Master Online Dating

Transcript of Marni & J’s Conversation

Marni: Alright, so I was with my friend at the coffee shop the other day and
we started talking about the days when she online dated and she was
telling me about the pros and cons. Obviously I said, “Stop telling me things
because I want to record exactly what you're saying so that I can show it to
the guys that sign up for my newsletters and to other guys that listen to my
materials because I think it's really valuable information to hear straight
from a woman how a woman looks at online profiles.” So I'm not going to
say her name but I'm going to say hello to my friend and thank you for
talking to me.

J: Thank you. This will be fun.

Marni: Yeah. So I wanted to talk to you first a little bit just about overall
online dating and how you typically used online dating. So like when you
used to go online what was it that you were looking for?

J: Well I mean everyone who goes online I think they look at the pictures
first you know. That's the initial thing is you look at a little thumbnail and
does that interest you. But then going

Marni: So it's all superficial.

J: Yeah that's all it is. It's all about sex really.

Marni: You better be pretty.

J: Women only want attractive, sexy men. No. So the initial hook is like you
look at the photo, but then once I got to the page, you know really quickly
whether or not the person is interesting to you or not. And I think profiles
need to have the right combination of honesty and humor and a little bit of
depth but not so much depth that you feel like they're completely indiscrete
and ridiculous. So that you don't take it seriously but also recognize that
nobody wants to online date. It has to be women are sticklers for grammar
  

and the pictures need to be appropriate and there are some ground floor
things that you can eliminate a few guys if they break a couple different
rules that are unacceptable. And then after that, profiles can really be
terrific they're fun and if there was a sweetness to them and yeah, some of
them come across really, really well in a profile with just like I think a few
simple things.

Marni: So did you ever go out with a guy who screwed up in his profile and
who you kind of could sense that there was something good there but he
wasn't representing himself well?

J: I mean I think that there were a couple of people that approached me

that I'd thought I don't really like this profile but I'll talk to them. And there
would be a back and forth and they would kind of screw up the initial
emailing and I wouldn't ever meet. But on the flip side, there were guys
whose pictures I looked at and was like yeah, no way no day, and then
their profiles were so dazzling and the email too just were so great that I
ended up meeting them.

Marni: Really?

J: Yeah.

Marni: Okay so it's not completely just about the picture.

J: No, no, no.

Marni: The interactions.

J: Yeah the picture is just the initial I click on you because that looks
interesting. And even some pictures it's not really about the attractiveness
of the guy. It's about what the image is if it's something that sort of like
catches your eye. But then, no, there are plenty of guys who are handsome
and you read their profiles and it's just a list of things where they say
something offensive or it's just LOL and hahaha and ellipses and terrible
punctuation or like sexist things and you're like “Forget it, it doesn't matter
how attractive you are.”
  

Marni: So what were you looking for when you were using online? Were
you looking for sex? For dates? For friendships?

J: Yeah I was looking for dating. I was looking for the man of my dreams
but I was also looking for just dating, like casual dating. I wasn't looking for
casual sex. I wasn't looking for friends. I was not looking for pen pals. I was
interested in meeting, exchanging a handful of emails and then, I mean
connecting over online, exchanging a handful of emails and then meeting in
person like as quickly as possible.

Marni: Really?

J: Yeah.

Marni: Okay, so you wanted to get to that date as soon as possible.

J: Yeah well because I learned also that one of the mistakes early on for
me was—but I'm a writer so my emailing is a big thing for me and I would
have these really exciting, fun, hilarious exchanges with guys and I'd get
really invested and then I'd meet them and there would be zero chemistry.
And that was really disappointing. So after a while I was like when I looked
at the profiles I wanted to know that the person was sane. This kind of
sounds weird but like a considerate member of society. Like somebody
who like gets it and is normal and little things. Like in my profile, one of the
things that I said is like I wouldn't date anybody who's rude to wait staff or I
wouldn't date anybody who doesn't know to let people off the elevator
before they'd get on. So there was sort of a ground floor like I need to make
sure that this person is sort of cut from the same cloth as I am in terms of
how I move around in the world. And then yeah, that there's like a spark.
There's something funny or interesting or that there's something that they
know about things that I don't know about, they can teach me things and
yeah and then I would want to meet them immediately.

Marni: I know, that makes complete sense. And so I forgot the question.
Oh! I would say, do you reach out to men a lot online?

