Chat 20080617

ch_SpielTalk!
30/05/2008 17:19:23 seo I've fancied a couple times the

idea of doing a game which would require lots of research.
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 17:19:58 seo OTOH, while that could be
interesting, I know I would never finish such a project.
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 17:47:46 Seth well, I've had enough fun for today
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 17:47:50 Seth time to go get a burrito
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 17:48:01 Seth look for little tiny Alphabet
cubes,
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 17:48:07 Seth and finish my kublacon report
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 17:48:19 Seth I finished the last installment
last night, but fell asleep
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 17:52:26 Zzzzz joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 17:57:08 seo Hi Dave. Were you waiting gor Seth
to go? ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 17:57:38 seo You can get your burritos yourself
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 17:59:22 Zzzzz Seth quit (timeout)
pv_23670adb9341981594e4efd702294b00_f0a0d349d16858645919e077c6ae5744 30/05/2008
17:59:22 Zzzzz Seth quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 18:43:52 clearclaw2 .
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 21:05:51 Zzzzz ..
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 21:08:28 Zzzzz Zzzzz changes his/her nickname to
Zzzzz-dreamingofgame
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 21:35:28 Rick Rick quit
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 21:52:06 clearclaw .
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 21:52:22 clearclaw clearclaw quit
pv_23670adb9341981594e4efd702294b00_f0a0d349d16858645919e077c6ae5744 30/05/2008
21:52:23 clearclaw clearclaw quit
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 21:52:33 clearclaw joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 22:16:32 seo good night people!
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 22:16:35 seo seo quit
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 22:21:36 Rick joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 22:30:51 blueatheart joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 23:27:59 clearclaw blueatheart quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 30/05/2008 23:54:43 nando joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 00:27:38 Seth joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 00:59:22 Seth Hi all
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:11:57 clearclaw lo
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:12:18 Seth Hey
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:12:30 Seth almost done with my final
installment of my Kubla report
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:12:32 Seth finally
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:12:40 clearclaw I am rescinding most of the
earlier ideas for OP changes.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:13:43 clearclaw For instance automatic proas
are gone. THere's a nead for manual growth in early game resource consumption. It
allows the network to grow large enough to viably support kulabefore kula actually
starts.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:14:37 Seth free proas allow too much money in
the system too fast? Yeah, I can see that could happen
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:14:46 clearclaw Kula are remaining split,
though I'm rewokring all the numbers yet again. It looks like I'm going to have to
back out on the idea of kahuna as resource multipliers. They're just too big, even
at 1.5.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:15:12 Seth I thought they were kinda big, but
I didn't think it was necessarily a problem
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:15:16 clearclaw Not too much too fast so much
as no drain and a need for the drain to be released.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:15:20 Seth but yeah, there's too muchmoney all
over the place
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:15:34 clearclaw Less than you think without
kahuna
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:16:02 Seth but it was nice to be able to have
a good income spot to 'aim for'
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:16:02 clearclaw The default 3/5 prices are
good. I may return to them if I can figure a way to fit kahana and the new kula in
that model.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:16:22 Seth return to them?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:16:25 Seth did they change?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:16:28 clearclaw grins. I'll probably keep
that in some form.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:16:49 Seth what do you think of this...
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:16:52 clearclaw Yes. In the base game proas,
kahuna, etc are all 3 shells or 5 fish.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:17:26 clearclaw kula are the big problem.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:17:38 Seth players start with a Kahuna on the
board maybe you place it instead of routes during setup), you have to cart them
around, and they just give you like 1F1S or something
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:17:45 Seth extra income
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:17:59 Seth or no extra income
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:18:08 clearclaw The primary purpose of kahuna
is to weight the incentive grid.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:18:12 Seth just extra Prestige when people
'deliver to that island"
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:18:16 Seth (over your route)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:18:23 clearclaw That's really their own
purpose.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:18:33 Seth hmm
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:18:47 Seth you could try allowing kula gifts
only when delivering to Kahunas...
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:18:53 clearclaw Current assumption is VPs for
your prestige for others.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:19:01 Seth i.e. you are giving the gift [i]to
the kahuna[/i]
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:19:15 clearclaw No, there are not enough
kuhuna and they rapidly become isolated with no nearby markets.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:19:20 Seth maybe allow purchase of more
kahunas
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:19:33 Seth so you have to cart them around...
I kinda like the idea of that
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:19:55 clearclaw One of the larger problems in
the game is positioning kahuna. Moving them is horrendously expensive once past
the mid-game.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:20:13 clearclaw 2 kahuna per player is
already borderline too many, esp with 5P
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:20:24 Seth it's in your interest to put the
kahuna where it can be delivered to, so you get kula gits (and chancs to
reciprocate)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:20:56 Seth yeah, but if the 'cost' of moving
them increases for everyone, it's still pretty even
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:21:17 clearclaw Yeah, but that's a short
lived value. The other players will ensure that. Late game the value of kahuna is
to generate resource streams for you.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:21:35 clearclaw Kahunas rapidly form deserts
around themselves.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:21:36 Seth I'd like to see moving kahuna,
moving multi-stacks (for 1 proa per market in stack)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:21:49 Seth (making it a little easier to get
things to kahunas)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:21:55 clearclaw Moving stakcs is a Bad Itea
(tm)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:22:26 clearclaw It voids one of the primary
reasons for forming stacks in the first place: to dictate destinations.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:22:33 Seth ‹clearclaw› Late game the value of
kahuna is to generate resource streams for you. <- um... you said you were going to
take waay the resource multiplier
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:23:00 clearclaw Yes I am, that doesn't mean
that players won't deliver through your kahuna for the free prestige.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:23:01 Seth making something real expensive to
do is similar to making it undoable (not the same, but similar)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:23:32 clearclaw At that level of expense, ie
I don't want it to ever happen, there's no need for the ability.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:23:46 clearclaw This is not a game of
unbounded freedoms
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:24:15 clearclaw The graph is dictated by the
stacks. That's central to the game definition.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:24:28 clearclaw Err, network definition.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:25:14 clearclaw If you don't want the stack
there, don't make it there and make sure nobody else makes it there either. If
they do, stack it to 3+ and remove it.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:25:22 Seth I don';t think the game as a whole
would change that much if you could move stacks. I think it would just become less
frustrating
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:25:41 clearclaw Frustration is desireable.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:25:51 Seth depends on the frustration
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:26:03 clearclaw True, but I consider this one
desireable.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:26:24 clearclaw Graph manipulation is core to
the game. Stacks define the graph being manipulated.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:26:47 Seth heh
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:26:58 Seth and moving stacks manipulate the
graph ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:27:07 Seth fine, so no moving stacks
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:27:43 Seth note also that the moving stacks
suggestion goes hand in hand with the increasing costs of proas, which I maintain
is a Good Idea even without being able to move stacks
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:27:46 clearclaw Of course moving stacks
change the graph. For simplicities sake the idea is that stacks are nodes and
nodes are constant until removed.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:28:36 clearclaw The base game without kahuna
multiplication does not need increasing costs. Players stillc harge up fairly fast
but the decisions remain modestly interesting.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:28:55 clearclaw It is quite possible to play
and win without ever going to more than 5 proas.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:29:03 clearclaw That's only 3 upgrades.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:29:40 Seth yeah, but it's not the 6th and 7th
proa that are interesting (well, they are), but the 2nd/3rd/4th proas. They are
effectively skipped
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:29:40 clearclaw More simply proa upgrades
aren't very important. They're only there to provide an early game drain.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:29:54 clearclaw Skipped?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:30:02 Seth like you shoot to 5
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:30:17 clearclaw Takes a few turns.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:30:23 clearclaw 3-4
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:30:32 Seth I see what you are saying, you want
players to go ahead and have 5 proas, you just want to drain money from the economy
as well..
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:30:38 clearclaw Sometimes more in a low
income game.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:30:39 Seth so you make them pay some nominal
cost
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:30:40 Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:30:44 dnjkirk joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:30:51 clearclaw 3/5 isn't nominal.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:31:16 Seth it is relative to the benefit of
having additional proas (they pay for themselves in a hurry)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:31:26 clearclaw Without kahuna that's pertty
much an entire delivery.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:31:48 clearclaw Which is the odd point, they
don't pay for themselves very quickly past 3.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:31:51 Seth without a kahuna it's definitely
harder to get cash, that's true
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:32:15 clearclaw 3 is great, 3 is wonderful,
after that they're necessary more because the deliveries are too damned long, not
because they pay for themselves.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:32:48 Seth right, I see that part
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:32:53 Seth and that's interesting too I guess
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:33:09 clearclaw doesn't think that proas are
interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:33:42 clearclaw They're no more interesting
than markets or shells or fish or any other component. They're just a meta-
currency.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:33:49 Seth I think there's the opportunity for
a nice, agonizing decision between spending your income on KUla for more Prestige
income, and on Proas for longer deliveries (in theory for more Prestige income)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:34:13 Seth which I guess you have at 3/5
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:34:48 Seth but if you've successfully set up
your network so other people are giving you resources, and you're hemmorhaging
fish, then 5 fish for a Proa is nothing
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:34:58 clearclaw You're thinking liek a
resource game again, it isn't. Whenever confronted with that decision the correct
decision is almost invariably to do both and to cash in VPs until you can do both.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:35:14 Seth [i]* clearclaw doesn't think that
proas are interesting[/i] <- I think they could be more interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:35:22 Seth becaus ethey drive your income
streams
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:35:53 clearclaw nods. They could be more
interesting. But to make them interesting I'd have to make this a tight resource
game and it isn't. It is a game or moderate continuous largesse.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:36:06 clearclaw s/or/of/
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:36:10 Seth bah
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:36:11 Seth lame
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:36:22 clearclaw Affluence.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:36:40 Seth who wants to play such a
straightforward game where the dcisions are simply "do everything you want, sac VPs
until you can afford it"
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:36:56 clearclaw I do.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:36:59 Seth just keep doing everything you can
until you ruun out of money
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:37:10 Seth and since you have a ton of income,
there's little you cant do
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:37:20 Seth you're only really limited in
deliveries by Proas
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:37:43 Seth and the fact that you get 2
delivery rounds a turn
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:37:43 clearclaw Because the real decisions
aren't VPs, aren't proas, aren't fish, aren't shells, or any of that resource crap,
the real difficult decisions are graph and incentive manipulations.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:37:47 Seth (Hi Dylan)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:37:49 clearclaw Those are the interesting
decisions.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:38:27 clearclaw Right, proas and resources
aren't interesting. This isn't AoS or Power Grid or any other stupid
infrastructure/resource management game.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:38:29 Seth ok... you are limited in how much
you can manipulate the graph by the fact that you get 2 delivery turns each round,
and by the number of proas with which to make deliveries
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:38:47 Seth ... and yet it has infrastructure
and resources
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:38:50 clearclaw Exploration is and turn order
is the primary manipulation tool.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:39:13 clearclaw Yeah it has infrastructure
and resources. They're just something to hang the actual interesting part on.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:39:21 clearclaw I don't care about them.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:40:06 Seth If that's so then I bet you could
simply cut a LOT of this game out and localize your 'interesting decisions' in a
succinct, short game without the "window dressing'
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:41:00 Seth how about this... what's so
different if you're allowed to deliver 1 market per turn, irrespective of length?
Delete Proas altogerher
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:41:12 clearclaw I've thought about that. I'm
not convinced. Much like, say, the 18XX require their length in order to build the
value systems that make the game interesting, OP appears to need a certain level
of substrate and length for the same reasons.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:41:44 clearclaw That would gut the most
interesting portions of the end-game.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:42:14 Seth yeah, and I'd assert that those
reasons are that it's interesting to have to manage your resources and to have to
improve your infrastructure at the cost of something else.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:42:31 clearclaw I suspect it is possible to
get OP down to just over 100 minutes. Just. 120 seems far more natural.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:42:42 Seth in AoS you improve your engine at
the cost of something else (a delivery or an action)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:43:23 Seth because if you could do it faster
then you'd skip all 1-link deliveries and dive straight into three link deliveries
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:43:33 Seth and that would be boring,
degenerate, silly
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:43:37 clearclaw No, the delivery patterns in
the end-game, setting up turn order and exploration patterns so as to chain
deliveries so as to sequence the maximal number of multi-connected islands
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:43:51 clearclaw nods. This isn't AoS.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:44:32 clearclaw Again, this isn't a resource
management game, not at that level. In general once past the mid-game you have all
the fish and shells and (almost) VPs you could ever want.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:45:01 clearclaw (not quite VPs as you won't
quite have enough to blitz on kula and end while still winning)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:45:36 clearclaw Resources flow like water in
OP. They flood through the players in a constant stream.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:45:59 Seth also, I dislike games with a "hang
back, hang back, BLITZ" dynamic. Though OP doesn't necessarily have the 'hang back'
part
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:46:04 clearclaw (if the players play
moderately well -- I've seen people bork that bit utterly and starve for even a few
fish and shells)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:46:24 clearclaw OP is clearly a build then
blitz game.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:46:55 clearclaw Waiting does nothing but give
other players advantages.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:47:25 Seth well, I guess whether I like it or
not depends on how sudden and short the blitz is. I guess you could say Puerto Rico
is a "build and blitz" game
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:47:49 clearclaw A blitz, if successful, is
one turn.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:47:51 Seth So is there an [b]SvB[/b] in OP?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:48:12 clearclaw A player lunges from ~mid-
teems of Prestige to 33+ in one turn.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:48:42 clearclaw There's no builder pattern,
but there are multiple base courses to victory.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:48:45 Seth see, that doesn't excite me
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:48:58 clearclaw shrugs. Perhaps OP is not
for you.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:49:09 Seth but it so easily could be
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:49:20 Seth so what are the base courses for
victory
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:49:21 clearclaw Perhaps. Not my goal.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:49:22 Seth ?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:49:40 clearclaw I'm not attempting to make a
game which is exciting to you
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:49:56 clearclaw I'm not attempting to make a
game which is particularly exciting to anyone.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:50:29 clearclaw I'm attempting to make a game
which is interesting in very specific ways. Excitement is optional.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:51:59 clearclaw The base patterns for OP are
the permutations of fish/shell balance and primary driver vs incentive control
versus leech
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 02:56:04 clearclaw waves belatedly to Dylan.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 03:01:31 nando nando quit
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 03:06:42 clearclaw My goal is to create the
shiny pebbles for the boys on Newton's beach.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 03:44:30 dnjkirk Hydraulic societies
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 03:44:36 dnjkirk very interesting reading
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 03:45:12 dnjkirk where water is the natural
reasource which is scarce or regulated, and which is a fundamental strategic
resource necessary for the functioning of a given society
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 03:45:33 dnjkirk combine this with a rice
economy and you have a very interesting economic model
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 03:48:58 dnjkirk rice is one of the few crops
that can increase yield through increased manpower
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 03:49:11 dnjkirk it can be cropped several
times
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 03:49:22 dnjkirk but is water intensive
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 03:49:36 dnjkirk so dry-land farming rice is a
very interesting game balance
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 03:50:01 dnjkirk in a hydraulic/rice based
economy, you have a natural balance of strategic choices
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 06:31:53 Gogolski joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 06:32:31 doho123 joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 06:36:40 Codename joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 06:37:13 dnjkirk doho123 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 07:02:25 Seth Codename quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 08:37:26 Gogolski Anyone present?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:01:01 dnjkirk yup
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:05:54 dnjkirk kinda
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:07:00 Gogolski I just wanted to share my
happy feeling about a playtest last night... That's all ;o]
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:39:50 dnjkirk good stuff
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:40:05 dnjkirk I think I have firmly gotten
back into the game-making mood
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:40:24 dnjkirk I slipped into a kind of
after-shock when Genji was out of my hands
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:40:56 Gogolski Me too. It's been quite a
long time since that happened.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:41:39 dnjkirk what were you testing last
night?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:43:28 Gogolski The Hand that FEEDS, the Hand
that BEATS. Where players are Gods caring for their followers and also abusing
them... Héhéhéhé....
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:43:56 dnjkirk Gods can reserve both rights
I suppose :)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:44:42 dnjkirk I always liked the thought of
making a Populous-style God game
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:44:54 dnjkirk have made a couple basic
designs, but not tested any
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:47:16 Gogolski I'm working on it. It came
out of the design with the walking island beasts (if you remember that). I was
finally able to let go of it and change everything (except for the beasts that
still roam the lands)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:48:30 dnjkirk cool
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:48:53 dnjkirk I think I remember reading
that blog
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:49:00 dnjkirk the gigantic walking beasts
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:49:07 dnjkirk the size of small continents?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:52:11 Gogolski Not small continents, but
very large cities. They are back!
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:52:44 dnjkirk OK, I was working on a dune
computer game a while back
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:52:50 Codename Quick question for anyone who
knows: I am trying to prototype a card game by printing onto stickers and then
"stickering" a deck of playing cards. Problem is this, to expensive. I know some
say it is more cost effective than cardstock, but I have no idea where to look to
make it that cheap. Do you know where to go for cheap pages of 4 x 3 stickers and
cheap cards?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:53:00 dnjkirk and I was just walking though
the old graphics I made
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:53:31 dnjkirk just print on a piece of
paper, and get it cold-laminated, and cut it out
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:53:33 dnjkirk better and cheaper
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:57:00 Codename That is what I thought but
seo said he was able to get better quality for cheaper this way. Ohh well, back to
cutting :)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:57:53 dnjkirk I prototyped Genji that way.
worked for me :)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 09:59:55 Gogolski Cards are always a problem
for me when prototyping a game... What do magic cards sleeves cost? I've thought
about using these for prototyping
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:17:09 Codename When you cold laminated did
you have your own laminator or did you outsource?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:20:24 clearclaw Cheapest is to print on plain
paper and slip into MtG card protectors. Next up is Avery lables stuck onto 75cent
decks from Target/Walmart/etc
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:22:42 clearclaw You can get MtG sleeves for
around 5c each if you look. There are cheaper sleeves available, but they're
ususually not opaque.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:23:14 clearclaw uses plain paper in MtG
sleeves.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:23:47 Codename Hmmmm, I would like to do a
cost breakdown versus time breakdown somewhere on the wiki.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:24:56 Codename for example if it is $.05 per
sleeve and then may $.01 per piece of plain paper that would be $2.76 per deck of
54 cards.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:25:26 Codename But then you would also have
to have a deck to get the cards to be firmer.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:25:45 Codename So that is an extra buck.
Making it around 3.76 per deck of 54 prototyped cards.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:25:57 Codename Work involves cutting and
inserting.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:26:38 clearclaw When I (rarely) wanted a
firmer deck I used halves of 3x5 cards
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:26:56 clearclaw But I quickly gave up on
that. Paper in sleeves was/is fine for me.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:27:27 clearclaw Sleeves are re-usable. So $x
invested in sleeves will last many games.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:27:47 Codename Hmmm. Cardstock is $10 at
staples for 250. So that is $.04 per page, meaning it is $.24 per deck of 54, that
seems the cheapest.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:27:47 clearclaw And paper/toner cost is a
given/constant across all the systems.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:28:05 Codename Yeah, the sleeves are re-
usable.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:28:11 Codename Do that add that much?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:28:32 Codename To the feel of the prototype.
I am quite happy with my cardstock.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:28:37 clearclaw Paper is also lowest effort.
They don't need precision cutting and thus can be wahcked out on a guillotine at
great speed.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:28:53 clearclaw Add much?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:29:08 Codename Like to the quality of the
prototype.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:29:17 Codename Does it play nicely in your
hand :)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:29:34 Codename How does it shuffle?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:29:48 clearclaw Ahh, I don't pay much
attention to that, just if it functions and doesn't get in the way of game-use.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:30:00 clearclaw Sleeves shuffle oddly.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:31:03 clearclaw Other benefit of sleeves is
that they are all identical and they are coloured. Making identical cuts is hard,
and via colours you can make multiple decks trivially.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:32:02 Codename Yeah, have you ever seen
those "Series of Unfortunate Event" Books and how the pages are purposely staggered
and not equal.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:32:12 Codename My decks look like that, but
I don't care much :)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:32:41 clearclaw That is supposed to resemble
hand-cut folios.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:33:43 Codename So when I prototype with
cardstock I just say, this game is suppose to look like that :)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:34:13 clearclaw If it is not a problem with
cards being effectively marked, that's fine.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:34:22 Codename While chatting I haven't been
able to find any cheap avery labels. Or ones that would fit on a card.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:34:32 clearclaw If you need cards to be
confidential, then that's a problem.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 10:35:25 clearclaw I don't know the lables other
people use for cards. I've never bothered with lables. I see them very commonly
used on other's prototypes though (eg Tom Lehman, Alan Moon, etc).
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:12:38 clearclaw I guess May is a gaming
month. 98 plays so far and there's a gamesday today...
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:13:06 dnjkirk if only
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:13:18 dnjkirk I'm lucky I have already
hooked up with a Shanghai gaming group
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:13:24 dnjkirk I am hoping insta-playtesters
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:13:26 clearclaw 26 of those plays are Carrom
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:13:41 dnjkirk I have wanted to get into
Carrom
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:13:55 dnjkirk I'm probably going to pick up
a board before I leave
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:13:59 clearclaw I like Carrom. Have a crappy
board, but I still like it a lot.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:14:23 clearclaw What I have a a POS Synco.
But it has convinced me to get a better Synco.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:14:32 dnjkirk When I served in Pakistan,
there was a crew of 4 regulars who played every lunchtime with a weird oversize
ring-shaped striker
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:15:00 clearclaw I've seen rings in US Carrom,
but not Commonwealth Carrom.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:15:41 dnjkirk Synco, that seems to be all
that is on offer here
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:16:21 clearclaw nods
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:16:41 dnjkirk and only the most basic model
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:16:48 clearclaw They seem to have a monopoly
on non-trash boards.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:17:07 clearclaw The board we have has clearly
visible waves in the surface and is quite rough.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:17:18 dnjkirk I'll pick one of those up
though, would prefer if it came with a stand too
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:17:37 clearclaw Carrom powder (I use the
starch-based powder rather than boric) works well enough
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:17:44 clearclaw doesn'
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:17:47 clearclaw t have stand
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:18:09 dnjkirk your men don't skip? :)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:18:21 clearclaw Hehn
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:18:32 clearclaw No, we frolic.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:19:19 dnjkirk I also need to rescue my
Crokinole board from deep storage
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:19:56 clearclaw I enjoy Carrom more than
Crokinole. Crokinole seems more of a party game.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:20:12 dnjkirk Not the way we play :)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:20:47 dnjkirk well, Crokinole has the oddly
compelling dictum that you must hit one of the other player's pieces
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:20:57 dnjkirk so it seems to breed
competitiveness
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:21:07 dnjkirk serious business
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:21:28 clearclaw True. But with a little
skill that becomes mostly irrelevant.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:22:39 Seth Codename, and JC: if [i]all[/i] of
the cards are 'effectively marked' then it's not a problem (even if theyr'e
supposed to be confindential
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:23:07 Seth Code: no need to stiffen the
sleeves - I'd use cardsstock in sleeves, but even paper in sleeves will shuffle
fine
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:23:12 clearclaw It is if I'm not supposed to
know what cards you have in your habd, or what the face down draw is
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:23:27 Seth JC: Sorry I fell asleep in the
middle of a conversatoin last night
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:23:32 clearclaw Might as well print the card
faces on both sides
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:23:39 clearclaw Not a problem.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:24:17 Seth JC: If like 1 card, or all cards of
1 type are marked, then that's a problem... but if each card is effectively
different from every other card, and only barely, noone is going to be able to tell
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:24:46 Seth (and even if they could, I think
they won't)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:24:58 Seth (for the same reason you don't like
to track HTI)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:25:53 clearclaw It doesn't take long to
recognise that the card with the creased corner is the green 17, rht atht card with
the black smear is the whatever and so forth. Perhaps not the whole deck, but a
chunk of the deck. A game or three.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:26:17 clearclaw That's just automatic. No
concious thought required. Concious thought required to NOT do that.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:26:24 Seth they aren't marked identifiably,
they're just not all cut identically
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:26:34 clearclaw That's marked
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:26:48 clearclaw Been there done that.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:27:05 clearclaw Heck, I used to recognise
cards by the shapes of their corners.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:27:06 Seth so "the card that;s 1/16" wider at
the bottom than the top is the green 6"
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:29:56 clearclaw More exactly the trapezoidal
card, the narrower card, the square card etc.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:31:30 clearclaw Mainly I do corners tho.
They're easier and more recogniseable.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:34:07 clearclaw Gamesday calls.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:34:10 clearclaw wanders off.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:45:14 Seth have fun at games day. I am off to
see Crystal Skull again with parents
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:45:21 Seth see y'all later!
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 11:45:37 Seth Seth changes his/her nickname to
sej-afk
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 12:20:08 sej-afk Codename quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 12:22:57 Gogolski dnjkirk quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 12:34:36 sej-afk Gogolski quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 12:45:45 Zzzzz-dreamingofgame talk talk talk
talk
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 14:14:23 sej-afk Zzzzz-dreamingofgame quit
(timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 14:40:53 Codename Zzzzz-dreamingofgame quit
(timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:23:15 seo joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:26:16 seo anyone around?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:26:25 Codename yeah, for a bit
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:26:34 seo nice
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:26:45 Codename What are you up to seo?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:26:57 seo what's new? I read you're about to
print and test your lots of cards game :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:27:06 seo nothing new around here
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:27:35 Codename Yeah, just finishing up the
file and then going to be printing! Yeah!!!! Playtest time.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:28:04 Codename I went to the store looking
for printable labels, but everything I found was really expensive, so I think I am
just going to do cardstock
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:28:35 seo Did I thank you for the Ptolemy
feedback? If not, Thank you very much. Great feedback as always
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:28:53 Codename Yeah you did.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:28:54 Codename thanks
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:29:35 seo I don't use printable labels but
complete sheets of adhesive paper for commercial printing, cut to A4 or Letter size
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:30:00 seo it's really unexpensive. Labels
tend to cost too much
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:31:04 seo But you need to get the large
sheets from a comercial printer or a paper company, and they usually sell then in
large quantities :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:32:01 Codename Ohhhh, that makes sense
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:32:01 seo being a graphic designer, I have
the advantage of having a lot of friends in the printing buisiness, so I can get
the paper from one of them and buy just what I need
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:32:19 Codename That is nice.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:32:41 Codename Cardstock doesn't work to
badly, just looking for an alternative when I do send it in to a publisher.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:33:01 seo actually, I need to buy some. I'll
probably be able to buy 500 A4 sheets for about as much as I would get 50 or 100
Avery full sheet labels.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:33:35 seo As far as the game works well, I
wouldn't be too worried about the prototype for a publisher
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:33:58 seo but a nice looking prototype
obviously helps
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:34:23 Codename That is the thing, even if I
do original graphics and they choose to outsource the graphics, it looks nice :)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:35:09 seo also, a nice looking proto might
help with the playtesters, making their experience more enjoyable
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:35:40 seo which is a double edged sword, I
guess, as they might like the game more for the looks than the essence...
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:36:04 seo but personally, I think a good
prototype is a good thing, in most cases
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:36:10 Codename Interesting how that might
work.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:37:25 Codename I playtested one of my games
using Zuntzu, which is great but really hard if the game has a lot of components.
But despite the hard interface with a huge game I had the playtest went good. So
maybe it is good to have a bad prototype at times, because I realized that the game
was fun despite it taking twice as long as it ought.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:38:08 seo yepp
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:39:09 seo also, if you invest a lot of time
working on a prototype, you might be at least a bit less willing to make big
changes to it
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:39:26 seo so, in a way, a nice prototype too
early, MIGHT be bad
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:39:56 Codename It is true, I am already
falling in love with my cards because of how much time I have put into them :(
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:40:17 seo OTOH, with Ptolemy, working on the
prototype was a way to keep focused on the game even if it had some big flaws
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:40:55 seo so I think you just have to do
whatever you feel like doing, and not worry too much :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:41:06 Codename I am a big fan of multiplayer
games, is there a way you could make that game more than 2 players?
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:43:05 seo I dunno. Theoretically, adding more
cards (like playing with more than one deck) might be a possibility, but I'm nots
sure how well that would work
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:43:35 Codename Sorry I got to go, but nice
chatting. Take care.
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:43:49 seo np. Bye!
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 15:48:36 sej-afk Codename quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 19:10:45 sej-afk doho123 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 31/05/2008 20:58:35 Zzzzz Codename quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 05:41:27 sej-afk sej-afk changes his/her
nickname to sej-sleep
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 08:45:47 seo Good morning everyone
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 08:46:19 seo you'll probably all asleep
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 11:33:04 sej-sleep sej-sleep changes his/her
nickname to sej-store
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 14:35:29 clearclaw Lo Rick.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 14:53:21 Rick Hi, JC. Sorry, I was away eating
lunch.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 14:53:59 clearclaw No worries. Just noodling
along here
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 14:54:07 clearclaw should think about eating
today
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 14:54:51 Rick I've been working intermittently on
final polish for Spatial Delivery, before I pack it up and ship it off.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 14:55:16 Rick I have two deadlines, and one of
them is that my dratted laptop has been overheating and needs to go into the shop
tomorrow.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 14:55:32 clearclaw nods. Is there online
content for SD?
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 14:56:11 Rick My blog on BGDF, and a slightly out
of date ruleset at... (one moment, please)...
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 14:56:24 Rick
http://www.semicolon.com/Boardgames/SpatialDelivery.html
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:00:09 clearclaw reads
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:03:57 clearclaw Can you challenge a player
who holds no challenge tokens?
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:04:57 clearclaw Ooops, that's covered
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:04:57 Rick Yes. That makes it important to be
careful about choosing when to refuse a challenge.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:06:15 Rick Sheesh. I ran a Photoshop script
and my CPU temp reached 99 degrees C.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:06:38 Rick If I suddenly vanish from chat,
it's because my Mac summarily shut down from overheating.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:10:03 clearclaw In the case of a station
betwixt multiple planets, may the cards paid match only one of the planets?
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:10:22 clearclaw The text says YES the example
NO
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:10:47 Rick Text may be out of date. The final
rule is:
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:11:11 Rick If there is more than one adjacent
world, [i]one[/i] Goods card need not match.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:11:25 clearclaw nods.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:12:04 clearclaw 3 planets requiring A, B & C,
can't be satisfied by 3 A cards despite the fact that they all match.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:12:17 clearclaw (which is not clear from your
text above BTW)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:12:45 Rick ...right. I'll have a look at the
final rulebook and make sure that's plain. Good catch, thanks!
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:12:57 clearclaw Welcome.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:13:00 clearclaw continues
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:14:50 clearclaw The early text about actions,
being done, and then rounds etc is contradictory and confusing. (specifics on
request)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:15:04 clearclaw I suggest a quick blurb that
lays out the relationship of actions, turn and rounds.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:15:16 clearclaw Sort of an architecture for
the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:16:20 Rick The final version has that. There
are "tips" and "summary" callouts at frequent intervals.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:16:42 Rick Also a separate player aid that
hits the high points.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:16:55 clearclaw I presume there's also a
track for MSP.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:18:06 Rick Mini poker chips. There's no board
per se.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:18:08 clearclaw Can you challenge for
exploration cards? Not clear from rules.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:18:17 clearclaw nods chips
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:18:39 Rick Nope. Everybody gets the same
allotment, every round. Clearer in the final rules.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:19:22 Rick You can spend Goods cards for
exploration cards (renamed "Fuel" in the final) if you're desperate.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:19:45 clearclaw Really not clear what
exploration cards are used for. Sounds like they're just a hidden card type can
can be spent for exploration, just like goods cards can be spent for exploration,
with the only difference being that they are collected secretly.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:21:00 clearclaw
http://www.semicolon.com/Boardgames/Images/SD_Building.png In this diagram
could Green build that Bad Station in the middle of Yellow's route if Green had
built a path/route from Earth to that point?
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:22:10 Rick (Without looking) Yes. The
requirement is that you build at least one route segment, with a station at the far
end.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:22:25 clearclaw Also, may a branch be built
between pre-existant stations? (it seems not)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:22:46 Rick Correct, you cannot.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:23:19 clearclaw The diagrab shows a two-link
yellow route with a green station in the middle of it. It says the green station
is illegal. Can I build a route that ends in the middle of another player's route
and put a station there?
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:23:43 clearclaw (diagram confusing when
contrasted with rules text)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:24:45 Rick Yes, you can. Explicit in final
rules. Basic rule is: build at least one route segment, then build a station at the
far end.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:25:03 Rick No duplicating existing routes, and
only one station per intersection.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:25:17 clearclaw It seems like building
encircling routes that cut-off large radial sections might be valuable just before
the ship rnage grows.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:25:20 Rick I suppose I should update the web
page.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:26:00 Rick You can start a route from the
middle of an existing route. Cutting off is difficult.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:26:31 clearclaw No cost for moving over
another or own route -- not clear why routes are coloured?
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:26:52 clearclaw Just fixed cost for moving
over a route...?
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:27:15 clearclaw Teleport to new station is
free tho
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:27:35 Rick "Covered by the building costs",
thematically.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:28:15 clearclaw My point is that I don't see
why routes are coloured to players. It doesn't seem to matter at all who builds
what where for routes, only nodes/stations matter for player colour
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:28:54 clearclaw Thus routes aren't really
built, they are explored and thence public domain.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:28:56 Rick Ah, out of date rules again. In the
final, routes are colorless.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:29:20 Rick The diagrams still show color, but
have a note that the color is for clarity, to make the sequence of events clear.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:29:29 clearclaw Capiche
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:29:30 Rick Sales markers are also colorless.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:30:25 clearclaw Yeah, in this ed of the rules
they are coloured.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:31:14 clearclaw Seems like mostly a drafting
game with a twist via challenges.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:31:42 clearclaw Oh, rules don't state that
unplayed cards from a turn go to the players hand (no longer face-up before
shields)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:31:59 clearclaw Inferred by one portion of
text but not stated.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:32:07 Rick afk - one moment
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:35:36 Rick Rules are now explicit about that;
only the current drafts are challenged.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:35:42 Rick Shields are gone.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:36:24 clearclaw The rules I'm reading don't
say that the players pick up remaining unplayed cards
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:36:41 clearclaw likes no shields for hidden
tra...oh whatever.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:36:53 clearclaw Hehn
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:38:07 Rick You're right, it's a fairly
straightforward game.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:38:18 Rick There's tension in the draft to get
the cards you want,
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:38:34 Rick and tension in the explore-and-
deliver to compete for good station locations and first-delivery tokens.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:38:45 Rick But it's not a tremendously deep
game.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:38:54 clearclaw nods. Semms like around 45
minutes with experienced players, mebe 75 with newbies?
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:39:02 Rick I'd like to design a tremendously
deep game someday.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:39:10 clearclaw Wouldn't we all?
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:39:22 Rick Actually it runs about 90 minutes.
Experienced players could no doubt do it faster.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:39:47 Rick It's a "family game" so I'm not
expected there to ever be a lot of experienced, cutthroat players.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:40:09 Rick The KublaCon judges and some of my
playtesters like the thing more than I do.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:40:31 clearclaw Hehn. That's always amusing.
But we tend to get too close to our own games to see them well.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:42:08 clearclaw I'm currently stuck in the
fight over what I think is important in my game versus what the player seem to
think is important. This is more droll as some of what they want to lose
indirectly creates and is necessary for the things they like/want.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:43:08 Rick Yep. Playtesters don't always see
the connections.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:43:13 clearclaw whittles.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:43:33 Rick My challenge tokens used to have
rockets on them. This invariably made the players want to use them as fuel.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:43:54 clearclaw I don't see fuled mentioned
in the rules BTW
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:43:56 Rick It would have upset the fuel
economy. I had to change the icon on the tokens.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:44:00 clearclaw fuel
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:44:09 clearclaw (old rules no doubt)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:44:24 Rick It's the exploration cards, renamed
to "Rocket Fuel cards". The things you spend to make the rockets go.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:44:48 clearclaw Ahh, so fuel or goods make
rockets go. They throw the goods out behind them as reaction mass?
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:46:24 Rick You got it. :) It's a wonderful
kind of physics when reaction mass will get you to worlds around other stars, in
mere weeks.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:46:41 clearclaw You betcha.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/338332 I like pachinko pins more than the
ramp-form for dice towers.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:48:55 clearclaw (I seem to be rolling a lot
of dice lately, mostly for Lokomotive Werks)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:52:16 Rick Ooo. Nice design. The pins should
enforce rolling; ramps might allow mere sliding.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:52:43 Rick But we've gotten away from towers.
Helen built us a nice corral that folds flat for transport.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:52:57 clearclaw Exactly. Christopher
Dearlove made a set of clear/perspex towers with pins that I particularly admired.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:53:01 Rick Quieter, and lightweight so can be
handed around the table easily at need.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:53:09 clearclaw .me nod. Saw your corral.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:53:47 clearclaw I like towers as they remove
the "I roll good" aspect of dice, pushing them closer to pure random number
generators.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:54:20 clearclaw I also like the anonymity of
dice towers -- players don't get so attached to personally rolling or their roll
results.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:54:49 Rick We mostly avoid dice in games, and
don't see these troubles.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:54:59 clearclaw I'll probably get one of the
Haba 2D6 domes if I ever get back to playing Settlers.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:55:06 Rick There are exceptions (to avoiding
dice). I'm quite fond of Formula Dé.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:55:36 clearclaw Other than Liar's Dice,
Lokomotive Werks is the first game I've played in years that involved dice more
than trivially.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:55:45 Rick Candy uses a small clear
Tupperware-like dish, with lid. Works great: turn it upside down and slam it down.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:56:26 clearclaw (LW has 20 D6 which are
frequently rolled in sets of 1-5)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:56:50 clearclaw nods. Glorified dice cup.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:57:43 clearclaw That wouldn't work for LW as
the dice for a set have to be rolled and put aside, then the next set rolled and
put aside etc. Each dice set forms the market for that particular factory in that
turn.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:58:21 clearclaw There's usually ~6 sets in
play at any time, with 1-5 dice in each set.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:58:42 Rick Wouldn't work for lots of games.
Settlers is just two dice, every time. Candy plays a lot of Settlers and its
variants.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:59:32 Rick Played some Kingsburg lately; lots
of dice there.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:59:43 Rick Didn't like it much. Too many dice.
:p
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 15:59:46 clearclaw Yeah, that's why I'm thinking
of picking up one of the Haba domes. Cute things. Little wood base and a perspex
dome containing 2 D6. They also do one with a screw bottom that you can put your
own dice in.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:00:03 clearclaw hasn't played Settlers in
years tho.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:00:19 clearclaw I've not played Kingsburg.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:00:56 clearclaw !!! Looks like John is
willing to reprint Lokomotive Werks. He's been sending out offers...
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:01:16 Rick It's worker placement, with dice to
constrain which placements you can grab.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:02:03 clearclaw Yeah, I've watched a couple
games. Reminded me of a super-glorified, umm, that Fiadutti Yahtzee variant with
special powers thing that came out last year.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:02:15 Rick I haven't played LW -- nor Wabash
Cannonball, nor any of the apparently-cool rail games that have gotten attention
lately.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:02:35 clearclaw Hehn. You know where to go!
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:02:41 Rick To Court the King? I played that
with you. Just to be perverse, I enjoyed it.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:03:20 clearclaw I could see you liking LW.
It is fast, highly computational and aggressive, and with a more than healthy dose
of luck. I'm not sure why I like it.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:03:25 clearclaw (so much)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:03:41 clearclaw Yeah, TCtK.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:03:58 Rick I don't always have reasons for
what I like, or dislike. Usually I do, but some games are outliers.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:06:11 clearclaw I wasn't fond of TCtK. Part
of it may be that I have no history with dice in games. The games I played as a
kid (and I played very few games as a kid) never had dice (cards maybe, but not
dice -- didn't really start gaming until my late 30s) and most had little-no luck
factors. I still look at dice as sorta-aliens.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:06:20 clearclaw But yea, LW is clearly an
outlier for me.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:07:08 Rick TCtK had gorgeous cards, and it was
fun building up your dice count and deciding how to evolve your rolls.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:07:37 clearclaw nods, shrugs.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:07:47 Rick I can stand dice better in short,
light games where I can't have a 2-hour grand strategy ruined by extreme luck.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:08:36 clearclaw Yup! I also don't think dice
work well at all as the vaunted skill-leveler for games.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:08:44 clearclaw Hare & Tortoise shows that
clearly.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:10:20 Rick Yep. Dice [i]can[/i] elevate a noob
at the expense of an expert. But they can as easily work the other way.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:11:15 clearclaw And an expert will usually
arrange their turns to take better advantage of luck than a newb ever could.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:11:38 Rick Going afk for a while. My Mac
survived the running of Photoshop, and I have a tuckbox to cut and paste now.
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:11:54 clearclaw There are exceptions of
course, a winning expert will typically play far more conservative, and a losing
expert will open themselves to far larger (+ve) risks,
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 16:11:58 clearclaw waves
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 18:31:30 clearclaw Zzzzz quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 19:02:00 Rick seo quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 20:21:38 clearclaw doho123 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 20:21:48 Rick Z?
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 20:22:34 Rick D?
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 20:28:24 clearclaw !
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 20:41:54 sej-store Zzzzz quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 20:41:54 Rick Zzzzz quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 20:46:05 Rick Zzzzz quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 21:11:07 clearclaw Seth: Chris Hillary is the
dark haired long-pony-tail dude?
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 22:32:55 clearclaw clearclaw2 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 22:32:55 Rick sej-store quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 23:35:38 kj joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 01/06/2008 23:47:08 clearclaw kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 01:08:29 clearclaw sej-store quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 01:21:46 Seth yes
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 01:21:51 Seth that i chris hillary
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 01:21:56 Seth *is
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 01:22:12 Seth he played Loko Werks with us (the
4th guy)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 01:27:54 clearclaw nods, unsurprised.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 01:28:32 clearclaw I replied on his geeklist.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 01:29:09 Seth I'll go check it out
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 01:29:47 clearclaw Nothing much, just decision
density
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:00:53 Seth I see
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:00:57 Seth *yawn*
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:01:00 Seth is tired
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/31964
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:01:32 clearclaw I don't think I can afford to
reduce the transaction density of kula.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:02:38 Seth maybe not. I haven't had a chance
to play it yet, but I did gather some of the bits (markets, bag, and I have these 2
sided foam coin thingies that are red on one side and white on the other
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:02:48 Seth I might use those for Fish, though
they are stupid big
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:02:51 Seth )
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:03:12 Seth and if I do that then I have these
big-ass wooden coint hings that could be shells
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:03:29 clearclaw There are two types of those,
round and kidney-shaped.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:03:40 Seth I might just use 2 different
colored poker chips, and maybe use goegraphy to indicate fresh/rotten
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:03:49 clearclaw Suck bick items will make
bidding a bit rough
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:03:55 Seth the foam thingies? I have round
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:04:00 clearclaw Such big items will make
bidding a bit rough.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:04:20 clearclaw nods. They also come in hard
plastic as well as foam.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:04:26 Seth I am considering making route
markers... rectangular tiles with a Fish on one side and a Shell on the other
(color coded of course)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:04:48 clearclaw Easy enough. I'm lazy/
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:04:50 Seth then you could place the counter,
and put your bid elsewhere (like Brass I guess)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:04:55 Seth or under it
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:05:17 Seth with the coins, could just leave
one on theboard, put a cube (ownership marker) on it
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:05:19 clearclaw Oddly enough I'm retreating
to the original values for kula: 1/3/4/6/
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:05:25 Seth so the coin indicates type
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:05:33 Seth price?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:05:37 Seth or VP value?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:05:39 clearclaw VPs
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:06:02 clearclaw If the fish/shells are too
big there's a problem of determining which routes are newly bid this turn.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:06:03 Seth are you keeping the VPs when
awarding Kula?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:06:14 Seth true :/
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:06:22 Seth I thinik I'll just make some tokens
or something
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:06:28 Seth it' not that hard
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:06:53 clearclaw Currently, yes. I need the
recipient of a kula to (usually) get more value from the gift than the giver.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:07:02 Seth I may skip the icons and just make
one side red and the other black or whatever
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:07:33 clearclaw VPs allow that. I'm loath to
do the balancing with prestige as that inflates the prestige market as well as
allowing for degenerate run-aways.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:07:35 Seth well, they get Prestige (when it's
not even their turN) and the ability to give it later for more prestige
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:07:53 clearclaw The recipient doesn't get
prestige.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:08:12 Seth I keep forgetting that receiving a
Kula gift does NOT mean you just got income in Fish/shells
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:08:18 Seth they get to regift
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:08:21 clearclaw If they merely receive and
give they are equal -- not good enough.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:08:35 clearclaw Yes, and the regifting is
deliberately less profitable than the primary gifting.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:08:43 clearclaw (reciprocal gifting)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:08:53 clearclaw I'm fairly sure that's not
enough.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:09:45 Seth how come?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:10:04 clearclaw Additionally the player
receiving the kula gift receives the value of the kula as victory points plus one
victory point for each kula item they already possess.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:10:11 Seth I'm looking at your player aid to
remind myself exactly what happens when Kula are gifted
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:10:33 clearclaw AFAICT the delta profit
between giver and recipient can't be less than about 15% before the system breaks.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:10:34 Seth it would clean things up a lot if
you could just gift to the person who's route you delivered over :)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:11:08 Seth ‹clearclaw› Additionally the player
receiving the kula gift receives the value of the kula as victory points plus one
victory point for each kula item they already possess. <-- Eww! What's that for?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:11:09 clearclaw That would remove the
competition for multiply-connected islands.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:11:21 Seth how/why does it break? I want to be
sure I know what you're talking about
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:11:25 clearclaw Might be as high as 20%.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:11:26 Seth define "break" in that contest
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:11:32 Seth *context
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:11:48 clearclaw Break: The value of emergent
collusion becomes too high.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:12:10 clearclaw The core of the game is that
players must give things which are more valuable to their recipients than they are
to the gifting player.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:12:23 clearclaw Thus the recipients profit
more from the gifts than the givers do.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:12:54 clearclaw eg I give you $50, you
receive $75.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:13:25 Seth If you allow only gifting to people
who's route you delivered over, that would mean they naturally get more (give them
each a Prestige or something, and the recipient got Fish/Shells)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:13:50 Seth and I don't see where that reduces
competition like you said
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:13:58 Seth but maybe I'm missing something
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:14:00 clearclaw I do not wish to remove the
demand for multiply-connected islands.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:15:15 Seth I don't understand what you mean by
that removing demand
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:15:16 clearclaw From the mid-game onward the
scarcest and most sought after resource are islands which may be delivered to AND
multiple kula given. If I can make a delivery run in which I deliver to 3 islands
each of which has 3 connected players that means I can kive a total of 9 kula for a
potential gain of 45 prestige.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:15:44 Seth you still have all the same
incentive to have multiple connections to a city (multiple people connected)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:15:45 clearclaw If I may only give one kula
per isnaldn per delivery, then this multiplicative value is lost.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:16:09 Seth I thought you could only give 1
kula per delivery
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:16:18 Seth you can give 1 to each player
connected?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:16:24 clearclaw 1 per connected player per
island.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:16:33 clearclaw As long as you deliver to
that island
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:16:58 Seth getting that much Prestige at 1
time is a little rediculous when the game ends at 33
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:17:00 clearclaw After delivering a market to
an island the player may: ... give kula items to players that have claimed routes
connected to the destination island (see [sub:About-Kula:] About Kula and Prestige)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:17:19 clearclaw I've seen mid-20's, not 45.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:17:23 clearclaw That's fine.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:17:25 Seth I see... I misremembered that
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:17:36 Seth I dunno... to met hat's not
attractive
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:17:39 Seth like too much at once
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:17:47 Seth I guess I just don't like games
that explode like that
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:17:48 clearclaw There are other constraints
which curb that excess -- like VPs and resources.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:18:45 clearclaw It is fairly obvious when it
is about to blitz. All players will be setup for the lunge if they pay attention.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:19:17 Seth still unappealing to me
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:19:39 Seth just because allplayers can and
should blitz, doesn't make the blitz any more appealing to me
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:20:28 clearclaw Shrugs. 33 is chosen
carefully. With the old system it is surprisingly easy to make 28-32 and not 33+.
Natural harmonics. Done it many times. Not yet clear if the new system has that
property -- very hard to model.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:20:55 clearclaw As a system of excess the
game is naturally inflative. Something has to rip with the balloon pops.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:21:46 clearclaw Curiously this is basically
the same model as the post 7-city surge in Power Grid. Same pattern, same reasons.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:22:08 Seth as a player if I am unexcited about
such a blitz that's no big deal - maybe I'm not the target audience. But from a
design standpoint I don't like it either
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:22:33 Seth hates that about power grid
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:22:43 clearclaw It is the nature of race
games to end with sprints.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:22:50 clearclaw OP at that level is a race
game.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:23:32 clearclaw PG is also a race game.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:25:58 clearclaw What's your design complaint?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:26:47 clearclaw (the pause/lunge is central
to the Funkenschlag/PowerGrid game definition -- in many ways the pause/lunge is
almost the entire game)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:27:05 Seth I'm not sure if I can put it into
exact words... but I feel like that sort of structure is degenerate... being able
to explode into 20+ prestige (the majority of the points in the game) all at once.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:27:08 clearclaw (the rest of the stuff is
just supporting chaff for the pause/lunge)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:27:43 Seth though, players can win at PG by
plunging ahead and making more money even though they get crappy turn order
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:27:58 Seth but it's annoying
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:28:01 clearclaw Players have to build either
the capacity to lunge, or get the other players to do that for them, or both.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:28:14 Seth and sometimes you don't win on the
merit that you were trying ...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:28:27 clearclaw Why annoying? Merit?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:28:58 Seth Merit?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:29:05 Seth not sure what you mean
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:29:23 Seth it's annoying for the person who
has the most cities
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:29:26 clearclaw 02:27:58 ‹Seth› but it's
annoying // 02:28:14 ‹Seth› and sometimes you don't win on the merit that you were
trying ...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:29:33 Seth because they have the worst
position
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:29:52 clearclaw Turn order in PG isn't
everything, not even close.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:30:36 clearclaw Its a game, players make
trade-offs, turn order, cities, money, etc are all trade-offs in Power Grid.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:30:41 Seth oh, I mean that having the most
cities - trying to make more money so you don't have to wait for the lunge I guess
- makes you lose (because people buy up all the resources you need, and it ends up
costing more than the extra income you get)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:31:01 Seth (not always, but sometimes)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:31:05 clearclaw Right, so don't do that.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:31:26 clearclaw The pause/lunge is central to
PG. Ignore it at your peril.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:31:33 Seth right, my main complaint about
playing power grid is that you're encouraged to [i]not[/i] buy houses and power
them
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:31:49 clearclaw The question is what your
attack vector is entering and leaving the pause.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:31:58 clearclaw Why is that a problem?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:32:26 clearclaw Think of it as building a
warchest.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:32:33 Seth maybe it's not a problem, I just
don't like it.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:32:43 clearclaw Very standard business
practice: Don't expend into markets you can't defend.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:33:06 Seth I think it's out of whack, seems
like it's TOO detrimental to be ahead in houses
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:33:24 clearclaw Then don't get ahead in
houses...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:33:29 Seth one friend suggested that houses be
bought in a series of rounds where you buy 1 house at a time
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:33:35 Seth that would help I think
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:33:54 Seth SOMEONE has to be ahead in houses
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:34:09 Seth and if you're trying not to, then
you;re not even getting more income than other players and you're shafted
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:34:41 Seth whereas if you are going to be
ahead in houses then you might as well fucking be ahead in houses so you get
SOMETHING
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:34:44 clearclaw Right, so the players trade-
off income vectors for turn order. Key to the game is measuring and preciting
other player's efficiency at that challenge.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:35:22 clearclaw Right, which makes the low-
house players have to time things *very* carefully.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:35:40 Seth (by "fucking be ahead..." I mean
build as many as you can power)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:35:55 clearclaw Rapidly becomes a nice little
phyrric victory.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:36:21 Seth what does?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:37:13 clearclaw Building too many houses
easily becomes a phyrric victory, as does pausing too long.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:37:35 clearclaw You get ahead to lose the
game.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:37:37 Seth So in OP, if the rule were simply
that both the giver and the recipient got X Presige, you're worried that people
would just trade kula between themselves?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:38:37 Seth ... In your example of maximum 45
prestige.... how much would opponents be gaining?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:40:19 clearclaw If ideally setup, 27 (3*3*3)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:40:33 clearclaw Each other player would
receive 27.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:41:35 clearclaw In practice none of the other
players, except those out of contention, would give reciprocal kula, which would
change the numbers to 36 for the active player and 0 for the others.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:41:57 clearclaw The very first game we played
3 of the 4 players were eliminated for least prestige.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:42:42 clearclaw (in practice unless they felt
they could exceed on their own delivery turns)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:42:56 clearclaw Reciprocals do funny things
to the patterns.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:43:47 clearclaw Umm, not 27,
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:43:58 clearclaw 9
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:44:16 clearclaw 1 gift per island, 3 gifts,
3 prestige per gift.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:44:30 clearclaw Across three players that
makes a total of 27
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:52:31 Seth well, I'll thinik about this as I
fall asleep. which i'm afraid I'm about to do
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:52:56 Seth clearclaw quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 02:56:50 clearclaw me nods
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 03:21:25 clearclaw Got it!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 03:21:57 clearclaw Award VPs to the reciprocal
giver, and only for their reciprocal gift.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 03:22:37 clearclaw Lose the prestige for new
kula for the initial giver.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 03:23:07 clearclaw starts running models.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 03:45:04 Seth so what does the initial giver get?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 03:46:15 Seth goes zzzzzzzzzzzzz
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 05:50:56 seo Hi
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:00:31 Codename sorry, whats up
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:00:53 seo not much. Work, mostly :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:03:11 Codename Work is always a good thing.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:03:14 seo did you have the chance to play
your game?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:03:27 Codename Still finishing up a deck.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:03:37 Codename Takes forever! :)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:03:47 seo hehehe
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:06:23 seo lots of cards = lots of work
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:07:27 Codename Yes, yes it does.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:07:54 Codename But all the preliminary
electroncial playtests have been really fun, so I hope it is worth it.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:08:34 seo cheers to that!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:11:38 seo is that the same game of the fish
and fishing pole card?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:12:13 Codename Yeah
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:12:26 Codename I am just doing text and it
is still taking forever!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:14:13 seo I am always reluctant to design
games that require lots of content for that same reason. The first few cards are
easy, but finishing the deck without feeling like repeating yourself is quite hard
for me.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:14:41 Codename I have been working on this
game for almost a year now.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:14:57 Codename Just sit on it for a while
and revisit it.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:15:11 Codename Lead to some unique cards and
interesting game designs.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:15:53 Codename For example, you are
competing with opponents but every 3 turns a disaster occurs and you must work
together to fix the disaster.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:15:56 seo yeah, some games need a long time
to develop. But there's no point in rushing them.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:16:40 seo What happens if you don't help? you
lose points?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:18:35 Codename It is an interesting dynamic
actually.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:18:54 Codename It rewards everyone, but
rewards the loser the most, so the loser has incentive to help.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:19:14 Codename If failed in punishes the
players, but punishes the winner the most, so they have incentive to help.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:19:44 Codename Usually the incentives are
big enough to erge everyone to help, but not always; which leads to some
interesting tentions in the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:20:11 seo by winner and loser, you mean the
player with more and less points at the moment? Sounds interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:20:25 Codename yes. exactly.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:20:41 Codename So the game is mix between a
coperative and a competetive game.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:27:54 seo Mr. Big Jeep!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:29:38 seo I like that kind of big reward to
the currently losing player and small for the leader, it helps keeping the game
score close
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:32:09 seo I prefer it to even let the losing
player overtake the leader, it can lead to interesting situations. I'm not that
fond of Hoyty-Toity style, with a tie the leader ceiling
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:33:39 seo anyway... I should focus on work
now. Nice talking to you, and good luck with the proto!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:33:57 Codename Thanks, and good luck with
the work think :)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:34:00 seo seo changes his/her nickname to
seo-working
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 06:46:15 Zzzzz Codename quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:17:45 Zzzzz ...
Zzzzz - afk
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:22:14 seo-working ...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:23:03 Gogolski Board version 5 is ready...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:23:22 seo-working :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:26:39 Gogolski http://www.bgdf.com/tiki-
download_userfile.php?fileId=1053
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:27:29 seo-working more water!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:28:27 Gogolski Each water-piece has it's own
space now. Before each space had two water-pieces on it
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:29:16 seo-working are there 4 water wells now?
(de blue-shaded circles)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:29:20 Gogolski It's about the same, but it's
easier to see who build/dug the first piece of canal
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:29:24 seo-working de = the
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:30:00 Gogolski They were chits before, but
now they have a fixed place on the board
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:30:49 Gogolski and they are indeed water
wells. If a player erects an obilisk there, players can produce food there
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:31:41 seo-working and the one who built the
obelisk gets some % of all the food produced there, or asomething?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:32:13 Gogolski if other players produce
food, the owner of the obilisk gets VPs
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:32:44 Gogolski I think they will not be used
much, but I also think to increase the production of food there
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:32:44 seo-working ah, cool
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:33:21 seo-working so you try to control as many
of the wells as possible, so the other players work for you :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:33:23 Gogolski ...and obilisks can be
converted to another faith/owner... héhéhéhé
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:34:05 seo-working I like games were you can
benefit from othere players' efforts
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:34:23 Gogolski Each player has only three
obilisks, and you might want them in the city to gain more influence there
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:35:07 Gogolski increasing food-production
looks like a really good idea...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:36:28 seo-working time to go back to work :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:36:28 Gogolski OK, gotta restart my
computer... somethings wrong with my printer... cu very soon
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:40:33 Seth Gogolski quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 09:40:33 clearclaw Gogolski quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 10:00:33 GamesOnTheBrain joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 10:12:53 clearclaw GamesOnTheBrain quit
(timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 10:14:23 clearclaw Seth quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 10:21:51 clearclaw0 joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 10:24:57 seo-working clearclaw quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 10:59:51 seo-working ..
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 11:06:03 clearclaw0 clearclaw0 changes his/her
nickname to clearclaw
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 11:20:41 Seth .
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 11:56:10 clearclaw ..
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:01:32 Seth ...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:24:34 Zzzzz - afk ...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:25:01 Zzzzz - afk changes his/her
nickname to Zzzzz
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:25:21 Zzzzz chatty chatty ... chatty...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:25:25 Zzzzz ugh
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:28:58 Seth Hi Dave
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:29:58 clearclaw Wealth of Nations of
Landerbahnen tonight I hope.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:30:18 Zzzzz hey...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:30:32 Zzzzz silly chat timed out on me again.
keep missing all the *fun* chat
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:30:54 clearclaw (we have fun chats
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:30:58 clearclaw /)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:31:01 clearclaw ?)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:35:53 Seth lol
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:35:58 Seth yes we do!
http://sjaffee.blogspot.com/2008/05/case-for-aliens.html
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 12:44:46 Seth ... discuss
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:09:36 Seth ... spoiler warning
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:10:00 Seth if you haven't seen Indiana Jones
and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (and want to) then maybe don't read that link!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:21:47 Zzzzz what aliens? really? lol
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:22:21 Zzzzz i have not had a chance to see it
yet, but with out reading your post to *deeply*, I wonder how the aliens are
involved
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:22:35 Zzzzz I sort of glanced over the post
once I realized it might *spoil* it
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:22:53 Seth it spoils the movie pretty much
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:23:00 Seth so apologies
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:23:04 Zzzzz really...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:23:19 Zzzzz it sort of has me asking....
really? how? now I have to see how they worked in aliens
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:23:34 Seth well, I mean the point of the movie
is to watch Indiana Jones be Indiana Jones
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:23:39 Zzzzz like I said I did not read to
deeply once I realized it might spoil something
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:23:48 Seth so it's not that big a spoiler I
guess
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:24:01 Seth there's not a big plot twist or
anything
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:24:05 Zzzzz are the aliens german?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:24:07 Zzzzz :P
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:24:23 Seth lol, no... no germans in this one.
Tkes place in 1957 or somethign like that
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:24:43 Zzzzz ah
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:24:43 Seth according to harrison Ford they
"plumb wore the Nazis out"
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:25:14 Zzzzz i guess I should see it at some
point, but not sure why... beside the history of the series... etc
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:25:32 Zzzzz would you say it was *enteraining*?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:26:27 Zzzzz or enterTaining even?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:26:34 Seth yeah, it's entertainig
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:26:50 Zzzzz ok good enough for me...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:27:05 Zzzzz that is the whole point of a movie,
to veg and and be entertained
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:31:27 Seth it could have been a lot better
though
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:34:16 Rick-Holzgrafe joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:34:33 Rick-Holzgrafe Rick-Holzgrafe changes
his/her nickname to Rick
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:35:23 Rick Saw it this weekend. Entertaining,
yes, and worth the big screen for the special effects.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:35:39 Rick Not as good as numbers 1 and 3,
though.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:37:35 Seth clearly not. I prefer 3 the most, I
know a lot of people prefer 1
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:37:46 Seth but it's better than 2
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:38:11 Rick Nearly anything would be better
than 2 :)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:38:45 Rick I think 1 was really the best, but
3 was [i]excellent[/i].
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:38:59 Rick Sean Connery as Henry Jones,
Senior: just brilliant.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 13:53:07 Zzzzz i need more time for
entertainment!!! ugh I have not played a *real* game in months and months!
Zzzzz-awayangry
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:00:25 Seth if BGG were working right now I'd
link you to the Geeklist I made last night after I had 10 people over for games
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:00:45 Seth I need to put out a donation can -
I went through $30 worth of food yesterday
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:01:41 Zzzzz-awayangry ugh.. I dont want to
read about others playing games :P
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:01:46 Zzzzz-awayangry I WANTTO PLAY GAMES!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:01:51 Zzzzz-awayangry lol
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:02:22 Zzzzz-awayangry Zzzzz-awayangry changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-almostback
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:03:13 Seth Hey, I held a big game day, and
only played 2 games... one of which I didn't really want to play!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:03:15 Seth Cuba :/
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:03:22 Seth and Princes of Florence which was
cool
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:03:24 Seth I like PoF
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:03:29 Seth I'm sour on Cuba
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:05:16 Zzzzz-almostback at least you get to play
something. I have not even read anything about either of those two games, so I dont
even know if I should be sour or not
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:06:15 Rick I like Cuba. I'm a little unsure of
its lasting replay value, though. The strategies seem kind of fixed.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:06:34 Zzzzz-almostback i think I need a gaming
group...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:06:46 Zzzzz-almostback so I at least have a
chance to play each week
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:06:59 Zzzzz-almostback and I honestly do not
care what, though I might if I started playing more games
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:07:02 Rick Seth, what has you "sour" on Cuba?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:07:13 Seth Rick: I liked Cuba at first, but
never as much as I thought I would
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:07:30 Seth When BGG comes back up, look at my
geeklist, it describes it pretty well
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:07:39 Rick ok
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:07:56 Seth wait, there was a thread in the
strategy forum for the game that I replied in which describes it even better
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:11:09 Rick Seth: you'll be pleased (I guess)
to hear that I took another look at Heir and Regent over the weekend.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:11:22 Rick Still pretty formless, but I have a
bunch of new ideas. There might yet be a game in there.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:11:28 Seth cool
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:11:43 Seth here, for your reading pleasure:
http://sedjtroll.blogspot.com/
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:11:55 Seth it's peripherally about railroad
tycoon
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:12:08 Seth I already know there's a game in
there ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:14:02 Seth clearclaw: In OP, is the Aonizing
Decision supposed to be in the route claiming, where you basically "affect the
graph", while the delivery phase is intended to be largely automatic, like the
production phase of Lokomotive Werks?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:14:23 Seth Or are there supposed to be
intreresting decisions in the delivery phase as well?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:15:18 Rick is reading...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:15:21 clearclaw Both are uneasy decisions.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:15:34 clearclaw So is bidding.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:15:53 clearclaw And kahuna placement.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:16:00 Seth because while you do have to decide
which color to deliver, from where, and to where... it seems like there might be a
sort of optimal path, and the point of that phase is simply to find it and do it
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:16:15 clearclaw O still think that the most
entertaining aspect of Kanunsa is that in practice they almost never ever move.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:16:27 Seth bidding is part of route claiming,
(the route claiming phase)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:16:40 clearclaw How much do you bid and in
what currency?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:16:41 Seth how is that entertaining?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:17:16 Seth It seems like bidding/route
claiming is the game, and the delivery phase is almost autopilot
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:17:24 Seth is that the intent?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:17:35 clearclaw What dfo you optimise your
deliveries for? VPs? Prestige? Resources? Nullification of other player's
positions? Incetive-weighting your own paths? etc etc etc
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:17:55 Seth yeah, I suppose there's that
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:18:16 clearclaw There's more of the game in
the network than the deliveries, yes, but the deliveries are a non-trivial portion.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:18:57 Seth Rick: I had intended to link to the
2nd post I guess... Conditional vs Precise planning
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:19:06 Zzzzz-almostback see the first thing I
thought of was to play that game entirely focus on Nullification.... but my guess
is that would be a very losing long term strat
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:19:41 clearclaw Nullification works as it has
the effect of driving traffic towards you. It can be a very viable longer term
strategy.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:20:11 clearclaw is amused by how many don't
put a space between his initials.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:20:41 Zzzzz-almostback yeah but my mind likes
to attempt to focus only on one thing, so I would never vary from Nullification,
and my guess is you need a well balanced plan using most of you stated options to
*succeed*
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:21:20 Zzzzz-almostback i guess I am just not
the usual player
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:21:20 clearclaw Yeah, there's a toolbox of
the above tools and you need to pick the right one at the right time.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:21:28 Zzzzz-almostback and I am sure that
annoys many people
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:21:43 clearclaw Not really tactical as they
all involve 1-3 turn lookahead
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:21:44 Zzzzz-almostback maybe I should not look
for a gaming group lol
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:21:48 clearclaw There are many people like
you.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:22:32 Zzzzz-almostback someone like seth would
be in here " THIS MORON did not play the game right, UGH it was so annoying!"
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:23:09 Zzzzz-almostback sorry seth would never
us *UGH*
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:23:13 Zzzzz-almostback use*
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:23:17 clearclaw You just have to change your
focus to victory and off how-I'm-going-to-win. Then each turn the question is
simple: How do I win? instead of: How do I continue to stick to my plan, which is
now failing, succeed?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:23:42 clearclaw (and make it succeed)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:23:58 clearclaw It is very easy to get stuck
on the jouney rather than the destination though.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:24:05 Zzzzz-almostback yeah... I am just a
moron when it comes to that though. I always want to believe I can win using *any*
plan. obviously not true, but I like to think it is possible
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:24:06 clearclaw does it too.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:24:31 Zzzzz-almostback that is part of what
make playing *fun* for me
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:25:01 Zzzzz-almostback yes I COULD do exactly
what everyone believes is the *best* strat, but maybe there is something better...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:25:28 clearclaw Seth: Planning article: s/tot
he/to the/
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:25:43 Zzzzz-almostback but as discuss in here
before, designers dont often plan for the *wrong* play, they design for the expect
play
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:26:17 Zzzzz-almostback anyways...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:26:43 Zzzzz-almostback hopefully I can get my
game fix at GenCON this year. might be the only time in the near future that I get
to play some games
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:27:18 Seth thx, will fix
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:27:50 Seth there
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:28:03 Seth J C: What do you think of the
planning article?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:28:13 Seth (see, I said J C, not JC)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:28:20 clearclaw There are a few locals who
steadfastly continue to attempt games clearly out of their league. They
effectively act as random players. I like playing with them for the educational
gains: I get to see more of the game system than I would otherwise, and for my own
designs, I get to see what Joe Q Public will likely encounter.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:28:37 Seth I don't liek to add spaces to
initials. I don't type S E J for my inisials, I type SEJ
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:29:01 clearclaw I also get to practice my
patience and tolerance. Again.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:29:38 clearclaw Seth: There's a small
difference between leading initials and a full name contracted to initials. The
latter is iconic.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:30:04 clearclaw More simply I don't care
about JC vs J C, it merely amuses me how many go one way or the other.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:30:12 Seth dave: I don't know about other
designers, but I think most of my designs will handle any type of play (even bad or
unexpected play), but as a designer testing a game, I'd probably get frustrated if
a player were purposely doing somethign they wouldn't do "in real life" if they
were trying to win. and as a player I dislike playing against that
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:30:13 Zzzzz-almostback Zzzzz-almostback changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-afk
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:30:50 Zzzzz-afk seth: my point is since I did
not design your game, how do I know that my *unexpect* plan or choices would not
yield a win?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:31:22 Seth like any game, you don't need to
know how it was designed to be able to determine what is a good decision vs not
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:31:25 Zzzzz-afk the point is other playes
perceive some choices as *wrong* and get annoyed
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:31:47 clearclaw In some games a poor player
will throw the game to another. It is a given property of that design. Puerto
Rico and other left/right binding games do that through binding, Wabash does it
through cost and incentive, various auction games do it through precise bid values
etc.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:32:24 clearclaw Not necessarily a problem,
sometimes a desireably quality (it is multiplayer after all).
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:32:40 Seth I dislike when people play things
like Puerto Rico ad complain that so-and-so "played incorrectly" - becasue those
people are just not adapting to the other players play. but that's different than
somoene doing something clearly suboptimal over and over
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:32:40 Zzzzz-afk all I an pointing out is that
I could do X, Y and Z to win, but what if I could also do Z, A , Q and R?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:32:42 Seth on purpose
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:32:54 Zzzzz-afk is there anything wrong with
that? no, but some might feel it is *not right*
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:33:34 Seth well, if Z, A, Q, and R have no
chance of winning, then there's somethingwrong with that.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:33:37 clearclaw There's a core line: Are the
player's choices consistent with their pursuit of victory given their position etc?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:33:43 Seth but if that's not clear then
there's nothing wrong with that
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:33:49 Zzzzz-afk and what is *suboptimal*?
that is somethign based on what is perceived as the optimal
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:34:13 Seth something that's clearly not as
good as other plays.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:34:23 Zzzzz-afk but I argue that besides the
designer, no player may specificaly know what *optimal* is for a game
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:34:29 Seth sometimes it's not clear, other
times it is
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:34:50 Seth for a given position it can be
clear that one play is better than another
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:35:04 Seth wihtout knowing anything about the
designer's intent
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:35:13 Zzzzz-afk yes over time the concensus
might determine it, but unless you try all paths, you never know
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:35:16 clearclaw Many games, specifically the
games I play, depend on all players continuously pursuing victory for them to
founction well as games. This is largely due to their clean structure as game
theory exercises. Many Ameritrash games don't have that constraint, and that is
due to their much firmer rooting in narrative and emotional sequencing.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:35:38 Seth Like in Railroad tycoon, bidding to
go first then not building and delivering int he first 2 actions... name 1 play
that would be better than that!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:36:07 Zzzzz-afk not sure, sadly I have not
played Railroad Tycoon :(
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:36:44 Seth in RRT, the first player to make a
delivery gets a bonus point, which means a bonus income as well
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:36:55 clearclaw The only time I played RRT I
took first, issued a bunch of share, bought a big train and made one delivery for a
bunch of bonuses.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:36:56 Zzzzz-afk my point is that the game is
designed to be played a *certain* way. if you cannot deviate from that *designed*
path to achieve a victory, every game gets boring
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:37:03 clearclaw I did not make the first
delivery.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:37:18 Seth so paying to go first in the first
round, the only thing that makes sense is to build, then deliver... otherwise
you're payign to go first and notgeting the benefit
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:37:19 clearclaw (delivery with a 4 train)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:37:35 Zzzzz-afk dont get me wrong I still
want to play games, because it is relaxing/entertainment
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:37:43 Zzzzz-afk I just like to have multiple
paths to victory
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:37:47 Seth I'm not saying the 1st player will
win, I'm just saying that there's not a better first turn play if you pay to go
first
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:37:53 clearclaw Almost all of our turns
however had first going for $1.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:38:14 Seth most turns that happens JC
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:38:25 Zzzzz-afk Would going first every turn
yield a victory?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:38:37 Seth which is why I play with a variant
(2 cards come up at a time)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:38:49 Seth and why I thijnk a hybrid RRT/AoS
auction should be used
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:38:50 Rick You're describing the "triple
upgrade" opening. You didn't need to go first for that.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:38:55 clearclaw We had several rounds where
nobody bid...so we house ruled that somebody had to bid or some such silliness.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:39:05 Seth no, going 1st every turn would not
yeld vicory by itself
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:39:19 Seth the rule is that the marker moves
left if noonebids
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:39:21 Zzzzz-afk why not?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:39:23 Rick Turn order rotates left when nobody
bids
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:39:41 Seth why not? Because going first each
round doesn't necessarily help you
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:39:42 clearclaw Rick: I don't recall well but
there seemed like a race. Only the first player was guaranteed to get it. I don't
recall the details.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:39:58 Rick Triple upgrade is an end-run around
the usual opening of build track, make deliveries.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:40:17 clearclaw It was several yers ago when
I played RRT.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:40:24 Rick You give up the opportunity to
stake out your starting territory in return for higher delivery capabilities.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:40:25 Zzzzz-afk would it yield a loss?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:40:38 clearclaw Can you only upgrade one
level per action? That may have been an error on our part.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:40:49 Seth Dave: you would be paying money to
go first, when youwouldn't necessaarily need to
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:41:01 Rick Ah... that would explain it. Yes,
you may upgrade your loco only one level at a time.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:41:05 Seth that may or may not be a problem,
depending on how much you're spending and how much you can afford to spend
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:41:15 clearclaw My recollection is that I
bought a 4-train, built track, then did a delivery.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:41:16 Zzzzz-afk my point is unless someone
tried that path, how do you know it is a suboptimal path?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:41:25 clearclaw Ahh.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:41:28 clearclaw shrugs.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:41:29 Zzzzz-afk and that is where my issue is
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:41:41 Seth ebcause I can tell you even without
playing that if you don't NEED to go first, then paying money to go first is a
waste
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:41:45 Zzzzz-afk I would try that as one
strat, annoy people and loss lol
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:41:50 Seth Buying first turn every round is
not a "strategy"
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:41:54 clearclaw Zzzzz: Not everything has to
be tried. So things can be determined by analysis.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:42:21 Zzzzz-afk yeah I know it can my
analysis, I am just asking because I am pointing out my own playing flaws
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:42:27 Seth In some games it mght be, like in
theyear of the Dragon
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:42:27 Zzzzz-afk be*
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:42:54 clearclaw `gook up
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:42:56 Seth i.e. you're saying you don't do the
analysis? :)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:43:06 Seth that's a racial slur!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:43:20 Zzzzz-afk no I do some analysis, but I
like to prove it during play! lol
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2362654#2362654
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:43:46 Zzzzz-afk sadly my issue is that *if it
is possible* I like to see the results in action
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:43:58 Zzzzz-afk just to see if the analysis
is wrong or not
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:44:33 clearclaw An amusing comment from
Kublacon: You don't need to think the whole thing through and do all the math,
just win it, let's MOVE! (this in a moderately nippily moving game) Response: But
the thinking and the choices and the math are the _FUN_ bit of the game! (and that
wasn't from me)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:44:48 Zzzzz-afk i always play with the intent
to win, sadly the curiousity of doing it the *wrong* way it always in me
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:44:52 clearclaw s/win/wing/
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:45:13 Rick I like "just win it"
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:45:40 clearclaw Hehn.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:46:09 clearclaw It was more amusing as the
(larger conversation) centred on that player attempting to encourage the group into
a play pattern that favoured his natural abilities.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:46:23 clearclaw But of course it wasn't
expressed that way.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:46:35 Zzzzz-afk seth:as a side note my mind
is all about the logical/math of games. so much so that I stopped posting some
forums thread because no one on the site cared about the math/theory/logic
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:46:54 clearclaw does.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:47:04 Zzzzz-afk i over analysis EVERYTHING
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:47:11 Zzzzz-afk just as my wife, it annoys
her too!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:47:13 clearclaw But I have to run, work and
all that rot.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:47:17 Zzzzz-afk ask*
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:47:44 clearclaw I suggest that analysis of
your wife should probably be done by someone else.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:47:51 Zzzzz-afk yeah I really need to afk....
work to be done before I can go home
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:47:59 Zzzzz-afk ouch
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:47:59 Seth JC: which game was that quote
about?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:48:07 Zzzzz-afk lol
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:48:09 clearclaw LW
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:48:56 clearclaw Game with Daniel Barnes,
Aliza Panitz, Me, Rich ForGetHisName, and Paul MrBlind18XXPlayer
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:49:23 clearclaw Playing LW with a blind man
was entertaining. So was playing 18XX with him. He's very sharp.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:50:43 Seth yeah, he impresses me, thoguh I
think I wouldn't want to play with him
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:50:51 Seth character flaw of mine Iguess
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:51:00 Seth but he keeps very good track of
things!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:51:11 Seth is he completely blind?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:51:45 Seth Rick: that link above is to the
cuba stuff
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:52:17 Seth And here's the session report:
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:52:40 Rick me is lurking and working
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:52:58 Seth Codename quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:53:04 Rick mutters 'buggrit, missed the slash
key'
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:54:00 Seth berb
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:57:57 Rick Never seen anyone hoard water.
We've never run out of cubes.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:58:01 seo-working Seth quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:58:21 Rick I will guess (without support) that
it wouldn't win if the subsidy is limited as it's supposed to be.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 14:58:41 Rick You'd need to spend some of the
water to stay competitive.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:15:59 Zzzzz-afk later time to go home and
work again
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:16:02 Zzzzz-afk Zzzzz-afk quit
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:18:09 Seth just traded Mississippi Queen, Il
Principe, Niagara, and Andromeda for Brass, Container, and Medici Vs Strossi
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:18:14 Seth with no shipping
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:18:19 Seth i.e. in town
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:18:47 Seth Rick: yeah, if it's limited to 7
that would kill that strategy
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:18:50 Seth Hi Scott
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:19:36 doho123 hello
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:22:40 Seth What's new?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:22:53 Seth hows the auto generated info Epic
Solo game coming?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:23:02 doho123 in Reno
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:23:16 doho123 the cards are getting more
complex
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:23:30 Seth Oh? say "hi" to Ajax for me
(William Bussick)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:23:46 Seth howso re: complex
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:24:08 doho123 but over the weekend I was
busy screwing around with the hidden info/cards with windows stuff re-themeing it
as Darke's Searching for Shipwrecks
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:26:03 doho123 http://www.bgdf.com/tiki-
download_userfile.php?fileId=1054
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:27:46 Seth who
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:27:47 Seth a
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:27:55 Seth what's all that?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:28:09 doho123 creature creation stuff
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:28:13 doho123 quest creation stuff
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:34:55 clearclaw2 clearclaw2 quit
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:40:03 doho123 test
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:42:09 Seth F5 if you need to
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:42:14 Seth I'm not lagging at all right now
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:51:57 Rick Seth: Good trades, except maybe M
vs. S -- we didn't like that one.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:52:11 Seth it was a throw in
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:52:18 Rick I do like Miss. Queen, but it's
certainly not a "gamer's game." It's just cute.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:52:22 Seth I don't think I'll play it much
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:52:38 Seth I liked it at first, but I havent
played it in forever
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:54:06 clearclaw2 Played Deluxe Camping?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:58:33 Seth never heard of it
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:58:36 Seth .me doesn't like camping
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:59:07 clearclaw2 It is camping in the RV
sense.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:59:13 Rick .me neither
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 15:59:25 clearclaw2 nasty little 2P area control
game, possibly Okay 3P
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:00:54 clearclaw2
http://www.printfection.com/retro-future Neat T-shirts
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:01:42 Seth You linked that before
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:01:46 Seth what's that from?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:02:44 clearclaw2 Sitting in my notes file.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:02:52 clearclaw2 Either of you read The Edge?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:03:09 Seth nope
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:04:48 clearclaw2 http://www.edge.org/ Almost
invariably worth reading.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:05:33 clearclaw2 I'm reading Freeman Dyson's
amusingly accurate polemic against the current cult of global warming.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:05:55 clearclaw2 suspects that's he's right,
and that it doesn't matter.
http://www.todayandtomorrow.net/2008/06/02/magnetic-movie/ Whoa
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:25:45 doho123 hmm, Cambridge Games Factory
just emailed me
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:25:58 Seth about OP?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:28:00 doho123 designer contract
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:39:23 Seth oh, heh, I somehow thought JC said
"hmm, Cambridge Games Factory just emailed me"
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:39:34 Seth for the Mwahaha game?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:39:38 Seth (ha ha)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:40:28 Seth or the "Cash and Death Ray" game
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:48:23 clearclaw2 watched Mwhhahhaha being
played on Saturday. They entire gorup got half way through and called the game, to
be shelved permanently without hope of return
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:48:47 Seth seems like it takes longer than it
should
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:48:50 clearclaw2 I was lucky and played 1825
Unit 3 instead.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:49:06 Seth I never watched it being played,
but a group played it at game night and it seemed to go forever
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:49:32 Seth I really enjoyed my game of Princes
last night
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:49:43 Seth I really didn't super-enjoy cuba :/
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:49:54 Seth I will be able to play Brass,
probably tomorrow night
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:50:16 Seth I hope I remember how, because the
rulebook is little help
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2362660#2362660 This man just doesn't
get it. By 8 games he should be damned familiar and struggling for
competitiveness.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:51:08 clearclaw2 I'm hoping for Wealth of
Nations or Landerbahnen tonight.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:51:11 clearclaw2 WoN is the more likely.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:51:32 Seth I want to play that WoN as well
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:51:46 Seth maybe I'll buy that, now that I
don't have to buy Container or Brass
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:51:51 Seth Hope it's worth it
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:52:24 Seth still not in stock at Thoughthammer
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:52:33 Seth and it's $35
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:52:56 clearclaw2 I strongly suspect that WoN
is degenerate and almost absent as a game outside of the baodplay/geometry aspect.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:52:59 doho123 ha, I couldn't even remember
the name of the game I sent them
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:53:15 doho123 well, the current name. I
think it was "The World is Mine"
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:53:17 clearclaw2 s/baodplay/boardplay/
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:53:29 clearclaw2 Cambridge approached me as
well.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:54:04 clearclaw2 I'm looking forward to
demonstrating that WoN is broken.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:54:05 Rick feels left out.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:54:22 Rick Nobody approached /me/. :drizzle:
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:54:34 clearclaw2 I'm not convinced that CGF
are the best small publisher to be approached be.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:54:51 clearclaw2 This might explain why I've
not responded to them N months later.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:54:51 Rick also can't game tonight. Fencing
class instead.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:55:00 doho123 well, they aren't small. they
are tiny.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 16:55:06 clearclaw2 will game tonight and
tomorrow night and maybe Wednesday night.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:00:02 clearclaw2 I do wish they wound't use
such small clamshell cases -- the retailers hate it.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:00:22 clearclaw2 says this as a guy with 150
games in clamsell cases in his vestibule.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:01:15 doho123 150!??
