1 Bhagavad-gītā 3.

27 at Town Hall
Melbourne, June 27, 1974
Audio for this lecture: https://prabhupadavani.org/transcriptions/740627bgmel/
Prabhupada Radio: https://prabhupadaradio.com

Prabhupāda: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate

vāsudevāya. [devotees repeat]
prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
[Bg. 3.27]
Kṛṣṇa says that all these living entities... We are all living entities. Actually, every one of
us is spirit soul, living entities. It does not matter whether I am a human being or other
than human being---lower animal, birds, beasts, trees or higher celestial beings. There
are many varieties of life, 8,400,000. Nine... Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi [Padma Purāṇa]. In the
water there are living entities of 900,000 varieties. We simply know that there are some
fishes and crocodiles or sharks in the water, but śāstra, Vedic śāstras, they give definite
information, how many forms and varieties of life are there within the water = 900,000.
How many we have seen? Our scientist, our botanist, how many they have seen?
So actually you cannot have perfect knowledge by the experimental method. Now, if I
say... I don't say, but the śāstra says there are 900,000 forms of aquatics. So you
cannot say no, because you have no experience. You have no experience. But from
the śāstra, Vedic literature, we get this information, Padma Purāṇa. We are not
speaking unauthorizedly. The śāstras are accepted by the ācāryas, the great teachers.
And we get knowledge from the śāstra. I may be imperfect, but I get knowledge from the
perfect source. That is perfect knowledge.
Just like a child may ask his father that "What is this?" because he is astonished that
the sound is very loud. So the child may not know, so inquires from the father, "Father,
what is this?" So father says, "My dear child, this is microphone. And when you speak
through this machine, your sound becomes louder." So the child takes the knowledge
from the father, and if he repeats or he understands firmly, "My father has said. It is
perfectly right," then his knowledge is perfect. The child may be imperfect, but because
he receives the knowledge from the authority, father, his knowledge is perfect.
So our Vedic process is like that. We do not make any research. It is not possible to
come to the right knowledge by so-called research, because our senses are imperfect.
Just like we see through the telescope and we come under certain conclusion, but the
fact is that I am the same person seeing through the telescope, and telescope is also
manufactured by me or by you. So machine is imperfect, and my seeing power is also
imperfect. Then how you can have perfect knowledge? The machine is created by a
person who has got imperfect knowledge, and the seer is also a person; he is also
imperfect. The imperfect person is seeing through the imperfect machine. Then how we
can conclude perfect knowledge? This is not possible.
Therefore the method is, according to the Vedic knowledge, that if you want perfect
knowledge, then you should approach the perfect person. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum
eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. This is the Vedic injunction. If you want perfect
knowledge, then you must approach a perfect person, guru. Now, at the present
moment, there are so many gurus. How we will understand who is perfect? That is also
another problem. So that perfection is... That I have already explained, that the child
who has heard from his father that "This is microphone," and if he speaks that "This is
microphone," then his knowledge is perfect. The child is not perfect, but because he has
heard from the perfect authority, what he is speaking, although he is child, that is
perfect. Similarly, this guru means who has heard from the perfect person. Therefore his
knowledge is perfect, because he has heard. This is called paramparā system, or
disciplic succession.
In this Bhagavad-gītā you will find in the Fourth Chapter Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā-
prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Paramparā. Kṛṣṇa is the original person,
perfect, and He says,
imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
proktavān aham avyayam
vivasvān manave prāha
manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
[Bg. 4.1]
evaṁ paramparā-prāptam
imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ
sa kāleneha...
 yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa
[Bg. 4.2]
Kṛṣṇa is explaining to Arjuna. You will find these statement in the Fourth Chapter
of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa said that "This perfect knowledge of yoga system as I am
explaining in this..." Now it is known, Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā means the...,
generally in this Western world they say, "Song of God." So Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by
the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So He said that "This is not a new literature.
