Constraints

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RE: critical path
We create activities that are necessary to achieve scope goals (function and
design). Float shall be calculated considering logic, time and quantity
constraints.
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"it is called Resource Critical Path or Critical Chain"
when you define resources as: Materials, Equipment, & Manpower, these items
will compose your physical activity(s).
which means that a certain physical activity is a composition of several elements

that can become critical in anyway!
may it be in time, (when calculated in terms of float / CPM), or maybe in

quantity or design and function
for me, value is important and must be calculated as to represent the expected
end result that the customer wants.
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With the resource constraints traditional Critical Path activities may have
positive floats and activities that had floats in the standard Critical Path
schedule will become critical (their late performance postpones project finish).
With resource constraints true critical path is defined by all project
constraints (network logic, imposed dates, calendars, resources, financing,
supplies) and may consist of sctivities that are not linked with each other. It is
called Resource Critical Path or Critical Chain.
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file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post[31].html (1 of 6)10/02/2008 8:47:46 PM

RE: critical path
The guy who started this was looking for an answer about the percentage of
sactivities that should be on the critical path.
Since then we have had all sorts of assumptions and ideas
For me assuming the critical path is determined as per P3 ie less than say 5 days
float there may be no critical path.
In the alternative all activities may be critical if for example it involves the
collection of rainwater in a desert with an end date related to an amount
neccessary to be collected.
I like to draw up a programme and then press the calculate button
Normally I will have an idea where I expect the path to be however sometimess
its not there because
1. I have a mistake in the logic (this occurs often)
2. I have time/date constraints that shove the path in a different direction
3. I have resource constraints
However for me there is no hard and fast rule about the % or the path I follow
the rule that if it isnt what I expected to be why has that happened
Personally i feel whether the roof goes on first will depend whether you are
building an aircraft hanger or a house
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Guys,
let me clarify it, Steve said "you can’t put on a roof ’til you’ve built the walls",
which for me, the statement is speculative! it’s not absolute!
i never said that it is not correct, of course that’ll depend on a certain situation,
say, you’re building a tunnel!
the point is, whatever the situation would be! CASH is always vital! (Critical
Activities Simulation History/Histogram)!
have a nice day!

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RE: critical path
Annon,
No offence just for your info, on my experience I have done so many times a top
down constructions which roof & trusses first before the walls. I hung it due to
weather condition so the workers can still work during rainy days and the
projects are all successful. (I know that the logic is the main discussion in here
and not the physical activities.)
Regards,
Rodel
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Anoon!
You said "you can’t put a roof till you’ve built the walls" I don’t agree with this
one. Columns/trusses support the roof!
You never seen an Igloo?

You have taken a very simple message and rubbished it why? the message was
define the logic.
As planners we must simplify complex situations so that Managers can Manager

them (they are only simple people after all)
If we bamboozle people with talk of leads, lags negative float etc the message
is lost.
We must rely on building a correct network on the basis of the best information
to hand, and then updating it as the project changes - and it will!
Never mind the fact that the project is running late we must project when it
will finish! In simple one line terms.
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RE: critical path
Steve,
I also pretty much agree with your posts though we use slightly different
techniques.
I will answer your questions and hope that it will clarify unclear items.
1) "It’s not clear to me why uncertainty/variability on resource availability is any

different from uncertainty/variability on an activity."
Let’s suppose that some material is supplied weekly. The quantities are known
and requirements on each activity are also known - no uncertainty at all! The
only uncertainty is the precedence, it is not obvious what supply activity shall
precede to what consumption activity. It is not clear when and on what activity
supplied material will be used. It depends on the project schedule that shall be
calculated taking into account supply constraints.
2) I did not object to calculating CPM schedule for project analysis and
resource optimization. But real feasible floats in the working schedule shall be
calculated taking into account all project constraints. We also recommend to use
NPV as project success criterion (http://www.spiderproject.ru/library/mps.ppt)
but I don’t agree that adding resources is an easy task. If you can install only
one crane in the construction site you shall calculate project schedule with this
restriction. It is physical.
I will look at your paper later, I think that we use similar approaches.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
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Steve,
"an optimized CPM schedule should be generated first" i guess everyone agree
with this, but this is very hard/difficult to figure out in EPC projects, which you
will need a lot of "CASH" (Critical Activities Simulation History).
"you can’t put a roof till you’ve built the walls" I don’t agree with this one.
Columns/trusses support the roof!
it’s good to warm up a monday morning!

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RE: critical path

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Vladimir,
As usual, I pretty much agree with everything you say -- but I feel some of
these ideas are so fundamental that it is important to go deeper and discuss the
implications.
First:
"4) The steel may be purchased for not one but for many activities and many
times during project execution. In this case simple approach with creating link
from delivery activity to consumption activity does not work. It may be
impossible to know which delivery provides materials that will be used on each
activity."
It’s not clear to me why uncertainty/variability on resource availability is any

different from uncertainty/variability on an activity. I can think of many
project situations (Which of several chemical compounds or delivery devices will
prove best for a specific pharmaceutical market niche? Which platform we’re
testing will be best for this system? Which precise drilling hole, and how deep,
will result in an oil well?), where there is great uncertainty that will affect the
start of successor activities.
Second:
"When resources are limited then classical approaches to calculating activity
floats based on network logic do not work."
This does not obviate the need to generate an optimized schedule based on
network logic, though. In fact, even though I suspect we are in complete
agreement that a schedule that is not resource loaded and adjusted for
resource unavailability must not be considered the "working" schedule (in other
words, it should be the resource-limited schedule, and the working critical path
should be the Resource Schedule longest path), this makes it even more
important that an optimized CPM schedule be generated first:
a. An optimized schedule can often "pull" an activity’s dates to a resource’s early

"window of availability" and thus avoid what would otherwise be huge delays due
to later unavailability. This is especially relevant, in my experience, in
multiproject organizations and with equipment resources like clean rooms,
testing ranges, etc., where availability windows open and close according to the
needs of other projects.
b. In the Total Project Control approach, it is absolutely crucial to identify and

quantify the constraints and their effects on schedule and project profit. The
optimized "classical" CPM schedule is what I’ve started calling the "Newtonian"
schedule, i.e., as much as possible, the only limiting factor should be the laws of
physics: you can’t proofread something till you’ve written it; you can’t put on the
roof till you’ve built the walls. (If you can figure out a way around such physical

laws, then see if doing it that way will increase project profit without
unacceptable risk -- if it can, do it!)
c. When going from the optimized CPM schedule to the resource schedule, the
delays will be due to (primarily resource) constraints. These can now be
measured. In TPC, the reduction in project profit due to each constraint is
called the Cost of Leveling with Unresolved Bottlenecks. And that’s the CLUB
you use to spend the extra $20,000 to get the resource you need to bring in
the delivery by three weeks at $50,000 in increased project profit per week.
And the key is: it’s (usually?) a lot easier to change resource availability than to
change the laws of physics!
d. In a continuing and multiprojected organization, it is crucial to collect data

about CLUBs, by both individual resource/skill and department. The CLUB is of
great value to functional managers in their neverending quest to justify staffing
up to sate the needs of the projects they support. These CLUB data should be a
key part of the output of the project postmortem and ABCP analysis. Failure to
do this is one of the main reasons that the same resource’s unavailability delays
project after project month after month and year after year, with no
improvement because everyone "works around" such delays by planning activities
that could be done in one day for one week, because they know the resource
could take that long to become available!
For more on that, you can check out the "Post Mortem Agenda" document among
the resources at:
http://www.totalprojectcontrol.com/resources/resources.html
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RE: Setting-Baseline that has Actuals and Constraints in P6
just read aacei’s RP for forensic schedule analysis (but i’m not sure if I
understand it) and found an item: "De-statusing a Progressed Schedule to
create a Baseline";
Say for example, you got a Schedule which is continuously updated (i.e. daily)
but never Baselined and when the time comes that everybody is looking for a
Baseline, you de-status it and forgot to have back-up, (i.e. you got around 5,000
activities, some of which has constraints - which happened actually), will the
next update be valid?
apologies in advance
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Dear All,
At the moment, I personally believe that no one is really well versed in P6 (for it
is not even a one year old program); and i also believed that it was programmed
to produce precise output, in other words, garbage in - garbage out; however,
Planning which evolved from the word uncertainties, cannot be certain unless it
happened (meaning - past, which has actuals!).
For me, having constraints and actuals for a baseline program cannot be avoided
especially if the works include Engineering and Procurement.
My concern is, the mindset of the Project Team, and to study a program without
enough knowledge and experience is time consuming.
I just want to finish the Baseline Program, before the project ends!
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file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post.html (1 of 4)10/02/2008 8:47:49 PM

RE: Setting-Baseline that has Actuals and Constraints in P6
Just a quickie Anoon,
What u normally do in re-baselining the program? Are there any actuals in re-
baseline program.
if ur answer is yes, then it is evident that we can use actuals in baseline program
as well.
One more problem without the actuals in these type of programs is that then
there will be lot of open-end activities in the program as the predecessor
(having actual date) are not being entered.
Cheers,
Ravi
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Hi,
the ’’AACE international Recommended practice’’ recommends that the Baseline
schedules should be relatively free of imposed or “mechanical” constraints...
’relatively’ is very subjective!!!

Having up to now arround 3000 activities either constrainted or having actual
dates, my advise would be have a talk with whom it may concern in the
Acceptance of the baseline schedule to have his feedback on the subject... It
will be a lost of time and energy to revise all these activities if the baseline is
rejected....
Regards
JK
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Hi
By internal calculation I meant scheduling, which is to calculate an algorithm.
How precise this calculation will be, depends on the database’s parameters not
on your preferences.
I you’ll create a baseline (by maintain bl) this is a complete copy of your project.
Regards
Dieter
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Hi Dieter,
What do you mean by internal calculation? I’m not really well versed in P6. I
believe I cannot hide the settings or columns (even if I do, it is still there). I
believe P6 uses calendars and timeperiod settings, whenever there are actuals,
then the program will read it.
I am just trying to set-up a baseline (I supposed to be ideal), but I realized that

there’s no such thing!
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Hi
Internal calculation does not depend on your user preferences, it depends on
your data-base’s settings how many digits behind decimal point will be
calculated. But in your preferences you can decide if you want to show the
minutes to outside.
Regards
Dieter
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Thanks for the reply Mark, I’m setting up a Baseline Program (a new one), it is a
Design and Build Project (EPC). The thing is, there are constraints that I have
to consider as well as actual dates (which I supposed cannot be neglected in the
program), I have around 3,000 activities at the moment, but I haven’t
completed the program yet (there are still a lot of details to be considered -
which I haven’t got yet).
P6, I supposed is calculating on hours (as planning unit); I don’t have a problem
considering a baseline with constraints and/or actuals, my concern is, when I
present it to the approver, I know that they’ll be asking about the set-up (i.e.
start of a certain activity - please note, in terms of hours and minutes!). When
you run the schedule in P6, I believe it calculates to minutes depending on your
timeperiod settings (Admin preference and User preference), this is where the
actuals and constraints will affect. i.e. Activities will not start exactly at 8:00
am and ends @ 5:00 pm (for an example).If we are going to use Timesheets...I
don’t know.
I hope I made myself clear.
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Anoon,
I don’t have P6 but P5. I can tell you that ALL baselines SHOULD have
constraints -its not a necessity but you aren’t planning if you don’t have
constraints in your plan.
As for actuals, I haven’t tried this in P3 but I would expect there not to be a
problem. Are you taking a new baseline or copying the current programme to an
old baseline? If its the latter I am unsure. I guess you should just try it and see
but take backups first.
I hope this helps,
Mark
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it’s quite hard to get a reply either, my concern is that the approver of the
Baseline is very meticulous that he wanted to see the Hours and Minutes in the
Program (but I supposed that he doesn’t have any clue of what he is looking
after);
somehow, i believe that an ideal Baseline has no constraints or actuals (but in

