FADE TO BLACK Radio: Ep.

1689 Richard Doty: DisInfo in Ufology

https://youtu.be/oE-Bl88LV30?t=2125

35:17
[Music]
35:34
all right welcome back fade to black i am your host jimmy church i got a stretch i got to get ready
35:40
rick dodie's here tonight that's right
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we've got a lot to talk about oh i got a little short in my headphones hold on
35:50
let's see if i'm back i'm back he was born in new york state but grew up in a military family then
served this
35:56
country in the united states air force he was hired by the air force office of special investigation
after intending
36:04
intelligence course taught by the air force office of and special investigations defense
intelligence
36:11
agency and the central intelligence agency he served at kirkland air force
36:16
base as a counterintelligence officer he saw duty at the nevada test site the air force test center
detachment 3 groom
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lake nevada he also investigated the coyote cannon canyon ufo sighting on kirkland air
36:29
force base and of course the paul benowitz incident he was also assigned to afosi european
headquarters
36:37
we spotted oh we spotted really i didn't know that as a counter espionage agent
36:44
after leaving the afosi he was assigned to the air force reserve
36:49
unit and later was employed by the state of new mexico he also worked for the institute for
advanced studies and uh
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with hal put off and today he's retired and employed as a consultant he's actually a movie star
and it's featured
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in gaia tv's cosmic disclosure and uh we've got links for rick below and i
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would like to welcome back to fade to black rick doty richard dodie rick dodie how you doing
tonight sir great jimmy
37:15
great to be here randy on your show yeah and i love the smile you know and and uh
37:23
you know i i know rick's like okay man i hope this goes well but but here's the
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thing let's uh let's actually just start out of the gate uh rick you and i know each other
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um we've had our bumps in you know in in the road in the past but we've hung out
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we broke bread uh i think we've had a cocktail or two uh as well i've even introduced you i
37:46
think wait a minute were you on one of my panels once yes i was yeah yeah okay so we've kind
of you
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know we've done everything uh uh um uh in the past so
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it just it it with the measure of trust i have to ask this
38:05
you know um that there are people listening to the show right now that are going
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we can't believe anything that comes out of dodie's mouth you know how can we trust what he
says
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and this is something that you're confronted with i'm sure or you feel that pressure every single
day
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um i need your response to that well
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i had a job to do years ago with the air force office special investigations as a
counterintelligence officer
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uh a lot of my work wasn't pleasant work a lot of it uh
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involved disinformation misinformation uh a lot of that information has leaked
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or been uh released through foia over the years and
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the one thing that people hold against me is the paul benowitz case yes
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my actuality uh well and you can include me right in that we have talked about
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this okay absolutely uh and uh the story is i i was instructed to do an
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operation against paul binowitz because of what he knew and what he was doing
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and i had to provide him information that wasn't totally accurate
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but but if if if you've read the report many people
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have and uh listened to me and some of the people even have talked to paul before
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he passed away they found out the truth is i never fed him anything
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that he didn't want to hear paul bennowitz was al already a believer in ufos
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and so it wasn't difficult for me to convince him of what we wanted him to believe and
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that's what they hold against me uh all these years i mean i i used to get
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hundreds and hundreds of emails probably 60 percent of them pretty nasty ones but
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today in 2 and 2022 i still get a lot of emails but but most of them are really
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positive i still get some negative ones and as long as they're uh polite
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negative uh i'll answer i'll respond to them but um
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i'm not the the horrible uh evil person that people
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uh thought of me and and primarily because of paul benowitz uh when people get to know me
and meet
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me uh they like me but you sit down and talk because
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i mean i've i've i've had some rick rick is that disinformation
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is acting that role part of the the agent's job
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oh absolutely yeah it is i mean we're taught to we're we're taught that
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we're taught to do that but i left government service and and other than
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air force reserves uh which i didn't have anything to do with ufos uh i left government services
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years ago and uh i didn't i didn't didn't work in that particular arena
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since now now jumping to to here today
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there are people out there that are performing disinformation against the ufo community and i've
known
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him i know about him i've tried to out him some people listen to me some people
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don't but we have to be kept be really really careful i mean we
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i consider myself self still within the ufo community
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we have to be very careful of what people are saying now today about the ufo phenomena
41:59
our uap phenomena and uh how that could harm
42:04
uh future disclosure and i'm gonna we're we're obviously gonna talk about that uh in the show
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um let me ask you uh another direct question
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um you you retired in 2000 right
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i retired no from government service i retired in 1988. oh okay uh now i was in the reserves
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well you were in the reserves in 1894 and yeah i did i was in the air force reserves
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uh up till 94. okay my intelligence service ended
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in 88 in 88 would could could you comment about what your job
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would have been like if you had social media in 1988
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oh wow um we could have manipulated
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uh we could have been sitting at a desk on a computer manipulating
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uh everyone we wanted to manipulate we could have been feeding so much
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misinformation through the social media network that um
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it would have changed people's thinking because i i know that you heard my
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comments opening up the show yes and if if we go back and and think about
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uh some of the you know pretty pretty monsters pretty huge uh dis info campaigns obviously
project blue book
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imagine if project blue book was dealt with on social media holy crap right it
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would have been a totally different game uh the mj-12 documents if social media
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would have been around the internet was in its infancy uh back then uh for sure
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but it would have been a different game with social media project serpo which was um on the
internet but there
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was no social media then that was a website so again it's effectiveness
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but the when you put an envelope in the mail right with a roll of film in it
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um that that's like printing flyers to your band's concert right
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you're just you're hoping for the best right and it's it's a slow process
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but with social media today it's instant and certainly uh anybody in washington dc in the game
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understands this oh absolutely you know disinformation or misinformation or
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disinformation whatever you'll call it uh it's false information that tends to deceive something
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deceive an operation or to see people and um
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it's it it still goes on today it's a normally what we
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the main purpose of of disinformation a bit back in the days when i was taught
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went to we actually went to a classroom and taught how to uh to spread this
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information was to deceive the soviet union deceive our enemies
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but you can use it in any type of operation to deceive someone and just think about it
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it happens all the time in industry uh one particular uh
45:27
company is trying to deceive trying to get up her hand on another company so they spread false
information about
45:34
the another person's product that's disinformation it happens all the time happens as a society it
happens
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in the social structure of our society where one neighbor doesn't like another neighbor
45:48
so he spreads false information about that lit neighbor i mean it's it's just
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it's just like that it it and it's always going to happen it's
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it's just how well you do it and i believe me uh during my time in
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from night in the late 70s up to the 80s
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we were good at it we were very very very good at disinformation we call it
46:15
counterintelligence operations to to protect special access programs uh and we were very very
good at it and let
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me give you an example of what yeah please what we did what we did um when i worked out at
area 51
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nellis testing training range most of most of that area was in nye county
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back in those days night count prostitution was legal in ny county
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so we were afraid that the people that were working on classified projects and believe me
46:50
there were many highly classified programs and projects going on at
46:56
tonopah air base or area 51 or even a nevada test site
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so what we did was we went out and we recruited every single prostitute
47:07
in nye county basically every every every uh
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prostitute in that county and even esmeralda county which kind of borders it
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were under our control we paid them we paid them more than they were getting doing tricks
because we were afraid
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that military air force primarily air force people would come in and be serviced by him and
