sure, I can perform and I'm confident in it, but I'm less confident in my writing. And now itis all I do. BALDONADO: Well, was it because you didn't see other writers, you know, you didn't sort of see that out there, writers like you? RUFFIN: Absolutely. Because you would hear about friends that made it into television and started to write full time. And none of them were women. And zero of them were of any color. So I just never thought I could do that. BALDONADO: Also, is your show the only late night show without any straight white guy writers on it? RUFFIN: (Laughter) For now. We're going to have to end up with one. Those guys are everywhere. (LAUGHTER) BALDONADO: My gue: “Late Night With Seth Meyers." Now she's hosting her own late night program, "The is comedian Amber Ruffin. She's a writer and performer for Amber Ruffin Show," which is on NBC's streaming service, Peacock. More after a break. This is FRESH AIR. (SOUNDBITE OF THE A PLUS' "THE BEAUTIFUL ONES") BALDONADO: This is FRESH AIR. My guest is comedian Amber Ruffin, who has been a writer and performer for "Late Night With Seth Meyers" since 2014. She's now hosting her own late night show called "The Amber Ruffin Show." And you can find it on the NBC streaming service Peacock. She also has a book coming out in January that she co-wrote with her sister, Lacey Lamar. It's called "You'll Never Believe What Happened To Lacey: Crazy Stories About Racism." Now, you grew up in Omaha, Neb., the youngest of... RUFFIN: Woo.BALDONADO: (Laughter) The youngest of five kids. Can you describe where you grew up? RUFFIN: I would say we were 50/50 black/white, and it was this type of place where everyone has a huge backyard. So then you would just go through everyone's backyards to your friend's house, like, eight houses down the road, and no one cared that there were strange children running through their backyards (laughter). And, like, it would be, like, a normal house, normal house - like, my parents live in a normal house - like, normal house, like, three-bed, two-bathroom regular. But then there'd be, like, a nice house with a pool a couple houses down, so then one of those super great houses was our neighbor. And me and my little friend would always just walk into their garage and get a soda pop and go hang out in their backyard and drink it. And no one cared. They'd be like, hey, sweethearts. No one cared. It was the best. It was the most charmed little childhood a person could have. BALDONADO: Now, you recently wrote a book with your sister. It's called "You'll Never Believe What Happened To Lacey.” Why did you and Lacey Lamar, your sister, decide to write the book together? RUFFIN: So Lacey and I both grew up in Omaha, Neb. She is still there. [am in New York. And I've spent the past, you know, almost 20 years living all over the place and having these very liberal experiences, whereas Lacey has stayed in Omaha and had very racist experiences. And you know how when you're a Black woman at work or a woman at work, you have to write down when people say crazy things to you? Because there is this thing that happens where sometimes someone says something crazy to you and then they say a racist thing to you because they are using you as a punching bag because they are angry, and lots of times, that can get out of control. And then they'll go to your boss and be like, you'll never believe what this person said and blah, blah, blah and insubordination. And it's themselves. But they've dragged you in because you're the closest punching bag just them having a whole bunch of feelings by because you are a Black woman. That happens all of the time to minorities and women all over the place. So because when you're one of them, you keep a log of when these things happen just so you know when and where and what you can expect and so you can recognize a pattern and keep your coworkers safe. There's all kinds of reasons todo this. So because of that, Lacey ended up with books and books and books of these incidents. BALDONADO: And it is just the funny stories. There's probably many other books, like the Graver storie: RUFFIN: Yeah. BALDONADO: But can you give an example of - one of your favorite examples from the book? RUFFIN: There's a story where Lacey once had Black history checks. And, you know, it would be, like, Malcolm X, you know, on your check and Martin Luther King on your check. So she hands her check over to the lady. And the lady goes, oh, I didn't know you could get checks with your own picture on them. And Lacey goes, that's not me. ‘That's Harriet Tubman. BALDONADO: (Laughter). RUFFIN: It was a picture of Harriet Tubman. And the lady thought it was Lacey (laughter). And it's not like - it's, like, an old-timey (laughter) picture of Harriet Tubman. So not only did this lady not know who Harriet Tubman was, she thought Lacey was so full of herself she got her own face on her checks, but also, like, could not see the difference between Harriet Tubman and Lacey Lamar. BALDONADO: Now, back in 2013 and ‘14, "Saturday Night Live" was getting criticism for not having a Black, female cast member on the show. And so there was this concerted effort to cast someone. You were one of the comics that went in for that audition. What was that experience like? BALDONADO: There were all of these auditions in LA where - it wasn't, like, auditions. It was, like, showcases, And then, like, certain people from "SNL" would be there. And then you'd make it to the next one. And then you'd do another one - blah. So each one of those shows, it's you and 20 other Black women who do comedy. So you got to fall in love 20 different times and become a fan of 20 different people, because the side effect of being an improviser of color is a lot of theaters will take all of theirpeople of color and distribute them so that each group has one. So because of that, you never get to perform with anybody. So then, like, five of us or eight of us flew here to New York to audition on the "SNL" set. And I remember I auditioned after Leslie Jones. And as I'm walking into the studio, Leslie Jones is walking out. She's sweating, panting as she's walked off of the stage. She's already off the stage. She's 50 feet from the stage. People are still laughing. They can't see her anymore, and they're still laughing at her bits. And I was like, ooh, buddy. So I went in there. And I did my five minutes. And after that, we all went to dinner. And then I got a call at dinner saying I need to stay for the weekend. So then the next day, when we got down to the lobby, you know, I look around and it's LaKendra and Leslie, who were my little buddies from all of the auditions, you know? ‘And then we stayed to go to the "SNL" Christmas show. So it's the three of us. We're like, one of the three of us is going to be on "SNL." So then we get in line to go to the show. And there's a fourth person in line. And it's Sasheer Zamata. So we were like, oh, no. Now there's four. But I was the only one who didn't get "SNL" from the four of us. LaKendra got hired as a writer. Leslie got hired as a writer and then, you know, went on to be on the show. And Sasheer got hired to be on the show. I didn't get anything. I went home with no job (laughter). BALDONADO: But then, a couple days later... RUFFIN: Then a couple day thought, 100%, he was calling me to say he was sorry that I did not get hired by "SNL." later, Seth Meyers called me on the telephone. And I ‘And I kept saying, you didn't have to call. It's fine (laughter). But he was trying to offer me a job. BALDONADO: Well, Amber Ruffin, thank you so much for talking with me. RUFFIN: Yay. Thank you for having me. This was great. GROSS: Amber Ruffin spoke with FRESH AIR's Ann Marie Baldonado. You can find “The Amber Ruffin Show" on the NBC streaming service Peacock. The book, "You'llNever Believe What Happened to Lacey: Crazy Stories About Racism," which Amber Ruffin co-wrote with her sister, Lacey Lamar, will be published next month. Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, I'll talk with Ed Yong, a science writer for The Atlantic who's been covering the pandemic since it started. His new article about the research that led to the COVID vaccines is called "How Science Beat ‘The Virus And What It Lost In The Process." It's about how scientists managed to create vaccines in record time and how some flawed scientific research helped lead to misguided policies. I hope you'll join us. (SOUNDBITE OF AARON GOLDBERG'S "POINCIANA") GROSS: FRESH AIR's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Amy Salit, Phyllis Myers, Sam Briger, Lauren Krenzel, Heidi Saman, Therese Madden, ‘Ann Marie Baldonado, Thea Chaloner, Seth Kelley and Kayla Lattimore. Our associate producer of digital media is Molly Seavey-Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. I'm Terry Gross. (SOUNDBITE OF AARON GOLDBERG'S "POINCIANA") Copyright © 2020 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information. NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc, an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transeription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. 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