IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF PHILADELPHIA COUNTY FIRST JUDICIAL DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA CIVIL TRIAL DIVISION EDWARD O'DONNELL 7 2 JULY TERM, 1982 -vs~ t ‘THE CELOTEX CORPORATION, et al: MO. 1619 May 16, 1989 Courtroom 910, One East Penn Square Building Philadelphia, Pennsylvania BEFORE: THE HONORABLE LEVAN GORDON, 1. (and a Jury, of 11.) APPEARANCES: SANDY L.V. BYRQ, ESQUIRE. Counsel for the Plaintiff ‘THOMAS P. HANNA, ESQUIRE and NATHAN A, SCHACHTMAN, ESQUIRE Counsel for Eibreboard, Owens-Illinois and Pittsburgh Corning ‘ALBERT JORN SWITE, JR., ESQUIRE Counsel for the Celotex Corporation EDWARD B. MILLER, ESQUIRE Counsel for Qwens-Corning Fiberglas (Cont'd...){Court reconvened.) (A Jury .of 11 present in the courtroom.) MR, SCHACHTMAN: Your Honor, at this time the defendants , Owens-Illinoiq, Pittsburgh Corning Corporation and Fibreboard call to the stand Dr. William Wei. ‘THE COURT CRIER: Place your right hand on the Bible. State your full name, and spell your last name, for the record, pleas THE WITMESS: William Weiss, W-e-: (WILLIAM WEISS, M.D., sworn.) DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: 0 Good morning, Dr. Weiss. . a Good morning. 0 Dr. Weiss, I would ask that you keep your voice up so that the members of the Jury can hear you. a Yer MR. SCHACHTMAN, And I wquld like to begin byDr. Weiss ~ Direct 4 having marked as an exhikit the following document. (A document marked D-5 far identification.) BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: 9 Dx. Weiss, let me begin by asking you, are you a licensed physician in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania? Yes. And what is your age? I'm 69, going on 70. How long have you been practicing medicine? Since I graduated in 1944. ep Pr DP Pr © PY Doctor, have over the years of -- have you been licensed continuously through that period? a Yes. o And what field of medicine have you concentrated your attentions in? . In pulmonary @isease and epideniolosy. Are you an epidemiologist? Yes. Have you published works in the field of epidemtology? Yes. ore rer Have you published works in the field of epidemiologyDr. Weiss - Direct 5 with special reference to asbestos? x Yea. @ Ané@ have you done r arch on the relationship between asbestos and lung cancer? a Yes. a Have you actually done a survey where you are collecting original data on people who have asbestos exposure to see what kind of health effects they have, if any? x Yeu, I have. a And have these reasarch and publications been published in the medical literatura? a Yer a And have: they been published in peer review periodicals? a Yes. 7 o Could you explain, for the members of the Jury, what peer review is all about. =, : a Peer review is a process that the editor of a journal goes into wher a manuscript is submitted to him for publication. And the editor ueually dgesn't have enough knowledge to evaluate every specific kind of research, 80 he or she picks out, usually, at least two experts in the same field| of research, and sends a copy of the manuscript to each expert for an opinion as to whether it ought to be published, whetherDr. Weise ~ Direct 6 4t ought to be published with revision or whether it ought to be rejected. . ‘The experts then return 4 critique of the manuscript to the editor, and the editor makes up his mind. If he's got two peer reviewers that eay, Publish, then he ordinarily will publish it, unless it's in # Journal which is very popular and gets 60 many ranuscripts submitted to it that they can't possibly addept more than a smaller percentage of the manuscripts, And then the editor has to make a decision about whether the material is relevant to the type of audience they are trying to reach. Por example, The New England Journal of Medicine rejects 90 percent of the manuscripts submitted. That doesn't mean those rejections are bad. ft simply means some of them are bad, but others are rejected because they don't fit the ideas of the editor as to what he wants to publish. 0 Dr. Weiss, is that peer review process a fairly grueling Process to go through? FY Yes, it is, : : I've -- sistant editor of the Archives of Environmental Health, I remember one set of two manuscripts that were submitted to a national journal that went through 17 peer reviews before the editor could make a decision, whichDr. Weiss - Direct 7 is kind of ridiculous. o Dr, Weiss, how many articles have you published in the peer review literature? a Over 200. o And can you estimate for us of those 200 articles, how many dealt with epidemiology? a Oh, at least 50, o Fifty articles? a Yes. o And of those 50 articles, how many dealt with the epidemiology of asbestos? a I have, I think it's eight articles now on asbestos disease. MR. SCHACHTMAN, ‘Your Honor, may I show Exhibit D-S that was marked? THE COURT: Show it to the witness? MR, SCRACHTHAM: Yes. BY MR, SCHACETHAN: ° Dr. Weiss, ie what has been marked as Defendant's Exhibit 5-05 a correct copy of your curriculum vitae? a Yes. hoes aad o Is that an indication of your professional accomplishments? a Yes.Dr. Weiss ~ Direct | 8 8 Have you been in a position where you had to sit in i Judgment of other people's articles submitted for the medical literature? t oy a Yes. Ccncer! is 0 And Aid that ‘include the Archives of Environmental Health?) ry Yes. I was on the editorial board for 1¢ years; and in that function, I received articles for review, as well as having an annual meeting in Chicago. In addition, I've been a manuscript peer reviewer for a dozen national journals other than that. 0 What are some of the other journals for which you have Served as peer reviewer? . a X thought I had it listed here, but I don't. They are the American Journal of Respiratory Disease, Chest, Journal of the American Medical Association, Archives of Internal Medicine, Annalsof Internal Medicine, Radiology, The Journal of the National Cancer Institute. That's about half of them. I, offhand, can't think of the other half. . o Dr. Weiss, how did you become to be a member of the editorial board of the Axchives of Environmental Health? a Dr. Katherine Sturgis waq the chief editor. she became the 4ditor in 1960; and in 1968, she appointed me to the editorial board.Dr. Weiss ~ Direct 9 Did you know Dr. gturgis? Very well. Were you fond of her? er er © Very fond of her, both ag @ person, as a physician caring for patients and as a researcher, We did lot of work together. 