Session 1 - Busbar Protection Systems and Device Selection

Expert Workshop Q&A
Session 1: Busbar protection

systems and device selection
December 13, 2022
Contact: Rainer Goblirsch

rainer.goblirsch@siemens.com
Unrestricted | © Siemens 2023 |

1
Webinar Q&A
Session 1: Busbar protection systems and device selection
1. Q: If I have more than 20 bays I need to central unit and how the two central
unit will linked
A: The centralized 7SS85 is limited to a maximum of 20 CTs. / bays. With the
distributed 7SS85 up to 48 CTs / bays are supported. If the substation is beyond these
limits a sectionalizing coupler is necessary to split into two systems. The
sectionalizing coupler becomes a feeder at each busbar protection system. More
details will be discussed in session 3 of our tutorial series.
2. Q: Is it possible to configure two voltage level (400kv and 132kv)in the single
7ss85 central unit? so, the single central unit will protect our both 400kv and
132kv busbars at same time.
A: It is possible in principle, but not recommended. The bus zones of the different
voltage levels must be considered completely independant, with seperate CTs at each
side of the transformator.
3. Q: since Mrs. Nina Hühn has mentioned it, the question is with wich 3rd party
vendors have you already tested the busbrar protection (IEC 61850 compliant)?
A: Yes, the IEC61850 compliant distributed busbar protecion can also use 3rd party
merging units as bay unit. Several interoperability tests have been succesfully done.
IEC61850 Rev2.1 is mandatory in this case.
4. Q: Can 7SS85 work with MU from other manufacturer?

5. Q: since Mrs. Nina Hühn has benn mentionet it, the question is with wich 3rd
party vendors have you already tested the busbrar protection (IEC 61850
compliant))?
6. Q: 7SS85 IEC61850 process bus complient, distributed solution: As stated, 3rd

party MUs (bay units) can be used. Are there any interoperability tests with 3rd
party MUs performed? If no, do you plan to perform some tests? If yes, with
what manufacturers and what types? Hitachi (ABB)? GE?
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Webinar Q&A
7. Q: Why can't 50EF be configured in the field units?

A: In the distributed busbar protection the EFP and inherent CBFP must be located in
the bay units. In the IEC61850 distributed busbar protection EFP and inherent CBFP
must be located in the central unit (7SS85). For the coordination of the EFP and the
inherent CBFP in the bay unit and the central unit a lot of internal communication is
necessary. This internal communication between the central unit and the bay unit is
very difficult to configure manually by GOOSE.
8. Q: Can we implement the bay level functions like End fault / inherant CBF in
IEC 618750 complaint solution??
A: This internal communication of EFP and inherent CBFP between the central unit
and the bay unit is very difficult to configure manually by GOOSE.
9. Q: What is Grey Zone Protection?

A: Grey zone protection is end fault protection in a coupler. It protects the area
between the CT and the open circuit breaker. More details will be given in session 2
of our tutorial series.
10. Q: End Fault Protection (EFP) It means boundary of Bus Section ?

A: End fault protection protects the area between the CT and the open circuit
breaker. More details will be given in session 2 of our tutorial series.
11. Q: Is the 50EF protection necessary to block 87B during an end fault? or does
an open Circuit breaker in the BAY already automaticlly remove that TC from
87B calculation?
A: 50EF and 50BF will be discussed in detail in session 2 of our tutorial series.
12. Q: Can we implement the bay level functions like End fault / inherant CBF in
IEC 618750 complaint solution??
13. Q: 50BF / 50EF: Only in 7SS85 or only in MU or in both?
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Webinar Q&A
14. Q: BUSBAR 50BF and BAY 50BF all need

A: 50EF and 50BF will be discussed in detail in session 2 of our tutorial series.
15. Q: Is the stabilizing BB current in 7SS85 also time delayed with \low pass
filter\" with 64 ms time delay? Does this apply to Bus and Check zone stabilizing
current? "
A: In the 7SS85 busbar protection system is no time delay 64ms implemented. The
principle of the busbar differential protection algorithm will be discussed in detail in
session 2 of our tutorial series.
16. Q: Why 200 FP in 7SJ85 as MU?

