Precision Marketing,

Phish, & The Future of

Television

Here are the session details.

Alicia Dietz:

You may have heard the wonderful news that TransUnion purchased Neustar,
making us a part of the TransUnion family as of right now. Considering this, we
decided to start the new year with a special guest: Matt Spiegel, our newest
employee. At TransUnion, Matt started the media vertical and marketing
solutions business. Matt is well-known in the advertising world. Prior to joining
TransUnion, he co-founded Resolution Media,

an integrated performance marketing agency, with the managing director of

Medialink, the CEO of Omnicom Media Group Digital, and the CEO of Annalect
Marketplaces.

Welcome to No Hype, Matt.

Matt Spiegel: Yeah. Thank you. Great to be here. Mr. Brett

House Thank you for coming, Matt. So, we only got a quick overview of your

past, a dummy-proof version.

What event in your career would you single out as being

crucial, perhaps even transformative, and sort of setting you on the course

you're currently on?

MS: In many respects, that background touched on several

important points. It was pure luck that I was able to start this firm. I just
so happened to start my career in digital marketing right out of college in the

late 1990s, when people were still debating the value of the internet. And the

company I initially joined—long tale, won't tell—went out of business very

fast, but I was already addicted to this industry. And the fact that I fell

into this category was just a fortuitous happenstance. Then, without a doubt,

when I started Resolution Media, my career took a turn that, in my opinion, is

the most exciting portion of the trajectory. When we established the company,

there were just four or five employees working in the Chicago Google office.

They now have their own structure. Then, selling that to Omnicom was
extremely

significant. Moreover, I was able to assume a more significant role at Omnicom.

I worked in the advertising industry for a total of six years. Although I

frequently jokingly refer to myself as an accidental agency man, the time I

spent there early in my career was extremely, extremely valuable. I learned a

lot about how large marketers consider how to change in this market.

AD: You've been actively managing TransUnion's marketing

solutions division in the media vertical, as many of our listeners may already

be aware. What motivated you to take your career to the next level? How did
you

enter TransUnion and how did you begin?

MS: I agree. So, before joining TransUnion, I began

consulting, as many people do when they are unsure of their career goals. Thus,

BH says, "We've all been there."

AD: I recognize.

 
MS: I agree. I spent six years working in the agency

industry before returning to a start-up venture, which, let's just say, didn't

go as planned. I immediately realized that I was unsure about what to do next.

I, therefore, opened my own consulting business knowing that it would probably

only last a short while. However, I was fortunate to meet the Media link folks

and ended up spending a total of five years doing some interesting consulting,

spending four years at Media link, and one year on my own. for myself. And in

many instances, I had a cool seat at the table where I could offer advice on

management strategy, tech strategy, data strategy, and other related topics.

As a result, I began to understand that the market was

prepared for what I probably would have referred to as the next generation of

identity-enabled firms after having done that and, in fact, after TransUnion

had been a client on that journey. And because my intersection of strategy has

always been where data and technology meet media, I was rather thrilled about

it.

So, TransUnion was a company with real, strong assets to

play in that market, but it was still in the early stages of business

development.

BH: I adore the identity-enabled enterprises you mentioned.

And after all of these acquisitions through Optic, Signal, innovation, and

Neustar, some individuals have disparaged TransUnion as a consolidator in the

marketing solutions sector, which I don't think is a fair assertion. To

elaborate on what you just said, what do you think the true value of these

acquisitions and these identity-enabled enterprises is?

 
MS: I agree. We probably wouldn't understand that point if

the word "consolidator" had a negative connotation. We've acquired

quite a few things, so I don't believe there are any. Listen, major businesses

frequently require some outside motivation to truly begin in new areas. And if

you think back to where TransUnion was ten years ago, it was still firmly

rooted in its role as a credit reporting organization. Even now, ten years

later, that still constitutes a sizable portion of what TransUnion performs.

And too, I believe, pivot the business—which wasn't my idea; I was simply a

part of it—into one that is actually much more, as we discuss it,

Now, I firmly believe that everyone who is. If the idea is

that outsiders tell you to innovate as well from the inside, then that is what

they are saying.

Absolutely agree. And I believe that we now have the teams

and resources necessary to make that happen. And without a doubt, I believe

you'll see a tonne of innovation from what our merged firm in a lot of

different sectors is now.

