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DUPLICATE .TRANSCRIPT
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DUPLICATE A No. 10 KA 216'

,
SUPREME COURT OFTHE STATE OF LOUISIANA
Volume N&LU D F X W1
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Filed

AP I? ELLE E
Plaintiff and
VERSUS

F E L T O N DEJUAN DORSEY
I

SUPREME COURT OF LOUISIANA

Filed

APPELLANT
Defendant and JAN 2 6 2010
..
UClerk
APPEAL FROM
TheF'RST
Judicial District Court for the
CADDO
Pariah of
- ~d51,406 HON . J O H N MOSELY , J R .
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\ Judgo

BRADY 0 ' CALLAGHAN

J . DHU THOMPSON
ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEYS STATE-APPELLEE
Counrel for
CADDO PARISH CDUKFHOUSE
SHREVEPORT LA 71101

CAP T T AT A PP EAT,S PR 0.TEC.T

I nEFENDANT-APPELLANT
Counrel for
636 BARONNE STREET, FLOOR 3

NEW ORLEANS LA 70113-1004

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CASE NUlvlEEK : 2 5 14 06 (CONT' 0 )
CASE NUMBER: 2 5 :I. 4 0G ((30N'I" D!
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1 IN T.HE F I R S T J U D I C I A L D I S T R I C T C O U R T

2 IN AND FOR PARISH O F C A D D O

3 SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA

7 STATE OF LOUISIANA

8 VERSUS C A S E NO.: 251406'

9 FELTON DEJUAN DORSEY :

10

11

12 T R A N S C R I P T OF T H E P R O C E E D I N G S H A D

13 in the t r i a l of t h e above- styled a n d n u m b e r e d

1 4 cause before H I S HONOR J O H N D . M O S E L Y , J R . ,

15 J u d g e o f the First J u d i c i a l D i s t r i c t C o u r t , i n

16 a n d f o r C a d d o Parish, a t S h r e v e p o r t ,

17 L o u i s i a n a , on the 14th d a y o f M a y , 2 0 0 9 , A.D.

18

19

20 APPEARANCES:

21 MR. C H A R L E S R. S C O T T
Caddo Parish District Attorney
22

23 MR. B R A D Y O ' C A L L A G H A N
MR. J. D H U T H O M P S O N
24 Assistant District Attorneys

26D[
lr
27

28 MR. D A V I D R. M C C L A T C H E Y
M R . GLEN G A R R E T
29 MS. M I C H E L L E A. A N D R E P O N T
Assistant I n d i g e n t D e f e n d e r s
30

31
Reported b y :
32 . V i c k i D. B e g g s
Official Court Reporter CSR
 I -
- N -
D -
E -
X

VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N : PAGE :

M a r k Na.tale

C h e r y l D . Thornton

J o a n n S . Stewart
I r m a L. E d w a r d s

Ronald T. Olague

Danny W a l k e r

M o n i c a M. H i c k s

Carlita R. Dixon

C h a r l e s W a l t e r s , Jr.

Sharon Snelling

Marvin Jefferson

i E x a m i n a t i o n b y the D e f e n s e . . . .158
1 D e f e n s e c h a l l e n g e s f o r cause. . -163

I
i
I
Ii
I

I
 1 VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N :

2 Nicholas Burks

3 Deloris Harris

4 Theresa Williams
5 Randolph Dozier
6 Reather Barnes

7 Teresa Yeates

a Kris St. Pierre

9 Angela Johnson

10 Cynthia Andrews

11 Thomas Dewett

12 Jeffrey Smith

13 Cheryl Mouser

14 L a s h u n d a Knowles
15 Eddie Dennis

16 Rico Jones

17 Carl Staples

18 Malcolm Brown

19

20 E x a m i n a t i o n by the S t a t e . . . . . 2 7 6
E x a m i n a t i o n b y the D e f e n s e . . . - 3 1 6
21 S t a t e c h a l l e n g e s f o r cause. . . . 3 2 1
State challenges for cause. . . . 3 3 3
22 D e f e n s e c h a l l e n g e s f o r cause. . - 3 3 3
S t a t e c h a l l e n g e s f o r cause. . . . 3 3 4
23 Defense challenges for cause. . . 3 3 5
State challenges for cause. . . . 3 3 9
24

25

26

. 27

28

29

30

31

32

3
3

5719
 Klru
e7

MORNING SESSION

May 1 4 , 2009

WHEREUPON . . .
t h e f o l l o w i n g p r o c e e d i n g s were h a d :

( W h e r e u p o n t h e d e f e n d a n t was p r e s e n t w i t h

counsel. 1

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: For t h e r e c o r d , this

i s S t a t e of Louisiana v s . F e l t o n Dorsey. The

defendant i s present; on h i s b e h a l f are

10 Mr. G l e n G a r r e t a n d Ms. Michelle AndrePont

11 from t h e , p u b l i c d e f e n d e r ' s o f f i c e . There are

12 no p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r s p r e s e n t . Present for the

13 S t a t e a r e Brady O ' C a l l a g h a n , Dhu Thompson and

14 District Attorney Charles Scott,.

15 MR. GARRET: Glen G a r r e t f o r t h e

16 defense, and M r . Golden and M r . McClatchey,

17 I ' m sure, a r e on t h e i r w a y .

18 (Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e r e c o r d was

19 held.) I
20 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Your H o n o r , I've

21 i d e n t i f i e d on e a c h o f the s e t s of photographs,

22 I have w r i t t e n a s m a l l h a n d w r i t t e n number on

23 t h e back of each f o r reference purposes, so

24 t h e y c a n a l l l i t e r a l l y b e on t h e s a m e p a g e

25 when d i s c u s s i n g t h e contents of those

26 photographs.

27 I would a l s o n o t e t h a t t h i s morning t h e

28 S t a t e provided defense counsel w i t h a CD

29 c o n t a i n i n g a u t o p s y p h o t o s r e c e i v e d from

30 Dr.. P e r e t t i j u s t t o be c l e a r f o r t h e r e c o r d .

31 Originally, t h e S t a t e had autopsy. photos that

32 it tendered t o defense, t h e y were actually

 1 t a k e n by Deputy J e f f Thomas who a c c o m p a n i e d

2 Mr. P r o c k ' s body t o A r k a n s a s a n d p h o t o g r a p h e d

3 it there. The S t a t e o n l y i n t e n d s t o u s e t w o

4 of D r . Peretti's actual photographs since a l l

5 the others are essentially duplicative with

6 t h e ones t h a t D e p u t y Thomas t o o k . That CD a l s o

7 c o n t a i n s a d d i t i o n a l s t i l l frames c a p t u r e d from

8 video previously tendered t o defense counsel

9 f r o m a surveillance camera, I can't think of

10 t h e a d d r e s s -- t h e 9000 block of

11 G r e e n w o o d S p r i n g r i d g e Road a n d a n o t h e r p h o t o

12 of t h e v i c t i m b e f o r e t h i s i n c i d e n t t o be used

13 f o r identification p u r p o s e s .

14 'MR. GARRET: Your H o n o r , defense

15 acknowledges r e c e i p t of t h e CD from

16 Mr. O'Callaghan.

17 THE C O U R T : A l l right.

18 MR. GARRET: Even t h o u g h M r . Golden and

19 Mr. McClatchey have n o t a r r i v e d , we are

20 p r e p a r e d t o go f o r w a r d w i t h t h e m o t i o n i f

2 1 that's t h e Court p l e a s u r e .

22 THE COURT: We w i l l w a i t .

23 MR. GARRET: Okay. Thank y o u .

24 (Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e r e c o r d was ~

25 held.)

26 MR. GARRET: We a r e n o t sure that

27 Mr. Golden i n t e n d s t o a t t e n d . So g o i n g I
28 without h i m might be t h e proper course t o

29 take.

30 THE COURT: Okay. A r e y o u r e a d y to

31 a r g u e now?

32 MR. GARRET: Yes, Your Honor.

 ~

1 THE COURT: Do y o u w i s h t o p r o c e e d

2 w i t h o u t Mr. G o l d e n ?

3 MR. GARRET: I wish t o p r o c e e d without

4 Mr. G o l d e n .

THE C O U R T : All right. You may.

MR. G A R R E T : May i t p l e a s e t h e Court

and c o u n s e l , this h e a r i n g c o n c e r n s a ' m o t i o n

f i l e d b y the d e f e n s e t o e x c l u d e c e r t a i n c o l o r

p h o t o g r a p h s o f t h e s c e n e a n d o f t h e victim and

10 the S t a t e h a s filed a n o p p o s i t i o n . We cited

11 in o u r m o t i o n f o u r t e e n L o u i s i a n a S u p r e m e Court

, 12 c a s e s a n d Article 4 0 3 o f t h e C o d e o f E v i d e n c e

13 a s w e l l -a s several other cases. I would

1 4 normally s a y w e filed fourteen supreme court

15 c a s e s in s u p p o r t of o u r p o s i t i o n s , b u t

16 a c t u a l l y , we filed s o m e c a s e s w h e r e t h e p h o t o s

17 were admitted, some where they were excluded

18 and some where the Court permitted a

19 low-contrast black and white substitution.

20 T h e d i f f e r e n t o u t c o m e s of t h e s e c a s e s

2 1 a r e b a s e d on d i f f e r e n t f a c t s . W h i l e t h e f a c t s

22 d i f f e r , the l a w d o e s n o t d i f f e r . It's

23 consistent and it applies the balancing test

24 o f C o d e of Evidence, A r t i c l e 4 0 3 o f the

25 p r o b a t i v e value v e r s u s p r e j u d i c i a l e f f e c t . '

26 We b e l i e v e in t h i s c a s e t h e f a c t s a t

27 i s s u e c a n b e s h o w n t h r o u g h t e s t i m o n y by the

28 c o r o n e r , by t h e p o l i c e o f f i c e r s , a n d t h e r e i s

29 n o p r o b a t i v e value t o t h e s e p h o t o g r a p h s a n d ,

30 o f c o u r s e , if t h e r e ' s n o p r o b a t i v e v a l u e , the

31 prejudicial effect would outweigh. We also

32 h a v e s t a t e d we a r e p r e p a r e d t o e n t e r i n t o a

6
5729
necessary or material evidence in a criminal

prosecution, it should be excluded. I'm

sorry. That was S t a t e v. M o r g a n .

In S t a t e v . M o r r i s which we cited,

157 So. 2d. 728, the Court said t h a t t h e test

of admissibility is whether unpleasant,

gruesome or horrifying photographs as well as

the probative value of the photographs

outweighs the probable prejudicial effect.

Accordingly, photographs should be excluded

where their logical relevancy will

unquestionably be overwhelmed by the

inherently prejudicial nature of the

particular picture. And photographs which are

calculated to arouse the sympathies or

prej,udices of a jury are properly excluded if

they are entirely irrelevant or not

substantially necessary t o show material facts

or conditions.

And in this instance, a s we d o not

1
believe there is any issue concerning the

facts and as we are willing t o enter a

stipulation, we do not believe that they are

substantially necessary.

In S t a t e v. L i n d s a y , 404 So.2d. 466, it

said that the nature of photographs so

gruesome as to overwhelm reason and cause a

jury to lose sight of the need for a

prosecutor to establish with sufficient

independent evidence the guilt o f the accused,

they must be relevant to describe the person,

place o r thing. A stipulation to the matter

I
 ~~

1 s o u g h t t o be p r o v e d by t h e p h o t o g r a p h s

2 n e c e s s a r i l y b e a r s u p o n a b a l a n c i n g o f the

p r o b a t i v e value o f the p h o t o g r a p h s a n d t h e i r

prejudicial effect.

N o w , s o m e l a n g u a g e in t h i s c a s e a n d in

6 another case, i t t a l k s about t h e l e g i t i m a t e

7 m o r a l f o r c e o f the S t a t e ' s case. We don't
8 take i s s u e with the c o n c e p t t h a t the S t a t e i s

9 entitled to a legitimate moral force of its

10 case. We want to b e a b l e t o m a i n t a i n a

11 legitimate moral force of our case as w e l l .

12 The Court does not define "moral force." It

13 does not describe it. I t d o e s n o t g i v e any

14 parameters. It d o e s n o t s t a t e w h a t it is. I

15 don't know that it's clear w h e t h e r moral force

16 a p p l i e s t o the penalty p h a s e o r t h e g u i l t

17 phase; however, one thing that is clear is

t h a t moral force d o e s n o t s a y m o r a l

19 ascendancy.

20 The d e f e n d a n t h a s a p r e s u m p t i o n o f

2 '1 i n n o c e n c e , the S t a t e h a s t h e b u r d e n o f p r o o f ,

a n d I d o n o t believe t h a t we s h o u l d r e l a x t h e

23 r u l e s o f e v i d e n c e f o r the S t a t e a n d t h e S t a t e

a l o n e , so t h a t i t c o u l d a s s u m e a n y m o r a l

25 s u p e r i o r i t y with the j u r y w i t h r e g a r d t o

26 w i t n e s s e s o r evidence o r a r g u m e n t . So

27 w h a t e v e r moral f o r c e m e a n s , w e a r e f o r i t , and

28 we want the s a m e thing.

29 In S t a t e v . W a t s o n , 4 4 9 So. 2 d . 1321,

30 i t s a y s p o s t m o r t e m p h o t o g r a p h s o f ,a m u r d e r

31 victim are a d m i s s i b l e t o p r o v e c o r p u s d e l i c t i ,

32 t o c o r r o b o r a t e o t h e r e v i d e n c e e s t a b l i s h i n g the
 ~~ ~

1 cause o f death and to provide p o s i t i v e

2 identification. I d o not b e l i e v e those

3 photographs will be necessary t o p r o v e any o f

4 t h o s e i t e m s , Your Honor. It also says that an

5 offered stipulation bears upon the balancing
'6 test.

7 I ' m almost done with c a s e s .

8 S t a t e v . M y l e s , 389 S o . 2d. 12, t h e picture to

9 w h i c h t h e d e f e n d a n t o b j e c t s i s a low contrast
10 black and white made at the morgue showing
11 only the victim's head and a p r o b e inserted in

12 the two gunshot wounds. The C o u r t also refused

13 to admit a color photograph o f the s a m e scene.

14 So in this case, the Court permitted low

15 contrast black and white a s being l e s s

16 prejudicial and d i d n o t . a l l o w the S t a t e to put

17 i n color photographs.

18 Now, one case in which the C o u r t

19 admitted evidence is S t a t e v . Kirkpatrick,

20 443 S o . 2 d . 546. The four c o l o r photographs

21 i n that case depicted the m u r d e r s c e n e a s i t

22 was found. And that i s n o t t h e c a s e wit.h the

23 photographs we have at issue.

24 We hlave at issue p h o t o g r a p h s after the

25 b o d y was moved. We have photographs after the

26 coroner altered it. We have p h o t o g r a p h s t h a t

27 are just gruesome.

J

28 I have two more I want t o b r i n g to the

29 Court's attention, S t a t e v . P r e j e a n ,

30 379 So. 2d.' 240. The d e f e n d a n t c o n t e n d s ,

31 however, t h a t in light o f the s t i p u l a t i o n he

32 offered a s to the circumstances o f the case,

10
5726
 ._
i
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1 the pictures had no probative value

2 whatsoever. That i s the s i t u a t i o n w e are

3 requesting. Obviously, we cannot solely enter

4 i n t o a stipulation. The State would have to

5 agree. I t i s our desire t o d o so.

6 The proposition that where the

d e f e n d a n t stipulated to excluding a l l the

photographs - - I'm sorry - - the d e f e n s e

10
stipulated to all the facts t o w h i c h allegedly

gruesome photographs would b e r e l e v a n t , the

I
11

12
T r i a l Court would a c t properly i n e x c l u d i n g

the photographs from evidence.

I
13

14
And the last one I want to cite is

where they were admitted. T h i s i s

I
15 457 So. 2d. 616 -- and a l l of these a r e in our

16 motion - - the Court said it was e r r o r to allow

1'7 introduction of photographs o f t h e victim's

18 mutilated body. This evidence was relevant - -

19 I'm sorry. I t was not error to a l l o w

20 introduction o f photographs o f the victim's

2 1 mutilated body. T h i s evidence was relevant to

22 whether the murder was c o m m i t t e d i n a n

23 especially cruel, heinous and a t r o c i o u s manner

24 which i s not at issue i n t h i s c a s e . And i t s I

25 probative value for this purpose o u t w e i g h s its

26 prejudicial effect. And again t h o s e f a c t s are

27 not operative in t h i s c a s e .

28 And so, Your Honor, the j u d g e s a n d the

29 trial c o u r t s involved have come t o different

30 conclusions based on the facts of the case. I I

31 t h i n k the facts are very c o n s i s t e n t and the

32 findings are very consistent t h a t u n l e s s the

I
 -- .

!,'
L-.
0
photographs are needed to provide material

proof of a fact, they are purely prejudicial,

especially in an environment where if there

are any facts the State feels are not going to

be proved adequately by t h e coroner or the

police and other experts, we will stipulate t o

those facts, and we intend to d o so.

In view of that, Your Honor, there

wouldn't seem to be a probative value that

outweighs the prejudicial effect. The

probative value i s probably z e r o in this c a s e

in terms of the S t a t e ' s moral force; again,

that's not moral ascendancy, and we believe

the testimony will demonstrate considerable

moral f o r c e . W e h o p e o u r s has s o m e moral

force, too, b u t we have no doubt that the
State's case without these photographs will

have moral force. Accordingly, we would like

t o exclude the subject photographs and of the

photographs that have just been offered, we

would seek to exclude a number of those, if

not all. Thank you.

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Your Honor, the most

glaring omission from defense c o u n s e l ' s

argument i s that ignores the State's point

that cause of death i s not the only thing the

State i s obligated, or attempting, t o prove by

the introduction of these photographs. For

example, in the coroner's case, we are also

obligated to prove the specific intent to

kill. The jury's ability to see the inwardly

7

beveled skull of the victim shows the amount

 o f force used on his head was i n c o n s i s t e n t

with an accidental blow. The number of

strikes to his head i s inconsistent with an

accidental killing. And the d e f e n s e c a n ' t

stipulate to specific intent if t h e y are

disputing identity. They c a n ' t s a y , well, i t

wasn't our guy, but whoever i t was intended to

kill. I f they were going to s t i p u l a t e t o

identity and intent, perhaps we're - - at that

10 point, we are a t a guilty plea, we might as

11 well d o that. What the d e f e n s e s e e k s to d o i s

12 essentially strip the p r o s e c u t i o n ' s case o f

13 detail. It attempts to strip i t o f i t s moral

14 force and replace that instead with dry

15 testimony that could be extremely confusing to

16 the jury.

17 We are talking about the c o r o n e r

18 explaining the subgaleal h e m o r r h a g e s and

19 testifying about skull beveling. T h e s e are not

20 things that without visual corroboration a

21 typical juror is likely to u n d e r s t a n d .

22 As I g o through the p h o t o g r a p h s , what I

23 would like to do, if the C o u r t c o u l d follow

24 along, is direct the C o u r t ' s a t t e n t i o n to what

25 the State n e e d s each picture for. W e have

26 carefully whittled down from d o z e n s of w h a t I

27 would call explicit photographs d o w n t o the

28 o n e s we presented to Your H o n o r . I would like

29 proceed through them a n d e x p l a i n to the C o u r t

30 why we need each of them.

31 I am going through n u m e r i c a l order. We

32 have numbered these now, and I w o u l d assume a I

c o p y w i l l be p l a c e d in the r e c o r d , t h e y are

h a n d m a r k e d on the b a c k with t h e n u m b e r s t o

w h i c h I a m referring. T h e p h o t o g r a p h number

o n e was taken of the victim J o e P r o c k a f t e r

the crime scene h a d a l r e a d y b e e n p r o c e s s e d .

H i s h a n d s are bagged. T h i s p h o t o g r a p h i s

e s s e n t i a l because it was t a k e n b y F i r e Marshal

J i m Alexander. Now, Fire M a r s h a l

J i m A l e x a n d e r d o e s an a n a l y s i s o f t h e house

a n d d o e s a reconstruction of t h e p o i n t s of

o r i g i n o f the fire, a n d o n e o f t h e f a c t o r s

t h a t h e h a d t o e x a m i n e in d e t e r m i n i n g where

t h e d i f f e r e n t f i r e s were, w a s the f i r e t h a t

was p l a c e d on J o e P r o c k ' s b o d y made a t the

s a m e location where Ms. P r o c k s a i d i t w a s , in

the r e a r family room, a n d w a s t h a t a n

i n d e p e n d e n t source o f i g n i t i o n . That is

r e l e v a n t b e c a u s e a g g r a v a t e d a r s o n i s an

e l e m e n t o f the c h a r g e i n t h i s c a s e . So we

should be permitted to present that evidence

t o c o r r o b o r a t e a n d s u p p o r t Mr. A l e x a n d e r ' s

t e s t i m o n y , a n d h i s o b s e r v a t i o n s o f J o e ' s body

that night was part of his determination.

I w o u l d a l s o n o t e t h a t the n o t i o n that

b l a c k a n d white p h o t o g r a p h s c o u l d b e

s u b s t i t u t e d , I u n d e r s t a n d t h a t in s o m e c a s e s

w h e r e they c o u l d b e t h e c a s e , t h e p r o b l e m is,

M r . Prock i s horribly b u r n e d a n d t h e

d i f f e r e n t i a l in s k i n color f r o m t h a t b u r n i n g

i s n e c e s s a r y for the w i t n e s s e s t o b e a b l e t o

o p i n e a b o u t what t h e i r o b s e r v a t i o n o f t h e

b o d y t o l d them. And t o s u g g e s t t h a t

14
5730
 !

M r . Alexander g e t t i n g o n t h e w i t n e s s s t a n d and

s a y i n g , well, I s a w s o m e s t u f f o n J o e P r o c k ' s

b o d y t h a t made me b e l i e v e h e w a s an

i n d e p e n d e n t point o f o r i g i n s i m p l y i s n ' t

c o m p e l l i n g t o the jury a s t o t h a t f a c t . A n d we

6 s h o u l d be allowed to p r o v e to t h e j u r y exactly

7 w h e r e the f i r e s were s e t , h o w t h e y w e r e s e t ,

8 h o w l o n g they b u r n e d , a l l o f t h o s e t h i n g s ,

9 b e c a u s e aggravated a r s o n a n d t h e i n t e n t t o

10 k i l l more than one person are b o t h e l e m e n t s

Ofl

11 this crime.

12 Ms. Bobbie Prock w a s l e f t t a p e d t o a

13 chair in that house, and the severity, extent

14 a n d l o c a t i o n a l l of the f i r e s a r e e s s e n t i a l in

15 proving that they intended t o leave her t o

1 6 die. Now, that's not just asking for moral

17 force. That's asking to be allowed to prove

18 e s s e n t i a l e l e m e n t s o f t h e c r i m e s ch.arged in

19 t h e indictment.

20 As to photograph two, I don't think

21 t h a t t h i s one a c t u a l l y c o u l d b e c h a r a c t e r i z e d

22 as gruesome. T h i s is a p h o t o g r a p h o f the

23 v i c t i m c o v e r e d with a s h e e t a s h e w a s d o n e by

24 firemen. T h a t i s p a r t of t h e i r n a r r a t i v e ,

25 s h o w i n g what they d i d when t h e y r e s p o n d e d .

26 You k n o w , the n o t i o n t h a t b e c a u s e w i t n e s s e s

27 m o v e d M r . Prock o u t of the b u r n i n g h o u s e where

28 he was on fire means that somehow there is no

29 r e l e v a n c e to the p h o t o g r a p h s o f w h e r e h e ended

30 u p w h e n t h o s e witnesses w i l l b e a v a i l a b l e to

31 t e s t i f y and explain exactly w h a t t h e y d i d i s

32 to me, it doesn't hold together as logical.

15
5731.
 This shows what the firemen did with
t h e Joe's body. This shows where t h e y had to
move him and the steps they took t o preserve

the integrity of his condition a n d s h i e l d him

from the view o f others. I t a l s o depicts, o f

cours,e, the binding on his a n k l e s which i s

relevant t o the element of k i d n a p p i n g which i s

also a predicate felony f o r f i r s t d e g r e e

murder.

As to State's Exhibit 3, Y o u r ' H o n o r ,

this is a photograph showing J o e ' s condition

as observed by the crime scene personnel.
What we are talking about here i s c r i m e scene

personnel who were trying to r e c o n s t r u c t and

determine the sequence of events. Now, they

have an account from M s . Bobbie P r o c k , but she

is extremely distraught. S h e ' s in t h e

emergency room being treated for b u r n s and

s m o k e inhalation. I t ' s relevant to their

investigation to show what Joe's condition was

at the t i m e and the condition in which t h e y

identified' him and the extent o f the b u r n s .

around his clothing.

As to State's Exhibit 4 , t h i s s h o w s the

fact that Joe's body was s t i l l p r o d u c i n g

blood. You know, one o f the i s s u e s is the

manner and cause of death, and while the

defense claims they want t o s t i p u l a t e , again,

the problem is, we have to talk a b o u t the

mechanism of death. We have t o talk a b o u t

what t h a t me'ans about what w e a p o n . w a s used.

So since a mere stipulation to c a u s e i s

 s o m e w h a t meaningless and e m p t y in t h i s case,

we n e e d t o b e a b l e t o t a l k a b o u t t h e f u l l
I
circumstances of Joe's condition. This

photograph shows that his body was still

p r o d u c i n g blood w h i l e o n the scene. I t s h o w s

the burn and it does allow for the witnesses

who were able to identify Joe before turning

him o v e r t o testify a s t o w h a t t h e y s a w in

making that identification.

As t o photograph f i v e , t h i s i s a

photograph f r o m a s c e n e t h a t is not e x t r e m e l y

close-up. While d i s c o l o r a t i o n i s v i s i b l e on

J o e , I think i t ' s a r g u a b l e t h a t i t ' s e x p l i c i t .

What it does show is that he was bound and

p l a c e d o u t s i d e of t h e h o u s e b y the firemen.

T h e y w i l l be here t o e l a b o r a t e o n e x a c t l y t o

w h a t e x t e n t they t u r n e d Joe. In fact, defense

counsel's argument sort of turns on itself

b e c a u s e they h a d t o m o v e J o e , l o o k i n g a t h i s

b o d y o n the s c e n e was i m p o r t a n t i n k n o w i n g h o w

he was positioned inside the house. If you

d o n ' t look at where b u r n s were, y o u c a n ' t t e l l

w h i c h s i d e h e was l y i n g o n a n d a l l o f t h o s e

t h i n g s , so by e x a m i n i n g w h e r e t h e b u r n s a r e ,

they w e r e a b l e t o r e a c h c o n c l u s i o n s a b o u t how

h e was positioned w h e n h e was b e a t e n a n d

burned. I believe that that photograph is

admissible and relevant for that purpose.

As t o p h o t o g r a p h s i x , a g a i n , t h i s i s

clearly not an explicit photograph. It

p e r m i t s a d e g r e e o f d e t a i l t o i d e n t i f y the

C h r i s t m a s s y n a t u r e of the t a p e t h a t was u s e d
 ,....

1 to bind Joe's ankles and i s in n o way

2 prejudicial.

3 Photograph seven i s a clear

4 identificat,ion on-the-scene photograph. It's

5 when they have turned Joe to the side to allow

6 everyone to view his face and confirm that

7 that is in fact who they were dealing with,

8 the extent, nature and positioning of his

9 injuries on the scene prior t o a n y , as the

10 defense alleges, alternation by the coroner.

11 As to State Exhibit 8 , this i s a

12 close-up photograph depicting the extent of

13 the injuries to Joe's wrists and the fact that

14 t h e y were v e r y t i g h t l y b o u n d . I believe t h a t
15 clearly since kidnapping is an e l e m e n t and a
16 predicate felony for first degree murder that

17 the fact that the victim was bound with his

18 hands behind his back by telephone cord i s

19 immensely relevant and appropriate for the

20 , determination as well as its consequences for

21 arson and the other elements of the offense.

22 THE COURT: I'm sorry. One question.

23 This is the hand, correct?

24 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Yes, sir. Those are

25 his hands. It is a close-up photograph o f his

26 hands bound behind his back with the telephone

27 cord.

28 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.

29 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: State's Exhibit 9,

30 this is where we are getting into what the

31 defense alleges about the alterations to the

32 body. N O W , clearly, the coroner did have to

18
5734
 1 a l t e r the body. T h i s i s a p h o t o g r a p h in which

2 the t o p 'of Mr. P r o c k ' s h e a d w a s r e m o v e d t o see

3 h o w far i n t o the c r a n i a l c a v i t y t h e i n j u r i e s

4 e x t e n d e d . And t o the l e f t o f t h e p h o t o g r a p h ,
I
5 you can see i n w a r d b e v e l i n g in t h e s k u l l .
6 B a s i c a l l y , they c r u s h e d in o n e of t h e t h i c k e s t

7 p a r t s of h i s s k u l l ; t h a t s h o w s t h a t t h i s was

8 not some accidental blow.

9 You k n o w , the n o t i o n t h a t w e c a n ' t s h o w

10 any photographs where the coroner altered a

11 v i c t i m ' s body would mean t h a t we w o u l d n e v e r

12 be able to opine about internal injuries. I

13 m e a n , you h a v e t o b e a b l e t o g o i n t o t h e b o d y

14 t o s e e w h e r e t h e t r a u m a w e n t . And, y o u k n o w ,
15 coroner Dr. Peretti had to cut into M r . Prock
16 t o s e e where h i s i n j u r i e s w e r e a n d h o w d e e p

17 a n d s e v e r e they were in d e t e r m i n i n g t h e c a u s e

18 o f death. T h a t ' s the p u r p o s e o f t h e p h o t o g r a p h

19 marked No. 9.

20 THE COURT: Is t h i s the t o p o r b a c k of

21 his head?

22 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Y e a h , t h i s i s the top

23 l o o k i n g d o w n a t the t o p . They have removed,

24 there's a side photograph at the end, that

25 they r e m o v e d the top o f h i s s c u l l a n d h i s

26 b r a i n t o s h o w the d a m a g e t o t h e i n s i d e of h i s

27 skull.

28 THE COURT: All right.

29 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: You can seen it to

30 t h e left. I t ' s the l i g h t e r p o r t i o n .

31 THE COURT: A l l right. Thank you.

32 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: P h o t o g r a p h No. 10 i s

 where the scalp has been peeled back. Again,
L

I 2 this i s where the coroner has done exploratory

I 3 procedures to see the depth and extent o f the

4 injuries, and it shows two very essential

5 things. One is it does show the d e p t h . a n d

6 s e v e r i t y of one o f t h e i n j u r i e s t o Mr. Prock's

7 head. It also shows on the part of the scalp

8 that many of the other wounds that d i d not

9 actually penetrate the skull did completely

10 penetrate the scalp. I believe - - I'm not a

11 doctor - - but I believe t h o s e a r e t h e

12 subgaleal hemorrhages that he talks about in

13 his coroner's report. Again, I don't know what

14 a subgaleal hemorrhage i s until Dr. Peretti

15 e x p l a i n s i t , showing me t h i s p i c t u r e , a n d I'm
16 a lawyer who has prosecuted dozens of homicide
17 cases. To ask the jury to just g e t i t from

18 'I subgaleal hemorrhage, 'I I think i s prejudicial

19 ' to the ability of the State t o present i t s

20 case and meet its burden of proof.

21 Photograph 1 1 i s a similar photograph

22 again showing the injuries through the scalp

23 and a different point of impact on Joe's

24 skull, showing again penetration o f the skull.

25 State's Exhibit 1 2 i s a photograph

26 prior t o the removal of the scalp, and this is

27 an essential photograph as well because what

28 i s o f great importance i s the shape, depth and

29 nature of the wounds to Mr. Prock's scalp. One

30 of the elements that the State will intend to

31 prove i s identity. And again, I doubt the

32 defense is willing to stipulate t o identity

 I
'\ -' '
0
since, you know, that would pretty much be a
15
guilty plea. A gun was recovered where

3 Mr. Dorsey lived, and we have witnesses that

4 are going to place that gun in h i s hand. The

bottom of that g u n s h a p e is e n t i r e l y
consistent with some of the i n j u r i e s . i n f l i c t e d

to Mr. Prock's scalp. The State should be

entitled t o show the shape of those injuries

I
and their depth and then show that Mr. Dorsey

10 had a gun perfectly consistent with inflicting

11 exactly those types of injuries. That goes

12 directly t o identity, and it again goes to

13 intent to kill and being armed with a

14 dangerous weapon which i s an element for the

15 aggravated kidnapping a l l e g e d b y t h e S t a t e .

16 The next photograph No. 1 3 shows again

17 in even greater detail, b u t from a different

18 angle, the injures to Mr. Prock's scalp,

19 showing the shape, nature and depth of those

20 injuries.

21 State's Exhibit 1 4 i s additional

22 injuries t o Mr. Prock but completely different

23 ones from the previous two photographs. You

24 know, i t ' s not the State's fault that nine

25 blows of nearly killing force were inflicted

26 to Mr. Prock's head, but the jury, I think, is

27 entitled to know just how badly he was beaten

28 so there's no issues as t o the intent of the

29 offenders.

30 Again, Dr. Peretti should be allowed to

31 talk about the types of instruments that could

32 cause these types of wounds and be allowed to

21
5737
I .
 1 Dr. P e r e t t i t o o p i n e a b o u t the d u r a t i o n of

w h i c h - - o f the b u r n s t o M r . P r o c k ; i n other

w o r d s , h o w l o n g was he b u r n i n g b e f o r e t h e f i r e

was put out. It allows him to make certain

5 observations a b o u t t h e t i s s u e u n d e r n e a t h t h e
6 b u r n a s t o whether o r n o t Mr. P r o c k w a s a l i v e

7 a t the time h e was s e t on f i r e w h i c h h e was.

8 It a l l o w s him to reach s e v e r a l c o n c l u s i o n s

9 about Mr. Prock's condition, and it does also

10 identify Mr. Prock as the person upon whom all

the other autopsy photos were being performed.

12 So I mean, , w e h a v e g o t s i x t e e n

13 p h o t o g r a p h s here, t w o o f them a r e c l e a r l y n o t

14 even within the b o u n d s o f ' g r u e s o m e o r

15 e x p l i c i t , and the o t h e r s e a c h s h o w s o m e

16 i n d e p e n d e n t f a c t or c o r r o b o r a t e s s o m e

17 i n d e p e n d e n t f a c t b e y o n d mere c a u s e o f d e a t h .

18 A n d what a l l the c a s e s t h a t M r . G a r r e t

19 c i t e s t a l k a b o u t i s in f a c t t h e b a l a n c i n g

20 t e s t . And it w o u l d b e p r e j u d i c i a l t o t h e S t a t e

2 1 if we w e r e forced t o h a v e a c o l d s t i p u l a t i o n

22 as t o c a u s e of d e a t h b u t n o t t a l k a b o u t h o w

23 t h o s e c a u s e s were c o n s i s t e n t w i t h t h e w e a p o n

24 M r . Dorsey h a d , h o w t h o s e c a u s e s w e r e

25 c o n s i s t e n t with a n i n t e n t t o k i l l , h o w t h o s e

26 c a u s e s were c o n s i s t e n t w i t h k i d n a p p i n g a

27 p e r s o n , h o w t h o s e c a u s e s w e r e c o n s i s t e n t with

28 the aggravated arson of Ms. Bobbie Prock's

29 home.

30 I t a l s o d o e s h a v e s o m e r e l e v a n c e as t o

31 c o r r o b o r a t e the n a t u r e a n d e x t e n t o f

32 Ms. B o b b i e P r o c k ' s s i t u a t i o n . She's going'to

 c o m e in h e r e a n d t e s t i f y a f t e r h a v i n g b e e n

through this, and her state of mind at the

time is something that is fair game for both

s i d e s t o talk about. I think that the jurors

5 s h o u l d be e n t i t l e d to k n o w w h a t s h e w a s

6 l o o k i n g a t when h e r s t a t e o f m i n d w a s f o r m e d .

7 You k n o w , h e r a b i l i t y t o r e c a l l f a c t s a n d h e r

8 a b i l i t y t o a s s e s s d e t a i l s may b e s l i g h t l y

9 impaired by the fact that she s a w h e r son in

10 t h i s condition. We're n o t o f f e r i n g i t t o

11 p r e j u d i c e the jury, b u t I t h i n k w e ' r e e n t i t l e d

12 t o d o a n y t h i n g we c a n within t h e b o u n d s of

13 e v i d e n c e t o s h o w why a w i t n e s s m i g h t n o t h a v e

14 had every cool reflection in their observation

15 of the crime t h a t w a s b e i n g p e r p e t r a t e d on

16 them.

17 So I b e l i e v e t h a t the p u r p o s e s a n d the

18 p r o b a t i v e value o f t h e s e p h o t o g r a p h s i s way

19 b e y o n d merely c a u s e of d e a t h . I b e l i e v e that

20 if the defense were to offer to stipulate to

21 any o f the o t h e r f a c t s t h a t w e g e t i n t o

22 d a n g e r o u s a r e a s where y o u ' r e n o w s t r i p p i n g the

23 S t a t e o f its c a s e . You k n o w , t h e d e f e n s e i s

24 n o t allowed - - a n d i t ' s c l e a r f r o m c a s e s t h a t

25 both the defense and the State cite - - is not

26 a l l o w e d to s i m p l y s t i p u l a t e a w a y t h e S t a t e ' s

27 c a s e a n d l e a v e u s t o c o m e i n w i t h o n e p i e c e of

28 e v i d e n c e a n d say, well, y e a h , a l l t h a t s t u f f ,

29 we a l l agree, but, y o u k n o w , i t w a s h i m . So

30 s i n c e they a r e n o t s t i p u l a t i n g t o i d e n t i t y ,

31 s i n c e the; can't logically stipulate to

32 i n t e n t , we s h o u l d t b e a l l o w e d t o p r e s e n t a l l
 _ _ _ _ ~

1 evidence of the predicate felonies a n d t h e

2

9
THE COURT:

MR. G A R R E T :
You may.

Thank you.
I
10 Mr. O'Callaghan has addressed w h a t he believes
I

11 Dr. Peretti can and can't do, and he is a I

12 designate. Dr. P e r e t t i is an e x p e r t in

13 d e s c r i b i n g w o u n d s to a j u r y . He h a s n o t

14 indicated anytime to us that h e ' n e e d e d

15 photographs to do that, and he appears to be

16 q u i t e able t o c a r r y o n t h a t p a r t of t h e p r o o f .

17 I a l s o t h i n k t h a t w e a r e c o n f u s i n g -t h e

18 guilt phase with the penalty phase. The guilt

19 phase does not involve mitigating and

20 aggravating factors. The State either proves

2 1 its case beyond a reasonable doubt or it

22 doesn't. Extent, depth, et cetera, those may

23 be relevant to the penalty phase, but I mean,

24 we are not going to contest that the victim i s

25 deceased.

26 Now, Mr. O'Callaghan has tried t o

27 dismiss the possibility of a stipulation. He

28 said a couple of things. He says that there

29 are things that we won't stipulate to. Well,

30 w e ' r e p r o b a b l y t h e b e s t s o u r c e of w h a t w e w i l l

31 stipulate to. He h a s s a i d a s t i p u l a t i o n would

32 strip away the State's case and only permit

25
 1 them with o n e item o f proof. I suspect they

1 2 wouldn't sign such a stipulation, so I d o n ' t

3 think that's really a danger.

~4
, In terms of how the fire occurred, the
I 5 police know how the fire occurred. It's in

6 their police reports. There is n o lack of

I
7 evidence there. We are looking for a
I
' 8 substantial necessity because of a failure of

9 evidence, and t h a t ' s not here.

10 The State has said we can't stipulate

11 to specific intent. Specific intent is not a

12 fact to stipulate. Specific intent i s a

13 conclusion that the jury reaches or not based

14 on the evidence. And whether or not there are

15 internal i n j u r i e s , again, perhaps f o r t h e

16 penalty phase a s to whether the victim

17 suffered or not', how badly the victim was

18 beaten, again, we're not contesting he's still

19 alive. This would merely be something more for

20 the penalty phase.

21 Deep and profound fractures, I think is

22 probably more relevant to the penalty phase.

23 The depth and nature of the injuries, we think

24 Dr. Peretti is well able, well experienced, I

25 see n o evidence that he is unable t o express

26 himself in a way that jurors can understand so

27 that his testimony would b e meaningless.

28 The bottom line here i s , this evidence

29 i s not essential. It does not have a

30 substantial necessity to be entered. It is, in

3 1 fact, incredibly prejudicial. Incredibly

32 gruesome photographs. And all o f the reasons

 I lsll

We t h i n k e v e r y t h i n g t h a t t h e S t a t e w a n t s t o fI3-1
E9d
Ob'
s h o w t h a t Mr. O ' C a l l a g h a n j u s t s a i d they want
8
llhl
to show can be shown, and that obviates the p"'
8
s u b s t a n t i a l n e c e s s i t y , and t h a t means all we ql
49
a r e l e f t with i s p h o t o g r a p h s t h a t I t h i n k we

w o u l d a s k for their e x c l u s i o n .

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: May I r e s p o n d t o j u s t

a few o f t h o s e t h i n g s .

THE COURT: You may.

MR. O ' C A L L A G H A N : F i r s t of a l l , I d o n ' t

k n o w i f Mr. G a r r e t h a s t a l k e d t o Dr. P e r e t t i ,
but I have and he says, just look at the

p i c t u r e s , it m a k e s i t a l o t c l e a r e r . So the

notion that he doesn't need the pictures to

e x p l a i n h i m s e l f when h e ' s t a l k i n g t o an

experienced homicide prosecutor and still

s a y s , l e t ' s l o o k at the p i c t u r e s is, t o me,

s i m p l y inaccurate.

Mr. Garret implied that all of the

things we're talking about wanting to prove

are t h i n g s for the p e n a l t y p h a s e , b u t t h e y are

not. A g g r a v a t e d a r s o n i s a p r e d i c a t e f e l o n y

f o r t h e crime not t h e p e n a l t y b u t t h e c r i m e of

f i r s t d e g r e e murder. K i d n a p p i n g i s a p r e d i c a t e

felony for the crime, not the penalty, of

f i r s t d e g r e e murder. A n d t h e i n t e n t t o k i l l

m o r e t h a n o n e p e r s o n i s an a g g r a v a t i n g

c i r c u m s t a n c e for the g u i l t p h a s e a s w e l l as

t h e penalty phase o f f i r s t d e g r e e m u r d e r . So
 all of these things are wrapped inextricably

t o the S t a t e ' s b u r d e n o f p r o o f .

Basically, y o u k n o w , t h e f a c t t h a t the

p o l i c e reached t h e d e t e r m i n a t i o n in t h e i r

reports doesn't change the fact that it was

b a s e d o n observation a n d e v i d e n c e a n d t h a t

t h e y s h o u l d b e allowed t o e x p l a i n t h e validity

of that observation and evidence. A n d the

n o t i o n t h a t the d e p t h o f w o u n d s i s n o t

10 r e l e v a n t t o proving s p e c i f i c i n t e n t , t h a t

11 that's some conclusion, I mean, Mr. Garret

12 k i n d of made my a r g u m e n t f o r m e , s p e c i f i c

13 i n t e n t i s a c o n c l u s i o n y o u r e a c h o n l o o k i n g at

14 the facts. Well, if they can't look a t the

15 f a c t s , you k n o w , h o w they c a n t h e y r e a c h that

16 c o n c l u s i o n ? T h e r e were d e e p i n j u r i e s t o h i s

17 h e a d d o e s n ' t d o it. There were deep injuries,

18 repeated injuries, multiple injuries and

19 h e r e ' s what they were, a n d t h e y c a m e f r o m an

20 i t e m j u s t like t h i s w e a p o n , t h a t g o e s t o

21 identity and specific intent.

22 And I d i d a l s o n o t a d d r e s s , b u t I

23 w o u l d , you k n o w , r e m i n d t h e C o u r t , y o u k n o w ,

24 t h e r e were troubling a l l e g a t i o n s i n d e f e n s e ' s

25 m o t i o n a b o u t a p u r p o r t e d l y t h r e a t e n i n g e- mail.

26 I p r o v i d e d the C o u r t with a c o p y o f t h a t

27 e- mail. You k n o w , a s I s a i d i n m y r e s p o n s e ,

28 you k n o w , I'm a t a loss t o s e e w h a t p a r t o f

29 t a k e c a r e , t h a n k s ' f o r your c o u r t e s y , a n d we're

30 r e s e r v i n g our r i g h t s to l i t i g a t e a q u e s t i o n i s

31 in a n y way threatening. A n d I d i d f e e l t h a t

32 t h a t w a s a fairly s t r o n g a l l e g a t i o n t o m a k e

28
5744:
 --..

1 based on my e-mail. That's all I have.

2 MR. GARRET: Your Honor, I just want to

3 remind the Court in our motion aside from

4 asking for the exclusion of these materials,

5 if the Court admits them, and we disagree
strongly that they should be admitted, I want

to remind the Court that we have also asked

for low contrast black and whites instead

9 which if the Court disagrees w i t h u s on the

I
10 exclusion we feel would adequately serve all

11 the needs here.

12 THE COURT: All right. Thank you both

13 for your arguments. In connection with the

14 motion to suppress gruesome guilt phase
I
15 photographs in evidence, I do not find, first

16

17
o f all, that all of the photographs are

explicit; however, the photographs that are in

I
18 question, if relevant or admissible, if the

19 probative value, outweighs i t s prejudicial

20 impact. The State has gone through the
I

2 1 photos, at least sixteen - - and they are color

22 photos - - and stated its reasons and purpose

23 for wanting t o admit such photographs into

24 evidence in this particular case. Based upon

25 the reasons stated by the State, the Court

26 finds that the photographs have their

27 relevancy. In addition, the Court finds that

28 the probative value would outweigh any

29 prejudicial effect in this case. I believe

30 sufficient reasons have been stated by the

31 State, and therefore the Court will deny the

32 motion to suppress gruesome guilt phase

 1 photographs i n evidence.

2 I would note the d e f e n s e ' s objection to

3 the Court's ruling for the r e c o r d ; however, I

4 d o believe that the State has a r i g h t to

p r e s e n t its c a s e . They c a r r y t h e b u r d e n o f
proof. I d o not believe t h a t black and w h i t e

photos would have the effect t h a t t h e defense

8 argues in this matter, and I b e l i e v e t h a t the

9 State h a s a right to present i t s case.

10 B e c a u s e i t carries the burden of proof, it has

11 a right to present the color p h o t o s . I d o not

12 find any relevant reasons s t a t e d why the color

13 p h o t o s should not be allowed a n d s h o u l d be

14 r e p l a c e d w i t h b l a c k and w h i t e p h o t o s , so t h a t
15 request i s also denied.

16 And your objection, Mr. G a r r e t , to the

17 Court's ruling i s noted for the r e c o r d .

18 MR. GARRET: Thank you, Your H o n o r .

19 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Your H o n o r , I would

20 ask, with the C o u r t ' s permission, t h a t the

2 1 C o u r t place i t s copy o f the p h o t o g r a p h s in

22 record.

23 (Whereupon a discussion o f f the r e c o r d was

24 held. )

25 (Whereupon the foregoing e x h i b i t s were filed

26 i n t o the record.)

27 T H E COURT: For the record, during this

28 argument on the motion to s u p p r e s s , the jury

29 was not present. I t was d o n e o u t s i d e the

30 presence o f the j u r y .
L

31 So the first person o n the prospective

32 list will be Mr. Posey from y e s t e r d a y ' s panel,

30
5746
 t
_-._ --.

e 1
-
.'
_.- I,
:'

a
'"P
I
dl*u

;:e
and t h e r e are a t l e a s t f i f t e e n o t h e r s .

(Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f the r e c o r d was

held. )

MR. THOMPSON: We w i l l f o r m a l l y c a l l

t h e case of S t a t e of Louisiana vs.

Felton Dorsey, D o c k e t No. 251,406. The

defendant i s present with t h e counsel,

Mr. Alan Golden and M r . Glen Garret.

I
9 Dhu Thompson f o r t h e d i s t r i c t a t t o r n e y ' s

10 office. W e are ready t o proceed with voir

11

12

13 are o u t s i d e t h e p r e s e n c e of t h e j u r y w a i t i n g

14 on the panel.

15 (Whereupon t h e v e n i r e p a n e l w a s seated i n t h e

16 courtroom.)

17 THE COURT: Good m o r n i n g , everyone. I

ia do apologize f o r t h e delay. W e had t o t a k e up

19 a few m a t t e r s o u t s i d e your p r e s e n c e b e f o r e w e

20 started. W e a r e now r e a d y t o c o n t i n u e w i t h

21 jury selection.

22 Let me, f i r s t of all, say t h a t every

23 person charged with a felony i n the State of

I
24 Louisiana i s e n t i t l e d t o a t r i a l by j u r y

25 accordi'ng t o t h e laws o f the State of

26 Louisiana and those of the United States

27 Constitution. I realize t h a t it is an

28 inconvenience f o r some o f you t o s e r v e on t h e

29 jury; however, it i s necessary f o r you t o

30 serve i n o r d e r f o r o u r system of justice t o

31 function properly.

32 I would a l s o like t o take this t i m e t o

31
5747
I
1 read t o you the qualifications that are

2 required of you i n o r d e r t o serve on t h e j u r y .

I
3 One, y o u m u s t be a c i t i z e n o f United States

4 and of the State of Louisiana and have resided

5 i n Caddo P a r i s h f o r a t l e a s t one y e a r p r i o r t o

6 today. T w o , yo'u m u s t b e a t l e a s t e i g h t e e n
I I
I years of age. Three, you m u s t able t o read,

8 w r i t e and speak t h e English language. Four,

9 you m u s t be n o t i n t e r d i c t e d o r i n c a p a b l e of

10 s e r v i n g b e c a u s e of's m e n t a l o r p h y s i c a l

11 infirmity. Five, you m u s t not be under

12 i n d i c t m e n t fo,r a f e l o n y n o r c o n v i c t e d o f a

13 f e l o n y f o r which you h a v e n o t b e e n p a r d o n e d .

14 If any of you f e e l t h a t y o u d o n o t meet

15 t h e necessary qualifications, w o u l d y o u p l e a s e
16 form a 1in.e on t h e w a l l over h e r e b e h i n d t h e

17 rail, a n d I w i l l be h a p p y t o t a l k t o a b o u t

18 that.

19 (No response. )

20 THE COURT: Also, some o f y o u may h a v e

21 r e a s o n s t h a t you f e e l t h a t you c a n n o t serve.

22 I want t o s a y t o you t h a t I am very limited i n

23 the reasons that I c a n e x c u s e you from j u r y

24 duty. In addition, as I stated earlier, in

25 order f o r our system t o survive, w e must have

26 w i l l i n g j u r o r s t h a t are w i l l i n g t o serve on

27 the jury. L e t m e see i f there is anyone w i t h

28 any planned surgeries o r things of that

29 nature, i f you would, show m e y o u r h a n d s .

30 There is one. Can you come o v e r h e r e

31 and l e t m e t a l k t o you.

32 Is there anyone w i t h planned v a c a t i o n ?

 (No response. )

THE COURT: Is t h e r e a n y o n e w h o a l s o

f e e l t h a t they c a n n o t s e r v e on t h e j u r y f o r

any reason?

Two. A l l right.

(Whereupon a discussion off the record was

held. )

8 T H E C O U R T : C a n you a l l a p p r o a c h .

9 (Whereupon a side-bar discussion o f f the

10 record was held.)
11 T H E COURT: Ms. H o l m e s , y o u a r e f r e e to

12 leave.

13 Ms. B e n n e t t , you are f r e e t o leave.

14 Ms. Heable, you are f r e e t o l e a v e .

15 And, M r . P o s e y , y o u a r e f r e e t o leave.

16 ( W h e r e u p o n the a f o r e s a i d v e n i r e m e m b e r s were

17 e x c u s e d from the panel.)

18 THE COURT: Again, w e l c o m e t o the

19 F i r s t J u d i c i a l District Court. This is a

20 criminal section of court. This trial is

21 s c h e d u l e d t o last a p p r o x i m a t e l y t w o w e e k s .

22 This is a sequestered trial. You will not be

23 s e q u e s t e r e d today or t o m o r r o w ; h o w e v e r , a t

24 s o m e p o i n t , p o s s i b l y S a t u r d a y , we w i l l b e g i n

25 s e l e c t i n g j u r o r s and we w i l l b e g i n

26 s e q u e s t e r i n g jurors. And t h a t i s c o m m o n l y

27 r e f e r r e d t o a s a l o c k - u p jury, m e a n i n g , t h a t

28 if s e l e c t e d , you w i l l s t a y a t h o t e l

29 accommodations, and you will be taken care of

30 by the s h e r i f f ' s d e p a r t m e n t . They will

31 p r o v i d e y o u r meals a n d t h i n g s o f t h a t n a t u r e .

32 They will make all necessary arrangements for

 you. A n d t h e t r i a l may l a s t a w e e k , a week
-
and a h a l f a t t h a t p o i n t . So t h i s i s what w e

are looking at, at this point.

We a r e g o i n g t o c a l l a l l o f you t o the

jury box at t h i s p o i n t .

(Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e r e c o r d was

held. )

THE COURT: Ma'am clerk, w o u l d you

please c a l l t h e prospective j u r o r s .

10

11 WHEREUPON. . .
12 the f o l l o w i n g v e n i r e members w e r e seated:

13 J u r o r One: Mark N a t a l e

14 Juror Two: Cheryl D. Thornton

15 Juror Three: Joann S. Stewart

16 Juror Four: Irma L . Edwards

17 Juror Five: Ronald T. Olague

18 Juror Six: Danny W a l k e r

19 Juror Seven: Monica M. Hicks

20 Juror Eight: Carlita R. Dixon

21 J u r o r Nine: C h a r l e s Walters, Jr.

22 J u r o r Ten: Sharon S n e l l i n g

23 Juror Eleven: Marvin J e f f e r s o n

24 J u r o r Twelve: Carrie Clay

25 Juror Thirteen: S e t h Thomas

26

27 THE COURT: Would e a c h o f you p l e a s e

28 stand, r a i s e y o u r r i g h t h a n d a n d be s w o r n .

29 ( W h e r e u p o n t h e v e n i r e p a n e l was d u l y s w o r n . )

30 THE COURT: This i s called voir dire

31 examination. This is the only phase of trial

7

32 where t h e a t t o r n e y s w i l l ask questions. You

 will be allowed to ask questions. Feel free
t o a s k any q u e s t i o n s t h a t you d e e m n e c e s s a r y

to ask.

4 I f you want a n e x p l a n a t i o n f o r

5 s o m e t h i n g , t h i s is the t i m e t o a s k . The

6 attorneys m.ay not be able to answer every

7 q u e s t i o n ; h o w e v e r , they w i l l e x p l a i n that to
I
'8 y o u , b u t feel f r e e t o a s k a n y t h i n g y o u w a n t to

9 ask. I f y o u n e e d an e x p l a n a t i o n , t h e y w i l l bel

10 h a p p y t o g i v e it to you. If you n e e d them t o

11 rephrase or restate something, they will be

12 .happy t o d o that for you. If you a r e a s k e d
13 s o m e t h i n g t h a t you f e e l i s t o o p r i v a t e o r t o o

14 p e r s o n a l t o b e d i s c u s s e d in t h e p r e s e n c e of

15 everyone, simply say so and we will talk to

16 you privately about that m a t t e r o u t s i d e the
17 p r e s e n c e o f the o t h e r j u r o r s .

18 I t i s i m p o r t a n t t h a t y o u s p e a k u p when

19

20
you are answering because the court reporter

is recording everything that is being said.

I
21 S o we n e e d you t o s p e a k u p , so t h a t s h e c a n

22 h e a r a s well a s the o t h e r a t t o r n e y s t h a t are

23 involved in the litigation.

24 Let me i n t r o d u c e t h e a t t o r n e y s i n v o l v e d

25 in this litigation. R e p r e s e n t i n g t h e S t a t e of

26 L o u i s i a n a i s the e l e c t e d D i s t r i c t A t t o r n e y ,

'27 Mr. C h a r l e s S c o t t , Mr. Dhu T h o m p s o n , a n d

28 Mr. Brady O'Callaghan. Representing the

29 a c c u s e d i s M r . Alan G o l d e n ,

30 Mr. David McClatchey. Ms. Michelle AndrePont

31 s t e p p e d o u t f o r j u s t a m o m e n t . Mr. G l e n G a r r e t

32 has stepped out also for just a moment. The

35
 I
1 a c c u s e d i s Felton D o r s e y .

2 Again, there a r e n o r i g h t a n d w r o n g

3 answers. T h e best a n s w e r i s a t r u t h f u l

4 answer.

5 With that, is the State to ready

6 proceed.

7 MR. T H O M P S O N : We are, Your Honor.

8 \ (Whereupon a PowerPoint presentation prepared

9 by t h e S t a t e was d i s p l a y e d t o t h e v e n i r e

10 panel. )

11

12 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

13 BY M R . T H O M P S O N :

1 4 Q. G o o d morning,' l a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n .

15 As p r e v i o u s l y i n t r o d u c e d , my n a m e i s

16 D h u T h o m p s o n , a n d I'm an a s s i s t a n t d i s t r i c t

17 a t t o r n e y h e r e in C a d d o P a r i s h . And I ' m

18 j o i n i n g M r . Brady O ' C a l l a g h a n a l o n g w i t h t h e

19 d i s t r i c t a t t o r n e y , Mr. C h a r l e s S c o t t , a s a

20 p r o s e c u t i o n team h e r e in t h e c a s e o f S t a t e o f

2 1 L o u i s i a n a vs. F e l t o n Dorsey.

22 As the j u d g e h a s i n d i c a t e d , t h i s i s a

23 first degree murder charge, and it carries a

24 capital punishment sentence option in this

25 case. So, l a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n , l e t me s t a r t

26 off b y s t a t i n g t h a t I k n o w t h i s m i g h t b e t h e

27 f i r s t t i m e s o m e of you h a v e e v e r b e e n in c o u r t

28 in t h i s t y p e of s i t u a t i o n , a n d I k n o w i t m i g h t

28 b e a l i t t l e i n t i m i d a t i n g at t h i s t i m e .

30 W h a t I'm going t o t r y t o do i s t o

31 r e l a x y o u in your s e a t s t o t e l l you t h a t , as

32 the j u d g e s t a t e d , t h e r e ' s n o r i g h t o r w r o n g
 L

1 1 answers here, just truthful, honest opinions.

I 2 I want t o s t a t e f o r t h o s e who h a v e n e v e r d o n e
I
I 3 t h i s process before, sometimes I ' v e had

4 e x p e r i e n c e s where I have j u r o r s in the line

5 g i v i n g m e t h e same a n s w e r , and t h e n a j u r o r

6 maybe on the second r o w or t h i r d r o w has a

7 d i f f e r e n t answer or a d i f f e r e n t opinion and

8 d o e s n ' t w a n t t o be t h a t i n d i v i d u a l t h a t s t a n d s

9 and says w e l l , I have a d i f f e r e n t o p i n i o n from

10 t h e r e s t o f t h e g r o u p or maybe I shouldn't
11 state t h i s opinion because t h a t ' s not the

12 r i g h t answer. Keep i n mind, ladies and

13 gentlemen, t h e r e i s no r i g h t o r wrong a n s w e r s .

14 And i n t h e s e i m p o r t a n t c a s e s , your

15 honest, t r u t h f u l internal opinion is going to

16 h e l p us best i n our jury selection i n this

17 case. So k e e p i n mind, this i s an open- ended

L

18 forum. If you h a v e a q u e s t i o n , i f you want t o

19 s t o p m e and a s k m e a question, you have t h e

20 right t o do t h a t . I want t o keep t h i s forum

21 open almost as i f we're having a f i r e s i d e

22 chat, so i t ' s not stuffy and i t ' s not formal

23 a n d you c a n be r e l a x e d a n d d i s c u s s y o u r

24 feelings i n reference t o the topics that we

25 are going t o cover today.

26 I want t o p u t t h e b l u r b up b e f o r e I

27 begin w i t h the three t o p i c s t h a t w e are going

28 t o c o v e r t o d a y as t o t h e importance of jurors

29 b e c a u s e I know w h e n t h e j u d g e made h i s

30 i n d i c a t i o n t h a t t h i s i s a f i r s t degree murder,

31 i t ' s going t o take two w e e k s , you a r e g o i n g t o

32 be sequestered if, you're selected f o r t h i s

37
 jury, I k n o w there i s a g e n e r a l g u t

inclination of, oh, my gosh, that's going to

b e a h a r d s h i p , and I a m g o i n g t o h a v e t o

r e s c h e d u l e work, a n d I w o n d e r i f I c a n m a y b e

s a y s o m e t h i n g t o get o f f the j u r y .

A n d I know from m y e x p e r i e n c e , I ' v e

h a d m y f r i e n d s say, what d o I n e e d t o s a y ,

w h a t d o I n e e d t o do, what d o I n e e d t o

e x a g g e r a t e t o g e t o f f the jury.

10 W e l l , l a d i e s and g e n t l e m e n , f r o m

11 putting these bullet points up, everyone here

12 t h a t h a s b e e n s e l e c t e d in t o d a y ' s p r o c e s s i s a

13 r e g i s t e r e d voter h e r e in Caddo. I s that

14 correct?
15 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

16 A. (By Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

17 A. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes.

18 A. (By Ms. S t e w a r t ) Yes.

19 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.

20 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

2 1 A. ( B y Ms. Hicks) Yes.

22 A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes.

23 A. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes.

24 A. ( B y M s . S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

25 A. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

26 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

27 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.

28 A n d with t h a t in p l a c e , M s . D i x o n ,

29 h a v e y o u e v e r s e e n a news s t o r y a b o u t a c a s e

30 t h a t a f t e r a verdict, you a g r e e o r d i s a g r e e d

31 with a n d you said t o y o u r s e l f , I c a n ' t b e l i e v e

32 they c o n v i c t e d t h a t g u y , o r , I c a n ' t b e l i e v e
I

1 that guy walked? Have y o u e v e r s e e n t h a t

2 situation.
I 3 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

4 Q. M s . Hicks, h a v e you e v e r s e e n an

5 e l e c t i o n , you k n o w , o v e r the l a s t t e n y e a r s ,

6 whether it be a local, state o r national

7 e l e c t i o n , w h e r e y o u s a i d , I c a n ' t b e l i e v e that

8 guy won, or, I can't believe that guy lost?

9 A. (By Ms. H i c k s ) Right.

10 Q. Now, M r . Thomas, i f y o u d o n ' t v o t e in

11 t h a t e l e c t i o n , you c a n ' t c o m p l a i n a b o u t t h e

12 results?

13 A. (By M r . T h o m a s ) No.

14 Q. Ms. Thornton, t o t h a t e x t e n t , i f the'

,15 j u r o r s didn't p a r t i c i p a t e i n t h i s p r o c e s s ,
16 could t h e r e e v e r be a complaint t h a t t h e
17 system is not working?

18 A. (By Ms. Thornton) No.

19 Q. Okay. M s . S t e w a r t , the s a m e l i n e of

20 q u e s t i o n i n g , in r e f e r e n c e t o the i n t e g r i t y of

21 the s y s t e m , d o you a g r e e or d i s a g r e e t h a t

22 w i t h o u t jury p a r t i c i p a t i o n t h a t t h e s y s t e m

23 would crumble?

24 A. (By Ms. Stewart) I agree.

25 Q. To that e x t e n t , l a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n ,

26 with t h i s , I want t o s t r e s s the i m p o r t a n c e

27 t h a t i f y o u ' r e a b l e and willing t o s e r v e o n

t h i s j u r y , the s y s t e m , t h e i n t e g r i t y o f t h e

s y s t e m n e e d s the p a r t i c i p a t i o n of g o o d j u r o r s

in o u r p a r i s h in o r d e r t o k e e p t h e s y s t e m

r u n n i n g , e s p e c i a l l y with t h e s e t y p e of

important cases.

39
 Ladies and gentlemen, we have two

I 2 phases o f the voir dire here. As indicated by

I 3 the Court and as charged by the district

4 attorney's office, this i s a capital case.

5 So at this point in the voir dire, we are

6 t a l k i n g a b o u t t h r e e s p e c i f i c a r e a s r i g h t now.
The first topic will be sequestration. The
8 next topic I am going to discuss i s pretrial

9 publicity, and then the third topic, this i s

going to be the most important topic that I'm

11 going to c o v e r in r e f e r e n c e t o who c a n q u a l i f y
12 t o s i t on this j u r y .
13 N O W , I know some o f you may have

14 never thought about this issue or, if you

15 thought about i t , y o u thought about it in

16 passing as far as your internal views and

17 opinions about the death penalty. But a s I

18 throw this out to you in the beginning, I want

19 you t o start internally thinking about what is

20 your opinion about the death penalty because,

21' keep in mind, we are going to be asking you

22 later on in this presentation whether it's a

23 punishment that you can seriously consider o r

24 whether it would be a punishment that you

25 could impose if the evidence merits it. Now,

26 keep in mind, this is where we are going t o

27 seek honest answers.

