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Espare a 491969613 a 94416865412 mal: dstbuconebmnuses AASPPAL SL (dela Fund, 15 ol Ind, Sta Ana 28509 vas Vaiamat Madi Esse tet 401865001 fac 94413012688 ‘emai ppan@axppan con cxppight© 200 neroquisss ringuna pat eet puta, ali el dso de a cubierta puede repress, amcenare canes ding forma sina previa aoa est por pat dea eto alighsresevet la iol no setae respusabe dea devoluctn de evalu doeameiaio ‘avid a edacin sn habe do epesaeni sola por st the editors do ot mai herseesresposble fore rtum material sent without having been express) requested Isonoot2 5683 epi lega 115-1982 imresoy enowdeade en Mace merodquis es ui pbicain miembm de ARCEy dela Acicin de Estes de Met Pronio COAM Pubicasonas 1985 Premio al EXPORTACION 1592 ela Cara de Comacoe Indust de Mart Medal FAD 2004 Pca contador OUDINDICE CONTENTS i9ge/2004 DAVID CHIPPERFIELD Biografia 5 Biography Una Conversacién con David Chipperfield A Conversation with David Chippertield ALEJANDRO ZAERA Minimalismo Denso 24 Dense Minimalism AARON BETSKY CasaenCorrubedo 36 House in Corrubedo Centro de Servicios de Ernsting 50 Ernsting Service Center Cementerio de San Michele en Venecia 64 San Michele Cemetery, Venice Neues Museum en Berlin 74 Neues Museum, Berlin Nuevo Edificio de Acceso ala Isla de los Museos 94 New Entrance Building, Museum Island Galeria Hinter dem Giesshaus 1 Hinter dem Giesshaus 1 Gallery Spreedreieck (Proyecto de un Rascacielos junto al Rio Spree] Spreedreieck [Project for a Skyscraper near the River Spree] 06 14 Ciudad de las Culturas de Ansaldo 118 Ansaldo City of Cultures Museo de Arte Figge en Davenport Figge Art Museum, Davenport 28 Biblioteca Publica en Des Moines Des Moines Public Library Ampliacién de la Casa Knight Knight House Addition 36 42 Estudio Gormley Gormley Studio Casa en Manhattan House in Manhattan Apartamentos Parkside en Berlin Parkside Apartments, Berlin Viviendas Sociales en Madrid Social Housing, Madrid Acceso al Paseo del Ovalo en Teruel Access to the Paseo del Ovalo, Teruel Nueva Sede de la BBC Scotland en Pacific Quay New BBC Scotland Headquarters in Pacific Quay Ciudad de la Justicia de Barcelona City of Justice, Barcelona Hotel en Hamburgo Hotel in Hamburg Museo de la Literatura Moderna en Marbach Museum of Modern Literature, Marbach Casa en Miami Miami House Conjunto Residencial en Athlone House Residential Complex, Athlone House Barrio Residencial en Bailujun Bailujun Residential District Museo dela Cultura de Liangzhu Liangzhu Culture Museum Club Social en Bamboo Forest Village Bamboo Forest Village Clubhouse Torres Residenciales en Central Huaihai Road Residential Towers, Central Huaihai Road Biblioteca José Vasconcelos en México José Vasconcelos Library, Mexico Centro de Artes Visuales de Colchester Colchester Visual Arts Building Centro Multimedia de la Universidad de Hong Kong City University of Hong Kong Multi Media Building Museo Hepworth en Wakefield The Hepworth Gallery, Wakefield Viviendas en Vilanova Vilanova Apartments Apartamento en Portland Place Apartment on Portland PlacePo ek atDAVID CHIPPERFIELD 1977 1982 1978-84 1986 199297 197382 1981 1982 1984-85 1985-86 1987-88 1988-90 1992 199994 1995-01 1997- 2001 1991 1998 1996 1998 2004 Nave en Londres, 1953 TiTULOS Diploma de Arquitectura, Architectural Association, Londres Miembro corporativo del RIBA EXPERIENCIA PROFESIONAL Trabaja en los estudio de Douglas Stephen, Richard Rogers y Norman Foster Establece David Chipperfield Architects ‘Miembro fundador de $H Gallery, Londres, Reino Unido Consejero de la Architecture Foundation, Londres, Reino Unido ACTIVIDAD ACADEMICA Profesor de Disefo, North London Polytechnic, Reino Unido Profesor de Disefo, Escuela de Arquitectura de Cardiff, Reino Unido Profesor de Disefo, South Bank Polyiechnic, Reino Unido Profesor de Disefio, Bkmingham Polytechnic, Reino Unido Profesor de Disefo, University College London, Reino Unido Profesor invitado, Universidad de Harvard, Cambridge, Massachusetts, EEUU Profesor de Disefio, Royal College of Art, Londres, Reino Unido Profesor invitado, Universidad de Graz, Austiia Profesor invitad, Universidad de Népoles, lia Profesor invitado, Ecol Polytechnique, Lausana, Suiza Profesor de Arquitectua, Staatliche Akademie der Bidenden Kanst Stuttgart Profesor invitado, London Insitute, Reino Urido Cétedra Mies van der Rohe, Escuela de Arquitecturade Barcelona, Espaia Profesor de Arquitectura, Universidad de Alghero, Cerdei, tala Profesor invitad, Art Institute, Chicago Profesor invitad, Escuela de Arqutestura de Népoes, alia PREMIOS Y DISTINCIONES Premio Financial Times, Mencién Especial Premio italstat Europ, Mencién Honontica Premio Andrea Pallaio por el Edlficie Toyota Auto Kyoto, Jepén Premio Regional RIBA por a Primera lal Je Cristo, Richmond, Surrey, Reino Unido Premio de la AIA (Seccin del Reino Unido) por el Museo Fluvial y de Rema Premio RIBA el Edificio de Oficinas en la Kaistrasse, Dusseldorf, Alemania Premio Regional RIBA por el Museo Fluvial y de Remo Premio RIBA - Categor’a Arquitectura para el Ocio y las Artes por el Museo Fiuvial y de Remo, Henley-on-Thames, Londres, Reino Unido Royal Fine Art Commission TrustBritsh Sky Broadcasting - Premio al Mejor Ecificio por e Museo Fluvaly de Remo Medallade OroTessenow Premio Civic Trust porl Museo Fluvial y de Remo Premio Regional RIBA por la Casa en Corrubedo, Galicia, Espafa CCCB (Centre de Cultura Contemporania de Barcelona) Premio Europen al Espacio Urbano Pablico por el Acceso al Paseo del Ovalo Teruel, Espatia Premio RIBA por el Estudio Gormley, Londres, Reino Unido Comendador de la Orden del Inperio Briténico(CBE] por los servicios prestados ala arquitectura 1962-97 1979-82 1981 1982 1984-85 1985-86 197-88 1966-90 1982, 1989-94 1995-01 1997- 2001 2003 Born in London, 1953 QUALIFICATIONS Diploma in Arctitecture, Architectural Associaton, London Corporate Member of he RIBA PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE Worked for Douglas Stephen, Richard Rogers and Norman Foster Estabished David Chigpertield Architects Founder member of SH Gallery London, UK ‘Trustee ofthe Architecture Foundation, London, UK ‘TEACHING Design tutor, North London Polytechnic, UK Design tutor, Cardiff School of Architecture UK Design utr, South Bark Polytech, UK Design tutor, Biringham Polytechnic, UK Design utr, University College London, UK Visiting Professor, Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusets, USA Design tutor, Royal College of Art, London, UK Visiting Profesor, Univesity of Graz, Austia Visting Professor, University of Naples, tly Visiting Professor, Ecol Polytechnique, Lausanne, Switzerland Professor of Architecture, Staatliche Alademie der Bldenden Kins, Stuitgart, Germany Visiting Profesor, London Inseute, UK Mies van der Rohe Chair, Barelona Schoo of Architecture, Spin Professor of Achitecture, Alghero University aly Visti Professor, Art institute, Chicago Visiting Professor, Naples Scheol of Architecture, Italy AWARDS Financial Times Award: Special Menton ialstt Europ Award: Honorary Mention ‘Andree Palladio Prize for the Toyota Auto Kyoto Building, Japan RIBA Regional Award for the First Church of Christ Scientist, Rehmond, Surrey AMA Avard (UK Chapter) forthe River & Rowing Museum RIBA Award for Kaistrasse Office Building, Disseldor, Germany RIBA Regional Award forthe Bver & Rowing Museum RIBA Category Award - Architecture in Arts and Leisure Award forthe River and Rowitg Museum, Herley-on-Thames, London, UK Royal Fine Art Commission Trust/Britsh Sky Broadcasting - Best Bling Award (England) for Rive Rowing Museum The Tessenow Gold Medal Award CCivio Tust Award for the River & Rowing Museum RIBA Regional Award for the House in Corrubedo, Galisia, Spain CCCB (Cente de Cultura Contempordnia de Barcelon) European Award for Public Urban Space fo Teruel Urban Redevelopment, Spain FIBA Award for Gormley Studia London, UK Commander ofthe Order ofthe Brtsh Empire (CBE) fo services to architectureCREDITOS CREDITS Associate Architect Structural Engineer General Contractor Nodels Photographs Location Cient Team Associate Architect Landscape Architect Structural Engineer Services Engineer General Contracter Nodels Photographs Location lent Production Director Associate Architect Landscape Architect Structural Engineer Services Engineer Cuantty Surveyor Geologist HOUSE IN CORRUBEDO alicia, Spin Or. Evelyn Stern Louise Broker, Davi Chipped Luc Denadon, Pablo Gallego Picard, Vitoria Jessen-Pke, Danis Lopez Perez, Carlos Martinez de Alborncz, Tina Sopie Mil, Anat Talmor, Olver Uimer, Giuseope Zarplei Carlos Fntenia, Caras Seoane Jane Wernick Associates: Jane Wernick, Javier Estevez Cimadevila Serna Davi Chipper Achitss, Mattew Marchbank, The Newark hisao Suuki, HéBne Binet ERNSTING SERVICE CENTER CoesteldLette, Getmany Kurt Emsting Eric Ajenian, Jennifer Bering, David Cipperfe, Martin Ebert, Mansour -Khawad, Jochan Glemser, Johannes tho Pesch, Heidrun Schuhmann, Hening Stunmel, Petr Westermann Schling Arhitekten: Johannes Sciling,Jechem Vieen Wirtz Internationa: Peter Witz Arup GrbH: Joacim Gisyen, Jane Wernick Associates: Steve Hass, dene Werick Planungsgemenschalt Haastechnil PH: Himar Gate, Abert Hetimann, Thomas Sisowst E. Heltkamp GmbH Modes, David Chipper Architects Cristian Rehters, Edmund Sumner SAN MICHELE CEMETERY, VENICE Venice tly Comune di Venez Erik Ajenian, Torti Ark, Crisitno Bila, Giuseppe Boel Franz Borho, Ada Yvas Bravo, Judith Bown, David Chpperteld, Mario Cotone, Luca Donadoi, Wansour E:-Khawad, Petra Eim, An Fonteyne, Tekeshi Hayatsu, Mette Heide, Joseph Huber, Seren Jaf, Harvey Langston-Jones, Genevieve Lily, Holger Lohmann, Danie! Lipez-Pére, Alessandra Maloino, Carlos Martinez de Alborce, Steven NcKay, an McKnight, Sabrina Melere-Moretn, Nina Nysten, Luca Parmegojan, Gundua Pose, Dona Rly, Peter Andreas Satu, Siva Schule, Alexander Schwarz, Sara Tempest, Hau Ming Te, Atigi Turi, Patrick Uberbcher, Over Ulmer, Jonathar Wong, Ton Yi-Suvanto Giuseppe Zam Franco Gazzar $88R: Romeo Scarpa, Siva Serafni Wirtz Intemational: Peter Wirtz Jane Wernick Associates: James Packer, Jane Wernick, Forel Breda Scarpa Gianni Breda, Frarcesco Marson, Romeo Scarpa Arup: Heather Carter, Andrew Sedgwick Stuo Associato Vio: Alessandra Vio, Michele Vio, Ciego Datil Tim Gatehouse Associates: Malcolm Awl, Andrea Faggion Cesare Rzzeto Geotechrical Consultant Studio Gectechis italiano: Paolo Ascari, Caudio Mescard Digital imaging Nodels Nodel Photograpts David Ctippertiel Architents David Ctippertielt Archers, Mathew Marchbank,Nilenniun Models, The Network, Richard Threadgl Associates Richard Daves, Alessandia Chem, Hisao Suzuki Location Client Team Restoraton Arctitect Landscape Architects Structural Engineer Services Engineer Restoration Supervision Lighting Design Exhibition Design Quantity Surveyer Site Supervision Models Model Photographs Location Client Team Landscape Architects Structural Engineer Services Engineer Quantity Surveyor Models Photomontages Model Photographs Locatior Client Team Models Photomontages Model Photographs Location Client Team Structural Engineer Models Model Photographs NEUES MUSEUM, BERLIN Berlin, Germany Stiftung PreuBischer Kultbesta od by Bundecant fir Bameson und Raunordnung CCompettion:Phipp Auer, Franz Borho, Natale rela, David Chiperild, ‘An Fonteyne, Robin Foster, Maio Hohmann, Martin Key, Harvey Largstonuones, Pack Mcinerme,lan McKnight, Claudia Narx, Guy Morgan Harts, Rik Nys, Mark Randel, Eva Schad, Alexander Schwar, Heewon Shin, Graham Smith, Henning Stummel, Giuseppe Zamoier, Mak Zogrotsk Pralimirary design: Davie Chioptiel, sabel Kai, Harald Mller, Nark Randel, David Sak, Eva Schad, Alexander Schwarz, Florian Stenbacher Final design Janna Bunj, David Chipperld, Adrian Dunham, Harald Eggers, ‘Annette Fohrscitz, Michael Freyag, Anke ritzst,lsabelle Heide, Christiano Motz, Harald Mle, Martin Retr, Franziska Fusch, Eva Schad, Alexander Schwarz Working drawings: Thomes Benk Katja Bushhol, David Chioprtld Maryla Duleba, Mathias Feg, AmetteFltrschtz, Micha’ Freytag Anke Fritsch, Kala Gursch, Anne Hengst, Miche! Kaune, Regine Krause, Marcus Mathias, Virginie Mommens, Haralé MAlr, Peter Peter, Marina