MIN O S;

o r, O n Law
T ranslated by T H O MAS L. P AN GLE

Socrates, A Comrade

llJ ~ SOC RATU : What is law, fo r us?!

CO MIl:A. Il E: And what so rt o f laws arc you asking about?
soc .: What? Is there so me way in whi ch taw differs Irom law in
regard to this VtT)' thing. in regard to its being law? Fo r j ust conside r
wha t I now happen to be asking yo u. I am asking this J USt as if I had
asked. "what is gold?"'- i f you thus asked me what sort of gold I was
speaking of. I think yO ll would nOI be asking oil correct qoe aion. For
b presumably gold doesn't differ from gold, or stone from stone, at
least in regard [0 being stone and ill regard to being go ld. And thus
neither does law. presu mably, ditTer at 211 fro m law but they are all
the same thing. For each o f them is law [0 the same d eg ree-s-nor o ne
mo re so and another less. This is the very thing I am asking: what is
law as :I whole? 50 if you have the answer at hand, speak.
COM. : What else wo uld law be, Socrates, exce pt the things th at are
law fully accepted?2

M Il){K wn the ICl;Ul d ~f}' (ollndn O( C ....,IC ~ml l hc bin " r ....emy of Athnl\ . As t h e
d i.olog\lc indiu t"", the ~CC'OlJn" ~l rr"",,Ji ng him Are u f n."·" .." n s. Aerording lo ....e
lu dilion. he w I , tr U nn;"..:!. h~ ,.;h, l nd imP""ti..Ji~ lic; l erord inll. 10 another, he w~. th"
grelt""l o f llwgive,.;. illspil<:d dir«i ly b~' Zeus, his f~thcr . Sec 1..>..', 6::,_: .~. ,00;
Plutarch Thesr'" xv-x.;; Strabo G«w"r"r X i ,- 8, 19; D 'od oru .. Siculus IV 60 l nd V
".1111;. semence is 3mhigu ol1"; il could l lw 1I1"l n. " Whl l is Ihe b .... ~ 'n .... 'g us?" In
the Grec k, lhe fint wo rds in Ihe di ~ log ue I re " T he bw"
me word I have tr~nsbled " 'l ", fully ..ec.:plco.l" is .. p..n ieiple form~ (rom Ihe
"n b ,,~,"iz~ , .... hk h h... lhe urne roU( U ""...." (" b w"). Like """''''. "","iz~ h..... wid..
 54 T ranslated b)' Thoma s L. Pangle

soc.: And so is speech in yo ur opinion the things that arc spoken, o r

sighe the things that are seen, o r hearing [he things that are heard ? O r
c docs speech seem something different from the things that are spo-
ken, and sigh t so mething different from the things that arc seen, and
hearinlt something diff erent fro m [he things [hal are heard, and law,
indeed, something different fro m the things rhat are law fully accept-
ed? Is this the way it seems to you. or how else?
COM. : No w it docs .lIppcar to me differem .
so c .: $0 then law is nOI the things that arc lawfully acrcpred.
CO M. : It doesn't seem to me to be,
soc.: So what then wou ld law be? let' s investigate it in the foll owing
way. lf so meon e had asked us, in regard to the thi ngs said just now ,
J I ,,~ "Since it is by sight that you declare that rhc things that arc sccu are
seen. b y the sight's bein g wh ar are they se<:n?"- we would have
replied 10 him that it is by its being this perception that shows
matters) through the eyes. And if, again, he had asked us, " Wha[
then? Since it is by hearing [hat the things that arc heard arc heard , b y
the hearing's being what docs this take place?" -we wou ld have
replied to him that it is by its being th is perception that makes voices
manifest to us through th e cats . In the same way, then, if he should
ask us, " Since it is by law that the thin gs b.wfull y accepted are
b lawfully accepted , by the law 's being w hat arc they lawfull y accept-
ed? Is it by its being some percep tion, o r so me showing , as the things
[hat arc learned arc learned by the science that shows them , o r so me
disco very as the th ings th at arc discovered are discovered-cfor in-
stance, rhe Ihings peru.ining to health and sickness b y [he medical art,
and, on the o ther hand, the' things the gods think (as ehe diviners
claim) b y the d ivining 2rt? Since for us art is presumably a disco very
of things; isn't it?"
COM. : Certainly.
so c .: So which o f these would we especially take law to be?
c CO ,\ ! . : In my opinion at least, these o ffi cial opinions and decrees

