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CAN bus +/- taps for MFD install

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keithwbloom · Premium Member  

Joined Apr 4, 2005
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4,536 Posts

Discussion Starter
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#1
·
Jun 16, 2013

I have a theory. I picked up a secondhand MFD Navi G version, and I suspect I can get it to send track info
to FIS through CAN bus because the Monsoon unit did that I replaced with the MFD.

The Kufatec harness I acquired with the Navi is a Delta to MFD adapter, but seems to be configured for early
B5.5s and not later 2004+ and 2005 models with increased CAN bus integration.

Case in point, the CAN bus signal driven water temp gauge in my W8 cluster worked without modification in
my 2004 GLX chassis.

So to test my theory, I want to connect the CAN+ and CAN- pins in the data connector to tapping points
under driver knee panel. I have a couple of questions.

1. Where is a pair of suitable CAN bus wires to piggy back on?

2. Is it a simple + to + and - to - connection? Or do I need to put head unit +/- into series with piggybacked
signal pair, e.g. + to - and - to +?

3. Does anyone know if there is a CAN +/- in the later B5.5 Monsoon head unit connector?

Cheers,

Keith

Sent from AutoGuide.com App

B8.5 S5 Cabriolet 3.0T DSG, B8 A4 Quattro 2.0T Tip, B7 S4 Cabriolet 4.2 6MT, 8P A3 S-Line 2.0T Tip, B5.5 SC/IC 30V V6
5MT

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soundguybob · Registered  
S Joined Oct 8, 2002
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4,020 Posts

#2
·
Jun 16, 2013

Keith, I'm going to do some digging as soon as I have time, but you may have luck finding this info over on
tdiclub...

So, the monsoon HU sent info to the FIS, but the new Navi currently does not?

How do you know that the monsoon HU sent the info on CANBus and not another method?

IIRC, there are lines that should tie the HU and cluster directly together on the red connector of the cluster.
As interested as I am about discovering if the Navi can "talk" to the cluster over CANBus, it may be simplet
to just add the wiring to the red connector instead...

As far as connecting to CANBus, it's actually a High and Low signal, not + and -. All High lines are tied
together, and all Low lines are tied together.

I LOVE MY

1998 Passat B5 1.8T, Colrado Red, Hids

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keithwbloom · Premium Member  

Joined Apr 4, 2005
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4,536 Posts

Discussion Starter
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#3
·
Jun 16, 2013

According to the unoffical VW MFD Navi FAQ forum the VW MFD RadioNavigation v G included conversion
According to the unoffical VW MFD Navi FAQ forum, the VW MFD RadioNavigation v.G included conversion
to Transport Protocol TP1.6 in combination with VW Gateway Box will apparently talk to instrument cluster
CAN, MFW via CAN, Gala via CAN, ABS via CAN. Not quite sure why Navi needs to talk to ABS, unless it is
getting steering position sensor values to aid in turn by turn navigation display.

I suspect that my 2004 was getting Monsoon programming via CAN bus because the MFW signals are also
can bus, and the MFW was talking to the head unit for volume and track controls, so the connection is
logical. 2002-2003 MFSW button modules are not compatible with my CCM, probably because they do not
use CAN bus for signal transfer. I found that out during my Audi S-Line tiptronic to MFSW conversion
project. My MY2004.5 Passat definitely uses CAN bus for MFSW signals, and most likely does the same with
horn and cruise control functions as well.

The manufacture dates of the Navi v.G and my Passat are within a month of each other, I would suspect the
Blaupunkt folks would be making a unit suitable for the current production run to offer as OE accessory or
even OE on Passats for Euro market, where Navi was offered as a factory installed option.

I have feelers out on VWNavi.com site as well, but my experience points have me quarantined there for the

time being, so I thought I might bend an ear or two here. It makes sense to me that it would be doing many
things via CAN bus since my Passat has increased CAN bus capacities, but I was unsure how to connect. I
believe you are correct in the CAN hi and CAN lo description, I have also run across that before in
development of Bluetooth replacement for VW OnStar systems, and decided not to touch it, but I know it is
there in many systems on my chassis.

I am going to give it a shot. If I can get a pin-out on the Monsoon version in my 2004.5 B5.5, I am guessing
there is a CAN hi and CAN lo pair in there that can be tapped directly. If I am successful, I think it may
complete a number if presently disconnected features of the Navi system head unit I installed last weekend.

