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Dan Kennedy Pages 1- 16
Frank Kern Pages 17-33
Ryan Deiss Pages 34-70
Timothy Seward Pages 71-80
Bill Glazer Pages 81- 88
Mike Capozzi Pages 89- 91

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS
with
Dan Kennedy, Frank Kern
Ryan Deiss, Timothy Seward
Bill Glazer and Mike Capuzzi
Welcome to Herd Building Formulas: How to Acquire and Develop a Hyper-Responsive List – THE
Most Valuable Asset of ANY Business – Online of Offline…taught by a Superstar faculty of 7-Figure
Business Builders including:
First up is The “Millionaire Maker” himself, DAN KENNEDY. Dan has spent 35 years mastering
“customer nurturing” and offers a unique perspective on holding the interest of readers/subscribers, fans
and customers over decades. Dan will share his strategies for the Care & Feeding of Customers &
Prospects to create MAXIMUM Lifetime Customer Value.
Dan shares his profitable insights monthly in the famous No BS Marketing Letter – the largest and most
read publication of its kind. He also shares specific information on marketing to the affluent – those least
and last affected by the roller coaster economy and least likely to make buying decisions based on price –
in his monthly Marketing to the Affluent newsletter.
Then you’ll hear from The Internet’s Bad Boy, FRANK KERN – on the Attraction & Creation of Raving
Fans. Frank holds the keys to building a hyper-responsive list. Not just any list; a hyper-responsive one.
His “rogue strategies” tend to fly in the face of popular ‘wisdom,’ trends and fads in online marketing and
have built and continue to feed a list worth millions in revenue, virtually whenever called upon!
Next up is baby-faced Dean of List-Building RYAN DEISS – don’t be fooled by his high-school-aged
looks. He has been in the trenches for over 10 years building a multiple 8-Figure Empire. Ryan is a
Member of Glazer-Kennedy’s “elite” TITANIUM Mastermind Group and is a self- made Internet success
who is one of the leading, if not THE leader in the world of ONLINE “List Building” Strategies. Ryan
will cover Red-Hot Lead Magnets, and much More.
And finally, the OUTRAGEOUS Bill Glazer. Bill eats, sleeps, breathes, lives list-building, but unlike
others limiting themselves to online media only, and even limited methods there, Bill utilizes just about
every opportunity but flying blimps over stadiums, and refuses to attend a birthday party unless he gets
the guest list. Bill will share his powerful Integrated Offline to Online and Online to Offline Strategies.
If you’re not already receiving the No BS Marketing Letter where Dan and Bill share their money-making
insights each month, you’re invited to take a FREE Test-Drive of Glazer-Kennedy’s elite GOLD
Membership. To claim $633.91 worth of pure money-making information including 2 issues of the No
BS Marketing Letter, visit DanKennedy.com. You’ll also have the opportunity to upgrade your FREE
Trial Membership to receive the Marketing to the Affluent Letter.
For information on more business and wealth building resources from Dan, visit the Internet’s only
official source for the latest news and information about upcoming events and resources at
DanKennedy.com.
And now here’s Dan…

NOTES
Dan: Morning. I have kind of a herd joke. I really like this joke but I
debated about telling it because there will be sensitive people who won't
like it. So the city relatives are coming to visit the relatives that own the
farm for the first time and they've never been at a farm, rural. These are
city folk. So they get to the farm and they find their way down the dirt
road and they get there. And of course when they pull up in the yard there
are chickens, pigs, goats and stuff roaming around everywhere. But up on
the front porch of the house waiting for them are the relatives. And with
the relatives there's one pig up there and he's got nice little outfit on and a
bow around his neck and he's got his own little couch that he's sitting on.
There's a little sun lamp shinning on him and he's got dishes and stuff.
They like are intrigued with this and ask about this pig. And they're all
“oh this is a very special pig”.
We didn't even bother telling you but about six months ago house caught
fire in the middle of the night and we would've died except the pig came
in and drug Martha out of the burning building and then came back in and
got me and drug me out of the burning house and saved our lives. They
notice and say, "Oh the pig's only got three legs. Did he lose his leg in the
fire?" Farmer says, "Awe no, no, no, no but a pig this special you don't
eat them all at once." See now I really liked that.
So there's herds and then there's herds right? And we want as special a
herd as we can have, which in a business sense means value, means
responsiveness, means equity means all those things. So everybody's
going to talk about building your list and from it building customer herds,
client herds, member herds and so forth. I mostly want to talk about how
not to wind up with a diseased herd, an inferior herd or a low value herd
and sort of what you do with them after you get them.
This may have already been done in my absence but its still, and I don't
know what the results are in this case. I know we have a lot of people
who are here at an event for the first time but that doesn't necessarily
speak to longevity. So again you'll learn more looking around the room
than you will at me. Everybody who's got like five years tenure or longer
with us just stand up. You can use the exercise. Stand up. Now again
you'll learn more looking around at them than you will at me. Stay up if
it's seven years. Stay up if it's 10, 12, 15, 20, There you go. LeGrand by
the way, it may not be accurate but at his age he doesn't remember. So he
was just going to stay standing up until somebody told him to sit down.
He doesn't even really know what we're doing and what room he's in. He
doesn't know. It's just everybody came in so he followed.
You will not find that same longevity if you go play the game at most
other information marketers' events or if you surveyed their lists. You
would find a much shorter tenure. However, you might find the same cost
of acquisition.

© 2011/Glazer-Kennedy Insider’s Circle 1
NOTES
So your total value has a lot to do with how long they will hang around.
And the most important thing for you to know about that, and this like
several things, so I will tell you it's a writer downer and guys that means
we need to see it, thanks. Every member of your herd is losing value
today as you sit here unless something's occurring today to increase its
value. This is not a static asset. Relationship, which is the real value
factor, not the list, not the fact that you have a list, not the size of the list,
not even the makeup of the list; the real value factor is the relationship
with the list, their perception of it, their sense of it, their valuing of it.
That's not a static asset. That thing is either improving in value or losing
in value every single day.
And you don't have to go very long doing very little to sustain it and
improve it before it has lost all its value altogether. So you went to all the
trouble to get them but you go ahead and ignore them or pretty much
ignore them for a few months. And you might as well not have gotten
them in the first place. So it's important to have a sense of how valuable it
is. So you can spend resources accordingly on its maintenance and then
it's important to have an enormous amount of paranoia about it losing its
value on a day-by-day-by-day basis. So there are factors that control the
relationship value. Here's the short list and then we'll talk about each one
of them.
So one is affinity, a sense of belonging and pride of attachment. So if you

stop to think about that for a second. So Bill, of course, was annoyed by
you and, by the way I live in Cleveland so I'm not fond of you either sir.
But would you stand up for a second? Yeah, there you go. So here he is
in his Steelers' outfit. I assume Pittsburgh is place of residence? But see it
could be place of former residence. You can sit now. That's enough.
There are actually, see if you go to transient cities where people all have
come there from somewhere else…so in Phoenix, for example, where I
lived for 12 years, there's a large bar that is a Chicago Bears bar. And
Chicago Bears fans gather there every Sunday. Chicago Cubs fans go
there for mutual torture and suffering.
There is a big bar in Phoenix that is a Cleveland Browns/Pittsburgh

Steelers bars and it's divided in half right down the middle and everybody
goes in their Cleveland Browns outfits and everybody goes in their
Pittsburgh Steelers outfits and they throw beers at each other during the
game and etc. So sports fan have enormous affinity and enormous pride
of attachment.
I have a friend now I race with at the track that will not race his horses on
Saturdays because there's an Ohio State game. And if it's the late
afternoon game it's not going to be over with in time to do what he needs
to do to race his horses. So he just doesn't enter any of them, which is his
business understand. So the business takes second seat to the Ohio State
game. And his barn is Ohio State colors. His clothes are Ohio State
colors. The horses have little Ohio State logos on their blinders and he is
firmly convinced that his horses are Ohio State fans.

NOTES
Years ago we had an owner who was a Jehovah's Witness and so he
believed his horses were Jehovah Witnesses and wouldn't race them on
certain. We did our best to convince him that horse, we got that from
somebody else, that horse is Catholic we can race him on Saturday. But if
you stop to think about it sports, alumni, fraternal organizations, which are
sort of dying with age in America but if you go back a decade or so the
lions, the elks, the moose. So people have strong attachment to that, even
in the sports example, even if he moved to Phoenix or moved to Florida
chances are he's going to be a Steelers' fan for life. And if he's to the point
that there's a room in his house that is decked out with Steelers'
paraphernalia he's going to move that room to Orlando and it's going to be
decked out with Steelers' paraphernalia.
You've probably seen the NFL commercials they ran before the season
this year where there's the one fan in Green Bay of the other team and
everybody else is throwing snowballs and stuff at his house because he's
got the wrong flag flying outside. Military, people who were in the Air
Force, who were in the Navy tend to have that stuff all around their house
and they tend to wear apparel and if they were in the Navy and they were
on a submarine they'd have a little model of the submarine.
So this is the thing we aspire to. We want the kind of relationship with a
member of our herd that the Steelers have with their most ardent,
passionate, committed fan. That's what we want and that is their asset. So
you kind of evaluate how well you're doing with this as one of the factors
that you think about. So I don't do it very often for a variety of reasons
including the fact I don't like to travel and I'm anti-social and all of that
but generally if I go visit somebody's place of business they, who is a
Glazer-Kennedy member, especially of long tenure they want to show me
their Dan Kennedy shrine.
And it may be just a bookcase but in many cases it's a bookcase. Its
pictures. It's a bobble head. Its stuff they've picked up at different events.
There's one who has a whole room that's all creepy. I have a letter from
some woman, I don't remember her name now but the headline on the
letter is, "You've got to get this damn bobble head out of my house." And
so she goes on to talk about how her husband is so Dan Kennedy eyes that
he has to have the Dan Kennedy bobble head on the dresser and it creeps
her out. She can't sleep. She can't have sex. She turns it around and then
he turns it back. Do you have that kind of it's a factor?
I think I showed this in a newsletter. This is a guy, this is his Dan

Kennedy wall and so, "I noted in your February newsletter your musings
on whether people were actually reading what you wrote or not. For years
now whenever I read something of yours that is particularly insightful or
challenging I type it up, blow it up in big type and frame it and put it on
my wall. I don't have many meetings here in my office but when I do I
watch people trying to read what you have written and then try to figure
out why a 52 year old man would have all these writings from one person

NOTES
on his wall frame no less." And then he goes onto tell me a long personal
story.
This is not that unusual. This is usual and frequent and common in
various incarnations. And so one way to determine are you there; is your
herd responding in the same way; is any of that stuff arriving in your
mail? Do they have a shrine at home or in their office? If you visited
would they be taking you and showing you their shrine. Now understand
any of this I tell you, I don't tell it to you from the standpoint of arrogance.
First of all it doesn't matter to me and second of all I am sort of bemused
by it.
And a few years ago a family came and was at an event for a day and there
were people. We had pictures taken and getting books signed and stuff.
And he was completely befuddled by the whole thing. I heard him say to
his wife, "Why would anybody want to get their picture taken with him?"
It was just a complete mystery to him. And I understand the mystery but
nonetheless this is the kind of relationship you want with your herd.
And that gets us all the way to the second thing, the attachment to a
person. Personality. Now there are business arguments for not doing it,
for being institutional rather than being personal. Most of the arguments
do not apply to most of you. There is the, what happens when you go to
sell the company to some great big, giant, big dumb company? Is it
impediment or is it not an impediment that really is not a concern frankly
for most of you. And secondly it's not as big an impediment as you might
think. But by and large a personality driven business is infinitely easier to
build and infinitely easier to build herd value in than is a non-personality
driven business.
And so for attachment to a person there's some things to think about. One,
they have to believe that you actually care about them and the results that
they get. It's helpful if you do but they have to believe that you do. Now
just as an aside that does not extend to you walking around in a hair shirt
and getting yourself whipped because most of your customers don't do
anything with what they buy from you. That's not your responsibility and
the two things don't equate. But they do need to think that there's
something going on here besides exchange of money. And it's particularly
important to the ones who actually do something because the ones who
don't do anything generally are going to come and go anyway.
But the ones who do something they often want your approval, your
acknowledgement and your recognition of the fact that they are doing
something and if you don't take some satisfaction from that it is apparent
and it will hurt the value of your herd. They want to believe that they
have more of a relationship with you than they do. So if you think about
this in terms of television personalities or entertainment personalities. So
a famous entertainer dies. Tons and tons and tons of people go and put
flowers.

NOTES
Think Elvis. The people who go every year to Graceland, so how long's
Elvis been dead? Anybody know? How long? How long? 33 years.
And why exactly do you know that? Well see my point? I mean no
disrespect but the very fact that somebody…so this is somebody; I'm
assuming you had no real personal relationship with Elvis. Okay. So
here's somebody and she's not the only one who yelled out a number, right
or wrong, so no personal relationship whatsoever with this guy other than
buying the stuff from him – records, going to see his movies. She has no
relationship with Elvis. Elvis has no relationship with her. The guy's
been dead for 33 years and every year thousands and thousands and
thousands and thousands and thousands of people make a pilgrimage. It's
not just go on a tour. They're really making a pilgrimage to Elvis' house.
Why? Because they, in many cases, think they had more of a relationship.
There's a thing when you hire entertainers, like for infomercials or

advertising, there's a thing called the approachability index. They actually
measure the top 100 every year in how many people feel comfortable
approaching them if they see them in a restaurant or walking around
Disneyland or in a mall, would they go right up to them and talk and tell
them a story and ask for an autograph or would they feel that that's
inappropriate? And of course the people you want to use for the most part
for advertising purposes are people with a high approachability index.
Home Shopping, QVC and Home Shopping Network entirely revolves

around the celebrity who's selling this stuff being, one, that people think
they have more of a relationship with than they do. So they want to call in
and talk to them and tell them their little story. So people who work
really, really, really well on Home Shopping, Joan Rivers, who many of
you saw at our event is like always number one or number two on QVC in
total sales revenue. And some other actresses go on there and just die.
They bomb and it's totally about this. Do people think they have a
relationship with them or not?
Ed McMahon had a much higher approachability index than did Johnny

Carson. So even though Johnny was in their living rooms every night and
everybody mourned when Johnny quit and mourned when Johnny passed
most people would not go up to him. They just felt there was some sort of
distance there. Whereas with Ed they felt no distance at all. So
relationship, interest, are you continually interesting to your herd?
Personally, continually, interesting.
So that in some cases they live vicariously through you. You say and do
things they wished they could say and do but don't or won't. You go to
interesting places. You meet interesting people. You have interesting
experiences. You buy interesting things and you have interesting
opinions. That's important. Do they trust you? Do they admire you?
This attachment to a person is an extremely important part of this value of
herd issue. So amongst the many ways that you can sort of measure it is
how much correspondence you get from people citing personal sorts of

NOTES
things. Either they're telling you personal things or they're relating to
personal things that you have told them.
The best, the best feedback is, and I'm not going to use their names, but
these are real letters. In the first two chapters of No B.S. Business, "You
did such a great job describing how I've been feeling." And then she goes
onto to tell me a big personal story, which I'm not going to bother with
you but are you connected to how they feel, not just what they're doing?
That's a measurement.
Another relationship factor, philosophy. They attach or fail to attach to a

belief system. So now I don't care if you are teaching something
extremely technical or clinical and the core thing of your business is, I
don't know, how to do heart surgery or how to fix cars or some
technical/clinical thing. You can't sustain a relationship based on that
training. However valuable may be it fundamentally is devoid of
emotional connection and relationship's all about emotional connection.
So you also have to have a belief system that you stand for and represent
and advance to which people either feel attachment or they don't feel
attachment. And so you probably have one. You may not necessarily be
incorporating it in your relationship with your herd but you should.
It needs to be interwoven and reflect in everything that you do. So I have

one. I don't really need to annunciate, take 10 minutes to annunciate to
you here because most of you probably know it. And I give thought to
everything we do. How can we be consistent not just with 'how to' but
with 'why to' with philosophical connection? All the way down to I
pulled…so we use cartoons and stuff. So this cartoon you've seen.
Related to the Wealth book. And she's washing all the money and they
won't be able to call us filthy rich anymore dear. I washed all the money.
Now that cartoon has a philosophical viewpoint about wealth.
You've probably seen this used. This is a little more subtle but so you will
notice I have not had myself depicted in a hammock sleeping and money
flowing from the sky. I have myself depicted with more than two arms
working feverishly doing two different things at the same time and money
is appearing. Why? Because I happen to advocate work. And I could go
through more cartoons.
So there's a philosophical component to this. Do you have one? Do they

know what it is? And are they attaching themselves to it? There's
connected. There's a mission aspect to this. So people tend to want to be
attached to part of involved with something. Again that has a higher,
more meaningful purpose than just growing their business, making more
money and certainly then transactions between parties.
Anybody in here quit smoking not too long ago and been a long time
smoker? Okay. And anybody in here say become a vegetarian in recent
life and give up meat? Well looking around that doesn't surprise me but
okay so we'll use you.

NOTES
See those two people; see he's got to be one of the most annoying people
here right now, right? Because what happens when they quit? They
become evangelical and annoying about it. Right? They are on a mission
now to get everybody else to quit. Some of that's misery loves company
but some of it is this shared sense of purpose. They have had this
revolutionary, revolutionary experience that son of a gun if I quit smoking
I'm not coughing up blood and I actually could get up before 10:00 in the
morning and I feel better and geez my closet really stinks. I had no idea I
smelled that bad, etc., etc. And now they want to go on a mission to
convert everybody else. Even Weight Watchers people. Anybody on
Weight Watchers? See even you're annoying. Well because they have a
tribal language of their own. Currently it's the point’s thing.
So if you're at a table with three Weight Watchers people all you're going
to hear for an hour is this thing is only seven points so I can exchange that
for this thing, which is three points. I'm plus or minus 14 points. And do
you know that that thing you're eating, do you know that thing has 412
carbs in it and if I ate it I'd be in a 62 point deficit for the day. And you
just want to blow your brains out right?
But so think about how their missionary zeal commits them further to the
cause, which in this case is a commercial enterprise. Think about the tea
party movement. For whatever you think of it and whatever good it does
let's not mistake the fact that there's an underlying commercial enterprise.
But there's also a grand mission to which people are committed and
evangelical about.
In the personal growth field Est was maybe the best at that ever and if
you're in personal growth, self-improvement of any kind you want to go
back historically and study Est. so when people are committed to and
evangelical about a mission of one kind or another they are more likely to
give you greater longevity, especially if they're successful at all at being
evangelical because if you get two or three other people involved how do
you gracefully quit? That's the basis of evangelical recruitment whether
we're talking about network marketing or we're talking about a church or
we're talking about Weight Watchers, whatever we're talking about. If I
can get you to go quickly get two or three other people involved it's much
harder for you to exit because now you look like crap with the two or three
people that you got involved. So mission is important.
Now for a mechanical nature frequency is very important. So looping

back to the fact that they're either growing in value or losing value every
single day, how frequently do we need to be in their life? Pretty much
daily because they're either going up or going down in value every single
day. So if your primary connection with them occurs once a month you
got 29 days of loss of value in that herd before you try and pump the value
back up, that's a bad equation. So frequency matters a lot.

NOTES
I mentioned that I had this meeting a week or so ago with the CEO of
Tupperware. Of course Tupperware also owns Beauty Control and other
brands. But they're a classic direct sales company. And we talked a little
bit about how that industry tried, for about a five year period of time to
eliminate a lot of the boots on the ground, manual labor, meetings, move
the whole thing online, and use more efficient webinars and so forth.
Some of the big companies nearly went broke doing it and Tupperware
never did it. He said something that I have used myself as an example
many times and that is that no matter what religion you pick, doesn't
matter what outfit they wear or what hat they wear, what God they
worship, what set of commandments they follow the one commonality in
all of them is they try and get everybody to a meeting once a week.
Well there's a reason for that. They need the frequency in order to get
longevity. So there's a reason that there's church every Sunday. It's
because seven days is about as far as they can let them go without losing
them all together. So frequency matters a lot. In our business this is what
our base level of frequency looks like. Now you know it but you may
never have added it up but depending on what level you're at and what
you're getting but there's one to as many as four print newsletters every
month. There's a Gold letter. There's a Gold CD. There's a Diamond
letter. There's the e-mail. There's the weekly fax. There are a couple
books a year. People put out four to five. Most people buy a couple.
There's blogs. There's all the online media, which I didn't even attempt to
quantify. There are six major promotions a year. There's events. There's
the catalog.
We're touching most members at least 279 times a year. The last I looked
there's 365 days. So we're a little short. But 279's a pretty good number.
And again if you go look at most info marketing businesses not only is the
touch not of that quantity but the touch isn't that frequent. You don't go
but a couple or three days without at least an attempt on our part being
made for another touch. Linked to frequency, constancy.
So constancy is really about institutionalized, standardized, things

happening, same time, a level of expectation, anticipation. So all real paid
subscriptions are based on the magazine coming every month and
generally speaking if you subscribe to House Beautiful and you want
House Beautiful magazine it comes the second week of every single
month. It doesn't come the second week one month and the next week of
the month the last week and then the editors all get busy and they skip a
month and then they send you a double issue. That's not the way it works.
It's constancy.
Monday Night Football occurs every Monday night during the football
season. Not some Monday nights, every Monday night. And for a long
period of time it was an institution in America, right? They lost a grip on
this in part because of the diffused media and online and so forth. But
those of us of a certain age can remember either in somebody's home or
usually in a sports bar Monday night that's where every guy was, and a

NOTES
good number of gals. But every guy. If you weren't at Monday Night
Football guy there was something wrong with you. And so that's
constancy.
The multi-level industry is always kind of done it. So depending on which

company there's a night of the week which all the sales meetings occur at.
There's a night of the week that all the opportunity meetings occur at.
There's a monthly rally, it's always on the third Saturday of every month.
There's constancy to what they do.
Next, presence in their everyday lives. So I call this omnipresence that

pretty much if they stand in their environment and turn around in a slow
circle they're not going to make it all the way around the circle without
some citing of something that is relevant to you and again go to a real
sports fan house, somebody who's an avid college or pro team fan and try
it. Most places in the house you can't make a complete circle. Go to a
real Disney Aficionado. There are probably only maybe four places,
maybe four in our home in Ohio and none in my office where you could
make the complete circle and not encounter something Disney. Well what
does that do? It reinforces the relationship all the time and then causes
longevity because if I left I got a lot of crap to pack up and put out in the
garage. So it helps with longevity. So this omnipresence is there all the
time in their lives.
Today we have all sorts of media so it's easier to do that than it used to be.
And note that I put it low on the list. There's the issue of value. It isn't
even necessary and in a lot of subculture information businesses there is
not direct monetary value. We sell money at a discount if we sell to
businesses but the people who belong to the Harley Davidson subculture
and buy Harley Davidson apparel and go to Harley Davidson rallies and
go to Sturgis once a year on the pilgrimage and all of that, they're not
getting any monetary value from any of that. They're just spending.
They're not getting anything. So there's not really even a fiscal ROI as
there is for those of us who sell in business niches. And there's more
subculture money spent than there is business niche money spent by a big
margin.
What does that tell those of you that are in business niches? It says you
probably put too much emphasis on the value and not enough emphasis on
all these other things that cause people to stay in a herd because the logic
says if I give them value and I give them a lot of value for their money and
they take what I sell them for 'X' and they use that to make 'Y' and as long
as that happens again and again and again why would they ever leave me?
Why would they stop coming back? That's a very logical, sensible return
on investment approach to a relationship between a consultant, coach,
trainer, advisor, a publisher and customer or client but it is fatally flawed.
Fatally flawed. That's not why people stay in a herd. We can argue it
should be why they stay in a herd.

NOTES
There's a small percentage of the people who stay for that reason. There's
a small percentage who stay, even if they get none of the other things and
even if they dislike the person because the value is so great. So I can't
stand the guy. But the value's so great. There's not enough of them for
any of us to make a living on. So the very fact that all these people stay in
these subculture herds and spend enormous sums of money on them and
stay for life with no ROI. Steelers fan now, Steelers fan 20 years from
now. He owns one shirt. He probably owns 10. He's probably got a lamp
with a Steelers helmet on it. And he's going to keep spending money.
And season ticket holders are going to keep going to the games. They're
not staying for value.
Panthers fans definitely not staying for value. By the way do you know
who the most important person is on the Bengals team? The bail
bondsman.
So the very fact that all these things exist with no ROI, no real value tells
you that you may very well be putting too much emphasis on the value,
not enough emphasis on everything else. The one little tactical tip I will
tell you about value is if you are delivering it you damn well better
document it. You damn well better demonstrate it, evidence and
document it at all times. Don't leave it up to them to connect the dots. If
that guy tells you his business doubled because of your stuff two weeks
from now he ain't going to remember that that's the case or that he told
you that. So you better be reminding him all the time.
Finally, dependency. Dependency when you can make it occur is better

than any of the others. So crack dealers don't have to work real hard to
keep their herd together. Dependency on the crack pretty much they don't
have to have a good location. They don't have to be in a good
neighborhood. They don't have to dress well. They don't have to send out
any customer newsletter. They don't have to have customer appreciation
events. They don't have to do any of that. All they got to do is have crack
and semantics and they're good to go.
My client, Guthy Renker, that I work on with the ProActiv™ business, see
one of the best things about ProActiv™ is acne product. For the most part
if they stop using it the problem comes back. So they'll leave the herd but
they come back to the herd a lot just because of the dependency. For
however many years they got that before it goes away, for most people
just purely because of hormonal changes and age and so forth, their
dependent on that product. Once they get results from it frankly we don't
have to do a whole lot in order to keep them in the herd because the most
they're going to be gone is about a month and one way or another they're
coming back. That doesn't exist in very many businesses but when you
can create it and the information marketing business is generally talked
about as pain of disconnect.
Craig Proctor is very good at it with the realtors because he controlled

their lead generation websites, controlled their lead generation recorded

NOTES
messages preloaded with his content. So there's a bunch of plugs he can
unplug when somebody leaves. If you are actually providing people with
leads or customers, if you are really providing them with traffic and you
have the ability to cut that off that's real pain of disconnect. Mike Jans in
the property and casualty industry does it very, very, very effectively.
Rory with Royalty Rewards, the business that he and Bill have built very,
very, very effectively. Once they get that merchant through the first 90-
days and get his customers connected to Royalty Rewards and they've
been promised all these rewards and they're tracking their points and
they're sending them their points statement every month and they're
sending them special offers every month for that merchant now to drop
out and go tell all his customers, "That card we gave you is worthless.
And all your points just went away and you don't get anymore goodies."
That's a difficult thing for a merchant to do. So pain of disconnect that
really is a fence around a herd.
The next closest thing to it is true emotional dependency. So if they do not

pay attention for a week or two do they start to feel withdrawal symptoms
about not paying attention to you, not hearing from you? If you want to
give it the acid test just don't send your stuff out for a month and see how
many call. If the phone ain't ringing three or four days after it usually gets
there I got news for you, you've got problems. So those are
the relationship factors.
Now let's talk tactical for a couple of minutes. So tactical implementation

of all of this first of all multimedia. All the media that you can use.
Different people respond to different media plus they will welcome more
frequent and constant contact if it arrives through multiple channels rather
than one channel. So if you're only showing up one or two ways it's easier
to overdo it and start oh my God is he here again than if you're doing it
through multiple channels.
Amongst the channels always print included. And I would point out to
you, by the way, and Frank said it yesterday, so I don't need them to
validate it today, all the most successful folks that you may think of as
online marketers pay close attention. They're all doing print. They're all
doing offline and most of them are also doing manual labor. So the irony
is they're all doing print and in many cases they're all going somewhere
standing on a stage and selling stuff. So if all you needed to do was online
media and they know more about it than anybody else on the planet. How
come that's not all they do? Because that doesn't cut it. Some will admit
it, some won't but it doesn't cut it. There is no substitute for a package that
arrives and gets opened because it evokes subconscious emotional
responses that go back to childhood – birthday, Christmas, opening
packages.
Our subconscious is deeply rooted at about eight years old. And every
time we touch that in people we really get somewhere. How many of you
have read the book The Culture Code? Good for you but enough. Write it
down. Go get it. I forget the author, it doesn't make any difference. You
can find it. Just go to Amazon. I don't agree with all of it but it's written

NOTES
by a very smart guy who has analyzed how products and services and
brands and companies really relate all the way to the deepest recesses of
the subconscious and the emotional system all the way to childhood
imprints, which are the deepest imprints we have. So one of them, for
most people, is the joy of opening a package. And maybe knowing what's
in it, maybe not knowing what's in it. You can't replicate that. Now I will
acknowledge also there are age issues with this. So how many of you
send email greeting cards and email thank you cards.
Well first of all how many of you ever acknowledge anybody? How many
of you ever send, okay, alright. So my stepson, I'm perfectly okay with
that. It's nearly a moral equivalency for them of an email birthday card
and a real birthday card. Now I'm not sure that's true at the subconscious
level but they would annunciate it as the same. They see no difference.
Now let's jump a generation and let's talk about my wife. Huge
difference. Enormous disappointment with a birthday Tweet. So there are
age issues to this but even so there's no substitute for a package. So if you
take that out of this whole matrix of frequency, constancy, relationship.
You take something out that is very significant. There should always be
audio if for no other reason than the fact that people will listen to more
than they will read in many, many cases.
So take a 60-minute audio CD, get it transcribed and see how long it is.
It's a lot of words. And while they might not read that they will listen to
it. So that's one reason.
Secondly, you can convey personality often better, as Susan will tell you,
our voice expert. You can convey personality often with voice that when
they read it…I mean we try and do it with cosmetics right? Bold facing,
italicizing, Copydoodles, all that stuff. But still we're not controlling what
they're hearing in their head because they read printed matter but we are
controlling what they hear in their head when we say it. So it should
always be like, I never know how to pronounce this but I'll tell you what
it'll be, thank you.
Here's what it means. It means the unexpected extra, which often creates
more satisfaction than anything else because the expected is the expected.
Right? So you paid your money. If you get what you expected, what you
were promised however perfect it may be. You pay for it. You expected
it. So if I'm, forget I'm an information marketer, if you're running a dry
cleaner and you clean all the clothes perfectly and you got them all
wrapped in individual plastic instead of the pants from one suit and the
jacket from the other are wrapped together. But even if you get it all right
and everything's perfect that's what I paid for.
If I unpack my suit upstairs and not only is everything right but oh look in
the pocket they put a little packet of stain remover because they know I
travel in case I get something on my suit. Well that's pretty cool. It cost
the guy $0.20 but I have a totally different now relationship reaction to
that guy and that place of business that I do business with. So the

NOTES
unexpected little gift in your monthly package, the little doo-dad, and the
customized calendar we sent out to everybody. That sort of stuff matters.
Nothing matters more at events and meetings and good cookies. Nothing
matters more. Got to have good cookies because everybody likes cookies.
Having the people doing the massage, see that's okay.
So what's new? Tactical implementation. No matter how well what you

provide works and ought to be focused on relentlessly. You won't
maintain relationship without periodic new. Fraternity, if they don't think
they belong to a meaningful group and they have fraternal relationships
within. For example, at an event like this, which is now, how many years
have we been doing the Info SUMMITSM, anybody know? Bill, hey how
many years have been doing the Info SUMMITSM? Seven years, okay. At
this point there are some people who are here and the predominant nudge
that brought them here is purely the fraternity. They got friends they don't
see at other times scattered all over the country. They got people they like
sharing ideas with. They got people they're connected to. Pretty much
they communicate with them generally, not often, not well and perhaps by
email and so the thing that put them here is that fraternity. Take it out
you're leaving out something very powerful in keeping a herd together.
Ascension. For the most part you want an ascension pyramid in your herd
because almost without exception the more they ascend the longer they
stay. Your worst attrition will be at the lowest level. Your least attrition
will be at the highest level. Guru's expansion of scope of influence.
Whatever your core thing is you teach somebody, somebody's talking to
you on the break. So he's got a marketing system for owners, a locksmith
business and he teaches them how to build their business up, all kinds of
stuff, get more customers, get better customers, put people into continuity,
build the value of the company – truth be told that kind of stuff…we're
done in a year. There's only so many – here's headline, offer. We're like
done in a year.
So if you stick to your narrow core range you will lose the interest of the
herd and you will have longevity problems. So you need to expand the
scope of your discussion with your herd over a period of time in order to
hold them. Now the good news about that is they want you to. So if they
buy you as an expert about 'A' they want you to be their expert about B-C-
D-E and F however unqualified you may be or however irrational that
may be, they want it. So the foundation is there.
So let's talk, skip this, and I get this question a lot, so what do you talk to
your herd about? Well ideas. Most people's conversations in their
ordinary lives, in their day-to-day are not about ideas. They are price of
snow tires, price of groceries, kids, annoying employees. They are day-to-
day, mundane trivia kind of conversations. In their business environment
they are narrow, often mechanical kind of conversations. It's taken us too
long to get an oil change done. What are we going to do to do the oil
change faster in this shop? They are not sitting around with their
employees. They don't have a peer group. They're not having an idea

NOTES
discussion. But ideas are more interesting. It's easier to build enthusiasm
for ideas than it is for the other stuff. So ideas. Information. You can talk
to them about information. The information that they will not go gather
on their own. You are clearing house for and synthesizer of. Now if
you're good at relationship with a herd you will have your herd sending
you all kinds of information. As an aside that's a little measurement of
how good of a job you're doing.
People here are constantly, "Here's an article you may not have seen.
Here's a book you may not have read". And so Vicky has a whole box of
stuff now to get home to me that people have been handing me during the
three days. If you're running an event and people aren't doing that with
you I suggest to you, you have a relationship problem. If they're not
sending it to you I suggest you have a relationship problem and your job
of creating and producing and putting out information gets infinitely easier
if a bunch of people are sending you information. Makes your task easier.
So you can talk to them about information.
Obviously your discussion can include instruction and that's what most of
info marketers focus too much on but it is part of the whole matrix.
People want to and feel better about themselves when they learn how to do
something that they didn't know how to do before. So instruction is
getting them to do something. Could be setting goals. Can be managing
their time in a certain way. Can be using a vision board. It can be how to
use a template for a particular type of email. So some sort of instruction
that they actually learn something. They got it and now they can do it.
That's good.
Motivation. A lot of people under do this. The vast majority of your

customers, clients, members, so Frank said it one way. Probably
everybody said it one way or another but the vast majority of them, if they
don't implement. If they aren't successful. If they don't get the results
they won't it is less about their lack of knowledge or capability then it is
about their confidence. Even people who appear to be successful by
comparison to others in their type of business or their community, most
people are not self-motivated, self-motivating individuals.
There's a reason. So today is Sunday in the NFL and a bunch of veteran,

professional, highly paid athletes will get a pep talk before they go out to
play the game. Logically this should not be necessary. These guys are
getting paid five million dollars to go out there and play the game.
They've practiced all week to play the game. Some of them are five years,
six years, seven year, and eight year veterans. They know how to play the
game. They should not need somebody standing up on a chair giving
them a pep talk and leading them in the cheer. You do that for Tupperware
agents. You shouldn't have to do it for highly paid seasoned veteran,
professional athletes. Watch what happens when a coach decides not to do
that. There's a word for it, two words actually, Dallas, Cowboys. Of if you
wish Wade Phillips. Okay either way.

NOTES
So we tend to under do this. If you aren't one way or another working on
their heads and bringing people to them to work on their heads you're
missing something. Entertainment. They better damn well be entertained
if they're going to hang around. If you're running the No Fun League
you're in trouble. A cartoon goes a long way. Personal stories, again they
want to relate to your personally, human interest stories, celebrities,
experts and people from within your herd. Current events, what's the
conversation already occurring in their mind? You better connect to it and
deal with it. And of course them. That's maybe as big an issue as
anything.
So very quickly I'm just going to show you some examples but I can't. So
how do you measure your success at this? How do you know if you're
doing it well? So there's objective measurements and there's subjective
measurements. The objective measurements are statistical. How are you
doing on retention? Month-to-month, year-to-year, same month last year.
Same source of prospects. Measuring your retention.
Value of each one per defined term. So very narrowly we measure your
value based on, at an event like this we measure your value based on the
average dollars per primary attendee at the end of the event. Now that's
not a retention stat but it's a stat. Disney manages dollars per head per
day. They measure just like we do in the seminar business. But value per
defined term might be their first year. It might be three years.
It might be their entire customer life. But how valuable are they? Your
success at ascension. What percentage moves up? What percentage move
up, how fast, etc.?
Referrals. How many actually bring you anybody? That's a very good
measurement because it's a higher standard. Involvement, do they play
when you ask them to play? Do they do surveys? Do they participate in
contests, etc.? And of course, responsiveness. Now those are objective
measurements that you can set up benchmarks for and you can measure by
the person, by the source, by the month, by the year and you can see in the
math how good a job you're doing at managing the herd after you get
them.
Subjective measurements, fan mail and personal correspondence. Are

they writing to you like they would write to Elvis if he wasn't dead? Are
you getting fan mail? Are they writing and telling you personal stuff?
That means they have a personal relationship with me. So I was going to
read them and show them but I mean these letters are all people telling me
about their alcoholism and their relationships and their kids and all of that.
And that says a lot.
Are they sending you gifts? Do they bring you stuff? Do they send you
stuff? Not necessarily big stuff. How many members of your herd made
something for you last year? You get a quilt? You getting cookies? Well
that's a subjective measurement but it's an important measurement.

NOTES
Success reports. Are they looking to you for acceptance, acknowledgment
and recognition? That'll keep them around a long time but the way you
know it is if they're sending you success reports or the only time you get
success reports do you go chase them in order to get testimonials? Are
they coming in voluntarily? Do they volunteer? Do they want to
participate?
So Craig Proctor paying to be here. Craig said to me before he came, he

said to me when got here, "Hey if there's anything I can do for you while
I'm here if you want me to stand up, if you need a testimonial," I didn't
ask him. I didn't have to go ask. He's trying to volunteer. And then your
overall chatter. I always say at events I want somebody to go spy in the
women's room and tell me what they're saying in the women's room
because that's how you know what the hell's really going on.
So chatter online, offline and in person. Those are subjective

measurements. Most important thing about that I'll say in closing is you
need to measure. You need to have these measurements. You need to be
cognoscente of it. You need to be aware of it. You need to be working on
it. Don't just be focused on how many. Focus on value because all the
equity, all the wealth, all the sustainability is in the value based on
relationship, not the numbers, not the list.

NOTES
HERD BUILDING FORMULAS

With Frank Kern
Bill: When we think about a guy who has worked really hard to build a list,
that is an ultra responsive list there's a few people's names that are on that
list. It's a short list. Two next people that you have certainly epitomize that,
the two next people that will be up here speaking. The first one is Frank
Kern. The second one is Ryan Deiss.
Both of them really get this. So we tapped into our friends and members
and we figured out let's embarrass them and make them feel guilty in
coming here. Although I don't think it's possible to embarrass Frank but hey
listen maybe you guys can do that. So with no further ado you had a lot of
time with him yesterday. Doesn't really require any kind of introduction at
all. The guy who is known as not Tony, not Tony Robbins. So I just call
him Not Tony, okay? Mr. 'Not Tony' Frank Kern. Here we go.
Frank: Hey everybody. How's it going? What am I supposed to talk about

Bill, list getting stuff?
Bill: You're going to talk about whatever you want to talk about anyway.
So knock yourself out.
Frank: Okay. Whatever could we talk about? So I've got some new list
building stuff that's working pretty good for me. So I've discovered some
stuff that's working pretty good for me. The things that you have learned
through the GKIC world have worked for everybody forever. This stuff is
working really well for me and I'm just now testing it. So it's very new. I
don't know if it universally works but my suspicion is that it will. So I'd like
to share it with you just to give you new stuff for me because I like to hear
new stuff myself.
So I have determined that not all lists are created equal. I determined that
by messing stuff up really bad and not making money on certain promotions
because I used the wrong list. So you can buy list or you can attract list,
right? Then as we have learned a gazillion times it's never really the thing
or the creative or the offer as much as it is the list or the market.
So what I'd like to talk to you about today is not really how to build a huge
list but how to build a list that buys stuff rapidly. And then how to attract
that list in a way that psychologically sets them up to already know I can
trust you before you have any interaction with them. Cool? Alright. Super.
So here's the deal. The way that I used to go about market research or
market getting or hunting or whatever was the classic way that's worked
forever, which is find out what people want and then give it to them. Right?
So the criteria that I learned for market selection is, I think I learned it from

Jeff Paul and then later ripped it off and swore a lot and claimed it as my
NOTES
own. But it was basically what was it? You have to irrationally passionate,
great in number and easily reached. Right? That was like the market
criteria for what you should be after. And it worked great. Made me a lot
of money. I taught it. Made a lot of other people a lot of money. It was
fantastic. The problem with it as it can kind of be a little bit too broad and
you can end up having things be a pain in the behind.
I'll give you some statistics here later. So I have created a new formula. In
my business this working exceptionally well and it begins with the selection
of the market. And a good market with what I've been doing has to have
four criteria, has to meet four very, very critical non-replaceable, non-
negotiable criteria.
The first thing, and this isn't step number one. This is a given. That
whatever it is that you're selling has to be of massive transformational value.
And that really is the result that you're stuff delivers has to be of massive
transformational value. I like to sell expensive stuff because when you sell
expensive stuff you can spend a lot of money to acquire the sale and when
you can spend a lot of money to acquire the sale you can market your behind
off where other people cannot. You can market more aggressively. So I like
to sell things now in the $8,000 to $12,000 range.
So when you're doing that the result of your information has to be of

massive transformational value. So when we sell information we're almost
always selling change or improvement in our little world. Like I said it
yesterday, no one's going to buy a course on how to make your life worse or
how to lose money or how to get fatter. Actually sumo wrestlers might or
how to screw up your children somehow or whatever. How to get even
worse on drugs. So we're always trying to have improvement.
So when you're examining what it is you're selling you want the outcome of
the information, if your customers applied it properly, to be something that
would massively transform their lives for the better. This justifies your
higher price, right? So an example of that would be I worked with someone
who sold addiction recovery stuff and this guy had a way to get people to
stop smoking crack or whatever quickly instead of them going to rehab 20
times and all that crack. So that's massive transformational value, right?
The guy takes the stuff, he quits smoking crack, his life is immediately
changed, all is well. How to make more money, how to get more patients,
whatever, massive transformational value, right? You saved the business
from going under. The guy feeds his family. Big deal. How to change a
light bulb not so transformational. Yeah you get it? Okay. So we are
taking that as a given with these criteria.
So with that said our first thing that the market has to meet, the first
requirement that the market has to meet is that they must immediately and
easily recognize the value of what it is you're selling. They have to
immediately and easily recognize the value of what you are selling and I'll
give you the example from which I learn this, AKA school of hard knocks.

So I started a company over the summer and we were selling done-for-you
NOTES
internet marketing. So we would go to small businesses and we would build
them a direct response website with all their information on there. Then we
would get them, we'd write their Google ads and we would manage their
Google campaigns and we would pay for their traffic and we would just
handle it for them because they didn't want to mess with it.
So we started out and being the genius that I am with a capital 'G' we
decided to go after plumbers because I just literally pulled plumbers out of
my behind. I was like, "Hey forget it. Let's try plumbers." So I bought a
list of 30 something thousand plumbers and got myself a partner and built
a phone room and we started cold calling these plumbers basically saying
do you want to buy our stuff or whatever. And we did okay but not nearly
as well as I thought we would do. And I was like, "What in the hell is
wrong?" These guys want this stuff. I would write ads and they'd
respond. Yes I want to get more plumbing customers and all this kind of
stuff. And I was just like man this is some weird stuff.
So finally after talking to plumber number three, 35,000 or something, I had

one of the guys in the phone room. I was like, "Hey man ask them how
much each new customer's worth to them." So they did and we started
asking that. And the numbers that they were feeding back to us were each
new customer was worth on average about $500 bucks. Now our thing of
massive transformational value that we were selling was we could deliver
on average without puffery about 10 new customers a month just doing
some Adwords for them and just basic internet marketing stuff. Nothing
fancy. No launches. Just, "Here's your stuff. Here's a good website
instead of a stupid one." So we would tell them that. We'd say, "We could
probably get you about 10 customers a month. I'm not going to promise you
a million of them but 10s better than none." Blah, blah, blah.
So I started doing the math and what I learned was so 10 new customers a
month at $500 a customer is $5,000 increase in revenue per month for that
plumber, which on the surface looks great.
So then he's always like, "Well how does all that really shake out?" So the
plumber almost literally has to wade through feces to make the $5,000,
right? And then he's got to pay for the trucks and pay for the meth head
assistant he's got and pay the workman's comp and all this kind of stuff. At
the end of the day that $5,000 probably turns into $1500. So we're asking
him to take a chance, that's criteria number one. For those of you at home
who are following along, we're asking him to take a chance on us strangers
over the telephone and give us around, what the hell are we charging?
Around $500 bucks a month was our service, is what we cost. Around $500
a month to ultimately make another $1500 if we were not lying.
So while he was like awe it's a little bit more money he didn't immediately
recognize it. You following me? So then I was like, "Well no wonder
we're not having a good run with this." So then we decided to switch to
chiropractors. So we'd take the call of the chiropractors and we start off

asking them what their average patient was worth and they told us…they
NOTES
calculated this by the year, interestingly enough, where the plumber did not.
I guess the chiropractors are more sophisticated.
They said the average patient was worth between $6,000 and $30,000 a
year. This is what they told us. I don't know if that's statistically accurate
for the chiropractors here but that's what our guys on the phone told us. So
go back to what we're offering. Our magic did not change. We could get
them about 10 new patients just like we could the plumber about 10 new
dudes with broken toilets. You're not doing anything different.
But now when we look at this we are able to provide 10 times at the low
side every month that's an additional $60,000 worth of revenue for the year
that we added to this guy's bottom line. You following me so far? The
guy's making $6,000 per patient as opposed to $500 per customer. So he
was immediately more receptive, the chiropractors were, why? Because
they immediately recognized the transformational value of what we had to
offer. We didn't change. Our stuff did not change. Our prices went up. We
tripled them actually. Charged a lot more money and our conversion rates
went up. So that's thing number one when you're selecting the herd that you
want to build. You start right by targeting the right people and you have to
really, really narrow it down.
Thing number two is, and everybody knows this, but I'm going to say it
anyway because I too have forgotten it on many, many occasions. They
have to be able to afford what it is that you have to offer. So that's obvious,
right? Don't sell to broke people. But there's a word I'd like you to write
down in front of the word 'afford' and that is 'easily.' You want to target
people in your herd who can easily afford what it is that you have to offer.
Back to our tale of woe and tragedy narrowly averted with the company
over the summer.
A little horse this morning. I think it's the cold air. Thanks for bearing with
me. I didn't party last night by the way. I was good. I tried to watch that
movie with Cameron Diaz and Tom Cruise. It was horrible. You guys see
that where Tom Cruise was like this rogue secret agent or something? I
turned it off. Even though it had Cameron Diaz in it.
So anyway easily afford.
So let's go back to plumbers right? So they're like, "Awe we make $500

bucks a customer. It's okay. Some of them bought, whatever." Turns out
from our research, I don't know if it's correct because it's us, but our
research was saying that the plumber's average guy's making about $60 to
$80 grand a year. Now our stuff is about $500 bucks a month, $6,000 a year
for the plumber, right? That's 10% of his income. So can he afford it? Yes.
Can he easily afford it? No.
We switch over the chiropractors. They make a lot more money easily
afford, right? If we were really smart we would've targeted some sort of a

cosmetic surgeons or something who's customer or patient value was a lot
NOTES
higher who made loads of money. Yeah. So easily afford. You want to
filter all this stuff out before you even start because what good is a load of
leads if you can't convert them? If they're the wrong leads you're wasting
your money or lists or herd or whatever you want to refer to them as.
So piece of criteria number three because criteria now come in pieces is I've
totally forgotten. Oh yes apply. And this is something I bet you ain't never
heard before unless you've taken a class from me and my man Kevin.
So this is directly attributable to us specifically as information marketers

and probably nobody ever discusses this because they're not weirdoes like
me who stay up all night thinking about this kind of stuff.
But here's the thing, whenever we make a major decision whether it's a
buying decision or a relationship decision or any like big deal decision we
play a movie in our heads of what the outcome of that decision is likely to
produce. We don't consciously do this, it's just a reaction. So you've
probably done it. You've contemplated getting a new car and you envision
yourself in the car. You imagine your friends' reaction to your decision to
purchase the car. You do it. We all do it. When we buy a house you
envision sitting around the little breakfast nook with the kids or whatever or
building your bondage and domination room in the basement, den or
whatever it is that you want to do. And Bill. Okay let's keep everyone
included, mainly Bill. Not that there's anything wrong with that. That's
who you are.
So we all play those movies. The same thing happens with information
product purchases, especially when they're expensive. So you have two
types of people who are going to buy your stuff. People who are likely to
apply your information and people who are not. Let's start with those who
are not likely to apply and why they are bad. First of all, they're bad for
business because if they don't apply your information what are they not
going to get ever? Exactly. So if they don't get results what are they
unlikely to ever do? Buy more of your product. Right.
So it doesn't matter if you have the best information ever and it is presented
in a solid gold briefcase that when you open it the light comes out like in
Pulp Fiction. It has no bearing on you. If you're selling to people who do
not apply your stuff they won't get any results. That's bad thing number one
about them.
Bad thing number two about them is that you will ultimately get weirded out
because if you attract people who aren't likely to apply and they don't get
results, at least it's happened to me, you're like, "Is it me? Is it my
stuff? Am I not doing it right? No one's doing anything." And it'll just mess
you up psychologically and you'll feel weirded out. It'll make it you not
want to sell them to anymore because it's just no fun. That's kind of why I
work with small business now because they do stuff.

Thing number three and most significant about those who are unlikely to
NOTES
apply versus those who are likely to apply is the movie that this played in
their head. So someone who is unlikely to apply plays a movie where the
starring role of that movie is their own fantasy, their own sense of fiction.
And we've all probably had a similar experience whether it's with an
information product or exercise device, diet book or whatever it may be,
right? So you're contemplating the decision and you play the movie in your
head and we'll do it with the Make Money course. You play the movie in
your head. The course comes. You open it. The golden light shines out
like in Pulp Fiction. No work ever occurs. The middle of the movie's like
kind of cloudy and at the end of the day based on pure hope somehow it
works miraculously. Money falls from the sky. You drive off in the
convertible with the cheerleader from high school, your high school. Not an
actual high school cheerleader but the one that you liked in high school,
giving the finger to all those who mocked you in the past.
And that's the movie that is played by those who are unlikely to apply and
it's all fiction and they know that it's fiction. They know it's fiction. They
know it's based on hope but occasionally they will buy anyway because it
feels good in the moment to satiate that desire. And the act of purchasing
makes them feel like they're doing something productive, right? So then
they buy and then they don't do anything and then they either say, "You're
horrible person," because they didn't open your course and do anything and
somehow you prevented them from doing it. Like you put a Jedi lock on it
or whatever and then they don't buy anymore of your stuff.
Now let's take the flip side to those who are likely to apply. Those who are
likely to apply, aside from all the other stuff which is they get results and
they buy more of your stuff and they're just awesome. They play an
entirely different movie. They play a movie that involves them utilizing
your stuff. So a lot of you are here, because I know a lot of you personally,
when you get a sales letter from Dan and Bill about a new thing and it talks
about like a new campaign like the S&D campaigns or whatever, you
envision yourself writing that out and you say, "Okay I'm going to run this
Thanksgiving campaign to this group of buyers and it's probably going to
produce this result," and you're already thinking about the outcome,
thinking about how you're going to apply it, right? You ever had that
experience? So what happens when you're having that experience is you're
pre-selling yourself before any real salesmanship on the part of the vendor
occurs. So those who are likely to apply are almost presold before you
have to deal with them at all, which is great because there's no reason in the
world to build a herd of people who aren't going to buy your stuff. So we
want to attract those who
are pre-sold.
So now we have, we're attracting people who immediately recognize, no

brainer recognize the transformational value of what you have to offer,
right? Who can easily afford it and who are likely to apply it? Do you think
they're likely to buy it at this stage without any miraculous salesman ability
on your part? Of course they are. But we are, in fact, not done.

