Professional Documents
Culture Documents
The Economies of Take-Off
The Economies of Take-Off
The Economies of Take-Off
Proceedings of a Conference
held by the International Economic Association
EDITED BY
W. W. ROSTOW
PALGRAVE MACMILLAN
ISBN 978-1-349-00228-3 ISBN 978-1-349-00226-9 (eBook)
DOI 10.1007/978-1-349-00226-9
Published by
THE MACMILLAN PRESS LTI>
London and Basingstoke
Associated companies in New York Dublin
AIelbourne Johannesburg and A1adras
CHAP.
1. LEADING SECTORS AND THE TAKE-OFF. W. W. Rostow 1
2. NoTES ON THE TAKE-OFF. S. Kuznets 22
3. INDUSTRIALIZATION IN THE UNITED STATES (1815-60).
D. C. North 44
4. THE TAKE-OFF IN BRITAIN. H. J. Habakkuk and Phyllis
Deane 63
5. GOVERNMENT AcTIVITY AND INDUSTRIALIZATION IN GER-
MANY (1815-70). W. Fischer 83
6. THE TAKE-OFF IN GERMANY. W. G. Hoffmann 95
7. THE TAKE-OFF HYPOTHESIS AND FRENCH EXPERIENCE. J.
Marczewski 119
8. THE TAKE-OFF IN JAPAN (1868-1900). S. Tsuru 139
9. THE EARLY PHASES OF INDUSTRIALIZATION IN RussiA:
AFTERTHOUGHTS AND COUNTERTHOUGHTS. A. Gerschenkron 151
10. POPULATION GROWTH AND THE TAKE-OFF HYPOTHESIS. H.
Leibenstein 170
11. TECHNICAL PROGRESS, THE PRODUCTION FUNCTION, AND
DEVELOPMENT. H. Leibenstein 185
12. AGRARIAN STRUCTURE AND TAKE-OFF. M. Boserup 201
13. AGRICULTURE AND EcoNOMIC DEVELOPMENT. 0. G. de
BulhOes 225
14. CAPITAL FoRMATION IN THE TAKE-OFF. A. K. Cairncross 240
15. SociAL OVERHEAD CAPITAL AND EcoNOMIC GROWTH. P. H.
Cootner 261
16. FOREIGN CAPITAL AND TAKE-OFF. K. E. Berrill 285
SuMMARY REcoRD OF THE DEBATE. D. C. Hague 301
INDEX 477
v
ACKNOWLEDGMEN TS
The International Economic Association wishes to
thank all those who did much to ensure the success of
the Conference recorded in this volume. Special grati-
tude is due to the management and staff of the Insel
Hotel at Konstanz where the Conference was held in a
most beautiful setting. That the weather was throughout
unkind was no possible fault of theirs.
vii
LIST OF PARTICIPANTS
Dr. 0. Aukrust
Midtasen 55, Ljan, Oslo, Norway
Professor Ragnar Bentzel
Handelshogskolan i Stockholm, Sveavagen 65, Stockholm,
Sweden
Mr. Kenneth Berrill
St. Catharine's College, Cambridge
Dr. H. C. Bos
Netherlands Economic Institute, Pieter de Hoochweg 122,
Rotterdam, Netherlands
Dr. Mogens Boserup
4 Route de Chancy, Geneva, Switzerland
Professor Jacques Boudeville
29 rue Jasmin, Paris 168 , France
Professor Octavio Bulhoes
Brazilian Institute of Economics, Funda~ao Getulio Vargas,
Praia de Botafogo 186, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Professor A. K. Cairncross
Department of Social and Economic Research, University of
Glasgow, 12 Bute Gardens, Glasgow W.2, U.K.
Professor C. M. Cipolla
Facolta di Economia e Commercio, lstituto Universitario di
Venezia, Ca' Foscari, Venice, Italy
Dr. Paul Cootner
Center for International Studies, Massachusetts Institute of
Technology, 50 Memorial Drive, Cambridge 39, Mass.,
U.S.A.
Miss Phyllis Deane
Department of Applied Economics, 7 West Road, Cambridge,
U.K.
Professor Dr. D. Delivanis
50 Jan Smuts, Athens, Greece
Professor Leon Dupriez
Institut de Recherches economiques et sociales, Universite de
Louvain, Place Mgr Ladeuze, Louvain, Belgium
Professor Luc Fauvel
31 his rue Campagne Premiere, Paris 148 , France
ix
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
Professor Dr. Wolfram Fischer
Sozialforschungsstelle an der Universitat Munster, Rheinland-
damm 199, Dortmund, Germany
Professor Alexander Gerschenkron
Department of Economics, Harvard University, M-7 Littauer
Center, Cambridge 38, Mass., U.S.A.
Professor Eugenio Gudin
Rua da Candelaria 19, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Professor Gottfried Haberler
326 Littauer Center, Harvard University, Cambridge 38, Mass.,
U.S.A.
Professor Douglas Hague
Department of Economics, The University, Sheffield 10, U.K.
Professor Dr. Walther Hoffmann
Institut fiir Industriewirtschaftliche Forschung der Universitat
Munster, Universitatsstrasse 14-16, Munster, Westf., Ger-
many
Professor Emile James
6 avenue de Segur, Paris 7e, France
Professor Dr. W. A. Johr
Goethestrasse 77, St. Gallen, Switzerland
Professor Simon Kuznets
333 Tuscany Road, Baltimore 10, Maryland, U.S.A.
Professor David Landes
Department of History, University of California, Berkeley 4,
California, U.S.A.
Professor Harvey Leibenstein
Department of Economics, University of California, Berkeley 4,
California, U.S.A.
Professor W. A. Lewis
University College of the West Indies, Mona, Kingston 7,
Jamaica, West Indies
Professor Edward Lipinski
Rakowiecka 6 m. 26, Warsaw, Poland
Professor Erik Lundberg
Borjesonsvagen 42, Bromma, Stockholm, Sweden
Professor Jean Marczewski
46 rue de Rennes, Paris 6e, France
Dr. Gautam Mathur
55 Grantchester Street, Cambridge, U.K.
Professor Dr. Fritz Neumark
Gesellschaft fur Wirtschafts- und Sozialwissenschaften, Merton-
strasse 17, Frankfurt-am-Main, Germany
X
List of Participants
Professor Douglass C. North
Institute for Economic Research, University of Washington,
Seattle 5, Washington, U.S.A.
Professor E. A. G. Robinson
The Marshall Library, Downing Street, Cambridge, U.K.
Professor W. W. Rostow
Center for International Studies, Massachusetts Institute of
Technology, 50 Memorial Drive, Cambridge 39, Mass.,
U.S.A.
Dr. H. W. Singer
Department of Economic Affairs, United Nations, New York,
N.Y., U.S.A.
Professor Robert Solow
Department of Economics and Social Research, Massachusetts
Institute of Technology, Cambridge 38, Mass., U.S.A.
Professor S. Tsuru
Institute of Economic Research, Hitotsubashi University,
Kunitachi, Tokyo, Japan
Observer
Mrs. G. Podbielski
Research and Planning Division, U.N. Economic Commission
for Europe, Geneva, Switzerland
Xl
INTRODUCTION AND EPILOGUE
Bv W. W. ROSTOW
I
Re-reading the papers and Professor Hague's summary of the
discussion I believe that in this volume the conference speaks well
for itself. The Association succeeded in bringing together a distin-
guished group of historians, specializing on particular nations ;
statisticians ; theorists ; and experts on functional aspects of
growth. They answered, each from his own perspective, the
question : Is the concept of take-off useful, misleading, or wrong ?
In so doing they laid on the table their latest reflections on the pro-
cess of economic growth and, either implicitly or explicitly, their
own analytic approaches to the problem. Those contributions are,
evidently, the principal justification for the volume.
As for the take-off, it will have to look after itself. Each reader
will make his own assessment of the debate. Like all intellectual
constructs it will survive only if it meets the hard pragmatic test of
usefulness to others - if it illuminates problems that deeply concern
them. No market is- or should be- more ruthlessly competitive
than the market-place of ideas, even though, as the record of this
conference suggests, it is an oligopolistic market ; that is, the coming
in of a new idea is felt by the other producers to involve a potential
shift in the shape of the demand curve that confronts their own
products, and they react appropriately. As I remarked at one point
in the debate, the introduction of a new concept - especially a new
term - is an act of aggression against respected colleagues and
xiii
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
friends. Both at the time - and in retrospect - I found the debate
instructive.
Taking stock of the papers and the discussion at this distance I
shall use this occasion to do two things. First, I shall reply more
spaciously than the discussion permitted to Professor Kuznets'
criticism of the take-off. His approach was not only more frontal,
but also embraced many of the issues raised by others. Beyond
Professor Kuznets' four grand questions, the summary of the dis-
cussion contains, by and large, what I would still wish to say about
the other papers, with one exception - Professor Solow's final
statement. My second purpose will be, therefore, to respond briefly
to his interesting challenge to re-formulate the take-off concept in
terms an economic theorist is likely to find more comprehensible.
II
The first of Professor Kuznets' questions is whether there is a
sharp rise in the investment rate during take-off and a sharp rise in
the rate of growth of total national product.
He begins with an 'implicit' conclusion; namely, that the take-
off should see a sharp rise in total national product. In fact, a rise
in the rate of investment need not yield an equivalent acceleration
in national product. The magnitudes are not rigorously related in
the short period; and even over the long period capital-output ratios
may vary. Moreover, forces may be operating during the take-off
which yield stagnation or even decline in certain massive sectors of
the economy (for example, within agriculture, in agricultural surplus
areas); and these could damp or even overwhelm the effects on real
product of the rise in the rate of investment in social overhead
capital and industry.
In the general case, I am confident that the data - if we had
them - would exhibit an acceleration in national product during the
take-off years ; but I shall confine my observations here to the
movement of the investment rate during take-off.
In presenting the notion of the take-off, I pointed out the follow-
ing factors which might alter what we might call 'pure Arthur Lewis'
(or 5-10 per cent) behaviour of the investment rate during the
take-off.
( 1) Variations as among nations in the rate of population
increase.
(2) Variations in the level of investment required for social
overhead capital (mainly transport) in the pre-take-off and
take-off decades.
xiv
Introduction and Epilogue
(3) Variations in the capital-output ratio.
(4) The enclave case; that is, a high rate of investment in a
narrow region or export sector, with very damped effect-
if any - on the economy as a whole.
In addition, I noted a difficulty which has evidently not been
remedied and may prove beyond remedy ; that is, we do not have
reliable investment data for the pre-take-off decades in most
societies.
The reader may also recall that I referred to the rise in the invest-
ment rate during take-off as a 'necessary but not sufficient condition
for the take-off'; and in the summary of the stages of economic
growth (Economic History Review), I referred to the achievement of
a sustained rate of net investment of the order of 10 per cent as an
'essentially tautological' way of defining take-off.
What is the point here ? The point is that within normal ranges
of population increase and of the capital-output ratio, a regular and
substantial increase in national product per head requires, by
definition, a net investment rate of something like 10 per cent. We
can find cases where such rates persisted in pre-take-off decades,
usually because of heavy outlays for long-distance transport or
because of limited enclaves of modern economic activity. There is
nothing in the take-off analysis as a whole to make a shift in the
investment rate itself a crucial test of the take-off.
On the other hand, I am confident that a rise in the investment
rate will prove to be a normal take-off phenomenon, when more
evidence is available. Of its nature, the take-off process is likely to
bring about a rise in the investment rate for three reasons. The
rise will come about in part through the plough-back of profits in
the rapidly industrializing sectors ; that is, in the leading sectors
themselves and those directly linked to them, where a high marginal
rate of saving is likely to prevail.
It will come about also from the more widespread expansion of
investment in modern sectors that the acceleration of urbanization
(and the probable rise in per capita income) during take-off are
likely to bring about.
And the usually substantial role of governments during the take-
off - notably in mobilizing social overhead capital- is likely to
reinforce the other two tendencies.
I submit that a careful scrutiny of both contemporary and
historical data - where they exist - including the data on Great
Britain, Germany, Sweden, and Japan in this volume are consistent
with this view : the investment rate is likely to rise during take-off ;
the extent of the rise will vary with specific factors, notably the scale
XV
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
of social overhead requirements ; but a rise in the investment rate
is not the sole relevant criterion for take-off.
Behind this argument lies my disagreement with the following
passage from Professor Kuznets' paper : 'All that is claimed here is
that aggregative data for a number of countries do not support
Professor Rostow' s distinction and characterization of the "take-
off" stage. On the other hand, the fact that the evidence is confined
to aggregative data does not limit their bearing. Economic growth
is an aggregative process ; sectoral changes are interrelated with
aggregative changes, and can be properly weighted only after they
have been incorporated into the aggregative framework ; and the
absence of required aggregative changes severely limits the likelihood
of the implicit strategic sectoral changes.'
With this I disagree. Modern economic growth is essentially a
sectoral process. It is rooted in the progressive diffusion of the
production functions modern technology can provide. These
changes in technique and organization can only be studied sectorally.
The sectors are, of course, intimately interrelated ; and changes in
income flows play a role ; but the aggregates - like any other index
number - merely sum up the performance of the sectors. Put
another way - of course growth is, in one sense and on one defini-
tion, an aggregative concept ; that is, it consists in a regular expansion
of output per head. But without sectoral analysis we cannot explain
why growth occurs. I would not, of course, abandon the aggregates.
But to confine growth analysis to them is to play the piano while
wearing mittens.
III
Professor Kuznets' second point follows from his first : 'There
is no clear distinction between the "pre-conditions" and the
"take-off" stages'.
In presenting the concept of take-off, I sought to make clear that
it flowed directly from the form of sectoral analysis I developed in
The Process of Economic Growth and, in particular, it derived from the
notion of leading sectors in growth analysis elaborated from The Process
and first presented at the lEA Conference at Santa Marguerita in 1955.
Contrast, if you will, these two passages. First from Professor
Kuznets' 'Notes' (p. 28):
'But a review of the empirical evidence on this point
rthat is, on leading sectors] holds little interest if I am correct in
assuming that the major distinctive characteristic of the 'take-
off' is a marked rise in the rate of growth of per capita and hence
of total income.'
XVI
Introduction and Epilogue
Second, from the conclusion of the take-off article in the Economic
Journal (1956):
'This hypothesis is, then, a return to a rather old-fashioned
way of looking at economic development. The take-off is defined
as an industrial revolution, tied directly to radical changes in
methods of production, having their decisive consequence over a
relatively short period of. time. . . . What this argument asserts
is that the rapid growth of one or more new manufacturing sectors
is a powerful and essential engine of economic transformation.
Its power derives from the multiplicity of its forms of impact,
when a society is prepared to respond positively to this impact.
Growth in such sectors, with new production functions of high
productivity, in itself tends to raise output per head; it places
incomes in the hands of men who will not merely save a high
proportion of an expanding income but who will plough it into
highly productive investment ; it sets up a chain of effective
demand for other manufactured products ; it sets up a require-
ment for enlarged urban areas, whose capital costs may be high,
but whose population and market organization help to make
industrialization an on-going process; and, finally, it opens up a
range of external economy effects which, in the end, help to pro-
duce new leading sectors when the initial impulse of the take-off's
leading sectors begins to wane.'
This is the central proposition. I believe the national product and
investment aggregates will normally reflect this complex sectoral
process. But we must look directly at the take-off process in the
sectors, not at the aggregates alone.
It is possible that we have all been so deeply committed by the
Keynesian revolution (and by Marx' economic analysis) to think in
terms of two-sector models - in which output is broken down into
consumption and capital goods ; income, into spending and saving
- that there is a perhaps unconscious resistance to overcome before
we are prepared to enter deeply into sectoral analysis. Both theoreti-
cal and statistical analysts would, evidently, prefer to stay with the
large aggregates.
The point takes on a certain drama because, in my own education,
I derived much from the early work of Professor Kuznets on secular
trends in prices and production. As my paper for this conference
suggests, I moved on from his analysis of deceleration in individual
sectors to examine the various spreading effects which flow from
them. When this is done systematically, the over-all sequence of
growth becomes not merely a matter of movement in the aggregates ;
it becomes a succession of surges, in clustered sectors, linked in turn
xvii
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
to the sequence of leading sectors which mark the story of modern
economic history.
This is the view, I submit, which is implicit or explicit in the
work of most economic historians of particular nations ; this is the
view which, in the end, underlies the most pertinent generalized
insights in the work of Schumpeter and Walther Hoffmann; and
this is the view which once caught the imagination of Professor
Kuznets himself, as the long footnote quotation on pp. 3-4 of
my paper will indicate.
In a quite technical and literal sense, the stages of growth analysis
is in part - on the supply side - an elaboration of Kuznets' early
judgment that : 'As we observe the various industries within a given
national system, we see that the lead in development shifts from one
branch to another'.
Let me relate this argument to the distinction in time between
the take-off and the pre-conditions periods. How were the take-off
dates set ? As I say in the paper submitted to the conference :
'. . . working with historical data, I have sought to use the full
range of quantitative and nonquantitative materials available to
form an approximate judgment as to when the rate and scale of a
leading sector's growth has been such as to induce substantial
further expansion in the economy, also of high momentum, via
its backward and lateral linkages. The take-off dates I have
tentatively offered on other occasions are the product of such
investigations of the total impact of the initial group of leading
sectors in the industrialization process of particular economies.
It is the coming in of the first leading sector (or sectors), on a scale
and with a momentum to induce substantial spreading effects
which creates the sa/tum economies sometimes execute.
'Now a major proviso. It cannot be too strongly emphasized
that the secondary effects of rapid growth in a sector suffused with
new technology are not automatic. They are potential effects
which require active exploitation by a society's men and institu-
tions. In fact, one measure of a society's ability to move into
sustained economic growth is its ability to seize upon and to exploit
with vigour all three types of potentiality which flow from a
leading sector.
' . . . Growth is, thus, only an automatic process if one can
assume that a society will respond actively and effectively to the
potentials for growth available to it.
'In the light of this argument, the take-off must be defined in
two steps : first, it is the period in the life of an economy when,
for the first time, one or more modern industrial sectors take hold,
with high rates of growth, bringing in not merely new production
functions but backward and lateral spreading effects on a sub-
xviii
Introduction and Epilogue
stantial scale ; second, for a take-off to be said to have occurred,
the economy must demonstrate the capacity to exploit the forward
linkages as well, so that new leading sectors emerge as the older
ones decelerate. It is this demonstration of the capacity to shift
from one set of leading sectors to another which distinguished
abortive industrial surges of the transition period from a true
take-off. This functional requirement has determined that the
take-off be defined as embracing, say, a 20-year interval. Some
such substantial period is necessary to demonstrate that a society
is capable of overcoming the structural crisis which the initial
surge of growth is likely to bring and is capable of introducing the
changing flow of technology upon which sustained growth
depends.'
I would be gratified - and I am sure Professor Kuznets would
be easier in mind - if I could offer a straightforward statistical test ;
for example, the period of maximum rate of growth in a designated
leading sector. But the problem is not that easy. First, the maxi-
mum rate of growth for a new industry is likely to come at a time
when its scale is not significant enough to induce the spreading
effects which are key to the take-off analysis. Second, the spreading
effects themselves are difficult to trace with statistical precision,
notably what I call the lateral and forward effects.
Nevertheless the spreading effects are keyed to the notion of leading
sectors. Professor Kuznets' mathematical illustration (pp. 29-30)
of the limited impact of one or two high growth sectors on the
industrial production index misses this point. The industrial
growth directly and indirectly induced by the surge in British cotton
production in the last two decades of the eighteenth century or
induced by the railway surge in the United States in the two decades
before the Civil War cannot be estimated by looking at cotton or
railway statistics alone.
In the present state of knowledge, then, the estimate of when a
take-off occurs cannot be a simple statistical exercise, although it
requires the use of all the statistical data available. One must
examine the whole performance of an economy to satisfy oneself
that it is responding actively to the potential spreading effects which
derive from the leading sectors. It follows from this fact that there
is a margin of legitimate debate about when a take-off should be
dated.
In presenting the take-off, I referred explicitly to two problems,
both of which bear on Professor Kuznets' feeling that the line
between pre-conditioning and take-off may be fuzzy.
One is the case of an abortive industrial surge which does not
lead on to self-sustained growth. Many nations have experienced
xix
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
such surges: the United States during the Napoleonic Wars, for
example ; India in the last decade of the nineteenth and the early
twentieth century ; Brazil in the period 1901-12 ; Argentina and
China during the First World War. The subsequent periods of
stagnation or relapse are so clear in such cases that they do not
present great difficulty.
The more difficult problem is what one might call the problem
of the decade preceding take-off - a problem referred to in the
original take-off article. The surges of industrial growth which
marked the take-off did not, of course, arise out of the blue. The
take-off, in my view, is a recognizable discontinuity in the stream
of history ; but it is not a process without a history.
The pre-take-off decades are, generally, dominated by changes
in the economy and in the society as a whole which are essential
for later growth. These changes are likely to involve the training
of new men ; alterations in agricultural institutions and techniques ;
an expansion of trade at home and abroad, an expansion of cities ;
and in many cases there are important political changes as well in
the pre-take-off decades which are necessary before take-off can
begin. But, of course, there is likely also to be some expansion in
industrial output.
In Britain the years of war with the United States ease the prob-
lem ; that is, there is, despite much industrial ferment, not much
basis for including the 177o's in the take-off. But what about the
183o's for the United States; the 184o's for Germany ; the 186o's
for Sweden; the 188o's for Russia?
These are all, in my view, debatable cases on my sectoral defini-
tion of take-off. I have examined the evidence and weighed it. I
have concluded that, on balance, the scale of the leading sectors and
the extent of their spreading effects in these preceding decades do
not justify their inclusion in the take-off ; and that the activities
dominating the economy in these intervals were primarily non-
industrial, typical of the pre-conditioning process rather than the
take-off. But I do not regard my assessments of each case as final
or beyond challenge.
Of its nature, this is a problem that can only be dealt with case
by case ; and the country papers included in this book provide an
opportunity to do so. What I would say here is, simply, that the
quite tractable problem of 'the preceding decade' is the only problem
I perceive in distinguishing, in particular cases, the pre-conditions
from the take-off.
XX
Introduction and Epilogue
IV
Professor Kuznets' third point is the following : 'The analysis
of the take-off and pre-conditions stage neglects the effect of historical
heritage, time of entry into the process of modern economic growth,
degree of backwardness, and other relevant factors on the character-
istics of the early phases of modern economic growth in the different
traditional countries'.
I would not agree that I have neglected these factors, if by neg-
lect is meant a failure to consider them, to refer to them, and to make
certain preliminary observations about them. The problem may
arise from the fact that Professor Kuznets focused his attention
on the take-off article published in The Economic Journal in 1956
rather than on Chapter III in The Stages of Economic Growth.
Moreover he did not have available the paper focused directly on
the dynamics of traditional societies I presented to the Stockholm
Conference of 1960, nor the still more ambitious communal effort
to order the preconditioning process, to which I contributed : The
Emerging Nations (Boston, 1961, ed. M. F. Millikan and D. L. M.
Blackmer).
If by neglect Professor Kuznets means that there is much more
to be done in trying to make order of the interval between the first
modern intrusion on a traditional society and the period of take-off,
I whole-heartedly agree.
The key economic problems of the pre-conditions are, I believe,
fairly straightforward and familiar. I list them as a sequence on
pp. 8-9 of my paper for this conference. They appear in different
form in each nation, of course, depending on its prior economic
history, population-resource balance, etc. But I do not believe the
strict economics of the pre-conditions period will present us with
great difficulties, if we choose to do systematic cross-comparisons
of national experiences.
The great challenge in the analysis of the pre-conditioning process
will lie, I believe, in its non-economic dimensions : the psycho-
logical, social, and political processes which interact with each other
and with. economic change, to move societies from their own parti-
cular version of a traditional society to their own particular version
of a growing society. Here, I would simply agree that, although I
have had somewhat more to say about the range of problems than
Professor Kuznets' stricture would imply, we all have more work to
do.
xxi
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
v
Professor Kuznets' fourth point, concerns the question of how
self-sustained growth really is. Here I shall simply quote the most
relevant passage from my paper for this conference which attempts
to deal with this important and wholly legitimate query :
'. . . To what extent is growth truly automatic after the take-
off ? In one sense, it follows directly from the fact of deceleration
that growth is not automatic. If, on this view, a society is to
sustain a high average rate of growth, it must engage in an endless
struggle against deceleration ; for while the flow of modern
science and technology may offer the potentiality of fending off
Ricardian diminishing returns indefinitely, a society which wishes
to exploit this potentiality must repeat the creative pain of actually
introducing new production functions as the old leading sectors
decelerate ; and it must demonstrate the capacity to exploit with
vigour their potential spreading effects. In this sense sustained
growth requires the repetition of the take-off process. (A point
made in the original take-off article.) It requires the organization
around new technology of new and vigorous management ; new
types of workers ; new types of financing and marketing arrange-
ments. It requires struggle not against the constraints of the
traditional society - whose economic bonds are decisively broken
in the take-off - but against constraints created in the previous
generation or two, around the peculiar imperatives of an older
set of leading sectors now no longer capable of carrying the
economy forward at its old pace.
'There is, then, nothing automatic and easy about the inner
mechanics - the logistics, as it were - of sustained growth.
'But in a larger sense, the experience of take-off may, when we
have a longer time perspective, prove to be a definitive transition,
like the loss of innocence. The reason for this judgment is that
behind the whole industrial process lies the acceptance of the
Newtonian outlook, the acceptance of the world of modern science
and technology. Phases of difficulty and even relative stagnation
after the take-off may, of course, occur; and they may be protracted.
'In short, on present historical evidence, it appears fair to say
that the larger psychological, social, technical, and institutional
changes required for a take-off are such as to make it unlikely that
we shall see a true lapsing back. Men in societies must continue
to struggle to keep growth moving forward ; and one of the pur-
poses of this mode of analysis, rooted in leading sectors, is to
specify the nature of that struggle. But the deeper fundamentals
required for an effective take-off appear, on present evidence,
sufficiently powerful to make growth an ongoing process, on long
term. Nevertheless, we still have much to learn about the longer
spans of the industrialization process.'
xxii
Introduction and Epilogue
VI
In the end, Professor Kuznets suggests that we substitute the
notion of the 'early modern growth stage' for the take-off. This is,
evidently, a matter which each of us will decide for himself. I can
understand how a concentration on aggregative evidence might
lead to this view ; and, as I said in the original take-off article :
'from the perspective of the economic historian the isolation of a
take-off period is a distinctly arbitrary process'. A part of my mind
and of my training is wholly sympathetic to the notion that economic
history - like other forms of history - is a seamless web.
To understand why, on balance, I find the notion of take-off
proper and essential, one must go back to what it is that distinguishes
a modern society from a traditional society. Here Professor Kuznets
and I substantially agree. He says : 'Behind all this is the increasing
stock of useful knowledge derived from modern science, and the
capacity of society, under the spur of modern ideology, to evolve
institutions that permit a greater exploitation of the growth potential
provided by that increasing stock of knowledge.'
The history of traditional societies offers us many cases of growth,
including cases of significant changes in production functions.
What is lacking is a more or less regular flow of innovation on a scale
capable of defeating Ricardian diminishing returns and the Mal-
thusian propensities of the people. On this view of what modern
growth is about, the take-off has a particular meaning that transcends
the aggregates and the sectors ; it is the phase when a society
demonstrates the capacity not only to mount an accelerated industrial
surge, but to move on to absorb and apply new production functions
- progressively spreading the techniques that modern technology
can offer, as deceleration operates on the initial leading sectors.
In that sense, the take-off is a definitive watershed in a society's
history : the innovational process has ceased to be sporadic and is
a more or less regular institutionalized part of the society's life.
The demonstration of that capacity gives the take-off a fundamental
historical meaning.
The basic problem that the counterpoint between Professor
Kuznets' and my position poses is this : how shall we relate aggrega-
tive to sectoral analysis; or in the term I derived from Warren
Weaver and used in my paper for the conference, how shall we make
growth analysis a system of 'organized complexity' ? We must come
to understand how the sectoral forces we know to be both relevant
and interrelated link to each other and to the growth process as a whole.
In a sense our task is to relate and to make order of the insights
xxiii
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
of the early and the later work of Professor Kuznets. The later
Kuznets moves from the austere world of reputable statistics, of a
high order of aggregation, to the grand qualitative vision of the
diffusion over the face of the globe of modern science and technology.
The heart of the growth process lies in between, in the interwoven
life of the sectors.
VII
Now, briefly, a word in reply to Professor Solow. He asks:
how can one translate all this fuzzy talk about take-off into something
which an economic theorist can understand and grapple with ; what
are the initial conditions, parameters, and changes in rules of
behaviour which distinguish a take-off from earlier periods?
In one sense, the problem may not be soluble. Economic
growth is the result of an interacting process involving the economic,
social, and political sectors of a society, including the emergence of a
corps of entrepreneurs who are psychologically motivated and
technically prepared regularly to lead the way in introducing new
production functions into the economy.
Economic theory has been, in Warren Weaver's phrase, a world
of 'problems of simplicity' ; and from this fact it has derived its
great power, over a limited range. It may not be able to function
in the world of 'organized complexity', which growth analysis, at
its best, is bound to be. Growth analysts cannot and should not cut
their labours down to the level of simplification, aggregation, and
abstraction which the tools of economic theory require, any more
than they should restrict themselves to the consideration of those
variables only for which reputable statistical measures exist.
On the other hand, formal economic theory has already contri-
buted some substantial insights to growth analysis (e.g. the Harrod-
Domar model and Professor Solow's work on production functions
and 'the residual') ; and the effort at communication should be
pressed from both sides.
Can the take-off concept be expressed, then, in terms of initial
conditions, changes in rules of behaviour, and parameters?
First, the parameters. As a first approximation one can describe
these as three : the rate of population increase, the state of existing
technology, and the availability of known natural resources. In
fact, all are subject to change out of inter-action with the growth
process itself ; but no great violence is done by assuming them
fixed for purposes of formally examining what a take-off is about.
As Professor Solow points out we require a definition. For these
purposes we define the take-off as the period when a society begins
xxiv
Introduction and Epilogue
regularly to absorb new production functions in a setting where the
direct and indirect consequences of this new mode of behaviour
yield a more or less regular increase in output per capita.
Second, the initial conditions. The whole process of the pre-
conditioning is, in a sense, a statement of the initial conditions.
For a society to absorb new production functions in ways which
generate the spreading effects on which the take-off depends requires
massive prior change away from the pattern of the traditional society.
Technically this pre-conditioning embraces a build-up of transport
sufficient to begin to make the markets of the economy interact
quickly and efficiently and to make domestic raw materials available
at tolerable economic cost ; an initial minimum quantum of literate
and technically trained personnel in the working force ; an initial
minimum quantum of power resources, and other overhead capital.
In addition, for take-off to proceed successfully, the bases must be
laid during the pre-conditions period for the generation of increased
flows of agricultural products and, usually, of imports. These are
required both to feed the inevitably expanding urban population and
to meet fixed and working capital requirements which the economy,
at its assumed stage, cannot itself generate.
This whole set of changes in the economy's infra-structure,
working force, its agriculture, and foreign exchange earning (or
borrowing) capacity can be generalized in the proposition that
before take-off can occur there must be, in the widest sense, a certain
minimum prior build-up of social overhead capital if the necessary
spreading effects from the take-off's leading sectors are, in fact, to
occur or if the take-off is not to be distorted or actually aborted by
the lack of adequate flows of working (and fixed) capital in the form
of agricultural products and imports. The scale of this prior mini-
mum build-up will vary from one economy to another depending
on its prior history, geography, natural resources, etc. Both history
(pre-1914 Russia) and the contemporary scene (post-1958 Com-
munist China) indicate that nations have begun take-off without a
balanced stock of pre-conditioning capital, and these structural flaws
raised serious problems for them during the take-off years.
Third, changes in rules of behaviour. The prior build-up of
social overhead capital, in the special generalized sense used above,
is a necessary but not sufficient condition for take-off. There must
also emerge a minimum initial group of entrepreneurs prepared,
in the assumed environment, to launch the take-off's leading sectors
and to react positively, in the sectors linked backward and laterally
to the leading sectors, to the potentials for profit which the momen-
tum of the leading sectors provide. Their central differentiating
XXV
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
characteristic resides in their willingness and ability to introduce new
production functions. They can be either public servants or private
entrepreneurs ; but the innovations required in the social overhead
sectors (including, for these purposes, agriculture and the generation
of adequate flows of foreign exchange) has usually decreed that
entrepreneurs, as here defined, emerge in both.
Technically, it is the inescapable role of the state in these social
overhead functions that justifies the proposition, stated in The
Stages of Economic Growth, that the most important pre-condition
for take-off is often political.
Thus, one can say to Professor Solow that take-off requires by
way of initial conditions the prior build-up at a certain minimum
quantum of social overhead capital, to provide the technical condi-
tions for the requisite spreading effects ; and it requires a change in
rules of behaviour such that new production functions available are
actually brought to bear in the capital stock, within the initial leading
sectors and those linked backward and laterally to them.
The resulting path of change in output per head will be deter-
mined by the parameters, as well as by the scale and efficiency of
the entrepreneurial corps, in the public and private sectors - effi-
ciency being measured by the rate at which they close the gap between
existing relevant technology and pre-take-off technology in the
economy. At this stage, as Professor Solow properly reminds us,
the path of growth will be affected by the consumption function and
conventional income analysis comes into its own.
I am not clear whether this abstracted reformulation will permit
economic theorists to grip the take-off analysis in ways interesting
for them ; but Professor Solow's brilliant final statement justifies
the effort.
XXV1
Chapter 1
W. W. ROSTOW
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
I. INTRODUCTORY
THE purpose of this chapter is to clarify the basic economic
mechanism which underlies the notion of the take-off - the idea
of leading sectors - and to relate the workings of this mechanism
to the other conditions required for take-off.
The exposition proceeds as follows : Part I examines the theo-
retical and empirical foundations for the concept of leading sectors.
Part II relates the leading sector mechanism to the take-off. Part
III considers how the initial leading sectors link to the other
variables which help determine when and how a take-off occurs.
Part IV presents certain concluding observations.
(i) Population
The rate of population increase is only obliquely linked to the
leading sectors of take-off ; and it is not linked in any simple or
systematic way. This judgment can be illustrated with respect to
the three directions in which population increase influences the
growth process ; i.e. via the population-resource balance, the
industrial labour supply, and the level of effective demand.
II
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
With respect to the population-resource balance, a very high
rate of population increase in a setting where good agricultural land
is limited may require excessive diversion of domestic resources and
foreign exchange into food supply and may thus delay or damp the
build-up of social overhead capital, the acquisition of foreign ex-
change for industrial purposes, and the coming of momentum in
modern industrial sectors. But it does not follow that ample supplies
of good land automatically accelerated the coming in of industrial
sectors of high momentum. As the early history of the United
States, Canada, and Argentina suggest, a highly favourable popula-
tion-resource balance, even when accompanied by high rates of
population increase, may make so attractive a continued concentration
on food and raw material production that industrialization may be
delayed. Moreover, we can observe in cases of both weak and
strong population pressure on resources (e.g. the United States of
the 1850's and Russia of the 1890's) that the installation of a large-
scale railway net can trigger the expansion of a cluster of industrial
sectors, if the society is otherwise prepared to respond positively to
the potential stimulating impulses railways provide.
Population pressure also relates, of course, to the problem of
labour supply to industry. Francis Cabot Lowell's most difficult
problem in creating a viable factory system in the Boston area, was
to recruit a working force under circumstances where the alternative
of good land was available to virtually all who wished to farm ; and
some part of the low growth rate of France after 1848 relative to
Germany, is to be explained by the relatively light pressure on land
caused by a damped population increase, and the consequently
lesser flow of rural men to the cities. In most cases, however, the
problem of recruiting an adequate industrial work force has not been
a decisive variable in determining when industrialization takes hold.
In none of the historical cases examined in this book - excepting
perhaps the regional case of New England- did the lack of labour
supply present a direct inhibition on the emergence of leading sectors.
The most general proposition would appear to be that ample
supplies of cheap labour provide a basis for effective competition
with more advanced economies, once the other conditions for an
industrial surge have been established, notably the emergence of
industrial entrepreneurs, an adequate mastery of existing industrial
technology, and aa ability to organize the minimum training required
to create an industrial working force.
The rate of population increase enters into still another dimen-
sion of the growth process through its effects on the size of the
domestic market and the rate of increase of domestic demand. In
12
Rostow- Leading Sectors and the Take-off
a setting such as Britain in the second half of the eighteenth century,
where increased social overhead capital was being created and an
increase in agricultural productivity was maintaining or improving
the level of food supply, a rising population can be an important
stimulus from the side of demand to the development of industries
with high income elasticity of demand, at low income levels ; e.g.
beer brewing and textile manufacture. And even when income per
head is not rising, the price elasticity of demand (perhaps made
effective by protective tariffs) can provide a market basis for indus-
trialization, under conditions of rapid population increase. But,
once again, the outcome depends on the relation between population
increase and other variables: there is, evidently, no automatic
market connexion between population increase and the emergence
of leading sectors rooted in an expanding effective domestic demand.
(ii) Agriculture
An increase in agricultural production and productivity plays a
multiple role in economic development which can hardly be over-
estimated. 1
(a) The income above minimum consumption levels incor-
porated in land rents, and usually sterilized or used at low produc-
tivity in traditional or transitional societies, must be diverted into
the modern sector and become part of the basis for building social
overhead capital or (less frequently) for expanding directly modern
industry.
(b) Increased domestic food supplies are needed to meet the
increase in population and accelerated urbanization, which are
almost universal characteristics of the pre-take-off period, without
causing an excessive drain on foreign exchange. And in cases
where resource endowments permit an agricultural surplus, an in-
crease in agricultural productivity can earn the increased foreign
exchange which economic modernization as a whole demands.
(c) Increased agricultural productivity may be required to pro-
vide a basis of increased income per head in order to provide either
an enlarged domestic market for consumer goods or increased
popular taxation without a repression of rural living standards.
More narrowly, developments in agriculture may relate quite
directly to the emergence of leading industrial sectors, in one of the
three following ways.
Agriculture as an Input to a Leading Sector. The gathering
momentum of the British cotton textile industry in the 1780's set
1 See Stages of Economic Growth, pp. 21-4.
13
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
up a requirement for an enlarged and cheapened supply of raw
cotton, to which the cotton gin and the spread of the plantation
system in the American South was a direct response. This new
source of cheap supply helped permit the British cotton textile
industry to exploit the high price and income elasticity of textile
demand on a world basis and thus to attain the scale and spreading
effects within Britain, which justify its status as the leading sector
in the British take-off.
Agriculture and the Foreign Balance. Agriculture has served as
an indirect input to leading sectors by earning foreign exchange for
industrialization, and by providing a basis on which foreign loans
could be persuasively negotiated, which permitted, in turn, the rapid
construction of railway systems which served as leading sectors in
take-off. American cotton and wheat, Japanese silk, and Russian
wheat played this role in the respective take-offs of the three countries.
Leading Sectors as Inputs to Agriculture. There is a sense in
which the second and decisive decade of the American take-off (the
1850's) and the pre-1914 Russian take-oF. were triggered by the
transport requirements for exploiting the grain fields of both coun-
tries. The first phase of accelerated industrialization was, to a
degree, a by-product of an agricultural revolution. The rising
world grain prices of the 1850's and the late 1890's made the massive
laying of rail lines attractive ; and the direct and indirect conse-
quences of railroadization, pushed both nations into take-off. Rail-
roadization was well under way in the United States in the 1840's
and in Russia in the 1830's; and it was the industrial rather than
the agricultural consequences of railroadization that created the
take-off in each case. Nevertheless, the timing of these industrial
surges related directly to the world grain market position and to
the existence of hitherto unexploited possibilities for increasing
agricultural production.
On a lesser scale and in a less decisive way, agriculture has
contributed to industrialization by inducing new manufactured in-
puts ; e.g. with respect to the German chemical fertilizer industry
and the American farm machinery industry, which achieved an
early precocity in a setting of abundant land and scarce labour.
(iii) Technology
The potential spreading effects which may flow from the achieve-
ment of high momentum in a given industrial sector evidently have
something to do with the technology required in that sector. For
example, cotton textile factories require a different kind of input
I .f.
Rostow- Leading Sectors and the Take-off
with wider potential ramifications in introducing industrial know-
how than, say, breweries; railways, than meat-packing plants.•
But the lesson of economic history appears to be that the response
of the society to the potentials of a new sector using modern tech-
nology is probably a more important variable than the nature of
the technology itself. In the fourth quarter of the nineteenth cen-
tury strong impulses towards industrialization flowed from the
introduction of the steam saw and cream separator in Sweden,
where the will and ability to exploit the potential spreading effects
was strong ; while the Argentine response to extensive railroadiza-
tion before 1914 was weak. As Lockwood emphasizes, the organiza-
tion after 1868 of marketing and quality control in the Japanese
silk industry - with low modern technological content- had signi-
ficant general effects in modernizing the economy ; 2 whereas in
China in the early twentieth century, the development of quite
modern cotton textile mills in a few cities had only a damped effect.
It is, of course, difficult sharply to separate those spreading effects
which result from the scale and momentum of a sector from those
attributable to the responsiveness of a society to the potential back-
ward and forward linkages. Nevertheless, wherever power-driven
machinery is involved, the potential exists to learn a wide range of
the fundamental tricks of an industrial society. The incentive to
learn will be greater if the modern industry is substantial, profitable,
and rapidly expanding. But the wide range of leading sectors which
have proved consistent with a take-off suggests that the technology
involved is not, in itself, a decisive variable.
SIMON KUZNETS
Harvard University
V. CONCLUDING COMMENTS
The gist of the discussion in this paper can be summarized in
a few brief propositions.
(a) Leadership of a sector depends upon the origin of its growth
in an autonomous impulse, not in response to other sectors in the
country ; and upon the magnitude of its direct and indirect contri-
butions to the country's economic growth. The autonomous im-
pulse and the various types of contribution to growth differ in
timing ; and the identification and chronology of leading sectors
requires specification and evidence lacking in Professor Rostow's
discussion.
(b) The doubling of capital investment proportions and the
implicit sharp acceleration in the rate of growth of national product,
claimed by Professor Rostow as characterizing his 'take-off' periods,
are not confirmed by the statistical evidence for those countries on
his list for which we have data.
(c) There is no clear distinction between the 'pre-conditions'
and the 'take-off' stages. On the contrary, given the pre-conditions
emphasized by Professor Rostow, viz., transformation of agriculture
and overhead capital investments, there is a prima facie case for
expecting the 'pre-conditions' and the 'take-off' stages to overlap.
(d) The analysis of the take-off and pre-conditions stages neg-
lects the effect of historical heritage, time of entry into the process
of modern economic growth, degree of backwardness, and other
40
Kuznets- Notes on the Take-off
relevant factors on the characteristics of the early phases of modern
economic growth in the different 'traditional' countries.
(e) The concept (and stage) of 'self-sustained' growth is a mis-
leading oversimplification. No growth is purely self-sustaining or
purely self-limiting. The characterization of one stage of growth as
self-sustained, and of others, by implication, as lacking that property,
requires substantive evidence and analysis not provided in Professor
Rostow's discussion.
A few additional comments may help to put these conclusions
into proper perspective.
First, the evidence used to test Professor Rostow's scheme is not
conclusive. Some non-Communist countries for which we have
no data may have experienced a period of growth conforming with
Professor Rostow's take-off stage. Also, his scheme may fit the
Communist take-offs, but my knowledge of them is inadequate
for checking. All that is claimed here is that aggregative data for
a number of countries do not support Professor Rostow's distinction
and characterization of the take-off stage. On the other hand, the
fact that the evidence is confined to aggregative data does not limit
their bearing. Economic growth is an aggregative process ; sectoral
changes are interrelated with aggregative changes, and can be
properly weighted only after they have been incorporated into the
aggregative framework ; and the absence of required aggregative
changes severely limits the likelihood of the implicit strategic sectoral
changes.
Second, although we concentrated on the take-off stage, and
the two contiguous stages - pre-conditions and self-sustained
growth - much of what was said applies by inference to other
stage.s in Professor Rostow's scheme. Moreover, the characteriza-
tion of the 'traditional' economy as a stage raises numerous ques-
tions. But an explicit discussion of the rest of the scheme would
take us too far afield.
Third, my disagreement with Professor Rostow is not on the
value and legitimacy of an attempt to suggest some pattern of order
in the modern economic growth experience of different countries.
On the contrary, I fully share what I take to be his view on the
need to go beyond qualitative and quantitative description to the
use of the evidence for a large number of countries and long periods,
in combination with analytical tools and imaginative hypotheses, to
suggest and explain not only some common patterns but also, I
would add, the major deviations from them. However, for reasons
clearly indicated above, I disagree with the sequence of stages he
suggests.
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
If we cannot accept Professor Rostow's sequence of stages, and
particularly his notion of a distinct and commonly found take-off
stage, what are we left with ?
Let us begin by agreeing that modern economic growth displays
certain observable and measurable characteristics, which in com-
bination are distinctive to it, i.e. were not evident in earlier economic
epochs ; and that these characteristics can, in principle, be estab-
lished with the help of quantitative and other data wherever such
growth occurs. What these characteristics are is a matter for dis-
cussion ; but I believe that agreement could easily be reached on
some of them, e.g. those relating to rates of growth of national pro-
duct, total and per capita, and to structural shifts that commonly
accompany them. Let us assume for purposes of illustration that
identification of such growth requires a minimum rise in per capita
income sustained over a period of at least two or three decades, a
minimum shift away from agriculture, and any other identifiable
indispensable components of modern economic growth that we may
specify.
With this specification of what modern economic growth is, it
becomes possible, given the data, to place its beginning in the various
countries in which modern economic growth occurred. The date
of inception need not be a year, or even a quinquennium; it may
be a band of some width, but still narrow enough to permit us to
say that the two or three decades following it are the early phases
of modern economic growth and the two or three decades prior to
it are the ones directly preceding the beginning of modern economic
growth in the country - without missing much in between. If,
then, we consider it important to study just the early decades of
modern economic growth, and/or those immediately preceding it,
in the hope of finding characteristics and relations that would permit
us to construct an adequate theoretical scheme, we may want to
call the first two or three decades following the initiation of modern
economic growth the 'early growth phase' and the two or three
decades preceding it the 'late pre-modern phase'.
Obviously, the two or three decades are just illustrative, and the
period may vary in length from country to country : the phase
segregated for concentrated study would have to be defined in
terms of some reasonably realistic preliminary notions concerning
the length of time during which the distinctive characteristics of
early growth persist or during which the immediate antecedents
must be studied. The firm point in this approach is the feasibility
of dating the beginning of modern economic growth by some 'hard'
data, relating to one or several characteristics that are constituent
42
Kuznets- Notes on the Take-off
elements in the very definition of modern economic growth. In
doing this, all that we specify is the early phase of the segment of
the long record of modern economic growth on which we wish to
concentrate. The termination of the period is then to be decided
on the basis of any substantive hypotheses concerning the distinctive
characteristics of the early phase ; although one would assume that
since the span of modern economic growth in most countries is not
much over a hundred years, there are narrow limits to the length
of the early growth phase that an economist of today can set.
The term 'early phase of modern growth' is far less appealing·
than take-off : it does not carry the suggestive connotation of the
latter. And the same is true of 'late pre-modern period' compared
with pre-conditions, and of 'middle growth period' compared with
'self-sustained growth'. But the appealing terms employing me-
chanical or biological metaphors carry the danger of misleading us
into believing that the suggested connotations are relevant to ob-
servable reality. It is my conviction that at the present stage of
our knowledge (and ignorance), it is the better part of valour to
link the constraining influence of phase distinction to the bare lines
of observable and measurable growth processes ; and to concentrate
discussion on the early decades of modern economic growth in those
countries for which we can identify its beginning, with excursions
into the pre-modern growth past and the post-early decades of
modern growth when they seem warranted. The designation 'early
phase of modern economic growth' would, I suspect, fit the papers
in this conference better than the specific reference to the take-off.
43
Chapter 3
DOUGLASS C. NORTH
University of Washington
I. INTRODUCTION
THE economic growth of the United States clearly accelerated
between the end of the second war with England and the Civil
War.' This acceleration is evident not only in 'extensive' expan-
sion - increasing output as a result of the vast increase in land and
resources, labour, capital, and entrepreneurial talent- but also in
the substantial increase in efficiency of productive factors which
characterized the period. 2
The extensive expansion and increased efficiency characterized
every sector of the economy.J An overall explanation of this acceler-
ated growth therefore must inevitably examine not just one sector
but the growth in the economy as a whole since it is clear that the
extensive expansion, growth of regional specialization and inter-
regional trade, and falling transport costs were all a critical part of
the development of the national economy. Equally critical were its
1 See Robert Gallman, 'Commodity Output in the United States, 1839-1899',
TABLE 1
LEADING BRANCHES OF MANUFACTURE IN THE UNITED STATES, 1860
52
North- Industrialization in the United States
lishments were in Massachusetts. 1 Their average capitalization and
number of employees were well above the mean for the rest of the
country. Between the 1830's and 1860 the industry passed from the
domestic stage to the factory system with the increasing size of the
market as the most important element in this transformation.z By
1860 the sewing-machine, which had already revolutionized the
clothing industry, was just beginning a similar transformation of the
boot and shoe industry.
The products of the iron industry present a varied picture during
the period prior to the Civil War. While pig-iron production was
concentrated in Pennsylvania (580,049 tons out of the U.S. total of
987,559 tons in 1860),3 the various products derived from it were
more scattered. Bar, sheet, and railroad iron were also concentrated
in Pennsylvania, while Massachusetts was the leading state in iron
wire and iron forgings. New York, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts
in that order produced the bulk of the iron castings.
An important part of iron output was turned immediately into
final consumer goods. Stoves were the major single commodity,
with a value in 1860 of $10,709,972. Railroads were the most im-
portant single demand from industry. The value of bar, sheet,
and railroad iron produced in 1860 was almost $32 million. A
little less than half that value, equal to 235,107 tons, was railroad
iron. Yet railroads were certainly not the dominant factor in the
iron industry. While the value added of rails was approximately
$6·5 million in 1860 and roughly equal to the value added of bar
iron, it was dwarfed by the value added of the polyglot classification
of iron castings which in 1860 was $21 million. Indeed, the value
added in stove making alone was equal to that of iron rails. Cer-
tainly, the iron industry mirrored the state of American manufac-
turing prior to the era of steel (which was just beginning to develop).
Iron was used in a broad range of consumer and producer goods,
and casting was the major method by which the metal could be
transformed to meet the needs of the time. After 1845 rolling mills
had developed in eastern Pennsylvania which were especially geared
to making heavy rails, and they presaged the growing importance
of the railroad in inducing large-scale production in the iron and
steel industry. 4 But such a development was just beginning before
the Civil War.
1 Eighth Census, Manufactures, p. lxvii.
~ See Blanche Hazard, The Organization of the Boot and Shoe Industry in
Massachusetts before 1875 (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1921), Chap-
ters IV and V.
J Statistics from this section are from Eighth Census, Manufactures, pp. clxxviii-
cxcvi.
4 Clark, History of Manufactures, p. 513.
53
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
three regions, and the expansion of interregional trade are described in some
detail in my forthcoming study of U.S. Economic Growth.
2 See Clark, History of Manufactures, pp. 356-60; Cole, The American Wool
VI. CONCLUSIONS
In summary, then, the development of manufacturing in the
North-east got under way, after the sharp readjustment following
the war of 1812, around a few industries which the import trade
had already shown to possess growing markets. Its location in the
North-east was dictated by prior developments which had occurred
there as well as the natural resource endowment of abundant water
power. The linkages associated with the textile industry were an
important influence in the developments of the 1820's and early
1830's. It was the growth in the size of the market as a consequence
of regional specialization, however, which led to the acceleration in
manufacturing development and the specialization of function of
the firm in the 1830's. The cotton trade of the South and the decline
in transport costs were the proximate influences in this growing
regional specialization and the development of inter-regional trade.
If the growing size of the market made possible the development
of manufacturing, it was the quality of entrepreneurial talent and
the labour force that could effectively take advantage of these oppor-
tunities. The adaptation of foreign inventions as soon as profitable,
the variety of native innovations, particularly those which cut labour
costs, and the rapid spread of new techniques were indicative of
the 'quality' of labour and entrepreneurial talent. While the under-
lying aspirations and motivations of people in American society
were obviously important, the investment in human capital was a
critical factor both in innovations and in the relative ease with which
they could spread. The primary source of this quality of the labour
force and entrepreneurial talent was the widespread free education
system in the North-east, although the skills of English and German
immigrants were an important supplement.
The surge of expansion that began in 1843 was clearly an era
in which the North-east had ceased being a marginal manufacturing
area and could successfully expand into a vast array of industrial
goods. By 1860 the 'problems' of industrialization were behind in
the development of the United States.
6a
Chapter 4
PHYLLIS DEANE
Cambridge University
and
H. J. HABAKKUK
Oxford University
I. INTRODUCTION
THE process of industrialization which gathered momentum in
Britain during the second half of the eighteenth century and initiated
the sustained upward movement of real incomes that the Western
world now takes for granted, involved revolutionary changes in the
structure and organization of the economy. The origins of some
of these changes can be traced to earlier centuries. Some of them
are still working themselves out. It is generally agreed, however,
that the crucial transformation occurred fairly rapidly - certainly
within the century between 1750 and 1850, probably in a consider-
ably shorter time. More recently Professor Rostow has given added
interest to the problem of identifying and of timing the British
industrial revolution by viewing it as the prototype of the take-off
- 'that decisive interval of the history of a society when growth
becomes its normal condition' . 1
It is the object of this paper to examine the British experience
in the light of this view. In particular we shall consider three related
questions suggested by Professor Rostow's analysis of the British
case:
1. Was the period 1783-1802, to which the take-off is allocated,
the period within which self-sustained growth may be said
to have begun ?
2. Did this period involve such radical changes in production
functions, such a decisive transformation of the economy that
economic growth was thenceforward more or less automatic ?
3. Did the rate of productive investment rise from perhaps 5 per
cent of national income to near 10 per cent in the course of
these two decades ?
1 W. W. Rostow, The Stages of Economic Growth, p. 36.
6J
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
It will be evident that it is not possible to provide unambiguous
answers to questions such as these. This is so for two reasons. In
the first place, the questions themselves are ambiguous. How can
we tell at what point of time the process of growth became 'self-
sustaining' or 'self-reinforcing' ? It is not enough to call a move-
ment irreversible because it was not reversed. How 'radical' must
a transformation be to rank as 'decisive' ? How do we distinguish
productive investment from unproductive investment in any measur-
able sense?
In the second place the data are inadequate. The concept of
take-off is essentially a quantitative concept. It is isolated in terms
of 'scale' and 'momentum' and 'critical levels' in economic activity.
It is recognizable in statistical series, structural measures, and rates
of growth. It stands or falls by the statistics, and of course eighteenth-
century statistics are notoriously incomplete. We may add them
up, break them down, or extrapolate them which way we will, but
the fact remains that we are operating with a very few basic series. 1
Even if we knew exactly what these signified we should still only
have part of the story. The rest has to be filled in by imaginative
guesswork.
the changing rates of population growth in different regions of England and Wales
during the eighteenth century.
• J. D. Chambers, 'Population Change in a Provincial Town, Nottingham
1700-1800', in Studies in the Industrial Revolution, edited by L. S. Pressnell, p.
119. See alsop. 112 where he suggests that the upward trend in population was
already under way before the innovations associated with the industrial revolution
began to be developed in Nottingham 'and in its early stages has more claim to
be regarded as a cause than as an effect of industrial expansion'.
6s
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
Arthur Young began to compile his elaborate national income esti-
mates on the basis of his agricultural tours, economic progress was
clearly evident 1 and exaggerated income estimates were the conse-
quence.
Arthur Young's estimates, after adjusting for apparent omissions,
suggests a total national income of about £130 million circa 1770 in
relation to a population of about 7 million. It is not possible to ad-
just for over-optimism, but it appears to affect most of his calcula-
tions - probably with particular force those relating to agriculture,
where he was strongly influenced by the evidence of the progressive
farmers whom he was most interested to visit. The only other
estimate we have for the period is the result of Joseph Massie's
calculations of average incomes for the various social groups in the
population, made in support of a polemic on the sugar trade and
not intended to be aggregated into a national income total. This
suggests a national income of between £80 and £90 million circa
1759 in relation to a population of about 6! million and possibly to
a slightly lower level of prices than that confronting Young. The
disparity between these two estimates is a fair measure of the uncer-
tainty left by contemporary calculations of the level of incomes at
this period.
When we try to relate this evidence - uncertain as it is - to
the more convincing contemporary calculations made in relation to
the first income tax introduced by Pitt at the turn of the century the
comparison is complicated by extensive price changes. Bread cost
under 6d. for the 4-lb. loaf in 1770 and over 1s. 3d. in 1800. The
price paid by Westminster School for coal was half as high again in
1800 as it had been in 1770. The Gilboy-Schumpeter index suggests
that consumers' goods more than doubled in price between 1770
and 1800 and producers' goods rose by more than half. If changes
of this order are a fair reflection of the fall in the value of money
then it was more than enough to wipe out any increase in average
money incomes during the last three decades of the eighteenth
century, however conservatively we interpret the national income
estimates. But in the abnormal conditions of a major war it is diffi-
cult to accept as measures of changes in the value of money price
1 Cf. Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations, Cannon Edn., Vol. I, p. 200: 'In Great
Britain the real recompense of labour, it has already been shown, the real quantities
of the necessaries and conveniences of life which are given to the labourer has
increased considerably during the course of the present century'. Tooke, A His-
tory of Prices, London, 1838, lays great stress on the unusually abundant harvests
which prevailed in the half century following 1715, p. 60: 'This long period of
great abundance and consequent cheapness of the prices of provisions was one
which appears to have been attended with a great improvement in the condition
and habits of the great bulk of the population'.
66
Habakkuk and Deane - The Take-off in Britain
indices which are heavily weighted by cereals or by government
purchases of producers' goods. The evidence of the contemporary
estimates remains inconclusive.
When we try to construct our own series of real output estimates
for the eighteenth century we are thrown back on the handful of
overseas trade and excise series which is virtually all that we have
in the way of annual data for this period, plus a few uncertain bench-
mark estimates for particular products and periods. An attempt to
construct output indices with this inadequate material is described
elsewhere. 1 The results of the calculation are shown below. It is
heavily influenced - perhaps rightly so - by the series for over-
seas trade, which has a weight of 21 per cent in the total. It is this
more than anything else which accounts for the marked increase in
TABLE 1
EsTIMATED GROWTH RATES IN ENGLAND AND WALES
Compound rates of growth per annum at 1700 weights •
Indicator of
Indicator of Real
Real National
National Output
Output per Head
% %
1700-40 0·3 0·3
1740-70 0·9 0·3
1770-1800 1·5 0·6
• At 1800 weights the end of century rates of growth are somewhat lower.
Expts. Impts. Expts. Impts. Expts. Impts. Expts. Impts. Expts. Impts.
1760/64 43·7 21·9 7·0 6·0 11-1 5·3 5·4 10·6 0·8 2·8
1765/69 38·0 24·4 8·1 9·1 10·9 6·2 6·0 13·9 t 0·3
1770/74 38·9 24·7 5·2 9·9 15·7 7·1 6·7 16·1 t 0·4
1775/79 36·8 25·4 6·3 7·0 5·7 2·8 6·9 16·6 t 0·2
1780/84 27·5 26·1 6·8 8·7 10·2 1·9 7·2 13·3 0·5 0·3
1785/89 39·2 31·0 11·9 16·6 14·5 5·8 7·8 19·6 0·1 0·8
1790/94 47·4 37·9 17·0 17·9 24·0 6·1 13·9 20·9 0·3 1·3
1795/99 55·6 38·7 15·5 24·4 33·8 9·3 20·0 24·0 4·2 4·9
1800/4 89·6 45·6 18·6 23·4 37·9 12·5 19·1 38·2 1-9 6·4
1805/90 76·4 40·0 13·5 21·1 38·6 12·2 25·0 40·0 14·7 11·2
1810/14. 113·5 40·0 10·7 27·0 28·3 11·2 25·5 40·9 21·8 24·4
1815/19 135·7 41·9 14·9 40·2 49·3 16·8 28·6 40·3 21·0 11·4
• Partly estimated: 1813 figures not available.
t Negligible (under £100,000).
82
Chapter 5
WOLFRAM FISCHER
(University of Munster)
94
Chapter 6
WALTHER G. HOFFMANN
University of Munster
I. INTRODUCTORY REMARKS
IN dividing the process of economic growth into different stages
the question arises whether quantitative criteria such as investment
ratios and the rate of growth of real income would suffice or whether
qualitative criteria should be applied in addition. In our opinion
only the application of both sets of criteria can be adequate. The
economic upheavals in Germany during the first half of the nineteenth
century can be accounted for by qualitative changes which sometimes
proceeded discontinuously, as, for instance, those brought about by
the 'freedom of trade' (Gewerbefreiheit) and the establishment of
the Customs Union (Zollverein). Sometimes these changes occurred
slowly and continuously as was the case with the transition from
traditional to rational methods in the economy. These qualitative
changes had quantitative effects in the long run. There was no
sudden acceleration in the rates of growth in real income and in
number of production series. Hence we are led to apply qualitative
as well as quantitative criteria when demarcating the take-off period
in Germany and offering an analysis of it.
Apart from the general issue mentioned above we are faced
with a special problem in Germany : how far can the area which
was later to be known as the 'Deutsches Reich' be regarded as a
single economic unit during the initial period under consideration?
During the take-off period, Germany, unlike most other countries,
had not yet achieved her political unity. Before the Customs Union
was set up in 1834, the establishment of an internally unified market
was hindered by the customs barriers between the individual German
states. The unifying process was further hindered by the lack of
transport and communication facilities, a feature shared by other
countries as well. The economic integration of Germany led to a
1 I am indebted to Dr. Franz Knoll for his help in preparing this paper, which is
part of a broader study on the growth of the German economy.
95
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
better exploitation of the available resources, and hence may be
thought to have influenced the rate of growth of the social product
in the whole area.
Owing to her political disunity it is more difficult to characterize
the initial phase as a take-off period for the whole of Germany
than it would be for other countries. We shall try to establish the
fact that sustained growth in Germany - to use Professor Rostow's
terminology- set in after 1855/60 and that the preceding period
can be divided into a pre-conditions period from the end of the
eighteenth century till 1830/35 and into a take-off period between
1830/35 and 1855/60; we must bear in mind, however, that the
individual regions reached these phases at different times.
Bavaria
Saxony
Prussia
40
35 German
30 -'•,_, __ , ... ,.- /'-..,_,,,... ., ........ , .......
- ...,"-,,..... _..... " ,, .. _, ..........,_~------- Reich
25
20 - ,,.. ... ............, ............... ,_ .... ...
15~--~~~~~--~~~~~~~~~~--~~~~~
1816'20 ·2s '30 ·3s '40 '45 ·so ·ss '60 '65 ·7o '75 '80 '85 '90 '95 190o·os 'IO ·1s
- - Birth rates ------ Death rates
(Per cent)
-
About 1800 1861 1883 1900 1913
Germany Prussia Prussia Germany Prussia Germany Germany
Corn 61 ·1 73·4 64·4 55·2 60·3 57·6 60·7
Root crop 2·3 5·2 13·2 14·8 16·9 17·3 19·6
Fodder crop 3·9 - 6·1 11·3 8·8 11·5 11·5
Pasturage - - - 5·8 - 4·1 2·8
Fallow land 25·0 21-4 16·3 7·2 14·0 4-8 2·6
Misc. 7·7 - - 5·7 - 4·7 2·8
TABLE 2
UTILIZATION OF GERMAN AND PRUSSIAN SOIL, 1800-1913 I
Total
Agricultural Arable Meadows Pasturage Forests Waste
Acreage Land Land
G p G p G p G p G p G p
about
1800 55·5 53-1 34·3 34·1 11·0 19·0• 10·2 - 25·0 23-9 19·6 23·0
1849 - 60·8 - 45·2 - 15·6• - - - 20·3 - 19·0
1864 - 69·3 - 51-4 - 17·9• - - - 24·6 - 7·1
1878 68·0 69·1 48·5 52·5 11·0 9·2 8·5 7·4 25·7 24·6 6·3 6·3
1883 66·0 67·1 48·7 52·9 11·0 9·1 6·3 5·1 25·7 24·6 8·3 8·3
1893 65·1 67·2 48·8 53·1 11·0 9-Q 5·3 5·1 25·8 24·7 9·1 8·1
1900 64·8 67·1 48·8 53·3 11·0 9·0 5·0 4·8 25·9 24·9 9·3 8·0
1913 - 66·5 - 53·2 - 8·9 - 4·4 - 25·3 - 8·2
• Inclusive pasturage. G =Germany; P =Prussia.
-
II
~ 16
...." " 14
0 12
~
~
I/I
!.
)I
Graph 3 II /1~ I II
I I U
I\ /\It I
11 \ Kt~/'V/ Producer Goods Industries
v"'l
Changes
+ 100% f Total Industrial Production
+70 } / Consumer Goods Industries
I~/V
+50
+30 I ,..._-/
+10
_,/"/
0 -10
-20
/ ,..
I ,.../·-··
--
-30 I ,-·-·
--
-·-·'
--
-40 /
/
--
-so
------ -----------
-::--==------ ____ .....
Graph 4
Changes
+ 100%
+70
+SO
0
-10
-20
-30
-40
-so
'40 '45 ·so ·ss '60 '65 ·7o '75 '80 '85 '90 '95 19oo ·os ·1o ·u
Graph 5
,,,.
+70
+sg
+4 ,r--v~
r....i
+20
+to .......,
,.,
0
-tO
-20 '\ i
-30
-40 Confectionery
-50
,.
(""'.
_......., \l
;·~
Graph 6 ,"...,,.:
,,
,
. ...,•r-.1
,:.,_.'
. ,.:
;y''v'
, ... Woollen and
,~IV Worsted Yarn
Changes
+100%
,, :
:i /
Jr.,,' "'1 ,-v'
,l·.r-·
_..,
I I I ....,.
!"'•~!Cotton Yarn
' ,
+70
+50 ,J /V "'
~I" J Woollen and
+30
+10
jV ,1"' Worsted Goods
0
-10 : /v'
,: ,.J
-20 • ' I ~ ,
-30 r; \/ .,
" •\ , ,tt.."",:r "
-40 I I
-so '"
AI
I I
#I
.,.,.
,. :
I 1 I
,rA..v_,.'
I •,' " ..._,
': ~ v
,:
/
\, ~",r"#
/'
~/"
l
·1 r'
: \ ,fe .".:
,.. ... \!. ~
,~ lJ
r-.\,~I
,
,...__.
- Linen Yarn
, ..,/\:
,_,.,., .. ,.,.,.,.,.,.,,....,1 ~- \J \.
,_,
I \ ,._.,
\ .../' \ ~',,"
\: \ ~~i'·1 ,..
,, " "''·-'
'
tendencies in this respect. The advantage of weaving factories
consisted in their better insight into and their better exploitation of
the market situation. Even as late as 1860, the cottage hand looms
110
Hoffmann- The Take-off in Germany
could compete with the factory-size weaving establishments. But
in the long run the inerease in wages ensured the advance of me-
chanical weaving. The progress of mechanical weaving is clearly
recognized in the statistics for Prussia (Table 5).
TABLE 5
HAND AND MECHANICAL LOOMS IN PRUSSIA I
Total Number
Total Number of Hand Looms Number of
Year of Looms exclusive of Mechanical
(OOO's) Cottage Hand Looms
Looms (OOO's)
1846 453 162 4,603
1849 467 179 5,018
1852 481 189 5,268
1855 489 190 6,178
1858 496 196 7,882
1861 467 191 15,258
1875 - 201 45,262
112
Hoffmann - The Take-off in Germany
The Prussian government had already set up iron works in Upper
Silesia in the last two decades of the eighteenth century. In 1796
the first blast furnace running on coke was installed in the govern-
ment's iron factory in Gleiwitz. Similarly in the government factory
'Konigshiitte' the Heinitz blast furnace and the Reden blast furnace,
both running on coke, were established in 1802.
The public sector had definitely provided the largest share of
the funds necessary for setting up the social overhead capital. Road
construction with very few exceptions is an item of public expendi-
ture, undertaken by the state, province, district, or municipality. In
the early years railway construction on the other hand was mainly
undertaken by private companies. In 1840, 92 per cent of the total
railway lines of Germany was in the hands of private railway com-
panies; in 1850 the share was reduced to 65 per cent, in 1860
55 per cent, and in 1870 57 per cent.I
The government's share in the long-term financing of railway
construction can be assumed to be greater than its share in the
railway lines suggests, for it may be taken for granted that munici-
palities, districts, and provinces had taken over a substantial part
of shares of the private railway companies. Most of the shares of
private companies were owned by private businessmen as the rail-
way companies distributed substantial dividends. The first German
railway company, the Niirnberg-Fiirther Ludwigsbahn, paid annual
dividends from 12 to 20 per cent during the period 1836--60. At the
same time the average dividend of the private German railway com-
panies were about 6 per cent.z In many cases the Prussian govern-
ment favoured private investment in railways by guaranteeing
dividends of about 4 per cent.
l
10
8
Capital Coefficient s.s
••::~~~:!...
.......--....,-· ..
_....--·-·· •••. _/(S years 5.0
6 .. \ .... _.,.,..............,'
4 so 4.5
40 4,0
.
"!!
20 ~
10
i
TABLE 6
COMPOSITION OF INVESTMENT
(1913 prices: per cent)
Industry
Buildings 5·6 5·8 1H·
Machinery} 10·5 11·3 30·2
Inventories
Total 16·1 17·1 41·7
• Current Prices.
Hoffmann - The Take-off in Germany
and to what extent by the income distribution becoming more
unequal.
A$ to the structure of consumption 92 per cent of the total
consumption was allocated to private consumption and about 8 per
cent to public consumption of individual states, provinces and
municipalities (Table 8). One-third of public consumption was
absorbed by military expenses. In 1906/10 the share was still
larger. Regarding private consumption in 1851/60 about 90 per
cent went in food, clothing, and housing expenses, whereas later
with growing welfare more 'non-essentials' came to the forefront.