28 And as a prosecutor who's done plenty

29 of these cases, I've heard every answer in the

30 book. I ' v e heard people say that they c a n ' t

31 d o it under any circumstances. I ' v e heard

32 people say that I ' l l d o it no matter what the

40
 evidence is. I've heard people say I ' m

neutral to either side. We have h e a r d the

whole spectrum o f answers so, k e e p in m i n d ,

4 ladies and gentlemen, when we get to t h a t

5 topic t h e r e ' s n o right or wrong answer. So I

6 hope t h a t s t a r t s your thinking a s far a s your

7 opinion o n that important topic.

8 L e t me talk to you about the

9 sequestration. When we talk about

10 s e q u e s t r a t i o n , that m e a n s n o c o n t a c t with

11 anyone. O n c e sequestration b e g i n s the s h e r i f f

12 will take custody o f you and that d o e s n ' t mean

13 you g o to the C a d d o Correctional C e n t e r . That

14 means you are going to g o to a nice hotel. As

15 the judge indicated, you are g o i n g to b e

16 provided very good meals, and the s h e r i f f ' s

17 office i s going to take care of you t h r o u g h

18 the duration o f the trial. You are g o i n g to

19 have limited T V and newspaper e x p o s u r e t o

20 maintain the integrity o f the p r o c e e d i n g s so

21 there i s no outside influences coming i n

22 influencing your decision when your decision

23 should b e based o n the facts and t h e e v i d e n c e .

24 Do you agree with that, Ms. E d w a r d s ?

25 A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes.

26 Q. Do you see why they d o the

27 sequestration process?

28 A. (By Ms. Edwards) Yes.

29 Q. As indicated b y the Court, w e are in

30 the continuous process of selecting t h i s jury.

31 We anticipate sequestration could b e g i n a r o u n d

32 Friday, maybe Saturday. That i s our t i m e

41
 _-

I 1 ( W h e r e u p o n a side-bar d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e

I 2 record was held.)

I 3 THE COURT: Ms. S t e w a r t , c o u l d y o u

~ 4 a p p r o a c h , please.

5 (Whereupon a discussion off the record was

6 held. )
7 \ THE COURT: F o r t h e r e c o r d , Ms. S t e w a r t

8 i s e x c u s e d f o r the r e a s o n s a l r e a d y s t a t e d .

9 ( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d

10 f r o m t h e courtroom.)

11 BY MR. THOMPSON:

12 Q. Ms. Edwards, I believe I left off

13 with y o u .

14 A. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) (Ju'ror n o d s h e a d . )

15 Q. Okay. Would the sequestration p o s e

16 any i s s u e f o r y o u ?
17 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

18 Q. C o u l d you t e l l me a b o u t t h a t .

19 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) U s u a l l y , w h e n I g e t

20 off work every e v e n i n g , I h a v e t o g o t o m y

21 d a u g h t e r ' s h o u s e t o take c a r e o f m y

22 g r a n d c h i l d r e n e v e r y day b e c a u s e s h e h a s t o b e

23 a t w o r k from 1 2 : O O t o 8 : O O e v e r y d a y . A n d so

24 I h a v e t o b e t h e r e when I g e t o f f work t o meet

25 t h e b u s when they g e t o f f b u s . They are

26 e l e m e n t a r y kids f r o m f o u r to eleven.

27 Q. These are your grandchildren?

28 A. (By Ms. Edwards) Uh-huh.

29 Q. Their mother - -

30 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) W o r k s e v e r y d a y .

31 Q. W h a t time d o e s t h e m o t h e r g e t o f f

32 work?

43
5759
 1 A. (By Ms. Edwards) At 8 : O O at night.

' F r o m 12:OO noon until 8 : O O at night.

Q. Are y o u the o n l y r e l a t i v e h e r e in

town t h a t c o u l d a s s u m e t h a t r e s p o n s i b i l i t y ? I

5 k n o w y o u r d a u g h t e r probably p r e f e r s y o u ,

6 but - -

7 A. ( B y M s . Edwards) Well, a s f a r a s
t
8 s h e ' s c o n c e r n e d , I a m . I mean, o t h e r

9 r e l a t i v e s , I h a v e w o u l d h e l p u s , too. As a

10 matter of f a c t , I have t w o sisters.

11 Q. Would they be a b l e t o a s s u m e t h o s e

12 r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s if you w e r e s e l e c t e d a s a

13 juror?

14 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) W e l l --
15 Q. I know y o u r daughter probably prefers

16 you.

17 A. (By Ms. Edwards) But m y o l d e s t s i s t e r

18 j u s t g o t o u t of the h o s p i t a l f r o m a b l o c k a g e .

19 Q. Okay.

20 A. ( B y M s . Edwards) M y o t h e r s i s t e r , I

21 d o n ' t k n o w b e c a u s e s h e ' s a t work e v e r y d a y . I

22 d o n ' t k n o w w h e r e s h e i s afterward.

23 Q. Okay. So you feel t h a t s i t u a t i o n may

24 i m p o s e an e x t r e m e h a r d s h i p o n y o u ?

25 A. ( B y Ms. Edwards) Yes, b e c a u s e t h e r e

26 i s n o o n e t o k e e p them.

27 Q. I f you were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r in

28 t h i s c a s e a n d you weren't a b l e t o m a k e any

29 accommodations, how would that affect you as a

30 juror?

31 A. (By Ms. Edwards) (No response.)

32 Q. I'll a c c e p t whatever a n s w e r y o u g i v e

44
 1 me.
2 A. (By Ms. E d w a r d s ) I t w o u l d a f f e c t m e

3 pretty bad.

4 Q. How would i t affect y o u ? J u s t g i v e m e

5

6
I your best explanation.

A. (By Ms. E d w a r d s ) In my best

I

7 explanation, I w o u l d n ' t be here.

8 Q. Do you f e e l you might be distracted
9 from these proceedings?

10

11
I A.

Q.
( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) No.

Would you f e e l like y o u c o u l d still

12 p a y a t t e n t i o n t o the f a c t s a n d e v i d e n c e a n d

13 the witnesses?

14 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

15 Q. If we w e r e t o a l l o w y o u to m a k e

16 a c c o m m o d a t i o n s to see if another relative or a

17 f a m i l y f r i e n d h e r e in town c o u l d t a k e c a r e o f

18 that responsibility, would that alleviate your

19 hardship?

20 A. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes.

2 1 Q. We can certainly make those

22 accommodations to allow you to do that.

23 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) O k a y .

2 4. Q. Mr. Olague, d i d I say your name

25 correctly?

26 A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) 0 - l a - G E E . An 1 1 0 , " a n d

27 "leg" and an "E."

28 Q. A l l right. Mr. Olague, do you have

29 any issues with the sequestration topic?

30 A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) No, s i r .

31 Q. You w o u l d b e a b l e t o s e r v e a s a

32 sequestered juror?
 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.

Q. Mr. Walker.

A. (By Mr. Walker) I ' v e g o t a s i t u a t i o n

this w e e k e n d , b u t c a n n o t be c a n c e l e d , a n d it's
an activity that has been planned for a year.

Q. Is t h a t s o m e t h i n g you m i n d d i s c u s s i n g

here?

A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Well, p r i v a t e l y .
~

Q. D o you want t o d i s c u s s i t i n p r i v a t e ?

10 A. (By Mr. Walker) Yes.

11 Q. Okay. I ' l l m a k e t h a t a c c o m m o d a t i o n .

12 Ms. Clay.

13 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) It w o u l d b e

14 inconvenient, but it would b e okay.

15 Q. J u r y s e r v i c e is a l w a y s i n c o n v e n i e n t

16 t o e v e r y b o d y , b u t what w e ' r e s e e k i n g i s

17 w h e t h e r a n y b o d y h a s a n y e x t r e m e h a r d s h i p s . So

18 you w o u l d b e a b l e t o serve a s a s e q u e s t e r e d

19 juror?
20 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) M y h u s b a n d i s a y o u t h

21 minister, but he could do without me for a

22 little while.

23 Q. I n o r m a l l y g e t a good r e s p o n s e f r o m

24 m a r r i e d c o u p l e s with c h i l d r e n .

25 A. (By Ms. Clay) I don't have any kids.

26 I ' v e o n e on t h e w a y , b u t I d o n ' t h a v e a n y k i d s

27 here.

28 Q. I ' v e h e a r d them s a y , s i g n m e u p , I

29 n e e d the v a c a t i o n .

30 A. (By Ms. Clay) I've got a vacation to

31 w o r k o n , so i t ' s okay.

32 Q. Mr. J e f f e r s o n .
 1 A. (By Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) I t w o u l d b e

2 b e c a u s e i t ' s t w o weeks.

3 Q. Okay.

4 A. (By M r . J e f f e r s o n ) B e c a u s e o f my

5 financial situation that would be the only

h a r d s h i p I w o u l d have.

Q. I'm sorry?

A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) T h e o n l y h a r d s h i p

9 I w o u l d h a v e is b e c a u s e of t h e t w o w e e k s I'm

10 off work.

11 Q. Where d o you work?

12 A. (By Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) R e p u b l i c

13 Contractors.
14 Q. What type o f work d o you d o t h e r e ?
15 A. (By Mr. Jefferson) Plumber.

16 Q. Are you a n h o u r l y e m p l o y e e ?

17 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

18 Q. Is it f a i r t o s a y t h a t i f y o u d o n ' t

19 work, you d o n ' t g e t p a i d ?

20 A. ( B y Mr. Jefferson) C o r r e c t .

21 Q. I ' m assuming y o u r b o s s w o n ' t m a k e a n y

22 a c c o m m o d a t i o n s to t h a t e f f e c t ?

23 A. (By Mr. Jefferson) I would have to

24 a s k him a b o u t that.

25 Q. You would h a v e t o a s k h i m . If he

26 w e r e to m a k e those a c c o m m o d a t i o n s t o y o u r

27 salary, would that alleviate your hardship?

28 A. (By Mr. Jefferson) Yeah.

29 Q. If h e w a s n ' t a b l e t o m a k e t h o s e

30 a c c o m m o d a t i o n s , that w o u l d p o s e a n e x t r e m e

31 economic hardship?

32 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) W e l l , n o t e x t r e m e

47
 Cd'

1 b e c a u s e G o d h a n d l e s a l l my affairs.

Q. So let me ask you this,

n o t w i t h s t a n d i n g what you h a v e j u s t s t a t e d ,

4 w o u l d you b e a b l e t o s e r v e a s a s e q u e s t e r e d

5 j u r o r i f m a y b e we were t o a l l o w y o u t o c h e c k

6 on those hardships i n reference t o your boss

7 giving your salary during your jury service?

8 A. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

9 Q. Any o t h e r h a r d s h i p s we n e e d t o k n o w

10 about?
11 A. (By M r . J e f f e r s o n ) No.
12 Q. M s . Snelling.

13 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes. I work for

14 the school system, and I do evaluations. I

15 h a v e f o u r t e e n e v a l u a t i o n s in t h e p r o c e s s r i g h t

16 now. It's the last weeks of school. They

17 h a v e t o b e c o m p l e t e d in t h e s e l a s t t w o weeks.

18 I also tutor high school students for finals,

19 a n d i t w o u l d be very d i f f i c u l t f o r t h e m t o

20 f i n d a n o t h e r tutor a t t h i s l a t e d a t e .

21 Q. Okay. Having a mother who is a school

22 t e a c h e r , I understand.

23 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) M y f a t h e r a l s o h a s

24 c a n c e r a n d l i v e s in Baton R o u g e . He just

25 s t a r t e d t r e a t m e n t was y e s t e r d a y . The last one

26 . was so s e v e r e t h a t they h a d h o s p i t a l i z e h i m

27 and if that happens again, I would have to be

28 w i t h him.

29 Q. I ' m very s o r r y t o h e a r a b o u t t h a t

30 situation. Ms. Snelling, I am g o i n g t o m a k e a

31 n o t e h e r e , we may r e a d d r e s s t h i s i s s u e in a

32 p r i v a t e c a p a c i t y later o n i n t h e v o i r d i r e .
 Mr. Walters.

A. ( B y Mr. Walters) J u s t t w o s i t u a t i o n s .

M y w i f e h a s a ruptured d i s k a n d s h e i s g o e s t o

t h e n e u r o l o g y on the 2 5 t h t o d e c i d e w h a t k i n d

5 o f s u r g e r y that may o c c u r , although the

6 s u r g e r y p r o b a b l y won't be s c h e d u l e r i g h t a w a y .

7 I f i t ' s t w o weeks, i t ' s n o t a p r o b l e m , b u t I

8 d o h a v e vacation that s t a r t s on t h e 7 t h . I

9 h a v e a l r e a d y p a i d a n d I won't g e t m y m o n e y

10 back.
11 Q. T h e 7 t h of J u n e ?

12 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Yeah.

13 Q. I h a t e t o make a p r o m i s e , b u t I

14 a n t i c i p a t e we'll b e d o n e b y t h e n .

15 A. (By Mr. Walters) As long as

1 6 a r r a n g e m e n t s could made t h a t m y w i f e c o u l d

17 s p e a k t o the s h e r i f f ' s d e p a r t m e n t a n d l e t me

18 k n o w what r e s u l t s a r e , t h e n I h a v e n o p r o b l e m .

19 Q. That would alleviate the hardship?

20 A. (By Mr. Walters) Yes.

21 Q. Ms. Dixon.

22 A. (By Ms. Dixon) No.

23 Q. No hardships?

24 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) No.

25 Q. O k a y . M s . Hicks.

26 A. (By Ms. Hicks) I was planning to go

27 o u t o f town in the morning a n d c o m e b a c k

28 Sunday evening.

29 , Q. Okay.

30 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) And a l s o my n i e c e i s

31 g r a d u a t i n g o n the 2 3 r d .

32 Q. Your n i e c e i s graduat,ing o n t h e 2 3 r d

. 49
 .1

which would be Saturday?

A. .(By M s . Hicks) Saturday a week.

Q. Okay. Let me ask you this as far as

your out-of-town trip for tomorrow, i s it

something that could be rescheduled if you

D
were selected? 6
CP I
A. (By Ms. H i c k s ) Well, it has been

planned for several months. I'd really rather

not miss it.

I

Q. If you don't mind me asking, is it a

personal vacation or is it business?

A. (By Ms. Hicks) Yes, personal.

Q. It's a personal vacation. I s it

something that non-refundable?

A. (By Ms. H i c k s ) No.

Q. It's n o t r e f u n d a b l e ?
A. Oh, yes. I t ' s just a camping trip

with my family.

Q. Let m e pose a question to you, and

I'll accept whatever answer you give me. Is

it something that can be rescheduled o r i s

it - -

A. (By M s . Hicks) (Juror shakes head.)

No.

Q. So let me ask you this: I f , y o u were

selected as a juror in this sequestered

manner, how would that affect you? . A n d I'll

accept whatever answer you give me.

A. (By Ms. Hicks) It's something I would

like to do. So I don't g e t . t o see my d a d

o'ften. He lives in town, but with my job and

he goes to bed early, so we just never g e t to

 visit, a n d h e ' s seventy- two. A n d h e ' s d o w n a t m
61
T o l e d o B e n d a l o n e r i g h t now. He's expecting

all the family to come down.

Q. Would it be something that w o u l d

c r e a t e a s e v e r e strain on y o u r a b i l i t y t o

s e r v e a s a j u r o r i f you were s e l e c t e d ?

A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) No. I would be upset.

Q. Would i t b e s o m e t h i n g t h a t y o u m i g h t

h o l d a g a i n s t either of the p a r t i e s ?

10 A. (By M s . Hicks) Maybe. (Laughter.)

11 No.

12 Q. T h i s i s why I d o t h i s p r o c e s s .

13 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) I w o u l d b e hurt.

14 Q. Okay. I g u e s s the c r u n c h q u e s t i o n i s ,
15 if s e l e c t e d , w o u l d you b e a b l e t o s e r v e a s a

16 juror?

17 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Yes, b u t I w o u l d n ' t

18 want t o m i s s my n i e c e ' s g r a d u a t i o n .

19 Q. On the 2 3 r d ?

20 A. (By Ms. Hicks) The 23rd.

21 Q. W e l l , J u d g e Mosely i s very g o o d a t

22 m a k i n g t h e s e c a s e s go very e x p e d i t i o u s l y . So

23 h o p e f u l l y , we w i l l b e d o n e by t h e n . Okay?

24 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( J u r o r n o d s head.)

25 Q. Mr. Thomas.

26 A. ( B y Mr. Thomas) I h a v e a b i c y c l e r a c e

27 t h i s w e e k e n d t h a t I've a l r e a d y p a i d f o r w h i c h

28 is not a big deal.

29 Q. Okay.

30 A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Then' m y s i s t e r

31 g r a d u a t e s h i g h s c h o o l on the 2 4 t h .

32 Q. O f t h i s month?

51

5767
 A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Um- hum.

Q. T o the e x t e n t of y o u r b i c y c l e r a c e ,

is that something that - -

A. (By Mr. T h o m a s ) I t ' s n o t h i n g t h a t ' s a

big deal. It's just that i t was sixty-three

dollars, and I have already paid that.

Q. I played a lot of tennis tournaments,

a n d t h e r e h a s b e e n a l o t of c a s e s w h e r e I ' v e

I had to eat my fee. So I understand that, but

I to the extent that y o u c o u l d d o that - -

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I t ' s n o t h i n g s e v e r e .

Q. - - you would b e a b l e t o s e r v e . As t o

y o u r g r a d u a t i o n o n the 2 3 r d - - is t h a t

correct?

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) The 2 3 r d o r 2 4 t h ,

Sunday.

Q. I a n t i c i p a t e the c a s e m a y b e o v e r by

then. I d o n ' t want t o m a k e any p r o m i s e s , b u t

t o t h a t e x t e n t , w o u l d you s t i l l b e a b l e t o

s e r v e a s a j u r o r in t h i s c a s e ?

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.

Q. I s t h e r e anybody e l s e t h a t h a s

a n y t h i n g they want t o a d d to t h e i r a n s w e r

b e f o r e I m o v e t o the n e x t t o p i c .

Y e s , ma'am, Ms. E d w a r d s .
I
A. (By M s . Edwards) I do. If I am

s e l e c t e d , w o u l d my job b e i n f o r m e d ?

Q. Yes, ma'am.

A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) O k a y .

Q. We w i l l allow you t o m a k e

a c c o m m o d a t i o n s t o inform your j o b a n d , i f

needed, there can be notifications to confirm

 .-..

I
.._. .

1 t h a t y o u a r e i n d e e d h e r e in a s e q u e s t e r e d

2 manner.

3 A. (By Ms. Edwards) I told my students

4 y e s t e r d a y a n d t h i s morning.

5 Q. You p u t them o n n o t i c e .
6 A. ( B y Ms. Edwards) Yes.

7 Q. Ms. Clay, did you have your hand up?

8 A. ( B y Ms. Clay) Would we s t a r t t o m o r r o w

9 if we g o t p i c k e d ?

10 Q- No, 'ma'am. W e ' r e s t i l l i n t h e

11 p r o c e s s of selection.

12 A. (By M s . C l a y ) O h , o k a y . I w a s j u s t

13 w o n d e r i n g b e c a u s e I h a v e an a p p o i n t m e n t a t

14 9 : 3 0 i n the morning.

15 Q. You s h o u l d b e a b l e t o make t h a t

16 appointment tomorrow.

17 A. (By M s . C l a y ) O k a y .

18 Q. Is t h e r e a n y b o d y e l s e t h a t h a s any'

19 q u e s t i o n s .or w a n t s t o a d d t o t h e i r a n s w e r ?
20 Y e s , ma'am, Ms. T h o r n t o n .

21 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I d o h a v e v a c a t i o n

22 p l a n n e d f o r the d a y a f t e r M e m o r i a l D a y , t h a t

23 week. I d o n ' t know what t h a t - -

24 Q. T h a t w o u l d b e the 2 6 t h , 2 7 t h .

25 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) D o y o u t h i n k i t

26 would be through by then?

27 Q. Once again, I hate to promise that

28 a n d t h e n we roll i n t o week t h r e e , b u t w e ' r e

29 g o i n g t o t r y our b e s t t o k e e p w i t h i n t h e t i m e

30 f r a m e s t h a t we h a v e g i v e n o u t t o t h e j u r o r s .

31 A. ( B y M s . Thornton) O k a y .

32 Q. T o t h a t e x t e n t , w o u l d t h a t h e l p with
 -.

I 1 your hardship?

2 A. (By Ms. Thornton) Yes.

~ 3 Q. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, my n e x t

4 topic concerns pretrial publicity, a n d t h i s i s

where, a s well, too, I want to s t r e s s t o

everybody here before you give your answer,

this case h a s received some pre - trial

publicity when the incident occurred a n d

leading up to the trial. I don't know if

10 anybody has seen anything on the news or has

11 heard anything through community talk o r

12 through any media outlets. If I c o u l d give a

13 reminder here at this point, i f you h a v e h e a r d

14 something in the media about this case, just

15 let m e know. I don't want you t o g o i n t o a n y
I
16 extreme details. I just want you to l e t m e

17 know i f y o u ' v e heard anything right o f f the

18 b a t . And then I'm going to explore i t .further.

*
19 When we talk about the p r e t r i a l

20 publicity in this c a s e , , o u r b a s i c a l l e g a t i o n s ,

21 the crime occurred April 1 , 2006, at the

22 location o f 8 8 4 5 Greenwood Springridge R o a d ,

23 Highway 169, near Greenwood. T h e victim in

24 this case, a gentleman by the name of

25 Mr. J o e Prock was killed. H i s mother, victim

26 Bobbie Prock, was also injured in t h i s

.27 offense. The Caddo Parish S h e r i f f ' s O f f i c e

28 investigated this case.

29 Now, I can't g e t into a n y m o r e

30 specifics other than that, that's the b a s i c

31 allegations that the law provides u s t o g i v e

32 to you i n this stage of jury s e l e c t i o n .

 K e e p in mind, M s . S n e l l i n g , w h e n e v e r

you s e e a b i g case on TV, are you f a m i l i a r

with t h e D r e w Petersen c a s e t h a t ' s g o i n g o n ?

A. (By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Urn-hum.

5 Q. With t h a t c a s e , t h a t ' s a p o l i c e

6 officer. He's h a d s e v e r a l wives m i s s i n g n o w .

7 And h e h a s n o w b e e n a r r e s t e d f o r m u r d e r ,

8 right? A l o t of p r e t r i a l p u b l i c i t y , wouldn't

9 you agree?

10 A. (By Ms. Snelling) ( J u r o r nods head.)

11 Q. In those instances, jurors that are

12 g o i n g t o b e s e l e c t e d u p there, d o y o u t h i n k

13 t h e y s h o u l d b a s e their v e r d i c t on t h e p r e t r i a l

14 publicity?

15 A. (By M s . Snelling) No.

16 Q. W h a t s h o u l d they b a s e the v e r d i c t o n ?

17 A. (By Ms. Snelling) The evidence.

18 Q. The facts and the evidence.

19 W o u l d you a g r e e with t h a t ,

20 Mr. Walters?

21 A. (By M r . Walters) Y e s .

22 Q. T h i s i s what I want t o t o u c h u p o n .

23 I'll s t a r t w i t h y o u , M r . N a t a l e . Have you

24 h e a r d any p r e t r i a l publicity e x p o s u r e t o t h i s

25
I case?

26

27
I A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) I r e c a l l t h e n e w s

a c c o u n t s w h e n i t first h a p p e n e d , a n d t h i s p a s t

28 S u n d a y n i g h t , I r e a d a n a r t i c l e o n it.

29 Q. F r o m w h a t your u n d e r s t a n d i n g o f t h e

30 p r e t r i a l publicity is, i s i t t h e s a m e b a s i c

31 a l l e g a t i o n s t h a t i s p u t u p h e r e on o u r

32 outline?

55

5 7 '7 1-
I 1 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

2 Q. * W i t h t h i s , h a v e you 'formed a n y

3 p r e c o n c e i v e d n o t i o n s o f the d e f e n d a n t ' s gu-ilt

~ 4 or innocence?

5 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) No.
, Q I

6 Q. I f you w e r e ' s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r in
q

7 t h e c a s e , what would you b a s e y o u r v e r d i c t o n ?

8 A. (By Mr. Natale) What was presented as

9 e v i d e n c e in the trial.

10 Q. A n d also i f you w e r e s e l e c t e d a s a

11 j u r o r , w o u l d you b e a b l e t o e x c l u d e a n y t h i n g

12 you m i g h t h a v e heard in the n e w s m e d i a

13 accounts about this case?

14 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.
15 Q. And render a d e c i s i o n b a s e d s t r i c t l y

16 on t h e f a c t s a n d e v i d e n c e in the c o u r t r o o m ?

17 A. (By Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

18 Q. M s . Thornton.

19 A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) I, too. I remember

20 at that time, but I haven't heard anything

2 1 since.

22 .Q. O k a y . Ms. T h o r n t o n , I ' l l u s e t h i s a s

23 a c o m m e n t , h a v e you e v e r s e e n a n e w s m e d i a

24 s t o r y t h a t t u r n e d o u t to b e f a l s e d o w n t h e

25 road?

26 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) O h , s u r e .

27 Q. T h e y a r e n o t in h e r e n o w , so I c a n go

28 a h e a d a n d s a y t h i s without o f f e n d i n g a n y b o d y ,

29 b u t is i t a fair statement t o s a y . t h a t t h e

30 n e w s d o e s n ' t a l w a y s g e t the s t o r i e s r i g h t ?

31 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) T r u e .

32 Q. Would you a g r e e t h a t t h e n e w s s t o r i e s

56
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 A. (By M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes.

Q. You feel strongly about t h a t ?

A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes.

Q. Mr. Olague, have you h a d a n y p r e t r i a l

5 publicity exposure t o t h i s case?

I
6 A. (By M r . Olague) Yes, quite a bit.

7 Q. Quite a bit.

8 A. (By M r . Olague) (Juror nods head.)

9 Q. Is it t h e basic a l l e g a t i o n s that I've

10 outlined here?

11 A. (By M r . Olague) Yes.

12 Q. From w h a t you've heard, h a v e you

13 formed any preconceived n o t i o n s of the

14 defendant's guilt or innocence?

15 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) No.
16 Q. If y o u were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r y i n

17 this case, what would y o u , b a s e your d e c i s i o n

18 and verdict on?

19 A. (By M r . Olague) O n l y on t h e f a c t s

20 p r e s e n t e d as evidence.

2 1 Q. The f a c t s p r e s e n t e d h e r e i n court?

22 A. (By M r . Olague) Yes.

23 Q. What you d i d h e a r o r w h a t you were

24 exposed to, w o u l d y o u be a b l e t o e x c l u d e t h a t

25 media p o r t i o n a n d base y o u r d e c i s i o n s t r i c t l y

26 on t h e facts and evidence?

27 A. (By M s . Edwards) I believe so, yes,

28 s i . r.

29 Q. Mr. Walker, how a b o u t y o u ?

30 A. (By M r . Walker) It would'be t h e same.

31 And I m e a n , I've h e a r d a touch of it on t h e

32 TV. Most of what I have heard has been at

 a
.nl !
d
work. T h e e v i d e n c e is going t o s h o w i t . rlra
(3
Q. You've had some discussions with 15%
f IUI

co-workers? l@$l

F"dl

Pd
A. (By Mr. W a l k e r ) N o t d i s c u s s i o n s . 69
Rd
T h e y ' v e j u s t - - they r e a l i z e d t h a t I w a s g o i n g rw
ILI
t o b e on t h e jury possibly a n d they s a i d ,
r'rD
well, y o u k n o w , t h i s g u y , o k a y , y o u k n o w , a n d

t h a t ' s a l l t h a t w a s said. We didn't discuss

it. W e j u s t t a l k e d a b o u t it.

10 Q. W a s i t the basic a l l e g a t i o n s t h a t we

11 h a v e p r e s e n t e d in o u r o u t l i n e ?

12 A. ( B y Mr. Walker) Yes.

13 Q. H a v e you formed any p r e c o n c e i v e d

14 n o t i o n s o f t h e d e f e n d a n t ' s g u i l t y b a s e d on

15 w h a t you've h e a r d prior t o y o u r j u r y s e r v i c e ?

16 A. (By Mr. W a l k e r ) N o .

17 Q. If you w e r e s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r i n

ia t h i s c a s e , w o u l d you b e a b l e t o s h i e l d o r

19 e x c l u d e any media c o v e r a g e t h a t y o u h a v e

20 heard?

21 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

22 Q. And would that affect your decision-

23 m a k i n g in any way?

2'4 A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) No.

25 Q. M s . Clay.

26 A. (By Ms. C l a y ) I h a v e n ' t h e a r d

27 anything.

28 Q. You h a v e n ' t heard anything?

29 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) No.

30 Q. So w o u l d it b e f a i r t o s a y t h a t y o u

31 a r e in h e r e with a c l e a n s l a t e ?

32 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

59
5775
 _-

Q. Any p r e c o n c e i v e ' d n o t i o n s o f the

defendant's g u i l t o r innocence?

A. (By M s . Clay) No.

4 Q. Mr. Jefferson.

5 A. (By M r . Jefferson) I've heard quite a

6 b i t about it, and I heard it talked about

q u i t e a b i t a t work.

Q. Okay. From w h a t you h a v e h e a r d a n d

from what you talked a b o u t , i s i t t h e same

10 b a s i c a l l e g a t i o n s t h a t we h a v e p r e s e n t e d h e r e ?
11 A. (By M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

12 Q. From w h a t y o u ' v e h e a r d a n d f r o m w h a t

13 you h a v e s e e n on t h e news, have you formed any

14 preconceived noti'ons of t h e d e f e n d a n t ' s g u i l t

15 or innocence?

16 A. (By M r . Walker) No.

17 Q. If you w e r e selected a s a j u r o r , what

18 would you base y o u r d e c i s i o n a n d verdict on?

19 A. (By M r . Walker) The evidence.

20 Q. On t h e evidence. Further, i f you w e r e

2 1 selected as a j u r o r i n t h i s case, w o u l d you be

22 able t o s h i e l d a n y p r e t r i a l p u b l i c i t y from

23 your decision- making process?

24 A. (By M r . Walker) Yes.

25 Q. You a r e q u i t e s u r e ?

26 A. (By M r . Walker) Y e s .

27 Q. Ms. Snelling.'

28 A. (By M s . S n e l l i n g ) I have a r e a l c l o s e

29 f r i e n d t h a t had a p e r s o n a l relationship w i t h

30 t h e victim. S o my i n ' f o r m a t i o n c o m e s from h e r

3 1 rather t h a n t h e media.

32 Q. Okay. Ms. Snelling, I ' m b r i n g i n g you

 1 b a c k in a p r i v a t e c a p a c i t y f r o m w h a t y o u ' r e

2 t e l l i n g me a n d f r o m what I ' m g e t t i n g f r o m y o u r

3 d e m e a n o r h e r e might b e s o m e t h i n g w e n e e d t o

4 discuss outside the presence of your fellow

j u r o r s . Okay?

A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) O k a y .

Q. Mr. Walters.

8 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) I d o r e m e m b e r w h e n

9 t h e e v e n t h a p p e n e d a n d vaguely r e m e m b e r s e e i n g

10 some n e w s reports and such on t h a t ' a n d like

11 M a r k N a t a l e , I d i d read the a r t i c l e o n S u n d a y

12 n i g h t , b u t o t h e r w i s e , t h a t ' s it.

13 Q. From what you h a v e r e a d a n d h e a r d , i s

14 it the same basic allegations we have

15 presented?

16 ' A. (By M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes, sir.

17 Q. H a v e y o u formed any p r e c o n c e i v e d

notions of the defendant's guilt or innocence

19 b a s e d on w h a t y o u ' v e h e a r d ?

20 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) N o .

21 Q. I f you were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r in

22 t h i s c a s e , what would you b a s e y o u r v e r d i c t

23 on?

24 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) On t h e f a c t s a n d

25 evidence presented at trial.

26 Q. And you feel s t r o n g l y . a b o u t this?

27 A. ( B y Mr. Walters) Yes.

28 Q. I f you were t o hear a n y o t h e r

29 p r e t r i a l p u b l i c i t y , would you b e a b l e t o

30 s h i e l d t h a t from y o u r d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g p r o c e s s ?

31 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) A b s o l u t e l y .

32 Q. M s . Dixon.
I 1 I A. (By Ms. Dixon) Just w h a t was on the

2 news.
I
3 Q. Okay. And when did you h e a r t h i s

I 4 report?

A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Monday. Sunday o r

Monday.

Q. Sunday o r Monday. And what you

8 heard, i s it the same basic a l l e g a t i o n s we

9 have presented here in our outline?

10 A. (By Ms. Dixon) Yes.

11 Q. From what you have heard, h a v e y o u

12 formed a n y preconceived notions of the

13 defendant's guilt or innocence?

14 A. (By Ms. Dixon) No.

15 Q. If you were selected as a j u r o r , what

16 would y o u b a s e your d e c i s i o n o n ?

17 A. (By Ms. Dixon) The facts a n d e v i d e n c e

18 presented.

19 Q. You feel strongly a b o u t that?

20 A. (By Ms. Dixon) Yes.

21 Q. I f you were selected a s a j u r o r ,

22 would you be able to shield any p r e t r i a l

23 publicity from your decision-making p r o c e s s ?

24 A. (By M s . Dixon) Yes.

25 Q. M s . Hicks.

26 A. (By M s . Hicks) Just b a c k when i t

27 happened.

28 Q. Backed when i t happened?

29 A. (By Ms. Hicks) The n e w s reports.

30 Q. You heard i t on the n e w s ?

31 A. (By M s . Hicks) Urn-hum. Back when i t

32 occurred.

62
5778
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A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.

Q. H a v e you formed any p r e c o n c e i v e d

n o t i o n s of the d e f e n d a n t ' s g u i l t or i n n o c e n c e ?

A. (By Mr. T h o m a s ) No.

Q. I f you were selected as a juror, what

w o u l d you b a s e your verdict o n ?

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) T h e f a c t s a n d t h e
J

evidence.

Q. And y o u feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

A. ( B y Mr. Thomas) Yes.

Q. If you were t o i n a d v e r t e n t l y h e a r

anything, either through community discussions

or s o m e t h i n g t h a t c a t c h e s y o u r a t t e n t i o n o n

the news before you could turn it off, would

y o u b e a b l e t o s h i e l d t h a t from y o u r

decision-making process?

A. ( B y Mr. Thomas). Yes.

Q. Is t h e r e a n y o n e e l s e t h a t w a n t s t h a t

want to a d d t o t h e i r a n s w e r ?

Yes, sir, Mr. Olague.

A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) I d o h a v e p e r s o n a l

information about it.

Q. Okay.

A. (By Mr. O l a g u e ) You may w a n t t o

d i s c u s s it.

Q. L e t me m a k e a n o t e of t h i s , t o

d i s c u s s t h i s in a private s e t t i n g .
-1

Is there anyone e l s e h e r e t h a t n e e d s

to add to their answer? On this first row?

A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) (No response.)

A. (By Ms. Thornton) (No response.)

A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )
 ( B y Mr. Olague) (No response.)

(By Mr. W a l k e r ) (No response.)

On this second row?

( B y Ms. H i c k s ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

5 A. (By M s . Dixon) (No response.)

6 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) (No response.)

7 A. (By Ms. Snelling) (No response.)

8 A. (By Mr. Jefferson) (No response.)

9 A. (By Ms. Clay) (No r e s p o n s e . , )

10 Q- M r . Thomas.

11 A. '(By M r . Thomas) No.

12 Q. Okay. L a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n , I w a n t to

13 t o u c h u p real q u i c k on the c h a r g e t h a t w e a r e

14 p r e s e n t i n g h e r e in c o u r t . This c h a r g e i s
15 g o i n g t o b e d i s c u s s e d m o r e in- depth in t h e

16 s e c o n d r o u n d of voir d i r e i f y o u m a k e i t p a s t

17 t h i s i n i t i a l s e t t i n g , b u t I want t o g i v e y o u a

18 p r e v i e w , so you c a n h a v e a working k n o w l e d g e

19 o f it f o r t h e j u r o r s that d o m a k e i t t o t h e

20 s e c o n d round.

21 First degree murder is the killing of

22 a h u m a n being - -

23 ( W h e r e u p o n a d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e r e c o r d was

24 held.)

25 B Y MR. T H O M P S O N :

26 Q. First degree murder is the killing of

27 a h u m a n b e i n g w h e r e the o f f e n d e r h a s s p e c i f i c

28 intent to kill or inflict great bodily harm.

29 And here's the additional circumstance that

30 e l e v a t e s it f r o m a s e c o n d d e g r e e m u r d e r t o a

31 m u r d e r t h a t c a r r i e s the o p t i o n of c a p i t a l

32 punishment. I t ' s c a l l e d an a g g r a v a t i n g

65
5 7 8 I.
 1 circumstance.
I
2 A n d what we h a v e a l l e g e d h e r e i s t h a t
~

3 t h e o f f e n d e r n o t only k i l l e d a h u m a n b e i n g ,
~

4 had the specific intent to kill or inflict

5 g r e a t b o d i l y h a r m , h e was a l s o e n g a g e d i n

6 another felony. And we have alleged robbery,

7 arson, burglary, kidnapping, or the attempt to

8 k i l l m o r e than one person. Those are the

9 s p e c i f i c e l e m e n t s we are g o i n g t o p r o v e i n

10 t h i s case in o r d e r for the jury t o a r r i v e a t a

11 v e r d i c t o f f i r s t d e g r e e -m u r d e r .

12, Is e v e r y o n e a b l e f r o m Mr. T h o m a s a l l

13 t h e way t o Ms. Clay a b l e t o s e e o u r t e c h n i c a l

14 elements here our outline?

15 A. (By Mr. Natale) Yes..

16 A. (By Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.
.17 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

18 A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) Yes.

19 A. ( B y Mr. Walker) Yes.

20 A. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) Yes.

21 A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes.

22 A. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes.

23 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

24 A. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

25 A. ( B y M s . C l a y ) Yes. .

26 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.

27 Q. D o e s a n y o n e h a v e any q u e s t i o n s so f a r

28 a s t o t h e a c t u a l e l e m e n t s we h a v e t o p r o v e ? I

29 think everybody has a common sense approach to

30 what i s a homi.cide, b u t t h e s e . a r e t h e a c t u a l

31 l e g a l e l e m e n t s t h a t we h a v e t o p r o v e i n o r d e r

32 t,o s u s t a i n a conviction. Any q u e s t i o n s so

 1 far?

2 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) (No response.)

3 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

4 A. (By Ms. E d w a r d s ) (No response.)

I 5 A. (By Mr. O l a g u e ) ( N o response.)
6 A. (By Mr. Walker) (No response.)

7 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )
~

8 A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) ( N o response.)

9 A. (By M r . W a l t e r s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

10 A. (By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

11 A. ( B y Mr. Jefferson) (No response.)

12 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) (No response.)

13 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

14 Q. No o n e i s indicating. When we t a l k
15 a b o u t t h e p e n a l t i e s now f o r ' f i r s t d e g r e e

16 m u r d e r , the p e n a l t i e s c a n b e t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y

17 o r l i f e i m p r i s o n m e n t without b e n e f i t o f

18 probation, parole, or suspension of sentence.

19 Now, n o r m a l l y , t h e f i r s t q u e s t i o n I

20 g e t o u t o f every p a n e l , so I'll g o a h e a d a n d

2 1 a n s w e r i t i s , what d o e s l i f e i m p r i s o n m e n t m e a n

22 h e r e in L o u i s i a n a ? Does that mean they stay

23 in j a i l f o r e v e r , o r d o they g e t o u t a f t e r

24 f i v e , t e n , fifteen years? In Louisiana, life

25 i m p r i s o n m e n t o t h e r than a f e w e x c e p t i o n s

26 related to governors' pardon powers or the

27 p a r o l e b o a r d , l i f e m e a n s life. In o t h e r

28 w o r d s , a n i n d i v i d u a l will d i e a t A n g o l a .

29 T h e o t h e r o p t i o n i s t h e d e a t h penalty.

30 D o e s a n y o n e h a v e any q u e s t i o n s

31 r e l a t e d t o t h e t w o p e n a l t i e s t h a t we a r e

32 s e e k i n g h e r e today for the j u r y ' s

67
5783
 consideration?

A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) (No response.)

A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( N o response.)

I 5 A. (By Mr. O l a g u e ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o response.)

A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Mr. Walters) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. (By Ms. Snelling) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. (By M r . J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

13 A. ( B y Mr. Thomas) (No r e s p o n s e . )

14 Q* With that, ladies and g e n t l e m e n , t h e

I
I 15 p e n a l t y in t h e s e type of c a s e s i s d e p e n d i n g o n
I

I 16 the jury. In most n o r m a l c a s e s , s u c h a s an

I
17 a r m e d r o b b e r y if t h e r e i s a c o n v i c t i o n , t h e n

ia the e l e c t e d j u d g e d e c i d e s t h e s e n t e n c e , b u t in

19 t h e s e s p e c i f i c c a s e s , t h e jury w i l l d e c i d e

20 w h i c h i s t h e a p p r o p r i a t e p u n i s h m e n t in t h i s

21 s p e c i f i c case.

22 D o e s a n y o n e h a v e any q u e s t i o n s o n

23 t h i s f i r s t row?

24 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) ( N o response.)

25 A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) ( N o response.)

‘2 6 A. (By M s . E d w a r d s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

27 A. (By Mr. Olague) (No response.)

28 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) (No response.)

29 A. ( B y Ms. Hicks) (No response.)

30 Q. N o one i s i n d i c a t i n g .

31 Mr. T h o m a s .

32 A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) No.

68
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 A. (By Mr. Natale) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Ms. Thornton) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. (By M s . E d w a r d s ) ( N o response.)

A. (By M r . Olague) (No response.)

A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) (No response.)

Q. Mr. Thomas?

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) No.

Q. O n the s e c o n d row.

A. (By Ms. H i c k s ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Ms. Dixon) (No response.)

A. (By Mr. Walters) (No response.)

A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. (By Ms. C l a y ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

Q. O k a y . Now, l a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n , w h e n

I m o v e n o w t o my n e x t topic, I h o p e e v e r y o n e

h a s h a d an o p p o r t u n i t y t o h a v e s o m e i n n e r

reflection on your honest, truthful thoughts

a n d o p i n i o n s a b o u t the d e a t h p e n a l t y b e c a u s e ,

k e e p in mind, l a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n , i n d o i n g

s o m e o f t h e s e c a s e s , I think t h e w o r s t t h i n g

that could happen is that a juror gets on a

c a s e l i k e t h i s , a n d they s t a t e s o m e t h i n g in

voir dire such as, oh, yeah, I might could be

a b l e t o c o n s i d e r the d e a t h p e n a l t y ' i n a

theoretical or abstract manner, but then when

they g e t t o the m o m e n t of t r u t h a n d e v e n i f

t h e e v i d e n c e warrants it, t h a t j u r o r t e l l s

h i m s e l f , I r e a l l y wish I w o u l d h a v e t o l d the

p r o s e c u t o r in t h e voir d i r e t h a t I c a n ' t d o

t h a t . I mean, I j u s t c a n ' t c o n s i d e r t h i s . It

w a s n ' t e v e n a s e r i o u s option.

70
5786
 I t ' s n o t fair t o the p a r t i e s , a n d it

hurts the process. So does everyone

u n d e r s t a n d t h e i m p o r t a n c e of t h i s n e x t t o p i c

in the h o n e s t a n d t r u t h f u l o p i n i o n s t h a t we

seek?
M r . N a t a l e , I'm g o i n g to start with

you. I'm just going to throw a general

q u e s t i o n o u t . A f t e r we t h r o w t h e s e g e n e r a l

questions, I'm going to bring it back to a

10 r a t i n g s y s t e m b e c a u s e I j u s t n e e d to g e t y o u r

11 general feelings about death penalty.

12 A. (By Mr. Natale) I support it.

13 Q. You s u p p o r t i t ?

14 A. ( B y Mr. Natale) Um-hum.

15 Q. Has this been a longstanding support?

16 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

17 Q. H a s y o u r views e v e r c h a n g e d

18 throughout your life?

19 A. (By M r . N a t a l e ) Not r e a l l y , no.

20 Q. N o w , with the d e a t h p e n a l t y , i s i t

21 s o m e t h i n g , t h o u g h , t h a t you c a n t e m p e r a m e n t t o

22 consider other punishments?

23 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) I t h i n k i t w o u l d h a v e

24 t o d o w i t h what t e s t i m o n y e v i d e n c e w o u l d b e

25 presented of the particular crime, basically

26 h o w h e i n o u s the crime was. And I d o n ' t t h i n k

27 I c o u l d make t h a t o p i n i o n o r f o r m a n o p i n i o n

28 u n t i l I h e a r t h a t evidence. There is no

29 l i t m u s t e s t for me to d e t e r m i n e w h e t h e r o r

30 not - -
i
31 Q. Exactly.

32 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) - - d e a t h p e n a l t y

71
 applies. I would just have to base it upon

what I hear.

4
I Q. O k a y . And I ' m g o i n g t o t o u c h l a t e r o n

into the penalty phase on what a jury must

5 c o n s i d e r , a n d that's g o i n g to b e a l o n g the

7
I l i n e s o f what y o u ' v e s t a t e d .

Ms. T h o r n t o n , h o w d o y o u f e e l a b o u t

8 the death penalty?

9 A. (By Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I guess in a sense

10 I f e e l s i m i l a r t o him. It would depend on

11 what the c r i m e was and the c i r c u m s t a n c e s .

12 Q. Do you think the d e a t h p e n a l t y i s an

13 a p p r o p r i a t e punishment in o u r s o c i e t y ?

14 A. (By Ms. Thornton) In some c a s e s , I

15 do.

16 Q. O k a y . And h a s i t b e e n a l o n g - s t a n d i n g

17 belief of yours, or has your belief ever

18 c h a n g e d t h r o u g h o u t your l i f e ?

19 A. ( B y Ms. Thornton) No. I pretty much

20 felt t h a t way a l l along.

21 Q. Okay.

22 A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) I t h i n k in s o m e

23 cases, it does apply.

24 Q. A n d h a v e you e v e r h a d a n y

25 r e s e r v a t i o n s a b o u t the d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

26 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

27 ' Q. Or h a d a c h a n c e to e v e n t h i n k a b o u t

28 that - -

29 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I d o n ' t g u e s s I ' v e

30 r e a l l y t h o u g h t a b o u t it t h a t m u c h b e c a u s e i t

31 w a s n ' t u p t o me t o m a k e t h a t d e c i s i o n , y o u

32 k n o w , b u t I think in s o m e c a s e s i t i s . You
know, i t would apply.

Q. Okay. Ms. Edwards, how d o you feel

about the death penalty?

A. (By Ms. Edwards) I d o n ' t like t h e

d e a t h penalty.

Q. Okay.
A. (By Ms. Edwards) Because - -

Q. I appreciate your honesty because,

like I s a i d , when I started with the f i r s t

row, t'here were similar answers, y o u r s i s

different, and I appreciate y o u w i t h y o u r

honesty.

Tell m e about why you d o n ' t like the

death penalty.

A. (By Ms. Edwards) I don't l i k e t h e

death penalty because I don't think, I don't

feel t h a t that is in our hands to d o t h a t

because sometimes you may - - the jury may

c o n v i c t a person and you really t h i n k t h a t

t h a t ' s the person and the death penalty i s on

t h a t person, and i f I was convinced a n d I was

a juror and I convicted the person and found

out i t really wasn't t h a t person, i t w o u l d

make me feel real b a d inside. And I d o n ' t

really care for that at all.

Q. Is it a punishment t h a t you t h i n k you

c a n impose or no?

A. (By M s . Edwards) N o , I c a n ' t .

Q. You feel strongly about t h a t ?

A. (By Ms. Edwards) Yes.

Q. H a s this been a long-standing b e l i e f ?

Have you always felt like this y o u r e n t i r e

73

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~~
 .-..

I 1 life?

2 A. (By M s . E d w a r d s ) No, I h a v e n ' t a l w a y s

3 f e l t l i k e t h a t , but i t ' s j u s t g o n e o n t h r o u g h

4 the years.
5 Q. Have y o u e v e r b e e n a s u p p o r t e r o f i t

a n d t h e n y o u r mind h a s c h a n g e d ?

A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes. When it comes

to s o m e c a s e s , like involving c h i l d r e n a n d

a d u l t s a n d t h i n g s , y e s , a n d t h e n I c h a n g e d my
10 m i n d a b o u t t h a t , a n d I felt t h a t l i f e

11 i m p r i s o n m e n t would b e b e t t e r , so t h e y c o u l d

12 c o n s t a n t l y think a b o u t i t .

13 Q. O k a y . Ms. E d w a r d s , I t h a n k y o u f o r

14 your honest answers.

15 Mr. Olague.

16 A. (By Mr. Olague) I support it.

17 Q. You s u p p o r t the d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

18 A. (By M r . O l a g u e ) Yes.

19 Q. H a s t h i s been a l o n g s t a n d i n g s u p p o r t ?
20 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.

2 1 Q. D o you feel t h a t i t ' s a n a p p r o p r i a t e

22 p u n i s h m e n t in o u r s o c i e t y ?

23 A. (By Mr. Olague) In certain cases it

24 is.

25 Q. 'In proper c a s e s . Okay.

26 Mr. Walker, what's your opinion and

27 f e e l i n g s a b o u t the d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

28 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I a g r e e w i t h i t .

29 Q. You a g r e e with i t ?

30 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Ye.s, s i r .

31 Q. Has this been a longstanding

32 agreement?

74
5790
 1 A. (By Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

2 Q. As I a s k e d M r . N a t a l e , i s i t

3 s o m e t h i n g t h o u g h t h a t you c o u l d t e m p e r a m e n t t o

consider other punishment options?

A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) (No r e s p o n s e . )
Q. I k n o w t h a t we h a v e j u r o r s t h a t do

b e l i e v e s t r o n g l y with the d e a t h p e n a l t y , a n d I

a a m g o i n g t o bring the rating s y s t e m o u t i n a

9 little while, but I want to just ask you i n

10 r e f e r e n c e t o a c c e p t i n g any o t h e r p u n i s h m e n t s

11 a s a j u r o r in t h i s p h a s e , w o u l d t h a t b e
12 s o m e t h i n g t h a t you f e e l y o u c o u l d d o ?

13 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I c o u l d - - i f t h e

14 e v i d e n c e was f u l l y s t r o n g , o n e h u n d r e d
15 p e r c e n t , I c o u l d g o with the d e a t h p e n a l t y ; i f

16 t h e r e w a s any d o u b t on my p a r t , I ' d h a v e t o

17 b a c k o f f it.

ia Q. Okay. Ms. C l a y .

19 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) I s u p p o r t t h e d e a t h

20 penalty.

21 Q. You s u p p o r t the d e a t h p e n a l t y .

22 A. ( B y M s . C l a y ) Yes.

23 Q. Has this b e e n a l o n g s t a n d i n g p e r s o n a l

24 s u p p o r t of i t ?

25 A. ( B y M s . Clay) Yes. I ' v e a l w a y s

26 s u p p o r t e d it.

27 Q. I ' m assuming i t ' s s a f e t o s a y y o u

28 f e e l i t s an a p p r o p r i a t e p u n i s h m e n t ?

29 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) If the c r i m e f i t s .

30 Q. The crime has got to fit it, and

3 1 t h a t ' s o u r j o b t o ' m a k e you f e e l c o m f o r t a b l e

32 doing that. That's always a caveat.

75
5791.
 1 A. ( B y Mr. Jefferson) Yes.

2 Q. Ms. S n e l l i n g , w h a t ' s y o u r t h o u g h t s

3 a n d f e e l i n g s a b o u t the d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

4 A. (By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) I s u p p o r t i t .

5 Q. You s u p p o r t i t .

6 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

7 Q. Do you feel that i t ' s a p p r o p r i a t e

8 p u n i s h m e n t in s o c i e t y ?

9 A. (By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes. I n s e v e r e

10 cases.

11 Q. Is t h i s a l o n g s t a n d i n g b e l i e f t h a t

12 you h a v e h a d ?

13 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

14 Q* Has y o u r v i e w e v e r c h a n g e d t h r o u g h o u t
15 your life?

16 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) No.

17 Q. I s it something that you could

18 temperament to consider other penalty

19 provisions?
20 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Y e a h , i t w o u l d ,

21 d e p e n d i n g on t h e c a s e , t h e d e g r e e o f i t .

22 Q. Mr. Walker.

23 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) I s u p p o r t it.

24 Q. You s u p p o r t i t ?

25 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

26 Q. I s it a l o n g s t a n d i n g p e r s o n a l

27 support?

28 A. ( B y M r . Walker) As l o n g a s I c a n

29 remember.

30 Q. Are you able t o c o n s i d e r o t h e r

31 p e n a l t y p r o v i s i o n s a s well?

32 A. (By Mr. Walker) I guess I'd say, you

77
5793
 know, the crime has to fit the punishment. If
r153
t h e p u n i s h m e n t i s the d e a t h p e n a l t y a n d t h e

c r i m e w a r r a n t s i t , then I h a v e t o s u p p o r t i t .
I
Q. O k a y . M s . Dixon.

5 A. (By Ms. D i x o n ) I s u p p o r t i t .

6 Q. Has that been a longstanding support

7 t h a t y o u ' v e had?

8 A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes.

9 Q. Has y o u r o p i n i o n e v e r c h a n g e d

10 throughout your life?

11 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) No.

12 Q. Is i t a p e n a l t y t h a t y o u f e e l y o u

13 c o u l d i m p o s e if the e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t s i t ?

14 A. ( B y Ms. Dixon) Yes, d e p e n d i n g on t h e

15 nature of the crime, yes, sir.

16 Q. A n d are you a b l e t o a l s o t e m p e r a m e n t

17 y o u r f e e l i n g s a b o u t the d e a t h p e n a l t y t o

18 c o n s i d e r o t h e r penalty p r o v i s i o n s ?

19 A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes.

20 Q. Ms. Hicks.

21 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) I ' v e a l w a y s s u p p o r t e d

22 it.

23 Q. Okay. Always supported the death

24 penalty?

25 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Yes.

26 Q* Has your opinion ever changed

27 t h r o u g h o u t your l i f e ?

28 A. (By Ms. Hicks) No.

29 Q. A r e you a b l e to, i f s e l e c t e d a s a

30 juror, to consider other penalty provisions?

31 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Yes.

32 Q. Mr. Thomas.
 .-.. .-..

I 1 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I've n e v e r r e a l l y

~ 2 t h o u g h t a b o u t i t t h a t much. I've never been

~ 3 forced to form an opinion.

I 4

5
I Q. T h i s i s probably t h e h a r d e s t p a r t

s o m e t i m e s , e s p e c i a l l y for this g r o u p who

6 didn't hear the other groups and didn't have a
~

7 c h a n c e t o o v e r n i g h t think a b o u t y o u r o p i n i o n s .

8 W h a t ' s y o u r first i n c l i n a t i o n t h o u g h f r o m w h e n

I
I 9 I first threw it out to you?

10 A. ( B y M r . Thomas) I don't know i f it's

11 r i g h t t o t a k e l i f e , but I think i f , y o u k n o w ,

12 i f t h i s i s t h e justice s y s t e m t h a t w e ' v e s e t

13 u p a n d t h a t ' s what the c r i m e d e m a n d s , t h e n I

14 t h i n k i t probably i s the r i g h t t h i n g .

15 Q. Okay. Is it a penalty that you could

16 s e e y o u r s e l f imposing if t h e e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t s
\

17

18
I it?

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.

19 Q. T h i s i s the gut c h e c k - -

20 A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Yes.

21 Q. - - t h a t I l i k e t o c a l l it. Is t h i s
22 s o m e t h i n g t h a t you think y o u c o u l d d o ?

23 A. (By Mr. T h o m a s ) Um- hum.

24 Q. W o u l d you a l s o b e a b l e to. c o n s i d e r

25 other penalty provisions?

26 A. (By Mr. Thomas) Certainly.

27 Q. Okay. Now, l a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n , I

28 want t o take i t to the n e x t s t e p . This i s our

29 r a t i n g s y s t e m d e v e l o p e d b y the C a d d o d i s t r i c t

30 attorney's office. I'm going to give

31 everybody a second to review the rating

32 system. What I ' m g o i n g t o a s k y o u t o d o i s t o

79
 - .\,

1 rate yourself on which one you think applies

2 best t o you. I w i l l g i v e you a moment t o read

3 it. (Pause.)

4 Has e v e r y o n e h a d a n o p p o r t u n i t y t o

5 read the entire outline?

6 A. (By M r . Natale) Y e s .

7 A. (By M s . Thornton) Yes.

8 A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes.

9 A. (By M r . Olague) Yes.

10 A. (By M r . Walker) Yes.

11 A. (By M s . Hicks) Yes.

12 A. (By M s . Dixon) Yes.

13 A. (By M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes.

14 A. ( B y Ms. Snelling) Yes.

15 A. (By M r . Jefferson) Yes.

16 A. (By M s . Clay) Yes.

17 A. (By M r . Thomas) Yes.

18 Q. Okay. 1'11 b r e a k i t u p a n d s t a r t w i t h

19 you, Ms. Clay.

20 A. (By M s . Clay) I think I ' m a number

21 three.

Q. Number three?

23 A. (By M s . Clay) J u s t depends.

24 Q. And y o u state you're a three. For

25 the record, t h a t means you're e q u a l l y open t o

26 e i t h e r punishment; is that correct?

27 A. (By M s . C l a y ) Um- hum.

28 Q. Ms. Clay, I w i l l u s e you as a n

29 example, too. The c o u r t reporter can't take

30 down a h e a d s h a k e . We n e e d a y e s o r n o f o r t h e

record.

A. (By M s . Clay) Y e s .

80
5796
 .-. .

Q. N o t t o p i c k on you o r a n y t h i n g . Okay.

A. (By M s . Clay) That's fine.

Q. I'm g o i n g t o come b a c k t o t h e r a t i n g

system in the third portion, but y o u feel

s t r o n g l y t h a t you a r e a t h r e e ?

A. ( B Y MS. c l a y ) Um-hum.

Q. Mr. Walker, how w o u l d y o u r a t e

yourself?

A. Probably a four.

10 Q. A four. And for the record, four

11 means you f a v o r l i f e b u t c o u l d impose d e a t h ?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Mr. Olague, how w o u l d y o u r a t e

14 yourself?

15 A. (By M r . O l a g u e ) Two.

16 Q. For t h e record, t h a t means you favor

17 death b u t could impose l i f e ; is that correct?

18 A. (By M r . O l a g u e ) Yes.

19 Q. Mr. Jefferson, how w o u l d y o u r a t e

20 yourself?

21 A. (By M r . Jefferson) I would say a

22 number f o u r , too.

23 Q. Number four. That means, you favor

24 life but c o u l d impose t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

25 A. (By M r . Jefferson) Yes.

26 Q. Ms. Snelling, how w o u l d y o u r a t e

27 yourself?

28 A. (By M s . S n e l l i n g ) Number four.

29 Q. Four. When y o u s a y f o u r , you favor

30 l i f e b u t could impose t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

31 A. (By M s . S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

32 Q. Ms. Edwards, how w o u l d y o u rate

81

5797
 1 y’ourself?

2 A. ( B y M s . Edwards) Five.

3 Q. T h a t means, l i f e i s t h e o n l y

a p p r o p r i a t e sentence for first d e g r e e m u r d e r ?

A. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes.

Q. I was g e t t i n g ready t o a s k

7 MS. Stewart and s h e ’ s -gone.

8 Ms. Thornton.

9 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I’m a number f o u r .

18 Q. Y o u favor l i f e but c o u l d impose the

11 death penalty?

12 A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

13 Q. M r . Walters.

14 A. (By M r . Walters) I ’ d have to s a y

15 four.

16 Q. Four. Favor l i f e b u t c o u l d i m p o s e

17 the death penalty?

18 A. ( B y M r . Walters) Yes.

19 Q. Ms. D i x o n , h o w w o u l d y o u r a t e

20 yourself?

A. (By Ms. Dixon) Number three.

22 Q. Three. Y o u ’ r e e q u a l l y o p e n t o e i t h e r

23 punishment?

24 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

25 Q. Ms. Hicks, h o w w o u l d y o u r a t e

26 yourself?

27 A. (By Ms. Hicks) A three.

28 Q. A three. You a r e e q u a l l y o p e n t o

29 either punishment?

30 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( J u r o r n o d s h e a d . )

31 Q. Mr. N a t a l e , how w o u l d you r a t e

32 yourself?

82

5798
 -
.

1 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Two.

2 Q. Two. You f a v o r d e a t h but c o u l d

3 impose a life sentence?

4 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

5 Q. Mr. T h o m a s , h o w w o u l d y o u r a t e

I 6 yourself?

7 A. ( B y Mr. Tho\mas) A four.

8 Q. Four. I've g o t a lot o f f o u r ' s .

9 Favor l i f e b u t could i m p o s e d e a t h ?

10 A. ( B y Mr. Thomas) Yes.

11 Q. Ms. E d w a r d s , s i n c e y o u ' r e m y only

12 f i v e , I a m g o i n g t o s t a r t with y o u .

13 A. (By Ms. Edwards) Okay.

14 Q. Ms, Edwards, when someone classifies

15 t h e m s e l v e s as a f i v e , I want to ask if t h i s
16 applies to you. I f you were s e l e c t e d f o r t h i s

17 jury, w o u l d you - - a n d you w e r e in t h e p e n a l t y

18 p h a s e , w o u l d y o u a u t o m a t i c a l l y vote f o r l i f e

19 n o m a t t e r what the e v i d e n c e is?

20 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) No. I d o n ' t k n o w

21 what I would do.

22 Q. 'Okay. T h i s i s why we d o t h i s p r o c e s s

23 now - -

24 A. (By Ms. Edwards) Okay.

25 Q. - - b e c a u s e ' t h i s i s t h e g u t wrench

26 time.

27 A. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Yeah, t h i s i s

28 b e c a u s e o f religious, a n d b e c a u s e I d o n ' t

29 think l i f e i s in o u r h a n d s t o t a k e i t f r o m

30 anyone. I know that that person has taken

31 s o m e o n e e l s e ' si l i f e , b u t I f i g u r e t h a t i f t h e y

32 h a v e l i f e in p r i s o n a n d they d i e in p r i s o n
 .-.

!. I
b.6'

a
like you said they would d o , then t h i s would

constantly remind them o f what they h a d done.

Q.' Okay. So let me g o b a c k t o the first

part. Based on what you just said t h e r e , i s

it f a i r to s a y that if you were s e l e c t e d f o r

this jury that no matter what t h e , s i t u a t i o n o r

evidence was that you would s t i l l vote f o r

life?

A. (By M s . Edwards) I would vote f o r

life.

Q. And you would never consider the

death penalty?

A. ,(By M s . Edwards) No, no.

Q. Okay. That would be under a n y

circumstance?

A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( J u r o r n o d s head.)
Q. I need you to say y e s o r no.

A. (By Ms. Edwards) No.

Q. Is this a longstanding p e r s o n a l ,
religious or moral belief? Which o n e would you

characterize i t ?

A. (By Ms. Edwards) I d o n ' t b e l i e v e in

it.

Q. I s i t a personal belief?

A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes.

Q. Okay. How long have you h a d t h i s

personal belief against the death p e n a l t y ?

A. (By M s . Edwards) A long t i m e .

Q. A long time?

A. (By M s . Edwards) Y e s .

Q. Let m e ask you this: Your views

about the death penalty that you are a g a i n s t

 --.

i t , t h a t y o u couldn't impose it, d o you feel

that that would prevent o r substantially

impair y o u r ability to follow the o a t h and

instructions of the Court i f you were a juror

in this case? And do you know what I mean

w h e n I state that? I d o n ' t want any juror to
feel like, well, you know, I'm n o t g o i n g to

n o t d o what a judge tells me - -

A. (By M s . Edwards) No. I ' m g o i n g t o d o

what he asks me to do.

Q. Okay. But if the judge i n s t r u c t s you
t h a t you've g o t to consider the d e a t h penalty,

would y o u r views impair your a b i l i t y t o f o l l o w

that instruction?

A. (By M s . E d w a r d s ) N o . I ' d just f o l l o w

his instructions d o what I h a v e t o do.

Q. Okay. Well - -

A. (By M s . Edwards) B u t I s t i l l wouldn't

feel right about it.

Q. Let me clarify this though b e c a u s e

this i s a fairness issue now.

A. (By M s . Edwards) T h a t ' s right.

Q. I f the judge i s telling you t o

consider the death penalty a s a s e r i o u s

option.

A. (By Ms. Edwards) Right.

Q. Would the death penalty be a n option

for you?

A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes. I just c o u l d n ' t

d o it.

Q. L e t me be clear on your a n s w e r . It's

l i k e y o u ' r e saying one thing - -

85

5301.
_-

Cn
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cn m o c v

h -4
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0 4 J h
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4 C a u k
4J 3 3
a Q) -n
a, k
a a r d
 , -.

1 d o y o u f e e l t h a t way?

2 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes. A g a i n , on

3 c o n s i d e r i n g l i f e - - well, e i t h e r w a y w o u l d

4 d e p e n d on what I hear in the c o u r t r o o m .

5 Q. And so you f e e l t h a t you would b e

6 a b l e t o b e a f a i r j u r o r a s t o b o t h s i d e s in

7 r e f e r e n c e t o either p u n i s h m e n t ?

8 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) I b e l i e v e so.

9 Q. Would you be able t o c o n s i d e r a l l t h e

10 evidence as to b o t h s i d e s a n d t h e n make a
11 decision?