8 Can you describe the research that you did with Dr. Sturgis? a Yes. Most of it had to do with a large epidemiological study of screening for lung cancer, which she started in December 1951 called the Philadelphia Pulmonary Neoplasm Research Project. 6 Let me interrupt you for a moment. What is neoplasn ? a ‘That's just another word for cancer. And her reason for using neoplasm was that since we were engaged in doing 4 screening of 6,000 older Philadelphia men every six months, she was afraid at the time when she named the project that {¢ she used “cancer,* that would be frightening to a lot of people, which it was in those days and still is. so she used the term “neoplasm” instead of “cancer.” ‘That was a project organized to enroll 6,000Dr. Weiss - Direct 10 men, age 45 and over in Philadelphia to be screened with a chest x-ray and a questionnaire on respiratory symptoms and smoking habits every six months for ten years. It took four years to accumulate the 6,000 men, to get them enrolled. wobod e And each man was followed for ten years. 80 the project ended in 1964. ats . And then we spent another 17 years analyzing the results. e Doctor, what was your title and responsibility for that project? a I was the half time director of the project. 0 Dr. Weiss, over your career, have you taught? a Yes. o Have you taught epidemiology? a Yes. o Have you taught akout the principles of looking at studies and determining whether they are good or bad studies? x Yes. 2 a Have you taught epidemiology with respect to asbestos? a Yes. o Where have you taught? » Well, I have taught -- just specifically epidemiology?Dr. Wedes' - Direct % il a Let's start with that and go on to the other subjects. x Well, epidemislogy, I started teaching in 1965 at Hahnemann University, And I retired from Hahnemann in 1964. I taught epidemiology for another year or two there, and I still teach epidemiology at Temple University. 6 Have you taught other subjects besides epidemiology? » Yes. I've taught pulmonary disease and biostatistics. 9 Doctor, is Board certification usually required for people who teach? Usually is today. Are you Board certified? No. ere PF How is it that you got tq be a teacher without being Board certified? x Well, I taught from -- pulmonary disease from 1950 on. And I've taught first at the Medical College of Pennsylvania and the graduate school of medicine at the University of Pennsylvania until 1966. . And then I -- and during .that time, I rose to associate prof. OTe In 1966, I changed to Hahnemann. And in 1970, X was promoted to full professor.Dr. Weiss - Direct 12 to waive it. 80 they waived it, in my case. 0 Had you ever attempted tq be certified? a Yes. 9 And were you successful? _ A No. 6 Can you explain? a Well, I was -- 1 passed the written examination in 1953, but failed the oral examination twice thereafter, which was no big surprise to me. Because, in those days, you had to be certified in general internal medicine; and I only had one year of training in internal medicine and then went into pulmonary isease. By the time I took the examination, I had been doing just pulmonary disease for five years; and I was busy with research. I had to decide whether I was going to take two years off from my regearch and study all the other subspecialties in internal medicine or continue with the research| So I decided to continue with the research. o Has research and writing been the prime focus of your career? h That and clinical pulmonary disease, yes. MR. SCHACHTMAN:; Your Honor, may I approach the witness to get the c.v.?Dr. Weiss - Direct 13 THE COURT: Yea. BY MR, SCHACHTMAN: o Thank you, Doetor. Doctor, on the basis of your training and experience in épidemiology and clinical aspects of lung dit have you been selected tq be a qohsultant .to any local industries in the area? x ‘Yes. 9 Can you explain the roles you have served to these local industries? A Well, it's varied somewhat with the industry. I was a consultant to three small asbestos companies in this area, only for the purpose of doing the annual surveillance of the asbeatos workers, as required by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. o What is the Occupational Safety and Health Administration? a That's a Federal organization, bureau, in a sense, that puts out regulations on occupational safety and health. 6 surveillance programs? They get their advice from the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health, which is one of the national institutes of health,br. Weiss - Direct ua et “And then, based on that advice and hearings and #0 oh, they make decisions about what the regulations should be. ; ry And 41d you ~= what exactly did you do for these local asbestos companies? » Well, until I stopped doing it in the middle 80's, the requirement was that each asbestos worker get a chest x-ray, breathing teat and answer questionnaires on symptoms, smoking habits and occupational history. ‘That was the limit of the requirement. And I arranged for these companies to have the breathing tests or spirograms, as they are called, and the chest x-rays done on a mobile van by a company in that business that did good work. that wasn't spelled out hy the regulations; and would have the questionnaires filled in by a clerk who asked the questions of each employes. Then I would review the questionnaires, the chest x-ray, which I read myself, and the spirograms, and come to @ decision without seqing the individual employee as to whether there was anything of any importance that needed any medical attention.Dr. Weiss ~ Direct: 15 Or if T'was suspicious that there might be, and, if 20, then I would see the employee, explain the problem, as I saw it, and examine the individual's chest. + And Af they neqded medical attention, I would refer then to ¢héir private physician. o Doctor, are the raméd of the companies that you did this work for confidential? ry No. o What are some of the companies you performed screening for? A Nicolet, Amatex and Pacor. a Have you -~ a Excuse me. For those that I didn't see, they got a written report) and a report went to their doctor. o Are any of those companigs still operating in the area? a Well, I haven't kept up in the last few years. I have heard that Nicolet is in bankrtupey. MR. BYRD: Objection. THR COURT: Sugtained. Disregard that remark, ladies and gentlemen of the Jury. BY MR, SCHACHTMAN: o Other than those companies, are there any other companiesDr. Weiss ~ Direct 16 not asbestos companies, for which you have done