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Speaker A:
Speaker B:
Chapter 1: Introduction $UNKNOWN SPEAKER B$,$UNKNOWN SPEAKER A$ good
morning my name is john davis and i'm chief executive of cpa UK the commonwealth
parliamentary association UK and i'm delighted to have with me this morning Matthew
Hammond Matthew welcome welcome and good talk to you again John I'm Matthew Hammond
I'm strategic director of the chamber business team in the House of Commons and my role in the
virtual Commons has been to coordinate all the very clever expert people on the technological
side the broadcasting side the procedural side to try and mess them all together to deliver a
reasonably coherent hybrid service to members I've got a particular response to these four
activities in the chamber hence my job title there's been a whole load of work going on on virtual
select committees as well which I have a engagement with but I'm not in charge off because it's
just sort of happening but I'm very happy to cover the Select meters weren't at that interest but
it's

Chapter 1 Summary:

Chapter 2: Delivering Virtual Chamber $UNKNOWN SPEAKER B$,$UNKNOWN

SPEAKER A$a huge range already and we've been talking with some of the members who've
been as it were the participants and beneficiaries of that and what would you say given that a
central role you have what a what are some of those other key moments and decisions that that
you've been through in there in the past few weeks on that it's the first really key decision which
was still less than two months ago was on the 24th of March when the House approved a
resolution allowing remote participation by MPs in select committees which don't happen before
and within two days we had our first more or less completely virtual select committee evidence
session and then those virtual Select Committee's carried on right through our Easter recess
period in particular scrutinizing the Health Minister on the emerging coffin 19 crisis saying the
committee is sort of were trailblazers I mean once they'd done that it was pretty clear and was
gaining pressure for the chamber to be able to do something similar and so the speaker was and
the clock of house were getting letters and emails from members of parliament saying we you
need L to deliver some kind of virtual chamber and the speaker formerly rated the Clerk of the
House on the 31st of March saying by the time the house comes back I want members to be able
to take part virtually in creche and some ministers of statements because they need to be able to
deliver their scrutiny function and John bender asked me to kill eight various work streams on
that so that was a big event I think there were a couple of big meetings with the house comms
Commission with the speaker trying to work out what the government wanted because opti they
have a legitimate interest to so the two big events I mean a huge amount of work was done over
the Easter is set over the Easter recess particularly by the broadcaster's who had to work out a
way of in effect taking video converting like this and turn these into broadcast of all product
yeah I think I said some wails that it's a bit like taking making of TVs tedium out of the chamber
but then row up and having a class of six like you might have amazeen call you have six hundred
or maybe not all six hundred at once but quite a lot and

Chapter 2 Summary:

Chapter 3: Resolution Extending Hybrid Proceedings $UNKNOWN SPEAKER B$,

$UNKNOWN SPEAKER A$mathy in there it sounds like quite early on obviously some
Parliament's have gone for seven entirely virtual version and some have gone for the hybrid was
it was that ever a significant option or a significant decision for Westminster the speaker said
right from beginning and the leaders house has said this there's always a Savini libel right for
members to attend Parliament it goes back to the 14th century and leave thousands of crater that
more than once what the speaker was keen to do was make to make clear that there was no
advantage particularly in coming in wouldn't get calls just by turning on the sitting in the
chamber but there was no advantage particularly in staying at home he was quite neutral that
respect because it was a way of ensuring that was one of another hats on as chair of the
Commission and therefore responsibility having responsive could of the estate and safety that we
can manage the numbers on the estate we could do our bit for ensuring that people could work
from home not travel and thereby obey government guidance and also quite soon keep numbers
down in the chamber which lots and lots of hearts throughout the world have had to do so yes the
hybrid model was always sort of there when the house came back on the 21st of April we passed
a resolution but the first day back without notice which allowed for the first hybrid question time
the following morning and then on the 22nd of April we passed the further resolution which
extended hybrid proceedings to other business second readings of bills or other legislation
general debates and so on so fairly quickly week and then the following week we moved into
legislation because the government had said it's redline was it need to continue its legislative
program the other big decision was changing how we vote because fully physical voting
particularly when many members don't wish to come to Westminster or unable to because they're
shielding for medical or other reasons it was impracticable and at some stage you need be able to
have votes on controversial political stuff so we my colleagues the digital service devised and
tested a system which allowed members to vote anywhere where they have web access and can
log on to our existing to the member hub portal and we view is that several times we had four
remote votes now as well and that gets round the difficulty of physically distanced safe voting in
our traditional Westminster system as you as many of your viewers will know involves several
hundred people queuing through a cramped corridor which is probably not particularly compliant
with health and safety at the moment yeah and it's

