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Fire Pump System for Pressurized Hydrant, Wet Riser and Sprinkler System
Question asked by chong on May 15, 2019
Latest reply on May 21, 2019 by michal.lein 

 Like • 0  Comment • 8

Dear Sir,
I am an NFPA member and my membership # 2715059.

I am working on the design of Fire Pump System for a Power Plant whereby there is a comment from the local AHJ in Malaysia.

Under the NFPA 850, 20, 25, 14 and 13 is there any requirement that the common Fire Pump System (Electrical and Diesel plus Jockey Pump) which is sized with a 15% capacity
and a total water demand which is sized with a 100% standby water capacity that is sufficient for 2 hours or more can be designed to be used for the the following :-

a) Combination of Pressurized Hydrant and Sprinkler System?

b) Combination of Pressurized Hydrant and Hose Reel System?
c) Combination of Wet Riser and Sprinkler System?
d) Combination of Wet Riser and Pressurized Hydrant?

Is there any clauses in the NFPA that this is all allowed or we have to use a separate pump system with a dedicated water tank for Pressurized Hydrant and Sprinkler System and
Wet Riser and Pressurized Hydrant?

Appreciate your confirmation and feedback on the above queries.

Best regards,

Chong Yin Keong

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Last modified on May 15, 2019 4:57 PM

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8 Replies

ben_oregan
May 16, 2019 7:07 AM

It's not unusual for a private fire fighting main to supply all wet systems on a site. I would refer you to NFPA 24 section 1.1.1 scope of the standard is fire service mains
supplying various types of fire protection systems including sprinklers, hydrants, standpipes (which includes hoses).
I don't know why you would design for 15% capacity. Is that a mistake?

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chong
@ ben_oregan on May 16, 2019 9:13 AM

Dear Mr. Benjamin,

Thank you for your reply.

Apologies for the confusion on the 15% capacity as this was meant to read as 15% Safety Factor.

Please see the Fire Water Tanks and Fire Water Pumps as detailed below.

A. Fire Water Tanks

Two (2) raw water I fire water common tanks of [27)m dia. and m height are proposed to be installed. In each tank, nominal capacity of approx. 1,740,000 liters for 2
hour operation for fire water system will be prepared for fire water storage as two (2) x 100% fire water sources. Tank outlet nozzle for other purpose of raw water will
be located above the water level required for the fire water volume in order to prepare the dedicated water for fire fighting purpose. The dedicated volume of fire water
in the raw water tanks will comply with NFPA 850 Clause 6.1.

B. FIRE WATER PUMPS

Based on the maximum fire water demand, the following capacity of fire pumps are selected :

* Main Electrical Motor Driven Duty Pumps

a. Estimated (870) m3/h each @ (10) Bar - 1 No

* Main Diesel Engine Driven Stand-by Pump

b. Estimated (870] m3/hr @ (10) Bar -1No

* Jockey Pump

c. Estimated (9) m3/hr @ (10) Bar - 2Nos

The fire pumps will be in compliance with NFPA 20 requirements. And the diesel oil day tank for Diesel Engine Driven Fire Pump will be sized in compliance with the
NFPA requirement of at least 8 hours operations.
I have designed a common Fire Pump System where it is permitted to have one water tank and one fire pump to provide for all fire fighting systems in the entire facility.

Am I correct to say that as per NFPA 24 section 1.1.1 scope of the standard is fire service mains supplying various types of fire protection systems including sprinklers,
hydrants, standpipes (which includes hoses).

Beside the above NFPA 24 section 1.1.1 clause, can you confirm whether any other NFPA standard also highlight that a common Fire Pump System where it is
permitted to have one water tank and one fire pump to provide for all fire fighting systems in the entire facility.

Appreciate your confirmation on the above.