One may assume that at the beginning of the nineteenth century
this ratio was over 90 per cent. In the take-off period, the share
of clothing and housing expenditure was relatively small. The food-
consumption standards were marked by high expenditure on rye
products, as well as beans, lentils, peas, and potatoes, whereas the
consumption of confectionery, pork, and eggs which was to dominate
later, was relatively undeveloped at that time.
On reviewing this analysis of the economy one can see that it is
difficult to demarcate the process of industrialization into independent
periods on the basis of quantitative criteria. Nevertheless it can
hardly be doubted that by the middle of the nineteenth century
economic conditions were well set in Germany to allow for a transi-
tion into sustained growth.
TABLE 9
PRODUCTION AND CoNSUMPTION STANDARDS PER HEAD OF
POPULATION IN GERMANY COMPARED WITH THE UNITED KINGDOM 1
(U.K.=100)
Production of
Consumption Length of
of Coal Cotton Woollen Railway Lines
Pig Iron Yam Yarn
1820 6 - - - -
1830 7 10 - 15 -
1840 7 8 5 26 24
1850 7 6 7 29 35
1860 10 9 11 34 45
1870 17 16 13 39 53
1880 22 23 13 48 80
II8
Chapter 7
J. MARCZEWSKI
lnstitut de Science Economique Appliquee, Paris
I. THE PROBLEM
Is Rostow's take-off hypothesis valid for France ?
If so, is it right to assume, as Rostow explicitly does, that the
phase of economic growth designated by this term occurred between
1830 and 1860?
If not, how should we amend Rostow's hypothesis to make it
applicable to France ?
These are the questions with which this paper is concerned. The
figures on which the argument rests are those obtained by the Study
Group on Long-term Series whose work I direct at the Institute of
Applied Economics in Paris and whose scientific collaborators are
J. C. Toutain and T. Markovitch. This group carries on the re-
search work started in 1950 by Fran~ois Perroux. It should be
made clear, however, that our investigations of the growth of the
French economy since 1700 are far from being completed, and that
most of the quantitative data used in this paper are provisional and
remain subject to significant modification. For this reason its results
should not be regarded as definitive. From the point of view of the
state of our work, it would be better if this Round Table took place
two or three years later, when we hope to have a complete and
detailed series on output, income, consumption and capital forma-
tion over the last two centuries. No national accounting figure
can really be regarded as acceptable unless it fits several sets of
magnitudes co-ordinated and evaluated independently one from the
other.
1 Translated from the French by Elizabeth Henderson.
119
Tire Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
TABLE 1
GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT
(Million francs at current prices)
......
1845-54 5,293 5,107 10,400 655 1,200 338 1,920 4,113 14,513
1855-64
1865-74
1875-84
8,323
8,482
7,975
6,043
7,101
14,366 860
15,583 1,190 ...... ......619 ...
... ......
7,889 15,864 1,474 1,900 3,690 7,683 23,547
1885-94 7,291 8,869 16,160 2,077 1,800 740 3,380 7,997 24,157
1895-04 7,642 10,383 18,025 2,816 2,400 1,025 3,800 10,041 28,066
.........
1905-13 10,264 14,520 24,784 3,156 2,880 1,209 4,152 11,397 36,181
......... ......... ......... .........
192Q-24 35,800 85,505 121,305 3,540
1925-34 67,300 132,670 199,970 7,478
1935-38 61,300 108,860 169,160 8,814
• Interpolated figures.
TABLE 3
NET CAPITAL FORMATION
(Annual averages in million francs at current prices)
at the beginning of the period considered, that is, at the end of the
eighteenth century. But as we proceed through the nineteenth
century, this percentage becomes steadily smaller and is down to
70 at the beginning of the twentieth century. As regards value
Ial
The EcotWmics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
added, we calculated the figures for those branches of industry and
crafts for which we possessed quantitative data, and then added a
global figure, in the proportions indicated by various contemporary
writers, for the value added by branches for which we have not as
yet been able to make direct estimates. Despite the provisional use
of this expedient, the order of magnitude of the figures relating to
physical product will probably need no major revision. The same
cannot be said of services. Only the series for housing rests on
reasonably certain data. For commerce, the professions, and govern-
ment we simply took Perroux's earlier estimates, as published in
Income and Wealth, Series V. These are no more than a first approxi-
mation ; we had no time to improve them, and, as will be seen,
they cover only a few decades. In particular, the figures for 'govern-
ment' actually represent not the product proper of the public sector,
but the sum of expenditures by central government authorities.
There is thus some double-counting due to the inclusion of the
expenditure on goods already comprised in the physical product.
On the other hand, no account at all is taken of the product of local
authorities and of transport.
The series for capital formation, in Tables 1 and 2, are even less
satisfactory than those for aggregate domestic product. They were
worked out rather hastily, for the purposes of this Round Table,
from various estimates of private wealth taken from nineteenth-
century authors. Thus capital estimates and income estimates come
from entirely different sources and are not strictly comparable. Our
product series are still incomplete and therefore understate the
truth, while capital formation, especially from the second half of
the nineteenth century onwards, has probably been overestimated.
With these reservations, we may state that gross capital forma-
tion, which represented about 6 per cent of gross domestic product
between 1788 and 1839, rose to about 11 per cent between 1839
and 1852, and, at the end of the nineteenth century, reached 19 to
20 per cent. The corresponding percentages for net capital forma-
tion are 3, 8, and 12. These figures would seem to fit in with
Rostow's condition of a doubling of the rate of net capital formation
to net product during the take-off. However, we must bear in
mind that neither product nor capital developed in a linear fashion.
This is particularly true of the period 1788-1839. From rather high
initial levels before the Revolution, both product and capital de-
clined during the years of the Revolution, probably reaching their
lowest level around 1796. From 1797 onwards, and especially after
the establishment of the Consulate in 1799, industrial production
recovered rapidly. Thus the increase in the rate of capital forma-
122
Marczewski- The Take-off Hypothesis and French Experience
tion to product may well have begun - and in my opinion probably
did begin- not around 1840, but at the beginning of the nineteenth
century. On the other hand, it is equally likely that the method
of valuing industrial capital on the basis of stock exchange quotations
tends to exaggerate capital growth in relation to the growth of pro-
duct. Joint stock companies did not begin to appear in really large
numbers in France until a few years after the promulgation of the
1867law.
2. Leading Sectors
Table 4 lists those industries which, during any one of the
periods under consideration, registered a rate of growth well in
excess of the rate of growth of industry and crafts as a whole.
Column 2 shows the geometrical average of the annual rate of growth
of the total net domestic product of industry and crafts, including
those branches for which we have not yet made direct calculations.
The figures in brackets in the same column refer to the rate of
growth of those industries for which we did make direct quantitative
investigations. This latter figure is more reliable than the former,
but does not encompass the whole of the industry and crafts sector.
Column 3 lists the industrial products which, during the period
considered, registered markedly higher rates of growth than did the
total product of industry and crafts. The item 'residual industries'
represents those branches of activity for which we made no direct
calculations. Column 4 indicates the percentage share of the value
added by each of the selected industries in the gross average \talue
added by all industries during the period under consideration.
Finally, column 5 shows the geometrical average of the selected
industries' annual rates of growth.
It seems reasonable to assume that, to impart any significant
impulse to the economy, an industry must have both a markedly
higher rate of growth than total product, and a more than negligible
specific weight in the total value added. These twin conditions are
fulfilled by the industries the products of which appear in italics in
column 3. It will be seen that in general the industries which grow
fastest have a very low specific weight. The impulse they impart
to economic activity as a whole can therefore hardly be very strong.
This is an argument against Rostow's thesis of the dominant role
of leading sectors. It suggests that the acceleration of growth ob-
served during certain periods owes more to general causes affecting
all industrial production than to causes affecting particular branches.
Let us now examine the separate periods.
123
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained GrO'lOth
TABLE 4
INDUSTRIES GROWING MUCH FASTER THAN THE WEIGHTED AVERAGE
OF THE TOTAL INDUSTRIAL PRODUCT*
TABLE 4 (continued)
Total Selected Industries
Industrial
Product Annual
Period (Geom. %Share Rate of
Average Product of Value Growth
Annual Rate added t (Geom.
of Growth) Average)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5)
1835/44 2·45 Coal 0·65 4·3
to (2·09) Edible oils 0·44 4·2
1845/54 Iron ore 0·15 3-8
(10 years) Salt 0·17 3·4
Pig iron 0·92 3·2
Tobacco 0·08 3·2
Iron and steel semi-manu- 2-20 3·0
factures
1845/54 2·76 Jute 0·22 23·9
to (2·51) Non-ferrous metals 0·20 20·3
1855/64 Non-ferrous metal ores 0·02 15·6
(10 years) Rubber 0·04 12·5
Antimony products 0·01 12·0
Nickel products 0·01 11-6
Crude steel 0·01 9·6
Raw sugar 0·48 7·7
Iron ore 0·38 7·4
Chocolate 0·14 7·0
Zinc products 0·08 6·9
Refined sugar 0·65 6·8
Iron and steel semi-manu- 1·79 6·5
factures
Cast-iron products 0·54 6·3
Pig iron 0·88 6·3
Coal 0·45 6·1
Copper products 0·25 6·1
Iron and steel products 5-40 5·9
Stearine candles 0·13 4-9
Lead products 0·18 4·7
Residual industries 17-47 4·0
Beer 0·34 4·0
Edible oils 0·48 4·0
Tin products 0·06 4·0
Leather 5·12 3-7
Dressed skins and hides 2·10 3·7
Tobacco 0·08 3-4
1855/64 2·72 Nickel products 0·01 14-9
to (2·44) Crude steel 0·03 10·0
1865/74 Chemicals 2·00 9-6
(10 years) Raw sugar 0·64 9·2
Antimony 0·01 8·4
Jute yarns and fabrics 0·37 6·8
Cast iron 0·32 5·3
Chocolate 0·21 H
Non-ferrous metals 0·15 5·0
Coal 1-63 4·8
Bitumen 0·01 4·2
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
TABLE 4 (continued)
~---------
TABLE 4 (continued)
Total Selected Industries
Industrial
Product Annual
Period (Geom. %Share Rate of
Average Product of Value Growth
Annual Rate added t (Geom.
of Growth) Average)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5)
1885/94 2·47 Iron and steel products 11·90 3·3
to (2·05) Pig iron 0·60 3-3
1895/04 Antimony products 0·01 3·2
(10 years) Silk yarns and fabrics 1·29 3·2
Iron and steel semi-manu- 1·39 3·0
factures
Cotton yarns and fabrics 3-95 3·0
1895/04 2-85 Artifical fibre yarns and 0·99 23-6
to (2·50) fabrics
1905/13 Artifical fibre manufac- 0·99 16·7
(9l years) tures
Cast steel products 0·04 12·8
Iron ore 0·22 10·8
Antimony products 0·01 9·9
Crude steel 0·32 7·2
Non-ferrous metals 0·14 5·3
Copper products 0·62 5·2
Pig iron 0·70 4·7
Iron and steel semi-manu- 1·34 4·4
factures
Residual industries 28·10 4·4
Zinc products 0·31 4·1
Cast-iron products 0·20 4·0
Beer 0·47 3·6
Iron and steel products tHO 3·5
Rubber 0·43 3·5
TABLE 6
POPULATION OF TOWNS WITH MORE THAN 50,000 INHABITANTS
Geometrical Average
Year Population of Annual Rate
(thousand inhab.) of Increase (per cent)
1801 1825·4 -
1851 3285·6 1-18
1866 4965·4 2·79
1881 5840·1 1·09
1901 7260·6 1-10
1906 7506·6 0·67
1911 8296·2 2·02
1921 8527·5 0·27
1926 8840·1 0·72
1931 9278·9 0·97
1936 9482·3 0·43
Gs
Gw
Increasing Decreasing
Increasing with in- Preponderant develop- Development limited to
I creasing GwjGs ment of old industries a few old industries
Intensive growth Partial intensive growth
(Height of a growth (Decline of a growth
cycle- phase 3) cycle- phase 4)
Increasing with Preponderant develop-
I decreasing GwfGs men t of new industries
with growth ofold ones
Intensive and extensive
growth
(Upswing of a growth
cycle - phat~e 2)
Stationary or de- Slowing- down of
creasing with Gwj growth in the absence
Gs increasing or of structural renewal
stationary
Structural ageing
(End of a growth
cycle- phase 5)
Stationary or de- Preponderant develop- Slowing- down of
creasing with de- ment of new industries growth through the de-
creasing GwjGs with slowing-down in cline of old industries
the growth of old ones despite the creation
of new ones
Extensive growth Delayed extensive growth
(Beginning of a growth (Delayed beginning of
cycle- phase 1) a growth cycle -
phase la)
TABLE 8
COMPARISON OF SINGLE AND WEIGHTED RATES OF GROWTH
FOR FORTY-TWO FRENCH INDUSTRIES
Single Weighted
Period Rate Rate Gw/Gs Type of Growth
TABLE 9
GRoss AGRICULTURAL PRoDucT AT CoNSTANT (1905j13)
MARKET PRICES
(Million 1905/13 francs)
Geometrical Average
Period Gross Product of Annual Rate
of Growth
1701-1710 2,685 -
1751-1760 3,157 0·32
1771-1780 4,116 1·33
1781-1790 4,155 0·09
1803-1812 4,762 0·62
1815-1824 5,090 0·56
1825-1834 5,728 1-19
1835~1844 6,601 1·43
1845-1854 7,290 1·00
1855-1864 8,217 1·20
1865-1874 8,713 0·59
1875-1884 8,356 -0·42
1885-1894 8,326 -0·04
1895-1904 9,256 1·06
1905-1914 10,265 1·04
1920-1924 10,417 0·15
1925-1934 11,817 1·82
1935-1938 11,753 -0·08
below 1·5 per cent annually. In other periods the rate of growth
generally remained below 1 per cent. From 1855/64 onwards,
agricultural expansion slowed down, largely under the influence of
overseas competition. The year 1873 marked the onset of the great
agricultural depression which lasted until about 1896. This ex-
plains the negative rates of growth during the ten-year periods
1865/74 to 1875/84 and 1875/84 to 1885/94. The recovery after
1896 certainly owed much to the introduction, by Meline, of the
protectionist tariff in 1892. However, while his protectionist policy
1 34
Marczewski- The Take-off Hypothesis and French Experience
made room for a rather modest expansion in agriculture, it also
contributed to the hardening of the country's productive structure
and in the long run slowed down the growth of the French economy
as a whole.
Agricultural product and the product of industry and crafts
together make up the physical product, the growth of which is
shown in Table 10. It will be seen that the highest rates of growth
were achieved during the first seventy years of the nineteenth cen-
tury and during the years 1896 to 1913. The slackening of growth
TABLE 10
GROWTH OF PHYSICAL PRODUCT AT CONSTANT (1905/13)
MARKET PRICES
between 1875 and 1896 seems to have been largely due to the agri-
cultural depression, for the rates of growth of industrial product
show no diminution until after 1885. In periods of rapid growth
the ten-year maximum rates of growth are registered between 1825/34
and 1835/44, between 1845/54 and 1855/64, and between 1895/1904
and 1905/13. It should be noted that these maxima coincide with
those of agricultural product. On the other hand the spurts observed
took place during periods which, by common consent, have always
been regarded as periods of especially rapid growth : the first years
of the July Monarchy and of the Second Empire, and the 'Belle
Epoque' of the 1900's.
IJS
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
In Table 11, the inclusion of services gives us the rates of growth
of total gross domestic product. These rates are generally below
those of physical product. There is some shift in the time pattern :
thus the period 1892 to 1902/3 appears to have been one of more
rapid growth than the period 1902/3 to 1912. But in view of the
TABLE 11
GROWTH OF GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT AT CONSTANT (1905/13)
MARKET PRICES
(Million 1905/13 francs)
Agriculture
Product 4,155 6,601 7,522 8,356 8,558 9,559 10,177
Geometrical aver- - 0·92 1-01 0·38 0·20 1-11 1·01
age of annual
rate of growth %
Industry and Crafts
Product 604 2,446 3,359 7,004 9,313 12,141 15,370
Geometrical aver- - 2-78 2·36 2-66 2·49 2·69 2·38
age of annual
rate of growth %
Services
Construction 1,149 - 1,534 1,784 2,577 2,994 3,214
Commerce 1,142 - 1,652 1,992 2,055 2,629 3,487
Professions, 1,203 - 2,720 4,027 3,920 4,974 5,205
Government
Total 3,494 - 5,906 7,803 8,552 10,597 11,906
Gross domestic 8,253 - 16,787 21,363 26,427 32,297 37,793
product
Geometrical aver- - - 1-11 1-15 1·11 2·00 1·67
age of annual
rate of growth %
Gross domestic 306 - 469 617 689 829 956
hroduct per in-
abitant (francs)
Geometrical aver- - - 0·67 0·98 0·92 1·87 1-41
age of annual
rate of growth %
SHIGETO TSURU
Hitotsubashi University
Average Average
Price Export
at Home Price
y ¥
1890 83·00 21·89
1891 73·00 71·31
1892 76·00 7·33
1893 82·00 5·01
149
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
handling of government bonds. In 1879, for instance, the turnover
of corporate shares amounted only to 1 per cent of that of govern-
ment bonds. Such a ratio, however, rose to 13 per cent in 1885,
then to 85 in 1886, and to 10,900 in 1887. The total amount of
authorized capital in non-financial corporations increased from 13·4
million yen in 1884 to 189·4 million yen in 1890; and cotton manu-
facturing and railroads were by far the biggest industries which
shared in this phenomenal multiplication of the corporate form of
enterprise.
On the question of the supply of machinery, Japanese producers
made full use of the flexibility of supply of foreign makers while
at the same time taking active steps towards learning how to make
it themselves. The lack of any inhibition in the purchase of foreign
products in this regard, backed up of course by the availability of
foreign exchange, made it possible for Japan's cotton manufactur-
ing industry to expand as rapidly ~ investment funds were forth-
coming. Average annual importation of spinning machinery, for
example, amounted to ¥56,000 during 1883-6; but it rose to
¥125,000 in 1887, then jumped to ¥1,110,000 in 1888, and after
a few years' stagnation it picked up again to reach the level of
¥5,402,000 by 1897. It is obvious that if Japan had been mindful
of attaining self-sufficiency in machine-making too soon she would
not have been able to expand cotton manufacturing as rapidly as
she did. On the other hand, it is also evident that the pressure to
expand Japan's exports- the pressure which had already been felt
on account of the narrow domestic market - became all the stronger
because of the need for sufficient foreign exchange. Were it not
for the victory in the Sino-Japanese War (1894--95), which brought
her the windfall of gold and sterling (364 million yen) as indemnity
and which also opened a way for importation of foreign capital for
the first time on any significant scale, it clearly would not have been
possible for Japan to incur the aggregate unfavourable balance in
commodity trade on the scale of 310 million yen over 1896-1900
and yet to take steps to join the camp of gold standard countries
in 1897. Successful and successive wars, too, may be said to have
been an important factor in the rapid industrialization of Japan.
Chapter 9
ALEXANDER GERSCHENKRON
Harvard University
I. INTRODUCTION
THE following pages do not purport to cast the topic in a new
mould. My views on the course of European industrialization in the
nineteenth century in general and on that of Russia in particular
have been laid down in a number of essays published within the
span of the last ten or twelve years. 1 This circumstance, however,
should cause no disappointment to the members of this Conference.
A paper on an assigned topic resembles the proverbial gift horse in
that no reasonable person will expect too much from it. Still, it
need not be entirely toothless, and it is possible that a confronta-
tion of my views with those of Professor Rostow might yield one
or two additional insights ; at the very least, it may draw sharper
contours around the methodological problems involved.
area with a politically bounded country; nor to explain how the concept of the
degree of economic backwardness can be rendered measurable beyond saying that
in actual historical fact the differences in the level of economic development among
the countries of Europe were sufficiently discreet so that application of various
conceivably appropriate criteria yields very similar results with regard to the
ordinal array of the countries concerned; accordingly, for the purposes at hand,
the degree of backwardness in the given historical circumstances may be regarded
as an operationally usable concept.
Gerschenkron - Industrialization in Russia
growing internal market based in turn on growing produc-
tivity of agricultural labour.
Russia's place in the concert of European countries seated accord-
ing to the respective rank of economic backwardness was hardly
in doubt. When, in 1910, E. V. Tarle surprised the Russian public
by stating his fantastic thesis that Russia in the last quarter of the
eighteenth century was not a backward country, he stirred up a
controversy which still has not quite found its well-deserved rest.l
No such claims have confused the students of Russian economic
history in the second half of the nineteenth century. It was not
doubted that Russia in, say, 1875 was burdened with the most
backward economy among the major countries in Europe. Remain-
ing within the Continent, one had to cross the Pyrenees or the
Balkans in order to find economically even less advanced states of
any size. 2
The story of Russian industrialization in the last fifteen years or
so of the past century would seem to conform very well to the general
propositions set forth in the preceding. There was a sudden and
considerable acceleration in the rate of growth of Russian industrial
output in the second half of the 1880's. During the decade of the
1890's the rate of growth kept rising, reaching an average level of
about 8 per cent a year for the decade. It is worth noting that the
process was still gathering further momentum in the last few years
before 1900 when the upsurge, or at least its first act, was termin-
ated by the onslaught of the general crisis in Central and Eastern
Europe. It is, of course, true that interspatial and intertemporal
comparisons of industrial growth, particularly in periods of rapid
advance, must be treated with great caution.J Yet, when all is
said and done, the Russian rate of growth in the 1890's appears to
be a good deal above the annual average rates of growth achieved
during periods of rapid industrialization in, say, Germany (while
the German rates in turn exceeded comparable rates that had been
still earlier attained in England).
Similarly, the relative top-heaviness of the Russian industrial
structure as well as its relative concentration upon producers' goods
strongly impress themselves on any observer of Russian economic
1 E. V. Tarle, 'Byla li Yekaterininskaya Rossiya otstalaya strana ?'(Was Russia
under Catherine [II] a Backward Country ?), reprinted in E. V. Tarle, Sochineniya,
Vol. IV, Moscow, 1958, pp. 441-68.
• Cf. in this connexion my forthcoming paper on 'Some Aspects of Industrial-
ization in Bulgaria, 1878-1939 '.
3 Cf. my illustrations of the formidable quantitative significance of the index
number problem in : Alexander Gerschenkron, A Dollar Index of Soviet Machinery
Output, Santa Monica, 1951.
153
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
history of the period. Furthermore, during the years of industrial
upsurge in Russia the economic well-being of the Russian peasantry
was subject to extraordinary pressures. Those pressures have since
been belittled by the Soviet government's policy of super-industrial-
ization and wholesale collectivization in the 1930's. There is no
doubt, however, that in no Western country did the periods of
'industrial revolutions' exact sacrifices from the populations com-
parable to those made in Russia in the closing years of the last
century. In fact, the peasant unrest in the early years of the cen-
tury, culminating in the great wave of peasant rebellions during the
revolution of 1905, may be seen as the direct consequence of the
burdens which the industrialization of the 1890's had imposed upon
a rural population which had been eking out a miserable existence
from a barbarously primitive agriculture.
Nor can there be any doubt that all the basic features of an
industrialization that had begun in conditions of extreme backward-
ness were powerfully reinforced and accentuated by deliberate action
on the part of the gov{"rnment. Using a panoply of measures
ranging from the high protective tariff via subsidies, profit guarantees,
tax reductions, and tax exemptions accorded to industrial enter-
prises, to manifold laxities in enforcing bothersome laws and ordin-
ances and police and military help in case of labour conflicts, and
culminating in huge government orders at extremely high prices,
the Russian state furthered the growth of domestic industries. In
pursuing those policies, the state, or more concretely the Ministry
of Finance, was characteristically interested in those branches of
industry which in later usage began to be circumscribed as 'heavy
industry' ; at the same time, it was the large-scale enterprises which
established and ran large-scale plants that received help and encour-
agement. In these important respects, the policies of the Russian
government essentially reproduced the policies of the so-called
'investment banks' in a number of Central European and West
European countries. But the differences in degree were clearly
noticeable ; for the Russian government's discrimination against
'light industries' and against small enterprises in any branch of
industry was applied with even greater consistency and ruthlessness.
The several years of stagnation which came in the wake of the
crisis of 1900 tended to obscure the results of the great spurt. To
a sharp-eyed American tourist who visited the country in 1901,
'ten or fifteen years of violent stimulus seemed resulting in nothing'. 1
But Henry Adams was wrong. He failed to grasp the extent of the
1 The Education of Henry Adams, an Autobiography, Boston and New York,
1918, p. 444.
1 54
Gerschenkron - Industrialization in Russia
transformation that had taken place within the industrial structure
of the economy, to say nothing of the quantitative expansion of
that structure. A far-reaching modernization had occurred with
regard to technology, modes of entrepreneurial behaviour, managerial
practices, and aptitudes of the labour force.
This brief summary of the golden period of modern industrial-
ization in Imperial Russia must suffice here. What matters is not
a full story of the great spurt of the nineties. For that the reader
must be referred to the essays mentioned in footnote 1 on page 151,
and beyond them to a body of literature quoted or cited in those
essays. The interest at this point lies in the methodological implica-
tions. In general, the quality of an historical approach can be
gauged most clearly from a scrutiny of the limits beyond which it
cannot be pushed, and by its confrontation with the results of alter-
native views of the same subject matter. Thereby a firmer basis
may be laid for a discussion of Professor Rostow's views.
It is only the inveterate tendency of historians to prefix the
definite article to every generalization about the course of historical
events that calls for the trivial observation that the view of Russian
industrial history as summarized in the foregoing is only one of
several possible and plausible views. An illustration can be easily
provided. Instead of viewing the Russian industrialization as a
special case of an all-European pattern varying along the gradient
of economic backwardness, and instead of regarding the Russian
government as merely casting into bolder relief certain intrinsic
features of industrialization in conditions of backwardness, it is
quite possible to turn the problem round and to view the govern-
ment and its political interest as primarily determining the course
of Russian industrialization. It is then easy to order the historical
material in such a way as to put the main weight of emphasis upon
the role of the state. The result may be regarded as the 'traditional'
pattern of spurts of economic development in Russia. For the first
indications of such a pattern would go back beyond the days of
Peter the Great into the depth of the pre-Petersburg Russia of the
sixteenth century. Every spurt appears then as a recurring complex
of several unfolding sequences. At their origin stood a fundamental
conflict : the political tasks of Russian statesmen were quite 'modern'
in the sense that they had to match wits, policies, and power with
the advanced nations of the time, while the economy that should
have given sustenance to the political effort was hopelessly back-
ward. Hence economic development became a function of diplo-
matic and military pressures. When the latter rose there were
sudden attempts at economic modernization, designed to raise the
1 55
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
economic potential as quickly as possible to a level more consonant
with political needs. In their very nature, those violent spurts in-
evitably imposed heavy obligations upon the population ; this in
turn required extraordinary - and quite unmodern - means of
coercion and repression in order to make the population accept the
burdens. The government's interest in continuing the spurt might
pass with the passing of military and political conditions that had
provoked the spasm of economic activities. But often the spurt
continued until the exhaustion of the population's ability to suffer
and to endure forced a change of pace and policy upon the govern-
ment, letting the country relapse once more into a protracted state
of stagnation.
The differences between the two approaches are obvious. Partly,
they comprise variations in the course of events, but partly also
variations in the interpretation of identical events. Industrialization
of Russia involved the country's westernization under any circum-
stances. But in the 'traditional' pattern the very attempt to imitate
the West with regard to modes, techniques, and levels of production
required moving farther away from the West in some other equally
momentous respects. To the extent that the peasantry was reduced
to serfdom in order to force it to bear the cost of economic progress,
westernization of the economy seemed to be inseparably connected
with its 'orientalization '. Moreover, the 'traditional' pattern with
its built-in period of stagnation following the spurt implied a more
or less prolonged 'post-spurt' period during which the economic
backwardness of the country was again on the increase. Finally,
the injection into the body social of 'oriental' elements tended
eventually to reinforce the tendency towards stagnation. If serfdom
was originally introduced in order to promote economic develop-
ment, it became one of the major obstacles to further progress.
Thus a curious zigzag course was an integral part of the 'traditional'
pattern. By contrast, the 'all-European' pattern of growth may
indeed involve eventual decelerations, but specific obstructions of
economic development are not assumed to be created in the very
process of growth.
At the same time, elements which are common to both patterns
call for different explanations according to the pattern chosen. As
a rule, simple political interpretations in the 'traditional' pattern
are parallelled by more complex economic sequences in the 'all-
European' pattern. For in the former the government policy alone
is the explicandum. Thus in the former the urgency of military
plans, be they aggressive or defensive, serve as a sufficient reason
to explain first the start and then both the speed and the extent of
l56
Gerschenkron- Industrialization in Russia
the effort at economic development. A smashing military defeat,
suddenly revealing the weaknesses of a system is then regarded as
having caused the change in government policy. On the other hand,
if governmental action is viewed as merely accentuating and rein-
forcing causal sequences that are inherent in the economic situation
of the country concerned, political explanations will prove inade-
quate. Then, in order to explain the beginning of the great spurt,
i.e. the kink in the output curve, one may wish to regard the situation
preceding the outburst as one of tension between the potential
advantages of industrialization and the actual stagnant state of
affairs. In such a situation, further increase of tension - be it by
a technological innovation abroad that is particularly suitable to the
conditions of backwardness, or through removal of some consider-
able obstacle or obstacles to industrial progress by government
action - may move the country across the critical line beyond which
all the accumulated and as yet unutilized opportunities suddenly
come to life. It is precisely because industrialization had been so
slow in coming that the existing opportunities extend over wide
ranges, making possible simultaneous growth along a broad front
so as to permit additional advantages stemming from the creation
of circuits of reciprocal demand, generous mutual transmittals of
external economies, and unimpeded scope for indivisibilities. These
are some of the factors that make for increased tension in the pre-
spurt period ; they must be taken into account in interpreting the
meaning of Propositions (1) and (2) as set forth above. 1
Similarly, in terms of the 'traditional' pattern the concentration
on producers' goods is an obvious result of the nature of the govern-
ment's demand. If, however, the interpretation is in terms of the
'all-European' pattern, the stress on producers' goods must be
related to different factors.z One of them is the fortuitous circum-
stance that in the second half of the nineteenth century technological
progress happened to be a good deal faster in the area of producer
goods than in that of consumer goods. The later in the century
was the occurrence of the great spurt of industrialization, the more
pronounced was the differential between the rates of technological
innovations in the two areas. The more backward was an area, tht:
greater was the role played in its industrialization by borrowed
technology and the greater, therefore, the propensity to concentrate
on those branches of output within which recent technological
1 Vide supra, p. 152.
• It is true, of course, that for the world as a whole industrialization implies
an increase in the share of capital goods in total output. But for each individual
country the existence of opportunities to import machinery and equipment from
abroad provides, in principle, for widely disparate types of industrialization with
regard to the relative rates of growth of consumer and producer goods.
157
The Economics of Take-off into Sustaitted Growth
progress had been most pronounced. At the same time, however,
in the given conditions of the nineteenth century technological pro-
gress went hand in hand with, and in fact presupposed, increases
in the scale of industrial plants. Thus technological factors go far
to explain the relationships summarized in Proposition (3) above ; 1
as they also serve to cast further light on Proposition (2) 2 in which
bigness of plant is related to a country's degree of backwardness.
For technology, producers' goods, large scale of plant, and high rate
of growth- all these are closely interrelated. In particular, it has
been often observed that producer goods allow of wider and more
complex complementaries than consumer goods. To use Professor
Dahmen's term, producer goods make for larger and more effective
development blocs, and the more backward a country the more the
success of its industrialization may depend on the existence of a
hierarchy of well-adjusted development blocs.
Let us return now to the industrialization of Russia at the end
of the nineteenth century and try to ascertain the applicability to it
of what has been called the 'traditional' pattern of Russian economic
development. Clearly, our instruments of perception are not fine
enough to separate conjoint motivations and to gauge their relative
importance and influence. Yet to look for the elements of 'tradi-
tionality' in the great spurt of the 1890's is not necessarily a useless
enterprise, and may yield a few additional insights into the nature
of the transformation that was taking place.
No one studying the course of economic change in Russia during
the period under review can fail to be impressed with the extent
and intensity of the government's intervention. Military pressures,
grand designs in the field of foreign policy, old fears and new
resentments visibly hovered over Russian policies of industrializa-
tion. After the defeat in the Crimean War it was believed that the
abolition of serfdom, construction of railroads with imported
materials and equipment, and comprehensive judicial and adminis-
trative reforms would suffice to change Russia's military position
in the world. The ease with which Disraeli deprived Russia of
many of the fruits of her victory over the Turks and Prince Gorcha-
kov's helplessness at the Congress of Berlin (1878) demonstrated to
Russian statesmen that further and more positive action in the
economic field was called for, if the balance of power was to be
redressed. True, the diplomatic defeat at Berlin was not immedi-
ately followed by rapid industrialization. It took several years to
draw the inferences and to overcome the traditional aversion from
industrialization. But the connexion between the two phenomena
1 Vide supra, p. 152. z Vide supra, p. 1 52.
Gerschenkron - Industrialization in Russia
is undeniable. 1 Nor can it be gainsaid that the government's interest
in railroad building and in industries serving railroad construction
was clearly co-determined by considerations of military strategy
and the desire to assure for the army and the navy more efficient
and more plentiful supplies of products of domestic industries.
Finally, the period of stagnation that came after 1900 showed clearly
that the patience of the peasantry was exhausted ; as such it was
an all too familiar epilogue to a period of rapid growth. Those were
unmistakable elements of the 'traditional' pattern.
On the other hand, the incompleteness of the traditional pattern
in the 1890's must not be overlooked. Most of all, one would look
in vain, during the spurt of the 1890's, for any serious institutional
device that would be 'oriental' in nature and still would be designed
to make the continuation of the spurt possible. 2 More important
is another, although not unconnected point. To appreciate fully
the nature of the great spurt of the nineties one has to look beyond
it, across the years of industrial stagnation from 1900 to 1906 to
the resumption of industrial activity that began in 1907 and con-
tinued until the outbreak of World War I. In comparing the period
just mentioned with the years 1885-1900, certain differences stand
out clearly and can be summarized as follows :
1. The rate of industrial growth, exceeding as it did six per cent
per year on an average, was somewhat lower in 1907-14 than
in 1885-1900, but still quite high.
2. The Russian government, concerned with healing the wounds
in the Russian budget which had been inflicted by the war
with Japan and the revolution, did not resume the policy of
encouragement of industrial growth to any comparable extent.
3. As a result, some of the industrial enterprises which had been
established under the tutelage of the state during the earlier
period found themselves standing on their own feet and con-
tinuing their development in conditions of independence,
while others came under the financial protection of banks
1 This is not the place to supply qualifications and reservations. The con-
nexion between military interests and industrialization is never a simple one.
There is always the reproduction of the classic Colbert-Louvois conflict between
long-term plan and concern with immediate needs. There is, furthermore, the
traditional concern with agriculture as the source of manpower - rusticorum
mascula militum proles- and of draft power for the army. There is, finally, the
fear of the military leadership and of the social groups from which it springs that
industrialization while increasing the military potential of the country will reduce
the weight of the army within the state. All these were present in Russia of the
period.
• Neither the establishment of strong representatives of the central government
equipped with sweeping powers over the self-governing institutions of the peasantry
(1889), nor the attempt to provide additional protection to the field commune
(1893), can possibly vitiate the statement made in the text. Those measures were
neither important enough nor retrogressive enough to be so considered.
1 59
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
which for the first time began to surply long-term credits to
industrial enterprises and in genera to mould their policies
upon the pattern of investment banks in other European
countries.
4. With regard to bigness of plant and enterprise and to the
preference for producers' goods as against consumers' goods
the banks continued the policy previously pursued by the
Russian government ; there is, furthermore, no doubt that the
banks in many ways encouraged the cartelization and merger
movement which became very conspicuous in the years pre-
ceding the outbreak of World War I, causing the scale of
enterprise to grow even faster than the scale of plant.
5. Finally, the years 1907-14, unlike those of the earlier period,
were marked by some relaxation of the pressures upon the
levels of consumption of the masses of the population. Cer-
tain improvements, however modest, were undeniable.
It remains only to draw the inescapable conclusion. If one
regards the great spurt of 1885-1900 in isolation, at least the partial
applicability of the 'traditional' pattern along with the 'all-European'
pattern is a very defensible proposition. If, on the other hand, one
regards the whole period 1885-1907 as a unity, although an articu-
lated one, a somewhat broader and perhaps more interesting view
tends to emerge. Then indeed it becomes possible to see the great
spurt of those years as one during which the features of the 'tradi-
tional' pattern appear not only in an incomplete,. but also in a
valedictory fashion. Most important in this respect is that the
period of stagnation after 1900 was greatly foreshortened in com-
parison with its historical antecedents and lasted only for a few
years. Mter 1907 none of the 'traditional' features seem to be
clearly discernible in the process of continuing industrial growth.
In other words, while during the early part of the period 'traditional'
and 'all-European' features compete for the attention of the student
and for preference in his emphasis, in the later part of the period
it is easy to interpret Russia as partaking in a general process of
industrial development in conditions of diminishing economic back-
wardness. Another way of describing the change would be to say
that while in previous spurts of economic growth quantitative
westernization in terms of levels of output had been purchased at
the price of institutional sacrifices, on the threshold of the new
century both quantitative and institutional patterns of industrializa-
tion were integrated and became, as it were, 'homodromic '.
This cursory view of nearly three decades of Russian industrial-
ization before World War I may be conveniently terminated at this
point and with this conclusion. For elaborations and reservations
160
Gerschenkron- Industrialization in Russia
relating specifically to Russia, the interested reader may refer to the
previously cited articles. On the other hand, to the extent that
what has been said about Russia is only a segment within this
writer's general approach to the problems of European industrializa-
tion, a critical evaluation of that approach may be profitably pre-
sented against the background of Professor Rostow's views.
x6c)
Chapter 10
HARVEY LEIBENSTEIN
University of California
I. INTRODUCTION
LIKE Pirandello's 'Six Characters in Search of an Author' Professor
Rostow has given us an interesting historical hypothesis in search
of a theory. 1 While this quip exaggerates the case, since the
Economic Journal (1956) articles do have many statements about
economic behaviour, nevertheless, I believe it is correct if we interpret
'theory' in a narrow sense. The central hypothesis, and this is all
that I shall be concerned with in this paper, is that at some point
in a country's development events may occur that will considerably
speed up its rate of growth, and that when this persists for two or
three decades z the country then enters a stage of self-sustained
growth. This hypothesis is worth considering on many grounds,
not the least of which is that Rostow has succeeded in clothing it
in a language that gives his hypothesis great suggestive and evocative
power.
Some writers have been tempted to use the analogy of an aero-
plane for the take-off. If I were the inhilbitant of an island whose
last contacts with civilization were as it was a century ago, and if a
ship-wrecked sailor suddenly appeared and told me about heavier-
than-air machines that flew, and if he explained that for flight to
take place the flying entity had to have wings of a certain shape
(the pre-conditions), and that it had to be travelling at a certain
speed before it left the ground, then I would indeed find this an
1 By a theory I have in mind a clearly stated set of equations, or their verbal
counterpart, including behaviour relations, that would lead to a definite set of con-
clusions consistent with at least some observations.
• All of my references to the Take-off Hypothesis are based on the March
1956 article in the Economic Journal. Whether or not the 'two or three decades'
part of the hypothesis is correct is a matter for historians to debate. I take it that
this part of the hypothesis was meant to be interpreted elastically. I shall so inter-
pret it here.
Leibenstein- Population Growth and the Take-off Hypothesis
interesting relationship, one which would lead me to think about
aeroplanes and how they function. Nevertheless, it would not be
a 'theory' of aerodynamics. In short, it would be an hypothesis
based on observation that would inspire me to look for the theory,
but it would not of itself suggest the theory. I go out of my way
to develop this point because I am sympathetic with Rostow's
central hypothesis. 1 But, if the hypothesis is true there is still a
great deal to be done ; namely to develop the theory with which this
inductive hypothesis is in conformity. In other words, one of the
deductions from such a theory should be the historical hypothesis
that Rostow has given us.
My job in this paper is to consider the population element in
connexion with economic development in general and the 'take-off'
hypothesis in particular. In the absence of a theory it is difficult
to analyse whether what we know about the population element fits
the hypothesis. I could probably invent models in which it would
fit the hypothesis and others in which it would not. Yet, on the
whole, I think that the population element is really important for a
theory of development consistent with a take-off type hypothesis,
and I trust that the following remarks will suggest that this is
the case.
The discussion that follows will be suggestive rather than
rigorous, since in the space allotted it is clearly impossible to con-
sider in detail a large number of alternative theories and to examine
the population element in each of them. Since the population
variable is only one of many in any theory of development we shall
have to allude from time to time to some of the other variables in
the system, but this will be done rather sketchily for the reason
just given.
Many authors on development seem to treat population growth
as an exogenous and autonomously determined variable that repre-
sents a hurdle to per capita income growth. In the discussion that
follows I will argue that viewing population growth entirely as an
autonomous variable is not a view that is likely to be consistent with
the take-off hypothesis. On the other hand, population is not an
entirely endogenously induced phenomenon. I shall argue that
both elements (autonomous and endogenously induced population
growth) are involved simultaneously, that they are to a great extent
inversely related to each other, and that this view of the matter is
most likely to be consistent with a take-off type hypothesis.
1 I am, in a sense, committed to being sympathetic since the type of theories
that I have attempted to develop in the past have been in conformity with what
I interpret to be Rostow's central non-gradualist position. Cf. my Economic
Backwardness and Economic Growth, John Wiley and Sons, New York, 1957.
171
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
VI. CONCLUSIONS
I have tried to suggest where population growth could fit into
a theory consistent with a take-off type hypothesis. The main
point is that the take-off hypothesis denies gradualism and prob-
ably implies a pre-take-off stage of sustained backwardness. The
population growth element enters as a factor that helps to explain
the relative high degree of stability that we may attach to the state
of self-sustained backwardness. Also, I have argued that while
population growth is an obstacle to development it is by no means
an insurmountable hurdle, and therefore, given a sufficient stimulus,
we may visualize rates of investment sufficiently high to overcome
this obstacle. But population growth is an obstacle to self-sustained
growth that cannot be surmounted by very small stimuli to growth,
or by stimuli whose effects are of very short duration, but with a
sufficient stimulus it could be surmounted. In addition we con-
sidered the possibility that the onset of fertility decline may occur
during the crucial two or three take-off decades. From that point
of view the early onset of fertility decline may help to sustain or to
hasten the transition to self-sustained growth.
We argued further that it was incorrect to consider population
growth entirely as an exogenous variable, just as it would be incor-
rect to look upon it entirely as an endogenous variable. Rather,
we argued that autonomous and induced population growth operated
simultaneously and that the magnitude of one bore in some respects
an inverse relation to the other. The obstacles to growth created by
both autonomous and induced population growth are probably
greater today than they have been in the past, but their maximum
magnitude is still sufficiently small so that it could be overcome by
a sufficiently large and sustained inducement to greater investment
rates.
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
Finally, an attempt was made to outline briefly a theory of
fertility decline and to suggest the possibility that there may in some
cases be a connexion between the onset of fertility decline and the
necessary minimal push required to enter a period of self-sustained
growth.
Chapter 11
HARVEY LEIBENSTEIN
University of California
I. INTRODUCTION
T H.E neo-classical theory of price, production, and output did not
lead to the development of a theory of innovations. Apart from
Schumpeter's work, inventions and innovations have been matters
left outside of economic theory. In recent years there have been
some attempts to develop investment functions that incorporate
'technical progress', but for the most part, these have not been
widely accepted. The situation is still very much up in the air.
But, if we are to have a take-off type theory of development this
implies that at some point the induced rate of investment must be
accelerated and that this higher rate of investment must sustain
itself. But why should the rate of investment at a somewhat higher
level of per capita income be higher than at a lower level ? Tem-
porary exogenous events could explain occasional high investment
rates, but this would be just as true for backward as for less backward
and growing economies.
A major argument that is often put forward is connected with
the rate of savings. It is argued that at higher levels of per capita
income the subsistence requirements for most of the population are
met, and a higher rate of savings out of non-subsistence income
naturally occurs. While this may not be unreasonable and may be
a contributing factor, it is really a theory that depends on the savings
bottleneck as a deterrent to high rates of investment. In other
words, if this were the only factor involved, it would then imply that
sufficient investment inducements always exist irrespective of the
stage of development that the country is in, and that the problem
would be solved if only there were enough savings. In this paper
I want to take the opposite viewpoint. I want to consider part of
a model in which the inducement to invest is the crucial bottleneck
to overcome. In particular, I want to suggest a type of production
I8S
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
function and some generalizations about inventions and innovations
which support the argument that at some stage in the development
process there will exist effective inducements for relatively high
levels of investment that do not exist in the pre-take-off stage.
There is very much more to the problem of investment deter-
mination than the points made in this paper. What follows does
not pretend to be a theory of investment. It is only part of the
picture. I simply want to sketch some notions about the nature of
the production function and the nature of technical progress that
would support the type of investment functions under which low
rates of investment would exist in the pre-take-off stage and high
rates afterwards. 1
At the outset it may be well to begin with a few general state-
ments that could be made about economic development with which
very few would quarrel. For instance: (1) the technological inven-
tions of the last few centuries are the prime factors that make it
possible for a country to shift from low levels of income per capita
to high levels of income per head. (2) Capital accumulation is not
enough. At low levels of technical knowledge there are severe
limits to the extent to which output per man could be increased by
mere capital accumulation. (3) It is only because of the vast increases
in technical knowledge, especially with respect to the utilization of
non-animal energy sources, that we are able to increase output per
man considerably. The question to be answered is this: In view
of the possibilities available today via the utilization of modern pro-
duction techniques, why do low income countries in many of their
production processes employ such primitive techniques of pro-
duction ? The obvious and perhaps somewhat superficial answer
that we have all learned to give to this question is a lack of capital
accumulation, or at least a lack of capital accumulation at a sufficient
rate so as to increase, considerably, capital per worker. While this
may be true, I believe that it is a somewhat unsatisfactory answer.
The argument appears to depend very much (indeed, too much)
on changes in the propensity to save within a rather narrow range.
Suppose that the rate of population growth is 2 per cent and the
capital output ratio is 3 : 1. It is quite common for an economy
with a low rate of per capita income to have a net savings rate of
around 6 per cent. If its net savings are 7! per cent then per capita
income will grow at ! per cent rate per year. Does the answer
1 Whether my theory is correct or not is an empirical question which remains
to be considered at a later time. But there may, nevertheless, be some value in
trying to present such a theory at this juncture in a bold and simplified fashion,
if only perhaps to enable us to focus our attention and discussion on the relation
between technical progress, the production function, and economic development.
186
Leibenstein- Technical Progress and Development
really lie in the belief that such economies can manage to save 6 per
cent but simply cannot handle 7! per cent? It depends too much
on arithmetic - too much on the propensity to consume. In other
words. I feel that a greater part of the burden of the answer should
lie on the inducement to invest rather than on the propensity to
save. There is, of course, much more to the inducement to invest
than those elements of it connected with technical progress. How-
ever, I suspect that a part of the argument may lie in the nature of
technical progress and the impact of technical progress on produc-
tion functions. What follows is a sketch of the type of production
function that is somewhat different from that commonly found in
the literature, but which is consistent with the take-off hypothesis.
0 Units of labour
FIG. 1.
Q"
Units of labour
FIG. 3.
VI. CONCLUSIONS
Sustained economic growth (in the per capita income sense)
requires that the firms in the economy shift periodically (and almost
continuously) towards the choice of production techniques that
yield greater and greater outputs per man. Whether or not firms
are motivated ( 1) to move along the production function towards
higher capital-labour ratios, and (2) to take advantage of the inven-
tions that take place from time to time, will depend on, among
other things, (a) the wage rate, (b) the nature of the production
function, and (c) the locus of inventions. But there are circum-
stances in which, even if wage rates tend to rise, a shift towards new
techniques will not take place. I presented the outline of a model
that shows why the inducements to adopt techniques that increase
output per man would exist more readily at high incomes per head
than at low. The model suggests that one of the potential obstacles
to growth faced by a low income country may lie in the nature of
some of the production functions, in the locus of inventions and
technical progress, and in the degree of knowledge that entrepreneurs
may have about such inventions.
On the shape of the production function it was argued that
there are considerable indivisibilities and that these indivisibilities
are likely to be more significant at low capital-labour ratios than at
high ; that for a given segment around a point on the production
function there will be more distinct techniques available at the
higher capital-labour ratios than at the lower ones. It was also
argued that this is in part due to the historical locus of ' normal'
inventions and production improvements which, in turn, depend
on the points on the production function at which there is likely
to be a greater degree of specialization and standardization. In
other words, it was suggested that there is likely to be a greater
incidence of invention at those points where standardization and
specialization become economically more feasible. Finally, it was
suggested that the firm does not know all of the technical alternatives
on its production function. It could only shift easily to those alter-
natives that it knows. And the nature of the situation is such that
it is likely to know more alternatives where the capital-labour ratio
is high than where it is low. The small scale of plant in a backward
199
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
economy, and the lack of some of the complementary inputs neces-
sary for production were mentioned as additional deterrents to the
adoption of new production techniques. It was suggested that both
of these elements are, in turn, related to indivisibilities in the
production function and to the locus of technological progress. The
point of these suggestions (if they are correct) is that they are con-
sistent with higher sustained rates of investment at the higher
capital-labour ratios.
200
Chapter 12
MOGENS BOSERUP
I. INTRODUCTION
I HAVE been asked to deal with agricultural developments in relation
to the take-off into sustained growth. This theme is a vast one
and must be narrowed down considerably if it is to be at all manage-
able within a short paper. Accordingly, I have chosen to deal
primarily with the problem of agrarian reform, by which I mean
that process in which the social structure of agriculture, with regard
to property, labour, and types of enterprise, changes from feudal
or other pre-capitalist forms to modern ones. The importance of
this transformation for technological progress in agriculture, and
hence for the take-off, will, I hope, become clear as we proceed.
A few general reflections may first be offered, before the tnore
particular problems of the agrarian structure are taken up in Sec-
tions II and III below.
There is undoubtedly a sense in which it is true to say that
improvements in the productivity of agricultural labour govern
economic progress generally. If we consider Europe's economic
history in a very broad sweep, it seems obvious that the long period
of economic and cultural advance in the late middle ages -say,
from A.D. 1000 onwards - would be unthinkable without the funda-
mental innovations in agricultural techniques which had begun to
spread in the preceding centuries - the three-field system, the
wheel-plough, the horse-collar, and the horse-shoe being perhaps
the most important among them. Likewise, it is a commonplace
that there could not have been a second period of secular growth
as that beginning in the eighteenth century without the second
major revolution of agricultural procedures, the most prominent
feature of which was the supersession of the three-field system by
new systems of crop rotation.
But such genet alizations are rather too sweeping to be of much
interest. They are in the nature of 'comparative historical statics'
which evade the questions of causation that arise when we try to
201
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
understand the actual process in particular countries or regions
within more narrowly defined periods. We are then interested to
know how the processes were set off, from where the stimulus
came ; in short, we want to establish some hierarchical order among
the many interacting causes of economic progress. More particu-
larly, we want to know by what kinds of stimuli agriculture was
made to fulfil its various roles in economic development. These
roles may be schematically listed as five in number, namely (1)
to provide a marketable surplus of food for the towns, (2) to create
rural markets for industrial goods, (3) to secure a flow of surplus
labour for an expanding urban sector, (4) to provide real finance
and (in some cases) entrepreneurship for industrial growth and (5)
to provide export earnings.
In a first go, we may ask two questions about the historically
observed relationships between agricultural growth and take-off.
I cannot pretend to give a conclusive answer to either of them, but
still it may be useful to state them and to add a few reflections.
The first question is this : Are there examples of successful take-
off without a preceding or concurrent expansion of agricultural output
and productivity ?
The answer would have to be in the negative, it seems. In
other words, historical evidence suggests that a low elasticity of
supply in agriculture cannot be made good by imports of food,
except at a cost in the form of worsened terms of trade which would
in itself preclude industrial growth. There seem, in fact, to be only
three clear examples where a period of rapid economic growth
coincided with increasing reliance on food imports. These are
Holland in the seventeenth, 1 Britain in the nineteenth, and Japan
in the twentieth century. In all three cases the conditions for
foreign trade (i.e. for exports of manufactures) were exceptionally
favourable for the country in question, especially in comparison
with the present position of the under-developed countries. The
main thing to note is, however, that in both Britain and Japan the
reliance on food imports came at a relatively late stage, after the
period usually described as that of take-off.
This empirical rule seems to find some further confirmation if
we ask a complementary question : are there examples of a seem-
ingly promising beginning of industrialization and urban growth
1 The Dutch example struck contemporary observers as both admirable and
exceptional. For instance Cantillon: 'The Dutch exchange their labour . . .
with the foreigners generally against the produce of the land. • . . But all these
advantages are refinements and accidental cases which I here consider only in
passing.' (Essai sur la nature du commerce en genbal, quoted from I.N .E. D. edition,
Paris, 1952, p. 47.) In the same vein, Quesnay admitted the possibility of a
Royaume Commerfant as existing, at best, only for small countries.
202
Boserup- Agrarian Structure and Take-off
being arrested before it could lead up to a successful take-off,
and where this can be plausibly ascribed, at least for a major part,
to a failure of agriculture to follow the lead given by the urban
sectors ? India towards the end of the nineteenth and in the begin-
ning of the twentieth century (say, from 1880 onwards) can perhaps
be seen as an example of such a constellation. There was no dearth
of entrepreneurial initiative ; an urban bourgeoisie with a 'Western'
outlook was beginning to develop ; and shortage of foreign capital
could not have been a major limiting factor. Also, transport and
communications had improved explosively by the construction of
railways in the preceding decades. Without neglecting other im-
portant causes it seems reasonable to suggest that a main obstacle
preventing the beginning of industrialization in India from leading
into a period of cumulative growth was an insufficient expansion
of rural markets for industrial goods, reflecting in its turn a highly
inelastic supply of agricultural output. Mexico is perhaps another
example : there was a considerable growth of industry in the first
decade of the present century, followed, it seems, by relapse into
stagnation. More sustained growth came about only after the
problem of land reform had begun to be tackled in the inter-war
period.
The second question is this : Are there examples of a successful
take-off which could be said to have been carried by agriculture ? In
other words, can agriculture be a 'leading' sector? 1
AJ:, long as we think of agriculture as the sector supplying basic
foods it is obvious that this can be the case only if the expansion
of agriculture arises from the pull of foreign demand. The examples
that most readily come to mind are those of Russian and United
States grain exports and of Danish exports of animal products.
Economic history suggests, however, that even in cases where large
new export possibilities open up, all that can be expected from
agriculture is an initial stimulus, giving the ignition, as it were, to
an all-round growth for which the general conditions were already
present. At least, it is difficult to think of examples of countries
where agricultural productivity (per man, not per unit of land)
reached a high level, judged by the standards of the time, while the
share of total manpower engaged in agriculture continued to be also
relatively high.
Here again, we can ask a complementary question : Can we
think of cases where agricultural expansion appears to have been
1 The concept of 'leading' sector, or sector of 'primary growth' is taken in the
sense suggested by Professor Rostow (The Process of Econ&mic Growth, 2nd edition,
1960, p. 261 ff.).
203
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
frustrated by the failure of the urban sectors to expand pari passu ?
In other words, have we seen an agriculture with a high potential
elasticity of supply being held back by a failure of urban demand
to expand ? (Admittedly, this kind of question is suspicious and
perhaps not quite meaningful ; it easily leads into fruitless specula-
tions of 'conditional history', asking what might have happened,
if only . . .)
The examples that come to mind are in the nature of rather
short-lived episodes, governed by special conditions and thus of
little interest for the problem of the general conditions for a take-
off. There was, for instance, the 'scissors crisis' in the USSR in
the early 'twenties, when Russian agriculture was recovering its
productive capacity while industry was not yet ready to deliver the
quid pro quo. Or, to take another example, the failure of Polish
agricultural production to expand in the post-war period (or its
tendency to recoil into self-sufficiency) may have to be explained
largely by a lack of incentive goods from industry.
More pertinent to the problem of take-off is the case where
prolonged periods of rapid and sustained increase in agricultural
exports failed to give the ignition to all-round progress. The
standard example is, of course, the export boom of some countries
of South-East Asia starting in the decades after the opening of the
Suez Canal. The rates of expansion were high by any standard.
For instance, the value of Burma's exports increased fairly regularly
by some 5 per cent annually in the three decades after 1870, and
similar rates were registered in Thailand and Indonesia. 1 But
nothing resulted which could reasonably be described as a take-
off. In trying to account for this fact it is important to avoid the
pitfalls of over-simplification and monocausal analysis. Some points
may be briefly mentioned. In so far as the export expansion was
in the traditional lines of agricultural production - say, the rice
exports of Burma and Thailand - it has been pointed out z that
this required only the expansion of the cultivated area, without any
changes in the methods used in subsistence agriculture ; thus, no
important technical reorientation was involved. And as regards the
new industrial crops introduced by foreign plantation companies,
as in Ceylon, Malaya, and Indonesia, we have at least three im-
portant factors to help explain why no genuine take-off could
ensue : first, no high labour skill was required, and the labour
attracted largely consisted of immigrants who remained aloof from
1 See H. Myint, 'The "Classical" Theory of International Trade and the
Underdeveloped Countries', in The EcmwmicJournal, June 1958.
a Ibid.
Boserup -Agrarian Structure and Take-off
the indigenous subsistence sector of agriculture. Secondly - a
point stressed by Maurice Bye 1 - these foreign enterprises were
strictly 'capital-autonomous', so that no saving could flow from
them to other urban activities. Thirdly, the 'linkage effect', both
forward and backward, in terms of inter-industry relations, was
weak. 2 Thus, the causes for the lack of over-all growth in the
South-East Asian export economies were rather different from the
case of India where, as just mentioned, industrial growth appears
to have been thwarted by the failure of agriculture to expand. How-
ever, the two cases have this in common that the immobility of the
subsistence sector of agriculture can be seen as the root trouble.
This rapid and necessarily superficial review of historical evi-
dence in various regions and epochs suggests - not surprisingly -
that in processes of economic growth agriculture tends to be lagging
behind, to be the limiting sector. In some vague sense, agricultural
growth appears usually to have been a secondary, derived adaptation
to what happened in the urban sectors.J In the normal course of
events, new things do not originate in the agricultural milieu : a
pull or a push from outside seems to be needed, be it the pull of
foreign demand, the opening of new transport systems, the appear-
ance of new consumer goods to tempt the subsistence peasant 4
or the drain of manpower away from agriculture.
In other words, it is reasonable to presume that as the general
rule agriculture will exhibit a low supply elasticity which tends to
act as a brake on economic growth. This has in fact been a principal
theme in thinking about economic growth all through. It was basic
to the physiocratic doctrine, most clearly put, perhaps, in this
dictum by Turgot : 'What the agriculturist's industry causes the
earth to produce beyond his personal wants is the only fund for the
salaries which all the other members of the society receive'.s It
turned up again, with a somewhat different motivation and a rather
more pessimistic slant, in Ricardo's long-term view of economic
development, and the modern development literature often operates
1 'Le Rale du capital dans le developpement konomique ', in Economie
Appliquee, 1958, No.3.
a On these concepts, see Albert 0. Hirschman, The Strategy of Economic
Development, Yale University Press, 1959, ch. 6.
a For instance, the sequence by which the new methods of crop rotation during
and after the eighteenth century were propagated to various parts of Europe was
closely related to the degree of urban development. ' Flanders . . . with Brabant
was really the cradle of the reforms of cultivation. But • • . the influence from
the Netherlands reached France not directly but only by the detour over Great
Britain.' (Marc Bloch, Les Caracteres origirulUX de l'histlllre rurale fran;aise, Paris,
1931, p. 220.)
4 This possibility of provoking improvements in agriculture was mentioned by
Malthus.
s Rijlexions, etc., para. S.
205
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
with models in which the supply elasticity of agriculture is assumed
to be very low or even zero, and the pace of investment, and hence
of progress, is seen to depend primarily upon the gap between the
output of basic food and the necessary consumption of it by its
producers.• The same idea naturally underlies much of the plan-
ning in under-developed countries where food shortage is hovering.
If it were to be put in a nutshell, the planning procedure in India
could be said to consist in making a bold guess at the rate at which
the output of foodgrains can be stepped up, and then to let all the
rest of the plan follow from this guess. There is something almost
physiocratic about this procedure. But then there is also a striking
analogy between the present Indian situation and that of eighteenth-
century France : the idea of and quest for economic progress among
the intelligentsia, and on the other hand a desperately immobile
and tradition-bound agriculture.
If a low supply elasticity is thus a characteristic feature of agri-
culture, this has to do, of course, with the fact that production is
tied to the land, most of which, in the normal case, is already occu-
pied. In saying this, I am not suggesting that the difficulty lies in
the scarcity of land as such. 2 But the fact that the agricultural
enterprise is tied to a particular piece of land implies that innova-
tion cannot be introduced by the normal process of competition in
which new and more efficient enterprises grow up side by side with
the traditional enterprises, pricing them out of the market. The
old enterprise has, so to say, to be conquered from within - or to
be smashed by other and often more brutal methods than simple
competition. In other words the traditional cultivator of the soil
must be either changed in his whole outlook - which is never easy
- or else he must be removed, be it by eviction or by emancipation.
I suppose that the very reason why we want at this conference
to raise the question specifically about agriculture's role in the
take-off- rather than that of industry, transport, or trade- is
this presumption of a peculiar inertness in agriculture. The implica-
tion is that the reform of the agrarian structure is an essential pre-
condition for that increase of labour productivity in agriculture and
1 See, for instance, James Duesenberry in The American Economic Review, May
1952, p. 558 ff. ; M. Kalecki, 'El problema del financiamento del desarrollo eco-
n6mico', in El Trimestre Economico, Oct.-Dec. 1954; N. Kaldor, 'Crescimento,
Equilibrio e Desequilibrio', in Revista Brasiliera de Econ6mia, March 1957; M.
Dobb, An Essay on Economic Growth and Planning, London, 1960, p. 29.
2 Even in the densely populated countries of Asia, the purely physical possi-
bilities of raising output per unit of land by the application of already known tech-
niques are very great. On the point that land resources are ceasing to be the
critical factor for agricultural progress, see Th. w. Schultz, 'A New Era for Agri-
culture in Economic Growth', in The Indian Journal of Agricultural Economics,
Dec. 1959.
206
Boserup- Agrarian Structure and Take-off
of its marketable output without which a take-off into sustained,
overall growth is not possible. Accordingly, the remaining parts
of this paper are devoted to a more detailed discussion of agrarian
reform as it relates to changes in technology and to the take-off.
It must be noted that the term 'reform' is here taken in a wide sense,
including benevolent legislation as well as unorganized and brutal
change of old structures by enclosures and other forms of eviction.
First the rather variegated experience of the leading European
countries is considered and an attempt is made to distinguish some
main patterns. Next, this European experience is compared and
contrasted with the present agrarian problems in the under-developed
world, for which the region of South Asia is taken as the frame of
reference. The discussion is limited throughout to the problems of
take-off in countries of old settlement. This means leaving aside
the U.S.A., Australia, and other countries where the problem of
superseding an age-old structure of sedentary agriculture did not
arise. Likewise, the modern plantation economy is left aside since,
in the normal case, it is not confronted with a problem of insufficient
elasticity of supply.
215
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
222
Boserup - Agrarian Structure and Take-off
consolidation of holdings and for the elimination of common pasture
rights. These are problems which cannot easily be solved without
hurting small vested interests, and knowing what stubborn resist-
ance was put up in some European countries where the peasant was
strong, for instance in France, we should not be surprised that so
little progress has been achieved in Asia.
Of course, this conflict between the two aims of agrarian reform
-justice and efficiency - is only one aspect of the difficulties of
formulating an economic policy apt to facilitate a take-off in the
now underdeveloped countries. As has so often been pointed out,
the quest for development, i.e. for rationalization of production,
arises more or less simultaneously with the quest for welfare policies,
and these two aims tend to dictate different solutions.
Looking at the agrarian problem from a slightly different angle,
we can sum up by saying that the policies of agrarian reform in
South Asia, as hitherto carried out, do not reflect a clear decision as
to what kind of entrepreneur - big or small, owner or tenant,
private or co-operative - is to be the vehicle of the hoped-for
agricultural progress. However, in actual fact- and barring a
solution on Chinese lines - there does not seem to be a wide range
of choice left open. Among the types of entrepreneur mentioned
above as having dominated in various parts of Europe during the
take-offs, the first two - the 'British' and the 'Eastern' types -
are not likely to become important in South Asian agriculture. There
is little precedence of either the large-scale capitalist tenant holding
or of the 'seigneurial' estate under direct cultivation, and a policy
to promote such kinds of large agricultural units would be highly
unpopular with the politically strong middle-layer of peasants. Since
nobody would suggest that share-croppers and other small tenants
could become an element of agricultural progress, we seem to be
left with the peasant-owner.
What then, we may finally ask, is the chance of progress, suffi-
ciently rapid to carry a take-off, under the auspices of the peasant-
owner ? Against the background of European experience, the chance
might not be rated very high. But before jumping to a pessimistic
conclusion, there are at least two considerations we must take into
account. First, the idea of the immobile 'Asian peasant', unrespon-
sive to market signals, is perhaps an over-simplification. The
economic history of South Asia, especially in Burma and Indonesia,
provides some quite striking examples of how new profitable oppor-
tunities, with new crops and new markets, were quickly seized by
the peasants. Secondly, there is the new factor of Community
Development which, from one point of view, can be seen as an attempt
223
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
to make up for the lack of an adequate type of entrepreneur in agri-
culture. Community Development has perhaps not yet had a fair
chance to show how effective it can be in stimulating initiative among
otherwise tradition-bound peasants.
But even if a rather optimistic view is taken of the degree of
dynamism of which peasant agriculture may prove capable if aided
by official efforts of Community Development and the like, the
question is how rapidly the needed change in attitudes can be effected.
Will it take a decade - or a couple of generations ? This question
has an important bearing on the very idea of a take-off. It is the
essence of the Rostow hypothesis of the take-off that to arrive at
sustained growth a country must pass through a fairly short period
- a couple of decades - of distinctly accelerated growth. If this
view is accepted, it can be argued that the change in peasant agri-
culture, even on favourable assumptions, would be too slow to effect
the needed break-through (unless, of course, the food problem were
solved by continuous and massive foreign assistance). The corollary
would then be that the agrarian structure needs an overhaul as
thorough as that made in China, where the manager has been substi-
tuted for the small peasant or share-cropper, and the whole lay-out
of the village land has been changed. But it is also possible to argue
that the now underdeveloped countries need not necessarily pass
though a distinctive 'take-off' period, but can more gradually and
slowly creep into the stage of sustained growth. I wanted only to
state this problem, not to attempt to give an answer to it.
Chapter 13
0. G. de BULHOES
Brazilian Institute of Economics
2JI
Tk Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
can also see the most primitive methods. The same applies to
fishermen. The old methods are not just typical of farmers, but are
common to any field of activity where people are indifferent to new
techniques. But the retrograde attitude is a more complex problem.
Even though new technique is accepted, people may be so influenced
by prejudice that they may remain backward.
The relationships which are often established between the
stabilization of money and economic stagnation, between poverty
and agricultural production, between colonialism and the export of
raw materials, between wealth and heavy industry, represent a series
of half-truths which can very easily be changed into prejudice which
is so harmful to good economic judgment.
One of the Brazilian regions which was making satisfactory
progress is about to become victim of this bias. It is a fact that
Brazil for several years adopted an exchange policy by which the
currency was overvalued. This measure had the purpose of facilita-
ting the import of equipment, raw materials and fuel, so as to foster
the country's industrialization.
This was a measure that could be carried out because coffee
was the main source of foreign currency and its price could be
sustained at high levels in foreign markets. But the main effect of
this policy was to increase competition with the Brazilian coffee
producers and to reduce other Brazilian exports, including those of
Rio Grande do Sul, the progress of which depends mostly on the
export of meat, wool, rice, and various other products of its diversi-
fied activities.
The realization of the destructive power of the above mentioned
prejudice has another aspect in the case of Rio Grande do Sul.
Because we have little fuel and many waterfalls, our engineers
placed more emphasis on the construction of hydro-electric power
plants and neglected the thermo-electric plants, especially since
fuel imports were considered to be the reason for the lack of stability
in the balance of payments. 1 Rio Grande do Sul, however, is a
state that does not have many waterfalls, but it has coal, although of
inferior quality. Since little attention was paid to the thermo-
electric plants, and there was much concern with fuel import, Rio
Grande do Sul, instead of expanding the thermo-electric energy,
developed a large-scale campaign for utilization of its coal, for rail-
road and maritime transportation. But this campaign was soon
proved to be fruitless, because with the policy of the artificial ex-
ternal increase in the cruzeiro value, mentioned in the previous
paragraph, the use of fuel oil was found to be so convenient that
1 Conselho Nacional de Economia : Testimony of John Cotrin, May 1960.
232
BulhOes - Agriculture and Economic Development
Rio Grande do Sul decided to build thermo-electric power plants
using fuel oil.
There are also the cases of a priori judgment. Frequently the
poverty of a country is pre-judged in the light of the high percentage
of its agricultural income. There are several reasons why I say
this is an a priori judgment : first, because a country such as Den-
mark, which shows a much higher percentage of the agricultural
product than other countries do, in relation to the total national
product, nevertheless cannot be considered a poor country ; second,
because the percentage of agricultural production can include a
considerable share of exports, which are balanced by imported
equipment and raw materials. In this case, the exports' share of
the agricultural production is in fact, an 'indirect' production of
equipment. If we deduct the exports from the Brazilian agricultural
production, we shall find that this production is not even 20 per cent
of the national production. It is a similar percentage to that of
Denmark. In other words, a part of the Brazilian agricultural
production signifies in fact a production of equipment in the United
States, France, Germany, and Japan. But greater still is the illusion
as to the significance of agriculture, considering its small percentage
in relation to the total product. The small proportion of the agri-
cultural product in comparison with the national product in countries
like the United States, where the percentage is only 5 per cent, give
rise to serious mistakes in interpretation.
