Steven Hotze's 2022 Deposition

Steven F.
Hotze
January 4, 2022
Cause No: 2021-18494
David Lopez Vs. Steven F. Hotze, et al
Job # 102420
Steven F. Hotze - January 4, 2022
1 3
1 CAUSE NO. 2021-18494 1 INDEX

2 DAVID LOPEZ ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF 2
)
3 VS. ) HARRIS COUNTY, T E X A S 3 Page
)
4 STEVEN F. HOTZE AND LIBERTY) 4
CENTER FOR GOD AND COUNTRY ) 295TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT Stipulations...........................................1
5 5
Appearances............................................2
6 ******************************************************** 6
7 ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF 7
Testimony of STEVEN F. HOTZE
8 STEVEN F. HOTZE 8
Examination by Mr. Grigg...........................4
9 JANUARY 4, 2022 9
10 ******************************************************** 10
Changes and Signature..............................84/85
11 11
Reporter's Certificate................................86
12 ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of STEVEN F. HOTZE, 12
13 produced as a witness at the instance of the Plaintiff, 13
EXHIBITS
14 was taken in the above-styled and numbered cause on 14
Hotze Exhibit No. 1....................................9
15 JANUARY 4, 2022, from 2:03 p.m. to 4:00 p.m., before 15 (First Amended Notice of Deposition)
16 Cynthia C. Miller, CSR in and for the State of Texas, 16 Hotze Exhibit No. 2...................................23
(Defendant First Amended Initial Disclosures)
17 reported by machine shorthand, at the offices of The 17
Hotze Exhibit No. 3...................................30
18 Woodfill Law Firm, PC, 3 Riverway, Suite 750, Houston, 18 (Invoice and 1099)
19 Texas, pursuant to the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure 19 Hotze Exhibit No. 4...................................37
(Defendant First Supplemental Responses)
20 and the following stipulation and waiver of counsel: 20
21 IT WAS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and between 21
22 counsel that if the original of said deposition is not 22
23 signed or available at the time of trial or any hearing, 23
24 an unsigned copy may be used in lieu thereof. 24
25 25
2 4
1 APPEARANCES 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Today's Tuesday,

2 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 2 January 4th, 2022. We're on the record at 2:03 p.m.
3 Mr. Dicky Grigg 3 STEVEN F. HOTZE,
LAW OFFICE OF DICKY GRIGG, P.C.
4 4407 Bee Caves Road, Suite 111 4 having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Building 1
5 West Lake Hills, Texas 78746 5 EXAMINATION
Telephone: 512-474-6061
6 Facsimile: 512-582-8260 6 BY MR. GRIGG:
E-mail: Dicky@grigg-law.com
7 7 Q. Tell us your name, please, sir.
Mr. K. Scott Brazil
8 BRAZIL & DUNN, LLP 8 A. Steve Forrest Hotze.
13231 Champion Forest Drive, Suite 406
9 Houston, Texas 77068 9 Q. And, Dr. Hotze, you understand that we're
Telephone: 281-580-6310
10 Facsimile: 281-580-6362 10 taking your deposition in a case that our client,
E-mail: Scott@brazilanddunn.com
11 11 Mr. Lopez, has filed against you and the Center, do you
12 12 not?
FOR THE DEFENDANT LIBERTY CENTER FOR GOD AND COUNTRY:
13 13 A. Yes.
Mr. Gary Polland
14 POLLAND & ASSOCIATES 14 Q. Have you had your deposition taken before?
1533 West Alabama Street
15 Houston, Texas 77006 15 A. Oh, yes.
Telephone: 410-771-3035
16 Facsimile: 410-771-3036 16 Q. And so you understand the rules of a
E-mail: Pollandlaw@yahoo.com
17 17 deposition, do you not? All right. Let me go over --
18 18 A. Okay.
FOR THE DEFENDANT STEVEN F. HOTZE:
19 19 Q. You know, and you've had a chance, I guess, to
Mr. Kyle Pinkerton
20 WOODFILL LAW FIRM, P.C. 20 talk to Mr. Polland and Mr. Woodfill about this
3 Riverway, Suite 750
21 Houston, Texas 77056 21 deposition?
Telephone: 713-528-8269
22 Facsimile: 713-751-3058 22 A. Sure. Sure.
E-mail: Kpinkerton@woodfilllaw.com
23 23 Q. And, basically, you know, even though this is
24 ALSO PRESENT: 24 sort of a formal setting, if you need to take a break at
25 Ms. Myra Thetford, Videographer 25 any time, please tell us.
ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

5 7
1 A. Good. Thank you. 1 Q. Sure.

2 Q. The two rules to basically remember is you 2 A. As you can imagine, over the years.
3 have sworn to tell the truth. And we all expect you to 3 Q. Right. But when you do make one of those
4 tell the truth. You understand that? 4 tapes for your followers, so to speak, you're truthful
5 A. Right. Sure. 5 and honest with them, are you not?
6 Q. And the court reporter here feverishly pecking 6 A. Yes.
7 away at this machine is going to type up everything I 7 Q. Okay. You understand, do you not, that you're
8 say and everything you say. You understand that? 8 here and sort of wearing two hats. One you're here as
9 A. Yes. 9 Dr. Steven Hotze, individually, and also as the
10 Q. And at the trial of this case, if you say 10 representative of the Center. You understand that, do
11 something different than you've said today, the law 11 you not?
12 allows me to confront you with what you've said today. 12 A. Yes.
13 You understand that? 13 Q. And have you had to -- an opportunity to talk
14 A. Yes. 14 to Mr. Poland about --
15 Q. So you understand that being under oath and 15 A. Polland.
16 being truthful is important? 16 Q. Polland?
17 A. Yes. 17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. Well, let me ask you: I know that one of the 18 MR. POLLAND: Poland is somewhere else.
19 foundations of the Center is the Ten Commandments; 19 A. Poland is outside of Russia.
20 correct? 20 MR. POLLAND: That's right.
21 A. Yes. 21 A. Polland is right here in Houston.
22 Q. And one of the Ten Commandments is not to -- 22 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) And if I do mispronounce it,
23 not to lie, not bear false witness. 23 I'm not trying to be --
24 A. False witness. Right. 24 A. I know.
25 Q. So let me ask you, even though you may not be 25 Q. No. But you want your name pronounced right.
6 8
1 under oath, when you have press conferences, are you 1 A. Right. Sure. Sure.
2 honest and truthful? 2 Q. All right. Mr. Polland, has he gone over with
3 A. Yes. 3 you the responsibilities you have in this deposition as
4 Q. And you're not trying to mislead the audience 4 the corporate representative?
5 or anybody that's there, you're truthful? 5 A. Yes. We have talked about that.
6 A. I'm truthful. 6 Q. All right. And you understand that as the
7 Q. And what about when you give interviews, are 7 corporate representative, you are speaking for the
8 you truthful? 8 Center?
9 A. Yes. 9 A. Yes.
10 Q. I've seen, oh, for example, one you gave with 10 Q. And you understand as corporate representative
11 Alan Keyes on Let's Talk America. Do you recall giving 11 what you say today will bind the Center, you understand
12 that interview? 12 that?
13 A. I've -- I've been -- I can't recall 13 A. Yes.
14 specifically. 14 Q. Okay. And in noticing your deposition, there
15 Q. Right. 15 was a list of several topics. And did Mr. Polland show
16 A. Because I've been on his show numerous times. 16 those to you?
17 Q. And every time you're on his show, you're 17 A. Did you?
18 honest and truthful in what you say, are you not, sir? 18 MR. POLLAND: I didn't.
19 A. Yes, sir. 19 A. I don't think he did.
20 Q. Okay. Now, I've also seen some tapes that 20 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) All right.
21 you've made sort of thanking your supporters and asking 21 A. He's a busy attorney.
22 for donations. You made several tapes like that, have 22 Q. Huh?
23 you not? 23 A. He's a busy attorney.
24 A. I believe -- I believe I probably have. I 24 Q. And tardy.
25 can't recall exactly because I've had numerous tapes. 25 MR. POLLAND: And also was out of the

9 11
1 country, as you well know. Or maybe you don't remember, 1 activities of the Liberty Center. I operated in the
2 for three weeks, inaccessible. So there was no 2 Liberty Center in my capacity as president.
3 conferring with client, no conferring with counsel, 3 Q. All right.
4 nothing. 4 A. So...
5 MR. GRIGG: If you would mark this as 5 Q. So you are here as a representative?
6 Exhibit 1 and hand it to the witness. 6 A. That's right, of the Liberty Center.
7 (Hotze Exhibit No. 1 was marked and is 7 Q. And these topics, all seven listed --
8 made a part of this deposition.) 8 A. All --
9 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) And this is just the notice -- 9 Q. -- are you prepared to testify about those
10 THE REPORTER: Hang on. Hang on. 10 today?
11 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Dr. Hotze. 11 A. Well, we'll give it a crack.
12 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. Pardon me?
13 Q. Another rule that we need is for me not to be 13 A. We'll give it a crack.
14 talking when the court reporter is marking something 14 Q. All right. I want to --
15 because that really makes them mad -- 15 MR. POLLAND: I will say for the record,
16 A. Right. 16 so you'll know, Doc, that Jared filed objections to the
17 Q. -- when you're talking and they can't -- all 17 areas of inquiry regarding the requests.
18 right. Well, basically, this is the notice that we sent 18 THE WITNESS: Regarding these requests?
19 for your deposition. Have you seen that before? 19 MR. POLLAND: Yeah. Well, these areas --
20 A. I haven't, but I see a glaring error on it, 20 there are areas of testimony, but it was a subpoena
21 right off the bat. 21 duces tecum. So it was also meaning they were looking
22 Q. Okay. And what is that? 22 for documents, if there were any.
23 A. Look at the last paragraph, "you are hereby 23 So we responded, I responded on behalf of
24 notified that plaintiff, David Lopez, intends to take 24 Liberty regarding whether there are documents or not.
25 the oral personal deposition of Defendant, 25 And there are no documents that we haven't previously
10 12
1 Steve F. Lopez in his individual capacity." 1 produced.

