1973-062506 Complete

877
EXPENDITURE COMMITTEE
(EMPLOYMENT AND SOCIAL
SERVICES SUB-COMMITTEE)
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE
Wednesday 6th February, 1974
Session 1973-74
Children and Yonng Persons Act 1969

Department of Health and Social Security
Mr. J. W. Stacpoole, Mr. M. G. Russell, C.B.E., Mr. E. C. Morris and

Dr. Pamela Mason
Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed

6th February 1974
LONDON
HER MAJESTY’S STATIONERY OFFICE
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House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE ^^^
EXPENDITURE COMMITEE (EMPLOYMENT AND
SOCIAL SERVICES SUB-COMMITTEE)
WEDNESDAY, 6TH FEBRUARY, 1974.
Members present:
Mrs. Ren^ Short, in the Chair
Mr. Daniel Awdry. Mr. David Reed.

Mr. Robert Boscawen. Mr. Timothy Sainsbury.
Mr. William Hamilton.
Joint Memorandnm by the Department of Health and Social Secnrity and

the Welsh Office
THE CHILDREN AND YOUNG PERSONS ACT 1969
I. INTRODUCTION
1. The Children and Young Persons Act, 1969, is not self-contained. It forms
part of a body of legislation which provides for intervention by the state in the
upbringing of those children in social need whose parents and relatives cannot
provide the care and control that they need. The children concerned may include
physically or mentally handicapped children for whom in particular instancy there
is no other suitable provision available. The other statutes with which the
provisions of Ae Act of 1969 are particularly connected are the Children and Young
Persons Acts 1933 and 1963, and the Children Acts 1948 and 1958.
2. Terms used. For certain purposes, the law distinguishes between a “child”
(a person under 14) and a “young person” (a person who has passed his 14th
but not his 17th birthday). Seventeen is the upper age limit by reference to which
the juvenile court may make an order (other than a variation of an earlier order)
except where a person attains the age of 17 during the course of the proceedings.
Eighteen is the age at which a local authority’s responsibility ceases for the care
of a person they have received into care without a court order. A care order made
by a juvenile court in respect of a child imder 16 may remain in force until the
subject is 18 ; if made in respect of a person already 16 it remains in force until he
is 19; and a care order that would expire when the child reached 18 may be
extended by a court to the nineteenth birthday. A supervision order placing a child
under the supervision of a local authority or of a probation officer may if made in
criminal proceeiiings remain in force for three years or such^ shorter period as the
court may decide (without restriction as to age). If made in care proceedings it
does not extend beyond the eighteenth birthday. In this meniorandum, “ child ” is
used to mean a person under 18, or a person over that age in the care of a local
authority. “The Act” means the Act of 1969 and “Section” means a section
of that Act unless the context otherwise requires.
3. So far as the Acts of 1933, 1948, 1958 and 1969 confer functions on the
Government they confer them on “ The Secretary of State ”,—that is they may be
exercised by any Secretary of State as the Government of the day may decide. Since
1st January, 1971 the Department of Health and Social Security (as respects England)
and the Welsh Office (as respects Wales) have assumed responsibility for certain

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE EXPENDITURE COMMITTEE
6 February, 1974.] [Continued.
matters in this field which were formerly in the province of the Home Office, in
particular the provision of services by local authorities and voluntary organisations.
This memorandum accordingly describes developments under Sections 35-50 of the
Act (community homes), Section 19 (facilities for carrying out supervisors’ directions—
intermediate treatment) and Section 64 (provision of homes by the Secretary of
State). Developments in the field of court proceedings (Part I of the Act) are a
matter for the Home Office. If the Committee wish to investigate the working
of other sections of the Act further information will be supplied.
II. THE COMMUNITY HOME SYSTEM
4. The establishment of the community home system (Sections 35-50) is a

consequence of changes made by the Act in the powers of the courts regarding the
removal of a child from his parents’ care and the placing of restrictions on his
liberty. The courts* former powers to order a child to be sent to an approved
school or to commit him to the care of a local authority as a fit person are
replaced by power to make a care order (Sections 1, 7(5) and 7(7)). The former
power to remand an offender who is not released on bail to a remand home or a
special reception home is replaced by a power to remand to the care of a local
authority (Section 23(1)). These changes give local authorities a wide discretion
in the arrangements-that they may make for children committed to their care and
provide a flexibility that the earlier legislation provisions lacked. A local authority
do not necessarily place a child in their care in a residential establishment (they
may, for example, board him out or allow him to be under the charge and control
of a parent, relative, or friend,—Section 13 of the Children Act 1948 as substituted
by Section 49 of the Act) but to meet the needs of children who do require
residential care (whether they have or have not appeared before a court) provision
is made in the Act for an integrated range of establishments (“ community homes ”)
serving a variety of purposes corresponding to those previously served by several
separate sysems. These were the approved schools (for children under approved
school orders) remand homes (for children awaiting a court appearance or removal
to an approved school) reception centres, children’s homes and hostels and nurseries
(for children received into care without a court order, or committed to the care
of a local authority as a fit person).
5. Local authorities' regional planning. Few local authorities could, or would
need to, maintain a full range of community homes exclusively for children in their
care. The Act, which preceded the re-organisation of local government under the
Local Government Act 1972, accordingly provides for local authorities to act jointly
on a regional basis in planning the community home system (Sections 35-38). The
local authorities in a regional planning area (R.P.A.) specified by the Secretary of
State are required to establish a regional planning committee (R.P.C.) whose duty it
is to prepare and submit to the Secretary of State a plan for the provision and
maintenance of community homes for children in the care of the authorities
constituting the committee.
6. There are three classes of community homes. A community home may be
provided by a local authority or by a voluntary organisation. If the latter, it may
be either a “controlled” home or an “assisted home”. A controlled communiy
home is managed by a local authority through a body of managers on which the
organisation providing the home have minority representation. An assisted home
is managed by the organisation who provide it, through a body of managers on
which a specified local authority have minority representation.
7. A regional plan thus represents a series of agreements negotiated by the local
authorities of an R.P.A. among themselves and with such voluntary organisations
as are prepared to make their premises available wholly or mainly for the
accommodation of children in the care of local authorities and to enter into
partnership with a local authority for the purpose of managing the home.
8. Initial establishment of the community home system. The relevant Sections
of the Act were brought into force on 1st December, 1969. The Secretary of State
then consulted local authorities, as required by the Act, as to the manner in which

(EMPLOYMENT AND SOCIAL SERVICES SUB-COMMITTEE) m
6 February, 1974.] [Continued,
they should be grouped into R.P.A.’s, and on 2nd March, 1970 made an order
establishing eleven R.P.A.’s in England, Wales and Monmouthshire constituting a
twelfth R.P.A. (see Annex). Local authorities then formed their R.P.C.’s and each
R.P.C. set about
(i) estimating ê number of children who would be in the care of local
authorities in the R.P.A. (the “ relevant authorities ”) when they became
responsible for children hitherto committed to an approved school or a
remand home in addition to those who came into care with or without
a court order.
(ii) estimating the number of children in care who would need accommodation
of various kinds in a community home system or in other provision (e.g.
special schools, in-patient psychiatric units or the private sector).
(iii) agreeing upon the future use of establishments already in the possession
of the relevant authorities, namely children’s homes, reception centres and
nurseries provided under Section 15 of the Children Act, 1948, remand
homes provided under Section 79 of the Children and Young Persons Act,
1933, and some few of the approved schools (most of which, however, were
provided by voluntary organisations).
(iv) negotiating with voluntary organisations for the acquisition of voluntary
approved schools and voluntary children’s homes, or for their use as
controlled or assisted community homes.
(v) making plans to fill the gaps by the extension and adaptation of existing
establishments and the acquisition or construction of new premises.
9. Completion of regional plans. R.P.C.’s were required by Secretary of State
under Section 36 to submit plans for their areas. These plans were discussed in
detail with R.P.C.’s and finally—it being desirable that the community home system
should come into existence on the same date in all R.P.A.’s—approval was given
specifying 1st April, 1973 as the date for the plans to come into operation. On that
dale some 2,236 establishments previously administered as approved schools, remand
homes, reception centres, children’s homes and hostels and nurseries became
community homes. Others have been added since as Instruments of Management in
respect of “ assisted ” and “ controlled ” homes have been prepared and as varia-
tions to the original regional plans (described in section 37(4) as “ further regional
plans”) have been made and the latest position is that there are in England and
Wales 2,377 community homes as follows:
England Wales Total
Former local authority’s children’s homes 1,925 122 2,047
Former voluntary children’s homes 156 4 160
Former remand homes 57 4 61
Former local authority approved schools 30 3 33
Former voluntary approved schools ... 74 2 76
Of the total of 93,000 children in the care of local authorities on 31st March, 1973
it is estimated that 33,500 were accommodated in the above establishments. No
precise figure is available as local authorities’ annual returns relate to 31st March
and that for 1973 precedes the introduction of the community home system.
10. Forms of residential care. It should be noted that in the community home
system it is not the practice, nor was it in the former systems of residential care,
to set aside certain establishments for children who have been found guilty of an
offence, and others for those who have not. It is true that before the 1969 Act
was brought into force approved schools were set aside for, and remand homes
mainly occupied by, children subject to court orders; but such an order was
not, and committal to the care of a local authority under the 1933 Act was not and
under the 1969 Act is not, necessarily based on a finding of guilt; the former style
of court order could be, and the present style can be, equally applied to children
brought before the court as being in need of care or control. The distinction
396192 A2

4 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE EXPENDITURE COMMITTEE
6 February, 1974.] {Continued,
between various kinds of community home is a distinction between the forms of care
they provide, and a community home providing a certain form of care is available
to children who are considered, by the local authority in whose care they are, to need
that form of care, without distinction between those committed to care under a court
order and those received into care without a court order, or between those who have
been committed to care as offenders and those committed to care as being in need of
care or control.
11. Children in the care of a local authority may be accommodated in a private
household, that is to say they may be boarded out with foster-parents (as were
29,803 of 31st March, 1973) or allowed to be under the charge and control of a
parent, guardian, relative or friend (as were 16,055 on 31st March, 1973). Children
for whom these forms of care are no;t considered suitable, or for whom suitable
foster-parents are not available, are in most cases placed in community homes.
Most children of school age or over who are accommodated in community homes,
can, and should, be allowed much the same degree of freedom as children brought
up in a well regulated private household,—going out daily to school or to further
education, or to work, and spending a proportion of their leisure or holiday time
outside the home. Most community homes, accordingly, are geared to that pattern
of care; but a minority of children in care have needs for care and control, or for
observation and assessment, which cannot be met in that way, and for them the
community home system includes a number of establishments whose purpose may be
described as “ full residential care ”, and in which most of the children remain on
the premises for most of the twenty-four hours on most days of the year. Com-
munity homes at present in operation may therefore be classified as follows: —
Number of
Number of children
homes England
England Wales and Wales
Full residential care
(1) Observation and assessment centres ... 189 9 4,500
(2) Longer stay homes 104 5 6,400
(3) Residential nurseries* 112 7 2,300
Homes and hostels from which children go out
to school or to work 1,837 114 20,300
12. Full residential care. The number of children of or above school age
who require full residential care is relatively few; establishments providing such
care tend to be relatively large, in order to sustain, for example, a sufficiently
varied education programme; and they tend to specialise in the under-thirteens,
the thirteen-to-fifteens, or the over fifteens. If such an establMiment is to be
viable, its use must be shared by a number of authorities,—ûsually at least all
those in a R.P.A. Such homes fall into two distinct groups according to the
purpose they serve. The purpose of observation and assessment centres corresponds
broadly to that of the former remand homes and of those particular former
children’s homes which functioned as reception homes,—namely the temporary
safety-keeping and the assessment of children about whose future some new
decision has to be made by a court, or by a local authority. They include those
who have been made the subject of an interim care order or remanded to
care (Sections 22 and 23), those for whom, after a care order has been made, the
local authority require a full assessment of needs and placement possibilities, and
those who have been in care for some time and who appear to the local authority
to require re-assessment. The purpose of the longer-stay homes proviffing full
residential care corresponds to that of the former approved schools,—^namely the
care, education, and control of children whose ne^ in those respects could
not be met in a home from which they went out daily to school or to work. It is
the children who would formerly have been the subject of approved school orders
and the establishments which formerly were (and in a few cases still are) approved
♦ Any children of school age attend local schools.