nn ll:e of p<>s. ible me~ni nll:s. ind udinll: "prutk e or u'" nmo m~ri ly. " " be Ieg~l or
('\I."",' ..y," ".,n. cr n It'j,:~l or •• I<'g~1 ('\I' to lll," ~ "d " u !:no wl.,utt." ~ ecc l't. or be--
1;""'1.'''- 0[1<:11 " in the I~ w ful o r ~-ustom ..y w~)' , " In or.kr to hi "hl i~h t the; ronnC'(_
lion s wit h I~ w ~nd with ~lic:f or opinio n t1ul ~ re p~nmoont in this di~loll:oc, I h;,....,
u.u~ll)' t ... ool....<1 """, iz<I n " l~w fu lly ~eeept " ; where 11 w""' nor po..ible to do "". I
h~ve r ba:d an . , tCTis!: .fter the word or word. th. t tnn. h te ""...1.:<1. TI,., re~dc-r
<Jlnuld bu r in n"ud Ihu the word m ~y ha...e ~ more Kti ...., connota tion th~n the
E" lo:lish "acrepr" ml~ht s" lo:ltn t.
'T wo In ...... m~nu .cri ph read: " show. eM"" 10 WI ."
 Minos 55

passed by votes; fo r wha t else wou ld one declare law to be? So as a

res ult it's likdy that w hat YOU' \'c asked about, this whole, law, is the
official opinion of the city .
soc.: What yo u' re saying, it is likely is that law is political opi nion.
CO M.: I do !>4Y so.
soc.: And perh aps what you say is no bly put. But probably we will
know better by proceeding as follow s. You say some are wise?
CO M . : I do say so.
so c.: Aren't the wise wise th rough wisdom?
CO M . : Yes.
SOC. : What then? The just arc j ust th rou gh j ustice:
CO M . : Certainly.
so c.: And aren' t the lawful lawfu l through law ?
CO M . : Yes.
d SOC . : And thc lawless law less through lawlessnes s>
CO M. : Yes.
50 (';.: And the lawful are just?
CO M.: Yes.
SO C . :And the lawless unj ust?
C O M.: U njust.
SOC . : Aren't j ustice and I3w most noble?
CO M. : That is so.
soc.: And injustice and lawlessness most shameful?
CO M.: Yes .
SOC. : And the OIl C saves cities and everything else. while the other
des troys and o vert urns?
C O M . : Yes.
SOC. : SO then one ought to th ink about law as being something noble
and see k it as good.
C O M . : H o w could o ne nol ?
soc.: Didn 't we declare law to be the official opinion of the city?
e COM . : We did so declare.
soc. : So what then? Arc II Ul some o ffi cial o pinions worthy but others
wicked?
CO M. : That is the case.
soc.: And no w law, at .1Iny rate, W.1lS not wicked.
CO M. : No, indeed .
soc .: So then it is nOI correct to answer thus, without qualification .
that law is the official op inion of the city.
CO M.: N ot in my o pinio n. at IC3.st.
 56 Translated b y Th omas L. Pangle

SOC. : So then it wouldn't fi t harmoniously for the wicked official

op inion to be law.
CO M. : Certainly not.
SOC . : And yet even to me law co mes [0 sigh t OIS being $0 /11 ,. opinion;
but since ir is not the wicked o pinion, th en ha sn't this now become
m an ifest, that it is the wo rthy-if law is indeed o pinion?
CO M. : Yes.
SOC. : But wh at is worthy o pinion? Is it not true opinion?
) I .s~ CO M. : Y r:s ,
Isn't the true. the discovery of what is?
SOC. :
CO M. : It is indeed .
soc.: Law. then, wishes" to be the discovery of what is.
CO M. : Ho w is it then, Socrates, iflaw is discovery of what is. tha r we
don't at all times usc the same laws in the same matters-i f the things
that are have indeed been discovered by us?
b soc.: The law wishes, no netheles s, [0 be the disco very of what is, but
the human s who, in ou r opinion. do not at all times usc the same laws
arc not at all rimes capable of discovering ,v'hat the law wishes-c-wha t
is. For come, let' s sec if fro m this point o nward it becomes manifest
to us whether we at all times usc the same laws, or di fferent OIll:S at
different times. and wh ether all usc the same o r different peoples usc
different ones.
CO M. : Out this at least, Socrates, is not difficult to know-that the
same people do nor at all rimes usc the sallie laws and that different
peoples usc different o nes. Because, for exampl e, among us il is not
the law [0 sacrifice humans, but it is instead impious. while the
C Ca rthaginians do perform the sacrifice as so mething that is pious and

legal for them, and some of them even do these thiugs with their own
sons, for the sake: of Kro noss-c-as perhaps you too have heard.e And

' ''W\shn to be" IS a li te~l rcndcrm g of a phr~<c (bcwltl..i rin.." Ih~1 usually Iu s the
cc>lIoqu;~ 1 m e-~nin" o f "!mds 10 be " ; this helps e~ rb in the- ro mr~nhm 's rn po n..... li m
~s Socu te~ m~kcs de-u in his next Ull e-r~IICe-. he m e~ns 10 bri llK 10 the surface the
11U:r~ 1 n.e....IlI'1l. (Arislode ....lIIet;IIICS Joo the "", mt"-"",e-, e-.K., Pol il io IlSVl:>6 ~nJ
co ntex t),
sKronos was Ihe- (~lhC'T o f 7.C1IS and c~ me- to poWC'T by lc-3Jln~ a revolt of hi,
brol he... and , iSle-.s ("the- Ti un s") ~K~i"sl hIS falhC'T. Ouunos . II vas prop hnico:l lhat
he ill his turn wo uld he o ..en hrc wn by ~ wll of his own, ~nd 10 fornull thc prophecy
he ~Ie his own children, bUI hi, wife, nhe~. hid the b~b y Zc~ (ro m hilll. .md Zeu.
h...c.-d 10 (ultill lhe- rror ~ ('iCC UcsioJ Thrpg""r IJI - J K, lQ?-\ O, " SJ- j O">, 1'Il')-
7H). Diodn rus Sieulus (X X I,,) lells how the C~ rl h~ gi ni~ns u ,·rilicc.-d their nob lCSI
""n. in hOllo , . ~nJ in ;miUlinn. o f K"'>ll<" _
"One of the- m~Jo r m~ nu'(TIpI' tC'~J . . .. ~. pcrlupo )'ou h~"'e ,,'" he-aN."
 Minos

it's not j ust ba rbarian hum an beings w ho usc laws d iffe ren t fro m
"
ours, but these people in Lycaea? and t he d es cendan ts of Athanu.:,> R-
what so n of sac rifices do th ey per for m , even though they're Greeks!
As to ourselves, presu m ably you too kno w , fro m having heard your-
self, w hat sort o f laws we use-d to usc in regard 10 rhe dead, slaugh ter-
ing the sacred victims before the c arrying o ut of the co rpse and
sending: for the w omen w ho collect th e bones in urns; and aga in , the
d people w ho lived sti ll ea rlier used to bury the dead w here they were,
in the house. But we do none o f thes e things. Som eo ne co uld tell of
ten thousan d such things; fo r there's plcnt y of roor n fo r a dernonsrra-
tion tha t neither w e ;l;mo ng ourselves no r ma nkind .11 brge at all rimes
h wfutl y accept th e sa me th ings.
so c.: It's no wonder, best o f men , if what you S;ly is correct. and this
has escaped m y no tice. But so long: 3 S you tell how things seem to
yo u by speaking in yo ur o wn ma nn...r, wi th length y s peech, and I in
e tum do so, w e w ilt never get togeth er a ll any thing . I believe. If. o n
th e orher hand, the investigatio n is set forth as a com mo n O IlC , per-
haps w e w ould co m e to ag ree. So if yo u wish. in vestiga te- in com mo n
with m e by asking m e so me thi ng : o r if you wish . do the an sweri ng.
COM . : But 1'11I wi lling . Socrates, to answe r w hatever you wish.
soc.: C ome then, w hich do you believe-s-that the j ust things arc
unj ust and the unj ust things j ust, o r that the j ust things are j ust w hile
the unj ust things arc unjus t?
CO M. : For m e it is tha t the just thin gs arc just and the unjust th in gs
UIlJ us t.
J I 6~ so c . : And isn't it believed in this way by eve ryone. ;1<; it is here?
CO M.: Y tOS .
SOC. :An d isn't it s o a lll o ll g the I)ersian s?
[Lacuna 1'1

7lyUc.l wu ~ 10 ,",11 i ll "re~d i~, n"'J r a monmnn !lUI W~ , 011... o( lhe pl~eC"S .up-
po>cd 10 be Zeu' 5 birlh pu ce. It W.lS {he " Ie 01 ~n imp<.>"~"( .~ tl'l ~ry and cuI,
founJ ed by l)"e~on. In fOU llJ IIl ~ Ihe cull. l yeJon ucnficcJ J Po}' 10 u u,. Th "
offNing JngcrcoJ Ze u., bIll J o pilc Ih.. pUlli. hmcnl> Ill' .efl!. the illhJhiUnt' cont;u ucoJ
the pu ctiC!;". ~nd il WJ , ....iJ IN t every Ill " '" yC'~ n J boy w n u ("n ti, ed ~Ild hi' Oc.h
C'J lrn (cf. Refll M;e S6 Sd; I·~u,~n i.. . V III ii I- Z ~"d VI ,';,i Z; Apo llodoru. 1tI vii I).
"HerodoIU' \VII (97) lell, ofhu m~" ~rnfice< offercoJ bv Greek> who hved in the
Jr..~ of 11M: IOWn of AI,,, in A ch~eJ . in , onn....1io u wilh J cult u f the h...ro .... th~ mJ';
AlhJmu WJ' ' '' pp<........J to h~ vc fo unded Alu , ~l1<1 , Ihroui:.h J cn mpliU lc,1 in"'g"...,
w~. deceived into ,l tIcmpn n!l: J human >.JCJilice. O ne ofSophod e<'lo'l u~!tC'die< wu
300m him (cr. PJU UnlJ, I "Ii,' " ~nd IX U,,\V ..- s; ApoUodoru. 1 vii J aed II I iv J ).
'Tfh... nu nuscripn u ck ~n y reply fro m Ihe co rn ' JJ ...: ' '''''e h. ;.-f reply h~, rrob ~"' y
been lo, t. tho ug h on... CJnnot rule o ul Ih... f'O'. ihilily IhJI the cO"'l'"n io l1 . imply
lemJinc.! ..Icnt .
 5S 'I'eanslared by Thomas L. Pangle