Millions of years ago I spoke about this yoga system, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
proktavān... [Bg. 4.1]. Proktavān means, "I said." Whom? Vivasvān. Vivasvān is the
name of the sun-god, or the president of the sun planet. Just like here in this planet we
have got presidents in each country. So now there are so many presidents. Formerly,
even on this planet there was one president. They are trying to be united. The United
Nation Organization, they want to unite. For the last twenty years the United Nations are
trying to unite, but the result is we are disunited. Instead of making one flag, the flags
are increasing every year = "This is Pakistan, this is Hindustan, this is this, this is that,
this is..." They are not united. How they can be united? They cannot be united,
because prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27], everyone is under
the control of the material nature, full control.
So, so long we are in the material world, controlled by the external, material energy,
there is no possibility of unity. That is not possible. Because, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ. In prakṛti, material nature, there are three different qualities =
goodness, passion and ignorance. So the all the varieties of life, they are under the
control of the material nature, and therefore you see varieties of life. Varieties. There
are three qualities. You multiply three into three, it becomes nine. And if you multiply
nine into nine, you become..., you see eighty-one. So therefore all these varieties of life,
they are being controlled, because... Not controlled. He accepts to be
controlled. Prakṛti does not want..., nature does not want to control you.
Just like police force. Police force is not meant for controlling you. But when you accept
to be controlled by police, when you become a criminal, then police force controls you,
not that police force is made by the government unnecessarily to control you. No. He's
to help you. Government has arranged policeman in every crossing. They are
wandering in the street. They are meant for helping you. They are not meant for
controlling you. But when you agree to be controlled by the police, then it will control
you. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Then you become
under the police control, if you become criminal. And what is that criminality? The
criminality is that kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā [Prema-vivarta]. Kṛṣṇa is the original
enjoyer, God. When I speak "Kṛṣṇa," it means God. God has got many names
according to different religious system. But the real name is Kristo. And you will be glad
to understand that this Kristo, it is a Greek word, and it is a perverted pronunciation
of Kṛṣṇa, this Greek word. The meaning of Kristo in Sanskrit dictionary and the Greek
dictionary always the same, about this word. And from this Kristo the word has got
Christo, or Christ. So even in Christian world the God's name is there---Jesus the Christ,
or Jesus the son of Kristo, or Kṛṣṇa.
So Lord Jesus Christ said, "My Lord, hallowed be Thy name." He wants to glorify the
name of the Lord. And some people says that there is no name of God. How? If Lord
Jesus Christ says "Hallowed be Thy name," there must be name. The name is there,
but he did not pronounce it, because the people at that time will not be able to
understand, or maybe some reason, but he says there is name. So we are making this
propaganda, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, the "Hallowed be Thy name. My Lord
Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead, let Your holy name be glorified." This is our
movement.
It is not a sectarian... It is very scientific movement. Scientific movement because at the
present moment we are all godless, forgotten what is God, and what to speak of His
name. They do not believe in God, and what to speak of His name, fame, His place, His
activities, His form, His quality. How we can know? There is no educational system
about the science of God. This movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is teaching
the science of God. And if you accept the name of the God, name of God, Kṛṣṇa---this
is also affirmed in other system also---then you will be able to associate with God
immediately. Because God is Absolute. Absolute means there is no difference.
Just like in the relative world... This is relative world. Material world means the relative
world. Relative world means the son. As soon as I say "the son," there must be a father.
As soon as I say "friend," there must be another man, friend. As soon as I say "water,"
there must be something as water. But in the Absolute world, the name water and the
water is the same. This is called Absolute, no different separation. So in the kingdom of
God, the God is God and His son is also God. There the everything---there is no
difference between the name and the substance. Here in this material world the name
and the substance, different. Just like if I am thirsty, I want water. So the water must
come to me. If I simply chant, "Water, water, water," that will not be effective, because it
is relative world. But in the transcendental world, Kṛṣṇa is the name of God and it is God
also. So by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you are directly in contact with God. This is the
meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa. Directly in contact.
Now, if we imitate, that "These boys and girls are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is a name
only. So let me chant... Instead of Kṛṣṇa, let me chant John," but that chanting will not
help you, because you cannot chant more than three, four times or ten times, that's all.
But this is the proof. And this Hare Kṛṣṇa, this chanting, if you ask these boys and girls,
they can chant continually for twenty-four hours in ecstasy, continually, without any
stoppage. That is spiritual name. You cannot take any other name and chant and enjoy
like that. So it is practical experience. I am touring all over the world, three times in a
year, and because this chanting is Absolute, everyone is joining---Europe, America,
Africa, Canada, Japan, China, everywhere. Nobody says that "This is a word from India.