2 Q. Just a second. 2 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) And I'll ask you later on in
3 (Interruption.) 3 the deposition, Doctor, about these documents.
4 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Okay. I -- there is one 4 A. Okay.
5 saving grace to this notice, Doctor. Mr. Brazil 5 Q. Okay. But I want to know a little bit about
6 prepared it, but you understand that you are the -- are 6 the Center. What is its legal name?
7 here as -- individually and also as a corporate rep? 7 A. The Liberty Center for God and Country.
8 A. I'm sorry. Yes. I'm the corporate 8 Q. All right. And when was it established,
9 representative. 9 ballpark?
10 Q. All right. And if you would look, it's got an 10 A. Sometime in the summer.
11 Exhibit A to it. 11 Q. Of?
12 A. Right. 12 A. Of '20.
13 Q. And those are topics that we have asked that 13 Q. 2020?
14 you be prepared to testify about. And if you would, 14 A. 2020.
15 glance through them, and let me know if you're prepared 15 Q. And basically, what was your purpose in
16 to talk about these topics. 16 establishing this center?
17 MR. PINKERTON: And for the record, these 17 A. To protect our constitutional rights.
18 are all going to be in his corporate capacity or his 18 Q. And who were the original directors or
19 capacity as president of the Liberty Center for God and 19 founders?
20 Country and not necessarily -- probably not his 20 A. Myself, Jeff Yates, and Sam Malone.
21 individual capacity. 21 Q. On the original papers you filed with the
22 MR. GRIGG: That is correct. 22 Secretary of State -- I'm not trying to trap you on
23 A. Okay. So we say here, you can have a personal 23 this.
24 deposition in my individual capacity. In my individual 24 A. Right.
25 capacity, I had nothing to do with -- with any of the 25 Q. Mr. Woodfill was also listed, Jared

13 15
1 Woodfill -- 1 Q. Also, I believe you said that these people

2 A. He was. 2 would use any means to disrupt the election?
3 Q. -- as a founder. 3 A. I don't know if I said those words or not. I
4 A. He may have been listed, too. Those three. 4 may have.
5 Q. And what is your position with the -- 5 Q. Okay.
6 A. I believe it's president. 6 A. I don't know. I can't remember.
7 Q. All right. And who are the other officers, if 7 Q. But you did say, for example, when you were
8 any? 8 talking to Mr. Keyes that you believed that these people
9 A. None, really. 9 were capable of stealing, lying, cheating, and killing,
10 Q. And does the Center have any employees? 10 to take the election?
11 A. No. 11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And I'm asking secretaries -- 12 Q. And you believed that?
13 A. No, no. 13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Or -- 14 Q. Also, you've referred to people in this scheme
15 A. No, no. 15 as you saw it, to be -- compared them to the Mafia,
16 Q. Okay. So as far as the day-to-day activities 16 haven't you?
17 of the Center, that's just you? 17 A. Yes.
18 A. Me. 18 Q. And that the don, the Mafia don --
19 Q. Now, I've seen in some of the things that you 19 A. That's right.
20 have said that one of the reasons that this center was 20 Q. -- was Rodney Ellis?
21 founded was because you were very concerned about voter 21 A. Yes.
22 fraud in the 2020 election? 22 Q. And you believed that, did you not?
23 A. Yes. 23 A. Yeah. You know that as well as I do.
24 Q. And that one of your purposes was to expose 24 Q. Pardon me?
25 and disrupt what you believe was going to be voter 25 A. You know that as well as I do. It's -- it's
14 16
1 fraud? 1 well-known.
2 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. I understand your position in that.
3 Q. And that you, one of your purposes would be to 3 Have you also, in some of these tapes that you've made,
4 stop and prevent voter fraud. Is that true? 4 talked about these people trying to commit voter fraud
5 A. Of course. That's what anyone, good citizen 5 were hoodlums, thugs, thieves, and robbers?
6 would want. 6 A. They're all those things, sir. They're
7 Q. Now, the people that you were trying to expose 7 criminals.
8 and disrupt, would you agree that anybody that's 8 Q. Okay. And certainly, you believe all those
9 committing voter fraud is committing a felony? 9 things, do you not?
10 A. Under the previous law, yes. 10 A. How many times do I have to say? You've asked
11 Q. And that these people you were trying to 11 me the same question repeatedly. The answer is yes, I
12 expose and disrupt then were -- by definition, were 12 believe they're criminals.
13 felons? 13 Q. Okay.
14 A. If convicted, if tried and convicted, yes, 14 A. I hope that will answer your question for you.
15 they would be felons, but -- but anyone who commits 15 Q. Well, since sort of that's your purpose to go
16 those acts at that time was committing a felony. 16 out and expose felons, weren't you a little scared, a
17 Q. Okay. And that was one of your purposes, to 17 little afraid?
18 get these people exposed, arrested, charged -- 18 A. No. Not a bit.
19 A. Yes. 19 Q. Well --
20 Q. -- and hopefully sent to prison? 20 A. You know why?
21 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. Please.
22 Q. And you believe you said that these people 22 A. Fret not yourself because of evil doers.
23 that were leading this voter fraud in Harris County, 23 Don't be envious of wrongdoers. They're going to wither
24 that they were evil and devious? 24 quickly like the grass and fade like the green earth.
25 A. Yes. 25 Dwell in the land and cultivate faithfulness. Delight

17 19
1 yourself in the Lord. He will give you the desires of 1 MR. POLLAND: Okay.
2 your heart. Commit your weight to the Lord. Trust in 2 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Well, let me ask you though,
3 him and he will do it. And he will make your light -- 3 can you give me the name of any of the investigators
4 he will make your judgment rise like light, and your 4 other than Mark Aguirre?
5 judgment as the noon day. 5 A. I can give you the name, I know of one other
6 That's Psalm 17, one, two, three. That's 6 investigator, Chuck Marler. And I can give you the name
7 one of many Psalms, I believe. I have no fear because I 7 of Mark Stevens.
8 fear of God. I have no fear of man. 8 Q. Would you spell those?
9 Q. Well -- 9 A. Marler, M-A-R-L-E-R, Chuck. And Stephens,
10 A. I'm untouchable, as long as God is protecting 10 Mark Stephens, P-H-E-N-S, S-T-E-P-H-E-N-S.
11 me. He has his angels about me. They could knock me 11 Q. All right. Now, did you or anyone from the
12 any time, I'm a target, but the answer is, do I fear, 12 Center, or at the direction of the Center, did you try
13 no. No fear. 13 to talk to the FBI?
14 Q. Well, isn't exposing, disrupting felons, isn't 14 A. Yes.
15 that a job for law enforcement? 15 Q. And did they follow through and -- with any of
16 A. Yes. 16 the --
17 Q. Why didn't you go through legal channels with 17 A. We -- I spoke with someone at the FBI prior to
18 law enforcement? 18 the election in November of '20. Had several phone
19 A. Because enforcement in Harris County is in the 19 calls with a gentleman down there. Next thing -- I
20 hands of the Democrat. DA Kim Ogg is part of the game. 20 didn't meet with him personally, but the FBI obviously
21 She's part of the whole -- the whole scheme, and she's 21 did something because they picked up Alex Jones. And he
22 part of the scheme. 22 was working for Biden at the time.
23 In -- when we did our investigation and 23 And then he got fired by Biden, got
24 took charges to the DA's office, they wouldn't even look 24 picked up by the FBI. And I don't know what the FBI
25 at them. 25 said to him. I don't know anything about that.
18 20
1 Q. Did you try to take your charges to the 1 Q. Did you or anybody from the Center, to your
2 Houston Police Department? 2 knowledge, talk to the DPS? DPS, Department of Public
3 A. I didn't personally. I mean, I wasn't in 3 Safety.
4 charge -- I wasn't in charge of bringing any of the 4 A. Not -- I don't -- I don't know. Not -- I
5 charges. 5 don't know if anybody did. That doesn't mean they
6 My job was simply to be able to 6 didn't.
7 facilitate people that knew what they were doing and 7 Q. Yeah. Mark Aguirre has said that he talked to
8 could investigate. 8 the DPS.
9 Q. Who was in charge of bringing charges or 9 A. Okay. He may have.
10 evidence to law enforcement? 10 Q. Do you have any evidence that that didn't
11 A. The -- any of the investigators, particularly 11 happen?
12 Mark Aguirre. But there were other investigators that 12 A. I have no idea.
13 brought -- brought charges. 13 Q. What about Texas Rangers, did you or somebody
14 Q. Name me -- who are some of these other 14 else from the Center talk to the Texas Rangers --
15 investigators that brought charges -- 15 A. I didn't -- I didn't talk to anybody in law
16 A. I don't know who was with Mark when he went 16 enforcement personally.
17 down there to the DA's office. I can't remember. He 17 Q. All right.
18 had somebody with him, another investigator. 18 A. And I don't know -- I don't know that they may
19 MR. POLLAND: Well, I'm going to object 19 have because I know they were looking at what was going
20 as to responsiveness. You don't have first-hand 20 on, and they were bringing it to people's attention at
21 knowledge. 21 different levels at the DA office. And as you say,
22 THE WITNESS: I don't. 22 apparently maybe the DPS. I don't know of anybody else,
23 MR. POLLAND: It would be hearsay, what 23 though.
24 other people told you. 24 Q. Okay. Now you say "they" were bringing it to
25 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 25 their attention. Who is "they"?

21 23
1 A. The investigator, Mark Aguirre, and whoever he 1 And so I helped him. I said, "I'll see
2 was working with. 2 what I can do and see if I can raise some money and we
3 Q. Okay. Those investigators that the Center was 3 can help you."
4 paying? 4 And so he simply submitted bills to us
5 A. I was paying -- I didn't pay any investigators 5 and went out. And I said whatever -- I don't know
6 except Mark Aguirre. 6 anything about private investigating, but I know Mark
7 Q. What about -- and I'm going to ask you did -- 7 does.
8 and maybe I just misunderstood. You went to the DA and 8 Q. All right.
9 they refused to -- 9 A. So I said, "whatever you got to do, you know,
10 A. I didn't go to the DA. Mark Aguirre and 10 let me know what it is, go do it."
11 another one -- 11 Q. Okay. So the Center paid Mark Aguirre to
12 MR. POLLAND: So that's hearsay. 12 investigate voter fraud?
13 MR. GRIGG: Well, but he can answer. 13 A. Right.
14 MR. POLLAND: Well, I'm going -- I'm 14 Q. All right. And let me ask you -- I'm going to
15 going to instruct you not to speculate on things you 15 show you some documents that your lawyer filed with the
16 don't know of first-hand knowledge. 16 court.
17 THE WITNESS: Well, I wasn't there -- 17 MR. GRIGG: And if you would mark this as
18 MR. POLLAND: You're not the best 18 Exhibit 2.
19 witness. 19 (Hotze Exhibit No. 2 was marked and is
20 A. I wasn't there first hand, I was just told. 20 made a part of this deposition.)
21 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Okay. Because you have made 21 A. Do I need to give you this back?
22 statements that the DA wouldn't do anything. 22 THE REPORTER: No, I get it. Put it over
23 A. Right. 23 here.
24 Q. What did you base those statements on? 24 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Off the record. Yeah. Just
25 A. On the -- on Mark Aguirre's telling me what 25 keep it separate because she needs the ones that are
22 24
1 happened. 1 marked back.