12 A. (By Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

13 Q. Ms. Hicks, you i n d i c a t e d t h a t y o u

14 I were a t h r e e , c o r r e c t ?
15 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) R i g h t .

16 Q. You indicated t h a t y o u a r e e q u a l l y

17 o p e n t o either p u n i s h m e n t ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?

18 A. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) Yes.

19 Q. W o u l d you b e a b l e t o l i s t e n t o a l l

20 t h e e v i d e n c e a s t o whatever i s p r e s e n t e d b y

21 e i t h e r s i d e b e f o r e you made y o u r d e c i s i o n a s

22 t o e i t h e r punishment?

23 A. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) Yes.

24 Q. W o u l d you be able t o c o n s i d e r b o t h

25 punishments?

26 A. (By M s . H i c k s ) Yes.

27 Q. M s . Hicks, I a m g o i n g to d o t h i s w i t h

28 you.

29 I ' m going to c o m e back t o y o u ,

30 M r . N a t a l e , on t,his question.

31 Are you a b l e to s e e t h e ' d e f e n d a n t

32 h e r e in o p e n c o u r t t o d a y ?
 A. (By M s . Hicks) Yes.

Q. Okay. And t h i s i s w h e r e w e t a k e i t

o u t of t h e t h e o r e t i c a l o r a b s t r a c t o r academic

range t h a t I sometimes feel t h e voir dire

process can get into, and I'm going t o bring

Q
br I
it i n t o r e a l i t y h e r e . And s e e i n g

Felton Dorsey h e r e i n open c o u r t today, t h i s

is t h e individual t h a t we are seeking t o

impose t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y o n . So t h i s i s t h e

reality of the situation. Seeing him h e r e i n

open c o u r t , i f y o u were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r i n

t h i s case, w o u l d y o u be a b l e , i f you f e l t t h a t

the evidence warranted the death penalty, t o

be able t o come back here i n open c o u r t and

announce i n open court that that is your

verdict, that I have imposed t h e death p e n a l t y

on F e l t o n Dorsey?

A. (By M s . Hicks) I t w o u l d be v e r y hard

because he's someone's child, but I think I

could.

Q. Okay. Ms. Hicks, I d o n ' t mean t o

upset you. I c a n see y o u ' r e getting a little

upset about it. And t h i s i s why w e d o t h i s

voir dire, i t ' s a tough i n t e r n a l decision w e

want t o make s u r e j u r o r s can c o n s i d e r . Do you

f e e l l i k e t h a t i t c o u l d be s o m e t h i n g t h a t y o u

could do?

A. (By M s . Hicks) It w o u l d be v e r y

difficult, but if the f a c t s a n d e v i d e n c e show

t h a t he i s g u i l t y , I really think I could.

Q. Okay. Do y o u s e e w h y I a s k t h i s

question i n reference t o i f the evidence is

88

5804:
 _.-.

1 there and i f t h e j u r y f e e l s l i k e it, I d o n ' t

2 want any j u r o r s t o say, well, I ' m not doing it

3 because I d o n ' t want go back i n t h e court and

4 see him.

Mr. Natale, same question. Do you

see t h e d e f e n d a n t h e r e i n open c o u r t ?

A. (By M r . Natale) (Juror nods head.)

8 Q. I n seeing t h e defendant h e r e i n open

9 court, if you f e l t that the evidence warranted

10 the death penalty, would y o u b e a b l e t o come

11 back here i n open c o u r t and impose t h e death

12 p e n a l t y on Felton Dorsey?

13 A. (By M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

14 Q. Ms. D i x o n , you i n d i c a t e d t h a t you

15 w e r e a three, correct?

16 A. (By M s . Dixon) Y e s .

17 Q. T h a t means you're e q u a l l y open t o

ia either penalty?

19 A. (By M s . Dixon) Yes.

20 Q. Is the death p e n a l t y a s e r i o u s o p t i o n

21 f o r you i n t h a t f a s h i o n ?

22 A. (By M s . Dixon) Yes. It depends on

23 the evidence.

24 Q. H a s t h i s been a longstanding personal

25 belief about t h e death p e n a l t y w i t h you?

26 A. (By M s . Dixon) Yes.

.
27 Q. Would e i t h e r p e n a l t y be a s e r i o u s

28 o p t i o n f o r you i n t h e p e n a l t y phase?

29 A. (By M s . Dixon) Y e s . Based on

30 whatever the evidence and facts are presented.

31 Q. Is t h e death p e n a l t y something that

32 you c o u l d see y o u r s e l f imposing on someone?

 A. (By M s . Dixon) Yes.

I Q. And y o u f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

A. (By M s . Dixon) Yes.

Q. And a r e y o u a b l e t o s e e F e l t o n D o r s e y

I here i n open court?

A. (By M s . Dixon) Yes.

Q. And s e e i n g t h e d e f e n d a n t h e r e i n open

court, if you f e l t t h a t t h e e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t e d

the death penalty, w o u l d y o u b e a b l e t o come

10 I
i n t o open c o u r t and impose the death penalty
11 on F e l t o n Dorsey?

12 A. (By M s . Dixon) Yes.

13 Q. Do y o u feel strongly about that?

14 A. (By M s . Dixon) Yes.

15 Q. M s . Clay, you indicated that you were

16 a three, a n d you a r e open t o either

17 punishment?

18 A. (By M s . C l a y ) Yes.

19 Q. Is t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y a s e r i o u s o p t i o n

20

21
I f o r you?

A. (By M s . C l a y ) Um- hum. Yes.

,
22 Q. How l o n g h a v e y o u had this belief?

23 A. (By M s . Clay) I've always thought

24 that way. If the evidence m e r i t s it, then I

25 w o n ' t have a n y problem.

26 Q. Would t h e p e n a l t y o f life a l s o be a

27 s e r i o u s o p t i o n for you?

28 A. (By M s . C l a y ) Yes.

29 Q. Would y o u be a b l e t o k e e p a n o p e n

30 mind as t o either punishment?

31 A. (By M s . Clay) Y e s .

32 Q. Are you a b l e t o see t h e d e f e n d a n t

90
 1 h e r e i n open c o u r t ?

2 A. (By M s . Clay) Y e s .

3 Q. Seeing Felton Dorsey h e r e i n open

4 court, i f y o u were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r i n t h i s
I
I
5 case a n d you f e l t t h a t t h e e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t e d
I

6 t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , w o u l d y o u b e a b l e t o come
7 back i n open c o u r t and announce t h a t your

8 d e c i s i o n was t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

9 A. (By M s . C l a y ) Yes.

10 Q. Do y o u f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

11 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) I f t h e e v i d e n c e
12 warrants it, yes.

13 Q. But t h e evidence has t o warrant it,

14 a n d i t ' s my j o b t o m a k e y o u feel comfortable

15 i n doing it.

16 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.
17 Q. That's t h a t caveat.

18 Mr. Olague, you i n d i c a t e d t h a t you

19 were a t w o j u s t l i k e M r . Natale; and t h a t is,

20 someone t h a t favors death b u t could impose a

2 1 life sentence; is that correct?

22 A. (By M r . Olague) Yes.

23 Q. And a s w e i n d i c a t e d h e r e i n o u r

24 outline, that's okay t o f a v o r d e a t h as long as

25 c a n keep a n open mind a n d c o n s i d e r b o t h

26 o p t i o n s as s e r i o u s o p t i o n s .

27 A. (By M r . Olague) Y e s .

28 Q. Do you f e e l t h a t why?

29 A. (By M r . Olague) Y e s .

30 Q. Do y o u f e e l t h a t y o u . w o u l d be a b l e t o

31 c o n s i d e r both o p t i o n s i n t h a t manner?

32 A. (By M r . Olague) Y e s .

91
 ..--,

~ Q. Has this been a longstanding belief

o f y o u r s in reference t o t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

A. ( B y Mr. Olague) Yes.

a A n d as he sits here in open c o u r t

t o d a y , a r e y o u able t o s e e F e l t o n D o r s e y ?

A. (By M r . O l a g u e ) Yes.

Q. A n d if y o u w e r e s e l e c t e d o n t h i s j u r y

a n d y o u felt t h a t the e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t e d t h e

d e a t h p e n a l t y , would y o u b e a b l e t o c o m e b a c k

10

11
h e r e in open c o u r t and a n n o u n c e t h a t y o u h a v e

i m p o s e d t h e d e a t h penalty on F e l t o n D o r s e y a s
I
12 part of this jury?

13 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.

14 Q. Do y o u f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?
15 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.

16 Q. H a v e I missed a n y o t h e r t w o ' s a n d

17 three's? I believe I h a v e c o v e r e d t h e m .

18 Now, l e t me t a l k t o my f o u r ' s here.

19 L a d i e s a n d g e n t l e m e n , in my e x p e r i e n c e , t h i s

20 i s w h e r e a t times, t o o , I want e v e r y b o d y t o

21 s e r i o u s l y consi'der the s a m e q u e s t i o n s I ' v e

22 a s k e d y o u r f e l l o w jurors b e c a u s e in t h i s

23 c l a s s i f i c a t i o n , y o u ' r e an i n d i v i d u a l t h a t

24

25
f a v o r s l i f e , b u t c o u l d c o n s i d e r the d e a t h

penalty.
I
26 So to t h a t e x t e n t , I ' l l s t a r t w i t h

27 y o u , Mr. Thomas. You i n d i c a t e d t h a t y o u w e r e

28 a four; is that correct?

29 A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Yes.

30 Q. The death penalty, is it a serious

31 o p t i o n f o r you as f a r as any c l a s s i f i c a t i o n o f I
32 cases related to first degree murder?

92
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s e n t e n c e for a l l cases t h a t are f i r s t d e g r e e

murders.

Q. O k a y . And a t the e n d of t h e e v i d e n c e

s c h e m e , y o u may n o t b e l i e v e i t ' s a n

appropriate case in that p.articular case.

A. (By M r . Thomas) Right.

Q. B u t going i n t o this c a s e i f y o u w e r e

s e l e c t e d and going i n t o the p e n a l t y p h a s e , i f

t h e r e ' s a c o n v i c t i o n , w o u l d the d e a t h p e n a l t y

be a serious option for you to impose?

A. (By M r . T h o m a s ) Yes.
Q. Do you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.

Q. Now, is there a n y t h i n g a b o u t f a v o r i n g
l i f e , but you could impose a death penalty, is

there anything about that classification that

would hurt your ability to impose the death

penalty?

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) C a n you a s k t h a t
again.

Q. I t ' s probably a b a d q u e s t i o n . Is

t h e r e a n y t h i n g a b o u t what you r a t e d y o u r s e l f

t h a t w o u l d h u r t your a b i l i t y t o i m p o s e t h e

death penalty?

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) No.

Q. Nothing t o t h e e f f e c t o f I ' v e g o t on

the j u r y , l i k e I s t a t e d in my e a r l i e r

statements, and now that I have thought about

i t , I j u s t d o n ' t think I c a n i m p o s e i t i n any

c i r c u m s t a n c e , I probably s h o u l d h a v e r a t e d

myself a five?

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) No, s i r .
 1 Q. As I have asked your fellow j u r o r s ,

2 a r e you able t o see t h e d e f e n d a n t h e r e i n open

3 court?

A. (By M r . Thomas) Um- hum.

CQ . In seeing the defendant, i f you felt

~ that the evidence warranted the death penalty,

w o u l d you p e r s o n a l l y be a b l e t o come b a c k into

8 open court and announce t h a t y o u were p a r t of

9 the decision that imposed the death p e n a l t y on

10 Felton Dorsey?
11 A. (By M r . Thomas) Yes.

12 Q. Do y o u feel strongly about t h a t ?

13 A. (By M r . Thomas) Yes.

14. Q. Ms. Thornton, the same line of

15 questions. I n your rating as a four, is t h e
16 d e a t h p e n a l t y a n o p t i o n f o r a wide r a n g e o f

17 cases o r j u s t a narrow r a n g e o f cases i n a n

18 extreme manner l i k e H i t l e r o r C h a r l e s Manson?

19 A. (By M s . Thornton) Again, I think I

20 w o u l d h a v e t o know w h a t c i r c u m s t a n c e s , of

21 course, children, elderly, .but a life is a

22 l i f e when you t a k e a l i f e .

23 Q. Sure.

24 A. (By M s . Thornton) But I would still

25 want to hear, you know, some more d e t a i l s

26 before I c o u l d make a r e a l l y , truly honest

27 decision.

28 Q. Okay. Is t h e r e a n y t h i n g -- I ' m sorry.

29 I didn't mean t o c u t you off.

30 A. (By M s . Thornton) No, that's okay.

31 Q. Is t h e r e a n y t h i n g about your rating

32 t h a t would h u r t your a b i l i t y t o impose t h e

95

58Pl
d e a t h p e n a l t y in a c a s e ?

A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) No.

Q. I n o t h e r words, y o u ' v e i n d i c a t e d you

f a v o r l i f e , but you c o u l d i m p o s e t h e d e a t h

penalty?

A. (By Ms. Thornton) R i g h t .

Q. Is t h e r e a n y t h i n g a b o u t t h a t belief

t h a t w o u l d h u r t your' a b i l i t y t o i m p o s e t h e

d e a t h p e n a l t y if you f e l t t h e e v i d e n c e m e r i t s

the death penalty?

A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I f I f e l t i t m e r i t s

t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , that's the way I w o u l d g o

with, b u t I mean, t o m e , even l i f e in p r i s o n

w o u l d b e a d e a t h s e n t e n c e in some c a s e s t o t h e

person.

Q. Okay.

A. ( B y Ms. Thornton) I mean, h e o r s h e

w o u l d l o s e r e a l l y the quality o f l i f e i s what

I guess I'm saying. I w o u l d j u s t h a v e to k n o w

w h i c h way t o g o o n , under the c i r c u m s t a n c e s .

Q. Like I announced earlier, are there

a n y f e e l i n g s related t o what I s t a t e d t o t h e

p a n e l a b o u t being on the j u r y a n d t h e n , a l l o f

s u d d e n , midway through the c a s e , y o u f e e l

l i k e , I s h o u l d h a v e t o l d them I ' m a f i v e

i n s t e a d o f a f o u r , I c a n ' t do t h i s , I c a n ' t

impose a death penalty?

A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) No.

Q. Anything to t h a t e f f e c t ?

A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) No.

Q. So you d o feel t h a t t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y

is a s e r i o u s o p t i o n f o r y o u ?
 eig
d-
A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes, it could be. rn
c3

court, a r e you a b l e t o see him?

4 A. (By Ms. Thornton) Y e s .

5 Q. And i n s e e i n g t h e d e f e n d a n t h e r e i n

6 open c o u r t , i f you a r e a p a r t o f t h i s j u r y and

7 you f e l t t h a t the evidence warranted the death

8 penalty, w o u l d you p e r s o n a l l y be a b l e t o come

9 back i n t o open c o u r t and announce t h a t you

10 were p a r t o f t h e v e r d i c t t h a t imposed t h e

11 d e a t h p e n a l t y on F e l t o n Dorsey?

12 A. (By M s . Thornton) If I f e l t one-

13 hundred-percent sure, you know, that h e was

14 guilty, then I could go w i t h it. I

15 Q. So i f you felt that the evidence

16

17
warrants the death penalty,

it?
you c o u l d i m p o s e
II
18 A. (By M s . Thornton) Right.

19 Q. You f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h i s ?
I
20 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

21 Q. Mr. Walker, you've i n d i c a t e d t h a t you

22 were a f o u r .

23 A. (By M r . Walker) (Juror nods head.)

24 Q. To that extent, the same l i n e o f

25 questions, i s there any type of cases t h a t you

26 have narrowed t h i s v i e w to?

27 A. (By M r . Walker) No. J u s t l i k e what

28 I ' v e heard, t h e way I feel, i f the evidence I

29 warrants t h e death penalty, ' I ' m for that. I

30

3 1
have no problem w i t h t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ,

you h a v e t o l o o k a t a l l t h e e v i d e n c e t o see i f
but
I
32 it warrants that.
 Q. Absolutely.

A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I d o f a v o r l i f e . I

f e e l l i k e i f the p e r s o n j u s t c o m m i t t e d a

I 4 crime, they need to go jail and do t h e t i m e

5 a n d e v e r y t h i n g , b u t if i t ’ s - - if i t g o e s l i k e

I 6 H i t l e r , Manson or what h a v e y o u , t h e r e i s no

7 d o u b t i n m y m i n d the d e a t h p e n a l t y n e e d s t o

I 8 go

I 9 Q. This is why I a s k e d this q u e s t i o n ,

I 10 though, would H i t l e r a n d C h a r l e s M a n s o n a n d in
11 c a s e s w h e r e s o m e o n e may b l o w u p a s c h o o l or - -

12 A. ( B y M r . Walker) Right.

‘ 13 Q* - - a b u s load o f children, a lot of

14 j u r o r s state t h a t ’ s easy for me to do, b u t in

15 r e f e r e n c e t o widening the c l a s s e s o f cases

16 t h a t you c o u l d consider the d e a t h p e n a l t y for,

17 w o u l d y o u b e a b l e to d o t h a t ?

18 A. ( B y M r . Walker) I w o u l d b e a b l e t o .

19 Q. You would c o n s i d e r i t a s a s e r i o u s

20 option?

21 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

22 Q. Do you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

23 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

24 Q. Now, t o the e x t e n t t h a t we ’have

25 alleged a first degree murder where i t ’ s a

26 r o b b e r y , a k i d n a p p i n g , an a g g r a v a t e d a r s o n , a n

27 a t t e m p t t o k i l l m o r e one p e r s o n , d o y o u f e e l

28 that t h a t ’ s a case that the death penalty

29 would be a serious option?

30 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I f t h e r e i s a d e a t h

31 i n v o l v e d a n d i t was p r e m e d i t a t e d - -

32 Q. K e e p in mind, w h e n you s a y
"premeditated," that is a TV show word.

A. (By Mr. W a l k e r ) I u n d e r s t a n d .

Q. In s o m e j u r i s d i c t i o n s , p r e m e d i t a t i o n

i s r e q u i r e d . In Louisiana, s p e c i f i c i n t e n t c a n

f o r m in an instant a n d d i s a p p e a r in a n

instance. There's no premeditation in

Louisiana.

A. (By Mr. Walker) If there's a death

involved, yes, I can consider that.

Q. To t h a t e x t e n t , i s t h e r e a n y t h i n g

a b o u t y o u r rating system that would hurt y o u r

a b i l i t y t o i m p o s e the d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) No.

Q. As t o my earlier s t a t e m e n t s a n d the

same questions with y o u r fellow j u r o r s , is

there anything a b o u t b e i n g s e l e c t e d on t h i s
j u r y a n d t h e n , a l l of a s u d d e n , r e a l i z i n g

midway through, I should have rated myself a

f i v e , I c a n ' t c o n s i d e r the d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) No.

Q -. Are t h e r e any t h o u g h t s in t h a t

manner?

A. (By Mr. W a l k e r ) N o .

Q. S e e i n g the d e f e n d a n t h e r e in o p e n

court, are you able to see Felton Dorsey?

A. (By Mr. Walker) Yes, I am.

Q. If y o u felt the e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t e d

the death penalty, would you be able to impose

t h a t s e n t e n c e and announce i t i n o p e n c o u r t ?

A. (By Mr. Walker) Yes, sir.

Q. M r . Jefferson, s a m e q u e s t i o n s . You

rated y o u r s e l f a f o u r . Is there only a narrow

 c l a s s o f cases t h a t y o u w o u l d c o n s i d e r t h e

death penalty?

A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) N o .

Q. C o u l d you explain what you w o u l d

consider the death penalty for?

I

A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Any c a s e s t h a t c a n

p r o v e t o me without a d o u b t t h a t t h e y a c t u a l l y

d i d the c r i m e , I h a v e n o p r o b l e m t h a t , b u t if

you c a n n o t p r o v e ' i t w i t h o u t a d o u b t , I h a v e a

p r o b l e m with it.

Q. O k a y . Let me a s k y o u t h i s : In your

earlier round of statements, it you looked

l i k e you were wrestling with the dec'ision, a n d

then YOU i n d i c a t e d i f i t was for children I

c o u l d d o i t , s o m e extreme cases of that

n a t u r e , a r e there any t h o u g h t s a l o n g t h o s e

l i n e s t h a t you s t i l l feel?

A. ( B y Mr. Jefferson) No..

Q. W h a t was giving you e a r l i e r

reservations?

A. (By Mr. Jefferson) I have some kids

of s o m e f r i e n d s o f m i n e l o s t a k i d in a m u r d e r

c a s e a n d t h a t w a s it. It t o u c h e d o n - - a n d

with k i d s , t h a t ' s why I p u t the e m p h a s i s o n

that one.

Q. W e l l , let me s t a t e t h i s , i n t h i s

p a r t i c u l a r c a s e , there w a s n o k i d s - -

A. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) No.

Q. - - t h a t were k i l l e d . And I mean,

it's not a situation of a Hitler, where there.

was mass death, nothing to that extreme,

extreme spectrum. It's a homicide, as we have

 1 alleged, committed while t h e y ' r e in the

2 commission o f a felony, a robbery, kidnapping,

3 arson, a t t e m p t e d t o k i l l more t h a n o n e v i c t i m ,

4 i s t h a t a s c e n a r i o where you c o u l d e n v i s i o n

5 ' i m p o s i n g the death penalty if you felt the

6 evidence warranted it?

7 A. (By M r . Jefferson) Yes.

8 Q. Do you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

9 A. (By M r . Jefferson) Yes.

10 Q- . Do you feel i f you a r e a j u r o r t h a t

11 c o u l d impose t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

12 A. (By M r . Jefferson) Oh, yeah.

13 Q. A s t o my s t a t e m e n t s e a r l i e r i n

14 r e f e r e n c e t o a j u r o r t h a t g e t s on a case l i k e

15 t h i s and then m i d w a y through realized, I

16 s h o u l d h a v e t o l d t h e DA I w a s a f i v e , I can't

17 impose a death p e n a l t y , o r any f e e l i n g of that

18 nature.

19 A. (By M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Whatever t h e

20 e v i d e n c e show m e a n d p r o v e t o m e , that creates

21 no problem.

22 Q. NOW, i n reference t o seeing the

23 defendant here i n open c o u r t , a r e you a b l e t o

24 see F e l t o n Dorsey?

25 A. (By M r . Jefferson) Yes, I am.

26 Q. S e e i n g h i m a s t h e p e r s o n who w e ' r e

27 s e e k i n g t h e death p e n a l t y on, i f you felt that

28 the e v i d e n c e w a r r a n t s i t , w o u l d you be a b l e t o

29 come b a c k i n o p e n c o u r t a n d a n n o u n c e t h a t y o u

30 were a p a r t o f the verdict that imposed t h e

31 death penalty on F e l t o n Dorsey?

32 A. (By M r . Jefferson) Yes.

 Q *' Do you feel strongly about t h a t ?

A. (By Mr. Jefferson) Yes.

Q. Ms. Snelling.

A. (By Ms, Snelling) Yes, I c o u l d impose

the death penalty if the evidence warrants
that.

Q. Now, in rating yourself a f o u r , i s

there a narrow class o f c a s e s that you are

willing to consider?

A. ( B y M s . Snelling) N o .

Q. Such cases a s extreme a s H i t l e r o r

child cases?

A. (By Ms. Snelling) Definitely those,

b u t I would consider others, too.

Q. The case that we have alleged t o d a y ,

we c a n ' t g e t i n t o the facts, but the e l e m e n t s

we have presented a s far as the k i l l i n g during

the commission o f a robbery, kidnapping, arson

o r a n attempt to kill more than one p e r s o n , d o

you feel that that i s a charge that you c o u l d

seriously consider the death penalty f o r ?

A. (By Ms. Snelling) Yes.

Q. In seeing the defendant here i n o p e n

c o u r t today and understanding t h a t t h a t i s the

individual that we s e e k to impose the d e a t h

penalty on, if you felt that e v i d e n c e

warranted that imposition, would you be a b l e

to come back here in open court a n d a n n o u n c e

t h a t you were part o f the jury verdict t h a t

imposed the death penalty on Felton Dorsey?

A. (By M s . Snelling) Yes.

Q. D o you feel strongly about t h a t ?

102
 ..-

A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

Q. Is there anything I stated earlier

a b o u t j u r o r s t h a t get on t h e s e t y p e o f j u r i e s

a n d t h e n m i d w a y through t h e c a s e r e a l i z e , I

should have told the D A I w a s a five, I can't

d o t h i s ; d o you h a v e any f e e l i n g s a b o u t that?

A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) No.

Q. Mr. Walters.

A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) I m e a n , t h e d e a t h

penalty i s w h a t i t is. If the evidence

warrants it, then it warrants it, but I'm

sure, like everyone else on this jury, nobody

favors the death penalty. We favor life in

general, but if somebody commits a crime so

h e i n o u s t h a t i t falls u n d e r t h e g u i d e l i n e s of

o u r l a w s a n d o u r justice s y s t e m , t h e n I h a v e

t o f a c t o r in the d e a t h p e n a l t y .

Q. O k a y . Do you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t

that?

A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Yes.

Q. Is that a longstanding belief?

A. (By M r . Walters) Yes.

Q. As I h a v e a s k e d y o u r f e l l o w j u r o r s ,

d o e s y o u r r a t i n g a l l o w you only c o n s i d e r a t i o n

on a n a r r o w c l a s s o f c a s e s , o r i s i t a w i d e

spectrum?

A. ( B y M r . Walters) No. It would be a

wide spectrum.

Q. Okay.

A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) If the c r i m e f i t s

t h e p u n i s h m e n t then so b e i t .

a. The allegations that we have

p r e s e n t e d t o you a s far a s a h o m i c i d e

committed during a robbery, kidnapping, arson,

t h e a t t e m p t to k i l l more than o n e p e r s o n , i s

t h a t a c h a r g e t h a t you feel t h a t t h e d e a t h

p e n a l t y w o u l d b e a s e r i o u s o p t i o n for?

A. (By M r . Walters) As I s t a t e d , I m e a n ,

I f a v o r l i f e in g e n e r a l , b u t if t h e c r i m e f i t s

e x a c t l y what was on that s c r e e n , t h e n t h e

d e a t h p e n a l t y i s that o p t i o n . Then I would

have to consider that option.

Q. Is it s o m e t h i n g t h a t you f e e l t h a t

you could impose?

A. (By Mr. W a l t e r s ) Yes.

Q. Now, in r e f e r e n c e , t o seeing the

d e f e n d a p t h e r e in open c o u r t t o d a y , a r e y o u

a b l e t o s e e Felton D o r s e y ?

A. ( B y Mr. Walters) Y e s , I c a n .

Q. A n d s e e i n g him a s the l i v e p e r s o n

t h a t we i n t e n d t o i m p o s e , t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y o n

h e r e in o p e n c o u r t , w o u l d you b e a b l e t o b e

p a r t o f t h e verdict t h a t c o m e s b a c k a n d

i m p o s e s t h e d e a t h penalty o n F e l t o n D o r s e y if

y o u f e l t t h a t t h e evidence m e r i t s t h a t

imposition?

A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Y e s .

Q. D o you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?
\

A. '(By M r . Walters) Yes.

Q. Ms. .Dixon, h a v e I c o v e r e d y o u yet?

A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes.

Q. M s . Hicks, I got you.

Is t h e r e a n y o n e e l s e t h a t I m i s s e d

h e r e on t h i s p a n e l ?
A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) No.

A. (By Ms. T h o r n t o n ) No.

A. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) No.

A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) No.

A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) No.

A. ( B y Ms. Hicks) No.

A. (By Ms. D i x o n ) No.

A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) No

A. (By Ms. Snelling) No.

A. (By Mr. Jefferson) No.

A. (By M s . Clay) No.

A. (By Mr. T h o m a s ) No.

M R . THOMPSON: Your H o n o r , may I

approach briefly with d e f e n s e c o u n s e l .

( W h e r e u p o n a side- bar discussion off t h e

r e c o r d was h e l d . )

THE COURT: Please take the jury out.

( W h e r e u p o n the venire p a n e l w a s e x c u s e d from

the c o u r t r o o m . )

THE COURT: B e f o r e we b r e a k , I n e e d t o

p u t o n e t h i n g on the r e c o r d , a n d t h a t i s in

r e f e r e n c e to M s . J o a n n e S t e w a r t w h o w a s

e x c u s e d by t h e C o u r t f o r c a u s e , a n d I b e l i e v e

w i t h o u t o b j e c t i o n from the S t a t e a n d d e f e n s e ;

is that correct?

MR. T H O M P S O N : Yes, sir.

T H E COURT: Is t h a t c o r r e c t , d e f e n s e ?

MR. MCCLATCHEY: Y e s , s i r , Y o u r Honor.

THE COURT: B a s i c a l l y , Ms. S t e w a r t ' s

d a u g h t e r i s an a s s i s t a n t d i s t r i c t a t t o r n e y

with the district attorney's office

p r o s e c u t i n g t h i s case. In a d d i t i o n , b e c a u s e
 -..

7
of t h e n a t u r e of the c a s e , s h o u l d t h e r e b e a m
GI

C o u r t of Appeals Federal C o u r t i n which h e r

h u s b a n d i s a sitting judge. A n d f o r those

reasons, the Court will excuse her for cause.

MR. T H O M P S O N : For t h o s e r e a s o n s , w e

p o s e n o objections.

10 ( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d

11 from the venire p a n e l . )

12 THE COURT: Thank you. We will be in

13 r e c e s s for ten m i n u t e s .

14 (Whereupon a s h o r t r e c e s s was t a k e n . )
15 ( W h e r e u p o n t h e d e f e n d a n t was p r e s e n t w i t h

16 counsel. )

17 MR. THOMPSON: Recalling the case of

18 S t a t e of Louisiana v s . F e l t o n D o r s e y ,

19 D o c k e t No. 2 5 1 , 4 0 6 , the d e f e n d a n t i s p r e s e n t

20 with c o u n s e l , Mr. A l a n G o l d e n a n d

21 Mr. D a v i d M c C l a t c h e y . Dhu Thompson and

22 Mr. C h a r l e s S c o t t f o r t h e d i s t r i c t a t t o r n e y ' s

23 office. W e a r e o u t s i d e t h e p r e s e n c e o f the

24 jury. W e are r e a d y t o p r o c e e d w i t h v o i r d i r e .

25 THE COURT: Is t h e d e f e n s e r e a d y .

26 M R . MCCLATCHEY: Yes, Your Honor.

27 THE COURT: All r i g h t . You may bring

28 them in.

29 ( W h e r e u p o n the venire p a n e l w a s s e a t e d in the

30 courtroom.)

31 THE COURT: A l l right. Is t h e S t a t e

32 ready to proceed.

106
 MR. T H O M P S O N : We are, Your H o n o r .
THE COURT: A l l right.

FURTHER VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

BY MR. THOMPSON:

Q. Good day again, ladies and gentlemen.

I h o p e the b r e a k h a s r e e n g e r g i z e d u s f o r t h e

l a s t p a r t of t h e voir dire. My next topic

c e n t e r s on c o m m u n i t y v i e w s a b o u t t h e d e a t h

penalty.

N o w , when I t h i n k a b o u t my community,
I a l w a y s c h a r a c t e r i z e it c h u r c h , e x t e n d e d

family, rugby team, tennis team, basketball

b u d d i e s . So I want t o a s k y o u a s t h e l a d i e s

and g e n t l e m e n of this v e n i r e p o o l , s t a r t i n g
with y o u , Mr: Natale, w h o m a k e s u p y o u r
- ,

community?

A. (By Mr. Natale) Family, co-workers,

p e o p l e I a s s o c i a t e with.

Q. H a v e you e v e r d i s c u s s e d t h e t o p i c o f

t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y with t h e m ?

A. (By Mr. Natale) Sure.

Q. And d o you know what t h e i r v i e w s a r e

about the death penalty?

A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Many o f t h e m , y e s .

Q. A r e they in f a v o r o f i t o r a g a i n s t

it?

A. (By Mr. Natale) Overwhelmingly in

f a v o r of it.

Q. O v e r w h e l m i n g l y in f a v o r . Okay. With

t h e i r v i e w s a n d knowing t h a t t h e y a r e

o v e r w h e l m i n g l y in. f a v o r o f i t , i f y o u ,were

s e r v i n g a s a j u r o r in t h i s c a s e a n d y o u w e r e
r,!
 family.

2 Q. Do you know what their views are on

3 the death penalty?

4 A. (By M s . Thornton) Some of them, but

5 it's not something that we have really talked

6 about that much, though.

7 Q. Okay. So you d o n ' t really know what

8 their views are one way or the other?

9 A. (By M s . Thornton) No.

10 a. If you were to render a decision in

11 this case, whether it be for the death penalty

12 or for a life sentence, I ' l l start with the

13 death penalty, would that be something that

14 you would f e e l c o m f o r t a b l e , y o u c o u l d g o b a c k
15 to your family and friends a n d live with that

16 decision?

17 A. (By Ms. Thornton) Yes, it would be my

18 decision. It wouldn't have anything to d o

19 with t h e m .

20 Q. The same with a life sentence?

21 A. (By Ms. Thornton) Right.

22 Q. If you had to render the d e a t h

23 penalty and going back to your community and

24 with yourself, is that a decision that you

25 could live with in your heart, once again the

26 decision i s based on the facts and the

27 evidence?

28 A. (By M s . Thornton) Right.

29 Q. Well, I ' v e always heard jurors say,

30 well, I've got to live with it, too; is that a

31 decision that you feel that you could live

32 with in your heart?

 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

Q. You feel strongly a b o u t t h a t ?

A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

Q* Ms. Edwards, I d o n ' t want t o make it

seem like I'm being rude by passing you, but
I ' v e g o t y o u r v i e w s d o w n as f a r as t h e d e a t h

p e n a l t y , so I feel l i k e t h e s e q u e s t i o n s may

n o t h i t with you. So I d o n ' t want you t o f e e l

rude if I am going to skip you, okay - - or I

10 don't want you t o feel l i k e I'm b e i n g rude.

11 Mr. O l a g u e , w h o m a k e s u p y o u r

12 community?

13 A. ( B y Mr. Olague) R e t i r e d m e m b e r s of

14 the fire department and my family.

15 Q. Do you k n o w what t h e i r l v i e w s are the

16 death penalty?

17 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.. I t w o u l d 'be

18 o v e r w h e l m i n g l y f o r the d e a t h p e n a l t y .

19 Q. O v e r w h e l m i n g l y f o r the d e a t h p e s a l t y .

20 A. (By Mr. O l a g u e ) (Juror nods head.)

21 Q. If you 'were t o sit o n t h i s j u r y a n d

22 y o u v o t e d f o r the d e a t h p e n a l t y , w o u l d t h a t b e

23 a d e c i s i o n t h a t you c o u l d g o b a c k t o y o u r

24 community and friends live with?

25 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.

26 Q. I f you h a d t o vote f o r a l i f e

27 s e n t e n c e because you felt t h a t t h a t w a s t h e

28 b e s t p u n i s h m e n t based on t h i s p a r t i c u l a r c a s e ,

29 i s t h a t a d e c i s i o n t h a t you feel l i k e y o u

30 c o u l d g o b a c k t o your c o m m u n i t y a n d l i v e w i t h ?

31 A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) Yes.

32 Q. Either penalty, whether it be the

 ---.

d e a t h p e n a l t y or a l i f e s e n t e n c e , w o u l d y o u

f e e l l i k e y o u c o u l d live with t h a t d e c i s i o n in

your heart?

A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.

5 Q. Do you feel strongly a b o u t t h a t ?

6 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes, s i r , I d o .

7 Q. Mr. W a l k e r , s a m e q u e s t i o n .

8 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I t ' s t h e c o m m u n i t y ,

9 church, co- workers. As f a r as g o i n g b a c k a n d

10 t e l l i n g t h e m s o m e t h i n g if they asked m e , t h e y

11 w o u l d h a v e the s a m e views t h a t I ' v e g o t f o r

12 t h e m o s t of them t h a t I ' v e t a l k e d to. I

13 \
h a v e n ' t t a l k e d t o a l o t o f them in d e t a i l t o

14 k n o w this because I ' v e felt l i k e i t was

15 something that's personal. But if I d o t a l k

16 s o m e b o d y , e s p e c i a l l y . m y wife, I k n o w w h a t h e r

17 view i s , I d o n ' t h a v e a p r o b l e m t e l l i n g h e r ,

18 but a s f a r g o i n g b a c k and d i s c u s s i n g i t ,

19 unless I was just cornered, I would keep it to

20 myself.

21 Q. Okay.

2 2' A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) T h a t ' s b e t w e e n m e and

23 t h e jury.

24 Q. W o u l d you l e t a n y o f y o u r c o m m u n i t y

25 v i e w s a f f e c t your d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g a b i l i t y a s

26 to this decision?

27 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) No.

28 Q. Either decision, would you be able to

29 l i v e w i t h t h a t in y o u r h e a r t ?

30 A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) Yes.

31 Q. With your community and with your

32 friends?
 --"..

0 .-.

1 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes, I would.

2 Q. Do y o u f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

A. (By M r . Olague) Yes.

I 4 ,Q. Ms. Clay.

I 5 A. (By M s . Clay) Yes.

6 Q. Who m a k e s u p y o u r c o m m u n i t y i n y o u r
7 mind?

8 A. (By M s . C l a y ) My h u s b a n d i s a p a s t o r ,

9 s o w e p r e t t y much l i v e t h e r e . We h a v e n e v e r

10 discussed t h e death penalty w i t h everybody

11 there. We h a v e o t h e r t o p i c s t o t a l k a b o u t .
12 Q. Okay. So y o u r h u s b a n d i s a p a s t o r ?

13 A. (By M s . Clay) Yes.

14 Q,. A r e you affiliated with the church?

15 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) I am.
16 Q. And w h a t d o y o u d o w i t h t h e c h u r c h ?

17 A. (By M s . C l a y ) Well, I mean, like I

18 h e l p him.

19 Q. Oh, okay. Do y o u k n o w a n y o f the

20 v i e w s of y o u r c h u r c h m e m b e r s ?

21 A. (B'y M s . C l a y ) We've never discussed

22 it ever, honestly.

23 Q. Okay.

24 A. (By M s . Clay) There's probably pro

25 and con, but it wouldn't a f f e c t my v i e w .

26 Q. If y o u w e r e t o s i t o n t h i s j u r y a n d

27 i f y o u were t o r e n d e r t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , would

28 t h a t be something t h a t you would f e e l 1

29 c o m f o r t a b l e g o i n g b a c k t o you community and t o

30 your friends with?

31 A. (By M s . Clay) I probably wouldn't

32 t a l k t o them about it, h o n e s t l y . Yeah, i f it

112
5828
 came u p in the conversation.

Q. Being associated with the c h u r c h and

having a husband that's a pastor, I k n o w

sometimes, you know, some pastors may s h a r e

t h e f e e l i n g s against the death penalty.

A. (By Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

Q. And the church may have some f e e l i n g s

against the death penalty, especially, the

Catholics.
\

10 A. ( B y M s . C l a y ) I a m n o t Catholic.

11 Q. Well, to that extent, would you feel

12 comfortable going back to your church, t o your

13 husband i f you had to render the d e a t h

14 penalty?
15 A. ( B y Ms. Clay) I t wouldn't matter t o

16 me. Honestly, I d o n ' t think i t would c o m e up

17 in the conversation.

18 Q. Okay.

19 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) I mean, I wouldn't g o

20 back and blab, oh, this i s what h a p p e n e d .

21 It's just not something that we would talk

22 about.

23 Q. So would your community views i n any

24 way affect your decision- making a b i l i t y in

25 this case?

26 A. (By M s . C l a y ) No, n o t at all.

27 Q. Would you be able t o l i v e with y o u r

28 decision in your heart and in a p e r s o n a l

29 manner, whatever decision you r e n d e r ?

30 A. (By Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

31 Q. And you feel strongly a b o u t t h a t ?

32 A. (By Ms. C l a y ) I would.

 .-.

Q. Mr. J e f f e r s o n , same q u e s t i o n , who

makes up your community? I 621

A. (By M r . J e f f e r s o n ) My f a m i l y a n d

4 c o - w o r k e r s . And a s f a r a s t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , I

5 have no e a r t h l y idea what t h e i r f e e l i n g s are.

6 A s f a r as t a l k i n g t o them, I d o n ' t k n o w my

7 f a m i l y v i e w s o r my c o - w o r k e r s . And w o u l d i t

8 I c h a n g e my m i n d ? n o , i t w o n ' t c h a n g e my m i n d .

9 Q. Would t h e c o m m u n i t y v i e w s i n a n y way

10 change your o r affect your decision- making?

11 A. (By M r . J e f f e r s o n ) No.
I
12 Q. If you h a d t o r e n d e r t h e d e a t h

13 penalty, w o u l d t h a t be a d e c i s i o n t h a t you I
1 4 c o u l d g o back t o y o u r community a n d t o y o u r

15 f r i e n d s and i n d i c a t e t h a t t h a t was my
I
16 decision?

17 A. (By M r . Jefferson) Yes, and i t ' s none

18 of their business, anyway.

19 Q. You made a n i n t e r e s t i n g c o m m e n t

20 earlier i n reference t o the hardship s i t u a t i o n

21 a n d t h a t God w o u l d t a k e c a r e o f it.

22 A. (By M r . Jefferson) Urn-hum.

23 Q. In reference t o that, is there

24 a n y t h i n g about any r e l i g i o u s views t h a t would

25 h u r t y o u r a b i l i t y t o impose t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y

26 i n a n y way?

27 A. (By M r . Jefferson) If the crime f i t s ,

28 i f t h e crime j u s t i f i e s d e a t h , i t ' s d.eath.

29 Q. And a s I ' v e a s k e d y o u r f e l l o w j u r o r s ,

30 w o u l d y o u be a b l e t o l i v e w i t h y o u r d e c i s i o n

3 1 i n y o u r he,art t o whatever d e c i s i o n you make a s

32 far as the penalty?

I
 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

Q. M s . Snelling.

A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) C h u r c h , c o - w o r k e r s ,

4 family. A n d I know m y co-workers.

5 Q. O k a y . What are t h e i r f e e l i n g s ?

6 A. ( B y Ms. Snelling) T h e y a r e p r o t h e

7 death penalty. It hasn't come up in the

8 n e i g h b o r h o o d or a s far as g o i n g b a c k , I

9 p r o b a b l y w o u l d n ' t , t a l k a b o u t it. I t ' s m y

10 d e c i s i o n , anyway.

11 Q. W o u l d their views a f f e c t y o u r

12 d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g ability?

13 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) No.

1 4 Q. In e i t h e r d e c i s i o n that you make,

15 w o u l d y o u b e a b l e t o l i v e with t h a t ?

16 A. ( B y M s . Snelling) I'm g o i n g t o

17 h o n e s t l y s a y I would h o p e so, b u t I c a n ' t s a y

18 honestly.

19 Q. W h a t g i v e s you i s s u e w i t h that?

20 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) J u s t , you k n o w ,

2 1 being responsible for taking someone's life.

22 Q. K e e p i n mind, i t i s a jury d e c i s i o n ,

23 it's a punishment provided by law.

24 A. ( B y M s . Snelling) R i g h t .

25 Q. I hate for a juror to take the

26 p o s i t i o n , I t o o k s o m e b o d y ' s l i f e to t h a t

27 extent, but - -

28 A. (By M s . Snelling) I understand, but

29 s t i l l , I was p a r t o f t h a t d e c i s i o n , i t d o e s

30 h a v e t o b e unanimous, r i g h t ?

31 Q. Yes, it has to be unanimous.

A. (By Ms. Snelling) I w o u l d b e a p a r t

 .-

of that.

Q. T h a t ' s why I k e e p h i t t i n g on t h i s

process.

A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) A n d I c a n ' t

h o n e s t l y s a y t h a t , y e a h , 1'11 be able to live

with myself.

Q. Do you s t i l l feel t h a t yo'u w o u i d

be capable to serve - -

A. (By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) I f e e l l i k e I c o u l d
I
10 capably d o it. I ' m n o t s u r e h o w I w o u l d feel

11 a b o v t it.

12

13
Q.
honesty.
M s . Snelli.ng, I thank y o u f o r y o u r '
I
14 M r . Walters.

15 A. ( B y Mr. Walters) N a t u r a l l y , c h u r c h ,

16 n e i g h b o r h o o d a n d family. Have I discussed?

17 n o t - - m a y b e in a g e n e r a l term o v e r t h e term

18 o f y e a r s , b u t s o m e a r e p r o a n d s o m e a r e con.

19 Q. Okay.

20 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) I r e a l l y d o n ' t g e t

21 b o t h e r e d by what o t h e r p e o p l e t h i n k . I n e v e r

22 h a v e . I mean, I live with what I l i v e w i t h in

23 my .heart.

24 Q. W o u l d your c o m m u n i t y v i e w s i n a n y way

25 affect your decision-making ability?

26 A. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) In n o w a y , s h a p e . o r

27 form.

28 Q. W o u l d you be able t o l i v e with

29

30
w h a t e v e r penalty you i m p o s e w i t h y o u r

community and your friends?

I
31 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) A b s o l u t e l y , y e s .

32 Q. Do you feel t h a t you c o u l d l i v e with

 1 w h a t e v e r d e c i s i o n you m a k e i n y o u r h e a r t in P"VY ,

FY
2 this case?

3 A. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes. It's not

4 something I would discuss openly with anybody.

5 It is o u r c h o i c e , and t h a t ' s w h a t w e w o u l d

6 h a v e t o l i v e with, and I c o u l d l i v e w i t h t h a t .

7 Q. M s . Dixon, w h o m a k e s u p y o u r

8 community?

9 A. (By Ms. Dixon) All o f t h e a b o v e .

10 Q* When you say "all of the above" - -

11 A. (By Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.
12 Q. - - church, neighborhood?
13 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

14 Q. E x t e n d e d family?

15 A. (By Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

16 Q. S o c i a l clubs. Are you p a r t o f a n y

17 I
social clubs?

18 A. (By M s . D i x o n ) Yes.

19 Q. W h a t o n e s are you a p a r t o f ?

20 A. (By Ms. Dixon) Sorority.

21 Q. D o you k n o w what y o u r c o m m u n i t y v i e w s

22 are o n t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

23 A. (By Ms. Dixon) N o , I ' v e n e v e r

24 d i s c u s s e d it.

25 Q. N e v e r d i s c u s s e d it with t h e m ?

26 A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) No.

27 Q. As far a s the d e c i s i o n y o u w o u l d m a k e

28 in t h i s c a s e , if y o u w e r e to vote f o r t h e

29 death penalty, would that be a decision that

30 you c o u l d l i v e with, with y o u r f r i e n d s , y o u r

31 community, your social clubs?

32 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) I mean, I w o u l d b e
 a b l e to make the decision. I wouldn't really

d i s c u s s it.

Q. I am sorry?
I
4 A. (By Ms. Dixon) I would be a b l e t o

5 live with t h e decision, b u t I w o u l d n ' t b e open

I
I
' to a n y o p e n discussion with other people.

Q. Would it be a private d e c i s i o n f o r

you?

A. (By M s . Dixon) Yes.

10 Q. Would their view in any way affect

11 your decision-making ability?

12 A. (By Ms. Dixon) N o .

13 Q. I f you were to render the d e a t h

14 penalty, would that be a decision that you

15 c o u l d l i v e with in your heart?

16 A. (By Ms. Dixon) Yes.

17 Q. D o you feel strongly about that?

18 A. (By Ms. Dixon) But I think o n c e you

19 make that decision, you need t o k n o w t h a t you

20 made the decision and you move o n .

2 1 Q. Is that something t h a t you f e e l like

22 you can d o ?

23 A. (By Ms. Dixon) Yes.

24 - Q. Ms. Hicks.

25 A. (By Ms. Hicks) Church, e x t e n d e d

26 family, co-workers.

27 Q. D o you know what their views are o n

28 the d e a t h penalty?

29 A. (By Ms. Hicks) For the most p a r t ,

30 they are for the death penalty.

31 Q. Would their views in any way a f f e c t

32 your decision-making ability a b o u t a

 1 p u n i s h m e n t in t h i s c a s e ?

I 2 A. ( B y Ms. Hicks) N o .

I 3 Q. As I a s k e d Mr. N a t a l e , if i t w a s a
4 life' s e n t e n c e , w o u l d you b e a b l e t o g o b a c k t o

5 y o u r c o m m u n i t y . w i t h your decision?
I
6 A. (By Ms. Hicks) Yes.

7 Q. And if you had to render the death

8 penalty, would that be a decision that you

9 c o u l d l i v e in y o u r h e a r t ?

10 A. ( B y Ms. Hicks) It w o u l d ' b e h a r d , but

11 if t h a t ' s what d e c i s i o n i s , y e s .

12 Q. Mr. Thomas, t h e s a m e q u e s t i o n , w h o

13 m a k e s u p y o u r community?

14 A. (By Mr. Thomas) Neighbors, church,

15 family.

16 Q. Do you k n o w what t h e i r v i e w s a r e o n

17 the death penalty?

18 A. (By Mr. Thomas) Some family, I guess.

19 M o r e t h a n the r e s t , b u t ....
20 Q. Do y o u k n o w what they a r e ?

21 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I t h i n k t h a t - -

22 Q. For or a g a i n s t t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

23 A. (By M r . T h o m a s ) I think t h e y a r e f o r

24 the death penalty.

25 Q. O k a y . Would t h e i r v i e w s in a n y way

26 a f f e c t y o u r d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g a b i l i t y a s t o the

27 punishment here?

28 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) No.

29 Q. A n d would you b e a b l e o r w o u l d y o u

30 feel comfortable going back to your community

31 if you had to render a verdict of death?

32 A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Yes.
 Q. The same.questions I have asked the

other jurors, is that a decision you could

live with your heart?

A. (By Mr. Thomas) I'm not sure.

Q. W h a t w o u l d g i v e you the i s s u e about

that?

7 A. ( B y M r . Thomas) I j u s t , t h e f a c t t h a t

8 we h a v e to d e c i d e whether o r n o t s o m e o n e

9 d e s e r v e s t o l i v e or die.

10 Q. D o e s a n y b o d y else n e e d t o add

11 a n y t h i n g to t h e i r a n s w e r s b e f o r e I m o v e o n t o

12 the final topics?

13 A. (By M r . Natale) (No response.)

14 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

15 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

16 A. (By Mr. Olague) (No r e s p o n s e . )

17 A. (By Mr. Walker) (No response.)

18 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

19 A. (By M s . Dixon) (No response.)

20 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) . ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

21 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

22 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

23 A. (By Ms. Clay) (No response.)

24 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

25 Q. Ladies and gentlemen, this is my

26 f i n a l topic. T h i s i s the p e n a l t y p h a s e . I'm

27 m o v i n g ahead. K e e p in m i n d o u r f l o w c h a r t .

28 In jury s e l e c t i o n , g u i l t p h a s e , p u t t i n g t h e

29 c a r t b e f o r e the horse, I ' m now m o v i n g a h e a d a s

30 if we h a v e s e c u r e d a c o n v i c t i o n in t h i s c a s e ,

31 a n d we w e r e in the p e n a l t y p h a s e , o u r
c

32 s e n t e n c i n g hearing f o c u s , t h i s i s w h e r e

120
5836
I 1 a d d i t i o n a l e v i d e n c e can b e c o n s i d e r e d f o r the

2 jury to make a determination of what is the

3 a p p r o p r i a t e s e n t e n c e in t h i s s p e c i f i c case.

The sentencing hearing will focus on

circumstances of the offense, the character
a n d p r o p e n s i t i e s o f the o f f e n d e r a n d t h e
I
7 i m p a c t o f the m u r d e r o n t h e f a m i l y o f t h e

8 victim.

9 When I say "circumstances of the

10 o f f e n s e , " M s . C l a y , what c o m e s t o y o u r m i n d ?

11 W h e n I s a y you c a n h e a r a d d i t i o n a l e v i d e n c e - -

12 A. ( B y Ms. Clay) L i k e j u s t a n y t h i n g e l s e

13 that could have caused the thing t o have

14 happened. I don't know.

15 Q. You a r e on the r i g h t p a t h . I t ' s a

16 c o m m o n s e n s e a p p r o a c h t o what h a p p e n e d in t h e

17 case.

18 Do you agree with t h a t ,

19 Mr. J e f f e r s o n ?

20 A. (By Mr. Jefferson) Yes.

21 Q. How d i d the m u r d e r o c c u r ? What did

22 they d o ?

23 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

24 Q. Okay. When I talk about the

25 " c h a r a c t e r and p r o p e n s i t i e s of the offender,''

26 Ms. T h o r n t o n , what c o m e s t o y o u r m i n d ?

27 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

28 Q. I f t h a t ' s going t o b e a f o c u s in t h e

29 penalty phase.

30 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) W e l l , I d o n ' t k n o w

31 really. I d o n ' t know.

32 Q. Do you want a l i f e line?

121
5537
 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

Q. Mr. N a t a l e , what w o u l d b e t h e

focus - -

A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Well, from m y

experience that's when the defense puts people

o n t h e s t a n d , t a l k i n g a b o u t the d e f e n d a n t ,

what, i f a n y , kind o f u p s t a n d i n g

c h a r a c t e r i s t i c s he may have, what h e h a s d o n e

in t h e c o m m u n i t y , t h o s e s o r t of t h i n g s , t h e

pro side of the individual, so to speak.

Q. C o u l d there a c o n s i d e p r e s e n t e d ?

A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) P r o b a b l y n o t by t h e

d e f e n s e , but certainly b y the p r o s e c u t i o n .

Q. Do y o u a g r e e w i t h t h a t , Mr. W a l t e r s ?
A. ( B y M r . Walters) Y e s .

Q. Do you s e e where b o t h a r g u m e n t s c o u l d

b e m a d e a s t o a s the charact'er and

p r o p e n s i t i e s o f the o f f e n d e r ?

A. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes.

Q. Whether or not they're a first time

I

o f f e n d e r a n d a multitude of d e f e n s e s , w h e t h e r

they were a g o o d person in t h e c o m m u n i t y ,

there's all types of evidence that could be

considered.

Do you agree with t h a t , Ms. D i x o n ?

A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

Q. M s . D i x o n , when I t a l k a b o u t t h e

i m p a c t o f t h e m u r d e r o n the f a m i l y o f t h e

victim, what c o m e s t o y o u r m i n d w h e n I s t a t e

that?

A. (By Ms. Dixon) It speaks for the

victim.
 I .

0 .._+

Q. If I were to state, could you explain

what you think that type of evidence may b e or

what considerations the jury w,ould take into

effect as to the impact of the murder on the

family o f the victim?

A. (By Ms. Dixon) I think in every case,

it impacts. I mean, it would affect family

members, all family members the same. 'I d o n ' t

think there i s any light' - - I don't think it

x o u l d be taken lightly.
Q. Sure. Absolutely. Would you agree
with me if I say, you know, you can put family

members on t o discuss the ripple effect, as we

like to call it, that this murder might cause?

A. ( B y Ms. Dixon) (No r e s p o n s e . )

Q. As I have indicated, a l l life i s

precious, don't get me wrong, but, you know,

some individuals may have a bigger ripple

effect as far as their death than others.

Now, I would be comfortable to argue n o matter

what, even if the individual who had n o family

members that was killed, his life i s precious,

but as to that argument as to the rippling

effect, do you see what I'm saying there?

A. (By M s . Dixon) ( N o response.)

Q. Are as far as he left brothers and

sisters behind, children behind, what i s the

effect on them, it could be a big ripple

effect. Would you agree or disagree with

that?

A. (By Ms. Dixon) Agree.

Q. Okay. And how d o you feel about
 --
,

that, Ms. Hicks?

A. ( B y M s . Hicks) Yes.

Q. Mr. Thomas, d o y o u s e e h o w t h a t w o r k s

~ in the p e n a l t y phase?

5 A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) C e r t a i n l y , yes..

6 Q. W h e n w e ' r e in the p e n a l t y p h a s e , the

I

I 7 j u r y h a s t o l o o k a t the m i t i g a t i n g
\

8 c i r c u m s t a n c e in r e f e r e n c e t o w h e t h e r a d e a t h

9 p e n a l t y i s imposed. When we t a l k a b o u t a n

10 aggravating circumstance, there are several,

11 b u t i n t h i s c a s e , we o n l y n e e d t o p r o v e o n e

12 f o r the jury t o return a verdict o f d e a t h . In

13 o t h e r words, i f the jury d e c i d e s t h e d e a t h

14 p e n a l t y is t h e a p p r o p r i a t e punishment', t h e y

15 c a n c o m e b a c k and state t h a t in i m p o s i n g t h e

16 d e a t h p e n a l t y , we f i n d the a g g r a v a t i n g

17 c i r c u m s t a n c e t h a t the d e f e n d a n t t r i e d t o k i l l

18 m o r e t h a n o n e victim, or t h e y c a n f i n d a l l
/

19 t h r e e o f the aggravating c i r c u m s t a n c e s . Does

20 everyone understand how that would work in

21 r e f e r e n c e t o 1 o o k i n g . a t the S t a t e ' s

22 a g g r a v a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e in o r d e r f o r t h e jury

23 t o d e t e r m i n e d o we i m p o s e t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y

24 h e r e a n d t h a t ' s the a g g r a v a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e

25 t h a t we f i n d ? Any q u e s t i o n s on t h i s f i r s t

26 row?

27 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

28 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

29 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( N o response.)

30 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) (No r e s p o n s e . )
31 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

32 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o response.)
 Q. No o n e i s i n d i c a t i n g .

H o w a b o u t on the s e c o n d r o w ?

A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) ( N o response.)

4 A. (By Mr. Walters) (No response.)

5 A. ( B y Ms. Snelling) (No response.)

6 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) (No response.)

7 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

8 Q. N o one i s indicating.

9 Mr. Thomas.
10 A. (By M r . T h o m a s ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

11 Q. N o w , mitigating f a c t o r s , a n d t h i s i s

12 where i t c o m e s c r u n c h t i m e a s f a r a s j u r o r s

13 w h o c a n k e e p an o p e n m i n d a s t o a l l t h e

14 evidence. The l a w requires that a juror in

15 t h e p e n a l t y phase c o n s i d e r t h e m i t i g a t i n g

16 f a c t o r s , b u t then the j u r o r d e c i d e s t h e p r o p e r

17 weight to give to those mitigating factors.

18 A n d t h e n the j u r o r d e c i d e s the p e n a l t y b a s e d

19 on a l l t h e e v i d e n c e .
20 Now, with t h i s , Ms. D i x o n , wou,ld you

21 a g r e e w i t h m e t h a t t h i s i s a g e n e r a l r u l e of

22 l a w f o r a l l c a s e s in L o u i s i a n a ?

23 A. (By M s . Dixon) Y e s .

24 Q. In o t h e r words, they d o n ' t g i v e

25 fact.ors, l i k e i n t h i s c a s e , y o u c a n o n l y

26 consider this mitigating factor. This is a

27 general rule for all cases. Do you see how

28 that works?

29 A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) ( N o response.)

30 Q. Am I confusing you?

31 A. (By M s . Dixon). Yes.

32 Q. Okay. T h e s e r u l e s t h a t t h e y s e t u p a s

125
588k
 '.
v
0
far as the mitigating factors that the jury

can consider, there's probably a prosecutor in

B a t o n R o u g e right n o w t e l l i n g t h e s a m e t h i n g

I'm telling to a j u r y down t h e r e i n r e f e r e n c e

t o w h a t t h e y c o n s i d e r , what f a c t o r s t h e y ' v e
got to consider. These are catchall rules for

a n y t y p e o f c a s e b e c a u s e the l a w c a n ' t

e n v i s i o n , well, I d o n ' t k n o w what m u r d e r t h e y

are g o i n g t o b e d e a l i n g with. Do y o u a g r e e

10 with m e t h a t a l l c a s e s a r e d i f f e r e n t ?

11 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

12 Q. Mr. T h o m a s , the f a c t s a n d e v i d e n c e

13 t h a t a p r o s e c u t o r may p r e s e n t in B a t o n R o u g e

14 may b e d i f f e r e n t f r o m what I'm p r e s e n t i n g

15 here.

16 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Sure.

17 Q. O k a y . M s . Hicks, the m i t i g a t i n g

18 f a c t o r s t h a t may b e p r e s e n t e d by t h e d e f e n s e

19 l a w y e r in Baton Rouge may b e d i f f e r e n t f r o m

20 w h a t we s e e here, so we h a v e t h e s e g e n e r a l

21 r u l e s . D o y o u s e e how t h a t works?

22 A. (By M s . H i c k s ) Yes.

23 Q. Now, w h e n we t a l k a b o u t m i t i g a t i n g

24 f a c t o r s , I ' m g o i n g to p u t an i n c l u s i v e l i s t

25 here. A t t h e e n d o f this l i s t , t h o u g h ,

26 t h e r e ' s g o i n g t o b e a c a t c h a l l p h r a s e of " a n y

27 a n d a l l r e l e v a n t mitigating e v i d e n c e " t h a t c a n

28 b e d e t e r m i n e d by t h e j u r y .

29 When we t a l k a b o u t mitigating

30 f a c t o r s , I ' m going t o r u n t h r o u g h t h e s e h e r e .

31 T h e d e f e n d e r h a s n o s i g n i f i c a n t p r i o r history

32 of criminal activity.
 1 A n d this i s a n easy o n e , Mr. O l a g u e ,

2 i n a n u t s h e l l , a s far a s the m i t i g a t i n g

i 3 f a c t o r , i f the d e f e n d a n t c o m e s in a n d h e w a s

4 e i g h t e e n a t the t i m e o f the o f f e n s e a n d n e v e r

5 c o m m i t t e d a crime, d o y o u s e e how t h a t m i g h t
6 be a mitigating factor?

7 A. (By Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.

8 Q. Now, M r . Walker, h e r e ' s t h e c a t c h o n

9 t h i s , d o e s mitigation m e a n s an e x c u s e ?

10 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I d o n ' t know.

11 I Q. Mr. Jefferson.

12 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) No.

13 Q. No. A s far a s m i t i g a t i o n , t h a t

14

15
I d o e s n ' t mean i t ' s an e x c u s e t h a t , y o u k n o w , I

shouldn't be guilty of t h i s c r i m e . When I say

16 i t ' s a m i t i g a t i n g factor, Mr. T h o m a s , w h a t

17 d o e s t h a t mean t o y o u ?

18 A. (By Mr. Thomas) (No response.)

19 Q. Mitigation.

20 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I ' m n o t s u r e , b u t I

21 w o u l d b e thinking t h a t it i s t h e s e v e r i t y o f

22 the punishment.

23 Q. Right. If I was to have a thermometer

24 h e r e , y o u h a v e an a g g r a v a t i o n t h a t m a y b e r i s e s

25 the thermometer - -

26 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) R i g h t .

27 Q. - - and a mitigation factor might

28 lower it down. It doesn't excuse the crime,

29 but i t might i n c r e a s e i t , or i t m i g h t d e c r e a s e

30 i t , d e p e n d i n g on h o w much w e i g h t t h e

31 gives.

32 Do you a g r e e with t h a t , M s . T h o r n t o n ?

127
 Q. W e l l , as I keep going o n , t h e o f f e n s e

was c o m m i t t e d w h i l e the o f f e n d e r ' w a s u n d e r t h e

influence of'extreme mental or emotional

disturbance. T h e o f f e n s e was c o m m i t t e d w h i l e

t h e o f f e n d e r w a s under the i n f l u e n c e o r u n d e r

the d o m i n a t i o n o f another person.

W h a t d o e s t h a t mean to y o u ,

9 Mr. Walker?

10 A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) (No response.)

11 Q. The offender - - the o f f e n s e w a s

12

13
c o m m i t t e d while the o f f e n d e r w a s u n d e r t h e

i n f l u e n c e or under the domination of a n o t h e r

I
14 person.

15 A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) T h e c i r c u m s t a n c e t h a t

16 could have been out of his control.

17 Q. Sure. Did you e v e r h e a r a b o u t t h e D C

18 sniper case?

19 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. I
20 Q. Are y o u familiar w i t h t h a t c a s e ,

2 1 Mr. Jefferson?

22 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

23 Q. W h o w a s the r i n g l e a d e r in t h a t c a s e ?

24 A. ( B y M r . Jefferson) T h e a d u l t b e c a u s e

25 t h e c h i l d d i d n ' t really k n o w what. w a s g o i n g

26

27

28

29
o f f e n d e r c o m e s t o court, i s h e u n d e r t h e

d o m i n a t i o n o f the father?
I
30 A. (By Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

31 Q. D o you s e e h o w t h a t c o u l d b e a

32 m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r in h i s s e n t e n c i n g h e r e ?
 -. .-.

1 A. (By Mr. Jefferson) Yes.

2 Q. T h e o f f e n s e was c o m m i t t e d under

' 3 circumstances which the offender reasonably

4 b e l i e v e d t o p r o v i d e a moral j u s t i f i c a t i o n or

5 e x t e n u a t i o n for h i s c o n d u c t . What does that

6 m e a n t o y o u , Mr. Walters.

7 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) T h a t s o m e h o w h e

8 b e l i e v e d t h a t - - o r h e or s h e - - by t a k i n g o r

9 c o m m i t t i n g a m u r d e r t h a t i t was d o n e f o r th,e

10 betterment of him or his society.

