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Supporting Low Serotonin and
Low GABA as Part of Trauma
Therapy with Trudy Scott, CN
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The Trauma/Autoimmune
Biology and Personality with
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP
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 1

Supporting Low Serotonin

and Low GABA as Part of
Trauma Therapy
Trudy Scott, CN

Dr. Aimie: Welcome to The Biology of Trauma
Summit. I’m your host, Dr. Aimie. And today I have
someone with me who’s become a good friend,
and this is none other than Trudy Scott. She’s
a food mood expert and certified nutritionist,
founder of the Anxiety Nutrition Institute; author
of The Anti-Anxiety Food Solution. And I have
known Trudy for several years now. And we
shared the stage when we gave our talks for The
Future of Health, at Mindshare.  serotonin and low GABA, because both of those
And her talk was amazing. And she shared how
much of an introvert she is. And some of the
different techniques that she has used, some of
the biochemistry that she has discovered, as part
of that social anxiety and what to do about it. So
I was blown away, I wanted to definitely invite
her because she has such a knowledge of the
biochemistry. 
And when we look at anxiety, stress, trauma,
PTSD, this is a huge area that we can intervene
and actually change our biochemistry. So
welcome, Trudy, thank you so much for your
time with us today. And I’m really looking
forward to our conversation today around
neurotransmitters, biology, geeking out over
some of the science, and giving people some very
effective tools to walk away with.  neurotransmitters in PTSD?
share our expertise with other practitioners. And
yes, there is so much that we can do in terms of
biochemistry and balancing neurotransmitters,
and addressing nutritional deficiency, so we can
feel good. So it’s really exciting to be able to share
what we know and help so many people. 
Dr. Aimie: Awesome. Now one of the first things
that I wanted to start off with is talking about low
neurotransmitters are essential for the nervous
system to be in a state where it is calm, regulated.
And many people, even coming out of childhood,
if they’ve had any kind of insecure attachment or
even family dynamics where their nervous system
was not regulated, maybe they had to kind of be
guessing the environment and what to do, how to
behave in order to get their needs met. 
They’re coming out of childhood with some
of these low neurotransmitter levels, setting
them up for stress. But then, we also know
that traumatic experiences later in life can also
impact these neurotransmitters. So I would love
for you to even just be able to start with big
picture serotonin deficiency, GABA deficiency.
What are people looking at? And what do they
need to know when it comes to those two
 

Trudy: Well, thanks for having me. And it was a Trudy: Well, let me just share some quotes
pleasure sharing the stage with you. It was very from a paper because firstly, it’s becoming more
exciting to have the opportunity to get up and recognized that these neurotransmitters do play

The Biology of Trauma

 2
a role when there’s trauma, post-traumatic stress.
What’s less recognized is that we can actually
do something about it, using amino acids. And
we’ll go into which amino acids you use for low
serotonin and which amino acid you would use
for low GABA. 
And then there’s something that we can actually
do to get those levels up. So you’re starting to
feel better while you’re dealing with the therapy
or other methods to help with the trauma. So
it’s not one or the other. We want to be using
everything that we can. But I found a paper that
was published in 2020, which summarizes it very
nicely. I’ll just read the name of the paper here,
Challenges of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder in
Iraq: Biochemical Network and Methodologies, a
Brief Review.
And they’re talking about the cortisol imbalances
and the neuro endocrine imbalances. And let me
just read a few of the things that they mention
because I think it’s very pertinent to today’s
interview. Certainly they talk about, with PTSD,
we’ve got dysfunctions in the hypothalamic
pituitary adrenal axis, and they also mentioned
the thyroid as well. So it’s affecting all of our
hormones, all of our neurotransmitters.  these levels are low. And we’re still hoping to see
Then they talk about the sympathetic nervous
system activity playing a role in PTSD by releasing
norepinephrine and epinephrine. And then
cortisol released from the adrenal cortex amplifies
it. So we’ve got this high cortisol, people are in
this over sympathetic drive. Then they mentioned
women. Cortisol levels in PTSD patients, especially
women, are later reduced because we’ve got this
negative feedback mechanism.  that threat response, the body, the nervous
So initially, we have high cortisol and then it ends
up being low. And they also talk about women
being more vulnerable to this. But then finally,
they say serotonin, dopamine levels were found
to be abnormal in the presence of PTSD. We’re
The Biology of Trauma
seeing less research that talks about GABA. But
certainly, there was another paper that was
published in 2021 that talked about plasma
gamma aminobutyric acid levels and post-
traumatic stress disorder. 
And they found, they say GABA, which is the
brain’s primary inhibitory neurotransmitter. In
other words, it’s the calming neurotransmitter,
plays a key role in stress recovery. Now, the
studies on GABA are a little bit mixed, some of
them say high GABA, some of them say its low
GABA. But we definitely know that there’s this
dysregulation of GABA and serotonin. And there’s
something we can do about it, that’s the exciting
thing.
We know that there’s this research talking about
it, I will say that there is no research saying,
“This is the amino acid that you use to raise
serotonin levels, if you have PTSD. And this is
the amino acid you take to raise GABA levels, if
you have PTSD.” We haven’t got to that yet. We
do see that clinically. We do see research on
serotonin support and gather support with other
conditions. So I just want to put that out there. So
in summary, we know from the research that
more research to show this kind of support when
it comes to trauma and PTSD. 
Dr. Aimie: And this makes so much sense
because when you look at the nervous system,
and its role in the survival and the threat
response, it definitely releases that adrenaline,
first of all, and then the cortisol. And depending
on whether a person is actually able to complete
system may be stuck in sympathetic, and
then depleting your cortisol, depleting those
neurotransmitters even further. So this makes
sense that depending on whether it’s an acute
thing, and whether it turns into something
chronic, will make a big difference about the
 3

neurotransmitter levels, and the different
abnormalities and imbalances that you’re going to
see in those.  then they try to get off and their anxiety is even
Trudy: Absolutely, and you made a good point
there, is when you’ve got this high cortisol, that
is going to affect the neurotransmitters as well.
So you’ve got to address the cortisol and there’s
various ways that we can do that. But that can
have a downstream effect on other hormones.
And it can have a downstream effect on the
neurotransmitters like serotonin and GABA,
as well. And then dopamine as well. So yeah,
it becomes this vicious cycle. I call it the sort
of merry dance that we have going on, how
everything’s affecting everything else.  and the benzodiazepines, we know now can
Dr. Aimie: Absolutely. And a lot of what I’m seeing
clinically, of course, are people coming in, and
they’ve had these symptoms, a lot of the people
that I’m seeing have just had a hard life. Like, they
have some specific events in their life that were
more traumatic than others, but overall, like, it’s
just been a really hard life for them. And they’re
having symptoms of these low neurotransmitters.  monitored. But it does need to be done really,
And they may have seen other providers who
have used the tools that they know and started
them on medications. And especially when it
comes to anxiety symptoms and PTSD symptoms,
they’re looking at either trying them on an
antidepressant in order to try to address those
low serotonin symptoms, or they’re starting them
on a benzodiazepine to address really the GABA
system.  to be really, really, really slow. And it could be
And yet, what we know from these studies and
from the research papers is that these systems
are that much more vulnerable to becoming
dependent on those substances when they
are used in that scenario, because you’re not
looking at the root cause and what’s driving those
neurotransmitters to be low. So it may provide
an immediate relief, and yet people are getting
stuck on those medications. And that’s usually
not the quality of life that they’re looking for. And
worse, because those substances have actually
driven those normal, natural levels of their
neurotransmitters to be even lower. 
Trudy: Yes, and then they end up in this terrible
situation where they’re trying to taper and they
get rebound symptoms. Often, they’ll go into the
doctor, they’re feeling worse, and now they’ll be
told, “Up your medication,” and then they need
higher and higher doses, and it gets worse. And
then when they do try and taper, the symptoms
often are very difficult. And tapering for the SSRIs
sometimes take years for some people.
There’s certainly a subset of people that have a
really, really difficult time tapering. And anytime
someone is considering tapering, they do need
to work with your doctor. If I’m working with
someone who wants to do that, I’ll work in
conjunction with their doctor so they can be
really slowly. And I actually had someone the
other day say to me, “I was put on a slow taper for
my SSRI, a two week taper and that was slow.” I
said, “No, no, that’s not slow.
Dr. Aimie: That is not slow.
Trudy: Unfortunately, a lot of doctors who are
prescribing these are not aware that it needs
months, three months, four months, it could
be even a year. Some people take two years to
taper. So, I’m glad you brought up the medication
aspect. 
[10:00]
Dr. Aimie: And what I’ve seen is that there’s many
different kinds of symptoms that a person may

The Biology of Trauma

 4
experience when coming off of those medications.
It’s not just the mood symptoms, because those
neurotransmitters act on every aspect of our
physiology, our biology. So many people are
even having digestive symptoms, or muscles and
tissues aching or painful or stiff. Symptoms that
they never would have related to the initial reason
for starting that medication.  serotonin? And then how would a person know
But we know that serotonin is throughout the
whole body, and certainly more is in the gut than
even in the brain. And with the benzodiazepines,
obviously, that’s affecting the whole entire
nervous system. And so it can be a really harsh
reality, when a person goes to taper off of those
and sees, “Oh, wow, like this is how much it
actually has been affecting my whole body. Not
just that one mood or symptom that I had started
it for.”
Trudy: Yes, and some people are put on a
benzodiazepine for pain. A client of mine was
put on a benzo after a dental surgery and
started to get anxiety as a result of being on the
benzodiazepine. So, sometimes you get these
mood symptoms that you didn’t even have before,
because of the benzodiazepine. So, it’s a problem.
And then there are confounding factors. The folks
that I found that have a harder time coming of
the benzodiazepines are those that have used a
fluoroquinolone antibiotic.
Maybe been on birth control, maybe also on an
SSRI, being on an antifungal medication, and
consume alcohol, and that’s common, and on an
opioid. So if you’ve got that combination, it can
make it more difficult to taper. So there’s many,
many variables that can play into this. So using
the amino acids to get to the root cause of that
low serotonin or that low GABA makes the most
sense, on just so many different levels.  see with low serotonin, regardless of whether
Dr. Aimie: And this is what will be the best in
terms of addressing those symptoms, even if
they’re not on a medication yet, or if they are
The Biology of Trauma
on that medication, to help them taper because
you really are supporting the body’s and the
brain’s natural ability to make more of those
neurotransmitters. So, let’s start, Trudy, with
talking about what would be the symptoms? 
How would a person know that they have low
that they have low GABA? Because even though
they have similar results in terms of modulating
mood, anxiety, depression, they do look different.
So let’s start there so that people even just have
a general idea of, “Hmm, that may be me. Maybe
I need to be looking at what amino acids can
specifically support that system.”
Trudy: Okay, so with low serotonin, it’s more
the mental anxiety. So, the worry, the fear, panic
attacks. Now there is this overlap, as you say, with
both low serotonin and low GABA, we will have,
obviously anxiety, but we’ll also have insomnia. So
that is common in both of them. And then if you
have had some kind of trauma, you might have
some specific symptoms that are related to the
trauma. You might relive the trauma. You might
ruminate about what happened.
You might lie awake, imagining the worst. So,
often with the low serotonin, insomnia, it’s lying
awake, and ruminating. And in the case, if you’ve
had some sort of trauma, you might be imagining
what could happen in the future. You may have
these recurrent distressing memories of the
event. So it’s all in the head, and it’s just, you can’t
switch the mind off. The fear that this trauma
is going to happen again, hopeless, depressed,
negative, suicidal. 
And then the other common symptoms that we
you’ve been exposed to some kind of traumatic
situation, are PMS because it’s affecting the sex
hormones, irritability, anger issues, lashing out,
cravings, cravings in the afternoon and in the
 5