Why shall I chant the Indian name?" No. It is God's name. God is neither Indian nor
American nor otherwise, neither Christian nor Hindu nor Muslim. God is God.
So we are at the present moment rotting in this material world. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-
sthaḥ. That is also mentioned in the Thirteenth Chapter. It is said that puruṣaḥ prakṛti-
sthaḥ. Where is that verse? [aside:] I told you to... Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-sthaḥ? Puruṣaḥ
prakṛti-stho hi. Yes.
 puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi
bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān
kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya
sad-asad-yoni-janmasu
[Bg. 13.22]
Puruṣa. Puruṣa means the enjoyer. Every one of us sitting in this hall, we have got
different mentality to enjoy differently---different dress, different mentality, different
opinion---because every one of us, we are individual. So this individuality is both in
spiritual world and the material world. But in the material world our individuality is
different on account of associating or infecting different qualities of the material nature.
Just like there are different types of patients in the hospital. Why? Because each and
every one of them is infected by different types of germs of disease.
Here it is explained, puruṣa, the living entity, prakṛti-stha, being in this material world.
Prakṛti means this material world. We do not belong to this material world. Just like a
person in the prison house, he is a citizen, but when he goes into the prison house, he
has got different sense, different, I mean, punishment, different dress. They are also
dressed differently. So similarly, we are all criminals. Criminals. What is that criminality?
Because we have forgotten God. This is criminality. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā
kare [Prema-vivarta].
You will find in this practical experience. Suppose a boy is very rich man's son. But still,
he thinks, "Why shall I live under the rules and regulation of my father? Let me go out. I
shall enjoy life freely." Freely..., what freedom? You are already rich man's son. You can
enjoy the property of your very, very rich, powerful father, and what independence you
will enjoy? This is criminality. This is criminality. We are sons of God, part and parcels of
God, and God means almighty. So we have got almighty father, and leaving His place, I
have come to this material world to enjoy independently. That is criminality. And we are
suffering. That is explained here = prakṛti-stha, "Being placed in this material
world," puruṣa, bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān, "he is enjoying, but the enjoying the quality of
the modes of material nature."
Just like a tiger; he is also enjoying. He is thinking, "I am very strong. I have got so
power, so much jaws and nails. I can jump over any animal and immediately kill him."
He is pleased in that position. But you know the tiger or the lion, they are so unfortunate
that they do not get daily food, in spite of becoming so strong. Because prakṛti-jān
guṇān, he is under the influence of the material nature. He... The tiger may be very
powerful, but he remains always hungry. Very powerful. Because the other animals,
they know that in that corner of the forest there is tiger, nobody goes there. Where he
can get food? Hardly chance. By chance he gets one animal and jumps over it. This is
called prakṛti-jān guṇān. He thought, "By becoming tiger I shall be very much proud of
enjoying," but prakṛti says, "No, sir, you cannot get even daily food. That is not
possible." Therefore, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarva... [Bg. 3.27]. Here the
so-called tiger, so-called big men... Just like in America, the president is a big man. But
now he is put into such a condition that he is full of anxiety. At any moment he may be
kicked out. This is the position. You cannot be happy either as President Nixon or tiger
or cats and dogs or human being or Lord Brahmā. That is not possible. That is not
possible. You must be full of anxieties, because this is unnatural life.
To understand that "I am this body," this is foolishness. I am not this body. I am the soul
within this body. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Second Chapter = dehino
'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Dehī, the proprietor of the body. Just like you are the
proprietor of your shirt and coat. You are not shirt and coat; you are the proprietor of the
shirt and coat. You are dressed with shirt and coat in different colors and different
shape. Similarly, the living entity---it does not matter whether he is a man or animal---he
is part and parcel of God, but he desired certain dress or certain body,
so prakṛti, nature, has given him. So this is going on. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi [Bg. 13.22].
