Barbara Kasten

Author(s): Barbara Kasten and Leslie Hewitt

Source: BOMB , Spring 2015, No. 131 (Spring 2015), pp. 136-144
Published by: New Art Publications

Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/24365901

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136 BOMB 131

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 Barbara Kasten
by Leslie Hewitt

opposite:
METAPHASE 5,
1986, Cibachrome,
37 x 29 3/s inches.
Images courtesy
of the artist and
Bortolami, New York,
unless otherwise
noted.

right:
SCENE III, 2012,
archival pigment
print, 54 V2 x 43 V2
inches.

137 ART - BARBARA KASTEN

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 Photo
documentation of
Barbara Kasten

working in her
studio. New
York, NY, 1983.
Photo by Kurt
Kilgus. Courtesy
of the artist and
the Institute of
Contemporary
Art, University of
Pennsylvania.

opposite:
AMALGAM
UNTITLED 79/34,
1979, analog
enlargement and
photogram on silver
gelatin, 20 x 16
inches.

I had the chance to finally meet artist Barbara Kasten, studio to me. I had a kin
after admiring her work from a distance since the though I have not physic
late '90s. We met formally through the exhibition The rather large industrial
Material Image, curated by Deb Singer in 2014. The has collected and saved fr
exhibition explored aspects of material specificity and al compositions. I had im
medium definitions, among other core themes relating system. Arranging mat
to contemporary photographic practices, and was a and size would seem neces
clear celebration of experimentation. not describe this; this desire for some organizing prin
Many questions formed in my mind after encoun- ciple might have been my own projection. I imagined
tering Kasten's intricate practice. Her photographic the materials in her studio to have idiosyncratic loca
gestures are bold, clear, and formally striking. They are tions, being propped, stacked, and hung,
windows into a world of light and its opposite, into pho- Rather unexpectedly, her account arrived at a
tosensitive color fields and their reduction transformed black box—a "stage" and photographic studio simul
into endless gray hues that fill the optical plane. Her taneously. It should not have surprised me, as the void
approach is playful, imaginative, and critically chal- is ever present in her work—be it white, gray, or any
lenging. Her practice's explicit fragmentation and her other color, including black. This black box provides
staging of optical worlds are perfect visual correla- an imaginative space in her studio, a theatrical and cin
tives to our current understanding of time and space, ematic device allowing for transformation. It is there
via our interaction with the virtual world. Kasten's en- that her material selections become actors and the
gagement with the construction of space has a strong camera collapses space, magnifying subtle ges
undercurrent paralleling its antithesis: deconstructiv- into epic dramas where light meets surface,
ism, an exciting kind of anti-architecture offering much Light. Corner. Softened. Fold. Reflection.
to learn from. Glare. Sharp. Scratch. Shadow. Quiet. Edge. Moiré.
We conducted our interview over Skype as she This simple exercise o
was preparing for the survey Barbara Kasten: Stages description of her
at the ICA in Philadelphia. As I was in New York and conversation. It w
she was in Chicago, I first asked her to describe her — Leslie Hewitt

