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The seven trumpets of Revelation

Issues in the interpretation of the seven

trumpets of Revelation
When we examine this prophecy from our historical moment, we should realize that some elements have been
fulfilled while others are in the process of fulfillment.

HOME ARCHIVES 2012 JANUARY THE SEVEN TRUMPETS OF REVELATION Ángel Manuel Rodríguez,
ThD, is the recently retired
director of the Biblical
Research Institute, Silver
Spring, Maryland, United States.
visionary cycle of Revelation that has proven to be one of the

A
most difficult to interpret is Revelation 8–11, the seven
trumpets. The language and imagery are complex; and its LISTEN
application to specific historical events has resulted in a
variety of views. This interpretational uncertainty could be
confusing to church members and those interested in finding
in this apocalyptic prophecy one clear and final JANUARY 2012 Download PDF
interpretation. At the present time such a final interpretation is not available.
Perhaps the question we should address is, What can be done to avoid transforming
this diversity of opinions into an internal theological struggle? Let me suggest two
things. First, we should ask the Lord to strengthen our willingness to work together
in a spirit of Christian love and humility in order to build up the church. Second, we
should agree on how to approach this apocalyptic prophecy—this is the question of
proper hermeneutics.

BASIC PRINCIPLES
I do not have anything particularly new to offer, but I will underline the need to
remain firmly committed to our nonnegotiable hermeneutical principles of
apocalyptic interpretation. I will list some of them in the context of the study of the
trumpets.

1. In the interpretation of the trumpets, Adventist theologians have almost

consistently employed the historicist method of prophetic interpretation because
it is grounded in Scripture itself. This method was provided to the apocalyptic
visionaries by the angel interpreter. It has proven to be a valid approach to
apocalyptic prophecy as illustrated in its use by Jesus, the apostles, and MORE ARTICLES IN THIS ISSUE
interpreters throughout Christian history. While in this article I will not provide all
the necessary evidence to support the most important elements of the historicist All kinds of
method of interpretation,1 I will suggest that the following are indispensable for a stuff
proper interpretation of the trumpets:
Could there be
1. Apocalyptic prophecy covers the whole span of history from the time of the
something
prophet to the very end of history (Dan. 7). In order to be loyal to this
rather less
methodology, it is necessary to apply it to the apocalyptic visionary cycle of the
intimidating
seven trumpets. When we examine this prophecy from our historical moment,
about a complex
we must realize that some elements of the prophecy have already been fulfilled
doctrinal
while others are in the process of fulfillment or will soon be fulfilled.
presentation
2. Hence, the fulfillment of apocalyptic prophecy takes place within the flow of than seeing
history as a whole. Consequently, it cannot and should not be interpreted along ourselves in a
the lines of preterism or futurism or applied to conceptual abstractions transparent
disconnected from specific historical events (idealism). parable?

3. Recapitulation is central in apocalyptic prophecies (Dan. 2; 7; 8; 11). The

trumpets recapitulate history from a particular perspective and, to some extent, Good
parallel other prophetic cycles of seven found in Revelation.2 Each parallel Stories
analyzes the historical period from different and yet supplemental angles.
How does one
2. The apocalyptic nature of the vision aims at a fulfillment specific enough to be tell a good
located in one historical event or process. In other words, multiple fulfillments of children’s story?
the trumpets should be excluded from the discussion. This has been considered 3

by us and by the biblical writer to be a fundamental characteristic of apocalyptic The Heaven-

prophecy (e.g., Daniel says to the king of Babylon, who represents the kingdom, “
ordained
‘You are that head of gold’ ” [2:38, NIV]; similarly, Gabriel identifies “ ‘the kings of
Media and Persia’ ” and “ ‘the king of Greece’ ” as represented by the ram and goat Result of
respectively [8:20,21, NIV]). Revival and
3. The trumpets are not God’s final eschatological judgments upon impenitent Reformation
sinners but judgments taking place within the flow of history. Therefore, we
Our special
should clearly distinguish between the purpose of the trumpets and that of the
revival and
seven plagues (Rev. 16). The plagues will occur at a specific historical moment that
reformation
will quickly lead to the parousia.
column.
4. The mention of time periods within the trumpets should be carefully studied to
determine whether we are dealing with prophetic time periods or something else. Different
If the reference is to prophetic time periods, we should attempt to find the from us: A
historical fulfillment applying the year-day principle to them.
Pastoral
5. We should carefully study the biblical antecedents of the language and imagery Reflection
used to describe each trumpet before attempting to identify their historical
on Cultural
fulfillment. This methodological element is based on the hermeneutical principle
that Scripture interprets itself. Its application excludes the use of our imagination Conflict
to determine meaning and identify fulfillment.
How do we, as

Using these principles will not guarantee unanimity of interpretation but will set ministers of the

some important parameters for the interpretation of the trumpets. Although gospel, respond

differences of opinion cannot be ruled out completely, as Adventist interpreters we to the questions

should uphold the principles discussed above. For instance, it could be that the voiced in our

language and imagery used in the description of a particular trumpet could be society?

