Junaid Mahmood, HR manager

Were you working somewhere else before this?

Yes, I used to be working at McDonald's before Johnny and Jugnu. I also worked in their HR
department Before joining Johnny and Jugnu.
How was the transition from Mcdonalds Pakistan to Johnny Jugnu?
It was a very risky transaction when I was leaving an MNC to join a company that's been
recently established. So, the risk factor involved was very great. However, I sensed growth in
this organization and that is why I am here. When I initially joined there, we had only two
branches, and now we've expanded to five branches.
Certain the decision was very difficult, but in the end, I had hope, I could sense growth and the
best thing about it was the environment and culture.
Was there a reason why you left McDonald's and joined Johnny and Jugnu?
There were multiple reasons involved as to why I had to leave McDonald's, but a major factor
contributing to that had to be the growth. I sensed that McDonald's had become stagnant and my
career might not progress further if I stayed there. There was growth over there where it was as
per need. So, if you are required in a position and we are short of employees then you will grow.
However, talent was not a determining factor.
At the time you joined Johnny Jugnoo, COVID had struck or was on the verge. So, when you
made the decision, how difficult was it?
There was unbelievable instability within the market at that period and people were scared for
their job. However, there was only one sector in Pakistan that kept growing during this period
and that was the fast-food industry. Three other sectors were cutting down on employees,
whereas fast food was hiring. When COVID started, I was in McDonald's. Technological
advancement was required. As COVID struck, we needed more employees because before
people used to collect the food from counters. But as COVID rose, we had to go to cars to collect
the orders and write them down So more employees were required and therefore the hiring
increased. Along with this we also had to hire riders as well, as online deliveries kept increasing.
Was speaking about the entire market. I went through a period of major insecurity because I
wasn't sure whether the market or the businesses do remain alive at the end of this but I kept
believing, and now here I am. So, I sat down with multiple teachers and friends, and colleagues
and asked for professional advice as well. And at the end, I came to the decision that I should
move on from an MNC and take a risk for my career if it propels me to greater heights.
Leaving the McDonald's job, and then coming to Johnny and Jugnu had a very great impact on
me. I started to believe in myself more. I started believing that the value addition that I am doing,
no one else can do, the value I'm putting into the business. No one else can and this propelled me
to even greater heights as I'm sitting in front of you. My belief in Allah also grew along with my
self-confidence.
Now there can be examples of previous start-ups or current start-ups that have failed in front of
us. The grocer app and Airlift have failed as their financial plans or something went wrong. But
the way Johnny and Jugnu grew, is a testament to the employees they have, and the thinking
mind behind all of this has found something in the market that others have not.
What is the difference between the leadership style and JJ and McDonald's?
McDonald's is a franchise and JJ is a privately owned company in Pakistan. So, there is a very
visible difference in the leadership styles the two companies employ. Pakistan all of the prior
franchises of McDonald's are operated by one company and that is the Lakson group of
companies. Due to it being a franchise, most of the guidelines that are given to McDonald's
Pakistan are used internationally or worldwide, and then they are implemented locally. So,
McDonald's Pakistan has very limited freedom as to what it might want to do with the franchise.
McDonald's is a developed organization, so whatever leadership styles or motivation theories
they might implement into their business are adopted internationally. Now the problem with
Pakistan is that majority of the companies have those theories and have those leadership styles.
Theoretically, however, there is a very limited practical application to all of them. A very major
problem in Pakistan is that despite all of this being available theoretically, we very rarely apply it
practically and the only time we do apply it is when there is summer from the upper management
that is showing up to our company. Now, for example, let's take McDonald's when I was
working there. There were multiple times when we did not follow any procedures that were
stated. However, when we were told that someone from the upper management is showing up
today, we worked in a manner that was completely unrecognizable from the day before, and this
annoyed me a lot. In Johnny Jugnu, if our owners can make their way to the branch, it is not
stressful for anyone as the regulations and rules that are followed remain the same on a day-to-
day basis. This often meant that the employees were not stressed and that they could see that
their work was having a significant impact on others and that their owners were happy with how
they were working. Our many employees never got the feeling that someone from the upper
hierarchy is coming to meet them and due to that they changed their style of working. There was
lots of stress at work in McDonald's too, and even at home, I was unable to think about anything
but work. This meant that the work-life balance that I wanted to have in my life was unattainable
at times. Sometimes I think that if I had taken this step earlier in my career, I would have been
in a position that is greater right now but I have no regrets.
So you have been able to work a job where you were the lower level employee and due to that,
you are now able to understand them better. Has that helped you in managing them? What
leadership style have you adopted as you've seen it all?
This set leadership style that we've adopted to motivate or lead our employees. Different
situations require different leadership styles, and this is what my leadership style is as well. The
majority of the time I'm very supportive of my employees and work with them in a manner that
they feel like I have their back at all times. However, there are certain situations where I have to
be more authoritative and impose myself on them to get a job done. HR is usually like the
mother of the company. Multiple issues arise within the company like grievances and others and
we have to be supportive of them.
Was there ever a time when you had to be authoritative towards your employees?