There is one final piece of criterialism. It's a new one. I invented that work, NOTES
thank you, criterianess. And that is benefit. And benefit is married to
happily, but somewhat dysfunctional, to recognize. Now here's the deal – you
want to attract and target those who are most likely to benefit the most right
now from your stuff. We'll go back to the summer debacle. Started
out with plumbers, not so great right? They didn't recognize how cool we
were because at the end of the day we're going to maybe, we're not lying,
make them $1500 net profit after they deal with a bunch of grumpy
housewives, craw through human feces and pay their meth addict assistant.
So they're like, "Awe this is kind of stupid." So then we target
chiropractors. And you're like, "Yes this is pretty good. This will probably
work even if these guys give me two patients a month. It's still worth it. I'll
give it a shot. That works okay."
Now would benefit the most in the small business marketplace? Probably
someone who's average customer/patient value was huge, right? Like a
cosmetic surgeon or something and this is by no means me saying go after
cosmetic surgeons. I haven't tested that market so I don't know. But
someone like them who's average patient or customer value over the course
of a year could be 25 to 100,000 dollars. They're most likely to benefit the
most from what we have to offer right now. I haven't changed the offer
have I at all? I've changed the sites that I'm pointing the gun at, you
understand? So those are the four criteria of a good market that you want to
go after. It works to find someone who's irrationally passionate, great
number and easily reached but it works a lot better to find people who meet
this criteria. Your target may be smaller but your ROI per lead generated is
much greater.
I'm kind of burning through this. This is great. I'm going to have an early
lunch. You all with me so far? I know it's Sunday and we're like doing
work and stuff. I'm not telling as many jokes but I really want you to get
results and make money as a result of our experience together. So thus a
serious tone of the teaching.
So now that we have our target we got to attract them right. so the model of
lead attraction that I learned that worked and served me well, I have several
million reasons on my bank statement to be grateful to this lead generation
method is the one that's been around forever. And that is bribe them into
coming into your funnel by offering them cool free stuff. Alright? That's
worked great for me. It's worked probably great for a lot of you guys. The
old free report reveals something cool. Yep. Enter your email address here.
Free report reveals awesome stuff. Call this number for a 24-hour free
recorded greeting. I actually ran one of those old school GPDK ads and it
still works to this very day. They still call and leave their number for the
24-hour free recorded greeting, which is great. The problem, if we have to
find a problem with that methodology, and that's a big if, if we have to mess
with it and find something wrong with it is that the people coming into the
funnel are coming into your funnel when they respond to that, they're
coming in like this because they're like I'm pretty sure this is a bait switch.

I'm pretty sure this guy’s going to try to sell me something. And they're
NOTES
right. We are going to try to sell. I mean of course we're going to try to
sell them something. And it's not just us. That model of attracting leads
has been around forever. Back in 1904 when Dan was selling life
insurance or whatever, not that any of this is remotely true, by the way.
When you offer the free consultation, "I'd like you to come in for a free
consultation about your insurance needs." No one's going, "Okay. How
nice of them." I mean they'll come in. It'll work but they know there's
going to be a pitch and that's okay. It's fine. The model works. It's
awesome. But it leads to a lot of effort having to put into the process of
selling. Yeah. So I'll give you an example, from my own launch, the last
product that I launched was a product called List Control and that was
launched in the beginning of the year. I really can't remember. That's
embarrassing. It was launched earlier in the year and one of the month's that
had a vowel in the name, which followed January.
In the launch of that product I generated 80,000, 80 something thousand, it

was like 70 something or 80, it was a lot. Between 75 and 85,000 people. I
can't remember. On my list that came into my funnel during that launch. I
had the endorsement of every single major player in my marketplace, every
single one of them sending out my stuff saying, "Kern is awesome." I had a
video of a dude who was 12 or 13 talking about how much he had made
with my product. So I was able to be like, "Look man I can't guarantee
you're going to make money but Jesus come on, 12 or 13. I mean you can
surely do better than this guy, right?" I had Tony Robbins saying that I was
great. I had affiliates fighting each other to try to sell the most of my stuff
by offering huge, great generous bonuses to all those who bought through
their links.
Despite all of those advantages I sold 2,000 copies, which was my goal,
2,000 copies. So if you just divide the list, we'll say it's 75,000, that's what
like three percent of the list? I converted it three percent with all of that
work, with all of that product. Best guys. Oh this guy's amazing. Every
single person. Everywhere. You couldn't turn on the computer in our
space without seeing my videos. I'm surprised no one came and shot me.
Look I like you. I'm just tired of seeing you. You have to go.
So the reason why is because of the way people were brought in, right? That
old school way. That's why when you see launches, which are awesome
and they work great. I mean duh. But when you see launches, when you
watch the internet marketing space for launches specifically what happens?
What's the process? You opt-in and then you opt-in like this going, "This is
probably going to be a bunch of bull here. This guy's going to try to sell me
something. I guess I'll opt-in anyway because I'm a marketer but I hate to
being marketed too. It's just one of the mysteries of the world." Isn't that
the weirdest thing? The people who complain about marketing are
marketers. It's like, "Dude, what are you doing?" It's like a cook
complaining about food. What's wrong with you? But I digress.

So the guy comes in, arms crossed and then what do we as marketers in a
NOTES
launch have to do? We have to overcome that by giving tons of free
stuff away. Like every launch has four or five things of cool things
to reverse that opinion. It's all designed to uncross those arms
because when they come in like this you have to bribe and bribe and
conjure and prove that you're not a jerk. Even if they've known you
forever you have to reprove that you're not a jerk over and over and
over again by giving away tons of free stuff in this process. So the
question becomes, "Well what if we just attracted them differently?
What if we just had them come into the funnel on a totally different manner
with a different mindset but still using the same methodology?" Don't you
think that would be more effective? I did and I tried it and it worked. So I
personally build my lead generating campaigns now to a list of the three
magic words and you know their magic because they have little lines
coming off this. That's how you know it's magic or it's an ameba. It's one
of the two. Isn't that what an ameba looks like? I can't remember. I can't
believe I remember that. I'm pretty sure that's what an ameba looks like. It
is not an ameba? Oh I was going to say paramecium, duh. Thank you.
Like I didn't that. Paramecium tattooed on my…never mind.
So here's the deal, here's why you want to elicit that response instead of,
"Okay let me see what your free stuff is." Would you ever ask someone
for help if you did not trust them? No. We're on the side if of the road.
The car's broke down. The engine's smoking. You're all alone and then
the serial killer van pulls up. And the guy's like, "You want a ride?" And
you're like, "I'm cool. I don't need any help." Internal rules won't let us do
it. It's not even conscious decision. You just won't do it, right? Would you
ever ask someone for help if you did not believe they could help you? No.
It goes against our psychological orders. It's nothing you sit around and
think about, like when you're responding to an ad you're not like, "Do I trust
this person? Do I believe they can help me?" No you don't psychologically,
consciously think about it but these are the rules that govern our behavior.
So why not go with these rules?
So therefore, if that is true wouldn't it also be true and isn't it also true that
when someone asks us for help at least on some level, on some level
subconsciously or at the little pinnacle fine line between consciousness and
sub consciousness don't they trust us a little bit if they ask us for help? Yes
or no? Don't they on some level believe that we can help them? Alright, so
consider this – what are the two biggest reasons people don't buy our stuff?
I'll tell you. They either don't want it, 'A', duh or they don't believe us. So
assuming we're targeting people who want it, which I know that sounds
elementary but I make the error roughly every 90-days still because I've
only been doing this 11 years. I think 15 years I'll get over that one right?
So assuming we're talking to people who want it. If we can eliminate the
trust issue right at the point of entry don't you think we'll sell more stuff?
This process is leading in my business right now to a 20 to 33% conversion

rate on an $8,000 to $12,000 product. So it's working very, very good for
NOTES
me.
There's a formula, this is going great. I've got 21 minutes. I think that's a
perfect time. There's a formula that I use to elicit this response in my lead
gen. Would you like it?
Audience: Yes.
Frank: I'll sell it to you. Here's the formula. There's four steps to it.
Okay? Here's four steps to it, okay? Alright, step number one, you
shouldn't do drugs because they're bad. I haven't seen that show in forever.
I should've watched some time. Alright, let's see here. I have forgotten how
many steps there are. We're going to discover them together. There may or
may not be four steps. These results are not typical. Your results may vary.
None of the things I'm saying are true at all. At any second you could
explode. Do not do anything. Go home. Eat microwave pizza and sugar.
So step number one is you have to identify the BAP. So the BAP is
technical jargon. It stands for big problem. Every market has a big
problem. so when we were working with them chiropractors I took doing
me some of that market research by calling a chiropractor and saying,
"What's you all's big problem?" And they said the thing that kept them up at
night was acquiring new patients, which was lucky because that's what we
were in the business of solving. But sometimes you'll be wrong. Sometimes
the big problem could've very well been getting the patients to accept the
case or whatever. Who knows? But in that one it was in fact acquiring new
patients.
So every market's going to have a big problem and it's not like you can't
force this. You don't want to trick yourself into believing that their big
problem happens to match whatever you got. Make sure you're accurate in
your thinking and your identification what their big problem is. So first
identify the big problem.
Step two, is to shine a spotlight on the big problem. So when I cracked the
code on this thing I wrote a tear sheet ad, which I didn't bring and I wrote it
for chiropractors and the headline said something like, "7,242 chiropractic
clinics slated to shut their doors." No, "Slated to be killed in
2010 by bad economy." Right? So I'm shining a huge spotlight on that big
problem. Bring that right to the front of their mind.
Now already we're different because of everyone else is selling into our
crowd is free report reveals how to get new customers. I haven't talked
about new customers yet. I'm entering the conversation in their mind, which
is I'm scared I'm going to lose my practice because I ain't getting enough
patients.
Now you probably know these first two steps already from basic
copywriting but what you might not have done been explained to is you

have got to take two, proving the existence of the big problem by featuring
NOTES
third party data because nobody believes us anymore if they ever did. I
don't believe me half the time. That's me. Right? Probably why I don't
believe me. You got to prove it.
So in that ad the first thing I did, chiropractors at the dinner table. It gets
my tear sheet sent lovingly from Jay. You guys mail tear sheets? It's the
greatest thing. I love it. They're fun. Fake newspaper articles. Anyway
he's at the dinner table. You're 7,000 something chiropractic clinics slated
to be killed in 2010 by bad economy. The first paragraph says that
according to research done by independent firm, biz minor, comma, 40.02%
of new chiropractic clinics fail within their first year. Backed it up didn't I?
See the old method or the less sophisticated method, which still works okay,
would be to go, "You got a real big problem here. Here's how bad your
problem is without proving it." You've got to prove it and it can never, ever
because you said so. It has to be proven by third party data. It's easy to get
the third party data. You just type in insert whatever here and then statistics
and then you can find the data or you can go to YahooAnswers.com and ask
and people will tell you. I don't know why they do this, they just
do. They like to answer weird questions. You can go there and say,
"Give me scary statistics about XYZ," and they'll give them to you. But
you've got to prove it. You have to prove it.
So the fourth step is the twist the knife. What was that Dennis, Dennis
Leary had that comedy sketch. I'm a jerk. Well you kind of have to be a
jerk in this one but you're helping them at the end of the day. so they need
to wake up and they have a big problem and they're
serious and you're doing them a favor by smacking them around and saying,
"Hey come on." So you twist the knife.
So in the formula, to give you an example of how I did it in the ad, I started
out, let me tell you where I got the number. Does anyone know where I got
the number in that headline from?
So when you use data make it real. Never make this up. So my headline
said, "7,242 chiropractors slated to be murdered brutally by the economy in
2010." I got that number by calling my list broker and going, "How many
chiropractors you got?" And he said, "This many." I said, "Oh okay." And
I just multiplied that by the statistic given to get the number. Make sense?
So whenever you can be accurate, accurate, accurate. You've got to be.
Pretend you're like a lawyer making a case. Right? But actually be
accurate.
I start out, shine a spotlight on the big problem, prove it immediately.

According to the research company BizMinor.com 40.02% of new
chiropractic clinics close or die or whatever within their first year and I don't
remember the number specifically. I'm doing this by memory. The next
phase, I've got their attention don't I, like that? Not hypie attention but Jesus

Christ, which is what everyone's programmed to respond to anyway because
NOTES
normal people read the news and respond to that kind of scary stuff so you
might as well make it work in your favor.
So the next step is they're on the edge from complacency to action. I've got
to push them over the edge by freaking them out. So what I said in my ad
was, "It's likely to get worse." Why would I say such a thing? Because it is
likely to get worse. So then in the ad I decided how bad the economy was
and how bad it's projected to get. According to economic forecaster Harry
S. Dent, the American economic landscape is plummeting towards an all
new low. This could sound the death nail for unprepared chiropractic
clinics.
You could actually probably do this. I know a guy I've worked with who
writes for legitimate magazines and they play a little game where they'll
make the first word of every sentence spell dirty and see if they can get
away with it. So you could do that in your ad. You can make it say, "You
sir are screwed." Possibly. That would be hilarious. Someone please do
that and mail it and just for fun.
So the fifth step is to show the light. Actually, before I explain that I did
more knife twisting in my ad. So I cited how bad the economy was and then
I cited that traditional advertising methods were no longer working. I did
that because I was selling a new advertising method. This kinda fangled fad
everyone's talking about, right? And I knew that when I spoke to them I
was going to have to compete against the old stuff they were doing.
So now finally I've spotlighted the big problem. I've illustrated them the
severity of the big problem as a result of this independent third party data,
not just some jerk writing an ad. Right? Then I've scared them by telling
the truth, which is it is likely to significantly worse if they're unprepared.
Finally now that they're all freaked out now I offer the free report offering
the cool stuff. So I've just taken the old method and reframed it with some
new handy psychology. Yeah. And the way I did that in this ad was to say,
"But some chiropractors are having the best year ever. Free report reveals
exciting new ways some chiropractors are attracting more customers, or
more patients in this case, than they've ever had. If you would like one call
XYZ for a free 24-hour pre-recorded message," which of course we are so
nice we actually answered the phone in person. We didn't make them leave
their message. We took the call and sold them some product. Right? The
end.
So that is the formula for generating the proper lead. The person who says,
"I need help." They are no longer as skeptical as the old way. Where
they're like, "I know you're going to try to mess with me somehow you
jerk." They're like, "Please help me. You might still try to mess me but I'm
really posed so please help me. And then if you help me enough maybe I'll
buy some stuff." Make sense?

Audience: Yes sir.
NOTES
Frank: Alright super. So when you take the right market that meets the
four criteria that I gave you and then you attract them in the manner which
I've just explained to you and you're selling something of massive
transformational value for a lot of money you can out market what is
commonly known as the ever living dog feces out of your competition
because you're going to have, at least I've been having, and some of our
students have been having very high conversion rates. Right? Make sense.
So that is the new formula by which I've been running by business. It's
working fabulously.
Bill asked me to shave some time off. I have successfully shaved off a lot of
time. I have 11 and now 10 minutes and 59 seconds to stand here and
ramble at you all, that's kind of my new list getting stuff, which works great.
If you have any questions I'll take them for the next 10 minutes and 50
seconds.
Audience: Hello I have a very basic question because I'm very new in
information marketing.
Frank: You're lucky. You don't have to unlearn anything.
Audience: Where is the original list come from? You just buy a list of
chiropractors?
Frank: That's what I did. Yeah.
Frank: Yeah. Going into the mail is not something to do half heartedly.
So there's an entire universe. I just spent a lot of money to sit with Dan and
have him tell me how to do direct mail properly and I'll probably still screw
it up before I get it right. So it's important to really be very, very clear on
exactly who you want and to work with a good list broker. So you can
determine by lists selects how they're going to meet the criteria we
discussed.
So for example, let's talk about the ability, and this is, in my opinion, very
important, the ability to apply. Where'd you go? Oh there you are. Okay, I
can hardly see anyway. These contact lenses that I borrowed from my wife
are defective. The ability or the likelihood to apply, for example, can be
determined or better improved by list select. For example, investment and
time spent in business and investment made to get in business when you're
selling B-2-B increases the likelihood to apply.
So a chiropractor who's been in business for a long time has a lot more
vested in his business, more likely to apply. The chiropractor who has just
bought a new office space is more likely to apply because he wants to pay
for that office space. The chiropractor who is, I don't know why I'm harping
on chiropractors, it's not like it's saturated or anything but the chiropractor
who is actively marketing via display ads in the Yellow Pages more likely to

apply, more likely to buy based on those behavioral selects. So I cannot
NOTES
even begin to crack the direct mail code for you in eight minutes and 52
seconds. But that's essentially how you do it.
And of course, you can attract them on the inner webs via the old PPC and
all that kind of stuff or you could do giant ventures with people who are
already selling them stuff, which is probably the best place to begin building
your list in my opinion because you're getting buyers. And as mean old Dan
has said so many times quite accurately a buyer is a buyer is a buyer. So
you might as well take the going after them buyers. Okay? Alright? You
sir with the microphone.
Audience: Thank you. First of all this is all really great.
Frank: Thanks.
Audience: And you mentioned something about how it's important to get
people who will actually implement what you're teaching. Now were there
ways you could determine ahead of time who would do that or was that
through trial and error testing?
Frank: All that stuff I just said was about that.
Audience: How embarrassing.
Frank: The person who was already doing XYZ, right, so in my case, in
this example I was selling gets more patients. The person who is already
actively advertising to get more patients far more likely than the guy who
lives in Egypt who doesn't run Yellow Pages ads. Right? So you can go
after them.
If you're looking at, "What business should I go after?" Go after a business

where it's extremely difficult to get into business and where it costs a lot of
money to start that business because they're highly motivated and vested to
do it. So that's how you can make it more likely to attract people who are
likely to apply. You don't know until you try but you can narrow it down.
As Bill Meyers said in the direct mail boot camp seminar that he conducted
back in 1903 you want to shoot the enemy planes that are on the ground.
You know what I mean? You want to fire at them. So the targeting makes
all that more likely.
Audience: Great.
Audience: Hi Frank.
Frank: Hey man.
Audience: So my markets are smokers. So the message of transformation

value is there if they can stop smoking. Now the problem is, and you know
better than I, of course, that the marketing you cannot make money on

selling people to be healthier. They only will spend money once they are ill
NOTES
and they want to get cured. So what I don't think the big problem for a
smoker is that all the methods that they use that they fail and they know it
because they tried already several things and that's why they are so
skeptical. So how would you overcome that skepticism and how would you
then build up the value to the smoker to stop smoking?
Frank: Well you don’t really overcome the skepticism through the ad.
You scare them, make them ask for help through the ad. So if everyone is
saying, "You're going to die," or whatever and it's not working there's
probably and likely another hot button. So I smoked for, man, forever,
cigarettes. Forever. And so one kind's good, one kind's bad. So
and I quit because girls didn't like it. And I was like, "This is really
interfering with my ability to do something that's a lot more fun than
smoking." So that's why I quit and it was so hard to quit. I chewed so
much gum that I literally go scar tissue on tongue and cheeks. I was
constantly chewing. I quit smoking while I was making a record
incidentally, which is the worst time to quit because you're in the studio
forever. Is it my turn to play yet?
So I would hit them where it hurts even worse, which might be, and I don't
know this. I don't know if this is the proper angle but there's probably one
out there, which is your children don't respect you. People laugh behind
your back. You're that ugly person that nobody likes. Is it you they're
whispering about in the corner? I would go for that and then prove it and be
like, "According to the legitimate research firm here 90% of people secretly
want to murder smokers in their sleep," or something. There's got to be a
statistic out there like that because it's actually true. It's pretty gross. It
really is. No disrespect to anybody but that is nasty man. Come on.
So that's the angle. You've got to zag where they're not zigging or whatever
that thing is. See what I mean? Find the real driver because clearly you're
going to die is not the driver. It's not. They're quitting for other reasons and
it's likely to be social pressure. Okay?
Audience: Okay, thank you.
Frank: And I got one more and then the lovely and talented Bill Glazer's
going to come up. So it would be you.
Audience: Okay so in the last six months I've been in this market, same
with you guys, the local business. So two questions. One is what exactly is
the packaging you're selling for eight to 12,000? And then in my experience
a lot of the small businesses have been bombarded in the last year to two
years with this kind of information. So exactly how are you differentiating
yourself?
Frank: The sales process helps us be different. Yeah.

Audience: Are you cold calling or just mail?
NOTES
Frank: What I'm doing in my business, well that's a two prong question.
One of them was a great set up for me to make a pitch, which I can't because
I don't have enough time.
Audience: Come on.
Frank: But essentially.
Audience: Go ahead.
Frank: Kevin and I are teaching my list and his list and anyone who wants
to know how to create a high ticket offer, how to attract leads properly and
then how to close those leads in an intimate selling environment, not one
that requires nudity but typically one done over the telephone. And that's
how we're getting those results. If you are interested in that you can go to
1ManMillions.com. You spell that out, number 1ManMillions.com. You
pay $97. You request a strategy session from someone in our office. If you
do not like the strategy session and you think it was a big, horrible pitch we
will pay you $200 back. We're very confident that you'll get benefit from
this strategory session. What was the other question? That one was the
most important one, by the way.
Audience: That was the most important. What are you packaging eight to
12,000, what does that look like for this one business?
Frank: So we're testing it to small businesses now. I just wrote a lead

generation piece that bombed because I was bad on my list selection. So
what we're selling them we're going after specific businesses with high
tickets and we're teaching them how to attract the right type of person who
is likely to buy the high ticket thing and then we're teaching them how to
actually sell it and how to restructure their pricing. So think instead of a
dentist going, "Hey you know come in and come back every month for
3,000 years and we'll do this." Now the dentist says, "Oh come in for a teeth
whitening." And then he up sells them into a $12,000 package. And we
teach the psychology of all of that. And we're not necessarily going after
dentists. I'm just using that as an example. Alright?
Audience: Great. Thanks.
Frank: Sure. And that's it ladies and gentleman. So sorry. It is my

pleasure to present the lovely and talented, probably the best kisser in all of
Maryland, Dr. Bill Glazer, proctologist of the year. Thank you Bill.
Bill: No don't leave. Ryan don't leave for a second. That's great. Did you
ever think you would live to see the day, I never did, where Frank Kern
would be telling you to use direct mail? So it's good. You've come around
to the dark side of marketing.

Frank: As I told Dan when he was seeking my advice, as he always does, I
NOTES
said, if you believe that, I said, "You know Dan I got a feeling this direct
mail fad's going to be pretty big".
Bill: You were in my office about two years ago, right? The conversation
we had was direct mail is the keys to the kingdom.
Frank: Yeah, I think if you can make direct mail work you're done. It's
over because it is not as easy as just buying a list and going but it's close
once you get the right list and you do all the work that's required. It takes
work. It takes work and it takes money. There's no way to screw around
out of it but there's a way to accelerate the success of it for sure by making
well educated decisions on how to go forward. You guys have so legitimate
reeled in it.
Bill: Well let's give a big hand for…
Frank: Can I go?

NOTES
With Ryan Deiss
Bill: Hey listen. So you heard from Frank and you're now about to hear for
two sessions, back-to-back, one before lunch, one after lunch the guy who is
really systematized the entire list building strategy with system after system
after system after system after system. He's got them all figured out. Most
of them anyway. So with that said marketer extraordinaire in many, many
businesses. Really proud of this guy because first, he first joined my
Mastermind group. He was still in diapers. And so now he's gotten out of
that. So it's great to see him grow in such a huge information marketing
business and he's really done it with building the right list and learning how
to make that list responsive. Mr. Ryan Deiss.
Ryan: I got this really cool thing called PowerPoint, maybe you all have
heard of it. I don't even know what that is. That's kind of terrifying. We'll
just leave that there. And I'm like Frank I can't pull from the hip quite as
well. So I prepared some stuff for you guys. I got a lot of really neat
examples and stuff from my different businesses that you're going to be able
to see here but if you try to draw out all the pages you're going to be very
frustrated.
Write this down–DrivingTraffic.com/RyanHandouts,

DrivingTraffic.com/RyanHandouts. Here. You know what? I don't have
time to write it. If you can't spell Ryan or Handouts you don't deserve them.
DrivingTraffic.com/RyanHandouts.pdf. RyanHandouts.pdf. You'll get PDF
versions of everything you see here so don't freak out about seeing the exact
examples. They'll be in full color. I'm also going to give you guys some
cool websites and fun stuff like that. Take notes on the concepts. Don't
worry about the exact specific examples.
So I'm going to talk to you guys about list building, how I go about doing it
in my different businesses. I mentioned those of you who were in here a
couple days ago when I was up on the panel, we've got information
publishing businesses. You guys have probably seen me for my internet
marketing stuff. I'm happy to report I actually do make more money doing
this than teaching it and it's because we're in a number of businesses like
currency trading and fore. We've got a health and fitness division. I'll show
you some examples from that.
I mentioned we're in the preppers market, urban survival market, which is a

fantastic market especially in this day and age. We've got the relationships
market, published a lady by the name of G.D. Sage. A lot of different
markets. We also have a chemical and cleaners manufacturing facility. We
manufacture and sell niche chemicals and cleaners. Things like bed bug
killers and fun stuff like that.

And I just got back from China because we do some importing. So we do a
NOTES
lot of stuff and I'm not saying that to brag, kind of saying that to brag, I'm
mostly saying we haven't just tested it in one market, we tested across a
number of markets, numbers and verticals. So I'm giving you control. This
doesn't preclude you from doing your own testing. You still need to try this
stuff out, see for yourself that it works. Do all your own happy, fun testing
but what I'm giving you guys is a starting point. I want to really give you a
good shortcut.
So let's dive in. There's only three ways to win when it comes to building a
bigger list and making more money from, I'm going to be talking
specifically about e-mail marketing. So I know Dan spoke this morning
about a lot of the conceptual stuff, building the iron cage around, around
your herd. So did Frank. I'm talking specifically about how to get more
subscribers, how to get more of your emails opened and how to get more
click thrus. That's it. That's the big secret to making more money with list
building from your list. If you have a bigger list, if you get more people to
open your emails and if you get more people to click on the links in your
emails that's it you're done. And if you get good at all three of these things
obviously now the increase is geometric.
So that's what we're going to be talking about during this first session. I'm
going to try to blitz through all the little tricks that we do to get more
subscribers, the systems that we do, to get more subscribers, to get your
emails open and get more click thrus and then after lunch I'm going to show
you guys a bunch of the sneaky little tricks that we do to increase some
conversions. So you're definitely want to come back for that.
So part one getting more subscribers. The raw materials when it comes to
building an online list, you want to generate a lot of email sub subscribers
you need a traffic source. Right? You've got to have traffic. That's got to
come from somewhere. That can come from affiliates, that can come from
pay-per-click, that can from media buys. Can come from a number of
different sources. We're going to talk about how the source that it comes
from can change the way that you go about building your page. It can
change your offer but you've got to have a traffic source.
Now unfortunately I don't have, with the time I got I can't talk in depth
about traffic generation. That's a whole other topic. I did an entire three
day event just on traffic generation. It's a big topic. What I am going to
discuss in depth though are two and three. I'm going to talk about landing
pages, how to build landing pages that convert and the offer that you make
on those landing pages because really I don't care what you're trying to do. I
don't care if you're trying to sell something, I don't care if you're trying to
build a list, at the end of the day it comes down to these three things. You
need traffic. You need a landing page someplace where people can take
action. And you need to make them an offer. That's it. If you're selling
something you need traffic, landing page and offer.