(EMPLOYMENT AND SOCIAL SERVICES SUB-COMMITTEE) 5
schools that have been particularly affected by the changes which the 1969 Act has
brought abou^ and the arrangements which have been made for approved schools
are now described in more detail.
13. The integration of the approved schools into the community home system.
There were in England and Wales 120 approved schools,—86 for boys and 34 for
girls. Thirty-seven of the 120 were managed by local authorities, 83 by voluntary
organisations. Of the latter, only the minority were provided and managed by
organisations of a national character (Dr. Bamardo’s, the National Children’s
Home, and denominational bodies); the majority were provided and managed by
voluntary local bodies constituted for the purpose of administering particular schools.
R.P.C.’s decided early on that they would attempt to obtain the use of all the
schools, with one or two exceptions, as community homes. The schools were
unevenly distributed throughout the country in relation to the population, so
R.P.C.’s had to negotiate among themselves for schools in one Region to be
managed, as community homes, by local authorities in another, and for schools
which would be include in the Regional Plan for a particular R.P.A. to be used,
not only by all authorities in that area but by those in other areas. Securing the
use of a volrmtary approved school as a community home has involved, in some
cases protracted negotiations between the voluntary organisation and the local
authority concerned, on the questions whether the school ôuld become a com-
munity home at all and if so whether it should be a local authority home, a
controlled home, or an assisted home, and on financial matters in cases where a
transfer of the ownership of property has been involved. However, local authorities
and voluntary organisations have responded well to the challenge to “think
regionally ” and at the date of this memorandum agreement had been reached in all
but 11 cases on the many questions of principle and detail involved in the making
of an order under Section 46, discontinuing the establishment as an approved school,
and instruments of management for its future as a controlled or assisted community
home (Sections 39 and 40).
14. The use of approved schools in the “ interim period ” Schedule 3, paragraph 3,
of the Act provides that during the “ interim period ’’ between the date on which
the courts’ power to make an approved school order came to an end and that on
which an approved school ceases to be administered as such, it may be used to
accommodate children in the care of local authorities. The first of these dates was
1st January, 1971, on which the courts’ power to make a care order replaced the
former approved school order. The second, for most schools, was 1st April,
1973, on which 71 of them became community homes. A further 38 have since
become community homes, but (as stated in paragraph 13 above) 11 continue at
present to be administered as approved schools, and for them the “ interim period ’*
is likely to continue till 1st April, 1974, though a few may continue for' a short
time after that date.
15. During the interim period the admission of a child in the care of a
local authority to an approved school has been a matter for agreement between
the loc»l authority and the managers of the school. In general, however, authorities
and school managers have continued, by agreement, to employ the “classifying
centres ’’ where, in the days of the approved school order, children subject to an
approved school order were received, assessed, and allocated to a school. Five
approved schools and one remand home acted as “ classifying centres “ for boys, and
seven remand homes as classifying centres for girls. After 1st January, 1971 the
centres’ function was necessarily broader than before, when it was one of deter-
mining,' on behalf of the Secretary of State, to which particular school to allocate
a boy or girl ordered by the court to be sent to an approved school. The new
function became one of receiving a child who appeared, prima facie, to the
local authority in whose care he was, to ne^ full residential care, to
carry out a full assessment to confirm that view or otherwise, and if the view were
confirmed, to recommend a school. Such recommendations were accepted in most
cases by the authority and the school concerned, but both remained free to reject
396192 A3

such a recommendation, and sometimes one or other did so. For the first twelve
months after 1st January, 1971, the numbers of boys and girls in approved schools
fell, but then rose again, as follows:
Numbers of boys and girls in approved schools
{excluding “ classifying centres ”—see above)
Boys Girls
31st December, 1970(A) 5.900 960
30th June, 1971 5,580 880
31st December, 1971 4,880 850
30th June, 1972 4,960 910
31st December, 1972 4.900 880
31st March, 1973(6) 5,280 920
30th June, 1973(c) ... 5,450 860
(а) Last day of the “ approved school order ”.
(б) Last return before the inception of the community home system.
(c) Taking together the community homes which were formerly approved schools,
and the schools still administered as such.
16. Use of remand homes in the "interim period'’. A similar “interim period”
applied to remand homes, but in this case the period was the same for all, namely
from 1st January, 1971 (when the court’s power to commit to a remand home was
replaced by remand to the care of the local authority) to 1st April, 1973, when all
61 remand homes in England and Wales became community homes. Remand homes
continued to be used mainly for children remanded by the courts and for those
awaiting transfer to an approved school, but the effect of the statutory changes was
to introduce some flexibility both in the placing of children on remand (who, being
in care, could be placed in any manner the local authority considered fit) and in
the use of remand homes which ceased to be limited by law to the accommodation
of precise categories of children. The demand for remand home facilities increased
after 1st January, 1971. Statistics are kept in terms of quarterly averages.
Occupation of remand homes {England and Wales)
Number of Average
places occupation
Quarter ending—
31st December, 1970 1,650 1,287
31st December, 1971 1,667 1,275
31st December, 1972 1,697 1,287
31st March, 1973(A) 1,688 1,384
(A) Last quarter during which remand homes were administered as such.
17. Children's homes and hostels in the period Is/ January, \91\~\st April, 1973.
No statutory “ interim period ” applied to children’s homes and hostels (provided
respectively under Sections 15 and 19 of the Children Act 1948) whose purpose
remained after 1st January, 1971, as it was before, the accommodation of children
in the care of local authorities or (in the case of hostels) persons up to the age of 21
who had formerly been in care. But from 1st January, 1971, the expression “ children
in care ” took on a wider meaning, that is it included children who would formerly
have been expressly committed to a remand home or approved school; and the
range of establishments available for children in care was enlarged by the inclusion
of approved schools and remand homes. This greater flexibility in the use of
establishments affected children’s homes and hostels in that they received some
children who might formerly have been placed in a remand home or an approved
school, and these establishments received some children who might formerly have
been accommodated in a children’s home or hostel. Children’s homes appear to
have been affected more in the first way than the second, since there are a great
many of them and every local authority has some, so that if a local authority give
more emphasis on accommodating a child as near his family as possible rather than
on sending him to an establishment with facilities for his special needs, a children’s
home is likely to be selected.

885
18. The use of community homes since 1st April, 1973. Since 1st April, 1973, the
Social Service Departments of local authorities have been engaged in the imple-
mentation of regional plans, and the assumption of full or partial responsibility for
the majority of approved schools as they became community homes. They have
therefore been under considerable pressure and the community homes system cannot
yet be said to be running smoothly. There are signs that some at least of the initial
difficulties are gradually being overcome. However the placement of children in
approved schools was formerly organised on a national basis, while the placement
of a child in care is now the responsibility of local authorities some of whom have
experienced considerable difficulty in arranging for the admission of a child in their
care to an observation and assessment centre or to a community home with
education on the premises. In some regional planning areas the local authorities are
making progress in the development of effective placement machinery ; and when
the regional planning areas have been reconstituted on 1st April, 1974, as a con-
sequence of the Local Government Act 1972, and the new regional planning
committees have been appointed, the Department propose to arrange a meeting with
R.P.C.’s to discuss the operation and further development of the community home
system.
19. Development of the community home system. The development of the system
is planned by the eleven R.P.C.’s for England and the R.P.C. for Wales. The present
plans, which were prepared by the R.P.C.’s in 1971-72 were based on estimates of
need up to 1975. They estimated that the number of children in care on 31st March,
1975, will be 96,500 of whom 48 per cent, would need to be accommodated in
community homes. This represents an increase of 5,700 or 6*3 per cent, on the
figures for 31st March, 1972. (The estimated number of children in care in Wales
on 31st March, 1975, will be 3,900, a decrease of 200 or 4*99 per cent, on the figure
for 31st March, 1972.) To meet this demand regional plans envisage the construc-
tion of 448 homes providing 7,666 places at an estimated cost of £29-5 million at
1972 prices. The new provision proposed will replace some out of date homes,
will improve existing observation and assessment centres and provide new ones, and
will provide additional secure provision.
20. The number of secure places currently available within the system is about
200 and there is an estimated need for about another 400 places. Secure accom-
modation may be grouped into three main types, (i) separation rooms—for temporary
use for children within the home, (ii) holding places for children whose cases are
pending before a court or who are awaiting a treatment placement, and (iii) treatment
units for short-term or relatively long-term treatment. Nearly all existing accom-
modation is usable only by boys or only by girls. Additional secure holding
accommodation ((ii) above) should lead to fewer children being remanded to prison.
Priority is being given to proposals for providing additional secure accommodation
in any plans for capital expenditure or community homes in 1974-75. Acceptance
that secure accommodation is necessary for some children is a relatively recent
development and the first secure unit for boys became available only in 1964.
Security is not seen as punitive but as meeting the needs of a minority of children
who require treatment in security.
21. Finance. Under Sections 38 and 41 of the Act it is the responsibility of the
local authority providing a local authority community home, or designated as the
responsible authority for a controlled home to manage, equip and maintain the
home. Under Section 42 the management, equipment and maintenance of an
assisted community home is the responsibility of the voluntary organisation by which
the home is provided. The voluntary organisation recoups its expenditure under
these headings from the fees it charges local authorities who place children in the
home. Local authority expenditure on the equipment and maintenance of com-
munity homes together with that incurred by them on the maintenance of a child
in their care placed in a home provided by another local authority or in an assisted
home is taken into account for the purposes of determining relevant expenditure for
the calculation of Rate Support Grant.
396192 A4

S MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE EXPENDITURE COMMITTEE
22. It is estimated that in 1973-74 local authority revenue exp

loan charges) in respect of community homes in England and Wales, bas^ on the
forecast made for Rate Support Grant in 1972, amended to allow for pay and price
increases up to November, 1973, will amount to about £57 million. Local authorities
also incur expenditure of about £7 million on children boarded out in foster homes,
and about £8 million on payment for children in voluntary homes or voluntary
approved schools. Further expenditure on administration and field work by social
workers cannot be identified from local authorities accounts. Capital expenditure
in 1973-74 is estimated at £7*1 million comprising: —
£m.
Local authority borrowing for capital expenditure on
community homes ... 6*9
Government grants to voluntary organisations for capital
expenditure on assisted community homes 0*2
7-lm
Hi INTERMEDIATE TREATMENT
23. Intermediate treatment is not a term used in the Act but has been adopted to
describe new forms of treatment to be developed under Part I of the Act (sections
12, 18 and 19). The principle upon which 'these provisions are based is that many
children foimd to be in need of care or control do not require removal from home
(except perhaps briefly and for a specific purpose) or formally to be placed in the
care of the local authorities but would benefit from being required to engage in
activities which are mainly of kinds to which other children come voluntarily e.g.
youth clubs and boy scouts. Accordingly, where a court makes a supervision
order whether in care proceedings, criminal proceedings or on the discharge of a
care order, it may (if an intermediate treatment scheme—see paragraph 24 below—
has been approved for the planning area concerned) attach to the supervision order
a requirement that the child shall comply with such directions as may be given
to him by the person appointed to supervise him (who may be a locd authority
officer or a probation officer). The supervisor has a wide discretion, within the
limits set by section 12, in the requirements that he may impose upon a particular
child but he may not give the child directions involving the use of facilities that are
not specified in an intermediate treatment scheme (see paragraph 24 below) for the
planning area concerned. As a form of treatment it is intended to enable a child
to develop new and beneficial attitudes and activities which may be continued
after his supervision order has ended and so doing help him to develop generally
and to avoid further trouble. It also offers him an opportunity to meet on even
terms other children who have not come before the courts. The facilities for inter-
mediate treatment are essentially positive activities most of which are already being,
or may be, used by other children who are not subject to supervision orders.
24. Intermediate treatment schemes Under section 19 of the Act it is the duty of
the RPC for each planning area to make arrangements with such persons as the
Committee ffiinks fit for the provision of intermediate treatment facilities. Accord-
ingly in January 1972 l^C’s were asked to prepare initial schemes of inteimediate
treatment and to submit them within the year. Such schemes list the
organisations in a planning area which have agreed to admit children subject
to supervision orders to the activities they organise, the nature of the activity, where
it is provided, for whom it is intended, and the charge. The first intermediate
treatment scheme only came into operation on 2nd July, 1973 and schema are so far
operating in only 9 out of 11 planning regions in England. The intermediate
scheme for Wales came into operation on 30th January, 1974. The schemes currently
in operation in England and Wales include 5,901 facilities of which 253 are
residential and 5,648 are day or evening facilities. 1,556 of the facilities are provided
by local authorities and 4,345 by voluntary organisations.

(EMPLOYMENT AND SOCIAL SERVICES SUB-COMMITTEE)
25. Finance Local authorities are responsible for expenditure on

treatment. It is incurred generally on administration, including the cost of local
authority social workers and probation officers who act as supervisors, and particu-
larly in relation to the provision of facilities including the costs of attendance at
facilities. It is not possible with the information available to distinguish that part
of local authorty expenditure which represents the cost of the administration of
intermediate treatment schemes but for the purposes of Rate Support Grant for
1974-75 it was estimated that expenditure on “ facilities ” would amount to £0*25
million at November, 1973 pay and price levels.
IV YOUTH TREATMENT CENTRES
26. Youth treatment centres are being provided under section 64 of the Act which
affords the Secretary of State power to provide, equip and maintain homes for
the accommodation of children in the care of local authorities who are in need of
specialised facilities unlikely to be available in community homes. The particular
need which youth treatment centres are intended to meet is the care, control and
long-term treatment of children between the ages of 12 and 19 who are so severely
disturbed and disruptive that none of the established forms of child care residential
provision can furnish the total facilities, including security, which their condition
requires but who do not need in-patient treatment in hospital. A small number of
children and adolescents who are in care and who are mentally ill or seriously
disturbed need in-patient psychiatric treatment in hospital. Responsibility for
providing such services rests with the health authorities under the National Health
Services Acts and does not derive from the Children and Young Persons Act. A
considerable expansion of existing facilities is envisaged for the future. The very
small number of children and adolescents who need secure psychiatric facilities
present a special problem, to which no satisfactory answer has yet been found.
27. The first centre (St. Charles), which opened in July, 1971 at Brentwood, Essex
in adapted approved school premises currently provides places for 38 children but
will be extended to provide an additional 20-25 places; two further purpose-built
centres each to accommodate 70 children, have been planned. The treatment of the
children is in the hands of multi-disciplinary teams of teachers, nurses, residential
child care officers and occupational therapists supported by one psychologist and
visiting consultant psychiatrists. The staff work on a shift basis covering the whole
working day of the children and without particular regard to the normal boundaries
of their profession. Professional care staff are on duty at night. Because of the
aggressive and often violent nature of the children, a high staff/child ratio is
necessary.
28. The St. Charles centre was provided at an initial capital cost of £600,000.
The annual running cost of the centre is of the order of £150,000. Local authorities
placing children at the centre currently contribute £47 per week towards the cost
of each child’s maintenance.
29. The building of the two new centres at Birmingham and Wakefield is planned
to start in 1974 and to be completed by about the end of the 1975-76
financial year. The capital costs of the new centres are currently estimated at
£3,150,000 including the cost of housing for staff.
30. When the building work is completed, youth treatment centres will provide
some 200 places for children which, so far as can be foreseen, will be sufficient to
meet the potential demand from local authorities for long-term treatment facilities
for highly disturbed and anti-social children—within the category described in
paragraph 26 above—for whom the community home system, even when more fully
developed, is unlikely to be able to provide.
396192 A5