real world, things are different)
any ideas?
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RE: Primavera Contractor 5.0
Primavera Contractor allows a number of new features not available in SureTrak

such as Multiple Currencies, Cost Accounts, Expenses, Multiple Baselines, Claim
Digger, Activity Steps.
Primavera Contractor also has one factor for calculation summary durations. So
if you have some activities on a 12 hour day calendar and some on an 8 hour day
then the summary duration in days for one calendar will be incorrect calendar
(as in SureTrak and MSP). I hoped that this problem would be solved with new
software as it is in other products like Asta Powerproject.
There are hierarchical Activity Codes but no Activity ID Codes.
You may only have one project open at a time
You are unable to paste data from the software, but you may copy and paste
into other products like Excel.
The product is fairly click happy which makes it difficult to be productive It

takes six clicks to apply another layout, whereas P3 and SureTrak (if you have
customized the toolbar) it takes 2 clicks to apply a layout, to be precise one and
a double click. There is also no customizable toolbar in Contractor.
Constraints are interesting. You have to lift up the horizontal window split until
half the activities are covered in the upper window to expose the lower area of
the bottom window where one applies constraints, some users will find this
inconvenient. Constraints are not listed in the Reference Manual index and there
are only four short paragraphs on page 146 on constraints which do not explain
what each type does or how they calculate.
You cannot save to a file, all the projects are in a database on your C drive,
some people and companies will find this inconvenient.
There are no Roles which are found in the Enterprise version.
The manual also does not explain the minimum operating system requirements.
Paul E Harris
Eastwood Harris Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
Planning and Scheduling Training Manual & Book Publishers & Consulting
www.eh.com.au
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RE: Primavera Contractor 5.0
Not having used Contractor, I can already start a list of defects:
1- Number of activities limited to 750 and 2,000 according to version and price.
2- No resource leveling.
3- No project groups.
If anybody has anything else to contribute to this list maybe will have enough
arguments to consider it a lemon; advanteges are also welcome - maybe we
change our mind, or try to make the Primavera marketing people consider the
needs of their loyal clientele when desingning their strategies, instead of just
squeezing them (us).
Ernesto Puyana
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Tomas
Thanks for your advice. That ads up to the list of reasons not to move from
suretrak.
My trouble with P6 is the price. Can’t afford a US$5,000 product to do the

same I do with a $500 one.
Thanks again
Ernesto
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Ernesto:
Beware of Contractor: it does not have a resource leveling capability.

I was recomending Contractor to one of my clients when I realized it does not
do resource leveling. That changed the whole decision.
They were also using Suretrack and decided to stay that way.
By the way, I use Primavera 5.0 and I just received P6 and waiting for a chance
to install it.
Tomas Rivera
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I’ve been scheduling and monitoring progress on several construction projects

using Suretrak. I´m feeling it’s time to migrate to more recent primavera
products and looked at Contractor 5.0
Can anybody tell me how suretrak ans contractor compare? I’m worried that
literature on Contractor says it works up to 200’ activities (de luxe). Is that so?
I’ve been working 3,500 and 5,500 activity schedules on suretrak!
I’ll appreciate any comments.

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RE: Negative Float & Constraints - Primavera P5
Hi Mike
Spot On!!
You are a genius. I found the culprits in the "External Late Finish" column. I
deleted these and ran the schedule. All the negative floats are gone.
Thanks a lot for your help.
regards
France
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In a possible way for your solution..try the following which can help you to an
extent..
Choose Project, Activities, then select the activity whose constraint you want to
define.Display Activity Details, then click the Status tab.In the Primary field,
select a constraint type.Click in the Date field, then select the date to which
the constraint applies.In the Secondary field, select a constraint type (if
necessary).Click in the Date field, then select the date to which the constraint
applies.
The Secondary constraint list is filtered based on the value you select in the
Primary constraint field.You cannot apply constraints to Level of Effort or WBS
Summary activity types.
Regards,
VENKAT
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Donovan / France
Another possibility:
If you had relationships to activities in another schedule then the constraints
may arise from dates held in the "External Dates" field which are not
necessarily displaid in the Activities Details Tab.
Mike

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Thanks for your suggestions Donovan.
I have checked all the things you have mentioned except for the baseline
suggestion. I will try it and let you know.
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also check wether predeccessors or succesors are linked to fixed dates
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did remove your actuals in labour units,and durations, and maybe its in your
baseline
regards
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Hi there everybody
would anyone be able to explain to me how I can remove a constraint on a Finish
Date when a project has been copied with constraint dates attached.
The star appears next to the date indicating a constraint but there is no
constraint shown under the status tab. I have tried various things to remove
these constraints but to no avail. These constraints are giving me huge negative
floats on certain activities.
thanx
France
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RE: Enterprise resoruce levelling
Heide, Thanks for the advise. - Amar.

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Amar,
After you’ve leveled your planning. You should put some constraints on your
activities to keep them right in time. Otherwise the activities will be planned
earlier after you do a new schedule (F9). You could also choose to automaticly
level after each schedule but you should realy think it over if this is wat you
want.
To make a good (leveled) baseline i use constraints to hold the nessesary
activities in place
Regards
Henk
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Hi Heide,
That is fine and thanks. Actually I wanted to know how to set the activity
levelling priorities to activities. Or is it something like, whenever primavera
(machine) levels, it levels depending on the float available. I mean to say,
priority is nothing but float?? Pls advise.
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Hi Heide,
That is fine and thanks. Actually I wanted to know how to set the activity
levelling priorities to activities. Or is it something like, whenever primavera
(machine) levels, it levels depending on the float available. I mean to say,
priority is nothing but float?? Pls advise.
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Hi Amar,
When you do a machine leveling then the machine (primavera) searches for a
way to set the activities in such a way that the amount of resources during your
project will be most ideal within the constraints of your project.
For example: instead of scheduling all work at monday so you need 5 resources
on that day you could spread them over the hole week so every day has one
resource.
However the more float you’ve in your schedule the better results you’ve with
leveling. Otherwise you’ve to move or set some (different) constraints
good luck
Regards
Henk
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Hi all,
In p3 e&c ver 4.1,
Under Levelling resource, What is activity levelling and how to set Activity
Levelling priority
cheers, Amar.
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Luca,
I’ve been reading your question

Dont you’ve other constraints witin your project so that primavera will not or
cant level your resources ?. Primavera will then not level them because then it
looks like you’ve best resource loading you can have but on the other hand its
not within the constraints you’ve set. So the project leveling is o.k. but one of
your projects (of parts) will finish 2 weeks later. I always level within in the
constraint of my project. Somethimes this can by machine sometimes i’ve to
adjust the plan by hand to reach my goals.
Regards
Henk
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Vladmir,
thanks for the tips.
I will be downloading the software this week end and I will start to work on it.
Thanks agian for the collaboaration and support.
L
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I was close. I understood that you started to manage people as individuals, not
as workforce.
Yes, create an example and send it to me spider@mail.cnt.ru
I will help with the simulation of your situation. If to use Demo then create a
couple of small projects (less than 20 activities each) and then include them into
portfolio for testing cross projects levelling.
I’ll be waiting for your letter.
Regards,
Vladimir
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Vladimir,
that is not corret 100%.
I am a PM consultancy for Design and construction.
I will download and try to make a simple example to roll up over here.
L
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RE: Moving tasks
Thank you both...Brilliant....now sorted
Cheers
Andy
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Agree with Paul. Make sure "small group are connected with logic and do not
have constraints" This is the key.
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If all the tasks in the small group are connected with logic and do not have
constraints (and depending on your constraints option in the options form)
changing the early start constraint date on the first task should move all the
tasks.
There are too many options in Microsoft Project and it is difficult to predict
what will happen in other people’s projects.
I suggest you display the indicators column and this will show you which
activities have constraints.
Other wise you may have manual recalculation switched on and have to hit the
F9 key.
Paul E Harris
Eastwood Harris Pty Ltd
Planning and Scheduling Book Publishers
www.eh.com.au
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RE: Moving tasks
Paul, many thanks for your response.
The tasks I want to move are a small group within a larger project. I have
created links between them and constrained the first of them to start on a
specific date. I still cant get them all to move as one....I need to mve them all by
two weeks.
Hope that is clearer
Andy
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Andy
People usually have tasks in Microsoft Project linked with relationships whereby
moving the first task will move all the successor tasks. I am unsure from the
info you have provided how you have scheduled your tasks. There are several
ways of delaying tasks by two weeks:
1. You may change the project start date and this will move any unstarted tasks
that are scheduled on the start date to the new start date.
2. Typing a date in the Task Start column will assign an early start constraint to
the task. If you have a number of tasks that you wish to start on the same day
you may use the Fill Down or Copy and Paste function to assign a constraint to a
number of activities.
3. If you do not have relationships between tasks, put some in and assign a
constraint to the fist task.
Paul E Harris
Eastwood Harris Pty Ltd
Planning and Scheduling Book Publishers
www.eh.com.au
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Hi, bit of a novice I am afraid. I want to able to move a number of tasks
forward / or back by say two weeks. I can only seem to do this one at a time.
How can I move them all together? Thanks for reading this and I look forward
to a response Andy