Chapter 3 Summary:
 Chapter 4: Delivery of Virtual Parliament $UNKNOWN SPEAKER B$,$UNKNOWN
SPEAKER A$interesting talking to members and some of these conversations about about just
how significant a change that's been and all the things you've been through and that's all
Chapter 4 Summary:

happened as you say in in a matter of weeks if you look back over that still a short period of time
certainly that's particularly surprised or particularly pleased with how it's gone I think some of
the surprising things are the speed which literally centuries old practices which we regarded as
sort of apps he baked into the fabric of our constitutional arrangements could just be discarded in
a time of crisis and that goes and we that I think is a reflection of the way society has changed it
sounds surprising but Parliament's particularly very old ones like Westminster get in the habit of
thinking that change is impossible because we keep telling each other it is and it turns out not to
be the case so you know they minor way we just do me much less paper Parliament's are
fantastically good at generating paper and moving it around obviously with most people person
participating virtually and by which I mean most are far worse certainly on the chamber facing
side the commitment evasion side most staff are working remotely working at home and any
coming in when they need you to service you know meetings of the chamber or committees I
think remote voting I was convinced at the beginning during the Easter recess would never
happen he was important to do the work on it because it would be due diligence but suddenly
leader the house says I want this as soon as possible yeah and he's one of the most proudly
traditional parliamentarians we have so that was unexpected nice things that happened I think the
extent to which members appreciated it we had a letter from one member who to the leader to the
clerk of the house saying you must deliver a virtual parliament but some house comes back and
we took a deep breath and said well that's a bit bit of a challenge chaps and then she wrote to us
more recently saying I never thought you'd actually do it so she just been read so that sort of
personal feedback has been particularly appreciated and we've heard

Chapter 5: Collaborative Teamwork and Trust $UNKNOWN SPEAKER B$,$UNKNOWN

SPEAKER A$that in these conversations and you know congratulations to you and all involved
it's been very impressive to watch from US Parliament Watchers have been fascinating but also
hugely impressed by and as you think about the huge team effort across all the various functions
that you mention there's been extraordinary actually hey I think that's the other thing which is
pleased me I might I mean you know very well John that things only get done by really
collaborative teamwork we have valuing the House of Commons of values is about collaboration
and Trust and things like that it's a reminder than in a crisis they're even more important you
have really trust your colleagues realize how many people are involved so it's quite interesting
that we would come to us saying I want to talk to your digital service about your virtual
Parliament we say you should also talk to our Clark so our broadcast team all the new jobs we've
invented overnight to support all this but also to our estate services team there was a whole load
 of kit had to be delivered and installed over a bank holding weekend I mean you have to spend
money to get your procurement right that's kind of sad you just need to do it really fast and
knowing reminding how many people in this great supportive web are involved in doing things
and that's been very refreshing and the kind of collaboration we see that kind of some of those
behaviors have been fantastic I agree and I think

Chapter 5 Summary:

Chapter 6: New Roles Invented $UNKNOWN SPEAKER B$,$UNKNOWN SPEAKER A$

it's you know it's it's when one sees some of the return on investment in those things over
over previous times doesn't including the leadership and and how our organization works think
that's actually actually right you said it a little bit Matthew about about how not just jobs has
changed almost new roles have had to be invented yeah those additional roles particularly what
people think of as a clerk in the chamber is some of it still there well it's still some they're still
there so but we've changed so rather than if you watch question watch question time in the
Commons you won't see three sharks in a row at the beginning of code we have one because we
reckon one Clark sitting in the right-hand seat in the speaker's point of view is just about two
metres away for anyone else if we long as they stood in the right places they're just about two
metres away from the speaker as long as you didn't lean backwards so that that roll of film we
still record formally the decisions of the house we don't write them in a mini book we are using a
laptop which has got a a draft of that day's minutes of proceedings which we amend and update
as we get along in real time in sharepoint so my colleagues who are in the journal office
preparing the formal record will be doing that usually from their houses yes and then at the end
of the day it's a minor ritual of world of clarke traditionally when used to gather round the the
vote writer whose job it was to finalize all this and check through everything innovated to the
physical submit in a hovel and then you do the same thing to sign off the next day's all the paper
that is now done yeah ava calls like this yeah as

Chapter 6 Summary:

Chapter 7: Doing More Digitally $UNKNOWN SPEAKER B$,$UNKNOWN SPEAKER A$

you say and that's something we presumably which is where something is shifted in
weeks that it involved over probably literally centuries and these are things which you know we
 all knew we we could do more digitally but there's never been quite the burning platform to do it
but we've also created new roles so there's a whole bunch of people whose job it is be contacting
members and setting them up for their video calls queuing them in engaging with the broadcast
team you ever need a new modern traditionally the broadcast team of manage cameras pointing
at members in one big room and they did brilliantly their hats now do that as well with feed
coming in from any all sorts of yeah people members on their you know their laptops their iPads
whatever they've got and make trying to make sure that to broadcast of all quality but it's a whole
team of people who are supporting that and they are from all over the house service we've put out
a general call and they they work shifts in the broadcast hub and for them you date the skills you
need you know really good interpersonal skills talking to members reassuring them working out
you know what they need and also good calmness under pressure very good quick judgment
getting on well but these are all kind of classical skills of anyone who's delivering yeah
delivering you know whatever outcomes you need for an organization its

Chapter 7 Summary:

Chapter 8: Comparing Notes with other Parliaments $UNKNOWN SPEAKER B$,

$UNKNOWN SPEAKER A$testament to the flexibility people being able to do that but it's and
it's been very impressive to watch as I say but you've kindly been sharing I know you've been
involved in some of the sharing with other Parliament's and you can take the sort of you know
insights or things that have struck you when you've been comparing notes or sharing what we've
been with other Parliament's around CPM more generally well I think as ever and I as you know
don't might your viewers may not I used to be head of the agencies often as the comments I had a
bit of a an idea of the extraordinary range of how Parliament's do things differently but also
there's always a few common factors that come up but I think two observations one is for some
Parliament's well-resourced quite big already maybe a bit down this route I mean the Brazilian
National Congress is a really good example and they've surged ahead on a very digital approach
and they have a voting remote voting app solution which is very very advanced it has a facial
recognition in it for instance so you have taken bassy for an MP you take take a photograph
yourself on your phone every time you start a dating round there's a net for level authentication it
also perhaps more entertaining he has a leadership guidance tab so you know this is so
redeeming known as the virtual whip I don't know it's not a feature we built a dual system we've
not been asked a