In the offline world it's the list or the media where you're buying your
NOTES
advertising. It's the sales letter and it's the order form. This is just the
online equivalent of that.
Let's talk about landing pages that work and some of the elements. There
are a number of different types of landing pages that we're going to be
talking about – short form, long form, Google friendly. That's a biggie.
How many of you guys in here advertise on Google? Okay. How many of
you guys have heard about the Google slap? How many of you guys got
slapped? Big deal. It's a really, really big deal. Google for years was a
fantastic source of ultra targeted, inexpensive traffic and over the last really
year and a half they've just been kind of systematically weeding out the
types of offers and the types of websites that they don't like.
It doesn't mean that Google is dead. I've gone on record as saying Google
sucks on multiple occasions. I'm still not totally happy with them, but I will
be the first to admit that those guys still have the cookie and I want the
cookie and it's their sandbox. So we have to play buy their rules. We're
going to talk about how you go about playing by their rules.
Reverse squeeze pages, that's another type of squeeze page. Info squeeze
pages. And again don't worry about writing all this stuff down guys. You're
going to be able to get the handouts. Info squeeze, and those are it. So let's
talk about short forms squeeze pages because if you guys are trying to build
a list I'm going to show you guys the single highest converting opt-in page
that I've ever used. Do you all want to see that? Okay, this isn't it. This
isn't mine. That was a good lead in though.
So you can see here this is an example of an ultra short form squeeze page
and this one's blind. You see it doesn't even make an offer. It just has a big,
outrageous promise – how did this investor pocket a billion dollars in one
day? It's ridiculously simple once you learn the secret. And it just has a
place to enter your email address and a button, that's it. That's all there is on
this particular form. These work amazingly, amazingly well. This is my
version of it from the currency trading market. You can see this one
however does make an offer. This is my highest converting squeeze page
ever. This is it. And what was funny is I started off with a headline and all
it has is just a headline, a call to action and a place to enter their email
address. That's all that's up here. And it started out as a fairly long form
offer. And what I found is when I removed some of the bullet points
conversions went up. Removed a couple of the other bullet points
conversions went up. Removed some of the other copy conversions went
up.
This means I either really suck as a copywriter or you have to match the
offer that you're making with the kind of high how is the barred entry. If
you're just asking for an email address, in some cases it doesn't make sense
to have a really long drawn out process. Some cases it does. It all depends
again on traffic source but right now still what's worked the best four years
ago when I first started doing this and what's working the best today from
cold traffic, from cold traffic is this particular offer. Now you could

absolutely never run this opt-in page in Google. They would absolutely slap
NOTES
it.
Also some affiliates won't let you run it because there's no real direct
promise of content. This is a pretty aggressive opt-in form but if you want
to get a lot of leads and the traffic's coming from banner advertising and
stuff like that this is a really good one to use.
Long form. This is actually the highest converting squeeze page that we're
doing today. So this is what's working best today from a general, kind of a
general traffic standpoint. So from general traffic this one plays really well
to affiliates because it's got more stuff on it. It can work for a time in
Google because it's got some pretty pictures and it just, in general, looks
nice. So some of the important elements, number one you've got to have an
attention getting headline. Basic, basic copywriting. Having a graphic of
the lead magnet. We're going to talk more about lead magnets and which
lead magnets convert the best but having a picture of what you're giving
people is important.
We've shown time and time again but only, this is a biggie, because I've
gone to some landing pages and the pictures of the report that they're giving
away just look bo-bo and funky. In that case it's better to have nothing than
have something that looks cheesy and unprofessional. So this is important.
On the internet people buy pictures. People buy pictures. One of the oldest
rules in e-commerce and people selling products online will spend an
absolute fortune to have ultra professional photographs taken of their
products because they understand they buy the pictures. They can't interact
with them. They can't hold it. Because this is in a traditional retail
environment where somebody picks it up or a bookstore where they grab
something, they start flipping through. Be like, "Yeah that's interesting."
They do judge books by their covers. That's all they got. So have a really
nice cover.
The horizontal opt-in bar. The horizontal opt-in bar that you see below
there but still above the fold, Bill I got to give credit to Bill Glazer on this
one. I never would've thought that having a little call-to-action, see the
arrow that says, "Get this report free," and then that points to the field and
then to the right of the field is the button? Typically we've always done this
in a vertical format. This horizontal though out pulled it. So the horizontal
opt-in bar above the fold is what's converting the best right now.
Compelling short form copy. So you still don't need to go on for days and
days and days. Oh here's a biggie, the Java script warning pop-up. How
many of you guys have seen this? You see the screen shot over here where
it looks like a video you can play and it's got the little play button and you
click the play button and it pops up one of these. Whoa there Trigger you
can't watch this right now. You got until you opt-in. Who in here's seen
that? Alright. My bad. I sort of popularize that a year and a half ago and
Frank did it and Jeff Walker did it and a lot of people started doing it on

their launches and now they're everywhere. Now every time…it's bugging
NOTES
the crap out of me and I got nobody else to be mad at but myself.
But the reason that it works is people go, they think they can watch the
video and it's another call-to-action. So it's interactive call-to-action. If you
want to see this page I believe it's at forexTradingCheatSheets.com or
forexTradingCheatSheet.com. I think it's forexTradingCheatSheets.com.
Feel free, go to this web page, have your web designer do a view source and
you can just steal the Java script. I don't own it. It's not mine. You all can
have it.
But all that it does is it tells the web page when they click on this image this
warning pop up at the top and it basically says, "Whoa there. You can't
watch this video until you opt-in." So it's an interactive warning pop.
Another biggie on landing pages, if you've got images and I learned this
from Dan Kennedy, if you've got images on a page the caption next to the
headline is the second most read part of the page. The second most read.
So if you've got images and you don't have captions you're missing a huge
area of readership and if you've got captions and you're not using them
particularly well you're wasting some very, very valuable real estate. So
have captions, compelling captions under your different lead magnets.
The other thing I like to have people are able to opt-in at the top but in case
they scroll I don't want them to have to scroll back up to take action. So
that's why we have another opt-in form down at the bottom. So this is a
template that you guys can use. It's not magical. Don't feel like, "Oh Ryan's
thing over here, his little headline was four words long. I need to make
mine four words." The structural elements, the key elements that I have
here are the ones that you want to focus on. Those are the ones you want to
focus on.
The big thing that makes this work though, and kind of the psychology that
went into this is eye path. When you see this here's what happens to your
eye. It starts at the upper left hand corner. You read forex Trading Cheat
Sheets. Download your complimentary, by the way, we tested
complimentary versus free, complimentary out pulled free. Again it's not a
broad across the room. I'm not saying frees dead or anything stupid like
that, but when you're dealing with a higher market matcheration, people are
used to seeing free so much to the point that it doesn't even resonate with
them. Complimentary is another way to say it but it's a little bit of a pattern
interrupt. I suppose.
So here's what happens to the eye path. You read the headline. Download
your complimentary forex Trading Cheat Sheets. The eye then travels left
to right because that's how we read over here in the West at least and it sells
right down following the pictures right down to the bottom. You'll see how
that works. So if they see free, download your free, your complimentary
forex Trading Cheat Sheets and now they see it for your low hanging fruit
they have enough information at this point to go ahead and opt-in at that top

horizontal opt-in bar. If they don't and they need more information the eye
NOTES
takes them down to the pretty pictures where they are then sold by the
captions and they end up at the secondary point, the secondary action point.
Does that make sense?
Are you guys tired? Are you bored? Is this good? Alright. Listen I have a
very, very low self-esteem, really low self-esteem and so I need constant
feedback. And by the way, thank you that helps me so much, and just to
clarify a point that I made when I was up here on the panel the male model
thing was a total joke. I was completely kidding. People came up to me,
"Really? You do male modeling?" Yeah because there's just huge
marketing for short, kind of pudgy male models. No. Totally and
completely kidding. But thank you so much for your votes of confidence on
that.
Okay, so in this case, and I'm afraid that if Dan's in here he's going to throw
something at me but in this case the copy is intentionally irrelevant.
Alright? The copy is…look at how boring it is over there. It's on the left
hand side. The eye goes left to right. The copy is there only for that
segment of the market that just has to have more information. There is a
certain segment. You can look at this on any adoption rate whether it be the
adoption rate of the internet or VCRs back in the day. You've got your low
hanging fruit. You got your bigger group in the middle that just need a little
bit more and then you got your people like Dan who still don't have cell
phones and use email, right? People like that they're going to need to read
the copy. So it's there. But those types of people will find it.
For everybody else I want to lower the barrier to entry as much as possible.
So keep that in mind. This is a video version of the same form. It's still
considered long form because they got to watch the video. So it's a short
video telling them about this stuff. My team was kind of enough to stop that
video at a point where I looked just as stupid as possible. I just appreciate
the heck out of them for that. Yeah.
Alright let's talk about Google friendly. So where are my Google peoples?
Where are my peoples at? Okay. Nice four of you. Good to see you guys.
The rest of you Google's kind of a big deal. You might want to give that
shot. They got some traffic. Make a little bit of money. I'm just saying.
Softball that one out there.
Alright, so if you want to generate leads off of Google, a lot of people have
heard, "Oh you can't do squeeze pages on Google. You can't drive people
straight to an opt-in form on Google". It's not true. It's not true. You just
have to do it the right way. We now have, through the agency that we work
with who runs a lot of our Google campaigns we're able to talk, they're able
to talk straight with the people at Google and we're actually able to get a lot
of our pages preapproved ahead of time before we put them up there. So
we're like, "Hey guys instead of us putting up our page and you slapping us
and us getting mad at you and us just trying to blindly fix it tell us before we

even go what we need to do". And if you spend enough money and you
NOTES
work with a good agency they can get that service done for you.
But what we hear time and time again from Google is that they hate
hypiness. The owners of Google, Larry and Sergey, specifically said that
they want to rid of the internet of infomercial type marketing. Yowsers.
And what you want to say is, "Well screw you. That works. There's
nothing wrong with it. It's been around forever". But for these guys they
still got a huge chunk of the pie guys. We got to play by their rules if you
want to go there. So when we advertise in Google it's a totally separate
domain name, separate web pages and in some cases separate offers because
you've got to tone it down. If you've got anything business opportunity
related forget about it. It's not going to happen. Google's not going to let
you in. I don't care if you follow all of these landing pages I'm talking
about. If you got a real estate offer it's tough. You can't talk anything about
making money. It's just learn about real estate. It's got to be the most tepid.
You got to throw out everything you thought you knew about good
copywriting for it to work in Google. And by that I mean real estate
investing. Not if you're selling stuff to real estate agents but even then you
can't say, "Hey, here's how to make a million dollars as a real estate agent".
I had a Google page slapped and an account banned for a hot dog cart offer.
We were showing people how they could make money running a hot dog
cart. It's a freaking hot dog cart guys and they were like, "No, no, no
business opportunity. You're a scam". I was like, "It's a hot dog cart.
Everybody loves hot dogs. Come on. You call yourselves an American
company and you're going to crap on the hot dog guy? You can't do that".
So they don't care. If you're talking about money making you're going to
have to tweak it a little bit.
For the page itself this is a landing page right now that we're doing that's
working. This is built on a Word Press platform. It's built on a Word Press
platform and this violates pretty much every single rule that you ever
thought you knew about generating leads online.
Number one, Google wants to see a logo. Logos matter. Logos are a big
trust factor. And how many of you guys have heard, "Awe you don't want
to have logos. You just want to have a blind opt-in form". Anybody heard
that? Guess I'm the only one. Thanks mom. If you've heard that in the past
that was true. We tested having logos or having headers versus not having
them and it converted today with the trust factor being what it is being on
the internet. Everybody being a little bit scared and worried. We're actually
getting increased conversions by having logos, professional logos. Again if
it looks funky it's going to suppress response. Not like there's anything
magical about a logo. If you just type something out in Times New Roman
and cut it out and paste it up and it doesn't match the background and looks
all funky, you're going to look all funky and they're not going to trust you.
So professional logos matter, not just from a conversion standpoint in some

cases but definitely to Google. They also want to see navigation. This was

the biggest kick in the you know what of all because we've all been told that
NOTES
if you have a web page that has navigation on it it's going to suppress
response. Haven't we? We've been told that. We actually did a test during
our last forex launch. And we drove, we split tested the affiliate traffic.
Drove half of it to a blog that had navigation and half of it to a standard
squeeze page much like the one I showed you before.
The opt-in rate was I think 48% to the one with the blog and 49% to the one
not on the blog. It didn't seem to matter all that much. And we're finding
that more and more and more. Navigation is not hurting conversion rates.
Still don't necessarily recommend it on your non-Google traffic but on your
Google traffic it's not the death that we once thought it was.
This is a biggie – a non hypie offer. The original lead magnet for this
particular offer was basically how to survive the coming apocalypse and
there's a mushroom cloud in the background and all this stuff. And they
were like, "No" Can't use fear based advertising in Google anymore. They
don't want to see it. They got no interest in fear based advertising. They
want happy, positive, fun loving crap that doesn't work. But that again,
that's their reality.
So we dulled it down. It hurt conversion rates but here's the good thing that
you guys need to understand about Google, because I don't want to be all
glum and make you think, "Oh man none of this stuff works". A good friend
of mine he made one of the best analogies that I've ever heard in my entire
life and I'm going to take all the credit for it right now. But what he said
was, "Google what it's been over the past few years it's been a bunch of
crack dealers". We're in the hood and it's everybody slinging crack rock,
okay? And so if you've got a legitimate offer, if you don't want to be ultra
hypie, if you're selling snow cones, for example, you're screwed. You don't
have a chance. You can't sell snow cones next to a guy selling crack.
Everybody wants crack right? Especially when they're giving the first one
away for free.
Well what Google has effectively done is they have rid their space of crack
dealers. So now if you want to sell snow cones that's cool. You can do it
because you're not having to sell against crack dealers. So we've seen a lot
of our prices in a lot of markets go down on a cost-per-click standpoint
because we don't have the same number of competitors and in general we
just don't have to hype stuff up as much. It's really nice.
Google wants to see additional articles and content. This also sucks. This
does suppress response but you've got to have it. You got to have it. If you
notice though it is all below the fold. We got the offer up top. It's below the
fold. They do want to see relevant images but not scary images. One of the
images that a guy in our office had it literally had a little girl sitting in a
wheat field like kind of rocking her baby doll and in the back there's a
nuclear silo that's about to explode. We're like, you know what? That
might be a little much. And Google agreed. They asked us to replace that
image. We also though, and you can see it down there at the bottom, we do

have a below the fold opt-in. If people scroll to the bottom give an
NOTES
opportunity to take action. We don't have quite the same eye path. Okay. I
wish we could get quite the same eye path. There's some interruption with
the text but that's what they want to see.
And here's a biggie. Here's a big, big biggie. One of the number one
reasons that people get their account slapped and they don't know it because
Google won't tell you because they're jerk faces is if you don't have a
privacy policy and a terms of service clearly visible on your landing page
they will slap you. How many of you guys knew that? Yeah, it's a big deal.
We couldn't figure out for the longest time what we were doing wrong. For
the longest time what we were doing wrong and finally we just forgot to put
the terms of service and a privacy policy statement on there. You have to
have it. It is in their terms of service that you have that. It is a violation of
terms of service to be driving traffic to a Google landing page that doesn't
have terms of service and privacy policy if you're gathering information. So
those are kind of some basic things to keep in mind for the Google friendly.
Let's talk about reverse squeeze pages real quick. We're not going to talk
about this for very long because frankly they don't work all that well. This
is a big trend in the launch world. And the whole idea is, and it's a good
concept. Don't get me wrong it's a really, really, really good concept. Give
value first. Give value first and then tell people, "Hey you can opt in if you
want to see more videos like this for the next one". So we tested this. I did
this 20 or 30 minute video that affiliates could just send traffic. We could
just send traffic to this 20 or 30 minute video and at the end of it hey if you
want to get the next video go ahead and opt-in. The opt-in rates were
abysmal. Why do you think that is? Because they hadn't watched this one
all the way. It's a consumption issue.
When they have to consume your content to then take action there's a
problem. In some cases a lot of your affiliates will not send straight to a
traditional landing page like the two I just showed you before. They're
going to want to send people to content. They're going to want to send
people to content. And they're going to ask that you build them a reverse
squeeze page because again the content's given on the front end then the
actions taken then they can get more content.
What we would rather do, what we tell affiliates who are like, "Hey we don't
want to send traffic straight to that". We'll tell them that, "Don't worry
about it. I'll just make you a short video, a five, 10-minute video, embed it
on your blog and go ahead and send traffic to your blog and you have the
call-to-action to send people to our opt-in page for more info". And that's
worked out a lot better.
We changed the offer that you saw before to this right here where it was just
a short, little one minute video of me basically reading essentially what the
words that are on this page. And how many of you guys have seen this type
of squeeze page before? This was version 1.0. This was the very first one.
Little video in the upper right hand corner. And written on this ordinary

cocktail napkin, tell the story and ask them to opt-in. Got double the
NOTES
conversion rates of the previous one by holding back the information and
just having it be look if you want it go ahead do it.
So I don't talk about reverse squeeze pages for very long. We don't really
like to use them all that much.
Let's talk about info squeeze pages, info squeeze pages. So here's one of our
websites in the health niche. You can check it out yourself. It's at
FreeMetabolismCalculator.com and I think Metabolism Calculator. We're
doing a bunch of testing so I don't know which ones are looking quite like it,
quite like this one right now.
Real quick poll, what's missing from this opt-in page? Yeah the email
address field. There's no email address field on this page. It is calculating
your metabolism for free, give us your information. Because there is no
personal information requested the number of people who feel this out is
like 80 something percent. It's through the roof. It depends on traffic
source but it's huge.
Now depending on the traffic source, and we got a bunch different tests, after
they fill this out they'll go to one of two places. Some people will then go to
a video sales page where it's got the results on the left hand side and they're
saying, "Hey thanks so much". And we'll direct sell them right then and
there. We don't even do lead generation because some sources of traffic are
so good we don't have to. For other ones we got a middle step where we
send them to a thing that says, "If you want us to email enter here. Enter
your information here so we can email you your results". After they submit
then they go and see the video sales letter. So we two step the process. The
point is once you have filled out a form, once you filled out a calculator how
much more likely are you to then give somebody your name and email
address so you can be sent that information? You already committed. It
goes into commitment and consistency. And they just flat out want the
information. They just want to know what's that like.
So these information forms they require a little bit of creativity. You got to
think about what would be a cool calculator that I could come up with? But
they work really, really well. Here's where I got the idea. This is an old, I
don't even know if this page or this site's still active but this is what the
South Beach Diet did and you can see that they actually, get a free diet
profile. So they had you fill it all out and their last field is the email address
field. So they go ahead and ask for it there. We tested both of them, we
wound up collecting more emails and making more sales by dropping that
email field from the first page. That's why you see our version. If I were
you I'd test them both. We could've had anomaly. I'd test them both.
But this is huge in fitness, huge in health. I know a lady who sells a product
basically on essentially how to prepare for your impending death, which is a
joyous topic. But it's basically how to make sure you're prepared from the
wills and standpoint. She has you enter in a bunch of information just to see

kind of how much taxes your heirs going to have to pay and that sent her
NOTES
sales through the roof when she did that.
Some other examples that are info squeeze pages that aren't so much, they're
not necessarily squeezing a name and email address but they're what we call
self-categorizing. So how many of you guys have two very distinct groups.
If you're in health and fitness you've got men and you've got women and
you're going to sell to them differently. Anybody else do that? Alright so
we've seen increased conversions by sending people to a page where they
can click a button. And it's basically choose your venture story. They click
a button now they see something that's tailored more to them but because
they clicked a button yeah it's a step but it's just a button. It doesn't
substantially reduce, it doesn't substantially increase the number of people
who are leaving. But the increased conversions give us a nice little bump.
Here's one truth about abs, one of the most profitable fitness offers on the
internet right now and that's exactly what they do. When you hit the page
what are you a man or a woman? And they send you into two different
paths. Good, good strategy. Not so much an email collection but because
it's an information calculator, went ahead and threw that in as well. Okay so
we talked about landing pages.
Now let's talk about lead magnets. So when I use the phrase 'lead magnet'
that is the offer that you give somebody in exchange for the lead. Alright
self-esteem time. You guys still with me?
Audience: Yeah.
Ryan: To have Frank come up first and be like, "Hey," that's real loosey
goosey and then me I'm come over and I'm like it's probably not fair. But
there you go. Frank and I are not a lot alike if you can't tell. But I love the
guy.
Types of lead magnets, blind or none. I showed you an example of that

before and I'll show that one to you. You offer them nothing. You just say,
"Hey opt-in to get something". Reports. Reports, you can send people to an
online report or you can send people to a PDF, audio, streaming MP3 or a
CD, video.
Flow charts and mind maps – these are huge. I'll show you an example of a
really cool way that we're using these right now. Well I'll show you one
example and then in the sneaky tricks I'll show you a way that we plused it
after lunch. So how we're using kind of the flow chart mind map thing to
generate a lot of leads. Or you can also do premiums, self-liquidating
offers. Show some examples there or you can do what we call sandwich
content, which is probably my favorite. So let's talk about these. This I
already showed you. This is basically a blind offer. There is no lead
magnet promised. So it is just how did this investor pocket a billion dollars?
Is that a billion or a million? It's those zeros. Math is hard. How did this
one investor pocket a billion dollars in one day? It's ridiculously simple

once you learn the secret. It's ridiculously simple to make a billion dollars
NOTES
in a day. Pretty good promise but what are you getting when you opt-in?
What are you getting? I don't know. I have no freaking clue.
Well as it turns out you're getting a sales letter. Lucky you. No in this
example the no content was promised and none was delivered. It's just a
sales letter following the opt-in. A sales letter following the opt-in. You
guys laugh. This is one of the most effective strategies out there. A lot in
some markets, they get a little ticked off by it. You got to question. I'm a
big believer in what's the first transaction that you have with somebody? So
if your initial transaction is kind of not so hot, if people don't have the best
feeling about it it's probably going to come back to bite you later on. So I
really want, when somebody goes through that thing for that first transaction
for them to be thinking, "This was great. This person really over delivered".
And when somebody opts in and you send them to a sales page not so great
in terms of a first transaction. Alright? But if you test it, kind of depending
on your, you can kind of make a moral or an ethical call there. But if you
test it a lot of times this will out pull other things because lead magnets can
sometimes derail the buying process. And we'll talk about that a little bit
more. So this is an example people opt-in and they get sent to a sales letter.
As long as your sales letter does have some content, by the way, which most
of them do I don't really have a big problem with this. It's like anything
else, you can use it for the forces of good or you can use it for the forces of
evil.
Audience: Does it say Free Report in the opt-in box?
Ryan: Let me go back and check. Sign up for your free report now. Yeah,
so they're promising a free report of sorts. There's your free report. Have
fun reading that sales letter. But how often, look I bought the A to Z info
publishing. I mean this is nothing new. This is what's been done in the
offline world forever. You publish an ad. You say send in a thing to
request your free report and what do you send them out? A sales letter. It's
just the online version of that. So again I don't have any moral or ethical
issues with it. Certainly as long as your sales letter delivers some content,
which typically the best sales messages do. But you kind of got to play
around with that.
The way that Motley Fool does it is actually a lot better when people opt-in.
You can go to Fool.com and opt-in to some of their stuff if you want to see
their process. They have people opt-in and then they actually send them to
a report, which is essentially an article on different pages. And then the
fourth page begins the sales process. It's a version of the sandwich page but
I'm going to show you guys a version that's a lot better, a lot more profitable
in just a second.
So here's the name squeeze page. I showed you guys this but we actually do
promise a lead magnet. We actually do send them a report. So it's into your

email address in the form below and I'll send you free instant access to forex
NOTES
gap Trading, the forgotten trading system that is right 88.1% of the time.
Now in this case what we did is we sent them the report via email. So we
did actually fulfill on the promise but as soon as they opted in they went to a
page that said, "Check your email in box in a couple of minutes. Download,
the link for the report's going to be there. While you wait read this special
report or watch a special video". And that was when we showed them the
sales message. Again that works well. You guys can attest to that. In a
second, I'm going to show you a version that works even better.
Reports versus videos. Right now in most of the markets that we're in,
again this is more a function of market maturation than it is…this is a broad,
broad rule but in most of the markets that we're in offering a PDF report is
getting a higher opt-in rate than offering a video. Video has been devalued.
It's been overdone. There's You Tube. People are getting video sent to
them all the time. It's not the novelty that it once was. In some markets it
still is. So you got to test this stuff. What we do is we give them both. In
the example I showed you before people got a report and they got a video.
So we can all hit the multiple modalities.
But I talked before offering videos in this case didn't work. This worked
better but the thing that worked the best was offering a report. The thing
that worked the best was offering a downloadable PDF report. What
worked even better than that hand drawn reports, hand drawn reports and I
got this idea from Frank Kern. How many of you guys saw his, anybody on
his mass control launch when he did the finger report and he just drew a
picture of a middle finger? Because he's Frank and that's what he does.
But that was his highest. Generated way more leads than anything else that
he did because it's got that personal interaction. If we all admire Bill and
Dan but if they typed something out and send it to us that's one thing. If you
get their handwritten, it's a much higher perceived value. Why do people
collect autographs? How many of you guys were here when Cal Ripken
was here and you were getting him to autograph stuff? Why did you do
that? That's bizarre. You can just go online and print out a picture that's got
his name on it. You know what his name is anyway. You don't need to be
reminded by some squiggly lines. It's because he wrote it with his own
hand. And that still has a lot of meaning for us in our culture.
So when you go to the trouble of doing that or having somebody else going
through the trouble of doing that for you, if you have zero artistic ability like
myself that's going to result in some of the highest opt-in rates that you can
get. Either way having a flow chart or a mind map, something that
simplifies whatever it is that you're teaching them make people go gaga.
Why? Because we are lazy. We are so lazy. I don't want to read a 50 page
report. I want a single sheet that's going like oh go to this point, this point,
this point. It's going to be very systematic. It's going to tell me exactly how
I need to do it so I don't have to exercise any effort or work whatsoever.
That's what people want.

