Dangwa SB-15-CRM-0037-0053 April 28 2022

1
2 REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES

3 SANDIGANBAYAN
4 Quezon City
5
6 Third Division
1
2
3 PEOPLE OF THE PHILIPPINES,
4 Plaintiff,
5 - versus - CASES NOS. SB-15-CRM-

6 0037-0042
7 For: Violation of Sec. 3(e) of

9 R.A.
10 No. 3019
11
12 SAMUEL M. DANGWA, ET.AL.,
13 Accused.
14 x---------------------------- x
16 Plaintiff,

18 0043-0048
19 For:
20 Malversation (Art. 217, RPC)
21
23 Accused.
24 x---------------------------- x
26 Plaintiff,

28 0049-0053
29 For:
30 Direct Bribery(Art. 210, RPC)
31
33 Accused.
34 x - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
35
36
37
38 TRANSCRIPT
39
40
41 of stenographic notes taken down
42 by the undersigned Judicial Staff
43 Officer during the hearing of the
44 above-entitled case held on 28
45 April 2022, before the following:
7
1
2 TRANSCRIPT
3 SB-15-CRM-0037-0053
4 People vs. Samuel Dangwa, et.al.
5 Hearing on April 28, 2022
6
7 TSN by A. Bernabe Witness: Atty. Alma G. Cagat-Cagat
8 (complete testimony)
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10
1
2 HON. AMPARO M. CABOTAJE-TANG
3 Presiding Justice
4 Chairperson
5
6
7 HON. BERNELITO R. FERNANDEZ
8 Associate Justice
9
10
11 HON. RONALD B. MORENO
12 Associate Justice
13
14 *****
15 With the following
16
17 COURT PERSONNEL ASSISTING:
18
19 ATTY. MARY JEAN VALDERAMA
20 Executive Clerk of Court II
21
22 ANJHO A. BERNABE
23 Court Stenographer IV
24
25 MR. MARK ANTHONY A. DORAN
26 Court Interpreter III
27
28
29
30
31
32
33 *******
34
35
36 A P P E A R A N
37 C E S
38 For the Plaintiff:
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1 PROSECUTOR JOSELITO FERRER
2 PROSECUTOR JULIETA ZINIA A. NIDUAZA
3 PROSECUTOR JOAN PAULETTE D. NUÑEZ
4 PROSECUTOR MARIA RIZZA S. FERRER-
5 MENDOZA
6
7
8 For the Defense:
9
10 ATTY. EDILBERTO B. TENEFRANCIA
11 Counsel for accused Erwin Dangwa
12
13 ATTY. TEODORO C. ALEGRO, JR.
14 Counsel for accused Mario Relampagos
15
16 ATTY. HANS ROGER S. LUNA
17 Counsel for accused Nuñez, Paule and Bare
18
19 ATTY. IRYL BOCO
20 Counsel for accused Dennis Cunanan and special appearance for
21 accused Jover and Buenaventura
22
23 ATTY. RONY A. GARAY
24 Counsel for accused Janet Lim Napoles
25
26 ATTY. TECELYN MARAMAG
27 Counsel for accused Ma. Rosalinda Lacsamana
28
29 ATTY. FRANCISCO R. MUÑEZ
30 Counsel for accused Encarnacion, De Leon and Cabilao
31
32
33
34 *******
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1
2
3 P R O C E E D I N G S
4
5
6
7 CHAIRPERSON:
8 Good morning everyone. Justice Fernandez will
9 preside.
10
11 JUSTICE FERNANDEZ:
12 Call the cases.
13
14 ATTY. PULMA:
15 Criminal Case No. SB-15-CRM-0037-0053, People of

16 the Philippines vs. Samuel Dangwa, et.al. for
17 continuation of the testimony of prosecution
18 witness Alvin Bermido.
20 Alright. For the prosecution first.
21 PROS. NUNEZ:
22 Good morning, Your Honors. Prosecutors Niduaza,

23 Ferrer-Mendoza, Nunez and Joselito Ferrer,
24 respectfully appearing for the prosecution.
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1 Alright. We will call the accused one by one.
3 For accused Erwin Dangwa?
4 ATTY. TENEFRANCIA:
5 Good morning, Your Honor. Respectfully

6 appearing for accused Erwin Dangwa.
8 For accused Relampagos.
9 ATTY. ALEGRO:
10 Good morning, Your Honor. Same appearance for

11 accused Relampagos.
13 Alright. For accused Nuñez, Paule and Bare?
14 ATTY. LUNA:
15 Good morning, Your Honors.
17 I cannot hear you, Atty. Luna. There’s something

18 problem with the microphone.
19 ATTY. LUNA:
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1 Good morning, Your Honors. Respectfully
2 appearing for accused Nuñez, Paule and Bare.
5 Okay. For accused Dennis Cunanan.
6 ATTY. BOCO:
7 Good morning, Your Honors. Same appearance for

8 accused Dennis Cunanan. I am Atty. Iryl Boco.
10 Alright. For accused Janet Lim Napoles.
11 ATTY. GARAY:
12 Good morning, Your Honors. Atty. Rony A. Garay,

13 same appearance for accused Janet Lim Napoles.
15 Okay. For accused Lacsamana?
16 ATTY. MARANAG:
17 Good morning, Your Honors. Atty. Cherry Mae

18 Alamag, respectfully appearing for accused Ma.
19 Rosalinda Lacsamana.
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1 For accused Espiritu? None. For accused Amata?
2 None also. For accused Buenaventura? None. For
3 accused Jalandoni, Chita Chua? None. For accused
4 Cruz and Ordoñez? None. For accused Filipina
5 Rodriguez? None. For accused Jover, Concepcion,
6 Mendoza, Cacal, Guanizo, Relevo and Sevidal, from
7 the Public Attorney’s Office?
8 ATTY. BOCO:
9 Your Honors, special appearance for accused Jover.
11 Only for accused Jover?
12 ATTY. BOCO:
13 And Buenaventura, Your Honor.
15 Special appearance for accused Jover and

16 Buenaventura?
17 ATTY. BOCO:
18 Yes, Your Honor.
20 For accused Encarnacion, De Leon and Cabilao?
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1
3 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
4 Good morning, Your Honors. Atty. Franciso

5 Muñez, appearing for accused Encarnacion, De
6 Leon and Cabilao.
8 You are back, Atty. Muñez.
9 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
10 Hopefully, Your Honor.
12 If you are absent today, it is already three (3) strikes,

13 and you still not explain to the Court why you are
14 absent in the last two (2) hearings.
15 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
16 May I be allowed, Your Honor?
18 Go ahead.
19 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
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1 I was really planning to withdraw as counsel.
4 For these accused.
5 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
6 For all the cases filed before the Sandiganbayan.

7 Actually, I withdrawn from some of the cases
8 because of misunderstanding with all of my clients,
9 but they requested me to continue that is why I
10 reconsider and continue in representing them.
12 Anyway, for these cases, you are still the counsel for
13 accused Encarnacion, De Leon and Cabilao.
14 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
15 Yes, Your Honor.
17 Alright. Okay. Prosecution.
18 PROS. FERRER:
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1 Your Honor, our witness is supposed to be Atty.
2 Alma Cagat-cagat. Before that, Your Honor, I would
3 like to make some manifestations.
6 Go ahead.
7 PROS. FERRER:
8 During the last hearing, Your Honor, we are

9 supposed to compare the Set 2 (interrupted)
11 Wait, so we will not be confused. You will be

12 presenting Atty. Cagat-cagat.
13 PROS. FERRER:
14 For today’s hearing.
16 Yes. She has documents brought.
17 PROS. FERRER:
18 She has, Your Honor.
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1 So, you referred to this as the source documents.
2 These were the ones taken from the vault.
3 PROS. FERRER:
4 Yes, Your Honors.
6 And in the custody of Atty. Cagat-cagat.
7 PROS. FERRER:
8 Yes, Your Honor. May I continue, Your Honor?
10 Go ahead.
11 PROS. FERRER:
12 Upon agreement by the prosecution and the defense

13 counsels, after the hearing of these cases last April 21,
14 2022, this representation caused the personal
15 photocopying of the source documents to be testified
16 to by the witness, Atty. Alma Cagat-cagat.
18 Actually, it was not upon the agreement of the

19 parties. It was upon the directive of the Court.
20 PROS. FERRER:
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1 The photocopying, Your Honors.
3 And then.
5 PROS. FERRER:
6 What I did, Your Honor, is, I have to photocopy the

