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The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice - (18 The Hospitalized Patient)
The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice - (18 The Hospitalized Patient)
The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice - (18 The Hospitalized Patient)
557
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
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558 • THE PSYCHIATRIC INTERVIEW IN CLINICAL PRACTICE
medical staff while at the same time maximizing the potential therapeu-
tic experience for the patient. The interviewer of the hospitalized pa-
tient must be attentive to a host of neuropsychiatric and psychiatric
syndromes, to the needs of the consulting physician, and to creation of
an alliance with a patient who is sick, tired, and distracted.
The hospital-based interviewer does not act with the same indepen-
dence as the outpatient clinician. As a consultant, the interviewer be-
comes a participating observer in a social network that includes the patient,
the referring physician, other physician consultants, social workers,
nurses, other staff, other patients, and the patient’s family and friends.
Each of these may have different—and conflicting—interests in the out-
come. Amid this complexity is the reality that although many hospital-
ized patients are too acutely ill to profit from interpretations of their
unconscious wishes or fears, the catastrophic nature of their illnesses
may render them able to profit from brief focused psychodynamically
based interventions.
PSYCHODYNAMICS
Psychodynamic Factors in the Patient
Patients exhibit an array of subjective and behavioral responses to ill-
ness and hospitalization. For most, hospitalization induces a regressive
but trusting dependency that allows them to accept and participate in
their medical care. Moderate amounts of sadness and anxiety are usual
and can generally be attributed to the narcissistic injury secondary to
the loss of their sense of invulnerability along with the loss of the ego-
Copyright © 2015. American Psychiatric Publishing. All rights reserved.
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
Created from teacherscollege-ebooks on 2023-02-18 18:08:23.
The Hospitalized Patient • 559
father for being a failure at business. He said that his mother had died
after his parents had divorced when he was 11 years old. He always
thought that she had died of a broken heart and believed that both of his
parents were weak. He felt that his own personal toughness had made
him “a player on the Street,” but now he feared that he was going to lose
it all. He was angry at everyone, but especially at his own weakness.
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
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560 • THE PSYCHIATRIC INTERVIEW IN CLINICAL PRACTICE
The consultant told the patient, “The hospital is making you depressed.
You can’t do the things that made you feel good, like work, sports, and
sex. You have spent your whole life as a successful, tough, and indepen-
dent man, and now you can’t even walk down the stairs by yourself.
Furthermore, this is particularly scary for a guy whose own father died
of heart failure and whose mother died of a broken heart.” The patient
laughed and said, “I don’t know which is worse, having heart surgery
or getting psychoanalyzed.” The interviewer smiled and the patient
Copyright © 2015. American Psychiatric Publishing. All rights reserved.
went on, “Don’t stop now, remember, I’m the tough guy.” The inter-
viewer continued, “Well, I was thinking about why they wanted you to
see me, that you weren’t going with the program. You’re feeling weak
and taking it out on everyone around you. The ironic thing is that the
more you refuse physical therapy, the longer you’ll be stuck in the hos-
pital.” The patient was intrigued, and more important, his behavior sub-
sequently improved.
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
Created from teacherscollege-ebooks on 2023-02-18 18:08:23.
The Hospitalized Patient • 561
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
Created from teacherscollege-ebooks on 2023-02-18 18:08:23.
562 • THE PSYCHIATRIC INTERVIEW IN CLINICAL PRACTICE
patient’s overall medical care. There are related goals, including the diag-
nosis and treatment of psychiatric disorders and the development of a re-
assuring alliance, but the hospital-based psychiatrist has a mandate to
answer the questions and concerns posed by the primary medical team.
The interviewer’s suggestions should reflect responsibility for the psy-
chiatric aspects of the case without intrusion into areas that are best han-
dled by medical and surgical colleagues. The consultant will be expected
to suggest an approach to the psychiatric aspects of the case at the time of
the interview, and the value of the suggestions will quickly be assessed
by the primary medical team, the patient, and the patient’s family.