Puruṣa means... He is not enjoyer, but he is thinking enjoyer. He is not enjoyer. At any
moment his so-called enjoyment will be finished. Just like in the Western world they are
thinking that "We are enjoying life." Of course, enjoying life in his consideration. But how
long, sir, you will enjoy this life? You have got very nice car or very nice building, and
you are enjoying as Australian, as American. That's all right. But how long you shall
remain American and Australian? That question does not come to the dull brain,
because he does not know that he is eternal. And this is temporary dress. I... Somehow
or other, I wanted this, and prakṛti, nature, has given me. But nature has not given me
the right to remain as American, Australian, Indian. No. That is not possible. You
wanted. You enjoyed this life for a certain time, and then again you create your desire.
"Now I am very powerful, very happy. Let me love dog instead of God"---that means you
are preparing your next life as dog, because it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that at the
time of death the mentality which you have created throughout the whole life, that will
carry you to other body, gross body. It is very scientific. Anta-kāle tu māṁ smaran.
So if you train up... You have got this facility of life, comfortable life. Do not misuse it for
becoming next life a dog. Utilize it to become next life God. That is success. You have
got advanced intelligence, but this intelligence is given to you for understanding God
and your position that by forgetting God you are in this material world, and in this
material world you are changing one body to another---sometimes American body,
sometimes demigod's body, sometimes celestial body, sometimes dog's body, cat's
body, tiger's body. This science is unknown.
But this is the science. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra [Bg.
3.27]. We have got this body, that body, this body, under the direction of
the prakṛti, material nature. So therefore intelligence is that "If I am eternal..." Na
hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. You are not dying. Hanyamāne śarīre. That you
can experience practically, daily. How is that? When you sleep at night, then you dream,
means subtle body. So these activities of this gross body stop. You again work in the
subtle body. You dream that you have gone to somewhere or in the forest or
somewhere, somewhere, somewhere. But you forget that "My real body is lying in this
bed." You do not remember. This is practical. So I change this, my self. I am soul. I
change from this gross body lying on bed in a very nice apartment, skyscraper building,
but I have gone to the forest, and I am affronting a big tiger and I'm crying. In this bed I
am crying. The friends say, "Why you are crying?" "Tiger, tiger, tiger." Where is tiger?
This is called subtle body. So you are changing daily at night from this gross body to the
subtle body. And again, the dream is over, from the subtle body, again gross body. This,
every one of us has got this experience.
Therefore I am the enjoyer, puruṣa. I am changing simply body, this way or that way.
This is my position. So one who is intelligent, that "I change body and different bodies. I
am eternal, so what is my eternal business?" this is athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is called
inquiry of the spiritual life. This is very simple thing, that "I am simply changing body.
Then what is my real position?" This is intelligent. When a man comes to this position or
this platform, to inquire, "Actually what I am?" that is beginning of human life. Otherwise,
it is animal life. The animal also thinks, "I am dog," "I am tiger," "I am king," or similarly,
if I think, "I am Mr. Such-and-such," "I am president," "I am this or that," you are none of
these, sir. These are all designation, for the temporary, for a certain period, ten years,
five years, fifty years, utmost hundred years, then finished. But you are eternal.
So here it is said, puruṣa, "I am puruṣa. I am enjoying." So puruṣa prakṛti-sthaḥ. So long
he is in this material body, he bhuṅkte. Bhuṅkte means enjoys. Not enjoyment. We think
we are enjoying, but we are suffering actually. And because we cannot understand what
is suffering... Suffering there is. Sometimes we come to understand. But we are
accepting this suffering as enjoying. A man is working very hard, very hard, whole day.
He is... This is not enjoyment. You have got a car, but you are running at seventy miles'
speed, going to your business, and there you are earning hundred and thousands of
dollars. So you are thinking that you are enjoying. But this labor is suffering---you forget.
And in order to forget this suffering, then I take to wine, take to this, take to that, to
forget the suffering.
So actually we are suffering, but we are accepting it as enjoying. This is called illusion.
So whatever we are doing in certain type of body in this material world, that is suffering.
That is not enjoying. Because why you are placed? Because I wanted to enjoy life like
that. So puruṣa prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān [Bg. 13.22]. And this profit is
nothing but acceptance of the quality of material nature. And that is very practical. We
can understand. Just like we are getting... I get, say, fifty thousand dollar in a check. So
I think that "I have got fifty thousand dollars." But what is this fifty thousand dollar? It is a
piece of paper. You see? This is called illusion. In this way you study your life, you will
see. If you are sober, if you are actually thoughtful, you will find that "This is not my life.