evening, because serotonin takes a dip later
in the day, and then low self-esteem, imposter
syndrome.  we’re using tryptophan or 5-HTP to address the
A lot of people relate to imposter syndrome,
certainly the woman that I work with, saying,
“Who am I to be doing this? Should I be getting
on stage speaking about this?” That would be an
example of imposter syndrome. Even when you’re
really qualified and experienced to do something
like that. So these are all common low serotonin
symptoms.  initially when I started doing this work that it was
And the way I figure it out with my clients is I’ve
got a questionnaire and they will check off which
of these symptoms they have and rate their
symptoms on a scale of 1 to 10. And then we’ll
do a trial with the amino acid, and see how we
can shift these. And the amino acids are amazing.
They shift things really quickly. And I’ll be happy to
talk about which amino acids I use and how much,
and when we use them. But I wanted to see if you
wanted me to go through to the GABA, low GABA
symptoms first, and then we can come back to
how we address both of them.  through their neck and their head. They’ve got
Dr. Aimie: Yeah, let’s address GABA. And one
thing with the serotonin that as you’re saying, all
the different symptoms. It makes me remember
that even in like obsessive compulsive disorder,
that also has low serotonin activity. And so,
even though a person may not have gone into
that level of obsession, just those ruminating
thoughts, where they just keep coming back to
the same thought or the same fear, and it’s kind
of circulating, and you’re not able to get out of
that cycle, that is definitely the feature of that low
serotonin.  can be sugar with low GABA but it’s typically
Trudy: Yes. And that was one of the symptoms
I left out, which was the obsessing or full blown
OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder. And
addressing low serotonin can help that as well, to
some extent, and then we sometimes use other
nutrients as well, like inositol can really help as
well, in addition to the tryptophan. So in this case,
low serotonin. 
And then the low GABA is very different. It
also has the anxiety and there are sometimes
intrusive thoughts with low GABA. There was a
paper that came out, I think, about two years ago,
where they found that GABA helped to reduce
unwanted intrusive thoughts. And I’d been taught
more the low serotonin. And I was starting to
get feedback from people saying, “GABA really
helped.” And I thought, “Well, could that really
happen?”
And we got this research coming out that was
showing that we can see low GABA when people
have these intrusive thoughts. That’s typically
low serotonin but it can be this overlap. But
with the low GABA, it’s this physical tension, you
might see someone sitting with their shoulders
hunched. They can feel the tension going up
stiffen tense muscles. So, it’s more physical. And
then sometimes specific to the trauma would
be shaking, maybe. So you’ve got this physical
tension and you’re shaking. Maybe when you’re
thinking about the traumatic event, when you’re
reliving some of those experiences. 
And then, often with the low GABA, we self-
medicate with alcohol. So just like with the low
serotonin, we have these cravings. With any of the
neurotransmitter deficiencies, we have this need
to self-medicate with something to feel better. It
alcohol because alcohol tends to be relaxing. And
certainly if you’re in a social setting, and you’re
feeling this low GABA physical tension, using that
alcohol can make people feel a little bit calmer.
Dr. Aimie: Well, the alcohol and marijuana do

The Biology of Trauma

 6
increase the GABA activity. So yeah, it makes
sense that they would be reaching for those
substances in order to, just intuitively, like
increase their GABA activity that will help their
nervous system feel better.  “Oh my gosh, there’s no way it could work that
Trudy: Yeah, absolutely. And it can be anything. I
mean, for some people, its alcohol, someone else,
its marijuana, someone else, it might be street
drugs. For someone, it might be chocolate. They
might say, “Well, I’ve got to have that chocolate,
it’s my comfort, it’s my reward.” Now that tends
to be a different neurotransmitter; that tends to
be low endorphins, when you have the sort of
commitment and this reward and, “My treat.”
And we’ll often see those neurotransmitters to
be low when someone has had trauma as well,
because it’s a reward. It’s comforting, it’s helping
them feel good. But using the questionnaire,
rating symptoms, and then doing a trial of the
respective amino acids is what we’re aiming for.
So going back to the low serotonin, when you
have these symptoms, we do a trial of either
tryptophan or 5-HTP. And both of these help to
raise serotonin levels.
I tend to start with tryptophan, it’s just something
that I do. You’ve got to start with one or the other.
I’ll start with tryptophan, we’ll do a trial, and I’ll
have someone read the symptoms on a scale of
1 to 10. And we’ll do a trial there and then. Either
in the office or if I’m working over the phone with
them, we’ll do it there and then and get some
immediate feedback. So the starting dose for
tryptophan is 500 milligrams. And we’ll say, “Well,
how are you feeling right now in terms of what’s
happening in your mind? How much are you
reliving this?” “It’s terrible. It’s a 9 out of 10.”  of inflammation, whether you’ve got these other
“And how you feeling in terms of, what are the
other symptoms?” “Oh, I’m feeling very irritable
right now. I just want to get out of here. That’s a
9 out of 10.” Then we’ll give them the tryptophan
The Biology of Trauma
and within three to five minutes, they should
be able to say, “Oh, I’m not thinking about that
anymore. Wow. It’s been months that this hasn’t
been in my mind.” And a lot of people will say,
quickly.” And I usually say, “If it sounds too good
to be true, it’s not true.”
[20:00]
In this case, it is. The amino acids really work
quickly. I have them open up the capsule.
Dr. Aimie: I was going to ask you just that. I’m
assuming that you’re opening the capsule.
Trudy: Yeah, you’re getting those results so
quickly. And now we know that their symptoms
went from a 9 out of 10, to maybe a 7 out of 10.
Maybe it went down to a 2 out of 10, then we
know 500 milligrams is the right dose. If it went
down just a little bit, then they might start on a
higher dose. And then over the course of the next
few weeks, we’re increasing that dose to try and
figure out the ideal amount for that person.
It’s very different for each person. Someone may
say, “My symptoms are so severe, I definitely need
a lot more,” and that’s not the case; some people
can have very severe symptoms and need a small
amount. Now, I said 500 milligrams is the starting
dose but for some people, they can do 100
milligrams and do really well. So it really depends
on each person. 
Dr. Aimie: Yeah, I mean, I would imagine that it
depends on a combination of your genetics, of
the other internal factors, whether you’ve got a lot
things going on that influence your body’s ability
to take that tryptophan and make it into the
serotonin. 
Trudy: Yes. And gut health, you mentioned
 7

gut earlier, and that’s a factor. What’s your diet was a young girl that I worked with, and it was
like? What’s your zinc levels like, your B6 levels? also in my early days of using the amino acids.
Those all play into it. So, very, very different. And And I was using them a lot at the time. But using
then some people do better on 5-HTP. So if they it with this little girl, I used tryptophan. So I’ll
don’t do well on tryptophan, we switch to 5-HTP. share what I did with her with tryptophan. But it
And the time I would not start with 5-HTP is if illustrates a good point, some people are going to
someone does have high cortisol levels, because need GABA and are going to respond really well.
there is research showing that 5-HTP can raise Some are going to need tryptophan. And some
cortisol levels. And if someone tries 5-HTP, and need both. Obviously, it’s often very common
they feel wired, more wired, that’s a clue that we that people need both. 
don’t want to be doing the 5-HTP.
Dr. Aimie: Not the effect we’re going for.  But this was early days of working. And often,
I tend to work mostly with women, they’d say
Trudy: No, definitely not.  to me, “Well, it’s working. I don’t care how it’s
working. I don’t care if it’s a placebo. I don’t care
Dr. Aimie: Now, when you open the capsule if it’s working because I’m sitting here talking with
for 5-HTP, are you seeing results as fast as the you,” because you can’t actually believe that they
tryptophan? I don’t usually, I don’t see as fast can work this quickly. But when I worked with this
results. The tryptophan seems to have a faster little girl with the reactive attachment disorder,
onset of action. Is that what you’re seeing as well?  and she responded so well to the tryptophan, that
was me convinced because she didn’t know what
Trudy: I would agree with that. Yes.  she was taking. 

Dr. Aimie: Awesome. So let’s move into the
GABA. And what are some of the tools for GABA?
And as you’re pulling up that stuff, it makes me
think of the first time that I really tried GABA.
It was actually working with a 12 year old girl
with reactive attachment disorder. And we were
doing some work, she got really triggered, high
restlessness, agitation, gave her some sublingual
GABA, and I was amazed at how well she
responded to that.  She wasn’t sleeping well. She had these anger
So that was the beginning of my introduction
to like, “I really need to be using more of these
amino acids.” Even in the moment, not just as
routine and creating a better baseline but even
having them as tools in the moment can really be
helpful.  she swung her back, turned around and had her
Trudy: That’s so interesting because I’d
mentioned that I wanted to share a story of
reactive attachment disorder, as well. And this
She was eight years old. She actually had
explosive rage and anger issues, which is one of
the symptoms obviously, of RAD and also, low
serotonin. It was so bad that her mom actually
had to physically hold her down. And they came
to see me, and they didn’t have a lot of money to
spend. So I had to really try and figure out what
are the two or three things that we can do? She
craved bread and sweet stuff. She was fatigued.
issues and anxiety. 
And when her mom came in, I was discussing
with her mom how bad her symptoms were. And
we started talking about having to give up the
candies. And she was sitting in a swivel chair, and
back to me. She wasn’t going to hear any of this.
She wasn’t giving up her bread or her candies.
And I said, “Would you be willing to try this
tryptophan?”

The Biology of Trauma

 8

serotonin, and they sound amazing. And a lot of

And with children I use a chewable tryptophan.
It’s 100 milligrams, it’s a nice low dose. And she
chewed the tryptophan, and within a few minutes,
she turned around, looked at both of us, smiled
and said, “Yeah, I’ll give up the candy.” And she
was smiling, and she was happier. And with her,
it was the tryptophan, and then the other two big
things with her was getting off gluten. And we
know that gluten will damage the gut, and that
can lead to low serotonin levels. And then low
iron. And gluten can do that as well.  they got infections? So, everything needs to come
So we got more red meat in her diet. She got on
an iron supplement, and got off the gluten. And
this was a different child. So they had done all the
therapy work upfront, but they hadn’t addressed
the biochemistry. So I’m glad you brought up that
GABA helped the little child that you worked with.
And then the serotonin support helped this little
girl. So it’s a matter of getting to the root cause.  chronic symptoms of the trauma just are that
Dr. Aimie: Exactly, yeah. And I should add that
GABA was not enough to address all of her
biochemical imbalances. We’ve done a lot of
testing since then. And she is a strong under
methylator, which can be common for some
of those extreme behaviors of the attachment
disorder. So I do have her on 5-HTP now. She’s
also on the protocols that I have for being an
under methylator and supporting that low
serotonin and low dopamine at baseline.  do well, there’s a number of factors that come
So just that will hold her back, with doing some
of the therapeutic work and the connection
work. So, supporting them when they’ve got this
low serotonin, the low dopamine, the low GABA,
sure actually helping them get better because
otherwise, you’re fighting their biology. And yeah,
they may be able to get better, but it’s just going
to be so much harder on everybody.  manageable to do that.” But it’s not the only piece.
times after I’ve done these interviews, people will
contact me and say, “Oh, my child has this, I want
to get them on GABA.” And yes, that’s great but
you’ve got to think about everything else as well.
This little girl that I worked with had to change her
diet as well. 
So we’ve got to work on the underlying dietary
factors, low blood sugar, we’ve got to work on
toxins. Are they being exposed to toxins? Have
into it. But I like to start with the amino acids
because they give that relief right away. And we
can now work on some of these other factors that
are driving the low GABA and the low serotonin.
Dr. Aimie: Things just become more manageable
when you’ve got more serotonin, when you’ve
got more GABA. The anxiety, the fatigue, the
much more manageable when you’ve supported
the neurotransmitters, and then you can also
then work on everything else. But when you see
someone who has chronic PTSD, or even some of
these more severe extreme behaviors, you have
to understand that it’s never just going to be one
thing. Right, Trudy? 
To create that extreme of behaviors, to block
the body in its natural ability to heal itself and to
together to create that storm. And so yeah, you’re
never going to be able to just throw GABA at
it, and we’ll be fine. Throw some 5-HTP. But it’s
just the stepping back and understanding, “Hey,
there’s this big imbalance here. There’s this big
problem here. Let me take this piece first with
the neurotransmitters, support that because
when I do that first, then everything else is more
 