Pongratz, Martin Reichert, Mariska Rohde, Franziska Rusch, Eke Sakina, Eva Schad, Antonia Schlegel, Alexander Schwarz, Barbara Witt Julian Harrap Architects: ulin Harrap, Clin Wilson Levin Monsigny:Mastina Levin, Nola Levin Ingenieurguppe Bauen: Gerhard Eisele, Markus Filan, Sylva Glomt, Stefanie Rosenbrg, Kern Schr, Jose Sailor Jaeger, MornhinnegsParner: Xaver Cave Emst Coppel, Volkmar Grossmam Kunst und Museumsschuir: Wolfgang Fucts,Jog-Dster Haack, Lutz Hens, Thorsten Schéne, WolgangLiebet Pro Derkmal: Uwe Benne, Janna Bune, Wolfgang Frey, Heer Sormer Kardort Ingeniesre: Volker von Kardott Michele de Lush, Heinz Jirout Nanna Fttrer Lubic& WoehlrActitlten:AlsanderLibi, Stefan Woein, architeltur-modele-bern Ginter Schwod David Chipereld Architects, ciger Hanmerschniat org von Bruchhausen, David Chipper Architects, Hisao Suzuki NEW ENTRANCE BUILDING, MUSEUM ISLAND Batin, Germany ‘Stitung PreuBischer Kulurbeste represented by Bundesant flr Baswesen end Raumordhung Scheme Design: Franz Burho, David Chipprtild, Ati Dunham, ChistophFelger, Mansour EKhavad, Carsten Gerard, Mette Heide, Gusta Langerskil, Christ! Piaskonsi, Mark Randel, Hau Ming Tse, Clive Ur, TonyVi-Suvento Prelmiary Desgn: Woligang Baumeister, Mirjam von Busct, David Chpperfd Christoph Felges, Dirk Gechwind, Klaus Heldwein Final Design Wotgang Baumeister, Mijn von Busch, David Chppereld, Christoph Felgr, Klaus Heldwein, irk Gsshwind, Mark Rardel ‘lexancer Schwarz, Mar Reichert Levin Monsiony: Martina Levin, Nola Levin Ingeniergruppe Baven: Frank Arnold, Alerander Rausch Jaeger, MormhinuegsPatner: Xaver Calvo, Ernst GOppel Kunst uid Museumsschutz: Wolgang Fuchs, Wolgarg Lieber, Dirk Panka, Luz Heske Nanna Ftterer architeltur-modele-berin: Ginter Schwob, Rdiger Hammerschmidt ‘3 Works: Marks Groeteke Hisao Suzuki HINTER DEN GIESSHAUS 1 GALLERY Berl, Germany (Cine, Aeneas and Heiner Basten Marina Betzod, David Chipper, Laure Fogeras, Andres Hartmann, Hannah Jonas, Harald Miler, Aleander Schwarz arciteltu-modele-erin: Ginter Schwab Studio Toi Yi-Swvanto Hisao Suzuki SPREEDREIECK Bain, ermany Miller-Spreer & Co, Spreedreieck KG David Chipperfield, Martin Ebert, Jochen Glemser, Christoph Hesse, ‘Mark Randel, Franziska Rusch, Toni Yli-Swvanto ‘Dewhurst MacFarlane: Tin MacFérlane, Marc Simmons, lan Stephenson architeltur-modalle-berlin; Giinter Schwob Hisao SuzukiLocation Client Team Associate Architect Structural Engineer Services Engineer Quanity Survayor Digit! imaging Models Model Photographs Location Client Team Associate Architect ‘Structural Engineer Structural Engineer of Record Services Engineer General Contractor Digital maging Models Location Client Team Associate Architect Structural Engineer Structural Engineer of Record Services Engineer Servioes Engineer of Record General Contractor Digital imaging Model Model Photographs ANSALDO CITY OF CULTURES Mian, tay Comune di Misno Diezione Centrale Tenia, Sette Mule Moste am Anronov, Tommi Araki, Renata Bailey, Judth Brown, Roberta Buccherl, Patick Camptel, Kevin Carmoo, David Chipper, Christian Clemares, Mario Cote, Luca Donadon, Amos Goldreich, Jason Good, Manuel Ger, Tales Hyatsu, Ferruccio laze, Serene Jaf, Wel Kiper, Akira Koyama, Amy Yee Ping Lam, Gustav Langerktd, Cuca Lech, lssandra Mailing, Carlos Martinez de Alboroz, Emanuele Matin, Sabrina Melera-Movetn, Rentaro Nshimua, Luca Pemeggiai, Sashwin Pla, Sergio Prone, John Putick, Oscar Rockiguez, Sia Scart, Nelane Schubert, Jonathan Slaughter, Tina Spt Males, Henning tunnel, AnatTlmor, Sara Terpesta, Hau Ming Tse, Patrck Uberbacer,Civer UIner, Laura Vega, Nicole Woodman, Toni irSwvanto, luseppe Zampiet Competition in association with P+ARCH Francesco Fres, German Fuennayer, Gina Garbeini, Monica Tiara FAP Architet:Emanule Botigela,Babara Canocn, Leopoldo Feyrie, Lea Lenardon, Davide Panzer Marco Pestalozra Saini Zambett: Alo San, Argelo Zanbet ‘Arup Ned Crowe, Emmanuelle Dans, Emily Emerson, Tin Hanson, Martin Hockey, lan Knowies, chard Kuehn, Forence Lam, Andrew Sedgick Manen intercnica ino Bo, Giorglo Marchirtt, Ugo Piubal, Ga Tim Gatehouse Assocates: Macoim Avil, Tim Gatehouse FAP Center: Antone Flores, Barbara Mini, Angela Toco Davi Chippetild Architects ‘Aedes, David Chipereld Mchiteets Mathew Marchtan, Vista models iso Suzuki Richard Davis, Tom Miler 0 Vero FIGGE ART MUSEUM, DAVENPORT Davenport ova, USA Davenport Museum of Art lohannes Baunstark, Fran2 Boho, David Chippetil, Jochen Glemser, Isabelle Heid, Vito Jesser-Pike, Reto Liechi, Laurent Mesmentel, Vicia Simoni, Jem Singer, Hau Ming Tse, Patrick Uberbacter, Reiko Yamasaki Herbert Levis Kruse Bunk Aitctre: Jil Anderson, Doug Fre Zach Heltzman, Cal Levis, Carey Nagle, J Mark Schmid, reg Smith Tom Trepp ef Wagner Jane Wernick Associates lames Packe, Jane Wernick (Gharies A. Saul Engineering: Jon Paul Goedken, Charles Saul ‘Arup: Archie Campell, Hilary Caton, Ned! Crowe, Matthew David, Tim Hanson, Rachel Hughes, Lida Johnson, Florence Lam, Chris McHale, Raj Peel, David Prichard, Andrew Sedgwick, Mike Summer, Mark Thomas, Nigel Tonks, Nary ousina, Cress Wakefield FussellPepper Joint Venture ‘tudo Toni Vi-Suvanto Davi Chipped Arcitects, Mathew Marchbank DES MOINES PUBLIC LIBRARY es Voins, wa, USA Publ Library of Des Moines Doreen Bemath, Franz Borho, David Choperfil, Matin Ebert, Chris Hadi Vitoria Jessen-Pike, Iona Klckenbusch, Hartmut Kortne, Micha Kruse, Kaori Ohsugl Kim Wang, ike Yamazai, Herbert Lewis Kruse Bunck Artitecture: Mindy ust, Ca Lewis, Bran Lindgren, Paul Mankin, Brett Mendental, Evan Shaw, Jon loa, def Wagrer cane Wernick Assocaes: James Packer, Kate Puve, Jane Wernick ‘Shus-Britson: Bob Brison, Matt Sherwood ‘Arup: Martin Hockey, Lidia Johrson, Adam Jawarsk, Florence Lan, ‘Andrew Sedgvick, Nigol Tonks KWH: Scott Bowman, Jef Capentr, Mike Dotson, Mike Lip, Vincent Mendez, Scott Scholle, Andy Thilen, Jeny Zieger The Weitz Conpany David Chipperield Arcitets, Sti Toi i-Suanto David Chipped Architects, Matthew Marchbak Richard Davies Location Client Team Landscape Architect Structural Engineer Services Engineer uantty surveyor General Conractor Models Model Photographs Photographs. Location hier Team Structural Engineer Services Engineer Quantity Surveyor General Contractor Models Photographs Location Client Team [Associate Architect Landscape Architect Structural Engineer Servis Engineer General Contactor Staircase Models Model Photographs Photographs Location Client Team Working Drawings ‘Structural Engineer Services Engineer Landscape Architects Photographs Location Client Team ‘Asscclate Architect Structoral Engineer Services Engineer ‘Quantity Surveyor Models Model Photographs Photographs. KNIGHT HOUSE ADDITION Fichmond, UK Nick and Ghafott Ksght David Chippeteld, Paul Crosby, Russ Hannon, Harvey Langston-Jores, lan McKnight, Clare Meller, Hening Stumm, ‘Anat Talo, Ad Yvers Bravo Miranda Brooks, Alan Hart IMicrael Hadi Associetes: Menge Had! {BDSP Partnership: Aan Farfeld, Anjm Osmen Tim Gatehouse Assosats: Tm Gatehouse Chisholm and Winch David Chipped Architects, Matthew Marcoank Richard Daves Hisao Suzui GORMLEY STUDIO London, UK Antony Gormley Kevin Carmody, Davié Chipper, Pal Crosby, Ancy Groarte, Kaori Ohsugi Jane Wernick Associates: Timothy George, Jane Wernick Envronmentl Engineering Perinershig: Nigel Bowater, an Wilson Carita Property Servoes: Brendan Henessey, oyn James, Joe Lehane Leonard Fie Group David Chippertild Architects Hisao Suzuki HOUSE IN MANHATTAN NewYork, New York, USA Hor. Nathaniel Rothschild Lodse Brooker, Kevie Carmody, Natale Cheng, Davi Chipper, ‘Andy Groart, Regina Gruber, Takeshi Hayatsu, Victoria Jessen-ike, Kacri Ohsugl, Andre Philips, Ada Vvers-Brave Fichard Lows Architects: Jason Gold, Richard Lewis Niranda Brooks Devhust Mactrtane and Partners: Russell Daves, Tin Mactaran, David Shea Lasto Bode: Laszlo Bodak Townhouse Contrcion Kircott David Chipped Architects Hiseo Suzuki Chistian Fichters PARKSIDE APARTMENTS, BERLIN Potsdamer Platz, Beri, Germany IMNAGO Real AG represented by CsT Development GmbH + Ce. KG Francesco Aouzzo, CrstophBartscheer, David Chipped, ‘Anette Fotrschatz, Michael Feyta,Ditk Gsdwind, ‘Amelie Haack, Andrea Hartmann, Kiaus Hedin, Darel Keppl, Karolina Marks, Marcus Matis, is Obertautsch, Cito! Piaskowsk, Antonia Schlegel, Mark Rene, Franziska Rusch, Tatana von Preussen, Thomas Wiedmann David Chipperfiad Arcitects ‘Suter & Suter Kai Alot, Thomas Sehdpt Ingenieurgeselschat fr Bauvesen THeodor Kein mbH: Maro Vogelsang Ingenieurgeselschat Ridder & Meyn nbH: Carsten Thomas, Flt Melzer ‘Thamanek 8 Duquesnoy: Ralf Meidner Chistian Pihters, Hao Suzuki ‘SOCIAL HOUSING, MADRID aati, Span Empressa Mnicial de a Vivenda Kin Carmody, David Chipped, Andy Groat, Takeshi Hayaisu, Kear Ohsug, Berard Tukens, Jonathan Wong, Mark Zorotzski José Maria Forndndez ela Arquitecoe: Mati Manuel Santolaya Horedo, ost Maria Fendnde‘sia Manuel Lines Saniago Sanz, Eni Fendnder Romin Juan F Serrano Quisnondo David Chippertld Architects, Matthew Marchbank Hiszo Suz Hiszo SuzuLocation Client Team Associate Architect Structurl Engineer ‘Quantity Surveyer Wodels odel Photographs Location Client Team Associate Architect Structural Engineer Services Engineer ‘Quantity Surveyee Restoration Consutant General Contractor Nodels Photographs Location Client Team ‘Associate Architect Structural Engineer Services Engineer Acoustics Consutant Quantity Surveyor Nodels Nodel Photographs VILANOVA APARTNENTS Viana, Spain Gant Meteraria Cristian li, David Cippertiele, Chistian Clemeres, Mato Catone, Vitra Jssen Pike, Luca Parmegeini, ‘Dean Pke, John Putck, Over Une, Giuseppe Zempier 0720 Aryitectua: Mar Ail, Kain Baungarten, Anais Bare, Carlos Fragso, ker Gi Jorge Joes, GaeteLaunerois, Jae Lope, Fernando Luna, Laura Marcoren, Eduardo Miles, Gemna Oa, Magdalena Ostono, Pato Pyro, Ricarce Schl, Doris Sewcay, Marco Suez, Fermin Vazquez Jorge Basco Estuctres Jorge Basco, Pedro Malina Innova Eings de Ges anbiental Magali Param, ioral Prt Saga Inenieria Serio Aros ‘Ardevo-JoanArdevl David Chioperteld Architects Hisao Suzukt ACCESS TO THE PASEO DEL OVALO, TERUEL Teruel, Spain Diputacin General de Aragdn David Chippried 720 Arqitectua: Mare Abiol, Crstina Ages, Albert Arr Katrin Baumgarten, Sonia Cruz, Ena Dunne, Eisateth Fars, Uri Grau, ita maa, Javier Lopez, Eduard irl, Agustin Miranda, “Takayuki Nakajima, Laura Pulido, Magdalena Ostoro, Doris Sewczyt, Picardo Shut, Ara Stack, Fermin Vazquez Maren els, Cstan Zenon tio! Moya Asociados: Agustin Otol, Josep Ramon Solé Perfil 7: Jose Felpe Martinez / GTi César Esparza Tiwal Técnica: Rael Cave, dose Fanlos ose M Sanz, Antonio Perez NEcsO Miguel woh Hisao Suzuki NEW BBC SCOTLAND HEADQUARTERS IN PACIFIC QUAY Giasgon, UK BBC Property \esna Adsentjeve, Gabrile Alan, Johannes Baurstrk, Doreen Bena, Kevin Carmody, David Cheri, Mario Cttone, Pau Crosby, desis Donaire, Martin Eber, Marin Egin, David Fray, Robi Foster, Annabel Fraser, Jchen Genser, Jason Good, Andy Goarke, Manuel Ger, Victoria Jessen-Pk, loa Kackerbusch, Daniel Ko, Merete Kristnsen, Laurent Masmontel, Takayuki Nakajima, Keori Ohsugl, Simon Pl, Bly Prendergast, Jemifr Singer, Ha Ming Tse, Olver Umer, Jonathan Wong, oi Yi-Suvato, Giuseppe Zampie Keppi Design: Les Adams, Nei Buchan, Norte Davidson, Christan van Dee, Jim Fachney, Alan Haniton, Hansh Inga, Richard Kuppuseny, John MacColl Jim Mctechnie John Miler Jane etic Associates James Packer, Jene Wernick Faber Maunsel: Scobie Aki, Stevn Ferguson, Jereny Gra, David bing Arup: Stephen Baty, Gretam Beale, Gordan Brown, Gil van Buuren, Nigel Cit, Darren Connoly, Graeme Gitney, Kevin Grant, Fred Robinson, Alan Rowe, Andrew Sedgvik, Paul Slama, Martin Surge, Tim Thomton Arup Acoust: an Knows, lan Thompsas Gardiner & Theatald: John Meechan, Sandy Park, Roy Weer avid Chipped Architets, Mathew Marsan, Vista Models iso Suzuki Location Client Team Associate Architect Landscape Arcitect Structural Engineer Services Engineer Lighting Engineer Quantity Surveyor Fagade Consultant Planning Architect Acoustic Consultant Digital maging Models Model hotographs Location Client Structural Engineer Services Engineer Team Model Photomontages Model Photographs Location Client Team Structural engineer Services engineer Mode! 