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RE: Layout issues with P5
Thanks everyone.
Keep planning.
Kevin.
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Hi Mangesh
In P6 you will be able to export BL as well - as far as I know: up to 3.
As for the constraints it is always essential, to consider BEFORE you use them.
Regars
Dieter
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Hi
Dieter
thanks dear
well i have started to get frustated with p5 specially with import/export/check
in/check out facilities,
i have never understood why the primavera people have always made us work in
constraints (well i agree planners have to work with constraints).
in p3 also there are lots of constraints, e.g no of characters being limited for
activity id, descriptions.
cant they sort this things out.( maybe there are some technical problems
associated).
but how did they did not take into mind for such a basic thing that if some one
is using standalone installations, they would need to export/import projwects,
and what happens the baseline does not import/export with the project. quite a
annoying thing.
regards
mangesh
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Hi Mangesh
I do it this way:
- Arrange data as agreed with PM - filter, group&sort, row hight, colours etc.
With the right mouse button in the table area all relevant functions can be
accessed.
- Arrange bar chart or netview, right mouse button in the bar chart as well
- File --> Print Preview --> Page set-up (the icon in the upper left corner) -->
adjust the print-out ("apply" for preview) --> close
- Layout --> Save as --> project’s-name + indicator --> For all users.
If I need a report to be printed, I just have to start the print.
Regards
Dieter
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hi
dieter can u please explain how to do it.
cheers
mangesh
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Hi Kevin
A layout belongs to a specific user or to all users, but is independent from a

project. You can solve it, if you create a layout with a project’s data and then
only use it with this project. The print layout is kept with a layout.
For P6 project related layouts are announced.
Hope I met your question.
Dieter
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Layout issues with P5
Hi All,
When I move between projects I am continually using the group and sort option
to regroup my projects using the project codes. (I prefer project codes to the
more static WBS) I save the project layout each time but every time I re-open
the project using its specific layout I have to regroup with the project codes.
Also why doesn’t the print layout save with the layout so there is no need to
continually work on the print layout when you move between projects ?
Keep Planning..
Kevin.
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RE: Smallest total float
Hi Kian!
I’m sorry. You are right. It seems that in this new version 5.0 Start float and
finish float are the same in Interruptible activity and constraint activity.
I’ll check with some of my college and feedback you in case I find the answer.
Thanks
Khuong
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Dear Khuong
Thanks for your consideration,by the way as I checked difference total float
for activity that has suspend and resume dates and also for activity which has
constraint,I couldn’t find any difference(as you know P3e calculates based on
remaining early dates)would you please clarify the issue.
Regards
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Kian,
It’s actually very simple: If one single activity has both SS and FS relationships,
the start float and finish float can be different.
H.T.H.
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Hi Kian
Start and Finish float are usually the same, however they can be different in
the following situations.
1. When using Suspend & Resume

2. When using constraints
3. Hammock/Level of Effort activities
4. WBS activities
5. Summary calculations that get their dates from detailed activity information
The easily seen situation is Level of effort activities. The first activity and last
activity of LOE activity usually have different float. So the schedule option can
bring into play now.
Thanks
Khuong
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Kian
This is a topic more for the purists. For a normal activity until today I wasn’t
able to realize real difference. For WBS-Summary there are, but I don’t know
why. I didn’t analyze float on WBS-summary activities, since it was not
important for me. Others may know an answer.
Regards
Dieter
By the way, this is the area for old P3.

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Smallest total float
Hi All,
I have a question about P3E-Ver.5 In schedule option there is an option
"compute total float as :smallest of start float and finish float" As I know in P3,
start float and finish float could be different based on "contiguous" and
"interruptible" check mark in schedule option window,but in p3e-ver.05 I don’t
know in which circumstance finish float and start float can be different.would
you please help me if sombody know the answer.
Regards,
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RE: Level of Effort...
Hi
U r absolutely correct & this was the only thing i was asking other guys. they
were discussing abt LOE & i felt tht they r not properly aware abt the use of
LOE.
Anyways, Thanks a lot.
Regards
Gaurav Chawla
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Hi Gaurav
Sorry, it was rather difficult for me, to understand your post, but it seems to
be back to the headline of this thread.
This is out of Primavera’s help function:

Level of effort activity
A level of effort activity’s duration is dependent on its predecessor and/or
successor activities. Level of effort activities cannot have constraints assigned
to them. Level of effort activities are not included when leveling resources.
Use level of effort activities for on-going tasks that depend on other activities.
For example, you could assign level of effort activities for clerical work, a
security guard, or even some aspects of project management.
A level of effort activity uses its assigned calendar to summarize its dates.
Any type of relationship can be assigned to a level of effort activity.
A level of effort activity’s duration is calculated from the earliest early start
of its predecessors/successors (linked to the start end of the level of effort
activity) to the latest early finish of its predecessors/successors (linked to the
finish end of the level of effort activity).
But there are some additions to be made:

- No need, that the LOE-Activity is in the same project as the activities from
which it depends - but all related projects must be open during scheduling.
- The first predecessor activity, started, automatically starts the LOE. The last
successor activity finished, automatically finishs the LOE.
- A LOE cannot drive another LOE
Regards

Dieter
You have
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Hi everyone,
are you guys aware, how to use LEVEL OF EFFORT??? wht shd b d successors &
wht relationships hv to b placed to get d desired output of LOE???
give ur comments so tht things can b discussed in details.
regards
Gaurav Chawla
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In my opinion, Primavera created the “Start” and “Finish” columns to keep the
customers happy and to stop them calling for technical support. If you look
closely at the Early/Late Start/Finish columns, you will note that completed
activities also have these calculated dates. This is correct according to CPM
theory and practice but not what the ‘average user’ expects to see.
The Start and Finish columns contain the early start and finish dates, minus
those dates for the competed activities. This is a “P3-compatible” listing. I hope
that this helps!
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Hi Karim
Start and Finish I like for reporting because:
- Activity not started: = Early Start
- Activity ongoing or finished: = Actual Start
Since an activity Actual Start maybe not equal to Early start, its the best
information in one attribute.
Finish is analogue.
Regards
Dieter
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Hi Anoon,
Each activity can has the following dates:

Actual dates, Anticipated dates, Early dates, Late dates & Planned dates.
I believe that they invented the "Start & Finish" fields in order not to cause
confusion for the users.
Regards,
Karim
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% complete type has different values:
- Duration: progress stricly calculated from time, independent from real work
- Units progress calculated from actual vs. planned units
- Physical: Someone has to estimate the progress of an activity or based on the
completed weighted steps. BUT you know that if you ask a programmer after 3
days of work for his progress, the answer will be 90%, three months later: 90%
- a saying in Germany. It’s my experience, too: this estimation in general is
unrealistic.
Then you have the attribute "physical % complete". If the % complete type is
duration or units, ignore this value because it will be 100 % if finished, 0% if not
started and either 0 or 100% if it’s ongoing.
So it’s helpful to remember the parameter settings of a project.
Just a personal hint: don’t try to know everything from the first moment, you’ll
fail. Just do it step by step. Automatically you’ll find very soon, P3e is easy to
use.
Dieter
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Karim,
I can understand it, what I cannot understand is that why do you need to use it
(Start/Finish) when there’s a straight forward Early/Late and Actuals? And
what if you’re in the process of updating, meaning you’re comparing with your
Baseline? I think too many options doesn’t make things easier.
Dieter,
Would you mind elaborating the meaning of "Physical Progress"? (from P5)
cheers
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As for the different types of dates refer to page 304 of the Primavera’s PM
reference manual.
Doku\Construction and Engineering\PMRefMan.pdf on the documentation CD
Regards
Dieter
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Hi,
You start the "Hint Help" (under "VIEW") --> move your mouse into the table
area --> click right button --> "Columns" --> "dates" --> one click with the left
mouse button onto the item you are interested. A window will open with a good
explanation. Alternatively have a look into the reference manual. there is an
excellent overview on the different dates.
The bars of LOE activities: it is the same behaviour as in P3: --> move your
mouse into the Gantt/bars area --> click right button --> "Bars" --> The firs
column is "visible" --> you mark it with the left mouse button.
Resources/expenses: you assign them activities. P3-curves for resource
assignments still exist in P3e.
Behaviour of steps-weighting is similiar to that of the WBS-milestones. Don’t
forget the parameter for a project, that the steps are used for %-complete and
duration type "physical".
But you wrote that you attended a training?! These items belong to its content.

Regards
Dieter
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RE: Can we remove assigned constraints in Project?
... choose none.

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yeah, im sure u can, step as folow:
1. select activity that u want to remove constraints
2. In Activity Detail, select status tab
3. Remove all constraints by choiced none in "constraints box"
best of luck
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Surely you can.
_ Choose the activity
_ Click on Status tab of Activity Detail
_ In Constrain section, click the dropdown list and choose
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Can we remove assigned constraints in Project?
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Dear all
In P3e, Can we remove assigned constraints in Project?
Regards
Ritesh Kumar
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file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post[7].html10/02/2008 8:47:57 PM
Message
RE: Must finish by
Hi Naveen,
You can have a "Planned Start" date and a "Must Finish By" date when you
create a new project.
The "Must Finish By" will lead to have a negative TF if the activities passed this
date.
You can’t have constraints for the WBS Summary activity type but since that
the WBS summary is a roll up of activities under it, then you can assign the
constraints dates for these activities.
Regards,
Karim
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Hi
Its been quite a while, But what I think is u would have to start your project
sectors or WBS structures with a Start mile stone. That would we sufficient.
Then after you pull in your programme to the required Must Finish date that is,
with out giving any constraints!!!.....,,,,, then finally put the Must finish on date
which in P3.0 is in the Project over view and in P5 it comes in the start itself.
The sole purpose, I think of this must finish date is to get the float in your
programme from this particular date else, the programme calculates dates from
the Early start which normally during the updation stages of a programme goes
out of the Must Finish Date.
Hope I am right. :)
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Must finish by
hi,
I am working on P3e 4.1 & my query is - "Is it possible to have a Must start on &
Must finish dates for a project" The logic is I have unlimited supply of
resources so I need to fix the start & finsh dates. Also is it possible to have
"Must start on & Must finish by" dates for individual WBS elements within a
project.
Thanks in advance.
Naveen
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RE: FF and SS Links
Dear Easin,
Thanks a lot for your advice on my Question b. The problem is that I have a
quite a lot of activities with “Successive SS links”. It’s said that “Constraints
must be used only where it is unavoidable/ required”. Therefore, I’m afraid to
use too many constraints in my project.
To All PP Members,
Thanks to Paul Harris, my Question a (FF links with 2 different calendars) has
been now resolved. It was more to do with MSP2002 Standard which I was
using. After upgrading to MSP 2003 Standard and pressing F9 (recalculation), I
got the correct float calculations.
Regards
Viraja Leelaratna
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Dear Mr. leelanatra
answer for the question (b. Start to Start Link: When an activity has got only a
"successive Start to Start Link", as soon as "Actual start" (or % complete) is
entered it becomes an open end activity. (Total float calculates up to the
project end date)
If you double clik on first activity and reach task information on the 4th tab
(advanced tab) there is constraint type chose must finish on and select finishing
date of activity in constraint date part so you can adjust the float or you can
make it critical activity
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Paul,
I know this issue; on a training session, I always tell my trainees to concnetrate
on child tasks and let summaries alone, on this topic.
All the best and have a good week; here in France it’s Sunday morning,
Alexandre
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RE: FF and SS Links