Trudy: Exactly. And I’m glad you mentioned Trudy: Yes, really important. And the other thing
that, because we’re talking about low GABA, low it does is it gives hope. It gives the person that

The Biology of Trauma

 9
you’re working with hope because now they’re
feeling a lot better. If you’re working with a child,
the mom suddenly has hope. They’re amazing.
They are amazing. It totally transformed my
practice when I started using them. So, it’s
so wonderful to be talking to a doctor who’s
totally on board with all of this as well. It’s a real
pleasure. 
Dr. Aimie: Well, likewise, Trudy. We’ve been
working side by side on these different things for
years now. And I love the work that you’re doing.
I think it’s extremely important. So let’s talk about
GABA. Yes, let’s not forget about GABA. Like you
were saying, GABA is something where it will show
up more, even in the body, in the tissues, in the
muscles, tension, because serotonin may be more
in the brain and the gut, but GABA is throughout
the entire nervous system. So anywhere that you
have nerves, and a lot of those nerves go right to
our muscles, that’s where you’re going to see the
effects of the GABA. It’s not just usually going to
be anxiety or insomnia. It’s going to also be these
tissue things as well. So, what can people do to
support their GABA?
[30:00]
Trudy: So the neurotransmitter is called GABA,
gamma-aminobutyric acid and the amino acid
to support low GABA is also called GABA. And
it’s also used sublingually. And the difference
with GABA and the sublingual use, compared to
tryptophan, is I like to have people continue to
use GABA sublingually. I find much better results
when they’re always using it sublingually. So,
using a GABA supplement, I actually like an over
the counter product called GABA Calm, by Source
Naturals.
Dr. Aimie: Yes, I use that as well.  Trudy: I have not seen that, what you’re talking
Trudy: Low dose, 125 milligrams, a great starting
dose, sublingual, easy to have on hand, quick
The Biology of Trauma
results. And then if they find they need to take
more than that, and usually 125 milligrams,
maybe twice that, a few times a day, works. That’s
sort of a good baseline to think about. Now some
people need higher doses and then we would
switch to a maybe a 250 milligrams, maybe a 500
milligrams. 
The danger that I see with GABA is a lot of people
hear about GABA, they go into the health store,
they buy 750 milligrams GABA, they take it, and
they wonder why they feel edgy or they feel like
you can get a nice and tight flush with too much
GABA, or they feel too sleepy. We want to start
low and build up. So again, we’re looking at the
questionnaire, we’re rating the symptoms, we’re
doing a trial there and then. 
And when you do that trial of GABA, you’ll just
see the shoulders go, “Haa.” And the moms that I
work with or the women that I work with will say,
“I just feel like I had a glass of wine, it feels really
good.” But that’s what we want because we’re now
addressing those low GABA levels without having
to self-medicate with the wine. 
Dr. Aimie: Now, it is important to remember that
there’s about 5% of the population that based
on their genetics, they actually will have the
opposite reaction to GABA and it gets turned into
glutamate. So they will experience that increased
edginess, which is, again, why I tell people, “You’ve
gotta start low and go slow.” You can’t start at a
500 or 750 milligram dose because you may be
one of that 5% of the population that actually
ends up having higher levels of the excitatory
neurotransmitter, that glutamate that your body
converts that GABA into. So, starting low, it’s
important. 
about. So that’s interesting that you’re talking
about that. Yeah, so that’s interesting. Good to
hear. I like to do these interviews because I learn.
 10

When I’ve seen that reaction, it’s usually too much Trudy: Yes, and then on the counter, I’ve had
GABA. So for some people, pixie dust people, they some people say that it can be stimulating, to help
might need to open a GABA capsule and just go with ADHD. So I’ve had a lot of kids get on 5-HTP
and take that amount. And then that’s going to and it helps with their focus issues. And we know
be enough for them. So, that’s the solution that I that theanine can help with focus as well. So it’s
have for that.  interesting, some people can do theanine at night,
for others it’s too stimulating. So it’s very, very
But I also wanted to address the fact that some individualized and you’ve got to figure out what’s
people say GABA doesn’t cross the blood brain going to work for you. 
barrier, so it can’t work. And you alluded to
some of that when you talked about the fact Now, if you are on a benzodiazepine there is no
that we’ve got these GABA receptors throughout concern with taking the GABA and the theanine
the body. And we’ve also got GABA receptors in at the same time. Earlier on, you’d mentioned
the pancreas, in our endocrine system as well, the medications and using the amino acids at the
throughout our endocrine system. So GABA is same time. One precaution that I do have with the
affecting us at many different levels.  low serotonin, which I forgot to mention, is that
if you are on an SSRI, you do need to be working
And we don’t know how it’s making us calm. Is it with your doctor. If you are using tryptophan
maybe the fact that it’s relaxing the muscles and or 5-HTP. And my guideline is only one SSRI at
then that gives a message to the brain? Is it going the time. If someone’s on multiple, that’s not
from the gut to the brain? Is it going via the vagus going to be okay to add in the tryptophan or the
nerve? There’s a lot of research talking about this 5-HTP. And then using it six hours apart from the
blood brain barrier, potential issue that some SSRI. 
people say, “GABA can’t possibly work because the
molecules are too big to get through the blood Dr. Aimie: And you’re specifically talking about
brain barrier.” But we certainly see it.  the serotonin syndrome.

And a lot of practitioners will say they don’t use
GABA because they don’t think it works. But
definitely, using it sublingually makes a very big
difference. We’ve got more research on theanine,
which seems to work on GABA. It also works
a little bit on dopamine. It works a little bit on
serotonin as well. And I like the combination of
GABA and theanine for some people and some
people do well, it’s just one or the other. So it’s a
matter of figuring out what is going to work for
you.  hours away from the SSRI.  So, usually getting
Dr. Aimie: I like the combination of 5-HTP or
tryptophan and theanine. Especially for bedtime
and insomnia, it seems to help really stop those
racing thoughts. 
Trudy: The serotonin syndrome. It’s a
precaution. There’s no research showing that
using tryptophan or 5-HTP with an SSRI can
cause serotonin syndrome, there is nothing in
the research. And there’s actually some studies
showing using them together has actually
enhanced the effectiveness of SSRIs. So they’ve
used these amino acids together. But there is that
potential, so I like to have the doctor on board,
and then using the tryptophan or the 5-HTP, six
usually getting permission to switch the SSRI to
the morning, and then using the tryptophan or
the 5-HTP in the evening, because that’s when
serotonin takes a dip. 
Dr. Aimie: On the medical side of things, since

The Biology of Trauma


I’m the physician making those decisions, a
lot of people will come to me, and I’m the one
encouraging them to use these amino acids
in order to help us taper. And they bring up
the serotonin syndrome. Trudy, I still have not
personally seen a case. I know it’s possible and
so we still take those precautions. But I am one
of those who will say, “Well, let’s start with having
them apart.”
“And if that seems perfectly safe, you’re not
having any symptoms, then we can even try a low
dose at the same time or spread out through the
day and see how that goes.” And as long as we’re
starting at a low dose, and building up from there,
I feel pretty comfortable. Even sometimes giving
it at the same time. And I do see that synergistic
effect because they’re acting on different
mechanisms, for improving that serotonin activity.  orotate sometimes helps. What did you use while
Trudy: That’s really, really encouraging to hear.
And I would love all of my clients to be working
with someone like you because you understand
the medical side, the medication aspect, and
the neurotransmitter and the amino acids.
Unfortunately, a lot of doctors don’t. Some of
them will flat out say, “No, no, you can’t do this.”
Or they’ll say, “Well, you can do what you want, it’s
not going to make a difference,” or, “Yes, follow
the recommendations of the nutritionist and I’ll
monitor you.” So you get very different feedback.
So I wanted to just share that because people
listening will think all doctors are like you and are
totally on board with all of this. And that’s not the
case. And I’m sure you’ve seen that as well.  So that was part of the testing that I did at that
Dr. Aimie: That is. And I mean, this is my personal
experience, right? So this is how I even started
in this field, was having to taper myself off of
both Zoloft and Wellbutrin. So that was a several
month process of me learning how to use these
amino acids in a way that was right for my body.
But then being able to take that and then learn all
this other stuff for everybody else’s body, since we
The Biology of Trauma
11
all are very unique. 
Trudy: Yes and being your own guinea pig is often
very helpful. I fortunately have not had to do that.
I’ve certainly used the amino acids myself, so I’ve
come from that angle. I had my own anxiety and
panic attacks, and GABA was amazing for me,
tryptophan was amazing for me, and addressing
the gut and gluten and everything else. You
mentioned this perfect storm earlier, I had this
perfect storm of all of these factors. So it’s really
refreshing to hear this coming from you and you
sharing this. 
Can I ask a question about your tapering? What
other nutrients did you use that helped? I find
melatonin often helps. Niacinamide often helps.
And then of course, addressing low GABA, lithium
you were tapering that helped, in addition to the
amino acids?
Dr. Aimie: So I did take the approach that I
needed, to support all of those factors that are
also involved in making more serotonin and more
dopamine. And so I was taking B6, I was taking
zinc, I was taking other mitochondrial support in
general. I also did have a lot of gut inflammation
at the time though, so I knew that that was playing
a role in my depleted serotonin. So I really had to
address the food sensitivities. 
[40:00]
time. I found food sensitivities, Trudy, that I
had no idea that I was sensitive to those things.
They weren’t things that I was having any kind
of an immediate reaction to. It was like roasted
pumpkin seeds, roasted cashews, things that I
was eating on a regular basis because I thought
that those were healthy, and yet contributing,
obviously to a lot of immune imbalances and
inflammation in my gut. So there was that whole
 12
approach.
In terms of more of the amino acids, the 5-HTP,
the theanine, I did some of the tryptophan at first,
and then I found that the 5-HTP seem to be a
better fit for me. So I actually still use that. That is
still part of my nightly display of supplements that
I’m taking. Magnesium was really important. So
magnesium was really important to add in all of
that. And I think that it was partly just because of
the stress that my body had been under that had
contributed probably to the low serotonin and
low dopamine.  you to kind of wrap up for us, and then you just
Since then, I have found that I have pyroluria.
So that is also part of low serotonin activities. So
I’ve needed to bring in more zinc for that, more
of the antioxidants. So now it’s become this very
still, strategic, and very targeted, interventional
approach to understanding, what are all the
different factors that for my body, create this
tendency to go towards low serotonin and low
dopamine, if I am not mindful of supporting that
system?  And what finally actually triggered me to go into
Trudy: Well, thank you for sharing. And I think it’s
going to be very enlightening for folks to hear that
we experience a lot of this too. I have pyroluria
myself, we were talking about that just before we
started. So we can relate to the different issues
that folks have. But our picture might be very
different, what caused it. For me, heavy metals
was a big factor, I had a mouthful of amalgams; I’d
worked in a factory that had a lot of lead. So that
was a very, very big factor for me.  iron, and my levels are not budging?”
But I also had gut issues, I had gluten issues, I
had issues with soy. So we’ve got to just put those
puzzle pieces together and figure out what it is.
But the wonderful thing is, we can use some of
these nutrients to give us some relief right away,
while we’re dealing with all of that, because it
takes a while to unwind all of it. And I’m sure
you are in the same situation as me, I’m still
The Biology of Trauma
unwinding stuff. 
I discovered that I had this latent Lyme infection
that reared its ugly head a few years ago. So that
was part of the picture that I didn’t know about
earlier on. So we’ve got to just put all the puzzle
pieces together and address the issues when
they come up. And it’s exciting to think that we
can get symptom resolution with this biochemical
nutrient approach. 
Dr. Aimie: Exactly. And I was actually going to ask
did. This is the big picture of the biochemistry
and there are so many pieces, and we start
somewhere. But understanding that there are
many different factors that can go into these
different levels of our neurotransmitters. I was
not always aware of this stuff, right? And I was
having severe anxiety, severe depression, along
with some other symptoms that I was in therapy
for. 
this biochemistry side of things was that I ran
labs with my physician, with my regular physician,
because of the chronic fatigue symptoms that I
was having. And we discovered that I had low iron
and really low vitamin D, neither one of which
were getting better with supplementation, and I
mean, aggressive supplementation. And Trudy,
for some reason that just like made a light bulb
go off in my brain of, “Wait a second, why? Why is
that? Why am I throwing all this vitamin D, all this
And it was the first time that I really started to
think of, “There must be something else going on.
And let me figure that out because otherwise, I’m
just going to be continuing to put a Band-Aid on
things, rather than actually addressing the root
of the problem.” And it just started from there.
And it’s led to this, Trudy, it’s led to this. Working
with trauma and realizing that our biochemistry
 13