There are certain situations where you have to be authoritative, such as when there is a culture
break now in an organization. I feel proud that we have a family culture within our company.
The people who can fit within this culture are usually the ones that we employ to make part of
the team. So, when we go through the employment process, the skills and technicality of their
job are less relevant to us, it's more of whether they fit into the company or not, whether they fit
into the culture or not. So, our employees go through multiple stages before they're hired, which
include when all of us sit together in a room and the interview is based on whether they are
fitting into the culture. So, three people take the interview, one that is assessing the technical
skills, one that is assessing whether he fits into the culture of the organization or not. Now, if
they've passed all the other stages of their interview, the next stage is when we bring them to the
branch and they work in the kitchen for a period of two days. In this, whether they've applied to
be a manager, a lead, or whatever position it might be, they are made to work as crew members
to understand the position that crew members might come from to them.
Sometimes I think that if I had taken this step earlier in my career, I would have been in a
position that is greater right now but I have no regrets.
So, you have been able to work a job where you were a lower-level employee and due to that,
you are now able to understand them better. Has that helped you in managing them? What
leadership style have you adopted as you've seen it all?
This set leadership style that we've adopted to motivate or lead our employees. Different
situations require different leadership styles, and this is what my leadership style is as well. The
majority of the time I'm very supportive of my employees and work with them in a manner that
they feel like I have their back at all times. However, there are certain situations where I have to
be more authoritative and impose myself on them to get a job done. HR is usually like the
mother of the company. Multiple issues arise within the company like grievances and others and
we have to be supportive of them.
Was there ever a time when you had to be authoritative towards your employees?
There are certain situations where you have to be authoritative, such as when there is a culture
break now in an organization. I feel proud that we have a family culture within our company.
The people who can fit within this culture are usually the ones that we employ to make part of
the team. So, when we go through the employment process, the skills and technicality of their
job are less relevant to us, it's more of whether they fit into the company or not, whether they fit
into the culture or not. So, our employees go through multiple stages before they're hired, which
include when all of us sit together in a room and the interview is based on whether they are
fitting into the culture. So, three people take the interview, one that is assessing the technical
skills, one that is assessing whether he fits into the culture of the organization or not. Now, if
they've passed all the other stages of their interview, the next stage is when we bring them to the
branch and they work in the kitchen for a period of two days. In this, whether they've applied to
be a manager, a lead, or whatever position it might be, they are made to work as crew members
to understand the position that crew members might come from to them.
Now let's come to the recruitment part of the organization. So, whenever we promote someone,
it's usually internal recruitment that is used. Rarely do we use a recruitment method where we are
externally hiring someone from the outside. It happens, but it's very rare. And another very
important distinction between Johnny and Jugnu and other companies is that when we do
externally, and internally recruit someone, we also have to go through an entire process. And in
that process, the amount of time spent in the organization is pretty much irrelevant, and it's
always about the effort you're putting into your job and the way employees or your crewmates
react to you. I do not know if you studied informal leadership in your classes, but there are often
members in the crew that are natural-born leaders, and when we realize that, we want them to do
something with their careers. So, when I joined Johnny and Jugnu for the first two days, I was
made to work in the kitchen and that enabled me to understand where my colleagues were. Might
come to me since I'm part of the HR and I'm the manager of how it is my responsibility to deal
with them and if I understand them, it's better for me and them.
How do you manage diverse employees in the organization?
This is a very interesting question that you have asked and we have a very simple answer to this.
So, Johnny and Jugnu are extremely famous for the culture it possesses and the family nature of
its organization and when someone is introduced into this culture more likely than not, they bond
very well with their colleagues. So, Johnny Jugnu has employees from all across the board. And
now let me narrate an incident to you. So, this incident is very close to my heart and it possesses
an employee that was a Christian. Even in the meeting with the CEO of the company and we
received news that one of our employees had died. When I got to know his name, I won't share
the name with you, but I was distraught at that point. And I didn't have a very special
relationship with him or anything like that, but due to him being part of the organization, I just
had an attachment to him. Now while the meeting was going on, we had just received news that
he was in the hospital, so I immediately made my way to the hospital leaving the meeting. It was
around 3:30 PM and rush hour was going on. Due to that, I was unable to reach the hospital on
time on the course of the hospital I received a call from their family and I was told that they had
passed away. I quickly made my way to the family's House and I saw that many of our
employees were already there and they were sympathizing with them as if one of their very own
had passed away. Quickly after that, I noticed that the CEO, Mr. Gohar Iqbal had also shown up
and that took me by surprise. Now, I told you that I worked at McDonald's, and I remember the
relationship I possessed with my upper management. When I tell you that Mr. Gohar Iqbal
showing up was the biggest shock to me, I am not lying. He also took part in all of the
arrangements and quickly supported the family in whatever way possible. At that moment, I
realized that the culture that this company or organization possesses might not be there anywhere
else in the world. No one cared about whether he was a Christian or Muslim. It was just that a
human had passed away and that we were there to mourn and be there for their family. Even
now, we continue giving them benefits and financial help whenever required. We haven't
stopped a salary as well.