11 Q. S u r e . D i d a n y o n e e v e r see that movie

12 the " S e v e n t h S e a l " o r " S e v e n t h S i g n " b a c k in

13 the OS?

14 A. (By M r . Natale) (No r e s p o n s e . )

15 A. (By M s . Thornton) ( N o response.)

16 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

17 A. (By Mr. Olague) (No r e s p o n s e . )

18 A. ( B y Mr. Walker) ( N o response..)

19 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o response.)

20 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

21 A. ( B y Mr. Walters) ( N o response.)

22 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

23 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

24 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) (No response.)

25 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

26 Q. No o n e i s f a m i l i a r w i t h t h a t m o v i e ?

27 Wow. I c a n ' t b e l i e v e that.

28 O k a y . In t h a t m o v i e , t h e r e w a s a m a n

29 who killed his parents because he believed it

30 was b a s e d o n the w o r d of G o d . In h i s m i n d , h e

31 h a d a m o r a l justification f o r t h a t .

32 Ms. T h o r n t o n , in t h a t s c e n a r i o , w o u l d

129
 1 ~ he still have committed a crime?

2 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Um- hum.

3 Q. Yes. But in t h a t s e n s e t o w h e r e t h e

4 jury f o u n d t h a t t h i s w a s an e i g h t e e n - y e a r - o l d ,
5 i m p r e s s i o n a b l e man who d i d n ' t k n o w o r h e

6 d i d n ' t h a v e the mental f a c u l t i e s t o u n d e r s t a n d

7 o r a p p r e c i a t e h i s crime. A n d in t h a t s e n s e , h e

8 b e l i e v e d t h a t h e was m o r a l l y j u s t i f i e d in

'9 killing h i s parents. Could that be a

10 mitigating factor that the jury could

11 consider?

12 A. (By Ms. Thornton) (No response.)

13 Q. N O W , a t t h e e n d o f the d a y , t h e y may

14 not give t h a t any w e i g h t , b u t t h e y m u s t

15 consider it. D o you see h o w t h a t w o r k s ?

16 A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

17 Q. O k a y . I'm c o n t i n u i n g w i t h t h e

18 m i t i g a t i n g fact0r.s. And, ladies and

19 g e n t l e m e n , b e a r with me. I know t h i s , p a r t can

20 be tedious, but this is the most important

21 p a r t in r e f e r e n c e to a j u r o r b e i n g f a i r a n d

22 o p e n - m i n d e d as t o both p e n a l t i e s in t h e

23 penalty phase.

24 A t the time o f t h e o f f e n s e , t h e

25 c a p a c i t y o f the o f f e n d e r t o a p p r e c i a t e t h e

26 criminality of his conduct or to conform his

27 c o n d u c t t o t h e r e q u i r e m e n t s of l a w w a s

28 i m p a i r e d a s a result o f m e n t a l d i s e a s e o r

29 d e f e c t or intoxication.

30 Ms. Clay, what d o e s t h a t m e a n t o y o u ?

31 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) T h a t t h e r e w a s

32 s o m e t h i n g w r o n g with them m e n t a l l y a n d t h e y
 1 w e r e d r u g g e d a n d they went t o d o s o m e t h i n g

I 2 t h a t t h e y d i d n ' t k n o w wasn't right.

3 Q. O k a y . Now, k e e p in m i n d w h e n w e t a l k

4 about mental disease or defect, we're not

5 t a l k i n g a b o u t insanity o r t h e l e g a l

6 requirement of insanity. If s o m e o n e i s

7 insane, they would be found not guilty. We're

8 p a s t t h a t point.

9 N o w , a mental d i s e a s e c o u l d b e

10 alcoholism. It could be a personality

11 disorder, bi-polar, something to that effect.

12 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yeah.

13 Q. I n t o x i c a t i o n , Mr. J e f f e r s o n , c o u l d

14 that be a situation w h e r e someone t a k e s his

15 medicines and he's intoxicated.

16 A. ( B y Mr. Jefferson) Yes.

17 Q. And then h e c o m m i t s a c r i m e .

18 A. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

19 Q. To that extent, would that be a

20 m i t i g a t i n g factor t h a t t h e j u r y c o u l d

21 consider?

22 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) N o .

23 Q. Why n o t ?

24 A. (By Mr. Jefferson) You're saying if

25 h e h a d d r u g s and h e s h o u l d n ' t b e o n t h e d r u g s

26 in the first place, then I don't think that

27 should be considered if it's not - - that

28 really doesn't have anything to do with that

29 c a s e , b e c a u s e . . . hum. That's hard. That's

30 hard.

31 Q. O k a y . T h i s i s why I d o t h i s n o w . N o w ,
32 I k e e p in mind, I k n o w s o m e j u r o r s c a n s o m e t i m e s

131
5847
 1 h a v e a k n e e - j e r k r e a c t i o n , well, y o u k n o w , if

2 you're drunk, I don't care about that, I'm not

g o i n g t o e x c u s e you f o r the c r i m e . And that's

n o t what w e ' r e s a y i n g h e r e .

A. ( B y Mr. Jefferson) O k a y .

6 Q. D o you s e e h o w - - you d o n ' t k n o w what

7 t h e e v i d e n c e is g o i n g t o present.

8 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) E x a c t l y .

9 Q. Do y o u s e e w h e r e y o u w o u l d s t i l l h a v e

10 t o c o n s i d e r the f a c t o r ? A t the e n d o f t h e

11 d a y , a f t e r y o u h e a r a l l the e v i d e n c e , y o u may

12 say, well, I don't give that a whole lot of

13 weight. Or i f you hear a s c e n a r i o w h e r e ,

14 okay, I'm going to give that a lot of weight

15 because he mixed his medicines together and

16 didn't realize that that would make him

17 i n t o x i c a t e d o r i m p a i r e d , d o you s e e h o w t h e r e

18 could be a difference?

19 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

20 Q. Do you s e e where t'he j u r o r s s h o u l d n ' t

21 e x c l u d e t h e mitigating f a c t o r s b e f o r e t h e y

22 hear the evidence?

23 A. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

24 Q. Okay. The youth of the offender at

25 t h e t i m e of the offense. That speaks for

26 itself.

27 B u t t o t h a t e x t e n t , M r . T h o m a s , what

20 d o you t h i n k o f ?

29 A. (By Mr. Thomas) They're just a child.

30 Q. Whether they're a young man or - -

31 A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) O r s o m e b o d y w h o may

32 n o t u n d e r s t a n d the severity o f t h e i r a c t i o n s .

132
5848
 A. ( B y Ms. Thornton) Yes.

Q. O k a y . The o f f e n d e r was a p r i n c i p a l

w h o s e p a r t i c i p a t i o n was r e l a t i v e l y m i n o r .

Ms. Hicks, what d o e s t h a t m e a n t o

you?

A. ( B y M s . Hicks) I d o n ' t u n d e r s t a n d .

Q. Do you k n o w what a p r i n c i p a l i s ?

A. (By Ms'. H i c k s ) No.

Q. O k a y . A principal is someone w h o i s
c o n c e r n e d in the c o m m i s s i o n o f a c r i m e . They

may n o t a c t u a l l y b e the t r i g g e r m a n . So i n

o t h e r words, if m y b u d d y and I d e c i d e to go

r o b t h e b a n k , and I s a y o k a y , y o u ' r e g o i n g t o

s p l i t t h e p r o c e e d s with m e , but I ' m going t o

b e t h e getaway d r i v e r , a n d I ' m g o i n g to l o o k

o u t for y o u , you g o in t h a t b a n k , a n d y o u

better kill that teller while you're at it.

So h e g o e s in the b a n k a n d k i l l s t h e t e l l e r

a n d c o m e s o u t a n d s p l i t s the m o n e y w i t h m e a n d
we l e a v e ; am I g u i l t y o f m u r d e r ?

A. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) I w o u l d s a y so.

Q. Absolutely. Am I the t r i g g e r m a n in

that case?

A. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) No.

Q. No. But, Ms. C l a y , a m I s t i l l

guilty?

A. ( B y M s . C l a y ) Yes.

Q. As a p r i n c i p a l ?

A. ( B y M s . C l a y ) ( J u r o r n o d s head.)

Q. Am I c o n c e r n e d in t h e c o m m i s s i o n of

that crime?

A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.
 1 Q. So d o you see how that w o u l d work as
2 f a r a s p r i n c i p a l s versus the o f f e n d e r w h o d o e s

3 the shooting? Now, in t h a t s i t u a t i o n , i f I

4 came into court, I have no criminal record and

5 I ' m t h e getaway d r i v e r , i s t h a t a f a c t o r t h a t

6 the jury maybe c o u l d l o o k at to s a y , well, he

7 wasn't the s h o o t e r , he was the g e t a w a y driver,

8 so y o u k n o w , t h a t m i g h t m i t i g a t e i n h i s f a v o r .

9 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

10 Q. B u t at the e n d o f t h e d a y , y o u may

11 say, well, he was going t o s p l i t t h e p r o c e e d s ,

12 I ' m n o t g i v i n g t h a t any w e i g h t . Do y o u s e e

13 h o w t h a t c a n work though in a p e n a l t y p h a s e ?

14 . A. (By Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

15 Q. O k a y . Finally, here's the catchall,

16 any other relevant mitigating circumstances.

17 N o w , M r . Natale, why d o y o u t h i n k t h e

18 l a w p u t t h a t c a t c h a l l p h r a s e in t h e r e ?

19 A. (By Mr. Natale) I don't know.

20 Q. M s . T h o r n t o n , why d o y o u t h i n k t h e

21 l a w p u t t h a t l a s t phrase in t h e r e ?

22 A. (By M , s . Thornton) (No response.)

23 Q. C o u l d there b e s o m e c i r c u m s t a n c e s o u t

24 t h e r e t h a t they h a v e n ' t e n v i s i o n e d ?

25 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes, t h e r e c o u l d

26 be.

27 Q. I m e a n , there c o u l d b e s o m e t h i n g i n

28 the c a s e t h a t h e ' s n o t a r g u e d t o t h e j u r y , b u t

29 t h e law s a y s , hey, I c a u g h t t h i s in t h e c a s e

30 and I think that's a mitigating factor, do you

31 s e e h o w t h a t w o u l d work?

32 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.
 :
D F

1 Q. Mr. Natale, does that - - ffl

69
2 A. (By Mr. N a t a l e ) Y e s , b a s e d s o l e l y o n (@I

~
J I .m

~
3 t h e o p i n i o n o f the juror.
r3
4 Q. So the j u r o r c o u l d s a y , w e l l , y o u 43
Llhl

know, I c a u g h t t h i s . It wasn't a r g u e d by h)
c3
63 I
e i t h e r o f t h e p a r t i e s , but I s a w t h i s in the CICh

c a s e , a n d t h a t ' s what I'm g o i n g t o b a s e m y

d e c i s i o n o n . O r , I g i v e t h a t , you k n o w , a l o t

o f w e i g h t a s a m i t i g a t i n g factor. So i t ' s a

10
~

catchall phrase.

11 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Right. ~

12 Q. Mr. T h o m a s , c o u l d t h e d e f e n s e l a w y e r

13 c o m e t o the jury a n d n o t p r e s e n t a n y

14 m i t i g a t i n g factors a n d b a s i c a l l y j u s t a s k t h e

15 j u r y for mercy?

16 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.

17 Q. Yes, they c a n . Yes. They don't have

~

18 t o p r e s e n t any mitigating f a c t o r s . They could

19 s t r i c t l y c o m e t o the jury a n d a s k f o r m e r c y . I

20 Do you s e e h o w t h a t would work?

21 A. ( B y M r . Thomas) Yes.

22 Q. W o u l d t h a t fall under any o t h e r

23 r e l e v a n t m i t i g a t i n g circumstance?

24 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.

25 Q. M r . N a t a l e , I'm g o i n g t o s t a r t w i t h

26 you n o w , n o w t h a t I h a v e got the s e t u p f o r t h e

27 p e n a l t y p h a s e a n d what the j u r o r s t h a t s e r v e

28 o n t h e s e c a s e s must d o in o r d e r t o q u a l i f y in

29 c e r t a i n of t h e s e cases. In r e f e r e n c e t o

30 mitigating factors, are there any factors up

31 t h e r e t h a t you w o u l d j u s t a u t o m a t i c a l l y

32 exclude and not even consider?

d

136
 A. (By M r . Natale) T h e youth of the

2 offender.

3 Q, Okay. When I s t a t e - - w h e n y o u s t a t e

4 the "youth of the offender," w o u l d y o u be a b l e

5 t o consider t h a t i n the penalty phase before

6 you hear the evidence, or w o u l d you j u s t

7 automatically exclude it and write it o f f ?

8 A. (By M r . Natale) Before h e a r i n g t h e

9 evidence?

10 Q. Yes.

11 A. (By M r . N a t a l e ) I would have to hear

12 the evidence first, b u t j u s t based s o l e l y on

13 t h e age of the offender, no, I wouldn't. It's

14 based on law, i f t h e y ' r e s e v e n t e e n o r a b o v e .

15 Q. Okay.

16 A. (By M r . Natale) O r i f you a r e t r i e d

17 as an a d u l t , it a p p l i e s t o youth.

18 Q. Now, l e t m e see i f I can c l a r i f y t h a t

19 as f a r as it applying t o youth. Now, at the

20 end of t h e ' e v i d e n c e , , . y o u may g i v e i t a l o t of

21 weight. You may n o t g i v e i t a l o t w e i g h t .

22 You may h e a r t h e e v i d e n c e i n t h i s c a s e a n d

23 state, well, i t n o r m a l l y d o e s n ' t mean a l o t t o

24 m e as f a r a s t h e youth of the offender, but in

25 this case, I think it's applicable. I think,

26 you know, I s h o u l d g i v e i t some w e i g h t . Do you

27 feel t h a t you c o u l d k e e p a n o p e n mind g o i n g

28 i n t o the penalty phase as t o those f a c t o r s ?

29 A. (By M r . Natale) Probably not.

30 Q. C o u l d y'ou t e l l m e w h y .
<
3 1 A. (By M r . Natale) Just, again, I mean,

32 you know, i f you're of l e g a l age a n d you

137

5553
 0
~ c o m m i t t h e c r i m e , I think t h a t i n i t s e l f i s - -

I m e a n , i t ' s hard t o e x p l a i n , b u t j u s t b e c a u s e

they're a certain age and they c o m m i t a c r i m e ,

4 I c o u l d u n d e r s t a n d i f they were, y o u k n o w , a

5 child or something along those lines and

6 p o s s i b l y so, b u t n o t j u s t by g o i n g w i t h w h a t

7 t h e s t a t e l a w s a y s , you k n o w , w h a t c o n s t i t u t e s

8 s o m e b o d y as an adult, a n d t h i s p a r t i c u l a r l a w

9 would a p p l y , t o o .
10 Q. Okay. So you w o u l d n ' t b e a b l e t o

11 c o n s i d e r t h a t factor a t a l l ?

12 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) No.

13 Q. Okay. Any o t h e r f a c t o r s t h a t y o u

14 wouldn't be able to consider?

15 A. ( B y Mr. Natale) No. J u s t t h a t one.

16 Q. Do you f e e l t h a t you w o u l d n ' t b e a b l e

17 t o s e r v e o n this jury based on that?

18 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

19 Q. Mr. T h o m a s , are t h e r e a n y f a c t o r s

20 t h a t you w o u l d j u s t a u t o m a t i c a l l y e x c l u d e , o r

21 w o u l d y o u a b l e to c o n s i d e r a l l the f a c t o r s a n d

22 g i v e them t h e i r a p p r o p r i a t e w e i g h t ?

23 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I think I would be

24 a b l e t o c o n s i d e r a l l the. f a c t o r s .

25 Q. And do you feel that you would be a

26 j u r o r t h a t c o u l d g i v e it i t s a p p r o p r i a t e

27 weight after you've consider whatever is

28 presented to you?

29 A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Yes.

30 Q. A t the e n d of the d a y , e v e n i f y o u

31 have found someone guilty of first degree

32 murder and the defense doesn't put any factors

138
5854
 ...-..

1 on, they just ask for mercy, d o you s t i l l feel

2 you c o u l d b e a juror that would s e r i o u s l y

3 consider b o t h penalty options before y o u make

4 a final 'decision?

5 A. ( B y Mr. Thomas) Yes.

6 Q. And d o you feel strongly t h a t ?

7 A. (By Mr. Thomas) Yes.

8 Q. Ms. Thornton, are there a n y factors

9 that you would automatically exclude, or would

10 you be a b l e to consider all the factors a n d

11 give them their appropriate weight?

12 A. (By Ms. Thornton) I feel l i k e I c o u l d

13 consider all o f them.

14 Q. Okay.

15 A. (By Ms. Thornton) And t h e n d e c i d e .

16 Q. Decide their appropriate w e i g h t ?

17 A. (By Ms. Thornton) Um-hum.

18 Q. And even if the d e f e n s e . d o e s n ' t

19 p r e s e n t any mitigating factors, they just

20 simply a s k f o r mercy, would you s t i l l b e a

21 juror t h a t ' c o u l d consider and i m p o s e b o t h

22 sentences at the end of the e v i d e n c e ?

23 A. (By M s . Thornton) (No response.)

24 Q. The death penalty o r a l i f e s e n t e n c e ?

25 A. (By Ms. Thornton) I feel l i k e I

26 could.

27 Q. Okay. D o y o u feel strongly a b o u t

28 that?

29 A. (By M s . Thornton) Yes.

30 Q. And you understand what I'm s a y i n g ,

31 that even though the jury has f o u n d t h e

32 defendant guilty o f an intentional h o m i c i d e ,

139
 ..-

,
1 if the defense elects not to put any factors

2 on, and they state, you know, we simply ask

I 3 for mercy, would you still be able to keep an

4 open mind as to both penalties before

5 rendering a decision?

6 A. (By Ms. Thornton) I feel I c o u l d .

7 Q. Do you feel strongly about that?

8 A. (By Ms. Thornton) Yes.

9 Q. Ms. Edwards, once again, I'm not

10 disrespectful. I t h i n k I know y o u r o p i n i o n s
11 on the death penalty.

12 Mr. Olague, the same line of

13 questioning. Are there any factors up there

14 that you would automatically exclude or would

15 you be able to consider all the factors and

16 give them their appropriate weight before you

17 made a decision?

18 A. (By Mr. Olague) I would consider all

19 factors.
20 Q. And in considering all the factors

21 and giving them their appropriate weight, even

22 if the jury finds the defendant guilty of an

23 intentional murder, and the defense c o m e s and

24 offers n o factors, which they d o n ' t have t o if

25 they d o n ' t want to, and they simply come for a

26 plea of mercy, do you still feel like you

27 could b e a juror that would keep b o t h options,

28 serious options, in consideration before you

29 made a decision?

30 A. (By Mr. Olague) No.

31 Q. Could you tell me why.

32 A. (By Mr. Olague) Because the youth, if

 e v i d e n c e h a s been p r e s e n t e d and i t ' s p r o v e n

t h a t h e committed t h e crime, and t h e j u r y has

c o n v i c t e d him, then I would want the death

penalty.

Q. Mr. Walker, are t h e r e any f a c t o r s

6 that you would a u t o m a t i c a l l y exclude?

7 A. (By M r . Walker) I would have t o h e a r

8 all the factors.

9 Q, Okay. Would you be a b l e t o g i v e t h e m

10 a l l t h e i r appropriate weight t h a t you t h i n k

11 they deserve?

12 A. (By M r . Walker) I would give them a l l

13 the appropriate weight. I couldn't make a

14 decision without that.

15 Q. Sure.

16 A. (By M r . Walker) You're talking about

17 t h e mercy part.

18 Q. Would you s t i l l be a b l e t o h e a r t h a t

19 part?

20 A. (By M r . Walker) I could consider

21 mercy, but still without the facts, I can't

22 make a d e f i n i t e d e c i s i o n .

23 Q. Right.

24 A. (By M r . Walker) You c a n g i v e s o m e b o d y

25 mercy, but still you've g o t t o know e v e r y t h i n g

26 that has been done.

27 Q. Okay. Now, t o that extent, i f the

28 defense o f f e r s no f a c t o r s b u t a plea of mercy,

29 would you s t i l l be a j u r o r that could consider

30 a l l t h e evidence and everything t h a t they

31 a r g u e d b e f o r e you make y o u r d e c i s i o n ?

32 A,. (By M r . Walker) Without the evidence,

142
585A
 1 I c o u l d n ' t m a k e a decision.
2 Q. So you f e e l t h a t b o t h p e n a l t y o p t i o n s

3 would still be available?

4 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.
5 Q* Ms. C l a y , the s a m e q u e s t i o n , w o u l d
6 y o u a u t o m a t i c a l l y exclude any m i t i g a t i n g

7 f a c t o r s , or would you be a b l e t o c o n s i d e r a l l

8 the factors?

9 A. (By Ms. C l a y ) I w o u l d b e a b l e t o

10
I c o n s i d e r a l l o f them.

11 Q. W o u l d you b e a b l e t o g i v e t h e m t h e i r

12 a p p r o p r i a t e weight b e f o r e you m a d e a d e c i s i o n ?

13 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

14 Q. N O W , e v e n if the j u r y h a s f o u n d t h e

15

16
I d e f e n d a n t g u i l t y o f an i n t e n t i o n a l m u r d e r ,

robbery, arson, kidnapping, attempting to kill

17 more than one person, to that extent, the

18 defense offers no mitigating factors other

19 than a p l e a of mercy, w o u l d y o u s t i l l b e a b l e

20 to consider and seriously impose either

21 sentence?

22 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

23 Q. Do you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

24 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

25 Q. Mr. Jefferson.

26 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) N o n e t h a t I c a n

27

28
II see.

. Q. N o n e that you c a n see?

29 A. ( B y Mr. Jeffe'rson) R i g h t .

30

31
I Q. As far as the i n t o x i c a t i o n p o r t i o n ,

d o you s t i l l f e e l that you c o u l d c o n s i d e r t h a t

32 one?
 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

Q. Would you be a b l e t o g i v e t h e

a p p r o p r i a t e w e i g h t to t h e s e f a c t o r s w h a t e v e r

you h e a r ?
A. (By M r . Jefferson) Yes.

Q. E v e n i f the jury f i n d s the d e f e n d a n t

g u i l t y o f an i n t e n t i o n a l ' h o m i c i d e w h e r e

s o m e o n e w a s robbed, k i d n a p p e d , an a r s o n i s

9 committed, o r they a t t e m p t t o k i l l m o r e t h a n

10 o n e p e r s o n a n d the jury h a s f o u n d h i m g u i l t y

11 of t h a t c r i m e , the d e f e n s e o f f e r s n o f a c t o r s

12 o t h e r t h a n a plea o f mercy, w o u l d you s t i l l b e

13 able to c o n s i d e r a n d seriously impose a life

14 sentence?
15 A. (By Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Y e s .

16 Q. As to b o t h p e n a l t i e s ?

17 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

18 Q. And you f e e l s u r e a b o u t t h i s ?

19 A. (By Mr. Jefferson) Y e s .

20 Q. Ms. Snelling.

2 1 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) I c o u l d c o n s i d e r

22 the m i t i g a t i n g factors.

23 Q. Okay.

24 A. (By Ms. Snelling) But as far as the

25 m e r c y , t h e victim wasn't given m e r c y , I w o u l d

26 h a v e a h a r d t i m e with that.

27 Q. There is nothing wrong with having a

28 h a r d t i m e with that. I mean, I u n d e r s t a n d - -

29 A. ( B y M s . S n e l l i n g ) I may n o t b e a b l e

30 t o c o n s i d e r it. I mean, y o u ' r e t a l k i n g

31 about - -

32 Q. I a m n o t a s k i n g you t o c o m m i t t o
 Cn

t h a t , b u t d o you s e e what I a m a s k i n g a s f a r

a s w h e t h e r or n o t you c o u l d k e e p a n o p e n m i n d

t o e v e r y t h i n g you h e a r , e v e n i f i t ' s a p l e a o f

m e r c y b e f o r e you make y o u r d e c i s i o n .
I

5 A. ( B y Ms. Snelling) Y e s .

~
6 Q. O k a y . D o you feel t h a t you c o u l d b e a

~ 7 j u r o r t h a t c o u l d k e e p b o t h p e n a l t y o p t i o n s in

8 m i n d u n t i l t h e e n d o f all the e v i d e n c e i s

9 presented?

10 A. ( B y Ms. Snelling) Yes.

~ 11 Q. Mr. Walters.

~ 12 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) By t h e p a r a m e t e r you

13 h a v e s t a t e d , I h a v e a problem w i t h t h e y o u t h

14 of the offender. You s t a t e d e i g h t e e n t o

15 fifty.

16 Q. Okay.

17 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) In m y r e a l m o f

18 r e a l i t y , an eighteen- year- old k n o w s r i g h t a n d

19 wrong, life and death. NOW, had you said

20 e i g h t y e a r s old to fifty - -

21 Q. Right.

22 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) - - I w o u l d c o n s i d e r

23 t h a t a s a m i t i g a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e , b u t an

24 adult who knows the difference of right and

25 wrong, between life and death, that's a

26 mitigating circumstance that I can't consider.

27 Q. Okay. Now, keep.this in mind. I'm

28 s t a t i n g , you k n o w , excuse h i m f o r t h e c r i m e

29 b a s e d o n t h e fact t h a t they a r e y o u n g . As far

30 as t h e c i r c u m s t a n c e s o f a c a s e , a n d w e a r e

31 t a l k i n g in g e n e r a l terms, you d o n ' t k n o w what

32 the circumstances are going to be; would be

 _-

1 t h a t be a f a i r a s s e s s m e n t ?

2 A. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes.

3 Q. S o in o t h e r w o r d s , y o u m i g h t h a v e a n

4 eighteen-year-old who was locked in a b o x

5 e v e r y d a y of h i s l i f e a n d b e a t e n b y h i s f a t h e r

and t h e n on h i s e i g h t e e n t h birthday, his

f a t h e r is l i k e , y o u ' r e a m a n n o w , c o m e w i t h m e

and w e ' r e g o i n g t o r o b a l i q u o r s t o r e . He's

the getaway driver. The father shoots and

10 kills someone and then the son i s in the

11 p e n a l t y phase w i t h h i s f a t h e r . Do you s e e t h a t

12 situation?

13 A. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Y e s . Now, I

14 understand. With those t y p e of p a r a m e t e r s ,

15 yes, but that would have to be a circumstance

16 that I would consider. .

17 Q. Do you see at that point where the

18 jury would have t o consider that age, perhaps?

19 A. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes.

20 Q. Now, at the end of the d a y , you

21 might, as a juror say, well, even with those

\

22 circumstances, even though he's a young man, I

23 don't give it a lot of weight or I give i t a

24 lot of weight. That's a decision a juror must

25 m a k e . Do y o u s e e h o w t h a t w o r k s ?

26 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Y o u h a v e o p e n e d my

27 mind.

28 Q. Okay. G o o d , g o o d . To t h a t e x t e n t ,

29 would you able to consider any and all

30 mitigating factors as a juror in this case and

31 ' assigning them their appropriate weight?

32 A. (By Mr. Walters) I could consider all

 1 t h o s e c i r c u m s t a n c e s , yes.

2 Q. Now, t o t h a t e x t e n t , w o u l d y o u b e

3 a b l e t o a l s o weigh a n d g i v e t h e m t h e

4 a p p r o p r i a t e weight t h a t y o u t h i n k t h e y h)
ca I
5 deserve ?

6 A. (By M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes.

7 Q. To t h a t e x t e n t , a s I h a v e i n d i c a t e d

8 t o y o u r f e l l o w jurors, e v e n i f t h e j u r y

9 c o n v i c t s t h e d e f e n d a n t o f an i n t e n t i o n a l

10 h o m i c i d e where h e c o m m i t t e d a r o b b e r y , a r s o n ,

11 kidnapping, attempted to kill more than one

12 p e r s o n , the d e f e n s e d o e s n ' t o f f e r a n y

13 m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s o t h e r than a p l e a o f m e r c y

14 which f a l l s under t h a t l a s t p o r t i o n , w o u l d y o u

15 s t i l l b e a b l e t o keep both p e n a l t y o p t i o n s on

16 t h e t a b l e t i l l you h e a r d a l l t h e e v i d e n c e and
17 a r g u m e n t s b e f o r e you make y o u r f i n a l d e c i s i o n ?

18 A. (By M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes, I c o u l d .

19 Q. W o u l d you, a s a p o t e n t i a l j u r o r , b e

20 a b l e t o i m p o s e a life s e n t e n c e e v e n i n t h a t

21 situation?

22 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Yes.

23 Q. D o you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

24 A. (By M r . Walters) Yes.

25 Q. O k a y . T h a n k you, M r . W a l t e r s .

26 Ms. D i x o n , i s there any m i t i g a t i n g

27 f a c t o r s t h a t you w o u l d a u t o m a t i c a l l y e x c l u d e ?

28 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) N o .

29 Q. W o u l d you b e a b l e t o c o n s i d e r a l l t h e

30 m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s a n d weigh them

31 appropriately?

32 A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes.

147
5863
 c
- . .-
, 'i.
. j

Q. Now, t o t h a t e x t e n t , t h e j u r y f i n d s

the defendant guilty of an intentional

homicide committed during a robbery, arson, or

kidnapping, t o t h a t e x t e n t and t h e d e f e n s e
o f f e r s n o mitigating f a c t o r s , o n l y a p l e a of

6 mercy, would you be able to still seriously

7 consider and impose both sentences?

8 A. ( B y Ms. Dixon) Yes.

9 Q. Do you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?
10 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

11 Q. Ms. Hicks, i s t h e r e a n y m i t i g a t i n g

12 f a c t o r s you w o u l d a u t o m a t i c a l l y e x c l u d e ?

13 A. (By Ms. Hicks) No.

1 4 Q. To t h a t e x t e n t , w o u l d y o u b e a b l e t o

15 c o n s i d e r b o t h penalty o p t i o n s , n o m a t t e r what

16 y o u h e a r in the penalty p h a s e ?

17 A. ( B y Ms. Hicks) Yes.

18 Q. E v e n i f the d e f e n s e o f f e r s no f a c t o r s

19 o t h e r t h a n a plea o f l i f e a n d t h e j u r y h a s

20 c o n v i c t e d the d e f e n d a n t of an i n t e n t i o n a l

2 1 homicide where he committed a robbery,

22 k i d n a p p i n g , arson or a t t e m p t e d t o k i l l m o r e

23 than one person.

24 A. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) Yes.

25 Q. W o u l d you s t i l l b e a b l e t o c o n s i d e r

26 and impose both options?

27 A. ( B y M s . ' H i c k s ) Yes.

28 Q. Do you feel, s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

29 A. ( B y Ms. Hicks) Yes.

30 Q. M r . T h o m a s , s a m e question.

31 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I think I a l r e a d y

32 answered.
 ,-.,

I
1 Q. You s u r e did. Being over here with

2 y o u r o w n row, I a p o l o g i z e .

3 Mr. N a t a l e , l e t me c o m e b a c k t o you

4 b e f o r e I move o f f this s u b j e c t , a n d I h o p e m y

5 question didn't confuse it. The way I

6 e x p l a i n e d t o Mr. Walters, d o e s t h a t g i v e y o u

7 a n y r o o m for r e c o n s i d e r a t i o n ?

a A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yeah, e s p e c i a l l y

10
this gentleman b a c k there when h e w a s i t a l k i n g

a b o u t a s e t a g e eighteen t o f i f t y , and t h e n
I
11 w h e n you b r i n g up the s c e n a r i o a b o u t b e i n g in

12 a b o x a n d b e a t e n by h i s f a t h e r , t h a t , y e a h , I

13 could consider that and look at those

14 circumstances, b u t if it was j u s t blatant, 'I

15 mean, depending upon the person's age, I
I
16 guess, again, it would have a lot to do with

17 w h a t the e v i d e n c e i s a n d w h a t ' s p r e s e n t e d . I

ia m e a n , i f it was j u s t s o m e b o d y w h o j u s t , y o u

19 k n o w , h a d , y o u k n o w , d i s r e g a r d for l i f e a n d i t

20 is reinforced by evidence, no matter what

21 t h e i r a g e , I wouldn't c o n s i d e r t h e i r a g e a s

22 f a r a s t h e penalty p h a s e .

23 Q. Okay. As f a r as g o i n g i n t o t h e

24 p e n a l t y p h a s e , a s I h a v e o u t l i n e d with

25 M r . W a l t e r s , w o u l d you b e a b l e t o c o n s i d e r

26 t h a t f a c t o r going i n t o i t ?

27 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

28 Q. Okay. And would you b e a b l e t o

29 c o n s i d e r t h a t factor a n d g i v e i t i t s

30 appropriate weight?

31 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

Q. Y o u m i g h t n o t g i v e i t a l o t of

149

5365
 1 weight.

2 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Right.

3 Q. O r you might g i v e i t a l o t of w e i g h t .

4 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Right.

Q. Do you feel now t h a t you would b e

a b l e to d o t h a t ?

A. (By Mr. Natale) Sure.

a Q. T o that extent, w o u l d you s t i l l b e

9 able to consider and impose a life sentence

10 based on what you h e a r ?

11 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

12 Q. Do you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

13 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

14 Q. Okay. Is t h e r e anyone e l s e t h a t h a s
15 any q u e s t i o n s about what I ' v e c o v e r e d in t h e

16 m i t i g a t i n g p h a s e p o r t i o n of the p e n a l t y p h a s e ?

17 O n t h i s f i r s t row?

18 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

19 A. (By Ms. Thornton) (No response.)

20 A. (By M s . Edwards) (No response.)

A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) (No r e s p o n s e . ) ,

22 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) ( N o response.)

23 A. ( B y M s . Hicks') ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

24 Q. O n this second r o w ?

A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) ( N o response.)

26 A. (By Mr. Walters) ( N o response.)

27 A. ( B y M s . Snelling) (No response.)

28 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

29 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

30 A. (By Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

31 Q. T h i s i s m y l a s t topic, l a d i e s and

32 g e n t l e m e n . T o return a d e a t h s e n t e n c e , t h e
 1 Q. Ms. Edwards.

2 A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes.

3 Q. Mr. Walker.

4 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) (Juror nods head.)

5 Q. Everyone i s here. Ladies and

6 gentlemen before I s i t down, i s t h e r e anyone

7 t h a t has any questions about any t o p i c I

8 covered i n t h i s voir dire? I know i t h a s been

9 a l o n g voir dire. We h a v e covered a l o t o f

10 topics. Is t h e r e anybody t h a t h a s any

11 q u e s t i o n s o n t h i s f i r s t row r e l a t e d t o a n y

12 t o p i c s I've covered?

13 A. (By M r . N a t a l e ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

14 A. (By M s . Thornton) (No response.)

15 A. (By M s . Edwards) (No r e s p o n s e . )

16 A. (By M r . Olague) (No r e s p o n s e . )

17 A. (By M r . Walker) (No r e s p o n s e . )

18 A. (By M s . Hicks) (No response.)

19 Q. On t h e s e c o n d r o w ?

A. (By M s . Dixon) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. (By M r . Walters) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. (By M s . Snelling) (No response.)

23 A. (By M r . Jefferson) (No r e s p o n s e . )

24 A. (By M s . Clay) (No r e s p o n s e . )

25 A. (By M r . Thomas) (No response.)

26 MR. THOMPSON: I do want t o say this

b e f o r e I s i t down, ladies and gentlemen, I

28 know t h i s c a n b e a l o n g p r o c e s s . A n d I know i t

29 c a n be t e d i o u s a n d t h i s i s t h e p r o c e s s t h a t

30 the TV shows l e a v e o u t . A l o t of times, the

31 c l i e n t comes i n t o t h e o f f i c e , and t h e i r case

32 i s being presented t h a t afternoon and they can

 1 get it done in an hour. And this i s the

2 process they leave out, but keep in mind,

3 ladies and gentlemen, this is an important

4 process. I do thank you for your honest

5 answers in this process. This is an important

6 case. And this is the reason why a l l the

7 parties do this {process. So we appreciate your

8 patience.

9 Your Honor, at this time, I tender the

10 panel.

11 THE COURT: A l l right. Please take the

12 jury into Courtroom H.

13 (Whereupon the venire panel was excused from

14 the courtroom. )

15 THE COURT: We will b e in recess until

16 2:30.

17

18 (Whereupon court was recessed d u r i n g the noon

19 hour. )

20

21 AFTERNOON SESSION

22 2 : 3 0 p.m.

23 WHEREUPON. . .
24 the following proceedings were had:

25 (Whereupon the defendant was present with

26 counsel. )

27 THE COURT: A r e ' y o u ready t o proceed?

28 MR. THOMPSON: We are, Your Honor.

29 Recalling the matter of State of

30 Louisiana vs. Felton Dorsey,

31 Docket No. 251,406, the defendant is present

32 in court with counsel, M r . Alan Golden and

153
 a

1 D a v i d M c C l a t c h e y ; Dhu T h o m p s o n a n d

2 Mr. C h a r l e s S c o t t with t h e d i s t r i c t attorney's

3 office. We are outside the presence of the

4 jury, a n d we a r e r e a d y t o p r o c e e d w i t h v o i r
5 dire.

6 MR. G O L D E N : T h e d e f e n s e is r e a d y ,

7 Y o u r Honor.

8 ( W h e r e u p o n a d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e r e c o r d was

9 held. )

10 MR. GOLDEN: We w o u l d l i k e t o q u e s t i o n

11 outside the presence of the other members

12 j u r o r n u m b e r ten, Ms. S n e l l i n g , a n d j u r o r

13 number f i v e , Mr. O l a g u e .
14 MR. THOMPSON: That's correct,

15 Your Honor.

16 THE COURT: A l l right.

17 MR. THOMPSON: W i t h the C o u r t ' s

ia p e r m i s s i o n , we w o u l d l i k e t o s t a r t w i t h

19 Mr. Olague.

20 ( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s s e a t e d in

21 the courtroom.)

22 THE COURT: W e j u s t b r o u g h t y o u in t o

23 a s k y o u a few q u e s t i o n s o u t s i d e t h e p r e s e n c e

24 of t h e o t h e r j u r o r s .

25 Is the S t a t e r e a d y t o p r o c e e d .

26 MR. THOMPSON: We are, Your Honor.

27

28 F U R T H E R VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

29 BY MR. THOMPSON:

30 Q. G o o d a f t e r n o o n a g a i n , Mr. O l a g u e . You

31 i n d i c a t e d in t h e regular r o u n d o f v o i r d i r e

3 2. you m i g h t h a v e h a d s o m e p e r s o n a l i n f o r m a t i o n
 a b o u t t h i s c a s e , a n d you might k n o w t h e f a m i l y

o r t h e victim i n this c a s e ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?

A. (By Mr. Olague) I know the families

personally. I am a retired f i r e f i g h t e r . My

I 5 1 s o n i s a f i r e f i g h t e r , and h e h a d t h e

1 o p p o r t u n i t y on s e v e r a l o c c a s i o n s t o w o r k with

C a p t a i n P r o c k , so I d o k n o w t h r o u g h h i m a n d

s e v e r a l othe-rs.

Q. Okay. And what - -

10 A. ( B y Mr. Olague) I have a lot of

I
I

11 information that was given to me about the

12 incident.

13 Q. What information have you learned

14 from these c o n t a c t s ?

15 A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) J u s t the m a n n e r of
16 s o m e o f t h e things t h a t went on a t t h e s c e n e .

17 Q. Okay.

18 A. (By Mr. Olague) I don't want to get

19 t o o d e e p i n t o it.

20 Q. I'm sorry?

21 A. (By Mr. O l a g u e ) I d o n ' t w a n t t o g e t

22 t o o d e e p i n t o i t , s o m e of the t h i n g s t h a t

23 o c c u r r e d a t the i n c i d e n t .

24 Q. S o you k n o w s o m e p e r s o n a l i n f o r m a t i o n

25 a b o u t what o c c u r r e d at the s c e n e .

26 A. (By Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.

27 Q. And d i d y o u hear t h i s f r o m y o u r s o n ?

28 A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) Yes.

29 Q. W a s this from t a l k s t h a t t h e y m i g h t

30 have had - -

31 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) I t w a s f r o m

32 individuals supposedly that made the engine

155
5871.
 i
'-' 60
P
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32
1 that day. m
c3
2 Q. Okay. Some firemen that might have ($21
1 I"'

3 been at the scene? @i\

Cf"
N
4 A. ( B y Mr. Olague) Yes. c9

5 Q. Okay. Y o u r son i s a f i r e m a n as w e l l ?
w1'4
Q
6 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes. c9
(13
7 Q. A n d in what d i s t r i c t d o e s h e w o r k ?

8 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) He w o r k s f o r t h e

9 City of Shreveport now, but prior to coming to

10 Shreveport, he w o r k e d w i t h several of the fire

11 districts, including fire district three.

12 Q. Having that information, have you

13 formed any preconceived notions about the

14 defendant's guilt in this case?

15 A. ( B y M r . Olague) No.

16 Q. Would that information and your son's

17 s i t u a t i o n a f f e c t you in any way f r o m s e r v i n g

18 a s a f a i r a n d impartial j u r o r i n t h i s c a s e ?

19 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) I w o u l d l i k e t o t h i n k

20 no. I h a v e a l w a y s p r i d e d m y s e l f on t r y i n g t o

21 m a k e l o g i c a l d e c i s i o n s b a s e d o n facts. I

22 d o n ' t t h i n k i t would.

23 Q. D o you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t , t h a t

24 you c o u l d s e r v e in a f a i r a n d i m p a r t i a l m a n n e r

25 in t h i s c a s e ?

26 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes. I just wanted

27 t h a t i n f o r m a t i o n known. I want t o b e f a i r a n d

28 g i v e you t h a t i n f o r m a t i o n .

29 Q. Absolutely. And we a p p r e c i a t e y o u r

30 honesty. I s t h e r e anything e l s e a b o u t t h a t

31 c o n t a c t in t h a t situation t h a t w o u l d c a u s e y o u

32 t r o u b l e in s e r v i n g a s a f a i r j u r o r i n t h i s

156
58""
?V.
 1 ~ case?

2 A. (By M r . Olague) No.

3 Q. Let me a s k you t h i s , Mr. Olague. If

4 y o u were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r i n t h i s case,

5 what would you base y o u r d e c i s i o n o n o r y o u r

. .
6 verdict on?

7 A. (By M r . O l a g u e ) Based o n t h e e v i d e n c e

8 p r e s e n t e d a n d how i t r e l a t e d t o t h e s t a t u t e o f

9 f i r s t degree m u r d e r .

10 Q. Would y o u l e t a n y of that contact

11 i n f o r m a t i o n you received from y o u r s o n a f f e c t

12 your a b i l i t y i n your decision- making as a

13 j u r o r i n t h i s . case?

14 A. (By Mr. Olague) No.

15 Q. Do y o u f e e l s u r e a n d s t r o n g a b o u t

16 that?

17 A. (By M r . Olague) Y e s , sir.

18 Q. T h e f i r e m e n - - a n d t h i s i s more o f a

19 question f o r t h e next round, but I f e e l maybe

20 i t c o u l d be a n a p p r o p r i a t e s u b j e c t t o t o u c h o n

2 1 now. W e d o have firemen scheduled t o t e s t i f y

22 t h a t m i g h t have worked i n that precinct or

23 district that y o u r s o n was a s s i g n e d t o , would

24 y o u be a b l e t o e v a l u a t e t h o s e w i t n e s s e s a s y o u

25 would any o t h e r w i t n e s s i f you s t a y e d on t h i s

26 jury?

27 A. (By M r . Olague) I would think so.

28 I t ' s more t h a n l i k e l y I m i g h t e v e n k n o w some

29 of them m y s e l f .

30 Q. W e m i g h t have t o e x p l o r e t h a t topic

31 later. In reference t o your son's s i t u a t i o n ,

i 32 w o u l d h i s k n o w l e d g e of the v i c t i m or his
 ~ c o n t a c t with t h e s e f i r e m e n , w o u l d t h a t a f f e c t

I 2 y o u r d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g if y o u w e r e s e l e c t e d a s a

3 j u r o r in t h i s case?

~4 A. (By Mr. O l a g u e ) No.

5 MR. THOMPSON: M r . Olague, t h e d e f e n s e
I
,
6 may h a v e s o m e q u e s t i o n s f o r y o u . I appreciate

7 your honesty.

9 VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

10 B Y MR. G O L D E N :

11 Q. G o o d a f t e r n o o n , Mr. O l a g u e .

12 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Hello.

13 Q. We d o n ' t mean t o put y o u o n t h e s p o t ,

14 b u t we h a v e t o e x p l o r e c e r t a i n t h i n g s l i k e
15 t h a t b e c a u s e we think any t i m e an- i s s u e c o m e s

16 up like pretrial publicity or anything else

17 t h a t c o u l d a f f e c t your p a r t i a l i t y , we h a v e t o

18 know about it.

19 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes, sir.

20 Q. And you d i d the r i g h t t h i n g

21 d i s c l o s i n g it. No right or wrong answers,

22 only honest ones. And we d o n ' t c a r e i f i t

23 w o u l d a f f e c t you. We don't care if it would

24 b o t h e r y o u . We j u s t need what e f f e c t i t w o u l d

25 have.

26 A. (By Mr. O l a g u e ) I u n d e r s t a n d .

27 Q. You were a fireman h e r e in

28 Shreveport?

29 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) S h r e v e p o r t , y e s , s i r

30 Q. W h a t area d i d you work?

31 A. ( B y M r . Olague) I worked all over

32 the city.
 . .-.

Q. Did y o u work with Mr. J o e P r o c k e v e r ?

A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) N o , n e v e r . I d o n o t

k n o w Mr. P r o c k .

4 Q. Y o u n e v e r m e t him?

5 A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) No, sir.

6 Q. Do y o u k n o w a n y m e m b e r s o f h i s

7 family?

8 A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) No.

9 Q. D i d y o u go t o h i s f u n e r a l ?

10 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) Not to his funeral,

11 b u t I w e n t t o h i s wake.

12 Q. To t h e wake. Okay. You did go t o the

13 wake. Now, your son is a fireman?

14 A. (By Mr. O l a g u e ) Yes.

15 Q. Here in Shreveport?

16 A. (By Mr. Olague) Yes.

17 Q. A n d d i d he k n o w M r . P r o c k ?

18 A. (By Mr. Olague) Yes.

19 Q. Do you know how well he knew him?

20 A. (By Mr. Olague) I would say they

21 w e r e n ' t g o o d f r i e n d s , b u t he h a d s e v e r a l

22 occasions to be able to work with him. Prior

23 t o c o m i n g t o work.,for S h r e v e p o r t , h e w o r k e d

24 for several districts including fire district

25 three, and I think he just knew him a s an

26 employee, not necessarily on a personal basis.

27 Q. N o w , y o u m e n t i o n e d t h a t ,you m e t s o m e

28 ' of your son's acquaintances, firemen, some of

29 them who actually worked the incident

30 involving Joe Prock?

31 A .'' (By Mr. Olague) I did not meet them

32 or have a discussion with them. All the

159
5 '2' 5
 1 information came to me from my son.

2 Q. Could you tell us all the information

3 you know about this case?

4 A. (By Mr. Olague) It was described t o

5 me that these individuals, Captain Prock was,

6 the manner i n which he was k i l l e d ' w a s rather

7 horrendous.

8 Q. Would you speak up, please. You said

9 the manner he was killed was what?

10 A. (By Mr. Olague) I was told that he

11 had been set o n fire and that he had been

12 shot.

13 Q. That he was what?

14 A. (By Mr. Olague) Shot.

15 Q. Shot. You u s e d the word "horrendous"

16 before.
17 A. (By Mr. Olague) Yes.

18 Q. Was that the word they used, or i s

19 that your word to describe it?

20 A. (By Mr. Olague) That's my word.

21 Q* Okay. What else do you know a b o u t it?

22 Do you know when it occurred, how it occurred?

23 A. (By Mr. Olague) I know that i t

24 occurred a t his mother's house, and he walked

25 in, and it was described as a home invasion or

26 a robbery, that his mother had been injured

27 also in some way, also.

28 Q. Did you learn any information t o how

29 many people were involved?

30 A. (By Mr. Olague) I ' m sure I was. I

31 think it was two, but I d o not recall.

32 Q. You learned that the mother was

 ,
: r
L'

~~

1 injured?
~

2 A. ( B y Mr. Olague) T h a t ' s what I w a s

3 t o l d , y e s , sir.

4 Q. What k i n d o f i n f o r m a t i o n do y o u h a v e

I 5 about that?

6 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) J u s t t h a t s h e w a s

I 7 injured.
I 8 Q. W h e n Mr. Thompson a s k e d y o u w h e t h e r

9 having this knowledge and being a fireman,

10 being p a r t of t h e c o m m u n i t y in w h i c h M r . P r o c k
11 s e r v e d f o r y e a r s would a f f e c t y o u r p a r t i a l i t y ,

12 a n d y o u s a i d " I would like t o t h i n k n o . "

13 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) I'm a h u m a n b e i n g ,

14 and again, I've tried t o base a l l of my

15 d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g on the f a c t s t h a t w e r e

16 a v a i l a b l e , a n d I would l i k e t o t h i n k t h a t I

17 c o u l d s t i l l d o it. I believe I can. That's

the best that I can do.

19 Q. S o m e t i m e s we a s k p e o p l e t o d o

20 difficult, if not impossible, things.

21 A. (By M r . O l a g u e ) S u r e .

22 Q. For e x a m p l e , i f I t o l d y o u t o f o r g e t

23 t h a t i n f o r m a t i o n , you c o u l d n ' t ?

24 A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) No.

25 Q. When d i d you l e a r n t h i s i n f o r m a t i o n ,

26 by t h e way?

27 A. ( B y Mr. Olague) P r o b a b l y w i t h i n a d a y

28 o r so a f t e r the i n c i d e n t o c c u r r e d .

29 Q. And you r e m e m b e r i t a f t e r a l l t h e s e

30 years?

31 A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) Yes, sir.

32 Q. Since it happened, have you learned

 1 a d d i t i o n a l information - -

A. (By M r . Olague) No.

Q. - - t h a t s t a y e d with y o u ?
4 A. (By M r . O l a g u e ) ( J u r o r sha'kes h e a d . )

5 Q* Now, you used the word that what was

6 done to Mr. J o e P r o c k was " h o r r e n d o u s . "
7 That's a pretty strong adjective, and that

a describes - - would it also describe your

9 f e e l i n g s a b o u t what was d o n e t o h i m ?

10 A. (By Mr. Olague) Well, i f that be the

11 c a s e , I w o u l d c o n s i d e r it h o r r e n d o u s . I've

12 s e e n s o m e h o r r e n d o u s t h i n g s in m y l i f e a s a

13 f i r e f i g h t e r , a n d I would c o n s i d e r t h a t

14 horrendous.
15 Q. P l e a s e s p e a k up.

16 A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) I a p o l o g i z e . I have

17 h a d s o m e s u r g e r y , and I'm - - I h a v e a b a d c a s e

ia o f d r y m o u t h , a n d it's d i f f i c u l t s o m e t i m e s . I

19 w i l l d o my b e s t .

20 Q. I f you n e e d s o m e w a t e r , t h e y c a n

21 p r o v i d e it f o r y o u .

22 A. (By Mr. Olague) I ' m a l l right. Thank

23 you.

24 Q. As a fireman, y o u ' v e s e e n a l o t o f

25 burned people.

26 A. (By Mr. O l a g u e ) (Juror nods head.)

27 Q. And having it d o n e t o o n e o f y o u r o w n '

28 is particularly troublesome; would that be

29 fair to say?

30 A. ( B y M r . O l a g u e ) Yes.

31 Q. And e v e n t h o u g h y o u ' w o u l d t r y , y o u

32 would try to honestly be fair and impartial,

 .....
!
‘L”

1 is t h e r e any way y o u c a n g u a r a n t e e u s t h a t

during the trial that your emotions would not

come into play?

A. ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) I ’ m a h u m a n b e i n g .

T h e r e i s no way I can convince you. All I can

t e l l you i s t h a t 1 , h a v e b a s e d m y l i f e o n

l o g i c a l d e c i s i o n s , based o n t h e b e s t f a c t s

8 available.

9 Q. A n d I believe you w o u l d t r y t o d o

10 y o u r b e s t , b u t all y o u c a n t e l l u s i s t h a t you

11 can just try; is that right?

12 A. ( B y Mr. Olague) Y e s , s i r .

13 MR. G O L D E N : T h a n k y o u , Mr. O l a g u e .

14 MR. THOMPSON: No f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s ,

15 Y o u r Honor.

16 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. Y o u may

17 r e t u r n o u t s i d e t o C o u r t r o o m H. W e w i l l call

18 y o u b a c k shortly.

19 ,THE J U R O R : ( B y Mr. O l a g u e ) T h a n k y o u .

20 THE COURT: All right. T h a n k y o u , sir.

21 (Whereupon the prospective juror was excused

22 f r o m the c o u r t r o o m . )

23 THE COURT: W h o is t h e n e x t p e r s o n t o

24 be questioned individually?

25 MR. T H O M P S O N : Your Honor, I believe

26 juror number ten, Ms. Snelling.

27 MR. GOLDEN: Your Honor, before we take

28 u p Ms. S n e l l i n g , I w o u l d l i k e t o m a k e a m o t i o n

29 t o c h a l l e n g e Mr. O l a g u e f o r c a u s e .

30 T H E COURT: You may m a k e y o u r m o t i o n .

31 MR. G O L D E N : I move to challenge

32 M r . O l a g u e for c a u s e under A r t i c l e 7 9 7 o f t h e

163
 C o d e o f C r i m i n a l P r o c e d u r e , i n that I d o n ' t

t h i n k Mr. O l a g u e can b e i m p a r t i a l w h a t e v e r the

c a u s e of h i s p a r t i a l i t y . Your Honor, I

~
4 b e l i e v e he i s very h o n e s t . I believe he was
I
5 v e r y c a n d i d , a n d I t h i n k h e w o u l d t r y to do
6 h i s very, very best to be a fair and impartial
7 j u r o r a n d t o be l o g i c a l , b e , o b j e c t i v e a n d d o

t h i n g s in a f a i r m a n n e r ; h o w e v e r , g i v e n what

he has already heard, given his connection to

10 f i r e f i g h t e r s , especially the connection f r o m '

11 the s o n t o the victim a n d e v e n t h e fact that

12 h e went t o the victim's w a k e s h o w s t h a t t h e r e

.
13 was a s t r o n g connection.

14 He, himself, characterized what had

15 happened t o the victim J o e P r o c k as, his own

16 w o r d was, l l h o r r e n d o u s lwlh i c h h e e x p l a i n e d was

17 n o t the word that they g a v e h i m , b u t h i s o w n

18 w o r d t o c h a r a c t e r i z e what h e t h o u g h t of i t .

19 A n d I b e l i e v e t h a t t h a t i s an i n d i c a t i o n o f

20 t h e way h e f e e l s a b o u t w h a t h a p p e n e d t o

21 M r . P r o c k in this c a s e .

22 He d i d s a y h e w o u l d t r y t o set a s i d e

23 the i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t h e h a d . Of c o u r s e , he

24 c a n n o t f o r g e t it, a n d e v e n t h o u g h h e w o u l d t r y

25 to do his best, there is no guarantee that

26 w h a t h e k n o w s would c o m e i n t o p l a y l a t e r a n d

27 a f f e c t the way h e d e l i b e r a t e s in t h i s c a s e .

28 For t h a t r e a s o n , I w o u l d m o v e t o c h a l l e n g e

29 Mr. O l a g u e f o r c a u s e .

30 MR. T H O M P S O N : Your H o n o r , we w o u l d

31 r e s p e c t f u l l y note a n o b j e c t i o n t o M r . O l a g u e

32 being challenged. He was questioned

 thoroughly by b o t h p a r t y parties in r e g a r d s t o

the information that he had received f r o m h i s

I 3 son. H e i n d i c a t e d t h a t h i s son k n e w the

~ 4 v i c t i m , but h e h a d n e v e r h a d a n y c o n t a c t w i t h

I 5 Mr. Prock, n o r h a d h e h a d a n y o c c a s i o n s t o

I 6 work t h e d i s t r i c t where M r . P r o c k w a s

assigned. He indicated that the i n f o r m a t i o n

h e r e c e i v e d , and I w o u l d n o t e t h e i n f o r m a t i o n

received is still similar to the basic fact

10 p a t t e r n s t h a t we h a v e s h o w n t o t h e j u r o r s a n d

1'1 the basic fact patterns t h a t ' s b e e n r e p o r t e d

12 in the news.

13 He indicated t h a t h e c o u l d s e t t h i s

14 i n f o r m a t i o n a s i d e a n d b a s e h i s d e c i s i o n on the

15 f a c t s and e v i d e n c e i n p l a y and r e i t e r a t e d t h a t
16 s e v e r a l times during h i s answers. He further

17 i n d i c a t e d t h a t he c o u l d b e a f a i r a n d

18 i m p a r t i a l juror, and h e d i d f e e l s t r o n g l y

19 a b o u t t h a t , a n d I b e l i e v e his d e m e a n o r a n d the

20 way h e answered o u r q u e s t i o n s d o r e f l e c t t h a t

21 he does have a sincere belief that he can be

22 f a i r a n d i m p a r t i a l in t h i s c a s e a n d s e t a s i d e

23 t h a t i n f o r m a t i o n a n d b a s e h i s v e r d i c t on the

24 f a c t s a n d evidence. He i n d i c a t e d t h a t t h a t

25 i n f o r m a t i o n would n o t i n f l u e n c e h i s

26 d e c i s i o n - m a k i n g in any w a y .

27 Mr. Golden q u e s t i o n e d h i m a s t o whether

28 or not his emotions would come into play, and

29 I d o n ' t b e l i e v e t h e r e is a n y g u a r a n t e e d r i g h t

30 a s s e r t e d t o the d e f e n d a n t t h a t t h e j u r o r i s

31 n o t g o i n g to h a v e e m o t i o n s i n p l a y , b u t the

32 k e y h e r e i s whether o r n o t h e c o u l d s e t t h i s
 1 information aside and base his decision

2 strictly on the facts and evidence. And I

3 b e l i e v e h e h a s i n d i c a t e d s u c h so t o w h e r e t h e

4 information he was given d o e s not rise to a

5 l e v e l for a challenge f o r cause. For t h o s e

r e a s o n s , Your Honor, we w o u l d r e s p e c t f u l l y

object.

MR. G O L D E N : Yo'ur H o n o r , r e a l b r i e f l y .

9 He b o t h h a s a p e r s o n a l c o n n e c t i o n t o t h e

10 victim indirectly through his son a n d direct11

11 by b e i n g a m e m b e r of t h a t c o m m u n i t y o f

12 f i r e f i g h t e r s and a c t u a l l y g o i n g t o t h e w a k e of

13 Mr. J o e Prock, b u t i n a d d i t i o n , h e h a s outside

14 p e r s o n a l k n o w l e d g e t h a t jurors s h o u l d n ' t come

15 i n t o the courtroom with, a n d t h a t goes b e y o n d

16 t h e b a s i c fact p a t t e r n t h a t t h e S t a t e h a s beer!

17 showing.

18 They've just been showing the jurors

19 the outline that says a home invasion robbery,

20 Joe Prock has been killed and on the date. It

21 d o e s n ' t g i v e any of t h o s e d e t a i l s . S o ,

22 Your Honor, we h a v e a d o u b l e p r o b l e m h e r e , and

23 I t h i n k t h a t the o n l y r e m e d y i s a c h a l l e n g e

24 f o r c h a l l e n g e being g r a n t e d .

25 MR. T H O M P S O N : Your H o n o r , i f I may

26 r e s p o n d t o t h a t a s well, t o o , t h e l a w

27 r e c o g n i z e s t h a t a j u r o r may h a v e s o m e t y p e o f

28 c o n t a c t with t h e p a r t i e s i n t h i s case. These

29 s i t u a t i o n s a r e n o t u n u s u a l in s m a l l e r p a r i s h e s

30 where everyone knows everybody, and everybody

31 h a s h e a r d information a n d f a c t s a b o u t an

32 incident. T h e key i s w h e t h e r o r n o t t h e s e
 ..

I I I

I I
 .\
9,

.- !
"

FURTHER VOIR DIRE E X A M I N A T I O N

B Y MR. T H O M P S O N :

Q. Ms. S n e l l i n g , good a f t e r n o o n a g a i n .

You i n d i c a t e d in the e a r l i e r r o u n d t h a t o n e o f

your friends may have had a personal

r e l a t i o n s h i p with the victim in t h i s c a s e ,

Mr. Joe Prock.

A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

Q. I h o p e this i s a p r i v a t e e n o u g h

10 s e t t i n g t o t a l k about those issues. And I'll

11 l e t y o u elaborate.

12 A. (By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) I t w a s d i s c u s s e d a t

13 l e n g t h when i t happened, you k n o w , what

14 happened and the circumstances, the things,

15 you k n o w , a n d i t wasn't from t h e m e d i a or from

16 t h e f a m i l y . And - -

17 Q. When y o u say " t h e f a m i l y , " w h o a r e

18 you referring to?

19 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o response.)

20 Q. Y o u ' r e saying you h a d s o m e

21 discussions?

22 A. ( B y M s . S n e l l i n g ) No, I d i d n ' t h e a r

23 i t d i r e c t l y from t h e f a m i l y . I heard it from

24 my friend.

25 Q. Your f r i e n d ?

26 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) R i g h t .

27 Q. Okay.

28 A. ( B y M s . S n e l l i n g ) Y o u k n o w , we h a v e a

29 l a r g e w o r k p l a c e of women, so t h e r e i s t a l k .

30 But, anyway, you know, it was discussed at

31 great length then, and then, of course, it has

32 c o m e u p a g a i n s i n c e the trial. And, of

 1 course, my summons came from civil court, so I

2 had n o clue that I was going to b e in a juror

3 pool for a criminal trial.

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. (By M s . Snelling) B e c a u s e I have

6 been served for criminal before.

7 Q. What information did you receive when

8 the incident first occurred from your friend?

9 A. (By Ms. Snelling) Just that, you

10 know, h e p a s s e d his mother's house a n d saw a

11 strange car there, stopped to check on her,

12 and he was attacked, he was beaten, he was

13 tied to a chair and caught on fire.

14 Q. Okay.

15 A. (By Ms. Snelling) And that the mom

16 was able to free herself and escape the house

17 a f t e r t h e p e o p l e left.

18 Q. A n d a r e y o u a t liberty to state what

19 type o f relationship this lady had with

20 M r . Prock?

21 A. (By Ms. Snelling) She's not - - YOU

22 know, she just said that - -

23 Q. I d o n ' t mean to say it that way. It

24 probably came out wrong. What I'm saying is,

25 what type - - like close friends?

26 A. (By Ms. Snelling) Friend.

27 Q. Colleagues?

28 A. (By M s . Snelling) It was through a

29 close personal friend.

30 Q. Okay.

31 A. (By M s . Snelling) She, you know, she

32 d i d n ' t g o into any detail as to - - you know ,

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 y o u s o m e d i f f i c u l t y ; w o u l d t h a t b e f a i r to,

I say?

I A.

Q.
(By Ms. Snelling) Yes.

I'll l e t you a n s w e r t h i s , a n d I ' l l

accept whatever answer you have, do you feel

t h a t t h e i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t you r e c e i v e d a n d the

n a t u r e o f the c i r c u m s t a n c e s o f t h i s c a s e w o u l d

, impair your ability to serve as a fair and

impartial juror in this c a s e ?

A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes, I do.
Q. And d o y o u feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

Q. Is t h e r e anything I c o u l d s a y o r

M r . M c C l a t c h e y o r Mr. G o l d e n c o u l d s a y t h a t

w o u l d c h a n g e y o u r mind?

A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) N o .

MR. THOMPSON: Ms. S n e l l i n g , I d o want

t o thank you f o r y o u r a n s w e r s a n d y o u r

honesty.
MR. G O L D E N : Your H o n o r , t h e d e f e n s e

Ms. Snelling, you may return to

,
Courtroom H. We will call you back shortly.
~

(Whereupon the prospective juror was excused

from the courtroom.)

MR. G O L D E N : Let t h e r e c o r d r e f l e c t

t h a t a l l p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r s a r e o u t of t h e

courtroom.

I Y o u r Honor, a t t h i s t i m e t h e d e f e n s e

w o u l d move t o c h a l l e n g e M s . S n e l l i n g for c a u s e

u n d e r Article 797, a n i n a b i l i t y t o b e a n
 1 i m p a r t i a l j u r o r in t h i s c a s e .

2 MR. T H O M P S O N : That's without objection

. 3 b a s e d h e r a n s w e r s a n d h e r d e m e a n o r in t h e

4 i n d i v i d u a l round o f voir d i r e .

5 THE COURT: For the r e a s o n s s t a t e d b y

6 the defense and b y the State, the Cdurt will

7 g r a n t the c h a l l e n g e f o r c a u s e w i t h n o

8 o b j ection .

9 (Whereupon the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d

10 from t h e venire panel.)