Flexibility is essential in hospital interviews. Every variable—the pa-
tient, the consultation question, the frame of the interview, the medical
team—can vary in ways that the interviewer cannot control. This com-
bination of uncertainty and the need to respond to externally mandated
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
Created from teacherscollege-ebooks on 2023-02-18 18:08:23.
The Hospitalized Patient • 563
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
Created from teacherscollege-ebooks on 2023-02-18 18:08:23.
564 • THE PSYCHIATRIC INTERVIEW IN CLINICAL PRACTICE
comment on the lack of privacy and indicate that personal topics can be
postponed for a more opportune time. In many cases, however, it is the
interviewer who is most uncomfortable with the lack of privacy.
Although the hospital-based consultation requires the acquisition of
much data, alliance building is also crucial. To a greater extent than in
other psychiatric situations, the interviewer should be prepared to be
active, personally revealing, and accessible to both the patient and the
primary treating team. The judicious disclosure of personal life experi-
ences, humor, and countertransference hunches can help ally the inter-
viewer with the patient.
Countertransference
The hospital consultation is both especially challenging and especially
rewarding to the clinician. Many problems stem from the structure of
the interview. For example, privacy is thwarted because interviews fre-
quently take place within earshot of other patients. Sessions can be in-
terrupted at any time. Patients are often too ill to participate in lengthy
discussions. Loved ones may intrude both in the interview and in the
treatment plan, whereas in other cases relatives may avoid involvement
although they are desperately needed. Missing charts and absent pa-
tients thwart efficiency. It is often imperative to read through medical
charts and nursing notes, create an alliance with the primary treatment
team, and interact meaningfully with the patient’s relatives, all of which
requires considerable effort and flexibility.
In addition, hospitalized patients are sick. The complexity of their
medical problems may require significant medical knowledge outside of
psychiatry. For trainees, the need to consider areas outside of their new
Copyright © 2015. American Psychiatric Publishing. All rights reserved.
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
Created from teacherscollege-ebooks on 2023-02-18 18:08:23.
The Hospitalized Patient • 565
satisfied working with patients who do not profit from “deep” interpre-
tations but need a different sort of interview. The medical staff is even
less interested in interpretation, perhaps especially when their un-
conscious issues may have precipitated an incompletely thought-out
consultation or a patient–staff conflict. The result is that the psychody-
namic understanding of the clinician is crucial, but it is often used to
guide his treatment plan rather than as the theme of psychotherapeutic
discussion.
A psychiatrist was called to assess a frail, elderly woman who had re-
Copyright © 2015. American Psychiatric Publishing. All rights reserved.
fused the recommended home services. She had broken her arm in a
recent fall, and the staff was concerned that she would injure herself fur-
ther when she returned to her disorganized apartment. She was being
evaluated for an involuntary nursing home placement. The internist
had noted that the patient was isolated, stubborn, and quick to yell at
the staff.
When the interviewer entered the room, he noticed that the patient
was remarkably well groomed and that the only personal item in the
room was an old photograph of a young man. The interviewer intro-
duced himself, and the patient immediately asked if she could have
some ice water. After a trip to the ice machine, the psychiatrist handed
her the glass of water and said, “I hear that there is some sort of confu-
sion about your discharge.” The patient responded, “Haven’t they told
you? We all hate each other.” The psychiatrist smiled and said, “They
told me about some conflicts, but they didn’t mention you were from
the South.” The patient smiled and asked, “How’d you know I was from
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
Created from teacherscollege-ebooks on 2023-02-18 18:08:23.
566 • THE PSYCHIATRIC INTERVIEW IN CLINICAL PRACTICE
the South?” to which he replied, “Well, you have a drawl.” The inter-
viewer continued by asking, “What are you doing in New York?” The
patient smiled back and said that she had moved north when she got
married. The psychiatrist pointed at the photograph and asked if that
was her husband. She nodded and said that he had died the year before
and quickly added, “No one has recognized my accent in years. Where
are you from?” The interviewer told her, and the patient explained that
she was from a neighboring state. The interviewer asked, “How did
your husband die?” This led to a discussion of her husband and how his
illness had led his relatives to “circle like vultures and try to grab any-
thing that wasn’t nailed down. They’re as bad as the doctors and nurses
around here, who are just trying to make a buck off of Medicare.” The
interviewer said that it sounded like she missed her husband very much,
and the patient nodded. He then pointed out that it sounded like she
was trying to keep her apartment and her husband’s memories safe,
which might be why she would not accept home services. “But,” he con-
tinued, “if you don’t let someone in to clean up, you might not be al-
lowed to go back home.” The patient bristled and changed the subject,
but their conversation continued. Later in the interview, the patient
asked, “What would you do?” The psychiatrist paused and asked her
what she thought her husband would suggest. She smiled and said that
her husband would tell her to quit being so paranoid. They smiled, and
she later accepted home services after discharge.