A: The 200 function points are the compensation as you will save a complete
additional device.
17. Q: We have a new project using 7SS522 System and its in the commissioning
stage, will Siemens Supply spare parts form another 10 Years
A: For sure. We guarantee 10 years spare parts and repair after discontinuation.
18. Q: In the presentation of migration concepts you did not mention that there
is a \replacement\" of the SIP4 solution with 7UT6* => in 7UM85 there is a 87B
functionality implemented for small (up to 5 bays) systems. As I am internal, in
case from strategical point you do not want to mention this, it is o.k."
A: The busbar protecion inside the 7UM85 is only a backup protection and no main
protection.
19. Q: is 7UT6 is only for single busbar system

A: Yes, it is only for single busses.
20. Q: Can we use a 7UT86 for single bus bar protection ( using the
autotransformer diff. function ? ).
A: In contrast to the 7UT6, the 7UT8 does not officially support busbar protection
anymore.
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Webinar Q&A
21. Q: When would you transition from using a relay like the 7UT86 to the 7SS85
for a bus bar protection solution? Second part of the question: What would be
best to protect a 3 ended 'mesh corner'?
anymore. Second Part: A centralized 7SS85 with 1 zone.
22. Q: 7UT85 only for Transformer differential

anymore.
23. Q: is 7UT6 is only for single busbar systems/

A: Yes, the 7UT6 supports only single bus systems.
24. Q: What are the differences in the busbar differential protection algorithms
between the 7SS52 and the 7SS85?
A: Basically there are no differences in the algorithms of the 7SS52 and the 7SS85.
25. Q: Why the free time of saturation should be >2ms?

A: We need 2ms to block the fast 1 out of 1 algorithm. More details will be explained
in session 2 of our tutorial series.
26. Q: Could you please explain me primary effective setting of single phase
earth fault current & double phase earth fault current setting ?
A: There are no different settings for single phase or double phase fault necessary for
busbar differential protecion. More details will be explained in session 2 of our
tutorial series.
27. Q: Do you see GIS Switchgear or indoor Switchgear needs Busbar Protection
if Arc Protection is implemented?
A: Arc protection can not substitute busbar protection, it can only be a good
complement. There may also be high current faults without arcing.
28. Q: Could you please explain me about new feature of DC transient & DC
component block what it is and it's usage in busbar protection?
A: The algorithm including behaviour incase of strong DC offset will be explained in
29. Q: Depending upon busbar protection stability what is the relay required to
operate more time to operate DC transient component & has been designed
special features to block the DC block component ?
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Webinar Q&A
A: The algorithm including behaviour incase of strong DC offset will be explained in

30. Q: Because of fault current & current transformer heavily saturation some
times we are adding time delay but it is not acceptable & not feasible to
calculate the spill current & it is not necessary. Then what is alternative
technique to obtain high performance & information to obtain high
performance of busbar protection in line with this to get circulating current
system ?
A: The algorithm to be stable in case of CT saturation will be explained in session 2 of
our tutorial series.
31. Q: Under in zone fault condition current transformer should produce

sufficient output to operate relay then this is achieved by twice the necessary
setting voltage & higher multiple advantage ensuring high speed operation to
cater for error how it is possible & how will set ?
A: The bus bar differential algorithm will be explained in session 2 of our tutorial
series. For busbar differential protecion no voltage is necessary.
32. Q: In respect of fast operation as a safeguard increasing effective setting

current too much sacrifice the speed of operating relay. So what is check feature
of busbar protection faster operation setting ?
series.
33. Q: Please could you explain me what the check feature of busbar protection
for phase faut system & earth fault system ?
series.
34. Q: Please correct me differential busbar protection operates based on

circulating current system but low impedance busbar protection call it as a
current operated relay & high impedance busbar protection call it is as voltage
operated relay ? So it's correct ? Because both are operated based fault current
only but how it is possible to say that low impedance busbar protection current
operated relay ? & High impedance busbar protection voltage operated relay?
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Webinar Q&A
series.
In a high impedance busbar protection system all primary CTs are in parallel. In a
healty system the resulting voltage of this paralleing CTs is zero. In case of an
internal fault this voltage will be unequal zero. This voltage will typically measured
by an overcurrent device together with additional resistors and a varistor. The
varistor is necessary to limit the very high arising voltage in case of internal faults.
35. Q: Depending upon busbar protection stability what is the relay required to
operate more time to operate DC transient component & has been designed
special features to block the DC block component ?
series.
36. Q: If I understand correctly, in the distributed BBP 7SS85 the 50BF(CBFP)

function is included in the central unit, and the End fault protection is included
in the bay units. Why is that? Is it possible to have 50BF configured in the bay
units?
A: Sorry, you misunderstood. In the distributed BBP the 50BF, same as 50EF, is
located in the bay unit.
37. Q: sorry, but I can not understand why \the same\" 50BF function (5 FPs per
instance) is required / instantieted within the both Busbar Protection CU and
MU."
A: Sorry, you misunderstood. In the distributed BBP the 50BF is only required in the
MU, not in the CU.
38. Q: Why we did not considered CBFP on bus coupler in this double bus basic
configuration?
A: The CBFP which can be started external, e.g. by a feeder/line protection device is
not necessary, as an external protecion device is typically not available in a coupler.
The inherent CBFP, which will be started internal by the busbar protection, should be
considered. The inherent CBFP is free of charge. More details will be explained in
39. Q: can we use 50BF inherent,not pay 5 function points?