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Leslie hewitt: I want to get to video, of what I do is almost one-to-one or prints for recent work, for my new
but not yet. We're discussing the areas even the opposite, in that sometimes the series. Transpositions, I am using a
in which you make the sculpture, or sculptures are larger and appear minia- photographic process, Fujiflex, that
the set, tangible and experiential for turized in the photographs. The weight translates the spatial quality of the film,
viewers. You've done that previously, and scale of the materials I choose are
in the 1980s, and now you're moving important because the pieces are not lh: I use words like the physical ver
again toward that relationship, with the attached; the acrylic panels lean on sus the proxy or the virtual, but when I
physicality of the structures you ere- one another by gravity only. I work in look at your work, I often think that it's
ate. You said that there's an intimacy their construction, placing elements exploring the elasticity of photography,
at times. I use the word in a way that in juxtaposition and directing the light It's even broader than we want to think,
it's not meant for, relating it to viewers' to create shadows. The light is the key right? We were probably both taught
consumption. component, which activates and defines that photography is a set of materials,
the phenomenon that will be recorded or of conditions, but your work defies
Barbara kasten: Well, that's true, on film. that—you're not following conventions,
there is that sense of privacy and there's Many photographic processes are When and where did this begin for you?
also a bodily connection, because of no longer available—Cibachrome is one
the set's scale. It's not a tabletop situ- of them; I am sorry that it is not eas- bk: My introduction to photography
ation. One of the things that works for ily available today. Digital printing has was not an academic one. I took one
photography is the ability to change become one-size-fits-all because it's class to learn the basics; after that, it
the scale—to work small and have it the most available and inexpensive. was more of a hands-on relationship,
appear larger in the photograph. Most Although I've made digital archival To push the boundary of photography
has never been my motivation; I am
interested in how it can be united with
other disciplines. I was influenced by
artists in California, where I lived in the
1960s and '70s, who were experiment
ing in many material arenas: James
Turrell with light projections, Craig
Kauffman and Helen Pashgian with plas
tics, the finish fetish surfaces of John
McCracken. I had no restrictions on how
to approach photography. I felt free to
incorporate any of these concepts into
my thinking. I wasn't breaking rules;
I was actually making up my own.
I looked more at Agnes Martin than
at any photographer; there was a kin
ship between our imagery, processes,
and obsessions. She wasn't a role
model—she wasn't that much older than
me —but she was certainly ahead of the
game and I liked her meditative connec
tion to making art.

lh: Pointing to why your work looks the

way that it looks is crucial to hear.
I mean, it is not a condition of being
able to use Photoshop, right? There the
possibility of someone outputting some
thing that they are not fully invested in
constructing is embedded in the system.

bk: Right. I too think it is important. My

work is being discovered by a group
of people who are half my age and are
looking at photography in a much more
open-minded manner. It doesn't all have
to be done through the camera. I think
the creative spirit of the day is more
toward individualism, and that fuels
younger people to see how they can put

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 ARCHITECTURAL
their own twist into this medium. We are
SITE 7, July 14,
1986, Cibachrome, looking at the essentials and not looking at
60 x 50 inches.
traditional prescriptions. Now the medium
Location: World
Financial Center, is open for all kinds of experimentation,
New York, NY. and that's how you and I are connecting,
Architect: César
right?
Pelli. Courtesy of
the artist, Bortolami,
and the Institute
lh: Yes; that's right. Do you think that
of Contemporary
Art, University of we can redefine the word photography?
Pennsylvania. That the word actually can encompass

«Bj
more than what we've allowed it to thus
opposite:
CONSTRUCT 32, far? Could we view it as an expanding
1986, Cibachrome,
medium?
40 x 30 inches.
Courtesy of the
artist, Bortolami, bk: It's much more than one medium
and the Institute
of Contemporary today, and the intention of the artist can be
Art, University of different from what was done in the earlier
m Pennsylvania.
days of fine art, black-and-white silver gel
atin prints. Media is an important source
today for photographers, and it always has
been. Even in the 1920s, a lot of interest
ing work came from graphic design: El
Lissitzky, Rodchenko, and Moholy-Nagy
revolutionized uses of photography and
typography. Other photographers, such
as Florence Henri, whom people associate
with me because of the mirrors we both
use, did commercial work in addition to
HH fine art. In the 1980s I also worked com

mercially with an art director at Pentagram

to make an annual report. In addition, I did
an ad for Absolut and a fashion magazine
METAPHASE 3,
spread.
1986, Cibachrome,
38 x 29 3A inches. The Internet and digital technologies
are providing fertile ground for art
ists today. Photography is now an even
broader category, and whether or not
these practitioners are photographers is an
open question.

lh: I was born in the '70s, so maybe that's

where I want to connect us also. We could

go further back and talk about the experi

ments happening within the Bauhaus via
Moholy-Nagy, Benita Koche-Otte, or even
Gertud Arndt, but I'm curious to bring it
closer to the present day. I think about
the Pictures Generation, who challenged
the expectations of photography by
questioning/playing with the idea of the
photograph. Do you feel any connection
to that moment in the conversation? Cindy
Sherman, for instance—she's the quintes
sential Pictures Generation artist. I bring
this up not to draw a formal connection,
but perhaps a more conceptual one.