On this subject, it must be said that the quick decrease in the
proportion of the agricultural product, as compared with the national
product, comes mostly from the considerable increase in services.
A great part of these services are related to the agricultural product.
We should transcribe the following words by Professor Theodore
Schultz:
'There are two major differences between industry and agri-
culture with regard to technology. First, the basic and applied
research in the sciences that contributes to the advances in agri-
cultural technology is not done by the firm (farm) but by public
agencies, namely, the state agricultural experiment stations and
the U.S. Department of Agriculture. In Industry most of this
research is done by the firm and, since it is costly, only large
corporations can afford to engage in it. In agriculture, by contrast,
the necessary research has been not only institutionalized but
socialized. The small family-type farm is obviously in no position
to finance, organize and conduct the highly complicated, costly
studies entailed in agricultural chemistry, plant and animal breed-
ing, feeding, agronomy, and the many other applied sciences that
enter into farm technology. It is, therefore, appropriate that the
233
The Economics of Talu-off into Sustained Growth
cost be borne by society as a whole, through the agency of the
government. Since the research is done by public agencies, the re-
sults are and should be available to any and all producers. Any
discoveries improving the technology, therefore, do not become
the property of a particular group of farmers.' 1
Without taking into account the value of these researches nor
the services of technical assistance but only those of the conserva-
tion of agriculture resources, the United States spend close to one
billion dollars a year. These are data which show the lack of con-
sistency of those who disregard the connexion between services and
agricultural activities. In other words, the value of the agricultural
product does not convey all the importance of agriculture in the
total national product.
It should further be pointed out that the small percentage of
farming is far from being insignificant in relation to other produc-
tion as it is generally assumed, especially when one thinks of the
oil and automobile production. The following explanation of the
national product in the United States places the problem in its due
perspective :
National Income by Industry
(millions of dollars)
1956 1958
Agriculture, forestry, and fisheries 16,087 18,971
Mining 6,243 5,302
Contract construction 19,515 19,879
Manufacturing :
Food and kindred products 8,799 9,093
Textile-mill products 4,382 3,940
Chemicals and allied products 7,739 7,967
Products of petroleum and coal 4,344 3,828
Primary metal industries 10,891 8,964
Machinery 12,182 10,634
Electrical machinery 7,521 8,953
Automobiles 7,227 5,927
Neither the oil, nor the automobile nor the machine industry,
separately, equal the value of farming.
The breakdown of the national product in the United States
shows the extraordinary diversification of its production. None of
the different items which contribute to the formation of the national
product stand out very conspicuously. It is exactly in this point,
perhaps, that we can distinguish with greater precision a developed
1 Agriculturl in an Unstabk Economy, p. 75.
234
BulhOes - Agriculture and Economic Development
country from one in the process of development. In the first, the
national product breaks down in various items of equal impor-
tance. In the second, there are one or two specialized products
which in value stand out distinctly from the others.
The diversification of production in countries like New Zealand,
Australia, Denmark centres around agricultural productions. In
Brazil, however, save in a few regions, the diversification will com-
prise activities other than those of farming. The Viscount of Cain!
predicted such a diversification. At the very beginning of the
nineteenth century, right after the publication of the Wealth of
Nations, this prominent Brazilian hastened to tell both Brazilian
and Portuguese about such an important work. And concerning
Adam Smith's criticism of the physiocrats, the Viscount of Cain!,
emphasizing his views, brilliantly conveyed his ideas with the
following remarks : 1
'Adam Smith criticized the French economists who urged the
promotion of agriculture to a rather excessive degree, proposing
that manufactured goods and marketing be curtailed, treating
them as an industry of inferior and secondary importance. . . .
Any sensible person cannot help feeling happy at seeing well
cultivated fields. The whole matter consists in providing better
ways of promoting agriculture along the lines in the proportions
which are most suitable to each country and in a balanced pro-
portion to the other industries.'
VII. CONCLUSION
These considerations, if correct, show that primary products
in several countries which are in the development stage, offer a
high degree of productivity. I think that what Professor Haberler
said on this subject in a lecture delivered in Rio and later in Cairo
is correct:
'a high commercial level, with a concentrated number of goods,
is still preferable to a limited level of commercial activity, although
diversified'.
Brazil could be richer if besides coffee and cocoanut other pro-
ducts were exported in larger quantity. But, in order to diversify
2J8
Bulhoes - Agriculture and Economic Development
Brazil should not neglect the large economic value of the coffee and
cocoanut production, since a great part of its economic development
is due to these two products, of which it has been the supplier of
the world market.
We have been able to progress because we have understood
how to diversify our production with the results of the specialized
products. The State of Sao Paulo, in 1960, is an important indus-
trial centre because the 'Paulistas' have shown their ability in
re-investing the gain from coffee production in a variety of economic
activities. Usually specialized production in agriculture requires
organization and overhead capital. These requisites facilitate the
diversification of production. The production of rubber in the
Amazon being morP- a trade of collecting wild things than of organ-
ized production is less favourable to reinvestment.
It is sometimes said that rich countries are those which have
in their soils energy resources, especially those of coal and petroleum.
The intelligence of those men who dedicate themselves to research
can overcome the lack of these elements. The world is full of
examples.
A Brazilian writer, Viana Moog, in a book called Pioneiros e
bandeirantes, tries to follow the development of the United States and
Brazil. He shows the enormous natural advantages of the soil of
the United States. He mentions other conditions less convincingly.
But, at a certain point, he shows a series of extraordinary and exceed-
inglyingenious inventions in the United States, which reveal not only a
sharp initiative, but also a tremendous ability to be made applicable
to production. Fortunately in Brazil we have evidence of high initiative
and of a fair capacity to invention, as demonstrated by the great
progress we have achieved in civil engineering. We lack, never-
theless, a more adequate education in understanding better the great
economic and social problems. We must understand the facts so
as not to let ourselves be dominated by prejudice, the effects of
which were outlined in Section IV. Therefore, it is necessary to
disseminate a minimum of principles to facilitate economic under-
standing, in order that we may be able to witness the miracle men-
tioned in the Biblical story, so beautifully recalled by Toynbee,
when he refers to the power of the people of Israel at the time of
Solomon, because the King instead of asking for riches prayed
God to give him as divine gift the capacity of understanding.
12 239
Chapter 14
A. K. CAIRNCROSS
University of Glasgow
I. THE ISSUES
THE wise men who invited me to introduce a discussion on capital
formation and its contribution to take-off have shown a flattering
confidence in my gamesmanship. This fourteenth session of the
conference has the misfortune to relate to a subject that is by no
means foreign to the preceding twelve and overlaps with the re-
maining two. Of necessity, however, it has been prepared in ignor-
ance of their contents. I can, therefore, neither avail myself of the
fruits of my colleagues' researches nor refrain from trespassing on
ground already covered or about to be covered. I must plead guilty
in advance to the charge of not knowing what we have been talking
about. I plead guilty also to the more serious charge of not know-
ing what we are talking about. The concepts of capital formation
and take-off are not self-explanatory and are capable of very different
interpretations. In the time at my disposal, however, I must accept
them in all their haziness, abstain from anything more than an
interrogatory aside, and plunge almost at once into the issues of
substance, hoping that the discussion will not be prevented by any
shortage of working capital from taking off into sustained growth.
248
Cairncross- Capital Formation in the Take-off
capital-output ratio remains unchanged or that it moves gradually
to a lower level below which it cannot fall. This implies that the
rate of growth of capital and income must be equal to one another
and that if there is an acceleration in the one there must sooner or
later be a similar acceleration in the other. But the rate of growth
of capital is the savings-ratio divided by the capital-output ratio.
Hence the more rapid growth in income can only be sustained if
the savings-ratio rises proportionately, or if the capital-output ratio
falls proportionately, or if there is some combination of changes in
the two ratios that produces a similar result.
It is remarkably difficult to trace either process in the statistical
record of industrial countries. As far back as the figures go for the
United States and the United Kingdom, for example, the savings-
ratio appears to be remarkably constant, and there is also little
indication of any consistent decrease in the capital-output ratio.
But the record does not cover in any adequate way the period of
take-off and so does not relate to any sudden acceleration in .the
rate of economic growth. For Sweden there are indications of a
spurt in the savings-ratio (or rather, in the ratio of gross domestic
fixed capital formation to gross national product) from about 1900
onwards. But the curious feature of the Swedish figures is that,
although industrialization was already in full swing and production
rising rapidly long before 1900, gross investment up to the middle
'nineties fluctuated around 9 or 10 per cent of gross national product
so that net investment (including capital imports) remained as low
as S-6 per cent of net national income. 1 For Norway, the figures
indicate a progressive fall in the savings-ratio from 7 per cent around
1870 to 1-2 per cent at the turn of the century, followed by a rise
to 11 per cent in the 'thirties and 20 per cent in the post-war period.z
These figures do not appear very plausible but serve as a re-
minder of the difficulty in obtaining empirical verification to which
I have already referred. So far as they go, they imply that a rise
in the savings-ratio follows rather than precedes the take-off. This
is quite conceivable : the first steps in industrialization may not
put any great strain on the supply of capital if they are confined to
factory production in the less capital-intensive industries. The
British cotton textile industry became one of the largest export
industries by 1800 on the strength of a total investment of less
1 0. Johannsson, 'Economic Structure and Growth in Sweden, 1861-1953'
(paper presented to the Sixth European Conference of the International Association
for Research in Income and Wealth, 1959), pp. 23-4.
a J. Bjerke, 'Some Aspects of Long-term Economic Growth of Norway since
1864' (paper presented to the Sixth European Conference of the International
Association for Research in Income and Wealth, 1959), p. 64.
249
Tire Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
than £10 m. (roughly equivalent to the national income for a fort-
night). Even in the 1870's, when the industry employed half a
million workers, the capital employed was of the order of £100 m.
- about 1 per cent of the national reproducible capital and no
more than had been invested abroad in a single year (1872). Yet
I should be sceptical of any suggestion that either in Britain or in
Scandinavia, it was only manufacturing industry that needed capital
or that there was a marked lag in the savings-ratio behind industrial
development. It is true that the major capital requirements usually
come only with urbanization. 1 But there is plenty of evidence that,
even before urbanization, transport was making heavy demands on
capital in eighteenth-century Britain and in nineteenth-century
Scandinavia. There are also symptoms of a widening and deepening
of the channels along which capital flowed before industrialization
took hold in Britain. The rate of interest was falling, investment
intermediaries were growing and the capital market was better or-
ganized.2 There seems no reason to doubt that there was a
genuine rise in thrift.
It is usual to assume that, before take-off, the savings-ratio is
likely to be about 5 per cent. This assumption is usually supported
by doubtful figures for a variety of countries, reinforced by 'partially
subjective judgment' .3 But why 5 per cent rather than nil ? If
countries save 5 per cent of their income in static conditions, why
should it seem difficult for them to save a further 5 per cent when
there are genuine reasons for accumulation ?
Let us imagine a country in which population and the standard
of living, although fluctuating from one generation to another,
remain within narrow limits over the centuries. Parallel to the
Malthusian checks on population there would be a set of checks
on the growth of capital. War and fire would destroy, and fashion
1 In a recent paper on 'The Economics of Housing and Urban Development'
(Journal of the Royal Statistical Society, 1959) Mr. P. A. Stone shows that, of the
capital cost of constructing a town for housing 80,000 persons, only £11·2 m. out
of £85·3 m. would be required for factories (p. 466). This figure, however, is for
light industry only and omits the cost of plant and machinery.
2 See, for example, G. S. L. Tucker, Progress and Profits in British Economic
Thought, Cambridge, 1959, T. S. Ashton, Economic Fluctuations in England 1700-
1800, Oxford, 1959, and L. S. Pressnell, 'The Rate of Interest in the Eighteenth
Century' in Studies in the Industrial Revolution: Presented to T. S. Ashton (Ed.
L. S. Pressnell), London, 1960.
3 See, for example, Rostow, op. cit. pp. 43-5. The lowest figures, cited from
the Office of Intelligence [sic] Research of the Department of State appear to show
gross investment as low as 5 per cent of gross national product in Ceylon and
Afghanistan. On the other hand, Burma is credited with a ratio of net capital
formation to net domestic product of over 7 per cent in 1938 plus net capital
exports equal to 11·5 per cent of net domestic product. Mexico, which- unlike
Burma- is presumed to have taken-off, had a ratio of net capital formation to net
domestic product of only 7·2 per cent in 1950.
250
Cairncross- Capital Formation in the Take-off
would corrode, any fixed assets, and ceremony would draw on current
stocks, so that the need for thrift would never quite die out. The
horizon of human life has rarely been so circumscribed, or the
passion for self-perpetuation so feeble, that all inclination to build
for posterity vanished. There has always been, in pre-industrial
societies, some slack in the use of resources and no complete atrophy
of the will to accumulate.
If, therefore, we seek to explain the more rapid growth of capital
there is no need to present the change in savings habits in semi-
miraculous terms. It is reasonable to assume that it has its origin
in a new perception of the utility of capital accumulation and a new
willingness to accord it priority over other, non-productive, uses of
resources. The pre-conditions of a successful take-off imply a
transformation in both respects.
There may, for example, have been heavy expenditure by the
government and the richer classes for non-economic purposes -
notably defence, religion, monuments, and display. Most countries
that have staged a successful take-off have enjoyed an antecedent
period of domestic peace which prevented the periodic destruction
of physical assets and gave greater security to investment. The
comparative freedom of the nineteenth century from war must have
contributed to ease the financial problems of economic development,
particularly in the newer countries, permitted a record rate of
expansion of international trade, and encouraged a more rapid
change-over from agriculture to industry.
The development of a more secular temper can also, Calvinism
and the Quakers notwithstanding, speed up capital accumulation
either by diverting expenditure from religious endowments or, still
more, by removing inhibitions limiting economic endeavour. No
Scotsman, contrasting the atmosphere in which Adam Smith was
writing (can it have been before take-off ?) with the atmosphere of
a century earlier, can fail to be conscious that in this lay the biggest
transformation of all. Similarly, anyone who looks at the pyramids,
cathedrals, and pagodas that other civilizations have bequeathed,
can hardly regard the construction of railways, dams, and power
stations as imposing an unprecedented burden on a poor com-
munity. If capital assets are the limiting factor and yield the full
dividend that development brings, they can be had if they are badly
enough wanted - not necessarily without social upheaval and cer-
tainly not without tribulation.
Where there is a large outlay on ceremony and display, the
scope for greater thrift is correspondingly enlarged: a more puri-
tanical attitude can release resources for investment opportunities
251
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
that either did not previously exist or were only vaguely realized.
Once there is a more widespread awareness of the possibilities of
development, moreover, new resources are automatically created in
the form of human time and effort. In most countries, as is apparent
in war-time, the supply of labour is by no means completely inelastic.
It is not even indispensable that most of the fruits of the additional
effort should accrue to consumption. In agriculture, particularly
where there is scope for capital creation through land clearance and
reclamation, and where the occupier enjoys security of tenure, extra
effort on the part of the cultivator may result in a higher rate of
savings and investment which is rarely adequately reflected in the
official statistics. This form of capital creation may well be acceler-
ated when population is rising and when new techniques are being
introduced : a more rapid increase in income then becomes almost
automatically associated with an increase in the savings-ratio.
Similar and more familiar examples of self-finance on an in-
creasing scale are provided by the individual landlord who sets out
to improve his estate instead of spending all his rents and by the
entrepreneur who ploughs back his profits into an expanding business.
The importance of these tendencies, which have their origin in a
high expected rate of return, is discussed below in relation to the
supplementary role of the capital market in providing capital for
purposes that are beyond the scope of self-finance or for which self-
finance is insufficient.
We must also take account of the way in which the benefits of
a higher income are divided between different social groups. It is
possible that the main beneficiaries are more given to saving than
the rest of the community, although this is a proposition that is
usually supported by assertion rather than by evidence. The usual
assumption that wage-incomes form a diminishing fraction of total
income is, so far as I am aware, quite unsubstantiated. There are
other possible mechanisms that might operate so as to increase the
savings-coefficient. For example, an acceleration of growth is likely
to increase the revenue of the central government almost auto-
matically, through taxation, so that its power to save is simultaneously
improved. The fact that it may apply this revenue to education,
health services, and so on, rather than to the creation of physical
assets, does not detract from but illustrates this enhanced power
to meet capital requirements. Again, if capital is very unevenly
distributed - as is usually true in pre-industrial countries - the
immediate effect of higher investment may be to aggravate this
inequality, and this, too, may give rise to a higher rate of saving.
A third possible mechanism lies in the creation of business cor-
252
Cairncross- Capital Formation in the Take-off
porations which set aside some part of their revenue for expansion.
These corporations may save less than privately-owned businesses
of the same size ; but, since they draw on savings that would not
normally find their way into industry and commerce, they expand
the base on which profits are earned and reinvested, and so are
likely to raise the general level of savings.
V. CAPITAL-OUTPUT RATIOS
There is no need to lay all the stress, however, on the need for
a higher savings-ratio. The alternative possibility of a falling
capital-output ratio must also be considered.
We know very little about the magnitude of capital-output ratios
in pre-industrial societies. Estimates varying between 6 and 1·5
have been used, not always on the same basis. 1 We also do not know,
with any certainty, whether the capital-output ratio falls or rises or
remains constant after the take-off. I propose, therefore, to confine
myself to a few rather speculative observations.
First of all, it is natural to ask whether we are any less in the
dark about the incremental capital-output ratio -which seems to
many people the relevant one - than about the ratio of the stock
of capital to the flow of current output. Recent data, on the whole,
suggest a tendency for the incremental ratio to rise progressively.z
In the U.S.S.R. this tendency is not so much an observed fact as
an article of religion. Yet one may be pardoned for hesitating to
accept any such trend, to which the counterpart is likely to be a
consistently rising capital-output ratio, as a universal phenomenon.
It is, after all, still a widely accepted view that the capital-output
ratio tends to remain constant.
There is, of course, no necessary inconsistency between a rising
incremental ratio and a constant average ratio. The price of capital
goods tends to rise in relation to the price of consumption goods in
any economy where the building industry is the principal source
of capital goods. This turns the terms of trade, so to speak, against
saving and requires the use of a rising proportion of real resources
in order to maintain a constant ratio of capital to output. Whether
1 See, for example, J, Tinbergen, Design for Development, I.B.R.D., p. 74,
1957, and G. M. Meier and R. E. Baldwin, Economic Development, New York,
1957, p. 340, for estimates within this wide range.
a For example, the estimates of the Economic Commission for Latin America
suggest that investment rose faster than consumption in the 'fifties (Economic Survey
of Latin America, 1957, p. 83). For other countries the evidence for post-war
years points in the same direction.
253
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
this tendency would be very perceptible at an early stage of develop-
ment, with only a slow rate of improvement of productivity and
considerable imports of machinery of progressively better design,
is, however, very doubtful.
Second, we have to distinguish between the capital-output ratio
for the entire economy including agriculture and the ratio of capital
to output in the sectors in which current investment is likely to be
concentrated. When land is included in capital, and agricultural
TABLE 1
STRUCTURE OF NATIONAL WEALTH OF UNITED KINGDOM,
1800-1927
TABLE 3
U.S. AND CANADA: INDUSTRIAL DISTRIBUTION OF CAPITAL
(EXCLUDING HousiNG)
PAUL H. COOTNER
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
I. INTRODUCTION
THE purpose of this paper is to re-examine some of the theoretical
and empirical implications of existing ideas about the role of social
overhead capital in the process of economic growth. In the course
of this inquiry these ideas are found wanting in several important
respects, and as a result, I have formulated some new hypotheses
which are more general in scope and better able to explain the limited
data available.
Part II is both a summary and a reinterpretation of current theory.
In making this re-examination, I choose to emphasize the often
implicit assumption that entrepreneurs base all of their investment
planning upon neutral expectations -upon the belief that present
prices and demands will persist indefinitely. This is a crucial
assumption, and once we modify it to permit more realistic expecta-
tional hypotheses and less extreme attitudes toward risk, there is
much less reason for creating a peculiar role for social overhead
capital in economic development.
Part III confronts the current theory with some historical data
about the pattern of investment in social overhead capital. While
it is difficult to construct any conclusive test of the validity of a
historical hypothesis, I conclude that the weight of evidence denies
any special role for social overhead capital in economic development,
particularly if one thinks of development in terms of the growth of
the manufacturing sector.
In Part IV I propose an alternative model for analysing invest-
ment both in those industries which are generally considered to
comprise social overhead capital and in the 'directly-productive'
sectors as well. While I cannot think of any definitive tests that
would either prove or disprove my hypothesis, it is capable of
explaining a wider range of acts about investment in the nineteenth
261
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
and twentieth centuries than current theory about social overhead.
Finally, Part V concludes with a survey of some of the implications
of this study for the theory of the take-off.
1830 18~ 1850 1860 1870 1880 1890 1900 1910 1920 1930
V. THE IMPLICATIONS
Nothing in this paper contradicts the line of argument developed
by the path-breaking theorists who first emphasized the importance
1 The cycles peaking in the 1820's, 1840's, and early 1880's in both the U.S.
and Britain were considered to be periods of low profitability, and the latter two
periods were the subject of contemporary legislative investigation. Things were
bad in England in the 1860's, but the U.S. was going through the Civil War.
Much the same evidence applies to prices in the alternate cycles. Rostow, The
British Economy, and Cootner, op. cit.
280
Cootner - Social Overhead Capital and Economic Growth
of pecuniary external economies in inhibiting economic growth.
Instead, what it does is widen the concept of pecuniary external
economies to include all situations in which imperfect knowledge of the
future reduces the scale of investment and the responsiveness of the
economic process to the signals of a price system under private enter-
prise. I hope it is clear that the concept adds to, rather than reduces,
the scope of the arguments presented by the pioneers in this area.
On this specific point of relationship of social overhead capital
to these growth-inhibiting characteristics, the verdict of this paper
is more ambiguous. I have argued that social overhead capital is
the wrong concept. If it is defined in terms of sectors which we
normally call 'industries', I have argued that it is a clumsy concept.
Such a definition includes much investment outlay which does not
exhibit substantial economies of scale. If it is defined so as to
include only the sectors with economies of scale, it omits a large
amount of investment outlays which have almost identical charac-
teristics and effects. In either event, I find little evidence of great
force to suggest that there is a necessity for social overhead capital
to precede growth or for investment in social overhead capital to
be delayed until markets were assured.
If the conclusions of this paper hold true, they do suggest some
implications about the nature of the factors leading to self-sustaining
growth. The risk premiums that individual investors will demand
in undertaking investments with returns heavily weighted in the
future and largely dependent on the independent investment de-
cisions of others are larger than would be necessary if these decisions
were co-ordinated and the future assured. Even without centralized
planning, however, the results of private initiative would be much
closer to the social optimum if only each investor were secure in
the belief that all of these uncertain events would indeed come to
pass. It is a form of self-fulfilling prophecy : if each investor acts
on the assumption that all these projects will be undertaken, then
they will, in fact, be undertaken.
It is clear that one of the factors which would be most conducive
to this set of expectations is the fact of past growth itself. If,
initially, investors fail to act on new expansion projects until their
profitability is assured on the basis of current demand with a mini-
mum of expectations about the future, the reverberatory effects will
yield very large windfall gains. That is, as the classical equilibrium
works itself out, the economies which were formerly external will
be captured by the firms involved. Unless this example is set in
a culture singularly unreceptive to the spur of economic gain, it
should encourage some emulation.
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
Initially, the secondary effects should be slow to work themselves
out, and the slowness and uncertainty will undoubtedly inhibit
imitation. As the number and the resources of the entrepreneurial
class grows, it will not only increase the number of potential risk-
takers, but in line with the self-fulfilling aspects of the situation, it
will increase the speed with which the external economies are internal-
ized and it will reduce the risk of failure.
The burgeoning confidence and optimism produced by these
successes is a delicate flower, one that is especially sensitive to
drought. This may be a drought of profits due to the efforts of the
central government to restrict the profitability of the investments
with the scale economies, or due to the unsettling effects of revolu-
tion and disorder. It may be due to too much government or too
little. 1 But it would seem likely that, at some point, self-sustaining
growth will ensue.
In the kind of world I have portrayed, nothing succeeds like
success. Even aside from the success of a group of related invest-
ments, a strong growth trend reduces the risk of failure. Assume
an entrepreneur is interested in building a railroad into the frontier.
Assume further that the road is not justifiable on the basis of current
demand but on the other hand would be profitable if all other
economic units proceeded on the assumption that the railroad would
be built. In the absence of the railroad, less efficient transport
would still make it possible for some slower rate of growth to take
place. Now, the faster this rate of growth sans railroad, the more
willing will be the entrepreneur to start construction prior to the
development of sufficient current demand. In other words, the
faster this basic rate of growth, the less risky will be the enterprise
and the closer will private investment approximate the social opti-
mum. If a nation, therefore, is a low-cost supplier of Commodity A
which is subject to a secularly growing demand, it will be even more
encouraged to expand the production of B which is subject to external
economies than a country with similar resources but which does not
produce A. This is because if the risky investment in B fails, it
may be salvaged by the expansion due to the growth in A, while the
country which depends on B alone faces greater possibilities of loss.
In one sense, this reflects the more general proposition that diversi-
fication reduces variance of return. 2
I think that this sort of phenomenon may explain some of the
1 I would like to emphasize that even if government action should impede this
development, it may be desirable if a social choice decides that the slowness of the
private path cannot be tolerated and must be replaced by government action.
3 If, as we assumed, the diversification involves a probability distribution of
return with a variance l"qual to or less than that of the original investment.
z8z
Cootner - Social Overhead Capital and Economic Growth
differentials in the rate of economic growth in countries with similar
endowments of social overhead capital. Most of the major surges
of extensive investment in the nineteenth century were based on
the needs of the rapidly-industrializing countries for new sources
of food products and textile raw materials. In view of the major
land areas and the small resident populations it was fairly clear, to
those who took the long view, that the American prairies and the
Argentine pampas and the Southern U.S. Black Belt were going to
be needed as sources of future supplies. If it in fact turned out
that the 1850's were too early for railroads to Iowa or farm machinery
plants in the Mid-West, then one would just wait until the 1870's,
painful as that might be. Sooner or later, these resources were
going to be needed. The land was there and the railroad gave assur-
ance that the supplies could be furnished cheaply. Not only social
overhead, but manufacturing investment as well, must have bene-
fited from this outlook.x
In contrast, the more densely populated areas offered little of
this kind of insurance. It must have been hard to envision any
substantial exportable surplus of grain from India or Indonesia.
Even if expansion did take place in those areas it would be un-
likely to take place in the form of large-scale immigration with
its accompanying growth in local demand. In the same fashion
that one can predict today that Mrica is more likely to be a major
supplier of such future raw materials than is South-east Asia, it
must have been possible to make the same kind of forecast 100
years ago.
I think the problems of countries like Egypt and India can be
seen more clearly if we look at their nineteenth-century economic
history. The golden decade for each of them was the 1860's and
the reason was the same in both cases. The American Civil War
had halted the export of much of the South's cotton. With that
supply cut off, and only with that supply cut off, Egypt and India
prospered and received substantial investments designed to increase
their supplies. When the war ended, however, the South regained
its dominant position although it never became quite the exclusive
supplier it had been. For all three areas excessive supplies of this
basic material depressed the rate of expansion for many years to
come. Growth in these regions was aborted despite the investment
in Egypt and India in the 'sixties and the prosperous condition of
1 The assured future does not have to depend solely on agricultural supplies.
Large convenient supplies of iron ore and coal may assure a region of its eventual
development as an iron and steel centre in much the same way. Similarly, invest-
ment in market-oriented products will be encouraged by any good potential market,
no matter what the source of its income.
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
the pre-war South. The risk associated with investment in these
areas was higher than elsewhere.
It is at this point, finally, that I think the relationship of all this
to the take-off may appear. In my model of the world, industrial
and economic growth will tend to come to those areas which have
some major products to sell in world markets no matter what the
source of their comparative advantage. If this is true, it tends to
support Professor Rostow's theory about the importance of leading
sectors. Indeed, it seems almost inevitable that the 'take-off' should,
as a practical matter, be dated during one of the surges of investment
that we have described. On the other hand, it places social overhead
capital in a somewhat subsidiary role.
Nothing I have said should be taken to imply that nations cannot
stimulate their rate of growth by intelligent programmes of subsidy
and aid, particularly if entrepreneurs, unlike those in my model,
have erroneous views about the future. What it does imply is that
it would be a better strategy to alternate in encouraging different
sectors as world incentives change than to concentrate on a single-
minded attempt to improve social overhead capital or subsidize
manufacturing industry.
There is one other, perhaps empirically verifiable, implication of
the theory for comparative growth. In a culture with a low level of
risk-aversion 1 imperfect foresight should pose less of an obstacle
than in a society with a great distaste for risk. Traditional societies
would probably fall in the latter class, and societies that tolerated
change, in the former ;2 but if we could derive the supply curve of
risk-taking we could have an objective way of distinguishing the
characteristic that distinguishes receptiveness to growth.
I have found that the development of this paper has led me far
from where I thought I would end when I first began. Still, looking
back it is not too surprising to find that risk-aversion is an important
factor in dynamic economies. If, in addition, we can link risk to
certain other objective criteria such as economies of scale and periods
of gestation we may yet be able to assimilate this intractable concept
into a theory of economic behaviour.
1 'Risk-loving', however, would not be desirable.
• It may be that the Protestant Ethic, by preaching predestination, tended to
reduce anxiety about the future and hence reduce risk-aversion. However, the
establishment of such a relationship, if it exists, would require a broader, inter-
disciplinary, attack than I can bring to bear.
a84
Chapter 16
KENNETH BERRILL
Cambridge University
I. INTRODUCTORY
THERE is a strong temptation to begin any paper on Take-off
with a section debating the whole concept, but that temptation I
will resist. The discussion of 'Foreign Capital and Foreign Ex-
change in Take-off' is planned for the end of the ten-day conference
and by the time this is reached the preliminary ground of whether
take-off is an historically valid generalization will have been ploughed
over and harrowed down to a fine tilth. So, for the purposes of this
paper, I will plunge in with two assumptions: (i) that in the history
of most advanced economies we can identify two or three decades
in which some sectors strategic to further growth and industrializa-
tion grew with new pace and with new firmness; and (ii) that
these take-off periods are roughly those suggested in Rostow's
Economic Journal article of March 1956. Accepting the take-off
proposition uncritically for the moment, then, what can we say
about the part played by foreign capital in the process ?
Inevitably, the first comment to be made is on the weakness of
the statistics. It would be unrealistic to expect a country which
had only advanced as far as take-off to have good statistics but
they are better in some fields than in others. Foreign trade figures
are often relatively good and foreign capital figures usually bad. If
capital movements are calculated as a residual in the balance of
payments the range of error, especially in the invisibles, is depressing.
If calculated directly by types of asset the difficulties are almost as
great. Long-term debt fluctuates continuously in value and it is
hard to know just what the foreigner paid for it. Short-term debt
leaves little evidence behind, especially trade credits. There may
be useful figures on foreign holdings of government debt and public
utilities and very little on direct investment in companies. Even
the holdings of government and public utility debt by foreigners
may be very doubtful. For example, the U.S. take-off just before
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The Economics of Take-off into S-uStained Growth
the Civil War is usually said to have depended heavily on foreign
capital, especially on British investment in U.S. railways. Yet one
expert in the field has recently argued that the British were dis-
investing in U.S. rails 1840-60. 1 So the usual reservations about
how little we really know in quantitative terms about take-off must
certainly be made about foreign capital. But given that our general-
izations must be rather impressionistic what are the main comments
and questions which arise ?
289
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
market had been improving rapidly before 1790, and the modest
amount of capital needed for bulky projects could as well be raised
in London as anywhere.
Britain could and did take-off without foreign capital, indeed
she probably lent abroad to a small extent in the process. Nor was
she alone in this. France is said to have taken off 1830-60. She
was importing a certain amount of British and Belgium private
capital in the late 1830's for her first railway lines and for textile
plant, but by the 1850's before the end of take-off France was join-
ing Britain as a lender in world markets. Similarly Germany, whose
take-off dates are given as 1850-73, borrowed a little during her early
railway construction of the 1840's but that was before take-off and
also a little private direct investment by foreign entrepreneurs. But
in the 1850-73 period she provided all the capital accumulation
from her own funds and indeed by the end of the period Hamburg
was beginning to lend to overseas markets.
296
Berrill- Foreign Capital and Take-off
lated with take-off which is dated 1890-1914. 1 Mter 1860 the
government was encouraging capital import for railway building
with land grants and a guarantee of interest rates. Borrowing was
heavy whenever a world boom made the conditions propitious, e.g.
1868/72 and some 14,000 miles of track were opened 1860-80.
Borrowing then was heavy prior to take-off though it was heavier
still after 1890, particularly in the Paris market. By 1914 half the
national debt was foreign held, besides heavy foreign investment
in oil, coal, steel, etc.
JOO
REPORT ON THE PROCEEDINGS
D. C. HAGUE
FIRST SESSION
THE DISCUSSION OF THE PAPER
BY PROFESSOR ROSTOW
Mr. Berrill introduced the discussion by suggesting to participants
that they should concentrate on the main theme of Professor Rostow's
paper - the concept of leading sectors in take-off. This meant leaving
until another day aspects such as population, agriculture, etc., and leaving
until Professor Kuznets' paper the question whether take-off was a
distinct stage of growth.
Perhaps the first basic question in the analysis of take-off was whether
we should expect to find common patterns in the experience of different
countries. Had Professor Habakkuk been able to be present, he might
well have argued that with only a couple of dozen industrialized countries
to consider, each could, and should, be treated as a separate case study.
But whether one's objective was to explain the past or to help under-
developed countries in the future, the need for generalizations and models
was strong.
The second question was on the type of model to be employed. Must
we restrict ourselves to variables which are statistically measurable and
empirically testable? Our data for the past were so weak that, even in fields
such as population change, we could not demonstrate exactly what hap-
pened. On social structure and motivation, statistics could never be good.
The third question was the units in which the growth process and
take-off could best be studied. Should it be in terms of national aggre-
gates and averages, or in some other way? Mr. Berrill felt strongly that
in an early period of industrialization such as take-off, national averages
meant very little. The statistics for sectors like small-scale agriculture
were bound to be poor, yet they played a most important part in any
national average. But more important than any statistical problems was
the fact that the economy at this stage was not integrated as a national
unit, and did not grow as one. Growth had to be studied industry by
industry, region by region, and in terms of the links between them, not
by looking at changes in average national statistics.
This led to the fourth and main question for discussion. Was the
JOI
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
concept of leading sectors the most fruitful way of studying take-off in
these disaggregated terms ? It meant substantiating the belief that the
key process was growth in small but strategic parts of the economy which
continually pulled the whole system into sustained expansion. Perhaps
the important problems involved in the leading sector concept were :
(1) What makes a leading sector spring into fast growth- is it markets.
technical change, transport improvements ? (2) How do small leading
sectors pull up the rest of the economy ? Does it require some combina-
tion of their continued expansion, their weight, and the readiness to
react of the rest of the economy? (3) How does growth become built-in?
Does one need a series of leading sectors, one after the other, to enable
sufficient momentum to be generated? (4) What is the role of the de-
celeration of a sector in Professor Rostow's model? Does the slowing
down depend on markets, technology, or entrepreneurs? This again
made it necessary to look at particular sectors. We also needed to know
how far growth became built-in at a certain stage and whether there
really was such a thing as apart from the limitations of the market.
Dr. Singer said he would try to keep to the question of leading sectors,
although other aspects of Professor Rostow's paper should also be ex-
amined, e.g. his views on capital formation and the role of agriculture.
When one was considering the timing of a take-off and its location, a
problem arose from the fact that Professor Rostow tried to do two things
at once. First, he tried to show the 'coming in' of the leading sector
at a particular point of time. This was something which one could date
precisely within a relatively narrow time-span of, say, ten or fifteen years.
Second, however, Professor Rostow wanted to show how the impact of
the leading sector spread, and the spreading of such an impact was hard
to pin down in time. One needed to take a longer period, and even then
there were all kinds of difficulties. An economy which had a leading
sector but was unable to generalize and continue progress automatically
obtained a windfall, as, for example, Iraq had done with oil, but did not
achieve self-sustaining growth. On the other hand, an economy might
possess all the necessary conditions required for progress to become
general but be waiting fruitlessly for a leading sector to appear. The
theory had to apply to this too.
Perhaps the solution was to try to find a criterion which showed one
the capacity of an economy for self-sustained progress, and to make this
criterion one similar to the leading sector - one which could be dated
fairly precisely. He thought that this particular criterion emerged when
the creation of new investment opportunities exceeded the actual rate
of investment and, therefore, the inducement to invest was growing
over time.
The problem was that we were dealing with two points of time. One
was where a leading sector in Rostow's sense emerged; the other was
where one had this 'surplus' of investment opportunities. A major
difficulty was that the two moments of time need not coincide.
Dr. Singer also raised the question of actual planning. He thought
302
Hague- Sum'I1Ulry Record of the Debate
that Professor Rostow was arguing against the kind of programming
approach used by the World Bank missions and by the governments of
underdeveloped countries. Here one had a team of experts or civil
servants, each man thinking his own field more important than the others,
and the programme emerged from the clash of ideas between the mem-
bers of the team or the politicians concerned. With his concept of leading
sectors, Professor Rostow seemed to be trying to get away from this
kind of idea by concentrating on an individual sector, but Dr. Singer
became confused when, on page 7 of his paper, Professor Rostow said
that growth must be viewed 'in terms of clusters of sectors, linked ...
by the Leontief chain '. We seemed therefore to be back to the usual
approach and to the general line of argument underlying Professor
Nurkse's balanced economic development.
If one took the case of Ethiopia, this was a traditional society and the
most likely leading sector was cattle export. If such a leading sector were
to develop, one could either call it foreign trade or cattle rearing. What
was necessary to make such a leading sector develop ? First, it would
be necessary to eliminate disease among cattle, which in turn would
require a new attitude among farmers. It would also be necessary to do
a lot to improve the transport of cattle. Refrigeration would be necessary,
and this would need power. One would also have to break the vicious
circle of cattle grazing and soil erosion. If it proved possible to solve
all these problems, their solution would have changed so many attitudes
that cattle-rearing would probably no longer be the key thing, and
industries producing substitutes for imports might well have become
important. So, both on the grounds of what Professor Rostow said .in
his paper and on operational grounds, Professor Singer doubted the value
of the concept of leading sectors.
Professor Gerschenkron thought that we must be careful to make a
distinction between the study of growth as it had happened and growth
as it should happen. The discussion was liable to run into confusion
unless this were done. Because growth had happened in a particular
way in the past, it did not follow either that it would happen in the same
way in the future, or that it should do.
Professor Cairncross doubted whether one could treat a country which
was operating at the frontiers of technological development in the same
way as a country that could borrow technology from others. If a country
was applying its own technological discoveries, then its progress would
be uneven because technological change took place in a random way.
On the other hand, if a country in a traditional state suddenly awakened
to the possibility of rapid development, why should there be only one
leading sector affected by this desire for growth ? There might well be
development over a broad range of the economy.
Professor Hoffmann thought it was both possible and necessary to split
up the continuous process of economic life into phases and stages. His-
torians tried to do this and he felt that economists should try to do it
too. This was particularly important if one was discussing the beginning
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
of industrialization. Max Weber had spoken of the 'ideal type' in trying
to find ways of discovering similar characteristics from all periods. There
was also his idea of a break in the historical process. He was not saying
that Max Weber need necessarily be accepted as right, but, unless we
had some criteria for characterizing various phases in a process, we should
be able to make no comparisons at all.
Professor Boudeville tried to reconcile the divergent points of view in
what he called a neo-Rostowian way.
First, the study of growth could not be purely a study of aggregates ;
one had to consider many separate sectors. The model used also had to
be different at different stages of growth. Before the take-off period (e.g.
in Ethiopia), a Leontief analysis would be useless. In Brazil it could be
usefully combined with Professor Rostow's theory.
Second, such a combination was possible through the backward and
lateral effects (the 'Polarization' effects of Fran~ois Perroux) which could
be described by sectors.
Thirdly, these links between activity and investment were most con-
spicuous in recent economic development. They were slower and less
apparent in the pioneering economies of the nineteenth century.
Finally, provided one admitted that economic systems which differed
in structure had different processes of growth, Professor Rostow's stages
of development seemed highly instructive.
Professor Marczewski referred to his statistical analysis of the growth
of France since 1788. So far forty-two industries had been covered,
accounting for about 68 per cent of industrial products. Graphs had
been compiled for each industry showing the average annual rate of
growth in each decade. The question was how to obtain a synthetic
rate of growth for the whole economy. A weighted chain average had
been calculated with weights equal to the average value added for each
industry for two successive decades. Later, however, this had been
compared with an unweighted average. It was found that in most cases
the weighted average was less than the unweighted, but that there was a
variable relation between the two from period to period. It had, there-
fore, proved possible to build up a typology with three variables - the
unweighted average, the weighted average, and the ratio of the two.
One then got six kinds of growth. When the unweighted average was
much greater than the weighted average one found that growth was
rapid in some small industries, presumably the newer ones. This he
called extensive growth. Where the weighted average, the unweighted
average, and the ratio between the two were growing, he spoke of in-
tensive growth. Where the weighted average and the unweighted aver-
age were both growing, but the ratio between the two was falling, growth
could be called intensive and extensive, with both the old and the new
industries developing. Other possibilities were intensive partial growth and
an ageing of the industrial structure. Finally, one would tend to get a
slowing down of the rate of growth through the decline of old industries,
despite the creation of new ones. This he.called delayed extensive growth.
304
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
Having applied this analysis to the last 150 years in France, he had
found that it was possible to distinguish a number of cycles. These
always started with extensive growth, proceeding through intensive growth
to an ageing of the industrial structure and the ultimate appearance of
new extensive growth. In view of these results, he wondered whether
one could speak of take-off or of leading sectors. It seemed as though
the leading sectors might always comprise new industries which were
growing rapidly, but were too small to drag the rest of the economy
along with them. Or would the leading sector be a large industry with
a moderate rate of growth but an enormous weight in the economy ?
He knew that we needed to look at links between industries, but, given
our present historical data, it was hard to talk of leading sectors at all
without being to some extent arbitrary.
Professor Hoffmann suggested we should eliminate the idea of a lead-
ing sector because in most countries which were industrializing there
was no complex structure of horizontal and vertical relations. In a very
primitive economy, if a new factory were built this would lead to no
further developments because this complex horizontal and vertical struc-
ture was missing. We should only speak of a leading sector when this
structure was nearly complete.
Professor Landes asked Professor Marczewski whether he had year
to year figures or only figures for particular points of time.
Professor Marczewski replied that there were continuous ten-yearly
figures from 1895 and that from 1788 to 1825 there were figures for
1781-90, 1803-12 and 1825-34.
Professor Landes said that by using ten-yearly intervals. the French
analysis might be missing changes in the rate of growth when take-off
took place.
Professor Marczewski insisted that his analysis had only eliminated
short-term fluctuations, including the classical cycle.
Professor Gerschenkron said that if studying in Italy one had not pro-
ceeded on a year-to-year basis but had used ten-yearly figures, this would
have eliminated almost all the big changes in the rate of growth. He
did not know whether the position in France was the same, but it was
clear that in some countries these gaps in the statistics could be very
important indeed.
Professor Rostow said that so far as the dating of take-off was con-
cerned he would reply to Dr. Singer like this. In order to date take-off
one must not only establish the existence of a leading sector, and the
fact that the economy would respond to what he called its spreading
effects, one also wanted evidence that when the original leading sectors
suffered from deceleration, the economy would generate new ones. This
was how he put Dr. Singer's point about the need to generate new invest-
ment opportunities. This was necessary in order to distinguish take-off
from abortive surges. Beyond that, there were only two practical prob-
lems. One was the question of these abortive spurts and was easily dealt
with. The other was what he called the problem of the preceding decade.
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Probably in Germany, Russia, and France one could put back the
dates of take-off ten years before those he had given, but this was something
which we should come to in the various country papers. On Dr. Singer's
questions about the operational significance of his theory for Ethiopia,
he would just like to say that Ethiopia appeared to be a rather less promising
version of Australia, Uruguay, and Argentina. Evolution there had taken
place through the meat industry. If Ethiopia did succeed in growing,
then probably the development of cattle raising would bring with it other
industries, especially those producing import substitutes.
Professor Hoffmann and he were now committed to saying that stage
analysis was useful. Obviously his own criteria were not the only pos-
sible ones. Aside from Hoffmann's studies, there was the work done
by Colin Clark on the effects of growth on the structure of the labour
force ; the recent paper by Professor Kuznets had gone far beyond
Clark's, and both were very important. He would say what he wanted
to say about Professor Marczewski's comments when the Round Table
discussed France, but he would comment here that the suggestion about
using weighted and unweighted averages might have a family relation to
the part of his own paper where he said that sustained growth required
something like a repetition of the take-off process. He wondered whether
the idea that economic history represented a series of leading sectors,
one taking over where the other left off, fitted the Marczewski figures.
Professor Hoffmann had said that it was no use trying to stimulate
a take-off if the horizontal and vertical links in society were not there.
This observation related to what he himself called the 'spreading effects'
which represented a response by society to the interconnexions which
made up economic life.
Basically, the need during the Round Table was to unify growth
analysis in the sense of showing how functional and sectoral phenomena
related to each other and to growth as a whole. He had been turning
towards the idea of take-off as a kind of investment multiplier. Professor
Solow had suggested that the idea of a kind of accelerator might be better.
The point was that somehow or other the time was reached where im-
pulses had wider-ranging effects.
Mr. Berrill's defence of sectoral versus aggregate analysis was based
on the fact that we had sectoral information but that aggregate informa-
tion was not available. We also knew that the process of industrialization
began in narrow sectors and regions. Professor Rostow suggested that
rather like the price theorists in the nineteenth century we had two
theories. The nineteenth-century price theories had dealt with the general
price level through the quantity equation, but with individual prices
through supply and demand. Similarly, in the field of growth, one
definition ran in terms of the required increase in output per head. It
was aggregative and looked at investment, production, and the capital-
output ratio. The other definition was in terms of the progressive spread-
ing and application of new techniques, and was, in essence, sectoral.
His answer to Mr. Berrill was that this conference would make a major
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contribution if it could make progress towards unifying and relating these
two definitions of growth.
Professor Delivanis noted that he agreed with Professor Rostow on
the impossibility of getting a successful take-off without satisfactory
foreign exchange reserves, ample receipts from abroad, and substantial
investment in external economies. He thought that perhaps Professor
Rostow was moving back a little to the ideas of List who had set out the
stages of growth without being able to identify them statistically. As
for take-off, it obviously did exist, but one could only see whether it had
happened ex post. There were also big difficulties because of political,
social, and economic differences. Professor Delivanis wondered whether
one could only have one take-off or whether it were possible to have
two, as had happened in the case of Russia.
Professor Landes asked whether Professor Rostow could clear up the
distinction between take-off and more traditional notions; for example,
was take-off equivalent to an industrial revolution ? Were Professor
Rostow's 'backward linkages' the equivalent of Marshallian-derived
demand and were his forward linkages the equivalent of bottlenecks and
similar incentives to investment? Was there any difference between
Professor Rostow's periodic surges of innovation and the ideas of Pro-
fessor Schumpeter ? Finally, was there any very significant difference
between Professor Rostow's five stages of development and the traditional
tripartite classification of an economy before industrialization, during
industrialization, and afterwards ?
Professor Cairncross thought it important to ask why some impulses
had more far-ranging effects than others. If an impulse was a techno-
logical one, the answer must be in technological terms rather than in
terms of particular industries or sectors. But technological change was
itself the expression of more general influences, such as the growth of
knowledge, the spread of empiricism, and the level of education. Was
it right to lay emphasis on the industrial changes in which these influences
manifested themselves rather than on the influences themselves ?
As for the use of sectoral rather than aggregate analysis, he saw
no opposition between the two. If one wanted to see the overflow of
new impulses outside their original breeding ground, the only possible
way of studying this overflow was to go outside the original sector.
Similarly, one sector must affect the whole economy.
Turning to the problem of abortive changes, Professor Cairncross
pointed out that there were instrument makers during the Middle Ages
yet no industrial revolution. This was an abortive movement in tech-
nology which was not cumulative because there was no systematic theory
lying behind engineering and no succession of advances. What was
required was something which created such a succession of advances.
Miss Deane went on from what Professor Cairncross had said to ask
what it was that made a leading sector lead. If one took British cotton,
was it a leading sector in the U.K. before the end of the eighteenth cen-
tury ? The answer was probably no, in the strict sense, and yet in one
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
respect it was yes. Cotton's growth had led to a 'demonstration effect'
by showing the possibilities of this kind of technical change. It provided
an obvious example to the wool and linen industries and in that sense
was much more a leader than, say, the iron industry. The direct response
which cotton had evoked in the woollen and linen industries meant that
it had a much greater effect in carrying the economy forward than mere
input-output analysis might suggest.
Professor Neumark wondered whether Professor Rostow wanted to
type the past or whether he was trying to derive a general theory of
development from historical observation. He thought that the aim was
the second. For example, on page 20 of his paper, Professor Rostow
said that there was 'no single set of linkages that logic or historical ex-
perience decrees as universal'. He also said that 'any serious analysis
of growth cannot be confined to its economic element'. Mere descrip-
tion of take-off had a purely historical significance and did not provide
anything which added to our understanding of the present-day under-
developed areas. Were conditions of take-off necessary and sufficient
for subsequent economic growth, or were they only necessary but not
sufficient ?
It seemed to him that economic evolution in the nineteenth century
was very different from development today, particularly in the technical
and socio-political framework in which it took place. One could imagine
a nineteenth-century situation where government intervention encouraged
development but another one where it even stopped take-off. Govern-
ments nowadays were much more likely to encourage growth, and could
probably achieve take-off by their own actions. He therefore wondered
whether Professor Rostow's ideas could be applied to present-day under-
developed areas.
Dr. Singer was worried that Professor Rostow defended his use of
sectors by saying that' spreading capacity' was also sectoral. This seemed
to go back on a statement on page 20 of his paper where Professor Rostow
said that 'the propensities appear more important than the yields'. Both
Professors Rostow and Kuznets leaned backwards to say that economic
progress was not automatic. In a sense this was true, as the abortive
examples showed. It was also true that progress was not automatic in
the sense that it did not drop like manna from heaven, but needed insti-
tutions to encourage it. Yet, in a sense, it was automatic. We knew that
if we wanted to bake bread, a modern oven would bake it. Similarly,
in a Western economy technical progress would take place and such a
society would regularly spend 2 or 3 per cent of its national income on
research and development. So, although one could not predict where
the developments would take place, one could act on the confident
assumption that such developments would occur. The law of large
numbers guaranteed a certain rate of technical progress. It was, therefore,
a bar to true understanding if one talked of the creation of new production
functions as something external. That also was a sectoral phenomenon.
On the question of abortive changes, Professor Tawney had asked
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why the men who could make mechanical chess players in the Middle
Ages had not been able to create an industrial revolution. The general
economic answer was that they had not grasped the links between me-
chanical ingenuity and economic growth. It followed that the capacity
for spreading the effects of given inventions was an important general
propensity.
Mr. Berrill said he wanted to make it clear that he was not suggesting
that one should ignore the whole economy. All he was saying was that,
if one looked at very broad sectors, one might miss important things.
Some parts of the economy did not mature while the leading sectors did.
The next point was the way in which the leading sectors pulled the
rest of the economy up. It was a question of the weight of the leading
sector. Some were so strong that they would pull the economy with
them fairly easily. Others were weaker so that the pull must be bigger
and for a longer period in order to have the required administration effect.
Mr. Berrill did not believe that growth depended on modern science
and gave two examples. The technical problems overcome in the silk
industry were very great and the rate of growth achieved was high.
Nevertheless, even though this development took place over quite a
long period, there were never any spreading effects. A second point was
that advances in the cotton and iron industries were a result of empirical
discoveries and not 'the application of science'. Modern science only
began to have any effects in the mid-nineteenth century and he did not
think that the absence of modern science was an important factor holding
back economic growth.
Mr. Mathur said that he tended to look at historical studies of take-off
to discover how the past experience of advanced countries could help the
underdeveloped countries at present. For planning purposes, the idea
of the take-off itself entailed having some notion of what one was aiming
at. For instance, one aim in India was to double the standard of living
in twenty-seven years. But a wider target could be aimed at and he,
among other economists who had attended a seminar in economic de-
velopment organized in India by the International Economic Association
five years ago, had begun to think along the lines of achieving a steady
growth equilibrium with the most superior technology. Whether one
analysed the golden-age type of steady growth described by Mrs. Robinson,
or took the dynamic input-output approach of Leontief, one came to the
same conclusion. The requirement was to have physical capital per man
in form and amount appropriate to the rate of growth of population and
the rate of shift of the production function. The level and rate of rise
of real wages could be deduced from these.
The theory of long-term planning was concerned with indicating paths
for attaining the capital requirements of the steady-growth state at full
employment, starting from an initial situation in which equipment per
man was deficient. A study of the development of other countries was
helpful in suggesting various possibilities, for instance the type of goods
which were to be emphasized at various stages of development. Thus
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
heavy investment could be a leading sector in the early phases, when a
corresponding increase in food production would be required. Some
sectors would grow at faster rates than others, though balanced growth
was the ultimate objective. To analyse the growth path and the linking
of processes for it, he suggested that one should use a Neumann type of
process analysis rather than the Leontief type, as the choice of techniques,
which was the basis of the problem, was ruled out in the latter.
Professor Gerschenkron thought we should be clear on the purpose for
which we used the idea of a leading sector. If one were talking about
innovation, Schumpeter had shown that the important things were the
individual firm and entrepreneur. For Schumpeter, these would repre-
sent the leading sector. For others, the leading sector would be some
part of the textile industry or of the cotton industry, for example, cotton
spinning. Yet others would be interested in a rather bigger aggregate,
which would lead them to an idea like the ' development block' of Pro-
fessor Dahmen, who held that, unless such blocks existed and were
properly adjusted within themselves, growth could not take place.
What we required was a clarification of why we needed the concept
of a leading sector. We should try to discover from the empirical material
which was the most appropriate sector of the economy. Purely dogmatic
assertions about what that sector was, or about sectoral versus aggregate
problems, were not sufficient.
Professor Kuznets said that, as he saw it, there were two ways in which
one could define leading sectors ; first, one could judge them by their
effect; second, one could judge them by their cause. He often got the
impression that a leading sector was being defined as such because it was
caused by some exogenous factor. The stimuli producing such a leading
sector might be technological change, the discovery of new resources,
changes in demand in other countries, and the like. The only justification
for this approach was that it simplified the problem. But if one had many
industries the 'leading in' process was an effect and not a cause. For
example, if agricultural development created an expanding market and
technological advance, the opportunity would be created for building up,
say, a textile industry. Was the latter then a leading sector or was this
induced growth ? Must a leading sector be autonomous or could it be
induced from elsewhere ?
Big problems arose because of the variety of effects. One could say
that because a sector was growing rapidly it was a leading sector, but an
unweighted percentage rate of growth might be of limited interest because
its weight might be very small. Therefore, secondly, one might try using
the direct weight based on the contribution of the industry. If, say,
20 per cent of all growth was caused by a particular industry over a period,
this gave one an aggregative weight for the importance of that industry.
Third, one might use input-output analysis to show that the sector was
not very important in itself, but led to growth in other sectors. Fourth,
one might take the influence of the demonstration effect, in Miss Deane's
sense. The leading sector was acting as a sort of school for entrepreneurs,
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Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
showing them how to advance. Finally, one might take the effects of the
leading sector on the political structure, education, etc., and these might
be great and lasting even if the industry had small weight in the economy.
One could therefore have a variety of definitions of a leading sector
and, when one came to apply the concept, one would find that the times
at which an industry represented a leading sector in different countries
were quite different. One would also get a different time according to
the definition one used. What was necessary was to specify these differ-
ences, because each specific definition indicated a particular and valuable
link between the leading sector and the aggregate of the economy.
Professor Robinson suggested that there were two quite distinct ranges
of interest in the questions of take-off. First of all, there were the peda-
gogic interests of economic historians who might feel that they could
interpret history better in terms of the idea of take-off. Second, there
were those, including himself, who wanted the idea to be of operational
and prognostic interest. Could we learn from early development in order
to help the modern underdeveloped areas ?
He would therefore like to ask Professor Rostow whether one could
take the U.K., U.S.A., France, and Germany and learn from their ex-
perience. Or was their situation at the take-off period so different from
that in modern underdeveloped areas that one could not do this ? He
saw two difficulties. On the one hand, some countries were technological
leaders while others were the followers. The leaders were obviously
using their own technological development, which limited the available
range of possible technologies. They had to look to current technological
development and research for achieving sustained growth. To discover
how such countries could sustain progress one had to ask what the contri-
bution of research might be. On the other hand, if one looked at the
modern underdeveloped countries there was a valuable stock of 'unused'
techniques which they could progressively apply. Was growth easier or
more difficult for the second type of country than the first ?
His second question was whether one should distinguish between
unassisted and assisted take-off. Could one argue from the unassisted
take-off of the now-advanced countries to the assisted take-off of modern
underdeveloped areas, or was the problem fundamentally different ?
Finally, he wondered what was the unit of take-off. Was it the country?
Even with the sectoral approach we tended to talk of take-off in the U.K.,
France, and other countries; but did the U.K. take-off as a whole? He
felt that there had really been regional development in Lancashire, York-
shire, and the North of England more generally, which had gradually
spread to the South East.
Professor Rostow said he would like to link what Professor Delivanis
and what Professor Landes had said. He did not think of his idea of
stages as a theory of growth in the normal sense, but there was a com-
ponent in it which gave continuity, i.e. a disaggregated, dynamic theory
of production. He had tried to set up a framework where one could
relax the conditions of classical economics. In order to do so, one had
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
to be able to bring in, on the side of demand, changes in population,
income, and tastes; on the side of supply, changes in techniques, the
supply of natural resources, and in the quality of entrepreneurship. When
one relaxed the framework of the Marshallian short period and went
beyond once-over changes in long-period variables, one reached the idea,
for any moment of time, of optimum sectoral capacity, of which the first
derivative was an optimum pattern of investment. There were several
links between the framework and the concept of stages, which arose
from a study of the empirical facts. The first of these was the fact of
deceleration to which he had been brought by the early work of Professor
Kuznets. The second was backward and lateral linkages which led to a
vision of how growth had proceeded. There were also forward linkages,
forming a component of the engine which drove aggregate growth forward
at a relatively steady rate.
The notion of take-off brought one back to the old-fashioned view
of the industrial revolution, as Professor Landes had suggested, but that
view had been a literary concept and he felt one could go beyond it. In
reply to Professor Landes' other questions, Professor Rostow said that
bottlenecks might induce forward linkages, but forward linkage took other
forms as well, e.g. the provision of technology applicable to other indus-
tries, the cutting of cost to other industries, etc.' These linkages helped
to explain how the economy proceeded to grow when the rate of growth
of any single cluster of sectors (grouped around a leading sector) fell off.
So far as Schumpeter was concerned, he had first studied the work of
Schumpeter in the context of the Kondratieff; but Schumpeter's was
not a growth but a cyclical model. The cycle was the instrument of
growth in Schumpeter's model, but the technological drama of economic
history as it related to growth, did not come out clearly.
In reply to Professor Cairncross, Professor Rostow said that he had
dealt in a paper for the 1960 Stockholm Conference in economic history
with the dynamics of traditional societies. He had explained that the
basic change was from a situation where one had sporadic inventions and
innovations to a situation where one had a flow of them. In a traditional
society one often got all the preconditions for take-off, except for a more
or less regular flow into the economy of new production functions. Behind
this gap in the traditional society was a lack of the Newtonian outlook.
He was not suggesting that practical men ever read Newton, but, never-
theless, Newton's ideas did spread, giving a widespread realization that
the physical world was understandable in terms of a few fixed laws, and,
therefore, capable of systematic manipulation. One also, of course,
needed a commercial setting in which inventions became profitable and
were actually absorbed into the capital stock. One should not under-
estimate the impact of the scientific attitude on practical gadgeteers.
To Professor Neumark he said that he thought it was not possible to
produce a theory of growth. There were many motivations lying behind
what happened in an economy and unfortunately we had no general
theory of man's motivation. He therefore looked at growth as a bio-
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Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
logical process and wanted to arrange patterns of growth so that the
similarities and differences could be set out. He thought there was a
regular sequence of problems to be solved in the growth process, but a
wide range of solutions. He thought that societies in the traditional stage
which sought to move forward, had similar problems to solve, and would
therefore like to be specific about what these problems were and the kind
of solutions to them that history could provide.
As for how far the underdeveloped areas were like the economies of
the nineteenth century, he thought that the biggest difference was that
the backlog of technological possibilities now available was bigger, but
this was not a new phenomenon. The U.S.A. had had a bigger backlog
than the U.K., Japan than the U.S.A., and so on. It was merely the
scale of the phenomenon that was bigger. But this worked both ways.
The development of public health saved many lives so that the under-
developed areas were able to apply one branch of the backlog and thereby
produced big increases in population - bigger than in the nineteenth
century. This seemed to be the major difference. There was therefore
the need to spread improved agricultural productivity to cope with this
problem more rapidly than in the past.
As for assisted versus unassisted take-off, this depended on the degree
of intervention. The government had played an important role in the
development of North American railroads; and the Land Grant colleges
had helped to spread techniques. The state played a progressively more
important role in France, Germany, Japan, and Russia. The techniques
of planning were different in India, but not fundamentally so.
On the question of what use the analysis was, Professor Rostow said
that others would have to judge. He thought that, first, it might help to
defeat Myrdal, Singer, and all those who held up as the dominating image
of the contemporary world a situation where the richer countries were
becoming progressively richer relatively to the poor ones. The funda-
mental distinction was not between the rich and the poor, but between
stagnant and regularly growing economies. He also wanted to break the
strangle-hold of analysis in terms of relative national income figures,
which led to frustration. If one compared what was happening inter-
nationally with what was happening within a society, one had a false
analogy. It was not a question of how one's income compared with that
of someone else, but of whether one was growing richer. The immediate
task was not income equalization, it was growth. Put this way, the goal
of take-off was an obtainable one in a man's lifetime, and a proper focus
for individual and national energies. Second, he hoped that his analysis
might pose a range of problems that were almost universal in a particular
stage of history. Beyond this, it might help one to look at other solutions
to a problem, although each problem was unique. Perhaps the final
virtue was a negative one. It showed that every case had to be unique.
Each country had to make its own model and find its own values. It was
a matter of posing questions - of identifying a universal sequence of
problems - rather than giving answers.
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
On page 10 he had shown how far progress was not automatic. It
was unlikely that there would be periods of stagnation which lasted very
long, but one had to remember that there had been considerable periods
of stagnation in the past, for example, the 1930's.
To Professor Kuznets and his question whether leading sectors were
cause or effect. Professor Rostow said that this distinction related to
whether the leading sector was induced from the side of supply or demand.
One could say that in some cases new production functions were the
proximate causes of the emergence of a leading sector, while in other
cases new leading sectors developed as a result of the income elasticity of
demand for new products, with rising levels of real income. But, so far
as he had a general notion, he thought the two types of case tended to
merge ; that is, new technology itself was mainly induced.
For example, the development of textile machinery in the eighteenth
century was mainly induced by the evidently high price and income
elasticity of demand for cotton textiles in Britain ; the steam engine was
translated into a railway to permit cheaper movements of cotton and
wheat. In our own time, the motor-car was the joint product of techno-
logical development and the income elasticity of demand.
He would underline his definition of a leading sector by saying that
it was required not only to have high momentum, but also to have scale
effects and to spread these over a large field, both directly via inputs
and indirectly. This was not a definition which could be easily and
directly linked with formal statistics (notably the spreading effects), but
it embraced the first three of Professor Kuznets' specifications. As for
how one went about dealing with the statistical question, this was morr
difficult in theory than in practice. He doubted whether it was hard to
say within about ten years when the leading sectors began to be important.
For example, one could certainly say that the cotton industry in the U.K.
became important between 1780 and 1790. Railways presented a prob-
lem, but not too big a one. This brought him back to the problem of
'the preceding decade'. He had definite reasons for his own sets of
dates, but these were debatable. But, if one could narrow down the
problem of timing to within a decade, that was surely enough.
As for Professor Robinson's question about regional development as
distinct from development in a whole country, he would say that the
proper criterion was the range of the spreading effects. Development
was clearly regional in Northern as distinct from Southern Italy, and
perhaps the same thing was true of Quebec as compared with Canada
as a whole, and of much of the South of the United States. With Britain,
he thought it was less true. London, for example, was involved in the
Industrial Revolution in the North and Midlands; although there were
certainly some agricultural counties where development was slow and the
spreading effects had been diluted.
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
SECOND SESSION
THE DISCUSSION OF THE PAPER
BY PROFESSOR KUZNETS
Professor Cairncross said that in all forms of growth there were elements
of continuity and elements of discontinuity. Even in the biological sense,
the discontinuous elements in growth were consistent with a fundamental
continuity, and this was true also of economic growth. The idea of
take-off seemed to him to over-dramatize the element of discontinuity.
It was also necessary to identify and reconcile the cumulative and self-
limiting factors at work in producing growth. In the take-off theory, it
was assumed that after an initial spurt the cumulative expansion levelled
off. This might be a fact, but it needed explanation. Again, in consider-
ing the usefulness of the idea of take-off, it was necessary to decide whether
the process was constant over time or itself developed. For many reasons
it seemed unlikely that the course of events today would be similar to
that followed a century or two ago.
Professor Kuznets and Professor Gerschenkron had both raised in
their papers the difficulty of distinguishing conditions of growth from
pre-conditions, and the period of take-off from the period of self-sustained
growth. Was it really possible to draw a sharp distinction on the basis
of statistical indicators ? One such index to which Professor Rostow
attached importance was the rate of saving. But was there any conclusive
evidence that this rate increased from 5 to 10 per cent of national income
during some limited period that one could describe as 'take-off' ?
Next, Professor Cairn cross asked how one could be sure that take-off
was a once-for-all and irreversible process. \Vas this something to be
thought of in international terms or in terms of the situation in individual
countries ? In individual countries there were false starts associated with
local circumstances. The factors at work included some that originated
abroad and others that were essentially national in scope, and the outcome
of this combination was bound to vary from country to country.
A stage approach to economic development was essentially descriptive
and could not be more than preliminary to a causal analysis. A succession
of events might first have to be studied from the point of view of sequence,
but it was necessary to move on later to causes. If an aircraft 'took off'
it needed a motor, and what one wanted to know were the motor forces
in economic growth.
For these reasons it was necessary to look at a long stretch of time in
the course of which attitudes, institutions, and values changed. These
changes were part of the process of growth and might not be fully reflected
in the statistics, while the new countries were still taking root. For
example, it was hard to believe that the take-off in Scotland, in any mean-
ingful sense, took place after Adam Smith. The sequence of events in
Scotland went back to 1707 when union with England opened up a new
market and brought in new ideas. This started first agricultural and then
31 5
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
industrial development. Yet the statistics would show that the develop-
ment in Scotland corresponding to that in England between 1750 and
1790 took place in the nineteenth century. If take-off was really something
irreversible, then in order to study it, one would have to look at a world-
wide process which had begun in the eighteenth century and was still
at work.
Professor Cipolla agreed with the view expressed by Professor Kuznets.
He said that an economic historian who had to consider cases of economic
growth and take-off before the seventeenth century could not rely on
percentages of growth, since there were too few statistics. Trying to
distinguish between 'ancient' and 'modern' growth, one was therefore
driven back to 'qualitative' criteria. He thought that the most relevant
of these criteria was that of the sources of energy used. All development
before the Industrial Revolution had used biological energy through the
exploitation of plants, animals, and men. The energy of wind and
waterfalls was used only in a complementary way. It was the Industrial
Revolution which began the large-scale exploitation of non-biological
energy, and all the great development of production connected with the
Industrial Revolution was based on the discovery and exploitation of this
new Eldorado of energy sources.
Professor Marczewski was interested in the reierence to biological and
other sources of energy. For example, various early periods of growth
in French metallurgy had ended because of shortages of wood. It was
only at the beginning of the nineteenth century that the switch to coal
had restarted growth in this industry.
Professor James said he wanted to give some general reflections. He
wondered whether it was true that the concept of take-off was merely a
question of definition, but the definition was banal. If, with Professor
Kuznets, one claimed that take-off was a period with very different charac-
teristics, one then had a sharp break in history and difficulties began.
Professor Cairncross. could not say when take-off had occurred in Scotland
and he thought that this was true of other countries, for example Russia,
where one might say that there had been several take-offs in a single
period. One would then surely have to abandon the idea. Nor was he
sure whether one could use the concept for a general study of growth in
order to make a clear distinction between an early and completely different
period and what had happened later.
Professor Hoffmann referred to page 42 of Professor Kuznets' paper
and asked what were the necessary conditions for growth in the modern
sense. Did they include a break in the social frame-work ? He also
thought any general theory would be useless if it tried to work with the
same assumptions for all different periods.
Dr. Singer wondered how far the causes of take-off were the same in
all countries. Professor Cairncross had said that one must look to some-
thing like the transfer of techniques between nations and now we were
reminded of the importance of the move from biological to fossil energy.
The problem of technical progress had been left unsolved in the first
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session. In particular there was the question of whether countries could
leave out particular stages of growth. He understood Professor Rostow
to believe that the difference between the modern and the older under-
developed societies was only a difference of degree, but there was surely
a cumulative effect in that the existing stock of knowledge was growing
all the time. There was also the question of how to transfer knowledge
between countries. Indeed, the growth of the stock of knowledge was
self-limiting in the sense that the latest inventions were becoming less
and less suitable for underdeveloped areas. The stock became bigger,
but it also became less useful to the poorer countries.