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:03:05 clearclaw2 Pampas Railroads reprint.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:03:16 clearclaw2 I get to ship them out thsi
week
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:15:22 Seth ‹Rick› Nobody approached /me/. <-
except Asmodee
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:16:07 clearclaw2 nominates Rick and Sd for SdJ
2009. Couldn't happen to a nicer fellow...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:16:07 Rick Oh, well, [i]them.[/i] ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:16:12 Seth got random spam in [i]french[/i]
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:16:34 Seth Yahoo is the [i]worst[/i]
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:17:10 Rick Thank you, J. C. Granted you don't
really care about the SdJ, I feel I should nevertheless point out that you've never
[i]played[/i] SD!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:17:11 clearclaw2 Who wants to bet on the theme
getting changed?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:17:42 clearclaw2 Rick: I'm following the long
vaunted BGG tradition of rating games I've never played!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:17:51 Rick Theme, schmeme. Show me my name on
a box and you can theme it any way you like!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:18:09 clearclaw2 The next step in my evolution
is rating games I've never seen, then never heard of, then know nothing about...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:18:28 Rick Now you're getting into the spirit.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:20:03 clearclaw2 I figure ultimately I'm just
going to do a UPDATE rating=1 WHERE gameid!=4098 on all of BGG one of these days,
tho mayhap I should pick a better game to exclude.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:21:07 Rick Thought you'd burned out on AoS?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:21:11 Seth doho123 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:22:12 clearclaw2 Just took it out of rotation
about a year ago. Not sure if burnt out. I'm naturally prone to monomaniac
single-focus. My current target at the Riding Series.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:22:20 Rick Seth: I get spam in Cyrillic and (I
guess) Chinese, Japanese, and Korean.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:23:24 clearclaw2 My SPAM filters are too good.
I feel left out.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:23:49 Rick You're welcome to some of mine, if
you like. :p
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:23:59 clearclaw2 gets no more than 2-5 a day.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:24:15 Rick I have good filters but I feel I
have to review the filtered stuff anyway...
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:24:30 clearclaw2 Well, 2-5 that get through.
I get sent around 2.5K per day according to my filters.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:24:32 Rick I run an Internet-based business
and false positives are bad.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:24:39 clearclaw2 I don't review.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:24:51 clearclaw2 understands fale positives
very well.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:25:10 Rick I can skim pretty fast.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:25:12 clearclaw2 s/fale/false/
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:25:29 clearclaw2 At 2.5K+ per day it just
isn't worth it to me.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:25:48 clearclaw2 I leave the errors in the
realm of noise.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:26:15 Rick (sigh) Customers aren't noise, if
you want to stay in business.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:26:28 Rick But the day is coming when I won't
be able to keep up anyway.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:27:14 clearclaw2 I score spam. Very high
scores are simply deleted unseen. Middle scores get run through a
challenge/response. Low scores get read. So far in ~6 years I've only had one
non-spam go through the CR and three spammers go through the CR.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:27:27 clearclaw2 You're in a clearly different
position than me.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:27:55 Rick If I was just a Private Citizen you
bet I'd let the filters ashcan that stuff for me.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:28:41 clearclaw2 I also graylist -- that
knocks out a LOT (highly recommended -- and use plus addresses heavily.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:28:49 clearclaw2 None of my plus addresses
ever get spammed.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:29:43 clearclaw2 Graylisting seems like a
basic default for 'net operations these days.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:30:35 clearclaw2 And has he benefit of being
safe for your business.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:31:28 Seth what's a greylist and what's a plus
address?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greylisting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus_addressing#Plus_.28or_Minus.29_addressing
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:33:24 Seth I was going to post to my game club
and see if anyone wanted in on a thoughthammer order, but that seems a bad plan
since we just this week got a call to order stuff from the FLGS where we play, at
full price, so that they can stay in business
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:33:46 clearclaw2 Call from whom?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:33:57 clearclaw2 (and one order is not going
to keep them in business)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:45:47 Rick .
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:46:30 Seth call from the pres of he club
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:48:11 Seth and one order won't keep tem in
business, but occasional constant orders wouldn't hurt I guess
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:48:14 Seth is the theory
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:51:55 Rick Time to wind it up. See y'all in
the funny papers.
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 17:52:22 clearclaw2 /me waves belatedly
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 18:42:23 Zzzzz Seth quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 19:02:05 seo-working seo-working quit
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 19:29:02 cocadieta joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 19:29:56 cocadieta Evening. Anyone around?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 19:54:11 Zzzzz not really, more or less afk
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 19:59:30 cocadieta Gooooodnight!
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 20:03:00 Zzzzz gn
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 20:03:31 clearclaw2 cocadieta quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 21:16:31 clearclaw2 Zzzzz quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 22:06:19 clearclaw2 doho123 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 22:20:44 kj howdy anyone?
ch_SpielTalk! 02/06/2008 22:32:41 clearclaw2 kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 03:47:36 seo-working joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 09:13:46 Zzzzz wow scott really likes to join
things, just to quit!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 09:13:59 Zzzzz i take it that PC is working
*perfectly* for him
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 09:59:19 seo LOL
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:08:33 Zzzzz how are you today seo?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:21:38 seo still working :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:22:21 seo too much work, too little time
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:22:33 seo gotta go (once again)
seo-working
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:34:52 Zzzzz so sad... bye
Zzzzz-workingtoo
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:36:09 Seth goes to work
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:36:15 Seth later and later each day...
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:37:02 Zzzzz-workingtoo sounds like a bad long
term plan... .at some point you will have to choose between game night and work!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:57:27 Seth I played Power Grid last night
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:57:31 Seth I hate it less than I used to
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:57:39 Seth still not my favorite game
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:57:41 Seth or type of game
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:57:44 Seth (I won)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 10:59:41 clearclaw Played Wealth of Nations (won
with more than 2x the next player's score) and David&Goliath (leading until last
two hands by healthy margin, then came second due to a pair of really crappy hands
-- what can you do when 3/4 of your cards are above 10?)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:00:18 clearclaw The WoN result is about as
expected when an experienced players plays with newbies.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:00:43 Seth experience runs away with it?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:00:50 Seth Is that bad? Seems a lot of games
are like that
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:00:59 clearclaw It was kinda obvious when I
two banks going (6 tiles) and was popping over $180 per turn just for them.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:01:09 Seth gotta train up a group so you can
play "for real" (experience all around)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:01:14 clearclaw A single player should never
ever get two banks.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:01:20 Seth I have no idea what that means
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:01:34 clearclaw nods. Simply indicates a
game with a learning curve.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:02:12 clearclaw Banks are extraordinarily
expensive tiles. There are only 9 of them in the game. I built 6 of them...
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:02:14 Seth In Power grid, the turn somoene hit
7 cities I stayed at 6, going like 3rd I built 5 cities for pretty cheap relatively
speaking in the next round putting me at ll
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:02:37 Seth then the following round I bought a
power plant that could power 4, puting my total capactity up to 13
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:02:39 clearclaw Banks produce $30 per
complete circle.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:02:44 Seth and built 4 houses to end the game
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:02:47 Seth I could power 13
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:02:55 Seth noone else [i]owned[/i] 13 cities
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:03:32 Seth (though several of them could power
16 or more
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:10:24 Seth GAH!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:10:40 Seth little typo errors in plans, gotta
re-print the whole sheet... grr
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:11:45 clearclaw (pushups)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:15:28 Seth So I made that trade last night
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:15:31 Seth picked up the games
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:15:37 Seth will likely play Brass tonight
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:16:41 clearclaw I didn't see the trade.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:17:12 clearclaw I'm heading for the same two
games tonight: Landerbahnen or Wealth of Nations (in that order)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:17:32 Seth I traded Mississippi Queen,
Andromeda, Niagara, and Il Principe for Brass, Container, and Medici vs Strossi
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:17:56 clearclaw Ahh. Seems like a fair
trade.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:18:11 Seth Landerbahnen does not appear to be
on BGG
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:18:22 Seth fair enough
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:18:41 Seth and I haven't touched any of the
games I traded away in several years
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:18:51 Seth didn't like Il Principe
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:19:06 Seth Mississippi got old after a couple
plays
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:19:25 Seth Liked Andromeda, traded for it,
haven't played it since I got it
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:19:26 clearclaw The near constant refrain in
last night's WoN game to one player was a mix of either, "Shut up!" or "Stop moving
your lips, use the voices inside your head!"
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/12124 Landerbahnen (I have the expansion
too)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:24:24 clearclaw Said player not only thought
out loud, if you call repetitively doing simple arithmetic thinking, but also
endlessly tried to trade and trade and trade even after he'd been turned down
multiply for the trade he was proposing.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:25:03 clearclaw "No, I won't sell you a red."
"What about if I..." "No.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:25:58 clearclaw " "How about if I..." "No,
I'm not selling red." How about I sell you one of my loans and you give me a
red..." "No, shut up." "I'll buy a red from you for..."
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:34:38 Zzzzz-workingtoo ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/science/03fest.html?
_r=1&ref=science&oref=slogin
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:47:23 Seth Did you see Jim and Shea's comments
on the planning post? http://sedjtroll.blogspot.com/2008/05/precise-planning-vs-
conditional.html
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:48:29 Seth I know a guy that 'thinks out loud'
like that
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:48:42 Seth he came to my game day the other
day (he wasn't specifically invited)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:49:05 Seth evidently through an entire game of
Winds of Plunder he spoke nonstop
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:49:11 clearclaw This chap normally doesn't.
I'm not sure why he was yesterday.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:49:27 Seth fortunately for me he played ItYotD
and not PoF when I finally got to play
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:51:14 Seth So far only 1 reply for Brass
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 11:53:41 Seth OMG... did I say "Ra for example is
a perfect example" ? Bah
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 12:07:00 clearclaw ?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 12:07:17 clearclaw reads
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 12:41:39 Seth Hi Scott
sej-out-to-lunch
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 12:58:39 sej-out-to-lunch doho123 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 13:34:10 Zzzzz-workingtoo ...
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 13:34:18 Zzzzz-workingtoo Zzzzz-workingtoo changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-meeting
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 14:02:33 seo-working maybe Scott is in Reno
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 14:02:58 seo-working last time he was in Reno he
kept joining&quitting all the time
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 14:36:53 clearclaw2 should not have had wine with
his sandwich at lunch
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 14:37:08 clearclaw2 This work thing is getting in
the way of my gaming. There should be a law.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:14:11 Zzzzz-meeting agreed!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:32:39 kj greetings ...
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:33:53 Zzzzz-meeting hey...
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:34:01 Zzzzz-meeting Zzzzz-meeting changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-workingstill
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:36:02 doho123 is in Reno
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:38:03 kj Reno! cool
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:38:14 kj was there a couple months ago
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:38:46 kj Question for anyone... Ever get
headaches from using 3M 77 spray glue?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:39:05 kj My wife did after I used it
OUTSIDE. Coincidence I'm hoping.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:39:28 doho123 spray glue can be nasty
sometimes
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:40:06 kj worked nicely I should say - I
glued three pieces of 110# stock together to make tiles.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:40:25 kj A bit thin but close, and fairly
rigid.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:41:26 sej-out-to-lunch I use the Xyron
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:41:28 sej-out-to-lunch Costs more I guess
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:41:31 sej-out-to-lunch but easier and less mess
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:41:39 sej-out-to-lunch sej-out-to-lunch changes
his/her nickname to sej-back-from-lunch
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:41:45 sej-back-from-lunch sej-back-from-
lunch changes his/her nickname to Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:41:54 doho123 My prefered method is sticky
back inkjet printer paper and illustration board.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:42:18 Seth also nice
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:42:26 kj hey Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:42:32 Seth Hi
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:43:11 kj Yeah I hear that works nice... How
much does a sheet of labels run per?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:43:28 doho123 not too bad, actually.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:43:52 doho123 $25 or $30 for 100 sheets
maybe?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:44:07 doho123 it's been a while since I
bought some
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:44:21 kj not too bad - trying to remember
what I paid for 250 sheets of stock - $10 I think
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 15:44:53 kj a bit bummed I found a very similar
game to my new tile game but it *is* fairly simple so I shouldn't be surprised. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:02:50 Seth which similar game did you find?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:05:32 kj
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/10005 is closest I think.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:05:50 kj Though mine does have some extra
features.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:07:18 Seth whoa, Scott:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/316598
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:09:21 Zzzzz-workingstill ..
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:09:27 doho123 it just appears that the guy
who did fancy artwork didn't update the data to the latest card set
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:09:32 doho123 no big deal
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:09:37 clearclaw2 I used Super 77 a fair bit.
Not observed nausea.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:10:04 Seth Scott: that thy're making fancy
artwork for your game is cool
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:10:09 clearclaw2 But I don't laminate with it
-- use picture matte everywhere.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:10:25 clearclaw2 I've never bothered using
lables for pasteups.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:12:01 Zzzzz-workingstill ok time to head
home to the 2nd job... maybe I can come chat tonight and annoy everyone with my
pointless words!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:12:18 Zzzzz-workingstill Zzzzz-workingstill
changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-nothere
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:12:33 Zzzzz-nothere Zzzzz-nothere changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-not-here
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:12:35 clearclaw2 messes with printing mailing
lables.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:13:59 kj clear - thanks
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:14:46 kj what do you mean by "picture
matte"?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:14:48 kj a coating?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:15:30 kj ... lag ...
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:22:31 Zzzzz-not-here kj quit (timeout)
Zzzzz-but-here
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:40:00 kj test...
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:45:59 kj how do you change your nick on here
anyway?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:46:24 kj doho123 quit (timeout)
Like this
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:47:28 Like this Like this changes his/her
nickname to Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:47:56 kj kj changes his/her nickname to Like
that
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:48:01 Like that ah
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:48:29 Like that Like that changes his/her
nickname to kjhg
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:48:39 kjhg kjhg changes his/her nickname to kj
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:49:26 kj well, [i]that[/i] was exciting.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:53:45 seo-working an international law!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:54:53 doho123 sıɥʇ ǝʞıl ǝqʎɐɯ ɹo
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:55:56 seo-working wow! chat lag :-( I meant a
law against work as suggested by JC about an hour ago, right before my chat froze
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:56:33 doho123 has Darke been on recently?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:56:58 seo-working haven't seen him all day
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:57:15 seo-working I saw YOU joining and
quitting all day, though
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:57:22 doho123 well, if you see him around,
tell him I'm stealing his Shipwreck idea
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:57:46 doho123 yeah, RenoDoho internet is a
very touchy situation
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:58:36 seo-working ah, I told Seth my guess was
you were in Reno!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:59:03 seo-working I'll let Darke know about
your game robbery activities
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:59:26 doho123 excellent
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:59:38 seo-working stealing it for a game-game
or work-game?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 16:59:45 doho123 game-game
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:00:13 doho123 I'm taking the haunted
house/hidden information system with the cut out windows and applying it to
searching for sunken ships
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:00:19 seo-working maybe you can have him work
for you, like Seth!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:01:03 doho123 well, I figure I'll give it
to Seth when I'm done with version 1.0, then he'll add a bunch of stuff, submit it
to a contest, and then get all grouchy about it's finish.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:01:18 seo-working LOL
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:01:42 doho123 and then I'll just move on to
something, and the circle of life begins anew.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:02:30 Seth I looked at a kids store today for
mini-alphabet blocks
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:02:38 seo-working sounds good
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:02:41 Seth the internet site had 5/8" ones
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:02:59 doho123 I want HUGE letter blocks.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:03:01 Seth I think blank dice or cubes with
stickers might be easiest
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:03:09 Seth they have to fit on the baord!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:03:20 Seth I ALWAYS typo "baord" like that :(
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:03:32 doho123 we'll make a much larger
board
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:03:42 clearclaw2 buys a copy of Kings &
Castles: http://boardgamegeek.com/game/25693
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:03:42 Seth Life Size!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:03:44 Seth :)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:03:50 clearclaw2 Yay, I now own a tea towel
game.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:04:12 clearclaw2 I guess that means that
Wayfinder is my neoprene mousepat game.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:04:34 seo-working I think I'll have an early
dinner, go to bed afterwards, and get up around 4:00am to work :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:04:35 doho123 oooh, a boardgame based on
artwork on mousepads. hmmmmm....
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:06:18 clearclaw2 wayfinder uses a neoprene mat
for the board. Very rubbers and bouncy. Retailers hate it because it is a tube
game. Neat game though and pleasingly dense in my game crate (not much air in the
tube).
http://boardgamegeek.com/game/23284
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:06:52 clearclaw2 But also yet another game I
like far more than the locals.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:07:38 clearclaw2 (which may have something to
do with the fact that I grok the game far better than the locals I play with, so I
always win by a large margin (3x their score in not unheard of))
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:19:43 doho123 kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:26:45 clearclaw2 scary man
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:46:04 Seth fun discussion in my blog
comments :)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:46:05 Seth Hi rick
http://sedjtroll.blogspot.com/2008/05/precise-planning-vs-conditional.html
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:49:35 Rick Read it the other day -- basically
agree
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:50:05 Rick I prefer luck-first-then-decide
rather than the opposite
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:50:17 Rick I'm a control freak
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:51:10 Seth the discussion in comments are all
from today
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:51:16 Seth (or, most)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:51:42 clearclaw2 I'm surprised at Jim's
comments. He's not thought through his statements.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:58:41 Seth how do you mean?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:58:53 doho123 posts some porn links in the
comments section
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:59:12 Rick It's hard to defend chaos as
fundamentally different from randomness. I believe it is, and I like the way you
(Seth) expressed it.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:59:30 Rick But it's easy for someone to say "I
don't know what you're going to do, so you're basically random."
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 17:59:55 Seth My purpose for the post in the
first place wasn't to talk about chaos, I think I derailed myself by mentioning it
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:00:03 Rick Someone pointed out that
inexperienced players are more random than experienced ones. I'm sure that's a
factor.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:00:23 Seth I would argue that tht's not random
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:00:29 Seth but that's neither here nor there
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:00:51 clearclaw2 I don't see them as strictly
objectively different. Subjectively, yes. Objectively they are two probability
fields, one which can be calculated directly, and the other of which is informed by
personal human perceptions and familiarity (ie organics).
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:00:55 Seth I was hoping to get more discussion
of Precise vs Conditional planning, but the discussion oof Chaos vs Chance is nice
too
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:01:45 clearclaw2 But they both remain
variously simple probability fields. merely the method of determining your
prediction for both varies in terms of inputs.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:01:50 Seth JC: Yeah, I think I hinted at that
when I conceeded "It could be that I just see a higher accuracy of predicting Chaos
than Chance"
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:02:59 Rick I could also argue that there's
more skill involved in predicting chaos... at least compared to a simple
randomizer.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:03:06 clearclaw2 Walter, not to harp on him,
frequently seems random. He says he's random. He's not, he's actualyl fairly
easily to predict: just assume that he's oerwhelmed by the game and start popping
your stacks as soon as a decision becomes non-trivial.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:03:41 clearclaw2 Rick: The intangibles involve
more human factors and as humans we tend to value/weight those abilities more
highly. I'm not convinced that they're inherently more difficult.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:04:20 Seth "popping your stacks"?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:04:46 Rick Well, I hedged. :) A d6 takes no
skill to "predict": each result is gonna be 1 in 6. People are more complex.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:05:06 Rick A fistful of d-various is harder to
predict.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:05:29 clearclaw2 Programmer term. Just dump
the decision tree once it becomes non-trivial. Then either pick the easiest/most-
obvious remaining tree or the one most consistent with earlier plans which can no
longer be supported.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:05:57 clearclaw2 nods fistfuls. I find
fistfuls of faces and shirts quite hard to predict.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:09:19 Rick Seth: you put new things on the top
of a stack. You pull old things off the top, too. So a stack is "first-in, last-
out".
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:09:21 Rick Popping the stack means pulling
things off the top and discarding them because they're no longer needed or
interesting.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:09:22 Rick .
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:10:21 Rick Wow, nasty lag. Anyway time for me
to truck on outta here.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:10:52 Rick I'll mention that I mailed off SD
to Asmodee today, and I promise to shut up about it for a while now. It's out of my
hands until further notice.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:11:03 Rick G'day all.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:11:43 clearclaw2 Zzzzz-but-here quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:25:50 Zzzzz-but-here ...
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:37:27 Seth So should I order
Aquaretto/StoneAge/Merchants of Amsterdam?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:37:38 Seth How many new games do I need at a
time?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:37:46 doho123 apparently too many!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:37:57 doho123 I thought you hated Aquaretto
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:38:00 Seth I just got brass and Container
(though I dunno if container counts as "new")
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:38:08 Seth I'm aggravated by Aquaretto
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:38:22 Seth so that's decent enough reason to
not get it
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:38:45 Seth And I could do without stone Age
Iguess
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:38:51 Seth someone else is likely to get it
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:38:59 Seth esp if it wins SdJ - when's that
announced?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:39:38 doho123 isn't that in the fall or
something
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:39:41 Seth So Merchants is the only one I
really want
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:40:52 doho123 yay! another merchant game!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:42:10 Seth it's from 2000
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:42:17 Seth it's area control
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:42:30 Seth with like 12 different areas, and
you gain control in 2 of them at a time
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:42:37 Seth rather you gain influence in 2 of
them at a time
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:43:04 Seth And there's a dutch auction, but
some people don't bother with that and just play with a regular auction
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:43:44 Seth on your turn you draw 3 cards - one
you keep and use yourself, one you auction off, and one you trash
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:44:22 Seth the cards tell you which 2 zones
you get influence in
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:44:50 clearclaw2 MoA is not improved by losing
the Dutch Auction.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:44:51 Seth it's always you get 1 specific spot
in one zone and a choice of spots in the other zone
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:44:53 Zzzzz-but-here doho123 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:45:00 Seth is it worsened?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:45:27 clearclaw2 The trick with MoA is that
the value of any item is easily calculable, but many don't, so they overbid which
makes the player that never bids win by dfault.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:45:33 clearclaw2 yes, worse.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:46:21 clearclaw2 If the players do know the
E(v) then the core of the game is the quiver to get something for less than e(v) as
all players wait for someone else to start moving and they try to duck in first.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:46:30 clearclaw2 Not really PYL, but a form of
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/31047/comment/833082#comment833082
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:47:29 clearclaw2 (not about MoA)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:47:37 clearclaw2 But droll
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:48:41 Seth when I played MoA we didn't slap
the clock, we called out the price as soon as it got there (and we wanted to buy
it)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:49:16 clearclaw2 Odd. That removes
consdierable tension
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:50:23 Seth does it? It's the same thing, but
verbal instead of physical
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:50:47 Seth it still counts down, and you can't
bid "100" until it gets down to 100
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:51:46 clearclaw2 And if two speak
simultaneously, how do you arbitrate? When is a value legal, when the clock hits
it or if the clock hits there by the end of the soud? And how do you detect the
twitch of someone about to bid? etc etc etc
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:52:03 clearclaw2 Grossly exploitable and far
less interesting.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:52:46 clearclaw2 Might as well just say
"now!", in which case how do you determine what value that was? Might as well hit
the clock unambiguous values.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:53:12 Seth detecting the twitch I don't htink
should enter into the equation... I would say you cannot start to bid until the
arrow crosses the line. In the slap version there can be similar simultaneous slaps
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:53:24 Zzzzz-but-here you should buy pocket
civ
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:53:32 Zzzzz-but-here whoa...
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:53:36 Zzzzz-but-here my chat was WAY behind
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:53:41 Seth yes, could say "now" - and the
value should be fairly easy to see
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:53:53 Seth but I guess that's why we said the
number
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:53:57 Seth it was never ambiguous
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:54:00 Seth close a couple times
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:54:39 Seth and after playing Brain Freeze with
that heavy duty chess clock, I can imagine about how long that plastic thing would
last with some people
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:54:55 Seth some people are [i]not graceful[/i]
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:55:14 Seth JC: you didn't play Brain Freeze,
or Terra Prime... I barely got you to try WT!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:55:19 clearclaw2 We play that the auctioneed
holds the clock in his hand above the board.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:55:37 Seth rules Q: is the auctioneer allowed
to bid on his own lot?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:55:43 clearclaw2 The height of the clock above
the baord provides resilience and shock absorbption.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:55:54 clearclaw2 Of course he may bid.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:56:01 Seth that sounds like an accident
waiting to happen!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:56:17 clearclaw2 RGG has promised free
replacement clocks IIRC.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:56:36 clearclaw2 If there's an accident you
know who to blame.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:56:47 clearclaw2 As they know that, they
ensure that there are no accidents.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:56:56 Seth and it seems like it would put the
auctioneer at a physical disadvantage. Also seems easy for any given player to be
at a disadvantage
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:56:59 clearclaw2 Ta da!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:57:08 clearclaw2 How so?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:57:31 clearclaw2 You only hit the clock with
one hand. If you're the auctioneer the other hand is your bidding hand
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:57:37 Seth the clock isn't stationary, may not
be reachable by some as easily as by others
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:57:57 clearclaw2 Tjhat's a problemof the
table, not the clockj.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:58:28 Seth if you're holding the clock and you
want to hit it, and someone else wants to simultaneously, seems easy to "cheat'
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:58:29 clearclaw2 And the clock should be
stationary for all intents and purposes, unless the auctioneer is drunk -- in which
case why are you playing with them?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 18:59:19 Seth that it's not stationary isn't the
table's fault, and in being not stationary, the inequity in reaching could change
over time
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:00:04 clearclaw2 Stationary from auction to
auction? Just insist that the auctioneer hold it over the centre of the board/same
place each time.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:00:17 clearclaw2 If a player can't reach the
centre of the baord that's a fault of the board placement.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:00:31 clearclaw2 (or the location selected for
clock-holding).
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:00:31 Seth overzealous slap - maybe not even
fast enough to win he auction, could mess up the baord
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:01:07 clearclaw2 Right, and your players know
that and know they'll clearly be to blame and so don't do that.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:01:23 clearclaw2 decapitate a few players and
most problems cease.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:01:29 Seth some players are more graceful than
others...
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:01:45 clearclaw2 Then just hold the clock
higher.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:02:02 clearclaw2 Put it above your head if you
feel that eager.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:02:31 clearclaw2 Point is that clock slapping
contains game aspects which are not present in other forms.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:02:34 Seth higher is way worse with regard to
reading/reaching
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:02:44 clearclaw2 Wahh!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:02:51 clearclaw2 Crybabies...
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:02:52 Seth why are we arguing over this? Seems
like we've got much better things to argua about
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:03:10 clearclaw2 Sure. I'm going to play
games. Tootles!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:03:30 Seth see you
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:03:41 Seth wishes we'd have gotten to finish
that game of OP
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:05:36 clearclaw2 Currently the prestige market
seems too rich. I'l be running more models over the next days.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:05:42 clearclaw2 leaves
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:07:40 Seth Not sure what that means "too rich"
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:07:48 Seth like people get too much prestige?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:08:01 Seth big deal - as long as everybody
gets too much prestige
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:08:12 Seth too easy to get prestige/
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:08:14 Seth too hard?
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:08:22 Seth as long as it's the same for
everyone
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:08:37 Seth I personlaly think it's too easy,
in that you get a big flood at once.
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:09:07 Seth I was unenthusiastic about my Power
grid win last night. I surged from 6->11 houses, then from 11->15 to end the game
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:09:15 Seth 2 turns straight
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:09:24 Seth it was the first turn of phase 3
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:09:40 Seth no wait, it wasn't even that, stage
three card came up, but we didn't even get to stage three
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:10:08 Seth Seems like when you DO get to stage
3, there's only a turn or 2 and then the game ends
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:10:21 Seth anticlimactic
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:17:18 Seth well, time to go home and maybe
piece together OP parts until Brass time!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:17:20 Seth g'night
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:21:21 Zzzzz-but-here Seth quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 19:36:33 Zzzzz-but-here .
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 21:11:30 rKnizia joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 21:15:57 clearclaw2 rKnizia quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 21:40:07 Zzzzz-but-here ..
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 21:40:19 Zzzzz-but-here Zzzzz-but-here changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-sleeping...
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 22:25:51 NuYawkDawg joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 03/06/2008 22:31:18 clearclaw2 NuYawkDawg quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:23:17 Seth wins brass, but then, I'm the only
one who'd played before, so I had a little bit of advantage
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:29:13 clearclaw won Container tonight
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:29:22 clearclaw Err, not Container, Wealth of
Nations.
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/317580
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:29:48 Seth I would lke to try that, but it can
wait. I now have Brass, and I want to play OP
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:30:11 clearclaw I'll try to get the rules
done week
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:30:28 clearclaw I'm not so fond of Brass. A
fine game for people who are not me.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:30:52 Seth the rules are a hurdle
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:31:05 Seth but once you get them down I guess
it's not so difficult a system to work in
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:31:09 clearclaw ne or two games and everyone
should be fine.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:31:25 clearclaw s/ne/One/
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:31:28 Seth You heard about PG last night,
right?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:31:45 Seth yeah, the trouble is finding enough
of the same people to play a 2nd or 3rd game...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:31:50 clearclaw Vaguely -- IIRC you yshed the
pause and krept through.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:32:01 Seth I think the 3 from tonight (Tyler,
John, Nick) will play some more
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:32:12 clearclaw Brass is in near constant
rotation here. I don't think I've seen a game night for thelast two months where
it wasn't played.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:32:47 clearclaw s/yshed/rushed/
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:32:57 clearclaw s/krept/crept/
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:33:02 Seth I sort of alternately hung back and
jumped forward, then I was at 6 houses when someone (a 1st time player) hit 7
starting phase 2... I was like 3rd to go (out of 5)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:33:08 Seth juped to 11 houses
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:33:31 Seth then was last to go, bought a power
plant to power a total of 13 houses (plus the garbage to run it), and bought 4
houses
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:33:42 Seth That was anticlimactic for me
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:34:12 Seth it probably happened in part
because there wre 2 new players, me (not an expert by any means), and 2 "veterans"
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:34:21 clearclaw Why anticlimactic? It would
seem the result of good planning.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:34:25 Seth 1 newbie got hemmed in at the top
of the board pretty bad
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:34:34 Seth he was pretty much out of
contention after round 2 or so
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:35:06 Seth To me the rush/skipping of Step 3
(and barely playing in step 2) feels anti climactic
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:35:15 Seth I feel like the game is bigger than
the part you actually play
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:35:27 clearclaw has run away with his last
three WoN games, embarassingly on Monday, making the game ends obvious (and thus
not climactic), but the games remained enjoyable.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:35:38 clearclaw I don't grok
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:35:42 Seth perhaps I would like it better if
you had to hit 20 cities or something (well, 17 or 18 maybe) to end it
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:36:00 clearclaw I'm also not sure how much I
value climax at game ending. It seems a kind a nice-to-have that I don't care much
about.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:36:10 clearclaw Why?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:36:56 Seth I succeeded in positioning myself
in turn order to go 2nd (I think I said 3rd, but I meant 2nd) when phase 2 hit.
Yay. So I was able to blow out a bunch of houses for relatively cheap. I saved up
some cash to do it to,. I felt good about how I'd played that.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:37:26 clearclaw In most games the candidate
winners are obvious from the late early game with the endgame either being obvious
or one of two. That's just the nature of games...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:37:32 Seth in effect, I thnk I won the game at
that point. then we played another round which was largely bookkeeping
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:37:37 Seth and it wasn't particularly fun
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:37:43 Seth and I'd probably already won
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:38:10 clearclaw Many games are in fact
decided several turns before they actually end.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:38:19 Seth and they went through the trouble
of making all these rules for step 3, which we dodged entirely, and which in most
games hardly matter
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:38:37 clearclaw Which is a problem except for
the fact that the game requires that length for the winner's position to play out.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:39:27 clearclaw (the 18XX tend to be like
that -- which is why spreadsheeting the end-games is so popular)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:41:40 Seth I don't know if I like games where
that is so evident as much as games where it's either not evident, or subject to
change
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:43:01 Seth I just read your loan Q thread
about WoN
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:43:07 Seth I wonder a similar thing about
Brass
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:43:18 Seth I took some loans tonight
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:43:25 Seth 2 that really dented my income
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:43:53 Seth I like games where income and VP
aren't the same thing
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:44:07 Seth But I htink I like how AoS and RRT
have them conected/associated
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:44:16 Seth I guess it depends on the game
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:44:52 Seth I like how that works in AoS/RRT,
but I like how games like PR and whatever make you build an income engine and a VP
engine, and deciding when to switch is important
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:45:15 Seth OP is neither, of course
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:46:01 Seth what do you think of the VP track
realy being an "income" rtrack, telling you how much fish/shells you get each
turn...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:46:24 Seth that might do largely the same
thing, but make a lot of the "transactions" more elegant
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:46:27 clearclaw Oh, there's a definite switch
in OP, but they both use the same engine.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:46:32 Seth I'm not entirely sure what I mean
byt hat
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:46:58 clearclaw has no clue. Income is not
preserved over turns.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:47:04 Seth yeah, hat's true - in OP you do
switch from concentrating on income to concentrating on Prestige...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:47:21 clearclaw Which is a big point of the
economic model -- there is NO stored wealth in OP.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:47:33 Seth Fish and shells are preserved over
turns, but hey degrade
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:48:27 Seth the point is, instead of getting
fish/shells when you deliver, what if you advanced your "income" track, and then
you have X income to spend this round (or you get it and it rots as normal) or
something
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:49:26 clearclaw Then there is no bonding of
income by type, which is a problem.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:49:40 Seth no, you could still have thatr
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:49:54 clearclaw There is no fish<->shell
conversion. That's a deliberate game in the translation matrix.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:50:09 clearclaw s/game/gap/
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:50:27 Seth you could have it very similar to
now - each player has a Fish counter and a Shell counter on the income track for
example
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:51:00 clearclaw Oh, sure, that could be done.
Makes rot a little odd, but it would work.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:51:19 Seth or the income track could have 2
values... 1 for Fish, 1 for Shells... they wouldn't convert to each other, but they
would each be tied t othe value of the income track
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:51:29 clearclaw More simply it makes no
logical difference to the game. That's presentation, not game definition.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:52:09 Seth well, that depends on whether it's
exactly the same, just kept track of differently... or slightly different (or very
different).
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:52:52 clearclaw If there's a difference it
can be represented with tokens ot tracks, it doesn't matter. The track is not
defining.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:52:58 clearclaw s/ot/or/
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:53:24 Seth Like [i]instead[/i] of VPs and
income from deliveries, you'd advance on the VP track ("income track" ), and then
you maybe get handed an amount of fish/shells based on the track (rather than
collecting income as you go or something)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:53:31 Seth it would change things
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:53:39 Seth but would it change the game? I
dunno
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:54:16 Seth [yes, I understant the difference
between presentation and actual rules changes]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:54:39 clearclaw If score is on any way tied
to income, then that is a fundamental (and unwelcome) change.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:55:07 clearclaw A core premise of the game is
that player's must re-invent their income very round.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:56:34 clearclaw If the cinome from a turn is
some sort of unified counter which maps to fish/shells, then that loses the
resource differentiation which is also an unwelcome. Change. The core binding of
route placement dictating resource earning type mix for the rest of the game is
required.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:56:36 Seth score is currently tied to
income... you can discard VPs for fish/shells
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:57:00 clearclaw That's one in one direction.
fish/shells don't map to VPs.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:57:06 clearclaw only
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:57:22 clearclaw Another deliberate gap in the
translation matrix.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:57:50 clearclaw The only things that map to
VPs are deliveries and Kula.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:58:09 clearclaw (it is kind of an interesting
graph actually)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 00:59:32 Seth and what I'm talking about would
similarly be in 1 direction... as it stands now, gaining a VP is a lot like gaining
fish and shells, only they don't rot (yet). Later you discard VPs for fish/shells.
That's a lot like taking VPs and saying "this is how many fish/shells you get
[i]next[/i] turn" - in one case it is (the case that the player exchanges all their
VPs for Fish/Shells)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:00:02 Seth in other cases it can be similar
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:00:06 clearclaw Tho technically shells/fish
map to VPs via routes and then deliveries or via kula.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:00:17 Seth and in the extreme opposite case
(you never cash VPs for fish/shells) then it isn't
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:01:16 clearclaw Players will spend most of
the game cashing VPs for resources, they'l also usually end the game with 30-60
VPs.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:01:25 clearclaw (before prestige)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:01:53 Seth ... and cashing VPs for money means
Vs = income, so yes, VPs are tied to income ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:02:03 Seth *VPs
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:03:04 Seth Actually, one of the things I like
about OP is the decision to keep the VPs or cash them for money
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:03:06 clearclaw Money? What money?
Discarding VPs for fish and shells is to be avoided -- it is grossly lossy.
However it takes a while to build the efficiencies required.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:03:21 Seth but that's dulled by your comment
"you always want to cash for money"
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:04:04 clearclaw There are clear exceptions
but they are relatively clearcut and based on the incentive graphsof teh time plus
guture prospects.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:04:52 clearclaw But in the general case, as
long as the VP delta isn't TOO large, it is an automatic. It isn't automatic when
the number of VPs involved starts to be large.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:05:04 Seth I just thought of something
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:05:19 clearclaw I don't think I've seen more
than 35 VPs discarded in a single turn.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:05:41 clearclaw (which was a mistake on my
part -- I could only get to 31 prestige, not 34)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:05:54 Seth many of these explosion games
(well, POwer Grid is the one in mond) have a game end trigger finish line, but the
person crossing it doesn't necessarily win. How likely is it the person triggering
the game end in OP will win? Seems like in general you won't trigger it unless
yu'll win...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:06:34 clearclaw That's assumed. Some players
calculate it out, some don't. Mahy OP games end with multiple players past 33.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:06:55 clearclaw And high prestige doesn't
always win.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:07:32 clearclaw lost a recent OP game by 3
points despite having fare more prestige and at a higher multiplier than the actual
winner.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:08:12 Seth because they had a lot of VPs on
the VP track?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:08:31 clearclaw Yep
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:08:37 Seth That part I like... that the person
triggering the game end isn't necessarily the winner
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:08:45 Seth because otherwise it's a straight
race
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:09:05 Seth but it seems more interesting if
you don't [i][know[/i] how much each person has
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:09:30 Seth so you have to make the game end
decision based on whetheryou think you're playing well enough to win
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:09:56 clearclaw Perfectly trackable of
course. What uncertainty there is comes from market delivery dynamics.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:10:01 Seth not sure how to do that without HTI
(that is to say without things being trackable and therefore not hidden)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:11:38 clearclaw I see no reason for OP to not
be a PI game or to tolerate HTI.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:14:26 Seth I'm just saying, I think I like
games that you can trigger the endgame and not win, and I think I might like them
better if you don't know for certain if you'l win or not and have to determine
based on how you've been doing and how others have been doing. Not that OP should
be such a game
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:14:43 clearclaw Okay.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:14:58 clearclaw There can be uncertainty
based on how the funal deliveries play out.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:15:14 Seth true
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:20:03 Seth reads Brass strategy articles
sej-afk
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:31:20 clearclaw muses. One of the other
player's tonight ranted at me that he was simply doing exactly what I did the
previous night and therefore I had no basis for negative comment on his game. In
the last game I withheld all read in the early game as I wanted them all formyself
to secure tightly contested area/hexes. He withheld red in order to drive the
price up, rather than taking advantage of the
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:32:26 sej-afk lol
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:32:33 sej-afk some people just don't get it
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:32:52 clearclaw efficiency gains of trade.
He had no fears for area access at that point. My explanation of this difference
was not well received -- he did not see that our positions were in fact different.
He saw only that each was the first turn of the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:34:23 clearclaw He's a very smart cookie, PhD
candidate at Stanford doing a rather interesting paper on some aspects of auction
theory, but he just diesn't understand time dilation in game decisions.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:36:20 clearclaw (he also rapidly loses
interest in and refuses to play games he doesn't win occasionally, which means we
rarely play together as I explicitly play against his weaknesses, usually causing
him to at least do Very Badly even if I don't win)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:36:57 clearclaw He single turn optimises like
a banshee tho!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:38:31 sej-afk Are banshees known to
optimise? ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:40:44 clearclaw Well, people do keep
dieing...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:41:50 clearclaw And given the world-wide rate
of deaths versus the rate of banshee sightings, yeah, I'd say they are hella
efficient.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:41:50 sej-afk lol
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:42:15 clearclaw Billions served!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:52:25 clearclaw commented on Cumbersome
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:55:26 seo waves back
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:57:36 sej-afk sees the comment
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:57:56 sej-afk Ireplied to the effect of "By
definition, once you get to your third bullet point, you're doing conditional
planning"
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:58:03 sej-afk waves to seo
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:58:23 seo waves back to Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:58:57 seo I like games where you trigger the
game end but are not certain you'll win, too
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:59:19 seo but I don't like the uncertainty
factor to be too random
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 01:59:58 sej-afk there's a design challenge
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:00:04 clearclaw In this case it is purely a
function of player self-interested decisions and all the game factors they'll use
to make those decisions are directly in front of you and visible.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:00:11 sej-afk how to make an uncertin
element which isn't just random
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:00:34 seo better to be like a) you trigger
TURN end (and turn scoring) rather than GAME end, so you might wanto to trigger it
even if you're not first, just because you're in a good enough position or a better
position than a direct rival
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:00:54 sej-afk [i]by definition[/i],
planning based on probabilities is "conditional" planning
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:01:12 seo or b) you trigger the end but
there's some scoring to be done yet (like the game will wnd in X more rounds)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:01:59 seo there you have, my embrio of an
answer to your challenge :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:02:02 sej-afk I'm thinking along the lines
of HTI, but not perfectly trackable
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:02:12 sej-afk I like your answer Seo. RRT
does that
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:02:16 sej-afk (your B case)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:02:25 seo what is HTI? I saw the acronym at
the top of my chat buffer
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:02:36 sej-afk I have a game in mind...
League of Six
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:02:43 sej-afk HTI = Hidden Tracjkable
Information
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:03:05 seo says ahhhh!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:03:10 seo thanks
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:03:55 sej-afk in Lo6 there is "money"
(soldiers) which are HTI and there are Civic Leaders or whatever they're called
(for majority scoring at endgame) which are also HTI
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:04:22 sej-afk I htink it would be cool if
the deck of soldiers were turned face down, and a couple singletons of each civic
leader were shuffled in
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:04:38 sej-afk so whenever you get money you
actually might be getting a scoring card instead
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:05:08 sej-afk OR maybe you could pay that
guy as a soldier too, which could be interesting - your moneyis worth a varying
amount (because it afects scoring)...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:05:58 seo I like my suggestions better than
HTI, since they mean a bigger dilemma to the player, IMHO
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:06:19 sej-afk yeah, I think you're rioght
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:06:25 sej-afk at least in some cases
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:06:34 sej-afk but I think in the case of
L06 my idea would be really god
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:06:46 seo yeah, I'm talking generaly
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:07:00 sej-afk I might have to work that
into a game somehow - one where there's a resource type of card and a scoring type
of card
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:07:04 seo your idea seems fine too, nothing
bad with it :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:07:20 sej-afk er... "god" = "good"
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:08:17 clearclaw The point of my comment
wasn't to say that Ra did not involve non-discrete decisions, but that the the
decision space in Ra was particularly clearly and player-visible.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:12:14 clearclaw commented again.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:13:31 sej-afk what your comment doesn't
address is that the change in the value of the lot (if you choose not to buy it0 is
based on chance - this is my friend (etothepi)'s complaint, not mine. Even if
probabilistic... I tend not to agree with Eric often
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:15:08 clearclaw Chance and probability share
a synonymic relationship!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:15:12 sej-afk sej-afk changes his/her
nickname to sej-afk-AFK
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:15:17 sej-afk-AFK yes
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:15:31 sej-afk-AFK I know
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:15:45 clearclaw The potential and probable
change in value of the lot is among the clearly revealed and calculable data in Ra.
No mystery.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:16:18 clearclaw You (can) know precisely the
odds of any variance in the lot value based on the tile you draw.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:16:42 clearclaw Once the tile is drawn you
have no further inputs.
pv_b03cc8dfac40b942deb5ab6eba68a586_f4dc652394040a164c90ea99e3de1c36 04/06/2008
02:19:50 seo "played to be a little MORE greedily" should be "played to
be a little MORE greedy" or "played a little MORE greedily", I think
ch_sej-afk-AFK 04/06/2008 02:29:56 seo joins sej-afk-AFK
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 02:53:24 clearclaw2 Zzzzz-sleeping... quit
(timeout)
ch_sej-afk-AFK 04/06/2008 03:02:20 seo seo quit
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 03:02:55 seo sej-afk-AFK, are you really afk?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 03:03:55 seo have you read the last Prolix blog
post? I posted a comment to it. I'm honestly curious if I'm right or wrong.
04:01:34 sej-afk-AFK sej-afk-AFK quit
Zzzzz-gonetowork
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 05:32:54 Zzzzz-gonetowork seo: not sure if you are
wrong or not... something seems odd as I read the glod post
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 05:32:57 Zzzzz-gonetowork blog
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 05:33:07 Zzzzz-gonetowork talk more later
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:03:09 seo oh! hi
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:08:21 Zzzzz-not-here Zzzzz-not-here changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-here-now
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:14:28 Zzzzz-here-now seo you working on that
magazine client again?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:16:08 seo not sure for how long. I'm totally
fed up with it
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:16:51 Zzzzz-here-now really...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:16:56 seo it's probably the last time I
accept the job, I lose too much time just sorting things out because they are a
mess
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:17:04 Zzzzz-here-now that sort of sucks, yet
doesn't...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:17:13 Zzzzz-here-now ah
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:17:19 seo and that's not what I'm supposed to
do, I'm a designer not the mag editor
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:17:29 Zzzzz-here-now yeah lost time because
of others lack of organization sucks
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:17:40 seo so I get all grumpy... :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:17:44 Zzzzz-here-now my last freelance was a
little like that
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:18:00 Zzzzz-here-now we went from 1 point of
contact to 10.... and those 10 caused much lack of organization
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:18:15 seo I accept I'm totally neurotic and
need to have everything exactly the way I like it before I can start designing
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:18:24 seo but this mag is specially messy
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:18:27 Zzzzz-here-now dont be grumpy.... sadly
clients like that tend to help really pay the bills..
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:18:58 Zzzzz-here-now you just have to start
adjusting your cost to cover the disorganization!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:19:05 seo but this one doesn't pay, just
gives us expensive things we enjoy but don't really need
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:19:17 Zzzzz-here-now ah
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:19:52 seo I mean: I love my leather chairs at
$240 each, but I could have kept my old chairs, that I sold for $100
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:20:26 seo my new $450 chromed table is great
too, but I already had a table!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:20:45 seo and I need to spend $100 on a new,
larger glass for the table top
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:21:18 seo plus I have a bunch of work waiting
on a que, and no time to work on it because of this damn mag...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:21:52 seo I've spent most of last week
sorting things out for the mag :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:22:03 seo and there's still a lot of stuff to
do
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:22:24 seo anyway, no need to bother you with
my complaints
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:22:36 seo how are you doing?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:24:04 Zzzzz-here-now so-so
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:24:26 seo why?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:25:05 Zzzzz-here-now way to busy
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:26:57 seo been there, tried to do that,
failed, stayed there :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:27:03 seo ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:27:23 Zzzzz-here-now lol
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:28:18 Zzzzz-here-now yeah I am at work work
now, I have to go to a client site for work work from 9-11 for two different
meetings, as I am leaving that I have a conference call for my own freelance
client, all to be back here for more meetings around 12... and that is just my
morning!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:30:02 seo that sucks
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:30:12 seo on the Prolix topic: scoring rules
says word score + modifier (which is word score - bid)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:30:19 seo that translates to word score +
(word score - bid) = 2WS - bid
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:30:24 seo when you compare two players, you
get 2WSa - bid versus 2WSb - bid
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:30:31 seo which my math teachers told me it's
the same as 2WSa versus 2WSb
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:31:32 seo so the bid is useless, and if I can
get any bonus for setting the bid value, I'll go for it, an just play any value
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:32:10 Zzzzz-here-now true
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:32:14 seo if I get bonus for each player
below the bid, I'll set an unreachable bid to maximize my bonus
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:33:07 Zzzzz-here-now yeah I am not sure he
meant ws + (ws - bid)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:33:18 Zzzzz-here-now but that is what is math
states
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:33:19 seo I think the idea might work only
if, say, you only score for WS above the bid, and you DON'T get a bonus for setting
the bid
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:33:25 Zzzzz-here-now so that means you are
basically right
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:33:33 seo his example confimrs that
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:33:46 seo so I guess he did mean it :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:33:51 Zzzzz-here-now yepp
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:34:02 seo when I first read the idea, I
thought: that's nice
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:34:18 Zzzzz-here-now he might have confirmed,
but I dont think he meant it
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:34:19 seo but when I did the math, I found
the issue
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:34:19 Zzzzz-here-now lol
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:34:57 seo maybe he just didn't do the
reasoning AFTER the idea
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:35:07 Zzzzz-here-now most likely
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:35:25 Zzzzz-here-now the issue is that who
sets the *high*, and how that impacts the other players
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:35:32 Zzzzz-here-now is I say 1000
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:35:35 Zzzzz-here-now if*
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:35:43 Zzzzz-here-now and I only have a 10
point word
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:36:09 Zzzzz-here-now that would be 10 + (10 -
1000) = -980
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:36:11 Zzzzz-here-now hmm
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:36:19 seo you still have the bonus advantage
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:36:19 Zzzzz-here-now yeah that math is a bit
off
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:36:26 seo for setting the value
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:36:38 Zzzzz-here-now oh yeah the bonus
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:36:53 seo and if I have a 12 point word, and
Seth has an 8 point word
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:37:04 Zzzzz-here-now but if you had a 20
point word, you would have 20 + (20 -1000) = 960
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:37:13 Zzzzz-here-now -960
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:37:15 seo you'll still be 4 points below me
and 4 above Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:37:34 seo yes
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:37:48 Zzzzz-here-now in the case above the 10
point difference would really be a 20 point diff
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:37:55 seo 10 more points in the word
translate into 20 more points in final score
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:37:55 Zzzzz-here-now not involving the bonus
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:38:28 Zzzzz-here-now but in the end it really
does not matter, and it just adds unneeded and undesired math
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:38:42 seo the bonus just makes the numbers
shift up or down
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:39:36 seo but with a bid of 1000 we will all
have negative scores, so yes, bid value dowesn't play a role with that criterium
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:40:19 seo it will fool most players at first,
and some players will need more time to realize
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:40:38 seo so this just helps math oriented
Prolix players
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:41:27 Zzzzz-here-now true... sadly I have to
go... offsite meeting need to drive
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:41:30 Zzzzz-here-now talk to you more later
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:41:41 seo I need to go back to work anyway
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:41:53 seo nice talking to you, even if just a
bit :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 06:46:08 sej-afk-AFK Zzzzz-here-now quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 08:10:42 seo Hi Fred
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 08:37:41 Gogolski Oh.... Hi seo, I didn't see
all the action that was going on here...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 08:37:52 Gogolski ...and hi all the rest...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:01:50 seo the action was before you came, and
the rest are in fact all away, I think
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:02:13 seo we were talking about
http://www.bgdf.com/tiki-view_blog.php?blogId=182#comments
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:02:23 seo the last blog post and my comment
to it
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:02:32 Gogolski I'm gonna have another test
tonight. I'm looking forward to it...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:06:35 seo oh, good!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:06:55 seo any new ideas? or just the expected
adjustments?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:19:03 Gogolski A new board, and the changes
I made after previous test. The irrigation-areas are much simpler and more
interesting now. The changes should speed up the game quite a bit. I'm still not
sure about how much creatures should be in the creature deck, as this will function
as a timer...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:20:06 Gogolski I'm thinking 6 / player, but
it might need 9 / player... I'm not sure how much faster the game will play with
the new rules (how much faster you acumulate resources)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:31:16 seo wouldn't 9-player in a turn-based
game might result in too much downtime?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:31:51 seo nm, you meant 6 creatures per
player!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:32:21 seo doho123 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:37:01 Gogolski yep... If each player can use
6 creatures average, that would mean 9 or 10 rounds, I think. (Half the time, you
will use a creature for one round, sometimes you need a creature for two rounds to
accomplish what you want.)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:38:21 Gogolski The player with the temple
doesn't draw creatures from the creature deck (=random creature). Instead, he
searched through the discard pile to get the creature of his choice...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:39:20 Gogolski So, probably 10 to 13
rounds... That should do it I think...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:40:32 seo a couple minutes per player per
turn for a 2 hour game with 4-6 players. sounds reasonable.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:46:04 Gogolski A game round with 4 players
is doable in 10 minutes (that was when solo-testing with unstreamlined rules). The
game then took longer to build up. Now players start with more resources (and thus
options) from the start...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 09:57:11 seo so turns are quite quick! (or
you're a fast player) ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:02:12 Gogolski Each player has three
actions. Before each action, you get resources from quarries or irrigation areas
(You can be at one quarry AND/OR one irrigation area at most). The actions are
moving a pawn (creature), building or converting a building (= paying resources and
(re)placing a building on the board).
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:03:24 Gogolski That is all quite quick and
obvious. 10 to 40 seconds / player / action.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:05:32 Gogolski The miracles/dissasters are
always performed. (That would set a player back resource-wise and action-wise,
because you have to buy a new priest the next round...
Zzzzz-notreally
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:07:30 Gogolski Scoring and feeding is not
complicated too. (You have to be able to count to 15 or 20 or so). I think the
player aids will help too...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:08:10 seo sej-afk-AFK quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:08:59 Gogolski But I have some changes in
mind allready for the player-aids and I will maybe add scoring-aids to the board
too... I'll see after tonight's playtest...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:11:43 Gogolski brb....
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:42:57 Brykovian joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:43:25 Brykovian [color=#008000] hi [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:46:15 Bryk2 joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:46:45 seo Hi Bryk
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:47:00 seo Bi Bryk2
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:47:16 seo have guys met? ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:47:23 Bryk2 [color=#008000] I had some sort of
memory error and it tossed me out [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:47:40 Bryk2 [color=#008000] I'm trying to do an
"/identify", but the password must've been changed [/color]
pv_b03cc8dfac40b942deb5ab6eba68a586_e5e39955f1100cbef1a3d1ca13e43320 04/06/2008
10:48:15 seo pass: spieladmin
10:48:31 Bryk2 [color=#008000] I thought that's what I used :( [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:48:41 Bryk2 Brykovian quit (timeout)
10:48:51 seo just used it myself
10:49:02 Bryk2 [color=#008000] yep ... "Identification failure" for me
[/color]
10:49:10 Bryk2 [color=#008000] can you kick my old self off? :) [/color]
10:49:27 seo you already timed out
10:49:38 Bryk2 [color=#008000] I see :) [/color]
10:49:40 seo change your nick and try again
10:49:46 Bryk2 [color=#008000] that patience thing is always a problem :P
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:49:52 Bryk2 Bryk2 changes his/her nickname to
Brykovian
10:49:52 Bryk2 Bryk2 changes his/her nickname to Brykovian
10:50:09 Brykovian [color=#008000] that's the ticket -- thanks [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:50:15 seo there you are!
10:50:21 seo seo quit
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:50:30 Brykovian [color=#008000] it's me ...
it's really me [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:50:33 clearclaw Boo!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:50:59 Brykovian [color=#008000] hi JC
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:51:06 seo Hi JC
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:51:10 clearclaw Lo
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:51:14 Brykovian [color=#008000] I'll be in
San Jose next week [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:53:12 seo I'll be in Montevideo next week
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:53:31 clearclaw Time enough to play?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:53:42 seo but I guess you mean San Jose, USA,
not San José, Uruguay
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:54:20 Brykovian [color=#008000] @JC ... I
don't have any post-work plans set for Monday through Thursday yet ... although I
don't have a car either :P [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:54:27 clearclaw 'Tis true, 'tis true. Then I
shall wave at you from a distance.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:54:47 clearclaw Where will you be staying?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:54:59 Brykovian [color=#008000] yes, Ariel --
San Jose, California :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:55:18 Brykovian [color=#008000] I'm at the
DoubleTree by the Airport ... think I'll probably get a week's pass for the light
rail this time [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:55:37 dnjkirk arrrrrgh
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:55:41 Brykovian [color=#008000] been given
some tips for eating downtown [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:55:48 Brykovian [color=#008000] hi Dylan
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:55:51 clearclaw Wilco. And roughly what time
will you be breaking free each day?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:55:58 dnjkirk helloo
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:56:17 clearclaw removes his hands from
Dylan's throat so that he may type more easily.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:56:29 Brykovian [color=#008000] should be in
the clear by 5 or 6 pm each day [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:56:38 clearclaw Coolness.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:56:42 dnjkirk problems, CC??
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:56:58 dnjkirk you hate my HTI, is that it?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:57:02 dnjkirk :)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:57:28 Brykovian [color=#008000] Ariel ... the
first time I was booking a flight to San Jose, CA on our auto-booking travel
system, I simply put in "San Jose" as the destination ... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:57:42 Brykovian [color=#008000] ... and the
system started working my route out to Chile [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:58:11 Brykovian [color=#008000] that was a
pretty expensive ticket ... and I would have been on a plane for quite a while :)
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:58:43 dnjkirk Speaking of planes, I think I
know where I will be and when for the next three months or so
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:58:44 clearclaw Dylan: I just figured there
has to be some reason for your throat clearing and I might as well volunteer!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:58:55 dnjkirk ahh!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:59:16 dnjkirk I thought of you when I was
watching Scott's Boardgame introduction to the 18XX series
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:59:31 clearclaw Bryk: There's gaming Monday,
Tuesday, and Weds eve with Weds at a larger distance.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:59:33 clearclaw blushing
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 10:59:55 dnjkirk aww it's OK, you had me at
"removes"
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:00:12 rKnizia joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:00:39 clearclaw Bryk: I'm perfectly willing
to run you up to the Monday/Tuesday if you can get near my work (which is on the
light Rail) and then drive you back to your hotel.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:01:36 clearclaw Weds is very unstable for me
currently. The gaming is up in Endgame Oakland and I do not know if I'll have time
to go then given work's current (tentative) release cycles.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:01:49 Brykovian [color=#008000] Tuesday might
be workable [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:02:14 clearclaw Monday is SB-Boardgamers
(Yahoo!), Tuesday is SVB.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:02:31 Brykovian [color=#008000] SVB? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:02:45 clearclaw Silicon Valley Boardgamers.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:03:08 clearclaw Monday's out? (I suspect
you'll enjoy SBBG more)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:03:48 Seth Hiya Dylan, Scott
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:03:57 Seth seo,
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:04:07 Seth Bryk
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:04:13 Seth Dave, fred
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:04:15 Seth JC
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:04:22 Seth sheesh, full house
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:04:22 dnjkirk Hi Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:04:22 Seth !
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:04:35 Brykovian [color=#008000] Monday might
be workable too ... but I arrive mid-day and have straight meetings until 5:30 ...
so I may not be "all there" ;) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:04:45 Brykovian rKnizia quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:04:48 Brykovian [color=#008000] (then again,
I may never really be "all there", so ...) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:04:50 dnjkirk I haven't been thinking about
the airplane game, too busy with the real things
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:05:06 dnjkirk damn flight bookings
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:05:21 dnjkirk airfares are going up 20-30%
across the board all over the world these weeks
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:05:25 Seth rKinizia must still be in Reno
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:05:33 dnjkirk fuel surcharges
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:05:33 Brykovian [color=#008000] why do you
suspect that I would enjoy the Monday crowd more than the Tuesday one? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:05:34 Seth he's experiencing Reno Failure...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:05:39 Seth (boo, hiss)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:05:46 dnjkirk oooh ow.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:06:06 clearclaw SBBG and SVB are very
different character groups.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:06:11 Seth Dylan, I haven't been thinking
about airports either
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:07:32 dnjkirk I'm thinking about airports,
just not game ones
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:07:34 clearclaw SBBG is much more mixed-
gender and in some ways relaxed. The cafeteria is open. The group is larger (~30-
40 people) and the play styles cover the gamut from almost-party to heavy euro (tho
almost no wargaming)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:07:34 Brykovian [color=#008000] I'm more at
home in a less-intense, gaming-for-fun type crowd [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:07:41 dnjkirk anyhoo
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:07:57 Brykovian [color=#008000] so, I think
you have it right [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:08:20 Brykovian [color=#008000] not big on
party games (unless it's close friends, usually couples) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:08:35 clearclaw SVB is a little more
hardcore. Smaller group, Mountain View Community Centre. More more highly skilled
players, heavier games in general, etc.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:08:54 clearclaw Monday is also open through
the night. Tuesday has a hard stop at 22:00hrs.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:09:13 Brykovian [color=#008000] ah ...
yeah ... I'm not a highly skilled player ;) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:09:14 dnjkirk I will be in London July 17-
24, Ottawa July 24-31, Calgary July 31-Sep 3, Nagoya and Tokyo Sep 3-17, with a
stop in Shanghai before and after Japan
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:09:18 clearclaw I don't do party games
either. They're not common at SBBG but they pop up now and then.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:09:47 dnjkirk the Dylan world tour.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:09:55 dnjkirk if you are nearby, and can be
met, then cool
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:10:14 clearclaw But Ted has been playtesting
his next round of Werewolf variants on Mondays, so that's been seeing some table
time.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:10:14 dnjkirk we may head up to Montreal
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:10:31 clearclaw will be near in a planetary
sense.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:10:50 Brykovian [color=#008000] Dylan ... I'm
an assistant coach for my daughter's softball team ... could I book you to do a
lecture on how baseball-bat-like weapons have been used throughout history?
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:10:51 Brykovian [color=#008000] ;) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:11:09 dnjkirk can I demo?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:11:13 Brykovian [color=#008000] You should be
able to swing bye here on your way from Ottawa to Calgary [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:11:54 Brykovian [color=#008000] I wouldn't
expect anything less :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:12:09 Brykovian [color=#008000] JC -- I'll
GeekMail you later this week, once my schedule for next week firms up [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:12:27 clearclaw Wilco
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:13:05 Brykovian [color=#008000] those Monday
evenings are usually pretty tough for me ... still operating at +2 hours [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:14:10 Brykovian [color=#008000] btw, I've
found that it makes my wife quite nervous when I do these evening jaunts out for
gaming when I'm in a different city on a business trip [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:14:33 clearclaw !? Nervous why? Thinks
you're going to get mugged?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:15:04 dnjkirk Thinks he's got another wife!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:15:04 Brykovian [color=#008000] she was
seriously concerned that my meeting Rick & Helen H. was a potentially dangerous act
... which is pretty funny once you've been them :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:15:10 dnjkirk ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:15:25 Brykovian [color=#008000] Actually,
Dylan, I think she'd be more comfortable with that :P [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:15:32 clearclaw You can let your wife know
that the manslaughter charges were dismissed for lack of evidence.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:15:42 Brykovian [color=#008000] you know
those "gamer types" ... scary folks ;) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:15:48 clearclaw Yeah, Rick and Helen are
sweet.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:16:18 Brykovian [color=#008000] she was also
very nervous when I drove up to Loveland, CO to play at the Game Castle after just
trading 2 e-mails with that groups organizer [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:17:03 dnjkirk Strange thing
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:17:04 clearclaw If she's really nervous I can
point you to online photos of the people in those groups plus their primary
attendees. Shows context, people, ambiance etc.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:17:34 Seth Which end of Canadia is ottowa and
Calgary on?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:17:36 Zzzzz-notreally ugh ugh
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:17:41 Brykovian [color=#008000] Not sure that
would make her any less nervous. ;) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:18:20 Brykovian [color=#008000] She's mostly
just playing around (I think) ... not like that will change my plans when I find
good folks to meet with [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:18:37 Gogolski I'm gonna go cook some food
and then play "The Hand that FEEDS, the Hand that BEATS'... Later peeps!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:18:50 Brykovian [color=#008000] bye Gog
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:18:51 Gogolski Maybe I should take some
pictures...
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/145877
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/145875 http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/145882
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:19:22 Brykovian [color=#008000] @Seth --
Ottawa is just north of NY [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:20:10 clearclaw Those are all Monday Yahoo!
pics/people
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:20:19 Brykovian [color=#008000] Calgary is
out west [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:20:31 clearclaw As you can see, we are
clearly scary folk.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:20:37 Brykovian [color=#008000] probably
directly north of Arizona [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:20:54 clearclaw (jes a little north and west,
not much, just a hop skip and a jump)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:21:21 Brykovian [color=#008000] :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:22:28 Brykovian [color=#008000] in that
second pic, JC ... which one is you? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:23:17 clearclaw Gray shirt.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:23:23 clearclaw has lost a little weight
since then.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:23:30 Zzzzz-notreally man all dressed in
black, is it a cult? :P
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:23:49 Seth rKinizia's back!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:23:51 Brykovian [color=#008000] :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:24:03 doho123 who?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:24:33 Zzzzz-notreally who is the guy with the
smiley face tshirt? he looks familiar to me
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:25:06 clearclaw Which pic?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:25:51 Brykovian [color=#008000] I think it's
James Galway, sans flute :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:26:12 Brykovian [color=#008000]
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/66409 [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:26:42 doho123 George Lucas!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:27:00 clearclaw That's Randy Farmer, game
designer and virtual world/community expert extraordinaire.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:28:05 Brykovian [color=#008000] I met a randy
farmer once ... she was kinda cute too [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:28:23 Seth lol Matt
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:28:40 Brykovian [color=#008000] (sorry ... I
generally don't stoop to making fun of people's names :( ) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:28:44 Brykovian has no will power
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:28:47 Seth Sounds like something out of
Agricola
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:29:22 Seth like when you take the action which
makes a baby
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:29:31 doho123 I finished up the first draft
of the Shipwreck rules last night, if anyone is interested...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:29:41 clearclaw PLEASE STEP AWAY FROM THE
SHEEP! THERE ARE NO KIDS AVAILBLE THERE! PLEASE STEP AWAY FROM THE SHEEP
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/317605 <- ?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:29:49 Seth good or bad?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:29:59 seo "who is the guy with the smiley
face tshirt? he looks familiar to me" <<< certainly not Scott!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:30:10 Seth lol Seo
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:30:13 seo he hates all kinds of smilies
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:30:30 Seth We should all send Scott tshirts
with emoticons on them for his bday :)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:30:50 Seth "You try to front with rhymes,
stolen from the jackson 5"
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:30:52 Zzzzz-notreally lol
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:30:58 clearclaw Seth: Neuland is flat out
brilliant with the first edition rules but I suspect you wouldn't be fond of it.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:31:04 Seth you gotta love the nerdcore rap
lyrics!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:31:13 Zzzzz-notreally just checking, I must
have seen.meet him at something like GenCON.... he just looks too familiar to me
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:31:15 Seth I think I played it once
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:31:22 doho123 no smilies please
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:31:49 Seth only [i]custom[/i] smilies (see
SRFCE rulebook)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:32:05 doho123 reprinting old game designs
that noone wants (otherwise they'd still be in print) is just one way the industry
prevents "All For One" from being published
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:32:23 doho123 right. custon smilies work.
Or references to "Watchmen"
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:32:23 Seth doho123: I think you should work on
Reading Railroad instead of the shipwreck thing
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:32:25 Brykovian [color=#008000]
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/12681 .... yeesh -- who wrote that description?
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:33:08 Seth worst. description. ever.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:33:21 clearclaw Inaccurate too.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:33:34 doho123 I guess I need to play the
Seth inspired version of RR first to make changes
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:34:17 Seth so do it!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:34:38 doho123 I'm waiting for it to come
out on Xbox live
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:35:08 Seth You already have a map printed,
right?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:35:35 doho123 not the new map
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:36:09 Seth so use the old map
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:36:12 dnjkirk Sorry... had to go reassure
son hat sleep is good
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:36:15 Seth game still works
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:36:39 Seth so you really don't even need to
print anything out or make anything...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:36:54 Seth just redistribute letter tiles
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:37:19 Seth i used a scrabble set (well,
subset)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:37:50 Brykovian [color=#008000] @Dylan ... I
generally like to demonstrate that point -- snoring loudly helps with learning :)
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:39:20 dnjkirk yes, demonstration is best
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:39:31 dnjkirk children should learn by
example
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:40:07 dnjkirk but I keep having to tell
Kyrie to refrain from wiping his doirty hands on his sarong and hold his beer with
both hands
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:41:25 Brykovian [color=#008000] have you
tried showing him 2 beers at a time ... I've found it helps with the using-both-
hands thing [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:43:30 dnjkirk too true
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:43:56 dnjkirk OK I need to sleep
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:44:02 dnjkirk I have code to debug tomorrow
morning
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:45:15 dnjkirk I'm the only moderately
technically inclined guy in a sea of not-so-technically-inclined people. It means I
end up fixing stuff. :(
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:45:23 dnjkirk night
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:45:39 Seth g'night
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:47:07 Seth Scott: the distribution is on the
rules (in setup) here: http://dakotacom.net/~sej/ReadingRailroad/WordRails_rules
%20V3.doc <- for Resource Letters I think the J/Q/X/Z should be removed
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:47:16 Seth so no singletons
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:47:35 Seth I need a more thematic 'scoring
phrase'
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:47:44 doho123 but then I can't spell
"Queen"
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:48:02 Seth that's OK
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:48:12 Seth no need to spell Queen
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:48:18 doho123 that's like Hillary's "the
only states that count are ones that don't have caucuses!"
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:48:27 Seth if the Q were in and you never drew
it you also couldn't spell Queen
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:48:38 doho123 if I have a u,e,e,n it would
matter
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:48:54 Seth you won't have a U or any Es
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:48:56 Seth no vowels
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:49:04 Seth in fact, QUEEN would be a horrible
word to spell
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:49:15 Seth it woulnd't earn you any income!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:49:24 doho123 dnjkirk quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:49:44 doho123 god, I hate the scoring board
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:50:52 Brykovian [color=#008000] without
having read anything about this ... you have a spelling game that doesn't include
vowels? :o [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:51:01 Seth well, it's going to change
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:51:11 Seth what do you hatre about it? That it
exists at all?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:51:22 Seth Bryk: you buy vowels
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:51:30 doho123 conceptually now, I hate not
having vowel tiles.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:51:43 Seth why?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:51:54 Seth why conceptually?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:52:01 Seth playtesters liked the buying vowels
thing
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:52:06 doho123 there's something nice about
having physical tiles that you can move around to complete words
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:52:15 doho123 instead of "virtual letters"
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:53:08 Seth I see where you're coming from, but
theres also something nice about not getting tiles you can't makea word out of
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:53:30 doho123 I'd prefer, if nothing else,
that vowels are put back into the letter mix
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:54:07 Seth that's even worse
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:54:18 doho123 actually, why not let a
player pay for any letter he wants if he needs one, instead of just vowels
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:54:33 doho123 why is it worse?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:54:41 Seth wait
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:55:22 Seth if youre saying vowels should go
back in, I assume you mean after use... and that implies that consonants don't - so
you get more and more vowels in the bag and more likely to get a handful of vowels
you can't use
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:55:49 Seth Buying any letter isn't a terrible
idea, but buying a vowel seems "better" to me
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:55:57 doho123 I want a full complement of
letters in the bag, but also let me pay for letters that I may need
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:56:05 Seth in Wheel Of Fortune why can you not
buy consonants?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:56:30 doho123 because you get consanants
for free
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:56:44 Seth in RR you get consonatns for free
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:57:11 doho123 you aren't guessing a phrase
in RR, in WOF, if you let players have vowels for free, the game breaks down
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:57:28 Seth and maybe part of the reason people
have liked it is precisely because they are familiar with 'buy a vowel" from Wheel
of Fortune
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:57:53 doho123 sure, there might be some
familiarity to it
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:58:02 Seth Which I htink helps
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:58:10 Seth it's been good so far
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:58:32 doho123 I play the word "SEQUOIA" for
-3 coins
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:58:47 Seth so you obv don't play that word
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:58:52 doho123 see, I can't play that word
either without the Q!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:59:13 Seth (if Q were to stay in, I'd say make
it QU)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:59:24 Seth so it wouldn't come up
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:59:39 Seth why do you want to make a specific
word?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:59:45 Brykovian [color=#008000] gotta go --
see ya'lls [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:59:46 doho123 Qu would be fine with me
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:59:53 Brykovian Brykovian quit
11:59:54 Brykovian Brykovian quit
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 11:59:55 Seth See you , Matt
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:00:25 Seth when in Scrabble are you looking at
a rack full of consonants wishing you could spell SEQUOIA?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:00:31 Zzzzz-notreally bye bye.... stupid
secure area!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:00:32 Seth i.e. it's irrelevant
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:00:36 Zzzzz-notreally Zzzzz-notreally quit
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:00:47 Seth the only time you'd want to spell
that word is if you have a handful of vowels
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:01:03 Seth and a Q
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:01:09 doho123 well, if you are playing
scrabble, you are looking to spell words like "PI", and "ZA"
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:01:24 Seth QU is better than Q, but I think
better still just never draw a Q
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:01:34 doho123 and other stupid made up
words just to appease the Scrabble geeks
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:02:32 Seth there's no word game where you
specifically want to spell a particular word out of tiles you don't have
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:02:44 Seth and I don't think there needs to be
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:03:05 Seth and even if there needs to be,
Reading Railroad isn't set up to be that game, not any version of it we've
discussed
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:03:15 doho123 apparently this game is one,
with the scoring words rules!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:03:44 Seth no
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:04:01 Seth because those aren't made out of
tiles you randomly draw from a bag
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:04:08 doho123 the scoring words ARE target
words that you are trying to spell
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:04:10 Seth that's not word building, that's
set collection
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:04:53 Seth and SEQUOIA isn't one of those
words either , but if it was then there would be Ss, As, Os, and Qs to collect
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:05:01 Seth so that's an entirely different
story
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:05:42 Seth My current thoguht on the set
collection is that there will be 'colored cubes' with letters - several different
letters per color
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:06:16 Seth so a red cube collected could be
used as an R in one word or an O in another
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:06:35 Seth or whatever
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:06:52 Seth and it would be easy to see becasue
the target words would have the letters colored
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:07:05 Seth one could ignore the letters and go
by color
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:07:19 Seth which is evidently better,
according to playtesters
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:07:32 Seth (but this scheme keeps the letters
and theme)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:07:41 Seth (and the cubes could look like
kid's alphabet blocks)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:09:39 doho123 seems like you are
complicating things
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:10:20 Seth actually I am simplifying
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:10:40 doho123 just have the target words be
old railroad stock certifacte names
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:10:42 Seth instead of 26 different "city
tiles" there will be like 6-10
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:10:52 doho123 then it's all nice and theme-
y
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:10:58 Seth That might be a good idea, so as
not to have to make up a phrase
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:11:07 Seth though then it's less "reading" but
that's probably OK
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:11:13 Seth I think I still have a list of
those.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:11:21 Seth or some of those
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:11:39 doho123 and a lot of them have goofy
letter combos.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:12:04 Seth That implies to me that the words
READING and RAILROAD could be common, and the stock certificates could be cards
that you draw like tickets and are only for you
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:12:21 Seth goofy letter combos don't really
matter
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:12:24 doho123 and it would not be a big
deal to figure out some mathematical scoring trick based on letter combinations
versus the letter distribution in the "decck"
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:12:50 Seth right, true
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:13:04 Seth I might order some of these
http://www.craftparts.com/mall/Alphabet.asp
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:13:27 Seth #159201
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:13:30 doho123
http://images.cafepress.com/product/177786790v1_240x240_Front.jpg
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:14:21 Seth what's that from?
http://www.cafepress.com/stans_railpix.64401595
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:16:44 Seth those 5/8" blocks, I wish I could
see what's on the other sides
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:16:50 Seth I think they're prolly blank :/
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:16:58 Seth which would be bad
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:17:04 Seth bad-ish
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:30:17 doho123 builds his list of railroad
comapny names
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:32:46 Seth imagines nice cards with those pics
you found
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:33:06 Seth Prolly want 4-6 letters
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:33:12 seo don't letter blocks have letters on
all sides? or at least on both top and bottom?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:33:18 Seth READING is 7 and RAILROAD is 8
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:33:27 Seth Seo: I hope so
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:33:30 doho123 typically 2 sides
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:33:38 Seth WABASH :)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:33:38 doho123 just doing READING
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:34:12 Seth i think it would be good to have
the game name READING RAILROAD
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:34:40 Seth And I think it would be neat if
that were somehow different (like common vs personal scoring perhaps)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:35:18 Seth I have written here PENN ROME YORK
UTICA SIERRA TOPEKA PEORIA WABASH
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:36:25 seo @doho: yeah. similar blocks seem to
have some simple drawings on the sides:
http://www.smgov.net/hsd/CREST/Images/childcareblocks.jpg
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:37:05 seo but some others have different
chars: http://bigbeaksbirdtoys.com/alphab21.jpg
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:38:07 seo most seem to have drawings of items
that beguin with that same char http://pro.corbis.com/images/CB028871.jpg?
size=572&uid=%7BBA27CE08-5CD9-44E2-8418-150A7C1599B5%7D
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:39:03 Seth i would ideally want them to be
colored on all sides
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:41:08 seo doesn't seem to be the most likely
case, though :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:57:30 Seth I know :(
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:57:38 Seth might have to modify them
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 12:57:44 Seth or get blank cubes and make
stickers
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 13:01:52 seo prolly a better bet
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 13:05:44 Seth Scott, I imagine you saw this...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 13:05:49 Seth doh
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 13:05:51 Seth he's gone
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 14:06:45 Seth 2 gamers are moving away from
Tucson at the end of the month
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 14:06:50 Seth but it's no huge loss
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 14:31:17 Seth Something makes me want to copy
Merchants of Amsterdam for the airplane game
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 14:31:31 Seth basically an area control game
where you vie for control of all the different airports
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 14:31:42 Seth and maybe you gain influence in 2
of them at a time...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 14:31:55 Seth (like the origina nd destination of
a flight perhaps)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 14:32:18 Seth Actually, my current idea is more
like the inverse of that
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 14:32:40 Seth everyone has some influence in the
airports, and when you used one, your influence goes [i]down[/i]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 14:37:40 clearclaw2 cf King of Siam
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 14:41:05 Seth yeah, I guess so
phone
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 15:45:25 phone phone changes his/her nickname to
Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 16:52:45 Zzzzz-gonetowork ...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 16:57:03 Zzzzz-gonetowork Zzzzz-gonetowork changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-around...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 16:57:21 Seth Chat is sloooooow for me today
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 16:57:44 Zzzzz-around... what is the ping/ms in
the lower right corner showing?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:03:07 Zzzzz-around... hmmm
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:03:15 Zzzzz-around... guess it must really be
slow!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:03:30 clearclaw2 774ms
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:03:48 clearclaw2 etc
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:03:57 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] yeah i
see the same roughly [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:17:16 Seth I was aay from the window
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:17:20 Seth it's like 875
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:17:26 Seth *away
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:17:44 Seth I like Brass... I want to play it a
few times with the same group, so not every game has to be a learnnig game
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:19:12 clearclaw2 Probably Landerbahnen or
Wealth of Nations tonight -- or if I call ahead, 1846.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:19:18 clearclaw2 1846 would be nice...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:19:41 clearclaw2 Heck, all of them would be
nice.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:20:22 Seth Frisbee for me tonight. brass
tomorrow
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:20:28 Seth Brass this weekend
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:20:31 Seth hopefully OP this weekend
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:46:45 clearclaw2 thinks about finishing the
rules.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:46:57 clearclaw2 There's another 6-8 hours
work left in there.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:47:03 Seth meantime I'll use the ones we
played by
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:47:28 clearclaw2 I'd strongly suggest not.
The kahuna business is worked.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:47:41 clearclaw2 The online rules without
Kahuna however work very well.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:47:49 clearclaw2 Possibly even excelently.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:47:54 clearclaw2 But they don't have split
kula.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:48:18 clearclaw2 thinks.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:50:05 clearclaw2 Best with 4P BTW
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:58:16 Seth yeah
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:58:24 Seth whats wrong with Kahuna?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:58:39 clearclaw2 They are too big in the rules
you have.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:58:46 Seth too much money in the system?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:58:54 Seth so maybe I'll just leave them out
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:59:05 clearclaw2 But the online rules are
great for kahuna-less game except for the slow start and unsplit kula.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:59:08 Seth or maybe that will be comment #1:
too much money from Kahunas
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:59:25 clearclaw2 Not according to the numbers
I've been running all week.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 17:59:58 clearclaw2 The only real question ATM is
what VP values to assign the kula.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:00:48 clearclaw2 Tho the answer there may
organically reflect back to adjust other values too.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:01:31 Seth I thought you were ditching VPs for
Kula
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:01:42 Seth Why is it by the way that you get
1/2 value for VPs?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:01:49 clearclaw2 The kula right now are
1/4/3/6 and I suspect they should be 2/5/4/7
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:01:53 Seth why not make that full value, and
double it at Kahunas?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:02:15 clearclaw2 But it just sn't clear.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:08:42 Seth stupid chat... I lagged out again
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:08:47 Seth reloaded no
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:08:49 Seth now
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:08:52 Seth So...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:09:00 Seth why do you get 1/2 value for kula?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:22:46 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] G I
JOOOOOE! GO JOE! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:25:03 clearclaw2 I've updated the online rules
and aid to my current thinking.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:25:10 clearclaw2 they should be fairly close
to good.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:25:32 clearclaw2 What concerns there are
centre on kula values and the patterns of reciprocal giving.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:26:37 Zzzzz-around... Seth quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:26:54 clearclaw2 Seth: BTW I didn't receive
any of your last 7 statements until just now, but I did receive my statements...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:38:43 seo Dave: I think I found an
interesting solution for the Speed Prolix scoring issue. Just posted a new comment.
seo@dinner
18:39:12 seo seo changes his/her nickname to seo@dinner
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:39:13 cocadieta Hey. Anyone around?
http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/2008/06/04/ohana-proa/curmudgeon-rescinds-
generosity/
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:39:23 clearclaw2 No!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:39:23 cocadieta I've been here late lately,
been missing all the action…
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:39:37 clearclaw2 sulks
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:40:17 cocadieta Great! I'll try to get a game
in in the next couple of weeks.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:40:36 clearclaw2 Watch the blog -- those rules
are not set in stone.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:40:47 cocadieta Either ironically or
appropriately, 'Ohana is going to have to get in the back of the line behind Loko
Werks and Pampas.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:41:04 clearclaw2 You got a copy of LW?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:41:12 clearclaw2 iw way behind on geekmail
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:41:38 clearclaw2 John ran off a few copies of
LW for, err, business cultivating purposes.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:41:40 cocadieta John sent me a message asking
me if I wanted to buy one. I'm assuming he did a run for everyone who recommended
the list item.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:42:03 clearclaw2 Nope, run size was probably
<10 and likely <5
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:42:48 clearclaw2 In short you are expected to
comment publicly.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:42:53 cocadieta Sheesh! Anyway he probably
gambled right. I'm more than happy to shill for games if I feel I've got something
to add to the discussion.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:43:00 cocadieta Yeah, exactly.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:43:20 clearclaw2 Primary changes to OP are in
setup/start and kula. Very little change elsewhere.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:43:53 clearclaw2 nods, grins. He is the very
Modern Major Manipulator.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:44:14 Zzzzz-stillworking joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:44:26 cocadieta I think that's enough and
your instinct to hold off on proa automation is right.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:44:58 cocadieta I think that the problem proa
automation solves is a good one to look at, but too much change at once and you
don't even know what you're looking at anymore.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:45:03 clearclaw2 nods. it was actually
considered extensively in the early development of the game, which I forgot, as
well as forgetting the reasons I didn't do it then
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:45:20 clearclaw2 Quite, that's why the
conservative comment.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:47:25 clearclaw2 tweaks the post language.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:48:49 clearclaw2 Resolving the values is a
mechanical chore at this point. The potential of pulling the game end down to
somewhere in the 20s of prestige is far more interesting, especially if the
multiplier edges are logarithmically spaced.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:49:31 clearclaw2 (logarithmic spacing is
something I should have done long ago, but was too damn lazy)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:49:40 cocadieta Does that shorten the game or
is that mostly to compensate for prestige deflation?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:49:52 clearclaw2 Prestige is actually
inflated.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:49:56 clearclaw2 (under the new rules)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:50:40 clearclaw2 it is to shorten the game and
potentially honour a precent of Chris Farrell's that I've half a mind to (dis)agree
with: that the game should end which there's still stuff to do
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:50:41 cocadieta OK, it looks like VP for kula
is back in, yeah?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:50:51 clearclaw2 s/precent/precept/
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:50:58 clearclaw2 Only for reciprocals
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:51:34 cocadieta Good! My gut feeling is that
that's great, really the right way to go.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:51:52 clearclaw2 Which, the VPs or the
scaling?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:52:00 cocadieta VPs.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:52:11 clearclaw2 nods
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:52:11 cocadieta VPs for reciprocals.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:52:36 cocadieta Was Chris Farrell's comment
about games in general or OP in particular? Or both?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:52:37 clearclaw2 It is tricky to maintain
recpients as being potentially more benefitted by the gift than the primary giver
is
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:52:53 clearclaw2 About games in general. He's
said/written it many times.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:53:28 cocadieta Recipients shouldn't be
'potentially' more benefited, they should be 'almost always' more benefited.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:53:29 clearclaw2 The primary reason for VPs on
kula originally was to provide a significant possible value to the recipient, a
calue they may or may not realise but which was larger than the value the giver
got.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:54:35 clearclaw2 The reciprocal part makes
that hard. There's less prestige available there, but there are paltry few
VPs,,,,and the whole reciprocity model allows for some really ugly
coopetition/collusion models that can run away.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:54:43 cocadieta Prestige seems to be 3x more
valuable than points, so I'm happy to give you scads of points in exchange for some
prestige.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:55:00 cocadieta I understand (run-away etc
etc)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:55:18 clearclaw2 I can't make them worth that
many points, as then the points trade up 1:1 or bettter to kula
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:55:41 cocadieta Basically I agree with Chris,
though that's a feature I think is most important in economic engine games.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:55:41 clearclaw2 Would essentially equal
receiving a kula and VPs enough to make a new free one! that's too rich
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:55:52 clearclaw2 nods economic engine.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:56:17 cocadieta I know! That's why I hated
the points for kula to begin with! hated is maybe a little strong.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:56:24 clearclaw2 Wealth of Nations is
interesting in that regard. It ends just *before* there's nothing left to do.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:56:48 clearclaw2 The toned down kahuna should
help you a lot there.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:57:19 cocadieta I'm having a hard time
getting excited about Wealth of Nations even though both you and Dave 'Emile' L
like it a lot.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:57:24 clearclaw2 delivering to your own Kahuna
gets you VPs, not double resources.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:57:41 cocadieta That's an unusual
intersection.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:57:48 cocadieta I like that kahuna change.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:58:14 clearclaw2 I'm not wild about it. I
have it in fast rotation ATM. I'm not convinced the game isn't degenerate and
reduceable to just geometry.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:58:29 clearclaw2 (wild about WoN)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:59:46 clearclaw2 But, it has strong parallels
in Container. Not parallels with the most interesting bits, but in under-served
markets, mutual-trade benefits, rade-efficiency, etc.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 18:59:50 cocadieta (I'd like that kahuna change
more if VPs weren't so easily liquidated!)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:00:18 clearclaw2 On average it is going to be
3Vps which is a fish and shell
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:00:47 clearclaw2 3:1 on Vps is deliberate for
the early game network/production ramp. I can't make it more expensive.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:01:00 clearclaw2 More expensive and the early
game strangles too easily.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:01:54 cocadieta I hear you, which is why I
like my princes of florence suggestion of accepting either points or resources when
you're owed points.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:02:06 clearclaw2 As I've been argueing with
Seth, OP is not a resource management game, not unless you consider an income
stream a resource. It certainly is not a game of managing individual fish, shells,
VPs etc.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:02:18 clearclaw2 nods PoF.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:03:23 clearclaw2 Currently points come from 3
places: markets, reciprocal giving, and delivering through your own kahuna.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:03:43 clearclaw2 I also backed out on trading
kula for VPs as that did bad things to both markets.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:04:02 cocadieta uh huh
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:07:07 cocadieta Not to harp or put too fine a
point on it, but a dynamic I like is one of 'banking' points vs. keeping them
somewhat liquid. Indonesia does that really nicely with its turn order auction. If
I'm always liquid 100% of the time, I don't know why I'm bothering with managing
fish v. shell routes at all.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:07:55 cocadieta (Whether this dynamic is
interesting to you is another matter entirely but it should help give you an idea
of where i'm coming from philosophically)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:08:25 clearclaw2 40-60 of final score is VPs
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:08:32 clearclaw2 (%)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:09:08 clearclaw2 You need fish v shell for
kula and bidding control.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:09:19 seo@dinner good night, meeple people!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:09:47 cocadieta Night seo.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:09:49 clearclaw2 has to run a minute --
gamenight.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:11:37 cocadieta We'll pick this up later
then. Hey, when are you sending my copy of Pampas?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:12:32 Zzzzz-stillworking night seo... wish
we both had time to chat!!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:12:44 Zzzzz-stillworking sadasd
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:12:47 clearclaw2 Hopefully this Saturday.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:13:06 clearclaw2 has a lot of shipping lables
to print first
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:13:51 cocadieta I believe it. Seems like
you're not getting too much grief from anyone, at least not publicly--amazing what
10 years of expectation management can do!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:13:56 cocadieta seo@dinner quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:16:02 clearclaw2 Hehn.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:16:27 clearclaw2 I also get a lot of leeway
because I'm nto a store, just a shmoe doing stupid things in his spare time.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:17:05 cocadieta LOL. Have you read some of
the other threads on BGG?