SUC. : But at 311 times. surely?

COM. : At all ti mes.
so c . : Is it believed here tha t the things that wei gh more are heavier,
and the things that weigh less lightl:r. or the o pposite?
CO M. : No--bu t tha t!" the thin gs that weigh more arc heavier and the
things that weigh less lighter.
soc.: And isn't it so in C arthage and in Lycaca?
CO M. : Y es.
b soc.: The noble things. as is likely, are everywhere lawfully accepted
as no ble and the shameful thi ngs as sham eful but not the shameful
thing s as nob le o r the noble things as shameful.
COM.: T hat is so.
so c .: And it is the case. to speak universally, that the things that are
are lawfully accept ed :I S being, not the things that are not-e-both by
us and by all the others.
CO M. : T hat is my opinio n, at least.
soc.: So then he who errs about wh at is. errs abo ut the legal.
CO M. : Thus, Socrates , as you say, the same thin gs come to sight as
C legal, both for us at all tim es and for the others. But when l reflect

that we neve r sto p changing the laws, this way and tha t, I can't be
persuad ed.
soc.: Perhaps because you d o not reflect tha t these things, being
moved as d raug hts pieces. rem ain the same. Bur joi n me in o bserv ing
the things in the following w:ly: no w, have you ever en countered a
writing about the healing o f the sick ?
t";OM. : l indee d have.
so c.: You kn ow , then, to wh at art thi s w riting belongs?
CO M.: I do know: medicine.
so c .: Don't you call "doct or s" the men who have knowledge about
these things?
COM.: SO I decla re.
d SOC.: Is it the case that the same things arc accepted" , about the same
matt ers, by tho se who have knowledge. o r different th ings by differ-
ent ones?
( .:0 .'\1. : The same ebings, it seems to me at least.
soc.: Is it the case that the same things arc accepted" only by the
G reeks amo ng Greeks or also b y the barbarians among rhernselves
and among the- Greeks .as well-in regard to matters they may kn ow?

'''<.In... o f th... tw a bc!. t m<>.nu MTil"U Iu ~ " N t_ but it ;~ bdi...vnl- h........ th ~1 ("'IC.). "
 Minos 59

Surely there is a great necessn v that those who know- Greeks

CO M . :
and b arb aria ns :as wdl- :agrec< with themselves in :lCCeptinS· the
same things.
soc.: Yo u're ans we ring nobl y. And isn 't this the case at :all times?
CO M . : Yes, at all times.
e soc .: And do n' t doctors w rite, about healing, things that they ac-
cepr'" as being so?
CO M. : Yes.
SOC . : T hat medical, and medical laws, is what these writings of the
docto rs arc.
CO M. : Medical they indeed are.
so c.: So then, too, agricultural w ritings arc agricultural bws: "
CO M. : Yes.
SOC . : Whose, then, are the w ritings and legal custo ms concern ing the
working of gardens?
CO M. : Gardeners' .
SOC . : So then for us thes e are ga rdening law s.
CO M. : Y es.
SOC . : Belonging to those who have kno wled ge of ho w to rule
gUdt'11S?
CO M. : Who else?
soc.: And it is the gardeners who have knowledge.
CO M. : Y es.
SOC . :And whose arc the w ritings and legal customs concerning rhe
prep aranou of cuisine?
CO M. : Cooks' .
soc.: So <hen these arc cooking b ws?
COM. : Cooking.
J 1 7~ so c.: lklon ging, as is likely , to those who have knowledge of ho w to
rule the preparauon of cuisine?
COM, : Y es.
SOC. : And the cooks, as the y cl;lim, have the kno wledge?
CO M. : For they do have the knowledge.
soc.: Well. and whose, indeed. arc the writings and legal custom s
concerning the o rganizing of <1 city? Don't th ey then belong to those
who have know ledge of ho w [ 0 ru le a city?
CO M. : In my opinion, at least.

li T wo in..: ! llu mlKlip lS In vc " !tc" rn'1nu l" Vl<'","ttrik.r) i'~~l c..d of " ~gticu llu t~l "
(~~"':I:jk,,).
 (,0 T ranslated by T homas L. 1'000g)0:-