This is not my life. But I am falsely thinking that I am enjoying life." Therefore frustration.
Next stage is frustration. Everyone, we are frustrated because we are in this material
world.
That, Prahlāda Mahārāja said, a great devotee, that... His father asked him, "My dear
boy, what best thing you have learned?" He said, "My dear father..." He did not say
"father." His father was first-class materialist. So he addressed him, "the best of the
demons." Because anyone who is very much sensuous, very much attached to sense
gratification, they are called demon. And those persons who do not indulge in sense
gratification but utilize this body or this life for God realization, Kṛṣṇa realization, they
are called gods. There are two classes of men = demon and god. Those who are
engaged in God consciousness, they are not God, but godly. And those who are not...
Because this human life is meant for this purpose. Forgetting our father, forgetting our
God, we are criminal within this material world. Therefore our only business is how to
get out of this prison house and go back to home, back to Godhead. So this Kṛṣṇa
consciousness movement is trying to liberate these foolish persons who are entangled
in this material world and changing one body after another, sometimes very happy and
sometimes very distressed. This is going on.
Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām: "My dear
father, or the best of the demons, you are asking me, so I say I have learned this. What
is that? That these people who are always full of anxiety," asad-grahāt, "because they
have accepted this material world," tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā
samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5], "these persons, either in human being or
animal or bird and beasts---full of anxieties." If you bring one bird... He is free. You give
some grains, he will come to eat, but he will look like this = "Nobody is coming to kill me.
Nobody coming to kill me." Similarly, our position is... Even President Nixon, he is also
full of anxieties = "When I shall be dethroned? When I shall be dethroned? Let me take
protection. Let me take..." Anyone, beginning from Lord Brahmā down to the small ant.
You... There is ant is going. You stop it by your finger, he will struggle = "Why you are
stopping? Why you are stopping, stopping?" This is the way. You will see the ants.
When there is water, they carry their eggs on the head and they go on the wall, up.
They have also got the same feeling, affection and anxiety, everything. And the human
being or the best human being is Lord Brahmā in the topmost planet, whose life is
millions and millions of years, he is also full of anxiety.
So Prahlāda Mahārāja said rightly that "My dear best of the demons, so far I have
learned that these living entities in different grades of life," sadā samudvigna-
dhiyām, "always full of anxiety." Why? Asad-grahāt: "Because he has accepted this
material body, therefore he must be full of anxiety." Then what is the remedy?
Now, hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta [SB 7.5.5]
= "He should give up this material encagement, material home and material thing. He
should approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead in Vṛndāvana or forest and
surrender unto Him." That is the only way.
So if you want to be free of anxieties... Nobody can say that "I am already free of
anxiety" unless he is a madman. A madman will say, "I have no anxiety." But no sane
man will say that "I am free of anxiety." This is material life. So if you want to become
free of anxieties, then you come to the spiritual life. That is the only remedy. Harim
āśrayeta. Accept the lotus feet of God. That is the mission of God. God comes Himself.
God sends His son or devotee or servant. The same thing. Then religion may be
different. That is not very, I mean, important thing. Anyone who has preached... The
religious leaders all over the world... Take Lord Jesus Christ or Kṛṣṇa or Muhammad or
Lord Buddha. Nobody has said that "You will be happy in this material world." Nobody
has said. "You continue this manufacturing of factories, and you will be happy." Has
anybody said? No. "Back to home, back to Godhead. Then you will be happy." This is
Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, back to home, back to Godhead.
We have go speak many things. We have got books. So try to understand and prepare
yourself next life to go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the business of human
life. All other business are simply useless waste of time.
Thank you very much.
Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Prabhupāda. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...but the spirit is there. Just like if anyone, relative, dies, father dies---
take for instance---he is crying, "My father is gone. My father is gone." "But where your
father has gone? Your father is here, sleeping." "No, no, he is gone." "But did you see
how he has gone? Have you got the eyes, how he has gone? But you don't see. You
always saw this material body, flesh." So as the spirit soul is not flesh, but you can
understand that spirit soul has gone.