A: The inherent CBFP can only will be started internal by the busbar protection, but
not external by e.g. a feeder protection device. More details will be explained in
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Webinar Q&A
40. Q: Can the 7SS85 be used as a single centralised protection system? Does it
have the ability to carry out any mains protection such as the distance
protection algorithm? Similar to the SSC600 by ABB.
A: The centralized 7SS85 supports a lot of additional backup protection functions,
like CBFP, EFP, directional and undirectional Overcurrent protection, voltage
protection and frequency protection. Also Impedance protection (21T) is supported.
The full distance protection 1- and 3 pole like in the 7SA or 7SA is not supported.
41. Q: When we select online configuration, what is different between selecting

‘2 zones, 4 bays incl.’ and ‘ 2 zones, 4 bays incl., disclm’? For EX, if our bus arr is
Double Single BKR. 3 Bays + 1 BC (2 CTs in BC), How should we select in this
case?
A: A significant feature with disconnector image is always necessary if the current
transformer of a feeder can be assigned to more than one bus zone. Line
disconnector switches, bus section disconnector switches, or disconnectors in bus
couplers are also available in Significant features without a disconnector image.
42. Q: How to decide whether to choose centralised or Decentralised bus bar

protection?
A: Please refer to my tutorial slides page 45 "Device selection"
43. Q: Does BB protection still need CT for both side of bus coupler or bus section
bay?
A: No, a bus coupler or bus section is also with only one CT possible.
44. Q: Are there specific things to be considered when chosing 7SS85 in GIS
substations respectivelly in AIS substations?
A: In GIS substations a centralized busbar protection can be applied. In AIS
substations a centralized busbar protection is critical. The long wiring of the CTs may
lead to a high burden of the primary CTs, which causes a early CT saturation. Beyond
this nothing specific must be considered.
45. Q: if we have 2 busbars then it is 1 zone but 2 7SS85 or 1 7SS85 but then 2
zones. Meaning separate devices for each busbar. Correct?
A: If the 2 busbars are two single busses, both one 7SS85 and two 7SS85 are
possible. But using only one 7SS85 is the cheaper and preffered solution.
46. Q: Can you explain how much the additional CPU usage is of of a bay
protection device that is used for PB connection to the 7SS85CU AND as backup
protection device?
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Webinar Q&A
A: The additional CPU power to connect a modular SIP5 device to a 7SS85 is very low,
as most of the calculation is done in the FPGA of the ETH-BD-2FO module.
47. Q: When do we need to include the cross-stabilisation functionality in the

BBP?
A: Only in 3-pole enclosed gas-insulated switchgears:
In 3-pole enclosed gas-insulated switchgears, a high 1-phase short-circuit current can
induce significant error
currents in the secondary windings of the adjacent transformers. These error currents
may simulate an
internal error. To avoid tripping of the busbar protection, there is the optional Cross
stabilization function
block.
48. Q: CT class X or 5P20 for example? Strict for high impedance BBP
A: Both types are possible. The CT requirements will be discussed in detail in session
3 of our tutorial series.
49. Q: I believe that's about CT orijentation. BBP are noramlly oriented towards
BB. I hipe that I have understood it properly.
A: I know substations where the CT is grounded in direction of the BB and in direction
of the line. Both is possible.
50. Q: What can be max CT ratio on substation to use BB 7SS85?

A: There is no maximum CT ratio defined.
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Webinar Q&A
1. Q: Can we use ct class 5P10 and 5p20 for this relay for busbar protection?
A: Yes, both CT classes are possible in principle. The CT requirements will be
discussed in detail in session 3 of our tutorial series.
2. Q: Do we have any provision to identify bay level CT supervision apart from

Differential supervision
A: Both the AD (or fast current sum) supervision and differential current supervision
are avaiable in the 7SS85. This topic will be explained in detail in session 2 of our
tutorial series.

Differential supervision?
A: Both the AD (or fast current sum) supervision and differential current supervision
are avaiable in the 7SS85. This topic will be explained in detail in session 2 of our
tutorial series.