SOC. : Arc they who have the kn owledge any others except the states-
men and the kings?
COM.: These arc indeed the ones .
so c.: So th ~"t1 these thi ngs which human beings call taw s are po litical
w ritin gs-the writings o f kings and good 1Il(, 1l.
b COM. : What you say is true.
soc.: Well those, certainly. who have knowledge wiJlnot write dif_
fcrem things ar dilTercnt times about the same things?
CO M.: N o.
SO C. : N or will they ev er, concerning the same m atters, change o ne
set o f legal customs for ano ther.
COM. : No indeed.
so c.: So if we sec certa in persons doing this anywh ere. will we
declare the ones doin g this to be those who have knowled ge o r those
who lack knowledge?
CO M. : Those who lack kno wledge.
soc .: And won't we declare that wh ich is co rrect to be th e legal
cus to m for each-c-cnher medi cal o r cooking o r g.udening?
c co .....: Yes..
soc. : BUI that wh ich is not correct , th is we will no longer declare to
be the legal custo m ?
COM.: No lo nger.
soc.: So then it becomes lawles s.
CO M. : Necessaril y.
SOC . : And then in the writin gs about the just and unj ust things. and in
general about ordering a city and abo ut ho w a dty ou gh t to be
organized. what is correct is kingly law . while what is not co rrect-s-
what seems to be law to those who don't know-is nOI. For it is
lawless.
co.....: Ycs.
d soc .: So rhen we were correct ill agreeing that law is the discovery o f
what is.
CU.\\.: SO it appears.
soc.: But further . let's loo k into the following aspect of it : who has
kno wledge o f d iserib m ing ta seeds o n the earth?
' TTb.: word for "d"lnb"lill!t" (did" " .....') h~, Ihe "'Ille root "'0 the word for lAW
' ".."",.). Th~ o n K""'] n.e~ni n~ o f [hi~ root ",,~m, 10 Iuve 1;>c.'I;D [h~ iok~ of ~pro'"tilllt
pasture to herds. and the Greek word for " b w" s«m. ec hn e nuined an « ho of Ihi,
uri lo:in. l noli nn " ffli . nr rel....... hlc di.trihul;nll. Th e 0" 0'.1 for "diol, ibulmg" ~I>o
m~~n, "P"' IUrill!t." ~nd [he wo rd fo r " hf.d' ll...n" 0. " pn lW"f"" io lhe ... Ille ., the
....c-d for "dembueor" ('ICC" Emm.lt1ucl Laroche. ",Sll li., J, I.t .....i'" ....'E,\I rrl G,rt
d .. ri .... [p ni•• 1I)~\I]) .
 Minos 61

COM. : The farmer.

SO C . : And th is m an dist ributes rhe suitable seeds to each p;lrt of the
earth?
CO M.: Yes.
SOC. : The farmer, the refore, is a good distributo r of these things, and
the laws and distributions of this mall. to these thin gs, are co rrect?
COM. : Yes.
SOC . : And who is a good distribut or o f notes 10 songs, and d istri butes
the suitable o nes, and whose are rhe co rrect bws?
" co...... : T hose of the aulist and the citharisr.
soc.: The most k no wledgeable about law , then, in these m atters , is
the one w ho is most knowledgeable about the aulos.
CO M. : Yes.
SO C. : And who is best at distributing food to the bodies of humans?
Isn't it he wh o distrib utes what is suitable?
CO M. : Yes.
SOC. : SO then the dist ributions of this man. and the L1WS, are the best,
and whoe ver is most knowledgeable about the law concernin g these
things is also the best distributor.
t:O M . : Ce rtainly.
soc. : Who is th is?
.l lh t:O M .: Th e trainer.
SOl;.: T his man is the most capable of pasturi ng the human herd of the
bod y?l:\
CUM . : Yes.
SOC. : And w ho is the most capable of pasturing 3 herd ofsheep? Whal
is his name?
CO J,I. : Shepherd.
so c.: So then the laws of the shepherd are the best for the shee p.
CO M . : Yes.
SOC. : And those of the cowherd (or the cattle.
CO M . : Yes.
SOC. : And whose laws arc best for the souls o fhur nans ? Aren' t they
those of the king? Declue it!
C O M. : I do declare it.
b soc.: N ow yo u' re speaking in a no ble fa shion. Would yo u then be