And flow charts and mind maps and checklists, cheat sheets. You saw the
NOTES
offer that we had before. It was the forex Trading Cheat Sheets. All those
things work really, really, really well. People totally dig that stuff and we
tested across a number of different markets.
Here's a biggie that you may not have thought of and I talked about it a little
bit when I was up on the panel. But offering what we call Self Liquidating
Offers in exchange for leads. So which would you rather have, a lead that
gave you some money or an opt-in? The lead that gave you some money,
right? I've heard it stated, I don't know, it's one of those things you can keep
quoting statistics and as long as they're old enough and you don't know the
original source they must be true. But I've heard it said enough times from
enough good sources that I believe it, somebody that gives you any money
at all, even if it's just a buck is 10 to 20 times more valuable than somebody
who just opts-in.
That's the principle behind this self-liquidating offer. And this is something
that we saw some years ago and it's this guy that sells, he sells guitar strings
for classical guitars. So not the metal ones. I don't play the guitar. What
are the guitar strings that are not metal called? Nylon. Thank you. He sells
nylon guitar strings and he basically sells them at cost. Okay, he basically
sells them at cost and my buddy who's a big classical guitarist he's like,
"Man I love this guy. He's such an idiot. There's no way he's making
money on these guitar strings. I know they cost a fortune." Well what the
guy's doing is he's direct importing guitar strings and he's literally selling
them at the same cost that he's buying from the factory.
Now why would this guy do this? Big dumb idiot, right? Why would he do
this? Well my friend bought some guitar strings from him. A week later he
got an email sent to him to, "Hey I got some guitars for sale, $1200." What
do you think he did? Wrong he bought two. But what is this Ebay idiot
doing who's out there selling stuff and not making any money? He's
generating the most valuable list of all, a buyer's list. A buyer's list and he's
doing it for free. It's not costing him anything.
Ryan: Yeah, he's creating a value perception. So it's great. And he doesn't
just have to be on Ebay. It just doesn't have to be on Ebay at all.
Sometimes we'll go out to our list and we'll sell something very, very low
ticket just to reactivate people, just to get them to take out their dang credit
cards. It's a magical thing that happens. The momentum that's generated
when somebody takes out their credit card they're so much more likely to
keep it out then if it always stays in their wallet. So think self-liquidating
offers. Think what can I offer that's a physical item? Even if I don't make
any money at all that I can give away and let people keep.
You want to go really nuts? If you got on an affiliate program let your
affiliates do something like this and keep all the money. They get to sell a
physical product and keep all the money. You're building a buyer's list.

These are one of the most profitable, and almost nobody does it. Almost
NOTES
nobody in your market does this. You can create much more valuable offers
than anybody else in your market.
Okay so the big lead magnet paradox. Not having a lead magnet can hurt
your opt-in rates. It can also affect that initial first transaction that you have
with your people, right? So the way to get around this whole lead magnet
issue is to do what I talked about in the beginning, not have one. People
opt-in, thanks, here's your sales letter. But if you don't want to do that,
right, if you want to have a really good first transaction, if you want to
deliver tremendous value you need to have a lead magnet. But having a
lead magnet it can derail the sales process. Somebody opts in, they get your
free report, they go to read it, they think, "Oh this is great." They don't
finish it. They put it down. They tell themselves I'm going to get to that
later. When is later? Never. Later equals never. Put that in your brain.
Anybody who's ever been in retail or car sales has probably heard of the
phrase “be backs”. “Be backs”. How many be backs did you get today? I
had nine people come in. They're really interested. They're going to be
back tomorrow. No. “Be backs”, they're air, vapor, nothing. They're worth
this. When you offer something that is of really good value and people kind
of get into it but they don't finish it. They're a “be back”. So here are some
ways that you can mitigate that.
Number one, don't stretch out the delivery process of your content. How
many of you guys currently have, when people opt-in, a seven day mini
course on blah, blah, blah? Okay. Stop doing that. Okay? It's okay to have
a seven day course if they opt-in for day one and you fulfill day one and
then you let them go ahead and go on to day two.
What I used to do was people would opt-in and we'd send them day one and
they'd e-mail in to customer support, which was me at the time but I was
replying as like Sally or something because I didn't want people to knowing
I was doing my customer sport. I replied to and they'd be like, "Can I get
day two? I'm really excited about this?" No, no, no, you have to wait. I'm
building anticipation. Boy they're going to be so stoked to buy by the time.
No. Day two they were kind of stoked. Day three getting a little
disinterested. Day four, who is this person? Day five you're a spammer.
Okay?
So you can have a multi-part e-class but let them cheat. Okay? If they want
to go through all seven days in one day let them do it. Nothing wrong with
that. At the end of one, say to watch, next two click here. Boom there's
one. Let them walk through all of them. If they're hot, nobody will be more
excited about what it is that you have to offer, they'll never be more excited
about what it is that you have to offer than they were that moment when
they first opted in. That was when they were the most excited. You don't
know what happened. You don't know what entered into their life at that
particular moment. Maybe they got the letter in the mail that their high
school reunion is coming up and they're not feeling it, they want to lose

some weight before that happens. Maybe they got the news that there's
NOTES
going to be a layoff at their office. You don't know.
If you wait seven days they might find out, "Good news you're not laid off."
And they are like, "Screw it, don't need this stuff." The moment that they
found you they sought you ought. They found you. Give them at least the
opportunity to give you money then. Don't force them to wait or you will
lose out on a lot. Now the people that aren't ready yes you're going to have
follow-ups. You want to nurture them. Of the people who were hot, ready
to go give them the option to give you money and you'll find that they give
you more money. It's a crazy process.
Alright, so not dragging out the buying process. The other big thing that
you can do in your lead magnets if you want to mitigate this issue is don't
have these massive big lead magnets. I know people you opt-in it's like get
the free report. It's like a 280-page report. No need to buy anything from
you right now. I've got to get through this thing first. Okay. Stop doing
that crap. Show value. You don't have to show value in terms of bulk.
show values in terms of quality and so the answer to this whole thing is
what we call the sandwich page because basically what you're doing is you
are sandwiching a small sliver of content between the opt-in and the sales
process. It creates a nice slick shoot to go through.
And the example I'm going to show you, which pains me to show it because
I don't like to give this guy credit because, no he's a buddy of mine but he's
arrogant. Never mind, I'll show that in a just second. Alright sandwich
page. Small, easily consumed piece of content sandwiched between the opt-
in page and the sales page. Alright so here's the best example that I've ever
seen in my life. Yes Evan Pagan. I'm talking about you again. But you're
still a goober.
Alright. One of the best example, DoubleYourDating.com. I got to give

Evan credit for this because he did this without even realizing what he was
doing, because I've since talked to him about it. I'm like, "Man that was so
genius what you did here." And he was like, "I just was bored and didn't
want to write more." But it worked out great. So here's a squeeze page, a
great short form squeeze page. People opt-in, the promises you're about to
learn secrets that most men will never know about women and inside you'll
learn the kiss test. How to tell if she's ready to be kissed, the difference
between how men and women think about dating and why, blah, blah, blah.
But the big bullet point the kiss test.
Everybody who opts in wanted to learn the kiss test. How can I know if
she's ready to be kissed? And he knew that because he polled his people.
That was one of their big concerns for men. On a first date it's that awkward
moment like, "Awe is she ready?"
He knew that was a big button so he put that right up on top and when you
opt-in what do you get? You get the kiss test. Here it is. This is the
magical kiss test. It's a whopping one, two, three, four, five, six paragraphs.

Two of them are only one line. That's the kiss test. How long would it take
NOTES
you to read that? Go ahead read it, time it. I've got…no. Not long. Not
long. Maybe a minute. No time at all but what's cool about it is you
instantly get value. You read it and you say, "Huh, I bet that works. I want
to try that." So value is given. It's about quality not quantity.
Tremendous value is given but it's so easily consumed. Look you can dump
a library on people but if they never consume it they're never going to
experience the value. Alright? Give them an opportunity to experience the
value by giving them an opportunity to consume it. So come up with
whatever your coolest, best idea is and give them that. And the thing is
that's been said. How many of you guys have heard that? Come up with
your best thing and give it away. Right? It's a concept called the free line.
You guys heard that? Evan talks about it.
It is one of the most misunderstood concepts in marketing that I've heard in

my life because people think, "Oh my best stuff?" Well I'm going to give
them a whole freaking course because that's my stuff." No. They're not
going to consume it guys. Give them your best thing. What's the really,
really cool trick that you can tell them about that they go, "This guy knows
his stuff." I can go out tonight and I can try that and experience value.
That's what free line content's all about. So be thinking about that. Don't be
thinking, "What's some special report?" If right now, if you're giving away
a seven part course on something probably somebody told you you need to
have a seven part course. Probably you only had one idea, good idea and
the rest of them kind of filler. Ditch the other ones, okay? It's not about
quantity. It's about quality.
I think I just said all this. Alright so here's how, oh after you read that
though, so let me go back. See you read these whopping six paragraphs
then what's the call-to-action? Next page. What are you thinking when you
click next page? More content, more awesomeness. And it looks the same.
Now what he didn't do was send people from the free line, from his content,
right? And then send them over to his sales page that looked completely
different that had a header on top and stuff like that. You break them right
out of the cycle. See how it looks exactly the same? Still looks like an
article? Got to do that. If you just send them from there and they click on
next page and it goes to a page that just looks like a totally different website
or you send them to a totally different website you've blown it.
Congruent. Congruent, congruent, congruent, congruent. Can't say it that

many times. Congruent. So they go here and then they see this and wow.
So they go here and this begins the sales process but it starts off with more
content. So it eases them into it. It's the slippery shoot that just keeps them
going. Slippery shoot that just keeps them going. They want to read.
Here's a way that we did it on, for the offer that I showed you guys. We
switched from sending them a report to just sending them to this short little
video. It's only two minutes and 24 seconds long. Two minutes and 24
seconds long. So you can still do it with video. Say, "I got a video that's

going to show you how to do this." Just don't have to be a 45-minute video
NOTES
guys. Certainly not on low ticket products. You don't need to do that much
heavy lifting. And you're leaving a lot of people on the sidelines.
I want to show you, I found this squeeze page about a year or so ago. It was
one of the better ones that I've seen. I kind of want to break down it's
different elements because it's a good kind of review for the landing page
topic and then we'll talk about getting e-mails opened. It's a golf offer and I
know the guy who owns this site, does really, really well with it. So it does
a lot of good things right. So if you're looking for another squeeze page to
model this is another good one to model. It's got a good demo video on the
upper left hand corner that's not very long. The cool thing about this demo
video, see they're selling a long drive course and all this guy's doing is he's
like, "Hey how's it going? I'm going to drive this golf ball through some
plywood." And he's just pummeling these golf balls through plywood,
proof, proof. He's not selling anything. He's just like, "I'm the man."
And the idea is if I can hit a golf ball through plywood you think I can show
you how to get an extra 10, 20 yards on your drive? I mean you instantly
believe it. What Frank talked about last time in the last session about how if
people aren't buying from you they don't believe, they either don't want it or
they don't believe you. Demonstrating that you know what you're talking
about is one of the best ways to overcome that. That video does that. So he
doesn't go on and on and on, just short little video of him being awesome.
We got the opt-in button right down below. Again now if I were doing this
I would probably test a horizontal opt-in box but they've got multiple ones.
They got them in the upper right hand corner, down here, everywhere you
look there's an opportunity to take action. They've got really good proof so
you can see 'as seen in Golf Digest'. And guys don't say you were seen in
somewhere if you weren't actually seen in there. That's called lying. Don't
do that. I've seen so many people do that and they're like, "Well I might
have maybe run an ad there at one point." It's like duh. Just don't do that.
But here's what made this work, it's the call-to-action, the call-to-action
made this work and I went ahead and wrote it out. I'll read it to you guys.
So picture this, he just got done driving these golf balls through plywood.
Then he says, "Hi I'm Nile. Please enter your name and email address in the
form and I'll send you one power secret, not seven power secrets. I'll send
you the one power secret that I just used to hit these golf balls through
plywood that will instantly add 20 to 30 yards to your drive." Is that a good
promise? Is that a good lead magnet? So he just proved that he could do it
by showing he. He's like, "I'm going to show you the one power secret," not
10, not 20, not a book, not a course. Give you one power secret that will,
in12 weeks, no instantly add 20 to 30 yards to your drive. Very, very good
message. Really, really, really good copy.
There's some things on it that aren't perfect. We talked about navigation

before. I'd test removing that. The headline is Free Video Lessons. Kind of

weak. This is done in a blog platform so that was forced upon him but
NOTES
there's ways to get around that by editing the CSS.
The lead magnet he talks about, the one thing that I'm going to show you but
the promise is claim your seven free HD training videos. Wait, I thought it
was one. Congruency, congruency, congruency. Okay? He promised the
one big thing and now I'm getting seven videos. Wait am I opting in here
for the same thing he talked about there? I don't understand. And a
confused mind says no. I would test orange. Orange add the cart and
orange opt in buttons. We tested a bunch of different colors and orange out
pulled red. Red says stop. They've done studies, orange is as noticeable as
red but it doesn't say stop. That's why we think it worked. We have
absolutely no idea. We just know we tested a bunch and that's what works.
Every now and then I'll have somebody come up to me and they'll say, "Oh I
tested it and green was better." Well you know what? I'd stick with the
green. But if you're looking for a control I'd start with orange. Alright,
thank you. Yes.
Again low self-esteem, low self-esteem. Alright. I'm not done yet so don't
leave. Alright the next parts aren't as long as the first one. I promise I'm
going to get you started to lunch on time. So we talked about the landing
page. Getting more emails. You guys feel like you got a good grasp on that
now? Got at least a good starting point? Okay.
Part two, we're going to talk about getting your emails opened. Getting your
emails opened is a function of one thing and one thing only. Well it's a
function of two. The first thing it's a function of is do they know you? I'm
assuming that you're not spamming people. So setting that aside hopefully
you have some relationship. Hopefully they know you. But the main thing
at getting your emails opened is a function of is the subject line. So here's
some proven subject lines. You want to think in terms of odd numbers,
having weird, odd numbers in your subject lines. Why you paid Google
$524,838.71. Odd numbers. They don't necessarily have to be money
numbers but odd numbers are good.
Question marks. Questions marks. You ask a question. There's an

assumption that there's going to be an answer on the inside. Enter the
question mark.
Percentages, similar to question marks. They're kind of a weird little digit.

99% of people dieting need to do this.
Having the little bracketized video, new video or a free report or putting
PDF. You guys seen that? If you're sending somebody to download a free
PDF test putting PDF in brackets in your subject line. And RE as a reply.
Now this is overdone a lot and people will put in RE when it's not actually a
reply. Let me tell you the right way to do an RE, to do a reply in a subject
line that also means less work for you. So it's sort of double duty. If you
send out an email promotion and you want to do an update to it or

something like that, you send out an email and then you just do a reply,
NOTES
copy and paste the previous email that you sent below and then write
another message that says, "Hey I realized I forgot to mention this in my
previous email below. So I wanted to make a special point of it." Or, "Hey
I don't know if you got my email below but the offer ends on Thursday.
Please read it." Then you're essentially replying to your email that you sent
out. So you do RE, the same subject line you had before. It's a really good
strategy. Delivers some heavy open rates. If you do it every day you just
look like a tool. So don't do that.
And there's some people that every freaking email I get from them says,
"RE." And personal pronouns – you, your, etc. Some other proven subject
lines peak curiosity, confuse or shock. Here's a good one that you'll love
Bill and I don't know if Dan's in the room but Bill you were saying one of
the best, one of the good ways that you all tested for envelopes, teasers on
envelopes was do not bend. Photos enclosed. Alright, works really well.
An envelope. I went ahead and wrote it as a subject line. Doesn't make
sense. But you get an email that says, "Photo enclosed, do not bend." It's
kind of going to peak your curiosity as long as there's actually a photo in
there. I don't know how you're going to bend an email but…
Ryan Deiss retires. Why I love hotel bars? Oh this is my favorite – chuckle
head does 3.8 million first two years online. I just love the phrase chuckle
head. I use it in as many things as possible. Negative subject lines. Frank
did a whole video about this during his first mask control when we talked
about the rubber necker affect. It's unfortunate but it's a reality. Things are
bad dot, dot, dot. Maybe. That was one that we did that worked really well.
Don't take it personally but…
Oh I hate technology. That was one that I sent out. And one word dot, dot,
dot, crazy. All those things kind of peak curiosity, get the open rate. So
those are some subject lines you can kind of play with and again
DrivingTraffic.com/RyanHandouts.PDF. You can have these for your own
swipe files.
Time of your email delivery also helps to function, is a function of open

rate. Best time. We mail out at 4:30am Central Standard Time, 4:30am
Central Standard Time. That pretty much insures, because when do most
people check email? First thing in the morning. That pretty much insures
that we're right there. Best days – Tuesday thru Thursday. And a big tip
weekends are great for low dollar and lead generation offers. A lot of
people think, "Don't mail on weekends. Nobody's checking their email."
Horse crap. You guys check your email on weekends. You just don't have
time to necessarily read them all. So take advantage of the vacuum in most
market places by mailing on the weekends when your competitors are not
but don't mail high ticket offers. Mail something they can look at, read and
go, "Oh that's cool. Bye."
Part three, getting the click thru. Move kind of quickly here. Short emails
as a general rule get higher click thru rates. And I believe that the job of the

email is to get the click. I'm not necessarily trying to sell an email. I like to
NOTES
get the click. So the shorter the email, if you're email comes in in most
people's browser and it's all above the fold they could see it all right there.
They'll typically make a decision to go ahead and read it. If they've got a
scroll then they'll make a decision of do I want to read this now or do I want
to wait and read it later? When it's later? Never. So unless you just got a
really great reason try to keep it all above the fold.
Highest click thru rate, link placement. Have a link right after the first
paragraph. Have a link midway down the body and have a link in the close
or the P.S. Every email that we send out, I don't want to say every email
because somebody's like, "You sent an email out yesterday that only had
one." Pretty much every email that we sent out, certainly if I'm the one
that's writing it it has three links in it right after the first paragraph. Again
pick off, pick the low hanging fruit, get the people who need to know more
and then get people who dropped right down to the P.S. and read that. It's
the same three types of markets.
Images and emails increase click thru rates up to 120%. Here's what I
mean. If you're sending people to watch a video take a screen shot of the
video, insert it. You've got to do an HTML email to do this, but insert it
into your actual email where the play button is visible. If you see what
looks like a video in your email inbox people click on it and go, "Cool I can
watch it." Oh. It opens a new video in a new window but you still got the
click and as long as the video that starts playing is the same video that they
thought they clicked on there's nothing wrong with it. You're delivering
what the promise is.
But if it's just an image the click thru rates aren't near as good as if it's an
image, a screenshot of the video with the play button still visible. The play
button is what makes that work.

RYAN DEISS – part two
NOTES
Ryan: Alright so sneaky tricks. You all want some sneaky tricks? Since
we had some people come in late after I said it the handouts, the link for the
handouts, DrivingTraffic.com/RyanHandouts.pdf. That is the link. It's just
not there yet, okay? I literally thought I should create a page and put it up
there as I was walking up and I wrote it down over there. I haven't had a
chance to put them up. So they will be there. It's Sunday today so my guys
at work they may be up there tomorrow. I apologize for the delay. I
should've thought of it sooner.
Alright sneaky tricks and these are just going to be rapid fire conversion
boosters. Take note of these. Remember you're going to get these handouts
so don't freak out if I move a little bit fast. How many of you guys have
blogs and do opt-ins on your blogs? Okay this is one of the cool things that
we've done. My buddy, Dean Hunt, was the first one to tell me about it. It's
called a Bottom Up Pop Up. When somebody goes to your page a little pop
up appears from the bottom. Much, much, much better than having an opt
in form embedded on the right hand side. It doesn't mean you don't do that.
You should just do this in addition to.
Basically all of Dean's opt ins come from that pop up. Almost none of
them come, you see on the right hand side where it says, "Subscribe?"
Granted that's one of the suckiest opt-in offers I've ever seen in my life. It's
a fanged rabbit holding a sign that says, "Subscribe." Alright, that might've
worked in 1998 but even still the bottom up is good.
Here's software that does it – InstantSlideUp.com. InstantSlideUp.com. No

that's not an affiliate link. Check it out. InstantSlideUp.com. A really,
really cool idea if you have a popular blog post embed an opt-in form in
your actual blog post. If you're getting a blog post and getting a lot of
things, embed an opt-in form in your actual blog post but don't leave it there
forever. If every single one of your blog post has an opt in form in it you
start to look like a chucklehead. Remember the phrase we're talking about
before? That would make you a chuckle head if you're wondering what a
chuckle head was. So don't do that. Take it away. You can maybe replace
it with a link that goes somewhere but embedding opt-in forms in popular
blog post is a great way to get a nice surge of opt-ins especially if one of
them goes viral.
I talked about this, the video fake out that bumped opt-in rates up to 48%.
Basically you have a screen shot, a screen shot of a video on your page that
they're going to receive after they opt-in and you make to where because
you see it's got the play button, if they click the play button it doesn't play.
Instead it says, this one says, "Whoa easy there Trigger. Enter your email
address in the box right under the arrows and click the button that says, 'free
instant access' to watch the videos." So it's another call-to-action that they
trigger. So when they click the button to try to watch the video it says,
"Nope you've got to opt-in to watch the video." A little bit annoying,
especially after you've seen for the 5,000th time but it works really well.

NOTES
And again in this particular case ContinuityBlueprint.com/Publisher.html.
If you want to see this page and rip off the thing that product is not for sale,
Bill, so don't worry I'm not trying to do any.
So ContinuityBlueprint.com/Publisher.html if you want to go to that page.

Have your tech person do a view source and steal the Java script code that
makes that work. It's like three lines of code, really, really simple.
Subtle arrows. Subtle arrows that draw the eye to opt-in forms. See there's
one there. There's one there. These have been shown to increase rates as
well because they define eye path. You all got to realize that. We don't
think for ourselves. I think it's one of the ways that we keep from going
insane, because we get hit with so much information. So anything that
makes it simpler we're buying in.
Here's another example. Subtle arrow. These not so subtle arrows but
arrows nonetheless. Speaking of that last page cartoon calls-to-action. We
tested this. Every now and then you do a split test that you hope doesn't
work because it is so weird and cheesy and in this case we tested one of
these videos right here. You see the little cartoon video? You can go to
SitePal.com and you can create a cartoon version of yourself. You record
an audio of you talking and it basically matches the mouth. So there's
cartoon you or it could be it could be a hot dog up there talking. And we
actually did have a cartoon hot dog at one point talking about stuff. It didn't
work. It didn't convert worth a crap but it was funny.
Audience: What was the site?
Ryan: SitePal.com, S-I-T-E-P-A-L dot com, SitePal.com. This one you

guys might find interesting. We did a little test because pretty much
everybody when they're collecting email addresses ask for first name and
email address. And what I realized was we weren't really using the first
name field because when you're sending emails out to your list if every
email's like, "Hi Ryan. Hey Ted." People are on to that. They're on to the
fact that okay you can get my email address and you can put my name up
there. They get the mail merging, email merging thing. They don't think it's
personal anymore, at least in more sophisticated markets.
And if you think about how when you email your friends you're not like,
"Hey Bob." You might be like, "What's up? What's up turd licker?" You
might say something like that but probably just going to be like, you're just
going to start typing. If it's a more informal thing we don't have the greeting
anymore. So we weren't really using the first name field. So what I did is I
said, "What would happen if we dropped the first name field and just asked
for email address?" It wasn't a huge bump in opt-ins but any bump is better
than no bump when you're not using the data. We saw an increase on one
up to 18%. So test dropping that first name field and just collect an email
address and see what it does.

This is a pretty good idea if you're selling a product, certainly if you're
NOTES
selling a product via a video sales letter. We do a lot of that. They work
really, really well from a conversion rate but still the bailout is quite high
because people don't feel like they can, they may not want to sit there. So
what we'll offer folks when they leave we'll pop up a little window and I
think you can go PopUpDomination.com will do this. But we'll just pop up
a window that says, "Hey," you can't really read it but it says, "Start your
training right now for free." And you can see it's got, see how it says
module one of the video? Again it makes it look like if they click that that
they can just start watching module one but if they click it says, "Whoa.
Whoa there Trigger. Opt-in to watch module one." So we're collecting
leads on exit by allowing them to kind of preview the content and really
what we're doing is they're watching a little piece of it.
A good principle to follow in creating any of your products the first chapter
if it's a book or the first module if it's an audio or a video really should
resale the concept. It's a good stick strategy. It's a good reminder. But you
can also use it in this capacity to sell the concept. In this case you're not
reselling it. So you have the first part. The resell's the concept and then you
kind of cut in a call-to-action, go to this page right here to buy.
Affiliates sometimes they don't want to send traffic straight to opt-in forms.
So collecting opt-ins on exit is a good way to do it. For this particular offer
we collected 14,891 subscribers from people who were leaving the page that
opted in to that right there from affiliates. So those have been people that
just would've come and that list does not include people that bought because
if they buy we remove them from that list. So the list was a lot higher but
through follow-up we convert a lot of them into customers. So think about,
if you're doing a direct sale, collecting the lead on exit.
The invisible opt-in. How many of you guys have been to one of my sites
or somebody else's site and seen a video sales letter where there is no order
button? It appears after the fact. Have you all seen that? Works amazingly
well for offers. It also works really well for opt-in pages. If you send
somebody to a video and there's no opt-in page you don't need to let it run
for too long and then all of a sudden boom that thing pops up. The novelty
of like where the heck did this come from, if they're there for more than a
minute or two pretty much everybody opt ins. It's like 90% of the people
who go to this page wind up filling that in if they're there for more than a
minute or so.
And it's a hidden buy button script. You could do a search in Google for
hidden buy button script and stuff like that. There's some of them out there.
Some people selling them. Some people giving them away for free. It's,
again, basically just a little Java script code that you say, "After this many
seconds make this appear." So that's how that works.
Yeah in this case it beat the static forms three to one to cold traffic, again,
especially in sophisticated markets. If you go to a web page and you see a
little video there and you see an opt-in form you know what's going on,

right? You guys are mature. You know what's going on. If you go to a
NOTES
page and there's just a video and that's it there's no way to take an action
your barriers drop a little bit. You think, "Oh this is just content. This is
like You Tube." Cool. Until you watch and it's able to kind of get you
drawn in a little bit more.
Really cool tool, I talked about this before, Pop Up Domination. Again this
is not my tool. That is not an affiliate link. It's just something that we use.
It creates some of the most beautiful pop up lead capture forms that I've ever
seen. And this guy is a student of mine. So a lot of the stuff that we tell
you to do, in terms of having the subtle arrows and things like that, he
already has built into this. So if you want a tool that can build you really
nice looking email capture forms via pop ups this is a good tool. Again I
don't make any money promoting that. Not that I'd apologize if I did. It's a
great tool. But that goes straight to the page. It's not an affiliate link or
anything.
How many of you guys blog? Who's got blogs out there? How many of you
guys are capturing the email address of people when they leave a comment?
Now what do you think? If somebody goes to your site, reads a post and
leaves a comment is that a pretty valuable visitor? Would you like to know
who those people are? This tool right here, OptInComments.com is a Word
Press plug in that the way that it works you go in, you install the
plug in and you go in and you select what service you're using. So I use
AWeber or iContact, One Shopping Cart. I think it even integrates with
Infusion. And it, sorry, and what it does is it adds another field to your
comment box. So they enter their email address and there's a little check
box that says, "Subscribe me to the newsletter," or "Send me something for
free." And if they check that then they get subscribed. They're basically
opting in while they're filling out the comment box. Is that pretty cool?
Do you get a thousand people a day? No. You only get the best people, the
most active people. The people most excited about what you're doing. So
we're talking about list segmentation and stuff like that. These are your
hottest people. These are the people you're definitely going to want to
follow up with. You're going to want to treat those folks like gold.
PDF squeeze forms. How many of you guys know that you can have an opt-
in form inside of a PDF document? Anybody? One of the coolest strategies.
It's kind of a pain in the butt to do. And again just Google 'opt in form in
PDF.' There's stuff out there that'll show you how to do it. If you got a tech
person they can show you how to do it. We did this for the Perpetual Traffic
Report, which is a report that I wrote leading up to a
launch that I did. We knew that people would download the report and that
they would just start passing it around. They wouldn't necessarily send their
friends out there to do it. We also knew that it would be put up on PDF
sharing sites like Scribed and things like that. Those of you who know
social media you're familiar with that.

