o be served.
It has t o be i n s o l i d chunks o f a certain diameter, and when it i s
cooked it goes through the s l i c i n g machine. There i s no hand carving.
Thio is a l l speed. I n one place they serve one thousand boys and i n
another place one thousand g i r l s and it i s 8 matter of speed. We tmnt
the g i r l s t o recognize r e t a i l cuts and what we do, as I mentioned in my
t a l k , i s a f t e r they a r e through cutting--for instance, we cut a l o i n of
beef s t a r t i n g a t the r i b end, r i g h t s t r a i g h t through t o the b u t t end
s i r l o i n . Those cuts a r e l a i d out on the t a b l e and the students name
them. They do that oeveral times and i f they do not know f l a t bone from
round bone s i r l o i n o r pin bone steak, it is not because we do n o t t r y
t o d r i l l it into them.

MR. WANDERSTOCK: M y experience has been t h a t there is no

standard i n s t i t u t i o n a l s t y l e of cutting. I have been i n contact with
uome of the b i g hotel ouppliers i n New York and I have a l s o written t o
the packers and I have not found a standardized system. Many of the
hotels vary i n t h e i r s t y l e s , and in order t o g e t them a l l on a common
l e v e l I think we probably should spend more time with the r e t a i l cuts
as Profeesor Farwell mentioned they do a t Michigan and as you probably
do a t Penn S t a t e .

MR. BRATZUZ: It is our idea t h a t i f we can teach h o t e l

students in the course i n Home Economics so that they can t e l l a short
l o i n of beef from a beef r i b and a chuck of beef From a beef round we
have accomplished our purpose, and i f they do not know the r e t a i l cuts
they w i l l not mow the wholeaale cuts. I b a t t l e d t h a t out with the
administrator in Home Economics, and a l l she wants t o do is teach
grading so t h a t her g i r l s w i l l buy beef i n t e l l i g e n t l y . But I maintain
they have to know the r e t a i l cuts i n order to know the wholesale cuts,
and so i n i d e n t i f i c a t i o n i f ' we put out a l o i n r i b cut they not only
have t o t e l l us how t o cook it but a comparable beef cut and a
comparable pork cut so that they can associate one kind of meat with
another. Tom's idea is very good b u t I think that ought t o follow in
EL second course.
28.

Personally I have d i f f i c u l t y i n t e l l i n g a boneless cut in

Kanaas City and Chicago. I have t o turn it over three o r four times
myself. I some t h e e pride myself on knowing something about meats,
b u t 1 do not think the h o t e l students could t e l l the boneless beef
cute. That is p r e t t y rough.

MR. W E L L I ” : I n regard t o the Home Economics’ graduates,

I have found that the one thing the Home Economic extension workers
around t h e s t a t e wanted help on was teaching r e t a i l c u t s . O f course,
they a r e j u e t one segment of the graduatin@;seniors i n home economics
and they are not altrays too anxioua t o aek for help, b u t the one thing
they 8eem t o want help on is teaching r e t a i l cuts, and I think that we
need t o do a good job with them on t b t .

MR, wANlBRSTOCK: About how much emphasis do you place on

carving? Do you teach any work in carving t o these students?

MR. FARWELL: We place very l i t t l e emphasis on it. I t i s a

place where you should i f you can find time f o r it, but we find d i f -
f i c u l t y i n taking up all the thinge we want t o take up. We do take up
carving when we are t a l k i n g about pricing various cuts, e t c . , but
very l i t t l e .

MR. C A H I U : In view of the number o f hours epent i n c l a s s

in t h e majority of our meat courses in proportion t o the c r e d i t , do
you attempt t o plan in your methods outside work o r do you attempt t o
l i m i t it t o cfase work mainly?

MR, FARWJILL: The theory a t Michigan State College i s about

three hours o f work per c r e d i t . With seven houre in class we feel
t h a t there ehould be some outside work and we do aseign problems f o r
outside, They r e a l i z e t h a t these i d e n t i f i c a t i o n t e s t s a r e coming up
every week and they have t o spend 8 considerable amount of time, a f t e r
they have had demonstrations of cuts and made some o f them themselves,
going over the meats manual and going over the cuts t h a t a r e l i s t e d in
there. So they spend the full amount of time f o r t h e i r c r e d i t hours.
I trou3.d say they eaatly spend three o r four hours a week outside.

MR. WNDERSTOCK: Any other comments or questions?

Mft. TYLER: We think i d e n t i f i c a t i o n is p r e t t y important.