Differential supervision? addition of this above question. We have Differential
CT Supervision general signal. Is it possible to have CT Supervision for All Bays
(48 bays) for Both SIP
A: Both the AD (or fast current sum) supervision for all bays and differential current
supervision are avaiable in the 7SS85. This topic will be explained in detail in session
5. Q: 20CTs for centralized solution. does that men thats max 5 bays?
A: One CT includes IA, IB, IC and IN (or I1, I2, I3 and In). So it means max. 20 feeder
bays.
6. Q: How many bays possible total in 7SS85 CU, Distributed, Mentioned in

slides is 48 bays, but earlier in each ETH-BD Port 15 Bays were possible, If total 3
ETH- BD ports, so total 45
A: With version V9.40 (Release beginning January 2023) 16 bays per ETH-BD are
possible. So the total number with 3 ETH-BD modules is 48. Before (up to V9.30) it
was 15 per ETH-BD or 45 in total.
7. Q: 20CTs for centralized solution. does that men thats max 5 bays?
A: One CT includes IA, IB, IC and IN (or I1, I2, I3 and In). So it means max. 20 feeder
bays.
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Webinar Q&A
8. Q: How many bays possible total in 7SS85 CU, Distributed, Mentioned in

slides is 48 bays, but earlier in each ETH-BD Port 15 Bays were possible, If total 3
ETH- BD ports, so total 45
A: With version V9.40 (Release beginning January 2023) 16 bays per ETH-BD are
possible. So the total number with 3 ETH-BD modules is 48. Before (up to V9.30) it
was 15 per ETH-BD or 45 in total.
9. Q: what is solution for more than 20 CT's for busbar protection

A: If possible a split into two busbar protection systms can be done: A sectionalizing
coupler will be feeder in each of the two busbar protection systems. Or appliing the
distributed busbar protection, which supports up to 48 CTs.
10. Q: Do we need 1 CT per Bay or 1 set of CT's per Bay for RYB
A: For each bay we need one CT which includes IA, IB, IC and IN (or I1, I2, I3 and In).
11. Q: Do we have always a separate bay for the busbar coupler, even if we have
only a disconnector and not a CB in it?
A: At the centralized busbar protection a separate bay in this case is necessary, but
not for the distributed busbar protection.
12. Q: Do we need atleast 3 CT's for per bay (1CT for each phase)
A: One CT includes IA, IB, IC and IN (or I1, I2, I3 and In). So it means 1CT per bay.
13. Q: 1 CT refers to 1 measurement point, i.e. a physical CT device per phase

(3ph + N)
A: Correct: One CT includes all 3 phases + In
14. Q: Is Check Zone in 7SS85 also CB status dependant?

A: Yes, it is also CB status independent. One exception is end fault protection. This
will be discussed in detail in session 2 of our tutorial series.
15. Q: Why are the CT's marked as BI in excercise 3?

A: In all exercises the CTs are marked as "BI1". To be honest, I don't know exactly
where it comes from… But it is for sure not related to binary inputs.
16. Q: As far as I understood from other webinars from the version 9.3 upward
there are no standard steps for the FP. Is this possibility available only for the
DAF extension files?
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Webinar Q&A
A: Of course also the classless functions points can be used for busbar protecion. But
the function point classes are still valid. The advantage of the FP classes are, that you
don't need additionally the FP manager.
17. Q: When will the possibility to use the best master clock algorithm in the
siprotec be released?
A: With the V9.40 the BMC will be available when using only SIPROTEC5 internal
GMCs. More details of the SMV- and date and time synchronization will be discussed
18. Q: For Process bus communication, will 7SS85 main unit acts as grand
master clock for time sync or otherwise can we have to connect external GPS?
A: Details of the SMV- and date and time synchronization will be discussed in session
19. Q: Is it necessary to have externa PTP clock or 7SS85 can emulate PTP clock
for process bus distributed solution?
master clock for time sync or otherwise can we have to connect external
GPS?GPS??
master clock for time sync or otherwise can we have to connect external GPS?
22. Q: Can we use high impedance function that built-in low impedance BB
protection with MUs? If yes how?
A: Yes, this is possible in principle. Each overcurrent protection device can be used in
principle.
23. Q: Is this compatible with low impedance and high impedance

A: High Impedance and Low Impedance busbar protecion is not compatible.
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Webinar Q&A
24. Q: Please tell me whether it is low impedance or high impedance busbar
protection operated based on votage drop at relay circuit setting current and it
is considered as voltage measuring device. Then it operates based on
differential current but both or voltage measuring device which developed
across at secondary circuit? Also in ideal or practical case differential busbar
protection operated based on two difference of CT then what is extreme
condition of unbalance between 2 current transformers & what is safety margin
in voltage setting respective to Vf = If(RL+RCT) ?
A: Neither Low- or High Impedance busbar protecion is based voltage drops.
Sometimes the undervoltage criteria is required as additional criteria to thedifferenti-
al criteria. This can be realized by using the external release criteria.
25. Q: Is 7SS85 used bor High-Imp type or Low-Imp type Busbar protection?
A: 7SS85 is a low impedance busbar protection device.
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Webinar Q&A
26. Q: When we have to select low impendence and when select highimpedence
27. Q: In BUS BAR protection scheme, which of the following is more reliable:
- High Impedance
- Low Impedance
A: Both High- and Low Impedance busbar protection is reliable. They have several
advantages and disadvantages:
High Imp. Disadvantages:

all CTs must have the same ratio and characteristic (e.g. class X)
separate CT core required
check zone needs separate CT core
wires must withstand high voltages (possible insulation problems in the course of
time -> voltage limiting by Metrosil)
disconnector aux. contacts or aux. relays cause switching of secondary currents (risk
of primary CT damage, low reliability of contacts)
no integration of feeder (back up) protection
reduced reliability (no self supervision)
no meaningful fault record (no measured values)
no operational measurement values
no shorted CT detection, open CT circuits lead to tripping
no commissioning aids, difficult testing
Low Imp. Advantages:

no special CT requirements, e.g. 5Px, class TPY and TPZ can be combined
different CT ratios can be matched by software
CT core can be shared with feeder protection
no separate core necessary for check zone
complex configurations can be handled with low effort, easy to extend
high reliability (self supervision)
fully static disconnector replica (no current switching)
decentralized BBP covers even large distances (outdoor switchgears)
Evaluation:
for simple bus arrangements high-Z-BBP will be an alternative even in future
for switchable busbars low-Z-BBP offers more reliability due to it´s design
low-Z-BBP provides relevant information during operation and for bus faults
Life-time costs argue for low-Z-BBP due to fully static design and comprehensive self
supervision (cyclic testing intervals can be extended)
a cost comparison will lead to quite different results, depending whether CTs or other
criteria (breaker fail, communication, auxiliary relays) have to be considered or not.
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Webinar Q&A
28. Q: is it possible to subscribe process bus stream from two different CU at the
same time i.e does CU works in Hot standby mode?
A: The hot standby mode is on our roadmap, but not yet available.
29. Q: IEC61850 which edition please?

A: Rev. 2.1
30. Q: do we need high number of LEDs (64)??

A: This depends on the customert requirements. LEDs are not necessary for the basic
protection functionality.
31. Q: which CTs are used for busbar zoning, can line CTs be used for busbar
protection os its only busbar CTs
A: Sorry, your question is not clear to me. Please contact me directly for a discussion.
32. Q: Can we use the BB protection with several MUs instead of the line
differential relay between many substation?
A: Busbar protection can't replace line differential protection over more than 100 km.
The algorithms are not prepared for this. But a line differential device can be used as
a bay unit for the busbar protecion.
33. Q: I have maybe a silly question: What is the naming convention of the
SIPROTEC devices? I mean what are all these characters always starting with
7S*** or 7U*** and etc.
A: This is the naming convention of the Siemens ordering code scheme.
34. Q: for centralized protection application, relay should install in one panel.
question is does this wiring for 20bays is adequate for a standard panel size
800x 800x 2300mm. or any panel size is recomnded
A: A centralized 7SS85 for 20 bays will consist on two 19'' rows. One row has the
dimensions: 450mm x 266mm x 231mm (width x height x depth) flush mounting
35. Q: Can we upgrade only BU of 7SS52 with 6MU or 7SS85?

A: 7SS52 bay uints can't be used as bay units for the 7SS85
36. Q: What is your recommendation when it comes to redundancy of Bay Units

(BU) which interface with the 7SS85? What protection redundancy is offered by
the 7SS85?
A: A redundancy of bay uints in on our roadmap. As communication redundancy PRP
and HSR are available.
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Webinar Q&A
37. Q: What protection redundancy does Siemens recommend between MU and

7SS85? For example, the MU would carry out line differential and phase OC and
EF but in the event this device fails, what protection redundancy can the 7SS85
provide?
A: The central unit of the distributed busbar protection does not support any backup
protection functionality. They are different redundacy concepts on bay level possible.
Please contact me directly. I will share additional slides with you.
38. Q: What are pros/cons on centralized over Distributed ?

as well as hybrid systems
39. Q: How many bays/feeders can be used in 7SS85 centralized and distributed
configuration?
A: Centralized: Up to 20, Distributed: Up to 48
40. Q: what is the difference between Hybrid and Centralized solutions?