So if this thing's going to go viral, if it's going to get out there, if people are
NOTES
going to pass it around without opting in then I want to have an opportunity
to get it. So we added this opt-in form right there on the first page. So
when you download the report it's, "Hey if you want to get some other stuff
here you go." All they have to do is be on the internet for that form to work.
So it's in a PDF environment. It's not like they're reading it on a web page.
They download the PDF. It's right there on the form. Enter it. Boom.
Very, very, very cool.
We tracked, I think we got, I want to say like 9,000 something opt-ins from
people passing around that form. 9,000 opt-ins. They're probably opt-ins
we wouldn't have got otherwise. Along the same lines software and plug-in
giveaways. If you can create a very cool piece of software and I realize that
this a little more advanced. It's not going to work for all markets but if you
can come up with a cool software application. It doesn't have to be anything
big. Doesn't have to be that complicated. It just has to be something that
somebody wants. And I recommend that you get it coded, write this down,
in Adobe Air. Adobe Air, because Air is a Mac and PC cross platform tool.
So we gave it away for free. It's a piece of software called Cherry Picker
and it's a market research tool, but the great thing is when you go to the
website to get Cherry Picker and this was fantastic for affiliate because it
was like, "Look no opt-in required." Just send them to the page to download
it. So they went, they clicked the link to download it or they could watch a
video to learn more about it, they downloaded it. They got it, right? Well
when they get it they register. Well it's a registration process also called an
opt-in form, right?
So they went there, they registered, entered their first name, last name and
email address. The beautiful thing about a registration form you can ask for
a whole lot more than that if you wanted. If people want the software bad
enough they'll be like mother's maiden name, social security name, bank
account information. I'm not suggesting it but if people want something bad
enough they can do that. What did that say? Oh yeah, so after they enter it
it just says, "Thank you so much for registering. Check your email address
for your registration code."
Also in that same email we began the promotional process. So we sent them
back to the inbox where they could click on something and then go back to a
web page that we had. This generated 32,980 leads from that piece of
software and that was as of, and it's still going. People are still downloading
it every single day. Software has a really nice tail on it. So 32,000 leads,
32,000 leads generated. Really, really good. People love software. They
absolutely love it. And again it doesn't have to be complicated. You're not
designing Microsoft Office or anything like that. Just has to be some little
application that people want. The simpler the better.
Facebook comments. This isn't so much a list building strategy directly as it

is kind of a viral marketing strategy but it worked really, really well. On all
of our websites we did a Facebook plug in where people can comment via

Facebook. So I know this gets a little bit advanced and it's gets a little bit
NOTES
social media-ee but if you go to, again, just Google Facebook comment
plug-in. If you've got a Facebook account you can go in there. It's just a
little piece of code that you put on your website and it generates this right
here. Most people today, I mean Facebook's got like 500 million users. It's
got more users than the population of, I don't know, you've all heard the
stats probably. A butt ton of people are using Facebook. And most of them
are logged in at all times.
So if they're logged in at all times and they can comment right here on your
page via Facebook when they do that it shows up in their Facebook timeline.
So other people that know them will see, "Oh this is really cool. So and so's
reading this page. Or so and so likes this page or commented on this page."
That shows up in their timeline. They see it. We attributed to 16,000 leads
to this campaign right here through tracking, all through the viral
components.
Frank talked about during the list control launch he did like 70 or 80,000
opt-ins and that's a lot. That's on the high side of launches in this particular
industry. We did a 130 some thousand through these, which basically
means I'm better than Frank Kern. No. No but it all came as a result of
stuff like this. Extra little things that get you going. So I recommend put
the Facebook comments on there. You can moderate them but it's a really
good thing to have on your sites.
Cart abandon hot list. Basically two stepping your order process. Right
now a lot of you guys when people buy online you're just sending them
straight to an order form. Right? How many of you guys are doing that? A
really good strategy to do if you're not collecting the lead on the front end is
when they click the buy button you send them not straight to an order form
but to order confirmation step one of two. In order confirmation step one or
two they give you their email address, their first name and their last name.
When they click submit you pre-populate the actual order form with that
information but now you have those people on a hot list.
If you're doing well the industry average, the internet average, and this is
just going to make some of you guys some puke in your mouth, but on
average 85% of the people who go to your order page, not to your website,
to your order page will leave without buying. Can you imagine if you own a
McDonald's and 85% of the people walked in and said, "I'll have? Nah." I'm
mean that's freaking weird. What are these people doing? I don't
understand. I don't understand why these, you go to the web page you click
on the thing and then you just leave. 85%, like 50% would seem high. 85%
in some cases it's a lot higher. If you've got physical products and the
shipping is higher it could be in the 90s. So this allows you to capture those
people and put them through their own follow-up sequence. Hey we noticed
you tried to order. We're sorry something must've happened and you put
those folks through a follow-up sequence. This will suppress orders a little
bit. Putting this extra step in here will suppress orders a little bit but having
the ability to follow-up with people more than makes up for that, and again

you're doing lead generation, lead capture. This is especially good if you've
NOTES
got affiliates promoting your stuff that don't want to send traffic through an
opt-in form first. This is a good way to still get their peoples.
My favorite list building strategy of all and still most people don't realize
what the heck is going on, is Frank Kern in the room? Good because I want
to tell you a little secret about that. How many guys do webinars and
teleseminars? How many of you do them with other people as an affiliate?
You've got a product and then other affiliates are going to do them? Okay,
do you run your teleseminars or do they run the webinars and teleseminars
to their list? You run them? Alright, that's what we do.
So we got the webinar registration form and I told Frank, because we did a
webinar together and I told Frank, I said, "Look man, out of the kindness of
my heart because I'm such a nice guy, I will do all the webinar set up for
you. I'll run everything through mine. You don't have to worry about
anything at all. Nothing. I've got it taken care of buddy." So he sent a
bunch of people. Registered I don't know 12,000 something folks to the
webinar. What is a webinar registration form? It's an opt-in form. That's it.
It's an opt-in form. But affiliates don't think about it the same way. Your
people who are registering don't necessarily think about it the same way but
now they're on your list. If you're using GoToWebinar you can export your
webinar registrants. Did you all know that?
GoToWebinar will allow you to export your webinar registrants. You can't
export them into AWeber, which I know is a very popular tool. They don't
allow importing but iContact, Infusion, all these folks they absolutely do
have them. And that is a list.
That's a list that you can use in multiple ways. You can continue following
up, adding them to your general broadcast list.
The other thing that we do is once somebody registers for a webinar we

replay the webinars. So if you registered for a webinar this week but didn't
buy, guess what you're going to hear about next week? The webinar. We're
just going to be like, "Hey webinar's coming again." They're like, "Oh crap
I thought that was the week before but I guess not. Maybe that was this
week." And you know what you're going to hear about the next week? A
webinar. How about the week after? Just keep them in a follow-up loop for
what they signed up for and in GoTo Webinar it's as simple as, "Replay this
webinar." Don't drop that. You can replay the webinar and they'll start
sending out all the same emails for you.
For us we don't use GoToWebinar because they've get a little weird after you
put about a thousand, if you put more than a thousand people on them. So
we developed our own solution for it but we still model our webinar
registration forms after GoToWebinar's. In fact the link that we send people
to it's like Go.WebinarMeetings.com/. We don't want it to look like they're
registering for something on our page. We want it to look like a third party

registration form. You guys catching that? Alright. It's big for teleseminars
NOTES
especially.
When we did a launch and we had a bunch of people to promote, promote a

webinar during a launch, this was, I believe, in the for currency trading. We
generated 31,000 subscribers. Many of them from affiliates who said they
did not want to mail in an opt-in form. Webinars are beautiful. Our number
one list building strategies of all, webinars.
Remember when I talked to you guys last session about the mind maps, how
mind maps are a really great giveaway. People are into that. You guys
remember that? You all a little sleepy after lunch? Do I have to remind you
again, low self-esteem. Thanks. Hey for the record these guys are
awesome. You guys kind of suck. I'm just kidding. My wife's sitting on
that side. She's like, "That's not cool." That way I ensure I always get one
clap. I was talking before about giving away the mind maps as part of the
tool. Here's a really great way to do it.
You're not going blind. There's not an issue with the resolution. That's all
kind of fuzzed out. So we take a mind map and you can just almost read
those words. You think if I squint just a little, I'm going to get some better
glasses. No crap, I still can't read it. No it's fuzzy. We fuzzed the things
out. You apply, I think it's a gaussian blur filter. I hate that I even know
that. But you apply that to the image. Have a graphic designer do it, huge.
Huge opt in rates because it's that, they're just so close. Come on. But you
want it. How many of you guys who've heard me talk about importing from
China would like to have that flow chart? Anybody? Mom, again thank
you. Two people great. That was not a trial close guys. It's okay.
But no it's very, very, very effective, very effective when you're giving away
a flow chart. And in this case we have no other words on the page. It's free.
Complete blueprint for importing from China. Just enter your name and
email address, boom we'll send it to you.
How to double your response without doubling your list size. This is
something that I bet a lot of you guys didn't even know you could do. In
AWeber, iContact and Infusion you have to call them and ask them how you
do it. But they'll all know what you're talking about. You can create email
segments for your unopens. So for a given campaign you'll send it out and
what's a good open rate? Anybody want to guess? I'm just curious what
you guys normally get? How much, what's your open rate? 25% open
rates? You're good. Ours aren't that good. Three to seven. It depends on
your market. 10, 15 but let's say on the high side 25%. That means 75% of
your people did not open the email. Now why is the only reason why they
would not have opened your email?
Okay so there's two reasons. Dang it I hate it when I do that. There's only
ever one reason. Two. Alright maybe they have no idea who you are. All
that aside, assuming that you have a good relationship with your list, which
I'm presuming that. I'm presuming that you've got a good relationship that

you're not just spamming the phone book. The reason that they would not
NOTES
have opened it is one the timing or more likely the email subject line just
didn't resonate with them. So a lot of people are like, "Man we didn't get a
good response from that email. Let's send another one. Write a different
one with a different hook, a different angle. Maybe that'll get it." No, no,
no, open rates and click thru rates are two different metrics. If your open
rates are low it wasn't a message problem. It definitely wasn't a conversion
problem on the sale side. It was an open rate problem, which is a function
of your subject line.
So what we do every email we send we wait, it's either two or three days
and we remail our unopens. The exact same message with just a different
subject line. You don't have to write a new copy. Just create a new subject
line, one that's a little bit different twist. We'll do that two times. We will
get as many sales from the two follow up mails to the unopened's as we did
from the initial email. So it's effectively a way to double your list
responsiveness and the other nice thing is you're not blowing up your entire
list. You're only emailing the people that didn't open. For the people that
did open them you put into a different sequence, a different funnel. And
AWeber allows you to do this. iContact allows you to do this. Infusion
allows you to do this. Contact them. Say, "Hey, how the heck do I do
this?" And all of them have videos set up that show you how to do that.
They just don't do a good job of telling their customers that they do offer
that feature? Is that pretty cool? I didn't actually need a clap there.
But that will make you a lot of money. If you do that that will absolutely,
positively make you a lot of money.
Another neat strategy, if you're involved in a lot of launches and you want to
promote different people. Maybe their launching at the same time. One
thing that we'll do is we'll mail twice for somebody for a particular launch.
And then after that we only mail the people that opened those emails for the
rest of the launch process because the launch process is going for two
weeks. I'm not necessarily going to devote my entire list to an offer that's
going to go on for two weeks. You're bugging the hell out of them. They're
clearly not interested for whatever reason. It's not important. They're not
interested. Market to the people that are interested.
If you want to hone it down even more just promote to the people who have
clicked. And all that sub listing can be done. Okay? But we found it
doesn't affect our sales but instead of mailing to 300,000 people we're
mailing to 10,000. It also cuts down on our bills considerably. Anybody
who says email is free, by the way, yeah, the 20 to $30,000 I send to
iContact would tend to disagree, every month. Email's definitely not free
and it's getting more expensive. That's one of the reasons that Frank, Frank
and I are looking at direct mail. Oh so I can put a message in somebody's
hands for $0.50, 0.60 cents? That's cheap. Right now, in some cases,
spending more than that when you factor in what's your open rates.

One method that a lot of people don't think about is buying websites with
NOTES
lists. Buying competing websites that have email lists. You've got to
massage it a little bit. They don't necessarily know you. You've got to kind
of come up with a transitionery phase. It's something that I've done in the
past and works well. It's a good way if you want to grow quickly.
Flippa.com is a site where you can buy, to buy website, buy/sell brokerage
thing. Flippa.com. What you want to do is you want to do a search in Flippa
for the word 'subscribers' because typically if somebody has a website that
has a lot of subscribers they'll put that in their title descriptor. So in this
case here's one, "1,538 subscribers and a $250 a month income." Not huge
but they're selling it for a $110. So if that was relevant to your market
hundred bucks, you'd get another 1,500 subscribers, not too shabby. You've
got to kind of wonder why on earth they'd be selling something that makes
$250 a month for only a hundred dollars. If I'm them I'd just wait a month.
But it's kind of like selling it twice and you still got it. It goes back to a
little congruency issue that we're talking about. So maybe picked a bad
example there but there's lots of them out there that have it in given markets.
I noticed that CBEngine.com, CB Engine, this is a directory of Click Bank

products. So if your market has a lot of Click Bank products there is a
search field in there where you can, the product removal history, if you look
on the left hand side, it's kind of hard to see but you can look for products
that were removed from Click Bank, the people just kind of gave up on it.
They didn't want to have their product in Click Bank anymore. Usually
they've sort of given up. That's a great place to go and look. In this case see
all 122 removed products this month. If somebody's removed they've given
up. It's a great way to get not just product but also list. CBEngine.com, the
remove products list.
This is a neat strategy that definitely falls in the sneaky category that some
people may not agree with, but it works really well and it generates about a
91% opt-in rate. The way it works is if you have anything free to give away
– a report, works really good for software. You go into Twitter, you go out
to the forums, you go out to stuff like that and you just say, write a personal
message that just says, "Hey guys. I have a free copy of my new SEO
software that's awesome for anybody willing to give me their honest opinion
about it." So you're just saying, "Hey I've got something free I want you to
see. If you'll give me your honest opinion about this. Just drop me an email
and I'll shoot you a copy out instantly." So it's not go to this form to
download your free copy. It's, "Hey just drop me an email." Sounds very,
very, very chill, very kind of relaxed, thanks Julian. And you have an email
address.
Now what you do is you take that email address and you forward it on to
AWeber. Every AWeber list has an email associated with it. So when they
email this thing it will add them to their AWeber list. Now it's a double opt-
in process. So you're not pulling the wool over anybody's eyes here. They
will receive an email that looks something like this where they've got to
double opt-in to be on your list. And there's a couple ways you can play

this. This example is the most aggressive way possible and it's not actually
NOTES
what I would recommend but he says, "Hi. My email service says that you
have to give me permission to send you the software that I promised you.
Click the link below and it will be over to you in a second." And then
there's the confirmation email and it tells that they're going to be added to
the list.
So another way that you could play it, so I'll admit that's pretty aggressive.
That's telling people, because they're clicking the link thinking that all
they're getting is the software and in fact you're also adding them to a list.
What I would do is say, "Click the link and you'll get the software plus I'll
add you to my whatever, whatever list." Then it's a hundred percent above
board and at that point people can make a decision, is it worth being added
to this guy's lists to get the software, yes or no? So did you have a question?
Audience: When you send them to your list asking them to respond…
Ryan: I wouldn't send this to my list asking them to respond because I've
already have them on a list. This is good for going out to, well here, it's
good for going out saying things like in You Tube videos. Anything that
could go viral, "Hey got something cool that I want to share with you guys.
Just send me an email at…"
Craigslist. Craigslist is a big opportunity if you're in certain businesses.

Forums certainly. You go to forums and say, "Hey I've got this cool thing."
You got to be careful with it. You want to make sure you've got a
reputation. Twitter, Facebook, all the places especially in social media
where it's inappropriate to say, "Hey I got something cool for you guys. Go
to this to website to opt-in." If you tell people, "Send me an email."
Nobody really thinks hey that's weird. So it's a good, little kind of gorilla
strategy. Blog comments, mobile ads, postcards. We did this in classified
ads. Great way to get basically a hundred percent opt-in rate for classified
ads instead of a lot of people say in the classified ad, "Go this website to get
it for free. Send me an email at…" They don't have to opt-in. Kind of just
cuts down on that step. Does that make sense? Did you all catch that?
Alright. Yep.
Will it work with Infusion? I don't know if Infusion will assign you an email
address that when somebody sends an email to that address kind of auto
subscribes. I know it works with AWeber. I know it'll work with Get
Response. I don't know about those. You could ask them. There's probably
a way to do it.
This is one of my favorite new strategies. If you all haven't heard about this
it's really going to blow your mind. It's great from a social media
standpoint, Flow Town. FlowTown.com. What Flow Town will allow you
to do is to upload your subscribers, so this isn't so much a list building tool
as it is a list exposure tool. So with Flow Town you upload your subscribers
into Flow Town and it gives you where they are. I did it with me and it said
how you can contact me, where I'm at on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn.

These are all mine. If people have more social media profiles it'll list out all
NOTES
their different social media profiles and then I don't even know what the
heck that last one is. I have no idea what that is but apparently I signed up
for it. So it's got stuff that I didn't even know I sign up for because all these
things are driven by email addresses. So what it will do then is it will go
out there and automatically follow people on Twitter. It'll go out there and
automatically try to friend them on Facebook. You guys seeing how this
works?
So there's a lot of people that you have as an email, that you have their email
and email with them and that's great. But what if in addition to getting
emails from you they're also hearing from you on Twitter and you're
showing up in their Facebook channel. So now everywhere they turn they
see you. What's that going to do to your brand? What's that going to do to
how they perceive you in terms of being an expert? You're going to be their
person. When Dan talked earlier today about building that iron cage around
your people this builds an iron cage around them. They'll never stop seeing
you. You'll be everywhere. Your competitors won't do this and Flow Town
just automates, it automates the entire process and does just like a really,
really, really good job. Yeah?
No. So the question was can, I know, I think that's called spam though. I'll
just say no. Can you basically do the reverse of it? And no you cannot do
the reverse of it. Are there any questions about any…that's what I got from
a sneaky tricks thing. We got some time for questions. You guys got any
questions? Go ahead and come on up to the microphone if you've got
questions.
I apologize for the folks over here. Well you can use whatever microphone
you want.
Audience: So Ryan question for you regarding the webinars. So you do

webinar on your hosted service or GoToWebinar and you import the lists.
The question has to do with some people don't adopt to that as easily as
others. Could be all kinds of reasons. One of the questions, the question I
have is do you send more emails to that group? I see here guys that send
two emails a days to their newly adopted lists. Does that reduce the spam
ratios? Is there some direct connection with that?
Ryan: Well I can tell you from a spam perspective and making sure you
stay off the spam lists and don't get a lot of spam complaints, it's actually
better to send more emails than less. When somebody brings a, "Hey I've
got a list of 30,000 and they're fresh. I never mail them." They hate to hear
that. They'd much rather you be mailing them on a daily basis and have a
relationship with them.
In terms of the one a day versus two a day that's a function of your offer and
your market. I know John Alanis does two a day and has for a long time but
he's telling guys how to pick up women. They never tire of that stuff.

Audience: So one of the goals is obviously get people responsive to you
NOTES
and purge people out who don't want to respond.
Ryan: Yeah. One thing that we do, we will send an email out every 90
days for people who haven't opened an email from us in 90 days and say,
"Hey you haven't opened emails from us in 90-days. Please click on this
link just to show us you're alive. And if you don’t no worries, we'll just
assume you're not interested and take you off our list." That reactivates a lot
of people and we follow-up with them. We don't actually remove them
from our list. We just put them on a secondary list that we don't mail certain
offers to and things like that.
Audience: Okay. Okay, thanks.
Ryan: And I'll do, for the second time, I'll do these six questions and then
we got to close up. Yes?
Audience: Hey Ryan, like you just did, you mentioned things about basing
campaigns on open rate, on only mailing to people that opened. But the
open rates are not necessarily accurate of who read the emails.
Ryan: The open rates aren't accurate in that they're going to be low.
Audience: Right. If someone read it on a PDA or didn't engage the images.
Ryan: Right if they didn't activate their cookies and stuff like that. No,
you're right but it's still, they're pretty accurate. It's better than nothing and I
wouldn't do it with my own internal promotions. With my own internal
promotions we're going to mail them because that's an internal promotion
but it's more when you're trying to jockey hey 15 guys are promoting stuff at
the same time. How do I not pummel all these people? Yes sir?
Audience: Hi Ryan. You mentioned and Frank as well about direct mail.
What strategies are you employing to get direct mail mailing addresses from
your email lists?
Ryan: Direct mail mailing address from the email list?
Audience: Correct.
Ryan: We've got a lot of buyers that we never direct mailed. So that hasn't
been an issue with us. What we will do though, which is a strategy that I
got from, I saw from Ron LeGrand, which I don't know if Ron's in the room,
still is one of the most genius strategies that I've ever seen. You send an
email out to people saying, "Call up to get this free CD." And he puts
people on the phone off the deal and if they don't take that what I would do
is say, "Okay to get your free CD can I get your name and address so we
know where to send it?" And then I would go and try to sell them but you
capture that record first.

Audience: So basically another ethical bribe?
NOTES
Ryan: And just having really good, compelling offers. Low ticket stuff
gets them to buy a $7.00 eBook. Get them to buy something so you get
their credit card information and you know it's good. You know it's a good
record, good and accurate.
Another thing that you can do if you want to be kind of sneaky is you can go
and you could say, "I've got this free CD. No credit card required." And so
people go. It’s like, "Just fill out the information so we know where to send
your CD." And all the thank you page is, "Thanks so much. To help us
with shipping please just mail in a self-addressed padded envelope of this
size, postage included of this amount and we'll ship you out your free CD."
Or if you want you can just pay for shipping and handling here and we'll get
it out to you or you can just listen to the free download there. But that's a
good way to capture the record without having the credit card information.
Is that a little sneaky? Alright.
All this stuff, you guys got to kind of decide where to draw the lines on that
one.
Audience: I'm really impressed. What do you do to learn all this stuff?
Ryan: Well thank you by the way for the fantastic leading question. No
man we do it. We do it. We're in a lot of different markets and I got really,
really smart people around me that come up with fantastic ideas that I get to
take credit for. I mean that's really, at the end of the day, what it comes
down to. Everything that you've seen in this section maybe one or two of
them were my ideas. So I got an office full of 30 some people that
occasionally, when they're not screwing up stuff, come up with a good idea.
And I take credit for the good ideas and I publicly bash them when they
mess stuff up. That's kind of my…no I really do have fantastic people.
Audience: Thanks.
Ryan: And being in a lot of different markets helps because it's funny stuff
that worked so well in some markets you try in another one. You're like,
"Well that sucked." So that's how it works.
Audience: Cool.
Ryan: Yes sir?
Audience: Yeah I'm curious, you say we've got an 85% fall out rate on a
sales page. Have you ever tried following it up with a PDF sales page and
putting a buy now link right in the PDF?
Ryan: A PDF sales page and putting a buy now?
Audience: Yeah throwing it in an email.

Ryan: I haven't done that. But what we have done for the webinar
NOTES
registrants who didn't buy and this is a pretty good idea, for the webinar
registrants who didn't buy we send them out, we'll do a recording but then
we'll also follow-up with a transcript of the webinar. What's the transcript
of the webinar? It's a sales letter. So and that works really, really well. It's
good to take people out of the different modalities. If you initially tried to
sell to them via video and they didn't do it follow up with text. Follow up
with audio. People buy and consume in different ways.
Audience: I was just wondering if the PDF would work better on an open
rate than just text in the email?
Ryan: Frank tested email. He did it, I think, in August or something like
that sending out a thing, "Hey go download this free report." And the report
was good content but it was also a sales letter and it was just no opt-in
required. Just download the report and he said the conversions sucked.
Audience: Thank you.
Ryan: That's one test. I didn't try it but I think the reason that they sucked
was because again it requires consumption. I don't even think most people
know how to read anymore. Alright last two questions.
Audience: Ryan thanks a lot for a great presentation. I appreciate it. Two
questions. One is super quick. I'm in the dating/relationships space. Can
you tell us your URL or what place to follow you in that space? I missed it
earlier when you mentioned it.
Ryan: It is SageAdvice.com, I think. It was launched while I was in China.