can predispose us to trauma, if we’re going into
an experience with these low neurotransmitter
levels, with the toxins with the illnesses, whatever
it is.  just touched on today. I’ve got online group
That makes our nervous system much more
vulnerable to experiencing stress in a traumatic
way. And if we’ve had a trauma, we need to
understand that these are the very common
consequences of that and that there are things
that we can do to address that. So where can
people find you, Trudy? You have been an
amazing resource for anxiety for so many people.
I want people to know exactly where they can find
you.  So exciting to connect with you again, and to have
Trudy: I’d love to share that but I just wanted
to touch on what you just said there. The low
neurotransmitters, the low nutritional status,
the biochemistry that’s off, predisposes us to
being affected more by trauma, which I think
is absolutely and perfectly said. But also, once
we’ve had that trauma, having these tools help us
recover more from the trauma. So I wanted to just
make that point and then you said it perfectly. So I
just wanted to reiterate that.  deserve to feel their absolute best every single
So for me, my book, obviously, The Anti-Anxiety
Food Solution, is a great resource to get all of
the foundational stuff in place, the gluten, the
gut, getting off the caffeine, we didn’t even talk
about that. And then I’ve got chapters on the
amino acids, and then also pyroluria, which we
programs for folks who find that reading a
book and implementing these approaches isn’t
enough. And then my anxiety summits, and
we touch on various different topics related to
these root causes that can trigger anxiety. And
then the Anxiety Nutrition Institute, where I train
practitioners on how to use these approaches
with their clients and patients. 
Dr. Aimie: Awesome. Trudy, thank you so much.
you share your experience and wisdom with us.
I really appreciate what you do in the world and
how you show up, and are changing the lives of
many people through your natural approaches to
anxiety. 
Trudy: Well, thank you and thanks for having me.
I’m excited to hear the other interviews and to
share this amazing summit with my community. I
know it’s going to change a lot of lives. People just
day and if I can offer this information and share
this information with my community, it’s just
wonderful. So thanks again for having me.

The Biology of Trauma

 14

The Trauma/Autoimmune
Biology and Personality
Keesha Ewers, PhD, ARNP

Dr. Aimie: Welcome to the Biology of Trauma
Summit. I’m your host, Dr. Aimie, and today I have
with me a good friend and colleague, Dr. Keesha
Ewers. And she specifically helps women reverse
their autoimmune disease, heal their childhood
trauma, and make friends with the woman they
see in the mirror. And this is why I’m so excited
to have her on with us, because it seems like her
life and my life are… even down to the different
symptoms and conditions we both share, we have
so many similarities. And so I love that she brings
her expertise to this field. Actually, if I’m not
mistaken, she started out as a nurse practitioner
in a trauma ICU, and started just noticing different
things.  have a loved one that’s in crisis. I was the one that
Dr. Ewers: As a registered nurse. Yeah, I started
as an associate degree registered nurse at the age
of 19.  And that led me into some hospice work that I
Dr. Aimie: That would be Keesha. And from there,
she started noticing things, and out of that came
the HURT study, the Healing Unresolved Trauma
that you did in 2013, that we’ll be talking a lot
about today, as well. But you’ve also been now a
bestselling author, done a TEDx talk, speaker on a
number of different summits or events, and have
really become an established expert in this field
of even connecting autoimmune and trauma. And
along with a big, wide range of other trainings
that you’ve accumulated over the years to help
yourself really understand this connection that
happens in the body. And so, thank you for your
time this morning. I really appreciate it. 
Dr. Ewers: I’m so delighted to be here. Thank you
so much for having me. 
Dr. Aimie: So if you don’t mind, share a little bit
more of your story. Because how do you go from
being a registered nurse in an ICU to now this
expert working with autoimmune and trauma,
and healing the unresolved traumas in our life?
Dr. Ewers: I think in my time period, from the age
of 19 until I was 30, when I was a registered nurse
in intensive care units, I started realizing, there’s a
lot of trauma and that with family members. They
would volunteer to take patients off the ventilator
when they had to go. 
just loved. And it’s really seeing people in their
authentic times, when those parts of us that are in
there that come out in crisis, that can sometimes
come out sideways. And I started noticing how to
work with people when they were in that space.
And then I got sick. So, right around age 30, 32,
I wound up getting diagnosed with rheumatoid
arthritis, because I woke up one day and as my
patients say, “All of a sudden, I was sick,” which
wasn’t accurate. I had been developing it over a
20 year period but I didn’t know that. And all of a
sudden, I have overnight, this 10 extra pounds of
puffiness all over my joints and my body. 

The Biology of Trauma


And it’s abject misery, and it was like someone
had taken the batteries out of the Energizer
Bunny, which is what my friends called me. I was
a marathon runner, skydiver, I was raising four
children. I just really was in this life, in this very
driven perfectionistic, people pleasing way, which
I have now come to find out is part of my disease
process.
Dr. Aimie: Part of it. But it’s just interesting,
because that’s the exact age that I really had my
health crash too. And there’s something to that,
right? Like it starts in early childhood and there’s
this period of latency, there things are happening
under the surface, for both of us. And in our early
30s, we had our health crash and autoimmune
issues.  recognized it.
Dr. Ewers: Right. So my diagnosis of RA, when I
went in to see a physician that morning, she asked
me if I had a family history of autoimmunity.
I said, “Yeah, I think my grandfather had
rheumatoid arthritis. He was in a wheelchair for
a number of years.” And I was thinking about
this when I was telling this story some months
ago. So, I’m 56, I turned 56 in February, and I
realized when I turned 56, like, “That’s when that
grandfather died.” He was 56.  about it that I went home and asked Jeeves about
And I think about my life and how vital and like,
how much healthier I am now than I was when
I was 30. And how much happier and more at
peace. And I just think, “Wow, this is so interesting
because they didn’t know any of this back
then.” They didn’t realize that these strategies
that we adapt, bring in as adaptive strategies
for childhood meanings that we create for our
experiences, actually can be changed and shifted.
And we don’t have to be the way that we are when
we are diagnosed with an illness that’s trying to
get our attention. So I was able to reverse my
rheumatoid arthritis within six months because
The Biology of Trauma
15
after she gave me two prescriptions, one for
methotrexate and one for a non-steroidal, anti-
inflammatory drug, I went home thinking, “Okay,
she gave those to me and said, when you get
worse, come back. Not if. 
Dr. Aimie: That’s exactly what I was told too,
Keesha.
Dr. Ewers: Yeah, “When you get worse, we’ll
change your meds.” And I thought, “There must
be something else.” And so I sat down at my
computer, which in those days was a dial up
modem, and I asked Jeeves, “Is there anything
else?” And I was completely in the western
medical paradigm. Like I always say, if an herb
had bitten me in the bottom, I wouldn’t have
 
Dr. Aimie: There’s no room for that in an ICU. 
Dr. Ewers: No, there’s not and no call for it. And
necessity is the mother of invention. So, what I did
was I said, “Okay, what else is there?” I went into
PubMed and I found some interesting data on
yoga and autoimmune disease; went to my first
yoga class the next day. And that yoga teacher
actually said this word, Ayurveda, and said enough
Ayurveda. 
And what I discovered was that, oh, 10,000
years ago, this medical science, that’s the sister
science of yoga, actually said we’re all different
A, which was revolutionary to me. And also the
autoimmune disease is undigested anger. And I
remember thinking, like, “Oh, but I’m not an angry
person.”
Dr. Aimie: Exactly, “I’m not an angry person.”
Dr. Ewers: That’s right. And then thinking the
next thoughts right after that, and maybe that
there’s something there to that. And that maybe

the fact that I can’t recognize or have permission
for feeling anger, that maybe my body is storing
something. And I was learning how to meditate
and do some different things in response to the
data that I was gathering about autoimmunity.
And so I took this word autoimmune into my
meditation.  degree in Ayurvedic medicine. And then several
And I thought, “Oh, auto means I’m doing this to
myself. I’m destroying myself. When is the first
time I wanted to die?” And that was interesting,
because I didn’t want to die at the time I was
sitting there meditating. And so I traced it back
backwards and found this little 10 year old girl
version of myself that was being sexually abused
by the vice principal of the elementary school I
was attending. And I looked at her, and I thought
she wanted to die. Like, that part of me definitely
wanted off this planet. And I thought, “I know
these are connected. This has to be connected.
And my cells are just saying, okay.”
And it turns out that science does say that these
past childhood traumas are connected to our
adult health in some very, very compelling ways.
And I knew that back then, before the ACEs study
was done, just by looking at her face and going,
“Oh.” So, by really diving in and working on that
trauma, and doing some work around my diet,
and all those things that I do with my patients
today, all of it had to get done.  [10:00]
If I would have ignored the trauma, there’s no
way this would have happened. But my RA was
gone in six months, and it hasn’t been back, and
without taking the meds. And so this is what’s
so interesting about this, is that these early
moments, and we can differentiate between
capital T trauma and lowercase t trauma, but I
went back to school after my RA was gone, in
remission; reversed, not cured. I could get it back
again, it’s in my genetics.
Dr. Aimie: The pattern is still there and can be
The Biology of Trauma
16
woken up again. 
Dr. Ewers: That’s when I went back to school
and finished my bachelor’s in nursing. And then
I got my nurse practitioner, and then I got board
certified in functional medicine, and a master’s
years later, as I was contemplating this, why did
the ACEs study come up with what it did? Like,
how is that process? Then I did the HURT study
for my doctoral work in 2013. And so it’s just been
this like, ongoing pursuit of every time a question
comes up, I’ll want an answer to it. And I’ll either
go back to school, or get another certification or
do my own study. So, that’s the long and short of
it. 
Dr. Aimie: And thank you for that. And it’s
interesting, because when you describe looking
back and finding that 10 year old self that had
wanted to die, that’s exactly the same age that
I look back and see that in myself. And it wasn’t
something that I had consciously remembered.
But I have a Mexican mom, she has been in my
life since about age eight or nine. And she told me
about a year ago, “Do you remember that when
you were 10, we had that conversation and you
told me you wanted to die?” And I can remember
that conversation.
But it makes so much sense, seeing the time
points at which certain physical symptoms started
to hit me after again, also very much like you,
running marathons. And I was an avid cyclist and
biker, and was always very active, was in general
surgery residency at the time. So just always very
active, very on the go, very perfectionistic. And
yet looking back, I would say that I don’t have
that story, like you that I can point back to and
say, “Well, that was the reason that that little girl
wanted to die already.”
 17