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HOUSE Miami, Florida, USA Hon. Nathaniel Rothschild Kevin Carmody, David Chipperied, Dirk Falz-Sussenbach, Laurent Masmontl, Andrew Phillis, Billy Prendergasi, Caterina Polidoro, Martin Tomzcyk Fallen Diaz Achtets: Julio Diz Mirands Brooks De Los Reyes Engineering: Hectr de los Reyes TLC Engineering Jorge Reyes David Chiporeld Archies David Chippertield Architects, Matthew Merchbank iso SuzukiLocation Client Team Landscape Architect Structural & Services Engineer Diaitl maging Models Model Photographs Location Client Team Structural Engineer Services Engineer Mode! Photemontages: Model Photographs Location Client Team Mode Photemontages Model Photographs Location Client Team Structural Engineer Services Engineer Mode! Photemontages Model Photocraphs Location Client Team Structural Engineer Services Engineer Digit! imaging Models Model Photographs RESIDENTIAL COMPLEX, ATHLONE HOUSE London, UK Dwyer PLC Kevin Carmoiy, Davi Chippetied, Jason Good, Geraldine Fournon, Lauent Masnontel, Stephen Molly, Bily Prenéergast Wirt International: Nico Mortimer, Main Wirtz, Peter Witz ‘Whitby Bird end Partrers: Anton Sawicti David Chipprteld Aritects David Chippertield Aritects Histo Suzuki BAILUJUN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT Liangehu Cura Vilage, Chia Narada Real Estate Libin Chen, David Chipper, Annette Florschtz, Klaus Heldven, Cristian Hetrich, Big Kahl, Hans Krause, Anfe Oto, Andreas Pitre, Mark Randel, Lydia PoBigr, ing Zhao ‘Zheliang Industry Design and Research Insts ‘Zheliang Industry Design and Research Insitute atchtektur-modele-berin: Ger Schveb; Davi Chipperild Antitets ‘tudo Toni Vi-Suvanto Hisao Suzuki LIANGZHU CULTURE MUSEUM Liangzhu Cutual Vilage, China Narada RealEstate David Chipped, Arnette Flotrschit, Marcus Mathias, Andieas Piste, Eke Salina. Mark Randel, ‘Alexander Schwarz, Jthanna-SophieSyichalsky ‘avid Chippers architects ‘tudo Toni i-Swvan isan Suzuki BAMBOO FOREST VILLAGE CLUBHOUSE Liangzhu Cutural Vilage, China Narada RealEstate ‘David Chipped, Klaus Heldnei, Chistian Heich, Christof Paskowsk Angas Piste, Mak Randel, Johanta-Sophis Spichasky ‘Zheliang Industry Design and Research Insite ‘Zheliang Industry Design and Research Insitute David Chipprtild Architects ‘Stud Toni Yi-Swvanta Hiseo Suzuki RESIDENTIAL TOWERS, CENTRAL HUAIHAI ROAD Shanghai, Cina Lawon Group Johannes Baumstar, Franz Botho, David Chipper Marin Egin, his Hardie, Reto Lech, Kim Weng dane Wernick Associates: Jane Wernick ‘Arup: Ann Dezel, Andrew Sedgwick Davi Chipped Arhtects David Chipper Architects, Matthew Marchbank iso Suzuki Location Client Team Landscape Architect Structural Engineer Services & Fagade Engineer Quantity Surveyor Digital imaging Mosels Mocel Photographs Location Client Tean Structural & Services Engineer Quantity Surveyor Digtal imaging Motels Nodel Photegrephs Location Client Tean ‘Associate Architect Landscape Architect Structural & Services Engineer Digital Imaging Models Model Photegraphs Location Client Tean ‘Structural & Services Engineers ‘Quantity Surveyor Lighting Consultant Digkal Imaging Models Model Photographs Photographs Location t Tean Structural Engineer Services Engineer ‘Acoustic Engineer ‘Quantity Surveyor General Contractor Kitenen Photographs JOSE VASCONCELOS LIBRARY, MEXICO Mexico City Mexico Conacuta Ctatiano Billa, David Chipperield, Maio Cottne,Jesis Donat, “Jochen Glenser, Rein Gruber, Felix Hobson, laud Luci, Tekayud Nakajima, uta Parmeggian, Lean Pike, Sinon Pole, John Puttick, Oscar Rodrigue, Roque Vie, Philippe Volpe, Kim Wang, Giuseype Zamperi Witz iteration: eter Witz ate Wernsk Assocates: Jane Wernick Arup: Martin Hockey Andy Sedgwick, Nigel Tonks Tim Gatehouse Asstiates: Tin Gatetouse David Chippertelé Architects, Studio Toi Vi-Suvanto Matthew Metehbank Pichard Daves, Hiso Suzuki COLCHESTER VISUAL ARTS BUILDING Colchester, UK Colchester Borough Council David Chiprrteld, Luca Doradon, VetoriaJessen-Pite, Yuki Namba, Bill Prendergast, Takeu Shiniz, Pitippe Vobe Arup: James MeLear, Alan Powell David Langdon & Everest: Richard Hooper tio Toni Suvatto Fichard Threadgill Associates Fichard Daves CITY UNIVERSITY OF HONG KONG MULTI MEDIA BUILDING Hong Kong, China City University of Hong Kong Darid Chipper, Dirk Felz Suesserbach, Regina Gruber, Isabele Hae, Victora Jessen-Pike, Melissa ohnson, Laurent Masmontel Kaori Otsu) ily Prendergast ‘Aedes LPT: Catherre Chan, Paul Che, Keith rifts, David Reberts Uttis: lan Macdonald ‘Arup: Joe Corenza, Andy Seéguick, Nigel Tonks Nestal David Chipgrtield Architects Matthew Marchtank David Chipgrtild Architects ‘THE HEPWORTH GALLERY Wakefield, UK ‘Wiekefelé Netopoltan Distt Counc Cristiano Bil, Davi Chipper, Jesis Don, Jastn Good, David Gutman, Viioria Jessen-Pike Danie Koo, Cauda Luchi, Laurent Masmotel, ‘Stephen Malloy, Luca Parmeggiani, Dean Pike, ily Prendergas, John Puttick, Hau Ning Tse, Olver Uimer, Suseppe Zampier ‘Whitby Bird & Partners: Andrew Keeln, Anton Sawicl, Mak Whitby Dari Langdon & Everest: Paul Davis, Richard Hopper ‘Arup: Florece Lam, Andy Sedgwick Dard Chippertelé Architects David Chipgerfild Architects Dari Chipgertild Architects, sao Suauki Pichard Davies APARTMENT ON PORTLAND PLACE Léon, UK Private bth Brown, Kevin Carmody, David Chipper, Viet Jessen-Pike, Kaori Ohsugl ane Wernick Assoctes: Steve Haskins, Jane Wernick Environmental Engineering Parnershio: Nigel Bowater, lan Wisin ‘Arup Acousics: lan Knowles Caita Property Serices: Graham Davis, Brendan Hemessy,Toyin James ‘Aco Serves, Rosskopt + Partner AG Hisao Suzuki Spi Thans to: Cassius Teylr-Smih and Owen Fowler othe ep and spr, and Py Hs fr colatraton DAVID CHIPPERFIELD 1A Cobham News, London, NWI 958, United Krgdom FesetalerSvasse 3, 10178 Bern, GemanyUNA CONVERSACION CON DAVID CHIPPERFIELD ALEJANDRO ZAERA Me gustaria empezar dando un repaso a su historia personal, a su formacién, y finalmente a su relacién con la cultura arquitecténica en Gran Bretafia. Estudié en la Architectural Association (AA) durante la época en que Robin Middleton organizé un congreso sobre las Beaux Arts. Los Smithson dieron una conferencia sobre Labrouste;’ alguien més vino y hablé de Henry Hobson Richardson; y real- mente todo el mundo estaba metido en ello. El congreso tenia un reparto que incluia a Henry-Russell Hitchcock. Leon Krier, Joseph Rykwert, James Stirling, Anthony Vidler, Alan Colquhoun y muchos ms: era la primera linea del movimiento postmoderno. Este congreso era una respuesta a la extendida critica popular; la gente odiaba la arquitectura moderna, y si alguien intentaba defenderla, no encontraba muchas pruebas sobre el terreno para lograr que el publico en general le creyese. {Qué hubo en su formacién que le llevase a defender o intentar recu- perar la arquitectura moderna como legitimo ambito de investigacion? Recib/ las ensefianzas y la influencia de personas como Ed Jones, David Dunster, David Shalev y Patrick Hodgkinson. Este ultimo tuvo una profunda influencia en mi; era un moderno acérrimo. Asi pues, estaba usted en una especie de célula que era fruto de una época en la que el Movimiento Moderno se aplicaba exhaustivamente en Gran Bretafia en proyectos de viviendas sociales y escuelas. Si, era la época en que el grupo London Borough of Camdem Architects estaba construyendo sus grandes proyectos resi- denciales. Neave Brown estaba levantando las viviendas de Fleet Road, en Camdem, y Benson & Forsyth estaban haciendo Mansfiel Road, en Hampstead; en ese momento yo estaba estudiando en Kingston Polytechnic, y me estaba cuestionando todo. Durante esos primeros afios, David Dunster me aconsejé ira la AA, donde habia mucha mAs investigacién y creacién; asi que me fui ala AA, que me ofrecia mas oportunidades. 1 Conferencia de Peter Smithson, titulada ‘Once a Jolly Swagman: Some Thoughts after Labrouste’s Drawings of Paestum' (‘Erase una vez un alegre vagebundo: algu- nas reflexiones sobre los dibujos de Paestum hechos por Labrous [Londres, Primavera 2004] venice | would like to start by reviewing your personal history, your edu- cation and eventually your relationship with the architectural cul- ture in Britain. | was a student at the AA during the time when Robin Middleton organ- ised a conference about the Beaux-Arts. The Smithsons gave a lecture on Labrouste,’ someone else came and talked about Henry Hobson Richardson and everyone was really into it, The conference had a line- up which included Henry-Russell Hitchcock, Leon Krier, Joseph Rykwert, James Stiring, Anthony Vidler, Alan Colquhoun and many more. ..It was the sharp end of Post-modernism. It was a response to a general pop- ular criticism, which was that people hated modern architecture and f you tried to make a defence of modem architecture, there wasn't much evidence on the ground for the general public to believe you. What was it in your education that led you into the defence or attempt to recover modern architecture as a legitimate domain of research? | was taught and influenced by people like Ed Jones, David Dunster, David Shalev and Patrick Hodgkinson. Patrick had a profound influence ‘on me. He was a die-hard modernist. So, you were ina kind of spin-off cell from an age where Modernism was extensively practiced in Britain through social housing and school projects. Yes, it was the period when the London Borough of Camden Architects was building large housing projects. Neave Brown was building Fleet Road Housing in Camden and Benson and Forsyth were constructing Mansfield Road in Hampstead at the time | was a student at Kingston Polytechnic, where | was questioning everything. During these early years, David Dunster advised me to go to the AA, as there were lots more investiga tion and invention happening, so! went to the AA, which offered more opportunities. 1 Lecture by Peter Smithson entitled: ‘Once a Jolly Swagman, Some Thoughts after Labrouste's Drawings of PaestumA CONVERSATION WITH DAVID CHIPPERFIELD ALEJANDRO ZAERA De modo que, mientras usted estudiaba en los circulos modernos, el prestigio del proyecto moderno en Gran Bretafia decayé hasta el punto que usted lleg6 a formar parte de los conservadores. Asi es. Estuve en una institucién muy conservadora inten- tando ser progresista; y luego me fui a una institucién progre- sista y me volvi ms conservador. En Kingston se trabajaba de un modo muy convencional. Habia clases de fontaneria y estruc- turas; era un buen plan de estudios, pero uno se sentia un poco fuera: mirabamos las revistas y vefamos que en otros sitios pasaban otras cosas. La arquitectura posmoderna estaba empe- zando a andar y Leon Krier era una figura destacada. Fue una 6poca en la que se plantearon muchas cuestiones acerca del sim- bolismo arquitect6nico y la idea de la memoria. No se podia elu- dir esa atmésfera dominante que estaba poniendo en tela de juicio el Movimiento Moderno no sélo desde la éptica popular, sino también desde un punto de vista institucional. Se produjo un gran despliegue de energia en torno a la exposicion de las Beaux Arts ya las conferencias pronunciadas, que a su vez Ile- garon a ser muy influyentes. Es curioso que el modelo que se estaba proponiendo en el Reino Unido como alternativa al Movimiento Moderno fuese el Beaux Arts, que es también un modelo universal. En cierto modo, el Movimiento Moderno podria tener su fundamento en el proyecto de la llustracién. EI modelo Beaux Arts no es necesariamente opuesto a esos valo- res universales del Movimiento Moderno. Una de las criticas mas habi- tuales a la arquitectura moderna en otros paises tenia que ver con su falta de compromiso con los problemas locales, pero parece ser que en Gran Bretafia la alternativa al Movimiento Moderno era igual- mente universal. Recuerdo a Neil Levine haciendo una descripcién de la Biblioteca de Sainte-Geneviéve y explicando lo que significaba cada detalle. Habia una gran fascinacién acerca de ese asunto: sobre si la arquitectura moderna habia perdido el significado y la memoria hasta convertirse en algo completamente neutro. La ba el mundo acabé produciendo justamente una arquitectura moderna insulsa que no significaba mucho, asi que