When one looked at the question of the movement of capital between
countries, it became even harder to look back at history. He was not
sure whether it was now easier or more difficult for countries to achieve
take-off. Professor Rostow's doubts about planning were very important
for the underdeveloped countries, but it might well be that they would
learn sooner or later how to induce take-off artificially. Yet it also fol-
lowed that if one studied the historical experience of take-off one would
learn very little about how to transmit knowledge from one country to
another or how to predict what would happen in the future.
Professor Landes thought Professor Rostow was right in saying that
there was once a time when people thought that something had taken
place that deserved to be called the Industrial Revolution. Later his-
torians had attempted to modify this image and to emphasize the pro-
gressive and gradual nature of the process of industrial change. Professor
Clapham had been the outstanding exponent of this point of view. Now
Professor James had asked whether we could talk of a take-off. The
term, vivid as it was, implied a single operation, and perhaps for that
reason obscured the truth. Nevertheless, there was what one could call
an industrial revolution, and as Professor Cipolla had pointed out, this
was essentially a technical phenomenon, a 'package' of technical changes
comprising the discovery of new forms of energy, the substitution of
machines for human skills, and new methods of transportation, especially
in the metallurgical industries. There was also a concentration of pro-
duction in factories, a mode of production that established itself as a
system only in the late eighteenth century. This pattern of development
was easy for the scholar to handle in terms of nineteenth-century economic
history, but was perhaps less applicable to the experience of modern
underdeveloped areas.
One question, therefore, was whether one could define and demarcate
the 'package' of processes that liberated the nineteenth-century economies
from the old ceiling of productivity. Here a number of difficulties arose.
The statistics on hand did not always permit one to trace the timing of
these changes; the evidence left much to be desired. Again, the process
of development seemed to have become more complicated as time passed.
And yet, when one asked why a take-off should occur, the biggest mystery
was Britain itself. Britain had made the first break-through, but little
was known about why she had done so. Once this first break-through
31 7
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
was made, of course, the other countries faced a transformed world. They
found a situation which challenged them, and emulation became a ques-
tion of economic and political survival. From that point on, it was not
so much why as how these countries achieved their take-offs that interested
the historian.
On generalizations, Professor Landes said that there was no neat
pattern from one country to another. There were many countries where
take-off had been so slow as to belie our terminology. France, for example,
had experienced a slow and hesitant take-off ; yet she had taken off.
Perhaps revolution was a bad word, with its connotation of rapidity, but
in economic history it did denote a definite process.
Professor Boudeville asked three questions about empirical evidence
on the take-off. Professor Kuznets, on pages 29 and 30 of his paper, had
spoken in a stimulating way about differential rates of growth, secondary
effects, and input-output relations. What method could be used to
measure and give appropriate weight to these rates of growth ; first, in
considering direct growth ; second, in considering direct and indirect
growth (Leontief's backward effect); third, in considering direct, indirect
and polarization effects (Rostow's lateral and forward effects).
To be more precise, if one first considered direct growth only, the
answer seemed to be an easy one ; each rate had to be weighted propor-
tionally to the value of the production (v) of then sectors
vlo v2o v ..o
V V ... V V=Vlo+ V2o+ ... V,.o
Second, if one considered direct and indirect effects, was the answer
to weight each rate of growth proportionally to the column sums of an
inverted matrix (A 0 ) of the economy ? Should the weights be
Vlo Alo V2o Azo V,.o A,.o
Vo Ao' Vo Ao•··· Vo Ao Ao=Alo+A2o+ ... A,.o
Third, in considering direct, indirect, and polarization effects could
one use the vectorial presentation of polarization, linking laterally one
unit of activity in one sector with fractions of activity in other sectors
the creation of which were the consequence of the existence of the first ?
One could call : ;P; ... ;Pm the polarization coefficients around sector i.
He had to evaluate them in a study on Minas Gerais. One thus had for
sector i a polarization effect, V 1°A 1o ;(P; ...... ;Pm) relating to the direct
growth of the new sectors j ... m. But these sectors also had indirect
effects. Thus one obtained,
vlo Ala X (tP; A/ ...... iPm Ami)
with a feedback on V 1°A 1° which was modified because of the emergence
of the new sectors j ... m, and became V 1 1A 1 1 • The polarization effect
of sector i would thus be easy to trace historically backward by difference.
But as Professor Kuznets had said, this required us to specify from the
start which was the propulsive sector.
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On page 29, Professor Kuznets also stated that neither the high rate
of growth of a particular sector nor its place in the interconnexion of
input-output relations is in itself evidence of leadership. Did Professor
Kuznets think that the empirical triangular form of input-output matrices
and their different hierarchy in underdeveloped countries (South Amer-
ica) and in mass consumption countries (Western Europe) pointed to
different possibilities in impact and leadership ? Moreover, would a
difference in technical structure account for the slow take-off of the
18th and 19th centuries polarizing Western economies and the rapid
growth of the twentieth-century underdeveloped and polarized countries ?
Professor Leibenstein felt that the discussion was concerned with not
one thing but several. First, there was Professor Rostow's scheme of
classification. Second, the scheme of classification suggested that growth
was brought in but did not say what the process of growth was. Finally.
there were remarks about what happened in history. He wondered which
of these three things we were concerned with ; or was it something else ?
Professor Solow said that everyone knew that there had been a time
before the factory system and the modern economy. Now we were in
the period after these had been developed. The process of the passage
of time was possibly more irreversible than anything else, and the im-
portant thing to realize was that when we looked back at a process that
had already occurred we were saying nothing analytical about it. When
we said that technology spread, we had to remember that a great deal of
capital formation was needed to allow this to happen and this point had
not been discussed. He thought we should remember that there were
some data about capital formation and that we could trace the process
in a rough way. If Professor Rostow had a theory about it, he was not
sure what that theory was.
But if one had a theory this should be tested and the most fruitful
way of doing so was to ask what events it excluded. He used to think
that the Rostow theory excluded the possibility of the move from a pre-
industrial to an industrial society taking place along a smooth trend.
What the paper by Miss Deane and Professor Habakkuk showed was
precisely that such a smooth trend had occurred in the U.K. He won-
dered whether the notion of take-off in this aggregate sense needed to be
excluded, though Professor Rostow would claim that there was more to
it and that leading sectors needed to be brought in. However, differential
rates of growth were inevitable and different sectors were bound to grow
at different rates. So we were now back to the point that the only thing
that the theory might say was that one could not have a smooth trend
with no breaks in it and all sectors growing equally fast. This did not
sound like a powerful theory.
Professor Solow was worried that a major requirement of sustained
growth was that old leading sectors should die and new leading sectors
take their place. To say that this replacement occurred was merely to
say that growth was happening.
Professor Cipolla thought the reason why theorists were so unhappy
31 9
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
was that it was so difficult to acquire the necessary facts that analysis was
almost impossible.
Professor Rostow noted that on page 41 of his paper Professor Kuznets
had said : 'All that is claimed here is that aggregative data for a number
of countries do not support Professor Rostow's distinction and character-
ization of the take-off stage. On the other hand, the fact that the
evidence is confined to aggregative data does not limit their bearing.
Economic growth is an aggregative process ; sectoral changes are inter-
related with aggregative changes, and can be properly weighted only
after they have been incorporated into the aggregative framework and
the absence of required aggregative changes severely limits the likelihood
of the implicit strategic sectoral changes.' Again, on page 28 of his
paper, Professor Kuznets said, 'But the reviewing of the empirical evi-
dence on this point holds little interest if I am correct in assuming that
the major distinctive characteristic of the take-off is a marked rise in
the rate of growth of per capita and hence of total income'.
Since Professor Kuznets took this view of the matter he could see
why Professor Kuznets had made his four attacks on the Rostow theory.
In, fact, the concept of take-off was not merely aggregative. The three
important concepts were first of all the 'coming in' effects of the leading
sector itself; second, the direct and indirect spreading effects of the
leading sector, and third, the rise in net investment. When he had first
discussed the rise of net investment from 5 to 10 per cent of national
income, he had said that pure 'Arthur Lewis' behaviour was not to be
expected because of differences in the rate of population increase, in the
1>cale of social overhead requirements, etc. He therefore did not expect
to find rigid behaviour of precisely this kind. What did the evidence
show? We had no evidence for Japan or Russia, and he would like to
see evidence on Britain. The figures for Germany from the 1850's
to the 1870's suggested a rise, but there was little or no aggregate
information which one could test for the pre-take-off and post-take-off
periods.
Nevertheless he expected a rise in investment for several reasons.
First, there was a high rate of ploughing back of profits and a high rate
of saving in the leading sector and those rapidly expanding sectors tied
to it. Second, there was a shift from a rural to an urban population
which meant greater possibilities for raising money through taxation and
high saving rates in the non-industrial urban middle class. Third, the
role of the government was likely to be important in this transitional
period and this also was likely to lead to a rise in savings.
What Professor Kuznets did not go into was sectoral analysis, and
it was impossible to make sense of either take-off or the pre-conditions
without it. The process of pre-conditioning varied from case to case and
the structure and history of the particular society determined how long
this process would last. It took a century from the Opium Wars to the
first five-year plans in China - a painful century of pre-conditioning.
Japan, on the other hand, had begun to take-off in the 1880's after a
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relatively short, intensive pre-conditioning from 1868. One therefore
had to consider the historical heritage.
He would like to restate the functional tasks of the period of pre-
conditions. The first task was to build up social overhead capital (in-
cluding investment in education) and the amount required in social
overhead capital for turning a traditional into an industrial society would
vary. The second task was necessary shifting of resources above minimum
consumption from agriculture and the countryside into the towns. This
implied a need to increase agricultural production and to reorganize land
tenure and to divert rent flows into the more modern sector of the economy.
Finally, there was the need to generate the capacity to earn foreign
exchange. In a sense all these were types of capital formation and a
traditional society needed to expand all of them before it could indus-
trialize. In short, industrialization required prior expansion and struc-
tural change in non-industrial sectors. He would like to repeat that
take-off took place when the industrial sector became substantial and the
'spreading effects' important. This was not a mysterious or abstruse
process.
There was the problem of the preceding decade, where there was
some acceleration in industrial activity. This had happened in Russia
in the 1880's and in Germany in the 1840's. He found no difficulty over
this problem. In concrete cases, the application of the take-off criteria
yielded quite identifiable historical time intervals. As for the end of
take-off, he would date this as ocurring when new leading sectors had to
appear because the initial group of leading sectors had slowed down and
was incapable of carrying forward growth.
Professor Rostow said that he owed a lot to Professor Kuznets, but
one could not have a satisfactory analysis of growth unless one could
link aggregated and disaggregated analyses. The whole mechanism could
not be studied unless one went into sectoral analysis.
He also agreed with Professor Cipolla that the move to non-biological
energy was very important. His resistance to accepting this interpreta-
tion was that the new forms of energy could not be exploited without
widespread changes in technique, transcending energy. The use of coal
needed the steam engine and so on. He still thought that energy per
worker was a very important factor.
As for the relevance of his theory to modern conditions, he thought
that certain specific economic activities were typical of particular stages
of growth and that if a surge in activity took place when these activities
had been introduced take-off would occur. He thought it important
also to remember that some countries had not yet moved far forward
into the stage of pre-conditions, e.g. Central Africa. Nor was he sure
that take-off in India would be sustained, because of difficulties in agri-
cultural and foreign exchange flows. Nevertheless, he would guess that
India was in the take-off stage because there was a wide-spreading private
enterprise boom in the import-replacing sectors. He would, therefore,
concentrate in any assessment of take-off on sectoral patterns and did
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
not think one would then have much doubt on which were the periods
of acceleration. There was nothing mystical about his terms and the
important thing was to know what they meant and not merely make an
emotional judgment in favour of his terminology rather than that of
Professor Kuznets.
Mr. Berrill said he would like to take the concluding comments on
page 40 ff. of Professor Kuznets' paper and see how Professor Kuznets
differed from Professor Rostow. In doing this he would concentrate on
take-off. He was not surprised that there was no statistical support for
the idea of a sharp change in the rate of growth of national product.
As for the lack of a clear distinction between the pre-conditions and the
take-off, he did not expect such a clear-cut distinction in economic history.
He would remind participants that there was no clear distinction for a
human being between childhood and adolescence, or between adolescence
and adult life. Nevertheless if one went further backward and further
forward, there was a difference in quality between childhood, adolescence,
and adult life. Mr. Berrill agreed with the third point made by Professor
Kuznets because he thought that Professor Rostow did neglect the
importance of the degree of backwardness.
The crucial question was therefore whether in a short time one could
move to a situation where a rate of growth which was self-sustaining
could be achieved.
Mr. Mathur commented on page 34 of Professor Kuznets' paper
where for the take-off periods of various countries the capital-output
ratio figures ranging from 2·5 to 4 were mentioned to support the argu-
ment that there was no evidence for a 'net capital-output ratio of 3·5 to
1 '. He said that the figures produced by Professor Kuznets himself
were not significantly different from the one critized in Professor Rostow's
theory, and that it seemed that Professor Kuznets had taken the idea
of capital-output ratio of 3·5 too literally. He thought Professor Rostow
referred to this figure merely to give a general idea, an interpretation
particularly evident when Professor Rostow considered cases where the
capital-output ratio was undefinable in a strict sense. This was so, for
instance, when there was a long lag between the start of an investment
project and the beginning of production from it. He further pointed
out that Professor Kuznets had at another place mentioned the lack of
suitable data. The presentation of supporting data could not always
prove causal connexions nor could its absence be deemed to point against
a suggested hypothesis.
Mr. Mathur said investment in heavy industry and in social over-
heads could be stepped up, as in Japan, without inflationary consequences,
as long as supporting investment in agriculture was taking place. Balance
was required between the two sectors, and it did not seem that, in India
at least, enough investment in agriculture had taken place. If the pro-
portion between industrial and agricultural investment fell, agricultural
productivity would rapidly increase and provide food for the large demands
of the industrial sector. Finance was not a bottleneck for this investment
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Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
from a planning point of view, for deficit financing could be employed
provided an appropriate proportion of the funds were used for rapid
increase in agricultural output. It was the machinery of supplying these
funds to the peasants at low interest rates which was lacking so that
borrowing in India was largely from money-lenders, at interest rates
from 20 to 75 per cent per annum.
Thirdly, the increase in agricultural productivity could be obtained
without use of highly capital-intensive or scarce resource-using techniques,
as was demonstrated by Japan. During the last thirty years too much
attention had been paid by government agricultural stations in India to
mechanization but too little had been done about improving and popular-
izing agricultural techniques of low capital intensity.
Professor Kuznets, replying to Mr. Mathur, said he thought it would
be better if economists and economic historians produced ideas and
concepts which could be tested. He would expect that empirical dis-
putes could be settled from available data. If no data were available,
then there was no basis for any statement at all. Professor Rostow had
claimed that take-off had empirical characteristics and represented a
generalization based on a variety of cases. This implied that there was
both quantitative and qualitative evidence which could be checked by
others. Yet some statements, for example, those indicating when a
sector became large enough to be a leading sector, could not be tested
empirically at all. Everything depended on the performance of the
sector and could only be defined after the event. No testable evidence
had been put forward in Professor Rostow's paper and Professor Kuznets
therefore suggested that the idea of a leading sector remained an empty
box. As he had said in the first session, the aspects of leadership were
so many that in timing the emergence of a leading sector one would
have to say in respect of what particular magnitude the leading sector
was being judged. How big was it ? How fast was it growing ? How
could we judge it in all its various aspects ?
Professor Kuznets agreed that it was entrancing to create a system
in which there was interplay between well-known components in aggre-
gative economics, but its value depended on having a cutting edge, which
took us back to what it contained and relieved us of what it excluded.
Professor Rostow's scheme suggested an invariance which was attractive
when the developed part of the world confronted a large number of other
countries which wanted to develop. It was attractive, but did it mean
anything when we knew that the analysis of pre-conditions took us back
to the year 2000 B.c. ? Again, how did one know when one had sufficient
social capital to take-off? Did one know whether one had a unitary
market ? All he thought one could say was that there was some degree
of invariance among countries for some or all of these characteristics
suggested by Professor Rostow, but this hardly justified a hypothesis.
Professor Kuznets said he knew what modern economic growth was.
All he doubted was the existence of a sufficiently marked watershed
between the pre-conditions and the period after take-off. He would
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The Ec01Wmics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
have liked Professor Rostow to start with the concept of modern economic
growth and to think of the various countries which were growing as
members of a family experiencing various industrial revolutions and with
important links. The pattern of development took place at two levels.
First of all there was an international back-log of inventions and inno-
vations which had already been made and which were available to those
who wanted to use them. Second, within a nation one had the beginning
of modern economic growth taking place through a sequence of stages
which depended on the time at which the nation began to grow and its
historical background. While Professor Rostow's image was attractive,
there was at present too little foundation for us to assume that there was
a phase called take-off which could have enough empirical invariance
to be useful as a preliminary method of classification. The danger was
that, having set the classification, one would go around looking for em-
pirical evidence to prove that it was correct, or even worse to assume
that it was. Professor Rostow said he would agree with Professor Kuznets
on one point -when the latter said that he had not in his paper given
the empirical evidence which he had accumulated over the years for
supposing that particular sectors were leading sectors. He had merely
presented generalizations which resulted from the empirical evidence and
would therefore accept Professor Kuznets' reservation on this point. But
from his knowledge he believed the difficulty of testing lay in following
through the changes in related sectors caused by the emergence of a
leading sector. The direct effects were relatively easy to test, but it was
very difficult to trace the lateral effects. Take-off had been presented
as a preliminary hypothesis to be tested by his colleagues. All he would
claim was that there was a need to face up to the sectoral aspects of the
process as well as to aggregate growth.
THIRD SESSION
THE DISCUSSION OF THE PAPER
BY PROFESSOR NORTH
Professor Leibenstein said this was a straightforward paper which did
two things. First, it told the story of the expansion of U.S. manufactur-
ing in 1850-60. Second, it explained how this expansion took place.
He would accept the facts which Professor North gave and concentrate
mainly on the more or less classical scheme of analysis. Professor North
started with the notion that there was an observable expansion of invest-
ment in various industries and of consumer demand. The result was
an observable market expansion. Professor North now brought in from
outside new production functions via inventions, etc. All these factors
started the process of expansion which was continued via market expan-
sion through a growth of the industrial sector, in this case cotton textiles.
Professor North then concentrated on forward and backward linkages.
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The basic process proceeded from the initial expansion in industry to
forward linkages and backward linkages, so that one got continued ex-
pansion in a wider field. Simultaneously, however, one needed an in-
crease in income per head which was the result of specialization and of
the localization of industrial activity. Higher income per head meant
that more labour-saving machinery was introduced.
On page 48 of his paper, Professor North had said that the 'sustained
development and spread of manufactures ultimately required that the
region's factor endowments should improve'. This was a crucial state-
ment, and he was not sure whether inventions and discoveries were
necessary merely to improve the expansion of the market. He wondered
whether improved factor endowments were necessary to keep the process
going - he was especially concerned with the quality of the work force
and of entrepreneurship. The basic question was which aspects of the
process were really essential. Did improvements come from outside the
system, or were they the results of increased income? To put it another
way, he wondered whether inventions and discoveries were necessary or
whether there would be expansion without them.
Professor BulhiJes pointed out that on page 51 of his paper Professor
North said that in the early period many cotton mills made their own
machinery. This assumed that fairly large profits were earned from
cotton textiles which could be put into other fields. He thought that
the paper would have been more convincing on this point if figures for
profit had been included to show how these fitted expansion. He thought
the inducement to install new machinery was not sufficient. What firms
really needed were the funds with which to do it.
Mr. Berrill made three points. First, Professor North implied that
the leading sector was not important until 1860, though he would have
thought it was of some importance twenty years before that. Second,
Mr. Berrill pointed to the old notion that while the home market was
important, one nevertheless needed foreign trade. In this case one was
trying to marry a regional home market with export to a specific agri·
cultural region. Finally, on labour he was never quite sure whether we
were being told that labour was cheap or dear in the United States. We
were often told that it was cheap, but often also that it was dear enough
to force mechanization. Professor North seemed to take the cheap
labour line, but perhaps he would like to comment on the views of
Professor Williamson who argued the other way.
Dr. Fischer found similarities between development in the U.S.A.
and in Continental Europe. The timing was the same and also some of the
processes. For example, there was the movement from domestic to
factory industry between 1830 and 1860 which had happened in the
U.S.A., France, and Germany. There was also the fact that the pressure
of English goods after 1815 had delayed development in Europe as well
as in America. Similarly in the U.S.A. the North-East was the key
centre and there was similar localization in Europe. It was also true
that the weight of tradition in these established centres was very strong.
325
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
This was very important in Europe where home industry developed into
the factory system in these manufacturing centres and then spread growth
to the surrounding agricultural regions. A growing market was also
important, as were falling transport costs and the quality of labour, but
he would say that this was important for agriculture as well as for industry
He would put particular emphasis on the quality of labour and enterprise
because without changing social attitudes economic growth could not be
self-sustaining. This was something that would be very important for
the underdeveloped areas today.
Professor Gerschenkron said that on cheap and expensive labour he
would say that in the U.S.A. a lot had depended on the expectations of
entrepreneurs. Labour-saving devices were only introduced where
businessmen felt sure that they could obtain cheap labour. In Boston,
tailoring had been mechanized only when cheap Irish labour was avail-
able. Entrepreneurs felt that it was only worth having to invest heavily
if there would afterwards be a new scale of activity ; this implied that a
great deal of labour would be necessary. As for which factors were
necessary and which were not, he would say that this concept was not
readily usable in historical analysis. One could only know what was
and what was not necessary if one included the factors in question in
model and then one could only interpret them hypothetically in the
spirit of that model. In addition, depending on one's definition of growth,
one tended to produce a tautology when one said that growth meritably
required various factors.
Professor Cairncross wanted to be clear what Professor Gerschenkron
was saying about mechanization in Boston. Brinley Thomas had argued
that Irish immigrants had been necessary to mechanization in Boston in
the middle of the nineteenth century. Yet one might suppose that
mechanization would be slowed down rather than accelerated by a plenti-
ful supply of cheap labour.
Professor Gerschenkron replied that he had argued that machinery would
not be introduced unless extra and cheap labour was available because a
constant output would not be sufficient to make mechanization worthwhile.
Professor Solow wondered whether what Professor Gerschenkron was
talking about was not the necessity of having an elastic supply of labour
rather than a supply of cheap labour.
Professor Kuznets suggested that if entrepreneurs expected the market
to expand they would introduce machinery even if labour was not short.
This was a crucial factor.
Professor Cairncross thought an important question was why the South
did not take off. Labour had been cheap in the South and yet, precisely
for that reason, no labour-saving devices had been installed. It was
true that the South was a long way from the main markets, but the
markets were there and, with the cheap labour which the South possessed,
one would have expected some competitive advantage.
Professor Marczewski said he did not know the historical sequence of
events in New England, but he wondered whether the answer to Professor
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Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
Gerschenkron was that cheap labour allowed industrialists to make big
profits and that this money was ploughed back into the industry. With
sufficient elasticity in the market, firms doing this would take the oppor-
tunity to install the most modern machinery available. This seemed a
more logical explanation of the willingness to mechanize in Boston.
Professor Robinson said that Keynes had argued that the high degree
of mechanization in the U.S.A. in the period under discussion occurred
because demand was running ahead of supply. It was not a function of
labour shortage so much as of the degree of control over inflation. He
wondered whether there was any truth in Professor Gerschenkron's con-
tention. Elastic supply of labour surely meant that one was less likely
to get mechanization.
Professor Rostow said that, as a point of fact, New England had reached
a heavy degree of capitalization in the textile industry because labour
was scarce and expensive. The original mills were as capital-intensive
as those in England because the labour force was made up of the respect-
able daughters of New Hampshire farmers, and it was therefore necessary
to make conditions acceptable to them. When the Irish arrived, the
industry was committed to a certain degree of mechanization and the
coming of a large amount of cheap labour was not sufficient to make them
move in the reverse direction. The arrival of the Irish merely meant
that the labour supply was more elastic. The origin of the capital intensity
was the initial relative labour shortage.
Professor Rostow said he was sometimes inclined to regard the take-off
of the North-East of the U.S.A. as a separate phenomenon. It was not
until the railway surge as far as Minneapolis in the 1850's that it was
possible to integrate the North-East and the Middle West. At an earlier
stage, most investment was in cotton acreage in the South while the North
and the Middle West were putting a great deal of capital into land, especi-
ally in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, etc. Professor Rostow said he would put
more weight than Professor North did on the development of the railways.
Professor North spoke of their effects in widening the market, but he
would also stress their backward linkages. In the 1850's there was a big
increase in the output of pig iron, rails, etc., and the railways were im-
portant in causing this. Similarly, the rise in agriculture and industry
led to a development of shipping to export their produce, as well as stimu-
lating the production of farm machinery. He would, therefore, stress
more than Professor North did the industrial development centred
around the growth of textiles and later around railways, but he accepted,
of course, the importance of the widening of the market.
On the question of how the leading sector clusters were related to
the expansion of manufactures in general, Professor Rostow said that at
first new leading sectors would not dominate a weighted index for total
manufacturing output, but a wide range of manufacturing industry would
benefit from the derived growth effects of increasing population and
income per head. The linking of markets and the lateral effects of the
leading sectors could be seen in the figures of urbanization. In the 1850's
327
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
1500 miles of railways a year were being built, and this led to rapid ex-
pansion in iron, coal, and engineering.
Dr. Singer suggested that prima facie one would expect that the wage
rate would be irrelevant to mechanization because labour entered into
both the manufacture of machinery and its use. If the machinery was
made and used in the same country, it was a question of relative costs.
If, however, the machinery was imported, then the question would be
whether businessmen expected wages to rise relatively to income per
head in the future. On immigration, Dr. Singer said that there had been
no mention of the idea that heavy immigration meant that the U.S.
economy was saved the cost of a great deal of overhead investment in
bringing up and training labour until it was old enough to work. Because
of this saving in overhead capital, a greater amount of direct capital
formation might have been possible.
Professor Landes said that the question of cheap versus dear labour
was relevant to our understanding not only of American economic growth
but also of the relation of the enclosure movement to the British industrial
revolution. Our views on this had been greatly modified by the work
of people like Professor Chambers, who showed that the enclosure had
on balance absorbed rather than released manpower. The labour for
Britain's industrial revolution came from a rapid growth of population
in the countryside - more than agriculture could absorb - and ·from
Ireland. Yet it seemed that the important point so far as this discussion
was concerned was the relative factor costs at the time when the intro-
duction of machinery took place. This was more important than what
happened later when these new methods spread. The British example
showed that in the middle of the eighteenth century labour was getting
dearer, and that the textile industries were finding it hard to get more
manpower because the putting-out system was becoming over-extended
geographically. There was a series of legal efforts to improve the position
of the manufacturer by imposing penalties on workers who did not stick
to their tasks and deliver honest goods in the time promised. These
penalties grew heavier and heavier, and their very iteration and aggrava-
tion were proof that they were ineffectual.
Professor Bentzel found it hard to agree that the existence of cheap
labour was a positive factor in mechanization. He would rather explain
the situation by saying that technical development made capital cheaper,
and mechanization took place despite the cheapness of labour. Professor
North had already said that there was a great deal of innovation and it
was surely this which made capital cheaper relatively to labour and led
to the process of mechanization.
Professor Robinson was surprised how little Professor North had said
about population growth. There was a puzzle here. He wondered whether
population growth helped or hindered industrialization. If one considered
the provision of social overhead capital, what struck him was the external
economies of scale. These were partly the result of changes in technology
because of invention, but to a considerable extent they resulted from the
338
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
growth of the market. He wanted to ask which of these external economies
were a result of an increase in income per head and which the result of
the growth of the U.S. economy as a whole. Was it possible for the
experts to separate off these two factors ? His mind was brought back
to the posthumously published article by Rothbarth, showing that there
had been higher productivity in the U.S.A. than in the U.K. before the
American economy became as big as the British.
Professor Boudeville wanted to emphasize a point brought to light by
Professor North on pages 57-8 of his paper, dealing with the supply of
labour.
In a former paper, Professor North had emphasized the different
process of growth in Europe and in the U.S.A. Did he think there was
another fundamental difference between past U.S. growth and current
Latin American industrialization, due to the relative roles of immigration
and population growth ?
To be more precise, what had been the effect of the wage differential
between new immigrants and the existing domestic population? Was
the lower income received by U.S. immigrants a crucial fact for develop-
ment ? In Brazil today, one had to pay very high salaries to attract
foreign technicians. Did Professor North think growth was economically
and sociologically easier for the U.S.A. which could get immigrants from
countries where wages were low and labour reasonably well trained ?
Professor Kuznets said that in the early nineteenth century America
had had one of the highest birth rates in the world, but had also experi-
enced one of the earliest declines, the birth rate falling by 30 to 35 per
cent by 1840. The main reason was that people married later, and it
was important to note that this had taken place at a time when there was
little industrialization or urbanization, which one might have expected
to need in order to get what was now regarded as the modern response to
such things. The rates of immigration relatively to the resident popula-
tion were highest in the 1840's and 1850's. Professor Kuznets also
pointed out that there had been a huge amount of internal migration,
presumably the result of better opportunities in other parts of the country
and of the widening use of natural resources in the U.S.A. In these
circumstances and with the important proviso that the American labour
force was intelligent and able, population growth was definitely a major
factor in American development. Professor Gallman had shown that
capital formation between 1840 and 1860, mainly from domestic savings,
was also quite high. Gross domestic capital formation was probably
16 per cent of national income, which was almost certainly as high as in
the U.K. and perhaps higher than anywhere else. There was, therefore,
everything to gain from a population growth which shifted labour to new
parts of the country. Otherwise the growth of the U.S.A. at this period
would have been much slower.
Professor Robinson inquired whether Professor Kuznets meant that
returns to scale were such that a higher rate of increase in population
meant an even bigger increase of income.
329
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
Professor Kuznets replied that he thought this was so.
Professor Gudin returned to the puzzle of how mechanization could
have taken place where there was much cheap labour. Dr. Singer had
said that in spite of the use of machinery, the increase in the demand for
labour in the U.S.A. absorbed the surplus population. But this was a
macro-economic point; the entrepreneur was concerned with micro-
economic problems and looked at costs and prices. He had to choose
the relative quantities of labour and machinery which gave lowest costs.
Entrepreneurs making decisions were not the same people as economists
looking at what had happened years later.
Professor Gudin thought that Professor Bentzel had made an im-
portant point which he could elaborate from what he had seen in Brazil,
where bulldozers were used for road construction despite the existence
of cheap labour. The reason was that the productivity of machinery
was so very much greater than that of unmechanized labour. Further,
entrepreneurs were able to resort to machinery without causing unem-
ployment, labour being absorbed by the development of the country.
Professor Neumark thought one could get an interesting example of
the crucial issues if one looked at recent developments in West Germany.
In three or four years, from 1946 to 1949, the population of West Ger-
many rose from 40 to 50 million people. One would have expected lower
wages, etc., and not increased investment in labour-saving machinery.
Yet this was what had happened. Perhaps the explanation was that all
firms knew that this was a once-for-all immigration and therefore that
~ven if wages fell they would not remain low for long. As a matter of
fact, after a time, wages had risen considerably and the labour-saving
machinery proved worthwhile. Although this probably explained the
German case, it was difficult to see why American businessmen in the
middle of the nineteenth century would have expected the same thing.
Professor Cairncross said that in discussing the change from craft pro-
duction to machine production we must specify the kind of labour we
were talking about. Were we interested in the machine-minder or the
craftsman ? Perhaps some of the apparently inconsistent points in the
discussion about Boston resulted from treating labour as homogeneous.
Professor Gerschenkron had spoken of a free supply of labour and this
was correct if the bottle-neck was on one side. If in Boston craftsmen
had been short and machine-minders available in large quantities, then
Professor Gerschenkron's explanation could be correct. Dr. Singer had
suggested that, if the labour were dear, so would machinery be, but this
again depended on who made machines and who used them. In Boston,
the machinery was apparently used by the well-paid daughters of local
farmers, but it was not produced by them. In Britain, even at that time,
machinery was probably relatively more expensive than in the U.S.A.
Professor Gerschenkron thought that in Boston competition between
machine-minders and craftsmen was only part of the story. When the
Irish arrived, the daughters of farmers left the factories. This had been
a period of very great technological progress.
330
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
Professor Marczewski thought that we exaggerated the intelligence of
entrepreneurs who did not study macro-economics but worked out
whether they would be able to rely on a supply of cheap immigrant
labour or not. They would reason on a short-term basis. Professor
Marczewski thought that the kind of question they would ask would be
whether they had resources of capital available, whether the market was
growing, and what was the cost of labour as compared with machinery.
If the market was developing then it would clearly pay to invest, and
once entrepreneurs had decided to do so they would employ the latest
and best machines whatever the cost of labour.
Professor Cootner suggested that since the U.S.A. had been a low-cost
raw material producer of many industrial raw materials, this had meant
an increasing market for the U.S.A. in cotton and wheat. With a pre-
dictably-growing demand for these materials from Europe, and an in-
creasing population, the risk of investment was reduced, which in a sense
reduced capital cost. When industrialization did take place it did so in
the cheapest area- the North-East.
Professor North said he had found it hard to write his paper since he
had just finished a book on growth in the U.S.A. and had found it diffi-
cult to pull out this small part of his rather lengthy thesis. He thought
the heart of the issue was the inter-relation between the North and the
South and the West. Having had to leave out a lot, he had looked in
detail at growth in the North-East and at some of the broader arguments.
He thought that the question of labour costs was not very important
but that size of the market was the crucial influence. At the end of the
eighteenth century the future of the U.S.A. did not look very bright-
as indeed contemporary Englishmen had suggested. Only with the
Napoleonic wars was there a change, with the expansion of shipping
and of the re-export trade. In 1783 the Americans had been deprived
of the benefits of their comparative cost advantages by the British navi-
gation laws. However, after 1793, the Napoleonic wars had led to a big
expansion in the U.S.A. and by 1815 the North-East had become a centre
of development. When there was peace again, despite the restrictions
on trade imposed by Britain, the situation was different.
Cotton grew rapidly after 1815 and the South became a highly special-
ized area concentrating on the cotton trade. He hoped that this would
explain his emphasis on the market. Professor North said he would
answer two questions. First, why export expansion did or did not lead
tQ internal expansion, and second, why expansion led to increases in pro-
ductivity.
Export expansion was always important for growth. One could argue
that with a big country one could have trade between regions of that
country, and it was certainly true that for at least 150 years the expansion
in America had been a result of getting into bigger markets. He therefore
suggested that export expansion was a necessary but not a sufficient
condition for growth. But one also had changes which led to basic
improvements in the domestic sector and one therefore had to ask why
33 1
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
an increase in income from exports led to the expansion and diversifica-
tion of the domestic economy. This brought him back to the question
of the South. The South found that its income from cotton was increas-
ing, but there was no urbanization and little manufacturing. Capital was
put into the expansion of cotton acreage. The South also spent a lot of
its income on importing food from the West and manufactured com-
modities from the North-East. Why was it then that the South did
not take-off ?
The first answer was that the comparative advantage of the South in
cotton was so great. Even when cotton fell to six cents, as it did during
the most difficult periods, it was still not worth shifting into other acti-
vities. Second, there was the character of cotton as an export industry.
Cotton required much land and a great deal of labour - in this case
slave labour. There was therefore a very unequal income distribution,
with a few wealthy people who imported luxuries, and many very
poor people. This means that no supporting industry developed and
there were none of Professor Rostow's spreading effects. Cotton was
transported along the rivers so that there was little investment in social
overhead capital. Nor was there any special incentive to divert tax
money to investment in human capital via education. The wealthy
landowners sent their children away to schools in the North and there
was no incentive for the planter to set up a school system. In other
words, there were no incentives to improve the quality of the labour
force through education. Finally, developments in ocean transport had
brought a rapid fall in freight rates and meant that back-hauls were very
cheap. In order to avoid bringing their ships back empty, transport
companies were prepared to bring manufacturing goods into the South
at very low rates. This was yet another factor removing any incentive
for the South to develop its own industry. Professor North suggested
that all these elements takes together explained why the South did not
take-off.
On the question of how the growth of the market led to an increase
in productivity, Professor North said he thought that George Stigler's
argument, in his 1951 article, was the main explanation. Although Stigler
was concerned with a different issue, he had suggested that a firm would
begin on a small scale where it had to make its own machinery and train
its own labour. A bigger market would allow the breaking-down of
functions. Specific tasks could be undertaken by different firms or parts
of firms, and all these separate activities had different costs. Only with
splitting-up and specialization could increasing returns be achieved. It
was this process of specialization which had occurred in the North-East.
The Stigler argument seemed to fit the United States very well; although
he could not prove that productivity increased as a result, it nevertheless
seemed likely. In addition to this direct effect of specialization, one got
all its other attendant advantages.
Replying to specific points in the debate, Professor North said he
might already have answered Professor Leibenstein, and that the import-
332
Hagru - Summary Record of the Debate
ance of the export market was his main element. To Professor Bulhijes,
Professor North said that profits in textiles were very high because Boston
manufacturers, unlike many of the others, were very efficient and even
in bad times did quite well. In these circumstances, even the bigger
firms which grew up around Boston were able to develop considerably
by ploughing back their own funds ; but they nevertheless needed to
borrow a great deal. On the issue of cheap versus dear labour, Professor
North said that a major point was that immigration. was not important
until 1845 so that this debate could only refer to the period 1845-60.
In the early development with its quite elaborate method of labour
saving, we were talking of a period before the big wave of immigrants.
He would like to point out that, even after the immigrants had arrived
wage rates were higher than elsewhere. In a sense, too, we were dealing
with non-competing groups. The Irish were not mobile, so that their
wages tended to remain lower than the wages of other workers. Never-
theless, wages over the whole economy were not low. Another point
was the quality of the labour force. The United States was lucky in
having an educated labour force to begin with, and this had led to higher
productivity. Indeed, some Boston manufacturers were unhappy about
employing the Irish because of their low quality as workers.
Professor North said it was not altogether true that there was only
one big sector of growth in the U.S.A., even if one were only looking at
manufacturing. There were growing sectors to the West at Cincinnati,
Buffalo, Cleveland, etc. These sectors were widely spread, and it was
only in New England that manufacturing development was very concen-
trated. This brought us back to the question of how far growth was
automatic -if there ever was anything in growth which was automatic
Professor North suggested that growth depended on human capital and
that this could be well illustrated by the revival of a country like Germany
after the devastation of war. In the short run, a highly-skilled labour
force needed capital equipment to work with and, when the war ended,
not only was it a relatively simple task to replace all the capital that had
been destroyed, but, as rebuilding went on, the expansion of output
per man was enormous. Professor North said that on textiles he agreed
with Professor Rostow, but he did not regard the railway as being quite
so important as Professor Rostow did. The growth of specialization
within regions was already important before the railways were developed,
and before the Civil War the main r6le of the railways was in lowering
transport costs rather than in building up other industries. He did not
deny that backward and forward linkages were important, but this was
a question of degree and he would emphasize over-all demand much more.
Finally, in replying to Professor Robinson on the relation between popu-
lation growth and income per head, Professor North said he agreed with
Professor Kuznets. The U.S.A. was a classic case in the sense that as
other factors of production increased in number they could co-operate
progressively more efficiently with the large and valuable resources of the
country to give increasing returns. The growth of population was,
333
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained GrOfiJth
therefore, an unmitigated benefit and was crucial for his argument about
the importance of having growing markets.
FOURTH SESSION
THE DISCUSSION OF THE PAPER
BY PROFESSOR HABAKKUK AND MISS DEANE
Professor Hoffmann said that participants would know that he was
particularly interested in the economy of the U.K. so that he was pleased
to introduce this particular paper. Britain was also the first country to
experience take-off. He wanted to raise several questions because he had
no major criticisms. The paper answered Professor Rostow in the nega-
tive sense in that it said there was no evidence that many of the features
he looked for, particularly on timing, occurred in the British case. There
were, however, three special features. First of all, there was the direct
influence of the Napoleonic war because production of guns, etc. led
to the development of iron within the U.K. and to a demand for many
imported goods. The second feature was the inflation which resulted
from the war. This was a unique experience in that particular period,
and meant that absolute price figures became meaningless and that
relative price series had to be used. A major difficulty was that the dis-
persion of the price figures was very great and real output was therefore
hard to calculate. What had never been analysed was how far there was
a profit inflation which altered income distribution and the expectations
of entrepreneurs.
Third, there was the function of overseas trade in promoting progress
in the eighteenth century. Probably the effects of development in the
iron and cotton industries would still have been important even if there
had been no foreign trade, since these industries represented 10 per cent
of national income in that period and probably half of manufacturing
output. If, despite these special influences, cotton and iron would still
have been important, there must have been some broader results from
their demonstration effects on the rest of the economy. As for new pro-
duction functions, the paper showed not only how technical developments
were interconnected but also why specific developments took place at
this particular stage. These two authorities showed that there was no
competitive element from elsewhere in the world making innovation
necessary. So it was not clear why the new techniques became available
at this particular moment, and why the genesis of this new phase in the
economic progress of the U.K. and the world should have taken place
within a hundred years of the date at which it did happen.
Scholars like Max Weber had brought in religious and moral behaviour
as an explanation of why the U.K. was one of the first countries to ex-
perience take-off. Now, one had a large number of poor countries which
were themselves trying to develop, and he wondered if recent research
334
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
could give any new evidence on ethical and social factors which might
perhaps explain why there were greater or smaller lags between a spiritual
change and any consequent economic effects. Professor Hoffmann did
not want to glorify entrepreneurs, but he did think we needed to see the
whole background against which they operated. He also thought that
there were some similarities and many differences between the experiences
of various countries ; we had the same problem with the business cycle.
If all these common factors were compatible with a particular stage in
either the cycle or economic development, then one could talk of a phase
as Professor Rostow talked of take-off. Naturally, statistical tests had
to be applied to special and individual cases and one had to give the
theorist some freedom to characterize a particular period in the way
that he wanted to. Stufentheorie had· been very popular with German
economists at the end of the nineteenth century, but was now deservedly
out of date. It was necessary to test hypotheses and then to re-formulate
one's theory in order to give a better explanation of reality. For this
reason he wanted to see more testing of hypotheses than had so far been
done during the Conference.
Professor Delivanis wondered, first of all, how one should look at the
importance of inflation between 1780 and 1800. He did not know whether
the developments we were studying would have occurred in the U.K.
even without it. Second, he wondered about the effects of foreign trade.
He pointed out that before 1914 a war was not so spectacular a break
in foreign trade as it was now. Britain's trade with Europe was, however,
affected by the Napoleonic war and he asked whether, on balance, the
effect of foreign trade in this period had helped or hindered development
in Britain.
Dr. Fischer did not think that the influence of war was special to the
British case. The papers on Russia and Japan showed similar influences.
The Japanese had had the windfall gains from their victory in the Sino-
Japanese war. In Russia, one had the effects of losing a war in the Crimea,
which incited the government to new efforts to promote economic de-
velopment. Again, in Germany, the end of the 1870 war with France
had led to an unprecedented boom. Dr. Fischer stressed that in general
he did not believe that economic development was unaffected by political
events. As for the function of foreign trade, he did not think that Britain's
experience had been unique. For example, there was the similar situation
in Japan. He also thought that in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries
foreign trade was already very important for the U.K. The depression
of the first half of the seventeenth century was mainly a result of falling
British exports to Europe.
Professor Landes said that this was really a negative paper, particularly
because a desire to show the weaknesses in Professor Rostow's theory led
the authors to ignore the real significance of what had gone on. He
noted that both businessmen and statesmen of the eighteenth century
were aware that great changes were taking place, changes far more im-
portant than the authors would allow. Professor Landes suggested first
MZ 335
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
that it was a mistake, in view of the small place of iron, and even manu-
facturing industry as a whole, in a largely agricultural economy, to expect
changes in this one sector, however revolutionary, to have a massive and
immediate impact on overall national income. Second, he wanted to
stress the qualitativ~ importance of these changes, which went well beyond
what the authors had said in the paper. For example, in iron there was
the whole development of puddling and rolling techniques, which indeed
applied to the metal industries in general. Similarly, there were new
machine tools and new precision methods, steam engines, etc., all of which
contributed to and were stimulated by the development of cotton manu-
facture. Indeed, one could say that a whole new system of production
based on the use of machines and mechanical power was being introduced.
He did not deny that there were very few factories at the beginning of
the process, but what had started on a small scale grew until it eventually
spread to the whole economy. The process appeared to have begun
almost accidentally in cotton, rather than wool, because cotton was a
more tractable material and the demand for cotton goods was more
elastic. So cotton boomed, and drew the rest of the economy with it.
Professor Landes agreed that the importance of foreign trade needed
stressing. The pressure of imports often promoted technical change and
compelled home industry to adopt foreign inventions or to develop its
own. And the need for imports often gave rise to industrial development
aimed at earning foreign exchange. Finally, the nature of technological
change was such that gains in productivity outstripped the growth of
home markets and so led to a campaign to create new ones. Professor
Habakkuk himself had noted how big a percentage of cotton goods was
exported by 1820, and the whole of British manufacturing prosperity
depended on this. It was clear that already by the early nineteenth cen-
tury there was a push by British industry to seek and gain new export
outlets.
Professor Landes also agreed that the agricultural revolution was
important. Clearly something had to be done to increase the food supply
to meet the needs of a growing population. But to say this was not to
account for it, as the experience of other countries had shown. An agri-
cultural revolution by itself would not make an industrial revolution ; it
simply helped to make one possible. The agricultural revolution in
Britain was a permissive factor, necessary but far from sufficient.
Finally, Professor Landes suggested that Professor Ashton might be
more correct on the dates (1760-1830) than Professor Rostow. Still, he
did not want to minimize the importance of the technical changes at the
end of the eighteenth century. They provided so much competitive
leverage that foreigners found it necessary to copy them almost from
the start. It was not just a question of profits but of survival.
Professor Kuznets said he would quarrel with Professor Landes about
the revolutionary technical changes at the end of the eighteenth century.
These were revolutionary in retrospect, but would not have appeared in
this light at the time. The crucial question was whether one regarded a
336
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
change as important when it was first introduced, and when people were
impressed by it, or at the date when the change actually became important
because of its weight in the economy. He also pointed out that the Con-
ference was discussing economic growth and not industrial development.
These were two different things which we must keep separate.
Professor North also found the emphasis of Professors Rostow and
Landes on industrialization a false emphasis, because he agreed with
Professor Kuznets that accelerated growth need not be the same thing.
At this stage in Britain's history there was not merely a narrow range
of development. It was all too easy to pick out the technical innovations
as the dramatic aspects of what had happened, but we needed a much
broader approach which would enable us to look at all aspects of change.
Professor Rostow pointed out that Professor Ashton now put much
more emphasis on the developments at the end of the eighteenth century
as a result of recent statistical findings. Professor Rostow went on to
say that in general he did not think one should worry that his was a
debatable paper. When one created a new vocabulary, as he had done,
this represented an act of aggression and it was natural for others to try
to deal with this by debate. He himself had been surprised by the jump
in British real national output about 1780. Before that date there had
been an annual increase of 0·9 per cent, which went up to 1·9 per cent.
It was true that the 1770's had been a decade of war, but then, so were
the 1790's. So far as the impact of this war was concerned, he thought
it had diverted investments into specific non-industrial channels on a
large scale. Agriculture had had to expand to replace imports. Ship-
ping and docks had had to be developed and the U.K. had granted big
loans and subsidies to her allies. The war had stimulated some branches
of the metal industries. And the development of the cotton gin had
been so radical an invention that cotton prices fell despite inflation~
Wool had also been stimulated but, on the whole, the war had not helped
the textile trades, or accelerated the take-off.
On changes in production functions, Professor Rostow said that the
six-fold increase in the rate of growth of cotton textiles over two decades
had raised them from 3 to 10 per cent of national product. This in itself
was a very sharp increase but one could not measure the total effects
merely by their direct impact. Miss Deane had taken the effects back
to the demands made by machinery production on iron ore, but the
effects of expansion in cotton had been much greater. For example,
Manchester had grown from 27,000 people in 1780 to 95,000 in 1800.
The population of Birmingham had risen from 30,000 to 73,000. Pro-
fessor Rostow said that we were indebted to Miss Deane for her orderly
statistics of capital formation. When these were disaggregated one found
that in the 1780's there was an extraordinary increase in the production
of bricks. This no doubt resulted from the canal boom, from the first
cotton factories, and from the associated urban building activity. When
the demand for bricks levelled off, ships and agriculture took over as
leading sectors. He would guess that savings in the U.K. rose sharply
337
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
from 1780 to 1800. There were not only private savings but taxes rose
too, as did government investment. The government was investing an
average of £5,000,000 in the 1790's and, if one added in other tax receipts,
was taking a very substantial part of the national income. He was open
to persuasion, but all the evidence he had, including that for the industrial
capital market, suggested a high marginal rate of saving. Professor
Rostow said he did not underestimate the importance of foreign trade.
He only wanted to insist that one should relate expanding markets to
something wider than their direct impact on particular industries. One
had to reach back to the direct and lateral effects of industrialization in
particular sectors.
Professor North was no doubt right that one had to look at all variables,
which meant that gradual changes in the movements of big aggregates
were important, but in transport, cotton, iron, steam engines, and the
development of the factory system, there had been real discontinuities.
Professor Rostow said he wanted to recall the concept of the propensity
to be surprised, which was once introduced into a debate on income
distribution. A very small shift in income distribution could be important
and powerful in its effects. Take-off- associated with a relatively few
sectors - could be expected to have only a marginal effect on aggregate
statistics. This must be so since any economy experiencing take-off
would give a heavy weight to agriculture in its output. A shift in the
proportion of cotton output to total industrial output from 3 to 10 per
cent was remarkable, as was the jump in real national product in Britain
around 1780. The problem was that we were looking at the process
of the diffusion of modern technology and he thought one ought to draw
the line between the initial successful attempts to start this process and
the point when their effects became sufficiently powerful to keep the
process regularly moving forward. Miss Deane and Professor Kuznets
had said that one should take a cross-section of the economy and look
at industries in terms of their current relative importance in that economy.
He, on the other hand, looked at the role of a particular sector of the
economy in determining future growth. This was also the issue between
him and Professor North. If one looked at British growth in this way,
one saw that, in the take-off period, the system was being developed so
as to become the basis for the whole future development of factory
industry, the railways, etc. What divided the protagonists was a respect-
ful and useful view, Professor North stressing the importance of the
current weight of a particular sector in the economy and he taking the
potentialities for growth which a particular sector was providing.
Professor Cairncross said that biological change was both continuous
and discontinuous ; birth, for example, was a discontinuity. The same
was true of economic change. The series of inventions required to pro-
duce the steam engine represented a major break in the process of develop-
ment ; yet they led to a series of applications which could be regarded
as continuous. There had been other technical advances both before and
after the steam engine, but none that played so decisive a role. The
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fact of continuity was made clear in the paper where it was said that
even in 1860 many of the uses of the steam engine still lay in the future.
Yet there had also been the discontinuity that Professor Rostow implied
in the term take-off. Was this discontinuity not traceable to the inven-
tion of the steam engine ?
On population and agricultural development Professor Cairncross said
that the figures suggested that this preceded the growth of industry. If
one put all the stress on this sequence of events, the economist would
regard the picture presented to him as one where labour was temporarily
redundant. Yet labour was recognized as being scarce at this time and
he had never seen an intellectually satisfying reconciliation of this prob-
lem. Moreover, one could explain the industrial revolution in terms
of technical innovation leading to cost reductions, or items of market
expansion leading to technical innovation. But could there be any market
expansion without a preceding fall in cost ? Since the development of
the U.K. was the first case of take-off, one would have expected in this
case at least that there would have been a fall in costs. The stress in the
Conference seemed to have been on demand expansion leading to inno-
vation, and he wondered whether this was correct in the case of the U.K.
Mr. Berrill suggested that the correct answer was that there had been
a bit of each, although he himself would put the emphasis on increasing
demand partly as a result of a rise of the level of demand in European
agriculture. If one accepted this there was need to assume a prior fall
in costs. Mr. Berrill said he had found it very hard to follow Professor
Landes. The idea that British traders had to push sales had never been
part of the argument. The fact that some markets were better than others
meant that these better markets were particularly attractive, but business-
men would push their sales wherever they could. Replying to Professor
Cairncross, Mr. Berrill suggested that not even the invention of the
steam engine would by itself have been a big enough change to give the
breaking process that we were discussing. One point was that to develop
it one needed a machine-making industry and the development of cheap
construction, using Irish labour, etc. On the supply of labour he was
surprised to see in the paper that from 1840 there had been no control
over population growth through the level of output. He believed that
for rapid growth and mechanization one needed dear labour to begin
and then cheaper labour later on. He thought, for example, that the
development of mechanized weaving had been held back for a long time
by the hand-loom weavers accepting lower wages.
Professor Robinson thought that, in his discussion of the U.S.A., Pro-
fessor North had tried to stress the total growth of the market. He
wondered whether there was not a similar situation in the U.K., the
extension there being based mainly on exports. Professor Robinson
said he had been studying the changes in the ratio of exports to national
income in the U.K. over the period 1700 to 1800. If one looked at the
U.K. in 1700 one found that 8 per cent of output was exported, three-
fourths of this being textiles, mainly woollens. By 1740 exports represented
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
10 per cent of national income, and this percentage rose to 16 in 1800.
Exports of textiles had risen from 8 per cent of national income to 10 per
cent. It followed that there had been a big rise in exports, both absolutely
and relative to national income. This had helped the economy in two
ways. First, exports had occurred where productivity was highest. So,
by increasing the proportion of exports to national income, it had been
possible to increase the rate of growth of productivity. Secondly, the
increased exports had eased the task of general economic expansion and
one found a marked contrast with, for example, the position in India
today. Part of this added power to import had been used to bring in
agricultural goods like wheat which, in turn, allowed even more industrial
expansion. But only 30 per cent of this growth in exports was accounted
for by cotton. Up to 1800, exports of woollens were greater than those
of cotton goods and one-fourth of the growth in exports had been a growth
in woollen exports. It followed, of course, that much of the growth had
taken place outside the textile industry altogether - for example, in
metals and machinery.
Miss Deane replied to the discussion up to this point. She said that
the criticism that the paper represented a negative approach was correct.
It had been very much tied to the statistics but she was nevertheless
unable to read into these statistics any evidence of a decisive transforma-
tion in the economy over the period in question. It was true that there
had been crucial inventions in the metal and cotton industries which
determined the future pace and direction of development. What she
could not accept was that these made growth, either partial or aggregate,
inevitable or automatic. The main criterion in Professor Rostow's theory
was that take-off implied a regular flow of new production functions,
but she did not see why the developments we were discussing in the U.K.
had made any such production functions inevitable.
In reply to Professor Hoffmann and also Professor Delivanis, Miss
Deane said that she thought that the American war had been followed
by improved trading conditions after 1783. During the first ten years
of the French war the British economy had been helped by the difficulties
in which its European competitors found themselves. Later, however,
when the continental blockade became effective, she agreed that the
benefit to Britain had been much less marked. Miss Deane agreed with
Professor Hoffman that it was hard to estimate changes in the value of
money in an inflationary situation. As to whether there had been profit
inflation, she would say that this had been mainly in agriculture and
certainly had shifted the distribution of incomes in favour of agriculture.
Whether the cotton and iron industries would have become increasingly
important in any case she was uncertain, but she thought that that might
well be true also. The question was why new techniques developed
there and' then, and the answer was that there were bottlenecks to be
broken- for example, in cotton spinning. But it was anyone's guess
why these had been broken at that particular stage rather than earlier.
Finally, on whether there was any new evidence on Max Weber's 'spiritual
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change', she did not have any grounds for believing that there was a big
difference in the rate of economic change as the result of this. To Pro-
fessor Delivanis, Miss Deane said that she did not think that inflation
had been important in bringing about technological change. These
changes would probably have occurred without inflation, and perhaps
even without foreign trade. Miss Deane agreed with Professor Landes
that foreign trade had developed Britain's markets ahead of her possi-
bilities for supplying them by the 1820's. She would be sorry to minimize
the importance of economic changes occurring in Britain at the end of
the eighteenth century, but these were not the only crucial events in
Britain's economic development, and both earlier and later changes were
significant.
Miss Deane noted that Professor Rostow had been surprised at the
growth in output per head estimated for the 1790's, but pointed out that
the figures in the paper gave the maximum spurts in output that could
be deduced from the statistics. If one looked at the two hundred years
from 1740, one found slowly increasing rates of growth up to 1850 and
then some slackening followed by a further period of increase. The
evidence for British growth over the long period suggested a continuous
process, and take-off around 1780 was by no means clear. On urbaniza-
tion, Miss Deane said she would expect that if there were big increases
in urbanization over two decades, large enough to have affected building,
the results of the increased building would have shown themselves in
the brick statistics. The fact that they did not, suggested that while the
urban population might have grown over this period, there had been
little extra building.
Professor Rostow interjected to say that he agreed that there had been
no extra building. He was only bringing in urbanization to show what
he referred to as lateral effects ; for example, the fact that people in
towns would save more than people in the country and so raise the
propensity to save.
Dr. Singer suggested that all the evidence was against this, for example,
in Japan. Many economists agreed that the effect might be quite the
opposite. This was therefore an open question.
Miss Deane said she agreed that savings had not risen much in Britain
at this stage, nor was there much investment by the government. Taxes
were high but most of the money raised went in fighting the war and in
subsidizing allies, not in investment.
Professor Rostow agreed with this but suggeststed that the war had
helped exports and therefore increased the profits of the export trade.
There had been a transfer of income within the British population, with
the commercial and manufacturing groups gaining through the increased
export trade.
Mr. Boserup was surprised to find on page 76 of the paper the sug-
gestion that, around 1800, industry, commerce, and transport should
already have accounted for no less than 45 per cent of the national capital
(excluding land}, and buildings for no more than some 30 per cent.
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
Dr. Singer suggested that if one was looking at the gradualism of
change the figures on pages 75 and 76 were not conclusive. These were
supposed to show that investment in the coal and iron industries and in
canals accounted for only a small part of the total increase in investment.
In fact, it was shown to represent 25 per cent of the total increase in
investment, a rise of roughly the size required by the view of Professor
Arthur Lewis, that savings would rise to 5 to 10 per cent of the national
income over a short period. In other words, there was an argument here
in favour of Lewis' thesis.
Professor Hoffmann suggested that the crucial question was how far
the percentage of investment going into fixed capital went into buildings.
In many countries buildings represented 50 per cent of the farmer's
capital- excluding land. It was therefore important to know whether
dwellings were included in farm capital.
Miss Deane replied that farm buildings were included in these figures.
Dr. Singer was not convinced by the evidence for the statement on
page 82 that it took one hundred years for the share of agriculture in the
national production to drop to near 10 per cent. He suggested that a
figure of 10 per cent was characteristic of very highly developed areas.
If one represented growth as depending on the rate at which population
moved out of agriculture, the British figures showed a very high fall in
the agricultural population in the early stages - by modern standards
the decline from 1801 was quite rapid. Nevertheless, there had been an
extremely big decline from 1750 when Britain had had roughly the maxi-
mum possible percentage of the population in agriculture. To Professor
Robinson, Dr. Singer suggested that one reason why exports were im-
portant as a leading sector was that they enabled a country to get away
from the only alternative, namely, what Professor Nurkse had called
'balanced growth'. For balanced growth implied an impossibly large-
scale and overall effort to develop. One possibility was that if one were
able to develop imports at an early stage in growth, by using them as a
way of encouraging growth, one could then induce development later on
by cutting these imports off.
Professor Landes felt that the discussion had been fruitful if only
because it was the nearest thing to direct conflict so far. But he thought
that to a large extent the apparent dispute came from difficulties of com-
munication ; different people emphasized different points. He did not
think it was accidental that industrialization was so long in coming, and
then happened so often in the modern period. There had been big
changes previously in many economies, not least the population increase
of the Middle Ages, which both caused and was caused by an increase
in food supply. But such responses took place within the old system
and under diminishing returns, techniques remaining essentially the same.
In the eighteenth century, however, something unique happened in that
industry responded to a challenge and made an apparently irreversible
technical break-through. He therefore thought that there was a discon-
tinuity here in a qualitative sense, and that the whole complex of inno-
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vations, with the rise in productivity they caused, produced a much
bigger change than man had ever seen before. Eventually the alliance
of science and technique made possible systematic innovation and a
continued flow of productivity increases. Professor Landes suggested
that this qualitative change was a great event in human history. He
admitted that this was an ex post evaluation, but this did not invalidate
it. He did not feel handicapped as a historian in being able to look back
at the past and to interpret it. Besides, even at the time, many people
had thought that the changes we now called the industrial revolution
were altering the whole future of economic history. He agreed that
more accurate measurement and dating had left us with a more compli-
cated picture than we had suspected, and that overall change was gradual
rather than abrupt. Nevertheless, there was a decided change of pace in
the period after 1780. As for the international diffusion of this break with
the past, which took place over a period of several decades, the papers
presented made it clear that we were faced by a complex of changes
occurring at different rates in different places. One might generalize,
perhaps, by saying that the countries which followed were able to move
more quickly because they could look back on British experience. Pro-
fessor Landes concluded by saying that it was easy, or rather popular,
to make fun of Marx's system of stages of economic history, but there was
a great deal in it.
Professor Marczewski wondered whether Miss Deane thought one
could assign a fundamental role to the terms of trade between manu-
facturing and primary products, within the U.K. and with the rest of
the world. If she regarded this difference as important, had she tried
to measure it?
Miss Deane said that she did think that this was important, but she
had not tried to measure the terms of trade in this way as yet. The
difficulty with the trade statistics was that they were all at official values
and it was difficult to get accurate prices for the eighteenth century.
Miss Deane said that she did not quite understand what Dr. Singer had
said about the fall in the numbers employed in agriculture. Her own
point had been that the fall had been really rapid only after 1850.
Dr. Singer explained that his point was that between 1801 and 1911
the percentage of the population in agriculture had fallen from above
50 per cent to less than 10 per cent, while the total population was rising
at 1 per cent per annum. This was the kind of rapid movement which
only fast-growing countries like Mexico could achieve.
Miss Deane said that she wanted to assure Professor Landes that she
did not wish to deny that there had been an industrial revolution. But
if one concentrated too exclusively on the fourth quarter of the eighteenth
century, and failed to realize that the rise in output began in the 1740's,
one missed many interesting features of the industrial revolution itself.
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
FIFTH SESSION
DISCUSSION OF THE PAPERS
BY PROFESSOR HOFFMANN AND DR. FISCHER
Professor Gerschenkran first considered Dr. Fischer's paper. He
thought that it dealt accurately with the effects of government interven-
tion in many fields, such as patent law, education, the Customs Union,
and so on. Nevertheless he thought that Dr. Fischer overestimated the
role of the state and its potentialities. The government could not do as
much as Dr. Fischer claimed to educate the lower classes, especially into
such virtues as diligence, assiduity, and thrift. He thought it was more
sensible to say that the Craft Guilds had done that.
On the whole paper, Professor Gerschenkron thought that what was
said on the cumulative effect was both misleading and exaggerated. All
these positive things were done by the government, as well as other things
that were left over to Professor Hoffmann's paper. But it was still
doubtful whether one could fairly say that the activities of the state
could be called a strategic factor in industrialization. One had to take
account of all the things, in the period after 1870, which the government
did to thwart industrialization. All came out well because of the huge
momentum of the German economy, but we must remember this negative
contribution of the government. Professor Schumpeter liked to say that
the German government did all in its power to stifle industrialization,
and while Professor Gerschenkron did not think this was a completely
tenable view, there was more than a grain of truth in it. The main ques-
tion turned out to be what was a strategic factor. This put the proper
emphasis on other things, for example the role of the banks relatively to
that of the state. This led to the Hoffmann paper.
Professor Hoffmann was concerned with the period between the early
1830's and the early 1850's. He had many interesting points to make,
for example, on population, on the role of agriculture, on the relative
roles of consumption and investment, and so on. Nevertheless, Professor
Gerschenkron did not feel that a clear case had been made out for shifting
the date of the beginning of German industrialization forward to 1830.
However, his basic criticism was about the national income data.
He thought that since the data for the early 1800's were very unreliable
they had to be used with the very greatest caution. Indeed, perhaps they
should not be used at all for the moment, unless the derivation of each
figure- was given in detail. Even if we accepted the figures at current
prices, the process of deflation was very crude, and he did not think one
could use the figures at constant prices. To be able to do that, one needed
proper deflators, and he did not think that these existed yet. We should
get better figures one day, once price and cost-of-living indices had been
worked out for the specific purpose of using them as deflators. At the
moment, the national income figures only began to be really useful for
dates after what Professor Hoffmann regarded as the take-off period.
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Nevertheless, the industrial figures were very useful, both for manu-
facturing and mining, and the thing that interested him was that the
index of industrial growth which Professor Hoffmann provided conflicted
with his own. The divergence might lie in the exclusion of machinery,
though he did not see how that could make so big a difference. He still
felt that it was the 1850's which showed the real kink in the curve of
manufacturing output. But, on the whole question of continuity and
discontinuity, he thought that this had been discussed so far in too
ontological a fashion ; participants were regarding each other as continuity
men or discontinuity men.
He agreed that sudden accelerations were important but felt that one
should look for these in industrial output and not in national income.
He regarded such sudden accelerations as manifestations of discontinuity.
Naturally, the historical concept of continuity was very different from
the mathematicians. This was how he himself thought and talked about
continuity and discontinuity. There was acceleration in the world, and
one could smooth this out and get continuity by using such statistical
devices as moving averages. But we could still find and deal with discrete
things. He thought that it was best to find some specific discontinuity
and study this to discover whether it was of particular interest. It would
be, if one found that other important things were typically connected
with the change in speed in the cases one had studied. By going over the
changes one found in such specific cases, one could organize one's ideas
and explain phenomena better.
So far as Professor Hoffmann's paper was concerned, he thought a
closer look at the 1850's was needed. He thought progress then was less
closely connected with the role of the government than with that of the
banks, whose activities he regarded as crucial. This might turn out to
be a more promising approach.
Professor Marczewski was struck by the analysis on page 114 of the
Hoffmann paper, where Professor Hoffmann used a particular method
to measure the growth of the social product. He assumed an investment
quota of 5 per cent and a capital-output ratio of 3·5. With a 1 per cent
growth rate for population, this gave an annual growth rate of real income
per head of 0·4 per cent. Professor Marczewski did not see what grounds
there were for these particular assumptions. The investment quota and
the capital-output ratio had varied greatly in the past, and Table 9 showed
similar variations for Germany. It would have been preferable for the
analysis of the early period to be based on the actual growth of output,
for the industrial output series was a very long one. This very indirect
method for the period up to 1850 led to serious problems of timing.
On page 106, one had a growth rate of 6·3 per cent for capital goods
output in the period 1834-60, compared with a rate of only 2 per cent
for consumer goods. The figure of 6·3 per cent, however, was based on
statistics for only a small number of industries which were greatly con-
cerned with the production of capital goods. Perhaps the argument should
be modified to allow for this. Professor Marczewski said he knew it
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
was impossible to break down the figures of final production, and so one
had to take the industries en bloc ; but perhaps the analysis could have
been made more precise.
Professor North said that he had been brought up to believe that the
government was very important in bringing U.S. growth, but as he had
worked in this field he had become more and more sceptical. We needed
first to know how growth was caused, and then to go on to show how
the government helped the things causing growth to happen. Could
Professor Fischer spell out how the interventions he was studying actually
led to growth ?
Professor Rostow suggested that if one started out with the idea that
a pre-conditioning process was needed, there were some very specific
jobs that had to be done. The way in which the jobs were carried out
would differ, however, as would the degree of difficulty. It was necessary
to find and train men; to build up social overhead capital ; to reform
the agricultural system ; and to begin to expand foreign trade. One
often found governments doing all these things, but one did not often
find a government actually building up the key industries, which was
also necessary. As he understood Dr. Fischer's paper, it asserted that
the government did nothing directly to raise industrial production, but
that it did engage actively in the pre-conditioning process for industrial-
ization.
Professor Rostow agreed with Professor North that the U.S. govern-
ment had done little in the way of giving direct support to industrial
growth. But it had helped indirectly. The Constitution provided a
legal framework for a national market ; the Federal Government assisted
the railroads and imposed tariffs. But as Professor Gerschenkron had
said, governments could also impede progress. The normal situation was
that whether or not the government should act to establish the pre-
conditions was always regarded as a very important question for debate
and that there was always a strong body of opinion which did not want
government action at all. We had to look at the role of government
not only in encouraging the direct industrialization of the country but
in the general preparation of the society for industrialization.
So far as Professor Hoffmann's paper was concerned, this led us back
to the question of the 'preceding decade'. Professor Rostow had no
strong objection to putting back German take-off to the 1830's, but had
not done so for several reasons. The acceleration in cotton came in the
1850's, though this was not very important for take-off in Germany.
The acceleration in shipping came only after 1845 and that in pig iron
in the 1850's. Coal had shown a steady rise, but he did not think the
railway system in the 1830's was big enough or integrated enough to
give substantial spreading effects. There was also the fact that political
revolution came in 1848. His judgment was tied to the way he defined
take-off as a phenomenon which depended on a certain combination of
the rate of growth and size of the sectors of the economy affected, since
those elements together helped to determine the spreading effects.
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Professor Boudeville asked three questions of Professor Hoffmann.
First, on page 97 of his paper, Professor Hoffmann brought to light the
fact that the urbanization of a peasantry with a low birth rate might mean
lowering down the age of marriage through reduced social pressure and
an increase in birth rates. Were there current examples of this ?
Second, were there any figures on German urbanization before 1815?
Were there statistics of the population of all towns with more than
20,000 inhabitants ? This would be especially illuminating. Finally,
Professor Hoffmann pointed out that German take-off was more clear
cut than the British one. Did he think the take-off observed in a younger
country was likely to be always more obvious than that of the original
and older country? Would the dating of take-off become easier as time
went on because of the advantage of being a latecomer ?
Professor Bentzel thought that the changes in income distribution
caused by take-off were interesting. He was inclined to think that some
change in income distribution was necessary for the beginning, and
especially for the continuance, of take-off. He wondered if Professor
Hoffmann had any information about this.