AD: Therefore, this concept kind of combines all the

purchases that you have been mentioning as well as some of the assets that

TransUnion was also brought to the table.

MS: I agree. And what's crucial, in my opinion, is that

TransUnion cares about identity in all its businesses, not just marketing; this

includes our fraud and credit businesses. in the consumer goods industry. And

there are various flavors of identity. Additionally, identity resolution is the

term most frequently [00:08:30] used in marketing to describe identification.

How do we know who we are when we're connected to various devices, what
constitutes

a connected home, what connections exist between people, etc.?

And listen, I believe we have entered a world where data is

the fuel that drives marketing effectiveness. This has been true for the last

ten years. I agree with that.

And so, if you want to deliver that, if you, as a marketer,

as a business, as a media organization, or whatever it is, want to engage with

customers in a tailored way, in a friction-right way, is what we at TransUnion

frequently say. Although there is some friction, there is only the correct

amount of friction.

You can only do that if you have a thorough understanding of

customer and identity data. Therefore, it is not an understatement to suggest

that the concept of identity resolution and, more generally, identity, is a vital

the tenet of a digitally driven world, both from a commercial and promotional

standpoint.

BH: So, in terms of that phrase identity, we've seen a lot

of uncertainty in the industry. Additionally, I'd like to apply the Socratic

technique by, "Define our terminology.

What are we discussing? “It often depends on who is speaking

when this idea of identity is being discussed. Do you believe it to be another

word for humans or just an attempt to piece together signals to roughly

represent a person?

MS: I agree. And I think you're right that the word

"identity" might imply 5,000 different things to 5,000 different

people. But it's obvious, in my opinion, that understanding individual is a

necessary component of identity resolution. And it is our responsibility in

that area to ensure that we educate banks and other financial service providers

about their creditworthiness and ask them, "Is this the person you think

they are? “At its foundation, this is an identity resolution problem that

requires extremely high fidelity to solve.

BH: That cannot be misunderstood.

MS: That can't be wrong. That's accurate. In marketing,

there is a lot more space for error. And the reason we're interested in playing

that identity resolution game for marketing is that it enables us to once more

provide the customized experiences about which we previously spoke.

AD: What advice do you have for advertisers and agencies as

Do they sort through the various identity solutions?

MS: Listen, I think it's obvious, but each company develops

in its own way when you step back and look at it. And I've now reached a place

where I can support a variety of tactics if they are effective. What do I mean

by that, then? Listen, I think if I had my way, businesses would be structured

top-down around a data-driven marketing strategy that aimed to harmonize

data

silos, sought to be exceedingly individualized in their marketing endeavors,

and sought to be driven mostly by analysis.

AD: That is a utopian idea.

MS: You're right; it does sound a touch idealistic.

BH: You start with the organizational structure and the

personnel, and then you move on.

MS: I agree. That's how you would approach it in a textbook,

but in practice, things frequently don't develop that way for a variety of
valid reasons. Additionally, it is both a process and a people problem. A billion-
dollar

the company can't easily be destroyed to attempt something new. Practically

speaking, that's just not how the world operates. So, as you start advising,

I've become extremely at ease from that standpoint as you search for pockets
of

innovation to implement bottom-up. I'm good. Then, if you were able to secure

agreement and support for some intriguing tactics.

AD: We're aware that they exist.

MS: We've lost sight of the fact that the best strategy is

to test and learn. Make strides, test things, find what works, and then do more

of it. I understand that it's challenging given the current state of the

ecology, which is characterized by a great deal of noise and a strong sense of

urgency. The better mentality, in my opinion, is to act, advance, and change.

BH: I agree. And refine.

AD: I agree. Move in that direction. I thought it was

incredibly essential that you mentioned using data and monitoring success. And

it goes without saying that I hold that in high regard coming from the

analytics industry. So, I'm curious about the process you use to establish

those KPIs. How do you decide what the best yardstick for success is?

MS: I'd be very interested in learning more about your

company. And I would feel a lot more at ease knowing that it couldn't just be

about the bottom line. The bottom line cannot be the only consideration
because

if it were, you wouldn't be engaging in real research and development. If

everything must show an immediate favorable ROI, you are not genuinely
testing
and learning.