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:17:29 cocadieta The BGG sense of entitlement
does not have any boundaries!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:17:32 clearclaw2 Yep, especially for VG
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:17:53 clearclaw2 will engage in biggus dickus
tablus if necessary.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:18:01 cocadieta I like to give Valley grief
because they are so mismanaged.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:18:23 clearclaw2 They're amateurs out of their
depth. I give them credit for trying.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:18:37 cocadieta I think Kevin Nesbitt makes
Tony Snow look like a professional.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:18:50 clearclaw2 While they've made a lot of
small errors I haven't seen anything particularly fatal yet.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:18:59 clearclaw2 doesn't know Tony Snow.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:19:23 cocadieta He was our last press
secretary. He didn't do a very good job!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:19:30 clearclaw2 Ahh.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:19:40 clearclaw2 gets ready to leave for
gamenight.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:20:02 Zzzzz-stillworking game
night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! ! ! ! !
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:20:12 cocadieta Enjoy!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:20:15 clearclaw2 3rd one in a row no less....
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:20:19 clearclaw2 Thanks.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:20:51 Zzzzz-stillworking take a video....
make it look like I am at the table so I can watch it and feel like I am playing!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:20:52 cocadieta It's a busy sumer here. I
missed my second game night in a row due to work.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:20:54 clearclaw2 leaves.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:21:16 Zzzzz-stillworking yeah I am working
WAY too much for the *summer*
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:21:16 clearclaw2 hehn. Not sure my little
camera has capacity for that.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:21:38 clearclaw2 I'll miss next Weds and maybe
next Monday. Will see.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:21:40 Zzzzz-stillworking thanks anyways...
thought it was worth a try..
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:21:50 clearclaw2 Adieau!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:21:57 cocadieta Capacity for what? I'm
missing messages.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:22:23 clearclaw2 capacity to film my gamenight
for Zzzzz
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:22:24 Zzzzz-stillworking i ask for a video
of the games in a perspective that made me feel like I was playing...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:22:37 cocadieta Ha!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:22:42 clearclaw2 I should send you M&B too --
it is a most odd game.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:22:45 Zzzzz-stillworking anyways go play
already!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:22:59 cocadieta Stick it in with Pampas.
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:23:06 clearclaw2 really goes now. Shut up so
I don't keep getting distracted! No nekkid wimmin!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:23:09 cocadieta Yeah, I'm out of here too. I
need to get back to work!
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:23:12 Zzzzz-stillworking i need games...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:23:15 Zzzzz-stillworking lol
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:23:23 Zzzzz-stillworking later... I am here
but working...
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:30:46 Zzzzz-stillworking Zzzzz-stillworking
changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-runs away....
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 19:30:50 Zzzzz-runs away.... Zzzzz-runs
away.... quit
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 20:41:38 Zzzzz Zzzzz quit
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 23:19:45 kj hi
ch_SpielTalk! 04/06/2008 23:27:05 cocadieta kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 03:03:22 seo Hi there
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 03:12:01 clearclaw How goes out there?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 03:13:03 clearclaw tired
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 03:13:14 clearclaw waves and totters off.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 03:13:30 seo just getting upearly to work
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 03:13:47 seo have some good rest! :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 03:13:57 clearclaw THanks
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:22:22 Seth "problem loading page" when trying
to dload the rules and player aid.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:22:46 seo for what game?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:23:02 Seth Ohana Proa
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:23:07 Seth that comment was for JC
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:23:52 seo but I think he's sleeping right now
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:24:18 Seth I know I figure he'll see it later
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:24:22 Seth I should be asleep!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:24:27 Seth It's 3:19am
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:24:28 Seth gah!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:24:39 Seth Hey, hope everything's OK down in
Montevideo
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:24:52 Seth seems like I haven't chatted with
you much lately
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:24:53 seo I hope that too ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:24:59 Seth Also, I haven't seen Nando around
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:25:02 Seth weird
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:25:04 seo I've been quite busy
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:25:09 Seth well, goodnight!
sej-SLEEP
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 04:25:19 seo sleep tight!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 06:07:54 seo hi and bye, gotta run!
seo-AFK
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 06:08:06 Zzzzz-stillworking later..
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 06:08:10 Zzzzz-stillworking you run too much!
quit
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 07:41:06 clearclaw2 sej-SLEEP quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 08:46:10 seo-AFK seo-AFK changes his/her
nickname to seo
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 08:46:52 seo ahhhh.... finished running (for a
very short while at least)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:20:29 kj morning all
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:23:48 seo hi
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:30:44 doho123 any big events going on
recently?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:32:15 seo women's Roland Garros semifinal,
but I guess you weren't asking about that
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:32:47 kj hey got a game design question if
anyone has a minute...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:33:07 doho123 does it involve using the big
words that clearclaw and Seth always use?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:33:34 kj no - little words like color and
tile. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:33:52 doho123 oh, shoot
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:33:58 kj cool :)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:34:08 kj so game is basically a color
matching tile game
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:34:15 doho123 no smilies
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:34:19 kj vaguely carcassonne with colors
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:34:40 kj now for interesting scoring I have
two options that compete with each other
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:34:44 kj so I have to pick one
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:34:58 kj A) make some colors less common
than others, but if you match them, more points.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:35:15 kj or 2) each player at the beginning
of the game chooses a color, and that color
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:35:33 kj is worth more points to them, but
obviously the colors distribution on the tiles has to be equal then.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:36:13 kj comments?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:36:25 doho123 my preference, without
knowing anything else about the game would be selection 2
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:37:15 kj thanks...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:37:43 kj I like that it gives more
possibility for player interaction - the hardest part of game design for me.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:37:55 kj (in abstract games at least)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 09:41:07 kj gotta go - see y'all later
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 10:44:11 Dralius joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 10:49:20 seo Dralius quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 11:34:29 Zzzzz-stillworking .
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 11:35:22 Gogolski Are you bored at work, Zzzzz?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 11:37:02 clearclaw Seth: Both URLs for the OP
docs are fine.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 11:45:19 clearclaw lo Rick
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 11:51:54 Rick hi J. C.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 11:52:08 Rick At work, so responding
intermittently.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 12:05:09 clearclaw Also
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2372535#2372535 I mostly declare the
game in Wealth of Nations to be absent.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:01:41 Zzzzz-stillworking no no bored is an
understatement... I am overly busy with a to different
clueless/disorganized/disfunctional clients...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:02:14 Zzzzz-stillworking with two*
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:18:10 Zzzzz-around... doho123 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:26:11 Zzzzz-stillworking GamesOnTheBrain
quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:39:32 Zzzzz-stillworking so many people, so
quiet!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:40:50 Seth JC: still unable to connect
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:40:56 Seth I'll try from work (when I get
there)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:41:02 Seth I stayed home sick this morning
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:41:17 Gogolski Yep... I'm busy reading some
astronomy news and changing the rules for "The Hands"... I should write a short
report about yesterday's playtest too...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:41:58 Zzzzz-stillworking ah.. well at least
some of us are *enjoying* our time
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:43:50 Gogolski I should also get to bed (I
only had 3 hours of sleep last night, due to the playtest and some discussion and
social talk afterwards... Early shifts this week, gotta get up at 4.15 AM)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:45:49 Gogolski btw...
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/images/user/54019
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:48:08 GamesOnTheBrain JC, you there?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 13:48:39 Zzzzz-stillworking Seth quit
(timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:01:34 Gogolski GamesOnTheBrain quit
(timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:27:00 Seth what's shakin'?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:27:46 Gogolski Has anybody made a zuntzu box
yet? If so, is it difficult (I all ready have almost every image I would need for
pieces, cards and the board...)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:27:57 Gogolski Hi seth!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:28:22 Seth jwarrand did, and Brykovian did
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:28:28 Seth Neat pics
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:28:37 Seth is that you (sans head) in the
second one?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:29:00 Gogolski No, that's Bart, I'm holding
the camera thing
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:29:14 Seth in case Doho shows up...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:29:19 Seth someone said a link wasn't working
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:29:30 Seth ... camera [i]thing[/i]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:30:12 Gogolski Well, it's a very old digital
camera, not very good...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:30:31 Gogolski Needs loads of light and
reacts extremly slowly...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:30:49 Gogolski Speak of the devil...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:45:50 Gogolski Ok, I read throught the "how
to make a gamebox" section on the Zuntzu website. I need to try that... I'm off to
bed now. talk to you laters!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 14:48:04 Zzzzz-stillworking devil the of speak
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:07:25 Seth ... when is the GDS? Next week?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:08:07 Seth .. also for scott: "In a lot of
cases, I’m always more interested..."
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:10:24 clearclaw Bugger. Seth: The rules/aid
link are good.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:11:36 Seth Zzzzz-stillworking quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:12:26 clearclaw Meanwhile it seems that OS X
doesn't have Computer Modern as a typeface by default?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:12:33 clearclaw sighs.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:13:46 clearclaw Ben:
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:14:42 clearclaw Wealth of Nations: much
busywork, mostly game absent with 4 players.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:16:58 Seth JC: they come up now (at work) - I
had a problem at home
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:16:59 Seth weird
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:17:32 clearclaw We've spoken of this before.
Something you have at home doesn't like FTP URLs.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:17:46 Seth I guess
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:19:04 Seth dunno what's up with my home comp
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:19:06 Seth it's crap
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:19:16 Seth and I don't understand stuff well
enough to fix it
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:19:29 Seth it's also kinda old and sluggish, I
might like a new comp
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:19:32 Seth prolly a laptop
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:24:35 Seth a third time for when Scott
arrives: Do you really need *3* cards per encounter? Couldn't you split the info to
like player on top half, creature on bottom half or something? Seems like you
should be able to get 2 different 'random' combat results off of just pairing 2
cards.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:24:40 Seth thoguh I guess 3 isn't aweful
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:25:04 Seth Oh, or maybe creature on left,
player on right or something
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:25:23 Seth clearclaw: rules printed (and
player aids)
http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/2008/06/05/game-observances/decomposing-wealth-of-
nations/
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/311303 How good could this game possibly
be?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:34:40 clearclaw I do still need to reply to
Seth's and Ben's comments. On the list...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:40:37 clearclaw That looks like a fine sort
of game for people who like that sort of thing.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:46:05 Seth Their story is pretty sad I guess
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:46:15 Seth what list are you referring to?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:47:05 clearclaw To do list
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:47:29 Seth ah
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:47:41 Seth which comments are you referring
to?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:54:36 clearclaw Your's and Ben's on my blog
http://www.marketanalysisconsulting.com/archives/3226 I love automated ping-
back spam.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:57:09 clearclaw Looks like they just have a
filter running on Technorati.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 15:59:46 Seth etothepi posted another comment on
http://sedjtroll.blogspot.com/2008/06/precise-planning-vs-conditional.html
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:00:12 Seth "once you've figured out those
probabilities and make your choice, you are still doing no more than casting the
dice and suffering the probabilistically random consequences"
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:02:32 Seth ... in other news, hopefully
playing Brass tongiht
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:02:41 Seth OR I could bail on games and go to
frisbee
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:02:43 Seth :/
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:02:49 Seth I hate when frisbee is on game
night
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:03:16 Seth but then I have so many friends
coming over for games so often that I prolly ought to play frisbee while I can
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:19:31 Seth Sorry to hear WoN hasn't help up to
scrutiny
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:19:58 Seth I have no idea how to play it, but
are the loans similar to shares in RRT?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:21:19 clearclaw First loan is worth $20,
second 19, third 18 etc. Loans may be repaid for $25 at any time. Unpaid loans
count at -3VP. Money is worth $10/VP.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:21:44 clearclaw ./me commented in reply to
etothepi.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:22:45 clearclaw I've enjoyed my 5 plays of
WoN. I'll likely enjoy the next few 5 player games as well. Ultimately I'll be
able to sell it for a large portion of what I paid or it. That seems a resonable
exchange.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:23:55 clearclaw afk
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:24:31 Seth I like the idea of the loan
mechanic...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:24:47 Seth but as you say, the loss is not
very big
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:26:03 Seth you end up making money (I
presume), and paying off 8 of them 'costs' 6 or 7 points.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:26:59 Seth for an up front amount of money
($132)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:28:06 Seth (published comment)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:40:30 clearclaw Your numbers sound slightly
off without actually checking them, but yes, that'e the brunt
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:41:28 clearclaw Removing the loans from teh
game would require actually determining balanced liquidity in the early game.
Determining that, across the variance of placment opportunities, is HARD.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:42:29 clearclaw I talked with their lead
playtester. Short summary: They did not playtest with experienced, aggressive
calculating gamers. They playtested primarily with heavy-side-of-casual gamers.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:42:48 clearclaw (social heavy gamers)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:43:06 clearclaw The game breaks because you
can push it to the wall and it breaks when it hits the wall.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:44:12 clearclaw Pushing it to the wall
requires issueing loans out the wazoo. The only people who are going to be willing
to do that off the get-go are those already comfortable with massive deficit
spending, and that's not the normal bear.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:45:16 clearclaw I'm long trained by AoS in
the ways of deficit spending, so that's the first thing I did. The other players
thought I was insane. I won by a landslide.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:45:53 clearclaw The much larger concern is
that massive deficit spending also allows the game to end very quickly, possibly as
quickly as 4 rounds -- long before the debts can be repaid.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:46:54 clearclaw That puts a false decision in
the game: if you don't deficit spend more you lose ground, but if you do, the game
could end before you recoup. There's no winning that decision: all the controls
are in other player's hands
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:54:45 Seth 8 loans you get
20+19+18+17+16+15+14+13=132
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:55:07 Seth to pay it back you have to pay
25*8=200
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:55:16 Seth 200-132=68
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:55:27 Seth $68 is worth 6 or 7 points if you
had it in cash
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:56:24 Seth every loan you pay back is -3 if
you don't
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:56:29 Seth and -2.5 if you do
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:56:33 Seth that's lame
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:57:00 Seth without even playing I can totally
see what you mean by the penalty being crap
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:57:12 Seth the loans should like be
increasingly bad...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:57:30 clearclaw The -3 vs -2.5 is one of the
few modestly interesting portions of the set.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:57:34 Seth like in Homesteaders... -1/-2/-3/-
4/-5/-6 or something
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:58:00 Seth how is that interesting?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:58:03 clearclaw I've taken as many as 12
loans and paid them all off. That's not a problem.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:58:25 clearclaw The 2.5/3 business just puts
a challenge there for early game termination.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:58:27 Seth It's possibly you shouldn't even
bother paying off the last loan
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:59:01 Seth I'd say off the bat it should be
$30
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:59:03 Seth to pay off
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:59:18 Seth and the penalty for not should
probably be like -3/-4/-5...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:59:24 clearclaw http://builtwith.com/?
Kanga.nu Woot! I score 0 out of 5!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 16:59:40 Seth then it might not be a no brainer
to borrow like crazy
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:00:36 Seth Tim (Games on the Brain) suggested
at some point in playtesting that a loan be an action - that might help... or not
as you said, people would just take the actions taking loans
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:00:42 Seth in Brass taking a loan is an action
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:00:47 clearclaw Even at that rate it would
remain
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:00:48 Seth but there are a limioted number of
actions
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:01:00 clearclaw The action penalty in WoN
would be neglible.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:01:31 Seth maybe the laons should go down in
value quicker too, like 20/15/10/5 rather than 20/19/18...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:01:36 Seth or 20/18/16...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:01:57 Seth right, I get the feeling that WoN
is not a limited number of actions game
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:01:58 clearclaw That doesn't change the
problem.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:02:43 Seth it would make the loans more and
more expensive to pay off faster
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:02:50 Seth currently it's just $1 more per
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:02:52 Seth and that's nothing
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:03:20 Seth it sounds like it needs to be more
of a risk to take a loan
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:03:22 Seth more of a decision
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:03:24 clearclaw That ramp is the same for
everyone. It doesn't change the game. All it does is slow the start.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:03:51 clearclaw Yes, in that there is
literally no decision there until you get around 10 of them. The only question is
how many?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:03:55 Seth In AoS the ramp is the same for
everyone
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:03:58 Seth ditto RRT
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:04:24 Seth but you have people taking
different amounts of shares because in those games the penalties are such that you
don't want to borrow more than you need
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:04:30 clearclaw Right but those games have
different values across players. WoN doesn't.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:04:59 Seth so in WoN it sounds like the
penalties need to be sharper to the point where you don't want to borrow more than
you have to
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:05:21 clearclaw Were I developing WoN I'd
toss the loans entirely, make the draught changes I mentioned and then look at
growing the physical size of the draught pools as a game accellerant
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:05:32 Seth how do those games have different
values across players? Each share gives each player the same amount of cash and the
same negative
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:05:33 clearclaw No, that's the wrong problem.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:05:52 clearclaw Eahc player has a discrete
board positionw ith a largely unique financial future.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:06:03 clearclaw In Won they...don't.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:06:20 Seth Now i don't knwo what [i]other[/i]
problems WoN has, but just looking at the loan thing it seems pointelss, and to
make it not pointless, the penalites for taking a loan should be more harsh
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:06:44 Seth oh, well in that case perhaps
[[i]that[/i] is WoN's problem.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:06:48 clearclaw To make it not pointless you
need the VALUE of a lon to be different to different players.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:07:00 Seth I'll have to play it ometime, but I
suspect the loan thing will be equally stupid
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:07:30 Seth ‹clearclaw› In Won they...don't. <-
this sounds like a serious underlying problem
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:07:54 clearclaw Absolutely. It is the
primary basis behind my comment that the markets don't really work
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:10:00 clearclaw WoN has a graph of currencies
which trade for each other at three levels (market-buy, market-sell and suggested-
player). All currencies are completely fingible with all others by translating
through cash or not at the player's behest. As a result they have many
colours...that are all the same.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:11:00 Seth I feel that way about the resources
in Stone Age
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:11:16 Seth there are 4 different things, but
really they're all just different denominations
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:11:31 Seth but you can't really change one
into another
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:11:33 Seth so there's that
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:11:53 clearclaw Yeah, I've seen that pattenr
before.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:12:07 clearclaw I was tempted down that road
with OP but recovered
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:17:17 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] ..
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:17:41 Seth hi dave
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:23:23 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] hey...
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:23:45 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] i so
miss chat/game discussions [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:25:23 Seth we were just having an interesting
discussion of Loan mechanics
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:25:57 Seth evidently Wealth of Nations' loan
mechanic is lacking
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:26:34 Seth I like RRT's Shares mechanic
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:26:42 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] ah
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:26:44 Seth I also like Homesteaders' debt
mechanic.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:26:45 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] i have
not heard/seen anything about WoN, might need to go read about it for fun [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:26:45 Seth You can take a debt chp at any time
and $2
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:26:46 Seth at the ed of the game you can pay
off debt for $5/chip
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:26:55 Seth unpaid debt is -1/-2/-3/-4... vp
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:28:06 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] so
basically you have to hope you have enough $ to remove the penalty... so my guess
is that is not usually an issue? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:30:00 Seth well, it makes it an interesting
decision... you can always get enough money to do what you want, but is it worth
it?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:30:23 Seth in WoN it sounds like it's so easy
to pay off loans, and if you don't pay it off the penalty isn't bad anyway
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:30:34 Seth so it's basically "yes, it's worth
it" all the time
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:31:40 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] yeah I
am reading the rules... i was sucked it at just the visual of the hex pieces and
the partial/full dot ideas on it [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:32:13 clearclaw should write an article on
butterfly effects.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:32:27 clearclaw WoN suffers direly for their
lack.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:32:31 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] why is
that? [/color]
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:32:46 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] beyond
the loan issue, is it a *good* game? [/color]
http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/2008/06/05/game-observances/decomposing-wealth-of-
nations/
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:33:13 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] for some
reason the hex dot thing has me interested. i guess it stems from the post a WHILE
back about other ways to *use* a hex in interesting ways [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:33:32 clearclaw quotes, After 5 plays and
observing about a half-dozen more games we’re now mostly convinced that the game in
Wealth of Nations is mostly absent. More simply it is grossly under-developed.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:33:48 clearclaw The hex dot thing is
interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:34:00 clearclaw Quite clever.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:34:23 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] ah...
well many games are *under developed*, just life of must forms of entertainment!
IMO [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:34:35 clearclaw But the ratio of dots to
values is fixed, and the ratio of dots to cubes to values is fixed etc etc etc
across all colours, so in effect they are all the same.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:35:05 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] oh... so
placement/use of the dots does not really *influence* the game? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:35:14 clearclaw WoN is sufficiently under-
developed that with 4P there's not actually much game there. A lot of exercise,
but not much game.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:35:48 clearclaw The dot patterns force
different tesselation patterns for the different industries, which is core to
pretty much the only interesting part of the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:36:03 clearclaw 5P may be a lot better. It
may actually rescue the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:36:09 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] ah...
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:36:16 clearclaw Not enough to be a good game,
but enough to be worth playing
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:37:23 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] are the
rules a little *disorganized*? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:40:46 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] nvm, I
was screwed up by the double column formatting [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:41:04 clearclaw The rules aren't particularly
bad.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 17:52:32 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] yeah
that loan concept is a little odd... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:04:38 Seth ... reading WoN rulse
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:04:51 Seth I see how it makes no difference if
it costs an action to take a loan
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:05:01 Seth you keep taking actions until
everyone's done
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:05:10 Seth so yeah, that would be lame as hell
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:07:17 Seth their TIP-BARTER PRICE hint
suggests breaking the "only barter with 1 person at a time" rule
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:14:35 Seth these rules sound not bad
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:14:46 Seth I'll have to try the game some time
and see what you mean JC
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:19:27 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] yeah
that tip is just totally contradicting their other rule [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:21:11 Seth JC
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:21:30 Seth you said that the players don't
have asymmetric positions and all cubes are worth the same to all players?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:21:59 Seth seems like the value of each
colored cube will chnge over the course of the game, and player's positions once
they start building industry tiles will differ
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:22:13 Seth so cubes shoudl be worth different
amounts to different players
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:22:21 Seth depending on their color
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:22:30 Seth and what industries thay have to
run
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:22:59 Seth taht's a pretty darn good rulebook
btw
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:23:02 Seth clear
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:23:05 Seth and nice graphics
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:23:14 Seth and tips, even if a little silly in
places
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:24:03 Seth i do see where you could take all
those loans, have a drawn out first round where everyone just throws down lots of
tiles
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:24:29 Seth maybe if you could only take 1 loan
per round, that would beinteresting
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:24:37 Seth you might go ahead and do it every
round
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:24:42 Seth but that's probably fine
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:25:03 Seth I personally think it would be
interesting if you could EITHER take a loan OR pay a loan 1x/round
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:25:19 Seth so you have to start paying off
loans or you'll be stuck with them
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:25:44 Seth could be at the start of the round,
once around, take/pay loan, then move into the actiosn
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:33:36 clearclaw The values cubes do change
over time as a property of player actions, but not hugely. Max is about 75%-100%
IIRC and that only slowly. It is relatively easy to inflate and delfate prices via
building and thence production.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:33:53 clearclaw But a given black is worth
the same value to EVERYONE.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:38:02 Seth howso?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:38:18 Seth is it not worth more to a player
looking to build a Factory/
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:38:39 Seth than to a person looking to build a
something-that-doesn't-need-black?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:39:05 clearclaw All players want to build
tiles every turn ALWAYS. There's only one tile that doesn't need black to build
-- black tiles.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:39:24 Seth lets see how my retention is... you
need food to run buldings, you need Energy to run blocs of buildings... you need
various cubes to buid various buildings
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:39:32 clearclaw The external value of blacks
are fixed via the market pruchase and sell prices
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:39:41 clearclaw Yes
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:39:42 Seth so black is the only cube that's
worth the same to everyone?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:41:18 clearclaw No, ditto the rest. Yellow
is worth maginallyless to the player with yellow buildings and blue to the player
with blue buildings, ditto for the other colours, but that's about it.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:42:23 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] ok I am
an idiot, but where in the rules does it stay what a player starts with? I do not
see any money allocated to the players at start, so how can you buy notes in the
first turn? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:42:38 clearclaw The one element that
differentiates is board/are/hex control/access.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:43:02 clearclaw Players start with nothing.
Loans cost nothing to take. The game starts with a draught of a mix of tiles,
money and cubes.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:43:13 clearclaw All the draght sets are
nominally of equal value.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:43:13 Seth you get a starting package which
includes money
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:43:18 Seth and you don't buy loans, you just
take them
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:43:21 clearclaw No, you don't get it, you
select it
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:43:36 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] yepp see
that now, thanks [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:43:56 Seth you "get"t he one you "select"
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:43:58 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] oh thats
right, you *pay* later [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:44:00 Seth :P
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:44:13 Seth yeah, like a "loan" :p
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:44:42 Zzzzz-around... did previously state <--
an idiot!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:44:54 Seth So you are saying that everyone
wants all the cubes all the time?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:44:57 clearclaw I fthe rule that each
player's first draught has to be tiles it would be possible to end the draught
without any money.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:45:23 Seth that sentence didn't make sense
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:45:25 clearclaw Everyone wants cubes all the
time, yes. Even in the end-game as they trade for money which trades for VPs.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:45:48 Seth and everyone wants the same cubes
equally all the time?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:45:59 clearclaw Err, if the rule that each
player's first draught had to be tiles weren't present it would possible to end the
draught without any money.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:46:04 Seth that last I doubt, because it seems
more efficient tospecialize
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:46:12 clearclaw No, each player wants a
slightly different mix of cubes.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:46:34 Seth So what's the problem?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:46:55 clearclaw Almost every player will want
some number of all 5 colours. The mix will vary among players.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:47:51 Seth How different is that to saying
that in container everyone wants some combination of factories and werehouses?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:47:59 Seth heh, I said "werehouse" again
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:48:06 Seth watch out for those when there's a
full moon!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:48:07 clearclaw The problem at that level is
that nobody wants what they produce (nominal exception for red), and the external
trade value of what you produce is a) fixed, and b) almost entirely a function of
other player's actions (ie are they producing it as well).
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:48:41 Seth so in your experience everyone
produces some of each resource?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:49:14 clearclaw While there is a small curve
in demand for some resources, like red tails off late, the actual net demand for
cubes of a given colour is pretty much flat across players.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:49:35 clearclaw No, each player produces two
and in the late game a third because it is cheaper to get VPs as tiles than cubes.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:50:01 Seth I'll have to try the game to see if
I agree with what you mean
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:50:10 Seth but right now, It's off to play
Brass!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:50:46 Seth see ya, all
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:51:16 clearclaw Think of it this way I need a
black. I don't have any back. Do I really care if I buy from the market or from
another player? Do I really care if I trade cubes or cash? Answer: No. It is
more efficient to trade cubes with players, but the deltas aren't huge or painful.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 18:54:47 Zzzzz-around... Seth quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:36:42 cocadieta Popping my head in...
http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/2008/06/05/ohana-proa/reflections-on-an-atoll/
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:37:29 clearclaw Mostly a reply to you
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:39:43 cocadieta Great, I'll take a look as
soon as I get myself settled.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:40:25 clearclaw Mostly a muddled rant about
resource management games and how OP is and isn't one.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:47:41 cocadieta Fabulous and impassioned
reply!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:48:58 clearclaw Thank you
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:49:49 cocadieta I know exactly what you're
talking about in that post. I knew that my comments and suggestions were generally
moving away from the type of game you were interested in, but I hadn't heard a
particularly firm definition of the space you *did* want to inhabit.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:50:31 clearclaw nods. Without going back
over the blog history I'm not sure I'd stated that before. I kinda think I had,
but perhaps not so explicitly.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:51:09 clearclaw The concept of continual
affluence is, in part, a deliberate swimming-upstream against the flood of
managing-scarcity games.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:51:33 cocadieta The closest you got was an
offhand comment in a post or an email that said you only had a general idea of what
constituded good play.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:51:34 clearclaw Hmm, I should add that to the
post.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:51:51 clearclaw That remains true.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:52:23 cocadieta What it communicated to me
was that in OP, by design or not, players' influence over the game was more
magnetic than manual.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:52:48 clearclaw What which communicated?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:53:00 cocadieta the offhand comment.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:53:06 clearclaw (and yes, the magnetic/manual
division is deliberate/desired
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:53:09 clearclaw Ahh
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:54:22 cocadieta I've been playing Devil's
Advocate a bit, knowing more or less that you wanted players to have that type of
control.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:54:41 cocadieta So I've been saying, "OP is
impossible! I do not have the manual control over the game I am looking for!"
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:54:57 clearclaw (added as a footnote)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:55:12 clearclaw I appreciate and noticed
that.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:55:30 clearclaw Your WC comments revealed
that you were not that unobservant.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:58:12 cocadieta So this is great. I think
this has been a really helpful series of discussion for the game. The true busywork
has gotten tightened up, and the important noise sticks around.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:58:39 clearclaw Agreed. Not sure it is done
yet, but I like the changes.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:59:33 clearclaw I also now have a better
appreciation of the strucutre and focus of the game than I had, which is valuable.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 20:59:59 cocadieta That element, of magnetic
control, is what I like best about the 18xx series. It's notably lacking in 1829
and very pronounced in 1860.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:00:23 clearclaw ponders.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:01:21 clearclaw Its a function of
indirection, of implication versus direct linkage.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:02:24 cocadieta Yes, and a different sort of
investment.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:03:17 clearclaw Yeah, that attracted me to
the 18XX as well, but more I really liked the fact that they weren't single-act
plays. The eurogames are (nearly) invariably single note and single act plays.
Ba-da-da-dum and the game is done in one act. The 18XX conversely usually have
multiple acts, sometimes more, sometimes less, and planning out the number of acts
in the play plus their length was enourmously
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:04:07 clearclaw attractive to me. It still
is enourmously attractive, but now I also see the meta-level for the 18XX in which
they are almost all just 2.5 act plays with a two hinge points.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:04:19 clearclaw (sometimes a hinge point
becomes its own short act)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:04:57 cocadieta Act one, 4 trains, Act two,
Diesels, Act thr--hey the bank ran out of money!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:06:16 clearclaw Act #1: Set the Scene. Act
#2: Romance! Act #2.5: A quick marriage and dissolution.
http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/2008/05/28/ohana-proa/when-in-doubt-sink-the-
battleship/#comment2
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:13:30 cocadieta The amount of 'good noise' in
a game like 1860 is very high. None of it is 'bad noise' like the half-dividend
option of many 18xx.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:14:36 clearclaw In some ways the 18XX are a
delightfully Edwardian view of Victorian romance
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:14:48 cocadieta With 1860 company management,
or almost as much with 1856, I feel I'm trying to manage a large number of small
decisions that are all in service of a goal it is up to me to create.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:15:05 clearclaw nods. I wasn't aware you
were a fan of 1860. It is perhaps my favourite 18XX (that I've played).
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:15:37 cocadieta 1860 is probably my favorite
game, just such a treat with 2, 3, or 4.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:15:43 cocadieta Three games in one box, too.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:15:52 clearclaw Locally 1860 is viewed less
well, but I am stalwart.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:16:08 clearclaw I'd love to play it more. I
just put it in the crate to see if I can get it in rotation.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:16:24 cocadieta What are the basic
criticisms?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:17:42 clearclaw My main 18XX opponent is a
pure finance guy, makes his living as an ex-CFO and now financial advisor. He
loves the money management/prediction etc of the 18XX and is always an exciteable
source of financial schemery in 18XX games. To an extent he attempts to turn every
18XX into that meta-finance game.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:17:47 cocadieta 1860 has really phenomenal
board design, too. So much game packed into that itty bitty board. It buzzes with
energy.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:18:25 clearclaw That meta-finance game is not
the service that 1860 offers. The loathes the nationalisation rules, the blowing
through tokens, the fiddly minors, the fixed starting order etc.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:18:29 cocadieta OK
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:18:50 clearclaw I suspect without direct
evidence that 1841 is his ideal world.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:19:01 clearclaw (he has it, but I've not seen
him play it)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:19:30 clearclaw I also appreciate the
physical and forward implication density of the 1860 board.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:19:59 clearclaw I've often described it as
akin to the track wars that happen around NY in 1830, except now over about 2/3 of
the whole board.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:20:21 cocadieta Strange. 1860's market is one
of its most interesting features (but I've always been a market guy too).
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:20:27 clearclaw Many seemingly small
decisions have disproportionate meaning in 1860.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:21:14 clearclaw He kinda likes the market but
never fully groked how the yellow/etc bits worked and loathed the whole director-
less receivership etc bit.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:21:27 clearclaw I'm also fond of the market.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:21:34 cocadieta The shenanigans 1860's market
encourages are not nearly as, say, 'interactive' as an 1830-branch title.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:22:08 clearclaw Locally there's great praise
for 1846's market, most effusively from a local very competent player who loathes
WC for its arbitrary pick-on-people aspects.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:22:25 clearclaw True, it isn't '30.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:22:25 cocadieta But this allows them to be
more baroque. The twists and turns I put my companies through in 1860 are really
something else.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:22:52 clearclaw 30 also has the wall problem.
It is easy for the players to collude to ensure that any given company never ever
gets past the stock price wall.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:22:55 cocadieta I'm not familiar. What is
1846's market like, in a nutshell?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:23:05 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] so who
is going to write up a Thesis on all these game topics you discuss in chat? I am
sure over a few months there would be enough information passing through this chat
to actually achieve it! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:24:52 clearclaw `46: Pay <50% stock value ==
fall, pay over stock rise (possible multiples), otherwise stay still. Half pays
possible. Stock does not fall on sales. Very much financial building game. (I've
not played yet -- likely to very soon)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:25:07 clearclaw (details above may be wrong)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:25:35 clearclaw nods, grins Zzzzz. If the
chat were in IRC instead of a silly web form I'd have a robot logger that
maintained public web-archives.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:26:15 clearclaw Very much a Tom Lehmann game
is 1846, which I'm not sure is such a good thing for me.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:26:18 cocadieta I'm flattered, Zzzzz!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:27:04 cocadieta My line lately about Tom
Lehmann games is that he designs extraordinary titles that take 25 hours to learn.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:27:28 clearclaw Learn or play effectively?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:27:35 cocadieta B
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:27:44 clearclaw Agrees.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:27:47 Zzzzz-around... [color=#008080] i can
look into that for you, I just have been way to busy with work. so maybe I can get
the chat setup again and figure out how to connect it to IRC (which supposedly is
possible with the silly chat!) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:29:16 clearclaw Aaron Lawn's (Endgame Oakland
chap, BGN collumnist, skilled/experienced gamer and game retailer) comment on RftG
vs Glory to Rome was interesting (recent BGN column).
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:29:30 cocadieta I have no doubt that 2038 is
a magnificent game, but it's just impenetrable, and stumbling in the dark for three
games is more than I'm willing to give to that one.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:29:39 cocadieta I'll take a look.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:30:00 clearclaw 2038 probably requires and
experienced player to inculcate newbs.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:30:43 clearclaw I talked with him more on
that last night. One of his comments was that in Race there were N meta-patterns
and that no one card was particularly important or interesting. Each card just
supported one of the few meta patterns well and then the player's execure on that.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:30:50 Zzzzz-around... doho123 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:31:32 Zzzzz-around... Zzzzz-around... changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-sleepyland
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:31:35 clearclaw In GtR conversely congle
cards are immensely interesting and a single card in a player's hand can invert and
entirely rejigger that player's position and future intentions.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:31:36 cocadieta I agree with that.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:31:42 clearclaw s/congle/single/
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:32:00 cocadieta (with the first half. I
haven't played glory to rome)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:32:19 clearclaw Thus, for him, GtR supports
more of the dynamism and interest that good CCGs offer (which he's a great fan of).
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:33:15 clearclaw I played Race way back when
still a prototype and istnantly termed it a "filter game". Players form filters
and run the deck rapidly through them to catch cards they want.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:33:23 clearclaw I've not played GtR.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:33:34 cocadieta That's a terrific analogy.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:33:57 clearclaw I'm hopeful of getting Lords
of the Spanish Main on to the table with Aaron RSN.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:33:59 clearclaw Thanks.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:34:36 clearclaw (I didn't see much
interesting in a filter game and said so, which was not well received)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:34:49 cocadieta I think that shrewd filtering
and effective water pressure are very exciting challenges.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:35:05 cocadieta Criticism of Race for the
Galaxy is not very well-received anywhere!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:35:13 clearclaw Then again some years later I
also didn't think much of Tom Lehmann's and Joe Huber's reworking of 2038 into a
90-120 minute card game either.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:35:35 clearclaw My criticism was back a few
years before it was ever even submitted to RGG.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:35:44 cocadieta Golly.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:36:20 clearclaw does the ego glitteratie
privilege strut thang, booyah!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:36:29 clearclaw guffaws.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:36:53 clearclaw But it was clear even then,
there would be many who adore Race.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:37:23 cocadieta Puerto Rico presents the
exact same challenges of filtration and pressure.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:37:42 clearclaw I wonder why I'm not a fan of
PR!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:37:44 cocadieta Which I think is a show-
stopper of a game, as you know.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:37:56 clearclaw Many many many do.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:38:28 clearclaw I'm really not much of an
economic-engine-game kinda guy.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:38:37 cocadieta For sure.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:38:57 clearclaw Well, not yet. Evolution
happens.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:39:13 cocadieta It'll be interesting to see
what happens once Agricola gets into the hands of the general populace.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:39:31 clearclaw It burnt out locally very
fast.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:40:07 clearclaw The few stalwart fans don't
own copies and the few that do own copies had enough of it in about 2 months.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:40:47 clearclaw But more TtA has knocked it
for a loop. TtA gets played at more than 75% of all gamenights.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:41:02 cocadieta The game is so aggressively
about conflict avoidance that it's obvious the designer had some psychological
trauma to work out.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:41:16 cocadieta (Agricola)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:41:35 clearclaw I suspect more market and
posture.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:41:43 cocadieta I burned through my copy as
well. High hopes at first, and then the discovery that the game was actually about
*minimizing* interaction. Gaah!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:42:25 clearclaw Lehmann is also
excruciatingly zero-sum avoidant. Huber too. (I may be over sensitive)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:42:52 cocadieta Lehmann absolutely not, at
least where Race is concerned.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:43:14 clearclaw Race does have the whole
draughting thing.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:43:39 cocadieta It's exactly the same as
Puerto Rico.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:43:46 clearclaw But that's about as direct an
interaction, or perhaps auctions, as Lehmann likes.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:44:02 cocadieta Not to everyone's tastes to
be sure, but exactly the same.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:44:13 clearclaw One of Tom's goals for Race
was explicitly the whole "you can do everything always" bit.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:45:20 clearclaw At a cruder level he's a
great fan of the efficiency-race game. Each player does their own thing with a
modicum of competition in the middle and the player that is most efficient gets
over the finish line first/farthest.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:46:21 clearclaw In some ways I think Tom has
patented the personal tableau/board model.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:46:27 cocadieta Yes but 'modicum' isn't
right. It's a lot of competition and just because any single effect is tiny doens't
mean we aren't talking about a lot of competition.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:47:03 clearclaw I'm contrasting competition
with direct manual effect on other players.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:47:14 clearclaw Tom dislikes direct player
effect.s
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:47:22 cocadieta Yes.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:47:29 clearclaw (so does Joe)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:48:13 cocadieta Now I should really try one
of his games. Any recommendations? Ice Cream?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:48:17 clearclaw There is competition in
running faster, and there is competition in tripping the runners ahead of you and
stamping on their heads as you trample over them.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:48:25 clearclaw looks quickly
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:49:22 clearclaw I think I recall Scream
Machine as being interesting and oddly clever.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:49:40 clearclaw I don't recall being so
impressed with Ice Cream.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:49:42 cocadieta I don't know where this fits
into your Ultimate Fighter Running analogy, but Puerto Rico's style of competition
is about passive aggression. It's what makes the game such a showstopper because no
other game does it nearly as well or with such single-mindedness.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:49:50 clearclaw But these are faint memories.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:50:09 cocadieta I'll pick it up. I don't have
enough card games anyway.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:50:18 clearclaw isn't quite as Mortal Kombat
as all that.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:51:30 clearclaw Sticheln, Mu, David&Golaith,
Sieben Siegel are the card game staples for me with fluff backups in Hornochsen, R-
Eco and Dalmutti.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:52:53 clearclaw I wonder if my slamming of
Wealth of Nations will get much response? I suspect I'm too early in the curve for
that.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:53:13 cocadieta Trick-taking games don't do
anything for me I'm afraid. I often wish they did.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:53:29 clearclaw nods. Tichu fan?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:53:37 cocadieta I wish!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:54:46 clearclaw Capiche. 6Nimmt!
Hornochsen, China/KardinalundKonig, Taj Mahal?, Kogge?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:55:24 cocadieta I've played only K&K and
Kogge.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:55:43 cocadieta I thought Kogge was a
disaster and Kardinal didn't do anything for me though I could see its merits.
(http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/2008/06/05/game-observances/decomposing-wealth-
of-nations/ and http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2372535#2372535 and
surrounding threads for the Wealth of Nations stuff).
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:56:01 clearclaw Humpf. I adore Kogge.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:56:03 cocadieta Taj Mahal I've tried to get
interested in because of its pedigree, but every time I look I just turn up sand.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:56:10 clearclaw (adore may be strong, but I
like it a lot)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:56:40 cocadieta I've been following the
Wealth of Nations stuff, because I've been following the game casually trying to
find something for me there.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:56:49 clearclaw At this point I'd avoid.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:57:09 clearclaw I expect 5P to be better but
to not rescue the core problems.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:57:25 cocadieta It's been a 'skip but read
everything written about it until i am convinced otherwise' from the beginning.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:58:04 cocadieta Container was the last
success story using that model.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:58:35 clearclaw I largely use the same model.
My famous 6 month waiting list for any game before it is bought.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 21:58:57 clearclaw But I start collecting
information /very/ early, usually long before publication.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:00:51 cocadieta I have a major appreciation
for Dave L, so his interest in the game is worth something to me.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:01:03 clearclaw Dave L?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:01:11 cocadieta "Emile"
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:02:14 clearclaw Ahh, I've only recently
noticed him.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:02:50 clearclaw Not a voluble 'geek poster
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:02:53 cocadieta Not a prolific poster, but
very sharp. His taste in games doesn't match up too well with mine but he is very
insightful.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:03:17 clearclaw I'll wander his posts a bit.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:03:51 clearclaw I've not yet eaten today.
Gonna go hit the pot's'pans for a short bit. I'll catch scrollback.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:09:07 cocadieta Dave's best contributions to
BGG are about race, actually. I'll try to dig up one or two of his posts on the
subject, which you're free to read or ignore.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:10:57 cocadieta But he's such a relief from
the dominant idea that there is nothing offensive about games about, say, slavery,
except being offended by the games.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:12:15 cocadieta (exception to my trick-taking
allergy: blue moon, strangely enough!)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:15:13 cocadieta
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/item/570596#item570596 and don't miss
his killer follow-ups in the comments
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:15:34 clearclaw looks
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:18:32 clearclaw I remember that thread. I
thought the concentration comment poor as slavery had direct economic implications
on the industriesof the time where-as the concentration camps were much more
indirect and time-shifted.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:18:43 clearclaw (concentration camp)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:19:00 clearclaw I also note that my maternal
grandfather died in a Dutch concentration camp.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:20:38 clearclaw Yes, he's also remarkably
even-tempered and well focussed.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:20:51 clearclaw Admirable.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:21:32 clearclaw I presume you are more
personally part of the race question?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:22:19 clearclaw Or simply what the running
dog press so gleefully terms one of the minorities?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:25:30 cocadieta I'm a white male, though
being gay I do have a personal stake in these kinds of discussions.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:26:14 clearclaw Capiche. I have a fervent
dislike of the American model of institutionalised cultural disenfranchisement as
stereotyped token proxies.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:26:54 kj hi all
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:27:00 clearclaw lo kj
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:27:07 cocadieta Evening kj.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:28:10 kj Interesting post.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:28:32 kj the link above to BGG.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:29:13 kj what do you mean by "stereotyped
token proxies"?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:30:38 clearclaw Its the view of cultural
formation and evolution as a sort of dialectic process, that there are iconic
polars that exemplify the identities inquestion.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:31:32 cocadieta The concentration camp
analogy is a flawed one but not invalid. It says, "I don't care how you are
engaging with this aspect of the game on a mechanical level. This is how it is
possible to engage with this aspect of the game on an *emotional* level."
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:31:37 clearclaw Firth you set up the bully
pulpits, then you staff them, then you shoot at them.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:31:57 clearclaw s/Firth/First/
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:32:32 kj s/Its/It's/ too :_)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:33:08 kj :is parsing...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:33:28 clearclaw Which is why that response
resonated poorly here. I view emotions as the product of personal decisions and
not inherent or automatic.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:34:05 clearclaw It is perfectly fine to be
emotional about a great many things, great fun too, but that remains a personal
elective.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:34:34 kj Sorry but try as I might I'm not
fully following.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:34:56 clearclaw Ask away.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:35:31 cocadieta I disagree with your view of
emotions as purely the product of personal decisions but that's not a point that
needs mincing for purposes of this conversation.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:35:31 kj Are you saying that cultures formed
based on reactions to stereotypes?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:35:37 kj form (not formed)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:36:08 clearclaw nods Ben. It is not a
popular view.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:36:58 kj As to the game, I agree - would
"offend" me, for lack of a better word. The history is too recent and relevant.
Perhaps a game around Roman slavery would be palatable, since no one has relatives
that knew people who were Roman slaves.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:37:31 kj I would feel the same about a game
about taken property from Japanese Americans while they were in concentration
camps, too.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:37:37 clearclaw No, I'm saying tht America,
and esp American media described and defined culture based on a false dialectic
between canned stereotypes that same press has attempted to iconicise for the
precise purpose of then running that false dialectic in parody of actual discourse.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:38:05 cocadieta What is important is that
Dave is in that comment addressing people who also would not agree with that view.
He is calling them out on their hypocrisies.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:38:14 clearclaw Call it a carry-over of the
two-party system.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:38:57 clearclaw nods Ben on Dave. Thus I
observed his admirable focus and tone above.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:39:49 cocadieta I also personally object to
his placement of 'organ meats' in a list of monstrosities.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:39:57 kj Can you give me something on a
concrete example without using the word dialectic?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:40:12 kj (There's a reason I didn't go to
graduate school :) )
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:40:33 clearclaw I'm a particular fan of organ
meats. Stuffed oc heart is perhaps my favourite meat dish. Pigs kidneys are also
great.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:40:48 cocadieta Sweetbreads here.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:42:17 cocadieta kj, replace 'dialectic' with
'conversation'
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:42:18 clearclaw I'm using dialecting mostly
as a partial (inaccurate) shorthand for dialectiv materialism, which I'll describe
(even more inaccurately) as the premise that by banging opposites together truth
may be gleaned.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:42:18 clearclaw s/oc heart/ox heart/
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:43:04 kj likes regular expressions too :)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:43:51 clearclaw There's a whole premise that
by banging opposites together (conversationally or logically) any area may be
better defined and forwarded. Very popular with the sub-atomic scientists too I'm
told.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:44:40 cocadieta Cute but you're being
disingenuous.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:45:00 cocadieta By banging opposites
together, any area may indeed be better defined and forwarded.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:45:22 kj seeks concretitude.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:45:27 cocadieta By banging straw men together
though, you're not doing anything but banging straw men together.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:45:31 clearclaw Fundamentally disagreed.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:45:45 clearclaw (with banging opposites)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:45:53 clearclaw (agreed with straw men)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:46:52 clearclaw First the opposites model
assumes that the space is linear and polar, second it assumes that the icons chosen
are in fact representatives of the ends of the scale, and third that the results
will lie within the scale.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:47:21 clearclaw None of those things are
inherently assumable.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:48:02 cocadieta I assume none of those and
continue to agree with the 'whole premise'
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:48:28 clearclaw bows
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:49:33 clearclaw My general view is one of
arbitrarily selected viewpoints on a fluid flow-state.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:50:23 clearclaw The viewpoints are arbitrary,
pick whatever you like while also freely picking any other at any time as useful.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:51:20 clearclaw It makes icons and polars
just random nouns within an arbitrary viewpoint.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:52:24 cocadieta The 'whole premise' just
boils down to: intellectually and emotionally honest discourse in any subject
yields useful results. This is not an earth-shattering revelation.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:52:31 cocadieta I don't understand how you're
using 'polars' there.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:52:53 clearclaw kj: Just a question of how
you view the world really. Take politics. Is it really Dems vs Repubs? Does that
even slightly accurately represent the atual field?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:53:58 clearclaw Polars simply refers to the
end-points of scales. A short hand reference to the idea that the idea of a scale,
let alone the endpoint, is a product of the viewpoint selected and not inherent to
the item.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:55:58 kj Well, yes and no (mostly no). But
I do think that if you take the whole set of policy positions they are highly
correlative for a large majority into two sets.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:56:14 clearclaw I am perhaps less impressed
with emotional honesty. It seems a fine idea, but also a product of whatever
particular viewpoint you selected for the item discussed.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:56:28 kj And I don't think those two parties
represent the end-points. For the Repubs they do more, IMHO.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:56:36 clearclaw nods KJ majority.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:57:34 clearclaw I view the political space
much more as a collision on N-dimensional fields. There are no real polar
opposites or scalars, just a morass of small items that may be arbitrarily grouped
into a party platform.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:57:35 kj So for me, for example, it's MUCH
more important to be successfully partisan, than to worry about one particular
position. If my party wins, I'm 90% happy, much more than I can expect fighting
the closer party.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:58:45 kj By the voting, statistical studies
of Congressional voters patterns over decades show that the "correlation" I talk
about has increased over time (or perhaps more accurately), the division.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:58:55 kj :doesn't necessarily think that's a
bad thing.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:59:14 clearclaw thinks it is quite a
remarkably Bad Thing.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:59:31 cocadieta I'm with J C here.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 22:59:46 kj as to you political space argument,
sure, that's true in a theoretical sense, but it sure ain't practical as to getting
someone you like elected.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:00:25 cocadieta It sure isn't. The result is
that I don't like anyone.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:00:30 clearclaw I'd view as advancement if
the field became flatter, less stereotyped, less polar, more nuanced, and, in the
modern media and political sense, entirely unmanagable.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:00:36 kj The partisan divide has clarified
the diverse world views in the US. Unfortunately, those world views are tremendous
different at a basic level.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:01:03 kj That sucks, true, but it's there.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:01:17 kj And I doubt it will go away in my
lifetime.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:01:27 clearclaw So employ the Kathari
solution. Kill 'em all, let god sort them out and build a different system.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:01:40 cocadieta Not to pick on you, but can
you unpack that 'basic level' a little?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:01:46 kj But I think the supposed 50-50'ness
will tilt significant in one direction for a decade or two.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:01:57 cocadieta WILL?!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:02:03 kj :so clearclaw says, to the atheist.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:02:05 cocadieta DECADE OR TWO?!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:02:21 clearclaw I'd give it the better part
of a century.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:02:21 kj at least :)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:02:34 kj :comtemplate unpacking...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:02:36 kj -s
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:03:06 cocadieta Not that I really want to
have this conversation, but Reagan tipped the scales so far that they broke.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:03:48 kj Meaning that there are certain
precepts that are opposites (shudder!)... religion vs. secular government is
the problem or the solution military might exercised is inherently good or bad
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:04:11 kj the "answer" for each of these is
very highly correlative into two sets
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:04:23 clearclaw I view most of American
politics as oddly centrist.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:04:44 kj if you said you thought god
controlled the world, I'd bet there is a 90% chance you also think this or that.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:05:10 kj The only thing left centrist in
politics is the influence of money.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:05:13 clearclaw kj: And then there's the set
who consistently answer with Your question is either presumptiely irrelevant or
pre-judgemental.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:06:05 clearclaw I see far more similarities
between the Dems and Republicans than differences.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:06:12 kj I'm just what I report from talking
to lots of people I know, and overhearing lots of people at work. That fact (as I
see it) is neither good nor bad.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:06:25 kj I see few similarities.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:06:37 kj I've never bought that argument, at
least since the 70's.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:07:08 clearclaw I think it is part of being
human. Our tribes are built on the same premises.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:07:26 clearclaw There really is not much
structural difference among tribes.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:07:33 kj I can't think of a major issue
where there is great agreement between the parties except for hating terrorism. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:08:01 kj It's funny, I'm all into to
partisanship, but hate tribalism. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:08:33 clearclaw While being ridiculously
loyal I suspect I never got a partisan gene.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:08:56 clearclaw I tend to think partisaniship
and tribalism as equally silly but necessary social tools.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:09:17 cocadieta JC I was assuming/hoping
you'd zero out the 'emotionally honest' section of that message awhile back, but in
order to honestly compose the message I had to include it.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:09:33 kj I think of tribalism as the main
cause of hate and conflict in the world. But it does lead to good food choices.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:09:42 kj Partisanship is just a means to an
end.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:09:47 clearclaw nods emotionally honest. I
wondered about that.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:09:58 clearclaw So is tribalism
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:10:09 clearclaw 'me is not sure thre's a
difference.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:10:16 kj Perhaps, but much different ends.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:10:26 clearclaw I don't see a difference.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:10:35 kj Tribalism is about groups - us vs.
them
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:10:53 clearclaw That can be one aspect of
tribes, yes.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:10:57 cocadieta kj, are you usually around as
seth?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:10:57 kj partisanship is about control over
policy within a single group
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:11:07 kj define "around"
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:11:21 cocadieta no!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:11:23 clearclaw ie tribes competitng for
representation within the larger tribe of tribes.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:11:59 kj no - within one tribe, as I define
tribes (i. e., more cultural than political)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:12:25 kj I can see your point, but think you
are being a bit pedantic, if that's the right word.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:12:43 kj I don't live near Seth if that's
what you mean.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:12:50 cocadieta what on earth is the
difference, in any sort of broad sense, between 'cultural' and 'political' divides?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:12:50 kj But I chat occasionally.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:12:54 clearclaw Seth is Seth Jaffee, a
slightly over-sugared jewish kid game-developer-wannabe from somewhere I forget in
the mid-west or some such. I've met him a few times. Runs the Cumbersome blog
among other things.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:13:15 kj Yes, I know of him.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:13:19 kj and his blog too.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:13:38 kj What is the difference between
cultural and polical? Come one.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:13:39 kj on.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:13:47 cocadieta He's from Arizona. I don't
know many people who frequent this chat (certainly I'm pretty new) so I'm trying to
get a handle on who uses what…handles.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:13:55 clearclaw nods Ben on culture/politics.
Same deal, different noun for facets of the same item.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:13:57 cocadieta I will not come on!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:14:22 clearclaw They're largely synonyms.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:14:47 kj :thinks that people should identify
themselves - if they want to give their real name, religion, meat preferences, etc.
they should be left to do it themselves...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:15:01 clearclaw is transaprent.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:15:08 kj Well, we'll have to disagree on all
that I guess.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:15:34 kj Obviously culture (or lack thereof)
influences politics and partisanship.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:15:36 cocadieta kj, I don't really understand
what you meant by that last message.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:15:46 kj which one?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:15:52 cocadieta (about self-identification)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:16:32 kj I don't think on chat we should say
people's real name etc. unless we know they think that's ok.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:16:56 kj But I'm a privacy nut. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:17:16 cocadieta Ohh, I understand now.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:17:22 clearclaw I'm also a privacy nut, but
I'm a transaprent society privacy nut.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:17:23 kj in any case, welcome to BGDF :)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:17:40 kj Chat here is usually much
quieter :)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:17:50 cocadieta No, no no. No social
contracts, im- or explicit, have been broken in the last ten minutes.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:17:52 kj do you design games?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:18:39 clearclaw Ben and I have some common
interests.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:18:54 kj social analysis? :)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:19:55 cocadieta Some common interests is
about right.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:19:55 clearclaw Perhaps a little. I suspect
without confirmation that a portion of his participation is from his interest in my
designs resulting from our collision over Wabash Cannonball (a game we're both
impressed with). (Clearly I have no ego)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:21:03 kj Egos only come in two levels - all
or none.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:21:12 kj (that was a joke, in case you
didn't get it)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:21:47 kj :says goodbye to all the pinkish
purple in the tiles he is designing.... hellooooo brown.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:22:13 clearclaw BTW: Do you have an URL for
that tile/colour thing you're working on?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:23:24 kj Just the one you might have seen
the other night...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:23:38 kj
http://home.avvanta.com/~brad/Squares1.jpg
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:23:38 cocadieta That timeline is about right.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:24:08 kj You both in the US?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:24:20 clearclaw nods Image. Saw that. I was
hoping for more prose than images.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:24:21 cocadieta I'm not much of a designer or
interested in having an enormous web presence, but I do like to be able to
contribute where I feel there's an information gap.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:24:39 cocadieta I was lucky with WC, and
surprisingly with Container and Agricola, to be ahead of the curve.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:24:52 kj how do you do the * thing with text
in italics?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:24:53 cocadieta kj, what am I looking at
there?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:25:03 kj a few tiles
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:25:05 clearclaw I'd rather not have much of a
web presence, but I'm content with immutable history so gave up on that illusion.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:25:24 clearclaw kj: IRC-style commands. /me
<text here>
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:25:33 kj test
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:25:39 kj danke
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:26:03 kj used to the BSW commands - get all
confused when I come back here
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:26:10 cocadieta I am not at all content with
immutable history and in fact delete my content frequently!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:26:21 kj needs to redesign the rainbow
thing...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:26:29 kj me too coca
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:26:52 clearclaw I prefer commonly immutable
history to the illusion of lost data.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:26:54 kj I try to make it impossible to find
my full name or address from my e-mail address.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:27:00 kj Getting harder every day.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:27:19 clearclaw I like identities. There are
so very many to choose from!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:27:31 kj Things I wrote 30 years ago are now
on google - scared the bejeebus out of me when that happened.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:28:56 clearclaw I spent a couple hundred
hours ensuring that my content was properly indexed and archived so that I wouldn't
have to bother resurrecting it.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:28:57 cocadieta Here's where you'll really
discover how vain I am, though I think there's some merit to my thinking:
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:29:03 kj Annoys me that if I go look for a
new job, people can look all that up.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:29:12 clearclaw pleases me.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:29:38 cocadieta I delete content frequently
because I'd like to maintain a useful collection of content. If someone were to
read everything I've posted publicly, I'd like for that record to be as close too
100% interesting/useful as possible.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:29:56 cocadieta to.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:30:11 cocadieta So as soon as I decide
something isn't useful or interesting, out it goes!
http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/df9601/df960124.jpg
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:31:31 kj ha - exactly!
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:31:45 kj but it's not always possible to
delete content
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:32:04 clearclaw But then I view that ghost as
a Good And Desireable and Needed and Wanted Thing
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:32:29 kj sigh - doubt we'll agree on
anything :)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:33:01 clearclaw Have you read David Brin's
Transparent Society?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:33:17 kj funny that's so old (1996) - don't
thin google had resurrected the backups by then - think it was only about 5 years
ago
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:33:18 cocadieta I have not.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:33:20 kj No
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:33:36 clearclaw You should. Really. Now.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:33:36 kj Does he like the word
dialectic? :)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:33:49 clearclaw I assume that at the quantum
level no information is ever lost, that the data storage ability of the universe
exceeds to sum of all its possible states (which is of course impossible, but I
treasure my illusions). Ergo the only question is how readily accessible is an
arbitrary data point?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:34:09 kj WhatEVER :)
http://www.davidbrin.com/tschp1.html
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:34:32 kj Sorry - getting late and my brain
power AND decorum is fading.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:34:53 kj quickly tries to stereotype him...
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:35:34 cocadieta I agree (quantum level etc)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:35:46 kj finds it funny that he seems to say
the future is one of only two polar opposites.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:36:45 kj Dang - brown came out ... orange.
I hate this hand-me-down printer.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:37:01 kj It is a pretty orange, though.
http://books.google.com/books?id=brjIK1dnoYgC&dq=%22transparent+society
%22&pg=PP1&ots=ypIAa7WOdp&sig=1Xc0mcGlZCva8pB93GKxCAqTYP4&hl=en&prev=http://
www.google.com/search%3Fhl%3Den%26client%3Diceweasel-a%26rls%3Dorg.debian:en-
US:unofficial%26sa%3DX%26oi%3Dspell%26resnum%3D0%26ct%3Dresult%26cd%3D1%26q%3D
%2522transparent%2Bsociety%2522%26spell%3D1&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-
with-thumbnail
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:38:13 clearclaw Better link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=brjIK1dnoYgC
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:38:42 kj Sounds moderately interesting.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:38:58 kj Ah - second attempt - more
brownlike.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:39:10 kj Now I have to select of them and
change them ... what fun. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:40:31 kj well - about time for bed - night
all - been interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:41:00 cocadieta I have in fact read parts of
that book.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:41:03 cocadieta Night kj.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:41:10 cocadieta I had forgotten about it.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:42:24 clearclaw I've long followed the
precept that everythingis public unless declared and forced private (in which case
it is often public anyway)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:43:38 cocadieta I think that's the most
sensible way to live.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:44:50 clearclaw I suddenly sound terribly
Edwardian.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:45:11 clearclaw I await Mary Poppins.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:45:19 cocadieta Hilarious. But no, I think
that's true.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:45:24 cocadieta kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:45:49 clearclaw Hehn. As do I.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:46:21 clearclaw But I am not (quite) a
performance artist, tho the distinction is becoming thinner every year as the 'net
grows.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:46:21 cocadieta On the other hand (I don't
even know that it is the other hand, really, but at the very least: also), if BGG
didn't allow me to delete my content I wouldn't publish nearly as much content as I
do.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:46:57 cocadieta I'm not a particularly
prolific author but I don't think I'm terribly anomalous either.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:47:22 clearclaw I've a strong personal
aversion to the concept of editing perception
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:48:32 cocadieta And the fact that dedicated
sleuths can uncover content I decided no longer worked for me, this fact is not
important in the grand scheme of things.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:49:06 cocadieta I understand the strong
personal aversion (it's one you share with many of BGG's finest!). I do not share
that aversion in the slightest.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:50:48 clearclaw I am the terror of my
management, and this is in part why I've been requested to leave my current group.
I refuse to manage perception.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:51:20 clearclaw I do things, and if your
perception gets in the way I'll do things to with or around you until I can do the
things I want to do.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:51:39 clearclaw is target-centric.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:55:15 cocadieta What do you do?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:55:46 cocadieta I've heard enough to know
vaguely what you do, but I've never heard a real job description.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:56:00 clearclaw I'm transitioning from
running an engineering group (combo of tech lead, architect and L1 manager) to a
nearly pure tech-lead long-term architecture role.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:56:29 clearclaw Loosely means I'm about to
get into the vision-selling business.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:56:54 cocadieta I'm sifting through
terminology as quickly as I can.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:57:13 cocadieta Do you interface primarily
with people or with code? You mention a lot of conference calls.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:57:14 clearclaw I don't fit well in corporate
buckets
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:57:29 clearclaw More people than code, much
more people.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:58:03 clearclaw I've spent the last few years
responsible the the architecture and (re-)development of my company's web services
platform.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:58:44 clearclaw Mostly that means I get to
set/define/communicate/manage/yada-yada policy and implementation across umpty-
hundred engineers, only 3 of which reported to me.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:59:03 clearclaw I'm now moving out of that
very direct-responsibility role to a very indirect role.
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:59:51 cocadieta Got it. What's the timeframe
of the moving out?
ch_SpielTalk! 05/06/2008 23:59:55 clearclaw As I've unusually strong
debugging and communication skills I also ften get called in on coordination and
problem-solving projects, especially the hairballs that nobody wan'ts to touch.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:00:19 clearclaw Was supposed to be early last
month, should be in a week or two.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:00:39 clearclaw Most of the projects I get
are the hairballs. My new area is a corporate-division-sized hairball.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:01:00 cocadieta Are you happy about it?
Unhappy? Indifferent? Interesting about the debugging and communication...it's
where I spend most of my time.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:01:20 clearclaw I'm enjoying the heck out of
it.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:01:44 cocadieta That's great.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:02:49 clearclaw I'm very amused by the very
long list of people that have approached me on the last months saying, "I've heared
you're joing XYZ, that's great -- they REALLY need your help!" is just about as
long as the list of people who have said, "I heard...could you fix QRS?" and that
many of the people on both lists are in the group I'm joining.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:02:59 clearclaw s/heared/heard/
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:03:25 clearclaw Nice to be wanted, not so
sure I want to be wanted quite that much.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:03:34 cocadieta Ha!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:09:00 cocadieta I've been working on a
strategy piece for Container, but it's not easy. What I know I've got right is my
naming of disorganized markets as 'scavenger economies.'
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:10:12 cocadieta The article, I'm becoming
more and more convinced, centers around the opportunity for a pair of players to
recognize a scavenger economy and begin creating profit opportunities in the
distribution sector.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:10:30 cocadieta (sectors being defined as
production, distribution, and retail)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:11:13 clearclaw Excellent description.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:11:48 clearclaw THo I've been taking the
opposite approach of forcing markets into disorder so that I can scavenge them.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:12:04 clearclaw I play the phase-driven
aspects of Container heavily.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:14:00 clearclaw I guess I do depend on apair
players...sorta. But I set them up and discard them in order to ensure that the
delta consistently accrues with me.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:14:15 cocadieta Interesting. In our games,
the market defaults to disorganized.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:14:29 cocadieta The early-mid game is a
series of 'bids' by players to form pairs.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:14:42 clearclaw Hurm...explain?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:15:03 cocadieta I'll try. One sec.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:18:17 cocadieta I will often, at an immediate
loss, buy goods on my turn such that another player has an opportunity to buy from
me at my immediate gain, his immediate loss, and his potential gain.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:18:55 cocadieta (sometimes, not my immediate
gain either, but only my imediate break-even and potential gain in the retail
sector)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:19:33 cocadieta I view each of my turns in
Container as another opportunity to 'bid' for other players' business.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:19:48 clearclaw Of course. I'm notorious for
throwing a player out of contention and then feeding them money so that they remain
a viable market.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:20:07 clearclaw I always ensure that all
players are viable markets.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:20:55 cocadieta I'll reiterate that you
should take another look at Modern Art.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:21:33 cocadieta Play (surprise) with open
money. There are silent auctions in the game, which are best handled by giving
players notepads and having them write down their bids.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:21:38 clearclaw A few games ago after I
carefully set up another player to lose their entire turn twice in a row I
carefully threw them $18 for a two-container load. I need them to shift my goods!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:22:04 clearclaw It seemed obvious to me.
None of the other players including the target, got it.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:22:41 clearclaw (the target player was also
very short on cash at the time)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:22:48 cocadieta You mean $36 or $18 total?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:22:56 clearclaw I then turned around and did
the same thing to the next player/target.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:23:06 cocadieta ha.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:23:09 clearclaw $36 total, $18 bid.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:23:56 cocadieta OK, good. I was worried for a
minute that you were not bidding high enough in the retail sector! Not somthing
most groups have a problem with, to sat the least.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:25:12 clearclaw I always force the auctions
high. I'll rarely bid less than $6/per and almost never less than $5/per,
especially in the early game. Mostly I sit around $8/per.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:25:33 clearclaw MaCallit $6-$8 per.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:25:57 clearclaw It gets rid of the annoying
slow start to the game fast.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:26:16 clearclaw Get some money sloshing
around so you can DO things!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:26:19 cocadieta We never had that problem.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:26:30 cocadieta Yeah, exactly.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:26:43 cocadieta Who cares who gets the money
in the first 5 sales of the game?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:26:51 clearclaw I've seen many games with
other players that averaged $2-$4/per for almsot the whole game. Bah!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:27:12 clearclaw I've never leat that happen
in a table I'm at.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:27:33 clearclaw I *want* you to have money.
And you, and you and you.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:27:50 clearclaw Now buy from me! I'm poor --
you need me in the market!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:28:31 cocadieta Groupthink!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:28:40 cocadieta Not that that's a bad thing.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:28:50 clearclaw No, they truely do need me in
the market.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:29:22 cocadieta No, they truly do not.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:29:24 clearclaw Price inflation is real and
not a groupthink element. It is simple expectation and the confusion of past
behaviour with future predictions.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:29:42 clearclaw If I'm not in the market I
can't buy and sell their goods.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:29:53 clearclaw They need people to buy/sell.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:30:08 cocadieta No one player is needed in
Container's market. This is Container's most jaw-dropping feature.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:30:22 cocadieta Of course they need people to
buy and sell. They don't need you!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:30:54 clearclaw The cost of losing a single
player is non-trivial. The gain from keeping a player actively trading is much
larger.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:31:16 clearclaw s/much larger/large/
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:33:51 cocadieta The gain has to be better
than 25% chance of winning.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:34:01 cocadieta It often will be.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:34:51 cocadieta But if it is for you, you've
got two opponents who disagree. This is good stuff, and especially useful for
threads about boycotting players. In short: boycotting a player is great...for two
of his three opponents!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:35:06 cocadieta Anyway, I've got to go.
Night.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:35:20 clearclaw With fewer transacting
players control of the game phasing is MUCH harder. The continued opportunity to
control game phasing is much more valuable.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:36:21 clearclaw Note: I'm not contrasting
out-of-contention with actively trading. I'm specificslly keeping them actively
trading even if they are clearly out of contention.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:36:25 clearclaw waves.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:37:09 clearclaw If they're not trading they
are almost impossible to control, which makes a chaotically phased market that
throws game-bones to random players.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:38:15 cocadieta I agree, which is why I thik
it's in all players' interest to keep all players in contention at all times
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:38:46 clearclaw Oh, I happily throw them out
of contention and then give them bones.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:39:06 clearclaw Then I can use them against
the next player to throw them out of contention.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:39:18 clearclaw Then just iterate for
victory.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:39:23 cocadieta I *expect* an out of
contention player to throw the game. This is group style.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:39:54 clearclaw I expect an out-of-contention
player to fight for the best victory-approximation they can achieve.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:40:01 cocadieta Actually, what I expect is
for an out of contention player to work to end the game as quickly as possible.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:40:11 clearclaw (score, rank, %age, whatever)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:40:34 clearclaw I expect that in 18XX, not in
shorter euro-games.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:40:42 clearclaw Different game-model.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:40:55 clearclaw (there's a thread somewhere
on BGG where I argue that)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:41:56 cocadieta I generally play games with
ranks WIN and LOSE. If you're definitely in the LOSE slot, you're ready to move on.
There is no '%age' to consider
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:43:10 cocadieta With ontainer I absolutely
expect that an out of contention player will throw the game. So It's in my best
interest to ensure that no player is out of contention. What a cool dynamic!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:43:57 clearclaw I'm also in the WIN/LOSE
camp, but I view euro-games as single-universe games where the universe ends with
the game. There is nothing else. Where-as the 18XX presuppose an external
financial market where bankruptcy is non-fatal and just a stepping stone to the
next financial heist.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:44:53 clearclaw One has a closed attmoic
universe, the other acknowledges the greater context for convenience but the
universe still ends with the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:45:02 cocadieta Conversely (!) in 18xx games
I expect out of contention players to continue to play their best.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:45:10 clearclaw Heck no.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:45:37 cocadieta Polar opposites! Interesting.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:45:56 clearclaw If I borked the train rush
and got screwed out of all the 3-trains and most of my shares, (as happened in my
last 1830 game) I'm heading straight for bankruptcy by the shortest and fastest
route I can find.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:46:18 clearclaw BAM, I'm dead on the 5's.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:47:03 clearclaw Meanwhile the players around
me fight to position themselves for the early bankruptcy.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:47:38 cocadieta I hear you, understand you,
and somewhat (not completely) disagree with you.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:47:45 clearclaw If I'm merely in the middle-
pack, not leading, probably out of contention, but also not in desperate shap, I'll
play to the end.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:47:48 cocadieta But this conversation will
have to wait. I'm off.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:58:55 clearclaw Lo
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:59:06 clearclaw Long interesting
conversations today.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:59:23 clearclaw Afraid we blew poor KJ out of
the water.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 00:59:45 clearclaw Replied to your comment.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:00:27 Seth I just read the buffer
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:00:37 Seth I hate when people tank a game just
because they think they're losing
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:00:56 clearclaw Discussion goes back way
further than that.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:01:08 clearclaw At least another 6-10K.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:01:09 Seth my friend Chris used to do thatand
sometimes I wasn't even convinced he was losing!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:01:19 Seth I bet it does. but I can only read
the buffer
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:01:24 clearclaw I agree, except in the 18XX
when they are clearly toast.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:01:28 Seth I played Brass - I won...
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:01:32 Seth and I learned some stuff
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:01:35 clearclaw cheers.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:01:37 Seth I saw a LOT more interaction
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:01:46 Seth I even overwrote someone's
Ironworks this time
http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/2008/06/05/ohana-proa/reflections-on-an-atoll/
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:02:07 Seth I thought that rule was a sort of
"just in case" rule, which should never really come up in normal play
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:02:08 Seth but lo
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:02:10 Seth it happened
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:02:32 clearclaw The last few Brass games I've
watched were near pure Development games. Nobody ever bothered to do Cotton.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:02:36 Seth I even posted to that effect in a
thread on BGG
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:02:57 Seth I did a lot of cotton this time
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:05:30 Seth Horray!: "So kula rots: get over
it."
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:06:37 Seth Are we worried about typos in
posts? I know I make them all the time...
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:06:49 Seth "At a crude cahracter level..."
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:06:51 clearclaw I'll fix any you note.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:07:04 clearclaw Comment or post
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:08:01 clearclaw Fixed
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:11:05 Seth I like the definition at the bottom
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:11:06 Seth nice
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:11:14 clearclaw The footnote is my personal
profit from the day. The first sentence is nicely succinct.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:11:27 Seth here's the thing... you don't see
games about managing largesse rather than managing scarcity because it's not
interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:11:53 clearclaw The definition is a little
cute-ish plugin. Sadly it insists on using MW definitions. I'd greatly prefer if
it used dict.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:11:59 clearclaw But I can't be bothered to
hack it.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:12:10 Seth what do you think of this comment:
If fish wealth isn't an issue and people are expected to be rich... why do fish
rot?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:12:32 clearclaw Exactly: so the question is
how to make a game of largesse interesting.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:12:57 clearclaw The traditional form is
through detail and micro-management. I discarded that solution and looked for
another.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:13:22 clearclaw Fish rot purely to ensure the
at the second resource item is primary.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:13:24 Seth one might argue tthat to make a
game of largesse interesting, the largesse should be replaced by scarcity ;) :P
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:13:44 clearclaw 2. Network meshes that
generate sufficient resource flow to afford those opportunities
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:13:50 Seth "...ensure the at the second..." <-
?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:13:57 clearclaw Is not that ironic.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:14:21 clearclaw ensure that the second
resource item (quoted just above) is primary
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:15:05 clearclaw The game is not about
managing wealth, it is about managing the secondary profit of wealth: transaction
volume.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:15:17 clearclaw The spice must flow.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:15:25 Seth brb
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:16:08 Seth I guess the fundamental question
is... "Why not both?"
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:16:32 clearclaw Because scarcity is
uninteresting.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:17:17 Seth dealing with scarcity is
interesting - it creates agonizing decisions left and right. If it were not
interesting then it would not be so "common"
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:17:22 clearclaw And transaction volume, or
more accurately managed flow is interesting.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:17:35 clearclaw And that is why it is
uninteresting to me.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:18:22 clearclaw I have no doubt that I can
create a reasonable scarcity game. There are many such pebbles on the beach. My
interest is in creating a more interesting pebble than that.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:18:29 clearclaw (cf Newton)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:19:17 clearclaw How to create an interesting
game of largesse? That's an interesting question. That requires an original
answer.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:19:33 Seth I really like the idea of rotting
fish
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:20:03 Seth it encourages you to (a) spend the
money you get, and (b) not invest too much in making more than you need
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:20:10 clearclaw Not original to me, blatantly
stolen from Kaivai which stole it from many games before it.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:20:33 clearclaw Over production is not a
problem -- just gives bidding and kula-power.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:20:41 Seth I think it would be a great
mechanic in an otherwise "normal" scarcity-style economic game
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:21:08 clearclaw Which is what Kaivai does
with it.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:21:23 Seth even if it just means that
"overproducing" = "going first a lot)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:21:41 clearclaw Managing excessive flow is
simply not a problem. Managing getting flow while also getting opportunities,
preferably getting the flow on other player's turns while getting the opportunities
on your turns and delicate.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:21:47 Seth perhaps I should play Kaivai
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:21:53 clearclaw First is usually best but not
always.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:22:05 clearclaw Kaivai is a great game. I
expect you to not be impressed.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:22:46 clearclaw s/and/is/
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:24:13 Seth From the description on BGG it
sounds pretty cool
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:24:19 Seth like something I would like
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:25:00 clearclaw Mostly because it doesn't
seem like your sort of game -- it is very phase-driven, very phase-constrained, not
an efficiency game, and is very heavily based around player incentives.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:25:31 clearclaw Runs about 120-150 minutes
with 180 minutes not being unusual with new players.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:26:29 Seth wow
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:26:34 Seth that sounds long
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:26:37 clearclaw Pretty crappy desc actually.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:27:09 clearclaw 120 minutes with experienced
players, easily. 180 if there's more than 1 newbie.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:27:59 clearclaw Actually figure 120 minutes
plus 20-30 minutes for every newbie in the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:31:32 Seth fish production based on dice?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:31:37 Seth d6? 2d6?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:31:44 clearclaw Yes, non-standard dice.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:31:48 Seth speaking of dice, D%D4E comes out
like 26 mins ago
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:31:58 Seth s/comes/came
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:31:58 clearclaw Which?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:32:08 Seth s/D%D/D&D
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:32:32 Seth Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:32:42 clearclaw Ohh.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:33:20 Seth I only know this because the store
where my club meets was having a thing at midnight
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:33:25 clearclaw First die is 5blue/1white,
second is 4/2, third is 3/3, fourth is 2/4 (or is that 1/5?)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:33:44 clearclaw Ahh. I've never RPGed.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:33:57 Seth from a review: "Some object to this
random element, but I personally think it fits nicely with the uncertainties of
actual fishing. "
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:34:01 clearclaw I think about it every so
often but then I recover.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:34:08 Seth D&D was never what I wanted it to
be
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:34:28 Seth I played a few times. Sometimes
fun, but never a good enough fun/time ratio
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:34:29 clearclaw I remember that quote. I
consider the dice the primary flaw in the game but am very unclear how to viably
remove them.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:34:51 clearclaw I have the Kaivai expansion
(two copies actually), but am still breeding enough local players to play it.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:35:07 clearclaw The expansion removes failed
fishing with an additional non-rotting currency
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:35:30 clearclaw The main problem withthe dice
is that the variance is too high.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:35:44 Seth Looks like Kaivai does what OP is
supposed to... "Fish sold to opponents’ cottages earn income, but at the trade-off
of eventually earning glory points for those opponents." <- if you want income, you
have to improve an opponent's position?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:36:07 Seth yeah, variance is often the
culprit.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:36:10 Seth See: Thebes
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:36:20 clearclaw Good fishing is REALLY
REALLY good and bad fishing is often dooming. Okay fishing is just that. Nother
REALLY GOOD or REALLY BAD happen often, but when they do it throws the game out of
whack.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:36:28 clearclaw But the game depends on their
being some variance.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:36:40 clearclaw (or at least the threat of
variance.)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:36:50 Seth This game sounds awesome
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:36:54 Seth or at least pretty cool
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:37:18 Seth based on Greg S's review
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:37:25 clearclaw I've rolled all 4 dice 4
times and ended up with 1 fish. That sucked and cost me the game. I've rolled 3
dice 6 times and come out with 16 fish, that near gave me the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:37:42 clearclaw Of course I created those
opportunities, but still. Not good.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:38:00 clearclaw I think the game is awesome.