todo el mundo ambicién por llegar a ser universal al tiempo que se cam! miraba a las Beaux Arts, de nuevo. " [London, Spring 2004) NEUES useuM So, as you were studying within the Modernist circles, the prestige of the Modern project in Britain was decaying to the point that you became part of the conservative... Yes. | was in @ very conservative institution while trying to be pro- ive institution end | became more gressive, then | went to a progr conservative. Kingston was still working in 4 very conventional way. There were lectures on plumbing and structure. It was a good course outside, you were looking at magazines and you but you felt a bit on the saw that there were other things going on elsewhere. Post-Modernism wes beginning to happen and Leon Krier was a prominent figure. It was a period when there was enormous questioning about architectural sym- ory. You could not avoid an overbearing bolism, and the idea of mer atmosphere that was questioning Modemism, not only from the popu- lar angle, but also from an institutional point of view. There was an enor- mous energy surrounding the Beaux-Arts exhibition and conferences that took place, which in turn became very influential. It is curious that the model that was being promoted in the UK as an alternative to Modernism was the Beaux-Arts, which is also a uni- versal model. In a way, one could ground Modernism in the Enlightenment project. The Beaux Arts model is not necessarily opposed to those universal values of modernism. One of the most common critiques to Modernism in other countries was about its lack of engagement with local issues, while it seems that in Britain the alternative to Modernism was equally universal. | remember Neil Levine giving an account of the Bibliothéque Sainte- Genevieve and explaining what every detail meant. There was a great fascination at that point, about whether Modern architecture had jost meaning and memory to become completely neutral. The ambition to become universal while changing the world just ended up as bland Modern architecture that didn’t mean much, and everybody was look- ing at the Beaux-Arts, again.EATRANCE BULONG Lo que resultaba fascinante de este estilo decimonénico era el hecho de que se ocupaba del lenguaje, y esto era precisamente lo que se consideraba perdido en el Movimiento Moderno. Y termi- nabamos hablando no de las mejores versiones del lenguaje moderno, sino del cambio general que se habia producido. No deberia olvidarse que, por la misma época, personas como Manfredo Taturi o Aldo Rossi estaban cuestionando temas similares de un modo diferente y en un lugar diferente. Sin embargo, en Inglaterra, de un modo tipicamente inglés, todo el mundo miraba simplemente a Lutyens, Labrouste o Mackintosh. La gente miraba hacia atras; no era algo de dimensién intelectual, era sélo una tendencia gene- ral a decir: "Mira qué interesante era Lutyens". Lutyens era un gran ios dotados de atributos que el héroe que habia creado edifi Movimiento Moderno ya no parecia tener: un hermoso suelo de madera, una preciosa chimenea 0 una interesante silueta. Asi que usted aterrizé inconscientemente en una especie de oposi- cién conservadora que se enfrentaba a lo que llegé a ser la arquitectura postmoderna. Si, supongo que si. Ademés de los ya citados Ed Jones, David Dunster, David Shalev y Patrick Hodgkinson, también Su Rogers y John Miller influyeron en mi. Como ya he dicho, Patrick me puso bajo su tutela; yo solia ir a su casa de Bayswater a ver cosas de Aalto, Asplund y Kahn. Esto era muy estimulante, por- que Patrick me ensefiaba lo que podia ser la arquitectura moderna y, al mismo tiempo, lo que habia acabado siendo. El periodo pasado en la AA fue muy emocionante y estuvo plagado de figu- ras interesantes y diversas: Rem Koolhaas, Leon Krier, Bernard Tschumi, Nigel Coates, Zaha Hadid, etcétera. Luego estuvo usted trabajando una temporada para Richard Rogers. Si, después de dejar la AA, trabajé para Richard. De modo que, entre las opciones disponibles, decidié trabajar para un tipo més moderno, aunque su posicién era ligeramente critica con la arquitectura high-tech. Si. Estuve trabajando para Douglas Stevens, fue mi primer empleo; y mientras trabajaba alli recib/ una llamada de Richard para ver sile podia ayudar en un concurso, que era el del Lloyd's. Asi que trabajé en el concurso del Lloyd's y me quedé alli des- pués de ganarlo, Cuando me marché para trabajar por mi cuenta, yolvié @ ocurrir lo mismo: recibf una invitacién del estudio de Foster para ver si queria trabajar con ellos en un concurso; asi que trabajé alli durante un ajo y el ultimo concurso en que par- ticipé fue el del centro de radio de la BBC en Langham Place. Eso fue a finales de la década de 1970. ,Qué estaba oourriendo en términos generales, dentro del Ambito profesional, tras el desman- telamiento del estado del bienestar por parte de Margaret Thatcher? Seguin parece, fue en esos afios cuando se vinieron abajo los sue- fios ut6picos de la década de 1960. What was fascinating about it was the fact that it was concerned with language and this was precisely what was identified as being lost in the Modern Movement, One was {eft, not talking about the better versions of it, but rather the-general-shift that had happened, We should not for- get that simultaneously people like Manfredo Tafuri or Aldo Rossi were questioning similar issues in a different manner in a different place. In England, however, ina typically-Engilish sort of way, everybody was just looking at Lutyens, Labrouste or Mackintosh, People were looking back. It did not have an intellectual dimension, it was just a general move to say, ‘Look how interesting Lutyens was". Lutyens was a big hero who produced ouildings that were invented with qualities that the Modern Movernent didn't seem to have any longer; a beautiful wooden floor; a very nice chimney; or an interesting silhouette. So, you landed unconsciously in a sort of conservative opposition to what became Post-Modernism. | suppose so; | was influenced by Ed Jones, David Dunster, David Shalev, Patrick Hodgkinson, Su Rogers, John Miller, people who held on to the modemist tradition. Patrick took me under his wing, | used to go to his house in Bayswater and look at Aalto, Asplund and Kahn. This was very invigorating, as he was showing me what modern architecture could be and what it ended up being at the same time. This period at the AA was very exiting and it wes full of interesting and diverse figures, Rem Koolhaas, Leon Krier, Bernard Tschumi, Nige! Coates, Zaha Hadid. You then went to work for Richard Rogers for a while... Yes, when | left the AA, | worked for Richard So out of the choices you had available, you decided to work for a more modernist type, even if you were slightly critical about the High-Tech Yes. | worked for Douglas Stevens, which was my first job and while | was working with Douglas, | got a call from Richard to see if| could help on a competition, which was the Lloyds. So | worked on the Lloyds competition and stayed on after we won. Aiter | left to work on my own, the same thing happened; | got an invitation to work at Foster's to see if | wanted to work on @ competition with them, so | worked at Foster's for a year and the last competition | got involved with, was the BBC Radio Centre at Langham Place. This was in the late 70’s... What was happening generally in the pro- fessional field after the dismantling of the welfare state by Thatcher? It seems that these were the years when the 60's utopian dreams had crashed...Otra cosa que hemos de comprender es que en esa época habja una recesién econémica y también un alto grado de pesi- mismo. Cuando salimos de la universidad, nuestras aml habian quedado limitadas, porque las personas que nos habian dado clase habfan cerrado el estudio por falta de trabajo. Yo sentia enorme respeto por ciertas personas; me habria consi- derado afortunado si hubiese sido tan bueno como elas... y no tenian nada que hacer. Si esa gente no tenia trabajo, .qué opor- tunidades teniamos nosotros? Por tanto, era un clima muy extrafio para salir de la carrera e incorporarse a la profesién. Apenas habia concursos: cuando dejé la AA hubo uno (el Jardin Botanic de Kew); el afio anterior hubo otro, el de la casa del primer minis- tro irlandés; asi que todo el mundo participaba en cada con- curso, porque sdlo se convocaba uno al afc. Esto condicionaba el modo en que saliamos de la escuela y nos enfrentdbamos a la profesién: con muy pocas expectativas sobre lo que iba a suceder. Por eso no creo que supiésemos nunca qué camino ibamos a tomar. Es muy interesante que piense que su generacion retorno al Movimiento Moderno pero casi buscando mas la estética que la prolongacién del programa moderno. Suena a desideclogizacién del Movimiento Moderno, a su exploracion como lenguaje, liberado del contenido ideoléaico 0 programatico. Si, eso es exactamente lo que ocurrié en las décadas de 1980 y 1990. Hubo una generacién que intenté demostrar que se podian construir edificios que tuviesen cualidades fisicas propias, que no se comprendiesen s6lo como parte de una idea mas ampli Asi pues, en los primeros edificios de Herzog & de Meuron, Eduardo Souto de Moura, Alvaro Siza, Luigi Snozzi o Tadao Ando, lo que veiamos era una hermosa arquitectura moderna, y no parecia que hubiese nada malo en ello; por el contrario, era casi un alivio ver que la arquitectura moderna podia estar dotada de esas cualidades que la gente sostenia que eran sélo el territo- rio de la arquitectura histérica: buenos materiales, importancia de la luz, bellos espacios, etcétera. Asi que en ese punto uno se apuntaba y decia: "Bueno, mira, aqui tenemos un argumento en contra de esa critica generalizada de la arquitectura moderna. Por qué no pueden ser bellas las cosas nuevas?" Era la época de los proyectos pequefios. Souto de Moura estaba haciendo casas, Siza una pequefia sucursal bancaria, Herzog & de Meuron una galeria de arte privada, etcétera; y la arquitectura moderna se volvié sensual por un momento, con el fin de recuperar algo de terreno. No existia una postura ideolégica fuerte, y teniamos el Domus de Vittorio Magnago Lampugnani, que estaba recopi- lando y agrupando todos esos proyectos. Habia toda una serie de personas implicadas, entre ellas Enric Miralles, Josep Lluis Mateo, Eduard Bru, Herzog & de Meuron, Souto de Moura, Hans Kollhoff, etcétera; no podia decirse que fuese gente con menta- lidad ideologica, salvo en el sentido de que todos estaban inten- tando volver a conceder valor a los proyectos. Los proyectos pequefios indicaban el camino hacia delante. 13 The other thing you must realise is that at the time, there was a reces- sion, and there was a general level of pessimism. When we came out of college, our ambitions had been reduced, because we were being taught by people who had closad their offices, as they had no work. One was having enormous respect for people who | would be very grateful if |was as good as they were, and they had nothing to do. If these peo- ple had no work, what chance did we have? Therefore, it was a very strange climate to come out into. There were barely any competitions. When I left the AA there was one competition, the Kew Botanical Gardens and the year before, there was the Irish Prime Minister's house, and everybody participated as there was only one competition a year. it con- ditioned the way you came out of school and the way you hit the pro- fession, with very low expectations of what was going to happen. So | don't think you ever knew which way you were going to go. It's quite interesting that you think that your generation got back to Modernism, but almost looking more for aesthetics rather than for the continuation of the Modernist program. It sounds like a de-ide- ologisation of Modernism, the exploration of modernism as a lan- guage, freed from ideological or programmatic content... Yes, that's exacty what happened in the 80's and 90's. There was a generation trying to prove that you could build buildings that had inher- ent physical qualities, that weren't only understood because they were part of a larger idea. Therefore, whether it was the early ouiidings of Herzog and De Meuron, Eduardo Souto de Moura, Alvaro Siza, Luigi Snozzi or Tadao Ando, you were seeing beautiful modern architecture, and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with that. On the contrary, it was nearly a relief to see that Modern architecture could be invested with some of the qualities that people were arguing were only the terri- tory of historical architecture— good materials, consideration of lignt, beau- tiful spaces. So at that point you joined-in and said, "Well, look, here's an argu- ment against the generalised critique of modem architecture. Why can't new things be beautiful?’ This was the period of the small project. Souto de Moura was doing houses, Siza was doing a small bank-building, Herzog & De Meuron were doing a private gallery... and Modem architecture went sensuous for a while, in order to gain back some territory, There wasn't a strong ideological position, and you had Lampugnani's Domus, which was col- lecting all those projects and putting them together. There was a whole series of people which included; Enric Miralles, Josep Lluis Mateo, Eduard Bru, Herzog and De Meuron, Souto de Moura, Hans Kollhoff and SO on... you could not see them as ideclogically-rminded people, except that they were all trying to put value back into the project. The small project showed the way forwardPero yo ira que dentro de ese grupo habria que hacer una distincién con respecto a las ideas de otras personas de su generacién que esta- ban més interesadas en, por ejemplo, el expresionismo, el regionalismo 0 la construccién. Creo que la generacién en la que usted se incluye se interesa por el Movimiento Moderno como lenguaje, pero también hered6 cierta estética de la contencién, més que del exceso. Ademds, yo diria que entre usted y algunas de las personas a las que se ha referido hay una diferencia en el sentido de que en la obra de David Chipperfield no se aprecia ningun rasgo regionalista. Cada cual hacia su propia versién, pero en cierto modo habia una extrafia coherencia —no sé si deberia llamarse asi—, una conso- lidacién de esa generacién, porque creo que admitiamos que todos est4bamos haciendo lo mismo, aunque con algunas diferencias regionales. Miralles estaba haciendo una versién exotica, jugando mucho més con el lenguaje que, digamos, Kollhoff; y después del periodo heroico moderno —en el que habia que cambiar el mundo a gran escala— la gente estaba volviendo a hacer cosas pequefias. Ademés de Lampugnani, también estaba Kenneth Frampton que decia: "El Movimiento Moderno esta sano y salvo, y algunos de sus defensores estén demostrando que no es universal y anénimo, para lo cual basta con observar la obra de Barragan, Siza o Ando"; todos ellos hacian versiones regionales del Movimiento Moderno. Frampton estaba impulsando la idea de que ésta era una version mas enriquecedora del Movimiento Moderno porque aceptaba las condiciones regionales. Lo que mantenia todo esto unido no era el estilo, sino la intencién y cierta fe en la precision. {Cree usted que estar radicada en Gran Bretafia es lo que hace que su obra sea particularmente genérica en comparacién con la de sus colegas europeos? Me da la impresién de que, de todas ellas, su obra es probablemente la mas extrema en cuanto a la pura manipu- lacién del lengueje moderno, carente de programa, de referencias cul- turales e incluso de rasgos expresionistas. Lo extrafio es que, para mi, en ese contexto, no habia regio- nalismo alguno, en el sentido de que yo no trabajaba a escala local. Tenia pocas obras en Inglaterra; mi carrera se habia cre- ado a partir de pequefios proyectos repartidos por ahi. Tuve que reunirlos como una obra de conjunto cuando en realidad eran frag- mentos: es decir, un apartamento o una ampliacién por aqui, una tienda por alld, un pequefio edificio en Japén... ese tipo de cosas. Y por eso dirla usted que ésa es la raz6n de que su obra esté menos orientada hacia lo regional, que sea menos expresionista que la de otros. Si, no me interesaba tratar de expresar el carécter inglés en Japén, porque lo que realmente estaba intentando ver era qué podia hacer dentro de un contexto japonés. Creo que otra diferencia con la gente de su generacién, en los pri- meros afios, es que sus encargos eran principalmente comerciales, mientras que los de sus colegas eran mas bien de cardcter ptiblico. Usted no trabajaba en el sector ptiblico como Siza o Souto de Moura. 14 But within that group | would say there is a distinction between the ideas of other people from your generation who were more interested in, let's say, expressionism, regionalism, or construction... | think the generation of people that you include yourself in, is interested in Modernism as a language, but it also inherited a certain aesthe- tic of constraint, rather than of excess... In addition, | would say that between you and some of the people you refer to, there is a diffe- rence in the way your work is not bound to any regionalist traits. Everybody was doing their own version, yet somehow there was a strange— | don't know if it should be called coherence - but a consol dation of that generation, as | think we recognised that we are all doing the same thing, although regionally different. Miralles was doing an exotic version playing much more with language than let's say Hans Kollhof, and after the heroic modernist period where you had to change the world on the big scale, people were doing litle things again. Besides V.M. Lampugnani, there was also Kenneth Frampton who said: Modernism is alive and healthy, and there are proponents that are showing that it is not universal and anonymous, as you only have to look at Barragan, Siza or Ando, they were all regional versions of Modernism. Frampton was pushing the idea that this was a richer version of Modernism because it accepted regional conditions. What held this together were not style, but intention and a certain faith in precision. Do you think that the location in Britain is what makes your work particularly generic in comparison to your other European collea- gues? It strikes me that from all of them; your work is probably the most extreme in terms of pure manipulation of the modernist lan- guage, devoid of programme, cultural references, and even expres- sionist traits. The strange thing is that for me, in that context, there was no region alism, in the sense thet | wasn’t working locally. | had little work in England, My career has been invented through small projects, which were all over the place. | have had to assemble them as a body of work when it was really lots of fragments. It was a little apartment or extension here, 4 shop there, a small building in Japan So would you say that this is the reason your work was less regio- nally oriented, less expressionistic than other people are. Yes, | wasn't interested in trying to express an Englishness in Japan, as | was really trying to see what | could do within a Japanese context. | think another difference between the people of your generation, in the early years, is that your commissions were mainly commer- cial, while theirs were more of a public nature. You were not wor- king in the public realm like Siza or Souto de Moura,ocr House: Sin duda. Habia que salir y encontrar trabajo donde fuese, y luego intentar darle cierto significado. Me tuve que hacer un hueco a base de cosas sueltas. Por entonces también hacfamos muchos trabajos sin encargo. Cuando alguien nos preguntaba si nos interesaria proyectar una casa, lo hacfamos inmediatamente, en lugar de esperar a tener un contrato. Sabiamos que nunca se construiria, pero asi tendriamos un proyecto. La generacién ante- rior a la mia no habria tenido interés en basar su profesién en el disefio de una tienda o en la maqueta de madera de una casa, porque lo que querian era hacer universidades y ayuntamientos. Lo Unico Util en aquel momento era ser consciente de ello y seguir diciendo: "Bueno, una tienda de ropa no significa nada, no puede significar nada, es tan sélo una oportunidad para dise- fiar un pavimento de madera y una escalera metélica, y para hacer un agujero en un muro por donde entre la luz; en realidad, no estas haciendo nada demasiado interesante, estés adqui- riendo oficio, un oficio tactil mas que intelectual sentirme muy cohibido con respecto a la idea de dar clase, pre- sentarme a concursos y dedicarme a obras teéricas, o trabajos que no fuesen necesariamente encargos. |. Esto me hizo Pero en Gran Bretafia existia un enfoque alternativo. En esa época, en la AA habia otras personas que se movian en una direccién completa- mente distinta, tal vez mas comprometidas ideolégicamente, 0 senci- llamente més idiosincrésicas. Su obra nunca ha sido tan iciosinerdsica. Cierto, y hay que ser increiblemente fuerte para hacerlo asi; y hace falta mucho valor, pero lo que a mi me interesaba era construir, y me interesaba hacerlo en un clima que en realidad no precisaba de mi. Por eso uno se sentia derrotado, se sentia como un cirujano en un hospital en elque ya no se hacian ope- raciones; y por tanto, uno no estaba seguro de cual era el mejor modo de afrontar las cosas. Por otro lado, creo que entre nos- otros existe el deseo de hacer cosas que signifiquen algo; creo que si queremos comunicarnos, porque cuando construimos algo, dibujamos algo 0 escribimos algo, queremos que signifi- que algo para alguien. La cuestién es para quién vaa significar algo. Tal vez el Movimiento Moderno sélo tenia interés en sig- nificar algo para otros profesionales. Cuando hice el Museo del Remo, comprendi, de un modo pragmatico, que el entorno en el que construimos es muy local y generalmente contrario ala arquitectura moderna. Tuve que tomar la decisién de si real- mente iba a construir algo alli; y que si lo hacia, tendria que ser aceptado. No podria protegerme y no iba a recibir proteccion alguna. De hecho, el ayuntamiento estaba en contra del edifi- cio, Estoy diciendo esto sdlo como un ejemplo, pero me sor- prendié que en Japén no hubiese restricciones urbanisticas; sin embargo, lo que haciamos en Japén no lo podiamos hacer en Inglaterra, y no se podian seguir esa especie de ideas abstrac- tas, No obstante, habia algo en el Museo del Remo que nos llevé a decir: "Bueno, gqué hay de malo en proyectar un edificio que pueda ser popular?" Podria ser atractivo para los lugarefios y podria recordarles algo que les resultase familiar. 