believe me that
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happened all the time sure about that uh we didn't want the information that
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they had leaking through them through the prostitutes
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out to the public so we owned them all and uh
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and we made some uh big uh uh major operations uh
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stopping the leak of information uh classified information out of special projects
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from being leaked into the public by disinformation so that's just one example can i ask you a
question i know
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you're married uh were you married then no i was not married then oh so then you
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could go and and hang out with ladies of the night
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and and exchange cash and and that's that sounds like a pretty
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good uh uh uh uh a pretty fun gig
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and and one that you could get away with because you weren't married i cannot i can just see
you
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at one of these brothels um uh doing this how when you're talking were you trying to
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get information back out of these uh women of ill repute these ladies of the
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night to see if if somebody was talking to them well yes uh
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what we did was we approached him and we told him right up front uh
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you're gonna have tricks that are air force or military people and they might tell you some
information that could be
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classified so we want to know about that and we're going to pay you money
49:09
so sure enough uh they'll call they'd call us not not everyone i mean there were a lot of air
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force people that went there and there and did their thing and paid paid their uh 30 or 40 dollars
49:21
for their pleasure and never said anything or never disclosed anything but there were a lot of
them
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that went in there and tried to impress the prostitutes by saying you know i'm working on this
really
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classified project out there and and you know there's aliens out there
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and and these things like that wow so what they would do is they would immediately contact us
and and say
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listen uh we got it you know i had a trick that told me some information
49:50
so then we had to go out there and it wasn't just me there were a lot of other agents involved in
this and they were
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going out there and they would talk to to the to the prostitute and say well
50:01
you know he's just trying to impress you none of that stuff is real uh you know and and we would
have to
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give provide them with this information and so and that's how it worked and we actually
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uh one air force pilot that was flying back in those days in the early 80s
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uh the f-117 stealth aircraft was uh
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was being tested out there and it's highly classified back then this pilot went in and told
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his prostitute that he was flying this really super secret plane called the
50:38
f-119 not the f-117 and he told he told him that
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he told his prostitute that all the technology was from the aliens that gave it to us
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so uh they you know we had to really really press this particular prostitute and we ended up
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finding the of course finding the air force captain kicking him out of the program
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and kicking him out of the air force so wow yeah i i i can i can hear it now
51:13
dodie sure is spending a lot of time out at mary's fun palace
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county and trump
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okay so is there a certain amount of you know going back to social media today
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and the way that you did things in the past is there some elements of truth
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in with the misinformation and disinformation to to
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keep it feeling real yes you have to provide some real
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information in order for your target to believe it and and it may be just a little bit
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or it may be a lot to in in order for them to buy into it
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and um and then and then you have you have people that are very smart that you're dealing
with such as linda howell i mean
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i okay i was going to bring that up okay so many may not know what we're about to
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talk about so i'm just going to give a brief uh summary um and
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uh i've got to disclose i've spoken to linda at length about this privately
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i've spoken to rick about this at length privately i've gotten both sides of the
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story i'm going to say that 90 of it completely interlocks okay all right and
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so basically uh linda was invited out to kirkland
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and was promised uh she was in the middle of this hbo documentary that uh was in the works
and it was in
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pre-production um there was some the white house was uh
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she was trying to get the i think that hbo wanted the white house involved and and the president
involved
53:06
and so with all of this she's invited out to kirkland she is
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going to be presented some documents and she
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uh goes into your office um you had a mirror
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you were videotaping i think she even saw a camera above her i think she said that there was a
camera in the room um
53:29
and you told her that she could read the documents but she couldn't take them with her right
now
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um so that's that's the summary of it now let's go back to
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the contents of those documents with some of it
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facts with disinformation as a matter of fact disinformation misinformation two
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different definitions we'll circle back to that for some clarification
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but uh what was the purpose of showing linda these docs uh was it to
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find her sources uh was it was there something else involved there that
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had nothing to do with ufos we needed to find our sources we knew uh
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i got involved in this late i mean there were other agencies involved in this operation
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we knew that she was coming to and i'm not going to go into great details of how we knew all
this stuff
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but we knew what she was doing okay we knew where she was going we knew
54:38
who she was talking to for the most part and we knew she was coming to albuquerque
54:45
and so she was invited by me through jerry miller
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um who worked with me to the base and i was going to talk to her and show
54:58
her something that would help her in her with her ub
55:04
hbo special so so she came out to the base and like you said she was in a room
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uh two way mirror there were agents on the other side filming her plus there was a camera
inside we had a microphone
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in there too she was fully aware that we were filming you know at one point years ago she said
55:24
she didn't but she's smart she told me now she told me she looked up and saw a camera like
55:29
above the door and she was sitting in the middle of the room your desk was on one end right
right
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okay yeah that's the way that she presented that with me and she said that the chair was
awkwardly placed right
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right because we had to get her right in front of the right
55:50
anyways uh now the day before
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these documents came in through a pouch uh armed forces carrier pouch so i knew
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they were top secret from headquarters now uh and i was told
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the pro the the operation was to show her these documents she couldn't take any notes
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and she couldn't keep anything she couldn't take any photographs of anything so
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i had a chance prior to showing them to her
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to read them now i'm the middle guy now i'm not you gotta understand that i
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didn't know what headquarters knew i was this is what i was told to do and
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i did what i was told to do i gave him to her she read him she started asking me questions about
56:43
them some of the questions i could answer some of them i couldn't now what we were hoping
that
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after reading these documents which i know that some of the information in there was accurate
but a lot of the
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information in there wasn't accurate what we were hoping
57:02
was she'd come around to our side because she had two sources within the
57:08
government that was providing her information that was of of of classified uh me
57:14
it was classified information so we wanted to know who those people were and that was the
basis of of our
57:20
operation against linda howell so after i showed her those um i said to
57:27
her listen uh i'd like to get to know you like you
57:32
know what you're doing as far as programming and so forth and she said sure you know
57:38
you never had too many friends so i kept the friendship with her uh trying to
57:44
delve into this i'm better in washington dc i've met her in and met her in new york city
57:50
uh trying to find these people well
57:55
first of all linda howe very brilliant person very very brilliant
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and she knew what i was trying to do and she wasn't going to run with it in
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fact we were having we were in um georgetown
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at a cafe uh having lunch and i i pitched her i i i did the
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pitching by saying listen what i want you to do is work for us
58:25
we'll pay you you just tell me what you know and she just sat there and listened to
58:32
me for some time and she said not no but hell no
58:39
in a play way anyways um she was a tough cookie to
58:45
to crack anyways i maintained contact with her for some time and then another agent became
involved
58:51
with that operation but uh that's that's how it went and and
58:57
we actually accomplished one of the missions was to uh end the hbo
59:03
uh that special because they were going to air something that we didn't want that the
government didn't
59:10
want us intelligence didn't want and we were capable well we were able to
59:15
uh end that and so part of our mission was successful let's take our break right here and when
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we come back there's a reason why uh rick shared that with us and
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in in in today's world in social media by leaking
59:34
or presenting information to individuals
59:39
will they turn around and and post it on social media and that
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that is a very very uh effective tool to see who's
59:50
talking and who is not and how you can turn around and get the conversation
59:55
going when you need it we're going to talk more about that when we come back after this short
break our guest tonight
1:00:00
