Prabhupāda: Oh, Mr. Murti, I'm very glad to see you. Come here in front.

How do you like

this movement? Huh?

Mr. Murti: [indistinct]

Prabhupāda: Thank you. [chuckling] So, any particular question?

Rukmiṇī: On the picture today that you gave Jadurāṇī, a picture of Śrī Viṣṇu, there is a foot
on the chest. We didn't know what that was. There was a little footprint.

Prabhupāda: There are some special marks on the chest of Viṣṇu by which in Vaikuṇṭha He
is known that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise, in Vaikuṇṭha,
everyone has got the same feature like Viṣṇu. Just like if President Johnson comes here as
a gentleman, you'll not..., nobody will recognize him whether he's president or not, unless
he shows his special mark. Is it not? All government officers, big officers, they have got
within the coat one, some mark. So far I know.

So similarly, in Vaikuṇṭha the inhabitants, they got svarūpa. Their form is exactly like
Viṣṇu. There is no difference. When the Viṣṇudūta came to take Ajāmila from the hands of
Yamadūta, they were four-handed, with śankha-cakra-gadā-padma, as Viṣṇu: the lotus
flower, this disc, and the club and the conchshell. There is no difference in the body.
Simply by that special mark, some special hair on the chest, and there is Bhṛgu, I mean to
say, sole, sole, a mark of the feet of Bhṛgu Muni. So by some special marks one can
recognize He is Viṣṇu.

Otherwise, from bodily features and from dress and from ornaments, there is no
distinction between Viṣṇu and His devotees in Vaikuṇṭha. They're all four-handed.
Svarūpa, sāyujya, sālokya, sārṣṭi. They have got equal, I mean to say, situation of
prosperity, wealthy, equally...,

[Phone rings]

...almost equally powerful.

So practically there is no difference between Viṣṇu and Viṣṇu-bhakta. In Kṛṣṇaloka also.

Only Kṛṣṇa is little blackish. Otherwise there is no... In the Kṛṣṇaloka they are two-handed,
and Viṣṇuloka they are four-handed. All the Vaikuṇṭhas, the residents, they are four-
handed. You want four hand or two hand? [laughter] Mr. Murti? What do you want? Four
hand?

Mr. Murti: Two hands more than Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In this universe only Brahmā has got four hands. Nobody within this
universe. And Viṣṇu also. In this brahmāṇḍa, in this universe, there is a planet where the
ocean is of milk. Here, just like salted water. There are many oceans: ocean of oil, ocean of
ghee, ocean of milk.

[devotees exclaim]

The ocean of oil, you have got experience in this planet. Within the earth you are getting
some... Your civilization depending..., your motorcar civilization is depending on that
ocean of oil. You are getting oil and lavishly spending it. Stock is supplied by God. Your
material advancement will be finished if the stock is not supplied by the Lord.

So these foolish men, they do not know. They think that "Without God we can live." Who
has created the ocean of petroleum within the earth? Is it possible for human being?
[laughter]

Devotee: Someone has said that the dhotī, the dhotī that the brahmacārīs wear, is the
dress that's worn in Vaikuṇṭha. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Just see Viṣṇu. He has no coat-pant. [chuckles] Here is Viṣṇu. Or Kṛṣṇa, He
has no dress. He is also bare body. Only Rādhārāṇī is covered. In India also, still, the
covering of the body is only for woman; but men, this, practically one dhotī is sufficient.
Sometimes laṅgoṭa, the underwear. Laṅgoṭa, underwear. What is that? [pause]

Nanda-kiśora: Swāmī? What does Nanda-kiśora mean?

Prabhupāda: Nanda-kiśora, kiśora means a boy.

Nanda-kiśora: Boy?

Prabhupāda: The transcendental boy of Nanda Mahārāja.

Devotees: Oh!

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Madhusūdana: How is the lotus a weapon? They're all weapons. All the symbols in Viṣṇu's
hand are..., all the symbols in Viṣṇu's hand are weapons. How is the lotus a weapon?

Prabhupāda: Lotus is blessing. And that disc and club is for punishing. Viṣṇu has to see two
ways, because He's the Lord. So, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ
vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8].