Since my pin-out of the Navi v.G came from a diagram directly ont he case of the head unit, I am first going
to have a look at the Monsoon DoubleDIN on my workbench downstairs. I'll share all I find.

Cheers,

Keith

B8.5 S5 Cabriolet 3.0T DSG, B8 A4 Quattro 2.0T Tip, B7 S4 Cabriolet 4.2 6MT, 8P A3 S-Line 2.0T Tip, B5.5 SC/IC 30V V6
5MT

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keithwbloom · Premium Member  

Joined Apr 4, 2005
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4,536 Posts

Discussion Starter
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#4
·
Jun 16, 2013
 ,

What I know I know and what I know I don't know

Model information and pin-out diagrams on Navi v.G:

Connector sockets on back of Navi v.G:

Model information on the Monsoon Premium 6 DoubleDIN unit I replaced with Navi v.G:

Connector socket on back of Premium 6 DuobleDIN:

Need to track down a pin-out diagram for 3B7 035 180 G. Apparently, there are other 3B7 035 180 versions
out there, I have seen "C" cited in descriptions. It would be super sano if the "G" version in hte 3B7 035 180
Premium 6 was so designated because it included the same CAN bus protocols that the 3B0 035 191 v.G
did. I would be guy smiley for like a month.

B8.5 S5 Cabriolet 3.0T DSG, B8 A4 Quattro 2.0T Tip, B7 S4 Cabriolet 4.2 6MT, 8P A3 S-Line 2.0T Tip, B5.5 SC/IC 30V V6
5MT

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Polo-mk3 · Registered
Joined Jan 11, 2013
·
6 Posts
P
#5
·
Jul 1, 2013

You really need to start checking your PM's on ukpassats

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Polo-mk3 · Registered
P Joined Jan 11, 2013
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6 Posts

#6
·
Jul 1, 2013

The Premium 6 uses more features though can-bus for stuff like Dimmer/switched ignition/diagnostics

The MFD1 needs the ABS signal for GPS, if the unit cant find the speed signal then it thinks the car is
stationery.

You will need to run a few new wires also:

K-wire

ignition switch
ignition switch

illumination

Installing single-DIN radio in place of double-DIN Premium 6 - TDIClub Forums <- look here for more
information

You will also need to wire the can-bus to the 26 pin connector and then refresh the can-gateway, that
should kick all the can-bus stuff in working correctly.

NOTE: Ignore the red stuff on the photo.

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keithwbloom · Premium Member  

Joined Apr 4, 2005
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4,536 Posts

Discussion Starter
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#7
·
Jul 1, 2013

Polo-mk3 said: 

You really need to start checking your PM's on ukpassats

I do. I am not receiving message waiting emails though, perhaps they are getting stuck in my spam filter.
B8.5 S5 Cabriolet 3.0T DSG, B8 A4 Quattro 2.0T Tip, B7 S4 Cabriolet 4.2 6MT, 8P A3 S-Line 2.0T Tip, B5.5 SC/IC 30V V6
5MT

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Polo-mk3 · Registered
P Joined Jan 11, 2013
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6 Posts

#8
·
Jul 1, 2013

Also is this what you are looking for?

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keithwbloom · Premium Member  

Joined Apr 4, 2005
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4,536 Posts

Discussion Starter
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#9
·
Jul 21, 2013

Polo-mk3 said: 

Also is this what you are looking for?

View attachment 10456

Yes. This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Ben.

Now I can have a better look at what the Kufatec harness is doing with the CAN related connectors on the
Passat wiring harness I suspect it is ideally configured for an earlier B5/5 5 harness and not set up for the
Passat wiring harness. I suspect it is ideally configured for an earlier B5/5.5 harness and not set up for the
later, more CAN-enabled chassis MYs. Ever since I plugged it in, my brake module coding is whack, 000000.
And today I ran a full VCDS scan and found intermittent implausible RH ABS wheel speed sensor [WSS]
readings. IIRC, the Kufatec harness makes a GALA signal wire from one or both WSSs, and may actually be
bridging the signals in the connector. No bueno.

In the green cluster connector, there are actually three CAN pairs, so I am a little lost to each pair's specific
function, and whether either of the other two pairs might be better suited to link up to CAN pair in the data
connector on the back of the MFD.

I know, I know. First world problems.

B8.5 S5 Cabriolet 3.0T DSG, B8 A4 Quattro 2.0T Tip, B7 S4 Cabriolet 4.2 6MT, 8P A3 S-Line 2.0T Tip, B5.5 SC/IC 30V V6
5MT

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NoHollyWoodEnding · Registered
N Joined Mar 25, 2009
·
601 Posts

#10
·
Jul 21, 2013

Should have just bought a D version like I did

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keithwbloom · Premium Member  

Joined Apr 4, 2005
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4,536 Posts

Discussion Starter
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#11
·
Jul 22, 2013

NoHollyWoodEnding said: 

Should have just bought a D version like I did

Actually, I believe the 2004.5 MY Passat has a host of CAN bus enabled features that makes the G a better
solution if connected correctly. Even though the D setup is well documented, I could find not instances of
anyone with a later 3BG/B5.5 chassis with CAN bus features using a D and an FIS display successfully
without dumbing the CAN interface down through a TMC box. With the expanded CAN features in the
2004.5+ MY Passats, I think the G version should be plug and play.
2004.5 MY Passats, I think the G version should be plug and play.

My installation frustrations to date now seem to be the result of the Kufatec connector not passing through
the CAN connections present in the Premium 6 G harness. In addition, a host of other connections are
present or directed in the Kufatec instructions that are probably not advised for my MY chassis.

Search Community 
From the diagram posted by Polo-mk3 above, the Kufatec connector is missing pins for the 9,10, 13 and 14
terminals in the II connector. That 9 and 10 are CAN+ and CAN- is most likely a large part of the problem.
Another connection conspicuously missing is the radio control signal in position 13.

Going to dig into this some more before now that I know the pinouts on the Premium 6 G before I modify
the Kufatec harness and install again.

Need to find the pinouts of the 12-pin connectors III and IV as well. :wrench:

B8.5 S5 Cabriolet 3.0T DSG, B8 A4 Quattro 2.0T Tip, B7 S4 Cabriolet 4.2 6MT, 8P A3 S-Line 2.0T Tip, B5.5 SC/IC 30V V6
5MT

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keithwbloom · Premium Member  

Joined Apr 4, 2005
·
4,536 Posts

Discussion Starter
·
#12
·
Jul 22, 2013

Complete Premium 6 Pinouts

Found it!

Multi-pin connector I
1 - Rear right loudspeaker, positive

2 - Front right loudspeaker, positive

3 - Front left loudspeaker, positive

4 - Rear left loudspeaker, positive

5 - Rear right loudspeaker, negative

6 - Front right loudspeaker, negative

7 - Front left loudspeaker, negative

8 - Rear left loudspeaker, negative

Multi-pin connector II
9 - CAN bus, positive

10 - CAN bus, negative

11 - Muting (for telephone operation)

12 - Battery negative, terminal 31

13 R di ON l i ii
13 - Radio ON, control wire positive

14 - Alarm contact (USA only)

15 - Battery positive (terminal 30)

16 - Anti-theft system control signal, SAFE (terminal 30)

Multi-pin connector III

1 - Not assigned

2 - Not assigned

3 - Not assigned

4 - Not assigned

5 - Not assigned

6 - Telephone input signal, TEL negative

7 - Not assigned

8 - Not assigned

9 - Not assigned

10 - Not assigned

11 - Not assigned

12 - Telephone input signal, TEL positive

Multi-pin connector IV

1 - Headphone audio signal output, right, positive

2 - CD changer, left and right channels, earth

3 - Headphone audio signal output, audio earth

4 - CD changer, terminal 30 voltage supply (+)

5 - Headphone audio signal output, left, positive

6 - CD changer, DATA OUT (data from radio)

7 - Not assigned

8 - CD changer, left channel, CD/L

9 - CD changer, right channel, CD/R

10 - CD changer, control signal

11 - CD changer, DATA IN (data to radio)

12 - CD changer, CLOCK (internal check protocol for data flow monitoring)

B8.5 S5 Cabriolet 3.0T DSG, B8 A4 Quattro 2.0T Tip, B7 S4 Cabriolet 4.2 6MT, 8P A3 S-Line 2.0T Tip, B5.5 SC/IC 30V V6
5MT

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keithwbloom · Premium Member  

Joined Apr 4, 2005
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4,536 Posts

Discussion Starter
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#13
·
Jul 22, 2013
(Edited)

i l i
MFD Navi Complete Pinout

26-pin connector for navigation sensors

4 - Terminal 15 (ignition)