J: I did initially and that was kind of unsatisfying because that didn't really
work very well. I think there was like one or two times where it led to dates
  

that were kind of interesting and there were repeated dates. But mostly it
just would sort of end up hurting my feelings a little bit. Like I would reach
out and they wouldn't respond and it gave me an insight into what it's like to
be on the guy's side I think because it's like so much rejection and I really
feel for men. Every email they send out is the likelihood is that they're going
to be rejected. Like that's got to be terrible. So after a while what I would do
is on the sites that I was on, if you visit someone's profile, they can see that
you visited them. So I would sort of try and make them aware of me that
way. And then I would watch who had visited me and if they had looked at
me then I knew okay then they're interested or not based on if they wrote
me or not. And then I would sort of let it go. I would do a lot of rating. I
would rate guys because on OkCupid, if you rate and they rate and it's both
like four stars or above, the system lets you know.

Marni: Oh cool. I like that.

J: Yeah I think most sort of thinking people believe that winks and pokes
and that kind of thing is kind of bullshit. Like it's a waste of everybody's
time. Like I don't know. From the girls I've spoken to and the men that I've
spoken to, I think it is most common that it's the dude's responsibility to
reach out.

Marni: I think so, too. I definitely think so. So I know that you said that you
were quite assertive and going after what you want. Would you say other
women did that?

J: No, I think I was a little bit more proactive. I'm a more proactive person.

Marni: Yeah. No, you definitely are. So I know that. But if it's for me, when I
did online dating, I probably reached out to two people then I got spammed
a lot by a lot of guys. You could tell it was a generic email they were just
sending out to every single girl. I hated those.

J: Yeah you can see through that. You can see that.

Marni: Absolutely.
  

J: Yeah that is a total rule of thumb, which by the way the term rule of
thumb is a sexist term. I try not to use it. But do you know what the rule of
thumb means?

Marni: No. What?

J: It's the rule from the 50's that you can beat your wife with anything that's
thinner than your thumb.

Marni: What?

J: Yeah. Isn't that terrible? Yeah you should not use it.

Marni: I'll never use that again.

J: I know. When it comes out, I always feel terrible. Anyway.

Marni: Especially now I'm hitting my wife. Horrible.

J: That's horrible. So a good sort of rule to work by in the online dating

space is when you reach out to a woman, you should ask her something
specific about her profile and preferably something a little bit sort of deep in
her profile, like one of the later questions that she knows that you've like
read the whole thing. Like it doesn't need to be like super cheesy and
oblique but like something to show that you're reaching directly out to her.

Marni: Okay that's very good information. So we got a little bit of insight into
the way that you utilize online dating. And what I wanted to do with you
today is actually go through some online profiles with you and just take a
look at OkCupid and just look through and read through some of the
profiles because we were reading through one the other day and you were
like that is super cheesy, it says nothing about this person.

J: Yeah.

Marni: I would never want to go out with them. So I have the OkCupid page
open right now and on the first page, you said it before I started recording
there's this guy there. I don't know. Do you think he's cute?
  

J: He's fine. He looks harmless and reasonably attractive, but yeah, he has
a blank profile which tells a woman that either you're lazy or more likely that
you're just there for sex. Actually I will say this, a pet peeve of mine, and
I've heard girls say this before, when someone's self-summary starts with
“Oh self-summary too much pressure, I'll come back for this later” Forget it.
No, next, lame.

Marni: It's like why are you online dating?

J: Yeah like what are you doing. And if you can't talk about yourself,
nobody likes to really talk about themselves and you feel like you're
bragging and there's a whole host of reasons why it's difficult and it's
challenging. But get over it. Like if you start that off and you're announcing
that you're a failure, like you're announcing that you have no confidence
and that you have no sort of get up and go. Women hate that.

Marni: Yeah I think so too and I think that's completely lazy. It's like why
don't you have that profile filled out because he's been on I don't even
know how long but he latched on it.

J: Over a week.

Marni: Yeah so don't put it up unless you have a full profile,

J: Yeah.

Marni: But like maybe just looking through these pictures here. It's not
about always how cute they are. It's like what they're showing in their
pictures as well.

J: Exactly.

Marni: So maybe if you want to go down through them. I'll only show the
pictures of people but just feel like

J: Sure, sure. Maybe scroll down a little bit more. Yeah so I would look at
that guy. The picture is clear. You can see the guy's face very clearly. He
has a hint of a smile, is looking directly at the camera and he seems
  

attractive, not threatening, not cheesy. And I would click on that and look at
that.

Marni: Is that replies very selectively?