rick dodi we're talking about miss info dis info in ufology and our ufo
1:00:06
community more that and much more when we come back after this short break i'm real shimmy
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[Music]
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[Music] welcome back fate to black how many of
1:05:23
us jimmy church tonight rick doty is with us for talking about misinformation and disinformation
in
1:05:29
the ufo community and ufology in general uh listening to the break there uh with
1:05:35
a micah hanks i just spent the weekend uh with micah i haven't had that much fun i haven't
laughed that hard
1:05:43
uh in a very long time my ganks is amazing and and more on what we were doing coming up
here very soon and and
1:05:51
we'll have full disclosure on that hey rick um let's get into some definitions real
1:05:57
quick as we get to the meat of the matter uh what's going on today uh what's the difference
between
1:06:03
misinformation and disinformation let's go to alphabetical order what is disinformation
disinformation is false
1:06:10
information provided to deceive some someone something some entity some
1:06:17
government misinformation is the actual information
1:06:22
that is given that's going to be misinformation rather than
1:06:28
the actual bread and butter we're going to change it around
1:06:34
so uh it's given right to uh misinformation is normally given to a
1:06:39
person this information is part of an operation oh i got you oh that's a big difference okay
1:06:45
misinformation would be like the document or what is verbally said yes yes exactly and
disinformation is the
1:06:52
agenda all right okay got you got you um i have
1:06:58
uh i have i have i got to be very careful on how i'm i'm
1:07:05
i'm wording this i have been told lots of things over the years of course okay
1:07:10
all right i have lots of people approach me and i have relationships out there but i
1:07:17
don't share it i keep it all inside i don't talk to people about it i don't i don't get on the phone and
go
1:07:24
guess what i you know i don't do that i and i don't speak about it on the air um
1:07:30
and and i think that there is a couple of things that have happened because of that one
1:07:37
um if anybody is attempting to use a disinformation campaign or give
1:07:43
misinformation to me it doesn't work because i don't turn around and share it
1:07:49
but there's a second thing that has resulted from this
1:07:55
i observe right so i know what i'm told so i listen to what other people are
1:08:01
saying and i read what other people are posting and i see if it is also out there
1:08:10
because i know what i was told allegedly you know in
1:08:15
in in confidence right and that it's it's it's getting out there in other areas and sometimes
1:08:21
it's even changed a little bit and and so i look back with squinty eyes
1:08:27
and i go okay all right there's something going on here but i don't talk about it and i
1:08:34
don't i don't want to be a part of the story but i will certainly observe
1:08:39
um and and that's the case and i watch this and it is going on right now today
1:08:48
oh yes you know the social media
1:08:53
today is something i wish we had would have had years ago
1:08:58
but social media is a public forum
1:09:04
that means anyone can access it
1:09:09
and of course that means government entities such as
1:09:15
air force intelligence dia cia fbi
1:09:21
dea so the social media open up opens up a wide
1:09:28
range of access into the public
1:09:34
itself and the government is taking advantage
1:09:39
of these social medias twitter
1:09:45
so forth and so on so it's easy
1:09:50
to post something on in some chat room or on facebook
1:09:56
or on uh uh instagram or twitter twitter thread
1:10:04
meaning the united states air force isn't going to post it but somebody within air force
1:10:11
intelligence is going to contact contract somebody else who will contact the third person that will
post it
1:10:19
so it can't come back to us intelligence and then they're going to watch what happens with that
information
1:10:27
i've seen it on twitter in the last ufo uap information uap people wanting
1:10:35
us to believe something about the uap program they post something about lou elizondo
1:10:42
or chris mellons or me or somebody else and then they want it and they see how
1:10:48
far it runs so it it's happening it's happening it's happened for ever
1:10:54
since uh social media has been in existence
1:10:59
now will that change people's minds yes it will change people's minds
1:11:06
it will it will bring people in or push people out and that's what somebody
1:11:13
wants they they want and maybe maybe the government and i don't know this for a fact i know
people
1:11:19
are going to say well maybe i'm still on the government i'm not uh i have a group of people that
i'm
1:11:24
working with uh and where i'm at right now actually uh jimmy i'm gonna disclose
1:11:31
that i moved from one place that i was talking to you about yesterday to another location closer
to you so i'm
1:11:38
actually in the same time zone of you with some people uh having meetings about some other
things that we're
1:11:44
trying to do including a u.s senator uh so we're we're one side of this disclosure
1:11:51
chris and lou is on another team trying to get this disclosure i'm not involved with
1:11:58
them and they're not involved with uh with us so i can tell you right now that i'm not
1:12:04
aligned with louis alizando or chris mullins they have their own agenda i was
1:12:09
invited into their group as as some of the other other people have that that
1:12:15
i'm working with but we've politely said no we're gonna we're gonna do it in a different way
1:12:21
and want want disclosure out there we want disclosure but there are entities within the
1:12:27
government that do not want disclosure and one of them is the united states space force they
do not want the colonel
1:12:35
if people have looked at youtube in the last several months during one of his interviews one of
the
1:12:41
colonels at uh colorado springs and air force base specifically says we're not
1:12:48
cooperating with any disclosure project they don't want it out there
1:12:53
because right now the space command has the ufo files
1:12:59
i know that for a fact and so they want to keep things secretive
1:13:06
um now there's other entities within the government that want
1:13:11
want the subject out uh i think the fact that they had the the the congressional hearings some
time
1:13:18
ago this summer that was a flop total flop because the two people that were
1:13:24
there to answer questions although they're very honorable people they had no idea what they
were talking about
1:13:30
they had no idea about anything in the past no history whatsoever
1:13:35
they didn't even know what roswell was that's right yeah randall and
1:13:40
it's just ridiculous that they have them out there and they couldn't answer any of the questions
1:13:47
what about um uh the ability to
1:13:53
uh have a a fake account you know on twitter or on facebook or on
1:14:00
instagram or tick tock whatever um it's got to be very inexpensive uh
1:14:07
for i because i picture uh a platoon right
1:14:14
you know in the air force uh uh nsa whatever pic pic um sitting in a
1:14:20
room running social media where one enlisted person
1:14:26
has uh a hundred accounts that they're running and and they're out there established in
1:14:31
social media and and and running an agenda a disinformation campaign
1:14:37
oh that's true yeah exactly in fact we interviewed uh
1:14:42
two two weeks ago we interviewed uh a female who had just got out of the
1:14:47
air force uh she served uh six or seven years in she got out of the air force
1:14:53
and we interviewed her on camera for a show that's going to appear sometime later
1:15:00
about that same she was in that group she was sitting in a a bunker
1:15:05
a below ground bunker and she was in the air force and her job
1:15:12
was to monitor social media and and spread information
1:15:18
that she's told was told to spread that's all her job was in her six years in the air force
1:15:25
it was that that's what she did and there were as you said another platoon well in air
1:15:30
force you call them flights there was a whole flight of people uh uh in her in
1:15:35
this in this room in front of very sophisticated computers
1:15:41
uh monitoring and spreading information i mean
1:15:47
she fully admitted it she told us some things that's gonna that i don't want to talk about now but
1:15:53
how they did things and how they they were able to to to get stuff out
1:15:58
and how the counts were set up which is quite uh quite extraordinary uh
1:16:05
they were using real names of real people uh with their sanctioned they were paid
1:16:11
these people are you know joe john doe from
1:16:16
flint michigan as a real person but they're using his name and his identity
1:16:23
and he's fully aware of it to set these accounts up
1:16:28
it's it it has to be done that way it has to be effective because if anybody's going to go
backwards and look into one
1:16:34
of these accounts you'd yeah exactly and see that it's an actual real person
1:16:40
and if you want to do a deeper dive you could probably even get their their address and
employment information then
1:16:46
you find out the real people it's just not a made-up name like ben guess bit fill my pockets right
or whatever
1:16:54
that these are actual names um and i want to circle back for a second you mentioned um the
space force
1:17:03
um it has also uh there there's something weird going on in social media
1:17:10
with lou elizondo in the space force that he is a member of the space force
1:17:17
and i don't believe that he is and it's not that i'm questioning this i i think that this is the way that
it
1:17:23
is handled out there on social media um not not directly from lou himself he
1:17:29
could be a paid consultant or something but to be a member of space force you have to be
enlisted right you have to be
1:17:36
in uniform i've been to the space force base here in california i saw a spacex launch
1:17:42
myself i interacted with space force personnel and they are all in uniform
1:17:48
right and and so is that uh misinformation and disinformation
1:17:55
um on social media to present lou as as an enlisted member
1:18:02
of the space force when indeed he is not that could be very well i i i've heard
1:18:08
this and i and and i've had a number of emails sent to me asking me that same question
1:18:14
i don't know that he's associated all with space force i don't know if that's just disinformation
that's being spread
1:18:21
by somebody to discredit lou uh but uh you're right i mean they
1:18:27
they'd have to be uh members they would have to be either a uh you know enlisted or an officer
or
1:18:33
they would have to be uh some civilian gs uh
1:18:39
level employee but and i don't think he is but again i don't know for a fact i just
1:18:45
heard the same rumor you have i like this comment here from the chat room sounds like
1:18:51
ufo twitter was created by the air force to misinform us and
1:18:59
i don't know much about ufo twitter and i i haven't participated i i don't know
1:19:04
anything about it and it's a small part of of the ufo community the ufo community is huge
1:19:11
and i would say that the majority of the ufo community isn't on twitter at all
1:19:16
right let alone ufo twitter um and it's it's a very but what goes on
1:19:23
there um certainly could be controlled uh through uh fake accounts and
1:19:30
and and those that want to influence opinion oh absolutely yeah yeah absolutely
1:19:37
and and you can easily influence it wouldn't take diff it wouldn't take much uh
1:19:43
much work to to misinform uh and disinform people
1:19:48
on the social media i mean just one little bit of information can travel
1:19:54
uh to to millions of people and then that little bit those millions will
1:20:00
threat will send it to more and next thing you know if you plan it you plan it right you're going to
get 20
1:20:08
or 30 million people thinking of reading the same thing and starting to change their opinion on
something yeah because
1:20:14
i was getting this is what what i found really really strange is i started to get a flood of email
1:20:22
um from people saying you need to be careful church because lou is a member of the space
1:20:28
force and and he knows what's going on and i thought where
1:20:34
where did this rumor get started member member of the space force i don't think
1:20:40
a member of the space force is hanging out on social media i just don't i don't
1:20:46
think i don't think washington would uh like for something uh you know like that to be going on
um but
1:20:54
but people once you post it out there enough times it becomes truth that's right that's
1:21:00
exactly how it works exactly how it works and we used to post things in newspapers of course
we
1:21:07
didn't have the internet back in those days uh but we would post things in newspapers or
1:21:13
we'd co-op news people we when i was in
1:21:18
kirtland we we had sources within every entity of the news business
1:21:24
newspapers the radio stations and the television stations
1:21:30
and we if we wanted something aired we we got it aired if we didn't want something aired
1:21:36
they would narrow it or they would distort it for us so uh and that's that's how it happens in
1:21:43
in intelligence uh the only way we could
1:21:49
manipulate uh the local surroundings would be owning the television or
1:21:54
newspaper uh and also i was watching the comments here in the chat room yes
1:21:59
uh uh rick is at a secret location he's at a hotel
1:22:05
somewhere in the middle of the desert um uh doing the show tonight
1:22:11
and uh there you go uh well i'm gonna talk about that if if i get a chance
1:22:16
about why i'm here oh what okay no why