applied by different interpreters to different historical events. This is tolerable as

long as a particular historical fulfillment is in view and the biblical text has been The Joys
carefully analyzed in order to justify that particular possibility. This suggests that, (and
with respect to a full or final interpretation of the trumpets, our journey has not yet Challenges)
reached its intended destination. of
Retirement
DIVERSITY OF VIEWS
If we are
The following chart illustrates how the application of the previous principles of
blessed to have
interpretation to the trumpets by dedicated Adventists could result in a diversity of
lived long
views regarding the prophecy’s precise historical fulfillment. This chart is not
enough to retire,
comprehensive but illustrative.4
we will face
some new
VIEWS ON THE TRUMPETS challenges and
U. E. Thiele R. Naden C. M. Maxwell W. Shea J. Paulien/ H. A. Treiyer new joys. What
Trumpet Smith LaRondelle/ R.
Stefanovic will be our
First Attack of God’s God’s judgment God’s Pagan God’s Attack of attitude?
Visigoths judgment on Jerusalem. judgment on Rome judgment on Visigoths
against on Jerusalem. persecutes Jerusalem. against Rome
Rome Jerusalem. Christians. under Alaric.Christians,
under
Alaric. Worldviews,
Second Attack of God’s God’s judgment God’s Fall of Fall of the Attack of the
the judgment on pagan judgment on pagan Roman Empire. Vandals and Wisdom
Vandals on pagan Rome. pagan Rome. Rome. against Rome.
against Rome.
Rome. Only a deep,
Third Attack of God’s God’s judgment God’s Apostasy Apostasy of Attack of thepersonal
the Huns judgment against judgment of the the Christian Huns against
against against professed against Christian church. Rome. knowledge of
Rome. professed Christian professed church. God can give us
Christian church. Christian
church. church. the wisdom to
Fourth Fall of Darkness Darkness of the Darkness of Darkness Rise of secular- Collapse of make truly
Western of the Middle Ages. the Middle of the atheism (Rev. Western
Rome. Middle Ages. Middle 11:7). Rome and itsinformed
Ages. Ages. system of
worship. choices of what
Fifth Rise of Rise and Satan’s attack Rise and Crusades Reign of Rise of Islamstandard we
Islam. (5 progress on the progress of during the secular- against
months of Islam. Reformation by Islam. (5 Middle atheism. (5 apostate will use to
period; (5 months the Counter- months = 150 Ages. (5 months = Christianity.recognize true
1299 + period; Reformation. (5 years; first months = God’s (5 months =
150 = 1299 + months = 150 Muslim attack 150 years; judgments are 150 years; and trustworthy
1449.) 150 = years; 1535– on 1099– comprehensive 632–782; first
1449.) 1685.) Constantinople 1249; from but limited; cf. Islamic knowledge—the
in 674 to the the Gen. 7:24; 8:3.) expansionist
last in 823 capture of wave.) Word of God or
[only 149 Jerusalem
years].) to the modern
beginning scientific
of the last
crusade.) interpretations.
Sixth Ottoman Ottoman Time of final Ottoman Ottoman Rise of end- Ottoman
Empire. Empire. crisis; from Empire. (391 Empire. time Babylon. Empire. (391
(1 day, 1 (391 18th century to years; 1453, (391 years; The final crisis years; 1453–7 Deadly
month, 1 years; close of fall of 1453– described in 1844, when
year = 1449– probation. Byzantine 1844, 7:1–3 and Rev. the edict of Sins of
391 1840.) Empire to when the 13–16. (1 hour, toleration was
years; 1844.) edict of 1 day, 1 issued.) Women in
1449– toleration month, refers
1840.) was to a divine ap- Leadership
issued.) pointed
moment of
time.) Overcoming
Seventh Mystery Mystery Consummation. Mystery of Mystery of Sets final Time of the self-defeating
of God is of God is God is God is events in end when the
finished. finished. finished. finished. motion. mystery of behavior in
(Summary of God is
events work and
accomplished.
described in
Rev. 12–22.) ministry.