7 source documents. It is almost perfect, Your Honor.
8 With the photocopying of anew, there are four (4)
9 sets. The first set is the source documents, second set
10 is certified true copies of the documents as certified
11 by Atty. Alma Cagat-cagat and which were marked
12 previously as prosecution’s exhibits. The third set is
13 the certified copy of the source documents by Ms.
14 Alberto and to which the markings from the second
15 set be transferred.
17 Okay.
18 PROS. FERRER:
19 And the fourth set, the new colored photocopies of

20 the source documents.
22 Which are almost perfect.
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1 PROS. FERRER:
2 Yes, Your Honors. Actually, Your Honor, earlier, we

3 started comparing, Your Honors, the source
4 documents, the two (2) sets. Although, I mentioned
5 them, under lawyer’s oath, I was the one who
6 photocopy them. These are faithful reproductions of
7 the source documents.
9 The Court appreciates your effort, Prosecutor Ferrer,

10 for personally photocopying the source documents.
11 PROS. FERRER:
12 Yes, Your Honors.
14 And then?
15 PROS. FERRER:
16 Thereafter, Your Honors, I proposed to them a while

17 ago the following stipulation of facts of the source
18 documents entitled JLN Checks Disbursement
19 Reports.
21 For the year 2007.
22 PROS. FERRER:
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1 Yes, Your Honor. These are my proposals to them and
2 it appears that they will agree, Your Honor.
5 Wait a minute, Prosecutor Ferrer, before we consider

6 the proposed stipulations. The Court is intrigue to the
7 answer of the witness, Atty. Cagat-cagat, particularly
8 in question number 11 of the Judicial Affidavit. Will
9 you take a look at it please? Do you have it?
10 PROS. FERRER:
11 Yes, Your Honor.
13 The question is, after you issued a certified photocopy

14 of the JLN Cash/Check Disbursement Reports for CY
15 2007-2010, what happened to their originals? The
16 answer is, they were stored in one of the locked
17 cabinets assigned for the PDAF cases. The entire
18 contents of which are turned over to Ms. Joana Mae
19 Alberto, who took over as the OIC of the records of
20 the OSP, January 2017. Correct? Did I read it
21 correctly?
22 PROS. FERRER:
23 Yes, Your Honor.
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2 Alright. Just a clarification, are the documents that

3 will be testified on by Atty. Cagat-cagat which you
4 personally photocopied, are they the same documents
5 which were testified on by witness Joanne Alberto?
6 PROS. FERRER:
7 Yes, Your Honors. She testified only on the selected

8 source documents.
10 No. But the documents testified on by Alberto are also

11 be testified to by witness, Atty. Cagat-cagat. Except
12 for some.
13 PROS. FERRER:
14 Yes, Your Honor.
16 Except for the some in the sense that there are some
17 documents that need to be testified by Atty. Cagat-
18 cagat which are not presented during the testimony of
19 witness Alberto. Correct?
20 PROS. FERRER:
21 Yes, Your Honor.
22
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2 So, in other words, let me finish, you are going to

3 reintroduce the same documents which were
4 presented and testified on by Alberto by Atty. Cagat-
5 cagat also. Are you doubling so much effort here?
6 Because they have already agreed to stipulate on the
7 documents presented and submitted in the custody of
8 Alberto which some of which also now in the custody
9 of Atty. Cagat-cagat because Alberto turned over
10 these documents or handed it over to Atty. Cagat-
11 cagat. Yes?
12 PROS. FERRER:
13 Yes, Your Honor.
15 Are we not repeating it again?
16 PROS. FERRER:
17 Your Honor (interrupted)
19 Will you not focus on the documents which are not

20 offered by the testimony of Alberto and are now
21 offered by Atty. Cagat-cagat.
22
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1 PROS. FERRER:
2 I will answer that, Your Honor.
4 Go ahead.
5 PROS. FERRER:
6 Because during the last hearing, during the

7 presentation of Joanna Mae Alberto, the certified true
8 copies presented by witness Alberto are in black and
9 white, not colored, Your Honors.
11 Alright. Okay. Remember, the documents presented

12 by Alberto and photocopied as the third set is actually
13 the fourth stipulation on the testimony of Alberto and
14 that is, the fourth set is the faithful reproduction of
15 the source documents submitted by witness Alberto
16 except for the comments which are noted by Atty.
17 Tenefrancia and said that they are highlighters which
18 did not appear in the photocopy. That is all. Are you
19 going to repeat that again?
20 PROS. FERRER:
21 Exactly, Your Honors, that is why, anyway, since that

22 there are only few of them (interrupted)
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1 That is why, I am trying to abbreviate the
2 proceedings. Can you not just present the documents
3 that were not presented and identified by Alberto to
4 be testified on by Atty. Cagat-cagat.
5 PROS. FERRER:
6 We can do that, Your Honors, but the problem is that,

7 so that all the documents are in colored copies, Your
8 Honors. It will be much better.
10 So again, you will be requesting the transfer of the

11 markings of the third set to the fourth set because of
12 the colored nature of the fourth set.
13 PROS. FERRER:
14 Yes, Your Honor, because the fourth set is almost

15 perfect.
17 How will it affect the testimony of witness Alberto if

18 we do that?
19 PROS. FERRER:
20 The chain of custody, Your Honors.
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1 The chain of custody? Why? Is there an issue as to the
2 chain custody?
3 PROS. FERRER:
4 From Atty. Cagat-cagat to Alberto, Your Honor.
6 Why? Was there an issue there? Was it broken at

7 least?
8 PROS. FERRER:
9 No, Your Honor, because Atty. Cagat-cagat was the

10 previous custodian of these documents.
12 Exactly, that is why, she testified that she turned it

13 over to Alberto and Alberto now is the current
14 custodian.
15 PROS. FERRER:
18 Is she not now in the better position to testify on the

19 documents that she had in her possession and in her
20 custody? Ask a friend. Go ahead. The issue is very
21 simple, Prosecutor Ferrer, documents were already
22 presented and testified on and stipulated actually on
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1 by Alberto, the current custodian. Okay? We are done
2 with those documents. It’s a matter of formally
3 offering them later. Alright?
4 PROS. FERRER:
5 Yes, Your Honor.
7 Now, included in the stipulation is that, the source

8 documents brought by Alberto are faithful
9 reproductions of the third set which were the
10 markings will be eventually transferred to, right?
11 PROS. FERRER:
12 Yes, Your Honor.
14 We are done with that, alright? You claimed that

15 there are still other documents which need to be
16 presented by Atty. Cagat-cagat which were not
17 covered by the testimony of Alberto. Alright? Okay.
18 Why do we just deal with this?
19 PROS. FERRER:
20 Your Honors, upon consultation (interrupted)
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1 Anyway, Atty. Cagat-cagat was the previous
2 custodian. Are you saying that these documents
3 which are now to be presented before this Court are
4 not officially turnover to Alberto? You are basically
5 reintroducing documents which were already
6 testified on and stipulated because of the fact that
7 they were imperfectly photocopied?
8 PROS. FERRER:
9 Your Honors, upon consultation with my other co-

10 Prosecutors, we will just be focusing on the
11 documents which were not identified by Alberto,
12 Your Honor.
14 Alright. So, you will be changing your position now.
15 PROS. FERRER:
16 Yes, Your Honor.
18 So, Atty. Cagat-cagat will just be merely testifying on

19 the documents which were not testified on by
20 Alberto.
21
22 PROS. FERRER:
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1 Yes, Your Honors.
3 Alright.
4 PROS. FERRER:
5 I want to be candid, Your Honor. In one of the

6 documents (interrupted)
7 ATTY. GARAY:
8 Your Honors.
10 Yes, Atty. Garay.
11 ATTY. GARAY:
12 Just an observation, Your Honor.
14 Go ahead.
15 ATTY. GARAY:
16 Does it mean that the custody of the entire documents

17 including those documents that will be identified now
18 by Atty. Cagat-cagat were not transferred to Alberto?
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1 Wait. I think Prosecutor Ferrer would be the better
2 person to answer that.
3 ATTY. GARAY:
4 Yes, Your Honor.
6 But if you raised it as an observation and

7 manifestation, the Court will take note of the
8 manifestation.
9 ATTY. GARAY:
10 Yes, Your Honor.
12 I think that was my question earlier. So, in other

13 words, it would appear that there are some
14 documents which were not turned over to Alberto by
15 Atty. Cagat-cagat.
16 ATTY. GARAY:
17 And until now, Atty. Cagat-cagat is in custody

