Roy Thomas’ Sub-Aqueous

Comics Fanzine

$
6.95
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No. 84
March
2009
Aquaman, Mera, & Aqualad TM & © 2009 DC Comics

When
STEVE
SKEATES
Took The
Silver Age
Plunge!
03

Extra!
5

CHARLES SINCLAIR
82658 27763

On BILL FINGER
PLUS:
1
Vol. 3, No. 84 / March 2009
Editor
Roy Thomas
Associate Editors
Bill Schelly
Jim Amash
Design & Layout
Christopher Day
Consulting Editor
John Morrow
FCA Editor
P.C. Hamerlinck
Comic Crypt Editor
Michael T. Gilbert
Editorial Honor Roll
Jerry G. Bails (founder)
Ronn Foss, Biljo White
Mike Friedrich
Circulation Director
Bob Brodsky,
Cookiesoup Productions
Cover Artist Contents
Jim Aparo
Writer/Editorial: Silver Threads Among The Golden . . . . . . . 2
Cover Colorist
Tom Ziuko The Silver Skeates . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
The unique voice and vision of writer Steve Skeates, interviewed by John Schwirian.
With Special Thanks to:
Jack Adler Robin Kirby “You Two Guys Ought To Do Something Together!” . . . . . . 35
Heidi Amash Christopher Knowles Writer Charles Sinclair tells Jim Amash about his friendship with Batman co-creator Bill Finger.
Michael Ambrose Jeffrey J. Kripal
Sal Amendola Joe Latino Esalen And The X-Men . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50
Bob Bailey Paul Levitz Dr. Jeffrey J. Kripal on holding a “superpowers” symposium with Fradon, Thomas, et al.
Daniel Bianchetta Mark Lewis
Dominic Bongo Darrel McCann Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!: Twice-Told EC! . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61
Jerry K. Boyd David McDonnell Michael T. Gilbert on the stories Gaines & Feldstein found worth repeating.
Al Bradford Bertrand Méheust
Nick Caputo Brian K. Morris Another Clause In The “Will” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 67
Pierre Comtois Mark Muller Would you believe it? Still more artwork from the long-lost 1940s JSA adventure!
Jon B. Cooke Michael & Dulce
Bob Cosgrove
Teresa R. Davidson
Murphy
Victoria Nelson
Comic Fandom Archive: Tom Fagan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69
Brenda Denzler Marc Tyler Nobleman Bill Schelly & Martin L. Greim pay tribute to one of early fandom’s brightest lights.
Wendy Doniger Barry Pearl
Michael Dunne Dean Radin A Tribute To Will Elder. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73
Peter Duxbury David Roach
The Esalen Institute Bob Rozakis re: [comments, correspondence, & corrections] . . . . . . . . . 74
Mark Evanier Arlen Schumer
Jorge Ferrer Alvin Schwartz FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America] #143 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79
Shane Foley John Schwirian P.C. Hamerlinck’s roundup this time: Marc Swayze, C.C. Beck, Ron Frantz, & Jerry De Fuccio.
Ramona Fradon Charles Sinclair
Joe Frank Steve Skeates On Our Cover: Several major artists have done extensive stints on the “Aquaman” series since its

Jim Aparo, who drew the final years of the DC sea king’s original solo title. Our thanks to John
Ron Frantz Warren Spavin 1941 debut, including especially co-creator Paul Norris, Ramona Fradon, Nick Cardy—and the late
Donna Freitas Flo Steinberg
Janet Gilbert Marc Swayze Schwirian for providing us with a copy of what is almost certainly Aparo’s last Aquaman illustration,
Martin L. Greim Walter J. Tanner done for John in 2002. There could have been, it seems to us, no more fitting art to accompany this
Lawrence P. Guidry Russell Targ issue’s interview by JS with longtime Aparo collaborator Steve Skeates. See it in black-&-white on
Jennifer Hamerlinck Greg Theakston p. 16. [Aquaman TM & ©2009 DC Comics.]
Ron Harris Dann Thomas

Superman in World’s Finest Comics #205 (Sept. 1971), aided and abetted by the art of Dick Dillin
Tom Hegeman Jacque Vallee Above: A trio of Teen Titans—Kid Flash, Speedy, and newcomer Mal Duncan—teamed up with
Heritage Comics Jim Vandore
Archives Lynn Walker (pencils) and Joe Giella (inks). More about the Titans, too, in this issue’s dynamic demi-interview
with scripter Steve Skeates. Thanks to Jim Vandore for the scan. [©2009 DC Comics.]
Matt Heuston Gregg Whitmore
David Hufford Marv Wolfman
Greg Huneryager Alex Wright
Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344.
This issue is dedicated to the memory of Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA.
Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices.

Will Elder & Tom Fagan Single issues: $9 US ($11.00 Canada, $16 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $88 US, $140 Canada, $210 elsewhere. All characters
are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is
a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. ISSN: 1932-6890
FIRST PRINTING.

The Silver Skeates
The Unique Voice And Vision Of
STEVE SKEATES In The Silver Age
Interview Conducted & Transcribed by John Schwirian
I NTERVIEWER’S INTRO: In conjunction with my magazine The
Aquaman Chronicles, I began a two-issue review of the Steve
Skeates/Jim Aparo/Dick Giordano era of Aquaman by looking at
the achievements of scribe Steve Skeates, who not only left a permanent
mark on the history of Aquaman, but on the world of comics, with his
work on titles ranging from the political The Hawk and The Dove in the
late 1960s to the humorous Plop! in the early 1970s and beyond. [A/E
EDITOR’S NOTE: Steve’s work from the mid-’70s on will be covered
in the second part of this interview, which will appear in our
TwoMorrows sister magazine Back Issue #33-34, the first of which will
go on sale just a couple of weeks from now.]
There is no denying that a Steve Skeates tale has a distinct feel to it—
an unusual and offbeat perspective that breaks the standard super-hero
mold. But how did he develop that unique voice? What inspired the
mind that brought us underwater Westerns and ecological disasters akin
to 1950s atomic- and space-born monsters? With some prompting, Steve
Skeates clears up the mystery as he tells of his (until now) secret
origins….
3
Steve Skeates & His Pier Group
(Above:) Our interviewee reacts to his
and Sergio Aragonés’ story “The Poster
Plague,” from House of Mystery #202
(May 1972), winning the Shazam Award
for “Best Humor Story” of the year, at
the 1973 ACBA Awards Banquet. “ACBA”
stood for the Academy of Comic Book
Arts, an organization of comics professionals that made a few waves during
the first half of the ’70s. From The ACBA Newsletter, Vol. I, No. 21 (June 1973),
with thanks to Flo Steinberg.
(Below left:) Illustration by Matt Heuston for the limited-circulation
publication The Official Biography of Comic Book Writer Steve Skeates,
produced in 2007 by John Schwirian. The interview serialized in this issue of
A/E and in Back Issue #33-34 was done for that edition—and Matt’s “sequel”
to this drawing will be seen in the latter mag. [Aquaman & Aqualad,
Supergirl, Hawk & Dove, Plastic Man, & Cain and Abel TM & ©2009 DC Comics;
Two-Gun Kid & Spider-Ham TM & ©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Lightning
TM & ©2009 John Carbonaro; Underdog TM & ©2009 Total Television;
Dr. Graves & Thane TM & ©2009 the respective copyright holders;
Steve Skeates caricature ©2009 Matt Heuston.]
“I More Wanted To Be An Artist…
Than A Writer”
JOHN SCHWIRIAN: While much has been written about your
comic book career, little has been said about your life outside the
industry. So let’s start at the beginning: you were born Stephen
Lewis Skeates in a small town in western New York on January
29, 1943. But what was life like in your childhood?
STEVE SKEATES: I spent my formative years near the small
town of Bushnell’s Basin, where my father, an heir to the Xerox
empire, owned a sporting goods store and my mother held down
the position of housewife. I grew up in an area almost exactly
between Bushnell’s Basin and Fairport, New York, in an area
known in the 1800s as Fullam’s Basin, one of the places where
travelers on the Erie Canal would get off the boat and onto a
stage for the last leg of their trip to Rochester and nearby
stopping points. This was an area that had (as a matter of fact)
lain pretty much dormant since the late 1800s when canal and
stagecoach travel starting becoming a thing of the past, with
(all of a sudden!) a spurt of housing construction occurring in
the late ’40s and early ’50s, right when I was a kid, so there
were lots of half-built suburban houses to play around in, and
lots of dirt piles from recently-dug basements providing ammo
for almost daily dirt-ball fights with the other kids in the
neighborhood! Sophisticated stuff like that!
As a kid, I was also very into the early days of television,
and living in the Rochester area was indeed great along those
lines! I don’t know how things worked in other cities, but
around here one of the two Rochester TV stations back there
in the ’50s would borrow movies from the famed Eastman
House movie library and show those classics all Sunday
morning and Sunday afternoon. I was hooked on that stuff,
4 The Unique Voice And Vision Of Steve Skeates In The Silver Age