11 MR. THOMPSON: Your H o n o r , I w o u l d a l s o

12 note that juror number four had indicated her

.13 i n a b i l i t y t o c o n s i d e r the d e a t h p e n a l t y in the

14 matter. I've spoken to defense counsel. It

15 is my understanding that as employed by

16 e a r l i e r m e t h o d s in t h e e a r l i e r r o u n d s in voir

17 d i r e t h a t the d e f e n s e w i s h e s t o q u e s t i o n h e r

18 at this time. I believe she may be an

19 i n d i v i d u a l t h a t would b e c h a l l e n g e a b l e b y

20 c a u s e , b u t I wanted t o a f f o r d the d e f e n s e an

21 opportunity to question her at this time.

22 MR. GOLDEN: Yes, Honor. I believe she

23 may w e l l b e a W i t h e r s p o o n e x c l u d a b l e . I would

24 like to examine her further at this time.

25 THE COURT: A l l right. So o r d e r e d .

26 Ms. E r m a E d w a r d s .

27 ( W h e r e u p o n t h e p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s s e a t e d in

28 the courtroom. )

29 THE COURT: Ms. E d w a r d s , w e b r o u g h t you

30 in t o a s k you' a few' q u e s t i o n s o u t s i d e t h e

3 1 p r e s e n c e o f the o t h e r j u r o r s .

32 T H E JUROR: (By M s . E d w a r d s ) Okay.

 I
1 I THE COURT: Is t h e defense ready t o

2 proceed.

3 MR. GOLDEN: Thank y o u , Your Honor.

VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

BY M R . G O L D E N :

Q. Good a f t e r n o o n , Ms. E d w a r d s .

8 A. (By M s . Edwards) H e l l o .

9 Q. M s . Edwards, when you w e r e previously

10 asked t o r a t e yourself by M r . Thompson, you

11 rated yourself as a five.

12 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

13 Q. And I b e l i e v e h i s c h a r t s a i d t h a t y o u

14 would t h i n k t h a t the death penalty is the only

15 a p p r o p r i a t e punishment -- I ' m s o r r y -- t h a t

16 l i f e imprisonment i s t h e only a p p r o p r i a t e

17 punishment f o r f i r s t degree murder.

18 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

19 Q. Would you automatically vote for a

20 l i f e s e n t e n c e f o r somebody c o n v i c t e d o f first

21 d e g r e e m u r d e r no m a t t e r w h a t t h e evidence i s ?

22 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) N o m a t t e r w h a t the

23 evidence i s . Like I said before, I d o n ' t want

24 t o be t h e o n e t o p l a c e t h e p e n a l t y on someone

25 and then they find out a few y e a r s later that

26 t h a t wasn't t h a t person even though t h e

27 e v i d e n c e -- t h e y had a l l t h e e v i d e n c e t h a t you

28 have t h a t pointed d i r e c t l y t o t h a t person and

29 n o o t h e r e v i d e n c e h a d come a b o u t s t a t i n g t h a t

30 wasn't t h a t person, s o t h i s person has been

31 p l a c e d o n d e a t h row a n d g o i n g t o r e c e i v e t h e

32 death penalty, and t h e n t h i s person g e t s the

 death penalty and then later on you find out,
hey, this wasn't the person. And then I

couldn't live with myself doing that. That's

4 why I am against the death penalty.

5 Q. Is that your only concern, or do you

6 have other reasons?

7 A. (By Ms. Edwards) No.

8 Q. That's your only concern?

9 A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes.

10 Q* In o r d e r t o g e t t o t h e p o i n t in a
11 capitai case where the jury i s deciding
12 sentence, in order to get that point, that

13 means there was a conviction for first degree

14 murder.

15 A. (By Ms. E d w a r d s ) O k a y .
16 Q. That means that the State has proved
17 guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

18 A. (By M s . Edwards) I understand.

19 Q. If somebody comes before you w h o ' s

20 guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, could you

2 1 then consider both options reasonably?

22 A. (By M s . Edwards) I could.

23 Q. ' A l l right. S o if I understand you,

24 if somebody comes to you in the guilt phase -

25 I'm sorry - - comes to you in a penalty phase,

26 he has been found guilty, you could consider

27 both options.

28 A. (By Ms. E-dwards) I could consider.

29 Q. And that's assuming that his guilt

30 has been shown beyond a reasonable doubt.

31 A. (By M s . Edwards) Okay.

32 Q. And, o f course, you and the rest of

 1 the jurors would be here to decide whether he

2 w a s , in fact, g u i l t y b e y o n d a r e a s o n a b l e

3 doubt.

4 A. (By Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

5 Q. Does that make you feel better about

6 it?

7 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) A l i t t l e .

8 Q. I f you h a d a r e a s o n a b l e d o u b t , you

9 wouldn't have to find him guilty to begin

10 with.

11 A. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Right.

12 Q. In fact, the law s a y s y o u m u s t n o t

13 find, him guilty to begin with.

14 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) R i g h t .

15 Q. Does that help allay your fears?

16 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yeah.

17 Q. So if somebody c o m e s b e f o r e y o u for

18 sentencing, that's only because his guilt has

19 been established. When I s a y " g u i l t , " g u i l t

20 of m u r d e r .

21 A. (By Ms. Edwards) The murder.

22 Q. Beyond a r e a s o n a b l e d o u b t t o y o u r

23 s a t i s f a c t i o n b e c a u s e it t a k e s a u n a n i m o u s

24 v e r d i c t t o f i n d s o m e b o d y , g u i l t y of f i r s t

25 d e g r e e murder.

26 A. ( B y M s ; E d w a r d s ) R i g h t , right. I

27 understand.

28 Q. So you w o u l d n e v e r h a v e to e v e n c r o s s

29 t h a t s e c o n d bridge t o d e t e r m i n e w h a t s e n t e n c e

30 is appropriate; do you understand that?

31 A. (By Ms. Edwards) I understand that.

32 Q. So i f h e i s b e f o r e you f o r
 s e n t e n c i n g , t h a t ' s b e c a u s e t h e r e i s no

reasonable doubt that he is not guilty; have

you got it?

A. (By Ms. E d w a r d s ) Urn-hum.

Q. So in t h a t p a r t i c u l a r c a s e , w h e r e

s o m e b o d y i s before you f o r s e n t e n c i n g , y o u

c o u l d c o n s i d e r the d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

8 A. ( B y Ms. Edwards) I don't - - I

9 wouldn't l i k e it, but I guess I could.
10 Q. You understand, a l o t of u s d o n ' t

11 l i k e t o d o a l o t o f things. S o m e t i m e s i t is

12 o u r d u t y t o d o it.

13 A. (By Ms. E d w a r d s ) Right.

14 Q. If i t w e r e the right p u n i s h m e n t , if

15 y o u f e l t h e really d e s e r v e d it, c o u l d y o u vote

16 to give it to him?

17 A. ( B y Ms. Edwards) I d o n ' t know.

18 Q. , Could you ever see yourself voting to

19 g i v e a n y b o d y the d e a t h p e n a l t y ?

20 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) I d o n ' t t h i n k so.

21 I ' v e a l w a y s f e a r e d a b o u t my o w n c h i l d , i f my

22 c h i l d w a s in that position, and t'hen i t w a s

23 t h e w r o n g p e r s o n , it w o u l d n ' t b r i n g m y c h i l d

24 back. I'm sorry. That's how I feel.

25 Q. Even though he has been proven guilty

26 beyond a reasonable doubt?

27 A. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes.

28 Q. Let me a s k y o u a s l i g h t l y d i f f e r e n t

29 question. Maybe t h i s w i l l h e l p c l e a r i t u p

3 .o b e c a u s e it s e e m s like you h a v e g o n e b a c k a n d

31 f o r t h on w h e t h e r you c o u l d e v e r i m p o s e t h e

32 death penalty. Would you h a v e s u b s t a n t i a l

 -.. 1

difficulty ever imposing the death p e n a l t y ?

A. (By Ms. Edwards) Yes, I would.

Q. Are you confident in t h a t p o s i t i o n ?

4 A. (By Ms. E d w a r d s ) I don't feel right

5 if I have to impose something to t a k e a l i f e ,
6 I know this, and that's based o n my religious

7 faith. I just can't s e e it. I've been.taught

8 t h i s way a l l my life and then come b a c k and

9 then I'm d o i n g what the Bible says n o t t o d o

10 which the defendant did it t o p u t t h e

11 defendant to death. I d o n ' t feel r i g h t . I

12 wouldn't feel right.

13 Q. So these are religious values a s

14 well?

15 A. ( B y M s . Edwards) Yes.

16 Q. Are theytvery important t o y o u ?

17 A. (By Ms. Edwards) Y e s .

18 Q. So you have personal f e e l i n g s a g a i n s t

19 the d e a t h penalty?

20 A. (By Ms. Edwards) Yes.

21 Q. In addition, you have r e l i g i o u s

22 scruples against the death penalty.

23 A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes.

24 Q. For those reasons, you would have

25 substantial difficulty ever imposing a d e a t h

26 sentence.

27 A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes.

28 Q. All right. Is there anything I o r

29 Judge Mosely could say to you t o c h a n g e y o u r

30 mind?

31 A. ( B y Ms. Edwards) I d o n ' t k n o w . I

32 would have t o hear what he h a d t o s a y .

 Q. If he were to tell you t h a t you have

to consider, it would be your d u t y to consider

imposing the death p e n a l t y , c o u l d you c o n s i d e r

it?

A. (By Ms. Edwards) I could consider it.

I would follow his instructions.

Q. "Consider" means more than s a y i n g I

will listen to the evidence - -

A. (By Ms. Edwards) No. I understand - -

Q. I t means s o m e t i m e s you have t o

actually impose it.

A. (By M s . Edwards) Right. I understand

it.

Q. It seems like that that's where we

run i n t o the problem. Could you sometimes

imp.ose it?

A. ( B y M s . Edwards) Yes. If I ' m g o i n g

to f o l l o w the judge's instructions, I'll

follow it.

Q. So you could sometimes impose i t if

the judge told you that i t was your d u t y to

consider t h a t option?

A. (By Ms. Edwards) Right.

Q. C o u l d you consider imposing i t

without substantial difficulty?

A. (By Ms. Edwards) I think I ' m g o i n g t o

always have difficulty. I don't know

whether - -

Q. When I say "difficulty," I d o n ' t

mean, you know, t o cause you some e m o t i o n a l

s t r e s s , would you have g r e a t reluctance when I

say "difficulty, I' great reluctance in ever

i
 imposing it?

A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Y e s .

MR. G O L D E N : I t e n d e r b a c k , Y o u r Honor.

FURTHER VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

BY MR. THOMPSON:

Q. G o o d a f t e r n o o n a g a i n , Ms. E d w a r d s . I

u n d e r s t a n d you are having s o m e d i f f i c u l t y w i t h

9 this c h o i c e , b u t you u n d e r s t a n d why we d o t h i s

10 process, right?

11 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

12 Q. You r e m e m b e r m y e a r l i e r c o n v e r s a t i o n s

13 a b o u t h a v i n g j u r o r s p u t on t h e c a s e and then

14 m i d w a y t h r o u g h they want t o s a y , w a i t , I

15 s h o u l d n ' t h a v e b e e n on t h i s c a s e b e c a u s e i t ' s

16 n o t f a i r t o your case b e c a u s e I'm n e v e r g o i n g

17 to impose a death penalty, I just can't do it;

18 d o y o u r e m e m b e r t h a t line of q u e s t i o n i n g ?

19 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes, I r e m e m b e r .

20 Q. T h a t ' s what w e ' r e s e e k i n g h e r e . And

I

21 I u n d e r s t a n d t h e question a b o u t a

22 consideration. D o you view a c o n s i d e r a t i o n

23 the s a m e 'as a c t u a l l y a b l e t o d o s o m e t h i n g ?

24 A. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes.

25 Q. I d o n ' t want t o put y o u r w o r d s i n

26 y o u r mouth.

27 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) O k a y . I ' m b e i n g

28 honest.

29 Q. Let me a s k you t h i s : As a potential

30 j u r o r in t h i s c a s e , if we put y o u on t h i s

31 jury, w o u l d the d e a t h p e n a l t y b e a s e r i o u s

32 option for you?

 _-

' 1 A. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) It w o u l d b e , b u t I

3 I Q. So you could i m p o s e the d e a t h

4 penalty?

5 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) I c o u l d .

6 Q. In what s c e n a r i o s a n d s i t u a t i o n s

7 c o u l d you c o n s i d e r t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y o n ?

8 A. (By Ms. Edwards) I think I heard of a

9 c a s e that I ' v e s e e n . I saw this one where

10 t h i s i n d i v i d u a l k i l l e d h i s f a m i l y , a n d he said

11 i t w a s b e c a u s e of the d i v o r c e a n d h i s m i n d h a d

12 c h a n g e d a n d h e d i d n ' t know what w a s g o i n g o n

13 at the time, and he felt t h a t h e d i d w h a t h e

14 was s u p p o s e d t o d o and t h a t h e s h o u l d n ' t h a v e

15 t h e d e a t h penalty because he w a s n ' t in h i s

16 r i g h t m i n d o r something. I just felt that he

17 n e e d s t o g e t the d e a t h p e n a l t y b e c a u s e I d o n ' t

18 k n o w , c h i l d r e n , my f a m i l y , o r a n y b o d y e l s e ' s

19 family that has been murdered.

20 Q. I'm sorry?

21 A. (By Ms. Edwards) I don't think that I

22 would.

23 Q. Y o u ' r e s a y i n g you d o n ' t t h i n k y o u

24 w o u l d on a n y t h i n g - -

25 A. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) W e l l , in s o m e c a s e s

26 w h e n i t was e x t r e m e l i k e t h a t a n d t h e y ' r e

27 c o n t i n u a l l y doing s t u f f l i k e m u r d e r i n g p e o p l e ,

28 like a serial killer, I don't mind imposing

29 the d e a t h p e n a l t y on them.

30 Q. W e l l , l e t me a s k y o u this: You

31 i n d i c a t e d e a r l i e r that you h a v e a r e l i g i o u s

32 b e l i e f a g a i n s t the d e a t h p e n a l t y .

5897
 .-

I 1 A. (By M s . Edwards) I do.

2 Q. And y o u feel strongly about that?

3 A. (By M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes.

4 Q. T h a t h a s been y o u r w h o l e l i f e t h a t
5 you've had that?

6 A. Yes, that's t h e w a y I was b r o u g h t u p .

7 Q. So y o u were b r o u g h t u p a g a i n s t the

8 death penalty?

9 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.
'10 Q. You have a religious belief against
11 the death penalty; is that fair t o say?

12 A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes, that is fair.

13 Q. Well, with that i n place, do you feel

14 that t h o s e views would prevent o r

15 s u b s t a n t i a l l y impair your a b i l i t y t o c o n s i d e r

16 the death p e n a l t y ? Do y o u s e e how t h a t w o r k s ?

17 A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes, I s e e how i t

18 works, but I usually t a l k t o my p a s t o r first.

19 Q. Well, i f you g e t selected f o r t h i s

20 jury, you are n o t g o i n g t o have y o u r p a s t o r

21 there t o h e l p you.

22 A. (By M s . Edwards) I know, .I k n o w .

23 Q. W e don't want p u t t o j u r o r s either

24 way i n a bad s i t u a t i o n i f they can't

25 c o n s i d e r --

26 A. (By M s . Edwards) I can. I can do it.

27 I can do it.

28 Q. Even t h o u g h you r a t e d y o u r s e l f a five

29 o n my d e a l ?

30 A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes, I c a n do i t . I

31 still can do it.

32 Q. I ' m sorry?
 1 A. (By M s . Edwards) I can do it.

Q. If w e were t o p l a c e y o u o n t h i s j u r y ,

a n d a s you c a n see, do you s e e F e l t o n D o r s e y

here i n court today?

A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.
Q. Knowing t h a t F e l t o n D o r s e y i s the

person that w e are seeking t h e death penalty

on r i g h t h e r e , w o u l d you a b l e t o impose t h e

d e a t h p e n a l t y on him? Would you be a b l e t o

10 come b a c k h e r e i n c o u r t and l o o k a t
11 F e l t o n Dorsey i n t h e face a n d s a y , I was p a r t

12 of the decision that imposed the d e a t h

13 penalt'y?

14 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) I c a n .
15 Q. You c a n ?

16 A. , (By M s . Edwards) I can.

17 Q. Even based on y o u r e a r l i e r a n s w e r s ?

18 A. (By M s . Edwards) Even based o n t h e

19 earlier answers, I can.

20 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Your Honor, could

21 I have a s e c o n d .

22 THE COURT: You m a y .

23 (Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f the record was

24 held. )

25 MR. THOMPSON: That's all the questions

26 I have at this time.

27 MR. GOLDEN: J u s t o n e more q u e s t i o n .

28

29 FURTHER V O I R D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

30 BY M R . GOLDEN:

31 Q. One l a s t q u e s t i o n , c o u l d you impose

32 the death p e n a l t y again without knowing a l l

 t h e d e t a i l s o n e way or the o t h e r , g o o d a n d

bad, on somebody who killed somebody during a

b u r g l a r y o r a robbery or a r a p e ?

4 A. (By M s . E d w a r d s ) C o u l d I i m p o s e t h a t ?

5 On t h e b u r g l a r y ?

6 Q. S o m e o n e who i n t e n t i o n a l l y killed

7 somebody - -

8 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) U h - h u h .
9 Q. - - during a robbery, rape, burglary?
10 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

11 MR. GOLDEN: T h a n k you.

1'2 THE COURT: Any f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n i n g by

13 the State?

1 4 MR. THOMPSON: Not a t t h i s t i m e ,

15 Your Honor.

16 THE COURT: All right. Thank you,

17 ma'am. You may r e t u r n t o C o u r t r o o m H, a n d we

18 w i l l c a l l you b a c k s h o r t l y .

19 (Whereupon the prospective juror was excused

20 f r o m the courtroom.)

.21 MR. THOMPSON: Your H o n o r , Ms. E d w a r d s

22 i s o u t o f the c o u r t r o o m . At t h i s t i m e , the

23 S t a t e w o u l d move f o r a c h a l l e n g e f o r c a u s e as

24 t o Ms. Edwards. We w o u l d b a s e o u r c a u s e on

25 h e r e n t i r e a n s w e r s in the voir d i r e

26 e x a m i n a t i o n , b o t h the r e g u l a r v o i r d i r e

27 e x a m i n a t i o n a s w e l l a s h e r i n d i v i d u a l answers.

28 W e w o u l d c i t e S t a t e v. T a t e which was a case

29 i n the W i t h e r s p o o n s i t u a t i o n w h e r e t h e d e a t h

30 penalty was a f f i r m e d a n d w h e r e a j u r o r , the

31 s i t u a t i o n w a s raised w h e r e p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r s

32 were equivocal as to whether they could

 . --. -..

. i
', i
c c

actually impose the d e a t h p e n a l t y o r not. That

is S t a t e v . T a t e , 851 S o . 2d. 9 2 1 .
I
3 Your Honor, in t h e e a r l i e r r o u n d s o f

4 voir d i r e ; Ms. Edwards had i n d i c a t e d t h a t she

was a five, and upon being questioned, she

indicated that she would .automatically vote

for life n o matter what t h e e v i d e n c e was that

the State presented. S h e h a d i n d i c a t e d that

9 s h e had longstanding moral a n d r e l i g i o u s ,

10 especially religious, beliefs against the

11 d e a t h penalty. S h e affirmed t h a t i n t h e

12 ,individual voir d i r e when p r e s s e d , a n d I

13 b e l i e v e t h e situation c o u l d p l a y o u t , I ' m

14 getting the feeling that she doesn't want to

15 o f f e n d a district court judge by s t a t i n g , f ' m

16 n o t going to follow his i n s t r u c t i o n s , I'll d o

17 whatever he tells m e to, which I t h i n k would

18 be common for some j u r o r s to a n s w e r in that

19 manner as to not o f f e n d the p r e s i d i n g judge.

20 And I believe her a n s w e r s in t h e i r totality

21 r e f l e c t a substantial i m p a i r m e n t i n her

22 ability to consider the d e a t h p e n a l t y i n this

23 c a s e which I believe w o u l d g i v e r i s e for a

24 c h a l l e n g e for cause. For t h o s e r e a s o n s ,

25 Your Honor, we would move a s s u c h .

26 MR. G O L D E N : Your H o n o r , i n i t i a l l y , I

27 w o u l d agree with Mr. Thompson t h a t M s . Edwards

28 d i d rate herself has a five, w o u l d h a v e

29 d i f f i c u l t y , perhaps even s u b s t a n t i a l

30 d i f f i c u l t y , imposing a d e a t h s e n t e n c e . And

31 when we questioned her s e p a r a t e l y , at first

32 s h e was consistent with t h a t v i e w , t h e n she

 s t a r t e d e q u i v o c a t i n g , s a y i n g w e l l , in s o m e

i n s t a n c e s and then, well, b u t I s t i l l h a v e

some scruples against it, personal scruples,

r e l i g i o u s scruples, a n d t h e n a t t h e very e n d

of my questioning, s h e said y e s , I could

6 i m p o s e it, c o u l d impose i t in c e r t a i n c a s e s .

7 A n d Mr. Thompson a s k e d h e r f u r t h e r a n d s h e was

8 c l e a r t h a t s h e in t h e l a s t a n s w e r s t o

9 Mr. T h o m p s o n t h a t s h e c e r t a i n l y c o u l d i m p o s e

10 it in the right cases, And the class of cases

11 in which s h e affirmed that she c o u l d i m p o s e i t

12 began to broaden, and finally, when I came

13 back to ask her that final question, she did

14 c o n f i r m t h a t s h e c o u l d i m p o s e i t e v e n in t h e

15 case at the bar during a killing during a

16 robbery, rape, or b u r g l a r y ; i n o t h e r w o r d s ,
17 killing with an underlying felony. And h e r

18 l a s t a n s w e r was very c l e a r , concise a n d

19 unequivocal, and I believe her body language

20 shows that she said it with conviction. So i f

21 y o u l o o k a t h e r a n s w e r s i n i t i a l l y , s h e would

22 h a v e b e e n a four- and- a- half o r f i v e , b u t if

23 you l o o k h e r a n s w e r a t t h e e n d , I b e l i e v e t h a t

24 she has rehabilitated herself and that she can

25 i m p o s e the d e a t h p e n a l t y , a n d s h e m a d e i t

26 clear that she could impose it for the kind of

27 o f f e n s e t h a t h a p p e n e d in t h i s p a r t i c u l a r c a s e .

28 MR. THOMPSON: Your H o n o r , o n c e again,

29 I d r a w back t o h e r o r i g i n a l a n s w e r s , a n d I

30 b e l i e v e the d i s t r i c t c o u r t c o u l d t a k e n o t i c e

31 o f h e r d e m e a n o r in t h e way s h e w a s answering

32 her questions here between the defense and I

186
5902'
 1 in this individual session of voir dire. It
2 was almost a resignation o f , y e s , I will

3 f o l l o w the district court's instructions, o r

4 whatever Mr. Golden asks, y e s , I'll consider

I 5 it. She used the words 1'1'11 c o n s i d e r it,"

6 but then she would go back to the phrases of
7 my religious beliefs, I ' v e g r o w n up my whole

8 l i f e against the death penalty, a n d a s s h e

I

9 indicated in her earlier questions, s h e was

10 against the death penalty and she rated

11 herself a five and that s h e i n d i c a t e d t h a t she

12 would be substantially impaired f r o m the

13 making the death penalty a s e r i o u s o p t i o n o r

1 4 consideration. For these r e a s o n s , Your H o n o r ,

15 I believe this situation is s i m i l a r to the

16 case c i t e d in S t a t e v . T a t e where the district

17 c o u r t i s faced with a juror w h o i s

18 equivocating a s to her ability to f o l l o w the

19 relation to whether s h e c o u l d c o n s i d e r the

20 death penalty. F o r this reason, Y o u r Honor, I

21 believe it would appropriate for the district

22 c o u r t and i t would be i n the d i s t r i c t c o u r t ' s

23 discretion t o grant our challenge f o r cause

24 b a s e d on her inability to f o l l o w the l a w in

25 t h i s situation.

26 MR. G O L D E N : Your Honor, t h e r e is one

27 thing t h a t she d i d make clear w a s h e r ability

28 to follow the law. That's when s h e changed

29 her entire position when I s a i d i f I were to

30 tell you o r the judge were to t e l l you i t was

31 your d u t y to consider i t and s h e s a i d o f

32 c o u r s e and that's when s h e c o m p l e t e l y turned

187
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 i m p o s i n g a d e a t h penalty. On reexamination,

she appeared to change her mind, stating that

s h e c o u l d apply the d e a t h p e n a l t y , so b a s e d

u p o n her responses, I will deny the State's

challenge for cause.
N o t e the S t a t e ' s o b j e c t i o n t o the

C o u r t ' s ruling for the record.

MR. GOLDEN: Your Honor, we have no

p r o s p e c t i v e jurors that we wish to question

outside the presence of others.
MR. T H O M P S O N : N o r do w e , Y o u r Honor.

THE COURT: We will be in recess for

five minutes.
(Whereupon a short recess was t a k e n . )
'(Whereupon t h e d e f e n d a n t w a s p r e s e n t w i t h

counsel. )

THE COURT: D o you request any

i n d i v i d u a l voir d i r e b y t h e S t a t e ?

MR. THOMPSON: N o t h i n g by t h e S t a t e ,

Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. The defense.

MR. G O L D E N : None by the defense,

Your Honor.

THE COURT: First of all, we can send

h o m e Mr. O l a g u e a n d M s . S n e l l i n g . T h e n we

w i l l n e e d everybody e l s e .

I ( W h e r e u p o n t h e venire p a n e l w a s s e a t e d in t h e

courtroom.)

THE COURT: T h a n k y o u a g a i n so much f o r

your patience. We are now ready to continue

with v o i r d i r e examination.

Is the d e f e n s e r e a d y t o p r o c e e d .

189
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 MR. G O L D E N : Y e s , Your Honor. T h a n k

you.

(Whereupon a Powerpoint presentation prepared

b y t h e D e f e n s e was d i s p l a y e d t o t h e v e n i r e

panel. )

VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

BY MR. G O L D E N :

Q. G o o d afternoon. I'm A l a n G o l d e n . I

a l o n g with D a v i d McClatchey and

M i c h e l l e AndrePont a n d G l e n G a r r e t , t h e l a s t

t w o n o t b e i n g here, we r e p r e s e n t F e l t o n D o r s e y

w h o i s c h a r g e d with f i r s t d e g r e e m u r d e r . I

say "charged" because that's all it i s a t t h i s

time. A n d it m i g h t s e e m k i n d of s t r a n g e that

we a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y w h e n w e

haven't even had a trial yet, but the reason

why w e ' r e going t h r o u g h t h i s w h o l e p r o c e s s ,

t h i s w h o l e exercise, i s t o t r y t o f i n d j u r o r s

w h o c a n i m p a r t i a l l y a n d f a i r l y try t h i s c a s e .

W e c a l l t h i s voir d i r e w h i c h m e a n s

" t o s e e a n d t o speak." T h o s e a r e F r e n c h w o r d s .

A n d t h i s i s t h e c h a n c e w h e r e we c a n t a l k w i t h

o n e another. You c a n t a l k t o u s , t o o , a n d a s k

us questions. In fact, t h i s w i l l b e t h e o n l y

time y o u g e t t o a s k us q u e s t i o n s b e c a u s e o n c e

the t r i a l s t a r t s , it i s t o o late. If you have

a c o n c e r n o r a n i s s u e or a p r o b l e m , n o w i s t h e

t i m e t o e x p r e s s i t b e c a u s e o n c e we s t a r t , o n c e

t h e t r i a l s t a r t s , it's t o o late.

Let me e x p l a i n t h e p u r p o s e of v o i r

d i r e w h i c h i s jury p r o c e s s . It is essentially
 --.
.

1 t o find a jury that can fairly try t h i s case.

2 It's that simple. And to do that, we have t o

3 find out kind of the negative, find out if

I
I 4 there i s anything that would prevent you from

being a b l e to fairly t r y t h i s c a s e . And

that's why we have been asking you questions

about sequestration, whether you had any prior

knowledge about the case and your views on

capital punishment. That's the main thing

10 because this i s a c a p i t a l murder c a s e , w e w a n t

11 to know your attitudes about the death

12 penalty.

13 Some of you might be perfect jurors

14 for another kind of case, a robbery case or a

15 t h e f t case, but t h i s , as w e know, i t ' s an

16 e m o t i o n a l l y charged offense because it

17 involves the death penalty. And that's why we

18 are probing and asking these questions. And

19 related to that i s whether you can accept and

20 apply the law related to capital punishment.

21 And, finally, your knowledge o r

22 information about the case. Again, we don't

23 mean to be too probing or get too personal,

24 sometimes we have to. If we think it will .

25 affect the case, i t ' s our obligation t o d o

26 that. At this point, we only expect one thing

27 from you: Honesty. We don't want you to

28 necessarily be fair. We d o n ' t want you t o

29 say, you know, look, I know it's fair t o say

30 this, so I'm going to say that because I want

31 to be a fair person - - I think we all d o - - at

32 this point, we don't care what your feelings

191
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 I

I 1 are. We don't c a r e h o w the extreme your views

~

2 i a r e , w h e t h e r you are totally a g a i n s t c a p i t a l

3 p u n i s h m e n t o r totally f o r i t , n o m a t t e r h o w
I

4 e x t r e m e i t i s o r how u n u s u a l i t i s , we n e e d t o

5 k n o w i t even i f i t ' s n o t t h e s o c i a l l y
6 a c c e p t a b l e thing t o say or p o l i t i c a l l y c o r r e c t
I
I

I
7 o r it s e e m s unfair. We've j u s t g o t t o k n o w

8 i t , a n d i t ' s okay t o h a v e a view.

9 W e c a n ' t ask you t o c o m e i n t o t h i s

10 c o u r t r o o m and s a y , y o u k n o w , I'll l e a v e my
11 views b e h i n d . We are n o t r o b o t s . We are

12 human b e i n g s , a n d we c a n ' t d o t h a t .

13 L e t me explain the r o l e of t h e

14 parties here to familiarize yourselves with

15 what's going o n h e r e . We h a v e t h e j u d g e who

16 is the n e u t r a l r e f e r e e , ' a n d h i s j o b i s t o m a k e
17 r u l i n g s on the law a n d t o g i v e y o u t h e l a w .

18 T h e l a w w i l l only c o m e from h i m . U n l i k e a

19 r e f e r e e in a s p o r t i n g e v e n t , the j u d g e d o e s n ' t

20 b l o w t h e whistle u n l e s s we a s k h i m t o d o t h a t .

21 So t h a t m e a n s t h a t we w i l l o b j e c t , we w i l l a s k

22 t o a p p r o a c h the B e n c h a n d a s k f o r a r u l i n g o n

23 something. Then he gets involved and he will

24 make a decision.

25 T h e p r o s e c u t o r , or the S t a t e , t h e i r

26 job is to present evidence favorable to the

27 State. They are a n advocate f o r t h e S t a t e .

28 T h a t means, they a r e g o i n g t o t r y t o p u t o n

29 e v i d e n c e - - and they a r e s u p p o s e d t o p u t o n

30 e v i d e n c e - - t o p r o v e the g u i l t of Mr. D o r s e y

31 beyond a reasonable doubt. I expect them to

32 d o that. If they are not d o i n g i t , t h e y a r e

 --.

I
1 not doing their j o b . They a r e going to put o n
I
I

2 whatever evidence they t h i n k that they have t o

3 prove g u i l t beyond a r e a s o n a b l e doubt. They

4 a r e n ' t g o i n g t o p u t on any e v i d e n c e t o p r o v e

5 innocence o r t h a t raises reasonable doubt. In

6 t h e c o n t e x t of a penalty phase, t h e i r j o b --

7 l e t m e be f r a n k a b o u t i t - - i s t o p u t on

8 evidence t o j u s t i f y the death penalty. They

9 a r e g o i n g t o p u t on a l l t h e bad e v i d e n c e , all

10 the aggravating circumstances that

11 Mr. Thomp son t a l k e d a b o u t . T h a t i s their j o b .

12 T h e i r j o b i s to seek the death p e n a l t y . If

13 they didn't do t h a t , t h e y w o u l d n ' t be d o i n g

14 their job.

15 A s defense counsel f o r Mr. Dorsey,

16 our j o b i s to, i n the guilt phase, i s put o n
17 e v i d e n c e of innocence o r p u t on e v i d e n c e t h a t

18 challenges the evidence of guilt; i n other

19 words, t o raise a reasonable doubt. In the

20 p e n a l t y phase, o u r j o b i s t o p u t on m i t i g a t i n g

21 evidence, evidence t h a t j u s t i f i e s a l i f e

22 sentence. And t h a t i s o u r j o b a n d w e a r e

23 going t o do t h a t i f that s h o u l d come a b o u t .

24 Your j o b i n t h i s k i n d o f case i s

25 g o i n g t o be u n i q u e . Unlike any o t h e r case,

26 t h i s i s t h e only kind of case where you c o u l d

27 p o s s i b l y decide t h e s e n t e n c e , but ordinarily

28 y o u r j o b w o u l d be t o f i n d o u t w h a t ' s b e e n

29 proved, has the State proven g u i l t beyond a

30 reasonable doubt o r have they not. And i n t h e

31 rare case where t h e d e f e n d a n t has been found

32 g u i l t y of f i r s t degree murder, your j o b would

I
 1 t h e n b e t o d e c i d e the s e n t e n c e .

2 T h e r e are o n l y t w o o f f e n s e s i n t h e

3 s t a t e w h e r e you c a n be - - w h e r e s o m e b o d y c a n

be exposed to the death penalty. One is first

d e g r e e m u r d e r - - by t h e way, d o e s a n y o n e know
what t h e o t h e r one is?

A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) A g g r a v a t e d r a p e .

Q. T h a t i s n o longer t h e case.

9 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) O k a y .

10 Q. But t h e r e i s o n e m o r e l e f t . This is

11 o n e o f t h o s e t h a t ' s k i n d o f in t h e b a c k o f t h e

12 book.

13 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) (No response.)

14 A. ( B y Ms. Thornton) (No r e s p o n s e . )

15 A. (By Ms. Edwards) (No response.)

16 A. (By Mr. Walker) (No response.)

17 A. (By M s . Hicks) (No response.)

18 A. '(By Ms. D i x o n ) ( N o response.)

19 A. (By Mr. Walters) (No r e s p o n s e . )

20 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

21 A. (By Mr. Jefferson) (No response.)

22 A. ( B y M s . Clay) (No response.)

23 A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) ( N o response.)

24 Q. Treason. A l t h o u g h I c a n ' t imagine.

25 h o w you c o u l d c o m m i t t r e a s o n a g a i n s t t h e

26 State.

27 Next, I want t o t a l k a b o u t t h e

28 c a p i t a l t r i a l procedure. I l i k e to u s e t h e

29 analogy of two bridges. We have two bridges

30 t h a t n e e d t o b e crossed. The first bridge is

31 the regular trial. When I s a y " r e g u l a r

32 trial,'' b e c a u s e i t ' s j u s t like any t r i a l for a

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1 I
I degree murder. Then we would have a s e c o n d
E3
t r i a l , w e would come to the second b r i d g e

known a s the penalty phase. And the s a m e jury

t h a t decided guilt o r innocence would decide

the appropriate sentence. So there is a

possibility o f two trials, only o n e j u r y

I ua
, selection process, and t h a t ' s why w e a r e

discussing the death penalty now.

So if you're wondering why are w e

discussing this, why are we putting the cart

before t h e horse, t h i s i s why. It's k i n d of
like the Boy Scout motto. Who k n o w s the

Boy Scout motto?

A. (By Mr. Natale) Be prepared.

Q. Mr. Natale.

A. (By Mr. N a t a l e ) B e prepared.

Q. Be prepared.

A. (By Mr. Natale) I w a s n ' t a Boy Scout.

Q. So you have to b e prepared even f o r

the eventuality. And the important thing I

want to emphasize at this p o i n t i s t h a t the

mere fact that we are discussing the

possibility of the death penalty d o e s n ' t mean

that Mr. Dorsey i s necessarily g u i l t y o f a n y

crime, much less first degree murder.

Does everybody understand t h a t ? Does

anybody have any questions at t h i s p o i n t ?

A. (By Mr. Natale) (No response.)

A. (By Ms. Thornton) (No response.)

A. (By Ms. Edwards) (No response.)

A. (By Mr. Walker) (No response.)

A. (By M s . Hicks) ( N o response.)

196
 1 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

2 A. (By Mr. Walters) (No response.)

3 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

4 A. (By M r . Jefferson) ( N o response.)

5 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

6 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o response.)

8
Q. Good. T h e n I'll move o n .

N o w , we a r e s t i l l t a l k i n g a b o u t t h e
I
9

10
capital t r i a l procedure. If -- and

b i g ,'if" - - the penalty p h a s e i s r e a c h e d , i t

t h i s is a
I
11 means certain things have happened. It means

12 you d i d c o n v i c t M r . Dorsey o f f i r s t d e g r e e

13 murder. And a g a i n we a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t i n
14 h y p o t h e t i c a l right now, " i f . " And if y o u d i d

15

16
c o n v i c t h i m of f i r s t d e g r e e m u r d e r , i t also

means that this is not a case where he did it

I
17 in s e l f - d e f e n s e .

18 M r . N a t a l e , if h e c o m m i t t e d a m u r d e r

19 in s e l f - d e f e n s e , i t would what?

20 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) (No response.)

21 Q. W h a t s h o u l d the v e r d i c t b e ?

22 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) If i t ' s s e l f - d e f e n s e ,

23 not guilty.

24 Q. T h a t ' s right. So i t ' s n o t a c a s e

25 w h e r e h e k i l l e d in self- defense. It's not a

26 c a s e w h e r e h e w a s legally i n t o x i c a t e d o r

27 i n s a n e b e c a u s e if h e w a s i n s a n e , h e w o u l d b e

28 n o t g u i l t y b y reason of i n s a n i t y . If he was

29 i n t o x i c a t e d , it might b e a m a n s l a u g h t e r o r

30 s e c o n d d e g r e e , or h e k i l l e d in t h e h e a t o f

31 blood due to provocation.

32 Ms. D i x o n , if s o m e o n e k i l l s i n t h e

197
59i3
 1 h e a t o f b l o o d o f p r o v o c a t i o n , w h a t s h o u l d the

2 verdict be? Do you h a v e any i d e a ?

3 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Manslaughter.

4 Q. T h a t ' s right, i t w o u l d b e a

5 manslaughter.

6 And it's not a case where it w a s

a c c i d e n t a l o r h e d i d n ' t mean it. I f we h a v e

r e a c h e d 'the penalty p h a s e , i t i s b e c a u s e i t i s

a c a s e where Mr. Dorsey m e a n t t o k i l l o r

10 inflict great b o d i l y harm. In the law, we

11 c a l l t h a t an i n t e n t i o n a l killing. He m e a n t to
12 do it.

13 D o e s a n y b o d y h a v e any q u e s t i o n s a b o u t

14 that?
15 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) (No r e s p o n s e . )
16 A. (By Ms. Thornton) (No response.)

17 A. (By Ms. Edwards) (No response.)

.18 A. (By Mr. Walker) (No response.)

19 A. (By M s . Hicks) (No response.)

20 A. (By Ms. Dixon) (No response.)

21 A. (By Mr. W a l t e r s ) (No response.)

22 A. ( B y M s . S n e l l i n g ) ( N o response.)

23 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

24 A. (By Ms. Clay) (No response.)

25 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

26 Q. Does everybody understand it? If

27 w o u l d you a n s w e r , yes. The court reporter has

28 t r o u b l e recording head nods.

29 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

30 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

31 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

32 A. ( B y 'Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

,
 _-. -.
l, . I i

A. ( B y Ms. Hicks) Yes.

A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

A. (By M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes

4 A. (BY M S . Snelling) Yes

I
5 A. ( B y Mr. J,efferson) Yes.

6 A. ( B y M s . Clay) Y e s

7 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.

9
Q. In t h e future we m i g h t h a v e b e t t e r

d e v i c e s , b u t f o r now, y o u h a v e t o s p e a k u p .
I
10 Is there anyone who doesn't understand this? I
11 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) (No response.)

12 A. (By Ms. T h o r n t o n ) (No response.)

13 A. (By Ms. E d w a r d s ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

14 A. (By Mr. Walker) (No response.)

15 A. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) ( N o response.)

16 A. (By Ms. Dixon) (No response.)

17 A. (By Mr. Walters) (No response.)

18 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o response.)

19 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

20 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

21 A. (By M r . T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

22 Q. Is t h e r e a n y o n e w h o d i s a g r e e s w i t h

23 this?

24 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) No.

25 Q. T h a n k you.

26 A t a penalty p h a s e , y o u r t a s k w o u l d

27 b e t o d e c i d e w h a t the a p p r o p r i a t e s e n t e n c e is.

28 A n d a g a i n , we are t a l k i n g a b o u t a t e r r i b l e

29 c r i m e , t h e m o s t t e r r i b l e c r i m e p o s s i b l e , the

30 i n t e n t i o n a l k i l l i n g o f a human b e i n g d u r i n g a

31 robbery, a rape, a kidnapping, a major felony,

32 e s s e n t i a l l y , or where he meant t o k i l l m o r e
than o n e p e r s o n . It doesn't get any worse.

Is t h e r e a n y o n e h e r e t h a t t h i n k s that

t h e r e i s s u c h a thing as a g o o d m u r d e r ?

A. (By Mr. Natale) (No response.)

A. ( B y Ms. Thornton) (No r e s p o n s e . )
A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) (No response.)

A. (By Ms. H i c k s ) (No response.)

A. (By Ms. D i x o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. (By Mr. Walters) (No response.)

A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Ms. Clay) (No response.)

A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) (No response.)

Q. Is t h e r e a n y o n e h e r e w h o d o e s n ' t

think that all murders are terrible?

A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) (No response.)

A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )
A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) ( N o response.)

A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. (By M s . S n e l l i n g ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o response.)

A. (By Ms. Clay) (No response.)

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

Q. Okay. A n d your t a s k w o u l d b e t o

c h o o s e b e t w e e n t h e t w o s e v e r e s t p e n a l t i e s the

law has to offer. I t c o m e s from o u r

legislature and our legislature, our

representatives, decided that there should be

200
5916
 1 t w o p o s s i b l e penalties. One is life
. .

2 , i m p r i s o n m e n t a t hard l a b o r w i t h o u t t h e b e n e f i t

3 o f p a r o l e , o r , a s Mr. T h o m p s o n h a s s a i d ,

4 without the possibility of parole which means

5 t h e person w o u l d d i e in prison. So that's

6 l i f e , h a r d l a b o r , u n t i l t h e p e r s o n essentially

7 dies. W e c a n a g r e e on that.

.8 The other option is death, and in

9 t h i s s t a t e , i t ' s by l e t h a l i n j e c t i o n . So w e

10 h a v e t h e t w o s e v e r e s t p e n a l t i e s f o r t h e worst

11 crime.

12 A n d the l a w r e q u i r e s y o u i n

13 d e t e r m i n i n g this t o c o n s i d e r b o t h a g g r a v a t i n g

14 circumstances and mitigating circumstances.

15 B e c a u s e of t h a t , you will hear, s h o u l d you

16 h a v e t h e penalty p h a s e , t h e p r e s e n t a t i o n of

17 both aggravating circumstances and mitigating

18 circumstances. The State will present the

19 aggravating circumstances, and the defense

(
20 will present mitigating circumstances.

21 And you a l r e a d y h a v e h e a r d w h a t

22 s o m e o f them are by e x a m p l e , a l t h o u g h y o u

23 haven't heard a definition of those. A n d the

24 r e a s o n f o r t h a t is, they h e l p y o u d i s t i n g u i s h

25 t h e m o s t s e v e r e from the l e a s t s e v e r e m u r d e r .

26 A g a i n , a l l m u r d e r s are t e r r i b l e , we a l l a g r e e

27 on t h a t , right?

28 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

29 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

30 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

31 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

32 A. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) Yes.
I 1 A. (By Ms. Dixon) Yes.

2 A. (By Mr. W a l t e r s ) Yes.

3 A. (By Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

4 A. ( B y Mr. Jefferson) Yes.

5 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

6 A. ( B y Mr. Thomas). Yes.

7 Q. B u t e v e n a m o n g the t e r r i b l e c r i m e s ,

8 some a r e w o r s e than others. C a n w e a l l a g r e e

9 on t h a t ?

10 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

11 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

12 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

13 A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.
14 A. ( B y Ms. Hicks) Yes.

15 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

16 A. ( B y Mr. Walters) Yes.

17 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l 1 i n g ) Y e s .

18 A. ( B y M r . Jefferson) Yes.

19 A. (By Ms. Clay) Yes.

20 A. (By Mr. Thomas) Y e s .

21 Q. S o we have t o have some mechanism to

22 d i s t i n g u i s h b e t w e e n them; o t h e r w i s e , e i t h e r

23 e v e r y b o d y w o u l d g e t the d e a t h p e n a l t y o r

24 everybody would get life imprisonment. We

25 h a v e t o h a v e s o m e way o f d i f f e r e n t i a t i n g t h e m .

26 D o a l l of y o u a g r e e with t h a t ?

27 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

28 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

29 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

30 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

31 A. ( B y M s . Hicks) Yes.

32 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.
 1 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Yes.

2 A. (By Ms. Snelling) Y e s .

3 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

4 A. ( B y Ms. Clay) Yes.

5 A. (By M r . T h o m a s ) Y e s .

6 Q. So what is an aggravating
7 circumstance? I think the b e s t d e f i n i t i o n i s

8 simply a factor that makes the offense more

9 severe.

A mitigating factor, which would be

11 the f l i p s i d e of the coin, w o u l d be a factor

12 t h a t m a k e s t h e o f f e n s e what?

13 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) L e s s s e v e r e .

14 A. (By Ms. Thornton) Less.

15 A. ( B y Ms. Edwards) Less severe.

16 A. (By Mr. Walker) Less severe.

17 A. ( B y M s . Hicks) L e s s s e v e r e .

18 A. (By M s . D i x o n ) L e s s s e v e r e .

19 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) L e s s s e v e r e .

20 A. (By Ms. Snelling) Less severe.

21 A. (By Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) L e s s s e v e r e .

22 A. (By M s . C l a y ) L e s s s e v e r e .

23 A. (By M r . T h o m a s ) L e s s s e v e r e .

24 Q. It's still terrible, but it's less

25 severe. And the most i m p o r t a n t t h i n g y o u n e e d

26 t o r e m e m b e r a b o u t it i s , I think M r . T h o m p s Q n

27 e x p l a i n e d i t , they a r e n o t d e f e n s e s and- t h e y

28 a r e n o t - - what? - - e x c u s e s . They are not

29 excuses. They don't excuse conduct.

30 C a n anybody t h i n k of an e x a m p l e of

31 an a g g r a v a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e ? I ' l l s t a r t with

32 y o u , M r . Walker.
I
 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) R i g h t o f f h a n d , I

2 can't.

3 Q. Ms. C l a y .
4 A. (By Ms. Clay) T h a t makes i t more
severe?

6 Q. Yeah.

7 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) I g u e s s if, I d o n ' t

8 k n o w , if h e k i l l e d like t w e n t y p e o p l e ? I d o n ' t

9 know.

-10 Q. The number of people.

11 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yeah.

Q. T h a t ' s one.

13 Mr. Natale, w e will start o n your

1 4 s i d e , g o b a c k t o y o u r side.

15 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) P r o b a b l y t h e m e t h o d

16 in w h i c h an i n d i v i d u a l was k i l l e d .

17 Q. W h e n you s a y the " m e t h o d " - -

18 A. (By M r . N a t a l e ) W a s t h e r e t o r t u r e

19 i n v o l v e d , maybe p r o l o n g e d agony.

20 Q. O k a y . So the a m o u n t o f s u f f e r i n g t h a t

2 1 was c a u s e d t o the victim, whether t h e r e w a s

22 t o r t u r e or the numbers. T h o s e a r e very g o o d

23 aggravating circumstances, by the way.

24 I t h i n k , s o m e b o d y u s e d the w o r d

25 " h e i n o u s . " W a s t h a t you, Mr. W a l t e r s ?

26 A. ( B y Mr. Walters) Yes.

27 Q. And t h a t ' s a g o o d t e r m . Was it

28 heinous. W a s t h e r e torture. Was there

29' p r o l o n g e d s u f f e r i n g involved. W e r e t h e r e

30 multiple victims involved. Those are good

3 1 aggravating circumstance.

32 C a n anybody think o f any m i t i g a t i n g

 1 circumstances?

2 A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) If i t w a s w h a t t h e

p r o s e c u t i o n g a v e where it might h a v e b e e n a n

eighteen-year-old who h a d been in a box all

his l i f e a n d d i d n ' t k n o w t h e d i f f e r e n c e
b e t w e e n r i g h t a n d wrong.

7 Q. Not k n o w i n g the d i f f e r e n c e b e t w e e n

8 r i g h t a n d w r o n g . Of c o u r s e , i f s o m e b o d y d i d n ' t

9 fully know the d i f f e r e n c e b e t w e e n right a n d

10 wrong, I think t h a t might c o m e u n d e r i n s a n i t y ,

11 but that was kind of an extreme example.

12 But l e t me make it a l i t t l e b i t l e s s

13 extreme. Let's say instead of the parent

14 p u t t i n g him in this p h y s i c a l box, t h e p a r e n t s

15 p u t h i m in an e m o t i o n a l b o x , t h r o u g h n e g l e c t ,

16 through abuse, being a terrible role model,

17 t e a c h i n g him a l i f e of c r i m e , t e a c h i n g h i m t o

18 t a k e a d v a n t a g e of o t h e r p e o p l e , t e a c h i n g h i m

19 n o t t o h a v e e m p a t h y f o r others. Could you

20 consider those kinds of less physical things,

21 b u t very r e a l t h i n g s t o p e o p l e a s a m i t i g a t i n g

22 circumstance? The emotional b o x .

23 Ms. Clay.

24 A. ( B y M s . C l a y ) O h , I c a n see t h a t

25 because emotional abuse is just as damaging as

26 physical abusing.

27 Q. So e m o t i o n a l d a m a g e w o u l d b e a n

28 important mitigating circumstance to y o u ?

29 A. ( B y M s . C l a y ) Yes.

30 Q. Would that be important to anyone

3 1 else?

32 Mr. Walker, would that be important

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 Q. Do they m a k e g o o d d e c i s i o n s ? Do they
exercise good judgment?

A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) At f i r s t , p r o b a b l y n o t ,

but since they have a stable home, i t ' s gotten

~
5 1 better.
Q. S o m e p e o p l e w h o g r o w u p in a v e r y b a d

1 e n v i r o n m e n t can b e s a v e d i f t h e y l a t e r g e t

stability and gets someone who cares?

I
9 A. (By Ms. C l a y ) Yes.
I 10 A. ( B y Mr. Jefferson) It w o u l d be r i g h t

11 t h e r e in the back o f your heed i f y o u w a s

12 b r o u g h t u p l i k e that.

I 13 Q. Especially at a young age?

14 A. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

I
15 Q. I think p s y c h o l o g i s t s c a l l t h o s e the
I
I 16 f o r m a t i v e y e a r s , that the worst a b u s e i s t h e
I
I

17 a b u s e t h a t o n e g e t s a t the f o r m a t i v e y e a r s ; i s

18 t h a t w h a t you a r e r e f e r r i n g t o ?

19 A. ( B y M r . Jefferson) Yes.

20 Q. You think i t ' s h a r d t o u n d o s o m e o f

21 that kind of abuse?

22 A. (By Mr. Jefferson) I don't know

23 p e r s o n a l l y , but I've h e a r d o f it.

24 Q. I hope not personally. Of course,

25 a n o t h e r k i n d o f abuse i s g r o w i n g in a n a r e a of

26 trauma, experiencing a lot of trauma in your

27 l i f e , e s p e c i a l l y , again, a t t h e f o r m a t i v e

28 years.

29 Mr. N a t a l e , c o u l d y o u c o n s i d e r

30 s o m e t h i n g l i k e t h a t , emotional a b u s e , t r a u m a ,

31 e s p e c i a l l y a t h e f o r m a t i v e y e a r s of a c h i l d ?

32 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) In t h e p e n a l t y p h a s e ?
 Q. L e t me ask another question. Do y o u

t h i n k t h a t -- w e l l , l e t m e g i v e you a n o t h e r

example of an aggravating and a m i t i g a t i n g

circumstance, a n d this touches upon the

question of, c a n two p e o p l e c o m m i t t h e same

e x a c t crime, but because of t h e i r backgrounds

7 be e n t i t l e d t o be t r e a t e d d i f f e r e n t l y . And

8 before I g i v e you t h a t q u e s t i o n i n a vacuum,

9 let me give you a n example. Suppose in your

10 neighborhood, t h e r e i s t h i s wonderful dog, a

11

12
I g o l d e n Lab - - e v e r y b o d y l o v e s L a b s ,

a n d you see a t w e l v e - y e a r - o l d o r a
r i g h t ? --

13 t h i r t e e n - y e a r - o l d neighborhood boy go o v e r t o

14

15
I the

ribs.
dog a n d kick t h e dog v e r y hard i n

You w o u l d t h i n k t h a t ' s t e r r i b l e ,
the

right?

16 Would a l l o f you want t o p u n i s h t h a t b o y ?

17 A. (By M r . Natale) Yes.

18 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

19 A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes.

20 A. (By M r . Walker) Yes.

21 A. (By M s . Hicks) Yes.

22 A. (By M s . Dixon) Yes.

23 A. (By M r . Walters) Y e s .

24 A. (By M s . Snelling) Yes.

25 A. (By M r . Jefferson) Yes.

26 A. (By M s . C l a y ) Yes.

27 A. (By M r . Thomas) Y e s .

28 Q. What w o u l d you w a n t t o know a b o u t

29 E e f o r e d e c i d i n g on t h e p u n i s h m e n t ?

30 Ms. Hicks.

31 A. (By M s . Hicks) W e l l , what w a s going

32 on a t home. What would c a u s e h i m t o want t o

 1 ~ do that.

2 Q. A l l right. Ms. D i x o n , what w o u l d you

3 w a n t t o know?.

4 A. (By Ms. D i x o n ) Why did he k i c k the

5 dog.

6 Q. You would b o t h want t o k n o w why h e

7 d i d it?

8 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

9 A. (By M s . H i c k s ) Yes.

10 Q. W h a t a b o u t t h e rest o f y o u ?

11 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) T h e sam.

12 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) T h e s a m .

13 A. (By Ms. E d w a r d s ) The s a m e .

14 A. (By Mr. Walker) Same.

15 A. (By Mr. Walters) The same.

16 A. (By M s . S n e l l i n g ) T h e same.

17 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) T h e s a m e .

18 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) T h e s a m e .

19 A. (By Mr. Thomas) The same.

20 Q. M r . Walters, w o u l d i t m a k e a

21 d i f f e r e n c e i f you knew the b o y d i d i t t o o t h e r

22 animals because he enjoyed watching animals

23 s u f f e r ; h e d i d it for p l e a s u r e ?

24 A. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) L e t ' s j u s t s a y if i t

25 was my son and he kicked a dog and I found out

26 why a n d the c i r c u m s t a n c e s w e r e s o m e t h i n g t h a t

27 I h a d t a u g h t h i m wrong o r s o m e t h i n g , I w o u l d

28 h a v e t o - - the punishment I g a v e h i m w o u l d b e

29 d e p e n d e n t u p o n why he h a d t h a t a c t i o n .

30 Q. Mr. S n e l l i n g , if the b o y d i d i t

31 b e c a u s e h e was j u s t m e a n a n d s a d i s t i c , h e d i d

32 it for pleasure.

210
 I A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Me?
Q. I ' m s o r r y , Mr. J e f f e r s o n . I misread

the chart. Us l a w y e r s m a k e l o t s o f m i s t a k e s .

A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) W h a t w a s t h e

5 question again?

6 Q. The b o y k i c k i n g the d o g , y o u f o u n d

7 ' o u t t h a t h e d i d it b e c a u s e h e e n j o y e d

8 i n f l i c t i n g p a i n on dogs, h u r t i n g a n i m a l s ,

9 would your punishment tend to be more severe?

10 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) L i k e what he s a i d ,
11 i t all depends on who raised the child or if I
12 r a i s e d the c h i l d o r what the s i t u a t i o n i s

13 about the individual.

14 Q. So you w o u l d want t o k n o w t h e

15 situation?

16 A. ( B y Mr. Jefferson) Yeah, yeah. YOU

17 k n o w , w h a t ' s going on. Was there something

18 that happened - -

19 Q. You t o o k away m y t h u n d e r b e c a u s e t h e

20 o t h e r s i d e o f the c o i n w a s , c o m p a r e i t t o t h e

21 b o y w h o was d i s t r a u g h t a n d u p s e t b e c a u s e h i s

22 father l e f t town b e c a u s e h i s m o t h e r a n d dad

23 are separating. Because he's upset, he just

24 kicked the f i r s t ' t h i n g that came to him.

25 W o u l d y o u a g r e e we s h o u l d n ' t p u n i s h t h e m b o t h

26 t h e s a m e way? I s there a n y b o d y t h a t d i s a g r e e s

27 with that?

28 A. (By Mr. Natale) (No response.)

29 A. (By Ms. Thornton) (No response.)

30 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) (No response.)

31 A. (By Mr. Walker) (No response.)

32 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )
 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. (By M r . Walters) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Ms. Snelling) (No response.)

A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

5 A. (By Ms. Clay) (No r e s p o n s e . )

6 A. (By Mr. T h o m a s ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

7 Q. A n d the d o g i s j u s t a s i n j u r e d ,

a right? So a mitigating c i r c u m s t a n c e d o e s n ' t

9 e x c u s e t h e offense. T h a t b o y i s n o t e x c u s e d

10 b e c a u s e h e was u p s e t b e c a u s e h i s p a r e n t s w e r e
11 separating. But what i t d o e s d o , i t j u s t i f i e s
12 a l e s s s e v e r e punishment. Would y o u a l l a g r e e

13 with t h a t c o n c e p t ?

14 A. (By M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

15 A. (By M s . Thornton) Y e s .

16 A. (By Ms. E d w a r d s ) Y e s .

17 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

ia A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Yes.

19 A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes.

20 A. ( B y Mr. Walters) Yes.

2 1 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

22 A. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

23 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

24 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.

25 Q. On the o t h e r h a n d , t h e b o y w h o k i c k e d

26 t h e d o g a n d injured t h e d o g o u t o f p l e a s u r e

27 s h o u l d p r o b a b l y get a more s e v e r e s e n t e n c e

28 because that would be an aggravating

29 circumstance. E v e n t h o u g h the d o g i s j u s t a s

30 i n j u r e d , i t s t i l l m a k e s the o f f e n s e w o r s e ;

3 1 would you agree?

32 A. (By M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.
 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

A. (By M s . Edwards) Yes.

A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

A. (By M s . H i c k s ) Yes.

A. ( B y Ms, D i x o n ) Y e s .
A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) Y e s .

A. (By M s . S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

A. (By M r . Jefferson) Yes

A. (By M s . C l a y ) Yes.

A. (By M r . Thomas) Y e s .

Q. B e c a u s e o f w h a t was i n s i d e t h e b o y

who d i d i t .

Now, we are back i n the procedure.

A t t h e penalty p h a s e , t h e r e a r e t h r e e p o s s i b l e
outcomes. One i s a u n a n i m o u s v e r d i c t o f

death. A verdict o f d e a t h h a s t o be

unanimous. Two, a unanimous v e r d i c t of life

imprisonment. Again, that i s a t hard l a b o r

without the p o s s i b i l i t y of parole. We u s e t h e

word " b e n e f i t o f " m e a n s t h e same t h i n g a s

possibility. And t h r e e , an agreement t O

disagree.

I believe M r . Thompson t o u c h e d upon

that. If there i s one holdout for life, the

l a w provides that the sentence is life. I

t h i n k he u s e d t h e e x a m p l e of two, one o r more,

e i t h e r way, we call that a deadlock jury, a

hu.ng j u r y . I don't l i k e t h e word ''hung."

Deadlock, I don't know why w e h a v e w o r d s t h a t

means death, Irhung" a n d "dead." But it j u s t

means you c a n ' t agree. When y o u h a v e t h a t k i n d

of situation, the l a w provides that the

 I

s e n t e n c e i s life imprisonment. You m i g h t s a y

t h a t ' s the d e f a u l t position.

So t o i m p o s e d e a t h , t h e l a w r e q u i r e s ,

a s Mr. T h o m p s o n c o r r e c t l y p o i n t e d o u t , y o u

5 'must find at least one aggravating

6 circumstance proven b e y o n d a r e a s o n a b l e d o u b t .
7 Now, y o u s a w s o m e o f t h e a g g r a v a t i n g

8 circumstances. Does anybody remember what the

9 o f f e n s e of f i r s t d e g r e e m u r d e r i n v o l v e d ? It's

10 a killing p l u s s o m e t h i n g ? It's a killing plus

11 during a robbery, a kidnapping, burglary, or

12 i t w.as a k i l l i n g w h e r e they i n t e n d e d t o k i l l

13 m o r e t h a n o n e person. Well, t h e a g g r a v a t i n g

14 circumstances look pretty similar, don't they?

15 So if M r . D o r s e y h a s b e e n f o u n d o f

16 g u i l t y f i r s t d e g r e e murder, g u e s s w h a t ' s

17 automatically been proven? An a g g r a v a t i n g

18 c i r c u m s t a n c e . So t h a t first r e q u i r e m e n t i s

19 really a no-brainer. That would be pretty

20 much a u t o m a t i c . B u t o n c e an a g g r a v a t i n g

21 circumstance is proven, it doesn't mean you

22 must impose a death penalty. There is no

23 must. T h e r e i s n e v e r any m u s t for t h e d e a t h

24 penalty.

25 'As a m a t t e r o f f a c t , t h e r e i s

26 a b s o l u t e l y n o s e t o f c i r c u m s t a n c e s in t h e law

27 t h a t e v e r , e v e r r e q u i r e s t h e i m p o s i t i o n of

28 death. D o e s everybody u n d e r s t a n d t h a t ?

29 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

30 A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

31 A. (By M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes.

32 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes. .

214
5938
 2

.. 3

5.

10

11

12

13
14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

26

27

28

29

30
I
31

215
 1 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) No.

2 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) No.

3 A. ( B y M s . H i c k s ) No.

4 A. (By Ms. Dixon) No.

5 A. ( B y Mr. Walters) No.

6 A. ( B y M s . S n e l l i n g ) No.

7 A. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) No.

8 A. ( B y M s . C l a y ) No.

9 A. (By Mr. T h o m a s ) No.

10 Q. O k a y . N o w , to i m p o s e a l i f e s e n t e n c e

11 the law requires n o pre-conditions. Again, I

12 guess t h a t ' s b e c a u s e i t ' s a d e f a u l t

13 position - - but I can't speak for the

14 legislature - - which means, you are not

15 required to find more mitigation than

16 aggravation. It is not about counting.

17 Sometimes you can have one mitigating

18 circumstance that's very powerful o r you can

19 h a v e a l o t of l i t t l e m i t i g a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e s ,

20 or you can have an aggravating circumstance

21 that's very compelling. So i t ' s n o t a b o u t

22 counting.

23 Does everybody understand that? Does

24 everybody understand the concept here?

25 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

26 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Y e s .

27 A. (By Ms. Edwards) Yes.

28 A. (By Mr. Walker) Yes.

29 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Y e s .

30 A. (By Ms. Dixon) Yes.

31 A. (By Mr. Walters) Yes.

32 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.
 A. ( B y Mr. 'Jefferson) Yes.

A. ( B y M s . C l a y ) Yes.

A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Yes.

Q. T h a n k you. The court reporter

appreciates that.

You a r e n o t r e q u i r e d t o f i n d t h a t

mitigation outweighs aggravation. Again, each

o f y o u d e c i d e what t o you i s m i t i g a t i n g . And

actually, you're not required to find any

mitigation whatsoever. As Mr. Thompson

c o r r e c t l y p o i n t e d out, you may i m p o s e l i f e f o r

a n y r e a s o n a t a l l , e v e n f o r mercy a l o n e .

Does 'everybody understand that?

A. (By Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

A. (By M s . E d w a r d s ) Yes.

A. ( B y Mr. Walker) Yes.

A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Yes.

A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.

A. (By M r . Walters) Y e s .

A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yes.

A. ( B y M r . T h o m a s ) Yes.

Q. Does anybody disagree with it? Only

t h e d i s a g r e e r s n e e d t o answer.

A. (By Mr. Natale) (No response.)

A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. (By Ms. Edwards) ( N o response.)

A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) (No response.)

A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) (No response.)

A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

217
5 9-33
 I A. (By M r . W a l t e r s ) (No response.)

A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Mr. Jefferson) (No r e s p o n s e . )

4 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A. (By Mr. Thomas) (No r e s p o n s e . )

Q. No. G o o d .

And t h a t ' s why h e a s k e d y o u , i f we

8 p u t on e v i d e n c e o f mitigation, c o u l d y o u s t i l l

9 l e a v e t h e o p t i o n of l i f e i m p r i s o n m e n t o p e n ,

10 and I b e l i e v e a l l o f you a n s w e r e d t h a t w a s

11 yes; is that correct?

12 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Y e s .

13 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

14 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

15 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

16 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) Yes.

17 A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes.

18 A. ( B y M r . W a l t e r s ) Yes.

19 A. (By M s . S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

20 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

21 A. ( B y M s . C l a y ) Yes.

22 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) Yes.

