Oggetto:

[Cliff's List] Your Wingman Is Nothing But Trouble

Mittente:
"Clifford " <cliff@cliffslist.com>
Data:
Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:53:18 -0500
A:
"" <taochi@interfree.it>

THIS IS CLIFF'S PRIVATE LIST, A F*R*E*E* E-MAIL RELATING TO

SEDUCTION

Cliff's List is changing ! We have a new format and we want your

comments on everything ... do you like it ? If so, tell us. If not,
suggest what we should improve. Visit the http://www.cliffslist.com
website and post your comments there. You'll get to discuss your
thoughts with other readers, authors and coaches. Your opinions are
greatly appreciated.

Aaron Sleazy (http://www.cliffslist.com/link/hw):

One of the most prevalent concepts within the seduction community

is that you should not go out alone, but instead enlist the
services of a "wing man," a guy that assists you in your attempts
at seducing women. According to the theory, you walk up to a girl
and deliver your lines, and your wingman comes in to give you props
and make you look better in front of the girl. It is also often
said that a wingman is required if you want to pull a girl that is
out with a girlfriend. As can often be observed, beautiful women
frequently come in tow with less good-looking friends. Your wingman
can then take care of that problem and "take one for the team."

For plenty of reasons, however, life is better without a wingman.

In the following, I will discuss some problems.

"I'm sorry, I can't leave my friends."

Girls use a line like this, not because they can't leave their
friends, but simply because they are not interested. I'm sorry to
break the news to you, but a girl making such excuses simply wants
to let you down softly. The average guy, however, in order to
protect his fragile ego, might think instead, "Now if I only had
somebody with me who could entertain her friends, then I would get
her." But do you honestly think she would say the same to George
Clooney or Brad Pitt ? "Sorry, Brad, I'd love it if you massaged my
back, but I've got to take care of my friends. But give me your
number instead." Life doesn't really work this way.

As I got better and better at the game, I heard fewer and fewer
excuses. One of the most interesting instances was when I met a
girl who claimed that she could not leave with me because one of
her friends was staying at her place. In this case, it was a
genuine problem that she needed to get solved. I simply asked her
whether she was with her. Since she was, I told her to give her the
key. She did and then we left. Within ten minutes, we were on the
way back to my flat.

The other reason that is often cited as an advantage of going out

with a wingman is that he can "take one for the team," meaning that
you get the more attractive girl while he does you a favor by
engaging the other one. In all seriousness, it takes someone with
rather low standards or downright masochistic tendencies to be
willing to engage in such behavior. If this happens, then you could
have gotten the hotter girl anyway. "Cock blocking" only goes so
far, and plenty of girls will gladly leave their girlfriends if
they really want to hook up with you.

Problem Cases

Now that the main justifications for enduring the presence of

wingmen have been dealt with, let's consider why else they are much
more of a liability than anything else. As I have found, theory
clashes with practice more often than not.

I almost always go out alone, and part of the reason for my rapid
development and my ability to seduce women within time spans that
are nearly unheard of in the seduction community ... often less
than ten minutes from meet to sex ... was my reliance on my own
abilities. I occasionally attempted picking up girls together with
friends, and it was not always a failure, but I always felt less
efficient. Matters of efficiency aside, here are some problems
which occur over and over, and which will only hold you back.

Problem Case 1: Your Wingman's Game Is Worse Than Yours

If you escalate on one girl and your wing on the other, there will
be a point where the girl checks up on her friend. For instance, if
she is already rubbing your crotch and begging for it while your
wing is playing "fuck, marry, kill" with the other girl, she will
most often just leave. The reasons are manifold, and they don't
really matter, but let's just list two: She could think that her
friend doesn't like your wing (because she is not physically
engaging him), or she may feel like a "slut" for making out with
you so quickly while her girlfriend is still reserved. On your own,
you would not have had any problem at all. Her friend would realize
your girl likes you and leave, or get told to leave. In the end,
it's all the same because you will get laid either way.

On a side note, a similar problem occurs if you attempt to pull two

girls on your own and you escalate too quickly on one of them. She
checks up on her friend, and because she realizes that she is less
turned on or less willing to play, your threesome will only take
place in your head.

Problem Case 2: Your Wingman Looks Better Than You

One of my friends in London has the looks of a male model and a

sense of style that is almost eerie. In fact, these days he works
as a fashion consultant. When I am out with him and merely talking
to a girl that is clearly interested in me, touching me all over
and giggling at my dumbest jokes, he simply has to roll up, throw
his arm around my shoulder, put on his Tom Cruise smile and chat
with me for a bit, and within seconds that girl will be all over
him.

In the best possible case she will ask me, "Oh my God, who is this
guy ?" and in the worst she will stretch out her hand and introduce
herself or just hug him, while I will be quickly forgotten. After
all, looks do matter, and if your task is to compete with a guy
that looks like a Greek god, the best game in the world won't help
you. His motives were honest, and we are still very good friends. I
mean, what is he supposed to do if he is just that good looking ?

On the plus side, he motivated me to figure out how to escalate as

quickly as possible. Once I am making out with a girl, his charms
are far less dangerous to my game. Yet, if you go out with a guy
against whom you pale in comparison, you might as well just stay at
home.

Problem Case 3: Your Wingman Doesn't Look Good

This is probably a much bigger issue for people who are willing to
meet up with "wings" from the Internet. The few times I have tried
when I was starting out in the game, I was often more than slightly
shocked at some people's sense of fashion.

So, what happens if you have learned your lesson and improved your
appearance as far as you could ... and go out with a guy who is
wearing clothes that don't suit him at all ? He will make you look
like a dork. You become guilty by association. It is that simple.
The only way to turn this to your advantage is if he approaches a
group of girls and you come in while they don't realize that he is
with you. This is more of a theoretical case, though, because if
this is an idea you want to play around with, you can just wait for
any dork to approach a group of girls and then take over the group.