The chart reveals a number of important points. First, it is clear that the traditional Rest
view among Adventists, represented by Uriah Smith, is not strongly supported by
many interpreters. However, the fact that one scholar (Alberto Treiyer) has recently Society today
provided a valuable exposition and defense of the trumpets along the lines of Smith’s does not value
indicates that this interpretation should not be easily dismissed. Second, none of the the importance
other interpreters follow Smith in his interpretation of the first four trumpets. In of rest and
fact, if this sample of expositors is of any value, one could easily conclude that a new sleep, and many
consensus seems to be emerging in the interpretation of the first four trumpets that often consider
radically differs from the views of Smith. Third, there are some significant sleep to be a
interpretational differences with respect to the fifth and sixth trumpets. Two waste of time.
interpreters sided with Uriah Smith in their interpretation of the fifth trumpet
(Thiele and Maxwell) and three on the sixth trumpet (Thiele, Maxwell, and Shea). But
we find among them variations in some details. This suggests that Smith’s
Letters to
interpretation has not been totally put to rest.
the Editor
Fourth, the most important development in the interpretation of the fifth and sixth
trumpets finds in them the rise of secularism and atheism in the Western world and
VIEW ALL ISSUE CONTENTS
the work of the end-time Babylon (Paulien, LaRondelle, and Stefanovic). 5 Because
this is a major departure from the traditional approach, it is necessary to make a few
comments about it. The question is whether this interpretation remains compatible
with the historicist approach. In my opinion, it seems to be compatible— notice that I
am not saying that this is or is not the right interpretation of these trumpets. The
main reason for my opinion is that it is neither a preterist or futurist, nor an idealist DIGITAL DELIVERY
approach to the trumpets. The apparent problem is that this view identifies the
powers described in the trumpets with philosophical and spiritual movements rather If you're a print subscriber, we'll
than with particular empires or nations. But here we should be cautious. For complement your print copy of Ministry
instance, in the New Testament, Israel is not simply a geopolitical power. Through with an electronic version.
the coming of the Jewish Messiah the faith of Israel has been universalized, and now
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the Old Testament Israel of faith incorporates people from every tongue, tribe, and
people. There are various other examples from the book of Revelation itself, but the
best is probably Babylon. It is no longer a city in Mesopotamia but a symbol of global
apostasy and rebellion against God. This interpretational movement from a limited
geographical area to a universal phenomenon is also supported by Ellen G. White in
the context of apocalyptic prophecies. She takes the apocalyptic reference to Egypt to
represent the spirit of the French Revolution that has now reached global
dimensions in the form of atheism.6 Therefore this new interpretation of the fifth and
sixth trumpets does not undermine historicism. It identifies a global way of thinking
that originated in a particular nation and considers it to be the historical fulfillment
of the fifth and sixth trumpets. This new approach remains within the boundaries of
historicism. Probably the most significant challenge that this view confronts is to
provide a valid interpretation to the time elements mentioned in the two trumpets.
On the other hand, those who follow Uriah Smith or are very close to his views do
not only have to agree on the specific dates for the fulfillment of the prophetic
periods but they also need to find a better explanation for the mention of the seal of
God in the fifth trumpet (Rev. 9:4). RECENT ISSUES See All

Fifth, another item that tends to complicate the discussion of the prophetic periods
and has influenced some of the expositors is that Ellen G. White seems to support the
interpretation of the Millerite preacher Josiah Litch. This is what she says, “In the
year 1840 another remarkable fulfillment of prophecy excited widespread interest.
Two years before, Josiah Litch, one of the leading ministers preaching the second
advent, published an exposition of Revelation 9, predicting the fall of the Ottoman
Empire. According to his calculations, this power was to be overthrown ‘in a.d. 1840,
sometime in the month of August;’ and only a few days previous to its
accomplishment he wrote: ‘Allowing the first period, 150 years, to have been exactly
fulfilled before Deacozes ascended the throne by permission of the Turks, and that
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the 391 years, fifteen days, commenced at the close of the first period, it will end on
the 11th of August, 1840, when the Ottoman power in Constantinople may be
expected to be broken. And this, I believe, will be found to be the case.‘—Josiah Litch,
in Signs of the Times, and Expositor of Prophecy, Aug. 1, 1840.

At the very time specified, Turkey, through her ambassadors, accepted the protection
of the allied powers of Europe, and thus placed herself under the control of Christian
nations. The event exactly fulfilled the prediction. . . . When it became known,
multitudes were convinced of the correctness of the principles of prophetic
interpretation adopted by Miller and his associates, and a wonderful impetus was
given to the advent movement. Men of learning and position united with Miller, both
in preaching and in publishing his views, and from 1840 to 1844 the work rapidly
extended.”7

The context indicates that she is describing the experience of William Miller and his
supporters in the early 1840s. Since, at that time, she was a Millerite, she most
probably accepted Litch’s interpretation of the prophecy. Her main point in the quote
is that the fulfillment of his prediction added impetus to the prophetic interpretation
of the 2,300 days put forth by William Miller. It has been suggested that what we
seem to have here is a retelling of the experience of the Millerites, including hers,
without necessarily providing a final interpretation of the prophetic period. Whether
this is the case or not will continue to be a matter of debate.8 But the fact that she
never again mentions 1840 as a year when a biblical prophecy was fulfilled should
make us cautious on White to settle the question. They would rather reexamine the
issue by taking a fresh look at the biblical text and examining historical sources. In
this particular case, this appears to be a good procedure.

CONCLUSION
The views summarized in this paper are all compatible with the historicist method of
prophetic interpretation. As long as this particular methodology is not undermined,
the church should allow for a diversity of interpretations.9 Acknowledging this
should immediately rule out dogmatic interpretations and heated discussions that
could easily sacrifice Christian humility and love. Every suggested interpretation
needs discussion in terms of the validity of the analysis of the biblical text and its
alleged historical fulfillment.

1 For example, see William Johnsson, “Biblical Apocalyptic,” in Handbook of Seventh-day Adventist
Theology, ed. Raoul Dederen (Hagerstown, MD: Review and Herald, 2000), 784–814.

2 On the topic of recapitulation and the trumpets, see Ekkehardt Mueller, “Recapitulation in Revelation
4-11,” Journal of the Adventist Theological Society 9, no. 1 (1998): 260–277.