18 (interrupted)
20 Even if she is no longer the custodian. Prosecutor

21 Ferrer, what do we do?
22 PROS. FERRER:
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1 Still, Your Honor, the comparison will only be with
2 respect to those who were not yet identify by Alberto,
3 Your Honors. However, we request for stipulation
4 whether the defense will admit that those certified
5 true copies identified by Alberto, Your Honors, the
6 source documents were also transferred to Atty.
7 Cagat-cagat to Alberto, Your Honor.
9 Okay. Alright.
10 PROS. FERRER:
11 So, that is our proposal.
13 So, in other words, the documents that were brought

14 that were testified to and stipulated on during the
15 testimony of Alberto were officially turned over by
16 Atty. Cagat-cagat.
17 PROS. FERRER:
18 Yes, Your Honor.
20 Are you willing to stipulate on that.
21 ATTY. GARAY:
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1 In that case, Your Honor, would the testimony of
2 Atty. Cagat-cagat be limited to the act of turnover of
3 the old files to Alberto? Is that what you are saying?
5 So, in other words, that will also be an additional to

6 her testimony?
7 ATTY. GARAY:
8 Yes, Your Honor. The testimony is to the fact that she

9 turned over everything to Alberto, otherwise, she is
10 testifying today as the custodian of the documents
11 which were not testified to Alberto.
12 PROS. FERRER:
13 As the previous custodian of the documents, one of

14 our proposal to the defense is that, that witness
15 Cagat-cagat has turned over the subject source
16 documents to her successor, Ms. Joana Mae Alberto,
17 who previously testified in these cases.
19 Yes, that is her answer to question 11. The entire

20 contents. Okay? Now you are saying that there are
21 some documents which were not turned over?
22 PROS. FERRER:
23 No, they are all turned over, Your Honors.

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2 They were all turned over.
3 PROS. FERRER:
4 Yes, Your Honors.
6 But why is it now that you are going to present

7 additional documents which were not brought by
8 Alberto?
9 PROS. FERRER:
10 Because, Your Honors, when we presented Alberto

11 and whistle blowers, it appears that there are some
12 other documents (interrupted)
14 Not in the custody of Alberto.
15 PROS. FERRER:
16 They were all in the custody of Alberto. It just so

17 happened that there are other documents that needed
18 to be presented and testified that will be used by our
19 main witness Benhur Luy. The documents are
20 voluminous.
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1 Yes they are voluminous.
2 PROS. FERRER:
3 And the other witness (interrupted)
5 Let us not talk about the other witness. Let’s talk

6 about these two (2). The relationship of Ms. Alberto
7 and Atty. Cagat-cagat. Let me simplify. Let us say
8 that there are ten (10) documents. You presented
9 these ten (10) documents before Alberto. Alright?
10 Because she is the current custodian. Now, the parties
11 agreed and stipulated that the photocopies are
12 faithful reproductions of the source documents
13 brought by Alberto. There is no testimony of Alberto
14 saying that I received all these ten (10) documents
15 from Atty. Cagat-cagat. There was none. She did not
16 testify on that. Would you agree? Now, you are going
17 to present Atty. Cagat-cagat. Okay? Now, you are
18 going to present the same ten (10) documents. Okay?
19 Which Atty. Cagat-cagat that she entirely transferred
20 it to Alberto. Would not Ms. Alberto be the better
21 person to testify on these documents? Because she is
22 now the current custodian. Aside from that, you will
23 be reintroducing the same ten (10) documents to be
24 testified on by another witness, when the issue is
25 custodianship. That’s all because there is no issue as
26 to whether or not Atty. Cagat-cagat or Alberto has
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1 personal knowledge of the contents on the
2 transactions involved in these cases. Alright. We are
3 now there. So, why will you introduce the same ten
4 (10) documents testified on by Alberto, unless you
5 want to treat the testimony of Atty. Cagat-cagat as
6 corroborative of Alberto. Alberto is the current
7 custodian. Alright? Second point. You are now saying
8 that there are other documents which were not
9 testified and brought by Alberto which will now be
10 testified to by Atty. Cagat-cagat. First issue there,
11 Atty. Cagat-cagat claims that she had already
12 transmitted all the entire documents. That actually
13 belies some issues on the testimony of Alberto. So,
14 since there are other documents presented by Alberto,
15 that means that there are some other documents not
16 turned over by Atty. Cagat-cagat to Alberto, correct?
17 Would you not agree to that?
18 PROS. FERRER:
19 With all due respect, Your Honors.
20
22 Because Alberto is the current custodian.
23 PROS. FERRER:
24 Your Honors, please (interrupted)
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2 Justice Moreno?
3 JUSTICE MORENO:
4 Let me ask you something. Prosecutor Ferrer, is that

5 on record, a turned over document showing that the
6 documents which used to be in the custody of Atty.
7 Cagat-cagat was now being turned over to Alberto?
8 PROS. FERRER:
9 According to Atty. Cagat-cagat, none.
10 JUSTICE MORENO:
11 None. Is there an office Order relieving Atty. Cagat-

12 cagat from being a custodian and designating Alberto
13 now, which according to you is the current custodian,
14 as the new custodian of the documents.
15 PROS. FERRER:
16 According to the witness, Your Honor, none.
17 JUSTICE MORENO:
18 So, how will you prove this? There was no release

19 Order relieving Cagat-cagat from being the custodian
20 and designating Alberto to be the new custodian of
21 these documents.
22 PROS. FERRER:
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1 May we hear from the witness, Your Honor? She is in
2 the better position to answer that.
3 JUSTICE MORENO:
4 Call a friend?
5 PROS. FERRER:
6 Sorry, Your Honors. According to the witness, Your

7 Honor, there is.
8 JUSTICE MORENO:
9 There is what?
10 PROS FERRER:
11 There is an Order, Your Honor.
12 JUSTICE MORENO:
13 There is an Order.
14
15 PROS. FERRER:
16 According to the witness, there is, Your Honor.
17 JUSTICE MORENO:
18 Okay. So, there is an Order designating Atty. Cagat-

19 cagat to be the custodian of these documents. Yes or
20 No?
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1 PROS. FERRER:
2 According to the witness, yes.
3 JUSTICE MORENO:
4 You can produce an office Order.
5 WITNESS:
6 Your Honor, if I may? When I was designated as the

7 custodian (interrupted)
8 JUSTICE MORENO:
9 Can you speak at the microphone? We can’t hear you.
10 WITNESS:
11 Good morning, Your Honors?
12 JUSTICE MORENO:
13 Good morning.
14 WITNESS:
15 When I was designated as an OIC, Your Honor, all

16 the documents for the Office of the Special
17 Prosecutor, Your Honor, including these documents
18 (interrupted)
19 JUSTICE MORENO:
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1 That office Order was very specific. It should be
2 under her custody of these documents.
3 WITNESS:
4 Not in this particular case, Your Honor, but in

5 general. Incidental to my duty.
6 JUSTICE MORENO:
7 And you have with you a copy of that Office Order.
8 WITNESS:
9 Yes, Your Honor. I have a copy of that. In fact, in one

10 of the case here, Belicena case, it was already
11 presented.
12 JUSTICE MORENO:
13 Okay. When you were relieved as the custodian of

14 these documents, was there an office Order issued in
15 your favor?
16 WITNESS:
17 Yes, Your Honor.
18 JUSTICE MORENO:
19 Per your knowledge, do you recall if you have seen a

20 copy of a designation Order in favor of Alberto, now
21 being designated as the new custodian, in lieu of the
22 previously cancelled designation in your favor?
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1 WITNESS:
2 Yes, Your Honor.
3 JUSTICE MORENO:
4 That’s it. It will settle everything. That allegedly,

5 when she was relieved, thus transferring the custody
6 of all the documents from Cagat-cagat to Alberto.
7 That could easily resolve the issue. And if you could
8 have produce the office Order, that’s it. Now, when
9 will you produce that office Order?
10 WITNESS:
11 I don’t have the office Order with me today, Your

12 Honor.
13 JUSTICE MORENO:
14 You don’t have or are you going to prepare one?

15 Gagawin pa lang?
16 WITNESS:
17 Your Honor, I have the office Order. (inaudible)
19 Can you approach the microphone please?
20 WITNESS:
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1 Your Honors, regarding the office Order, I have the
2 office Order but I did not bring it today.
3 JUSTICE MORENO:
4 But you were able to produce.
5 WITNESS:
6 I will be able to produce.
7 JUSTICE MORENO:
8 You turnover those office Orders to Prosecutor