especially the horror movies In any event, college-wise I did all right in math my first semester, but
and most especially the Val in my second semester I came close enough to failing myself out of the
Lewton ones, undoubtedly a math program that I decided to voluntarily pull myself out of it before I
portion of what got me did flunk and try instead to aim for my real love, writing, even though I
oriented toward comic book still had my doubts as to there being any money in that endeavor,
writing! especially in my doing it the way I wanted to. I wrote a lot of articles for
the college newspaper, many of them with a supposedly humorous slant,
JS: It isn’t hard to see how and ultimately wrote my own weekly column and became the feature
those early television shows editor. Because of all that, I even talked someone or other (can’t
and old movies influenced remember exactly whom) into letting me do a weekly 15-minute radio
your writing. Screenplays are program—not on the college station, since the college didn’t have a station
typically split into three acts, back then, but on the local town station.
launching right into the action
(act one), filling in the
background as the conflict “Those Mid-’60s Marvel Comics Influenced
grows (act two), and reaching Me In A Big Way”
climax in act three, often
leaving the reader with an JS: Which is about the same time you first discovered comic books?
uneasy resolution that leaves SKEATES: I first became cognizant of comic books in college when I
many questions unanswered. wrote my first play. Part of that year, I worked writing snappy patter for a
Your comic scripts often folk-singing group. It was around that same time that I wrote my first
Cat On A Hot Celluloid Roof
matched the movie serial or play; friends who read it told me it sounded more like a comic book story
Cat People (1942) is one of the most episodic television format. But
justly celebrated of the relatively than a theatre piece. Thus I first developed my urge to become a comic
what about novels? What liter- book writer. (The play, incidentally, won second prize at the gala South
subdued “horror films” produced by
Val Lewton—though directed, it must be ature did you read as a boy? Western New York State Drama Festival.)
said, by Jacques Tourneur. [©2009 the
SKEATES: Books I read as a Years later, a certain editor, who shall remain nameless, tried to be nice
respective copyright holders.]
kid? Hey, I was a terrible about refusing to buy any more of my stuff. He used to say, “You’re a good
reader, slow as anything, and writer, Steve. But I don’t think you’re right for comics. Have you ever
like I said, I was totally into early TV. Still, once my age reached double thought of becoming a playwright?”
digits, I did start subscribing to the Mad comic book and really loved
Harvey Kurtzman’s stuff! Truth be known, it wasn’t until I got into college JS: So comic books fueled your desire to be a humorist?
that I started reading actual novels (for high school English class there
had been a lot of Cliff Notes, etc.) and, as for doing so for my own SKEATES: You better believe that those mid-’60s Marvel comics influ-
pleasure (except for a smattering of ’50s sci-fi), it was almost exclusively enced me in a big way; Stan was putting just enough humor into those
detective fiction—Hammett, Chandler, Spillane, both McDonalds, Rex stories (especially Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four, even though the
Stout, et al. more dour “Iron Man” was indeed my favorite) for me to feel that, even
though there no longer seemed to be any jobs extant for humorists, here
JS: If you weren’t a heavy reader as a kid, when did you decide to was something I could indeed write. Being about to graduate from Alfred,
become a writer? I immediately wrote to what I figured were the four major comic book
companies in the country and wound up getting a phone call from none
SKEATES: Like a lot of other comic book writers I’ve talked to, I more other than Stan Lee himself, who offered me a job as assistant editor. The
wanted to be an artist when I was a kid than a writer. Yet (unlike those rest is legend!
others), somewhere during high school I got intrigued by mathematics,
even entered college as a math major. It wasn’t long, though, before I JS: So you actually went straight from college to the big time at Marvel?
switched over to being an English major. Was it a case of instant success, or were there still lean years to struggle
through?
JS: A math major? That’s certainly a far cry from what you do now.
Why math and not art? SKEATES: Lean years? Yes, there were a few, but then again too few to
men—Wait a minute! Wait a minute! That’s a song lyric (or at least a
SKEATES: I gotta admit, since I was rather a math whiz in both Midvale variation thereupon), whereas what I wanted to emphasize here was my
Grade School and Minerva Deland High School, l figured that was my youth and resilience. Yet perhaps first of all I should reach further back
calling, hence my entering Alfred University as a math major. As for the and into my quasi-rural youth—that four-room schoolhouse I attended,
art part—well, actually, I gave up on that quite early, approximately upon the house my father and my uncle built back in 1946 (a beautiful old place
leaving grade school. I did not avail myself of any art instruction in high where my mother still lives), and the road out front, now a veritable
school, mainly because by then I was far more into writing than artwork. super-highway and the easiest way to get to one of the largest shopping
Thing is, what I wanted to write was humor—my heroes being Benchley, malls in the world, while back in the day it was so seldom-traveled that
Thurber, Perelman, Sullivan, and even the earlier Bill Nye, the one that my dog used to safely lie around all day out in the middle of it.
wasn’t a science guy! Yet, by the late ’50s/early ’60s, humor writing was
rather a thing of the past. It may have still been going on, but there Back then—in fact, it seems like forever—I wanted to be a writer
obviously certainly wasn’t any money in it anymore. Thanks to first radio (although quite a bit of the time I harbored doubts about being able to
and then dealt an even heavier blow by television, it had been supplanted make a living doing so, hence my early emphasis on math), and
by comedy—and what I wanted to do was written word stuff, not material furthermore I somehow knew for sure that I was gonna live in New York
to be spoken or acted out! A further reason why I chose to orient myself City—I was totally entranced by the hustle and bustle of urbanity as
toward math! (There was also the fact that some of my favorite writers experienced in nearby Rochester (not all that small a city) and knew
had written merely in their spare time, whereas their real jobs were in the positively that New York was gonna be even better, so that’s where I was
field of mathematics!) gonna go! Thus, when I was in high school, and all my friends were
 The Silver Skeates 5

Stan The (Iron) Man

Stan Lee holding up a Shazam Award, also at an ACBA Awards ceremony—
which may or may not be the 1973 bash. He was, of course, the writer/co-
creator of Iron Man, the “dour” super-hero Steve Skeates heralds as his
favorite Marvel hero of the era. The Heck/Colletta splash is from Tales of
Suspense #69 (Sept. 1965), the issue which would’ve been on sale during
the summer, around the time Steve went to work for Stan. Photo courtesy of
Sal Amendola, who’s prepared a feature on ACBA that will appear in an
early issue of A/E. [Page ©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

learning to drive and were getting their licenses, etc., I wanted no part of
that, pointing out to everybody (my worried-about-me parents included)
that “Hey, I won’t be driving anywhere anyway—I’ll be taking a taxi or
the subway!” And what I would be doing there in the big city would be
writing, although I of course had no idea back then that I would be doing
a sort of writing that required one to live in the city, especially when one
was just starting out, yet that’s what comics were like back when I first got
immersed in them.
JS: Because, back in 1965, all the major publishers were located in New
York City.
SKEATES: Right. Thus, in a
rather big way, I was more
prepared for New York City
than I was for comics. Had
no trouble at all with the
New York way of life,
figured I was finally where I
had always belonged, but
comics were another story
entirely, seeing as I hadn’t
exactly been a fan but merely
a reader—hadn’t really tried
my hand at producing my
own comics nor learned
everything I could about
comics; I just found reading

Two Guns—Two Splashes—

Two Typewriters
The Western winner on the near
left was plotted by Larry Lieber
and dialogued by Steve Skeates,
for Two-Gun Kid #80 (March
1966)—while the one on the right,
for TGK #81 (May ’66), was
plotted by Skeates and scripted
by Lieber. By the way, “Bill
Roman” was a pseudonym for
inker Bill Everett. With thanks to
Darrel McCann & Nick Caputo,
respectively. [©2009 Marvel
Characters, Inc.]
10 The Unique Voice And Vision Of Steve Skeates In The Silver Age

knew I was doing those scripts? And, truth be told, I rather liked it like
From Whither Came that—not having my name connected with the series added to the
freedom I felt; I was able to attempt some really serious experimentation
Warren Savin? without the fear that if I fell on my face I’d be making a total fool of
myself! Yep, ’tis true—I now in retrospect realize that the absence of
Appearing in the letters page for U.N.D.E.R.S.E.A. Agent #4 is an credits quite definitely added to the relaxing pleasure I derived from
enthusiastic missive from a certain Warren Savin of Alfred, New York. writing those Charlton Westerns – not just “Doom” and “Montana,” but
Steve Skeates elaborates “The Sharpshooter,” as well, plus five or
on this inside joke… six Western tales featuring no continuing
characters whatsoever!
Ah yes, that issue of
U.N.D.E.R.S.E.A. Agent Meanwhile, within a somewhat similar
in which “Warren Savin” sort of category, there was (as things
makes a sudden turned out) that one story at Charlton that
appearance, even giving I wrote under a pen name. Yep, though I
his address as Alfred, was pleased no end to have been chosen to
New York—I daresay my script two series drawn by the one and
first wife, Rose, was even only Steve Ditko, as the subsequent reality
more responsible for this of things would have it (due, that is, to the
touch of insanity than I sudden—and totally unexpected, as far as
was! Y’see, being married to someone who had just recently gotten into I was concerned—cancellation of all the Charlton action hero books). I
the comic book business, Rose saw this as an opportunity for her as well only got to write one episode of one of those series.
to do something literary and creative. During that little bit of time I was
working for Marvel, Rose somehow got herself the job of picking out
and purchasing the photos Stan Lee would use in whatever movie-
“I Never Did Get To Write Blue Beetle!”
monster-photos-with-silly-balloons magazine Marvel was putting out at JS: I take it you are talking about the “Question” tale (plotted and
that time, and later on Rose would write a number of those prose piece drawn by Steve Ditko) in Blue Beetle #4? Why did you use the name
filler pages that Charlton threw rather willy-nilly into each of their “Warrin Savin”?
comics. In the case of Tower, she signed on to write the letters page of at
least one issue of U.N.D.E.R.S.E.A. Agent, one which Samm Schwartz SKEATES: I was set to take over the writing on Blue Beetle in issue #5,
was too busy with other stuff to handle himself. The thing is, there were which (as far as I know) never made the scene; thus I never did get to
either no usable letters that came in concerning the previous issue in write Blue Beetle! Since I’d be writing both series in the book, it was a bit
question, or there was but one. In either event, Rose was at a loss as to of misplaced modesty which caused me to use a pen name on the
what to do, so I decided to help out by writing up a couple of phony “Question” stanza—quite possibly the most controversial scripting job I
letters for her to answer—and, as a gag (rather an inside gag, a gag that ever did, and usually even Warren Savin doesn’t get credit for it—people
at least certain people who had attended Alfred University—were they to quote from that story, then attribute said quote to Ditko, which (as a
somehow see the comic—might well get a chuckle out of), I tossed the matter of fact) happened just recently in the 20th issue of Back Issue.
name Warren Savin in there!
There has been speculation, of course, that I chose to use a pen name
But where did the name Warren Savin come from? That of course here because I was so diametrically opposed to Ditko’s political
takes us back to Alfred University, to the occasion of yours truly philosophy, which was all over the place in this series. That sort of stuff
becoming the Feature Editor of the student newspaper. To celebrate that never really bothered me, though! Unlike O’Neil, who simply had to
occasion I wrote an article that was an interview with myself. The editor- transform “The Question” into a liberal series, I quite enjoy conservatives
in-chief liked the piece but thought the idea of me being both the inter- as long as they’re confined to the comic book world—as long as they
viewer and the interviewee was a bit much; thus he changed the byline don’t try to invade reality. My all-time favorite comic strip is Little
and gave the writing credit to one Warren Savin. When I asked him Orphan Annie (back in its early days), and you can’t get more conser-
where that name came from, all he would say was that he made it up. vative than that. As for movies, I love The Fountainhead. Meanwhile, one
need only check out Edward Bellamy’s Looking Backward or Jack
In any event, I loved suddenly having a pen name and proceeded to London’s The Iron Heel to
write a number of interviews employing note that the sort of
that moniker—mock-interviews, socialism I believe in does
actually, with whatever celebrities or not make for particularly
political figures (once it was even the worthy dramatic fiction!
governor), whoever would show up in Hey, I could go on and on
town to perform or speak at the college, here—about how I see
the running gag being that the two conservatism (especially
would wind up talking about Warren when it’s actually practiced)
rather than saying much of anything as being based upon an ugly,
about the supposed subject of the faulty, dangerously self-
interview. That was indeed fun! righteous, we’re-better-than-
Furthermore, later, when I suddenly you view of humanity, but,
wanted (for some reason or another) to instead, I think I’ll simply
use a pen name for some of my comic calm down and await your
book work, I hardly needed Savin Grace next question.
to make a name up—I A classic Many Ghosts of Dr. Graves moment from the story “The Perfect
already had a pen name! Crime” in #3: the supernatural murder of Warren Savin! Art by Pat Boyette. JS: On a lighter note, Dick
Thanks to John Schwirian. [©2009 the respective copyright holders.] Giordano described your
 The Silver Skeates 11

Steverinos Of The World, Unite!