H) ■ V MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE EXPENDITURE COMMITTEE
ANNEX A
Number of
homes
comprised in
Planning planning Number of
Area Areas comprised in planning area areas places
Area No. 1 The counties of Cumberland, Durham,
Northumberland and Westmorland and the
county boroughs of Carlisle, Darlington,
Gateshead, Hartlepool, Newcastle upon
Tyne, South Shields, Sunderland, Teesside
and Tynemouth 177 2,500
Area No. 2 The counties of the East Riding, the North
Riding and the West Riding of Yorkshire
and the county boroughs of Barnsley,
Bradford, Dewsbury, Doncaster, Halifax,
Huddersfield, Kingston upon Hull, Leeds,
Rotherham, Sheffield, Wakefield and York 237 3,800
Area No. 3 The counties of Chester and Lancaster and
the county boroughs of Barrow-in-Furness,
Birkenhead, Blackburn, Blackpool, Bolton,
Bootle, Burnley, Bury, Chester, Liverpool,
Manchester, Oldham, Preston, Rochdale,
St. Helens, Salford, Southport, Stockport,
Wallasey, Warrington md Wigan 385 5,200
Area No. 4 The counties of Herefordshire, Salop,
Staffordshire, Warwickshire and Worcester-
shire and the county boroughs of
Birmingham, Burton upon Trent, Coventry,
Dudley, Solihull, Stoke-on-Trent, Walsall,
Warley, West Bromwich, Wolverhampton
and Worcester 214 4,200
Area No. 5 The counties of Derbyshire, Leicester, Lincoln
—Parts of Holland, Lincoln—Parts of
Kesteven, Lincoln—Parts of Lindsey,
Northamptonshire, Nottinghamshire and
Rutland and the county boroughs of Derby,
Grimsby, Leicester, Lincoln, Northampton
and Nottingham 170 2.300
Area No. 6 The counties of Cambridgeshire and Isle of
Ely, Essex, Huntingdon and Peterborough,
Norfolk, East Suffolk and West Suffolk and
the county boroughs of Great Yarmouth,
Ipswich, Norwich and Southend-on-Sea ... 88 1.300
Area No. 7 The counties of Bedford, Berkshire, Bucking-
ham, Hertfordshire and Oxford and the
county boroughs of Luton, Oxford and
Reading 111 1,800
Area No. 8 The City of London and all the London
boroughs 495 8,500
Area o. 9 The counties of Kent, Surrey, East Sussex
and West Sussex and the county boroughs
of Brighton, Canterbury, Eastbourne and
Hastings 154 2,000

Copyright (c) 2006 ProQuest Information and Learning Company. All rights reserved,
(EMPLOYMENT AND SOCIAL SERVICES SUB-COMMITTEE) m
Number of
homes
comprised in
Planning planning Number of
Area Areas comprised in planning area areas places
Area No. 10 The counties of Dorset, Hampshire, Isle of
Wight and Wiltshire and the county
boroughs of Bournemouth, Portsmouth
and Southampton 113 1,600
Area No, 11 The counties of Cornwall, Devon, Gloucester-
shire and Somerset and the county boroughs
of Bath, Bristol, Exeter, Gloucester,
Plymouth and Torbay 98 2,000
Area No. 12 All the counties and county boroughs in
Wales, the county of Monmouthshire and
the county borough of Newport 135 1,700
England 2,242 35,200
Wnlpc
T T €4lwO ••• ••• 1
Jl w*/ 1,700
TOTAL 2,377 36,900
ANNEX B.
Letter to the Employment and Social Services Sub-Committee
In your letter of 18th January you asked to be supplied with a list of local
authorities which have set up homes as required under the Children and Young
Persons Act 1969: and a list of homes run by voluntary organisations.
As regards your request for a list of local authorities which have set up homes
under the Act I think I should explain that for the purposes of the Act local
authority means the council of a county, county borough or London borough or
the Common Council of the City of London. All these authorities are social service
authorities and as such all except the County of Radnor and the City of London
provided residential accommodation of one kind or another (e.g. children’s homes
under section 13 of the Children Act 1948, remand homes or approved schools
under sections 77 and 80 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933) before the
introduction of the community home system under the Act of 1969. All children’s
homes provided by local authorities automatically became community homes on
1st April, 1973 by virtue of their inclusion in a regional plan approved by the S. of
S. to operate from that date. All remand homes and all except one of the approved
schools provid^ by local authorities also became community homes on 1st April,
1973 by reason of their inclusion in a regional plan and the coming into force of
an order under section 46 of the Act. The list requested would therefore include
all county councils except the Radnor County Council, all county boroughs, and
all London boroughs.
I enclose lists of assisted and controlled community homes which are provided
by voluntary organisations and run by them in association with a local authority.
The lists show, in addition to the name of the home, its location and the name
of the voluntary organisation by whom it is provided. The abbreviations C.E.C.S.
and N.C.H. refer to the Church of England Children’s Society and National Child-
ren’s Home respectively. The lists also include similar information about establish-
ments which are still administered as approved schools by voluntary organisations
but which are expected to become community homes: and voluntary childrens
homes registered under section 29 of the Children Act 1948 which, alôugh not
part of the community home system, are used by some local authorities for the
accommodation of children in care.

AREA 1
FORMER REGISTERED VOLUNTARY HOMES
Name of Home Location Voluntary Organisation

Assisted Community Homes
St. Joseph’s Darlington... Hexham and Newcastle Diocesan
and Rescue Society
19 Akenside Terrace... Newcastle upon Tyne Hexham and Newcastle Diocesan
and Rescue Society
Roycroft Newcastle upon Tyne Hexham and Newcastle Diocesan
and Rescue Society
Jesmoimt Newcastle upon Tyne Hexham and Newcastle Diocesan
and Rescue Society
St. Marys Newcastle upon Tyne Hexham and Newcastle Diocesan
and Rescue Society
Nazareth House Newcastle upon Tyne Poor Sisters of Nazareth
St. Marys Newcastle upon Tyne Hexham and Newcastle Diocesan
and Rescue Society
St. PhiUips Hostel ... Newcastle upon Tyne Hexham and Newcastle Diocesan
Rescue Society
St. Vincent’s Home ... Newcastle upon Tyne Hexham and Newcastle Diocesan
Rescue Society
173 West Avenue Newcastle upon Tyne North East Chiidren’s Society
Edward Brough House South Shields North East Chiidren’s Society
25 Thornhill Park ... Sunderland Hexham and Newcastle Diocesan
Rescue Society
St. Aidans Tjmemouth CECS
Nazareth House Middlesbrough Poor Sisters of Nazareth
Newhaven Middlesbrough, Teesside... Salvation Army Women’s Social
Service
St. Teresa’s Middlesbrough Middlesbrough Diocesan Rescue
Society
Edith Brough House Newcastle upon Tyne North ^t Children’s Society
Loreto House Sunderland ... .... Hexham and Newcastle Diocesan
Rescue Society
Eustace Percy House... Cullercoats North East Children’s Society
StellingHall Stocksfield NCH
FORMER APPROVED SCHOOLS
Controlled Community Homes
Axwell Park Blaydon-on-Tyne ... ... Local Committee
Aycliffe Nr. Darlington ... ... Local Committee
The Castle Stanhope ... Local Committee
Edmond Cistle Wetheral, Carlisle ... Local Conunittee
Longhirst Hall Morpeth ... Local Committee
Pelham House Calderbridge ... Local Committee
St. Hilda’s Gosforth ... Local Committee
Wellesley Nautical Blythe ... Local Committee
Netherton Morpteh ... Local Committee
Northumberland Village Whitley Bay ... Local Committee
Homes
Benton Grange Newcastle upon Tyne ... Local Committee
St. Peters Gainford ... Hexham and Newcastle Diocesan
Rescue Society
REGISTERED VOLUNTARY HOMES WHICH HAVE NOT BECOME COMMUNITY HOMES
St. Cuthberts Darlington... CECS
Sailor’s Children’s Society ... Sunderland The Sailor’s Children’s Society
ShotleyPark Consett Dr. Bamardo’s
Mount Royal Hexham ... Dr. Bamardo’s
18 Roxburgh Terrace Whitley Bay The Sailor’s Children’s Society
148 Thomtree Drive Whitley Bay Dr. Bamardo’s
26/28 South Parade Whitley Bay Dr. Bamardo’s
Barrows Green House Kendal Dr. Bamardo’s
St. Marks Kendal CECS
Windlehursi: Ambleside ... Ockendon Venture

6 February, 1974.] {Continued.
AREA 2

Osborn House Hostel Local Committee
West Haven ... Dewsbury Leeds Diocesan Rescue Society
69 Park Avenue ... Hull Middlesbrough Diocesan Rescue
Society
Pickering Garth ... Hull CECS
112 Westboume Avenue ... Hull Middlesbrough Diocesan Rescue
Society
Bosco House ... Leeds ... ... Leeds Diocesan Rescue Society
Cowgili House ... LiCcds ... ... Leeds Diocesan Rescue Society
5 Harrison Crescent ... ... Leeds Leeds Diocesan Rescue Society
St. Mary’s ... Leeds Leeds Diocesan Rescue Society
42/44 Dykes Hall Road ... Sheffield Leeds Diocesan Rescue Society
SMintoRoad ... Sheffield Leeds Diocesan Rescue Society
May Lodge ... Scarborough NCH
Fairfield ... Harrogate NCH
St. Mary’s Boys’ Home ... Boston Spa Leeds Diocesan Rescue Society
St. Theresa’s ... Knaresborough ... Leeds Diocesan Rescue Society
Longden House ... Sheffield Local Committee
29 Moor Road ... Leeds ... ... Leeds Diocesan Rescue Society

Controlled Community Home
St. John’s Wakefield Local Committee
Hy^stlands Batley ... Salvation Army
St. Camillus Tadcaster ... Local Committee
St. Williams Market Weighton... ... Local Committee
Springhead Park Rothwell ... National Association For Mental
Health (Inc.)

Woodleigh Dewsbury ... Ockenden Venture
Axholme House Doncaster ... Dr. Barnardo’s
All Saints Huddersfield CECS
Hull Seaman’s and General Hessle Committee of Management
Orphanage
The Sailor’s Children’s Society Hull The Sailor’s Children’s Society
3 Wellesley Avenue Hull The Sailor’s Children’s Society
90 Shepherds Lane Leeds Project Spark
Spring House Home For Leeds Spring House Home Committee
Children
The Cherry tree Orphanage ... Sheffield Trustees of the Cherrytree
Orphanage
Flynn House Wakefield ... CECS
West Garth (Godfrey Walker York CECS
Nurseries)
York Blue Coat Boys and York York Blue Coat and Grey Coat
Grey Coat Girls School School
The Sailor’s Children’s Society Hornsea ... The Sailor’s Children’s Society
Hollins Ian Tetley Memorial Harrogate ... Dr. Barnardo’s
Home
21 Owlett Road Shipley Dr. Barnardo’s
The Red House Ripon «»• ••• Dr. Barnardo’s
1/2 Riverhill Cottages Tadcaster ... Dr. Barnardo’s
Roberts House Harrogate ... Dr. Barnardo’s
Spring Hill School Ripon ••• »• • Dr. Barnardo’s
West Mount Ripon ••* ••• Dr. Barnardo’s
Wood Nook Horsforth, Leeds ... Dr. Barnardo’s

6 February» 1974.] [Continued.
AREA 3

Mornington House Liverpool ... Local Committee

Elmswood Liverpool ... ... Salvation Army
Eton Lodge Training Home Liverpool ... ... Order of Good Shepherd
25 Fairfield Crescent ... Liverpool ... ... Liverpool Catholic Children's
Society
Newstead Liverpool ... ... Liverpool Catholic Children’s
Society
St. Gabriels Convent Liverpool ... Poor Servants of Mother of God
Strawberry Field Liverpool ... Salvation Army
25/27 Ruabon Road Manchester ... Catholic Childrens Rescue Society
Ogilvie House Manchester ... NCH
Darley House Manchester ... Catholic Childrens Rescue Society
Franciscourt Chorlton cum Hardy ... Salford Childrens Rescue Society
Highlea Manchester ... Boys and Girls Welfare Society
Lockhart House Manchester ... Boys and Girls Welfare Society
The Litchford Hall Training Manchester ... Congregation Sisters Good
School Shepherd
Marylea Manchester ... Catholic Childrens Rescue Society
Marymount Manchester ... Catholic Childrens Rescue Society
Alvema Manchester ... Catholic Childrens Rescue Society
Dacre House Birkenhead ... CECS
Morville House Chorlton cum Hardy ... NCH
Wingate Manchester ... Catholic Childrens Rescue Society
Cambridge House Hostel ... Rochdale ... Boys and Girls Welfare Society
Frances Pochin House Southport ... CECS
Marshfield Southport ... Salvation Army
Harewood Southport ... NCH
Westdene Southport ... NCH
Mount Carmel Home, Stockport ... Catholic Childrens Rescue Society
Lynwood
Lerryn Stockport ... Boys and Girls Welfare Society
Taxal Edge Home Whaley Bridge ... Invalid Childrens Aid Society
Belmont House Cheadle ... Boys and Girls Welfare Society
Linden CheadleHume ... Boys and Girls Welfare Society
Springside Frodsham ... NCH
The Homestead Blackburn ... Blackburn Orphanage Manage-
ment Committee
Clumber Lodge Babies Home Freshfield, Lancashire ... Liverpool Catholic Childrens
Society
Cortina ... Blackburn ... ... Blackburn Orphanage
Dixon House ... ... Blackburn ... ... Blackburn Orphanage
Henley House ... Accrington ... Blackburn Orphanage
Nazareth House ... Liverpool ... ... Congregation Poor Sisters of
Nazareth
Nazareth House ... Prestwich ... ... Congregation Poor Sisters of
Nazareth
Nazareth House ... Lancaster ... ... Congregation Poor Sisters of
Nazareth
Ryecroft ... Worsley ... CECS
St. Annes Home ... Ormskirk ... ... CECS
St. Denys ... Clitheroe ... ... CECS
Victoria House ... Formby ... CECS
Newton Hall ... ... Frodsham ... ... NCH
Quarry Mount ... Ormskirk ... ... CECS
Maryhill ... Burnley ... Catholic Children’s Rescue Society
(Salford)
The Beeches ... ... Manchester ... Catholic Children’s Rescue Society
(Salford)


The Fylde Poulton-le-Fylde . Local Comnrjttee
Northenden Road Sale Local Committee
Poplar Bank House Huy ton Local Committee
Red Bank Newton-le-Wi.llows Red Bank Schools Ltd.
St. Christophers Great Crosby Local Committee Affiliated to
Liverpool Diocesan Board of
Moral Welfare
Blackbrook House ... Blackburn ... Liverpool Catholic Children’s
Protection Society
Danesford Congleton ... National Children’s Homes
Farnworth St. Aidans Widnes ... Liverpool Catholic Children’s
Protection Society
Greenfield House St. Helens ... Liverpool Catholic Children’s
Social Services
St. Georges Freshfield ... Liverpool Catholic Children’s
Protection Society
St. Thomas More Birkdale ... Liverpool Catholic Children’s
Protection Society
St. Vincents Formby ... Liverpool Catholic Children’s
Protection Society
West Bank Stockport ... Salford Catholic Protection and
Rescue Society
Nazareth House Birkenhead Congregation Poor Sisters of
Nazareth
Swallowdale Blackpool Blackpool Orphanage
Boughton Hall Chester Dr. Barnardo’s
South Moss House Formby South Moss Trust
521 Aigburth Road Liverpool Dr. Barnardo’s
St. Agnes House Manchester Diocesan of Manchester
Sara Laski Children’s Home Manchester Manchester Jewish
Shepherd Street Mission Preston Local Committee
Children’s Home
St. Georges Manchester CECS
Bradstock Lockett Nursery... Southport CECS
Tudor Bank Birkdale Dr. Barnardo’s
Pallotti Hall Residential Macclesfield Pallettine Missionary Sisters
St. Christophers Altrincham, Cheshire CECS
Nursery
St. Edmunds Bebington, Cheshire Sisters of Charity St. Vincent de
Paul
604 Clifton Drive North St. Annes-on-Sea, Lancs.... Thursby Convalescent Inc.
Harris Children’s Home Preston Local Committee
Elsmere St. Annes-on-Sea, Lancs.... NCH
273 Preston New Road Blackburn Blackburn Orphanage
74 Wellington Road Preston
9 Links Gate Lytham St. Annes Dr. Barnardo’s
APPROVED SCHOOLS WHICH HAVE NOT BECOME COMMUNITY HOMES
St. Josephs Nantwith Brothers of the Christian Schools
AREA 4

Manresa Birmingham ... Father Hudson’s Homes
Maria Training Home Birmingham ... Order of Our Lady of Charity
Maryvale Nursery ... Birmingham ... Father Hudson’s Homes


Nazareth House Birmingham ... Poor Sisters of Nazareth
St. Vincent’s Working Boys Birmingham ... Father Hudson’s Homes
Home
St. Anthony’s Hostel Birmingham ... Father Hudson’s Homes
St. Bernadette’s Training Hereford ... Order of Our Lady of Charity
School
Our Lady’s Convent Leamington Spa ... ... Order of Poor Child Jesus
Priory Farm Studley, Warwicks. ... Father Hudson’s Homes
St. Andrews Birmingham ... Father Hudson’s Homes
St. Edwards Birmingham ... Father Hudson’s Homes
St. Joans Home and Nursery Birmingham ... Father Hudson’s Homes
for Girls
St. Paul’s Home Birmingham ... Father Hudson’s Homes

Knowle Hill Kenilworth ... Local Committee
IN'orton ... ... ••• Kinston ... Local Committee
Rowley Hall Stafford ... Local Committee
Assisted Homes
Quinta Weston Rhyn Dr. Barnardo’s
Druids Heath Walsall Dr. Barnardo’s
Osmono House ... Birmingham ... Dr. Bamardo’s

Bridgehead House ... ... Birmingham ... The Bridgehead Association
The Beatrix Nursery... ... Birmingham ... CECS
The Croft ... Birmingham ... NCH
Sheldon House ... Birmingham ... TocH Womens Association
Harris House ... Birmingham ... Dr. Bamardo’s
Stephenson Court ... Birmingham ... NCH
53/55 Wildmore Road ... Solihull ... Dr. Bamardo’s
Red Gables ... Wolverhampton ... NCH
St. Jude’s House ... Wolverhampton ... Church of England Temperance
Society
The Haven ... Hereford ... ... Diocesan Association of Moral
Welfare
St. Mary’s ... Ledbury ... ... CECS
Corris House ... MuchWenlock ... Dr. Barnardo’s
Shelton House ... Shrewsbury ... Dr. Barnardo’s
St. Michael’s ... Burton-on-Trent ... CECS
Elizabeth Bishop House ... Warwick ... ... Dr. Barnardo’s
Princess Alice Drive ... ... Sutton Coldfield ... NCH
St. Christopher’s ... Solihull ... CECS
St. Anne’s ... Leamington Spa ... CECS
Longford ... Leamington Spa ... NCH
Watson House ... Sutton Coldfield ... NCH
Hallow Park ... Worcester ... ... Dr. Barnardo’s
Holy Cross Lodge ... ... Stourbridge ... CECS
St. Edward’s House ... ... Malvern ... ... Commonwealth Students
Childrens Society
Spennels ... Kidderminster ... Dr. Barnardo’s
Whitegates ... Bromsgrove ... Tutnal Childrens Home Trust
Tennal Birmingham Local Committee

St. Gilberts Hertlebury Brothers of the Christian Schools
St. John’s Home Birmingham Sisters of Charity of St. Vincent
de Paul

^^5
6 February, 1974.] [Continued,
AREA 5

Craiglands Lincoln ... Church of England Conunittee
for Social Aid

Nazareth House Dallington ... Poor Sisters of Nazareth
Nazareth House Nottiniâm Poor Sisters of Nazareth
South Bank Nottingham NCH
Springfield Nottingham NCH
Carmel Kirby Muxlow Corpus Christi Carmelite Sisters
Steep Hill House Lincoln NCH
EvenleyHall Brackley ... NCH
Harvey Goodwin House Cambridge CECS

Egerton House Brackley ... ... Local Committee
St.John’s Apethorpe ... ... Northampton Diocesan Catholic
Child ftotection Welfare Society
St.John’s Tiffield ... Local Committee
Eaton Hill ••• ••• Little Eaton, Nr. Derby ... CECS
Ernest Bailey Residential Matlock CECS
Nursery
Morley Manor Morley, Nr. Derby Dr. Barnardo’s
St. Monica’s ... Ashbourne CECS
Charnwood House Loughborough CECS
1-6 Glenfield Frith Cottages Leicester Dr. Barnardo’s
Stanton House Stoney Stanton Children’s Family Trust Ltd.
Crossways South Hykenham, Lines. Children’s Family Trust Ltd.
“ Lynwood Manor ” Market Rasen Children’s Family Trust Ltd.
The Mill House Ingham, Lines Children’s Family Trust Ltd.
The Dower House Gayton Children’s Family Trust Ltd.
St. Gabriel’s Kettering CECS
North Clifton Hall North Clifton Children’s Family Trust Ltd.
St. Christophers Derby Railway Children’s Home
Caledon Sherwood, Notts CECS
AREA 6

Harvey Goodwin House Cambridge ... CECS
95 Luncies Road Basildon, Essex ... ... Crusade of Rescue
97 Luncies Road Basildon, Essex ... ... Crusade of Rescue
St. Mary’s Beccles ... Poor Servants of Mother of God

Essex Home Chelmsford ... Local Committee
Red House Buxton ... Local Committee
Kerrison Eye ... ... Local Committee


Nazareth House Southend-on-Sea ... .. Poor Sisters of Nazareth
Stamford House Thorpe Bay, Essex .. John Grooms Association for
Disabled
Glebe House Cambridge .. Friends of Therapeutic Community
Collier House Colchester .. Dr. Parnardo’s
Hill House Kelvedon, Essex ... .. Save the Children Fund
Foley House Braintree, Essex ... .. Dr. Barnardo’s
Orchard House Ingatestone, Essex .. West Ham Central Mission
Warlies Waltham Abbey, Essex .. Dr. Barnardo’s
The Corner House Clacton-on-Sea .. Dr. Barnardo’s
White Barn Kelvedon, Essex ... .. Dr. Barnardo’s
St. Joseph’s Residential Sheringham, Norfolk .. The Northampton Diocesan
Nursery Society
“ Westcroft ” Sheringham, Norfolk .. NCH
St. Hilary’s Children’s Home Walsingham, Norfolk .. Walsingham College Trust
Association
St. Michael’s Home Bungay, Norfolk ... .. All Hallows Community
Harland House Felixstowe, Suffolk .. Dr. Barnardo’s
St. Nicholas Lowestoft .. CECS
AREA 7
Nazareth House Oxford Poor Sisters of Nazareth
Eversholt House Leighton Buzzard, Beds.... CECS
St. Etheldreda’s Bedofrd St. Albans Diocesan Deaconess
Home
St. Mary’s Newbury, Berks CECS
Wellesley House Windsor Local Trustees
St. Agatha’s Princess Risborough, Bucks. CECS
Highfield School Harpenden, Herts. ... NCH
St. Albans Knebworth, Herts. ... CECS
Wellbury House Hitchin, Herts St. Christopher’s Fellowship
Carlton Carlton, Beds Local Committee
Herts. Training Ware Herts. Training School Ltd.

St. Andrews Reading ... CECS
St. Benets Caversham ... CECS
Chiltern Nursery/Training Caversham ... Chiltern Mothercraft Training
College Society
Chiltern Nursery/Training Caversham ... Chiltern Mothercraft Training
College Society
St. Francis Home Shefford, Beds. ... Northampton Diocesan Catholic
Child Protection
The Crossways Newbury, Berks. ... ... Coral Atkins Home Ltd.
Harts Leap Camberley ... Cheshire Foundation Homes for
Sick
High Close Wokingham • • • ... Dr. Barnardo’s
West Ham Home & Hostel for Beconsfield ... Committee of West Ham
Girls
Royal Caledonian Schools ... Bushey, Herts. ... Royal Caledonian Schools
Verney Hostel Hertford ... ... Dr. Barnardo’s
Turners Court Benson, Oxon. ... Turners Court

St. Benedicts Reading Brothers of the Christian Schools

897
19
AREA 8

St. Josephs Home ... , Enfield, Middx. , Crusade of Rescue
Fairhaven London, S.E.13 National Association for Mental
Health
St. Charles Home & Lwanga London, W.IO Crusade of Rescue
House
George Blount Home for Boys London, S.W.16 Sisters of Charity St. Vincent de
Paul
St. Catherine’s London, N.W.ll CECS
Langdale House London, N.W.7 Sisters of Charity St. Vincent de
Paul
St. Josephs Convent... London, S.E.I2 St. Joseph’s Convent
The Haven London, S.E.24 Salvation Army
Holy Child Babies Home Chislehurst, Kent Southwark Catholic Childrens
Society
Court Lodge Knockholt, Kent CECS
St. Annes Orpington, Kent Southwark Catholic Children’s
Society
St. Michael’s Chislehurst, Kent CECS
Fairlop House London, E.ll National Association for Mental
Health
St. Mary’s Residential School London, E.17 Sisters of Charity
Hambro House London, S.W.15 CECS
Finnart House Weybridge ... Local Committee
Royal Philanthropic Redhill ... Royal Philanthropic Society
Princess Mary Village Homes Addlestone Local Committee
Avalon.. Chislehurst Salvation Army
Ave Maria London, S.E.9 Local Committee
Duncroft Staines National Association for Mental
Health (Inc.)
St. Thomas More West Grinstead Southwark Catholic Children’s
Society
St. Vincents ... Dartford ... Southwark Catholic Children’s
Society
St. Vincents ... Tankerton ... Southwark Catholic Children’s
Society

New Farningham House Chislehurst, Kent NCH
“Millfield” London, N.6 Committee of St. Pancras Orphan-
age
Deepdene South Croydon Mission of Hope
Hursthouse South Croydon Mission of Hope
Netherheys South Croydon Dr. Barnardo’s
Reedham School Purley, Surrey Reedham Orphanage Board of
Management
Alexandra House Ealing NCH
32 Woodville Gardens Ealing Dr. Barnardo’s
“ Nicholas Lodge ” ... Winchmore Hill Nicholas Galperin Trust
Warren Wood Shooters Hill, S.E.18 Save the Children Fund
Nazareth House Hammersmith, London, Poor Sisters of Nazareth
W.6
St. Saviours 47 Harrow View, Harrow, CECS
Middx.
Nazareth House Richmond Road, Isleworth, Poor Sisters of Nazareth
Middx.