I don't remember. Yeah. It's a continuation of one that we had before that
didn't work out. I think it's SageAdvice.com.
Audience: I'll track it down. Thanks.
Ryan: There you go.
Audience: So my real question is…
Ryan: But that one is dating relationships but it's targeted to women just to
clarify. It's not Evan's stuff. I couldn't tell anybody. I'm not even going to
go there. Never mind. My wife would've killed me if I would've finished
that sentence.
Audience: Okay so we have an email. It's short. No I said two questions.

One was quick. And second one is so important I'm going to knock over the
mic. So we have an email. It's short. They click. Great we can track click
rates. They go to a blog post. And let's say I have a hundred blog posts but
I don't necessarily want them to see them all there because I want to be
emailing them one at a time. I could do a membership site and when they
opt in put them in a basic free membership. They wouldn't even know it.

Control it. Any other ideas for controlling the visibility of specific things
NOTES
without getting into…
Ryan: Yeah there's a plug in that you can get, and I can't remember the
name of it so this is going to be like, "Oh that's awesome but it doesn't help
me at all." But there's a really cool plug in and if you go to Fool.com.
Audience: Full, F-U-L-L?
Ryan: F-O-O-L, Fool.com. It's Motley Fool. It's an investing site. Try to
read more than three of their articles. It'll pop up a thing that says, "Hey if
you want to read more you need to subscribe." And you can leave and clear
your cookies and stuff like that. And there is a Word Press plug in that will
do that, that will restrict it and I just cannot remember what it was called.
Sorry.
Audience: Cool. That's okay.
Ryan: But if you to a forum somewhere and say, "Hey where can I get a
plug in that does this?" People will lead you in the right direction. Google
is pretty cool with giving stuff like that.
Audience: I've heard of it. Yeah.
Ryan: Yeah.
Audience: Thanks.
Audience: Just want to compliment you on a brilliant presentation.
Ryan: Thanks.
Audience: The Pop Up Dominator, if you're using Word Press and you
have the CSS sheets do you go to the HTML? Do you modify CSS doing in
Adobe to use that particular application or is there a plug in that you would
use in Word Press that would perform the same function?
Ryan: That's the one we use man. I don't know what all we got to tweak to
have it.
Audience: It's a plug in?
Ryan: It is. Yeah Pop Up Domination is a plug in.
Audience: So it'll work in Word Press?
Ryan: Word Press plug in.
Audience: Okay. That was my question. Thank you.

NOTES
With Timothy Seward
Bill: Let me tell you a little bit about Timothy Seward and then I'm going to
tell you about the really coolest thing about Timothy Seward right now. So
let me just read this. Timothy Seward started a wholesale distribution
company in the bricks and mortar world in the 1990s and successfully sold
it freeing himself up for a new adventure. Realizing that technology was the
edge that allowed him to grow his successful business so quickly he went
back to school for a degree in computer science then he discovered the
internet. I thought Al Gore discovered the internet.
In a few short years Google, this is really cool, Google discovered him.
Google discovered him and his web marketing company ROI Revolution.
They made him a charter consulting partner for their Google Analytics and
Google website optimizing as well as a Google Adwords qualified
advertising company. Now do you know what those three things are?
Neither do I.
Today Timothy and his staff of 31 engineers and paid search engine analysts
guide the internet marketing efforts of dozens of companies, large and
small, in all kinds of businesses. If understanding Google and knowing how
to track the numbers of your business are important to you you won't find a
more qualified advisor. Now for that I'm going to tell you something right
now. When anybody ask me at all who do I get to help me with my Google
stuff, my pay-per-click I just send them right to Timothy. He is the guy. I
have a client in Australia. Just sent him right to Timothy last week. And
he'll tell you that. He keeps thanking me and sending me gifts. You can
thank me less and send me better gifts. But he is the guy to go to whether
he gives, I don't want his gifts. I'm just happy to connect people that he can
help.
But that's nothing. He's not talking about Google today. Here's what he's
talking, this is what happened. My last Mastermind meeting we're sitting
around the table and somebody brought this whole thing up about
retargeting banners. You guys heard about retargeting banners? A lot of
you probably know but not nearly enough of you know about this
retargeting thing.
Well at the whole Mastermind meeting all they kept talking about was
retargeting banners. I want to be honest with you I didn't know anything
about it. So I walked up to Lloyd Irving because Lloyd was really involved
in the conversation. I said, "How can I learn more about this retargeting
banners?" And he said to me, "Hey you're good friends with Timothy
Seward. He's does it for his clients." So I didn't even know what it was. So
Timothy came in for a day of consulting a couple of weeks ago and while
we were there we talked about it and I said to Timothy, "It'd really be nice if
we could let the people at the Info Summit learn about this latest, newest

thing that's like everybody in my world that's talking about that I didn't NOTES
know anything about." So with that said Timothy has agreed to share with
you this newest thing, which is about banner retargeting. So Mr. Timothy
Seward.
Timothy: So today you've learned a bunch of neat things about how to

build a list using, for the most part, email opt-ins. So today what I'm going
to show you is how you can actually build a list without email opt-ins. So
you can build a list of people that never give you their email address using a
really cool thing. In my opinion it's actually the hottest breakthrough for
2010 with Google and that's using what Bill calls retargeting banners but
what a lot of people call remarketing.
So just a little background on our company. We've been running Google

campaigns for clients. We're a full service agency since two months after
Google started their pay-per-click model. That was in February of 2002. I
ran my first ads on Google in April of 2002. And today we serve two
billion dollar a year clients. We serve seven Inc. 500 fast growth
companies. We serve dozens of million and multimillion dollar companies
that sell products online that do lead generation, opt-ins and that type of
thing. And our clients are all over the UK, Spain, all over Canada, the
Netherlands and Australia.
So have you ever been on a website and then after you left the website have
you ever noticed how the banner ads just kind of seem to follow you? So
maybe you're researching your next spring break vacation. You want to
take the family on a cruise. And so you go to www.NCL.com or you go to
some other cruise website. And you look around and you look around for
cruises and so forth and you leave that website and you go to all these other
random websites over the next three or four days and all you see are banner
ads for NCL or whatever cruise line website you were on or perhaps you
visit the site of one of my clients, which is iContact. iContact does a lot of
remarketing with banners. And you go to the iContact's site and then you
leave the site and just everywhere you look iContact banner ads everywhere.
So that whole process is basically known as retargeting banners. Bill calls it

that. It's also known as remarketing.
So today what I'm going to cover is just, first of all, a big overview of online
remarketing and retargeting. And this basically gives you a second chance
to reengage with your prospects. Again it's without an email list. You can
use emails and that's fine. You can do opt-ins but this is a little bonus thing
that you can do. So I'll cover that. I'll talk about how Google Adwords is
really a perfect platform for retargeting and why you can basically find or
let Google find those people again that have visited your website.
The third thing I'm going to do is I'm going to give you some what Google
refers to as Use Cases. Use Cases are just basically case studies or
examples of how people are using this right now in their marketing, in their
advertising. So if you sell products with an online shopping cart, I'll give
you a couple of examples of how you can use retargeting with an online
shopping cart. If you have some sort of trial model where people get like, to NOTES
use your software or use your service for 14 days or seven days or 30 days
or whatever and then you want them to opt-in with paid model. I'll show
you an example or two that you can use in that industry. And if you're just
wanting to build an opt-in list and then sell people stuff then I'll show you
how to do that too. So that'll be covered in the Use Cases and then how to
get started.
So first of all it's just sort of an overview of remarketing. So remarketing

turns online advertising on its head. So traditionally a prospect's first
interaction with your company is through your website, which then leads the
product or rather through an ad, which leads your prospect to your website.
With remarketing the ads don't trigger until after the prospect first visits
your website. So remarketing ads are designed to encourage prospects to
reengage with you, to come back to your website and to take the action that
you really want them to take in the first place but they didn't. So to take the
action, like to actually get the opt-in or if they did opt-in to get them to
make a purchase. So that's what remarketing is for.
So basically in it's very simplest form, again with remarketing users visit
your website and then users see your ad. It's basically that simple.
Now raise your hands in this room if you're currently using Google
Adwords right now to bring leads and traffic to your site? Okay, look
around. That's probably 50% of you. Alright, keep your hands raised if
you're using remarketing right now. Okay. I don't expect to see a lot of
hands but cool. We've got a bunch and thank you guys from digital
scrapbook experts.
Alright so remarketing with Google Adwords. Why do you want to use this
tool? Well first of all you could see that basically 50% of you raised your
hands who are using Google Adwords right now. So instead of having to
learn a whole new platform and a whole new system for doing remarketing
you already have access to the system with Google Adwords. So over this
next few slides I'm going to give you four, basically advantages of using
remarketing with Google Adwords.
The first is reach. So with Google, Google display network, the Google
display network by the way consists of multiple Google properties, for
example Gmail, for example Google Finance and also millions of websites,
news pages, blogs, forums and other sites which display targeted ads that are
provided, fueled through the Google engine. So if you've ever seen ads by
Google or you're familiar with the whole Adsense, Google Adsense ads
that's where our ads can show. Basically anywhere on the internet.
And speaking of reach, according to Com Score the Google Adwords

display network right now reaches 76% of all internet users in the United
States. And then worldwide the factor is 70% of all internet users in the
whole world will at one point or more during the month see a page that has
Google ads rendered on it. So it's got a pretty significant reach at 76% and
70%. So this basically means that you've got access to the largest
contextual and the largest display advertising platform on the planet with NOTES
Google.
The second point that I want to talk about is ad formats. So Bill brought up
the fact that this is retargeting with banners. And it is retargeting with
banners and banners are very effective because they take up a really big spot
on the page and it's really obvious. But what's not also known is that with
remarketing with Google you can also use text ads. As you can see the text
ad up there. You can also remarket with video ad formats. So you can
basically reengage these people who have already been to your website a
second time through three different methods of providing advertising to
bring them back into your fold. So text, image and also video format.
The third feature or the third reason why you want to use Google to do your
retargeting is transparency. So if any of you have ever used any other
search engines you know or rather any other display networks you know,
you've kind of struggled to get reporting and kind of find out data about
what's making these things tick. With Google you get not only click and
conversion data, you can also take advantage of a number of features like
CPC bidding or CPM bidding.
CPC is cost per click. A lot of these display networks only allow you to pay
on a cost per thousand basis, which is known as CPM. With Google you
can just pay by the click and only pay when someone actually clicks your ad
to go to your website. You can also use what's called above the fold
targeting. How many of you know that the real estate above the fold of a
web page is more valuable than the real estate below the fold? Above the
fold is basically what you see on your first screen. So there's actually a
check box in Google where you can specify above the fold targeting for
your remarketing.
You can do frequency capping. Frequency capping means that's let's say
you're selling something like Ryan talked about the 4X Trading System and
you're on Google Finance and you've got some people that are like day
traders and they're just refreshing the screen every 15 seconds because they
want to see what the latest stock price is for a certain thing. You don't want
to show your ad 50 times in a single day to the same person. With
frequency capping you can specify that I only want to show my retargeting
ad three times to a unique user per day. So that's what frequency capping is
all about.
Geo targeting, what that means is that you can set your ads to just run, let's
say your market is Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. You can specify that your ads
only run in the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania area if that's where you happen to
live and where your business is based. Or you can say just the United States
or you can say just North America, that type of thing.
And then finally you can use what's called day parting. And day parting
allows you to run your ads only at the time of day that's important to you.
So let's say your business relies a lot on phone calls and your people are
there answering the phone from 9:00 in the morning till 6:00 at night. So
you can specify with day parting that your ads only run from 9:00 in the NOTES
morning till 6:00 at night so that they're not seeing your ad and trying to call
you and nobody's there. They get an answering machine, that type of thing.
Now during the next few slides I'm going to be discussing the three concepts
that you need to know to be able to understand about remarketing so that
you can really grasp this and get this and be able to remarket effectively. So
the first concept that I want to teach is called segmenting with lists. So
think about lists for remarketing the same way you think about lists for
email. If you have iContact, which I hope you use or Constant Contact or
AWeber you all know that you can have different lists for people that are
interested in different things. And so that's the first concept of remarketing
is segmenting with lists. And then I'll talk about list duration and then the
most powerful principle is combining with lists.
Alright so let's talk about segmenting with lists. This is the most important
thing to grasp first. So lists are, in remarketing, the smallest segment that
you can directly target to. So you can have just one list of say all visitors to
your website. But that assumes that everybody comes to your website is of
equal value but isn't someone who clicked to your order sign-up page more
valuable than someone that just visited your home page and left after three
seconds.
So to recognize the varying degrees of value that different lists have to you
as they interact on your website or the various messaging that you want to
use to retarget to get those people back to your website, you'll want to set up
different lists. Now Google, this is very important, Google requires a
minimum of 500 people on each list before you can start retargeting them.
So if you create a list of say people that visit or do an add to cart function
and if you only have 10 of those people a week on your website that adds
something to your cart then it's going to take almost a year until you can
actually start using that list. So you want to make sure that whatever list
you that start to build you do it on a highly traffic page.
So the back story or rather the 'also story' is that the more traffic you have to
your website the better the marketing's going to work for you because the
faster you can build your list, which means the faster you can start using
your list. So again remember in order to use remarketing for every list you
have to accumulate 500 visitors to that page. That means you'll have 500
people on that list or 500 people to that group of page before you can start
using this. So that's very important feature that you should know about.
Alright the second concept that you should understand is what's called list
duration. So just as people who visited your order page are more valuable
than people who just visited your home page and left people who visited
your order page within the last seven days are likely more valuable than
people who visited your order page say three and a half months ago. So
with Google you can remarket to lists or people on lists up to a maximum of
540 days. So that's close to two years after they first visited your site.
But again you'll want to kind of get this concept of list duration because, and
you can study your data from your auto responders to see how often people
act or how quick they are to act or purchase versus kind of fade off into the NOTES
sunset. But you want to think about list duration and you want to be able to
bid appropriately, essentially bid higher for people that have just been on
your website say within the last seven days versus those that maybe
abandoned your website within say 30 days.
But the most powerful thing that you should understand now that you've
gotten those first two principles of building a list and then also list duration,
is what's called combining lists. And this is the real power to remarketing.
Combining lists allow you to take two different lists and form one new list.
So Ryan talked about, as an example, that he had one list of people that he
emailed out and then he was able to go back into AWeber and then just pick
up a new list of people that he had sent the email to but they had not
responded. That's essentially a second list right? Or it's a combined list
essentially.
So with remarketing let's say you sell products out of a shopping cart and
you want to retarget those people who added something to the cart but didn't
purchase. Or if you want to build more opt-ins you want to target people
who went to your opt-in page but didn't actually opt-in. So how do you do
that? So the power of combining lists is how you do that. Basically you
first create a list of everybody that added something to the cart, if you're an
e-commerce site, or that visited your opt-in page. Okay so that's the first
list.
And then the second list is those people who completed a purchase or those
people who actually opted-in. So in order to use the power of combining
lists you're able to, with Google remarketing take everybody that purchased
minus the number of people that visited the add to cart page and didn't
purchase and only be able to market to those people who added something
to the cart but did not purchase. Okay? Another example for those of you
that want to build opt-ins. You form a list of everybody that visited your
opt-in page. You subtract the people that visited the opt-in page and
converted, that gave you the opt-in, and so the net of that initial visits versus
visits that were completed means that you can market just to those people
who did not complete that action. Does that make sense? Okay, so that's
the power of combining lists.
Typically when people think of remarketing in its simplest form, basically

targeting people who have been to your website again I've just shown you
three of the most important examples - segmenting visitors with lists, list
duration and combining lists. It's important to understand two concepts.
The concept of money and messaging. So the first concept is purely
financial. If certain prospects are worth more to you than others and certain
prospects are worth less than you want to put them on different lists so that
you can bid differently for those. The people that are worth more money
you can bid higher on Google. The people that are worth less you can bid
less on Google to reach them.
The second one involves revolves around messaging. So with messaging

let's say, for example, I visit your website and you're selling say a
paraphernalia for Atlanta professional sports teams and you sell Atlanta NOTES
Braves paraphernalia and you've got someone that visited the Atlanta
Braves section of your website. So that's involving messaging. You want to
be able to then take those people that just visited the pages for Atlanta
Braves paraphernalia and then retarget them with a banner ad that features
Braves merchandise, get your Braves baseball cap here or jersey or
whatever. So that's involving messaging. Those two concepts. Bid
differently depending on what is most valuable to you and then make sure
that you're sending the right message to people.
Alright we're going to get into Use Cases now. As I mentioned earlier we'll
talk about examples for retail. Those of you that have products with
shopping carts where they can buy stuff online. Software as a service or
you can think of software as a service as perhaps if you have a membership
site that allows a free trial and then they pay for it and that type of thing.
And then also examples for lead generation.
According to Forrester Research 59% of users abandon than their online

shopping cart. According to Ryan Deiss it's 85%. So somewhere it's a very,
very big number. So as I mentioned earlier if you have a shopping cart
website where you're selling products online you want to use remarketing in
its very simplest form to target people who have added something to the cart
but not checked out. So that pretty much is your straight forward example
for retail.
Another example for retail if you have products that you sell with a
shopping cart is, let's say that they visited a particular category of
merchandise. So they looked just at DVD players as an example and you
can use retargeting basically and the concept of lists and the concept of
combining lists to just show them a banner about DVD players as an
example. So you don't have to do it for just one product. You can do it with
a category of products. So that's a retail example. Another retail example, I
have probably out of the 90 clients that we run campaigns for we have
probably 35 or 40 that are in retail and we're coming up on the busiest
season in retail. Some of my customers do as much business in the next say
60 days as they'll do all year. So they'll get an enormous amount of traffic
to their website over the Christmas holiday season and massive surge of
business and then everything goes to crap in January. It's pretty much
misery after that.
So you can extend the holiday season with retargeting by simply get people
who have either purchased stuff or people have added things to your cart or
people who have just visited your site and get them to come back in January
for some new offer, a second look, perhaps an extra discount or free
shipping or something like that. So you can use retargeting to extend the
holiday season.
I talked about software as a service or if you have anything that involves a

free trial that later turns into, you hope, into a paid subscription. So
basically you can use retargeting in a very powerful way. I would use the
power of combining lists. So let's say that you have a trial offer. The trial
expires in 14 days. So you give people free use of your software for 14 days NOTES
and then after 14 days you want them to pony up with a credit card or some
other way to convert and become a customer. That's typically with a credit
card.
So what you want to do is you want to build two lists. So everybody that
basically signs up for the trial, so that's one list. And then what you can do
is you can set two different timeframes on it. So you can have one list for
people that are zero to 14 days and then you can have another list essentially
for people that are in the say 12 to 14 day frame and then what you can do is
they joined your trial and day one, day two, day 11, day 12. All of a sudden
on day 12 when they're getting real close to the point when you want them
to buy and they haven't actually bought yet you can start peppering them
with banner ads on day 12, 13, 14, maybe 15 and 16. So you hit them right
when they're kind of at that point where they're going to pay you or not pay
you. So that's kind of the power of using time messages during a trial.
With lead generation I promised some examples with lead generation for
you here. Quite a few of you are doing lead generation and trying to get
people to opt-in and then buy through your long form sales letter or buy
through some sort of offer or multiple offers that you have over a long
period of time.
So this is kind of interesting. Let's say that you have people opt-in and you
send them a couple of emails and then at day seven you always make this
pretty, pretty amazing offer and you have a good take up rate through email
but as Ryan said kind of like the biggest open rate is maybe 25% in the
room. You've got 75% of the people that never opened your email. How
would you like to reach those 75%?
Well with retargeting what you can do is you can time the retargeting so that
your banner ads start to appear at the same time that that email goes out, to
those people. So your banner appears at day seven. That's exactly when
your email comes out as day seven. So if they've opened it they're only
getting reinforced by your banner ads because it's the same offer. And again
only the people that opted in are seeing those banner ads. You don't have to
worry about other people seeing those banner ads. Only the people that are
actually on this list because this is the way you control it. They're seeing
those banners. So the people that did open your email they're going to see
the banner. It's going to reinforce what the banner or what the email said
and the people,
75% of the people that did not open your email you can use a banner ad to
essentially entice them to click, go to your sales page and actually buy. So
that's a pretty powerful use of retargeting with email.
Another example, let's say that after day 30 in your AWeber response
sequence, your auto responder opt-in sequence or iContact probably a better
example, at day 30 you're going to invite them to a teleseminar. And that
teleseminar's very powerful. You make a lot of sales with it or some sort of
webinar at day 30. Whatever. You can use essentially your list and you can
say at day 30 or you could even say from day 28 to 33 I want to show all NOTES
these banners just to these people to get them on that teleseminar or to get
them on that webinar. So again you can use retargeting to sync up with
what your email is already doing in the whole auto responder deal.
Alright sort of an advanced strategy that you can use with retargeting,
Google lets you do interest category retargeting. So interest category
retargeting is a little different than what I've talked about. What I've talked
about initially is essentially building a list of people that come to your
website. What if you don't have a lot of traffic to your website? What if
you're not getting more than a few hundred people a week to your website?
You're not getting the thousands or tens of thousands that make this concept
really super worthwhile. You can use what's called interest category
retargeting and so based on what Google already knows about your
prospects and about their users to their various websites, basically millions
of visitors throughout the United States and probably over a billion
throughout the world, is that they visit certain sites on the internet. And
based on the sites that they visit you can then pick a category to target to just
to those people. So if you're selling something in the fitness realm you can
actually pick out people that have been to fitness related sites and just show
your ads to those people who have been to the fitness sites and so on. It's
only limited by the number of categories and sub categories that Google has
available.
So by remarketing to one of those interest categories you don't necessarily

have to rely on people to visit your own website. It's a lot better if you're
retargeting people who have already been to your website because they're
already familiar with you and your company. And they hopefully have done
things on your website like opt-in or make a purchase or add something to a
cart or whatever. Those are going to be a lot more valuable than these
people. But if you have a situation where you don't have a big enough
amount of traffic coming to your website yet you can use interest category
retargeting. And this will help you to essentially match your offer with
people who are likely to convert based on the sites that they've been on.
Now before I wrap up I want to talk about some privacy concerns revolving
around remarketing. It's very important to understand this. Just like Ryan
was talking earlier about the concept of having a terms of service link on
your website and also a privacy policy on your website. There have been a
lot of articles and new stories going around about how companies are doing
this evil behavioral targeting. And they almost position it kind of like
installing tracking software on your computer. This is far from the truth.
Any of you who know anything about websites and HTML know that this
works with cookies. It's not installing software on your computer or
whatever. But certainly when people read stories about this it makes them
feel a little bit anxious.
So if you're going to do retargeting on your website, whether you use

Google or whether you use some other service, you want to make sure you
update your privacy policy on your website to basically disclose to users
what you're doing. And you can Google it. There are example things that
you can use that explain this on the website. Google gives sort of a template NOTES
of words to say that disclose to people that you're using retargeting. And so
basically you want to have this in your privacy policy if you're using
remarketing. Google's term of service require it anyway. So it's a really
good thing to do.
Also the other thing that I needed to tell you about is that Google's
remarketing policies go a little bit further than that in that they don't allow
remarketing list based on sensitive information such as a financial status,
health, race, ethnic background or sexual orientation. So as an example, if
you have a site that provides information about say AIDS research or
something like that they're not going to allow you to use retargeting to show
banners to people that are potentially inflicted with that kind of disease.
And same with race or financial status. If you have some website that offers
advice about people going through bankruptcy they're not going to allow
you to use remarketing to remarket to those people who are kind of facing
bankruptcy.
So if you're running a dating site you're not going to be able to use

remarketing list to target Asians or Hispanics. And so that's kind of the full
disclosure of remarketing.
So if you're spending $5,000, $10,000 or more a month online advertising

and you're looking for an agency to do all this stuff for you, not just
remarketing but run your Google, your Yahoo, your MSN, your Facebook
and your You Tube ads that's basically what we do. Just Google ROI
Revolution. That's our website, logo in the upper corner. I'll be around for
about 15 minutes in the back of the room if you want to trade business
cards. We can do the remarketing for you for a paid service or you can hire
us to run your campaigns completely.
If you're just getting started with this buy Ryan Deiss' course and learn
everything you can about Google. And basically get started from there and
then when you get into some pretty serious money online come see me and
we're happy to help you take it to the next level. Alright. Thank you very
much everybody.