Problem case 4: Attempting to Steal Sets

Especially among less advanced members of the community, there

seems to be a tendency for people just to want to leech off of you.
They are hoping you are going to approach groups of girls so that
they can sweep in when they see an opening. Because they lack
calibration, they will often ruin the chance for you as well. If
someone does something like that to you even once, your best bet is
to just cut them off. Delete their number from your phone.

Admittedly, some of those problem cases can be dealt with

preemptively by agreeing on a number of rules. But even if you do
that, you still have much less of an advantage than if you are out
alone. Even worse, once you have reached a certain level of skill,
a wingman can contribute absolutely nothing to your game.

For the more advanced people, I would like to point out some
further issues.

Wingmen Limit Your Flexibility

The problem of going out with groups is that you invariably settle
for the lowest common denominator. Eventually you go to a place
that none of you really likes, but that everybody "kind of agrees
with." On a lesser scale, this problem also haunts you when going
out with a wingman, and even if you do go to the place you wanted
to go to, after one hour you may find that there is no point in
staying in the venue. He may think otherwise.

Often the Wingman is Another Person to Take Care Of

With the exception of the most advanced guys, it generally seems to
be the case that you have to take care of your wingman in some
respect. Some always follow you around asking for advice. Some
actually never stray far from you and hover around you to find out
"what you are doing" when you are talking to a girl. Heck, they may
even find it important to tell you that they are going to get a
drink instead of just getting one. When it comes to clubs, most
people simply act somewhat insecure, afraid of being left alone.

They Are of No Help Once You Have Broken the Ice

How good is a wingman once the girl has taken an interest in you ?
I would wager that his existence is completely irrelevant. Your
girl won't even notice him. However, there are still plenty of guys
around that think they can "assist" you. I have little doubt that
some indeed think they help you by joining the conversation. What
they in fact do, though, is disturb the dynamics between you and
the girl. In the worst possible case, the girl may be concerned
that you have left your friend behind and think you are a not a
loyal person. As a "lone wolf," you won't face any of those
problems.

"Bros Before Hos"

This is probably the most annoying concept in the whole seduction

community. "Bros before hos" is apparently nothing more than the
weak attempt of weaker men to ensure they get some, and not a "code
of honor" as is so often claimed. A guy insisting on it is as bad
as the cock blocking friend of the girl you are talking to.

Here is why it can't work in practice: say you go out with two or
three other guys, and one of them is simply less competent or has a
mediocre presence. All the others could leave with their girls, but
won't because they want to "help a brother out." Unfortunately, the
window of opportunity in which you can leave with a girl invariably
gets smaller, and it's fairly common that if you are out with
someone that doesn't pull his own weight, then you will all leave
empty-handed.

Summary

After having discussed a variety of problems that come from going

out with wingmen, the question arises: why not simply go out alone
? For me, it is indeed the most plausible option, and my preferred
modus operandi. Many guys are afraid to do so, but apparently for
the reason that they are insecure.

Some fear that you won't get into clubs when you are on your own,
but the exact opposite is true. In fact, in the trendiest places it
is often easier to get in alone, because if you show up with other
people and only one doesn't meet with the approval of the doorman,
then all of you will get turned down. Once you are inside the club,
girls will not think you are weird when you tell them that you are
on your own. More often than not, they will be intrigued and tell
you that they wish they had the courage to go out alone as well.

Lastly, there is the wildly held belief that you need "social
proof" in a club, and that you will simply look weird if you are
alone. Going out alone never prevented me from getting laid.
Further, not once has anybody insinuated it was weird for me to be
out on my own, and with regards to "social proof," all I can say is
that this concept is at the very least vastly overrated if not
completely bogus. Nobody is watching you in the club because
everybody is too concerned with themselves. Thus, if you want to
get to the next level in your development, you may start to go out
alone. It will benefit you in ways you won't imagine.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR: Aaron Sleazy first gained notoriety on mASF

(http://www.cliffslist.com/link/If) as a reputed master of the art
of very fast seduction, often able to escalate to sex within
minutes in a night club. He has given an in-depth interview
(http://www.cliffslist.com/link/hx) with Cliff's List detailing his
methods and background, and is the author of Sleazy Stories
(http://www.cliffslist.com/link/hy).

PROMO: Aaron Sleazy

Aaron Sleazy is proud to announce that Sleazy Stories (

http://www.cliffslist.com/link/hy) is now available in paperback.
This book is a collection of his craziest adventures, and it
chronicles his development into one of the most infamous seducers
on the planet, renowned for his ability to seduce women within
minutes.

Interestingly enough, Sleazy Stories (

http://www.cliffslist.com/link/hy) serves different purposes for
different people. Women have found it to be a worthwhile piece of
erotic literature, while men, especially those involved in
seduction, reported that it helped them to improve their game.
Primarily, though, it's intended to be an entertaining read. In the
words of one of the editors, it made him "feel like a badass," and
that's certainly an emotion worth spreading.

Sleazy Stories (http://www.cliffslist.com/link/hy) is a very well

produced paperback, printed on high-quality creme paper. You can
download two sample chapters, which are available here (
http://www.cliffslist.com/link/hz) and here (
http://www.cliffslist.com/link/i0).

Be sure to mention that you heard about this offer on Cliff's List !

Cliff's List Inc. 14525 SW Millikan Way, #8738, Beaverton,

OR 97005-2343

Please advise by email first before sending mail to this address.

To unsubscribe or change subscriber options visit:

http://www.aweber.com/z/r/?TEwcrJystCwMnBxMjIyctEa0rOysnCwMrA==