[In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the
principles of religion, I advent Myself millennium after millennium.]
Just like the state. State is meant for punishing the criminals and giving protection to the
law-abiding citizen. Wherefrom this idea is taken? It is taken from Viṣṇu, everything,
because He is the supreme maintainer. So everything is required for maintaining. So this
gada, the club, and the disc is for punishing the disobedient, the demons, or those who
are harassing devotees. To punish them, the viṣṇu-cakra is there.

Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, he was harassed by Durvāsā Muni, and viṣṇu-cakra punished
him sufficiently. Mahārāja Durvāsā... Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was a great king, but a great
devotee at the same time. Because he was kṣatriya and householder, Durvāsā Muni, he
was envious. Durvāsā Muni was brāhmaṇa and a great yogī.

So he could not tolerate that a householder king... King is supposed to be dealing in

politics, economics. Therefore, according to social position, he is lesser than the
brāhmaṇa, because they are simply engaged in the matter of transcendental advancement
of life. But a devotee is above the brāhmaṇas. That is the position of devotee.

Here, the highest qualitative position is to be situated in the modes of goodness or to

acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa, in this material world. Truthfulness, controlling the
senses, controlling the mind, simplicity and knowledge, faith in God—there are so many
qualifications which makes a person as recognized brāhmaṇa. But a devotee, never mind
whether he's brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla, he automatically develop all these qualities. Yasyāsti
bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā [SB 5.18.12].

[All the demigods and their exalted qualities, such as religion, knowledge and
renunciation, become manifest in the body of one who has developed unalloyed devotion
for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vāsudeva. On the other hand, a person devoid of
devotional service and engaged in material activities has no good qualities. Even if he is
adept at the practice of mystic yoga or the honest endeavor of maintaining his family and
relatives, he must be driven by his own mental speculations and must engage in the
service of the Lord's external energy. How can there be any good qualities in such a man?]

Anyone who has unflinching devotional faith in God, he has all the good qualities.

I've several times narrated the story of that hunter. He was animal killer, and he used to
enjoy by killing the animal half. But when he became a devotee, he was not prepared to
kill even an ant. Who taught him? Nobody taught him, but he was simply chanting Hare
Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So if you actually making progress in devotional service, you are
constantly in touch with the purest.

Kṛṣṇa is the purest. Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhama pavitraṁ
paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12].

[Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and
purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God,
transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all-pervading beauty. All the
great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa proclaim this of You, and now You
Yourself are declaring it to me.]

"You are the paraṁ brahma, Supreme Brahman." Brahman..., every living entity is
Brahman, but He is paraṁ brahma, the leader of the Brahman. Just like the president is
the first citizen of the state, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is also a living entity, but supreme living entity,
just like the first citizen. So similarly, every living entity is Brahman, but paraṁ brahma is
one. That is Kṛṣṇa.

And therefore in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is confirmed, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ krsnaḥ [Bs. 5.1].

[Kṛṣṇa who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful
spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all
causes.]

Kṛṣṇa is... Everyone īśvara, more or less, controller. Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, Indra, Varuṇa,
Vāyu, Candra, Sūrya, there are so many. They're all demigods, say, almost God. But they
are not Supreme God. Supreme God is one.

Sometimes people who do not know the purpose of Vedas, they say, "The Hindus are
worshiper of many gods." That is nonsense. Actually those who are followers of Vedas,
they worship Kṛṣṇa, only Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ [Ṛg Veda 1.22.20].

["The lotus feet of Lord Viṣṇu are the supreme objective of all the demigods. These lotus
feet of the Lord are as enlightening as the sun in the sky."]

Ṛg mantra. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. And in the Bhagavad-gītā
it is said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15].

[I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and

forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known; indeed I am the compiler of Vedānta,
and I am the knower of the Vedas.]

What is the purpose of Vedas? To understand Kṛṣṇa. One who does not understand Kṛṣṇa,
his Vedānta philosophy is nonsense. However you may advertise that "I am Vedāntist," is a
pakkā nonsense [chuckles], because he has not attained the perfection of Vedic
knowledge.

The perfection of Vedic knowledge is to know Kṛṣṇa, and that is also confirmed in the
Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]: after many, many births.