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There are a few odd things in way MSP calculates.
Try turning on and off the “Update task status updates resources status” and
entering a % Complete against a summary task and see the differences in the
way it calculates the % Completes against the child tasks!
Paul E Harris
www.eh.com.au
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Thank you Paul,
I did not know that; I have been using "Split in progress" since the beginning,
but I was not aware of the relationship with "Retained logic".
Have a good week-end.
Alexandre
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You can make MSP simulate Retained Logic and Progress Override by turning on
or off “Split in Progress”.
With “Split in Progress” is checked you will get Retained Logic, except when the
% complete of the successor is 0% then you get Progress Override.
With “Split in Progress” unchecked you will get Retained Logic.
Paul E Harris
www.eh.com.au
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RE: FF and SS Links
Ernesto,
Where can you find "logic override mode" in MS Project?
This is a P3 feature, isnt’it.
If the successor starts before the predecessor in such an example, either the
successor actual duration reaches the status date and the task bar is not
splitted, or the successor actual duration does not reach the status date and
the bar is splitted between the task actual date and the project status date.
I hope that you will understand what I mean; if not, just give me your email and
I will forward my 2 task project to you.
All the best,
Alexandre
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When 2 activities are linked Start to Start and the successor starts before the
predecessor (out of logic), under the logic override mode, the link is broken and
the predecessor becomes open ended, but I don´t see a reason for this to
happen when it is the predecessor which starts first.
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I am unable to replicate your observations.
Could you please email me simple schedules one with the before and one with the
after result of each problem, harrispe@eh.com.au.
Paul E Harris
www.eh.com.au
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FF and SS Links
I am using MSP Standard 2002. I have encountered the following problems with
SS and FF links:
a. Finish to Finish Link: Predecessor’s calendar is transferred to the Successor.
b. Start to Start Link: When an activity has got only a "successive Start to
Start Link", as soon as "Actual start" (or % complete) is entered it becomes an
open end activity. (Total float calculates up to the project end date)
Can anyone explain/ help as how to resolve?
Regards
Viraja Leelaratna
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Message
RE: How to put more than to contraints on a task in MS proj
Dear Larry, sukumaran,alex and zhang,
Thank you all for your replies, I tried start and finish milestones and it worked
exactly as I wanted. Thank you guys.
I know very well that applying constraints is not at all good in a schedule
because of many reasons. But the present project I am working on is a special
case. I think you people will be astonished to know that the ship of which we are
doing the refit will go to water 4 times during the period of refit and 4
different sub projects are to be included in the master plan which are linked to
each other in a very complex manner and at the same time executed by
diffeerent agencies and one of them being the Royal navy of Oman. So
constraints are a must.
What you guys suggested saved me a lot of time, I spent a lot of hours in excel
programming to meet these requirements, any way it was a nice experience.
Thank you to all once again.
One more thing I wanted to tell you, when I did resource levelling in MS project
it took more time than the program I created in excel and the result was the
same.
Manu.
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It’s not recommended, but what you might do is put a milestone at the end of
the task with a must finish on constraint and must start on constraint on the
task itself. Alternately, if you make the task type Fixed Duration, and then put
a must start on constraint on it, that would have the same effect. However, be
prepared to add resources if your schedule starts to slip.
As others have said, it’s probably not a good idea, as it will cause you no end of
grief when you go to update and reschedule the remaining work.
Is there a reason you need to do it this way?
Larry
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RE: How to put more than to contraints on a task in MS proj
Manulal,
A. 1st plot the schedule in MSP.

B. 2nd Go to Task Information:
B1. Assign constraint
B2. Enter deadline - A target date indicating when you want a task to be
completed. If the deadline date passes and the task is not completed, project
displays an indicator.
If you want to assign more than 2 constraints in MSP, I don’t think so you can
do it, never come across such a situation. Suggest you create start and finish
milestones and link the activity bar to milestones as a controlling factor.
Also before update the schedule save it as a baseline for your comparison
between current and target.
Cheers!!!
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echoooo.....
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creat some dummy tasks with constraint and link to the task
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Hi manulal
My question is how you build your schedule??
Constraints should be use in a very restricted condition in a CPM model.
Anyway to answer your question: If you want to have various condition (what you
refer to constraints) to drive the activity - what you can do is to have varisoul
predecessors activities and linked to the activity. that way the activity will be
dependent on the predecessor conditions.
HTH - But I still insist use as little as possible on constraints

Good Luck
ALex
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Hi,
I am working in a ship repair project and the plan has got a lot of constraints.
Any idea how to put more than two contraints on a task?
to explain my question, suppose i have a task "a" with 4 days duration and I have
to put both "start no earlier than" and "finish no later than" constraints on this
task.
I dont know whether its possible or not in MS Project. So I have developed a

planning program in Excel in which it is possible. But it is too slow as the size is
around 120 MB and lot of formulae involved. So i thought its better to find out a
easier method in MS Project itself.
Can anybody help me please?

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RE: Date Constraints
Thanks Jaco that was as simple as that..
Cheers
Sunil
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Great Jaco,
Now I can remove all the other constraints effectively without any hassle.
Regards.
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Another Methods How to Remove Constraint are
Global
SNE EQ " "
SNL EQ " "
FNE EQ " "
FNL EQ " "
ON EQ " "
MS EQ " "
MF EQ " "
The Nice thing about it once you have it set up you can transfer it for Future
USE.
Etc
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Hi Ganga,
To export relationship, just click on the successors button when you are in the
export menu, just remember to give it a file name, for that click on the format
button, and remember to save as a dbf file

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Thanks, Dattatreya. I could do and get the results. It saved my time.
bye.
Ganga
gchegde@yahoo.com
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Thanks, Dattatreya. I could do and get the results. It saved my time.
bye.
Ganga
gchegde@yahoo.com
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Thanks. Please tell me how you export relationships also. -Ganga
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I normally export the activities in dbf/lotus (all current) & also the
relationships.
Delete them from P3.
Delete Fields "ECON", "LCON", "CON", "ECOND", "LCOND", "COND" as may be
the case & then export back into P3 (also the relationship file).
This may be useful if you have to delete many constraints else, manually
unchecking the Constraints in respective activities is quite effective.
Regards
Dattatreya
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Gangha,
You can delete the zero total float and zero free float constraints using global
change.
To remove set them to 0; to apply them set them to 1. Eg.:

Then: ZTF EQ 0
Then: ZFF EQ 0
Other type of contraints, you filter the activities with contraint and remove it
manually as stated by Philip.
Regards.
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Hi Gangha,
This is the problem with constraints, the only simplistic method of removing
them, is find out where they are and remove them manually.
If anybody out there have found a better solution, pray tell! Give me a go at the
database structure, and it will be peanuts, that is why the background like code
structures etc, is not accessable in modern day programs
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RE: F9-schedule
hi,
if your wanting activities to ’stay put’ once you have hit the F9 key you can
assign Constraints that force them to stay where they are when you F9,, you
find your Constraints when you hit the F7 button,, they activities will push to
the right once your datadate is pressed up to them if they havnt begun,,
hope this helps
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Aytac,
It sounds like you are just starting to get to grips with P3. I strongly suggest
that you get Paul Harris’s book on how to use this software, i believe it is
available from Amazon. It will have you familiar with the basics very quickly.
There is a lot more depth to the software capabilities than is covered in Paul’s
book, but it will get you up and running then you can look at the wonders of
ODBC, exports, global changes and the infamous Report Writer
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"Then how to aCTUALISE DATA"
R u asking how to insert the actual dates?
If so, then in the activity form table, click on the early start and early finish
dates tick box to put in the actual dates.
As bijaya has said, u need not necessarily chnage the data date every time u
chnage durations or relationships.
Cheers,
Rav
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RE: F9-schedule
Of course, you have to reschedule to see the effects of new relations, changed
durations etc.
If you are just changing relations and durations and want to see their effect,
you should have the data date as it was before (no need to change). If you
change the data date as well, you will see the combined effect of your changes +
change in data date.
So the simple answer is: press F9 but do not change the data date (this way you
will see the effect of changes you have made).
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Then how to actualise data? When ı insert new relations, durations.. to see them
on the gantt chart ı have to use F9 button.ıs it true?
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But then that’s what you have asked Primavera to do by pressing F9 or re-
schedule.
When you reschedule, all the remaining activities will be recalculated to start on
the data date subject to relationships and constraints.
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But then that’s what you have asked Primavera to do by pressing F9 ore
reschedule.
When you reschedule, all the remaining activities will be recalculated to start on
the data date subject to relationships and constraints.
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Hı
When I use F9 button for scheduling after ı insert the durations, start dates
and relations of tasks, all tasks start from data date that ı chose while
scheduling. Please help me, what is the problem?

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RE: Deleting Early Start Constraints
A lot easier to just the functions already provided by P3.
In Glaobal Change, enter in the Then section
SNE EQ " ", this will remove all early start constraints,
SNL for late start and so on.
HTH
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For the import/export, find here after the structure of an excel file:
ACT ECON ECOND LCON LCOND CON COND
AA1010 XF 16/10/2002
AA3020 HA
AA3090 ON 11/08/2004 ON 11/08/2004
AA3120 EF 30/06/2004
AA3185 HA
AA3190 XF 10/05/2004
AA3280 XF 14/05/2004
AA4285 HA
AA5051 ZT
AA5684 ES 18/08/2003
AA5686 ES 06/02/2004
AAAAAA7950 MF 15/10/2004
AAAAAB2000 MS 07/07/2004
AAAAAB2001 MS 07/07/2004
It is not easy to read the first time.
ECON mean early constrain type
ECOND used to insert the early date to constrain
LCON mean late constrain type
LCOND used to insert the late date to constrain
CON other date constrain, like expected and mandatory
COND used to insert the data
Then
ES/LS: Ealry/late start
EF/LF: Early/late finish
XF: expected finish
ON: start on
ZF: zero float
MF: must finish on

MS: must start on

and so on.
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Not sure it can be done in global change. Quick fix if you have a lot of
constraints is to export act ID and constraints data to excel and manually
delete the records in excel then import back into P3.
Make a copy of project 1st, no undo with import/export.
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Team...
Can anyone suggest on how to delete Early Start Constrain in Global Change?
What is the Command? Thanks in advance and best regards..
ALFON
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RE: ES, LS, Mandatory Start & Finish constraints r
RA is available long long time ago, but I disn’t notice what RA stand for, may be
Remote Access (kidding). RA ia just some programming work to run some data
communication connection from P3 to some other software, like Excel, Access,
FoxPro, etc.
In most situation, we use export/import to get data from/to P3, the limitation
is only part of P3 data can be "touch", by RA, you have more.
I remember on CD, there ia a P3 data map. It helps much on establish add-on
solution.
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It is funny, but although I have been using RA for years, I don’t know what it
stands for either. I went back to the P3 3.1 installation disk and looked in the
Ra help file (it doesn’t seem to rate a manual, only help files and samples.) The
introduction does not define it and even the glossary only says what it does, not
why it is called, “RA”.
RA is another method of accessing P3 schedules and the data in them other

than using P3 itself. It is like Batch, only much different. You use OLE to access
the RA API (Application Program Interface) which then accesses your P3 data
using P3 rules. You can use Excel or Visual Basic to make the OLE connection to
RA.
Don’t look to the manuals on the P3 installation disk for help. Instead use
Explorer and access the CD’s “RA” directory. There you will find the RA help
file and a series of confused samples and unrelated documents. Put them
together, stir them around, and you have yourself a very programmable
interface into P3! Good luck!
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Hello, can you elaborate what RA means
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Or by RA, the fill the value for constraint is "DELETE"
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What about a Global Change, with the line SNE EQ " " (for Early Start
Constraint, MF for mandatory finish etc)
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Gary
The easiest way is to open the file with SureTrak, display the constraints in a
column and then use the Cell Copy and Paste to remove them.
If you do not have a copy of SureTrak, I recommend you get one as it has some
very neat features that P3 does not have, like copy & paste from Excel, Group
by Activity ID, Predessor and Successor, Constraints & Log in Columns.
Regards
Paul E Harris
Eastwood Harris
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I have just recieved a copy of programme with 4000 activities, I am going to
use this programme as a template fro two other platforms, i have removed the
actual start & finish dates and the percentages using global change but cannot
remove the constraints ( 1500 of them) i have exported to excel and re-
imported but the constraints are still there, Is there any way to remove
constraints without removing every one individually.
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RE: What is a Hammock task ?
never change a WBS type-task into a Hammock task! (unsolicited advice)