And so, for me, there’s been a lot of reframing

around traumas, and what would be considered
a big T Trauma, a little t trauma. And how even
if you don’t really relate to having trauma, it’s
not really about events and stories. It’s about, do
you have these patterns in your nervous system;
that these types of experiences and patterns get
stored in your nervous system that it’s causing
these biological consequences later on in life? It’s
less important to remember an event or associate
something with trauma. 
Dr. Ewers: It’s not even necessary at all. And
people get worried about that, “Do I have
[inaudible] live?” Or, “I don’t ever remember my
childhood. Is that a problem?” And I say, “Oh, no,
absolutely not.” And when you can’t remember
your childhood, there’s a reason for that.
Dr. Aimie: There is a reason for that too.  needed. But let’s go deeper into your HURT study.
Dr. Ewers: But it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t mean
that you have to go dig in and go under hypnosis,
and figure it out. Like, none of that is necessary in
order to do the work that I did that reversed my
RA and then what I teach now. So, our stories are
constructs and the more we tell them, the more
real they become. But at the end of the day, it’s
not the story that is as important because in the
story, obviously, in the story is where your trauma
lies.  Dr. Ewers: So I was actually studying women
So if you look around you as an adult and you
don’t feel safe, you don’t feel good enough, you
don’t feel like you can trust the world, you don’t
feel all of these things, or you feel like you have
to care take everybody and not yourself, that
right there is your story. And that comes from
this meaning and in my HURT model, I can kind
of track how that all happens. But it’s like, “Oh,
now that I have a fully developed brain, I can go
back and I can take a look at these meanings that
I created.” And adaptive behaviors for a child that
may not be so adaptive for my adult version.  you like your partner that you’re having sex with?”
Dr. Aimie: Absolutely. And that’s where the hope
is; that we’re not stuck with whatever it is with our
health conditions. But specifically, autoimmune
is definitely associated with unresolved anger,
unexpressed anger that we turn towards
ourselves. And so it’s often the people that are
the people pleasers that are the really nice ones
that actually have this anger that they just turned
towards themselves, rather than expressing it.
Dr. Ewers: And the driven ones.
Dr. Aimie: And the driven ones, yes. And there’s
even some cancers that are also associated with
that unresolved anger. So one of the things that I
love that we both kind of landed on is functional
medicine. And that’s definitely kind of what
helped me shift out of that and learn what tools I
And then we can pull in some of the functional
medicine stuff, and actually look at maybe some
of the biological things that we can do to support
our body during even a diagnosis or to pull
ourselves out of an autoimmune. What are some
of the more biological things that we can do for
resolving trauma? But I’d love to have you share
more of your HURT study and the results that you
found with that. 
who were coming to see me and again, another
question that was unanswered in the medical
literature, where they were coming in for
bioidentical hormone replacement. And they
would say, “You’ve prescribed this for my sister,”
“my mother, my daughter, my friend,” “and they’re
fabulous now. And I want to be fabulous. And so
can you give me hormones?” And so I would ask
questions along with the intake.
Like, “Well, so why do you think you need
hormones?” And, “Oh, my libido is gone.” “And do

The Biology of Trauma


and they’d oftentimes burst into tears. I would
see people cry, about that question. Or, “I used to
have a libido and now I don’t. And my partner had
an affair five years ago. And I’ve forgiven him but I
don’t really want to have sex with him.”  things occur that you can’t understand what just
Or I live in the land of Seattle where a lot of
engineers are, for Boeing and Microsoft and
Starbucks, and Amazon. And so there are a lot
of like, very analytical male brains, not to be
very gender biased here, and a lot of emotional
connector type females that are feeling
unconnected to. And so I started seeing these
patterns and going, “Hormones aren’t going to
help that.”
Dr. Aimie: It’s just a Band-Aid, this actually isn’t
the real issue here.
Dr. Ewers: It is not even a Band-Aid because it’s
like, “The story here is not about your physicality.”
So, I did a TED talk about this, ‘Have you heard
from your libido lately?’ and talked about it. And
I went back to school, and as I went into the
medical research, I couldn’t find anything that was
talking about this. And so what I did ultimately,
was mapped what happens with the trauma cycle.  anger, fear, panic, terror, any of those, and
So in the beginning, we’re little children, and we
don’t have a fully developed brain yet, we don’t
have that adult prefrontal cortex that’s fully
developed that does our executive function and
makes good choices for ourselves. There’s a lot
of this reptilian, amygdala, survival part because
we’re little beings trying to figure out how to be
big beings.
Dr. Aimie: Trying to survive.  thing that’s important that my model illustrates is
Dr. Ewers: Yeah. And the big beings are running
the show, and they’re the ones telling us if we’re
good or bad. And so we’re trying to figure out
how to be adults through this process. And so,
the little t traumas are the ones that are the most
The Biology of Trauma
18
prevalent, and they are equally as important as
the capital T traumas. So, what happens is you go
to school, you go to a friend’s house, you go on a
ball team, whatever it is, you’re at home, different
happened. And that’s it right there. 
Like, it doesn’t have to be a giant thing. Like,
maybe you asked to have the potatoes passed to
you and your dad ignored you and passed them
to your brother instead. In that moment, if you
trigger to it in that moment, and you go, “Well,
why did that just happen? Am I not important?” in
that moment, you’re going to have an emotion.
And it can be, you failed your first test, you didn’t
make it to the top of the rope in the presidential
challenge in PE, it can be like you didn’t get picked
for a ball team, you messed up a word in the
spelling bee. 
It can be the tiniest things, you get hand me down
clothes, and your older sister gets all of them
or older brother, all the new stuff and you get
the hand me downs. It can be anything that you
trigger to. And that triggering process is going to
be an emotion that is felt. And it will be sadness,
then that’s going to trigger that nervous system
response in what we call the autonomic nervous
system, your sympathetic response. 
Now for children, this is most of the time, freeze,
because we’re not powerful people, we can’t
fight and we can’t flee. So we freeze. And so in
that moment, that emotion gets frozen in a part
of your body, and you start a nervous system
pattern happening at every activity. Now, the next
right in that moment, with your undeveloped child
brain, you make up a meaning. A meaning that
explains to you what just happened and it makes
sense to you and your child brain. 
And then that becomes a belief system that you
 19
carry forward for the rest of your life, and you
attach an adaptive behavior to that belief. And
then that adaptive behavior becomes oftentimes
a maladaptive behavior when you’re in adulthood.
And so for me, you can track mine very easily.
So here I am, I’m 10, the intercom goes off in the
corner of the classroom, to call me to the office,
and I wound up having this trauma happen at the
hands of the vice principal. Well, then every time
the intercom goes off, for every morning’s Pledge
of Allegiance and secretarial announcements, I go
into freeze and terror.  can’t be trusted, if you get pulled over by a cop,
And the belief that I have, the meaning I’ve
created, is I’m not safe. And so people in authority
can’t be trusted to do what they say they’re going
to do. And so now throughout, my adaptive
behavior response to that was, “Oh, I need to
be perfect. I need to be perfect to even survive.
Not to be respected, not to get love, not to feel
worthwhile, but just to survive.” Because he was
telling me this was my fault, because I was white
trash, and I was bad. And so a child is going to
believe those things. So then there’s my people
pleasing and my perfectionism.  maladaptive, now I have a leaky gut. And I have
So, in adulthood, you’re not going to be even
aware that you’re running this pattern. It’s just
going to be the way you run your life. Until
some moment comes along and this is where
the disease process is so important, where you
have a call to action and the Joseph Campbell
Hero’s Journey and it says, like, “Oh, something
is happening, and I don’t know what to do. And I
don’t have the skills for it.”
[20:10]
And so that was RA for me. And so in that
moment in the HURT model, I say there’s a
bifurcation of two pathways. You can keep doing
what you’ve always done and that leads to illness
and low libido, by the way. And then over here,
I have an opportunity, if I have the willingness
and willingness is the most important word, to
The Biology of Trauma
self-confront. And if I have the willingness to self-
confront, and go, “Oh, every time I’m upset in
this world, I’m present. Maybe there’s something
happening with the way that my pattern of
personality is on this planet and my interactions
with others that maybe I could view and look at.”
And so in that moment, then you get called to
do this kind of work that I’m talking about. And
at the same time, your nervous system reactivity
pathways that go off, like, in my case, if adults
or if you go through TSA in the airport. I mean,
like there’s a zillion of them crossing the border
to Canada. And so the willingness to self-confront
says, “Oh, you know what, sweetie, this isn’t that.
You’re not 10 anymore and I’ve got this. You don’t
need to be the one interacting with this.”
So you’re really learning how to differentiate the
parts of you that are coming forward. And so with
that at the same time, over all the 20 year period,
from 10 years old, when I created those meanings
and beliefs, and adaptive behaviors that are now
genetics that are expressing themselves as RA
because that’s in my family line. 
And I’ve got a toxic burden of living on this planet,
also, being a photographer and sticking my hands
in the chemicals. Like, a whole bunch of things, a
host of things. I’m a sugar addict. My genetics say
gluten is rat poison for me, and I can’t have it at
all. And I didn’t know that. So I’d come home from
my long runs and have granola over my yogurt,
which I’m also lactose... I can’t do that. So all these
things.
Dr. Aimie: You think that’s a healthy breakfast. 
Dr. Ewers: All these things like bloating to the
point that I have to unzip my jeans by noon. And
the continual drive towards running longer and
longer miles to manage the five brownies I ate the
 20

night before. That all has to come to a head. So
that’s the beauty of all of this. Nothing’s wrong.
Nothing’s bad. It’s just like, “Oh, it’s time to have
awareness around this and move to the next level
of development.”
Dr. Aimie: Absolutely. It’s a message, right? Like,
it’s your body’s way of communicating. And it’s
what we do with that message. We can lean into
it and get curious. Like what you did, like, “Okay, it
seems like yoga is helpful for autoimmune. I guess
I’m gonna go to my first yoga class tomorrow.”
And then you heard about Ayurvedic medicine
and it’s like, “Okay, let me lean into that.” We get
to lean into it.  Like, I’m in a Master’s of Divinity program in
Rather than kind of fight what has been a pattern
for most of our life before that, of just kind of
avoiding. Avoiding messages. As long as we could
push through, as long as we could try to manage
the weight with longer runs. We’re going to do
that until our body finally says, “Alright, then I
guess we’ll do this in order to get your attention.”
Dr. Ewers: I mean, really, what it says is, “I’ve been
robbing Peter to pay Paul for you for 20 years,
and I’m out. I’ve got nothing left.” And so there we
go. It’s like, crash and burn.  Dr. Aimie: Yes, it happens so suddenly that you
Dr. Aimie: But even at that point, like, obviously
with your story and my story, there’s so much
that we can do to manage that and to have
healthier patterns come out. And I was talking
with Dr. Diane Poole Heller, about the different
attachment styles, and she was talking about how
it is possible, even as an adult, to shift to a more
secure attachment style.  you’re going to continue to do it going forward.
Whereas, the more insecure, when you were
a little child, it was probably maybe just in
consistencies where you didn’t know if you
were going to be... pass the potatoes, or maybe
you were. You didn’t know, it was just that
inconsistency that creates that insecurity in our
nervous system. And that plays out over time, and
that changes our biology. 
Dr. Ewers: And it’s not even... like the way that
I think about it is even a level up from that. I
know a lot of people are focused on the nervous
system and the vagus nerve and all of that, and
that’s great. I mean, you can get yourself out of
a tsunami of emotional overwhelm through or
focusing on that. But at the end of the day, what’s
really important and this is what I think gets
ignored, is that all of this is activated by our own
perceptions, our own thoughts. 
a Buddhist college because I started looking
around and going, “You know who has the most
technology right now, is the most advanced on
really understanding the mind? The Tibetan
Buddhists.” Like they’ve got this mapped to such
detail. In fact, I had no idea. It’s amazing. And
one of the things that they talk about is in one
perception, as you’re witnessing something, as a
thought comes up, in one perception, there are 17
different steps. One perception, in a flash, there
are 17 steps.
feel like it’s all the same thing. 
Dr. Ewers: And what they say is, in those 17 steps,
there’s this midway halfway, and they call it the
gateway to karma. And what they talk about is, in
that moment, you have this opportunity. And the
reason they call it doorway to karma is because
they’re saying how you’ve done it all along is how
Unless you take that opportunity to open up that
little, tiny, tiny gap and do it a little differently.
And then you’ve created different karma for
yourself, like, you’re going to do it differently
from now on. And that’s, to me, remarkable, like
perception is everything. It is not about your