3 See Jon Paulien, “Seals and Trumpets: Some Current Discussions,” in Symposium on Revelation—Book
I, ed. Frank B. Holbrook (Silver Spring, MD: Biblical Research Institute, 1992), 183–198.

4 The information for the chart was taken from the following sources: Hans LaRondelle, How to
Understand the End-Time Prophecies of the Bible: The Biblical/Contextual Approach (Sarasota, FL: First
Impressions, 1997); C. Mervyn Maxwell, God Cares, vol. 2 (Boise, ID: Pacific Press, 1985); Roy C. Naden,
The Lamb Among the Beasts (Hagerstown, MD: Review and Herald, 1996); Jon Paulien, “Interpreting the
Seven Trumpets,” unpublished paper prepared for the Daniel and Revelation Committee of the General
Conference, 1986; William Shea, “Revelation’s Trumpets,” unpublished paper, 1998; Uriah Smith, The
Prophecies of Daniel and Revelation (Nashville, TN: Southern Publishing Association, 1944); Ranko
Stefanovic, The Revelation of Jesus Christ: Commentary on the Book of Revelation (Berrien Spring, MI:
Andrews University Press, 2002); Edwin R. Thiele, Outline Studies in Revelation (Angwin, CA: Class
Syllabus, Pacific Union College); Alberto Treiyer, The Seals and the Trumpets: Biblical and Historical
Studies (self-published, 2005). I apologize to the authors if I unintentionally misrepresented their views.

5 Jacques Doukhan also supports this particular view (Secrets of Revelation: The Apocalypse Through
Hebrew Eyes [Hagerstown, MD: Review and Herald, 2002], 84–91). He sees in the first four trumpets the
history of the church from post-apostolic times to the great apostasy, paralleling to some extent the seals.

6 She wrote, “ ‘The great city’ in whose streets the witnesses are slain, and where their dead bodies lie, is
‘spiritually’ Egypt. Of all nations presented in Bible history, Egypt most boldly denied the existence of the
living God, and resisted His commands. No monarch ever ventured upon more open and highhanded
rebellion against the authority of Heaven than did the king of Egypt. When the message was brought him
by Moses, in the name of the Lord, Pharaoh proudly answered, ‘Who is Jehovah, that I should hearken
unto His voice to let Israel go? I know not Jehovah, and moreover I will not let Israel go.’ [Exodus 5:2.]
This is atheism; and the nation represented by Egypt would give voice to a similar denial of the claims of
the living God, and would manifest a like spirit of unbelief and defiance. ‘The great city’ is also
compared, ‘spiritually,’ to Sodom. The corruption of Sodom in breaking the law of God was especially
manifested in licentiousness. And this sin was also to be a pre-eminent characteristic of the nation that
should fulfill the specifications of this scripture” (The Great Controversy [Mountain View, CA: Pacific
Press, 1950], 269). In another place, after describing the moral corruption of the world, she asks, “What is
to prevent the world from becoming a second Sodom?” (Education [Oakland, CA: Pacific Press, 1903],
228). Then she adds, “At the same time anarchy is seeking to sweep away all law, not only divine, but
human. The centralizing of wealth and power; the vast combinations for the enriching of the few at the
expense of the many; the combinations of the poorer classes for the defense of their interests and claims;
the spirit of unrest, of riot and bloodshed; the world-wide dissemination of the same teachings that led to
the French Revolution—all are tending to involve the whole world in a struggle similar to that which
convulsed France” (Ibid., emphasis added). She seems to consider such a mind-set as the one prevailing
now in the whole world: “Atheism and infidelity prevail in every land. Bold blasphemers stand forth in
the earth, the house of God’s own building, and deny the existence of the Creator, and challenge the God
of heaven to strike them dead on the spot if their position is wrong. Behold the societies of infidels
everywhere forming to devise means to spread their hellish poisons!” (Review and Herald, May 4, 1886).
It is clear that for Ellen G. White the names of the cities stand now for worldwide movements that were
initiated in France during the French Revolution. This way of looking at apocalyptic prophetic fulfillment
still falls within what we call the historicist method of prophetic interpretation.

7 Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, 334,335. 8 See Robert W. Olson, 101 Questions on the Sanctuary
and Ellen G. White (Washington, DC: Ellen G. White Estate, 1981), question 52. 9 This is illustrated by the
way the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary dealt with the seven trumpets. While affirming the
traditional view represented by Smith, it acknowledges other possibilities and avoids dogmatism (see F.
D. Nichol, ed., Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary [Washington, DC: Review and Herald, 1978],
7:778–796).

Ministry reserves the right to approve, disapprove, and delete comments at our
discretion and will not be able to respond to inquiries about these comments. Please
ensure that your words are respectful, courteous, and relevant.

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D
daniel − ⚑
11 years ago

How is it possible for the 5th Trumpet to have sounded yet, when they only hurt those who
don't have the seal of God in their foreheads? As i write this in 2012, none of the 144,000 has
yet had the seal of God in their foreheads.