St. Christophers House 13 Burton Road, Chiswick, Fellowship of St. Christopher
W.4
St. Christophers House 4 Osterley Road, Isleworth, Fellowship of St. Christopher
Middx.
St. Christophers House 8 Osterley Road, Isleworth, Fellowship of St. Christopher
Middx.
Holly Park Nursery Islington Norwood Homes for Jewish
Children
74 Kingston Hill Kingston upon Thames ... Dr. Bamardo’s
102 Auckland Hill West Norwood Norwood Homes for Jewish
Children
17 Chatsworth Way West Norwood Norwood Homes for Jewish
Children
19 Chatsworth Way West Norwood Norwood Homes for Jewish
Children
Gabriel House West Norwood Norwood Homes for Jewish
Children
Samuel House West Norwood Norwood Homes for Jewish
Children
Stephany House West Norwood Norwood Homes for Jewish
Children
137 St. Julian’s Farm Road... West Norwood Nowrood Homes for Jewish
Children
28 Thurlstone Road West Norwood Norwood Homes for Jewish
Children
Nazareth House East Finchley Poor Sisters of Nazareth
31 Station Road Sidcup Dr. Barnardo’s
Inglewood Wembley Dr. Barnardo’s
63 Copers Cope Road Beckenham Dr. Barnardo’s
St. Hilda’s Beckenham CECS
St. Christopher’s House Richmond Fellowship of St. Christophers
Stroud House Richmond The Church Army.
Coram Nursery London, W.C.l Thomas Coram Foundation
St. Luke’s Balham CECS
Naomi House Brockley Barbican Mission to the Jews
Sacred Heart School for Girls Lewisham Sisters of Sacred Heart of Jesus
and Boys and Mary
Children’s Home and Mission South Woodford Children’s Home and Mission
65 Eastwood Road Goodmayes Wellclose Square Fund
The Garden City Woodford Bridge Dr. Barnardo’s
Tudor House Barkingside Dr. Barnardo’s
Village Home Barkingside Dr. Bamardo’s
Fortescue House Twickenham Shaftes Homes and Arethusa
100 CoUege Road Dulwich Dr. Barnardo’s
Hill House Carshalton Beeches Mr. Fegan’s Homes
AREA 9
The Beacon St. Leonards-on-Sea ... The Church Army
Denny House Gravesend ... Southwark Catholic Childrens
Society
St. Mary’s Residential Nursery Gravesend ... Southwark Catholic Childrens
Society
Villa Maria Marist Convent Hythe t • • ... Marist Sisters
Anna Wilson House Tankerton ... • • • ... Salvation Army
Nazareth House Bexhill-on-Sea ... Poor Sisters of Nazareth
Osmunda Bexhill-on-Sea • • • ... Southwark Catholic Childrens
Society
St. Annes Home ... Hove ... Poor Servants of Mother of God
Ledbury ... Chichester ... ... Chichester Diocesan Moral Wel-
fare Association

8|9

Assisted Community Home

Woodlands East Grinstead Salvation Army
Festal ozzi Childrens Village

Sedlescombe Trust
Prospect House Heathfield Mr. Fegan’s Homes
Stildon ...East Grinstead
... CECS
The Old Vicarage Nutley, Sussex Children’s Family Trust
Tinkers Hatch Cross-in-Hand, Heathfield Mr. Fegan’s Homes
East Grinstead
Yarburgh Children’s Home... Yarburgh Committee
Carmthers Corfield House ...
Rustington CECS
Forest House Horsham NCH
Margaret House Bognor Regis Dr. Barnardo’s
Offham House Arundel Southwark Catholic Children’s
Society
Rosaz House ... Brighton Brighton and Hove Girls
Orphanage
St. Gabriel’s Brighton CECS
Towers House Eastbourne Eastbourne Free Church Womens
Council
St. Mary’s St. Leonards-on-Sea Fellowship of St. Nicholas
St. Joseph’s Hastings, Sussex Fellowship of St. Nicholas
St. Laurence St. Leonards-on-Sea Fellowship of St. Nicholas
St. Richard’s St. Leonards-on-Sea Fellowship of St. Nicholas
Sandrock Hall Hastings Salesian Sisters of John Boscoe
Beth Holme Holiday Home Southborough, Kent Children’s Country Holiday Fund
anc.)
Caldecott Community AshfoLd, Kent Caldecott Community Ltd.
East Court Ramsgate CECS
Pilgrim House Westerham John Groom’s Association for the
Disabled
Kendall House Gravesend Canterbury and Rochester
Diocesan Council for Social
Work
Kennard Maidstone Dr. Barnardo’s
Little Dumpton Broadstairs Mr. Fegan’s Homes
Meadows Memorial Home ... Southborough Dr. Barnardo’s
St. Christopher’s Tunbridge Wells ... Dr. Barnardo’s
St. George’s Tunbridge Wells ... CECS
St. Mary’s Home Broadstairs St. Michael Church Extension
Association
Spurgeon’s Home Birchington Trustees of Spurgeons
Stonleigh Canterbury Mr. Fegan’s Homes
Sunny Holme Broadstairs Mr. Fegan’s Homes
“Ashwood” Woking NCH
Broken Hill Woking Ockendon Venture
Esher House East Molesey Shaftesbury Homes
Highams Hall Windlesham Convent of Good Shepherd
Keffolds House Haslemere Ockendon Venture
Langford Cross Children’s Guildford Voluntary Committee
Home
Pastens Limpsfield NCH
“ Rosemead ” Reigate Dr. Barnardo’s
St. Faith’s Home Dorking Trustees
Southern Railwaymen’s Home Woking Board of Management
for Children
Venables and Venture House Woking Ockendon Venture
High Beech Nutfieid Rainer Foundation
Beechwood House Heathfield Mr. Fegan’s Homes Inc.
High Broom Crowborough Dr. Barnardo’s
Malmesbury House St. Leonards-on-Sea NCH

«■
i ■<

Knotley House Tonbridge Dr. Bamardo’s

St. Laurence’s Tunbridge Wells Sisters of the Sacred Hearts
Park House Godaiming Local Committee
AREA 10

Summerlands Southsea, Hants. ... ... Salvation Army
St. Katherines Southbourne, Bournemouth CECS
Hawk’s Lease Lyndhurst CECS
Southdowns Old Ayresford NCH
Stokesmead Alverstoke, Gosport ... NCH
Sunnyside Chippenham, Wilts. ... CECS
FORMER APPROVED SCHOOL

Greenacres Caine ... Local Committee
Ashdene Southampton Dr. Barnardo’s

Corinaldo Bitterne Order of Our Lady of Charity
Melrose Bitterne Order of Out* Lady of Charity
Philomel Bitterne Order of Our Lady of Charity
St. Joseph’s Southampton Poor Sisters of Nazareth'
Talbot Manor Bournemouth CECS
The Old Barn Wareham ... CECS
The Firs Portsmouth Order of Our Lady of Charity
Crondale Lodge Farnham ... Board of Management
The Mount ... Waterlooville Our Lady of Charity
Queen Mary’s Nursery Aldershot ... Aldershot Command Ladies Trust
St. Anthony’s Convent Aldershot ... Franciscan Missionaries of Divine
Motherhood
“ Hillview ” Waterlooville Order of Our Lady of Charity
South Africa Lodge ... Waterlooville Royal Naval and Royal Marine
Children’s Home
St. Edwards ... Romsey Local Committee

Eastmore House Isle of Wight Local Committee
AREA 11

St. Faiths Torquay CECS
St. Vincent’s Home and St. Torquay Plymouth RC Diocesan 1
Phillips Boys Home
Esley House Stroud, Glos NCH
Gyde House Painswick, Glos NCH
Stonehill Stonehouse Marist Sisters
The Elms Langport CECS
Holmwood Bristol NCH
Nazareth House Stonehouse Poor Sisters of Nazareth.

6 Februaiy, 1974.] [Continued.

Avonside Bath Local Committee
Eagle House Bath Local Committee
Farringdon House Clyst Honiton Local Committee
Forde Park Newton Abbot Local Committee
Kingswood Bristol Local Committee
Longfords Minchin Hampton Church Moral Aid Assoc. (Inc.)
National Nautical Portishead Incorporated National Nautical
School Som.
Northbrook Exeter Local Committee
Sedbury Park Chepstow Local Committee
Ryalls Court Seaton National Children’s Homes
St. Joseph’s Ashwicke ... Sisters of The Good Shepherd

Devonport Royal Dockyard Nr. Tavistock ... Board of Directors
Children’s Home
British Seamen’s Boys Home Brixham ... Management
The Homestall Stroud ... Children’s Family Trust
Hatherley Brake Cheltenham ... Dr. Barnardo’s
Our Lady’s Homestead Stonehouse ... Marist Sisters
Bergin House Clevedon ... Muller Homes
Glandore Weston-super-Mare ... Muller
The Grange Weston-super-Mare ... Muller
Green Lodge Western-super-Mare ... Muller
Horsington House Templecombe ... Dr. Barnardo’s
Osm ^nd House Weston-super-Mare ... Muller
St. Edith’s Home Clevedon ... Children’s Extension (inc.)
Strathmore Clevedon ... Muller
Tilsley House Weston-super-Mare ... Muller
Ashley Down House Bristol 6 ... Muller
Alveston Lodge Bristol 6 ... Muller
11 Burghley Road Bristol ... Muller
Hillbury Bristol ... Muller
52 Ravenswood Road Bristol ... Muller
St. Veronica’s Bristol ... Sisters of Charity (Anglican)
Severnleigh Stoke Bishop ... Muller
Wick House Nursery Brislington ... CECS
Wright’s House Bristol ... Muller
12-13 Gordon Terrace Plymouth ... Dr. Barnardo’s
Sutherland Road Plymouth ... Dr. Barnardo’s
Tamar House Plymouth ... Dr. Barnardo’s
AREA 12

Llanelwy Wrexham

Clarenden Cardiff NCH
Tonllwyfan Colwyn Bay Boys and Girls Welfare Society
FORMER APPROVED SCHOOL
Assisted Community Home

Headlands Penarth National Children’s Homes

/

Ardwyn Dinas Powis NCH
Amhdl Llandudno Dr. Barnardo’s
Benarth Llanfairfechan Dr. Barnardo’s
BrynEithin ... Colwyn Bay Catholic Children’s Rescue Society
Csitref Melyn Conway Dr. Barnardo’s
Edward Nicholl House Cardiff CECS
Glandare House Newport Dr. Barnardo’s
HendreHall ... Barmouth Ockendon Venture
Home of the Good Shepherd Swansea CECS
Killay House ... Swansea NCH
Nazareth House Cardiff Poor Sisters of Nazareth
Nazareth House Swansea Poor Sisters of Nazareth
Nazareth House Wrexham Poor Sisters of Nazareth
Northlands ... Cardiff Salvation Army
Roden Villa ... Llandudno Dr. Bamardo’s
St. Cadoc’s ... Newport CECS
St. Giles House Wreâm CECS
St. Claires Convent Pantasaph Sisters of Charity
Y Cartref Carmarthen Calvinistic Methodist Church of
Wales
Ynyscedwyn ... Cardiff Dr. Bamardo’s
St. Euphrasias Troy Sisters of the Good Shepherd
Examinatioii of Witnesses
Mr. J. W. STACPOOLE, Under Secretary, Mr M. G. RUSSELL, C.B.E., Assistant
Secretary, Mr. E. C. MORRIS, Assistant Director, Social Work Service, and Dr.
PAMELA MASON, Senior Medical Officer, Department of Health and Social
Security, called in and examined.
Chairman. memorandum. This is the first session

1. Good afternoon, Mr. Stacpoole. of this investigation into the working of
Would you be kind enough to introduce the Children and Young Persons Act as
your colleagues to us? (Mr. Stac- it affects yoiur Department. I wonder if
poole.) Dr. Mason, of the Medical you would give us some information
Division of the Department, specialises about how the work is undertaken by the
in the psychiatry of children and youth. Department. How many civil servants
Mr. Russell is head of the branch dealing are working in this particular field and
with residential child care and the juve- what kind of civil servants are they?
nile delinquency aspects of policy as far What are their particular qualifications
as that is concerned. Mr. Morris, of the for dealing with this part of the legisla-
Social Work Service, is Assistant Direc- lation? Perhaps I can give a general
tor of the Social Work Service and he answer and ask Mr. Russell to fill in
advises on the same front as Mr. Russell the details because it is his branch of
deals with juvenile delinquency aspects. which we will be speaking mainly. As
I mentioned, I am head of the Children’s
2. Have you a particular responsibility Division and I am an administrative civil
in this area as well? ^Yes. I am head servant. Mr. Russell’s branch is an ad-
of the Children’s Division of which Mr. ministrative branch and is concerned not
Russell’s branch forms a part and which so much with the operation of the Act
has various other responsibilities. as with advising the Secretary of State
3. Let me begin by thanking you for on matters connected with the operation
letting us have the memorandum and of the Act, since to a very great extent
for agreeing to come here and submit the operation of the Act is in the hands
yourselves to our questioning on the of local authorities. Mr. Russell has

903
25
6 February, 1974.] Mr, J. W. STACPOOLE, [Continued.

Mr. M. G. RUSSELL, C.B.E., Mr. E. C. MORRIS and Dr. PAMELA MASON.
four principals responsible to him and bit of it each individual officer does. The
their specialities are as follows. There work of winding up approved schools is
in a principal concerned with policy mat- fairly bread and butter stuff now and
ters connected with child care and with involves making arrangements for the
all aspects of the treatment of children. transfer of responsibility from one
There is a principal who is to a great management body to another—^from
extent concerned with placement prob- voluntary organisations to local authori-
lems. Hiere is a principal who is con- ties—and dealing with the financial con-
cerned with building matters in so far as sequences and so on. Apart from that,
they affect us. The fourth principal is the development work is based on the
concerned with financial aspects. An- examination and supervision of local
other responsibility exercised by his authorities’ regional plans for community
branch is ffie winding up of the approved homes.
school system which is provided for in 8. Do local authorities appeal to you
the Act. Before handing over to Mr.
Russell I would like to point out that we when in difficulty about the right place
advise the Secretary of State and we to place a girl or boy? ^They ask for
accept advice from the professional hier- our good offices.
archies—^the Social Work Service Direc- 9. What does that mean? ^The
tor and the Assistant Director, Mr. Department has no ^wers in relation
Morris, who is primarily concerned with to the placing of children. This is a
the operation of the Act, and the Chief matter for the pîcular local authority
Medioail Officer under whom Dr. Mason or the body which runs the particular
though not directly, is concerned with estabiishment in which a placement is
psychiatric aspects. I think that is all it desired, but the Department, both at
is useful to mention at this stage. headquarters and regional offices, is pre-
4. Who assists Dr. Mason? (Dr. pared to use its good offices in trying
Mason.): I work in a mental health sec- to help the local authority to find a
tion with six other principals and 1 also placement. Could 1 say a word about
work with an administrative division. the intermediate treatment schemes?
These are distinct from plans for resi-
5. The six other principals are not dential establishments because they are
involved in this work? ^Not directly, sets of arrangements for enabling chil-
but they are part of a group. The dren under supervision and living in
mental health administrative division is their own homes to participate in various
partly involved in developing provision activities. These schemes are made by
for children. regional planning committees and are
6. How do you exercise your respon- done under the general guidance of the
sibilities in the Department?-—I am Department as to the kind of things
responsible for taking part with multi- which should go into the schemes. The
disciplinary groups in the development Secretary of State has responsibility for
of policy for the provision of services for fixing the date for schemes to come into
children and youth {a) in a medical operation when they are submitted by
setting and {h) in a non-medical setting. regional planning committees. We have
This brings me into the area of the work a certain amount of work to do in con-
following the Children and Young nection with the re-organisation of local
Persons Act—^social services and work government because the regional planning
concerning the Department of Education committees are based on the former
and Science. local government boundaries and have
to be re-designated by the Secretary of
7. Mr. Russell deals with placement State to fit the new local government
problems? (Mr. Stacpoole.) Yes. boundaries. This involves consultations
(Mr. Russell.) Mr. Stacpoole has des- with local authorities. A new local
cribed the organisation of the branch authority may say, “We would rather
which has four sections each with a be in this region than in that region.”
principal in charge of a particular asi^ct That is about as far as I can take it at
of residential care or the intermediate the moment.
treatment schemes. Perhaps you would
permit me to describe what the work is 10.
rather than to go into details as to which with the Home Office? think nearly