Ditko plotted and drew, and Skeates dialogued, the “Question” story in Blue
Beetle #4 (Dec. 1967), featuring the Ditko-created hero/anti-hero. Alas, though,
Skeates never did a crack at writing a “Blue Beetle” story. For a photo of Ditko,
see A/E #50. Thanks to Michael Ambrose. [The Question TM & ©2009 DC Comics.]

outlines for Abbott and Costello as some of the funniest stuff he ever
read, and that the finished product never matched what you
submitted. What were you doing with Abbott and Costello?
SKEATES: The thing I did with Abbott and Costello that was different
from all my other scripts, the thing that generally tended to crack Dick
up, is that I didn’t describe what was happening. I drew my own little
pictures—got quite good at drawing Abbott and (especially) Costello, and too silly and slapstick, whereas within the second and third story, I settled
often, according to Dick, the simplistic way in which I pictured the gag down into stuff more befitting of a comic book—more satire, more
would work far better than the more elaborate version the artist would parody, and more like what was in the second issue. The third issue
develop. contains an 11-page super-hero parody dream sequence (starring Lou as
Captain Costello) which isn’t bad at all; yet, in retrospect, I daresay it too
JS: I recently obtained a copy of Abbott and Costello #2. Funny stuff. I is a tad too long and not quite as funny as I thought it was way back
like it better than the Plop! material you did later. when. The big plus of the third issue was that I inaugurated there-within
the use of three related one-pagers to be thrown in at various intervals
SKEATES: Hey now, first of all, I am indeed happy and pleased that you
throughout the magazine: “Abstraction” 1, 2, and 3 in the third issue;
so enjoyed the second issue of Abbott and Costello. That particular issue
“Growth” 1, 2, and 3 in the fourth issue, “Sign Language” 1, 2, and 3 in the
may in fact have been the best of the lot, and, at the very least, it is among
fifth issue, etc. The fourth issue remains my own personal favorite
the top four, those four being the first four issues. I spoke earlier of
(although, as indicated above, I’m quick to concede that the second issue
personally quite liking Sal Gentile whilst simultaneously rather
was quite likely a better one).
vehemently disagreeing with most of his editorial decisions, and a number
of those “bad ideas” of his occurred within the pages of Abbott and What happened was: Sal had inherited from Dick a fairly large
Costello. In other words, in my opinion, this particular magazine (after its inventory of “Abbott and Costello” stories, tales that Dick (who generally
first four issues) suffered quite a bit from the absence of Dick Giordano. quite appreciated my way-out-there outlandish sense of humor) thought
were just a bit too outlandish. Sal may have disagreed about that
Being the only writer of this series for quite some time (up until the
outlandishness, or, more likely, he was mainly interested in cutting
ninth issue or something like that), please do allow me to provide a quick
corners money-wise, but, in any event, one of the first things he did when
rundown here. In the first issue I was trying to get my footing, trying a bit
he became the Charlton editor was to stop buying new “Abbott and
too hard to write something similar to an Abbott and Costello movie,
Costello” stories so he could use up this inventory, shoving the best of
with my first story in that issue being way too long (13 pages) and way
these stories into the fourth issue while basically following Dick’s general
28 The Unique Voice And Vision Of Steve Skeates In The Silver Age

both The Spectre and Teen Titans. I may even at that point have
“Things I Enjoyed Writing Even More Than consciously decided never again to invest so much of myself in any one
Super-Heroes” character, never again to try to make some character mine and mine
alone! At least not a hero! However, I did subsequently enjoy playing
JS: While working for Joe Orlando, most of your work was for mystery
around with certain anti-heroes—“The Mummy,” “Pantha,” “This Unholy
(horror) titles, with an occasional dabble into super-heroes. Was it your
Creation”—perhaps because these sorts of characters appealed to the disil-
choice to avoid super-heroes, or did you want to write “Superman,”
lusionment, the bitterness, the cynicism that experience (the annihilator
“Batman,” or other “big name” super-heroes?
of innocence) had provided me with.
SKEATES: It was Stan Lee’s mid-’60s approach to writing super-heroes
that got me interested in comics in the first place, Marvel ultimately
becoming the first comic book company I worked for, as Stan’s assistant.
Of course, Stan wasn’t quite ready as soon as I got there to New York City
(my having been hired
over the phone while living
in Alfred, New York) to
plunk some huge pile of
super-hero writing work
atop my desk. Instead, my
job initially consisted of
proofreading (which I was
relatively terrible at), doing
art corrections (which I was
absolutely terrible at), and
writing Westerns (which, in
all honesty, I wasn’t half-bad
at).
Still, one need only take a
good look at the first
Western I both had a hand in
the plotting of and did all the
scripting for—Kid Colt #127,
“Iron Mask and His Circus of
Crime,” co-plotted by Roy
Thomas—to get it shouted
right in your face just how
much into super-heroes I at
that point happened to be,
trying like anything (assisted
by Roy) to transform this wandering youthful owlhoot’s antics into
something downright super-heroic! Unfortunately, it would be eight years
before I’d actually get my chance to write a Marvel super-hero, yet I did
definitely get my super-hero fix a tad prior to that, writing for Tower and
even trying to make Lightning my sole property soon upon receiving my No Kid-ding Around!
walking papers from Stan and his cohorts. Ye Editor feels that, since he was involved in the little matter of Kid Colt
Outlaw #127 (March 1966), which Steve mentions, it behooves him to stick his
It was at Charlton (where I went after the collapse of the Tower) that I own oar in. As Roy recalls it: Only a few weeks into the comic book biz for
learned that there were other things I enjoyed writing perhaps even more either of them (though a week or two older for Steve than for Roy), Steve
than super-heroes—ghostly stuff, humor, and Westerns that had a hard asked RT to work with him on the plot to that “Kid Colt” tale. But it didn’t turn
and brooding edge to them (making those Marvel sagebrush sagas I had out well, through no particular fault of artist Jack Keller’s.
cut my teeth on seem like kiddie Westerns in comparison). Then, finally, Roy distinctly remembers standing uneasily in Stan’s office one day in late ’65
ultimately, I got my big fat chance to write one truly humongous load of while Marvel’s editor lambasted the story to him and production manager Sol
super-hero adventures once the big leap from Charlton to DC became a Brodsky (Steve was apparently not there—he was off staff by then). Stan hated
reality—Aquaman, Hawk and Dove, Teen Titans, Spectre—and, in so the opening sequence, in particular, where two minor, nondescript baddies
doing, truth be told, I was quite honestly surprised by how deeply I could jam into each other as they enter a saloon, then slug it out for two pages
still get into this sort of stuff, and how utterly enjoyable (even at this late before Iron Mask (finally) makes his entrance. At one juncture, Roy felt
obliged to try to defend one aspect of the story—he forgets which one. Stan
date) doing what I had originally set out to do could be!
turned to him with a withering glance and said icily, “And the less you say at
Was I setting myself up for a big fall? In retrospect, I can now quite this point, the better!” Roy clammed up.
sincerely say, “Could be!” That is to say, after three years of working on Maybe Stan was right about that tale—and its reception by him certainly didn’t
Aquaman, I had invested quite a bit (perhaps not even all that do Steve any good at Marvel—but it still doesn’t seem all that bad to Roy. He’s
consciously) in that character. He had become at once my best friend and read—and written—worse. Steve wrote RT a few months back, however, that he
knew nothing about that conference. [©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]
my imagined self. And, having that book fold (and for no good reason,
and certainly no reason that involved my own self but simply because Incidentally, contrary to Steve’s recollections on p. 6, Roy remembers being
hired at Marvel not to replace Steve but to complement him. Stan wanted two
Infantino and Giordano couldn’t get along) was rather devastating,
new assistants/writers, not one—and soon hired Denny O’Neil to fill the spot
especially occurring as it did downright concurrently with the loss of vacated by Steve.
 The Silver Skeates 29

Yea, Team!
Steve did write a number of key super-heroes for DC, though. In World’s Finest Comics #203 (June 1971) he teamed up with Dick Dillin & Joe Giella to script
a Superman & Aquaman co-starrer—while in Super-Team Family #3 (Feb-March 1976) he scribed a Flash & Hawkman story with Ric Estrada & Wally Wood.
Thanks to Mark Muller. [©2009 DC Comics.]