1:22:21
why are you there okay a few months ago uh well several months ago
1:22:28
we our group got a hold of an entry control roster
1:22:35
for all of area 51. the roster was dated
1:22:43
from january 1st 1979 to december 31st 1990.
1:22:50
it's on one of these old uh computer dot matrix i'm sure you've seen them before 24
1:22:58
inch wide uh computer printouts right a form feed form
1:23:04
yeah uh there's about 3 000 pages everyone that had access
1:23:10
to uh debt 3 air force test and test flight center which was at area
1:23:17
51. air force research and development operations center which was right in
1:23:22
that same area southern nellis test range which is just north of creech air force base in
1:23:29
that area there site sydney which is a communication site insight homie which is the actually
1:23:36
airfield at area 51. so what we're doing now
1:23:42
is we're going through that and we're going to out people who claim to have been there during
that time
1:23:48
period now it's only between january 1st 1979
1:23:55
to december 31st 1990 everyone that had access
1:24:02
to those locations uh their their their last name first name middle initial okay bob lazar is he
1:24:10
on that is he on this yes he is bob bob lazar is on that list
1:24:15
but only for a very short period of time and we're going to we're going to go through this and
we're going to out some
1:24:21
people and then we're going to go back and and and and and show that some people who claim
that they were there
1:24:28
nobody wants to believe him they were there uh but uh and and
1:24:35
this has a lot of other information on it but it's only during that time period now
1:24:40
you know we can't say who was there after that or or even before that
1:24:45
but there's a lot of people out there who claimed to have been there during that time period that
they weren't there
1:24:51
we we can prove that they weren't there they didn't have any access now all we're going to say
is your
1:24:56
name's not on it is your name on it well my name's on it yes the first thing i looked at was my
name
1:25:04
and it's there my name is there and and the people that uh i'm
1:25:09
i work with it our former retired intelligence officers that were there uh
1:25:15
their names are there too so uh everyone who claims uh within the
1:25:20
intelligence community that i've spoken with or that have talked to me about it who
1:25:25
or went public who spoke with uh annie jacobson and alex ward
1:25:32
um they they're on it every one of those people that annie spoke with
1:25:38
uh they're they're on it uh and some of them for the entire period of
1:25:43
time so and then there's some people out there who are making these wild accusations about
being out there and
1:25:51
seeing things and doing things their name's not on there and i'm all we're going to do is say
listen your
1:25:56
name's not out here why is it on there let them talk about that and that's what that's what our
1:26:02
project is right now i mean that's one of our projects um and and that's part of this documentary
1:26:08
that we're going to do uh there's a lot of people involved good producers and directors involved
uh it's
1:26:14
it's behind the time because of poet we had to stop filming we were filming all around area 51
1:26:20
setting up trail cameras filming everything that was flying out of the area 51 or
1:26:27
the nellis test and training range uh going to be a great great documentary
1:26:32
i mean a fantastic documentary once we get it finished and we had we had to go
1:26:37
back and cut some things out because the air force is filed some wanted to file a junction
1:26:43
against us because what we we saw what we did so we had to do some some
1:26:49
cutting out but and along with that we're gonna we're gonna out these people who claimed they
1:26:54
were there but bob lazar was there i mean his name's on there
1:27:00
very interesting um can i circle back real quick before we get to the break uh you mentioned uh
1:27:06
that there was something in that was supposed to be in linda's hbo documentary that the air
force didn't
1:27:12
want in there what was that it was uh the uh it was
1:27:19
she was talking about an incident that happened uh prior to the um
1:27:24
1916 1974 landing at holloman air force base eminem supposedly was going to she gave
1:27:32
her saw the film uh linda had access to something
1:27:37
that the government didn't want anybody to see was still classified uh hbo had it
1:27:44
uh and then hbo turned it over to some of our uh intelligence people
1:27:50
what did hbo have did they have film or did they have they actually had the original film
1:27:57
really yeah and some of it has leaked out i mean that there's there's a 15 sec 50 i
1:28:03
believe it was 15 seconds yeah yeah we've all seen that um but uh the actual
1:28:09
real i mean that's the you know three minutes it or 33 minutes yeah that's the holy grail of
ufology
1:28:16
i've talked to a couple of people that uh one that saw a copy of know when i saw the you know
the actual name talked
1:28:23
to the producers and and and stuff that were involved in m edgar's project
1:28:29
um but uh that's the holy grail right where is the original film
1:28:34
yeah that's i mean i've seen that uh well i've just seen the 33 minutes
1:28:39
i've saw the of course the 15 second one you can look at and then i saw the uh i think it was
seven uh seven minutes
1:28:47
or or something i i can't remember exactly how long it was it was less than ten minutes i believe
it was seven seconds that's
1:28:54
seven minutes which was extraordinary i mean it showed the landing and showed
1:28:59
the the creatures coming out of the spaceship that doesn't show the meeting with the uh military
people but because
1:29:05
that's on the other the rest of the the 26 minutes that uh
1:29:12
there's people that have talked about it i mean i know how put off had a friend
1:29:17
uh that saw the whole thing and and thought it was extraordinary and uh knew it wasn't made by
the government
1:29:25
because it was you know 1976 64 incident
1:29:30
and so um and the the government got what they want i mean they the operation was
1:29:37
successful they they got it back um what did linda i've never talked to linda
1:29:42
about this did she see it i'm not sure uh you'd have to ask her
1:29:48
executives at hbo that saw the holloman film
1:29:53
that there are civilians out there outside of ufology that have seen this
1:29:59
well all i can say is i knew they had it i don't know if you know who saw it
1:30:05
but but i knew and and that wasn't my operation it was a it was the agents that were working in
new york area and
1:30:11
in washington so you know i didn't have access to everything that they were doing there but but
they got the film back
1:30:18
let's take our break right here i got to get this in rick you stay right there this is fade to black i am
your host
1:30:24
jimmy church tonight rick dodie is here we're talking about misinformation disinformation
1:30:30
inside of the ufo community and ufology in general more with rick when we come
1:30:36
back after this short break this is fade to black
1:30:44
[Music]
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way out here we listen to jimmy church you're listening to fade to black
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you are listening to fade to black with jimmy church on the game changer network
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hi i'm lisa vance you're listening to jimmy church this is revolution the revolution
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will not be televised the revolution is on radio
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ciao [Music]
1:36:26
so [Music]
1:36:38
[Applause] [Music]
1:36:45
welcome back fade to black i'm your host jimmy church tonight rick dodi is with us we're
1:36:51
talking about miss info disinfo inside of the ufo community and the possibility of that
1:36:58
and uh rick just yeah rick just dropped a bomb on us uh with this uh list of names and and
1:37:05
bob lazar uh a list of names from workers um at area 51 bob i i just popped that
1:37:12
out on twitter so in your secret identity on twitter um
1:37:17
rick you can go and read that and uh
1:37:24
the men in black should be knocking on your door uh pretty soon i hope you've made copies of
this list
1:37:30
and you've got some uh stashed away well we when we first obtained it
1:37:37
um we had a problem finding uh some place to copy it
1:37:42
i mean it's not an easier yeah right right and so we didn't want to go to a
1:37:48
a business like staples or office depot or office max
1:37:55
but we actually found a library at a college that has an old printing system that can
1:38:02
copy it so that that's what we did and then we had to verify it we got to make sure it
1:38:08
was in fact government that it uh you know it wasn't was a real thing and that was easy to do
1:38:15
because uh just by the nature of it and by the
1:38:20
the markings on it it wasn't classified it's not classified we submitted foia requests
1:38:27
uh to get to verify that the existence that that it's real
1:38:32
and there's a code on it at the top of it and when the the government
1:38:39
the dia [Music] was the administrative controller for this
1:38:45
uh they they initially told us uh that it was they couldn't release it
1:38:52
i said well we already have it we already have it you want to come and look at it we can't mail it
to you but
1:38:58
here it is and then they came back and said oh yeah okay we can verify it it's not
1:39:03
classified it's it's obsolete so they're not gonna they're not gonna comment on
1:39:09
it so now we have that letter saying okay it's obsolete
1:39:14
and it's it's basically verification that's real and and then we went and we found a lot
1:39:20
of people now this i'm sure there's a lot of people on this list that are dead and uh and we did
verify some of that
1:39:27
but we went back and verified a lot of people who are still alive that are retired from different
1:39:33
different agencies now this is a list of everyone including military
1:39:38
civilian contractors and government employees uh raytheon hughes aircraft
1:39:45
uh motorola general dynamics
1:39:51
lockheed before it was lockheed martin uh all those their names
1:39:57
are on there people that worked we went and found a lot of people in fact where we are right
now we've
1:40:04
we came and uh to speak to some people that uh are retired and uh that are on
1:40:10
that list and and and they're gonna verify and we're gonna get them on camera to say yeah
yeah you know i was
1:40:16
there um during that period and just to verify
1:40:21
that and then there's people from los alamos and sandia and
1:40:27
but ironically there's there's names of people
1:40:33
there that are associated with a contractor and we know that contractor work is basically a cover
for the cia
1:40:41
so there's nobody on this list that with their name
1:40:46
associated with a central intelligence agency it's all some other cover
1:40:51
sure well yeah and it ran that way for a long time i mean the base was constructed by the c.i.a
yeah you know
1:40:58
it was originally a cia back when it was called the ranch right and dreamland uh that was uh it
1:41:05
was cia um staffed by air force i think air force security right
1:41:10
um okay let's uh let's this is it's pretty exciting i feel like uh
1:41:17
uh that's pretty major but is it misinformation
1:41:22
from richard doty presented to jimmy church on fade to black so we'll leave that to the
community but
1:41:29
that's that's pretty cool uh richard well there's other there's other entities that got a hold of
1:41:35
we showed it to other people uh even some people in the air force uh current active duty people
a colonel
1:41:42
uh that's kind of on our team and some other people um so
1:41:47
it's real we're gonna we're gonna uh copy it and we're going to give we're gonna bring george
knapp in on
1:41:53
this um and some other people ironically
1:41:59
somebody who you would never think uh that had access out there
1:42:07
that had access his name is on here is our bell
1:42:12
artbell went to area 51 he went to new york cell had access there from
1:42:17
uh he was it well as showed him had having access
1:42:22
on june 17th 1979 to september 19 1979
1:42:32
he was a contract employee for bcrs which is the
1:42:38
bcrs is the uh
1:42:43
television station the the close circuit television station
1:42:48
for the base get the hell out of here yeah
1:42:55
i know i said the same thing and i tell you what i've known art forever uh before he died i mean i
i've been out
1:43:01
there to his house i've been on this program and the art never mentioned that he was
1:43:07
ever out there what yeah now he was either
1:43:13
somehow associated with uh the the t closed circuit tv station
1:43:19
out there for i don't know what reason maybe an advisor maybe he set up some equipment for
him or something to that
1:43:26
now one thing it doesn't show is a security clearance doesn't show he had a security clearance
1:43:32
so maybe he they just brought him out there to set something up for him i don't know
1:43:37
he's dead so we can't we can't talk to him about it but um he was out there in that short period of
1:43:44
time i can't handle this i can't have too
1:43:49
much i couldn't handle it when i saw it i thought well it can't be the same art bell and then i
started looking in you
1:43:55
know date of birth and stuff all matched his so okay
1:44:00
yeah man i've got a hundred million okay um we've got to get off on to get off on
1:44:07
the subject because i want to get back to misinformation and disinformation i feel like i am
1:44:15
i feel like a tool now you're feeding me this stuff you're spreading it rick
1:44:20
you're spreading it right now um wow really really tough though