23 Q. I t i s l i k e choir p r a c t i c e . You a r e a

24 g o o d group.

25 And for a life s e n t e n c e , u n a n i m i t y i s

26 not required. Again, o n e p e r s o n w h o . h o l d s o u t

27

28
I o r t w o p e o p l e or m o r e f o r a l i f e s e n t e n c e

means that the life sentence will be imposed.

29 A g a i n , any q u e s t i o n s a b o u t t h a t ?

30 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) (No response.)

31 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

32 A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )
 . -_

A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B Y MS. ~ i x o ' n )( N ~ O r e s p o n s e . )
. .
A. (By Mr. Walters) (No r e s p o n s e . )
A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) ( N o response.)

A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

Q. I'll q u i c k l y g o t h r o u g h
q u a l i f i c a t i o n s to serve on a jury. I think

Mr. T h o m p s o n c o v e r e d t h a t very, v e r y w e l l .

T h e l a w s a y s you c a n n o t s e r v e i f y o u h a v e

c o n s c i e n t i o u s s c r u p l e s a g a i n s t the d e a t h

p e n a l t y , a n d you w o u l d a u t o m a t i c a l l y v o t e

a g a i n s t t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , r e g a r d l e s s o f the

e v i d e n c e , or y o u r a t t i t u d e w o u l d p r e v e n t o r

s u b s t a n t i a l l y i m p a i r you from m a k i n g a n

i m p a r t i a l d e c i s i o n in a c c o r d a n c e w i t h y o u r

i n s t r u c t i o n s or o a t h .

The reason f o r t h a t i s , we w a n t

people who can fairly consider both options.

L i k e w i s e t h i s i s the o t h e r s i d e o f t h e c o i n ,

y o u c a n n o t s e r v e if you w o u l d a u t o m a t i c a l l y

vote for death. I t ' s j u s t the o t h e r s i d e o f

the coin. A n d y o u have an a t t i t u d e t h a t would

prevent or substantially impair you from

m a k i n g an i m p a r t i a l d e c i s i o n a n d so o n . In

o t h e r words, t o be fair, you c a n ' t b e o f s u c h

a n e x t r e m e view t h a t you w o u l d e x c l u d e t h e ,

other possibility. Does everybody understand

that?

A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.
 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Y e s .

A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.

A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

A. (By Ms. H i c k s ) Yes.

5 A. (By Ms. D i x o n ) Yes.
6 A. ( B y Mr. Walters) Yes.

7 A. ( B y Ms. S n e l l i n g ) Yes.

8 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) Yes.

9 A. (By M s . C l a y ) Yes.

10 A. (By Mr. T h o m a s ) Y e s .

11 Q. I t h i n k t h i s i s the s a m e q u e s t i o n h e

12 a s k e d y o u . H e a s k e d you a b o u t y o u r f e e l i n g s o n

13 t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , and I ' m n o t g o i n g t o a s k

14 the same question again, but what I will do is

15 a s k y o u a c o u p l e follow- up q u e s t i o n s , b u t

16 f i r s t I want t o a s k you h o w you r a t e y o u r s e l f .

17 Now, unlike t h e S t a t e ' s s c a l e t h a t h a s f i v e

ia different ratings, mine has seven. Let me

19 s h o w you t h e m .

O n e i s a l w a y s vote f o r d e a t h . Two is

21 lean s t r o n g l y i n favor of d e a t h . Three is

22 l e a n s l i g h t l y in the f a v o r o f d e a t h . Four is

23 neutral. F i v e i s lean s l i g h t l y in f a v o r o f

life imprisonment. six is lean strongly in

25 favor of life imprisonment. And s e v e n , a l w a y s

26 v o t e f o r l i f e imprisonment.

27 I If you would, t a k e a f e w m o m e n t s t o

28 ~
l o o k a t that. You will n o t i c e t h a t i t i s v e r y

29 1 s i m i l a r t o Mr. T h o m p s o n ' s s c a l e . It shows

30 1 w h e t h e r y o u ' r e a l w a y s for d e a t h , a l w a y s f o r

31 l i f e or w h e t h e r y o u ' r e n e u t r a l a n d l i k e

32 M r . T h o m p s o n ' s scale s h o w s w h i c h way y o u l e a n ;

220

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1 A. (By M s . C l a y ) Number four, neutral.

2 Q. Mr. Walker.

3 A. (By M r . Walker) I ' m t o r n between twol

4 a c t u a l l y because the fact I do b e l i e v e i n the

death p e n a l t y . I also believe the evidence

m u s t be s t r o n g e n o u g h t o s u p p o r t t h a t . So two

and f i v e i s where I ' m actually at.

Q. Both a two and a f i v e . We h a v e b e e n

9 doing t h i s for quite a w h i l e , a n d that's first

10 t i m e w e ' v e e v e r h a d s o m e b o d y who w a s b o t h a

11 two and a f i v e .

12 A. (By M r . Walker) Really? Okay.

13 Q. So you l e a n strongly in favor of

14 death, but lean slightly in f a v o r o f l i f e

15 imprisonment?

16 A. (By M r . Walker) The e v i d e n c e i s g o i n g

17 t o s w a y i t o n e way o r t h e o t h e r .

18 Q. When y o u s a y t h e "evidence, 'I you want

19 i t t o be c e r t a i n .

20 A. (By M r . Walker) That is exactly right

21 b e c a u s e t h e r e ' s g o t t o be n o d o u b t b e c a u s e I

22 w o u l d n ' t have anybody have t h e death p e n a l t y

23 p u t on them i f t h e r e was a n y d o u b t . The

24 e v i d e n c e h a s g o t t o be o n e h u n d r e d p e r c e n t .

25 Q. U n d e r t h e l a w - - a n d t h i s i s t h e way

26 it i s i n e v e r y s t a t e i n t h e union -- i n o r d e r

27 t o convict somebody, the evidence must prove

28 g u i l t beyond a r e a s o n a b l e doubt.

29 A. ,(By M r . Walker) That's correct.

30 Q. And y o u w o u l d m a k e t h a t d e t e r m i n a t i o n

31 along w i t h the other eleven jurors.

32 A. (By M r . Walker) Right.

222
5938
 1 Q. Now, i f you f e l t t h a t t h e r e w a s n ' t

2 proof beyond a reasonable doubt, you shouldn't

3 vote guilty, right?

4 A. (By Mr. W a l k e r ) T h a t ' s c o r r e c t

5 exactly.

6 Q. So i f you reached t h a t p o i n t , t h a t ' s

7 b e c a u s e you h a v e p e r s o n a l l y m a d e a d e c i s i o n

8 the p e r s o n i s g u i l t y b e y o n d a r e a s o n a b l e

9 doubt. Would you then feel comfortable, would

10 y o u t r u s t y o u r s e l f t o m a k e t h a t first

11 decision, first of all?

12 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

13 Q. H a v i n g made that first d e c i s i o n and

<

14 you reach a penalty phase, would that still be

15 an i s s u e y o u ?

16 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) No, t h e r e w o u l d b e n o

17 i s s u e if e v e r y t h i n g was right.

18 Q. And you f e l t c o m f o r t a b l e i n r e n d e r i n g

19 t h e f i r s t verdict.

20 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) E x a c t l y .

21 Q. So o n c e y o u r e n d e r the f i r s t v e r d i c t ,

22 you w o u l d th'en b e a t w o ?

23 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

24 Q. W h i c h m e a n s you c o u l d s t i l l

25 c o n s i d e r - - you l e a n s t r o n g l y in f a v o r of

26 d e a t h , b u t y o u could s t i l l i m p o s e a l i f e

27 sentence.

28 , A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

29 Q. Ms. E d w a r d s , h o w w o u l d y o u r a t e

30 yourself on our scale?

31 A. ( B y M s . E d w a r d s ) I was l o o k i n g a t

32 four and five.

 Q. Four i s neutral a n d f i v e i s l e a n

s l i g h t l y in f a v o r of l i f e i m p r i s o n m e n t ?

A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) ( J u r o r n o d s h e a d . )

Q. So a f o u r p l u s o r f i v e m i n u s ?

A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) F o u r p l u s .

Q. I have never understood the

d i f f e r e n c e a t s c h o o l a n d you e i t h e r h a d an " A "

m i n u s or a 'IB" p l u s ; weren't they t h e s a m e ?

Isn't it halfway between? Still the " A "

l o o k e d b e t t e r , didn't it?
A. (By Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.
Q. So between a f o u r a n d a f i v e w h i c h i s

n e u t r a l and lean s l i g h t l y in f a v o r of l i f e
I
imprisonment?

A. ( B y Ms. Edwards) Y e s .

Q. Ms. T h o r n t o n , h o w w o u l d y o u r a t e

y o u r s e l f on t h i s s c a l e ?

A. (By Ms. Thornton) Two.

Q. For the record, t w o m e a n s t h a t y o u

b e l i e v e lean s t r o n g l y in f a v o r o f d e a t h . I
A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

Q. M r . N a t a l e , h o w w o u l d you r a t e

y o u r s e l f on t h i s s c a l e ?

A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) T w o .

Q. For the r e c o r d , t h a t m e a n s y o u l e a n

s t r o n g l y in f a v o r of d e a t h ?

A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

Q. Mr. T h o m a s , h o w w o u l d y o u r a t e

yourself on this scale? I

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) S i x .

Q. For the r e c o r d , s i x m e a n s y o u l e a n

s t r o n g l y in f a v o r o f life i m p r i s o n m e n t .

224

5948
 M r . N a t a l e , b y the w a y , I f o r g o t to

a s k y o u t h i s q u e s t i o n e a r l y on. This is

r e g a r d i n g p r e t r i a l publicity. What do you

t h i n k of t h e p r e s s a n d t h e newspaper as f a r as

getting things right?

A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) They d o n ' t a l w a y s g e t

it right.

10 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

11 Q. W e r e n ' t you a reporter?

12 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

13 Q. I t h i n k you u s e d t o d o the c o u r t h o u s e

14 beat?

15 A. ( B y Mr. Natale) I t i n c l u d e d c o u r t s .

16 U s u a l l y , it was whoever was a v a i l a b l e t h a t d a y

17 to cover it.

18 Q. You're under oath. Did you u s u a l l y

19 get things right?

20 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) U s u a l l y , y e s .

21 Usually, when I didn't, somebody told me I was

22 wrong.

23 Q. Y0.u heard it from o u r o f f i c e s ?

24 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) No.

25 Q. O k a y . You l e a n s t r o n g l y in f a v o r o f

26 t h e d e a t h penalty; c a n y o u t e l l u s w h y ?

27 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) S p e a k i n g t o m e ?

28 Q. Y o u , Mr. N a t a l e .

29 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

30 Q. Right now, I'm going to talk to

31 e v e r y b o d y w h o rated t h e m s e l v e s a s a t w o .
I
32 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) I a m a p r o p o n e n t of

225
5943.
 1 the death p e n a l t y . I think a lot of ,it h a s to

2 d o w i t h what I h a v e s e e n in the n e w s a n d s e e n

3 in covering t r i a l s a n d in current how

4 m u r d e r in s o m e c a s e s - - c e r t a i n m u r d e r s a f f e c t

5 t h e f a m i l i e s of victims. And you know, an eye

6 for an eye is something that I strongly

b e l i e v e i n , and you k n o w , t h a t ' s w h y I f e e l

t h e way I d o a b o u t d e a t h p e n a l t y .

Q. W h a t d o you think t h e b e s t a r g u m e n t

10 in f a v o r o f the d e a t h p e n a l t y i s ?

11 A. (By Mr. Natale) Meaning, more like a

12 scenario?

13 Q. No. T h e b e s t a r g u m e n t in t e r m s o f we

14 s h o u l d h a v e the d e a t h p e n a l t y b e c a u s e ....
15 A. ( B y M r . Natale) B e c a u s e i t ' s a

16 d e t e r r e n t and I t h i n k - - w e l l , p e r s o n a l l y , I

17 think if i t was s o m e t h i n g t h a t h a p p e n e d t o m e

18 or somebody who was close to me, a family

19 m e m b e r o r somebody w h o w a s c l o s e t o m e , I

20 w o u l d w a n t t o s e e the d e a t h p e n a l t y i n v o k e d .

2 1 Q. I think t h a t ' s c a l l e d r e t r i b u t i o n .

22 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Right.

23 Q. So we h a v e r e t r i b u t i o n a n d

24 deterrence.

25 Ms. Thornton, you also rated yourself

26 a two.

27 A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

28 Q. Why d o you feel so s t r o n g l y ?

29 A. (By Ms. Thornton) Because if you take

30 t h a t l i f e , you k n o w , I t h i n k t h a t i t ' s

31 c i r c u m s t a n c e s - - n o t c i r c u m s t a n c e s - - b u t the

32 d e t a i l s , e v e r y t h i n g s h o w s t h a t it i s t r u e , a n d

226
5942
 Ci'Y
1"7
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1 I think that t h a t p e r s o n n e e d s t o be d e a d , flrw
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2 too. I don't know how t o e x p l a i n it e x a c t l y . I$$
11w1

3 Q. You a r e d o i n g f i n e . ,&I

pwb

l%J
4 A. (By M s . Thornton) That i f there is a 89
IJfd
5 doubt, you know, then t h a t ' s why I - - i t ' s n o t PJ
63
6 a real definite yes, it's, I j u s t would need
03
t,I;l

7 t o know t h e c i r c u m s t a n c e s a n d e v e r y t h i n g

8 involved i n it.

9 Q. A l l right. Who e l s e r a t e d t h e m s e l v e s

10 as a two?

11 Mr. Walker.

12 A. (By M r . Walker) ( J u r o r nods head.)

13 Q. Assuming t h a t t h e evidence has been

1 4 proven beyond a r e a s o n a b l e doubt, you lean

15 strongly i n favor of the death penalty.

16 A. (By M r . Walker) Yes.

17 Q. C o u l d y o u t e l l why m e y o u a r e

18 strongly i n favor of t h e death penalty?

19 A. (By M r . Walker) I t ' s l i k e t h e y was

20 mentioning there, an eye f o r an eye, a tooth

21 for a tooth. If a person takes a life, their

22 l i f e needs t o be removed a s w e l l . I do f e e l

23 s o r r y f o r t h e p e r s o n -- f o r b o t h of them.

24 Don't g e t m e wrong. But when something i s

25 done, there's g o t t o be a p e n a l t y imposed, so

26 death i s death.

27 And another thing I've talked t o

28 other people about, when y o u imprison

29 somebody -- and I ' m g o i n g t o s a y i t t h i s way

30 and I ' m g o i n g t o s t a n d on i t -- w e are p a y i n g

31 f o r t h a t p e r s o n t o be i n c a r c e r a t e d . It is our

32 taxes, o u r money t h a t t h a t p e r s o n is staying

227
 in jail. We are f e e d i n g him o r w h a t e v e r ,

boarding him. T h a t a g g r a v a t e s me t o a p o i n t ,

but there again, it goes.back, if they are

g u i l t y o f d e a t h , then d e a t h n e e d s t o b e w i t h

5 t h e m .

6 Q. You n e e d t o g e t the s a m e p u n i s h m e n t

7 that they inflicted.

8 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) E x a c t l y .

9 Q. Mr. Walker, l e t me go b a c k t o one o f

10 our slides. If we reach a p e n a l t y p h a s e , it's

11 b e c a u s e it i s a f o r e g o n e c o n c l u s i o n t h a t

12 Mr. D o r s e y k i l l e d without any d e f e n s e a n d t h a t

13 he killed during a robbery, rape, kidnapping

14 or b u r g l a r y , a n d h e m e a n t t o d o i t .
15 A. (By Mr. Walker) Exactly.

16 Q. C o u l d you c o n s i d e r i m p o s i n g a l i f e

17 s e n t e n c e for s o m e b o d y w h o d i d t h a t ?

18 A. (By Mr. Walker) I f a p e r s o n t o o k

19 another person's life, no. If t h e y h a v e

20 k i l l e d a n d they h a v e s t o p p e d s o m e b o d y e l s e

21 from l i v i n g , they d o n ' t n e e d t o l i v e .

22 Q. C a n y o u think of any c i r c u m s t a n c e s

23 where you would impose a life sentence for a

24 person like that?

25 A. (By Mr. Walker) The only thing comes

26 t o m y m i n d r i g h t now i s i f t h e r e w a s a s c u f f l e

27 or s o m e t h i n g o f t h a t n a t u r e t o w h e r e t h e t w o

28 p e o p l e w e r e in a fight with o n e w e a p o n a n d i t

29 went o f f . T h a t w o u l d b e the o n l y c i r c u m s t a n c e

30 I would, s e e d o i n g i t . If y o u t a k e a l i f e a n d

31 l i k e m y s e l f if I were j u s t t o , s h o o t y o u o r d o

32 s o m e t h i n g t o k i l l you, t h e n I d o n ' t d e s e r v e t o

228
5944
 -.
j
. ,i
.?-.

live. I deserve that punishment.

Q. Right. Do you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t

that?

A. ( B y Mr. Walker) Yes, I do.

Q. Ms. Thornton, just so we u n d e r s t a n d

what we're talking about, we a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t

a n intentional killing, where there i s n o

defense, during a robbery, rape, k i d n a p p i n g o r

burglary. In that particular s i t u a t i o n , c o u l d

y o u ever see yourself imposing a life

sentence?

A. ( B y M s . Thornton) I d o n ' t t h i n k so.

If i t was intentional and the other p e r s o n ,

n o , I m e a n , he was just there, it's o k a y , and

t h e y k i l l e d them, I ' v e g o t a problem with

that.

Q. Okay. B u t for you, the only sentence

for you would be life - - I mean, the d e a t h

penalty?
A. (By M s . Thornton) (Juror n o d s h e a d . )

Q. Can you think o f a n y c i r c u m s t a n c e s

where you would impose a life s e n t e n c e f o r

someone who intentionally k i l l s another during

a robbery, rape, a kidnapping o r a b u r g l a r y ?

A. (By Ms. Thornton) I t ' s k i n d o f like

the gentleman down there, you know, i f i t was

a self-defense- type thing, then t h a t w o u l d

make a difference, but . . . .

Q. Other than killing in the

self-defense-type situation.

A. (By M s . Thornton) I c a n ' t t h i n k o f

anything right at the moment.

229
5945
 0 I i
,.r '

3i
1 Q. Do y o u f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ? rv
61
2

I 4

I 6

I 7 intentionally kills another during one of

I 8 those underlying offenses, would you see

y o u r s e l f e v e r imposing a l i f e s e n t e n c e ?

10 A. ( B y Mr. Natale) No, not w i t h t h o s e

11 c l e a r - c u t f a c t o r s , no.

12 Q. You understand, i f you d i d n ' t h a v e

13 that, it wouldn't be a first degree murder.

I
14 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) R i g h t .

15

16
Q. I a p p r e c i a t e y o u r c a n d o r on this

b e c a u s e if w e d o g e t to this point, we h a v e t o
I
17 know n o w whether y o u w o u l d b e o p e n t o b o t h

18 sentences. From what I a m h e a r i n g i s t h a t i f

19 first degree murder is proven, then,

20 M r . N a t a l e , you c a n n o t c o n s i d e r a l i f e

21 sentences?

22 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) If it was an

23 i n t e n t i o n a l k i l l i n g , no, I c o u l d n o t .

24 Q. And if i t wasn't i n t e n t i o n a l , i t

25 w o u l d n ' t b e first.

26 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Right.

27 Q. I f i t was i n t e n t i o n a l , y o u c o u l d n ' t

28 i m p o s e a life s e n t e n c e ; i s t h a t a f a i r

29 statement?

30 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

31 Q. And the s a m e f o r y o u , M s . T h o r n t o n .

32 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Y e s .

230
5946
 Q. And t h e s a m e f o r y o u , M r . W a l k e r .

2 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

3 Q. L e t me fast forward. If y o u ' r e g o o d

I 4 a t s p e e d r e a d i n g , you c o u l d k e e p u p w i t h t h i s .
I
5 A g a i n , i t g o e s back t o y o u r q u a l i f i c a t i o n s t o

6 serve on the jury. It is o k a y to feel t h a t

10

I'm not ignoring the three o f you now

12 a t t h i s p o i n t , but I know you a r e f i x e d in

13 y o u r ways.

14 The rest of you, e a c h j u r o r d e c i d e s

15 individually life o r death. Y o u did t h a t

16 based upon your own assessment o f what is

17 a g g r a v a t i n g and mitigating. What is

18 a g g r a v a t i n g t o o n e p e r s o n - - I m e a n , w h a t is

19 m i t i g a t i n g t o o n e person might b e l e s s

20 m i t i g a t i n g t o another. O n e vote, o f c o u r s e ,

21 m e a n s life. It only t a k e s o n e o f y o u t o t h i n k

22 t h a t , n o , m y c o n s c i e n c e t e l l s me t h a t l i f e i s

23 the a p p r o p r i a t e sentence.

24 Again, the l a w n e v e r r e q u i r e s y o u t o

25 e v e r i m p o s e a l i f e s e n t e n c e n o m a t t e r h o w bad

26 t h e o f f e n s e is. You a l w a y s h a v e t h e o p t i o n

27 f o r mercy. And o n e m i t i g a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e

28 c a n s u p p o r t a vote f o r l i f e r e g a r d l e s s o f t h e

29 number of aggravating circumstances found.

30 A n d , o f c o u r s e , you may v o t e f o r l i f e

31 b a s e d o n mercy alone. Now, i f y o u ' r e

32 o b l i g a t e d to s e r v e a s a j u r o r , you h a v e

231
5,947
 - -..

certain rights. Now, the reason for t h i s is,

t h i s is probably one o f the most i m p o r t a n t

decisions that people can make in their l i v e s

of whether or n o t t a k e a n o t h e r human being’s

life.

Ms. Hicks, what was the most

important decision y o u ’ v e ever made in y o u r

life?

A. ( B y M s . Hicks) I d o n ’ t really know.

Q. Someone getting married, a decision

to have children, a j o b to take? Ms. Hicks,

c a n you think o f any now?

A. ( B y Ms. Hicks) Well, I g u e s s g e t t i n g

married was the biggest one.

Q. Okay. I s that something you took

lightly or you took your time i n d e c i d i n g ?

A. (By Ms. Hicks) I t was pretty l i g h t .

Q. Okay. Love will d o that, w o n ’ t i t ?

What about you, M s . Dixon?

A. (By Ms. Dixon) I would h a v e t o s a y

getting married.

Q. T h a t ’ s something you took l i g h t l y or

you considered a while?

A. (By Ms. Dixon) I g u e s s I w o u l d h a v e

to say perhaps I t o o k i t lightly.

Q. L e t me rephrase the q u e s t i o n . Has

anyone ever had to make a really, r e a l l y t o u g h

decision in their life?

A. (By Mr. Natale) (No response.)

A. (By Ms. Thornton) ( N o response.)

A. (By Ms. Edwards) ( N o response.)

A. (By Mr. Walker) (No response.)

 A. ( B y Ms. H i c k s ) ,(No response.)

A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Mr. W a l t e r s ) (No response.)

A. (By Ms. Snelling) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

A. ( B y Ms. Clay) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

8
I A.

Q.
(By Mr. Thomas)

M r . Walker.
(No response.)

9
I A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) A j o b change.
10 Q. Okay. That's something you took

11 lightly?

12 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) No.

13 a@ Was i t an e a s y d e c i s i o n ?
14 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) No.

15 Q. You h a v e t o c o n s i d e r a l l t h e s i d e s t o

16 it?

17 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) E x a c t l y .

18 I Q. H o w w o u l d you r a t e t h e d e c i s i o n o n

19 t a k i n g s o m e o n e ' s l i f e in t'erms of d i f f i c u l t y ?

20 A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) On a s c a l e of o n e t o

2 1 ten?

22

23

24

25
I toughest?

Q. Yes.

26 A. (By M r . Walker) T h a t ' s i t .

27 Q. W e a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t a very t o u g h

28 d e c i s i o n , a n d i t ' s s o m e t h i n g we w a n t t o d o

29 very c a l m l y a n d soberly a n d with g r e a t

30 consideration. For t h a t r e a s o n , y o u h a v e

31 t h r e e s p e c i a l rights. And there, o n e i s t h e

32 r i g h t t o b e respected. T h e s e c o n d i s t o make

233
5949
 93
2
2
1 an i n d i v i d u a l decision. And the third is to rvll
E3
be a holdout. Let me d i s c u s s t h e f i r s t , t o b e
frd'l
* *R*
respected. I llrl

M r . Thomas, i f d u r i n g d e l i b e r a t i o n s rcr
CiD
lSb4
you f o u n d y o u r s e l f t o b e t h e h o l d o u t , o n e way \"I%
1r:a
or a n o t h e r , how would y o u want to be treated? Q
dl3

A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I g u e s s j u s t

8 respected for my decision.

9 Q. H o w w o u l d you t r e a 8 a n o t h e r o n e ;

10 let's say you are in t h e m a j o r i t y . You see a

11 holdout, it's getting late, and you feel like

12 i f I c o u l d j u s t c o n v i n c e him t h a t h e ' s w r o n g

13 or s h e ' s wrong, we c a n a l l g o h o m e , h o w w o u l d

14 you treat that p e r s o n ?

15 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) I d o n ' t t h i n k I w o u l d

16 t r y t o c o n v i n c e them o f a n y t h i n g . It's their

17 decision.

18 Q. O k a y . Mr. Walters, if you s a w a

19 h o l d o u t j u r o r , and the r e s t o f the j u r o r s were

20 really putting a lot of pressure on him, if

21 y o u t h o u g h t t h a t they were p e r h a p s g o i n g a

22 l i t t l e t o o f a r or being u n f a i r , w o u l d y o u

23 i n t e r v e n e on b e h a l f o f t h a t j u r o r ?

24 A. (By' M r . Walters) T h e b o t t o m l i n e is,

25 t h i s i s an i n d i v i d u a l d e c i s i o n , a n d y o u k n o w ,

26 i f t h a t p e r s o n , n a t u r a l l y we'd b e a b l e t o

27 d i s c u s s i t , i f t h a t person b e l i e v e s a n d h i s

28 t h o u g h t p r o c e s s e s were s u c h t h a t h e f e e l s

29 s t r o n g l y with i t , who am I t o s a y o t h e r w i s e ?

30 W o u l d I i n t e r v e n e , sure, I w o u l d t r y t o c a l m

31 the s i t u a t i o n down.
I
32 Q. Thank y o u .

234
I 1 I The second right is to individually
I
1 2 d e c i d e t h e p e r s o n ' s f a t e for yourself. And

I 3 s o m e t h i n g t h a t h a s t o b e d o n e a g a i n b a s e d upon

I 4 your own i d e a s of w h a t ' s mitigating and what's

I

I 5 not. And in d e c i d i n g w h a t ' s m i t i g a t i n g o r

I 6 a g g r a v a t i n g , the l a w s a y s what i s a g g r a v a t i n g .
I

7 W h a t ' s mitigating; the law o n l y g i v e s e x a m p l e s

8 of. It h a s t h a t b i g c a t c h a l l , a n y o t h e r

9 relevant mitigating circumstance.

10 And the law s a y s y o u c a n d e c i d e t h o s e

11 b a s e d o n f o l l o w i n g y o u r own c o n s c i e n c e . And

12 e a c h o n e o f you d e c i d e s o n y o u r o w n w h a t i s

13 m i t i g a t i n g a n d what weight t o a t t a c h t o t h o s e .

14 When it c o m e s to m e r c y , that's

15 t o t a l l y u p t o e a c h o n e o f you i n d i v i d u a l l y .

16 L e t ' s s t a r t with s o m e o n e else.

17 I think we s t a r t e d w i t h y o u ,

18 Mr. J e f f e r s o n . W h a t d o e s mercy m e a n t o y o u ?

19 A. ( B y Mr. Jefferson) I t i s s o m e t h i n g

20 t h a t w h e n somebody h a s d o n e s o m e t h i n g w r o n g

21 a n d y o u a c t u a l l y feel b a d f o r t h e m , m a y b e t h e

22 s i t u a t i o n they h a d b e e n t h r o u g h o r b e e n i n , or

23 like he was talking about, you could actually

24 g i v e him mercy f o r t h a t , maybe.

25 Q. In o t h e r words, f o r t h e m u r d e r e r

26 h i m s e l f b e i n g a victim?

27 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) C o u l d h a v e .

28 Q. Okay. T h a t would b e a r e a s o n f o r

29 mercy?

30 A. ( B y M r . J e f f e r s o n ) Yeah.

31 Q. T h a t ' s a good p o i n t .

32 M s . Clay, i s mercy s o m e t h i n g . t h a t ' s

235
 1
I
I
I
earned?
I
2 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) T h a t ' s a l o a d e d

3 question.
~

I
4 Q. Considering that your husband is a
~

I
5 pastor.
6 A. (By Ms. Clay) Yeah, I t h i n k i t
7 d e p e n d s on the situation, h o n e s t l y , and t h e

9
c i r c u m s t a n c e s if i t ' s earned or not.

Q. C o u l d you i m p o s e m e r c y b a s e d u p o n t h e
I
10
11
fact that the m u r d e r e r h i m s e l f
victim?
has b e e n a
I
12 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Are y o u s t i l l t a l k i n g

13 t o me?

14 Q. Yes.
15 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) Yeah, because I mean, I

16 h a v e d e f i n i t e l y d e a l t with v i c t i m s in t h e

17 p a s t , a n d it would b e a c o n s i d e r a t i o n .

18

19
Q. Mr. Walters, l i k e Mr. J e f f e r s o n a n d

M s . C l a y , c o u l d y o u c o n s i d e r i m p o s i n g m e r c y on
I
20 t h a t b a s i s because the murderer h i m s e l f h a s

21

22
been a victim?

A. (By Mr. Walters) I would say, yes,

I
23 n o t b a s e d s o l e l y o n t h e mercy b u t t h e s e v e r e

24 m i t i g a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e s , t h a t w o u l d h e l p me

25 with t h e mercy.

26 Q. A n d , Mr. J e f f e r s o n ' a n d Ms. C l a y , y o u

27 .are n o d d i n g in a g r e e m e n t with M r . W a l t e r s .

28 A. ( B y Mr. J e f f e r s o n ) ( J u r o r n o d s h e a d . )

29 A. ( B y Ms. C l a y ) (Juror nods head.)

30 Q. T h a t m a y b e n o t a l o n e b u t in

31 c o m b i n a t i o n with severe m i t i g a t i n g

32 circumstances.
 1

". 0
1 What a b o u t you, M s . Edwards? Would

2 you consider mercy for the fact or the basis

3 t h a t t h e m u r d e r e r is also a v i c t i m ?

A. ( B y Ms. E d w a r d s ) Yes.
Q. Ms. D i x o n , could you consider g i v i n g
m e r c y f o r t h a t r e a s o n , t h a t t h e murderer is

7 also a victim?

8 A. ( B y Ms. D i x o n ) Y e s .

9 Q. You w e r e h e s i t a n t .

10 A. (By Ms. Dixon) Y e a h .

11

12
I Q. Would it take a little bit more than

13

14 t h a t ' s k i n d of - - I m e a n , b e c a u s e t w o w r o n g s

15 don't make a right.

16 Q. Sure. You would want to see more

17 I than just the fact that he was a victim?

18 .A. ( B y M s . D i x o n ) Yes.

19 Q. Okay. Ms. Hicks.

20 A. (By Ms. Hicks) I agree that I would

2 1 h a v e t o s e e m o r e t h a n that.

22 Q. More than the murderer himself being

23 a victim.

24 Mr. Thomas, the same question.

25 A. (By Mr. Thomas) Yes, I think I could

26 show mercy.

27 Q. Finally, you have the right t o be a

28 holdout. And actually the law - - or most

29 judges instruct jurors that it is their duty

30 not t o surrender their honest opinions in

31 order to reach a verdict. So i t i s n o t o n l y

32
I suggested, but it's pretty much the law, but
 ...

2 3
"'F
dm

1 b y t h e same t o k e n , you h a v e t o d e l i b e r a t e , you

2 have t o d i s c u s s your feelings, and w e want you

3 t o do t h a t . We w a n t y o u t o d o i t f , o r t h e

4 reason meant. We don't want you to surrender

5 your h o n e s t c o n v i c t i o n s j u s t t o r e a c h a

6 verdict. Does e v e r y o n e a g r e e n o t t o do t h a t ?

7 A. (By M r . Nata1.e) Yes.

8 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

9 A. (By M s . Edwards) Y e s .

10 A. (By M r . Walker) Y e s .

11 A. (By M s . Hicks) Yes.

12 A. (By M s . Dixon) Yes.

I
~

13 A. (By Mr. Walters) Yes.

14 A. (By M s - . Snelling) Yes.
,
15 A. (By M r . Jefferson) Yes.

16 A. (By M s . C l a y ) Yes.

17 A. (By M r . Thomas) Y e s .

18 Q. The system expects t h a t sometimes i t

19 a l l o w s f o r t h i s outcome and i t ' s t h e l a w . And

20 it essentially s a y s i t ' s okay t o agree t o

21 disagree.

22 Before I close, does anybody have

23 q u e s t i o n s f o r me?

24 A: (By M r . Natale) (No r e s p o n s e . ) i

25 A. (By M s . Thornton) (No response.)

26 A. (By M s . Edwards) (No response.)

27 A. (By M r . Walker) (No response.)

28 A. (By M s . Hicks) (No response.)

29 A. (By M s . Dixon) (No response.)

30 A. (By M r . Walters) (No r e s p o n s e . )

31 A. (By M s . Snelling). (No re'sponse. )

32 A. (By M r . Jefferson) (No r e s p o n s e . )

I
 1 A. (By Ms. C l a y ) ( N o r e s p o n s e , )

2 A. ( B y Mr. T h o m a s ) (No r e s p o n s e . )

3 MR. GOLDEN: T h a n k y o u very m u c h f o r

y o u r time.
T H E COURT: W i l 1 , y o u please f o l l o w the

b a i l i f f , Frankie, o u t f o r j u s t a m o m e n t .

7 ( U p o n t h e venire p a n e l was e x c u s e d f r o m the

9
courtroom.)

T H E COURT: Is t h e r e any r e q u e s t for

I
10 individual voir dire?
I
11 MR. THOMPSON: We would respectfully

12

13
r e q u e s t juror o n e , M r . N a t a l e ; j u r o r n u m b e r

t w o , M s . T h o r n t o n ; a n d Mr. W a l k e r . We will
I
14 s t a r t with j u r o r number one with p e r m i s s i o n
15 f r o m the Court.

16 ( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s s e a t e d in

17 the courtroom.)

18 THE COURT: Mr. N a t a l e , we o n l y b r o u g h t

19 you in t o ask you a few q u e s t i o n s o u t s i d e the

20 p r e s e n c e o f the o t h e r j u r o r s .

I 21
I

~ 22 FURTHER VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N
I
,I 23 BY M R . THOMPSON:

24 Q. M r . Natale, I wanted t o a s k y o u s o m e
~

25 f o l l o w - u p q u e s t i o n s in r e f e r e n c e t o s o m e o f

t h e r e s p o n s e s you g a v e t o Mr. G o l d e n i n t h a t

I 27 r o u n d of voir dire.

W h e n we h a d a d i s c u s s i o n e a r l i e r , I

a s k e d you whether you c o u l d c o n s i d e r a l l t h e

m i t i g a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e s in t h e p e n a l t y p h a s e

a n d a s s i g n them their a p p r o p r i a t e w e i g h t t h a t

you want to give them, as your juror's right,

 1 a n d t h e n r e n d e r an u l t i m a t e d e c i s i o n t h a t you

2 felt appropriate. Do y o u r e c a l l t h a t l i n e of

3 questioning?

A. ( B y M r , Natale) Yes.
5 Q. You said during t h a t l i n e of
6 q u e s t i o n i n g that y o u could seriously c o n s i d e r

7 b o t h t h e l i f e i m p r i s o n m e n t o p t i o n o r d e a t h ; is

8 that correct?

9 A. (By Mr. N a t a l e ) Um-hum.

10 Q. I n e e d y o u t o a n s w e r y e s o r no.

11 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes, y e s .

12 Q. Also, I a d d e d t h e c a v e a t t h a t i f

13 y o u ' r e a t t h a t portion, t h e d e f e n d a n t has

14 a l r e a d y b e e n c o n v i c t e d of first d e g r e e murder.

15 Do you recall that line of questioning?

16 A. (By Mr. Natale) Yes.

17 Q. To t h a t e x t e n t , Mr. G o l d e n d i d a

18 f o l l o w - u p a n d a s k e d if s o m e o n e w a s c o n v i c t e d

19 of first degree murder, an intentional killing

20 during the course o f ' o n e of those aggravating

21 circumstances, would you be able to impose a

22 life sentence, and then you indicated no.

23 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) W e l l , g i v e n - - j u s t

24 given the circumstances of somebody

25 intenti,onally k i l l e d s o m e b o d y , y o u k n o w , I

26 would think it would have to be, you know,

27 heinous, but I would think if there are other

28 mitigating circumstances, I could weigh both,

29 but I think.ultimately and honestly, my favor

30 wou.ld g o s t r o n g e r t o t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y .

31 Q. As w e i n d i c a t e d e a r l i e r - -
t

32 A. (By Mr. Natale) But I would consider

I 1 b o t h , b u t g i v e more w e i g h t t o t h e death
I

2 penalty.

3 Q. Right. Now, k e e p i n m i n d , a s we
I
4 indicated earlier, it's okay to favor the

5 death penalty.

6 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Right.

7 Q. As l o n g a s you w i l l s e r i o u s l y

8 c o n s i d e r b o t h options.

9 A. (By Mr. Natale) Yes.

10 Q. And y o u i n d i c a t e d e a r l i e r t h a t t h e r e
11 may b e s o m e t h i n g in a ,case that w o u l d cause
t

12 y o u t o vote for life; w o u l d t h a t b e a f a i r

13 statement?

14 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

15 Q. To t h a t e x t e n t , as M r . G o l d e n '
16 q u e s t i o n e d y o u and as I've thrown o u t t o you,

17 c a n y o u e n v i s i o n s c e n a r i o s w h e r e e v e n if

18 someone is convicted of first degree murder,

19 t h e y may b e c o n v i c t e d a s a p r i n c i p a l , t h e y may

20 b e t h e g e t a w a y d r i v e r , there m i g h t h a v e b e e n

2 1 p e r s o n i n v o l v e d o r such, so o n a n d s u c h f o r t h ,

22 t h a t you might h a v e f a c t o r s t o c h o o s e f r o m

23 b e f o r e y o u make your d e c i s i o n .

24 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes.

25 Q. Since to that extent, since we can't

26 g i v e you t h e f a c t s , these r u l e s a r e a c a t c h a l l

27 f o r any c a s e you might s e e ; w o u l d t h a t b e a

28 fair assessment?
\
29 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

30 Q. To t h a t e x t e n t , e v e n k n o w i n g t h a t you

31 h a v e c o n v i c t e d someone o f a n i n t e n t i o n a l

32 h o m i c i d e , w o u l d you s t i l l b e a b l e t o k e e p y o u r
 m i n d o p e n in t h e penalty phase t o h e a r a n y and

all evidence pertaining to the mitigating

factors or an aggravating circumstance before

y o u made up your mind?

A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) Yes, I w o u l d consider

b o t h o p t i o n s , but a g a i n , I l e a n h e a v i l y

t o w a r d s the d e a t h penalty.

Q. I t ' s okay t o d o t h a t , b u t w o u l d y o u

9 automatically exclude the life sentence?

10 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) No.

11 Q. Do you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

12 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) Yes.

13 Q. So do y o u f e e l that you c o u l d b e a
14 fair juror as to b o t h p e n a l t i e s i n t h e p e n a l t y
15 phase? A t the e n d o f a l l the e v i d e n c e , y o u

16 w i l l g e t t o make that f i n a l d e c i s i o n , b u t what

17 I want t o f i n d out i s whether y o u c o u l d b e a

ia juror that seriously - -

19 A. ( B y M r . Natale) I h a v e b e e n t h i n k i n g

20 h a r d on t h a t here, p a r t i c u l a r l y t h i s

21 a f t e r n o o n , working with p o l i c e o f f i c e r s ,

22 k n o w i n g prosecuto'rs, i t may b e d i f f i c u l t f o r

23 me t o - - I mean, I would c o n s i d e r b o t h , b u t b e

24 s t r o n g l y in f a v o r of the d e a t h p e n a l t y i n a

25 case like that.

26 Q. That's understandable.

27 A. ( B y M r . N a t a l e ) And g i v e n t h a t , I ' m

28 n o t s u r e based o n how I view i t , i f t h a t w o u l d

29 b e a - - i f that w o u l d b e a f a i r juror.

30 Q. Okay. So I ' m g o i n g t o a s k ' y o u

31 this - - and 1'll.accept whatever answer you

32 want g i v e - - d o you f e e l t h a t y o u c o u l d b e a
 1 f a i r j u r o r in a penalty p h a s e i n a c a s e o f

2 this nature?

3 A. (By Mr. N a t a l e ) No.

4 Q. Okay. Do you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t

5 that?

6 A. ( B y Mr. Natale) Yes.

7 Q. Is i t b a s e d on your w o r k w i t h l a w

a enforcement?

9 A. ( B y Mr. N a t a l e ) And my p e r s o n a l

10 beliefs.

11 MR. T H O M P S O N : Okay. Y o u r H o n o r , o n e

12 moment.

13 ( W h e r e u p o n a d i s c u s s i o n off t h e record w a s
b

14 held.)

15 MR. THOMPSON: M r . N a t a l e , t h a n k you

16 f o r y o u r answers.

17 I w i l l t e n d e r t o defense. c o u n s e l ,

18 Your Honor.

19 MR. G O L D E N : No que,stions, Y o u r H o n o r .

20 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You may

21 r e t u r n to C o u r t r o o m H , a n d we w i l l c a l l you

22 back shortly.

23 ( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d

24 f r o m the c o u r t r o o m . )

25 MR. G O L D E N : Y o u r H o n o r , m a y t h e record

26 r e f l e c t t h a t the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r s a r e

27 o u t s i d e the c o u r t r o o m . At t h i s t i m e , t h e

28 defense would challenge prospective juror

29 number one, Mark Natale, for cause pursuant to

30 Article 7 9 7 based u p o n the a n s w e r s t h a t h e

31 g a v e d u r i n g voir dire.

32 MR. T H O M P S O N : Your H o n o r , t h a t ' s

 I
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w i t h o u t objection. px%
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THE COURT: All right. B a s e d u p o n the
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r e s p o n s e s a n d the m o t i o n b y t h e d e f e n s e , n o
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( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d u3

f r o m the v e n i r e panel.)

MR. T H O M P S O N : We would request juror

(Whereupon the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s seated i n

the c o u r t r o o m . )

THE COURT: Ms. T h o r n t o n , w e c a l l e d you

i n t o a s k you few q u e s t i o n s o u t s i d e t h e

presence of the o t h e r j u r o r s .

Is the S t a t e r e a d y t o p r o c e e d .

MR. T H O M P S O N : We are, Your Honor.

FURTHER VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

BY M R . T H O M P S O N :
Q. G o o d afternoon a g a i n , M s . T h o r n t o n . I

w a n t e d t o d o a follow- up in r e g a r d s t o s o m e o f

t h e a n s w e r s g i v e t o Mr. G o l d e n in t h a t l a s t

round o f v o i r d i r e .

A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Urn-hum.

Q. N O W , d o you r e c a l l t h e l i n e of

q u e s t i o n i n g you a n d I h a d in t h e f i r s t r o u n d

of v o i r d i r e r e l a t e d t o c o n s i d e r i n g a l l t h e

e v i d e n c e , l o o k i n g a t the S t a t e ' s a g g r a v a t i n g

c i r c u m s t a n c e , l o o k i n g at the m i t i g a t i n g

f a c t o r s t h a t may or may n o t b e p r e s e n t e d ,

g i v i n g them t h e i r t o t a l w e i g h t , w a i t u n t i l y o u

s e e a l l t h e evidence t h a t is p r e s e n t e d , a l l

244
 .-

1 t h e a r g u m e n t s t h a t a r e made, and then

2 rendering a final decision?

3 A. (By M s . Thornton) Right.

4 Q. And d o y o u r e c a l l t h a t y o u i n d i c a t e d

5 that you c o u l d do that process?

6 A. (By M s . Thornton) I did, and I guess

7 maybe' I d i d n ' t u n d e r s t a n d e x a c t l y . I mea.n,

8 there are circumstances t h a t I would weigh,

9 y o u k n o w , my f e e l i n g s , I don't know how t o

10 explain it. I guess I felt l i k e after,he

11 explained it t h a t t h e m i t i g a t i n g ones, you g o t

12 t o that point, i t was e i t h e r h e was g u i l t y o r f

13 you know, l i k e you d i d n ' t h a v e t h a t many

14 choices.

15 Q. Okay.

16 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I don't know how t o

17 explain it.

18 Q. Well, l e t m e see i f I can bring it

19 back a n d b r e a k i t down a n d s e e i f you're a

20 j u r o r t h a t c o u l d serve i n t h e p e n a l t y phase.

A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Okay.

2'2 Q. Do y o u u n d e r s t a n d a s f a r a s t h e g u i l t

23 phase, the j u r y w i l l determine whether o r n o t

24 the defenda'nt i s g u i l t y o r n o t g u i l t y of first

25 degree murder?

26 A. (By M s . Thornton) R i g h t .

27 Q. To th.at e x t e n t , the jury finds the

28 evidence beyond a reasonable doubt t h a t the

29 d e f e n d a n t committed f i r s t degree m u r d e r ,

30 w h e t h e r h e was a p r i n c i p a l o r w h a t e v e r h i s

31 participation was, t h a t , g i v e s rise t o h i m

32 b e i n g g u i l t y of that charge, you t h e n g o i n t o

 e !.
--

.3

t h e p e n a l t y phase. Do you r e c a l l t h e f l o w

chart?

A. ( B y Ms. Thornton) R i g h t .

Q. In the penalty phase, the State gets

5 to p r e s e n t e v i d e n c e a s far as o u r a g g r a v a t i n g

6 c i r c u m s t a n c e s ; the d e f e n s e , if t h e y c h o o s e t o

7 d o so, c a n p r e s e n t any m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s they

8 wish t o put o n or they d o n ' t h a v e t'o p u t on

9 any mitigating factors. T h e y can r e l y o n t h e

10 mercy a r g u m e n t , o r they c a n r e l y o n a n y t h i n g

11 in t h e c a s e t h a t the jury c a n h a n g t h e i r h a t s

12 on a l i f e s e n t e n c e . Do y o u u n d e r s t a n d h o w t h a t

13 process works?

14 A. (By Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

15 Q. You recall in t h a t p r o c e s s , I a s k e d

16 w h e t h e r the j u r o r s c o u l d wait u n t i l t h e end of

17 a l l t h e e v i d e n c e before they m a k e a f i n a l

18 d e c i s i o n , a n d t h e n in t h a t p r o c e s s , t h e l a w

19 r e q u i r e s t h a t you c o n s i d e r a n y a n d a l l

20 m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s , and then y o u c a n a s s i g n

21 t h e m the a p p r o p r i a t e weight, a n d t h e n a f t e r

22 y o u ' v e h e a r d a l l the e v i d e n c e o f t h e c a s e ,

23 t h e n y o u c a n make a final d e c i s i o n ; d o y o u

24 understand that process?

25 A. ( B y M s . Thornton) Yes.

26 Q. Do you a g r e e with t h a t p r o c e s s ?

27 A. ( B y M s . Thornton) Y e s , I d o .

28 Q. Having then explained that now, as a

29 juror, you i n d i c a t e d , well, if t h e g u y

30 committed an intentional murder in the penalty

31 p h a s e a l o n g the l i n e o f M r . G o l d e n ' s

32 q u e s t i o n s , I c o u l d n ' t d o a life s e n t e n c e ; d o
you r e c a l l t h a t ?

A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) W e l l , m a y b e I

w a s n ' t u n d e r s t a n d i n g what h e w a s - - w h a t h e

was saying. But I mean, I w o u l d w a n t t o

l i s t e n t o e v e r y t h i n g b e f o r e I made m y

decision.

Q. Okay. Do you feel t h a t y o u c o u l d d o

t h a t i f y o u were s e l e c t e d a s a j u r o r in t h i s

case?

A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I think so.

Q. Listen t o a l l e v i d e n c e b e f o r e y o u

make a final decision?

A. ( B y M s . Thornton) Yes.

Q. Did you s t i l l f e e l l i k e y o u w o u l d b e
a j u r o r t h a t c o u l d c o n s i d e r any a n d a l l

mitigating factors?

A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) I could consider

them.

Q. Do you feel t h a t you c o u l d a s s i g n

them the appropriate weight that you deem them

fit?

A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

Q. Do you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

Q. N o w , you d o u n d e r s t a n d w i t h t h e s e

r u l e s a n d what we're t h r o w i n g o u t t o y o u , they

a r e a c a t c h a l l for any c a s e you m i g h t s e e . So

e v e n t h o u g h an a t t o r n e y c o m e s t o y o u a n d s a y s ,

well, y o u ' v e c o n v i c t e d h i m o f f i r s t d e g r e e

m u r d e r f o r a robbery o r a k i d n a p p i n g , y o u

d o n ' t k n o w a s a juror yet w h e t h e r h e w a s a

p r i n c i p a l , w h e t h e r he was the g e t a w a y d r i v e r ,
 --.

what his involvement is; would that be a fair

I 2 statement?

1 3 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Right.

4 Q. So to that extent, even though you

5 c o n v i c t e d s o m e o n e o f a c r i m e of t h a t n a t u r e ,

6 d o you f e e l like you c o u l d g o i n t o t h e p e n a l t y

7 phase as a juror and follow those applicable

~

8 l a w s a n d w a i t u n t i l you h e a r a l l t h e e v i d e n c e

9 before you make a f i n a l decision?

10 A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

11 Q. A n d to t h a t e x t e n t , w o u l d an

12 individual if even he's convicted of that

13 c h a r g e s t i l l h a v e a serious option for a l i f e

14 s e n t e n c e with you d e p e n d i n g on what c o m e s o u t

15 in t h e p e n a l t y p h a s e ?

16 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

17 Q. D o y o u feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

18 A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

19 Q. So y o u s e e h o w i t ' s s e t u p n o w ? Does

20 that clear it up?

2 1 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

22 Q. T o t h a t e x t e n t , you feel s t r o n g a b o u t

23 your answers?

24 A. ( B y M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

25 Q. Do you h a v e a n y o t h e r q u e s t i o n s o r

26 any other clarifications I could make?

27 A. ( B y M s . Thornton) N o .

28 MR. THOMPSON: M s . T h o r n t o n , thank you

29 for y o u r a n s w e r s .

30 Your Honor, I'll t e n d e r t h e w i t n e s s .

31

32

248

5964
 1 FURTHER VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

2 BY M R . GOLDEN:

3 Q. Ms. Thornton.

5
A.

Q.
(By M s .

If
T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

I c o n f u s e d you i n a n y way, I'm

I
6 sorry.

7 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Well, it's just I'm

8 nervous t o s t a r t with.

9 Q. L e t m e t e l l m e you s o m e t h i n g . Most

10 of u s a t t o r n e y s have been d o i n g t h i s f o r

11 years, and w e still get nervous every t i m e .

I
12 They s a y o n c e you s t o p g e t t i n g n e r v o u s , it's

13 time t o quit. I t ' s o k a y t o be n e r v o u s , but

14 w h a t I w a n t t o be s u r e i s t h a t w e a r e t a l k i n g

15

16
about the s a m e

In order
thing.

for you t o even decide

I
17 whether somebody g e t s l i f e o r d e a t h , there has

18 t o be a c o n v i c t i o n o f f i r s t degree murder.

19 And t h i s i s o n e o f t h e s l i d e s t h a t I showed,

20 i t ' s called Slide C, capital t r i a l procedure.

21 I t ' s a number four, under p a r t C, it says i f

22 the penalty phase i s reached, it means you d i d

23 convict h i m of f i r s t degree murder. And t h a t

24 means, i t ' s n o t a case where t h e p e r s o n k i l l e d

25 ' i n self- defense, was legally intoxicated,

26 killed i n the heat of blood, was accidental or

27 he d i d n ' t mean i t . A n d w h e t h e r h e i s a

28 principal or not, the l a w says that i n order

29 t o be c o n v i c t e d o f first degree murder, he had

30 t o i n t e n d t h e murder. H e meant t o k i l l or t o

31 i n f l i c t great b o d i l y harm.

32 So a n example of -- I don't know

249
 1 about a getaway car driver because he wouldn't

2 be there intending to kill him. ' Let's s a y t w o

3 people g o in to rob the bank, and l e t ' s s a y , I

4 am the ring leader, a n d I h a v e my p a r t n e r who

5 is collecting all the money, and he h a s gun.

Even though I d o n ' t have the gun, I t e l l him

before we leave, g o ahead and s h o o t e v e r y b o d y .

Okay. Did I have the intent to k i l l ?

A. (By Ms. Thornton) Yes.

10 Q. Because I gave t h e order, e v e n t h o u g h

11 I d i d n ' t actually pull the trigger. I f there

12 is a guy outside in the getaway c a r , a n d he

13 d o e s n ' t know what's going on, he wouldn't have

14 the intent to kill, but if I am g i v i n g the

15 order o r I am actually pulling the t r i g g e r , we

16 b o t h have the same intent and t h a t ' s t o k i l l

17 o r commit g r e a t bodily harm.

18 A. (By M s . Thornton) Y e s ,

19 Q. Do you understand that?

20 A. (By M s . Thornton) Yes.

21 Q. So i f we reached a first d e g r e e

22 murder verdict, that means whether a person

23 actually physically did the killing o r helped

24 d o the killing, he meant to kill. His intent,

25 s t a t e o f mind, we're talking intent, w a s to

26 k i l l or to inflict great bodily h a r m a n d the

27 victim died. These are the kinds o f c a s e s we

28 are talking about for a penalty p h a s e .

29 I f there is no intent to kill, l i k e

30 he is the getaway car driver and the b a n k

31 robbery just g o e s crazy, you k n o w t h a t

32 happens.
 A. (By M s . Thornton) Right.

Q. He i s not guilty of first. He has t o

have that specific intent to kill. Okay. So

I what I need to know from you is, if we reach

5 t h a t point i n the penalty phase i t i s b e c a u s e

6 in finding him guilty of first degree murder,

7 you're saying he had that intent to kill. For

8 somebody like that, could you impose a life

9 sentence?
10 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I c o u l d , but maybe

11 this is where I'm not following through. I

12 felt like I could, but I still would want t o

13 hear mitigation. I would want to hear

14 everything i n v o l v e d i n it before I m a d e my

15 final decision.

16 Q. Okay.

17 A. (By M s . Thornton) Like I said, I d o

18 strongly, you know, go for the death penalty,

19 that was my answer on that, but I also am

20 open. I mean, I would want to hear everything

21 that was involved in it before I made a final

22 decision on that.

23 Q. Can you think of any kind of, I ' m not

24 going t o say situation, but any defendant'

25 where you would not just consider but actually

26 impose a life sentence?'

27 A. (By M s . Thornton) Well, I know if

28 children are involved, it's - - it would depend

29 on the - - what was going on. I know a death

30 is a death, but I know there can be things

31 going on with someone, you know, that might

32 have caused that or maybe something going in

251
 1 h i s family, y o u know, i t ' s j u s t -- I d o n ' t

2 know. M a y b e I ' m g o i n g b a c k t o s o m e o n e i n my

3 l i f e t h a t I know t h a t was r a i s e d , you know,

4 c o r r e c t l y , t h e right way, b u t y o u k n o w , I

5 g u e s s I k i n d of have feelings f o r people t h a t

6 do wrong.

7 Q. Um-hum.

8 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) And I a l s o f e e l

9 l i k e t h e y should not do it, and i f t h e y do,

10 then they need to be punished.

11 Q. C o u l d you h a v e empathy f o r somebody

12 who w a s r a i s e d a n d h a d a t e r r i b l e l i f e g r o w i n g

13 up?

14 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Well, I ' m sure I

15 could.

16 Q. NO W, you m e n t i o n e d t h a t you w e r e

17 raised right. D i d y o u h a v e g o o d p a r e n t s who

18 r a i s e d you r i g h t ?

19 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

20 Q. Have you e v e r h e a r d t h e e x p r e s s i o n

21 " b u t f o r t h e grace of God g o I " ?

22 A. (By M s . Thornton) Y e s .
I
23 Q. You w e r e f o r t u n ' a t e . You w o u l d a g r e e

24 that not everybody i s t h a t f o r t u n a t e ?

25 A. (By M s . Thornton) Yes.

26 Q. C o u l d you c o n s i d e r t h e m i t i g a t i n g

27 circumstance of being raised i n a terrible and

28 unfortunate childhood?

29 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yeah, I wouldn't

30 k n o w how t h a t w o u l d f e e l , but I know t h e r e ' s a

31 l o t of children out t h e r e t h a t are raised i n

32 that situation.
 !
- 0
! Q. Could you ever see yourself i m p o s i n g
~ a life sentence for an intentional k i l l e r

because o f that?

A. (By Ms. Thornton) Because o f the way

t h a t person was raised?

Q* Yeah.
A. (By Ms. Thornton) I'm not s u r e . I

think sometimes you can overcome some of that.

You know, being raised in a b a d s i t u a t i o n

d o n ' t mean you always have to s t a y there.

Q. Sure. would you want to k n o w i f he

h a d any opportunities and chances t o o v e r c o m e

it?

A. (By M s . Thornton) Yes.

Q. That, too, would be i m p o r t a n t t o y o u ?

A. (By M s . Thornton) Yes.
Q. Well, t h a t ' s a good point. Thank

you. So as I understand you now, you c o u l d

consider imposing a life sentence f o r s o m e o n e

w h o intentionally kills another, you w o u l d

want to know all the evidence.

A. (By M s . Thornton) Right.

Q. Y.ou would consider their b a c k g r o u n d ?

A. (By M s . Thornton) Right.

Q. You would consider their u p b r i n g i n g .

You would not only want to know was i t a b a d

upbringing but i f he had any c h a n c e s to escape

it?

A. (By M s . Thornton) Also, I t h i n k

remorse would have something t o d o w i t h it.

Q. Let me g o back to what you s a i d a b o u t

you s t i l l lean strongly toward the d e a t h

I
I 1 p e n a l t y , w o u l d t h a t cause y o u t o h a v e

2 substantial difficulty imposing a life

3 sentence?

4 A. (By Ms. Thornton) That's a question 1

5 d o n ' t ' r e a l l y know h o w to a n s w e r b e c a u s e I

6 w o u l d s t i l l , I w o u l d j u s t n'eed t o h e a r what

7 the c i r c u m s t a n c e s were.

8 Q. I g u e s s what I a m a s k i n g y o u r i g h t

9 now, would you presume t h a t a l i f e s e n t e n c e i s

10 t h e r i g h t s e n t e n c e a n d then require us to

11 p r o v e why h e s h o u l d b e - - I m e a n , a d e a t h

12 s e n t e n c e s h o u l d b e the r i g h t s e n t e n c e a n d

13 r e q u i r e us t o o v e r c o m e t h a t p r e s u m p t i o n t o

14 p r o v e t o you why i t s h o u l d b e a l i f e s e n t e n c e ?

15 A. (By Ms. Thornton) (No response.)

16 Q. Do you u n d e r s t a n d t h a t q u e s t i o n ?

17 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) A g a i n , I can't

18 answer right now how I would, how I would say.

19 Q. Okay. But you c o u l d c o n s i d e r imposing

20 a life sentence?

21 A. ( B y Ms. T h o r n t o n ) I c o u l d .

22 Q. And you c a n reasonably d o i t ; w o u l d

23 t h a t b e fai'r to s a y ? Could you?

24 A. (By Ms. Thornton) I feel like I

25 could.

26 Q. Again, I a p o l o g i z e for p u t t i n g y o u o n

27 the spot. You u n d e r s t a n d why we h a d t o d e l v e

28 into this?

29 A. (By M s . T h o r n t o n ) Yes.

30 MR. G O L D E N : T h a n k y o u f o r y o u r time.

31 MR. T H O M P S O N : No further questions.

32 THE COURT: Thank you. You may return

255

5 9 '7 .!
 I ..-,,:
.

1 outside. W e will c a l l you b a c k s h o r t l y .

2 ( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d

3 from the courtroom.)

4 MR. G O L D E N : Your H o n o r , a t t h i s t i m e ,

5 we would l i k e to call -- do you want to c a l l

I
6 him?

7 MR. T H O M P S O N : Yes, Your Honor, I would

I
8 l i k e t o c a l l juror n u m b e r six,' M r . W a l k e r .

9 THE'COURT: A n y m o t i o n s with r e s p e c t to
I
10 Ms. Thornton?
11 MR. G O L D E N : Your H o n o r , t h e d e f e n s e

12 would move to challenge Mr. Walker for cause.

13 (Whereupon a discussion off the record was

14 held. )

15 MR. G O L D E N : There is no challenge.

16 THE COURT: All right.

17 (Whereupon the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r ' w a s s e a t e d in

18 the courtroom.)

19 T H E COURT: Mr. W a l k e r , we j u s t h a d

20 y o u b r o u g h t in t o a s k you a f e w q u e s t i o n s

21 o u t s i d e the p r e s e n c e o f t h e o t h e r j u r o r s .

22 Is the S t a t e r e a d y t o p r o c e e d .

23 MR. THOMPSON: Yes, Your Honor.

24

25 FURTHER VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

26 B Y MR. T H O M P S O N :

27 Q. G o o d a f t e r n o o n a g a i n , Mr. W a l k e r .

28 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Good afternoon.

29 Q. Mr. Walker, I wanted to bring you

30 b a c k in a p r i v a t e setting h e r e in a n

31 individual capacity to clear up some answers

32 y o u g a v e t o Mr. Golden which I f e l t w e r e

 ~~

1 c o n f l i c t i n g t o your e a r l i e r a n s w e r s i n t h e

2 i n i t i a l r o u n d of voir dilre t o t h e h y p o t h e t s I

3 gave you.

4 Do you recall in my e a r l i e r

5 examination when I a s k e d you, e v e n i f s o m e o n e

6 was c o n v i c t e d o f first d e g r e e m u r d e r , when you

7 g o t o the p e n a l t y p h a s e , j u r o r s a r e s u p p o s e d

a t o k e e p an o p e n m i n d a s t o e i t h e r p e n a l t y , t o

9 look to the State's aggravating circumstance

10 a n d t h e n t o consider a n y a n d all relevant

11 m i t i g a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e s o r f a c t o r s t h a t the

12 d e f e n s e may elect to p u t o n , o r e v e n i f t h e y

13 d o n ' t p u t a n y t h i n g on a n d they a s k f o r a p l e a

14 of m e r c y , t h e jury i s s u p p o s e d t o c o n s i d e r a l l

15 t h a t a n d t a k e a l l the e v i d e n c e in before t h e y
16 m a k e a final decision? Do you recall that
17 l i n e o f q u e s t i o n i n g we h a d ?

18 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

19 Q. A n d earlier in t h a t l i n e of

20 q u e s t i o n i n g , you i n d i c a t e d t h a t y o u c o u l d

21 follow that process.

22 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Um- hum.

23 Q. N o w , when M r . G o l d e n a s k e d y o u i n a

24 follow-up if someone was convicted of an

25 i n t e n t i o n a l k i l l i n g along t h e l i n e s o f t h e

26 c i r c u m s t a n c e s we i n d i c a t e d d u r i n g a r o b b e r y o r

27 a k i d n a p p i n g or an a r s o n o r t h e a t t e m p t t o

28 k i l l m o r e t h a n o n e p e r s o n , you i n d i c a t e d t h a t

29 y o u w o u l d n ' t i m p o s e a life s e n t e n c e , t h a t

30 deat,h w o u l d be the only a p p r o p r i a t e

31 p u n i s h m e n t ; d o you r e c a l l t h a t l i n e o f

32 questioning?

257
5973
 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

Q. A n d d o you s e e w h e r e t h e r e m i g h t b e a

d i f f e r e n c e in y o u r s t a t e m e n t s , a n d t h a t ' s what

I w a n t e d to e x p l o r e ?

A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) O k a y . I t h i n k I see

what y o u ' r e t a l k i n g about, b u t t h e b o t t o m l i n e

to t h i n k i n g is, Yes I if there is

circumstances that would warrant a life

sentence, yes.

Q. Okay.

A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) I t was l i k e I was

t e l l i n g y o u b e f o r e , i f it's c l e a r - c u t , a l l the

evidence leads to that death, the death

penalty - -
Q. Okay.

A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) - - t h a t ' s w h a t I w a s

trying to say. I might h a v e g o t t e n c o n f u s e d a

w h i l e a g o , b u t t h a t ' s the b o t t o m l i n e .

Q. Okay.

A. ( B y M r . Walker) Any t y p e o f

circumstances that could cause another

situation, yes, I would have to look at that.

Q. L e t me a s k you this: In g o i n g b a c k

t o h o w the s e t - u p i s in L o u i s i a n a l a w in

r e f e r e n c e t o the penalty p h a s e , we h a d e a r l i e r

i n d i c a t e d t h a t the j u r o r s g o t h r o u g h a g u i l t

p h a s e , w h e r e they d e t e r m i n e d w h e t h e r t h e S t a t e

has proven beyond a reasonable doubt whether

t h e d e f e n d a n t i s g u i l t y of f i r s t d e g r e e

.,murder; d o you r e c a l l t h a t p r o c e s s ?