The Biology of Trauma


nervous system. It is not about your nervous
system. It’s about the perception that triggers
your nervous system. And so getting above that
is the most important thing, right? And so that’s
what’s so fascinating to me. We tend to be very
reductionist in our culture, and we want to distill
everything down and go, “Okay, here’s the one
thing I can do. And here’s the one reason I’m sick.
And here’s the one reason...”
And it’s not that ever, ever. It’s always critical
math. People want to make it about their Epstein
Barr virus. And yes, that is part of it. I use The
Freedom Framework where I look at the four
corners of your puzzle, and we’re all unique in our
puzzles. So we have our genetics, we have our gut
health, we have our toxic load, and we have our
stress and trauma. And all of them interact with
each other. So of course, Epstein Barr is a player
and it’s one of the toxic burdens. But it’s never
the only thing, otherwise 95% of Americans would
have autoimmunity because 95% of Americans
have Epstein Barr virus.  free state where they’re just wandering around.
So it’s like that math doesn’t work. So, we have
to go to our own perceptions and start to look
at them. And, “How often am I perceiving myself
as offended or I need to defend my worldview in
some way? Or myself?” Like, “How often am I in
this right or wrong, black and white thinking? How
often do I find myself in the should, coulds?” All of
those, and they’re not bad, none of it’s bad. “How
often do I lock myself into what I call the tyranny
of positive thinking?” where I’m not even allowed
to feel anxious, because I’ve judged it as a bad
emotion. 
Like that, too, it’s like, “Oh, this is so fascinating.”
It’s so fascinating because each one of us is
unique in this, there’s not like, one way that all of
this unravels. There’s just your own unique story,
and how you’re telling it, and then what needs
to happen for you to start approaching it from a
different awareness.  this work before, but they recognize that, “I’ve
The Biology of Trauma
21
Dr. Aimie: And understanding, like, there’s so
much that goes on in the body and the biology
that’s connected with all of that. So you really can’t
separate your belief system from your biology
because it becomes one and the same. 
Dr. Ewers: Yeah, the perceptions activate the
neurotransmitters that then tell the adrenals
to go off because they say, “Now you’re a zebra
being chased by a lion.” And that cortisol that’s
released is what’s breaking down your gut, and
then that gut brain broken down and the food
molecules making their way, so that the immune
system is attacking them; that hyper vigilant
immune system is now having your genetics
express themselves in a diseased state. Like, it’s
all interwoven.
Dr. Aimie: Yeah, yeah. And then it’s no wonder
that the biology gets overwhelmed and you have
adults who are living in this chronic, functional
Dr. Ewers: “I can only eat five things. I’m on a
shrinking iceberg of things that I can do in my
life. I’m in perpetual pain.” That always breaks my
heart. I say, “Yes. Okay. Well, let’s get you off the
ice float and let’s get you on solid ground, and we
can do that. And we can reverse all of this.” But it
is not all about L- glutamine. That is a piece of it. 
[30:00]
Dr. Aimie: A piece of it, sure. 
Dr. Ewers: Yeah, and it isn’t about shrinking your
menu. That is a piece of it for a period of time, but
not forever. So it is important that all of it is dealt
with at the same time. 
Dr. Aimie: So to wrap up, if you have someone
who’s coming in to you, and they haven’t started

got some of these conditions, I maybe even
have some autoimmune conditions, and I can
accept the fact that this is related to past hurts,
unresolved stuff. I don’t know where to start,
though,” where do you start them? Do you start
them with labs? Do you start, like the therapeutic
side and the biology side at the same time? What’s
your process?
Dr. Ewers: When people apply to work with me,
when they fill out their application process on my
website, my team reaches out to them. And the
first thing they have them do is read Solving the
Autoimmune Puzzle because it has a series of
worksheets in there. And it helps understand The
Freedom Framework and what’s going on. And we
pre-educate them. Like, that’s how we start. And
the reason for that is, is because I want you to
start.  Dr. Aimie: And have that awareness lead into
Really, like I invite you to do this, to really spend
24 hours just watching your internal language.
Watching what your perceptions are. How often
are you perceiving yourself as whatever it is?
Whatever it is. Not getting what you need. And in
that space, realize that that’s part of what’s going
on for you. That’s part and parcel of this. And so,
labs are important, and we do a whole battery
of them, depending on what’s going on. We do it
differently for each person.  towards our body, being able to see that as a
I do genetic testing on 100% of my patients. And
there are reasons for that; that I’m looking at
pathways that could be genetically problematic.
And then what can we do to do detours around
them? So I’m doing that. But then I’m also wanting
to know, in that toxic burden corner piece of
your puzzle, what are the toxic...? Like, I always
say, resentment is the most toxic chemical on
this planet. And it’s not being manufactured by
corporations and dumped into our air, soil, and
water. It’s being manufactured internally, and
we’re bathing ourselves in it.  different. And for one person, it will be this more
The Biology of Trauma
22
Our mitochondria are trying to get nutrition and
they have this resentment toxin, that’s one of the
toxic burdens. So I’m wanting people to start to
identify that for themselves and go, “Oh, this is
why I’ve spent thousands of dollars in functional
medicine and I’m not better.” I really want for
that to land, like, “Ohhh, okay.” “And the anger I
feel about my body not being helped by all these
doctors, and the anger I feel about being betrayed
by my body,” which you’re not. I want them to
start to rest into, “Oh, that anger. That’s actually
causing a problem too.” So that’s where I have
people really start, is starting to develop what
we call this awake awareness. So that they can
witness their own minds and how they operate,
and not judge them. But be able to attain some
self-mastery. 
curiosity, and as a guide, rather than what it’s
always been, which is judging that is bad. Like,
“This is bad. This is good.”
Dr. Ewers: Yeah, judging their disease process
is bad. Like, it’s not bad either. It’s just data from
the body. And so, it’s your body trying to get your
attention, “Hey, I can help here. I need some
attention.”
Dr. Aimie: And rather than responding with hate
message and finding ways to support it.
Dr. Ewers: And that’s how autoimmune disease is,
right? 
Dr. Aimie: Exactly, yes.
Dr. Ewers: It’s you at war with you and there’s no
winner in that. 
Dr. Aimie: And I love that your approach is very
individualized to each person because we are all
than that. Even though they can all play a role.
 23

It’s finding, what are the biggest compromises to Dr. Ewers: Thank you. 
their health at this moment that are keeping them
stuck?  Dr. Aimie: Where can people find you, Dr.
Keesha?
Dr. Ewers: There’s no such thing as an
autoimmune paleo diet that’s right for everybody. Dr. Ewers: Drkeesha.com. And the book, Solving
We’ve got to ask questions of your body. I call it the Autoimmune Puzzle or The Quick and Easy
the matador with the red cape and your immune Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook, which is its
system is the angry bull. And let’s find out, like companion. 
what is that red cape made out of? And then not
the same for everyone. We want to turn that Dr. Aimie: Alright, thank you so much.
bull into Ferdinand the bull, that’s really hopping
around in the daisies.  Dr. Ewers: Bye, everybody.

Dr. Aimie: Exactly. Awesome. Well, thank you

so much. I really appreciate your expertise and
how you show up in the world, and what you’ve
contributed to the field. Like all the work that
you’ve done has been transformational for so
many people and I value that. Thank you. 

The Biology of Trauma

 24

Addicted to Emotions and

the Innate Capacity for
Healing
Peter Levine, PhD

Dr. Aimie: Welcome to The Biology of Trauma
Summit. I am your host. And today I have with
me someone who’s become very influential in
my life, and this is Dr. Peter Levine. And he is
someone who, I’m not sure if I ever told you this
story, Peter, but the way that I actually got started
working with somatic experiencing was I had
moved back down to California, in order to switch
from general surgery residency to preventive
medicine residency. To intentionally focus on
attachment, trauma, and addictions. That was my
new decision for my life and my focus.  that it’s allowed me. And then I brought this into
And I had, of course, come across your work
with all of my work with my son and attachment,
and trying to rewire the nervous system. And an
email came across my desk one day where you
were holding one of the trainings out in Santa
Monica. And it was an invitation for those who
were in training to come and have this experience
with you. And I was like, “Well, of course, I want
to meet Dr. Peter Levine and see him work in
person. Of course.”
And so I go to sign up, and I get this lovely
message back, I’m assuming it was from Melissa,
or whoever. And they said, “Well, you actually
have to be a student of somatic experiencing
in order to come to these trainings.” And I was
like, “Well, then I guess I’ll just become a student,
because I really want to have this in person
experience.” So that’s how I ended up signing
up for the San Diego training and the somatic
experiencing basics, and then commuted from
where I was at the time at Loma Linda University,
attending a residency, and started my two year
somatic experiencing training. 
But it has changed my life, of course, and you
know this, that’s no surprise to you. Because
everybody who comes into this, like it changes
their life. And both on a personal level, and on a
professional level, the amount of just increased
capacity for joy and presence, and a lightness
all of the work that I do now, and everyone that
I’m working with. Whether that be specifically
for stored trauma and working with the nervous
system, or even on the addiction side of things,
and we’re working on that.
Like, the somatic experiencing is something
that I bring into now, every medical encounter
and consultation, and work that I’m doing with
people. So, thank you so much for your amazing
contribution to the world. And what you have
done is going to be a legacy that you have
created. And thank you, and thank you for the
time today to be here with us. 
Dr. Levine: Wow, thank you for the kind
introduction, Aimie. 
Dr. Aimie: So one thing that I have seen and I
really wanted to... this is what partly inspired
me to go into trauma, was that even as a

The Biology of Trauma


general surgery resident and looking at all
these people coming in with all of their physical
health conditions, I saw just how much that past
experiences and stored trauma were a part of
their patterns that had become their biology. And
that many people, and myself included, were
actually living in a state of chronic freeze without
even realizing what that was. 
And many people talk about chronic stress, not
realizing that there’s stress and sympathetic,
but then there’s overwhelm and the freeze
response. And so many people are living in that
overwhelmed and chronic freeze state without
understanding what that is, or even that they’re
there. So I would love for you to share with
people what you’ve learned about the body and
the trauma, and how a person actually comes to
be living in a chronic freeze state and what that
would even look like for them.  let’s just look at this image. This is talking about
Dr. Levine: Okay. Maybe, I’ll say a couple of
words before I show this image. The thing about
addictive chemicals, and even addictive processes
is that they stimulate very powerful systems for
which we’re evolutionarily prepared. And they are
meant to function endogenously, by and large.
And so these are chemicals that are going on in
our brain. But then there are these chemicals that
stimulate those systems in our brain.  Dr. Aimie: Hard to outrun.
Dr. Aimie: And if I can just pause because I’m
not sure that many people will understand that
word endogenously. So when you’re saying
endogenously, that just means that we have
these systems already in our body, already in our
biology, and we have these natural endorphins.
We have this natural opiate system. We have
these natural systems.
Dr. Levine: Exactly. And the two that are most
associated with addiction is the opioid system
and the dopamine system. And they have various
different functions. But the opioid system
particularly prepares us for pain, for physical pain,
The Biology of Trauma
25
and I’ll tell you a little bit of a story here, but also
the emotional pain because they really involve
almost identical brain systems. So let me give you
a visual on how powerful these internal systems
are in muting pain and preventing us from
experiencing the full power of pain. So here we
go. I’m going to hit share. 
Dr. Aimie: And while you do that, I will add that
the opiate system is our endogenous system for
numbing pain, all kinds of pain, physical pain,
emotional pain. 
Dr. Levine: That’s correct. Now, it’s interesting
because my brother, I have two brothers, my
brother, John, John D. Levine, he’s also an MD,
PhD, he basically discovered how the placebo
response works in the brain, with the internal
opioid systems. So we’ll get back to that. So
biology and survival. 
This is an image of a predator, prey encounter
between a cheetah and an impala that takes place
on the Serengeti plains. And the cheetah is the
fastest land mammal, by far, and it’s able to sprint
at speeds of like 65 miles an hour. That would be
like 120 kilometers an hour, something like this.
Dr. Levine: But the only thing is, it can only keep
up this speed for about 20 seconds. Then all its
energy is spent. And if it’s unable to make a kill in
six encounters, then her cubs will not survive, she
won’t survive, and the species won’t survive. 
Dr. Aimie: That’s a strong evolutionary drive for
survival right there. 
Dr. Levine: Exactly. So when you watch this, may
I suggest that you become aware of your inner
sensations as you see it? The bodily sensations,
any feelings that come up, and any thoughts
 26

or images that come to your mind’s eye as you Institute in Big Sur. And one of the requirements
observe this and just notice how it plays out in that I had, they would give me lodging and food,
nature. Not triggering.  but I would have to work with a group from the
community, usually twice a week. And so I would
Dr. Aimie: There it goes.  sit in a room and then a number of people from
the community or seminarians could come, and
Dr. Levine: So, interesting, huh?  continue to process whatever was going on with
them. 
Dr. Aimie: Yeah, it definitely brought up a lot of
stuff for me.  So I noticed, I was able to easily to work with
people, I think this was the group on the
Dr. Levine: Especially when we identify with one Thursday. But then one Thursday, when people
or the other.  came in, they just started emoting almost
immediately. And I was really struck by the
Dr. Aimie: Exactly, yes.  difference, and I thought, “What’s happening?”
And then I noticed, on the bulletin board by the
Dr. Levine: So anyhow, at the end, when both the dining room, there was an announcement that
cheetah and then the hyena is chewing on the they had these groups, they were kind of called
gazelle, on the impala, there is no pain. The pain emotional release groups or hyperventilation
is blunted. This is such a very, very, very powerful groups, and that it was normally on a Wednesday
system. evening, but it was canceled for that Wednesday. 