The next step is to determine which proxies should be used

to guide that strategy. Additionally, you must allocate this R&D plan a

a little portion of your marketing budget rather than the bulk of it. And each

the company should take steps to identify what they feel comfortable
experimenting

with, attempting, and working to demonstrate whether it influences the bottom

line in some way. Because, once more, if you choose to experiment with social

media, search, or connected television and you simply use the same ROI

calculations you do for your tried-and-true methods, it's likely that the

tried-and-true methods will work better and you won't be happy, but you might

be missing out on a long-term opportunity.

BH: I agree. So, it appears to be confirmation bias. When

you conduct an experiment based on a pre-existing premise and your

tried-and-true procedures, you may be searching for specific outcomes that

could manifest differently when approached through a different channel.

Therefore, here's a brief

MS: I agree. Listen. That is the proper course of action as

an extension and incremental growth plan. Using your tested approach is OK

if...If

you're not trying something entirely new, you might be experimenting with a
new

media source. Okay, we'll apply the same techniques. You're using the same

methodology while attempting a new creation, but if you're trying to

substantially alter your marketing strategy. Again, marketing's objectives have

not altered over the years. There are simply various approaches. I speak with
marketing clients and even nearby businesses who inquire, "Well, what do

we do?"

Are you trying to connect with any new audiences? But I

assure you, you'll start by using data analytics; it will be the key to

whatever you're doing. A lot of those factors and the actual business scenario

should have an impact on the solution that you employ. And I would advise

everyone hear who is trying to decide what to do with this information to do

just that. These problems have never been fully resolved by technology. It
serves

as an enabler for some company strategies; therefore, you need to identify

which ones are most important to you.

BH: I agree. You've discussed digital video, linked TV, and

back into the problem you're trying to solve before starting to address it. I'd

want to change the subject to television because I know you've talked about it

frequently in relation to other events. It has undergone a significant

makeover. Customers consume material on screens of varying sizes and in a

variety of settings. What do you currently define TV as? Is it a channel with

content? Has the definition changed? Is it an advertising channel? And what

should advertisers consider regarding future television and digital video

advertising?

MS: I agree. I spent a few years consulting and soliciting

definitions of "television" from numerous individuals. There is also

no consistency.

It's a fascinating word. I believe it will become the

abbreviation we use for what I refer to as the TV industry, which I suppose

means most when we are clear in our communication.

AD: Do you mean big screen or tiny screen when you say,

"full screen"?

MS: No, any size screen; the screen is what matters. I don't

consider the business of television to be a video that runs under a banner

advertisement. When I think of the television industry, I picture myself

watching video content that fills my entire screen. I'm focusing on that

screen, whatever it may be. So once more, I'm not viewing clips while navigating

through a feed. That doesn't strike me as being part of the television

industry. Video advertising is that.

AD: There are numerous terms. In terms of how we describe

television today, there are several terms out there, like linear TV, linked TV,

addressable TV, and others. Additionally, there are words that are common in

the field. How do you balance those clauses?

MS: At the end of the day, I suppose they are basically just

phrases used in ad buying. The contrast I would make is that when we think of

the...

This is an incredible time to be working in the industry of

producing and delivering content. If you will, big media There are several

challenges right now.

There is undoubtedly tremendous pressure on their ad income

side of the business, but in the meanwhile, Clearly, Netflix is a very powerful

media corporation and the hardware firms like Roku, LG, and Samsung are now

media companies as well. In contrast to everything that is supplied through

some type of digital pipe, some type of streaming ecosystem, you do buy

impressions and you have dynamic ad insertion for things that are still
delivered through a set-top box, some type of linear, the old television feed.

That represents a significant shift in the ecosystem's operation from the

standpoint

of advertising.

AD: In terms of the serving method.

AD: However, the manner it is consumed differs greatly from

the way it is consumed in other ways and is frequently on a large screen. That

is why I posed the big screen vs. tiny screen question.

MS: I agree. The consumer, however, is unconcerned with this

distinction. You are correct. However, because the ad-buying strategies are so

dissimilar, our sector is sadly still required to care. We love to care less.

Regardless of the screen, the entire conversation is a real converged video

environment. I fully support moving in that direction; it's the proper thing to

do. However, if you do have two distinct. Purchasing models make it extremely

difficult to carry out that task at a true scale.