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In short,
1. All predecessor relationships to a Hammock must be Start-to-Start (SS) with

zero lag.
2. All successor relationships from a Hammock must be Finish-to-Finish (FF)

with zero lag.
Any other relationships involving a Hammock will be ignored.
Good luck!
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Hi Raviraj
Constraints are a no no on the hammock itself, you can of course put constraints
on individual activities within the hammock.
SS and FF links are required in order for the hammock activity to calculate its
own value, much as a summary bar does.
You can also place any link type on any activity within the hammock but the
eariest starting activity is (WITHIN P3) always a SS link. The latest completion
link is similarly always a FF link on the hammock.
To ensure that you get these the correct way round I find it easiest to set up
the links from the actual hammock down to the individual activty rather from
the individual activites back up to the hammock.
Hope this clears it up for you.
Regards
Alan
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Hi Alan,
What you have written is absolutely true, But will you please elaborate us, what
do you mean by linking all activities as SS and FF to the Hammock Task.
Do you wanna say that we will freeze the hammock duration by putting a start
constraint to the hammock task? Is this what you wanna say.
Then what about the program logic?
Cheers,
Raviraj
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Hi,
As with all the other responses, you should understand now that a Hammock is in
effect a summary of a set of activities, it can be placed anywhere within the
project. However, what the previous correspondents have ommited to advise you
is the physical construction of a hammock.
Firstly ensure that you have set the activity type as Hammock, then for the
links, make sure the Predessor link on the hammock is your first activity within
the selected chain of events. Make this predecessor a Start to Start link within
the hammock. Then for the Successor, determine the final point in time for the
overall duration of the sequence of selected activities, this is not necessarily
the final logic linked item but the latest completion scheduled duration. This link
is then set as Finish to Finish.
When scheduled the hammock will automatically produce a start and end date/
time with a computed overall duration, this constantly varies during scheduling
to reflect the true actual duration.
Note that if your selected string of hammocked activities is volatile, ie

potentially change or overun original duration, then it is best, I find, to link ALL
activities as SS and FF to the Hammock task.
Hope this clears it up for you.
Regards
Alan
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Hammock is the summary of group of activities.
its predecessor is ss of first activty of the 1st activity of the group and
sucessor is the ff of the last activity of the group.
the usage depens on how effecently u use in the way u use
cheers!
Sridhar
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Hi
check this thread u will find lots of info about hammock activities
http://www.planningplanet.com/forum/forum_post.asp?fid=1&Cat=2&Top=34771
Regards
mangesh
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Hammocks are a summary of another set of activities.
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Hello,
For me hammock tasks are very important tasks for modelling the costs in
function of time. Changing the duration of hammock task (effected by another
tasks) can be a factor of changing the cost!
It is specially usefull in software with Monte Carlo simulation but not only then.
So, in summarise, I would like to tell that for me hammock tasks are interested
specially from dynamic point of view (PERT/MC), not static (CPM).
In usual, static schedules hammock tasks are for me very useful for modelling
the duration of main machines work, (specially heavy machines, f.e. cranes or
other more special equipment).

hi
Tom
from
Poland
P.S. In new P3 (in my PContractor) I dont’t see hammock tasks. I don’t

understand some big changes of P3 (and Pertmaster 8 too).
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Hi,
Hammocks are also used to assign resouces to a group of activity having common
set of resources.
Regards,
Ashraf
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RE: activities moving with data date line - cont
Yes,
And Target activities will stay in the same position without doing anything. You
see the most useful things in life comes FREE.
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Bijaya,
Ok, but I suppose the original question is how to hold or how to make the
activities in the target project to stay in place (original position), even when
moving the data date line (i mean in the Target Schedule itself).
regards
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Anoon,
I am not convinced as well. The best way is to keep the Target Programme
untouched. Always work in your current programme only. To safeguard your
target programme, you may even make it read only so that even if you open it, no
change will be saved.
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Mark,
if you’re not convinced, do you know any other solution? i mean i’m open. Target
Projects (in real life Planning) once set is seldom changed. It takes a lot of
arguments before anyone can get approval of a new Target Project!
are you Planning in real life Mark?

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Anoon,
I am not convinced you understand what Bijaya was saying. Any other version of
your plan can become a target. If defined as a target then a schedule in the
main plan won’t move the dates in the target. Of course if you are in your target
then a schedule can but defining extra constraints to your target is not the
best solution.
Mark
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never mind the place Bijaya, the issue is more important. Are you convince now
that you need constraints in order for your Target activities not to move?
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I will remember now - Anoon. By the way, are you really in the Antarctica?
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Bijaya,
You got the wrong spelling (ANOON), I know there’s another one with that name
(just copied it actually). Anyway, you might be right, but to make your Target
Program immovable, I think that’s the solution. And you can do whatever you
want with it without affecting the early dates that you had set. You can
estimate progress as you had planned it, in any date that you want and compare
it with your current schedule or your actual one.
regards
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Annon,
I think you are complicating things. Normally since you don’t need to touch the
target programme, you don’t need to constraint any programme in the target
programme. When you schedule your current programme, only the dates in the
current programme change/move to new data date.
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the solution is simple, put constraints on all of the activities of your Target
schedule, you can do whatever you want with the data date, but the activities
will surely not move (remember, constraints on your Target Schedule only)!
check the position of your current bar and your target bar (make sure you did
not use the same position).
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RE: Project / Activity Dates
Which probably means that you dont have any Early Constraints set
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i’m getting
invalid data item/value
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Needs to be
SNE EQ
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sorry Steven,
i’m getting an error the reads - Invalid Criteria Code
i have nothing other than SNE in that row now

under that row i have this:
MS EQ ES - 20
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yep
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Nothing, all it is doing is removing any existing constraints, as in P3 an activity
can only be assigned one type of constraint.
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what do i need to enter in the Data Item/Value column on the same row as SNE?
i.e
then SNE EQ ___
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If you are trying to overrule the logic of your schedule, you will need to use
Mandatory Constraints.
On the change tab of Global change
If Act Cn "SYS"
Then SNE = ’ Removes any existing constraints

MS = ES - 20
Then re-schedule
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that is correct
- sorry if i’m talking in riddles
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To try and phrase your question into english, is it
If
Activity ID Contains "SYS"
Then
Constrain the start to 20 days prior to the current early start ?
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RE: Mandatory or Early constraint...
Thanks Nigel !
Actually it could mean that my sbucontractor is keeping some float in his

pockets or maybe (and I think that’s the case) he’s a bit confused in his
sequence of scheduling.
Thanks anyway guys for your participation !

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Nicolas
From your reply, it sounds like the contractor has ’forced’ his programme to
meet the end date. Without the constraints, it finished earlier. This PROBABLY
means that he has a lot of float that he is hiding - or making an allowance for
lateness.
Done similar things but not with mandatory constraints.
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Nicolas
I would like to clarify what a Mandatory constraint does to a P3 schedule.
A Mandatory constraint stops float (negative or positive) calculating through

the task with the mandatory constraint.
A Mandatory constraint in the middle of a chain will break the chain and the
float calculations will start again at the constraint. Normally this is not a good
practice.
Paul E Harris
www.eh.com.au
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So I removed all those "Mandatory constraints"...they all had predecessors...

But result is, the sequence has changed and Finish date is 2 month earlier.
And all those milestones are now spread out.

This schedule must be rework...
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Bon Chance
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I Understand and I am agree !
Thanks, I’ll check it out right now...

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Nicolas
A mandatory constraint is not as flexible as an early constraint. A mandatory

constraint will affect the programme logic a lot more than an early constraint.
If your contractor has used that many mandatory constraints it suggests that
there is a problem with his logic and he is using the constraints to ’force’ the
logic to work.
If it was me, I would make a copy, remove a section of the constraints and re-
schedule. See how far out his logic is.
I generally use two mandatory constraints - Project Start and Project Finish
and then only to force the float.
Cheers
Nige
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profile or Early constraint...
Hi everyone,
I’d like to know practically for what reason we should use Mandatory
Contraints ?
I have always used Early constraints...
My sub-contractor has given me a schedule (1000 activities)with a least 50

Mandatory constraints...how to consider this knowing that those milestones are
not contractual ?
What should I suggest to my Subcontractor as comments ?
Thanks by advance
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RE: Constraints, CPM or Barchart
Eric,
A very nice effort! You have made one error twice. Under Items 1 & 3 (Early
Start & Early Finish Constraints), "Logic Calculation", you state that "P3 allies it
only during the backward scheduling calculation." I think you meant to state
during the FORWARD calculation.
I also would recommend that you recommend that only the least constraining
constraint be used when applying constraints. Use a Start No Earlier Than
instead of a Start ON if it will suffice.
Ron Winter.
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Attached is a comprehensive write-up by myself regarding Using Constraints in
P3. This is a serious topic which many people ignored and misused. I am also
welcome feedbacks.
Go to the
http://www.htcprojectcontrols.com/TTB2004-4.pdf
(Note that I have made the corrections based on Ron’s comments. Thanks.)
Eric Chou, PE
HTC Project Controls, Inc.
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Constraints is mainly useful for the following conditions:
1)To specify contractual dates/dates which are not directly in your control
2)During updating of schedules,when any of the activity is not very much

relevant but the progress is not 100% becos of the Progress Measurement
system.For example mainly engg activities.
Regards
Mani
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One example of where I use constraints is where the date may not be achieved
by relationships and often they may be found in contracts. For example:
1. The availability of a site from the client.

2. The required date that a project or part of a project must be complete by.
3. A date legislated by a government by which certain work must be completed
by.
4. A date that a subcontractor states he or some equipment etc will be available
on or must be released by.
Regards
Paul E Harris
www.eh.com.au
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One of the important uses of a CPM schedule is to display the cause and effect
relationship of unexpected events and local delays to overall project delay.
If your schedule uses non-mandated constraints, then the effect of delaying

activities in one area may not show the effects in another area. In this case,
what you have is a barcharting program, not a CPM.
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hi...
the constraint is useful when you couldnt define a suitable predecessors for
activities and you wanna the specify specific date for acitivity.
but in some cases, constraints broke the chain of activities and make a negetive
TF to network that we have to fix the problems by using the corrected type of
constraints.
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RE: Contraints
Hi...
Constraint is one of the most useful feature of a planning software if use

properly. The problem is some planner is tempted to use this feature
unnecessarily for the sake of ease.
regards,
kabayan
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Hi Kabayan,
I believe constraints is not about advantages or disadvantages. This is about the

nature of the beast.
Ideally, schedules should be prepared with less constraints in order for you to
have a dynamic schedule wherein any change to your schedule could be reflected
on the entire project. But reality is not like this. For ex. NTP is usually
constrained as early start in P3 or start no earlier than constraint in MSP. Some
planners uses a more inflexible constraint such as mandatory start or finish.
Project deliverables may be constrained as mandatory.
What I mean here kabayan is, it depends on the nature of activities. In

scheduling, constraints makes your plan stiff and inflexible
Regards,
Se
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Moises:
The only thing I can tell you about that is that you need to verify their validity,
and whether they are mandatory or preferential constraints. Can the
preferential constraints be eliminated and not put an unneeded burden on the
schedule?
Tomas Rivera
Altek System
Scehduling of high performance

construction projects
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Perhaps I am misunderstanding your question, but a schedule without logical
restraints is just a picture. You need constraints to perfom critical path analysis.
[edit]I see I did mis-understand the question. I was referring to predecessor/

successor relationships.[/edit]
Bernard Ertl
InterPlan Systems Inc. - Project Management Software, Project Planning
Software
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RE: Milestones met w/ negative float during leveling
I have no further hint on that. I guess it is related with the options you can set
in the level comand window.
BR
JMFrade
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Thanks for the input, Jose.
The constraints I’ve used are not mandatory. They will push (and subsequently
show neg. float) when network logic delays them. However, your point has led me
to another idea. Maybe the constraints will automatically NOT push due to
resource leveling alone. In other words, the negative float reflects the need for
additional resources in order to meet the dates shown. Unfortuntately, this is
not what I want it to do. I’d like to find a way to make the program optimize the
resources based on hitting the constraint dates.
Anyway, thanks again!