15 Absolutely, You had to go out and find work wherever it was, and then try to give it some meaning. | had to invent a position out of bits and pieces... We also did a lot of non-commissioned work at the time. When someone asked if we were interested in designing a house we designed it staight away, instead of waiting for a contract. We knew it would never be built, but we would have a project... The generation before me would not have been interested in making a career out of designing a shop or a wooden model of a house as they would have wanted to do universities and town halls... The only thing that was use- ful at that point was to remain self-conscious about it and to keep say- ing, "Well, a frock shop doesn't mean anything, it can't mean anything. it's just an opportunity to design a wooden floor and a metal staircase and make a hole in the wall and get light in. You're not actually doing anything very interesting; you're just assuming a craft, a tactile craft rather than an intellectual one’. It mace me very self-conscious about going to teach, entering competitions and doing theoretical work, or work thet wasn't necessarily commissioned. But there was an alternative approach in Britain. There were other people at the AA at your time moving in an entirely different direc- tion, perhaps more ideologically engaged or simply more idios- yneratic. Your work has never been so idiosyncratic. Yes, and you have to be unbelievably strong to do that anc it takes a lot of courage, but | was interested in building, and | was interested in building in a climate that didn't actually want you to. So you felt much subverted, you felt like @ doctor in a hospital that didn't do operations any more and therefore you weren't sure how you should best go about your business. On the other hand, | think there is a desire amongst us allo make things that mean something. | think that you do want to com- municate, because when you build something, draw something or write something, you do want it to mean something to somebody, The ques- tion is whom is it going to mean something to, Perhaps the Modern Movement was only interested in meaning something to other profes- sionals. When | did the Rowing Museum, | realised pragmatically that the environment in which one is building is so local and generally against Moder architecture. | had to make the decision whether | was really going to build something there, and if | was, it had to be accepted. | couldn't be protected and wasn't going to be given any protection by anything In fact, the Council was against the building. I'm just using that as an example, but it amazed me that in Japan, there were no planning con- straints, but what we did in Japan, we couldn't do in England and you couldn't follow those sorts of abstracts. However, there was something about the Rowing Museum that forced us to say, "Well, what's wrong with designing a building that might be popular?" It might appeal to them and it might recall something that is familiar to themLe he ofdo decir en otra ocasién que estaba tratando de desapren- der lo que significaba ser un arquitecto inglés, porque se estaba dando cuenta de que cuando trabajaba en Alemania o Espaiia las expectativas eran totalmente distintas. En lugar de esperar una sumisi6n total a las instrucciones del cliente, la gente le pregun- taba cémo suponia que iba a funcionar el programa, e incluso se cre- fan lo que les decia. Asi que ahora que esta haciendo proyectos pUblicos muy grandes, de una nueva escala y con un nuevo tipo de cliente, zcudles son las oportunidades que esto le esta brindando? 2Es capaz de teorizar? eQue si soy capaz de derribar la valla que habia construido a mi alrededor? Eso es como dejar la puerta abierta a un perro que lleva demasiado tiempo en una jaula: la puerta se abre, pero el perro se queda dentro, Supongo que me interesa des- cribir proyectos que no dependan totalmente de su solucion formal y sigo desconfiando de la invencién en arquitectura. Todavia circulo por la calle en distintas ciudades y veo algunas intervenciones de arquitectos que probablemente quedaban bien en su 6poca, pero que resultan llamativas unos cuantos afios después. Tengo un deseo intelectual y a la vez pragma- tico, y resulta dificil saber cudn honrado ser con uno mismo. No sé si sigo con las cosas que conozco sélo porque no puedo avanzar mas, pero todavia estoy cautivado por la idea de las res- tricciones. Me sigue interesando dénde se pone una restric- ciény cémo se controlan las cosas. Esta es una corriente que atraviesa todos los proyectos. Hay una arquitectura que se preocupa por explorar las cosas, que intenta constantemente tirar la pelota fuera del campo, mientras que hay otro tipo de investigacion que se ocupa de destacar realmente las restricciones hasta que se convierten en algo. Asi es: mi impresién es que los rituales dela vida cotidiana son los que necesitan que construyamos una arquitectura alrededor. No entiendo la arquitectura en s{ misma como un foco de atencién. Siempre pienso en ese marco en el que deberiamos ser capaces de vivir la vida, ya sea leer un libro en una biblioteca, hacer la comida en una casa o trabajar en la mesa de una oficina. Esta visién del mundo es intrinsecamente conservadora no porque rechace el cambio, sino porque se apoya en lo que se comprende. El problema es que, si se trata de hacer un marco, podriamos ter- minar poniendo muy pocas cosas, y creo que es preciso encon- trar un equilibrio. Es un poco como ir a un restaurante, Hubo un momento, en la década de 1980 y principios de la de 1990, en que cuando ibamos a un restaurante y nos sentabamos, acababamos con torticolis porque habia que mirarlo todo. Y todo era de disefio y todo era decir "vaya, qué interesante; zcémo demonios habrén hecho eso?"; pero luego piensas "un momento; ga qué viene todo esto?; gde verdad necesitamos todos estos chismes?" Por otro lado, no vamos a los restaurantes a alimentarnos; vamos por lacon- versacién y a disfrutar de la comida, algo que mejora sustancial- mente en un ambiente més bien hermoso. 16 | have heard you saying before that you were trying in some way to un-learn what it meant to be an English architect, as you were finding that when working in Germany or Spain, the expectations were entirely different. Instead of expecting total submission to the client's brief, people would ask you how you expected the brief to work, and they would believe what you told them. So now you are doing very large public projects with a new scale, a new type of client, what are the opportunities that this is providing? Are you able to theorise? ‘Am | able to break out of the fence that | built around me? That's like leaving the gate open for a dog that's been in a cage for too long. The door's open but the dog stays inside. | suppose | am interested in describing projects, which are not wholly dependent on formal solutions and | remain suspicious of architectural invention. | siill drive down the street in different cities and see architects’ attempts, which probably looked all right at the time but conspicuous a few yeers later. | have an intellectual as well as a pragmatic desire, and it is difficult to know how honest to be with oneself. | don’t know whether | stay with the things | 't do anything beyond, but | remain captured by the know because | cat idea of constraints. | am still interested in where one draws a constraint and how one controls the things. This is a current, which runs through all the projects. There is an architecture that is concerned about exploring things, trying to constantly throw the ball out of the court, while there is another type of research that is about actually enhancing the cons- traints until they become something. Yes, my feeling is that the rtuals of daily life are what you want to build architecture around. | don't see architecture in itself as the centre of attention. | always think about the frame in which you should be able to live your life, whether it's reading a book in the library, cooking a meal in ahouse, or working at your desk in an office. This view of the world is intrinsically conservative, not because it refuses change but that it bouilds upon that which is understood. The problem is, if itis about mek- ing a framework, you might end-up with very little and | think you need to find a balance. It's a bit ike going into a restaurant. There was a period in the 80's and early 90's when you'd go into a restaurant and sit don and you'd get a stiff neck because you'd have to look at everything. ‘And everything was about design and everything was about thinking Hmm, how interesting, how. on earth did they do that?" and you think “Hang on, what's all this bout, do we really need all that stuff?” On the ‘other hand, we don't go ta restaurants to get nutrition. It is about con- versation and enjoying your food, which is actually enhanced by a rather beautiful conditionEs como cuando vamos a comer al campo: encontramos un lugar bonito, junto a un Arbol, y miramos el mar y decimos "bueno, éste es un sitio estupendo para merendar", y entonces sacamos las cestas; es absolutamente fabuloso, pero a partir de ese momento sélo nos ocupamos de la merienda; no estamos todo el rato mirando hacia arriba, salvo que eso afecte a la cali- dad de la merienda. El hecho de que nuestro subconsciente sepa que estamos en un sitio especial es muy importante. A mi entender, nosotros podemos aportar mejoras y sensibilizacion. Eso es lo que me gusta de Japén. Simplemente darse un bafio es un gusto. Me encanta el modo en que los japoneses conce- den importancia y significado adicionales a las cosas que hace- mos en un dia normal. Y yo diria que ése es el lema de nuestro trabajo, o de mi obra y mi interés: que parece que no me inte- resa hacer una casa en un sitio que nos someta a su voluntad, sino que nos permita desarrollar mejor nuestros rituales, como algo especial, de un modo sensible. La cuestion es cuanta arqui- tectura se necesita para lograr eso. (0 en qué punto la arquitectura se torna demasiado ausente.) Una casa es lo mas facil, porque una casa puede construirse alrededor de los rituales. Hay otros proyectos que hemos hecho (por ejemplo el cementerio de Venecia), en los que la idea salié de decir "bueno, si vamos a poner paredes para enterrar a las personas, en lugar de organizarlo como una biblioteca, gpor qué no transformar los muros en patios?" De ese modo, el proceso de ir a poner flores en la tumba de la abuela adquiere un mayor cardcter ritual. En realidad no importa de qué estén hechos los muros. Hice un croquis inicial y todo sigue siendo igual; ha habido muy poco desarrollo arquitecténico. Evidentemente, hemos ela- borado todos los detalles y hemos intentado que las columnas de hormigén sean lo mas pequefias posible, pero no hemos hecho nada radicalmente distinto de aquel croquis. En el Palacio de Justicia de Salerno, en lugar de tener un solo edificio, deci mos hacer muchos edificios mas pequefios y conectarlos mediante patios, con lo que nos libramos de los pasillos. Sin embargo, hay otros proyectos en los que la arquitectura se con- vierte en un ejercicio de relaciones ptiblicas: es como la pro- mocién de la ciudad. Una nueva exigencia para la arquitectura es que llega a asumir un destino. Si el Movimiento Moderno que- ria cambiar el modo en que el mundo funciona y se industrializa, creo que ahora la cosa ha acabado de manera muy distinta: hay otra clase de visién, que consiste en cémo creamos los monu- mentos de nuestra cultura efimera. Algunos arquitectos intentan monumentalizar nuestra nueva vida con estaciones ferroviarias, aeropuertos, museos, etcétera. En el pasado, todos los concursos de museos estaban con- trolados por los responsables de su conservaci6n, con sus pre- ocupaciones acerca de cémo se dispondrian las colecciones o como entraria la uz. En cambio, ahora hay otra cuestién mas importante, algo asi como “gva a ser esto lo bastante atractivo como para situarnos en el mapa?". Esto ha aportado una nueva dimensi6n a la arquitectura. 7 It's like when you go for a picnic, you find a very beautiful place, next to atree and you're looking at the see and say "well, this is a great place . it's absolutely fabu- lous, but from then on, you just get on with having a picnic. You don’t constantly look up although it does affect the quality of the picnic. The to go for a picnic’, and then get the hamper out fact that you are subconsciously in a special place is very important. | think that you can enhance and sensitise. That's what | ike about Japan Just having a bath is a treat. | do like the way they give extra significance and meaning to things that one does on a normal day. And | would say that that is the motto of our work, or my work and my interest, which is that it seems to be that I'm not interested in making a house somewhere, where it subjects you to its intentions, but where it allows you more to conduct your rtuals, and tts like special, in a sensitised way. The ques tion is how much architecture do you need in order to do that. (Or at what point does the architecture become too absent...) A house is the easiest thing because a house can be built around rituals, There are other projects that we have done, let's say the Cemetery in Venice, where the idea came from saying well, if you're going to have walls to bury people in, instead of organising it like a library, why not turn the walls into courtyards? Therefore, the process of going and put- ting flowers on the grave of your grandmather is ritualised in a stronger way. It actually doesn't matter what the walls are made cf. | did a first sketch and it is still ike that. The architectural development has been very little. We have obviously worked on all the details and tried to get all the concrete columns as small as possible, but we haven't done anything radically different from that sketch. For the Law Courts in Salerno, instead