A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Um-hum.,

Q. N o w , in t h a t p r o c e s s , t h e j u r o r s w i l l
 a c t u a l l y h e a r t h e f a c t s a n d circumstances of

the case.

A. ( B y M r . Walker) Right.

Q. A n d y o u w i l l l e a r n what t y p e o f

murder a c t u a l l y happened.
I 6 A. ( B y Mr. Walker) Okay.

Q. And there is a wide range of facts

and circumstances that the jury might hear;

w o u l d y o u a g r e e with t h a t ?

10 A. (By Mr. Walker) Um-hum.

11 Q. So o n c e you g e t to the penalty phase,

12 if t h e j u r y c o n v i c t s the d e f e n d a n t o f f i r s t

13 d e g r e e m u r d e r , they may f i n d t h a t h e a c t e d a s

1 4 a p r i n c i p a l t o the c r i m e , he m i g h t not have

15 b e e n the t r i g g e r m a n or t h e p e r s o n t h a t d i d t h e

16 a c t u a l l y killing, but h e ' s a p r i n c i p a l t o the

17 c r i m e . T h e jury d o e s n ' t k n o w w h a t t h e y ' r e

18 g o i n g t o hear y e t .

19 A. ( B y Mr. Walker) R i g h t .

20 Q. So that's why y o u k e e p an o p e n m i n d

21 g o i n g i n t o the penalty p h a s e ; d o y o u a g r e e

22 with that?

23 A. ' ( B y M r . Walker) Yes.

24 Q. When you g e t to the penallty p h a s e ,

25 L o u i s i a n a l a w r e q u i r e s that you l o o k t o t h e

26 State's aggravating circumstance and then you

27 c o n s i d e r any or a l l m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s t h a t

28 a r e p r e s e n t e d e v e n if i t ' s j u s t a p l e a o f

29 mercy and there's no mitigating factors

' 30 presented; do you recall that?

31 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

32 Q. And that the j u r o r s g i v e t h e

 ~ ~

1 a p p r o p r i a t e weight t o whatever i s p r e s e n t e d .

2 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) R i g h t .

3 Q. N o w , a t t h e end of a l l t h e e v i d e n c e ,

4 t h e j u r y can l o o k at e v e r y t h i n g t h e y
5 p e r c e i v e d , a l l the e v i d e n c e i n the g u i l t

6 p h a s e , a l l the e v i d e n c e in t h e p e n a l t y p h a s e .

7 T h e y g o b a c k i n t o the d e l i b e r a t i o n r o o m a n d

8 then they make a decision which sentence is

9 a p p r o p r i a t e in t h e situation we have j u s t
10 r e c e i v e d , e i t h e r the d e a t h p e n a l t y o r lif'e

11 i m p r i s o n m e n t ; d o you f o l l o w t h a t ?

12 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

13 Q. Do you agree with h o w t h a t ' s s e t u p ?

14 A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) Y e s .

15 Q. To t h a t e x t e n t you m i g h t b e d e a l i n g

16 with a n i n t e n t i o n a l k i l l i n g or s o m e o n e w h o

17 c o m m i t t e d an i n t e n t i o n a l h o m i c i d e ; d o y o u

18 a g r e e with t h a t ?

19 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

20 Q. To t h a t e x t e n t , n o t k n o w i n g w h a t t y p e

21 o f c a s e you may g e t or what t y p e o f

22 c i r c u m s t a n c e s you may s e e , c a n y o u e n v i s i o n a

23 s c e n a r i o w h e r e s o m e t h i n g in the c a s e may l e a d

24 a juror to say this case deserves a life

25 sentence?

26 A. (By Mr. Walker) Yes, I can see that.

27 Q. And on the f l i p s i d e , t h e j u r y may say

28 after considering everything, I think the

29 d e a t h penalty i s a p p r o p r i a t e ?

30 A. ( B y M r . .Walker) R i g h t .

31 Q. So in t h a t s c e n a r i o , w o u l d y o u b e

32 a b l e t o f o l l o w L o u i s i a n a law a n d l o o k t o the
 a g g r a v a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e a n d c o n s i d e r a l l the

m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s that may b e p r e s e n t e d , g i v e

l them their appropriate weight and to consider

~
a l l t h e e v i d e n c e b e f o r e y o u make a f i n a l
I
decision?

A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) R i g h t , I c o u l d .

Q. Do you feel like you c o u l d d o t h a t

process?

9 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

10 Q. D o you f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t t h a t ?

11 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Um- hum.

12 Q. I n e e d you t o a n s w e r y e s o r n o for

13 the court reporter.

14 A. ( B y Mr. Walker) Yes.

15 Q. So t o t h a t e x t e n t , w o u l d i t b e f a i r I

16 to say that even though someone is convicted

17 of a n i n t e n t i o n a l k i l l i n g in t h e g u i l t p h a s e

18 that you would still be able to keep an open

19 m i n d a s t o b o t h punishments?

20 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Right.

21 Q. Until you h a v e h e a r d a l l t h e

22 e v i d e n c e , e v e n t h o u g h you a r e d e a l i n g with

23 s o m e o n e w h o intentionally k i l l e d a n o t h e r

24 person?
(.
25 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Right.

26 Q. Do you feel s t r o n g l y a b o u t that?

27 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

28 Q. So w o u l d it f a i r t o s a y t h a t y o u

29 c o u l d i m p o s e a life s e n t e n c e o n s o m e o n e w h o i s

30 c o n v i c t e d o f first degree m u r d e r ?

31 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Y e s , I c o u l d .

32 Q. D o e s t h a t c l e a r i t u p f o r y o u in

261
 I +l:
;

reference to those two rounds of questioning?

A. (By Mr. W a l k e r ) Yeah, I t h i n k so.

MR. THOMPSON: Okay.

(Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e r e c o r d was

held.)

MR. T H O M P S O N : Mr. W a l k e r , t h a n k you

f o r y o u r answers.

I will t e n d e r the juror.

10 FURTHER VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

11 BY MR. THORNTON.

12 Q. M r . W a l k e r , you t o l d m e e a r l i e r t h a t

13 i f y o u w e r e a hundred- percent c o n v i n c e d t h a t

14 the person committed the crime.

/

15 A. (By Mr. Walker) Right.

16 Q. T h a t you w o u l d w a n t ' t o p u t h i m t o

17 death.

18 A. (By Mr. Walker) Right.

19 Q. N o w , we a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t ''the" c r i m e

20 a n d we a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t a g g r a v a t i n g a n d

2 1 mitigating circumstances. We have talked

22 a b o u t a l o t of things. Mr. Thompson talked

23 a b o u t a l o t of t h i n g s t o y o u .

24 I want t o a s k you s o m e v e r y s i m p l e

25 questions. O k a y . T h e f i r s t t h i n g is, i f we

26 a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t a first d e g r e e m u r d e r , w e

27 are talking about somebody who meant to kill.

28 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Right.

29 Q. Do you u n d e r s t a n d t h a t ?

30 A. (By Mr. Walker) Right.

31 Q. It's an intentional killing during a

32 r o b b e r y , a rape, a k i d n a p p i n g , o r a n o t h e r
 1 s e r i o u s o f f e n s e ; d o you u n d e r s t a n d t h a t ?

2 A. ( B y Mr. Walker) Yes.

3 Q. We are not talking about an

4 accidental killing.
5 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Right.
6 Q. W e are n o t t a l k i n g a b o u t k i l l i n g in

7 self-defense. We a r e t a l k i n g a b o u t a k i l l i n g

8 w h e r e the p e r s o n meant t o kilL t h e v i c t i m .

9 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes'.
10 Q. I t d o e s n ' t mean t h a t h e w o u l d

11 n e c e s s a r i l y h a v e t o b e the o n e t h a t a c t u a l l y

12 p h y s i c a l l y k i l l e d them, b u t h e h a s t o h a v e

13 meant to kill them, too. An e x a m p l e w o u l d b e

14 in an armed r o b b e r y of a b a n k , y o u h a v e t w o
15 people. O n e a c t u a l l y has the g u n , and t h e ,

16 o t h e r o n e i s a l s o actually the l e a d e r . And

17 t h e o n e w i t h the g u n c a n - - the l e a d e r can

18 s a y , s h o o t t h e m , I d o n ' t want t o l e a v e a n y

19 witnesses behind.

20 A. ( B y Mr. Walker) R i g h t .

21 Q. So the g u y with the g u n s h o o t s t h e

22 victim. Did b o t h people h a v e i n t e n t ?

23 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

24 Q. B o t h o f them are j u s t a s guilty.

25 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

26 Q. Okay. T h e y are j u s t a s g u i l t y , t h e y

27 b o t h h a d t h e intent t o k i l l .

28 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Exactly.

29 Q. N o w , for somebody l i k e t h a t , c o u l d

30 you e v e r s e e yourself i m p o s i n g a l i f e s e n t e n c e

31 if you w e r e o n e - h u n d r e d - p e r c e n t s u r e t h e y d i d

32 it?
, 1 A. (By M r . Walker) If t h e y were a

hundred percent, yeah.

.
Q. A hundred percent what?

4 A. (By M r . Walker) A hundred p e r c e n t the

5 d e a t h penalty . '

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. (By M r . Walker) T h a t ' s what I said

8 before, i t ' s g o t t o be o n e h u n d r e d p e r c e n t .

9 Q. If you are c o n v i n c e d t h a t h e a c t u a l l y

10 either k i l l e d o r i n t e n d e d to k i l l by g i v i n g a n

11 order o r something l i k e that.

12 A. (By M r . Walker) (No response.)

13 Q. The d e a t h p e n a l t y i s t h e o n l y

14 sentence f o r you?
15 A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

16 Q. P r e t t y much a u t o m a t i c .

17 A. (By M r . Walker) Yes.

18 MR. GOLDEN: Thank you.

19 MR. THOMPSON: Your Honor, may I f o l l o w

20

21 THE COURT: You m a y .

22

23 FURTHER V O I R DIRE EXAMINATION

24 BY MR. THOMPSON:

25 Q. M r . Walker, when does t h i s d e c i s i o n

26 c o m e i n t o p l a y f o r y o u a s f a r a s how w e s e t u p

27 this?

28 A. (By M r . Walker) When d o e s i t c o m e

29 into play?

30 Q. Yes. Would i t come i n t o p l a y a f t e r

31 you've heard a l l the evidence?

32 A. (By M r . Walker) Yes.

 Q. Okay.

A. (By Mr. Walker) You've got to hear

e v e r y t h i n g t o a b l e t o weight i t .

Q. So i n o t h e r words, even under

Mr. G o l d e n ' s s c e n a r i o , w h e r e y o u ' r e d e a l i n g

with s o m e o n e w h o walks i n t o a b a n k o r s t o r e

and shot a clerk and took off in the robbery,

w o u l d y o u s t i l l wait t o see what e v i d e n c e i s

9 presented in t h e p e n a l t y p h a s e ?
10 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes, I would.

11 Q. For instance, l e t ' s s a y in t h a t

12 scenario, the defense presented mitigation to

13 the fact that he might have been suffering

14 from a mental disease or h e might h a v e h a d a
15 b a d c h i l d h o o d o r h e might h a v e b e e n a y o u t h f u l

16 offender who couldn't appreciate the

17 seriousness of the circumstances, would you be

18 a b l e t o c o n s i d e r those f a c t o r s b e f o r e y o u m a d e

19 that final decision?

20 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

21 Q. C o u l d you e n v i s i o n a s c e n a r i o w h e r e

22 t h e r e m i g h t b e a factor t h a t e v e n t h o u g h

23 t h a t ' s s u c h a h o r r i b l e c r i m e , y o u may s a y t o

24 y o u r s e l f well, based o n t h i s f a c t o r , I b e l i e v e

25 t h i s c a s e d e s e r v e s a life s e n t e n c e ?

26 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

27 Q. Okay. So the d e c i s i o n t o i m p o s e a

28 d e a t h p e n a l t y , as you s t a t e d , i f y o u ' r e a

29 hundred-percent sure of the crime, would that

30 c o m e a t the e n d o f a l l the e v i d e n c e p r e s e n t e d ?

31 A. (By Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

32 Q. So you wouldn't m a k e t h a t d e c i s i o n in

265

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1 1 guilt phase, would you?

I 2 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Hum- um.

I 3 Q. K i n d of what M r . G o l d e n h a s o u t l i n e d

in this, the crime itself.

A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

Q. W o u l d y o u wait t o c o n s i d e r a l l t h e

m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s that may b e p r e s e n t e d ?

A. (By Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes, I w o u l d h a v e t o

9 hear everything.

10 Q. So w o u l d a l i f e s e n t e n c e s t i l l b e a

11 s e r i o u s o p t i o n e v e n in the s c e n a r i o l i k e t h a t ?

12 A. (By Mr. Walker) Yes, a life sentence

13 would be a serious option.

14 Q. Okay. And y o u f e e l s t r o n g l y a b o u t

15 that?

16 A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

17 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Walker.

18 MR. GOLDEN: Your H o n o r , o n e l a s t

19 follow- up.

20 THE COURT: You m a y .

21

22 F U R T H E R VOIR DIRE E X A M I N A T I O N

23 BY MR. GOLDEN:

24 Q. Mr. W a l k e r , as I h e a r y o u , y o u w o u l d

25 c o n s i d e r a l l o f the evidence.

26 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

27 Q. W e i g h a l l the f a c t o r s ?

28 A. (By Mr. Walker) (Juror nods head.)

29 Q. Listen t o the e n d o f t h e c a s e , b u t i f

30 you're a hundred-percent convinced that he

31 intentionally killed another during a robbery,

32 r a p e o r k i d n a p p i n g , what w o u l d y o u r v e r d i c t
 be?

A. (By Mr. Walker) D e a t h p e n a l t y .

MR. GOLDEN: That's all.

MR. T H O M P S O N : Your H o n o r , s o m e b r i e f

follow-up.

THE COURT: You m a y .

F U R T H E R VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

BY M R . T H O M P S O N :

10 Q. Mr. Walker, to that extent, t h o u g h ,

11 a n d Mr. G o l d e n t e l l i n g you t h a t if y o u ' r e a

12 h u n d r e d - p e r c e n t s u r e t h a t t h i s case d e s e r v e s

13 t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , then y o u w o u l d i m p o s e the

14 death penalty; is that correct? I S that a fair

15 statement?

16 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes.

17 Q. And would t h a t d e c i s i o n c o m e a f t e r

ia you d e l i b e r a t e d with your f e l l o w j u r o r s ?

19 A. ( B y M r . W a l k e r ) Yes.

20 Q. Okay. So in t h a t p r o c e s s , i s t h a t

21 i n c l u d i n g t a k i n g i n a l l the e v i d e n c e t h a t you

22 might hear?

23 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) R i g h t .

24 Q. Okay. So when y o u s a y a h u n d r e d -

25 p e r c e n t s u r e , i s t h a t sta'ting a f t e r y o u h a v e

26 c o n s i d e r e d a l l the m i t i g a t i n g f a c t o r s , l o o k e d

27 at the aggravating circumstance, you are now a

28 one-hundred percent sure that this case

29 deserves the death penalty?

30 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) Yes. '

31 Q. So that w o u l d be t h e d e c i s i o n a f t e r

32 you h a v e c o n s i d e r e d e v e r y t h i n g i n t h e c a s e ?
 c
\

@ 'd'

A. (By M r . W a l k e r ) Right.

Q. Would that be a decision that you

w o u l d p r e m a t u r e l y make b e f o r e y o u d e l i b e r a t e d
I
4 w i t h your fellow j u r o r s ?

5 A. ( B y Mr. W a l k e r ) No, I c o u l d n ' t d o i t .

I
I 6 Q. So i s that the c e r t a i n t y l e v e l t h a t

~ 7 y o u ' r e r e a c h i n g in r e f e r e n c e t o a l l t h e

8 e v i d e n c e t h a t you h a v e c o n s i d e r e d ?

9 A. ( B y Mr. Walker) Things have to be

I 10 together, yes.

11 MR. T H O M P S O N : Thank you, Mr. Walker.

12 T h a t ' s a l l the q u e s t i o n s I have.

13 THE C O U R T : Any follow-up by t h e

14 defense?

15 MR. GOLDEN: Your H o n o r , o n e l a s t

16 question.

17

18 FURTHER VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

19 B Y MR. G O L D E N :

20 Q. You s a i d you w o u l d wait u n t i l a l l t h e

21 e v i d e n c e i s in. You w o u l d d i s c u s s i t a n d

22 deliberate with a l l your jurors. But if

23 you're a hundred-percent convinced that he

24 intentionally killed another, what would your

25 verdict be?

26 A. ( B y Mr. Walker), It w o u l d b e d e a t h .

27 MR. G O L D E N : . N o f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s .

28 MR. THOMPSON: No f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s .

29 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You may be

30 e x c u s e d , a n d we w i l l c a l l y o u b a c k s h o r t l y .

3 1 (Whereupon the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d

32 from the c o u r t r o o m . )

268
 1 MR. GOLDEN: Let the record reflect

2 that the prospective juror, Danny Ray Walker,

3 is out of the courtroom. There are no

4 prospective jurors p r e s e n t . At this time, I

5 w o u l d m o v e to c h a l l e n g e M r . W a l k e r for cause

6 on the grounds that if a first degree murder

7 has b e e n p r o v e n b e y o n d a r e a s o n a b l e d o u b t ,

8 t h a t t h e o n l y 'sentence for h i m w o u l d b e d e a t h ,

9 a l t h o u g h he would c o n s i d e r a l l mitigating
10 circumstances, he w o u l d l i s t e n t o a l l
11 evidence, he would wait until the e n d of the

12 c a s e , f o r h i m e v e n a f t e r all t h a t , t h e o n l y

13 verdict for h i m would be death which means h e

1 4 cannot be fair and impartial. H e w o u l d be

15 classify as what we call a reverse W i t h e r s p o o n

16 or at best a reverse W h i t t juror. One, he

17 can't reasonably consider a life sentence;

,18 two, he can't - - or his view on the death

19 penalty would impair him from making an

20 impartial decision. So w e w o u l d m o v e t o

2 1 challenge for him for cause.

22 MR. T H O M P S O N : W e would respectfully

23 object. And I disagree with Mr. Golden's

24 assertion as to his comments on if a first

25 degree murder is proven to a hundred-percent

26 certainty that he would automatically vote for

27 death. The juror was clear in indicating

28 after hearing all the evidence in the penalty

29 phase, after looking to the State's

30 aggravating circumstance and considering any

3 1 and all relevant mitigating factors and giving

32 them their appropriate weight, only then and

269

5985
even after a further l i n e of questioning that
1;
he would w a i t t o deliberate w i t h h i s f e l l o w [I:.$
11CI

jurors only then, i f h e was a h u n d r e d - p e r c e n t I%’

Cd

certain of a l l the evidence and as t o t h e

crime, t h e n he w o u l d r e n d e r a d e a t h p e n a l t y .
1; c3
H e i n d i c a t e d t h a t a l i f e s e n t e n c e would s t i l l I ;,$

be a s e r i o u s o p t i o n e v e n u n d e r the hypothet

given by M r . G o l d e n t o t h e armed r o b b e r y i n

w h i c h M r . G o l d e n e a r l i e r g o t h i m to c o m m i t t o

the hundred- percent phrase which I believe t h e

j u r o r i n c o r r e c t l y w a s a s s u m i n g - - was

referring to the guilty phase. As t o that,

Y o u r Honor, the juror has indicated that he

would c o n s i d e r a l l evidence i n t h e p e n a l t y

phase b e f o r e he w o u l d make a final decision

w h i c h I b e l i e v e more t h a n q u a l i f i e s h i m t o

serve a s a j u r o r i n t h i s case.

THE COURT: Any f u r t h e r a r g u m e n t ?

MR. GOLDEN: No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: A l l right. A f t e r listening

t o t h e responses of t h e p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r , it

appears a s t h o u g h t h e j u r o r c a n keep a n open

mind, that under c e r t a i n circumstances, he

w o u l d impose t h e d e a t h p e n a l t y , but his

a n s w e r s i n d i c a t e t o t h e C o u r t t h a t h e c a n keep

a n open mind u n t i l he has c o n s i d e r e d a l l

factors i n t h e death penalty; therefore, the

Court w i l l deny the challenge f o r cause and

would n o t e your o b j e c t i o n t o t h e r u l i n g f o r

the record, Mr. Golden, for the defense.

MR. GOLDEN: Thank you, Your Honor.

THE COURT: A l l right. So n o t e d .

I 1 I s t h e r e a n y t h i n g t o p u t o n t h e record

I 2 b e f o r e we bring t h e j u r o r s b a c k in?

3 M R . THOMPSON: N o t h i n g b y the S t a t e .

MR. GOLDEN: No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: I am just going to release

Mr. Natale and let him go at this time.

7 P l e a s e bring t h e r e s t o f t h e j u r o r s i n .

8
9

10 THE COURT: A l l right. T h a n k a l l you

11 a g a i n f o r y o u r p a t i e n c e a n d c o o p e r a t i o n on

12 today. I k n o w that t h i s h a s b e e n a d i f f i c u l t

13 p r o c e s s on y o u ; h o w e v e r , we h a v e c o m p l e t e d

14 t h i s p h a s e o f the voir d i r e e x a m i n a t i o n . So

15 we w i l l n e e d you t o c a l l b a c k t o m o r r o w a t

16 a b o u t n o o n , a n d they w i l l h a v e i n s t r u c t i o n s

17 for Judge Mosely's jurors. She i s going to

18 g i v e you a c a l l - b a c k slip. Please call back

19 a f t e r n o o n , but I w i l l i n s t r u c t y o u n o t t o
20 w a t c h t h e n e w s a b o u t t h e c'ase. Please d o not

21 l i s t e n t o r a d i o a c c o u n t s a n d p l e a s e d o not

22 r e a d t h e newspaper. P l e a s e d o n o t w a t c h any

23 n e w s b e c a u s e I'm s u r e i t i s g o i n g t o b e on

24 there.

25 W i t h t h a t , you a l l a r e f r e e t o g o for

26 the e v e n i n g . There is a number on the slip.

27 We will possibly start sequestration on

28 Saturday. We will have instructions for you.

29 I t w i l l b e more than l i k e l y t o m o r r o w , b u t it

30 w i l l t e l l you when t o c a l l b a c k .

31 (Whereupon a discussion o f f the record was

32 held. )

271
5987
 THE C O U R T : W i t h t h a t , y o u a l l a r e free

t o l e a v e a t t h i s point.

3 ( W h e r e u p o n the v e n i r e p a n e l w a s e x c u s e d from
~

t h e courtroom.)
I
I 5 THE C O U R T : W e w i l l be in r e c e s s f o r

I 6 a b o u t fifteen m i n u t e s .

I 7 ( W h e r e u p o n a s h o r t r e c e s s was t a k e n . )

I 8 ( W h e r e u p o n the d e f e n d a n t w a s p r e s e n t w i t h

I 9 counsel. )
10 ( W h e r e u p o n the venire p a n e l w a s s e a t e d in the

11 courtroom.)

12 THE COURT: Good evening, everyone. We

13 will try not to keep you here too late

14 tonight, but we a r e trying to a d v a n c e a s far

15 a s w e p o s s i b l y c o u l d a n d t r y to c o m p l e t e this

16 p r o c e s s as s o o n a s p o s s i b l e .

17 Let me say t h a t e v e r y p e r s o n c h a r g e d

18 w i t h a felony in the S t a t e o f L o u i s i a n a i s

19 e n t i t l e d t o a t r i a l by jury a c c o r d i n g t o the
20 l a w s o f the S t a t e of L o u i s i a n a a n d t h o s e o f

21 the United S t a t e s C o n s t i t u t i o n . I realize

22 t h a t s e r v i n g on the j u r y may p r e s e n t an

23 i n c o n v e n i e n c e for you o r a h a r d s h i p f o r y o u ;

24 h o w e v e r , i t i s vitally i m p o r t a n t t h a t y o u

25 s e r v e on the jury in o r d e r f o r o u r j u r y s y s t e m

26 t o f u n c t i o n , i f it i s p o s s i b l e t h a t y o u can

27 s e r v e o n t h e jury.

28 Let me r e a d t o y o u t h e q u a l i f i c a t i o n s

29 t h a t a r e r e q u i r e d of you in o r d e r t o s e r v e on

30 the j u r y . O n e , you m u s t b e a c i t i z e n o f the

31 United S t a t e s and o f the S t a t e o f L o u i s i a n a

32 a n d h a v e r e s i d e d in C a d d o P a r i s h f o r a t l e a s t
 1 one year prior to today. T w o , you must be at

2 least eighteen years of age. T h r e e , you must

3 be able to read, write and s p e a k the English

4 language. Four, you m u s t not b e interdicted

5 o r i n c a p a b l e of serving b e c a u s e of a m e n t a l o r

6 physical infirmity. Five, you must not be

7 under indictment for a felony o r c o n v i c t e d of

8 a felony for which you have n o t been pardoned.

9 Is there anyone with a n y s u r g e r i e s

10 s c h e d u l e d , vacations scheduled, a n y t h i n g of

11 t h a t nature?

12 If you all would stand’ o v e r h e r e

13 against the wall, I will talk to you a b o u t

14

15

16 the qualifications that I read to you the

17 five?

18 (No response. )

19 THE COURT: A l l right.

20 (Whereupon a discussion o f f the r e c o r d was

2 1 held. )

22 THE COURT: C a n you approach, please.

23 (Whereupon a side-bar discussion o f f the

24 record was held.)

25 THE COURT: Ms. Crawford, you are free

26 to leave.

27 Ms. Arnold, you are free t o leave.

28 (Whereupon the prospective j u r o r s were excused

29 from the venire panel.)

30

3 1 T H E COURT: Let m e i n t r o d u c e you to the

32 parties involved in the litigation o f t h i s

 1 case. Representing t h e S t a t e o f L o u i s i a n a and

2 district attorney's office is the elected

3 D i s t r i c t Attorney, Mr. C h a r l e s S c o t t ,

4 Mr. Dhu T h o m p s o n , a n d Mr. B r a d y O ' C a l l a g h a n .

5 Representing the accused is

6 M r . A l a n G o l d e n a n d Mr. D a v i d M c C l a t c h e y .

Ms. M i c h e l l e A n d r e P o n t a n d Mr. G l e n G a r r e t are

8 o u t f o r the moment.

9 T h e a c c u s e d i s Mr. F e l t o n D o r s e y .

10 This t r i a l is expected to last

11 a p p r o x i m a t e l y t w o weeks. T h i s i s w h a t we

12 c a l l , what i s commonly r e f e r r e d a s t o a

13 lock- up jury. It is one where sequestration

14 will t a k e p l a c e . This will not happen

15 tonight. This will n o t h a p p e n in t h e next
16 c o u p l e d a y s , but i f you are s e l e c t e d t o serve

17 on t h e jury, t h e n y o u w i l l b e r e q u i r e d t o s t a y

18 a t t h e hotel with t h e o t h e r j u r o r s , a n d you

19 will be taken care o f by the sheriff's

20 department.

21 I f you h a v e a n y t h i n g t h a t y o u n e e d t o

22 s t a t e a b o u t the h a r d s h i p or t h e i n c o n v e n i e n c e ,

23 you c a n talk to the a t t o r n e y s , t h e y a r e going

24 to ask you about it, but if you have something

25 p r e s s i n g t h a t you n e e d t o t a l k a b o u t , y o u may

26 s i m p l y say so, and they w i l l q u e s t i o n y o u

27 a b o u t i t , a n d we w i l l g e t m o r e 'information

28 a b o u t i t a t t h a t time.

29 Madam c l e r k , p l e a s e c a l l t h e r o l l .

30 ( W h e r e u p o n the v e n i r e r o l l wars t a k e n . )

31 T H E COURT: Approach the bench, please.

(Whereupon a side- bar d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e

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5990
I 1 h a v e an o p p o r t u n i t y t o t a l k b a c k t o them.

j 2 F e e l f r e e t o a s k any q u e s t i o n s t h a t you may

~ 3 h a v e a b o u t what they are t a l k i n g a b o u t . There

I

4 may be some questions they c a n n o t answer a n d

i 5 t h e y w i l l tell you t h a t , b u t i f you w o u l d l i k e

t o them r e s t a t e s o m e t h i n g o r t o e x p l a i n

I 7 s o m e t h i n g , they w i l l b e h a p p y t o d o t h a t f o r

I 8 you. A s k any q u e s t i o n s t h a t y o u m a y wish to

I 9 a s k a b o u t this p r o c e s s or a b o u t t h e t r i a l .

10 A l s o , t h e r e are no r i g h t and wrong

11 answers. The b e s t a n s w e r i s a t r u t h f u l

12 a n s w e r . I f you a r e a s k e d s o m e t h i n g t h a t you

13 f e e l i s t o o p e r s o n a l or t o o p r i v a t e t o d i s c u s s

14 in t h e p r e s e n c e o f e v e r y o n e , s i m p l y s a y so and

15 w e w i l l t a l k with you p r i v a t e l y a b o u t that

16 matter outside the presence of the other
17 jurors. They are n o t g o i n g t o p r y i n t o your

18 l i f e t h a t much, but g e n e r a l s p e a k i n g

19 s o m e t h i n g s t h a t you may n o t w a n t t o d i s c u s s

20 openly, somethings about your feelings or

21 certain other things.

22 With that, is the State ready to

23 proceed.

24 M R . O'CALLAGHAN: Yes, Your Honor.

25 T h a n k y o u , sir.

26 (Whereupon a PowerPoint presentation prepared

27 by the S t a t e was d i s p l a y e d t o t h e v e n i r e

28 panel. )

29

30 VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

31 BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN:

32 Q. Good evening. As t h e j u d g e t o l d y o u ,

276

5932
m y name is B r a d y O'Callaghan. I'm an
assistant district attorney for Caddo Parish.

I f y o u c a n ' t ' h e a r me, p l e a s e l e t me k n o w . I a m

going to try to speak up, and I'm going to ask

y o u , in t u r n , t h i s lady h e r e h a s t o t a k e d o w n

e v e r y t h i n g that's said by everyone during the

proceedings. As you c a n s e e , the o n l y

m i c r o p h o n e in t h e g e n e r a l a r e a of w h e r e I ' m

s t a n d i n g i s kind o f a i m e d a t m e , so p l e a s e ,

e s p e c i a l l y t h o s e o f y o u w h o a r e e i t h e r w a y on

t h i s e n d o r b a c k in the c o r n e r t h e r e , m a k e

sure that you are speaking loudly and clearly.

S h e c a n ' t t a k e d o w n head n o d s . I k n o w t h a t

most people have a fear of public speaking,

t h a t i s p r o b a b l y n o t h o w you w a n t e d y o u r

T h u r s d a y e v e n i n g , but we will t r y t o m a k e i t

as q u i c k a n d p a i n l e s s as we p o s s i b l y c a n ,

given how serious this matter is.

The i s t h e c a s e o f t h e S t a t e o f
L o u i s i a n a vs. F e l t o n Dorsey. This i s a f i r s t
d e g r e e m u r d e r case. First d e g r e e m u r d e r i s

o n e o f the only t w o c r i m e s i n t h e S t a t e o f

L o u i s i a n a f o r which the d e a t h p e n a l t y c a n b e

i m p o s e d , a n d , t h e r e f o r e , we h a v e t o t a l k a b o u t

s o m e very s e r i o u s issues, s o m e o f w h i c h a r e

p e r s o n a l t o people. As the J u d g e t o l d y o u , we

a r e n o t t r y i n g t o cause any e m b a r r a s s m e n t , b u t

y o u r a t t i t u d e s and views a b o u t c e r t a i n i s s u e s

a r e g o i n g t o be very i m p o r t a n t in d e t e r m i n i n g

w h e t h e r you are an a p p r o p r i a t e j u r o r f o r t h i s

case.

Now, I h o p e e v e r y o n e u n d e r s t a n d s t h a t
 we are n o t passing j u d g m e n t on h o w y o u are a s

a person. You might b e i n a n o t h e r c a s e . It's

j u s t , w o u l d you make a g o o d j u r o r f o r t h i s

4 case. That b ' e i n g s a i d , we can't t e l l you all

I 5 t h e d e t a i l s of this case. W e h a v e t o b e very

I 6 v a g u e b e c a u s e if I got u p h e r e a n d t o l d m y

I 7 case a n d the d e f e n s e g o t u p and t o l d y o u t h e i r

a c a s e , well, t h a t would be t h e t r i a l . So we
~

9 h a v e t o s p e a k in examples. We have to be

10 d e l i b e r a t e l y vague. You know, w e a r e a l l

11 l a w y e r s , b u t we a r e n o t d o i n g i t o n p u r p o s e .

12 W e do h a v e t o d o t h a t f o r t h e l a w . So p l e a s e

13 u n d e r s t a n d that. Try n o t t o l e t i t f r u s t r a t e

14 you anymore than it already frustrates U S .

15 A l l t h a t being s a i d , I want t o m a k e

16 sure that I have everyone's name down. If I

17 get y o u r n a m e wrong, p l e a s e c o r r e c t m e . As you

18 may h a v e seen, I h a v e a s i l e n t "GI' in my name,

19 so I t r y t o pronounce p e o p l e ' s n a m e s
20 correctly.

21 I s i t Mr. B u r k s ?

22 A. ( B y M r . B u r k s ) Yes.

23 Q. Ms. H a r r i s .

24 A. ( B y Ms. H a r r i s ) Yes.

25 Q. Ms. Williams.

26 A. ( B y Ms. W i l l i a m s ) C o r r e c t .

27 Q. Mr. Dozier.

28 A. ( B y Mr. D o z i e r ) C o r r e c t .

29 Q. Mr. Barnes.

30 A. (By M s . B a r n e s ) C o r r e c t .

31 Q. M r . Yeates.

32 A. ( B y Ms. Y e a t e s ) Yes.
 Q.. Ms. Mouser.

A. (By M s . Mouser) Yes, sir.

Q. Mr. Smith.

A. (By M r . S m i t h ) Yes, sir.

Q. M r . Dewitt.

A. (By M r . Dewett) Yes.

. Q. Ms. Andrews.

A. (By M s . A n d r e w s ) Yes.

9 Q. Ms. Johnson.

10 A. (By M s . Johnson) Yes.

11 Q. Ms. St. Pierre.

12 A. (By M s . St. P i e r r e ) Yes.

13 Q. You a l l o v e r t h e r e a r e t h e o n e s t h a t

14 I ' m a little bit -- is it Ms. Knowles in the

15 back there i n t h e red jacket?

16 A. (By M s . St. Pierre) Right here i n

17 front .
18 Q. You a r e i n t h e front. Let me j o t

19 t h a t down. I got out of o r d e r and w h i l e you

20 a l l were g e t t i n g s e a t e d , I couldn't s e e who

21 was g o i n g w h e r e .

22 Are you, Ms. Dennis, ma'am?

23 A. (By M s . Dennis) Yes, sir.

24 Q. And i t i s K n o w l e s ?

25 A. (By M s . K n o w 1 . e ~ )Y e s .

26 Q. L e t ' s see. Sir, t h e gentleman i n t h e

27 purple shirt, a r e you M r . Jones?

28 A. (By M r . Hodge) Hodge.

29 Q. I a p p a r e n t l y g o t t h a t whole section

30 switched back.

31 You a r e M r . Hodge.

32 So, Mr. Jones, y o u -a r e seated behind

279
5995
Mr. Hodge.

A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) Yes.

Q. Okay. I h a v e got o n e m o r e c h a n c e t o

g e t i t right. Mr. S t a p l e s , s i r ?

A. (By Mr. S t a p l e s ) Staples.

Q. Okay. Mr. Brown.
A. (By M r . B r o w n ) ( J u r o r r a i s e s h a n d . )

Q. " Of c o u r s e , M r . B r o w n h a s h i s name on

h i s j a c k e t w h i c h k i n d of g a v e me an u n f a i r

advantage.

Before I start asking you all

q u e s t i o n s , I k i n d o f want t o g o o v e r o n e

t h i n g , a n d t h a t ' s t h e i m p o r t a n c e of j u r o r s .

As c y n i c a l as people o f t e n are in t h i s
c o u n t r y , you k n o w , I t h i n k t h a t w h e n y o u

m e a s u r e o u r s y s t e m a g a i n s t the s y s t e m s o f

e v e r y o t h e r c o u n t r y o f t h e w o r l d , we c o m e o u t

l o o k i n g very g o o d . We prioritize the rights

of the i n d i v i d u a l and in a d h e r e n c e t o t h e r u l e

of l a w t h a t i s rarely e q u a l e d .

T h a t being s a i d , when we c o m e i n h e r e

in a p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r a n d a c i t i z e n , h o n e s t

d i a l o g i s the purpose. Now, I ' m n o t t r y i n g t o

s u g g e s t t h a t a n y b o d y w o u l d m i s l e a d in a n y w a y ,

but what I h a v e experienced i s f r i e n d s o f m i n e

t h a t s a y what view d o I h a v e t o e x a g g e r a t e a

1 i t t l e . b i t t h a t w i l l g e t me o u t o f j u r y

service. A n d I t h i n k it's a very h u m a n

n a t u r e , i t ' s very much human n a t u r e g i v e n

especially the kind of case we're talking

about to exaggerate. I don't think you would

f l a t o u t m i s l e a d , that a t t i t u d e y o u f e e l a

280
 c- . .-.-

1 l i t t l e b i t might s u d d e n l y b e c o m e a lot i f y o u

2 t h i n k i t might get you o u t o f here. I j u s t

I
I 3 w a n t t o make s u r e t h a t y o u ' r e a l l r e g i s t e r e d

4 voters.

Has anyone, and I'm not talking about

any s p e c i f i c election, but, Ms. S t . P i e r r e ,

h a v e y o u ever s e e n an e l e c t i o n a n d s a i d a n y
I
time your life and said boy, I can't believe

t h a t p e r s o n won?

10 A. ( B y Ms. S t . P i e r r e ) Yes.
11 Q. Did y o u vote in t h a t e l e c t i o n i n

12 which you were s u r p r i s e d ?

13 A. (By M s . St. P i e r r e ) I d o n o t r e c a l l .

14 B u t I k n o w it h a s h a p p e n e d b e f o r e s o m e w h e r e

15 down t h e l i n e .
16 Q. All I guess the p o i n t I ' m m a k i n g is,
17 i f y o u didn't s h o w u p a n d vote, a n d y o u w e r e

18 s u r p r i s e d a t the r e s u l t , d o l y o u h a v e m u c h

19 standing to complain about it?

20 A. ( B y Ms. S t . P i e r r e ) N o .

21 Q. Similarly, Ms. Johnson, have you ever

22 b e e n w a t c h i n g TV a n d s e e n a c r i m i n a l c a s e a n d

23 s a i d , I c a n ' t b e l i e v e they l e t t h a t p e r s o n g o

24 o r I c a n ' t b e l i e v e they c o n v i c t e d t h a t p e r s o n ?

25 A. ( B y M s . J o h n s o n ) Yes.

26 Q. That's pretty typical reactions.

27 W e l l , p e o p l e w h o try n o t t o s e r v e o n j u r i e s

28 very h a r d , i t ' s kind o f h a r d t o c o m p l a i n a b o u t

29 c r i m i n a l verdicts if y o u ' r e n o t w i l l i n g t o

30 s e r v e . N o w , a g a i n , there w i l l b e t h i n g s t h a t

31 might make this a difficult case for you, it

32 may b e b a d timing, it may b e t h e k i n d of c a s e

281
5997
 t h a t j u s t i s g o i n g t o b e t o o h a r d f o r y o u . I'm

n o t t r y i n g t o f o r c e y o u or s t r o n g - a r m y o u in

a n y way t o a g r e e i n g to s e r v e . - I j u s t w a n t m a k e

s u r e you a l l u n d e r s t a n d t h a t i t ' s a r e a l l y

important obligation and that you will give me

y o u r b e s t most honest answers.

T h e r e a r e t w o p h a s e s o f v o i r d i r e in

a c a p i t a l m u r d e r case. T h e f i r s t p h a s e is

o n l y d e a l i n g with t h r e e issues. The first is

10 sequestration. What t h e judge was talking

11 a b o u t t h i s b e i n g a lock- up j u r y , t h e j u r y w i l l

12 b e sequestered. That's just our fancy legal

13 word for b e i n g l o c k e d u p . Now, that doesn't

14 mean in a jail c e l l . It means t h a t YOU will

15 stay at a hotel, you'll be fed by the sheriff.
16 T h e y t a k e you o u t t o r e s t a u r a n t s . T h e y d o n ' t

17 f e e d you s h e r i f f f o o d . T h e y t a k e y o u o u t . You

18 k n o w , from what I've h e a r d from s o m e p e o p l e ,

19 i t ' s a very welcomed vacation f r o m t h e i r

20 f a m i l i e s , e s p e c i a l l y j u r o r s with s m a l l

21 children seem to be eager to serve sometimes.

22 T h a t b e i n g s a i d , I a l s o k n o w it c a n b e a n

23 e x t r em e h a.rd sh i p .

24 T h e s e c o n d a r e a we w i l l d i s c u s s i s

25 pretrial publicity. N o w , a g a i n , we c a n ' t g e t

26 i n t o e v e r y d e t a i l o f t h i s c a s e , b u t we c a n
~

27 t a l k i n very g e n e r a l t e r m s a b o u t w h a t t h e

28 S t a t e h a s a l l e g e d , so t h a t i f y o u ' v e h e a r d

29 a b o u t i t a n d h a v e formed any p r e c o n c e i v e d

30 o p i n i o n , we c a n e x p l o r e t h a t t o see.

31 Now, l e t me t e l l you o n e t h i n g a b o u t

32 pretrial publicity, we're going to get to it

282

5998
 "\
' ! ,
'-'

in a m i n u t e , b u t I want t o k n o w t h a t y o u k n o w

s o m e t h i n g n o t what y o u k n o w . B e c a u s e i f y o u

I p i p e up a n d say, well, I ' v e a l r e a d y d e c i d e d

P

and, well, now you just told everybody else

s o m e i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t they w o u l d n ' t h a v e h a d

a n d w e want t o p r e s e r v e the o p e n - m i n d e d n e s s o f

e v e r y juror. So please d o n ' t t e l l m e w h a t you

m i g h t h a v e h e a r d in t h e g e n e r a l v o i r d i r e ,

9 j u s t that you h a v e heard something if Y O U

10

11

12 is your views about the death penalty. Again,

13 that's p e r s o n a l b u s i n e s s , I d o n ' t like getting

14 into p e o p l e ' s personal b u s i n e s s l b u t t h a t ' s m y
' 15 j o b i n t h i s k i n d of c a s e . T h e S t a t e i s s e e k i n g

16 t h e d e a t h penalty in t h i s c a s e , as

17 M r . T h o m p s o n , m y s e l f a n d the d i s t r i c t

18 a t t o r n e y , a n d so b o t h s i d e s n e e d t o k n o w y o u r

19 v i e w s a b o u t i t because b o t h s i d e s a r e e n t i t l e d

20 to have jurors that are open to both the

21 p o s s i b i l i t y of l i f e i m p r i s o n m e n t a n d c a p i t a l

22

23
I p u n i s h m e n t a s a s e n t e n c e in a f i r s t d e g r e e

m u r d e r case.

24 Is everybody with m e o n w h a t w e ' r e

25 g o i n g t o b e t a l k i n g about.

26 A. ( B y Mr. B u r k s ) Yes.

27 A. ( B y M s . H a r r i s ) Yes.

28 A. ( B y Ms. W i l l i a m s ) Yes.

29 A. ( B y M r . D o z i e r ) Yes.

30 A. ( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) Yes.

31 A. (By Ms. Y e a t e s ) Yes.

32 A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) Yes.

283
 FYI
+rr
I
1 A. ( B y M s . M o u s e r ) Yes. rirri
F:l
2 A. ( B y Ms. K n o w l e s ) Yes.

3 A. ( B y Ms. D e n n i s ) Yes.

4 A. ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) Yes.

A. (By Mr. J o n e s ) Yes.

A. ( B y Mr. Staples) Y e s .

A. ( B y Mr. B r o w n ) Yes.
\
8 Q. Sequestration. Sequestration means

9 y o u w i l l h a v e n o c o n t a c t with a n y o n e ,

10 including your children or your spouses,

11 e x c e p t t h r o u g h the s h e r i f f ' s o f f i c e . Now,

12 I ' v e n e v e r b e e n s e q u e s t e r e d m y s e l f , so I d o n ' t

13 k n o w e x a c t l y what t h a t means, b u t y o u a r e

14 pretty much c u t o f f f r o m t h e rest of y o u r

15 life. A r r a n g e m e n t s are m a d e , t h i n g s a r e p u t

16 in p l a c e w h e r e if s o m e o n e you w o u l d c a r e a b o u t

17 or i s c l o s e t o you h a s an e m e r g e n c y , t h e y w i l l

18 b e a b l e t o c o n t a c t the s h e r i f f ' s o f f i c e a n d

19 then the j u d g e will m a k e a d e c i s i o n , w e l l , y o u

20 k n o w , t h a t ' s a f a m i l y c r i s i s , you k n o w . A n d

21 t h a t ' s why we pick a l t e r n a t e j u r o r s in c a s e

22 s o m e o n e h a s a problem l i k e t h a t . So don't

23 t h i n k t h e w o r l d c a n fall d o w n a r o u n d y o u w h i l e

24 you a r e s e q u e s t e r e d , but a t t h e s a m e t i m e , y o u

25 won't be calling and chitchatting with anyone

26 in y o u r family.

27 You w i l l b e l i v i n g i n a h o t e l . You

28 w i l l h a v e l i m i t e d TV a n d n e w s p a p e r e x p o s u r e .

29 W e d o n ' t want you t o s e e s o m e s t o r y in t h e

30 p r e s s a b o u t h o w the trial w a s g o i n g a n d h a v e

i 31 t h a t a f f e c t y o u r mind. I mean, i f you t h o u g h t

32 a w i t n e s s d i d a g r e a t j o b , t h a t ' s w h a t we c a r e
 ......

1 about. We d o n ' t w a n t y o u t o s e e o n t h e p r e s s

2 t h a t some r e p o r t e r s a y s t h a t w i t n e s s bombed,

3 well, maybe t h e y d i d bomb, o r anything l i k e

4 t h a t . It's t h e Court's j o b a n d t h e lawyers'

5 j o b t o make s u r e t h a t t h e v e r d i c t i n t h i s c a s e

6 i s based on t h e e v i d e n c e t h a t i s p r e s e n t e d

7 here i n court, n o t what you m i g h t see on TV o r

8 read i n t h e paper.

9 No o n e i s s e q u e s t e r e d b e f o r e F r i d a y .

10 Well, that was put on there as an early

11 prediction. I t h i n k n o o n e i s l i k e l y t o be

12 sequestered before Saturday a t t h i s point. So

13 i n othe'r words, when w e f i n i s h h e r e , even i f

14 it g o e s i n t o t o m o r r o w , y o u won't turn around

15 and s u d d e n l y have t o have your bags packed.

16 There w i l l be a t i m e where you'll

17 s t i l l ' h a v e t o go through general v o i r dire,

18 a n d t h e n a t s o m e p o i n t a f t e r y o u were s e l e c t e d

19 after general voir dire, you w i l l be g i v e n t h e

20 opportunity I believe to, you know, l e t your

21 f a m i l y know, get your stuff together, call

22 e v e r y b o d y you need t o c a l l a n d t h e n g o p u t

23 your stuff a t t h e h o t e l a n d be r e a d y t o s e r v e

24 as.a juror.

25 So a l l of that being said, I ' m done

26 t a l k i n g f o r a minute, and I j u s t want t o a s k

27 you a l l , Ms. Mouser, d o you t h i n k t h a t you

28 c o u l d s e r v e as a j u r o r o r would s e q u e s t r a t i o n

29 present a hardship?

30 A. (By M s . Mouser) I could serve.

31 Q. Thank you, ma'am.

32 How a b o u t y o u , M r . Smith?
 1 A. ( B y Mr. Smith) I b e l i e v e I c o u l d .
2 Q. Do you h a v e any r e s e r v a t i o n s ?

3 A. (By Mr. Smith) Well, I am have a job

4 in l i n e t h a t I h a v e t o g o t h r o u g h t r a i n i n g .

5 A n d that w o u l d b e the only t h i n g t h a t w o u l d

6 stop me.

7 Q. W h e n is t h a t t r a i n i n g t o s u p p o s e d t o

8 be?

9 A. ( B y M r . S m i t h ) As s o o n a s I g e t d o n e

10 with t h i s .
11 Q. If you called y o u r b o s s a n d s a y ,

12 l o o k , I g o t picked f o r a very i m p o r t a n t c a s e ,

13 you k n o w , they a r e n o t l e t t i n g me g o , do y o u

14 t h i n k t h e y , w o u l d understand and keep your job

1

15

16
I f o r you?

A. ( B y Mr. S m i t h ) S h e a l r e a d y d o e s

17 understand, actually.

18

19
I Q. O k a y . Well, good. T h a n k s , M r . S m i t h .

Mr. D e w i t t , h o w you a b o u t , s i r ?

20 A. ( B y Mr. D e w e t t ) I d o n ' t t h i n k I would

21 have problem. I do have a question.

22 Q. Yes , sir.

23 A. (By Mr. Dewett) The company I work

24 f o r h a s m e s c h e d u l e d f o r o u t of t o w n s t a r t i n g

25 M e m o r i a l Day for t h r e e d a y s ; i s t h a t g o i n g t o

26 b e within the t e r m ?

27 Q. You k n o w , I w o u l d t e l l y o u t o p r e s u m e

28 t h a t it w i l l b e . It's possible that we would

29 b e f i n i s h e d b e f o r e then, but I d o n ' t w a n t t o

30 t e l l y o u t h a t we w i l l b e a n d t h e n y o u n o t be.

31 You k n o w , t h e r e ' s t o o many v a r i a b l e s . You

32 h a v e a w i t n e s s t h a t we think w i l l t e n m i n u t e s

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 1 n o t i n t o the w h o l e t h i n g o f b e i n g v e r y

2 c o n f i n e d for, e v e n though i t i s a h o t e l ,

I 3 o b v i o u s l y , b u t being c o n f i n e d w i t h n o c o n t a c t

4 with family, f r i e n d s , any of t h a t s t u f f . It

5 k i n d o f m a k e s me r e a l l y a n x i o u s . I t w o u l d a l s o

6 b e a h a r d s h i p w i t h work.

7 Q. W h a t k i n d o f work d o y o u d o , m a ' a m ?

8 A. ( B y Ms. St. P i e r r e ) I'm a college

9 instructor.

10 Q. Okay. Where do you teach?

11 A. ( B y M s . S t . P i e r r e ) At N o r t h w e s t e r n .

12 Q. A n d what is t h e a c a d e m i c s c h e d u l e o f

13 Northwestern?

14 A. ( B y Ms. St. P i e r r e ) I a m a s t a r t i n g

15 new s u m m e r c l a s s o n M o n d a y .

16 Q. Okay.

17 A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) And then I'm also

18 s t a r t i n g t w o o t h e r s u m m e r c l a s s e s in t w o

19 weeks.
20 Q. When you say " t w o w e e k s , " w o u l d t h a t

21 b e t w o w e e k s from n e x t M o n d a y ?

22 A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) I believe it's

23 t w o w e e k s f r o m n e x t Monday. I w a n t t o s a y t h e

24 2nd. I c a n get t h e s c h e d u l e m o r e c o n f i r m e d i f

25 you n e e d i t .

26 Q. I c a n ' t p r o m i s e you a b o u t t h e 2 n d ,

27 b u t I f e e l reasonably c o n f i d e n t i t w o u l d o k a y .

28 W e w i l l c o m e back t o the a n x i e t y i s s u e , b u t a s

29 far a s t h e o n e c l a s s , d o y o u t h i n k y o u c o u l d

30 g e t s o m e b o d y t o cover the f i r s t c o u p l e o f

31 lectu'res o r s o m e t h i n g l i k e t h a t , s o m e b o d y e l s e

32 in t h e d e p a r t m e n t in w h i c h you t e a c h ?

289

6005
 1 A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) I can check on

2 it. I'm not sure what everyone else's summer

3 schedule is.

4 Q. Ma'am, what y o u ' r e saying about the

5 anxiety, that's not the first t i m e I ' v e heard

6 that. We've heard a lot about the notion that

7 you are going to be shuffled around and you

8 are not to have a lot of say in your schedule

9 for a while is a n x i e t y c a u s i n g for a lot o f

10 people.

11 A. (By M s . St. Pierre) Uh-huh.

12 Q. Given that, you know, if you don't

13 serve and because of that, somebody else might

14 have to, do you think that i f given that this

15 is not - - and I don't mean to make light of

16 any crime - - but this is not a trespassing

17 case.

18 A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) I understand.

19 Q. This i s serious business. D o you

20 think that your anxiety would distract you

21 from listening to evidence and witnesses, if

22 you were selected as a juror in the case?

23 A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) It depends on the

24 circumstances. I don't know.

25 Q. Okay. I guess, I mean, if you don't

26 know, you don't know. Would you give it your

27 best if you were selected?

28 A. (By M s . St. Pierre) I would give it

29 my best, yes.

30 Q. Thank you, Ms. St. Pierre.

31 Ms. Dennis, how about you, m a ' a m .

32 A. (By M s . Dennis) What was the

290
6006
 1 q u e st i o n ?

2 Q. Would sequestration impose a hardship

3 if you had to be locked up?

4 A. .(By Ms. D e n n i s ) No.

5 Q. Again, g o i n g t o a hotel, just kind of

6 k e p t a w a y from the rest o f t h e w o r l d f o r a

7 l i t t l e while.

8 A. (By Ms. Dennis) (Juror shakes head.)

9 Q. That's o k a y f o r y o u .

10 A. ( B y Ms. D e n n i s ) ( J u r o r nods head.)

11 Q. H o w a b o u t you, Ms. K n o w l e s .

12 A. (By Ms. Kn,owles) Yes. I would have

13 t o say yes.

14 Q. Okay.

15 A. ( B y Ms. K n o w l e s ) I h a v e six k i d s a t

16 home. I h a v e custody o f m y t h r e e n e p h e w s , a n d

17 I h a v e t h r e e k i d s of m y o w n , a n d m y h u s b a n d

18 works nights.

19 Q. What's the age range on the

20 grandkids?

21 A. (By Ms. Knowles) F r o m three to

22 thirteen.

23 Q. Is t h e r e any f a m i l y m e m b e r t h a t c o u l d

24 s t e p u p - - I mean, I k n o w t h a t ' s a s k i n g a

25 lot - - but is there anybody else that could

26 h e l p s u b s t i t u t e while you were s e q u e s t e r e d

27 for, you k n o w , o n e or t w o w e e k s ?

28 A. ( B y Ms. K n o w l e s ) M a y b e m y

29 m o t h e r - i n - l a w , probably i n t h e d a y t i m e . M a y b e

30 h e r b e c a u s e s h e works nights, a l s o .

31 Q. Is there - -

32 A. (By M s . Knowles) That's about it.

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1' Q. Is t h e r e anybody t h a t c o u l d c o v e r t h e rn
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2 nights?

3 A. (By M s . Knowles) No o n e t h a t I c a n

4 depend on d o i n g i t , no.

Q. Thank you, M s . ,Knowles. IRr I

Q
Mr. Jones, how a b o u t y o u , sir? Ma

A. (By M r . Jones) It's a possibility.

8 Q. It is a possibility.

9 A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) ( J u r o r nods head.)

10 Q. Anything i n p a r t i c u l a r t h a t you would

11 n e e d t o know b e f o r e y o u c o u l d g e t g o i n g ? I

12 mean, d o you h a v e a n e m p l o y e r t h a t you n e e d t o

13 check w i t h ' o r anything l i k e t h a t ?

14 A. (By M r . J o n e s ) Well, i t ' s probably

15 hard w i t h m e w i t h my job because w e have

16 p e o p l e t a k i n g v a c a t i o n s coming up soon, and

17 t h e y f i l l t h e s c h e d u l e s where a s e t o f
I I
18 employees have t o cover them.

19 Q. Okay.

20 A. (By M r . J o n e s ) A n d l i k e w i t h my h o m e ,

21 y o u know, m e a n d my w i f e h a v e a s e t s c h e d u l e

22 where w e have two k i d s a n d where o n e w o u l d be

23 able t o t a k e care of one a t one t i m e and a t

24 d i f f e r e n t times.

25 Q. What k i n d of work d o you d o ?

26 A. (By M r . Jones) Hotel bellhop.

27 Q. A r e you aware i f there are

28 s p e c i f i c a l l y vacations planned f o r your fellow

29 employees f o r t h e n e x t two weeks o r s o ?

30 A. (By M r . J o n e s ) Yeah. One g u y , he's a

31 foreman, he's g o i n g back home. H e ' s a big

32 a s s e t t o t h e company a n d l i k e t h e s h i f t t h a t ' s

292
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01
 1 t w o , b u t f o r t w o weeks, no.

2 Q. S i r , d o you think y o u r c o n c e r n a b o u t

3 your wife's ability to go to work and do

4 whatever she needs to d o w o u l d d i s t r a c t Y O U if

5 you were selected as a juror?

6 A. ( B y Mr. B r o w n ) Y e s , i t would.

7 Q. Do y o u f e e l . t h a t i t w o u l d p r e v e n t y o u

8 f r o m g i v i n g either s i d e a f a i r t r i a l b a s e d on

9 the e v i d e n c e ?

10 A. ( B y M r . B r o w n ) Yes, i t would.

11 Q. How a b o u t you, Mr. S t a p l e s ?

12 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) I h a v e p e r s o n a l

13 convictions in r e g a r d s t o the c r i m i n a l j u s t i c e
14 system.

15 Q. Okay. A n d , you k n o w , I a m h a p p y t o

16 t a l k t o you a b o u t t h a t in j u s t a m i n u t e .

17 A. (By Mr. Staples) Okay.

18 Q. I want t o j u s t s t a y f o c u s e d o n t h e

19 s e q u e s t r a t i o n i s s u e f o r r i g h t now. A n d t h e n a

20 l i t t l e l a t e r in the voir d i r e , I t h i n k t h e r e

2 1 would be a good opportunity for us to explore

22 t h o s e a n d s e e if i t ' s g o i n g t o i m p a i r y o u t o o

23 much.

24 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) I w o u l d l i k e t o

25 e x p l a i n i t in p r i v a t e w i t h t h e j u d g e a n d t h e

26 c o u r t officials.

27 Q. W e c a n make t h o s e a r r a n g e m e n t s . I ' l l

28 make a note.

29 A. (By Mr. Staples) Okay.

30 Q. J u s t focusing on the s e q u e s t r a t i o n

31 i s s u e , w o u l d i t p r e s e n t a h a r d s h i p fo'r y o u ,

32 Mr. Staples?

296
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5 Q. I f you were t o m i s s , a m I c o r r e c t in rsr
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7 work?

8 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) I w o n ' t g e t p a i d .

9 Q. W o u l d the l o s t i n c o m e f r o m a w e e k o r

10 t w o of sequestration put you i n d i r e f i n a n c i a l

11 s t r a i t s a s f a r as any house payments or rent
12 or anything like that?

13 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) Y e s , i t w o u l d .

14 Q. Do you feel that your concerns about

15 the f i n a n c i a l s i t u a t i o n m i g h t k e e p y o u f r o m

16 g i v i n g b o t h s i d e s a fair t r i a l a n d t h a t y o u

17 might b e d i s t r a c t e d f r o m h e a r i n g a l l t h e

18 e v i d e n c e a n d listening t o t h e a r g u m e n t s o f t h e

19 lawyers?

20 A. ( B y M r . S t a p l e s ) I b e l i e v e my

21 opinions that I have to express to the Court

22 i n r e g a r d s t o the s y s t e m , I t h i n k t h a t m i g h t

23 b e m o r e d e t r i m e n t a l in say t h i s g e n t l e m a n

24 h a v i n g a f a i r trial.

25 Q. O k a y . Thank y o u , e v e r y o n e .

26 Well, I haven't done the front row,

27 h a v e I. T h a n k e v e r y o n e I h a v e t a l k e d t o so

28 far.

29 Mr. B u r k s , h o w a b o u t y o u , s i r ?

30 A. ( B y Mr. B u r k s ) W e l l , m y j o b t h e y ' r e

31 s u p p o s e d to s c h e d u l e for my j o b t w o w e e k s in

32 advance.

297
6013
 1 Q. Okay.

2 A. ( B y Mr. B u r k s ) But I d o n ' t t h i n k I

3 would have a n issue.

Q. I mean, you k n o w , i f s o m e b o d y g e t s

5 sick, they'd have to make accommodations - -

6 A. ( B y Mr. Burks) I ' m l i k e t h e o n l y

7 p e r s o n t h a t ' s a c t u a l l y t h a t they h a v e f o r m y

shift to w o r k at nights.

9 Q. Okay.

10 A. ( B y M r . B u r k s ) For t h a t - - a n y t i m e

11 they t r y to c o v e r i t , they u s u a l l y h a v e i s s u e s

12 a t t i m e s , b u t I d o n ' t t h i n k they w i l l h a v e a n

13 issue. I d o n ' t know. I'll check with them.

14 Q. You w i l l c h e c k with y o u r e m p l o y e r .

15 T h a n k s , M r . Burks. O t h e r than i f y o u r

16 e m p l o y e r s a y s , well, i t w i l l b e h a r d , b u t we

17 c a n m a k e d u e , o t h e r than t h a t any o t h e r i s s u e s

18 with the s e q u e s t r a t i o n ?

19 A. ( B y M r . B u r k s ) No, n o t a t a l l .

20 Q. How a b o u t you, Ms. Harris.

21 A. ( B y Ms. H a r r i s ) N o n e .

22 Q. No problems?

23 A. (By Ms. Harris) I can vent some, but

24 I won't.

25 Q. Hence, why we g i v e you t h e b i g m o r a l e

26 l e c t u r e a t the beginning. Thank you,

27 M s . Harris.

28 How you a b o u t y o u , M s . W i l l i a m s .

29 A. ( B y Ms. W i l l i a m s ) I d o n ' t t h i n k i t

30 would be a problem.

31 Q. Mr. Dozier.

32 A. ( B y Mr. D o z i e r ) No p r o b l e m .
 1 Q. Ms. Barnes.

2 A. (By Ms. B a r n e s ) Y e s , i t w o u l d b e a

3 problem for me.

4 Q. Okay. Can y o u e l a b o r a t e ?
5 A. ( B y M s . Barnes) I have f o u r k i d a t

6 h o m e , t h r e e , five, seven and f i f t e e n , a n d I

7 a l s o s t a r t c l a s s e s on Monday.

8 Q. Where w i l l you b e s t a r t i n g c l a s s e s ,

9 ma am?

10 A. (By Ms. Barnes) Northwestern. And I

11 also work.

12 Q. I s t h a t Northwestern n u r s i n g o r t h e

13 s a t e l l i t e campus h e r e or i s t h a t o v e r i n

1 4 Natchitoches?

15 A. ( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) In N a t c h i t o c h e s .

16 Q. I n Natchitoches. If your professors

17 were w i l l i n g t o g i v e you a p a s s , h o w m u c h

18 would the child care issue be a problem? Are

19 there family members or friends close here in

20 town that might be able to help you out?

21 A. ( B y M s . B a r n e s ) Y e s , they m i g h t b e .

22 Q. S o m e o n e might b e a b l e t o help?

23 A. (By Ms. B a r n e s ) Um- hum.

24 Q. Have you already paid for your

25 c l a s s e s in a d v a n c e ?

26 A. (By Ms. B a r n e s ) R i g h t .

27 Q. Ma’am, how big a hardship would it

28 be? I m e a n , I d o n ’ t h a v e a n y way o f g e t t i n g

29 into your head and talk to you about it.

30 A. ( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) I t ’ s a h a r d s h i p . I’m

31 t h e s o l e p r o v i d e r for them.

32 Q. So in addition t o a t t e n d i n g s c h o o l in
 1 Natchitoches, you a r e a l s o employed, ma'am?

2 A. (By M s . Barnes) Right.

3 Q. Are you i n a s i t u a t i o n where i f you

4 don't work, y o u d o n ' t g e t p a i d ?

5 A. ( B y Ms. Barnes) Yes.

6 Q. Do y o u t h i n k t h a t l o s i n g y o u r i n c o m e

7 stream f o r a week o r two w o u l d i m p o s e problems

a o n m a k i n g b i l l s an'd t h i n g s l i k e t h a t ?

9 A. (By M s . Barnes) Yes, f o r two weeks.

10 Q. Okay. DO YOU feel t h a t your concerns

11 about p r o v i d i n g and a r r a n g i n g c h i l d care, t o

12 missing school, m i s s i n g work, m i s s i n g money,

13 do you t h i n k t h a t t h o s e t h i n g s w o u l d d i s t r a c t

1 4 you if y o u ' r e selected as a j u r o r , o r could

15 you set that aside and pay a t t e n t i o n t o t h e

16 evidence?

17 A. (By M s . Barnes) I'd be w o r r i e d a b o u t

ia them. I mean, i t ' s hard t o s a y .