For me it is everything that Puerto Rico should have been and wasn't.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:38:30 clearclaw I rate it a comfortable 9.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:40:11 Seth what's the optimal player count?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:40:34 clearclaw Exactly 4. Don't bother with
anything else.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:41:07 clearclaw The phase-driven competition
and influence market are too relaxed/broken with 3.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:42:01 Seth I would like to try this game
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:42:12 clearclaw I'll play it pretty much
anytime.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:43:49 Seth did you see this comment at the end
of that thread? "To JC Lawrence. You mention you like tight games. Have you tried
In the Year of the Dragon yet. It seems to scratch the same itch as Kaivai. We just
learned Kaivai last week at Mittencon and played it again today with a better
understanding of the rules."
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:43:59 Seth and have you played In the Year of
the Dragon? And what do you think of it?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:44:21 clearclaw YEs, I saw the comment and
didn't deign to reply. I've still not played it.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:44:38 Seth I like ItYotD a lot
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:45:37 clearclaw People who know me and are
good at predicting my tastes (eg David Eisen) are certain I won't like it. Shrug.
I dunno. I may play it some time but I'm in no hurry.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:46:05 clearclaw There are more than enough
games to play. Last night was WoN and LW.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:47:13 clearclaw I'd still like to get Lords
of the Spanish Main on the table. And Landerbahnen. And 1860, especially 1860.
And Woodenshoes & Iron Monsters. And 1846. And Kaivai. And 1st edition Neuland.
etc etc etc
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:47:15 Seth LokoWerks was fun, but I think it
would get old quick
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:47:29 clearclaw I think I'm about a dozen
games in now.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:47:30 Seth it's too linear for me I think...
to hold my interest for more than a few plays
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:47:37 clearclaw That's across about 3 weeks?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:48:21 Seth I think by the time I'd played it a
dozen times I'd be OK with not playing it anymore
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:48:38 clearclaw 14 plays.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:48:50 Seth What do you know about ItYotD
(other than David Eison says you wouldn't like it)?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:48:59 clearclaw I have it in the crate. I'm
not pushing it but I'll gladly play if/as requested.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:49:45 Seth ItYotD is all about planning ahead.
Perfect info, not really much chrome... you decide what you're going to prepare for
and what you're going to forego.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:50:42 Seth I guess you could say the turn
order is sorta like kaivai - if you're first, your action is always free... if
you're later in the turn order there's a risk that you're action will not be free
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:50:45 Seth money is tight
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:51:06 clearclaw Disaster-oriented, iterative,
wildly conflicting statements as to randomness/chaos but seems to be mostly PI, not
exactly phase-driven, seems to be more that each position has a natural evolution
sequence and taht the task is to schedule those evolutions so that you get the key
items when they're cheap/first.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:51:14 Seth I wonder what it is about the game
david thinks you wouldn't like
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:51:38 clearclaw I haven't asked him. It has
almost vanished locally.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:52:09 Seth weird. Yeah, I don't see it a lot
here, but then the groups are small here, and the only reason I saw it in the first
place was because I was bringing it out
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:52:53 Seth well, if you ever get around to it,
I'd be curious to know your opinion
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:53:42 Seth there are 2 people trading Kaivai
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 01:58:29 Seth ok, I'm going to sort laundry and
probably fall asleep
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:05:15 seo back in chicago?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:05:18 seo
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:05:18 seo
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:05:26 doho123 yes
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:06:24 seo did you have the chance to tell
Darke about the game stealing?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:07:04 doho123 he hasn't been around
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:09:28 seo maybe he knows, and doesn't come
just to have you waiting
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:11:40 doho123 grrrr. Darke makes Doho
MAD!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:13:04 seo heh
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:14:04 seo cocadieta quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:27:47 Dralius joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:29:45 Dralius Is there a game named
Stealing or has a game been stolen?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:30:23 doho123 Darkes been wanting to do a
shipwreck game for a long time
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:30:42 doho123 then I had a good realization
of how to do one. So i stole his theme
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:35:02 Dralius theme is ok. At Essen last
year a first time publisher publicly accused Mayfair games on BGG of stealing their
game because they both had the same theme. What a bunch of noobs.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:35:53 doho123 "how dare you steal my theme
of building up an economy in middle age Europe!"
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:36:58 Dralius They had sent it to mayfair
years earlier and were turned down. It was not at all the same and not even a game
that originated at Mayfair. They co published it with amigo who is the onews that
found the design.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:37:47 Dralius the theme was gangsters :-/
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:40:28 Dralius Thats the one
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:42:35 Dralius They sure burned some
bridges.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:46:41 doho123 everyone's ideas are
completely original!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:48:12 Dralius It's people like that which
have set the tone for big companies submission policies. "If i look at you game and
publish anything like it in the future you will try to sue me"
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:51:20 Dralius I have spoken to the director
of submissions at Hasbro about attending Protospiel and because of this problem
their legal office advised against it.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:52:17 Dralius They are big money so they
become big targets. It’s a shame they are put in this position because they were
very nice and seem to really want to participate.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:52:21 doho123 understandable
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 07:53:39 Dralius It's like being the child of
someone famous you want to go out and play with the other kids but you can't go
without your body guard.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 08:10:49 kj mornin'
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 08:19:05 Dralius kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 09:05:58 seo Dralius quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 09:50:20 Seth ‹doho123› then I had a good
realization of how to do one. So i stole his theme <- and you wonder why I keep
doing that... heh
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 09:56:44 seo Seth quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:15:22 Seth hey all!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:15:28 Seth What's shakin'?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:16:15 Gogolski I'm busy making countersheets
that can then be punched by zuntzu
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:16:49 seo I think Scott went to the toilet...
I don't dare answering your question, Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:30:42 Zzzzz-stillworking is
STILLWORKING.... and hating every minute of it! YES HATE!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:34:51 Brykovian joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:35:40 Brykovian [color=#008000] greetings
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:36:50 Brykovian [color=#008000] how are
things, Ariel? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:37:01 seo is still working too, and also
hating every minute.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:37:07 Brykovian [color=#008000] (I see Dave
is still working ... and loving every minute of it ;) ) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:37:11 seo I guess that answers a lot ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:38:07 seo I miss the time when I was a
hobbist game designer.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:38:26 Brykovian [color=#008000] yeah -- me
too [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:38:30 seo Actually, I miss the time when I
had time for a hobby, any hobby
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:39:27 Brykovian [color=#008000] JC, you
listening in? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:39:28 Zzzzz-stillworking yeah hobbies would
be nice...
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:39:56 Brykovian [color=#008000] I've found
beer a good substitute for hobbies ... but it has to be good beer [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:40:23 Seth isn't working at all
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:41:02 Brykovian [color=#008000] Seth --
you're working even when you aren't working ;) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:41:26 seo Beer is ok, but I prefer beer &
gamedesign than beer & work
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:41:39 Brykovian [color=#008000] that's a fair
point [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:41:41 clearclaw here
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:42:02 seo Bryk: it's actually the opposite:
Seth isn't working even when he's working
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:42:23 Brykovian [color=#008000] JC -- next
week won't work for me ... just spent the last 2 days reviewing the project
schedule ... I'll most likely be staying late at the office all 4 days :P [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:42:38 seo time for lunch (with stout beer :-)
)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:42:38 clearclaw Bugger
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:43:19 Brykovian [color=#008000] we're taking
the system live next week ... apparently, we're expecting there to be some work
involved ... and apparently, I'm supposed to help with that [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:43:34 clearclaw If you're up for beer down
here I suggest Teska's Germania down on First & Julian in San Jose.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:44:01 Brykovian [color=#008000] :) ... that's
what I've heard ... and good German food there as well, right? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:44:21 clearclaw Food is fair, not great.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:44:54 Brykovian [color=#008000] ah ... but
good beer can help with that as well [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:46:16 Brykovian [color=#008000] they quit
serving Bass at the DoubleTree ... that made me sad [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:46:29 Gogolski I need beer too. And a
shower, and diner...
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:46:50 Brykovian [color=#008000] and a
pony? ;) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:46:53 Gogolski Bryk, you've made a zuntzu
gamebox didn't you?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:47:08 Brykovian [color=#008000] yes I did ...
but it was a while ago [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:47:21 Gogolski Was it easy?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:47:27 Gogolski It looks fairly easy...
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:47:47 Brykovian [color=#008000] I'm not a big
fan of hand-editing XML files ... but there's not too much going on in those -- so
it only took a couple hours to assemble it all [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:48:15 Brykovian [color=#008000] took longer
to put the graphics together for what I was doing than to package it for zuntzu
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:49:03 Brykovian [color=#008000] if I remember
right, there was a step-by-step available through the website ... and that pretty
much covered what I needed to see (plus poking around at the existing example
files) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:49:30 Gogolski I have no XML-skills
whatsoever, but it's explained rather well. I'm busy making countersheets right
now. Lining the pieces up takes time...
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:49:31 Brykovian [color=#008000] I found it
easier to work with than VASSAL [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:49:39 Brykovian [color=#008000] (did I spell
that one right?) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:51:01 Brykovian [color=#008000] yeah -- I
already had a map graphic, but it was done at 300 dpi and 15x18 inches ... so I had
to scale that down for on-screen consumption ... plus I didn't have any pawn/marker
graphics [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:52:07 Gogolski I have a bunch of meeples and
stuff...
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:53:01 Gogolski First sheet and mask are
ready, a bunch more to go...
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:53:20 Gogolski I'm off now. Laters peoples!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:53:27 Brykovian [color=#008000] see ya
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:53:57 Gogolski If I get this done, I'll
likely invite you all to play....
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:54:55 Seth evidently I need a new comp before
I can run zuntzu
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:55:28 Brykovian [color=#008000] you were part
of my session, back however long ago, no? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:55:38 Brykovian [color=#008000] it was you,
doho, Nando, right? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:55:43 doho123 Civil?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:55:55 Brykovian [color=#008000] yeah [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 10:57:02 Brykovian [color=#008000] I still need
to get the game board changes in place ... and then completely re-theme it ...
maybe by mid-July? ;) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:06:04 Seth yeah., it worked back then
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:06:58 Seth Bryk:
http://sjaffee.blogspot.com/2008/04/murphy-2642-jaffee-0.html
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:07:31 Zzzzz-stillworking stress level
rising too quickly.... must relax.... must not explode.... must keep job....
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:09:27 Seth Here... Railroad variant post:
http://sedjtroll.blogspot.com/
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:10:08 Brykovian [color=#008000] :( sorry to
hear about that [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:12:57 Seth i had forgotten one, I updated the
RRT post
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:18:12 doho123 ok, Seth, I've got the
railroad stock certifcate point value for you
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:19:01 Seth ok
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:19:03 Seth let's hear it
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:19:22 doho123 let me organize it a bit
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:21:31 doho123 I can email the excell sheet
to you
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:22:03 Seth k
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:22:49 doho123 sent
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:23:00 doho123 sent to gmail
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:23:06 doho123 off to lunch
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:24:07 Seth k, later
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:35:07 seo food is gone, beer is gone... time
for chocolate!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 11:53:26 Zzzzz-stillworking more beer! more
beer!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:04:28 Brykovian [color=#008000] time for me
to go ... take care all [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:04:30 Brykovian Brykovian quit
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:22:55 kj howdy
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:25:33 kj JC - you there?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:38:02 kj guess not
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:46:58 clearclaw Here
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:47:13 clearclaw (briefly)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:48:40 seo kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:55:27 doho123 <crickets>
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:55:41 clearclaw Yeh, and I've to run.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:56:11 clearclaw I'm noodling an article on
butterfly effects if you're interested.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:56:50 clearclaw They seem an under-recognised
structure in game designs.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:57:50 Seth I'm interested to read your evntual
post on the subject
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:57:56 Seth I think I know the idea you're
referring to
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:58:18 Seth Scott: how did you come to those
point totals? And what do you mean by "in deck"?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:58:37 doho123 you can adjust the letter
tiles "in the deck"
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:58:40 Seth is the #in deck column like the
distribution of "city tiles"?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:58:50 doho123 and the point totals on those
railroads will update
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:58:51 Seth because there are only 46 letters
there
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:58:59 Seth oh, i see :)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:59:03 doho123 well, how many do you want?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:59:07 clearclaw The Wikipedia article on
Butterfly Effect is pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:59:07 doho123 go add some more!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:59:25 doho123 or take some away
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:59:48 clearclaw And the fine source material
can be found here: http://www.scaryforkids.com/a-sound-of-thunder/
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 12:59:58 clearclaw departs for the indoor rain
room.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:00:11 doho123 if you go to the "SHEET1"
tab, you can see how I did the calculations
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:00:58 doho123 in general, each letter gets
a point value which is determined by 6-(the amount of tiles in the deck)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:01:23 doho123 each letter in a name is used
to add up the point totals.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:02:03 doho123 then I do some subtractions
based on how many letters there are in the name.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:02:30 doho123 the subtraction is (8-number
of letters)*2
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:03:22 doho123 oh, I didn't include wild
tiles.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:03:35 doho123 so some amount of those
should be added
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:03:35 Seth that's OK
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:03:41 Seth I don't think so
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:03:44 Seth not in the "city tiles"
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:03:55 Seth I mean they could be
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:03:57 Seth but no need
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:04:12 doho123 I was just looking for a good
distribution of points that took into regards A)toughness to complete due to letter
occurances, and B)length of word
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:04:22 Seth the thing is, 3 or 4 different
letters will be "red"
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:04:36 Seth (this might affect that)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:04:45 Seth another 3 or 4 letters will be
"green"
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:04:46 Seth etc
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:05:02 doho123 DON'T DO COLORED CUBES!!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:05:13 Seth Alphabet Blocks!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:05:15 Seth no?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:05:34 Seth that allows for overlap of letters
even if the letters don't overla
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:06:18 doho123 goes off to work on
Shipwrecks again
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:06:29 Seth cool spreadsheet
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:07:10 doho123 I should send you the
wackiness that is Epic Notebook Solitaire Adventures
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:07:23 Seth heh, yeah
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:13:19 doho123 sends off the excel sheet.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:13:28 doho123 don't ask me to explain it.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:13:33 doho123 Sheet 2 on that one is the
fun page
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:13:52 Seth cooll
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:14:26 doho123 sheet 1 describes the values
for events and land icons
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:14:41 doho123 sheet two defines all the
battle/level combos
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:14:51 doho123 sheet 3 defines the "build a
Quest" stuff
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:15:04 doho123 and "build a creature"
function
changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:30:54 Zzzzz runs away.... screaming like a
little girl who was slapped my her mother with a wet dish cloth on a cold winter
morning standing in 2 feet of snow waiting for the school bus.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:31:10 Zzzzz Zzzzz quit
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:34:24 Seth so, not very fast then (the speed
at which someone in 2 feet of snow would run)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:36:58 Seth Sweet
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:37:03 Seth someone offered me a trade on BGGG
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:37:07 Seth er, BGG
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:37:22 Seth their Merchants of Amseerdam which
I want for my Leonardo Da vinci which I don't
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:37:28 Seth money wise it' snot the best deal
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:37:32 Seth but I hate LdV
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 13:37:37 Seth so I'm ok with it
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 14:23:01 Seth Why the hell would I not be able to
load MabiWeb at home now?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 14:37:34 kj Seth quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 15:20:20 seo I wonder what was Seth doing at
home so early?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:03:44 Zzzzz-sleepyland [color=#008080] he was
never at work if I recall correctly [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:03:54 Zzzzz-sleepyland Zzzzz-sleepyland changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:15:59 seo you mean NEVER or never today?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:16:48 Zzzzz [color=#008080] i think today he
was not at work, but I could be wrong [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:16:50 seo I know he doesn't work at work, but
I think he goes to some building where other people does work while he surfs the
net and chats
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:17:00 seo ah, ok
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:17:02 Zzzzz [color=#008080] for some reason in
admist my crazy day I think I saw him mention that [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:17:17 Zzzzz [color=#008080] how goes you work?
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:17:18 seo how are you doing?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:17:41 seo I'm taking a break for a few hours
to go to the movies with the family :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:18:03 seo then back to work, maybe all night,
if I have energy
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:19:50 seo I almost had a nervous breakdown
yesterday. Called it a day at 3:00pm, went to bed slept till night, had dinner and
back to sleep. I woke up today feeling a bit better and worked all day
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:20:40 seo life is not too fun lately, but now
I fell I might make it
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:21:13 seo feel*
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:22:06 Zzzzz [color=#008080] ah good... i still
have no end in sight [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:22:12 Zzzzz [color=#008080] just rough everyday
is rough [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:22:35 seo we're trapped!
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:22:40 Zzzzz [color=#008080] and sadly the work
work is more rough than the freelance, but i think about your freelancing and get
confused as to what path is really *better* [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:22:42 Zzzzz [color=#008080] exactly!!!!
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:23:18 Zzzzz [color=#008080] and you might have
almost been at the nervous breakdown yesterday, I was really close today! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:23:43 Zzzzz [color=#008080] I actually had to
stop walk over to one of my managers and ask them to write my email to a client,
since I was about to lose it! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:23:45 seo sad to hear that :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:23:57 Zzzzz [color=#008080] ad that is when I
realized, OMG how can I do this for myself? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:24:02 Zzzzz [color=#008080] and* [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:24:26 Zzzzz [color=#008080] but tonight is
family night for me too... time to go out into the 95 degree heat and buy new cell
phones! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:24:54 Zzzzz [color=#008080] or 34C for you
metric ppl [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:25:08 seo time to go for mee too. Have fun!
Say "hi" to Grady and Wendy.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:25:18 Zzzzz [color=#008080] well do thanks...
you have fun too! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:25:29 seo it's cold around here, but not as
it was a couple days ago.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:25:33 seo bye bye!
seo-AFK
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:42:26 kj -
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:42:57 kj re
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:43:01 kj -
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:48:47 clearclaw2 kj: You asked for me earlier?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:51:22 kj hey - yes... So you are a
numismatist too I hear?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:51:34 clearclaw2 Very small time.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:51:45 kj ah - US stuff?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:51:58 clearclaw2 English mostly.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:52:10 clearclaw2 Some Commonwealth
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:52:14 kj a little more interesting :)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:52:31 kj I collect ancient coins.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:53:00 kj my daughter is enthralled with the
Welsh dragon 1 pound coin though.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 16:54:14 clearclaw2 Hehn
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 17:00:54 kj ?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 17:08:06 kj So you are a rail game fan it says
somewhere... Know of anywhere where the value you of your rail company is
determined mathematically by your history of company dividend payments? Thought
that might be an interesting idea if no one has done it yet.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 17:10:25 kj Looks like maybe Union Pacific does
this to some extent - anyone played that one?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 17:11:03 Seth JC: if you like:
http://www.dakotacom.net/~sej/OP/OhanaProa.pdf
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 17:11:25 Seth shells, fish/rotton fish, route
markers
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 17:11:35 Seth the route markers aer a little big
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 17:11:41 Seth and would take a lot of cutting
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 17:12:09 kj cute
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 17:23:53 clearclaw2 Seth: A friend is making
markers for OP on a laser cutter ATM
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 17:24:47 clearclaw2 Nice work.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 19:59:46 Zzzzz
[color=#008080] ,,.,,...,,.,.,,.,.,..,! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 20:17:37 Zzzzz Gogolski quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 20:39:59 clearclaw Seth: Do you mind if I
release your tokens PDF?
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 20:42:05 clearclaw Latest post typo on
Cumbersome: aucti8on
nickname to seo
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 21:12:42 seo I saw a good movie. Not a great
movie, but a good movie. Not bad at all.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 21:13:59 seo The Orphanage, I think it's the
English title (It's a Spanish movie), but IMDB is down right now.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 21:14:25 seo anyway, I'll go get some sleep and
wake up early for work tomorrow.
ch_SpielTalk! 06/06/2008 23:40:49 Zzzzz kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 03:47:05 Seth Yeah, you can release that pdf,
sure
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 03:47:18 Seth I'll check out that typo
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 03:47:32 Seth I played 2 games of brass today and
taught 4 newbies as we;;
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 03:47:41 Seth OMG etothepi is SLOW
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 03:47:53 Seth the 3p game where Tyler and I
taught him took 3.5 or so hours
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 03:48:16 Seth ALL MU OTHER GAMES of it (all 4p,
all lerning games for at least 1 person) took 2.5
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 05:58:13 seo hi there. everyone sleeping?
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 07:51:50 Zzzzz [color=#008080] no! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 07:52:17 Zzzzz [color=#008080] but I am going to
afk for a while, MORE FAMILY TIME TODAY! yeah I get to avoid work! [/color]
Zzzzz-afk
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 08:25:52 seo good for you, Dave! I hope you have
a good time. I'll have to work all day, but there's tennis and F1 on TV this
weekend, so maybe it's not going to be that bad,
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 08:30:47 kj morning
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 08:32:12 kj how's things down there?
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 08:32:27 kj and have you worked on your tennis
game recently?
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 08:39:42 seo things have been too busy, and I
haven't worked on any of my games lately for that very reason :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 08:42:07 kj bummer - just getting back into
games for the first time in a while, though it will be tough to continue with
summer supposedly coming soon.
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:02:34 Seth kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:17:23 Gogolski [color=#7F7F7F] Yo seo! I
think the zuntzu version of "The Hands" will be ready quite soon! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:17:56 seo oh, that would be good.
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:18:08 Gogolski [color=#000000] I don't have
much time this weekend to work on it, but it will probably be ready somewhere next
week... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:18:29 seo I doubt I'll have time to play it
during the next couple weeks, but at least I'll be able to feel it :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:20:31 Gogolski [color=#000000] How do you
feel an electronic gamebox? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:22:26 seo I dunno, but I guess it's closer to
the real experience than just reading the blog :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:23:24 seo Actually, I DO know. I played Tikal
a couple times on the web before I bought it, and it feels pretty much the same
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:24:40 Gogolski [color=#000000] Well, the box
will likely change after next play. I also have redisign the board, there will be
no more triangles, just spaces/areas that seemlessly flow into eachother [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:25:46 Gogolski [color=#000000] You can just
go anywhere, just place your creature and followers in the area, no more restricted
or measured movement... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:26:18 seo more emphasys on where you are than
how you go from one place to another. I like it
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:27:23 Gogolski [color=#000000] It simplifies
the creatures. Cutting the movement rules is ne of the changes to be tried out next
playtest [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:29:23 Gogolski [color=#000000] Also, Iwonder
how the new disasters will play. They should be more viable and attractive to play
now. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:31:06 seo How do they work? You have
disasters you can play whenever you find convenient?
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:32:21 seo chat just died on me :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:33:32 seo anyway, the doubles Roland Garros
final is about to start, with an unexpected Uruguayan playing, so I'll focus on the
TV
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:34:07 Gogolski [color=#000000] Each player
has an identical deck of eight cards. They get shuffled the upper one of each deck
is turned. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:35:00 Gogolski [color=#000000] Each round,
players first select an amount of food-producing followers. Then each in turn does
one action (three times) Then players have the option to execute the miracle or the
disaster on their card. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:36:23 Gogolski [color=#000000] Last in a
round: scoring and feeding [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:36:53 seo but if they don't want to play it
they can just discard it? or it's a choice between miracle or disaster, with both
in the same card?
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:39:22 Gogolski [color=#000000] It is both on
the same card (eight cards with a miracle AND a disaster on it) You can do either
the miracle or the disaster or pass. You can offer two food to draw the next card
if the miracle or disaster don't suite you [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:39:51 Gogolski [color=#000000] If you just
pass, the card stays where it is for the next round [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:40:19 Gogolski [color=#000000] I'm going to
try that you can offer food to a player to perform his miracle instead... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:40:20 seo ok
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:41:07 seo the match just started, I'll be
more focused on the TV than the computer from now on
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:41:27 Gogolski [color=#000000] No pro, I'll
be off soon too... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:41:32 Gogolski [color=#000000] Laters!
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 09:41:53 seo bye, keep me posted on the gamebox
progress!
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 10:34:41 clearclaw2 Gogolski quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 13:57:44 Seth Check it:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/23931/comment/835452#comment835452
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:00:09 clearclaw I've also successfully taught
Container to newbies. It became their favourite game.
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:00:34 Seth container is exceptionally easy to
teach
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:01:23 Seth and learn
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:01:25 Seth and play
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:01:37 Seth thought o be good at is argualy
another story
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:01:46 Seth Brass is fiddly as hell
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:02:11 Seth If I could sit down with Martin
Wallace I would say "what the hell is with Birkinhead???
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:02:16 Seth among other thingd
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:02:17 Seth s
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:06:54 Seth ... lunchtime
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:06:55 Seth later
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:13:26 clearclaw Ben is intending to post a
Container strategy article soon. In is quite insightful (even if I degree with
portions due to different can't-win-player dynamics)
http://kanga.nu/~claw/blog/2008/06/07/ohana-proa/bitticus/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkenhead
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:15:05 clearclaw IIRC he lives not far from
there.
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 14:26:07 clearclaw s/degree/disagree/
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:05:24 Seth On the Brass map, there's a
"virtual" link between Liverpool and Birkinhead
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:06:03 Seth which counts as an owned link, but
you can't take Coal across it
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:06:06 clearclaw Which is logical/reasonable.
They are across the bay from each other and there is considerable transport between
them.
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:06:20 clearclaw (albeit not shipping)
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:06:38 Seth Oh! Maybe that means if you have a
ship building card or a port card you can always play it in Liverpool, even if
you're not otherwise connected, because it counts as an owned link?
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:06:58 Seth it's just a rules exception
nightmare
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:07:07 clearclaw I don't recall the Brass
particulars.
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:07:15 Seth the game would be easy to explain
if it weren't by Martin Wallace
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:07:49 Seth that virtual link is a big fat
rules exception, with lots of little rules exception and rules questoins swarming
around it
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:08:08 clearclaw shrugs. Stylistic chrome.
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:08:48 clearclaw heads for the indoor rain
room.
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:09:14 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] GAMEBOX!
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:09:57 clearclaw Might take the youg'un to
Kung Fu Panda this w/e. Sigh.
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:10:02 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] lol my chat
was dead and about 8 hours behind [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:11:07 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] Kung Fu
Panda! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:13:31 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] seo you still
working? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:33:14 seo had a break to watch the Roland
Garros doubles final
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:33:23 seo the Uruguayan won :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:36:25 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] ah nice
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:36:34 Zzzzz-afk Zzzzz-afk changes his/her
nickname to Zzzzz
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:36:59 Zzzzz [color=#008080] i get to run to the
store to figure out if I can find anything to control a possible mole problem, i
think i might have!! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:37:11 seo gotta go to the grocery store
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:37:38 Zzzzz [color=#008080] ok later.. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:38:02 Zzzzz [color=#008080] very odd how our
two VERY different lives have so much in common right now! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 15:38:23 Zzzzz [color=#008080] talk to you more
later if you need a breather, I have to pass a new EPOCH idea by you when you have
time [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 16:06:13 seo I'm back
pv_89e1f5a7f5405db71b1324d82bad8674_9da3acbd7d7f7ccc07cd33d0fd6ee185 07/06/2008
16:07:40 seo ...and extremely interested to hear about that new idea
16:08:01 seo I guess you'll want to keep it secret :-)
16:19:25 Zzzzz [color=#008080] sorry was getting Grady ready to go back
out... [/color]
16:19:56 Zzzzz [color=#008080] here is an image I found, another twist on
the timeline and I think I am going to model this idea in EPOCH [/color]
16:20:07 Zzzzz [color=#008080]
http://www.animators.com/aal/pressarticles/images/images/IconTimeline.gif [/color]
16:20:49 Zzzzz [color=#008080] Basically I want each segment to have
locations above/below that players will be able to position chits/tokens/whatever
that outline something for that period of time [/color]
16:21:06 Zzzzz [color=#008080] so one though was technology
placement/building (if I decide to do that in the game). [/color]
16:21:50 Zzzzz [color=#008080] so over time you have various + or - on
tech, and maybe you need so much previous + or i to play another tech/build
[/color]
16:21:50 seo so you have predefined spots for the players to fill
16:22:17 seo and I guess once all spots for a specific year are filled,
some discovery is done or something?
16:22:39 Zzzzz [color=#008080] so the first few segments might only allow
+1 or -1 techs... based on what is played for the first segment it influences what
might be playable for the second segement etc. sort of showing growth or decline
over the *years* [/color]
16:23:04 seo sounds good
16:23:21 Zzzzz [color=#008080] yeah I would also tie in an event/discovery
based on what is going on. [/color]
16:23:43 Zzzzz [color=#008080] but I have not really fleshed out the ideas
yet, I just liked the idea of some influence using this timeline imaging [/color]
16:23:54 seo are you thinking on individual timelines for each player,
or all players share one timeline and place their tokens there?
16:24:00 Zzzzz [color=#008080] anyways I still need to go out... so I can
come back and work. [/color]
16:24:12 seo I lean towards shared timeline
16:24:14 Zzzzz [color=#008080] I was thinking sharing of one timeline so
you impact each other [/color]
16:24:29 seo good
16:24:42 Zzzzz [color=#008080] we can talk a little more later, if we both
have more time. but time for a little shopping [/color]
16:24:55 seo go get rid of that mole!
16:25:21 Zzzzz [color=#008080] yeah... not like I need more to do!!!
[/color]
16:25:25 seo I hope you mean the underground animal, not a spy posing as
one of your guys ;-)
16:25:35 Zzzzz [color=#008080] lol... you never know! [/color]
16:25:40 Zzzzz [color=#008080] talk to you more later [/color]
16:25:48 seo ok
16:25:53 seo I'll probably be around
16:26:57 seo maybe one day soon, when we have a bit less work on our
shoulders, we can work on some game together
16:28:27 seo it would be fun
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 16:29:51 Rick-Holzgrafe joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 16:31:27 Rick-Holzgrafe Rick-Holzgrafe quit
seo-AFK
16:43:17 seo seo changes his/her nickname to seo-AFK
18:29:02 Zzzzz [color=#008080] yes it would [/color]
ch_seo 07/06/2008 20:37:55 Zzzzz joins seo
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 20:54:35 kj hi - anyone home?
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 21:08:43 kj ZZZZ - if you could PM me with the
answer to this if you have a minute: If I want to write a short article on how I
make tiles (one way, atleast), where should I put it? In a blog? Or is there a
way to wikify it?
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 21:13:14 Zzzzz [color=#008080] kj you have two
options... one write up the content you want to have added under one of the
existing wiki pages are a submission, an admin should than take it and wikify it.
option 2, ask darke if you can have editor permissions so you can create and wikify
the data you want to add. not sure his desires on editors/etc right now bo [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 21:13:15 Zzzzz [color=#008080] UGH [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 21:13:19 Zzzzz [color=#008080] just missed him
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 22:32:40 Seth ahh... won another game of brass
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 22:43:18 kj I'm back , sort of...
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 22:45:23 Seth that's like 4-2
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 22:55:27 kj hey Seth - how's it going?
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 22:55:39 Seth fine
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 22:55:39 Seth you?
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 22:56:01 kj not bad - got a revised prototype
done too - didn't get a chance to try it though
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 22:56:14 kj did you ever do more with the pizza
delivery game?
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 22:56:27 kj (today, not too)
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 22:57:17 Seth not yet
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 23:42:19 Seth Hey
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 23:42:23 Seth Brass is cool
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 23:42:42 Seth I wonder what Tom meant when he
said it was Degenerate
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 23:44:04 Seth the first tim eI played I felt like
it might be light on interaction, because it seemed like we were all playing
solitaire. But I remember saying to myself "I bet once you know what you're doing
there's a lot more interaction going on"
ch_SpielTalk! 07/06/2008 23:44:09 Seth and I was exacty right
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 00:16:12 clearclaw I'll have to remember to ask
him. He'll likely be at the gamesday later this month
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 00:18:23 clearclaw It should work for comments
too.
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 00:18:33 clearclaw Netao! Little blog plugin
that auto-links phrases to preset URLs I've previously established. Thus, for
instance, every mention of Wealth of Nations is auto-linked to the 'geek's entry.
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 00:40:59 clearclaw The new collection editor
seems mostly silly.
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 01:31:06 Seth wow, cool feature!
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 01:31:14 Seth what do you have to do to impliment
it?
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 02:33:33 Seth I wrote a strategy post/question
for Brass re: first move (Settler-Quarry)
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 02:49:58 Seth ... ho does one clear their cache
again?\
03:48:13 clearclaw Zzzzz quit (timeout)
nickname to seo
05:17:54 seo-AFK seo-AFK changes his/her nickname to seo
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 05:18:04 seo ...
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 08:10:57 Zzzzz [color=#008080] ... [/color]
Zzzzz-afk
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:03:07 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] hey [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:03:30 seo did you have any luck with the
mole?
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:03:56 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] not yet, I am
applying some stuff today that should *repel* it, though chances are that will not
entirely work [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:04:20 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] but it looks
like it is going to rain, so I am sort of debating if I should apply it now or not
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:04:50 seo I would wait
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:05:02 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] yeah...
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:05:15 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] so how is the
work going? still grinding away? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:05:41 seo still working, yeah
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:06:13 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] yeah I sort
of slacked off this weekend... so I am really going to pay for it later
tonight/this week [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:06:18 seo but last night I was so tired that
I had en early dinner and went to sleep
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:06:30 seo woke up early this morning to
compensate a bit
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:07:09 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] ah... guess
that is one bonus for you, your schedule can sort of flow however suits your needs
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:08:01 seo yes, but only up to a point. I wish
it would really suit my needs and wishes ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:08:12 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] true [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:08:37 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] well time for
more yard work for me... talk to you more later... maybe [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:08:58 seo ok. I'll be around most of the day,
I think
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:27:44 seo JC
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:27:57 clearclaw Yea?
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 09:28:13 seo hi, just that
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 11:15:01 seo .
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 12:00:01 seo ..
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 15:57:41 seo you guys are having fun today, uh!
While I work.
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 15:59:35 seo except JC, who is probably having a
fulfilling intellectual challenge ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:22:16 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] play!!
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:25:48 seo ha! I wish I could!
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:26:09 seo how's your pet mole doing? :-P
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:29:16 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] good good,
still alive since I was not able to apply the repel stuff today. and eve nwhen I do
there is a good chance it will still be my *pet*! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:30:21 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] and if things
were not bad enough, I have to switch Doctors!!! and I think I have some type of
stomach issue going on! ugh, all stress related would be my diagnosis [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:34:20 seo look at the bright side: if you
have gastritis, at least it is spelled the same in English and Spanish :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:35:24 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] ah! good way
to look at it! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:35:43 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] guess I need
to work a little [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:35:46 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] MORE [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:36:12 seo sounds familiar
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:36:35 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] yeah...
though unlike you I am REALLY slacking [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:37:18 seo oh, I thought you were going to say
"I am REALLY working" :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:38:29 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] hehe [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:40:58 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] so any end in
sight for you work? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:44:06 seo nope :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:46:49 seo but I've been trying not to think
about that, just keep pushing and some day I'll reach the end of it
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:50:46 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] ah...
understood [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:51:42 seo right now, I'm going to take a
break and spend a bit of time with the family :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:53:07 seo ttyl, or tomorrow
seo-AFK
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 16:54:10 Zzzzz-afk [color=#008080] later
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 17:45:49 Zzzzz-afk Zzzzz-afk changes his/her
nickname to Zzzzz-melts
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 19:22:51 Zzzzz-melts Zzzzz-melts changes his/her
nickname to Zzzzz-not-here
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 20:19:17 kj howdy all
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 20:56:43 seo-AFK doho123 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 08/06/2008 22:46:00 Zzzzz-not-here kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 01:14:59 Seth JC: At Michael's today I saw some
little blue glass fish in the area by the mosaic tiles
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 01:15:04 Seth I also saw the same tuiles like you
have
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 01:15:10 Seth where did you get yours again?
sej-headache
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 01:46:35 Zzzzz-not-here sej-headache quit
(timeout)
nickname to seo
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:34:01 Zzzzz-yepp-working joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:34:54 Zzzzz-yepp-working Zzzzz-yepp-working
changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-bad-hubby
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:46:07 seo bad hubby?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:46:52 seo you forgot the anniversary or W. b-
day?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:46:53 Zzzzz-bad-hubby yepp with life so crazy
I am just not playing my A game when it comes to being a husband
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:47:01 Zzzzz-bad-hubby not forgot, just suppar
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:47:05 Zzzzz-bad-hubby subpar*
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:47:31 Zzzzz-bad-hubby and of course like any,
my wife is not happy to be *getting older*
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:47:46 Zzzzz-bad-hubby scott no longer in reno
I see
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:48:29 doho123 nah, usual Reno days are
Monday, Tues, Wed
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:48:40 doho123 every 6 to 8 weeks now
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:48:47 Zzzzz-bad-hubby ah
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:51:08 seo Dave: don't worry, it happens, but
you'll get back to form, I'm sure :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:51:30 Zzzzz-bad-hubby we shall see, we shall
see
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:51:51 Zzzzz-bad-hubby not much I can do, sadly
I can only do so much with my very little time
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:52:07 Zzzzz-bad-hubby it was a choice *we*
made so there has to be some give on my being *perfect*
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:55:38 seo marriages don't work that way!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:56:31 Zzzzz-bad-hubby ?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:56:32 Zzzzz-bad-hubby ?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:57:14 Zzzzz-bad-hubby I understand what you
are saying but ??? lol
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 06:59:58 seo hehehe
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:01:31 seo the reules are clear, maybe a bit
unbalanced, but cristal clear: they get pregnant, carry the baby inside for months,
and have to endure giving birth or having a c-section, we should be perfect in
exchange.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:02:04 seo maybe you can bargain a bit because
she didn't carry Grady all nine months! ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:03:26 seo though any bargaining may lead to
some of your hubby duties being put on hold...
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:03:57 Zzzzz-bad-hubby lol
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:04:59 Zzzzz-bad-hubby anyways
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:05:13 Zzzzz-bad-hubby so get this, I went to
the local gaming store Saturday!!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:05:22 Zzzzz-bad-hubby please no applause
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:05:32 seo bought anything?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:05:50 Zzzzz-bad-hubby nope... could no focus
on anything that was appealing to me
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:06:05 Zzzzz-bad-hubby the store is just a
MESS/DISORGANIZED with its games
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:06:14 Zzzzz-bad-hubby it was just impossible
for me to *see* anything
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:06:15 seo that's because the best games are
yet to be designed
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:06:29 seo (by us)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:06:33 Zzzzz-bad-hubby true true
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:07:19 Zzzzz-bad-hubby i thought I might get
lucky and find that crappy WoN game that everyone was talking about in chat, just
so I could be *cool* and play it. that way I could talk about it being crappy too!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:07:57 doho123 good plan
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:08:42 seo the eternal desire to be geeky-hip
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:08:50 Zzzzz-bad-hubby well I thought it might
be, but no luck since I could not even see a game with the word Wealth or Nations
on the shelf.... seriously not sense of organization in this store
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:09:03 Zzzzz-bad-hubby no*
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:09:38 seo was there a store owner anywhere
around?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:09:48 Zzzzz-bad-hubby I was going to suggest
that they at least organize by alphabet, but of course I did not want to argue the
*organize by type* etc that would have occurred
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:09:55 doho123 you should of organized
everything for them
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:10:11 Zzzzz-bad-hubby !
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:10:14 seo organize by number of components
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:10:16 doho123 "organize by component count"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:10:22 doho123 bah!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:10:25 seo organize by BGG rank
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:10:26 Zzzzz-bad-hubby see I should have talk
to you, dropped the bal on that one
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:10:35 doho123 by BGG rank would be great
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:10:47 Zzzzz-bad-hubby that would be good
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:10:58 Zzzzz-bad-hubby someone walks by "Ummmm
what are you doing?"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:11:03 doho123 you'd never find anything!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:11:18 Zzzzz-bad-hubby hmmm maybe that is what
they did!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:11:23 Zzzzz-bad-hubby because I could NOT find
anything
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:11:36 Zzzzz-bad-hubby I honestly cannot tell
you what I looked at, it might not have even been games
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:11:38 doho123 "This is where we display our
games that are ranked below 4 according to BGG. In other words, our big sellers"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:11:45 seo see, maybe it was all tidy!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:11:55 seo maybe it was the wrong store
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:12:04 Zzzzz-bad-hubby maybe
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:13:29 Zzzzz-bad-hubby Zzzzz-bad-hubby changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-geeky-hip
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:14:18 seo you need to buy, play and talk bad
about WoN first!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:14:54 Zzzzz-geeky-hip no no no !!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:15:03 Zzzzz-geeky-hip I want to be geeky hip!!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:15:39 Zzzzz-geeky-hip just for a day!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:21:49 doho123 doho123 changes his/her
nickname to doho123_really_hip
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:22:47 Zzzzz-geeky-hip NO!!!
seo-waist (higher th
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:23:02 Zzzzz-geeky-hip someone always
overshadows me!! lol
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:23:07 seo-waist (higher th dammit!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:23:27 doho123_really_hip no very hip ther!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:23:31 seo-waist (higher th I meant higher
than hip!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:23:41 seo-waist (higher th seo-waist (higher
th changes his/her nickname to seo-waist
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:25:29 Zzzzz-geeky-hip Zzzzz-geeky-hip changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:25:37 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip beat that!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:28:39 seo-waist wow!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:28:54 seo-waist seo-waist changes his/her
nickname to seo-depressed
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:29:15 doho123_really_hip Zzzzz-geeky-seth
wins
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:30:38 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip lol
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:36:01 seo-depressed seo-depressed changes
his/her nickname to seo
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:36:18 seo I can't compete with that, you win
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:38:58 seo but to be Seth-hip you need to
design games for Scott and all that stuff
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:43:51 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip blah
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:45:18 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip Zzzzz-geeky-seth-
hip changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-geeky-loser
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 07:53:06 Zzzzz-geeky-loser i need beer!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:07:08 seo who doesn't?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:07:39 Zzzzz-geeky-loser true
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:08:05 seo gotta go get some door locks for
the new house
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:08:19 seo ttyl
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:08:20 Zzzzz-geeky-loser nice
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:08:23 Zzzzz-geeky-loser later
seo-AFK
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:33:13 dnjkirk You DO need beer!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:33:57 Zzzzz-geeky-loser exactly!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:34:48 dnjkirk I have a couple in the
fridge, finally
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:35:10 dnjkirk I can drink one for you if
you don't have one handy
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:35:17 dnjkirk I'd do it, because you're my
man.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:35:26 dnjkirk not because I want to drink
beer or anything
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:35:42 Zzzzz-geeky-loser well I dont have one
because I am at work and they sort of frown on it before lunch
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:35:55 doho123_really_hip before?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:35:56 dnjkirk crappy
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:36:00 doho123_really_hip after lunch is ok?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:36:20 dnjkirk I once told my great uncle he
shouldn't drink before lunch
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:36:26 Zzzzz-geeky-loser sometimes
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:36:33 dnjkirk he told me"that's just beer!
This is scotch!"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:36:42 Zzzzz-geeky-loser we even have beer at
company meetings
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:37:36 Zzzzz-geeky-loser and I should clarify
that those meetings take place at the office
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:37:43 Zzzzz-geeky-loser at/in
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:38:57 Zzzzz-geeky-loser so dylan you moved yet?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:39:20 dnjkirk nope, still sitting in
Colombo
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:39:22 dnjkirk getting closer
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:39:28 dnjkirk 5 weeks or so
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:39:31 dnjkirk crap, it's close
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:41:08 Zzzzz-geeky-loser ah
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:41:29 Zzzzz-geeky-loser sounds close...
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:41:47 Zzzzz-geeky-loser so is Genji done? can I
finally buy it?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:42:09 dnjkirk one store is saying they will
be stocking it June 23
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:42:19 dnjkirk I wait to see that happen in
the àreal world
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:42:48 Zzzzz-geeky-loser i would be happy to just
be able to click the order online button at zev site!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:43:16 dnjkirk well hopefuly it will have
been printed (and even more hopefully, shipped) at the end of the month
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:44:06 Zzzzz-geeky-loser well it would be nice if
he printed it before Origins! that is like June 26th ish
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:44:22 Zzzzz-geeky-loser so your debut could be
at a semi big Con!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:44:28 dnjkirk would be nice indeed, but we
may miss it
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:44:49 dnjkirk he's in australia until the
11th, and I doubt he'd be on track to stitch that one up
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:45:03 Zzzzz-geeky-loser well at least that means
I should be able to pick it up in person at GenCON
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:45:13 dnjkirk coooooool
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:45:26 Zzzzz-geeky-loser if I go... at this rate
I might not be going. but you never know what I might do
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:45:30 dnjkirk Genji at GenCON... that is so
sweet! :)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:45:37 Zzzzz-geeky-loser lol
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:45:52 Zzzzz-geeky-loser there is your Marketing!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:45:59 doho123_really_hip "Genji banned from
GENCON due to subjective racial artwork"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:46:40 Zzzzz-geeky-loser oh!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:46:58 dnjkirk yeah, must have a good
distribution of races in the games about Japan
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:46:59 Zzzzz-geeky-loser nah there is more
*subjective racial* people so a game should be ok if they let ppl int
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:47:16 doho123_really_hip WHERE ARE THE
ELVES!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:47:18 Zzzzz-geeky-loser in*
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:47:25 dnjkirk the ever-present Indian
population of medieval Japan would feel left out
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:47:40 Zzzzz-geeky-loser maybe
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:47:49 dnjkirk I think the GenCon crowd
worry more about where the ninjas are
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:48:22 Zzzzz-geeky-loser i think the GenCON crowd
does not worry about much... they are more or less zombies to all the eye candy
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:48:29 doho123_really_hip This game sucks,
NO CHAINMAIL BABES!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 08:48:42 Zzzzz-geeky-loser exactly
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:03:35 Zzzzz-geeky-loser ..
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:03:38 Zzzzz-geeky-loser ..
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:03:55 doho123_really_hip ...
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:04:43 Zzzzz-geeky-loser chat was flaking out on
me, imagine that.
nickname to seo
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:15:37 seo Hi Dylan
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:15:52 dnjkirk hi Seo
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:16:14 seo Would you be so kind to dring a
beer for me too?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:16:27 seo drink*
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:17:13 dnjkirk sweet, I just so happen to
have two beer!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:18:06 seo So, I'm not going to NY this July,
but my daughter is going, and she'll be able to bring a copy of Genji for me :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:18:32 seo Should I pre-order in case it is
sold out in advance?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:19:05 dnjkirk sweet!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:19:20 dnjkirk don't worry, it will be
behind the counter with the storekeepers' lunch
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:19:46 dnjkirk she'll have to ask for it by
name and he'll say "Genji? Oh THAT."
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:20:22 Zzzzz-geeky-loser lol stop it Dylan
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:20:36 doho123_really_hip "Oh that game I'm
using to prop up the short leg on my coffeetable?"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:20:59 Zzzzz-geeky-loser lol uch
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:21:00 clearclaw Nudge. Nughe. Wink. Wink.
Say no more!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:21:00 Zzzzz-geeky-loser ouch*
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:21:15 dnjkirk "that's a game?"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:22:24 seo "I though it was a dish set!"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:22:46 dnjkirk You know, the Noritake Genji
pattern... this isn't saucers?"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:23:24 Zzzzz-geeky-loser what a rough chat room
this is!! lol
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:23:24 Zzzzz-geeky-loser
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:25:22 seo now you know why you failed to find
WoN the other day, Dave
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:35:40 Zzzzz-geeky-loser yepp
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:45:06 Zzzzz-geeky-loser i wonder how much that
store would have wanted for WoN, and knowing what people have chatted about in
here, I would most like not bought it
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:48:09 seo store prices are usualy a lot
higher than online prices, aren't them?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:49:45 doho123_really_hip I just don't see
how niche market retail stores can survive against the internet
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:50:26 Zzzzz-geeky-loser yeah... though the local
place here survives on the *a place to gather and play*, I think
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:50:41 Zzzzz-geeky-loser which I think is the
only means of survival
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:50:50 Zzzzz-geeky-loser and yet I still do not
know how it survives
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:51:56 Zzzzz-geeky-loser the only reason I went
is because I was close by and had an impulse desire to BUY something right at that
moment. lucky for me I was dazed by the fun organizational skills of the board
games,
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:52:01 Zzzzz-geeky-loser so I did not spend any
money
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:52:50 Zzzzz-geeky-loser Zzzzz-geeky-loser
changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-geeky-luncher
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:53:32 dnjkirk Scott, I think the "Long
Tail" theory agrees with you
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:53:57 seo ?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:54:11 doho123_really_hip yep. it's exactly
the long tail
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:54:43 doho123_really_hip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Tail
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:56:13 seo ah, thanks!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:56:23 clearclaw compares the "1,000 true
fans" articles with the "Long Tail" articles.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:57:23 doho123_really_hip long tail
basically says that due to costs associtated with stocking, a retail store can only
"afford" to sell the top hit porducts.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:58:02 doho123_really_hip but if you can
come up with a cheap stocking/distribution model, you can make money off of
offereing many non-hits to the smaller group of people who don't want the "hits"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:58:33 dnjkirk I believe this is the start
of the home-fab revolution
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:58:40 clearclaw It says a log more than that,
among which are that the market is now large enough ifyou have a good enough
communications system almost anything can find a market.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:59:15 doho123_really_hip sure, it's more
than that, but that's the gerenal gist.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:59:20 clearclaw cf the 1,000 true fans
articles for instance, or the sales rate per title for iTunes.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 09:59:35 clearclaw The iTunes bit is what really
got me.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 10:00:03 clearclaw The 1K gans articles were
obvious once the premise had sunk inl
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 10:00:14 clearclaw s/gans/fans/
http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fans.php
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 10:02:12 clearclaw http://www.google.com/search?
q=1000+true+fans
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 10:19:53 dnjkirk interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 10:56:47 seo though Ihad lunch already
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 10:57:05 doho123_really_hip crazy South
American timezone
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 10:57:09 kj I can't account for your strange
time zone :)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 10:58:39 kj Did two playtests of my new tile
game yesterday. Went pretty well. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:02:35 Seth http://www.fundable.org/ <- do
these guys take a cut?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:03:18 seo @kj: good to hear!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:04:09 Seth .... 7%
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:04:16 seo @Seth: "Completed collections (and
only completed collections) have a 7% fee taken from their totals."
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:04:49 seo plus $10 is you want a check
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:05:24 seo sounds good for games self
publishing
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:05:46 Seth yes, that's what I was thinking
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:05:46 seo (if you don't have JC to organize
the whole thing)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:07:40 kj interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:07:48 kj @seo - thanks ...
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:08:47 seo the bad part is you have only 26
days
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:12:41 Seth is google loading properly for you
guys?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:12:46 Seth rather gmail
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:12:59 GamesOnTheBrain ya
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:13:06 dnjkirk must sleep!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:13:08 dnjkirk night!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:13:31 seo bye
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:14:10 seo gmail is slow, but works
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:14:45 GamesOnTheBrain fast as normal for me
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:14:52 seo once it loaded, it works fine
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:15:03 clearclaw IIRC ChipIn is preferable to
Fundable.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:15:21 clearclaw But I've not researched
either. ChipIn appears to be free though -- not sure how they cover costs.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:15:55 GamesOnTheBrain Played 3 or 5 player
Wealth of Nations, JC?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:16:22 Seth wants to try WoN
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:16:30 Seth played Brass 6 times last week
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:16:36 Seth likes Brass
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:16:40 GamesOnTheBrain wow
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:16:57 GamesOnTheBrain haven't tried that yet,
though I've seen it several times
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:17:12 Zzzzz-not-here dnjkirk quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:17:44 clearclaw I've only played 2/3 of a
game of Brass. I thought the cards annoying. The reast was Okay-ish. There was
no hook.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:19:31 Seth the cards are a little annoying
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:19:52 GamesOnTheBrain is it me, or are all of
Martin Wallace's games liek that
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:19:55 Seth I think you have to play like 3
games with the same people to see a ton of interactoin unfold
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:19:57 clearclaw I'd probably put a "very" in
there.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:20:01 GamesOnTheBrain the bad graphics, i mean
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:20:13 clearclaw Brass' graphics are bad?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:20:36 GamesOnTheBrain maybe i'm thinking of
something else... jas
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:20:38 clearclaw [color=#008080] (seem quite
reasonable to me) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:20:39 seo Chip in seems to just collect
money, while Fundable only charges contributors if the goal is reached.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:21:09 GamesOnTheBrain i must be thinking of
something else
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:21:52 GamesOnTheBrain thinking of Tinners
Trail
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:22:10 clearclaw [color=#008080] You think
TInner's Tale has sub-par presentation? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:22:18 GamesOnTheBrain ya
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:22:26 GamesOnTheBrain absolutely
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:22:37 clearclaw [color=#008080] why? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:22:53 GamesOnTheBrain it's adequate... but
amateur imho
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:22:58 seo brass looks a bit like a nice
prototype
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:23:21 doho123_really_hip kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:23:25 GamesOnTheBrain ya... brass is decent
but not great
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:24:00 clearclaw [color=#008080]
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/339676 Seems a perfectly fine board. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:24:01 GamesOnTheBrain re: tinners trail... the
decision to put the charts facing different directions is imho poor
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:24:36 clearclaw [color=#008080] Presumably
base on the idea that at least some charts will be face up to some players.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:24:52 GamesOnTheBrain right... i understand
why just don't like it
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:24:58 seo I agree with GOTB. It's acceptable,
but not great
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:25:20 Seth Brass' only presentation problem as
far as I'm concerned is poorly designed cards
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:25:24 GamesOnTheBrain and base 20 when it
could have been base 10 instead seems odd to me too
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:25:32 GamesOnTheBrain for the money, that is
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:25:37 clearclaw [color=#008080] Apparently my
frequent play of 18XX and Winsome Game's products has rotted my sensibilities.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:25:53 GamesOnTheBrain perhaps... ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:26:36 GamesOnTheBrain here's my sense of good
graphics
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:26:37 GamesOnTheBrain
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/300588
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:27:33 clearclaw [color=#008080] That's a bit
too, ohh, what's that modern pulp artist who styles himself the something or other
of light? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:27:55 clearclaw [color=#008080] Way too
saturated, kitchy, and florid. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:28:07 GamesOnTheBrain not sure.... really?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:28:21 clearclaw [color=#008080] Really
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:28:35 GamesOnTheBrain interesting... i guess
that's why I use Mac OSX and you use Linux? :p
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:29:02 clearclaw [color=#008080] Perhaps.
Then again my most frequently played game recently is this visual masterpiece:
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/51144 [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:29:20 GamesOnTheBrain lol
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:29:52 GamesOnTheBrain you like a dice game?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:29:57 seo a bit too much for my taste too. I
guess that's why I'm on XP ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:30:01 GamesOnTheBrain i don't know anything
about it
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:30:29 clearclaw [color=#008080] I'm not fond
of the dice in LW, but I've been playing it a lot lately. Clever little game.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:30:52 GamesOnTheBrain a fried just got it, so
i hope to try it soon
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:32:49 clearclaw [color=#008080] I do like the
art for Bus. Greentown is kinda nice and clear. I'm quite fond of the 1st Ed Reef
Encounter (strongly dislike the Z-man print). [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:33:19 clearclaw [color=#008080] And amazingly
I like the art Doyle did for COntainer. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:33:56 GamesOnTheBrain so you like Doyle's
art... how about the Caylus premium edition
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:34:15 seo I like your protos, JC. The few
pics I've seen look elegant, visually balanced and pretty clear
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:35:02 clearclaw [color=#008080] Thanks -- I
work for exactly those values. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:35:23 clearclaw [color=#008080] No, I dislike
almost all the game art Doyle has done. Container is an exception. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:36:04 clearclaw confesses a liking for the
Metropolys art.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:36:20 GamesOnTheBrain i like that a lot too
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:36:26 GamesOnTheBrain in fact i bought it in
large part due to the art
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:36:49 GamesOnTheBrain arrives tomorrow :)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:38:13 seo I like Doyle's art for the
Brazilian Modern Art http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/163926
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:40:51 GamesOnTheBrain ya... i wish they'd
release that here in the U.S.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:41:22 Zzzzz-geeky-luncher Zzzzz-geeky-
luncher changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:41:30 Seth is not a big fan of Mike Doyle/s
art
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:43:08 GamesOnTheBrain he is pretty divisive...
most people love it or hate it
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:43:19 clearclaw [color=#008080] Actually I
should say that I like the Metropolys cover but am not fond of the board at all.
[/color]
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/318433 Ewwww! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:43:48 GamesOnTheBrain i like both, JC
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/152005 But I like the prototype art a lot more!
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:44:04 GamesOnTheBrain and the components... at
least from the bgg images
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:45:53 GamesOnTheBrain i think the board art
for Metropolys evokes a setting that few other games do... as you may know, theme
is important to me... much more than convenient words to describe things
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:46:05 GamesOnTheBrain although i see your
point
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:46:35 GamesOnTheBrain although i rarely
dislike a game because of its theme
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:48:15 clearclaw [color=#008080] I think 1960
is the only game the get the gut-level reaction to theme from me. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:49:00 GamesOnTheBrain ya... it is probably the
best integrated theme out there
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:49:03 clearclaw [color=#008080] I'm not sure
I see how the (new or old) board art for Metropolys invokes theme. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:49:53 clearclaw [color=#008080] Note: 1960 is
the only game I know of whose theme caused revulsion [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:49:53 GamesOnTheBrain i see board art a lot
like Doyle does... if you're going to sit in front of a board for an hour plus, it
might as well be something nice to look at
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:51:37 GamesOnTheBrain you hated 1960's theme?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:51:41 clearclaw [color=#008080] Oh I agree,
but then I do think those things I've been admiring are nice to look at: clear,
distinct, communicative, suggestive of precision etc. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:51:50 clearclaw [color=#008080] Yes, I
loathed 1960's theme. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:52:41 GamesOnTheBrain lol... i sometimes
wonder what kind of game we'd design together... we'd probably butt heads a lot
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:53:01 GamesOnTheBrain i love Wabash though
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:55:03 clearclaw [color=#008080] I agree.
Great game. I'm almost 60 plays in. I play with Ted Alspach's redraw of the
Wabash map though. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:55:19 GamesOnTheBrain is that online?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:55:23 clearclaw [color=#008080] (Someday I'll
get around to posting images of his redraw) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:55:57 clearclaw [color=#008080] Actually only
the last 20-ish games were on Ted's map. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:58:02 clearclaw [color=#008080] Lemmee see if
I can't get something up. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:58:34 Seth i olike that Stone Age board
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:58:39 Seth also Pillars of the Earth
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:58:45 Seth i think it looks nice
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:58:46 GamesOnTheBrain ya... same artist
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:58:49 Seth and its very usable
http://kanga.nu/~claw/IMG_0415.JPG [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:59:03 GamesOnTheBrain yes... usability is
important to me
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:59:31 clearclaw [color=#008080] That's Ted's
Wabash redraw [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:59:32 clearclaw [color=#008080] That's Ted's
redraw. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:59:44 GamesOnTheBrain either a huge file or
slow download... jas
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 11:59:48 clearclaw [color=#008080] Real colours
are slightly more saturated than that. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:00:50 clearclaw [color=#008080] (standard
problems of digital photography) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:01:09 clearclaw [color=#008080] 3796 -rw-r--
r-- 1 claw claw 3879882 2008-05-21 13:41 IMG_0415.JPG
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:01:24 clearclaw [color=#008080] File is
modestly large. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:01:46 GamesOnTheBrain still downloading
despite my fairly fast connection
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:02:03 clearclaw [color=#008080] Tht's the
pipe at this end. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:02:13 Seth looks much nicer than the original
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:02:23 GamesOnTheBrain i agree... much nicer
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:05:04 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip rolls an 8 and
collects a pig resource
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:06:00 GamesOnTheBrain um... ok
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:06:27 clearclaw [color=#008080] My complaint
about Ted's redraw is tht it is so damned big. The original map fits in the case.
Ted's never will. It would be great it were smaller and more covenient. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:06:43 GamesOnTheBrain ic
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:07:03 clearclaw [color=#008080] So I end up
having to carry Ted's map with my prototype maps in a stiff-card envelope, which is
rather a hassle. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:07:48 clearclaw [color=#008080] If my game
transport arrangements go as expected I'll almost never play on Ted's map again.
It won't fit in my bicycle case. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:08:23 clearclaw [color=#008080] There's no
need for the Wabash map to be much larger than the original. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:08:36 GamesOnTheBrain ok.... anyone played
utopia? is it really that bad?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:09:01 clearclaw [color=#008080] Seth: Comment
on your blog [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:09:13 GamesOnTheBrain just got a trade offer
of utopia for arkadia... i like arkadia but friends have it
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:09:13 clearclaw [color=#008080] Nope, never
even seen it played locally. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:09:52 seo Metropolys proto reminds me of my
INAS tiles: http://palaciodurazno.com/bgdf/inas/tile22.png
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:09:53 GamesOnTheBrain utopia's retail online
is about $10 more than arkadia, so i'm tempted to take it just for that
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:10:21 GamesOnTheBrain looks very similar, seo
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:10:24 clearclaw [color=#008080] INAS?
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:11:12 seo I Need A Sign, my World Bank game
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:11:53 clearclaw [color=#008080] Ahh [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:12:31 clearclaw imagines billboards strapped
to orbital kinetic crowbars, err, harpoons
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:12:50 clearclaw [color=#008080] Voom!
WALMART! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:13:25 clearclaw [color=#008080] Sort of early
model colonialism. This land is claimed for.... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:14:07 clearclaw [color=#008080] With the
added benefit that the blast crater clears the land for easier construction.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:23:15 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip hmmm has Darke
been around lately? I dont recall him being around at all last week
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:24:02 clearclaw [color=#008080] I've not seen
him for a long-ish while. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:33:25 seo GamesOnTheBrain quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:34:40 seo I haven't seen him either
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:36:21 clearclaw [color=#008080] That's one
thing I've found curious in the local gaming groups. Someone will show up, play a
lot of games, become relatively well known and then disappear, never showing up
again and there's almost no reaction. Oh, someone say, "Anyybody seen Mike
lately?" or "I wonder where Scott went?" but that's about it. It has happened more
than a few times. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:38:11 seo I certainly hope Darke is not gone
for good
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:38:31 clearclaw wouldn't suggest such.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:39:06 seo also, maybe I'm a bit of a stalker,
but I have written to a couple BGDF memebers after they have been away for some
time
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:39:42 seo actually, I was going to send an
email to René just yesterday
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:39:45 Seth nando's MIA as well
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:40:09 Seth Utopia seems OK, I don't really
know
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:40:11 clearclaw [color=#008080] I thought I
saw Nando login a few days back. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:40:22 Seth I like Arcadia - but I also picked
it up for 50% off at Barnes & Noble
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:40:24 seo yep, but I don't have Nando's
address handy
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:40:29 Seth when they had their sale
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:40:41 Seth I have Nando's gmail addy
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:42:41 Seth Hey - gmail works now :)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:43:18 Seth I'm not loving the Prlix changes
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:43:24 Seth *Prolix
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:43:34 Seth thoguh they're mostly not bad
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:43:45 clearclaw [color=#008080] Prolix?
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:43:56 Seth http://www.bgdf.com/tiki-
view_blog.php?blogId=182
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:44:03 Seth Gil's word game
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:44:32 clearclaw [color=#008080] Capiche
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 12:54:10 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip yeah I was not
sure of those changes to Prolix either, though I am not sure I can argue against
them
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 13:28:22 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip taco is worth
40pts in Prolix! just for you beginners
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 13:30:20 seo I like the changes, but I have
argued against them :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 13:34:07 seo I found the old tile movement a bit
odd, I like the new one better
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 13:40:08 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip the chip/tile
placement/replacment was a bit *rough*
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 13:54:27 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip catching up: seo
if Darke was gone the site will go bye bye in a few months since he controls the
payment/service side of things. so we will know our answer sooner or later!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 13:55:53 seo I rather try to send him an email
to find out before that!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 13:56:44 seo have you sent him anything yet?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 13:57:30 seo my guess is he's just too busy with
the SAP migration he was involved
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 13:57:45 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip no I have not
bothered him yet
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:06:43 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip so what games
SHOULD i know hot to play in order to be useful at a game playing event? any ideas
on what you feel people are really into playing these days? i might actually be
attending a local event and figured I should at least read a few rule books before
I go act like the newbie I am!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:06:56 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip s/hot/how
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:08:43 seo LMN, Ptolemy, EPOCH, chess, go,
tic-tac-toe, charades
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:09:00 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip noted!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:09:26 seo Reading Railroad
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:09:46 clearclaw2 I bring the games I want to
play and then find people to play them
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:09:48 seo ZIMP
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:10:17 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip though reading the
rules for EPOCH will prove difficult, the designer is just horrible at completing
them
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:10:26 seo I bring the games I want to play
and then FAIL TO find people to play them
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:11:35 doho123_really_hip ZIMP!!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:11:38 seo just make the rules up as you play!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:16:29 Seth Dave
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:16:55 Seth people play Stone Age, if recent
cons are any indication
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:17:03 Seth other new, accessible stuff is like
Aquaretto
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:17:26 Seth but at my group they play a lot
of ... let's see if RTeam posted recent stuff on BGG
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:18:18 seo my guess is they play a lot of
Seth's protos ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:18:24 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip thanks I was just
checking... obviously my lack of playing has me WAY out of touch these days.
hopefully I can just show up and play a few games and not worry about to much
learning curve
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:18:31 clearclaw2 Locally I see Pnademic
frequently, Race for the Galaxy even more so, Through the Ages is still a steady
shower with at least one game going every game night. Tichu is still strong.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:19:20 Seth nope, nothing posted since march :/
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/user/rteamgamers/contributions
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:19:39 Seth Pandemic, yeah
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:19:42 Seth Race
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:19:42 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip thanks... I will
jot this down for reference. sadly I have to find a little time to read these
rules, though I plan on making my life more fun by adding in some game playing,
maybe it will help my motivation for working
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:19:43 clearclaw2 Brass is somewhere in the
midde-ground but still pretty steady. Age of Steam is of course perrenial. There's
a sub-group that likes Vegas Showdown.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:19:46 Seth No Thanks
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:20:04 clearclaw2 I've not seen Geschenkt for
ages.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:20:07 Seth Traders of Genoa was Game of the
Month
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:20:14 Seth so it got played a few times
recently
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:20:24 Seth I duno what this month's GotM is
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:20:38 clearclaw2 GotM?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:20:52 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip Twister of Catan
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:22:42 Seth Game of the Month
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:23:17 clearclaw2 Yeah, what's the
structure/policy/etc?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:25:04 Seth we elect a GotM Guru, who chooses
the GotM for 3 months
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:25:38 Seth Some people make an effort to play
that game a couple of times during the month, others don't bother
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:25:45 Seth if it's a game I like Itry to play
it every week
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:26:02 Seth the point is to encourage people to
play the same game more than once.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:26:20 Seth explore strategies, get [i]good[/i]
at it maybe
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:26:35 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip how does selecting
it *encourage*?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:26:42 clearclaw2 Ahh, i do that by simply
refusing to play anything but a small number of games at any given time.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:28:48 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip not sure I could
refuse to play anything at this point... my lack of play has me feeling the need to
play just about anything requested lol
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:29:01 Seth Dave: it doesn't force anything,
it's just like saying "hey everyne, let's play X this month"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:29:04 Seth then some people do
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:29:21 Seth every week
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:29:22 Seth there's no requirements
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:29:22 clearclaw2 Just pop a vein dude. The
needle won't hurt a bit.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:29:28 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip i was not
attempting to mean force, just wondered how it really motivated people to play
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:30:28 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip i would just love
to play a few games that people in chat here discuss so I was could actively talk
about them too
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:30:49 clearclaw2 It takes precious little
suggestion to get people to play something they're not resistant to. Most players
are somewhat sheep-like in that regard.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:30:53 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip feels the need to
be something more than a lurker...
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:32:40 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip time for this
person to treat the wife to her birthday night of activities (which does not
include board games).... later all
hip changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-gone
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:36:50 Seth doho123_really_hip quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:36:50 clearclaw doho123_really_hip quit
(timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:37:42 seo Which of the following pairs of
cities on the Ticket to Ride board game are geographically "misplaced"?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:37:44 seo A) Portland - Salt Lake City
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:37:51 seo B) Little Rock - St. Louis
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:37:57 seo C) Duluth - Helena
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:38:03 seo D) Houston - New Orleans
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:39:44 Seth prolly all of them
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:40:16 clearclaw2 I'm fairly sure all the above
are not located on a game board. I think they're all in Northern America.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:40:36 Seth lol JC
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:41:48 seo hehe
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:42:59 seo What event did the free Ticket to
Ride Mystery Train expansion commemorate?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:47:29 seo Zzzzz-gone quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:49:58 Seth what are these questions from?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:50:10 Seth and "I don't know"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:50:22 Seth the game store manager was telling
me about TtR the card game today
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:50:32 Seth and I read the rules for Ming
Dynasty
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:50:35 Seth looks mediocre
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:50:50 seo
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:52:39 clearclaw2 I'm still interested in Huang
Di from last year.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/27574
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:53:12 clearclaw2 Hopefully copies will start
hitting shelves soon, or at least my shelf
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:53:46 Seth I got 3 right
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:53:56 Seth it commemorated the SdJ
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:54:08 Seth helena and Duluth are out of place
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:54:27 Seth those are the 2 I missed
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:54:29 kj I'm trying without knowing anything
about the game... :)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:55:26 kj Dang - 0 for 5.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:55:52 kj I guess I [i]really[/i] don't know
anything about the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:55:58 seo I'm a genius! 5 of 5 :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:56:05 kj grats :)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:56:28 seo not bad for someone who never
played the game
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:57:47 kj bows in your general direction
(south I guess).
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:57:55 Seth nice Seo
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:58:00 Seth now maybe you'll win the game!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:58:04 Seth and play it with Catalina
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:58:05 seo a bit to the East too
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:58:14 seo I hope so
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:58:33 seo at least I have more chances than
kj LOL
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 14:58:52 kj :)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:00:32 Seth MatthewF is on the site!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:00:35 Seth sound the alarm!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:00:43 Seth (speaking of people who
disappeared)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:01:23 Seth I thinjik he's gone :(
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:01:27 clearclaw2 MF is responsible got getting
me off my dander to make my own games.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:01:57 Seth howso?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:02:13 Seth I really liked his Everest
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:02:24 Seth and Elvencraft (I actually
suggested that name!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:02:38 clearclaw2 The standard litany of rotary
cutters, matt board, and other basic techniques.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:02:43 Seth he had a velociraptor racing game
that wasn't a bad start, though I think it needed something
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:02:49 Seth ah, yes
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:03:01 Seth he's the one that recommended
Xyron900 to me
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:03:12 Seth which is a huge help in making nice
cards
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:03:15 Seth and tiles
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:03:20 Seth Oh!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:03:27 Seth i just got new toys yesterday...
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:03:49 clearclaw2 I'm still a big fan of cut up
3x5 cards in cheap MtG card protectors.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:04:05 seo letter cubes?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:05:32 clearclaw2 muses on grabbing a copy of
Tinner's Trail.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:09:55 seo wonders is Seth went away to play
with his new toys...
http://www.fiskarscrafts.com/tools/t_roundnnroundl.aspx
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:12:18 Seth I just got circles tho
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:12:21 Seth not handprints
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:12:28 Seth I got Large and Medium
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:12:35 Seth they didn't have a Small at the
store
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:12:41 Seth large = 1.5"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:12:45 Seth med = 1"
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:12:59 Seth I presume small = 1/2" or 5/8"
maybe
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:13:07 Seth which would be nice
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:13:23 Seth I saw those 5/8" letter cubes at
Michaels too
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:13:38 Seth but they have different colors
front and back most of the time :(
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:13:46 Seth I had a neat idea
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:14:04 Seth Seo: isn't it possible - maybe
easy- to make a 2d square look like 3 sides of a 3d cube?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:16:00 Seth maybe I don't know how
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:20:28 Seth I think i got it
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:22:04 seo don't think do
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:22:14 seo easy with an hexagon, though
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:22:48 seo just draw three radiuses
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:23:29 seo you can do something that might
work from a square
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:24:13 Seth I think I figured it out
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:24:39 Seth Oh, or use hex tiles
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:24:53 Seth I ws thinking of using square tiles
instead of cubes, and I could print whatever I wanted on them
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:24:57 Seth I could use hex tiles
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:25:18 seo
http://palaciodurazno.com/bgdf/cube.gif
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:25:31 Seth heck, I could draw hexes and cut
them out with my new 1" circle punch :)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:25:47 Seth says page cannot be found
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:26:01 seo check again
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:29:10 seo works
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:29:21 seo ?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:30:32 Seth I see it
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:30:42 Seth i think the hex/circle idea is
better
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:31:18 seo
http://palaciodurazno.com/bgdf/cube-hex.gif
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:32:07 Seth yeah, like that
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:32:30 Seth then I can circumscribe a circle
9so I can know where to cut, and the circular tiles will have a little border)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:32:46 Seth and I can make the edges a color
and put a colored letter in each face
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:32:53 Seth so each tile has 1 color and 3
letters
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:32:59 Seth and look like alphabet blocks
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:33:00 Seth eh?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:33:11 Seth I think real blocks might benicer
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:33:16 Seth but this should work
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:33:28 Seth and I can use my new toy :)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:34:15 seo :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:37:09 Seth though frankly unlettered colored
cubes would be even easier
sej-BRB
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:56:54 sej-BRB sej-BRB changes his/her
nickname to sedjtroll
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 15:59:51 sedjtroll I don't see a small sized
Fiskars squeeze punch :(
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 16:17:25 sedjtroll maybe they don't make one :(
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 16:18:23 Zzzzz-not-here Zzzzz-not-here changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-here
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 17:05:48 seo you're there then?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 17:13:32 sedjtroll heh
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 17:47:25 sedjtroll .
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:06:30 seo .
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:07:05 sedjtroll .
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:08:52 seo Come on, JC! it's your turn. I hope
this is not an AP case, your move is obvious!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:09:18 sedjtroll lol
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:09:33 sedjtroll Seo makes a good point
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:10:01 seo always happy to amuse you, Seth :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:17:12 sedjtroll :)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:17:52 clearclaw2 ;
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:18:07 clearclaw2 takes it to a higher level.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:18:42 sedjtroll it's like a tennis serve,
zoomed in on the arm tossing the ball
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:19:09 sedjtroll JC: you gotta play some more
Brass so we can discuss the finer points!
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:19:25 clearclaw2 That seems unlikely.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:19:59 clearclaw2 dkeisen is currently trying
to sell me on Key harvest. Alas he'll be bringing it tomorrow and I've a release
that evening and won't be able to play
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:21:10 sedjtroll I'm nott oo excited about
keyharvest
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:21:21 clearclaw2 either.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:21:25 sedjtroll I've heard good things, but I
was disappointed by Keythedral
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:21:41 clearclaw2 What are your complaints on
keythedral?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:21:49 sedjtroll I suspect it's not 'your kind
of game" based on what little I know about Key Harvest and what little I really
know about your kind of game
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:21:58 sedjtroll I don't know if I recall them
offhand
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:21:58 clearclaw2 http://www.schiffner-
tischer.de/choice/
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:22:05 sedjtroll It just didn't thrill me
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:22:26 clearclaw2 I like Keythedral. Not a
great game, but Okay when played with an open Keythedral and face-up law cards.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:23:49 clearclaw2 How did Reef Encouter do with
you?
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:25:16 clearclaw2 Keythedral: I liked the
cascading efffect of turn order selections. The migration of value across resource
types (early/mid/late) was also well done. Some good opportunites for planning
ahead, good control, pleasantly zero sum, appropriately frustrating.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:36:30 seo time to go "In Therapy" on HBO
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:36:35 seo and have some dinner
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:36:44 seo bye bye
seo-AFK
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:39:20 seo-AFK seo-AFK quit
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:50:56 sedjtroll I fhated Reef Encounter, but
that may have been largely because we played wrong
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:51:01 sedjtroll it was explained all kinds of
worng
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 18:56:54 sedjtroll
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/metasearch.php?
searchtype=game&search=keythedral&B1=Go
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 19:03:55 Zzzzz-here sedjtroll quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 19:23:16 cocadieta I don't know if there are any
Will Oldham fans here but his new Bonnie "Prince" Billy record is just fantastic.
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 20:20:35 clearclaw cocadieta quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 09/06/2008 20:35:39 Zzzzz-here [color=#008080] .;. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 01:18:34 clearclaw Zzzzz-here quit (timeout)
seth-Zzzz
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 03:22:12 clearclaw2 Gogolski quit (timeout)
Zzzzz-not-here
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 07:23:52 seo Hi there
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 07:24:49 seo that includes you, Dave. If you're
not-here, you must be there
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 07:27:35 Zzzzz-not-here doho123 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 08:07:26 seo is amused by how yesterday Dave was
Zzzzz-Seth-hip and now Seth is Seth-Zzzz
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 08:18:06 seo Zzzzz-not-here quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 08:53:19 Zzzzz-yepp-working glad to amuse you
seo, at least it is a bright spot in your day of work!
changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:06:10 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip i think I have a
short circuit in my brain.... I just cannot focus, and I have this dull pain in the
left side of my head! lol
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:09:33 seo I know the feeling
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:09:40 seo too much stress
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:09:54 seo how did things go with Wendy?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:20:06 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip very fun, even
though she was already given her big present. I managed to buy her something small
(from Grady), a few cards, a nice little trip to the movies. I think it turned out
nicer than she expected. so i think it was positive in the end
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:21:09 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip i think I realized
that *we* as a family each need more fun time!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:21:28 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip the non stop daily
grind has to have some fun interruptions, or you end up regretting it.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:21:49 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip now the only issue
is still having enough time to get the work done, but honestly I dont care anymore
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:26:58 seo good for you!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:27:29 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip maybe!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:27:58 seo it's nice how after some moments of
despair, when you (or me, that is) manage to have a bit of family fun, all the work
problems that were so overwhelming seem to fade and one just doesn't care that much
anymore
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:28:25 seo sadly, the day to day stuff manages
to get back into our heads
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:30:40 seo time to go to the dentist!
seo-AFK
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:30:49 seo-AFK ttyl
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:32:06 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip later
nickname to seo
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:33:58 seo saved by the bell!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:34:11 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip what?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:34:22 seo the dentist called the minute I was
putting on my jacket
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:34:38 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip no appointment...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:34:40 seo her compressor broke, changed it,
but it's still not working properly
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:34:49 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip ah
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:36:02 seo so I'm free to keep working
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:36:07 seo I wonder if I was saved or
condemned by the bell
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 09:36:28 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip hehe
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:22:32 seth-Zzzz hi all
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:22:35 seth-Zzzz I better get to work!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:22:38 seth-Zzzz See you in a few
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:26:42 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip seth-Zzzz quit
(timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:29:14 clearclaw [color=#008080] . [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:33:45 doho123 ..
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:37:24 seo :
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:45:14 clearclaw [color=#008080] ! [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:48:25 seo ¡
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:48:35 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip I
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:54:06 seo |
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:54:34 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip |!i|
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:54:48 doho123 that's neither geeky nor hip
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 10:55:11 seo a bit geeky, IMHO
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 11:30:49 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip :( :( :( :( :( :
( :( :( take that scott!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 11:31:33 seo oh-oh...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 11:31:45 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip :P and that too!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 11:32:41 Seth hi
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 11:34:52 Seth ..
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 11:35:02 seo not again, please!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 11:35:37 Seth 'morning Seo
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 11:35:39 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip !
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 11:35:44 Seth or afternoon as the case must be
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 11:36:08 seo indeed
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 11:56:54 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip interesting thread
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 11:58:29 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip i take it the
games is bases on an entire map of the US?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 11:58:38 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip ugh game is based*
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:06:53 Seth Tim made a game out of Ticket to
Ride components
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:07:03 Seth I think he talked about it at BGDF
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:10:09 Seth I'm having trouble finding it
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:10:19 Seth search function at BGDF is not
appearing to work
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:10:31 Seth also I can't seem to find a user
page for gamesonthebrain
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:12:43 Seth man, the Stone Age board is really
gorgeous
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:12:46 Seth I like that art
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:12:57 Seth Cuba and PotE - same guy
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:14:32 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip ugh how did the
search get broken.... again!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:14:52 Seth I dunno
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:14:53 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip I need to quickly
finish BGDF 3.0 so it is cleaner/simplier to use
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:15:58 Seth there
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:16:10 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip seems like DB is
screwed up
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:16:24 Seth and I didn't have to search at
BGDF, I went to tim's user page, and under Conrtibutions you can see everything
that user has posted
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:16:29 Seth very useful feature!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:17:53 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip yepp but that is
what you get when you have a *full time* person working on a site
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:18:06 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip or at least one
full time, if I recall correctly
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:18:15 Seth Darke should get Aldie to buy BGDF
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:18:41 Seth then Darke gets money, and bgdf
gets full time people working on it! Win - win!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:18:56 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip nah... we just
have to figure out a plan. either all move to BGG and invade the designer forums or
actually make a useful system
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:21:35 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip ah well... guess
life is just getting too busy for the majority of us. might be good for a dramatic
change
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:26:55 MatthewF joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:28:11 MatthewF Hey Seth, got your PM... it
seems that when I tried to reply, it wouldn't send.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:28:28 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip whoa! hello
Matthew!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:28:40 MatthewF I won't be at Phoenix
ConGames this weekend, no. My brother and his family are coming to town from out of
state and I'll be spending the weekend with him.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:28:43 MatthewF Hey there!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:28:45 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip yeah something is
screwed with the site.... no searching no PMing... ugh
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:29:04 MatthewF BGDF 3? I didn't know you had
that in the works.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:29:20 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip yepp slow process
since I am so busy
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:29:32 MatthewF Of course.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:29:54 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip basically I am
considering a cleaner/newer CMS Drupal. And figuring out if it will be nice/clean
enough for people to maintain/admin
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:30:22 MatthewF Did you figure out how
unauthorized folks have managed to modify the wiki? That was weird.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:30:33 MatthewF Ah, great. I've heard lots of
good stuff about Drupal
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:30:40 MatthewF And Joomla
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:30:54 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip yeah Drupal should
be MUCH easier for Darke and others to admin/use
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:31:06 MatthewF Excellent
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:31:15 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip and Drupal
will/should be easier for me to change/improve/integrate new features
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:31:18 Rick is going to politely assume that Z
and MF are speaking English.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:31:25 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip nope never figured
out the issue
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:31:44 MatthewF LOL, hi Rick. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:32:56 MatthewF Glad to hear. I know that the
small changes I made to PHPNuke were a huge hassle, and when I tried to figure out
how to make changes to tiik-wiki I realized I'd have to spend hours just figuring
out how things fit together.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:33:12 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip meeting time...
afk
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:33:26 MatthewF And that I didn't have time
to do so.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:33:51 MatthewF There are sure a lot of
people in the "users box" compared to how many seem to be actually chatting.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:33:55 MatthewF How are things going, Rick?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:34:19 Rick In general, fine. This week: :$:
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:34:40 MatthewF Is that brainstorming or
thunderstorming?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:34:40 Rick My laptop's in the shop. No email,
no access to my game-design tools and files.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:34:59 MatthewF Ack, crap.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:35:23 MatthewF Well, time for mentally
regrouping, perhaps, or getting away from it a bit in order to get a new
perspective.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:35:33 Rick Trying to put Spatial Delivery out
of my mind, since it's now out of my hands, but have nothing to distract me!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:35:44 MatthewF :D
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:35:50 MatthewF It's at a publisher, I take
it?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:35:51 Rick With luck, I'll be back online by
the weekend.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:36:03 MatthewF Or just the lack of laptop?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:36:06 Rick Asmodee is interested, after it won
the KublaCon design contest.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:36:20 Rick But who knows how long it will take
them to make a decision...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:36:20 MatthewF Ah, congrats!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:36:30 MatthewF (you can tell how out of the
loop I am)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:36:33 Rick tq
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:37:11 Rick I have a couple of new designs
(well, one is old but getting new attention) but I can't think without my surrogate
brain. :p
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:37:34 Rick How about you? I've been away from
BGDF for a while, trying to get back into the loop now.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:37:42 Rick I don't know what you've been
doing.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:43:17 Seth Whoa
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:43:22 Seth Hi Matthw! Hi Rick!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:44:13 Rick Hi, Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:44:21 Seth good to see old faces back in
here...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:44:48 Seth MF, what's the current state of
Everest, Elvencraft, velociracers, etc?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:45:58 seo Hi Matthew, Hi Rick
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:47:19 Seth seo stole my line... but he spelled
it right :/
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:48:42 Rick Hi Ariel
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:48:48 MatthewF Sorry, accidentally afk for a
minute
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:49:21 seo Matthew: there was no unauthorized
folk modifying the wiki, it was just one silly authorized user (me) accidentally
deleting one of Dave's posts
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:50:06 MatthewF Sorry, bad net connection.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:50:59 MatthewF Anyway, I do understand about
the surrogate brain, Rick. It's awesome (which includes "scary") how much we think
with out technology.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:51:17 MatthewF Hey Seth, you got my comment
about not making it to Phoenix ConGames?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:51:23 MatthewF Hi Seo: Ok, thanks.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:51:40 MatthewF Elvencraft will be in new
proto form next weekend.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:52:46 seo wow, personalized answers for each
one! LOL
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:52:50 MatthewF I have a publisher interested
in another game of mine, the one based on The Chronicles of Amber books, and now
have (slightly indirect, but should be all I need) access to the Zelazny family.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:53:44 MatthewF So those two are the top of
my radar. I think Everest is dead. VelociRacers, when I get a chance.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:54:23 MatthewF A couple of small math
adjustments and Everest will work great. If only it was fun.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:56:28 Rick You have an Amber game?!? Nobody
tells me [i]anything![/i] What's it like?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:59:04 MatthewF Players are striving against
each other for the throne of Amber. There's a board with Amber in the center,
Shadow in layered circles around it, and Chaos at the outside eges. Players use
military might (though no direct combat, per se, it's not a wargame), duelling
(with swords), and pattern magic (largely via the Trumps) to work to get ahead,
gaining favor and position.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:59:34 MatthewF There's a "secret alliance"
mechanic that allows players to ally with each other without others at the table
knowing about it.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:59:37 Rick Sounds cool!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:59:51 MatthewF Though suspicions arise. :D
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:59:55 Rick I'd like to hear more sometime.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 12:59:59 MatthewF Thanks.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:00:05 Rick But right now, I think it's
lunchtime.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:00:24 MatthewF I'm very excited about the
design, but playtesting will reveal much. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:00:27 Rick My son Chris is on his first day
interning at my place of employment (we do software).