9 Ferrer?
10 WITNESS:
11 Yes, Your Honor.
12 JUSTICE MORENO:
13 Thank you very much.
15 Yes, Madam Chair.
16 CHAIRPERSON:
17 Just a clarification, on the offer of the testimony on

18 paragraph 4, it says here that Atty. Cagat-cagat will
19 identify certified true copies of certain documents
20 which she issued as OIC of the records section. Now,
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1 the question is, will she be simply testify to the fact
2 that she issued this Certification?
3 PROS. FERRER:
4 Yes, Your Honors. She will just testified on the

5 certified true copies of the documents, Your Honors.
6 CHAIRPERSON:
7 Specifically, only with respect to the documents

8 mentioned in paragraph 4 on the offer of the
9 testimony.
10 PROS. FERRER:
11 We are about to come to that.
12 CHAIRPERSON:
13 Because there is already a specific markings in the

14 documents.
15 PROS. FERRER:
16 If I may, Your Honors? The problem, Your Honor, is,

17 the defense counsel, Atty. Tenefrancia don’t even
18 want to make comparison. It is better if we would
19 present the colored copies, Your Honor. It would be
20 easy to see them even the highlights, Your Honors.
21 CHAIRPERSON:
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1 In other words, you have to reproduce these
2 documents from what you have called colored and
3 almost perfect reproduction.
4 PROS. FERRER:
5 We have done it already, Your Honors.
6 CHAIRPERSON:
7 Again, she will be simply testifying on the fact that

8 she issued these certified true copies in her capacity
9 then as OIC of the records section. Correct?
10 PROS. FERRER:
11 Yes, Your Honors. To have in custody of the source

12 documents, by Atty. Cagat-cagat.
13 JUSTICE MORENO:
14 Last one. Is it my understanding, Prosecutor Ferrer,

15 you are calling Atty. Cagat-cagat to testify today, only
16 to attest to the fact that she was the one who certified
17 the photocopies coming from the source documents
18 in her capacity when she was still the acting custodian
19 of these documents.
20 PROS. FERRER:
21 That’s not only, Your Honors.
22 JUSTICE MORENO:
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1 What is the other one?
2 PROS. FERRER:
3 The custodian of the source documents, Your Honor.
4 JUSTICE MORENO:
5 She is going to testify nga today as custodian. She

6 certified the photocopy in her capacity as the acting
7 custodian at that time when she certify the
8 documents.
9 PROS. FERRER:
10 Your Honor, (interrupted)
11
12 JUSTICE MORENO:
13 At present, the custodian of the documents is Alberto.
14 PROS. FERRER:
16 JUSTICE MORENO:
17 As can be shown by the office Orders as mentioned

18 by Atty. Cagat-cagat. Correct?
19 PROS. FERRER:
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1 JUSTICE MORENO:
2 What is the confusion there?
3 PROS. FERRER:
4 The comparison of the documents. That is the issue,

5 Your Honor. They do not want to stipulate that the
6 certified copies are faithful reproduction (interrupted)
7 JUSTICE MORENO:
8 Prosecutor Ferrer, there is nothing under the rules

9 that will compel the adverse party from entering into
10 stipulation. If the defense does not want to stipulate,
11 all you have to do is to present the witness and prove
12 your case. Don’t compel the other party. Wala sa
13 rules. There is nothing in the rules that allows the
14 prosecution to compel the other party from entering
15 into any stipulations. You may call Atty. Cagat-cagat
16 and testify on whatever matter you wish her to prove
17 your case.
18 PROS. FERRER:
19 May I speak, Your Honors? But a while ago, Your

20 Honor, after photocopying the source documents
21 (inaudible) That is the reason why (inaudible)
22 (interrupted)
23 JUSTICE MORENO:
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1 Just call the witness and let her testify in Court and let
2 the defense counsel cross-examine her. She is a lawyer
3 I believe. Am I right?
5 Yes, she is a lawyer.
6 JUSTICE MORENO:
7 She is a lawyer. Let her testify.
8 PROS. FERRER:
9 Your Honor, may I turnover it to Prosecutor Nuñez?

10 She will be the one who will present the witness.
12 Go ahead. So, she will just testify on the certified true

13 copies that she issued.
14 ATTY. GARAY:
15 Your Honor, (interrupted)
17 Yes, Atty. Garay.
18 ATTY. GARAY:
19 This is precisely our objection, Your Honor.
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1 What?
2 ATTY. GARAY:
3 This is precisely our objection during the last hearing,

4 Your Honor. That the witness will be testifying on the
5 stamp marking in these documents, certified true
6 photocopy from the originals. We are now at the
7 situation that we will be comparing the source
8 documents brought by the witness and the new set
9 photocopied by Prosecutor Ferrer.
11 How will you answer that, Prosecutor Ferrer?
12 PROS. FERRER:
13 That is why, once and for all (interrupted)
15 That could be a subject of a cross-examination.

16 Alright. Let’s call the witness.
17 PROS. NUNEZ:
18 Good morning, Your Honors.
20 Good morning.
21 PROS. NUÑEZ:
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1 We are calling to the witness stand, Atty. Alma Cagat-
2 cagat.
4 Atty. Boco?
5 ATTY. BOCO:
6 May I belatedly enter my special appearance for

7 accused Espiritu also, Your Honor.
9 Alright. Noted. Thank you. Qualify the witness, Atty.

10 Jean.
11 EXECUTIVE CLERK OF COURT:
12 Atty. Cagat-cagat, kindly raise your right hand.
13 Q Ma’am, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole

14 truth, and nothing but the truth before the Honorable
15 Court?
16 A Yes I swear.
17 Q Ma’am, for the record, kindly state your full name?
18 A I am Atty. Alma Cagat-cagat, 42 years old, married

19 and currently employed at the Office of the
20 Ombudsman.
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1 Okay, you may sit down. Your witness, Prosecutor
2 Nuñez.
3 PROS. NUÑEZ:
4 Your Honor, before we proceed, may I make some

5 corrections in the Judicial Affidavit? On page 2, Your
6 Honor, the one marked as J-8 be changed to J-8-G 8. On
7 page 5, Your Honor, the second row of the table,
8 under question number 9, it should be J-8 to J-8-I 8.
9 Lastly, Your Honor, page 6, question number 11, it
10 should be calendar year 2007-2012 and not 2010, Your
11 Honor.
13 Okay. Make the necessary corrections. Prosecutor

14 Nuñez, just put your initials.
15 PROS. NUÑEZ:
18 Proceed.
19 PROS. NUNEZ:
20 Thank you, Your Honors.
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1 Your Honors, please, the offer of testimony of Atty.
2 Alma Cagat-cagat is already contained in her Judicial
3 Affidavit on pages 2-3 thereof, Your Honors.
5 Comment from the defense counsels? Hearing one.

6 Proceed, Prosecutor Nuñez.
7 PROS. NUÑEZ:
8 Good morning, ma’am.
9 Q Ma’am, do you recall having executed a Judicial

10 Affidavit in relation to these cases?
11 A Yes, ma’am.
12 PROS. NUÑEZ:
13 Q If a copy if shown to you, would you be able to

14 identify the same?
15 A Yes, ma’am.
16 Q Atty. Mark is showing to you now from the records of

17 the Court, a Judicial Affidavit consisting of eight (8)
18 pages. Kindly go over the same and tell the
19 Honorable Court, what is the relation of this
20 document being shown to you now to the Judicial
21 Affidavit you said you executed?
22 A Can you repeat the question, ma’am?
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1 Q What is the relation of that document being shown to
2 you now to the Judicial Affidavit you said you
3 executed? Is that the Judicial Affidavit you executed,
4 ma’am?
5 A Yes, ma’am. This is the Judicial Affidavit that I

6 executed.
7 Q Ma’am, may I invite your attention on page 6, on the

8 bottom portion, there appears a signature above the
9 printed name, Alma G. Cagat-cagat. Ma’am, whose
10 signature is that?
11 A This is my signature, ma’am.
12 PROS. NUÑEZ:
13 Q Ma’am, do you affirm and confirm the truthfulness

14 and veracity of your Judicial Affidavit, ma’am?
15 A Yes, ma’am.
16 PROS. NUÑEZ:
17 Your Honors, please, may I respectfully move that the

18 Judicial Affidavit of Atty. Cagat-cagat be considered
19 as her direct testimony, Your Honors? She is now
20 ready for cross, Your Honors.
22 Alright. Cross-examination. We will go down the line.