Occupational Safety and Health Adminiatration screenings for? Yes. And what are those companies? Mobil O11 and Rohm and Haas Company. Doctor, have you ever bean a "B" Reader? Yes. And when were you.a "B" Reader? isel. ep rer OP Pr Oe And do you have tq be recertified from 19817 . Yes. They @arted that in 1986. And that required making a trip to Morgantown, Weat Virginia, and I wasn't going to do that. o Dr. Weiss, over your career, have you received any awards for your teaching or publications? Py Yes. 9 And would you share with the members of the Jury and the Court what are some, to you, the more significant awards you have received? A Well, the first one was a prize as a senior in medical school for some research that I did while I was a student in the second, third and fourth years. Then, in 1974, . received the Merit andDr. Weiss - Direct 17 Authorship Award from the American Occupational Medical Association for what they considered was the best paper in occupational medicine of the year in 1973. I also got the same kindof award from them in -- T think it was 1986 or 1985. And in 1978, the Philadelphia Division of the American Cancer Society gave Dr, Sturgis and myself their annual scientific award. o Have you been active or held any positions in the American Cancer society? x Yes. I was on the baard of dixectors six years until @ couple of years ago; and then you have to rotate off by their by-laws. And since 1982, I have been chairman of the Cancer Prevention Study Number Two for the Delaware Valley, whioh {4s part of a large cohort study of over a million people that the American Cancer Society has carried on. It's the second one. They started the first one in 1989, 00" ° Has that beén published recentiy$ ve, a ‘There have been several publications since the data began to be collected in 1982." The data collection has coveredDr. Weiss - Direct 18 4 period of six years. 60 the last collection was 1988, and there will be # lot of papers ‘coming out from the national office on this study. | Q Dr. Weiss, we've heard ahout some professional societies from some of the other physicians already. Have you held any positiqns, offices or positions of responibility in any medical societies? RS Yeu. I was president of the Lanaeck Society. That's the local chest dis society in Philadelphia, I think in 1970, And then I was president of the Philadelphia Occupational Medical Association for two years -- I forget what the years were. It's there. I think around 1980. And f've been an the board of directors of the Philadelphia County Medical Society. And I'm editor of the monthly journal of the Philadelphia County Medical Society for the past 13 years. a Have you written editoriais from that position? x Yes. Q Dr. Weiss, have you been active in any community services in which you have been able to uge your experience and your learning? ErDr. Weiss - Direct 19 Ey Yes. As a volunteer for the American Cancer Society) and, for a number of years, I was an adviser to the Philadelphia Health Department in establishing a list of toxic substances for control by Philadelphia. I'm conaultant to the Philadelphia Board of Education on Asbestos; several other things. onal career 0 Dr. Weiss, over the course of your prof and your involvement with epidemiology, the epidemiology of asbestos in particular, have you become familiar with the historical literature on asbestos and asbestos-related diseases? a Yer o Could you describe that process, how you became familiar with it? a Well, when I got into pulmonary disease, I began to collect a file of reprints of papers that came to my attention that I considered of importance on various subjects in pulmonary disease on a rqutine basis. And then, during the course of research, I would look up a relevant medical literature. And in 1978, I .was approached by counsel for Johna-Manville; and, as a result, went back into the historical literature to determine what the state of the art was, primarilyDr. Weiss - Direct 20 till 1964. o Doctor, in the course of your research in the Philadelphia, Pulmonary Neoplasm study with Dr. Sturgis, did you ever have oceasion to look there, back in the 1960's, on the relationship of asbestos and lung cancer? ‘MR, BYRD: Objection. THE COURT: What basis? MR. BYRQ: Leading. THE COURT: Suatained. MR, SCHACHTMAN, I'11 rephrase the question, Your Honor. BY MR, SCHACHTMAN: a Dr. Weiss, before the 1980's, did you, yourself -~ let me rephrase the question this way: Back in the 1960's, in your publications, 4id you ever comment on asbestos? a Yes. MR. BYRD: Sama objection. THE COURT: Suatained, Strike the answer. Disregard the answer; ang late. BY MR. acuacerbets ; o When in the first time in your publishing that you ever had occasion to mention asbestos?Dr. Weiss - Direct a1 A 1961. “ 9 And what context 41d you mention asbestos in 19617 a Dr. Sturgis and I published a paper on lung cancer data from the project. And out of -- a Don't tell us the conclugions. Just tell us the occasions: when you did comment on it. ry The paper dealt with lung cancer. And we had, I think at that time, over 100 cat of lung cancer in these 6,000 men, two of whom also had asbestosis. And, just in passing in the discussion of that paper, we simply mentioned that, that it might be of some interest. o Dr. Weiss, just yes or nq. Did you ever mention it? Yes or no? Did you ever mention it later in publications that came out of that research? * MR. BYRD: Objection. THE COURT: Suatained. ‘Rephr: ‘yéur qnestion. BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: o Dr. Weiss, did you ever after the 1961 publication, in the context of that project, mention asbestos? h Yea. . i she and I publighed two more papers,Dr. Weiss ~ Direct 22 early in 1964. We mentioned it again in a brief sentence. In December 1964, in the Journal of the American Medical Association, we came out with the statement that we considered at that time that the association between asbestos and lung cancer had been established based on, primarily, the report of Selikoff, which appeared in the same journal early in 1964. MR. SCHACHTMAN, Your Honor, at this time I would ask the Court to rule that Dr. Weiss is an expert --| THE COURT: Offer him first. ‘MR. SCHACHTMAN: I would like to say what I am offering him for. =, ‘THE COURT: You asked the Court to rul MR. SCHACHTMAN:, I'm offering him for -- an expert in the field of epidemiology with special reference to knowledgeable about the historical developments about the knowledge of asbestoa and when different diseases were recognized to be related to asbestos. “maB COURT: Any quéstiong on qualifications? MR. BYRD: Your ‘Honor, with the Court's ibestos, and someone who is professionally permission, I would resexve my questions on qualifications on cross-examination. .Dr. Weies - Cross 23 THE COURT: It may be too late. He's going to be qualified or not. 80 if you have questions on qualifications, you should ask them now. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR, BYRD: o Doctor, you told us earlier that you were not Board certified in any discipling. © i. ‘ a That's correct. a Q And you did, however, take a reaidency in a number of subspecialties, did you not? =. we wise, a Yes. eee ° Did you, in fact, Dector, commence a residency in pathology? A Yes. I took that for the purpose af background, I was not going to specialize in pathology. 0 How long is a residency in pathology? A Well, you can take it as.long as you want. They're usually on a year-to-year basis. At the time I took mine at the University of Pennsylvania, it was at the end of World War II; and we were on a nine-month schedule. 80, in my case, it was a nine-monthDr. Weiss - Cross 24 residency. . Q Haven't you previously testified that a residency in pathology, during the time of your training was three years in duration? + a If you want to specialise in pathology, it would be three years, yes. : : 8 However, you droppéd out after dre year? ~ MR, SCHACHTMAN, Objectign to the characterization THE COURT: fsuatained, BY MR, BYRD: o You discontinued the residency after one year; is that correct? a I only intended to take it for nine months as a background for specializing in clinical medicine. 0 Doctor, 414 you commence a residency in internal medicine? h Yes. Q Did you conclude that reaidency? a I had a one-year residency. That's the way they ran. ‘The American Board of Internal Medicine required two years minimum, 9 Did you conclude the residency, Doctor? PY I concluded my one-year residency in internal medicine. a Are you Board eligible in internal medicine?Dr. Wales ~ Cross as a I became Board eligible in 1963 under certain regulations in which, if you only had ohe year of training in internal medicine and a year in a.eubspecialty like pulmonary disease, then you had to have two additional years of practice of internal medicine to satisfy the three-year requirement followed by another two years of praétice; and then you could take the examination. Qo At the time, Doctor, that you discontinued your residency in internal medicine, you had not concluded the three-year requirement, had you? a That's correct. 0 And at that time you were not eligible to sit for the Boards; is that correct? ‘That's correct. Have you sat for the Boards in internal medicine? Yes. 1 said that on direct. And you are Board certified in internal medicine? No. I said that on direct. 7 Did you commence a residency in pulmonary medicine? Yes. pid you conclude it? Yes. eo Pr er e© ee Pr OP And did you conclude it -~ strike that.26 In what year did you commence your residency in pulmonary medicine? 1948, ‘The residency was only one year. And did you finish at that time? Yes. When were the Boards in pulmonary di: created? rer ee I'm not sure. Sometime after I took the examination in internal medicine, Sometime later. I don't know when they tablished it. How much later? T can't tell you. | Did you sit for the Boards? o a o a No, aoe A “y In order to sit for the @xamination in pulmonary disease, you had to p. the general examination in internal medicine first. o 80 it's fair to say you are not Board certified in pulmonary medicine? a That's correct. 9 Doctor, you told Mr. Schachtman that you were -- that you were at one time a “R" Reader? a Yes. o Are you now?Dr. Weiss - Cross a7 a Ro. last that resulted in your becoming a "B" Reader? a ‘The course? e Well, was there a course offered? a ‘There was a two-day coutge offered by the American College of Radiology. o and is de fair to say, with fespect to becoming a "B* Reader, that if you ait for this course, you automatically becone an “A" Reader? ‘ a That's correct, It's a meaningless term. 0 And how long is the courge, again?. I'm sorry? a ‘Two days. o And what happens in those two days of training? A There is extensive discugsion of the international labor organization classification of chest x-rays for diseases of the lung. o Ye it an tempt ta teach the physicians who ait how to classify, as opposed to interpret x-rays? A Yer 6 t's simply a scheme so that one physician can look at a chart prepared by another and know what he has determined without speaking Finnish, if the guy 1s from that country orDr. Weiss - cross 28 German, if he's from Germany? a Yer “" he classification is a gemi-quantitative @stimate of the type of dust disease and the extent of it. a Now, that doesn't deal exclusively with asbestos-related disease, does it? . No. Tt includes any dust disease of the lung. And what are the various dust di: ? The other important one would be silicosis. That's different from coal miner's disease? The x-ray picture is about the same. > PrP Per ee So do these address the three different kinds, the three Aifferent dust diseases? . THE COURT: Counsel, I dan't mean to interrupt you, but is this relevant on qualifications? MR. BCHACHTMAN, No, THE COURT: Jugt a minute, MR. BYRQ: Well, let me ask one other question there; and I'll move on. | THE COURT: All right. BY MR. BYRD: 0 Doctor, at the conclusion of your course, how long 1s the examination?Dr, Weiss - Cross 29 Five and a half hours. ‘And if you pai + You become a "B" Reader? Yes. ee . orp ee And I believe “a score of 50 is sufficient for passing: isn't that right? a a Fifty out of 100? ry x : a It's a very complicated aystem of grading, though. ° Doctor, you indicated to.Mr. Schachtman that you're an epidemiologist? a Yes. o Do you have a post graduate degree in epidemiology? a No. When I started in epidemiology, there were no post graduate degrees in epidemiology. Do you have a graduate degree in epidemiology? No. Do you have an undergraduate degree in epidemiology? No. ‘There is no quch thing. Did you take a course in epidemiolagy? rere Pro I took a short course in 1965 at the University ofDr, Weiss - Cross 8 30 Wisconsin. 