Best Regards,

Chong Y.K

General Manager

Sentrix Technology Sdn Bhd

No 22, Jalan TP 3/1,

Taman Perindustrian Sime UEP

47620 Subang Jaya

Selangor Darul Ehsan

• : + 603 8081 1618 / + 603 8081 1638

• : + 603 8081 3818

• : 6012 282 9618

• : <mailto: chong@sentrix.com.my> chong@sentrix.com.my

• : SKYPE ID : ieconsult

• Web : <http://www.sentrix.com.my/ > www.sentrix.com.my

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ben_oregan
 @ chong on May 16, 2019 12:10 PM

I see a good article on the subject here:

https://www.csemag.com/articles/supplying-power-for-electric-fire-pumps/

In some circumstances, the NFPA codes and standards require additional reliability which can be achieved by using a generator, or one diesel or electric pump. In
campus type developments it is common to see electric and diesel fire pumps, but this is not required by NFPA standards if there are no high rise buildings on the
campus.

The diesel pump should have 1 gallon of fuel for each horse power of the motor in accordance with NFPA 20. If you have a generator, it should have 8 hours of
fuel.

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nocivus
May 16, 2019 8:26 AM

It is permitted to have one water tank and one fire pump to provide for all fire fighting systems in the entire facility.

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chong
@ nocivus on May 16, 2019 9:20 AM

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your reply to confirm that it is permitted to have one water tank and one fire pump to provide for all fire fighting systems in the entire facility.

Am I correct to say that as per NFPA 24 section 1.1.1 scope of the standard is fire service mains supplying various types of fire protection systems including sprinklers,
hydrants, standpipes (which includes hoses).

Beside the above NFPA 24 section 1.1.1 clause, can you confirm whether any other NFPA standard also highlight that a common Fire Pump System where it is
permitted to have one water tank and one fire pump to provide for all fire fighting systems in the entire facility.

Appreciate your confirmation on the above.

Best Regards,

Chong Y.K

General Manager

Sentrix Technology Sdn Bhd

 No 22, Jalan TP 3/1,

Taman Perindustrian Sime UEP

47620 Subang Jaya

Selangor Darul Ehsan

• : + 603 8081 1618 / + 603 8081 1638

• : + 603 8081 3818

• : 6012 282 9618

• : <mailto: chong@sentrix.com.my> chong@sentrix.com.my

• : SKYPE ID : ieconsult

• Web : <http://www.sentrix.com.my/ > www.sentrix.com.my

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nocivus
@ chong on May 18, 2019 8:59 AM

Yes. Per NFPA 24, the fire service main can supply all system covered in section 1.1.1.

NFPA 20 section 4.10.1 kind of permits one fire pump to have capacity to supply the most demanding system. NFPA 20 section 5.6.2 might require a backup pump
for zones beyond the fire department's pumping capability. NFPA 20 section 5.6.1.1 do requires 2 tanks if a very tall building has it's own water supply. I don't
remember any other NFPA standards that have requirements for the amount of pumps or amount of water tanks.

1 person found this helpful

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michal.lein
May 21, 2019 11:30 PM

Sir,

about jockey pump pressure. If it will be less than shut-off pressure of electric or diesel pump (whichever is larger)
it will result with water hammer during each test.
also if jockey pump keeps 10 bar, what is your activation sequence.
Typicaly it should look like this:

I assume your shutt-off pressure for diesel is 12bar, and your activation should look like this:

- jockey pump stop - 12,0 bar

- jockey pump start - 11,3 bar
- fire pump 1 start - 10,6 bar
- fire pump 2 start - 9,9 bar
 at this moment the jockey pumps have too low disposable pressure.
what is the purpose of second jockey?

* Jockey Pump

c. Estimated (9) m3/hr @ (10) Bar - 2Nos

if an insurance company is already chosen, ask if they have any additional requirements for the amount of fire pumps and water tanks.

Best regards,
Michał Lein

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michal.lein
@ michal.lein on May 21, 2019 11:41 PM

chong also capacity of jockeys 9 m3/hr seems to be too large.

9 m3 / h equals 150 l / min, and if you have K80 or K115 or K160 sprinklers at your system, you will have a situation in which you extinguish a fire using a jockey pump
only, and you want to avoid it.

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