10 4 Reply • Share ›

Theodore James Turner > daniel − ⚑

9 years ago

The seal of God is the Sabbath. The Islamic armies did not attack Sabbath keeping
Christians or Jews in their war against Catholicism.

2 0 Reply • Share ›

Button Knowbuddy > Theodore James Turner − ⚑

9 years ago

That's a bizarre idea. I think one that exists merely to justify the existence of
your church, rather than anything based upon any sort of logic.

0 3 Reply • Share ›

Theodore James Turner > Button Knowbuddy − ⚑

9 years ago

It is not based upon logic but upon a study of the Scriptures. I do

not see how it justiOes the existence of my Church. It is a fact of
history that Islamic armies did not attack Sabbath keeping
Christians. You seem to buy into the modern theory that literal
Israel has something to do with Bible prophecy after the time of
Christ. The Jewish nation ceased to be God's covenant people in
34 AD.

3 1 Reply • Share ›

Button Knowbuddy > Theodore James Turner − ⚑

8 years ago

I would deny your preterist view. God's covenant with Israel will
continue for as long as there is night and day, afaik, we still have
night and day.

Again, whether it is fact or not that Muslims attacked sabbath

keeping Christians, I see no connection between this "fact" and the
144,000.

Jews still have their old covenant with God, while we Christians
possess a superior covenant.

1 1 Reply • Share ›

Dan L. Kelly > Button Knowbuddy − ⚑

7 years ago

recognizing literal Jews as those only, who makeup the 144,000

demand that they would have to be celibate Jew s, numbering
144,000 exactly and divides by 12 from each tribe, exactly. IN
addition, they would of necessity already "redeemed 'from among
men'" standing with the Lamb on Mt Zion before the throne with no
guile in their mouths - without fauld as they stand there.

That position needs to be revisited with some scrutiny..

0 0 Reply • Share ›

Theodore James Turner > Button Knowbuddy − ⚑

8 years ago

I am not a preterist but an historicist.

0 2 Reply • Share ›

E
Ekims > daniel − ⚑
4 years ago

Hello Daniel,
I think you are absolutely right :) the Ofth trumpet could not have been blown based
on many, many things, not just one. the Ofth trumpet should be huge to S.D.A.s that
this trumpet could not belong in the six hundreds. like you are saying, where are the
144,000 back then. but even before that huge clue, we have the bottomless pit that
was opened. I need to see what beast came out of the bottomless pit back in the six
hundreds that went into the bottomless pit further back in history, for based on
Revelation what comes up out of bottomless pits are beasts! referring to chapter 11
and chapter 17. these two chapters are the basis of our understanding in the Orst
place, but we also need to include chapter 20. without this understanding of the
bottomless pit it is impossible to conOdently place this trumpet back in the six
hundreds where so many want to place it. that's huge, hurting only those men which
have not the seal of God is also huge, but there is so much in this trumpet that says it
belongs in the future not in the past that we are only scratching the surface.

0 0 Reply • Share ›

Button Knowbuddy > daniel − ⚑

9 years ago

The seal is simply a denotation that God will ensure that a remnant of Israel shall
survive, despite the many holocausts they would suffer at the hands of the 7 heads
and 10 horns, until the very end, until he returns them to Israel.

0 0 Reply • Share ›

AR
Alberto R. Treiyer − ⚑
11 years ago

A response to Ministry magazine's article entitled:

Issues in the Interpretation of the Seven Trumpets of Revelation (Jan 2012).

In his article
“Issues in the Interpretation of the Seven Trumpets of Revelation” (Ministry,
January 2012), Angel M. Rodríguez gathered several interpretations that were
introduced in the Seventh-day
Adventist Church
mostly toward the end of the 20th Century. In the article he
essentially attempts to establish two main ideas: that the various interpretations
gathered are all historicist, and that “at the present time… a Onal
interpretation is not available” in our church.

While we may accept

that every interpretation may be improved upon and expanded, this superOcial
way of dealing with the matter does not make justice to the prophetic faith of
our church. The Seventh-day
Adventist Church
see more

2 1 Reply • Share ›

Steve Leddy − ⚑
8 years ago

I have some strong reservations with this interpretation and article as an Adventist pastor.

First, EGW never wanted us to make her writings the block for further growth, study and
interpretation.

Our own church cannot agree on what each Trumpet attaches to in the past. I look at these
interpretations and I can see how one might lean this way, but it really does not match the
timeline like the 7 Churches and the 7 Seals obviously do. Why would God make it easy to
understand the timeline for the 7 Churches and Seals, but make it nearly impossible to clearly
see that timeline in the Trumpets? I also see real issues ignoring the obvious tie of Rev. 6:10
and the intro to the 7 Trumpets. And most glaring, how can the 5th Trumpet have already
sounded when it includes the sealing of God's people? It does not read that the seal was
discovered/rediscovered, but that it was the actual sealing on God's people.