Chapter 8 Summary:
 Chapter 9: Challenge of Small Parliaments $UNKNOWN SPEAKER B$,$UNKNOWN
SPEAKER A$conversation with with with looking ahead to what modern whipping might be
like in the new system well I think I know Chris because he's on the procedure committee and
we've regularly talk to him actually got along at the other end of the scale the challenge of small
parliaments often with did not receive a lot of administrative autonomy so quite often as you
know there if not subsidiaries of government they're varied they will get their funding on the
Treasury there'll be very strong executive control not over department in democracy but often
over the literally the administration the funding yeah and that last of all time be pragmatic I think
on top of that very strict constitutional requirements can cause problems in I think it was a CPA
seminar the other week I think it was where we we and possibly I'm going to say tin walled now
it might have been Jersey but like I can't remember we're saying well it helps that we have our
understand the orders and by and large we can look I do what we like you know we boys other
Parliament's yeah their powers derive from a legal basis which means that they even rules like
doesn't mace have to be on the table it's almost a decision for the Constitution where isn't and
that's that's a challenge a lot of the questions I was asked in a previous one seminar was around
those do you have have a speak incision you have further made from the table what about these
rules we say well we do we need there is not to and and also the obvious final challenges for
some Parliament's they are very small they have no money and as someone said right at the end
of a big event the other day we have the hurricane season coming yes so this is just one more
thing oh yeah I'm thinking particularly my colleagues with secretaries general who have to keep
the show on the road under quite on him for us quite unimaginable circumstances so you know
I'm really impressed by them achieving any meetings at all and some circumstances and it's one
thing one

Chapter 9 Summary:

Chapter 10: Different Approach in House of Lords $UNKNOWN SPEAKER B$,

$UNKNOWN SPEAKER A$reason why I think the CPA is a very good networked sharing this
one because as you say between the very different challenges that our big traditional Parliament
that you have and many of the others around Rand the Commonwealth where it's a very different
challenge but I think sharing what we are all learning from this experience is already proving
useful and will continue to and on the subject of sharing one of the things and I'm sort of moving
towards the end if that's all right because I've got another meeting about stuff with us it's also
sharing with the House of Lords another thing that sets us apart from some but not all other CPA
 Parliament is that we're bicameral and that has been really interesting because the 7 House of
Lords has adopted a different approach to us for all sorts of reasons the most fundamental thing
there if wrestling with is there demographic the average age of the House of Lords is about 70
yes which is just the point where you know government guidance in the UK from government
the various different medical health authorities is that something you should be really after
yourself you really should be thinking quite hard about leaving your house and of course other
other men's houses order much older than that so they are yeah really big although that mean the
speaker the Lord speaker has been sharing pleadings virtually yes our speaker has been sharing
them physically so there's all sorts of challenges there the debate is going on in the Commons
now about how long we should maintain the SHA proceedings the order to the order to make
them work formally elapses yeah when the recessed starts the Lord's however is continuing with
down the virtual hybrid track and I'll select committees that continued to be virtual but with
probably increasing physical participation as time goes on as as we find safe ways of doing it
yeah and then as if we do start having more members come back onto the estate but the next
round of challenges will be delivering a safe estate delivering safe physical proceedings in the
chamber and in legislation committees and just in the kind of corridors and all those social
spaces which parliamentarians really renowned to get politics done either you know just happen
in the chamber or in the committee a lot of time it happens you can't fit in the corridor in the
canteen as you're walking to their car part and all that stuff happening house we discovered nob
or personalized or domestic knives or family noise yeah so polymers aren't exempt from that and
it continues to be one level quite an interesting challenge I think don't think anyone has worked
harder in recent weeks then you know I remember my thirty years I think there's a lot of
members of parliament to be able to deliver their constituency services in a totally different way
yes yeah members above we could not stop wanting their MP more so than everything so you
don't know we've heard that that's been one of the common strands from talking to members
wherever they are whichever party yeah you know increase in volume and complexity quite
often Matthew so much your time today not at all it's much appreciated and congratulations
again to everyone involved in in that effort and you know perhaps we'll we'll come back and talk
again when the next evolutions have gone through in a few more weeks time but for I'd be
delighted to do that thanks very much John good luck

Chapter 10 Summary:

Speaker A Summary:

Speaker B Summary:
Overall Summary: