Vol 12

1 IN THE CRIMINAL COURT OF TENNESSEE AT CHATTANOOGA
THE ELEVENTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
3 STATE OF TENNESSEE *
Appellee,
*
VS. * Case Nos. 215403
5 * 215404, 215405
FRANKIE E. CASTEEL *
Appellant. *
7
TRANSCRIPT OF THE EVIDENCE
8 Volume Twelve of Eighteen Volumes
Pages 1651-1800
9
THE HONORABLE DOUGLAS A. MEYER, PRESIDING JUDGE
10
11 APPEARANCES
12
FOR THE STATE OF TENNESSEE:
13
William Cox, Esq.
14 District Attorney General
City and County Courts Building
15 Chattanooga, Tennessee 37402
16 SPECIAL PROSECUTOR:
17 C. Leland Davis, Esq.

428 McCallie Avenue
19 FOR THE DEFENDANT:
20 Don W. Poole, Esq.,

Poole, Thornbury, Stanley, Morgan &
21 Richardson
732 Cherry Street
23 Phillip C. Lawrence, Esq.

Lawrence and Lawrence
24 701 Republic Centre
Chattanooga, Tennessee 37402
25
1 TABLE OF CONTENTS
Volume Twelve
2
PAGE
3
May 16, 1998 - Saturday
4
SHARON MARIE HILL
5 Voir Dire Examination/Cox
(Jury out) 1655
6 Voir Dire Examination/Lawrence
(Jury out) 1661
7 Direct Examination (Continued) 1671
Cross Examination 1683
8 Redirect Examination 1707
Recross Examination 1709
9
STEVE CRAIG
10 Voir Dire Examination/Davis
(Jury out) 1712
11 Voir Dire Examination/Poole
(Jury out) 1715
12 Further Voir Dire/Davis
(Jury out) 1718
13 Direct Examination 1723
14 Redirect Examination 1735
Recross Examination 1736
15
State rests 1742
16
May 18, 1998 - Monday
17
Motion for Judgment of Acquittal
18 (Jury out) 1761
19 DEFENSE PROOF
20 FRANK CASTEEL, JR.

Direct Examination 1767
21 Cross Examination 1780
Redirect Examination 1785
22
MARTHA MARIE BARNES CASTEEL
23 Direct Examination 1786
24
25
Hill - Direct
1 Q And so this occurred in 1996 in October, so
2 July of 1988 would have been eight years ago, is that
3 correct?
4 A Correct.
5 Q There are also references in the statement
6 to certain articles, newspaper articles, is that right?
7 A Correct.
8 Q And could you tell us what's been referred
9 to -- first of all, had those articles been received by
10 you?
11 A Correct.
12 Q And tell us whether or not you had shown
13 them to Mr. Casteel?
14 A Yes.
15 Q All right. Tell us, if you would, what you
16 received in the mail?
17 A I got an envelope at work about this size,
18 and it had in it first a piece of paper that said, "Look
19 what kind of boyfriend you have."
20 MR. POOLE: Your Honor, please the Court,
21 and I guess I could be standing up and jumping around,
22 but I'll object to all this line of questioning.
23 THE COURT: All right. You can note an
24 exception.
25 Q (By Mr. Cox) Go ahead.
1651
Hill - Direct
1 A "Look what type of boyfriend you have."
You better watch out, or something to that effect, and
3 it had newspaper clippings.
4 Q And what did the newspaper clippings
5 regard, refer to?
6 A They regarded, they were referenced to the
7 Signal Mountain murders.
8 Q I show you what's previously been marked as
9 State's Exhibit Number 74 for identification purposes.
10 (Thereupon, a bench conference was held on
11 the record in the presence of the jury but
12 out of the hearing of the jury and the
13 following proceedings were had:)
14 MR. LAWRENCE: Your Honor, it's one thing
15 to say what she's got, but to pass a bunch of newspaper
16 articles to the jury as if they had some insulation from
17 being hearsay is just, is irrelevant.
18 MR. POOLE: It doesn't mean anything.
19 MR. DAVIS: She's got newspaper clippings.
20 MR. LAWRENCE: She says newspaper
21 clippings, I mean, that shouldn't be passed to the jury.
22 MR. COX: They're not being introduced to
23 establish the truth, Your Honor. They'd be introduced
24 to show the subject matter of the conversation that's
25 being had during this three-way conversation and what
1652
Hill - Direct
1 they were talking about. We're not introducing them to
2 argue that they're true, the newspaper articles are
3 true; we're just showing them to show what they were
4 talking about during this particular time.
5 THE COURT: Did she discuss them with him?
6 MR. COX: Yeah. She's going to testify she
7 showed them to him, discussed them with him and gave
8 them to him and he took them.
9 THE COURT: Okay. You can note an
10 exception.
11 MR. LAWRENCE: And so what's he supposed to
12 do with them? I mean, how is that probative of
13 anything, the fact that she gave them to him?
14 THE COURT: Just shows that, what his
15 response to these were.
16 MR. COX: What he's responding to in the
17 conversations, they're talking about the newspaper
18 articles, this is them.
19 THE COURT: Anything he said to her could
20 constitute an admission against interest or a tacit
21 admission against interest, and you have to show the
22 jury what she showed him to show them what his response
23 to it was.
24 MR. POOLE: Were these things supposedly on
25 the tape?
1653
Hill - Direct
1 MR. COX: Yeah.
2 MR. POOLE: I don't remember him making any
3 statements.
4 MR. COX: I just laid the foundation with
her for that and they said she was talking to him about
6 the newspaper articles.
7 MR. LAWRENCE: We heard the tapes. There
8 wasn't any statement on the tape about these newspaper
9 articles.
10 MR. COX: Yes, there was.
11 MR. LAWRENCE: By Frank Casteel?
12 MR. COX: During the conversation, yes.
13 MR. LAWRENCE: Point it to me.
14 THE COURT: Well, even if he weren't, she
15 testified that she discussed these articles with him,
16 she got this envelope and discussed it with him, and
17 anything he said in response would be an admission
18 against interest or a tacit admission against interest.
19 MR. POOLE: But, Judge, you have to know
20 something about what he said. I don't think he said
21 anything of substance.
22 THE COURT: You want to ask her outside the
23 presence of the jury?
24 MR. LAWRENCE: Yes, I think we have to.
25 THE COURT: Okay.
1654
Hill - Direct
1 (Thereupon, said bench conference having
2 been completed, the following proceedings
were had in the presence and hearing of
the jury:)
5 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Jurors, if
6 you would, step back in the jury room. And if you think
7 that you're going to be drowsy after lunch, you can walk
8 back and forth up and down the hall.
9 (Thereupon, at 2:10 p.m., the jury was
10 excused from open court and the following
11 proceedings were had in its absence:)
12 THE COURT: You want to let Mr. Lawrence or
13 Mr. Poole question her at this time?
14 MR. COX: I think I can establish it
15 probably more ably than they can.
16 THE COURT: Okay. All right.
17 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. COX:
19 Q Ms. Hill?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q In this conversation on that night, do you
22 recollect somewhere in there there was a mention of
23 these articles that you received in the mail?
24 A There was a, as well as I remember, there
25 was a mention of my having received things in the mail.
1655
Hill - Voir Dire/Cox
1 Q All right. And you had received them
2 sometime prior to this conversation, is that correct?
A Correct.
4 Q And at some point you were discussing these
5 in this conversation, is that right?
6 A Correct.
7 Q And after you had received these articles
8 in the mail, prior to this three-way conversation on
9 October the 12th, did you show them to Mr. Casteel?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And did you discuss them with him or say
12 anything to him or he to you in regard to them?
13 A Yes.
14 Q What was that conversation?
15 A I asked him about it. I told him I had
16 received it at work, and he told me that, yes, there had
17 been some murders near some property he owned and that
18 he had been questioned, as had other people, and he had
19 cooperated and that was it, and it was --
20 Q All right. Did he take these items with
21 him?
22 A Not at that time.
23 Q At some point in time did he take them?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And when was that?
1656
A When I'd received the second letter.
2 Q All right. And you received a second
3 letter, which we have the envelope for, is that correct?
4 A Correct.
5 Q And what did that second letter say?
6 A It said, started out, "Hello, Marie, this
7 is what you've been waiting" on or waiting for. "I know
8 you've been working with the police to catch Frank
9 Casteel for the murders on the mountain," and it said
10 that they were camping out on their property on the
11 mountain, and that the men came up on the ATVs, and that
12 he shot them with a shotgun because they were disturbing
13 him, and then it said she sent -- "he sent me home."
14 And about that time is when he came in.
15 Q He who?
16 A Frank.
17 Q While you were reading this letter?
18 A Correct.
19 Q All right. Then what happened?
20 A Well, he asked me what was wrong and I
21 handed him the letter and he started reading it, and he
22 got real upset and he just started saying, Well, this is
23 bogus, this is bogus, you know, look at this, and he
24 showed me the signature, and it was signed "Boozy."
25 Q All right.
1657
A And he said, "Do you have any reason to
2 keep this?"
3 And I said, "No, it doesn't have anything
4 to do with me." And I said, "As far as that goes, you
5 can have the other, too." And I gave him the other --
Q This?
7 A Correct.
8 Q Did he take that letter with him?
9 A Correct.
10 Q All right. And during this conversation on
11 the 12th of October, is there a discussion between Mr.
12 Casteel, Mrs. Casteel and you about this missing letter?
13 A He discusses it, yes.
14 Q He discusses it about having shown it to
15 Suzie, is that correct?
16 A Correct.
17 Q All right. And then at some later point
18 after this conversation, did you ask him for that letter
19 back?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And were you going to give it to the
22 police?
23 A Yes.
24 Q All right. And tell what happened in
25 regard to the, to the return of that letter by Mr.
1658
1 Casteel to you?
2 A Okay. I asked him for the letters back,
3 and first he went out to his car and he brought in the
4 envelope with the newspaper clippings.
5 Q This one?
6 A Correct.
7 Q All right.
8 A And I said, "Well, where is the other
9 letter?"
10 And so he went back out to his car and he
11 came in with his briefcase, and he started searching
12 through it and he found the envelope and gave it to me.
13 And he looked some more and he handed me a sheet of
14 paper, and I said, "No, that's not it. That's blank."
15 So he went on and he did find the letter.
16 Q He did produce the letter?
17 A He did produce the letter. It was in his
18 briefcase.
19 Q All right.
20 A So at that time I had it all back in my
21 possession.
22 Q All right.
23 A He then asked me to return the money to him
24 that he had given me to hold for us.
25 Q All right.
1659
1 A And I wrote him a check.
2 Q All right.
3 A And he questioned the amount, and we, when
4 he had given me the money, we had written down the
5 amount and both initialed it on a piece of paper so in
6 case there was ever -- no question about, about it in
7 the future, or it wouldn't cause any problems.
8 So I went out to get the paper, and while I
9 was out getting the paper, he took that one back, the
10 letter that was in the small envelope and substituted in
11 its place a blank piece of paper.
12 Q All right. And then he left?
13 A And then he left.
14 Q All right. So when you looked back in the
15 envelope, there was -- the original letter was gone?
16 A Well, it wasn't in the envelope. They were
17 all laying on the couch, but the original letter was
18 gone.
19 Q So after he left, you picked them up and
20 determined that he had substituted the letter with a
21 blank?
22 A Correct.
23 Q Did he say anything about that particular
24 letter to you in regard to what effect it would have on
25 him?
1660
1 A Later on I paged him, and when he called me
2 back, at first he denied taking it. He acted like, told
3 me he didn't know what I was talking about, but then he
4 came over a second time that afternoon, and during the
5 course of the conversation he admitted that he had taken
6 i t.
7 Q What did he tell you he did with it?
A He told me that he had burned it.
9 Q And why did he tell you he did that?
10 A Because it said things about him that could
11 be harmful to him.
12 MR. COX: All right. That's all.
13 THE COURT: Mr. Lawrence or Mr. Poole?
15 BY MR. LAWRENCE:
16 Q Ms. Hill, you said in response to questions
17 asked to you by Mr. Poole on November 25, 1997, that you
18 couldn't remember what the letter said. It said that
19 "They were camping on the mountain and that the men came
20 up there on the three-wheelers and were disturbing them
21 and that Frank shot them and he sent her home. And
22 after that, I'm not sure because that's when he came in
23 and he took it and I only got to read through it that
24 much"?
25 A Correct.
1661
Hill - Voir Dire/Lawrence
1 Q Is that right?
2 A Yes.
3 Q His first statement to you that the matters
4 in the letter were bogus, do you remember saying that?
5 A Uh-huh.
6 Q And then do you have a recording of this
7 conversation where he talked about the effect of the
8 letter on him?
9 A There was a record -- that was recorded,
10 yes, sir.
11 Q Okay. And do we have the, a transcript of
12 that conversation?
13 MR. COX: I think we do.
14 MR. LAWRENCE: Can we see that, General?
15 Q (By Mr. Lawrence) What date do you recall
16 that being, Ms. Hill?
17 A That you're talking about what they're
18 fixing -- that was transcribed?
19 Q Correct. The conversation where you're
20 discussing with Mr. Casteel the effect that this letter
21 would have on him?
22 A It was later in the afternoon after the
23 five-hour conversation.
24 Q Then October the 12th?
25 A (Witness nods head up and down.) I would
1662
1 say it's either the 12th or the 13th. I would say the
2 12th.
Q During this five-hour conversation, there
4 was no mention of his having taken this letter and done
5 anything with it?
6 A Yes, there was.
7 Q Okay. Could have been, I don't recall.
8 When did you receive the letter that you're
9 talking about?
10 A It was either in August -- well, it would
11 have been in September. I don't know exactly when.
12 Q Late September?
13 A Well, just sometime in September. It was
14 between when we went to Florida and Labor Day and before
15 the first part of October when the police came and
16 talked to me.
17 Q And when was it that you showed Mr. Casteel
18 the letter?
19 A Immediately when I received it, when he
20 walked in.
21 Q At your home?
22 A Correct. Well, it would have had to have
23 been before the October recorded conversation because
24 it's discussed in there. He had it in his possession at
25 that time.
1663
Q Well, he didn't say in the recording that I
heard that he had a letter in his possession.
A He stated that he showed it to Suzie.
Q Okay. And it's your recollection that that
was played to the jury in this --
A Yes, sir.
MR. LAWRENCE: Your Honor, this doesn't in
any way validate the information contained in the
newspaper clippings as being information that the jury
ought to hear because of some admission on Mr. Casteel's
part.
MR. COX: Well, we'll agree not to
introduce the newspaper articles themselves, if that's
your concern.
MR. LAWRENCE: Well, that was certainly,
you certainly pressed that issue in front of His Honor
earlier, Mr. Cox.
MR. COX: Well then, you want me to change
my mind and say we'll do it?
MR. LAWRENCE: Well, it'd probably make a
difference if you changed your mind, I guess.
MR. COX: Want me to accommodate your
request or not, Mr. Lawrence?
MR. LAWRENCE: Well, it's up to the Court
to rule. We've objected to it. If the Court finds it's
1664
1 admissible, then --
2 THE COURT: No, he can introduce it if he
3 wishes. If he doesn't wish to, he doesn't have to. I
4 don't dictate how he puts on his proof.
5 All right. So we're ready for the jury
6 then?
7 MR. POOLE: Wait a second. What is the
8 ruling now, that he is going to put all this in or not?
9 I don't understand.
10 THE COURT: I said that he could.
11 MR. POOLE: Because it's admissible
12 evidence?
13 THE COURT: Yes.
14 MR. POOLE: The newspaper clippings and the
15 letter?
16 THE COURT: Yes, if that is what she
17 discussed with him.
18 MR. POOLE: Your Honor, there has to be
19 some exception or some reason. This is introduced for
20 the truth of what's in the newspaper articles?
21 THE COURT: No. No, it would not be. It
22 would be only introduced to show that this is what she
23 discussed with him, not for the truth of the articles.
24 MR. POOLE: And what about the letter
25 itself, the same ruling?
1665
1 THE COURT: There is no letter.
2 MR. DAVIS: The letter's been burned.
3 THE COURT: She testified --
4 MR. POOLE: She can testify to what was in
5 the letter?
6 THE COURT: She can testify as to what she
7 saw in the letter and discussed it with him.
8 MR. COX: And what he did and what his
9 reaction was to it.
10 MR. POOLE: Your Honor, what he did is not
11 admissible for any reason or any purpose. That's not --
12 the purpose of that is to try to say, Well, this is some
13 proof of something. It's not admissible.
14 THE COURT: No, it is admissible. Anything
15 that your client did or said to this witness is
16 admissible.
17 MR. POOLE: Anything he did or said to her?
18 THE COURT: Yeah, as long as it's relevant.
19 Not if they discussed going to a movie or something,
20 that wouldn't be relevant, but any discussion about the
21 murders on Signal Mountain would be relevant.
22 MR. LAWRENCE: Well, the point is that, you
23 know, he, he specifically denied the veracity of
24 anything in these newspaper clippings.
25 THE COURT: Right.
1666
1 MR. LAWRENCE: And so that's not conduct
2 that would come in under, you know, any basis that would
3 make it an admission.
4 THE COURT: A trier of fact could determine
5 that he makes tacit admissions against interest
6 throughout that tape. It will be up to the jury what
7 weight they give to that testimony, but anything a
8 defendant says to anyone about a crime that that
9 individual is charged with is admissible, anything at
10 all he says to anyone.
11 MR. POOLE: Your Honor, for the point,
12 before the jury comes back --
13 THE COURT: Yeah.
14 MR. POOLE: I'm going to have a motion in
15 regard to all the tapes and her testimony, and I don't
16 know, I can make it now or when --
17 THE COURT: All right.
18 MR. POOLE: Can I make it now?
19 THE COURT: Yeah.
20 MR. POOLE: Your Honor, please the Court,
21 and maybe by the Court's statement you just covered
22 this, but we had objected certainly to the tapes coming
23 in and they have been played for an interminable amount
24 of time, for three to five hours.
25 THE COURT: Five hours is how long it
1667
1 takes.
2 MR. POOLE: Most of the tapes, quite
3 frankly, Your Honor, had nothing to do with the case in
4 which we're trying.
5 When we objected to this, the state urged
6 that this was an admission by silence. There's not a
7 whole lot of law in regard to that now, some old law
8 indicates that maybe there is such a thing as admissions
9 by silence if certain prerogatives or prerequisites are
10 met. First there has to be a statement of fact that
11 you, in fact, did this. The person responding, the
12 declarant, the defendant, Mr. Casteel, would be in a
13 position to know about it. He would be in a position to
14 make a response either to it or deny it or say nothing
15 and his silence might be used against him.
16 Lastly, under all the circumstances, would
17 he make a response in that? I'd say in what you've
18 heard, Your Honor, in all these tapes, there's never a
19 direct statement about any involvement in any murders
20 whatsoever. There is never anything that would call for
21 a response or silence or anything. The only thing we
22 heard, it's almost like a tape recording was put in
23 somebody's bedroom, a couple's bedroom or home. We've
24 heard about arguments, we've heard about beatings, we've
25 heard about fights. All this can be is a character
1668
1 assassination and other misconduct against Mr. Casteel,
2 which is not relevant whatsoever in this case.
3 There was absolutely no reason under the
4 law, under the law of evidence in Tennessee or anywhere
5 else that that tape should have been played.
6 There's an old case of O'Brien versus
7 State, 426 Southwest 2nd 507 that indicates that as a
8 general rule, that we do have admissions by silence, but
9 goes ahead further and states, "Such evidence should be
10 received with great caution." There's a civil case that
11 says, "Look at the probative value."
12 May it please the Court, this evidence is
13 irrelevant, it's immaterial, it's highly prejudicial,
14 serves no probative value whatsoever.
15 Now, the jury now thinks, well, we're
16 dealing I guess with a bad guy, a guy who has an affair,
17 a guy who maybe beats his wife. Maybe there's no
18 evidence of murder, maybe there was nothing on those
19 five hours of tape to indicate any admission at all, but
20 he probably did it.
21 And may it please the Court, based on that,
22 we would move for a mistrial, and I think that there is
23 no way, after listening to those tapes, that Frank
24 Casteel can receive a fair trial.
25 THE COURT: Mr. Poole, you're a very able
1669
1 advocate, as Mr. Lawrence, but obviously you don't see
2 things or hear things against your client that others
3 did.
4 MR. POOLE: Yes, sir.
5 THE COURT: On page 6 of the third
6 transcript --
7 MR. POOLE: Okay.
8 THE COURT: "Frank," near the bottom of the
9 page, "I guess in fighting two women from two
10 directions, both against me and against each other,
11 would probably lend a hand in them making me a guilty
12 person."
13 On page 20 of the same transcript, "Suzie:
14 Frankie, now honestly, I thought that she may be setting
15 you up. Like I said, if you go down, I go down, and I
16 don't want to go down."
17 "Frank: What does that mean?
18 "If they decide to pin that thing on you,
19 however they try to do it, they're going to get me, too.
20 "Frank: I think that we are all just being
21 paranoid. I think we need to" -- they've got "quit"
22 there. That's not the word I heard.
23 And then, of course, when Suzie makes
24 certain statements, like on 22 at the bottom, "I don't
25 think you want me to say what I was saying when you got
1 up."
2 And then the last part of that same
3 paragraph, "The reason you got up from your chair and
4 came over there and did that is because I wouldn't shut
up about something else."
6 All through the thing there are tacit
7 statements made by, and actions by your client. Tacit
8 is expressed or carried on without words or speech.
9 There are tacit admissions against interest by your
10 client.
11 So the tapes are admissible, and you can
12 note an exception.
13 MR. POOLE: So be it, sir.
14 THE COURT: All right. Let the jury come
15 back.
16 MR. COX: Your Honor, we're not going to
17 introduce the clippings. We're going to introduce the
18 note with the clipping and make reference to the fact
19 that clippings were received.
21 (Thereupon, at 2:28 p.m., the jury returned
22 to open court and the following proceedings
23 were had in its presence:)
24 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
25 BY MR. COX:
1671
Hill - Direct
1 Q Ms. Hill, I had -- may I proceed, Your
2 Honor?
3 THE COURT: Yes.
4 Q I had just asked you, I think, before the
5 jury left if you had received -- let me approach -- this
6 item in the mail?
7 A Correct.
8 Q And how long before this conversation on
9 the 12th of October did you receive this envelope?
10 A Probably about a month, that envelope.
11 Q And where did you receive it?
12 A At work.
13 Q And then you, you also indicated, I
14 believe, in your prior testimony there was a note in it
15 and certain newspaper articles, is that correct?
16 A Correct.
17 Q I would like to introduce the articles
18 merely for identification.
20 (Thereupon, Exhibit 79 was

marked for identification.)
21
22 (By Mr. Cox) And what did these articles
23 refer to?
24 A The Signal Mountain murders.
25 Q And were they newspaper articles?
1672
Hill - Direct
1 A They were copies of newspaper articles,
2 yes, sir.
3 Q From when?
4 A From July 1988.
5 Q All right. And again, this was in 1996 --
6 A Correct.
7 Q -- when you received this.
8 Also, was there a little note in there?
9 A Yes. I think, "I think you need to know a
10 few things about your boyfriend, so here are some
11 newspaper clipping to help you out. If you care about
12 your family, keep him away from them."
13 Q Okay. After you had received this a few
14 months before October, did you show it to Mr. Casteel?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Did you discuss it with him at that point
17 in time?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And did you -- first of all, did you know
20 anything about the murders on Signal Mountain when you
21 started going with Mr. Casteel?
22 A No.
23 Q Had you even heard about them or had you
24 heard about them?
25 A The only thing that I recall hearing about
1673
Hill - Direct
1 them was during a political campaign and where two
people running for sheriff, and one of the issues was
3 the fact that the Signal Mountain murders had not been
4 solved.
5 Q And that was --
6 A And I didn't know what the Signal Mountain
murders were.
Q So you'd just heard it during, what, in
9 1996 perhaps? Is that when that was, or was it before
10 then?
11 A I'm not sure.
12 Q All right. So after you received this, I
13 guess this oddity to you, what did you say to Mr.
14 Casteel?
15 A I just asked him about what it meant, what
16 it was.
17 Q What did he say?
18 A He said that there were some men killed on
19 property near his on the mountain, and that he was
20 questioned, as were other people, and that he -- and he
21 even mentioned that Cartter Patten had been questioned.
22 Q All right.
23 A And that he had cooperated with the police,
24 and that was it.
25 Q So you -- and is that what you're talking

Hill - Direct
1 about in this statement when the term "article," you
2 received articles comes up?
3 A That's one of the things.
Q You were talking about this. Would you
5 make this a collective exhibit to your testimony,
6 please?
7 THE COURT: All right. Let it be marked.

marked and filed.)
9
10 Q (By Mr. Cox) All right. Now, sometime
11 after having received this thing in the mail, did you
12 later receive some kind of letter? I know that -- first
13 of all, let me ask you this: Did you, in this
14 statement, these three tapes we listened to, is there a
15 discussion in there about a letter?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And about a letter that you either showed
18 or gave to Mr. Casteel?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And he either gave or showed to Mrs.
21 Casteel?
22 A He showed it to --
23 Q Do you remember that part of the
24 conversation?
25 A Yes.
1675
Hill - Direct
1 Q Well, what is this letter that's being
2 talked about there?
3 A I received it at home. It was typewritten
4 where this looked like stencil, and it said, "Hello,
5 Marie. This is what you've been waiting on. I know
6 you're working with the police to catch Frank Casteel
7 for the murders on the mountain. We were up there
8 camping that weekend," and I can't recall if it says,
9 said, For our anniversary, or not. I may have heard
10 that later. But that did say they were up there camping
11 and that the men came up there on their three-wheelers,
12 and that he shot them with a shotgun because they were
13 disturbing him, and it said, "And then he sent me home."
14 Q All right. Now, when you received this
15 letter at home, was Mr. Casteel there?
16 A He wasn't home when I got the mail, but he
17 came in while I was reading it. I was in the back yard
18 with my little dog. I had taken --
19 Q Were you reading this along with other mail
20 you'd received that day?
21 A Well, I had my mail in the hand, but yes, I
22 was reading it, and he came on in the house and out into
23 the back yard, and he said, "What's wrong?" And I --
24 Q Why would he say, "What's wrong"?
25 A I guess it must have shown on my face or
1676
Hill - Direct
1 something. I mean, you don't just start reading that
2 and not have a reaction, and I handed it to him.
3 Q Before or after you finished reading it?
4 A Before. I was in the, I was in the process
5 of reading it when he came in.
6 Q Okay. But you do recollect that much of
7 what you read in the letter?
8 A Right.
9 Q All right. After you handed it to him,
10 what did he do with it?
11 A Well, he started reading it and he just got
12 real upset, and he said, "Well, this is bogus. This is
13 just completely bogus." And he --
14 Q What do you mean he got upset?
15 A Just agitated, you know, when he started
16 reading it.
17 Q All right.
18 A And he pointed out the signature and it was
19 signed "Boozy," and so anyway, he said, "Do you mind if
20 I take this," or something to that effect. And I said,
21 "It has nothing to" -- "It has nothing to do with me,
22 and as far as that goes, you can take the other thing,
23 too."
24 Q You're talking about this that we just
25 introduced.
1677
Hill - Direct
1 A Right, correct.
Q All right. Well, did he indeed take the
3 letter at that time?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. Show you this envelope. Can you
6 identify that?
7 A That's the envelope that the letter came
8 in.
9 Q This is the envelope that the letter came
10 in. Was it typed like the envelope?
11 A Yes.
12 Q This is what you were reading when Mr.
13 Casteel walked in and you gave it to him?
14 A Correct.
15 Q All right. Now, sometime thereafter,
16 between when you received this letter and when we had
17 this conversation recorded on the 12th of October, you
18 did begin working or allowing your house to be recorded
19 by the police, is that correct?
20 A Yes, just shortly before the 12th. I mean,
21 you know, it could have been the 10th, 11th. It was
22 very --
23 Q And during the conversation that occurred
24 there on the 12th, there is talk about this very letter?
25 A Yes. It indicates he showed it to Suzie
1678
Hill - Direct
1 with my name covered up.
2 Q All right. And so you, when you're talking
3 about the letter that existed and when Suzie's talking
4 about the letter and when Mr. Casteel's talking about
5 the letter, that was the letter that you received that
6 said what again?
7 A It said that he had killed the men with a
8 shotgun for disturbing him on the mountain.
9 Q All right. And what did it say in regard
10 to the writer, the person who had -- say something about
11 going home, "sent me home"?
12 A Oh, it said, "He sent me home."
13 Q All right. So you talked about this in
14 the, in the statement, the three cassettes that we just
15 heard this morning?
16 A Correct.
17 Q That was the topic, part of the topic of
18 the conversation?
19 A Correct.
20 Q All right. Now, after that, did the police
21 say to you, "Well, try to get that letter from him"?
22 A They had asked me if I could get them back
23 when they, when I had told them about it, and I said,
24 "Well, I don't" --
25 Q You told the police -- go ahead.
1679
Hill - Direct
1 A I said, "I just don't know."
And they said, "Well, don't do it, you
3 know, if you're" -- but they had asked me if there was a
4 possibility of getting them back, yes.
5 Q Okay. So did you attempt to do that?
6 A Not at that time. I did --
7 Q Later?
8 A Yes.
9 Q All right. So tell the jury how that went
10 about that you attempted to get this typewritten letter
11 back from Mr. Casteel?
12 A Okay. After the five-hour deal, they both
13 left.
14 Q Mr. and Mrs.
15 A Mr. and Mrs. Casteel.
16 Q Okay.
17 A She left first and then he left shortly
18 thereafter.
19 Q All right.
20 A He came back later that day, and during the
21 course of that conversation, I asked him for the letters
22 back, and first he went out to the car and he brought in
23 the envelope with the newspaper clippings, the
24 stenciled -- the big one.
25 Q The one we just showed to the jury?
1680
Hill - Direct
A Right. And so --
Q And that, I assume, is why you have that,
why we have that, is that correct?
A Correct.
Q All right.
A Then I said, Well, where is, where's the
letter? And so he went back out to his car and he
brought in his briefcase, and he started going through
it, and first he found the envelope for it, and he
handed it to me and then he handed me another sheet of
paper, and I said, "No, this is not it. This is blank."
So he kept looking through there, and he
found the, he found the letter and he gave it to me, and
I had just laid it, you know, when he handed it to me, I
just laid it on the couch as he handed it to me.
Q All right.
A So then he, he asked me for the money back.
He had given me some money to hold in my account that we
were saving for our future, and he asked me to write him
a check back because he felt like he wouldn't see me
anymore.
And so anyway, I wrote him a check, and
when I wrote the check, he questioned the amount, and
when he had given me the money we had both written down
the amount and initialed it so there wouldn't be any
1681
Bill - Direct
1 question at a future time if he wanted the money back
2 about the amount that I was holding.
3 I went out into the other room to get the
4 piece of paper, and while I was gone he took the letter
5 back and substituted in its place the blank piece of
6 paper laying on the couch.
7 Q All right. And is that why we have the
8 envelope and not the letter?
9 A Correct.
10 Q And I think that portion was actually
11 recorded also, is that correct?
12 A Correct.
13 MR. COX: May I approach?
14 THE COURT: Yes.
15 Q (By Mr. Cox) This is a transcript of a
16 tape recording where you're talking about -- what are
17 you talking about?
18 A It's about -- it's when I asked him for the
19 letters back.
20 Q All right. So when you asked him for the
21 letters back, that's even recorded also, is that
22 correct?
23 A Correct.
24 Q Now, did at some point in time after you
25 discovered -- would you make this an exhibit to your
1682
Hill - Direct
1 testimony?
2 THE COURT: Let it be marked.

marked and filed.)
5 Q (By Mr. Cox) At some point in time after
6 you discovered that he had substituted this letter that
7 you were trying to get for the police with a blank piece
8 of paper, did you ask him about that?
9 A Yes, and when I asked him about it, it was
10 over the phone and he acted like he didn't know anything
11 about it. He didn't know what I was talking about. But
12 then he came over again later that day and he told me
13 that he had lied to me twice, and the first was about
14 hitting Suzie, and the second was about taking the
15 letter.
16 Q Okay. And what did he tell you he did with
17 the letter?
18 A He told me it had been burned.
19 Q And why did he tell you he burned it?
20 A Because it had, it said things about him
21 that could be harmful, that could harm him.
22 MR. COX: You may ask.
23 CROSS EXAMINATION
24 BY MR. LAWRENCE:
25 Q Mrs. Hill, I think you revealed finally for
1683
Hill - Cross
1 the jury that you began working for the sheriff's
2 department at some point in time to have your home wired
3 and your telephone wired in order to intercept
4 communications from Frank Casteel for the purpose of
5 recording them?
6 A I began cooperating with them, yes, sir.
7 Q Cooperating in the sense that you allowed
8 them to come in your home and install listening devices?
9 A Correct.
10 Install listening devices on your telephone
11 and in your bedroom?
12 A I don't know where the devices were placed
13 because I went to bed. I felt like I was better off not
14 knowing where the devices were.
15 Q Do you deny, then, that you at one point in
16 time administered a test so they could see how the thing
17 played, and mentioned one in your bedroom?
18 A I don't know that there was ever one in my
19 bedroom.
20 Q All right.
21 A I mean, there may have been but I don't
22 know as a fact that there was.
23 Q You don't recall making mention of that on
24 one of these tapes then, is that right?
25 A I don't recall making a mention of my
1684
Hill - Cross
1 bedroom being, being wired, no.
2 Q You began this relationship --
3 A It may --
4 Q I beg your pardon, I didn't mean to
interrupt.
6 A It may have been. I don't know.
7 Q You're just saying you weren't aware of it,
8 correct?
9 A I'm just saying that when they did put the
10 mechan- -- or the microphones or whatever they were in
11 my house, I told them that I was going to go to bed.
12 felt like it was better for me not to know where they
13 were.
14 Q I think the history between you and Mr.
15 Casteel is that you were friends in junior high school
16 and had some dating relationship then?
17 A Correct.
18 Q And then some 15 years before your last
19 relationship with Mr. Casteel, you rekindled some
20 friendship, is that right?
21 A Well, it was more like twenty years before.
22 Q Okay. And --
23 A And then we kept in touch more or less
24 during a five-year period there.
25 Q What five-year --
1685
Hill - Cross
1 A Off and on. From 20 years ago until 15
2 years ago, off and on we kept in touch, and then
3 didn't hear from him for approximately 15 years until he
4 called two years ago.
5 The relationship 15 years ago, was that a,
6 an intimate relationship then?
7 A No.
8 Q Did you go out with him?
9 A We saw each other some and there was some
10 kissing, but it wasn't an intimate relationship and we
11 didn't go out.
12 Q How long did that relationship last?
13 A A few months.
14 Q You knew he was married at the time?
15 A Right, and that was the reason the
16 relationship didn't go on.
17 Q But you had a, a friendship, then, for a
18 couple of months and you broke it off because he was
19 married?
20 A Right.
21 Q And then some 15 years after that, there
22 was an occasion when you had some meeting with him, some
23 encounter, is that right?
24 A He called me, yes.
25 Q Called you on the telephone. What was the
1686
Hill - Cross
conversation?
2 A More or less to the effect that he'd gone
3 to work near where I worked, and just called to say hi,
4 I guess. I mean, you know, it wasn't a lot to it. It
5 was tax season and he let me know that he had gone to
6 work near where I worked.
7 Q And when was it that you and he began to go
8 out and have meals together and --
9 A It was after tax season. It would have
10 been during the summer.
11 Q Well, after tax season, would that be
12 accurate?
13 A After April 15th, April 30th.
14 Q Okay.
15 A Going into the summer.
16 Q All right. So during the end of April,
17 May, June and July, you and he began to see each other
18 more frequently?
19 A Right.
20 Q When did you start to have a physical
21 relationship with Mr. Casteel?
22 A After the class reunion.
23 Q And when was that?
24 A August the 8th, I think.
25 Q August the Bth of 1986. And did you have
1687
Hill - Cross
1 that physical relationship with Mr. Casteel in your
2 home?
3 A Yes.
Q You say that the relationship continued,
5 then, from August -- well, actually from whenever it
6 began until February of 1997?
7 A We were in contact during that time, yes.
8 Q All right. When did the physical
9 relationship end, Ms. Hill?
10 A Probably about November.
11 Q So at the time in October when you have Mr.
12 and Mrs. Casteel in your home recording this
13 conversation for the benefit of the police, you're still
14 having a physical relationship with Mr. Casteel on into
15 November?
16 A Correct.
17 Q Did you tell Mr. Casteel you loved him?
18 A Possibly.
19 Q What do you mean, "possibly"?
20 A Well--
21 Q Did you or did you not?
22 A I don't know whether I actually said it or
23 not at that time.
24 Q At any time, did --
25 A I have, yes, I did at sometime, yes.
1688
Hill - Cross
1 Q At what point in time did you tell Mr.
2 Casteel you loved him?
A When we started having an intimate
4 relationship.
5 Q Was that in August?
6 A It would have been sometime in August, yes.
7 Q And when did you stop loving Mr. Casteel?
8 A I guess when I felt like that he had done
9 this.
10 Q And when did you feel like he had done
11 this, Ms. Hill?
12 A When he told me he had burned the letter.
13 That's what convinced me.
14 Q And you continued to have a physical
15 relationship with him after that?
16 A Yes.
17 Q So you didn't love him, you continued to
18 have a physical relationship with him, and the reason
19 that you wanted to is because of your association with
20 the police and your endeavor to be a spy or whatever to
21 get this information?
22 A I guess, yes, sir.
23 Q Did you have some profit motive?
24 A No.
25 Q Just a good citizen?
1689
Hill - Cross
1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Just doing your civic duty?
3 A I wanted to know the truth.
4 Q Well, you didn't love him? What difference
5 did it make?
6 A It just made a difference, because in a way
7 I did. I was hoping it wouldn't be true.
8 Q Are you telling this jury that you're in
9 love with a man that you disbelieve because he burned a
10 letter, you record this heart-breaking conversation
11 between him and his wife, that's the man you love?
12 A At the time of the five-hour conversation,
13 I recorded it because I wanted to hear what she had to
14 say and I wanted the truth.
15 Q Well, there are interludes --
16 A To know the truth.
17 Q I beg your pardon. You finish, please.
18 A I said I wanted to know the truth.
19 Q At interludes throughout this conversation
20 where you keep -- the truth about what?
21 A Whether or not he had done it.
22 Q Did you feel sympathy for Mrs. Casteel
23 there?
24 A Yes.
25 Q You didn't show it, did you?
1690
Hill - Cross
1 A I told her I could understand how she felt.
2 Q Well, your motive was to get information,
3 your motive was to try to wrest and wring some
4 information out that could be used against Mr. Casteel.
5 A My motive was to listen and try to hear the
6 truth.
7 Q You got some pleasure out of this, didn't
8 you?
9 A No, sir, I did not.
10 Q You didn't?
11 A No, sir.
12 Q You didn't think this was a lark?
13 A No, sir.
14 Q You didn't find some humor in all of that?
15 A No, sir. It was a tedious ordeal.
16 Q Okay. Difficult for you to do?
17 A Yes, and I was scared.
18 Q Upset?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Could we have the tape recorder brought
21 out, please?
22 MR. COX: May we approach?
1691
2 MR. COX: You haven't offered us anything.
3 MR. LAWRENCE: I'm going to play a tape
4 that you made, you gave me.
5 MR. COX: Well, you want to tell us what
6 you're playing, what tape? Is it the same tape we just
7 played?
8 THE COURT: Is it the same tape?
9 MR. LAWRENCE: No, it's not the same tape.
10 MR. COX: We would like to know what you're
11 doing, that's all. You know, there's a, the way you
12 want to do it is show us what you're going to introduce,
13 and we have an opportunity to object.
14 MR. LAWRENCE: This is to impeach her
15 credibility, Your Honor.
16 MR. DAVIS: What conversation is it?
17 MR. LAWRENCE: P-11.
18 MR. DAVIS: Is it a telephone call from the
19 Krystal or --
20 MR. LAWRENCE: No, it's not, it's a --
21 MR. COX: Well, we would like a jury-out.
22 We don't know what, you know, we don't know who the
23 conversation is or what it's --
24 THE COURT: Who's on there?
25 MR. LAWRENCE: She is on there.
1692
1 THE COURT: Who is she talking to?
2 MR. LAWRENCE: I don't know who she's
3 talking to. She's talking to somebody else.
4 MR. COX: We object unless she's talking to
5 the defendant.
6 MR. LAWRENCE: Why would it make a
7 difference whether she's -- I'm talking about her
8 credibility, not the defendant's.
9 MR. COX: I don't know what it says.
10 want a jury-out.
11 THE COURT: Well, he's got a right to do
12 i t.
13 MR. COX: I want a jury-out hearing.
14 don't know what's on the tape.
17 were had in the presence and hearing of
18 the jury:)
19 THE COURT: Jurors, if you would, step in
20 the jury room for a moment.
24 THE COURT: All right. The jurors are in
25 the jury room, the door is closed. Do you have the
1693
1 tape?
2 MR. LAWRENCE: Yes, sir. I've got it but I
don't want the witness in here.
4 THE COURT: Okay. If you would, step out
5 into the hall.
6 MR. LAWRENCE: And I would like the door to
7 be closed so that -- I have another question to ask this
8 witness before I play the tape.
9 THE COURT: Yeah, she can wait in the, in
10 the conference room out there. There's a chair in
11 there.
12 Something else that everyone in the
13 courtroom should be aware of: When you go out of the
14 courtroom, the air conditioning is leaking water, so you
15 have to be very careful when you go out the door because
16 we don't want anybody falling on that hard stone.
17 (Thereupon, the witness was excused from
18 open court and the following proceedings
19 were had in her absence:)
20 THE COURT: Okay. And now Mrs. Hill is out
21 of the courtroom.
22 MR. LAWRENCE: And as a preface to playing
23 this tape, I had another question to ask Ms. Hill --
24 THE COURT: Okay.
25 MR. LAWRENCE: -- where she made a prior
1694
1 inconsistent statement in her sworn testimony in this
2 court on November 25, 1997.
3 THE COURT: Okay.
4 MR. LAWRENCE: I don't know how to operate
5 this.
THE COURT: No, Ms. Loftin will do it for
7 you.
8 MR. LAWRENCE: You can skip that maybe a
9 minute. You want to hear that several times?
10 MR. COX: Yes, sir.
11 THE COURT: That's just her greeting on her
12 answering machine.
13 MR. LAWRENCE: That's fine, we'll listen to
14 it.
15 (Thereupon, the tape, Exhibit 93, was
16 played in open court in the absence of the
17 jury.)
18 THE COURT: Is there more to it, Mr.
19 Lawrence, or is that it?
20 MR. LAWRENCE: That's it I think.
21 THE COURT: Okay.
22 MR. LAWRENCE: That's it.
23 THE COURT: State want to be heard?
24 MR. COX: Do you have a date of that
25 recording?
1695
1 MR. LAWRENCE: I got this from you, Mr.
2 Cox. I don't know. It's your investigation, not mine.
MR. COX: We don't think it's relevant to
4 anything, Your Honor. It's hearsay. It doesn't have
5 anything to do with the defendant.
6 THE COURT: No, it's relevant. He can ask.
7 I mean, he can play that and he can ask her about the
8 tape.
9 Anything else before we bring her back in?
10 MR. DAVIS: Your Honor, just for
11 clarification then, if she could be given the
12 opportunity to explain when the date of this is.
13 THE COURT: Yeah. Sure.
14 MR. DAVIS: The jury can place it in the
15 proper context.
16 THE COURT: If he doesn't, then in redirect
17 you can ask her. And you do, you have transcripts?
18 MR. LAWRENCE: Yes, sir, I do.
19 THE COURT: Okay. Anything else before the
20 jury comes back in? Let her come in first.
21 (Thereupon, the witness returned to open
22 court.)
23 THE COURT: Okay. Let the jury come back.
1696
2 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Lawrence.
3 MR. LAWRENCE: Thank you, Your Honor.
4 CROSS EXAMINATION (Continued)
5 BY MR. LAWRENCE:
6 Q Mrs. Hill, do you recall testifying in a
7 hearing in this Court on November 25, 1997?
A Yes, I guess. I mean, I don't know the --
9 Q Do you recall that Mr. Don Poole stood at
10 this lectern and asked you questions under oath?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 Q You do remember that?
13 A' Yes, sir.
14 Q Do you remember him asking you this
15 question: "Okay. Were you coached and so forth about
16 how you should ask Mr. Casteel questions about the
17 Signal Mountain homicides?" Do you recall what your
18 answer was?
19 A I don't think I was coached.
20 Q Was your answer no?

1
21 A I assume. I would say no now.
22 Q Do you recall him repeating the question,
23 "Were you told in any way what you should do or say?"
24 What was your answer under oath on that occasion, Ms.
25 Hill?
1697
Hill - Cross
1 MR. COX: Your Honor, I object to this form
2 of cross examination. Is he testing her memory here or
3 does he want to ask her a question? This is not proper
impeachment.
5 THE COURT: Yeah.
6 MR. LAWRENCE: I'm asking her a question,
7 Your Honor.
8 THE COURT: Well --
9 Q (By Mr. Lawrence) Were you coached?
10 A I was told to continue the relationship.
11 Q Were you coached? The question was, "Were
12 you told in any way what you should do or say?"
13 A Just act the same.
14 Q Do you recall how you responded to that
15 question on that occasion, that you were or were not
16 coached, Ms. Hill?
17 A Well, that's not coaching, is it?
18 Q I don't know what coaching is. I'm
19 asking -- what did you think coaching was?
20 A I don't know.
21 Q Were you, were you coached?
22 A I mean, when they would send me -- I was
23 told some things to try to ask and some things not to
24 ask when I met with Suzie.
25 Q But not Mr. Casteel?
1698
Hill - Cross
1 A I don't think I was told specifically to
2 ask him anything.
3 Q Were you told to lie to him?
4 A No, I don't think so.
5 Q Did you?
6 A In the fact that I carried on the
7 relationship.
8 Q Pretending to have some affection for him?
9 A Correct.
10 Q Now, the occasion when the meeting took
11 place at your home, that is, the situation where Mrs.
12 Casteel came over at, what was it, three in the morning?
13 A 2:30 or 3.
14 Q Stayed there all night, chock kept chiming
15 all night long?
16 A Correct.
17 Q How long had Mr. Casteel been there on that
18 occasion?
19 A Been there all night.
20 Q Had he been there all the night prior to
21 the time Mrs. Casteel arrived?
22 A You mean -- he had been there all night,
23 yes.
24 What time had he arrived?
25 A I don't know exactly. Probably after work.
1699
Hill - Cross
1 Q So he would have arrived -- this was taped
on the 12th, which was starting in the early morning
3 hours, and he had been there with you from after work
4 until 2:30 or so?
5 A I don't know exactly when he arrived, but
6 he was there when she got there and he had been there.
7 We were, we were together, yes.
8 Q Had you had some sexual contact that night?
9 A I don't know if we had that night or not.
10 Q Wouldn't have been unusual, would it?
11 A No.
12 Q And you testified earlier that you found no
13 humor in what you did, is that correct?
14 A No, it wasn't humorous.
15 Q All right. May I pass out these
16 transcripts, Your Honor?
17 THE COURT: All right. And, again, jurors,
18 the tape that you hear is the, the evidence that you
19 have to consider. The transcript merely is an aid to
20 you, but go by what you hear and not necessarily what
21 you read. Read, if you read something and it's not the
22 same as you hear, go on what you hear on the tape.
23 MR. LAWRENCE: Is there enough, Luther?
24 MR. COX: Your Honor, may we approach the
25 bench?
1700
Hill - Cross
6 MR. COX: I think he has to first establish
7 if this witness somehow in this proof when this was.
8 He's trying to impeach her as to a point in time when a
9 conversation was had, which was October the 12th. Now,
10 if this conversation occurred some weeks or sometime
11 after that, I don't see how that's proper for
12 impeachment. I think that's what we have here, and he
13 hasn't laid any foundation for the introduction of this
14 through this witness. He hasn't even authenticated it,
15 he hasn't even authenticated it as even being from her.
16 THE COURT: Well, just from the tape I
17 heard, she's laughing, and what Mr. Lawrence is trying
18 to bring out, that he asked her if this was humorous,
19 and so he has a right to.
20 MR. COX: Well, my understanding of the
21 question was, he's talking about the conversation that
22 was had on the 12th of October.
23 MR. LAWRENCE: I'm talking about any of the
24 process. That was my question.
25 MR. COX: Let me finish. If it became
1701
Hill - Cross
1 humorous to her after she left this man three weeks
2 later, then 1 don't think that's relevant.
3 THE COURT: That's for argument.
4 MR. COX: Okay.
5 THE COURT: Yeah.
9 the jury:)
10 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Lawrence.
11 Q (By Mr. Lawrence) You recall that after
12 you had this meeting with Mr. Casteel and his wife, that
13 at sometime some clothing was deposited on the front
14 porch of your home by Mrs. Casteel or someone?
15 A Yes, Mrs. --
16 Q How soon after that encounter on the early
17 morning hours of the, of October 12 did his clothing
18 appear on your front porch?
19 A Within a month.
20 Q You don't know the precise date?
21 A Sir?
22 Q You don't know the date?
23 A No, sir.
24 Q Okay. Would you play this tape?
25 MR. COX: Again, that's our objection as to
1702
Hill - Cross
1 the time, Your Honor, the relevance of this particular
2 tape.
3 THE COURT: All right. You can note an
exception.
5 (Thereupon, the tape, Exhibit 93, was
6 played in open court in the presence and
7 hearing of the jury.)
8 Q (By Mr. Lawrence) What was the joke? Was
9 the joke the fact that this woman whose heart was broken
10 brought her husband's clothes up there and put them on
11 your front porch? Is that what you found so funny, Ms.
12 Hill?
13 A I just found, I don't know, that it had
14 worked what they wanted to do.
15 Q I'm sorry? You didn't have any compassion,
16 did you? Even the police officer said, "You ought to
17 have a little compassion."
18 You said, "I do?" Recall saying that?
19 A It's on the tape.
20 Q You don't recall it? You recall having any
21 compassion?
22 A I felt sorry for her during that five-hour
23 conversation.
24 Q It didn't sound like it on that tape, did
25 it?
1703
Hill - Cross
1 A No, sir.
2 Q How long did you have Mr. Casteel taped in
3 your home and in your car and at your office and other
4 places?
5 A Over about a five-month period.
6 Q At any time during the five-month period of
7 time, did Mr. Casteel say anything at all that indicated
8 he had any involvement in the murders of those men on
9 Signal Mountain?
10 A No, he denied it.
11 Q Look here. He never said a word that he
12 had any involvement at all in those murders. See all
13 those tapes, Ms. Hill?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Did you ever talk to anybody about a
16 reward?
17 A My neighbor said something about getting a
18 reward.
19 Q That interest you?
20 A I told her I didn't know anything about a
21 reward.
22 Q Are you saying in 1988 that you didn't know
23 about the murders on Signal Mountain?
24 A No, sir.
25 Q You don't take the newspaper?
1704
Hill - Cross
1 A I took the newspaper but I never read it in
2 depth and I didn't watch television.
3 Q In depth. Did you read the headlines?
4 A Possibly, but I didn't recall anything
5 about it.
6 Q Did you watch television?
7 A No.
8 Q Did you not talk to your neighbors? Did
9 you not talk to people on the street and people at work?
10 A I talked to people at work but it was about
11 business.
12 Q And the fact that this was on national
13 television, and the fact it was on the news day after
14 day after day after this, while this search was going on
15 and after these bodies were found, you never heard a
16 word about it?
17 A I didn't watch TV.
18 Q And when you met Frank Casteel and you went
19 to this class reunion and he was a suspect at that time
20 and the cloud of suspicion hung over this man's head,
21 nobody at that class reunion said anything about that
22 when his name had been in the newspapers?
23 A No, sir, they didn't.
24 Q And the first time that you had any
25 suspicion at all that Frank Casteel was being pointed at
1705
Hill - Cross
1 for this crime was when you got these bogus letters in
2 the mail?
3 A The first time was when I got a phone call,
4 and then got those in the mail.
5 Q Is that when those wheels started turning
6 and you decided to use your body to try to get
7 information for your own advantage?
8 A I didn't decide that.
9 Q Well, you continued to have a physical
10 relationship, a loving relationship with this man and
11 continued to tape him and laugh about his plight, did
12 you not?
13 A Well, here we did.
14 Q That wasn't the only time you laughed about
15 it, was it, Ms. Hill?
16 A I don't know.
17 Q How many other men were you dating at the
18 time?
19 A He was the only one I was seeing at that
20 time.
21 What about Larry Parker?
22 A I was hoping to get back with him after
23 this was over.
24 Q Had him sort of waiting, he was on a shelf
25 just waiting for you to do whatever you had to do with
1706
Hill - Cross
1 Mr. Casteel, then you were going to go back with him,
2 right?
3 A Yes.
4 Q You lied to Mr. Casteel, didn't you?
5 A Yes.
6 Q You lied to Suzie Casteel, didn't you?
7 A Just to try to get information, yes.
8 Q Didn't bother you to lie, did it?
9 A Not when that was the purpose.
10 Q Not when you were doing your duty as a
11 citizen?
12 A I was cooperating with the police.
13 Q You went to the police or they came to you,
14 Ms. Hill?
15 A They came to me.
16 Q They put you up to this?
17 A They asked me to continue the relationship
18 with Frank to get information.
19 MR. LAWRENCE: No questions.
20 THE COURT: For the state.
21 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. COX:
23 , Q That's right. When you got this letter in
24 the mail, you didn't go to the police at that point in
25 time, did you?
1.707
Hill - Redirect
1 A No.
2 Q You never --
3 MR. LAWRENCE: He can't -- I'm objecting to
4 his leading. He can, he can directly examine this
5 woman. He can't get up there and rehabilitate her by
6 stating things he wants her to agree with.
7 THE COURT: No, you can't lead, but he can
preface a question with a statement of testimony that's
9 already been given by the witness.
10 Q (By Mr. Cox) You got involved with this
11 when the police came and asked you for your help, is
12 that correct?
13 A That's correct.
14 Q Did you ever set out to set up Mr. Casteel?
15 A No.
16 Q You didn't know until the, you got this --
17 MR. LAWRENCE: Your Honor, that's a leading
18 question and I object to it. He's done it repeatedly
19 through the trial.
20 MR. COX: rephrase it.
21 Q (By Mr. Cox) Did you know before you got
22 this letter in the mail, this note in the mail, that he
23 was involved at all?
24 A No.
25 Q And sometime later did something happen,
1708
Hill - Redirect
1 the police come to you?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And they asked you to help?
4 A They asked me to help.
5 Q Did you readily agree to?
6 A I told them I wanted to know the truth,
7 yes.
8 Q All right. And did you want to know the
9 truth?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did you find out the truth?
12 A I feel like I did.
13 Q And this conversation we just heard, that
14 was a month after you found out the truth?
15 A Yes.
16 MR. COX: That's all. Thank you.
17 THE COURT: Mr. Lawrence.
18 RECROSS EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. LAWRENCE:
20 Q How'd the police know to get in touch with
21 you, Ms. Hill? What'd they tell you?
22 A They told me that they had had a call.
23 Q They tell you they'd been following Frank
24 Casteel for ten years?
25 A No.
1709
Hill - Recross
1 Q Or eight years at that time?
2 A No.
3 Q Dogging his heels everywhere he went?
4 MR. COX: She said no, Your Honor.
5 A No.
6 Q (By Mr. Lawrence) Did they tell you what
7 all they knew about Frank Casteel, his comings and
8 goings?
9 A No.
10 Q You afraid of this man?
11 A Yes.
12 Q You knew he was a murderer then, right?
13 A No.
14 Q That's what you're telling this jury.
15 A I mean, I didn't, I didn't ever know-know.
16 I felt like once he burned that letter, yes, I felt like
17 he was a murderer, that and my --
18 Q And you kept sleeping with him? You kept
19 having sex with him?
20 A I kept seeing him because they wanted the
21 relationship continued, but I had protection.
22 Q Answer my question: You kept sleeping and
23 having sex with him, right?
24 A Yes.
25 Q This murderer?
1710
Hill - Recross
1 A Yes.
2 Q They, the police weren't in bed with you,
3 were they?
4 A No.
5 MR. COX: Nothing further, Your Honor.
6 MR. LAWRENCE: That's all.
7 THE COURT: Anything further? Anything
8 further for the state?
9 MR. COX: Nothing.
10 THE COURT: All right. Ms. Hill, you are
11 free to go. You can have a seat in the courtroom or you
12 can leave the building if you would like.
13 (Witness excused.)
14 THE COURT: Who's your next witness?
15 MR. DAVIS: We take a five-minute break
16 before our next witness? We have to review something
17 with the Court.
18 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Jurors, if
19 you would step back in the jury room.
20 (Thereupon , at 3:31 p.m., the jury was
23 THE COURT: All right. The jury is back in
24 the jury room and the door is closed.
25 MR. DAVIS: Steve Craig is going to be our
1711
1 last witness, Your Honor, and counsel has filed a motion
2 in limine regarding his testimony.
4 MR. DAVIS: So we just need to have a brief
5 jury-out hearing, if we could have Steve Craig brought
6 i n.
7 STEVE CRAIG,
8 called as a witness, having been first duly sworn, was
9 examined and testified as follows:
10 MR. DAVIS: Your Honor, if we could
11 proceed?
14 BY MR. DAVIS:
15 Q Mr. Craig, this is a jury-out hearing for
16 Judge Meyer's benefit to rule on your admissibility to
17 testify in front of the jury, so if you could please
18 identify yourself for the record?
19 A My name is Steve Craig.
20 Q All right. And, Mr. Craig, taking a look
21 at the television monitor, do you recognize that
22 photograph?
23 A Yes, I do. That's the blue hole up on
24 Signal Mountain.
25 Q Okay. Did you have an opportunity to go to
1712
Craig - Voir Dire/Davis
1 the blue hole at approximately May 1st of 1988?
2 A I believe it was around May 1st when --
3 Q All right. Let me show you --
4 A -- I went up there.
5 Q Let me show you Exhibit 1, which is a
6 logbook, and ask you if you can take a look at that?
7 A That's my name.
8 Q All right.
9 A It's not my handwriting.
10 Q Okay. Could you explain?
11 A Allen Williams is a friend of mine that was
12 with me when I was up there that day.
13 Q All right. And around this date, May 1st
14 of '88, did you have an occasion to be up going to the
15 blue hole with Allen Williams when you came into contact
16 with Mr. Casteel?
17 A I went up there that day to go swimming.
18 Q Okay. And did you run into Mr. Casteel up
19 there that day?
20 A Yes, sir, I did.
21 Q All right. And could you tell us, just
22 tell Judge Meyer very briefly what happened?
23 A He had walked up to us carrying a rifle and
24 he was calm, the muzzle on the rifle was pointing
25 towards the ground.
1713
1 Q Okay.
A And we had a conversation with him.
3 Q Okay. Did he -- what I'm asking you is,
4 did he explain to you some rules about if you wanted to
5 come back, what you should do?
6 A Yes, he did. He told us we could swim that
7 day, and he gave us a garbage bag.
Q Okay.
9 A And he asked us to fill the garbage bag up.
10 I thought that'd be great. You know, it's a pretty
11 place. I don't like to see trash lying around in the
12 woods.
13 Q Sure. All right. And so there was no
14 anger between you and Mr. Casteel, is that fair to say?
15 A Not whatsoever.
16 Q All right. And did you go back on July
17 6th?
18 A Yes, I did.
19 Q 1988. Let me show you the logbook entry
20 110 and ask you to read that to yourself.
21 A That's the way it was.
22 Q Okay. So on July 6th, 1988, did you have a
23 conversation with Mr. Casteel at his campsite?
24 A Yes, I did.
25 Q Could you relate to Judge Meyer the
1714
1 substance of that conversation?
2 A We were sitting at the blue hole and we
3 were -- I was talking to Mr. Casteel. It was a
4 friendly, polite conversation, and I'd asked him how
5 much trouble he had from people when he tried to run
6 them off the land, and he got a look in his eyes like he
7 was crazy, and he says, "People like you driving trucks
8 I generally don't have a problem with," he said, "But
9 people riding them goddamn four-wheelers, I'll shoot one
10 of them bastards if I have to."
11 And I remember that just, it sounded so
12 strong, the look in his eyes, it just, it kind of scared
13 me.
14 MR. DAVIS: Okay. That's all.
15 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Poole or Mr.
16 Lawrence?
18 BY MR. POOLE:
19 Q Sir, on that occasion, were you with your
20 friend, too, July the 6th?
21 A I was with a different friend that day.
22 Q Okay. Had you called to go up there?
23 A Yes, I had. He gave me permission.
24 Q Okay. And had he given you his number and
25 everything to call on May 1 how to get in touch with
1715
Craig - Voir Dire/Poole
1 him?
2 A Yes, he did.
3 Q Okay. Were there signs up there that you
4 saw, Steven, that said you could call him?
5 A I don't remember any signs with his phone
6 number on it. He had wrote down his phone number and
7 gave it to me.
8 Q So you didn't see any no-trespassing or
9 call Frank Casteel or any signs like that up there?
10 A I don't really remember. It was ten years
11 ago. I don't remember about signs.
12 Q Did you give a statement to the police back
13 in that, at that time?
14 A No, sir, I didn't.
15 Q All right. How did they know, how are you
16 here today? Other than getting in your car and getting
17 down , here, how did they know about you?
18 A From that logbook.
19 Q Okay. What, did somebody call you about
20 this?
21 A The district attorney's office called me
22 about that.
23 Q And when did they do that, sir?
24 A It's been approximately three months ago, I
25 guess.
1716
Craig - Voir Dire/Poole
1 Q Okay. Certainly nothing in here about the
2 conversation. It just says that you called to ask
3 permission to swim, you drove your Bronco into the power
4 line with friend and perhaps another, and then talks
5 about what color vehicle you have and what your license
6 number is.
7 A (Witness nods head up and down.)
Q And, but you are saying today that this
9 statement about three-wheelers or four-wheelers was made
10 to you?
11 A Yes, it was.
12 Q Did he have a weapon on that occasion, sir?
13 A Yes, he did.
14 Q What kind of weapon was it?
15 A It was a sidearm pistol. I don't know
16 what --
17 Q The 6th of July?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay. And on the other occasion there was
20 a rifle, you say, sir?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 MR. POOLE: Your Honor, for the purposes of
23 the hearing, that's all the questions I have, sir.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
25 FURTHER VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
1717
Craig - Further Voir Dire/Davis
1 BY MR. DAVIS:
2 Q I've got one followup question: Just,
3 counsel asked you about when you first were contacted.
4 Do you remember me coming out at your place of work?
5 Would it refresh your memory if I were to tell you it
6 was about a year ago I came out to your place of work
7 and had a discussion with you about the logbook?
8 A I guess it could have been that long. I
9 remember you coming out to the work and talking to y'all
10 several times.
11 MR. DAVIS: Okay.
12 THE COURT: All right. Do you want to be
13 heard?
14 MR. POOLE: No.
15 THE COURT: All right. Let the jury --
16 MR. LAWRENCE: You want to make an
17 objection?
18 MR. POOLE: Yes, sir. I think I have
19 something else.
21 MR. POOLE: Your Honor, just one more time,
22 cite State versus Hicks. In that case the appellate
23 court looked with approval on the fact that on the 24th
24 day of December, Mr. Hicks, the defendant, says while
25 holding a knife, he was going to stick someone before
1718
1 the night was over, look with approval in ruling that
2 that was not a state of mind exception, that that should
3 not come in.
4 At the trial stage, the ruling was reversed
5 when it was found out that the statement that he was
6 going to stick someone took place 20 to 30 minutes prior
7 to the killing. The trial court overruled the
8 objection. The Court of Appeals said the previous
9 ruling was based upon the belief that the statement was
10 removed in time by as much as a day from the killing.
11 The presumption was incorrect, the evidence was
12 admissible to show state of mind since it only took
13 place 20 minutes before.
14 Your Honor, this statement is the July the
15 6th, certainly more than Hicks, which was one day,
16 approvingly, the Court of Appeals, the Supreme Court
17 approved indicating that that shows state of mind was
18 too great a period of time. Certainly this would be too
19 great a period of time.
20 THE COURT: Under the state of mind
21 exception, it would be.
22 MR. DAVIS: Right. We're not offering it
23 for state --
24 THE COURT: But they're not going under
25 state of mind.
1719
1 MR. DAVIS: And for the Court's benefit, we
2 are relying on motive and identity and the previously
3 filed memorandum of law addresses that.
4 MR. POOLE: Your Honor, the state of mind
5 or the motive and identity, that had to do with the
6 404(b) objections. This has to do with hearsay
7 statements and getting in and what is an exception to
8 the hearsay rule. Motive and identity is not an
9 exception to the hearsay rule.
10 THE COURT: Well, Mr. Poole, if you're not
11 successful in the trial, you'll have an opportunity to
12 discuss that with the Court of Criminal Appeals, but
13 I've read Hicks several times and I do not come away
14 with the same opinion you do.
15 I've also read that article in the
16 Tennessee Law Review several times in which they set out
17 the different exceptions, and I have no problem with my
18 ruling.
19 MR. POOLE: I understand. Your Honor, I
20 want to cross-examine -- and let me just bring this up
21 with the Court at this time -- Detective Sneed, a few
22 more, with a few more questions concerning that
23 out-of-the-jury hearing concerning the motion to
24 suppress, and if this is the last witness, I don't know
25 if he's available, we could do it now, or wait or what.
1720
1 Is he here?
2 MR. DAVIS: Yeah.
3 THE COURT: Sneed's around somewhere.
4 MR. POOLE: Okay. We can do it whenever
5 the Court -- I just need about five minutes, if we could
6 do it while this witness goes out or whatever.
7 MR. COX: You want to do what?
8 MR. POOLE: We objected, we had a motion to
9 suppress concerning when the fire pit was searched and
10 things of this nature. I just wanted to ask him a few
11 more questions about that.
12 MR. COX: I think the Court ruled on that
13 when the evidence went in.
14 MR. POOLE: You asked for it to go in, it
15 certainly went in.
16 MR. COX: Don't you have a ruling on that
17 motion?
18 MR. POOLE: Right, and the Court said we
19 could go into more things if we discovered any more
20 evidence, I think.
21 THE COURT: Yeah.
22 MR. DAVIS: What I would suggest, Your
23 Honor, is that --
24 THE COURT: Well, let's finish this witness
25 and then you can call.
1721
1 MR. DAVIS: Well, actually, Your Honor, if
2 we could do it this way: We're going to rest after this
3 witness. If they have brought forth some evidence
4 during their case, we'll have Mr. Sneed available any
5 time they want him.
6 MR. POOLE: I just didn't want to waive
7 anything. I guess I'd rather do it since it was
8 cross-examination.
9 Your Honor, we did have one more thing with
10 Mr. Sneed indicating that we would like to put a lot of
11 statements in concerning investigation --
12 THE COURT: I indicated that you could
13 recall him for cross-examination, so they can.
14 MR. DAVIS: All right.
15 THE COURT: But let's let the jury come
16 back and hear this witness.
20 MR. POOLE: While the jury is coming in,
21 could we just approach the bench a second?
1722
1 THE COURT: I tell you the way I want to
2 handle about Sneed is that you have the right under
cross-examination to call him back, but let's do it
Monday. I'd rather finish this witness.
MR. POOLE: That's fine.
6 THE COURT: And even if the state closes,
7 you still reserve that right.
8 MR. LAWRENCE: Sure. That's fine.
9 THE COURT: And let's take these people out
10 there to see the ATVs and all.
11 MR. POOLE: Could we bring up one more
12 objection? Lee asked this witness about Casteel and
13 what he said and he said he looked crazy. I would like
14 to object to what he looked like at this point in time.
15 MR. DAVIS: That's his demeanor.
16 THE COURT: That's something a lay witness
17 can state, and you've got the right to cross-examine him
18 about it.
22 the jury:)
23 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Davis.
24 MR. DAVIS: Thank you, Your Honor.
25 DIRECT EXAMINATION
1723
Craig - Direct
1 BY MR. DAVIS:
2 Q Mr. Craig, you've been previously sworn,
3 but if you could, introduce yourself to the men and
4 women on the jury, please?
5 A My name is Steve Craig.
6 Q And where do you live, Mr. Craig?
7 A I live here in Chattanooga.
8 Q And what do you do for a living?
9 A I'm a pressman.
10 Q Okay. And in 1988, did you live here in
11 Hamilton County?
12 A I've lived here since I was seven or eight
13 years old.
14 Q All right. Are you familiar with the blue
15 hole, picture of which is on that television set?
16 A Yes, I am.
17 Q All right. How many times have you gone
18 there over the years, do you think?
19 A There's no telling. I've been up there a
20 bunch.
21 Q Okay. In the summer of 1988, did you go up
22 to the blue hole?
23 A Yes, I did.
24 Q All right. Did you come across or have an
25 encounter with Mr. Casteel in May of 1988?
1724
Craig - Direct
A Yes, I did.
2 Q All right. And during -- where were you
3 actually physically on the property?
4 A There was a gate on the trail. If I
5 remember right, we were right close to that gate.
6 Q Okay. You were in an area known as the
7 gate on the Helican Road?
8 A Right.
9 Q All right. And at some point, did Mr.
10 Casteel explain to you the rules by which you could have
11 access to the blue hole?
12 A Yes, he did, and I agreed with his rules.
13 Q Okay. Fair enough. What were those rules?
14 A He wanted us to pick up garbage around the
15 blue hole area, and I thought that was fine because I
16 didn't like seeing the garbage there in the first place.
17 Q Okay. And on that May day, was he armed?
18 A Yes, he was. He was carrying a rifle that
19 day.
20 Q And did you at some point record, have --
21 was your name recorded in his logbook?
22 A I did not write it in there myself.
23 Q Okay.
24 A He had wrote it down himself.
25 Q Okay. And if I show you this, is your name
1725
Craig - Direct
recorded there by May 1st?
A That's my name and a friend's and his
vehicle.
Q Okay. And that's your companion, Allen
Williams?
A Yes.
Q All right. And after that May 1st date,
did you go back up to the blue hole on any occasion that
summer?
A I went up there, I guess it was July 6th.
Q Okay. And did you call ahead as requested
before you went up there?
A Yes, I did. I went up there playing by his
rules.
Q Okay. Fair enough. And what did you do
when you got there?
I went to the blue hole and went swimming.
All right. And did you have a good time?
A Had a ball.
Q Okay. And at some point did you have a
conversation with Mr. Casteel on the bank by the blue
hole?
Later that afternoon, him and his family
showed up down there.
Q All right. Could you relate to the jury
1726
Craig - Direct
1 the substance of that conversation?
2 A I asked Mr. Casteel if he had problems out
3 of people when he tried to run them off the land up
4 there, because I knew a lot of people liked to go up
5 there, it was a popular place, and he told me that
6 people like me that drove trucks up there he generally
7 didn't have a problem with. They would come into his
8 barricades and they would turn around and they would go
9 back.
10 And he told me with a real crazy look in
11 his eyes, you know, I can't explain the look in his
12 eyes, the empty, deep look, and he said, "Them goddamn
13 son-of-a-bitches driving them four-wheelers," said,
14 "I'll shoot one of them bastards if I have to." That
15 was his exact words. I remember the words because it
16 sounded so strong, and the look in his eyes, it was a
17 empty, crazy look in his eyes, it burned that statement
18 into my mind. I can remember that just like it happened
19 ten minutes ago.
20 Q Okay. And was that -- was that in stark
21 contrast to the rest of the conversation you were having
22 with him?
23 A That's really all the conversation I
24 remember having with him that day.
25 Q Okay. But in your testimony, you sort of
1727
Craig - Direct
1 testified about some emotion or description about Mr.
2 Casteel when he spoke about the four-wheelers?
3 Yes.
4 Q And when you compare that to, say, your
5 discussion about the weather or everything else, was
that in contrast to that other part? Is that -- can you
7 understand that question?
8 A I'm not understanding.
9 Q That was a terrible question. We'll try it
10 again.
11 All right. You have testified about Mr.
12 Casteel with a sort of crazed look or something like
13 that when he talked specifically about the
14 four-wheelers?
15 A Right.
16 Q All right. Was that very different, that
17 part of the conversation, than everything else you
18 talked about?
19 A Yes, it was.
20 Q All right. And is that what causes you to
21 remember it today?
22 A Yes, it is.
23 Q All right. Is this -- are you the same
24 Steve Craig that's recorded at entry number 110 on
25 Wednesday, July 6th, 1988? Take a look at that and read
1728
Craig - Direct
1 it to yourself.
2 A That's me.
3 Q Okay. And you're familiar with the
4 disappearance of the three men up on Signal Mountain?
5 A Yes, I heard about it on the radio.
6 Q All right. And this July 6th would have
7 been, then, the three days before the men disappeared
8 and their subsequent aftermath?
9 A Correct.
10 MR. DAVIS: All right. That's all, Your
11 Honor.
12 THE COURT: Mr. Lawrence, I think.
13 MR. LAWRENCE: Mr. Poole asked. I just
14 want to get the book.
15 CROSS EXAMINATION
16 BY MR. POOLE:
17 Q Mr. Craig, let me just ask you a few things
18 to make sure I understand. Now, you had, you had been
19 up there on May the 1st of 1988 with a friend?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q And at that time you had your conversation
22 with Mr. Casteel down at the blue hole?
23 A On May 1st, we had a conversation on the
24 trail leading back to the blue hole.
25 Q Okay. And you'd already gotten that far
1729
Craig - Cross
1 back and you just ran into Mr. Casteel, then, sir?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. And from what you're telling the
4 jury, it's a pretty friendly conversation, wasn't it?
5 A We got along just fine. There was no
6 conflict.
7 Q And he said, look -- did he tell you what
8 he was trying to do up there?
9 A Seems like he said something about he
10 wanted to build a house up there.
11 Q Exactly. And, you know, wanted to clean up
12 the garbage and I guess people, keep people from running
13 across his land, off his land, things of this nature, or
14 did he say that?
15 A He said that.
16 Q Okay. And you didn't have any problem with
17 that, did you?
18 A I thought that was fine.
19 Q Had you been up there previously?
20 A Yes, I had.
21 Q When prior to that time had you been up
22 there?
23 That was the first time during that summer
24 I'd been up there. The previous time before that was
25 the summer before.
1730
Craig - Cross
1 Q Was it cleaner while you were up there in
2 May of 1988 than it had been before?
3 A There had always been garbage laying around
4 up there. Most people are not real neat with their
5 garbage, they don't want to have to carry it -- there's
6 a big hill they had to carry all their garbage back up.
7 I guess they were just too lazy to carry it up so they
8 left it there.
9 Q So a lot of people would go up there and
10 dump it and that's it?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And sounds like what you're saying, you and
13 Mr. Casteel kind of believed the same thing about trying
14 to clean it up then, right?
15 A I guess we do. I hate to see trash in the
16 woods.
17 Q Well, I mean, you were talking about
18 cleaning it up.
19 All right. So he gave you his telephone
20 number and said, "Steve, give me a call if you want to
21 come up and go swimming"?
22 A Yes, he did.
23 Q Did you clean up some garbage that day, May
24 the 1st?
25 A We filled a garbage bag all the way up.
1731
Craig - Cross
1 Q And go swimming that day?
2 A We went swimming that day.
Q And you came back a couple months later
4 after you called him?
5 A After I called him.
6 Q Okay. And at this point in time, you saw
7 Mr. Casteel I guess again at the blue hole?
8 A Yes. He told me when I called and give him
9 the date I was wanting to go there.
10 Q Yeah.
11 A He told me that him and his family would be
12 up there later that afternoon.
13 Q And he did?
14 A We were planning on going up there earlier
15 in the morning.
16 Q They did come up later in the afternoon?
17 A Yes. We planned on spending the whole day
18 up there. We drove from East Brainerd, so, you know, we
19 wanted to make a day of it, so we said, you know, "We'll
20 probably still be there so we'll talk to you then."
21 Q So you had another good conversation with
22 him then, I guess, right?
23 A Yeah, we did.
24 Q How long did you talk to him?
25 A For a while. I don't remember exactly how
1732
Craig - Cross
1 long.
2 Q Had you already been swimming?
3 A Half the day.
4 Q Half a day when he got there?
6 Q All right. And then you said he made these
7 comments about three-wheelers or four-wheelers or ATVs
8 or something like that?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And it kind of shocked you, based upon your
11 previous statements with him, I guess, did it not?
12 A Well, what shocked me was the, was the
13 statement being so strong, the look in his eyes.
14 Q Okay. Now, that was July the 6th of 1988,
15 and I think Mr. Davis asked you about you had heard that
16 the three men got killed July the 9th of 1988, right?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. And you read the paper and listen to
19 TV and radio and you knew about that, didn't you?
20 A Yeah. I knew about that.
21 Q Okay. And so I guess knowing what you did
22 about that and knowing that you had talked to Mr.
23 Casteel on July the 6th, you called the police up pretty
24 quickly and told them what had happened to you?
25 A I never contacted the police. You know,
1733
Craig - Cross
1 what I had, I considered at the time, I didn't know any
2 better, I considered it to be circumstantial evidence,
3 you know, hearsay.
4 Q Well, we've heard about that. Oh, yeah,
5 we've heard about that hearsay and circumstantial
6 evidence.
7 But '88, then, you didn't call, you called
B in '89?
9 A No, I never called in '89.
10 Q '90?
11 A No.
12 Q '91?
13 A I've never been back up there since then.
14 Q No, I'm talking about called the police,
15 tell somebody about this circumstantial hearsay
16 evidence. When did you tell them about that?

H
17 A When the DA contacted me, I told my story
18 then.
19 Q They said, You got any hearsay or
20 circumstantial evidence, and you said yeah?

iJ
21 MR. COX: Object.
22 A They wanted to know what I knew about him.
23 Q Okay. You told them, then, in what, 1997
24 or 8 or when?
25 A '98, '97.
1734
Craig - Cross
1 MR. POOLE: '97, '98 sometime. Okay, sir.
2 Thanks.
3 That's all. Thank you.
4 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Davis.
6 BY MR. DAVIS:
7 Q Yeah, just very briefly.
8 The logbook, do you have that?
9 MR. POOLE: Yeah, we've got it.
10 Q (By Mr. Davis) The -- read your name in
11 there and tell me what kind of biographical information
12 about you that appears there?
13 A Says, "Steve Craig called to ask permission
14 to swim."
15 Q So your name is there, right?
16 A My name is there.
17 Q Is your date of birth there?
18 A My date of birth is not there.
19 Q Is your Social Security number there?
20 A No, it's not.
21 Q Is your description of you there, physical
22 description?
23 A Not my physical description.
24 Q Age?
25 A No.
1735
Craig - Redirect
1 Q Address?
2 A No.
3 Q Okay. And there is a, I believe a VIII --
4 or a license number on a vehicle?
5 A Looks like a license plate number and
6 color.
7 Q And is that a vehicle that is a long time
8 ago that you stopped driving or --
9 A Yes. A guy had run a stop light, hit the
10 side of it and totaled it out.
11 Q Years ago?
12 A Years ago.
13 Q All right. And counsel asked you if we
14 came and, specifically if I came and asked you whether
15 you had hearsay evidence for us. Did I contact you when
16 I told you I ran you down, having spent a couple years
17 trying to find you based on this scanty information in
18 this book?
19 A Yes, you did.
20 MR. DAVIS: That's all.
21 RECROSS EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. POOLE:
23 Q Who were you with on that occasion, Steve?
24 A On which occasion?
25 Q Either occasion? Both occasions?
1736
Craig - Recross
A On the first occasion in May I was with
2 Allen Williams. His name is in the book.
3 Q His name is in the book, too?
4 A His name is in the book.
5 Q Okay.
6 A And on the second occasion I was with a guy
7 named Tommy Shaw and the girl that's now his wife.
8 Q And they were both up there with you?
9 A Yes, they were.
10 Q Did you tell the district attorney's office
11 or whomever you talked to who was up there with you?
12 A Yes, I did.
13 Q Tommy Shaw and his wife, where do they
14 live?
15 A They live in Ringgold, Georgia.
16 Q What's Tommy's phone number, do you know?
17 A Yeah, but unless I have to give it to you,
18 I don't really want to.
19 THE COURT: Well, you can write it on a
20 piece of paper and give it to him.
21 MR. POOLE: Just write it. Mr. Lawrence
22 will give you a piece of paper.
23 THE COURT: Is he listed in our local phone
24 book under Ringgold?
25 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, he is.
1737
1 MR. DAVIS: I believe we've already given
them this information in discovery, Your Honor.
3 THE COURT: Okay. He's listed in the phone
4 book, but go ahead and write the number down, if you
5 know it.
6 MR. POOLE: That's all, sir. Thank you.
7 THE COURT: Anything further of this
8 witness?
9 MR. COX: No, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: All right. Thank you, Mr.
11 Craig. You're free to go or you can have a seat in the
12 courtroom.
14 THE COURT: Y'all want to, attorneys want
15 to approach again?
20 THE COURT: I'm going to tell the jury now
21 that we're going to go look at the ATVs and the jeep.
22 MR. COX: Want to do that now?
23 MR. POOLE: Is that now?
24 THE COURT: And then later you can, before
25 the jury Monday, you can announce when you close.
1738
1 MR. COX: Okay.
2 MR. POOLE: We just disband out there?
3 THE COURT: Yeah. And I am going to tell
4 the jury something else here different than I would
5 normally tell them. During their deliberations, they'll
6 have all the evidence in the jury room, but they won't
7 have these ATVs, so they can discuss, they can say, Look
8 at that mark on this or look at that, they can do that
9 among themselves without, without getting into what it
10 means or anything, but they can point out things to each
11 other.
12 MR. POOLE: Judge, I think if you would
13 tell them, you know, they can kind of pick up on it, if
14 that's okay to do that.
15 THE COURT: Yeah.
16 MR. DAVIS: And I also want you to make
17 sure, if you're going to do that, to instruct them that
18 these have not been kept in pristine condition.
19 MR. LAWRENCE: The Scrambler hadn't been
20 either.
21 MR. DAVIS: Okay. Because these ATVs have
22 flat tires. One of them's been cleaned up, it's not
23 like they've been kept in a, in the evidence locker.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
1739
3 the jury:)
4 THE COURT: All right. Jurors, at this
5 point we will go to the police annex, or the sheriff's
6 annex to view the ATVs and the jeep, and you'll have to
7 remember that they have been in custody for quite a few
8 years, so their condition will not be exactly the same
9 as it was at the time in '88.
10 Also, during your deliberations later,
11 after all the proof is in, you'll have all the evidence
12 in the jury room with you, but of course, you will not
13 have these ATVs and the jeep, so you can discuss these
14 among yourselves. If you see something on one of the
15 vehicles, you can point it out to another juror, Do you
16 see that, or You see this or what have you. In other
17 words, you can discuss these vehicles among yourselves
18 up there, because you will not be able to do so later.
19 MR. COX: We approach just one more moment?
20 MR. POOLE: Your Honor, I think you also
21 said they can inspect and everything else about all
22 three vehicles?
23 THE COURT: Yeah, you can inspect all of
24 them to your hearts' content up there. We want you to
25 be able to, because as I say, this will be the only time
1740
1 you will see them. Well, technically, I guess you could
ask to see them later, but I hope you get to see as much
3 as you'd like today.
8 MR. COX: We're prepared to go ahead and
9 rest now, Judge.
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11 MR. COX: And we're not coming back after
12 the view?
13 THE COURT: Hmm?
14 MR. COX: We're not coming back here after
15 the view, is that correct?
16 THE COURT: No.
17 MR. DAVIS: That way then they know --
18 MR. COX: Then they'll expect defense proof
19 on Monday.
20 THE COURT: Okay. Yeah. All right.
21 That's fine.
25 the jury:)
1741
1 THE COURT: All right. Before we do that,
2 General Cox?
3 MR. COX: Yes, Your Honor. The state would
4 rest its case-in-chief at this point in time.
5 THE COURT: All right. So that means,
6 jurors, after you see the exhibits up there today, you
7 will go back to your rooms and then we will see you
8 Monday morning, be no court tomorrow, but we'll see you
9 Monday morning, and at that time the defense will have
10 the opportunity to present proof, if they wish to.
11 Remember, the defendant does not have to introduce any
12 proof, but they have every right to introduce whatever
13 proof they wish to.
14 OFFICER HARGIS: What time Monday morning?
15 Nine?
16 THE COURT: 9 o'clock. Nine o'clock Monday
17 morning.
18 MR. POOLE: Judge, let me ask one thing.
19 THE COURT: Yeah.
24 MR. POOLE: You had said something about
25 letting them have some latitude over the weekend?
1742
4 the jury:)
5 THE COURT: Yeah, and -- well, we won't
6 discuss in full your plans for tomorrow, but you
7 understand that you will be able to visit with your
8 families if they come to Chattanooga. Both sides have
9 agreed that you can do that. You cannot discuss the
10 case with any of your loved ones, and I don't think you
11 want to. I think you probably want to talk about
12 something else and listen to something else.
13 OFFICER HARGIS: It won't be held in here,
14 either, Judge, the visitation won't.
15 THE COURT: Okay. Where you going to do
16 it?
17 OFFICER HARGIS: We'll be back in the other
18 two jury rooms down the hall.
19 THE COURT: Okay. But you will be up here.
20 OFFICER HARGIS: Or in another courtroom
21 and this courtroom will stay locked.
22 THE COURT: All right. Okay. That's so
23 that the attorneys don't have to move all of their
24 stuff.
25 Okay. So you can contact your families and
1743
1 tell them that they can come down, and y'all can work
2 out the details with Mr. Tilley and Mr. Hargis.
3 OFFICER HARGIS: They've already been,
talked to their spouses and the ones and got the, we
5 gave them directions and wrote it down and they know
just exactly.
7 THE COURT: Okay. And they understand that
8 they cannot say anything to you at all? All of them
9 understand that?
10 Okay. All right. We'll see you up on,
11 what is it, Highway 27?
12 OFFICER HARGIS: Yes, sir.
13 THE COURT: We'll see you on Highway 27.
14 OFFICER HARGIS: Really it's Dayton
15 Boulevard.
16 THE COURT: Well, Dayton Boulevard, but I
17 think it's still Highway 27, isn't it?
21 THE COURT: This one motion in limine you
22 had about the letters written by Phil, of course, that's
23 moot because the state didn't introduce them or try to
24 introduce them.
25 MR. POOLE: Good.
1744
MR. DAVIS: Judge, Judge, you're aware that
the red, white and blue one will not be out there? It's
been returned to the Smock family.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. LAWRENCE: And I guess arrangements
have been made to take Mr. Casteel there, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Yeah. He has to go.
Let's see. Luther? Doesn't Roy have a
car? How you going to get Casteel over there?
OFFICER TILLEY: Roy will have to take him.
THE COURT: Roy will have to take him in
the car. And I guess Bobby or somebody can ride with
Roy.
MR. COX: What are you going to do?
THE COURT: We're going to take Casteel up
there.
MR. COX: Oh, we are?
THE COURT: Yeah. So be sure they hold
him.
OFFICER WILLIAMS: I guess I'll be with the
jury. I've got to go back with Tilley with the jury
tonight.
THE COURT: Okay.
OFFICER WILLIAMS: Somebody else will ride
with him.
1745
1 THE COURT: So Mr. Poole and Mr. Lawrence,
your client doesn't seem to understand he has to have
3 handcuffs and leg irons on.
MR. LAWRENCE: In front of the jury?
5 THE COURT: Well, no, no. I hadn't thought
6 of that. No, he can't. Roy's going to take three of
7 y'all. That's enough. Rick can handle it.
8 MR. POOLE: Rick, I would be very surprised
9 if he can't handle it, sir.
10 THE COURT: He can handle it. No, that's
11 right. I hadn't thought about it, he can't wear those
12 in front of the jury.
13 (Thereupon, at 4:08 p.m., court was
14 recessed.)
15 (Thereupon, Court was reconvened at the
16 Hamilton County Sheriff's Department Annex,
17 and the following proceedings were had in
18 the presence of the Court, counsel, the
19 defendant and the jury:)
20 THE COURT: Jurors, I may have overheard a
21 question by one of y'all. The white one, it was
22 returned to the owner because it was not damaged and it
23 was returned to the owner at that time.
24 JUROR DAILEY: Thank you.
25 THE COURT: Any question you've got you can
1746
1 ask, but you don't have to ask anything.
2 JUROR BULLARD: Is this the side that had
3 the blood on it?
4 THE COURT: He can answer that question for
5 you. Did the, the attorneys hear the question?
6 MR. DAVIS: Yeah, Judge. Only thing we can
7 say is that these ATVs, two of the three -- the third
8 one was returned to the Smock family because it was not
9 damaged. Two of the three have been up to the lab, been
10 back. Stanley Nixon's was returned to him for a while
11 and brought here, so blood and other debris that may
12 have been on it has not been preserved over the last
13 decade.
14 MR. POOLE: Folks, it's apparent, but I
15 guess I would ask you to look at the size and maybe
16 weight and so forth as you look at it. Some of you have
17 already done that and some of you have moved it out.
18 JUROR JENKINS: Was the other one that's
19 not here this same size?
20 MR. DAVIS: I think the best way to answer
21 that --
22 MR. COX: It was actually a little bit
23 smaller. Where's Detective Sneed?
24 THE COURT: The two Big Reds were larger
25 than the third.
1747
1 MR. DAVIS: And I think the, in the
2 photographs, you can compare the relative photographs
3 and get an idea of the size of them.
4 MR. COX: The little white one was smaller
5 than the two Big Reds?
6 MR. SNEED: Yes, it was. It was a smaller
7 version. It was a racing bike.
8 MR. POOLE: You may remember, but I think
9 we measured the back end, do you remember? Was it
10 something like 43 to 45 inches across that way, if you
11 remember?
12 MR. SNEED: I've got the spec sheet on it.
13 That's, I think it's 48 inches wide from back to back.
14 THE COURT: She asked if the other, third
15 one being a racing bike, if it would be lighter?
16 MR. SNEED: Yes, it is.
17 MR. POOLE: That's about what, 71 inches,
18 is that about right?
19 MR. SNEED: Right.,
20 MR. POOLE: What about the height?
21 MR. SNEED: The height?
22 MR. POOLE: About the same, 47 or
23 something?
24 MR. SNEED: The height was.
25 MR. POOLE: Yeah. Let's check and make
1748
1 sure that's right.
2 MR. SNEED: You going to the bar or all the
3 way up?
4 MR. POOLE: All the way up top.
5 MR. SNEED: You gone -- it's about 47
6 inches.
7 MR. POOLE: What is this thing?
8 MR. SNEED: That's a gun rack. That was
9 added now.
10 THE COURT: Jurors, if you wish, you can
11 use a tape measure at a certain point. After you have
12 no further questions of the attorneys, then we'll all
13 step out and let you look at them, and if you want to
14 have the tape measure, you can measure.
15 MR. COX: We would like to make one further
16 statement. All three bikes when recovered were, of
17 course, operable. They were returned and continued to
18 be operable up until now, so --
19 MR. POOLE: Is that true? These two were
20 operable, too?
21 MR. COX: Where are you, Larry?
22 MR. DAVIS: And, Your Honor, when we show
23 the pictures of -- we identified the bikes by their
24 tags. This would be the Richard Mason bike with the
25 vertical, that would be Stanley Nixon's that Kenneth
1749
1 Griffith was borrowing back there, and then Earl Smock's
2 has been returned to the family.
3 THE COURT: And you do have pictures of
4 that, the evidence, that you'll have that in there?
5 On the specifications that you have, does
6 it show the weight of the Big Reds?
7 MR. SNEED: Yes, sir, it does.
8 THE COURT: Do you know offhand how much
9 they weigh?
10 MR. SNEED: 410.2 pounds dry, meaning no
11 fuel in it.
12 THE COURT: Y'all hear that?
13 MR. SNEED: And it holds, I think, 3.1
14 gallons of fuel.
15 THE COURT: And do you have the
16 specifications on the third one that's been returned?
17 MR. SNEED: No, sir, I don't.
18 THE COURT: So you don't know the weight of
19 it?
20 MR. SNEED: No, sir.
21 MR. COX: If the jury is through, we can
22 look at the truck.
23 THE COURT: Okay. Have you seen this all
24 you want to see? Because if any of you want to look at
25 it without us present, you're free to do so, but at this
1750
1 time you can come out and look at the jeep, and then if
2 you want to come back and look at this you may.
3 Okay. They're all here now.
4 MR. COX: This is merely for the purpose of
5 showing the visibility of the tag with the tail gate
6 down.
THE COURT: And Mr. Poole or Mr. Lawrence,
8 again, if you have any statement you want to make to the
9 jury or ask them to look at something, you may.
10 MR. POOLE: I guess what the jury is
11 already doing is measuring the tailgate area and the
12 back of the truck or the truck dimensions.
13 THE COURT: That appeared to be what
14 they're doing.
15 JUROR GENTRY: Is the truck intact as it
16 was? Were both wood boards added?
17 MR. DAVIS: No, they're not. If you
18 compare, I think it's been entered into evidence. There
19 are pictures of both sides of the jeep with the wood in
20 place on both sides.
21 MR. POOLE: Members of the jury, both side
22 boards were in place.
23 MR. LAWRENCE: Your Honor, would you ask
24 the jury if they would like to see this thing in closer
25 proximity to the four-wheelers themselves?
1751
1 THE COURT: If you want to, this jeep can
2 be moved back closer to the ATVs if you wanted. In
3 other words, anything you want or you would like to
4 request, ask and you can. If you want to put the ATV
5 and the jeep together, you might.
6 JUROR GENTRY: Did this vehicle at any time
7 have a wood bed?
8 MR. LAWRENCE: No.
9 MR. DAVIS: I'm sorry, I didn't hear the
10 question.
11 JUROR GENTRY: I said, at any time did the
12 vehicle have a wooden bed?
13 THE COURT: No. That's the same bed.
14 JUROR ALFORD: Is that the tag that was on
15 there?
16 MR. COX: (Shakes head from side to side.)
17 JUROR ALFORD: It's a '95.
18 MR. DAVIS: It was a Tennessee tag back in
19 '88. Tennessee tags back in '88.
20 THE COURT: Tennessee tag in '88.
21 JUROR HALL: When was the last time it was
22 drove?
23 THE COURT: When was the last time it was
24 driven?
25 MR. LAWRENCE: I think about '95.
1752
1 JUROR GENTRY: Can we ask if Mr. Mason's
2 gun was recovered from the four-wheeler?
3 MR. POOLE: That's a good question.
4 MR. SNEED: It was recovered.
5 JUROR GENTRY: In the same place that it
6 was told to be in?
7 MR. SNEED: Underneath the seat, wrapped in
8 a towel.
9 JUROR BOLT: I've got a question: As heavy
10 as those three-wheelers are, and they was all
11 operational, okay, was the switches, did they find the
12 switches was turned on or if they had gas in them at the
13 time they were recovered?
14 MR. SNEED: The Big Red that was 200 feet
15 down the bank, the switch was still on.
16 JUROR GODDARD: The others weren't?
17 MR. SNEED: The others weren't.
18 JUROR GENTRY: Do you happen to know how
19 much there was fuelwise? Was there a little or a lot?
20 MR. SNEED: I really don't know. Fuel had
21 leaked out down there.
22 THE COURT: Any more?
23 JUROR GODDARD: Yeah, what is all this
24 stuff?
25 MR. POOLE: Good question.
1753
1 THE COURT: It's coming off the side of our
2 mountain up there.
3 MR. COX: It's not snow, I can tell you
4 that.
5 THE COURT: And you know where all of that
6 foggy -- that's coming, the fog is coming from Mexico,
7 the forest fires down that way.
8 JUROR GODDARD: That's what they were
9 saying on the way down there.
10 JUROR MARTIN: We didn't know about that.
11 We haven't got to watch the news for a while. We have
12 no idea what's going on in this world.
13 THE COURT: Now, you know, in Texas and in
14 California, older people are having to stay indoors.
15 JUROR MARTIN: Yeah, the smog is so bad.
16 MR. POOLE: Probably saved your life.
17 JUROR BOLT: I have a question. The bumper
18 guards that was on the back, and the trailer hitch, was
19 that removed between '88 and '95? That's when this, the
20 last tag was '95, so I figure that's when it was
21 removed.
22 JUROR GODDARD: It had been drove since
23 '88.
24 MR. COX: What was the question?
25 THE COURT: Was the bumper --
1754
1 JUROR BOLT: The bumper guards and the
2 trailer hitch, was it removed from this vehicle or was
3 it on this vehicle that night?
4 MR. SNEED: To my knowledge it's just like
5 it was.
6 MR. COX: We would have to look at the
7 pictures.
8 MR. POOLE: I think that's right. I think
9 the wooden thing was on the other side over there. They
10 were correct.
11 MR. SNEED: They had the little side boards
12 over there.
13 THE COURT: You have two right here, so one
14 went on the other side.
15 JUROR BOLT: It had a trailer hitch on it?
16 MR. SNEED: I would have to look at a
17 picture and see.
18 JUROR GENTRY: We're testing you today.
19 THE COURT: Well, those are good questions
20 and they can answer that for you Monday. They'll check
21 into that, both sides can look.
22 JUROR GODDARD: So they drove this up until
23 '95, right?
24 THE COURT: Right.
25 JUROR HALL: Since the scene of the
1755
1 accident, you know, when it happened and they and the
2 police inspected the vehicle all around, okay, in '95
3 when they captured it back, did they inspect it again to
4 see if the stuff, the findings that they had in '88 or
5 '89 was the same in '95, if anything was removed from
6 it?
7 MR. DAVIS: It was not taken back from Mr.
8 Casteel in '95. He just stopped driving it. It was
9 still in his possession, his family's possession.
10 MR. POOLE: I think the officer looked at
11 it the, the 11th, and then you all took it a couple
12 weeks after that, is that not right?
13 MR. SNEED: Took it in August.
14 MR. POOLE: And you looked at it the 11th?
15 MR. DAVIS: Right.
16 MR. SNEED: Right.
17 JUROR BOLT: I've got a question: Is that
18 a cellular phone antenna on the deck?
19 THE COURT: A what?
20 A JUROR BOLT: A cellular phone.
21 THE COURT: Mr. Poole, he's asked is that a
22 cellular phone antenna in the center of the hood?
23 If it is, was that there?
24 JUROR GENTRY: If you guys are done,
25 they're wanting you in there.
1756
1 THE COURT: There will be pictures that
2 were taken of it that are, they've been introduced so
3 you can look at the pictures and see if it was.
4 MR. POOLE: Folks, that's a radio antenna.
5 It's never had a phone.
6 MR. COX: Was it there then?
7 MR. POOLE: That antenna?
8 THE DEFENDANT: The antenna on the hood.
9 THE COURT: Okay. They want to go in and
10 look at it by themselves.
11 MR. POOLE: In asking the question about
12 the antenna in the center of the hood, it was not there
13 in '88. It was added in the mid '90s.
14 JUROR BOLT: Okay.
15 THE COURT: Okay. All right. So we will,
16 we will leave y'all here. You have no other questions
17 at this time?
18 (No response.)
19 THE COURT: Okay. We'll leave y'all alone.
20 (Thereupon, court was adjourned,
21 continuing the trial of this cause to
22 Monday, May 18, 1998, when the following
23 proceedings were had in open court in the
24 absence of the jury:)
25 THE COURT: Oh, would the attorneys
1757
1 approach?
3 the record in the absence of the jury and
4 the following proceedings were had:)
5 THE COURT: Juror 15, who's pregnant, I
6 don't think she told us, she may have, but she's a high
7 risk.
MR. POOLE: Judge, I think she did mention
9 that and then it kind of passed. She didn't say that
10 much more about it.
11 THE COURT: And she doesn't want to be
12 excused, she wants to continue, but she's been having
13 pain. Anyhow, I thought y'all ought to know.
14 MR. POOLE: Okay.
15 MR. LAWRENCE: Let me ask you, Judge, what
16 is the procedure for you to select who's the alternate
17 jurors?
18 THE COURT: Put them all in here and then
19 pull them out. And what we do is we pull the first
20 twelve out is the jury, and then I call the other names
21 to be sure. If I only chose the alternate, there would
22 always be a question in somebody's mind whether or not
23 everybody was in that.
24 MR. LAWRENCE: It's a perfect way of doing
25 it.
1758
1 THE COURT: Yeah, yeah. We just put their
2 names in and pull them out.
MR. LAWRENCE: Okay.
4 THE COURT: We just mentioned that juror
5 15, who is having a difficult pregnancy, is having some
pains but does not want to be excused.
7 MR. DAVIS: She's rugged.
8 THE COURT: I think what we need to let her
9 know, though, is it's her decision.
10 MR. POOLE: Yeah. I wouldn't want to do
11 anything to jeopardize.
14 were had in open court:)
15 THE COURT: (To the officer) Yeah, so you
16 can tell her that the attorneys for the defense and
17 attorneys for the state say that it's her decision. If
18 she needs to be excused, she ought to, but they're
19 leaving it strictly up to her.
20 Anything else we -- well, let's see, Mr.
21 Poole and Mr. Lawrence, I'm sure you have a motion you
22 want to argue?
23 MR. POOLE: Yes, sir.
24 THE COURT: Is there anything else we need
25 to do this morning?
1759
1 MR. COX: No, Your Honor, I think we're
2 ready.
3 MR. POOLE: Your Honor, we will have just
4 the motion, and then we have -- as soon as we get to
5 that, we'll have some witnesses, and then we've got a
6 couple of jury-out things concerning confrontations that
7 the jury will be excused on.
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9 MR. DAVIS: Cecil Hickman issues?
10 MR. POOLE: Some of them are here, so we'll
11 try to intersperse them in the morning.
12 THE COURT: Okay. That's fine. All right.
13 If y'all are ready, then the state has announced that
14 they have closed.
15 MR. POOLE: Please the Court, state has
16 closed --
17 MR. LAWRENCE: I guess we need to have Mr.
18 Casteel out.
19 THE COURT: Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. I'm
20 sorry. You're right.
21 Anyone in the courtroom again that has any
22 matter other than the Casteel case that you're
23 interested in? If, if so, hold up your hand and we'll
24 check your case out.
25 Nobody is answering, Stan.
1760
2 the record in the absence of the jury and
3 the following proceedings were had:)
4 OFFICER TILLEY: She wants to stay, if it's
5 any way possible.
THE COURT: Yes, it's strictly up to her.
7 OFFICER TILLEY: That's what I told her. I
told her if she got to where she needed to go, all she
9 had to do is tell me.
10 THE COURT: Yeah. That's good.
13 were had in open court:)
14 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Casteel is
15 present in court with his attorneys.
16 MR. POOLE: Please the Court, the state has
17 closed. At this point in time, on behalf of Mr.
18 Casteel, the defendant would move respectfully for a
19 judgment of acquittal as to the, to the charges and to
20 all lesser included charges.
21 And .I would, Your Honor, just specifically
22 like to talk about the first degree murder charge as to
23 these, as to all three cases.
24 I think, Your Honor, that ever since all of
25 us have been practicing, that Hamilton County has a
1761
1 tendency to charge everybody in a homicide -- or maybe
2 everyone is too broad a statement, but in most homicide
3 situations in Hamilton County, most people are charged
4 with first degree murder, even though very clearly first
5 degree murder is not, does -- the facts do not reveal
6 that that's what the offense is.
7 We have the Court's charge, which sets
8 forth, Your Honor, the things that are necessary for
9 first degree murder. Certainly requires that the
10 premeditated act, the coolness, the deliberation and so
11 forth. The case of State versus Farmer, 927 Southwest
12 2nd 582, indicates, "To convict a defendant of first
13 degree murder, the jury must find the defendant killed
14 with coolness or deliberation, and after reflective
15 thought or premeditation." So all things, both of those
16 things and all of those things are required.
17 We would respectfully move for the judgment
18 of acquittal in regard to the first degree murder charge
19 at the very least, because, Your Honor, there's
20 absolutely no proof whatsoever that, assuming that Frank
21 Casteel was the perpetrator of this, that he acted with
22 deliberation and premeditation. To the contrary, it
23 would appear that, based upon even the state's theory of
24 a confrontation at the gate area and then a rapid fire,
25 that this was a, an act or acts that did not require
1762
1 deliberation or premeditation at all. It was a
2 spur-of-the-moment situation.
3 There is no indication -- I know the
4 coroner was testified -- or was asked in direct
5 examination about different theories, one being the
6 state's theory that two men may have been killed on
7 their three-wheelers, and the other one may have turned
8 to run, and then a shot was fired into his, his side,
9 but the people who testified, Your Honor, about the
10 shots all say that three and a half, four seconds, they
11 heard a rapid fire, which it would appear to me would
12 negate the state's theory concerning this, would negate
13 deliberation, would negate premeditation, and
14 respectfully, Your Honor, in regard to the offenses and
15 to the lesser charges, we would move for a judgment of
16 acquittal, but mostly we would ask the Court to consider
17 the first degree murder charges in these cases, sir.
19 MR. COX: Your Honor, there's no proof in
20 the record at this point in time as to any confrontation
21 or activity on the part of the victims. There is proof
22 in the record that they were each shot and killed
23 sequentially.
24 Now, obviously, we were unable to determine
25 through the proof who was shot first, who was shot
1763
second. Obviously, however, when you have multiple
killings, there is a coolness and a decisionmaking
process involved in continuing to kill and kill and kill
again. We think that this is a jury question.
Also in terms of premeditation, we have put
proof in the record that Mr. Casteel had made the
statement that he was going to start shooting people and
that he would kill if he had to. This was far in
advance, a week and two weeks in advance of the actual
killings, so we think that is ample premeditation, even
though there is no requirement in the law that any
specific time reference, time occurred between the
decision to kill and the actual killing, so we think
that there's plenty of proof of premeditation for the
jury to determine and consider in this case.
THE COURT: All right. Of course, this is
one area in which the public really doesn't understand,
that most homicides are second degree murder. And you
start really with the presumption that it is second
degree murder.
The only two elements you have to prove for
second degree murder is that the defendant unlawfully
killed the victim, and that he acted knowingly.
To make it first degree murder,
premeditated, then, of course, you have the element that
1764
1 it has to be, the defendant acted intentionally, the
2 killing was deliberate and that the killing was
3 premeditated.
4 As I say, I think the general public thinks
all homicides are first degree murder, and I think
6 they've really been misled years ago when they separated
the degrees of homicide, the legislature when they
8 enacted the law and then the appellate courts when they
9 have made their decisions about first and second degree
10 murder, is not what the general public believes.
11 But in this case, there has been testimony
12 that would establish a factual basis for first degree
13 murder, if the jury chooses to find that the testimony
14 about premeditation and deliberation are present, but
15 it's strictly up to the jury.
16 As to the lesser included offenses, of
17 course, they could in this case find voluntary
18 manslaughter even. The distinction between voluntary
19 manslaughter and second degree murder is that voluntary
20 manslaughter requires that the killing resulted from a
21 state of passion produced by adequate provocation
22 sufficient to lead a reasonable person to act in an
23 irrational manner.
24 Very often the victim's family does not
25 understand that element and the distinction between
1765
1 voluntary and second degree murder and they become very
2 upset, and I would hope that the, in this case the
3 families of the three victims understand what the law
4 says.
5 Also, there is a tremendous gap between
6 second degree murder and voluntary manslaughter. Second
7 degree murder is an A felony and voluntary manslaughter
8 is a C, there are no homicides that are B, and the facts
9 between, that usually occur where a jury has to decide
10 is very close whether it's voluntary manslaughter or
11 second degree murder, and which way they come down makes
12 a big difference.
13 But at this point, the Court finds there is
14 a factual basis on which a jury could convict of first
15 degree murder or any of the lesser included offenses.
16 I can change my mind after I hear defense
17 proof. I can even reconsider while the jury's
18 deliberating and I can consider afterwards, because
19 have to sit in the capacity of the thirteenth juror, but
20 at this time the Court finds a factual basis, so let
21 your motion be denied.
22 Anything else we need to take up before we
23 bring the jury back, or are you ready to call your first
24 witness?
25 MR. POOLE: Let me just have a brief
1766
1 discussion.
2 THE COURT: Okay.
3 MR. POOLE: We're ready, Your Honor.
4 THE COURT: Okay. Let the jury come back.
5 (Thereupon, at 9:24 a.m., the jury returned
8 THE COURT: Good morning, jurors. All of
9 you feeling well and ready to proceed?
10 (Thereupon, the jurors nodded
11 affirmatively.)
12 THE COURT: Okay. Did you enjoy your day
13 off yesterday?
14 (Thereupon, the jurors nodded
15 affirmatively.)
16 THE COURT: Good. All right. Mr. Poole.
17 MR. POOLE: Please the Court, members of
18 the jury, good morning.
19 We'll call Frank Casteel, Jr., to the
20 stand. He's outside.
21 FRANK CASTEEL, JR.,
25 BY MR. POOLE:
1767
Casteel Jr. - Direct
1 Q Good morning, sir. Ask that you speak up
2 real loud so Judge Meyer and that last lady, or even Mr.
3 Clyde back there can hear you, okay?
4 A Uh-huh.
Q Would you please state your name to the
6 members of the jury?
7 A My name is Frank Casteel, Jr.
8 Q Okay. And are you the father of Frank
9 Casteel?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q All right. Now, he's not a third or a
12 junior or anything like that, is he?
13 A No, sir.
14 Q Okay.
15 A No, sir.
16 Q He has a different name than you, is that
17 true?
18 A Right.
19 Q Could you state to the jury, sir, where you
20 live?
21 A I live at 808 Moss Street, Eastdale,
22 Chattanooga.
23 Q All right. How long have you lived there?
24 A About 38 years.
25 Q Are you a married man, Mr. Casteel?

1 A Yeah, I think so.
2 Q Who you married to? What's your wife's
3 name?
4 A Martha Marie Casteel.
5 Q How long have you and Martha Marie Casteel
6 been married?
7 A Going on 53 years.
8 Q You're a married man.
10 Q Okay. Are you retired now, sir?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 Q What did you do during your work life?
13 A I was a heavy equipment operator.
14 Q All right. Did you work independently or
15 did you work for people or what did you do?
16 A I worked for a company, John Cooley and
17 Miller Sand Cleaning.
18 Q All right. What's your age now, sir, if
19 you don't mind me asking?
20 A Seventy-four.
21 Q All right. And in the family itself, do
22 you have a nickname that you go by?
23 A Red.
24 Q Now, does everybody, does your grandkids
25 call you Red or they call you something else?
1769
A No, they call me Paw-paw.
Q Paw-paw. Okay. Now, how many children,
Mr. Casteel, do you and Martha Marie have?
A We have three, two boys and a girl.
Q All right. And what are their names and
ages, sir?
A Jackie.
Q Okay.
A And he's, my mind -- he's in the forties,
let's put it that way.
Q Okay. And what's your other, what are your
other two children?
A Well, Nancy is my daughter.
Q Right. And then Frank?
A Yeah, and Frank.
Q Is that true?
A (Witness nods head up and down.)
Q All right. Now, you've lived at this
location on Moss Street for 38 years?
A Yes, sir.
Q Were you, were you living there in 1988
when the incident that brings your son to trial?
A Yes, sir, sure was.
Q Okay. And let me tell you, let me ask you
this: How many grandchildren do you have?
1770
1 A I have seven grandchildren and I have three
2 great grandchildren.
3 Q All right. Very good, sir. And is Donnie
4 Casteel one of your grandchildren?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q All right. And during the time that you've
lived on Moss Street and, you know, he has been your
8 grandchild and the child of Frank and Suzie, has he
9 spent some time with you?
10 A Donnie Casteel?
11 Q Yes, sir.
12 A Sure have.
13 Q All right. Now, when the incident occurred
14 which, for which we're here in court, back in July of
15 198B --
16 A Uh-huh.
17 Q Was he living with you at that time?
18 A Yes, sir. He stayed with me at that time.
19 Q All right. When did he at that time, sir,
20 start living or staying with you?
21 A In March.
22 Q Okay. And do you know why he started
23 living with you?
24 A Well, I think him and his father had a
25 little falling out.
1771
Q All right.
A And he wouldn't obey the rules, but he
obeyed mine.
Q Okay. Now, for the jury that may or may
not know, what -- basically, Moss Street, you said it's
Eastdale. What part -- can you give us some directions
as to where that kind of is?
A Yes, sir. It's about a mile from the
airfield.
Q Airport, okay.
A Uh-huh, and about a half mile from the, we
call it the rock quarry.
Q Okay.
A That's in Eastdale.
Q All right. Now, what was -- was Donnie
Casteel, when he lived with you, working outside the
home? Was he, did he have a job?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where was he working?
A Captain D's.
Q All right. And do you know where that
Captain D's was located?
A It was on 58 highway.
Q All right. Now --
A No, I think so now.
1772
1 Q Okay.
2 A I believe it was.
3 Q 58 or Hixson Pike where they run together?
4 A Yeah, Hixson Pike.
5 Q Okay. What was his shift out there at that
6 time? What time of day did he work?
7 A Well, he worked what they call I guess
8 second shift.
9 Q Okay. And do you know what time he got off
10 at that second shift, depending upon the day of the
11 week?
12 A Eleven o'clock.
13 Q All right. Now, July the 9th, 1988, was
14 Donnie Casteel living with you?
15 A Yes, sir, sure was.
16 Q Do you remember that Saturday when he'd go
17 to work and coming back?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q Okay. I just want to ask you now, without
20 leading you, what time did he go to work?
21 A Probably about two-something.
22 Q All right.
23 A I don't remember exactly.
24 Q All right. Now, for these 14 jurors and
25 Judge Meyer, do you remember him getting home that
1773
1 evening?
2 A Yeah, I remember him getting home, yes,
3 sir, I sure do.
4 Q All right. Well, tell us about what time
5 it was and what you remembered about it and what
6 happened?
7 A Well, one thing I remember about it, he
8 waked me up every time he come home.
9 Q Okay.
10 A And the next thing, I have to get up and
11 down a lot of the night, but what happened, he got home
12 about 11:30 or quarter to 12 or something like that.
13 Q Right.
14 A It was close to twelve.
15 Q Right. Well, tell us, how do you remember
16 that specifically, him getting home about that time?
17 A Well, the reason I remember it, because he
18 always woke me up. He knocks on the door when he comes
19 home, and I'm generally up anyway.
20 Q Okay.
21 A But I'm the one that let him in.
22 Q All right. And where did Donnie sleep in
23 relation to where you slept and where Martha Marie
24 Casteel slept?
25 A Martha Marie slept in her bedroom and
1774
1 Donnie slept in the back bedroom and I slept on the
2 couch.
3 Q Okay.
4 A Next to the telephone.
5 Q All right. Now, let's go into that. Why'd
6 you sleep on the couch?
7 A Well, one reason I do, I'm up and down of
8 the night like that.
9 Q Okay.
10 A Because I'm a diabetes and I have bad
11 kidneys.
12 Q Okay.
13 A And I'm up and down.
14 Q All right. Now, one of the reasons that
15 you wanted to testify fairly early is, tell us about
16 diabetes, and, you know, what your treatment for that
17 is?
18 A Okay. Diabetes is a bad thing, whoever's
19 got it realize that. I take five shots a day.
20 Q Yes, sir.
21 A I have to stick my finger five times a day.
22 Q Okay. Have you already done that this
23 morning or will you do it again today?
24 A Yes, sir, I done done it once this morning.
25 I had to get up at three o'clock and do the same thing.
1775
1 Q In the middle of the night?
2 A Three o'clock in the morning.
3 Q Okay. Now, when he came in that evening,
4 did you have any conversation with him?
5 A I spoke to him.
6 Q Okay.
7 A I always spoke to him.
Q All right. And what did he do after you
9 spoke to him?
10 A I told him change clothes because I can't
11 stand the smell of fish.
12 Q And did you smell it that night?
13 A Yes, I sure could.
14 Q Okay. Did he do that?
15 A He went on in his bedroom, I guarantee you.
16 Q All right. Now, can you see, sir, his
17 bedroom from where you were?
18 A I can't see from where I were, but when I
19 went to the bathroom, I did.
20 Q Okay. Tell us about your house, how many
21 rooms it is and how many stories it is?
22 A Well, it's only a level house. I have
23 eight rooms.
24 Q Okay.
25 A Eight-room house.
1 Q All right. And it just --
2 A And Donnie was in the back room.
3 Q One level?
4 A One level.
Q All right. Tell us about getting in,
6 getting out, where would you get in and get out of that
7 house?
A Well, where he was at, the next room from
9 him was my junk room.
10 Q Okay.
11 A I had all my stuff in there.
12 Q All right.
13 A And if he got out of there, so help me, I
14 would know it.
15 Q Okay.
16 A He had to come out the front door.
17 Q All right.
18 A And he did not come out the front door.
19 Q All right. Well now, tell this jury how
20 many times with your diabetes and so forth do you get up
21 during the night to go to the bathroom?
22 Well, I get up five and six times of the
23 night.
24 Q All right. If he got in at 11:45, about
25 how often then do you get up?
1777
1 A How long what?
2 Q About how often would you go then? About
3 every, you know, if you go five times from --
4 A Well, about five times, sometimes -- it's
5 just according to how my diabetes was leveling off. If
6 it was, you know, running bad, why, it just --
7 Q All right. Tell us this --
8 A I can't hardly explain it to you. It's
9 just a bad thing to have.
10 Q All right. Where is the bathroom that you
11 go to in relation to where Donnie was sleeping?
12 A Well, Donnie's in one room, and the way the
13 house is made, you can see from the bathroom I go to
14 right into Donnie's bed.
15 Q Yes, sir.
16 A And every time I got up, Donnie was there.
17 Q All right. Now, was he there all night?
18 A All night.
19 Q Tell the Court and jury what time you got
20 up the next morning and what time that Donnie would have
21 gotten up?
22 A Well now, we had to wake Donnie up because
23 we was going up to my brother's, Cleveland, Tennessee.
24 And my wife went in there and woke him up and told him
25 to get up to get ready to go to work, because he was
1778
1 hard to get out of bed.
2 Q Okay.
3 A And I'm up five o'clock every morning when
4 I take my little dog out every morning at five o'clock
5 for a walk.
6 Q When you got up at five o'clock, was your
7 grandson Donnie Casteel there?
8 A He sure was.
9 Q When you woke him up later that day, silly
10 question, he was there, he was when you woke him up?
11 A Yes, sir, he sure was, yes, sir.
12 Q Okay. What time did you leave that day,
13 sir?
14 A I believe, now, from my mind, just, it was
15 about ten something, we left.
16 Q Right. Okay. Sir, after that, how much
17 longer did this grandson live with you from March
18 until -- do you know how long he lived with you?
19 A Yeah, he lived with us from March to about
20 October.
21 Q Okay.
22 A Now, what day, I don't remember, he left.
23 Q Did you ever visit your son's property up
24 on, up on the mountain?
25 A One time.
1779
1 Q Okay.
2 A I was up there one time. Don't ask me how
to get there, I wouldn't know.
4 Q Okay. One moment, Mr. Casteel. Thank you,
5 sir.
6 A Okay.
7 MR. POOLE: Okay. You can ask.
8 CROSS EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. COX:
10 Q Good morning, Mr. Casteel.
11 A Good morning. How are you, sir?
12 Q Fine, thank you.
13 Mr. Casteel, we provided discovery to the
14 defense in this case in 1997 about Donnie being
15 identified as being on the mountain. When did someone
16 first talk to you about your recollection of July 9th,
17 1988?
18 A Nobody has talked to us.
19 Q Okay. So you've never talked about whether
20 Donnie was at home on July the 9th, 1988, before this
21 morning?
22 A I knew he was home that night, I know that
23 much, until the next morning.
24 Q Okay. But when did you first have a
25 conversation with anyone about this?
1780
Casteel Jr. - Cross
1 A I didn't have no conversation with nobody
2 about that.
3 Q Okay. So when you're remembering, you're
4 remembering from today back until July the 9th, 1988, is
5 that right?
6 A That's right.
7 Q So between then and now, nobody has
discussed this with you or talked about what you
9 remembered on the 9th of July 1988?
10 A No law enforcement, no.
11 Q Okay. Well, if not law enforcement --
12 A Me and my wife talked about it, yes, sir.
13 Q Okay. And did you talk about it last year
14 or the year before? When did you talk about it?
15 A It was on our mind all the time.
16 Q Why would it have been on your mind, sir,
17 as to whether or not Donnie was home on July the 9th?
18 A Well, July the 9th, it didn't mean nothing
19 to me far as that, because Donnie was there. I know
20 that much. But if my son's on something that he didn't
21 do, yes, it's on our mind. It's been on there for about
22 nine, ten years.
23 Q I understand that, but what I'm asking you,
24 sir, is when did you first learn that Donnie was
25 implicated in this crime?
1781
Casteel Jr. - Cross
1 A I didn't understand you, sir.
2 Q When did you first learn that Donnie was
3 identified as being on the mountain that night?
4 A What day?
5 Q When did somebody first come to you and
6 say —
7 A Well, it was about three days later before
I even knowed anything about it.
9 Q Okay. Maybe, sir, you're not understanding
10 my question exactly, and I'm not trying to confuse you,
11 believe me. I just want to know when it was that
12 someone first told you that Donnie was seen on the
13 mountain that night?
14 A I don't, I don't recall it.
15 Q Okay. So it was not a concern of yours
16 back in July of 1988?
17 A No, because I didn't know nothing.
18 Q Okay. As a matter of fact, you probably
19 didn't know that until last year, is that right?
20 A No, I knowed it, I knowed about two or
21 three days after it happened.
22 Q All right. Can you tell us -- when you
23 were testifying, you were saying that Donnie always came
24 home at a certain time, is that right?
25 A That's right.
1782
Casteel Jr. - Cross
Q And he always woke you up?
A Now, he wasn't on through the week or
something like that, but that night I know where he was.
Q Yes, sir, I understand that, but you also
said, I believe, if I'm not incorrect, that he always
woke you up when he came home?
A That's right.
Q All right. And that you always got up
every, two or three times in the middle of the night?
A That's right.
Q All right. So I guess my question is: Did
he wake you up on July the 8th when he came home?
A July the 8th?
Q Yes, sir.
A If he come home, yes, he did wake me up
because he couldn't get in if he didn't.
Q Okay. Did he wake you up on April the 5th?
A Yes, he sure did.
Q All right. And did he wake you up on May
the 10th when he came home?
A He sure did.
Q Okay. So this night in your recollection
is no different than any of the other nights when he
came home, is that correct?
A That's right. That is right.
1783
Casteel Jr. - Cross
1 Q So I guess what you're saying is that as
2 far as you could remember going back ten years, that
3 when he came home, he woke you up?
4 A Well, he wasn't there no ten years. He was
5 only there about seven months.
6 Q Yes, sir. But I mean, during that period
7 of time, the routine was pretty much the same?
8 A Every time he got off, he would come in my
9 door, he woke me up.
10 Q Okay. And nobody talked to you about his
11 whereabouts on the 9th of July until when?
12 A But it was about Monday, something like
13 that, me and my wife really heard about what they had my
14 son accused of.
15 Okay. But when did anyone accuse Donnie?
16 A I don't know when they accused Donnie.
17 Q Well, did Mr. Casteel talk to you on the
18 Monday about Donnie's whereabouts?
19 A No. Mr. Casteel didn't because I knowed
20 where he was at on the 9th.
21 Q Were there ever a time that Donnie didn't
22 come home during this entire period of --
23 A Well, it might have varied through the week
24 like that, but that night he came home, he was there
25 early, but he mostly was there on time.
1784
Casteel Jr. - Cross
1 Q And, but sometimes he wouldn't come home?
2 A No, he'd always come home, but he was a
3 young boy. He might have been a-dating somebody or
4 something like that.
5 Q Sometimes he'd stay out late at night?
6 A Well, he, most of the time he was there
7 about 11:30 or 12 o'clock.
9 BY MR. POOLE:
10 Q Mr. Casteel, let me ask you just a couple
11 of other things, sir: You know that, you've talked
12 about your son pretty shortly after that Saturday night
13 your son was questioned about this, wasn't he?
14 A Yes, sir.
15 Q You know that.
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q I think what you're saying is, the police
18 never talked to you?
19 A The police never even called or come, not
20 even come around and talk to us.
21 Q Okay. Was Donnie talked to shortly after
22 this July the 9th date by the police, to your knowledge?
23 A Well, the best of my knowledge, Donnie, of
24 course, Donnie was concerned of it.
25 Q Was he talked to by the police, to your
1785
Casteel Jr. - Redirect
1 knowledge, shortly after this?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q Okay. And you've talked to Mr. Lawrence
4 and I about this, haven't you?
5 A Sure have.
6 MR. POOLE: Okay. That's all, sir.
7 THE COURT: Anything further, General?
8 MR. COX: Nothing further.
9 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. You can
10 have a seat in the courtroom if you'd like.
11 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you, Judge.
12 THE COURT: Or you're free to leave.
14 THE COURT: Who is your next witness?
15 MR. POOLE: Mrs. Martha Casteel, Your
16 Honor.
17 MARTHA MARIE BARNES CASTEEL,
21 BY MR. POOLE:
22 Q Good morning, ma'am. Okay.
23 Would you speak up real loud now, okay?
24 A I'll try.
25 Q Okay. Loud as you can so all these folks
1786
M. Casteel - Direct
1 over here can hear you.
2 Tell us your full name.
3 A Martha Marie Casteel, Barnes Casteel.
4 Q Okay. Barnes being your maiden name, is
5 that right?
6 A Yeah, Barnes.
7 Q When did you lose that maiden name and get
8 the name of Casteel?

--]
9 A March the 12th, 1946.
10 Q All right. And you're married to Frank
11 Casteel, Jr., is that correct?
12 A Yes, I am.
13 Q Okay. Where were you born, ma'am?
14 A I was born at Graysville, Tennessee.
15 Q All right. How long have you lived here in
16 Chattanooga?
17 A Since I was five year old.
18 Q Okay. And how many homes have you lived in
19 since you've been here in Chattanooga?
20 A Well, when we were little, we moved quite a
21 bit in North Chattanooga.
22 Q Okay.
23 A But we've only lived -- let's see, one,

1
24 two, about three or four since we've been married.
25 Q Okay. And where do you live now?
1787
M. Casteel - Direct
1 A We live at 808 Moss Street, Chattanooga,
2 Tennessee.
3 Q You lived here a pretty good while, haven't
4 you?
5 A We lived there 38 year this next month.
6 Q How many children do you have?
7 A We have three.
8 Q Okay. Did you basically raise the three
9 children at that home?
10 A Yes, sir. He was 12 year old when we moved
11 there.
12 Q "He" being Frank, is that right?
13 A Yeah.
14 Q Okay. And how old were the other children,
15 then, in relation to Frank's age?
16 A Well, there's two years between the first
17 two, and two and a half years between the last two.
18 Q Okay. And so they basically were, I guess
19 maybe another house --
20 A Raised there.
21 Q -- and then lived in that house up until he
22 left home, is that right?
23 A Yeah, they sure did.
24 Q Okay. Have you worked outside the home,
25 Mrs. Casteel?
1788
M. Casteel - Direct
1 A Yes, I have.
2 Q What have you done?
3 A I worked at Mercer Bakery, Baking Company.
4 Q All right. How many years did you work
5 there?
A Well, about 17 year.
7 Q All right. Now, ma'am, you've lived at 808
8 Moss Street in Chattanooga for 38 years. Did you live
9 there on July the 9th of 1988?
10 A Yes, we did.
11 Q And I want to ask you specifically, how
12 many grandchildren do you have?
13 A We have seven.
14 Q Okay.
15 A And we have three great-grandchildren.
16 Q And Donnie Casteel was one of those
17 grandchildren?
18 A Yes, he was.
19 Q Let me ask you, then, on July the 9th,
20 where Donnie, to your knowledge, was living?
21 A He was living with us.
22 Q How long, Mrs. Casteel, had he lived there?
23 A He came there in March and he left in
24 October.
25 Q Do you know why he came there?
1789
M. Casteel - Direct
1 A Yes. He didn't want to abide by some rules
2 that his daddy had.
3 Q What about when he came to your house, did
4 you get along with Donnie?
5 A Well, there's a few things T got after him
6 for, too.
7 Q Okay. All right. Where was he working
8 during that time?
9 A He worked at Captain D's on Hixson Pike.
10 Q All right. And tell us what his job was
11 and what he wore to work and what time he worked mostly?
12 A He was manager on second shift, and he wore
13 navy blue pants, white shirt, and sometimes a red tie or
14 a blue tie. He always wore a tie.
15 Q And he worked second shift. What, do you
16 know what the normal hours of second shift were?
17 A Yes. He -- on Sunday night they closed at
18 10, but on the rest of the week they closed at 11, and
19 then they'd have to kind of clean up --
20 Q All right.
21 A -- after him.
22 Q July the 9th?
23 A Yes.
24 Q How do you remember that date specifically?
25 Why is that important in your recollection?
1790
M. Casteel - Direct
1 A Well, because I always remember their
2 anniversaries and things like that. Their anniversary
3 was the 9th of July.
4 Q Okay.
5 A And of '88 was the 9th, and, but they
6 married in '66, and I had talked to Suzie earlier and
7 she told me that they were going up to the property and
8 that they would be spending the night and probably would
9 have some company up there, which was the brother and
10 his wife and maybe some --
11 (2 Did you see Donnie on that anniversary
12 date, then, on July the 9th?
13 A I sure did, before he left for work and
14 also after he came in.
15 Q What time, Mrs. Casteel, did he go to work
16 that day?
17 A He always left home around 2, 1:30 or 2.
18 Q All right. And do you remember him getting
19 in that night?
20 A Yes, I do.
21 Q All right. Tell us about that, how you
22 remember.
23 A How I remember? I heard the car drive in
24 the driveway, and my bed was sitting where I could see
25 the front door. My husband got up and let him in, and
1791
M. Casteel - Direct
1 that's how I remember it.
2 Q You know what -- would you have known at
3 that time what time it was?
4 A It was between 11:30 and 12. I'd say about
5 a quarter till maybe.
6 Q Okay. Now, your husband has indicated he
7 stays somewhere else and you sleep somewhere else and
8 there's a reason for that, isn't there?
9 A That's right. He likes to sleep on the
10 couch.
11 Q Okay. Did you see, did you have any
12 conversation with your grandson when he came in or did
13 you hear any conversation?
14 A Well, he just always came in, and we have a
15 dog, and he'd always shhh, tell the dog to be quiet.
16 Q Okay.
17 A But my husband got up and let him in, and
18 then, of course, he lays back down, but he got back up,
19 it was around 12.
20 Q Okay. All right. And did --
21 A It was right after he came in.
22 Q Did you sleep pretty well that night?
23 A After he got in. I always pretty well knew
24 just about what time he come in
25 Q Okay. And did you see him the next
1792
M. Casteel - Direct
1 morning, and if so, what time?
2 A Okay. The next morning he was still in
bed, and he slept in the back of the house, and he was
4 still in bed and we were going off. My husband's
5 brother's wife was real sick. We were going off. I
6 went and woke him up at 10:30, and I told him, I said,
7 "We're going to be leaving," so he was still there at
8 quarter till eleven when we left.
9 Q Okay. Now, have the police ever talked to
10 you about this situation?
11 A No, sir, they have not.
12 Q You've talked to me and Mr. Lawrence about
13 this, haven't you?
14 A Yes, I have.
15 Q Were other members of your family talked to
16 about what happened on the mountain, to your knowledge?
17 A Well, they had -- I'd seen it on the news
18 and things, and then I had heard them telling that
19 something had happened up there, and then I heard what
20 it was.
21 Q Okay. Was your son talked to about this?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Was your daughter-in-law talked to?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And was, in fact, Donnie talked to by the
1793
M. Casteel - Direct
1 police?
2 A I think so. Yeah, I know he was because he
3 give that as an alibi and they never came.
4 Q Okay. You're sure he was there on July the
5 9th?
6 A I'm sure. I'm sure.
7 MR. POOLE: All right. Mr. Cox or Mr.
a Davis may ask you some questions.
9 CROSS EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. DAVIS:
11 Q Good morning, Mrs. Casteel.
12 A Good morning.
13 Q My name is Lee Davis. If I ask you
14 anything you don't understand, just tell me and I'll ask
15 it again, okay?
17 Q All right. The year of 1988, Donnie came
18 to live with you in March?
19 A That's right.
20 Q And he came to live with you because he was
21 not abiding, I think was the word you used, by the rules
22 at Frank's home, is that correct?
23 A Well, it was something that he didn't allow
24 in his house and so that's the reason he didn't.
25 Q All right. Can you tell us what that is?
1794
M. Casteel - Cross
1 A Well, he just dipped snuff.
2 Q He dipped snuff?
3 A Yeah.
Q All right. So you're telling us that the
5 reason that --
6 A And that's the only reason.
7 Q Okay. So that's the only reason that he
8 stopped living at his own home and came to live at your
9 home is because he was dipping snuff?
10 A Yeah.
11 Q Is that right?
12 A Yeah.
13 Q Okay. Was it okay for him to dip snuff at
14 your house?
15 A I got after him a few times.
16 Q All right. But whatever reason, then, he
17 was living at your house from March 1988 through
18 October?
19 A Yeah.
20 Q All right. On this particular weekend,
21 July of '88, do you remember it because it was the
22 anniversary of Frank and Suzie, is that right?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. Were you fairly close to all three
25 of the children?
1795
M. Casteel - Cross
1 A I sure was.
2 Q Donnie and Trevor and Paige?
3 A Still am.
4 Q Okay. Do you remember that Paige at that
5 time was working at the Ace Hardware Store?
6 A I sure do.
7 Q All right. And you remember Paige had
8 given Frank and Suzie a blue tarp --
9 A I sure do.
10 Q -- for their anniversary?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And that was a new blue tarp that was given
13 to them shortly before they went up to camp out that
14 weekend?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And it was, I believe, to replace .a tarp
17 that had, Frank had previously used for camping out out
18 there, is that right?
19 A As far as I know. They just said that
20 she'd got one.
21 Q Okay. That Paige got a blue tarp to
22 present to Frank for a present, fair enough?
23 A Yes. That's all I know.
24 Q Okay. But that's true?
25 A Well, as far as I know.
1796
M. Casteel - Cross
1 Q Okay. As far as you know. Okay. Let's
2 see.
3 A They always give them anniversary presents.
4 Q All right. Donnie, then, at this point in
5 time, we're talking about July of 1988, it wasn't that
6 Donnie and Frank weren't talking to each other?
7 A No.
8 Q It's just they had a simple disagreement
9 over his use of snuff, fair enough to say?
10 A But they were talking to each other.
11 Q They were talking to each other.
12 A Uh-huh.
13 Q Yes?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. And if Frank needed the help of his
16 son Donnie, Donnie would have given it to him?
17 A No, I don't think for this, because he did
18 not do it. He wasn't --
19 Q No, I'm not talking about this. I'm just
20 talking about, if he needed help from his son -- what I
21 want to do is make clear for this jury, the reason that
22 Donnie was living with you was only because he was
23 dipping some snuff and Frank didn't approve?
24 A Well, I don't think he would have done
25 anything.
1797
M. Casteel - Cross
1 Q But forgetting, forgetting, the alleged
2 crime aside, all right? He, Donnie would have helped
3 Frank with anything else that he needed help with, true
4 enough?
5 A I don't know.
6 Q Well, you --
7 A They were still friends. I don't know.
8 Q Did they spend time together?
9 A That I don't really know.
10 Q Okay. You don't know whether they spent
11 time together?
12 A I don't reckon they did.
13 Q Okay. Did they talk to each other?
14 A I don't know.
15 Q You don't know? You're not aware of
16 whether or not Frank and Donnie had a relationship where
17 they'd talk to each other at this period of time?
18 A Not that I know of.
19 Q Okay. Now, Donnie was about 20 years old
20 in 1988, is that fair, 19 or 20?
21 A Yeah.
22 Q Do you know how old he was?
23 A His birthday was in October.
24 Q Okay. So how old was he?
25 A He was 20.
1798
M. Casteel - Cross
1 Q He was 20. And during this period of time,
2 March through --
3 A No, he was 20 in October.
4 Q Okay. So he was 19 in March and he turned
5 20 in October, is that fair?
6 A Uh-huh.
7 Q All right. So during this period of time,
8 his routine was that he would come home from work and he
9 would knock on the door and your husband would let him
10 in?
11 A That's true.
12 Q Okay. Now, all of that was his routine.
13 He was a 20-year-old man, and there would be some
14 evenings he'd come home earlier and some evenings he'd
15 come home later?
16 A Not that much later.
17 Q All right. There were some evenings,
18 though, he would come home later, is that fair to say?
19 A Not very much.
20 Q Okay. So from --
21 A He came home, he'd go to bed, he'd sleep.
22 Q Is it your testimony that from March to
23 October, then, that Donnie never stayed out?
24 A Not that much.
25 Q Okay. Were you keeping track? You were
1799
M. Casteel - Cross
1 not keeping track at all of his comings and goings, he
2 was free to come and go as he wanted to?
3 A He was free to come and go but he knew he
4 had to be in or he didn't get in.
5 Q He'd have to be in or what?
6 A I said he knew to be home, and he would
7 always come on in.
8 Q Okay. The, on this particular weekend that
9 you went up to Cleveland, do you remember that
10 because --
11 A My sister-in-law was sick.
12 Q Your sister-in-law was sick. Had she been
13 sick for sometime?
14 A Yes, she had. She's gone now.
15 Q Okay. At that period of time on the
16 weekends when time allowed it, would you go up and visit
17 her?
18 A We went pretty often. We went that
19 weekend.
20 Q Yeah. And is it fair to say you went a
21 couple of times or several times a month?
22 A We didn't have no set time.
23 Q Okay. But I'm just trying to get a feel
24 for the jury of how many, how often you would go see
25 her. You said you would go frequently. What does that
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1 IN THE CRIMINAL COURT OF TENNESSEE AT CHATTANOOGA

THE ELEVENTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT

17 C. Leland Davis, Esq.

19 FOR THE DEFENDANT:

20 Don W. Poole, Esq.,

23 Phillip C. Lawrence, Esq.

20 FRANK CASTEEL, JR.

2 July of 1988 would have been eight years ago, is that

5 Q There are also references in the statement

6 to certain articles, newspaper articles, is that right?

8 Q And could you tell us what's been referred

9 to -- first of all, had those articles been received by

12 Q And tell us whether or not you had shown

13 them to Mr. Casteel?

15 Q All right. Tell us, if you would, what you

16 received in the mail?

17 A I got an envelope at work about this size,

18 and it had in it first a piece of paper that said, "Look

19 what kind of boyfriend you have."

20 MR. POOLE: Your Honor, please the Court,

21 and I guess I could be standing up and jumping around,

22 but I'll object to all this line of questioning.

23 THE COURT: All right. You can note an

25 Q (By Mr. Cox) Go ahead.

You better watch out, or something to that effect, and

3 it had newspaper clippings.

4 Q And what did the newspaper clippings

5 regard, refer to?

6 A They regarded, they were referenced to the

7 Signal Mountain murders.

8 Q I show you what's previously been marked as

9 State's Exhibit Number 74 for identification purposes.

10 (Thereupon, a bench conference was held on

11 the record in the presence of the jury but

12 out of the hearing of the jury and the

13 following proceedings were had:)

14 MR. LAWRENCE: Your Honor, it's one thing

15 to say what she's got, but to pass a bunch of newspaper

16 articles to the jury as if they had some insulation from

17 being hearsay is just, is irrelevant.

18 MR. POOLE: It doesn't mean anything.

19 MR. DAVIS: She's got newspaper clippings.

20 MR. LAWRENCE: She says newspaper

21 clippings, I mean, that shouldn't be passed to the jury.

22 MR. COX: They're not being introduced to

23 establish the truth, Your Honor. They'd be introduced

24 to show the subject matter of the conversation that's

25 being had during this three-way conversation and what

2 argue that they're true, the newspaper articles are

3 true; we're just showing them to show what they were

4 talking about during this particular time.

5 THE COURT: Did she discuss them with him?

6 MR. COX: Yeah. She's going to testify she

7 showed them to him, discussed them with him and gave

8 them to him and he took them.

9 THE COURT: Okay. You can note an

11 MR. LAWRENCE: And so what's he supposed to

12 do with them? I mean, how is that probative of

13 anything, the fact that she gave them to him?

14 THE COURT: Just shows that, what his

15 response to these were.

16 MR. COX: What he's responding to in the

17 conversations, they're talking about the newspaper

18 articles, this is them.

19 THE COURT: Anything he said to her could