Professor Gudin thought that in underdeveloped countries the use of
the index of industrialization as a measure of progress could easily lead
to wrong conclusions. For one thing, it was hard to find the right de-
flator; which was Brazil's greatest statistical problem. The use of the
index of the volume of industrial output in an underdeveloped country,
as suggested by Professor Gerschenkron, might induce error because the
rise in industrialization had often taken place at the expense of agri-
cultural output and exports. Also, the adoption of the Manoilesco policy
of high tariffs on industrial imports and high domestic prices led to a
rising percentage of industrial to other output. All these factors made
it unwise to use the index of industrialization.
Professor Neumark said that on page 109 of his paper, Professor Hoff-
mann contrasted the changes of technique in the cotton industry with
the pure rise in demand which he saw as the main feature stimulating the
steel industry. On what data was this based?
Turning to Dr. Fischer's paper, Professor Neumark saiu that on
page 84 it distinguished between the legislative, administrative, and entre-
preneurial functions of the government. In the second group Dr. Fischer
included fiscal policy, to which he returned on page 89. One reason why
Germany did not encourage industry during the whole of the nineteenth
century was that many fiscal measures were aimed, for political reasons,
at helping agriculture. He could not think of any example of fiscal policy
aimed at helping industry during the whole of that period.
Professor Neumark did not think enough attention had been devoted
to a remark made earlier by Professor Hoffmann about the connexion
between religious ideas with industrial growth. The role of religious
thought in economic development was not a subject that was popular
with modern economic historians. But though this was a controversial
question, he thought that if one wanted to learn about nineteenth-century
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
economic development in France and Germany it was necessary to ask
if one of the factors fostering take-off was not religious. Max Weber,
supported by many others, including Tawney and Laufenburger, had
said that among the religious and spiritual ideas which had contributed
to the rise of capitalism were those of puritanism. In many under-
developed countries today, one found strong non-Christian religious
elements that were hostile to development. He thought it very important
to give serious thought to the implications of this difference in religious
beliefs between the nineteenth-century developing countries and most
underdeveloped countries today.
A lot had been said about the 'demonstration effect' of early developers.
In a wider sense, the demonstration effect was linked with Perroux's idea
of the 'dominant economy'. Perhaps what List and his followers had
tried to do was to show competitors what happened if they followed the
U.K. The U.K. was not really hated; admiration for it represented a
demonstration effect.
Professor Landes said that on page 96 of Professor Hoffmann's paper
there was information about the death rate in Germany for the eighteenth
century which showed that it had already fallen to 25 per thousand.
He would like to ask whether Professor Hoffmann had figures for urban
and rural marriage rates. He also wondered whether there was any
information about the difference in the rate of population growth between
people of German and Polish origin. On page 103 there were figures for
gains in productivity in agriculture, but how much of this was in vegetable
products, or was the main gain on the non-vegetable side ? At the bottom
of page 111 there was a discussion of the mechanization of weaving which
stated that wages ultimately rose. Whose wages were these ? In Britain,
the mere threat of substitution of power looms for hand looms drove the
wages of hand-loom weavers down.
The role of the banks in supplying capital had been raised, and he
wondered how far merchant banks gave assistance before 1850. In the
U.K. the idea that the Industrial Revolution was paid for by self-financing
had turned out to be misleading. Considerable ploughing back did occur,
but there was also much short-term financing by the banks. In Germany,
he knew that Krupp had, on several 'Jccasions, borrowed large sums of
money from banks, including French firms. Much of this industrial
borrowing, though resting technically on short-term loans, consisted in
fact of revolving credits that ran almost indefinitely.
On Dr. Fischer's paper, Professor Landes agreed with Professor
Rostow that this was not an explanation of growth, but merely a study
of one aspect of it. It was not surprising that the state had played a
bigger role in Germany than in the U.K. As for its effects, apart from
the period after 1879 when the tariff probably retarded development, he
thought that on the whole the government had fostered growth. It was
hard to give a categorical judgment. To take an area like fiscal policy,
here the effects were both positive and negative. Much of fiscal policy
was aimed at helping landowners, and diverted capital to, or helped
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retain capital in, a sector of lower return. Yet the tax base had been
established earlier to fit an agricultural society, and new forms of economic
activity therefore tended to escape paying their full share.
As for values, it was possible to separate those values conducive to
growth- thrift, diligence, rationality, etc. -from the religious context
with which they were associated in European history. Though Protestant-
ism had been associated with effective capitalism in European experience,
the numerous exceptions made it clear that the relationship was neither
compulsory nor general. To take only one example, the devoutly Catholic
textile manufacturers of Northern France had behaved precisely like
Calvinists out of the pages of Max Weber. There were also strong puritan
(with a small 'p ') elements in Russian behaviour since the Revolution,
and in Chinese behaviour during the last decade. Clearly the ethical
underpinning for these economic virtues could be of different sorts.
Mr. Boserup wanted to make a point on the timing of take-off in
Germany. Professor Gerschenkron had suggested that the importance
of early growth had been exaggerated. He was inclined to agree. On
page 103 he was startled by the figure of 213 per cent for the rise in the
output of animal foods in the period 181~-65. Taken with the data in
Graph 7, this implied a suspiciously high income elasticity of demand
for animal products.
Professor Aukrust supposed that one aim of the meeting was to agree
on a list of the necessary pre-conditions for accelerated growth. There
had been some discussion of the profits from foreign trade helping, and
he wondered if Germany was an instance when this had happened.
Mr. Berrill was surprised that on page 100 Professor Hoffmann should
say what he did about take-off leading to a high rate of population growth,
because the rate had been high throughout. He was also interested to
note that the agricultural-technical revolution came late in Germany, the
agricultural revolution accompanying industrial development rather than
springing from a spontaneous change. Mr. Berrill thought it notable
that the co-existence of large- and small-scale production, in weaving
for example, should have continued for so long. He particularly wondered
why the peasant was able to fare better than the large-scale farmer during
the period of agricultural development, since the paper by Mr. Boserup
on agriculture suggested that the small farmer was defeated early in most
countries.
Professor North was not satisfied with Professor Rostow's defence
of Dr. Fischer. It was necessary to be much more precise. Ideally, one
wanted to be able to show how government intervention in production
had increased growth, but there seemed to be no simple answer. Pro-
fessor Rostow's view was greatly affected by his ideas on the pre-conditions,
with the government removing anticipated obstacles. Economists from
underdeveloped countries were always asking how the government could
help in very precise ways today. Should it invest in railways, in hydro-
electricity, and so on. And it was almost impossible to say how the
government could help best at this moment. He was not saying that
349
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
government intervention did not contribute to growth, but he did not
think it was yet possible to say how it did contribute.
Professor Marczewski wondered about the deflation of the national
income series in Graph 7. On a more general point, while most members
of the Round Table were users of statistics, there were a few makers
as well, including himself. He thought it would be useful to know what
were the best methods to use in order to show rates of growth.
Professor Cairncross said he felt somewhat disconcerted by graphs
which showed more than the text did. Professor Hoffmann's text did
not proceed in terms of total industrial production, although it was shown
in Graph 3. Similarly, he had difficulty in tracing the course of capital
formation either in Graph 7 or in the text. The capital-output ratio figures
in Graph 7 did not begin until too late ; nor did those for the investment
ratio. One needed figures for the investment ratio giving a much longer
view before one could say whether take-off was in 1830, 1840, or 1850.
In the text a 2 per cent rate of growth in consumption was opposed to
one of 6 per cent in capital goods. He did not believe that there could
have been this 3 : 1 ratio which would have implied a very rapidly
rising savings ratio. Could Professor Hoffmann say more about the
savings ratio before 1850 ?
Professor Cairncross said that the economies studied thus far, the
U.K. and the U.S.A., had taken off via consumer goods, while modern
underdeveloped areas were supposed to have taken off via capital goods.
Was Germany an exception to the early cases, a transition to the newer
situation? Were capital goods in the lead? They appeared to be grow-
ing more rapidly in the critical period, but what had happened further
back?
There were several reflections in Dr. Fischer's paper on the role of
science. Germany in the nineteenth century was an instance of modern
science being applied in its modern form. When was science linked to
economic growth in this way? Was it early or late in the nineteenth
century?
Professor Solow wondered whether there really was any marked
evidence of acceleration in Graph 4, except in the case of coal and pig iron.
This acceleration in pig iron had happened in the years 1845-60, and
there had been a boom in 1850-7, so that one could say that the sharpest
acceleration for pig iron appeared to have been cyclical. If one allowed
for the fact that the early figures were unreliable, it was quite possible
that what the pig-iron graph really showed was not acceleration, but
stagnation in the 1840's followed by boom. He was not saying that there
had been no acceleration, but only that it was very easy to see what one
wanted to see in the graph.
Professor Delivanis thought that the nationalization of industries was
only beneficial for economic development when there was some special
factor present. In general, he did not think such industries were very
valuable for economic development. He also wondered whether it was
true that the German banks had been especially helpful to industrial
350
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
development in the period up to 1860. He knew that they had been
after 1870, but was not sure about the earlier period.
Professor Hoffmann regretted that it would not be possible to answer
all the speakers. The role of the banks was an old problem in German
economic history, and he thought that people tended to over-estimate it.
He agreed that after 1870 they had been enormously important in financing
industry, and also that they played a more important role than in the
U.K. or the U.S.A.; but he thought that the influence of the banking
system before 1850 had been very small.
Professor Hoffmann said that figures he had presented to the Corfu
Round Table of the lEA had shown that about 11 per cent of total savings
were handled by banking institutions in the broadest sense. Much of
the remaining savings went into public loans, etc. so that there was no
suggestion that the private banking system was dominant. This helped
to support what he had already said about the small role of the banking
system.
For the pre-conditions period, a new book by W. 0. Henderson had
studied Prussia in the late eighteenth century and gave an excellent answer.
He thought that the book showed that in the various parts of Germany
conditions were very different from those in the U.K. and France; but
Germany was much less unified, and it was very hard to give a precise
answer. Although there were some customs statistics which would give
some information, a great deal of research would be required before one
could say much with confidence about the pre-conditions period.
On national income statistics, Professor Hoffmann said that he had
calculated figures from 1850 to the present from fiscal statistics. Con-
sumption and savings figures gave similar results, as did the statistics of
incomes which were available. He had not so far faced the hard task
of trying to go back yet another 50 years, and though he had made some
rough extrapolations, he would not put much confidence in these. As
for deflation, he had been able to get some fairly good price statistics,
and had made his own estimates from firms' records. The results struck
him as quite good, and it was clear that there had been a long-run inflation
from 1815 to 1848. In the actual deflation, he had used the Laspeyre
method.
There seemed to be a difference of opinion between Professor Rostow
and himself on the timing of take-off. Professor Hoffmann said he had
looked on take-off as preparing for steady growth, and this was the reason
why he put the date earlier than did Professor Rostow. Replying to
Professor Marczewski, Professor Hoffmann said that his 5 per cent
investment quota was a matter of pure guesswork. There were fairly
reliable figures for the 1850's which put it at 7 per cent, and he therefore
thought that 5 per cent was a quite reasonable figure for the 1830's. As
for making the capital-output ratio 3·5, there had been no clear trend
between 1850 and 1873. He was not saying that the ratio had been
constant, because there were variations, but, as a rough estimate, 3·5
seemed very reasonable.
35 1
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
It would be quite possible to work out figures for capital formation
before 1850, but the farther one went back the more precarious the figures
became. He had already been criticized by Professor Kuznets for his
division between consumer and capital goods, so that here he gave the
division only for manufactured goods. For the whole economy, one
needed the investment quota.
The spreading effects of the railways were not great before 1848, but
the railways did unify the country by bringing the regions together for
the first time. This was important in providing unity, even though the
actual mileage of railways constructed was not very large. In reply to
Professor Boudeville, Professor Hoffmann said that figures were in
existence for the birth rate in urban and rural areas. However, he thought
that the importance of urbanization had been overstressed for the Ruhr
in the early stages. The concentration of population in the Ruhr had
started early, and labour had come in from Poland and East Germany.
To Professor Bentzel, Professor Hoffmann said that the income
distribution had become progressively less equal as growth had pro-
ceeded. The only figures he had were for the years since 1850, but he
thought that incomes must have been more equal in the 1830's and 1840's.
Professor Landes had asked a number of questions, and he would answer
as follows. There were figures for death rates in various parts of Germany
in the eighteenth century, as well as for urban marriage rates. The birth
rate in East Germany had been an important social factor, which had
remained important up to 1913. It was difficult to say whether Mr.
Boserup was right in having doubts about the figures for productivity in
animal and vegetable farming, but one had to remember that there had
been considerable substitution of animal for vegetable products.
Professor Hoffmann thought that it was important to remember that
the process of take-off was a sequence process. One had to look to see
how far one industry started it. He had come to the conclusion that the
textile industry started the process in Germany. First, it was simple
in the sense that both the capital and the labour it required were simple.
Second, the demand was there ; the first demand for textiles inevitably
came from well-fed agricultural areas. There was some element of neces-
sity in the nature of the industries which came early and late in the
industrialization process. Finally, he would like to repeat to Professor
Solow that the whole German take-off had been overlain by the cycle.
He nevertheless thought that if one eliminated the effects of the cycle
there was evidence of growth.
Dr. Fischer thought that the question of whether he had exaggerated
the r6le of the German government in take-off was less important than
the fact that he had raised the issue. Whether the government had
played a strategic r6le in Germany was very hard to say, but it certainly
had to play one in modern underdeveloped areas. We had seen that
r6le being played in Russia and Japan. One also had to allow for some
governmental obstruction to growth, but in Germany he thought the net
had been positive. He agreed with Professor Hoffmann that the r6le
35Z
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
of the banks before 1850 had been a very small one, since there had not
really been a banking system until then, only merchant bankers who often
were bankers and industrialists at the same time. But that was the same
situation as in Great Britain.
The crucial point had been raised by Professor North, who had asked
whether it was possible to say that government action had altered the
factors of production. The effects of such action were measurable today,
but not for these early periods. However, there must have been some
effect. The most obvious action was the setting up of the Customs Union,
which was not achieved by a single act, but took several decades (from
1818 to 1884) to create. Dr. Fischer said that he agreed with Professor
Rostow that the job of the government was to create the pre-conditions.
But the decisive thing about Germany was that one could not say whether
the government had done this when take-off began. Take-off could be
put at 1830 or 1850, but some of the pre-conditions such as a banking
system and a good market did not exist until1870. There, the pre-condi-
tions and the take-off could overlap ; and here the overlap was a long one.
Dr. Fischer said that, so far as Professor Neumark's comments were
concerned, fiscal policy had attempted to assist not only agriculture, but
small firms in general had been assisted relatively more than larger ones.
A great deal of economic growth had sprung from this. There had been
no general laws to assist industry, but particular measures to assist specific
firms. For example, up to the 1860's, under the Zollverein, most customs
duties in the import of machinery had been paid back in order to promote
manufacturing industries like textile mills, paper mills, or sugar beet
factories. Similarly, there had been tax privileges for some firms be-
fore 1840.
Dr. Fischer thought that the role of the merchant bankers before
1815 had been the same in Germany as in the U.K. and France. Local
banks were closely connected with small industrialists, and performed a
great deal of short-term financing. But we knew relatively little about
them, and more difficult research would be required. Even in the 1850's,
the few big banks counted for only a small part of the German economy.
Professor Cairncross was not easy to answer on the role of science.
The application of science had begun early in certain fields like sugar,
chemicals, and soda. In the 1820's Prussia established middle-range
technical schools, and other parts of Germany followed in the 1830's
with Polytechnic schools at Karlsruhe, Munich, Hanover, etc. The most
important contribution, however, did not begin until the 1880's, when
the main fields of application had become electricity and chemistry.
Dr. Fischer suggested that there had been several spurts in take-off
in Germany. The first spurt came in the period of the Napoleonic wars
when spinning was first mechanized. The second came in the 1830's,
when the Zollverein was inaugurated, the third in the 1850's when heavy
industry developed, and the fourth in the 1870's. It was hard to say
which of these was the crucial one, but he was inclined to agree with
Professor Hoffmann that it was the one in the 1830's which laid the
353
The Ecorwmics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
foundations for the spurts of the SO's and 70's. In the Napoleonic years
there were only erratic starts which often failed.
SIXTH SESSION
THE DISCUSSION OF THE PAPER
BY PROFESSOR MARCZEWSKI
Professor Landes said that he would like to express the gratitude of
all for Professor Marczewski's presentation, and even more for the work
embodied in his statistical tables. He knew how hard it was to get such
data and was almost overwhelmed by Professor Marczewski's contribu-
tion. Moreover, Professor Marczewski had prepared this remarkable
analysis under the disadvantage of having to work with still-incomplete
material. He would therefore confine his comments to bringing out
problems which Professor Marczewski might like to consider at a later
stage in his work. These comments were not intended as criticisms but
as questions and doubts, which might prove helpful to Professor Marczew-
ski's further investigations and so repay a little of the debt owed for the
windfall all had received in the paper.
Professor Landes said that he would speak essentially as a historian.
He had come to the material as one who had previously looked at French
economic history in terms of qualitative data and such traditional raw
quantitative data as, for example, statistics of production in various
industries. What the Marczewski figures now seemed to show was that
the timing of development was not the same as that suggested by this
earlier material. In particular he was struck by the rapidity of growth
in the early period, 1812 to 1844, all the more so because many French
economic historians assumed that growth was slowed by the long deflation
of the years 1820 to 1840. By way of contrast, Professor Marczewski's
figures (Table 4) showed a slowing down of growth in the 1850's and
1860's. This, too, was surprising, because the later period had been
traditionally looked upon as one of very rapid growth ; indeed the period
of France's most rapid growth, the years when she built her railroad
network, developed new financial institutions, retooled her industry to
meet British competition, and so on.
He had also been struck in Table 4 by the sustained high rate of
growth after 1870, especially between 1875 and 1884. Most of these
years (1875-8 and 1882-4) were ordinarily thought of as depressed. Was
the growth of these years a deceptive consequence of choosing the near
trough of 1875 as a base ? Professor Landes noted that this surprisingly
high rate of growth also appeared in Colin Clark's figures, which seemed
to point to a curious contrast between the historian's traditional picture
and that of the statisticians.
Professor Landes now wondered whether this meant that we must
now revise our views of French economic history or whether there were
354
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
questions we could ask about the accuracy of the figures themselves.
Professor Landes said that he had doubts about some of them. How
accurate, for example, could statistics of national product in the seven-
teenth and eighteenth centuries possibly be ? Then there were Professor
Marczewski's figures of yearly outputs of the silk, wool, and chemical
industries before 1850 ; no official statistics were available ; what were
they based on ? Again there were Professor Marczewski's striking figures
for agricultural growth rates in the eighteenth century. Yet to his know-
ledge there were no statistics at all for agricultural output, and historians
like Labrousse had been compelled to base their work on annual estimates
of the quality of the harvest- on impressions of year-to-year variations
of a standard crop year. Nor were there, to his knowledge, figures for
crop yields, and he wondered how Professor Marczewski had got his
results. Moreover, could one give figures for particular years when only
scattered information was available ? Was this done by some process of
extrapolation or interpolation ?
Professot Landes suggested that the choice of periods was also im-
portant, and that some tables were more informative than others for this
very reason. Table 4, with its decennial periods might be misleading
because it cut across the business cycle in an arbitrary and irregular
manner. Thus, a break at 1850 would probably have been more informa-
tive than one at 1845 or 1854. Perhaps the homogeneous periods in the
nineteenth century were 1815-50, 1850-73 and 1873-96.
Finally, Professor Landes wondered how Professor Marczewski had
corrected his statistics for the inherent bias arising out of the increasing
accuracy and completeness of information over time. In the beginning,
even official data were only guesses. As late as 1840, engineers in the
Direction des Mines noted that for tax reasons the figures of coal output
which the mines gave were too low, and that they themselves had to use
a multiplier on these returns. A fortiori it was hard to see how the figures
for coal output before 1820, when official statistics began, were obtained.
Professor Landes said that, having posed these questions, he would
proceed to some other comments. He thought that the role of the rail-
ways before 1850 had been understated by Professor Marczewski. As
a pure point of information, he wondered whether the figures for depenses
de premier establissement represented total expenses, or only the expenses
of the railway companies themselves, since the state had paid for the cost
of the road bed. Also, since the construction of railways was important
for the development of the iron and engineering industries, he would
himself put more emphasis on the indirect contribution through derived
demand. Professor Marczewski's figures showed that the increase in
mileage was important even before 1850, and some of the most important
metallurgical establishments in France had been built or expanded in
the 1830's and 1840's in response to the demand for rails and the like.
Thus Le Creusot's growth owed much to locomotive orders in the 1840's,
Another question was about urbanization before 1850. He thought
that figures like those in Table 6 were bound to give rather misleading
355
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
impressions because, in the early decades at least, industry was often
located in out-of-the-way areas in order to secure access to water power,
and these places were often technically rural, as they had less than 2000
inhabitants. Very few of the new, purely industrial factory centres-
Roubaix or Elbeuf, for example - could compare in population in the
early decades with the established administrative and commercial centres
of the Old Regime. They simply would not show in statistics for towns
of over 50,000 people.
Professor Landes said that he agreed with Professor Marczewski that
we were not dealing here with something easily separated out into some
kind of take-off period. On the other hand, he was not prepared to give
up the idea of acceleration ; growth was not so continuous as all that.
French economic history showed a stage of preparation in 1815 to 1848,
with the development of mechanized cotton spinning, coke smelting,
puddling and the use of rolling mills, steam engines, and so on. The
diffusion of these techniques had the effect one would expect from the
1840's, with the coming of the railway, and a period of even more rapid
growth ensued in the 1850's and 1860's, when the fruits of this prepara-
tion were reaped. The favourable political and monetary institutions of
the Second Empire were the expression of a new regime committed to
economic growth. Following this, he would expect a slowing down in
the 1870's and especially the 1880's, with a new spurt in the late 1890's.
Concerning this last, he would lay more emphasis on the introduction
of new iron ores in north-east France and an easier money market due to
new supplies of bullion.
Professor Landes did not believe that France had by any means taken
off by 1830. The government had made efforts even before 1789 to
introduce new techniques like spinning machinery and coke smelting,
but these had proved abortive. Similarly, the hothouse arrangements of
the Napoleonic period proved a disappointment. The years 1820-50
would seem more appropriate as the date of France's take-off. In this
regard, it was illuminating to make a comparison with Germany. France
had been in a much better position at the outset, but slower exploitation
of her potentialities had meant that Germany was ahead in railways by
the middle of the nineteenth century and in heavy industry by the
1860's.
Professor Gerschenkron asked for a more exact description of the
weights used by Professor Marczewski in arriving at his aggregate index.
Replying to the questions on statistical sources and methods, Professor
Marczewski said that two phases must be distinguished in the period
he had covered. First, there was the pre-statistical phase which covered
the whole of the eighteenth century and part of the nineteenth. The
series did not begin until 1810 to 1830, but from then on there were
statistics of physical production in many industries. There was admit-
tedly little material on finished products, but quite good data for primary
materials like cotton, steel, coal, etc. He agreed wholly with Professor
Landes that some of these statistics were only doubtfully accurate,
356
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
especially those for agriculture. But he did not think the errors were
large enough to throw doubt on the general orders of magnitude of the
figures he had produced.
Professor Landes had spoken of improvement in the statistics, but
this was not continuous. In some cases, the figures for the middle of
the nineteenth century were as good as those we had today, or even
better. In other cases, the quality of the figures really did improve over
time. It was therefore necessary to apply some correction, and the
difficulty was to determine how big a correction was necessary. However,
he thought that taking decennial averages helped to even out some of
the errors in so far as they were not systematic. On the other hand, the
use of a comprehensive system of co-ordinated accounts was helpful in
discovering systematic errors.
For the pre-statistical period, one could only use the estimates of
contemporary authors. Fortunately, there was a demonstration effect
here. The example of William Petty, Davenant, and Gregory King in
the U.K. was followed in France with a great deal of enthusiasm, and the
result was that there were a number of evaluations of the national product
in the eighteenth century. There was inevitably much vagueness, be-
cause the authors gave no precise statement of the methods they used,
and some merely copied each other. By taking great care, however, it
had been possible to arrive at eighteenth-century growth figures. Only
estimates of physical quantities had been used, and he had tried to extract
all such figures, where these referred to precise physical quantities. With
agricultural produce in the eighteenth century, it was impossible to base
one's statistics on the diverse figures of all the contemporary authors.
With grain production, for example, there were hundreds of very varied
guesses, and all one could do was to eliminate the highest and lowest
and try to strike an average of the remainder. This gave one a figure
for the growth of agricultural output towards the end of the eighteenth
century. In addition, one had some evidence on the increase in the
area of cultivated land. Again, the estimates of contemporary authors
were very varied, but they did give a good indication of the proportion
of land area devoted to each crop in each region. When combined with
the numerous estimates of crop returns this gave one another estimate
of the growth of agricultural output and one which was very close to the
results obtained from looking at the estimates of global output of contem-
porary authors. Nevertheless, Professor Marczewski would not put too
much weight on the eighteenth-century figures, though he thought that
the direct estimates for the nineteenth century could be accepted with a
great deal of faith for the industries that had been studied. The figures
for other industries had been arrived at from the estimates of contem-
porary authors of their share in total production at four or five dates in
the nineteenth century.
On the method of weighting that he had used, Professor Marczewski
said that from the physical output series he had taken out a physical
rate of growth for each industry. This was weighted by value added to
357
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
give a species of chain index - the mean of each rate of growth being
adjusted to values at current prices for the two decades in question. A
major difficulty in using a fixed system of weights was that there were
changes in the relative prices of different goods. Thus, it would be quite
false to use present prices to weight eighteenth-century quantity indices
when industrial goods which were now very cheap necessities had been
luxuries, extremely expensive in terms of agricultural goods.
Dr. Singer was troubled by the relation of the simple and the weighted
average in Tables 7 and 8, and the interpretation of changes in the rela-
tion between the two. A constant relation might mean either of two
things. The industries might be growing at different rates but the faster
growers might have only medium weights. Alternatively, all industries
might be growing at the same rate. The simple average therefore con-
cealed what was really going on, and he could get little of significance
from the ratio between the weighted and unweighted averages. Would
it not be possible to get more useful results by using some index of con-
centration such as the standard deviation, to show whether all growth
rates were similar or whether there was great disparity ? The idea of
take-off implied some concentration. For example, if at a given date
the ten most important industries represented 90 per cent of total value
added and then, some years later, only 50 per ce'nt, this was convincing
evidence of spreading effects.
Professor Solow thought that the unweighted average was always
tricky and dangerous to use, because its size depended very greatly on
how one divided up industries. The division of the economy into dif-
ferent sectors would give one a different average. For example, if one
had two industries, one growing at 10 per cent and the other at 2 per
cent, the unweighted average was 6 per cent. If one then got more
statistics, which enabled one to divide the faster-growing industry into
three sub-industries, each growing at 10 per cent, then the unweighted
average would rise to 8 per cent. Yet the only change was one of the
division of the industries. This was not true of weighted averages ; the
weighted average was a correct overall average. Professor Solow there-
fore thought it important not to emphasize the unweighted average when
one had the kind of spread there was in Professor Marczewski's 42 indus-
tries. Perhaps more sophistication was needed.
Professor Robinson was not sure how the figures in Table 4 were re-
lated to those in Table 8. The second column in Table 4 gave two sets
of figures, the one in brackets being the weighted figure. These weighted
figures were the same as those in Table 8, but the unweighted figures in
Table 8 differed from the unbracketed figures in Table 4. Why was this ?
Professor Marczewski replied that the figures in Table 4 (column 2)
related to the total output of industry and handicrafts. The industries
which there had been no time to study directly had been attached to the
ones studied directly in terms of value added ; figures resulting from the
estimates of contemporary authors. This was where the unbracketed
figure came from. They represented the rates of growth of the total
358
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
industrial product. The figures in brackets were those for the rate of
growth only of the industries that had been studied directly. The last
column but one in Table 4 gave the weight attached to each industry in
terms of its percentage share in total value added. For example, value
added in cotton manufactures (from 1781-90 to 1803-12) represented
8·21 per cent of total output. The final column gave the rate of growth
for each individual industry listed.
Table 8 merely represented an example of the conclusions which
could be derived from a comparison of the simple and the weighted
average. It was only proper to make such a comparison for the 42 indus-
tries studied in detail, though this was not enough for an historical state-
ment on the growth of the total industrial product. The inclusion of
residual industries not shown in Table 8 would modify the three para-
meters considered and this might lead to a change in the economic
interpretation of some periods.
Professor Marczewski agreed with Professors Solow and Singer that
the comparison of weighted and unweighted averages was not a very
sophisticated procedure and that it could be broadened by using other
measures such as the standard deviation. However, this was lengthy
work, and the aim had been to prepare something in time for the Round
Table meeting. But although, for this reason, he had used quick and
simple methods, he had always intended to carry his work considerably
farther.
Professor Rostow said that he wanted to express the excitement and
gratitude which all felt over Professor Marczewski's presentation. What-
ever doubts one might feel over the data where the sources were not
easily accessible, it was clear that French economic history, at least up
to 1850, and perhaps beyond, had moved into a new phase during the
morning's session.
On the main point of substance in the analysis of growth, the difference
between Professor Marczewski and himself was a simple one. In assessing
French evolution, Professor Rostow said that he had decided, as with
Germany and some other countries, that the development of a modern
textile industry for the home market alone did not have a sufficient scale
effect to act as a base for sustained growth. For textiles to serve that
function, the lift which foreign trade gave was also necessary. This was
an arbitrary judgment which led him to deny that the early nineteenth-
century cotton industries in France and Germany would have acted as
leading sectors in take-off. This had been reinforced by later experience.
China and India had both had cotton textile industries supplying the
home market but this market had not been sufficiently large to allow
take-off to occur. Only in England and New England had the develop-
ment of textiles been enough to pull an economy into take-off. There,
due to trade beyond the nation and beyond the region, the scale effects
were apparently sufficient.
This attitude had narrowed his choice in dating take-off to the period
when the whole railway complex had emerged in France and Germany,
359
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
including not only the railways themselves but also the enormous develop-
ments that these brought to the domestic market, and their spreading
effects back to coal, iron, and engineering. Before Professor Marczewski's
paper, only very partial data for France had been available, and within
the limits of this he had considered two possibilities. He had originally
accepted the same view as Professor Marczewski, and had dated take-off
in the 1850's and 1860's, when the development of the railway complex
had been a powerful force. But this left one with the problem of the
'preceding decades' of the 1840's and the 1830's. He wanted to state
the very limited considerations which had finally led him to decide that
the railway-induced take-off could be pushed back as far as the 1830's.
The building of railways had begun then, although the scale of building
was not enormous. More important, from what statistics there were,
and from qualitative data, he had sensed an acceleration in French iron
and coal in the 1830's. There had also been important development in
French heavy industry in the 1840's; there had been the foreign trade
surge in the 1830's, though he would not regard this as crucial. He would
therefore now put the initial date of French take-off in the 1830's, and
he thought it quite clear that after the boom of the 1850's France had
definitely taken off.
To summarise, Professor Rostow said that Professor Marczewski had
not shaken him in his view that the phase of imitation in textiles must
be excluded from what he thought of as the decisive transition. But he
would certainly re-examine with the greatest care the data for the whole
period 1830-70 in the light of Professor Marczewski's statistics, and
especially the disaggregated figures which lay beyond those presented
in the paper.
Professor Marczewski had also given us his vision of the subsequent
evolution of French economic history, in a sense up to the present. The
story we had been brought up on was that after 1870 there was a phase
of deceleration in France, because international growth was heavily centred
on steel, and there France suffered relatively to Germany and the U.S.A.
The late upsurge in the period 1890-1914 was often forgotten. He
wondered whether Professor Marczewski could say more about this.
Was it really true that the main leading sector in the pre-war decades
was in engineering ? He would have thought that there were several
more. There was the emergence of electricity as a new energy source ;
there was the expansion of chemicals ; there was the development of the
North-Eastern ores, which Professor Landes had mentioned. Finally,
since we had been taken into the post-war period, was not the surge in
post-war France clearly linked with the automobile boom in the widest
sense, including the production of sheet steel and oil refining, with the
growth of a modern textile industry based on chemicals, and with elec-
tronics ? He did not want to over-emphasize the later period, but would
like to raise some tentative general questions. Might it not, for example,
be helpful to try to group some of the sectors which were linked, by a
Leontief chain ? For example, the data in Table 4 would be much easier
360
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
to test if individual industries were linked in terms of such connexions.
This would give one a combined weight for the railway, engineering,
and automobile surges. The job of making the classification would be a
hard one because of the need to segregate portions of industrial output,
but such segregation was inevitable if we were to test the hypothesis that
growth was not sustained by rapid expansion in a single sector but by the
development of clusters of related sectors.
Professor Hoffmann noted that in Table 1 the percentage of gross
domestic produce going through the state was roughly constant. But
there must surely have been higher government spending during war.
He could not help feeling that the figure for the late eighteenth and early
nineteenth century was too low. He also wondered how far Professor
Marczeweski had been able to split government expenditures into con-
sumption and investment. If this were done, it would also be necessary
to exclude military expenditure, and he had found this important in his
own studies of Germany.
Professor Hoffmann wondered how the figures for value added were
arrived at in Table 4. The figures for the various branches of industry
must be estimated, since there had not been yearly censuses of manu-
factures. He wondered, too, how depreciation and net investment were
related in Table 2, especially at the beginning of the nineteenth century.
For the nineteenth century, one found that the relation of depreciation
to net investment was 1 : 2. If the capital stock had been low to begin
with, and one guessed that buildings represented 50 per cent of total
capital, then was not depreciation over-estimated relatively to national
income? For the modern economy was one where net investment was
about half of gross.
Professor Hoffmann was interested by the figures for income per head
in Table 10. If one assumed that the ratio between the total and the
employed population remained stable, then this figure represented the
rate of growth of labour productivity. It did not correspond to the figure
for Germany. There labour productivity had grown steadily from the
beginning of the nineteenth century. He also wondered whether Professor
Marczewski could not have given the amount of capital per man. If
one had that as well as labour productivity in value terms, then one had
the capital-output ratio. With labour productivity rising, as it had in
Germany, this enabled one to explain the stability or otherwise of the
capital-output ratio.
Professor North returned to the issue between Professors Rostow and
Marczewski over the relative significance of cotton and the railways for
accelerated growth. His own explanation for the U.S.A. had been like
Professor Marczewski's in the sense that he regarded cotton textiles as
more important in the development of U.S. manufacturing than the rail-
ways. Manufacturing in the U.S.A. was already well established by the
time that the railways became important. Professor Rostow's disagree-
ment with this raised a point of general significance.
He agreed with Professor Rostow that the fall in transport costs had
J6I
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
been important in the nineteenth century, but he did not agree with him
on backward and forward linkages. The railways obviously did have
backward and forward linkages, especially the backward ones to rails,
iron, and steel; so did textiles for that matter. But one other thing was
essential. One must specify that the derived demand must arise in the
same country. Professor Rostow had noted the big acceleration in textiles
in nineteenth-century India, and the fact that India had nevertheless
failed to take-off. But there had also been a rapid development of railways
in India, which, despite being Professor Rostow's favourite, had also failed
to initiate take-off. The point was that in India both textile equipment
and rails had had to be imported. It was not enough merely to establish
an industry in a country ; for take-off one needed to ensure that the derived
demands which it brought were concentrated within the same country.
Professor Aukrust was worried about the question of leading industries.
If one looked at Table 4, one was told that in the first three periods cotton
was important- the leading sector. Yet if one looked at the data for
1788-1812, one saw that the two branches of cotton accounted for only
17 per cent of value added in manufacturing. In the period 1812-35,
this percentage had fallen to 12! per cent and then rose to 13! per cent
in 1835-44. As a matter of simple arithmetic, if a leading sector was one
with a high rate of growth, surely the share of that sector in the economy
should rise. This had not happened with cotton in the periods in question.
On the broader problem, Professor Aukrust said that no one was
impressed by the mere fact that some industries were growing faster than
average. The real issue was the economic significance of this. As he
looked at Table 4 he was much more struck by the growing diversity in
the shares of the various industries than by anything in the shape of
leading industries.
Professor Cairncross asked in what direction the big rise in net invest-
ment in the period 1839-52 shown in Table 2 had gone. The rise appeared
to be almost a fourfold one in total net investment and a tenfold one in
investment in industry and commerce. The rise was very much bigger
than the parallel one in housing, and he had at first thought that the
railway boom might be the reason for it. However, the figures in Table 5
showed that the railways did not account for more than one-third of the
total rise for industry and commerce. Was the remainder accounted for ?
Professor Boudeville asked for qualifications about the French take-off
period. Professor Rostow looked for accelerations in the years 1835-44.
Professor Marczewski stressed that gross capital formation doubled from
6 per cent (1788-1839) to 11 per cent (1839-52). His figures would show
that between 1835 and 1844 (9 years) the rate of growth was 2 per
cent, being 1·5 per cent only from 1825 to 1834. One should indeed
discount the effect of Alsace-Lorraine's loss.
As for leading sectors, pig iron and steel should be stressed. The
rates of growth increased from 3·8 to 5·7 and from 3·6 to 4·5. The
weights increased from 0·8 and 1·9 to 1·0 and 5·6. Cotton slowed down,
although its weight increased. Would not employment data stress also
36a
Hague- Summary Recurd of the Debate
the chemical and paper industries? Would not all this point out to a
real take-off in 1750-60, interrupted for historical and political reasons ?
Would everyone agree that the second take-off came before the railway
boom?
Turning to Table 6, on the growth of population in towns of over
50,000, would the inclusion of towns between 50,000 and 20,000 give
one a very marked rise in the urban population in the years 1835-60?
Professor Marczewski replied to the debate. He st~essed what he had
already said about the work being far from finished. His team had so
far looked seriously only at the data for the growth of agriculture and of
part of industry. The growth of the service trades, of the remainder of
manufacturing, and of national income, consumption, and saving and the
changes in the distribution of national income would have to be studied
later ; all this would take a great deal of time. So he could only give
provisional answers to many ,questions. In two or three years' time he
hoped it would be possible to provide data for the national accounts in
input-output form, but this was not yet possible.
Replying to Professor Landes, Professor Marczewski said that the
depenses de premier etablissement in Table 5 were obtained from the
S.N.C.F., but that these figures had not yet been fully collated. Never-
theless, he could say that they did include the cost of the infra-structure
although, as Professor Landes had said, this was financed by the state
under the law of 1842. He agreed with Professors Landes and Boudeville
that his data for towns of over 50,000 gave only a very imperfect view
of the process of urbanization. He would even go so far as to suggest
that it would be useful to study the growth of towns of four or five
thousand. But he had not yet gone far in his analysis of urbanization.
The figures given in Table 6 were purely illustrative, but he hoped at a
later stage, especially in connexion with the study of consumption, to
look further into the question of urbanization, and he might then get
more precise results. The figures for Paris in the early nineteenth century
showed an extraordinary growth.
Professor Marczewski agreed with both Professors Landes and Rostow
that the period of the Second Empire was one of rapid growth, and above
all of an extraordinary transformation of social life in France. In charac-
terizing take-off, Professor Rostow emphasized qualitative factors and
therefore put take-off in the period of the July monarchy and at the
beginning of the Second Empire. The quantitative figures did, how-
ever, show a marked acceleration in growth already in 1800-40 and another
in about 1850-66.
As for the propagation effects of railways and cotton, he had here only
studied the progress of these industries themselves. He had looked at
the effect of the development of railways on industries like iron, but not
at the wider spreading effects, which one could not study without input-
output information. Yet the very rapid development of cotton, which
had grown at the rate of more than 5 per cent per annum at the begin-
ning of the nineteenth century, could not be neglected. Cotton had
363
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
considerable weight in the economy and led to the development of other
industries. For example, spinning and weaving were almost entirely
mechanized .by 1831, well before the other textile industries. As Miss
Deane had explained, there were demonstration effects on other textile
trades, but cotton had a much bigger effect on the economy than silk,
although silk itself had played a big part in the development of the town
of Lyons. He did not deny the substantial effects of the development of
railways in France, but this had ocurred after 1850. He thought that
his real difference with Professor Rostow was over the choice of criteria
for characterizing take-off.
Professor Landes had been surprised by the rapidity of growth in the
early nineteenth century. He had been equally surprised himself, but
this was what the figures showed. As for why traditional historians
had not caught this rapid growth, he thought the answer was that they
had, especially as it concerned the July monarchy. All the history books
in France pointed to the large-scale industrial development under Louis
Philippe. But there was less on the years 1800-30. The reason was
partly that historians had been forced to stick to qualitative data,
because of the lack of figures. Given the small weight of industry in
the whole economy at the beginning of the nineteenth century, this
minimal importance of industry could easily blind the historian to the
fundamental importance of its growth for the economic development of
the country. By the time of the Second Empire, however, industry was
much bigger, and growing rapidly. There was the spectacular growth
of railroads, and the movement towards urbanization which had trans-
formed Paris under Haussmann caught the imagination. The banks and
the banking system were also being developed. These were changes
which the historians could not possibly ignore.
Professor Landes had expressed some doubts over the time periods
chosen. The first task was to measure the rate of growth. This required
a constant period, and the simplest one for purposes of calculation was
one of ten years. He agreed with Professor Landes that it would be
interesting to re-work the figures taking five-year and one-year periods
which would enable one to study turning points and the cycle. All this
was in his proposed programme, but would not be completed easily or
quickly.
Professor Hoffmann had asked about state expenditure, and the
answer was that the figures in Table 1 were taken from the budgets.
This had been done rapidly, and he had not tried to split the figures into
categories. The next step would be to split the figures into payments
to persons and for material. He would also like to make it clear that
the statistics included nothing for the expenditure of local authorities.
The figures for capital formation were estimates made by the authors of
the time and were not strictly comparable with the figures for national
product. In calculating depreciation, he had tried to split up capital
into a few broad categories of fixed assets, and to apply what seemed to
be logical depreciation rates for each particular category.
364
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
Professor Hoffmann had put forward an argument about productivity
which assumed that there was a constant relation between the active and
the total population. This assumption was not correct for France. The
active population had not increased between 1851 and 1938, a fact which
was explained by the ageing of the population.
Professor Marczewski agreed with Professor Rostow about the role of
electricity, chemicals, and iron in the last two decades of the nineteenth
century. His tables showed a high rate of growth for both iron and
chemicals. He had not yet made any calculations for electricity, save as
part of the residual. The residual industries inevitably grew rapidly,
since he had taken as his starting point the industries actually in exist-
ence at the beginning of the nineteenth century. All the industries de-
veloping later were inevitably small, new and often rapidly growing ones.
This led to the important question of how to make the division into
sectors. He agreed that the division into groups of industries could affect
the numerical rate of growth although, theoretically, it should not change
the total of values added. This made it very important to study the
division carefully and make the correct one. He agreed with Professor
Rostow's point about grouping together linked industries and this was
one thing he intended to do. We all knew that the division into sectors
was important for all those who constructed input-output tables, be-
cause the problems of complementarity and substitution were involved.
Professor Cairncross had underlined the importance of capital forma-
tion in the industrial sector in the first half of the nineteenth century.
In estimating capital formation, one only had rather imprecise estimates
to work with, and it was hard to judge these, because their authors had
not explained precisely what methods they had used. For industry, the
main information had come from Stock Exchange figures for capitaliza-
tion. He acknowledged that these methods were very imprecise and
that they almost certainly exaggerated the growth of capital formation
in the early years of the development of the Stock Exchange. But he
thought that it was not unusual to find rapid increases in industrial capital
in the first half of the nineteenth century. He suspected that the growth of
the textile industry, and of the chemical industry, had been an important
reason for the big use of capital, but he had yet to make a detailed study.
Professor Boudeville had said that there had been much growth in
the paper, chemical, and metallurgical industries in the period 1835-44,
and he agreed. The chemical industry had exhibited a high growth rate
before 1845, but had not been shown in Table 4 for the periods before
1845 because it had too low a weight. Paper was not one of the industries
separated out from the residual, but its rate of growth had also been high.
Metallurgy had been mentioned in his paper and had a very respectable
rate of growth. However, it was not correct to suggest that the three
industries were as important as Professor Boudeville had suggested. The
textile trades had by far the biggest weight.
Professor Aukrust had suggested that the weights varied in an unusual
way. It was always possible that there might have been an error in the
J6S
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
computation, but apart from that, the part which an industry played in
the total value added was determined not only by the physical rate of
growth of the output of the industry but also by prices. It had to be
remembered that industrial prices had behaved very strangely, and that
although they had fallen twice during the century, they had not fallen
equally for all products. The textile industries had also been affected by
the U.S. civil war. There had been a big rise in the price of cotton, and
such price changes helped to explain apparent aberrations in the move-
ment of the proportions of value added in certain industries.
SEVENTH SESSION
THE DISCUSSION OF PROFESSOR TSURU'S PAPER
AND PROFESSOR DUPRIEZ'S EXPOSITION OF
BELGIUM'S TAKE-OFF
Professor Tsuru was unable to attend the conference, and Professor
Rostow presented the paper for him. Professor Rostow said that he would
like to warn participants that he was in no way qualified to replace Pro-
fessor Tsuru, particularly since he could only read the Japanese literature
in translation. He would first like to present his view of the timing of,
take-off in Japan. He had originally had some doubts as to whether the
period 1878 to 1885 was the pre-conditions or not, but had decided that
it was the pre-conditions period, with take-off accomplished by 1914.
He now thought that this dating should be pushed forward, with take-off
initiated by the marked expansion of the late 1880's.
In his paper, Professor Tsuru gave a condensed summary of what
had happened before 1868, with Japan's responses to the challenge of
the West. Even before the Opium wars and the opening of the ports
in the 1850's, there were signs of' endogenous strain'. Japanese society
showed many of the symptoms of a traditional society reaching the limits
of its powers of expansion. There was a problem of the balance between
population and land resources. There were signs of strain as the move-
ment on to new land failed to meet the increased demand for food, and
the failure to change agricultural techniques led to infanticide and unrest.
A second problem was the institutional framework. There was a system
of enforced residence at the Court by the feudal class. A type of Parkin-
son's Law increased the size of this court establishment and the cost was
borne on a regional basis.
Third, there was social strain, especially around the position of the
Samurai. During times of peace, this warrior group held an intermediate
position, close to that of the nobility, they often managed estates and were
particularly eager to acquire Western knowledge. Fourth, the limitations
of the transport system were keenly felt and the emergence of a national
grain market to deal with the court problems led to th{. growth of a
merchant class. This caused friction, with the merchants in the common
J66
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
pos1t1on of being the richest in society and yet being accorded little
formal social esteem. They nevertheless began to intermarry with the
low nobility, and this, plus the mingling of the Samurai and the sending
of their sons for education abroad, broke down the rigidity of the system.
With all this there was the threat from the West in the 1850's and
the Revolution of 1868 was an occasion when modernizing elements
succeeded in ousting the old regime and restoring the Emperor. The
remainder of the elite came, in painful stages, to accept modernization as
inevitable if problems of territorial independence and increasing social
strain were to be dealt with. So the national government took responsi-
bility for the pre-conditions with a policy of seeking knowledge of the
world, a simpler language, and so on.
Like Britain, but unlike the U.S.A. and Russia, Japan could establish
cheap transport because of the role of coastal shipping. Foreign trade
was expanded with the development of new export sectors like silk, and
by import substitution ; cotton textile production was expanded to re-
place British imports. In agriculture, the results of land reform were
remarkable, transferring rents to the state and giving it the resources
required to build up social capital. Feudal bondholders were forced by
inflation into a position where they either suffered hardship or moved
into the modern sector. The system of land reform also encouraged the
peasants to engage in more intensive agriculture. Finally, the state took
direct responsibility for developing industry. This list of actions which
the Japanese government took to bring about the necessary pre-conditions
was not unlike the agenda of an intelligent government in an under-
developed area today.
In the early 1880's, a cadre of private entrepreneurs emerged, with
the Samurai leading the way in industries like coal, armaments, and
shipping. There was also a joint-stock company boom and a great surge
in cotton textiles. This was why he would now date take-off in the
middle 1880's. Two major events during this phase were the ending of
the political struggle with the traditional classes in 1878 and the ending
of domestic inflation.
Nevertheless, Professor Rostow did not suggest that activity in estab-
lishing the pre-conditions ended then. Education, commerce, and foreign
trade continued to receive attention. But the structure of the economy
had oeen altered sufficiently for the first big industrial surge to take place.
Professor Fischer had suggested in conversation since the discussion on
Germany that a minimum degree of pre-conditioning was the basis for
take-off; but one might find, as take-off proceeded, that certain defici-
encies in the framework of the economy were beginning to have their
effect, and one might have to vary the effort devoted to the pre-conditioning
process as time went on. Much would depend on how long and intensive
the pre-conditioning process was. In contemporary India, for example,
the fate of the industrial sectors still hinged on the further development
of foreign trade and of agriculture.
Pr~fessor Rostow explained that this brought him to a major
367
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
difference with Professor Tsuru, similar, in a sense, to the controversy
over movement of real wages in the U.K. during the industrial revolution.
The issue was made explicit by the footnote to page 16 of his own paper,
and by statements on pages 148-9 in Professor Tsuru's. The question
was whether Japanese growth was built on stagnant real wages, or whether
increases in productivity were rapid enough to allow high savings con-
currently with a rise in popular consumption. Professor Tsuru and he
did agree that the crux of the issue lay in the course of agricultural pro-
ductivity and output and in the size and distribution of supplies of
textiles. It was so easy to indulge in abstract debates about rates of
consumption and investment, forgetting that food and clothing were the
main elements of consumption at the take-off stage.
Professor Rostow said he agreed that the commutation of rent pay-
ments gave no relief to tenants who sold out and also that the effects of
the land tax were mitigated by rises in productivity or by inflation, since
it was payable in kind. He thought it probable that there was a rise in
total agricultural output per family after the land reform. Though Pro-
fessor Tsuru did not discuss it, he thought that this was partly the
incentive effect of the new tax and rent burden. Incomes were also
supplemented by some workers moving into industry. Finally, it was
clear that there was a rise in the real incomes of peasants as early as the
1890's, so that the only question was of what happened in the interval
between land reform (in 1873) and 1890.
These were complex and difficult changes and had significantly dif-
ferent results in the various regions. In the U.K. it was a case of com-
paring changes in urban and rural standards of living in different regions.
In his paper (pp. 146-7) Professor Tsuru suggested that the essential
features of the problem were that the severest burden fell on the agricul-
tural sector, with increased productivity leading either to a bigger surplus
for landowners and merchants or to relatively lower agricultural prices.
Since there was no evidence, Professor Rostow was prepared to accept
this for the period 1873-90, but he did want to ask some questions. First,
did the statement refer to all peasants or only to tenants ? Second, with
the given tax and rent structure, why did food producers not benefit
from the inflation after 1873 ? Third, given the Okhawa figures for
real incomes in agriculture, how was the surplus over previous levels of
consumption tapped by landowners and by the state ? Fourth, he won-
dered how the figures for the real wages of peasants and industrial workers
were assembled. This would help in terms of the general debate.
Professor Rostow said he would not go beyond these general ques-
tions, and he thought that too much should not be made of them. Part
of the pace of industrialization in Japan depended on the ploughing
back into industry of a surplus over and above traditional standards.
The extent to which Japan succeeded in harmonizing the old traditional
society with the demands of new industrial processes should not be mini-
mized. Nevertheless he would refer participants back to the footnote on
page 16 of his own paper.
368
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
In Japan, the existence of cheap coastal shipping cut the bill for
social overhead capital so that some rise in popular consumption accom-
panied the early stages of Japanese industrialization. But he did not
want to be dogmatic about this- especially in Professor Tsuru's absence,
and this was the issue which Professor Tsuru regarded as very important.
Other important questions were the role of foreign trade ; the crucial
role of the joint stock companies ; and whether one could legitimately
describe as capitalism a process where the state played so important a
role. Professor Rostow said that he had put together certain supplement-
ary material relating to Japan. He would like to say that the main
criterion for his choice was simply the maximum number of tables that
could be made available in the time. He had tried to show which were
the most important sectors.
Mr. Berrill said that though he was not an expert on Japan he had
been interested at the lEA Round Table in Gamagori, to listen to the
views of Japanese scholars on the finance of net investment during take-
off. One question raised at Gamagori had been whether the Arthur
Lewis 10 per cent savings ratio had been reached. The consensus of
opinion had been that this had not been necessary in Japan because she
had been able to economize in investment, in transport, and in housing.
Investment had only shown a small rise, and the investment ratio had
remained low.
Turning to the role of the Japanese government, Mr. Berrill said
that it was true that one could look at the list of the things which the
Japanese government had been doing and say that they had been the
right things. But, if one asked how successful they were in doing these
things, the answer was rather unsuccessful. The Japanese government
had proceeded in a highly empirical style and there was hardly a plant
that it had set up which had not had to be subsidized for years, and
thankfully handed over to private enterprise as soon as this was possible.
One had to remember that what the government said it was doing was
not the same as what it did effectively.
Japan had also inherited a social structure which could advance
quickly. Beside the tradition of skilled handicrafts, Japan had the young
Samurai who were able to become good entrepreneurs. He was not
saying that the countries which had taken off had lacked these things,
but only that they were present in greater measure in Japan. The tradi-
tional handicraft industries had expanded alongside the more modern
industries right up to 1900, partly because of lower wages. It was always
possible for Japan to expand by pulling resources from small- to large-
scale industrj. Professor Robinson supported Mr. Berrill in his impres-
sion of the Gamagori meeting. The low Japanese investment ratio was
not only a result of a transport system that required little capital, but
also of the low investment per head in housing. This meant that an
abnormally high proportion of investment was productive. Another point
was that so much of Japan's development had been subservient to her
military ambitions, for example, the early growth of her steel industry.
369
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
As these resources became adequate for military needs, they were turned
over to private enterprise on very favourable terms. This gave private
enterprise an unusually favourable start.
Professor Robinson said that he had come away from Japan feeling
that the feudal compensation process had two sides. It had released
peasant agriculture from its obligations in the way that Professor Tsuru
had outlined. At the same time it had diverted a vigorous and energetic
military caste from its feudal limitations and put it into a situation in
which the low compensation payment encouraged a move into industry.
The incentive was that it was necessary to work successfully if poverty
were to be avoided.
On foreign trade, Professor Robinson said that Professor Nurkse had
tried to debunk foreign trade as a leading factor in Japan, and he thought
that Nurkse had done less than justice to Lockwood's caution on this
score. Lockwood's analysis was more favourable to the effect of foreign
trade on productivity and wealth and was based on statistics of produc-
tion, productivity, and foreign trade. The argument was that since
production had risen more than foreign trade, it was clear that the home
market was buoyant. However, the statistics were only for large firms
and it was quite possible that production as a whole had risen less and
not more than foreign trade.
The ratio of foreign trade to national income had been increasing
through the whole period of take-off, from 4 per cent in 1882 to 8 per
cent in 1892 and 11 per cent in 1902. So foreign trade had been favour-
able to take-off, making it easy for Japan to import machinery and food-
stuffs, with no problem of trying to sustain take-off against a declining
export ratio. He thought that Professor Tsuru was right to attach so
much importance to exports.
Dr. Singer thought that there was little difference between Tsuru and
Rostow on agricultural productivity. First, Professor Tsuru had pointed
out that falling agricultural prices had swallowed up the rise in pro-
ductivity. The internal terms of trade for farmers had been correspond-
ingly worsened, and it was quite possible for agricultural productivity
to rise while the standard of living fell. Another element noted by Pro-
fessor Tsuru was that productivity did improve, for instance, through
the better use of the labour of the family, but that there was no improve-
ment in the technology of agriculture as such. It was therefore important
to distinguish between productivity in the sense of basic techniques and
in the wider sense of the efficient use of the available resources.
Although Professor Rostow had suggested that there was no need to
be pessimistic about the need for a fall in farm standards of living as a
necessary symptom of take-off, Dr. Singer did not see that there was
any reason to be optimistic either. If net investment had to double then
this was bound to take resources from consumption. It was true that in
agriculture itself the capital-output ratio was low, so that the capital needs
of other sectors were not likely to starve agriculture of capital ; but though
investment in agriculture might be cheap it would not necessarily be
370
Hagtu - Summary Record of the Debate
easy. It would also always take time, since attitudes would have to be
changed.
Professor Delivanis thought that when Japanese economists spoke of
the modesty of investment in Japan during take-off they were not anxious
to mention the investments which had been made in countries which it
was hoped to develop as colonies or as dependent territories. He had
found a mentality in Japan like that in inter-war Germany, where the
commercial banks were allowed to operate at the expense of the central
bank, which often applied primitive measures of exchange control. He
had been impressed by the low income per head in Japan, which was
more like Southern Italy than the rest of Western Europe, both in terms
of income per head and the surplus of unskilled labour. This was accom-
panied by old-fashioned social legislation. The very bad roads in Japan
reminded one that the country relied on coastal shipping and the railways.
The intensity of agricultural production was interesting, but there was no
alternative.
Professor Gudin wondered what one could learn from Japan that
would assist development elsewhere. He thought one could learn little
because of the system of semi-slavery in Japan. Professor Gudin said
that no democratic country could resort to these methods, but he be-
lieved that the enormous progress of Japan could not be explained without
taking into consideration the existence of a real civilization before 1868.
Without this the country would not have been able to do what it did
in forty years. The fundamental qualities of the human element were
already there.
Professor Cairncross said he had understood that there had been a
rise in agricultural productivity after 1870 and this contradicted Professor
Tsuru who said, on page 140, ' It is doubtful if physical productivity per
land-area for any particular crop-product rose in any significant measure
before the decade of the 1890's'. He had understood that output per
acre had risen even if output per worker had not. The paper gave no
indication of the extent to which land reform led to the creation of financial
intermediaries. But it seemed to have had profound effects in the sense
that financial deals were made easier. For example there were statistics
on page 150 showing the big rise in the turnover of corporate shares rela-
tively to government bonds. There were no figures for the actual turn-
over in bonds ; did it also increase ?
Professor Cairncross suggested that, if one looked back over the last
200 years, the main reason why more savings were required now was to
finance investment in power and transport. Capital-output ratios did
not alter much except in these fields, and one reason why Japanese take-off
had required little capital might be that there had been no power and
transport revolution. Capital had not been needed by modem industry
until much later. But this raised a problem of definition. He had always
thought that for Professor Rostow, take-off implied that the break-through
to modem industrial methods using mechanical power and transport had
already been made. This was certainly not true of Japan in the 1880's.
371
The Ec01Wmics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
Professor Ku:mets quoted estimates for capital formation in Japan in
the period since 1887, produced by Professor Henry Rosovsky of the
University of California. The proportion of net rational capital forma-
tion to NNP at current prices was 6·4 per cent for the period 1887-96.
This excluded military investment, which would raise the figure to
7·7 per cent. Mter this the ratio declined, but remained within the
range of 6-7 per cent up to 1914. During World War I it rose to 10 or
11 per cent. The gap between the figures with and without military
spending had widened, with the non-military figure still only about
11 per cent by World War II, but the inclusive figure about 20 per cent.
In general, then, it was true that net investment proportions, and there-
fore net saving proportions, were about 5 or 6 per cent during take-off
and did not rise to 10 per cent until1914.
On the general question of the relation between net capital formation
and consumption during take-off, he did not see why a rise in the savings
ratio from 5 to 10 per cent should impoverish consumers. Since con-
sumption represented 80 or 85 per cent of national income, the loss of
5 per cent would not put any serious pressure on consumption at a time
when income per head was rising. The only bad effects might be those
of the redistribution of income, and he saw no justification for Professor
Tsuru's remarks about the severe burden falling on the agricultural
sector.
Mr. Mathur, taking a view different from Professor Gudin's, felt that
underdeveloped countries could learn a lot from the Japanese take-off.
First, the low real wage rate in Japan during the take-off had made a
high rate of surplus possible. This had not, according to Professor
Tsuru, resulted in a fall in the peasant's standard of living, but only in
his not gaining from the take-off. Mr. Mathur was not suggesting that
a fall in living standards should take place, but he did think that it might
be possible to prevent the real wage from rising for two or three initial
five-year plans. For instance, even a fall in the standard of food-grains
consumption over the past forty years had been endured by the Indian
peasant without much complaint. Further, it would be sensible to keep
the real wage per man employed constant, while there was considerable
non-employment and a high rate of growth of population in order to
distribute the additional benefits more widely. The urban industrialist
could also count on the low and constant wage rate to assure him a large
surplus. Some plans of underdeveloped countries did not allow for
this, simply because they followed the lines of some Western countries
where real wages had risen as industrialization proceeded.
Professor Aukrust said that if a country had a net investment ratio of
6-7 per cent this implied an annual rise in the capital stock of some
3 per cent, if the capital-output ratio were 2. How, then, could one
explain the explosive growth of Japan ? He thought that one would have
to use the Solow-type analysis of the 'residual' which required one to pay
more attention to shifts in the production function brought about by
innovation. But this, in turn, implied that Japan had experienced big
372
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
technical changes, and as he had listened to Mr. Berrill he felt he had
got confirmation that these had taken place. Japan already possessed
the latent resource of an educated population, and once the international
isolation ended there was an explosive rise in output. This bore on
Professor Rostow's arguments, because once it was admitted that capital
was less crucial than human beings, one could have take-off without a
rise in investment. It was only natural that where one got this rapid
change in technology there would be induced investment, but one might
confuse cause and effect if one thought of investment as conditioning
take-off. The key factor might be a human response, with the rise in
investment following later.
Professor Kuznets stated that the annual overall rate of growth of
gross national product in constant prices in Japan between 1887 and
1940 had been between 4 and 5 per cent, with population growing at a
little over 1 per cent. Income per head had therefore risen at about
3 to 4 per cent per annum. The share of capital formation had risen
from 5-6 to 13-14 per cent. If these figures were correct, there had
been a big rise in consumption per head. Who had benefited ? The
agricultural population must have been a big percentage of the total,
since it still accounted for about 40 per cent now. He could not believe
that such a substantial rise in income per head could fail to have increased
the living standards of so big a proportion of the population. Moreover,
the rate of growth was as high as this from the very beginning and was
attained with a very low capital-output ratio, perhaps about 1·9. This
was possible because of a backlog of technical changes and an unusual
combination of capital and labour.
Professor Neumark thought that perhaps modern underdeveloped
areas could learn more from Japan than from the other countries studied
so far because, as was said on page 143, compared with other capitalistic
countries 'a generally inflationary trend is marked throughout the period
of industrial development in Japan '. The European countries had not
suffered marked inflation during the pre-conditions or take-off, and per-
haps Japan was more like modern underdeveloped countries. Wa<J the
lesson that it wa<J right to assist industrial development by allowing some
inflation through easy money and low interest rates ? The bigger role of
the government might lead in this direction too. Would Professor Rostow
accept this distinction ?
Dr. Fischer noted that Japan had no tariff unti11899. What happened
after that ? Was the tariff high or low ; and was Japan like Switzerland,
which had succeeded in developing with a very low one ?
Professor Robinson said that Professor Aukrust's point had already
been made by Professor Cairncross. The high capital-output ratios in
Europe were largely dictated by investment in public utilities and he
would guess that capital-output ratios in Eastern industry varied between
0·25 and 0·5. This anticipated the Cairncross paper on the role of capital
in take-off, and Japanese experience supported the conclusion that only
a part, say 25 per cent, of progress was a result of increased capital inputs.
373
The Economics of Take-of! into Sustained GrO'UJth
Professor Kuznets thought that differences between Europe and Japan
in the amount of investment devoted to non-industrial capital formation
were being exaggerated. Of total gross fixed capital formation in Japan,
housing took between 10 and 25 per cent between 1887 and 1906. Public
construction took about 30 per cent, and the share of the government in
non-military capital formation averaged about 40 per cent. Much of
this went into things like railways, schools, public utilities, and so on,
all of which usually had high capital-output ratios. He did not think
that the Japanese success in getting so high a rate of growth of output
from so little capital could be explained in terms of the physical composi-
tion of capital formation.
Professor Cairncross wondered what period the percentage breakdown
of fixed investment related to. He did not see how a 5 per cent savings
ratio could give one a growth rate of 4-5 per cent per annum.
Professor Kuznets replied that the share of the Japanese government
in fixed capital formation had been between 34 per cent and 49 per cent
from 1887-1936, even excluding military investment.
Professor Rostow explained that the Japanese railways were notably
small-scale and of short gestation period. They linked existing centres,
so that the return in ton-miles of traffic came rapidly. His own sense
of the situation was that, aside from the railways, Japan had put relatively
little capital into heavy industry ; it was to the labour intensity of agri-
culture and industry that one must look for the reasons for a take-off
so relatively cheap in capital. And this was most instructive for under-
developed areas. Japan had earned her foreign exchange from silk ex-
ports - a labour-intensive industry using modern methods of quality
control. Japan had also, as no other developed country had done, evolved
a dual industrial structure that had come down to very modern times -
even in complex fabricating industries. Components used in modern
factories were made in the villages by labour intensive methods.
Professor Rostow said that he would like to see more evidence on
Mr. Berrill's charges that the government had been inefficient in its
attempts to induce take-off. There was ample evidence that the initial
handling of the situation by the bureaucrats had been clumsy, but per-
haps their efforts had been more successful in other directions. They
had successfully eliminated internal barriers, and the spread of popular
education went fast and well. It was something of an achievement to
have handled the railway boom so soon after the escape from feudalism.
A remarkable thing was that the history of Japan, an island off Asia,
gave her the same sort of national unity that Britain developed standing
off a threatening Europe. This had happened in Japan without bloody
civil war and gave a national unity that allowed a prompt modernization
which China was denied.
On foreign trade, it might be worth distinguishing two effects. First,
a
the pure market argument la North where a large market provided
economies of scale. This had certainly happened in silk and textiles
generally. Second, the role of enlarged exports in providing necessary
374
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
imports of raw materials and machinery. The latter effect was particularly
important in Japan.
Turning to Mr. Mathur's points about agriculture in India, Professor
Rostow said that the difficulty might not be so much the lack of local
credits as the need to mobilize men with technical knowledge to go and
demonstrate new techniques in the villages, and especially to spend long
enough in each village to make some impact. He did not think peasants
would resist demonstrably good methods, but that when such big changes
were being suggested a convincing demonstration was necessary.
Professor Rostow said that he could quote cases where development
had been successful both with and withQut inflation in the country. In
some cases, inflation caused changes in income distribution which moved
capital into production. In other cases, these same income changes
could stimulate the kind of investment that was not conducive to growth.
He did not think that any systematic relationship could be discovered
between inflation and growth in its early phases.
Mr. Berrill commented that national unity was very much a twentieth-
century idea and not one from the nineteenth. Clans were very important
in Japan up to 1900, and while national unity had subsequently developed
the first take-off was not based on it.
Professor Dupriez gave an exposition of the Belgian take-off. He
stressed that he had no statistics with him but that the conclusions he
would present were nevertheless based on historical series that were more
complete than for many countries. This was largely because Belgium
had been lucky enough to have Puchet as head of the Belgian statistical
department. The many series for employment, industrial production, and
prices allowed one to go beyond a purely qualitative assessment of Belgian
take-off. Professor Dupriez said that he had analysed many of these
figures in his Mouvements economiques generaux and had found that they
often fitted a logistic curve ; though with shorter spans the exponential
fitted better. His views rested also on the work of some twenty or more
of his students who had, since 1930, studied industries like coal, coke,
zinc, textiles, and agriculture and, more recently, individual firms.
These studies had shown that behind the regular and general develop-
ment of the economy, particular industries developed more irregularly
and under the influence of fluctuations. The regular development of the
economy turned out to be a story of specific developments in particular
industries and firms at different moments. Taking the term take-off in a
commonsense way, it was hard to date it for Belgium. The central period
had been in the years 1835-48. In those years there was the sudden
development of heavy industries, complementary in a large degree, but
all heavy, and therefore in the primary and secondary stages of production.
This was a period of laissez-faire, and development took place through
medium-sized companies. Their entrepreneurs had some idea of what
to exploit, but their knowledge was by no means scientific.
Why did he date take-off in 1835-48? Professor Dupriez said that
in the earlier period the main developments had been in textiles, as in
375
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
the U.K. before, but under difficult conditions. During the continental
blockade spinning machines had been imported from Britain, but this
had been dangerous. Spinning and weaving had been mechanized, but
these were largely domestic industries located in Flanders and using
surplus agricultural labour in Malthusian surroundings. Weaving was
complementary to agriculture, but there were no backward linkages.
There was no agricultural machinery industry - only imports of machines
from England ; that industry had only been set up since 1945. So,
textile development was rather isolated, and there was no substantial
take-off.
The first coke ovens were built in 1829 to establish a metal industry,
and the first railway was built in 1835. Before that, thinking had been
in terms of charcoal and canals, but with the boom of the 1830's develop-
ment really began. Between 1848 and 1870 development was substantial.
A financial organization was developed under French influence, and local
financing took place early in Liege and Hainault. The number of firms
grew greatly in this period, and after 1870 Belgium was definitely an
industrial society.
The problem of take-off had little to do with population numbers.
Industry made up only a small portion of the general economy, so that
development became a question of developing the wage fund. In 1830
it was estimated that 30 per cent of the population was workless and
there was consequently a large work force to draw on. This raised the
question of the influence of industrialization on the welfare of labour.
Was there pauperization in the early period of industrialization ? He
thought that no one really knew. The first industrialization had reduced
the numbers in the workhouses and therefore probably improved their
condition. But it also destroyed some protected trades whose workers
presumably suffered. There was certainly pauperization in Flanders
where there was only a textile industry that had no lateral effects. There
was no pauperization in the industrial regions, but it was uncertain
whether the workers were better off in 1848. If one looked at social
conditions, industry had made a positive contribution. Belgium was the
only continental country not shaken by the 1848 revolution and this
implied that social conditions had improved. There was also no emigra-
tion from Belgium to the U.S.A. after 1848, and from 1850 wages began
to rise. This rise in real wages took place just as J. S. Mill was develop-
ing the wage fund theory for the last time. Professor Dupriez thought
the position could be made more precise by considering marriage rates.
Up to 1848 there was a strong negative correlation between the marriage
rate and com prices. The country as a whole was an agricultural one.