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:00:28 MatthewF Enjoy lunch!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:00:36 Rick afk
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:00:45 clearclaw [color=#008080] Rick: Where
are you at again? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:01:02 MatthewF Bay area, iirc
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:01:25 clearclaw [color=#008080] Yeah, so am
I. Just forget which company. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:01:36 MatthewF Ah
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:03:28 Seth whoa
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:03:32 Seth chat died for me
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:03:34 Seth back now
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:03:45 Seth Yes, I saw you're comment - not at
PhxConGames
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:03:48 Seth I think I won't go
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:04:04 doho123 then I won't go either
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:04:05 MatthewF chat died for me, too
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:04:13 Seth there seems to be no reason - last
year I went, and I played board games with the 3 people that went up with me
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:04:19 doho123 BOYCOT
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:04:26 Seth Heh, were you considering it, Scott
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:04:36 Seth I'd go if Scott were going
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:04:42 MatthewF Big trip to Phoenix? :P
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:04:44 doho123 well, that's besides the
point, actually
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:04:44 Seth I'd prolly go if Matthew were going
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:04:47 MatthewF Me too, screw my brother.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:05:00 Seth Matthew - bring him along!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:05:03 MatthewF (well, ok, probably not, but
still)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:05:13 Seth I'm sure he'd like to see how your
hobby goes!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:05:17 Seth He could play Elvencraft
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:05:37 MatthewF Won't have the new proto done
in time, mostly because I'm preparing for him coming.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:05:47 Seth My friend won the Con Run thing,
and supposedly gets a free entry and hotel room this year
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:05:57 Seth but he said he's had trouble
getting info aboutthat
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:06:07 Seth you have the old proto, right?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:06:31 Seth if he gets a free room (and I can
stay in it) I might go up with him.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:06:55 MatthewF Some of it, not sure where
all the cards are, but that doesn't matter. I've worked out the redesign completely
and have no desire to play the old version.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:07:02 Seth but honestly, what am I going to
do? Play the same games with him that I play 3x/week here in the comfort of my own
home?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:07:23 Seth ah, in that case, will you send me
the old one? I'd like to play it :)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:07:34 MatthewF Right
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:07:40 Seth what's different in the new
version?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:07:55 MatthewF The cards and merchants are
appropriately balanced.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:08:33 Seth Oh sweet! Check out the email I
just got: "You Are Chosen As a Leader For the Mission of God"
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:08:36 MatthewF In the past, some merchants
were way better than others, though it was dependent entirely on how the board
happened to be laid out this time. I knew which the best combos were for a given
layout, but the players couldn't know.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:08:44 MatthewF Congrats!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:09:25 MatthewF Now all merchants are equal
in weight, though there will still be ones you'll want to focus on based on your
cards and how things lay out. Just not hidden.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:10:00 Seth did they appear in different
distributions on the cards?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:10:11 Seth that could be OK, as players will
learn that as they play
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:10:30 Seth for example, in Brass there are
only 3 Ironworks cards and there are lots of Port cards
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:10:48 Seth making Ironworks a bigger deal than
ports
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:10:57 MatthewF I tried several methods to
show how they were connected, but really, it wasn't necessary to the design, so
eliminating the connections eliminated the problem without damaging the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:11:44 Seth but I guess their scores are
weighted appropriately
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:12:24 MatthewF Right, but this couldn't
really work that way. I balanced it out somewhat by varying the points you got for
different items, but those were flawed if the board ended up certain ways. About
60% of the time, in fact.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:12:26 Seth crap, did the chat die again?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:12:31 Seth oh, there it goes
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:16:11 MatthewF Did you get my saying "Right,
but this couldn't really work that way. I balanced it out somewhat by varying the
points you got for different items, but those were flawed if the board ended up
certain ways. About 60% of the time, in fact."?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:18:33 Seth no, I didn't see that
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:18:39 Seth I do now though
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:27:15 MatthewF gonna run, good luck, talk to
you all later
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:29:13 seo Seth: are you starting a game
publishing company with Kate Solomon's money?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:29:38 doho123 ooooh. I want to hear about
this!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:30:22 simpson joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:30:39 simpson hey all
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:30:48 seo Hey
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:31:16 Seth MatthewF quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:31:50 Seth Seo: how do you know about kate
solomon's money?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:32:16 doho123 how much money would it take
to start a game publishing company?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:32:49 clearclaw [color=#008080] How much do
you want to lose? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:33:00 simpson oh snap!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:33:10 doho123 well, aside from that...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:33:12 Seth whoa, Gary
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:33:13 Seth hi
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:33:19 Seth brb, guys - picking up food
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:33:37 Seth say something interesting so I can
read it while I eat!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:33:39 doho123 well, since Seth isn't going
to be around, who wants me to publish my game for them?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:33:52 doho123 I guess he'll miss his chance
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:37:30 seo I guess $7.6 million should be
enough
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:37:49 doho123 well, I figuered that just in
upfront royalties
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:37:54 seo that's how much Kate is willing to
give to Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:38:51 seo "who wants me to publish my game
for them?" <<< you're going into self publishing so I can buy your game?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:39:46 doho123 that would work too, I guess
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:40:06 doho123 I mean, people are paying
upfront costs for limited run pinball machines
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:40:28 seo if you publish it, I will probably
buy it
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:40:58 seo hard to say for sure without
knowing which game and at what price, though
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:42:45 doho123 I'm think that if I were to
go out and start a publishing (which I'm not!) house, the way to do it would be to
make expensive deluxe-styled games.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:43:20 doho123 since it seems like if you
are marketing towards BGG type of players, your average run is going to be out 1000
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:43:30 doho123 whether or not the price is
$20 or $80
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:47:11 seo smart: squeeze the bastards!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:47:24 seo I won't buy your game then :-P
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:47:56 doho123 well, the game would have to
have really nice components to justify the price
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:48:15 doho123 LMN with felt-imprinted cards
and stain backing
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:48:20 doho123 satin
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:48:44 doho123 packaged in a supple
leather bound box.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:48:48 doho123 for $200
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:50:10 seo I see your point, and I think it
makes sense, but would only work for more or less established games
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:50:35 seo but for those games, it certainly
might make a lot of sense
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:50:38 doho123 I don't know. All of teh big
Fntasy Flight games are $80
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:50:48 doho123 and people are willing to pay
for those
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:51:01 doho123 granted some are licensed,
but others aren't
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:51:59 simpson a good portion of Fantasy
Flight game revenue goes towards paying for art and licensing
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:52:29 doho123 how much was the special
Sttlers of Catan 10th anniversary edition box?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:52:53 doho123 looks to be about $300
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:52:58 doho123 that's a bit pricey
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:53:21 Seth is back
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:53:52 doho123 Battlelore is about $45 $50
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:53:52 seo Seth: sent all the info to Kate,
then? ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:54:39 Seth ‹doho123› I'm think that if I were
to go out and start a publishing (which I'm not!) house, the way to do it would be
to make expensive deluxe-styled games. <- and sell them to your 1000 true fans
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:54:56 doho123 well, yeah that's sort of
the point.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:56:25 Rick That [b]Blasphemy[/b] game has
deluxe components, and costs $100 apiece -- I guess that's the market they're going
for.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:56:27 Rick
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:56:38 Seth all well and good, once you get
those 1000 true fans
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:57:22 doho123 I think there's 1000 true
fans on BGG for any good game
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:58:02 Rick But you have to find them and
convince them that they're true fans.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:58:12 Rick I could have had Blasphemy for
free, and I turned it down.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:58:39 doho123 well, that's what going to
conventions are for, I guess
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:59:24 Seth you don't want 1000 true fans of a
[i]game[/i] - you want 1000 true fans of a [i]designer[/i] or a [i]comaplny[/i]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:59:29 doho123 what is the going price for
Agricola?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:59:36 Rick Which reminds me: anybody thinking
of going to Gen Con this year?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 13:59:57 Seth online prolly 40-50
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:00:44 Zzzzz-geeky-seth-hip ugh
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:00:46 Seth Rick: If Helen doesn't want to go
and you want company (and let me uose one of those ickets) than I'll think about it
:)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:01:08 Seth is not sure he's comfortable with
Dave's nick
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:01:29 Seth 's hips are not geeky!
hip changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-geeky
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:02:25 Seth where did that come from, anyway?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:02:27 seo not hip anymore?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:02:53 clearclaw clearclaw changes his/her
nickname to hip-hop-hipster-cool
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:03:05 Rick We can't go -- travel expenses are
way too much. But we do have two full passes we'd like to sell (at a reasonable
discount).
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:03:33 Seth perhaps you should have taken the
game and sold it.... might have made more $$
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:03:38 Seth bummer you can't go
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:03:45 Seth I wish plane tix were cheaper
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:03:53 Seth which reminds me, I have to arrange
for a trip to Seattle
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:03:58 Rick Have you seen the size of that box?
[i]Shipping[/i] costs would be $100!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:04:05 hip-hop-hipster-cool hip-hop-hipster-
cool changes his/her nickname to clearclaw
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:04:07 doho123 one word: MEGABUS
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:04:11 kj speaking of Seattle (hi)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:05:09 kj We just poked into tickets prices
for C/S America. Yeesh.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:06:17 kj Game question for the day - anyone
know of a tile go where you can reserve a few (now empty) tile location by paying a
per-turn penalty to hold its place?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:06:28 kj (new, not few - sorry)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:07:39 clearclaw [color=#008080] Aapep has a
semi-similar pattern. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:08:13 clearclaw [color=#008080] In the early
game each turn places a tile and marks another spot as reserved (nobody can place
there until the reservation is removed) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:08:17 kj thanks. looking....
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:08:57 clearclaw [color=#008080] In the late
game each player moves a tile and marks it as immovable until their next turn, and
moves a reservation to an empty location. Nothing may be done with that location
until the reservation is moved. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:09:37 kj Not surprised someone has thought
of it before. At least it's not a color matching game. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:10:09 kj Sounds like there's not a
reservation penalty - good.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:10:52 kj I don't expect people to do it
often. But it counteracts a too-easy-screwage problem.
pv_90cdea4fe294c8cad6dd88c0ca2ee011_c9dc334564f72de774bad0d4cc62cb70 10/06/2008
14:11:14 kj Hey - if you want to meet up for a game if/when in Seattle
if you have time for that, would be fun.
14:11:27 Seth cool
14:11:38 Seth not sure how long I'll be there - going for a frisbee
tournament
14:11:56 kj when abouts?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:12:37 Seth also, Wealth of Nations has a
'reserve the spot' thing, and in a way doesn't Neuland?
14:12:43 Seth 4th of July
14:13:38 kj Ah - *think* we'll be around. Either e-mail
(brad@blarg.net) or call (206.501.8146) at some point if you want to get together.
14:14:04 Seth ok
14:14:11 kj That's my cell - ok up to 10 pm or so
14:14:34 Seth k
14:14:36 kj If you need any Seattle advice feel free to ask too.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:14:48 Seth dang, nothing on BGG I want to read
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:14:51 kj thanks - will look those up too
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:14:53 Seth wants to play Wealth of Nations
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:15:07 kj wants to play.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:15:16 Seth wants to somehow find that JC's
findings are all incorrect and only true based on groupthink ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:15:31 Seth why am I so argumentative?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:15:40 Seth wants to play Ohana Proa
14:15:59 kj kj quit
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:16:05 Seth I got some bits for OP, glass fish
for example
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:16:12 kj gotta go - see y'all around
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:16:17 Seth but I ran out of Adhesive, and
neither Joann nor Michael's had any\
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:16:19 Seth :(
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:16:21 Zzzzz-geeky should I buy WoN?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:16:22 Seth bye KJ
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:16:22 Seth simpson quit (timeout)
14:16:28 Seth Seth quit
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:16:29 kj thanks for the game tips
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:16:33 Zzzzz-geeky later kj
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:16:42 Seth evidently it's completely broken
with 4 players, though likely just fine with 5
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:16:46 Seth says clearclaw
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:16:50 kj oh zzzz - will try to write up
something on making tiles one of these days.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:17:06 Seth I'm unexcited about the loan
mechanic after our discussion and that thread
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:17:07 clearclaw [color=#008080] I'd remove
the "likely" [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:17:22 Seth have you played some 5p then?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:17:36 Seth So if I do get it, I'll try and
play 5p - shouldn't be an issue
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:17:40 Zzzzz-geeky yeah I would like to play it
so I can compare my feelings/thoughts to those we discussed
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:17:41 clearclaw [color=#008080] It is cearly
going to be better with 5. It don't know how much better. I suspect only
moderately. I've not yet played with 5. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:17:50 Seth I've felt constrained trying to get
"just" 4 players for Brass
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:17:59 Zzzzz-geeky and I am interested in the
hex concepts
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:18:17 Seth Dave, buy it, play it (or find you
don't have time), then send it to me :
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:18:20 Zzzzz-geeky kj - ok, let me know when you
have it ready and I will try to take it and put it right into a page for you
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:19:10 Zzzzz-geeky seth : ok I will buy you a
copy... but you have to promise to play it 100 times 50 - 4 player games and 50 - 5
player games
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:19:14 Seth You know what sucks? I don't hate
Power Grid nor Age of Steam as much as I used to
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:19:25 Seth Dave: I can do that
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:19:29 Seth I think
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:19:42 Zzzzz-geeky yeah I need to play Power
Grid... will I be disappointed
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:19:52 Seth actually, that might be tough
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:20:01 Seth people might get sick of it
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:20:03 Zzzzz-geeky time line for 100 games is
365 days
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:20:04 Seth I have played 100 + games of Race
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:20:06 Zzzzz-geeky lol
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:20:13 Seth I have almost played 100 games of
Wizard's Tower
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:20:37 Zzzzz-geeky *full* games?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:20:59 Seth 86 according to BGG
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:21:00 Seth full games
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:21:09 Zzzzz-geeky wow... nice
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:21:17 doho123 kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:21:22 Seth 51 of Terra Prime
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:21:36 Seth and that probably doesn't count
some early playtests before I put it on BGG
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:21:40 Zzzzz-geeky any opinions on buying from
Thought hammer?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:22:03 Seth yeah, they are good, but buy $125+
so you can get free shipping
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:22:56 Seth holy cow, I've played 40 games of
OtU
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:25:13 seo You're making us suffer, Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:25:26 seo you've played LMN more than me!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:25:51 Zzzzz-geeky lol @ seo
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:27:28 Rick I haven't played a game for almost
a week :p
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:29:19 Zzzzz-geeky Rick I let me check but a
couple buddies going to GenCON might not have registered for passes yet. Not sure I
can get ahold of them this week because they are on vacation, but I will let you
know
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:31:04 Rick kaythx
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:35:05 Zzzzz-geeky interesting... Pocket Civ is
listed as a *Hot Game* on BGG.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:35:43 Zzzzz-geeky #4 on the list
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:38:40 Zzzzz-geeky umm does Brass have enough
game components?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:38:52 Seth enough for what?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:38:58 Seth I mean I haven't been missing nay
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:39:01 Seth any
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:39:15 Zzzzz-geeky no the list is HUGE!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:39:19 Zzzzz-geeky whoa $60?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:42:35 Seth and price fixed :(
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:42:49 Zzzzz-geeky i see that
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:42:50 Seth brass has a bunch of tiles and
coins
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:42:53 Seth and a board
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:42:56 Seth and cards
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:43:05 Zzzzz-geeky and $60 because it has a
billion components that cost too much to produce the game!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:43:25 Zzzzz-geeky did you buy it or someone you
know have it to play?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:45:59 Seth I traded for it locally
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:46:25 Seth I got Container and brass and
Medici vs Strozzi for Niagara, il Principe, Andromeda, and Mississippi Queen
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:51:26 Zzzzz-geeky ah
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:52:50 Seth I just told Nando we miss him
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:52:53 Seth maybe he'll come back!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:53:33 Rick Be nice to see Nando again. Dude,
you totally got the better end of that trade!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:54:12 Rick Well, I haven't plyaed IP or
Niagara. But Brass and Container are a pretty good package.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:55:00 clearclaw [color=#008080] I'm very
pleased with Container. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:56:18 Seth I'm happy with the trade
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:56:32 Seth I never played Andromeda since I
traded for it like 3 years ago
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:56:39 Seth so I obv don't care about it
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:56:45 Seth I hated il principe
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:56:52 Seth well, hate is a strong word
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:56:59 Seth I didn't like MQ after a couple
plays
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 14:57:08 Seth and Niagara I bought at 50% off for
trade bait
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:01:22 Seth So Sebastian is sort of out of the
gaming/game design loop
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:02:00 Seth we should all like, email him
andtry to cheer him up so he'll make a new game or finish the OtU:Paris/NY/Japan
ones.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:02:11 Seth or whatever he was working on
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:03:31 seo why is he out? too much other stuff
in his life? just got bored of games/game design?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:04:37 seo he decided to quit game design or
just has neglected it?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:05:04 Seth I guess he's been worried about
other things
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:05:43 Seth said he'd been depressed, but
didn't say why.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:05:54 Seth I hope he gets out of that dolldrum
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:10:22 Gogolski Being depressed can bequite
serious (in my experience...) I really hope he gets out of it!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:10:48 Seth me too!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:14:14 Zzzzz-geeky agreed...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:27:22 Zzzzz-geeky Zzzzz-geeky changes his/her
nickname to Zzzzz-not-here
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:31:46 Seth Zzzzz-not-here quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:34:24 Gogolski I have half a zuntzu
gamebox... Huza!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:34:38 Gogolski ...working on the rest...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:35:05 Seth so lets see... Brass will probably
last a while longer... I should get Merchants of Amssterdam in the mail before the
week is out, and in about a month Agricola ahouls arrive
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:35:15 Seth maybe I am set on new games for a
while
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:35:20 Seth I also have container to play of
course
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:35:24 Seth and all the old stuff
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:36:59 Seth wants to play Princes of Florence,
Goa, and traders of genoa some more
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:41:39 Rick Traders of Genoa, ick. Can't stand
having to argue with the whole table over my every move.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:42:15 Seth guess it depends who you play with
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:42:25 Seth the idea is to make mutually
beneficial deals
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:43:16 Rick I repeat, ick. We traded ours away
-- there's irony for you!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:44:00 Seth I like the game
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:44:07 Seth didn't at first though
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:44:17 Seth JC might like it - everything is
"fungable"
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:44:19 Seth :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:47:02 clearclaw [color=#008080] I adore ToG
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:47:43 clearclaw [color=#008080] In fact we
make Rick's problem worse -- we sell the whole route in advance rather than step-
by-step. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:48:27 clearclaw [color=#008080] Thus every
turn is a wild brawl of negotiation as (often), not only the start location for the
turn is sold, but what buildings will be visted and to whom each will be sold.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:48:47 Seth yeah, but that's "non binding" - of
course it's basically binding because if you renig then you'll neevr get another
deal all game
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:49:06 clearclaw [color=#008080] Then once the
entire turn-path is agreed-upon the move actually happens and the trade payments
made in automatic fashion. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:49:33 clearclaw [color=#008080] it is all in
the same turn and can be satisfied (effectively) immediately so it is binding.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:49:52 clearclaw [color=#008080] Nothing needs
to bridge turns. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:50:28 Seth according to the rules, it's not
binding until the tower is 1 step away
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:50:46 Seth so some jackass could be part of a
big deal, then 3 actions down the line say "nah, never mind
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:51:00 clearclaw [color=#008080] I don't
recall that specific. I recall it being turn-limited. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 15:51:39 Seth The rule is that deals are binding
when in the building or 1 step away
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:13:01 Seth did the chat drop me again?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:15:13 Seth hey Nando
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:15:24 nando [color=#800000] hey everybody
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:15:28 Seth Look everyone, it's Nand!o!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:15:41 Gogolski Good night
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:16:30 clearclaw [color=#008080] Nando!
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:16:37 Rick Nandooooo!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:16:42 Rick How ya been?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:16:47 nando [color=#800000] :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:16:55 nando [color=#800000] pretty good
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:16:56 Gogolski Nando (or somebody else...),
did you create a zuntzu gamebox?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:17:08 nando [color=#800000] trying to stay busy
with ideas that pay [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:17:25 nando [color=#800000] I've never make a
ZZ box [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:17:46 Rick Me either... Mac dude, here.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:18:00 Rick Can't use NanDeck either. :p
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:18:43 Gogolski OK, nevermind then... I was
wondering what the tags are for cards... I can't seem to find them.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:20:00 Rick afk
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:26:45 nando [color=#800000] looks like
pickpocket would be good for my upcoming camping trip...but it isn't out yet :(
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:28:10 Seth I think the ariplane idea I was
thining on could be a decidedly average area influence game
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:28:14 Seth So who here has made an area cntrol
game?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:28:15 Seth I read the Ming Dynasty rules
yesterday, and it sounded decidedly average
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:28:18 Seth or area influence?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:30:55 Seth nando quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:31:15 Seth damn chat died again
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:33:35 Seth Is the basic mechanic of "Either
add influence, or remove influence to score" a decent basis for a game?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:33:42 Seth I'm thining that's how this game
will work
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:33:54 Seth On your turn you'll either add
influence in an airport
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:34:26 Seth or you'll move a passenger, which
will effectively remove influence in the airports it goes through, but will allow
you to score points.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:34:40 Seth the more efficient you get them
from A to B, the more points you'll score
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:36:12 Seth i think in general there'll be an
aspect where you want to get influence in an area, but not necessarily the 'most'
because after some people use that airport, you'll be "on top" (have the most
influence)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:36:39 Seth thereby, if you wait longer to
deliver your passengers, you'll score a littl emore for them
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:36:56 Seth So I think there needs to be a
reward for earlier moving of passengers...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:37:02 Seth like more money income
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:37:22 Seth which I think can work because I
think you probably ought to have to pay to add influence
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:39:20 seo Oh! Is that really Nando, or just
Seth pretending he's Nando because he misses him? ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:39:53 Seth that's really nando
fakeNando
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:41:22 seo you're like a sorcerer, Seth. Can
you invoke any BGDF member like that? Bring René and Darke back
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:41:42 fakeNando I can only do 1 per day
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:41:46 fakeNando heh
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:42:03 fakeNando I think I'm zeroing in on how
this airplane idea can work
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:42:08 fakeNando all I need now is a board
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:42:14 fakeNando and tickets
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:42:27 fakeNando and rules
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:42:29 fakeNando and bits
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:42:30 fakeNando and etc
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:42:31 fakeNando heh
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:42:41 seo oh, pleeeeeeease, bring someone
else. Call Hpox or OutsideLime
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:42:57 fakeNando I could maybe get hpox
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:43:10 fakeNando next time I see him on gtalk
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:43:36 Hpox joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:43:42 seo Wow!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:44:21 fakeNando ... heh
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:44:25 seo How did you do that?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:44:26 fakeNando is the man
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:44:36 fakeNando fakeNando changes his/her
nickname to Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:44:43 Hpox Hello people
sedjtroll
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:44:53 sedjtroll sedjtroll changes his/her
nickname to sej
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:44:56 sej gah
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:45:01 sej why can't I get a color I like?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:45:07 sej Hi Hpox!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:45:09 seo bring someone else!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:45:10 sej sej changes his/her nickname to
sedj
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:45:17 sedj that will have to do
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:45:38 sedj what's up hpox?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:46:31 seo Sorry, Seth, my damn Safari browser
died and I can't restart the chat session as Hpox right now
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:46:40 sedj ... did the chat die [i]again[/i]?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:46:52 sedj lol
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:46:58 seo no, just my Safari
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:47:08 seo FF is working fine
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:47:23 seo you fell for it, ah?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:47:24 nando [color=#800000] I just saw the Big
Bang micropul retheme... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:47:33 sedj I saw that too
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:47:49 sedj I didn't really, because I think he
spells it hPox
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:47:51 sedj or hpox
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:48:00 sedj maybe I'm wrong, those both look
wrong
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:48:01 seo ah, damn
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:48:13 sedj but he's not on gtalk right now, so
I figured it was you
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:48:15 seo maybe h-pox
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:48:33 sedj dunno
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:48:44 sedj what do you think of the retheme,
Nando?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:49:14 sedj Hpox quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 16:49:22 Zzzzz-home joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:02:42 sedj .
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:04:06 seo the chat is fine, it's us that run
out of ideas
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:04:15 seo ran*
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:05:21 sedj heh
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:06:48 Zzzzz-home i have an idea
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:07:04 sedj yeah?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:07:21 Zzzzz-home why dont we all go find about
$3mil in investment captial so we can all work together design/publishing games
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:07:24 nando [color=#800000] I don't really
understand it, but almost any theme is better than none, IMO [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:08:02 sedj I agree about theme, nando
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:12:16 Zzzzz-home theme : the mummy :P
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:12:17 seo but micropul HAD a theme! (and I
liked the old tiles better)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:12:26 sedj old tiles?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:12:34 sedj what do the "new" tiles look like?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:12:48 seo Dave: I like your idea, but don't
know where to start looking
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:12:48 sedj didn't realize there was more than
just the old tiles
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:12:53 nando [color=#800000] orange and green
"pul"s and blue dots [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:12:58 sedj Dave, I like your idea too
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:13:06 sedj eww
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:13:11 sedj I prefer black/white
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:13:12 seo
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/32996
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:13:21 seo ah, you found them
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:14:31 Zzzzz-home theme : ancient places
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:14:56 sedj ancient places?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:14:59 sedj or palaces
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:15:00 sedj ?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:15:16 Zzzzz-home you pick
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:15:38 Zzzzz-home places might allow a wider
scope
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:16:03 seo placing the ancients
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:18:46 Zzzzz-home theme : catacombs
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:19:01 Zzzzz-home of Rome
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:19:40 sedj I'm writing down notes about this
area control airplane idea
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:19:46 sedj airport I should say
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:19:50 sedj or airline
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:19:59 sedj I suppose there's already a game
called Air Baron?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:20:20 Zzzzz-home
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:20:45 sedj yeah, I see that
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:21:28 seo nice planes
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:22:38 Zzzzz-home Grady wanted me to tell you
guys to get your act together and get published. he also seem to mumble something
about a unpublishable dad... or something like that
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:23:16 seo Air Tycoon?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:23:44 sedj I think the board will look kinda
like this, but with fewer lines:
http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/ExpressJet_Airlines.shtml
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:24:03 Zzzzz-home Air Mogul
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:24:26 nando has played Air Baron
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:24:33 seo I like that board
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:25:55 seo idea: you could use some actual
airline's routes and get them as sponsors
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:26:06 Zzzzz-home which seo? air baron or the
link by seth?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:26:13 sedj
http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/JetBlue.shtml
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:26:38 sedj useful for me...
http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/Southwest_Airlines_PHX.shtml
http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/Southwest_Airlines_LAX.shtml <- I could
piece together a board out of Southwest's lines
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:28:45 Zzzzz-home some of the pictures seem to
make me thing of a game called *The HUB*
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:29:21 Zzzzz-home not sure what *The HUB* would
be, but my mind seem to think about one central location that other other routes
went through... anyways enough side tracking
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:30:14 seo I like the map from Seth's link
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:31:52 seo the ExpressJet one
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:32:43 seo I like the idea of The Hub. Maybe
we should work further on our [s]ripoff[/s] improvement of Seth's game
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:33:25 seo the Air Baron board looks like a
map of the Moon
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:34:20 Zzzzz-home lol good point, I did not
think that when I first looked at the Air baron board
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:35:23 nando [color=#800000] what was the mummy
theme a suggestion for? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:35:52 seo nothing in particular, I think
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:35:57 Zzzzz-home just because we were lacking
themes
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:36:06 seo just Dave making us think
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:36:21 Zzzzz-home so I tossed it out as I
happen to see a promo for the new mummy being made
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:36:31 Zzzzz-home mummy movie*
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:36:47 clearclaw2 Efficient route planning for
things like airlines is a Very hard AI problem.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:38:50 seo that's why Seth's game leaves it
for human players to solve it as part of the game
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:38:54 Zzzzz-home well since the reality that
everyone route when dealing with airlines is suboptimal, any planning should prove
difficult
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:39:06 Zzzzz-home ever*
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:40:13 Zzzzz-home and personally I think
passengers that can successfully travel anywhere with 3 or more transfers should be
awarded a metal!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:40:44 sedj I imagine there will be a 'tech
level' like train size in AoS/RRT
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:40:59 sedj early game airlines will have
limited range
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:41:32 Zzzzz-home and tech level changes
benefit all players?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:41:56 sedj will have to do several small links
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:42:02 sedj rather than 1 bigger link
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:42:20 sedj no I htink each airline will
upgrade their airplanes when they want to afford it
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:42:54 Zzzzz-home Air Nabob ??
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nabob
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:43:07 sedj on your turn you'll either (a) buy
influence in an airport (or 2?), (b) move a passenger, completing a ticket (earning
income and vps but losing influence), or (c) upgrade your planes
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:43:24 sedj sorry, veto on anything called
"nabob"
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:43:32 Zzzzz-home lol
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:43:56 sedj ‹clearclaw2› Efficient route
planning for things like airlines is a Very hard AI problem. ‹seo› that's why
Seth's game leaves it for human players to solve it as part of the game <-
precisely!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:44:16 Zzzzz-home Air Magnate :
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/magnate
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:44:26 sedj maybe (d) get tickets... or maybe
not
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:44:38 sedj maybe each player starts with a set
of tickets, and that's all they get all game
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:45:01 sedj maybe they also start with a little
influence in certain randomly assigned airports
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:45:35 Zzzzz-home ah... I thought it would be
interesting if the planes are *shared* resources. But i think my thoughts/comments
are a bit late in your planning stages
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:46:06 sedj could be
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:46:24 sedj but then I wouldn't want players
paying personal resources to upgrade, rather they would all upgrade automatically
at some point
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:46:31 sedj maybe when X ticket are complete?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:47:00 sedj but I wouldn't want the dynamic of
holding back your action waiting for someone else to trip the trigger so you get a
better ticket
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:47:58 sedj oh, maybe like Louis XIV when you
finish a ticket, you draw another, and it is fromt he same pile... where piles are
differentiated by 'distance'
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:48:09 sedj total distance from origin to
destination
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:48:14 Zzzzz-home Transport Air
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:48:22 sedj "short" "medium" "long"
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:48:24 Zzzzz-home nvm dumb
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:48:29 sedj Air America :)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:48:34 Zzzzz-home :(
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:48:41 sedj then sequal games like Air Europa
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:49:03 sedj Aero Mexico
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:49:15 sedj Air Canadia
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:49:15 Zzzzz-home Aero-plane
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:49:21 Zzzzz-home Aero-plan
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:49:34 sedj Air Plain
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:49:41 sedj Air chocolate
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:49:46 nando [color=#800000] I like Aero-plan
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:49:55 sedj Aero-plan? really?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:49:56 sedj hmm
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:50:01 nando [color=#800000] yeah [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:50:13 sedj so it's an area influence
routeplanning game
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:50:32 sedj or is it? I dunno if the
routeplnning element is enough to define the game
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:50:35 nando [color=#800000] so it's a pun
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:50:37 Zzzzz-home Aero Plan, or Aero-plan
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:50:57 sedj yeah, very punny
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:50:58 sedj :)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:51:16 sedj Pushing tin
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:51:26 nando [color=#800000] Planar Logic :(
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:51:29 sedj which is evidently an air traffic
control term
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:51:33 Zzzzz-home Mile High
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:51:40 sedj Mile high Club!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:52:02 sedj (that's what a pilot puts on the
steering wheel of his plane when he isn't at the wheel
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:52:13 sedj (boo, hiss)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:52:40 clearclaw2 Each player has pink tokens
and blue tockens. If they get two tokens of different colours in the same plan and
the same time without any other player's tokens, then they get bonus points.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:53:05 clearclaw2 If they get two tokens of the
same colours etc and they have the special variant card, they can get points for
tht as well.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:53:05 sedj lol
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:54:34 sedj I think I like people buying their
own better planes
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:54:45 nando [color=#800000] connecting flights
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:54:55 sedj hmm
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:54:58 nando [color=#800000] Airports [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:55:16 sedj maybe you can literally buy planes,
and when you move passengers, you move 1 passenger per plane?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:55:18 sedj meh
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:55:21 sedj I don't like it as much
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:55:28 sedj Airports sounds reasonable
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:55:29 Zzzzz-home Itinerary
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:55:40 clearclaw2 Oh, and the two tokens of
different colours gives them a third token of a random colour which must always
travel with both the others as a triptych
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:55:55 Zzzzz-home nvm already used
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:56:01 clearclaw2 Unless you buy a barn.
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:56:16 sedj JC: You get a VP whenever your Blue
token is alone in a plane with a pink token (any players), and you get an add'l
token for next round if your pinik one is
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:56:51 sedj this reminds me of Hamelin
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:56:54 sedj which si didn't like
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:56:57 nando [color=#800000] blue scores...
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:57:01 sedj and a little of ItSotE
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:57:45 Zzzzz-home VIP Air
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:57:48 Zzzzz-home Air Taco
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:58:00 Zzzzz-home Aero zero
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:58:05 sedj Income boost for a ticket works
liek this
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:58:08 sedj there's a base number
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:58:13 Zzzzz-home gives up the name search
since he is failing!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:58:38 sedj from that you subtract 1 for each
airport which you use (origin, destination, and any space in between)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:58:44 nando [color=#800000] add zombies and
call it scareports [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:59:11 sedj you also subtract 1 for each
'distance' (1/2/3) for time in the air, and you subtract 1 for each cube on top of
yours at each of those airports
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:59:19 sedj heh, Scareports
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:59:37 clearclaw2 Multi-coloured brains. Some
are schizophrenic and when they get together with a Motel-6, a carving knife and a
shower stall...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 17:59:55 Zzzzz-home Scareport could be a good
name for a horror themed game that takes place AT an airport
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:00:07 Zzzzz-home have a airport terminal
layout... etc etc
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:00:53 sedj so for a direct short flight (like
L.A. to Phx) would be X-(1+1+1) assuming you are on top of the stacks (most
influence) in each of the 2 airports and the "distance" between them is 1
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:01:03 sedj so X-3
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:01:13 sedj is the best you would do for that
ticket
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:01:43 sedj so I'd make X = soemthign like 6 so
that the max income boost you can get is 3
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:01:58 nando [color=#800000] seems easier to do
a bonus for stack position [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:02:03 sedj for longer tickets the max would be
higher, because it should be likely you won't get the max
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:02:08 nando [color=#800000] less incidence of
negatives then [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:02:32 sedj well, I'm thinking the stack would
be in s column of boxes, labelled 1/2/3/4
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:02:38 nando [color=#800000] and maybe more
wiggle room for longer routes [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:02:49 sedj so you add up the "cost" of the
flight, and then subrtact the Cost from the Fare
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:03:15 clearclaw2 (plus excess baggage fees)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:03:19 sedj Cost = all the numbers... in the
boxes by your cubes (which then get moved to the bottom of the stack)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:03:28 sedj and in the circles on th eboard
(printed along the routes)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:04:12 Zzzzz-home afk...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:04:42 sedj Note... compare a 2 short (dist=1)
link triop to a single direct (dist=2) trip...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:04:55 sedj Cost of the first is 5, of the
second is 4
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:04:59 sedj min cost I mean
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:05:29 sedj I tink the ticket will likey be
worth some number of VP, and that calculation will be for income boost
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:05:43 sedj so you get the same points no
matter what, but you want to be efficient for money in game
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:05:59 sedj maybe money could be worth some
points too, to reward efficiency?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:06:28 sedj or does that just encourage getting
an income boost then sitting on cards until the last minute?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:06:30 sedj who knows
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:06:38 sedj maybe that would be good
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:14:06 sedj .
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:14:34 sedj what do you think... should tickets
be variable VPs or standard VPs and variable income boost?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:14:52 sedj If variable vps then income would
liekly be tied to VPs like in RRT or AoS
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:15:13 sedj if standard then it would be blike
Brass, where there's an income track which is sperate from VP track
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:15:49 nando [color=#800000] I think if you do
variable VPs, you'll essentially mandate certain routes between destinations
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:16:06 sedj not sure what you mean by that
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:16:06 nando [color=#800000] if you do fixed +
$, you'll likely get more creative routes [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:16:13 sedj oh, to maximize VPs?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:16:19 sedj I think you're right
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:16:33 sedj I like the idea of more creative
routes
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:17:03 nando [color=#800000] because with
variable, you'll run into negatives with no other compensation [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:17:08 sedj i thinkthat might be especially
true nearer the end of the game when you have less use from addl income, and you
don't have to maximize trips for that
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:17:14 sedj you just want to complete tickets
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:17:15 nando [color=#800000] with the other, you
can forgo the $ and still get your points [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:18:15 nando [color=#800000] and if scores are
low enough, you may have problems with the "direct" payoff being much larger than
any other route [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:18:21 sedj yeah, good point
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:19:29 nando [color=#800000] so maybe start with
the version you think is less good and see if it surprises you :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:19:47 nando [color=#800000] then ditch it with
confidence [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:20:05 sedj I'm hoping the influence stack will
make up for that
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:20:34 sedj like the direct route WOULD be
better, but since you're at he bottom of the stack it's not
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:20:52 sedj I wonder if the Destination
shouldn't count...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:21:18 sedj the idea behind the stack is that
it's like a layover, your passenger has to wait until your 'turn' comes up (2
airlines in front of you)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:21:27 sedj so that represents a 2 hour layover
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:21:42 sedj so the destination shouldn't have
to count
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:21:59 sedj and therefor you don't need to
worry about your standing int he stack at the destination
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:22:15 sedj or I could make it count, because
you need to have a gate to land in
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:27:57 sedj whoa, I just answered a wrong
number in spanish
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:28:04 sedj and answered the guy in spanish
without thinking twice about it!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:28:06 sedj :)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:28:35 Gogolski That was seo playing a joke
on you...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:29:10 sedj maybe
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:29:23 sedj I don't know where he got a 520
area code though
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:29:32 nando [color=#800000] gate. that's the
word I was looking for [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:29:38 nando [color=#800000] I think your name
will include that word [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:30:15 sedj Gate C4
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:30:18 sedj heh
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:31:48 Gogolski Anyone wants to fire up my
unfinished zuntzu-gamebox?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:32:04 nando [color=#800000] why? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:32:34 Gogolski Because I'm proud of getting
it done that far...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:33:47 Gogolski I'm off to bed. It's getting
late (2.30 AM)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:33:53 nando [color=#800000] OK, [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:33:55 Gogolski Laters...
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:34:02 nando [color=#800000] my zz install still
works, I'll check it out [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:34:13 Gogolski OK
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:34:28 sedj (mine doesn't :( )
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:34:28 Gogolski I'll mail it
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:34:49 nando [color=#800000] which game is it?
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:35:22 Gogolski It's not uploaded on the site
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:41:16 Gogolski It'll be for later... I'm off
to bed now. Laters peeps!
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:45:17 nando Gogolski quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:53:39 seo bah, I missed Fred
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:54:04 sedj already?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:54:36 seo I didn't say "I miss Fred"
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:54:41 seo I was afk
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:54:49 sedj LOL
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:56:02 seo Anyway, time for dinner. I'll be
around all (or most) of the night
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:57:12 nando [color=#800000] hmm...he didn't
send it [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 18:57:55 nando [color=#800000] I guess I was
supposed to volunteer my email [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:00:06 seo Zzzzz-home quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:00:06 nando Zzzzz-home quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:09:48 sedj I want to go home and write up a
blog post about this airline stuff before I forget
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:10:32 nando [color=#800000] jeff started a blog
called Disney Fairies [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:10:36 nando [color=#800000] heh [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:10:51 sedj I saw the blog post, didn't notice
it was Jeff's
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:11:09 sedj I was just thinking today that I
hadn't heard from him in a while
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:12:12 nando [color=#800000] Disney Fairies
looks like a remake of Smurfs [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:14:17 sedj I'm not familiar
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:14:23 sedj I think he migh be wrong though
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:14:44 sedj if the different talents are really
different and recognizable to kids, then there shouldn't be a problem using them in
a game
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:15:04 sedj it's the water fairie, [i]of
course[/i] it can... swim (or whatever water fairies do)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:15:11 nando [color=#800000] how old are his
kids? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:15:56 nando [color=#800000] and what is your
assessment of Double or Nothing. I know you said it's Diamant without theme, but
your buddy posted a review that says it's better [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:16:42 nando [color=#800000] If I got DoN for
the camping trip, would it do well? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:17:16 sedj it could do well for the camping
trip, yes
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:17:18 nando [color=#800000] I meant that his
description of the fairies sounds like the smurfs. I'm not familiar either.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:17:25 sedj I like Diamant better for the
theme, Ray likes DoN better
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:17:38 sedj i bet it's similar to Smurfs
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:18:04 sedj it's evidently about fairies in
neverland... but that's not unlike Smurfs in um... smurfville or wherever
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:18:10 sedj his kids are young
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:18:12 nando [color=#800000] do you want to sell
me your DoN? :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:18:13 sedj not sure exactly
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:18:18 sedj I want to say one of them is 4
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:18:24 sedj but I dunno if that't he older or
younger one
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:18:35 nando [color=#800000] 4 is extremely
young in game terms [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:18:58 sedj perhaps that's the younger one?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:19:15 sedj sounds like a good universe for a
kids game
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:19:19 sedj natural characters
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:19:19 nando [color=#800000] I thought 8 would
be tolerable depending on the game, but it's really not. playing with an 8yr old is
a challenge regardless [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:19:23 sedj natural setting
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:19:31 sedj I dunno
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:19:34 sedj maybe they're like 6 and 8
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:19:56 sedj in retrospect, they were like
running around and stuff - 6 and 8 or so sounds more realistic
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:20:39 nando [color=#800000] 19:18:12 ‹nando›
do you want to sell me your DoN? :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:21:01 sedj I didn't see that
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:21:03 sedj Sure
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:21:44 nando [color=#800000] hmm. now we're
getting somewhere. combined shipping on two games? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:21:50 sedj sure
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:22:09 nando [color=#800000] I think it's $5 or
less if it's under a pound [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:22:23 sedj I'll find out at the post office I
guess
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:23:00 nando [color=#800000] how much for
DoN? :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:26:46 nando [color=#800000] what's your zip
code? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:27:02 sedj 85719
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:27:13 sedj how about $20 for both?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:27:21 sedj what's your BGG id?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:28:15 nando [color=#800000] priority mail is
$4.80 if it's under a pound [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:28:29 nando [color=#800000] why? :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:28:40 sedj I'm curious what you have
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:29:40 nando [color=#800000]
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/user/rgmnetid/games [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:30:15 nando [color=#800000] holy crap! postage
is cheaper if you print postage online [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:30:28 nando [color=#800000] why didn't I know
this? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:30:35 sedj really?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:30:37 sedj wtf?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:30:40 sedj why?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:31:28 sedj you want to trade Lost Cities?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:31:36 nando [color=#800000] 1.5 lbs is almost
$6 [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:32:17 nando [color=#800000] I guess so.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:32:22 nando [color=#800000] is it listed for
trade? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:32:26 sedj yes
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:32:36 sedj should it not be?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:33:29 nando [color=#800000] when it gets right
down to it, i'm not crazy about getting rid of anything :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:33:40 sedj ok
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:33:45 nando [color=#800000] I don't hate LC, I
just always choose something else [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:34:05 sedj I would like o have it - I got it
once, but gave it to my cousin
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:34:05 nando [color=#800000] and 2p games rarely
happen [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:34:18 sedj 'course I got it /for her/
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:34:29 nando [color=#800000] I should get battle
line; they say you can play LC with it [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:34:41 sedj huh
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:34:56 sedj you can play No Thanks with a deck
of Category 5
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:35:24 sedj I'm going to head home
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:35:28 nando [color=#800000] I have no thanks
already though [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:35:36 nando [color=#800000] I can trade you LC
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:35:54 sedj email me with an offer and an
address (I'll take LC and or money)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:36:57 sedj Like I'd take LC and you pay all
the shipping, that would be ok with me... what do you think?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:37:09 sedj and you get Saboteur and DoN
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:37:17 nando [color=#800000] that sounds like a
screaming deal [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:38:51 sedj well, I gotta run
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:38:52 sedj email me
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:39:01 nando [color=#800000] ok [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:42:53 nando sedj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:53:34 Zzzzz-home I think I am somehow drawn to
the idea of a game that involves Catacombs
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:54:05 nando [color=#800000] cool [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:54:34 Zzzzz-home though I am trying to decide
how... like a exploration area influence
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 19:54:38 Zzzzz-home or what..
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 20:09:03 Zzzzz-home and for some reason I also
like the name *Scareports* and a horror game at a terminal
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 20:09:16 nando [color=#800000] :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 20:09:16 Zzzzz-home Zzzzz-home changes his/her
nickname to Zzzzz-home-afk
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 22:42:21 Zzzzz-home-afk Zzzzz-home-afk changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-sleep?
ch_SpielTalk! 10/06/2008 23:27:50 seo clearclaw2 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 00:04:02 seo Rick quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 00:07:51 Seth Zzz: go with Scareports!hehI'm not
sure how area influence would translate to exploration
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 00:08:02 Seth I played Brass again, 3p. I lost
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 00:08:06 Seth I think 4p is better than 3p
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 00:11:03 Zzzzz-sleep? seo quit (timeout)
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/09/21/business/20060921_AIRMAP2_GRAPHIC.html
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:14:52 Seth close!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:15:34 seo looks good
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:15:53 Seth http://sedjtroll.blogspot.com/
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:15:56 seo could also work for Dave's "The
HUB(s)" ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:16:02 Seth finallyi got it down so maybe I
won't forget!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:17:56 Seth I suppose I could use a fictional
map, and make up routes
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:18:02 Seth like Middle Earth Air...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:18:39 seo Middle Earth Air doesn't sound too
good.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:18:52 Seth I know
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:19:03 Seth how about Coruscant Air
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:19:15 seo I guess Frodo could have just
bought a plane ticket if there were a Middle Earth Airline
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:19:32 Seth that's sort of the joke
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:19:54 seo I know, I was just following it!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:20:06 Seth maybe, after returning from his
travels and thinking it too far to walk, Frodo and company start an airline - ride
on he back sof dragons
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:20:22 seo Coruscant is more suited, I guess,
but I like a ral map
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:20:40 seo real*
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:21:01 Seth me too
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:21:17 seo maybe a World map would work better
for a publisher, I dunno
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:21:27 Seth maybe
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:21:29 Seth could work
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:21:32 seo but this last USA map sounds fine
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:21:36 Seth but I like the numbers relating to
hours
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:21:41 Seth and I like them being 1/2/3
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:21:48 seo sounds = feels = looks
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:22:17 Seth I think I like how early game
planes can only fly like 1 hr at a time
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:22:21 Seth then they have to stop and refuel
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:22:28 Seth later they can go longer
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:22:41 Seth i.e. use the longer "2" routes
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:22:49 seo 1/2/3/4 actually, for some cities
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:23:26 Seth I sort of like the idea that you're
dealt your entire hand of tickets at the beginning
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:23:45 Seth so you have to choose which will be
used for income early, which will be late game for big points...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:23:52 seo I was thinking of publicly
available tickets and players competing to fulfill them
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:24:06 Seth but that might be a little scripted
- there ought to be incentive to do a multi-leg trip sometimes
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:24:12 seo like 5-8 face up on the table at
all times
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:24:26 Seth maybe that would be good
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:24:41 Seth and the changing board means
they'll be worth variable amounts to you
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:24:53 seo but you already have interaction on
the airport influence, so maybe public tickets is not needed
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:24:56 Seth so on your turn, if one is "good
enough" (or you need income) then you take it
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:25:10 Seth and it gets replaced
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:25:15 Seth I like the sound of that
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:25:27 seo and it might lead to some players
being more tactic (probably newbies) and some more strategic
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:25:32 Seth I think I like the sound of that
PLUS tickets in hand
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:25:54 Seth so long term you plan on what's in
your hand - short term you go for the baord
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:26:00 seo so an experienced player will try
to control pretty much the same set of airports on any game, give or take a few
depending on the cards
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:26:33 Seth well, I think like On the
Underground - while all the stations come up - they come up in a different order
all the time
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:26:38 seo but a newbie might go all the time
trying to control the currently required routes
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:26:55 Seth it might be easier to 'stay on top'
of the less popular airports, so maybe that's one strat
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:27:14 seo yes, but in your map, Orlando &
Vegas are evidently hubs
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:27:19 Seth while the Hubs have a lot of use,
so investing in a marker there might be more of a fight
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:27:37 Seth well, I'd have to make a new map,
won't find one with all the exact routes I'd want
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:27:43 seo and you only have 10 connecting
airports for East/West
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:27:59 Seth I figure there should be 3 or 4
major hubs, and a couple minor hubs, and a couple cities that are just sort of the
end of th eline
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:28:23 seo not sure about that
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:28:27 Seth Hubs should be like Chicago, NY,
L.A.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:28:33 Seth Dallas
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:28:47 seo lots of small cities might help
balancing the chances of different play styles
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:29:12 Seth or Major: Dallas, Chicago; Minor:
L.A., NY
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:29:22 Seth and lots of small cities
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:29:37 Seth bot not so many the board is
unwieldy
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:29:55 seo oe idea I like: if you have no
slots in an airport you need, you can buy one from another player (maybe other
players even HAVE to sell you a spot at least sometimes)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:29:58 Seth there would have to be a way to get
across most of the country in like 3 distance 1 links
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:30:15 Seth well, that's sort of in this model
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:30:24 Seth you'd buy into an airoprt
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:30:32 Seth each person would have at most
cube at an airport
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:30:39 Seth and you can buy your way up the
line
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:31:00 Seth maybe you should have to give that
$ to the person you're bumping over?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:31:08 Seth well, that's lame, they could use
it to bump right back
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:31:18 Seth so you prolly pay the bank
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:31:27 Seth this is similar to piling on
Caballeros in El Grande
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:31:39 seo I thought you could have several
slots in an airport, even all the available slots at some point
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:31:51 Seth "you have majority, I'll add 2
guys... now I have majority"
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:31:59 seo but the other players pay you to
use your slots
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:32:00 Seth well, that's another idea
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:32:07 Seth that you can have more than 1 slot
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:32:27 Seth in that idea you'd probably have to
[i]remove[/i] the cube when used (not move it to the bottom
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:32:45 Seth and adding a new cube should cost 2
while bumping up couldcost 1
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:32:48 seo I like the idea that in some way I
can go through a route you control, but I have to pay you
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:33:17 Seth well, in this model I just posted,
you can do that - but you don't pay the player, you just pay extra
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:33:21 seo so control doesn't mean blocking,
but it does mean earning money ot VPs from other players moves
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:33:35 Seth i.e. the passenger has to wait at
the airport for your turn at the gate to come up
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:33:36 seo I know
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:33:55 Seth but maybe earning a vp or something
would be neat
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:34:06 seo I like paying to other players
better; I think it might pose some interesting challenges
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:34:13 Seth maybe in additiopn to the extra
'cost' you also give anyone in line ahead of you a VP?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:34:35 Seth or just the player at the top of
the stack
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:34:42 Seth since it's their 'turn' at the gate
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:34:49 seo "Do I play this ticket, and pay
Seth 2VP, or do I try to gain a spot at Vegas first?"
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:34:59 Seth so 'controlling' an aiport when
it's uysed is worth a VP
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:35:14 seo I think top of the stack is ok
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:35:33 Seth this could go for yourself too -
which means a multi-route ticket, while worse for $, is better for VP
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:35:44 Seth which is a neat dea
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:36:11 Seth though I'm not sure I want the end
of the game to be all "I'll do this 7-route trip to L.A. from Las Vegas"
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:36:15 seo that way, if tickets are public,
you can "steal" a ticket from other player even if you don't have much control of
the route, just to prevent him from scoring more points
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:36:28 Seth maybe there's a max - you can't go
negative (cost can't exceed X)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:36:46 seo that sounds fine
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:37:06 Seth I think the ticket itself might
ought to also be worth VPs just for doing it, though, so you can do it and give
someone else VP and still make out ahgead of them
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:37:20 Seth to make sure people don't avoid
each other's routes like the plague
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:37:27 Seth (learned that from All For One)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:38:43 seo Maybe you have a max on the
tickets, which would be sort of bringing back your in-a-hurry/cheaper passengers
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:38:44 Seth I like VP for the player at the top
of the stack
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:38:46 seo some will pay more and have a lower
connections max., while other would pay less an have a higher max?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:38:58 Seth What do you think about moving to
the bottom of the stack vs removed from the board once used? Considering it
probably will cost 2 to add a cube to a city and 1 to advance it toward the top
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:39:37 seo lemme think for a sec...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:39:38 Seth I think the max connections could
be natural... based on the X value (the amount from which you subtract the cost to
get Income)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:39:58 Seth which would generally be 2 or 3
more than the shortest direct route
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:40:10 Seth maybe more lke 4 more
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:40:43 Seth (i.e. I don't have to say what the
max is - the rule is you can't play a card if the income would be negative)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:40:48 seo sounds ok, simple is usually
better. :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:41:49 seo what about this: once used, you go
to the bottom or wait for next turn to place at the bottom (or pay extra to go
higher) at any airport
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:43:26 seo you still need to pay 2 if you want
to have more cubes, though
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 03:50:34 seo ..
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 04:01:38 Seth I think I'll try first just 1 cube
per player
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 04:01:43 Seth and rotate to the ottom
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 04:01:50 Seth maybe higer price to get in an
airport to beginw with
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 04:02:18 Seth I laid down for 'jsut a sec;' and
suddenly it's been 20 mins!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 04:02:22 Seth I better go to sleep
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 04:02:26 Seth Goodnight
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 04:02:43 seo night
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 08:14:26 seo Hi Scott
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 08:44:17 doho123 oh, hello there
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 08:44:55 doho123 I got my contract ffrom
Cambridge Games Factory in the mail yesterday
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 08:46:47 doho123 This is sort of fun:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=lake%20delton&w=35751968%40N00
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 08:50:42 Zzzzz-yepp-working this is a little
freaky
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 08:52:58 seo at first I thought it was 3D
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 08:53:22 Zzzzz-yepp-working for some reason
EVERYONE loves HDR imaging
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 08:53:29 Zzzzz-yepp-working like the new *fad*
in imaging
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:08:24 seo wait... they ARE 3D renders then?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:08:43 doho123 no they aren't
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:09:16 doho123 it's a bunch of pictures
composited for a "higher dynamic range"
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:09:36 doho123 but when you composite
pictures together with things moving (such as the trees, people) things get a bit
fuzzy
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:09:48 seo ah, I'm reading that now o
wikipedia
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:09:57 seo haven't heard of that before
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:11:12 doho123 you aren't supposed to be
worried about the technology! just the lake that was drained ironically from recent
flooding
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:11:22 seo interesting technique
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:11:36 seo heh, you're right
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:11:54 doho123 There will be many more
pictures uploaded in the days ahead
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:12:08 seo but I've seen footage of a drained
lake before
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:12:51 doho123 That Lake is the
centerpiece of a summer tourist getaway for the Chicago/Milwaukee area
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:12:59 Zzzzz-yepp-working Game Name :
Sognefjord (sound interesting by name alone?)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:13:20 doho123 so, right as the tourist
season starts, the lake disappears.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:14:29 seo for Norsk Kindom?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:14:36 seo Norse*
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:14:40 seo ?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:15:48 Zzzzz-yepp-working In general...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:16:16 Zzzzz-yepp-working not sure what what
specific game ideas/etc, but sometimes I try to take a name and build a game to fit
the name lol
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:19:22 seo sounds interesting for a area
control or exploration game in the fiords
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:20:34 Zzzzz-yepp-working yeah and depending
on the time period you could work in "stave church"' which seemed to be
*everywhere* back in the day
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:22:20 Zzzzz-yepp-working maybe a
route/travel/explore game that starts all players at Bergen and they the goal is to
collect VP on route to Skjolden.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:22:58 Zzzzz-yepp-working basically Bergen
is on the outer most area and Skjolden is one of most inner towns
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:23:30 Zzzzz-yepp-working maybe a goods
supply etc. so you goal is to get goods to the inner more town
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:23:54 Zzzzz-yepp-working most*
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:24:41 Zzzzz-yepp-working anyways time to
really work
changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-workyworky
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:29:33 Zzzzz-workyworky Zzzzz-workyworky changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:38:57 Zzzzz oops I think I commited to playing
a game that I might not be truely interested in playing lol
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:39:05 Zzzzz
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:44:57 Zzzzz not sure I am much of a *war
gamer*, but it might be a fun change of pace
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:45:10 doho123 Crown of Noses!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:45:56 Zzzzz heh
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:52:18 clearclaw [color=#008080] Given your
constrained time the duration may be a bit off [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:57:19 Zzzzz LOL
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:57:43 Zzzzz agreed, but I am actually giving
myself one saturday a month to go play games with a local gaming group
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 09:57:50 Zzzzz so my duration on that day might
work!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 10:08:18 Zzzzz so late in the day and no seth...
interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 10:08:43 doho123 it's tough being a vampire
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 10:08:55 doho123 especially in Arizona
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 10:09:14 Zzzzz true
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 10:32:56 Zzzzz doho123 quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:05:13 kj greetings
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:13:21 Zzzzz hey... well time for me to head to
the drs
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:13:28 Zzzzz later all
Zzzzz-doctors
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:18:09 seo are you sleeping at work?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:18:45 Zzzzz-doctors who?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:19:05 Zzzzz-doctors me? no? I just had to
switch drs so I have to go for my "1st" appointment with the new dr
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:19:57 Zzzzz-doctors my great wonderful, call
his cell phone dr has a wife that must have been offered one amazin job in seattle,
because he closed is practice
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:20:23 Zzzzz-doctors now I have ot deal with
a crappy normal, too many people, talk to ten people to get an appointment
practice!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:20:26 Zzzzz-doctors bleh!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:21:15 Zzzzz-doctors so basically that means
once I go today I wont be going back.... chances are I will result to being treated
at a hospital as a result of neglecting any sickness to the point that i have to go
to the hospital
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:21:29 Zzzzz-doctors later
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:21:40 Zzzzz-doctors oops to early!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:21:41 Zzzzz-doctors :(
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:21:55 Zzzzz-doctors obviously I have to go
to the eye dr too, since I cant read time!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 11:52:22 Seth ‹doho123› especially in Arizona <-
wat's all this about?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:32:28 seo damn chat! died on me twice!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:32:47 seo 0:08:43 ‹doho123› it's tough being
a vampire
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:33:07 seo apparently your chat also died
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:33:14 seo ?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:35:15 Seth I just logged in and ‹doho123›
especially in Arizona was the first thing in the buffer
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:35:33 Seth it dies on me sometimes, F5 revives
it
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:36:30 seo yepp, same happens to me every now
and then
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:36:54 seo Scott was answering to Dave:
10:08:18 ‹Zzzzz› so late in the day and no seth... interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:53:27 Seth Seo: I need to update my blog with
the stuff we talkeda bout last night
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:53:38 Seth like Vp to player on top when
completeing a ticket
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:53:55 Seth I think players need more than 1
actiona turn to really affect things though, maybe 2?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:54:21 seo yeah, 2 seems better
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:54:28 seo 2 or 3 I guess
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:54:54 seo maybe 3 as you might want to let
players change things in mor ethan one airport
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:54:56 Seth 3 might be crazy
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:55:12 seo I'm a bit crazy myself -)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:55:14 Seth I wouldn['t want people to go
"control A, control B, fly so-and-so from A to B"
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:55:18 seo ;-)*
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:55:42 Seth I'm also wondering if people should
have to be on top in the Origin airport
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:55:47 seo oh, but I was thinking 1 action as
buy one step up
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:55:56 seo so moving 2 steps would mean 2
actions
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:56:11 Seth in that case maybe
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:56:16 seo or might want to prepare for a
future move
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:56:22 Seth though I think maybe buy as many
steps as you want in a single airport...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:56:43 seo maybe 3, but no more than one
airport in the current turn played ticket?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:57:09 Seth I was also thinking maybe some
airports you get bumped to the bottom of the stack, other airports you come off the
baord
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:57:10 seo yeah, price should prevent you from
buying too much steps up anyway
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:57:15 Seth but that might be getting too
complicated
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:57:31 seo smaller airports you come off?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:57:42 Seth maybe the first step you buy each
turn in each airport is $1, the second is $2
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:58:11 Seth I was thinking you might come off
at the destination and/or origin, but bump at the stopovers
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:58:29 Seth which means the 'penalty' for using
intermediate airports is lower
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:58:52 Seth you don't have to buy back into the
airport
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:58:55 Zzzzz-doctors Zzzzz-doctors changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-around
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:58:56 seo maybe go to the bottom if there are
free spots, and come off if the spots are all filled?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:59:16 Zzzzz-around I think I need to work
on my new game : Sognefjord
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:59:19 Seth ... I was goign to say "it seems
like you should have to buy back onto the board in some cases at least" but then
that's similar to buying your way back to the top of the stack
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:59:39 Seth you'll be vacating a spot, so there
will always be a free spot
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:59:57 seo I mean more than one :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 12:59:59 Seth is that the Norse themed one?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:00:14 Zzzzz-around seo needs to finish his
work so we can work on The HUB and Scareports together
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:00:21 Seth I kinda like the idea of a rotating
'turn order' at each location
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:00:27 Seth which you can pay to change on your
turn
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:00:41 seo @Zzzzz: agreed
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:00:52 Seth Maybe I'll steal the name The HUB
from you ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:00:54 Zzzzz-around that is an interesting
concept seth
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:00:58 Seth j/k
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:01:13 Zzzzz-around so basically each
location is like a *round*?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:01:18 seo stealing your game name is an
interesting concept?!!! :-P
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:01:19 Seth it's a representation of area
influence, but without the pile of influence markers
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:01:25 Zzzzz-around where order is based on
position
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:01:26 Seth um... no
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:01:35 Zzzzz-around nvm
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:01:42 Seth imagine a column of boxes labeled
1/2/3/4
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:01:46 Zzzzz-around i did not catch up yet
so I an not following correctly yet
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:01:59 Seth whoever has the "most" influence is
in the 1 box
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:02:06 Seth 2nd most is in the 2 box
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:02:14 Zzzzz-around yepp that part I
understand
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:02:18 seo it's like standing in line, once
you're served, you go to the back of the line
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:02:23 Seth on your turn you can buy influence
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:02:26 Zzzzz-around trying to understaht the
*rotating turn order*
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:02:29 Seth seo: exactluy
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:02:55 Seth oh, I just noticed - this is the
same as sometjhing like El Grande where you pile on influence, except that you can
only ever be 1 unit ahead of other players
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:02:59 seo exactluy = exactly.uy ?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:03:00 Zzzzz-around oh it is part of the
*automatic* event. so all locations will *fire off* position one and they do to the
end
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:03:28 Zzzzz-around they go*
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:03:31 Seth when you use a particular airport,
you move your marker down to the bottom (you 'sped" or discard influence)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:03:43 Seth yes like that
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:03:51 Seth but you don't *have* to be in
position 1
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:03:52 Zzzzz-around I was thinking that
somehow each location represented a different *turn order* with respect to players
actually TAKING turns
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:04:08 Seth (if you're not then somoenoe else
is getting points and you're getting less income)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:04:18 Seth not so much with taking turns
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:04:35 Seth not game turns anyway
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:04:51 Seth it's like the airlies taking turns
using the gate at the airline
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:04:59 Zzzzz-around yeah that is why I was
*lost*
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:05:04 Zzzzz-around but all *clear* now
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:05:04 Seth Oh, seo... the big airports could
have *2* gates!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:05:15 Zzzzz-around whoa
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:05:15 Seth that might be cool
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:05:30 Seth or 3 for major hubs, 2 for minor,
and just 1 for little guys
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:06:08 seo ok. I'm going to focus on working
so one day (soon) I can work on Scareport and The HUB with Dave, get them
published, and then help Seth with his airport game
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:06:10 seo ttyl
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:06:12 Zzzzz-around obviously that means you
need a reason for why one of the three is better than the other two, etc or having
multiple is sort of pointless
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:06:20 Zzzzz-around later
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:06:36 Seth no it isn't pointles.. it mans more
than 1 person could be "on top"
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:06:59 Seth How can Scareport and HUB get
priority, they are just names, not games yet!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:07:55 Seth it also means you could buy into
the same airport x2
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:21:13 kj hates slow Settlers players...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:29:10 kj especially those that roll 7 every
turn... :)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:39:05 kj yawns.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:56:29 Zzzzz-around ugh ugh work always
knows how to interrupt my fun day of chatting!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:57:39 Zzzzz-around Seth : Agreed that it
might allow for multiple first positions, but I would assume that some downside or
positive influence must impact the multiple lines
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:58:10 Zzzzz-around if I can be first in one
and you are first in another, why would I want to be 2nd in your line?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:58:29 Zzzzz-around unless your line might
be a *direct flight* line, where mine might be a 1 stop line or some such impact to
me
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 13:59:10 Zzzzz-around so we might compete for
the *best* and when that is not possible, I might decide 1 position in line 2 is
better because it will *get me there sooner* than a flight from line 1, position 3
(jsut for example)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:00:22 Zzzzz-around is this is not the case,
if you had 3 lines, I could see a 3 player game where all players just pick their
*own* line, to continually have the top X positions.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:00:39 Zzzzz-around unless you can only
occupy one position in a line, which might be part of my misunderstanding
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:01:27 Seth you can only occupy 1 position in a
line
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:02:00 Seth in the case you bring up, if you're
'on top' of one line in an airport, why would you want to be 2nd in the same
airport (different gate)?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:02:14 Seth because when you use that airport
you'll pick a gate - robably the one where you're on top
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:02:20 Seth then that marker gets moved to the
bottom
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:02:25 Seth and you're now on the bottom
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:02:30 Seth for that gate
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:02:37 Seth but you're still 2nd in line for
the other gate
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:02:43 Zzzzz-around correct.. with the one
position per, it makes sense
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:02:47 Seth so you can use that airport again
sooner/cheaper than otherwise
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:03:06 Zzzzz-around so basically you would
be juggling your inlfuence in multiple lines to max your possible outcome
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:04:05 Zzzzz-around might add a little
*choice* into those areas. do I influence gate 1, or gate 2, I am 4th in gate two,
and 2nd in gate 1, hmmmm ok do some stuff to better my position in gate 2...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:04:11 Seth that describes the whole game
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:04:24 Seth I'm suggesting that the 'big hubs'
act like multiple airports in the same city
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:04:30 Seth they'll have 2 or 3 'gates' each
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:04:41 Seth which is exactly like having 2 or 3
separate airports in the same city
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:04:46 Seth with 1 gate each
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:04:53 Zzzzz-around yeah... understood now.
i was missing that one vaulable point, one position per line
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:05:41 Seth even if it were more than 1
position per line, I think it might be good at times to be in 2 different lines
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:05:54 Seth but that's neither here nor there,
because I mich prefer the 1 position per line
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:05:57 Seth so nvm
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:06:01 Zzzzz-around agreed...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:06:01 Zzzzz-around kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:06:18 Seth last night Seo and I talked about
getting VPs for being "on top" when someone uses an airport
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:06:21 Zzzzz-around i was just thinking
outloud and wondered how that would impact the game/choices
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:06:36 Seth Which I think is a good idea
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:06:47 Seth it means there's value to a multi-
leg trip
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:06:52 Seth on the one hand, you'll get less
income
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:06:58 Seth on the other hand you might score
more points
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:07:00 Seth ")
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:07:27 Seth Sorta like railroad tycoon there
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:08:14 Zzzzz-around ok... sounds good to me
now ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:09:29 Zzzzz-around and keep in mind my
design brain is not on right at all these days so for the most part my thoughts and
words are more like impulse burst of noise
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:12:54 Seth here, lemme scan what I have for a
board so far...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:23:47 seo "they'll have 2 or 3 'gates' each
which is exactly like having 2 or 3 separate airports in the same city" <<< not
quite, as they don't add an extra leg (from airport A to B)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:24:08 seo (but I should be working)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:26:02 Seth you don't go from one to the next
in the ssame city
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:26:09 Seth get to work, slacker
http://dakotacom.net/~sej/Airports/route%20map.pdf
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:26:36 Seth and what ever you do, don't look at
that!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:26:45 Seth Dave can look, not seo
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:28:51 Zzzzz-around is every location going
to have this 4 column table next to it?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:29:09 Zzzzz-around based on that map you
might want to reduce the number of locations, and just do some MAJOR airport
locations
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:29:16 Seth 1/2/maybe 3 columns
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:29:35 Zzzzz-around limit yourself to like
20 total locations or something like
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:29:37 Seth each column with prolly 5 spaces (1
per player)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:29:59 Zzzzz-around might be a lot of work
to manage position all over a board with too many boxes
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:30:03 Seth there are 21 locations on this
mock-up
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:30:09 Zzzzz-around really
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:30:20 Zzzzz-around it looks like so much
more lol
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:30:26 seo I agree with Dave :-P
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:30:35 Zzzzz-around is that drawn on a
8.5x11 image?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:30:49 Seth the ones with circles around them
are loatoin, with routes coming out
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:30:54 Zzzzz-around maybe it is just the
size issue... so ignore my comment, 20 is fine
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:30:59 Zzzzz-around ah
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:31:00 Zzzzz-around ok
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:31:03 Seth the printed ones which aren't
circled and don't have routes I'm ignoring
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:31:13 Seth and the numbered circles are not
locations, they're routes
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:31:22 Seth that's on 11x17
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:31:37 Seth I just printed it out to sketch and
think
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:32:24 seo I think the main problem is the
routes crossing on top of each other, that meakes it visually confusing
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:32:33 Zzzzz-around yepp.. just asking,
actually looking at it more I think it is ok, the DARK lines I think are what makes
it look too small etc
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:32:44 seo if you can avoid or reduce it
somehow, things would get better
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:33:05 Seth the DARK lines are dark because I
highlighted the 3's in pink (which came out dark) and the 2s in yellow which you
can't really see
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:33:19 Seth I think the routes would be color
coded
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:33:25 Zzzzz-around ph.. so there are more
lines I cant see :(
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:33:42 Seth and prolly like
Circle/triangle/Diamond for 1/2/3 numbers as well
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:33:54 Seth no, the lines you can see, you
can't see that they're highlighted
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:34:12 Seth the DARK ones are dark because they
are regular lines with pink highlighter over them
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:34:14 Zzzzz-around that would make sense...
and like I said the 2nd look made it less confusing...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:34:53 Zzzzz-around are the
columns/lines/boxes going to be a like 5 wodden cubes big?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:35:51 Seth the influence will be 1cm (or
smaller) wooden cubes
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:35:56 Seth or plastic I guess
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:35:59 Zzzzz-around ok
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:35:59 Seth whatever I have handy
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:36:12 Zzzzz-around so what is the chance
that I have one cube per location?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:36:21 Seth as will the score marker and plane
level marker
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:36:29 Seth I think it should be low
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:36:52 Zzzzz-around so what would be the
*norm* on number of locations to deal with influence at a give time?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:36:55 Seth it will cost to get a marker into a
location, and that cost shoul be prohibitively high to make it worth getting
locations everwhere
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:36:57 Zzzzz-around 5? 10?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:37:04 Seth prolly like 10
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:37:21 Zzzzz-around ok... and from those
areas you will attemp tto *complete* tickets correct
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:37:26 Seth I mean over the course of a game I
gues syou'd want to deal with like 12 or so airports
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:37:42 Seth tickets will have an Origin and a
Destination
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:37:45 Zzzzz-around so I will *get* in line,
influence my position, so I complete the ticket
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:38:02 Seth you want to complete them by being
1st at the origin, then choosing to complete the ticket
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:38:14 Seth people get point and you get income
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:38:45 Zzzzz-around so I cannot complete a
ticket, unless I am first
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:38:47 Seth each airport you stop at subtracts
off the income ou get from the ticket, but gives a point to whoever is on top
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:39:06 Seth I think I'm going to make it so you
have to be on top [i]at the origin airport[/i]
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:39:08 Seth not the rest
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:39:30 Seth I.e. you have to "start on your
line"
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:39:46 Zzzzz-around right.. that makes sense
to complete it. but what about having to be first to initiate the travel from the
origin?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:40:03 Zzzzz-around ah... you can be in any
position to start
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:40:13 Zzzzz-around but you get *less*
points based on starting position
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:40:28 Seth um, isnt't hat what I just said?
You have to 'start' on your 'line' - i.e. you have to be on top at the Origin (not
anywhere else)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:40:28 Zzzzz-around income... etc
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:40:43 Zzzzz-around oh ok...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:41:00 Zzzzz-around and *start on your line*
did not imply bring first to me
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:41:02 Seth and say you have a layover in an
airport - this is represented by you being 2nd or 3rd at an intermediate airport
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:41:07 Zzzzz-around being*
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:41:11 Seth this reduces your income for the
ticket
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:41:33 Zzzzz-around yepp so basically you
want to influence those locations to help reduce your loss
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:41:36 Seth 14:39:06 ‹Seth› I think I'm going
to make it so you have to be on top at the origin airport <- how about this line,
did that imply being first? ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:41:51 Seth yes, reduce loss.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:41:55 Zzzzz-around lol
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:42:01 Zzzzz-around I read that the other
way
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:42:11 Zzzzz-around I was thinking your had
to be first at the dest :(
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:42:18 Seth 14:39:08 ‹Seth› not the rest
14:39:30 ‹Seth› I.e. you have to "start on your line"
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:42:22 Zzzzz-around cannot read obviously
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:42:45 Zzzzz-around so will you use the dest
location like the other layover areas?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:43:06 Zzzzz-around so if you choose to
complete the ticket at the dest, you will lose something for NOT being in the 1st
position?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:43:45 Seth I think so, to keep it consistent
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:43:56 Seth though i could see ignoring it
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:44:05 Seth or removing the cube at the
destination
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:44:06 Zzzzz-around makes sense, just
wondering
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:44:09 Seth *shrug
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:44:23 Seth could go any of a number of ways
there
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:45:28 Zzzzz-around understood... just
discussing thoughts. the webs in my brain are so thick!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:56:50 Seth I'm liking the sound of this
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:56:55 Seth overall
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:58:13 Seth could generate random tickest by
using a deck of location cards, where you flip up 2 - 1 for origin, one for dest
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:58:22 Seth but then how do you know how much
income to get?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:58:36 Seth nvm that
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:58:41 Zzzzz-around well it seems viable,
the only other question I have is that besides completing tickers and influence
what else would players *do* in the game from an actions point of view?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 14:59:34 Zzzzz-around or it is really just one
action per turn, actions being : 1) influence, 2) complete ticket
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:01:19 Seth I think you'd prolly do 2 actions
per turn
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:01:41 Seth Actions are adjust influence in an
airport, complete a ticket, or upgrade your planes
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:01:53 Seth you prolly get income, then do your
2 actions
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:02:34 Zzzzz-around oh I forgot about the
plane upgrades, even though you just stated it like 3 hours ago...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:02:57 Seth i think that might be it
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:03:04 Seth I feel likeit's on par with Ticket
to Ride
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:03:07 Zzzzz-around well that makes sense,
because you have to plan your completting of tickets so you dont get screwed by
waiting to long
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:03:36 Seth I think maybe people would have
tickets in hand (secret) as well as some tickets face up.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:03:39 Zzzzz-around so now if seo could just
whip up a nice pretty board, you would be all set!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:03:45 Seth maybe you go until the deck is
exhausted?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:03:54 Seth (all passengers have been serviced)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:04:06 Zzzzz-around make sense
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:04:22 Zzzzz-around but does that limit the
game with respect to the number ot tickets?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:04:52 Seth well, yeah, but so what?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:04:59 Zzzzz-around which of course there
has to be a limit, but you dont want to have a game with the same repetitive 20
tickets
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:05:08 seo I can't draw a nice map for Seth
cause he doesn't want me to look at the damn map! LOL
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:05:10 Seth if it turns out to be a bad game
end trigger than something else woudl be done
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:05:23 Zzzzz-around I would go for a subset,
so you can possibly have different *outcomes*
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:05:30 Seth seo: only because you have work to
do!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:05:33 Zzzzz-around hehe
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:05:46 Zzzzz-around yeah do you work!! and
mine too!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:05:50 Seth Dave there will be different
outcomes no matter what
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:05:57 seo ah, ok then
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:06:31 Seth the tickets will come up in
different orders, and the players will have different influence at different times,
making the baord very different
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:06:40 Zzzzz-around yepp dont worry about my
pointless concern seth
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:06:45 Seth Seo: you can look, I just didn't
want to distract from your work!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:07:01 Zzzzz-around sometimes he needs
breaks
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:07:12 Seth I'll break you...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:07:13 Seth grr
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:07:18 Seth (did that sound menacing?)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:07:59 Zzzzz-around not really but *needs
breaks* does not some right either
yermom
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:08:31 yermom needs breaks
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:08:39 yermom I should have thought of this
years ago!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:08:40 Zzzzz-around I'll breeeaakk Youu...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:08:41 yermom :)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:09:19 Zzzzz-around ok time to go home, eat
and back to work. talk more later all
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:09:37 yermom goes home, eats, and gets
back to work!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:09:44 yermom later Dave
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:10:41 Zzzzz-around ouch
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:10:48 Zzzzz-around Zzzzz-around quit
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:11:52 seo yermom: does the game have a name
already?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:16:35 yermom not really
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:16:42 yermom all I have is "Airports" for
now
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:17:50 yermom I like how a multileg trip
"costs" more (the passenger would pay less), but gets more points
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:18:00 yermom I wonder what VPs actually
represent in the game
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:18:11 yermom Exposure? People using your
airlne?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:18:44 seo Popularity
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:19:05 yermom what does it mean when I get
a VP becaue your passenger had a layover (because I was on top and your marker was
later in line)?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:19:34 yermom the passenger thinks "oh,
maybe I should have gone with THOSE guys"?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:19:57 yermom i.e. my airline looks better
by comparison?/
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:20:55 seo I guess
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:21:38 seo maybe he actualy was transfered to
one of your planes
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:21:53 seo airlines do that, though not that
often
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:23:27 yermom well, that doesn't jive with
the layover description and loss of income
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:23:37 yermom hmm
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:24:10 yermom maybe you could choose to use
the Top player's line or your own - using yours give you the point but less income,
using theirs gives them the point but you get more income?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:24:16 yermom but you have to pay them 1?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:24:26 yermom or their payment is the VP
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:25:03 yermom but I don't think Iike that
too much - too easy to get good income by givig away a couple points at the
beginning
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:25:32 yermom what about you get all the
VPs, and the player on top gets the income?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:25:53 yermom this would change the income
scheme
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:26:14 yermom suppose you get 1 income per
stop, but it goes to the player who 'controls' the gate
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:26:33 yermom and you get some amount of
income for completing the ticket?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:26:39 yermom no, I like the other scheme
better
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:26:41 yermom Hi FL
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:26:59 yermom What's up?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:27:00 MatthewF Hey there
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:27:22 MatthewF The usual. Popcorn ceilings,
mainly. :P
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:27:23 yermom I'm pondering this airplane
idea: http://sedjtroll.blogspot.com/2008/06/airline-game.html
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:27:38 yermom rather, airport... but
whatever
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:29:23 yermom ... there are SIX games on
BGG called Airport
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:29:26 yermom :/
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:30:03 MatthewF :D Popular title
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:30:20 seo don't worry, yours will be called
Unpublished Prototype for a while :-P
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:30:45 yermom lol
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:31:13 yermom will be called Unpublished
Prototype for a while!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:31:18 MatthewF It's kind of funny that you
mention in your description that it's somewhat similar to Ticket To Ride (at least
in simplicity of actions)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:31:21 yermom but you're prolly right
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:31:28 yermom Why funny?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:31:53 MatthewF Because Alan Moon's Airlines
became Union Pacific became Santa Fe Railes became Ticket to Ride
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:33:13 yermom lol
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:33:13 MatthewF Just an interesting
connection
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:35:04 MatthewF Sounds like fun, good look
with it!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:35:08 MatthewF Oh, and hiya, Seo!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:35:24 MatthewF And then goodbye to all. Just
stopped in at the end of my lunch, back to the game mines for me.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:36:32 yermom Matthew: did you go to the
Gathering of Friends?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:36:34 yermom this year
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:36:49 yermom (game mines?)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:37:06 yermom Matthew: What do you do
nowadays?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:37:10 yermom for a job I mean
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:40:10 seo MatthewF quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:40:10 yermom .