of having a single building, we decided to make many smaller buildings and connect them through courtyards, o we got rid of corridors. However, there are other projects where the architecture he city. becomes a public relations exercise, it is as the promotion A new requirement for architecture is that it becomes destinational. If the Modern Movernent wanted to change the way the world operates, and industrialises itself, | think now it's ended up in a very different way, it's another type of vision, which is how do we create monuments to cur transient culture. Some architects try to mumentalise our new life with railway stations, airports, museums. In the past every museum competition would have been dominated by curators, with concerns about how the collections would be dis- played and how the light was brought-in... Whereas now, there's another bigger question like: “Is this going to be sexy enough to put us on the map?" Ithas brought a new dimension to architecture.vuavozw Me interesa su descripcién de la arquitectura japonesa como una serie de pequefias decisiones que conceden valor a ciertos momen- tos 0 ciertos rasgos en lugar de tener una postura ideolégica que lo impregne todo. Me he vuelto muy cinico con respecto al arte de justificarlo todo, cuando Io tinico que hemos hecho ha sido enlazar una serie de puntos. Una vez que hemos establecido un proceso muy racional e inteligente, se da por supuesto que podria seguirse con toda precision. Es como si no se tratase de dise- fiar una forma, sino de decidir cual es la serie de procesos que la producen para nosotros. Al final, todos estamos haciendo formas y nos sentimos inseguros y a disgusto haciéndolas; por eso todos tenemos la necesidad de justificar por qué estamos haciendo algo superficial como es el decidir la figura y el color de las cosas. No seria entonces eso volver a ese pragmatismo inglés con el que al principio de su carrera se encontraba usted tan incomodo? Vale, no intenta teorizar ni trata de encontrar una justificacién ideologica: es una operacién pragmatica apoyada en la dialéctica, aunque sin dejarla reducida a una sencillas intervenciones individuales 0 fun- cionales en diferentes partes del proyecto. Estoy de acuerdo. Creo que es el mismo problema que el de la fe. Una cosa es decir que no se cree y otra, realmente espan- tosa, no creer en nada. No se trata de que no creamos en algo, sino de que podemos haber cuestionado el proceso que esa cre- encia nos proporciona. El vacio y el peligro de no tener creen- cias 0 valores en absoluto es algo insostenible. Coincido en que siempre estamos trazando figuras, en que siempre estamos el giendo materiales y jugando con formas, pero no me trago la importancia que nos damos a nosotros mismos. Si no tenemos creencia alguna nos enfrentamos a otro problema; y en cual- quier caso uno tiene que cuestionarse hasta qué punto son uni- versales esas creencias. Durante mi carrera profesional se ha producido el hundimiento de ese gran sistema de fe que era el Movimiento Moderno; se abandonaron las grandes ambiciones en la arquitectura y, como no estébamos cambiando el mundo, aceptamos crear unos edi- ficios pequefios y bonitos. Y uno iba y decfa "es estupendo, es realmente hermoso’, y se sentia fortalecido por ello. No es algo revolucionario, pero es sorprendente lo que consigue. Yes lo que he dicho siempre: creo que los arquitectos hemos sobrevalorado nuestro papel, y es que no creo que al final seamos capaces de hacer tanto. A mi entender, en las décadas de 1980 y 1990 hubo jerto sentido una sensacién de retirada, comercial e inte- en lectualmente, cuando adoptamos un enfoque mas modesto. Ahora mismo considero que esa modestia se esté abandonando de nuevo: todos estamos cambiando el mundo, yno necesaria- mente por razones ideolégicas; todos hemos Ilegado a formar parte de ese proyecto de visualizacién que tiene que ver con dar identidad a las cosas. 8 ‘aAMB00 FOREST VILLAGE Jam interested in your characterisation of Japanese architecture as a series of small decisions that give value to certain moments or certain features rather than having an all-pervading ideologi- cal position. I've become very cynical about the art of justifying everything, while all we have really done was to join the dots. Once we have set up avery rational and inteligent process there is an assumption that it could be followed accurately. It is as if we do not design a form but decide on a series of processes that produce it for us. In the end, we're all making forms and we are all uncomfortable about making forms, so we are all trying to give reasons why we're doing something superficial, which is to decide the shape and colour of things Would that not be a return to English pragmatism that in your early career you felt uncomfortable with? Like, you don't try to theorise, or try to find an ideological justification. A pragmatic operation sup- ported by dialectics without reducing it to simple individual or func- tional interventions in different parts of the project. | agree. | think it is the same problem as with faith. It is one thing to say you don't believe but it is actually terrifying not to believe in anything, it is not that you don't believe in something but that you might have questioned the process that that belief gives you. The vacuum and dan- ger of not having any beliefs or values is untenable. | agree that we are always making shapes, ing with forms, but | don't buy the text that we give to ourselves. Without any beliefs we have another problem, but one questions how universal at we are always choosing materials and play- those beliefs are. During my career there has besn the collapse of the larger faith system of the modern moverient. There was a withdrawal of the grand ambitions in architecture and as we were not changing the world we accepted to create a nice little bullding. You would go along and say, “t's fabulous, it's really beautiful’, and you fett invigorated by it. Itis not revolutionary, but it is amazing just how much it dees achieve, and that's what I've always sai think that architects have always overes- timated our role, but | do not believe that in the end we are capable of doing that much. | think that there was in some sense a withdrawal in the 80's and 90's, commercially and intellectually, as we adopted a more modest approach. Right now | feel that that modesty is being aban: doned again, we are all changing the world all over, and not necessar: ily for ideological reasons. We have all become part of the visualisation project, which is to do with giving identity to things.mov) exco Cambiar el mundo probablemente estd pasado de moda, pero hay una auténtica necesidad de explicar lo que usted esta haciendo, especialmente ahora que esté ocupado en un proyecto muy grande como es el de la Ciudad de la Justicia de Barcelona. Por tanto, el hecho es que tiene que hacerse responsable de estas cosas, y no sélo responsable en cuanto a producir una nueva imagen para la ciudad, sino también en cuanto a organizar una especie de sistema critico para los ciudadanos que la usen. En miopinién, ése es un problema que tenemos todos: cémo actuar a gran escala. Y esto no tiene que ver necesariamente con la escala del edificio, sino con la de nuestro campo de actua- cidn. Estoy convencido de que deberiamos ser responsables, y describir lo que estamos haciendo y por qué lo estamos haciendo. Esto resulta més facil con unos proyectos que con otros, y probablemente ahi es donde reside el éxito definitive de un pro- yecto. Nos interesa ver cémo se comportard un proyecto como icio ptiblico, 0 cémo se entenderé el papel de un museo en e una comunidad, Este discurso es interesante, como también lo es el discurso sobre cémo deberia funcionar un cementerio 0 un palacio de justicia. La idea de hacer un museo en ciudades como Anchorage o Davenport —donde no puede ser sélo un lugar al que los visitantes vayan una o dos veces, sino que ten- dré que funcionar como edificio piiblico de modo permanente para toda la comunidad— nos obliga a pensar en como conseguirlo. En el caso del Museo de Davenport, puede que alguien no quiera ir al museo, pero puede que tenga algiin invitado al que si quiera ensefiar el rio, de modo que podria ir al museo, ya que es el Unico sitio que ofrece una vista del Misisipi. Por consiguiente, mez- clamos las partes ‘trasera' y ‘delantera' de la casa, lo que per- mite hacer un recorrido distinto a través del edificio. Y asi pode- mos contar una historia. Creo que tiene raz6n, deberia haber en esa historia una intencién que pueda explicar por qué hemos hecho cualquier cosa que hayamos hecho; pero no sé si la his- toria tiene que ser mas grande que el propio proyecto. Si, yo dirfa que si. No creo que la historia del cementerio esté diciendo "éste es el aspecto que deberian tener todos los cementerios", ni que sea ‘la solucién universal", pero en ese contexto creo que es una interpretacién que resulta comprensible. Eso es precisamente lo que me interesa. De igual modo, en Berlin tuve que explicar el proyecto del museo a toda la nacién. No podia escaparme sin tener que explicarlo. Y de nuevo, a ellos no les interesan los pequefios detalles; les interesa la cuestién mds importante que es la actitud con respecto a la historia. Todas las autoridades importantes nos hacen explicar los conceptos fundamentales y después de eso nos dejan solos con los detalles. Creo que esto es fundamentalmente distinto del enfoque anglosajén. Algo que mencioné antes, esa idea de recurrir a la tipologia o recu- rrira la historia 0 a los ejemplos, ya sabe... 19 Changing the world is probably outdated, but there is a genuine need to explain what you are doing, especially now that you are invol- ved in a very large project like the City of Justice in Barcelona. Therefore, the fact that you have to become accountable for these things and not only accountable in terms of producing a new image for the city but also organising a kind of critical system for the citi- zens to use. | think that it's a problem for all of us, how to operate at the larger scale. And larger scale isn't necessarily to do with the scale of the building, it's to do with the scale of our field of operation. | do think we ought to be accountable and describe what we're doing and why we are doing tt. | believe that for some projects it is easier then it is for others, and probably this is where the ultimate success of a project resides. You are interested in seeing how a project wil perform as a public building or how you see the role of the museum in a community. This discourse is very interesting in the same way as | find the discourse about how a ceme- ‘tery, or how a Law Courts building should operate. The idea of doing a museum in towns Ike Anchorage or Davenport where it cannot just be a place where visitors go once or twice, as it will have to act as @ pub- lic ouilding for the community on a permanent bases, forces you to think about how you might achieve that. In the case of the Davenport Museum you might not want to go to the museum, but you might have a guest who you ‘d like to see the river, you could go to the museum, as it is the only place offering a view of the Mississipoi, Subsequently, we mixed up ‘pack’ and ‘front’ of house and it therefore allows for a different pro- gression route through the building. So, one can tell a story. | think that you're right, there should be a purpose in the story that can explain why you've done whatever you have done, but | don't know whether the story has to be bigger than the project itself Yes, | would agree... don't think that the story of the cemetery is saying, “That's what all cemeteries should be like", or that it is ‘the universal solution’, but in that context | think that is an interpretation that is comprehensible. This is precisely what I'm interested in. Similarly, in Berlin | had to exolain the museum project to the whole nation. | just could not get away without having to explain it. So again, they're not interested in small details. What they're interested in is the bigger issue, which is the attitude towards history. All the relevant authorities meke you