Industry only was in the take-off stage and represented only a small
proportion of the national output. The main shift from agriculture to
industry was between 1848 and 1870. From then on, there was a strong
positive correlation between the marriage rate and iron output.
Some British entrepreneurs brought capital into Belgium, but not
very much. They played a major role in starting industrialization, but
376
Hague - Summary &cord of the Debate
they were mainly craftsmen, and their main role was that of catalysts.
There were enough entrepreneurs within Belgium to continue expansion.
Liege, for example, had a long tradition of work in the metal industries.
But it was soon necessary to develop beyond the stage where the entre-
preneur was a strong man with little education, and an educational system
was developed.
Government intervention was not important to industrialization at
the beginning. The growth of Saint-Simonian influence helped to de-
velop financial institutions in the 1880's, and also secular expansion of
1850 to 1870. But most development was purely individual, except for
the railways ; the first railways were built by the government. After
1845, however, all new railways were private.
The real basis for development was coal, and all the rest carried
forward from it. The coal industry itself was operating under increasing
returns up to 1886. The iron industry was under the strain of necessary
change, because the use of coke ovens meant a move away from the forest
areas. A recent study had shown that up to the present Belgium had
been subjected to repeated changes in production functions in terms of
quantity of factor, type of factor, and quality of product. Zinc was also
very important and zinc smelting methods had been discovered at Liege.
The industry grew rapidly, and was making 60 per cent of the world's
zinc by 1870. Belgium had special advantages in entrepreneurship, tech-
niques and materials. Most glass production was not heavily capitalized,
but that of plate glass was.
Professor Dupriez said that he would like to have said more about
retardation, but would content himself with the comment that the funda-
mental reason was that there was always the need to change production
functions qualitatively. There was clear evidence of this in studies of
both industries and firms. Such obstacles to continued growth arose
every twenty or thirty years. As for factor costs, interest rates were high
at the beginning of take-off because they were considerably affected by
political factors, and stability was not great at that time. On the other
hand, Belgium had not relied on the Dutch to finance even though her
own financial system was not developed. But the marginal efficiency of
capital was high in the new industries, despite relatively unskilled entre-
preneurs. Profits were high in the new techniques in iron, glass, and zinc,
the last two of which held a large share of the world market. So self-
finance from high profits was the rule, and development depended on the
profit rate. The marginal efficiency of capital in agriculture was falling
and this also helped to move capital to industry. The corn laws were
maintained until 1850 and the government did not abandon agriculture
in favour of industry until after take-off had occurred.
The wage situation in Belgium was complicated. The general price
level was low, so that with the same purchasing power as elsewhere one
had lower nominal costs. It was not clear what was the origin of this,
but it had held before the industrial revolution, and had probably begun
in the eighteenth century. In the end wages settled at the level the coal
377
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
industry could afford. This meant that wages remained stable up to
1850 and led to a situation in Flanders which was clearly Malthusian.
In Liege the position was better, though wage levels were low except in
glass. The wage situation was critical during the whole of the take-off
period, but there was an improvement after 1850.
The developing industries in Belgium did give a number of external
economies. All were heavy industries, and they led to the growth of
machine-making industries near by and to the development of good com-
munications with Antwerp. Although there were big quantitative in-
creases in output from 1850, industry then began to develop into the later,
and less heavy processes, especially finished goods in iron and zinc. To
begin with, Belgian take-off had been based on coal, iron, and other heavy
industry. The great importance of the metal industries in Belgium today
was the legacy of this particular specialization during take-off.
EIGHTH SESSION
THE DISCUSSION OF THE PAPER
BY PROFESSOR GERSCHENKRON
Professor Kuznets said that in introducing the paper he would indicate
several interesting aspects of a study which combined many ideas and
facts. It dealt with the first two Russian industrial spurts before 1914.
Professor Gerschenkron had his own theory of backwardness, and analysed
and criticized both the Rostow thesis and aggregate measures of national
income. Professor Kuznets would like to suggest that the discussion
should concentrate on one or two of these sub-topics.
Professor Gerschenkron's account of the first spurt showed that the
industrial production had increased by as much as 8 per cent per annum
and, at a later stage, by 6 per cent. Professor Kuznets said that as a
convinced aggregationist he still wanted to know how big industry was
in pre-1914 Russia relative to the rest of the economy. He also wanted
to know what happened to the rest of the economy. In particular, what
happened in manufacturing itself to allow the withdrawal of government
support and tariffs and to allow self-perpetuating growth to begin. Dis-
cussion would be helped if Professor Gerschenkron could say a little
more on this.
Another intriguing point was the concept of the 'strain of backward-
ness'. Its effect on the character of take-off raised interesting questions.
Who felt the strain of backwardness, and what group caused it ? How
far was it 'the attraction of forwardness' rather than 'the strain of back-
wardness' ? Why was there a connexion between the current rate of
technical progress and the choice of industries, with the bias in Russia
especially in favour of capital goods ?
Dr. Fischer wondered how far the notion of the strain of backwardness
was a notion that had operational value, or at least allowed one to explain
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Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
and classify historical events. If one could measure the degree of back-
wardness one might be able to distinguish 'types of backwardness ', for
example, that of late nineteenth-century Russia and to compare this with
backwardness in some African areas today.
Professor Marczewski commented on the statement on page 154 of
Professor Gerschenkron's paper that 'during the years of industrial up-
surge in Russia the economic well-being of the Russian peasantry was
subject to extraordinary pressures '. The take-off must obviously have
been financed from agriculture for the excellent reason that there was
nowhere else whence finance could have come. But was there any
evidence that industrialization after 1880 meant a marked fall in the
standard of living of the peasantry ? The standard of living in Russia
was very low in the countryside in 1914 but this did not necessarily mean
that it had deteriorated during industrialization.
The abolition of serfdom in 1861 did not lead to a rise in the standard
of living of the serfs, since they had to pay for the land they now tilled,
and it probably led to some fall. But where was the evidence that this
fall went on after 1880 ? He thought that a rise of as much as 8 per cent
per annum of industrial product must have had a significant impact on.
the standard of living of the whole community in the 1890's, although he
agreed that the biggest improvement had been after 1907. Professor
Gerschenkron had written-off the peasant uprising as a sign of how bad
the situation in the country was, but such revolts had often occurred in
Russia in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries and were of long standing.
Professor Marczewski thought that the effects of the strain of back-
wardness could already be discerned in the statement on page 152, 'The
more backward a country's economy, the more likely its industrialization
was to start discontinuously as a sudden great spurt proceeding at a
relatively high rate of growth of manufacturing output'. This was true
enough in Russia, but could one apply it as a general proposition for all
countries ? If factor endowments were sufficient to attract foreign capital
to allow the rapid introduction of imported technologies, backwardness
might have a positive effect. But this is not the general case in modem
undeveloped countries. Their situation was much more difficult than
was the situation of the modem developed countries on the eve of their
own industrialization. The discussion of the U.K. had shown that, as
the first industrial country, she was helped in industrial development by
the terms of trade between agriculture and industry. These were more
favourable for industrial products abroad than at home and therefore
foreign trade stimulated industrialization. This was not true for later
developers who were unable to compete with already industrialized
countries. They were obliged to pay for industrialization by exports of
raw materials and agricultural produce. Until 1914 and after, Russia
had been able to finance her imports of machinery by exports of wheat.
This was sold at rather low prices. The cost of this operation was very
high, but a country such as Russia, with her enormous resources and
her relatively small population, could afford it. Such a procedure was
379
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
not always possible for modern underdeveloped countries, especially for
those whose population was large relatively to the available resources.
Dr. Singer wanted to concentrate on the strain of backwardness.
Economists from Ricardo to Keynes had given many reasons why growth
could not be permanent in developed areas. Malthus. had worried over
population, Marx over the collapse of demand and Jevons over the ex-
haustion of resources. Keynes feared the vanishing of investment oppor-
tunities. Now we dismissed these fears, and discussed sustained and
automatic growth. More than this, we now gave the same list of reasons,
then given as reasons why developed areas could not sustain permanent
growth, as reasons why underdeveloped areas could not begin to grow
at all. So perhaps these fears had been exaggerated. But the same
problems still worried us, though now in a different context.
Professor Gerschenkron had said that the scheme which Professor
Rostow applied to underdeveloped areas only really applied to developed
areas, so that he was an opponent of the classical economists. Hirsch-
man's study of The Strategy of Development contained interesting com-
ments on backward and forward linkages. Although the links could go
from the raw material forwards or from the manufactured good back-
wards one got a different result in each case. A system which began
with the raw material was more permissive and vice versa. Professor
Gerschenkron's six points on pages 152-3 suggested that development
became more and more forced as one went down the scale of backward-
ness, and while Professor Rostow's scheme fitted the permissive cases
it did not fit the forced ones.
Professor Dupriez had been struck by several references in Professor
Gerschenkron's paper to the fact that in the first phases of industrializa-
tion there had been pressure on the agricultural dass, which was almost
pauperized. He did not question this as a fact, since something similar
had happened to Western Europe. But was it true that the pauperization
of the agricultural population was caused by the development of so small
an industrial sector ? In Western Europe, fifty or seventy years before,
pauperization had been the result of enclosures rather than industrializa-
tion. It was true that part of the population was taken out of agriculture,
and that, in the absence of technical progress in agriculture, food produc-
tion would have fallen, but he did not think that this process was at work
in Russia. The more likely thing was that labour had been withdrawn
from occupations other than the genuine agricultural sector and that the
marginal productivity of labour in agriculture must, at worst, have
remained constant.
A second hypothesis was that agriculture was operating at such a low
level of efficiency that it was only producing a subsistence standard of
life and that any withdrawal of population would cause a parallel fall in
agricultural output and lead to overall pauperization. This did not
sound very plausible. There had been much industrialization in the
Southern Ukraine, which was a wheat-producing area that exported a
great deal. So the hypothesis that food was short also fell down.
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Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
The third hypothesis was that pauperization was not the result of
Russian industrialization at all but of the world agricultural crisis. This
had resulted from the industrialization of the U.S.A. and the huge agri-
cultural output of the world's new areas, which lowered the relative price
of grain. But this implied that Russia alone of all the world's developing
countries experienced industrialization without any parallel change in
agricultural productivity.
Professor Dupriez said that many foreign entrepreneurs had moved
to Russia from countries like France, Belgium, and Germany. He
wondered how far the firms they established were directed by Russians
and how far by foreigners. The degree of leadership built up in Russia
would clearly be less if foreigners were the main industrial leaders than
if local leadership could be developed. He wondered whether one reason
for the slowing-down of industrial development in 1910, as compared
with 1890, might have been a result of such factors, and particularly a
slowing down of the inflow of foreign capital. A Belgian study showed
that while Russia offered good investment opportunities to foreign capital
in the 1890's, by 1910 there had been many failures and the return offered
to foreign capital was falling fast. Only one large Belgian concern in
Russia remained really successful.
Professor Bentzel found the six-point thesis set out on pages 152-3 very
strange, especially points 2, 3, and 4. He could not see why exactly the
opposite hypotheses were not set out. He knew little of economic history
but instead of point 4 he would say that 'the more backward an economy
was the greater the degree of hidden unemployment and the greater the
possibility of industrialization without a fall in agricultural 0 utput ".
Similarly, he would alter point 2 to say that the more backward an
economy was the less possible it was to put up big plants.
Professor North said that Dr. Singer had switched the rules of the
game from discussing case studies to discussing policy. As he under-
stood Professor Gerschenkron's six propositions there was nothing norma-
tive about them. The consequences of following them would be great
inefficiency, because the psychological response to backwardness was not
efficient. Was this list based on European experience, and would not the
consequences of following it today be most unfortunate ?
Professor Cootner thought the role of the government had probably
been continually overestimated. One could explain much the same
situation without recourse to the government policies which were sup-
posed to have assisted it. In both Japan and Russia there was a lag
between important political events and the economic effects which these
were supposed to have had. One had to import some vague explanation
of this lag. For example, on page 158, it was said that after the diplomatic
defeat at Berlin 'it took several years to draw the necessary inferences
and overcome the traditional aversion to industrialization'.
Similarly, there was the statement on page 166 that Russian grain
prices did not rise until after the peak of railroad construction was over.
Yet relative grain prices in Russia did rise in the 1890's despite the fall
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
in world prices, and this relative profitability set off much railway build-
ing. He was not saying that all this could have happened without the
assistance of the government; but the fact was that it was not until
favourable economic circumstances arose that the developments in ques-
tion took place. In Japan, too, there was little railway construction before
1880, and the first peak in rail building came sixteen or twenty years
after the incentive to build railways first arose.
The same kind of thing had occurred in the twentieth century. Rail-
way building in Russia and Argentina was possible because all over the
world resources were being channelled into wheat growing. Their
governments played an important role in channelling some of these
resources into railroad construction ; but the role of the government in
initiating industrialization had surely been overemphasized.
Professor Robinson suggested that it was easier to understand causes
if one were quite certain what had happened. Had Russia taken-off by
1907 or not ? If one looked at almost all developed countries one found
that they had experienced several spurts which could not be regarded
as take-offs. Had Russia really taken off at this stage ; or had she only
begun to industrialize? Was it only a temporary spurt, capable of re-
versal by Malthusian forces ? Professor Robinson doubted whether the
percentage of population in agriculture in rural Russia had reached levels
above those that India had reached at earlier stages. He doubted very
much whether take-off in Russia really had occurred by 1907.
Professor Rostow said that there was ample evidence to show that by
1914 there had already been sustained, widespread, and substantial
industrialization in Russia. As for the rate of growth criterion, it was
clear that this was not a unique standard of assessment. All would accept
that in Russia there was no satisfactory information about capital and
total output for the pre-conditions and the take-off. On the linking of
Czarist and Soviet experience, Professor Gerschenkron had teased him
about regarding the first five-year plan as take-off. He regarded the
process of Russian national growth as a continuous one. When Russia
had regained the 1918 level of activity in 1928, the capital stock had
been reinstated after the effects of war. Countries could come back after
a war to pick up where they left off, and do so quickly. By 1929 Russia
was well equipped both in terms of human beings and of technology
and he would regard the 1920's as a period when techniques were being
built up beyond the level inherited from Czarist times ; he thought that
the present Soviet view was fairly close to this.
Professor Gerschenkron had warned us to remember always how
arbitrary was the choice of our research topics, and how limited the
definitions we tied ourselves to using. Professor Gerschenkron had been
especially interested in the question of what accounted for the differences
in the framework which preceded and accompanied the passage to indus-
trialization in Europe. He had found the degree of backwardness to be
very important, but the generality with which these conclusions applied
had still to be tested.
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
Turning to the six criteria set out on pages 152-3 of Professor Gerschen-
kron's paper, Professor Rostow said that he did not think points 2 and 3
would apply in Japan, though he would like to see a comparison with
Germany. As for point 5, there were special institutional factors here
which applied in all countries. It would be interesting to make a com-
parison with Britain which was presumably the most permissive case.
Point 1 might or might not apply to Japan, and he thought the truth of
points 4 and 6 debatable. Professor Rostow thought that if one looked
at present-day underdeveloped countries the degree of backwardness
was even greater than in Russia. China exhibited elements of the Ger-
schenkron case, but was that a more acute strain of backwardness ? The
role of heavy industry in Russia had inevitably been affected by (a) the
scale of the railway system needed; (b) the military needs of the govern-
ment? and (c) the availability of coal and iron.
Professor Kuznets had asked about the strain of backwardness, wonder-
ing in what form it appeared, who felt it and whether it was really a
reflection of the ' attraction of forwardness '. The strain of backwardness
was a serious matter in a country that was colonized. If it were actually
occupied, then one had the extreme case, with the strain depending on
the character of the colonial power. In the intermediate case, one had
physical intrusion in China, and the threat of it in Japan. In Russia
there was a series of demonstrations of relative backwardness stretching
back into the eighteenth century. There was a spreading awareness that
a new set of ideas had been developed in the West, leading to a gap be-
tween Russian institutions and currently accepted ideas. There was also
military intrusion and diplomatic conflict. The Russians felt themselves
to be handicapped, and as one read the political dialogue in Russia right
up to 1917 one saw a mixture of attitudes. Some saw that the traditional
society was doomed but tried to defend it ; others thought it doomed
but were apathetic ; others thought it must be modernized ; while yet
others looked forward eagerly to a radically new type of society. This
kind of heart-searching had gone on outside Europe as well- in Japan
in the nineteenth century and in China over the whole period from the
Opium wars to 1949. The idea of the strain of backwardness was
interesting, but he was not sure that one would be able to find any pre-
cise relationship between Professor Gerschenkron's six factors and the
degree of backwardness, certainly not if one went beyond the limits of
time and space with which Professor Gerschenkron was concerned.
As for Dr. Singer's comments that his model was 'permissive', Pro-
fessor Rostow thought that if Dr. Singer re-read pages 9-11 of his
paper he would find no suggestion that growth was in any way automatic.
He did not think that the fact that there was continuity in the several
stages implied any automatic process in either pre-conditions or take-off.
In trying to organize patterns of history, and prescribe policy for under-
developed countries, we needed a less restrictive vocabulary than the
distinction between public and private enterprise, permissive and non-
permissive processes, etc. We could see that in the pre-conditions there
383
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
were some actions that could only be carried out by governments and
that in these fields the responsibility of the government did not end with
take-off. In agriculture, intervention was necessary for very special
reasons, such as the provision of fertilizers, roads, demonstrators, etc.,
but if one tried to violate the incentives of peasants or to intervene by
organizing communes, as in China, progress would be costly, inefficient,
and disturbed.
Professor Hayek's Road to Serfdom suggested that a degree of govern-
ment intervention in the economy would lead to progressively more and
more intervention. We needed more precision in what we meant by
intervention and non-intervention. Although preconditioning and take-
off might require a great deal of government intervention, there were
many instances of the government later abandoning its direct role in
industry. The role of the state in the growth process had not yet been
adequately explored or defined.
Professor Rostow said that there had been a substantial increase in
the use of fertilizers in Russia between the 1880's and 1914, new crops,
and an almost doubled grain harvest. But the rate of growth in agri-
cultural output was not high enough to satisfy the needs of the cities
and of exports as well as the desires of the peasant. There had been a
marked rise in the peasant's standard of living, but not a big enough
one to satisfy his wishes. The idea of a stagnant agriculture was not
realistic.
Professor Rostow said that Professor Gerschenkron had put forward
one of the few testable hypotheses about take-off. There were two billion
people in the world going through the same experiences, with similar
sequences of events. He thought that despite Professor Gerschenkron's
self-denying ordinances about time and space, we should keep coming
back to the Gerschenkron thesis.
Mr. Boserup thought that when discussing pauperization we were too
prone to talk of agriculture as a whole. Was there not a pronounced
polarization in agriculture in Japan and Russia? When Professor Tsuru
wrote of the peasant as Atlas carrying the burden, he was probably
thinking of the peasant as the tiller of the soil, and not necessarily of the
whole agricultural population. There might have been the same polar-
ization in Russia. The abolition of serfdom led to the commercialization
of the countryside, land-grabbing, etc. He agreed with Professor Kuznets
that if agricultural output in Japan had risen at the rates quoted, the
problem of pauperization disappeared ; but he found it hard to believe
that total output had, in fact, risen at these high rates.
Mr. Berrill raised three questions. First, he agreed with Professor
Robinson that it was doubtful whether Russia had really taken off by
1913. This was a clear example where a study of the aggregate data
said that the country had not taken off but a study of certain sectors
suggested that it had. Russia as a whole was a backward country if one
looked at criteria such as the percentage of the population in agriculture,
but the position is very different if one looked at the situation in oil, steel,
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Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
coal, railways, and other progressive sectors. With large textile towns,
an impressive railway network, with coal, sugar, oil, and steel it was hard
to imagine a relapse into the pre-take-off era. If the notion of take-off
had any meaning at all, Russia had gone far towards it.
Second, were the peasants hurt? Mr. Berrill said that this was a
difficult problem because it was a statistical one. Industrial growth had
certainly been a painful process in the sense that manufacturing goods
were relatively dear and supported by a tariff. There was also the
'dumping' of Russian agricultural produce at prices which were below
the farmers' costs of production. This did not prove that the peasants
were worse off either absolutely or relatively but it did mean that indus-
trialization meant very unfavourable terms of trade for the countryside.
Finally, Mr. Berrill found Professor Gerschenkron's ideas on back-
wardness interesting but not conclusive. He agreed that in the early
stages a country was tied down to its own base of resources, and he thought
this more important than the degree of backwardness.
Professor Gerschenkron summed up his position in the light of the
discussion. Professor Robinson had asked whether Russian development
by 1907 had become irreversible. He would remind Professor Robinson
of Wittgenstein's remark that anyone who asked a question was bound
to say what kind of answer he required. It was necessary to define terms
like reversible, irreversible and so on, and this was impossible. Even if
development had never been reversed, this did not mean that it was
irreversible.
Dr. Fischer had asked about the operational value of the concept of
the degree of backwardness. He would say that no precise answer was
possible because one could define the degree of backwardness in several
ways .. For example, one could define it in terms of output per head, or
GNP per head, or manufacturing output per head, or many other things.
One could also bring in other factors such as potential output per head
compared with that actually achieved. Then even the U.S.A. could be
called under-developed. This might seem discouraging and clumsy, but
it was true of nineteenth-century Europe at least that, whatever the
measures used, individual countries were fairly easy to arrange in order
of backwardness. Since one only wanted to be able to tackle a small
number of discreet cases, an ordinal ranking was not difficult. One could
then correlate this with changes in the industrial structure.
The question had been raised of how far industrialization imposed a
burden on the peasant. Russia was more backward than any other
country he had studied, and one was therefore entitled to ask whether
the burden of the peasantry was greater than elsewhere. The emanci-
pation of the serfs was especially important because of the way it was
done. The result of emancipation was that the Russian peasantry got
personal freedom but with qualification - and too little land. The
financial burdens on the peasants were greater than ever before. It was
not quite correct, as had been said, that this was a result of the fact that
they had to redeem their land. High quit rents had to be paid to the
JSs
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
landlords, and the redemption price was capitalized on these high rents.
The repayment schedule and high prices, however, meant that the peasant
virtually got the land free, paying the same sum as the quit rents to the
government.
Although in theory the peasant was given complete personal freedom,
this was not quite so because the reinforced village commune took over
where the landlord had left off. In a limited sense it was almost true
that the peasant was a serf vis-a-vis the village commune. His freedom
to move to the city was limited by the strengthening and legalization of
the commune through emancipation. In Britain, under enclosure, the
peasant could sell his land and leave. In Russia, he could not do so
unless he repaid a large part of the value of the land, which still belonged
to the commune. This was bad for future industrialization, which in
any case the government feared. Also, being a conservative body, the
commune was likely to keep the peasants conservative and the govern-
ment hoped that both industrialization and revolution would be held
back by the system of communes.
There was a high rate of growth of population, and with the peasant
confined inside the pinfold of the commune, his position was bound to
worsen. Only half the peasants had been serfs, but the remainder was
assimilated after the abolition with the result that in the end all were in
much the same position. There was a steady process of deterioration
and progress became impossible in a peasant economy. There was no
surplus for investment, and in an attempt to improve their lot, the peasants
used whatever surplus the commune had to buy more land from the nobility.
With public opinion favourable, there might have been a case for
trying to do something radical to improve the critical agricultural situa-
tion by the end of the 1870's ; there were not continual revolts, as Professor
Marczewski had suggested, but there were periodic ones. The develop-
ment of an intellectual ideology of revolt mirrored these peasant uprisings.
Mter the disaster of the Congress of Berlin, it was decided to leave
agriculture to its own devices and to concentrate on industrialization.
Peasant agriculture was put under great fiscal stress. It was not correct
to say that there had been no progress in agriculture. For example,
Professor Rostow was right that there had been a movement from animal
to grain farming, and also a move to the virgin lands of the south and
east. But this had been accompanied by the establishment of larger-
scale farms, partly manned by migratory labour and partly by the perma-
nent movement of peasants from the north and from central Russia.
Looking at it from the viewpoint of the peasantry as a whole, the decision
to industrialize was deplorable ; their whole position deteriorated, and
this was so certain as to leave no room for discussion.
It was unfortunate that there were no exact data to support this
view, but it was clear that food consumption per head was falling though
rapid industrialization was going on. There was a peculiarly strong
pressure to export - even though this might mean starvation, as indeed
it did during a series of famines. This could not be divorced from the
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Hague- Summary Record of tM Debate
policy of the government, which was unusually successful in levying
taxation on the peasants and in taking their food stocks. Combined with
the predominance of the three-field system, which implied much fallow
land and low yields on the cultivated fields, this naturally led to a system
where the peasant had no reserves to meet times of famine. If one looked
at the number of horses available, there was a disastrous decline. There
was no rise in the number of peasants with 2 or 3 horses, and there was
a fall in the number of those with one.
The government felt the need to do something, and a Commission
set up to study the problem produced a many-volume study which set
out region by region the decline in the position of the peasantry; world
prices were low, and the terms of trade unfavourable to agriculture. But
Professor Gerschenkron did not think that one could fail to regard the
fiscal pressure on the peasantry as a partial reason for the disastrous
decline in agriculture. The wave of rebellions was largely caused by
industrialization and the way it was encouraged.
The basic question for the great spurt was, of course, the rate at
which national income had risen, and neither on this or on the import-
ance of industry relatively to the whole economy was there adequate
statistical information. Soviet figures always tended to minimize the
pre-1914 performance. The claim that in the Russia of the early twentieth
century industry was more important than agriculture was greatly exag-
gerated, but by 1914 industry probably represented 20 per cent of national
output, which was not to be sneezed at. Whether industry had taken off,
and would have sustained its growth had World War I not occurred, was
a different question that was hard to answer. Russian industry was not
truly born until 1885-1900, and a good deal of development of a slow
and gradual kind in the textile industry had gone before this- with
British help. So the base was not small, and had been extended by the
8 per cent per annum rise in manufacturing output. During this spurt
industries had been set up on a tremendous scale, and Professor Gerschen-
kron did not think that Mr. Berrill's argument about raw materials took
one very far. All cotton was imported to begin with, as indeed were
the materials for the industrial development of St. Petersburg. Thus,
all coal was imported, as was much iron ore, and even steel. It was
true that the developments in the Don Basin were based on local materials
and that it was an excellently located spot for such developments. It
was also true that the chemical and railway rolling-stock industries ex-
panded, not least with the construction of the Trans-Siberian railway.
When one recalled that Russia had not only built railways but improved
industry and agriculture at the rate she did, one saw that the small per-
centage of people occupied in industry was not an accurate index of its
importance. He did not want to detract from this effort, but industrial-
ization was inefficient in the sense that the burden on the peasants was
large. Cost per man in industry was also high, and the whole process
was carried out in unfavourable conditions with an inefficient bureaucracy
and bad management.
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
There was no doubt that foreign entrepreneurs were invaluable,
especially in the Don Basin where he thought it would have been difficult
to industrialize without them. On the other hand, despite numerous
studies, he could not assess the r6le of foreign capital in Russia with
absolute certainty. Still, one could take short cuts to a solution by making
fixed assumptions about the capital-output ratio, but it was surprising
how small the r6le of foreign capital had been in the overall development
of Russia. Most capital came from within Russia and a great deal of the
necessary funds came from commerce. Heavy industry had an enhanced
social status, and manufacturers would move from, say, soap manufacture
into steel.
After the depression of 1900, there had been a great advance. One
could not ignore the fact that Russian industry had moved far since
government help had assisted in building it up in the 1890's. It was
doubtful whether foreign capital and entrepreneurship would have come
into Russia at all had it not been for the efforts of the Russian government
in creating the environment in which they could operate so successfully.
Professor Gerschenkron thought that the effect of the tariff was negligible
when compared with the influence of the prices Russian governments
had paid for rails, rolling-stock, etc. and their success in keeping labour
relatively cheap. Yet things had been very different after 1905, with
industry appearing as a modernized, Western industry, and with the
government mainly concerned with ensuring monetary stability and
achieving budget surpluses.
The government had also resisted pressures to carry out military pro-
grammes. Yet, although the government was not willing to spend larger
sums on heavy industry or on railroads, and although there was a strong
cartelization movement, there seemed to have been strong technical pro-
gress. Cartelization brought order to a nascent industry, and technical
progress had temporarily offset the effects of monopoly which might
have become evident later. Similarly, while some industries did not
need the banks to supply capital, others used them very effectively. There
had been some suggestion that investment opportunities were diminish-
ing, but there was no evidence of this. A 6 per cent rate of growth was
very high, and in some fields the investment opportunities were enormous,
e.g. in public utilities. In many Russian cities gas had never been intro-
duced and electricity was installed instead. The Belgian influence was
strong here, and public utility companies were called ' Belgian com-
panies'. Russia was developing rapidly, and Professor Gerschenkron
gave it as his opinion that if the 1914 war had not occurred the growth
process would have continued.
The term 'strain of backwardness' was not his own but Professor
Kuznets ', though he had been very ready to borrow it. He was not sure
what was the difference between backwardness and forwardness. The
question was what made growth start. Professor Rostow would answer
that it did so because the pre-conditions were completed. When one
asked how this was known, the further answer was that growth had
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started ! He thought that Professor Rostow should avoid these inferences
backward from the occurrence of a fact to its having been conditioned
in the way that he thought it should have been. This was logically just
as bad as Professor Rostow's way of defining growth as a shift in the
production function, and then of arguing that there was no growth be-
cause there had been no shift in production functions. This merely
meant that there was no growth because there was no growth. Although
it was doubtless true that the merry-go-round was a means of transport,
it would not take one very far.
Professor Gerschenkron said that he would not like to categorize
what he had been developing for the last ten years as a theory, but he
had tried to distill out some preliminary generalizations of an empirical
kind. He wanted to sort out the material in an ordered way so that we
could discover whether deeper probing sustained the initial conclusions.
There was not simply one theory ; one could have a number of alternative
approaches. Essentially the situation on the eve of the great spurt was
that one had a backward country with many things going on outside it
but very little within it. He thought one could fairly describe this as a
situation of tension between what was and what could have been. It
was possible to define tension in terms of the profits which might have
been made, which made it clear why backwardness was hard to separate
from forwardness. Growth might fail to occur because there was some
institutional obstacle, or no source from which to borrow technological
knowledge. Perhaps profits were not high enough, and so on. His own
conclusion for Russia in 1885-1914, as described in his paper, was that
one had to look at the economy in two ways, otherwise one lost sight of
the character of the change. One could also see that there was a period
at the turn of the century when the two patterns of explanation co-
incided. After this, there was a change in the role of the government.
Instead of continuing its traditional task of attempting to press indus-
trialization, it behaved more passively.
Professor Gerschenkron said that he was disappointed by Professor
Rostow's failure, during the discussion, to speak of the concept of the
pre-conditions. The difference of opinion between them was important
if one wanted to see the process of change in a fairly specific way. He
never failed to be impressed by the difference in the pre-conditions from
case to case. It was important to look further than Professor Rostow had
done and to arrange the material in such a way as to enlarge the frame of
reference considerably.
This raised the question of how general we should try to be, how
much we knew of other countries, and how far we should look outside
Europe. He did not think that his own work on development in the
U.S.A. helped very much. The concept of graduated backwardness
depended greatly on having a backward agriculture and a backward
population, and this was difficult to sustain in a country which was born
free.
Nevertheless, he did not think that the concept was useless. He had
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
begun a study of Italian industrialization with five or six general ideas
based on his studies of other countries. He had first constructed an
index of industrial output and had found a spurt in 1896 to 1914. Although
in this period the rate of growth was high compared with that in other
countries, he had not thought it high enough. For Italy was very back-
ward and there was a large backlog of potential technological improvement
available to her on the basis of developments elsewhere. The question
was why his expectations had not been fulfilled. This had raised further
questions and had led to further research.
If one found that events did not justify one's hypotheses, one could
either discard or replace them. Alternatively, one could say, with Pro-
fessor Rostow, that the particular case did not fit the theory. But one
could also find deviations from the model and try to' systematize these.
This might give one a better model, which one could apply to further
countries. Professor Gerschenkron felt that this was a bad moment to
try to defend his own expectations about backwardness. The concept
had done most of what it could do for him, and he would have to move
beyond it. And, as Professor Bentzel had explained, it could be reversed.
Perhaps the time had come to look less at the advantages of backwardness,
and more at the disadvantages. He was convinced that one must separate
out periods where expectations of backwardness had their effect, and
discover whether there really was increasing backwardness. He thought
there were also cases where the maximum tension was missed, for example,
where the period of railway construction passed without setting off
industrialization. Or perhaps one missed the stage where the labour
force was still docile. So he wanted to divide up the time periods more
carefully, look for the modal points where advantages were at their
optimum, see what happened if such optimum periods were missed and
whether the result was increasing backwardness.
On the basic question of the usefulness of the analysis outside Europe,
he thought the essential lesson was that if one wanted to understand
development one had to accept the fact that though there was unity it
was only a unity in diversity. One had to be aware of the big differences
between the process of industrialization in the various countries. One
could then find both similarities and differences, but it was the latter that
were particularly creative. These differences were explicable ex post but
could not be predicted ex ante. If one then turned to areas where the type
of backwardness was very different, there were new questions to answer ;
but the process was instructive provided that one remembered that the
answers would be very different from those that one got in Europe, whose
backwardness was of a very different kind. How far it was useful to raise
such questions was a moot point, and if one went on to introduce factors
like the kind of political system this raised a new and different range of
problems.
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NINTH SESSION
INTERIM SUMMING UP
Professor Landes stressed that he could only do his best to state the
position which he thought had been reached at that moment, in a con-
ference where the climate of opinion was still changing. The point of
departure had been Professor Rostow's Stages of Economic Growth, a
work which rested on a new vocabulary and therefore inevitably repre-
sented an act of aggression against an established discipline. Yet this
aspect of Professor Rostow's contribution was perhaps self-defeating, for
a number of reasons. First, it tended to divert attention from the sub-
stance of his analysis to the labels employed. Second, these vivid terms
concealed the traditional and accepted character of many of these ideas ;
thus, as Professor Rostow himself noted, take-off and industrial revolu-
tion meant much the same thing. Finally, a term like take-off was a
liability in itself, because it was a metaphor of uneven appositeness.
Nothing was so dangerous as a single, sharp image of a subtle, nuanced
phenomenon. No wonder that so much of the discussion had been
devoted to demolishing Professor Rostow's vocabulary.
Professor Rostow's system of stages was intended to be at once a
classification and a model of growth. From the taxonomic standpoint it
was a refinement of the traditional three-stage system and had its merits
and defects ; that is, it made it possible to grasp more easily the evolution
of a complex process, but at the price of some distortion and over-simpli-
fication. As a model, the system was intended to explain how technological
change at one or a few points of the economy diffused to the rest and
transformed it. The general feeling of the group was that the system,
qua model, left something to be desired. On the one hand it was far
from complete. It said comparatively little about the preparatory phase
of industrialization and hence did little to explain how and why take-offs
occurred ; it did even less to explain why take-offs differed as they did
from one economy to another. There was, on this point, some feeling
that more could be done to introduce non-economic considerations into
the system.
On the other hand, the model was not new. The heart of the system
was the analysis of technological diffusion via leading sectors and linkages.
This came very close to what Schumpeter had said about the role of
innovation and to what Marshall and others had said about derived
demand. Because the Rostow contribution was not wholly new, one's
first inclination was to ask, ' So what ?' Yet as the discussion had made
clear, Professor Rostow had performed a very valuable service by posing
a clear-cut debatable issue. For some, apparently, industrial revolutions
were not simply to be taken for granted, and the confrontation of the two
points of view had been very fruitful, as the changing tenor of the debate
had made clear.
Turning to more specific reactions, Professor Landes said he would
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
divide the many criticisms offered into two categories: (1) historical and
qualitative, and (2) statistical. On the first, he thought especially of the
papers and comments of Professors Gerschenkron, Kuznets, and North,
all of whom had stressed the inadequacy of Professor Rostow's analysis
and had offered empirical data to modify or fill in the schema. Thus
Professor Gerschenkron had stressed the implications of backwardness,
which did much to explain the diversity of national responses to the new
technology. And Professors North and Kuznets had emphasized the
need to look at the totality of the economy, to embrace industrial, agri-
cultural, and commercial sectors together. The notion of the leading
sector, they felt, tended to truncate the analysis, to say nothing of its
intrinsic weaknesses as an economic concept.
On these weaknesses, the discussion raised a number of points. First,
there was the general difficulty of distinguishing cause and effect in cases
of parallel variation. For example, as Miss Deane and Professor Habakkuk
had shown, a big rise in British foreign trade and the rapid development
of certain industrial sectors went hand in hand. Which was cause and
which effect ? Did analysis in terms of leading sectors put too much
emphasis on changes originating within industry, such as technological
innovation, and too little on outside stimuli like demand ? Second, and
related to the first point, there was the problem of separating out the
effects, direct and indirect, of growth in different sectors ; given the
inter-relatedness of economic activity, an attempt to sum the different
sectors separately might well yield a total greater than the whole.
In reply, Professor Rostow might agree that there were difficulties,
but these were no justification in themselves for discarding the concept.
The criticisms simply added new dimensions to the analysis. It would
be very useful, for example, to look at the different leading sectors in the
development of various economies and ask why the differences occurred.
Professor Gerschenkron had done something of the kind when he dis-
cussed the increasing importance of heavy industry in the historical
sequence of industrial revolutions and showed how it was related to the
concept of leading sectors. Similarly, in his earlier work Professor
Hoffman had distinguished between the roles played by consumers' and
producers' goods. Thus the strongest critics of leading sectors could not
avoid making use of similar concepts themselves.
The statistical criticisms had been sharper, and most of these had
come from Miss Deane and Professor Habakkuk, Professor Hoffman,
Professor Marczewski and, especially, from Professor Kuznets. They
had focused on the nature and validity of quantitative criteria of growth,
especially on measures of capital formation and output per head. Among
other things, the point was made that there did not seem to be any spurt
at all in the data for some countries. This attack on the Rostow schema
was not only more fundamental than the qualitative criticisms mentioned
above, but represented, in effect, the most revolutionary development of
the whole conference. It would appear that there was a clear conflict
between our aggregate statistics and the traditional interpretation of
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economic history. New facts had now been introduced into the debate
and, whether he liked them or not, the economic historian could not
ignore them.
On the nature of these statistics, it was Professor Kuznets who had
made the vital point that many of the take-offs that had so far occurred
had done so before there were quantitative data which were adequate to
test theories about what had occurred. It was not only that too many
figures were missing. There was the problem of how to use what figures
there were to build further, and that problem was not solved by using
scanty data to make calculations to one or two decimal places. The snag
here was the irresistibility of statistics. All the warnings in the world
would not make us less enamoured of their pseudo-precision. For lack
of anything better, we were inclined to accept what figures there were,
good or bad, and to select those which supported our own contentions
and omit the others. Moreover, even when care was used in preparing
composite aggregate figures, the statistical techniques used could blur
the picture, since averages and extrapolations smoothed-out and levelled-
off the changes and trends we were looking for. He was not sure whether
greater sophistication in the statistical techniques used would improve
or worsen this, because he thought that the kind of figure we were using
was too refined for the sort of analysis we were attempting.
Professor Landes suggested that fundamental questions about the
validity of the statistical approach arose if, with the best figures available,
we found no evidence of any spurt. What then ? Several reactions were
possible. First, we might argue that economic growth was smooth,
except for cycles. Second, we might say that our statistics were still not
precise enough, and that we needed a battery of techniques to show
deviations from the trend, because what looked like small deviations to
us were more important than we thought. It was perhaps asking a great
deal that the small industrial sector that developed during the take-off
of what long remained a largely agricultural economy should have a big
immediate effect on aggregate growth rates. Third, we might infer, as
Professor Kuznets implied, that aggregate statistics concealed, rather than
revealed, what happened.
What did all this mean for our concept of the take-off? Was it no
longer a unique event in the development of an economy ? Perhaps
most participants would agree that a spurt did not happen just once in
the history of most economies ; that there were likely to be several spurts,
each of them based on clusters of innovations or of investment, and not
necessarily only in the industrial sector. Nevertheless, Professor Landes
argued, the Rostow kind of spurt was something special. It marked a
vital change in the quality of the economy ; the substitution of machines
for human skill, the wide use of inanimate power based on non-vegetable
fuel, the introduction of new, non-vegetable raw materials, especially in
chemicals ; above all, the transformation of the mode of production.
And it marked a quantitative landmark, for no combination of innovations
before or since had yielded comparable gains in productivity. Moreover,
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
if one added to this combination the changes in transport that accom-
panied the Industrial Revolution in 'follower countries', one had all the
difference between the pre-modern and the modern economy. To be
sure, these changes were not always abrupt, yet they were revolutionary
in their effects. Continuity and change were merely two aspects of the
same process.
Perhaps one of the most crucial questions was why take-off was so
different in different economies. Everyone agreed that differences in the
historical heritage were important, and Professor Kuznets had argued
that the stage system understressed these. Professor Gerschenkron's
emphasis on the role of backwardness was one way of looking at this.
Or, to take a concrete issue like Professor Rostow's point about doubling
the rate of net investment, here history showed two types of background,
with different consequences. There were those countries that were rich
and had learned to save even before their industrial revolution. Britain
was the most obvious case, but even the European countries and the
U.S.A. were relatively rich and thrifty on the eve of their industrial revolu-
tions by comparison with present-day underdeveloped countries. Small
wonder that in such cases there had been no very abrupt change in the
rate of net saving at the time of take-off. For countries today, the situa-
tion was very different, not least because of the size of the gap they had
to make up. It might well be necessary for them to double net invest-
ment, which would make them fit the Rostow model.
Pursuing this question of background, any definition of the pre-
conditions of take-off was likely to contain some element of tautology,
but then in a sense this was a shortcoming of all historical explanation.
Yet Professor Landes was not ready to abandon all hope of stating testable
prerequisites. We already had views on what factors made economies
operate most efficiently; why should it be much harder to say what were
the conditions that would prepare change and facilitate economic growth ?
Clearly, one could not stipulate a certain minimum level of prerequisites,
but one could say that the more nearly a country approached some kind
of theoretical optimum, the easier growth was likely to be. Deviations
from this optimum - and history was full of them - presumably had
their costs, just as deviations from economic rationality did. Perhaps the
term 'pre-conditions' was too absolute in its connotations, but growth
had to be preceded by a conditioning process of some kind, and this was
susceptible to scientific analysis.
In addition to heritage, many factors went to explain the varied char-
acter of the growth process in different countries. Professor Landes
noted that growth was not merely a process of industrialization, but that
historically industrialization and growth had gone hand in hand. There
were exceptions - a country like Denmark, for example, which had
followed its comparative advantage by developing agriculture. But these
were rare, and underdeveloped countries today were convinced that
industry was the key to wealth. Another source of differences in pattern
and rate of growth was timing. This was the kind of thing blurred by a
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stage system, which could not give due consideration to changes in
technology, scale of production, nature of demand and the like, all of
which conditioned the possibilities and character of development. Nor
could a cover-all concept like ~backwardness' be used without great
caution. Professor Gerschenkron had noted the implications of 'degrees
of backwardness'. There were also the advantages and disadvantages of
lateness which compensated each other differently in each case.
Professor Landes said that he might sum this up by saying that the
discussions so far did not reveal a fundamental conflict, but rather a con-
frontation and rubbing-together of different points of view, all of which
would add to our knowledge of a complex and subtle phenomenon. The
very adjustments of opinion that had occurred in the course of debate
were the best evidence of the value of such give and take. He also had
a sense of the great opportunities before us, with the statistical work of
people like Miss Deane, Professor Marczewski, and Professor Kuznets as
leading examples of new ways in which we could add to the corpus of
historical knowledge. Finally, he was confirmed in his belief that know-
ledge of these earlier experiences was relevant to modern economies, not
only because of the similarities, but also because of the differences between
past and present. History was there to give us lessons in relative failure
and success, and to teach us the comparative costs of adjusting to a
changing but persistent and increasingly general problem.
PTofessor Kuznets said that while he had found both the papers and
the discussion enlightening, it was difficult to give a distillation of them,
and he would prefer to say something about the general framework in
which the results for separate countries could be viewed. He thought
that a major reason for differences of opinion in the meetings had been
an over-simple view of what we meant by smoothness. Smoothness did
not exclude the possibility of spurts ; nor was an aggregative approach
inconsistent with a sectoral one. There was nothing in the nature of the
statistical tools themselves that would limit the variety of the patterns
generated. The only question was how one should deal with the results
of economic experience, and the only fundamental requirement was that
there should be reasonably complete data about the changes which had
occurred. The presumed conflict between continuity and discontinuity
was not a real one.
Professor Kuznets was inclined to think of modern economic growth
as resulting from additions to the stock of knowledge - as a system of
extending the application of modern science to problems of production
and of human welfare. This stock of knowledge was 'trans-national',
and he would suggest that the characteristic of being self-sustained was
really one of modern growth as a whole. Growth was sustained because
knowledge was an open-ended resource, and social and intellectual condi-
tions were such that we had reasonable expectations of growing without
apparent limit.
In this connexion, he was impressed by the contrast between the
major technological improvements of the twentieth century and those
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
of the late eighteenth. The latter set of innovations was, at least in the
case of cotton and iron, the result of a long search through trial-and-error
experiment which could be dated to 50 or 100 years before the innovation.
The innovations had been generated by bottlenecks in the British economy
and were the result of sheer necessity. But this was not true, for example,
with the inventions of the late nineteenth century, of which one might
say that invention had been the mother of necessity! This rapid change
in technical and social inventiveness constituted the changing background
against which nations entering on modern economic growth had to be
viewed. Countries entering on growth in the twentieth century were
confronted with an entirely different and much wider set of development
opportunities.
While there were strong, self-sustaining elements in the growth of
knowledge as the base of modern economic growth at large the growth
of any one nation was much less self-sustaining. It accelerated and de-
celerated, and the concept of self-sustaining growth was much more
questionable if applied to it. Professor Kuznets asked therefore whether
the distinction between growth that was and was not self-sustained made
~uch sense in terms of a single nation. One could have irreversible
growth - growth which might sustain itself at a certain level of perform-
ance - but in most countries there was a continual struggle against
obstacles which the very development process itself threw up. He doubted
whether one could truthfully say that growth was self-sustaining. For
example, we know of no country which had entered on growth within
the time-span of our statistical observations, except for the communist
countries where the period of observation was too short, where growth
had not tended to slow down sooner or later. And this slowing down had
occurred against the background of a stock of knowledge which was
continuing to grow rapidly.
The second item in the general framework within which Professor
Kuznets viewed growth in individual countries was the distinctive heri-
tages of different countries. If one conceived of economic growth as
occurring over wide, multi-country areas, with complexes of epochal
inventions capable of spreading throughout the globe, the present age
was the first in world history when the current economic system had
been truly capable of affecting the whole world. This had not been true
of the earlier systems. Up to the present, the situation had been one
where the different parts of the world were in effective isolation from
each other. The transport system had been such that countries with
distinctive systems of behaviour and economics were virtually unac-
quainted with each other. Now, the Western modern economic system
was affecting countries across the world, which had very diverse historical
heritages simply because the world had been divided for so long into
these separate parts. We in the West knew very little of the behaviour
patterns and social structures of other parts of the world, and yet economic
growth was spreading to countries with quite dissimilar characteristics.
The differences were not only in natural resource endowments, but in
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social institutions which had evolved independently and only recently
come into contact with modern economic systems. An understanding
of such differences in heritage was essential to seeing development in
different countries in proper perspective.
Professor Kuznets' third point was that any specific country had to
be looked at in terms of the timing of its entry into modern economic
growth, the state of knowledge at the time, and the country's own his-
torical heritage. All of these put each country in a particular relationship
with other countries, which might be leaders in the spreading process.
In applying these criteria, Professor Kuznets suggested that one had
to make a basic distinction between pioneer and follower nations. All
epochal innovations had been made first in one or two countries which
suggested that what we needed to do was not merely to compare the
development of particular countries, but also to study the ways in which
an epoch spread. At present we were trying to generalize from too little
experience. If one started with the pioneer nations, one could first ask
why they were pioneers. That might teach us a lot about the beginning
of modern economic growth. For the followers, the question to ask was
why they did follow and why the leader was first. One would then be
doing what Professor North had suggested, and tying-in the behaviour
of the follower with that of the leader in exploiting specific comparative
advantages. In this case, as the sequence of followers became longer,
one got a greater variety of linkages, and the range of comparative ad-
vantages and differential obstacles became wider and wider. It was
interesting to speculate whether, say, during World War I, one could
have forecast the very difficult social adjustments necessary in the Soviet
Union, and the high degree of state intervention this would imply. There
was a similar element in the story of imperial Germany, where the big
question was what made the process of adjustment there so different
from that in the U.K. and the U.S.A. One had a progression from a
mild form of government intervention in the U.K. and the U.S.A., to
increasingly strong intervention as Germany, Japan, Russia, and China
began to grow.
If one asked what all this meant in our discussion of the Rostow
approach, the broad answer lay in emphasizing the need for a more
specific characterization of modern economic growth. We needed to
know what was the minimum social accompaniment and technological
adjustment necessary if a country was to take advantage of the stock of
potential innovations available in the modern world as in the past. One
essential prerequisite was apparently a minimal literacy. Another was
the minimum scale of enterprise necessary for engineering reasons. A
third was that work should be allocated in terms of efficiency in per-
formance and not from family connexions. These illustrated the charac-
teristics on the basis of which one could define the prerequisites of
effective modern economic performance. One could then make a study
of growth in terms of the sequence in which these characteristics were
adopted. It might be possible to distinguish phases of growth which
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
were marked off by the degree to which they were adopted, though
Professor Kuznets was not sure that there would be enough similarity
to make a stage distinction useful.
For example, in the U.S.A. one would start with a set of historical
characteristics, like resources, men, skill, and training, etc., where one
condition that caused difficulty was how to eliminate the obstacle which
slavery represented to economic growth. The U.S.A. had been far past
the 'take-off' and yet a bitter war was necessary to adapt part of the
heritage and counter the threat to the unity of the country. In Russia,
the spurt covered by Professor Gerschenkron had led to a situation where
war shook up society so much that there was revolution. He submitted
that one could regard this as a take-off in the sense that the decks were
not clear for growth by 1910. Perhaps one aspect of the pre-conditions
was that the economy should be strong enough to avoid collapsing
during war.
Professor Kuznets said he would conclude by pointing to the fact
that the number of countries where growth had occurred was not much
more than twelve or eighteen, over a period of 150 years. And many of
these came from a narrow range of countries close to the West European
historical heritage. Growth in very different countries, for example,
Japan, had been inadequately studied. All we could do so far was to
classify the results of this experience so that our expectations of uniformity
and divergence could be associated with some view of the conditions
required for development. Professor Kuznets thought that his emphasis
on epochs would show the source of similarities and differences in ex-
perience. He thought similarities were due to invariant characteristics
in modern society, while differences were due to differences in heritage
and timing. For the present, he thought the only useful study was the
sources of such invariance and difference, and the way in which these
affected each other.
Professor Kuznets suggested that Professor Rostow's analysis put too
much emphasis on similarity. The pre-conditions differed, as did take-
offs. The stress on the self-sustaining nature of later developments put
much emphasis on similarity, as compared with differences that one
would find if one looked at processes that did not sustain themselves. If
there was to be value in the Rostow hypothesis, which, like all hypotheses,
could be useful only by guiding the investigator, it was important that
the terms used should lead in the right direction, especially since part
of the interest in take-off was to learn how to plan for future growth.
A scrutiny of the evidence suggested that there was not sufficient generality
in the characteristics Professor Rostow stressed to warrant accepting his
hypothesis as a guide.
Professor Hoffmann said that he had calculated figures for the ratio of
the output of investment goods to that of consumer goods in terms of
value added in manufacturing industry. These figures showed that the
ratio was high in each country at the moment when growth became rapid.
The same was true for the ratio of consumer goods to investment goods
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within exports of manufactured goods. His figures suggested that such
changes were a necessary condition for growth, and that each country
could build up its output of capital goods only slowly.
Professor Delivanis took up the point that the underdeveloped coun-
tries had to make a bigger leap in net investment than nineteenth-century
developing countries. Even if net investment were doubled, it would
take time to double the total stock of capital, especially when one remem-
bered that population and the value of money would be changing. It
was also easier to raise the proportion of the national income invested
when the national income was rising. Professor Delivanis suggested that
present-day underdeveloped countries could avoid expensive investment
mistakes because of the greater knowledge they had, thanks to the ex-
perience of other countries in the last century.
All in all, he thought that other disadvantages were more important,
especially the monetary experience of underdeveloped areas. Their
problem was complicated by the large number of possible investment
alternatives from which they could choose. Professor Kuznets had sug-
gested that inventions in the U.K. were made in order to break shortages,
and it was hard for underdeveloped areas to know what kind of invest-
ment decision to make remembering the structural and monetary conditions
in which they had to operate. Monetary problems were not simple, and
this complicated the problem. Perhaps things had been easier when the
U.K. had dominated the world monetary system, and he suggested that
differing monetary experience and a difficult foreign trade position were the
main factors determining how underdeveloped countries would develop.
Mr. Mathur was disturbed over some difficulties inherent in historical
analysis. The unit covered by the papers in the Round Table had been
arbitrarily taken to be the country, but for the study of the take-off one
could equally well define any other region as a unit of historical study.
If one concentrated attention on regions which had started development
earlier, by taking a suitably small area one could push back the date of
the take-off. Small pockets in India had taken off in the 1920's, for
example the Jamshedpur steel region and some of the Bombay textile
areas ; but the country as a whole had certainly not taken off. Similarly,
if for a nation one took its legal definition comprising all subjects who
owed common allegiance to a sovereign then the principal country of a
colonial empire might have taken off, but the nation as a whole would
hardly be found to have done so.
Mr. Mathur also wondered if the economic historians were not a
little too indifferent over the way the take-off took place. For economic
history to be a satisfactory guide to future planning, the experience of
the past must not only be described but evaluated with reference to what
was alternatively possible. The lack of data was perhaps a restriction
on such studies but the method of the military historian could perhaps
be followed. For instance, one would like to know how much of the
man-power and capital resources or technical knowledge were left un-
utilised and why, and also how big was the deviation from an efficient
02 3~
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
programme of capital accumulation in the sense described by Professors
Dorfman, Samuelson, and Solow.
Professor North took up Professor Landes' point about the traditional
character of the Rostow scheme. He had grown up as an economic
historian to talk of the prerequisites of the industrial revolution and of
the industrial revolution itself. That scheme looked very much like
Professor Rostow's. These traditional views came from Toynbee and
Mantoux, who looked on experience in the U.K. as something radical
and explosive. This U.K. experience had been extraordinary, and the
U.K. had been a leader ; yet the scheme had remained and Professor
Rostow had rationalized it and brought in some economics. Nevertheless,
fundamentally it was the same scheme.
Good or not, it was an inadequate scheme to explain what had hap-
pened since Britain's industrial revolution, with the succession of leader
and follo'\l'er. When he had himself studied U.S. development, he had
found the scheme inadequate and had been forced to start again from the
beginning. Perhaps one would have to do the same for most European
countries.
Professor North said that as he had listened for several days to the
discussion, he had been struck how Professor Rostow kept bridging parts
of experience in other countries into his scheme. We were now very
far from the original Rostow scheme, with the result so shapeless that the
original scheme had vanished.
Returning to his own views on the U.S.A., Professor North said that
Professor Kuznets had complained that he had ignored the civil war.
His own point on the civil war had been that not only had the North
been able to defeat the South; it had also been able to grow during that
decade, and the growth had continued.
Professor Boudeville agreed with Professor Landes that a study of
sectors was more important than an aggregate study so far as historical
growth was concerned. But was the modern growth of underdeveloped
countries going to follow the same lines when the economic environment
was so different ? What had remained invariant for these countries ?
What had changed to their advantage ? What had changed to their
detriment? Were these the three fundamental questions?
It was generally agreed that capital coefficients, and hence capital
cost, had increased since the early nineteenth century. But had one to
deduce from this that growth in a harder world was more difficult nowa-
days? Was it not necessary to distinguish between the scarcity of capital
and its high financial cost on one hand and the greater awilability of
knowledge and the higher physical productivity of investment on the
other. Professor Boudeville could not see why the cost of development
would not also fall.
Finally~ were the precise differences between past leading sectors so
important when technical and international conditions had changed for
the taking-off countries. What was more important was present potential
markets. From the economist's point of view one had to stress the
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Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
contrast existing between a good knowledge of 5-year growth models
and a very poor one of 15-year growth models. 'Prospective' in the
French meaning of the word, where successive waves of investment had
to alter the actual optimum structure valued at tomorrow's accounting
costs, and to adapt it to a population growth itself a function of economic
structure. 'Prospective' could not be thought of as a simple projection
of yesterday and Professor Boudeville felt certain that the remaining
papers in the conference would raise the problem of structural change
more and more.
TENTH SESSION
THE DISCUSSION OF PROFESSOR LEIBENSTEIN'S
PAPER ON 'POPULATION GROWTH AND THE TAKE-
OFF HYPOTHESIS'
Professor Cipolla introduced the paper. He said that Professor
Leibenstein had been a pioneer in linking demography and economics in
the context of long-run economic growth. He saw demography not as
an exogenous phenomenon but as one which fitted into the system. The
paper under discussion was a product of this long-standing interest, and
he would like to consider it as it appeared to an economic historian.
If one looked at population before the industrial revolution, one got
the impression that it was held in the • Malthusian trap'. Whatever the
country, one found that the gross birth rate was usually about 30-55 per
thousand. With death rates around 25-35 per thousand, this gave one
a population growth rate of 0·5-1·5 per cent per annum. But this growth
soon ran into difficulties, and a peak in the death rate eliminated a high
percentage of the population.
If, in 1750 one looked back, one could argue that Malthus had been
basically right. Looking forward, one found a change. There were no
more dismal peaks in the death rate that characterized previous European
history. The disappearance of these peaks itself provoked a population
explosion, which was further exaggerated when, in the nineteenth cen-
tury, 'normal' death rates started to fall, and fell more quickly than
birth rates. Eventually, the birth rate also fell and a new equilibrium was
established with low death and birth rates. The 'population explosion'
was, in the European experience, part of a more or less balanced aggre-
gate of changes, and if population grew, production also steadily increased.
Thanks to the industrial revolution, the European population was able
to escape the Malthusian trap.
If one looked at modern underdeveloped areas, one found something
very different indeed. The diffusion of Western medical techniques
had resulted in lowering the death rate while the birth rate remained
high. Population was therefore 'exploding'. However, in Europe the
growth had been a direct result of improved productivity, as part of a
balanced process which not only led to more mouths to feed but also
.f.OI
The Ecanomics of T ake-o.IJ into Sustained GrO'Wth
gave the means to feed them. In underdeveloped countries today, the
population explosion appeared as the result of foreign developments -
more mouths to feed, but no local capacity to feed them. It was this
problem that Professor Leibenstein sought to solve through a period of
take-off during which income could grow more rapidly than population.
Professor Robinson found what Professor Leibenstein said about the
relation between population and growth on pages 174-7 and 178-80 some-
what puzzling. His instincts were all with Professor Leibenstein when the
latter said that population problems were a vehicle for explaining self-
sustained backwardness. He would remind Professor Leibenstein that
Indian economic historians had believed just this ; that there had been
long periods during which income per head had been falling. This
Malthusian part of the paper had to be contrasted with what Professor
Kuznets had said about the U.S.A.- that population growth had made
a positive contribution to growth of income per head. While Professor
Leibenstein had been assuming the diminishing returns which a Malthusian
background implied, it was equally clear that Professor Kuznets had been
assuming rapidly increasing returns.
In commenting on the U.S.A., Professor North had suggested that
specialization had been a major dynamic force. At the 1957 lEA con·
ference in Lisbon, the question studied had been whether there was an
economic advantage for a nation of having a population of 200 or 250
million, rather than of 50 or 15, and just how size affected income and
income per head. The conclusion seemed to be that internal economies
were singularly unimportant, since most of the countries considered had
plants of much the same size. As between countries like Belgium, France,
the U.K. and the U.S.A., differences were in the degree of specialization,
in the opportunities for the vertical disintegration of specialist concerns
and in the degree of competition in the economy.
Professor Robinson said that the conference in Lisbon had found
more evidence for the importance of this kind of increasing return than
he had originally expected, and had therefore concluded that nations
could be too small.• It seemed likely that populations could also be too
small relatively to area for rapid growth. Professor Robinson suggested
that if we looked at underdeveloped areas it was very useful to separate
those countries where diminishing returns were weak, and increasing
returns strong, from those where Malthus was still hard at work. If this
were done, one had a vivid contrast between India and Pakistan on the
one hand and Africa on the other. In Mrica, a bigger market was often
an important prerequisite of growth. There were many possibilities for
increasing returns which simply did not exist in Asia. For example,
Uganda had too small a market to make it worth setting up a steel works.
The small scale of many of the economies in Africa was a major problem.
Professor Robinson thought it was also important to bring in the
last part of Professor Leibenstein's paper, where he considered the adjust·
ment of fertility rates. He had himself always liked to distinguish •Mal
thusian' effects from ' Brentano ' effects - the differences between fertility
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rates in richer countries, with better education, and in poorer ones. The
richer countries had lower fertility rates than the poorer ones. In the
earlier period, the factors which had offset Malthusian diminishing returns
had been not only the increased production which resulted from modern
science, but the fact that science had provided substitutes for land. There
were not .only better seeds and fertilizers, but better machines in place
of horses, and so on. This was one reason why the Malthusian effects
had been postponed. To escape from the Malthusian situation, it was
necessary to have a period during which income grew more rapidly than
population ; but how long would that period need to be ? In the early
stages seventy-five years had been required, but now twenty years was
sufficient. He was greatly impressed by experience in Japan, where
fertility rates had been halved since 1945. But all this was concerned
with what happened after take-off, and he had great sympathy with those
in India who regarded an attack on fertility rates as a pre-condition for
take-off. Was it really beyond our powers to discover some means for
controlling fertility, even in a country with a rural population that was as
poor as it was in India ?
These population problems meant that one only got sustained growth
once the demographic break-through had been achieved. Perhaps it was
related to Professor Rosenstein-Rodan's 'big push', the major question
being the length of the period over which the break-through was achieved.
Again, there was the question whether an increase in rural population
precluded increased industrialization. He did not think one could have
an increasingly impoverished rural population alongside an advancing
industrial one, because advancing rural incomes were needed to provide
part of the incentive to industrialize. Probably part of the working
capital of industry had to be the surplus from agricultural production.
This surplus was needed to make possible exports to pay for the imports
required by industrialization, to supply food to the towns, and to eliminate
or reduce imports of food. Professor Robinson did not see how one
could escape Malthusian forces by regarding the rural population as
wholly separate from industrial.
Dr. Singer thought one might answer this last question by inverting
the process. He wondered whether, with extreme overpopulation,
industrialization was not a pre-condition for raising agricultural pro-
ductivity, and he was not sure that an agricultural surplus was necessary.
He thought that the predestined role for a country like India was as an
exporter of industrial products. He could not conceive of a fall in the
rural standard of living resulting from industrialization, but thought that
industrialization would result in a spreading of rising incomes as popu-
lation left the land and agricultural productivity rose.
As for Professor Robinson's other points, Professor Kuznets had said
that economic growth depended on expanding the stock of knowledge,
and he thought this was the key. The more people existed, the likelier
the chances of producing scientific geniuses. He would like to support
strongly the suggestion that the distinction between countries with
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
increasing and with decreasing returns was important. He would, how-
ever, throw in the additional point that societies in some underdeveloped
countries lived in almost unbelievable isolation. In some parts of Ethiopia,
for example, one would have to establish the pre-conditions in virtually
every village separately. This was quite as serious an obstacle to growth
as overpopulation.
On Professor Leibenstein's paper, Professor Singer noted that on
page 175 Professor Leibenstein appeared to regard an increase of per capita
income as the criterion for an improvement. Yet a lengthening of the
individual life might be equally an improvement, which would mean
that a fall in the death rate was in itself an improvement in the standard
of living. As for the discussion of stationary populations on page 172, it
was important to remember that what happened would depend on whether
the stationary population resulted from high or low birth and death rates.
The burden of dependency would be greater the higher these were. A
stationary population did not by any means imply low dependency.
On page 175, while it was true that population pressure was an obvious
reason why low rates of investment did not work, it was not the only
reason. All that was required was that a 'big push' should give increas-
ing emphasis to cumulative effects. For example, social overhead capital
worked more effectively as there was more population. Growing con-
nexions between internal markets would have the same kind of result,
as would many other factors. Finally, on pages 177-8, the discussion of
falling mortality rates suggested that their impact was on the lowest age
group. Dr. Singer said that in a discussion of this point at the World
Population Conference in 1954, he had suggested that the strongest effect
was on the 15-30 age group and not the 0-15 group. The results were
even more favourable economically speaking than Professor Leibenstein
had suggested, since this group was available for work.
Mr. Boserup wanted to add some comments to Professor Leibenstein's
remarks on the relationship between investment and population growth
in traditional, pre-take-off societies. Professor Leibenstein might be
right that there was no evidence of secularly declining per capita income,
but it was scarcely justifiable to argue from that fact that population
growth could not have been autonomous. It was only apparently a sur-
prising coincidence that investment tended always to be just about what
was needed to keep per capita income constant. In a primitive and
traditional agrarian community there was, almost by definition, no con-
ception or vision of progress. Attitudes to effort and leisure were linked
to survival at a customary standard of living. But by the same token
one could expect very strong resistance to any tendency for a fall below
that customary standard. Therefore, in such a community, an autonomous
rise in population would by itself call forth the effort in terms of invest-
ment and savings which was needed to eliminate its effects. Thus, the
constancy, in the past, of per capita incomes at low levels could quite
plausibly be reconciled with an hypothesis of autonomous population
growth. As for the possibilities of take-off in underdeveloped countries
404
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
in the present situation of accelerated population growth, he would agree
with Professor Leibenstein's main thesis with the slight modification that
to some limited extent the population problem did take care of itself,
for population growth elicited an additional effort in the subsistence
sector of the economy which would not have been forthcoming in its
absence.
Professor Solow wanted to try to make more precise, though more
formal, the partial model which underlay Professor Leibenstein's basic
conclusion about the role of population growth in the theory of the
minimum but large effort required to give sustained growth. In doing
this, he would explain one point of disagreement with Professor Leiben-
stein. The conclusion that if population growth were an exogenous
obstacle, then one could not explain the various occasions where there
had been constant or rising per capita income was not necessarily true.
Once diminishing returns were brought into the picture, then one could
produce a model which did make the phenomenon at least possible.
For the moment he would exclude technical progress, except to
remind Professor Robinson of J. S. Mill's remark that the only thing in
the world not subject to diminishing returns was knowledge. It was
also probable that population growth was not significant in isolation, but
only in relation to the amounts of the other factors of production that
were available. This all linked up with what Professor Robinson had
been saying about increasing returns.
Professor Solow first took a situation where there were diminishing
returns, so that the relation between output per head and capital per
head was as in Fig. 1.
As population rose, he assumed that participation rates were constant,
so that the rise in the population was paralleled by a rise in the labour
force. The relation between output per head and capital per head would
then be given by the curve OF, the fall in the steepness of the slope of
the curve as one moved towards the right showing diminishing returns.
Given the level of capital per head (OK0 ), the length of the ordinate (Kof'0 )
gave one output per head. If the savings ratio were 5 per cent, then
saving per head would represent one-twentieth of the ordinate (KoX)·
Assuming that savings and investment were equal, one could therefore
add KoX to capital per head in the next period. This one could do by
drawing the line xK1, at 45°,
which gave capital per head as
OK1 and output per head as Output F
K 1F 1 for the next period. The per head
process could then continue, Oo t------71"
with a not very rapid rise in
output per head, and a falling
rate of growth of output. X
Professor Solow then took 1 --C~a-p-it-a.,..l per
r:.__ _ ____.Ko=-K-
n:
of growth of labour force multiplied by the amount of capital per head,
s;
one got the straight line shown on Fig. 2. Thus Fig. 2 showed that
n:.
at low levels of capitalization the curve was above the straight line
Anywhere below the point where the two curves cut, there were
excess savings available for increasing capital intensity. Beyond this
point, the existence of diminishing returns meant that there were not
sufficient savings to maintain capital per head, so that the only way out
might be a change in participation rates if the rate of growth of output
per head were to be sustained. Only at the point of intersection would
there be equilibrium, with thrift, productivity, and population growth
so balanced as just to keep the capital intensity of production constant.
406
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
Rate of +Ve
growth of
population
_y,
FIG. 3.
But this position was not reached by pure coincidence ; if one started
from any point to the right or left of it forces were set in operation which
induced a movement towards it. The inevitable evolution of the system
would be toward this one equilibrium point.
Professor Solow said this was why he took issue with Professor Lei ben-
stein and insisted that diminishing returns could be part of an explanation
of what had been the fate of a large part of the world. However, the
difference was not very important because, on other grounds, he agreed
that treating population growth as a purely exogenous factor was not an
intellectually satisfying procedure.
He would therefore proceed to treat n not as a constant but as a vari-
able which responded to economic conditions. He would assume that
n, the rate of growth of population, was related, for simplicity, to the
amount of capital per head. He would postulate that at very low levels
of capital per head n was negative, but that as capital per head (and
therefore income) rose, so did n, until it reached an upper limit and then
turned down again. This was shown in Fig. 3.
It is now possible to redraw Fig. 2 to take account of this, as he had
done in Fig. 4. The curve ~ now took a shape similar to that in Fig. 3,
and the diagram had three main sections. In the first phase, the savings
curve lay above the population curve (range a). Over the range b, one
Output
per head
Capital per
head
FIG. 4.
407
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
nad the rate of growth of population above that of savings, and a con-
sequent fall in capital intensity. Beyond this was the range c, in which
savings were again sufficient, because of the fall in population growth, to
allow capital deepening. Thus if one started from a low level of capital
intensity, the system would increase that intensity steadily up to the
point X. Beyond that, unless the system could get past Y, there would
be a tendency to return to X. Nevertheless, if the system could get as
far as Y, there was the possibility of renewed increases in both income
and capital per head.
Professor Rostow said that the curve showing diminishing returns from
the outset implied that land and knowledge were fixed from the initial
period. He would like Professor Solow to allow for the raising of the
curve to allow for changes in knowledge.