bk: The Pictures Generation artists pushed

the photograph into places it hadn't
been thought to belong. From a differ
ent stance, I was also concerned with

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 I

Mr

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Even philosophers disagree on what it is: Is space an entity unto itself? An entity
between one object and another? Some part of a conceptual fabric of ideas? I think
it can be all of these.
left:
repositioning the photograph by con- left:
a «. « . TRANSPOSITIONS,
TRANSPOSITION 8,
structing structures in space. Although
2014, Fujiflex digital 2014 Fujiflex digital
many of the questions that I was asking print, 60 60
print, x x
4848inches,
inches.

about the photographic image are notopposite:

opposite
dissimilar from those that artists in NewTRANSPOSITION
transposition
York were asking. I was working7,in 2014, Fujiflex
a 7- 2014' Fujiflex
digital print, 60 x 48
very different context in California—also, inches.ofCourtesy of
inches. Courtesy
I am a bit older than them. Even though thethe artist, Bortolami,
artist, Bortoiami,
-, . . . . . and the and the Institute
Institute
my Construct series
of Contemporary ultimately points of
back to the conceptual question of the Art,Art,
University
University of
of
Pennsylvania.
construction Of the photograph, it is less Pennsylvania,
concerned with the state of media than
with material.

lh: I love that Agnes Martin comes to

mind too, the deep contemplation that
her work emanates—which is also a

part of your work. I look forward to the

ICA exhibition to be able to spend time
in front of your many bodies of work.
As in Agnes Martin's work, there is a
lifelong engagement with some aspect
of geometry, or with the body's limits—

bk: Right, right.

lh: Or with time. Can we go into this

more ethereal space? I'm curious how
you would describe these questions,
or desires, that call you to continue to
construct your compositions with the underlying question is whether it is pos- have to have a formula, a set idea, or
same interest in line or using the same sible to make an abstract photograph. some type of structured path,
materials. The camera requires a subject. I avoid
representational objects and select clear bk: I envy people who have a vision that
bk: Even though the same material may acrylic planes that block light and there- can be isolated as a certain concept and
appear in several bodies of work, its fore create shadow. follow it. Sol LeWitt is an artist I admire
role is different in each one. I first used Geometry is also a vehicle for me. for his consistency in various forms,
the fiberglass screen, for instance, in I hope it doesn't sound frivolous to say from painting to sculpture. He sticks
the Photogenic Painting photograms geometry is in every aspect of my life. with it.
(1974-76). The inherent properties of the I am a terrible perfectionist, from the
screen produced moiré patterns that are arrangement of objects in my home, to lh: I want to ask you a little bit more
ephemeral and beautiful—the antithesis the precision I attempt to achieve in my on geometry. One of the series that I'm
of an industrial building fabric meant to work. I'm trying to stay true to who I drawn to is Studio Constructs (2007).
cover windows, which has an obviously am. I simply do what my gut tells me to Maybe this is because of my own work,
practical purpose, not an aesthetic one. do and it happens to feel good when I since I have an interest in exploring
When I used it again in 2010, in Scenes, get to a juncture of ideas that resonate geometry. I love that it pushes back onto
it had a relationship to theatrical lighting for me. They all seem to happen to have the camera. I'm looking at a gorgeously
projections. In each situation, some similarity as I go on. composed photograph; it's balanced
I learn something about the material and is showing me these principles
that encourages me to explore it further. lh: I see a quite beautiful thread that also make the image possible, if
As far as the intellectual questions throughout the work—it might come that makes sense. It's not addressing
that propel me, there might be some from a place that doesn't necessarily chemistry, which also makes it visible,
that I ask of myself or of the material. need to be described. I appreciate that but the principles—the mirroring effect.
However, mine is more of an intui- you protect that. I wouldn't say that to the refraction of light embedded within
tive process. In the recent work, my have an inquiry in one's work means you the tool of the analog camera. There's a

