Tramp Simplified H3PO3 Extraction Method

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General & Pharmacological Chemistry
Inorganic Chemistry
Simplified H3PO3 extraction method
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tramp Posted On: Jun 17 2006 At: 04:09:30 AM
Harvest Dreamer
same idea as everyone else, but with all the cautionary deadwood removed. This is just the same thing stripped down to the
Member #: 169 essentials. It works faster and makes a more anhydrous product than the more cautious methods presented so far...
Topics started: 33
Posts: 925
City:
mix the source solution 50/50 with concentrated HCl.
State: place in vision ware.
Country: Peru boil at high heat until it has reduced about 15% in volume.
remove from heat and put in freezer.
collect KCl crystals with buchner funnel.
return filtered liquid to heat.
boil until about 25% is gone.
repeat freezing, filtering.
keep doing this until it becomes super thick. it will have only about 5% to 10% or so if its original volume at this point.
flood it with anhydrous alcohol. any alcohol. IPA works as does MeOH.
just like acetone crashing meth or pseudo, when the alcohol hits this solution, the last of the KCl will crash.
freeze, filter.
boil it until all the alcohol is gone. one can tell when its ready because it quits fizzing (alcohol), it ceases to smell of either
alcohol or HCl and it gets dangerously thick (constant stirring at this point to avoid bumps and dangerous splatters.)
when it is ready, it smells like phosphorus. Unmistakable scent.
it will be yellow colored liquid but when frozen, it turns pure white. it looks for all the world like white phosphorus sticks if one
molds it in thin HDPE containers.
this is basically the same as the other posts on the topic, but it is easier.
No need to dilute the HCl... this does nothing but introduce still more water that one has to boil away eventually... no need to
carefully evaporate it just shy of the boiling point. (this takes endless hours) no, it works just as well to boil the fuck out of it
on a gas range set on high. And much, much faster. The water limits the temp of the solution and poison gas warnings are
overstated much. The alcohol at the end dries it better than heat alone.
material produced this way was observed to fire with I2/H20 at 86 deg C. This is lower than the expected 87 degrees,
probably error in the thermometer as it has not been calibrated.
it only took 2 hours to produce a very sizable amount of very, very dry PA by this method.
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pepsi Posted On: Jun 17 2006 At: 04:15:16 AM | Reply Link
Newbee Dreamer
how much did swim produce from how much starting material?
Member #: 3035
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tramp Posted On: Jun 17 2006 At: 04:24:27 AM | Reply Link
Harvest Dreamer
swim got 90% of the available PA.
Member #: 169
Topics started: 33 tramp's sig
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State:
Country: Peru

victimlovingit Posted On: Jun 17 2006 At: 08:18:22 AM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
SWIM say's he like the style of this writeup. Looks short but doesn't seem to be missing anything. Just one question.
Member #: 1922
Topics started: 18 Where's the pics to go with it ?
Posts: 325
City:
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Country: Canada [ Edited by: victimlovingit on Jun 17 2006 08:19:14 AM ]
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beaker Posted On: Jun 17 2006 At: 08:49:29 AM | Reply Link
Dreamer
I'm a little lost. Is this a hypo writeup or phosporus acid? What's the source solution?
Member #: 3172
Topics started: 4
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[ Edited by: beaker on Jun 20 2006 2:29:28 PM ]
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bjohn Posted On: Jun 17 2006 At: 08:53:16 AM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
so excess of heat as well as the addition of the alcohol does not oxidize the pa swim is after in to
Member #: 1792 h3po4?
Topics started: 19
Posts: 511
City: swim agrees that the h2o stabilizes the temp. and was under the impression that he could heat it
State:
Country: Benin
up more becuse if h2o is present then 100c will not be breached. but swim was not certain of this
100c rule.
how many times does swiu usually have to filter off the k salts b4 there isn't any present when
removing from freezer?
thanks for the post swiu just saved swim many hours?
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1phen2prope Posted On: Jun 18 2006 At: 10:59:48 AM | Reply Link
Newbee Dreamer
hey switramp, its your old buddy swi1phen. swi1phen understands your method of extracting h3po3 but doesnt necessarily see
how it differs from swi1phens. The alcohol part you use swi1phen believes will oxidize too much h3po3. That is why swim didnt
Member #: 3151
Topics started: 0
use it in his writeup. other than that, good job bro
Posts: 24
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i'm back

white mistress Posted On: Jun 18 2006 At: 12:47:24 PM | Reply Link
Harvest Dreamer
is this how to usde powdered phosphorous acid? with hcl added
Member #: 1568
Topics started: 139 white mistress's sig
Posts: 851 We all hold the power to make the world a better place,so lets not waste it on petty squabbles and hatered of our brothers`n`sisters,when we can use
City: that power for the higher good and to enhance the human race.
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Country: United
Kingdom
Dreamer
I think its a way to make and dry phosphorus acid but I can't seem to get included into this conversation.
Member #: 3172
Topics started: 4 *is the source solution phosphoric acid?
Posts: 58
City:
State:
[ Edited by: beaker on Jun 19 2006 02:18:34 AM ]
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bjohn Posted On: Jun 19 2006 At: 03:31:30 AM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
not phosphoric h3po4, but phosphor"ous" acid h3po3. phosphoric is the result of oxidizing
Member #: 1792 phosphorous. for dreaming h3po3 is prefered and is what this thread is addressing.
Topics started: 19
Posts: 511
Peace, swibj
City:
State: bjohn's sig
Country: Benin

Dreamer
So, this is about drying a solution of phosphorus acid to granules, and not about making it from something? The first post
Member #: 3172
mentions a "source solution", but I am unclear on what that is.
Topics started: 4
Posts: 58 beaker's sig
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khem1 Posted On: Jun 19 2006 At: 5:13:07 PM | Reply Link
Newbee Dreamer
Swibeaker, this should help. http://www.wetdreams.ws/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1067
Member #: 1766
Topics started: 2
Posts: 6 [ Edited by: khem1 on Jun 19 2006 5:26:13 PM ]
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Dreamer
Thanks khem1!
Member #: 3172
Topics started: 4 Has anyone tried distilling this to dryness under reduced pressure (water aspirator)? It just seems that acid fumes not only
Posts: 58 burn but fuck up any metal nearby.
City:
State:
[ Edited by: beaker on Jun 20 2006 05:47:20 AM ]
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tramp Posted On: Jun 21 2006 At: 11:11:00 PM | Reply Link
Harvest Dreamer
1phen! swim had feared you were dead! no, it does not differ much at all... nor des it differ from the Hive posting on the
Member #: 169 matter... yours and the Hive posting advised against high heat and the Hive post uses alcohol in a slightly different manner.
Topics started: 33
Posts: 925
City:
i do not understand alcohol oxidizing an acid. none of that entire line of reasoning ever made sense to me but there was
State: considerable discussion of the matter on the Hive and admitably, my knowledge of phosphorus inorganic chemistry is rather
Country: Peru limited. But, I would expect the acid to reduce the alcohol, not be oxidized by it. Perhaps those with a more complete
understanding of this can explain it?
this thread concerns H3PO3. This compound is called phosphorus acid. Swim was confused for a long time about the names of
these acids. Phosphorus acid and hypophosphorus acid are not the same chemicals. Neither is phosphoric acid the same as
phosphorus acid.
the source solution mentioned is an OTC agricultural product. this was not intended to be a complete recipe, only a refinement
to existing techniques. Those who wish to use this material are strongly adivsed to study the Hive postings and 1phen's write
up here. 1phen's is much more complete and easy to follow...
yes, swim has dried his PA in a vacuum dessicator. However, he found the addition of alcohol to be much easier and more
effective.
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1phen2prope Posted On: Jun 22 2006 At: 01:08:06 AM | Reply Link
Newbee Dreamer
well put.
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Topics started: 0
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City: no not dead yet, but on the darker side of life one could say.
State:
Good to see you again you old scoundral!
[ Edited by: 1phen2prope on Jun 22 2006 01:09:47 AM ]
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Dreamer
No, I mean using a distillation setup, hooking it up to a water aspirator, and boiling it off at around 5060C.
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Topics started: 4 beaker's sig
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tramp Posted On: Jul 03 2006 At: 7:34:12 PM | Reply Link
Harvest Dreamer
clearly, that would work even better... advanced techniques using complex glassware do tend to produce better results than a
Member #: 169 quick boil down in an open visionware on a camp stove... but swim is suspicious of the cook who has no roots in the ghetto...
Topics started: 33 he thinks it impossible to make the best without the feel one gains from creating profound quality from unlikely sources... swim
Posts: 925
City:
is a fair chemist and has lots of cool glass... but he will always bee a tweaker and he cant give up his visionware... this
State: process is severe thoughtcrime where swim finds himself and breaking out the full lab with vacuum pump is often hazardous to
Country: Peru swim's freedom... this technique is hard core slealthy and fast and while not as rigourous as the more advanced techniques,
they do have the advantage of disappearing quite quickly and completely... study swi1phen's photos for examples of this sort
of stealth in action... more and more swim comes to appriciate that level of stealth...
swim recently used identically the process outlined here... visionware on a third hand electric hotplate in somebody's backroom
on the floor...
it made one hit shit.
swim shits you not.
two puffs and away you went to the shower.
not just swim. all his friends too.
it was the AcidSledgeHammer.
[ Edited by: tramp on Jul 03 2006 7:42:34 PM ]
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ralphie Posted On: Jul 06 2006 At: 7:22:59 PM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
Was there any definitive word on the oxidation of PA by anhydrous alcohol or excesive heating?
Member #: 2605
Topics started: 11 Is there a decomposition temp for PA that WDreamers should be aware of?
Posts: 305
City:
State:
Also...is there any way to figure out how much of the PA became oxidized?
Crashing out the KCL with alcohol sounds like a pretty good idea...
Also...two thumbs up if you're nervous about having this shit sent to your house!
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bjohn Posted On: Jul 06 2006 At: 9:58:26 PM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
180C is the temp. at which PA loses composure. Swim thinks this is not a desired outcome because it releases phosphine gas,
Member #: 1792
and from what swims heard this is not a good thing, and quite possibly a deadly thing. Not positive about the mortality
Topics started: 19 possibility, but that was enough for swim to make sure that he never will cross that 180C mark.
Posts: 511
City:
State:
His first dream about extracting PA swim can recall an experience that scared the shizzle out of him. In the dream he set the
Country: Benin temp.alarm on his digi thermometer on 180F instead of Celcius. Went to take a leak and heard the alarm go off from where he
stood in the can. His heart jumped and swim damn near pissed all over himself trying to evacuate and cut the main power.
Anyhoo it was not a pleasent scare at the time. So please Bee safe.
Peace, swibj
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Harvest Dreamer
its not that dangerous. not at all. swim has pushed hard on this process trying to streamline it and make it more efficent... in
Member #: 169 the process he has disregarded many of the concerns posted on the hive about heat, oxidation, and such. He has found the
Topics started: 33 concerns posted there to be mostly acedemic in nature with little bearing on physical reality. It seems one of those cases
Posts: 925
City:
where threory sounds good but doesnt pan out in the lab with real chemicals. The reducing agent made by these streamlined
State: processes is of sufficent quality to make ma so strong one hesitates to offer it to people... no phosgene gas has ever been
Country: Peru detected while swim has experimented with the stuff...
the solution appears much more resiliant to damage than originally thought.
the stuff is not suspicious to order unless you are up to no good. as an agricultural product, swim has found it exceedingly
effective against certain fungal infections resistant to all other treatments. It is an outstanding product that swim would
recommend without hesitation for its legitimate purpose.
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ralphie Posted On: Jul 08 2006 At: 9:46:56 PM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
Fair 'nuff swiTramp!
Member #: 2605
Topics started: 11 Edit:Not tryin' to threadjack yo thread, but would you mind sharing your times/temps/ratios for the PA redux?
Posts: 305
City:
State:
Swir was wondering if swiyou followed suit with swi1phen, and overcompensated the amt. of PA based on the the source
(namely...extracted from soln, exposed to potentially damaging temp, thought to be oxidized by the alcohol).
Just curious!
Edit:Say hello to the elves swiTramp! Miss those little buggers...
[ Edited by: ralphie on Jul 14 2006 11:33:55 PM ]
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Inorganic Chemistry
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tramp Posted On: Jul 09 2006 At: 12:54:00 AM | Reply Link
Harvest Dreamer
i have no times/temps/ratios... its all the same as 1phens but with caution seemingly thrown to the wind... this is one of those
Member #: 169 methods that works better by feel than by numbers...
Topics started: 33
Posts: 925
City: tramp's sig
State: We seek infinite addiction potential... if you can put it down, its not strong enough!
Country: Peru

1phen2prop Posted On: Jul 10 2006 At: 8:26:57 PM | Reply Link
spunnn
:) hey tramp swi1phen is back for the moment to say hello, how are ya man?
Member #: 645
Topics started: 86 Anyways, anyone asking times/temps shit like that, just read my posts and switramps posts on the subject, the beauty of
Posts: 912 both our methods is that they do not rely on such close and precise measurements.
City:
State:
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Harvest Dreamer
utfse for ratios. swim says the ratios should be carefully measured but this seems a pretty resiliant synth.
Member #: 169
Topics started: 33 this is nothing more than an extraction... not an A/B but still an extraction... extractions tend to not be exact science...
Posts: 925
City:
modeling them mathematically is borderline impossible... many, many variables and like all differential equations, small changes
State: in individual variables can have unexpected results once the equation is solved. Most processes such as this, however, are
Country: Peru described by equations with no solutions that can be found by analytic means. The functions are typically solved by numeric
(computational) means. So lacking any useful mathematical framework to guide us, we do the extractions empirically... we
base our descisions as to how much of what to use on past experience, either our own or published data.
the amounts of chemicals can be roughly computed for the acid extraction... see the Hive posting on this topic for an
example... this extraction is many orders of magnitude more simple than an A/B but it is still considerably more complex than
can be described with a simple set of equations. The calculations the Hive author performed simply pointed the way for the
author of that post as it was the first time anyone had done it. As more and more of us are discussing this extraction, it is
becoming appearant that it is exceedingly forgiving and that nature provides a very wide window of success.
just get somewhere in the ballpark and it will work.
swim never believed any of the stuff about the PA oxidizing in the presence of alcohol to begin with swim thinks if anything,
the alcohol is going to be reduced by the PA, not vice versa.
he thinks that if thermodynamic model of the process could be laid out, one would find a far greater likelihood of the acid
reducing the alcohol to an alkane than the alcohol oxidizing the PA...
swim has been smoking DMT tonight... all this theory makes him want another hit.
[ Edited by: tramp on Jul 14 2006 12:11:23 AM ]
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bob Posted On: Jul 15 2006 At: 02:18:32 AM | Reply Link
Day Dreamer
When you say to reduce the volume to 5 or 10% of it's original
Member #: 656
are you refering to the original volume of the foliar solution
Topics started: 6 or the foliar + the muriatic?
Posts: 106 Thanks
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tramp Posted On: Jul 15 2006 At: 03:26:06 AM | Reply Link
Harvest Dreamer
foliar + the muriatic
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Topics started: 33 tramp's sig
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Country: Peru

bob Posted On: Jul 15 2006 At: 1:08:55 PM | Reply Link
Day Dreamer
If I've got my thinking cap on right, when you get down
Member #: 656
to 10.9% of the foliar + muriatic, it will need to be
Topics started: 6 pure H3PO3 to obtain 90%. This is a good proceedure but
Posts: 106 with this one or others I only get 35% 40%. When I'm
City:
State:
down to 10% or even 5% it's still too thin.
Here's my figures at obtaining this. If I'm off let me know
H3PO3 density or S.G. = 1.65 gram/Cm3 or Ml
concentration of H3PO3 in foliar (all that SWIB's seen in
the last 3 years were the same) = 3.35 lbs/gallon or
1520.9 grams/ 3785 Ml or
1 gram/2.5 Ml
Example: 50 Ml foliar containing (50/2.5) 20 grams H3PO3
50 Ml Muriatic
100 Ml total
volume of 20 grams H3PO3 = 20/1.65 = 12.1 Ml
volume of 90% = 10.9 Ml

bjohn Posted On: Jul 16 2006 At: 06:34:48 AM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
swiBob what does swiu mean by this
Member #: 1792
Topics started: 19 Quote:
Posts: 511
City: This is a good proceedure but
State: with this one or others I only get 35% 40%. When I'm
Country: Benin
down to 10% or even 5% it's still too thin.
Pardon my lack of intelligence as swIm is still a beginner in clandestine dreaming, but is learning very rapidly(mostly by hitting
his head against every thing espeacially walls).
When swiu makes reference to thin is this in regard to physical texture or in regard to not a high enough concentration to be
90% pure h3po3? Or is swim totally off ?
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bob Posted On: Jul 16 2006 At: 08:27:52 AM | Reply Link
Day Dreamer
bjohn
Member #: 656
The 35% to 40% SWIB refered to was yield of H3PO3 from
Topics started: 6 what was available in the foliar solution.
Posts: 106 The 5% to 10% was refering back to SWIT's first post in
City:
State:
this thread where he said to reduce the volune of the foliar
mixed with muriatic acid to 5% to 10% of it's original
volume.
Thin is refering to viscosity
The 90% SWIT mentioned was yield not purity

ahgreich Posted On: Jul 18 2006 At: 2:50:12 PM | Reply Link
Newbee Dreamer
so, using the 50/50 ratio of solution to muriatic, was a lot of stinky hcl liberated during the concentrations?
Member #: 3100
Topics started: 3
Posts: 9
City:

State:
Harvest Dreamer
no, actually not. There is a small release toward the end... appearantly this is what occurs when all of the potassium has been
Member #: 169 salted out. Oddly, swim noticed a considerably greater reek when using diluted HCl than with concentrated acid.
Topics started: 33
Posts: 925
City:
this is a very, very simple extraction once one sits down and thinks about what is really going on. swim's focus with this
State: material has been on quality and time efficency rather than quantity (yeild), as the solution is very inexpensive and easy to
Country: Peru get. This is by no means meant to imply that swim is wasteful of the stuff, only that his main concern has been quality and
not quantity. That being said, using the process outlined, swim recently recovered 31.25 grams of PA from an available 35
grams...
[ Edited by: tramp on Jul 18 2006 3:24:24 PM ]
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s0und Posted On: Aug 08 2006 At: 07:32:37 AM | Reply Link
Newbee Dreamer
swim lives in the EU
swim reports no success in
Member #: 1779
Topics started: 2
084 & 01314 products.
Posts: 11 theyre advertised as fertilizer.
City: the blue product get yellow
State:
on HCl addition, salts out,
vaporizes excess HCl but wont freeze
theres just one source of foliar
but its only if ure up to 20L.
any help from an EU bee?

tramp Posted On: Aug 08 2006 At: 7:12:53 PM | Reply Link
Harvest Dreamer
what exactly is the composition of the material swiyou is using? the numbers 084 & 01314 are useless to us as they only
Member #: 169 describe what is available to the plants they are intended to be used on... merely because it has a high phosphorus content
Topics started: 33 doesn't mean it contains the needed salts of phosphorus acid.
Posts: 925
City:
State: the material swiyou extracts remains liquid? what happens when you test fire it with elemental iodine? does it do anything at
Country: Peru all?
see if swiyou can find the exact chemical makeup of the stuff... this might shed some light on what is going wrong...
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HeaT Posted On: Aug 08 2006 At: 10:04:50 PM | Reply Link
Day Dreamer
I think the 083 numbers refer to the ammonium/potassium/phosphorous levels in fertilizer. or something like that... they
Member #: 1378
measure mass of elements that plants need
Topics started: 11
Posts: 109 HeaT's sig
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HeaT
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Gluebom69 Posted On: Aug 09 2006 At: 04:52:17 AM | Reply Link
Sticky Situations: (maker
of..)
Quote:
Member #: 57 Originally posted by HeaT
Topics started: 46
Posts: 2109
I think the 083 numbers refer to the ammonium/potassium/phosphorous levels in fertilizer. or something like
City:
State: that... they measure mass of elements that plants need
Country: Czech
Republic
Those numbers are what farmers call NPK, numbers. They are nitrogen/phosphorous/potassium, respectfully. As HeaT said they
refer to levels of each respective element in the fertilizer.
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bjohn Posted On: Aug 09 2006 At: 07:35:26 AM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
Swim thinks that swiHeat is probably mistaking PO4 for PO3.
Member #: 1792
Topics started: 19 bjohn's sig
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Country: Benin

s0und Posted On: Aug 09 2006 At: 5:36:04 PM | Reply Link
Newbee Dreamer
i have noted that all products
containing "mono anddi potassium salts of
Member #: 1779
Topics started: 2
phosphorous acid as the only active ingredient"
Posts: 11 are described being of blue color.
City: thats a good reason to question my
State:
luck on the steps i ve done so far:
i have successfully salted out the KCl,
working with different temp/time settings;
salting out with excess HCl @50°C seemed to
work best but increased the duration of the
process to 23 days constantly evapping HCl
which is pretty corrosive.
Problem might be escaping H2PO3 due to air
exposure with longer salting out times.
Dont have access to a PC library but could
somebody lookup vapor pressure of PO3 plz?!
also, did anybody think of seperating the
H2PO3 from the KxPO3 by chromatography after
salting out analogue to the hypo text @Rh?
dont have much practise but looks promising.

Harvest Dreamer
if this solution is giving you that kind of trouble, it isn't the right stuff... the process is super, super easy and almost fool proof.
Member #: 169
Topics started: 33 you cant assume it is H3PO3 by the color.
Posts: 925
City:
State: does it say, "mono" or "dipotasium salts of phosphorus acid" on the bottle? does it say how many grams/liter equivilance (or
Country: Peru pounds/gallon in America) of phosphorus acid it contains?
this does not take days. it takes only a couple of hours to make 40 grams of the acid.
what do you mean it wont solidify? have you tried cryogenic cooling? surely it must freeze at some temperature? have you
tried boiling it still further? it has to be a really thick syrup.
will it make HI when heated with iodine? even if dilute, it will go off if you get it hot enough. this will tell you if its the right
acid.
if you are having to resort ot a chromatography column, you dont have the right material. The material in question is a simple
aqueous solution of potasium salts of H3PO3. Like sea water is an aqeous solution of sodium salts of chlorine. (NaCl) The HCl in
the extraction displaces the potassium on the salt... the potasium links to the chlorine donated by the HCl. There is no H2PO3
present. I dont know the electron configuration of a potassium salt of H3PO3 off hand to show you the proper balanced
equation but in its crudest representation, it looks something like this...
K3PO3 + 3HCl > 3KCl + H3PO3
i dont think this is quite proper, however... i can't quite figure out the "mono" and "di" potassium part. KPO3 and K2PO3 do not
appear viable compounds to me. But phosphorus has strange chemistry and I'm over looking something somewhere...
regardless... the equation shown is the basic idea...
[ Edited by: tramp on Aug 09 2006 11:18:01 PM ]
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s0und Posted On: Aug 10 2006 At: 10:19:43 AM | Reply Link
Newbee Dreamer
SWIM need to add that SWIM lives in a country
in that all potassium salts of phosphorous acid
Member #: 1779
Topics started: 2
are not sold with a label naming them.
Posts: 11 SWIM doesnt know for how long that is but read
City: that in a native newspaper article.
State:
ingredients for agriculture would only be given
in the NPK values.
Theres a broad range of products but most became
unavailable.
further calculations showed that 084 could well
refer to the weight of the mono potassium form
aswell as 01314 could refer to the dipotassium form.
despite thatSWIM agrees to u and will shop around...

Harvest Dreamer
look at this!!!
Member #: 169
Topics started: 33
Posts: 925
City:
State:
Country: Peru
about 14 grams of H3PO3... final drying with 99% IPA at a hard boil. Poured hot onto a pie plate and quick frozen under moving
frigid air. The material fired at 87.6 deg C.
the crystal pattern was most unanticipated... swim has not previously seen this...
The stuff crystalizes!
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Harvest Dreamer
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dwarfer Posted On: Aug 12 2006 At: 5:23:02 PM | Reply Link
Talking Cow with Big Head
& Eloquentiasis Disorder
Inasmuch as phosphonic is 1.66 X denser than water,
the % composition of H2O should be discernable thru
Member #: 3305 physical process akin to determing the Baume of, say, HCl.
Topics started: 252
Posts: 2133
First of all, what is the solubility of phosphonic in water?
What would 1 CC weigh at saturation?
This is off the top of my head,
but likely one of you brillianttypes
will complete the methodology,
and become famous.
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hAzzBEEn Posted On: Aug 12 2006 At: 5:54:30 PM | Reply Link
Why do I even bother?
Quote:
Member #: 124
Topics started: 34
I think the 083 numbers refer to the ammonium/potassium/phosphorous levels in fertilizer. or something like
Posts: 698 that... they measure mass of elements that plants need
City:
State:
When SWIM learned about this stuff back in horticulture education, he was taught that these numbers are simple ratios, and
mean nothing more than that. Assuming this is correct, 0166 would be identical to 083. It's not really a mass ratio
compared to the weight of the product, because it doesn't account for the dilution.
NPK, 083, just means no nitrogen source, 8 parts phosphorus by mass/earthweight to 3 parts potassium... probably both in
the form of a salt, but it doesn't count the other part of the salt. If the phosphorus is in the form of phosphorous acid or
phosphite salt, the ratio only accouns for the actual mass of the phosphorus element component of the compound that
contains it.
All this considered, it still has nothing to do with the dilution. It could be 8g phosphorus (in some compound), 3g potassium (in
some compound), and any amount of water (or whatever they use) to dilute it down to a reasonable strenght. Those numbers
are just examples, of course. It could be 2.35000 oz phos, 0.88125 oz potassium (both in compounds), and 54.3948 gallons of
water. Sorry to ramble... trying to be clear.
[ Edited by: hAzzBEEn on Aug 12 2006 5:56:38 PM ]
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phenylamine Posted On: Aug 16 2006 At: 10:26:31 PM | Reply Link
Newbee Dreamer
Nice job swit!
swip has never been able to get it anywhere near dry enough that it will crystalise.
Member #: 3352
Topics started: 4
Did swit just follow the norm procedure but with the added 99% ipa boil at the end?
Posts: 32 swip has had trouble when freezing with h2o getting into the container with the h3po3 even when using supposedly airtight
containers with a package of baked epsom taped to the lid.
any tips for swip would bee appreciated.
Once again nice job it looks beeutifull.
Peace.
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tramp Posted On: Aug 19 2006 At: 11:10:22 AM | Reply Link
Harvest Dreamer
this material caanot be dried over CaCl2. It has a greater affinity for water than any of the common drying agents. The
Member #: 169 crystaline material was prepared by identically the procedure mentioned in the opening post. When it had been reduced to a
Topics started: 33 very thick phosphorus smelling liquid, a quantity of 99% IPA was added... roughly 50 ml in this case... the material was then
Posts: 925
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boiled until no alcohol smell was observed. It was poured hot onto the pie dish shown and placed uncovered in a frost free
State: freezer just below the air vents. It was thought that the moving air would assist in preventing the condensation that has
Country: Peru plauged previous drying efforts. When the material was retrieved from the freezer some two hours later, it was observed to
have assumed the crystaline pattern photographed.
The material was run in a ratio of 1.0:1.5:2.0:1.0 (E:I2:PA:dH2O) HI production was completed in 30 minutes time at 120 deg
C and the pseudo HCl was added only upon completion of the HI production. The reaction was subsequently run at 130 deg for
5 hours and 145 deg C for the last hour. The yeild was very near the theoretical maximum...
swim has been unable to locate the exact figure for theroretical maximum with this synthesis, however, the yeild from this
reaction appeared to be in the > 90% range. The reaction fluid in this case was orange instead of yellow... probably due to
the large excess of iodine present... The astronomical yeild was radically unexpected as previous runs with H3PO3 have
returned no more than 70% of available pse. This was a 4 gram nano run in a 250 ml earlenmyer under a 400 mm liebig.
swim was angry and was cooking under duress mostly against his will. he was sloppy and didn't much give a fuck if it went
right or not. he took the opportunity to try fucking with the ratios in ways he normally wouldn't try. He got massive amounts
of very high quality ma in the process. These findings are preliminary and reported simply as observed with no claim that they
can be replicated. Swim will eventually verify them, but he does now know that very high yeilds are possible with this reducing
agent.
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ralphie Posted On: Aug 25 2006 At: 01:04:21 AM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
Swim added 3g pseudo, 3.6g I2, 4.5g PA, 3mL H2O (1,1.2,1.5,1). Brought up to and over 100C with no activity whatsoever.
Member #: 2605
Refluxed for 5 hours at 130C. Rxn fluid based 3x into naphtha, which were frozen out of curiosity. Low and behold, there's the
Topics started: 11 3gs of pseudo.
Posts: 305
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Swim extracted PA via extraction method posted earlier (with one exception). Before the PA was completely dry (last of KCL
crashed upon addition of MeOH), the coils started arching blue fucking sparks THROUGH the Visionware pot into the PA soln.
Little scary. PA was very viscous, and at appr 10% original volume.
Suspect excess H2O and HCl in extracted PA.
Any hints as to what went wrong would be greatly appreciated by swim.
Rxn fluid looked similar to adding balsamic vinegar to olive oil. The I2 was completely separate from the PA/H2O/pseudo until
around 130C.
Also, is there an alternative to Visionware for this extraction? That fucking arching was scary shit! Swim pulled that bitch off
the burner and left the room anticipating a shattering sound. The pot remained intact, and was promptly thrown away.
Goddamn, a falied rxn is a bummer. Any advice on that issue is also greatly appreciated.
Peace!!!
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Harvest Dreamer
swim actually does this on a gas stove... no doubt this is probably treacherous but there is nothing flammable involved until
Member #: 169 way at the end when swim adds the 99% IPA. When the time comes to apply the alcohol, swim shuts down the gas stove and
Topics started: 33 moves to the electric hotplate. Swim is bad impatient and likes to do this quickly and efficently. He's tried several ways of
Posts: 925
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boiling it down...
State:
Country: Peru in a large oversized beaker on a skillet of sand on an electric hotplate.
in a visonware skillet directly on the gas burner.
in a visionware skillet directly on the electric coil hotplate.
in a round bottomed flask in the microwave.
he does not care for the microwave method. the release of HCl gas is bad for the oven's electronics and one tries to severely
limit such releases...
swim has been thinking of something radical though...
she's going to drill a small 3/8" diameter hole in an unobtrusive location through the oven's cabinet. she's then going to bend a
glass street elbow (a very long elbow) out of a suitable length of very thick walled pyrex tubing... install this in the oven so
that it runs from the cabinet parallel to the ceiling of the cabinet to the center. Then it bends down so a flask can be
attached to it. Rubber stoppers can and often do explode in the microwave so they must be avaoided. Ideal would be ground
glass joints but polyethylene shows pretty good resiliancy in the microwave... make a seal out of a piece of this poly tubing...
very tight small seal... between the glass tube and the flask... then attach vacuum pump to the out let of the flask (or more
properly, attach vacuum pump to trap and trap to flask. Trap is simply a bell jar with two pipes coming out of it. Its simply
there to protect the pump. One would fill it with something such as sodium hydroxide in this case and provide something like
plastic brillo pad material to prevent the sodium hydroxide from being sucked down the vacuum hose... The NaOH will trap not
only the HCl vapors but also water... it might even be wise to make this a cold NaOH trap so water vapors will be readily
condensed... again, its just to protect the pump. If you are using a water aspirator type, you would need no trap.
at any rate... now she can boil this stuff down in two ways at once... if her vacuum pump is good enough, she will be able to
boil the stuff at room temp... for a while anyway. The microwave is there so one can rapidly heat... and cool the liquid as
needed. The entire experiment would be conducted under vacuum in the microwave... she suspects that very high levels of
drying would be possible...
[ Edited by: tramp on Aug 25 2006 06:32:12 AM ]
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Harvest Dreamer
i do apologize for going off onto such a tangent, swiralfie... swim finds himself unexectedly twacked this morning... lots of cool
Member #: 169 ideas in his head...
Topics started: 33
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anyway.
State:
Country: Peru the reaction would have succeeded had the acid been dry.
if it did nothing until 130 deg C
Quote:
The I2 was completely separate from the PA/H2O/pseudo until around 130C.
it simply had to much water present.
swim wants to explain what this thing is like when it goes off... the reaction fluid is lind of yellow and the little balls of iodine
are all together at the bottom of the flask like pool balls in the rack... they don't do much of anything except sit there and look
menecing... this reaction is scary when it goes off properly... absolutley nothing at all happens until the magic temp is
reached. It sholud be about 87 deg C. Certainly by 91 deg C.
and what happens is that the instant that temp is reached, the goddamned thing explodes. its a very highly exothermic
process. the little iodine balls just explode... violently. HI production takes place pretty much all at once in about 2 seconds
flat. There are some pictures of it around here...
it must go off before 91 or so degrees, otherwise, the water ratio is going to be off and the reaction can fail. a very skilled bee
could compensate for this but swim has found that rather than learn how to compensate for wet acid, his efforts have been
devoted toward simply making the acid dry to begin with.
if the acid is dry, the reaction simply cannot fail.
if it is wet, your odds are poor.
at least swiyou got back the pseudo.
listen to what swim says...
repeat after swim:
"TEST FIRE THE ACID FIRST"
"IF IT GOES OFF BELOW 91 DEG C... IT IS GOOD TO GO.
"IF IT GOES OFF ABOVE 91 DEG C... THE ACID IS WET AND MUST BE DRIED MORE."
if swiyou will just test fire the stuff beforehand, swiyou will know for certain when the acid is good. if it fires at the right temp,
the reaction is almost 100% sure to return ma of astronomical quality.
test fire it first.
if it fails, then take the whole batch of PA, melt it, and dry it more... boil it or place it on a large pie plate and bake it in the
oven... 121 deg C (250 deg F ) for a while... this will drive off more water... then refreeze it and
test fire it again!
eventually, it will pass. when it does, it will not fail.
it does not matter what kind of boiling arrangement you create... the idea is to boil it down rapidly and effectively... large
surface area containers achieve this best.
Use vacuum funnel to filter KCl to minimize losses... eventually, the stuff will no longer filter through mechanical filters...
normally there is not much KCl remaining by this point... a stainless steel screen, very fine, will trap the crystals and allow the
viscous liquid to flow through...
when it is this thick, thats when to throw the alcohol to it...
but, for real... just figure out your own way to boil it... swim likes the idea of microwave/vacuum but it is really overkill...
swim's first batch was dried also under vacuum... this worked very well but swim has also gotten very excellent results with no
vacuum dessicator...
hope this helps...
test fire!!!
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tramp Posted On: Sep 10 2006 At: 8:34:55 PM | Reply Link
Harvest Dreamer
after a recent hair raising observation, I am forced to admit that there is an error in this procedure that could have serious
Member #: 169 safety issues...
Topics started: 33
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swim was preparing a batch of the acid as he's done many times before. at the very end of the procedure, one must pay close
State: attention to the odor of the boiling liquid.
Country: Peru
long after the disappearance of the HCl scent, the alcohol scent will vanish. once this occurs, it is something of a trick to
guess how much longer to boil it.
when the alcohol scent vanishes, the remaining smell is strongly phosphorus. it smells just like white or red phosphorus more
so like white...
this phosphorus smell is the main way one can tell when the stuff is very nearly dry.
the trick is to know how much longer to boil it after that.
swim over did it in the quest for perfection that never ends...
it ignited.
not catastrophically. no, this was the phosphine gas others have warned against. swim has seen it in overheated rp/i reactions
many times before. sparks of light that unique to phosphrus fires shade of unearthly green...
the bowl was too hot. swim was tired and trying to hurry. it popped or sizzled... bubbles... tiny ones... would erupt to the
surface and explode in green colored sparks...
so swim thinks to cover it to put it out... it was not particularly terrifying or anything... but made swim nervous as hell...
would the whole fucking thing turn into a phosphorus based fire?
it did not.
swim knew it was making phosphine because he is familiar with the stuff. has seen it before. several times.
he knew it would stop if it cooled down.
so he covered it and shoved it in the freezer. it went out within 60 seconds.
swim understands this danger now. its no longer a theoretical concept stashed in the deepest recesses of the Hive.
crackwhores never listen. if they say this way, she goes that.
at any rate... watch very closely and pay close attention to the smell at the end... when it stops smelling like IPA, be very
careful and gentle with the application of the heat. Just as others predicted and swim ignored, the shit will evolve phosphine
and it will catch fire. Swim's H3PO3 did catch fire briefly. It was exinguished easily and without incident but this occurance will
not be repeated. The risk of this happening at all still seem small as swim has done numerous acid extractions in the same
manner and not previously generated phosphine. Certainly not flaming phosphine.
On the positive side, the resulting H3PO3 did crystalize in exactly the manner of before. Swim has now seen crystaline H3PO3
twice in two seperate extractions.
He does not entirely understand what the result of a phosphine fire are. The H3PO3 evidently breaks down into PH3 and
oxygen (or ozone???). Then the PH3 ignites, presumably leaving P4 and hydrogen which would in turn burn???
swim isn't sure about all this. he wonders what his H3PO3 might now be contaminated with. maybe some portion of it oxidized
to H3PO4.
swim isn't sure about any of this.
the crystal pattern is beautiful.
[ Edited by: tramp on Sep 10 2006 8:47:51 PM ]
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1phen2prop Posted On: Sep 10 2006 At: 9:21:32 PM | Reply Link
spunnn
now u see why swi1phen stays away from alky.
Member #: 645
Topics started: 86 wait, why do u think it was the phosphorus that ignited, if u had phosphorous igniting u wouldnt be here to speak of it. Are
Posts: 912 you sure the evapping alcohol didnt catch a flame or spark near your heat source?
City:
State:
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tramp Posted On: Sep 11 2006 At: 07:25:57 AM | Reply Link
Harvest Dreamer
when you can explain to me in rigorous, scientific detail why and how an alcohol can oxidize an inorganic acid known to be a
Member #: 169 strong reducing agent, then I will believe this line of reasoning. But what you say is preposterous to me. If anything, the acid
Topics started: 33 will reduce the alcohol, not the other way way around!
Posts: 925
City:
State: This was not an alcohol fire, it was phosphine (PH3) generated by by heating the acid beyond its decomposition temperature.
Country: Peru The same phosphine that will spark and throw flashes off light out of a grossly too hot pushpull or an overheated microwave
cook.
The color and smell of a phosphine fire is unmistakable. The gas spontaniously ignites on contact with air. This is exactly what
swim observed... tiny bubbles that formed on the bottom of the beaker and moved upward through the solution. As soon as
they would break free of the liquid, they would immediately pop and burn... they looked a lot like electric arcs only they had
the unmistakable color of a phosphorus fire.
phosphorus burns a very unique green color. swim knows of nothing else that has that particular unearthly glow.
all the alcohol does is take advantage of the boiling point depression phenomenon. It forms an azeotrope with water which in
turn, lowers the boiling point of the mixture. If anything, this proceedure is more safe with the alcohol than without. Because
the phosphine is created when the acid is heated above its decomposition point. The alcohol allows one to boil it at a slightly
lower temperature.
what you suggest about my not surviving a phosphorus fire is rediculous. when i was a teenager, i pilfered 5 pounds of white
phosphorus from a high school lab. I played with this stuff for a couple of years before it ran out. I burned it all... in many,
many different ways. It is a radically dangerous compound but not like you might think. The dangers center more around what
happens when it gets on your skin while burning or what happens when it makes massive clouds of smoke and you breathe it...
it is not a substance I fear in the slightest. Respect yes, fear no.
When swim had the incident with the phosphine, it was a bit hairraising... one never likes to see phosphorus fire where he
didn't expect it before hand... but phosphine is an ever present potential occupational hazard for the meth cook. almost all of
us have encountered it at least once or twice. The gas is toxic and flammable but sooner or later, if one cooks enough, he is
going to see it. Having seen it many times in the past, swim knew how to deal with it.
(THROW IT OUT THE WINDOW!)
lol
remove the heat, cool whatever is generating it. deprive it of air. it will go out.
this is the material that suffered phosphine sparks...
false color to enhance the crystal pattern:
This shows the same material drying in the freezer... notice how swim has it standing vertically. He found that, if he freezes it
flat and then stands it on edge overnight, any alcohol that didn't boil off will drain off of the crystal mass... this sample did
have about 2 ml of IPA still clinging to it as swim didnt want to put it back on the heat.
[ Edited by: tramp on Sep 11 2006 07:38:29 AM ]
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Harvest Dreamer
test firing the material shown above.
Member #: 169
Topics started: 33 this is a 1.2 gram sample mixed with 1.2 grams of I2 and 1.0 cc of dH2O... the temp at this time was 88 deg C
Posts: 925
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Country: Peru
This photo was taken about one second after the first... temp 89 deg C.
Notice how some of the iodine begins subliming on walls of the flask in the first photo and how the entire flask is filled with HI
in the second... one will also notice that the acid was not 100% anhydrous as the reaction went off at 89 deg C instead of 87.
This 2 degree deviation is not sufficent to warrant additional drying of the acid, so this material appears suitable for use.
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Harvest Dreamer
actually, you have maintained all along that the reason for electing to not use the alcohol was alcoholic oxidation of the
Member #: 169 reducing agent...
Topics started: 33
Posts: 925
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Country: Peru
Originally posted by 1phen2prope
The alcohol part you use swi1phen believes will oxidize too much h3po3. That is why swim didnt use it in his
writeup.
I think the entire notion preposterous. if proven wrong, i will have no problems admitting it.
<<smart mouthed remarks deleted>>
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Harvest Dreamer
furthermore, to clarify this again, there was no explosion and no real fire. Sparks of phosphine, appearantly, that ceased very
Member #: 169 quickly. Swim was not in even the remotest way at risk of being killed.
Topics started: 33
Posts: 925
City:
State: the shit will do identically the same thing with no alcohol at all if you overheat it.
Country: Peru
phosphine will be produced if the H3PO3 exceeds 180 deg.
alcohol or no alcohol.
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Harvest Dreamer
<<flames deleted>>
Member #: 169
Topics started: 33
Posts: 925
City:
State: tramp's sig
Country: Peru We seek infinite addiction potential... if you can put it down, its not strong enough!

Harvest Dreamer
anyone who works with these materials long enough will eventually encounter phosphine. swim has no shame whatsoever
Member #: 169 about having it appear and spark at him.
Topics started: 33
Posts: 925
City:
swim does not post what he does in an attempt to gain glory for himself. its simply here so others can learn from it and so that
State: swim can learn from other's critiques of it.
Country: Peru
it would be only too easy to omit all references to having ever seen fire during any of this... but science that does not
describe the fuckups and failures is not science at all.
the fuckups and the failures are where the greatest insight occurs.
there is no error in the procedure posted.
the error was in swim misjudging the relative dryness of the product in question.
were the process invalid, the photos of crystaline H3PO3 would not exist.
<<edit to remove senseless flames>>
swim like swi1phen and did not really mean to start a flame war.
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ralphie Posted On: Sep 12 2006 At: 3:12:30 PM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
Well well...swir knew swiTramp would have a field day with swi1phucktard's remark.
Member #: 2605
Topics started: 11 Think there's a small difference between an alcohol fire and a phosphine fire???
Posts: 305
City:
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Quote:
Conversion to phosphine
Phosphine, being a flammable and toxic gas, is inconveniently stored. Fortunately this useful species is readily
prepared by thermal decomposition of phosphorous acid:
4 HP(O)(OH)2 > PH3 + 3 H3PO4
Since phosphoric acid is a syrupy nonvolatile liquid, the gaseous PH3 is readily separated.
And regarding phosphine generation...
Quote:
Each bubble of gas rises to the surface of the water, and, when it comes into contact with air, ignites with a
slight explosion and burns with a brilliant flash of light, forming a vortex ring of phosphorus pentoxide, P2O5.
Modern Inorganic Chemisrty, Mellor 1934
Does swi1Phen think that a container of molten H3PO4/H3PO3 and combusting PH3(g) looks ANYthing like an alcohol fire?
Wish swiTramp hadn't deleted what he said, some people need a quick "check". swiPhen certainly has the capacity to be
cool...seems more a matter or willingness.
If this post is out of line please PM swiralph.
Finally to address the topic at hand; swiTramp's quick thinking whilst dealing with a PH3 fire may have saved his life, and
hopefully will save others' should they be so unlucky to witness the phenomenon. This may be a garsh darn good reason to
monitor the Temp during this extraction. Many thanks to swiTramp for the warning and another great set of pics!
On a side note, GLAD swiTramp's okay!!! Wholy shit, an MEK fire and a phosphine fire?! Dude's got some brass BALLZ!!!
Much love swiTramp, stay safe.
Peace
[ Edited by: ralphie on Sep 12 2006 9:30:35 PM ]
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chi Posted On: Sep 12 2006 At: 5:38:02 PM | Reply Link
Moderator
i was going to add my own warning on phosphine long ago until i saw:
Member #: 112
>He has found the concerns posted there to be mostly acedemic in nature with little bearing on physical reality. It seems one
Topics started: 10 of those cases where threory sounds good but doesnt pan out in the lab with real chemicals.
Posts: 1046
City:
State:
the truth is, real chemists who work in real labs with real chemicals have a firm grip on reality. but they tire of being criticized
as overprotective after warning of the joys of chromyl chloride, red HNO3, or ammonia fumes, boiling flammable solvents over a
gas stove, etc.; as if the posters, authors, editors, et al. haven't been there before.
in reality, people often leave things on the stove for too long, burn down the lab, spill acid on themselves...

Harvest Dreamer
the burned acid did this:
Member #: 169
Topics started: 33
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Country: Peru
This one is kind of hard to see... the entire bowl is covered in clear as glass crystal except right around the hole where it has
the more normal white frost... as soon as one would hit the pipe, it would rock back into clear as glass crystal...
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Harvest Dreamer
no, the mek fire was a couple of years ago... hairdrier caught some on fire in a pie plate.
Member #: 169
Topics started: 33 swim understands now exactly what was going on... notice in the picture of the acid in the freezer, swim has the pie plate up
Posts: 925
City:
on edge... it was, in fact phosphoric acid... the syrupy liquid... that swim observed draining off of the H3PO3, not water, as
State: swim had originally (incorrectly) assumed. There was a total of 3.7 ml of this liquid collected off of the 11.4 grams of H3PO3
Country: Peru shown. Were it not so early in the morning, swim could compute exactly how much phosgine was generated and exactly what
percentage of his PA was damaged.
But swim is thinking this demonstration quite useful, even if it was rather dangerous, as it illustrates exactly the process by
which phosphorus acid oxidizes to phosphoric acid and how one can tell them apart. The oxidation occurs by the route laid out
by swiralphie:
Quote:
4 HP(O)(OH)2 > PH3 + 3 H3PO4
swim believes the same thing will occur, alcohol or no... if anything at all, swim thinks the alcohol would actually make the
method safer, as it boils at a lower temp than water... making for drying at lower temp with less risk of decomposition.
Swim sincerely was at no risk of death. He easily and readily extinguished the sparks by sealing the beaker with a gloved hand.
Others are advised to have on hand some means of sealing the drying vessel so should they encounter phosphine, they can
easily put it out. Swim only sees grave danger in any of this should one go off and leave the extraction unatteneded on the
stove.
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Harvest Dreamer
edit: swim cant figure out how to edit posts with the board broken like it is... correct all references to phosgene gas to say
Member #: 169 "phosphine". Swim is making meth, not weapons of mass destruction!
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de_natured Posted On: Dec 24 2006 At: 06:18:02 AM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
This is a great thread. Ive found a couple of potassium phosphite based products on the internet but there is a shop near me
Member #: 3375
that sells a mixture of potassium phosphite and potassium phosphate (not sure what the ratio is yet.) Im a bit worried about
Topics started: 30 ordering stuff off the web so Im planning to try it with this mixture first.
Posts: 666
I guess that the KH2PO4 would turn into H3PO4 and the KH2PO3 into H3PO3. The problem is that I dont know how to seperate
them, phosphorous acid decomposes eaily and I dont have a vacum source to distill with. However they do have very different
melting points (70°,42°) maybe I could use this to seperate them?
If any one has tried this then it would be great to know how it went.
Thanks,
De_Natured
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ralphie Posted On: Dec 24 2006 At: 10:49:06 AM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
And as the two acids have different melting points, they likely have different freezing points as well...
Member #: 2605
Topics started: 11 SwiTramp hit on this a little earlier in the thread.
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bjohn Posted On: Dec 24 2006 At: 12:02:04 PM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
If swims memory serves him correct and he wasn't all hopped up on the way out when he said it...He said that it is a practice
Member #: 1792
by some to run the synth with h3po4 instead of h2o. So make sure to do a test fire to get swiyour temp, and that might help
Topics started: 19 with the ratios. just a couple of cents and no sense.
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Country: Benin
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de_natured Posted On: Dec 24 2006 At: 6:38:57 PM | Reply Link
Wet Dreamer
I never even thoguht of that, thanks! Yeh phosphoric acid and acetic acid can be used as solvents.
Member #: 3375
Topics started: 30 Am I right in thinking that the hydrogen will be used to make hydriodic acid and the oxygen used to oxidise the h3po3/h3po2?
Posts: 666 If so then this should generate free phosphorous and speed the reaction up.
Ill try and post some pictures soon.
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flush_it Posted On: Feb 03 2007 At: 03:47:08 AM | Reply Link
Dreamer
hey there great write up just a quick question can u turn this into hypo???swim knows theres no need to but would it be
Member #: 416
possible?
Topics started: 4 thanx
Posts: 56
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clockwork Posted On: Apr 15 2007 At: 06:07:38 AM | Reply Link
Dreamer
If swim were to test fire 1.2g PA and 1.2g I2 and add 1cc of dh20. If all goes well with test fire would it be ok to just add
Member #: 806
more reagents to the test fired stuff and procede with reaction?
Topics started: 4
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tramp Posted On: Apr 15 2007 At: 09:16:20 AM | Reply Link
Harvest Dreamer
yes provided you test fire under a condenser so the HI doesnt escape... just fire it under a condenser, if it goes off at the
Member #: 169 right temp, then turn off the heat, let it cool completely, then you can add the rest of the chemicals and proceed...
Topics started: 33
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Azog1 Posted On: Feb 19 2008 At: 2:04:53 PM | Reply Link
Dreamer
Member #: 5613
so, other than the addition of the boiling chips or sand, the easier workup, the prefiring (which SWIM thinks is smart for RP
Topics started: 3 too), lower temps, and shorter RXN time; does the phos acid synth differ in any other way from a RP synth?
Posts: 77
SWIM seems to remember that a hypophos synth (which granted, is a stronger reducer than the phos acid) required a braided
hose whereas the RP synth can utilize vinyl tubing "a la" aquarium". can the phos acid RXN use vinyl tubing and a punch ballon?
also, is there any way to reuse the phos acid from the RXN? SWIM does like this aspect of the RP. and yes, SWIM does realize
the phos acid is cake to extract, just wondering.
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