So in our present experience we see this flesh, or mental concoction. But spiritual
understanding is different. That you have to do when you are spiritualized. Therefore it
is said, ataḥ śri-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya
17.136]. Indriya means senses. You cannot understand God by your present senses, or
godly..., kingdom of God. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ: "But if
you engage your service, beginning with the tongue, then God reveals." "God reveals"
means He reveals His kingdom, He Himself. That...
These boys are after God. It is not that I have shown him God, but they are realizing,
understanding. Otherwise they are not so fool they'll waste time. They are
understanding. But it is not a subject matter to be seen like this. Neither you have got
the eyes to see, neither God or His kingdom is visible in that way. It is to be realized.
Revelation. That is called revelation. But if you engage yourself in the service of the
Lord, everything will be revealed to you. This is the process.
Guest (1): In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, what are your thoughts of the past or the future?
Devotee: [explaining] In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is there any thought of the past or the
future?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee: [to guest] Would you like to be more specific about that question?
Guest (1): Is there any thought about the past or the future?
Madhudviṣa: The question is, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you become Kṛṣṇa conscious,
can you remember your past or see into the future?
Prabhupāda: No, we understand past, future, everything, present. That is spiritual
consciousness. Yes. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, "I know past, present and future," similarly,
when you also become pure, purified in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you'll also know past,
present and future.
Guest (2): [indistinct]
Madhudviṣa: The gentleman is asking about the authenticity of Moses.
Prabhupāda: Moses.
Madhudviṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They are representative of God. That's nice.
Madhudviṣa: Any other question?
Guest (3): How strong is the power of Kṛṣṇa?
Madhudviṣa: How strong is the power of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: [laughter] No, that can be explained. Just like there is Atlantic Ocean and
Pacific Ocean, and you are a drop of it, that's all. The quality is the same, a drop of
Atlantic or Pacific Ocean and the ocean. If you taste the drop, a small drop, it is salty,
you can understand that the ocean is also salty. But the containing..., the contents of
salt, that is very small, and the contents of salt in the ocean, that is very big. That you
cannot imagine. It is like that. God is like you and me, a person. But He is Pacific
Ocean; we are drop. That's all. Yes? What is your question? This gentleman, here.
Guest (4): What's your doctrine? What's your doctrine of this...
Prabhupāda: Doctrine?
Madhudviṣa: He wants to know what the doctrine of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or
God. You being separated, I have already explained, you are suffering in this material
world. So you back to your father, go back to your father and be happy. That's all.
Guest (4): [indistinct]
Devotee: [to guest] You're saying that God is spirit, we are spirit, and... What follows
from that?
Guest (4): [indistinct] [break]
Prabhupāda: ...if you love God. And because we are missing God, we are loving this
thing, that thing, that thing, that thing, that thing, and frustration. That very love which is
reserved for God, we are applying it in this material world = "I love my country. I love my
society. I love my family. I love my dog. I love my... I love." But I am missing whom to
love. That is the point. I am placing my love in so many things, and I am becoming
frustrated. So when we understand the love is meant for God, that is our perfection of
life. And if you love God, then you love everything. That is perfect love. Without loving
God...
Just like you are the son of your father. So when you love your father, naturally you love
your brothers also, because you know, "My father will be pleased." So this is love. That
universal love can be possible when you actually love God. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. In
material platform that is not possible. But a devotee, a pure lover of God, he loves
everyone. Just like we are. Because we have tried to love God, therefore we are
wandering, touring all over the world, and the same message, "Please try to love God."
We have no other message, because we have understood to some extent that without
love of God, they are suffering. So they will be happy when they begins to love God.
This is our mission.
Devotee (1): In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it says that Kṛṣṇa does not want us to come to
this world, become under the external energy. So why are we here?
Madhudviṣa: [explaining] The question was that in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is a
scripture that we study, it says that Kṛṣṇa did not want us to come to this world. The
question is, if Kṛṣṇa did not want, why are we here?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You forced Kṛṣṇa to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child
forces the father. Father says, "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there." But he
insists, "Father, I must go. I must go." "All right, you go at your risk." That's all. And you
suffer. What can be done? Because you are son of God---God has got independence,
full independence, almighty---therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You
have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If
you persist, that "I must go and enjoy independently," so God says, "All right, you can
go." This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist,
God sanctions. And you come and enjoy. Beginning from Lord Brahmā down to the
worms in the stool, gradually, according to your work, according to your desire, you
manufacture your different types of body and enjoy and suffer. That's all. That is
explained. Prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. And as soon as you..., entangled in
different types of punishment, not enjoyment but punishment.