There is a wonderful structure and connection, in my humble opinion, between the 7 Seals, 7
Trumpets, and 7 Last Plagues. Each starts in the midst of the previous' 6th; Last Plagues begin
in the 6th Trumpet, Trumpets begin in the 6th Seal. Each gives us a closer view of end time
events.

see more

1 0 Reply • Share ›

D
disqus_servant1 > Steve Leddy − ⚑
7 years ago

Is there a biblical base for the timeline of the seven churches in Revelation 2-3? and
how does that line up with the seals?

0 0 Reply • Share ›

Jordan River > disqus_servant1 − ⚑

4 years ago

There is no timeline for the seven churches. Whatever has been proposed is
mere super-imposition on the text. This is how historicism runs amok.

0 0 Reply • Share ›

PB
Patrick Barrett − ⚑
11 years ago

I know that the prophecy of the 7 trumpets is a hard nut to crack. I believe in the historicist
approach to the interpretation of the trumpets. There are things yet not fully understood.
However we have got to be carefull that we do not use scholarship to rationalize inspiration
because the interprepations of the Ellen White do not agree with our thinking. Mrs. White gave
support to the prophetic interpretations to some of the Millerites views. In some instences
where there were problems she pointed them out. She gave support to the interpretation of the
views of Revelation 11 and the two witnesses in the light of the French Revolution. She gave
support to the interpretation of the 2300 days as far as the dates were concern, and to some
extent the events (the preadvent judgment). She supported the early adventists views to a
large extent on the three angels message. No one seemed to have a problem with those
interpretations. But when it comes to the interpretation of the 6th trumpet, suddenly we have a
problem with that. I know Ellen White was no Bible scholar nor professional historian. But we
must be consistent in our hemeneutics of her writings.
Whatever little light God has revealed to us through her on apocalyptic prophecies let's be
careful that we do not enshroud it in darkness and confusion when there is really no need to.
She emphatically said that the interpretation of the 6th trumpet "was another remarkable
fulOllment of prophecy".This is quite authoritative to me. Here I stand. And I rest my case. No
need for speculation.

1 0 Reply • Share ›

HH
Heidi Heiks > Patrick Barrett − ⚑
11 years ago

I thank-you for the opportunity to share some

thoughts on the Trumpets but Orst allow me to address a critical point from
which restricts many from moving forward on this topic:

As rightly stated and illustrated by Moon

he highlights the following:

“Regarding the conkict in the denomination today, [On the Trinity] both
Ellen White and other early Adventists testify that faithfulness to the spirit
of the pioneers does not mean never varying from the precise
understandings they held. As J. N. Andrews declared in 1854: “If the Advent
body itself were to furnish the fathers and the saints for the
future church, Heaven pity the people that should live hereafter. Reader, we
entreat you to prize your Bible.”[1]

see more

5 1 Reply • Share ›

E
Ekims − ⚑
4 years ago

I'm not sure what happened. It was there, I know that this discussion for the most part was 7
years ago, but I posted anyway. There's something satisfying about being able to respond to a
topic that touches so many for so long and so I also shared some of my views. I saw it post
even. I even edited it, but, it's gone. Not sure if ministry magazine exercised their right to
"approve, disapprove" and just deleted it? I'll post this to see if it sticks, then move foward once
again. Who knows, maybe just an accident.

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Jim Gurtner − ⚑
5 years ago

I believe that the late SDA Pastor, J.Reynolds Hoffman, a well-known evangelist and renowned
speaker who made over two million audiocassettes, circulated worldwide, has the correct view
of the seven trumpets: https://tinyurl.com/7Trumpets (audio mp3 link)

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This comment was deleted. −

Jim Gurtner > Guest − ⚑
5 years ago

Hello Earnest,

I appreciate your zeal for defending the Spirit of Prophecy. However, how do
we deal with some very disturbing statements made by A.G. Daniels and
W.W. Prescott at the 1919 Bible conference? W.W. Prescott had the audacity
to deliberately go against what EGW taught in the 1884 and 1888 Great
Controversy versions!

W. W. Prescott: ...you all know that I contributed something toward the

revision of "Great Controversy"...
A. G. Daniells: By request.
W. W. Prescott: Yes, I was asked to do it, and at Orst I said, "No, I will not do
it. I know what it means." But I was urged into it... If we correct it here and
correct it there, how are we going to stand with it in the other places?
F. M. Wilcox: Those things do not involve the general philosophy of the
book.
W. W. Prescott: No, but they did involve quite large details. For instance,
before "Great Controversy" was revised, I was unorthodox on a certain point,
but after it was revised, I was perfectly orthodox.
see more

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E
Ekims > Guest − ⚑
4 years ago edited

Hello Brother,
We must also keep in mind that Sister White said that solemn events are
before us, are YET to transpire, trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded, vial
after vial poured out one after another... trumpet after trumpet is more than
one and she said this well after Josiah Litch's application. :)

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E
Ekims > Guest − ⚑
4 years ago

I would say, look up Mrs. Whites statement about trumpet after

trumpet is to be sounded, vial after vial poured out... and you will
see that it was years later.
To say that the seven last plagues ( or vials) are trumpets would
be to rewrite Revelation. If you have permission to interpret vials
as trumpets please share your Ondings from the Bible or S.O.P.
otherwise you will be led astray, and you will lead others astray.
Thanks

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This comment was deleted. −

E
Ekims > Guest − ⚑
4 years ago edited

Since the 1880's where sister white mentions that Jesus wanted to
come in that time frame, but there was an apparent hold up. The
church didn't embrace righteousness by faith. Since Jesus was
about to come back then would mean the trumpets would have
been nearly fulOlled as they understood them. But since He wasn't
able to come, there now needs to be a repetition of the trumpets. I
try not to criticize the church too much on this point of the
trumpets, and the application that is made to the distant past, but
from my vantage point ( our vantage point) now, I look at the
trumpets in a future view point. Another application that concerns
the church now and onward.