23 Any cross, Atty. Tenefrancia?
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2 Yes, Your Honor.
4 Go ahead.
6 Good morning.
7 WITNESS:
8 Good morning, sir.
10 Q You bring the original source documents?
11 A Yes, sir, but I forwarded it to Prosecutor Nuñez for

12 this purpose, for the hearing.
13 Q You have it with you now?
14 A The original was not here with me. It is with

15 Prosecutor Nuñez.
17 Please provide the witness with the source

18 documents.
19 PROS. NUÑEZ:
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1 May I handed it over to the witness the source
2 documents?
4 Your question, Atty. Tenefrancia.
6 Q That is a very thick file, is it not?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 Q It is a file our source documents, they are similar to

9 each other. The same are correct.
10 PROS. NUÑEZ:
11 Your Honor, please. The question is vague, Your

12 Honor.
14 Let me rephrase it.
15 Q Which take the first document? Do you have it with

16 you now?
17 A I have with me the documents which entitled Cash

18 from December 29, 2016.
19 Q That is the title?
20 A For a while.
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1 Q Okay. There is no signature of the persons who are
2 supposed to have prepared that document, is that
3 correct?
4 PROS. NUÑEZ:
5 Objection, Your Honors, the document will speak for

6 themselves, Your Honors.
8 Sustained, Atty. Tenefrancia.
11 Q The document, the first document has a title “JLN

12 Cash/Check Disbursement, is that correct?
13 PROS. NUÑEZ:
14 Your Honor, may we know what document is the

15 defense counsel referring to?
17 Do you have the exhibit number, Atty. Tenefrancia?
19 There are two (2) exhibit numbers, Your Honors. The

20 first exhibit number is Exhibit “AA”, page 1 of 129
21 pages, July 31, 2014 of the First Division of the
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1 Sandiganbayan. And the second identifying number
2 is Exhibit “J-8-a” with the signature where there is no
3 indication of any date or indication of which division
4 of the Sandiganbayan this was made.
6 Do you have the documents, Ms. Witness?
7 WITNESS:
8 Yes. I have the documents 2007 and 2008 which is the

9 Check Disbursement.
11 Prosecutor Ferrer, would you assist your witness,

12 please. Would you help the witness?
13 PROS. FERRER:
14 Yes, Your Honor.
16 Do you have with you the document referred by Atty.

17 Tenefrancia?
18 PROS. NUÑEZ:
19 Yes, Your Honor.
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1 Show it to the witness, so, we will not take time. Is it
2 with you now, Ms. Witness?
3 WITNESS:
4 Yes, Your Honor.
6 What is the answer?
7 WITNESS:
8 Sir, will you please repeat the question?
10 I will repeat the question.
11 Q As you are looking to the same document, there is a

12 document entitled JLN Cash/Check Disbursement,
13 January 02-04, 2007. On the top right most portion,
14 there is a stamp marking, Exhibit “AA”, page 1 of 109,
15 July 31, 2014, Sandiganbayan 1st Division. There is
16 another marking, handwritten marking, J-8-a, an
17 eligible signature but no date. And in the bottom is
18 the Certification, certified photocopy from original,
19 Atty. Alma Cagat-cagat. Are you looking now at the
20 same document?
21 A Yes, sir. I have it with me.
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1 Q Do you have the original or the source copy of these
2 documents with you now?
3 A Yes I have it with me also.
4 Q You have with you the source documents which you

5 have now, does not have your Certification, is that
6 correct?
7 A Yes, sir.
11 Q No Certification from you?
12 A Yes, sir.
13 Q But there is a stamp marking of the First Division of

14 the Sandiganbayan of Exhibit “AA”, page 1 of several
15 pages, is that correct?
16 PROS. NUÑEZ:
17 Objection, Your Honor. The documents will speak for

18 themselves.
20 Let the witness answer.
21 PROS. NUÑEZ:
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1 We submit, Your Honor.
2 WITNESS:
3 A Yes, sir.
5 Atty. Tenefrancia, the answer of the witness is “Yes,

6 sir”.
8 Q My next question is, at the top, a marking from the

9 First Division of the Sandiganbayan, Exhibit “AA”,
10 page 1 of 109 pages, if that is correct. July 31, 2014, is
11 that correct?
12 WITNESS:
13 A It is correct, sir.
15 Q There is no marking in that source document of J-8-a

16 are signatures.
17 PROS. NUÑEZ:
18 Your Honor, the document will speak for itself, Your

19 Honor.
21 What is your point, Atty. Tenefrancia? Go to your

22 point directly.
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2 Our point, Your Honor, is when Alberto testified,

3 there is a certified true copy of the source documents,
4 it is not really correct. Because these documents
5 certified by Alberto does not have the Certification of
6 Atty. Cagat-cagat which is here now, does not have
7 the marking of J-8-a and the signature.
10 The Court notes the manifestation. Go to another

11 point.
13 Yes.
14 If you go over all the documents, more than 100

15 pages, that you have with you now, there is the same
16 observation. 1. That while your source documents
17 does not have your Certification at the bottom and it
18 does not have J-8-a or whatever corresponds the
19 document. The same observation that we have read of
20 the first document also appear in the other document
21 that follows.
23 Will you confirm that, Prosecutor Nuñez.
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2 So, we do not have to go to them one by one.
4 Do you confirm this, Prosecutor Nuñez?
5 PROS. NUÑEZ:
6 Yes, Your Honor.
8 Confirmed.
10 When the prosecution ask that these markings be

11 transferred, we request that the marking shall be
12 made in open Court. The fact that it will be reflected,
13 these new markings are made not in 2014 but at this
14 time and in our presence.
16 Alright.
18 You would agree on that matter.
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1 Duly noted, Atty. Tenefrancia. Continue with cross-
2 examination.
4 That will be all.
6 Okay. For accused Relampagos, Atty. Alegro?
8 ATTY. ALEGRO:
9 No cross, Your Honor.
11 For accused Nuñez, Paule and Bare, Atty. Luna?
12 ATTY. LUNA:
13 For accused Nuñez, Paule and Bare, no cross, Your

14 Honor.
16 No cross also. For accused Dennis Cunanan, Atty.

17 Boco?
18 ATTY. BOCO:
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1 No cross. For accused Janet Lim Napoles, Atty.
2 Garay?
3 ATTY. GARAY:
4 Yes, Your Honor. I have some cross-examination.
6 Okay. Proceed.
7 ATTY. GARAY:
8 Q Ms. Witness, can I direct your attention in Exhibit “J-

9 9” which entitled JLN Cash/Check Disbursement,
10 October 2, 2008. Because this question will be the
11 same in all DDRs. I will be limiting my questions to
12 this DDR.
13 WITNESS:
14 “J-9”.
15 ATTY. GARAY:
16 “J-9”.
17 WITNESS:
18 A Yes, sir.
19 ATTY. GARAY:
20 Q Ms. Witness, you are here to testify that during the

21 time that you were the OIC custodian of this
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1 document, you stamp this document with the
2 Certification that reads “certified true photocopy
3 from originals”, is that correct?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 ATTY. GARAY:
6 Q Can you tell us, Ms. Witness, what do you

7 understand between the original and the photocopy?
8 WITNESS:
9 A Sir, at the time that I certify this document, I compare

10 it with the original. Like this, this is the original. At
11 the time that I duly signed per page, I compare this in
12 this document.
13 ATTY. GARAY:
14 Q In this particular document, Ms. Witness, do you

15 confirm that there is a portion here that states here
16 prepared by, James, checked by and JLN approved
17 by?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q Now, in relation to the markings, to the notations in

20 this document, these documents are supposed to be
21 signed by the persons appearing therein. Will you tell
22 us now your understanding between a photocopy
23 and an original of this particular document?
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1 A Am I correct to understand that your premise, that
2 there are no signatures so that these are not originals?
3 Q No. I am asking you your understanding between a

4 photocopy and the original in relation to this
5 document, wherein there are portions therein that
6 need to be signed by the people whose names are
7 indicated in those documents?
8 WITNESS:
9 A In my understanding of the original, particularly

10 pertaining to this document, it is in my perception
11 that this document, this original and the one that I
12 signed with my Certification is the photocopy.
13 ATTY. GARAY:
14 Q In short, Ms. Witness, what you are saying is, you

15 considered this document as an original even they are
16 not signed?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Are you familiar with a portable document format file

19 or a PDF file?
20 A Yes.
21 Q A PDF file is an exact copy of the original document

22 so that the document appears to be signed when it is
23 scanned and converted with a PDF file, then the
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1 entire contents of the document will be captured. Is
2 this a PDF file?
3 A I cannot answer that question.
4 Q Are you also familiar with the Joint Photographic

5 Experts Group of JPEG file, which is actually a picture
6 of a document that contains all the essential contents
7 of the document?
8 PROS. NUÑEZ:
9 Objection, Your Honors (interrupted)
10 ATTY. GARAY:
11 I am just asking.
12 PROS. NUÑEZ:
13 Your Honors (interrupted)
15 Wait a minute. Was there an objection?
16 PROS. NUÑEZ:
17 That is already irrelevant to these cases, Your Honors.