So in this way, being punished in different types of life, when we come to the sense...
That sense can come in human form of life. When we understand that "I have traveled
through..., in..., transmigrated from many species of life, but every life I can see, not that
I have forgotten." Even if I have forgotten, I can see the suffering of the cats, dogs, tiger,
man, [indistinct] and everyone. So I had all these lives in the past. Evolutionary process,
I have come to this human. So I suffered all these things. So when the question comes,
"Why shall I suffer?" then the inquiry---this is called, Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma
jijñāsā---the inquiry of God begins. That is human life. Yes.
Guest (5): Prabhupāda, Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that when there is
decline of true religion...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (5): ...and when evil increases in the world, that He manifests Himself in a body,
a human body, and comes to earth to rescue the human beings from their illusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (5): Now, these conditions exist today. Is He here in the human form, or is He
still to come?
Prabhupāda: Yes, God has already come.
Guest (5): In what form?
Prabhupāda: In the form of name, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (5): No, He said He manifests in a human form.
Prabhupāda: God has human form, and God is everything. So if He comes in the form
of sound, where is your objection? But God is everything. He can come as a human
being or He can come in the form of sound also. Because what is this human being?
You are seeing a human being, this flesh. That is combination of matter, combination of
matter---earth, water, fire, air, ether. This is combination. What you are seeing? Your
eyes are also the combination. But the sound is ether. So if you accept earth as the
form, where is your objection to accept ether? Because they are all material.
Guest (5): There are two objections. One is that He says, "I manifest in a human body,"
in a human body, such as we have here, and also...
Prabhupāda: So that requires little intelligence, that anyone who is preaching the holy
name of God, he is also God. Anyone who preaches the glories of God, he is also God.
Guest (5): Are you God?
Prabhupāda: I am servant of God.
Guest (5): But you're preaching the holy name of God?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my business.
Guest (5): But then, by your own words, you are God.
Prabhupāda: But that does not mean I am God, but I am equal to God. Or at least, you
should see like that. That is explained. A guru... That is explained,
sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair
uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ
kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya
vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam
Guru's position is like this. What is that? Sākṣād-dhari. He is God. Sākṣād-dhari. How
he is Hari, God? No, samasta-śāstraiḥ: "In all revealed scriptures it is explained that
'Guru, the servant of God, the son of God, the preacher, he is God.' " Sākṣād-
dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ: "It is said." Tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ: "Those who
are intelligent, they accept like that." Then next line says kintu. Why he is God? Kintu
prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya: "He is God because He is very, very dear to God." So as I
said, in the absolute word, God and a person very dear to God, he is also God. But he
does not think that he is God. He knows that he is servant of God. It requires little
intelligence, spiritual intelligence, the Absolute, how the servant of God and God is the
same. [break] Yes.
Devotee: The lady has a question. This lady here?
Lady guest (6): Do you believe in the Holy Bible?
Madhudviṣa: She wants to know if we believe in the Holy Bible.
Prabhupāda: Why not? [laughter] It is holy, God's message. Why shall I not believe?
Madhudviṣa: Yes?
Devotee (2): How can we develop enthusiasm for Kṛṣṇa's service in Kṛṣṇa
consciousness? Obviously in the beginning we are not very enthusiastic for... What is
the condition for such individual?
Madhudviṣa: He wants to know how in the beginning, when we are starting to engage
in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or devotional service to God, can you develop enthusiasm and
sincerity.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The thing is that if you want to become a drunkard, you mix with the
people who drinks. Then you drink little, little, little. Then you become a big drunkard.
Similarly, if you have got little sense that "I shall understand what is God," this very
much qualification, if anyone only wants sincerely that "I will understand what is God,"
then your drinking business begins immediately. [break]
Then if you continue, then as the drunkard becomes big drunkard, you become a big
devotee. The beginning is that you must be little anxious that "How I can understand
God?" This is the qualification. That's all. And if you are serious, then God is within you,
He will give you intelligence. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā = teṣāṁ
nityābhiyuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakaṁ buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam [Bg. 10.10].