UW. R. M. umb o f~ fu n, LuoT o f the Loeb "dllion. po' nl' tc tbis lm,, ~, rcr h~p.
lhe nron~....e slyhmc evidcn«' Ihal I'lu o could nof h~ ...e wn uen fhe ,\1",o1. E. B.
F.ngl~nd. o n the confn ry. u...... thi< line ~. a b~.is f<.r introducing an emendation inn.
the l..lWI: sc" hi, aurhoritarive ph ilolQginl co mmentary, T'llt l.......J 4 Plato ( M ~n.
ches ter, 1911) at 803dJ.
 62 'l'rauslared by T homas L. Pangle

able to say wh o among the ancients became a good lawgiver as

regards the laws of ehe arr of aulos pla yin~ ? Perhaps you don't have it
in mind, and want me to remind you?
COM. : By all means.
so c.: Well, then, is M.us yas spo ken of, and his boyfriend Olympos,
the Phrygi;tn?U
C O M. : What you say is true.
so c.: T heir aulos tunes are indeed most divine, and alone move and
reveal those who are in need of the gods. And no w they alone still
c remain, because they are divine.
C O :\I. : These things arc so.
soc.: And who of the ancient kin gs is said to have become a good
lawgi ver, whose legal customs even 1I0 W rem ain , AS being d ivine?
CO M . : I don't have it in mind.
so c.: Don't yo u kno w who among the Greeks use the most ancient
laws?
CO M. : S O then yo u're speaking of the Lacedaemonians and the law-
giver l ycurgus?
so c.: Bur these. at any rate, arc not perhaps three hundred years old,
d o r a Iitde more. But where d o the best of these legal custo ms come
fro m ? Do you know?
CO M. : They claim , at any rate, from C rete.
soc.: Th en do n't thes e latter people use the most ancient laws amo ng
the Greeks?
C O M. : Yes.
SOC. : Do you know. then, who were th e good kings of these pco-
plc?-Minos and Rhadamanrhu s, the so ns of Zeus and Euro pa-rs
these arc their laws.
c o!>t.: Th ey claim that Rhadamanthu s, at least, W 1 S a just man, So-
cu tes. hut that Minos was so meo ne savage, hush, and unjust.
soc.: BC'S t of men, you're telling an Attic myth , from tragedy!
e c o w.: What? Aren't these things said Abo ut Minos?

"~h"y.... wn ~ l"I l )"T w ho YiU o" pposcd to Iu ve invcmcd the fint m"oie for m (
~"l", . He challenged Apo llo to ~ musia l dud , d~lnllng hIS new m\l.k ,,·u OUl'fnnr
In .....pollo·. ; he I"", .nd wn lb)'n1 ",Ih'c fo r hi. irnpudc-nu . O lymp<K, hi. lover,
;1l\"Cm N ~ num ber of .u ngs ~ nJ melod ic!.. HOlh U( 1l1( ntiofl(t.) prom incml y ;n th(
LI..-s (6nJ; d . Sym p"' i..... l l 5b, ( , e: Rrp..blu )99<'; E",ltrJ""". l~ 5d; I.... 5H b).
Phrn :i.l W~ • CO\lntr y in A .i~ Minor. and the Phry!':i.>no wcee noe Gr('(b .
u Europ. wu rh( d.ughr(, o f Ph"'....ix; Zcu. fcll In 1" ,,( wit h h(, ~nd c~rn",l her ofT
In C rete, w hen . h( boee him the th ree IOn' . M;n... , RIud~ m. nlhuo. ~nd S.,pnlon .
S« /Ji.lJ XIV ) 2. 1.
 Minos 63

SOC. : Not. ar any rate. by Hom er and Hesiod, and yet they, indeed.
arc mo re t rustwo rth y than all the tragic poets taken eogceher, from
whom you have heard t he th ings you ' re saying.
CO M . : Bur what. then, do these say about Minos?
soc .: I shal1 certainly tell yo u, so t hat you will not also be impious, as
the m an y arc. For there is not hing more impio us than this, no thing
more to be guarded against. than to err in speech and deed regarding
the gods and. second , regarding divine human beings. N ay, it's nee-
ll9-' essary to exert veri great fo resight every rime you go to blame o r
praise a man , so that you WOIl't spea k inco rrectl y. T his is wh y it's
necessary to learn how to distinguish worthy from wicked men. Fo r
the god is indignan rre wh en someone blames a man who resembles
him or praises a m an wh o is the o pposite ofhim: and th e former is the
good man. Fo r you shouldn 't suppose that, while stones arc sacred.
and pieces of wood. and birds. and snakes, human beings are not.
Rat her, of all th es e things. 17 th e most sacred is rhc good human
being. while the most polluted is the wicked.
N o w then, as regards Minos, this is why I'm going to explain ho w
b Hom er and H csiod eulogized him: in orde r to prevent you. a human
being sprung from a human being. from erring in speech regarding J.
hero who W3S a so n of Zeus. For Homer. in saying ab out Crete that
many hu man beings arc in it. "and ninety cities." declares:

And among them is the great city of Knossos, w here Minos

In the ninth season reigned 3S king , the confidant of gre:lt Zeus. III

c Now this is J Hom eric eulogy regarding Minos, spo ken with bre-
vity, the likes of which Ho mer has not co m posed for a single om' of
the heroes. Fo r that Zeus is a sophist and that th e art itself is ent irely
noble he makes clear in m any ot her places an d especially here. Fo r he
says that in the nint h year Minos got together with Zeus to talk. and
visited him to get educa ted-c-as th ough Zeus w ere a sophist. No w,
rhar this prize. of being ed uca ted by Z eu s. is not dis rribured by

"'The wo rd for indi~~I;oll , .......'1i., h... Ih.. .... m.. roo r ;as ....... <If ( ...... n. I.. alxwe).
"One of the IWt> k->I n.."u.c rip" hu "of ~llihin its ••
"'OJrucy X IX 172.-79. T he .pc~ke r i. the h.-TO O d y. :<c'U>, whl> i. Id ling " Ionll. ~nd
oofwincing Ii.- 10 his wife in whieh he cl"im. 10 be the grand son of Minos . SOCUl n
om il' sever..l linn bclWttn lhe bc-ll.lIlmnR and the cndillt: of lhc s.cc1K>n he quoin ~nd
fail. 10 eo mpl<'le Ilnmcr ', ....nrence. The "an.LlIiu n " in the ninlh >c~""n" raIder. ..
phu>c whose meaning i• •OInewhal obscu re.
 ".. TU Il~ b. [ed by Thomas L. P,m glc

d Ho mer to ,;my other hero except Min os-c-rhis is amazing praise. And
in the raising of the dead spirits in the O dyssey, I" he h15 por trayed
Minos, nOI Rhadaman thus, holding the golden scepter and judging;
he hasn' t po rtrayed Rhadamanthus judgi ng these, and he has no-
where portrayed him gening together with Zeus. It's because of these
things thai I assert that Minos W ;l.S eulogized 1II0re than anothers by
Homer. Fo r to he the child of Zeus, the o nly one to have been
ed ucated by Zeus, is praise that r anuot be surpassed, and [his is w hat
is signified by the verse

III the nint h sc..son reigned as king, the confidant of great Zeus

~ -1!l;1I Minos was a disciple of Zeus. For "confiding" is talking, and a

" co nfidant" is a disciple in talking, so Minos visited the cave of Zeus
at intervals of nine years, on the one hand to learn th ings, and e n the
o ther hand. to show things- the things he h..d learned from Zeus in
the previous nine-year period. Th ere arc some wh o rake "confidant"
10 mean dri nking companio n and pb)·fcllo w of Zeus, but one may
use the following evidence 10 show that those who take it thus arc
J201 saying nothing: ofrhe many human beings both Gree k and barbarian,
none refrain from drinking parties and fro m this pldy that lakes place
where there is wine except th e Cretans, and second the Lacedaemo-
nians who learned from the Cretans. And in Crete this is one amon g
the laws which Minos established- not to drink to get her wit h one
another 10 the point ofd runk enness. Yet it is manifest that the th ings
he law fully accepted as being nob le we re the things he established as
b legal custo ms fer his citizens as well. For surdy M inos did not, like a
paltry human, believe" so me thin gs bUI create o thers contrary to the
things he believed". Rather, this inte rcou rse was, as I say, one that
took place th rou gh talking, with a view 10 education in virtue,
when ce he estab lished fo r his citizens these laws. by means of which
C rete-c-as well as Lacedaemon-c-is happy for all time, ever since it
began to use them , fo r they arc divine.
c Rhadamanthus was indeed also a good man, fo r he had been edu-
cated by Minos. To be sua ' , he had been educated nor in the whole of
the kingly aft bUI in the att of ministering to a king-eno ugh (Q
preside hi the judicial courts. h W :IS fo r this reason that he was said 10

'~OJr<Jrr Xl S6S-7l . Odys'\Cus i. the 'f'<'~J. ~r. dC"cribi"g wh~1 h~ .~ w it! hi, trir 10
I"~ und~rworld .
 Minos Cl5

be a good judge. For M inos used him as a guardian of the- laws for the
town and T2lus21l for the res t of Crere. Fo r Talus made a circuit three
rimes a )'eJr through t he villa ges and gua rded rhe laws in them by
having the laws written down on bronz e rablcrs-c-as J result of wbich
he was called "brazen."
d Hesiod too has said things akin to these abo ut Minos. For wh cn
me ntioning his name he decla res :

Who carne 10 be th e most ro yal of m o rtal kings.

and held sway o ver the most neigh bo ring humans,
possessing the scepter of Zeus; and by it he reigned over cities..:!l