A: Please refer to my tutorial slides page 24 "Centralized busbar protection" and slide
"26" Hybrid busbar.
41. Q: What determines what type of busbar protection to use between

centralised and distributed? Which solution is best between the 2? What are the
pros and cons of one over the other?
42. Q: In exercise 3 what is the electrical meaning of associating for each DS in

the feeder a CT? In this case it was said that the DS image is not necessary but
putting it it can be checked the correct association of the auxliary contacts to
the primary position of the switch and eventual deliver an alarm signal.
A: What do you mean by "electrical meaning"? Please contact me directly. It is better

to have a short discussion.
43. Q: At what point do I chose centralized or distributed busbar protection?
44. Q: What is pros/cons on centralized over Distributed as well as hybrid

systems?
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Webinar Q&A
45. Q: Whats the main difference between 7ss85cu and iec complaint ii dont
understand it during the explanation
46. Q: Can you clarify concept of disconnector image and where it is utilized?
A: A significant feature with disconnector image is always necessary if the current

transformer of a feeder can be assigned to more than one bus zone. Line
disconnector switches, bus section disconnector switches, or disconnectors in bus
couplers are also available in Significant features without a disconnector image.
47. Q: Is there implemented an algorithm to check whether the auxiliary

contacts of the switching devices CB/DS are still in accordance with the primary
position of the devices?
A: Yes, it is. More details will be discussed in session 2 of our tutorial series.
48. Q: Why we did not considered CBFP on bus coupler in this double bus basic
configuration?
A: The CBFP which can be started external, e.g. by a feeder/line protection device is
not necessary, as an external protecion device is typically not available in a coupler.
The inherent CBFP, which will be started internal by the busbar protection, should be
considered. The inherent CBFP is free of charge. More details will be explained in
49. Q: Why need CB close command?

A: The CB Close command is necessary when end fault protecion (EFP) is used. With
the CB close command the EFP will be deactivated on time. More details will be
explained in session 2 of our tutorial series.
50. Q: CB CLOSE COMMAND USED FOR WHICH REASON

A: The CB Close command is necessary when end fault protecion (EFP) is used. With
the CB close command the EFP will be deactivated on time. More details will be
explained in session 2 of our tutorial series.
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Webinar Q&A
1. Q: Difference between inherent BF and breaker failure

A: The inherent CBFP can only be started internal by the busbar protection, but not
external by e.g. a feeder protection device. More details will be explained in session 2
of our tutorial series.
2. Q: I have interest to know on different communication topology for

decentrelized SIP5 BBP.
A: This topic will be intensely discussed in session 4 of our tutorial series.
3. Q: I hope we will see how to implement/configure the CBFP into 7SS85 CU?
4. Q: I have interest to know on different communication topology for

decentrelized SIP5 BBP.
5. Q: Samling rate: acc. to IEC 61869-9:2016 chapter 6.903.3 (table 902) 4800 Hz
with 2 ASDU is preffered rate for general measuring and protective applications,
regardless of the power system frequency. Could you please comment why 1
ASDU is preffered / should be used by 7SS85?
A: In SIPROTEC 5 one lost sample can be interpolated and therefore no protection
blockling will happen. 2 ASDU means the stream includes two successive samples. So
one lost telegramm of such a stream would lead to a protection blocking. Therefore
we decided not to use this stream type.
6. Q: low set elements capable of detecting high resistance EF current as low as

200 Amp. How to detect High resistive E/F in SIP5
A: This can be done with the sensitive characteristics. More details will be discussed
7. Q: please tell me test procedure

A: Please refer to chapter 10 Functional Test in the 7SS85 manual
8. Q: Is it also possible to activate the internal GMC in the merging unit?

A: Yes, this is possible. But you have to pay functions points to activate the GMC in
the MU. It is only in the 7SS85 free of charge.
9. Q: How does the time synchronization in the 7SS85 distributed version work?
A: It is working according IEEE 1588 PTP.
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Webinar Q&A
10. Q: How to implement time synchronisation in busbar protection?

11. Q: How time sync implemented in Bay units?

12. Q: Please explain what a transfer bus is

A: A transfer bus is a bus zone which is typically only used in case of maintenance
activity at some feeders. Via the transfer bus the feeders in maintenance mode can
still supplied with power. The feeder is connected with the transfer bus without
dedicated CB and CT.
13. Q: In the .pdf you mentionshort trippingtime of 8 to 12 ms. At which Id

differential values are these trip times measured? Thanks
A: The differential current must be higher than 4 times of the nominal current (Irobj).
14. Q: Can we purchase an upgrade to a 7SS85, that we have already bought,

with additional software functions? Is there a \key\" given to us for the upgrade?
Is it installed through DIGSI?"
A: Yes , a function extension of a 7SS85 can be orderd via the SIPROTEC 5
configurator. You will get a new DAF file which must be downloaded to the device
via DIGSI5.
15. Q: some customer in India asking for VT module in 7SS ...Is it possible to
add?
A: It is possible for the centralized and the IEC61850 complient 7SS85. It it is not
possible for the distributed 7SS85 CU.
16. Q: For the case of the relay shall be equipped with VT modules to measure
the bus voltages so that reference load flow can be taken from bus voltage as
well as for providing secure operation in case of inadvertent shorting of CT
A: Yes, this is correct.
17. Q: How it's works, basic configuration.