2 Q. Mark Aguirre has always stated that he went to 2 A. Right. Okay. So -- okay.
3 the Attorney General's office and tried to get them to 3 Q. All right. Let me get my copy here. Would
4 help. Do you know anything about that? 4 you read the title of that document?
5 A. I don't know anything about that. I do know 5 A. The title of -- okay. It says Defendant
6 that one of our investigators, Mark Stephens, had a 6 Liberty Center for God and Country's First Amended
7 document documenting all the voter fraud that had 7 Initial Disclosures.
8 occurred and sent that to the Texas Attorney General's 8 Q. And the signature line you see down there, who
9 office. 9 filed that, please?
10 Q. And this was Mark Stephens when he was working 10 A. Certificate of service?
11 as an investigator -- 11 Q. No. Well, you can read that, too, but it says
12 A. Right. 12 respectfully submitted by.
13 Q. -- for the Center? 13 A. Gary Polland.
14 A. He was working -- he worked under Mark -- 14 Q. Who is the lawyer in this case for the Center?
15 no -- none of the investigators nor did Mark Aguirre 15 A. Right.
16 work for me personally. They are private investigators. 16 Q. All right. I want you, if you will, please,
17 And they were funded by the Center in their work. They 17 to -- turn with me first starting with on Page 4.
18 asked for funding, and we funded them. 18 A. Okay.
19 Q. All right. Maybe so we can get this clear and 19 Q. No. 11.
20 talk about: What is your position on Mark Aguirre's 20 A. Okay.
21 relationship to the Center? 21 Q. And --
22 A. Mark Aguirre came to me sometime, it seems 22 A. Okay.
23 like in September, and requested help in trying to 23 Q. What this is is we asked the Center, through
24 evaluate and discover and shut down any voter fraud that 24 your lawyer, to submit the name, address, telephone
25 he felt was going on in Harris County. 25 number of persons having knowledge relevant to the facts

25 27
1 of this case. Okay? 1 in there. I didn't look at the officers's name, and I
2 A. Okay. 2 can't -- I don't know any of these other officers. What
3 Q. All right. What knowledge relevant to this 3 they would know about the case, I have no idea.
4 case does Officer J. Varela, No. 11, have? 4 Q. All right. And for the record, I'm just going
5 A. I have no idea. 5 to ask you about them --
6 Q. Did Mr. Polland talk to you before he 6 A. That's fine.
7 submitted these? 7 Q. -- and if you don't know, that's fair enough.
8 MR. POLLAND: I'm going to object to that 8 So you don't know what relevant --
9 and instruct you not to answer. That invades 9 A. Nothing about Taylor.
10 attorney/client privilege. 10 Q. All right. What about, do you know any
11 A. Okay. 11 relevant information that Officer Perez has?
12 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Have you even seen this 12 A. No, sir.
13 before? 13 Q. What about Officer Zatino Rodriguez?
14 A. I have -- if I've signed it, I've seen it. 14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. Well, let me ask you this: Does Mr. Polland 15 Q. All right. Over here, No. 15, is Lieutenant
16 have authority to represent you, the Center, in this 16 Wayne Rubio of the Texas Attorney General's office. Do
17 case? 17 you know what relevant information he has about this
18 A. Yes. 18 case?
19 MR. POLLAND: I'm going to object. That 19 A. No, sir.
20 invades attorney/client privilege. 20 Q. All right. Do you know whether or not he was
21 MR. GRIGG: It doesn't either, if I'm 21 contacted on behalf of the Center by Mr. Aguirre?
22 just asking if you have the authority to sign these for 22 A. I do not know that.
23 him and represent the Center. 23 Q. You -- if that's what Mr. Aguirre has said,
24 MR. POLLAND: I disagree. I'm 24 you don't dispute that?
25 instructing him not to answer. 25 A. I don't know that. You'll have to take him at
26 28
1 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Who is the lawyer you've 1 his words.

2 retained for the Center, please? 2 Q. All right.
3 A. Mr. Polland. 3 A. I don't know that. I just hadn't heard that.
4 Q. All right. No. 12 is doctor -- excuse me, is 4 Q. All right. Let me put --
5 an Officer Taylor for the HPD. Can you tell us what 5 A. That would be speculating.
6 relevant knowledge he has? 6 Q. Let me rephrase my question a little bit.
7 A. I don't. And I should go back on No. 11, I've 7 A. Okay.
8 seen these two names because they did some kind of 8 Q. If -- and I represent to you he did --
9 affidavits about Aguirre. 9 Mr. Aguirre told the police that, representing the
10 Q. All right. 10 Center he went and contacted Mr. -- Lieutenant Rubio, do
11 A. So but I can't remember the details of those. 11 you know if that happened?
12 MR. GRIGG: Off the record. 12 A. I don't know that it happened but --
13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 13 Q. Go ahead.
14 2:30 p.m. 14 A. I don't know that it happened. I don't know
15 (Discussion off the record from 2:30 p.m. 15 that it didn't happen. It's been a lot of water under
16 to 2:30 p.m.) 16 the bridge. And, you know, all these things are going
17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at 17 on in the campaign. And could he have told me that,
18 2:30 p.m. 18 that he did, I don't know. I can't remember him doing
19 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) What about No. 13, doctor -- 19 that. I just don't remember.
20 excuse me, Officer Perez, do you know what he knows 20 Q. All right. And this is a little bit different
21 that's relevant to this case? 21 question. You don't have any evidence to dispute that
22 A. Let me go back. I didn't know there were 22 he went and contacted --
23 other officers. I saw -- I saw one affidavit, and that 23 A. None.
24 was from Officer Varela. 24 Q. -- Lieutenant Wayne Rubio, do you, sir?
25 And I think there was another affidavit 25 A. No.

29 31
1 Q. Okay. Do you know why the Attorney General's 1 A. Yes.

2 office, Lieutenant Rubio, refused to assist Mr. Aguirre? 2 Q. All right. How much was transferred all
3 A. No. I mean, I didn't know it occurred. I 3 together?
4 don't know. 4 A. I think somewhere in the order of $261,400.
5 Q. Now, help me understand, what assignment, what 5 Q. What's the second page?
6 did you pay Mr. Aguirre to do? 6 A. That's the -- some IRS form, I guess. I don't
7 A. Mr. Aguirre said that he was going to -- 7 know what it is. It says something to Mark Aguirre -- I
8 MR. POLLAND: Just a minute. I'm going 8 don't know what form is this.
9 to object as to form. 9 Q. Who filled out that form for you, do you know?
10 A. Do what? 10 A. The bookkeeper.
11 MR. POLLAND: I'm objecting to form. 11 Q. And who's your bookkeeper, please?
12 Just I have to do that. You can answer. 12 A. Our bookkeeper is Larry Hicks. Currently
13 THE WITNESS: Okay. What does that mean? 13 Larry Hicks. At that time, I had my controller cut
14 MR. POLLAND: It's a -- it preserves a 14 the -- cut this check.
15 legal error, potential legal error. 15 Q. Now, we asked, through your attorney,
16 A. Okay. So I simply -- he said he was going to 16 Mr. Polland, to -- for various records. And these are
17 investigate voter fraud. And he had -- he was going to 17 the only two records that he furnished us. Do you have
18 get a group of people that he knew that were 18 any more records at the Center with your relationship,
19 investigators and investigate voter fraud, and would I 19 whatever that might be, with Mark Aguirre?
20 fund it. 20 A. That's all that I have.
21 I said, "well, let me see what I can do." 21 Q. Do -- did you have any kind of written
22 And so I provided him with the funds to pay whatever 22 contract with him?
23 people he hired. He never worked for me. He was never 23 A. No, sir.
24 in our employ. And we paid his bills when he -- when he 24 Q. Did he give you information on what his
25 gave them to us. 25 investigation was showing?
30 32
1 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Did he give you any invoices? 1 A. Well, he would contact me periodically and say
2 A. I think he did because we paid him. Yeah. 2 we have got people looking around, seeing what's going
3 Q. And -- 3 on. You know, it was somewhat nebulous. But he told me
4 A. I'm sure he did because we paid him, you know, 4 they were keeping an eye -- they were keeping an eye on
5 certain amounts. We may have that. I don't know. 5 things. And he thought they had figured out how a voter
6 MR. POLLAND: We produced it. 6 fraud scheme was going to be carried out.
7 A. We produced it. So we got it. 7 Q. And tell me, best you remember, what he told
8 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Well, let me show you what you 8 you about this scheme.
9 produced here. 9 A. He -- he was under the impression or the
10 A. Okay. 10 belief that there were phony ballots that had been
11 MR. GRIGG: I didn't have enough copies. 11 pre-printed that were being filled out and were going to
12 All right. Back on the record. 12 be taken in to the center -- to the main center, NRG.
13 (Hotze Exhibit No. 3 was marked and is 13 Q. To the -- and you're not talking about your
14 made a part of this deposition.) 14 center --
15 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Can you identify those for us? 15 A. No, no.
16 And I represent to you they were furnished to us by your 16 Q. You're talking about the other center --
17 lawyer, Mr. Polland. 17 A. No, the center, the NRG. What is that?
18 A. Okay. 18 Q. And --
19 Q. And what is it, please? 19 A. I'm talking about the -- wherever the votes
20 A. Page 1, what is this? 20 were being collected.
21 Q. Yes. 21 Q. And is this the one that he believed the
22 A. Page 1 is just the amounts that were 22 Hispanic children were filling out?
23 transferred to Mark Aguirre investigators. 23 A. I don't know that. I don't know.
24 Q. And does it show the dates that they were 24 MR. POLLAND: Don't speculate.
25 transferred? 25 A. I don't know.