[10:10] Then I wondered, what would happen when

Now, I’ve talked a little bit about my brother’s
research. This is back in 1977. He was very,
very curious about these pain systems that are
internal, that are in the brain, and in the body.
And so he believed that the opioid system is
significant in regulating pain.  they possibly stimulated the same system? So I
He worked with a mandibular surgeon. And they
had a group of people who had just had surgery,
jaw surgery, not very pleasant. And they were
having intravenous infusion, and they were told
that they were going to be getting a very powerful
pain medication this way. And a good 50, 60, even
70% of the people had significant pain relief, really
pain relief, as much as the gold standard of pain
management, which is opioids. So that’s what this
system is geared to do.  realizing that emotional pain and physical pain are
So, okay, now, let’s go back also to this time in
history. So I was living and teaching at the Esalen
I did the...? And then they were transferred, I
think, to Sunday. And then on the Monday group,
again, I noticed that people were accessible. So I
wondered, is it possible that people could actually
become addicted to the emotional release
itself, even addicted to the emotions because
excitedly called up my brother, remember this
way before iPhones and such.
And I said, “John, is it possible that emotional
pain and physical pain are very similar in the
brain?” And he said, because this was the
common wisdom at the time, “No, they’re
entirely different.” So then, of course, as research
continued, many people and he... not many, but
a number of researchers, as well as John, were
very similar. And that the endogenous opioid... oh,
let me go one with the experiment, I left out an
important part. 

The Biology of Trauma

 27

of stress into that overwhelm and that freeze

Okay, so let’s just say 60% of the people had
significant pain relief. So then he told them
the same message, “This is going to be a very
powerful pain relieving medicine,” and then
they were administered Naloxone. And then
the placebo effect disappeared, it was virtually
completely gone.  of overwhelming helplessness. I would only add
Dr. Aimie: For those who don’t know what
Naloxone is, Naloxone is a blocker of the opiate
receptor.  feelings of overwhelming helplessness. And that’s
Dr. Levine: Correct. And if somebody overdoses,
I guess you know very well, they come into
the emergency room, if they believe they’re
overdosing. They’ll give them an injection and
Naloxone and boom, they’ll be stone sober and
very angry.  important to really value that in the person’s
Dr. Aimie: Yes. And in full blown withdrawals if
they’ve taken opiates. 
Dr. Levine: That’s right. So again, the opiates are
meant to work internally and they have their own
wisdom, their own function, their own survival
value. But if you just keep pumping them in from
the outside, that’s when the addiction occurs.
So, again, this chronic freeze response, which
includes probably dissociation, that in a way,
people can become even addicted to that. And so
therapists need to appreciate that possibility.  or an imbalance on something but your system,
Dr. Aimie: There’s some comfort to living in a
freeze state because there is this numbed feeling
to life’s pain. And this is where many people are
at when life becomes overwhelming, it becomes
too much. Even just this morning, I’m thinking
of a mom that I was working with. And I just had
her do a simple somatic exercise of pushing away
something, and immediately she had this impulse
to curl up into a ball and cry. And it’s like, yeah,
like, that’s how strong the pull is towards the
freeze response when we’re constantly living, not
only in stress, but we’ve gone beyond the point
response. 
Dr. Levine: That’s right. Freud, before he got
off the rails and went on with the Oedipal thing,
he defined trauma as a breach in the protective
barrier against stimulation, leading to feelings
one thing to that, because it was a really very fine
definition; trauma is a breach in the protective
barrier against over stimulation, leading to
that shutdown state, that dissociated state. 
And again, it’s a very biological state, it serves a
tremendous function. And with people who have
had early trauma, it served the survival value,
without it, people may not have survived. So it’s
behavior and in their emotional range, and so
forth. 
Dr. Aimie: Let’s talk a little bit about that stored
trauma, because one of the things that I teach
on the medical side of things when it comes to
the biology of trauma, and in my program, is that
there are biological factors that will predispose
you to trauma; because it makes your internal
environment that much closer to overwhelm all
the time. For some people, it may be genetics, for
other people, it may be an acquired deficiency
biologically, is not at the capacity level to handle
much stimulation, or much responsibility. 
Or it’s more sensitive to the environment, even
sensitive to light, sensitive to noises, let alone
being sensitive to emotional stress. And so we
have these biological factors that can predispose
us almost to trauma. But then we look at this fact
that people experience early trauma in their life,
many people not even recognizing that it is a form
of trauma, if it was just their childhood dynamics,
and there wasn’t abuse or neglect that they can

The Biology of Trauma


look back to. So not understanding that they have
this early stored trauma. But talk to us about
the impact of this early stored trauma then, on a
person’s biology as they develop and they grow.  Dr. Levine: Right, and especially later
Dr. Levine: Touch is a critical part of the human
experience. Touch and holding, and moving. If
you look almost anywhere in the world, you’ll see
caregivers, mothers, fathers, whatever, holding
babies, touching babies, rocking babies. These
are all things that actually affect the cerebellum.
And when I first proposed neurophysiological
underpinning somatic experiencing, I wrote that
the cerebellum forms a basic matrix upon which
all we will feel and know about the world. And at
the time, people said, “Well, that’s ridiculous. It
just has to do with movement.”
[20:00]
So if you get a stroke, your movement is dis-
coordinated. And at the time there was like maybe
two paragraphs in the physiology anatomy book
about the cerebellum, mostly about its anatomy.
So, now if you go and research the cerebellum
in the medical library, you’ll get books this thick
with research on the cerebellum. And it regulates
everything in our whole brain body system. It’s
really an extraordinarily significant part of how we
experience the world.  when that happens, you need more and more,
And now again, it’s been shown that there is a
two way connection between the cerebellum and
almost any other area in the brain, especially
the emotional, but even the prefrontal areas
of the cortex. So anyhow, those touching and
that holding is what gives rise to bonding and
attachment. And attachment is absolutely critical.
And probably or I don’t know, arguably, but there
may be involvement of some of the opioid system
in those early experiences, but again, from the
internal biological.  there’s the chase, and all of this stuff is exciting.
Dr. Aimie: And there’s certainly dopamine
The Biology of Trauma
28
associated with that bonding and that attachment
process. 
development, that go into toddlerhood. Well,
that’s, “The world is my oyster.” That’s everything
that the child is just exploding and everything is
new, and everything has to be experienced, and
everything to be put in the mouth and see how it
feels in the mouth. That’s the dopamine system.
It’s a motivational system. Again, that’s what it’s
meant to do internally. 
But again, if we’re using external agents, like
stimulants, like amphetamines, and so forth,
cocaine, that system becomes, again, highly,
highly, highly stimulated. And it requires more
and more. And it just gets derailed from its
normative process, from its evolutionary
process of exploration, of motivation. I think
one of the things, now that marijuana is like,
at least decriminalized, which I’m completely
in agreement with, but people who seem to be
habitual smokers really seem to lose a main
motivational component. 
So again, these are all systems that are inside
the brain, already, the brain in the body but they
can be hijacked by these different chemicals. And
and more. And that’s where the downward spiral
is, I believe, of the addictive process. 
Dr. Aimie: And that can happen not only with the
substances, but behavioral types of addictions as
well, it’s the same system.
Dr. Levine: The same system. I mean, the classic
one is the sexual addiction, I’m speaking again,
generally. But in the population I’ve seen and
work with, these are men, mostly men, and then
 
Dr. Aimie: You get the dopamine rush with that.
 29

person contact their internal sensations. And

Dr. Levine: That’s right, the dopamine rush. But
then there’s not an increase in bonding along with
the sexual act. So I mean, what can you say? These
systems are so important and they’re so easily
hijacked by external chemicals and behaviors.  I just want to say a couple of words about trauma
Dr. Aimie: So let’s talk about these points as
actual points of intervention to bring the system
back to a state of regulation. And coming back
to the movement and the cerebellum, that is
obviously a huge piece because when we’ve had
these stored trauma patterns in our nervous
system, playing out possibly from early childhood,
when we go back to some movements, it’s
amazing how much emotions can come up with
movements.  Then there’s another form of explicit memory,
And emotions that don’t necessarily have any
words to them, don’t have memories. But these
emotional experiences come up in the body just
with certain movements. So talk to us about some
of the power of the movements that you’ve seen
with the body and engaging the nervous system in
that way.  from? It just came, like out of the blue, seemingly
Dr. Levine: Yeah, gone beyond the words. Gone
beyond the words, the wisdom is. So when we’re
able to tune into our bodies, usually with the help
of a practitioner, when we’re able to tune into our
bodies, then we find an entire whole world, an
entire universe, inside internal sensations. And
when we’re able to enter those sensations, feel
those sensations, they often give us very subtle
movements. You were talking about a client of
yours that you were working with, about pushing
something away.  them feel so horrible because they know this
Well, yes, that’s really important because if
we’ve been overwhelmed, we haven’t been able
to stop something. So all of these movements
have their internal wisdom. And again, that’s
something that’s not addictive; that really, again,
works to reset some of these systems. So, I’ll
often use a series of exercises, again, to help the
just to notice, when a slight subtle movement
begins, and to help guide the person in those
movements.
memory. There are basically two systems of
memory, those that are explicit, and those that
are implicit. And there’s a lot of misunderstanding,
even of professionals, about the difference
between these two systems. And so the explicit
systems involve declarative memory. So I had to
remember that I had this event with you at 11
o’clock, and how to turn my computer on and so
forth. That’s all declarative memory.
but it’s less conscious, it’s called episodic or
autobiographical memory. Then there’s a whole
strata below that of implicit memory, and those
involve emotional memories and procedural
memories. So for example, we may meet
somebody, and all of a sudden we have this
strong, strong emotion. Where did that come
out of the blue. Well, no, that is an emotional
memory that’s being evoked. It’s devoid of
content, but then kind of exists in its own capsule,
continuing to influence and affect the person. 
Then there are the procedural memories and
those are the so called body memories. So for
example, somebody who has had sexual trauma,
when they’re touched by a caring partner, all
of a sudden, they retract and they feel maybe
nauseous, and they just can’t go on. And it makes
person cares about them and loves them. Yet,
they react as though they’re threatening their own
life. 
Dr. Aimie: And they’re not able to control that
body reaction.