There are many factors involved, of course, in one’s decision as to

whether or not to pursue as the subject of one’s writings some big-name
super-hero. Even one’s political beliefs play a role here, the vast number of
liberals who joined the comic book industry in the ’60s (writers, mainly)
being faced with the problem of chronicling in a positive manner the
adventures of characters who came off as self-righteous jack-booted self-
proclaimed superior beings. The very reason that Europeans, though they
loved American comics, couldn’t warm up to any of our super-heroes
(making for lousy European sales for those sorts of comics) is that World
War II took place right there where they live, destroying their populations
and making their homelands (for quite some time) all but uninhabitable.
Therefore, the idea of a benevolent fascist (a rather apt description of your
regular ordinary super-hero, if you ask me) was to them not merely an
impossibility; it was offensive, as well! And so it was with a number of the
more liberal writers who tried like hell to tone down the inherent “might
makes right” aspects of the super-heroes they were writing for.
To my way of thinking, the secret identity aspect of most of these
characters only added to the problem here. A secret fascist, one who
couldn’t own up to what he was doing but had to do it on the sly—what
does that say? That, in fact, is one aspect of Aquaman I quite enjoyed—
that he essentially didn’t have another identity. He may have been Arthur
Curry, but not in any of my stories.
“Everything I Had In Mind for ‘Aquaman’”
JS: Speaking of “Aquaman,” when he returned to Adventure Comics as a
backup feature to “The Spectre,” you wrote the first two stories. Yet,
when “Aquaman” was moved to the lead feature, you were replaced as
the writer (even though Jim Aparo returned to the art). Why didn’t you
write the new series?
SKEATES: Before I make the soapbox I was up on previously my home,
do allow me to point out that much of what you’re talking about here
comes down to decisions made by various editors rather than any decision
on my part. It’s all rather similar actually to what had happened to me and
The Teen Titans—“Supergirl” changed editors, and, though I would have
quite enjoyed continuing to write for that character, the new editor had
other ideas.
The same was true of “Aquaman”—in fact, in this instance, the editor
had decided to write the series himself. He—Paul Levitz—did in fact ask
me to write one fill-in issue, and I just re-read that issue (Adventure
#449), thus reacquainting myself with the fact that after the experience I
had writing this adventure, I no longer wanted to have anything to do
with the sea king! It’s not all that bad a story—’twas in fact a variation
upon the tale I had originally planned for Aquaman #57—but Paul and I
just couldn’t see eye to eye on anything here. He saw my ideas as being too
 35

“You Two Guys Ought

To Do Something
Together!”
CHARLES SINCLAIR On His
Partnership—And Friendship—With
BILL FINGER, Co-Creator of Batman
Interview Conducted by Jim Amash
Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

L ongtime Alter Ego readers

know that I never miss an
opportunity to discuss Bill
Finger, co-creator of Batman (as well as
of Green Lantern and Wildcat), with
those who had known him. A couple of
years back, I was talking to Marc Tyler
Nobleman about Batman for an
upcoming project he was working on,
when the subject came around to Mr.
Finger. Marc and I both lamented the
fact that our knowledge of this
important creator was severely limited.
Bill Finger died in 1974, giving very few
interviews, leaving us with many
unanswered questions.
While talking to Marc, I remembered
that Finger had a writing partner named Charles Sinclair, and that he
had never, so far as we knew, been interviewed on this subject. Marc
subsequently found his phone number, passed it on to me, and we both
ended up interviewing Mr. Sinclair for our own projects. One of Marc’s
projects deals a lot with Finger, in ways this interview does not, as you
can see on his website at www.noblemania.blogspot.com. And my
project of course, was for Alter Ego. Now, finally, we have Charles
Sinclair to tell us about the human side of the man who died without
proper due or recompense for his co-creation of Batman and Robin, as
well as the many side-characters and villains who populated their
fictional adventures. There is more of Bill Finger‘s story yet to be told…
but for now, we gratefully thank Mr. Sinclair for his insights and help in
fleshing out the biography of one of the most neglected comic book
creators in our history. —Jim.
“We Concocted A Script…”
CHARLES SINCLAIR: I met Bill Finger around 1949, ’50. He was a
friend of the lady I was then married to. Her name was Coral Nieland.
She had been working as a secretary at DC Comics, and got to know Bill
there. One time, we had a New Year’s Eve party. I was relatively recent to
New York City and didn’t know that many people—she knew a lot of
people—so she got most of the invitational lists. Coral Nieland was also a
Batman & Bat-Friends
Charles Sinclair in 1966 (above) and Bill Finger
(date uncertain, below)—flanking Adam West
as Batman and Burt Ward as Robin from the
phenomenally popular TV series of the ‘60s.
Photo of Sinclair courtesy of the artist,
forwarded by Jim Amash & Teresa R. Davidson.
[TV still ©2009 DC Comics.]
part-time actress, and
had a minor part on the
Superman radio show. I
think the character was
“Ginger Davis,” a
copygirl on The Daily
Planet. At any rate, she
invited Bill Finger,
whom I had never
previously met, and his
wife. They showed up
along with Jerry
Robinson and the lady to whom he was married—I believe, at that time,
a beautiful blonde model named Leslie. Joe Shuster came, too; it was a
very pleasant evening. I got along well with Bill Finger and Portia, and
with many of Cory’s friends. Bill was living in Manhattan; I think his
address was 45 Grove Street, which was right smack in the middle of the
Village, just off Seventh Avenue—as Villagey as you could get.
He was an interesting and fun person in kind-of a pixyish way, which
would kind-of flash out at you, a “Tom, the fun-loving rover” type. I liked
his sense of humor and turn of phrase. I had the initial impression he was
self-made and self-educated in many ways, and I think that impression
proved to be correct.
36 Charles Sinclair On His Partnership—And Friendship—With Bill Finger

So we concocted a script for Nick Carter,

Master Detective, which is probably in my files
somewhere. Now this is where Bill’s gimmick book
came in handy. Bill had a notebook in which he
would jot down ideas that might have some use in
a detective or “Batman” type of story. There were
all sorts of ideas: chemistry things, when you add
such-and-such to so-and-so, then you’ve got a
reaction, or “often mistaken for such-and-such”-
type facts, little-known facts; things about artwork
and painters, cookery and chemistry and medicine
and criminology. Good Lord, ballistics and finger-
prints and powder marks on the hand of the
In The Nick Of Time person who shot the gun, whatever—Bill had loads
Nick Carter, Master Detective ran on of stuff on this, and the tests for it, and what they
the Mutual radio network from 1943 would show. He would work these things into
through 1955. That’s the series from stories. Well, one of the things he had was some
which the Internet-derived photo information about jade. Jade is not only found in
above shows Lon Clark voicing the China, but also way out in Wyoming—a big streak
title role, with either Helen Choate or of fairly high quality. The Chinese symbol for
Charlotte Manson as his girl Friday, “virtue” also is the symbol for “jade,” which was
Patsy Brown. one of his gems that he had down in his book.
The long-lived hero originated in
1891 (!) in the Nick Carter Detective So we wrote a story about jade being smuggled
Library, whose rare first cover is into New York City by a master criminal we
seen at right—while Nick Carter named “Rocks” Malvern, as I remember. Rocks
Magazine was a pulp mag in the was very, very big on gemstones. Nick Carter
mid-1930s. In recent years he’s
finally cracked the case. The way the case was
become a “super-agent” in
paperbacks. [©2009 the respective
cracked—this is the idea that I added--now you
copyright holders.] begin to see a partnership forming. Bill came up with the jade
subject, and I came up with a “how to locate a town in Wyoming“
idea. They go out on location, and they find this battered truck
I had a background in radio.
which had been used to drive around into the mining areas. The
Television was in its infancy
truck had a push-button radio, and the push-buttons had the desig-
around that point, but radio was
nations for stations, K-something. You know, KOUF or whatever.
still rolling along at the time
[NOTE: With few exceptions, radio stations west of the Mississippi
when I met Bill. Originally, I
River begin their call letters with the letter “K” —Jim.] There were
worked as an announcer in
three workable push-buttons on the truck radio.
Atlanta for a major radio station.
I came north to go back to That’s where I came into play, because I used a radio reference
college [Columbia] under the book for accuracy. It was alphabetical by states, and then stations
G.I. Bill, and stayed on in New within that by towns. I found three Mutual stations forming a triangle,
York City. and the truck radio was able to pick up, at one time or another, any
one of these three stations. And so the center of the triangle would be
JA: Did you get to know any of
the mining area where all this was taking place. Sure enough, we
the other DC people?
added to the crime lore, and it worked. The stations down the line
SINCLAIR: Not really. I was were tickled to death that they were being mentioned and were instru-
introduced to Mort Weisinger, mental in helping to crack this case. The bad guys were brought to
who was an editor, and a guy justice, and the jades returned to its owners.
named Dick Rothman, who was the in-
JA: What year was this?
house publicity guy for DC Comics and a friend of my then-wife.
SINCLAIR: It’s either ’49 or ’50. I don’t think it was ’51. That would be
Bill and I were not instant buddies, but he was added to our circle of
kind-of later on. It’s in that time frame where radio drama was fading
friends, and the four of us did things. We went to Broadway shows, like
away. By ’55, I think Bill and I, as a sometimes writing team, were off into
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes. We had a lot of common interests. I don’t
other things that paid more. I think we were paid $300 for it; 150 for Bill,
know who came up with the idea of “You two guys ought to do something
150 for me. It might have been $600 where it was 3-and-3, I don’t
together!“ It just sort-of grew. With the broadcast connections that I had,
remember now. That was way back. Not a hell of a lot by today’s
I turned up a show called Nick Carter, Master Detective on the Mutual
standards, but we were tickled to death. This was found money, and we all
Broadcasting System, produced by a guy named Jock MacGregor. Lon
went out to dinner on it, and listened to the broadcast. That started the
Clark was Nick Carter, and was as square as the corners of drugstore ice.
partnership, and we worked together on and off after that. We did some
He had this charming, very sexy girl [Charlotte Manson] playing Patsy,
other radio shows, and then moved over to television.
his right-hand girl. She had all the straight lines: “But, Nick, I don’t under-
stand…” That kind of thing. I had a slight entrée to this show, which was a JA: Do you remember what other radio shows you two did together? It
freelance radio drama show built around a central character. You were not would have been a detective series, right?
creating a detective, he was already there. It’s like writing another Sherlock
Holmes piece. So I suggested to Bill, “We might stand a chance of landing SINCLAIR: Very likely, whatever was open for scripting. We worked on
a script on this thing. Would you be interested?” And he was. Murder by Experts. We were itching to get in on the TV side of the thing.
 “You Two Guys Ought To Do Something Together!”
We were painting pictures with words, and doing our work with music
and sound. Bill thought visually, but he was fine at radio writing, too. He
couldn’t draw worth a hoot. He was not a trained artist, but he had a very
good sense of staging. He was also a great movie fan, usually going by
himself, and taking a notebook. He would go to Saturday matinees, and I
think when his son Fred was born, Bill would take him to the movies.
They would sit through a big double feature, and Bill was taking notes
quietly.
JA: Jerry Robinson told me that Bill was particularly enamored of
foreign films. Do you recall that?
SINCLAIR: Yes, I do. Bill was not a linguist, but he liked foreign movies.
He liked British detective stories very much—the really neat serious stuff.
Bulldog Drummond was a kind of a British Nick Carter. Let me think of
some of the movies he liked: Green for Danger, with Alistair Sim, and
The Blue Lamp with, I think, John Mills. He liked little murder mysteries
with Eric Portman—is that the name I’m trying to think of? Anyway, the
actor I’m trying to think of was always playing courtroom dramas where
he would level a finger at the accused, and thunder in this wonderful deep
Baritone voice of his, [with a British accent] “I put it to you, sir, that your
entire testimony is a tissue of lies.” Whammo! [mutual laughter] He used
that line in several various movies in various situations. Bill loved
courtroom dramas of that ilk—and to some extent, the foreign French
ones, which were sometimes pretty good: Diabolique, and movies of that
type.
JA: How long did you two write for radio?
SINCLAIR: As briefly as possible, because we were itching to get into
television. Maybe a year or two. We got in on the tail end of radio, and
couldn’t wait to get into the TV thing because (A) it was more money, (B)
it was more glamour.
“Our First TV Show”
JA: Who’d come up with the basic plot? Would one of you fill out a
structure to the other to follow?
SINCLAIR: Ahh, interesting question. Usually, a TV deal went something
like this: I would come up with the opportunity, sniffing it out through
connections made as a journalist covering the TV scene, working with
various major trade publications, including Billboard, which had a TV
section then, competitive with Variety. We met with lots of people who
were in the production field in TV. New shows, new things were
happening, and we wanted in on it.
Our first TV show was, of all
things, a series called Foreign
Intrigue. Foreign Intrigue was
filmed by a guy named Sheldon
Reynolds, a New Yorker who was
operating in postwar Europe, and
shooting his stuff in Sweden, which
is a very bilingual country, with
Swedish actors. A lot of the people
who popped up in Swedish movies
spoke very good English, and it was
sort of post-World War II European
intrigue with hints of the KGB at
work. I found the Foreign Intrigue
door and pushed it open a bit.
Okay, they would at least read our
script, so Bill and I got together and
wrote an episode. It didn’t have Foreign Wide
much to revolve around, and this is This is probably a still from the early TV series Foreign Intrigue,
where Bill’s memory for every starring actor Jerome Thor. The series was reportedly filmed in Europe,
damn movie he ever saw came up. and indeed was later syndicated in the US as Dateline Europe.
[©2009 the respective copyright holders.]
37
What the producer wanted was a show about a traveling hitman who
would float around European capitals, knocking off defectors from an
unnamed organization, that was pretty obviously the Russian Secret
Service and/or KGB. We needed a villain who could float around, and not
be recognized. The person who was being hit might see the face, but then
bang, that’s the last one he’s going to see. So Bill came up with the
gimmick that solved that one, and the gimmick went something like this:
in 1948 or thereabouts, Cecil B. DeMille made a movie called The
Greatest Show on Earth, with Betty Hutton, Jimmy Stewart and others.
Jimmy Stewart, for some reason or other, was on the lam. He was wanted
by police authorities for a crime he didn’t commit, and he was trying to
find the evidence to clear his name and was traveling around with the
circus. Now why did nobody recognize him at the circus? Because he was
a clown. What does a clown wear?
JA and SINCLAIR: Makeup! [mutual chuckling]
SINCLAIR: Right. So we created a character named Conrad the Clown,
who traveled around the European Vaudeville circuit, playing music halls,
and all that stuff. He’s got this clown makeup on, and you never see his
face. They hired this famous Swedish circus clown, I think, to play him,
who was hilarious on stage, and shot it live in front of a big audience in a
music hall setting somewhere in Sweden.
Then we had some other stuff, other situations in the story where he is
knocking off somebody like a professor or physicist or whoever was
wavering in his admiration for the Soviet Union. In that time, you see him
without his makeup and bang, he shoots the guy. Then, way late in the
story, where our hero—who is like a foreign correspondent doing kind-of
a detective role here—is talking to Conrad, who is a suspect, in his
dressing room. Conrad is busy taking his makeup off, and this made for a
very good scene. The scene was intercut, you get shots of Conrad, close-
ups, white going off in makeup, all that sort of thing. Finally, he turns to
the camera and bang! This is the guy who is the hitman. All right, that’s
straight out of the Jimmy Stewart swipe from the Greatest Show on Earth.
This is our first-time venture into TV, a beautiful black-&-white filmed
TV show, shot in Europe. Now the last part of this, because Bill is not the
only guy who went to see movies a lot—I came up with a thing. I remem-
bered a movie with Jack Benny and Carole Lombard, To Be or Not to Be,
about a traveling troupe of players who were playing in Poland in 1939,
and the War is about to break out. This Nazi type is tracked down in the
theatre, right? And there is a chase in the theatre, and the guys working
the spotlights are following him, running around on the stage, and then
out up into the boxes, and running around in the mezzanine. A chase,
gunfire, all that sort of thing, in the
theater, right? It enormously
impressed me. It was terrific
direction in that movie by Ernst
Lubitsch. So, as the tag for this
Foreign Intrigue episode, Conrad
the Clown bolts from the dressing
room as the police come in, and
now the chase is on in the theatre.
He’s racing around on stage, then
he’s up in the boxes, and he’s
running around in the mezzanine,
and this is the idea I came up with.
So here were two great movie bits
welded together with additional
dialogue and bingo, we had a script!
JA: So you were both working out
plot and structure, and both of you
wrote dialogue?
SINCLAIR: Yes, Bill was very good
on dialogue because there is no
50 The Human Potential Movement And Super-Hero Comics