33 35
1 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Did he tell you anything about 1 So --

2 groups having Hispanic children filling out ballots so 2 Q. All right. I want you to tell us, as best you
3 that they couldn't be traced? 3 remember, all the information, you paid a quarter of a
4 A. He did mention that to me. And he mentioned 4 million dollars for --
5 that he thought there were multiple locations across the 5 A. I just told you.
6 county doing that. 6 Q. -- from Mr. Aguirre.
7 Q. Well, being that one of your purposes and one 7 A. That's it.
8 of the Center's purposes was to stop voter fraud, that 8 Q. That's it?
9 would be something of great interest to you, would it 9 A. That's it.
10 not? 10 Q. And I want to make sure now, and I may be
11 A. Well, from what he told me, it appeared that 11 repeating, but I want to make sure I understand what
12 he was on a hot trail. 12 you're saying. One, we've agreed you paid him in excess
13 Q. And what other information did he give you? 13 of a quarter of a million dollars?
14 A. None other than that. 14 A. Right.
15 Q. All right. So he went -- I mean, he told you 15 Q. Right. And you're telling us that you have no
16 that Hispanic children in several locations are filling 16 records of anything about his investigation?
17 out ballots to take to NRG? 17 A. I do have his affidavit before the Texas
18 A. That's what he felt like, there were several 18 Supreme Court.
19 locations where illegal ballots were being filled out. 19 Q. All right.
20 Q. Did you try to follow up on that, or get any 20 A. And I have -- we have Mark Stephens, who was
21 more information on it? 21 an investigator working under Aguirre, who had a large
22 A. Well, he was -- he's the investigator. He's 22 report, that multi-page report, documented all the
23 the former police officer. He knows what needs to be 23 illegal activity that was occurring down at NRG with
24 done. I left it in his hands. Whatever -- whatever 24 the -- with applications for ballot by mail that was
25 channels you need to go through to report this, do it. 25 sent to the Attorney General's office.
34 36
1 And so he went down -- he did go down, as 1 Q. And was that -- did he -- did Mark -- what's
2 I told you -- I was told by him he went down and he met 2 his last name?
3 with the DA's office. And apparently, he said he went 3 A. Aguirre.
4 to the Texas Attorney General's office. So I know he 4 Q. No.
5 was making contacts. 5 A. Mark Stephens.
6 Q. And -- 6 Q. Mark Stephens. All right. Did Mr. Stephens
7 A. And he had the information. I didn't have the 7 furnish you with a copy of that report?
8 information. I'm not -- you know, I'm running a -- I'm 8 A. We have a copy of that report somewhere.
9 running a major medical practice and everything, and 9 Q. All right.
10 trying to raising some money to help fund these guys to 10 A. I'm sure. If not, I can get it from Mark.
11 get the job done. 11 Q. All right. Because, I mean, the Center was
12 Q. And you had Mr. Aguirre file affidavits for 12 paying all this money.
13 you with the Supreme Court of Texas; correct? 13 A. Right.
14 A. He did file affidavits, as did Mr. Marler. 14 Q. And --
15 Q. And in a lawsuit you had filed? 15 A. Right.
16 A. Right. 16 Q. I'm sure you had him turn over that report.
17 Q. Okay. Well, what other information on voter 17 A. Right.
18 fraud did you receive as an individual or as president 18 Q. Any other information you got from
19 of the Center from Mr. Aguirre? 19 Mr. Aguirre, other than what you've just told us about?
20 A. That was -- that's what I received, kind of a 20 A. No.
21 periodic update on a weekly basis, what was going on. 21 Q. And did just you or the Center follow up on
22 You know, he felt like he was -- like he was always on a 22 any of this information?
23 hot trail, you know, of being able to find out where 23 A. The only follow-up was -- was simply to ask
24 these -- where this was being -- where this illegal 24 them, once they gather the information, get it to the
25 activity which he thought was occurring was happening. 25 proper authorities.

37 39
1 Q. And you, for your quarter of a million 1 Q. -- investigating for you? All right.
2 dollars, didn't ask them to get some information to you 2 A. They were investigating really under Aguirre's
3 so you could see what was going on? 3 authority. And Aguirre, of course, had his own -- he's
4 A. I told you, I got -- I got a very well done 4 got his own business.
5 document from Mark Stephens. 5 Q. And --
6 Q. Other than that? 6 A. So he hires these people. I don't know if he
7 A. Nothing, other than the affidavits that went 7 hires them on contract or employees. I don't know.
8 to the Texas Supreme Court. 8 Q. And you didn't check any of them out?
9 Q. Now, I'm going to show you another exhibit. 9 A. No.
10 MR. GRIGG: And what is this? 10 Q. Or see who they were?
11 THE REPORTER: Four. 11 A. I don't need -- that's not my line of work.
12 (Hotze Exhibit No. 4 was marked and is 12 Q. And, of course, you've over and over in press
13 made a part of this deposition.) 13 conferences and -- said that you, the Center, retained
14 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) And what is it entitled, 14 Aguirre and had 20-something investigators out looking
15 please? 15 for voter fraud?
16 A. Entitled Defendant Liberty Center for God and 16 A. Right.
17 Country's Objections and First Supplemental Responses to 17 Q. And you made no bones about it that, you know,
18 Plaintiff's Request for Productions. 18 you had retained Mr. Aguirre?
19 Q. And who is it respectfully submitted by? 19 A. Right.
20 A. Gary Polland. 20 Q. Right. And Mr. Aguirre certainly had
21 Q. Okay. And Gary Polland was the lawyer you 21 authority to tell people, "hey, you know, I'm working
22 retained to represent the Center -- 22 here on this for the Center," did he not?
23 A. Yes. 23 A. Well, I can't answer that question, what
24 Q. -- in this case? 24 authority he had to do that. He was -- he was being
25 A. Yes. 25 funded by me. And he hired his investigators, you know,
38 40
1 Q. And he had authority to file documents and 1 with the exception of two, I don't know any other
2 make representations to the court in your behalf, did he 2 investigators he hired. And I don't know how many --
3 not? 3 was it 20 or 21, or 25 or 19, I don't know.
4 A. Yes. He did. 4 Q. Well, I mean, you certainly made it public and
5 Q. All right. Now, I want you to turn to Page 2. 5 weren't trying to hide --
6 A. Okay. 6 A. Right. No. But he had --
7 Q. And I'm going to go through these, even though 7 Q. Wait, wait. Let me finish my question.
8 I think I know your answer, and it may be a little bit 8 A. Right.
9 repetitive, but I need to be sure. Fair enough? 9 Q. You certainly made it public over and over and
10 A. Yes, sir. 10 were not trying to hide that Mr. Aguirre was helping the
11 Q. All right. And the first one which is listed, 11 Center, working for the Center --
12 No. 5, it asked about background checks on Mr. Aguirre 12 A. Right.
13 or any of the investigators. And your response through 13 Q. -- whatever the term; correct?
14 your lawyer was there are none; is that true? 14 A. He was -- he was contracted or at least being
15 A. There are none. There were none. 15 paid on a contract basis by the Center to help fund his
16 Q. All right. And then it asks for documents 16 work.
17 identifying the investigators. And your answer is none 17 Q. Sure. And what you were saying probably, not
18 were located to date? 18 a term of art, but you were telling the public, to use
19 A. No. I don't have -- we don't have anything. 19 your words, that you retained Mr. Aguirre to look into
20 Q. And so -- 20 voter fraud?
21 A. That would be -- any private investigators 21 A. Well, if I said that, I mean, I may have said
22 were under the employ of Aguirre. 22 those exact words. But, in fact, the deal was, I was --
23 Q. And you've told us Mr. Aguirre and two others. 23 he came to me and requested funding, and I helped him
24 Do you know any others that were -- 24 fund.
25 A. I don't. 25 Q. Sure. All right. It doesn't have to be

41 43
1 exactly what his relationship was -- 1 talked about you had retained 20 investigators to go out
2 A. Right. 2 and investigate voter fraud in Harris County?
3 Q. -- you told the public over and over, press 3 A. I did. And remember, that's part hyperbole,
4 conference, whatever, that you had retained Mr. Aguirre 4 you know. I didn't retain them. Aguirre retained them.
5 to go investigate voter fraud? 5 Q. Okay.
6 A. Right. 6 A. But so, you know, if I'm going to be -- if I'm
7 Q. All right. And so it wouldn't be a surprise 7 on TV, I'm going to put the best foot forward. I've
8 to you if he was representing to people that, "hey, you 8 retained 20, but in reality, Mark Aguirre retained these
9 know, I'm looking into voter fraud for this Center"? 9 people. I didn't retain them.
10 A. Apparently, that's what he did. 10 Q. But the Center was --
11 Q. And you wouldn't object to that -- 11 A. Funding it.
12 MR. POLLAND: I'm going to object as to 12 Q. -- funding it?
13 form, and responsiveness. 13 A. Sure.
14 THE WITNESS: What now? 14 Q. You said that?
15 MR. POLLAND: It's rank speculation, 15 A. Right. Exactly.
16 unless you know. 16 Q. And so it wouldn't surprise you if Mark
17 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 17 Aguirre was telling people --
18 MR. POLLAND: I'm telling you not to 18 MR. POLLAND: I'll object as to form.
19 speculate. 19 A. I don't know. Sir, I don't know where you're
20 THE WITNESS: Okay. 20 going with this, but it's kind of repetitive. Help me
21 MR. POLLAND: This is not Aguirre's 21 understand the point you're trying to make, and I'll try
22 deposition. It's yours. If you know, great. 22 to agree with it.
23 A. I don't know that he -- what he was telling 23 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) All right. Mr. Aguirre told
24 people because I wasn't there. 24 the police, told other people --
25 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) But you, since you were 25 A. Right.
42 44
1 telling people representing the Center, you wouldn't 1 Q. -- that he was investigating voter fraud for
2 object to him telling people that, would you? 2 the Center. Does that surprise you?
3 A. Maybe I would. 3 A. Well, nothing would surprise me.
4 Q. You would? 4 Q. All right. Did that in any way -- would that
5 A. Yeah. 5 bother you that, you know, you're paying him money and
6 Q. Okay. Let me get this straight. You're 6 he said, "yeah, I'm working for the Center"? Anything
7 telling the press, you're telling everybody in press 7 wrong with him saying that?
8 conferences that Mark Aguirre and 20 other investigators 8 A. Well, it would -- it would be misrepresenting
9 out investigating voter fraud and that you've paid them 9 it, the fact that -- it gets down to your definition of
10 over a quarter million dollars. You said that in a 10 what does it mean working for the Center. Am I a
11 press conference, did you not? 11 contract laborer? Am I -- have I contracted? Am I -- a
12 A. I don't know that I did. I may have. I don't 12 private investigator is a private investigator.
13 have the -- I don't have it in front of me. But, you 13 Q. Right.
14 know, you looked at it, and if you can show me on paper 14 A. So he gets paid by whoever -- whoever seeks
15 I said that, I'll be glad to admit it. I don't have any 15 his services, but he's still a private individual and,
16 problem. 16 you know, you know, however he wants to frame his
17 I just -- I know the press conference was 17 relationship with me is -- I mean, he can do it. I
18 right here. We had one press conference about this, and 18 just -- I don't really have a comment about it.
19 that was after the situation in which Mr. Aguirre found 19 Q. All right. Let's go down to No. 8, asking
20 himself in legal problems. 20 about written instructions. And you say, "after
21 Q. Okay. And just like you told me before, you 21 diligent search, there are none"?
22 told the truth, didn't you? 22 A. We had no written instructions.
23 A. Right. 23 Q. All right.
24 Q. All right. And then you on like your 24 A. I had none for the investigators.
25 interview with Mr. Keyes, at least one of them, you 25 Q. I'm sorry?