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This comment was deleted. −

E
Ekims > Guest − ⚑
4 years ago edited

To be living under the 7th trumpet means that the 4 winds have
been given permission to let go in the 6th which means that the
144,000 have shown up in the Ofth and the bottomless pit has
been opened in the Ofth which means that the beast from the pit
has come out, which would mean that the 4th trumpet also
sounded and the sun, moon, and stars were darkened. Since the
trumpets are so majorly important, why don't we read from some
spiritual church father back in the dark ages in those times that
the trumpet was supposed to be blasting, write about it? Since this
can is opened, permit me to Share something that God has taught
me:

In order to understand the timing of the trumpets we need to

identify the Angel's of the seven trumpets from Revelation, chapter
 1-7 then following the revelation and how they Ot in. When we
come to chapter 8 we need to understand v.2-6 noticing there, 7
Angel's are preparing to sound, not sounding but going through a
preparation time. V.3-5 we see Jesus come to the alter in the Holy
place and begin His intercession. V.5 shows us the transition of
see more

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Florin Laiu > Guest − ⚑

5 years ago

However, we must prove it with the Bible and history. If we have only ”Ellen
White says”, but no serious historical conOrmation, this is not a good
research business.

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Jim Gurtner > Guest − ⚑

5 years ago

In the original 1884 version of "The Great Controversy", which was volume 4
of “The Spirit of Prophecy”, there was not one word from the pen of Ellen
White on the seven trumpets. "The Great Controversy" was revised by a
committee in 1888, at which time 129-130 pages were added. Most of
those pages were not written by Ellen White. Those on the committee were
W.C. White, Uriah Smith, J.H. Waggoner, S.M. Haskell, and G.I. Butler.

After Ellen White’s death, Adventist college professors convened at the 1919
Bible Conference and tried to decide if all of Ellen White’s writings should be
taught in the colleges as historical fact. It was then revealed that material
was added from Uriah Smith’s writings, which include statements from
Josiah Litch on the seven trumpets. The following is an excerpt from the
1919 Bible Conference:

Voice: “To your knowledge, has Sister White ever made a difference
between her nine volumes and her other books?”
W. W. Prescott: “I have never talked with her about it. In my mind, there is a
difference between the works she largely prepared herself and what was
prepared by others for sale to the public.”
see more

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Florin Laiu > Guest − ⚑
5 years ago

Dear Ernie, Prescott had also an important part to play in the 1911
revision of GC. Some of the modiOcations have been operated
(with E G White’s approval), according to the list of suggestions
built up by Prescott. Unfortunately, Prescott did not yet know that
the interpretation of Litch on the 5th and 6th trumpets was
actually a Oasco. He would discover it in a few years.

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L
lovemore nganunu − ⚑
5 years ago

our 999 call to God s emergency services when facing our enemies is revealed in
Trumpets,When thru the merits of Christ s righteousness,God responds favourably to our
protection by dealing with the enemy Himself

The only way possible to receive God s mercy is thru the cross,hence we need the incense
from the altar ( the cross-Christ s atoning sacriOce )) which when offered before the golden
altar mingled with the prayers of the saints we get the overwhelming presence of God

Just as when Aaron s head was anointed the oil would kow to the rest of the body so it was
when Christ was inaugurated the oil kowed to the church...at Pentecost

5 And the angel took the censer, and Olled it with Ore of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and
there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

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E
Eli Huerta − ⚑
6 years ago

The trumpets are the response to the petitions of the souls under the altar to vindicate that
trumpets cannot fold considerably over the seven churches and seven seals, inasmuch as the
martyrs slain by Babylon and the eighth king of Revelation 17 cannot be omitted as essential
constituents of the intent of the Ofth seal. The trumpets cannot fold considerably over the
churches and seals, inasmuch as the seventh month of Tishri cannot be equated with the
seven months prior; it is the seven churches that actually represent the “new moon”
observances between the spring and autumn festivals. The trumpets cannot fold considerably
over the churches and seals, inasmuch as the prohibitions against harming those with the seal
of God in the Ofth trumpet cannot be divorced from God’s use of those who disavow Christ to
separate the wheat from the tares, the chosen from the reprobate, nor can the principle of
Matthew 12:25-26 be divorced from the phenomenon of the sixth trumpet; under such scrutiny,
the Ofth, nay the Orst Ove trumpets must represent God’s judgment on the church before he
judges the reprobate in the sixth trumpet, in conformity with 1 Peter 4:17-18. All the evidence
supports the historical phenomenon depicted by the trumpets commence with the seventh
seal in conformity with how the phenomenon of the seven vials or Onal plagues commence
upon the blowing of the seventh trumpet. In such a perception, the trumpets maintain
terminological and thematic correspondence with the sealing of the 144,000 and the three
angels in Revelation 14.