18 The witness just certified the physical copy of the
19 documents. As to the JPEG or PDF, I think it’s already
20 irrelevant.
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1 If she knows.
2 ATTY. GARAY:
3 Q Is this a JPEG copy?
6 Do you know if that is a JPEG copy?
7 WITNESS:
8 A I have no idea. I am not familiar with the term.
9 ATTY. GARAY:
10 Q So, why did you certify a document as a photocopy

11 from the originals if you examined the document and
12 noticed that they are not signed by the people
13 indicated therein who are supposed to sign the same?
14 PROS. NUÑEZ:
15 Objection, Your Honors, that is already

16 argumentative. The witness already answered that
17 she considered the document original, Your Honors.
19 Sustained.
20 ATTY. GARAY:
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1 Q You considered the document originals whether
2 signed or not?
3 PROS. NUÑEZ:
4 Already answered.
6 That was already answered.
7 ATTY. GARAY:
8 That will be all, Your Honor.
10 Okay. For accused Encarnacion, De Leon and Cabilao,

11 Atty. Muñez?
12 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
13 Few questions, Your Honors.
15 Alright.
16 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
17 Q Madam Witness, for the record, as you are testifying

18 now, you confirm that you are no longer the
19 custodian of the documents that you are testifying
20 on?
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1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Since when?
3 A I turned over all the documents in my custody as OIC

4 in 2007.
5 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
6 Q Would you know the particular date?
7 A The office Order was dated December 8 and there was

8 a one month turnover. I think it is first week of
9 January 2007.
10 Q Earlier, Madam Witness, you testified that you have

11 document to present regarding the said turnover of
12 documents to your successor?
13 A I did not bring it with me.
14 Q In fact, you also testified as clarified by Justice

15 Moreno that you also have no copy of the office Order
16 or memorandum designating the custodian of these
17 documents?
18 PROS. NUÑEZ:
19 Objection, Your Honor. That is misleading. Witness

20 testified that she does not have the copy today.
21 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
22 That is my question.
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1 WITNESS:
2 A Yes, I have no copy with me.
4 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
5 Q And it is also very clear and you will admit, Ms.

6 Witness, that you have no personal knowledge as to
7 the alleged certified true copies of source documents
8 certified by certain Joanna Mae Alberto (interrupted)
9 PROS. NUÑEZ:
10 Your Honors, may we request the good counsel to

11 repeat the question?
13 Repeat the question.
14 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
15 Q My question, Madam Witness, you would confirm for

16 the record that you have no personal knowledge as to
17 the alleged certified true copies of source document
18 which were certified by a certain Joanna Mae Alberto?
19 You have no personal knowledge.
20 PROS. NUÑEZ:
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1 Your Honors, the question is improper, Your Honor.
2 He cannot confront the witness on the testimony of
3 another witness, Your Honor.
6 The answer is just simple, whether he has no personal

7 knowledge of the Certification made by Alberto.
8 Witness may answer.
9 WITNESS:
10 A I have no knowledge, Your Honor.
11 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
12 Q And also, Madam Witness, you have no personal

13 knowledge as to the ordinance or source of this
14 alleged source documents that were previously in
15 your custody?
16 PROS. NUÑEZ:
17 Your Honors, may we be clarified what the counsel

18 mean by the word “ordinance”?
20 You reform the question.
21 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
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1 Q You will confirm, Ms. Witness, that this alleged
2 source documents which were previously in your
3 custody, you have no personal knowledge of the
4 source or the ordinance of this alleged source
5 documents. You merely had custody when you
6 assumed?
7 WITNESS:
8 A Yes, sir.
9 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
10 Q You would agree with me that the alleged source

11 documents are clear to your eyes that they are just
12 mere photocopies?
13 PROS. NUÑEZ:
14 Objection, Your Honor, that is misleading, Your

15 Honors.
17 Sustained.
18 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
19 There was a question earlier if this was a JPEG and

20 she said, Your Honor, she is not familiar. That is
21 why, I am just asking for her personal observation,
22 Your Honor, if that source document (interrupted)
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2 All the source documents that previously she had

3 custody of?
4 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
5 Yes, Your Honor. They are just photocopies, Your

6 Honor.
8 The Court will allow. Witness may answer. So, are all
9 the source documents you previously had custody of,
10 are they all photocopies?
11 WITNESS:
12 A No, sir. They are originals as I cited in my

13 Certification that I certified it as a photocopy from the
14 original, I considered the source documents that were
15 at my custody before, and they were all originals.
16 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
17 Q But how can you testify and affirm, that those copies,
18 original copies when you earlier stated that you have
19 no knowledge as to that source documents, you have
20 no personal knowledge as to the printing of those
21 documents, Madam Witness.
22 PROS. NUÑEZ:
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1 Objection, Your Honor. The question is
2 argumentative, Your Honors.
5 Sustained.
6 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
7 Q Where you there when the documents were printed

8 or reproduced the source documents, Madam
9 Witness?
10 A No, sir.
11 Q So, you just received it when assumed the office?
12 A Yes, sir.
13 Q From whom did you receive it?
14 A I received the documents from the panel of the

15 prosecutors who appeared in the first division,
16 Revilla case. These documents, if I recall it
17 correctly, these documents were withdrawn or taken
18 from the records of the first division through the
19 resolution of the Court, allowing the prosecution to
20 substitute the original documents and they provided
21 the photocopy, remarking the documents. That is
22 how I understand it as I received documents from the
23 panel of the prosecutors Revilla case, sir.
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1 Q So, that is just your understanding. Because actually,
2 you are not present when those proceedings were
3 already, those proceedings as you stated now, were
4 allegedly done. As you have stated earlier, you just
5 assumed custody when you assumed the position. Is
6 that correct?
7 PROS. NUÑEZ:
8 Objection, Your Honor, that is an argumentative

9 question.
11 Sustained.
12 PROS. NUÑEZ:
13 May we request the good counsel (interrupted)
15 The objection is sustained. Go to another point.
16 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
17 Q Now, would you confirm, Madam Witness, that you

18 have no participation or whatsoever when these
19 documents were allegedly transferred (interrupted)
20 PROS. NUÑEZ:
21 Your Honor (interrupted)
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1
3 Let him finish the question.
4 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
5 (cont.) from the investigators?
6 PROS. NUÑEZ:
7 Objection, Your Honor. I have two (2) objections,

8 Your Honors. First, the question is misleading.
9 Because the witness already stated that the
10 documents were turnover of the panel of prosecutors
11 not investigators, Your Honors.
13 That’s the source of the documents, the panel of

14 prosecutors.
15 PROS. NUÑEZ:
16 Not investigators, Your Honors.
18 Which presented them in the first division.
19 PROS. NUÑEZ:
20 Yes, Your Honors, in the Revilla case.
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1
3 That is the source.
4 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
5 That is my question, Your Honor. The turnover of

6 these documents from panel of investigators.
8 Prosecutors.
9 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
10 (cont.) Prosecutors, Your Honor, the witness has no

11 personal knowledge. She had assumed custody, Your
12 Honor.
14 Answer.
15 WITNESS:
16 A As to the fact that this was withdrawn, that this was

17 taken from, I have no personal knowledge. But I was
18 able to read through the resolution of the Court when
19 this was transferred to me because I also asked
20 questions why these documents were transferred to
21 me. As incidental to my duty as OIC, I just receive it,
22 sir.
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1 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
2 Q You just receive it?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
5 That is all for the witness, Your Honor.
7 For accused Espiritu, Atty. Boco?
8 ATTY. BOCO:
11 No cross also. Atty. Muñez, you cross-examination

12 pertains also to accused Encarnacion, De Leon and
13 Cabilao?
14 ATTY. MUÑEZ:
15 Yes, Your Honor.
17 Did I missed anybody? For accused Lacsamana?
18 ATTY. MARAMAG:
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2 No cross also. Anymore? No more. Any redirect?
3 PROS. NUÑEZ:
4 Yes, Your Honors.
6 Proceed.
7 PROS. NUÑEZ:
8 Q Just to clarify, Atty. Alma, when you were assumed