1:44:25
i mean bob lazar that that's a that's that's that's hard enough to swallow
1:44:31
i mean only because he hasn't had anything right it's everything has been uh uh completely
1:44:39
circumstantial but if if this is the case and this has got a document number on it
1:44:45
and it you know you've researched the provenance and to make sure that it it was what it is but
1:44:51
to have bob lazar's name on it you know um the ufo community is i've already posted
1:44:58
it in twitter you know and and we'll see how this goes okay let's let's swing this back around
1:45:04
though back to [Music] what is going on on social media
1:45:11
and through uh if you're gonna do this you're gonna do this in all media outlets
1:45:18
um there is something pretty effective going on rick and that is
1:45:24
uh uaps are technology
1:45:29
here on earth man-made then you have the other side that it's it's it some of it most of it
1:45:37
is alien and is visiting us and there seems to be something going on
1:45:42
right now on social media that is trying to push this away uh from the alien conversation and that
1:45:50
the alien conversation is a cover-up of highly classified technology that the
1:45:56
united states in is in possession of and it's got people arguing and fighting
1:46:02
about this right now is that a disinformation campaign
1:46:07
oh i would say so yes it sounds that way to me although i you know i don't know anything other
than what i read on the social media but
1:46:15
if i was to run an operation uh to protect some kind of special access program
1:46:20
knowing that this information we have the technology that we have at the area 51 or wherever
1:46:27
um is is that we we obtained uh somewhere
1:46:33
uh yeah i would i would i would protect it the same way now
1:46:39
what what is confusing is that you know chris mellon uh sent something
1:46:45
out saying let's get away from the ufo let's only talk about uaps
1:46:52
and only in the context of what the navy wants to talk about
1:46:57
um i find that disingenuous because why
1:47:03
let's let's keep the subject open um
1:47:08
historically speaking we didn't have uaps we had ufos
1:47:14
or we had known alien crafts identified we had
1:47:19
identified airline craft iacs i mean that's in documents that fran uh stan
1:47:25
friedman had had seen and and uh it's in some of the mj-12 documents we know
1:47:32
some is factual and some is not um but
1:47:37
we we we have to keep the subject open in a wider sense
1:47:44
than what some people want us not to be not
1:47:49
to involve and and chris mullins mentioned that stuff earlier and i read that what he
1:47:54
said what he we talked about and i i scratched my head why why is he saying that
1:48:00
i mean let's let's talk about every single realm of the ufo phenomena
1:48:05
let's keep that out there let's not close any books on that because
1:48:11
if you close the book and say let's just leave that over there and we're going to talk only about
this subject that's
1:48:18
going to block out a lot of good information that needs to to stay out there in public
1:48:24
to force disclosure and the more we can press the government on
1:48:29
disclosure the more that we can push knowledge that we have out here into the
1:48:35
government knowing letting them knowing what we know i think there's more of a chance for
1:48:41
disclosure the recent announcement
1:48:47
uh that and this came through foia john greenwald and the black vault he's does
1:48:53
some of the best work out there um in chasing down the facts
1:48:58
um and and does it through uh official government documents and so he
1:49:04
submitted a foia request uh for all uap videos right blanket i
1:49:11
just want all uap videos right and they came back and said we've got them but
1:49:17
you're not going to see them and they have now been labeled classified that's it
1:49:22
um in the interest of national security right which is always the blanket that
1:49:28
has put over these things national security and everybody freaks out on that and and they end
up not touching it
1:49:35
um i feel like that is almost a misdirection and misinformation too as
1:49:40
well and if it's if it's from outer space if it's
1:49:46
interstellar if it's not ours then what does that have to do with national
1:49:52
security and if it's if it is um and let me give you an example because the the
1:49:58
government is going to say well it's how we detect these things we don't want that we don't want
other russians to
1:50:04
know how good our equipment is our sensor data we can't let that out
1:50:11
this is not sensor data this is called a cell phone and if a pilot is shooting
1:50:17
something from his cockpit on a cell phone that is not the secret
1:50:23
radar fleer technology right um
1:50:28
on an aircraft that is picking the stuff up or satellites it's a cell phone
1:50:33
shouldn't we be uh entitled to see these things
1:50:38
well first of all we had the government always wants to protect sources and methods
1:50:44
uh i was involved with this for for 12 years whereby
1:50:50
you you have some sort of a source and a method to detect
1:50:57
or or gather intelligence and our government says you we're not going to disclose
1:51:03
sources or methods now as an example the congressional hearing
1:51:11
they had a closed camera after they they were in the public view
1:51:17
they went behind the camera they call in camera into a classified setting you
1:51:22
know what they talked about they talked about sources and methods how we filmed
1:51:28
that tic tac how we did they didn't disclose anything other than that because i had a senator tell
me
1:51:34
he said they didn't talk about anything other than sources and methods and they didn't even
1:51:39
talk about the sources or methods they just said we have these we have a
1:51:45
source that can detect this we have a method that to detect these things but
1:51:51
that's all they talked about well let me tell you something there's a secret space program out
there and the secret
1:51:57
space program is deep space probes we have satellites all over the
1:52:02
all over space in our solar system that can detect things coming in
1:52:08
now they're classified now this kernel that space command well this is before
1:52:15
u.s space force uh this was when space command was still in existence back in 2014
1:52:22
he said we have 174 methods of detecting things coming in from
1:52:29
from the solar system he just disclosed right there there's 174 deep space probes we have out
there
1:52:37
but he didn't say that he just said 174 okay so if you did dig deep into
1:52:44
uh what we what we have what we know and what others have talked about include including
people uh within
1:52:52
our employer their gaia and other other entities
1:52:58
we have we've launched things out of uh that the pilots of one of the discovery
1:53:03
in 19 in 1983 admitted that they launched a classified project a
1:53:09
classified satellite in this deep space he admitted that he told the public that
1:53:16
okay so we have object we have space satellites out there and they're detecting things
1:53:23
coming in all the time but the government doesn't want us to know or doesn't want you to know
1:53:30
that we have the deep space probes so they can't disclose methods
1:53:35
or sources of information of how these things are being detected now i
1:53:41
the navy said we're not gonna we're we're gonna uh not disclose any of
1:53:47
the any more of these uh these uh videos and videos
1:53:53
uh the air force said the same thing well the air force never did disclose theirs air force has 110
of them
1:53:59
sitting in a classified vault that would would scare the dickens out
1:54:04
of anyone that saw him but they're not going to disclose them and so
1:54:11
the coast guard the united states coast guard has has them they don't have jets they have see
what
1:54:18
they the c-130 cargo planes and rescue planes and helicopters and one over the
1:54:24
the northwest off vancouver island for 40 minutes
1:54:30
they filmed these two things the two spacecraft alien spacecraft flying saucers as what the
1:54:37
pilot and the co-pilot said flying around their helicopters
1:54:42
they filmed it well that's classified it was taken over by the navy and the navy says that's
classified
1:54:49
so there's things out there even the canadian government the canadian air force has things that
they they're not
1:54:55
going to disclose that that have happened that they've they've filmed so
1:55:02
we have to get we have to get the government we have to get congress
1:55:08
to put pressure on the military to release these things now i understand
1:55:14
that there's a different branch because the military is an executive branch but there's there's
things that you can uh
1:55:21
the methods uh the congress can take to put pressure on the military
1:55:28
to release some of this stuff now if we still had harry reid around god bless his soul
1:55:35
and he was still in the senate i think he could have done it but unfortunately we don't have
anybody
1:55:43
in the senate now in in leadership that that will do that well because
1:55:49
supposedly schumer dick schumer and mcconnell uh were briefed to keep
1:55:55
their mouth shut that's what one of the senators told us and they won't even bring it up
1:56:01
in the senate so that's what we have right now we have we're we're making our efforts
1:56:09
to get disclosure uh inside government but at this time
1:56:14
right now uh there's a block there's a there's a roadblock ahead of
1:56:19
us now the uh the odni report that came out last
1:56:25
august uh was that well-crafted wordsmith
1:56:31
uh disinformation yeah i would say so absolutely
1:56:36
i mean it caused the conversation to swing in another direction in another direction exactly yeah
1:56:42
and we've also missed um and i've i've been watching
1:56:47
um some of the chatter out there and from some very interesting uh accounts
1:56:54
um about uh the missing of the report that we were supposed to
1:57:00
already have this year now we're sitting on today is september 14th we missed the
1:57:05
six month window uh there's allegedly one that's gonna come out around halloween um uh
october
1:57:13
uh late october um and i'm wondering how that's gonna be
1:57:18
worded and and and you know again because you uh you're guiding the masses with this
1:57:26
and engaging the comments not only here in the ufo community but to our adversaries
1:57:33
around the world well we're working with a senator who has uh
1:57:40
who's informed us that some of the information that they were going to disclose
1:57:45
uh in a report they had to clear it through uh the military
1:57:51
uh the military extracted redacted uh
1:57:56
many paragraphs in that and i don't know how long the document was but they they they
1:58:03
redacted it so all the good stuff all the meat of that report that was supposed to come
1:58:10
out uh this in september uh has been uh redacted by the
1:58:16
government by the military by intelligence community because there it discloses sources and
methods
1:58:24
which i don't think it does i don't know i didn't read it i don't know what it contained but
1:58:30
but some of the aides some of the staff members
1:58:35
who had clearances tried to write it in a manner
1:58:40
that was avoiding any kind of classification but
1:58:46
the government didn't i guess the military didn't want it or the u.s intelligence didn't want it so i
don't know where we are right now
1:58:52
what about uh this uh the second is there gonna be a second ufo hearing
1:58:58
and will it be by the house or will it kick up a level to the senate and the senate
1:59:03
intelligence committee it's supposed to be the senate they they they had a plan for the senate
1:59:10
to hold hearings because the first one was a congress a house of representatives this one is
supposed to
1:59:15
be done by the senate the senate intelligence committee but that was blocked
1:59:22
by chuck schumer who's in charge of the senate right now
1:59:29
i guess because of of what's occurring within the government and and they want to keep some
of these
1:59:34
other things uh uh the uh the january sixth hearings and
1:59:41
and so and things like that open more open and available and plus
1:59:46
uh the senators are going to be uh leaving here shortly
1:59:52
for campaigning because you know there's an election this year so i don't think we're going to
see it and
1:59:58
unfortunately we're not we're not going to see it i think the senate hearings because we were
more involved our group
2:00:03
was more involved in that in our senate hearings and we were going to really we had some
excellent questions that we
2:00:10
were going to pose to whoever the intelligence community placed uh in front of the the hearing
2:00:17
and i understand there was going to be a a general an air force general and a um
2:00:24
somebody from the department of defense but that i don't think those hearings
2:00:29
are gonna are gonna materialize at this point which is a very i mean it's it's
2:00:35
frustrating to people out here who really want disclosure i mean we could
2:00:40
have disclosure without disrupting the intelligence community
2:00:45
about disrupting research and development just the fact that yes we've been visited
2:00:52
we have obtained uh materials uh from
2:00:58
the ets uh just those things those basic things that we want to know the public wanna
2:01:04
know wants to know and we can we could just do disclosure without harming the government
2:01:10
and and and how it was collected and uh and and anything else that would
2:01:17
be there but in the interest of national security certainly let's take our break right now rick i've got
to get this in
2:01:23
this is fade to black i'm your host jimmy church i guess tonight's been an explosive show
2:01:28
rick dodie art bell at area 51.
2:01:34
i'm going to leave that right there we'll be right back [Music]
2:01:44
hi everybody.com
2:01:51
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this is fade to black with jimmy church on the game changer radio network
2:04:56
[Music]
2:05:09
welcome back fade to block i'm not super sure tonight rick dodi is with us i can't handle it
2:05:16
i can't take it anymore ben incredible incredible rick um
2:05:22
uh what a great conversation tonight and uh i want to uh flip things around if i can
2:05:27
um recently uh john greenwald and the black vault
2:05:34
uh presented uh a video that that i watched about um i'm just going to call it i don't
2:05:41
have the exact name and i'll i'll leave that up to john but it's a document uh
2:05:46
and everybody can go and watch it over on on the youtube channel it's a operations manual
guide on on
2:05:55
classifications and dealing with uap
2:06:00
and in this guide um it i
2:06:06
i'm going to paraphrase go and watch john's video because it's excellent
2:06:13
um but that all the all uap data everything needs to be classified
2:06:19
this stuff doesn't need to go out into the public and if that's what it's dealing and now i'm
paraphrasing but the
2:06:24
overall arching uh writers uh author of this
2:06:31
and this is for the department of defense and and for the three letter agencies um i think
2:06:37
that this is um a pretty big deal the community itself i don't think is
2:06:44
is as aware of it as they should be but does that alarm you that this kind
2:06:49
of document is is written and who wrote it and and i'm wondering if the author of this
2:06:56
could possibly you know be out there on social media and engaging things and seeing how
2:07:03
uh stuff is being dealt with and they just want to just close this uap issue down
2:07:09
well classification authority rests with um
2:07:15
a number of different agencies people can different agencies can classify things but the
governing directive is
2:07:21
dod regulation 5200 and that's what you're talking about it uh dictates when
2:07:29
uh something needs to be classified how it's supposed to be classified whether it's going to be
top secret
2:07:36
with the caveats with special access whether or whether they're going to be
2:07:43
secret uh or confidential which is the lowest classification you can get
2:07:49
and then there's of course special categories such as if it if it dealt with nuclear
2:07:55
weapons it would be restricted data and so forth and so on anyways uh
2:08:00
i get you and i do i do think that this is the danger
2:08:06
when the government uh starts thinking that everything
2:08:11
especially anything to do with uaps uh will be classified that's that's
2:08:17
ridiculous number one it's already out there in the public uh the tic-neck videos the the nimitz
2:08:25
incident the roosevelt incident the some of these other incidents
2:08:30
that have been filmed and released that's in the public it's very difficult to come back and say
2:08:36
put the genie back in the bottle yeah right right yeah so yeah it worries me it really
2:08:43
worries me that the government is is collapsing
2:08:48
uh i think because of space command i mean a space force that now they're going to classify
2:08:54
everything um and what do you make of uh
2:09:00
this okay what's going on today in a very small
2:09:05
segment uh i might add of of social media it's not all of ufology
2:09:11
but the ability to get uh ufo researchers that have been at
2:09:18
this game for a long time ufology is decades old it's not twitter old right it's not
2:09:26
social media old um uh but this is something that was very
2:09:31
effective in the in the past was to get uh different researchers with different
2:09:36
ideas and and and different data in fighting right and and that's very effective
2:09:43
right yeah and and uh i see that going on today it's it's it's
2:09:49
it's uh it's it's straight from the playbook isn't it oh absolutely there's there's more harm
2:09:57
done from within the ufo community to themselves than anybody could done the
2:10:03
outside like phil class said at that ufo convention in 2006 you people do more harm
2:10:11
fighting amongst themselves than i could ever do from the outside i mean and and that's true
2:10:16
and it's true it's it i just get a kick out of these ufo conventions and you and i have
2:10:22
been there and we've listened to some of these people uh argue back and forth over something
2:10:28
because of a book or something like that and uh so so yeah it's it's
2:10:35
they do more harm i mean if if the ufo community could unite i mean fully unite
2:10:42
behind a a legitimate disclosure pro
2:10:48
program um i think that would that would that would help
2:10:55
the government seeing this but listening to
2:11:00
even during those hearings um those
2:11:06
congressmen they got their questions from ufo people
2:11:11
and some of the questions you could read those questions where they came from yep
2:11:16
yeah and and and and then now our group is doing the same thing i mean we're forming
2:11:22
questions for the senators to ask and so you know we're probably just as blame much as blame
but we're centering our
2:11:30
questions around really legitimate uh
2:11:35
events that happened and let these people not we're not talking
2:11:41
generalities or philosophies we're talking about actual events
2:11:46
and we want to we want to know about these events we want to know really what happened at
roswell i mean i read about
2:11:53
it i know what happened let's talk about randall sign forest let's you know what let's see what
really happened there
2:12:01
that is still classified i mean the osi report is is still classified top secret
2:12:06
it's not going to be disclosed and and the port the portion that was released
2:12:11
uh you know the 63 pages uh you know 54 were redacted all black you can't read
2:12:18
anything you can't even tell where it happened so we we need to these things happen before
2:12:24
they happened in the past let's let's start disclosure with what happened in the past and then
work up to
2:12:31
the present time that's the legitimate uh method we think the disclosure should
2:12:38
should work now there's another thing that's going on in social media and it's it's it's it's cross-
platforms
2:12:45
it's it's it's all there you are going to the ufo community in
2:12:52
general does not trust anybody involved with the government of
2:12:57
the department of defense because they've been ridiculed for years they have been teased they
have been
2:13:03
lied to and trust is something that is going to come over time it's not going to happen
2:13:08
in a couple of years it's just not going to be there and then when you see what is going on
2:13:15
with the ufo hearings and and these reports and and these claims coming out
2:13:21
of uh you know the navy and the department of defense and and these statements uh that that
2:13:28
washington is now our friend it's not going to happen overnight and and i see this ebb and flow
going on
2:13:36
in in social media and comments from from others that there is no way if
2:13:41
disclosure happens that's fine and we've got to keep the pressure on but but there is nobody
associated with
2:13:48
washington dc that is our friend oh i agree with you 100
2:13:54
jimmy you you're right right you're right and um
2:14:00
what we what can we do what how can we unite the ufo community
2:14:08
we tried i've tried i've spoken conventions uh i've uh
2:14:13
i've befriended a lot of people that really were against me uh i've moved closer
2:14:20
i i interact with people uh you know you and i years ago wouldn't
2:14:27
have been friends we're friends now i love you jimmy i mean you're a great guy we have our
differences we had our
2:14:32
differences in the past but and we can sit down and talk like like men to men
2:14:37
you know hey you know this is what i've done and this is what i admit to there's a lot of things i
did in the
2:14:42
past and i'll admit uh that that wasn't pleasant but i had a job to do i was told to do this
2:14:48
and and so and there's people out there that that are like me that that want the truth out there
2:14:56
and want it presented in a way that is is believable
2:15:01
and the government i don't think they'll they're gonna do it
2:15:08
you know and the government plays like you said earlier they play the ufo
2:15:13
community against each other the gov it's easy to do it's it's a it's a different disinformation
campaign but
2:15:21
it's the easiest disinformation campaign you could ever run because of social media
2:15:27
you can you can plant one particular ufo group against another or one particular person within
2:15:34
the ufo group against another uh it's easy to do and i think the government
2:15:40
when they want to generate some animosity amongst the ufo group that's exactly what they do
2:15:46
well i i noticed something uh probably about six seven years ago
2:15:52
you know before ttsa before the current drama and uh and how funny that ttsa has gone
2:15:59
right with everything uh that happened in 2017 here we are
2:16:05
uh didn't take long uh to have that go away but before all of that
2:16:11
i would hear comments from people going jimmy uh somebody just said
2:16:19
and you know they would say my name i said what what i had nothing you know i'm like wait a
2:16:24
minute and then i would hear it again i'd hear it again and i stepped back rick i swear on all
2:16:31
that is holy i stepped back and went there's games being played
2:16:37
right now there are games being played people saying things you know and that
2:16:43
that i know that i i didn't speak to that person or i didn't say this or i didn't do that
2:16:49
that it was all bs but and it continues right now right
2:16:54
through 2022. and i you know and i i just i just see it and it's not just
2:16:59
with me it's with a a whole variety of people uh where this is this is going
2:17:05
on and you know and i i i know the sources you know it it's very easy to
2:17:11
triangulate uh this stuff back and and all i do is operate with squinty
2:17:17
eyes you know and see how this plays out well there's uh
2:17:23
you know there's a lot of people that don't like me but there's there's a lot of people who don't
like you too jimmy
2:17:29
because uh when when the word got out i was going on your show i got a lot of emails
2:17:35
saying why do you want to go on jimmy's show why do you want to go on fade to black i said i
like jimmy i've you know
2:17:41
i've been fences with him i've been to ufo conventions i've been i mean i
2:17:47
i don't know if we should say we got drunk together but yeah we did we did
2:17:52
but but you know you you i you air it the way it's supposed to be
2:18:00
aired there's other people out there that don't and i think people uh discredit you because
2:18:07
you ask a lot of questions you don't you're not gullible yeah and
2:18:13
and here's the other thing um uh i'm not here to ruffle feathers and i
2:18:18
i i don't um i don't cause trouble it's not in my nature um i'm i'm more about
2:18:26
learning and i and i'm trying to get to you know the end of the road on this thing and that's that's
my goal
2:18:33
um and that frustrates people that and and and and i get it um i can't be
2:18:40
bought right i can't well send me a guitar i'll get you on the show but
2:18:47
but but i'm not a show i am my own person and there are people
2:18:52
out there that are very frustrated uh about that uh they don't get it if uh
2:18:57
rick this is the truth um and i'm not in any way speaking from an
2:19:03
egocentric uh state of mind here if anybody walked a day in my shoes
2:19:10
and saw what i actually did they would have a completely different opinion completely they
thought oh okay
2:19:19
completely different and uh but but they can't and they don't so they write
2:19:27
their own idea of what's really going on and who i am and and because i don't i don't uh run my
2:19:35
mouth and and and say things out in public i'm not posting in social media i'm not
2:19:41
you know what i mean i don't do that so they don't have any ammunition to say anything so they
make it up and uh it's
2:19:49
it's just the way it is and and here's the other thing that really pisses people off i don't give a crap
2:19:57
i don't give a crap i don't see it i don't read it i don't hear it
2:20:03
i don't watch your stuff i don't read your stuff i don't read your i just don't i don't give a crap you
know this
2:20:10
show was just done uh with you and i talking and that's it without any outside influences that's it
2:20:16
that's it it makes people angry oh it does it does it especially
2:20:23
uh knowing you don't really give a [ __ ] about excuse me i dude i don't i don't
2:20:34
i never swear on this show but you know okay all right everybody just freaked out jimmy just
2:20:40
said the bad version of poo poo
2:20:45
well we we got to have a voice out there um and
2:20:50
i like your voice i mean i listen to your show a lot uh and
2:20:56
you know you have good guests uh and some i believe some i don't uh you know and i'm up
front with
2:21:02
somebody if i don't don't believe him and and i like i like to be i like that to be well and then
2:21:09
there's other entities other ways to get get the word out and i think
2:21:15
uh you know i i work at gaia as you will be i don't know if i should say that or
2:21:21
not but but that's this info
2:21:26
that's just info right there you were given misinformation
2:21:32
okay but um uh continue but but you know gaia has a good a
2:21:38
cosmic disclosure with emory smith i've been on there for several years i have like 45
2:21:43
episodes um and some with with somebody else another person
2:21:49
uh i've traveled the world i've been the uk speaking i'm going back to the uk in
2:21:56
october um i'm trying to get the word out i'm trying to get the word out you know i
2:22:02
don't use uh people anymore such as bill moore or
2:22:08
jamie shandira as disinformation people uh
2:22:15
that's that era is over with i try to convince people of that
2:22:21
i'm i'm the legitimate rick doty now i'm i'm not i don't spread this information
2:22:27
uh i couldn't have i couldn't be a gaia i couldn't have worked for the institute for advanced
studies the years that i
2:22:33
worked there if if i was one if i was that bad person uh so
2:22:39
i want to get the word out i want to get disclosure out in the best way we can
2:22:45
i want to get everything that we we've done that we can legitimately talk about within the ufo
community everything that
2:22:52
we've that that we the united states government united states intelligence community has done
from 1947
2:22:59
from the roswell crone incident up until now
2:23:05
how we do this we have to do it in a in a
2:23:11
in a way that uh the the public will become involved with
2:23:17
rather than uh telling the public we should grasp the public's
2:23:24
assistance and and getting this out and i'm doing a good job of it because i you know i used
2:23:30
to get a lot of hate mail but now our emails now i get people who want to want to
2:23:36
help what can we do to get the word out i said you need to
2:23:41
contact your contact your senator or congressman and tell them you want you
2:23:47
want to know about this you have the right as a united states citizen to know what
2:23:53
our government's been doing i wanted to uh before and and by the way
2:23:58
i don't care what you're doing in the morning we're doing overtime uh so and that's gonna come
up here
2:24:04
shortly so uh but anyway um you had mentioned earlier i don't
2:24:09
want i i don't need a lawsuit i don't need names so keep that part
2:24:16
you said that there is um somebody that you have been trying to out that is is active right now
um in in
2:24:24
social media and in the community um is there um you had mentioned on this show it was
2:24:32
probably four or five years ago now that there were a couple of speakers um in in in the ufo
conference circuit
2:24:40
um that that were um agents
2:24:46
that were informants yes is is that going on today i mean is there are there active members
2:24:54
of ufology that may not be who they
2:25:00
say they are oh yeah yeah i'm not going to mention names but
2:25:06
i know of uh three who are um
2:25:13
cooperating i should say uh yeah they're cooperating um
2:25:18
assets for for for the us intelligence service and what's their job
2:25:25
well their their job is to report back uh what what their group what their ufo group
2:25:32
uh the ones i know are with are in mufon and um
2:25:38
uh and i i know who they are i talk to them uh they don't really
2:25:44
well one of them kind of hides it the other two don't really hide it i mean they
2:25:50
they're not saying they work for the united intelligence but what they say is i don't have anything
to hide i'll tell
2:25:56
anyone this i don't have anything to hide and but i know i know
2:26:03
things about them that uh will will say will tell me that they
2:26:08
they work they have a handling agent so to speak they're reporting back
2:26:14
and and that's you know it's it's only common sense that any any uh
2:26:20
group that is that could obtain information
2:26:27
uh relevant to research and technology or ufo activities
2:26:33
uh the government would want to know about it so they're going to penetrate groups
2:26:38
and they're going to have somebody in that group report back to them just like i did with bill
moore i mean i recruited
2:26:43
bill moore he was an apro you know before mewphi was mufon and
2:26:49
that pro apro doesn't exist now he was also in cause and i recruited him to report back to me
2:26:57
everything that was going on within the ufo community regarding ufos and
2:27:02
and he did he was one of my sources and and that hasn't changed today they're
2:27:08
still doing the same thing because i talked and and i think
2:27:13
we sat at the last ufo convention and i think i pointed out to you who the
2:27:19
intelligence officers were in the crowd there were three of them and and so
2:27:25
they still go that u.s intelligence either air force or or or dia or even
2:27:32
cia they go to these conventions now if they thought this was a
2:27:37
a um a non-believable or a a
2:27:42
hoax why would they send uh top line uh
2:27:48
intelligence officers to these ufo conventions well okay but there's there's two ways to look at
this one is
2:27:54
that they're collecting information to see what we know okay there's that but then there's the
other side is they can
2:28:01
be telling stories absolutely exactly exactly you hit it right there jimmy
2:28:08
they're telling stories they're spreading information they're spreading information and what
2:28:15
is that that's the misinformation that's the misinformation of a disinformation
2:28:20
campaign yeah it'll spread around a ufo conference pretty quickly too i've had it happen i've had
i swear
2:28:27
where i've had two or three people come up to me and go so i just heard and i was like yeah i've
heard it now four
2:28:33
times um crazy of uh how effective that is
2:28:40
i mean it's well i i it you could do the same thing in sports you could do the same thing in
2:28:47
in uh a search engine company right whatever you want to just go and and and
2:28:52
get something going you can get it going pretty quickly and it's uh it's very interesting how
2:28:57
um you know the sewing circles you know the little guy you know boom and it and it it
proliferates so
2:29:05
fast um but i'm very curious um i don't know rick hasn't told me so
2:29:11
don't ask and and and things but but i'm very curious who
2:29:16
uh it's one thing to collect information but who is out there uh who's putting it out there into the
2:29:22
ufo community i'm very interested in that i've got some ideas you know but
2:29:28
that part doesn't matter but i can see the this ebb and flow and and it's very easy
2:29:34
to um you know connect the dots right to triangulate to gps this thing
2:29:41
well i think your listeners who are within mufon or or the ufo community
2:29:48
i probably have a a few ideas on on these people and i'm not going to disclose them and it's
their business
2:29:55
uh they're out there doing their their job maybe or uh i'm not going to disclose names but
2:30:01
uh they are there and they always will be somebody within these groups
2:30:07
that are reporting back to u.s intelligence of what the group is doing or what uh
2:30:14
new information they've gotten from new incidents of the avenue both landings or et contacts or
abductions
2:30:21
sure yeah let's uh let's take our break and let's get into overtime and uh we'll
2:30:27
loosen up a little bit and have some fun when we come back because i've got questions
2:30:32
for rick doty and we're gonna do all of that next this is fade to black i'm yours jimmy church
2:30:37
rick doty is here tonight we are discussing miss info dis info in ufology in the ufo community
2:30:45
and we had some info bombs dropped tonight it's been a lot of fun stay right there we'll be right
back after
2:30:51
this short break this is fade to black
2:30:58
[Music]
2:31:08
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you're listening to jimmy church and fade to black on the axe
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it's not a lifestyle we chose we were born this way this is kjcr
2:35:49
jimmychurchradio.com [Music]
2:35:59
wow [Music]
2:36:08
welcome back fade to black going into overtime with rick dodie [Music]
2:36:14
yeah man wow what what a what a show tonight i just uh uh
2:36:22
heart bell art bell bob lazar it's just uh and
2:36:30
just uh mind blown uh tonight hang on
2:36:37
sometimes i just drink too much coffee during the break
2:36:42
over time rick dodie overtime okay now let's loosen up a little bit
2:36:48
and i want to go here serpo
2:36:53
misinformation disinformation government funded campaign what was it
2:36:59
well i'd say yes i wish it's a yes or no question
2:37:06
a little bit of both i guess um
2:37:11
you know that's a story and it's i mean that's a complex story um
2:37:16
if you go back and and look at all the different players involved in this um
2:37:22
victor martinez and and joe yeager and then you know i could name him forever and
2:37:29
and then and then me uh i was feeding information off
2:37:34
or getting information off other people obviously i wasn't around back in those days i was a kid
2:37:41
uh but there's some there's some people with that will swear by it
2:37:48
uh and then there's some people who will say no it's a it was a disinformation campaign
2:37:54
to uh scare the russians uh they we wanted the russians
2:38:02
to think that we had contact with an extraterrestrial race
2:38:08
and that would scare the russians now i think
2:38:13
part of that's true i think i think i think we did let the russians know
2:38:19
but on the other side and there's a lot of things that can be verified
2:38:25
that happened uh and there are people out there unfortunately
2:38:31
they die they're dead but there was one person out there who spoke from the heart about
2:38:37
it happening although there's a controversy about how many people went
2:38:43
whether we're 12 or 3 or 1 i know linda howell spoke
2:38:52
many times about the circle or about what she knew and about the one person
2:38:57
that she had contact with it who had supposedly went and um
2:39:03
and came back so um i think there's a there's a little bit of facts
2:39:09
in a a a bucket that's mostly
2:39:14
uh a counterintelligence operation why would they um
2:39:21
try to mislead excuse me mislead the russians in something like this and and
2:39:27
having the russians believe that we were sending and trading
2:39:33
uh uh uh personnel and uh with uh with a planet called
2:39:39
serpo uh what what i mean what's to gain with the russians
2:39:45
believing a story like that well
2:39:50
there's a number of different facets to that number one
2:39:56
uh if if the russians were to believe that we had contact with an extraterrestrial race
2:40:02
that would mean that the extraterrestrial waste could be providing us with advanced weapons or
2:40:09
advanced research technology and that would scare the russians number
2:40:14
one uh thinking that we had something they did didn't have uh
2:40:21
as far as weapon system goes or even space travel uh
2:40:26
and the the russians back in the in the 60s uh had somewhat of an advantage on
2:40:35
human uh intelligence a human meaning spies
2:40:40
they we had a we had an open society they didn't
2:40:45
it was easy for them to keep track of their people it was not
2:40:50
easy for us to keep track of our people and i know in in an intelligence operations course we
2:40:57
learn history and one of the things we learned was that
2:41:03
from the 50s on through the 60s uh
2:41:08
the soviets were had an easy job of keeping track of our spies
2:41:17
and we had a difficult track a difficult job of keeping track of
2:41:22
their spice so i think that all played into this thing that
2:41:28
hey we got something that you don't have
2:41:33
and i i think that's that's that's part of the the operation uh although i don't know for a fact
2:41:40
i know circle means something uh to us intelligence the word circle
2:41:46
it's uh something to do with uh special extraterrestrial
2:41:51
uh planet or something there's an actual meaning of circle
2:41:57
which would just came out here a little while ago somebody uh brought it to my attention
2:42:02
that i didn't know about so um so you're suggesting it would be
2:42:08
possible to foia serpo documents hmm
2:42:13
i you know people have tried uh i know there is one document that dia released
2:42:20
uh to uh bill ryan who he was one of the
2:42:26
uh administrators administrator uh that that had
2:42:33
information about circle but it was heavily redacted um
2:42:38
actually it was not about circle without about project crystal knight
2:42:43
because that was the the project but i remember having to do with uh circle the the document
2:42:51
pertained to crystal night and it was a space program uh
2:42:57
a being run by uh the national security agency
2:43:03
and uh but the document was really heavily redacted so you couldn't
2:43:08
really make a whole lot out of it so uh that's the only thing that i can remember anybody getting
2:43:15
uh from the circle story with bill ryan's uh and he showed that to me uh so to other
2:43:22
people and wanted to know if i could you know maybe read between the lines but it was too
heavily redacted i just don't
2:43:29
know what it was about now uh uh i i mentioned at the beginning
2:43:36
of the show project blue book being uh a bona fide disinformation