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J
Joshua − ⚑
6 years ago

I biblically agree with 1, 2, and four. However, I believe number 3 is actually the end of heavens
rebellion which results in Satan being cast out of heaven to the earth. Number 5 is the rise of
the theory of evolution via Darwin, whose ideas seek to undermine the origins of humanity.
Note who the "king" is. The 6th is the second coming- allusions of 4 angels holding back 7:1-3,
the Euphrates, i.e. The antithpical Cyrus, the 7th trumpet is revelation 20:11-15.... Onal
judgement. Your view is interesting but it strays from the kow of scripture.... I believe "more"
was to come. Why do u choose to remain "stuck"
In Christ,
Jl

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J
Joshua > Guest − ⚑
5 years ago

Confusion often sets in when one is “stuck in the rut”. 1-EGW stated she
was the LESSER light to the GREATER-I.e. The Holy Bible. 2- Uriah was seen
with an angel by his side....as he RESEARCHED the best available history of
the his time....he was NOT divinely inspired. Why are we afraid to humbly
listen to the Scriptures and allow the Holy Spirit to guild us into ALL truth-
John16:13-and show us things to come. Our forefathers fear of the Catholic
Church should not dictate or limit the Holy Spirits guidance. Isaiah 28:13....
James White was once asked, what is your creed...his response, the Bible
and the Bible only. We need that response more so today then ever before!!
Praise God for His “true channel of light” Jesus Christ...

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Button Knowbuddy − ⚑
9 years ago

What we call "the state," is

the anti-Christ. The 4 horseman of the apocalypse are: empire, war,
famine and death--the tools of state. The term "city" in Revelation
actually means "state." Mystery Babylon, the great city-state is a
mystery simply because it's location shifts throughout time as different
empires become dominant. The harlot represents the religion of Satan,
which is empire and war. The anti-Christ kingdoms have been all of the
conquering empires throughout history. Empire and war are the opposite
of agape-love.

In Revelation 13, John refers to the beast

coming out of the sea with 7 heads and 10 horns, which comprise the
anti-Christ's kingdom. The 7 heads were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia,
Greece, Rome and the Caliphate. The 10 horns were the 10 colonial
empires of Europe: Spain, Portugal, England, France, Netherlands,
Belgium, Germany, Italy, Austria-Hungary, and Byzantium/Russia. The
little horn that grew up to conquer 3 was the caliphate, which conquered
Spain, Portugal and Byzantium.

see more

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Button Knowbuddy − ⚑
9 years ago

May I advance a different theory? I've never read any historicist, nor seen any chart like this
until now. I came up with this on my own.

Chapter 6

The 7 seals, Orst 6 of

The Orst 4 seals, the 4 horseman of the apocalypse, are

empire, war, famine and death. Which comprise the religion of Satan.

The 5th seal are the martyrs slain by empires.

The 6th seal refers to the barbarian hordes which

moved and established all of the nations of the world.

Chapter 7

The 144,000: Simply a denotation that God will ensure that a

remnant of Israel shall survive, despite the many holocausts they would suffer at the hands of
the 7 heads and 10 horns, until the very end, until he returns them to Israel.
see more

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Bible Please > Button Knowbuddy − ⚑

8 years ago

If I have to believe you I must do so simply because you said it. You have said nothing
to prove any point you made. This hocus Pocus approach to Prophecy makes it
ditcult to follow intelligently.

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Button Knowbuddy > Bible Please − ⚑

8 years ago

How is it hocus pocus? This is simply identifying the historical parallels

between the conceptual struggle between the religion of God, which is
agape, and the religion of Satan, which is empire, war and death. This is a
tangible historical account that describes where mankind abandons agape.
Hocus pocus would be to take Revelation as being literal, that a number of
magical events will occur to the earth, such as rivers actually turning to
blood and such.

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D
disqus_servant1 > Button Knowbuddy − ⚑
7 years ago

it is best to look at the old testament context when viewing this

content, it will add clarity to the objects in which we see in the
Revelation

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Button Knowbuddy
8 years ago
> Button Knowbuddy − ⚑

I have begun editing this theory, however, as I've advanced in

understanding of the Biblical symbolism. The connection between
Joel and the trumpets of Revelation are particularly interesting, as
Joel describes these events as happening many generations
before the end (Joel 2:2), hence the trumpets cannot refer to the 7
year tribulation, but rather to some period of time in history
between Jesus and now.

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J.M. − ⚑
10 years ago

The seventh trumpet can and has been proven to be occurring now using a historical event
parallel structure/parallel theme proof. The parallel structure proof eliminates all but a
historicist understanding that the seventh trumpet is about Islam.
Three are just too many parallel events to the Ofth and sixth trumpets as found in the works of
James White, and E. Gibbon's be a coincidence.

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