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
Created from teacherscollege-ebooks on 2023-02-18 18:08:23.
The Hospitalized Patient • 567
ideas. This cluster can make the medically ill patient feel miserable and
unable to participate in his medical care. In such cases, the active, at-
tentive interviewer may be able to connect by asking the patient to talk
about his life. “As you look back, what are the things of which you are
especially proud? What are your disappointments and regrets?” The in-
terviewer can encourage the patient to tell stories and make use of pho-
tographs or letters. Afterward the interviewer may attempt to construct
an ego-syntonic life narrative. A typical one was given to a 40-year-old
woman who had recently been diagnosed with breast cancer: “I think
that you are refusing chemotherapy for a variety of reasons, but I think
the biggest may relate to your sense of responsibility. You want to be as
healthy as possible for as long as possible so that you can be there for
your children, and you have seen how debilitating the chemo can be.
And what’s so terrible is that you promised yourself that you would never
abandon your kids the way that your own mother abandoned you when
she divorced your father. You’re scared of being so sick that you can’t take
care of your kids, but the best chance you have of being there for your
kids may be to get the chemo, deal with the side effects, and try to fight
the illness.”
In addition to regression, medically ill patients often become demor-
alized. Some may express their discouragement indirectly, such as by
expressing sympathy for the doctor who works so hard with such poor
results. Such patients often protect themselves from the psychological
impact of illness through the use of denial. The primary physician may
feel overwhelmed by the helplessness and futility of the patient’s dis-
ease and the threat of death. Rather than participating in their shared
hopelessness, the psychiatric consultant should try to empathize with the
Copyright © 2015. American Psychiatric Publishing. All rights reserved.
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
Created from teacherscollege-ebooks on 2023-02-18 18:08:23.
568 • THE PSYCHIATRIC INTERVIEW IN CLINICAL PRACTICE
sis?” This caused the patient to become tearful for the first time since he
had become ill. He explained that he suddenly recognized that he and
his wife had been colluding by not talking about his death and that they
now had to face it together.
The psychiatric interviewer should find ways to inject hope into a
situation that has bogged down both the patient and the primary treat-
ing team. It is sometimes difficult for beginning psychiatrists to appre-
ciate the potential power of a brief intervention in such situations.
Two types of resistance are particularly common in hospitalized pa-
tients. A patient may greet the psychiatrist with anger or sarcasm, be-
ginning the interview with a statement such as “I suppose Dr. Jones thinks
the problem is all in my mind” or “I guess Dr. Jones thinks I’m just imag-
ining these headaches.” These comments indicate that the patient has
not accepted the consultation, which does not necessarily mean that the
referring doctor neglected to prepare him. There are patients who are so
fearful of psychiatry that even extraordinary efforts at preparation may
be unsuccessful. In this case, prominent paranoid character traits led
the patient to anticipate criticism and rejection. To the patient, the refer-
ral meant that his doctor was disapproving of and had given up on him.
Reassurances that are directed to these issues are most effective. The con-
sultant could reply, “Actually, when Dr. Jones called me, I had the feeling
that he is quite concerned about you, and that he hoped that I might be
another way for him to help you.”
A second type of resistant patient is superficially agreeable but min-
imally motivated. This patient’s passive superficiality is generally ac-
companied by defensive denial and lack of insight, features that tend to
frustrate the consultant. If the psychiatrist appreciates that such atti-
Copyright © 2015. American Psychiatric Publishing. All rights reserved.
tudes are common with hospital patients, he is less likely to feel annoyed
or impatient.