J: Replies, well, yes, that's a thing on OkCupid that it tells you replies very
selectively. I mean to be perfectly honest as a woman when you see replies
very selectively like there is a little bit something sexy about that because it
means that he is sought after but at the same time it's a little intimidating so
I would not reach out to a guy who had said

Marni: Okay.

J: But it wouldn't stop me from looking at his picture and looking at his
profile. Did you want me to look at that profile?

Marni: Well actually yeah let's look at it.

J: Should I click on that one?

Marni: And we can just see. I think it's tiger tits. Oh I don't even want to say
that out loud but…

J: Wow that's weird.

Marni: That's interesting. So does that name throw you off?

J: Well you probably can't use a little bit but it's kind of funny so I would be
like well what do the rest of his profile say because that is sort of like quirky
sense of humor. Do you want me to read what—no, they can't see this.
Can they see this?

Marni: Yeah I mean go for it, reading.

J: Sorry.

Marni: I'm a good guy with a big heart and ultimately I want a lady that's
going to treat me right. I also have plenty of time to find that person and I'm
always looking for new friends. Let's hang.
  

J: Yeah that's not the strongest. I mean I'm a good guy with a big heart.
That's fine like great, but ultimately I want a lady that's going to treat me
right. Like my initial thought is like this guy is selfish. Like he's saying “I'm
looking for a woman who will treat me well as opposed to–.”

Marni: See I thought needy when I heard that, to tell you the truth, rather
than selfish. Okay. But yeah, but either way I didn't like it once I got to that
second.

J: Yeah and then “I have plenty of time to find that right person.” That I'm
like, oh he'd like to fuck around. Like I'm like he's not serious, and in his
third sentence, he's being like “Ladies, slow your roll.” I'm like oh my god,
forget it then.

Marni: Really? Okay. I would respond the exact same way. But the truth is
that it actually is okay.

J: It is okay. Reading the rest of it, it's clear that he is smart, and that he is
a sane person. And that he is honest like “I work hard at everything I do,
and I still struggle sometimes and I don't mind that because I have a huge
passion for it.” That's an honest statement. Like that is a nice level of a man
who is like there's some confidence to it because he's like this is the real
deal. And there's no self-pitying side of it, and there's no excusing it. That's
the kind of statement that I think is good to include in a profile. That sounds
good to me.

Marni: What about talking about your exes and your past relationships?

J: Oh yeah that's terrible. That's terrible. You should never talk about your
exes in a profile. Like that, full stop. No.

Marni: Okay. So what is your profile for then? Or the self-summary portion
which is what most people read.

J: Right. I think that the self-summary portion should be about you, not
about what you're looking for. That shouldn't be the point, right off the bat. I
think the first paragraph really should not be about that the kind of woman
you're looking for, the big love that you're looking for. It is a representation
  

of you. I think it shouldn't be too long. I think that three paragraphs is good.
I think that it should give a sense of your values and your personality and
your sort of voice. I think there should be some humor in it and I think it
should be a good balance of light and fluffy and a little bit of heartfelt
something. You don't want too much of either. You don't want a guy who's
not taking it seriously and you don't want a guy who is too heavy.

Marni: Okay so let's go to another one.

J: Sure. So self-summary sometimes people just write three adjectives. I

think that's like the system sometimes says that that is a recommendation. I
don't think it's terrible but I'm not inclined to read more like I'm like that's it,
just three, really? I mean those are three kind, fun, good ones but still it's

Marni: But it doesn't mean anything. There's . . . to be attached to or to

latch on to.

J: Right.

Marni: So I always tell guys when they're in conversation with women that
they want to leave a connection, a connection point or a connecting point.

J: Yeah.

Marni: So something for them to latch on to which is typically sharing

something about themselves where they're not being negative Nelly and
sad me but they're sharing something about themselves, their experiences,
and well, in conversation, you typically want to appreciate the person that
you're talking to in some way, not in a wimpy, over-complimentary way but
in a genuine and authentic way. And obviously that doesn't translate to
online dating because you can't really appreciate the other person,
especially in your profile. But I think the important thing to do is actually
appreciate yourself.

J: Yes.

Marni: And show that you like you, you like who you are and that's what I
typically want to see in a profile. Or what I'd wanted to see in a profile.
  