5 - Left speed sensor output

6 - Low frequency driving instructions, positive

13 - CAN bus, high

17 - Reversing light switch

18 - Right speed sensor output

19 - Low frequency driving instructions, negative

20 - Low frequency driving instructions, screening

26 - CAN bus, low

11-pin connector for RGB connection

1 - Low frequency, negative

2 - Low frequency, left

3 - Low frequency, right

4 - Vertical/horizontal synchronisation

5 - Video, negative

6 - PAL/NTSC

7 - Video, on

8 - Blue, input

9 - Green, input

10 - Red, input

11 - Earth for screening

Multi-pin connectors I, II and III

Multi-pin connector I

1 - Rear left line out, LR

2 - Rear right line out, RR

3 - Line out, negative

4 - Front left line out, LF

5 - Front right line out, RF

6 - Switched positive for sound amplifier

7 - Telephone input signal, telephone positive

8 - Time display, CLOCK (internal check protocol for data flow monitoring)

9 - Time display, DATA (exchange of data for dash panel with a clock)

10 - Time display, ENA (monitors data flow and feedback of successful data transfer)

 p y, ( )
11 - Remote control

12 - Telephone input signal, telephone negative

13 - CD changer, DATA IN (data to radio)

14 - CD changer, DATA OUT (data from radio)

15 - CD changer, CLOCK (internal check protocol for data flow monitoring)

16 - CD changer, terminal 30 voltage supply, positive

17 - CD changer, control signal

18 - CD changer, left and right channels, negative

19 - CD changer, left channel, CD/L

20 - CD changer, right channel, CD/R

Multi-pin connector II, 8-pin

1 - Rear right loudspeaker, positive

2 - Rear right loudspeaker, negative

3 - Front right loudspeaker, positive

4 - Front right loudspeaker, negative

5 - Front left loudspeaker, positive

6 - Front left loudspeaker, negative

7 - Rear left loudspeaker, positive

8 - Rear left loudspeaker, negative

Multi-pin connector III, 8-pin

1 - Gala (speed dependant volume control)

2 - Telephone operation muting (contact is switched to negative)

3 - Self-diagnosis, K wire

4 - Connection for ignition-key-controlled switching on and off (S-contact)

5 - Anti-theft system control signal, SAFE

6 - Illumination (terminal 58b)

7 - Battery positive, terminal 30

8 - Battery negative, terminal 31

Now I can sort this thing out. Foolish of me to assume a Kufatec harness was plug and play. I should know
better.

B8.5 S5 Cabriolet 3.0T DSG, B8 A4 Quattro 2.0T Tip, B7 S4 Cabriolet 4.2 6MT, 8P A3 S-Line 2.0T Tip, B5.5 SC/IC 30V V6
5MT

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Entropia · Registered
E Joined Oct 11, 2013
·
15 Posts
#14
·
Oct 11, 2013

Hi Keith and others. I'm doing the exact same thing... I've got a 2005 3BG (B5.5) Variant with a Delta6
headunit. It's pretty similar to the Monsoon/Premium6, but still different. I checked that the current Delta6
HU basically only gets +12V, GND and CAN +/-. I've got a version G MFD ready to be installed but I realized
that I need to do more than just get a dumb connector adapter.

I'd like the MFD to behave like the current Delta6 (turns on when I turn on ignition and only turns off when I
remove the key from the lock). Any idea where I could steal the illumination, GALA and reversing light
signals?

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Entropia · Registered
E Joined Oct 11, 2013
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15 Posts

#15
·
Oct 11, 2013

I happened to stumble upon the Passat of The Month board, and I noticed Keith has indeed got his MFD to
work. Do you mind sharing how? I'm an EE deisgner by day job so I started designing a PCB that would
intercept CAN messages and output discrete signals based on them (illumination, GALA, ignition switch
state). Any other signals I need to take care of? Reversing light should be available on CAN as well, I'm just
not sure if it's in the Comfort bus (that's the one available behind the headunit). Do you think there would
be market for such a product (are people in need of such products and are they willing to pay 30 or 40
bucks for it?)

Earlier in this thread I saw some questions about multiple CAN bus connections at the instrument cluster.
These are indeed different busses going in the vehicle, namely the powertrain bus and the comfort bus.
Powertrain bus contains all the engine, gearbox, ABS/ESP etc. data and the comfort bus contains headunit,
power windows, power locks etc. The instrument cluster works as a gateway between these busses, passing
on things like vehicle speed from powertrain bus down to comfort bus.