The hospital psychiatrist is often asked by the patient or family to an-
swer questions about the medical illness. Although the interviewer might
provide general information, most questions concerning more specific is-
sues should be referred to the primary physician. In these ways, the inter-
viewer indicates curiosity in what most interests the patient without
straying too far either from the purpose of the interview or from the in-
terviewer’s expertise. The interviewer can be useful to both the patient
and the medical team by facilitating communication between them.
A different situation is illustrated by the psychiatrist who was called
to see a nurse-patient who had a bizarre hemorrhagic illness secondary
to deliberate ingestion of anticoagulant medication. When the psychia-
trist introduced himself, the patient promptly focused on her physical
illness and resentfully protested that her internist had implied that she
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
Created from teacherscollege-ebooks on 2023-02-18 18:08:23.
The Hospitalized Patient • 569
push forcefully for treatment of such conditions. Not only is the effort
likely to be fruitless, it can lead to medical noncompliance and a prema-
ture discharge.
Special Situations
The Capacity Evaluation
In assessing a patient’s capacity to consent or refuse, the interview in-
cludes a straightforward evaluation of the patient’s cognitive ability to
understand the procedure or placement option, the risk/benefit ratio,
and its applicability to the patient. If the patient fulfills these criteria
and is able to make a clear decision, then he is said to have capacity. The
psychiatric interviewer, however, often goes beyond this basic struc-
ture. By exploring the illness and its meaning, the patient’s life, the goals
of the hospitalization, and the importance or unimportance of family,
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
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570 • THE PSYCHIATRIC INTERVIEW IN CLINICAL PRACTICE
Mixed Allegiances
Interviews within a hospital setting often involve dual agency, in which
the psychiatrist has loyalties both to the patient and to another person or
institution. For example, in interviewing a patient who is a potential or-
gan recipient, the interviewer may decide that the patient’s substance
abuse or likely noncompliance makes him a poor risk. Although trans-
plant might still be of value to that particular patient, the interviewer’s
role within the system might contribute to a judgment in favor of an-
other potential recipient. The psychiatric interviewer who is an employee
of the hospital may feel pressured to reduce length of stay, malpractice
risk, or hospitalization of the uninsured. In each case, the interviewer
should make clear to himself and, when necessary, to the patient
whether he is acting as an advocate of the hospital or as a therapist. A
slightly different dilemma occurs when the psychiatric interview for ca-
pacity leads to nursing home placement. In this case, the patient’s wishes
Copyright © 2015. American Psychiatric Publishing. All rights reserved.
may conflict with his personal safety. The consulting interviewer may
fully appreciate the inevitable philosophical conflicts between benefi-
cence and autonomy, but clinically it is difficult to participate in the re-
moval of an elderly person from his home of many years.
Substance Abuse
A significant number of hospitalized patients use mood-altering sub-
stances, often without informing the medical staff. The interviewer
should ask about medication prescribed before the patient was admitted,
alcohol and illicit drugs, tobacco, caffeine, and herbal and alternative
medications. It is often useful to ask patients what is in their medicine
cabinets and what they might have taken to improve their health or re-
duce their pain.
Unlike the more typical psychiatric interview in which people deceive
for neurotic reasons, substance abusers often deceive to get drugs. As a
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
Created from teacherscollege-ebooks on 2023-02-18 18:08:23.
The Hospitalized Patient • 571
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
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572 • THE PSYCHIATRIC INTERVIEW IN CLINICAL PRACTICE
CONCLUSION
The goals of the hospital-based interview are generally limited by the
patient’s psychological and physical states and by the brevity of most
hospitalizations. These same structural issues can cause the hospital
consultation to be extremely important to the patient and his loved
ones. After helping the patient safely complete such a dangerous jour-
ney, it is often useful for the psychiatrist to say goodbye to the patient
prior to discharge and wish him well during the next phase of his life.
MacKinnon, Roger A., et al. The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice, American Psychiatric Publishing, 2015. ProQuest Ebook
Central, http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/teacherscollege-ebooks/detail.action?docID=5108647.
Created from teacherscollege-ebooks on 2023-02-18 18:08:23.