BH: And is that because the buying model specifies who in an

organization oversees managing that process? Your linear guys will thus

concentrate on linear. The digital programmatic ad-buying for television

frequently falls into the digital camp, where there is budget competition. Do

you realize how significant a gap needs to be bridged across that divide? Not

even close to being as large as it was when I worked at the agency, what? added

ten years ago. It was popular ten years ago. It remains today. There are still

those silos and more to be destroyed, although not to the same extent as

before. Even if they haven't fully operationalized it, I believe most

individuals understand that interaction and synergy are important.

AD: particularly in terms of reach and frequency to your

prior point, you may strike in two distinct ways, right? How can you be

confident that Matt has 72 times with the same advertisement throughout linear

and connected? An identical device is used; it is merely delivered through a

different method.

MS: We offer technology, data, and identification

capabilities to address these cross-platform issues, including identifying

users across platforms and delivering performance-enhancing analytics. We

spend

our time there and do what we want to do there. We want to assist sellers and

marketers in improving that.

It’s not a data challenge. Most of the information you

require is already available. It's an operational difficulty with the company

concept. And yes, some of that does involve soiling. Additionally, there are

various budgets and camps, but what's important, in my opinion, is that we're

constantly coming up with new plumbing, piping, and working methods. You
have

the biggest marketers, the smallest start-ups, the DTC people, and those who

solely sell through other channels. There are so many various forms of this

market that I just believe the time we are currently experiencing is one in

which innovation is taking place.

BH: Yeah. Therefore, when it comes to video content and

other content, all the sensors are pointing in the direction of an automated

dynamic ad-serving, ad delivery procedure. Due to various delivery approaches,

it's simply not there yet.

MS: Yes. The probable exception is that some people are

significantly more optimistic than others about dynamic ad insertion coming to

television. I refer to conventional linear television powered by set-top boxes.

We won't likely see it anytime soon, in my opinion. I'm not persuaded that we

always see it. And as a result, I believe we will continue to have some of

these operational difficulties, but what will develop over time is.

AD: Considering this, do you still regard it as a

top-of-funnel strategy for businesses, or what role do shop ability and sales

play? Joanna O'Connell, who was recently on the program, stated that one of
the

buzzwords she has been hearing for 2022 are "commerce, commerce,

commerce."

MS: There is no doubt in my mind that I am optimistic about

commerce occurring through a variety of channels. Furthermore, I don't see any

evidence to support the notion that advertising using sight, sound, and motion

is exclusively effective at the top of the funnel. We are already aware that

this is untrue. Right. And listen, it got there because it was born during a

time when TV wasn't distributed in a way that allowed for massive commerce in

sight, sound, and motion advertising.

And because television was so expensive, the only

advertisers who spent any money there were huge brand billing advertisers,

which continued to support this. If you look at DTC brands, a lot of money is

now being spent on television. And they are frequently extremely

knowledgeable,

analytically motivated marketers. To comprehend the impact that television is

having, they are undoubtedly examining whether it is a medium mix modeling or

some other type of attribution.

BH: Yeah. And before the podcast, we talked about how

connecting... I've spoken to a lot of CMOs for large companies outside of the

direct-to-consumer market who are amazing at generating huge audiences, even

if

they aren't well-targeted, and who are also terrific at the customer

acquisition aspect of it. So, when you're further down the funnel and you

receive that email because you asked an automotive dealer to give you a test

drive,

MS: I agree. I mean, I believe this probably ties together a

couple of the topics we've been discussing, namely, that this is the journey to

begin on, that you should decide what you want to prove first and start moving

since you won't get to perfect your first step, and that this is the path to

start on. And feel secure in the knowledge that whatever you try first probably

won't be the only option. Then acknowledge that identifying, taking new

measurements, microsegments, and understanding your audience is important.

Break the connection, eliminate the data silos, and consider measuring new

things. These are the steps that will enable those links because they are

feasible. Simply move forward and determine if you want to use this example, in

my opinion. You want to take a campaign for a specific make and model of

automobile that is linked to dealers, analyze that relationship, develop a

measurement model to support that campaign initiative, and then observe what

you learn.

Repeat the process if it works. Try a new approach if it

doesn't work.

BH: Just try to make the process of getting from point A to

point C is more transparent.