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Hello Eitel,
I guess the constraints mentioned by you are set as mandatory. in this case P3
will not move them no mather the relations you have established. Instead, the
negative floats are mentioned for the affected activities. Suggestion: release
the constraints and recalculate again.
I hope this could help in any way.
Best regards
JMFrade
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Milestones met w/ negative float during leveling
I am running "P5" and have created a resource leveled project. The project has
multiple intermediate milestones with "Finish on or before" constraints. I’ve set
the project to run based on pure network logic, limited only by max units/time
for any given resource. In other words, given unlimited resources, the project
shows that it can be completed much earlier than in reality. By leveling,
however, priorities are set to total float, then early start, and finally by activity
priority code. In the leveling resources box, all options remain unchecked.
Here’s the problem: When trying to optimize(read minimize) my resources

throughout the project, at some point I end up in a situation where all my
constraint dates (intermediate milestones) are being met, but "pockets" of
activities are showing up with negative float. It would seem to me that the
activities would just slip to later dates until the milestone dates were violated,
then show negative float. Instead, dates for activities remain relatively the
same and negative float pops up.
Can anybody shed some light on this?

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RE: RE: Mandatory Constraints
Whew! Well said, Paul!
Jorge
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I am not a great supporter of “Scheduling Rules”, but I do feel it is important to
understand how constraints work and then it is possible to explain to clients why
the constraints are selected and what effect they have on the schedule.
During the forward and backward pass the Early and Late dates are calculated
and in P3, it is important to understand this process to understand how
constraint operate:
Early Start and Finish constraints operate on the Early date calculations.
Late Start and Finish constraints operate on the Late date calculations.
Start and Expected finish date constraints operate on both Early and Late
dates and are effectively applying Early and Late constraint at the same time
but still allow float calculation to pass through them.
A mandatory constraint operates differently to other constraints. Mandatory

constraints do not allow float calculations to pass through them. A mandatory
constraint in the middle of a schedule will effectively break the schedule in too
two separate forward and backward pass calculations.
Zero Free float makes the activity As Late as Possible by absorbing all the Free
Float, in MSP an As Late as Possible constraint absorbs all the Total Float and
delays all the successor activities, P3 only delays the task with the constraint.
Zero Total Float sets the late dates to equal the early dates so an activity with
this constraint will not display any float.
The final constraint that may be applied to a schedule is a Project Must Finish
by date which imposes a Late Finish on all project tasks and float is calculated
to this date when set, otherwise float is calculated to the last activity in the
Critical Path.
I suggest that you play with a small schedule and get to understand how the
constraints work and then apply the most suitable constraint to the environment
and explain with authority why a particular constraint has been used.
Regards

Paul E Harris
www.eh.com.au
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How about the usage of mandatory constraints in a schedule. normally i use the
mandatory constraints for a certain milestones and project finish dates. But,
recently, had a dispute with my client regarding this. It is said that the
mandatory constraint will reflect a wrong logic when the activities get delayed.
instead they want me to use early / late constraints. but in case of early / late
constraints the schedule will never be critical pushing the finsih date as the
project gets delayed keeping the lag intact. but still i would like to get some
ideas of you, experts about the usage of mandatory constraints.
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RE: Expected finish constraint
You got me right Sen,

In any event I will be extremely careful using this method, and I hope if any of
you tries the same, to get news from you so I can improve my method of
planning.
Cheers to all!
Yves
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Alex,
Yves already clarified that the “constraint” was only applied on the activities
that “has started”. Refer to post#12, second sentence. By this, he meant that
he wanted to maintain the finish dates of the updated task…well, hoping that
the finished dates or remaining durations were already confirmed.
Cheers!
Sen
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Yves,
If your project is almost on schedule, the way you use is good. If you have lot of
activities delayed,ahead or out of sequence,what you do will give you wrong
forecast.
I used this kind of method before but only for some activities as someone
mentioned before,e.g. procurement,delivery...(but if i have more information
about these activities, i will update them manually)
Anyway,you need to update progress according to what actually happened.
You can use this method,after that remove the constraints,then check your
schedule,do some manual update if needed.
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Yves
Let me guess, what you try to do is to maintain the schedule in a fastest way
where when the schedule change data date you want the finish date more or
less same as before prior to schedule except the updated task.
From what I can see and experienced, during this process, you may lost some of
the critical path activity. Ie prior to last update certain activity may be not fall
into the CP and if you maintain those date and thinking they are mostly on track
then you may miss report the end date. I guess what others are very correct is
to avoid using constraint during or after progress update; except some of the
critical dates such as milestone, equipment delivery date etc...
Remember there is no short cut comes to updating your schedule.

You have to update all activities in order to see the full picture of the CPM
network. Of course some data will not be availiable, then you have to have a
educated guess, but still you need to update it all.
HTH
Alex
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To All
From all of that I swear to you I will not keep those Expected constraints more
than: the minute before I reschedule... and the minute after it has been
recheduled.
Yves
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In calculating that estimated value of effort, I deduct the end date of that
started activity. The moment after, I push my data date. I hope my mind will
not have change in between.
That is the only point I’m trying to validate
...Or as you say, I miss the point!
Regards
Yves
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Hello Yves
I support 100% the ideas here refering that you should avoid the use of
constraints.
Even though I can support your idea of expected finish constraint in one case:
After placing the Purchase Order for a certain equipment to be supplied by

external contractor.
Assuming that the informations you are getting from the field confirm that the
contractual delivery time remains - then i would accept, after the manufacturing
phase realy started (actual start) to use the expected finish date.
Meanhwile, periodic updates from the supplier will need to be checked for
accuracy and consistency towards the constraint.
Please be aware that P3.1 will update automaticaly the activity during the
further updates of the project but when the expected date arrives it places
there automaticaly 100% (even though displays an error message concerning
that particular activity in the reschedule log.
Best regards
JMFrade
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I think that you are missing the point of updating your plan. It is not merely to
confirm the date you had on your last update, but must be a researched and
validated estimate of the amount of effort required to complete a task.
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I guess Sen has got what I have in mind. The Expected "constraint" in this case
is no more than planning the remaining duration of an activity just started. By
setting a duration we already "constraint" that activity with a "fixed duration
constraint" and we know we will have to correct that duration right after
rescheduling. But when using Expected finish constraint, we avoid to recalculate
that specific activity.
Again, in almost no case I would use and even accept "hard" constraints.
Thank you all for your comments
YVes

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It seems to me that Yves has found a way to ease the work in updating a
schedule. I myself did an updating of schedule and ‘twas pain in the butt
rechecking the logics and finish dates after inputting the actual dates especially
for those activities that are out of sequence.
What Yves did was to identify those activities that will not anymore be
completed as per original plan. In my opinion, temporary constraining some
activities for the purpose of updating the schedule is ok.
Just make sure to remove them after the schedule has been finalized and
before issuing to the client/project manager.
Cheers!
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RE: RE: P3 / MSProject 2002
Hi Anita,
A few differences between Primavera & MS Project:
PROJECT LEVEL
- Enhanced Security
- Concurrent Multi-user
- Specify Both Project Start & Finish Dates
- Correct Total Float
ACTIVITY LEVEL
- 9 Activity Types (vs. 2)
- Multiple Relationships between activities
- Accurate Late Dates for all activities
- Advanced Constraints and Multiple Constraints per Activity
- Suspend & Resume
- Automatic & Manual Scheduling
- Advanced PERT Features
RESOURCE & COST

- Central Database
- Advanced Resource & Cost Profiles (S-Curves, Resource Load Analysis)
- Dynamic What-If
- Advanced Leveling (More Control & Better Results)
REPORTS
- Tabular: 101 Predefined
- Graphical: 47 Predefined
- Advanced S-Curve
- Earned Value Analysis
- Web Publishing Wizard
- Cross-Project Reports
In summary, MS Project is easy to learn because it has much less features. But
when you try to use it on an actual construction project, you will find it severely
wanting and incapable of doing what you need.
One the other hand, Primavera & SureTrak, are the established project
management software for the construction industry worldwide simply because
these software products have been proven to work.
Best regards,
Jorge

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The Planning Planner Team is currently in the process of creating a software
comparison tool for all members to use. Please take a minute to review the
current proposal and add your input so that this software comparison tool will
be useful for you:
Software Evaluation Tool Discussion
Bernard Ertl
InterPlan Systems Inc. - Project Management Software, Project Planning
Software
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There might be some comparisons that Primavera would be willing to send you.
You can write them and ask. Go to primavera.com and post your querry.
If you have current P3 maintenance, then you could probably search for the info
yourself at their knowledgebase. I have seen some confidential comparisons
made but Im not at liberty to reveal.
If you have a P3 dealer near you, theyre sure to have access to this information.
Jorge
Crown Systems (Philippines)
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Anita,
All depends on the structure and information needed within the different levels
of your company. Both software packages (P3 and MSP 2002) can be delivered in
a "normal" version or the Enterprise version. A combination of both (P3e with
"normal" MSP 2002) might be an option but a formal procedure for the
definition of the activities and codes needs to be in place. Based on your few
lines I cant give you more info, but Im well prepared to react to a more detailed
e-mail.
ARAM Planning Consultants is already working for several UK based construction

and claim companies.
Let me know if your interrested and need more info.