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keithwbloom · Premium Member  

Joined Apr 4, 2005
·
4,536 Posts

Discussion Starter
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#16
·
Oct 11, 2013

Entropia said: 
I happened to stumble upon the Passat of The Month board, and I noticed Keith has indeed got his MFD to work. Do
you mind sharing how? I'm an EE deisgner by day job so I started designing a PCB that would intercept CAN
 messages and output discrete signals based on them (illumination, GALA, ignition switch state). Any other signals I need
to take care of? Reversing light should be available on CAN as well, I'm just not sure if it's in the Comfort bus (that's the
one available behind the headunit). Do you think there would be market for such a product (are people in need of such
products and are they willing to pay 30 or 40 bucks for it?)

Click to expand...
Earlier in this thread I saw some questions about multiple CAN bus connections at the instrument cluster These are

I will try to respond in full tomorrow. I have the connections mapped, I thought I had published, but
apparently I hadn't yet.

:wrench:

B8.5 S5 Cabriolet 3.0T DSG, B8 A4 Quattro 2.0T Tip, B7 S4 Cabriolet 4.2 6MT, 8P A3 S-Line 2.0T Tip, B5.5 SC/IC 30V V6
5MT

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Entropia · Registered
E Joined Oct 11, 2013
·
15 Posts

#17
·
Oct 12, 2013

Thanks, that would be awesome!

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Entropia · Registered
E Joined Oct 11, 2013
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15 Posts

#18
·
Oct 15, 2013

Keith, have you had a chance to pull your notes together?

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 Entropia · Registered
E Joined Oct 11, 2013
·
15 Posts

#19
·
Oct 25, 2013

I purchased a Quadlock to ISO adapter (universal type), FAKRA to ISO antenna adapter and tested the MFD
in the car. It powers on, FM reception and speakers work. Now I only need GALA, illumination and switched
B+. I read somewhere that you can get GALA from the instrument cluster but I'm doubtful if the signal is
present because the car is wired for CAN all around. Also, illumination can be stolen from the light switch
and switched B+ too (the light bulb icon in the light switch lights up when you turn the key to ON position).
This would eliminate the Delta6 turn off behaviour though (the unit will turn off when engine is shut down,
not only after key is removed from the ignition)...

Anyway, Keith, I'm curious to hear the specifics of your install!

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Entropia · Registered
E Joined Oct 11, 2013
·
15 Posts

#20
·
Nov 25, 2013

I have managed to install the MFD succesfully. I'm writing this to let anyone else attempting the same know
how it's done.

Basically you need four signals: ignition signal, illumination, GALA and K-bus diagnostics.

The easiest is illumination. Most guides seem to tell you to get it from the light switch but that's not the
best way to go. I got it from front passenger's seat heater control which is right next to the head unit. If you
don't have heated seats, you can take it from read window defroster or ESP switch. I don't remember the
wire color, but check with a volt meter against ground. Illumination is the one which varies between 0 and
12 volts (12 volts for maximum indicator brightness).

Next up ignition signal. Again most guides suggest tapping this from the light switch but why go splicing
wires when there's no need? The ignition signal is available very easily from the fuse/relay plate behind the
knee bolster. There's a big bolt connector labeled 75X that is switched B+. If you want to retain the original
ignition functionality, then you have to go right to the ignition lock itself (I haven't done this so I don't know
the details, but check with a volt meter and you'll be fine).

GALA is available even in CAN bus based Passats. It's pin number 3 on the blue connector of the instrument
cluster. Officially it's called "relay for intermittent windshild wiper" but really it's the thing we want. I checked
with an oscilloscope and I got roughly 55 Hz pulse train when speedo showed 50 km/h. I did the math and
this translates to 8 pulses per wheel revolution. You can get this from the aforementioned cluster connector,
or you can get it at the fuse/relay plate. In the relay plate you should have a big double-sized brown relay
with Audi part number on it. That's the intermittent windshield wiper relay. Speed signal is routed to it's pin
number 1 (labeled V for velocity). This wire is white with blue stripe.

Lastly the K-bus diagnostic wire. Your Passat has CAN diagnostics all around but the K-line is still available
for use at the OBD diagnostics plug. Run a wire from the MFD straight to the K-bus pin on the OBD
connector and you're done.

To finish off the installation, go to destination entry on the MFD and push "3" and "6" at the same time to
get version information. While in this screen push the Flag button to get to speed pulse and wheel
circumference menu and set those up. 8 for pulses per rev and 1935mm for 195/65R15 wheels (or whatever
you have).

Remember that if your MFD came from a Transporter you have to realign the gyro inside the unit. In Passat
it should be mounted in 5 degree position while in Transporter it's 35 degrees.

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