6 February, 1974.] Mr. J. W. STACPOOLE, [Continued.

everybody in the branch is in touch with gional planning committees as opposed to

the Home Office on one thing and die satisfactory nature of ithose proposals
another, but I myself am in almost daily in terms of (the requirements of the Act?
and hourly consultation with the Home (Mr. Stacpoole.) If I may speak first
Office. We work closely with the Home on that, the first point I would like to
Office. make is that the regional plans were sub-
11. On what sort of problems? mitted to the Secretary of State from
On problems connected with juvenile 1971 and 1972 onwards and were all
delinquency, for example. The Home approved on 1st April, 1973. Therefore,
Office and Department of Health and it is not the case that there is a series
Social Security attend periodic meetings of regional plans coming forward con-
of the Juvenile Courts Committee of the stantly for consideration in the light of a
Magistrates Association which sends us rolling-forward plan which would receive
their agenda in advance. We are very the sort of consideration of which you
happy to attend and comment We have spoke.
an arrangement with the Home Office 16. In paragraph 19 there are com-
as to who is going to deal with which ments on the present plans prepared by
item and so on in relation to matters the R.P.C.s in 1971 and 1972 based
involving courts, court procedure and on estimated needs up to 1975. There is
services for children because, broadly, reference to an increase of 6*3 per cent,
the Home Office is responsible for courts about half-way down the paragraph.
and court procedure. Further down we get the construction
of 448 homes providing 7,666 places (a
12. Are you yourself required to go very precise calculation of the number
to court in person? ^Not personally, of places) at an estimated cost of £29*5
no. Perhaps I did not make myself million at 1972 prices. I think I am right
clear. The Home Office is not normally in saying that that represents an increase
involved in individual cases app^ring of 23 per cent, on the number of places
before the courts; it is involved in the mentioned in paraâph 9. It seems to
general administration of juvenile courts. me that the expenditure of £29.5 million
13. But I asked if you were ever is very high for that comparatively small
required to go to court? ^No; my numb^ of places. How much is it per
work does not involve that. head? Î have not done the arithmetic.
14. No one from your Department 17. It comes to something like £33,000
goes? ^No. It could happen but it per place, does it not? ^No—roughly
would be very exceptional. If it was £4,000.
necessary, for example, to prove the Mr. Boscawen.
validity of an authorisation by the Secre- 18. It is true that the decisions of the
tary of State to a local authority to bring courts are to some extent influenced by
a child before the court with a view to what accommodation and facilities are
transfer to borstal under section 31, then available. Therefore, the effectiveness
somebody would have to go to court to of the Act is influenced by what is
prove the validity of that authorisation, available. What useful part does your
but we are not normally involved in Department play in ensuring that the
attendance at court. What we are con- court has all the available information
cerned with is (the provision of services by as to what residential accommodation
local authorities. There is an area in is available? ^The position is that
which what courts do and what local under the Act where a residential form
authorities do has to be very closely of treatment is considered suitable, the
co-ordinated, and it is really on that court makes a care order to put the
general basis that we have frequent con- child in the care of the local authority
sultations with the Home Office. and it is for the local authority to decide
where the child should be placed. It is
Mr. Sains bury. no longer ithe case that the court will
15. Mr. Stacpoole mentioned that there say to itself, “This is a good case for
was a finance section principal respon- such and such an approved school. I
sible to Mr. Russell. To what extent wonder whether they have a place. We
would the Department comment on the had better make sure about it before
cost effectiveness of the proposals of re- making an order.”


Chairman. local authority cannot find accommoda-

19. This was what happened before? tion what useful part does the Depart-
-—Yes, but the legal position now is ment play in those circumstances?
that the court’s power is to place the (Mr. Stacpoole.) The Department’s func-
child in the care of the local authority tion in that respect is not the playing
and the local authority’s power is to of a useful part in the provision of
decide where the child should be placed, accommodation. The Department has
so the question in the form it is asked to ensure that the system set up by the
does not arise. Act works to the best of our ability.
Our first job is to familiarise ourselves
20. But who is it who decides where with the very complex operation of the
the child is to be placed? ^The local Act which is so largely in the hands of
authority’s resjwnsibility in relation to local authorities. Our next job, which
the Act is carried out by its social ser- now lies to some extent in the past, is
vices department. the setting up of regional planning com-
21. The director of social services in mittees consisting of local authorities.
effect? Yes. We encourage local authorities to set up
22. Before it was the children’s officer regional planning committees as the Act
of the local authority? Ît rested on requires in order that they may jointly
the children’s committee of the social co-operate in making the best use of the
services department. accommodation available to them and
23. Now it is the director of social the facilities available to them and in
services who may or may not be planning the creation of additional
experienced in the handling of these accommodation where that is necessary.
kinds of children? ^There will be The summary which has already been
directors who have no special qualifica- referred to rounds up what came out in
tions in relation to the handling of the initial planning exercise. We also
children, but it would indeed be an watch the operation of the Act and look
exceptional department which did not for things which do not seem to us to
have somebody experienced in the be going well. We also look for good
handling of children amongst its senior ideas which come up in one place and
staff, but Mr. Morris is better able to which we think it worthwhile to inform
answer that question than I am. others of. That is our primary function
24. Do you wish to add something to in relation to the question you have
that? (Mr. Morris.) I think the asked, but I would like to add that there
answer to the question may well be that is a very relevant but separate machinery
some authorities are better than others for authorising loan sanctions for the
as far as the experience of their staff building of new homes of all kinds. A
is concerned. It would be an exceptional local authority may seek to build new
authority, as Mr. Stacpoole has said, accommodation under a regional plan
wiiich had nobody witli any experience and in some cases without reference to
in dealing with children. Might I add that the regional plan, but in the instances we
it is not the senior staff of the depart- are speaking of under a regional plan
rnent who deals with it, that is, the the local authority is requir^ to apply
director and assistant director; it is the to the Secretary of State for sanction
social workers in the social services for its proposals. If you would like to
department who deal with it. They hear more of that machinery Mr. Russell
might consult their senior officers inside can explain it because he knows it much
the area—their senior social workers or better than I do. (Mr. Russell.)
area officers in charge of their particular Annually local authorities put in a three-
areas. It would be exceptional to go year programme for personal social
to the headquarters of the social services services, one section of which is com-
department. munity homes. It is the Secretary of
State’s function to inform each local
Mr. Boscawen. authority after examining their proposals
25. When an order is made putting a of the projects for which he expects to
child in the care of the local authority be able to give loan sanction in the next
it is for the local authority to find year and provisionally in the two follow-
accommodation for that child. If the ing years.


Chairman. Chairman.
26. What sort of sums are we talking 36. What are .the provisions of the Act
about for this three-year period?^ Ît which have not yet been implemented
woidd be of the order of £20 million to apart from the building programme?
£30 million for a three-year period on 1 have a note of these provisions.
past experience. They are in every case not of concern
to the Department of Health and Social
27. That would be shown in the Security and they are section 4, section
Expenditure White Paper under local 5(1) to (7), section 7(1) to (3), section 8
authorities’ capital expenditure, would and section 29(4).
it? It would be included in that
37. They are not your responsibility?
figure, yes. ^No.
28. In respect of personal social ser- 38. I am asking about your respon-
vices? It would not be separately sibility? ^There are no sections which
distinguished. are our responsibility which have not
29. Which heading would it come been brought into operation.
imder—^personal social services capital 39. It is really a matter of degree, is
expenditure? ^Yes. it? You are concerned about the set-
ting up of homes. You have a con-
30. The figure for 1973-74 is shown as siderable building programme and you
£85*8 million, so your sum would be have an assessment of the future needs
contained in that figure? ^Yes. as regards places, but you say that is on
31. Is there something in the curr^t the way to being implement^? ^Yes,
expenditure for local authorities, which indeed.
is £381 million, under your control?
What would be the proportion of that Mr. Sainsbury.
expenditure under your control? It is 40. There is a reference in paragraph
in the region of £50 million, but perhaps 14 to Schedule 3, paragraph 3, of the
I can check that and inform yoiu* Clerk Act and to the 11 continuing approved
later on about it. (Mr. Stacpoole.) Per- schools. That is taken not to be within
haps I can add that current expenditure the context of the question? Î hope
is in no real sense under our control; I did not misunderstand the question.
it is under the control of local Certain sections of the Act require a
authorities. formal act by the Secretap^ of State
to bring them into operation. Those
32. What I meant was that it was which have not been brought into opera-
shown in the body of the White Paper? tion are the ones I have just mentioned.
^Yes. The Act also requires action by a number
Mr. Sainsbury. of people to a number of effects. For
example, without speaking with legal
33. I would like to ask about the accuracy, it places on .the Department
April 1st transfer of responsibility and the task of winding up the approved
how it affects the number of local school system. That action is proceed-
authorities. Does it affect the structure ing and it has not been completed.
of the regional planning committ^?
^Yes ; the number of local authorities Chairman.
is reduced. 41. I was asking if there were any
34. As well as the number of directors areas which were your responsibility and
of social services? ^Yes. in which no progress had been made.
My next question would have been,
35. Do you have the figure? ^No, “Why no.t?” but you tell me there are
but we wiU provide that. It has neces- no areas which have not been covered
sitated a re-casting or adjustment of the by your Department? No. Perhaps
boundaries of the regional planning areas, I can help by saying that there are 11
but these are not very significant adjust- approved schools remaining which we
ments and they have in every case been have not been able lO persuade to join
carried out with the agreement of the the community home system. There are
local authority concern^. a number of registered children’s homes

6 February, 1974.] Mr. J, W. STACPOOLE, [Continued.

which again have not so far become thinks the child should be put into a
community homes. I forgot to mention community home and an independent
that there are the youth treatment cen- psychiatrist feels the child ought to be
tres which are another major respon- in his own home. How is that conflict
sibility of Mr. Russell's department. Only resolved? ^The process by which it
one has been opened so far and that ought to be resolved—and I assume in
is not yet fully operational. I think it is most cases it would be resolved—is that
that sort of consideration you are after. the various interested parties would hold
a case conference and discuss it until
42. Yes. You say in paragraph 2 that reaching agreement on the course to be
a care order made by a juvenile court adopted.
may remain in force until the subject
reaches 19. How is the care order re- 48. If they do not agree what hap-
moved? Can it be removed if the pens Somebody would have to decide
young person asks for it to be removed? it and the final responsibility would lie
(Mr. Morris.) Yes, if the court on the local authority.
agrees with the person wiho is the sub- 49. Then it is back with the social
ject of the care order. The person can worker? ^Y es.
apply to any juvenile court for the order
to be revoked. The local authority may 50. There is no independent person
apply for the revocation of the order. who can be appealed to? No.
43. Either the local authority or the 51. So the local authority can insist
young person concerned can ask for it on its original decision being carried out?
to be revoked? ^Yes. ^Yes.
52. It is not very democratic?
Mr. Sainsbwy. (Mr. Stacpoole) The local authority is
44. At any time? If the young person an elected authority.
applies and the application is rejected can 53. But it is not the elected members
he apply soon after that for the order who make the decision; it is th^* officers
to be revoked? ^Yes; he can keep on who make it? ^The decision is sub-
applying. ject to the review of the elected
45. Would he be entitled to legal aid members.
in putting forward his application? Chairman: Having been a member
Yes, or his parents might do it on his of a local authority, I know what sort
behalf. of detail is given to committees and
what information committees have.
Chairman.
Mr. Sainsbury : Would it not be true
46. How easy is it for a child in care to say that committee chairmen and
to be removed from a community home members vary in terms of the kind of
to stay with friends or whatever other detail they ask for?
arrangement might be made? Is the
decision as to where the child is first Chairman
placed flexible or inflexible? ^The
answer is tliat in the first instance it is 54. Or the kind of detail they can be
easy because it is a matter within the given. They cannot all visit the homes
discretion of the social worker concerned concerned and interview the parents and
with the child on behalf of the local see what the home circumstances are
authority. If the social worker thinks it like. One reads of very disturbing cases
is in the child’s best interests for it to from time to time in the press involv-
go home it will go home. If the child ing children who are put into various
is in a residential establishment there is kinds of local authority establishments
nothing to prevent that child going home and where the available information
at particular times—^weekends or holi- seems to indicate that they should be
days. There is nothing to prevent the back in their own homes or in a less
child going home permanently if that is formal atmosphere supported perhaps
thought to be in the child’s best interests. by psychiatric help? ^There has been
a good deal of criticism (less now than
47. What happens if there is a con- when the Act first came- into effect) to
flict? Let us suppose the local authority the effect that local authorities are

t' I I
6 Februai-y, 1974.] Mr. J. W. STACPOOLE, [Continued.