A: The context of your question is unclear. Please contact me offline
18. Q: Do you know when Sip 5 can handle several GM in the network with
priority?
Page 19
Webinar Q&A
A: I am not sure about this question. Do you mean when our integrated IEEE1588
GMC (Grand Master Clock) supports the BMCA (Best Master Clock Algorithm) ? This is
already partly the case. For more details, please refer to Session 4 of our tutorial
series.
19. Q: Same in busbar protection check feature what is reason for no CT

switching is require & no CT required for check zone in bus coupler & bus section
breakers ? Also it is only for check zone not for main or discrimination zone ?
Actually what is & why it is like that with reason ?
A: The check zone functionality and the disconnector immage will be discussed in
detail in session 2 of our tutorial series
20. Q: BB Protection can be used as the IED and BCU function combination in the
7SS85.
A: This question is unclear to me. Please contact me offline
21. Q: Will you guys will provide training certificate upon completing this
course?
A: As this is a webinar with informative content where we don´t provide a certificate.
You may get a certificate when booking a course with our Power Academy, Link:
siemens.com/poweracademy
22. Q: Did you start the prequalification of your new 7SS85 in Saudi Arabia as
Centrilized and Distribuated System
A: In Saudi Arabia we started the prequalification of both the centralized and
distributed 7SS85.
23. Q: Can you please share any reference project used new System in the Gulf
region
A: We have already reference projects in Oman and many projects are in
commisioning phase in UAE. Unfortunalely it is not allowed to tell details about this
projects.
24. Q: In the slides you stated for 7SS85 up to 6 bus zones => but you can have
up to 20 bus zones, is tghere a reason to state only 6 bus zones?
A: Centralized and IEC61850 complient: Up to 6, Distributed: Up to 48
25. Q: What does XMZ mean?

A: XMZ means overcurrect protection.
Page 20
Webinar Q&A
26. Q: Applaus: I knew Mr. Mathias Schick before he retired for many years
practically virtually only. Dear expert Mr. Rainer Goblirsch answers all questions
and concerns regarding \new\" Siemens Busbar Protection system 7SS85 in an
very good, proper and professional way. Refer to him and you will get very
reliable answer."
A: Thanks you very much for this praise :-)
27. Q: With one BI for DS position which type of aux contact should be used - NO
or NC
A: When using one BI only the NC contact is allowed.
28. Q: For 7SS85 BB, single point status of isolator is sufficient?

A: Yes, but the NC contact must be used.
29. Q: Device selection: represents \Fix 4000 Hz, 1ASDU\" the 50Hz system or is
also valid for 60Hz systems?"
A: The 4000Hz 1 ASDU is also used in 60 Hz. systems.
30. Q: Is there and option to order merging unit with a display?

A: The 6MU85 is a fully modular SIPROTEC5 device. It can be ordered without display,
with a small or with a large display.
31. Q: Merging unit: Can the small display show circuit breakers and
disconnectors or do we need the large display for that?
A: The small display is sufficient to display the operational values and the most
important status values. But if you want to show the single line together with the
values, we recommend a large display.
32. Q: Can we use 7SS85 for \230kV RING-TYPE BUSBAR\" protection ? "
A: Yes, the 7SS85 can also be used for ring type busbar protection.
33. Q: Is busbar protection is necessary for Single pole metal enclosed

switchgear ?
A: Yes, also in Single pole metal enclosed switchgear mechanical problems with the
circuit breakers or disconnectors may cause faults.
34. Q: Will the 7SS85 and 6MU85 DDD be released at the same time as DIGSI
9.40?
A: Yes, both 7SS85 and 6MU85 will be released together with the 9.40.
Page 21
Webinar Q&A
35. Q: Applaus: I knew Mr. Mathias Schick before he retired for many years
practically virtually only. Dear expert Mr. Rainer Goblirsch answers all questions
and concerns regarding \new\" Siemens Busbar Protection system 7SS85 in an
very good, proper and professional way. Refer to him and you will get very
reliable answer."
A: Thanks you very much for this praise :-)
36. Q: With one BI for DS position which type of aux contact should be used - NO
or NC
A: The NC contact must be used.
37. Q: If we have 2 busbars then it is 1 zone but 2 7SS85 or 1 7SS85 but then 2
zones. Correct?
A: One 7SS85 can handle up to 6 zones/ busbars (Centralized 7SS85) or up to 20
zones / busbars (distributed 7SS85).
Page 22
Published by Siemens 2023
Smart Infrastructure
Electrification & Automation
Mozartstraße 31 C
91052 Erlangen
Germany
For the U.S. published by

