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Sydni Burge

Professor Gardiakos

ENC1102

7 April 2023

The Indie Music Complex: How does the Way People Discuss and Critique Popular Music Differ from the

Way they Discuss and Critique Music they Perceive as “Underground”?

[this is mostly a skeleton plan that needs to be properly put together, I apologize!!]

Introduction

Music is, and has been for thousands of years, an integral part of human culture. It is non-

negotiable that, music is a universally defining characteristic of culture. Thus, conversations

surrounding music are a frequent tool used to connect ourselves to those around us. I thoroughly

believe the language people use to discuss popular music vastly differs from the language people

use to discuss music they believe they “discovered” themself. In this text, I will be focusing on

culture and music in the United States of America, as it is the culture and music I am most

familiar with and can do the most thorough research on. There is a deep sense of hyper-

individuality that is often praised in American culture, and I believe this creates the idea that an

individual can be “better” than someone else simply because their taste in music is more unique.

I have a hypothesis that, particularly in online forums, people are more likely to praise music

they champion themselves for uncovering, and oppositely, they are more likely to use bold and

harsh language when critiquing something they think a bigger demographic of people are

familiar with. In the research synthesis section of this research paper, I aim to explore the ways

that hyper-individualism and internalized misogyny in the United States of America can change
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the way people discuss music. Additionally, I conducted primary research on both Reddit forums

curated toward discussing music and long-form content on YouTube, and will be discussing, in

the Methods section, how my findings here connect to hypotheses proposed and secondary

research conducted in the Research Synthesis section.

Research Synthesis

Hyper-individualist culture in the United States of America

Cultural norm in The United States highly emphasizes the idea of being completely self-

sustained, we are meant to move out at 18, and we are praised when we work multiple jobs to

put ourselves through college and pay our rent, so why wouldn’t we want to develop taste that is

hyper-individualistic as well. In this section, I would like to contemplate this question: “Does

our population, as a whole, feel more isolated than others? How does that affect our psyche, and

the way we interact with popular culture?”

Before I present the data I am analyzing, It should be made clear, that when

referring to American culture, I am referring to the dominant culture in the United States. Culture

in non- mainland states such as Hawai’i and Alaska, and territories such as Puerto Rico and

Guam are generally outliers in this sense.

[B. studies, analysis] Based on data collected, The claim that the American population is

highly individualistic by virtue is heavily supported. Takeshi Hamamura brings up many

insightful points about the link between individualism and the Modernization Theory in his

article “Are Cultures Becoming Individualistic? A Cross-Temporal Comparison of

Individualism–Collectivism in the United States and Japan”, The modernization theory states

that individualism is a direct cause of modernization, as modernization is the cause of stratified

socioeconomic status (SES), and SES leads to a rise of individualism in the culture of a society.
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(Hamamura, 5). Essentially, individuals of a higher SES are more likely to crave a sense of

uniqueness that is linear to propelling their status. Though American culture is not a monolith, it

is clear that (especially when the subject being studied is of a white, Anglo-Saxon background)

being an individual with high SES is a value held high in American society. Collectivism,

oppositely, among individuals of a non-American background, does not correlate with an

inherent need for uniqueness. Additionally, places with a higher Collectivism Index have lower

SES per capita (Vandello and Cohen, 284-287). So, if a sense of cultural hyper-individualism

correlates positively with socioeconomic success, it is clear why it is an ideal most American

citizens chase so closely.

It is also important to note the ideal of “freedom” upheld so intensely in American culture

is also a pillar of individualism. The very ideas are so intertwined, making it clear why

individualist culture is so engrained in the United States. Richard M. Ryan found it was difficult

to differentiate between autonomy and individualism when discussing self-determination theory

[explain sdt in a footnote]. If the idea of individualism being so equivalent to autonomy adds

insight to the American psyche, it is a very human desire to be fully autonomous, thus, when we

equate this to individualism, we believe that to be autonomous is to be unique.

This concept, in and of itself, Is also nothing new. Music has always been an avenue for

escapism and to express one’s uniqueness and a counter-culturalist identity. Progressive rock

fans in the 1970s even began to turn sour to their favorite bands when they believe it is no longer

a unique interest. It is human nature to want to be interesting, and oftentimes, enjoying the most

popular thing is something we view as inherently nonspecial.

- Countries with a greater presence of individualism in their culture have lower rates of

behavioral self-control.
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[C. Theoretical frameworks for analyzing semantics in casual settings]

[D. Gaps in the studies (opt.)]

Considering American culture has such individualistic ideals, Americans that uphold

these ideals are more likely to heavily critique what they perceive as popular, and praise interests

they believe they developed on their own.

[Lead Into next sect.]