excessively given to placing children in are received into care without any court
their own homes rather than in institu- orders.
tions. The Magistrates protested
vigorously about this. 58. What proportion are received into
care in this way? 1 think between one
55. Where do probation officers fit half and two thirds are children who are
into the new scheme? ^The probation received into care under section 1 of
officer's functions are now restricted, in the 1948 Act without any compulsion,
relation to children and young persons, either because there are no parents to
to young persons, that is to say, children look after .them or because the parents
aged between fourteen and seventeen, agree to the children being received into
unless he already has a connection with care
the family, or is already working with
some other member of the family, in 59. You may find this a rather strange
which case he can take on a child. question, but are the children ever con-
sulted as to whether they would rather
56. Is it not the case that one of the stay in a community home or go to a
changes which has taken place since the foster home? Do they ever have any
Act came into force is that the probation choice in the matter? ^They do not
officer has a less important role to have any final choice. The local autho-
play in deciding how a young person rity is by law invested wrth the rights
should be treated and managed? ^Yes. and responsibilities of the parent and a
It was a purpose of the Act to trans- child of fourteen in the care of a local
fer the responsibility for the super- authority is subject to the local autho-
vision of children from probation rity’s control, just as my daughter is
officers to children’s departments, thus subject to my control. Mr. Morris can
freeing probation officers from this work spe^ on this, but I have always under-
and enabling them to concentrate on stood that one of the first principles of
adults and young people. Mr. Russell professional child care is that .the pro-
is more familiar with this than I am fessional people concerned establish con-
and I think he has a correction to fidence between themselves and the child
make to something I said a moment or and take the child’s wishes into account,
two ago. (Mr. Russell.) To make sure just as I would take into account my
there is no misunderstanding, if the child daughter’s wishes.
is subject to a care order committing
him to the care of a local authority .the 60. I hope they all do? ^There are
probation service will not have any something like 17,000 social workers. We
official status in the case at all. As a do not know about all of them, but it is
matter of professional practice any a fairly well established principle that the
probation officer who was involved with child should be given an opportunity of
the family or who had previously been discussing these things and ils views
involved with the child would be con- should be taken into account as far as
sulted, but where there is a supervision possible. The older a child is the more
order giving a local authority no one takes its wishes into account. If a
power to remove a child from its home, child of six says he would rather be with
the supervisor chosen by the court may so and so you will take that into account,
be either the local authority or a pro- but he may not be in the best position
bat’on officer in the case of a person to judge what is best for him. If a boy
over fourteen, so the probation service of seventeen says he would rather go
still has a fairly effective role to play in into the Navy than the Army it is a
relation to supervision orders for the much more decisive factor in the final
older age group but no function in decision.
relation to care orders.
57. Is it possible for a child to be Mr. Sain.sbiiry.
taken into care without an application 61. I wonder if Dr. Mason would like
first being made to the court? Not to comment on the question of contiol
taken into care by the local authority touched on by Mr. Russell who men-
against the wish of the child’s parents, tioned his daughter. (Dr. Mason.)
but the child may be received into care; You have used the word “control
indeed, the majority of children in care This is one of the crucial philosophical

909

points running through the whole pro psychologists to see how we can build
vision for children. As Mr. Russell has in support services to give them greater
said, one of the philosophies of child background reference and to enable
care is that you try to provide what the them to refer decisions back to skilled
child needs which may not be what the people behind them, but this is still in the
child wants. What the child wants and early stages.
v^hat it needs may not be the same thing.
Working as I do in the field as well as Mr. Boscawen.
being attached to the central Department,
my experience, particularly now that 64. In a large number of the cases
people are much more verbal than they involving children coming before the
used to be, is that a great deal of dis- court truancy is the probliem. Does this
cussion takes place on what is right for involye your Department or the Depart-
the child and what the child itself feels ment of Education and Science? Whose
is also discussed with him. There is also responsibility is it to see that the child
discussion with the parents, the social is either back at school or a decision is
worker caring for the child and people made as to the best form of treatment to
caring for children in residential institu- be given?—(Mr. Stacpoole.) I think Mr.
tions. There is a great deal of inter- Morris can help on this, but, briefly, the
change of everybody’s point of view. responsibility goes to the educational
welfare worker and that responsibility
Mr. Hamilton. leads ultimately to the Department of
62. Does that include medical and Education and Science. (Mr. Morris.) It
psychiatric help? There may be medical depends on what action the education
or psychological reasons why a child authority takes in the case of a child
should be treated in one way as distinct absent from school without permission.
If the child does not appear before the
from another. For example, is the local court the education authority deals with
G.P. of the family consulted? Is pro- it presumably through its educational
vision made for that? -This is part of welfare officers. If the child is brought
the practice and it stems from what hap- before the court the court decides what
pen^ in the old days of the children’s should happen to the child. It may place
departments and the approved school the child under a supervision order, in
system where centrally we spent a lot of which case the order will be exercised
effort building up psychiatric and probably by the social services depart-
medical advice to approved schools and ment, or it might be a probation officer
the social services, bearing in mind according to the age of the child. If the
medical, psychological and social factors. court makes a care order the child is in
The skill in planning for these children the care of the local authority like any
is to see the children as individuals beair- other child. You asked which Depart-
ing in mind there might be overriding ment was responsible. If it is a case
psychological, medical and social factors where the court has made a supervision
in particular cases. order or a care order then the responsi-
bility falls on our Department ultimately.
Mr. Reed. In the absence of either of those orders
63. Given the case load most social it is a matter for the Department of
workers have, do you feel we will see Education and Science and the local
changes in the amount of time the education authority.
people concerned have to consider indi-
vidual cases? Have you any idea of how 65. It depends on the court’s decision?
much time they are able to devote to In the second place, yes. In the first
individual cases? ^This is a develop- place it must be decided whether to bring
ing thing. This Act is really an enabling the child before the court or not. It may
Act and we are beginning from the not be necessary to do that. Running
beginning in every area. Certainly the through the whole thing is the fact that
social worker’s time is one of the import- the local authority social services depart-
ant areas. There is not enough time. ment may be working with the family
The other thing we are concerned about under the heading “ Preventive Work ”.
is the skills they have available. I have They might be visiting the family any-
many discussions with mv psychiatric way, but that is not a matter involving
colleagues and with social workers and any orders. One hopes that they would

1
I V
6 February, 1974.] Mr. J. W. STACPOOLE, [Continued,

co-operate with the education authority beginning. We are always having philo-
on the whole question of truancy. sophical discussions on this topic and
society never seems to know what it
66. Is it your view that this co-opera- wants us to do—^whether it wants us to
tion between the two bodies is working shut people up or whether it wants us
properly? 1 am not sure what is to put them into the community. One of
meant by “properly”. One has one’s the points of our discussion now is how
own ideas. much we think society will accept or
Chairman. tolerate in its midst juvenile delin-
67. Tell us what they are? ^To the quents and to what extent they should be
best of my knowledge, it is working reas- put into institutions. The argument in
onably satisfactory. It is very difficult the past was that if you put them into
to know whether it is working properly. institutions you cut them off from
The complaints one hears about children restoration. We are now thinking more
being absent from school are not neces- meaningfully of what we really need to
sarily complaints about the machinery do with this very flexible Act. At the
for remedying that situation. But to the moment we are not quite sure what to do
best of my knowledge there is nothing a because society does not know what to
good deal amiss with the machinery for do.
dealing with the situation if it is brought 72. How did you decide whether a
to the attention of those responsible. home should be a controlled home or
68. Perhaps it is overloaded? ^Yes. assisted home? What were the criteria
Social workers and educational welfare which guided you?—^—(Mr. Stacpoole.)
officers have a lot of other functions It is a question of what the managers of
besides those we have been speaking the home wish.
about which detract from the time avail- 73. It was left to them? (Mr.
able to carry them out. Russell.) It depends on agreement
between the local authority and the
69. You do say that one of the changes voluntary organisation which owns the
was to give local authorities discretion
and to provide flexibility which the premises in the first place. Unless there
earlier legislative arrangement lacked. Do is agreement between them nothing can
you now feel, having had some experi- happen. Secondly, it depends on the
ence of the working of the Act, that there Secretary of State approving that parti-
is that flexibility which you hoped for? cular item in the regional plan desig-
(Mr. Stacpoole.) Yes, most certainly. nating a certain home as a controll^
The flexibility is there because additional or assisted home. He has taken the line
options are open to the persons con- that assisted status, that is to say, status
cerned with the treatment of children. in which the home is managed by a
volunt^ organisation with the local
70. Providing the children fit into a authority having only a minority repre-
reasonable* pattern, because you always sentation on the board, should be con-
have a number of children who are dif- fined to organisations having a wider
ficult to deal with and who create prob- function than simply the management of
lems? ^Yes, but the Act set out to mdividual homes. Under the approved
implement what the Department is pres- school set up there was a considerable
ently implementing, that is, it is creating number of approved schools managed by
a range of facilities for children with dif- voluntary organisations whose sole
ferent problems. It would be our ambi- function was the management of this or
tion to make appropriate provision for that approved school. Others were
any child with reasonably anticipatable managed by organisations with wider
difficulties. functions like Dr. Barnardo’s Homes or
71. What do you feel about that. Dr. denominational bodies. Broadly speak-
Mason, looking at it from the psychia- ing, homes which become assisted homes
trist’s point of view? (Dr. Mason.) are managed by organisations with wider
We are developing flexibility. Tliis has functions than merely the management
been achieved by the Act. Before the of one particular home; otherwise, it
Act one felt that children were placed in depends on aêement between the
one situation and that was that, but in voluntary organisation and the local
developing flexibility we are still at the authority.

911

Mr. Sainsbury. That is not to say they are not dis-

turbed or upset, but they are less diffi-
74. As to the homes which are assisted cult to deal with in terms of behaviour
as opposed to controlled, are all the and temperament than those children in
children in those homes under care what used to be called approved schools.
orders? ^Not necessarily, but this
again depends on agreement between the 77. Can I ask about the R.P.C.’s and
voluntary organisation and the local how they are set up? Do voluntary
authority whidi is given statutory force organisations have seats on them?
by an instrument of management made (Mr. Russell) The constitution of the
by the Secretary of State in which it is R.P.C. is set out in fairly reasonable
provided that a number of places— detail in Schedule 2 of the Act. It
usually 75 per cent.—shall be reserved consists of all the local authorities in
for children in the care of local authori- the regional planning area designated by
ties. Those places are available to the Secretary of State. It is for those
children in the care of local authorities authorities to decide how many repre-
irrespective of whether they are under sentatives each has and how far they will
care orders from courts, or whether diey co-opt representatives of voluntary
are received into care without court organisations.
orders. 78. They have power to co-opt?
75. Can I ask if it is regarded as desir- Yes.
able to have this mix of children in these 79. Do you find there is a different
assisted homes? ^Perhaps Mr. Morris pattern all over the country? It is
can comment on that, but I would say fairly homogeneous but far from identi-
that the mix of children who are in the cal. Most of them do a fair amount of
care of local authorities and children co-option, particularly in relation to their
who are directly the responsibility of Dr. working bodies or sub-committees. An
Barnardo’s Homes is not in itself RPC meets usually only once every two
regarded as desirable or undesirable. or three months and it works mainly
What is regarded as desirable is that through its working groups and sub-
the children in the homes should be committees and co-opts to them.
children whose needs the homes are 80. How do you make estimates of the
equipped to meet irrespective of whether number of children who might be in
they are in the care of the local authority care in due course, because you attempt
or in the care of a voluntary organisa- to do that? (Mr. Stacpoole) The
tion. There is certainly no objection to RPCs were invited to make these esti-
the mix. (Mr. Morris) I think there mates. They gave certain figures and we
may be some confusion about C('m- have given our summation of their
munity homes. Are you talking of all estimates.
children’s establishments or of those
establishments which used to be approved 81. I wonder with what accuracy they
schools? can do that? ^With a fair degree of
accuracy. It is stated in the memorandum
76. All children’s establishments? diat the figure for the number of child-
As Mr. Russell has said, the object of ren in care at 31st March, 1973, is 93,500,
placing all children in these establish- and the sum of the local authorities’
ments is to provide a homogeneous unit, estimates of the number of children who
so whether a child is in care under would be in care on 31st March, 1975,
section 1 of the 1948 Act or subject to was 96,500, so this seems to be quite
a care order is not strictly relevant. You near the mark. (Mr. Russell) There has
will find that most, large establishments been for many years a general tendency
with education on the premises which for the number of children in care to rise
used to be approved schools have got the partly for demographic reasons and
more difficult boys and girls in them. partly for other reasons.
Those establishments which are also 82. I think we would be interested to
called community homes but which used hear about the other reasons? For
to be called children’s homes have got example, the general mobility of families
what an ordinary member of the public and children. Families move about more
would call ordinary' children in them. nowadays and you get less families where

6 February, 1974.] Mr. J. W. STACPOOLE, {Continued.

grandmother lives round the corner and creation of new places until the regional
can rally round. I do not think any of plans were brought into effect on 1st
us would care to elaborate on exactly April of last year.
why the number goes up each year, but
it does. 88. They are really on paper; plans
have been prepared? ^Yes. From
Mr. Sainsbury. 1971 to 1973 there was some building,
but I do not think one could say this
83. Is there a correlation between the was the result of the Act. We are in
number of children in care and the some difficulty here. As you can imagine,
divorce rate and the number of broken the creation of new community homes
marriages? (Mr. Stacpoole.) I do not or new wings is a project extending over
think we have made any attempt to about three years, so we have not got
establish such a relationship, but it is a there yet.
difficult one to establish because of the
difficulty in defining the term “ broken 89. Perhaps you could let us know
marriage”. There are various kinds of what is in the pipeline because we want
separations, some of which do not come to know how far local authorities have
to court. There are also co-habitations got in carrying out their duties. Perhaps
which never become marriages. you could also let us have some indica-
tion of what is being done by the RPCs
—what they have asked approval for and
Chairman. so on? ^Yes.
84. Can you give us some information
about the acquisition or construction of Mr. Sainsbury.
new premises which is referred to on 90. Let us return to paragraph 19
page 3 in paragraph 8(v)7 What is the referring to regional plans envisaging the
progress report on the acquisition and construction of 448 homes providing
building of new premises? 1 would 7,666 places which is an increase of
not be able to answer that without mak- approximately 19 per cent, in terms of
ing inquiries to list the new premises, home numbers and 23 per cent, in terms
and those which have been extended and of place numbers on the figures given
adapted over any particular period. on page 3. If does not seem to relate
85. I suppose the number of new con- to the anticipated increase of 6 3 per
structions is not very large? 1 would cent, in the number of children in resi-
not like to guess at that at this stage. dential care referred to in the same
We mention at one point in the paper paragraph? (Mr. Morris.) I did not
that £6*9 million is estimated as the hear all you said, but I believe you were
cost of capital expenditure. pointing out a discrepancy in the figures
between places planned and the number
86. For new buildings and for im- of children expected to be received or
provements? Major improvements. taken into care. All children are not in
Because of the arrangement for loan community homes. Some children may
sanctions which Mr. Russell mentioned be placed in voluntary homes or in
it is difficult to tell what a local autho- private homes; they would not neces-
rity has actually achieved in the way of sarily be in local authority accom-
creating new places in a given period modation. This might easily account
of time, but I am sure we can obtain for the discrepancy.
some information of this kind. (Mr. 91. It is rather a wide discrepancy.
Russell.) We could obtain some figures The figures show that an increase is
relating to a particular date over the expected of 6*3 per cent, in the number
last few years. of children requiring accommodation in
87. We are interested in what has been community homes. That is what is said.
done in terms of new c nstruction since It is also stated that an estimated 33,500
the operation of the Act. We are in- children were accommodated in such
terested in new construction and acquisi- establishments as at 31st March, 1973?
tion of existing premises which have been (Mr. Stacpoole.) As I mentioned
converted for use under these different earlier, this is a summation of the
headings? (Mr. Stacpoole.) The Act regional plans; it is not a centrally co-
did not have any effect in terms of the ordinated plan. Therefore, I can only