A/E EDITOR’S PREFACE: From June 1-6, 2008,

my wife (and ofttimes collaborator) Dann and I
attended a symposium sponsored by the Esalen
emerging guest list. Subjects to be covered would include remote viewing,
UFO abductions, and various psychical phenomena, but the participants
were neither wild-eyed “true believers” nor professional skeptics. These
Institute’s Center for Theory and Research. It was held at that legendary folks had credentials—and we were honored to be included. At the last
retreat located three hours south of San Francisco on California’s Big Sur moment two or three invitees, including current comics writer Grant
peninsula, amid its natural hot springs and breathtaking view of the Morrison, were unable to attend for personal reasons; but the score who
surging Pacific pounding the rocks beneath the cliffs. Reluctant as we were on hand for its several hour-and-a-half presentations each day
generally are to leave our own little patch of paradise in South Carolina found it a worthwhile, perhaps even enlightening, experience—in
for that long, we found it impossible to between the relaxing hot springs baths
turn down Dr. Jeffrey J. Kripal’s and the full-body massages enjoyed by
generous invitation to be a part of this some, of course. (All work and no play,
first-ever Esalen event to deal with etc.)
comics books and their relation to the
sciences and to the human potential What follows is Jeffrey’s account of
movement—a discussion of varying that symposium, which was officially
approaches, as it were, to the notion of titled “From the Supernormal to the
super-powers. Superpower.” It was the first but
probably not the last of its kind—and
As the time approached, and after if anyone out there ever receives an
helping Jeffrey contact several comics- invitation to such an event, I whole-
related people he felt might contribute heartedly recommend that he/she
to the gathering, Dann and I were accept at once. —Roy.
intrigued and impressed by the

Man And Super-Men

Jeffrey J. Kripal, chairman of the Department of Religious Studies at Rice University in Houston, Texas, hosted the June 2008 Esalen symposium titled “From the
Supernormal to the Superpower.” Above is a photo of Jeffrey (at right) speaking with Roy Thomas and Hall of Fame comic artist Ramona Fradon during a break.
Below is the cover of Jeffrey's 2007 book Esalen: America and the Religion of No Religion, about the possibilities of the “supernormal” (the human potential
movement was born, or at the very least midwived, at the Esalen Institute)—flanked by the halves of a montage by X-Men co-creator Jack Kirby. The latter
show the original five X-Men in two different pencil drawings, as inked by Jerry Bingham and Mike Allred, respectively, for Pure Imagination’s 1994 tome
Jack Kirby’s Heroes and Villains. With thanks to Greg Theakston. [Book cover ©2009 University of Chicago Press; photo by Daniel Bianchetta; X-Men TM &
©2009 Marvel Characters, Inc.]
 51

Esalen And The X-Men

The Human Potential Movement And
Super-Hero Comics
by Jeffrey J. Kripal
That such a person actually exists (or existed) seems plausible to me, The potential is there, just like Obi-Wan Kenobi said it was.
increasingly so as the discoveries of psychology and physics continue to
reveal the intertwinings of mind and the physical world. It is inevitable, Remote viewer Ingo Swann in Jim Schnabel’s Remote Viewers: The
I think, that pioneers like this will appear in our midst…. Secret History of America’s Psychic Spies, chapter 19, “Obi Swann”

Michael Murphy in Jacob Atabet, 1977

Native American tribal group (the Esselen) that once populated the same
Introductions area in Big Sur, California, Esalen quickly became both a countercultural

B y training and profession, I am a historian of religions, a field

that most people would probably better recognize as “compar-
ative religion.” Basically, I study and compare religious systems
mecca and the original home of the human potential movement. Today,
about 10,000 people visit the Big Sur cliff each year for about 400 different
seminars and events, ranging from folk music concerts, yoga workshops,
like other people study and compare cultural systems, political philoso- and Buddhist meditation practicums, to seminars on greening the
phies, novels, or movies. More especially, I read, translate, and interpret economy and invitational conferences on Jewish-Christian-Muslim
mystical literature, that is, texts from around the world that express and relations or post-mortem survival (yes, that’s right).
enact some fundamental unity, even identity, between divinity and
Murphy and Price adapted the idea of “human potential” from the
humanity. Put bluntly, I study how human beings come to realize that
British-American writer Aldous Huxley, who had spoken of something he
they are gods in disguise. I thus fancy myself a professional student of the
called “human potentialities.” Much indebted to his famous experiments
first alter ego.
with psychedelics (another key-word which he helped coin), Huxley used
In the spring of 2007, I published a book on a broad spectrum of the expression “human potentialities” to argue that human consciousness
American metaphysical traditions called “the human potential and the human body possess vast untapped resources of Mind and
movement.” I modeled much of this book on the occult novels of Michael Energy. Consciousness, for example, is not something produced without
Murphy, who in 1962 co-founded with the late Richard Price (1930-1986) remainder by the brain in Huxley’s thought. It is something filtered
something that soon came to be called the Esalen Institute. Named after a through or received by the brain, much as a television set or radio receives
a distant signal that is not really in the box (or the brain).
Mind, then, in its true nature is something to capitalize for
Huxley. It is essentially transcendent, metaphysical, cosmic.
Drawing on such altered states and altered words, writers
like Murphy would go on to suggest that the human potential
includes all sorts of extraordinary powers that are “super-
normal,” from psychical abilities like clairvoyance and
telepathy to extraordinary physical phenomena like dramatic
healings or feats of strength, even in a few rare cases (like
Teresa of Avila and Joseph of Copertino) apparent levitation
or flight. All of these things, of course, have been exaggerated
in religious literature, folklore, and modern fantasy as super-
natural but, according to authors like Murphy, they are better
understood as foreshadowings or intuitions of the hidden
potentials of evolution. Murphy and his colleagues, in other
words, believe that evolution has granted at least some
human beings extraordinary “superpowers,” and that these
have been encoded, if no doubt also exaggerated, in fantasy
literature, movies, science fiction, and super-hero comic
books. Seen in this light, such pop cultural genres are essen-
tially human potential genres in disguise, genres that “might
prefigure luminous knowings and powers that can be realized
by the human race,” as Murphy put it in his 1992 magnum
opus The Future of the Body.1
Yea, Team(s)!
The originators—West and East! (Left:) A photo of Richard Price, who’s on our left, and 1Michael Murphy, The Future of the Body: Explorations Into the
Michael Murphy, founders of Esalen, taken shortly after their first meeting in the fall of
1960. (Right:) Marvel editor/writer Stan Lee and artist/co-plotter Jack Kirby at a 1966 Further Evolution of Human Nature (New York: G.P. Putnam’s
meeting of the National Cartoonists Society. Thanks to Barry Pearl, who says, “It’s easier to Sons, 1992), 211-213, “Superordinary Powers in Fantasy
find pictures of Joe Sinnott and Jack Kirby together than of Stan and Jack, and Joe and Jack Literature, Cartoons, Movies, and Science Fiction.”
didn’t meet for 20 years!” [Price & Murphy photo by permission of the Esalen Institute.]
52 The Human Potential Movement And Super-Hero Comics