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:42:58 yermom maybe you should HAVE to
compete a ticket after each turn
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:43:12 yermom like you make your 2
influence plays, then you MUST complete a ticket
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:43:33 yermom there could be some face up
which replenish, and you could start with like 3 in hand for the game which do not
replenish
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:44:02 yermom What do you think of
[i]that[/i] idea?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:55:07 seo I like it
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:57:35 seo so you try to minimize the paying
to other players, but at the same time leaving available the tickets with your
airports means the other players will probably pay you on their turns
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:58:03 seo so you have to balance getting VPs
now or getting $$ later
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:58:23 yermom yeah, like that
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:58:55 yermom and you have your cards in
hand which presumably will be better for you than your opponents (since they can't
see it and set up for it)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:59:06 yermom so if your options are
terrible, you can use your card in hand
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 15:59:13 yermom but you only get a couple of
those all game
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:00:02 yermom I guess if there are no legal
tickets (nobody is at one of the airports for example) then you can't play that one
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:00:09 yermom er
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:00:18 yermom if you can't play ANY becasue
of that then you just don't
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:01:15 seo I think you should start with some
sort of cube placing before the real turns start
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:02:12 seo maybe one phase where you have 1
action per turn and get some $$ to spend either placing or moving up your cubes
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:02:46 seo then the second phase (the actual
game) starts
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:03:01 seo or maybe at first you just place
cubes, no moving up
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:04:18 yermom I agree about seeding the
baord
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:04:21 yermom not sure how exactly
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:04:24 yermom maybe at random
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:05:08 yermom like each player draws 5
cards and puts a cube in either the Origin or the Destination of each (maybe 1 at a
time)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:05:13 yermom (in turn order)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:05:45 yermom or flip a card, you get one
(orig/det) the nextplayer gets the other
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:05:51 seo yeah, maybe random is quicker and
better
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:06:02 yermom go around twice, so you have
4 cubes in play at the end of setup
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:06:10 seo should be something simple
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:06:11 yermom or three times
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:06:58 yermom OR... flip 3 cards per
player, they get a cube in the Orig AND Dest... and then those cards are removed
from the game (i.e. won't come up)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:07:41 yermom maybe deal 6 cards per
player, then go around 3 times playing cards to place in Orig and Dest (removing
those from the game) and the other three which you keep are your in-hand cards
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:08:00 yermom this means there has to be
like 6x5+X cards in the deck
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:08:22 yermom where X is enough to go
through 1 per player turn for like 12 rounds or however long the game should be
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:08:39 yermom cal it 10
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:08:56 yermom 6x5+10x5=80
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:09:04 yermom need like 80 cards that way
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:09:13 yermom maybe 75
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:10:00 yermom another idea... what do you
think about playing a card from hand to place influence in orig + Dest
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:10:09 yermom eventually that card will
come back in this case
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:10:23 yermom (this would be during the
game, and/r during setup)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:10:54 yermom then you have card management
- do you want to play this card for a ticket, or do you want influence in those
cities?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:11:04 yermom this could nix money
altogether
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:13:12 yermom thoguh I like money
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:19:31 seo I prefer money and tickets just as
tickets
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:21:25 Zzzzz-sleep? seth Matthew did go to
Gathering this year. We IM'd the other day for a while about it. though he did not
bring any games to test, just as a playtester this yar (if I recall correctly)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:26:02 yermom cool
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:26:17 yermom actually I thinik I talked to
him before he went and he said he wasn't bringing anything
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:35:13 Zzzzz-sleep? yeah seems to be slowly
working back into his designs, which is great to see
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:40:24 yermom Mayebt his game should be
about Travel Agents?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:40:51 yermom where Influence is like
getting access to seats on such and such a planeirrespective of what plane it is
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:41:02 yermom in that case, the plane
upgrades shouldn't be bought by players
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:41:07 yermom but happen automatically
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:41:34 yermom like maybe there aren't a ton
of cards, and you play the game in 3 rounds - in the first planes re just level 1,
so they can only do the short hops
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:41:47 yermom in the 2nd round they are
level 2, and can do the 1 or 2 dist hops
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:41:58 yermom and in the final round they
are level 3, and can go anywhere
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:44:42 Zzzzz-sleep? that might be good, or
you can go the other route and have players *use* other players planes for
completing tickets, but that planes owner also gets points
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:45:15 yermom ... I was already doing that
(player on 'top' gets points)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:46:03 Zzzzz-sleep? ok... so the line
represents planes too?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:46:53 yermom line = airline = has planes
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:47:04 yermom therefore the player has to
pay to upgrade planes.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:47:16 yermom new idea: player = travel
agent, not airline
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:47:17 Zzzzz-sleep? which is really
*influence*?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:47:24 yermom travel agent doesn't care
which airline is which
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:47:33 Zzzzz-sleep? i guess I am missing one
part.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:47:36 Zzzzz-sleep? you have a *line*
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:48:00 Zzzzz-sleep? players are in *line*
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:48:08 yermom "influence" = (case1) airline
buys right to use gate
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:48:09 Zzzzz-sleep? players control *planes*
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:48:33 yermom there are no planes, except
in concept
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:48:43 Zzzzz-sleep? these *planes* are what
with respect to the game? just a function of the position in line when calculating
a completed ticket?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:48:50 yermom just like there are no
passengers, just cards that say "people want to go from A to B"
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:49:34 yermom the only "planes" in the game
would be the "plane level" - indicating how far in a single leg the airline can
carry a passenger
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:50:54 Zzzzz-sleep? understood, so basically
once a player *upgrades* a plane, they have in indicated on a player board
somewhere?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:51:07 Zzzzz-sleep? so any/all following
travel is at that plane level
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:54:40 yermom
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:54:55 yermom plane tech level thing in the
uppr right corner
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:56:44 Zzzzz-sleep? so at this point there
might be one of those for *all players* or you might have one per player?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:57:22 Zzzzz-sleep? Zzzzz-sleep? changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-feeding-baby
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:57:48 yermom ...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 16:58:23 yermom if game is about Travel
Agents - then there's just 1 plane level that affects everybody. If game is about
competing airlines, then players will each hae their own plane level
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:03:38 yermom Dave, this pic reminds me of
you a bit, but I only met you the once, so I may be
misremmebering...http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2474941184/tt0829482
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:03:46 yermom is that about what you look
like?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:05:27 yermom that guy is funny
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:06:13 seo not the curly hair, and more
blonde, I think
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:06:23 seo and a bit slimmer
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:06:49 seo but a similar friendly stare
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:07:32 Zzzzz-feeding-baby lol
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:07:34 seo more than a bit slimmer
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:14:36 yermom Hi rick
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:14:41 yermom what's up?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:14:50 yermom any progress on the Sports
Agent game?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:15:01 yermom er, recruiter
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:15:06 Rick No progress on nuthin'. I can't
think without my computer!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:15:20 Rick With a little luck, I could have it
back this weekend.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:15:30 yermom GL then
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:15:39 yermom so how are you online?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:15:48 Rick I did a little prototyping on it a
couple weekends ago. Felt a bit thin, but there may still be a game there.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:15:52 Rick Right now, I'm at work.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:16:06 yermom I'm getting excited abotu
this airline thing
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:16:10 Rick And I am using a "lifeboat laptop"
at home; I just don't have access to all my files and tools.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:16:18 yermom airline... airport... travel
agent... whatever
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:16:24 Rick I just read your latest blog post
about it. Could be cool!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:16:38 yermom the one with the baord pdf?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:16:42 yermom or the prior one?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:16:49 Rick Yes, but I didn't look at the board
image.
pv_5dae780adfcf8e896924f7c179184cb8_db64acb4c8dc74c03d11672bda42ccda 11/06/2008
17:17:10 seo This is Dave:
http://www.gradytome.com/images/grady/grady800600/102_4328.JPG
17:17:42 seo more curly than I thought :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:17:53 Rick Wups, no, you must have just posted
the most recent stuff!
17:18:06 yermom oh yeah!
17:18:09 yermom thx
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:18:18 yermom I did :)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:18:21 Rick I see the board; it's about what I
had envisioned.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:19:23 Rick I'm missing a sense of anything
being "built" during the course of the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:19:49 Rick The routes already exist; are the
players developing anything other than maybe their planes' quality?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:20:12 yermom not really
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:20:19 yermom that's a good point
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:20:30 yermom that might be "missing" and
that would be abd
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:20:31 yermom bad
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:20:49 Rick It's a problem I have with Talent
Scout. I have some ideas on how to fix it... I [i]really[/i] want my computer back!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:21:08 yermom I'm not sure it's a
dealbreaker though
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:21:19 yermom in Hansa you don't do much
different, and that's a good game
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:21:36 Rick Not all games have to provide
building, true. I like games that have it, so I look for it. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:24:03 seo maybe the upgrades are not distance
but routes (color coded)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:24:14 Rick You just gave me an idea for Talent
Scout. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:24:32 seo me?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:25:06 Rick Seo: Seth gave me the idea. Your
comment just got caught in my lag time. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:25:28 Rick Seth: I like the color-coded routes
idea, though I'm not sure how you justify it thematically.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:25:48 Rick Perhaps each player starts from a
different major city, with a different set of starting routes.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:26:09 Rick As players expand their networks,
they'll interact more and more with other players.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:26:17 Rick That might provide a good arc.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:27:10 seo as the game goes on, more ravel
routs are added, as if there were new Airlines adding routes
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:30:38 Zzzzz-feeding-baby the color coded
route idea might be useful to work in based on the *level* of the star. though this
might not fit the game as it currently is, if you had the concept where the scouts
are recruiting different *level* talent, ie Highschool, College and Pro, you could
have the routes coded for travel based on what level of talent they are trying to
reach
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:32:54 Rick Z, you're conflating Seth's game
and mine. :) We're discussing Seth's which is about routing virtual passengers over
existing airline routes.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:33:22 Zzzzz-feeding-baby lol
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:33:24 Zzzzz-feeding-baby oops
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:33:25 Rick I've just been injecting off-the-
wall comments about my game as they occur to me.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:33:43 Zzzzz-feeding-baby so really it is
all your fault :P
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:33:53 Rick I guess Seth and I both like
network-and-route games!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:34:40 Zzzzz-feeding-baby i think the color
coded for seths game could be based on number of *hops* needed to complete the
route
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:34:51 Zzzzz-feeding-baby so for directly
flights maybe those are red
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:34:54 Zzzzz-feeding-baby nvm
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:35:57 yermom so I'm calling it "distance"
but really the color coding (and numbering on routes) is just the required tech
level to use that route
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:36:08 yermom at the beginning, planes
don't have a lot of range
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:36:18 yermom they can only go a small
distance before they have to stop and refuel
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:36:27 yermom so you can only use the "1"
routes
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:36:40 yermom which relates to about an
hour of travel, or 1 unit of distance
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:37:02 yermom one you upgrade to level 2
planes, they can stay in the air longer (hold more fuel, are more fuel efficient,
whatever)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:37:14 yermom so they can use the "2"
routes (as well as the "1" routes)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:37:34 yermom number of hops is irrelevant,
any plane can take as many hops as is necessary
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:37:43 yermom i's the size of the hop
that's limited
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:37:57 yermom of course with level 3 planes
you can go even further
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:38:00 yermom etc
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:38:46 yermom thematicaly maybe a level
plane is a Cesna, a level 2 is a *something* and a level 3 is a Jet
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:38:52 yermom I dunno
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:38:57 yermom pick something thematic
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:39:25 Rick Gooney birds :D
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:45:38 yermom 707/727/747
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:45:41 yermom heh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_707
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:46:01 yermom the 707 was the first to be
commercially successful, and is credited as ushering in the Jet Age
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:47:47 yermom Jet Age could be the name of
a game about aircraft...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:48:05 yermom thoguh this game is now more
about the routeplanning/tickets
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 17:48:14 yermom travel agents seems more
appropriate
17:51:43 yermom yermom quit
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:15:27 Rick I hear the dinner bell. See y'all
another time.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:30:42 clearclaw yermom quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:38:38 Zzzzz-feeding-baby Zzzzz-feeding-baby
changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-wokringlikeseo
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:38:48 Zzzzz-wokringlikeseo Zzzzz-
wokringlikeseo changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-workinglikeseo
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:48:57 seo poor Zzzzz
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:57:45 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo poor Zzzzz? you
mean poor seo! Zzzzz has been slacking so....
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:57:54 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo and I will be
slacking tomorrow too! i am going to a.....
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:57:57 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo GAME NIGHT!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:58:26 seo Congrats!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:58:44 seo Soon we'll be able to start working
on many games together
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:58:55 seo We will develop more games than
Seth!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:59:04 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo yes I finally got
ahold of siskny! and we are going to a local game night that he often attends
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:59:29 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo so not only go I
get to go, I get to meet up with steve for the first time in like a year
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:59:34 seo ah, cool. Say hi from me, ok?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:59:46 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo both of us had
kids this past year.... and both have not done any game stuff
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 18:59:49 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo will do!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:00:24 seo I want to buy his game, but I'm not
sure how many games I can ask Catu to bring me back
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:00:36 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo which game?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:00:43 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo he is not
published yet...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:00:52 seo Genji, maybe Wasabi, maybe Junkyard
Wars...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:01:15 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo from what I can
recall Genji might not be available until sometime in august
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:01:16 seo but his game was scheduled for
early this year, wasn't it?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:01:31 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo who was ?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:01:33 seo I think Dylan said late June
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:01:51 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo yeah I chatted the
other day and it might be August, in time for GenCON!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:02:07 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo believe me I want
to buy it, but it is not available yet
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:03:48 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo my brain is so
fried... ugh I cant think straight
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:04:09 seo are we talking about Dylan's or
Steve's game now?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:06:42 seo it's weird how Scrapyard Wars (not
Junkyard!) appears on BGG as 2007 but is still unpublished
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:06:44 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo ok Dylan's game
Genji is looking like an August release, though it should be this month
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:07:39 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo Steve, or siskny
is not published at all, nor in the process of publishing
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:07:50 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo and Wasabi is
another designer
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:08:09 seo Wasabi is from OutsideLime
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:08:32 seo isn't this Steve's game?:
http://boardgamegeek.com/game/30639
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:09:53 seo Josh told me about Wasabi when he
viseted me here. I think it is a game the family might enjoy which means a game I
would have chances to play
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:10:19 seo Seth: where's yermom? ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:10:33 Seth I just got home
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:10:38 Seth time for frisbee!
sej-disc
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:10:58 seo disc-jockey?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:11:08 seo disc-ontinued?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:11:16 seo dic-e?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:11:25 sej-disc lol
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:11:27 sej-disc see you later
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:11:41 seo bye!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:16:53 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo Scrapyard Wars
News Postponed Until Next Year!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:17:21 seo booo! (though it solves a problem
for me)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:18:25 seo Wasabi says "coming in Spring", so
it should be out any moment
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:18:42 seo same for Genji
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:20:53 seo Pandemis sounds interesting too,
but too complex to be likely to be played at home :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:20:56 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo yepp, but with Zev
being all over the world right now, he might not get to it until later
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:21:01 seo Pandemic*
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:21:12 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo yeah I am
interested in that game for some reason....
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:21:31 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo not sure I could
get people at home to lay it
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:21:46 seo ok, if none of the games I wanted
is available by mid-July, you'll have to finish EPOCH
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:23:36 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo ummm sure thing!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:23:38 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo lol
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:25:21 seo seriously, I want her to bring me
SOME game. I hope it is one from someone I know. Since I'm not likely to play them
more than once a year, at least I can say "this is from a friend of mine"
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:28:17 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo ah...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:28:38 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo well depending on
the cost I will send you any games you might want when they do come out!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:28:53 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo i am sure we can
figure out a plan that would make it *cheap* enough
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:29:56 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo whats you postal
code?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:30:43 seo 11100
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:30:56 seo Montevideo 11100
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:31:52 seo but no need to worry, I have my
sister-in-law in NYC. I can buy whatever I want on the net to her address, and have
them bring it when they come for Christmas
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:32:46 seo the current schedule makes easy to
get 2 games a year, one in July, one in December
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:32:47 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo ah true
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:33:01 seo and I barely PLAY more than that :-
(
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:33:18 seo but thanks for the offer
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:33:48 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo yeah I understand
your schedule... hopefully I can correct mine starting tomorrow!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:34:09 seo you can send me a proto of
Scareport if you want, or better yet, one of the fiords game
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:35:24 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo someday... someday
when I have time again. I really think the fjords game will be fun.
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:35:48 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo I was thinking
trading/route/resource type game that occurs between x towns located throughout the
fjord
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:45:29 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo sup sup
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:47:31 seo beer, I hope
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:49:42 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo oh beer! I need to
go grab a Beamish right now!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 19:50:43 seo go! I'll get some Patricia Dunkel
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:12:36 seo Hi Scott
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:14:56 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo no beer yet, baby
not sleeping well tonight, few more minutes and I will really have the beer!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:16:27 seo wanna see my next work project
after the magazine?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:16:43 seo
http://palaciodurazno.com/vita/v1.2/vestidores.html
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:18:43 seo it's optimized for MSIE so things
don't look perfect on FF
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:18:50 seo but works anyway
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:20:27 seo the small arrows on the bottom
right let you switch from wardrobes to kitchen cupboards and back (just click OK to
discard the current project)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:20:42 seo I'm afraid it's in all Spanish,
though
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:21:44 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo interesting, are
you getting new kitchen cupboards as payment? :P
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:22:16 seo no, I'm getting cash for this
one :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:23:46 seo it was a fun challenge at first,
but now, after 30 months, having to go back to add and fix stuff, it's a pain
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:24:00 seo but not as bad as this magazine
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:25:08 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo i bet...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:25:29 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo but the magazine
is the *big deal* right...
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:25:46 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo so it is hard to
say no, because it offers such much in the long run
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:27:40 seo I dunno, I think this is the last
one I accept
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:28:05 seo too much work I should not do, too
much stress
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:28:48 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo understood
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:28:52 seo and right now I need cash, not
expensive vacations where I spend the little cash I have
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:28:56 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo cheers!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:29:15 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo sips his irish
stout
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:29:27 seo I rather focus on the paying jobs
and the fun stuff
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:29:39 seo wants some beer too
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:29:42 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo agreed I need
money... trying to build the next egg so I can keep the wife home and not working
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:31:01 seo you're supposed to build living
children, leave eggs for the hens
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:31:04 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo lucky for me the
freelance gigs right now are all $$
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:31:25 seo cheers!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:32:02 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo might be doing
some iPhone dev soon, poked around a little with a co-worker for a job. might get
it, not sure what it will involve yet but I like to work on *hot* *geeky* *trendy*
things
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:33:16 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo ah... did you get
your beer/
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:33:34 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo ... nothing like
drinking on the job! another freelance benefit!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:34:30 seo I have it right here
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:34:58 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo me too!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:36:38 seo cheers! then :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:36:45 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo agreed!
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:37:14 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo so is your work
schedule all screwed up? I see you awake at odd hours, based on chat at least
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:38:53 seo totally
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:39:21 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo just checking, I
wish I had that ability... two jobs with one expecting 9-5 does not allow for it
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:39:27 seo I would stay up all night, but the
wife forces me to have some sleep, which is good, but prevents me from catching up
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:41:09 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo understood, the
wife does not like it when I come to bed at 3-4am and get up and 7am... which has
happened a few too many times this year already
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:50:31 seo I have 10 mins to go to bed, and I
need to finish a page, so ttyt
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 20:52:35 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo later
seo-sleeping
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 21:00:18 Zzzzz-workinglikeseo Zzzzz-
workinglikeseo changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-sleep?
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 21:38:57 seo-sleeping seo-sleeping quit
ch_SpielTalk! 11/06/2008 22:01:47 Zzzzz-sleep? ..
12/06/2008 01:19:56 clearclaw [color=#008080] . [/color]
12/06/2008 02:22:37 sej-disc .
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 02:23:04 sej-disc joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 04:22:03 sej-disc sej-disc changes his/her
nickname to sej-sleep
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 07:48:37 sej-sleep Zzzzz-sleep? quit (timeout)
changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-game-night!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 09:47:06 doho123 allo
seo-work-night...
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 09:47:32 seo-work-night... hola
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 09:52:02 Zzzzz-game-night! hey... seo... dont worry
I will be working tonight too, right after some games, maybe it will motivate me to
get some work done so I can continue to go play games
12/06/2008 09:58:48 kj hello?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 09:59:12 kj wow - lag city
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:01:14 seo-work-night... Hi kj. Thanks for the
consolation, Dave :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:01:26 seo-work-night... seo-work-night...
changes his/her nickname to seo
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:02:02 kj hey A - has winter hit down there?
we haven't had much summer yet here - under 15C almost every day.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:02:22 kj uses lag-be-gone - so should you!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:02:57 seo Winter starts officially only by
June 23 or thereabouts, but we've had some really cold days already, yes
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:04:31 Zzzzz-game-night! nice and toasty up here
over the weekend!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:04:42 Zzzzz-game-night! too toasty!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:04:53 kj rain is good for game design work
at least :)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:04:54 Zzzzz-game-night! Zzzzz-game-night!
changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-meeting
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:05:23 seo I miss toasty...
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:05:27 kj preparing prototype #3 of my new
tile game. daughter noticed duplicate pieces. much better eyes than mine. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:16:25 seo tell her it's a tile-matching game
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:16:49 Zzzzz-meeting kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 10:36:55 doho123 sej-sleep quit (timeout)
12/06/2008 10:42:05 clearclaw [color=#008080] http://youtube.com/watch?
v=fQ_9-Qx5Hz4&feature=user Impressive. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:07:50 Seth http://notalwaysright.com/
yermom
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:23:44 yermom So I think the novel concept
in this Airport game is this: It's area control, but you can only have at most 1
more influence than anyone else
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:24:26 yermom Area Influence is nothing
new, building up influence then cashing it in to score is nothing new...
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:25:16 yermom And currently I don't have a
novel concept for getting influence onto the baord (you buy it wherever you want
it)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:25:39 yermom Thoguh I'm still considering
that 'play a car, gain influence in Origina nd Destination' idea
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:25:48 yermom maybe from the display, maybe
from hand.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:28:15 doho123 I'm having a hard time
wrapping my head aorund the airport thingy, myself without pictures
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fQ_9-Qx5Hz4&feature=user Susan Blackmore: Memes and
"temes" Interesting. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:53:30 yermom doho123:
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:53:31 yermom pictures!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:53:52 yermom damn, I forgot...
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:54:05 yermom 11:51:35 * seo joins
SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:54:12 yermom joins Spieltalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:54:35 yermom yermom changes his/her
nickname to Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:56:51 Seth Scott: tell me what you think the
airport thing is like, so I can see what I'm not explaining well
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:58:48 seo I didn't join at 11:51:35, I just
hit F5
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:59:12 seo had fun at freesbe last night?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:59:29 Seth we lost both our games by 1 point :
(
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:59:36 Seth but I think my team is good
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:59:43 Seth we'll do better when it matters
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:59:45 Zzzzz-meeting joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 11:59:53 Seth but we have a couple real newbies
and we need to teach them
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:00:21 Zzzzz-meeting Zzzzz-meeting changes
his/her nickname to yermama...
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:01:21 yermama... so fat... that she wears a
hula-hoop as a braclet!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:01:49 yermama... yermama... changes his/her
nickname to Zzzzz-working
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:02:02 Seth way to stel my joke
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:03:04 Seth (jerk)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:09:41 doho123 I thought the airline game
was something about farrying passengers around
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:09:51 doho123 ferrying
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:09:55 seo don't hit him!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:11:17 Seth well, I've sort of got 2 different
'versions' of he airplane game. One is a more complex RRT/AoS style game about
moving passengers, which is still just a lofty idea that isn't going anywhere atm
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:11:34 Seth the one that's materializing is
more on par with TTR in terms of complexity
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:12:00 Seth and the theme might work better as
Travel Agents than people owning airlines
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:13:21 Seth I was just thinking (while in the
bathroom, where most real thinking gets done) that maybe each turn you play a card
and do one of the following: gain (buy?) influence in the Origin and Destination on
the card OR gain/buy influence in ANY 1 city on the baord, OR complete the ticket
for $/VP
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:15:25 seo sounds ok
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:16:07 Seth and maybe an Income Track (like
brass) is too much - maybe you should just get money?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:16:52 Seth the reason I started with an income
track though is that you spend money to make money, and with the cost structure I
had in mind, you make the same amount that you spend. Which is unexciting unless
it's income
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:18:06 doho123 I'm beginning to hate the
idea of "buying influence"
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:19:05 Seth whyso?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:19:07 doho123 Sort of like how "just make
it an auction and let the player's balance it out" easy way out kind of thing
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:21:35 doho123 in my mind's eye, I guess I
see an airport game where the game someohow increases demand at various airports in
regular intervals, and then player can buy gates, and the players earn money/points
based on some formula of demand versus gates at each airport, or something
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:22:06 Seth well, I'm not sure I follow. I
guess I could make it NOT cost, and just cost an action (i.e. on any given action
you can add influence to *A* city (or 2) and therefore the cost is *not* adding
influence to other cities)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:22:12 doho123 so an "overgated" city with
little demand earns less, versus an undergated city
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:22:31 Seth well, that is [i]roughly[/i]
modeled here...
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:22:34 doho123 it's just the term
"influence"
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:22:50 doho123 let me buy gates, or
planes...something tangible
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:25:26 seo I think the term influence is not a
god fit for Seth's idea
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:25:50 seo he means just that it's your turn
at the gate
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:26:09 doho123 "turn"?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:26:21 doho123 airplanes don't take turns on
the gates! They OWN the gates!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:27:32 seo not always. In many airports
several airlines share the same gates
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:27:51 seo maybe the game mechanics are more
suited for small airports
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:29:19 seo or maybe instead of gates we're
talking about turns to take off
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:29:23 doho123 ok, so in some cases, some
gates are shared.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:30:08 doho123 turns to take off really
don't havev anything to do with "influence" though, unless I guess you are flying
in a country run by a corrupt air traffic controller union
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:30:38 seo maybe that's a better analogy: take
off queue
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:31:22 seo I agree with you: it's not
influence what at stake in this game
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:31:38 doho123 conceptually, the only thing
airlines can "control" at an airport is gates
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:32:44 doho123 in fact, many airline mergers
have happened in the past solely for gates into a market.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:32:47 seo I agree, but I guess there's a
process where the airlines ask for permission to take off
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:33:28 seo and if Airline A asks first, they
probably get a better spot in the queue
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:34:16 doho123 queue spotting A) is
something the airlines don't control and B) doesn't really amtter in
marketshare/succes in business
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:34:37 doho123 "I refuse to fly Arizona Air
because they are always queued last on the runway"
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:35:28 seo heh, you have a point
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:35:47 doho123 it's sort of like making a
train game where your decisions affect the weaather
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:35:51 seo but is this a simulation or just a
game? Can't it be a bit different than real life?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:36:13 doho123 I guess that depends on your
goals.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:36:20 seo there are lots of games where you
control stuff you would not control in real life
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:36:38 doho123 I'm just saying I'm beginning
to hate the catch-all "control influence" in games
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:36:56 seo I get that
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:37:11 doho123 unless it's a natural fit
(like a political game)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:37:48 seo my point was that in Seth's game,
it's not so much influence as turns, no matter how close or not turns are to real
life
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:38:11 seo so I think he should not call them
turns
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:38:39 seo errr... shoudl not call them
influence, I mean!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:43:34 seo ..
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:47:33 doho123 man, I start actually talking
about game design for a little bit, and Seth disappears!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:48:53 seo he's probably looking for a burrito
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:52:49 Seth I was talking to my coworker
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:52:50 Seth sorry!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:52:56 Seth i'm gald to see game design talk!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:53:03 doho123 Mr. Burrito!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:53:31 Seth Check it out: I'm calling it
influence because that's how it acts, but yes - you're basically buying access to
gates
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:53:49 doho123 then why not call it "gates"
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:55:48 Seth Fine, for you I'll start calling it
'position in queue" or something
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:56:06 doho123 "position in queue!!!!!" we
already covered that!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:56:20 Seth I'm thinking the best fit atm is
travel agents buying access on flights, which are scheduled/queued
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:56:37 Seth i.e. there IS a queue or order in
which planes take off from a gate
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:56:45 doho123 that's probably better
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:56:59 doho123 right, but you don't influece
that order
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:57:06 Seth and in this game you're basically
'buying position in queue' - so thematically maybe the best fit is rtavel agents
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:57:17 doho123 again, unless the air traffic
controller union is corrupt
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:57:25 Seth though I could also see airlines
buying position in queue at the gate
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:57:35 Seth bigger airports can have 2 or 3
gates
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:57:57 Seth air traffic control? they aren't in
charge of the schedule!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:58:13 Seth someone has to schedule who gets to
use which gate when
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:58:14 doho123 sounds like what you REALLY
want to make is "TICKET BROKER" the game
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:58:42 Seth and for this game I don't care who
that is
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:58:42 Seth I'm assuming you can buy it
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:59:34 Seth so yes, for this game maybe trave
Agent is better
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:59:36 Seth you buy a spot on a plane which is
in the queue, and you can maybe buy a better spot
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 12:59:37 doho123 in Chicago, every single damn
airplane takes off between 8 and 10 AM. then they all wait on the runaway
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:00:05 doho123 there's noone telling them
telling them to influence when they can take off, aside from ATC clearing them for
take off
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:01:11 Seth someone had to schedule that
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:01:17 Seth obv not the piot!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:01:21 Seth *pilot
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:01:53 doho123 this is a big thing going on
right now, actually.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:02:01 Seth also, I'm not really modelling a
particular lineup of pplanes at one time slot
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:02:08 Seth rather by "queue" I mean "schedule"
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:02:10 clearclaw [color=#008080] Some players
define their entire view of the game based on what their role or identity in the
game is. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:02:12 doho123 The Feds control how many
flights can take off in a certain hour at which airport
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:02:18 clearclaw [color=#008080] They must
have a coherent role. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:02:18 Seth say 1 plane leaves at 8, one at 9,
one at 10
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:02:40 Seth So Scott: my Queue comment i think
is misleading
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:02:46 Seth more like Schedule Slot
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:02:54 doho123 most likely
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:03:03 Seth and of course any given ticket
represents not 1 plane perse, but a shedule
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:03:10 Seth scheduled flight (daily perhaps)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:03:38 clearclaw [color=#008080] A large
problem with airports that forces the take-off timings are wing-tip vorticies.
They are easily strong enough to flip a plan and smal it to the ground. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:03:51 Seth lets say that if you're "third in
line" on the board, that doesn't mean your literally the third plane to take off at
any given time, that means you have the gate for the third time slot
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:04:02 clearclaw [color=#008080] So they wait
between takeoffs and landings for the turbulence to die down before the next plane
arrives. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:04:12 doho123 but I own that gate!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:04:59 Seth In this game, you don't own a gate,
you rent a time slot to use the gate
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:05:32 Seth or, your a travel agent who's
buying a seat on a plane that's leaving at a particular (relative) time from
whatever gate
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:06:24 Seth thus, if you are using an
intermediate airport (not a direct flight from origin to Destination) and you are
not "on top" at the intermediate airport, then the "passengers experience a
layover" waiting for the scheduled flight to come up
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:06:32 Seth for this they will pay less for
tickets
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:06:57 Seth I think of it like this - if you're
cube is "on top" then it's a stop, if it's not then there's a layover
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:07:10 Seth stops are "bad" (pay less), but
layoversa re worse
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:07:24 Seth obv best income comes from a direct
flight
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:07:34 Seth (people pay more for direct
flights)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:07:51 Seth modeled here by less "Cost" being
subtracted off the "Value" of the ticket
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:08:38 Seth as for the scheduled slots thing -
game mechanic wise you pay moeny to put your cube in the queue, and you pay more
money to advance it - literally an area control mechanic. Whoever's put the most
money into that airport is on top.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:08:55 Seth the potentially cool thing is that
this way, you can only be ahead of everyone by 1
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:08:59 Seth *anyone
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:09:09 Seth *the next player
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:09:19 Seth know what I mean?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:09:43 doho123 in Seth's world, everyone
gets ahead by bribing everyone
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:09:59 Seth I don't know if that's limited to
"my world"
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:10:14 Seth if it makes you feel better, don't
think of it as money, but as time/effort
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:10:17 Seth et
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:10:17 Seth c
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:13:32 doho123 I guess I need to see
something to better visualize things. It just doesn't feel like the way airlines
runs things, and hence the disconnect.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:14:07 seo if Seth bribes me enough, I would
buy his airport game when it's published
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:14:35 seo unles Scott bribes me more for NOT
buying it
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:15:19 seo evidently, Scott has the upper
hand, as Seth has to add the cost of buying the game in the bribe
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:16:04 seo JC will try to convince me to
either buy or not buy the game, but I doubt he will be willing to bribe me :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:17:43 Seth Scott: I'm not understanding what
you're not getting
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:18:11 Seth what a player does on their turn?
How "tickets" are scored? Or just how it relates to airports?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:18:18 seo Seth: you should retheme your game
to something about corruption and bribery. Then Scott would love your game.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:19:17 seo Just call it Air Travel Corruption
http://www.boardgamenews.com/index.php/boardgamenews/comments/convention_report_uk_
games_expo_2008_confucius_games_for_spiel_08/ this [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:20:07 clearclaw [color=#008080] Confucius
sounds brilliant and right up my alley [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:23:46 Seth heh, gifts
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:24:28 Seth this is why JC likes it: "turns
niceness into a weapon"
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:27:15 Seth note that doing the same action
twice (or a combined set of linked actions) costs 1+2 action cubes, not 1+1 ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:27:44 seo this is why Scott doesn't like it:
"The three ministries are filled with officials turn by turn that each have a bribe
cost on them. "
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:27:55 clearclaw [color=#008080] The nicety
weapon was certainly attractive. The concept of pre-booking compelled actions is
another [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:28:34 clearclaw [color=#008080] Bribes are
good. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:28:43 doho123 The thing that I
think/thought you are trying to simulate doesn't match with what you are/I think
you are doing.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:29:17 doho123 and I'm am getting
discombobulated over this
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:30:24 Seth what is it you think I'm doing?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:30:39 Seth it's changed a bit from the
original idea
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:31:14 Seth which means down the road there
might still be a more AoS style airline game int he works
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:31:14 doho123 well, I'm not sure at this
point.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:31:38 Seth The current state of this "travel
Agent" game is fairly simple... there are a bunch of airports, each with 1 (or
more) "gates"
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:32:08 Seth a "gate" is a column of spaces in
which players place their colored cubes and represent a schedule of who gets to use
a gate when
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:32:14 seo discombobulated?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:33:20 seo nm, I found it
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:33:32 doho123 ok, I understand that, I just
have never seen an airport work in a way where airlines effectively race or bribe
airports to "go first" at a particular gate.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:33:56 doho123 usually an airline owns a
gate, and then they will rent it out, if they wish, to smaller airlines.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:34:09 Seth well, for one thing, don't think of
it as airlines doing it
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:34:21 Seth but as a side note, who does the
scheduleing and how do they do it/
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:34:51 Seth well, what if an airport had only 1
gate (small airport, back in the day) and several airlines wanted to use it?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:35:22 doho123 whoever paid the most got the
rights to it, i suppose
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:35:29 Seth Hmm... Seo, remember when I talked
about 3 phases? In each the plane tech level increases?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:35:45 doho123 here's an example
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:35:46 Seth I think the 'bigger' airports could
get additional gates during phase 2/3
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:36:08 Seth 13:35:22 ‹doho123› whoever paid the
most got the rights to it, i suppose <- this is the thing I was thinking about
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:36:18 doho123 There used to be a small
airline "reno Air" that had a bunch of gates at Reno/Tahoe. They had nice direct
service between Chicago and Reno.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:36:50 doho123 < right, but there's not any
concept of "going first" at a gate. you own it or you didn't>
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:37:20 Seth Maybe players are all small
airlines renting access to gates owned by ATA or Souwest or American
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:37:28 doho123 American Airllines wanted to
start service to Reno. So they didn't "bid up" to use their gates, they bought out
Reno Air outright to gain control of those gates.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:37:31 Seth does that help?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:37:46 Seth American is a big airline
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:37:46 seo I remember
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:37:54 Seth so yeah, that makes sense
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:38:22 doho123 and now, American Airlines
just keeps cutting flights to Reno since it's not a big money maker, so they only
have like 7 flights a day now (with 5 gates).
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:38:23 Seth so lets say that the 'big name'
airlines own all these gates, and players control small, newbie airlines
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:38:23 doho123 The End
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:38:48 doho123 but large airlines DON'T rent
out gates, genreally
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:38:55 Seth these newbie airlines need gates,
bit can't afford to buy them or buy out the big name that owns them
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:39:10 Seth 13:33:56 ‹doho123› usually an
airline owns a gate, and then they will rent it out, if they wish, to smaller
airlines.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:39:33 Seth Sounds like with 7 flights a day
and 5 gates, American could afford to rent one out
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:40:03 doho123 yes they could, but they
don't, because they don't want any competition gaining a foothold
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:40:27 Seth I'm not really looking for the
point of view of the airline or the person in charge of scheduling the gates anyway
- mostly the game's about planning the trip
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:41:05 Seth when planning a trip I look at how
many stops and what layovers I'l have and the price of the ticket
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:41:11 Seth do I wnt to pay more for a direct
flight?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE4fvwTBtno automated bicycle parking garage --
there's a game in there. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:42:04 Seth but anyway, I think thematically to
help you grasp the point of th egame, the best idea might be either to assume that
big companies happen to be rentingout their gates
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:42:17 Seth or that players are travel agents
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:42:22 Seth (or both
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:43:31 doho123 ouch. The guy who was
pitching his game with the Alea guy got a notice back.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:43:57 doho123 "The playtesters at Alea give
this game a C on an A thorugh F scale."
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:44:36 doho123 "In one particular game he
mentioned, a player was able to finish in second place while paying more attention
to the lady companion next to him than he was to the game. "
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:45:35 Seth I bet I could come in first while
paying more attention to the lady companion
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:45:49 Seth I can't believe Alea came out to
see it though
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:45:52 doho123 I can sort of understand
that, I think. Maybe the game is TOO balanced in such a way that no matter what
you do, you can get a good score.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:45:55 Seth how can I hook that up for myself?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:46:07 Seth a lot of euros seem that way
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:47:12 doho123 I think what happened is that
to simplify the game, he took out a lot of the special abilities various things
did....
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:47:32 doho123 so everything just gave you
money, VP, or a combination of both.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:47:58 doho123 And so there wasn't so much
of a "build a machine" mentality
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:48:06 Seth I still want to know how to hook up
an Alea rep coming out to see my games
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:48:32 Seth JC: There may be a game in the
bicycle thing, I guess, but I wouldn't want to play it
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:48:42 Seth that's pretty cool though
http://laughingsquid.com/bmw-gina-light-visionary-model-featuring-a-flexible-
exterior/ [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 13:57:41 clearclaw [color=#008080] (otherwise
called dead time during a multi-hour conference call) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:03:07 Darkehorse joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:04:25 Seth what happened to the chats?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:05:03 kj ?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:06:01 kj curses the stock market.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:06:31 kj always has a daily rant.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:07:21 kj Seth - is the tournament you're
going to ultimate?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:08:12 clearclaw Darkehorse quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:08:14 kj know one guy up here into that -
will have to check if he does tournaments
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:09:13 kj do you know where it's being held?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:09:48 Seth redmond
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:10:04 kj ah - probably Marymoor Park?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:10:47 kj yup - see a ref to it
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:11:22 Seth no
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:11:30 kj oh
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:11:51 Seth crap
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:11:58 Seth I can't find tix to Seattle and
back
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:12:00 Seth well, I CAN
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:12:11 Seth but they're at crap times or are
hella expensive
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:12:36 kj bummer - gas prices and all
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:13:06 Seth no there are cheap tix at bad times
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:14:07 kj bad time like middle of the night?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:14:37 kj looks like my friends is on a team
still.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:15:24 kj
http://ffindr.com/es/event/potlatch-2008 I assume
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:16:26 kj Ah - 60 acres park - daughter
played soccer there a while back
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:16:43 kj great ice cream place not too far
from there, but not much else
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:16:55 kj parking is a bitch at times
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:17:41 Seth that's it
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:21:48 Zzzzz-working whoa a in and out darke
siting
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:23:26 Zzzzz-working so has anyone notice any
little speed improvement today on the site?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:23:29 seo ‹Seth› I can't find tix to Seattle
and back <<< the irony for the Airport game designer!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:23:44 Zzzzz-working LOL @ seo
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:24:16 seo it's faster
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:24:28 seo the Last Forumposts list is shorter
or streamlined?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:24:34 seo looks smaller
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:24:51 seo you removed the date/time, right?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:26:10 Zzzzz-working that was always
removed.... remember the hovering thingy
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:26:41 seo yeah, but for some reason it looks
smaller
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:26:54 seo maybe it's just that the last posts
have shorter titles
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:27:01 Zzzzz-working and yes the last forums
posts list is smaller 1/2 the size. that was by accident, but the main issue we
still have is the number of forum posts and populating that list. I need to tweak
the DB call some more to speed it up, but I think I did all I could do
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:27:57 Zzzzz-working just checking because I
took 10 minutes and cleanup up some DB stuff.... OH SETH... I think I fixed search
for you, try it and let me know.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:30:17 Seth after I deal with plane tix (!)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:31:14 seo is not crazy about the GDS
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:31:43 seo which is prbably good, as I have
work to do
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:34:33 Zzzzz-working we can make a joint one!
though I have no idea what the GDS is about yet.. no time to read it!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:35:40 seo joint sounds good, I know I won't
complete one on my own
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:36:23 Zzzzz-working lol what are the chances
that together we would have enough time?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:36:51 seo Iguess -3%
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:36:54 seo :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:37:20 GamesOnTheBrain kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:37:30 Zzzzz-working whoa that high!?!?!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 14:39:01 seo binary? I guess 3 is pretty hight
for binary
pv_723d44fabe934bf244298e993b6106f7_abc5b769925290bf7ab0fdbe088729a7 12/06/2008
15:01:53 Zzzzz-working hey real quick, especially if you want to
attemp a joint GDS entry
15:02:23 seo yes?
15:02:28 Zzzzz-working my thought is a *3 Ring Circus* we can make a
card layout sort of like Genji, but 3 of them. have something occuring in the
middle (or not). etc etc
15:02:51 Zzzzz-working we move something around the outside of each of
the 3 rings, etc etc
15:03:10 Zzzzz-working just my initial reaction, but maybe that is
still to do not sure
15:03:41 seo I'll think about it and let you know what I come up with
15:05:12 seo maybe instead of three circles of cards there are three
piles (one for each circus ring on a board), and you have to play your cards there
15:05:43 Zzzzz-working sure...
15:06:26 Zzzzz-working i will think of both approaches too.... but how
about we agree that there will be 3 of something, to represent the 3 rings. and go
from there?
15:06:28 Zzzzz-working ....
15:06:37 Zzzzz-working hmmm chat is laggy
15:06:44 seo ok
15:06:49 Zzzzz-working ok I have to go.. talk to you more later need
to get more work done
15:06:53 seo I thought it was my connection
15:07:05 seo have fun! ;-)
15:07:19 Zzzzz-working you TOO!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 15:07:27 Zzzzz-working
.a..a..a.a.a.a....a.a...a.aaa..a.a.a..?
15:07:35 Zzzzz-working Zzzzz-working quit
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 15:07:43 Zzzzz-working Zzzzz-working changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-afk
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 15:09:19 Seth just bought plane tix
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 15:09:20 Seth $411 :(
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 15:09:32 Seth plus stuff = almost $450
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 15:09:39 Seth and a rental car for $200 more
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 15:14:44 seo you should go running like Forest
Gump and then rent a bike for $20
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 15:56:20 Seth Zzzzz-afk quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 16:50:42 nando [color=#800000] buying a car for
$200 sounds like a steal [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 16:51:05 nando [color=#800000] where are you going
again? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 16:51:14 nando [color=#800000] I think I know
this...but maybe not... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 16:51:51 seo he's RENTING a car for $200
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 16:52:04 Seth Seattle
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 16:52:32 Seth nando got me... It certainly looks
like I said I was "buying a rental car"
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 16:53:36 seo oic!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 16:54:06 seo maybe you CAN buy what used to be a
rental car for $200
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:00:55 seo you're going for a [yet another]
games con?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:01:34 nando [color=#800000] frisbee tourney
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:01:38 nando [color=#800000] goes every year
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:01:53 nando [color=#800000] doho's latest post
is VERY interesting [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:02:49 seo Multi-Card Extravaganza?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:02:49 seo
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:06:05 Seth which post?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:06:28 Seth using cards like that?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:06:34 Seth or did he post something new?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:06:39 nando [color=#800000] cards [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:06:42 Seth Scott is clever
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:06:56 nando [color=#800000] so he has the
haunted thing, the shipwreck thing, and the fighter thing... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:07:04 nando [color=#800000] he sorta makes me
ill [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:07:30 nando [color=#800000] seth, I think
billings is about the only city available for your dead spot [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:07:47 Seth he was hassling me today because my
airport idea 'didn't make sense' because airports 'don't work that way' (you don't
[i]buy[/i] into them)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:07:58 Seth where is billings?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:08:06 nando [color=#800000] montana [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:08:10 nando [color=#800000] east of idaho
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:08:13 Seth is SLC up in there somewhere?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:08:28 nando [color=#800000] slc is just west of
denver [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:09:05 nando [color=#800000] maybe a little
above that circled 2, left of denver [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:10:11 nando [color=#800000] you could probably
do Sioux City too [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:10:19 nando [color=#800000] it's in one of the
Dakotas? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:10:25 nando [color=#800000] east of montana
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:10:58 nando [color=#800000] oh, hmm. that's
iowa [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:11:04 seo or go international and use Calgary
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:11:21 seo it's close enough
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:11:22 nando [color=#800000] oh. it's sioux
falls I'm thinking of [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:11:52 nando [color=#800000] too close to
minneapolis, though [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:12:00 nando [color=#800000] rapid city is
western s. dakota [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:14:02 seo great falls montana
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:14:18 seo more or less right where the post-
it is
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:15:16 Seth I suppose I don't HAVE to have a
city there
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:15:20 Seth but it seems bare without
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:16:10 Seth could be little "dead end" cities
like "1" or "2" from Minneapolis and 1' or "2" from Seattle. I added Portland, as
you can see
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:16:45 nando [color=#800000] "1. Remove Railroad
Executive cards from the deck. Those [b]cads[/b] are ridiculous..." [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:16:48 nando [color=#800000] heh [/color]
http://www.answers.com/cad?cat=technology&gwp=13 [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:17:36 seo you can use that space for the
reserve and discard piles ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:17:50 nando [color=#800000] great idea, seo
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:17:59 nando [color=#800000] that gets my vote
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:18:17 Seth I could do that
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:18:59 seo you wanted me to do you a nice map,
didn't you? If so, you'll end up with whatever [b]I[/b] choose LOL
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:19:26 Seth I'm missing a link from Vegas to
San Fran
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:19:56 Seth probably a "2"
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:21:28 seo added
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:22:22 seo your map is my break-from-work
quick project now
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:22:27 Seth this could pose a problem...
there's no way to get to or from San fran/Seattle/Portland wihtout level 2 planes
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:22:58 Seth don't break from work too much
though, as much as I want a map, I don't want you getting canned by clients!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:24:08 Seth maybe that's OK, maybe cards for
that area in the "first phase" (if I go that route) will just be used for getting
"influence" in the gates for later rounds
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:24:16 seo not too much, I already have a map
from No Ticket to Ride
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:24:37 Seth that's true, i rememebr that
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:25:30 Seth there's another link missing, which
I added after I scanned that...
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:25:48 Seth a "1" from Kansas City to St Louis
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:36:44 Seth So it's been almost10 weeks since
Jay took Homesteaders to the Gathering. I know it was aplyed there, and I know it
was played at a Maryland Games Day. I also know that Jay's "developers" (though he
doesn't believe in Employees, so I guess they're independant contractors) - Dale Yu
and Valerie Putnam - at least were checking up on the game because they contacted
Steph and asked what she thought of
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:36:47 Seth it
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:36:59 Seth I've sent Jay an email about once
every 5 weeks
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:37:12 Seth and I've heard absolute zero from
him.
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:37:33 Seth for someone who claims to answer
every email he gets, I wonder what that means
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:37:47 seo he lies?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:37:50 seo ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:38:18 seo he answers every email...
eventually
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:38:21 seo ?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:38:31 Seth I'm definitely trying not to pester
and email him all the time, but I think the least he could do is reply to my 1
email
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:38:35 seo you're in his black list?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:38:51 Seth maybe I should change tactics and
email him every other day
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:38:52 seo he's been kidnapped?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:39:13 seo he signed a NDA behind your back?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:39:23 Seth with whom?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:39:31 seo whoever
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:39:35 nando [color=#800000] oooh. nice use of
whom. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:39:41 seo but the NDA prevents hm from
contacting you
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:39:43 Seth thx
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:39:57 nando [color=#800000] I think it means
he's moving forward and wants to keep it under wraps. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:40:06 Seth he also didn't reply when I wrote
him one time asking a question about In the Year of the Dragon
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:40:20 Seth under wraps from me? I gave it to
him!
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:40:22 seo he hates you
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:40:31 Seth I hope it means he's moving forward
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:40:32 nando [color=#800000] but it's not yours
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:40:32 seo or...
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:40:44 seo he is IN LOVE WITH YOU! :-P
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:40:48 Seth according to Alex, I get credit too
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:41:14 Seth he said we could put both our names
on the box
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:41:18 nando [color=#800000] ask alex if he's
heard anything [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:41:18 seo Alex meant you can buy today and
pay tomorrow
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:41:26 nando [color=#800000] if alex hasn't
heard, there's nothing to hear, I'm sure [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:43:01 Seth lol seo
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:46:19 seo .
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:48:26 nando [color=#800000] if you have 4 dice,
each with 3 unique faces... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:48:48 nando [color=#800000] then if you require
2 or more of a particular face to show when you roll all 4... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:48:49 Seth 4d3... ok?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:48:52 Seth what about them?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:49:03 nando [color=#800000] you have a 40%
chance of rolling one of the 3 results [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:49:13 nando [color=#800000] I think that's
neato [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:49:18 Seth is that a statement or a question?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:49:33 nando [color=#800000] no matter what
you're trying to do, you always have "just under 50/50 chances" [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:49:47 Seth so 40% chance at least 2 will
match?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:49:55 nando [color=#800000] yes [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:50:24 seo with 4d3 you have 100% chance of
rolling a pair
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:50:28 nando [color=#800000] wait [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:50:29 seo I think
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:50:32 nando [color=#800000] right [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:50:39 nando [color=#800000] how did I get so
screwed up?? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:50:42 nando [color=#800000] WOW [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:50:48 Seth wow
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:50:51 Seth indeed
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:51:11 Seth maybe you meant 3 of the 4 match?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:51:32 seo happens with impossible object like
3 face polyhedrons
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:51:48 seo ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:51:50 nando [color=#800000] I'm using a prob.
chart for d6es [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:52:20 nando [color=#800000] I'm assuming that
rolling a 5/6 is the same as rolling a value on two faces. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:52:27 nando [color=#800000] clearly, it doesn't
hold up [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:52:28 seo better than using a coin prob.
chart
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:52:57 seo it should hold up
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:53:10 seo 1-2, 3-4, 5-6
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:53:18 seo same as 1, 2, 3
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:53:27 nando [color=#800000] I wonder how many
times I've been bitten by this in more non-obvious situations I've contemplated
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:53:53 nando [color=#800000] if you roll 4 dice,
each with 3 faces, you MUST roll a double every time [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:54:22 nando [color=#800000] but my chart says
that of 4 dice, you have a 41% chance of rolling a 5 or higher (5/6) on two or more
dice, not 100% [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:54:52 seo which is true
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:55:15 nando [color=#800000] right [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:55:15 seo but 5 or higher is like saying a
pair of 3s in a d3
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:55:25 seo not any pair
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:55:40 nando [color=#800000] but I often
shorthand my thinking by saying 4/5/6 = 2 unique faces or 5/6 = 3 unique faces
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:55:58 nando [color=#800000] and I think I've
never questioned it, but it's clearly absolutely not valid [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:56:57 seo 5/6 is = to one of 3 posible 3
unique faces
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:59:20 Seth so you're right in that it'll be
41% that you'll roll a particular pair
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 17:59:23 Seth not "any" pair
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:00:09 nando [color=#800000] oh [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:00:09 Seth hmm...
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:00:18 seo yet, my guts say it should be
33.333....% for any particular pair
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:00:26 Seth to follow in the Ticket to Ride
footsteps, perhaps I should name the airport game this...
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:00:29 Seth Day Tripper
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:01:27 nando [color=#800000] it doesn't approach
33 until you try 3 dice out of 6 [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:01:36 nando [color=#800000] but it's not 33
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:02:03 seo no, right, I see my error
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:02:18 seo it's 33 only if the first three
were different
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:02:55 seo but you can roll just 2 and get
your pair, so the chances for you pair in 4 dice has to be higher than 33%
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:04:32 nando [color=#800000] a 3-face polyhedron
is not impossible, unless I'm not using "polyhedron" correctly [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:05:34 nando [color=#800000] (cat's eye with 3
sides) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:05:46 nando [color=#800000] oh [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:05:51 nando [color=#800000] that won't join at
the points [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:05:59 nando [color=#800000] ok, have it your
way :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:06:15 seo lol
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:06:17 nando [color=#800000] oh, wait. I think
it will. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:07:00 nando [color=#800000] does it necessarily
end up being a sphere, though? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:07:38 nando [color=#800000] it's like a prism,
but with pointed ends. I think it could probably work. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:07:47 seo a sphere is NOT a [b]poly[/b]hedron
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:08:04 nando [color=#800000] right :) hence my
question [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:08:37 seo the simplest polyhedron is a
tetrahedron
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:09:11 seo since the simplest polygon is a
triangle
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:10:05 Seth I concur with seo here
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:10:16 nando [color=#800000] ok [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:10:49 nando [color=#800000] at any rate, I'm
less impressed with the 4d3 thing now [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:11:00 nando [color=#800000] but it could be
cool for me that you're guaranteed one of the results [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:11:16 nando [color=#800000] so you wouldn't
have ANY chance of rolling forever just waiting for something to happen [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:11:44 seo I think I made a mistake, though
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:12:10 seo plural should be plyhedra, right?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:12:35 nando [color=#800000] no idea. and until
this instant, no desire to look it up [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 18:36:51 seo according to Wikipedia both plural
forms are acceptable
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 19:33:03 Seth see you guys later
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 19:34:54 nando [color=#800000] ... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 20:54:40 seo cocadieta quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 21:44:19 Zzzzz-home ..
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 21:45:03 Zzzzz-home Zzzzz-home changes his/her
nickname to Zzzzz-sleep?
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 22:07:33 Darkehorse
http://audio.funagain.com/thedicetower/TDT122-TheDiceTower-Episode122.mp3
ch_SpielTalk! 12/06/2008 22:12:00 clearclaw Darkehorse quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 00:06:58 Zzzzz-sleep? Seth quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 00:52:38 nando [color=#800000] pff [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 02:06:29 Seth *yawn*
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 02:06:48 nando [color=#800000] . [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 02:14:01 nando [color=#800000] firefox 3 comes out
on the 17th [/color]
pv_abc5b769925290bf7ab0fdbe088729a7_c3df021ab1675105fc7236aec9dc426c 13/06/2008
05:21:29 seo I had this idea:
05:22:56 seo A board with the three rings. One deck of cards are types
of shows: clowns, magician, juggler, lions, elephants, etc.
05:23:16 seo This deck als has Ringmaster cards (more on this later)
05:25:26 seo This deck is shuffled and placed face down as a reserve.
One card is dealt face up for each ring, to set the next show to be held on the
ring.
05:27:14 seo Another, larger deck has cards like this: each card has two
or more shows and a value for each, from -3 to +3.
05:27:52 seo These cards are dealt to the players, hands of 5 or so.
05:29:16 seo Players use the cards to match the shows to be held: you
need two or three (not sure) cards with the corresponding show on them to play a
matching set.
05:31:18 seo When you do, you score for the values on the cards (e.g.: -
2, 1, 3 scores 2 points).
05:33:44 seo if you play a valid set, the show is completed (card
discarded), a new show is assigned for the ring, and you keep get chits
corresponding to your score.
05:35:09 seo not sure about the ringmaster cards, but they should be
valuable and expensive to get
05:36:37 seo maybe you need to play a set formed by cards that would be
valuable for a regular set, like 3x+3 of 3 different shows?
05:37:00 seo and you obviously get a lot of points for a ringmaster card
05:38:19 seo or maybe you just add it to your hand, and it can be used
as a wild in a future set, so that you can form sets easily and have no need to
play negative valued cards just to complete the set?
05:38:38 seo yeah, I think I like using them as wilds
05:48:18 seo you have a game there. now we just need to make it
interesting and fun.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 05:52:20 seo Zzzzz-sleep? quit (timeout)
05:52:20 seo Zzzzz-sleep? quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:18:33 Zzzzz-yepp-working ok Pandemic was
fun, I admit it...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:19:14 seo I wrote you a lot on Zzzzz-sleep
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:19:30 seo well, not a lot, but a bit
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:19:51 seo and it just timed out :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:20:17 seo I'll copy and send you by mail
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:20:35 Zzzzz-yepp-working ok thx, because I
did not see it
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:20:47 Zzzzz-yepp-working thouhg I might
when I get home tonight
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:22:18 seo sent
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:25:31 Zzzzz-yepp-working ok I will check
for it in a bit, sadly I notice that my gmail (which I use/forward multiple email
account to) does not seem to update often enough, like a 15 minute *lag*
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:26:08 seo I can send directly to gmail
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:26:39 Zzzzz-yepp-working claps for himself
since he was able to update his BGG account with two new played games! (the first
two I ahve logged lol)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:26:59 seo bravo!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:27:40 Zzzzz-yepp-working i wish you good go
play... it is really a good break for the grind
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:28:08 Zzzzz-yepp-working i cant explain it,
I was almost like a kid in a candy store for the first time with $10 to spend on
anything I wanted
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:28:23 seo :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:36:27 seo played anything else or just
Pandemic?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:38:07 Zzzzz-yepp-working Vikings
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:38:19 seo !
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:38:32 Zzzzz-yepp-working yepp 2 GAMES!! Go
ME!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:38:33 seo quite suited to your mood yesterday
:-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:38:58 seo did the vikings visit any fjord?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:39:04 Zzzzz-yepp-working yepp
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:39:49 Zzzzz-yepp-working no but I actually
noticed at the game store last night a game called Fjords so I now have to look
that up to see what it contains so I know my idea os still ok
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:41:03 Zzzzz-yepp-working ok it is not
anything near what i have in mind
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:43:58 Zzzzz-yepp-working oh and when I
talked to Steve last night, Scrapyard Wars is *off*, it might - though very low to
no chance - be possible for next year but all in all he feels it is dead
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:44:51 seo that's too bad to hear. Why? Just
too much going on for Zev?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:45:23 Zzzzz-yepp-working the kicker was he
had a contract and all in place... he actually did (like Dylan - a high % of al
lthe layout/art/etc... design obviously) and one day Zev called and said, hmmm not
sure I like the game play I think we are holding off
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:46:07 Zzzzz-yepp-working sadly Steve had
already done most of the work, so is has a *completed* game with no publisher
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:46:42 seo arghhh... that's ugly!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:47:00 Zzzzz-yepp-working yeah it sounded a
bit *rough* to me
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:47:18 Zzzzz-yepp-working all that work,
almost like your INAS, but take away you getting paid!! lol
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:47:21 seo I feel really sorry for Steve. I
played the game with him and Zev the first time I went to Tom's and I liked it a
lot
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:47:33 Zzzzz-yepp-working ah
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:47:50 seo one good new (amazing timing, too):
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:47:58 Zzzzz-yepp-working yeah I think it
really sucked the desire out of him to publish a game
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:48:20 seo I just got a geek mail from a guy
here in Montevideo, telling me he is part of a group meeting most Sundays!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:48:34 Zzzzz-yepp-working what?!?!? NICE!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:49:13 Zzzzz-yepp-working yeah I realized I
was depriving myself but NOT playing games
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:49:36 Zzzzz-yepp-working now I have the
chance to meet every Thursday (though not sure the wife will be on board for it
every week, but we will see)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:51:10 seo I'll try to meet these guys once a
month or so. It would be great, and I might even lure them into playtesting my
games. ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:53:05 Zzzzz-yepp-working good idea... i
guess this thursday group will play Steve's games occasionally... I dont plan on
using it for that unless I really think I have something that I just HAVE to try
out. I want to go there and PLAY! PLAY PLAY PLAY!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:53:58 Zzzzz-yepp-working oh I read the
email... good ideas. I will comment and email back
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 06:54:09 Zzzzz-yepp-working my brain is not in
design mode yet today :(
changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 07:06:31 Zzzzz So after playing Pandemic (and
losing), i would really like to play it again. The oddity to me seem to be these
*roles* that are in the game. at one point I was think that all I should be doing,
ease using my special *role* ability. but I dunno where we went wrong, but we lost
big time!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 07:29:44 Zzzzz Vikings was fun, I was in the lead
all the way until the final scoring.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 07:30:23 Zzzzz My main backfired when I did not
realize the number of left islands availble. so I lost like 17 VP right at the end
to REALLY be the loser of the game!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 07:33:15 Zzzzz My main plan*
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:08:19 doho123 Viking pandemics
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:16:00 kj z*5 - let me know if you have any
comments on the making tiles post I wrote last night...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:17:25 Zzzzz scott that is a 2009 game to be
released!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:17:53 Zzzzz where is the post? I saw the
request for a new page, so I created the page and have it *under construction*
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:18:00 Zzzzz did you post content for the page?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:22:03 kj Just posted it to a forum post in
the Prototype section.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:22:17 kj sorry - didn't see that you have a
page under construction
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:23:52 kj heading off to work - later
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:30:55 seo Dave: we're making progress!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:31:05 seo sent you a mail
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:31:13 doho123 WOO! for Progress
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:33:06 seo this gamer who contacted me today
on BGG apparently has a huge collection :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:33:20 seo
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewcollection.php3?
username=Pinhead&own=1&startletter=ALL
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:33:32 doho123 (what are you making progress
on, may I ask)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:35:02 seo a GDS entry
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:35:50 doho123 ah
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:36:58 seo that's why we're so secretive
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:41:10 Zzzzz whoa i like that idea alot!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:41:46 doho123 well, I won't be entering, so
don't mind me if there's an accidental blab
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:41:47 Zzzzz only 114 total games?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:41:49 Zzzzz lol
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:42:05 Zzzzz no entry?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:42:12 Zzzzz scott scott scott...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:42:25 doho123 too busy on other things
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:42:30 doho123 (sorry)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:42:42 Zzzzz i was just teasing. I understand.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:43:01 Zzzzz maybe we should have you help seo
and I, we are jointly workign on one because neither of us *has the time*
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:43:08 doho123 too excited about this
shipwreck game
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:43:49 doho123 Well, if you want me to help
with your secret cabal, I can see what I can do
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:44:34 Zzzzz ugh well I think kj is missing
something, I do not see any *content* for a making tiles
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:44:53 Zzzzz or maybe I am missing something, he
as a one sentence post on making tiles
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:45:00 Zzzzz anyways
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:45:15 seo I read his post yesterday
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:45:32 seo or this morning
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:45:45 doho123 oh, I caught Darke peeking in
at BGDF. apparently he's not dead
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:45:46 seo http://www.bgdf.com/tiki-
view_forum_thread.php?
forumId=19&comments_parentId=14954&comments_offset=0#threadId14954
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:45:53 Zzzzz hmmm i cant find it
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:46:29 seo he was on the chat last night just
to post a link to the new Dice Tower episode
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:46:35 Zzzzz thx... why do I not see it in the
last posts
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:46:58 Zzzzz hmmm because I cant read...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:47:01 Zzzzz thx
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:47:04 seo it's there, number 6
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:47:30 seo maybe the title "making tiles" was
a bit criptic :-P
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:47:55 seo cryptic*
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:50:10 doho123 it's generic lesson plan on
making tiles, as opposed to his tile set?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:51:32 seo yes, his method to make tiles
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:51:50 doho123 bah. I want to steal ideas!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:52:03 doho123 not manufacturing processes
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:52:55 seo and I'm afraid his manufacturing
process is flawed
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:53:11 seo he cuts first, mounts later
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:53:11 doho123 DOH!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:54:40 Zzzzz I am still going to post it as
Making Tiles by member KJ
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:54:43 seo but at least he wrote the article.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:54:54 seo yes, do
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:55:10 seo I should write one, but I'm lazy
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:55:43 seo and Scott hates making tiles since
he spent a week working on the Doppleganger proto for Darke
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:55:57 doho123 which he hasn't played!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:56:12 doho123 which means he's played it as
much as I have
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 08:58:16 seo he collects nice prototypes, he
doesn't play them
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:02:26 Zzzzz :(
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:04:15 Darkehorse Hmmm I heard that.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:04:37 Zzzzz D'oh!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:05:00 Zzzzz hey darke.... long time no talk!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:05:32 Darkehorse Yep...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:05:38 Darkehorse Crazy crazy crazy
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:06:33 Zzzzz understood!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:07:58 Darkehorse How are things with you guys?
How's the Gradester?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:08:50 seo Hi Darke
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:09:05 doho123 I'm stealing your Shipwreck
theme!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:10:13 Darkehorse You may not.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:10:27 doho123 TOO LATE!!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:10:30 Darkehorse Especially since I stole it
to begin with.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:10:38 doho123 (if it was a coffe game, I
could say TOO LATTE!)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:10:41 Darkehorse Not too late! I called dibs.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:11:27 Darkehorse Seriously, what's your's
about?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:12:37 seo Shipwrecks in the Sahara
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:12:37 doho123 finding shipwrecks using a
hidden information system
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:13:34 Darkehorse Ooo I C.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:13:39 Darkehorse Go for it.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:13:56 Darkehorse Send me a copy and I won't
play it.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:16:33 Zzzzz family is good darke.... and I
PLAYED GAMES LAST NIGHT!
Zzzzz-gameslastnight
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:16:53 Zzzzz-gameslastnight Zzzzz-
gameslastnight changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-gamedlastnight
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:17:17 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight seo email back at
you!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:17:35 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight afk for a minute
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:17:37 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight or two
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:23:26 Darkehorse What games did you play?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:24:07 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight Pandemic and
Vikings
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:24:36 doho1234 "and the winner of the award
is...Vikings and Beekeepers."
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:26:52 Darkehorse How is vikings? I played
Midgard a couple of times recently. Pretty fun game. Kinda reminded me of Memoir
in the way you play your actions.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:28:03 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight Vikings was fun,
though I screwed up since I was not paying attention to the number of left islands
still available. so in the last scoring I went from first place to last place!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:30:50 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight i could have been
more aggressive in the first few rounds and I would have easily sealed the
victory... i think
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:31:20 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight but it was my
first time playing it.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:34:55 Darkehorse Hmmm seems fun.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:35:14 Darkehorse My gaming group is having an
Arkham Horror game day tomorrow. Of course, I can't make it.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:35:37 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight it was but I am
not sure if hte fun was a result of fun games or jsut the fact that I actually
played a game!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:37:29 kj thanks for re-posting zzz - can I
edit it where it is now then?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:38:07 kj Not exactly sure if it's in a
different section of the site now or not. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:40:57 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight i dont think you
will have hte permissions, but if you comment on changes you want on that page. I
can easily update it. that was the normal process since we do not want it to really
be an *open* wiki because of potential spammers
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:41:25 kj no problem - might have a couple
more things I thought of as I was cutting some tiles last night. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:41:55 kj Wanted to take some pictures of the
process, but couldn't glue and snap at the same time. :(
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:42:11 kj But might be able to for the tile
cutting part.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:42:16 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight sure.. anything
you want to add just post a comment with the new content to add/change. more or
less once a week I try to look at the requested changes and update pages. and other
admins/editors do too.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:42:32 seo kj, why do you cut first and then
mount? it's easier to mount, then cut
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:42:42 kj thanks - hope it's vaguely useful
to someone.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:42:57 kj ? seo? I glued then cut
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:43:18 seo maybe I read it too quick then
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:43:42 kj I think the order is right on the
page.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:43:44 seo I thought you said you cut first
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:44:06 kj No cutting is step 7 - the last
step.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:44:14 seo you talked about carefully aligning
things
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:44:27 kj that's the layers being glued
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:44:30 kj hi G
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:44:34 seo I guess from that I thought you had
all pre-cut
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:44:36 GamesOnTheBrain hi
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:44:44 seo my mistake :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:45:18 kj no - pre-cut before gluing would be
a disaster :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:46:07 kj I'm still trying to learn to trim
off 1mm from my tile block when necessary - takes tremendous force and three hands.
:(
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:46:35 kj and with my design I need to do
that before cutting individual tiles (long story).
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:46:59 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight three hands? lol
what about some small clamps to clamp it down to a surface before cutting? that
would be a third hand
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:49:33 kj would be impossible to clamp the
tiles to the cutter in my case, and would leave an impression on the tiles. Don't
think I could clamp down the guide either.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:49:46 kj Just edited the wiki article - it
let me. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:50:28 kj gotta run - later all
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 09:54:51 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight good...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:09:58 seo I think he has a rottary cutter
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:10:15 seo maybe he needs longer arms on the
cutter for better leverage
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:13:46 seo Darkehorse quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:15:12 MatthewF I know for me, I create
registration marks (of a sort) on the front and back printouts, outside the area of
the tiles, and then trim down to those marks. Then when placing them back to front,
I escape the printer misalignment issues.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:15:39 MatthewF But not the human
misalignment issues. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:15:55 MatthewF Also, hello to everyoen who
is actually here.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:16:21 seo Hello Mr. Matthew
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:27:57 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight Seth quit
(timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:29:47 MatthewF Seems to be timing out a bit
today
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:29:56 MatthewF Though maybe that was just me
ignoring it
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:47:52 seo quitters!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:54:15 Seth Yo
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:54:18 Seth Hi guys
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:58:53 Seth "My name is Jonny de Vries, CEO of
the dutch publisher QWG Games. I saw your proto of "Terra Prime" on the BGG, which
looked to me."
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:59:09 Seth I should ask Rene about these guys
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 10:59:54 seo Your proto looked to Johnny? I
don't remember your proto of TP having eyes!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:00:08 Seth I know :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:00:22 Seth English as a second language
sometimes sounds funny
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:00:36 Seth or in this case it's likely a 5th
or 6th language
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:01:08 seo you telling [b]me[/b] "English as a
second language sometimes sounds funny" is funny too
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:01:26 clearclaw [color=#008080] For dutchmen
English is very nearly a first language. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:01:34 seo I am the expert on making English
as a second language sound funny
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:02:12 clearclaw [color=#008080] The
Netherlands' educational patterns for English as quite a bit bigher than either
England's or the USA's. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:03:17 seo I've heard they even teach the
dutch children to spell "bigger" properly :-P
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:03:30 Seth well, then maybe this guy's
originally from Germany or someplace
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:03:57 seo anyway, congrats! Is he interested
in publñishing the game?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:03:58 Seth I suppose I should reply to him
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:04:03 Seth (I gott hat in geekmail)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:04:20 Seth "I was wondering if you are
interested in sending/email us some proto games so we can take a look at them. We
are busy with our 2009 program and are searching for new great games."
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:04:46 seo Wow. Sounds good!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:05:24 seo Just don't let Scott tell them that
that's not how space stations work.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:05:35 seo Except corrupt space stations
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:07:40 Seth so who are QWG games?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:07:53 Seth I googled and Mike Doye's blog came
up
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:08:06 Seth did they publish Leonardo da Vinci
and KeyHarvest>?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:08:30 Seth http://www.quined.com/
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:08:59 seo they published many big name games
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/publisher/4696
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:09:18 Seth interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:10:37 Seth (sidetrack: a suggested name for a
pony express game in a thread on BGG: "How about "My Little Pony Express"? You can
have pastel-coloured game pieces")
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:10:51 Seth lol @ My Little Pony Express
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:11:49 Seth back to this publisher... so should
I reply and tell him about the games I have? At first I thought it sounded like he
was interested in TP, but he says "...sending/email us some proto games so we can
take a look at them."
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:11:55 Seth maybe he means anything..?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:12:06 seo maybe
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:12:28 seo I would at least mention and send
him a few summaries or rulebooks
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:12:40 seo linkt to the bgg pages for the ones
that have one
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:13:10 Seth I think I will send some
descriptions (and in the case of WT and A41, links to BGG entries) and ask if
they're interested in rulebooks/protos
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:13:18 Seth right
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:13:21 Seth good thinking :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:13:33 clearclaw [color=#008080] A friendly
reply asking what sort of thing they're most interested in might be in order. That
way you can tailor your presentation to their interests. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:13:36 seo don't forget to tell them that even
though your games are great, there's also this great tennis card game you want to
see published ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:14:12 Seth I was actually thinking of
mentioning games I have access to by other designers as well (like LMN)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:14:21 Seth OH!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:14:23 Seth Speaking of LMN
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:17:01 seo that would be welcome and thanked,
but I was just joking, not asking. But I accept the offer. :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:20:02 seo Speaking of LMN... what??? You left
me all excited
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:20:21 Seth My friend (brb
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:22:18 Seth ... I'm confused. i thought Ystari
published Caylus
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:22:57 seo I think they published all those
games only in NL
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:23:00 Seth Seo: My friend Kayvon
(http://www.boardgamegeek.com/user/Kayvon) really liked LMN nd wants a copy
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:23:07 Seth he'd like to buy one from you
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:23:23 Seth oh, so they're like a Netherlands
version of RGG?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:24:44 seo tell him I'll send him a copy and
he can send me something in exchange
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:25:44 Seth what would you like in exchange?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:26:40 seo if he can wait, I might send him
the new version when I have it, otherwise I can just print the one I sent you
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:26:41 seo dunno, maybe some nice card game he
doesn't want anymore?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:26:43 seo I'll check his bgg "for trade" list
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:27:13 Seth his trade list is mediocre
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:27:44 seo What about Settlers the card game,
is it too bad?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:28:15 seo I don't have Settlers regular
either
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:28:17 Seth maybe not
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:28:22 Seth I played it once a long time ago
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:28:30 Seth maybe that would be good
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:28:48 seo ranked 196
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:28:54 Seth you could geekmail him and work out
the details
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:29:11 seo yeah, I will.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:30:54 seo Should I add LMN to BGG? If I do he
could add LMN to his Wanted list :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:31:35 Seth Maybe you should!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:31:49 Seth I could add it to my collection :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:31:56 simpson joins SpielTalk!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:31:57 Seth and post session reports
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:32:09 Seth and port all my plays over from
Unpublished Prototype to LMN
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:32:18 Seth (which is a hassle, but that's ok)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:35:34 seo by the time I get LMN published,
I'll have to at least name it Seth's LMN :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:36:00 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight ...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:38:41 Seth are you entering LMN on BGG?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:38:46 Seth You could post pics of the cads
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:38:54 Seth er, cards (there I go again)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:39:17 Seth you could post the illustration
from the rulebook which shows "how to read" the cards
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:39:36 seo I will, I guess, but I'm not doing
it right now, I'm working (and chatting, which is enough distraction)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:39:59 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight i could post
comments on a *doubles* game though it is based on a very OLD version of the game
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:40:08 seo I'll probably update the rulebook
first, too, so I can upload that
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:45:36 seo I'll use your summary text, Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:48:48 Seth oh yeah
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:48:59 Seth Dave you played that doubles game
last July, right?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:49:07 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight yepp
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:49:22 Seth So like the day after (or maybe the
very day) those ruels were invented by Seo!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:49:32 Seth though I don't think they changed
much
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:49:45 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight yeah I know
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:49:54 Seth just a little - when you play out
of turn you become "off balance" and only draw 1 card I think
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:50:01 seo three days before!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:50:02 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight oops I know they
where *invented* on the spot
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:50:15 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight oh 3 days before??
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:50:29 Seth well, I guess so
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:50:32 seo but never tested
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:50:34 Seth the doubles rules tho?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:50:41 Seth I thought we didn't talk about that
until the car ride up?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:50:41 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight ah so my
*comments* or such have you would still be pretty valid
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:50:51 seo and I think we did some adjustments
DURING the game
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:50:55 Seth could be!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:51:05 Seth I think you did (but I wasn't
really watching)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:51:55 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight so it is bad that
I want to play more games today? last night has me wanting the play more and more
and more... not sure it was a smart idea to play!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:53:33 Seth wants to play Brass today
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:53:37 Seth (I probably will)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:54:20 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight i want to replay
Pandemic and Vikings... and then more *new* games
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:54:45 Seth Ok, so I'm replying to QWG, and I'm
mentioning TP, A41, WT, Homesteaders, and LMN
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:54:57 Seth but TP and HS are being reviewed by
publishers (which I've mentioned)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:55:18 Seth I suppose I should also mention
Reading Ralroad
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:55:31 Seth lol, I should probably spell that
one right though...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:55:40 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight lol
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:55:45 seo it might help
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:56:21 seo OTOH, you can promote it as "A word
game for illiterate gamers"
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:57:07 seo Oh, Seth, I have big news: a guy
from BGG wrote me asking if I was in Montevideo
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:57:26 Seth and
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:57:30 seo he has a game group here, and 114
games in his collection! :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:57:38 Seth whoa!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:57:47 Seth which user?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:57:57 seo
http://boardgamegeek.com/user/Pinhead
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:57:58 Seth maybe he'd like to add LMN and make
it 115
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:58:47 Seth his 10s and 9s are odd
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:58:48 seo yeah, part of the plan is to turn
his group into my guinea pigs
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:58:55 Seth a variety of very different types
of games
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:58:59 seo but mainly have a chance to play
some games
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:59:22 Seth looks like he's got some good
stuff!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 11:59:52 seo and we share some preferences in
music too
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:00:20 doho1234 doho1234 changes his/her
nickname to J_deVries
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:00:59 Seth Hi "Jonny"
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:01:13 Seth (brb)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:01:26 J_deVries "I regret to inform you that
we see no market in corrupt space sation games."
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:01:31 J_deVries "Thank you. Go to hell."
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:02:45 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight Seth guess that
means you should not mention *A41 : In Space*
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:03:36 J_deVries "I regret to inform you that
All for One will not be accepted because we already have a Muskateer game, "French
Queens in Space. Thank you. Go die in a fire."
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:05:28 seo I would like to know your opinion
on Wizards' Towers, Johnny
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:06:29 J_deVries "It is a little too abstract
for our tastes, plus we are already doing a Tower game "The Tower of London. Thank
you for your time. Loser."
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:07:37 seo Homesteaders?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:08:14 J_deVries "WHY DO YOU KEEP SENDING US
ALL OF THESE GAMES!!!?? Thank you for your time. You suck."
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:09:23 seo Reading Railroad
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:10:15 J_deVries "finally, a unique twist on a
classic theme! Here's our upfront development check for 1 million Euros. Thank you.
Go skewer your hean on a shovel."
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:11:01 J_deVries head. thank you
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:11:06 seo simpson quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:11:42 seo claps a standing ovation
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:12:06 J_deVries thank you. shut up and die.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:12:23 seo dies
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:16:44 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight exits stage right
->
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:18:17 Seth LOL @ "we are already doing a Tower
game "The Tower of London."
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:18:42 J_deVries J_deVries changes his/her
nickname to doho123
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:18:49 doho123 so, did I miss anything?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:20:00 seo Reading Railroad is going to be
published
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:20:13 doho123 woo!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:20:23 seo ask Seth for your share of the 1
million he got in advance
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:21:21 seo the idea was yours, so you should
as him for € 980.000
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:38:28 Seth uh oh
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:38:44 Seth if QWG publishes A41, Mike Doyle
might end up doing the art!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:39:08 Seth he appears to do like all their
stuff
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:39:21 Seth and I' mnot usually a fan of his
work
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:39:27 Seth oh well
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:40:06 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight there are worse
things than his art work...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:40:20 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight like being
unpublished!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:41:31 doho123 "The use of renaissance
styling and puffy shirts on the muskateer cards have made them appear even more
gay"
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:41:40 seo do MD do the art for them, or they
publish stuff MD did the art for other companies?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:43:09 seo if the later, they might let you
select the artist (and probably pay for his work, too)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:46:23 Seth it looks like MD did the art for
their reprints of a lot of things
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:46:39 Seth not necessarily the original art
for the original companies
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:49:14 Seth Seo: If I help you get LMN
published, can I get my name on the box too (as Developer or soemthing)>
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:51:45 seo yeah, why not? You helped me with a
lot of good ideas and you sure did more to promote it. :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:57:03 seo but only if you get Doyle to do the
art. I want lawn tennis courts with chalk lines ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:57:31 seo no, seriously, no need for MD to do
the art
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:58:24 Seth You don't want to do the art for
your own game? Did you learn your lesson with INAS
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:58:48 doho123 "The lack of a green lawn
with chalk llines tend to make this game seem less exciting than it really should
be."
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:58:56 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight is obsessed today.
cannot focus on work wants to play play play...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:59:24 Seth welcometo my world, Dave
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 12:59:52 doho123 "Here, with the tennis
racquets simply lined up, there is no stiff reinactment of a scene or literal story
being told. It is more abstract in nature allowing the viewer to imagine."
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:00:01 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight yeah but I have to
pace myself... i have too much other stuff to do so I cannot play all the time
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:00:14 seo I WANT to do the art. That's INAS
experience. It's a lot of work to do the art, but as much to get someone else to do
what you want.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:24:41 Seth So should I drive up to Phx with my
firend tomorrow just to play games for like 8 hours then drive home?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:24:58 Seth or should I just invite people over
and have a mini sedjcon at my house instead
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:25:15 Seth there's a convention in phx
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:25:55 Seth but last year we went up there and
just played games with each other (maybe I played with 3 on-tucson people)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:30:59 Seth *non-Tucson
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:38:48 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight well my guess is
that you could get more people at your house to play with, so why bother driving?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:39:44 Seth plus it's like $30 for the
convention
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:39:59 Seth and prolly another $30 or so in gas
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:42:24 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight yeah you can use
that $60 for a new game or two
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:43:50 Seth good point
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:44:18 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight have fun at the
con ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:44:22 Seth speaking of new games, I ought to
get Merchants of Amsterdam today - they said they sent it on Monday...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:44:33 Seth I don't tjhink I'll go to the con
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:44:48 Seth John is annoyd, because he won the
Con Run last year and got free entry this year
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:44:55 Seth but noone wants to go with him
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:46:01 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight ah... well it
happens
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:47:25 seo Don't go to the con. I won't go to
the con, Dave won't go to the con, Scott won't go to the con and JC won't go to the
con.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:47:37 seo The whole chat will boycott the con
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:47:48 Seth sounds like a deal
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:47:56 doho123 that's right! UP WITH BGDF!
DOWN WITH CON!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:48:01 Seth besides, with sedjcon I get to eat
yummy bratwurst
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:48:05 doho123 our movement is growing!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:49:28 Seth Once I get published, and become a
conduit for other designers, I will have SedjCon prototype events, and I'll get you
guys to come down to Tucson for a log weekend to play each others protos and figure
out which should be published (and iron them out)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:49:34 Seth then I'll get them published :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:49:40 Seth that would be awesome
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:50:12 doho123 I thought that you'd be so
successful that you'd fly us out on your own dime
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:50:31 Seth well, when I become rich, sure.