19 Q. Thank you.

20 Ms. Yeates, how a b o u t y o u .

21 A. (By M s . Yeates) I have no p r o b l e m .

22 Q. Now, thank everyone.

23 The next i s s u e t h a t I wanted t o

24 d i s c u s s w i t h you a l l i s p r e t r i a l p u b l i c i t y .

25 I ' m t a l k i n g louder i n hopes t h a t it w i l l

26 e n c o u r a g e you t o a l s o t a l k l o u d l y . Again, I

27 c a n ' t go i n t o e v e r y d e t a i l . What we've

28 agreed, you know, the l a w s o r t of lets u s give

29 very, v e r y broad s t r o k e s .

30 The S t a t e h a s a l l e g e d t h a t t h i s crime

31 of f i r s t degree murder o c c u r r e d on A p r i l 1,

32 2006. That it occurred a t

300
6816
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8845 Greenwood Springridge Road which is on

H i g h w a y 169, n e a r G r e e n w o o d , L o u i s i a n a . You

go way w e s t a n d you g o s o m e s o u t h . The victim

was a gentleman named Joe Prock. And the

State alleges that he was m u r d e r e d , a n d h i s
m o t h e r , Ms. Bobbie P r o c k , w a s i n j u r e d d u r i n g

the c r i m e a t t h a t location.

T h i s c a s e was i n v e s t i g a t e d b y t h e

9 Caddo P a r i s h S h e r i f f ' s O f f i c e p r i m a r i l y w i t h

10 a s s i s t a n c e from o t h e r a g e n c i e s , b u t i f y o u d i d

11 see i t on T V , you probably w o u l d h a v e s e e n

12 some brown sheriffs uniforms and things like

13 that.

1 4 NOW, again I don't w a n t t o k n o w w h a t

15 y o u k n o w , o n l y t h a t you k n o w , a n d t h e n I w i l l

16 h a v e a c o u p l e follow- up questions.

17 M r . B r o w n , h a v e you h e a r d a b o u t t h i s

18 case?

19 A. (By M r . B r o w n ) Yes.

20 Q. B a s e d on what you h a v e h e a r d , w h e r e

21 d i d y o u h e a r what you h e a r d ?

22 A. ( B y Mr. B r o w n ) I r e a d i t i n t h e paper

23 a n d s a w i t on the news.

24 Q. W a s t h a t back when i t h a p p e n e d o r

25 m o r e r e c e n t l y t a l k i n g a b o u t the t r i a l c o m i n g

26 up?

27 A. ( B y M r . B r o w n ) I think i t w a s S u n d a y .

28 Q. Okay. Based on what y o u s a w o r

29 h e a r d , a g a i n without t e l l i n g me w h a t i t w a s ,

30 h a v e you f o r m e d any c o n c l u s i o n a b o u t

3 1 Mr. Dorsey's guilt?

32 A. ( B y M r . Brown) Yes.
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Q. I n e e d you t o s a y y e a or n a y f o r the rn
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court reporter.

A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) Yes.

Q. You d o n ' t a c t u a l l y h a v e t o s a y " y e a "

or r r n a y , " you c a n say yes o r no. I'm s o r r y ,

Mr. J o n e s . Yes?

A. (By Mr. J o n e s ) Yes.

Q. Do you think t h a t t h a t p r e c o n c e p t i o n

a b o u t Mr. D o r s e y ' s g u i l t i s s o m e t h i n g t h a t y o u

would bring with you i n t o the courtroom and

w o u l d a f f e c t your a b i l i t y t o s e r v e f a i r l y a s a

juror in this case?

A.

Q.
( B y Mr. J o n e s ) No.

If the judge said make the decision

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b a s e d o n the e v i d e n c e , d o y o u t h i n k y o u c o u l d

do that?

A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) Right. W i t h t h e way I

l o o k e d a t t h i s c a s e , y e a h , when i t h a p p e n e d ,
I
yeah.
Q. W h a t I ' m saying i s , y o u k n o w , what

you s e e on t h e n e w s i s n ' t - - l e t m e t a l k a b o u t

that just real quick. There's a couple of

things. W i t h a l l d u e t o my c o l l e a g u e s a n d

f r i e n d s in t h e p r e s s - - a n d I ' m f r i e n d s with

s o m e r e p o r t e r s and a l l t h a t - - y o u k n o w , n e w s

s t o r i e s are not evidence. They are trying to

pick out the sound bites that you'll stay

t u n e d for. So they usually gi+e y o u j u s t

k i n d of h i g h l i g h t s and l i t t l e s n i p p e t s , a n d

s o m e t i m e s t h e y make grave a n d s i g n i f i c a n t

m i s t a k e s . In fact, the worst m i s t a k e I t h i n k

t h e y ' v e e v e r made i s t o s h o w me o n TV w i t h a

303
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! I

f r i e n d o f m i n e ' s name u n d e r my f a c e , w h i c h was

v e r y c o n f u s i n g t o my m o t h e r .

Given t h a t , t h a t they c a n ' t even get

t h e name r i g h t s o m e t i m e s , b u t they t r y and

they get a l o t o f s t u f f right, I'm not trying

t o j u s t b a s h them, b u t what I guess I ' m t r y i n g

t o say is, s o m e t i m e s i t ' s d a n g e r o u s t o r e l y on

t h e way a s t o r y i s r e p o r t e d . And w h a t t h e

j u d g e would t e l l you i s t h e d e c i s i o n t h a t you

make i n t h i s c a s e h a s t o be b a s e d o n t h e
evidence t h a t t h e sides present in the trial.

Do y o u t h i n k y o u c o u l d b a s e y o u r d e c i s i o n o n

t h e evidence p r e s e n t e d i n the t r i a l o r would

you be a f f e c t e d b y w h a t you s a w o n T V ?

A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) P r o b a b l y w h a t I saw o n
TV.

Q. Okay. Fair enough.

How a b o u t y o u , Mr. Hodge? D i d you

see a n y t h i n g a b o u t t h i s case o r read a n y t h i n g ?

A. (By M r . Hodge) Yes, on t h e news.

Q. B a c k when i t h a p p e n e d o r m o r e

recently before the t r i a l ?

A. (By M r . Hodge) Bot,h.

Q. Based on what you s a w a n d heard, did

you form any o p i n i o n about M r . Dorsey's g u i l t ?

A. (By M r . Hodge) Yes.

Q. Do y o u t h i n k t h a t y o u c o u l d s e t t h a t

p r e c o n c e p t i o n aside a n d make your d e c i s i o n

based on t h e e v i d e n c e you h e a r d from t h e

witness s t a n d i n t h e courtroom?

A. (By M r . Hodge) I t h i n k I w o u l d be

open.
 1 Q. You t h i n k y o u w o u l d b e o p e n . Okay.

2 F a i r enough. So i f t h e j u d g e t o l d what you

3 h e a r d o n t h e n e w s may n o t b e r i g h t , focus on

the evidence, do you think you c o u l d do t h a t ?

A. (By M r . Hodge) Yes.

Q. Thank you, sir.

7 How a b o u t y o u , Ms. Johnson. Have y o u

8 heard anything about t h i s case?

9 A. (By M s . Johnson) Yes, I heard about

10 i t when it first happened and then on the n e w s

recently.

12 Q. Have y o u f o r m e d a n y c o n c l u s i o n s a b o u t .

Mr. D o r s e y ' s g u i l t b a s e d o n t h e n e w s c o v e r a g e
1
14 you have s e e n ?

15 A. (By M s . Johnson) No.

16 Q. Do y o u t h i n k t h a t i f y o u were a s k e d

17 t o serve as a j u r o r i n t h i s case, you c o u l d

18 f a i r l y l i s t e n t o t h e e v i d e n c e a n d make a

19 d e c i s i o n on t h a t ?

20 A. (By M s . Johnson) Yes.

21 Q. Thank you, ma'am.

22 How a b o u t y o u , ma'am? Ms. Dennis.

23 A. (By M s . Dennis) Y e s , I ' v e heard.

24 Q. Have you formed any conclusions about

25 M r . Dorsey's guilt?

26 A. (By M s . Dennis) No.

27 Q. I ' m sorry.

28 A. (By M s . Dennis) No.

29 Q. I talked over you.

30 A. (By M s . Dennis) No.

31 Q. No. Thank you. If we are both

32 t a l k i n g a t t h e same t i m e , Ms. Beggs has t o t r y

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 .- ..

1 to decide w h o to take down.

2 So if you were selected a s a j u r o r in

3 this c a s e , d o you believe that you c o u l d in

.4 f a c t make a d e c i s i o n based on the e v i d e n c e you

5 heard in the courtroom rather t h a n what you

6 may have seen o n the news?

A. (By Ms. Dennis) Yes.

Q. Thank you, ma'am.

Ms. St. Pierre, how a b o u t y o u , ma'am.

10 Have y o u heard anything about this c a s e ? ' '

11 A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) Yes.

12 Q. Did you form any conclusion b a s e d o n

13 what you heard - - well, l e t me a s k first, when

14 did you hear what you heard, b a c k when it

15 happened, more recently - -

16 A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) B o t h .

17 Q. Both. Based o n that, d i d you form a n y

18 conclusions about the defendant's g u i l t ?

19 A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) Yes.

20 Q. Do you think that u n d e r s t a n d i n g that

21 s o m e t i m e s the media g e t s things wrong, c o u l d

22 you s e t t h a t aside and base your v e r d i c t i n

23 the case o n the evidence only that you heard

24 inside the courtroom?

25 A. (By M s . St. Pierre) Probably not.

26 Q. Probably not.

27 A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) N o .

28 Q. D o you feel that what you b e l i e v e to

29 be the facts i s . s u c h a strong opinion t h a t i t

30 would come i n t o the courtroom with y o u ?

G .

31 A. (By M s . S t . Pierre) Probably.

32
i Q. T h a n k y o u , ma'am.

,
 ...

iE
Mr. Burks, h a v e you h e a r d a n y t h i n g m
r:3

4
5

7 guilt?

8 A. (By M r . Burks) Yes, I have.

9 Q. DO YOU t h i n k t h a t you c o u l d set that I

10 c o n v i c t i o n -- ' n o pun i n t e n d e d -- do you think

11 you c o u l d s e t t h a t b e l i e f aside and focus your

12 d e c i s i o n s on t h e e v i d e n c e t h a t you h e a r d i n

13 the courtroom r a t h e r than your preconceived

14 notions from t h e news?

15 A. (By M r . Burks) I w i l l be open t o

16 listen t o both sides.

17 Q. So even t h o u g h y o u may h a v e a n

18 opinion, you feel that y o u c o u l d s t i l l be

19 unbiased towards o r against M r . Dorsey?

I
20 A. (By M r . Burks) Yes.

21 Q. And t h e S t a t e . Thank you, sir.

22 How a b o u t y o u , Ms. Harris. Have y o u

23 heard anything about t h i s case?

24 A. (By M s . Harris) No.

25 Q. Nothing t h a t might a f f e c t you coming

26 i n here at a l l ?

27 A. (By M s . Harris) No.

28

29
Q. Okay. Thank you,

How a b o u t y o u , Ms.
ma'am.

Johnson.
I
30 A. (By M s . Johnson) No.

31 Q. Is t h a t a no p o s s i b l e outside effect

32 from anything you've heard up u n t i l now?

307
60'23
 V '

A. (By M s . J o h n s o n ) No.

Q. I ' m a lawyer. We h a v e t o a s k t h e

e x a c t s a m e q u e s t i o n twice t w o d i f f e r e n t ways.

I t ' s j u s t - - they teach u s t h a t in l a w s c h o o l .

How a b o u t y o u , Ms. A n d r e w s .
A. (By Ms. Andrews) No, I a m not

f a m i l i a r a t all.

a Q. So n o t h i n g that w o u l d a f f e c t y o u r

9 a b i l i t y t o s e r v e f a i r l y a n d i m p a r t i a l l y , you

10 don't have any preconceptions?

11 A. ( B y M s . Andrews) No, sir.

12 Q. H o w a b o u t y o u , Ms. W i l l i a m s .

13 A. (By Ms. Williams) I heard about it

'14 when i t h a p p e n e d a n d t h e n o n t h e news,

15 Q. B a s e d on what y o u saw, was t h a t on

16 TV, newspaper - -

17 A. ( B y Ms. W i l l i a m s ) O n T V .

18 Q. B a s e d on t h a t , h a v e y o u f o r m e d a n y

19 c o n c l u s i o n s a b o u t Mr. D o r s e y ' s g u i l t ?

20 A. ( B y Ms. W i l l i a m s ) No.

21 Q. Do you think t h a t y o u c o u l d k e e p a

22 f a i r a n d o p e n mind if you were s e l e c t e d as, a

23 j u r o r in t h i s c a s e ?

24 A. ( B y Ms. W i l l i a m s ) Yes.

25 Q. H o w a b o u t you, Mr. Dozier.

26 A. ( B y Mr. Dozier) I h e a r d a b o u t i t w h e n

27 i t h a p p e n e d in '06.

28 Q. Based o n what you h e a r d b a c k t h e n ,

29 d i d y o u reach any c o n c l u s i o n s a b o u t

30 Mr. D o r s e y ' s g u i l t ?

31 A. ( B y Mr. D o z i e r ) No, s i r .

32 Q. D o you think t h a t you c o u l d b e f a i r

308
6024
 1 a n d i m p a r t i a l a n d l e a v e w h a t e v e r y o u h e a r d on

t h e T V o r the paper back w h e r e i t w a s and

f o c u s o n the e v i d e n c e p r e s e n t e d in t h e c a s e ?

A. ( B y Mr. Dozier) Y e s , I c o u l d .

Q. Thank youf Mr. D o z i e r .

6 H o w a b o u t y o u , Mr. D e w e t t .

8
I A. ( B y Mr. D e w e t t ) I d o n o t r e c a l l

h e a r i n g or s e e i n g anything.

9 Q. So n o p r e c o n c e p t i o n t h a t w o u l d a f f e c t

10 you as a juror?

11 A. ( B y M r . D e w e t t ) No.

12 Q. Thank you, sir.

13 H o w a b o u t y o u , Mr. S m i t h .

14 A. (By M r . S m i t h ) I h a d h e a r d t h a t i t
15

16
I was j u s t a m u r d e r trial.

Q.
That's all I heard.

So t h a t w o u l d n ' t n e c e s s a r i l y a f f e c t

17 you?

18 A. ( B y Mr. S m i t h ) No, sir.

19 Q. You could be f a i r a n d i m p a r t i a l ?

20 A. (By Mr. S m i t h ) Yes, s i r .

2 1 Q. How a b o u t y o u f Ms. B a r n e s .

22 A. (By M s . B a r n e s ) Y e s , I h a v e .

23 Q. B a s e d on what you - - I ' d a s k t h a t y o u

24 s p e a k u p b e c a u s e you a r e in s o r t of t h e

25 farthest.

26 A. ( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) O k a y .

27 Q. Based on what you h a v e h e a r d , h a v e

28 you f o r m e d a n y p r e c o n c e i v e d n o t i o n s a b o u t

29 Mr. Dorsey's guilt?

30 A. ( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) No.
I

31 Q. Do you think t h a t t h a t p r e t r i a l

32 p u b l i c i t y t o w h i c h you w e r e e x p o s e d w o u l d

309
6 0 23
Y
 .-

a f f e c t y o u i n a n y way o r c o u l d y o u f o c u s on

t h e e v i d e n c e t h a t was p r e s ' e n t e d i n t h e c a s e ?

Q* T h a n k you, ma'am.
Ms. M o u s e r , I t h i n k you know w h a t I I
am g o i n g t o a s k y o u .

A. (By M s . Mouser) I do.

Q. Have y o u h e a r d a n y t h i n g a b o u t t h i s

10 case?

11 A. (By M s . Mouser) I heard about it

12 when i t h a p p e n e d , but since then I have not

13 seen or heard anything about it.

14 Q. ( B Y Ms. M o u s e r ) Based on t h a t
15 coverage, did you f o r m a n y o p i n i o n a b o u t

16 M r . Dorsey's guilt?

17 A. (By M s . Mouser) N o .

18 Q. D o you t h i n k t h a t e v e n t h o u g h y o u ' v e

19 s e e n a l i t t l e b i t a b o u t it on t h e news -- d i d

20 you see a l i t t l e b i t o r a l o t ?

21 A. (By M s . Mouser) I just s a w i t when it

22 first happened and I d i d n ' t -- I d o n ' t usually

23 g e t home i n t i m e t o w a t c h t h e e v e n i n g n e w s .

24 So I d o n ' t know.

25 Q. Do y o u b r i n g i n a n y p r e c o n c e p t i o n s

26 about Mr. Dorsey's guilt?

27 A. (By M s . Mouser) No.

28 Q. Thank you, ma'am.

29 Ms. Yeates.

30 A. (By M s . Yeates) J u s t Sunday a b o u t

31 j u r y s e l e c t i o n i s t h e f i r s t I heard a b o u t it.

32 Q. D i d anything i n t h a t s t o r y make you

310
6026
 Ik
x
b e l i e v e h e w a s g u i l t y or n o t g u i l t y ? mr
$1
A. ( B y M s . Yeates) No. I am open-

minded.

4 M R . O'CALLAGHAN: May we approach,

5 Your Honor.

6 THE COURT: You may.

7 ( W h e r e u p o n a side- bar d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e

8 record was held.)

9 (Whereupon the venire p a n e l was e x c u s e d f r o m

10 the courtroom.)

11 ( W h e r e u p o n the d e f e n d a n t w a s p r e s e n t with

12 counsel. )

13 MR. O ' C A L L A G H A N : .Your H o n o r , b a c k on

14 t h e record, w e a r e outside the p r e s e n c e o f the

15 prospective jurors. W e w e r e d i s c u s s i n g a t the

16 b e n c h , the S t a t e w o u l d s u g g e s t s u b j e c t t o a n y

17 defense counsel's objection returning those

18 jurors who expressed significant hardships

19 about sequestration, expressed significant

20 preconceived opinions based on pretrial

21 p u b l i c i t y , a n d I would l i k e t o b r i n g b a c k

22 Mr. S t a p l e s t o f i n d o u t what h i s i s s u e s with

23 the e n t i r e c r i m i n a l j u s t i c e .

24 ( W h e r e u p o n t h e p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s s e a t e d in

25 the courtroom.)

26 THE COURT: That's fine right there,

27 Mr. S t a p l e s . W e j u s t b r o u g h t y o u i n t o a s k you

28 a f e w q u e s t i o n s o u t s i d e t h e p r e s e n c e of the

29 o t h e r jurors.

30 I s the S t a t e r e a d y p r o c e e d .

31 MR. O ' C A L L A G H A N : Yes, Your Honor.

32 T h a n k y o u , sir.
I
 .-
\
-..-

~ 1
,I
2 F U R T H E R VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N
I

3 BY M R . O ' C A L L A G H A N :

4 Q. Mr. S t a p l e s , y o u v o i c e d some -- I
5 d o n ' t want t o p u t w o r d s i n y o u r m o u t h - - some

6 grave concerns or some attitudes about the

7 c r i m i n a l j u s t i c e t h a t you felt n e e d e d to b e

8 e x p l o r e d privately. T h i s is as a b o u t a s

9 private as we can get. If you could share

10 t h a t w i t h u s , so you c a n l e t u s k n o w i f you

11 think t h a t ' s going t o a f f e c t y o u r j u r y

12 service.

13 A. (By M r . S t a p l e s ) I d o n o t f u l l y

14 embrace the criminal j u s t i c e s y s t e m d u e t o the

15 f a c t tha't I h a d the e x p e r i e n c e o f s o m e

16 s o - c a l l e d i n j u s t i c e s in g r o w i n g u p i n C h i c a g o .

17 I was b o r n a n d raised in C h i c a g o .

18 Q. Okay.

19 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) D u r i n g t h e '60s a n d

20 '70s.

'2 1 Q. And that was a turbulent time.

22 A. Very t u r b u l e n t t i m e , v e r y t u r b u l e n t .

23 Q. Do you f e e l that t h o s e a t t i t u d e s a n d

, 24 t h o s e e x p e r i e n c e s in C h i c a g o , y o u k n o w , t w o

25 t h i n g s , o n e , I ' m n o t t r y i n g t o a r g u e wit'h y o u .

26 I ' m j u s t t r y i n g to g e t h o w y o u f e e l .

27 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) O k a y .

28 Q. A n d m a y b e we d i s a g r e e on t h i s , b u t i t

29 h a s b e e n a while.

30 A. ( B y M r . S t a p l e s ) About f o r t y - o n e

31 years.

32 Q. It's a different, you know, different

312
($028
 .-

1 time. Do you think that you still have some

CJ
~

2 issues with the criminal justice system even

~ 3 though that time has passed and there have

4 been a lot of changes in our country?

A. (By Mr. S t a p l e s ) I s t i l l h a v e issues.

Q. Do you think that those would impair

you from being a fair juror to either side?

A. (By Mr. Staples) They would.

Q. I'll just go ahead and ask, I think I

10 know, but which side do you f e e l l i k e Y O U

11 would have problem accepting or giving a fair

12 shake?

13 A. (By Mr. Staples) Well, as I said

14 before, I just don't embrace the system

15 wholeheartedly. I do respect the laws which

16 were say implemented say by the f e d e r a l

17 government, state governments or local

18 governments, so on. I do respect and abide by

19 the laws, but so far as participating in the

20 say penalties that are being issued for

21 breaking those laws, I d o n ' t feel that I would

22 a good person to have that power delegated to

23 someone.

24 Q. Do you think you would find it really

25 hard to ever convict anyone of a crime?

26 A. (By Mr. Staples) I would, I would.

27 Q. I mean, I appreciate your c a n d o r . So

28 is there anything that I say or the defense

29 lawyer likely t o change your view a b o u t that?

30 A. (By Mr. Staples) The events that

31 occurred made a very profound effect o n my,

32 say, psyche o r existence or whatever. And if

313
6029
you would like for me to elaborate, I would.

Q. I mean, if you feel comfortable. I'm

not - - I need to know whether or not you can

be a fair juror. I need to know that. And I

feel like you are telling m e , if you want to

share what happened to make that clearer, by cp

'

all means.

A. (By Mr. Staples) I guess you could

say I'm a throwback to t h e '60s. I was, like

I said, attending school i n C h i c a g o . There

was an incident that occurred at one of the

elementary schools where a child was struck by

a bus. And there was no stoplight at this

particular intersection where the s c h o o l k i d s

would frequent, say, after school. And a

friend of mine, personal friend of mine, by

the Johnny Sotre, he organized a protest to,

say, protest against the city and the other

people in power or whatever to have a stop

light installed at this particular corner.

This went on for I guess several weeks a n d , o f

course, the city gave in and the stoplight was

installed. And several weeks after this had

occurred,, this young gentleman was gunned down

by a member of the Chicago Police Department.

And it was the usual scenario which was given

in, say, as a result of something like this,

it was said that he was stopped t o be

questioned and a scuffled ensued, the gun went

off and the ricochet hit him in the b a c k of

the head. Okay. Now, on the day o f his

funeral - - this was once again in Chicago - -

314
6030
h i s b r o t h e r was summoned. He was s e r v i n g in
Vietnam. H i s o l d e r b r o t h e r was s u m m o n e d to

c o m e h o m e f o r t h e funeral. O n t h e d a y of h i s

f u n e r a l , h i s o l d e r b r o t h e r was a l s o g u n n e d

down by the Chicago Police Department. This

was u n d e r the p r e t e n s e that he h a d r o b b e d the

A & P Grocery store after the funeral. And

this, like I said, these incidents of, I would

call them, just flagrant injustice, you know,

i t ’ s j u s t made a p r o f o u n d effect or i m p a c t on

m e , and I h a v e r e s e r v a t i o n s a b o u t t h e
so-called criminal justice system in that

regard.

Also, the n i g h t t h a t - - y o u p r o b a b l y

heard about it -- t h e Fred Hampton,

M a r k C l a r k , the former l e a d e r s of t h e

C h i c a g o B l a c k P a n t h e r Party o r w h a t e v e r , they

w e r e a s s a s s i n a t e d , a n d t h i s w a s a t t h e beh.est

o r t h e d i r e c t i o n of t h e s t a t e s a t t o r n e y . This

w a s the o r d e r t h a t was g i v e n d o w n f r o m t h e

s t a t e s a t t o r n e y s office. A n d of c o u r s e t h e

s t a t e a t t o r n e y , E d w a r d B. H a n r a h a n . ’ A n d t h e

m o r n i n g t h a t t h i s o c c u r r e d , I w a s , c o m i n g from

what we c a l l a g i g , I was a m u s i c i a n , I p l a y e d

with a band. A n d I w a s j o s t l e d by t h e C h i c a g o

police, four members of the Chicago Police

D e p a r t m e n t , a n d I was searched. There was no

p r o b a b l e c a u s e f o r t h a t search. I w a s

searched. M y i n s t r u m e n t was t a k e n a p a r t a n d

so o n , a n d I was k i n d of r o u g h e d u p . And I

d i d n ’ t k n o w what h a d h a p p e n e d p r e v i o u s t o t h i s

until I had gotten to school the next morning.

315
6031.
 And, like I said, that's another one o f the

r e a s o n s t h a t ' s going t o b e p a r t o f m y

conviction is to having this feeling in

regards the c r i m i n a l j u s t i c e s y s t e m . Also --

Q. Mr. S t a p l e s , l e t me s t o p y o u t h e r e .
A. ( B y Mr. Staples) O k a y .

Q. I think I get everything you're

s a y i n g a n d I feel t h a t i t ' s f a i r t o s a y y o u

9 feel strongly about this?

10 A. ( B y M r . S t a p l e s ) I r e a l l y do.

11 MR. O ' C A L L A G H A N : I appreciate it, sir.

12 I ' m n o t t r y i n g t o c u t you o f f . I think I

13 understand where you're coming f r o m .

14 THE J U R O R : ( B y Mr. Staples) T h a n k you.

15 M R . -0'CALLAGHAN: No further questions,

16 Y o u r Honor.

17

18 VOIR DIRE E X A M I N A T I O N

19 BY MR. GOLDEN:

20 Q. Mr. S t a p l e s , d e s p i t e o u r f a i l i n g s i n

21 the p a s t a n d d e s p i t e t h e e r r o r s t h a t w e m a d e ,

22 c a n y o u t h i n k o f any s y s t e m o f j u s t i c e in t h e

23 world that's better than ours?

24 A. (By Mr. S t a p l e s ) N o , I cannot.

25 Q. W h o d o you t h i n k m a k e s o u r s y s t e m

26 work?

27 A. (By Mr. Staples) Well, the people.

28 Q. W h o i s the g r e a t l e v e l e r o f t h e

29 truth?

30 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) ( N o r e s p o n s e . )

3 1 Q. W h a t i s the g r e a t l e v e l e r o f a l l m e n ;

32 i s n ' t i t the jury s y s t e m ?

316,
 .-

A. ( B y M r . S t a p l e s ) When i t w o r k s , y e s ,

it is. But s t i l l again, you ha've t o r e a l i z e

3 t h a t t h e j u r y s y s t e m you s t i l l h a v e t h e human

4 e l e m e n t involved. We, a s h u m a n b e i n g s , a r e

5 governed by our e m o t i o n s , a n d a l o t o f

6 e m o t i o n s are j u s t inherent.

7 Q. True.

8 A. (By Mr. S t a p l e s ) T h a t s a y of l o v e ,

9 h a t e , a n g e r a n d h a p p i n e s s a n d so on, t h e r e ' s

10 always going t o be that variable there, that

11 i s g o i n g t o affect the o u t c o m e , t h e t o t a l

12 o u t c o m e of any d e c i s i o n t h a t m i g h t b e m a d e by

13 a s o - c a l l e d jur.y.

14 Q. Mr. S t a p l e s .
15 A. ( B Y M r . S t a p l e s ) Yes, sir.

16 Q. Do you believe t h a t s o m e t i m e s j u r o r s
\

17 make bad decisions?

18 A. ( B y M r . S t a p l e s ) Y e s , t h e y do.

19 Q. A n d as a result of t h o s e b a d

20 d e c i s i o n s , t h e r e a r e s o m e t i m e s m i s c a r r i a g e s of

21 justice?

22 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) Yes.

23 Q. And s o m e t i m e s t h o s e m i s c a r r i a g e s

24 r e s u l t in w r o n g f u l c o n v i c t i o n s .

25 A. (By Mr. S t a p l e s ) Um- hum.

26 Q. Wrongful sentences, right?

27 A. (By Mr. Staples) That's right.

28 Q. S o m e t i m e s w r o n g f u l a c q u i t t a l s of

29 s o m e b o d y w h o i s really g u i l t y .

30 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) T h a t ' s r i g h t . It

31 works both ways.

32 Q. A n d in o r d e r t o m a k e i t b e t t e r o r
 ..-.

I m o r e p e r f e c t t a k e s g o o d p e o p l e , d o e s n ' t it?
I 1
2 A. (By Mr. Staples) I t d o e s .

3 Q. Are y o u a m a n of c o n v i c t i o n ?

4 A. (By Mr. Staples) I am a man of

5 conviction, sir.
Q. You a r e a man w h o ' s n o t o n l y s e e n b u t

a p p a r e n t l y experienced s o m e w r o n g d o i n g ?

A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) I h a v e l i v e d t h r o u g h

9 it. I d i d n ' t t e l l you a b o u t t h e s h a k e d o w n by

10 the p o l i c e - -

11 Q. T h a t ' s o k a y , but I u n d e r s t a n d y o u

12 ' went t h r o u g h a l o t .

13 A. (By Mr. Staples) Yeah, i t was q u i t e a

14 bit, v e r y traumatic.
15 Q. L e t ' s say you were a r r e s t e d f o r a

16 c r i m e r i g h t , right h e r e , what k i n d of j u r o r

17 w o u l d you want to d e c i d e t h a t c a s e ?

18 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) (No response.)

19 Q. D e c i d e your c a s e , y o u r g u i l t o r

20 innocence?

21 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) W e l l , m o s t o f a l l ,

22 you w o u l d want an i m p a r t i a l j u r o r , s o m e o n e

23 w h o i s n o t going. t o s a y l o o k a t c e r t a i n

24 a s p e c t s of the character. I mean, the way you

25 d r e s s , the way you t a l k , the way y o u l o o k , a n d

26 so o n , t h a t ' s i m p a r t i a l .
27 Q. Somebody who is impartial?

28 A. ( B y M r . S t a p l e s ) Impartial.

29 Q. You w o u l d want s o m e o n e w h o ' s

30 objective?

31 A. ( B y M r . Staples) O b j e c t i v e , y e s .

32 Q. Someone who is articulate.

 ..--.

e
1 ,

I"

A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) Yes.

Q. S o m e b o d y who i s d i l i g e n t i n l i s t e n i n g

to the evidence and analyzing the evidence,

4 right?

5 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) Y e s , s i r .

6 Q. C o u l d you be s u c h a person?

7 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) I d o n ' t t h i n k so,

8 no.

9 Q. Why couldn't you b e ?

10 A. ( B y Mr. S t a p l e s ) I couldn't be

11 objective. I c o u l d n ' t be. T h e scars a r e t o o

12 deep. T h e s c a r s are t o o d e e p .

13 Q. S e e , h e r e ' s what I am h a v i n g a

14 p r o b l e m with.

15 A. ( B y M r . Staples) O k a y .

16 Q. Is t h a t you'.re c o m p l a i n i n g a b o u t a

17 s y s t e m t h a t you f e e l i s s o m e t i m e s u n j u s t a n d

18 y e t , you u n d e r s t a n d what the b a s i c f l a w s a r e

19 t h a t we h a v e s o m e t i m e s , a n d ' y e t b e c a u s e of

20 y o u r u n d e r s t a n d i n g , you w o u l d s e e m l i k e t h e

21 perfect juror who could help remedy that, but

22 y e t y o u are unwilling t o put i n t h a t p o s i t i o n

23 t o h e l p make it b e t t e r . Do you s e e t h e

24 inconsistency?

25 A. ( B y Mr. ,Staples) W e l l , I g u e s s y o u

26 c o u l d s a y i t ' s an i n c o n s i s t e n c y t h e r e , b u t I

27 j u s t d o n ' t buy i n t o i t . I don't. You speak

28 o f j u s t i c e h e r e in the'se, you c a l l t h e s e h a l l s

29 o f j u s t i c e o r the c o u r t h o u s e , t h i s i s t h e

30 p l a c e w h e r e justice i s a d m i n i s t e r e d a n d so on.

31 I c a m e t o S h r e v e p o r t in 1975. Okay.

32 T h e r e was a n issue s o m e y e a r s b a c k , I d o n ' t

319
 1 mean to get off the subject, but I guess it m
E3
2 would be considered also in regards t o say the

3 law, in front of the courthouse, the

4 Confederate flag f l i e s . , Okay. T h i s a symbol

of one of the most, to m e , one o f the most

h e i n o u s crimes ever committed t o a n o t h e r

member of the human race, and I just d o n ' t see

how you could say that, I mean, you're here

9 for justice, and then again you overlook this

10 great injustice by continuing to f l y this flag

11 which continues to say put salt in the w o u n d s

12 of say people of color, I don't buy it. I

13 d o n ' t buy it. And it i s not - -

14 Q* Mr. Staples.
15 A. (By Mr. Staples) - - prejudice or

16 anything like that, but it's just the idea.

17 Q. Mr. Staples.

18 A. (By Mr. Staples) It's contradicting.

19 You are contradicting yourself.

20 Q. We can't solve all the problems of

21 the world.

22 A. (By Mr. Staples) N o , we can't.

23 Q. But right now we have a specific case

24 that's coming to trial for a very, very

25 serious offense, and we are trying to make

26 this the best system that we can. I t takes

27 conscientious people to d o that. And what you

28 have expressed are conscientious scruples

29 about a variety of issues. So that tells me

30 that you 'are conscientious person; am I right?

31 A. (By Mr. Staples) You are right.

32 Q. But yet you don't want to h e l p make

320
6036
 I

the system better by adding yourself, your

conscientious self into the process a s a

conscientious decision-maker. You don't want

to give us the b e n e f i t of your insights,.your

objective way o f looking at things.

A. ( B y Mr. Staples) No, I don't.

Q. You're saying you could not be fair

and impartial?

9 A. ( B Y Mr. Staples) I could n o t b e fair

10 and impartial. Like I said, I don't embrace

11 the system wholeheartedly. I ' l l abide by the

12 laws. I will not break the laws and t h a t ' s a s

13 f a r a s I can go with i t . That's as f a r a s I

14 can go.
0

15 Q. You are unwilling t o help U S

16 administer it, though; is that what you're

17 saying?

18 A. (By Mr. Staples) Yes, that's the best

19 I can do.

20 MR. GOLDEN: Thank you.

2 1 N o further questions.

22 THE COURT: Anything further by the

23 State?

24 MR. 0'CALLAGHA.N: No, Your Honor.

25 THE COURT: All right. Thank you,

26 Mr. Staples. You may return outside, and we

27 will call you back shortly.

28 (Whereupon the prospective juror was excused

29 from the courtroom.)

30 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Your Honor, the State

31 would move to excuse Mr. Staples for cause,

32 his inability to be fair and impartial, his

321

6037
I 1
I
I
I 2 (Whereupon a discussion off the record was
,
3 held.)

4 THE COURT:

t h i s process and
A n d t h e n we w i l l c o n t i n u e

h o p e f u l l y g e t y o u o u t in a
I
few h o u r s . It w i l l t a k e a f e w h o u r s o n

tomorrow. Also p l e a s e d o n o t w a t c h t h e n e w s

t o n i g h t . P l e a s e d o n o t r e a d any n e w s p a p e r s

about the case or listen to any radio accounts

10 o f the c a s e o r d i s c u s s t h e matter with a n y o n e

11 a n d p l e a s e d o n o t f o r m any o p i n i o n s . With

12

13
t h a t mind, you a r e f r e e t o l e a v e .

(Whereupon the prospective jurors were excused

I
14 f r o m the courtroom.)

15 (Whereupon a d i s c u s s i o n o f f t h e r e c o r d was

16 held.)

17 THE COURT: Let's just do it in a group

18 s e t t i n g . Do y o u want t o t e n d e r f o r t h i s

19 p u r p o s e t o Mr. G o l d e n , t o t h e d e f e n s e t e a m ,
20 a n d s e e h o w t h e i r p o s i t i o n s a r e w i t h it?

21 MR. G O L D E N : That's fine, Your Honor.

22 THE COURT: W e w i l l b r i n g t h e m i n and

23 let defense counsel question them.

24 (Whereupon the prospective jurors were seated

25 in the courtroom.)

26 THE COURT: M r . G o l d e n , a r e y o u ready

27 to proceed.

28 MR. GOLDEN: Yes, Your Honor.

29 THE COURT: All right.

30

31

32

323
 0
2
;E
1 VOIR D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N m
r:;P
2 B Y MR. G O L D E N : It

1 ,*I*

(1
3 Q. The ones that are here right now, I
PA1
I'h (I
4 t h i n k a l l of you expressed that you would have Q
klbl

5 a h a r d s h i p with s e r v i n g o n t h e jury for a w e e k P,1(

Q
(9
6 o r t w o , a lock- up jury; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ? u3

7 A. ( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) Yes.

8 A. ( B y Ms. S t . P i e r r e ) Yes.

9 A. (By Ms. Knowles) Yes.

10 A. ( B y M r . H o d g e ) Yes.

11 A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) Yes.

12 A. ( B y M r . B r o w n ) Yes.

13 Q. I ' l l s t a r t with y o u , Ms. B a r n e s ,

1 4 since you are closest to m e . I think y o u said

15 you h a d t h r e e or f o u r c h i l d r e n ?

16 A. ( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) Four.

17 Q. Are you m a r r i e d ?

18 A. (By M s . B a r n e s ) Yes. S e p a r a t e d .

19 Q. Separated. I f you h a d t o s e r v e , is

20 t h e r e a n y o n e e l s e who c o u l d w a t c h y o u r

21 c h i l d r e n l i k e your h u s b a n d , y o u r e x - h u s b a n d ?

22 A. ( B y M s . B a r n e s ) He w o r k s g r a v e y a r d

23 shift.

24 Q. So y o u w o u l d h a v e n o b o d y t o w a t c h

25 them a t n i g h t ?

26 A. ( B y M s . B a r n e s ) My m o t h e r o r m y ,

27 mother-in-law.

28 Q. So a r r a n g e m e n t s c o u l d b e m a d e .

29 A. ( B y M s . B a r n e s ) Yes.

30 Q. O t h e r than that, d o y o u h a v e a n y

31 other hardships?

32 A. ( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) N o .
- ,

324
ti 0 4 0
 1 Q. And you think arrangements could be

2 made?

3 A. (By M s . Barnes) Could be.

4 Q. As far as pretrial publicity, you had

5 heard something but h a d n o o p i n i o n a b o u t i t ?

6 A. (By M s . Barnes) No.

7 Q. Ms. St. Pierre.

8 A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) Yes.

9 Q. You h e a r d s o m e t h i n g l a b o u t t h i s , b u t
10 you have no opinion at this point?

11 A. (By M s . St. Pierre) No, I heard

12 something about it, and I did have an opinion.

13 Q- You did have an opinion?

1 4 A. (By M S . St. P i e r r e ) Y e s .

15 Q. D o you have a strong opinion?

16 A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) A fairly strong

17 opinion.

18 Q. Is it an opin'ion that you feel you

19 cannot - - you would be unable to s e t aside?

20 A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) It would b e

21 difficult for me to set it aside.

22 Q. And you think that would prevent you

23 from being and impartial?

24 A. (By M s . St. Pierre) Yes, sir.

25 Q. Sometimes we ask people t o d o

26 difficult things like forget something or set

27 something aside.

28 A. (By M s . St. Pierre) Um-hum.

29 Q. I f we asked you to do it, would you

30 b e able to d o it?

31 A. (By M s . St. Pierre) I would try to.

32 Q. Could you give us any guarantee that

325
6041.
y o u w o u l d totally be able t o d o that?

A. ( B y Ms. S t . P i e r r e ) I c o u l d n o t

g u a r a n t e e it.

Q. Do' you think i t w o u l d r e a s o n a b l y

p r e v e n t you from being impartial?

A. ( B y Ms. St. P i e r r e ) Yes.

Q. When I s a y "reasonably p r e v e n t , " I ' m

asking, would there be a reasonable likelihood

t h a t i t w o u l d interfere with y o u r a b i l i t y t o

be impartial?

A. ( B y M s . St. Pierre) Yes.

Q. D e s p i t e what we w o u l d t e l l y o u .

A. (By Ms. St. Pierre) Um-hum.

Q. Okay. Thank you, Ms. S t . Pierre.

Ms. Knowles.

A. ( B y Ms. K n o w l e s ) Yes.

Q. Your h a r d s h i p a g a i n w a s w h a t ?

A. (By M s . K n o w l e s ) I h a v e s i x k i d s a t

home. My husband works nights and there is no

o n e t o w a t c h them o v e r n i g h t . My mother-in-law

m a y b e c a n watch them in t h e d a y t i m e b u t n o t a t

night.

Q. You c o u l d n ' t m a k e a r r a n g e m e n t s t o

t a k e c a r e of them a t n i g h t ?

A. ( B y M s . K n o w l e s ) No.

Q. T h a n k you. O h , b y t h e w a y , y o u

m e n t i o n e d t h a t you a l s o h a d k n o w l e d g e o f t h e

case?

A. (By Ms. Knowles) I had seen some of

i t when i t f i r s t h a p p e n e d a n d o n t h e n e w s t h i s

week.

Q. D i d you form any o p i n i o n a b o u t i t ?

326
6042
 ~~

1 A. ( B y M s . K n o w l e s ) No, I d i d n ' t .

2 Q. Are you Mr. J o n e s ?

3 A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) J o n e s .

4 Q. Y o u would h a v e a s l i g h t h a r d s h i p ,

5 that YOU would l o s e some money?

6 A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) I t won't - - it will be

7 a hardship, not a slight.

8 Q. You work on a n h o u r l y b a s i s , y o u

9 said?

10 A. (By Mr. Jones) Yes, most of my income

11 c o m e s from t i p s .

12 Q. There's no arrangements for making up

13 t h e i n c o m e i f you h a v e t o d o j u r y s e r v i c e ?

14 A. (By M r . J o n e s ) N o .

15 Q. Y O U said you had some knowledge a b o u t

16 the case.
17 A. ( B y M r . J o n e s ) W h e n it f i r s t

18 h a p p e n e d , you k n o w , I l o o k e d a t i t a n d t h a t

19 w a s it. Never d e e p i n t o it.

20 Q. Do you h a v e any o p i n i o n a b o u t t h i s

21 case?

22 A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) F r o m what I s a w , I

23 m a d e an o p i n i o n a b o u t it.

24 Q. Is i t a s t r o n g o p i n i o n ?

25 A. (By Mr. J o n e s ) R i g h t . A s t r o n g

26 opinion.

27 Q. Is it s o m e t h i n g t h a t y o u c o u l d s e t

28 aside?

29 A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) No, b a s e d o n w h a t you

30 s a i d a n d h e a r d , .I c a n ' t .

31 Q. D o you f e e l l i k e t h e r e i s a - - e v e n

32 if we a s k e d y o u t o s e t it a s i d e , d o y o u t h i n k
I

327
 1 it would still influence y o u ?

A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) I g u e s s .

Q. I ' m sorry. I didn't hear your

answer.

A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) C o u l d y o u r e p e a t t h e

6 question.

7 Q. L e t ' s say we were t o a s k y o u t o s e t

8 t h a t an o p i n i o n aside.

9 A. ( B y M r . J o n e s ) Um- hum.

10 Q. And your knowledge a s i d e , d o y o u

11 t h i n k i t w o u l d still n e v e r t h e l e s s i n f l u e n c e

12 you?

13 A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) No.

14 Q. SO YOU c o u l d p r o b a b l y do t h a t t h e n .
15 A. (By Mr. J o n e s ) No, because you a s k e d

16 me t o s e t i t aside. My m i n d i s s e t f r o m what

17 I saw. My o p i n i o n i s s e t in stone.

18 Q. Y o u r o p i n i o n i s set in s t o n e .

19 A. (By M r . J o n e s ) Um- hum.

20 Q. T h e r e i s n o t h i n g we c o u l d t e l l y o u t o

2 1 c h a n g e t h a t , i s there?

22 A. ( B y Mr. J o n e s ) P r o b a b l y i f i t g o t

23 d e e p i n t o t h e t r i a l or w h a t e v e r , I d o n ' t know

24 no knowledge. I d o n ' t h a v e no k n o w l e d g e o f

25 it. F r o m what I s a w o r h e a r d o r w h a t e v e r , you

26 k n o w , I s e t my mind on, you k n o w , w h a t

27 happened.

28 Q. Thank you, Mr. Jones.

29 Is t h a t M r . H o d g e in t h e p u r p l e ?

30 A. ( B y Mr. Hodge) Yes.

3 1 Q. Mr. H o d g e , you m e n t i o n e d y o u h a d

32 knowledge about this case.

I

A. ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) Yes.

Q. From that knowledge, you have made up

y o u r mind?

A. (By Mr. Hodge) Knowledge, I h a v e a n

o p i n i o n a b o u t it.

Q. You h a v e an o p i n i o n a b o u t t h i s c a s e ?

A. ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) Yes.

Q. Is i t a s t r o n g opinion?

9 A. (By Mr. Hodge) Yes.

10 Q. Do you think it is s o m e t h i n g t h a t y o u

11 c o u l d s e t aside?

12 A. ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) Yeah, I t h i n k I c o u l d

13 be o p e n , open t o t h e c a s e .
14 Q. Do y o u t h i n k t h e r e i s a n y l i k e l i h o o d
15 t h a t your prior knowledge would influence your

16 p a r t i a l i t y in the c a s e ?

17 A. ( B y M r . H o d g e ) I think i t w o u l d h a v e

18 a s l i g h t partiality.

19 Q. If we were a s k y o u to t o t a l l y s e t

20 y o u r k n o w l e d g e aside, d o you t h i n k t h a t w h a t

21 y o u k n o w a b o u t the c a s e w o u l d n e v e r t h e l e s s

22 still influence you?

23 A. ( B y Mr. Hodge) I t h i n k I w o u l d b e

24 open.

25 Q. Be open to listening to the evidence

26 a n d d i s r e g a r d i n g what you a l r e a d y k n o w ?

27 A. ( B y M r . H o d g e ) Yes.

28 Q. And finally, Mr. B r o w n .

29 A. ( B y Mr. B r o w n ) Yes.

30 Q. You h a v e k n o w l e d g e a b o u t t h i s c a s e ?

31 A. ( B y Mr. B r o w n ) Yes. .

32 Q. Would that knowledge cause you to

329
66945
 1 form a n o p i n i o n a b o u t i t ?

2 A. (By M r . ,Brown) I t a l r e a d y h a s .

3 Q. Is it a strong o p i n i o n ?

4 A. ( B y Mr, B r o w n ) Yes.
5 Q. Is it a fixed o p i n i o n ?
6 A. (By M r . B r o w n ) Yes.

7 Q. I f w e were a s k e d t o s e t i t a s i d e ,

8 c o u l d you?

9 A. (By M r . B r o w n ) No. And t h e r e a s o n

10 you c a n ' t because I wear it every day. I've

11 g o t a s e c o n d degree b u r n h e r e ( Indicating ) ,

12 a n d I h a v e g o t a t h i r d degree b u r n h e r e

13 ( Indicating ) . I s p e n t six y e a r s i n t h e

14 corps. Four years i n Nam, and I've seen what

15 napalm does t o people.

16 Q. You are alluding t o i n j u r i e s caused

17 by fire?

18 A. (By M r . Brown) Right.

19 MR. GOLDEN: Thank you, Mr. Brown. I

20 have no f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s .

21 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Your Honor, may I

22 follow up w i t h one area.

23 THE COURT: Sure.

24

25 FURTHER V O I R D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

26 BY M R . O'CALLAGHAN:

27 Q. Ms. Barnes, I ' m not trying t o p i c k on

28 you. I j u s t w a n t t o make sure. I just don't

29 want you t o e n d u p i n a bad s p o t . When you

30 were t a l k i n g t o M r . Golden, you s a i d t h a t you

31 felt l i k e you c o u l d maybe g e t y o u r

32 mother- in- law t o h e l p you w a t c h t h e children?

330
6046
 1 A. ( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) Maybe.
CJ
2 Q. Do you think t h a t t h a t ' s s o m e t h i n g

3 s h e w o u l d b e willing t o d o f o r o n e o r t w o

4 weeks?

5 A. (By Ms. Barnes) She works a l s o .

6 Q. And then my only o t h e r c o n c e r n was,
7 you h a d made the c o m m e n t t h a t y o u w e r e a n x i o u s

8 t h a t you h a d w o u l d b e missing t h e s t a r t of

9 your classes?

10 A. (By Ms. Barnes) Right.

11 Q. And that you might have trouble

12 paying your bills.

13 A. (By Ms. Barnes) I would have trouble.

14 I t i s n o t m i g h t , I would. I wouldn't be
15 working.

16 Q. Do you rent or o w n y o u r h o m e , m a ' a m ?

17 A. ( B y Ms. B a r n e s ) I o w n it.

18 Q. Do you think t h a t t h i s c o u l d i m p e d e

19 o n y o u r a b i l i t y t o make a h o u s e note?

20 A. (By Ms. B a r n e s ) O f c o u r s e . It's t w o

21 weeks.

22 Q. O k a y . Is t h a t the r e s i d e n c e w h e r e you

23 a n d y o u r f o u r c h i l d r e n r e s i d e , ma'am?

24 A. ( B y M s . B a r n e s ) Yes.

25' Q. Is t h a t anything t h a t w o u l d d i s t r a c t

26 you i f y o u were s e l e c t e d a s a juror?

27. A. (By Ms. Barnes) Yes, if I can't pay

28 my b i l l s .

29 Q. I g e t the sense t h a t y o u a r e t r y i n g

30 t o b e , I f e e l like you h e a r d me w h e n I s a i d

3 1 t h i s is i m p o r t a n t .

32 A. ( B y M s . B a r n e s ) Yes.

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 --. .-..

Q. S o m e people have s i t u a t i o n s w h e r e
El
they c a n and can't serve. I'm just t r y i n g to

s e e where you are on that. O n the o n e h a n d , I

4 think y o u are wanting to overcome the

5 obstacles, but I guess what I am a s k i n g i s , d o

6 you t h i n k you really can with the s c h o o l and

7 the financial hardship and the c h i l d c a r e ?

8 A. (By M s . Barnes) No.

9 Q. If any o f t h o s e w e r e s o m e t h i n g y o u

10 couldn't address successfully, would t h a t be a

11 distraction in serving a s a juror?

12 A. (By M s . Barnes) Would you repeat

13 that.
14 Q. In other words, you k n o w , let's say
15 you find c h i l d care and you - - I d o n ' t know - -

16 somebody g i v e s you money in your f a m i l y , but

17 you s t i l l miss class, would t h a t b y i t s e l f be

18 a pretty b i g distraction?

19 A. (By Ms. B a r n e s ) , Y e s , i t would.

20 Q. And the same thing, I mean, i f you

21 g o t your class rescheduled and you h a d c h i l d

22 care, but you didn't make any f i n a n c i a l

23 arrangements, would t h a t by itself b e a b i g

24 problem?
i,
25 A. (By M s . Barnes) Yes.

26 Q. I'm just trying to understand. I

27 appreciate that, Ms. Barnes. I f e e l l i k e you

28 are d o i n g your best - -

29 A. (By Ms. Barnes) Thank you.

30 Q. - - and I d o n ' t want to put you i n a

31 b a d spot.

32 A. Thank you.
.--_

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Thank you, ma'am.

MR. GOLDEN: N o further questions,

Your Honor.

THE COURT: If you all would, return

outside for a minute, we will c a l l y o u back

shortly.

(Whereupon the prospective jurors were excused

from the courtroom.)

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: The State would

respectfully move to excuse M s . Barnes. I

believe that based on her four children of

three, five, seven and fifteen, with a

s e p a r a t i o n in h e r marriage, the fact that she

i s the sole economic provider for those
children, if she doesn't work, she doesn't get

paid and that she's already signed u p for

classes that would commence next week in

Natchitoches, we believe that that would

impair her from being able to focus on the

evidence. I think she was, you know, very

conscientious and tried to serve and give the

good answers, but I d o feel that she would be

too distracted and it would be unreasonable to

ask her to serve.

M R . GOLDEN: No objection, Your Honor.

THE COURT: So ordered. Cause is

granted for M s . Barnes without objection.

M R . GOLDEN: Your Honor, I would move

to excuse M s . St. Pierre on the grounds that

she has knowledge, she has formed an opinion.

The opinion appears to be intractable, and she

made it clear that she could not b e impartial.

 1 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: The State would add Ig
2 that her concerns about anxiety, while by

3 themselves I d o n ' t think are sufficient,

4 combined w i t h h e r p r e t r i a l p u b l i c i t y
5 statements, the State has no objection, we

6 would join in a challenge for cause.

7 THE COURT: So ordered. Cause granted

8 without objection.

9 (Whereupon t h e prospective juror was excused

10 from the venire panel.)
11 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: As t o Ms. Knowles,

12 she indicated she has six children. Actually,

13 I b e l i e v e s h e h a s t h r e e c h i l d r e n o f h e r own
14 and she his the custodian or guardian of three

15 of her grandchildren. She indicated that she

16 - - her husband works nights, that her

17 mother-in-law works nights and that she is

18 not aware of anyone that she could arrange to

19 watch the children at night. Based on that, I

20 felt that she was candid in that and I would

21 move to excuse her for cause as an undue

22 hardship that would distract her from serving

23 as a fair and impartial juror.

24 MR. GOLDEN: The defense would join in

25 that challenge for cause.

26 THE COURT: A l l right. So granted.

27 MR. GOLDEN: Your Honor, the defense

28 would move to strike juror number sixteen,

29 Mr. Jones, on the grounds that from his

30 answers on voir dire, h e could not b e fair and

31 impartial. He said he has knowledge and that

32 knowledge he has formed an opinion. That

334
6050
_--.

opinion i s "set in stone.''

M R . O'CALLAGHAN: No objection by the

S t a t e , Your Honor.
THE COURT: A l l right. So ordered.

Cause i s granted without objection.

(Whereupon the prospective juror was excused

from the venire panel.)

MR. G O L D E N : I w o u l d a l s o move t o
strike Mr. Brown, juror number eighteen. He

has knowledge of this case, and h e has formed

an opinion from that, and he's also suffered

burns which will be part of the evidence in

this case. And he has a v e r y strong opinion

and can't set it aside; therefore, I move to

strike him for cause.

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Your Honor, I would

also note that he also indicated hardship

issues with arranging transportation for his

w i f e who d o e s not drive herself and for whom

she could not arrange transportation, so the

State has no objection to the cause challenge.

THE COURT: C a u s e is granted without

objection.

(Whereupon the prospective juror was excused

from the venire panel.)

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Your Honor, I'm

slightly concerned about Mr. Hodge. One thing

that he said - - and I apologize, I just missed

it in my notes - - but he did make the

statement that he might miss his rent or his

house note if the lost the commission for one

or two weeks. I would just like t o ask him a

335
 ..-

J'

f o l l o w - u p q u e s t i o n a b o u t a n d see if that

h y p e r b o l a e or --
THE C O U R T : That is Mr. H o d g e ?

MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Yes.

MR. GOLDEN: No o b j e c t i o n .
g
c13
THE C O U R T : Please b r i n g M r . H o d g e i n . tr3

(Whereupon the prospective juror was seated in

t h e courtroom. )
THE COURT: You can sit down anywhere

i n t h e jury b o x , Mr. H o d g e . Thank y o u .

FURTHER V O I R D I R E E X A M I N A T I O N

BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN:

Q. Mr. Hodge, I'm trying to get all up

in your business. I'm trying to make sure I

understand your answers. I don't want t o put

you in a situation, you know, I always feel I

laid on the guilt trip at the beginning and

then people feel like they have to say that,

you know, they'll move mountains to serve. Y o u

made the statement when I was talking t o you

before that if you missed - - you said part of

your job was based on commission. Do you mind

if I ask, what do you d o for a living, sir?

A. (By Mr. Hodge) Insurance debit route

agent.

Q. " D e b i t r o u t e a g e n t . " So y o u w o u l d

work with policies in some kind of way and the

more that come through that you process that

you get a piece?

A. (By Mr. Hodge) Collections.

Q. Collections, okay.

336
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 M
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A. ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) R o u t e c o l l e c t i o n s . rn
E3
Q. Route c o l l e c t i o n s . G o t you. F o r

premiums?

A. ( B y Mr. Hodge) Yes.

' Q. You go and gather people's premiums.

T h e p r e m i u m s y o u g a t h e r , you g e t a p e r c e n t a g e

o f that. Okay.

N O W , you made t h e s t a t e m e n t , y o u
I
k n o w , a g a i n , I ' m n o t t r y i n g to i n t r u d e too

m u c h , b u t d o you rent a n a p a r t m e n t o r d o y o u

rent a h o u s e or d o you o w n y o u r home?

A. ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) M y f a m i l y o w n s t h e

house a n d I maintain it and pay the b i l l s .

Q. W h a t w o u l d y o u r c o n c e r n b e o r what

w o u l d y o u r l e v e l o f c o n c e r n b e if y o u h a d t o

m i s s t w o w e e k s o f your i n c o m e s t r e a m b e c a u s e

you w e r e s e q u e s t e r e d as a j u r o r ?

A. ( B y M r . Hodge) I t h i n k i t w o u l d b e
I
p r e t t y significant.
Q. Okay.

A. ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) C o n s i d e r i n g I h a v e

children.

Q. Okay.

A. (By M r . H o d g e ) And a l s o o t h e r t h i n g s

t h a t I h a v e t o maintain.
I
Q. How many kids d o y o u h a v e , s i r ?

A.

Q.
( B y Mr. H o d g e ) Five a l t o g e t h e r .

Are you t h e p r i m a r y c a r e g i v e r or
I
f i n a n c i a l s u p p o r t e r of t h o s e c h i l d r e n ?

A. ( B y M r . H o d g e ) Yes.

Q. Okay. Do they a l l l i v e w i t h y o u ?

A. ( B y Mr. H o d g e ) No.
 Q. So y o u have o b l i g a t ' i o n s t o d i s b u r s e

money t o h e l p s u p p o r t t h e c h i l d r e n a n d t o

m a i n t a i n y o u r home. Bottom line, Mr. Hodge,

i f you a r e selected as a j u r o r , do you t h i n k

y o u would be t h i n k i n g a b o u t those concerns or

would you b l o c k a l l t h a t a n d f o c u s on the

evidence i n t h e case?

A. (By M r . Hodge) I would t r y t o focus

on t h e case, b u t I ' m n o t g o i n g -- I d o n ' t

10 think I ' m going t o be in a financial situation

11 t o undergo t h a t period.

12 Q. Okay. You m i g h t b e a b l e t o s e r v e o n a

13 t w o - d a y 'case o r a three- day case, b u t two

1 4 w e e k s is too m u c h ?

15 A. (By M r . Hodge) Yes.

16 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Fair'enough,

17 Mr. Hodge.

18 I don't have any f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s ,

19 Your Honor.

20 THE JUROR: (By Mr. Hodge) I was j u s t

21 thinking, i f we are sequestered, w i l l i t be

22 t h i s w e e k e n d because I have graduation t h i s

23 weekend.

24 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: From w h e r e .

25 THE JUROR: (By M r . Hodge) LSU- S.

26 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: So w h e n is that?

27 THE JUROR: (By M r . Hodge) Sunday.

28 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: You are graduating.

29 THE JUROR: (By M r . Hodge) Yes.

30 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: C o n g r a t u l a t i o n s .

3 1 T h a t ' s Sunday n i g h t o r Sunday?

32 ' THE JUROR: (By M r . Hodge) A t 2:OO p.m.

 MR. O’CALLAGHAN: Okay. Thank you,

Mr. Hodge. Mr. Golden may h a v e s o m e

questions.

MR. G O L D E N : No q u e s t i o n s .
THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You may

r e t u r n outside. We w i l l c a l l y o u i n s h o r t l y .

( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d

from t h e courtroom.)

MR. O’CALLAGHAN: Your Honor, the

State would respectfully move t o excuse

Mr. Hodge. He indicated that while he would

t r y , h e b e l i e v e s he w o u l d d i s t r a c t e d g i v e n h e

has child s u p p o r t obligations and h e ’ s

s u p p o r t i n g f i v e c h i l d r e n , m a i n t a i n i n g a home

a n d h e d o e s h a v e h i s c o l l e g e g r a d u a t i o n on

Sunday. It w o u l d c o n f l i c t w i t h e i t h e r the

c o n c l u s i o n of g e n e r a l voir d i r e o r t h e

commencement of this case. He also did

indicate he has some slight effect from the

pretrial p u b l i c i t y , and I w i l l defer t o

defense counsel.

MR. GOLDEN: Your Honor., w e w o u l d join

in t h a t motion.

THE COURT: A l l right. Show that cause

is granted jointly. That concludes that

entire group.

( W h e r e u p o n the p r o s p e c t i v e j u r o r w a s e x c u s e d

f r o m the v e n i r e panel.)

MR. O’CALLAGHAN: Yes, Your Honor.

THE C O U R T : ’ W e w i l l s t a r t t o m o r r o w a t

9:30 a.m.

MR. THOMPSON: C o u l d we m a k e a r e c o r d

339
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 73:
I 1 o f the a b s e n c e s from the jury p o o l t o d a y or nri
CY
the p e o p l e t h a t were r e s c h e d u l e d .
@
THE COURT: A l l right. I b e l i e v e there1 ~.,a

4 was one f r o m the panel today who was absent.

MR. T H O M P S O N : I show Marcus Posey, he

w a s from y e s t e r d a y ' s p a n e l . He had indicated

a work h a r d s h i p t o t h e C o u r t t o d a y , a n d the

C o u r t e x c u s e d him.

9 THE COURT: Correct.

10 MR. MCCLATCHEY: That's c o r r e c t .
11 MR. T H O M P S O N : Your Honor, I show

12 C h r i s t y Holmes, s h e was e x c u s e d by t h e C o u r t

13 today. It is m y u n d e r s t a n d i n g t h a t s h e i s an

1 4 a t t o r n e y f o r a mental h e a l t h a g e n c y , a n d s h e

15 had work hardships and she was excused by the

16 Court without objection from either side.

17 THE COURT: S h e is a l s o t h e f i a n c e e ' o f

18 t h e d e f e n s e ' s employee.

19 MR. GOLDEN: T h a t is c o r r e c t .

20 THE COURT: S h e h a s a r e l a t i o n s h i p with

2 1 him and has had lunch with a few of the

22 a t t o r n e y s on the d e f e n s e t e a m . So w i t h o u t I
23 o b j e c t i o n , it was granted.

24 MR. T H O M P S O N : I believe

25 M s . J o a n n S t e w a r t , we m a d e o f r e c o r d e a r l i e r .

26 I j u s t want t o double- check.

27 THE COURT: A l l right.

28 MR. T H O M P S O N : Sophia Bennett was also

29 e x c u s e d by t h e C o u r t w i t h o u t o b j e c t i o n from

30 t h e parties. The Court had indicated that she

3 1 h a d s o m e i s s u e s with u n d e r s t a n d i n g t h e E n g l i s h

32 language. For t h a t r e a s o n , t h e C o u r t h a d

340
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I

1 MR. THOMPSON: Your Honor, I h a d shown

2 Robert Anderson as a b s e n t .

3 THE COURT: Correct. They are

4 attempting to c o n t a c t him.

5 MR. T H O M P S O N : I s h o w Elizabeth Arnold.

6 I showed h e r e x c u s e d w i t h o u t o b j e c t i o n from

7 e i t h e r side based on a special n e e d s r e l a t i v e

8 i n Arkansas. T h a t was c r e a t i n g a h a r d s h i p .

9 THE COURT: Correct. T h e r e were

10 multiple i s s u e s . One i s s o m e o n e w i t h special

11 needs. The C o u r t granted the hardship without

12 o b j e c t i o n by t h e S t a t e o r t h e d e f e n s e .

13 MR. THOMPSON: Your Honor, that's all

14 we s h o w .
15 THE COURT: A n d Don V e a t c h , he used hi:

16 exemption f o r t h e age r e q u i r e m e n t .

17 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: We w o u l d a l s o n o t e

18 f o r t h e r e c o r d t h a t t h e d e f e n d a n t was p r e s e n t

19 a t a l l t i m e s during the proceedings and t h a t

20 h e was never v i s i b l y r e s t r a i n e d i n t h e

21 presence of the jury.

22 THE COURT: So n o t e d . W e w i l l resume

23 tomorrow a t 9:30 a.m.

24 ( w h e r e u p o n t h e p r o c e e d i n g s were c o n c l u d e d . )
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3 STATE O F LOUISIANA

4 PARISH OF CADDO

6 I, V I C K I D. B E G G S , Official Court

rl Reporter for the First Judicial D i s t r i c t

8 Court, in and for Caddo Parish, a t Shreveport,

9 Louisiana:

10 DO H E R E B Y CERTIFY that the foregoing

11 pages, numbered one through 3 4 2 , is a true a n d

12 correct transcript of the proceedings had.

13 DATED THIS 5th day of August, 2 0 0 9 ,

14 A.D., in the City of Shreveport, C a d d o Parish,

1 5 Louisiana.

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