When God sees that you are sincere, He is within you, He will dictate, "You do like this,
you do like this," and you will make advance.
Guest (7): There's an article in the paper that you say the next life we can be an animal.
How can I [indistinct]? How come?
Madhudviṣa: He is commenting about the newspaper article. [laughter]
Prabhupāda: The animal did not understand anything. [laughter and applause]
Because he is animal, he is thinking like that. Everyone thinks others like him. That is
the nature. Ātmavat manyate jagat.
He... There is a story, you will hear it, that one gentleman, he was hard of hearing, hard
of hearing. So he is calling his wife, "Mrs. Such-and-such, Mrs. Such..." She is replying,
"Yes, I am coming." But he is hard of hearing. He is thinking that "My wife is hard of
hearing." She is replying, "Yes, I am coming," but this rascal is hard of hearing, so he is
thinking, "My wife..., that is my wife's fault. She is hard of hearing." He cannot hear, and
he is thinking that "My wife is hard of hearing." This is the example. A man thinks others
like himself.
Guest (8): Is Kṛṣṇa a personal God?
Prabhupāda: Yes, God is person, like you and me. You can go and talk with Him, be
qualified for that pur... Nitya nitya... This is Vedic injunction. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś
cetanānām [Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13]. God is eternal among all other eternals. We are all
eternal, and God is the chief eternal. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. We are also
cognizant, and God is also cognizant. The difference is that I am cognizant with a
limited space, and God is cognizant throughout the whole universe. But He is also
cognizant. He is also person. I am also person. What is the difference? Eko bahūnāṁ
yo vidadhāti kāmān. That one maintains all these innumerable living entities. Therefore
in the Bible you go and ask God, "Give us our daily bread." He is maintaining. That is
the difference between God and ourself. We are maintained and God is the maintainer.
We are predominated and God is the predominator. That is the difference. Otherwise
He is a person, we are also persons. He is eternal, we are eternal. He is cognizant, we
are cognizant.
And the all the desires and propensities what God has got, we have also got. God has
got this propensity to love Rādhārāṇī. We have got also the same propensity to love
another young girl or young boy. So originally it is there. Therefore in the Vedānta-
sūtra it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. God means from whom everything has
come. So if there is a question of love, the propensity, a man loving a woman and
woman loving a man, that is in God. It must be there. Otherwise wherefrom it has
come?
But that is pure, and here it is impure on account of this material contamination. The
thing is there, but it is contaminated. Therefore you feel frustration. So intelligence is the
"Why shall I remain in this contaminated position? I shall go to the pure platform." That
is God consciousness.
Guest (9): I have a question. Why hasn't anybody seen Kṛṣṇa's universal form before
He showed it to Arjuna?
Devotee: [explaining] Why hasn't anyone seen Kṛṣṇa's universal form before He
showed it to Arjuna?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee: Why has no one seen... In Bhagavad-gītā it says that no one had seen...
Kṛṣṇa says that "No one before you have seen My universal form." Why is that, Śrīla
Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: You become like Arjuna, you will see. First of all you become like Arjuna,
friend of Kṛṣṇa. Then you will see. Do you think you are as good as Arjuna? Kṛṣṇa says
Arjuna, addressing, that "I am instructing to you, My dear Arjuna, because you are My
dear friend. And you are very great devotee." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyam etad
uttamam [Bg. 4.3]. "I am speaking to you this Bhagavad-gītā because you are qualified."
What is that qualification? "Because you are My devotee and very intimate friend" So
you become also intimate friend and devotee, you will understand everything. That is
our request. If Arjuna could become a friend and devotee, you can also become. Why
you are losing this opportunity? That is our propaganda. You also become a friend, a
devotee, and be happy and see Kṛṣṇa as He is. That is our program. It is not limited to
Arjuna. It is meant for everyone. When Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām
ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], He does not say only to Arjuna; he is simply symbolic
representation. He says everyone. So let us take this opportunity and become like
Arjuna. That is perfection of life.
I think now we should chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Please join. [end]