Bye,
Ed van der Tak

ARAM Planning Consultants
The Netherlands
e.vandertak @aramplan.com
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Hi Anitha,
Though i have not used MS2002 extensively,but a review of the software

suggest it is definetly inferior to P3.
I find P3 an excellent tool for network analysis and this is what is required to
control and monitor a project.
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At present we are looking at changing/updating our Planning package we
currently use P3 though other parts of the company use MSP 98/2k.
My question really has anyone used 2002 and what your thoughts are on the
package. Have done a bit of reseach on P3e, but would like to hear the verdict
on 2002.
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Delay Analysis Software
In most cases in the US, the contractor is the one who creates and maintains
the schedule and the Owner (or their Construction Manager representative) has
the option to review these schedules. This means that the schedule can (and
usually should) change from update to update to reflect the most current
information.
In any given update, it is possible that relationships were modified, activities

added or deleted, activity durations changed; the list is endless. This is usually
the case when the Contractor decides to change his workplan or has unexpected
work added to the contract.
In fact, it is also possible that actual data shown on previous updates has also
been changed. Perhaps this was to correct an earlier error. Perhaps the data
was changed inadvertently. Perhaps the change was made to cover-up a delay
from the Contractor or to prove a delay by the Owner.
Regardless of the reason, for the change, the first step in the review process is
to notice the change. Then you can decide for yourself if the change is
acceptable. Until you spot the changes, you are at a distinct disadvantage in
dealing with the schedule.
This process if spotting changes is very difficult to do manually. In fact, it is

practically impossible to do this manually with a 100% accuracy rate. That is why
there are companies that sell software that do this for you. Look to the web to
see more about the following three packages.
Schedule Analyzer Pro at www.RonWinterConsulting.com

Claim Digger at www.hstsoftware.com
Investigator at www.primaplan.com
They all work on P3 schedules.

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Delay Analysis
Nishikant:
Let me start by saying that I have been the planner and/or the executor in all
the projects I have been involved. Therefore, I have been in charge of the
schedule all the time. I know how the schedule was developed and what changes
are being made to it.
In the case you just analyze a schedule developed and updated by someone else,
this would require to perform the work in a different way. I would separate my
effort in two parts. One would be the review or analysis of the initial or target
schedule. The second part would be analyzing updates.
For the initial schedule, I would look for preferential relationships or
constraints in several ways. One would be to group activities by discipline or
trade. This way I would be looking at activities with similar logic or construction
sequences. Then I would question this logic or relationships to see whether they
are strictly required or not. An example of a mandatory relationship is having
the formwork in place before the concrete pour. An example of a preferential
relationship might be to pour footing B after pouring footing A. This kind of
questioning might arise an argument between the contractor and the consultant
and get to issues of at least two types. One type is technical issues that very
well might have a solution. The other type is management issues. The contractor
might say: I have the right to decide the way I am going to do my job as long as
I meet the contractual requirements (i.e. the finish date). I am not sure how to
resolve this one. But you might say that if the critical path ends up having
preferential relationships, and therefore the job can be done in a different way
without causing a delay, then this is, in a way, not a valid delay.
Let us jump to the second part of the analysis: the schedule updates. After
having agreed upon an initial or target schedule, probably the best way to look
for changes to the schedule would be to use a software package specifically
designed for this purpose. I believe a couple of third parties listed in the
Primavera site sell this kind of software. Once you identify the changes in logic
you can question their validity.
I am sure and hope this message will arise some comments.
Tomas Rivera
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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Delay Analysis
Hi Gents,
In addition to the very much valuable advice that was given, another important
thing to do is to revise cycle durations and rates to verify if they were properly
planned or not and also to see if the contractor and engineer are working
according to planned durations or not.
Main items to look for would be:

* Material submittal approval
* Shop Drawing preparation
* Shop Drawing submittal approval
* P/O, manufacturing and deilvery cycle
* Installation productivity rates specifically for concrete pouring
If any of the engineering or procurement activities are not represented in the

schedule, this could likely be a reason for not showing exactly where the delays
are coming from.
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what i meant was how can anyone track the changes apart form the updates
made periodically ( read , weekly and monthly )by my contractor to the schedule
because of the so called " Preferential constraints ".
what i want to do is to find out the reasons in terms of Logic, ( and if any wrong
constraints that may have been put )that results in showing me a delay .
cos there may be wrong constraint put into the schedule that may affect the
entire critical path.
How can i track them?????? .
I short , How do i reconcile the delays and have a thorough check on what my
contractor has put forward me.
please advise.
Nishi.
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RE: RE: RE: Delay Analysis
Nishikant:
I was thinking that you were in charge of the schedule. Also, I understood that
your schedule, or your project, was being delayed all the time and you had to
make changes to your logic in order to avoid reflecting so much delay as you
mentioned.
Before going any further, let us clarify the situation. You said that your project
was running into delay with negative floats of 107, 133, 150. You also said that
you were minimizing any further durations on the critical path by reducing
constraints on activities.
The above tells me that you were aware of changes made to the logic. Now in
your reply you tell me that you might not know whether your contractor makes
changes to the schedule. So, do you sometimes know of changes and sometimes
you might not know?
You are just analizing delays or are you also involved in changing the schedule to
look for ways of meeting the deadline?
If you can give me more information I will be able to give a better opinion.
Tomas Rivera
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Thomas , Thanks for the reply, but coud you be more specific.
Do you mean that these preferntial constraints can be removed by my
conttractor as he pleases without us realising this.
And how can i track any changes in constraints that he has made and to what
activities,,Plz, advise.
I am not clear on this issue Plz.
Thanks again.
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RE: Delay Analysis
Nishikant:
I have the suspicion that you have in your schedule too many preferential (as
opposed to mandatory) constraints or relationships, which at the end you are
able to drop or remove. If this is occuring too often, then people at the site are
executing your project in a different way you prefered to do.
I try not to include preferential constraints or relationships unless are deemed
important for ssome reason. By doing this I give latitude to the field people to
decide for themselves.
Tomas Rivera
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Hello Specialists,
I am running out of knowledge for Delay analysis. My project is running into

delay with -ve floats of 107, 133,158 days for Construction, Procurement and
Engineering.
I will appreciate any suggestions in this subject which apart from the regular
practice of tracking the activities with negative total floats and minimising any
further durations on the critical path by reducing the constraints on activities.
Thanks in advance guys.
Cheers.
Nihikant
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RE: Float Constraints
Sorry, I did not understand.

An example - just in time work. You apply ALAP attribute to some activities if
you want them to be executed "just in time".
Another example - you may want to optimize project cash flow moving expenses
as late as possible without violating project finish date.
Vladimir
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Vladimir, I am asking about the usefulness for using a planning construct
(forcing tasks to be critical by moving their ES/EF to match their LS/LF) in
developing a project schedule - not about analyzing total float.
Bernard Ertl
eTaskMaker Project Planning Software
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Bernard,
I don’t understand the difference between project management and project
planner views.
One of the simple useful things - we usually suggest to check if activity total
float is too large. It may mean that some dependencies are omitted.
Resource constrained total floats are similar to feeding buffers in Critical Chain
project management theory.
It is easy to check which activities constitute resource critical path for any
project phase - they belong to the phase and have the same total float as the
phase as whole.
Vladimir
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David, OK. I see that your method for forcing a critical path is to adjust the LS/
LF instead of ES/EF. Sort of like an imposed, dynamic finish date constraint
equal to the EF. I can see the usefulness for that.
What I have seen with some systems is the ability to set a float constraint that
moves the ES/EF to the latest possible moment effectively delaying the task
and all successors.
Vladimir, the question is aimed from the planner/scheduler perspective - not

management’s. Is such a construct practical for modeling some real project
scenario?
I’m thinking not. It (and the "not greater than" float filter I proposed) seems
to me to be a feature that would be more useful for "gaming" the schedule than
modeling any real logic. Although, I am interested to hear if someone has some
project experience that could show otherwise.
Bernard Ertl
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Bernard,
resource constrained total floats show feasible time reserves you have on any
schedule activity. This information is used when you consider potential delays in
connection with change requests, risk events, resource workload, etc. Please
clarify what to explain.
Total floats calculated by most PM software do not consider resource
constraints on the backward path and thus are useless if resources are limited.
If you mean this kind of total floats then I agree that they cannot be utilised.
Vladimir
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Bernard...
I hope I am not getting mixed up about what you are saying, if so I apologise
and also if I am teaching you to suck eggs!
Imagine a project that has two or more buildings, each have to be handed over
separately on different dates. The final activity in each string would be a
handover milestone. I would mark that milestone ‘ASAP force critical’ (that is a
Powerproject term but I am sure other software have similar features). This
results in the network still being dynamic but the critical path being highlighted
through the string.
Your filtering code sounds interesting but in general I am wary about filters.
Too much experience in opening programmes that don’’ seem quite right only to
discover some dodgey filter has been applied to manipulate the programme in
some way.
Regards
David
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I am sure that total float reserves are most useful in schedule
management.
Vladimir, does this statement imply that you have seen total float constraints
employed in a schedule to model a real world situation? Could you elaborate?
David, if your software allowed you the ability to highlight critical logic paths
through subsections of an overall schedule (say filtered by a sort code), would
you still find a total float constraint useful? If I understood you correctly, you
are changing the ES/EF for a section of the schedule just to highlight it. That
seems dangerous to me from a risk perspective.
Bernard Ertl
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Bernard
I use ’force critical’ where I have a project with a number of sectional

completion dates so I can see a critical path for each section. Does that make
sense?
I try not to use ’must complete by’ type restraints, as I don’t like the concept
of negative float (that’s just a personal preference).
David
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Bernard,
you described Spider Project approach to ALAP scheduling. I am sure that total
float reserves are most useful in schedule management. And of course total
floats should be calculated taking into consideration all project constraints
including resource, financial and supply constraints and imposed dates.
But if a single activity has ALAP attribute it wll use only free float.
Vladimir
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I understand where constraining the free float to zero (aka ALAP scheduling in
most software that offer it) can be useful in planning some scenarios. However,
I have never encountered a situation where constraining the total float to zero
(forcing it to be critical) would be desired. Does anyone use this in practice?
Can you provide an example where this is a useful construct?
What if a software allowed you to specify a "no greater than" total float
constraint? Would that be useful?
Bernard Ertl
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RE: Madatory Constraint
Hi gracia,
Mandatory Start and Finish constraints completely override network logic and
do not allow for float calculations. Suggest that your contractor should have
used START ON or START NO EARLIER THAN or START NO LATER THEN
constraints.
NOTE: Mandatory Start and Finish constraints do not obey CPM rules. The
activity configured in this manner will be scheduled to start on the date given
even if all predecessors are not complete. START ON constraints work the
same as a MANDATORY START but also obey CPM logic rules.
START NO EARLIER THAN allows for float calculation in delay direction and
START NO LATER THAN allows for float calculation in the accelerate direction.
So, yes of course, program submitted is technically and legally correct.
Cheers,
Raviraj A Bhedase
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I need to refesh my point, the contractor has submitted the schedule without
mandatory date constraint in the start date and finished date,
Is this type of schedule valid? Legally or Technically!!

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Mandatory or Early Constraint
Date Constraints
Bernard Ertl
InterPlan Systems
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Madatory
profile Constraint
HI,
Some of the planners say that a mandatory constraint shall be imposed at the
end of project activity and others say not.
If ill be the one to ask , it should be..
What is your say..

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RE: Planning books
Dennis Lock
Project Management
Generally a very good book, easily available on amazon, and relatively cheap. This
was the guided reading for Project Management in my Mech Eng Degree, and a
surprising number of people have a copy tucked away somewhere.
Alternatively, just have a bash ! It may not be easy, but CFD it aint !
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Dear Sir,
May I have acopy of the tutorials at rumimallick@gmail.com
Thanx in advance.
Regards
Rumi
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Help me with the materials droping a copy at narnor2002@yahoo.com
cheers
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im just a beginner in this field, anyone out there don’t mind to share his planning
notes?
ca_gerardo@yahoo.com
tanx in advance guys!!!