[After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me,
knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare.]
Jñānavān. Jñānavān means Vedāntist. Not... They have made it, that Vedāntist...
Vedāntist..., Vaiṣṇavas, they are also Vedāntist, but it has become a common sense, a
common affair that the impersonalists, they are called Vedāntists. Because, due to
Śaṅkarācārya's propaganda, they have made their position as Vedāntists. But common
men, they do not know that the Vaiṣṇavas are the best Vedāntists.

We shall discuss Vedānta here also. Vedānta... In Rāmānuja-bhāṣya there is... Perhaps you
know, in your country, there is Rāmānuja-bhāṣya Vedānta. Madhvācārya, he has also
written Vedānta-bhāṣya, not only Śaṅkarācārya. But because the Vaiṣṇavas, they know
bhāṣyam brahma-sūtrāṇām1: the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the actual explanation of
Vedānta. So therefore they take more interest in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, because that is the
actual explanation of Vedānta.

Just like in the Vedānta-sūtra, the..., what is Brahman, Absolute Truth, athāto brahma
jijñāsā, the inquiry is, "What is Brahman, Absolute Truth?" The Vedānta-sūtra answers...
The Vedānta-sūtra is made like that, questions and answers like that. So answer is
janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]

[O my Lord, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, son of Vasudeva, O all-pervading Personality of Godhead, I offer my

respectful obeisances unto You. I meditate upon Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa because He is the Absolute
Truth and the primeval cause of all causes of the creation, sustenance and destruction of
the manifested universes. He is directly and indirectly conscious of all manifestations, and
He is independent because there is no other cause beyond Him. It is He only who first
imparted the Vedic knowledge unto the heart of Brahmājī, the original living being. By Him
even the great sages and demigods are placed into illusion, as one is bewildered by the
illusory representations of water seen in fire, or land seen on water. Only because of Him
do the material universes, temporarily manifested by the reactions of the three modes of
nature, appear factual, although they are unreal. I therefore meditate upon Him, Lord Śrī
Kṛṣṇa, who is eternally existent in the transcendental abode, which is forever free from
the illusory representations of the material world. I meditate upon Him, for He is the
Absolute Truth.]

"The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything is emanating." He is the ultimate
fountainhead of everything. Just now we tried to explain that the state functions
protecting the good citizen and punishing the criminals. That should be the state business.
Wherefrom this idea came? The law and... What is called? Law and order department, or
what is that?

Devotee: Law and order.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Wherefrom the idea came to the human society unless it is there in the
Absolute? How the idea comes? Therefore that law and order is Viṣṇu. Janmādy asya
yataḥ. The idea of law and order came from Viṣṇu. How nicely explained. Janmādy asya. In
two words, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Janma means creation, and ādi, ādi means first
janma, then sthiti. Sthiti means staying, maintenance. And then dissolution. So three
things. Yataḥ, from where these three things are happening.

That means this world is being created from that source, it is being maintained by that
source, and when it is annihilated it rests in that energy, the whole energy. Pralayaṁ yānti
māmikam, Bhagavad-gītā. When everything is dissolved, the energy is absorbed by the
energetic. So that is Absolute Truth.

So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam explains that Absolute Truth. Janmādy asya yata anvayād itarataś
ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is simply said that "The Absolute Truth
is that which is the fountainhead of everything." Now if fountainhead of everything, then
what the Absolute Truth's nature shall be like? That is explained in the Śrīmad-
Bhāgavatam.

The first thing is that janmādy asya yataḥ. The factor, the Absolute Truth from which
everything is emanating, so that emanation includes indirect and direct manifestation.
What is that indirect and direct manifestation? The direct manifestation is the spiritual
world, and the indirect manifestation is this material world. Indirect manifestation means
it is simply a shadow of the spiritual world.

Just like in the Bible also it is said the man is made after God. So you have got two hands,
one head, two leg. So the mental speculation is said that these devotees, they create God
according to their own feature. Because I am two-handed, and therefore I create God with
two hands, Kṛṣṇa—but actually, the fact is not that. Actually, because Kṛṣṇa has got two
hand and we have got a imitation body of Kṛṣṇa, therefore we have got two hand.

Because this is imitation. That we know everything, everyone. This body will not stay.
Therefore it has got janma. Janma means birth or creation at a certain period, and it stays,
say, for fifty years or hundred years. Then dissolved, dissolution. Therefore it is imitation.
Just like if you create a doll, clay, clay doll, very nice, beautiful girl. But it will... It is
imitation. It is shadow of the real beautiful girl. It has... It is created at some time and...

So reality is there in the spiritual world. Therefore it is called janmādy asya yataḥ. The idea
comes from there. But the impersonalists, due to their intelligence being very meager,
they think that the Absolute Truth is without any variety: impersonal or void. They think
that varieties are only in the material world. But actually, real varieties are there in the
spiritual world. It is only reflection, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhva mūlam
adhah-śākham. Adhah-śākham. Aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam [Bg. 15.1].

[The Blessed Lord said: There is a banyan tree which has its roots upward and its branches
down and whose leaves are the Vedic hymns. One who knows this tree is the knower of
the Vedas.]
Aśvattha... This material creation, material manifestation is compared with a banyan tree
whose root is upward. And that I have explained several times, how the tree can be
upwards root. That means it is reflection. Just like you stand on the riverside, the tree will
be reflected on the river, on the water, as obverted. That means that is reflection. As soon
as we say that "This is a tree, the root of which is up," that means it is reflection.

The Māyāvādī philosopher, they do not take account of the mathematical calculation, 380
degree. They are taking account of... Three hundred and sixty degree, the whole circle.
They are taking account only 180 degree. And other 180 degree they're making void. But
actually, the whole point is 360 degree. That is geomatical calculation. If you simply know
180 degree, then the other 180 degree is unknown to you.

So real life, real variety, real beauty, real knowledge, everything in reality is there in the
spiritual world. It is only reflection. Therefore Bhāgavata explains that janmādy asya yataḥ
anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The Supreme Absolute Truth is cognizant,
abhijñaḥ; cognizant and svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. In this way, the explanation of
Brahma-sūtra is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yad vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yasmin

paramahaṁsam ekaṁ paraṁ jñānam jñeyate. The knowledge of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is to
be understood by the paramahaṁsa, the highest perfected man, paramahaṁsa. It is not
ordinary thing.

Devotee: Swāmījī, if all things here are a reflection of what is perfect in the spiritual world,
then shouldn't hate and frustration and despair and prejudice also appear in the spiritual
world?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Does it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Then isn't that... Aren't they bad?

Prabhupāda: But that frustration has no disappointment. [laughter] That is the beauty.
Just like Lord Caitanya is manifesting that spiritual frustration: "O Kṛṣṇa, I could not see
You." He's jumping on the sea in frustration. But that frustration is the highest perfection
of love. Yes. Everything is there—but without inebriety. You are very intelligent boy. I
thank you. Yes. Yes. There is frustration, but not this frustration. Yes. That frustration, I
mean to say, enriches one's eagerness of love for Kṛṣṇa. Everything is there, but without
inebriety. Everything is there. Yes.
Now see Viṣṇu? Of course, in Vaikuṇṭha-jagat there is no violence. But Viṣṇu is taking the
symbol of violence. Otherwise, what is the meaning of this disc and club? So when He
wants to be violent, He comes here as nṛsiṁha-mūrti. [laughter] And He sends some of His
devotees to play violence. That is Hiraṇyakaśipu. Because there the devotees are so much
in accord with Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu that there is no question of disagreement. But violence is
when this disagreement, atheist.

Therefore sometimes a devotee is deputed in this world to play as atheist, and Kṛṣṇa
comes to kill him, to teach these people that "If you become atheist, then here is disc and
club for you." But it is not possible to be displayed in the Vaikuṇṭha. But the... Otherwise,
if there is no the propensity of violence... Just like there is sometimes mock fight. A father
is fighting in mock with the small child, and he has become defeated. But there is
pleasure. So ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt [Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12].

[By nature, the Supreme Lord is blissful.]

The Lord is joyful. So there is joy in fighting also sometimes.