45 47
1 A. I had none for -- I mean, you know, Liberty 1 Q. All right. Let me -- Mr. Polland is correct.
2 Center, we had no written instructions because we're not 2 I misread it. It does say Mr. Lopez.
3 investigators. 3 A. Right.
4 Q. All right. No. 9 asks about anything 4 MR. POLLAND: It happens. It happens.
5 regarding the -- any documents regarding the 5 MR. GRIGG: Huh?
6 surveillance of Mr. Lopez. 6 MR. POLLAND: It happens. That's being a
7 A. I have no -- I don't even -- didn't even know 7 lawyer.
8 the name Lopez until all this occurred. 8 MR. GRIGG: Can we take a short break?
9 Q. What about No. 10, instructions about 9 We've been going --
10 firearms, did you give any instructions -- 10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at
11 A. No, sir. 11 2:55 p.m.
12 Q. -- to him about firearms? 12 (Recess from 2:55 p.m. to 3:10 p.m.)
13 A. No, sir. 13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at
14 Q. Being an ex-police officer, I guess you 14 3:10 p.m.
15 assumed he would be armed? 15 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) If you would look at -- it's
16 MR. POLLAND: I'll object as to form. 16 Exhibit 4, is it not?
17 A. Sir, I didn't even -- I never thought about it 17 THE REPORTER: Yes.
18 one way or another. He's a private investigator, and he 18 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) I'm going to run through
19 knows his business. 19 these. And again, I think I know your answers, but I
20 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) All right. And you don't have 20 just want to be sure.
21 any objection to him following the Second Amendment, do 21 A. Okay.
22 you, sir? 22 Q. When we're looking at No. 11, No. 12, No. 13,
23 A. I'm sorry? 23 those are records related to Mr. David Lopez. And my
24 Q. You don't have any objection to him following 24 understanding is that you have no records related to
25 the Second Amendment, do you, sir? 25 Mr. Lopez?
46 48
1 MR. POLLAND: Irrelevant. 1 A. Correct.

2 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Now, here's something that 2 Q. Did you ever have any?
3 puzzles me after your testimony today: We asked for -- 3 A. Never. Never heard of Lopez before.
4 to produce a copy of reports received from any private 4 Q. And Mr. Aguirre never mentioned him to you?
5 investigator. And the answer that your lawyer gave us 5 A. Never did.
6 is that "after a diligent search, there are none." But 6 Q. Now, No. 15, it's asking about any
7 that's not accurate, is it, sir? 7 communications between you, the Center, and Mr. Aguirre.
8 MR. POLLAND: Which one are you on? 8 And I believe your answer is there are none?
9 A. No. 11. 9 A. No written communications.
10 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) No. 11. 10 Q. No written communication. 16 is about any
11 A. Well, I will say this: We do have -- 11 written instructions you gave Mr. Aguirre.
12 MR. POLLAND: Well, I'm going to object 12 A. No.
13 as to form. 13 Q. Are there any?
14 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Do you have any -- 14 A. There were no written instructions.
15 MR. POLLAND: This is regarding Lopez. 15 Q. Did you give him any oral instructions?
16 Read what it says. This is not on anything. This is 16 A. Yes. Do your best to investigate and find
17 on -- pertains to David Lopez. 17 voter fraud.
18 A. Okay. Tell me -- where is it saying that? 18 Q. Did -- No. 23, again, are -- I think I know
19 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) All right. 19 the answer, but any text messages or e-mails between you
20 MR. POLLAND: No. 11. 20 and Mr. Aguirre?
21 A. No. 11, please produce cover sheets that -- 21 A. I have none of those.
22 okay. From any retained on behalf of -- yeah. We have 22 Q. Now, 25, and I read it carefully this time,
23 none of -- 23 asked about any reports. And there are none between
24 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) All right. Let me -- 24 you -- or excuse me, I believe you said you don't have
25 A. We have nothing that pertains to Lopez. 25 any reports from Mr. Aguirre?

49 51
1 A. No reports from Mr. Aguirre. No written 1 A. So Mark -- if I remember correctly, Chuck

2 report. 2 Marler did have an affidavit on one of my cases to the
3 Q. And you've told us about all the oral reports 3 Supreme Court.
4 you had from him; is that true, sir? 4 Q. Do you know if he worked any on Mr. Lopez, or
5 A. Yes, sir. You know, yes, I told you about 5 investigation of Mr. Lopez?
6 that. 6 A. Sir, sir, I did not know about any
7 Q. Okay. Now, the report you have and gave to 7 investigation about Mr. Lopez at all.
8 the Attorney General is from Mark Stephens, P-H, I mean 8 Q. All right. And I'm asking up to the present
9 P-H -- 9 day, do you know if Mr. Marler had any role in
10 A. Right. 10 investigating David Lopez?
11 Q. S-T-E-P-H-E-N-S. 11 A. I have no -- I have no idea about that, sir.
12 A. That was unrelated to -- unrelated to 12 Q. All right. I'm going to ask you one sort of
13 David Lopez or to Mark Aguirre really at that point. 13 round-up question, and then hopefully I'll move on. All
14 That was something -- 14 of these records that we've asked you about, you know,
15 Q. All right. Let me ask you: Was he one of the 15 it says things like after a diligent search, there are
16 investigators that Mr. Aguirre hired? 16 none, and that kind of thing. That's at least what your
17 A. Yes. Obviously, he was because -- yeah, he 17 lawyer said.
18 was. 18 A. Right.
19 Q. Okay. And do you know or have his address or 19 Q. You're telling me there never were any?
20 any way to contact him? 20 A. Never were any.
21 A. Sure. 21 Q. Okay. And Mr. Aguirre would -- because I've
22 Q. And do you know it off the top of your head? 22 never seen any invoices from him to you. Were there
23 A. No, sir. I don't. 23 ever any?
24 Q. Would you give that information, you know, to 24 A. No, sir. As far as I know, there were none.
25 your lawyer, and he can -- 25 Q. He would just say, "hey, you owe me 219,000
50 52
1 A. Sure. 1 bucks," and you would say, "fine," and send him the
2 Q. -- you know, supplement it and get it to us? 2 money?
3 A. Sure. 3 A. Right.
4 Q. And then the -- 4 Q. You wouldn't ask him, say, "all right, now
5 A. That's a reasonable request, isn't it, Gary? 5 what am I getting for my 219,000 bucks"?
6 MR. POLLAND: I don't of any. If he had 6 A. Well, he told me he had investigators, and he
7 something to do with Lopez, yes. If he had nothing to 7 had to pay his investigators.
8 do with Lopez -- 8 Q. But as far --
9 A. He had nothing to do with Lopez, so anyway... 9 A. It wasn't for him personally, but he had -- it
10 MR. POLLAND: Well, then, that's a 10 went to them, and he had investigators, and he paid
11 question. The question would be how far does the issue 11 them.
12 of ballot fraud generically play. And if their theory 12 Q. And as far as what they were doing or what
13 is that it's an important issue, then it wouldn't be 13 they were finding out, you're telling us you don't know?
14 relevant. 14 A. He told me that -- I've told you already what
15 MR. GRIGG: And I'm asking Mr. Polland to 15 he had told me. So I don't have anything to add to
16 produce that. 16 that.
17 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Same thing with Mr. -- is it 17 Q. Okay. Let's go back to -- which exhibit is
18 Mailer? 18 the amended disclosures?
19 A. Marler. 19 MR. PINKERTON: Exhibit 2.
20 Q. Marler. And tell me about him or what 20 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) All right. Let me see if I
21 relationship, if any, you or the Center had with him. 21 can find mine now. All right. Now, Exhibit 2 we're
22 A. Well, Mr. Marler worked with Mark Aguirre, you 22 looking at, it says -- just to make sure we're looking
23 know. In fact, he and Mark were the ones that came to 23 at the same document, Defendant Liberty Center for God
24 me and said they were working on the voter fraud. 24 and Country's First Amended Initial Disclosures.
25 Q. Okay. 25 A. Yes, sir.

53 55
1 Q. Do you see that? 1 for.

2 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. Okay. But let me ask: Do you, sir?
3 Q. And you see right below that it was -- 3 A. I don't personally.
4 A. Submitted by Gary Polland. 4 Q. Huh?
5 Q. Gary Polland. And, again, he has the 5 A. I don't.
6 authority to file documents on your behalf in this case? 6 Q. All right. What about No. 5 here, Lobel
7 A. Yes, sir. 7 Financial Corporation, do you have any knowledge about
8 Q. Okay. Now, if you'll look on Page 2. 8 what relevant information they have?
9 A. Okay. 9 A. I don't. And what I could say is that -- and,
10 Q. All right. No. 5. And it's asking about 10 Gary, hey, Gary, Gary, Gary.
11 people that have knowledge relevant -- of relevant 11 MR. POLLAND: Yeah.
12 facts -- 12 A. Why don't I just say any information we know
13 A. Okay. 13 about this is attorney/client privilege.
14 Q. -- to this case, okay? Now, No. 2, Rafaile 14 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Well, you can't.
15 Rafaile, I guess it's pronounced, what knowledge does he 15 MR. POLLAND: You can't.
16 have that's relevant to this case? 16 THE WITNESS: Why can't I say that?
17 A. I don't know. 17 MR. POLLAND: No, you can't say that.
18 Q. Did Mr. Polland consult with you on any of 18 No, no, you can't say that.
19 these names? 19 THE WITNESS: And that way we just finish
20 A. Yes. 20 the whole deal.
21 MR. POLLAND: I'm going -- 21 MR. POLLAND: I understand. The purpose
22 A. No. 22 of knowledge of relevant facts is you have to list
23 MR. POLLAND: Do not answer. 23 everybody and anybody that had information --
24 A. Client privilege. 24 THE WITNESS: Right.
25 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) All right. Well, see because 25 MR. POLLAND: -- that could be relevant.
54 56
1 this is sort of bothering me that there's all these 1 THE WITNESS: Right.
2 names that your lawyer has represented have relevant 2 MR. POLLAND: If we do not list them and
3 knowledge and, again, this is another one you don't know 3 we go to trial, and let's say we call --
4 what knowledge he has? 4 THE WITNESS: You know exactly what he's
5 MR. POLLAND: I'm going to object to that 5 doing. He'd do what you do for your clients, he's
6 as to form. Look, and I'm going to make a statement. 6 listing the people that he thinks that we need to
7 Rafaile Rafaile was involved in the sale of David Lopez' 7 investigate.
8 box truck. This is something we discovered while doing 8 MR. POLLAND: Now, will they all testify,
9 our research. It has nothing to do with him. That's 9 I have no idea. But I do know that if I showed up and
10 all you need to know. 10 had something from AirTeam, right, that I want to
11 MR. GRIGG: I'm just asking, though -- 11 introduce, and I didn't list them --
12 MR. POLLAND: He don't know -- he don't 12 THE WITNESS: Right.
13 know nothing about that. 13 MR. POLLAND: -- this fine lawyer would
14 MR. GRIGG: Well, you know, we're finding 14 stand up there and say, "you did not list it in
15 that out, Mr. Polland. We're finding that out. 15 disclosure."
16 MR. POLLAND: Yeah. This is -- you asked 16 A. We can get down to the meat of the matters,
17 a question people who have knowledge of relevant facts. 17 but you're -- this is kind of bullshit. I mean, it just
18 So we list anyone and anybody who could have any 18 is.
19 knowledge, including people from your list that we put 19 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) If you think --
20 on here. 20 A. You'd do the same thing for your -- you'd do
21 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) All right. Do you know -- 21 the same thing for your client, you list all this off
22 let's look at No. 4, Custodian of records from AirTeam. 22 and say the same thing Gary is saying, if some attorney
23 Do you have any knowledge of why they may have anything 23 was pestering you about it.
24 relevant to this case? 24 I'm glad to go down the list and ask me
25 A. I yield to my attorney. That's what I pay him 25 every question you want to ask me. Still these are the