Like Alea
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:50:55 Seth but until then I'm afraid I can't
do that. Maybe I could work out a place for you guys to stay for free
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:51:06 doho123 DOWN WITH SEDJCON!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:51:44 Seth It's fine, just get influence in
Ohare and Sky Harbor, then you can fly for free!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:53:49 seo until he gets rich he'll only be
able to pay ME
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:54:38 seo anyway, gotta go.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:54:40 clearclaw [color=#008080] Meeples
Choice just came in: RftG, Agricola, Brass. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 13:55:39 clearclaw [color=#008080] Wabash took
#11, Container #15 and King of Siam #21 (which were the only three games on the
list I had any interest in) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:00:42 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight link?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:04:03 Seth You don't like Brass?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:04:40 Seth there are even opportuinties to
"use niceness as a weapon" - like flipping an opponent's port (giving them income
and allowing it to score) so that they have no place to sell their cotton...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:14:03 clearclaw [color=#008080] The contest
is run entirely on Spielfrieks. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:14:08 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight hey seth what did
you think of Pandemic? i forget...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:14:16 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight hmmmm
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:15:00 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight really... why did
I think it was run by someone else
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:15:04 clearclaw [color=#008080] (a fine game
to occupy other people so that I don't have to play with them) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:15:35 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight ah
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:15:48 Seth lol JC
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:16:12 Seth I think Pandemic is the best coop
game on the market, it does the best job of encouraging teamwork
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:16:50 clearclaw [color=#008080] A number of
games are great for that purpose: Pandemic, TtA, RftG, Hanging Gardens, 1960 etc
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:16:58 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight ah ok.. for some
reason I thought you had a specific issue with it
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:17:10 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight maybe that was JC
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:27:50 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight doho123 quit
(timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:29:02 Zzzzz-gamedlastnight Zzzzz-
gamedlastnight changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-goinghom
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:29:09 Zzzzz-goinghom Zzzzz-goinghom changes
his/her nickname to Zzzzz-goinghome*
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:29:59 kj hey
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:31:18 Seth Dave: If I had an issue it was that
it's probably largely luck. You do the best you can do, and I suspect that if
youplay optimally, you either win or lose on the last turn based on luck. But since
you can't tell until it happens, and it's really hard to tell if you did play
"optimally", maybe that's ok
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:31:49 Seth I thinkthere's a certain percentage
of games that are unwinnable, which has got to be fine because you can't really get
around it
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:32:06 Seth I think that percentage gets pretty
high with 4 players on Hard
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:32:36 Seth I have a small issue with
associating "hard" to "increased proportion of unwinnable games:
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:32:40 Seth but it's small
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:32:49 Seth the game does a good job at what it
tries to do
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:33:20 clearclaw [color=#008080] I have a hard
time with the idea of a coop game which can be played just as effectively solo.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:33:50 Seth Oh, maybe THAT'S what you mean Dave
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:34:05 clearclaw [color=#008080] It seems to
me that a good coop game should *require* the presence and unique human abilities
of each player, not just their ability to not screw up the machinery. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:34:05 Seth I had an issue with the fact that
it's effectively solitaire
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:34:18 clearclaw [color=#008080] I haven't
made this complaint here before. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:34:42 Seth JC: I'd also like to see that, but
in the meantime, I credit Pandemic for forcing you to interact with your teammates
in order to create that plan
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:34:47 clearclaw [color=#008080] At a simpler
level I find the game in Pandemic missing, but I'm also not a coop game fane, so
I'm clearly not a good person to comment on it. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:35:26 clearclaw [color=#008080] I'd just as
soon twll the lead player all my cards and let them tell me what to do while I
figure out a way to exit quickly to something more interesting. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:35:38 Seth JC: Have you read/what did you
think of my blog posts on this issue?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:36:40 Zzzzz-goinghome* ah all comming together
now... thx
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:36:44 Zzzzz-goinghome* time for me to really go
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:36:49 Seth And should I list games that are
currently under review by publishers (and of course, note that) in an email to QWG
Games?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:36:58 clearclaw [color=#008080] Effectively
the only actual function of the players in Pandemic is to act as road-bumps in the
way of the central organising player. From a victory perspective the game is
functionally better if all but one player dies immediately after the game starts --
then the one player doesn't have to bother going through the motions. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:37:33 clearclaw [color=#008080] Seth: I don't
specifically recall your blog posts. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:38:13 Seth well, you're assuming the one
remaining player will have the single best plan. While it's true that any player
can probably reasonably plan a course of actions, i think the point of the game is
to encourage a team of people to discuss and come up with the 'best' course.
http://sedjtroll.blogspot.com/2008/01/cooperative-games-very-definition-
of.html
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:38:50 Seth and for dave: check this out:
http://sedjtroll.blogspot.com/2008/05/jim-cote-made-blog-post-about-pandemic.html
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:39:18 clearclaw [color=#008080] I'd as soon
delegate to someone who seems to be smartish and go do something else. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:41:05 clearclaw [color=#008080] The Google
talks are held on the Google campus. North Shoreline, Mountain View CA in the old
SGI buildings (I worked there for SGI) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:43:17 Seth As I recall the comments on that
post were interesting too : http://sedjtroll.blogspot.com/2008/01/cooperative-
games-very-definition-of.html#comments
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 14:43:59 seo Zzzzz-goinghome* quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:02:02 nando [color=#800000] "Our report is that
we had a news today for discover a very exciting crop circles in near Chungnam
Boryoung City, South Korea." [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:03:25 Seth ..?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:03:57 nando [color=#800000] I dunno [/color]
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/inter2008/southkorea/southkorea2008.html
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:04:07 nando [color=#800000] today is friday the
13th... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:04:13 nando [color=#800000] I want to golf
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:12:43 Seth are those 2 statements related? Do
you want to golf [i]because[/i] it's Friday the 13th?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:13:05 Seth (I suspect it's not Friday the 13th
[i]because you want to golf[/i])
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:13:28 nando [color=#800000] no. they are just
passing observations. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:15:55 Seth is hungry
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:16:02 Seth I think I'll probably get a burrito
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:51:07 nando [color=#800000] hey rick [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:51:19 Seth hi Rick
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:53:11 nando [color=#800000] lol. hey gog
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:53:21 nando [color=#800000] you sneaky people
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:53:45 Gogolski Boo!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:54:31 Rick Hi gang
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:54:43 Rick Y'all [i]would[/i] show up while I
was afk
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:54:55 Rick Seth, saw the blog -- congrats on
more publisher interest!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:55:18 Seth thx
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:56:30 nando [color=#800000] tim russert died of
a heart attack [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:56:56 nando [color=#800000] we could say the
same about you, rick [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:57:24 nando [color=#800000] except that we were
here, just inattentive [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:57:47 Rick I'm not dead yet!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:57:54 nando [color=#800000] Rick, any closer to
a theme? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:58:00 Rick I'm feeling better!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:58:22 Rick Probably going to stick with the
talent scout theme. It's not a horrible fit, and I haven't found anything better.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:58:38 nando [color=#800000] 4pm. I should go
sit in the sun .... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:58:41 Rick It will be moot if I can't spiff up
the gameplay.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:58:44 Seth I like the talent scout theme
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:58:52 Seth wrong, only 3pm
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 15:59:01 Rick Woops, gotta go afk again -- back
later, maybe
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:00:34 Seth I'm out
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:00:36 Seth see you later
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:22:23 Zzzzz-home .,.,,..,.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:24:26 Rick [i]Yesss!!![/i]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:24:30 Rick pumps fist in the air
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:24:38 Rick My computer has been repaired!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:24:47 nando [color=#800000] nerd [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:24:50 seo Congrats!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:24:52 nando [color=#800000] :P [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:24:52 Rick Starting tonight I'll have my email
back, and more importantly,
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:25:02 Rick I'll have all my game-design files
back!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:28:46 Zzzzz-home nice....
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:29:01 Zzzzz-home gladd to see the luck was on
your side
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:29:29 Rick Luck, my rosy-red assets. It's been
like three weeks, and should have been just one!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:30:51 Zzzzz-home yeah but depending on what
went wrong, you could have lost it all!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:31:07 Zzzzz-home the one major downside to
computers and lack of backups etc....
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:31:52 Rick I'm covered as long as my house
doesn't burn down.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:32:13 Rick What I lack is off-site backups.
Used to use tape, but disk drives hold too much data these days.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:32:27 Rick You really can only back up to
another disk drive, which makes off-site difficult.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:32:47 Zzzzz-home yeah but how were you NOT
able to access it for 3 weeks than?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:33:14 Rick Apple's "Time Machine" backup
system is great but has this flaw: it's only accessible from OS X 10.5.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:33:33 Rick My "lifeboat" laptop is a 10.3
machine. :p
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:33:50 Zzzzz-home ah
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:34:20 Rick Actually you can retrieve
individual files without much trouble. But my game files are directories full of
stuff.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:34:31 Rick Much harder to recover without Time
Machine.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:35:02 Rick I could write a program that would
do it, but my "lifeboat" has no development software! :drizzle::$::drizzle:
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:35:37 Rick So I decided to take a break, and
just wait it out. But I've been getting pretty desperate.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:36:02 Zzzzz-home understood... i did not
realize you would have had to jump through hoops like that
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:37:25 Rick Honestly, I could have done it if
I'd been any more desperate. But first it was only going to be a couple of days,
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:37:32 Rick then another week, then another...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:37:48 Zzzzz-home the trickle effect...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:37:53 Rick It always seemed like I'd get my
Mac back soon enough that excessive hacking wasn't worth the effort.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:38:03 Zzzzz-home what machine was it? iMac?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:38:23 Rick MacBook Pro. Nice box, 2 Gb RAM,
lots of disk, big screen.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:38:39 Rick I've been using a bitty little old
iBook for my lifeboat.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:39:02 Rick It's going to be like getting out
of jail. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:39:11 Rick (Uh, I mean... so I've heard...
um.)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 16:40:04 Zzzzz-home hehe
17:14:35 seo hey, I've been thinking about your las mail
17:14:57 seo maybe we could make the main ring larger (8 cards)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 17:27:53 seo Gogolski quit (timeout)
17:29:21 seo ahh... gotta go get the dinner (Chinese)
17:29:31 seo ttyl
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 17:39:06 cocadieta Howdy everyone (anyone?)
17:52:42 Zzzzz-home whooooa... yeah the center ring being bigger would be
nice
17:53:15 Zzzzz-home i am going to attempt my own crappy image mockup...
maybe it will be ready by the time you come back from dinner..
18:12:01 Zzzzz-home eek bad storm hitting us... back later so the
computer does not get zapped!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 18:12:03 Zzzzz-home Zzzzz-home quit
18:12:03 Zzzzz-home Zzzzz-home quit
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 18:30:46 nando doho123 quit (timeout)
http://www.nand.it/ttlb/index.html?n=25 [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 18:48:33 nando [color=#800000] that's the best
one. no need to see them all. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 19:05:31 Zzzzz cocadieta quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:08:12 Zzzzz what what
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:08:15 Zzzzz hi
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:10:19 seo got my mail?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:10:27 Zzzzz yepp
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:10:31 Zzzzz anything new new?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:10:41 Zzzzz i just uploaded a file in dropbox
for you
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:11:03 Zzzzz LOL
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:11:11 seo dropbox just told me :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:11:23 Zzzzz I never looked at your latest
email, you have to look at the file I uploaded for you!! great minds think alike!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:11:51 Seth You guys cookin' on that GDS entry?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:13:14 seo I can't find it!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:13:17 seo where is it?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:13:25 Zzzzz maybe... we have a *core* idea, now
the hard part, making an actual game lol
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:13:33 Zzzzz seo : i just shared a new folder
with you
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:15:13 seo dumb me! A message popped up for a
sec, I thought it was Dropbox telling me of the update, but it was Thunderbird
tellingme of a new mail from Dropbox
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:15:38 Zzzzz hehe
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:17:10 seo Seth: yes, we're working on an
entry
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:18:00 Seth is it super cool?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:18:04 Zzzzz sad part if no scott entry!?!!?!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:18:08 Zzzzz is*
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:18:15 Zzzzz so we can try to beat him
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:18:20 Zzzzz cant*
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:18:21 Zzzzz ugh
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:18:26 seo it is hyper cool
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:18:47 Zzzzz sighs at the typo-itis
pv_3f92d2282f6ba89620f5a5f277e83aff_abc5b769925290bf7ab0fdbe088729a7 13/06/2008
20:19:00 seo you need to complete the shows in order?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:23:32 seo ..
20:24:20 Zzzzz well I was not thinking order as much as some form of
*movement* around the outside of the circle. where players could *score* anytime
they wanted if they are near an outer ring. but to score on the inner ring they had
to be next to a ringmaster and maybe have a ringmaster card to enter the inner
ring.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:24:32 Zzzzz !!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:24:53 Seth Zzzzz: you should count your typo-s
each day, then do 2 pushups per error before going to bed
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:24:58 Seth it'll help!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:25:25 seo you still do the push ups?
20:25:29 Zzzzz but that might be too much, it might be easier to just do
some of it the way you mentioned in your email
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:25:36 Seth (no :( )
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:25:43 Zzzzz wow
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:25:47 Zzzzz that would suck!
20:25:59 seo yeah, I'm not too fond of the pawn moving around idea
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:26:00 Zzzzz I would be doing like 1000 a day,
maybe more!
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:26:06 Seth well, it would suck, or you'd start
typing better
20:26:12 seo I fear it's anti-thematic
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:26:31 Zzzzz my programming job technically has
typos all over because you usually do not use complete words
20:26:43 Zzzzz true
20:26:51 Zzzzz ok no pawn moving around
20:27:35 Zzzzz what about need to match up with a ringmaster card to score
in the inner ring? sound good? and maybe that is 2x scoring
20:28:41 seo so you have ringmaster cards in the in-hand deck, and for
the center ring you need the show cards AND a ringmaster card?
20:28:51 seo not sure I get your idea right
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:33:15 Seth (that's no excuse!)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:33:21 Seth I'm going to go to the park for a
while
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:33:24 Seth see you gits later
20:34:23 Zzzzz maybe.. i am trying to figure out the best way to make it
*harder* to score in the middle ring. since you need that sort of decision point so
the outer rings are worth using, at least for the card located *between* the inner
and outer rings
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:34:33 Zzzzz later
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:34:40 seo you can do push-ups in the park
20:35:01 Zzzzz i need to read your email again about the marker build...
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:35:19 Zzzzz YES! do like 50 for me so it
reduced my number to do tonight, thx!
20:35:25 seo yeah, inner ring should score higher and be harder to
reach, or something
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:35:48 seo do some abs for me too, when you're
at it
20:36:54 Zzzzz ok so for the *red* outlined cards on your image. those
need *more* markers to enter the center ring, but do the other cards around the
center ring need 2? more?
20:37:52 Zzzzz oh
20:38:05 Zzzzz want maybe the inner locations need a 3 of a kind match to
score it
20:38:19 Zzzzz but you also get to add more markers or score more vp for
achieving it
20:38:29 seo no, I was thinking that you need to have markers on at
least two of those, not 2 markers on any of those
20:38:36 Zzzzz outer is just 2 of a kind to match....
20:38:45 Zzzzz oh
20:38:51 seo yea, sound great
20:39:05 Zzzzz ok so lets sort of recap quickly
20:39:17 Zzzzz we have *3* rings, 1 inner , 2 outer
20:39:17 seo sets of 2 for outer rings, 3 for inner :-)
20:39:42 Zzzzz we have two ringmaster locations, what are they going to be
for? (TBD)
20:39:56 seo and you need to already have markers on at least two of the
red-outlined cards to scor on the inner ring
20:40:01 Zzzzz we have a hand of cards that players use to make the sets
of 2 or 3 to score
20:40:14 Zzzzz oooh
20:40:33 seo or maybe we use the ringmaster cards some other way (maybe
liek my original idea)
20:40:38 Zzzzz ok so all players can score on all *acts* on the board. so
you and I both could have markers on the same areas
20:40:40 seo and
20:41:06 seo to score on the inner ring you need to have markers on all
cards of one of the outer rings
20:41:25 seo (or on X cards on the outer rings, if all is too hard)
20:41:30 Zzzzz ah.. so you have to at least match those 4 areas
20:41:41 seo yes, we can have markers on the same card
20:41:47 Zzzzz yeah or like you said you have to have at least two
20:42:00 seo but when the ring is closed, only the one with majority
scores
20:42:09 Zzzzz right
20:42:23 Zzzzz once closed you flip all cards over to look like a ring
20:42:28 Zzzzz expect for the one scoring
20:42:33 seo yes
20:42:45 Zzzzz sounds good
20:42:52 seo I guess you score a card and turn it
20:42:59 seo then the next, and so on
20:43:09 seo until the ring is closed
20:43:27 seo so 5 cards for each outer ring
20:43:31 Zzzzz that sees to work nicely
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:43:41 Zzzzz GamesOnTheBrain quit (timeout)
20:43:46 Zzzzz yepp...
20:44:13 seo BTW, I also thought calling the game 3-Ring Circus :-)
20:44:18 Zzzzz and I think your layout for the center ring should only use
6 like in yours
20:44:32 seo it's liek the natural title, isn't it?
20:44:35 Zzzzz the 8 i have seems too much
20:45:04 Zzzzz yeah I cant wait to see how many use that name lol
20:45:07 seo it will depend on how fast the game goes, I guess
20:45:14 Zzzzz tru
20:45:32 Zzzzz mumbles 2 more push-ups
20:45:32 seo but it's easy to adjust that later
20:45:42 Zzzzz yepp
ch_seo 13/06/2008 20:48:10 Zzzzz joins seo
ch_Zzzzz 13/06/2008 20:48:11 seo joins Zzzzz
ch_seo 13/06/2008 20:48:54 Zzzzz ugh
ch_Zzzzz 13/06/2008 20:48:56 seo ...
ch_seo 13/06/2008 20:49:17 Zzzzz did you copy the chat? i lost it unless
my quick copy will actually paste
Zzzzz-afk
ch_seo 13/06/2008 20:50:07 Zzzzz Zzzzz changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-
afk
20:50:07 Zzzzz Zzzzz changes his/her nickname to Zzzzz-afk
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:52:23 seo chat died
ch_Zzzzz 13/06/2008 20:52:38 seo seo quit
20:53:09 seo damn chat died on me!
20:53:14 seo I lost all the buffer
20:53:52 seo I have the buffer on the server, but it's annoying anyway
20:54:04 Zzzzz-afk i think I might have it.. once second
20:55:10 Zzzzz-afk ok I emailed it
ch_seo 13/06/2008 20:55:18 Zzzzz-afk Zzzzz-afk quit
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 20:55:27 Zzzzz-afk yepp yepp yepp
20:56:09 Zzzzz-afk ok i think we have a solid start
20:56:34 Zzzzz-afk oh..
20:56:42 Zzzzz-afk before the chat died I had one other idea.
20:57:06 Zzzzz-afk maybe we need to have ringmaster cards that players
have to match in order to score, period.
20:57:30 Zzzzz-afk you have to match both in order to score center....
match one and score on that outer ring?
20:57:40 Zzzzz-afk seem to difficult though, at least as I just wrote it
20:58:03 Zzzzz-afk going to get a beer...
20:58:09 Zzzzz-afk back in a few
20:58:31 seo ok
21:06:53 Zzzzz-afk back,, sort of
21:07:02 seo good
21:07:13 seo I'm working, sort of ;-)
21:07:18 Zzzzz-afk good
21:07:37 seo whole night
21:07:48 Zzzzz-afk i would be working but something is wrong with one of
the servers I am developing on, so it is hard to update to test with the server
being available
21:08:11 seo that's bad
21:13:25 Zzzzz-afk a little the big issue is the other guy i work with
is out of town and did not respond about the server, no clue when he might be back
to fix it
21:14:17 seo and you can't work locally and upload later?
21:14:33 Zzzzz-afk yeah a little
21:14:52 Zzzzz-afk but now I am focus on games again... ok I am going to
head out for a bit, time with the wifey
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 21:16:01 Zzzzz-afk keep it down in here!
21:16:39 seo ok, I'll be around for a while, ttyl
21:18:41 seo what app you use for drawing? Illustrator?
21:19:30 seo maybe we can have an editable doc format we both can use
21:20:26 seo you obviously don't have Corel on the super mac, but I can
open AI v10 files in Corel, and save back to AI
21:40:48 Zzzzz-afk nah I am using this still Omni Graffle app on OSX, i
can save as that vector pdf and....
21:41:48 seo I can open some PDF on Corel, but not this one
21:41:56 Zzzzz-afk nvm I cant open them back up in this silly app
21:42:06 Zzzzz-afk i can try to save it as EPS
21:42:14 seo LOL. it's not too important anyway
21:42:22 Zzzzz-afk true
21:43:03 Zzzzz-afk actually anything I do I can just save as photoshop
image or eps or whatever
21:43:12 Zzzzz-afk we can go from there
21:43:27 seo yeah, nm
21:43:58 Zzzzz-afk lol my skillz suck anyways
21:44:20 seo nah, they are fine
21:44:23 Zzzzz-afk ok afk again, chances are I will talk to you more
tomorrow something
21:44:31 Zzzzz-afk *fine*
21:44:38 seo ok
21:45:01 seo I'm enjoying team design a lot
21:45:46 Zzzzz-afk really?
21:45:51 Zzzzz-afk how so?
21:46:07 seo everything feels so mine, yet, when I look at it, most of
the ideas we're discussing would have never come to my mind had I not been
discussing with you
21:47:00 seo I think we make a good team (so far at least, let's wait
and see how well we do when we need to finish the game)
21:47:21 seo ;-)
21:48:24 seo I'm so used to work all alone, that exchanging ideas with
someone else is refreshing
21:48:25 Zzzzz-afk lol
21:48:54 Zzzzz-afk yeah and my desire to play and design again is
refreshing, hopefully it helps both of us!
21:49:14 Zzzzz-afk ok really afk again, need to spend time with wife
after gaming last night
21:49:24 seo go! go!
21:49:31 seo we can talk tomorrow
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 21:55:07 Seth I just rented Jumper
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 21:55:10 Seth it's finally on DVD
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 21:55:11 Seth yay
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 21:56:35 seo yay good or yay bad?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 21:56:41 seo yay good, I guess
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 21:58:14 seo though based on IMDB comments it
could as well be "I just saw it and: yay! (bad)"
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 21:59:03 seo
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 21:59:41 seo I think they killing most of the
joy of collective game design
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 22:09:06 seo 2 months working on your own, then
ship the game to the next in line so he ADDS rules or changes some of the ones you
added, then on to the next designer...?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 22:09:44 seo Makes no sense to me.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 22:44:40 seo ..
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 22:45:26 clearclaw [color=#008080] Agreed
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 22:46:23 seo what we do here is much better
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 22:47:56 seo designing is not a straight line
process, IMHO
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 22:54:31 kj Hi... Yeah, saw that the other day
- seemed a bit silly.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 22:56:28 kj I leave a pile of tiles in the
kitchen for 5 minutes and I hear one of the cats knocking them on the floor. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 22:57:11 seo maybe he's playing the game
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 22:58:43 kj *some* sort of game at least :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 22:59:03 kj *really* wants to get a die cutter.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 22:59:08 kj do you have one?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:01:45 seo no, I use a hand cutter and a metal
ruler
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:02:33 kj I find that a bit harder than a
rotary cutter but I can't say either are much fun after a while.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:07:43 kj Yeah - got my 49 new tiles cut.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:09:29 kj Was reading about Colonia the other
night in an Argentina travel book - sounds nice.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:10:38 seo it is a really nice place to walk
around
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:11:04 kj How far is it from M?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:11:13 seo the historic area, I mean
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:11:26 seo about 150 miles
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:11:45 seo or 130
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:11:45 kj ah
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:12:02 seo 2 hour drive, aprox.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:12:05 kj We're trying to decide between
Argentina, Costa Rica or a Caribbean cruise.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:12:09 kj Life is tough. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:12:39 seo do you have a date for the trip?
remember winter is about to begin here
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:13:02 seo and while we have no snow, it is
quite cold
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:13:14 kj December-january
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:13:32 kj Is Buenos Aires too hot then?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:13:38 seo ah, then the weather is no problem
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:13:58 seo BA is a bit hot, but not too hot
for tourism
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:14:10 kj over 30C?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:14:44 seo some days it can go close to 40
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:14:58 kj ay caramba! :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:15:36 seo I guess it's more about what kind
of trip you want
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:15:51 kj a trip under 30C :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:16:19 seo lots of places to visit in BA,
Costa Rica I guess is more to just relax and enjoy
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:16:54 seo in BA you have good food, museums,
shopping, etc.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:16:59 kj Looks like the ave high is around
28
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:17:16 kj Thing there's much that a 10-year
old who doesn't speak Sp would enjoy there?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:17:58 seo Ithought you were older! ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:18:18 seo I dunno, really
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:19:21 seo there are lots of nice places to
visit, not specially for children, but I guess a 10yo can enjoy them anyway
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:19:54 seo there is a Children's Museum in the
Abasto mall that is good, or used to be
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:20:22 kj ever been to Iquazu or Patagonia?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:20:31 seo you can take a train to Parque de
la Costa
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:20:51 seo Patagonia yes, El Calafate
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:21:11 seo amazing
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:21:35 seo not sure how fun it would be for a
child
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:21:45 kj Sounds great - and she'd like the
animals and glaciers
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:21:55 kj lots of flying to get down there
though
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:22:14 seo but the Glaciers are just
incredible
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:22:39 seo where are you in USA?
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:22:50 kj near Seattle
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:23:03 seo you should have straight flights to
BA from most big cities
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:23:11 kj So we've seen glacier hear and in
Alaska, but I could see them again.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:23:16 seo but it is a long trip, yes
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:23:31 kj 1 or 2 stops from Seattle
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:23:32 seo I prefer flying all night
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:23:56 seo you don't sleep well, but you sleep
some, nonetheless, and the hours go faster
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:24:01 kj I can't sleep on planes :( but
there's probably no way avoiding an overnight flight.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:24:22 kj frickin expensive too
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:24:32 seo AFAIK, the glaciers in El Calafate
are quite different
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:25:00 seo they're not hight in the mountains,
they're right beside the woods
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:25:51 seo you can go hiking on the Perito
Moreno, but I think it's for 14yo and up
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:26:13 kj there is somewhere you can ice
climb a bit any age - don't know where it was though
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:26:55 seo I dunno
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:27:12 seo I can check with my wife tomorrow,
she might know
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:28:49 kj It's in a book we have from the
library I think.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:29:02 kj Ugh - lots of flights go through
Washington, DC.
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:31:03 seo I think you can go to BA straight
from LA, Dallas, Washington, NY, Miami
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:32:42 kj Looks like some Miami flights stop
in Panama. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:33:21 seo American goes straight
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:33:58 seo Avoid Copa Airlines through Panama
if possible, you have a lot of waiting time
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:35:12 kj Orbitz shows very few direct
flights
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:35:22 kj even from Miami LA or Dallas
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:36:44 kj thanks.... off to play a quick
game before bed :)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:37:43 seo cool, bye
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:42:50 Zzzzz-afk kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 13/06/2008 23:52:27 nando [color=#800000] . [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:08:39 seo .
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:10:20 Seth hey
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:10:40 seo done with the movie?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:12:41 Seth I haven't watched it yet
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:12:55 Seth I watched some movie that was on
TV, then an episode of Scrubs
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:13:06 seo I like Scrubs
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:15:10 Seth me too
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:16:02 Seth I agree with you, that 'new
approach to game design" is dumb
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:17:54 seo I barely ever read the BGG forums,
but every time I do, I find something like that :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:18:01 nando [color=#800000] I saw the new hulk
tonight [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:18:08 Seth how is it?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:18:13 Seth better than the last one I hope?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:18:15 seo oh, is it good?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:18:18 Seth And is Tony Stark in it?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:18:27 nando [color=#800000] I can't really
remember the last one [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:18:27 seo I HAS to be better
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:18:30 nando [color=#800000] this one is decent
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:18:37 nando [color=#800000] not as good as Iron
Man though [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:18:43 Seth that's good for you, take my word
for it
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:18:50 Seth Iron Man was pretty darn good
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:18:53 nando [color=#800000] but Iron Man is
/good/ [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:18:55 seo HULK 1 = shiny bright giant green
butterfly
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:19:04 nando [color=#800000] so...take that
however you want [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:19:22 Seth Iron Man and Spiderman (the first
one) are the best superhero movies I've seen
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:19:27 nando [color=#800000] tony stark is in it
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:19:31 nando [color=#800000] for about 1 minute
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:19:50 Seth is it like Nick Fury in Iron Man?
Or like part of the movie?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:20:15 nando [color=#800000] it's before the
credits, but the same kind of scene as in Iron Man [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:20:22 nando [color=#800000] the last thing you
see, also [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:20:46 seo you just told us how it ends! ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:20:55 nando [color=#800000] oops [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:21:04 nando [color=#800000] it's sort of not
relevant [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:21:17 nando [color=#800000] fury is not in
hulk, though [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:25:53 seo Clever song, "Bob" by Weird Al
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:29:52 Seth which one is that, the one with all
the palindromes?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:31:18 seo right now I'm listening "Ode to a
Superhero" which is hilarious, and totally adequate to our chatting
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:31:36 Seth adequate?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:31:42 Seth appropriate?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:32:02 seo probably
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:32:16 seo suitable?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:33:09 seo do as if I were Johnny de Vries ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:35:28 nando [color=#800000] apropos? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:35:53 seo yes!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:37:28 Seth 00:33:09 ‹seo› do as if I were
Johnny de Vries ;-) <- I don't follow
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:38:53 seo today you defended him because
English was not his native language, remember
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:38:57 seo ?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:40:01 seo and we talked about how sometimes
English from strangers sounds funny?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:40:23 nando [color=#800000] from strangers...
heh [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:40:43 nando [color=#800000] I have half an
idea. who's interested. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:40:44 seo from aliens? ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:40:50 nando [color=#800000] ? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:41:03 seo I'm half interested
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:41:03 nando
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:41:38 nando [color=#800000] there are cards
that you draft [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:42:02 nando [color=#800000] each has a d6 die
face on it (or, you know, a number from 1 to 6) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:42:42 nando [color=#800000] you draft these
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:43:05 nando [color=#800000] the game board
(currently) has 4 "locations" on it [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:43:33 nando [color=#800000] they're linear, so
if you were on the edge, you could traverse the whole board in 3 single-step
movements [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:43:59 nando [color=#800000] so you can use your
cards for either movement or for attacking boats [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:44:13 nando [color=#800000] movement is just
one space for each pip [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:44:49 nando [color=#800000] yes, there is a
reason why you might like to have a 6 to move, but I won't go into that for now.
it's probably rare [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:45:11 Seth have you played Winds of PLunder?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:45:20 nando [color=#800000] no [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:45:23 Seth there is a board with 4 (3?) zones
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:45:45 seo 4
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:45:46 Seth and you can move 1 or 2 zones in
the direction of the wind, but not 3
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:45:56 Seth yes, it's 4
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:46:07 Seth it's probably the best pirate game
out there
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:46:34 Seth Speaking of Pirates, I watched part
of what's probably my second favorite pirate movie today...
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:46:40 Seth Cutthroat Island
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:46:58 Seth it's not got the best acting, but
it's a pretty good piratey adventure story
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:47:00 nando [color=#800000] people seem to like
blackbeard [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:47:06 nando [color=#800000] but I wasn't
done :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:47:20 nando [color=#800000] but almost [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:47:31 nando [color=#800000] to attack, you roll
2d6 and take the lower [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:50:31 nando [color=#800000] and you get the
value of the card in stories... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:50:52 nando [color=#800000] so a 6 is much,
much, much better than a 1, but much less likely to hit [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:51:25 nando [color=#800000] anyway, half an
idea because I don't know about that part [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:51:34 seo Zzzzz-afk quit (timeout)
00:51:34 seo Zzzzz-afk quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:58:22 Seth neat
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:58:47 Seth so you miss if you roll less than
the number of the card youplayed to attack?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 00:59:49 nando [color=#800000] all of your cards
would be out there, i think [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:00:06 nando [color=#800000] if you rolled
something you didn't have, you'd have to...um...pay...to roll again [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:00:23 seo so most of the time you can go to
any place (as you have at least 50% chance of getting a card that lets you go from
one end to the opposite)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:00:25 nando [color=#800000] I was going to say
that a great pirate movie was The Pirate Movie [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:00:38 nando [color=#800000] but I just looked
it up and it's a 3.8 on imdb [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:00:50 nando [color=#800000] and won ALL kinds
of raspberry awards :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:01:07 nando [color=#800000] I guess being young
makes a difference :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:02:00 nando [color=#800000] well, ideally, you
want to save your "middlin" cards [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:02:08 nando [color=#800000] maybe? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:02:30 nando [color=#800000] because they only
marginally harder than a 1 to hit and worth x3/x4 [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:02:36 seo I guess, yes
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:02:42 nando [color=#800000] meh. needs work.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:04:03 seo I think it's a bit strange that
most of the time you just need a 1 or 2, which quite likely to beat with the dice
roll
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:04:20 seo sounds too easy, if I got it right
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:04:33 nando [color=#800000] it's sort of
intended to be easy [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:04:39 nando [color=#800000] if you want that
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:04:54 nando [color=#800000] I want players
to /mostly/ be able to do what they want [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:05:37 Seth are higher cards always better, in
all situations?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:05:45 Seth so when you draft you just pick the
highest card?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:05:54 nando [color=#800000] I said "in
stories," but that's not exactly right either... [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:06:24 nando [color=#800000] no, to use a 6 for
an attack, for example, you'd have to roll a double 6 [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:06:55 nando [color=#800000] so it might be good
to have one in case you want to move far, or incase you roll a 6, but probably not
good to stock up on them [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:07:21 seo the lower the card the better, as
long as it's high enough for the move you want
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:07:45 nando [color=#800000] it's not strictly
better, I don't think [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:07:58 seo there's wind or something that
makes you ever need a 6?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:07:59 nando [color=#800000] the low cards are
useful for attack, but not that powerful [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:08:26 seo ahh....! so more likely to hit, but
less damage?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:08:35 nando [color=#800000] yes [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:08:52 seo or just less distance?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:09:04 nando [color=#800000] all that [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:09:21 nando [color=#800000] less distance,
easier to hit, less power/damage/whatever [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:10:26 seo now I like it better :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:12:35 nando [color=#800000] the move thing
actually doesn't make sense considering my latest move rules :( [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:13:34 Seth I like the idea of there being wind
- and that making it 'cost' more movement points to move
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:13:43 Seth so if you're going against the wind
you want a 5 or 6
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:13:51 nando [color=#800000] which is: on your
turn, you get 4 "draws" and you can use up a draw to move 1 space or to draw a card
(of which there are 2 or 3 types) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:14:20 nando [color=#800000] wind is probably a
nifty idea for pirates. probably a silly idea for sea monsters :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:14:40 Seth oh, right
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:14:51 Seth you're not a boat with sea monsters
in the water, you are actually a sea monster :)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:14:54 Seth how about cuerrents?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:15:38 seo I like currents
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:15:41 nando [color=#800000] might work [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:15:52 nando [color=#800000] jet stream always
runs north, right? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:16:08 nando [color=#800000] jet stream? is that
air or water? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:16:18 nando [color=#800000] am I smarter than a
5th grader? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:16:26 nando [color=#800000] must be water
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:16:36 nando [color=#800000] I /am/ from
Florida, I should know this [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:18:04 nando [color=#800000] if you just said it
costs more to move south [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:18:17 nando [color=#800000] you could say a
move going north is always 1 space/move [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:18:24 nando [color=#800000] and going south is
triangular [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:18:31 nando [color=#800000] and it would work
out perfectly to 6 :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:19:22 nando [color=#800000] in other words,
starting at the southern most space, you could go up and back with a 3 and a 6
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:20:40 Seth there you go
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:20:46 Seth and boats could come in from the
south
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:20:55 Seth so if you want to hit them early
then you have to spend
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:21:01 nando [color=#800000] boats go left to
right :) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:21:10 Seth also you could automatically
'drift' north 1 space each turn or whatever
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:21:22 Seth left right, but movement is
north/south?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:21:33 nando [color=#800000] yeah [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:21:43 nando [color=#800000] boats go from
colony to europe [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:21:45 Seth <- confused
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:21:49 nando [color=#800000] monsters go up and
down the atlantic [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:21:51 seo makes sense
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:21:53 seo you need to catch the ships as they
pass
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:21:53 Seth what does the board look like?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:22:04 Seth oic
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:22:22 nando [color=#800000] there are 4 "lanes"
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:22:32 nando [color=#800000] only a single fleet
occupies any given lane at a time [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:22:55 nando [color=#800000] so you have
N.Amer/Caribbean/S.Amer/Africa&Orient [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:23:00 nando [color=#800000] from top to bottom
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:23:37 nando [color=#800000] americas on the
left, europe on the right. but really, europe is its own deal, because there are
card discards there and stuff [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:23:58 nando [color=#800000] it's not a detailed
deal. no hexes or anything like that [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:25:31 nando [color=#800000] I'm imagining it
being a very narrow board [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:25:35 Seth so you move up and down the board,
the ships move left-right
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:25:45 Seth andyou try to intercept?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:25:51 nando [color=#800000] with fleet cards on
the left and a separate europe board on the right (if you're looking at it upside
right) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:26:24 Seth So I still have not watched Jumper
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:26:40 Seth and now I'm getting tired
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:26:48 nando [color=#800000] intercepting is not
that big of a deal, I don't think. it's just whether or not its worth it [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:27:03 nando [color=#800000] I should watch
jumper. my friend said that's his favorite book. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:27:24 nando is tired
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:28:07 seo is tired (it's 4:28am here)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:28:19 Seth wtf seo, why are you awake?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:28:28 Seth lemme guess... "working"
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:28:58 seo yepp, magazine.. ugh!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:30:02 seo tomorrow is Sat, I don't need to be
awake as during the week, so I'll keep working until I fall asleep, rest a couple
hours, start again, etc.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:45:52 nando [color=#800000] seth, who is the
dutch publisher? and which games? [/color]
ch_Zzzzz 14/06/2008 01:45:53 seo joins Zzzzz
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:46:13 nando [color=#800000] oh. nevermind.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:49:26 nando [color=#800000] and what happened
to brain freeze? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:49:47 nando [color=#800000] or mind lock... or
what was it? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:54:25 Seth brain freeze
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:54:29 Seth nothing's happened to it
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:54:34 Seth I play it on occasion
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/publisher/4696
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:55:09 Seth that's the publisher
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 01:58:56 nando [color=#800000] ooooh, mix it up
with doyle [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 02:04:09 Seth meh
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 02:04:18 Seth ok, I think I'll watch Jumper now,
then fall asleep
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 02:05:15 seo or you can fall asleep WHILE you
watch Jumper
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 02:06:51 nando [color=#800000] sleep for me, too
[/color]
ch_Zzzzz 14/06/2008 02:15:59 seo seo quit
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 03:50:09 Seth meh
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 03:50:21 Seth that movie [i]was[/i] pretty
lousy :(
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 05:11:27 Seth cocadieta quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 08:51:53 kj kj-Settling
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 08:52:01 kj kj changes his/her nickname to kj-
Settling
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 08:52:14 kj-Settling Saw your gmail note Seth -
grats!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 09:12:13 Zzzzz kj-Settling quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 10:16:24 Gogolski
http://www.boardgamenews.com/index.php/boardgamenews/comments/jess_spanish_game_des
ign_contest_e_2008/
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 10:17:17 Gogolski ...You have to be able to
submit your rules in Spannish though, and I'm not sure seo is going to translate
all BGDF-members' rulebooks....
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 10:21:11 Gogolski Very short deadline too...
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 10:35:04 seo ah, good. I guess I'll have to help
a couple close friends.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 10:39:02 Zzzzz like yourself?
Zzzzz-away
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 11:11:10 seo I'm pretty close to me, yes, but I
don't need help with translation to Spanish. I was thinking more in the lines of
you, Seth, Gog, Scott
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 11:11:37 seo not sure if JC is fond of contests
or not
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 11:12:38 seo I might submit LMN and something
else, maybe our GDS entry, if all keeps going well and we finish it on time :-)
seo-frying-raviolli
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 11:45:19 clearclaw [color=#008080] It seems,
frankly, an excessive burden to put Seo under. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 11:47:44 seo-frying-raviolli seo-frying-
raviolli changes his/her nickname to seo
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 11:48:09 seo if you want, you can share the
prize in case you win :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 14:57:39 Zzzzz-away .,.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 15:02:08 Seth Zzzzz-away quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 15:13:35 seo Hi Matthew
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 15:14:09 Seth MatthewF quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 15:16:44 Zzzzz doh
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 15:21:28 clearclaw [color=#008080] Seo: That
would make better sense if my victory-opportunity weren't minimal. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 15:39:47 Zzzzz any special customer orders going
on these days JC?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 16:33:15 clearclaw [color=#008080] Nope, not yet
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:00:54 seo brb
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:03:16 Gogolski Hi seo! Didn't see you
popping in...
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:04:12 Gogolski You saw my anouncement for
the game desing countest? (or discovered it yourself...)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:10:08 seo saw your link, thanks!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:10:44 Gogolski btw, the zuntzu box is making
progess
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:12:08 seo if you need my translation
services, just ask
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:13:29 Gogolski I don't have anything ready
to submit to a contest... Maybe next year... (But rest assured, I WILL ask if I
have anything I feel worth submitting!)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:14:31 seo you deserve the favour, I wouldn't
have known about the contest but for you
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:14:42 seo I'll prolly send LMN
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:14:56 seo maybe something else too
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:15:12 Gogolski Great! I'm glad I brought it
to attention.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:15:16 seo tell me about the zun-tzu box
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:15:29 Gogolski Do you have a PC or a mac?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:15:49 seo pc
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:15:59 seo and zuntzu already installed
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:16:16 Gogolski Wait a sec...
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:16:25 seo never used it, though, but what
better excuse than your game?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:21:06 seo ..
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:21:14 seo just checking the chat
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:21:33 Gogolski I just sent you the box
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:22:26 Gogolski I sent it from an email I
normally don't use, but my normal account only accepts attachments smaller than 1MB
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:26:15 Gogolski received anything?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:27:37 seo something is downloading
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:28:00 Gogolski huza!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:28:38 Gogolski you're the first (after me)
to see it
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:29:03 seo where should I save it?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:29:18 Gogolski up to you
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:29:37 Gogolski if you double clik it,
zunttzu will open it...
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:29:55 Gogolski (You weren't serious, were
you???)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:31:40 seo I need a ZunTzu update (downloading
now)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:31:57 Gogolski Save it in a temp-folder,
it's not finished anyway....
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:32:28 seo "welcome to ZunTzu. press Escape to
start" <<< how counter intuitive is that?!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:32:46 seo I saved it on a folder with your
name
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:32:49 Gogolski Héhéhéhéhé
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:33:53 seo nice!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:33:55 Gogolski see anything?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:34:11 seo now I only need to learn to play
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:34:18 seo everything seems fine
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:34:28 seo the board is uncomplete, I think
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:34:35 seo or you changed it
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:35:40 Gogolski I changed it, moving is just
going where you want, so I just needed space on the board to put playing pieces, no
tiles or areas
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:35:59 seo ah, good
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:36:35 Gogolski If you want to move to
different places in one turn, you just need to spend food
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:36:44 Gogolski (pink cubes)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:36:45 Zzzzz 43 messages!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:37:17 Gogolski 42 spam, and 1 is my
zuntzubox???
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:37:25 Gogolski kidding
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:37:30 Gogolski 43 spam....
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:37:47 Gogolski I didn't sent you the box...
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:38:01 seo he meant chat lines since he left
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:38:20 Gogolski We've been busy!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:38:49 seo now I need to learn how ZunTzu
works
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:39:12 seo I accidentally turned face up a
blue card, but don't know how
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:39:40 Gogolski left mouse grabs the board
and pans it, right mouse zooms (when moving up and down)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:39:49 Gogolski that's almost it
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:40:07 Gogolski the controls are under help
in the menu
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:40:20 Gogolski (click menu or press esc)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:41:30 Gogolski you double right-clicked the
blue card to turn it up
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:41:59 seo cool
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:42:16 seo I also sent one card to a black
hole or something
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:42:21 seo it just went away
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:42:48 Gogolski It's in the card tab of that
color
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:42:55 seo found it!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:43:06 seo I sent it to my hand
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:43:27 Gogolski You can click the tab, grab
the card and hold it over the board-tab to put it back on the board
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:43:29 Gogolski ok
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:43:36 Gogolski That happens
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:43:40 seo how long did it take to make all
that box?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:44:02 Gogolski In this game, players dont
need the hand-function
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:45:08 Gogolski Most time went into maing the
sheets with the counters and cards and the mask to put around the of the playing
pieces
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:46:05 Gogolski Then you define how zuntzu
punches the pieces (rows/colums and pixel-size of the area that is punched
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:46:49 seo like 20x20 pixels, and the mask
does the rest, right?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:46:52 Gogolski If you open the .ztb filewith
winzip (winrar), you get all the files in the box
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:47:28 seo cool, I'll study it so I can make
some gamebox later
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:47:54 Gogolski Well, If you look at the
gamebox.xml file (open it in notepad or anything else) you see how the punching is
done...
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:48:22 seo yeah, I read the intructions some
time ago
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:48:30 Gogolski It should take you less time,
as you are more proficient with graphic-programs
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:48:36 seo it looked reasonably easy
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:48:47 Gogolski It is!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:48:55 seo yeah, mask generation and conter
sheets should be a snap
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:49:38 seo so, once we have the box, how do we
do to play together?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:49:46 Gogolski I've wanted to try Vassal,
cyberboard, but that is waaaaayyyyy beyond my basic skills....
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:50:02 seo I can't play right now, but we can
check if it works
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:50:38 Gogolski try to connect, I just
started hosting a game (under multiplayer in the menu)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:50:40 Gogolski ip: 78.22.145.102 port: 1805
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:50:48 seo looks like you need to host the
game somewhere
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:52:11 Gogolski Your pointer is blue
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 18:52:41 Gogolski Mine is yellow I guess?
seo-afk
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 19:06:29 Gogolski Great!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 19:29:41 Zzzzz .
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 19:36:47 nando [color=#800000] Seth [/color]
http://www.worthingtongames.com/upcoming.html [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 19:37:10 nando [color=#800000] scroll down to the
"On the drawing board" section [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 19:38:28 Gogolski BR! Nice...
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 20:12:11 seo-afk seo-afk changes his/her
nickname to seo
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 20:12:36 seo Hey! That's what I call Piracy!! ;-
P
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 20:27:19 seo Poor Seth, now he needs to change
his game title.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 20:27:45 seo needs some sleep
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 20:44:09 nando [color=#800000] WOW. Somebody grew
a backbone. [/color]
http://spktruth2power.wordpress.com/2008/06/14/oklahoma-declares-sovereignty/
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 20:51:42 Zzzzz interesting... and because I always
have to, i looked up Sovereignty on BGG and there are no listed games using it. I
find this very interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 20:52:05 Gogolski Do you live in the land of
Oklahoma?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 20:52:55 Zzzzz hums i live in the land down
under... were..
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 20:58:09 nando [color=#800000] Gogolski, I don't
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 20:58:10 Gogolski And I'm off to bed,... it's
5AM here... (in 24 hours, I have to leave for work... Damn!)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 20:58:27 nando [color=#800000] when I read that,
the thought crossed my mind to move there, though [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 20:58:32 Gogolski Laters Peeps!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:03:03 nando Gogolski quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:33:06 clearclaw [color=#008080] lo [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:33:12 cocadieta Evening everyone/anyone?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:33:33 clearclaw [color=#008080] I just
wandered back to the desk [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:33:43 cocadieta Hi J C! My copy of Loko Werks
showed up this week and I am basically dazzled.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:33:52 clearclaw [color=#008080] Doing a bit
of research on Confucious. Suspect it will be quite good. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:34:20 clearclaw [color=#008080] Yeah? I
wouldn't have thought LW dazzling. Neat, a bit clever, curious, but now dazzling.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:34:34 clearclaw [color=#008080] Id is an odd
odd game. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:34:41 clearclaw [color=#008080] s/Id/It is/
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:35:12 cocadieta I'm shocked you like it--
almost enough to recommend you take another look at Puerto Rico.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:35:41 clearclaw [color=#008080] I'm also
shocked I like it. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:35:56 clearclaw [color=#008080] It is the
mid-game I find interesting. The start/end not so much. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:36:23 cocadieta It's dazzling because I am a
huge fan of the genre, and like legal thrillers, it's a sparsely populated field.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:36:39 clearclaw [color=#008080] Thre is
something about carefully positioning for exact cash and turn order a couple turns
out which just tickles me. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:36:48 Seth Zzzzz quit (timeout)
out)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:37:00 clearclaw [color=#008080] Which genre
would you describe this as? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:37:40 clearclaw [color=#008080] While it is
effectively a small form of an economic engine game I don't think that description
does it justice. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:38:10 clearclaw [color=#008080] But that may
be because I almost entirely concentrate on probabilities and competition rather
than the engine. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:38:12 cocadieta 'manipulations' in scare
quotes because I can't think of a better word right now--players don't manipulate
demand in either game but need to manage it.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:38:17 cocadieta Yes. The math is really
satisfying on a few levels. The positioning is, at any kind of distance,
practically identical to Puerto Rico's supply/demand 'manipulations.'
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:38:47 clearclaw [color=#008080] Really?
Huhn. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:38:59 clearclaw [color=#008080] It has been
years since I even looked at PR. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:39:36 clearclaw [color=#008080] I'm not sure
I get your concept with "manipulations" [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:39:53 cocadieta i could also just be wrong,
but the feeling I got was strong.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:40:42 clearclaw [color=#008080] Aside: Give
John a shout and see if he has WoodenShoes&IronMonsters or Landerbahnen in stock.
I strongly suspect he may have single digit spare copies of both. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:40:57 clearclaw looks quizzical.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:41:09 cocadieta Working...
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:42:00 cocadieta Puerto Rico has two markets:
one on the boats and one at the trading house. Demand is limited in both. Players
are competing to supply, to shut others out, and to a certain extent to meld the
point market (boats).
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:42:19 clearclaw [color=#008080] Meld?
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:42:31 cocadieta mold.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:42:53 clearclaw [color=#008080] Ahh.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:43:49 clearclaw [color=#008080] To be frank,
the main things I remember about PR are very strong Right/Left binding and a minor
combinatorials game in how the building powers fit together for efficiency.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:43:54 clearclaw [color=#008080] And no
details at all. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:47:11 cocadieta (I am working with a very
flaky 'net connection, which might explain some of my strange behavior)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:47:39 clearclaw [color=#008080] No worries.
I'm nursing a Mackeson and am mildly distracted. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:48:48 cocadieta Thanks for the tip on
landerbahn and wooden shoes
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:51:30 cocadieta The muscling in Loko (all the
lines about elbows and meat grinding are dead on)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:52:23 clearclaw [color=#008080] Thanks. LW
is certainly not a dandified game. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:53:44 cocadieta the muscling is passive-
aggressive, though--'elbows' is the right word because there are no fists or
knives.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:54:41 clearclaw [color=#008080] There's a
little in the end-game. I've seen a player more than once buy a new factory and
consume the leading 6 and possibly some of the third die as well. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:55:00 clearclaw [color=#008080] eg the Green
5 has rolled a 6/2/1 [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:55:04 cocadieta Taking advantage of your
position in the turn order to ensure a market where you get to sell and your
opponent doesn't is the central problem in both loko and puerto rico.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:55:26 clearclaw [color=#008080] Ahhh! Yes,
that would be a strong parallel [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:56:41 clearclaw [color=#008080] One local
player (one I tend to avoid) described LW as "like arithmetic homework" [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:57:00 cocadieta That's exactly right.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:58:30 Zzzzz math math math
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 21:59:35 cocadieta Generally when I see comments
about a game being about as much fun as doing your taxes, the game moves straight
to my 'buy' list.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:00:01 clearclaw grins. I haven't triggered
on that particular phrase, but I have others.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:00:58 cocadieta Anyway about Puerto Rico:
Yes, the left/right binding is its dominant feature. It's a game about making sure
the player to your left loses.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:01:22 clearclaw [color=#008080] That's the
definition of L/R binding. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:03:52 cocadieta It also, like loko werks, is
a game where the economy rolls along without paying the players any particular
mind. The economies in these games are far stronger than any three to five
individual participants.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:04:23 Zzzzz any comments on Agricola ?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:05:06 cocadieta Agricola is a well-designed
game that is so deeply about conflict avoidance that it's obvious the designer had
some psychological issues to work out.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:05:41 Zzzzz thx
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:05:55 Zzzzz ok how about this, if you HAD to
buy one game right now, what would it be?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:06:03 clearclaw nods rolling economy.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:06:08 cocadieta It's basically supermarket
sweep: build a shopping list that is as different from everyone else's shopping
lists as possible without sacrificing too much efficiency.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:06:41 clearclaw [color=#008080] Zzzz: Do I
have to restrict myself to available games? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:06:59 cocadieta Twist my arm! Wealth of
Nations, anything Winsome makes, 1830. Do I have to pay for it too?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:07:04 Zzzzz maybe I was trying to place a
Thought Hammer order
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:07:20 Zzzzz if I can pre-order it that works
too
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:07:46 clearclaw [color=#008080] My shopping
list looks something like: Symbioz, Terrain Vage, Confucious, 1873 Harzbahn, Char
-- all of which are solidly out of print. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:08:01 clearclaw [color=#008080] Zzzzz: What
sort of games do you like? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:08:10 clearclaw [color=#008080] s/Vage/Vague/
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:08:10 cocadieta Zzzzz, show me your BGG
profile.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:08:16 Zzzzz well I will like anything at this
point
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:08:17 cocadieta If you've got one (?)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:08:26 Zzzzz oh I dont actively use BGG
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:08:53 Zzzzz basically I have no games, and I
want to buy at least $125 worth since it is free shipping
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:09:16 Zzzzz dont laugh too much :
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/user/Zzzzz
http://proximity.fizzlebot.com/ A sort of ultra-cheap/light semi-litmus for test
for grokking gamers. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:09:57 cocadieta What are the last three games
you've loved?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:10:18 Zzzzz *loved*?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:10:44 cocadieta Liked a lot?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:10:45 clearclaw [color=#008080] I'll ask a
slightly different question: Name some games you particularly liked and describe
the aspect you liked most. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:10:46 Zzzzz think of me as the ultimate noob
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:10:55 Zzzzz hmmm
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:10:58 cocadieta Puerto Rico
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:11:14 Zzzzz nah
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:11:27 Zzzzz sadly most of my recent playing is
all playtesting
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:11:52 Zzzzz like I play tested Owner's Choice
for Zev, i sort of liked that but there was no depth
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:12:34 Zzzzz recently I played Vikings, liked it
but seems like after a few more plays it would be boring
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:12:43 cocadieta Why are you interested in
Agricola but not Puerto Rico?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:15:11 clearclaw [color=#008080] What
appealled to you about Vikings? (I've played it BTW) [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:16:56 cocadieta Proximity is not my kind of
game.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:17:15 Zzzzz that i have not played agricoloa
lol
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:17:40 Zzzzz Well I am not sure if it was
appealing or not (vikings)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:18:02 cocadieta I am really liking the new
Bonnie "Prince" Billy album--don't know if there are any Will Oldham fans here but
this is one of his best and most accessible.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:18:03 Zzzzz i have not played any games in so
long, that it might be just that fact that I played Vikings as the first game in
months and months
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:18:11 clearclaw [color=#008080] What did you
like about it? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:18:50 clearclaw [color=#008080] It is hard to
recommend without preference data. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:19:00 Zzzzz Proximity is interesting, though I
tend to like *more* feeling of theme. though I am sort of sucked into finishing the
first game of proximity... so...
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:19:11 Zzzzz yeah I know sorry give me one
minute
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:19:35 clearclaw nods theme. What appeals to
you about theme? Drama? Narrative? Coolness?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:19:46 cocadieta I'm about halfway through
Proximity and just starting to understand how to effectively build walls.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:20:07 cocadieta Generally I'm not great with
spatial stuff.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:21:02 clearclaw [color=#008080] Walls aren't
really nec4essary in Proximity. Its just delta vs risk. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:21:17 Zzzzz i think the issue for me is that
the theme often helps create the atmosphere and feeling of fun
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:21:45 Zzzzz i would prefer more depth/strategy
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:21:50 clearclaw nods context. Do you look
for a story-like sense in your games, or just the backdrop of the neat/cool/fun
world?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:22:12 cocadieta 1856.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:22:17 Zzzzz just the backdrop
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:22:24 cocadieta oh! Never mind!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:22:48 clearclaw [color=#008080] When you say
"depth/strategy", what types of things are you referring to? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:22:58 Zzzzz so depth, a little *useful*
combination of theme and mechanics
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:23:07 clearclaw [color=#008080] Ben: There's
fair argument tht 1856 is broken. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:23:10 Zzzzz planning and choice
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:23:33 clearclaw [color=#008080] So you can
look ahead a few turns and plan options within that space. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:23:40 Zzzzz multiple paths to victory
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:23:56 cocadieta J C--there's an even fairer
argument that in 50 games, once I've discovered where it's broken, I'll have felt I
got my money and time's worth out of the purchase.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:23:57 clearclaw [color=#008080] How different
do the paths have to be? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:24:00 Zzzzz yeah luck = UGH!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:24:06 clearclaw nods Ben.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:24:44 Zzzzz how different, hmmm that is tough
one to answer
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:24:47 clearclaw [color=#008080] Ben: The
problems are two fold: Only one viable basic strategy (throw away first company)
and the power of collusive players overwhelms the rest of the game. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:25:09 cocadieta My big problem, not to fork
the discussion too much, with 1856, is the potential for extra/meta-game
considerations running the show.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:25:11 clearclaw [color=#008080] The second is
the big problem. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:25:19 cocadieta Yeah, in other words,
collusive players.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:25:25 Zzzzz ah well thanks, not sure I know
what I like anymore.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:25:38 clearclaw [color=#008080] Yep, two
players that buy each other's shares can really bork the game. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:25:43 Zzzzz i have not played games in so long,
that I long to actually buy some that I will enjoy playing! lol
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:25:51 clearclaw nods Zzzzz. It is a hard
question.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:26:21 Zzzzz i will just randomly hit the buy
button at thought hammer and settle for what shows up :)
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:26:28 clearclaw [color=#008080] It doesn't
even require overt or planned collusion. I've seen groups evolve to there
organircally. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:26:43 clearclaw [color=#008080] What sort of
weight/length is preferred? [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:26:47 Zzzzz maybe once I get to play about 50
more games I will actually decide what I like
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:27:07 Zzzzz 1-2 hours, though I dont mind
shorter games
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:28:09 Zzzzz i have not played many 2+ hour
games, well except for those 1-2 hour games that go 3 hours because of sub-optimal
play but some people lol
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:28:21 Zzzzz by some*
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:29:24 clearclaw [color=#008080] I'd suggest
then having a quick run through the games listed at the sb-boardgamers weekly
reports. The group is a fairly mixed set of casual and committed gamers, almost
everything is under 2 hours, and the primary focus is on social gaming [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:29:24 Zzzzz anyways thanks, sorry to interrupt.
back to your useful chat!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:29:24 cocadieta For what it's worth, over
about 25 games of 1856 I've seen strategies other than the dominant one do very
well. Further, I don't buy that the mere existence of a dominant strategy is a
problem per se--there is still plenty of decision space within the larger
'strategy.'
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:29:33 Zzzzz hmmm chat died?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sb-boardgamers/
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:30:24 clearclaw nods larger decision space.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:30:46 clearclaw [color=#008080] So I take it
you're faving a good time with LW? [/color]
s/faving/having/ [/color]
Zzzzz-sleep?
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:32:48 cocadieta I'm thrilled with it.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:33:38 cocadieta I think the market
machinations are at least a couple of steps beyond just 'clever.' They're really
something else, just a fabulous use of dice.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:36:38 clearclaw nods. The use of dice is
particularly good.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:37:00 clearclaw [color=#008080] I hope it
gets reprinted. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:37:37 clearclaw [color=#008080] You're likely
to also like Ditchy Intercity -- another game he might have in stock. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:37:49 cocadieta It's almost certainly going
to get reprinted.
s/Ditchy/Dutch/ [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:38:11 cocadieta Although what the game REALLY
needs is a professional printing. I wouldn't say this about most winsome titles but
this game's interface design needs help.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:38:22 clearclaw [color=#008080] I hope it is
one of the game John successfully gets licensed. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:38:46 clearclaw [color=#008080] Oddly I find
the UI in LW just fine. There's very little I'd do to it other than something
about the production chits. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:38:55 cocadieta I agree, even though it's too
mathy for a market that thinks power grid is too mathy.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:39:02 clearclaw [color=#008080] Agreed
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:39:13 clearclaw [color=#008080] Niche game.
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:39:36 cocadieta Disagree. I think that
obsolescence and market behavior (add a die? remove one?) should be graphically
represented on the board.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:40:21 cocadieta It's very clear once you've
played once but that's not good enough for a larger market.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:42:21 clearclaw thinks
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:43:04 clearclaw [color=#008080] I guess so.
Having played once (I've played somewhere between 15 & 20 games now) I don't find
that an impediment. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:43:54 cocadieta Of course not. I also don't
need countless other visual aids from dozens of other games anymore, but many of
them were helpful the first time out.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:44:37 cocadieta I think the market behavior
in Loko is alien enough to be intimidating with no visual cues of any kind in the
game materials.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:45:45 clearclaw [color=#008080] It fell into
place very naturally for me, but then I already had the core concept of a rolling
market down. [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:47:07 cocadieta I'm also someone who thinks
Power Grid should have a market board, to give you an idea of where I'm coming
from.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:48:05 clearclaw [color=#008080] Market board?
[/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:50:01 cocadieta 8 or so cards are on the
market--current and future--at any given time. The ones on top mean one thing, the
ones on the bottom mean another, the deck is going to behave different ways at
different times--there should be a board with spaces for the current and futures
markets, as well as the deck, with graphical and/or textual information about its
behavior.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:50:28 clearclaw [color=#008080] Ahh [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:50:33 clearclaw [color=#008080] The plant
market [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:50:46 cocadieta yes, sorry!
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:55:32 cocadieta Allright, I am off for the
night.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 22:55:35 cocadieta Talk to you later.
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 23:37:52 clearclaw [color=#008080] lo [/color]
ch_SpielTalk! 14/06/2008 23:57:22 nando kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 01:09:41 Seth ..
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 01:10:03 Seth I played Brass, Merchants of
Amsterdam, On the Underground, and about 9 games of Race for the Galaxy today
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 01:10:15 Seth I lost brass by a couple points, I
probably should have won
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 01:10:19 Seth I won OtU
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 01:10:40 Seth and I thought I was doing really
well in MoA, and I ended up about 8 points behind 2nd, who was 1 point behind 1st
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 01:10:55 Seth I was the only one to take a loan,
and I didn't end up needing it at all
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 01:11:09 Seth (that's -8 points for me)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:28:19 seo Seth, are you awake?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:28:29 Seth barely
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:28:38 Seth I [i]just[/i] sat down on my way to
bed
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:28:43 Seth and you said that
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:29:01 Seth its 4:30 am!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:32:53 Seth what;s up?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:34:25 seo so I woke you up? Sorry
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:34:50 seo anyway: did you saw the link about
a game contest in Spain?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:35:03 seo Gogolski posted it yesterday
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:35:08 clearclaw Zzzzz-sleep? quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:36:50 seo heh, I guess you fell bak asleep,
once you turned off your speakers :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:37:05 Seth I saw the link
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:37:14 Seth but it was in spanish, so I didn't
look too close :)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:37:19 Seth :(
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:37:24 Seth and now the link is gone :(
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:38:25 seo
http://www.jugamostodos.org/index.php?
option=com_content&task=view&id=561&Itemid=23
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:38:57 seo if you need a rulebook translated,
just let me know, ok?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:43:03 Seth ok, thanks for the offer!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:43:12 Seth What if I need a web page
translated?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:43:48 Seth in other news...
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:43:56 Seth got a hole in one at Disc Golf
today
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:44:59 Seth maybe google language tools can
help
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:46:07 seo that page?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:46:23 Seth I'm reading it via google
translator
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:46:34 Seth too tired to try and read in
spanish right now...
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:46:41 Seth so you can enter a max of 3 games
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:46:52 Seth can't be published or a winner of a
prev contest
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:47:14 Seth and can be any kind of game except
electronic or computer
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:47:52 Seth looks liiek they have some kind of
prize, and the winner may potentially be published
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:48:08 seo must send summary (up to 250 words)
and rulebook (up to 2500 words) by July 9
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:48:15 Seth your entry has to be in Castillian?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:48:22 Seth hence your kind offer
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:48:31 seo 500 Euros for the winner and 250
for second place
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:48:35 Seth whoa, that's soon
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:48:45 Seth that's a lot of cash
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:48:46 seo yeah
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:48:58 seo I guess it's for a game you have
already
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:49:01 Seth think Reading Railroad would go
over well in Espanol?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:49:25 seo you'll have to change a few things
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:49:54 seo and vowels are much more important
in Spanish, that might change the game quite a bit
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:49:54 seo
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:50:08 Seth um
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:50:14 Seth it says Monday July 9th
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:50:18 Seth July 9th isn't a monday
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:50:25 seo I guess it would need a bit of
tweaking
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:51:03 seo you're right
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:51:14 seo I guess they looked at a June
calendar
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:51:38 seo it's probably monday 7/7
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:52:03 Seth what does this word mean? "accésit
"
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:52:25 Seth I'll be in Seattle the week before
that (coming home july 6)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:53:02 Seth shit
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:53:04 Seth sun is coming up
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:53:10 Seth I better hit the sack
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:53:27 Seth I'll talk to you later! Have fun
working - I hope you're making good progress
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:53:46 seo no idea
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:54:30 seo based on context, I guess it's an
optional prize
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:56:36 seo I thought you might want to submit
WT or one of your other games
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 05:57:00 seo ok, you go to sleep, I'll go to
work
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:30:56 Zzzzz Happy Father's Day
Zzzzz-not-here
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:31:10 seo Thanks!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:31:18 seo Happy Father's Day to you too!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:31:28 Zzzzz-not-here Thank you
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:39:04 Zzzzz-not-here seo : are there any
games you would buy right now (besides the obvious Genji..)?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:42:14 seo EPOCH
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:42:33 seo unless you meant published games?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:43:10 Zzzzz-not-here yeah published. still
trying to complete an order at Thought Hammer. need $125 for free shipping
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:43:14 seo I dunno, lots and none in
particular.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:43:44 seo you mean for me or for you then?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:44:21 Zzzzz-not-here i dunno I just need some
games that might be useful to buy. maybe I will send you one as a present you never
know!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:44:28 seo for me I would say Settlers or
something classic and gateaway
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:44:44 Zzzzz-not-here with all the talk about
it I was thinking Container might be useful to buy
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:44:52 seo so there are more chances to play
with non-gamers
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:45:00 Zzzzz-not-here ah true
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:45:05 seo Container looks great
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:45:13 seo visually, I mean
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:45:28 Zzzzz-not-here yeah I am not sure about
the actual game though
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:45:28 seo since JC likes it so much, I fear
it might be too hard for non-gamers
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:45:42 seo but personally I would love to play
it at least once
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:45:54 Zzzzz-not-here yeah
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:46:11 seo I suppose you already included
Pandemic
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:46:46 Zzzzz-not-here yepp
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:47:17 seo hmmm...
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:48:30 seo Power Grid?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:48:43 seo I've heard good things and bad
things about it
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:48:52 seo I love the box art
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:49:02 seo it's ranked #2 on BGG
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:49:25 Zzzzz-not-here me too, I was thinking
it might be *too much* for non gamers. i guess i need a nice mix
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:49:30 Zzzzz-not-here so I have right now
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:49:41 Zzzzz-not-here Wealth of Nations,
Container, Pandemic, Genji...
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:49:41 seo pretty mathy, I think
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:49:44 seo Brass?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:49:59 Zzzzz-not-here yeah with the way Seth
talks about it I was thinking Brass
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:50:01 seo Seth has been talking a lot about
it lately
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:50:12 seo ehh
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:51:10 seo do you have Tikal? I have it and
love it
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:51:18 seo Gheos too, is very good
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:51:43 Zzzzz-not-here I already bought Gheos,
like the first month it was out
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:51:48 Zzzzz-not-here nope no Tikal
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:51:55 Zzzzz-not-here i have pretty much
nothing
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:52:04 Zzzzz-not-here sadly when you do play
often it is hard to consider games to buy
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:52:28 seo when you DON'T play, you mean
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:52:41 Zzzzz-not-here correct
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:52:51 Zzzzz-not-here but now that I have a
chance to play every thursday, I want games!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:53:38 Zzzzz-not-here for some reason the
idea/theme/name makes me sort of want Colosseum
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:53:51 seo Pitch car? :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:54:18 Zzzzz-not-here Pitch car? no clue what
that is
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:54:46 Zzzzz-not-here 1996 Meeple award
winner!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:56:09 seo http://boardgamegeek.com/game/150
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:56:12 Zzzzz-not-here guess I will consider
games on http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/32295
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:56:22 seo you'll be able to play it with
Grady in a couple years :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:56:37 Zzzzz-not-here true
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:58:27 Zzzzz-not-here maybe King of Siam
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:59:17 seo Stonehege? It's 4 or 5 games in one
:-) http://boardgamegeek.com/game/20436
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 08:59:48 seo 5 games
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 09:00:49 Zzzzz-not-here hmmm maybe i will have
to read about it
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 09:01:39 Zzzzz-not-here thanks for the input,
time for me to head to the Zoo with Grady for fathers day. first outing to the Zoo!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 09:01:56 Zzzzz-not-here talk to you more later i
am sure, I have to work some tonight so I will be back
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 09:02:06 seo you should ask Seth. Just tell him
"I like games X, Y and Z. What should I buy now?"
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 09:02:29 seo Zooloretto!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 09:02:35 Zzzzz-not-here lol
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 09:02:37 seo :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 09:03:47 seo Enjoy the zoo, and the whole day!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 09:04:06 Zzzzz-not-here you too
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 09:04:09 seo I'll be around, working (it's not
Father's day here)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 09:04:45 seo I mean: Father's day here is in
July.
pv_3263f1d41f23865ddce84f9bfdbe2ab5_bf67c1bfb2a69b32211b990a816f76ae 15/06/2008
13:14:08 Gogolski You there?
13:38:23 Seth Gogolski quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:42:49 Seth Dave, get Stone Age
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:42:58 Seth Container is not "too hard for non
gamers"
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:43:03 seo Hi Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:43:06 Seth it's actually pretty simple
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:43:08 Seth Hi
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:43:42 seo good to hear that, now that I will
have a gaming group
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:44:25 seo what about Brass? They plan to play
it next week, or in a fortnight
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:44:42 seo from your constant coments, I'm
pretty eager to try it
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:45:00 seo just downloaded the rules, haven't
looked at them yet
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:46:26 Seth Brass is longer and more
complicated than a lot of games
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:46:40 Seth and learning from the rules is
hard, because the rulebook is aweful
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:46:44 Seth but I like the game a lot
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:46:59 Seth it's not terribly good for playing
with non gamers
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:47:14 Seth do you want me to give you a
layman's description of how to play?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:47:41 seo is it very short? I'm supposed to
be working ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:48:48 Seth Well, here's the general gist...
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:49:01 Seth you have Industries (tiles that you
place on the baord)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:49:05 Seth there are 5 different kinds
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:49:21 Seth each one has different levels
(1/2/3/4)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:49:55 Seth when you build them, you have to
build the lowest level one you have left (you stack them lowest to highest and you
build off the top of your stacks)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:50:14 Seth the point is to build them, then
[i]flip[/i] them - they each flip a different way
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:51:05 Seth Ironwroks and Coal Mines flip by
having all their Iron/Coal used. Cottom Mills and Ports flip by selling cotton, and
Shipyards flip immediately
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:51:32 Seth that's the meat of the game
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:51:43 Seth you want to get stuff on the board
and then flip it
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:54:28 Seth the trick is that there are limited
spots for these things, and you are limited in where you can put them by cards in
hand
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:54:31 seo And it took them 12 pages full of
tight text to explain that? :-P
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:54:35 Seth and they all cost money.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:54:52 Seth when they flip, you get some income
boost on the income track
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:55:19 Seth and once they've been flipped, they
will be worth points in the scoring phases (there are 2 scoring phases)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:56:36 Seth each round everyone first gets
income, then each player get 2 actions. For each action you spend a card, usually
it doesn't matter which card you spend - it's just to show you did an action. Then
you draw 2 cards to replace them
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:57:50 Seth actions are: Take a Loan, Build a
Canal (link between cities on board), Develop (discard tiles off the top of your
stacks so you can build a better higher level one), Sell Cotton (flipping a MIll
and maybe a port), or Build Industry
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:58:41 Seth Build Industry is the trickiest
action, rules wise. It requires a specific card... there are 3 ways to do it.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:59:02 Seth The cards you have are in 2 types,
Maps and Pictures (of industries)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 13:59:38 Seth Map card - play any industry in the
city indicated by the map card. Each city has slots for particular industries.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:00:00 Seth Picture card - play the pictured
industry in any city [i]that is on your personal network[/i]
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:00:12 Seth (that means you have to build
canals to the city first)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:00:57 Seth Combine Actions - you can spend
[i]any[/i] 2 cards to build any industry in any city, regardless of your network
(still has to follow other rules though). This uses up both of your actions for the
turn.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:01:16 Seth That's about all I have to say
about Brass. You now know how to play
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:01:22 Seth there are some specifics
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:01:36 Seth you score for flipped buildings and
for Canals/Rail links
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:02:00 Seth Some buildings/actions eat up Coal
or IRon which has to come from the board
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:02:25 Seth Coal has to be physically connected
(by anyone's rails/canals) to where it's being used, Iron teleports
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:02:44 clearclaw0 The rules could be done much
better. At one point in the rules Martin states that he's knows they are
confusing, but they are complicated and he had no better way
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:03:12 Seth that's because when it comes to
writing rles, he's terrible.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:03:23 Seth they could definitely have been
done better
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:04:17 Seth and in fact have:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/30109/Brass_Restructured_Rules_v1.pdf
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:04:19 clearclaw0 clearclaw0 changes his/her
nickname to clearclaw
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:06:04 clearclaw Yum: kale, capers and
vinagrette.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:08:34 seo Thanks Seth.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:26:28 clearclaw ponders farkle.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:28:40 Seth So QWG wrote back
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:28:45 Seth said they were interested in seeing
rules and protos for A41, TP and Homesteaders
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:29:12 Seth I told hem TP and HS were under
review by other publishers, but I sent them rules and stuff (board pic, player aid)
for All For One
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:29:18 Seth and if they want a prototype I'll
send that
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:29:31 Seth which means now I have to mail Zev
and ask him to return my prototype
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 14:30:43 Seth Zzzzz-not-here quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 15:26:36 seo ..
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 15:34:49 seo glad to hear you're making progress
qith QWG
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 15:35:08 seo but you have to promise you won't
go away once you're published
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 15:59:36 seo I hate myself for no having
finished the nice A41 proto :-(
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 16:36:07 Zzzzz sup sup
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 16:37:38 Zzzzz seth do you happen to know if the
free shipping at thought hammer *works* if you have preorder items as part of your
order of $125?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 16:45:56 seo it does, but you have to pay the
$500 preorder waiver
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 16:58:18 Seth is it father;s day today?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:01:19 seo it is there, not here
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:01:29 seo you didn't call your dad yet?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:01:51 Seth I just did
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:01:56 Seth I'm going to take him out to dinner
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:02:05 Seth sadly, this means no frisbee
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:02:24 Seth if I were smart I would have taken
him to lunch so I could hav gone to frisbee this afternoon :/
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:02:30 Seth too bad I forgot :(
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:03:41 seo at least you recalled it today
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:07:24 Zzzzz ugh chat is not happy for me lately
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:08:28 Zzzzz so how is this lineup for game
order : Pandemic, Genji, Brass, Containers, Wealth of Nations...
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:10:15 Zzzzz not sure about Brass $60 is so
rough of a cost
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:31:36 Seth brass is an investemnt in time too
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:31:50 Seth you really have to play it like 2
or 3 times before you can really [i]play[/i] it
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:32:31 clearclaw I'd drop WoN for something a
little more solid.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:33:43 clearclaw Damn it, I just want to buy
some earhooks, not create a damn account! Lemmee checkout without creating an
account...
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:35:19 Zzzzz ok... so Brass dropped. what other
items on the MCA list should I consider?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:35:24 clearclaw goes off to find an online
vender that doesn't require accunt creation. Anyonymous buying yeah!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:35:48 Zzzzz hehe
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:36:27 clearclaw Brass is a fine game, but
yeah, given your play rate that might be a stretch.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:36:55 Zzzzz well hopefully I will be at least
playing once a week now. of course not always the same games
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:37:02 clearclaw Glory to Rome and Race for
the Galaxy are of course currently hot.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:37:15 clearclaw Both seem to be fine examples
of their types of game.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:37:43 clearclaw If you want to pick the one
more likely to not already be owned by your friends, got for GtR.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:39:16 clearclaw Given your position Power
Grid is probably a safe bet
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:39:34 clearclaw Though it seems to be a pre-
order.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:39:43 clearclaw I also seem to be
recommending games I don't like...
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:42:13 Zzzzz lol yeah it looks like most of the
games I am ordering are pre-orders
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:42:54 Zzzzz well give me a game you like and I
will consider it. I need to try out *many* games so I can find my player self
again!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:43:35 clearclaw Most of teh games I like most
are very small press and generally unavailable.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:46:42 clearclaw However, looking through my
recent play history: Wayfinder, Sticheln, David&Goliath, Dolmengotter, King of
Siam, Billabong, Greentown, Medieval Merchant, Through the Desert
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:47:06 clearclaw Gipsy King is also
surprisingly good for a filler.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:50:44 Zzzzz I considered King of Siam, any
personal opinions/info on that game?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:51:34 clearclaw I like it quite a bit. It is
an odd game. It is a massive and strongly analystical game of chicken.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:52:05 clearclaw Playes well with 2, 3 and 4 ,
and differently with each player count. People tend to latch on to one player
count as their favourite however.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:53:02 Zzzzz hmmm i was not expecting *game of
chicken*.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:53:08 clearclaw For a smallgame it delivers a
lotof oomph.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:54:41 clearclaw It is chicken in that each
player is walking the fence. They want one of the sides they invest in to win, but
the more they invest in it the weaker that side is. Combine that with a very very
small number of actions per game per player (8), and there's a whole lot of dancing
around will-X-player-spend-action-Y-now-or-not?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:55:16 Zzzzz sounds interesting enough
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:55:43 clearclaw Very tight. Victories are
almost invariably by tiny margins. Area influence, perfect information, yada yada
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:55:51 clearclaw See bGG for more details.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:56:31 clearclaw No, I am not going to pay $17
to ship a letter-sized bit of $10 plastic to me.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 17:56:33 Zzzzz yeah I was looking at it
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:02:46 Zzzzz everything is pre-order!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:08:03 clearclaw Ahhh, $1.30 S&H for an
evelope is daylight robbery, but it is enough less than $17 S&H that I'll
grudgingly accept it.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:08:40 clearclaw unno if Seth has played KoS.
You might ask him abou tit.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:22:12 Seth I played KoS once
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:22:33 Zzzzz once...
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:25:02 Seth i only played it 22
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:25:04 Seth er 2p
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:25:12 Seth it was alright
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:25:32 Seth I don't like 2p games usually, so I
didn't love it - but I bet it would be way different with 3
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:25:46 Seth I don't love the idea of 4 with
that game because I htink it means teams
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:25:52 Seth You should get Stone Age
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:26:00 Seth maybe Zooloretto/Aquaretto
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:26:05 Seth You might like Thebes
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:26:12 Seth lots of people seem to
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:26:37 Seth I like the classics... Princes of
Florence, Traders of Genoa, Puerto Rico, Goa
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:26:58 Seth Notre Damne is alright, I think In
the Year of the Dragon is better
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:29:14 Zzzzz yeah thebes seemd interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:29:19 Zzzzz seemed*
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:30:07 Seth WoN sounds alright to me, I know JC
says it's hardly a game...
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:30:21 Seth but since it's a pre-order I think
you should get something else
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:30:51 Seth I gotta go to dinner with Dad
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:30:52 Seth I'll ttyl
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:52:52 clearclaw WoN with 4P is troubled. 5P
is going to be a different affair.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:53:20 clearclaw King of Siam is partnerships
with 4P. For me that makes it the preferred player count.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:54:03 clearclaw Zooloretto/Aquaretto are
dressed up Coloretto. If that appeals then go for one of them. That doesn't
appeal to me at all.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 18:54:29 clearclaw Thebes is very themetic, or
so I'm told, and very very random. That wrote it out of consideration for me.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:00:37 Zzzzz random... like rolling the dice
very very random?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:01:17 clearclaw Like pulling tiles from a bag
where only 1/N is actually anything useful and the rest are "dirt"
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:02:04 Zzzzz and oddly enough that sounds even
more horrible than rolling dice
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:02:42 clearclaw agrees.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:03:22 Zzzzz wonders if buying $125 worth of
games is even possible!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:19:16 seo Maybe you can buy one huge game for
$125 :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:20:44 Zzzzz good idea!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:27:55 Zzzzz yeah I did my estimated taxes due
tomorrow! $1000 gone to THE MAN!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:28:38 seo are games deductible?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:29:18 Zzzzz maybe... I can technically deduct
them as research for Infamous Games, but I dont do that because Infamous Games is
basically dead
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:30:49 seo maybe $1000 in games can help it
resucitate
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:32:00 seo are you buying from gateplay.com?
They have some Gateaway bundles for over $100
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:32:06 Zzzzz another good idea
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:32:19 Zzzzz no I was going with thought hammer
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:32:31 Zzzzz well here is my issue, I know I
want Pandemic and Genji
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:32:48 Zzzzz and i think I want container
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:33:12 clearclaw Container is good.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:33:16 Zzzzz and i think I want wealth of
nations (even though sources tell me that I am wasting money, which I might be but
for some reason the game intrigues me)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:33:40 clearclaw Ubongo is popular locally.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:33:45 Zzzzz something about the hex pieces make
we want to se it in action
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:34:15 Zzzzz and i would buy vikings but a
person the gaming group already has it, so why buy it...