J: Yeah I also think something else like in writing fiction and screenplays,
one of the things that they say is show don't tell. And I think that that is a
good way of looking at writing a profile. Like telling would be like “I'm
awesome. I'm hardworking.” I'm this, I'm that. As opposed to saying, “My
family is what's most important to me. I have a niece who I love. I'm in a
club soccer league and it's like the most fun I have all week.” And that's
showing. That's being like these are the things about me, these are the
details of me. These are the things that matter to me. This is what moves
me. This is what I think is hilarious. That's better than just listing adjectives.
Because I'm just suspicious of it. Like if you say I'm a cool dude, I'm an
easygoing dude. I'm like really, are you? Are you an easygoing dude? I
have nothing to go on.

Marni: Show me that you are. No it's true. You want to give a woman a
picture, a visual.

J: Yeah a picture.

Marni: So I always say that when you are sharing to incorporate the word
because into your conversation because it gets you to inject emotion into
whatever you've just said. So if I say I like dogs. That's just a statement.
Okay but show me you like dogs. I like dogs because I like when they come
up and rub their bodies against my legs. That's showing that I really
actually do like dogs. They have something about the dog that they actually
enjoy. So same thing for online.

J: Yes, what you said that's really great, the idea of painting a picture. I
think that's a really great thing to sort of hold on to. My profile when I wrote
mine, I mean this is men talking about women but the guys that I liked the
best and who I had the best exchanges with, they had the same
compliment for my profile over and over again. In my self-summary I made
the statement that I loved to entertain and I have this really really great little
window seat in my kitchen and I talked about that window seat and the
people who sit there and the meals that I make.

Marni: That's cool.

  

J: And the men that I talked to that I liked the best all said that like I painted
this picture and it made them want to know me. And I think that that goes
for both sexes that like if you paint a picture, yeah if you paint an accurate
picture of who you are when you're at your best, women are going to want
to see that.

Marni: Absolutely because then they can see themselves in your life.

J: Totally.

Marni: So I actually do want to go back to pictures first then.

J: Sure, yeah.

Marni: Again you want to like the guy but not only like what he looks like.
Because you want to be attracted to him in some way. It doesn't mean that
you only go after good-looking guys. Everybody has different levels of
attraction. So what could help guys in taking their profile picture? What are
things that you have not liked in their pictures?

J: Sure. Well I mean just in general, if you have a girlfriend or even a guy
friend, it's good to take pictures for the occasion. It's good to take pictures
for the site. And even like you don't want them to look to stagey, but men
often don't have really good pictures of themselves. So do a little photo-
shoot and get pictures. It's good. Smiling is good.

Marni: Really?

J: Yeah.

Marni: Looking like straight to camera and smiling.

J: Yeah. Maybe not in a posed photo but in more candid ones is really
great.

Marni: With your friends.

J: With your friends, yeah.

Marni: Enjoying yourself. But what about in a posed photo? Like do you like
a guy in a pose photo that's staring straight ahead and smiling at you?
  

J: I mean, that's what my boyfriend had.

Marni: Really?

J: Yeah, and he looked like— and I remember this distinctly—he looked like
the person behind the camera had just made him laugh.

Marni: Okay.

J: And that's what

Marni: So it was natural.

J: Yeah it was very natural. Yeah the pose, the super pose like obviously
headshot ones, terrible, terrible, terrible. Yeah the picture should feel
natural. Guys have a little bit more latitude to put sort of quirkier pictures
but you got to be careful like I've seen profiles with guys where they're
wearing t-shirts that have like really offensive statements. Or they're like
giving the bird or their tongues hanging out. You're like well if you're not
really an adult if you can't sort of rein it in. There is room for fun. Pictures
that are of a guy doing some kind of sport or like with his friends, or being
kind of goofy, that's great to a degree. But you need like a clear shot of the
face, preferably smiling in a natural way.

Marni: I think so, too. Because I have a lot of guys that I work with, they'll
show me their profile and they have like 18 pictures of them with a horse or
like 20 pictures of them…

J: With like a motorcycle. Yeah no this is bad. The pictures of the shit that
you're into, like pictures of motorcycles, pictures of people skiing, like I
don't care. I'm a girl, I don't care. If I was that into motorcycles, I would be
on some motorcycle site looking for a motorcycle dude. If I was that into
skiing, that's how I would be finding my man. Like I don't want to see your
pictures of like you a tiny speck on the beach in Thailand. I get that you're
international and you travel but Christ, like I…

Marni: Just say it in one line in your profile.

J: Yeah.
  