9 How long was that course? a ‘That was three weeks, covered epidemiology and biostatistics. o I'm sorry. I didn't hear the last comment. a It was three weeka, and it covered epidemiology for one half the course and biostatistics for the other half. Doctor, what is oncology? That's the specialty devoted to cancer. Ara you Board certified in oncology? Are you Board certified in radiology? orp er ew Pe § You told Mr. Schachtman gn direct that you've been employed by three asbestos companies: Nicolet, Amatex and Pacor ~~ MR, SCHACHIMAN, Objectign, He didn't say he was employed. THE COURT: Correct. He.didn't say he was employed. Sustained. BY MR. BYRD: o Have you ever told anyone that you have been praviously employed by three asbestos companies?Dr. Weiss - Cross a a I don't remember using the term "employed." I was @ consultant to them. Did they pay you? Yes. Q a o Pay you a salary? ry Not a salary. 0 Pay you on some kind of regular interval? n They paid me once a year, because the surveillance was only done once a year; and I billed them according to an hourly fee. 9 You got paid once a year at an hourly rate? A Yes. ‘That's right. a And that's the case for all three companies? a Yes. MR. BYRD: No further questions, MR. SCHACHTMAN:, Your Honor, just a few brief questions. REDIARCT EXAMINATION BY MR, SCHACHTMAN: | Bpoy ke atisg gt efooit o br. Weias, can you be Board certified in pulmonary disease without first being Boarded in internal medicine?p Dr. Weiss - Redirect 7 32 MR. BYRD: Objection. Cavered. THE COURT: Suatained. MR. SCHACHTMAN;, Your Honor, I think that -- THE COURT: Sustained. MR. SCHACHTMAN; 1'11 rephr BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: o Let me ask you, then, abqut the ILO scheme. There axe different clasgifications that you might give an x-ray? h Yes. a Are some normal classes?, a Yes. MR. BYRD: Objqction. Inrelevant, unless he's going to read x-rays. THE COURT: Suatained. MR. SCHACHTMAN: Well, he covered it. 1 don't know why he asked those questions. THE COURT: Well, he asked them because you asked him whether he was a "B" Reader or not. You opened the door. BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: e Doctor, as a “BY Reader, have you had to classify x-rays as normal or abnormal? .Dr. Weiss - redirect 33 MR. BYR: Objection. THE COURT: Sugtained, again, I'm not sure of the relevance on qualifications. MR, SCHACHTMAN: Okay. 1I'11 take it up later. BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: 0 Doctor, on epidemiology, have you taught people who are studying for graduate degrees in epidemiology? a No. I've taught medical students for 20 years and students getting a Master's degree in industrial hygiene. 0 ‘That's at Temple? a Yes. Q And have you taught them the principles of epidemiology? MR. BYRQ: Objection. ‘THE COURT: What basis? THE WITNESS: Yes. MR, BYRD: It's a little.late. He's answered. But it was leading. THE COURT: Suatained, BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: : 0 Doctor, what did you teach these medical students and students in industrial hygiene about epidemiology?Dr. Weiss - Redirect 34 a I taught them the basic fundamentals, For medical students, we were limited to an eight-hour course. For the Master's degree students, I would give them 30 hours. o Have you attended any conferences on epidemiology? cy Yes. o Have you spoken at such conferences? a Not specifically conferences devoted entirely to epidemiolog I've given lectures on specific epidemiologic topics in various places concerning my regearch. MR. SCHACHTMAN: Your Honor, at this time I would renew my offer of Or. Weiss as anexpert in epidemiology with special reference to asbestos and with special reference to the historical aspects of changing knowledge about asbestos, THE COURT: Any objection? THE COURT: All right. The Court findg that Dr. Weiss is qualified to testify as an expert in the area of epidemiology with a special knowledge of asbestos, and as a person “with some knowledge of the history with reference to asbestos. ‘If I didn't say that right, as represented byDr. Weiss - Redirect a3 counsel. : a MR, SCHACHTMAN: I think we are on the same wavelength. CONTINUED REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR, SCHACHTMAN: . 8 Dr. Weiss, let me take you back to the Philadelphia Pulmonary Neoplasm Research Project. Can you now explain, in a little more detail, what you and Dr. Sturgis were saying in 19647 MR. BYRD: Objection. ‘TRE COURT: why? MR. BYRD: He can't tell .us what Dr. Sturgis was saying, He can tell us what he was saying. BY MR, SCHACHTMAN: 0 Te there a published article -- BY MR, SCHACHTMAN: Q pr. Weiss, in the article which y8u published, which came out of that pulmonary project in 1964, can you explain to the members of the Jury what yout conclusion was or what youwere saying in the article at that time? a BY MR, er PP Dr. Weiss - Redirect 36 Well, the article was authored by Dr. sturgis and myself. MR. BYRD: Objection, Unresponsive. THE COURT: Overruled. ‘MR. BYRD: He didn't ask him who it was authored! ‘THE WITNESS: And we werg -~ TRE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: And we were dealing with the results of study of these 6,000 men with respect to lung cancer and its major cause, cigarette smoking. And in the course of discussing the -- beyond the major cause, amoking, we did mention that we had two cases of asbestosis and lung cancer. And we were convinced by that time that there’was an association between asbestos and lung cancer from our knowledge of the literature. SCHACHTMAN: Doctor, you worked with Dr. Sturgis? Yeah, very closely. Was she a concerned physician? Very much so. 7 Was she concerned about her patients?Dr. Weiss ~ Redirect 7 a Yes. o Did you hear her speak at professional society meetings? a Numerous times, o And you worked closely with her as a colleague? a Yes. BEE eeeEEE eet o Before 1959 did’ you kiow Dr. dturgis to speak out about the hasards of asbestos? _ See MR. BYRD: “Objection. °~: ‘THE COURT: Ssuatained. It's irrelevant. Hi MR. SCHACHTMAN: Your Honor, he had the opportunity to hear her. . RE COURT: still, it's {rrelevant. MR. SCHACHIMAN, 1111 move on. BY MR. SCHACHIMAN: i ° Doctor, did you become involved in 1959 with any perceived problem with the use of estos here in Philadelphia? a Yes. : : o Can you explain that to the members of the Jury. MR, BYRD: Your Honor, I'm going to object. May I see the Court at side bar? THE COURT: Sure.Dr. Weiss - Redirect 38 (In-chambers discussion held off the record.) BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: 0 Dr. Weiss, we are going to come back to 1969. We ate going - back in history to 1938. MR. BCHACHTMAN, And