“I’m not like other girls: I don’t like Taylor Swift,”

[A. Overview] This portion of my paper will be dedicated to observations of how people

perceive music that is made by women, or primarily enjoyed by teenage girls. I have a

hypothesis that, when breaking down psychoanalytical research on the ways music in primarily

female spaces is received, I will be able to find a link between female hatred for music enjoyed

by women and a culturally imposed “need” to be differentiated from other women. In essence,

the hyper-individualist desire to feel special. Utilizing secondary research, I will be answering

the following questions “Why do we (American women) care?”, and “Does it all come down to

other’s perception of us, and thus, our perception of ourselves?”, “Do women believe they are

only good enough, if they are different from other women?” and, lastly “How does this tie back

to hyper-individualism in America?”.

The deep-rooted institution of misogyny greatly impacts the way we interact with music

created by or primarily enjoyed by women.

- [Galliher and Dehlin:

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o If religious fundamentalism is so deeply engrained in the brains of young women,

prevalence of gender roles in the fundamentalist framework creates deep

internalized misogyny

o Create a throughline from Galliher and Dehlin’s point about women holding

misogyny deep in their identity due to their upbringing to Einhorn’s points about

torch-passing]

- [Einhorn:

o Include her quotes on the invisible women and generational torch-passing

o Consider adding the art Einhorn explains in the article

o Generational fear of (and thus, compliance to) men and the patriarchy]

- [Sarah Baker:

o Makes compelling arguments about young girls creating the demand for popular

music. Young girls interacting with music helps them form a cultural identity

o American Women are taught from a young age that that which is feminine is

equivalent to that which is weak. Young girls create popular fan culture, so if pop

culture can be equated to femininity and femininity can be equated to weakness,

enjoying popular culture becomes a negative attribute.

o ^if you enjoy something perceived as feminine, how could you get men to respect

you?]

- [Diane Pecknold:

o Policing women’s voices in intellectual musical conversation

o Connect Baker to Pecknold- the idea that femininity is equivalent to weakness

creates the idea that women cannot contribute anything intellectual to

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conversations concerning music critique. Also creates the idea that women cannot

create music that is integral or worth note to the music industry]

- [Separately from the four above, Sam De Boise:

o To answer the secondary question “Does misogyny also change the way men

interact with popular culture”, explore De Boise’s claims on discussion of music

in misogynistic forums online and use this as a throughline from this portion of

the research paper to the reddit section]

[C. Theoretical frameworks for analyzing semantics in casual settings]

[D. Gaps in studies (opt.)]

Women have a deeply engrained and highly individualistic idea that to be worthy of an

autonomous existence, they must differentiate themselves from other women by any means

possible. Thus, women will interact with popular culture with the underlying nuance of

generationally passed down internalized misogyny.

Methods

r/MyMusicIsBetterThanYours

[A. Research Design and Approach] My primary research is really honed in on the way

music is discussed and critiqued in a casual setting. The nature of Reddit, its highly specific chat

forums and vast userbase, makes it the perfect place to study conversations about music. For

multiple days, I dove into subreddits r/rap, r/Music, r/indiemusic, r/hiphop101 and r/fantanofor-

ever, looked into posts I found could incite criticism, or ones that flatly encouraged it and took

notes on the language of the users replying.

Reception of Ice Spice on Reddit:

- “only famous because she’s attractive” [quote reddit user]

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- Refusal to acknowledge female success beyond physical attributes (bring in a source

from second Research Synthesis section)

- Equating women to sex objects, unable to recognize attributes existing outside of the

male gaze

- Does not appeal to individualism

Drake, Snoop Dogg, Justin Bieber

- Overrated

- American refusal to embrace that which can be seen as a conformist interest

- Everybody knows of them and thus enjoying them is not unique

Yung Gravy and Jack Harlow

- Both primarily enjoyed by young women [on TikTok]

- “corny”

- Does not appeal to individualism

Taylor Swift

- Though consistently praised for songwriting by professional music critics, she tends to

face intense criticism online. She is hitting the female musician glass ceiling [elaborate]

- Also “corny”

- Equating women to sex objects, unable to recognize attributes existing outside of the

male gaze

- Does not appeal to individualism

Fig. 1. [pie chart]

[C. Data Analysis Techniques]

[D. Results]
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[clever title] YouTube long-form video section

[A. Research Design/Approach]

[B. Data Collection/Sampling]

[C. Data Analysis Techniques]

[D. Results]

[research Billie Eilish reviews from before her widespread popularity and compare them

to reviews after her widespread popularity, both can be linked to hypotheses about individualism

and misogyny]

Discussion/Implications

Start here lol

[I have not finished my primary research and thus have not started this section sry]