Marni: So what would you recommend for pictures? Like if you were to give
guidelines to people and say okay here's what you should do for pictures.
Yeah five max, one

J: Yeah I think five max, I think that's really good. I think that there's room
for one silly picture if you have a pet that is really important to you. Or
something that's important. You have room for one shot that is not about
you because you're a guy and you can get away with that. But you need to
have one that is a clear shot of your face preferably smiling. You need to
have a full body shot. The pictures like at least two of them need to be
good quality. There are a lot of Hipstamaticky shots on there. There are a
lot of scan shots. Sometimes guys, every single picture, they'll have
sunglasses on. I can't see your eyes. I don't know who you are like that's
terrible.

Marni: Yeah.

J: I am on the fence about pictures with children. I think that it's a little
manipulative. It's a little bit like “Hey girl I like kids.” I don't care if it's theirs.

Marni: What if it's their kids?

J: Even that I don't like.

Marni: Really?

J: Yeah because I feel like I think online sites are sordid places for the most
part. Like I was there for like with an innocent purpose to a degree. And I
don't believe that everyone else is on there like that. So I never put pictures
of my nieces. My niece and nephew are really important to me but I didn't
put any of their pictures on there because it grosses me out. Like I don't
think it's a place for children's faces. I mean that's my personal belief that
kids need to be protected with their online presence because

Marni: Because they can't protect themselves.

J: Because they can't protect themselves.

Marni: Right.
  

J: So I mean I've seen pictures of men with their kids and I'm like “Well
that's your life.”

Marni: Yeah you're taking a picture of your life.

J: Yeah you’re showing picture of your life.

Marni: Should they have pictures with other people or is it always…

J: I don't know. I don't really like that. I mean if it's guys and their dude
friends, that's cool. Like you're like you got friends, that's fine whatever. I
don't put pictures of my girlfriend just because I don't know if they want to
be out there. I think it's different for men. Pictures with girls are not good
unless it's your sister. Pictures with your sister are awesome. I love those. I
love a man and his sister.

Marni: How do you know it's a sister?

J: When it says and you can like tell they look alike or like there's
something about or a clue that's your sister. But any other woman like even
if it says “my good friend,” whatever, you're like, “Is that really your good
friend? Just don't do it.

Marni: It’s a turn-off for you?

J: Yeah and even worse than that is the cropped picture where you can see
the girl's shoulder or arm. Find a different picture. Just don't raise the
question.

Marni: I agree. I agree. The only thing I don't really agree with is the
children. I do respect that they can't really protect themselves. But I feel for
guys who want to show their lives and they think that's the best way. It's
different for maybe for paid sites because it kind of limits certain people that
may come along. But I want guys to always show their lives. I just don't
want them to, as you said, like 18 pictures of a motorcycle and they're not
even on it. Or like, them in the same shirt posing in different directions. Pick
the best one and get rid of bad ones.
  

J: Totally yeah. You shouldn't use more than one picture from the same
sort of setting.

Marni: Exactly.

J: And boozy pictures, you got room for one boozy I'm in a bar with my
friends.

Marni: Absolutely.

J: You don't want a lot. You don't want more than one of I'm partying
picture.

Marni: Exactly. But also it depends what you're also looking for.

J: Yeah that's true, that's true. Sorry you're right. Sorry.

Marni: Yeah because if you are younger and you're going for younger girls,
that's a lifestyle that you want to be part of. Absolutely.

J: I'm being…

Marni: You're being old.

J: I'm being a stick in the mud. I am. It's true.

Marni: No but you're answering for you, so I love . . . .

J: Yeah well I mean I'm answering for men who are interested in having
significant relationships.

Marni: Yeah exactly. But it doesn't mean that every person that you go on a
date with or reach out to that you have to evaluate them in that way saying
“Do I want to marry that guy?”

J: No, no.

Marni: It's not that stressful and that's not what you're thinking.

J: No it's easy breezy. Yeah.

  

Marni: Yeah it's light and easy. Okay. So let's look at this other self-
summary here. “I’m an appreciative, straightforward guy trying to find
someone to share my life with, passionate and affectionate relationship.”

J: Well it's funny because I just made all the statements about don't talk
about what you're looking for but I think it's a lot about tone, like a man's
voice. That first paragraph he says “I'm a pretty straightforward guy” and
then the subsequent sentences really reveal that he is a straight shooter
and I believe it. I'm like this guy is genuinely looking for a girlfriend.

Marni: Yeah.

J: So I go against what I said in the previous statement. Yeah he's telling it

straight and I appreciate that. Like if this guy reached out to me and I read
that first paragraph, I would totally keep reading.