at this time, Your Honor, I would Line to hve marked as an exhibit a copy of « study. (A document marked D-6 for identification.) BY MR, SCHACHTMAN; : 8 Dr. Weiss, I've handed you -- Mrs. Thompson, rather, has handed you what has been marked D-6. Are you familiar with that document? h Yes. o Can you identify it for us? ry It was a 193@ report by Qreessen. o Who was Dr. Dreessen? ry He was an assistant surgeon in the -- on the health service. ° United States Public Health Service? a Yes.Dr. Weiss ~ Redirect 39 9 And who published this study? a This was published by the Public Health service in Public Health Bulletin Mmber 241, a Are you familiar with this document before I've shown it to you? a Yes. Qo Are you familiar with ita conclusion? a Yes. o Could you describe, for the members of the Jury, whether there is any mention of cancer in this document? a There isn't any. o Is there any mention of asbestosis in the document? a Yes. o Can you explain what Dr. Dreessen's conclusions were with respect to the people he was studying? A Dreessen and his qolleagyes did a cross sectional survey of textile factory workers in the United states. And they also -- they 4id this by chest x-ray and I think physical examinations, too. They had some information ondust counts. And in those days, there was total dust counts in terms of a million parts per cubic foot. And in relating the frequency of asbestosis toDr. Weil . 40 the dust count concentrations, they concluded that at least tentatively that if the exposure was to 1 than five milfion particles per cubic foot, then there was no risk of asbestosis. o Doctor, in the higtory of industrial hygienic medicine, was that conclusion at that time something that was given wide oredibility? A Yes. 0 Doctor, let me show you the next “document. ¢ (A document marked D-7 fox identification.) BY MR, SCHACHTMAN: = ‘ 0 Doctor, this ‘wilt be D7, : ‘MR. SCHACHTMAN: And, for the record, it was previously marked sturgia 39-4. BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: 9 Doctor, have you geen this article before? a Yes. 0 Could you identify it for us? a It's a shorter version, really, of this big report published the next year. . Qo Where was it published? | h It was published in the American Journal of Public HealthDr. Weiss - Redirect 41 in 1939. o Doctor, in this vers: bn af Dr. Dreessen's study, did he repeat his conclusions that he had previously published the year before in the Public Health Service Bulletin? » Yes. 7 o And cah you tell us how -- did he phrase it as a tentative donclusion or a ron-tentative conclusion the next year? =? a He didn't use the term "tentative" this time. o Can you tell the members of the Jury exactly what his conclusion was in 1939? a Well, he has a series of eight conclusions. o With respect to the threshhold limit. M His seventh conclusion ig, "It appears as if asbestos dust concentrations in the air breathed are kept below five million particles per cubic foot, new cases of mbestosis will not appear." a Will not? a Will not appear. (Documents marked D-8, D=8-A, D-8-B, D-8-C, De8-D, D-8-E, D-8-F, D-8-G, for identification.)Dr. Weiss ~ “Redirect 42 BY MR, SCHACHTMAN: o Dr. Weiss, Mrs. Thompson has just handed you a series of articles, which we've marked as exhibits. Are you familiar with thase articles? A Yes, I've seen than. 0 Can you identify them for us? a They are a list of threshhold limit values established by the American Conference of Govérnmental Industrial Hygienists starting in 1950 and going up to 1959, These ware published in the Archives of Industrial Hygiene and Qocupational Medicine. Q Do you know when the Amexican Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists first recommended a threshhold limit value for asbestos? h I believe it was 1946. o Is asbestos the only subatance for which they recommend a limit? ry Ro. The recommend limits for many other substances. The list gets bigger every year. Q Doctor, in the exhibits that I've just given you, can you tell us the dates of the various exhibits? 1950, ‘51 --‘ pe.’ Weles - Rediréot | aa THE COURT: Doctor, if yqu refer to them by the number, exhibit number in the corner -- ‘THE WITHE! + Q-8 is 1959. D-8-A is 1951. . D-8-B is 1952. D-8-C ig 1953. D-8-D ig 1954. D-8-E is 1955. D-8-F ig 1957. D-8-G ig 1959. BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: o And throughout those years, were there any changes in the threshhold limit value for asbestos? No. And is that constancy reflected in these documents? Yes. er oP Who ia the chief editor of the Archives of Industrial Bygiene and Occupational Medicine? Philip Drinker. He was not a physician, was he? No. He was a professor at Harvard? rPere-, Yes.Dr. Weiss ~ Redirect . a4 a What was -- let ‘s refer to him as Professor Drinker so the Jury doesn't think he's a doctor -- Professor Drinker's standing in the medical and scientific community during this time period? a It was very high. He waa particularly renowned in the medical field, because he invented the first respirator, which was used for polio patients. 0 an iron lung? a The iron lung was what it was called, yes. o Doctor, looking at the threshhold limit values, which were published in 1953, can you give us the exhibit number that corresponds with 19537 A Yes. D-8-C. ¢ On the cover sheet, does it tell you who else is on the editorial board besides Dr. Drinker, Professor Drinker? a Yes. o Is there a Charles Shook on the editorial board? a Yes. o Doctor, 4id the names of the people who were involved in considering the threshhold limit values appear on the recommendations as published by the Archives of Industrial Rygiene and ocedpational Medicine? + arse ge a Yes.Dr. Weiss ~ Redirect 45 o Were they committee people? ry I don't know what you mean by “committee.” They belonged to a committee for the recommending of the threshhold limit values, I believe. Q Looking at the exhibit, which corresponds to the publication in 1985, can you give us the exhibit number for that? a That's D-8-E. o Can you tell us whether Qr. Arthur Vorwald was on the committee? x For 19557 Q In the 1955 publication. . MR, BYRQ: Youx Honor, I'm going to object to his simply reading from this document. I would like tq see the Court on another issue out of the presence of the Jury. THE COURT: Unxelated to this? i MR. BYRQ: Related to an earlier objection I had. THE COURT: Al right. (in-chambers discussion held off the record.) She and gentlemen, counsel andDr. Weiss - Redirect | 46 I have dome further discussions in this matter. 