So your question that everything is there, that is a fact. Everything is there. Otherwise if
everything is not there, they cannot be manifested here, because it is reflection. Just like
in... Of course, this discovery is by the Vaiṣṇava, Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava. Just like the love
between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, it is called parakīya. They are not married husband and wife.
But Rādhārāṇī appears to be wife of some other gentleman. But Kṛṣṇa, from childhood,
They were friends. So Radhārāṇī could not forget Kṛṣṇa. She used to come to Kṛṣṇa and
stand like that. That's all. And He was playing. Kiśora-Kiśorī, They were boy and girl. But
there is no inebriety.

Just like here the boy and girls mix and there are so many abominable things, distressful,
which is binding their material bondage. So that friendship between boy and girl is there,
but without inebriety. Kṛṣṇa had so many gopīs, girlfriend, but there was no contraceptive
pills. [laughter] That is the beauty. Here, the so-called love is lust. And there, that is the
highest.

The same thing: obverted, perverted reflection. Just like in the original tree the topmost
part has come down to the down. Similarly, in the spiritual world the highest, topmost
level of love, parakīya... Parakīya means love not by marriage life; by friendship. That is
there. But there is no such inebriety. It is pure.

So perverted means the topmost thing has come down to the lowest. Here, this parakīya,
loving other's wife or other's husband, is most abominable, adultery—not allowed by
society, not allowed by the state. But tendency is there. Even one is married, he wants to
love another's wife. Or if the girl married [s]he wants to love another husband. Why? That
is there. But without inebriety. That is the beauty.
So everything is there, but here, that thing is reflected, pervertedly. Therefore
misunderstood. There is so many other corollaries. You see? But you must know
everything, that without being in the Absolute Truth there cannot be relative
manifestation. This world is relative manifestation. So these things are not to be
understood in the beginning, but as the questions came, we discussed something.

But you must know, as the Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ. Everything is
emanated from that Absolute Truth. That is the fountainhead of everything. We cannot
manufacture anything. It is not possible. But this is shadow and that is reality. And in the
shadow... Just like photograph. You find that everything in detail of your beautiful face in
the photograph, but that is not reality. That's all.

So you'll find everything in details, all... Or you can understand actual photograph, actual
idea, actual notion of the spiritual world by scrutinizingly studying this material world. The
impersonalists, they think that in the material varieties there are so many abominable
inebrieties, therefore in the spiritual world all these things should be minus, void. That is
their material calculation. They cannot think that in the spiritual world also there is love.
Because here, in this world, the so-called love or lust is frustrated and followed by so
many calamities that therefore they cannot conceive that in the spiritual world also there
is love.

Their idea, in one sense, is right, that how these nonsensical things can exist in the
spiritual world? Therefore they make it altogether minus. No variety. Impersonal. That is
less intelligence. They cannot understand that photograph is the reflection of the actual
person. There is everything in detail. A movie. Actually, the same man is laughing, walking,
dress, everything, but it is all false. That they cannot understand. Therefore the Vaiṣṇavas
say they are less intelligent.

The real understanding should be that if in the real person all these features are not
present, how they can be reflected in the photograph? The Māyāvādī says, brahma
satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Brahman, the Absolute Truth, is real truth, and this world is mithyā.
Then mithyā means it is a reflection, or shadow. Mithyā does not mean that it has no
existence. The shadow is also existence. Therefore Vaiṣṇava philosophers say that mithyā
means temporary.

Now you have got this body. This is temporary. That's the real understanding. And if I say
it is mithyā, then if I kill you, then why I am punished? I can say, "Oh, it is mithyā, it is false.
So what is their fault?" No. It is not mithyā. It is temporary. Not mithyā. Mithyā, how can it
be? Because it is reflection of the reality, therefore it cannot be mithyā. Then the reality
becomes mithyā. Mithyā means not fact. The real explanation is that this is shadow,
shadow, but the reality is in the spiritual world, and that is indicated in the Vedānta-sūtra,
janmādy asya yataḥ, the fountainhead of all emanation. That is Absolute Truth.

Advaita: Swāmījī, last night our window was broken. Was that māyā striking at us?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Advaita: Last night my window was broken. Was that māyā striking?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Advaita: Kids broke the window?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyā is always striking. Why do you take only a window? [chuckles]
Why do you compact māyā in the window? He is without window, within the window.
Māyā is not only, I mean to say, limited to a certain extent. The whole world is māyā.
Jagan mithyā. The whole universe is māyā. Only that part is not māyā where the chanting
Hare Kṛṣṇa is there.