Professor Solow replied that there were many other possibilities. A
change in technical possibilities would raise the ~ curve - as would
a rise in the (constant) savings ratio. If this happened, a situation might
well arise where the ~ curve was far enough above the x-axis for there
to be no point of contact between it and the ": curve. At all levels of
population growth, or per capita income, the society would be able to
deepen capital. Professor Solow added that while he thought that tech-
nical progress was the most important way in which this could happen,
he did not think one should minimize the effects of a rise in the savings
ratio or a fall in the rate of population growth brought about by conscious
efforts.
Mr. Berrill thought there were some obvious examples, Australia for
example, where population inflow had helped growth. But there were
countries like Ceylon and Mauritius where increasing population had
been harmful. This was not merely a question of the shortage of land ;
population was often unwilling to move to places where land was more
plentiful.
On past history, Mr. Berrill thought that India did show a fall in
real income per head since 1880. He also thought that very low agri-
cultural incomes in some parts of the country need not prevent take-off
elsewhere. This was a judgment about the past and not a comment on
the position today. Nowadays voters could not allow large agricultural
sectors to suffer, while they sat by. They demanded health and welfare
services and the government was forced to respond in a way that meant
that it was much more difficult to have this dichotomy today.
Mr. Berrill suggested that in the past too much attention had been
given to the part played by the death rate in increasing population. Not
enough stress had been laid on variations in the birth rate, both between
countries and over time. Current discussions of the birth rate had to
accept the fact that the situation was much more complicated today. It
wa! not merely a question of waiting for higher incomes or the spread
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Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
of birth control to reduce population. Japan had achieved a dramatic
fall in birth rates by legalized abortion, subsidized contraceptives, and
so on; but it was probable that such methods would not succeed else-
where. One often found that fertility was connected with the availability
of land, the absence or presence of jobs for women, education, religion,
and many other similar factors.
Since it was impossible to prevent the death rate from falling - we
could not hold back health measures - we had to improve the lot of
the existing population by improving education, welfare schemes, and
incomes while concentrating on trying to lower the birth rate. This
would be very complicated, and in view of its limited role historically he
thought unwise to suppose that it could help very much. The idea that
the fall in the birth rate could be achieved in 25 rather than 75 years
was attractive, but he thought that what was possible would differ from
case to case, and that much detailed study of these individual cases was
needed.
Professor Bentzel recalled that on pages 172-4 of his paper, Professor
Leibenstein said that a model with zero growth was not plausible and
that some net saving was likely. Professor Bentzel did not see why this
should be so. Professor Leibenstein's arguments were not convincing;
the fact that there are people with positive savings did not guarantee a
positive net saving in the community; we must not forget all those who
had negative savings. Were there not historical examples of countries
which we could regard as stationary in most respects ?
Professor Rostow said that the Leibenstein paper dramatized the effort
required to surmount the population barrier, and also the bonus that
one got in the shape of a fall in fertility rates if take-off occurred. But
population was not a simple variable. People consumed food, provided
labour, and used non-agricultural goods. Making any judgment on the
relation between population and economic development became a ques-
tion of the balance between the need for a supply of workers for industrial-
ization and enough consumers' demand to stimulate activity without
diverting resources from investment. If one looked at the rate of popu-
lation increase during historical experience of take-off, the rate had been
around 1·5 per cent in the U.K., 0·5 per cent in France, 1 per cent in
Germany, 3 per cent in the U.S.A., a little over 1 per cent in Japan and
about 2 per cent in Russia. What could we conclude ?
In the U.K. the population situation had been good. There had been
a sufficient increase in output to prevent any acute pressure on food,
while the changing structure of industry worked with the natural increase
of population to provide an adequate labour force. Up to 1790, at least,
the real incomes of consumers had been rising and so had sustained
demand. In France it was probable that the rise in population had not
been optimal. There had been no pressure on food supplies, and perhaps
there had been some lack of a push from the countryside. There might
have been a relative weakness in consumer demand, outside the cities, for
non-agricultural consumer goods. Perhaps the French case was untypical.
409
Tke Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
In Germany, on the other hand, Professor Rostow thought condi-
tions had been nearly perfect, apart from a slight pressure on food sup-
plies. In the U.S.A., in the early days, good land had been in ample
supply and the consequently high output per head had delayed industrial-
ization somewhat. Perhaps there had been some conflict between the
richness of the natural resources and. industrial development. Professor
Rostow suggested that perhaps Japan's inability to increase consumption
in the rural market led her to look abroad to what Professor Tsuru regarded
as an excessive extent. Russia had obviously experienced population
pressure in the existing circumstances and this had led to problems of
domestic demand and to pressure on the food supply. This was partly
because Russia had not eliminated the feudal system as rapidly as Japan
had.
Looking at the investment function, Professor Rostow said that there
were two important factors. The first was, how much of the population
was urban, the second was the assumption that growing income was a
normal phenomenon. He was sure that there were ways of summarizing
what had been said in terms of leaps or windfalls in the stock of capital
or discontinuous shifts in productivity ; but we must look directly at the
sub-functions of investment for the take-off sectors and for the sectors
crucial in the pre-conditions ; i.e. education, social overhead capital, etc.
There were also changes in the investment function in agriculture, and
shifts in technology. One therefore had to allow for the flow of industrial
technology, for shifts in agriculture and transport, and for education, as
well as, possibly, foreign trade. Disaggregation was the key to growth
analysis.
We might well decide in the end that all we could do was to generalize,
but as we went through the functional papers, we might well be able to
show the relations among these sectoral shifts, and characterize their role.
Mr. Mathur referred to page 176 of Professor Leibenstein's paper where
the per capita income in non-take-off countries was considered to be
constant and found it hard to apply to an overpopulated country with a
growing population. In countries like India and Pakistan, as population
grew the quality of the soil might be falling, forests were being removed
and human capital was deteriorating because of low consumption standards.
Each day that passed makes it more difficult to take-off, for the high level
of investment required for it would encounter greater obstacles. This
might well mean that take-off at later dates would not be possible without
substantial foreign aid. He pointed to Professor Gerschenkron's analysis
in which there were certain times which were particularly favourable to
take-off, and, if such an opportunity were missed,. it might well be very
difficult to take-off later on.
As regards Professor Solow's contribution Mr. Mather said it failed
to answer the question for which it was produced - Professor Robinson's
point about diminishing and increasing returns in a country. Professor
Solow had presented a two-dimensional production function of the
Wicksellian type which could only deal with the diminishing additional
410
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
productivity of investment per man as an economy used techniques with
a higher degree of mechanization by comparisons with another economy
using a less mechanized technique. But each technique within its economy
was supposed to be operating at constant returns to scale. In this sense,
the production function was a purely engineering phenomenon and would
be basically the same in whichever country the technology might be used.
Increasing or decreasing returns for a given technique within one country
depended upon the wealth of its resources in relation to the density of
population. It required a third axis to represent it diagrammatically.
Professor Solow said that for the record he would beg to differ. (He
commented in writing later that one must distinguish carefully between
increasing returns to scale and increasing returns to variable proportions,
The latter could be dealt with in his diagram just by altering the curvature
of the Q/N curve. In the case of increasing or decreasing returns to
scale, one could not proceed solely in terms of intensive variables, so that
plane diagrams would not do. But in neither case did any fundamental
difficulty arise, so long as we were not worrying about competition or
other market equilibrium. Obviously, if there were increasing returns to
scale or increasing marginal productivity of capital, the case for a critical
minimum effort lay very close to the surface. One might call this the
'infant country argument'. But he was quite unclear about the force of
Dr. Mathur's remark. Among the differences between the U.S. and
India were differences in natural resource endowment, in already achieved
capital formation and income per head, in the level of technology - it was
very important to understand this - and in the skill and training of the
labour force. Clearly not all such circumstantial detail could be incor-
porated into a diagram, but any of these differences was amenable to the
same kind of analysis, if Dr. Mathur would specify which he meant.
Professor Leibenstein summed up, saying that all he had tried to do
was to give a brief sketch of what he thought was involved in the popu-
lation element in growth, though it was likely that other people might
hold very different ideas. It was impossible to draw up a model that was
historically sound, since we did not have all the facts, and did not believe
all those that we had. What he had been able to do was to give some
broad trends and ideas. Actual population movements were obviously
much more complicated, and he had merely presented a few trends on
which there was broad agreement.
So far as what he had to say was related to Professor Rostow's thesis,
Professor Leibenstein thought that this model fitted better into the pre-
take-off period - into the pre-conditions. Professor Rostow' s thesis
itself turned out to be much less simple than the original statement of
it had suggested. What Professor Leibenstein had originally thought the
thesis implied was that there was some point at which a series of events
raised investment and led to growth. The time period did not seem then
to have been taken very seriously.
The criterion which Professor Leibenstein used to denote growth
was a rise in income per head. When a country was backward this would
411
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
be constant, or changing very slowly. Then, one had a change in the
situation which led to sustained growth. Professor Leibenstein felt that
population pressures explained 'sustained stationariness' rather than the
take-off. In aeronautical terms, it explained why the runway was too
short for take-off, but not how it could be lengthened. The next ques-
tion was whether one could have a theory based entirely on exogenous
population growth. If population were constant, most countries would
either have a positive rate of investment, with gradual growth, or a
negative rate of investment, with progressive decline. He had said that
this latter situation was rarely supported by historical evidence, but he
had not said that one could not invent a model to explain the situation.
In attempting to build a model which fitted the main facts he had inevitably
missed out on others.
This led to the question whether population growth could possibly
be a wholly exogenous factor. He stood completely behind what he had
said in his paper. As a result, one of the main points in his paper had
been the notion of induced population growth, and he regarded changes
in the death rate as mainly responsible for this in backward countries,
and the birth rate in more advanced ones. The usual belief was that
induced population growth declined with rising income per head. At low
levels of income, fertility rates were roughly constant, and this was the
traditional stage. Mortality was the only factor markedly sensitive to
changes in income per head. Second, there was the transition stage,
where there was some decline in fertility rates - a crude fertility response.
Finally, one had the advanced, highly-urban economy where fertility
rates were highly sensitive to higher real income.
Professor Leibenstein suggested that the vast difference between
underdeveloped and developed areas did not lie in the levels of fertility
rates, but in the degree of their response to changes in income. In the
transitional stage there was some response in the end, as changes in
urbanization, production functions, and career opportunities took place,
and as a belief in the future permanence of sustained growth took hold.
As for what caused changes in fertility rates, this was very hard to say.
One's students could easily list twenty or twenty-five factors which affected
fertility rates, but it was hard to go further. For example, it seemed that
movement from the country to the town would lower fertility rates but
it was not true that all cities had low fertility rates. Indian cities had
high ones ; urbanization as such did not help. The nature of the response
was therefore something that we did not understand well, though he
would stress the importance of the feeling that new economic opportuni-
ties were now open, for which having a large family was a handicap.
Perhaps, also, one's approach was more rational and calculating when
one was richer.
Replying to specific points, Professor Leibenstein said that Professor
Robinson had suggested that perhaps the 'push' might in some way be
connected with the population situation. He thought this was right. The
size and duration of the push required would depend on it. If he was
-1U
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
right in thinking that the rate of fertility decline depended on the rate
at which new career opportunities developed, and the rate at which people
moved off the land into new environments, then there should be a con-
nexion between the size of the push and the available job opportunities.
There was also the important question of the kind of push - the kind
of situation created by the investment. Many of the statistics suggested
that, between groups, the higher the income was the lower was the fertility
rate. Within the group, however, it seemed that a higher income went
with a higher fertility rate. This made sense in terms of responses.
Moving into a new group led to new economic _possibilities, and made
it an economic advantage to have fewer children. Within the group, it
was the other way round.
Dr. Singer had mentioned the burden of dependency, and he would
like time to think over these interesting comments which suggested that
it was important, even with a stationary population, whether death rates
and birth rates were both high or both low. Mr. Boserup had suggested
that in backward societies there was a likelihood that more difficult condi-
tions would be met by members of the society working and straining
harder. This might be true, he was not sure. He thought one must
make a distinction between what happened in a specific situation, which
was all that any one individual could see, and what happened in the
economy as a whole. In a rural area it was very likely that farmers would
borrow from moneylenders ; they would increase their indebtedness,
rather than try to invest. He did not see that this situation was much
more encouraging than the one he had himself suggested.
Professor Leibenstein said that Professor Solow had produced a series
of models giving similar results to his own. The only major change he
would suggest was the bringing in of fertility decline. Mr. Berrill had
suggested that a population increase could lead to either increasing or
diminishing returns, and he would merely ask where one started, while
not denying the possibility of increasing returns. For example, was one
dealing with the coming of the white man, or with an indigenous popu-
lation ? White immigrants would often bring with them new techniques,
and therefore a great leap in production possibilities. With new tech-
niques, there might be a stage of increasing returns, but this was a special
situation.
ELEVENTH SESSION
THE DISCUSSION OF PROFESSOR LEIBENSTEIN'S
PAPER ON TECHNICAL PROGRESS, THE PRODUCTION
FUNCTION AND DEVELOPMENT
Professor Marczewski introduced the paper, pointing out that Professor
Leibenstein voluntarily limited the model to cover the situation where
investment in modernization was held back not by a shortage of savings
but by a lack of willingness to invest. This was a situation which economic
.of.IJ
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
analysis had tended to ignore. Professor Leibenstein showed how, at a
certain stage, investment received a stimulus which had not existed
before take-off. What he tried to explain was why technical progress
was very low before take-off, and very high afterwards.
The key to the paper was the assumption that the possibilities for
technical progress increased as capital increased relatively to labour -
as capital intensity grew - so that possible combinations of capital and
labour increased as one moved up the isoquant in Fig. 1. This implied
that when wages were low, as in underdeveloped areas, the number of
profitable combinations was not large. It would require a big rise in
wages to make any alternative combination preferable. As big rises in
real income were not possible, new production functions would call for
a rise in productivity, and that would require more investment. So one
had a vicious circle. Entrepreneurs were not interested in modifying
production functions, and very high investment per head was necessary
to make them prepared to do so. In developed countries, even a small
increase in wage rates would lead entrepreneurs to modify production
functions.
Professor Marczewski said that he would look at two main points.
First, was it true that one had this discontinuity in the production function,
with greater possibilities for technical progress, with a higher capital-labour
ratio ? He was not convinced that greater capital intensity was the true
basis for rapid take-off. He did not agree with the statement on page 193
that ' Inventions are easier to achieve when the processes involved are
simple rather than complex'. Must one agree that inventions became
simpler to make as capital per head rose ? Could there possibly be a
simpler invention than the thread used to cut butter ?
Professor Marczewski suggested that perhaps the key difference lay
in the effect on marginal wage cost and marginal capital cost for every
one per cent rise in wages. He thought that with these two variables it
was easy to explain why investment and modernization was easier to
stimulate in advanced than in backward countries. There was no need
to bring in discontinuous production functions. There were other reasons
why underdeveloped areas found investment more difficult than developed
ones. Professor Leibenstein assumed the perfect substitutability of labour
and capital. Yet substitutability was not complete, but only partial.
Indeed, there was often complementarity, and that was mentioned only
once in the paper. More precisely, each unit of capital often required
a corresponding amount of labour to work with it. Substitutability was
much harder to achieve than Professor Leibenstein's model might suggest.
Each unit of capital required a certain quantity and a certain quality of
labour. It was only when a certain degree of industrial and mercantile
development had been reached that a reserve of sufficiently able labour
became available to adopt new production functions quickly.
A major difference between modern and former underdeveloped areas
was that the modern backward countries did not have sufficiently adapt-
able labour to allow changes in the production function, which required
414
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
adaptable workers. In the old days, the artisan in countries like the U.K.,
France, and Germany could easily learn new methods of production which
were introduced gradually as a result of technical progress. There was
no need to make the kind of leap that modern underdeveloped areas
were trying to make - a leap into the unknown with centuries to be
caught up. Outside Europe, only countries like China and Japan had
had a very large number of artisans in the pre-take-off period, and this
put them in a more favourable position.
Professor Marczewski wondered whether it were true that nothing
but the availability of labour prevented the rapid adoption of new methods
and techniques. The entrepreneur also had to face competition, as well
as having a desire to cut prices and expand sales. There was also the
engineer's desire to develop new processes, whether these were economi-
cally profitable or not. It was not possible to reduce everything to a
comparison of the cost of labour and the cost of the machine. And when
there was not complete substitutability between capital and labour,
everything could certainly not be reduced to a question of relative wage
and capital cost.
Finally, the size of the market was an important exogenous variable.
New production functions could not be established unless producers
could count on a minimum volume of sales. From this point of view,
the modern underdeveloped countries were badly placed. They could
not easily sell in third markets, and even if pure numbers of consumers
made their home markets seem large, purchasing power was very low.
A producer in an underdeveloped area could not count on a good internal
market. This was not just a theoretical idea. Professor Marczewski said
he had studied developments in Eastern Europe, which showed that the
restricted character of the domestic markets there was the main obstacle
to take-off between the wars. The relatively over-populated Eastern
European countries could not export agricultural produce because of
severe competition from new countries with more extensive agriculture.
Nor could they compete in industry with the more developed industrial
countries of Western Europe and North America. This was the reason
for the difficulties of Eastern Europe before the war. These difficulties
were by no means reducible to a question of substitutability between
capital and labour.
Professor Bentzel found Professor Leibenstein's analysis a little con-
fusing. One of the reasons why was that the wage rate was regarded
as an exogenous factor in the model. But, in a growth process, changes
in real wages could be realized only as a result of the growth itself and
therefore, in an analysis, such changes had to be treated as endogenous
variables. Regarded as an exogenous factor in a growth model, the wage
rate must be interpreted as the nominal and not the real wage rate. Pro-
fessor Bentzel thought that Professor Leibenstein had not paid enough
attention to this. Therefore his results were not convincing.
With a slight conceptual modification, Fig. 1 in Professor Leibenstein's
paper could be looked upon as showing the minimum amounts of capital
41 5
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
and labour necessary to produce one unit of output. Accordingly, the
axes had to be interpreted as amount of labour per unit of output, say n,
and amount of capital per unit of output, say k. In such a diagram the
isocost lines had the equations
c =nw +kq(r +d)
for different values of c, the unit cost. Here w was the wage rate, q the
price of capital goods, r the rate of interest and d the rate of depreciation
In perfect competition there was equality between minimum unit
cost and price, so that the isocost tangent to the isoquant had the equation
1 =nw + kq(r +d)
p p
According to this formula the ratios p_ and -- ( p d) were the values of the
w qr+
points of intersection between the tangent isocost and the n- and k-axes.
In his analysis, Professor Leibenstein had proceeded from the idea
that a wage increase - if sufficiently great - should be followed by a
move of the point of tangency along the isoquant to the left and upwards,
as a result of a change in the slope of the isocost lines. Such a move
must, however, imply a move of the point of intersection between the
tangent i&ocost and the k-axes. But, as could be seen from the formula,
for given interest and depreciation rates this could be realized only if
there was an increase in the quotient between the price level of the goods
produced in the sector under consideration and the price level of capital
goods. This, obviously, could happen only if the wage rise was strictly
limited to the special sector under consideration. As soon as the wage
rise in this sector was followed by a wage rise in the sector producing
capital goods - which we must imagine to happen in a growth process
- the price of capital goods would increase and the original price ratios
would be restored. When this had happened the situation in all sectors
was precisely the same as at the starting-point of the analysis, i.e. before
the wage increases had started. The only exception was if the nominal
price level had been raised.
In Professor Bentzel's opinion Professor Leibenstein's model- re-
garded as a general growth model - implied that a process of economic
growth must be associated with a continuing increase in the price level
of consumer goods as compared with the price level of capital goods.
Such a feature, however, was not consistent with available empirical
findings. The crucial point in Professor Leibenstein's analysis was,
according to Professor Bentzel, that he took it for granted that an exo-
genous- i.e. a purely nominal- wage rise implied a shift in the price
ratio between labour and capital. However, as the price of capital goods
was determined by costs of production, that price must be influenced
by a wage rise to the same extent as the prices of other goods.
Further, Professor Leibenstein's assumptions as to the patterns of
change of the isoquants were said to lead to another conflict between
416
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
theory and empirical findings. Professor Leibenstein's results must
imply that the growth process was followed by an increase in the capital-
output ratio. But statistics for the long-term trend of this ratio indicated
that it was constant or falling. The U.S. figures, given by Fabricant,
and the Norwegian figures given by Professor Aukrust, showed a very
sharp decline in the capital-output ratio. Such a decline was not con-
sistent with Professor Leibenstein's model. It was, however, fully con-
sistent with a more traditional model assuming that new inventions meant
an overall shift in the isoquants.
Professor Delivanis thought the paper gave a plausible explanation of
why investment was higher with high wages. He also thought, however,
that one should not forget what Keynes had said about the importance
of having good entrepreneurs. One could not achieve economic develop-
ment through capital accumulation alone, and the discussion in earlier
sessions of Russian and Belgian experience had shown the importance
of having foreign entrepreneurs to apply new techniques. Professor
Leibenstein had stressed the importance of transmitting technical pro-
gress to complementary industries. This led Professor Leibenstein to
suggest the need for government interference to establish the necessary
pre-conditions at home and, if necessary, abroad.
Perhaps we should also remember that, through patents, firms could
keep innovations to themselves. So it was not true, as Professor Leiben-
stein suggested, that new techniques would be taken up by competitors,
and that the originator would therefore lose his advantage. Perhaps
Professor Leibenstein had said too little about enterprise, though it was
important, and we had to remember that Spiethoff as well as Schumpeter
had stressed the importance of technological progress.
Mr. Mathur returned to the contention that where the capital intensity
was low there were fewer alternative techniques. He did not think this
was true and took the example of a simple operation like cooking. In
an underdeveloped country one would be able to choose between three
or four types of ovens, vessels of different types and materials, several
kinds of fuel and so on, making the different combinations run into
hundreds. If more complex operations were considered and a large
number of activities were grouped in different ways, the sub-economies
or techniques formed would be even larger. Nor did he agree that new
processes were more likely to be capital intensive. Here again, in an
underdeveloped region the number of possible innovations was great
and many of these did not require heavy use of capital. For instance,
the introduction in India of the Japanese method of dee cultivation or of
less-haphazard sowing and seed improvements would hardly require an
increase in the degree of mechanization to improve agricultural pro-
ductivity.
So far as the theoretical basis was concerned, it seemed that Professor
Leibenstein wanted to show that the inducement to invest was connected
with the shape of the production function. But the one thing which was
missing from the paper was the inducement to invest. The willingness
417
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
to invest, according to Mr. Mathur, depended upon factors unconnected
with the ex ante production function. Given the former, the latter only
determined the form in which the new investment would be embodied.
As for why underdeveloped countries did not use the most productive
techniques, Professor Leibenstein had suggested that it was because the
difference between the existing and the optimum techniques was very
great. Mr. Mathur thought that more serious obstacles were high rates
of interest, lack of knowledge or skill, lack of organizing ability, low thrifti-
ness, etc. With these the shift to an optimum technique, even one close
to the existing one, would not take place.
Mr. Mathur suggested that a fundamental objection to Professor
Leibenstein's formulation was on a point raised by Joan Robinson some
seven years back, namely, the neglect of the measurement of capital in
the production function. He did not think a realistic production function
could ever be invented in which one could put on the capital axis some-
thing that was independent of wage and interest rates. A realistic pro-
duction function required machines of different physical specifications
and as the wage changed different ones become eligible ; but the curve
itself must shift because the price of capital goods altered. Professor
Leibenstein's production function did not shift with changes in wages
and rates of interest and must be abandoned altogether. The only pro-
ductivity curves which had some logical validity were those of Joan
Robinson and David Champernowne which, Mr. Mathur said, could
easily be combined with process matrices of the Sraffa-Neumann type.
Professor Solow said that the paper tried to kill two birds with one
stone. First, it tried to deal with technical progress, and second with
the inducement to invest ; and this despite the fact that we all knew how
hard it was to kill one bird with one stone. He thought it fair to point
out that we were· only at the beginning of the econometric analysis of
technical change and that there was little realistic that we could hope to
say now. Nor was there any real chance that we could now say very
much that was useful about the inducement to invest in the nineteenth
century.
Professor Solow said that he would like to challenge one of Professor
Leibenstein's points. This was the crucial question of whether tech-
niques were more or less discontinuous at low or high levels of capital
intensity. He agreed with Dr. Mathur that the way to look at the prob-
lem was not in terms of capital and labour alone, but in terms of~many
more dimensions. The kind of question the entrepreneur faced was
how much of each kind of capital, and how much of each kind of labour,
to employ. Neo-classical economics was framed in these terms, and at
this specific level he was prepared to agree that there were big discon-
tinuities at low capital intensities- with capital and labour both (some-
how) looked on as concrete things. But he was inclined to suggest that
there was something to be gained by thinking of capital as a kind of jelly,
and he was prepared to wash out the difficulties of measurement since
rigour was not essential.
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
If one did this, he was not at all sure that the discontinuities were
greater at low rather than high capital-labour ratios. Sir Dennis
Robertson had immortalized the illustration of the ten men with spades
being replaced by nine men with slightly larger spades. On purely a
priori grounds it seemed very odd that discontinuity should be greater
at low capital intensities. As for the locus on the production function
where changes in techniques were most likely to take place, Professor
Solow suggested that these were most likely at that point on the produc-
tion function where the entrepreneur happened to be working at a par-
ticular moment. It was unlikely that an American producer, for example,
would be spending much time or energy in searching for new inventions
which required very low capital intensity.
It was therefore necessary to distinguish between pioneers and late-
comers to industrialization. The underdeveloped areas had a whole set
of past inventions to catch up on - inventions made in the developed
countries, but at a time when capital intensity was much lower. In
pioneer countries like the U.K. in the early nineteenth century, and the
U.S.A. at the end, the crucial fact was that this was a true scientific
revolution. Man could change the given elements in the system. Nowa-
days, underdeveloped countries knew the techniques, which already
existed in the engineering textbooks ; the obstacles to progress lay in the
absence of a skilled labour force, a group of active and aggressive entre-
preneurs and, despite what Professor Leibenstein said, of savings. The
adoption of new techniques would require a great deal of new capital,
and in this context capital was not jelly.
Professor Robinson wondered if he could broaden the discussion, and
bring about more communication between the model makers, applied
economists, and economic historians. Professor Cairncross had said that
one could not explain all economic progress in terms of capital investment.
In his paper to the lEA's 1953 Round Table at Santa Margherita, Pro-
fessor Cairncross had suggested that about one-quarter of progress could
be explained in these terms. More recently there had been an interesting
study of British economic development by Reddaway and Smith in which
they had tried to distinguish the extent to which increased productivity
since 1945 was caused by higher capital per head, and the extent to which
it rested on other factors. 1
Professor Robinson said that he had played with these figures and had
found that if one took the 'going rate' of capital per head, and removed
the element of growth due to increased inputs of capital and labour in
the existing proportions, it was true for Britain since 1945 that one could
only explain a quarter of growth in this way. The explanation of the
remainder lay elsewhere - in better management, know-how,. research,
education and so on. There was no econometric way of disentangling
the relative importance of these other factors, but at least it was clear
how big a part of progress was due to them. Nevertheless, we should
not underrate the part played by capital investment itself. It was the
1 Economic Journal, March 1960.
419
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
operation which changed the nature of capital, even when it was purely
a question of replacement. The benefits of such things as better layout
could only be reaped if there were gross investment, even if this meant
only replacement investment. He therefore thought that any attributing
of some improvements to extra capital and some to other elements was
too simple. The two things went together, and many new forms of pro-
gress only became possible with the introduction of new capital.
If one asked how receptivity could be increased, he agreed with what
Professor Marczewski had already said. What part could be played by
education in its most general forms ? It was necessary to produce artisans
who could accept and employ new techniques, with all the complications
these implied. He was reminded of a plant, which he had visited in
Kenya, whose management was bitterly regretting the introduction of
new, capitalistic forms of textile machinery because it had too little
maintenance staff to keep it going. If Professor Kuznets' premiss that
there was an international stock of knowledge was accepted, a major
question was what made it more or less possible to take over these tech-
niques. If we were to learn from history we had to be able not only to
interpret but to act. One of the factors favouring the transmission of
knowledge was education. Another was research. In some industries,
the world's stock of knowledge could be readily transmitted. But, above
all in agriculture, there were other fields where that general knowledge
needed to be adapted to specific local conditions before it could be success-
fully applied. So, in the U.K. for example, there was a Commonwealth
research organization which was engaged in finding how to apply these
general results to particular countries.
One also had to remember that the way in which capital was intro-
duced depended partly on whether machinery was available in particular
forms. It was not only in the stock of knowledge, but in its particular
embodiments, that conditions in the U.K. and the U.S.A. were so dif-
ferent from those in the rest of the world.
Mr. Boserup drew attention to an important case where economic
growth would be delayed by a constellation exactly opposite to that
depicted in Fig. 3 in Professor Leibenstein's paper, namely the attempted
transition from the traditional to the labour-intensive 'Japanese' method
of rice cultivation in India. This innovation would be represented by a
change (a lowering) of the lower portion of the production isoquant. But
if the budget line was fairly steep this might produce no new point of
tangency at a more labour-intensive combination of factors, just as, in
Professor Leibenstein's case, the new capital-intensive production pro-
cess, in conjunction with a relatively flat budget line, failed to be used
in the economy. The impression that the budget line in Indian agri-
culture was fairly steep, i.e. that agricultural wages were after all not so
low in comparison with prices of other inputs, was consistent with the
fact that the Japanese method had largely failed to be adopted in India
despite much propaganda. This failure was sometimes explained by
pointing to high agricultural wages or to actual scarcity of manpower .
.of-20
Hague - Summary Record of t'M Debate
Professor Cairncross was baffled by the general liking of economists
for jelly rather than jam. In real-life economics, there were 'too many
pips'. It was not possible to look on real-life relationships as continuous,
and what we needed was a new kind of 'quantum economics' where there
was enough of both continuity and discontinuity to solve real problems.
This would inevitably mean abandoning diagrams for algebra.
Once technical knowledge had been created, the question was how
it could be applied commercially. The most dramatic differences in
technique existed between countries, or even within countries, in spite
of the universal availability of new knowledge. This showed how neces-
sary it was to tailor development to suit the existing set of market circum-
stances. It was commercial development rather than basic research which
was particularly difficult. Perhaps, however, one should draw a line here
between agriculture and industry. In agriculture, modern techniques
could normally be used in relatively small units, and this ought to make
it easier to spread new techniques. But competition, the most powerful
commercial force making for industrial development, did not seem to
work in agriculture.
Professor Cairncross did not think that one could use any assumption
of continuity in studying the possible techniques available in industry.
It was not true that there was a series of possible techniques available
to suit varying relative prices of capital and labour. The main problem
was one of the diffusion of techniques, not of jumping from techniques
appropriate to cheap labour to those which implied dear labour.
As for what made this diffusion hard, Professor Cairncross suggested
that simple inertia, custom, and social institutions were the most important
elements in underdeveloped areas. These had to be tackled via educa-
tion, etc. There was no question that sheer ignorance was one reason
in underdeveloped areas for the lack of investment in modern machinery.
Often those who were in closest contact with foreigners were more aware
of w~t could be done and feared the risks of change less. But in many
underdeveloped areas the scale of operations was too small. When
purchasing power was low, and the market small, it was not always pos-
sible to use modern techniques. A machine to meet so small a market
might simply not exist. There had been no real move towards the
'miniaturization' of mechanical applicances, apart from domestic appli-
ances where the trend derived from the very large number of American
homes. The use of such applicances also presupposed the availability
of electric power, spares, etc. Engineers might help underdeveloped
areas by concentrating on ' miniaturization', but they seemed to be
moving towards larger units.
Professor Cairncross argued that where there was a movement towards
higher capital intensity, as with automation, this need not raise the capital-
output ratio. So much more output was obtained from the larger capital-
intensive investment that the ratio usually remained much as before.
In one case where there had been a choice between mechanical and
manual methods of spinning, the Indians had found that the simpler,
421
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
manually-operated machines used more capital as well as more labour
per unit of output. In the real world one did not have a nice gradation of
techniques, some for country A and some for country B. Nevertheless,
Professor Leibenstein was tackling the fundamental problem, though the
explanation probably needed to be one in terms of anthropology or
education rather than statistics. If the statistical approach were to be
tried, we probably needed more information on capital-output ratios for
different industries and for different techniques.
Mr. Berrill was sure that this was a question of choices between quite
different production functions, and not of movements along a given
function. Both capital and labour would be saved, but would often
require an increase in the scale of output that was too great for under-
developed areas. Mr. Berrill thought that one fundamental objection to
what Professor Leibenstein had written was that it was not true that
improvements were easier to make when processes were simpler. But
even if another simple technique could be found, there was a danger of
being unable to adapt labour skills to it. The movement even from the
sickle to the scythe represented a very big jump in native techniques.
On the inducement to invest, Mr. Berrill agreed that the quantity
of labour and the size of the market were both important. Yet another
important fact was that with the more capitalistic techniques each man
was responsible for a more expensive piece of capital equipment and if
he made a mistake could ruin it. For example, labour in backward
countries could do much more harm if they ruined a bulldozer rather
than a plough. There was also the nature of the expanding market itself.
It was hard to get an increase both in the size of the market and in wages.
In most underdeveloped areas it was hard to get either.
Professor Rostow agreed with Professor Cairncross that economics most
nearly resembled chunky marmalade. The discontinuities were very
marked, and depended on the way in which science and technology solved
certain problems. This set a relatively narrow range within which the
capital-labour ratio could be varied. But even when the capital intensity
was broadly set, as with the textile mill, the railroad, power from water,
and so on, there was still this narrow range for variation in the capital-
labour ratio. The marmalade contained peel as well as jelly.
One could see historically how, once the break-through had taken place,
these incremental changes occurred. If one looked at a modern economy
like the U.S.A. one found a hard core of inflexibility around which some
changes were possible. There were therefore a number of continuities
and discontinuities. There were situations where the underdeveloped
countries wanted power machinery in modern factories, but not modern
material-handling machinery, because labour was cheap.
On education, Professor Rostow agreed that this was very important,
and there were periods when good maintenance labour was scarce. But
one should not exaggerate. It was remarkable how quickly one could
achieve a high level of maintenance, through rapid education in a well-
run factory. There were excellent opportunities for education on the
.of.22
Hague - Summary &cord of the Debate
job in any factory. He did not mean to diminish the emphasis to be
accorded education in economic development but only to state that there
were only rare instances of periods when the supply of labour was short
for any substantial period of time because of an educational, as opposed
to an entrepreneurial, bottleneck. While we should not underestimate
the dangers of labour being inefficient or the need for education, we
should not be too pessimistic either. Vigorous entrepreneurs were much
morelikely to be lacking.
Professor Rostow said that in his experience anthropologists and
sociologists were not very helpful in explaining the transmission of new
techniques. He found their ideas too static and thought that they under-
estimated the speed at which techniques and approaches could be changed.
For example, they said that one could not hope for industrialization in
India unless the family system was changed. Yet the response actually
being obtained there was what the economist would have expected. One
needed the insights of the behavioural scientists, but they suffered from
the same weaknesses as the static, classical economists.
Professor Cipolla said that he could not resist Professor Robinson's
call for the co-operation of economic historians. He had been very
interested in Professor Kuznets' claim that essentially we were today
witnessing and studying the world-wide diffusion of the Industrial Revolu-
tion. However, while economists seemed generally inclined to think that
this diffusion was happening at an exceedingly slow pace, looking at
things from a long-range historical perspective, Professor Cipolla had
the feeling that the diffusion was possibly too rapid. The only event in
history which we could compare with the industrial revolution was the
neolithic discovery of agriculture. The Neolithic Revolution occurred
sometime around 9000 B.C. in the Near East, and it took 7000 years to
reach England. The industrial revolution covered the same distance
in less than 200 years. Economists might think this was slow, but as
an economic historian, Professor Cipolla was frightened by its speed. It
was bringing new techniques to societies that were not always culturally
ready for them.
Professor Gersckenkron also commented on the question of the speed
of diffusion. He thought that the present rapid speed of diffusion did
imply some dangers but that if the industrial revolution had not
stopped at the boundaries of Russia in the nineteenth century and the
early twentieth century then perhaps we should be less afraid of Soviet
Russia today than we were. Being late in this kind of process could
be just as dangerous as being early. As for the international stock of
knowledge and its diffusion, an important aspect was that of imitation.
The question was what should be taken out of this existing stock of
knowledge, and there he did see regularities. The stock of knowledge
was not homogenous, and a backward country could choose. For example,
when Russia was first building blast furnaces, she began by imitating the
U.K., later she copied Germany, and finally, after 1900, the U.S.A. In
order to get the biggest blast furnace this was the only possible procedure.
433
The Economics of Take-off into $ustained Growth
This raised the question of the connexion between capital and technology.
Russia wanted to use the most recent techniques, and was prepared to
pay the price of a higher capital intensity if this were necessary.
On the other hand, if one took a smaller country like Bulgaria, from
1900 to 1940, one had a very high rate of growth of manufacturing out-
put, but without structural changes. If one put the data into a Cobb-
Douglas function, for the first and higher orders of industry, one would
find that there had been only a negligible rise in productivity. If one
were able (which would be more difficult) to do the same thing for Russia,
one would find a big rise in productivity, and also a big rise in capital
intensity. Capital and technology had been complementary.
On the question of expanding markets, Professor Gerschenkron said
that as he read the memoirs ofRussian engineers and entrepreneurs, he
could not fail to be impressed by how forward-looking they were. First,
they feared obsolescence ; second, they were very impressed by the idea
of an expanding market, and chose the size of enterprise that was appro-
priate to the future rather than the present.
Professor Cootner wondered whether differences between historians
and model builders did not all too often arise because when the historians
saw an incorrect assumption on a diagram they assumed that the whole
analysis was incorrect. So, for example, several participants had thrown
doubt on the assumption of Fig. 1 of Professor Leibenstein's paper that
more alternative techniques were available where the process in question
was very capital intensive. To a large extent, the shape of any production
function was a question of fact. Professor Cootner said that he had
himself studied production functions, and got the impression that there
was greater variation in that region of a function where modern, advanced
economies were operating. If one looked at a modern power plant, one
could not fail to be impressed by the large number of possibilities avail-
able. This was even more true if one was careful not to confuse changes
between functions with movements along one or the other of them.
In power stations changes in thermal efficiency over large ranges of
size were not considerable. Yet people in the industry spoke of technical
change when it was merely a question of a new plant. It was important
not to confuse the two things. Professor Cairncross had suggested that
underdeveloped countries found new techniques superior, despite low
wages. This was connected with what Professor Leibenstein said on
page 186. One could have lower labour costs and still find it economic to
install capital-intensive plant.
Professor Landes returned to the capital intensity of Russian iron and
steel. His impression was that up to 1900 output per blast furnace had
been low, and he wondered if it had been ideological pressure which had
led to the introduction of bigger furnaces than the country could really
afford. It might, however, be a good policy for a follower country to
choose deliberately to use the latest technology, especially if techniques
were developing very rapidly. So, while the Russian decision to install
large blast furnaces before 1914 might seem to have been mistaken, in
424
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
the course of time, and with a high rate of growth it had been proved right.
Professor Leibenstein said it was quite clear that the scope of the dis-
cussion had been much wider than that of his paper. He had realized
that this would happen, and had said on page 186 of his paper that: 'There
is very much more to this problem of investment determination than the
points made in this paper. What follows does not pretend to be a theory
of investment. It is only part of the picture. I simply want to sketch
some notions about the nature of the production function and the nature
of technical progress that would support the type of investment functions
under which low rates of investment would exist in the pre-take-off stage,
and high rates afterwards.'
On simplification, Professor Leibenstein wondered if it really was
true that one would have more distinct and different techniques at low
capital-labour ratios than at high ones. He had suggested the opposite.
He thought that one should distinguish between past inventions that were
spectacular and which had led to a simpler process, and those made in
an advanced country, where a minute division of labour and of simplifica-
tion of manufacture meant that large numbers of individuals were each
able to concentrate on a small aspect of the production process. This
meant that large numbers of people were in a position to make improve-
ments in their own small part of the production process, and this was
why he thought that discontinuities were smaller in more advanced
countries. He agreed that one could get some very spectacular improve-
ments in advanced countries, but things went the other way too.
Professor Leibenstein said that if he were to rewrite his paper, he
would make the last points first and vice versa. He would put the third
part first and stress that the bundle of techniques from which the entre-
preneur could choose would depend very much on what was in his mind,
on the amount of information he had, and so on. In an underdeveloped
country the amount of information the entrepreneur had was small.
Knowledge was scanty, and he could only consider the few alternatives
he knew about. With this discontinuity of knowledge, the production
function might well be as he had suggested.
The second point would have been that the locus of technical progress
affected the number of alternatives known to people. He had really
left out the question of scale, and if he were to rewrite the paper, he
would not bring it in. Technical progress would currently be taking
place where both output and the capital-labour ratio were high. The
limiting factor on a shift in techniques was not only lack of alternative
techniques at so low a scale, but the impossibility of any shift at so low
a scale. The third point would have been that the locus of possible
techniques was discontinuous. It was not of particular importance why
the techniques were discontinuous ; capital goods were not made in all
possible sizes, and we should accept that.
He agreed with Mr. Mathur that many possible techniques were
available in underdeveloped countries, but not all of these were efficient
ones. He had not tried to argue that all production functions were as
425
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
he had assumed ; all he had suggested was that they existed in a suffi-
ciently large number of industries to mean that it was easier to shift to
new techniques in an advanced country. There were many reasons for
this, but he would especially mention the fact that agriculture was very
important in countries with low capital-intensity. Professor Leibenstein
said that while simple inventions might not be expensive in capital (though
he wondered if this was equally true in terms of output and wages) what
was important was really the whole cost of the shift including the cost
of increasing the amount of knowledge and showing people new tech-
niques - and this added to the cost of the change.
Professor Bentzel had wondered whether one really could assume
that a rise in wages was exogenous, so he would like to explain what he
had in mind. He had been thinking of two alternative processes of
change, in one of which the change would work and in the other of which
it would not. In the existing underdeveloped areas, it was impossible
to find closely-similar techniques. If entrepreneurs thought it reason-
able to expect a major change in the whole situation, including a rise in
wages, their inability to change to new, but fairly similar techniques,
meant that these expectations were not fulfilled. In a developed country
such expectations could be fulfilled, with the rise in output per head suffi-
cient to allow higher wages to be paid. He agreed that there were many
other reasons why it might not be possible to raise output per head, but
he had been concentrating on some particular situations where technical
progress was not relevant, and others where it was.
Professor Leibenstein emphasized how much he agreed with Professor
Robinson that the stress should be on other elements besides capital,
but stressed that it was important to realize that without investment
many of the improvements we were considering simply were not pos-
sible. He thought this very important for underdeveloped areas where
there was no steady investment or expansion which could lead to new
techniques.
TWELFTH SESSION
THE DISCUSSION OF THE PAPERS
BY MR. BOSERUP AND PROFESSOR BULH~ES
Dr. Singer introduced the two papers, saying that Professor Landes
had already expressed the hope that we might bridge the gap between
theory and the current problems of underdeveloped countries. The two
authors each possessed the kind of experience required to do just this.
Professor Youngson, in his book Possibilities of Economic Progress, had
said : 'When thinking about economic progress, the most important thing
to decide is what not to think about'. One thing that could not be avoided
was the rdle of agriculture, since- at least until this meeting- econom-
ists had agreed that higher agricultural productivity was a quite essential
pre-condition. Unanimity was not proof, but it was important. Perhaps
4z6
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
we tried to balance what we regarded as the rather unsophisticated talk
of those in underdeveloped areas about industrialization and the shortage
of capital by more sophisticated talk about human factors and agriculture.
This emphasis on the agricultural pre-condition might be connected
with the reasonable view that, where most people were farmers, develop-
ment which did not benefit them was not worth the name. Even if
obtained through confiscation, taxes, unjust land tenure systems or
worsened terms of trade, higher agricultural productivity suggested that
the farmer should benefit. But we must realize that if we added this
value judgment to the analysis, the increase required in agricultural
productivity would be very high, since poor farmers would want to eat
and retain more food as they became better off. Once again, we had an
example of what we might term quantum economics. A small increase
in agricultural productivity might not raise deliveries of agricultural out-
put ; for that a large rise would be needed.
One way of getting such increased deliveries might be to allow farmers
more of other goods (incentive goods) to buy. Here we found that in
a free economy the agricultural pre-condition had its own pre-condition
- a bigger supply of manufactured goods. The country papers had
emphasized the lateness of the rise in agricultural productivity, certainly
in Britain, Japan, and Russia. Professor Rostow could derive comfort
from having been attacked from two sides. Professor Landes had said
that the Rostow scheme was too jumpy, with its emphasis on initial
acceleration, to do justice to the gradualistic development of developed
countries. Others had said that the orderly sequence of the Rostow
model did not allow for the necessary compression of the various elements
of growth required to get underdeveloped countries over the population,
and other, humps. These two criticisms were not completely inconsistent;
they had in common the view that increasing degrees of backwardness
required progressively shorter periods before take-off. But now Mr.
Boserup concluded his paper with the opposite hypothesis that, in the
future, underdeveloped countries would creep into growth rather than
take-off. We were clearly far from agreement.
Dr. Singer said that he could not forbear pointing out that the statistical
evidence was not very favourable to the agricultural pre-condition thesis.
First, the productivity differential between agriculture and industry tended
to diminish as we moved from poorer to richer countries ; industry was
more efficient as compared with agriculture in underdeveloped countries.
Mr. Boserup convincingly explained all the special difficulties of trans-
mitting technical progress to farmers, but, if a rise in agricultural
productivity were a pre-condition, the relative degree of agricultural
inefficiency should be lower in underdeveloped areas. This did not
appear in the statistics.
Second, the rise in productivity in agriculture as compared with non-
agricultural activities was not higher since 1950 in underdeveloped than
in developed countries. This too seemed to be implied by the pre-
conditions thesis.
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
Turning to the papers themselves, Dr. Singer said that Mr. Boserup
dealt with the general problem, and stressed the mutual interdependence
of agricultural and industrial growth. On page 204 his discussion of the
'scissors crisis' in Russia and of Poland showed that here it was the
industrial 'pre-condition' that was lacking. On page 206 he recorded as
the general case the fact that because agricultural enterprise was tied to
a particular piece of land, innovation could not be introduced by the more
normal process where new and traditional firms grew side by side. Exist-
ing enterprises had, so to say, to be conquered from within. The tradi-
tional cultivator had either to be changed or removed. On page 216 Mr.
Boserup returned to the same theme with reference to South Asia, and
it would be interesting to hear from Professor Rostow how this fitted
into his own scheme.
The second part of the Boserup paper dealt with four types of land
tenure system - in descending order of developmental efficiency the
British, Eastern, French, and Mediterranean. To him, this was an ex-
tremely interesting analysis. If novel, which he could not judge, it should
be a landmark in the development of growth economics. The immediate
problem was that Mr. Boserup's ranking (with East Germany and Russia
ahead of France) did not agree with Professor Gerschenkron's or indeed
with Professor Rostow's. This required some revision of thought some-
where, and was especially important since Mr. Boserup carried over his
bad opinion of the low developmental value of the peasant-owner system
into his views on South Asia.
This question of South Asia was dealt with in the third part of the
paper. A key argument was that fear of unemployment and other social
consequences prevented the carrying-out of the brutal policies that had
been needed in Europe to bring in efficient land tenure. He was not
sure that Mr. Mathur would agree, having criticized the desire to intro-
duce mechanization into Indian agriculture. This unresolved difference
of opinion over the facts needed settling. However, assuming that Mr.
Boserup was right, presumably the kind of social consideration that he
had in mind was Western ideas about the Welfare State. If Mr. Boserup
was right, and this was related to what Professor Kuznets had said about
the accumulation of knowledge, the acquiring of such knowledge about
economic and social organization might well be harmful to the under-
developed countries in that it might impede them from adopting policies
that were necessary for take-off. Nor was Dr. Singer quite sure that
Mr. Boserup was fair to the share-cropper. Finding it hard to explain
what had happened in Japan, Mr. Boserup suggested that starvation was
the driving force. But Dr. Singer was not sure that this was a good
argument for minimizing its importance. Perhaps Mr. Boserup's low
opinion of share-cropping should be revised with reference to Japan.
Perhaps experience in the Mediterranean could be refuted by this
example.
Dr. Singer raised three specific questions. First, he thought that on
page 202 the suggestion that a low elasticity of supply in agriculture could
428
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
not be made good by imports of food without worsening the terms of
trade contradicted what was said in Professor Bulhoes' paper. Nor
could he square Mr. Boserup's description of the 'Eastern type' system
on pp. 210-11 with Professor Gerschenkron's view that emancipation made
it harder to move to the towns. Finally, on share-cropping, one could
just as easily take exactly the opposite view from Mr. Boserup and say
that this was a system giving high incentives ; so he was unhappy about
the way Mr. Boserup ranked the various systems.
Turning to Professor Bulhoes' paper, Dr. Singer thought that this made
a valuable contribution to the discussion on Professor Leibenstein's paper
by emphasizing the value of diversification for development. He argued
that the initial stage could include any form of specialized activity,
broadening out later into diversification. This was related to the idea
of leading sectors, though not identical with it. It might add to our
knowledge and improve our policies if we were to look at these ideas,
and especially the great truth that the more diverse an economy was the
greater would be the opportunities for progress. One specific question
he would like answered, and which he hoped would be, was whether Sio
Paulo could have ever developed without coffee. The answer seemed
to be 'no', but he was not entirely happy about this. Professor North
had already noted, in his discussion of the American South, that the
production of a big and efficiently-produced primary crop did not lead
to growth in that same area. The growth of Sio Paulo could be attributed
to the systematic and artificial exploitation of Brazilian primary export
producers. As the chronic inflation of the past century had gone on,
the external value of the currency had not been adjusted to allow for
inflation, but there had been a high export tax on primary produce
(including coffee) and subsidies on industry.
The post-war boom had helped the coffee producers to overcome
this handicap, but primary producers in other regions outside Sio Paulo
had moved there to escape their difficulties. How far was the growth of
Silo Paulo under these artificial conditions really proof of the fact that
once one had a successful export crop diversification would follow ?
When Professor Bulhoes described the obstacles to the development
of foreign trade as a leading sector during the take-off, one of the things
about which he said very little was the chronic handicap which primary
producers suffered because of low elasticities of supply and demand.
They also experienced competition through the development of synthetic
substitutes, and the rise in agricultural productivity in developed countries.
These kinds of difficulty in the way of foreign trade as a leading sector
should all be remembered, and Professor BulhOes made a plea for price
stabilization schemes supported by taxes on consumers in more developed
countries. One of the striking developments of our days was that the
propensity of the developed countries to give aid was now greater than
to make trade concessions. The slogan 'Trade not Aid' seemed to have
vanished, and, though we never said it outright, our policy now seemed
to be 'Aid not Trade'. Professor Bulhaes did not need to conceive of
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
the scheme being financed by a tax on the consumers of coffee, because
that was contrary to his whole philosophy.
Professor North said he could only try to pick at parts of this enormous
subject. To begin with, he thought that both papers made it clear how
important this question of agricultural development was during the period
before take-off. It was important not only in leading to the changes which
were required for the reconstruction of society, but for economic growth
itself. Indeed, he would say that agriculture has a key role, meaning that
it not only expanded industry but led, for example, to a more diversified
pattern of home manufacture. It was also clear that in many countries
diversification had not emerged. There had been spurts of income
because of various pressures, but none of these had come to anything.
As for what he had said about America's South, he thought the crucial
points were made in his paper. The complementarities and comparative
advantages discussed were relevant not only to the U.S.A. but to agri-
cultural economies in general.
He would not comment at length on Mr. Boserup's classification of
systems, but his impression was that British historians would not agree.
As for exports, what one was trying to do was to use export expansion to
assist the domestic sector, and a critical point was that this implied giving
a predominant role to agriculture.
Finally, there was the question of the terms of trade and here he
thought that the 'Prebisch argument' was wrong, because it held that
since Britain's terms of trade had improved after 1880, those of the
primary producers had become worse. In fact both had improved their
position. The prices paid by the U.K. were measured c.i.f. while those
of primary producers were measured f.o.b. This was a period of enormous
falls in freight rates which lowered the price paid by importing countries
without causing any similar fall in the price received by the primary
producers. Other arguments were equally false, for example the claim
that the movement of people to the new agricultural lands at the end of
the nineteenth century was irrational because the price of wheat was
falling ; for costs were falling too. Much of the historical evidence on
what happened to agriculture needed to be re-thought.
On the contemporary issue of the terms of trade, he felt much less
precise. It was one thing to say that the terms of trade had not behaved
in a particular way in the past, but quite another to say that they would
continue to behave differently in the future. The fears of a permanent
shift of the terms of trade in favour of the primary producers that had
been expressed at the end of the war no longer held. It also had to be
remembered that trade in primary products, with the exception of par-
ticular commodities like petroleum and bauxite, had grown less rapidly
than trade in other things. Though the period in question was only a
short one, there were good reasons for this. In the nineteenth century
there was a growing demand for primary produce and no danger of the
development of synthetic substitutes which, since they were often pro-
duced from ubiquitous raw materials, could be produced without the
430
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
same volume of imports. So while it had been agricultural development
which had set off expansion in the U.S.A., this need not happen today.
Then there was the twentieth-century conflict between social and
economic efficiency. He had been persuaded by Mr. Boserup's points,
and hoped that others would elaborate the argument. He merely wanted
to emphasize that there were immense potentialities for increased pro-
ductivity in agriculture. We must never forget that the rise was as rapid
as it was in industry. American experience showed that big increases
in productivity could be gained by relatively cheap investments in such
things as new kinds of seeds or ways of eliminating disease.
Where would this lead the 'one-crop' economies ? On the one hand,
there was the dilemma of their dependence on agriculture ; on the other,
the fact that we knew of no good alternatives in the short run. In many
cases, the ability to produce alternatives was very much inferior and yet
underdeveloped countries seemed quite willing to abandon their export
economies and to industrialize.
Professor Gudin thought that the Round Table had all too often con-
fused economic development with industrialization, regarding agriculture
as an inferior activity. This was harmful, because it led underdeveloped
countries to neglect agriculture where the productivity of capital could
easily be much higher than in other activities. This had been well under-
stood by economists like Nurkse and Kaldor, on visits to Latin America.
But industry retained its superior prestige and agriculture continued to
be neglected. As Mr. Mathur had said, such things as the improvement
of seeds, prevention of erosion or pests, and the better use of fertilizers
might yield enormous results, while requiring small investment. Again,
governments neglected agricultural research: unlike industrial research,
which the firms could carry out for themselves, agricultural research and
the dissemination of its findings required government action.
Professor Gudin said that in Argentina the alluvial soil was over one
metre deep. Before 1930 this country had reached a high standard of
living, with a well-fed and well-dressed population, based solely on
agriculture. This successful agricultural economy was ruined by Peron,
who maintained a low internal price for wheat and a high external one.
Naturally, other countries refused to go on buying Argentinian wheat,
while the farmers reduced their output of a crop for which they were
being paid only a fraction of its price. The same happened over meat,
Britain refusing to pay the prices asked. But for this error in policy Argen-
tina could have remained a prosperous ecoMmy, with a high standard
of living, based on agriculture. However, Professor Gudin did not regard
Argentina's attempts to industrialize as a mistake, despite her lack of
resources like coal and iron ore, provided that industrialization contri-
buted to the country's welfare and did not represent a burden.
Professor Gudin said that the terms of trade argument was usually
put forward against agricultural development. In that respect he would
merely support all that Professor North had said about the Prebisch
argument, which was without foundation. He would just add that one
431
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
could not compare the terms of trade between the 1870's and the 1930's
because there was hardly any article of trade that appeared in both years.
The simple question of computing freights, mentioned by Professor
North, was enough to make the analysis valueless. It was true that
agricultural countries were subject to greater variation in the prices of
their products but industrial countries, while enjoying greater price
stability, were subject to unemployment and low exports during depressed
periods.
Professor Gudin thought that the important rule for underdeveloped
countries was to avoid industrialization at whatever cost. Admittedly,
highly-protected industry could pay higher wages than agriculture, but
the unqualified claim that a transfer of labour from agriculture to industry
raised national product was not true. To start with, one could not com-
pare the product of a worker in agriculture, with virtually no tools, with
that of a worker in industry supported by, say, ten thousand dollars worth
of machinery and equipment. One could rather show that the same
capital, if invested in agriculture, would have had higher productivity.
An industry that required 100 per cent tariff protection was a burden
and not an asset to the country. It was difficult to understand the
necessity of such protection, considering that industrial techniques
could be transferred easily from one country to another, which made large
differences in cost inexplicable. Superiority in the quality of labour and
in external economies in developed as compared with underdeveloped
countries were largely compensated by lower wages in the underdeveloped
ones.
For Professor Gudin, economic development could be summed up
in two words - demand and productivity. A country had to have an
international demand for its products whether these were industrial or
agricultural. Productivity was essential. Due to lack of satisfactory
productivity, Brazil had failed to 'take-off' with sugar, cotton, or rubber.
She lacked the essential human element, capable of sustaining high pro-
ductivity. The human element and technology were the most important
factors for progress. This was why countries populated by Dutch,
Germans, Swiss, British, etc., could never be poor because where natural
resources were lacking human ability found ways of replacing them. The
U.S.A.'s great advantage was that she began with a territory empty of
population, so that its whole population was created by European migra-
tion, whereas countries like Mexico, Peru, and Bolivia had to face the
tremendous task of raising the level of civilization of a very large Indian
population.
Finally, Professor Gudin said that he agreed keenly with what Dr.
Boserup said in the second part of his paper on agrarian reform and
'disguised unemployment'. One should not, certainly, base agrarian
refonn on humanitarian rather than efficiency grounds. Poor farmers
lacked health, literacy, know-how, credit, and, last and least, land. It
was these other elements which the farm labourer needed and, without
them, no agricultural reform could succeed. As for disguised unemploy-
432
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
ment, Professor Gudin pointed out that merely transferring labour from
the land, without changing agricultural methods of production, would
simply result in a reduction of output. Marginal productivity, though
it was low, was nevertheless positive.
Professor FaUfJel said that he was not sure, from his interest in agri-
cultural reform in South-east Asia and in Mrica, whether or not he
agreed with Professor Gudin. Mr. Boserup had put forward some useful
theories on agricultural reform. The economic historians tended to
oppose what had happened in agricultural reform in the eighteenth and
nineteenth centuries to what happened today. Everyone today thought
that the question was simple ; a need to escape a vicious circle, to improve
the lot of the peasants, put the wealth of the landowners at the disposal
of the state, and so on. Mr. Boserup's paper was helpful in showing the
need to regroup peasants to make a community for development.
Professor Marczewski thought that when he asked on page 202 : 'Are
there examples of successful take-off without a preceding or concurrent
expansion of agricultural output and productivity?' Mr. Boserup's
analysis seemed to ignore France, whose experience exactly confirmed
this, especially after 1715 or 1720. French agriculture developed con-
tinuously, and the huge rise in productivity continued after population
had begun to fall. He agreed with Mr. Boserup, on page 212, that perhaps
no very important change in the French social structure took place in the
century before take-off, but thought that in the long run the abolition of
feudal rights did have one big result in that it prepared the way for changes
in the nineteenth century.
Professor Marczewski suggested that there was a negative example
which one could quote as confirmation of the crucial rdle of agriculture,
and this was the U.S.S.R. and the other People's Democracies. For
doctrinal reasons they had initially stressed industrial development and
neglected agriculture, but since 1953 this policy had been dramatically
changed and agricultural development accelerated. He would insist on
only one point, and that was on the terms of trade. Professor North had
criticized the Prebisch argument, but there was another sense in which
the terms of trade were very important. It was instructive to look at
the internal terms of trade between agriculture and industry and see how
big an advantage there was in producing industrial goods at home rather
than importing them against agricultural exports.
Mr. Mathur congratulated Mr. Bosrup on the way he had dealt with
some of the Asian agricultural problems. Agrarian structure was, how-
ever, a political question too, and in democratic countries where there
were a large number of provinces each with autonomy on questions
affecting land, reform might take a fairly long time to achieve. But
much agricultural advance could be secured in the meantime by a govern-
mental effort to promote all-round community development, the intensive
use of land and the use of idle resources and manpower. It was true
that there was shortage of labour in some areas in the harvest season, but
at other times the labour surplus was high. In Bengal, as many as 180
433
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
days a year were available for extra work, and in few rural areas in India
there were less than 100 spare days. The harvest season could be length-
ened by staggered sowing, which could be done if minor irrigation works
were undertaken extensively to avoid dependence on the rains. Too little
of this had been done by the government of India, and on this neglect
of improvements which required little capital he would like to refer
Dr. Singer to D. K. Rangnekar's study for the Royal Institute of Inter-
national Affairs, London (1958), page 36, and the Ford Report on India's
Food Crisis (1959), page 237.
Professor Dupriez thought that an important question that had been
ignored was the difficulty of transforming institutions to change from a
subsistence to a monetary economy. The more backward an economy
was the greater was the importance of subsistence agriculture. There
had even been much in Europe 300 years ago, though the more advanced
social structure and bigger ruling class had had some effect. To turn
a subsistence economy into a monetary one involved something rather
like the barter terms of trade. If the agriculturist had to start buying
food it would cost more than when he supplied it to himself. To be forced
out of this he had to be given a bigger reward, and made to feel he was
gaining even though some things cost more.
As for the possibilities of development, the fact that it was hard to
achieve implied that it was not easy to introduce roundabout methods
of production and to acquire capital and fertilizers without a monetary
economy. It had been hard to introduce fertilizers in Mrica, for example,
because one could not have fertilisers without a monetary system.
Professor Hoffmann wondered whether one should not split agricul-
tural labour productivity into that in the animal and that in the vegetable
sector. As productivity in animal farming was higher, he wondered
whether average labour productivity would not rise during take-off
because of a shift from vegetable to animal products.
Professor Boudftlille stressed the importance of urbanization for agri-
cultural productivity. Especially in countries like Brazil, and in the Sio
Francisco valley, one could not have modern agricultural development
without a nearby town. A modern Fazenda needed a town where it
could buy all the things labour needed. Professor Bulhaes had spoken
of the importance of agriculture to take-off, did he think one should add
the contribution of mineral production, especially iron ore? Itabira's
development would not lead to higher profits but to larger hard-currency
exports. Foreign trade would thus allow more investment and a bigger
employment multiplier.
Professor Rostow suggested that the Japanese case deserved a more
special status in the array of patterns than Mr. Boserup had allowed for
it in his paper. He also thought that, whatever the difficulties suffered
by the Japanese peasantry, the Japanese had now created a pool of know-
ledge to improve the lot of labour-intensive agriculturists everywhere.
Professor Rostow thought that the efficiency of the large unit in agri-
culture had been overestimated, and that of the peasant underestimated.
434
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
On national p,roblems, he thought that it was premature to suppose that
the problem of agriculture in China had been overcome. Again, while
he agreed that on the whole the difficulties in India supported what
Mr. Boserup and Professor Leibenstein had said about the real costs of
transforming production functions, the Indian task might be easier in
the light of knowledge gained in Japan and Formosa.
Mr. Berrill thought that the main feeling about agriculture was that
it was the hardest field for any economic historian to generalize about.
If one asked whether a boom in agricultural exports could lead to take-off,
the answer was that there were many cases where it did, and many where
it did not. One had to capitalize on the agricultural boom by diversifying
the economy, and this meant industrialization. Although Denmark was
so much an agricultural country, more than 50 per cent of her output
was now industrial.
Mr. Boserup had produced a pattern for agricultural systems, and
this made it easy for others to produce equally-attractive alternatives.
He thought one could reasonably say that the large-scale producer in
agriculture was always in trouble, and that the glamorous role of the
large-scale producer had been over-emphasized in the U.K. Peasant
production seemed to continue alongside the large producers. The main
point was that it was almost impossible to set a pattern with agriculture.
One could prove anything by reference to it.
Mr. Boserup replied to the discussion of points in his paper. He
might have exaggerated the positive role of the big agricultural unit in
pre-revolutionary Russia. What he had termed the 'eastern' type was
characteristic - apart from East Germany - of only parts of northern
Russia. Dr. Singer had also suggested that the French pattern of peasant-
ownership had not been so much of an obstacle to development. This
was evidently a matter for discussion. Our ideas about the timing and
tempo of economic growth in France would in any case have to be recon-
sidered in the light of the new figures put forward by Professor Marczewski.
Still, Mr. Boserup thought- and here Professor Marczewski seemed to
agree- that the absence in France of a sudden and wholesale agricultural
reform had a lot to do with the fact that small-scale enterprise, with
vociferous political interests, had continued throughout the nineteenth
century to be predominant in the French economy.
He would find it more difficult to agree that the evils of the share-
cropping system had been exaggerated. The trouble with this system
was not only that the share-cropper was uninterested in improvement, it
also fitted in only too well with the system of social status and of attitude
to work under which the landowner would try to avoid even doing super-
visory work.
Professor Gudin had mentioned a general tendency in underdeveloped
countries to frown on agriculture. He thought one ought to be more
precise about this. Ten or fifteen years ago it was certainly true that
the problem of growth in underdeveloped countries was seen as that of
promoting industrialization and nothing more. This was not surprising,
435
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
for the late 1940's were a period of agricultural reconstruction. Agri-
cultural output was increasing by leaps and bounds, and one could
understand why people should have thought that agricultural expansion
would follow automatically if only urban demand were raised through a
policy of industrialization. However, since then there had been a big
change, at least in Asia, where it could certainly not be said that people
were now unaware that agriculture might be the decisive bottleneck. He
thought that Professor Gudin might have misunderstood his attitude to
agrarian reform. It was certainly very important in Asia, but he did not
see how it could come about, in a sufficiently radical way, in view of the
strong political pressure for land and tenure policies designed mainly to
protect the interests of small- and medium-sized farms.
Mr. Boserup agreed with Mr. Mathur that no serious efforts to foster
co-operation had been made in India, though there had been a lot of loose
talk. As for the reserve of agricultural labour, he thought that this could
be exaggerated. The peasant family was not easy to mobilize to work
for anyone else ; there was also the fact that involuntary idleness among
agricultural labourers was far smaller than was often supposed.
Professor Rostow and Mr. Berrill had suggested that, in the dis-
cussion of the relative virtues of different agricultural patterns, he had
put too much faith in the productive importance of the size of the holding.
There was perhaps here a slight misunderstanding. His faith was not
so much in size as such. The important question was whether the agrarian
structure gave room for the exercise of a genuine entrepreneurship. This
would usually require market sales and hence a certain minimum size for
the cultivating unit.
Professor Bulhiies recalled that Dr. Singer had asked whether Silo
Paulo could have progressed without coffee. This was a hard question.
He thought that coffee was the basis of capital formation, and one needed
efficient production as the basis for new investment. This implied that
the two things needed for take-off were, first, an efficient technique for
mobilizing savings and, second, a system for using these savings reason-
ably. Mr. Boserup had said that in Mexico a great deal of industrializa-
tion had been followed by a relapse into stagnation, and growth had been
resumed only after land reform. This was correct up to a point, but
stagnation in Mexico came after the nationalization of petroleum. Later,
tourism was the main source of capital formation, especially in irrigation,
which had been the key thing in Mexico. So the main point was that
there must be a big source of saving. Without investment, the use of
natural resources was the main starting-point for take-off. He wanted
to refer to the paper by Professor Cairncross which said that if income
rose, there would be greater opportunities for investment, so that a rise
in investment would follow a rise in income. He thought this was perhaps
even more important than Professor Cairncross did, and therefore did not
think Sio Paulo could have progressed without coffee.
Professor BulMes thought that with agriculture and mining, the
essential thing was not technical progress, but an expansion in the market.
436
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
It was not just a question of the terms of trade; for then one was thinking
internationally. Even within a country agricultural prices were fixed
differently from industrial ones ; that was why there was the policy of
price parity for agricultural products in the U.S.A. There was always
the fear that such a programme would lead to over-production. This
was why he had suggested his own scheme of taxation. He did not insist
on it, but liked the idea of using the consumers' surplus arising from a
fall in price in imports. This would go to exporters, not to protect pro-
ducers but to allow investment to be financed.
THIRTEENTH SESSION
THE DISCUSSION OF THE PAPER
BY PROFESSOR CAIRNCROSS
Professor Solow said he would concentrate on only two of the ideas in
Professor Cairncross's paper. It was interesting that we came to capital
formation so late in the meeting, since not long ago it would have been
in the forefront of everyone's mind. Now, the tendency was to play it
down, and, while this had been a move in the right direction, it should
not be allowed to go too far. Professor Robinson had mentioned the
study, footnoted by Professor Cairncross, by Reddaway and Smith of
'Progress in British Manufacturing 1948 to 1954 '. This showed that even
over a six-year period, increases in physical capital and labour could only
account for a fraction of growth. There was a very large 'residual',
presumably caused by better management, higher-quality labour, tech-
nical progress, and possibly internal or external economies of scale in
firm or industry.
This result had been quite generally noticed. His own data for the
U.S.A., confirmed by different methods by Kendrick and Fabricant at
the N.B.E.R., suggested that over the forty years, 1909 to 1949, perhaps
as much as 80 per cent of the recorded rise in non-farm product per man
hour was due to 'the residual '. Professor Aukrust found similar results
for Norway in the paper cited by Professor Cairncross, and had also
inaugurated a large-scale cross-country study at ECE, whose results
were awaited with interest. Similarly, the Kuznets' figures for Japan
provided a strong parallel.
In the form the work took, it seemed to say that, with giflen inputs
of K and L (and why did people always worry about the units that K
was measured in, and never the units for L) output would anyhow rise
at 1! per cent per annum, or some other figure, even with no net invest-
ment at all and a constant labour force. The apparent moral was that
capital formation was less important for development than might be
supposed and that the important thing was somehow to build in the
'free ride'. There was much truth in this. Although he detested the
use of the words static and dynamic to mean bad and good, perhaps
437
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
classical and neo-classical economists had paid too little attention to this
for Ricardo, and later Mill, were writing of the stationary state as a pre-
dictable future phenomenon at the moment when the law of diminishing
returns was suffering a violent blow in the U.K. But we should not go
too far, and that for at least two reasons.