80 suppose we take a brief recess. ©” And during this recess, I'm going to ask you, do not discuss this case between or among yourselves; and do not talk with anyqne else about the case. De not form any opinions as to whether or not the plaintiff has proven his case or has not proven his case until you have heard all of the evidence, heard the final arguments of counsel and received your final instructions from me. 80 we'll take a short recess, which will bring Joy to Mrs. Tyson. (The Jury exita the courtroom.) THE COURT: Doctor, when.we resume, you'll be back on the witness stand. And you are not to discugs your testimony with anyone during this recess. (A brief recesa in the trial.) (The following constitutes an in-chambersDr. Weiss - Redirect « discussion as follows: | MR. BYRD: Your Honor, on yesterday I objected to Mr. Sohachtman's eliciting testimony regarding threshhold limit values, because, as I indicated to the Court, I deemed it irrelevant and inappropriate, even on the negligence count in this ca I've objected during the course of the doctor's testimony. 7 1, at this point, would ask the Court to sustain my objections ang to strike the responses thus far and to give a cautionary instruction to this Jury. Dr. Weiss was offered by Mr. Schachtman as a witness who would offer the Jury some enlightenment regarding state of the art at various times during the course of the period his clients developed asbestos products and prior thereto and subsequent. Thus far, the doctor has commenced his testimony in 1964, where he récognised an jooiation between asbestos exposure and cancer was firmly established, talked about the 1969 asbestos snow storm in center city, and read to the jury from documents handed him by counsel the threshhold limit values for various yeats, none of which is relevant to the issueDr. Wei ~ Redirect . 48 of reasonableness or causation, which is the focus of the negligence count. . I think that the doctor, offered as a state of the art witness, should concern himself with what was the medical knowledge at the appropriate times at issue. And I object to the manner in which the threshhold limit values have been elicited. And I object to the fact that it's being put before this Jury, because there is nothing on this record to tle that testimony to any defense that's proper under # negligence theory. ‘The doctor has not given me a report, which indicates that exposure to asbestos below the threshhold Limit value would not result in developing of asbestos- related diseas In fact, the report he relies on, the Dreessen report, wherein these values were established, states in one of its eight conclusions that asbestosis was observed in persons who had substantially less exposure than the threshhold limit value. 7 So ft think it’s confusing, misleading, irrelevant; and the Jury should not be confused with this information regarding threahhold limit values.Dr. Weiss - Redirect . 49 When the threshhold limit values articulated by Dreessen are at odds with what he has demonstrated in his report to be a level at which asbestos can cause disease -- MR. SCHACHTMAN: I undergtand Mr. Byrd -- him saying he thinks the Dreassen report was invalid. But the fact of the matter ig not only did Dr. sturyis say it was a good report, but that it suggested a tentative TLV of five million particules per cubic foot in 1938, which he then reaffirmed in 1939 without the tentativeness of his earlier cqnclusions, And that that held in the face of all of the subsequent medical literature until 1968 when there was a notice of intended change and it was reduced to two million particles per cubic foot or 12 fibers per milliliter in 1970, Dr. Sturgis talks about the TLVs. she says they were part of the state of the art. They formed people's understanding of the hasards as perceived at the time. I am not offering Dr. Weiss to say that if the TLV -- the old TLV, five million particles per cube foot, which held from 1938 to 1968 had been observed,Dr. Weiss - Redirect 50 then Mr. O'Donnell would not have any problems or any xisks of problens. Be will concede that we now know today that the TLV of five million particiles per cubic foot aid not protect Mr. O'Donnell sufficiently. The thing is, Mr, Hassardcestified that the TLVs were observed in our plants. ‘he reason he wasn't concerned about the Saronek (ph.) Lake studies was that the rate, hamsters and guinea pigs were being exposed to many, many times the TLV. And that it was his belief that the exposures to the men in the field were below the TLV, and that's why it wasn't upsetting. That's why people didn't get upset and try to do something about use of asbestos all those years. So noe This is not a surprise. Because Dr. Sturgis already talked about it. It's not a surprise, because it's in the medical literature. And we've all been fully informed of the medical literature and -- it's not a secret. This is in a journal published by Philip Drinker, It's in the journal that Katherine Sturgis took over in 1960, It's not a secret. Arthur Vorwald, who was the consultant atDr. Weiss - Redirect 51 Sazonek Lake, who is advising Owens-Illinois what to do was on that committee at a later point in time. x believe Thomas Mancuso may have been on that committee. zt had the’ full imprimatyé of the medical community. mt 5 and ‘what you want to do, .t think, is tell this Jury that éverydne and his brother knew that asbestos was hazardous, and not tell them the other side of the story, which was that there Were exposures, which were reasonably believed to be safe. And we've heard the doctars talk about those exposures and relationships, things like that, the more the dose, the more likely you are to see something. It was believed back then if the dose was kept low enough, you wouldn't see any response at all. I fully concede that was wrong, but it was reasonable at the time. THE COURT: ‘The Court 1s .of the opinion that the evidence regarding the TLVs is relevant on the nagligence issue in this case and will permit counsel to introduce that evidence. Again, the negligence portion of this case.Dr. Weiss - Redirect _ 32 We have two theories of liability here: Regligence and etrict liability, I'm not, as an aside, too sure that's not confusing to the Jury within itself. But, again, that's the tyo theories you're proceeding under. The negligence would deal with the conduct of the defendant at the time of the incident. It certainly may be relevant, what the defendants’ reasonably believed at the time of this ineident, going back to the time of the plaintife's exposure. 