The system we have been using probably everybody uses. We s a c r i f i c e
one carcam i n beef, pork and lamb a t the beginning o f the quarter.
We make those r e t a i l cuts and then freeze them. When we kill a hog,
for example, we w i l l have a r e t a i l c l a s s and give questions on it.
Me w i l l freeze them, Then we w i l l come out with lamb. We w i l l have
lamb and pork together. Even lamb, beef and pork. Then we have a
f i n a l on aJ-1 three. They a r e put back i n t o the freezer and brought
out each time. Perhaps the cuts do not look exactly l i k e we should
l i k e t o 8ee t h e m look, buC it does work p r e t t y well.

ME?, ZIEGm: Are these cuts wrapped?

8ARWELL: Yes, sir.

 29.

MR. ZIEGI;ER: In cellophane?

MR. FmbELL: No, we unwrap them. They a r e out about two

hours and then we wrap them up and put them back again.

MR, ZIEGLEFt: I have t r i e d that w i t h pliofilm and it does not

work too badly.

MR, FmW3I.L: The boys have learned that they have t o rub
t h e i r hands on them t o g e t the f’rost o f f occaeionally but it works
p r e t t y well.

MR. WAMIERSTOCK: How many o f you use s l i d e s o r visual aids

t o help with these i d e n t i f i c a t i o n s a8 a brush up? Any? (3)

A r e there any other questions?

MR. POJILOCIL: How many o f you think that s l i d e s would be

--
valuable in your teaching work f o r i d e n t i f i c a t i o n colored s l i d e s ?
(Everybody) I should like t o have you s e t up a committee, M r . Tomhave,
and give us a l i s t of the cuts they want.

MR. TOMHAVE: T h a t i s the duty of the Executive Committee.

MR. WANIERSTOCK: b7e have a r a t h e r complete set of slides.

Professor Wellington, Professor Miller and several others and I have
been working on using kodachrome, two by two. I imagine many of you
have your own s e t s . They work very well. We use those as a l i t t l e
brush up in addition t o the a c t u a l cuts of meats. They have i d e n t i f i -
cation questions every single time they have a c t u a l cuts and then i f
we can throw in s l i d e s occasionally that helps them a l i t t l e remember-
ing cuts.

MR, ZIEGLER: I have one more question I ehould l i k e t o ask,

t o see whether the students a t Michigan S t a t e a r e the same as they a r e
a t Penn S t a t e . We find that the Rotel Administration group a r e cocky
and irresponsible. We can pick them out invariably from among our
Animal Husbandry o r Agricultural students.

MR, FARWEU: I should l i k e t o answer that t h i s way, personal-

l y I l i k e to teach Hotel Administration students because they a r e some
o f t h e smartest students we. have on the campus. They are smart, too,
i n other ways, b u t i f you can g e t them i n the first week of t h e work t o
r e a l l y appreciate the course -- and most of them do because they have
some courses they do not appreciate -- and you can get them t o s e t t l e
down they become some of your best students because they do grasp things
e a s i l y . We only have t o put one of those problems in mathematics on the
board and g e t them conAreed once, even the good students, and they a r e
willing t o s i t down and l i s t e n t o us explain a problem. If they a r e
not willing t o l i s t e n , give them a good tough problem i n the quiz s o
they w i l l a l l miss it and l o s e 10 o r 15 points and they w i l l be more
willing to l i s t e n . Occasionally you w i l l have a number o f students
who get i n your h a i r b u t I think i-n a laboratory course you have an
excellent means of taking care of those students.
30.

MR. ANIEFBON: How many of you men have s l i d e machines that

you have actual control o f o r t h a t you can u8e any time conditions
present themselves? I should like t o survey t h i s group. About two-
t h i r d s . We have d i f f i c u l t y a t Minnesota where the material i e a l l
headed up under the Division of V i s u a l Education. We have t o order
those machtnes beforehand and we can only uee them for the one period.
Lots of times we want t o use s l i d e s periodically o r as the time a r -
rivers.

MR. b R S T O C K : I w i l l turn the program back t o MI-.

Tomhave.

CHAIRMAN TOMBAVE: Thank you very much, M r . Wanderstock. I

know you could continue t h i e discussion for eome time, but we w i l l
have t o proceed with the program.

.
We have M r . George B Tupper, o f the Ruesell-Harrington
Cutlery Company, who has asked permission t o present h i s e x h i b i t and
a l s o mke a f e w remarks about the e x h i b i t . M r . Tupper.

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