11/10/22, 2:08 PM Wind Speed Comparisons - Structural engineering general discussion - Eng-Tips

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Wind Speed Comparisons 

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Something that was bugging me at 5pm this afternoon - getting an idea of the differences in wind speeds and wind loads when comparing Australia Vs Europe.

The problem arises in how basic wind velocities are calculated... so attempting to compare basic service winds at 10m height in open terrain...

V50 (1:50) 3 second gust wind in Melbourne is 39 m/s.

V50 (1:50) 10 minute average wind in London is 21.5 m/s.

I understand there are a few different methods to convert/compare these numbers. Is there a basic or conservative factor I can apply to compare them?

When I have time, I'll do a side by side calculation to see if differences come out in the region/shape/area coefficients.

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apologies in advance, but 39 > 21.5 so critical ... unless you have different allowables for sudden (gust) loads compared to "steady state " winds.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

I think you're comparing apples and oranges.

For example, I'd like to know how to convert a 3 second gust value into a 10 minute average value.

Can't help directly, but NBC uses an hourly wind and a gust effect factor. The research referenced is "Gust Loading Factors" by Davenport, Journal of Structural Division, so that might be
a start.

I'm assuming you need to design to airloading. A higher wind speed (from a gust) would create the critical load, unless you have different allowables for sudden loads. If you need a gust
load and only have mean data , then there'd be some adjustment (as per Canwesteng).

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

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11/10/22, 2:08 PM Wind Speed Comparisons - Structural engineering general discussion - Eng-Tips

I might be misunderstanding, but it sounds like you're looking for the Durst curve -- a statistical correlation between wind speeds over different time frames.

It can be found in the commentary of ASCE 7, among other places.

----
The
name is a long story -- just call me Lo.

From memory, the Coastal Engineering Manual has a conversion equation (probably in the section on wave forecasting/hindcasting).

Edit: Remembered I have a spreadsheet with this conversion formula in it. 3sec:39m/s is 10min:27m/s using the CEM relationship .

Thanks Lomarandil & Steve,

I can roughly back up Steve's numbers with V3 = (1.52 / 1.06) * 21.5 = 30.8 m/s.

Therefore London basic pressures are roughly 38% less that of Melbourne.

Example calculation using the Durst Curve below, if anyone is interested.

It's probably not strictly relevant to a comparison between Melbourne and London wind loads, but AS1170.2 appears to say its wind speeds are 0.2 second gusts (see notes to Table
3.1), not 3 seconds as it used to. The references to 3 seconds were removed in 2012 and replaced with 'peak' gusts. If that's the case, then 0.2s:39m/s corresponds to 10min:26.2m/s
according to the Coastal Engineerig Manual formula.

I've also attached the CEM formula: more convenient than reading from a graph in a lot of cases; and goes beyond 1 hour durations with a supplementary formula. Fairly good
agreement with Durst's curve.

Link to image below. I can't figure out how to display it within this post from engineering.com. Any hints appreciated.

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11/10/22, 2:08 PM Wind Speed Comparisons - Structural engineering general discussion - Eng-Tips

Link

Quote (steveh49)
Link to image below. I can't figure out how to display it within this post from engineering.com. Any hints appreciated.

From Eng-Tips.com (NOT engineering .com):

Resulting in:

Thanks for the clarification, Steve. Didn't pick up on that amendment ...

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11/10/22, 2:08 PM Wind Speed Comparisons - Structural engineering general discussion - Eng-Tips
Revised numbers --- LDN pressure = 0.67*MLB or 33% less.

I couldn't edit the post above for some reason.

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