explain the fundamental concepts, and then after that they leave you alone with the specifics. | see this as fundamentally different from the Anglo: Saxon approach. Something that you mentioned earlier, this idea of resorting to typo- logy or resorting to history or cases, you already know...own, INDI wes hen ‘COLCHESTER Creo que ahi hay algo que tiene que ver con la consolida- cién. En cierto sentido, me gusta reforzar las cosas que ya estan en su sitio. En emplazamientos con cierto contexto, yo tendia a hacer lo obvio. El proyecto para el Neues Museum de Berlin nos ha obligado a tomar cierta postura con respecto a la historia. Al principio estaba muy preocupado, pensaba que tnicamente me iban a endilgar problemas de conservacién y res- tauraci6n; pero en realidad se ha convertido en uno de los pro- yectos mas fascinantes de mi carrera. Desde entonces nos hemos enfrentado a una serie proyectos ubicados en éreas muy delicadas, y ahora podemos empezar a ver esta obra como parte de una especie de continuidad. No me impresionan mucho las actuales representaciones del cambio, que sélo prolongan esa fascinacién que sentian los modernos por la desconexién. Me interesa mAs la cuestién de la tipologia, pero no como un statu quo, sino como un modus operandi. incluso si optamos por soluciones tipoldgicas, tam- bién las estamos trasladando. Se trata mas bien de buscar ideas arraigadas en otras anteriores, al tiempo que aceptamos que no estamos empezando con una hoja de papel en blanco. Si vas a escribir una partitura musical o un libro, evidentemente pro- curas escribir algo que no se haya escrito antes, pero al mismo tiempo eres consciente de que no eres la primera persona que escribe un libro o una partitura. No escribes sin tener toda una tradicion a tus espaldas. Sin embargo, a veces no hay claves intermedias. El proyecto para la Biblioteca de Des Moines tenia que situarse en una ciu- dad portuaria organizada segin un trazado en reticula. El solar aportaba poca informacién y se nos planteé el problema de cémo organizar una biblioteca en un parque. gCémo se puede hacer mas atractiva una biblioteca? Como se atrae a la gente a la biblioteca? 0 cémo se cambia la naturaleza de esta insti- tuci6n, descrita con esa imagen tipica de unas grandes escal natas y altas columnas en el frente? Encontrar métodos arq) tecténicos para lograr un umbral mas cémodo se convierte en algo muy importante. Hicimos un esquema en el que la gente podia atravesar el museo caminando hasta llegar al parque, e hicimos el edificio completamente transparente, permitiendo asi que todos los lectores se sintiesen parte del parque. Los proyectos arquitecténicos més atractivos son esos en los que se juega con el programa, o al menos con Ia intencién. Envolver simplemente con una piel un edificio de of as, sin oportuni- dad alguna de cuestionar lo que ocurre dentro, sigue siendo, con mucho, lo menos estimulante. Para poder hacer ese discurso se necesita tener la experiencia de lo que son las cualidades de una tipica biblioteca publica, asi que la tipologia es algo que también implica un programa; implica unas rela~ ciones entre la forma y el programa. Asi pues, si queremos ser capa- ces de hacer un discurso sobre cémo implicar a la arquitectura, mi impresién es que también necesitamos resolver esa tipologia, aunque sdlo sea para verificar si realmente estamos haciendo algo o no. 20 | think that there's something about consolidating. In a sense, | like to reinforce things that are already in place. In certain contextual settings | would tend to do the obvious thing. The Neues Museum project in Berlin has forced us to take an attitude towards history. At the outset | was very worried, | thought that we were just going to be lumbered with conservation and restoration issues, and actually it has become one of the most fascinating projects of my career. We have been involved with a number of projects in very sensitive areas since, and therefore you can start seeing the work itself as part of some sort of continuity. 1am not so imoressed by the current representations of change, which led the fascination of disconnection held by the Moderns. only suces Lam more interested in the question of typology not as a status quo but as a modus operandi. Even if we opt for typological solutions we are still moving them around. It is more to do with looking for ideas embedded in previous ideas whilst accepting that you are not starting with a clean sheet of paper. If you are writing a musical score or 2 book you ere obviously going Write something that hasn't been writ ten before, but at the same time you're not the first person who's writ ing a book or @ score, You're not writing without a whole traditior behind you However, sometimes there are no immediate clues. The Des Moines Library project had to be situated in @ harbour city organised accord- ing to a arid pattern. The plot offered little information and we were left with the question of how to organise a library ina park, How can you make a library more attractive? How do you get people into the library? Or, how do you change the nature of the institution, described with a typical image of grand staircases and tall columns at the front? Finding architectural methods to achieve a more comfortable threshold becomes quite important. We made a scheme where people can walk through the museum to reach the park and we made the building completely transparent allowing all readers to feel part of the park. The most attrac tive architectural projects are when you play with the programme, or at least the purpose. Just wrapping a skin around an office building with no chance to question what happens inside remain by far the least challenging In order to be able to make that discourse you need to have the expe- rience of what a typical public library condition is, so typology is something that also involves programme. It involves a relationship between form and programme. And therefore, if you want to be able to make a discourse about how to involve architecture my impression is that you also need to resolve that typology, even if it is to verify whether you are actually doing something or not.won Kove ‘También soy un poco escéptico con respecto al debate programa- tico, sobre la legitimacién de nuestra intervencién con la idea de mejorar el entorno. Pero, volviendo al primer punto, otra cosa que ha mencionado es que intenté situarse en una determinada genera- cin; cual es su impresién, por ejemplo, de mi generacion? Bueno, creo que cada generacién es capaz de concebir cosas de un modo que las generaciones anteriores no pudieron hacer, y no creo que haya nada malo en ello. Al mismo tiempo, cada cual es parte del proceso, y me parece incorrecto imaginar que alguien esta detenido en un momento concreto. Sin duda estamos mol- deados y profundamente influidos por nuestra formaci6n, pero al mismo tiempo creo que es obligatorio cuestionarse conti- nuamente con qué estrategias y métodos solemos trabajar. Entonces admite que necesita una referencia ideoldgica. Creo que hemos de tener intencién, hemos de saber qué esta- mos tratando de hacer y hemos de ocuparnos de ideas que estén més alla del proceso normal, Al mismo tiempo, parad6jicamente, hemos de contentarnos con la propia cosa, y creo que es muy dificil resolver esa incégnita de cémo situar nuestras ambicio- nes en el lugar adecuado. Sino tenemos ninguna, podemos hun- dirnos; y si tenemos demasiadas, probablemente estemos mal colocados. Sin embargo, hay veces que en ciertos contextos sentimos que deberfamos tener mas ambicién de la que pode- mos imaginar. En el contexto chino, hay que empezar por bus- car ideas precedentes de otros campos; mientras que, por otro lado, me sigo sintiendo obligado a hacer cosas que signifiquen algo. Ese es tal vez el modo en que yo usaria la palabra signifi- cado. No necesito obligatoriamente tener una ideologia, pero una cosa tiene que significar algo, y creo que las distintas esca- las de la arquitectura nos permiten ocuparnos de distintos gra- dos de ambicién. Si estamos haciendo una tienda de ropa, sdlo podemos ocuparnos de experiencias fisicas y sensuales. Supongo que mi carrera se ha construido a partir de ese sentido de la experiencia, y tal vez estoy limitado por él, pues estoy acos- tumbrado a hacer cosas pequefias y tratar de verlas en una ima- gen mayor. Es algo mas facil poner cosas pequefias en un marco mas grande que poner cosas grandes en un marco mas grande. Esto tal vez nos lleva de vuelta a esa idea de las restricciones. Su modo de actuacién se alimenta constantemente de restricciones, ademas de esa nociédn de que cada proyecto esta intrinsecamente relacionado con otras personas que le aportan retroalimencion. Tal vez en Espafia las condiciones sean distintas: se supone que usted es el experto y las clientes respetaran su decisi6én incluso aunque pos- teriormente cometa un crimen. Lo que en cierto modo me fascina del Neues Museum es que he sido capaz de mediar entre una serie de facciones distintas. Es un proyecto que tuve que hacer a la vista de todos; tuve que negociarlo con la Oficina Federal de Edificacién y Urbanismo, con el Departamento de Desarrollo Urbano del Senado berlinés, con los at 1am also a little sceptical about the programmatic discussion, about legitimising your intervention with the idea of improving the envi- ronment. But another thing you mentioned, going back to the very first point, you tried to locate yourself within a certain generation. What is your impression, for example, about my generation? Well, I think that each generation is able to conceive of things in a way that the previous generation could not, and | don't think there's anything wrong with that. Simultaneously you are part of progress, and | think that itis incorrect to imagine that someone is frozen in a particular time. You are certainly moulded and strongly influenced by your background, but at the same time | think that it is incumbent to continuously ques- tion what strategies and methods you use to work with, You acknowledge that you need an ideological reference. I think that you have to have purpose, you have to know what you're trying to do, and you have to engage with ideas beyond the normal process, At the same time, paradoxically, you have to be content with the thing itself, and | think that itis @ very difficult conundrum to set your ambitions in the right place. If you have none you may sink, and if you have too many you are probably misaligned, However, there are times when there are certain contexts where you feel as though you have to have more ambition than you can think of. In the Chinese context, you have to start looking for ideas from further a field, whilst on the other hand \ stil feel obliged to make something that means something. That is per- haps the way | would use the word meaning. | don't necessatily need to have ideology, but a thing has to mean something, and | think that dif- ferent scales of architecture allow you to engage with different levels of ambition. if you're doing a clothes shop you can only engage with phys- ical and sensual experiences. | suppose that my career has been built out of that experiential sense, and perhaps | am limited by that, as | am used to making smaller things and trying to see them in a bigger pic- ture, It is somehow easier to put smaller things in a bigger frame than to put big things into a bigger frame. So this maybe goes back to this idea of constraints. Your opera ting mode is being constantly fed by constraints, in addition to the discourse that every project is intrinsically related to other people giving you feedback. Perhaps, in Spain the conditions are diffe- rent, you are supposed to be the expert and the clients will respect your decision even if you may commit a crime later on... What fascinates me about the Neues Museum ina way is that | have been able to mediate between a number of different factions. Itis @ proj- ect that | had to do in the open air. | had to broker this project with the Federal Office for Construction and Urban Planning, the Senate Department of Urban Development, the conservation authorities of Berlin,