Marni: Really?

J: Yeah.

Marni: Okay. And then if you kept reading to the next part.

J: Reading that whole first thing, I would be like nice guy, I'm bored but I
will keep reading. Because I, more than anything for me, I'm looking for a
nice human being who is kind. But on top of that, I need someone smart
and fun and exciting.

Marni: Yeah, I find that boring as well.

J: So at this point, that's me, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and
keep reading. But like mental note, I would prefer a little more spark in my
self-summary.

Marni: Yeah there's nothing fun because I'm reading ahead.

J: Oh you read ahead?

Marni: Yeah I read like I am really good at listening and I usually spell
things correctly. I am marginally good at cooking. Again it's just listing off all
the things that you are.
  

J: It starts to get a little pathetic.

Marni: And redundant, yeah. And exactly what you said, it's boring. There's
no energy behind it. It's great, he's a nice person. It's the same thing as a
guy who just says the good things and doesn't really show who he is when
approaching in public. Like he's always asking questions, instead of
revealing information about himself so that he won't rock the boat or be
what she doesn't want him to be.

J: Yeah that's true.

Marni: This is everything, everything's nice, it's all nice. It's wonderful. You
like a lot of things, you like watching movies, reading fiction but you're not
really telling anybody who you are, which is what we're talking about
before.

J: Right.

Marni: Actually you know what, let's read the one that I found the other day
that somebody wrote to me. I'll have this included as well. But it's man of
adventure. “I like a girl who can have fun, pack her bags at short notice,
and travel the world on her expense. LOL. Care to join me?” I'll show the
rest of this. But like both you and I were like oh that is so cheesy. It's really
the care to join me part that really got me. I'm like oh it's not real. It's so
surface level and cheesy. And I forget what your feedback was but you
said—what did you say?

J: Well his self-summary man of adventure, and then the first sentence is I
like a girl … that's not a self-summary. You're already making demands.
You're already saying what you want in a woman. Also that who could have
fun, pack her bags at short notice and travel the world. Like when was the
last time you packed your bags and traveled the world on short notice?
That is another pet peeve of mine when guys are like, I like a girl who's as
comfortable in sweats as she is in an evening gown. I'm like fuck you, when
was the last time you were in a tux? Like you think you're some James
Bond. That just sounds so so false.

Marni: It's very cliché.

  

J: And then who's willing to travel the world on her own expense, so you're
a cheap bastard? What? No! And then, LOL, just don't use LOL. Just don't.

Marni: I agree. It's like when a guy talks to you and he's talking at you
rather than talking to you. That's what it feels like.

J: Yes, talking at you. It's just gross.

Marni: I didn't like it either. I think I find it very cheesy and I gave that
feedback to the guy who had written to me. Because the thing is that
underneath, because I did actually interact with these guys, I know that's
not who he is. And like even the guys that I coach, one on one, who I work
with, and talk to and have great conversations with, as soon as we go into
like mock pick-up mode, or mock date-mode, they become this entirely
different person because they think they're supposed to be saying
something else, something grander, establishing their value and instead of
being themselves who they've been for the previous half an hour with me
on the phone, they become this guy, the man of adventure using this
profile. So again, talking at women is probably not a good thing. So let's try
and find a good one. How do you get to the next page?

J: Oh all the way down. And then oh wow that's a lot.

Marni: Look at this. What to say! I work in a Medical Marijuana field.

J: Whoa.

Marni: And he wrote filed as a bud-tender. See he's high. He can't even
write anything. There’s a spelling error.

J: Are you trying to find a good one? Are you trying…

Marni: I want to find a good one and the truth is it's hard to find. What about
this statement here? “I travel quite a bit. Unfortunately not internationally
and not for fun as much as I'd like to. But if everything goes well next year,
I'll get to travel a bit for work in a much more fun environment to places I
have not been.”

J: It's kind of boring.

  

Marni: Yeah. Right. That is the thing. There isn't a lot of energy. I wish that
they gave people who signed up for dating sites, like writing classes. Does
anything stick out to you? Tell me which ones stick out to you.

J: Okay. He says “Hi, let me sum myself up for you in one complete
sentence. Absolutely!” That's fun.

Marni: I like it because it means you're positive.