Devotees: Haribol. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: As soon as there was some slacking in Hare Kṛṣṇa, the māyā struck. [laughs]
Yes. Yes.

Govinda dāsī: Swāmījī?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are asking at the last moment. You are very much careful about
time.

Govinda dāsī: Oh. I didn't know.

Prabhupāda: No, you ask me.

Govinda dāsī: No, I won't ask.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, you ask. Yes. Yes.

Govinda dāsī: Could you describe Kṛṣṇa's pastimes as cowboy whenever He goes out in
the morning with the cowherds boys?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can... Because... Have you seen how the... You have no experience
here in your country. Have you got any experience? But in India we have got experience
how in the morning the cowboy takes some food from the mother, and with the cows he
goes to the field. The cows are let loose on the grazing ground, they are enjoying, and this
cowboy is sometimes singing.

The flute, Kṛṣṇa's flute is because He is cowboy. The cowboys still play in that flute. In
India you'll find. Because the cows are let... They are doing their own work, and what this
boy will do? They are playing. There are many cowherds boys, they are playing—
sometimes playing on flutes, sometimes sporting, sometimes eating.

So Kṛṣṇa was exactly doing like that. All the cowboy friend went with Him. Kṛṣṇa was, of
course, a very rich man's son. His father was very rich. So He used to take with Him very
nice foodstuff, lugdoo, kachorī. And other, His poor friends, they were taking capātīs, dry
capātīs. [laughs] So they were enjoying, dividing: "Your food, my food, his food."

And sometimes there was some trouble in the forest, because Kamsa was after Kṛṣṇa to
kill Him. He was sending his assistants. So some asura would come, Bakāsura, Aghāsura,
and Kṛṣṇa would kill. And the boys would return and narrate the story to their mother:
"Oh, my dear mother! Such and such thing happened and Kṛṣṇa killed it! Very..."
[laughter] The mother will, "Oh, yes, our Kṛṣṇa is very wonderful!" [laughter]

So Kṛṣṇa was their enjoyment. That's all. The mother is speaking of Kṛṣṇa, the boy is
speaking of Kṛṣṇa. So therefore they did not know anything but Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. Whenever
there is some trouble, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa." When there is fire, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa." That is the beauty of
Vṛndāvana. Their mind is absorbed in Kṛṣṇa. Not through philosophy, not through
understanding, but natural love: "Kṛṣṇa is our village boy, our relative, our friend, our
lover, our master." Some way or other, Kṛṣṇa. That is the beauty.

Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing the playing of the boys:

itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtya

dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena
māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa
sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ

[SB 10.12.11]

[All the boys would be differently engaged. Some boys blew their flutes, and others blew
bugles made of horn. Some imitated the buzzing of the bumblebees, and others imitated
the voice of the cuckoo. Some boys imitated flying birds by running after the birds'
shadows on the ground, some imitated the beautiful movements and attractive postures
of the swans, some sat down with the ducks, sitting silently, and others imitated the
dancing of the peacocks. Some boys attracted young monkeys in the trees, some jumped
into the trees, imitating the monkeys, some made faces as the monkeys were accustomed
to do, and others jumped from one branch to another. Some boys went to the waterfalls
and crossed over the river, jumping with the frogs, and when they saw their own
reflections on the water they would laugh. They would also condemn the sounds of their
own echoes. In this way, all the cowherd boys used to play with Kṛṣṇa, who is the source
of the Brahman effulgence for jñānīs desiring to merge into that effulgence, who is the
Supreme Personality of Godhead for devotees who have accepted eternal servitorship,
and who for ordinary persons is but another ordinary child. The cowherd boys, having
accumulated the results of pious activities for many lives, were able to associate in this
way with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. How can one explain their great fortune?]

"Oh, these boys playing with Kṛṣṇa, they have attained this position, oh, after, I mean to
say, accumulating many, many births' pious activities." Kṛta-puṇya puñjāḥ. Just like a man
collects dollar, dollar, dollar, dollar, dollar, and one time he amasses money, say, millions
of dollars. Similarly, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing that these boys who are playing with
Kṛṣṇa, they have amassed their pious activities for millions and billions of births. Because
with whom they are playing? They're playing, itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtya. Satāṁ. The
stalwart philosophers who are after brahma-sukha, brāhmaṇanda. So that brahmaṇanda
is here, Kṛṣṇa.

And dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para daivatena. And for the devotees, He is the Supreme Lord. And
māyāsritanam nara-dārakeṇa: those who are covered in māyā, for them He is ordinary
human boy. And with Him these boys are playing. They have amassed pious activities of
many, many millions of births. Otherwise it was not possible. So they do not know Kṛṣṇa is
God. They do not know. But their affection for Kṛṣṇa is so great and nice that it is
inexplicable. They were playing; Kṛṣṇa is defeated: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has to take the friend on His
shoulder, yes, because You are defeated." So Kṛṣṇa is accepting, "Yes, come on My
shoulder."

So this kṛṣṇa-līlā, that also one who tries to understand and understands, they are also like
those boys who have amassed pious activities of many, many births. It is not ordinary
thing. Yes. And māyāśritānāṁ nara dārakeṇa: those who are under the clutches of māyā,
they will think these Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, "What is this? What is this? Kṛṣṇa conscious
persons, they are enjoying about Kṛṣṇa's going to the field with some cows?" Yes.

Just like one of our student, that Raṇacora, he asked me, "Swāmījī, how is that God has
become a cowherd boy?" Yes. Because ordinary people, they are thinking, "God must be
so great, so great, great," that they cannot conceive. And that great personality, how He
becomes a cowherd boy playing with cowherd boys? Yes. Brahmā also became
astonished, and therefore he came to check, "Whether He is my Lord or not?" [laughter]
Yes. Bewildered. Muhyanti yatra sūrayaḥ, the Bhāgavata says therefore. Even the great
personalities like Brahmā, they are also bewildered to understand the personality.

He..., Brahmā also heard that "At Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa has appeared, and He is acting as a
cowherd boy." He was also astonished. "Oh, my Lord? He has become a cowherd boy?" So
he came to check. He, I mean to say, took away all the cowherd boys and cows and
everything. And after a few seconds he came, he said, "Kṛṣṇa is playing in the same way."

And although the, I mean, stolen cowherd boys and cows they, by the, I mean to say,
energy of māyā, by influence of Brahmā, they were kept in a secret cave. They were
sleeping. But Kṛṣṇa is playing. That means He has manifested again with the cowherd boys
and cows. Then he was convinced, "Yes, He is my Lord." Then Brahma-stava is there.
Ānanda cinmaya rasa pratibhāvitābhis tābhirya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37].

[I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, residing in His own realm, Goloka, with Rādhā,
resembling His own spiritual figure, the embodiment of the ecstatic potency possessed of
the sixty-four artistic activities, in the company of Her confidantes [sakhīs], embodiments
of the extensions of Her bodily form, permeated and vitalized by His ever-blissful spiritual
rasa.]

So Kṛṣṇa can expand in many, many thousand times. What Brahmā will do by stealing
His...? No, that is not possible. So Brahmā was also convinced. These things you'll find in
the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Brahma-vimohana. Even Brahmā is bewildered, what to speak of
ordinary men like us.

So kṛṣṇa-līlā, to understand... There is no need of understanding. Simply you love Kṛṣṇa,

then the whole business finished. Just like if you touch fire, if you understand it or not
understand it, the warmness is there. Similarly, either you understand Kṛṣṇa or do not
understand Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter. Simply if you love Kṛṣṇa, then your life is perfect.
That's all.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: You can take this. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. [offer obeisances] [end]

1In the Garuḍa Purāṇa it is said:

artho 'yaṁ brahma-sūtrāṇāṁ

bhāratārtha-vinirṇayaḥ
gāyatrī-bhāṣya-rūpo 'sau
vedārtha-paribṛṁhitaḥ

grantho 'ṣṭādaśa-sāhasraḥ
śrīmad-bhāgavatābhidhaḥ

"The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the authorized explanation of Brahma-sūtra, and it is a further

explanation of Mahābhārata. It is the expansion of the gāyatrī mantra and the essence of
all Vedic knowledge. This Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, containing eighteen thousand verses, is
known as the explanation of all Vedic literature."