9 as an OIC, you turned over the documents in 2007.
10 You have a copy of your Judicial Affidavit, ma’am. In
11 question number 11, you said that the turnover was
12 done in 2017. So, which is correct, ma’am, 2007 or
13 2017?
14 A The exact turnover was first of 2017, ma’am.
15 PROS. NUÑEZ:
16 Thank you, ma’am. Nothing further, Your Honor.
18 Recross from anybody? None. Questions from the

19 Court? Justice Moreno. Atty. Boco.
20
21 ATTY. BOCO:
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1 Q Madam Witness, do you have any documentation
2 to the effect of this turnover to Alberto?
3 PROS. NUÑEZ:
4 Your Honors, in response to the question of Justice

5 Moreno, she already stated that she had the office
6 Order but she was not able to bring it today, Your
7 Honor.
8 ATTY. BOCO:
9 Yes, Your Honor. The witness is already testifying

10 right now in her Judicial Affidavit. Earlier, there was
11 no mentioned of that until Justice Moreno asked that
12 (interrupted)
14 Okay. The Court will allow. Can we have the question

15 again?
16 ATTY. BOCO:
17 Q Do you have any document documenting the

18 turnover from you to Alberto?
19 A The turnover between me and Ms. Alberto was the

20 office Order, me relieving from my duty and she
21 assuming the duties as OIC of the records division of
22 the Office of the Special Prosecutor. Its incidental to
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1 that, I turned over the key to her. The key of the
2 cabinets to her.
3 ATTY. BOCO:
4 Q Yes, ma’am. Is this document attached to your

5 Judicial Affidavit?
6 A No, ma’am. It was not mentioned in the Judicial

7 Affidavit.
8 ATTY. BOCO:
9 I have no further questions, Your Honor.
11 Okay. Thank you. Justice Moreno?
12 JUSTICE MORENO:
13 Thank you, sir.
14 Good morning, Madam Witness.
15 WITNESS:
16 Good morning, Your Honor.
17 JUSTICE MORENO:
18 Q As you have admitted in your Judicial Affidavit, you

19 were then the custodian of the proper documents of
20 the PDAF cases?
21 WITNESS:
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1 A Yes, Your Honor.
2 JUSTICE MORENO:
3 Q And you took custody of the original documents?
5 Q I would suppose.
7 Q Now, just if you are aware, why do you need to issue

8 certified copies when the original is available?
9 A Your Honor, as I understand, this particular

10 document, I made it in several cases involving the
11 testimony of Benhur. The reason why the original
12 should be kept, in order for the other division or other
13 panel of prosecutors to present it to the Court as well.
14 So, the original must be kept by the custodian.
15 Q Must be retained to the custodian.
17 Q Is there an office Order to that effect?
18 A None, Your Honor.
19 Q So, it was just your practice that the originals should

20 not leave the office?
21 WITNESS:
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1 A It was only brought out during these criminal cases
2 when the panel realized that there are originals
3 retained for the further use of other cases involving
4 the testimony of the same witnesses.
5 JUSTICE MORENO:
6 Q Okay. It was just upon the recommendation of the

7 panel of prosecutors or it was your decision?
8 A I was with them when it was discussed by the panel

9 but it was not recorded. The decision and the
10 discussion was not recorded.
11 Q So, you had a discussion with the panel of the

12 prosecutors. You must have been an idea where these
13 documents originated?
14 A As to that extent, I have no idea.
15 Q You are not oriented as to how these documents

16 made in existence?
17 A As to that extent, Your Honor, I have no idea.
18 Q Will you agree with me that your source documents,

19 you referred to them as your source documents are
20 printouts?
21 A I know that it is printout, Your Honor.
22 JUSTICE MORENO:
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1 Q Will you agree with me that the source documents of
2 your originals would be coming from a computer, a
3 USB or data processor?
4 A I also understand, Your Honor.
5 Q The source of your printout does not necessarily an

6 original because the original is either in USB or the
7 data from the computer was kept or it could have
8 been inside the data processing system, correct?
10 Q But they are considered originals under the new

11 amended rules of evidence wherein printouts are now
12 deemed to be originals.
13 A Yes, Your Honor. I also understand.
14 Q That is the reason why most likely, that your source is

15 an original?
17 JUSTICE MORENO:
18 I brought this up, I would like to pose this question to

19 the prosecution. If Benhur Luy will be presented as
20 witness, will you be presenting the USB or the
21 computer itself? This could probably explain the fact
22 why there were no signatures in the document,
23 correct? Because these are merely printouts.
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1 PROS. NUÑEZ:
2 Your Honor, may Prosecutor Ferrer be allowed to

3 answer that question? Because he is in charge of
4 conferring with Benhur Luy. Because if you are
5 talking about USB, being the source of the document,
6 USB is an object evidence then it is transferred to a
7 documental evidence by the printouts, correct? Will
8 you agree with me? Mental calisthenics in the rules of
9 evidence.
10 PROS. NUÑEZ:
11 Yes, Your Honor.
13 He will be testifying most likely.
14 PROS. NUÑEZ:
15 Yes, Your Honor.
17 Q Next question, Madam Witness, did you come to

18 know who printed the documents?
19 A I hear about it but it was not present, Your Honor.
20 JUSTICE MORENO:
21 Q Here is the thing. If it is came from a USB or data

22 processing system or the computer, if you had the
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1 printouts, as you have said, and the printouts you
2 have been kept at your office, why did not the Office
3 of the Ombudsman made several printouts? So, that
4 they are all originals. We just have seven (7) divisions.
5 Had the Office of the Ombudsman printed out seven
6 (7) copies, so that, all divisions have original copies of
7 these source documents.
8 A It would have been nice, Your Honor.
9 JUSTICE MORENO:
10 Imagine, you had the printout so, you don’t need the
11 photocopy. Pareho lang e. Bakit hindi mo na lang i-
12 printout sana there is no dispute. Para what will the
13 prosecution will present every time are originals.
14 Correct? It could have been the most prudent thing
15 that Office of the Ombudsman could do.
16 PROS. NUÑEZ:
17 May we be clarified what is the question, Your

18 Honor?
19
20
21 JUSTICE MORENO:
22 Yes, I said, these are mere printouts as admitted by

23 the witness. The source of the printouts either USB or
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1 the computer which is the real source of these
2 printouts. And she said and as admitted by her, that
3 the originals referring to the printouts not necessarily
4 the source or the primary source which is the data in
5 the computer should be kept at her office.
6 PROS. NUÑEZ:
7 Yes, Your Honor.
8 JUSTICE MORENO:
9 I said and I suggested, instead of having them

10 photocopied, they should have been including you,
11 because you belong to the Office of the Ombudsman,
12 you should have printed copies of these documents,
13 na ang lahat ng division, mayroong originals of these
14 printouts. So, there is no need for the custodian to
15 keep on certifying these documents.
16 PROS. NUÑEZ:
17 Yes, Your Honor, We don’t have the hard drive. It is

18 with the NBI. It has to be submitted for forensic
19 examination. I don’t know the exact term, Your
20 Honor.
21 JUSTICE MORENO:
22 I will not agree with you. You know why?
23 PROS. NUÑEZ:
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1 Why, Your Honor?
2 JUSTICE MORENO:
3 The panel of the prosecutors was able to have the

4 printouts. This was not the printouts?
5 PROS. NUÑEZ:
6 These were already printed prior to the submission of

7 the hard drive to the NBI.
8 JUSTICE MORENO:
9 So, these are printouts of Benhur Luy, prior to the NBI

10 having custody of his computer.
11 PROS. NUÑEZ:
12 For forensic examination.
13 JUSTICE MORENO:
14 The forensic examination has already been done.