2:43:42
misinformation campaign i think history is going to you know just continue uh down that path
with it
2:43:50
um for you is that some of the best evidence of of the air force uh running misdirection directly
with
2:43:58
the american public when it came to ufos oh yeah i think uh um i think initially
2:44:07
it was a program the reason that they changed uh you know changed names grudge
2:44:14
uh eventually to blue book was that there was different administrators
2:44:20
with just different objectives and i know my uncle edward doty was
2:44:27
involved with the project blue book he was an investigator and
2:44:32
he told me stories about why they changed the name uh and and the differences between
2:44:40
an open investigation of something that they can could readily identify as being uh
2:44:50
an answer to the to to a question of what was that in the sky
2:44:56
uh to the more more mysterious cases which they couldn't answer didn't have an
2:45:01
answer to and how they classified it and so as you as you said it's a form of of a
2:45:09
disinformation campaign because not not one single
2:45:15
case not one single case uh that the government talked about
2:45:22
was identified as a as a legitimate extraterrestrial craft or extraterrestrial contact
2:45:30
those cases were classified they were classified top secret and they went on to somebody else
to
2:45:37
investigate the field the field investigators only investigated uh cases of
2:45:44
of known uh astronomical objects and and let's face it most of
2:45:50
what the people were seeing could be easily identified as a plane uh as as a research and
2:45:57
development plane or as as the venus uh the planet venus
2:46:04
or or or other things um and so but the ones that couldn't be
2:46:12
they're the ones that that the government's not going to come out public and say listen
2:46:18
i got all these cases here these 700 cases 701 701 cases
2:46:26
that we can't identify and every indication is that they're extraterrestrial in nature
2:46:33
they're not going to say that although that's what they're saying privately or in the classified
documents that's
2:46:39
exactly what they're saying but they're not going to release that stuff okay and uh
2:46:46
i i think that i think that we all understand that but
2:46:51
my point um and thank you for that but my point to the audience when we talk about
2:46:57
misinformation or disinformation i have these are direct i mean these are things that you can go
2:47:03
and research and follow up on your own um and and blue book and and serpo
2:47:09
certainly the the internet version of serpo and martinez and what was going on and all
2:47:14
of the players i don't want to get into the list of names and the aviary and all of that but it was it
was a
2:47:22
very concentrated comprehensive campaign that was in play it wasn't real
2:47:29
and uh elements of it possibly being real but it was misinformation it was
2:47:35
disinformation direct right to the public on the internet and and i was i was in the middle of it rick
2:47:42
i was right there man i was reading those updates every single day i couldn't wait for you to give
some more
2:47:47
information to martinez okay okay so um you know what i wish
2:47:55
i wish i had the mind to do that right now i know i'd be a millionaire now i'd be
2:48:01
writing science fiction books whoever wrote that stuff that's right now you just hit the nail on the
head it
2:48:07
was some of the best science fiction ever some very creative writers uh were
2:48:12
behind that for sure um and cody rick doty being one um
2:48:19
so let's talk about mj 12. um again uh
2:48:26
in your opinion i i've already stated mine misinformation disinformation campaign
2:48:32
out of washington dc yeah that those documents were created were
2:48:39
created at the special means committee within the dia now
2:48:45
um some of the information is legitimate i mean you can you could
2:48:50
verify names and dates and places and you can you can find out who was where and
2:48:57
and things sure but but the majority of it was a was a uh
2:49:02
disinformation i i would say um now there are other people out there uh
2:49:08
that will say no but i i think that part of that wasn't a disinformation
2:49:15
campaign uh to um belittle the ufo community the people
2:49:21
that got it uh but okay okay you gotta understand who got it
2:49:29
let's go right there that envelope
2:49:34
with the the original film roll right that was sent to jamie chanda ray here
2:49:40
in burbank um you were involved
2:49:45
at that time with william moore correct with bill moore did you know that that envelope was
2:49:53
put in the mail no absolutely not no bill moore
2:49:59
contacted me and said jamie got
2:50:04
a canister a film canister that he had developed because he was the photographer he had his
own
2:50:11
uh uh development studio and he said and and it contained a classified document
2:50:17
i said what are you talking about bill and he said no no no no tell me i i know it so i said well let
me let me go check
2:50:24
and find out that's my name did you go and check well i went into to
2:50:29
the intelligence community and i said anybody you know anybody send
2:50:35
jamie shandira some kind of film canister is this part of an operation or
2:50:40
what and nobody that within the our my circle said yes
2:50:49
they said i don't know we don't know it could have happened up in in headquarters
2:50:54
but it didn't happen down in the field so i said no bill i don't know what you're talking about and i
said it's
2:51:00
probably you know jamie jamie had jamie xander exaggerated
2:51:06
so much stuff i mean i could tell you stories about jamie that is just ridiculous but anyways i said
well let
2:51:13
me fly out there and find out so i go out there well jamie the jamie didn't want to show it to me
2:51:19
you're talking about you flew to los angeles yeah yeah flew to uh uh i flew
2:51:24
to uh burbank uh john wayne airport uh okay uh
2:51:30
costa mesa i guess of course mesa right yeah uh anyways uh
2:51:35
i went there and i we drove to uh jamie's place uh
2:51:40
and uh jamie said well i'm not really sure if i should show it to you because i got it i said well
jamie if you want
2:51:47
me to verify what this is and then i started thinking that jamie's
2:51:53
just bullshitting us and so finally jamie you know went in and he had it in a secret place he
2:52:00
brings it out shows it to me and i look at it i said wow
2:52:05
this is something else i i said i don't know if it's real or not i mean i know some of it sounds
legitimate but
2:52:13
i don't know all of it if all of it is i said why don't you let me take it
2:52:18
no no no no no no no you can't take it i said you know what jamie i'm still a federal agent i could
2:52:25
seize this from you because it's classified as top secret on it i said you don't have the right to
2:52:32
know it jamie he said okay okay okay okay you can take it but let me make a copy i
2:52:38
said no you're not gonna make any copies of it so i take it
2:52:43
i get go i go back to to uh kirtland
2:52:48
uh i i make a copy i because it was top secret i
2:52:55
curried it every all top secret documents back in those days had to be transmitted by the armed
forces courier
2:53:01
service so you know i scheduled that they come and get it you know handcuff on wrist and a
2:53:07
briefcase and one of those things and they took it up there well about four or five days later
2:53:14
uh a colonel called me and said uh why did you send this up to back to us i
2:53:21
said well i got it so that was the source bingo
2:53:28
right the pentagon i said yeah it was it was this oh it's called a special
2:53:34
uh uh yeah it's a no it's in dia okay special means committee
2:53:42
special means committee now the special means committee i knew
2:53:48
they created bogus documents most of them went to soviet union and chinese
2:53:53
intelligence operations and i said they said why did you send it back i said because
2:53:59
i got it from a guy in california who somebody mailed it to him
2:54:04
he said leave it at that mr dodie just leave it at that i said
2:54:10
you want me to do that okay okay okay okay how do so
2:54:16
uh you you return jamie did make copies jamie chanda ray everybody's a producer
2:54:22
um uh uh back in here in hollywood back in the day and he worked with bill
2:54:29
moore um and so that's who jamie chandareye is so he didn't make any copies you took the
2:54:35
originals of that but what about the film role so jamie still had that right
2:54:42
that the i took everything i took oh you took everything okay so you returned that to jamie and i
took i did exactly
2:54:48
what i was told to do i took it all the way back uh i actually what i did
2:54:54
was i met i met jamie and bill in prescott arizona
2:55:01
and i get i turned everything over them i said you know jamie i guess you're supposed to have
this
2:55:07
and then jamie mentioned a person who was another agent
2:55:13
uh but in california out of norton air force base which is a riverside area
2:55:19
and i said oh you know him his first name is steve
2:55:25
and jamie says yes i'm working with steve i said okay i'm out of it
2:55:30
and that's the chain of events now it went a long ways after that because
2:55:36
bill moore got a hold of it and then bill tried to verify it and then
2:55:42
uh stan friedman gets involved friedman yeah it was stan friedman um i was at a uh
2:55:51
i can't remember what i was doing anyways we were i was in uh houston
2:55:57
texas and stan friedman was there and he was talking to some somebody i
2:56:02
can't remember he had an interview with somebody oh uh no not not houston austin uh he had
an
2:56:08
interview with bobby inman and uh for intelligence uh he was dia at
2:56:14
the time and uh gene uh stan had a copy of it
2:56:20
stan says i want to show you something you go about go back to his hotel room
2:56:26
he had it in a sealed area and he pulls it out he said did you ever see this i said
2:56:33
matter of fact i have so anyways and it went around from there
2:56:40
it's uh uh it's a difficult thing uh for the ufo community there are so many smart people
2:56:47
and and so many researchers that analyzed every single not only word
2:56:54
letter down to the letter uh typefaces uh the
2:56:59
the way documents were uh prepared um how addresses were done how things
2:57:06
were signed um and you have to do that kind of analysis and i think that the overarching
2:57:13
including my own eyeballs on on this stuff was that this stuff is really good
2:57:19
so there was somebody that was you know that a team
2:57:24
that was really good at at creating authentic documents you have to have the a period typewriter
right you have to
2:57:31
have you're not doing this in in uh well back then it was done before
2:57:37
computers were creating uh documents so you had to sit and type this stuff out
2:57:43
page for page um and have it correct and then you have to have the data inside of it
2:57:49
if somebody is writing something on on a specific date and their name is on it uh
2:57:55
from this address you have to make sure that that person was in that city at that time right and
2:58:01
and for the most part everything lined up in the mj 12 documents when you were
2:58:06
vetting specific things that you could vet you can't you can't vet e.t
2:58:13
but you can vet the person their title and where they were working
2:58:18
at that time and it was it was it all lined up well that's because it was a legitimate
2:58:24
government document created by the government but that's the document
2:58:31
now you have to talk about the information contained in the document
2:58:37
now is all that real did all that happen uh that's that's the question the
2:58:43
document itself is legitimate because the government created it right but they created it for a
reason
2:58:49
i mean i know people out there say no it's you know this isn't right and this isn't right well
2:58:57
they they just shot themselves in the foot they showed their ignorance because it is a
government document they created
2:59:04
a document and they created it for a reason now is it disinformation i didn't create the
2:59:11
document i don't know the reason i don't know what they were trying to do with jamie i mean but
if you know the
2:59:18
background of jamie you know jamie uh goes way back i mean jamie was
2:59:23
involved with uh the navy navy intelligence uh he did
2:59:29
he was a source on on some things for navy navy intelligence and he
2:59:35
he created some things and he did some things that navy intelligence told him to do
2:59:41
uh and he you know and then he went off the deep end
2:59:46
and you know claiming that the navy seals abducted him and all this stuff
2:59:52
yeah yeah yeah some things really got uh pretty stretched out there yeah and
2:59:57
we're i i've got 30 seconds left so i will take this time to say
3:00:03
amazing conversation tonight rick amazing and uh thank you so much for
3:00:08
taking the time uh from uh the secret location of the red roof inn
3:00:13
somewhere in the mojave desert thank you very much rick and uh we'll talk about
3:00:18
the week uh behave and be well and thank you thank you thank you jamie i always
3:00:24
always enjoy being on your show you're the best thank you so much rick