J: “I am a person. I'm charming and funny. I am humble. I am much too

nice for my own good sometimes. Okay, slightly more than sometimes.”
Yeah I mean, I don't like that because I'm like I'm too nice for my own good.
People who are too nice for their own good don't know that they are. This is
nice. “I'm convinced that there is an endless supply of fun, art, passion, and
love in the world. And I am here for more of those good things.” In that
sentence you know what this guy is. Like he has an appetite for life and
that's exciting and fun. I really like the end. “I'm not convinced that capital
letters are important for casual Internet discourse. I am not here to date a
punctuation Nazi.” So the whole thing is in lower case and so he ends his
self-summary with explaining, that which is weird and charming and fun.

Marni: It has energy behind it.

J: Yeah it has energy and it's

Marni: It would appeal to some people.

J: Yeah and he did the macro and then he did the micro. The macro being
like his love of passion and fun and the micro was his little issue with
capitalization.

Marni: Yeah.

J: Yeah it's fine.

Marni: I thought it was really cute. Definitely. It's fun. You would definitely
be intrigued to find out more and see. Okay actually let's do one more and
then
  

J: Well that one this is really common is men will start their self-summary
with saying where they're from. That's not the worst thing in the world but
it's a snoozer when guys open with where they're from.

Marni: Okay. I like ones that are a little bit more fun.

J: Yeah and we haven't found a super fun one yet.

Marni: Just here to kill some time. I hate when guys do that.

J: Yeah that's terrible.

Marni: Then get off, go kill some time doing something adventurous and
fun. See what we're trying to show you is actually there aren't a lot to
choose from. See I thought this one was awesome. I am an asshole. This
one's on my site, so I'll send you a

J: Sure. I mean that's fine. I've seen that before. I've seen a couple that are
like “I absolutely hate traveling internationally. I'm not interested in
adventure. I think sex is lame.” Like the antithesis of what everybody

Marni: Yeah. It shows that somebody has a sense of humor as well. That's
why I'm drawn to things like that.

J: I think what that really points to is that women do not want to be online
dating. They don't.

Marni: Right, well neither do men.

J: I mean yeah except men are more prone to like looking at porn online
and trolling online. Women I think for a lot of women it's like it's a bummer.
It's really depressing to be online dating.

Marni: I know someone who really loves it.

J: Really? All women that I know are like it's sort of a last ditch effort. So
when a guy in his profile is aware, like they are also sort of on that page,
where they're like this is really dumb but I'm a fun person and so that
means maybe there's another fun person out there and we can be fun
together.
  

Marni: Yeah and you can see my sarcasm.

J: Yeah and that always appeals to me. But on the flip side I think it's really
a bummer when people talk down about online dating when they have a
bad attitude about it. Because you're like well yes this is not an ideal
scenario. Like I wish that we met at a grocery store or in a book club or I
mean no, that's not how I wish we met. Or at a wedding, I wish we met in
person somewhere fun but this is the situation. And so let's get on board.

Marni: Let's enjoy. Let's have a good time while we're doing it.

J: Yeah.

Marni: Okay let's try to find one really good one.

J: Okay.

Marni: Yeah see it's all the same thing. So I'm going to click a picture of this
one because it did catch your attention but these are examples of boring
ones. I think where it's like I did this. And it's not doing what you were
talking about before which is painting a picture, expanding on a story
saying why you like things. But what was the way that you expressed it
before. Oh show me. Show me that you do.

J: Show, don't tell. I would give him points for like he talks about the
farmer's market is something that he does regularly. I would just say that if
you go around and you look at other people's profiles, there are certain
things that everybody says like everyone talks about international travel
and how much they want to be traveling more. That's boring. Everybody
wants to travel. Like you're not saying anything and that's not specific to
you. Unless it is

Marni: Unless that's who you are. But if you do want to travel, you want to
show people that you're not like a bump on a log. So what you said before
about showing. If he said the next place on my list to go to is Japan.

J: I would prefer more than that, I just went to Japan and this is not a story
but like just a clever turn of phrase or like a very brief anecdote about
something about your last trip and why it was remarkable, why it moved
  

you, why it was exciting. I typically don't like it when guys are like this is my
next one because that's it, great, that's what you want in the future but tell
me something that's happened to you already that has helped shape who
you are.

Marni: Exactly. That's like a magic sentence right there because I think that
that's a really important statement to make. You're saying show me what
has made you and what makes you right now.

J: And that's a really hard question to ask but that women find that sexy
men who know themselves. It's really hot. My boyfriend is really hot
because he's like that.

Marni: Absolutely. My husband is super hot because he's like that. That's
why I like him because most of the guys that I dated before didn't and I felt
stronger than them because I knew myself better and I was happier with
myself. So it is what we're attracted to.