One was that though we did not know what governed the famous
residual, he suspected that much of it must result from better-trained
and healthier labour and better, more-aggressive management. These
things could not be procured without cost, and represented a kind of
capital formation. Their fruits were yielded over a long period, and
they required the investment of resources at the beginning, before the
output came. A second reason was that the model was too simple in an
important respect. It implied that all technical progress was like time
and motion study, giving higher output from the same labour and capital.
This was not plausible.
Professor Solow pointed out that mo!!t productive innovation seemed
to require new kinds of physical equipment. Capital was surely not
jelly in the short run, and new technology required at least gross invest-
ment. Though it did not necessarily require net investment, it remained
true that the higher the rate of capital accumulation was, the more rapidly
could technical change be absorbed, and the more rapid the rate of
effective technical change would be. He had worked out a model embody-
ing this kind of hypothesis, which required giving explicit attention to
the age of the capital stock. Though hard to use empirically, some
econometric work he had based on it suggested that, over a period of
two decades, sheer capital accumulation could account for a much bigger
fraction of the increase in output - not in the sense that if one had capital
accumulation without technical change one would gain so very much,
but that given the rate of improvement of technique, the social yield on
additional investment was higher.
Finally, Professor Solow said that he and a few of his high-minded
colleagues had been fighting a doomed but gallant rearguard action against
excessive reliance on the capital-output ratio as a tool of economic analysis,
and especially of planning. When people used the marginal capital-
output ratio, they seemed really to be groping for something more like
the marginal product of capital, of the rate of return on it. This was
hard to discover, but was what one had either to know or to estimate to
get rational decisions. Professor Cairncross himself almost slipped when
he wrote on page 244 about how capital formation might not lead to an
acceleration in output, if it took the form of housing or inventories which
did not add perceptibly to productivity, though they might yield a high
enough return to be worth while. Later, on page 248, he mentioned that
the absence of housing might slow growth.
Professor Samuelson had told him that in Japan there was a theory
that only plant and equipment, and mainly equipment, really mattered,
and that since their equipment-output ratio was very low, they gave a
tremendous increase in output. There were industries for which not
438
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
only the capital-output ratio, but also the input-output ratio was very
low I Long-lived assets might seem to have a high capital-output ratio,
but this appearance might be partly due to using an inappropriate measure
of NNP. An asset whose flow of utilities was getting closer should
appreciate in value for that very reason, and this should be counted in
NNP as a sort of negative depreciation.
Professor Bentzel said that the use of capital-output ratios, at least
marginal ones, might be all right as tools of analysis for some purposes
especially in connexion with problems of the allocation of resources.
Yet, in his paper, Professor Caimcross used these ratios in a way which
was likely to lead to a result giving too little importance to capital forma-
tion in the growth process. Professor Caimcross came to regard the
capital-output ratio as given by the state of technical knowledge. Pro-
fessor Bentzel could not accept this constancy ; the marginal capital-
output ratio could probably change very considerably from time to time
even within the same branch of industry. If we assumed that the pro-
duction function took the form q = Q(n, k), the capital-output ratio was~
and the marginal ratio
dK __!_ l
- =dQ= dn •
dQ dK Q,.t dK+Qtt
Here, Q,. 1 was the marginal productivity of labour and Q~: 1 the marginal
productivity of capital. This simple formula illustrated the elementary
fact that marginal capital-output ratio was a function not only of the
marginal productivity of capital but also of the marginal productivity of
labour and of the change in the quantity of labour. The implication of
this was that if investment led to an increase in employment, the marginal
capital-output ratio would be low ; if labour did not increase, the marginal
capital-output ratio would be high. There were several reasons for
believing that the marginal capital-output ratio would be comparatively
high in a fully employed society ; there could not be a rise in employment,
and the only possible change was in the marginal product of capital.
The contrary was true in an underdeveloped economy.
In historical terms, Professor Bentzel was less sure. At least in
Sweden, industrialization had been followed by a big rise in employment
and this was the reason why the marginal capital-output ratio was very
low. However, this did not mean that capital formation during take-off
was unimportant for growth. He thought that Professor Caimcross
might have missed this, and he did not see that the Caimcross example
of a high capital-output ratio today had much to do with what had hap-
pened in earlier times. It was especially true that the marginal capital-
output ratio had very little to do with profitability.
Professor Bentzel thought that perhaps one reason why the statisticians
put so little stress on the importance of capital formation for growth
usually was that the available investment data were not the proper ones
439
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
for growth analysis. The figures for investment were defined in the
national accounting sense, but perhaps this was not very useful. There
were many expenditures which obviously influenced production and
could be called investment, but which were not included in the tradi-
tional concept of investment. For example, in the Swedish metal-
manufacturing industry, expenditures on tools, research, development
work, etc., were of the same order of magnitude as investment expendi-
tures measured in the national accounting sense. In the light of this
fact it was not very surprising that it was impossible to find a good
correlation between production and investment.
Professor Marczewski thought that on page 2#, of Professor Cairncross'
paper one might attribute part of the 'residual' to movements of factors
of production from less to more productive employments. All depended
on how the calculation was made. If one took an overall residual, then
part of it would be due to shifts of labour and capital between industries.
On the other hand, this would be caught by an industry-by-industry
analysis. On page 245 of the paper, Professor Marczewski wondered what
Professor Cairncross really meant when he wrote that 'if income is grow-
ing fast, investment opportunities are likely to be expanding even faster'.
If he was thinking of the accelerator, it did not work this way. Or was
he thinking of some new long-term mechanism ?
On the capital-output ratio, Professor Marczewski thought that French
experience was illuminating. If one included land, the ratio of capital
to net domestic product was 8·3 in 1788, 7·1 in 1852, 8·3 in 1880, 8·8
in 1892, 7·8 in 1900, and 7·2 in 1911. If one excluded land, the figures
for the same years were 3·0, 3·0, 4·5, 5·5, 5·9, and 5·4. The coefficiency
without land had risen regularly, and it was only the fall in the price of
land that had kept the inclusive ratio from rising•steadily as well.
Professor Cootner thought that one possible explanation of the residual
was economies of scale. In thermal electricity in the U.S.A a large
producing unit operating at a total output of say ten times that of a small
unit, would be able to do so at only half the cost per kilowatt, at any
moment of time. A bigger plant did not require the same investment
of capital per unit of electricity produced. One also got a benefit from
more intensive use of the asset. So far as the transmission of technical
change was concerned, the main evidence was for coal-using power
stations. One had large bursts in investment as part of what appeared
to be a long cycle, which allowed excess capacity to build up. During
these large bursts, the secular rate of decline in the amount of coal used
to generate a unit of electricity rose from 1l per cent per annum to about
3 per cent. This suggested that when a big dose of investment was
undertaken, there were substantial possibilities for raising productivity.
Miss Deane wanted to support the point that capital was not a strategic
factor in take-off. Professor Tsuru had suggested that one essential for
take-off was that any surplus should always go into productive invest-
ment. He went on to argue that Malaya, for example, should oblige
foreign capitalists to reinvest their profits within Malaya. But a country
+f.O
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
which needed foreign capital had to make conditions attractive for it,
and accept its terms. It was not a question of having access to capital,
but of knowing how to apply it productively. In Malaya two-thirds of
such earnings were reinvested domestically, and only one per cent re-
patriated. The remainder went to inflate Malaya's sterling balances;
in effect, Malaya was actively investing abroad at that stage.
The reasons why foreigners withdrew their earnings varied. Perhaps
local or central governments were not aware of opportunities for domestic
investment. There might also be specific obstacles such as shortages of
skilled workers or raw materials. The important factor was not merely
having access to capital but providing strong inducements to investors.
Dr. Singer found it difficult to understand Professor Cairncross'
strictures in the capital-output ratio as a tool of planning. It was obvi-
ously not a guide to the allocation of investment between sectors, and
there might be systematic bias, though he was not sure in what direction.
But he did not see that the use of the overall capital-output ratio did any
harm. Provided the resources of capital, land, and knowledge were put
to good use, one could compute any ratio one wanted. Then if one
minimized the capital-output ratio, one also maximized output. He
thought that all would accept the proposition that computing the cost
of development was very useful for rational fiscal policy, and did not see
why this should be linked with the tendency to regard investment as a
'penny in the slot' process.
Professor Robinson recalled that while in Delhi he had seen papers
exchanged between Rosenstein-Rodan and Reddaway. The former's
attempts to work both ways with the overall capital-output ratio seemed
to produce improbable results : considerable discrepancies arose in rela-
tion to the amount of capital required for given expansions and the
amount of income generated by them. In the end, one had to come back
to sectoral capital-output ratios. Overall ratios dominated by the high
amounts of capital going to public utilities meant nothing. In a country
like India, one ranged from the very low ratios in clothing to ratios of 5,
7, or 10 in public utilities. To take an average figure could give one
only a misleading impression of what was needed for any specific group
of investments.
Dr. Singer was not happy about what Professor Caimcross said on
self-financing on page 247. As Professor Cairncross himself admitted,
industry was likely to have its capital needs met more fully than was
housing and other social capital when capital was scarce. At the same
time, the lack of these complementary types of capital was likely to hold
back industrial progress. How did one achieve the correct balance
between the two ?
Professor FfJU'IJel thought that a great merit of the Cairncross paper
was that it brought together many useful thoughts. On page 249 he
wanted to emphasize the basis for the fact that European countries had
little difficulty in generating finance for industrialization. The standard
of living had been much higher than in modern underdeveloped areas,
441
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
and wages were nevertheless quite low. This was a very different situa-
tion from that where today one often had over-population in countries
with developed systems of social security.
Professor Fauvel doubted how true it was, as suggested on page 251,
that an increase in the rate of growth of capital depended on a new
understanding of the value of capital accumulation, and a willingness to
give it priority over other objects of expenditure. This seemed opti-
mistic. In reality, savings rose because there was some pressure that
forced a rise, and this was true both in the nineteenth century and now.
Entrepreneurs were forced to acquire capital through savings by the
pressure of competition. Finally, on page 250, Professor Fauvel thought
the justification for the Rostow thesis that even before take-off 5 per cent
of the national income would be saved was that a minimum of savings
was always required because some capital was needed even in agricul-
tural regions. This was the minimum of savings needed for the renewal
of capital on a bare survival basis.
Professor Dupriez thought that uncertainty about the nature of the
'residual' should vanish if one went back to fundamental economic
theory. It then became clear that it resulted from the fact that the
industrial revolution was a qualitative process. Otherwise it would have
run into the bottleneck of full employment and labour shortage. The
unexplained part of progress was fundamental ; we had been able to
improve living conditions during the industrial revolution because it had
changed production functions. If the industrial revolution had been
purely quantitative and we could have explained the process additively,
by increases in factors alone, then marginal productivity would not have
risen. But we knew that marginal productivity was not constant.
This stressed the importance of the fact that factors of production
were not the same throughout the process. We knew that because of
technical progress output would expand even with zero net investment,
and it followed that progress would be greater if net investment was
positive.
Professor Delivanis said that Professor Solow had mentioned a dangerous
Japanese misconception. He would like to say that the same attitude
was expressed in some ECE reports, and taken up by some Greek econo-
mists who complained about the proportion of investment in buildings
in Greece.
On pages 247-8 of his paper, Professor Cairncross had mentioned
that with an imperfect market it was relatively easy for industry to get
the capital it needed. But in some countries it was difficult for industry
to obtain capital because managements tended to keep dividends down.
Shares were only bought by those who owned the firm, not for dividends
they might offer but to give capital appreciation. This sometimes made
it almost impossible to find local people to run an industry. If one
studied incomes per head, conditions before 1914 were not so favourable
as many people appeared to think. Professor Marczewski's figures, for
example, showed that income per head in France in 1913 had been only
442
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
$186. This was admittedly greater than income per head in South East
Europe today, but very low when compared with what we should regard
as satisfactory now. Finally, Professor Delivanis said that on page 248
of his paper Professor Caimcross suggested that the rise in the savings
ratio must be regarded as part of the growth process. He thought that
under favourable conditions one could have growth without a rise in the
savings ratio if income rose sufficiently to give greater gross investment.
Professor Aukrust thought that there could not now be basic dis-
agreement with what Professor Cairncross said about the 'residual',
though this was a different view from that expressed some time ago. The
success of the Harrod-Domar equation had driven home the idea of a
fixed ratio between investment and growth, but there was now too much
evidence for us to believe this. Table 1 set some of this out. The top
four lines gave the findings in the 1942 Tinbergen article when (with
shaky material) he tried to break down the growth rate into the contri-
bution of labour, capital and the 'residual'. The lower part of the table
gave the results so far unpublished, of a similar ECE study, using the
Tinbergen methods. Assuming a Cobb-Douglas production function the
residual had been computed as in the Table.
TABLE 1
Growth Contribution of
rate of 'Residual'
NNP Labour Capital
Tinbergen's figures ~1942•
Germany (1870--1 14) 3·4 1·2 0·7 1·5
U.K. 1·6 0·8 0·5 0·3
France 1·9 0·6 0·2 H
U.S.A. 4·1 2·3 0·7 H
ECE conclusions
Norway (1900--38) 2·7 0·6 0·7 1·4
(1948-59) 3·1 0·3 1·6 1·2
U.K. (1949-57) 2·7 0·6 0·9 1·2
W. Germany (1939-48) -4·6 0·1 -0·5 -4·2
(1950--55) 9·5 1·5 1·9 6·1
(1955-59) 4·9 1·2 2·1 1·7
Israel (1952-58) 9·5 2·2 3·4 3·9
• J. Tinbergen, 'Zur Theorie der langfristigen Wirtschaftsentwicklung', W~ltw.
Archiv, 1942, I.
Norway gave the kind of results that one would expect, while the
German figures were interesting in that they showed the effects of the
war and of subsequent reconstruction. Everyone was impressed by the
German performance, and the figures showed that in 1950--55 with
economic reorganization there was a high residual of 6·9 per cent, falling
to the more normal 1·7 per cent after this unusual period was over. The
443
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
exception was Israel, which had been able to increase the capital stock
at the high rate of 11 per cent, but had nevertheless had a residual of
3·9 per cent. If one used more refined production functions, such as
that outlined by Solow in the introduction to the discussion, more of the
residual would have been attributed to capital, but the remaining residual
would still be a large one.
Professor Aukrust thought there were two important implications.
One was that it was not necessary to have a spurt in investment to get a
spurt in income. It had been pointed out that take-off in Japan had not
been accompanied by an associated rise in savings. But he wondered if
there could be any case of a take-off where there was not an associated
increase in the skill of the population. Perhaps the Rostow hypothesis
needed to be modified to show that rising saving was not an essential
part of the take-off process.
The notion of a constant capital-output ratio, sustained for technical
reasons, was the second assumption that could not be continued. If one
thought that a Cobb-Douglas function was a good approximation to the
truth, then investment only played a limited role in raising output. The
capital-output ratio itself was partly determined by the investment rate.
With net investment zero, there was still some growth. A higher marginal
capital-output ratio should have been expected for the 1950's, because
investment had been high.
Professor Cairncross seemed to have questioned the Norwegian sav-
ings data for the late nineteenth century. Nevertheless, he ought to have
quoted the net investment figures, which had varied over the period
between 6 and 8 per cent. Norway had relied on capital imports.
Professor Robinson had said that we needed to look at the economy
sector by sector, but he wondered if this would really be any better.
How did one measure the sectoral capital-output ratios ? One would
have to compare capital directly employed in an industry with value
added by that industry. But what mattered was not this but the addition
to NNP from investment. There were pitfalls here. If a particular act
of investment raised output in one sector, but withdrew labour from
elsewhere and hence lowered output there, that should be taken into
account when computing the value added resulting from that investment.
Similarly, one could have 'spreading effects', with the construction of
roads adding to value added elsewhere. Internal and external economies
would make any sectoral analysis very complex.
In other words, the capital-output ratio was something like the ve-
locity of circulation, in that it tended to be constant, and yet when one
most needed it to remain constant for policy to succeed, it began to alter.
The capital-output ratio, like the velocity of circulation, should be rele-
gated to the museum of antiquated economic tools where it belonged.
Mr. Berrill thought that the rate of growth in Professor Solow's
'free ride' was important. We knew that increased productivity was
bound up with industrial growth. And in a direct sense house con-
struction was unproductive so that there was at least something in the
444
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
Japanese mythology. If one were growing fast, and concentrating on
particular industries, one would get a better free ride. Nevertheless, it
was hard to make sure that all investment was made in the right directions.
In the underdeveloped areas, despite differences in income per head,
all were trying to get the same increase in investment. They could
develop only if investment could be diverted from trade and agriculture
into industry. But the desire to invest in trade and agriculture was not
silly. With imperfect competition in both trade and industry, returns
were good, and investors knew they would be investing their capital
safely in trade, but were not so sure about industry. Mr. Berrill sug-
gested that by creating uncertainty in agriculture, land reform in itself
tended to divert investment towards industry. But the fact that in the
past small investments had yielded good returns should not be projected
into the future. Rising population, the desire for a high rate of growth
and the demand for housing and welfare services all made conditions
very different in modern take-off.
Mr. Mathur said he interpreted Professor Cairncross differently from
Miss Deane. On page 246 Professor Cairncross implied quite clearly that
where good management was not present progress might not occur
because finance remained a bottleneck for the individual entrepreneur.
One example of this was small-scale and cottage industries as well as
agriculture in underdeveloped and over-populated countries where man-
agement was not very good and where investment was low since only a
small proportion of borrowings could be obtained at a reasonable interest
rate. The inducement to invest could be created if cheaper credit could
be obtained. In this case, the Keynesian recommendation of low interest
rates was very relevant for encouraging investment in the right lines.
Even if investments were made, their product was not always used owing
to the high price of the product. Thus canal water was not always used,
as there were high water rates in India (though not in Burma and Thailand)
owing to an untenable doctrine that a public utility must pay for itself.
Here also a policy of subsidization was needed and finance had to be
made liberally available by the government for it.
Professor Hoffmann wanted to support the statement that the biggest
need in take-off was for building capital. In the German case, a little
over 50 per cent of investment had been in building. A crucial problem
in initiating take-off was the need to finance capital formation in building
and in transport. This was one reason why many underdeveloped
countries needed foreign aid. As for the capital-output ratio, Professor
Hoffmann said that if one disaggregated manufacturing industry into
branches, one found that there was great stability in the inter-industry
relations of capital-output ratios. This was of some help in policy making,
so far as there was a typical manufacturing industry structure. Most of
our statistics were for mature countries.
Mr. Boserup mentioned two reasons why the capital-output ratios
found in five-year plans and similar documents did not show what Dr.
Singer wanted. It was the true incremental ratios that one was interested
#5
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
in, but the figures that could be distilled from plan documents were
already averages of fairly large ranges of investment and should there-
fore not be expected to be equal in the different sectors. Another defect
was that they took account only of output in the same sector as that in
which the capital was employed. The capital-output ratio ought to
measure the total increase in output resulting from investments. This
seemed to be the reason why Professor Bentzel wanted to use the capital-
output ratio as a guide to planning rather than the profitability of capital ;
Dr. Aukrust, on the other hand, wanted to l!crap the capital-output ratio
altogether, not because he disagreed about what would be ideally desir-
able, but because he just could not believe that a ratio such as that desired
by Professor Bentzel could possibly be calculated.
Professor BoudetJille asked Miss Deane two questions. First, if foreign
capitalists were encouraged to reinvest their earnings in domestic indus-
tries, these industries might become dominated by foreigners. Should
self-financing be controlled through a maximum size of the plant as
Bata was in France in 1936 ? Second, he agreed that the rate of interest
was a big brake on investment in general in underdeveloped areas. All
firms had trouble in getting long-term capital. But was it not obvious
that the main difficulty for local firms was in the high rate on short-term
funds. These rates could reach 3 per cent per month and be more
expensive than long-term loans.
Did Miss Deane see any danger in fostering foreign credit banking
in rapidly developing countries as one of the best ways of helping them ?
Professor Rostow thought that if one tried to do what Professor Solow
wanted and attempted to get the greatest possible ' residuals ', it might
be necessary to proceed by going beyond aggregates and looking at invest-
ment in more detail. In the U.K. and on the Continent there had been
a big ferment in the economy between the wars, with the growth of elec-
tronics, sheet steel, aircraft, cars, and so on. But the rate of growth of
income during the 1930's had not been high enough to allow all the new
technical possibilities to be fully exploited. Since 19+5 this had been
possible. If one wanted to analyse other surges in other economies,
where the absorption of technical progress had been rapid, then it would
once again be a matter of isolating those blocs of industries where the
surges had taken place. He was not saying that such a movement could
not be widespread ; but he did say that its satisfactory study might require
disaggregation.
On the question raised by Professor Cairncross (page 251) as to whether
Adam Smith was concerned with take-off, the emphasis in Smith's
writings was on education, on the problem of diverting income to modern
activities, on the provision of social capital, on foreign trade and special-
ization with an expanding market. On the other hand, there was little
in Adam Smith's writings about the possibility of introducing radically
new production functions. He would therefore say that Smith was a
man of the late pre-conditions rather than of the take-off itself.
Professor Caimcross, replying to the discussion, said that the old
++6
Hague - Summary &cord of the Debate
masters, Smith, Ricardo, and Mill, had been quoted, but none of them
had thought in terms of a take-off into sustained growth. In 1848, for
example, Mill was doubting whether invention would be able to sustain
growth indefinitely. Professor Cairncross thought that the atmosphere
had been much more favourable to his views during the discussion than
it had been during the discussion of a paper expressing similar views at
the Santa Margherita Round Table in 1953. Perhaps while capital had
been over-rated in 1953, the pendulum had now swung too far the other
way. Capital was obviously very important if one included in it not
only physical investment but also the cost of education, research, etc.
Professor Gerschenkron had spoken of commercial morality, and we did
not know the cost of introducing that.
Professor Caimcross thought that on the capital-output ratio he was
as ambivalent as most. Regarded simply as a quotient, it was about as
useful as the proportion of red-heads in a theory of population. Other
variables behaved in much the same way in relation to output : for
example, as Professor Cipolla had mentioned, energy requirements per
unit of output tended to remain constant. But we did not build on this
a theory attributing economic progress to the use of energy.
If one tried to use the concept operationally there was a danger of
assuming that the line of causation ran from capital to output, whereas
in his view it was more correct to turn things round the other way and
to think first of the expansion of output and then of the level of invest-
ment necessary to sustain it. This way of looking at things was the more
likely to be correct the higher the proportion of investment went into
social capital and was not reflected in any immediate rise in output. As
for the usefulness of the concept as an instrument of planning, it was
obviously wrong to make the capital-output ratio do duty for the older
concept of the marginal productivity of capital. The latter was a micro-
economic concept, while the capital-output ratio transferred the analysis
to the level of the economy as a whole, and one was therefore concerned
with very different effects from those arising in the individual firm. The
difficulty of taking full account of the consequences of investment on
other firms and industries had been raised by Professor Bentzel, who
was concerned with net changes in investment, employment, and output
across the whole economy. Precisely because of this difficulty, while it
was possible to compare the rate of growth of capital and of income
ex post over the whole economy, it was doubtful whether the ratio between
the two was an operational concept capable of inclusion in an economic
model.
The discussion of the residual had shown that this did not seem to
be functionally related to investment. But was it not essential to dis-
aggregate investment to make sense of what happened ? Economists
did not pay sufficient attention to differences in social yields from dif-
ferent forms of investment. The private return to industrial investment,
for example, was reduced in various ways below the social return : by
the need to pay higher wages when new machinery was introduced, by
447
The Economics of Ta~-off into Sustained GrO'UJth
taxes, by price-concessions to extend the market, etc. Thus the 'take-
off' for the community was not unaffected by the precise direction of
investment. If the ' free ride' aspect of the residual did depend on the
rate of investment, then it was likely that a sustained high rate ofinvest-
ment would give better results than a series of short spurts, since it
would be likely to lead to external economies of various kinds.
The conflict between the work of the United Nations and that of
Professors Solow and Aukrust, suggested that the r6le of capital was
more complete than had been assumed. Figures for the rate of invest-
ment relatively to the rate of growth of income were interpreted to sug-
gest that there was a functional relationship between the two in the
various countries. The correct statement might be that where output
was growing rapidly, investment would be high, and technical advances
would be more rapidly absorbed.
Professor Cairncross agreed with Professor Bentzel that it was im-
possible to leave out of account simultaneous changes in labour availability
and employment. The same modes of thought would not necessarily
apply to an underdeveloped and a fully-developed country, and perhaps
this discussion had been too much concerned with developed areas. He
also agreed with Mr. Mathur and Professor Aukrust that part of the
residual came from shifts of factors of production between industries.
What he had meant on page 245 was that when incomes rose rapidly the
accelerator came into action, especially if capacity had not been fully
stretched.
Professor Cairncross said that he had calculated from the Marczewski
figures that in France, between 1788 and 1912, only 1-2 per cent of GOP
had been invested in agriculture. Yet agricultural output had more than
doubled. Perhaps the figures understated the investment in agriculture,
and there had, of course, been a parallel investment in social capital.
This raised Dr. Mathur's point that it was hard for the Indian peasant
to acquire capital on reasonable terms, so that there were bottlenecks.
This was no doubt true, but the amount of investment in agriculture
required was not likely to be very large.
Professor Fauvel had suggested that people always needed to be
forced to save. This was true in a sense, but if one thought back to the
sixteenth and earlier centuries there had been much saving devoted to
the construction of cathedrals and other public buildings. Was this
forced ? In the nineteenth century much investment had been financed
by landowners from their rents. What was lacking previously was a
capital market and, no doubt, scope for large and profitable investments.
Landlords responded to fashion and opportunity rather than to any
compulsion.
H~- Summary Record of the Debate
FOURTEENTH SESSION
THE DISCUSSION OF THE PAPER
BY PROFESSOR COOTNER
Professor Robinson said that the paper began and ended with the
question whether it was likely that, because of uncertainty and lack of
foresight, the lumpiness of its units of investment and its immobility,
there would be too little investment in social overhead capital provided
by public utilities. If this were to be so, countries might well experience
delay in economic development and lose potential economies of scale.
Turning first to the assumptions attributed by economic theorists to
entrepreneurs in the industries in question, Professor Robinson agreed
that it would be very unrealistic to assume that entrepreneurs assumed
the continuance of existing levels of demand. Professor Cootner rightly
began by repeating this sort of assumption, but at the end of his paper
went on to construct a different kind of model in which he assumc;d
perfect foresight, awareness of risks, the existence of a risk premium, and
a consequent tendency for investment in social overhead capital to be
below the socially-desirable level.
Professor Robinson hoped that participants would forgive a rush of
bees to his bonnet, but he would like to persuade the Cootners and
Solows to burn everything written on this subject and take a fortnight
off in an ivory tower to reconsider the whole theoretical approach de
novo. He would especially like to point out that risks and uncertainties
included the risk of becoming rich as well as the risk of becoming poor.
Uncertainty allowed one to kid oneself and one's associates that the
chances of becoming wealthy were very favourable. To take an analogous
case, in a world of perfect certainty it was doubtful whether so many
authors would spend their time and energy in writing new texts of
economics as they did in our uncertain world.
Coming back to investment in social overhead capital, Professor
Robinson wondered whether a man like George Hudson, the Railway
king, could really be best described as a risk averter. Had not uncer-
tainty in his case resulted in more and not fewer miles of railway ? And
was not the same true of Cecil Rhodes ? Professor Robinson said that
he was unwilling to chance his hand in the presence of so many experts
on America, but were there not such optimists there ? He felt that the
same was true for other kinds of social overhead capital as well, and
could not accept the view that uncertainty meant that there was too little
provision of social overhead capital.
Before leaving differences between private and social net product,
Professor Robinson said he wanted to discuss an aspect which Professor
Cootner had not covered. He would like to remind participants that
while Professor Cootner stressed the possibility that the entrepreneur
would underestimate the gains available to him, a different case had been
identified by Pigou and others. Here part of the gains inevitably accrued
449
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
to others, the best example being where railway building gave gains to
landowners and local entrepreneurs in any industry. This problem did
not arise where the railway developer himself owned the land.
Professor Robinson turned to the dynamics of social overhead invest-
ment, and to the part played by it in creating and leading development.
He hoped the Round Table would forgive him if he began from a rathel
concrete concept of development and went on to ask how far history
and experience justified it. If one took the Italian Vanoni plan, it had
three essential features. First, it tried to create a picture of reasonably
possible levels of production, not only in total, but in the various sectors.
In Professor Cootner's terms, it aimed at improving foresight and creating
confidence in growth. Second, it aimed at creating in Southern Italy
an infra-structure of water supply, roads, electricity supply, improved
railways, and so on, capable of meeting the needs of regional development.
Third, and this was what he wanted to stress, it was hoped to use this
investment in infra-structure in Southern Italy to start a multiplier pro-
cess which would trigger-off industrial development in the South and
cause a regional take-off. He wondered whether this was a possible
operational concept and whether experience suggested that it was effective.
A major difficulty had been leakages of demand, especially to the North
of Italy. Further, it had been difficult to set off sustained growth. In
the light of the difficulty in sustaining growth in Southern Italy he hoped
that the historians would be prepared to say more about some of the
railway-assisted take-offs in the past. If he might change the metaphor,
he looked on the problem as rather like that of putting a multi-stage
rocket into orbit. All the stages had to ignite, and not just the first. In
America they did ignite during the phase of railway building ; in India
they did not. Why ? In particular, he wondered whether underdeveloped
countries generally could rely on investment in government-financed
infra-structure to provide the first stage towards take-off into sustained
growth.
Professor North said that he wanted to buttress Professor Cootner's
ideas on long cycles. The conclusions reached by Professor Cootner
were very much those of his own study of America. Fundamentally,
he thought that the long swings depended on agriculture. The price
of cotton had reached a peak in 1836-9, and had subsequently fallen
until1845. If one looked at output, one saw that there was a lag of about
five years between the taking up of new land and an increase in output.
The same was true of wheat and maize. One had a supply curve for these
products which was very elastic over a big range, since a small rise in
prices brought new land into use ; but the curve was very inelastic with
respect to a price decline.
As for social overhead capital, cotton had not needed this. With
wheat and maize, there had been no incentive to build railways when
prices had been low, but an extremely strong one when prices were
rising and supply was inelastic. This started the process all over again.
One thing about long swings was that they were evident only after 1815.
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Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
There were many problems of acceleration, growth, and take-off because
if one looked at long swings one could see all kinds of movements, and
numerous examples of acceleration. It was very hard to discern decisive
periods when there had been an acceleration.
Professor Rostow suggested that the power of the railways in inducing
take-off lay in their multiple effects. They restructured markets by
reducing transport costs. They opened up the possibility of agricultural
specialization, and so raised farm output. They opened up agricultural
markets to manufactures. By making it possible to transport bulky goods
more cheaply, they had a direct effect on the development of industries
like coal, iron, and engineering which brought in new production functions.
By their lateral effects, they brought new men and new savings into
highly-productive activities. One got all these multiple effects from the
activities of one sector.
Professor Robinson and Mr. Berrill both insisted that what Professor
Rostow was so far discussing was the results of the existence of railways,
whereas there would also be the pure multiplier effects of the construction
of the railways. The local demand for labour would spread through into
the raw material and consumer goods industries.
Professor Rostow said that in an underdeveloped area one would not
get a powerful stimulus to the coal and iron industries until a certain
scale had been reached. Before that, the necessary supplies would be
imported. But as one laid down more lines, one got a whole succession
of effects, some of which were the multiplier effects of the initial construc-
tion on income, while others were of a more long-term nature. To look
on the provision of social capital simply as an input might .not be a suffi-
cient notion. This had a bearing on the comparison of the Vanoni plan
with a railway-assisted take-off. A necessary element in the Vanoni plan
was that out of the successful construction of social capital one not only
got a fall in costs but a direct stimulus to the rest of the economy, and
effects on agriculture through a rise in effective demand. The problem
of the Vanoni plan was that there might be leakages and it might not
generate a local input industry and that there might therefore be an
inadequate rise in aggregate demand.
This was similar to the problem of achieving take-off in the U.S.
South. This had been encouraged partly by investment in social capital,
as in the TVA ; but an important component had been the rise in the
price of cotton and a consequent increase in income and effective demand.
If one made a case-by-case study of those firms which had been estab-
lished in the South, one found that few of them went to exploit lower
labour costs. Most of them moved to exploit increased effective demand.
So if the South of Italy had no export sector to lead growth, the question
was not simply how to give the region better roads, schools, power, and
other industrial inputs. It was also how to raise effective demand within
the region.
Professor Robinson stressed that it was the aim of the Vanoni plan to
raise effective demand. Professor Rostow suggested that whether one
.of.SI
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
got take-off depended also on whether there was sufficient entrepreneur-
ship in terms of both quality and ability to establish and spread new
industries. Another question was whether the total actions envisaged
in the plan would produce a rise in real incomes sufficient to allow the
development of new industries and the spread of modern technology.
The fact that the main inputs did not originate in Southern Italy was
one reason for the scepticism he felt about the Vanoni plan. Successful
take-off required entrepreneurs and rising real incomes.
Professor Boudii'Ville suggested that on the question of risk and uncer-
tainty in making investments in social capital, it was very hard to evaluate
risks in underdeveloped areas in the way that one did in Europe. In
underdeveloped areas, the evaluation of uncertainty was mainly sub-
jective ; all probabilistic calculations were difficult. Generalizing, Pro-
fessor Boudeville suggested that we were concerned with the questions
of certainty and uncertainty on the one hand and of whether these were
subjective or objective on the other. With objective certainty there was
no risk. With subjective certainty there were doubts of the kind one
had with long-term investment. Objective uncertainty represented a
calculated risk- a stochastic risk. In Professor Cootner's study we
were only concerned with objective uncertainty. In the real world, and
especially in a country that was taking-off, we are concerned with the
expectations of entrepreneurs about public investment, and not with the
views of an insurance company.
Professor Boudeville suggested that Professor Cootner's paper dealt
with only part of the problem of investment in underdeveloped areas.
Most investments there were concerned with substantial pecuniary ex-
ternal economies. Others were better explained in terms of Professor
Rostow's lateral effects. If one considered the case of Brasilia, there was
access to Sao Paulo and to Belo-Horizonte. What risks and pecuniary
external economies were attached to this large and apparently question-
able investment ? First, there were the sorts of external economy that
one could not measure ; political ones, north and south integration. This
was subjective uncertainty. Second, Brasilia represented a way of de-
veloping or opening up new land and there were objective certainties or
risks of inflation from the expenditure on social capital in the wilderness.
One could calculate the multiplier, polarization vectors, etc. But entre-
preneurs had to bet on new structures. In countries that were taking off
these bets were mostly subjective and were grounded on government
stability. The decision to build Brasilia was not justified merely by
considering pecuniary economies, but by the necessity of transforming
entrepreneurs' subjective uncertainty into objective uncertainty as far as
the immediate development of the Near West was concerned. In this
social overhead capital was of primary importance.
Mr. Mathur wished to make some remarks about the question Pro-
fessor Robinson had raised about the abortive spurt in India when the
railways were being built. One could see traces of sustained growth
from some crude estimates of national income per capita deflated by the
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Hague - Summary Record of tlrs Debate
9-year moving average index number of the price of food-grains (which
form a large proportion of consumption). This figure was almost doubled
(from 23 to 43) in the sixty years between 1867 and 1927. The thirty-year
period after 1897 showed the biggest rise in this economic indicator in
absolute and proportional terms. The consumption of food-grains per
head had fallen after 1920, but there was an increase in industrial pro-
duction and in other crops to make up for it. Employment in organized
industry had been a little less than a million in 1914, while by 1939 it was
1·8 m. By 1945, it had risen to 2·7 m., so that in the six years of the
Second World War it had increased by the same absolute amount as it
had done in a period four times as long that preceded it.
The building of railroads did have a delayed effect in opening up
the country, but the direct effect on employment and wages was short-
lived. The backward linkages, like the supplying of rolling-stock, had
their effects in Britain, as did the multiplier effect or forward linkages.
He did not consider that insufficient demand had been the reason for
slow industrial expansion, as quite a lot of British textiles were being
absorbed in India. A dependent country should not be studied in isola-
tion ; its development or lack of it, in response to investment, was in-
evitably bound up with the effect on the economy of the dominant
country.
During the second half of the nineteenth century and eai'Iy twentieth
century, laisse:tll faire principles did not apply in India with canals, roads,
and railways; and the civil servants strove to develop the country. Road
construction was decentralized in 1917 and subsequently declined. There
was also a tailing-off in railway and canal construction after the First
World War. It seemed there had been a change in the political philo-
sophy of British governments in their attitude to economic development
of India.
As for the policy implications of social overhead capital, Mr. Mathur
said that a major question in planning was how big a project should be
in relation to present demand. On the whole, one could reasonably claim
that in social overheads like dams, bridges, public utilities, etc., it was
better to build units big enough, or capable of being expanded enough,
to cater for expected demand over a long period.
Professor Cai'nu:ross recalled that on page 280 of his paper Professor
Cootner said that he would 'expect to find alternate cycles in the relative
prices of industrial and primary products which corresponded to the
cycles in social overhead capital and other investment'. If one asked
what were the big users of capital, the answer was that they were new
countries in course of development, and the stages of production farthest
away from the consumer. For example, the textile, chemical, and steel
industries required more capital as one moved away from final con-
sumption towards the raw material stage.
If one looked at nineteenth-century swings in prices and in relative
prices, one found that the biggest rises and falls were closely correlated
with a relative shortage or abundance of foodstuffs and materials and with
453
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
the consequent pressure to add to supplies by developing new countries
or by expanding capacity to provide raw materials. Either course re-
quired a relatively large amount of capital so that investment rose and
inflation tended to follow. Rising prices for grain in the late 1890's, for
example, led to the development of Canada, heavy investment there, and
a world inflation. Similarly, after 1945 there was again a need to develop
raw materials. But this time the shortage was made good within the
industrial countries and, with no ' new ' lands to develop, extra investment
was concentrated more in the industrial countries and less in the under-
development areas. The underdeveloped areas were already at a dis-
advantage for this reason, and the further development of synthetic
substitutes for the products of underdeveloped countries would worsen
the position.
Mr. Berrill was attracted by Professor Cootner's paper, having lived
so long with Professor Rostow's overshooting of primary and secondary
production. He was sure that this was how expansion took place in the
nineteenth century. Although in the short run overbuilding was ex-
pensive, sooner or later expansion of the economy should mean that the
end result was satisfactory. However, this need not necessarily be the
case, and Canada, for example, had been wrong over uranium. And
even if one was right in the long run, there might have been a much
cheaper alternative. For instance, the cost of constructing railways had
been very high in the U.K. and the U.S.A.
On the Vanoni plan, Mr. Berrill said that if one looked back at other
countries it was clear that whether the plan had been misguided in
thinking that it could act as a pump primer depended on the precise
situation. There were many countries where one could say that take-off
would not have occurred without the railways. A push which did not
last long enough would not lead to take-off; nor was one where there was
an export leak likely to be successful. One difficulty with railway engines
and rolling stock was that the important content was often high. The
basis for expansion which one could develop from primary produc-
tion was limited, though a war might help. In most cases the boom in
primary produce has helped countries like Canada and Australia which
had pre-war starts. So the important issues when considering something
like the Vanoni plan were: the length of the push; the ability to trap
demand at home ; the kind of market one created; and some factor inter-
rupting the inflow of supplies from abroad.
Professor Cootner said that Professor Robinson had touched on a
point near to his heart - risk-bearing. It was true that one could point
to many instances where the future had been overestimated, but this
did not prove that the people in question were risk averters. The failure
of such men made others become risk averters themselves ; if people
wanted certainty there would be no progress at all. Professor Cootner
said that he had been studying future markets. Although one found
many cases where speculators lost money, in the long period one found
that most of them made a fairly steady return of the kind Keynes had
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Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
predicted. There were so many who did not want to lose, and it was
this which deterred them from participating.
As Professor Boudeville had said, none of this proved that there was
no risk aversion, especially in underdeveloped areas. Professor Cootner
said that his own work had now gone beyond the futures market, and
what he had found was often compatible with the fact that in financial
matters many people acted as though they were risk averters. While he
had less evidence on railroads, he was impressed by how many grandiose
projects were stymied in financial markets. While he could not list all
the cases, he was struck by the extent to which people underestimated
demand, and thereby choked-off investment. Professor Robinson had
shown how Rhodes' other enterprises supported his railways, and how
these enterprises themselves benefited from railroads that were supposed
to be failures. There were similar examples in the U.S.A. One often
found farmers accepting low dividends from railroads because they got
other benefits ; and many railway entrepreneurs made cities bid for the
privilege of being on these routes.
Many of the things that we attributed to cautious peasants and
farmers were really examples of risk aversion. An Indian farmer who
one year lost half of his crop was likely to starve to death. He would
therefore give up a great deal in order to avoid risk. He would not shift
to a potentially more profitable, but also more risky, line if he knew he
could keep going on an older line. On the other hand, if there were
many risk lovers, then the Darwinian process was on our side, and Pro-
fessor Robinson had supplied several examples. Professor Cootner noted
that it was primarily in those periods of U.S. history when the risky
railroads were being built that government support was extended. When
lines were short and promising then such aid was not given. It was
important not to interpret his paper as saying that subsidies would never
help ; but it seemed unlikely that one would get the same decision from
a civil servant earning a low salary as from a man with the chance of a
large gain.
Turning to Southern Italy, Professor Cootner said that a study of
the area in the nineteenth century showed no lack of social overhead
capital, and thus made it difficult to blame such a lack for its backward-
ness. On the question of whether investment in social overhead capital
would lead to growth, the reasons were those which Professor North had
mentioned for the South of the U.S.A. If there were no reasons for
expecting railway building to set off other industries or to reduce the
dependence of a region on agriculture, there was no reason why railroad
building should lead to growth.
In the U.S.A. the building of railways itself had very substantial
effects on machine building. Many producers of textile machinery were
brought into the industry. Iron, and later steel, were stimulated; 75 per
cent of all steel produced in the 1870's and 1880's went to the railways.
In the 1840's the big boom in iron and steel in the U.S. depended on the
relaying of track put down in the 1830's plus the fact that all of the U.K.'s
455
T'M Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
capacity was involved in building its own railways. The industry in the
U.S.A. was on the Atlantic seaboard, and therefore relatively near to
England. Then, in the 1850's, the demand for iron declined, and the
U.K. cut prices to sell in the U.S.A. This was partly why the U.S.A.
had made its own iron in the 1840's, and why production fell in the 1850's.
When building of railroads passed beyond the Appalachians, it no longer
paid to import from England, and new ore and coalmines were opened up.
In connexion with the points Professor North had raised, Professor
Cootner said he would merely conunent that in Labrador and Venezuela
iron ore investment in the last fifteen years had shown a long slow swing,
with the situation now difficult because all this ore was coming on to the
market at once.
Professor Cootner thought that what he had said about 'pecuniary
external economies' covered what Professor Boudeville had said about
Brazil, even though it might be necessary to change most or all of the
coefficients in the matrix. If one built a railway in a country like Brazil
this would alter all production functions. The question to answer about
Brasilia was not whether its construction would generate investment but
whether the same amount of capital put into a coastal railway would not
be more valuable. It was not the rise in investment, but the extra net
output from alternative investments which was the important thing.
Replying to Mr. Mathur, Professor Cootner said that Chenery had
shown that whenever there were economies of scale it was always better
to build a little ahead of demand and expect demand to grow later. But
this did not mean that one should always do this. If the period before
the asset in question could be fully used was a very long one it might
well be better to use the capital elsewhere, depending on the inter~st
rate. He also hoped that Mr. Berrill had not understood him to say
that mistakes of overbuilding were always good for the economy.
Professor Caimcross had raised the question of changes in primary
product prices. It was true that one effect of technical change was to
reduce the rents to be earned by primary producers who could make
goods which industrial lands did not have ; but the phenomenon he had
described might persist nevertheless. The period since the 1930's had
been one where, despite the slump, investment in primary produce had
been sustained. He did not think that we had wiped out the Malthusian
reliance on food and raw materials.
As for take-off, many of the surges of growth in underdeveloped
areas were not wholly or even partly determined by economic causes.
There were many sociological and psychological factors of the kind that
Professor Boudeville had mentioned. It was necessary to persuade people
that there was much leas risk than they thought ; to change their atti-
tudes to risk ; or to offer fantastically high rates of return. One very
important thing was to find people who would respond to financial incen-
tives in the same way as entrepreneurs.
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
FIFTEENTH SESSION
THE DISCUSSION OF THE PAPER
BY MR. BERRILL
Professor Delivanis said that it was a pleasure to introduce such an
excellent paper, and the one which was closest to his own field. Mr.
Berrill showed from the data in his paper that the take-off of the U.K.,
France, Germany, Japan, and Finland, to which he would add the
U.S.S.R., was not financed by foreign capital. The author explained
in his paper why this was so in the U.K. This situation was well known,
but what Mr. Berrill showed afterwards that even in Canada and in
Australia the contribution of foreign capital to take-off had been limited,
was usually ignored. Mr. Berrill distinguished between qualitative and
quantitative factors. So far as the latter were concerned, he stressed the
importance of new fields of contacts with foreign markets, of new ideas
and new knowledge and of technology. The possibility that foreign
capital might cause damage when an 'enclave' was created, whose main
contacts were with foreign markets, was mentioned and rightly dismissed.
The contribution of Professor Maurice Bye from Paris on the 'grande
unite internationale ', as reproduced in International Economic Papers,
Vol. VIII, might be mentioned in this connexion.
The difficulties resulting from bad statistics, particularly the con-
fusion of capital transfers with other invisible items, either by mistake
or because of the desire of those making the transfer to do so secretly,
were clearly explained. Mr. Berrill attributed the small importance of
default before 1914 to the effects of inflation. He himself believed that
it was also due to the important fraction of capital, chiefly from the U.K.,
invested in public utilities, to the small profits of the railways and to
the invoicing of machinery and spare parts at higher prices when ordered
in the mother country. Mr. Berrill attributed the reduced importance
of bonds after 1945 to inflation and default. Professor Delivanis himself
believed that this applied to private individuals but not to institutional
lenders like the IBRD, the insurance companies, or to the Swiss. In
his witty explanation of the frantic search for foreign capital by many
underdeveloped countries, Mr. Berrill mentioned the desire for indus-
trialization and for increased international liquidity. Professor Delivanis
would like to add the growing monetary experience of the public after
a long inflation.
He also added that he did not think Mr. Berrill had put enough
emphasis on the desire to acquire foreign exchange rather than foreign
capital, since the latter could be replaced by forced savings at home
while the former could not - as German experience in 1933-8 showed
clearly. Increased foreign exchange reserves made imports easier, since
increased possibilities for replacing them by home-made commodities
led to new demands, particularly when living conditions improved and
the elasticity of demand fell. They also made the application of an
457
The &onomics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
austerity policy less necessary, allowed the appearance of 'soft' currencies
and reduced the cost of certain investments.
Professor Fauvel said that he had not realized before that at the end
of the nineteenth century the timing of so many investments had so
little to do with take-off. Two of the few cases where foreign capital
had fostered take-off were Puerto Rico since 1940 and Israel since 1949.
He did not think that the Puerto Rican case had been sufficiently studied.
Yet Puerto Rico had taken more per head of U.S. federal funds and
private lending than anywhere else, and this had created a diversified
manufacturing industry supplying the American market. This led to
the last sentence of Mr. Berrill's paper. Did this lending help to put a
stop to population increase ? He did not see any fall in population pressure.
Nor did he think that French aid to Algeria had reduced the rate of growth
of population there. And what beneficial results there were in Puerto
Rico had occurred only in a laboratory experiment, since it was much
smaller than a country like Algeria. He also doubted whether the effects
of a fall in fertility rates could be noticeable in twenty years. Professor
Fauvel pointed out that if one could reduce the period of child-bearing
this would increase the number of women available for the public utilities
and for agriculture. This was a very effective way of dealing with the
situation, and much better than the luxurious way of hoping that the
inflow of foreign capital would reduce the fertility rate.
Professor North said he had just completed a study of the effects of
international capital movements on economic growth. He had been par-
ticularly interested in the links between international capital movements
and other international economic relationships. The only certain con-
clusion was that there was no simple answer. On the terms of trade,
Professor North thought that he might have had more information than
Mr. Berrill. He had found the U.S. case stimulating, because there the
terms of trade led capital movements in an interesting way. It was clear
that a relative rise in export prices, initiated by cotton and wheat, was
an important factor stimulating the initial inflow of capital to the U.S.A.
On the other hand, the effects of the terms of trade in the 1850's were
not so clear, and he thought that a very important factor then had been
the movements of gold out of the U.S.A. which had changed the whole
climate and had played a very big role in altering the character of inter-
national relationships. On the other hand, if one looked at other countries,
one found no clear relationship between the terms of trade and capital
movements, even where, as in the Australian case, one would have expected
to find some.
Professor North pointed out that there was no normal sequence of
events in capital importation. Countries did not always begin as net
borrowers and end as net lenders. To suppose that they did was to put
too much emphasis on the U.S. example as being typical. Canada,
though borrowing capital, was also finding new resources, and had there-
fore been a net borrower for 150 years. He did not agree with the article
by Knapp in the Economic Journal which had suggested that capital
458
Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
movements had little effect on growth ; but at the same time he was
not at all certain how they helped growth. The inflow of capital did
accelerate growth and lead to a boom, but the only thing that capital
itself was doing was to redirect resources into the construction of social
overhead capital during the boom. Only with unemployed resources
could the inflow of capital lead to more rapid growth. With full employ-
ment, the effect of capital imports was more circuitous than many people
supposed. If one looked at the combined activities of people and capital
one could produce a logical explanation which would apply generally
with a few variations.
Dr. Singer had made it clear that in the long run direct investment
had not had the results that were wanted of it, so that perhaps portfolio
investment was better. Professor North said that portfolio investment
was much less likely to lead to the development of a dual economy. He
thought that if one wanted to look at the effect of the inflow of capital
on economic growth, the main thing was not its effect on the export
sector but on the domestic sector. This effect might be either direct or
roundabout. He did not suggest there were no problems, for example,
of repayment, but that one must always link the export and domestic
sectors in trying to solve such problems.
Dr. Singer said that on the Puerto Rican case, which fully justified
the end of Mr. Berrill's paper, he would like to point out that this was
one of the few countries where the natural increase of the population
was being removed by emigration. On other points, Dr. Singer said
that near the middle of page 286 of his paper, Mr. Berrill had speculated
that perhaps 20 per cent of total savings during take-off had usually come
from abroad. The current figure for underdeveloped areas would
perhaps be 30 per cent, if one left China out of the calculation. In other
words, if one ignored the investment of profits, the contribution of
foreign capital to take-off was now significantly higher than it used to
be. It was therefore very important to correct the common idea that
foreign capital was less important than it used to be in stimulating economic
development.
On the facts, Dr, Singer was not sure about the contention on page 297
that the biggest difference compared with a century ago was the small
volume of bond issues. He thought that the important change was rather
that from private to public investment, but perhaps Mr. Berrill was only
writing of the movement of private capital to underdeveloped areas.
Dr. Singer said that if one listed underdeveloped areas today in terms
of the contribution of foreign capital to capital formation, and in terms
of the total rate of investment as a percentage of national income, it
would not be easy to show that there was any correlation between the
two. He suggested that foreign lending was not so much raising total
investment as allowing a given rate of growth to accompany higher rates
of consumption. This had a bearing on the earlier discussion of whether
growth was harmful to consumption.
On 'enclave' investment, Dr. Singer thought we should be careful
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The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
not to hold preconceived ideas on whether this had effects outside the
enclave, and led to valuable results. Everything depended on the par-
ticular circumstances. When Sears Roebuck had first gone to Latin
America, he had agreed with those who had said that the result would
be a harmful, parasitic investment bringing a demonstration effect in
favour of spending on American consumer goods. Yet, as things had
turned out, foreign exchange difficulties had meant that Sears were
unable to import from the U.S.A. at the end of the war, and this had
stimulated domestic demand in countries like Mexico. It was for the
governments of receiving countries to turn enclave investment into
something more useful.
Professor Gudin said that Dr. Singer had mentioned an outflow of
3 to 4 billion dollars a year to the under-developed areas. But the inflow
of interest and amortization to the U.S.A. in 1954 was greater than the
outflow, and it had been suggested that merely reinvesting this interest
and amortization would be a sufficient contribution. Dr. Singer replied
that his figure was for a gross outflow, excluding reinvested profits.
Professor Robinson thought it would be interesting to look at Mr.
Berrill's paper and ask what function foreign capital performed. Logically,
if not quantitatively, there were three functions. First, it added to savings
and to the investible resources of the country concerned. It was right
for Mr. Berrill to try to put this in perspective by suggesting that it made
a 20 or 25 per cent addition to these resources. The Arthur Lewis rule
that savings would rise from 5 to 10 per cent of national income during
take-off, meant that investment during take-off had to double, and a
25 per cent addition to investible resources would mean that half of the
extra investment was financed from outside. If we also remembered
that take-off was linked to the leading sectors and that the development
of public utilities was very important, then an increase of some 25 per
cent in investment, concentrated in the public utilities, was a significant
contribution to the total dynamics of take-off.
Second, foreign capital helped in easing the foreign exchange
position, and he wished to ask Mr. Berrill to go back to the role of foreign
trade in take-off. To summarize the position there, some participants
had wanted to identify the difficulties which arose if foreign trade did not
increase pari passu with income. One example was the need to make
import-saving developments if a country was deprived of the resort to
foreign sources of supply of components. This meant that the phasing
of development became more critical and more difficult. A major contri-
bution of foreign investment was therefore in adding to the general
foreign reserves of the banking system and allowing expansion to occur
without any need to apply the brakes because of balance of payments
difficulties.
Third, one had the sheer limitations of institutions. During the
Victorian era, much foreign investment had taken the form of public
utilities. Capital markets in the underdeveloped areas had been inade·
quate, and it had been easier to raise money in London, Paris, BrusseJs,
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Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
or (later) New York. Much of the reason for this reliance on foreign
capital had been that capital markets did exist in these places. He there-
fore wondered whether Mr. Berrill could give a thumbnail sketch of his
interpretation of the functions of foreign capital.
Professor Robinson also wondered whether anyone had tried to
calculate in constant prices the scale of total foreign lending. He sug-
gested that even though we now had the World Bank, there had been
a greater ability to lend abroad in the nineteenth century than there was
now. World lending at the turn of the century had probably been
£250 million per annum which might be £2,000 million today - the
equivalent of $5 or 6 billion. Perhaps, in relation to existing world
capital, lending abroad had been bigger in the nineteenth century. It
was unthinkable that today the U.S.A. should be lending half its savings
to other countries; yet that was what the U.K. had been doing a cen-
tury ago.
So far as enclaves were concerned, Professor Robinson thought that
there were two points to be considered. At an early stage, they might
merely be small centres with many leaks abroad and which therefore
failed to disseminate growth. But later, they might well become the
leading regions in the countries concerned. Professor Robinson said he
was worried by Professor Rostow's habit of insisting on the importance
of leading sectors rather than leading regions. Bombay and Calcutta
must once have been enclaves in the very worst sense. More recently,
through the limited amounts of foreign funds available and the desire
to replace imports by home-produced goods, they had become the most
active centres for progress. So he did not think it fair to condemn them
a priori and outright.
Professor Marczewski agreed on the importance of international capital
for underdeveloped areas. But it not only allowed them to benefit
internally, by developing leading sectors ; he wanted to stress the fact
that it also allowed the beneficiaries to reconcile growth with the pressures
which that growth necessarily threw on the balance of payments. Take-
off expressed the fact that a country was catching up with the rest of the
world, and this required increased imports, more intensive internal
demand and more difficult exports. The solution of such foreign trade
problems represented the strategic r6le of foreign capital.
Professor Marczewski thought that Mr. Berrill might have said more
about political factors. These were just as important if one went back
into the past as they were today. Most British investments in the nine-
teenth century had been made within the Empire. French preferences
for investment in Russia were also largely political Between 1919 and
1939 in Europe, one had a situation where Eastern Europe needed capital
for take-off, but Germany needed it for modernization. Although the
marginal efficiency of capital was higher in Eastern Europe, the U.S.A.,
the U.K., and France had all invested in Germany instead, because the
political situation was unstable in Eastern Europe.
Since 1945 international capital movements had largely consisted of
461
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
public investment, to make up for the lack of private investment and
so to continue with its earlier task. This was a very important thing,
but did not lead to a distribution of capital according to the relative
marginal efficiencies of capital. We had a distribution of investment
which did not maximize world production, and did not channel funds
to those countries with the greatest needs. The World Bank had done
its best to distribute capital fairly, but we were still far from allowing
capital to go where it was most needed.
Professor Dupriez said that Mr. Berrill and others had stressed an
historical fact of extreme theoretical importance. This was the difference
between investments in the 'liberal ' age and those made now. It was
a difference between capital invested in private enterprise and investment
in social capital. He had recently called the former investments 'capital'
and the latter 'para-capital'. The former investments had to be made
on the basis of the marginal efficiency of capital ; otherwise, the investors
would lose money. The latter group could not be judged by marginal
efficiency, but by usefulness, as was the case with consumption goods.
ln>king at 'capital', this had been important for take-off in most
areas in the nineteenth century, but not the most important factor. It
had rather supported and followed the entrepreneur. During take-off,
Belgium had imported British entrepreneurs to bring in new processes,
and they had brought capital with them. The British entrepreneur had
acted as a catalyst, but there had never been a large amount of British
capital in the big public companies.
Professor Dupriez wondered whether the reason why the net inflow
of capital into modern underdeveloped areas did not last for long was
connected with the fact that the first capital was brought in by incoming
entrepreneurs. If one looked at Katanga, new capital had come in from
outside for a time, but then institutions had developed within Katanga
itself. Self-financing had developed, even though it was self-financing by
Belgian companies. The Union Miniere had brought in no new capital
since 1925. New companies had brought in Belgian funds, but much
capital had come from self-finance.
A final point that should be considered, to put the present position
of underdeveloped countries in perspective, was that there was a shift
to huge investments in social capital by governments. This was happen-
ing both nationally and internationally. Guarantees against the expro-
priation of foreign capital were doubtful, and this had encouraged the
development of the whole set of international institutions which were
important in seeing that obligations were honoured.
Professor Boudeville stressed the importance of large firms in helping
underdeveloped countries to take-off. Big firms could transform an
economy, and he was thinking here especially of the nationalization or
regionalization of production. They could develop domestic supplies of
materials and could establish a centre of trained labour. Where there
were large international firms, these often obtained a monopoly in the
country where they were established, and being able to trade inter-
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Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
nationally was one way in which they could reach an optimum scale of
production. There were some dangers, however, and it was preferable
for these firms to proceed by reinvestment rather than self-finance. There
was also the danger that they might join with other firms to set up large
and tight monopolies. The Bata company had arranged quota systems
in some Wlderdeveloped areas, and this had not given good results.
Professor Boudeville said that many investments were of a political
nature. With no kind of political control, some countries would remain
outside the range of international investment, because they had no
monetary system. In other countries one might get no automatic equating
of marginal utilities. Perhaps it was the role of international investment
to take funds to places where there would be no automatic channelling
of capital. A similar question was whether one could equalize rates of
return on capital in such a way as to maximize world revenue. All that
had been said on take-off suggested that this was impossible because of
polarization. One would then be concerned with marginal social product
rather than marginal utility, and this was something about which we
knew too little. The idea of maximizing world income by equalizing
rates of profit was a matter of pure theory and nothing more.
Professor Boudeville thought that we should stress investment in areas
where polarization was possible ; for social reasons, we had to stress the
importance of helping countries with the greatest instability. He was
not sure that this was the best way of investing. One needed a reduction
of tension within the country before international capital movements
could have a maximum effect.
Professor Marczewski did not think there was the conflict which Pro-
fessor Boudeville saw between the marginal efficiency of capital and
polarization. They were complementary and not exclusive methods of
analysis.
Mr. Mathur said that the question of the role of enclaves was wider
than had so far been recognized, because it raised the whole issue of the
impact of the West on underdeveloped countries. He thought it was
time we reviewed the long-term economic significance of the relation
between colonial countries and their territories abroad. The case where
the local population had been displaced by the conquerors was quite
different from the type of occupation where Western concepts had been
introduced into the traditional structure and encouraged to grow. For
instance, in India, the original social structure had been maintained and
in matters of religion, social attitudes, and personal laws there was hardly
any interference by the British government, except to prevent crimes
like widow burning and infanticide. In such a case, though it was true
to say that foreign rule and political suppression are never pleasant and
no substitute for democratic self-government; that the colonial govern-
ment had acted very largely in the interest of the ruling country ; that
Western scholars would themselves admit that many things which could
have been done for the ruled country were deliberately not done, and
that in general the take-off had been delayed ; nevertheless, if one took
463
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained GrO'liJth
a wider view, one saw thar pre-conditions for growth had been created
by the foreign power which might well not have been established otherwise.
India had been unified, good administration and public works policy
of the Moghuls revived ; new technology had been introduced and,
above all, education, liberal thought and desire for advancement instilled.
It was not possible to say how much of this would have taken place had
there been no colonial rule, but what the British did in the nineteenth
century should not be compared with what a modern Indian government
would do. The alternative then was a multitude of princely states
operating on medieval principles of government.
Mr. Mathur did not think that there was sufficient discussion in
Mr. Berrill's paper on the future of foreign capital in underdeveloped
areas. The issue was greatly affected by political expectations as to
whether capital would be secure. The foreign investor had to face the
likelihood that in fields of public importance assets would sooner or later
be nationalized. Businessmen were usually aware of this possibility and
looked only for the lines where the rate of profit was high enough for them
to recoup their investments quickly. This tended to limit the flow of
long-term investments. The problem was not confined to foreign invest-
ments, as nationalization did not always discriminate against foreigners ;
domestically-owned assets were not entirely secure. In such circum-
stances, the need for larger international lending through the auspices
of, and with the guarantee of, the United Nations agencies was becoming
imperative. The attitude of the International Monetary Fund was not
as enlightened for purposes of growth as it might have been. If the
Keynesian plan for an International Bank had been accepted originally,
it would have been better for the underdeveloped countries. For not
only did it contain provisions for the creation of credit but also implied
a positive duty for the advanced countries to help to correct the balance
of payments problems of underdeveloped countries. If that vision could
be re-established it would be an answer to the most difficult problem of
development planning -lack of foreign exchange.
Mr. Mathur abo referred to the view of Professor P. M. S. Blackett
that the pre-conditions of the Newtonian revolution in technology had
resulted from the importation of advances previously made in the East.
As a result of this and of the later assistance given by the underdeveloped
countries during the take-off of the now advanced countries, the more
generous ones among the latter might also feel it equitable that some
recompense be now made after many centuries of neglect.
Dr. Singer stressed that he was not an authorized spokesman of the
United Nations, but that he would like to stress one point. Even though
the terms imposed by the IBRD might look severe, there were offsetting
factors. It was true that the loan had to be repaid in the currency in
which it was made, and that it carried a S or 6 per cent interest charge,
but the Bank agreed that tying the loan to a specific project was not
sensible, and the true criterion was the whole plan into which it fitted.
The IBRD financed the marginal project on which the whole, wider plan
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Hague - Summary Record of the Debate
depended. One had to remember that the effect of IBRD loans was
perhaps also to cushion consumption. There were many in the Bank
who were worried about the harsh terms for repayment, and the 'bargain
basement' had been introduced in the form of the International Develop-
ment Association (IDA). The real benefit of any IBRD loan was shown
in the spreading of development in the receiving country. Professor
Cairncross said that Mr. Berrill's paper was mainly concerned with
the receiving country and not the lender. Capital imports might rarely
form a large proportion of indigenous investment but that was not true
of capital exports. There was a point of some importance here in relation
to the famous transition from a 5 to a 10 per cent savings ratio. Some,
including Mr. Mathur, seemed to think that savings might overshoot
needs. Was there any law which said that the savings proportion could
not exceed 10 per cent. It was very hard to know the answer, and just
as hard to know why savings should level off at all. In the U.K. there
was no evidence to suggest that the savings ratio had been very different
in the nineteenth century from now, and one question was how it had
been possible to lend so much abroad at that stage, while so much more
was needed at home now.
Professor Robinson wondered whether one might say that we would
help one country at a time to take-off, but not all of them at the same
time. How far were amounts of capital lent, and the dates on which
they were lent, synchronized ?
Professor Cairncross pointed out that no country in the nineteenth
century was satisfied merely with one injection of foreign capital ; they
all kept returning. Countries like Australia and New Zealand had been
early borrowers, but they were still coming to London for loans. On the
other hand, it was certainly true that the predominant borrowers had varied
from time to time.
Professor Cairncross said it was a mistake to treat all capital invest-
ments abroad as if they were of the same kind, and he would distinguish
five kinds of movement. First, there was capital for public utilities. In
the past most of this had gone into railways. Second, there was invest-
ment in such things as oil, tea, rubber, etc., where there was an export
commodity and an enclave in the strict sense, with no need to develop
outside it. Third, there were medium-term export credits to help an
underdeveloped area to acquire capital equipment. These were increas-
ingly replacing long-term issues. Fourth, there was direct industrial
investment in the receiving country. This usually took the form of
setting up branch factories and differed from the first and second types
of investment in that it had a significant effect on the local economy and
was directly financed. Though investment in railways, etc., was now
usually financed by the public issue of bonds, industrial investment was
usually financed by private firms. Private foreign capital mostly came
from the U.S.A.; public capital mostly came from the World Bank, or
from governments. As one would expect, direct investment only began
once the basic infrastructure was there. This meant that most of the
465
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
direct investment by the U.S.A. was in developed industrial countries.
There was a limit to this kind of investment in underdeveloped countries,
which was soon reached unless there was access to export markets. Fifth,
there was the movement of hot, short-term money. Such funds often
moved away from underdeveloped areas.
Professor Cairncross said that when talking about enclaves, one had
to remember that in Africa a high-subsistence sector was an important
part of the economy. The monetary part of the economy was itself an
enclave, often largely made up of foreigners. It followed that early
investment in sqch a country must in some sense always be enclave
investment.
Mr. Berrill began his reply to the discussion by considering the
criticism that he had played down the importance of political factors in
the nineteenth century. Of course political factors had a big influence
on international capital movements, especially in their direction. Perhaps
he had treated the problem too much in global terms. When asked what
was the difference between investment in the nineteenth and twentieth
centuries, it was not easy to answer, because there was no information
on the size of short-term trade credits, and one had to try to give the
right answer on the basis of what information there was. This made
one give undue importance to particular kinds of investment. There
were very real problems in the way of accurate comment, and he did not
think Dr. Singer had allowed, for example, for help given via commodity
agreements, or by countries like France and Italy offering special prices
for foreign goods. He therefore thought it was very difficult to give a
sensible guess of total international investment now as compared with
earlier days.
Replying to Professor Dupriez, Mr. Berrill said that he could not
identify the productive effect of foreign investment from its more general
repercussions, but he did think that in the nineteenth century one could
put one's finger on a particular piece of investment created by a particular
loan. This was much more difficult now that so much foreign lending
was between governments, to protect the balance of payments or to give
governments cash which it was unable or unwilling to obtain by taxation.
That was why he had said that foreign capital now helped to keep the
rate of growth of capital above the rate of investment. Perhaps one should
try to separate off 'soft' loans made to help governments out of political
difficulties.
Perhaps one important influence of foreign lending was to ease the
foreign exchange situation where a country was not growing by the export
of a primary product. The essence of take-off was that it sucked-in
imports, technicians, machines, etc., and perhaps a developing country
was bound at first to find that it was bringing in new imports more rapidly
than it was ending old ones. In the modern world, we were always
looking at the foreign exchange situation in a way that had not been true
in the nineteenth century. The main trouble then had been found in
raising the necessary cash ; the problem of exchange had been thrown
466
Hague- Summary Record of the Debate
back on the banking system. No one borrowed consciously to ease a
foreign exchange shortage, but the shortage showed up in inter-bank rela-
tionships between the countries concerned. It was similar to the balance
of payments problem within the area of one country, which resolved
itself into a question of whether to go on lending or not. When advising
on the scale of foreign borrowing, one often found that a country wanted
four times what London was prepared to lend to it. It then became a
question of whether the foreign government was right.
One argument put forward by governments in under-developed
countries was that of Mr. Mathur, who claimed that foreign funds were
needed for expansion and raising incomes. Second, there was the 'big
push' arguments, and third, the question, what was all this about the
problem of foreign exchange, all that was lacking was money I In a par-
ticular instance where he had been involved, this had meant that the
government could use any pound raised in tax as foreign exchange, be-
cause it had no central bank and was tied to Sterling. One had to be
careful in arguing back from industrialized countries today to the foreign
banking policies of other times.
Another argument was that the foreign exchange problem was purely
one of servicing the debt. But if one then argued with the country as
to how much it should borrow, a new series of arguments came up. The
biggest questions were then about taxation, and one had the inevitable
conflict between equity and poverty. There was again the 'big push'
argument that once take-off was achieved, there would be a sufficient
inflow of revenue to service the debt from rising incomes.
Mr. Berrill said he would end by discussing enclaves. If one were a
believer in leading sectors, then one was bound to take the view that
enclaves would be needed if take-off were to be achieved. The question
was how long they should last. Perhaps they would not need to last
long in the twentieth century, but they certainly did last in the nineteenth.
There were clearly some cases where the enclaves need not have lasted
so long. There were others where there was certainly some interference
in local affairs. But whether economic conditions would have been better
had there been no enclaves struck him as a question to avoid. But what-
ever the answer for the past, how short could the life of an enclave be
in the future ? Professor North thought that their main task was to affect
the domestic market. He did not deny that they produced for export,
but thought they could only export successfully if they had a major
effect at home. M. Boudeville thought their main benefit would be by
reinvesting in and diversifying local industry, and that one should only
allow part of the industry to become monopolized so that there could
be imitation.
Professor Robinson had suggested that all enclaves started out as
bad but that most ultimately became good. This suggested that growth
must start out as enclave growth, but that there were many ways of
ensuring that growth took place domestically and was rapid.
The Economics of Take-off into Sustained Growth
THE END