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RE: Planning books
Hi can u aso mail a copy to Sivaguru_r_be@yahoo.com
Thanks in Advance,
Bye
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Good Morning all. Could you dropme a cop at jdadzok@yahoo.com
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Please mail me at m.haries07@gmail.com
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Hi
Can I have a copy also. Your help is highly appreciated
Ranga Ran
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RE: Level 3, 4 & 5 planning.
have a look at this

http://www.planningengineers.org/publications/papers.aspx
Personally
I always hammock down or up to get my levels

that way you dont have different programmes its all on the same page dead easy
for progress monitoring and as builts.
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yes. i also find this classification of L1, L2.. L5 schedule very vague. the most
"defined" classifaction i hv come across was this;
L1: (Owner’s) Development Programme (probably each project/subproj

represented by 1 bar)
L2: L1 + Design/Procurement + Construction detail to major discipline
L3: (Contractor’s) Construction Programme = L2 + Construction detail to floor/
area/zone, and trade/system
L4: (Contractor’s) Monthly Programme = Extract of L3 for 3 months (1 + 2
months Lookahead), detail to weekly work plan for current month.
L5: (Contractor’s) Weekly Programme = Extract of L4 for the month, detail to
daily site work plan for current week.
I find this classification suitably definitive, the only thing i m not sure is... as a
contractor preparing L3...
must we incorporate the the monthly details of L4 and weekly details of L5 into
the L3?
Any ideas guys?

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RE: Level 3, 4 & 5 planning.
Guys,
L1 = Overall Project Master Programme

L2 = Summary Programme
a. design
b. production or construction
c. procurement
L3 = Detail Progamme
a. design
b. production or construction
c. procurement
L4 = Specific/Constraints Term
L5 = Subcontractors own Detailed Programme
Mabuhay!!!
Rommel
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Hi Neil,
Each WBS "level" is an increase in the amount of detail which an activity is sub-
divided or grouped (if that makes any sense). A "level" is based on a WBS chart,
where any group summary name that resides on the same row is also on the same
"level". Each subsequent row of names equates to a new "level". Example:
L1 = CAR
L2 = Mechanical Electrical
L3 = ENGINE,BODY ECU, INSTRUMENTS
L4 = Further subdivisions of each component.
The number of "levels" that you have is wholly dependent upon how how many
groupings and sub-groupings you wish to include by the time you reach the
individual deliverable. However, you can execute a project and plan a project at
any desired level. But the higher the level (3,4,5 ish), the less detail and
definition is contained within the activity description. As a rough guide, you are
correct in that, down to level 4/5, the activities may be poorly defined. Level 10
is probably excessively detailed.
HTH
James.
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Neil
If you have a look here, for an article by Gary France entitled "Standards for
the Levels of a Programme or Schedule" it may help you.
http://www.planningengineers.org/publications/papers.aspx
Cheers
Nige
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Level 3, 4 & 5 planning.
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To all planners,
Being a rookie in the business, could anyone please educate me on the distinct
differences between level 3, 4 & 5 planning. My belief is that level 3 is planning
at a WBS level. Planning with activities below this - 5-10 approx. will be level 4
and level 5 is very detailed planning.
Could anyone please point me in the right direction on this one, please?
Cheers
Neil
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RE: Bridge Construction Duration
Damien,
I think it will go to 10 months.
This is because of a lot of preliminary works: traffic diversion,
Also depends on construction methodology:
Sub-structure: bored piles or others
Superstructures: segment erections?? or precast girders??
How about method statements, influence of safety, environmnet (HSE) in

construction activities.
Cheers,
Charlie
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Dear Richard & Rashid,
Many thanks for your comments.
Richard, yes the motorway is fully operational. I’d say night time closures are
possible.
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Damian
Is the motorway fully operational? If so what are the constraints set out by the
operator of the motorway?
Simplistically when I was working on roads and bridges we used to talk in round
terms in UK of 3 month bridges (usually single span footbridges with few
constraints), 6 month bridges (similar to what you have set out) and then longer
for multispan or very complex bridges where you need to go into it in detail
from the outset.
Unless there are excessive constraints from the motorway operator, I would

say use 6 months.
Richard
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I have been on a Motorway Project in Pakistan which had a number of bridges
and flyovers. I remember correctly that the average duration for flyovers i.e.
two abutments and one pier was 4 months and for an addiotnal span it was
another 2 months.
This may give you an idea but you know it is highly dependable on many things.
(and please note that this time is not taking account of piling, grider casting and
stresseing as another team was doing it and was in a lead of few months to
these strcuture guys.)
Rashid
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Without going into too much detail, what would be the expected build time for
constructing a bridge (4 lane ) over a motorway. The bridge length is 40 metres
and the embankements are already in place, all is required is to excavate to
install the foundation and abutments.
Many thanks
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RE: Advice on Scheduling for my Masters Degree
Alex,
activity critical path and resource critical path (critical chain) may be different.
Please clarify your question. I don’t understand it.
Activity Critical Path is defined by the network logic and time constraints, it
does not take into consideration resource limitations at all.
Vladimir
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Vladimir
I was thinking in the CPM, you may or may not have fully resource driven activity
as a result the activity critical path may not necessary driven by the resource
critical path.
Any thoght??
Alex
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Alex,
Activity Critical Path is the particular case of Resource Critical Path when
resources are unlimited (if their availability exceeds requirements).
Critical Chain takes into account resource constraints.
We call as Critical Path (Resource Critical Path) the longest path (activity
sequence) in the schedule that takes into account all project limitations (project
logic, calendars, time constraints, resource constraints, supply consraints,
financial constraints).
Regards,
Vladimir
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Vladimir
Your post kept me thinking whether a Activity Critical Path is always driven by
the resource criticial path.
Anythough... Everyone
Alex
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Thank you all for your valuable advice.
It is very much appreciated.
Kindest Regards
Neil
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Hi Neil,
I think you should consider the topic "Management by Objective"
A lot of planning schedule were generated but the will to achieve what was
planned seems none existence. The weekly objective not achieved, the monthly
objective not achieve, the three months - six months objective not achieve.
So in your research, try to consider the HOW to achieve deterministic and

probabilistic schedule. This may involve a closer look on the real/actual
management set-up and philosphy, not the brochure or propaganda materials
that construction companies attached in compayny profile to get invitation to
bid or proposal.
Cheers,
Charlie
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Which approach is better depends on the type of your project, environment,

required detail, ....
If your project is in a close environment like in factory and task duration has a
low variability (using machine), i suggest deterministic scheduling. I think this is
maybe why your company uses deterministic scheduling besides the fact that it
is very simple. However, you can read more about the pros and cons of the two
methods on the following webpage.
http://www.chachris.com/probabilisticscheduling_files/detervbprobscheduling.
htm
good luck with your MSC.
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Stephen,
look at http://www.spiderproject.ru/library/tt.doc
In this paper I briefly described our approaches to corporate project
management. Risk simulation section is about buffer setting and management
that we call Success Driven Project Management (SDPM).
Spider Project calculates Resource Critical Path since 1992.
In 1997 Goldratt called Resource Critical Path as Critical Chain. But it is not
easy to calculate and Goldratt did not suggest any algorithms. His concept of
drum resource may work in manufacturing but not in projects.
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Vladimir,
Indeed, you are correct about both my specifying Resource Critical Path (I tend
to assume everyone knows that’s what I mean when talking about a working
schedule, but you are correct), and the point about multitasking sometimes
being the best solution. Indeed, if the task is not on the Resource Critical Path,
it may well be the best solution.
The trouble is, if (as is often/usually the case) the assigned resources are ALL
routinely multitasked, it is impossible to know what the true Resource Critical
Path would be if NONE were multitasked. So, in practice, the cost of delay due
to resource insufficiencies on the critical path are hidden by the multitasking.
First, the Resource Critical Path should be determined without multitasking, and
then appropriate places for multitasking off the CP can be determined.

But I’m also keen to find out your further elaboration on estimating buffers.
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Stephen,
I agree with most things that you wrote except suggested too simplistic
approach to estimating necessary buffers. And Critical Path shall be replaced by
Resource Critical Path. If you optimized resource constrained schedule and this
schedule suggests some multitasking then it is the best solution. I would not
state that multitasking is always bad.
Regards,
Vladimir
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PlanningPlanet Forum

which means that a certain physical activity is a composition of several elements

may it be in time, (when calculated in terms of float / CPM), or maybe in

file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post[31].html (1 of 6)10/02/2008 8:47:46 PM

RE: critical path

have a nice day!

file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post[31].html (2 of 6)10/02/2008 8:47:46 PM

RE: critical path

You never seen an Igloo?

As planners we must simplify complex situations so that Managers can Manager

file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post[31].html (3 of 6)10/02/2008 8:47:46 PM

RE: critical path

1) "It’s not clear to me why uncertainty/variability on resource availability is any

it’s good to warm up a monday morning!

file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post[31].html (4 of 6)10/02/2008 8:47:46 PM

RE: critical path

It’s not clear to me why uncertainty/variability on resource availability is any

a. An optimized schedule can often "pull" an activity’s dates to a resource’s early

b. In the Total Project Control approach, it is absolutely crucial to identify and

file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post[31].html (5 of 6)10/02/2008 8:47:46 PM

d. In a continuing and multiprojected organization, it is crucial to collect data

Examine 2 3 4 [Next >>]

file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post[31].html (6 of 6)10/02/2008 8:47:46 PM

file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post.html (1 of 4)10/02/2008 8:47:49 PM

RE: Setting-Baseline that has Actuals and Constraints in P6

Just a quickie Anoon,

’relatively’ is very subjective!!!

file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post.html (2 of 4)10/02/2008 8:47:49 PM

I am just trying to set-up a baseline (I supposed to be ideal), but I realized that

I hope I made myself clear.

file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post.html (3 of 4)10/02/2008 8:47:49 PM

I hope this helps,

somehow, i believe that an ideal Baseline has no constraints or actuals (but in

file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post.html (4 of 4)10/02/2008 8:47:49 PM

Primavera Contractor allows a number of new features not available in SureTrak

There are hierarchical Activity Codes but no Activity ID Codes.

You may only have one project open at a time

The product is fairly click happy which makes it difficult to be productive It

There are no Roles which are found in the Enterprise version.

file:///C|/Downloads/constraints/forum_post[0].html (1 of 3)10/02/2008 8:47:51 PM

RE: Primavera Contractor 5.0

Not having used Contractor, I can already start a list of defects:

My trouble with P6 is the price. Can’t afford a US$5,000 product to do the

Beware of Contractor: it does not have a resource leveling capability.

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I’ve been scheduling and monitoring progress on several construction projects

I’ll appreciate any comments.

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Heide, Thanks for the advise. - Amar.

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RE: Enterprise resoruce levelling

In p3 e&c ver 4.1,

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RE: Enterprise resoruce levelling

I’ve been reading your question

Thanks agian for the collaboaration and support.

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RE: Enterprise resoruce levelling

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Thank you both...Brilliant....now sorted

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