NOTES
With Bill Glazer
So six clever ways to build your herd offline to online. So this is now
building a herd by going offline to online. So I'm going to show you six
different ways to do this. Actually I'm going to show you five and Mike is
going to show you one.
But first let's talk about why you would want to build your herd from offline
to online. So why you would actually want to use offline to online to do it.
It was really interesting to hear Frank Kern talk about it that direct mail is
such an exciting thing for him. And this will sort of go over some of those
points.
First of all it's to be able to move prospects and customers from more
expansive snail mail to inexpensive email. So if you have snail mail lists
and you want to now be able to also market to them multiple ways with
email, which is very, very inexpensive, almost free then this is a very smart
thing to do. And diversity leads to stability. The more multiple ways that
you have to communicate with people, always the better response that you
will get.
The second one is to add another media to communicate with your

prospects. So once again it's get another media other than just offline. Now
you can use online as well.
The third is to keep your email list clean and update by snail mail mailing
them to go online and claim something, anything for them to opt-in for a
good email address. So a lot of people complain all the time that their email
list are not clean. There's a lot of undeliverability because the fact that there
aren't good emails, people change their emails all the time. On average
people, 20% on your list, 20% of your emails will be changed every year.
So this is a way to actually keep them clean.
So if you snail mail to them and we do this quite a bit at Glazer-Kennedy

and a lot of my clients do this, if you snail mail to your list and have them
go claim something online by entering their email address then you get a
chance to clean up your email lists when you're doing that. Now what I’m
actually doing is I like to two step that. I like to have them go online to
claim something with email and then take them right to a thank you page
and also offer to them at that time that we'll also mail you something, snail
mail you something. So I like to use it as a double whammy. First clean the
email list up and then move to them a second page where there's really
another nice other thing waiting for them that we have to snail mail to you
because now we get a chance to clean up our snail mail list at the same time.
Now I always do a two step because if they go to the first page and you're
asking them for email and snail mail on the first page you won't get as much

opt-ins as you will if you just there to ask them only for email only. Then I NOTES
move it to the second step for snail mail update.
To be able to tap into JV and affiliate relationships where people only have
snail mail list. So a lot of folks don't have email lists. As much as
everybody probably finds that impossible to believe and a lot of associations
are very guilty of this and big corporations and things along those lines.
They have a lot more snail mail addresses than they have email addresses.
Who in the room here, by the way, has more snail mail addresses on your
list than email addresses? I mean just look around the room. It's very, very
common that that happens. So this is a way to tap into other people's list, to
mail to them, snail mail to them to get them to then respond by going online
to opt-in to your thing and now you are using that as a list building strategy.
And the last one is to be able to purchase snail mail list to grow your herd.
And I'm going to show you the example of that. I think the very first one
I’ll show you and this is actually a guy right now that has just walked into a
brand new market that he has never been into before, which is the real estate
market. Now there's plenty of people in the real estate market but this
person wasn't in the real estate market and he actually purchased lists and he
snail mailed to the list to get them to go online to opt-in and to get their
email addresses. And with doing that he just built one of the most vibrant
responsive list in that new niche right now. More responsive than a lot of
people that have been in that niche for years and years and years and years
and years.
Now why is, let me just make sure I explain to you why that's so valuable to
think in that terms because if you go out and you buy lists you usually have
restrictions to how many times you can use them. Sometimes you can buy a
list for unrestricted use but you're paying the highest amount for that list as
you will pay for any list. A lot of times when you buy a list you get a
onetime use. You get sometimes a two time use. Occasionally you get a
restrictive use. A lot of times they won't even sell to you on an unrestrictive
basis.
But once you now move them to email and capture the email address that's
now your email address and you can use that as many as times as you want.
Okay so this is the first clever way. This is the gentleman I was talking
about. I first met Michael Kimble about a dozen years ago and at that time
he was in the business opportunity business. Since that time he went along
and he was selling things that were health related industry. And now he's
moved into the real estate investing industry and what he does is he goes out
and buys responsive lists, buys responsive lists of folks that people have
known to respond to offers before that best match what he is selling. He
creates a postcard. This is the front and back of the postcard that he creates
and mails them out to that list. And he sends them online right here, just
sends them online to sign up, which is what Ryan was talking about was a
squeeze page before.

It's a very, very smart strategy as far as just buying responsive list and then NOTES
moving them online, sending out mail to them with as good a offer as you
possibly can make to them where they have to now get that. Receive your
offer online. So it's basically being used as a list building strategy.
Here's another one, same thing, Big Ass Fans. Who have ever heard of,
how many of you guys have heard of Big Ass Fans? Very, very innovative
company. They actually sort of reinvented themselves in large part by
renaming themselves. I don't know what their old name was but once they
came out with this Big Ass Fans name, which is probably they hired Frank
Kern to help them with coming up with the name. And it really got a lot of
attention. And this is actually a piece I think I received in my office.
I think I received it. And it was telling me that they mail this out to me and
they were going to send me this free cap. And then just told me to go online
and to get my free cap and to pick out which color I wanted to get. And I
think I could either get black or white cap. I would go online and pick out
which color I would want, which by the way is an interesting strategy
because typically speaking it's now just sort of teaching a little bit of direct
response techniques by giving somebody a choice of what they are getting is
an involvement device.
So now you're thinking moves from do I want a cap to which color cap do I
want? It always gives you a higher response by giving people a choice. So
I went online and I filled the thing out and picked out my color cap that I
wanted, which was black. And this was what they sent me, which was a
camouflage cap. I didn't get my black cap but they sent this out to me along
with the outside of the, this was stuffed inside their envelope, the cap and all
kinds of information about Big Ass Fans, which by the way to be honest
with you I have no need at all for fans in my world but I am now on their list
and I am always getting their information, which is another strategy in and
of itself, which is if you want to see what smart marketers are doing get on
their lists. Go to opt-in. Just get on their lists.
If you have no reason at all to want to buy anything from them just get on
their lists and now you become on their prospect list and you see all the
smart things they can do because you can now take what they're doing and
you can do this thing, which people call, I never heard of it before until
yesterday, it's called S&Ding it. S&D marketing. So you can swipe and
deploy it for your own industry.
Here's clever way number two. This is kind of an interesting one. Brick
and mortar businesses are getting very clever about this. This happens to be
one Dunkin Donuts. You go to Dunkin Donuts and before you leave they
tell you will get a free donut just by going online and sort of filling out a
survey. So just go online and fill out a survey and you will get a free donut.
And as soon as you fill out the survey you will immediately be taken to a
page that you can print out and take it into your Dunkin Donut place and get
a free donut.

What are they doing? It's his list building. When's the last time anybody NOTES
here ever went into a Dunkin Donuts and before they left the person there
asked for their contact information? They don't do that. They don't ask you
for your email address. They don't ask you for your name and address. You
probably won't go back because all you want to do is get coffee and a donut.
But this is a smart strategy in a lot of businesses where there is face-to-face
involvement. People come to your business and where they actually will go
now to go claim something as they're leaving. So it really works best, this
kind of strategy really works best with a high amount of volume and low
transaction business. Because if you're dealing with a high transaction
business and not real high volume you really should be able to interact with
people and get all that information before they leave.
The best way to get the information is before the person leaves but if you're
dealing with something where there's a lot of traffic and you don't have time
to be asking them for the information and this is a very smart strategy to be
using in order to get people to go online, get something for free and then
now you're building a list out of it.
Just think about Dunkin Donuts for a second. Imagine all the, I don't know
how many Dunkin Donuts outlets there are but they're like a gazillion of
them and a gazillion's a real number by the way. I looked it up. And there's
a gazillion of them. And with all the gazillion of them think about how
many people come in and buy donuts on a daily basis. So that's like a multi-
gazillion, which is another real number. And so now even if a fraction of
these people, 10% of them, which is 1/10th of a multi-gazillion, that's
another real number, they go in and they put in their email addresses that's a
big list. Now Dunkin Donuts has to market to. And by the way, not only
can they invite people back for their stuff and make announcements to
people of new products, offerings that they create but they can also use that
list for other people's stuff to market to. They can actually use that list,
become of an affiliate of other folks. So it's a very smart strategy when
you're dealing with those types of businesses.
Number three, demonstration and curiosity. This is really neat. This is one
of my favorite things. I'm actually going to give you a resource, if you ever
want to do something like this. I have no involvement with this company.
I've never even spoken to this guy. But this guy's name is Steve Tingaris
and he created this company. He actually uses this to promote his own
company although he does what he uses to promote his own company to
help other people promote their company. I got this in the mail. This came
to my office. You can see that the name on there is Edward Personette, Jr.,
which by the way is an interesting in and of itself because there is no
Edward Personette, Jr. in my office. There is no Edward Personette, Jr.
anywhere.
What I do is when I go opt-in to other people's stuff I make up some phony

names and I want to see how people are selling my name to other folks.
Evidently this guy Steve Tingaris he went and bought a list of people that
met a criteria where he would be able to serve them, what he offers to them,
which you'll see in just a second. So I just always use this in a way.
Anybody ever opt-in to stuff and not use their real names? Yeah we all do. NOTES
And you probably opt-in to my stuff and not use your emails. And I'm
pretty upset about that. But anyway so this thing right here is a direct mail
piece.
And on the other side of this, the other side if you flip this over, you know
what's on the other side? Is my website is on the other side of this. So the
other side of this piece is my website. So when you receive this in the mail
and you see your website on the other side of this it gets your curiosity is
why is somebody mailing me something with my website on it? So people
could be using this for anything.
Like for example, people that are real estate agents, if they want to, let's say
they're in the commercial real estate business. They want to go send out
pictures of all the commercial real estate they would like to list. They could
send out pictures of people's buildings to the owners of those buildings. If
people in the residential real estate agent if they want to send out pictures of
houses in areas that they want to sell they could send out pictures of houses.
So it has a very high application.
And then inside this piece, so that was the outside front and back. Inside this
piece there was this special message to Edward from Steve Tingaris, which
basically said, "All you have to do is go to this website and enter this special
code number and I have a special message that's waiting for you." And it was
a very generic thing. So although it felt like, it was personalized, it was to
Edward from Steve. But it was a generic message that says, "I found some
things when I went to your website that I could really teach you how you can
do much, much better with the response that you're getting on your website.
Just go there and enter this special pass code." By the way I gave you his
name of his company. I gave it as a resource. Again I've never met the man
but it's ProspectsSmarter.Inc and his email address, I actually gave you his
email address so you should opt-in to all your list, his email address. So you
bug the hell out of him. So there's his email address on there as well.
And then once you go online you opt-in and so first you go to this thing here
where it says, "Enter your code." So you enter your code and you hit submit
and then it takes you to this message from Steve. That's actually Steve. So
I've never met him but I assume that's what he looks like. And Steve is
holding this card in his hand and he's kind of makes it feel like it's your card
but his hand is kind of covering it up so you don't even realize it's not your
card, just a generic one and it's a whole message on there. You enter your
email address, your date and also whatever else you put in there and it
actually now is a way for him to generically deliver you a message that, "Hi
there. I came to your website and I saw 17 things that you could actually be
using to improve the conversion of your website. And give me a call. I'd
love to chat with or if not just enter your name and email address and all this
other stuff and I'll follow-up with you.
So this is a very clever list building strategy that you could use that's highly
personalized where somebody feels as though that this person is speaking to
you. There's no better results that you can get at all is the result where NOTES
somebody is actually, you get the feeling of hey this person's talking directly
to me.
Clever way number four is books. Very clever way to grow your list. So
books. So putting into your books throughout your books, put into all your
books different response mechanisms where they now have to come online
and get your thing. In my book, Outrageous Advertising That's
Outrageously Successful , which I know everybody in the room owns and if
you don't don't tell me because I'll have a sleepless night if you don't. But in
my book there's 108 calls to action in that book, 108 CTAs in that book all
sending them online to go claim something. This is all about list building.
So a book is a very, very clever way in order to grow your list.
Then we go to my favorite current way, which is use of PURLs. PURLs are

personal URLs and it's a personalized website URL that is customized to the
person's visiting the website and you'll see a PURL in just a second. It's a
direct mail recipient logs onto the PURL. And I'll show it to you in a
second. So this is sending out direct mail where there's a PURL on there,
which is a URL, personalized URL that people go to with usually their name
in it. It's getting the best response currently of anything I know with direct
mail. And the more that your customers believe that the communication is
especially for them to hire the response. So that way when you send out a
PURL with the person's name is in it there's a belief that this is a message
that's designed exactly for them. And this allows you to move a prospect or
customer from a relatively cheap offline media. Most people that are using
PURLs are using 4x6" postcards. That's the cheapest direct mail that you
can use where you're limiting the space of your message.
So a 4x6 postcard, you don't have a lot of space but then you can take it to
the web. On the web you own everything. So on the web your message can
be as long as you want it to be. It can be a 16-minute video sales letter. It
could be a 20-page printed text sales letter on the web. It could be as long
as you want it to be. So this is taking cheap media and moving it to very,
very cheap media but on the very, very cheap media, which is the web, you
now own all this space on there. You can deliver as long a message as you
possibly want.
So this for example is one that we got, the piece that I got from this guy
Aaron Scott and he was selling stuff for Thunderbird enthusiasts,
Thunderbird car enthusiasts. Now I can't even say enthusiasts. So
Thunderbird fans. And on there there's actually a website on there that's
called Bill.ThunderbirdConceptsVIP2Site.com and when you got online and
it says, "Hi Bill," at the top. So it's personalized to me when you go online.
It took me to this page where it said, "Bill would you like a free T-Bird
driving jacket? I have a few to give away." And then it just moved me
along the process about getting me involved with actually to his site and
spending, I forgot what it was, I think about $200 or more and then I got this
free jacket that I got along with it.

Here's another one for Rory Fatt. And with Rory Fatt same thing that he NOTES
used for marketing his information marketing business where he says, "Go
to BarbieMathison.RestaurantsStimulus.com. Now this was a whole
marketing piece about the economy and about stimulating the economy and
then when you go there, when you put in Barbie Mathison this is what you
see. The website is, "Barbie Mathison here's a free restaurant tax relief
opportunity for Roz Confederation Inn," which is the name of the company,
"Worth $26,587.64." And if you scroll down there's actually a check on
there. I can't scroll down now but there's a check on there made out to
Barbie Mathison. So the check on there was actually made out to Barbie as
well. So this is a way to take this personal URL with people's names in
them and then move them online and the curiosity gets a lot more people to
actually take you online.
This is one from the McClung Companies. This is actually a company that
actually will do PURLs for you if you're looking for a resource to do
PURLs. And a lot of people now are offering PURLs. The same thing here.
In there it says, "Bill Glazer13.McClungTraining.info." And it took me
online where I would fill out my information in order to get training. So
again all this PURL stuff seems to get a much, much better response. We're
finding that in most cases that we're getting well over 30% of the people that
we're sending direct mail to by using PURLs are actually going on our
websites and opting in to our websites.
So before I bring up Mike up here on strategy number six I want to give you
a couple PURLs tips and some of these, by the way, are thanks to Mike
Capuzzi. So some of these PURLs tips are tips that I've learned and some of
them are things that he's actually shared in one of our recent Mastermind
meetings. So I just sort of gave you an entire synapses of it.
First of all format affects response. So like we'll have a fair, better and best.
The fair one is BusinessGrowth.com/TomSmith. So that has the name at the
back end. Better one is put Tom.SmithBusinessGrowth.com where you put
the name in the front. The front always gets you a better response. And the
best one is Tom.Smith.BusinessGrowthSecret.com where the URL actually
suggests curiosity that you're going to learn a secret. So there's the three
different formats that people use in PURLs.
And the last one is the smartest way to use them. The second one is the
more curiosity in the mailing the better. Many of you have probably seen
my rusty old typewriter PURL that I've used and since that time so many
people have copied me. And this is about, it's a postcard that comes from
my rusty old typewriter and it basically just says, "Hey I've got this special
secret for you. And just go to this website that I built exactly…I built this
website for you. And please go there so I can share it with you." No
revealment of all what my secret is. No revealment at all what I'm even
talking about. It's just getting them online. And so the more curiosity that
you have the better the results and response that you get.
Place the PURL on both sides of the postcard. This one I actually learned
from Mike, thank you very much, which I've never done before. And it's
crazy because I've been teaching postcard marketing for years and I never NOTES
sort of figured this out, which I always teach everybody put your offer and
your deadline on both sides of your postcard. That's a format I've been
teaching for years. It never occurred to me to put the PURL on both sides
because when you get a postcard in the mail you don't know what side
you're looking at first. So always put it on both sides.
The last one is have the PURL the largest and boldest part of the mailing.
So you want the PURL to be the biggest font on that thing and the boldest
thing. And a lot of times if you just highlight it, even make it stick out
you'll get a much, much better response. So there's some PURLs tips for
you. I like this one, in campaigns follow-up with PURLs and emails. So
whenever I do direct mail, when you create a PURL you can also include
your PURLs in your email campaigns as a follow-up and you will always
get a big boost in response. And the cool thing about using PURLs as
emails is that the PURL is a live link in the email so they can just click on it
and it'll take them right to the site where they actually go to. So I always
like using emails as follow-up to the snail mail if I have their email address.
So those are five clever ways but now I'm going to bring up Mike and I
know I'm talking pretty fast but we got to mind our clock. So some super
PURLs. So he's now created this thing. I called it Super PURLs. So Mike
come on up here. So the inventor of Copy Doodles and the new thing Super
PURL. Are you calling it Super PURLs? That's my name for it. I had that
name trademarked now.

NOTES
With Mike Capuzzi
Mike: Well thank you Bill. So real quick. Is that on there? So I want to
just, my eight year old challenged me to this. My kids came down yesterday
from Philly and she left me this note, which I just found while I was sitting
back there. And it says, "I love you. Nicole to Dad." And I'm sitting back
there thinking hey I've got to figure out a way to show this and what Bill
was just talking, you can go back to the Power Point, what Bill was just
talking about, which is really the underlying strategy as we show these.
My daughter sent me a note and the emotional connection she made there
that is what you guys want to do in your marketing. Now we don't try to
talk about that but if you heard Bill he constantly kept saying
personalization, personalizing your marketing. We've heard that several
times these past few days. To me that is one of the key strategies. How can
you personalize your marketing to create the emotional connection? In this
case my eight year old did but how can you do that with your prospects and
clients, customers and such.
So let's see here. I've got 10 minutes, 9 minutes. All I'm going to do is
show some really cool examples. These are all real world examples and
some of these are mine and some of them are some clients. But here's an
example. This is all offline to online and this is using a, the other thing
you've heard, which I thought was really cool, you heard Dan talk about it.
You heard Bill. I think you heard Frank. Using comics and cartoons. I
think that is a huge opportunity for everybody. Nobody's doing it and I use
them all the time. And this was a postcard I did for a workshop I held last
year. I was reading a John Caples book. He talked about in the 20th
Century how comics were a great strategy. Within a week I took that, what
I read in his book, created this postcard and you can see, if I can pull it out
here, you can see we had a personalized throughout it. You can see the
PURL here, PURL on both sides.
The mistake I made there was that PURL should've been a bit bigger
because it really should be, it should pass the arm length test. But there's an
example of a cool comic. Two strategies, comics and PURLs to generate
response for a workshop. Alright, so when they visited the PURL from that
postcard they went to a, we took them online to an invitation page. And
again we personalized the copy. Very simple. Most pages do that but this
technology that I developed for myself, okay, just like Copy Doodles. Copy
Doodles was developed for myself and my clients. This was for the
workshop. So we took it a step further and we personalized the comic with
the person's name in the caption, right, you heard about captions earlier,
how that's the second most read thing. Well how important or how cool the
strategy is it to have see the person's name in the caption. We gave them a
gift certificate. We personalized the guarantee certificate. This is all online
now, right? There's another cartoon with another personalized caption. So
that's from that postcard to the sales letter.
I know some of you go this because I just sent it out and some of you came NOTES
up and told me you got it. This was a Halloween mailing we just did. Now
this was a down and dirty, sent it to a pretty big list. 4x6 postcard, just like
Bill talked about. Again had a little bit of fun with, in this case a caricature.
Copy Doodles pointing to the PURL, another smart strategy. But there you
see using a cheap inexpensive postcard to drive people online and here's the
Halloween offer we just did. And again I walk the walk. I'm consistent.
Here's a year later. I'm still using personalized comics. We gave them a
spooktacular savings certificate.
Now this is what's cool about our system. The difference you're seeing here
and I really, I even hesitate to call it a PURL system because really it's a
personalized marketing system. We are using the technology we've
developed for Copy Doodles to personalize graphics. So you see a gift
certificate personalized. You don't see it here but we actually put Copy
Doodles. So I see Sherman back there. I could say, "Hey Sherman check
this thing out." All in Copy Doodles and handwriting on a website.
This is James Malinchak just used our system. So some of you might've
gotten this one. Again, inexpensive 4x6 postcard, Copy Doodles pointing
to the PURL. PURL on both sides and what he was doing was using a
personalized gift certificate. Again anytime you can personalize it response
will go up. If you have a good offer and you can personalize it you're going
to get a bump in response. So you can see James. I love what he did with
that photo there with our technology. Seat saved for Mike. Alright? So
seat saved Charlie. When you went to that page it really personalized the
experience and you see the Copy Doodles up here, the handwriting
personalized.
This was a flyer. Now an auto repair shop owner, a flyer sitting on his
counter in his auto repair shop telling people to go to a website where they
can now opt-in. So this was cold traffic. We don't have their information
telling them they can sign up and save and as soon as they sign up and save
they're immediately taken to a personalized offer relative to tuning up your
car. In this case a vacation offer. So again you can see the same thing –
Doodles, personalizing the gift certificate, personalizing a map.
Now what's really cool about our technology is when the person visits this
and we tell them if you read that copy it tells them to click on it. When they
click on it it creates a personalized PDF. This system is perfect for bricks
and mortar business owners to drive people into a bricks and mortar
location. So we're going off to the online, excuse me, offline to online into
the store. Is that cool? And the idea is to personalize that thing because we
know if I'm personalizing this for somebody the likelihood of them using it
and bringing it into the store, in this case a shop owner, is higher. Okay?
And that's the form thing was a printout. This is a sales letter. So we've
shown postcards. Obviously another offline method is letters. So here's a
letter. Again PURLs throughout it. We have a little bit more real estate so
we could put the PURL in there a couple more times. Again we love using
Copy Doodles to point out. And again you can see these are real examples
of real bricks and mortar business owners using this technology to bring NOTES
them in.
I see Dan Cricks back there. So it's Dan, some of your guys, right. There
you go. So again we created some personalized cartoons, certificates.
So what we have here, and Bill calls it super PURLs. What we call it is a
personalized relationship marketing system. This is the next thing. Again,
I've developed in my own business. I've been using PURL since 2004, by
the way. I would've called it a personalized marketing system but PMS did
not sound like a good acronym. So it's a PRMS, which you gave me. That's
why we called it PRMS. And what it is here's who this is for, this is, well
let me tell you what it is and then tell you who's it for.
It allows you to collect prospect leads, people you don't know but you want
to opt them in a different way for a different offer. It allows you to offer
valuable and personalized, what I call invitations. It allows you to record on
it obviously and it's fast and easy to use.
Now who we created this for, it's pretty unique. This is for information
marketers initially, because I'm not doing a pitch here but I'd love to talk if
you're interested, if you fit this bill I'd like to talk to you. Lauren's back,
Lauren raise your hand back there. So Lauren's back there. If this is you
please see Lauren. I'll be back there in a second. If you're an information
marketer who's in the done-for-you business or you want to be in a done-
for-you business or if you want to put a new sort of cage around your clients
and customers increasing the pain of disconnect or you want to kind of use
the latest and greatest technology out there please talk to me. We are fully
integrated with InfusionSoft. As far as I know we're the only, these guys
reiterate because I was talking to them while I was here, we're the only
PURL system that's integrated with InfusionSoft that does what we do.
So we're tagging people along the way if you're InfusionSoft. And now we
can follow-up. Hey if they clicked on the certificate we can have a special
follow-up sequence based on that. If they only visited this site but didn't
click on this, so you get that. So if you're an InfusionSoft user and you're an
info marketer doing done-for-you because what we're going to do we are
basically allowing info marketers to white label our software. You'll have
your own PURL system, not us. It's not us. We're giving you the system
which you in turn can use for your customers and clients. Does that make
sense?
The only other market I see that I'd like to go after with this are event
promoters. So you saw Malinchak use it. Actually you used it last year.
People doing events. So if you're doing events and you want to another way
of inviting people to your big events this system can work for that.

I hope you enjoyed the SuperStar faculty of 7-Figure Business Builders spilling their guts on the best
strategies for acquiring and developing a Hyper-Responsive List. But remember, this is not JUST about
list-building. It’s about building the “right” list…
It’s about building the most targeted list possible full of the right types of people and then properly caring
for the list to create a strong bond and relationship with the list.
That’s the part most people miss. This is NOT about finding prospects, sucking as much money out of
them as quickly as possible, and then moving on the next one. That’s what amateurs do…people that
don’t “get it.”
This is about creating MAXIMUM long-term value. It’s about creating a hyper-responsive list that’s
eager to buy more and more from you over time so you don’t have to be constantly scrambling to find
your next “mark” like a con artist…
If this is your first time listening, I recommend you go back and give it a second listen. A deep
understanding of building a list and developing a strong relationship with that list is critical to creating a
strong, sustainable, profitable business. It’s that important.
Remember, Dan shares his profitable insights monthly in the famous No BS Marketing Letter – the
largest and most read publication of its kind. He also shares specific information on marketing to the
affluent – those least and last affected by the roller coaster economy and least likely to make buying
decisions based on price – in his monthly Marketing to the Affluent newsletter.
If you’re not already receiving these monthly newsletters, you’re invited to take a FREE Test-Drive of
Glazer-Kennedy’s elite GOLD Membership. To claim $633.91 worth of pure moneymaking information
including 2 issues of the No BS Marketing Letter, visit DanKennedy.com. You’ll also have the
opportunity to upgrade your FREE Trial Membership to receive the Marketing to the Affluent Letter.
For information on more business and wealth building resources from Dan, visit the Internet’s only
official source for the latest news and information about upcoming events and resources at
DanKennedy.com.

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Copyright © 2011 by Glazer-Kennedy Insider’s CircleTM, LLC, All Rights Reserved.

Frank Kern Pages 17-33

Ryan Deiss Pages 34-70

Timothy Seward Pages 71-80

Bill Glazer Pages 81- 88

Mike Capozzi Pages 89- 91

And now here’s Dan…

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

So one is affinity, a sense of belonging and pride of attachment. So if you

There is a big bar in Phoenix that is a Cleveland Browns/Pittsburgh

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

I think I showed this in a newsletter. This is a guy, this is his Dan

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

There's a thing when you hire entertainers, like for infomercials or

Home Shopping, QVC and Home Shopping Network entirely revolves

Ed McMahon had a much higher approachability index than did Johnny

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

Another relationship factor, philosophy. They attach or fail to attach to a

It needs to be interwoven and reflect in everything that you do. So I have

So there's a philosophical component to this. Do you have one? Do they

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

Now for a mechanical nature frequency is very important. So looping

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

So constancy is really about institutionalized, standardized, things

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

The multi-level industry is always kind of done it. So depending on which

Next, presence in their everyday lives. So I call this omnipresence that

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

Finally, dependency. Dependency when you can make it occur is better

Craig Proctor is very good at it with the realtors because he controlled

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

The next closest thing to it is true emotional dependency. So if they do not

Now let's talk tactical for a couple of minutes. So tactical implementation

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

So what's new? Tactical implementation. No matter how well what you

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

Motivation. A lot of people under do this. The vast majority of your

There's a reason. So today is Sunday in the NFL and a bunch of veteran,

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

Subjective measurements, fan mail and personal correspondence. Are

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

So Craig Proctor paying to be here. Craig said to me before he came, he

So chatter online, offline and in person. Those are subjective

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

HERD BUILDING FORMULAS

Frank: Hey everybody. How's it going? What am I supposed to talk about

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

So when you're doing that the result of your information has to be of

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

So finally after talking to plumber number three, 35,000 or something, I had

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

So anyway easily afford.

So let's go back to plumbers right? So they're like, "Awe we make $500

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

So this is directly attributable to us specifically as information marketers

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

So now we have, we're attracting people who immediately recognize, no

© 2011/Glazer-Kennedy Insider’s Circle 22

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS

In the launch of that product I generated 80,000, 80 something thousand, it

HERD BUILDING DAY FORMULAS