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:34:39 clearclaw Wings of War is a non-stop
local hit.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:34:39 Zzzzz so basically I was not looking for
a bundle of games, but basically those 3-4 with another one or two to hit $125
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:34:56 clearclaw I stopped bringing it after
~3 months of continuous play.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:35:42 clearclaw But you have to like that
sort of slightly random very position double-guessing thing.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:35:49 clearclaw does.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:35:57 clearclaw s/position/positional/
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:36:30 clearclaw But that may have more to do
with the fact that I'm good at it.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:36:32 Zzzzz the other issue I have is that the
games I do want, are either waiting restock/reprint or still yet to be released. so
I am basically in a holding pattern i think
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 19:57:31 Zzzzz needs to work on GDS... too lazy...
must work.... must work on work, must work on everything, wants to play games!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:07:17 seo I've worked so much this weekend
that I haven't even thought anything else about the GDS
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:08:08 seo I guess we should start focusing on
the cards themselves now, and see if we need anything else added or adjusted about
the general idea
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:08:31 seo what do you think?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:09:29 Zzzzz i think if we just mock up a few
cards as examples that would be good. and maybe just toss together an initial rough
draft of the rules/ideas
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:09:44 Zzzzz i have not thought about it anymore
either
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:09:57 Zzzzz i can spend some time tomorrow to
rough up our rules
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:10:08 Zzzzz we can email changes/thoughts
beyond that
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:10:35 Zzzzz as for cards/graphics we can deal
with that once we feel there is actually a game to mock up graphics for
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:10:53 seo I'm going to have a complicated day
tomorrow until 6:00pm (local time, I guess it's 4:00 for you)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:11:48 Zzzzz yeah i will too, maybe tomorrow
night, maybe
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:11:49 Zzzzz no pressure
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:11:51 seo it's 11:11pm now
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:11:51 Zzzzz i will send email if I get
something done and we can go from there
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:12:54 seo is it 9:00 for you?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:14:10 seo oh, it's 10:14pm, just 1 hour diff.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:15:02 seo so, NY time, tomorrow from 5:00 to
6:30pm I'll have some free time to work on the GDS :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:15:15 Zzzzz my chat flaked out there for a
minute
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:15:27 seo and chat access from the notebook
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:15:35 Zzzzz sure, like I said no pressure
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:15:40 seo if you're around, we can exchange
what we have by then
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:15:42 Zzzzz if we dont get it done, ah well
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:15:50 Zzzzz sure
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:15:56 seo if not, I'll work on it and mail
you
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:16:02 Zzzzz i dont want this to pressure either
of us
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:16:22 Zzzzz i think our core idea is good, we
just need to *touch* it up a little bit and submit it.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:16:46 seo I'll be on the chat most of the day
anyway, but at some point in tthe afternoon the magazine client will come and I'll
be AFChat
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:16:50 Zzzzz i almost like our core idea enough
to think about using it for some other game
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:17:06 Zzzzz ugh another thunder storm!!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:17:19 seo most of the games I've worked on
came from GDSs
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:17:21 Zzzzz hopefully i dont lose power i have
work to do before I go to bed
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:18:04 cocadieta evening.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:18:27 Zzzzz ponders the chaotic theory behind
the momentum of a Viking ship
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:18:34 Zzzzz hello
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:19:18 seo I think we're good and our idea is
strong. I'll try to mock up what I have in mind for the cards to see what you
think, and we can both try to write down the rules and then C&P from both version
to get the best of both.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:19:32 Zzzzz sure thing
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:19:41 seo Hi cocadieta
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:20:00 seo Do you speak Spanish?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:20:18 cocadieta I do not.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:20:26 cocadieta Not much, anyway.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:20:30 Zzzzz che
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:20:41 seo :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:20:49 seo That's Argentinian!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:21:02 Zzzzz ok time for me to head out
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:21:05 seo We use "che" too, around here
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:21:12 seo ok, byt
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:21:19 seo bye*
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:21:29 Zzzzz ciao
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:21:42 cocadieta au revoir
Zzzzz-work-sleep
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 20:53:47 clearclaw Lo Ben
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 21:07:40 seo adión amigos
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 21:07:57 seo I can't type even in spanish! :-P
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 21:08:01 clearclaw Carbonere tonight.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 21:08:13 seo adiós!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 21:24:26 Zzzzz-work-sleep kj quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:09:10 Zzzzz-work-sleep cocadieta quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:14:48 cocadieta I got a note back from John
Bohrer--Riding Through England is mine if I want it.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:15:14 cocadieta Looking forward to this one--
actually, Riding Through England was the one I was most interested in because of
its length.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:50:10 clearclaw I've a trade offer for RtE in
exchange for Dutch Intercity. Not sure I'll accept. To me RtE seems the least
interesting of the set based on available data (ie CortxBomb).
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:50:44 clearclaw RtE is the only thing John
has left?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:52:44 clearclaw eating.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:53:54 clearclaw Okay, not really Carbonera.
I cheated. Penne, bacon (drained, really just ham-ish bacon), tomatoes, rosemary.
Oooo is it good.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:56:09 cocadieta RtE seems the longest and
most complex of the set. Sounds like a lovely dinner.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:58:15 clearclaw Landerbahnen + Exp may be
longer, but it doesn't have the odd end-game
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:58:16 cocadieta His note to me implied that
he had one of each game, that one went to you and one went to someone whose name I
forget--Ricky?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:58:44 cocadieta Maybe the Richard who I've
noticed lately and who has been posting scans of lots of Winsome and 1825 material?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:58:58 clearclaw He said he's have 3
Landerbahnens+Exp
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:59:26 clearclaw Dewsbury?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 22:59:41 cocadieta Who knows. Maybe he does,
maybe he doesn't.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:00:10 clearclaw true
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:00:59 cocadieta I'll be happy for a copy of
Riding though, either way. The length is very appealing to me largely because I'm
always looking for long games. I don't have enough of them--I don't think there ARE
enough of them.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:01:38 clearclaw Other than the 18xx...
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:02:26 cocadieta That second sentence was
maybe not so well-edited. 'I'm always looking for long games' is enough.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:02:53 cocadieta Yeah, other than the 18xx,
Dutch Dutch Revolution, and Die Macher--which I don't like a whole lot.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:03:47 clearclaw And a few Phil Eklund games.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:04:06 cocadieta That's right, whose games I
haven't had the chance to play yet.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:04:58 cocadieta Even though I know they're
not really up my alley, I'm still looking forward to playing American Megafauna and
the new evolution one.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:07:09 clearclaw I recently picked up Lords of
the Spanish Main. If things go according to play (ha!) I'll play it on Weds with a
very experienced teacher, and then again at the Saturday gamesday, and again on
Monday, Sadly everything depends on the first one on Weds, and that's the most
iffy.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:07:11 cocadieta Richard Schneible is the one
who's been publishing all the photos/scans
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:07:27 clearclaw Ahh. I hadn't noticed that.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:07:31 clearclaw looks
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:10:19 cocadieta I found them eyebrow-raising,
but what do I know.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:11:15 clearclaw Distracted replying to
Dearlove. Now looking.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:11:52 clearclaw Oh, thorndor! Yeah, he kinda
been following me.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:12:11 cocadieta I think he must be a personal
friend of john's.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:14:28 clearclaw I doubt he would have bought
Pampas from me if so
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:15:33 cocadieta Huh.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/340983 Whoa!
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:16:27 cocadieta I look at that photo with
pure envy; my set arrived with 19 dice.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:16:35 clearclaw Them dice, they're
so...dicey!
15/06/2008 23:17:09 clearclaw They're about as cheap as you can get for
non-IDed dice. Walmart and Target sell very similar dice from Bell or such for
about $2/6.
15/06/2008 23:17:45 clearclaw I'm surprised that John let him get away
with the LW full-scan
15/06/2008 23:17:57 cocadieta Did you see that Roman die Christie's was
auctioning?
15/06/2008 23:18:03 clearclaw http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/341393
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:18:51 cocadieta Did you see that Roman die
Christie's was auctioning?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:19:03 clearclaw No. Where?
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:19:23 clearclaw I'm surprised that John let
him post that LW full-board scan.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:19:25 cocadieta
http://www.christies.com/Lotfinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4205385
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:19:32 cocadieta Such a fabulous piece.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:20:34 clearclaw Very much so
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:20:38 cocadieta The auction was five years
ago but it's been making the rounds on a few mailing lists this week.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:23:31 cocadieta I'm surprised about the Loko
scan too--that was the eyebrow-raising submission for me. A lot of the Wabash
material has been surprising too.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:24:05 clearclaw It may also be that John has
been asking and BGG refusing.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:24:19 cocadieta The material hasn't, but the
lack of response has. At this point it would be a snap to make your own WC set from
material on BGG.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:25:08 cocadieta I'm personally close with a
lot of BGG brass and would have heard about it if John was grousing.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/279698?size=original Yep, drawing a board
from here would be child's play.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:27:28 cocadieta On the other thing, I think
there's a real difference between a photo like that and the one of the Loko board.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:28:29 cocadieta I'd have to redraw the WC map
in order to get a playable board. The Loko scan I'd just even out in photoshop and
print (45 seconds' work?)
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/257626?size=original Whoa, that Penn
player got away with murder.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:29:10 clearclaw Agreed (pics)
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:30:56 cocadieta There's a difference between
making homemade copies of games because you can't get them any other way, and doing
it because it's easy. I think that discouraging the former is generally a mistake.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:31:34 clearclaw I like to see some barrier,
but not an inflexible one.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:32:15 cocadieta That was a 5-player game and
the Penn was split evenly between three players. Looks like everyone was doing
their job to me.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:32:27 cocadieta Then again I have very little
experience with WC 5-handed.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:32:37 clearclaw either
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:34:00 cocadieta On the other hand, one cap,
one development, and two expands...
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:34:48 cocadieta the fifth dividend and no
stock sold out but the penn. I never did pay much attention to that photo. Strange
game.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:35:05 clearclaw yeah
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:42:15 clearclaw Also looking forward to
receiving Kings&Castles. Looks interesting. Its also part of a semi-deliberate
left turn in my gaming preferences.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:42:56 cocadieta I don't know anything about
that one.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:43:20 cocadieta There's nothing about it on
BGG.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:44:38 cocadieta You're looking to play more
fantasy wargames with simultaneous action selection? Whatever floats your boat!
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/771 Players take turns to conquer as many
regions as possible with their own and opponents forces - an intriguing mechanic -
then decide whether to tax the hard workong peasants or not.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:46:42 cocadieta Oh! That's 20 years later
than the kings and castles i found.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:46:49 clearclaw No, I'm looking to re-
evaluate aspects of the field that I've previously shied away from.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:51:30 cocadieta Yikes. Not for me, but I can
see where you'd like it--you have more of a taste for spatial abstracts than I do.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:52:34 clearclaw nods. I've minor hope it
would off what Antike failed to. I can also see some of the dregs of two local
groups getting quite excited over it.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:52:40 clearclaw s/off/offer/
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:54:39 cocadieta In general and with the
notable exception of the 18xxs (and maybe others), the smaller a spatial component
a game has, the better.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/27574 Ooops, forgot to mention to Zzzzz. These
are the two upcoming games (that actually have publishers) at the top of my
interest list.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:55:16 clearclaw Ahh, I've a native bent for
packing structures and network manipulations.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:56:03 clearclaw There's a guy called Paul (?)
we played a8XX with at Kublacon. Dead black blind.. Played LW too. He's quite
good. A little slow, which is forgiveable, but not a dull blade.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:56:10 cocadieta Strangely 18xx is the
reverse. I am very keen on the maps, networks, graphs, my least favorite map being
1825 Unit 2's.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:56:37 clearclaw The mess in the middle and
just noerth-west can be interesting.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:56:42 cocadieta 1825 Unit 2's game has no
*real* spatial component. It's all in the numbers one layer above the map.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:57:04 clearclaw 3-4 tiles dictate the fate of
Unit 2.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:57:43 cocadieta I find that 'mess' just a
mess, and not that interesting spatially. Exactly--it's about 3-4 tiles, which
means it's about numbers, which means it's a stock game.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:58:01 clearclaw Well, that's after I think ~4
plays.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:58:08 clearclaw Yeah, an investment timing
game.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:58:53 clearclaw And you have to know the tile
progression really well. I've done quad-jumps three times in a row on that map.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:58:55 cocadieta I fel the same way after 2
plays. I'd play it again, sure--I like all of them--but the other two units have a
lot more going on spatially.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:59:14 clearclaw I found Unit 3 far less
interesting.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:59:34 clearclaw ObNote: I've only played Unit
2 2P.
ch_SpielTalk! 15/06/2008 23:59:59 cocadieta Yeah, I know you did. I'm
happy that we've found Unit 3 great with 2.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:00:32 cocadieta I played unit 2 once with 2
and twice with 3. It was more or less the same game each time.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:01:00 clearclaw huhn
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:05:36 cocadieta David Lynch.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:05:37 cocadieta Are you a Lynch fan?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:06:29 clearclaw Minorly. Rarely ever watch
movies/TV/etc
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:07:12 cocadieta His latest movie, Inland
Empire, is extraordinary.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:09:01 clearclaw How so?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:09:01 cocadieta I've been watching it
regularly since it first showed in town in winter 2006. It gets better each time
through. Just an amazing piece of work.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:10:05 clearclaw I see 1-3 movies a year on a
good year.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:10:59 cocadieta I like 1-3 movies a year on a
good year. Inland Empire was my favorite movie of 2006 and 2007, and is probably my
favorite movie of 2008.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:12:25 clearclaw http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=_DlYCvxvPZY I miss voices like that of the first speaker. That's what I grew up
with.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:14:34 cocadieta jeremy irons. one of our best
actors who will either apparently do anything or just needs work.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:16:53 cocadieta That's enough from me for
tonight. If you haven't seen Inland Empire by the next time I'm around, I'll make
sure to continue pitching it.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:17:00 cocadieta See you around.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:17:06 clearclaw The last movies I was
particularly impressed with, in no particular order, were: Hanging Rock, Enchanted
April, Quiet Earth, Fiddler on the Roof (with Topov), Secondhand Lions, The Piano
etc
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:17:51 cocadieta Yes?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:17:52 clearclaw Ohh, and of course Being
There, possibly my favourite movie of all.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:17:54 cocadieta Picnic at hanging rock.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:18:04 clearclaw Err, yeah.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:18:19 cocadieta Just making sure. One of the
best movies ever!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:18:43 clearclaw Great movie. The memory of
it still affects me.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:18:56 clearclaw saw it when he was about 8 or
9.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:19:09 cocadieta I think the only movie
concerning pianos I was impressed with is The Piano Teacher.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:19:46 clearclaw Don't know that one.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:23:06 cocadieta Sort of a French sex thriller
without the thrills, without the sex, and with a lot of piano playing. Directed by
Michael Haneke (his only good film as far as I'm concerned) and starring the
gorgeous and amazing Isabelle Huppert
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:24:41 cocadieta Being There is a great pick
for favorite movie ever. Mine is Brazil. I thought it was invincible, but Inland
Empire is making a run.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:26:45 clearclaw I liked Brazil, perhaps not
enough for all time, but enough to note strongly.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:27:18 clearclaw Also impressed with
Mirrormask, but some of that may be romantic nostalgia.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:28:17 cocadieta Right--later.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:28:17 clearclaw used to live a couple blocks
from Neil Gaiman and recognises several of the motifs.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:38:45 Seth chat had died
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:38:56 Seth last thing I saw was a link to a
pic of 20 dice
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 00:40:10 Seth thinks he ate too damn much this
weekend
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 01:30:12 Seth So I sent All For One info to QWG
games
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 01:30:29 Seth and I asked Zev to return the
prototype so I can send it to them if they want to see it
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 01:30:53 Seth I guess we'll see how that goes
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 01:32:14 Seth perhaps I should get to sleep and
try to get to work at a reasonable hour tomorrow...
sej-sleep
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 06:37:30 sej-sleep Zzzzz-yepp-working quit
(timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:02:37 Zzzzz cocadieta quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:08:26 Zzzzz hey
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:08:50 seo Dave: ignore the files I added to
the Dropbox folder
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:09:02 Zzzzz ummm ok
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:09:17 seo it's my Corel file and your las
email, so I can access them this afternoon
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:09:57 Zzzzz ok
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:10:49 seo I'm going to keep al my files
there, so you might find some Word docs in Spanish soon, too :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:10:57 seo all*
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:12:13 Zzzzz sure
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:12:21 Zzzzz whatever you need/want!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:12:36 seo you're easy to work with!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:13:31 seo I'm likely to be hungry by then,
can you upload a piece of chocolate cake for me?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:14:05 seo and a chocolate-peanut butter milk
shake from Johnny Rockets?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:14:17 Zzzzz sure thing!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:14:41 seo why can't I get a chocolate-peanut
butter milk shake here?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:15:11 seo I'm gonna miss them this July
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:15:15 Zzzzz my guess is that like many other
cultures chocolate + peanut butter = *@#YR(*)FOIN#!FIHN#FKNNFLK! NO!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:16:06 Zzzzz i find that many outside the US
feel that that combination is not acceptable
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:16:07 Zzzzz or desires
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:16:08 Zzzzz desired*
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:16:14 seo they don't deserve to be called
"cultures" then :-P
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:16:17 Zzzzz afk a minute
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:29:19 seo stawbery milkshake is for little
girls!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:30:18 seo ahh.. I have a 5 page word doc and
11 photos, and I'm supposed to fit that in 2 pages?!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:31:11 seo Ha! There goes the monkey back to
the magazine people.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:33:26 doho123 5 pages and 11 photos seems a
little overkill for a GDS entry
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:36:16 Zzzzz haha!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:36:27 Zzzzz well we might be over the word
limit but ah well!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:51:01 Zzzzz open question: what mechanics are
most present within the last year? (i am asking since I want to work on a new game
which i would like to avoid the more recent common used mechanics)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:51:48 seo fjords
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:52:15 seo all fjord-related mechanics have
been way oveused lately
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:52:45 Zzzzz :(
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:53:10 Zzzzz though that is not the game I was
thinking about working on
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:53:32 seo bah...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:53:47 doho123 colored cube production are
pretty oveused.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 07:59:55 seo you mean our Colored Cube
Production Circus GDS entry will be too obvious?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:00:44 Zzzzz well a circus on a fjord really
gave it away already seo, the colored cube production just amplifies our identity!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:01:26 seo I didn't mention it is card-
driven...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:02:04 Zzzzz oh.. ok
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:05:22 doho123 should I bother responding
top a guy who wants me to make and send him a "durable version of PocketCiv" for
him to review?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:05:49 Zzzzz is the guy Tom Vasal?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:05:59 seo is he reknown? Tom Vassel or
someone like him?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:06:12 Zzzzz :P
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:06:13 doho123 "I take board games with me
on long solo ocean kayak trips and write the occasional article for board gaming
venues"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:06:39 Zzzzz hmmm ask him wnat *venues*
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:06:47 seo so he wants a water-resistant
proto?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:07:04 Zzzzz if he cannot name any note worthy
places, why bother making him a special proto?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:07:04 doho123 I guess it's this guy:
http://www.thegamesjournal.com/articles/DestinationGaming.shtml
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:08:00 Zzzzz tough call
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:08:07 doho123 I'm not quite sure why the
guy can't rpintout and cut his own 16 cards and laminate them.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:08:14 Zzzzz if you have the time, what could it
hurt?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:08:23 Zzzzz another good point lol
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:08:25 doho123 since I sure he winds up
doing that kind of thing anyway?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:09:33 doho123 "long solo ocean kayaking"
doesn't sound like a hobby to me, more like torture
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:10:19 doho123 trapped on a tiny, tiny boat
bobbing around int he ocean for days by yourself....
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:10:44 doho123 seems like it's just one step
removed from being a shipwreck survivor
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:11:29 Zzzzz agreed!
http://www.lyonexpeditions.com/solokayaking.html
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:15:46 doho123 from what I can tell, the
"Solo ocean kayak" thing is a hobby so small, only he does it
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:17:54 seo according to Google, there's also a
guy in Iceland who does it :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:21:35 seo I guess the problem is that if you
want to do "Solo ocean kayak" you don't want anyone around!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:21:58 doho123 "STAY AWAY FROM MY
ISOLATIONIST HOBBY!"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:24:57 Zzzzz or maybe the *others* never make it
back alive to tell their tales of Solo Ocean Kayaking!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:26:00 seo accidents?... I doubt it
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:35:10 Zzzzz Solo Ocean Kayker dies to natural
causes...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:45:00 Gogolski Solo ocean pedaller...
http://www.pedaltheocean.com/resources/
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:46:06 doho123 the names of those books are
sort of humorous in a "wide spectrum" way
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:46:50 doho123 nothing like going from "Sea
of Dreams" to "A Voyage for Madmen" and "Godforsaken Sea"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:47:07 Gogolski The windsurfing woman has
apparently crossed quite a few oceans....
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:47:51 doho123 oh that's cheating, she's
windsurfing ON A BOAT
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:48:14 doho123 when I think of windsurfing,
I'm thinking of a surfboard
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 08:48:39 Gogolski Yeah, I also expected her to
stay upright on a plank for the entire voyage....
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:29:01 dnjkirk Gentlemen
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:30:29 dnjkirk one month (and a day) to
liftoff
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:30:36 dnjkirk so much crap to do
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:39:14 Zzzzz whoa...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:39:24 Zzzzz and you still have time to chat! ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:39:40 Zzzzz so is it nonstop packing?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:40:14 doho123 packing up the 1000 Genji
boxes in his garage
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:40:48 sej-sleep I should go to work!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:40:56 sej-sleep sej-sleep changes his/her
nickname to sej-awake
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:41:01 Zzzzz yeah go to work !!!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:41:28 dnjkirk hehehe
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:41:34 sej-awake 4 out of 6 messages in my
Yahoo inbox were spam :(
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:41:43 dnjkirk No the packing is done by
others in the days before the move
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:41:45 doho123 spasms!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:41:52 dnjkirk we can't get insurance for
our stuff otherwise
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:44:51 sej-awake see you in a few...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:45:40 Zzzzz starts stopwatch...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 09:48:54 Zzzzz sej-awake quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:03:02 seo Hi Dylan
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:03:35 seo I was reading your Genji trivia
thread on BGG the other day. A few facts sounded familiar :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:03:53 dnjkirk hehehe
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:08:46 Zzzzz we need to figure out a way to mass
flood pre-orders of Genji at Thought Hammer, that would be funny to have them get
hit for like 1000 pre-order copies
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:10:17 seo easy: just go and pre-order 1000
copies. You'll get free shipping.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:10:35 dnjkirk sweet
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:10:43 seo once it's sold-out, resell for 150%
of original price
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:10:47 dnjkirk if only Genji could be cool
like Pandemic and sell out
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:10:56 dnjkirk but no, I'll be burning boxes
to keep warm this winter
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:11:27 seo games with a lot of wooden cubes
are better suited for that
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:11:31 Zzzzz stop it... the issue is getting it
hyped up
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:11:38 Zzzzz true
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:12:35 Zzzzz seo: if I had $17k available to buy
1000 copies of Genji from Thought Hammer, I would not be working so much!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:15:07 seo you can sell your Jeep
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:15:39 seo "Honey, I've been thinking: it was
silly to spend so much on the new car. I sold it."
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:15:55 dnjkirk Sell it! Sell it! You know
you want to!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:16:02 seo "And invested it all in helping
Genji become an instant success."
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:18:54 Zzzzz ummm not sure that will happen.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:19:36 Zzzzz i would love to buy 1000s copies of
a game, but if I did it would be to have a print run of one of my own games (not
that that is smart idea !)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:19:54 dnjkirk EPOCH
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:20:25 Zzzzz yeah i wish. i have not focus on
any specific games design in a while. except for the gds entry
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:20:35 Zzzzz stops stopwatch...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:21:15 Zzzzz mumbles 24 minutes and 55
seconds...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:21:19 doho123 will be signing his Cambridge
Games Factory contract at lunch today
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:21:47 dnjkirk sweet!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:21:47 Zzzzz congratulates...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:21:51 dnjkirk (finally!)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:22:04 doho123 I wonder if the game is any
good
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:24:27 doho123 "Genji sales hit rock bottom
with the introduction of new Cambridge Game Factory game"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:24:49 doho123 in 2011
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:28:13 clearclaw My retheming of LCR as a
medieval mediterannean market trading game...WITH PIRATES...Is going to eclipse
Monopoly.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:30:11 doho123 adding pirates to LCR would
make it more interesting
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:30:18 Seth Scott: Congrats re: CGF
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:30:32 Seth I learned (didn't play) Glory to
Rome
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:30:35 Seth it seemed neat
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:30:38 doho123 well, wait another 2 years
and see what happens
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:30:40 seo Congrats, Scott!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:30:50 Seth like a degenerate sort of Puerto
Rico type game
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:31:18 Seth degenerate because as I heard it,
all the abilities are super-good
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:32:15 Seth I know what I'd like to try if I
were to play the game (which I may do one of these days at game night)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:32:27 Seth problem is, frisbee practice has
eclipsed game night
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:32:38 Seth so I'll have to wait for one of the
2 monthly Saturday Game Days
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:33:04 Seth ... Bryk siting on BGDF!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:33:24 seo poor Seth, his average monthly
ammount of game plays will go down to 40 or something! ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:33:38 Zzzzz awwww.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:38:30 seo ..
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:38:39 Seth I typed stuff, but it didn't post :
(
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:38:40 seo I guess it was the server
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:38:53 Zzzzz yeah chat seems to hiccup
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:38:53 seo same problem here
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:39:04 Seth I only play like 2 games at game
night, most of the gaming happens at my house
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:39:11 seo fortunately, it was just dumb
remarks as usual
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:39:21 Seth so I'll lose out on about 8-10
games per month
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:39:26 Seth same here :)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:39:30 Zzzzz so is it odd that when I see a
thread like "Strategies that make no sense" my gut reaction is to post the reply
"Any strategy played by Zzzzz's!"...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:39:49 Seth So I sent A41 stuff to QWG, I hope
they like it and are interested!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:39:55 seo then my calculations were right,
Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:40:16 doho123 like, a datapoint sheet, or
an entire game?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:40:41 Seth Then Scott can be published by CGF
and I can be published by QWG and Seo can be published by WBI and Dylan can be
published by Zman...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:40:48 Zzzzz hopes they dont JUST like A41, but
publish it!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:41:02 Seth thx Dave
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:41:12 Seth Scott: I sent rules/board/player
aid
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:41:29 Seth I will send proto as soon as I get
it back from Zev :/
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:41:42 Seth this could be a problem
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:41:46 doho123 Seth puts the thumb screw on
ZeV!!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:42:10 Seth I emailed him asking for the proto
back since he's so busy
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:42:17 Seth I offered to pay for shipping too
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:42:22 Seth haven't heard back
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:42:37 Seth but that was like Fri or Sat, so I
hope he writes me back today
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:42:45 doho123 "it's my game.....NOW!
muhWAHAHAHAHAHA!"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:43:01 Zzzzz he just got back from Australia, so
he might be behind still
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:43:11 Seth if he doesn't then the thumbscrews
will have to o to Seo to finish a nice proto!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:43:16 Seth yeah, I know
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:43:46 seo feels bad for not finishing that
proto
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:43:52 Zzzzz not to mention he needs to finish
Genji for Dylan!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:43:59 Seth Scott: do you think the spanish
design contest would like Reading railroad?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:44:13 Seth como se dice "Reading Railroad" en
Espanol?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:44:31 doho123 probably not.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:45:46 seo what does that mean, exactly? "A
railroad with the ability to read", "Reading a reailroad as I read the newspaper"
"A reailroad used as a reading aid"?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:46:06 Seth it's a pun, actually
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:46:23 doho123 well, I wouldn't call it a
pun
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:46:32 doho123 it's more of a reference
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:46:37 seo and you know puns are hard, if not
impossible to transslate, in most cases, right?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:47:11 seo also, I've always thought the game
is about writing, not reading
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:47:30 doho123 note to Seo: don't get into
this with Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:49:27 seo you speak from experience, uh?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:50:09 Seth it's a reference as well as a pun
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:51:56 doho123 IT'S NOT A PUN!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:52:24 seo note to doho123: don't get into
this with Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:53:05 doho123 definition of PUN: the
humorous use of a word or phrase so as to emphasize or suggest its different
meanings or applications, or the use of words that are alike or nearly alike in
sound but different in meaning; a play on words.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:54:41 Seth yes, and that's what is happening
here. On the one hand it's a reference to the Reading Railroad space in Monopoly
(which is in fact an actual railroad company - pronounced like "redding" I believe)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:54:53 Seth on the other hand, it's about
making words, which you read
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:54:59 Seth so "reading" like the verb
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:55:07 Seth that is a play on words
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:55:09 doho123 it's not humorous!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:55:28 Seth cannot be held responsible for
Scott's lack of a sense of humor
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:55:43 Seth it's humorous [i]because[/i] it's a
play on words
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:55:59 doho123 a game about delivering
croutons to salad bars called "Breading Railroad" is a play on words.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:56:21 Seth that would [i]also[/i] be a pun
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:56:24 clearclaw is prepared to laugh at
anything.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:56:26 doho123 Just calling it the exact
same name as what you are referencing is NOT a play on words.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:56:26 Seth and of course, the sequal gamme to
RR
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:56:29 seo that is funny
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:56:50 Seth "[b]or the use of words that are
alike or nearly alike in sound but different in meaning[/b]"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:57:25 clearclaw Time flies like an arrow,
fruit flies like a banana.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:57:28 doho123 note to doho123: do not get
into this with Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:58:46 doho123 "Conjunction Junction" is
still a better name, but still not a pun
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:59:05 Seth I don't understand your
arguement... the reading railroad (the company) and the word Reading (the verb) are
2 very different uses of the word (2 different words, really)... and using it in
both cases simultaneously (reference as well as meaning) is the very definition of
"pun"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:59:15 Seth there are no conjunctions
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:59:24 doho123 needs to read his notes
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 10:59:57 doho123 looks forward to see Seth
performing all week at The Improv
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:00:43 doho123 "Why did the melon get
married in a church?"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:00:59 doho123 "Because he....canteloupe"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:01:18 Seth S breading Railraoad... delivering
colored "crouton" cubes to various Salads on the board? Sounds intriguing...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:01:36 doho123 not more colored cubes!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:01:42 seo anyway, the pun would be lost as
the Spanish version of Monopoly has no Reading Railroad, I think
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:01:47 Seth Scott: your Canteloupe example - is
that a pun?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:01:55 Seth (because it's not funny.... but it
i s a pun!)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:02:18 doho123 my 4 year old eats that joke
up!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:02:28 Seth seo: the spanish version could be
called Conjunction Junction... como se dice este
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:02:46 Seth >
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:03:24 Seth has yet to finish the OP proto
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:03:26 seo ¿Unión de la conjunción?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:03:27 Seth although I basically have
everything I think
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:05:38 seo Zzzzz: got it!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:07:13 Zzzzz monopoly rocks!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:07:32 Zzzzz ok... sorry was catching up on the
*fun* chat
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:09:06 Zzzzz seo : that is just the initial
rough doc... still much to be done but I figured it was smart to place it in a
common area
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:09:37 seo yeah, I guess you didn't plan to
use the BGDF logo as the board! :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:10:08 Zzzzz maybe but now everyone would know
our gds entry!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:10:34 seo Also, "Placeholder text" sounds
like too short an explanation for scoring
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:10:57 Zzzzz i was trying to keep us under the
word limit!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:11:24 seo that would do, but would also keep
us under the minimum votes limit
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:11:45 Zzzzz good point
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:11:59 Zzzzz side note : Playboy model does Wii
Fit
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:12:17 Zzzzz the internet is just trash these
days
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:12:45 seo yeah, you can't google for "playboy
model" without getting Wii ads!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:25:07 doho123 Gogolski quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:32:48 seo Dylan: great answer at
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:38:27 Seth I agree
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:38:34 Seth though I don't see Ambrose in here
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:39:24 Seth If I had a nickel for every
geekmail I get about updated games: Something has been posted about PocketCiv...
I'd have a lot of nickels!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:42:20 dnjkirk must sleep!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:42:21 dnjkirk night!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:42:42 Seth 'night Dylan
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:46:26 Zzzzz dnjkirk quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:53:34 seo Ambrose said he would come once he
gets a new email address. Maybe he is wating for a meeting with his email address
broker.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:54:12 seo maybe he's as proactive about
getting email addresses as he is with game design
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/318273 For one, VS seemed fun and MA
didn't. Maybe it was the crowd, or maybe it was the dry auction where any newbie
could drastically over pay for a painting and give the game away.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:56:26 clearclaw What an effective bit of
praise for Modern Art!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:58:42 Seth I wouldn't say I don't like games
that are "fragile" (subject to simply not working with inexperienced players) -
it's just that being able to play such games with experienced players is such a
rare occurance most of th etime that it's often too much trouble
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:59:00 Seth in order ofr Brass and Container to
be "good" I had to specifically cajole people into playing each over and over
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:59:25 Seth and it often seems like each time I
play a game, it's a learning game for 1 or more players
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:59:38 clearclaw Obviously there should be no
reward for experience.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 11:59:44 Seth with Brass I invited specific
people over more than once to play
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:00:04 Seth ‹clearclaw› Obviously there should
be no reward for experience. <- what do you mean?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:01:05 clearclaw I'm satirising the common
complaint of games being unapproachable, unforgiving, fragile, or otherwise not
instantly rewarding to the novice.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:01:38 Seth Scott: your public needs ou!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:01:39 clearclaw More loosely the idea that
the players don't have to invest in the game they are playing.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:02:20 Seth JC: there's a difference between
the game being what I'm callin Fragile and rewarding experience
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:02:43 Seth when I say Fragile, that means that
inexperience soils the whole game for everyone - the game doesn't "work right"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:02:52 clearclaw Only in that your fragility
requires quorum experience.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:02:55 Seth it [i]cancels out[/i] any reward
you could have for experience
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:03:38 clearclaw nods. Another common
complaint. I don't have a lot of sympathy -- many (most?) games have that
"problem" to some degree.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:03:54 Seth so for games that are going to be
played only a couple times, or each time with new players, I prefer a system that
is resiliant to that. I'm not saying that a newbie should win- hell no. If you
don't know what you're doing and you play with people ewho do, then you should
lose. And the player who plays best should win
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:04:21 clearclaw If you play with idiots
you'll get idiotic games. (Which is why I so rarely play with myself...)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:04:47 Seth when you are the best player at the
table (most experienced/most invested/etc) and you lose because a new player plays
irrationally becasue they don't know better, then that's an example of fragility
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:04:52 clearclaw Right, so don't just play
them a couple times. Put them in fast-rotation and burn that puppy.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:04:54 Seth and I'm not a fan of that kind of
fragility
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:05:39 clearclaw shrugs. I don't have quite
that much problem with it. It goes the other way too with player-to-the-left-of-
the-newbie-wins.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:05:39 Seth yes, a fragile game, in order to
appreciatre it, needs to be played frequently with the same people
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:05:52 Seth however, depending on your
situation, that may not be possible
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:06:01 Seth in which case the game simply isn't
a good game for the group
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:06:21 clearclaw In certain cases, such as
Wabash Cannoball, I find that fragility to be a primary selling point of the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:06:49 clearclaw shrugs. Group, smoop. Get
another one if the current one isn't serving!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:07:40 clearclaw Some games don't fit given
groups, that's a given. However that's a more (usefully) a property of the group
than of the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:08:00 clearclaw If I were to point fingers,
I'd point at the group, not the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:08:27 Seth so on the design side, I would like
to design a game that won't simply be ignored by whole groups simply because they
haven't got the mentality of "fast rotation"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:08:59 Seth Not every location has the luxury
of size/diversity of player pool as San fran
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:09:11 clearclaw Conversely, that's what I
seek.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:09:32 Seth you seek games that will be ignored
by the "wrong kind" of players?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:09:47 Seth I seek to design games that are
versatile/resiliant
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:10:23 Seth that can be enjoyed by those
players as well as the kind of player that is in a "cult of the new" group (i.e.
people don't play things frequently)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:10:23 clearclaw I'm specifically interest in
players who will invest considerable interest in the game. If that means
discarding the vast majority of gamers aforethought, then I'll do that instanter
without ever noticing.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:10:28 Seth it's a lofty goal
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:11:05 clearclaw But then I tend to view
players as consumables.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:11:18 Seth I've noticed a lot of recent games
seem to 'go too far' and make games that are solely for the CotN types, and the
games aren't interesting if you play them a couple times
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:11:30 Seth I don't like that trend
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:11:41 clearclaw either. I'm not a populist.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:11:46 Seth I would like to see games that are
both deep and accessible
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:12:19 Seth I like deep, because I like to play
deeper games, and I liekt o play games more than just a few times
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:12:44 Seth I like accessible because I like to
see the hobby grow, and I want more people to start playing the gmes so that I'll
be able to play those games with them and they'll be 'experienced'
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:12:45 clearclaw I prefer games which unfold
given investment. As it is a given that only a fraction will invest it makes sense
to ignore the larger population who won't invest.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:12:58 Seth it's hard to get a table of
'experienced' players!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:13:24 Seth JC: that's true to an extent, but
it's also dependant on your PoV
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:13:37 Seth a Publisher might ought not ignore
large percentages of the market
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:14:11 Seth a desinger looking to be published
might ought consider that as well
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:14:12 clearclaw I've no problem with
producing games which explicitly exclude the vast majority of players from
interest. I've no interest in them, they've no interest in me -- a divorce made in
heaven!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:14:20 Seth a designer not interested in being
published, or self publishing (doing like Winsome) can cater to a small market
segment
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:14:28 clearclaw grins. I don't design for
publication.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:14:38 Seth I understand that
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:15:15 clearclaw More specifically, I don't
design for marketability.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:15:41 Seth in many cases though, I think games
that do cater to that small market segment, with little development, could actually
cater to a larger portion of the market - they could satisfy the intended market as
well as other players
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:15:41 clearclaw And I strongly dislike the
products that are overtly designed for marketability.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:15:58 Seth they jsut need that development, nd
that has to come from someone who cares, which the original designer may not
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:16:22 Seth ... crap, chat die AGAIN?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:17:06 clearclaw Is getting a larger market
segment necessarily better?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:17:10 Seth gah
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:17:15 Zzzzz seth: i spent all that time trying
to come up with enough games for $125 order, to save $8?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:17:16 Seth chat isa nnoying today
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:17:31 Zzzzz yeah... i need to fix the world of
BGDF sometime very soon.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:17:40 Seth JC: all other things being equal, a
wider audience is strictly better than a smaller one
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:17:45 Zzzzz whoa some nice thunder here again
today
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:17:49 clearclaw Zzzzz: I forgot to mention
the two pre-order games that are heading my list: Confucius and Huang Di.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:17:52 Seth more smiling faces > fewer smiling
faces
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:18:01 Seth Confucious sounded neat
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:18:11 Seth Ming Dynasty sounds "ok'
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:18:20 Seth Zzz: did you get Stone Age?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:18:29 clearclaw That assumes that smiling
faces are the desired product metric. They're not for me.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:19:01 Zzzzz nope no SA, i think others in the
playing group already have it
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:19:06 Seth for you or not for you, [i]all
other things being equal, wider audience is strictly better[/i]
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:19:09 Seth I maintain that
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:19:18 clearclaw I would much rather have a
few people say, "That's really interesting, I should dig into that!" than a large
number of people laughing and saying how fun it is.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:19:37 Seth if it's the same game, why not have
both?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:19:37 clearclaw I disagree without
reservation.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:19:48 Seth Wouldn't both be better than one,
all other things being equal?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:19:57 clearclaw One is a nice-to-have that I
don't care about. The other I'll fight for.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:20:24 Seth right, so after fighting for the
one, if the other nice-to-have occurs, is that not better than it not occuring?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:20:33 Seth even if you don't care about it,
it's better
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:20:42 clearclaw Sure, the sum is better, but
a world of FUN is instantly worth discarding for a single INTERESTING
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:20:49 Zzzzz better for others...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:21:29 Seth that's fine, but it doesn't bear
anything with regard to the statement "all other things being equal, a wider
audience is strictly better than a smaller one"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:22:18 clearclaw Only if the target/desired
audience isn't bounded, or the negative affects of large audience are not
considered.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:22:56 Seth "all other things being equal"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:23:15 Seth what negative effects of a large
audience?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:23:23 clearclaw Side market success comes
with costs. If I'm unwilling to support those costs then the narrow market success
is better. And the two are equal -- linearly.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:23:33 Seth the game might be labeled "popular"
and therefore cease to be interesting to JC?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:23:52 Seth what costs?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:24:15 Seth more people wanting copies? People
asking questions? More people criticizing?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:24:16 clearclaw Take the easy out: fame.
Lets say I had the ability to become the next Robert Redford tomorrow for minimal
effort. Would I? Hell no.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:24:41 clearclaw TANSTAFL
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:24:50 Seth ok, so this "joke" was closer to
true tahn I thought? "the game might be labeled "popular" and therefore cease to be
interesting to JC?"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:25:48 clearclaw Say I have a game that was
intended to be intersting to only my family or some other closed group. It
achieves wild success. Why do I want that distraction?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:26:03 clearclaw Popularity is _expensive_.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:26:08 Seth you could ignore that success and
be no worse off
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:26:36 clearclaw Factually that's not
supportable.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:26:55 Seth how do you mean
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:27:36 clearclaw If you have power and don't
use it, then you will, necessarily, become the victim of that power.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:28:09 doho123 maybe in a comic book way,
but not in a real world wayu
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:28:30 seo thinks JC might ba a bit of an
inverse-snob
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:28:44 clearclaw More simply: I produce the
game for my family, it does well in my family and is a wild success outside. Why
is the outside success an improvement for me?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:29:20 clearclaw seo: My intent is to simply
devalue utterly the value of populism, to remove that metric from the equation.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:29:30 doho123 it's not an improvement
(unless that's what you want it to be) but you hardly become the victim of it
either
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:30:07 clearclaw In the modern legal world,
how do I separate myself from its external success?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:30:47 Seth "Why is the outside success an
improvement for me?" <- I said improvement, not improvement [i]for you[/i]. It
appears you consider only yourself or thigns relative to you. I consider things
relative to the whole (or relative to the game perhaps)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:31:00 Seth so improvement "for the game"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:31:13 clearclaw The game doesn't change
whether or not it is popular.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:31:27 doho123 I'm wondering how the game
"Becomes wildly successful" ont he outside if you only made it for your family to
begin with, actually
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:31:34 Zzzzz is enjoying the debate...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:31:52 clearclaw shrugs. I've no idea.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:32:17 doho123 since getting it to the
outside world implies the need of somehow marketing it beyond your family
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:32:20 clearclaw Seth: If the improvement is
not personal to me, then it is in sime way a moral improvement?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:32:21 Zzzzz because Seth decides after chatting
with JC to put out a game that JC was working on :P
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:32:41 clearclaw doho: That could be done by a
3rd party.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:33:19 doho123 but if you are trying to sell
it to a 3rd party, then you haave some need to ppush it beyond your family
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:33:51 doho123 if you are truly concerned
about the legal risks the outside world demands, then it would be kept "in the
family"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:33:57 Zzzzz do JC do you not end of supporting
the opposite when you attempt to gain access to the unknown, unpopular, non main
stream games?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:33:58 doho123 instead of being shopped
around
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:34:33 Seth let's not start with morals
again! :) If you want to call it "morally better" then go ahead. I believe I'm
talking about the success of the game from the game's point of view.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:34:53 clearclaw doho: There's always the
question of target market. Family is just a place-holder for a narrowly defined
audience. Let's say I was producing an 18XX variant that I was interested in
selling to the fans of a spefific railroad in a specific community. For some odd
reason the game becomes wildly popular. Why is that good?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:35:07 clearclaw I don't believe games have
POV's.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:35:33 Seth I think, after consulting the Dave
to English dictionary that that sentence was supposed to read: "JC do you not end
up supporting ..."
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:35:38 clearclaw Zzzz: I don't grok your
question
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:35:52 Zzzzz yes thx seth
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:36:07 clearclaw Zzzzzz: Opposite of which?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:36:11 doho123 it's only good if you believe
that you are making things to make people happy. And if a wider market is made
happier than expected, then that is goo.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:36:16 Seth JC: Look at it from the
hypothetical PoV of the game, as if it had a PoV
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:36:18 doho123 good
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:36:23 Zzzzz my point was that are you not
attempting to increase the audience by getting more access to the non *popular*
available games?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:36:41 clearclaw Doho! Exactly. But making
undifferentiated people happy is not my goal.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:37:05 Seth Scott: close: I'm suggesting that
even if you're [i]not[/i] making things to make people happy, then making more
people happy (by accident if you like) )is better than less people
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:37:08 doho123 that's fine. but I don't see
the downside of corruption that linked towards it
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:37:33 doho123 You make a game, people like
it. the end. It doesn't matter how many. That's fine.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:37:38 Zzzzz why is this chat so intruging to me
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:37:45 clearclaw Zzzzz: My interest is getting
access to the games that interest me, the rest of the audience be damned.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:37:59 Zzzzz intriguing*
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:38:11 doho123 but getting bitter about a
soething that you designed being TOO POPLUAR sort of boggles me
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:38:30 Zzzzz so people wanting access to your
games is *bad* because it might bring undesired *popularity*, yet it is ok to do
that to someone else?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:38:54 clearclaw Zzzzz: Of course. Consumers
prey on producers.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:39:15 Zzzzz ok so your belief in
popularism(sp?) is one sided?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:40:06 clearclaw Doho: Bitter may be too
strong. If I'm selling something I have a target popularity. Too much or too
little compared to that is an unwanted problem.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:40:20 Seth ‹clearclaw› Consumers prey on
producers. <- awesome quote
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:40:34 Seth many people consider the
relationship the opposite
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:40:35 clearclaw thought that was obvious.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:41:05 Seth in the marketplace, isn't it
normally the case that producers preay on consumers?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:41:19 clearclaw The inverse works as well.
The dependency is mutual. Buyers and sellers markets both exist. Really it is the
fact of the value gradiend that is preyed on.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:41:40 doho123 ok, so I'm now guessing you
are talking more about the pains of manufacturing/warehousing/distributing than
intangible "likability" then
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:42:21 Seth there must be something that JC is
connecting to the idea of popularity, because he eschewed the idea of being able to
ignore popularity
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:43:01 Seth JC: Take PocketCiv. Scott created a
game, people seem to like it, they post all kinds of threads asking questions...
Scott just doesn't answer them
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:43:07 Seth easily ignored! ;)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:43:20 doho123 I amswer some of them!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:43:53 doho123 What's PocketCiv?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:44:13 doho123 <whistles while looking the
other way>
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:45:15 Seth PocketCiv is really clever,
actually
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:45:21 Seth I'm not surprised it's well liked
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:45:31 Seth Kudos to you for that Scott.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:45:34 clearclaw Seth: You are asserting that
more people being happy is better than fewer people being happy. That's morality.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:45:44 Seth (of course, most of what's good
about it is not having to track your resources...)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:46:04 doho123 to tell the truth, I rather a
small community sort of "take over" PocketCiv due to it's open ended nature.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:46:09 doho123 Which sadly hasn't happened.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:46:11 Seth I'm using "people being made happy"
to exemplify "success". that's not morality
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:46:24 clearclaw Define: success.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:46:46 clearclaw For me success is
accomplishing the goal I set out to accomplish.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:46:55 Seth success for a game... maybe people
having a positive reaction as opposed to a negative one?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:47:07 doho123 The fact that people have
wondered about 2 player rules, even though noone has tried to invent their own, Or
even tried the suggested 2 player rules I outlined sort of saddens me.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:47:07 clearclaw Do I care about those people?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:47:11 Seth that's success for Clearclaw. I'm
considering Success for game
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:47:19 Seth Obviously you don't
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:47:39 clearclaw The game isn't alive. It is
a product I created with specific purposes in mind. It is but a vehicle for
intent. It is nothing by itself.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:48:00 clearclaw Maybe I care about them, then
they factor to my success, or I don't care about them, in which case they don't.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:48:09 seo Duchamp would disagree
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:48:14 Seth and yet - a [i]thing[/i] like a
game can gain success on it's own
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:48:21 Seth consider literature
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:48:29 clearclaw Only in the minds of people.
The thing hasn't changed.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:49:06 clearclaw The only change is in the
memetic aspects.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:49:07 Seth especially literature by people who
have been dead for centuries, which is analysed by people all the time even today
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:49:08 Seth ‹clearclaw› Only in the minds of
people. The thing hasn't changed. <- correct
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:49:14 doho123 isn't the goal of a game to
be generally well-accepted by it's players?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:49:50 clearclaw doho: The goal of my games is
to be interesting to specific types of people. Liked is optional.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:49:56 doho123 or the goal of a design?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:50:06 clearclaw (ditto design)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:50:38 doho123 I would think that
"interesting" and "liked" go hand in hand
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:50:53 seo JC: your games aren't alive, they
can't have goals. You might have goals for them, and Seth might have different
goals for your games.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:50:58 doho123 If your target audience
doesn't find the design intersting, then they are not liking it either
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:51:13 clearclaw shrugs. There are many
things I find interesting but also unpleasant. It helps in this case if they're
also liked but it isn't critical.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:52:01 clearclaw It helps because it helps
carry the interest forward, helps to perpetuate the interest and thus the
discovery.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:52:14 clearclaw Seo: True.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:52:37 Seth I learned in English Class all
about the meaning of this and that in a book, and I asked a question to the effect
of "how do we know this is what the author was intending - are we putting words in
his mouth?"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:53:08 seo that is a topice that has always
fascinated me, Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:53:08 clearclaw Seth: A common question.
There's a famous story about Asimov in that regard.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:53:13 seo topic
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:53:21 Seth the answer was that there are 2
schools of thought on that, and the larger seems to consider that nobody cares what
the author intended, reading this or that in the text is now up to the audience
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:53:28 seo it also applies to painting and
other forms of creation
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:53:53 Seth so even if it wasn't intended by
the author, there can be meaning gleaned from a work
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:54:04 seo I agree
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:54:11 Seth I would suggest it could also apply
to a game design
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:54:24 seo I agree again
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:54:33 clearclaw Asimov attended a litary
discussion at one of the NY universities IIRC in which they dissected one of his
works and attributed all sorts of meanings and references to it. He stood up and
said that he had absolutly non of that in mind when he wrote it. The reponse, "So
what, it is a work of communication, and not all of a communication has to be
intentional."
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:55:13 clearclaw Equally obviously applies to
games.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:55:25 Seth so I think I have to disagree with
your assertion that games can't have success because they don't have feelings or
whatever
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:55:40 clearclaw Huh?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:55:45 Seth ‹clearclaw› The game isn't alive.
It is a product I created with specific purposes in mind. It is but a vehicle for
intent. It is nothing by itself.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:55:52 seo you lost me
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:56:27 clearclaw The only success there, if
you wish, is the propagation success of a meme.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:56:27 Seth I lost the buffer because I had to
reload, but I think JC also said something about the game not having a PoV
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:56:32 Zzzzz seo & JC : dont get into that with
seth :P
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:56:42 Seth sure, call it that if you like
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:56:57 doho123 well a design's POV is
whatever the player's take from it
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:57:06 Seth right
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:57:15 Seth with that I agree, Scott
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:57:17 clearclaw And the meme is dead.
Utterly dead. It is merely a viewpoint attributed with values communicated among
people.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:57:25 doho123 maybe I should change my mind
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:57:26 clearclaw nods doho
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:57:46 Seth according to that quote about
Asimov, the meme is [i]not[/i] dead
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:57:52 seo a meme is not dead it just isn't
alive
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:57:57 clearclaw huh?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:58:16 clearclaw True: something inanimate is
technically not dead. It never was alive.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:58:22 Zzzzz the POV is not just what player's
take from it. there are still other POVs
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:59:03 clearclaw (the field of PoVs is
infinite, and given 6.5B people in the world, a lot of that neraby space is already
occupied)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 12:59:57 Zzzzz my point was to broaden what scott
stated. you cannot just say the design's POV is whatever the player's take from it.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:00:12 Zzzzz you have designers that might have
a differnet POV on a design, for example
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:00:31 Zzzzz anyways... my brain is not strong
enough to be part of this debate so I am going to afk for a bit
Zzzzz-away
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:04:00 Zzzzz-away ..
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:07:14 Seth I never understand what Zzzz is
trying to say
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:07:17 Seth ah well
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:11:03 Seth So what did we learn today,boys and
girls?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:11:17 Seth is there anything we can take away
from thie discussion?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:13:02 seo "Define your technical terms before
you engage into an endless discussion"?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:13:28 seo e.g.: "Success"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:16:22 clearclaw I suspect that more than half
od human discussion is nothing but the disagreement over definitions.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:18:18 seo I agree
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:19:10 seo and that's probably why I tend (or
try) to be tolerant when I disagree with someone
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:20:18 Seth yeha, many arguements are semantic,
and that annoys me
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:21:14 Seth So JC, what's your view of that
Asimov quote, where he says he didn't intend any of that stuff people were reading
into his work, and they said "we don't care"?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:21:26 Seth if you were Asimov, what would your
reaction have been?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:24:29 clearclaw I wouldn't care. Viewpoints
are free and worth as much.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:26:04 Seth then why would you care if a game
you designed got "popular"?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:26:15 clearclaw Because they'd come back to
me for it.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:28:36 Seth Ah
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:30:17 seo but your clearclaw persona
(radically rational, unwilling to be popular, opinionated, etc.), ironically, works
like a magnet.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:31:00 seo a less radical position would
attract less attention and would be less likely to give you the unwanted annoyance
of popularity
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:31:10 clearclaw Clearly I'm in it for the
scores and scores of adulating and adulterous women.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:31:24 clearclaw Some sacrifices have to be
made.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:31:45 seo for that you need the looks of Brad
Pitt, not the brains of Stephen Hauking
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:31:52 seo Hawking*
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:32:09 clearclaw More simply at that level I
view popularity as an acceptable tax. Annoying but present.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:32:43 clearclaw Asides perhaps from
wasshername, and I'm pretty sure even then, I sure as heck would not want to be
Brad Pitt.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:32:56 seo that's ok, but then, why fight so
hard when it comes to your games?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:33:22 seo you don't like Angelina? ;-)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:33:43 seo I get your point. Being real famous
has to be a pain
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:34:29 seo only compensated by having loads of
money at your disposal, but still there's no direct correlation money >>> quality
of life at that point
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:34:44 clearclaw I really don't want to fight
it. I simply want to remove it from consideration. As I recognise that I can't
actually fully ignore it, I do the very little I can get away with to remove what I
can.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:37:09 clearclaw At the large level I want to
operate as if popularity and the results of popularity beyond anything but a very
local and small level, simply didn't exist.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:37:34 clearclaw Which is impossible in our
globally communicating tribal world of course.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:39:16 seo that's 100% valid. I usually don't
mind popularity (maybe because I don't have too much), but sometimes it is quite
annoying.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:41:34 Seth I began this discussion saying that
I'd prefer to design a game that is not 'fragile' - but lately, looking at the
'dumbed down' (simplistic) games that are coming out left and right, I kind of want
to design a simplistic game as well...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:41:40 seo but I think Seth is right when he
states that you can just ignore the crowds
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:42:15 Seth hence the attempt at a simlper
version of the airline thing... (travel Agent thing I guess)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:42:25 Seth Maybe called "Ticket, Please"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:42:27 seo ah, I was trying to remember how
this all started. Thanks Seth
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:42:37 clearclaw What a beautifully even
scatter: http://www.lautapelaaja.net/bgg/correlation.php?
user1=clearclaw&user2=sisteray&limit=50
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:46:40 Seth I was watching Indiana Jones and
the LAst Crusade yesterday... I like that scene in the blimp where he throws the
Nazi out the window and tells all the puzzled people "No ticket!"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:47:04 Seth I was watching Dogma a while ago
and noticed that Silent Bob throws someone off a train, then says "No ticket!"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:47:11 seo that page does nothing when I try
to compare you two
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:47:16 Seth I hadn't noticed that before, nice
reference
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:47:16 doho123 yep
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:47:43 clearclaw try refreshing cache?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:48:24 seo it says Not enough data
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:48:29 clearclaw (checked same URL from
another browser, still working)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:48:42 clearclaw For sisteray and me?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:48:57 seo for Seth and you
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:49:04 clearclaw We've scads of commonly rated
games.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:49:11 clearclaw Oh, yeah, for Seth...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:52:54 clearclaw The two users must have
enough games they've both rated.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:54:25 Seth yeah, not enough in common I guess
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:54:31 Seth I'm amused that you checked that :)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:54:34 Seth (I did too)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:54:58 seo after that crazy discussion, I was
curious
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:55:43 clearclaw Seth: In reading your game
rating complaints, yet again I find myself thinking, "But that's why the game is so
interesting!"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 13:59:35 Seth which games?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:11:32 clearclaw eg Bison, Carcassonne, El
Grande, Imperial (tho I also don't like the Investor card, tho for different
reasons), Keythedral (which is much improved by playing will _all_ game information
public), OnTheUndergroun (which I'd never play with other than 3, but would still
avoid), Power Grid (the hurry-up-and-wait is one of the interesting bits), Torres
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:13:08 Seth Re: Bison/Torres - you like the
mathyness?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:13:09 clearclaw Bison, Carc, El Grande and
Power Grid are the ones that caught my attention.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:13:18 clearclaw Oh, and your dislike for Reef
Encounter.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:13:35 clearclaw Yes, I like the mathyness.
Games are math.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:13:44 Seth Carc: I complained about down time
and people telling me where to put my piece
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:13:56 clearclaw And decision space and
farmers.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:14:02 Seth I like Bison more than Torres or
Java for sure
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:14:06 Seth did you see my review of it?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:14:13 clearclaw I find 3 of those 4 things to
be strong positives.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:14:24 clearclaw No, I didn't read your
review, only ratings.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:14:32 Seth My complaint about the farmer
scoring is mostly that it's annoyingly hard to explain for a "gateway game"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:15:09 clearclaw I'
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:15:20 clearclaw I've not had that problem.
Has always been simple enough.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:15:52 clearclaw I like Torres. Not so
impressed with Java, tho I can see why some would like it.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:16:09 clearclaw Bison was mostly meh. I like
Reef Encounter a lot.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:16:23 Seth In El grande it's not much of a
complaint, but I thought if they were going to hide the number of guys in the
castillo, then they should also hide the number of guysi in the provinces
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:16:34 Seth because otherwise it's not 'hidden
enough' to matter
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:16:52 Seth and if they're not going to hide
it, then why have the stupid tower and say people can't look?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:17:00 Seth I suspect you play without hiding
that info.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:17:27 Seth Also, we prefer the turn order from
low to high number, rather than clockwise
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:17:49 Seth when playing a card you can
consider turn order further than simply "first or not?"
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:18:24 Seth I don't know if those are
considered complaints.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:18:28 clearclaw You also appear to like games
you win
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:18:31 Seth what about that caught your
attention?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:18:38 Seth more like I win games I like
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:18:55 Seth if I like them then I try harder
and do better and win
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:19:36 kj likes games he can conceive of
winning.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:19:50 clearclaw I really don't tie winning
and liking together.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:20:01 Seth I like some games even if i don't
win: see Australia
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:20:07 kj (Playing chess against my daughter
more than against Bobby Fischer)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:20:18 kj (especially since his moves are
slower now)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:20:20 Seth I don't tie them together, but I
don't deny they're likely related
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:20:22 clearclaw I've played almost 20 games
of LW and have won only one -- and only that due to clearly stupid opponents.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:20:58 kj LW = ?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:21:03 Seth what did you think of my LW
comments?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:21:17 Seth well, Comment (singluar) I guess
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:21:45 clearclaw I mis understood your
reference to hidden provinces in El Grande as being the supply, I see no need for
hidden scoring, and I thought turn order was in card value order? (it has been ~5
years since I'ce played)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:22:16 clearclaw LW == Lokomotive Werks.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:22:26 Seth turn order is (according to rules)
Lowest number goes first, then clockwise
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:22:32 Seth We prefer card order
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:22:41 clearclaw I think the linearity of LW
is somewhere between irrelevant and uninteresting.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:22:58 Seth by provinces I meant the supply
(there's Provinces and there's Court - Court is your immediate supply, provinces is
the rest of your cubes)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:23:07 clearclaw figured that.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:23:29 kj ah - don't know that one
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:23:47 clearclaw My strongest recollection of
EG is that Konig & Intrigant is a great improvement.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:23:53 Seth And I only thought hidden scoring
would be nice to reduce AP especially at the end... I understandyou have a
different view of all that
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:24:06 Seth I haven't played with the
expansions but once
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:24:09 Seth and that was crazy
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:24:13 clearclaw kj: Very small press. I'm
active in getting it reprinted.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:24:14 Seth all of them at once
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:24:22 clearclaw Crazy?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:24:36 kj looks amusing from the too brief
BGG description
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:25:11 clearclaw I've a review there and on my
blog.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:25:24 clearclaw (Ben BTW has turned out to be
a big fan of LW)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:27:34 Seth ‹clearclaw› I think the linearity
of LW is somewhere between irrelevant and uninteresting. <- I thought you thought
it WAS interesting? Or you like the game, and you think that it's linear has no
bearing ..?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:27:41 kj will read it later ... must
work .... bye
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:27:51 Seth bye KJ
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:28:17 Seth (did you read my Bison review since
I linked it?)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:28:22 clearclaw I find LW is interesting but
the linearity uninteresting.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:28:25 clearclaw read it
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:28:48 Seth And you said you don't care for
Pillars of the Earth, right?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:29:04 Seth I feel like PotE is like LW only
less linear
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:29:14 Seth What do you dislike about PotE
again?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:29:25 Seth (that it's popular and that it's
'pretty' aside)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:29:28 clearclaw I find one bit of LW
interesting: the juggle of probabilities and turn order and cash in the mid-game.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:29:37 Seth Actually, I'mn not so sure it's
popular
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:29:37 clearclaw And I find that bit very
interesting.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:29:47 clearclaw I've not played PotE.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:29:57 clearclaw Can't comment well on it.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:30:08 Seth yeah, PotE doesn't have probability
in demand
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:30:18 Seth perhaps you should give it a try
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:30:33 clearclaw points to Ben's rating
comment for LW.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:30:44 Seth link?
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewcollections.php3?
gameid=3828&comment=1&orderby=rating&dir=-1
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:33:39 Seth comparisons to PR
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewcollection.php3?
username=Coca+Lite&rated=1&startletter=ALL His comments on 1860 are delightfully
spot on
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:39:09 clearclaw laughs at the Quo Vadis
rating. That's why I like the game.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:40:16 Seth were there any of m y commentst hat
you agreed with at all?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:41:09 clearclaw Not that I particularly
recalled. Ao many of your comments described emotional reactions rather than
reasoning.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:41:43 clearclaw Zzzzz-away quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:41:53 clearclaw s/Ao/So/
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:42:10 Seth sometimes I think about going
through and posting assertions about games I've played and have an opinoin on
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:43:07 Seth I've always wanted to play
Logistico
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:43:11 Seth I think I might like it a lot
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:45:34 clearclaw Logistico is an odd game.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:55:17 Seth seems like my kind of thing
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:55:22 Seth I think I like MoA, played it on
Sat
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 14:55:56 Seth I am liking all the new stuff I got
(container - though I haven't played that in a while now - Brass, MoA)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 15:18:59 clearclaw Ultimately I found MoA
uninteresting. It descended to the random order of the values of the cards. The
bidding is nearly deterministic with good players.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 15:19:32 clearclaw But I enjoyed it until then.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 15:29:20 Seth http://sedjtroll.blogspot.com/
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 15:29:40 Seth I just posted a little review of it
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 15:29:43 Seth very little
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 15:30:00 Seth I will be probably writing a bigger
review of Brass
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 15:30:07 Seth seeing as how I'm bored
http://sjaffee.blogspot.com/2008/06/hole-in-one.html
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:06:54 Seth hi rick
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:10:21 Seth You missed some relatively
interesting discussion earlier...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:10:29 Rick Seth: IIRC, Indy rode with Pancho
Villa in one of the Young Indiana Jones TV shows.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:10:43 Rick They didn't make it up for Crystal
Skull. :)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:11:09 Seth I know
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:11:13 Seth Or, I figured
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:11:25 Seth but it sounded sorta lame I
thiought
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:11:38 Seth I tried watching Young Indiana
Jones chronicles
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:11:40 Seth it was horrible
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:11:53 Rick They had to establish Indy in
Mutt's eyes as a legendary adventurer.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:11:56 clearclaw2 "...aiming for he hol..."
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:12:05 Rick Mutt apparently hadn't seen all the
movies. :D
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:13:09 Seth thx, fixed
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:14:06 Seth This could be a good resource...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:16:33 clearclaw2 "On the other hand, I find
the provost adds an element of nastiness which means I refuse to play this game
ever again. I don't remember bad things actually happening to me, but the fact that
a game had a built-in opportunity for spite appalled me." -- Whoa, reverse gear.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:18:30 Rick Yah, I chimed in on that list with
a comment about AGoT
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:26:51 clearclaw2 It is tempting to weigh in
better/earlier archetype games for the various mechanisms (eg Neuland instead of
Thebes), plus the correct use of mechanism vs mechanic, but I really can't be
bothered.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:32:00 Seth Someone already mentioned the
correct use of mechanism vs mechanic - and someone rebutted with definitions
showing "mechanic" is OK
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:33:10 Seth Also, saying "this mechanism isn't
original to thebes, it is in Neuland" isn't really that big a deal, this list isn't
giving credit for where mechnaics come from, it's saying which mechanisms were
considered "cool" by players
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:33:27 Seth so from Neuland originally or not,
the person played Thebes and liked the time track
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:35:27 clearclaw2 As of last I checked and
recall the OED disagrees on mechaniism/mechanic.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/342728 The rule detracts a bit from the
presentation.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/342757 Close to if not the most delicately
balanced Polarity game I've seen. There's quite a story in there -- putting the
cry to those who require theme for natrrative.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:45:53 RecklessJester joins SpielTalk!
http://dakotacom.net/~sej/misc/ID4.txt
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:47:59 Seth why didn't that do better in the
GDS?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:48:13 Seth Hi Ben
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:48:21 RecklessJester hey
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:53:23 Rick Seth, you gotta stop designing
games around movie/tv franchises.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:53:36 Rick It's gotta be about 100 times
harder to get something like that published.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:55:58 clearclaw2 Uberbadger should come up
with some better shirts.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:56:08 clearclaw2 Err, we should supply him
with some better shirt images.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:56:35 RecklessJester I think the general
concept of it sounds good and feasible if you take away the tie-in, the dates, and
the change the endgame challenge
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:56:45 Seth Rick, do you recall that one? It
was me and Nando's entry a while back
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 16:57:19 clearclaw2 proposes: There is one
winner...and the rest of you losers.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:09:07 Seth Ben, what brings you by here?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:09:23 RecklessJester randomness
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:09:37 clearclaw2 always blames the dice too.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:12:13 Seth ebn, I like how you've organized
your Unpublished Prototype comments, much better than how I did!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:12:19 Seth *Ben
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:12:28 clearclaw2 Seo: There?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:12:45 RecklessJester thanks, it just made
sense to do it that way
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:12:48 clearclaw2 Seth: That surprised me.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:12:58 clearclaw2 doesn't track anything there.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:13:44 Seth what surprised you?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:14:09 clearclaw2 That you tracked.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:14:11 Seth Your way would make it MUCH easier
to transfer to a BGG entry once one is made
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:14:20 Seth that I tracked Unpublished?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:14:46 Seth well, I was tracking plays of other
games, so it didn't make sense not to
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:15:01 Seth either I wnt to know how many games
I've played, or I don't
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:15:03 Seth you know?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:16:17 clearclaw2 I track, but not for that
reason. My interest is almost entirely in the evolutionary patterns.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:16:33 clearclaw2 So which prototype doesn't
matter much.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:16:34 Seth I use it for vvarious things
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:17:00 Seth what games I've played a lot,
sometimes I look at records, how much gaming I've been doing in general
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:17:11 Seth what games I've not played ina
while
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:17:30 RecklessJester my way also cuts back on
characters, which I know you've had an issue with before
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:17:45 clearclaw2 I usually participate in the
nickel and dime lists, tho I fail to see why.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:18:07 Seth What 5&10 lists?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:18:15 Seth oh, like geeklists people post?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:18:22 Seth I usually don't care for people's
geeklists
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:18:29 clearclaw2 Spielfrieks mostly
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:18:30 Seth occasionally there's an interesting
or useful one
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:18:36 Seth I like the convention report lists
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:18:41 Seth especially if I was at the
convention
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:19:18 clearclaw2 Thinks its the chap down
Fresno way, Mark J-whatever.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:19:34 Seth Johnson?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:19:41 Seth BG2G?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:19:48 Seth BoardGames to Go podcast
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:20:25 clearclaw2 I make sure the GLs for what
was played at the Los Altos gamesdays are complete AIR, but other than that I
mostly ignore GLs. Few of them attempt to do anything useful and discourse is too
damned hard on them.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:20:39 clearclaw2 No idea if he does a podcast.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:21:02 clearclaw2 doesn't track or listen to
any podcasts
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:21:15 Seth I sometimes listen to TheMetagamers
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:21:20 Seth but that's it
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:23:26 clearclaw2 I listed to part of Vasel's
thing but failed to find any content after ~10 minutes and so canned it. A while
back someone did a viceo review of Container, which was again more posturing and
fluff than content. I'm *really* not interested in entertainment, give me
something useful, educational, interesting, belief-challenging, thought-provoking
etc.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:23:33 clearclaw2 s/listed/listened/
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:24:37 clearclaw2 the TED presentations aren't
bad in that line. The quilaity is about as uneven as you'd expect, but that's
forgivable. They're at least trying.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:25:32 clearclaw2 For instance the meme/teme
talk is surprisingly sharp
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:27:24 RecklessJester hasta
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:31:35 clearclaw2 RecklessJester quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:32:35 Seth TED?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:40:31 Zzzzz-home ...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:44:31 clearclaw2 Seth:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fQ_9-Qx5Hz4
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:47:04 clearclaw2 Similarly Edge tends to be
sharp: http://www.edge.org/
pv_34bef9697b49991bd3d02c93fbcf4b63_9eac5905120b12c2c298a85f211b97fe 16/06/2008
17:47:21 seo You there?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 17:47:43 clearclaw2 (close to the only edited
journal I read these days)
17:48:29 Zzzzz-home yo
17:49:03 seo I worked a bit, begun polishing some rules notes
17:49:19 seo what about this:
17:49:35 Zzzzz-home ah nice... i was about to consider working on it now
for an hour, but was not sure if you did anything
17:50:21 Zzzzz-home ugh
17:50:26 Zzzzz-home caht is not working
17:50:47 Zzzzz-home slow slow
17:50:57 seo one shows deck with ~40-48 cards
17:51:08 seo brb
ch_seo 16/06/2008 17:51:21 Zzzzz-home joins seo
ch_seo 16/06/2008 17:51:44 Zzzzz-home ugh
ch_seo 16/06/2008 17:52:01 Zzzzz-home if you said anything I did not see
it, chat flaked
17:52:56 Zzzzz-home ugh
ch_seo 16/06/2008 17:53:03 Zzzzz-home Zzzzz-home quit
17:53:13 Zzzzz-home ok back i think.. you?
17:53:36 seo just a sec (life getting in the middle)
17:54:10 Zzzzz-home yepp sorry
17:56:27 seo np
17:57:26 seo two decks: shows and performers
17:58:09 seo shows deck has 40 show cards and 8 ringmaster cards
17:59:36 seo each show card has three performes in it, you need 2 of
them to score on the outer rings, all three to score the card when in the main ring
18:00:40 seo performer rings deck has ~90 cards
18:00:52 Zzzzz-home i like that
18:01:10 seo some performers x3 and some x6
18:01:13 Zzzzz-home so basically we would place ~16 cards to layout the 3
rings
18:01:20 Zzzzz-home ~16 show cards
18:01:40 seo 18, like my last layout
18:01:42 Zzzzz-home and there will be a combination of performer cards
need to score
18:01:48 Zzzzz-home ok 18
18:02:03 Zzzzz-home that sounds good
18:02:19 seo in the circus each person takes part in many shows
18:02:21 Zzzzz-home do we still need the idea to mark it with
cubes/markers?
18:02:35 seo I think that is a nice thematic touch
18:03:02 Zzzzz-home lets seo complete his entire thought
18:03:07 Zzzzz-home what is going on... the chat is flaked out again for
me
18:03:15 Zzzzz-home ok seem to be back
ch_Zzzzz-home 16/06/2008 18:03:17 seo joins Zzzzz-home
18:03:38 Zzzzz-home yeah the show cards and performer cards is a really
nice tough
18:03:43 Zzzzz-home touch*
18:04:01 seo chat died again
18:04:06 Zzzzz-home maybe
18:04:18 seo Gtalk?
18:04:27 Zzzzz-home yeah..
18:04:58 Zzzzz-home i need to fix this chat... but moving off your server
and into the do not use ever world lol
ch_seo 16/06/2008 18:13:19 Zzzzz-home joins seo
ch_seo 16/06/2008 18:13:36 Zzzzz-home Zzzzz-home quit
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 18:25:04 clearclaw2 !
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 18:32:19 clearclaw2 Susan Blackmore's meme/teme
talk, linekd above, is fairly typical of TED presentations. Not terribly deep but
discursive, investigatory and frequently cross-discipline. See http://www.ted.com/
for other related bits.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 18:39:50 Seth heh...
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 18:41:15 Seth well, I gotta go teach some chick
how to throw
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 18:45:45 clearclaw2 Seth quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:14:49 cocadieta Evening.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:17:42 cocadieta Just stopping in for a quick
hello--busy week. Hard to believe the summer is only going to get busier.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:35:05 seo Blackmore is good.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:36:01 cocadieta She is terrific. Really
charming, very accessible, well-spoken.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:36:25 cocadieta I've been a fan of her since
the Big Brother days.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:36:27 seo Memes are an interesting concept
usually attributed to her, but comes from Dawkins "The Selfish Gene" (which is an
amazing book on genetics and evolution)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:37:14 cocadieta Huh--I'm not sure you're
right about that. I've never heard her named as the inventor of that concept.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:38:17 cocadieta That is a wonderful book.
Dawkins in general is great--his new God Delusion sees him fly off the rails in
somewhat spectacular fashion.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:38:28 seo she was the first to turn Dawkins
concept into a full book and give a lot of thought to the idea
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:39:20 seo I haven't read it yet, but I'm a
fan of his books on genetics
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:39:50 cocadieta This one is about 50% content
and 50% rant.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:41:15 seo I guess I'm not his intended
audience for that book anyway
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:41:57 cocadieta I think his intended audience
has always been anyone who will listen.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:42:14 seo but I just finished reading The
Ancestors Tale a couple months ago, and enjoyed every page
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:43:10 seo heh, but The God Delusion is
specifically intended for religious people who might not realize being atheist is
an option
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:43:31 seo or so he says in the intro
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:44:14 cocadieta He's being a little
disingenuous. Maybe you're supposed to recognize this, as it sets the tone for half
of what follows.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:44:14 seo and I guess it makes sense, no need
to preach to the choir, and he won't convince the Pope either
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:45:02 cocadieta There's a lot of high-fiving,
"aren't we smarter than religious folks?" going on.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:46:16 seo I share some of his reasons for
this campaign, but I think he is doing it wrong
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:49:02 seo exactly for what you point out:
people don't like you to tell them they're wrong
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:49:41 seo if you think they are wrong and
want to help them realize that, screaming "you're wrong" on their faces won't help
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:50:01 cocadieta I think he's doing his best.
The serious work he's done isn't affected by his pop posturing. He'll catch some,
repel others, but help the tide rise regardless.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:51:02 seo OTOH, I think it's alarming that
49% of Americans won't vote for an atheist
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:51:54 seo but then, I'm used to live in a
more or less agnostic country
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:53:55 seo about 40% of the population used to
define themselves as either atheist or agnostics
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:54:45 seo and most of thos who define
themselves as beleivers don't go to any church on a regular basis or anything
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:55:18 conjam joins SpielTalk!
ch_Zzzzz-home 16/06/2008 19:55:33 seo seo quit
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 19:56:20 cocadieta Well, that's not what we've
got here.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 20:03:38 seo I know that!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 20:05:10 Zzzzz-home conjam quit (timeout)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 20:08:54 cocadieta OK, I need to be off. Have a
good night.
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:50:09 Seth Good timing
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:50:14 Seth I just sat down
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:50:17 seo I think I have a playtesting
group :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:50:18 Seth I tricked myself this morning
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:50:31 seo how?
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:51:38 seo you can't hook me like that and go
away!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:52:08 seo I have to go to bed but want to
know the rest of the story!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:52:12 seo Seth!
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:52:14 Seth My bathtub hasn't been cleaned in
forever, and it was kinda gross
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:52:28 Seth so this morning after my shower I
just dumped some Comet in there
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:52:42 Seth so that when I got home from
conditioning I'd have no choice but to clean it before I could take a shower
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:53:10 Seth This is the 2nd time I've done that
(I think I chronicled the last one in my blog)
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:53:21 Seth it's a good trick
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:53:29 Seth but I am now out of comet :(
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:54:03 Seth k, goodnight. I'll talk to you
tomorrow
ch_SpielTalk! 16/06/2008 21:54:23 seo you can buy more tomorrow
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 00:49:54 Seth damn
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 00:50:04 Seth QWG not interested in All For One
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 00:50:23 Seth they still say they are potentially
interested in TP and Homesteaders though
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 01:06:34 Seth How many hours different is it in
the netherlands?
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 01:06:40 Seth I got that email at 10:30
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 01:06:43 Seth pm
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 04:19:59 seo I'm sorry to hear that
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 04:21:40 seo 9 hours more than you, so 7:30 am
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 04:24:58 seo OTOH, that give me another chance
to complete the nice proto
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 04:26:05 seo and once the nice proto is ready,
when you find a publisher I will claim it was due to the nice proto, not the game
itself :-P
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:38:48 Zzzzz-yepp-working OMG!!!
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:39:04 Zzzzz-yepp-working why does it look
like all my hard work for the GDS doc was lost?!?!?!? :(
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:39:37 seo what?
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:39:55 seo same computer?
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:40:01 Zzzzz-yepp-working if I download
directly from the drop box the file did not contain all of my changes
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:40:03 Zzzzz-yepp-working no
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:40:31 Zzzzz-yepp-working if I look at the
*archived* version via the webinterface there is one there that has *more* not sute
if it is all or not yet. reading it now
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:40:38 seo maybe it's a Dropbox updating
problem?
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:40:53 seo lemme check mny copy
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:41:51 Zzzzz-yepp-working well maybe it is
*ok* but the formatting is really screwed up
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:42:03 Zzzzz-yepp-working it seems to be
*merging* lines together... :(
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:42:28 Zzzzz-yepp-working if I open in
wordpad it looks *right*
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:42:58 seo something to do with escape chars,
maybe?
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:43:06 seo looks ok to me
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:43:28 Zzzzz-yepp-working maybe... something
rtf specific I would guess, anyways my panic is over now.
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:43:54 seo good
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:44:04 Zzzzz-yepp-working and can I tell you
that I was *in trouble* last night
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:44:24 seo sorry to hear that
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:44:27 Zzzzz-yepp-working the wife is pretty
upset that I ignore her a bit too much
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:44:35 Zzzzz-yepp-working not your fault, i
zoned out
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:44:39 seo it happens
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:44:54 Zzzzz-yepp-working it happens ever
time she watches a dumb reality show
pv_04f8b6e33609ba4a4d9e803148f06a4f_bab1498dbaa383bb56d99c6ba782d971 17/06/2008
05:45:07 seo found an error under Hire Ringmaster: "A playeok I have to
r may"
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:45:10 Zzzzz-yepp-working and I told her if
you watch *that crap* what do you expect me to do?
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:45:35 seo which one?
05:45:54 Zzzzz-yepp-working interesting might have been me typing a
note to you, but into the file and not chat lol
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:46:02 seo I do the same when my wife watches
the dancing or skating ones
05:46:27 seo I guess it was "I have to run"
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:46:27 Zzzzz-yepp-working i dunno i think
last night was *The Bacholorette (sp not right here...)
05:46:30 seo :-)
05:46:48 Zzzzz-yepp-working oh yeah... lol
05:47:04 seo but our audience doesn't need to know of our family
problems :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:47:21 seo oh, those are bad
05:47:35 Zzzzz-yepp-working exactly lol
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:47:47 Zzzzz-yepp-working anyways
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:47:55 seo I got an email from the guy with
114 games
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:48:06 Zzzzz-yepp-working nice... and
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:48:13 seo from my soon to be games group
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:48:27 seo he said some of them are interested
in game design too :-)
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:48:34 Zzzzz-yepp-working oh yeah the wife
was unhappy about the weekly game night too!! and seth wants a
wife/girlfriend... :P
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:49:07 seo Seth wants a GAMER whife
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:49:12 seo AND get published
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:49:25 seo I wonder why he doesn't want to win
the lottery too
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:49:26 Zzzzz-yepp-working ah true
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:50:13 seo anyway, things look promising with
these guy(s)
05:50:15 Zzzzz-yepp-working hey should *Complete a Show* maybe be
*Perform a Show*? This sort of makes thematic sense, your apply your performers to
perform the show....
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:50:25 Zzzzz-yepp-working good good
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:50:29 seo I might end up having a local game
designers group
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:50:43 Zzzzz-yepp-working and soon you will
be so busy with them you will no longer be around here :(
05:50:44 seo yes, Perform a show sounds much better
05:50:58 Zzzzz-yepp-working ok just checking
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:51:10 seo ah, no. This is my first love and
my second home
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:51:36 Zzzzz-yepp-working mine too, though
the wife would rather it not be right now lol
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:52:50 seo plus, working on my own, you guys
are like my coworkers, since I'm more or less talking with you all day as I work
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:53:22 seo brb
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:58:17 seo back
ch_SpielTalk! 17/06/2008 05:58:40 Zzzzz-yepp-working ok
05:58:50 Zzzzz-yepp-working i think i have the updates complete for
the rules
05:59:24 Zzzzz-yepp-working as a sanity check I will print them out
in a few minutes and read then on paper to see if they make sense to me
05:59:33 Zzzzz-yepp-working read them*
05:59:51 Zzzzz-yepp-working and once again I have to say, the core
mechanic is very intriguing
06:00:08 seo cool, I'll give them a thorough read and add some images
06:00:12 Zzzzz-yepp-working if you look at the rules they are pretty
simple, yet you are really able to do many things that influence the game
06:00:26 seo intriguing interesting or intriguing it makes no sense? ;-)
06:00:33 Zzzzz-yepp-working lol
06:00:37 Zzzzz-yepp-working interesting
06:00:47 Zzzzz-yepp-working if you look at our scoring/end game
06:00:49 Zzzzz-yepp-working it is this :L
06:00:52 Zzzzz-yepp-working :
06:01:07 Zzzzz-yepp-working End game occurs when all shows on the
inner ring have been performed
06:01:12 Zzzzz-yepp-working Scoring :
06:01:32 Zzzzz-yepp-working Outer ring : For each show located on an
outer ring the player who has control (the most player markers located on the show
being scored) is awarded VP equal to the total number of player markers they have
located on the show.
06:01:42 Zzzzz-yepp-working Inner ring : For each show located on an
inner ring the player who has control (the most player markers located on the show
being scored) is awarded VP equal to the 2 times the total number of player markers
they have located on the show.
06:01:53 Zzzzz-yepp-working how easy is that?
06:02:03 Zzzzz-yepp-working pretty easy imo
06:02:13 seo yes
06:02:28 seo I would say "equal to twice the total"
06:02:48 Zzzzz-yepp-working ok make that change when you read through
and update images/etc
06:02:55 seo ok
06:03:04 Zzzzz-yepp-working some areas I need to reword, but that is
why I was going to print it out
06:03:24 Zzzzz-yepp-working i tend to make better edits marking up a
real document, not sure why but that just seems more natural to me
06:03:48 Zzzzz-yepp-working i think there are a couple other areas
that need rework too, but we will flesh it out soon enough
06:03:48 seo I'll work on a copy of your file, and just take notes of
any change I thing is due
06:04:07 seo then we can do a final check out with your changes
06:04:27 Zzzzz-yepp-working sure or honestly just make them on the
dropbox version, it says revisions so we have automatic change tracking on
06:04:36 Zzzzz-yepp-working saves*
06:04:43 seo oh, yeah, I forgot!
06:05:13 Zzzzz-yepp-working and chances are anything you change I
will like so, why not just make them :P
06:06:10 seo at first I was thinking you placed twice the markers on the
inner ring, but it's much better to just SCORE double
06:06:52 Zzzzz-yepp-working yepp
06:06:59 Zzzzz-yepp-working keeps the component count down
06:08:06 seo and adds to the idea that inner ring scores better
06:08:23 Zzzzz-yepp-working exactly
06:09:20 Zzzzz-yepp-working and in theory you could score all 3 rings
differently, if desired, though unneeded for this game
06:09:52 seo agreed
06:10:35 Zzzzz-yepp-working brb
06:10:41 seo I think we should explicity say how to handle the two
shared ring cards (the ones where the ringmasters used to be)
06:10:56 seo IMHO, they are part of the inner ring

Chat 20080617

Uploaded by

Document Information

Original Description:

Original Title

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

Chat 20080617

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

ch_SpielTalk!

30/05/2008 17:19:23 seo I've fancied a couple times the

You might also like