J: Absolutely.

Marni: One little tip before we go into talking about emails is I always tell
guys to go online and sign up as a woman before they start dating online
just to see what other guys are putting out there and kind of see who they
would be drawn to in a way. And also see what women get thrown back at
them because I don't think guys realize how attacked we get especially if
you have a pretty picture up. You do, you get attacked. Like one of my
friends went online, she's very beautiful. She put up a picture, she had 75
guys write to her in a day. And she only replied back to one. And she didn't
write to anybody during that time that she's online dating. She ended up
getting into a relationship with that one guy but it didn't end up being a
good relationship but it lasted for a long time and that was the relationship.
But women do get attacked so simple tip for a lot of guys, go online, sign
up as a girl. Pick a picture from online or take somebody else's picture
that's a friend of yours that gives you permission and go online as a woman
and just see what it's like on the other side. And browse through some
men's profiles to see what's out there. And then I want to talk about a few
  

simple notes about the first email in reaching out. So how do you like guys
to write you?

J: I like a brief first email that shouldn't say anything about your body ever.
Don't mention the body. I think I said this before that that mentions
something about your profile and asks a question about something specific
in your profile. So I like sort of like it's like a three-punch thing. It's a
greeting, hey whatever, hi how are you, whatever the intro is. Then a
statement of an observation about your profile and then a question about
your profile and then signed with the name. So like yeah.

Marni: Can you tell if a guy has taken longer than 30 seconds to write the
email?

J: Totally, yeah.

Marni: Okay.

J: And even like guys are looking at a lot of stuff. So like if he hasn't taken
the longest time to write the email but it's not that I'm interested that he took
a lot of time to write it. It's that he looked at my whole profile, that it's not my
picture that is interesting. Like if it's not like hey or even like pretty smile or
whatever, I'd love to talk, that's like the worst. No you don't want to talk.
You would like to fuck. That's what you would like. And even if as a guy
that's all you want, like I mean, I don't know, maybe the women you want
respond to that kind of thing. Yeah.

Marni: You do not. Okay. So here's the thing I always tell guys if it takes
you longer than a minute to write your intro email, leave it and come back
to it because it's not going to pop out of your head. I can tell when
somebody's taking way too long to put together a proper email. And I
actually don't like that because it's not genuine or real. They're looking for
perfection and that's difficult to achieve. And usually they don't get the
response back that they want. So your advice is keep it short.

J: Yeah.
  

Marni: Have some sort of intro. It doesn't have to be “Hi my name is Bob”
because you know what their name is. It can be something like some sort
of joke or something, witty or something, smart that they're saying
observation, I saw on the profile, I really like that thing too. Here's the story
about something that I did and then close it off.

J: Yeah I also don't like when guys are like a little bit about me in their initial
email because I can look at your profile for that. And women, we'd like an
honest guy. We like a sincere guy. But we don't like a needy guy. We don't
like an over-sharer. So if your first email is like a big chunky paragraph like
that, that is a turn-off.

Marni: I don't want to read that. I have this one girlfriend and well she's
getting married now but she was single for a long time and she had like her
mother's friend was going to set her up with this nephew who was a doctor.
And she was so excited because he was a doctor and that was great. And
he reached out to her and they talked for like—no they didn't reach out to
her over the phone. He reached out to her over email and he wrote her like
a three-page introductory email giving everything about him, his past
relationships. Like everything that he went through in high school basically
that he had acne when he was young, like everything. And right away, she
was like I do not want to even see him. I will because it's my mother's friend
but there is not a chance in hell that I would ever date this person. Maybe
because he threw up on her. He gave her too much information. Let her
find out those things about you. You ruined the whole relationship. You just
gave it to her right there. So I think those are great points about the initial
emails and what you said in the very beginning about I want a handful of
emails, short exchanges, and then let's get to it, let's go on a date and stop
having a pen pal. There's no need for it. And I actually have some really
good examples of emails that you can send. Whoever's listening, I don't
want this to be a template for you but just really good examples of sample
emails that guys can send that are light and fun and they're from one of my
past clients who we did a lot of work together to get to that place with those
emails. But he became really good at it once he got in the routine of not
giving me shit. So thank you so much for doing this with me. I think that
was great and this turned out really well. Alright, so thanks guys. If you
  

want to check out more information about me, there should be a link below.
And yeah you can find out more information about me. Okay, bye.