CO

guess at the reasons for it, but I feel 1964 that such places have been built.
the likely reason is that plans for new They are very, very expensive establish-
buildings are not restricted to totally ments and a regional planning com-
new accommodation because there is an mittee or local authority confronted with
element of replacement going on and the need to build twenty secure places at
there is a considerable programme of £15,000 to £20,000 each and fifty ordinary
improvement of standards going on in places at £4,000 each will be under a
these homes. When an old home is very strong temptation to prefer the
knocked down the re-building of it sel- second rather than the first. This is the
dom results in the creation of the same sort of situation we have to deal with,
number of places as before. This factor but it is very difficult to estimate the
may very well account for the number of children who are not being
discrepancy. accommodated in the system.
Mr. Boscawen. Mr. Reed.
92. Is there any estimate 93. When
available for Mr. Stacpoole prepares the
the number of children who cannot be figures for the number of new homes
placed in homes but who require that and conversions could he build into
form of treatment? What is the short- those figures some idea of the number
fall? ^There is not an estimate avail- of applications for loan sanction from
able like that and it is a rather diflScult local authorities which may or may not
question to answer. A child who cannot have been approved by the Department,
be placed in a home may be one of or are we talking about a direct relation-
rather a wide number of groups. For ship? Subject to taking advice about
example, it may be a girl of fifteen who any considerations about which I do
is very big and strong with a bad record not know, we can certainly do the former.
for violence. It may be very difficult, I did not really understand the last part
if not impossible, to find a community of the question.
home which will accept such a child. 94. Is it the case that virtually all
Again, the child may have gone applications for loan sanction have been
through a careful assessment process at granted, or is there a wide discretion?
an assessment centre which may have If so, we want to know why?
decided that a particular form of treat- 1 think I can say that not all appli-
ment would be suitable for him or her cations are granted. I would like to
and it may be found that that particular make the point that one of the reasons
form of treatment or accommodation is for the requirement on local authorities
not available. It may not be available who want to create new places to apply
because it is full. That is perhaps the for loan sanction is that it enables the
most obvious reason. It may also not Department, particularly the Social Work
be available for a variety of reasons. Service, to examine plans and assure
For example, it may be shut for three itself that they are consistent with the
weeks for holidays because this is the best current views on needs. I do not
only way to keep the staff. Apart from think I can elaborate on that.
the violent or strong child who is un-
placeable there is the type of child who Mr. Awdry.
has been placed in one, two or possibly 95. I can understand why you cannot
three community homes and who has give a figure for the shortfall as far
run away from each of them and yet as the placing of certain children is
does not seem to be the sort of child concerned, but is it a severe problem?
who ought to be locked up. In the end Are you continually having to scratch
such a child has to be put into a secure your heads and say, “Where shall we
place to be treated because the child put so and so ”? Is this a problem on
cannot be treated unless he or she is in which we ought to be exercising our
a secure place, but we then run up minds or is it fairly manageable? 1
against a shortage of secure places. This would not want to conceal tlic fact that
is one of our major shortages. As I it is quite a serious problem, but it con-
think the memorandum explains, the cerns a small number of rather acute
need for secure places has only fairly cases. You may have seen the Panorama
recently been recognised. It is only since programme about three weeks ago which


dealt with such a case. There are several is fostered and there are regulations
more and they are very difficult problems about how a local authority shall super-
for us, because, although we have no vise a child in its care which is fostered.
accommodation available except for
youth treatment centres, local authorities 100. Coming to fostering, are .there
as well as courts think that if there is different degrees of supervision exer-
no other solution they must ring up cised by social workers depending on
the Department of Health and Social the reasons for the fostering, or would
Security and the Department must the children all be tmder the same kind
arrange it. Perhaps I can be of more of general supervision? (Mr. Morris.)
help by saying that we regard this as The boarding out regulations lay down
a priority claim on available funds for statutory minimal requirements for visit-
construction. ing children who are boarded out.
101. For whatever reason? ^Yes, but
Mr. Sainsbury. within those minimal requirements the
96. Could Mr. Stacpoole also classify social worker will exercise his or her
the number of homes referred to in para- discretion. He or she may visit twice
graph 19 on page 7 by their general a w'eek in some cases or once every
three months in others. In some cases
type and give some indication of their frequent visits would be an intrusion
geographical spread? Going back to and in others a necessity. (Mr. Stacpoole.)
paragraph 9, that gives a figure of 93,000 I have now found the note explaining
in respect of the number of children in where these children are. The paper
care as at 31st March, 1973. We find mentions 16,000 children in the charge
that only 33,500 were placed in the and under the control of parents or
establishments listed, but we have 48 per close relatives. There are about 13,600
cent, requiring residential accommodation children who are the unexplained re-
when we get to paragraph 19? On the mainder of the addition sum. We have
first point, a minority of children in care 33,500 children in homes, 16,000 with
are accommodated in residential accom- parents or close relatives, 29,800 boarded
modation provided by local authorities or out and 13,600 to be accounted for.
by the Act. Some of them are in voluntary homes
outside the community home system,
97. But there is a discrepancy between that is, 3,500. All these figures are
the percentage indicated as at 31st rounded figures. 2,500 are in lodgings
March, 1973, and the expected percent- and residential employment. Then there
age at 31st March, 1975? ^Yes. are 2,500 in boarding schools and
special schools outside the community
98. Is there an explanation for that home system. There are 450 in approved
difference? 1 would be grateful if schools which have not yet come into
I could be allowed time to think of the the community home system. There are
answer. 700 in hostels. I have no details of the
remaining 4,000, but I am sure this is a
Chairman. miscellaneous category.
99. Yes. If I can pursue paragraph Mr. Sainsbury.
9, what about the children who are not
in local authority establishments? You 102. Are these hostels local authority
say that 93,000 children were in the hostels? Some hostels are community
care of local authorities on 31st March, homes, but the figure of 700 I men-
1973, of whom 33,500 were accommo- tioned relates to hostels other than local
dated in the establishments you list authority community homes. I assume
above. Do the local authorities super- these are run by voluntary organisations.
vise the 59,000 children who are not in
residential care of one form or another? Chairman.
^The local authorities supeiwise them 103. Not all the children who ê in
through their social workers when they private homes are necessarily children
are in accommodation of various kinds. who are in trouble, are they? They are
I did foresee this question. I hope not necessarily children who come with-
I have a note of where they actually in the scope of the Act, but you and the
are. Where a child is boarded out it local authoritieii would nevertheless have

9|,5
6 February, 1974.] Mr. J. W. STACPOOLE, [Continued,
this information. They live in private are those whose needs cannot be met in
accommodation of some kind or perhaps a home where they would go out to
in children’s homes, but they are not school.
necessarily children in trouble?
Certainly. 111. But there was recently a case
where an eight-year-old girl was the
104. I think you did say that you did subject of special arrangements of Ais
not have any specific policy as to kind, so it can happen that quite young
whether the two types should be mixed, children require &s special type of
but I suppose you have some policy treatment? ^Yes, but, broadly speak-
depending on the age of the child? ing, the population of community homes
(Mr. Morris.) When you speak of which cater for full residential care
“mixing” are you speaking of mixing twenty-four hours a day every day of
delinquents with non-delinquents? the year consists mainly of children
105. I am talking of mixing children between the ages of twelve and sixteen
who come within the scope of the Child- or seventeen.
ren and Young Persons Act? Ând 112. How many of those are in the
children received into care under the minority you mention? think I had
Children’s Act, 1948? better let your Clerk have the exact
106. Yes? ^There is no policy in figure.
relation to mixing, but there is a policy 113. To finish up paragraph 11, what
which local authorities do their best to is the period of time involved in the
fulfil, namely, that children should be assessment centre set-up? What would
plac^ in establishments or in forms of be the average stay there? (Mr.
care best suited to their needs. When Stacpoole.) I could guess at it, but it
this is carried out it results in children would be more helpful if I gave you the
of a similar type being together. exact information later on.
107. This is controlled by the avail-
ability of accommodation, is it not? 114. Do you have any kind of follow-
Partly, but I would not go as far as to up of the children who have been
say it is controlled solely by that; it is through the assessment centres and then
controlled by the needs of the children. into care of one form or another? Do
you know what happens after a child
108. There must be occasions when leaves the care situation? ^We know
the needs of the children demand a much too little. I am not sure about
certain solution which is not available any research being done into this, but
because there are no places available at the moment we have no regular
and you receive telephone calls from monitoring.
people saying, “ Where can we put these
children”? ^Ycs, but it is not the 115. You do not have a unit in the
same as mixing children by virtue of Department dealing with this, do you?
some deliberate policy. Dr. Mason is not involved in any follow-
up? (Dr. Mason.) I do not think
109. You say that a minority of there are any projects specially devoted
children in care have needs for care and to this. All die resources have really
control or observation and assessment been devoted towards getting the
which cannot be met in the way you machinery in action, but we are planning
describe. What are the ages of the to appoint a research officer to be part of
cWldren you mention which need the a small steering committee in the
kind of care and control you mention? Department to look at the youth treat-
(Mr. Russell) Normally they would ment centre which really represents the
be aged twelve and upwards with some most difficult minority. We will begin
under that age. to monitor what happens to the appli-
110. There have been cases involving cations which are accepted to see what
younger children? ^We foimd a boy other forms of care they go into and
of six the otiier day in secure accom- to link this with research in die three
modation. It was undoubtedly neces- special boys’ units and one or two
sary he should be there, but this is highly intensive care units in some community
exceptional. The children referred to homes.


116. When do you hope to get this involved? Can we hear about the extent
moving? 1 think the steering com- to which the Department is involved in
mittee meets next week and we are this work? 1 can give an answer to
hoping to appoint somebody at the con- that fairly quickly. First of all, the
clusion of the meeting. regional planning committees have pro-
fessional advisers who have themselves
117. Will it have proper resources in recently formed a group for the pur-
terms of money and staff to do the job poses of exchanging ideas. They held
properly, or is it rather a pious hope? their first meeting towards the end of
My administrative colleagues must last year. Secondly, there is no stand-
answer that. (Mr. Stacpoole.) I do not ing arrangement for gathering repre-
think approval has so far been secured sentatives of the regional planning
for funds for this purpose, but I am not committies to make a review of where
certain. they have all got to, but we mention at
118. I am sure you would know? the end of paragraph 18 that we are
No, I would not. Mr. Russell may or proposing to arrange such a meeting this
may not know about it, but we can dis- year to discuss their experience to date
cover whether it has or has not. and current outstanding problems.
Chairman.] That brings us to a suit-
Mr. Sainsbury. able place at which to break off. We
hope to dispose of this document in one
119. Could we hear about the question more meeting without asking you to
of co-ordinating reviews of the results return again. Perhaps you would let us
of regional planning committees and have in due course the various matters
whether you have any standing confer- we have asked for. We are grateful for
ence of any specialists who are your attendance.
Printed in England by Her Majesty’s Stationery Office at St Stephen’s Parliamentary Press

396192 Dd 251821 K9 3/74
ISBN 0 10 276374 7


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877

Wednesday 6th February, 1974

Children and Yonng Persons Act 1969

Mr. J. W. Stacpoole, Mr. M. G. Russell, C.B.E., Mr. E. C. Morris and

Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

WEDNESDAY, 6TH FEBRUARY, 1974.

Mrs. Ren^ Short, in the Chair

Mr. Daniel Awdry. Mr. David Reed.

Joint Memorandnm by the Department of Health and Social Secnrity and

THE CHILDREN AND YOUNG PERSONS ACT 1969

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

6 February, 1974.] [Continued.

II. THE COMMUNITY HOME SYSTEM

4. The establishment of the community home system (Sections 35-50) is a

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

6 February, 1974.] {Continued,

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

6 February, 1974.] [Continued.

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

6 February, 1974.] [Continued.

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

6 February, 1974.] [Continued.

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

6 February, 1974.] [Continued.

22. It is estimated that in 1973-74 local authority revenue exp

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

6 February, 1974.] [Continued.

25. Finance Local authorities are responsible for expenditure on

IV YOUTH TREATMENT CENTRES

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

6 February, 1974.] [Continued.

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

Letter to the Employment and Social Services Sub-Committee

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

6 February, 1974.] [Continued.

Name of Home Location Voluntary Organisation

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

6 February, 1974.] {Continued.

FORMER REGISTERED VOLUNTARY HOMES

Name of Home Location Voluntary Organisation

FORMER APPROVED SCHOOLS

REGISTERED VOLUNTARY HOMES WHICH HAVE NOT BECOME COMMUNITY HOMES

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

6 February» 1974.] [Continued.

FORMER REGISTERED VOLUNTARY HOMES

Name of Home Location Voluntary Organisation

Controlled Community Home

Assisted Community Homes

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

6 February, 1974.] [Continued.

Name of Home Location Voluntary Organisation

FORMER REGISTERED VOLUNTARY HOMES

House of Commons Parliamentary Papers Online.

6 February, 1974.] [Continued.

Name of Home Location Voluntary Organisation

FORMER APPROVED SCHOOLS