Esalen imagined itself from the very beginning as a kind of alternative
private academy for this evolving future of the body, that is, as a place
where the human potentialities hinted at in psychedelic, psychical, and
mystical experiences could be supported, nurtured, and developed further
through consistent transformative practices and a stable institutional
structure. Consider, for example, the case of George Leonard, Look
magazine journalist, education reformer, and later aikido master who
coined the phrase “the human potential movement” with Murphy in 1965
(after that other recently coined phrase, “the civil rights movement”).
Leonard was well known in the late ’60s for his radical models of
education reform.
Power is precisely what the members of the Society for Psychical Research
had in mind when they helped introduce a new word: the “supernormal.”
The idea of mystical mutations that produce various psychical and
occult powers, in other words, has been in the air for at least 130 years
now. It goes back to the very origins, and to one of the two historical
founders, of evolutionary biology itself. It is one of our most basic cultural
convictions, now more or less suppressed by official science but experi-
encing something of a hidden Renaissance in the human potential
movement, in popular culture (think Heroes on TV), and in the super-
hero comics.

Hence one of the opening scenes of his wildly popular Education and This anyway is what I was thinking as I finished my 2007 history of
Ecstasy (1968). Leonard enters a classroom and senses a young witch Esalen. I was struck again and again by these deep resonances between
whose psychic powers, he realizes, are laced with an obvious and the basic ideas of the human potential movement and the super-hero
dangerous eroticism. He can feel his skin tingling as he exits the room and comics of my adolescence and youth. I still had many of those comics. I
wonders about the young girl’s fate in a superficial and uncomprehending remember pulling them out of the closet in my early forties, half-embar-
world. In Leonard’s model of ecstatic education, at least, the typical rassed but entirely delighted. I then visited local comic book stores in
American high school classroom is a place where occult talents are first Houston and discovered and rediscovered the work of writers like Grant
manifested (often around puberty and the appearance of the sexual Morrison and contemporary artists like Alex Ross and Barry Windsor-
powers) and then cruelly crushed under the weight of social control, Smith. I found myself returning to—okay, obsessed with—these images
disbelief, and pure neglect.2 The young woman will forget about her own and ideas, until I finally allowed myself to write an Appendix entitled
human potential, about her own magico-erotic superpowers. She must “Esalen and The X-Men: The Human Potential Movement and American
forget them. Mythology as Practiced and Imagined Forms of an Evolutionary and
Atomic Mysticism.”
Origins I never published that Appendix, not because it wasn’t good enough
(or because the title was awfully long-winded), but because the book was
If this is beginning to sound like the base mythology of The X-Men, already pushing 500 pages and I knew my editor would not be pleased
well, then, you have some idea of where this is all going. If you imagine, with yet more pages to edit, copyedit, and print. So I stopped. I occulted
however, that my story goes back to New York City in 1963 with Stan Lee my own occult appendix. But now I’m publishing the heart of it here,
and Jack Kirby (or even to Big Sur in 1962 with Michael Murphy and quite appropriately, I think, for Alter Ego, that “Other I.”
Richard Price), you may be surprised to learn that this particular
“Origins” story is significantly older and more complicated than either of
these early-’60s scenarios. Meeting On The Cliff
Consider, for a moment, the following facts. Consider the great French But that is not the end of the story.
philosopher, Henri Bergson. Bergson was profoundly involved in the data The idea of mystical-mythical resonances continued to haunt me. I
and experiments of psychical research. Indeed, he was the President of the talked continuously about it with Michael Murphy, who had become both
London Society for Psychical Research in 1913. In the early decades of the a mentor and a close friend. Mike began calling me “Professor X.” He also
twentieth century, moreover, he wrote beautifully of what he famously began referring to himself as “Nightcaller” (an inside pun, as we first met
called the élan vital, a kind of cosmic evolutionary force that reveals the
universe to be, as he put it in the very last line of one
of his books, “a machine for the making of gods.”
Well before Bergson, though, the Canadian doctor
Richard Maurice Bucke had written a rather
eccentric tome about evolution as a mystical force
creating spiritual, cultural, and literary geniuses—his
1901 classic, Cosmic Consciousness. Earlier still, a
number of Cambridge professors, spouses, and
friends had gathered together to found the London
Society for Psychical Research, in the winter of 1882,
to be precise. Attending one of their very first
meetings was none other than Alfred Russel Wallace,
the co-originator with Charles Darwin of the theory
of biological evolution. Fame aside, Wallace cared
little for the orthodoxies of religion or science. He
attended séances, performed Mesmeric experiments
on his students (as Aldous Huxley did with his
family and friends), asserted the postmortem
survival of our mental and spiritual natures, and
speculated, with his SPR colleagues, that “there yet
seems to be evidence of a Power which has guided
A Bridge Too Far
the action of those [evolutionary] laws in definite
directions and for special ends.” This evolutionary Magneto (portrayed by Ian McKellen) deconstructs San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge in the film
X-Men: The Last Stand. Jeffrey Kripal, however, assures us that the structure has been fully repaired.
2 George B. Leonard, Education and Ecstasy (New York: With thanks to David McDonnell of the invaluable Starlog magazine. [Photo TM & ©2006 20th
Century-Fox. All rights reserved. All X-Men character likenesses TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]
Dell, 1968), 4.
 61

[Art ©2009 William M. Gaines Agent, Inc.] [©2009 Eerie Publications.]

62 Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Twice-Told EC — Part 1!
by Michael T. Gilbert

I n 1953, Joe Kubert, Norman Maurer, and Norman’s brother Leonard

came up with a way to do 3-D comics, and convinced publisher
Archer St. John to put out a 25¢ Mighty Mouse 3-D title. It was a
We begin with
Feldstein’s “Spawn
of Venus,” origi-
phenomenal success, reportedly selling out two print runs of a million nally written and
copies each! Naturally, everyone wanted to get on the gravy train, drawn by
including Entertaining Comics publisher Bill Gaines. Feldstein for
Weird Science #5
Gaines and editor Al Feldstein set to work producing three 3-D titles. (March 1951).
One, an EC sampler, featured stories from their horror, humor, sci-fi, and Here, Feldstein’s
war titles, while the second was devoted to horror stories. A third was crude but
planned, devoted to science-fiction. But they had to move fast to take powerful art pulls
advantage of the fad, so they ordered their best artists to completely the reader into
redraw old EC stories for 3-D. the story and
never lets go.
The first, Three Dimensional Classics (3-D #1) hit the stands in the
spring of 1954, (see the Harvey Kurtzman cover on right), followed by Wally Wood’s
Three Dimensional Tales from the Crypt of Terror (3-D #2) with the version, three
same cover-date. years later
(below right), is
Many of the scripts were originally written (and sometimes illustrated) much more polished
by EC editor Al Feldstein. This time, he assigned the art to artists like but equally creepy,
Wally Wood, George Evans, Bernie Krigstein, and “Ghastly” Graham breathing horrible life into Feldstein’s story about an unstoppable flesh-
Ingels. Though we only have room to print a handful of splash pages, eating blob. Wood’s rendition was drawn in 1954 for EC’s never-published
these beautiful Twice-Told Tales provide the reader with a unique oppor- third EC 3-D title. A 2-D version of the story was eventually printed in
tunity to see some of the finest artists in the field tackle the same script. 1969 in the sixth issue of Wood and Bill Pearson’s prozine, witzend.

[All art this page ©2009 William M. Gaines Agent, Inc.]

 Twice-Told EC—Part 1! 63

Above we have Al Feldstein’s haunting end-of-the-world tale, “Child of Below, we have “The Slave Ship!” drawn by “Radioactive” George
Tomorrow!” from Weird Fantasy #17 (actually #5) (Jan. 1951), followed Roussos for Weird Fantasy #8 (July 1951), followed by Bernie Krigstein’s
by Reed Crandall’s version from EC’s unpublished 3-D #3,which finally more design-oriented take, intended for 3-D #2, and printed in Squa
saw print in 1970 in Squa Tront #4. Tront #4 years later.
[All art this page ©2009 William M. Gaines Agent, Inc.]
 67

Another Clause
In The “Will”
Would You Believe It? Still
More Artwork From The Long-
Lost JSA Adventure!
by Roy Thomas

T he truth is out there.