Siemens Industry Inc.
100 Technology Drive
Alpharetta, GA 30005
United States
© Siemens 2023
Subject to changes and errors. The information given in this document/video only
contains general descriptions and/or performance features which may not always
specifically reflect those described, or which may undergo modification in the
course of further development of the products. The requested performance
features are binding only when they are expressly agreed upon in the concluded
contract.
All product designations may be trademarks or other rights of Siemens, its
affiliated companies or other companies whose use by third parties for their own
purposes could violate the rights of the respective owner.
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Session 1 - Busbar Protection Systems and Device Selection

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Expert Workshop Q&A

Session 1: Busbar protection

Contact: Rainer Goblirsch

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4. Q: Can 7SS85 work with MU from other manufacturer?

6. Q: 7SS85 IEC61850 process bus complient, distributed solution: As stated, 3rd

7. Q: Why can't 50EF be configured in the field units?

9. Q: What is Grey Zone Protection?

10. Q: End Fault Protection (EFP) It means boundary of Bus Section ?

13. Q: 50BF / 50EF: Only in 7SS85 or only in MU or in both?

14. Q: BUSBAR 50BF and BAY 50BF all need

16. Q: Why 200 FP in 7SJ85 as MU?

19. Q: is 7UT6 is only for single busbar system

22. Q: 7UT85 only for Transformer differential

23. Q: is 7UT6 is only for single busbar systems/

25. Q: Why the free time of saturation should be >2ms?

A: The algorithm including behaviour incase of strong DC offset will be explained in

31. Q: Under in zone fault condition current transformer should produce

32. Q: In respect of fast operation as a safeguard increasing effective setting

34. Q: Please correct me differential busbar protection operates based on

36. Q: If I understand correctly, in the distributed BBP 7SS85 the 50BF(CBFP)

39. Q: can we use 50BF inherent,not pay 5 function points?

41. Q: When we select online configuration, what is different between selecting

42. Q: How to decide whether to choose centralised or Decentralised bus bar

47. Q: When do we need to include the cross-stabilisation functionality in the

50. Q: What can be max CT ratio on substation to use BB 7SS85?

2. Q: Do we have any provision to identify bay level CT supervision apart from

3. Q: Do we have any provision to identify bay level CT supervision apart from

4. Q: Do we have any provision to identify bay level CT supervision apart from

6. Q: How many bays possible total in 7SS85 CU, Distributed, Mentioned in

8. Q: How many bays possible total in 7SS85 CU, Distributed, Mentioned in

9. Q: what is solution for more than 20 CT's for busbar protection

13. Q: 1 CT refers to 1 measurement point, i.e. a physical CT device per phase

14. Q: Is Check Zone in 7SS85 also CB status dependant?

15. Q: Why are the CT's marked as BI in excercise 3?

23. Q: Is this compatible with low impedance and high impedance

High Imp. Disadvantages:

Low Imp. Advantages:

29. Q: IEC61850 which edition please?

30. Q: do we need high number of LEDs (64)??

35. Q: Can we upgrade only BU of 7SS52 with 6MU or 7SS85?

36. Q: What is your recommendation when it comes to redundancy of Bay Units

37. Q: What protection redundancy does Siemens recommend between MU and

38. Q: What are pros/cons on centralized over Distributed ?

40. Q: what is the difference between Hybrid and Centralized solutions?

41. Q: What determines what type of busbar protection to use between

42. Q: In exercise 3 what is the electrical meaning of associating for each DS in

A: What do you mean by "electrical meaning"? Please contact me directly. It is better

43. Q: At what point do I chose centralized or distributed busbar protection?

A: Please refer to my tutorial slides page 44 "Device selection"

44. Q: What is pros/cons on centralized over Distributed as well as hybrid

A: A significant feature with disconnector image is always necessary if the current

47. Q: Is there implemented an algorithm to check whether the auxiliary

49. Q: Why need CB close command?

50. Q: CB CLOSE COMMAND USED FOR WHICH REASON

1. Q: Difference between inherent BF and breaker failure

2. Q: I have interest to know on different communication topology for

A: This topic will be intensely discussed in session 4 of our tutorial series.

4. Q: I have interest to know on different communication topology for

6. Q: low set elements capable of detecting high resistance EF current as low as

7. Q: please tell me test procedure

8. Q: Is it also possible to activate the internal GMC in the merging unit?

A: It is working according IEEE 1588 PTP.