57 59
1 ones my attorney thinks we need to put down as potential 1 A. We do. And it's so complicated I can't -- I
2 witnesses. 2 can't comment on it right now, but we do.
3 Q. I don't think a lawyer doing his duty is 3 Q. Well, I got a lot of time.
4 bullshit. You may. I don't. 4 A. I don't have the information in front of me,
5 A. Well. 5 sir.
6 MR. POLLAND: That's what I was doing. 6 Q. All right. Let me tell you if you have
7 A. Excuse me. 7 information and you don't relay it to me --
8 MR. POLLAND: I was doing my duty. 8 A. Sure. Go to -- I'll send you all Aubrey
9 A. I'm not saying -- I'm not saying you doing 9 Taylor's, all his communications, all the documentation
10 your duty is bullshit -- 10 you want.
11 MR. POLLAND: I take that as a 11 MR. POLLAND: I think what he's telling
12 compliment. I'm doing it. 12 you is if we have that information, then we need to
13 A. I don't mean that. I just think its -- I 13 produce it. Not that he has to go look.
14 should have said BS. 14 THE WITNESS: It's out in the public.
15 MR. POLLAND: Thank you, Dicky. Thank 15 It's in the public.
16 you for that. So I guess it's stipulated I was doing my 16 MR. POLLAND: Yeah. It doesn't matter.
17 job. 17 It doesn't matter. If they're asking for it -- if I
18 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Now, one more question I'm 18 want all that stuff he's talking about --
19 going to ask -- 19 THE WITNESS: We'll send it to you.
20 A. Okay. 20 MR. POLLAND: -- we'll produce it.
21 Q. -- is about Casa Real Community LLC. Do you 21 MR. GRIGG: I'm asking for it.
22 have any knowledge of what relevant information they 22 MR. POLLAND: Okay.
23 would have? 23 A. Yeah. We'll give it to you.
24 A. No, sir. 24 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Any information that you have
25 Q. Well, let me ask you, because Mr. Polland has 25 that Rodney Ellis --
58 60
1 indicated that he thinks Rodney Ellis paid for some of 1 A. We will give it to you.
2 this stuff. Do you have any information, any evidence 2 Q. Or anybody on his behalf.
3 whatsoever that that's true? 3 A. We will get it to you.
4 A. That, I think, will come out in the trial. 4 Q. Or anybody you believe was trying to commit
5 Q. All right. Tell me what evidence you had that 5 voter fraud.
6 makes you think that will come out in the trial? 6 A. We'll give it to you.
7 A. I don't -- I'm really not going to comment on 7 Q. Paying for anything for Mr. Lopez, I want you
8 that. 8 to produce it.
9 Q. No. You're under oath. 9 A. For Mr. Lopez?
10 A. I'm not going to comment on it, period. 10 Q. Uh-huh.
11 Q. All right. Now, you know, I'm not going to 11 A. I'm sorry. None of that -- no. We're on two
12 argue with you. 12 things. None of that about Rodney Ellis, that I know
13 A. Right. We're just not going to comment. I'm 13 of, has anything -- I don't know who Lopez was until
14 not going to give away all the information. 14 this whole thing happened. So I've never heard of him
15 Q. Well -- 15 before.
16 A. We got the goods. We've got the goods, sir. 16 MR. POLLAND: Until the lawsuit.
17 Q. All right. 17 A. Until the lawsuit, right. That's the first
18 A. If you'd be -- why don't you go read Aubrey 18 time I ever heard of him. And then Rodney Ellis' deal
19 Taylor's -- why don't read Aubrey Taylor and -- you read 19 is unrelated to Lopez.
20 Aubrey Taylor's material? If you read his material, 20 MR. POLLAND: We don't know.
21 he's got it all documented. This is all -- it's all 21 THE WITNESS: Huh?
22 laid out. 22 MR. POLLAND: You don't know.
23 Q. Here's my question to you, and it's real 23 A. I don't know if it could be or not. I'll send
24 simple: Do you have any evidence that Rodney Ellis paid 24 you -- I'll send you -- look, if you want to go through
25 or purchased or helped pay for any of Mr. Lopez -- 25 all this, there's plenty of information out there that's

61 63
1 been published, investigative reporting on the voter 1 A. No, I don't. And we will find out.
2 fraud screen they run here in Harris County. It's 2 Q. All right. And I want you to produce that to
3 well-known. Everybody knows it. The people in the 3 me. Will you, sir?
4 community knows it. 4 MR. POLLAND: We produced --
5 MR. POLLAND: He's not from here, so he 5 A. I said we don't -- I don't know that, but we
6 wouldn't know. 6 will find out.
7 A. In the black community, they know it. I mean, 7 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) All right.
8 everybody knows how the game is played here. 8 A. At trial. Once we do a deposition, we'll find
9 MR. POLLAND: Right. So to clarify, 9 out.
10 Dicky -- 10 MR. POLLAND: We have produced everything
11 MR. GRIGG: So here is my question. 11 we have received in the deposition by written questions
12 MR. POLLAND: Let me, to clarify first, 12 we sent to those entities. We have one we have to file
13 you would like us to produce all the stuff that 13 a contempt on, because they refused to cooperate.
14 Dr. Hotze is talking about that he cites to Aubrey 14 MR. GRIGG: Have you gotten information
15 Taylor and his publication regarding ballot fraud in 15 from those?
16 Harris County; is that correct? 16 MR. POLLAND: Yeah. And whatever I have,
17 THE WITNESS: We can get that. 17 I've produced to Mr. Brazil.
18 MR. POLLAND: Is that right? Is that 18 MR. GRIGG: Has he?
19 right? 19 MR. POLLAND: He asked for them and we
20 MR. GRIGG: Yes. 20 sent them. AirTeam, we have got nothing. They have not
21 MR. POLLAND: Okay. We'll get it for 21 produced anything. But when we get it, we'll send it.
22 you. We'll get it for you. 22 We have to get the court to order it.
23 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Here, though, is my question 23 That's the one you all signed the release on. They
24 here today. 24 don't care. They still don't --
25 A. Okay. 25 MR. BRAZIL: I don't think the finance
62 64
1 Q. All right? Do you have any evidence that 1 company produced to you, have they? They objected
2 anybody involved with voter fraud paid anything for 2 through a lawyer.
3 Mr. Lopez at Lobel Finance, for his home, Casa Real 3 MR. POLLAND: Oh, yeah, that's the one
4 Community, or for any of his vehicles? 4 that you signed a release on, right.
5 A. I have no knowledge of that. My answer would 5 MR. BRAZIL: Yeah.
6 be no. 6 MR. POLLAND: And they still refused. We
7 Q. All right. Do you know why they are listed as 7 sent it with the release. They still refused. So we
8 having relevant facts to this Lopez case? Do you know, 8 will file a motion for contempt, see what happens.
9 sir? 9 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) To hopefully move on --
10 A. No, sir. 10 MR. POLLAND: Yes.
11 Q. And you just left that up to your attorney? 11 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) None of these financial people
12 A. I've got a great attorney. 12 that are listed by your lawyer you don't have any
13 Q. And he never discussed that with you? 13 evidence, as we sit here today, that anybody committing
14 A. He said he was going to list the people that 14 voter fraud was involved in paying anything off for
15 needed to be listed, and I said fine. 15 Mr. Lopez, do you, sir?
16 Q. But you, as you sit here today, as a 16 A. That was a rather drawn-out question. You're
17 representative -- 17 going to have to state that a little clearer.
18 A. Right. 18 Q. That was a poor question. That was a poor
19 Q. -- of the what is it? 19 question.
20 A. Liberty Center for God and Country. 20 A. Okay.
21 Q. Liberty Center for God and Country, as you sit 21 MR. POLLAND: Form.
22 here as their representative, you have no knowledge or 22 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) For the people, the companies
23 any evidence that anybody related to voter fraud paid 23 that are listed here, the real estate company, the two
24 anything to AirTeam, Lobel Financing or Casa Real 24 companies that financed vehicles for Mr. Lopez, the
25 Community for David Lopez? 25 people that financed his trailer --

65 67
1 A. Okay. 1 A. Right.
2 Q. -- you, as we sit here today, don't have any 2 Q. -- and Mr. Lopez, did he tell you anything
3 evidence that Rodney Ellis or anybody involved with 3 about it? Did Mr. Aguirre tell you anything about it?
4 voter fraud paid anything on these loans, do you, sir? 4 A. I'm trying to think if he did. And I don't
5 A. I don't. 5 believe he did, but I do believe through his attorney I
6 Q. All right. You -- and I'm not -- you stated 6 heard what had happened. So that would be hearsay, but
7 that you didn't know anything about Mr. Lopez until the 7 anyway. But I don't think -- I didn't talk to Aguirre
8 lawsuit was filed, but -- 8 personally after that had happened.
9 A. I may have heard his name, you know, when -- 9 Q. Okay. Did -- were you aware that Mr. Aguirre
10 Q. Sure. 10 believed that Mr. Lopez was responsible for 700,000
11 A. -- when this happened to Aguirre, I may have 11 bogus ballots?
12 seen his name in the paper. 12 A. Only what I read in the paper, sir.
13 Q. Well, and then, you know, you held a press 13 Q. Because I know you use that number 700,000.
14 conference after Mr. Aguirre -- 14 A. Right.
15 A. Right, right, right. So I knew -- 15 Q. In fact, when you were talking to Mr. Keyes?
16 Q. Yeah. 16 A. Yeah. We did. And there was a reason for
17 A. I would have known it at that time. 17 that because we were -- we had been told that they were
18 Q. Right. 18 going to carry Harris County by 700,000 votes.
19 A. Just from the press. 19 And so to do that, they were going to
20 THE REPORTER: I really need you guys to 20 have to manufacture those votes. So we knew somewhere,
21 quit interrupting each other. 21 that's where we were looking at trying to stop that.
22 MR. GRIGG: What now? 22 Q. Well, have you done anything to try to
23 THE REPORTER: Quit interrupting each 23 determine if Mr. Lopez was involved in a scheme to
24 other. 24 produce 700,000?
25 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am. 25 A. I haven't, no.
66 68
1 THE REPORTER: Please. 1 Q. Well, wouldn't that -- for a man that's paid a
2 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) And I apologize. We need 2 quarter of a million dollars to stop voter fraud,
3 to -- I'll try not to interrupt you -- 3 wouldn't that be something you were interested in?
4 A. Vice versa. 4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Try not to interrupt me. All right. Now, I'm 5 Q. Not at all?
6 going to ask you some questions about my client, David 6 A. No, no. Because the incident -- after the
7 Lopez. 7 incident occurred, and for whatever Officer Aguirre
8 A. Okay. 8 thought he was going to find, didn't find anything. So
9 Q. And if you don't know or don't have any 9 I had -- I mean, whatever -- he had a dry run. Let's
10 information -- 10 put it that way. Mark Aguirre just --
11 A. I'll just tell you. 11 Q. So --
12 Q. -- just tell me. But do you know what led 12 A. Whatever he was -- whatever his assessment was
13 Mr. Aguirre to suspect Mr. Lopez was involved in any 13 apparently was incorrect. So that's a dead -- that's a
14 voter fraud schemes? 14 dead -- I had no interest in pursuing -- I didn't know
15 A. No, sir. 15 about it to begin with, and I had no interest in
16 Q. Do you know anything about their surveillance 16 pursuing it after that.
17 that Mr. Aguirre did of Mr. Lopez? 17 Q. Would you like to take this opportunity to
18 A. No, sir. 18 apologize to David Lopez and his family?
19 Q. Do you have any information about various law 19 A. For what?
20 enforcement agencies Mr. Aguirre contacted concerning 20 Q. For what Mr. Aguirre did.
21 David Lopez? 21 A. Let Mr. Aguirre apologize.
22 A. No, sir. 22 Q. You don't think you have any responsibility in
23 Q. Now, did -- when this happened and 23 that?
24 Mr. Aguirre -- and we'll just call it an incident, when 24 A. I have no responsibility.
25 this incident happened between Mr. Aguirre -- 25 Q. Would it bother you that somebody you were