The Biology of Trauma


Dr. Levine: No, it just happens. And those are
what are called procedural or body memories.
And all of our pre-verbal trauma are encoded in
those kinds of systems, the procedural systems.
I know there was so much confusion about this,
that my most recent book is specifically about
that, it’s Trauma and Memory: Brain and Body
in a Search for the Living Past. So, really how we
work therapeutically with these different memory
systems.  they may need to have some kind of detox, and it
Dr. Aimie: And just for the audience who may
not be familiar as much with your work up until
now, the trauma is stored in the nervous system,
right? Like, the trauma is not actually in the event.
It’s in the nervous system, and it causes this
dysregulation of the nervous system. And that’s a
form of defining trauma, is seeing that the body
has not been able to fully return back to a healthy
homeostasis, regulated state. And it leaves these
implicit memories in the nervous system that are
going to be uncontrollable on a conscious level,
because they’re such strong survival instincts that
the brain and the nervous system take over in
those moments.  It’s feeling everything. And before there’s that time
Dr. Levine: Yeah, you hit it right on the head
when you say regulation.
[30:00]
And again, that’s one of the key features of
somatic experiencing, to help people work to
regulate themselves. Because when we can’t
regulate ourselves, then we look for an outside
substance or person, or behavior. It seems a little
bit like it’s regulating but it’s not. But at least it
seems that way. And so one of the things that’s
really important in working with the addictive
process is to help people learn how to begin to
self-regulate. Because like you said, the trauma is
not in the event, the event has happened a long
time ago, it’s gone, it doesn’t exist anymore.  contributed to that addiction.
The Biology of Trauma
30
Dr. Aimie: We may not even have memory of the
event. 
Dr. Levine: Well, except for the implicit memory.
It’s in there somewhere. So again, when we work
with these early imprints, we can then again, help
the person internally regulate. And that really is
where things turn around. Now again, of course,
when people are in the strong, addictive process
really has to be in a safe place. One of the things I
do is I consult with The Meadows, it’s an addiction,
trauma, anxiety, and depression treatment center.
And that creates a safe enough place for the
people to begin to detox and again, to work with
some of their emotional wounding. 
Dr. Aimie: Because those emotional wounds
come up during detox. As you’ve been putting
outside substances in that affect that opiate
system and the dopamine system, and all of
a sudden, you take that away, the body goes
through a shock, and all of a sudden, it’s much
more awake than what it has ever been before.
period, where things kind of settle back down
and go more towards the normal amount of your
endogenous system, there is that period of time
where everything is that much more sensitive;
that much more reactive, with that change in
biology.
Dr. Levine: Or that much shut down and
depressed because again, if a person who has
been using amphetamines, when they’re detoxed,
they don’t have any motivation. They’re just in this
basic shutdown state. So you have to gradually
build that and build that. So it really is important
what substances the person is addicted to
because gives you some information about how
to work to help them regulate, and what kinds of
early traumatic events and processes may have
 
 31
Dr. Aimie: What had happened, what was their
nervous system state like that those were the
substances that they were attracted to and
responded to?  you take a benzo... or even drinking. If you take a
Dr. Levine: That’s right. And I don’t want to say
too much about this but I’m also always curious
about what kinds of events pre-dispose the
person for different kinds of addiction. And, again,
please don’t take this as gospel, these are just
some desultory observations that I’ve made. And
I think when there’s early trauma around birth
and early attachment issues, there’s a tendency
of wanting the opioid to just take the person back
into this bliss state.
Dr. Aimie: The opiates and the benzodiazepines. 
Dr. Levine: Well, and the benzodiazepines, yeah.
Dr. Aimie: Either one that just shuts down that
system and puts them kind of in this numbed,
dissociative, chronic freeze state.  Dr. Aimie: Right, and you’re stopping the process
Dr. Levine: Yeah, exactly. And then my
experience, again, this is very limited, is that I
believe, that people with stimulant addictions,
like cocaine addictions, that this probably at least
arises in part, from their developmental process
around 18 months to two years, where they’re
really extremely active, and again, exploring
everything. So they’re really stimulating that
system. And if you watch a two year old, a little bit,
they look like an addict. They’re just like they’re
on this course. But again, when that has been
thwarted or boundaries have not been set...
because you need to set clear boundaries with a
child at that age, or else they’ll just go off the rails.
Dr. Aimie: Out of control.  starting to have health issues that were related to
Dr. Levine: Out of control. So again, when that
hasn’t occurred, I think there’s a likelihood, a
greater likelihood that there will be some kind of
The Biology of Trauma
an addiction like the amphetamines or cocaine.
And again, when there’s a lot of inner anxiety the
tendency is to use benzodiazepines. And when
benzo, all of a sudden you feel, “Wow, this is really
great. I don’t feel anxiety anymore.” Of course, the
next day...
Dr. Aimie: It’s even higher.
Dr. Levine: Exactly, more and more anxiety.
So more and more benzo. And by the way, I’m
definitely not against use of different drugs at
different times, when they’re used appropriately. 
Dr. Aimie: Exactly. They can be tools.
Dr. Levine: They can be tools, they can be
helpful, for sure. But again, when that’s all you’re
relying on, you’re really setting up the addictive
component. 
of the nervous system getting back to anything
that is natural and endogenous and its ability to
effectively self-regulate. 
Dr. Levine: That’s correct. 
Dr. Aimie: So there’s a million more things that
we could talk about just on that, I feel like we
could dive deep into that. But I also wanted to
swing back around and talk to the audience about
some of the more chronic health conditions,
something that you’ve been working on, actually
recently, even specifically, around COVID that
I think has been amazing. Because one of the
things that got me into this, reading your book,
even for the first time, was realizing that I was
early childhood and stored trauma.
I didn’t understand why at the time, of course,
but even autoimmune issues and chronic fatigue,
 32
and started to have some chronic pain. And it’s
like, “Wait a second, I know the studies. I’ve been
through medical school. I’ve adopted my son from
the foster care system. I’m aware of the adverse
childhood experiences. So I know that these
symptoms that I am starting to have now are
associated with that. Why? Why am I having that?”
And this really led me into starting to see
medicine through a very different lens, where a
lot of the chronic fatigue, the fibromyalgia, the
autoimmune, like all of this is evidence, is just
one more consequence of the biology of trauma
kind of playing out in a person’s biology over
time, leading to these symptoms. And one of the
things that I’ve been concerned about is that even
looking at something like any post viral syndrome,
but especially COVID.  come all the way out. And then just let the breath
And who are the people that are at risk for this
long hauler syndrome? These people who don’t
seem to bounce back as quickly as possible, who
have symptoms that linger. And my concern
is that it comes down to the nervous system
not being able to regulate and having these
imbalances in the nervous system. But I know
you’ve been doing some work around this. So talk
to us about the COVID and post-COVID, chronic
fatigue, and some of the successes that you’ve
had using somatic experiencing with that.  asked me before, what are the things that I’m
Dr. Levine: Again, I want to be careful, to say I’ve
worked with a very limited number of people. And
I use similar tools that I have used in the past with
people who have these kinds of conditions that
you’re describing, irritable bowel, fibromyalgia,
chronic fatigue, possibly some autoimmune kind
of conditions. And using various tools that we
evoke in somatic experiencing, and just working
with some of those people. One of the things also
I discovered is that when people have gotten sick,
there’s a lot of fear, if not terror.  related conditions for at least, I think it was like six
Dr. Aimie: Yeah, there has been.
The Biology of Trauma
Dr. Levine: And that’s also a factor, to uncouple
that fear from those physical sensations. I found
that in a few cases to be very important. It was
one student actually, this is a little bit different,
I worked with her afterwards, but she was in
hospital. I’m not sure if she was on the ventilator
yet but her oxygen level was very low, seriously
low. And she was doing some of the SE, somatic
exercises, and I’ll demonstrate the one she was
doing. 
The idea is taking an easy, full breath. Anybody, if
you would like to join, please join if you feel like it.
To take an easy, full breath and on the exhalation,
making the sound boo, as though it’s coming from
the belly. So it’s like, “Booooo,” and let that sound
come in, filling belly, and then again, “Booooo.” So
she did that a couple of times and her saturation
level went up about six points. I think they were a
little bit wondering what was going on here. 
[40:00]
So again, it really disrupts normal breath
regulation, and when you can establish that, that
will affect the person’s whole energy level. So I
would hope sometimes to be able to get a grant
to study these kind of things. And I think you
excited about? Because over the last 40, 40 plus
years I’ve worked with a lot of people with these
kinds of conditions. And by and large, most of
them have significantly improved. 
So I wanted to see if there was some way to guide
people with these exercises, without a therapist
doing it or being there. And so I kind of did a
proof of concept with a group of about, I think,
there was about a dozen young women, or no,
women of many different ages, that had fibro, and
years. And by and large, everybody except one,
greatly improved. The one that didn’t had a whole
 33
lot of multiple spine surgeries.  pseudo regulation of behaviors and chemical
And so that kind of gave me the kind of proof
of concept because I didn’t do anything except,
like, guide them on the exercise. And I was there
and alive. So now I’m working with Sounds True
to develop something that they’ll be able to do
online; that people with those kinds of syndromes
can use on their own. So, knock on wood, that
will... yeah.
Dr. Aimie: Yeah, no, and it’s been my mission
since kind of experiencing this personally and
professionally, to bridge this world more, of
bringing trauma and somatic experiencing into
medicine. And bringing medicine and the biology
stuff into the trauma therapy side of things as
well, because there’s so many biological factors
that will keep the nervous system stuck in a place
of survival. If you’re deficient in certain things, if
you’ve got a lot of inflammation going on, those
are things that will certainly affect the nervous
system’s ability to change and rewire, and process
a lot of this stuff. But with this work, Peter, like,
there’s so much hope.  Dr. Aimie: In full color.
And I would love for this just to become more
common knowledge, where, like you say, it’s
not where you go, and you see a therapist, the
average person has this knowledge and these
tools for how to live life differently. Because it
really does change your day, and how you walk
through your day. And when you bump into
something, when you have a near accident, like
it changes everything that you can do to support
your body and make sure that you are not having
this fear of being caught up in the event that then
gets stored in your nervous system. And that
charging creates this chronic dysregulated state of
your nervous system.  the effects that it is having on helping people
Dr. Levine: That’s right. Again, hard to over
emphasize this but really, it’s so much about
learning how to regulate ourselves without the
The Biology of Trauma
dependencies. I think that’s really the task. And
my experience is when people get it, then that
compulsion to act out is greatly diminished. 
Dr. Aimie: And that’s where I see people having
much more choice in terms of how they want to
show up in the world, because they’re not having
these compulsive tendencies to act out, even if it’s
in relationships, or whatever. And it’s so much on
an unconscious level that they don’t realize that
they’re doing it until they look back. And they’re
like, “Oh, this is what I always do. Like, I always get
to this point in a relationship and then I do this.”
Or, “I always get to this point in my career and
then I pull back, and I want to stay small. I want to
stay safe.” This is stuff that when you have your
nervous system in a regulated state, and you’re
able to have the skills to self-regulate, the world
really does open up so much more to you. 
Dr. Levine: Oh, yes, yes, indeed. I mean it’s like
the blinders come off. And you see the world as it
is.
Dr. Levine: In full color. And there’s been a lot
of stuff going on in the world, which is not so
pleasant to see, but there’s also a tremendous
amount of beauty. But being also able to hold
the two of them together, I think is an important
process in people’s growth. 
Dr. Aimie: Thank you so much for your time
today. Thank you for your work. Like I said, your
work cannot be underestimated in terms of how
it is changing people but on a global scale too, as
all of your efforts with the somatic experiencing
international. Now that you’ve changed that and
become healthy, whole, and truly living alive. 
Dr. Levine: Yeah. Well, I think that’s the idea and
a nice gift to be able to share with the world, to
 34

return to our own inner vitality. And I think there

is a solution for so much, including addictions,
is to be able to feel our vitality, our life energy,
our life force, and to choose how we direct that
energy, that vital energy. The French word, elan
vital. 

Dr. Aimie: Thank you. 

Dr. Levine: So, one other thing. That trauma is a

fact of life. We can’t escape it. But the good news
is it probably doesn’t have to be a life sentence.
So, I’ll just leave you with that thought.

The Biology of Trauma