15 Hanggang ngayon hindi pa din tapos?
16 PROS. NUÑEZ:
17 I don’t know the status, Your Honor, of the

18 examination.
19 JUSTICE MORENO:
20 Hindi niyo alam ano na ang nangyari?
21 PROS. NUÑEZ:
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1 We do not inquire the status, Your Honor.
2 JUSTICE MORENO:
3 That is all Justice Fernandez. Thank you, Madam

4 Witness.
5 ATTY. GARAY:
6 Your Honor.
8 Yes, Atty. Garay.
9 ATTY. GARAY:
10 For the information of the Honorable Court,

11 according to Benhur Luy when I cross-examined him
12 in the Valencia case, there were two (2) instances that
13 this hard disk driver was presented. During the NBI
14 investigation and in 5th Division in People versus
15 Estrada. So, it is possible to print it out before the
16 Honorable Court if there is an Order coming from the
17 Honorable Court to printout the contents of the hard
18 drive for everybody.
20 Alright. Noted. Just a few questions, Atty. Cagat-

21 cagat.
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1 Q When you turned over the records to Alberto, did you
2 conduct any inventory of the contents of the locked
3 cabinets?
4 A Your Honor, we have an inventory but we do not

5 convert it into writing to the details because it has
6 voluminous documents, Your Honor.
7 Q When you say it was not detailed, what do you mean

8 by that?
9 A Meaning the usual inventory, the custody, this

10 particular folder.
11 Q Not the individual reference.
13 Q When you take a look at the documents, the source

14 documents now, there were highlighted portions?
15 A I observed that there are highlights.
16 Q Would you know who highlighted them?
17 A When I certified them, there were no highlights.
18 Q Would you know who might have highlighted this?
19 WITNESS:
20 A I have no idea.
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1 Q That means, when you received these documents, you
2 saw highlighted portions?
3 A There was no (interrupted)
4 Q There is no highlighted portions.
5 A As far as I recall, Your Honor, there were no

6 highlights.
7 Q But there is an allegation that there are highlighted

8 portions. That is why they have to be photocopied
9 again.
10 A As I can see it now, Your Honor, there are highlights.
11 Q When you received these documents, did go over

12 them individually?
14 Q Did you see highlighted portions?
15 A As far as I can recall none.
16 Q But while they were in your custody, were these

17 documents brought out?
18 WITNESS:
19 A When I was the OIC, my practice is, one of the clerk

20 from the records division could bring the documents
21 in Court.
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2 Q So, that’s it?
3 A That’s it.
4 Q After they used it, they will return it to you?
5 A The same Clerk will be bringing back the documents

6 or records to our office.
7 Q Who has access to the locked cabinets other than the

8 custodian?
9 A I am the one who has access.
10 Q You do not have a counterpart?
11 A None.
12 Q You were the only holder of the keys to these locked

13 cabinets?
15 Q So, it cannot open if you were absent or on leave?
16
17 WITNESS:
18 A Yes, Your Honor. Because at that time, there were

19 prescheduled hearing for the PDAF.
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1 Q So, you only opened them and get a particular record
2 when they are requested or when there was a hearing
3 for tomorrow or instance?
5 Q And you personally bring them in again and locked

6 the cabinets?
7 A I have assigned personnel to bring the documents in

8 Court and to bring it back after the hearing.
9 Q You must have a recording system also of documents

10 brought out and in?
11 A None, Your Honor.
12 Q So, isauli mo na lang ito. Ganun? Is that how the

13 custodian works?
14 A Your Honor, as long as the person assigned referring

15 to me that the hearing is done, the documents will be
16 returned. That’s it.
17
19 Q They just returned it. They do not record.
20 A We do not record.
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1 Thank you, Atty. Cagat-cagat.
2 WITNESS:
3 Thank you, Your Honor.
5 Prosecutor Nuñez, anymore?
6 PROS. NUÑEZ:
7 For today, Your Honor, we have no other witness.

8 For next week, Your Honors, we will be presenting
9 Atty. RJ A. Bernal from the Securities and Exchange
10 Commission (SEC).
12 So, that will be May 5.
13 PROS. NUÑEZ:
14 Yes, Your Honor.
15
17 Judicial Affidavit, ready?
18 PROS. NUÑEZ:
19 We already filed the Judicial Affidavit, Your Honor.
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1 Have you receive counsels copy of the Judicial
2 Affidavit of Mr. Bernal from the Securities and
3 Exchange Commission (SEC)? Silence means yes.
4 ORDER:
5 When these cases were called for trial, Prosecutors
6 Joselito Ferrer, Joan Paulette D. Nuñez, Julieta Zinnia
7 A. Niduaza and Maria Rizza S. Ferrer-Mendoza
8 appeared for the prosecution. The following counsels
9 appeared for their respective clients: Atty. Edilberto
10 Tenefrancia for accused Erwin Dangwa; Atty. Teodoro
11 C. Alegro, Jr. for accused Mario Loquellano
12 Relampagos; Atty. Hans Roger S. Luna for accused
13 Nuñez, Paule and Bare; Atty. Iryl Boco for accused
14 Dennis L. Cunanan and special appearance for accused
15 Jover, Buenaventura and Espiritu; Atty. Rony A. Garay
16 for accused Janet Lim Napoles; and, Atty. Franciso
17 Muñez for accused De Leon and Cabilao.
18 Prosecution called to the witness stand Atty. Alma C.

19 Cagat-Cagat who was able to complete and terminate
20 her testimony. Her direct testimony is by way of her
21 sworn Judicial Affidavit dated April 20, 2022. There
22 being no other witnesses for the prosecution for today,
23 reset trial to May 5, 12. 19, 26, 2022 and every
24 Thursdays thereafter, all at 8:30 o’clock in the morning.
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1 Atty. Alma C. Cagat-Cagat is hereby directed to
2 furnish this Court with the Office Order relieving her
3 as OIC and appointing Ms. Alberto as the records
4 officer or custodian of documents within three (3) days
5 from today.
6 This Court noted the presence of Atty. Muñez today.

7 He explained that he intended to withdraw as counsel
8 for accused de Leon, Cabilao and Encarnacion, hence,
9 his absence in the last trial dates. However, after
10 conferring with these accused, Atty. Muñez agreed to
11 continue representing them. The explanation of Atty.
12 Muñoz is duly noted and accepted.
13
14 SO ORDERED.
15
16 X xxxxxxxxx End of TSN xxxxxxxxX
17
18
19 CERTIFICATION
20
21 I hereby certify
22 that the foregoing transcript of stenographic
23 notes are true and correct to the best of my
24 knowledge and ability.
25
26 ANJHO A. BERNABE
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2 Court Stenographer IV
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1

2 REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES

5 - versus - CASES NOS. SB-15-CRM-

7 For: Violation of Sec. 3(e) of

17 - versus - CASES NOS. SB-15-CRM-

27 - versus - CASES NOS. SB-15-CRM-

38 For the Plaintiff:

15 Criminal Case No. SB-15-CRM-0037-0053, People of

20 Alright. For the prosecution first.

22 Good morning, Your Honors. Prosecutors Niduaza,

3 For accused Erwin Dangwa?

5 Good morning, Your Honor. Respectfully

8 For accused Relampagos.

10 Good morning, Your Honor. Same appearance for

13 Alright. For accused Nuñez, Paule and Bare?

15 Good morning, Your Honors.

17 I cannot hear you, Atty. Luna. There’s something

5 Okay. For accused Dennis Cunanan.

7 Good morning, Your Honors. Same appearance for

10 Alright. For accused Janet Lim Napoles.

12 Good morning, Your Honors. Atty. Rony A. Garay,

15 Okay. For accused Lacsamana?

17 Good morning, Your Honors. Atty. Cherry Mae

9 Your Honors, special appearance for accused Jover.

11 Only for accused Jover?

13 And Buenaventura, Your Honor.

15 Special appearance for accused Jover and

18 Yes, Your Honor.

20 For accused Encarnacion, De Leon and Cabilao?

4 Good morning, Your Honors. Atty. Franciso

8 You are back, Atty. Muñez.

10 Hopefully, Your Honor.

12 If you are absent today, it is already three (3) strikes,

16 May I be allowed, Your Honor?

4 For these accused.

6 For all the cases filed before the Sandiganbayan.

15 Yes, Your Honor.

17 Alright. Okay. Prosecution.

8 During the last hearing, Your Honor, we are

11 Wait, so we will not be confused. You will be

14 For today’s hearing.

16 Yes. She has documents brought.

18 She has, Your Honor.

4 Yes, Your Honors.

6 And in the custody of Atty. Cagat-cagat.

8 Yes, Your Honor. May I continue, Your Honor?

12 Upon agreement by the prosecution and the defense

18 Actually, it was not upon the agreement of the

6 What I did, Your Honor, is, I have to photocopy the

19 And the fourth set, the new colored photocopies of

22 Which are almost perfect.

2 Yes, Your Honors. Actually, Your Honor, earlier, we

9 The Court appreciates your effort, Prosecutor Ferrer,

12 Yes, Your Honors.

16 Thereafter, Your Honors, I proposed to them a while

21 For the year 2007.

5 Wait a minute, Prosecutor Ferrer, before we consider

11 Yes, Your Honor.

13 The question is, after you issued a certified photocopy

23 Yes, Your Honor.

2 Alright. Just a clarification, are the documents that

7 Yes, Your Honors. She testified only on the selected