69 71
1 paying pulled a gun on an innocent man? Would that 1 information that Mr. Lopez was involved in voter fraud?
2 bother you? 2 A. I don't know who has that information, other
3 A. I don't really have a comment about that. 3 than Mark Aguirre.
4 Q. Okay. Now, after this incident -- we'll just 4 Q. Now, down here let's look at No. 7, and it's a
5 call it incident. 5 woman, Rey Melgarejo.
6 A. Right. 6 A. Right.
7 Q. Because -- with -- 7 Q. I know I'm not pronouncing -- and it says that
8 A. Right. 8 she has knowledge of Mr. Aguirre's activities. Do you
9 Q. Between Mr. Aguirre and Mr. Lopez, after you 9 know who she is?
10 found out about that, in press conferences you said that 10 A. Neighbor of plaintiff -- of Mr. Aguirre's
11 you believed the charges were bogus and purely 11 activities?
12 political. 12 Q. That's what your lawyer represented to the
13 A. Right. 13 court.
14 Q. Did you not? And you believe that? 14 A. Plaintiff.
15 A. Sure. 15 MR. PINKERTON: Objection. He's
16 Q. Still to this day? 16 misrepresenting what it says.
17 A. I do. 17 MR. POLLAND: That's not what it says.
18 Q. And you're aware now that the day -- you're 18 MR. PINKERTON: It says plaintiff
19 aware that the day after this happened, you pay 19 involved in plaintiff's activity.
20 $219,000? 20 MR. GRIGG: What did I say?
21 MR. POLLAND: I object as to form. I 21 MR. PINKERTON: Mr. Aguirre.
22 think we talked about that before. 22 MR. GRIGG: Then I misspoke. I misspoke.
23 A. So what does that mean? 23 You're correct. Thank you.
24 MR. POLLAND: You can still answer. 24 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) It says that this woman, who
25 THE WITNESS: Do what? 25 is a neighbor of the plaintiff, was involved in
70 72
1 MR. POLLAND: You can still answer. 1 plaintiff's activities. Do you have any evidence, first
2 THE WITNESS: Okay. 2 of all, who she is?
3 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Did you, sir -- 3 A. No, sir.
4 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. Do you have any evidence, as we sit here
5 Q. -- on the 20th pay $219,000 to Mark Aguirre? 5 today, that she's involved with plaintiff's activity?
6 A. Yes, sir. 6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. All right. And you're aware that was the day 7 Q. All right. Let's go to No. 9.
8 after this happened, aren't you, sir? 8 A. Okay.
9 A. It was. 9 Q. Are you familiar with Rodney Ellis?
10 Q. All right. Now, I want you to go back to 10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Exhibit 2. Those are the disclosures -- 11 Q. Here is what -- and you or your lawyer has set
12 A. Okay. 12 out a paragraph there about him.
13 Q. -- that your lawyer filed on your behalf. 13 A. Right.
14 A. Okay. 14 Q. But here is what I want to know: Your lawyer
15 Q. Okay? I want you to look at No. 3. 15 has represented to the court that Mr. Ellis was involved
16 A. Okay. 16 with plaintiff's activities. You see that?
17 Q. David Lopez. 17 A. Where it says involved with plaintiff's
18 A. Okay. 18 activities?
19 Q. As we sit here today, do you have any evidence 19 Q. Yes. That Mr. Ellis was. Do you see that?
20 whatsoever that Mr. Lopez was involved in any kind of 20 A. Yes.
21 voter fraud? 21 Q. What evidence do you have individually or as
22 A. I don't personally. 22 representative of the Center that Mr. Ellis in any way
23 Q. Do -- does the Center have any information? 23 was involved with David Lopez?
24 A. No. 24 A. I don't have that information.
25 Q. All right. Where is -- who has any 25 Q. You don't have any?

73 75
1 A. No, sir. 1 Q. I don't want to ask how old you are, because
2 Q. Now, back on Page 2, No. 8, Tyler James. 2 that's impolite. What year were you born?
3 A. Yes. 3 A. I'm 71. Born in 1950. July 5th, 1950.
4 Q. Are you familiar with Tyler James? 4 Q. And where did you grow up, please?
5 A. I know that he's -- works in some capacity, 5 A. Here in town, Houston.
6 he's been employed by Rodney Ellis in some capacity at 6 Q. Houston. All right. And --
7 some time. 7 A. About six blocks from here.
8 Q. All right. Do you know -- 8 Q. All right. Tell me about your educational
9 A. I understand that. I only know that 9 background, just briefly.
10 secondhand. 10 A. Went to Saint Thomas Catholic High School.
11 Q. All right. Do you know -- this statement your 11 Went in UT undergrad in Austin. Went to UT med school
12 lawyer made that he's involved with plaintiff's 12 in Houston. And did a surgery internship at St.
13 activities, do you, as we sit here today, have any 13 Joseph's Hospital. Then went into emergency room. Then
14 evidence that individually or as representative of the 14 entered health -- and then opened up my own practice,
15 Center, that Tyler James was involved with plaintiff's 15 went into allergy medicine. And then in '89 opened up
16 activities? 16 the Hotze Health & Wellness Center.
17 A. No, sir. 17 Q. And when did you obtain your medical license?
18 Q. All right. Do you know what Tyler James has 18 A. 1976.
19 to do with voter fraud? 19 Q. And it's still good and in effect?
20 A. If he works for Rodney Ellis. 20 A. Still good.
21 Q. All right. But do you have any evidence that 21 Q. Okay. Tell me a little bit about what your
22 he, other than works for Rodney Ellis. That he's 22 medical practice consists of today.
23 involved with anything on voter fraud? 23 A. Okay. Can I ask my lawyer a question?
24 A. Only that he works for Rodney Ellis. 24 Q. Yes.
25 Q. Do you know of anything he did for Rodney 25 A. What does this have to do with the case?
74 76
1 Ellis -- 1 MR. POLLAND: Well, they are allowed to

2 A. No, sir. 2 ask background questions.
3 Q. -- that is involved with voter fraud? All 3 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) I mean, you're not embarrassed
4 right. So as we sit here today, you individually, and 4 about it, are you?
5 you as representative of the Center, don't have any 5 A. No, I'm not. I just want -- I mean, I'm
6 evidence whatsoever that David Lopez was involved in 6 trying to speed things up.
7 voter fraud. Is that a true statement? 7 MR. POLLAND: It has nothing to do with
8 A. That's true. 8 the case but they are allowed to ask.
9 Q. Do you sort of consider that may be bearing 9 A. I have no problem. Here, let me tell you,
10 false witness? 10 Dicky, what I believe. I believe that you, Scott,
11 A. By who? 11 everybody needs to have a physician who has the
12 Q. By you. 12 know-how, wherewithal, and experience to coach them on a
13 A. For what? 13 path of health and wellness naturally without
14 Q. For your lawyer accusing David of voter fraud. 14 pharmaceutical drugs. So as you get older, you got
15 A. No. 15 energy, vitality, and you're enthusiastic about life.
16 MR. POLLAND: I'm going to object as -- 16 And so at the Hotze Health & Wellness
17 to form. 17 Center we have a health and wellness center that does
18 MR. PINKERTON: And I join in that 18 that. We help people get on a good, healthy eating
19 objection from an individual capacity. 19 lifestyle.
20 A. Yeah. I'm not -- 20 We replenish hormones. As women and men
21 MR. GRIGG: You don't want him bearing 21 age, our hormones decline. We replenish and balance
22 false witness as an individual either, huh? 22 them out. Testosterone, we'll put a tiger back in your
23 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) I'm going to ask you just a 23 tank, sir. Vitamins, minerals, and nutrients
24 few background questions, if I may. 24 are important. Trust me, it will. Look at old Scott,
25 A. Sure. 25 he's thinking, "where do I get that, man?"