And when he spea ks of the scepter of Zeus, he means no thing other

than rhe education which came fro m Zeus, by which he governed
Crete.
CO M.: O n account of what. then, 50(r.,tes. has this repo rt ever gou t'!1
e spread about concerning Minos. that he was an uneducated and harsh
fellow?
soc.: O n account ofso mething that will nu ke bot h you. best of men,
if yo u are sensibly moderate. and every ot her m 3 11 who C2rt'S fur
good repute. guard against ever incurring the hatred of any poetical
man . For the poets wield great power over o pinio n. whichever sort
they create among human beings, either by eulogizing o r by pro-
nouncing evil.za This. indeed. was where Minos erred: ill warring
:lg:linM this city here. in which there exists much other wisdo m and
all sorts of poets. of tragedy especially, along with the rest of pm·try.
p u N ow trJ gl-dy is an ancient thing here; it did nor, as the)' suppose.
o riginate with Tbcspis or with l' hrvn ichos. but if you're willing 1<J
ref lect, you will discover that it's a very ancient discovery of this city
here.as And the poetry that is the most pleasing to the populace and
the most soul-alluring is rragcd y-c-which. indeed, is thc kind of verse

;o'Acco rd'ng " , . h.· <>t h" r ,n y. hie ' udllio"•• h. t h,,·c come .iow" .o U_. T.I,,_ w .. .
bronu m'n given to MinO'i by ZCU~ " . hdp g""d Cre re from e"cnlin. Scc- .... pol.
lomus of Rhodes IV r")'JIT. . nd .... pollod o ru. I ix : ".
" Th ese ven~ Uo;' nowhe« to be fou nd in ou. lexU ..f l lnioJ: the met..... of the [,,,t
li"c ili im perfect.
UOnc of the tw o mt m. nu...-riptli hu ", u:lJliing" in>te. d of "prenouncmg evil."
:!.' Th n pi. w'" the tr.d ition.1 founder of .... ttic tr.gedy. ~u pro..,dl y the fi ~, pU M
who mrroduced an acm r in di.:tl0!tue ",i.h .he rccilln!t eho rn•. Ph rynicho . w•••nmh e.
cHly c",,,ribuh" I" the elneTgencc ..fthe " "0': he h"ed in the l"e ,i"lh . nd ear ly fif. h
.:cm urics, . nd nnly the lifles of some of hi. pl. y_ . urvive.
 (,6 Transbred by Thomas L. Pangle

we stretch M inos on the rack of. in retrib ution for his having com-
pelled us to p~y those rribcres.a- So this was wh ere Minos erred-
incurring our hatred, from whence. indeed. CO Ill O what you asked
b about. his having gotten a worse rep utation. Fo r the greatest ev idence
of his having been good and lawful-e-as we said earlier. a good pas-
rurer-e-is this: his laws are unchanged. since they belong to one who
d iscovered well the truth of what is, in regard to organizing a city.
CO M . : You seem to me, Socrates. to have fou ndas a likely account.
soc .: Th en if I'm sa yin ~ wh at's true. do n't the C retan citizens of
Minos and Rh adamant hus seem to yo u to use the most ancient law s?
CO M. : They do appear to .
c soc.: So then these were the best lawgivers among the ancients, and
pasrurcrs and shepherds of men- j ust as Homcr decla red the good
general to be "shepherd of peo ples."]I,
CO M. : By all means.
soc.: Come then, in the name of Zeu s, the god of friendship! If
someone should ask us: " In the case of the good lawgiver and pas-
eurcr for the body, what arc these thin gs he distri but es to the body in
ma king it beuer?"- we would uy. replying in a noble and brief
fas hion. that they arc food and toils. by the form er ofwhich he nu kes
the body itsel f grow and b y the latter o f which he exercises and nu kes
it fi rm.
(;O M. : Correcdy put, indeed.
d soc .: If, then, after this he shou ld ask us: " And whatever, indeed, arc
those things wh ich the good law giver and pasturer distributes to the
soul in nuking it bett<:r?"-by answe ring what, would we not be
ashamed of ourselves and of our years ?
COM . : This I can no lon ger say.
soc .: But surely it is shameful for the soul of eit her of us to be
manifestly ignorant of those things in it in w hich good and base
inhere, wh ile having investigated the things rhat pertain to the bod y
and the rest!

UMlno. (o mpdlcd the "'t h C11 i~ns to send -even ",.iua n . nd .even youth. 10 C rttc
evcry )·ur. to be: C<l!<11 by the Minou ur.
ZOIln Gr.,.,k. the word for " fou nd" o n ;t]w mC<ln "invent." I have here .doptcd lhe
ruJin~ ' !l~ro upon b y oi" """",,,d.. . y m. nu!>Oipl. ; the 1.....0 bo,'''1 m1nW;rnp'-' read
"ueered" (ri.; " ....."1 rather than " (ound " (11.... "'''(1141).
J6/l, frequent cpitho:t for kings ~"d prince'S in Homer.