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quiet back and forth between the tool/ that can't be pinned down. It's a objects and the architecture. It ques
camera, what you're constructing, and phenomenon that sometimes isn't tions the identity of each and offers a
the memory image/our imagination. even present until it is on film. new combination of both. Several years
ago, I videotaped a corner projection
bk: Right. That's very nicely put. lh: That's wonderfully described. It that morphed into a two-dimensional
Geometry is important to the way I goes back to where we began, to your surface —it challenged one's visual
create an image, but you're right, it's love of working with a physical set experience of reality,
not just formal. It has more to do with and with what happens in that space. When I read Kissing Architecture
interaction and the different aspects of in nanoseconds, when you're able to by Sylvia Lavin, I was intrigued by its
three-dimensionality. I don't think of capture time. That is an attribute of premise, which is so close to my video,
geometry as flat, but as three-dimen- photography that I'm hearing you say Do you know the book?
sional. That is what's interesting to me also has value.
about space. Even philosophers disagree I want to ask you two more lh: No, I don't. Please say more,
on what it is: Is space an entity unto questions, about video and about the
itself? An entity between one object ICA survey. So you mentioned video bk: Lavin starts with Pipilotti Rist and
and another? Some part of a conceptual as being the most recent platform that discusses how she has taken these
fabric of ideas? I think it can be all of you're utilizing. Could you say a little bit bland stretches of architectural wall and
these. I like working within one aspect about why you moved in this direction? collapsed them in on themselves. It got
of space at a time or all simultaneously. Was it organic? It probably was. me thinking about how I might manage
It's interesting when you think about to not use outside props anymore, but
what's out in the world that's really in bk: Sure. That started in the 1980s as actually use the architecture,
our heads, the reality of space and our well. Working as long as I have, you In any case, architecture has always
own limited knowledge of the world do things and then you get distracted been with me, which is understandable
around us. and go in other directions. Video has because of all my geometric ideas. This
always been an interest, and now I have piece for the ICA is a step a
lh: Your work with color is very an opportunity to expand it. With video what I've been kn
nuanced. It's not just about color. You I can show temporarily the movement in a direction t
can correct me, because I'm not as of my process, of my going back and explore. It incorporates light and form,
aware of all the processes that you use. forth in the set, merging light, form, and it incorporates translucency, it incorpo
You're projecting light onto a surface, transparency until I capture a moment rates nonrepresentational objectivity,
but that light bounces onto another that isn't always visible. It's a culmination of some of the ideas
surface and then creates another very In Shadow Equals Light (2010), that I've been working with, but pared
special translation of the same light or I made a piece that was based on a light down to a specific kind of object—th
the same hue. The process creates this modulator kind of experience, using a Donald Judd-like object that's not a
soft, nuanced, spatial atmosphere. So pyramid prop I had made in the '80s. painting and not a sculpture, but a corn
color is another material for you. I guess It was very simple but very satisfying, bination of both, which maybe again
I'm interchanging color and light; maybe because it took away from the stillness needs another definition,
we could make a distinction. There's and the idea of having a one-point per- Working with curator Alex Klein on
something about the non-physical, or spective on things, allowing the pyramid the survey has given me a chance to s
perhaps more perceptual elements in to live its own life as it circulates. You the work of many years positioned from
the work, that you're recording as well. get to see many aspects of this one vantage points that reinforce my belief
form. It is a fresh look at my own perspectives
bk: I agree with what you're saying. I'm The next one. Glass Curtain
not basing the color I use on anything involved refracting light, taki
that people would identify—like green is projecting it through the wh
grass, or yellow, the sun. You might see à la Zero Group. I knew that
blue grass and I might see green grass this was before the Zero show
for all we know. I'm not using color in Guggenheim. I really could re
any metaphorical way. I'm using it for that exhibit because I was doin
what it does when light is carrying it, things in this other piece. Now
so it's a marriage of both. work. Axis (2015), is stripped down to
That's particularly true in the new- the actual architecture, so it becomes a
est series I'm doing, Transpositions, component interacting with the video,
because there's no representation or It's not just a surface —it's about the
value to the color or the shape. It's actual physicality and structure of
the geometric shape that's carrying vernacular architecture rather than the
the weight of the form. As the light image of architecture, which I have
intermingles and mixes with the color, worked with previously,
it does change it, and penetrates the Architecture really becomes part of
space in a different way. I am trying to the piece. There is a revolving exchange
capture that ineluctable sense of light of surfaces and form between the

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