77 79
1 MR. BRAZIL: I never have heard it called 1 Q. But briefly tell me, generally, about the
2 that. 2 times you've been sued related to politics.
3 MR. POLLAND: It's not a conflict. 3 A. Well, one case in particular when I went after
4 A. We treat for -- we treat for airborne and food 4 the Texas Medical Board for their illegal activities.
5 allergy. And then we put people on a good healthy 5 And I had private investigators put on the president of
6 eating program and an exercise program. The whole goal 6 the board and two of the board -- another one of the
7 is to get people on a path of health and wellness 7 board members to find out their illegal activities they
8 naturally. So that's what we do. 8 were involved in.
9 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) All right. 9 And I published information about this
10 A. And we have about -- and I own a -- so I own a 10 one doctor that was living in Center, Texas, down on
11 compounding pharmacy that makes natural bioidentical 11 the -- down on deep East Texas. He was running a -- he
12 hormones and have a vitamin health and wellness center. 12 was on the board of medicine, Texas Medical Board, and
13 And I have four -- four providers. And I have about 70 13 he's running a pill ring there for these women coming
14 on staff. 14 in, giving them drugs.
15 Q. And are you board certified in any specialty 15 So we got all that discovered, pushed
16 in medicine? 16 that, ended up driving him off the board. He resigned,
17 A. No. Not now. 17 the president of the board resigned, the executive
18 Q. You were, I guess? 18 director resigned.
19 A. Was. 19 We had a big hearing in Austin in 2007
20 Q. In? 20 called by Speaker Craddock. And we exposed them all,
21 A. I was a fellow in the American Academy of 21 and they ended up leaving. I was in the -- the guy, the
22 Otolaryngic Allergy years ago. 22 doc down in Centerville ended up suing me for
23 Q. Yeah. 23 defamation. And he lost that. He lost on appeal.
24 A. And I was a -- and I was the president of the 24 Q. Okay. Any other times you've been sued for
25 Pan-American Allergy Society. So I -- but no longer. I 25 politically-related issues?
78 80
1 run my business. I'm the CEO. 1 A. That's the only one I can remember. There may
2 Q. And -- 2 be others. I mean, I have so many -- you know, I wake
3 A. And I don't primarily practice medicine at 3 up in the morning and I ask my attorney, "who do you
4 all. 4 want me to sue today?"
5 Q. Okay. 5 Q. And can you give us an estimate of how many
6 A. Rarely. 6 lawsuits you've filed for political reasons?
7 Q. Have you ever been arrested? 7 A. Sir, probably in the last two years, somewhere
8 A. Have I ever been arrested? Let me think back. 8 ten, five to ten. I don't know, you know. It seems
9 MR. POLLAND: Well, actually, I object to 9 like -- as I say, I wake up every morning, and I ask my
10 form. It's not relevant. 10 attorney, he calls me up today and says, "okay, we got
11 A. No. But let me -- I had a DWI back in 1992, 11 to sue them today."
12 or something like that. 1994. 12 Q. All right. I may be through. I want to ask
13 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Anything else? 13 my lawyer if there's anything else I need to ask. And
14 A. Huh-uh. But it was no billed. 14 he has agreed to give me some questions.
15 Q. Okay. Any other time you've been arrested? 15 MR. POLLAND: Short break. Take a short
16 A. I'm trying to think. Been arrested for 16 break, Dicky.
17 anything. Traffic tickets. I mean, traffic tickets. 17 MR. GRIGG: May we take a short break?
18 Q. Now, I know you have filed a lot of lawsuits. 18 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at
19 A. Yes, sir. 19 3:46 p.m.
20 Q. But have you ever been sued? 20 (Recess from 3:46 p.m. to 3:57 p.m.)
21 A. I think I have, a couple of times. Probably 21 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record at
22 in some related to medicine, some related to politics. 22 3:57 p.m.
23 Q. Okay. And I'm not interested in any medical 23 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Are you ready, Dr. Hotze?
24 malpractice or anything. 24 A. I'm here, sir.
25 A. Right. 25 Q. You understand you're still under oath?

81 83
1 A. Yes, sir. 1 MR. POLLAND: Maybe decide to hire you as

2 Q. All right. In the documents that your lawyer 2 a doctor. The vitamins. We'll reserve our questions
3 filed, on No. 9. 3 until the time of trial.
4 A. Which one? 4 MR. PINKERTON: Us, too.
5 Q. No. 2, isn't it? 5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at
6 MR. POLLAND: The disclosures. 6 4:00 p.m.
7 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) The disclosures, it lists 9, 7
8 Rodney Ellis, and there's a paragraph under there. Can 8 (Deposition concluded at 4:00 p.m.)
9 you sort of give me a thumbnail sketch of what 9
10 involvement you believe Rodney Ellis is involved in 10
11 related to voter fraud? 11
12 A. Right here, it's written down in that 12
13 paragraph. Let me read it to you. 13
14 Q. All right. 14
15 A. "Rodney Ellis oversees and directs the ballot 15
16 harvesting operations of Gerald Womack and Dallas 16
17 Jones," whom we both know, I presume. 17
18 "The fraudulent applications of ballots 18
19 are then used to destroy legitimate voting rights of 19
20 millions of residents in Harris County, by placing them 20
21 in the voting system. 21
22 "These applications and ballots are 22
23 forged by his organization that he conceived, created 23
24 and manages. Ellis pushes and bullies candidates and 24
25 office holders in Harris County to follow his mandates 25
82 84
1 and directions or suffer because they lose the ability 1 CHANGES AND SIGNATURE FOR THE
DEPOSITION OF STEVEN F. HOTZE
2 to use his ballot harvesting organization and he will 2 TAKEN ON JANUARY 4, 2022
3 use it against them in primaries. 3 PAGE LINE CHANGE REASON
4 "Rodney Ellis is fully in control and 4 ____________________________________________________
5 aware of the cheating operation and the falsifying of 5 ____________________________________________________
6 records, ballot applications and the ballots 6 ____________________________________________________
7 themselves." 7 ____________________________________________________
8 Q. And the evidence to back this up is what 8 ____________________________________________________
9 you're going to furnish us? 9 ____________________________________________________
10 A. We'll send it, yeah. We'll send it to you. 10 ____________________________________________________
11 There's plenty of evidence out there. Which -- which 11 ____________________________________________________
12 you do well being -- if I can ask a question. And I'm 12 ____________________________________________________
13 not trying to interrogate you, but my understanding is 13 ____________________________________________________
14 your law firm represents the Democrat Party of Texas in 14 ____________________________________________________
15 some of their legal actions. 15 ____________________________________________________
16 Q. I have been retained, our firm has been 16 ____________________________________________________
17 retained -- 17 ____________________________________________________
18 A. Okay. 18 ____________________________________________________
19 Q. -- over the years off and on to represent the 19 ____________________________________________________
20 Democrat Party, yes. 20 ____________________________________________________
21 A. Sure. 21 ____________________________________________________
22 Q. All right. That's all the questions I have. 22 ____________________________________________________
23 A. So you can -- you can understand that this is 23 ____________________________________________________
24 a very great opportunity for us to meet face to face. 24 ____________________________________________________
25 Q. All right. Thank you, sir. 25 ____________________________________________________

85 87
1 I, STEVEN F. HOTZE, have read the 1 Mr. Dicky Grigg, Attorney for Plaintiff,
Mr. K. Scott Brazil, Attorney for Plaintiff
2 foregoing deposition and hereby affix my signature that 2 Mr. Gary Polland, Attorney for Defendant
Liberty Center for God and Country,
3 same is true and correct, except as noted above. 3 Mr. Kyle Pinkerton, Attorney for Defendant
Steven F. Hotze.
4 4
5 5 I further certify that I am neither counsel
6 6 for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties or
7 _________________________ 7 attorneys in the action in which this proceeding was
STEVEN F. HOTZE
8 8 taken, and further that I am not financially or
9 THE STATE OF ____________ ) 9 otherwise interested in the outcome of the action.
10 COUNTY OF _______________ ) 10 Further certification requirements pursuant to
11 Before me, _________________________, on 11 Rule 203 of TRCP will be certified to after they have
this day personally appeared STEVEN F. HOTZE, known to
12 me or proved to me under oath or through 12 occurred.
__________________ (description of identity card or
13 other document) to be the person whose name is 13 Certified to by me this 13th day of
subscribed to the foregoing instrument and acknowledged
14 to me that they executed the same for the purposes and 14 January, 2022.
consideration therein expressed.
15 15
Given under my hand and seal of office
16 this ______ day of ________________, 2022. 16
17
18 17 ___________________________________
_________________________ CYNTHIA C. MILLER, Texas CSR 8065
19 NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR 18 Certification Expiration 07/31/2023
THE STATE OF _______________
20 19 Advantage Reporting Service
Firm Registration No. 378
21 20 P.O. Box 169
Tomball, Texas 77377
22 21 281.376.9303
23 22
24 23
25 24
25
86
1 CAUSE NO. 2021-18494

2 DAVID LOPEZ ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF 1 FURTHER CERTIFICATION UNDER RULE 203 TRCP
) FOR THE DEPOSITION OF STEVEN F. HOTZE
3 VS. ) HARRIS COUNTY, T E X A S 2 TAKEN ON JANUARY 4, 2022
)
4 STEVEN F. HOTZE AND LIBERTY) 3 The deposition transcript was submitted on
CENTER FOR GOD AND COUNTRY ) 295TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT _____________________ to the witness or to the attorney
5 4 for the witness for examination, signature and return to
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION me by _________________;
6 DEPOSITION OF STEVEN F. HOTZE 5
JANUARY 4, 2022 The original deposition was___ was not___
7 6 returned to the deposition officer on _________________;
8 I, Cynthia C. Miller, Certified Shorthand 7 If returned, the attached Changes and Signature
page contains any changes and the reasons therefor;
9 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, hereby certify 8
The original deposition was sent to
10 to the following: 9 Mr. K. Scott Brazil, Custodial Attorney, on
______________________;
11 That the witness, STEVEN F. HOTZE, was duly 10
That $_______ is the deposition officer's
12 sworn by the officer and that the transcript of the oral 11 charges to the Plaintiff, for preparing the original
deposition transcript and any copies of exhibits;
13 deposition is a true record of the testimony given by 12
That the deposition was delivered in accordance
14 the witness; 13 with Rule 203.3, and that a copy of this certificate was
served on all parties shown herein and filed with the
15 That the amount of time used by each party at 14 Clerk.
16 the deposition is as follows: 15 Certified to by me this ____ day of _______,
2022.
17 Mr. Dicky Grigg - 1 hour 31 minutes, 16
Mr. K. Scott Brazil - None,
18 Mr. Gary Polland - None, 17
Mr. Kyle Pinkerton - None;
19
___________________________________
20 That pursuant to information given to the 18 CYNTHIA C. MILLER, Texas CSR 8065
Certification Expiration 07/31/2023
21 deposition officer at the time said testimony was taken, 19
Advantage Reporting Service
22 the following includes counsel for all parties of 20 Firm Registration No. 378
P.O. Box 169
23 record: 21 Tomball, Texas 77377
281.376.9303
24 22
25 23
24
25
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Steven Hotze's 2022 Deposition

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Steven F.

Cause No: 2021-18494

David Lopez Vs. Steven F. Hotze, et al

1 CAUSE NO. 2021-18494 1 INDEX

1 APPEARANCES 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Today's Tuesday,

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

1 A. Good. Thank you. 1 Q. Sure.

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

1 Steve F. Lopez in his individual capacity." 1 produced.

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

1 Woodfill -- 1 Q. Also, I believe you said that these people

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

1 happened. 1 marked back.

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

1 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Who is the lawyer you've 1 his words.

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

1 Q. Okay. Do you know why the Attorney General's 1 A. Yes.

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

1 Q. (By Mr. Grigg) Did he tell you anything about 1 So --

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

1 MR. POLLAND: Irrelevant. 1 A. Correct.

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

1 A. No reports from Mr. Aguirre. No written 1 A. So Mark -- if I remember correctly, Chuck

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

1 Q. Do you see that? 1 for.

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

1 Ellis -- 1 MR. POLLAND: Well, they are allowed to

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

1 A. Yes, sir. 1 MR. POLLAND: Maybe decide to hire you as

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

1 CAUSE NO. 2021-18494

ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICE - 281.376.9303

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