MS: I agree. It's difficult, I know. Many businesses haven't

applied the kind of data science rigor, experience, and human resources
necessary to achieve that in marketing.

Most businesses lack that. Find partners to help you out if

you can't make the investment yourself. Once more, technology and tools are a

part of it, but you also need people and assistance. Therefore, either employ

additional personnel or secure those who can respond to those inquiries

through

your partners.

I've mastered the art of posing these queries. I've come to

understand that asking questions is the key to data science and data modeling,

but many individuals lack that experience, so I believe you need to find

someone at the table who can support you in doing so and give you confidence

that you're on the right path. And I believe it to be...Listen, many people

become immobilized. There are many novel things to try.

BH: There's a lot of math involved. There is a lot of math,

MS.

AD: You guys shouldn't be afraid of math. It only requires

asking the right questions. That information was, in my opinion, useful.

BH: I agree. And if we could see development in the sort of

hyped-up phrases that have been bandied about since the inception of digital

media, such as consumer journey marketing, journey analytics, and

personalization, "Oh, look at all this information. With it, we may do great

things. “The majority of that hasn't materialized in my experience as a

consumer, except for a few businesses. So, it would be beneficial to observe.

You are correct; we are moving forward and on the right path.

MS: I agree. And listen, I believe you contribute something

crucial. I would advise you to adopt as much of the consumer's perspective as

you can, which is to consider, if you want to, yourself as a consumer, at the
very least as anecdotally, caring. Or by any stretch of the imagination, not

normal consumers. But far too frequently, as consumers, we forget the kinds of

things that surprise and delight us. And if we can at least start there, I

think we can offer some worthwhile interest and insights. It doesn't mean

accomplishing exactly what we want, but we all know that we prefer simple,

specialized, personalized experiences that deliver more than they promise.

AD: I think our conversation was excellent. I suppose I'm

merely extremely curious. Trends, identity, and television have all been topics

of extensive discussion. What are the three key issues that marketers should
focus

on in 2022?

MS: I agree. It's difficult to limit the list to three.

AD: What is the most important thing?

MS: Well, I guess there is some confirmation bias in this

response, but I still believe that the root of it all is understanding and

having a good ecosystem for understanding whom you are reaching and how
you are

reaching them. And the foundation for understanding individuals is strong

identification, identity resolution, and marketing data attributes.

BH: Matt, your discussion of accuracy makes me consider the

importance of "data-driven decisions," which is a key part of that

because data is used to make judgments. Heavy-duty arithmetic and machine

learning are involved in that. When I reflect on some of the most significant

interactions I've had with a company as a customer, music frequently comes to

mind. I'll also bring up the subject of music. Spotify has had to be the most

effective customization engine I've ever used in terms of understanding my

behavior, my interests, and how to provide recommendations that will surprise

me.

MS: I am.

BH: have you survived the pandemic? Has there ever been

anything that really struck a chord with you?

MS: I agree. I agree that identity and data are undoubtedly

there behind all of those platforms, which is a really good argument. And yeah,

I would spend every single night of the year—I don't know how many—going to

concerts. I'm a mixture of different things. I spend a lot of time listening to

the, quote, "jam band" scene. I like Phish, which will enrage some

people and please others. Therefore, there is unquestionably that dimension. I

also enjoy rock that has a jazzy flavor Grey is a fantastic artist, according

to Ms. Nehemiah Rateliff I enjoy music with a guitar, horns, unique bass, and
drumbeats.

BH: Good. It goes smoothly.

AD: My 2022 Wrapped will make you all very unhappy.

AD: I'm quite jealous because it doesn't even come close to

the degree of complexity you guys are discussing.

MS: Don't get me wrong; I enjoy that sort of thing as well. That

was definitely pushed by my children as well.

BH: I agree. For me, the year 2022 has felt a bit like a

trip into the past. It reminded me of the music I used to listen to when I was

younger. A notable one is the late Miles Davis.

MS: Love it.

AD: Well, Matt, we really appreciate your joining us. It was

wonderful to talk to you. This was enjoyable. It was wonderful to hear about

your experience, and your opinions on the market, and to learn a little bit
more about the TransUnion clan. We appreciate your time and look forward to

speaking with you again.

BH: Matt, thank you.

Thank you 💜