But, like Carl Sandburg’s famous fog, it comes sneaking in on
little cat feet… one tentative paw at a time.
In several earlier issues of Alter Ego, as reprinted in the first three
volumes of TwoMorrows Publishing’s All-Star Companion series, various
tiers (rows) of panels and even full pages from the never-published mid-
1940s “Justice Society” story “The Will of William Wilson” have emerged
from the mist. First directly from the cache of artwork (which had mostly
been sliced into thirds of pages) that was rescued circa 1969 from DC’s
hungry incinerator by comics pro Marv Wolfman and distributed amongst
members of The Illegitimate Sons Of Superman (TISOS) fan club,
especially to the late Mark Hanerfeld—then in 2001 from Stephen Fishler,
[© DC Comics.]
owner of Metropolis Collectibles in New York City—and along the way as
they showed up, one by one, on eBay or in Heritage Comics auctions,
several other shards of the original TISOS stash.
Over time, we’ve been lucky enough to savor, counting this latest 1/3 of
a page, exactly 22 pages’ worth of that 48-page “JSA” saga, which was
written by Gardner Fox sometime between 1943 and 1945 (probably in
the former year) and illustrated by various artists. This latest tier, from the
“Green Lantern” solo chapter drawn by Paul Reinman, was first brought to
our attention in 2008 by the vigilant Dominic Bongo when it popped up
in a Heritage Comics auction. Like the full “GL” page printed in The All-
Star Companion, Vol. 3, it was won by collector Dan Makara, who kindly
shared a hi-res scan with us:

Dan agrees with us that this pair of panels probably forms the top of
page 3 of the 6-page “GL” segment, following right after the full page 2
which appeared in ASCV3—and which is likewise owned by the fortunate
Mr. Makara. Of course, there’s always a slight chance that another row of
panels intervenes, and that what we have is actually the middle of p. 3—
not that it matters much. It’s merely a continuation of the Emerald
Gladiator’s scuffle with a trio of thugs on a boat in mid-Atlantic, as he
searches for a long-sunken chalice made by the sculptor Benvenuto
Cellini—complete with a couple of mild quips and the misspelling of the
word “occasion.” (Which would probably have been fixed, had the tale
ever been printed.)
One tier of artwork. Hardly a mother lode, given the year and a half
since the publication of ASCV3. If other panels of “Will” art and story still
exist—let alone the totally-AWOL “Hawkman” and “Johnny Thunder”
chapters—it’s unlikely we’ll ever see quite all of them.
Like the fabled frog that leaps halfway to the end of a log with each
hop, we’ll probably never get to the end.
Still, it’s a journey that has been well worth the taking.
 Comic Fandom Archive 69

Tom Fagan
One of Early
Comic Fandom’s
Brightest Lights
The Passing Of A Founder Of
The Rutland, Vermont, Parade
by Bill Schelly

A t 10:00 pm on October
21st, 2008, long-time
comics fan Tom Fagan
died. He was 76 years old.
A newspaper reporter and
editor at the Rutland Herald Fagan In Fact And Fantasy
for many years, Tom was best
The drawing above was done for a Fagan t-shirt by Marty Greim
known in comicdom as the co- (head) and Al Bradford (body), as repro’d by Tom Hegeman in
founder of the famous CAPA-alpha magazine. The photo at right appeared on the
Halloween parade in Rutland, Rutland [Vermont] Herald website on Oct. 13, 2008, and was
Vermont, which began in 1959 supplied by Bill Schelly. For some of Tom’s best 1960s fan-
and continues to this day. He writing, see his short piece “Warlock” from A/E [V1] #5, reprinted
was also known as one of the in the TwoMorrows trade paperback Alter Ego: The Best of the
finest authors of articles in the Legendary Comics Fanzine. [Art ©2009 Martin L. Greim & Al
1960s comics fanzines, from Bradford; photo ©2009 Rutland Herald.]
Batmania to Alter Ego to
Comic Crusader (and others).
Though I only met Tom Fagan
once (at a Comic-Con International several years ago), I feel as if I’ve like any fan at the time, I delighted in seeing both Tom and the parade
known him since the 1960s. I originally “met” Tom in the pages of Biljo portrayed in a number of comic books in the 1970s. That made Fagan a
White’s Batmania fanzine, shortly after I found out about comics fandom. comic book character himself, and I suspect it delighted him immensely.
He had contributed a wonderful article titled “The Big Parade” in issue #3
(1965), where he described the colorful Halloween parade in New Tom was viewed as an eccentric in Rutland, and was loved the more
England which had Batman as its Grand Marshal. Oh, how I wished I for it. A great admirer of James Dean, he wore his hair slicked back in his
could have attended or participated in one of those parades, and not only best imitation of Dean as Jim Stark in Rebel without a Cause. He also
because they sounded like so much fun! Tom’s evocative article is a classic named his daughter Deana. Having come of age during the Beat gener-
of its kind, and as such, I chose to reprint it in my Comic Fandom Reader ation of the 1950s, he took to wearing all black, a preference he continued
book in 2002. for the rest of his life.

Surveying the fanzine scene of fandom’s Golden Age, I think Tom was
one of the very best writers, right alongside Richard Kyle, Rick Weingroff,
and a few others. Perhaps to an extent that was to be expected, given his
career in journalism, but there was something about his prose that went a
step further than factual reportage. His skillful writing combined intelli-
gence with a sense of wonder about the objects of our fascination. I only
wish he had written more.
Roy Thomas or someone else would be better qualified to write about
the now-legendary post-parade parties that Tom held in a Rutland
mansion—and indeed, they were dealt with in A/E, Vol. 2, #3 (1999)—but
In Tom’s obituary in the Rutland Herald, Deana Fagan is quoted as
saying, “In some ways, he never stopped being a child. He enjoyed having
fun. He didn’t think he had to be a certain way just because of his age….
He’s one of those people who made involvement in comics more likely for
an adult. He made it legitimate.”
We’ll end our tribute to Tom’s passing with this passage from Joe
Latino (with his permission):
“I attended the funeral services at the Clifford Funeral
Home in Rutland on Wednesday, October 29, 2008. It was a
70 Comic Fandom Archive
dark, overcast, cold, and windy day that somehow seemed
appropriate. It had actually snowed the night before. There
was a crowd at the funeral home where the services were held.
Tom had been cremated and the box read: “M. Thomson
Fagan.” It appeared to be a black lacquer box with a silver
cross at the top and a simple yet elegant appearance. It also
contained the year of birth and death. There were several
floral arrangements, but by far and away the best was the one
from the Boston Butchers with a festive Halloween theme and
Batman throughout. And no other arrangement captured the
Halloween flavor that Tom loved so much!”
I Remember Tom Fagan
by Martin L. Greim
T
om Fagan.
I first met Tom at Phil Seuling’s SCARP-Con in 1969. I had
recently started doing material for my friend Bob Cosgrove’s fanzine
Champion, and Bob knew him via contacts in comics fandom. I shook
Tom’s hand and said, “Nice to meet you, Mr. Fagan.” To which he replied,
“Call me TOM!” That event brought about a relationship that lasted for
over thirty years.
Tom wrote a number of wonderful articles for my fanzine Comic
Crusader, and I drew most of the art that accompanied them. I also did
some of the art for articles he wrote for other fan publications. During our
fan time together, Tom arranged for Bob Cosgrove, our friend Al
Bradford, and myself to meet and interview the Binder brothers… Otto
and Jack. Of all the interviews conducted for Comic Crusader, that was
one of the best. Both of them had sharp memories of the Fawcett years
and provided some wonderful original art to use with the piece. I
certainly owed Tom a great deal for setting up that meeting.
A
Phantasmagoria
Of Fagan
(Clockwise from far
left:) Tom working
on a Halloween float
in 1971—Tom as
Batman in 1970, with
fellow fan Sue O’Neil
as Hela—and Tom
with Bill Schelly at
the 1998 Comic-Con
International in San
Diego. Batman/Tom
photo provided by Al
Bradford; others
supplied by Bill
Schelly.
Tom was also the driving force for the Rutland Halloween Parade.
Many comic book professionals, myself included, went to and contributed
to that event. Both Marvel and DC also did stories based in Rutland about
that annual parade. When I was writing the Thunderbunny comic book, I
did one, too. Brian Buniak, the artist on that series, did a wonderful
likeness of Tom for that story. With pardonable pride, I think it was the
best story done regarding the parade. Tom even supplied me with info
about street layouts and the location of a certain statue that was the other
focus of Rutland. It worked out very well.
As years went by, Tom grew less enchanted with comics fandom. He
became more withdrawn and was injured when he was hit by a truck on a
snowy Vermont evening. As a result of that accident, he was less mobile.
He still enjoyed comics, but rarely replied to most fans who tried to
contact him.
My fondest memory of Tom, in his later years, came about when I
organized a trip to Florida so he could go to the various parks there. Our
mutual friend Joe Latino, along with Bob Cosgrove and myself, did all the
parks. My favorite remembrance of that trip was a picture I took of Tom
with Mickey Mouse. Tom had a wonderful time. He did things that I
would never dare to do. He rode on the Hulk roller-coaster.
That trip was the last time I saw Tom in person. I wrote him on a
regular basis, keeping him up on new products coming out about comic
[Art ©2009 Estate of C.C. Beck.]
 81

finally coming up loudly with: “Marcus D. … er … er …

Sausage?” It brought a laugh … and didn’t take long for a
barracks pal to provide the “Lord Brookfield” part.
The year was 1943. The senior officer at the reception
center had been quite understanding at the suggestion
that the regular dress uniform was unsuitable wear for
the temporary studio work I was doing.
My status at the time was uncertain. The officer in
charge had seen benefit in my presence as one capable of
preparing signs and posters promoting military
By insurance and war bonds among the enlisted men, plus
simplifying directions for the continuous procession of
[Art & logo ©2009 Marc Swayze; Captain Marvel © & TM 2009 DC Comics] recruits being classified. That was my studio work. What

[FCA EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a top

I called my studio was the unused end of the barracks
building that had been converted to a storage facility. “Artist,” though, was
artist for Fawcett Publications. The very first Mary Marvel character not among the civilian professions listed in the manual as acceptable for
sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illustrated her earliest reception center permanent placement.
adventures, including the classic origin story, “Captain Marvel
Introduces Mary Marvel (Captain Marvel Adventures #18, Dec. ’42); But the officer knew how to finagle. “Ever done any personnel work?”
but he was primarily hired by Fawcett Publications to illustrate Captain he asked. Of course I hadn’t … but had always found it very interesting, I
Marvel stories and covers for Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel hastily fibbed. And, first thing you know, I’m a member of headquarters
Adventures. He also wrote many Captain Marvel scripts, and continued company … as a classification specialist … in the adjutant general’s
to do so while in the military. After leaving the service in 1944, he made department!
an arrangement with Fawcett to produce art and stories for them on a It has been said that once you’re hooked on comic books, you stay
freelance basis out of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and hooked. We were a long, long way from Times Square … the Paramount
stories for The Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing Building … Fawcett Publications … but there was a comic book character
the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip for Bell Syndicate (created by his friend that kept buzzing around in the
and mentor Russell Keaton). After back of my mind … getting into
the cancellation of Wow, Swayze and out of various fictional scrapes
produced artwork for Fawcett’s top- … demanding a place on the typed
selling line of romance comics, sheet. You may have experienced
including Sweethearts and Life the feeling. The character was
Story. After the company ceased Captain Marvel.
publishing comics, Marc moved over
to Charlton Publications, where he So I wrote. And my procedure
ended his comics career in the mid- was simple … get the hero in
’50s. Marc’s ongoing professional trouble and have him get out of it
memoirs have been a vital part of by his own powers. Of course
FCA since his first column appeared when the hero is a superguy it’s
in FCA #54, 1996. Last issue, Marc unlikely a trouble can be found
discussed the Christmas cover he that bothers him much … so the
drew for Captain Marvel distress must befall someone else
Adventures #19. In this issue’s … someone he cares about. Billy
installment, “Lord Brookfield Batson … the station WHIZ radio
Sausage” looks back at the Captain kid? No. But Billy could be of help
Marvel scripts he wrote while in getting things rolling … like
serving in the army during World bringing on the Shazam act and
War II — specifically, 1943’s turning the rescue stuff over to the

the Gremlins.” —P.C. Hamerlinck.]

“Captain Marvel and the Pledge of Big Guy.
Back in the days of Ed Herron,

I
may have been considered the
camp clown … parading around
the military grounds day after
day clad in the utterly informal blue
jeans referred to as “fatigues”. Yet, I
bore a rather distinguished title …
“Lord Brookfield Sausage!”
That title? It was a chilly morning
outside Barracks C, the entire
shivering membership awaiting mail-
call … two noncoms assigned to that
duty puzzling over an envelope …
editor of Fawcett comics, there had
come to my attention the impor-
tance of having the hero on stage
in Act I, that is, in our game,
having Captain Marvel appear
early in the story, at least briefly.
Thereafter he could rest up for a
while, to be brought back for that
important part of a narrative the
French referred to as the
“Lord Brookfield Sausage”
“denouement” … pronounced
Marcus D. Swayze, center, and a pair of Ft. Oglethorpe buddies during
duh-noo-maw … with that last
World War II (1943): “My assignment at the time was posters promoting the
purchase of war bonds among the military.” Photo courtesy of MDS. syllable sort of accented up
 84

The De Fuccio Papers – Part III

JERRY DE FUCCIO And The History Of Comics
by Ron Frantz
Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck

F ormer Mad associate editor,

the late Jerry De Fuccio,
possessed a vast amount of
knowledge of the Golden Age
of Comics—self-proclaimed “nuggets”
of which he would often share in corre-
spondences with people such as myself
and The Jungle Book. Borth did a nice feature on Sabu, on and off the
screen; with incredibly good inking for the 1940 comic book era. Later,
he did Phantom Lady, Spider Widow, and The Raven for both Feature
and Police Comics. Borth was also with Treasure Chest from 1946-
1971. He was Reed Crandall’s art school chum, roommate in New York
City, and took Crandall into his family when Reed was on the skids.
Borth did some nice comics at Ziff-Davis, as well as Quality.

8/28/86: Your Robin Red and Spencer Spook #3 previews are clean and
and Ron Frantz, editor of the short-lived
ACE Comics line from the ’80s. While my
gab-fest with Jerry during the final six clear. Richard Hughes would envy your re-designing of Spencer. The
years of his life centered upon our Robin Red characters panoply is interesting, which stimulates me to do a
mutual love of artist C.C. Beck’s work, career article on Pat Boyette for PROfiles.
Frantz’s letters from De Fuccio, revealed
again here in the final installment of this
three-part article, packed more drama and
encompassed a wider variety of comic book lore
and facts. We left off at the end of Part II during the
mid-’80s with De Fuccio and Frantz’s ongoing, infor-
mation-laden correspondence—which was destined soon
to come to an unfortunate halt. We pick things up with
a 1986 De Fuccio letter regarding pulp artist Harry
Steeger. —PCH.

Mad Man Those things which now seem frivolous

Richard Baratz drew the and slight, will be of serious consequence to
above caricature of you, when they have made you once
Mad magazine
—Earl of Roscommon
ridiculous.
associate editor Jerry
De Fuccio for an article

6/30/86: I once did a Harry Steeger interview,

which appeared in
Joe Brancatelli’s
delightfully caustic as a follow-up to my Rafael de Soto interview
Inside Comics #4 (1974). in [Cartoonist] PROfiles. Steeger is a dynamic
[©2009 respective
Daddy Warbucks-type, still scuba-diving in his
copyright holders.]
seventies. This interview would go nicely with a
folio of cover gimmicks that were literally
swiped by the early comic book artists. I have a list of my favorites,
selected as I scanned de Soto’s scrapbook. He did some 800 pulp covers.
You’ll have to disregard Steeger’s bitter accusations against Brookside
Publications, to whom he entrusted so many paintings and now-rare
pulp issues.

During this period, Jerry was going through a rough period financially.
I tried to help as much as I could. One time I sent him several hundred
dollars in cash via FedEx so that he could pay for some unexpected car
repairs. Although I had no particular use for it at the time, I paid Jerry for
rights to publish the Steeger interview. I also bought some original
artwork from Jerry by Klaus Nordling, Jack Kent, Bob Clarke, Al Jaffee,
and several others. Some of it had been previously published, some not.
Some, I suspect, were Mad magazine rejects. However, it was all good Daredevil vs. The Claw
stuff and I certainly didn’t mind publishing it in my various ACE Comics In Cartoonist PROfiles nos. 33 and 34, Jerry De Fuccio presented Jack Cole’s
titles, usually as fillers. I never did publish the Steeger interview, which classic battle between The Claw and Daredevil. The art was
re-drawn by Captain Marvel chief artist C.C. Beck, whom De Fuccio
continues to repose in my files, awaiting some future publication.
commissioned in the ’70s to recreate Cole’s story. Beck lightly added

7/13/86: I’m borrowing a True Comics in which Frank Borth did a

his own touch to the tale while remaining true to the spirit of the original—
and, according to De Fuccio, Beck had “beefed up a lot of Cole’s pen lines
splendid Sabu story. He was the elephant boy of such films as Drums and lettering.” The story was reprinted in Ron Frantz’s ACE Comics Presents
#1 (May 1987). [©2009 respective copyright holders.]
 FCA (Fawcett Collectors Of America) 85

11/3/86: In Cartoonist PROfiles #33 and 34, we ran the sixteen-page

battle between the Claw and Daredevil; a Jack Cole classic. The art was
re-drawn by C.C. Beck, who beefed up a lot of Cole’s pen lines and
lettering, without changing the character of the art. It was apparent that
Cole had tired on some of the pages. You could pass them off as “A
Tribute to Jack Cole,” without reference to Beck at all.

11/13/86: I suggest that “Fantomah, Mystery Woman of the Jungle”

would be a good pick-up for your purposes. A Fiction House story from
an early Jungle Comics, it is very unusual and fascinating artwork by
Hank Fletcher, which appeared only from 1939-1941. If you can latch
onto some Fantastic Comics (Fox) we can show his “Stardust, the Super
Wizard,” also. A very bizarre science-fiction feature that ran for 16
issues.
I have sent Michael Delle-Femine [the editor at Cracked magazine]
some whimsical material, which may go over if John Severin illustrates
it. I’ve asked Bill Emerson to look for the poster of Skyman by Ogden
Whitney, as Delle-Femine tells me he‘ll be writing it for you.

11/25/86: I dropped Marie Severin a note, regarding John Severin’s

unlisted phone number. I recall that John did the Yellow Claw for
Timely, at the time of Joe Maneely’s death. Matter of fact, the E.C. termi-
nated and out-of-work Al Feldstein wrote that issue of Yellow Claw. I
think I’d have Severin do the Daredevil Battles the Claw cover. We need
mood and impact, contrasting with Jack Cole’s flat work inside. Perhaps
the lettering should be done on an overlay. Severin was never into
lettering. Gaspar Saladino has created logos for me. He lettered your
“Super Heroes Convention” by Al Jaffee. Also, “Parable,“ by J. Severin
and me. I’m convinced we need Severin on the Cole cover!

1/3/87: Maybe it’s time for you to phone John Severin? I would like to
deliver the Hughes scripts and the Jack Cole photographs simultaneously,
in one package. That Skyman drawing didn’t turn up in Emerson’s vault.
Ron Goulart must have it.

If comics historian (and sf and mystery writer) Goulart had the

Skyman drawing, he apparently had no intention of digging it out. My
thought at the time was that he planned to use it himself at some later
date. This attitude upset Jerry. I will admit that it irritated me a little, too,
[A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: On the other hand, it was only Jerry D.’s
although I suspect that Goulart didn’t lose any sleep worrying about it.
intuition that Ron Goulart had the art—and he may not have.]
At Jerry’s suggestion, I gave John Severin a phone call. Severin seemed
friendly and was willing to do the job. The only problem was that he
expected a fee comparable to what he was paid to illustrate covers for
Cracked. This figure was about three times more than I had ever paid for
a cover. The profit margin was too narrow for me to justify the expense.
Severin must have had all the work he could handle, as there was no room
for negotiation. I thanked him for his time and hung up the phone. I
ended up passing the assignment along to Steve Ditko, who produced a
magnificent cover. Jerry, however, who didn’t care much for Ditko’s art,
thought I should have used Severin, no matter what the cost. Oh, well. If I
have learned any one thing of lasting consequence in this life, it is that
you can’t please everyone.
Ditko In For Severin
The cover to ACE Comics Presents #1 (May 1987), featuring C.C. Beck’s
re-creation of Jack Cole’s Golden Age classic “Daredevil Battles The Claw”
story. Jerry De Fuccio practically pleaded with ACE publisher Ron Frantz
to hire John Severin to draw the cover, but Frantz instead passed
the assignment over to Steve Ditko … with outstanding results.
[©2009 Ron Frantz.]
threatened to sue. When I told him that I had no intention of paying him
one red cent, he turned belligerent and said I would be hearing from his
attorney.
I immediately called Jerry to tell him what had happened. For some
reason, the situation worried him. Jerry virtually pleaded with me to pay
Bernhardt and keep it quiet as possible. This had something to do with
the story having been published earlier in Cartoonist PROfiles. I think
the bottom line is that Jerry feared it might affect his standing with
PROfiles publisher Jud Hurd if he were called to testify in court.

It was a good thing I didn’t spend the extra money on Severin. Shortly
after the issue was published, I got a phone call from a fellow named
Arthur Bernhardt, who claimed to own the copyright on the “Daredevil
Battles The Claw” story. Bernhardt had been co-owner of New Friday
Publications (1941-42), before selling his share of the business to Lev
Gleason. Bernhardt’s claim of ownership was nonsense. The story was
clearly in the public domain, because the original copyright had not been
renewed. In my mind, the whole thing smacked of extortion. Bernhardt
demanded an absurd amount of money for restitution; otherwise he
Sure enough, I got a phone call from some attorney representing
Bernhardt a few days later. To hear him talk, I was facing doom itself
unless I agreed to pay the blood money. His threat didn’t bother me, and I
gave him my attorney’s phone number. My attorney called a day or two
later, telling me that I had stirred up a real hornet’s nest. He seemed to
think that Bernhardt was serious about going to court and suggested that
it would be less expensive to settle for a token amount than to go through
all the time and expense of defending myself in a civil action. It has been
my experience that lawyers are a lot like doctors. If you are not going to