80, therefore, it's our apinion that this evidence is relevant on the negligence aspect of the case. ana, therefore, I'11 overrule your objection. WR. BYRD: Your Honor, would you note my continuing objection so X don't have to interrupt, not only to that which I've articulated specifically but with respect to handing this gentleman a document and having him flip through it? : eecie HE COURT: All right, © * Let me say this on the rqcord: I do have some problems with the way counsel is doing this. And it certainly may be objectionable to hand thie man aDr. Weiss - Redirect 53 document and ask him to flip through pages and tell us what this is. There is certainly a way of getting the evidence in; or, if he has to use the document, there are ways of doing that. But I do have a problem with the presentation. MR. SCHACHTMAN: I undergtand, and I think I had already spoken to that. I will attempt to elicit a firmer foundation for how I am doing it. THE COURT: All right. If you're dissatisfied with the foundation -- with the manner in which he lays a foundation, I think you better object. (In-chambers discussion qoncluded.) Repat “sae (Court reconvened.) (the Jury of 11 present in the courtroom.) MR, SCHACRIMAN: May I proceed? THE COURT: Yes. .Dr. Weiss ~ Redirect 34 BY MR, SCHACHTMAN: ° Dr. Weiss, before we recessed, I was asking your questions about threshhold limit values. Let me back up and ask yqu, what exactly is a threshhold limit value? ry It's an average cqncentration of toxic substance, which should not be exceeded. 0 What happens if it is exceeded? a ‘then toxic reactions are expected to occur above that level. 8 What happens if it's not exceeded? a Toxic reactions are not expected to occur. 0 te it a fine line? PEE Este MR, BYRD: Objection. THE COURT: Sugtained. Rephrase your question. BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: 7 o Can you explain to us how measurements of levels of exposure are evaluated under the threshhold limit value concept? a ‘They are evaluated by a review of all the relevant information in the literature with regard to the levels at which disease effects or untoward effects in humans occur. But also, based on animal studies.Dr. Weiss - Redirect 55 THE COURT: I'm sorry? THE WITNESS: Rased on animal studies, because there may not be human information; and so some -- a lot of information may deperid on the results of exposures to animals. BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: 0 I've already asked you what the thxeshhold limit value for asbestos was in the years 1950 to 1959. Let me ask you whether the journal the medical Journal it was published in was one that was respected at the time? i Fee n Yes. 2 > Lf o And would it be a series of publications, which experts in the field would consult to learn about asbestos and its potential hazards? Lh Yes. a Doctor, in 1960, what happened to the journal that had previously been named the Archives of Industrial Health or Industrial Hygiene and Occupational Medicine? a The editor changed. @ And who became the editor in 19607 a Dr. Sturgis. a And when did you become q member of the editorial board?Dr, Weiss - Redirect 36 a 1968. Q And, sir, do you know whether after 1960 when Dr. Sturgis became the editor, whether the threshhold limit values for asbestos were ever publighed in that journal? a I don't recall it being published. a Let me show you what I'm going to have marked as an exhibit, and see if it refreshes your recollection. (uxhidits marked D-9, D-Q-A and D-9-B for identification.) ¢ «> a4, MR. "BYR: Your Honc?', T.object. ‘there is e no indication that the witness’ recollection needs refreshing. MR, SCHACHTMAN: Your Honor, he just said he doesn't recall. ‘THE COURT: But there is a way of doing that, counsel. BY MR, SCHACRTMAN: a If Mrs, Thompson shows yqu what has been marked defense exhibits D-9, D-9-A, D-9-B, Doctor, would looking at past issues or copies of past issues help you in recalling whether or not Dr. Sturgis -- excuse me ~- the Archives ofDr. Weiss - Redirect: 37 Environmental Health at anytime after 1960 did include the TLV? MR. BYRD: Objaction. THE COURT: What basis? ‘MR. BYRD: Leading. MR. SCHACHTMAN: Your Honor, I believe to lay the foundation, I may ask a leading question. ‘11 rephrase it. THE COURT: Rephrase it. BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: 0 Doctor, would reviewing past issues of the Archives of Environmental Health {ssues help you in recalling the facts? MR. BYRD: Same objection. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Yes. MR, SCHACHTMAN:, Ms. Thompson, would you show Dr. Weiss articles, pleage. : BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: =. ve - @ Putting them aside, can you tell ne now, sir, whether uring the editorship of br. sturgis of the Archives of Environmental Health the threshhold limit values were ever published in that joumnal? A Yes. . . 0 And can you tell me for what years they were published?Dr. Weiss - Redirect 58 a They were published in 1960, 1963, 1964. o And, again, what was the reputation of the Archives of Environmental Health during the years that Dr. Stungis was the editor? . » It got better and better. o And would these journal articles be the kind of articl that would be sought out by experts in the field? a Yes. @ And, during those years, 1960, 1963, 1964, what was the threshhold limit value for asbestos? a Five million particles per cubic foot. o Do you know «hen, if at all, it was changed? a ‘The ACGIH made a proposal, in 1968 and ‘69 to change it in 1970 to fibers per cc. I think the level was 12. Q Twelve fibers? + a Yes. o Now, did -- MR. BYRD: Objection. Move to strike. ; If the doctor qan't tell us that this is, in fact, the number, his tegtimony doesn't aid us. Be thinks it might be, nqt sure. THE COURT: Sugtained.Dr. Weiss ~ Redirect $9 BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: a Doctor -- THE COURT: Digregard that last answer fron the doctor, ladies and gentlemen. MR. SCHACHTMAN, Excuse me. Your Honor, the entire answer? ‘THE COURT: What he thinks. BY MR. SCHACHTMAN: a Doctor, are you sure that -- of are you just unsure about when and how the threshhold limit value changed, a I'm sure it ws officdally changed in 1970. and it's the ACGIH's usual practice, the proposal to change it was published in the previous two years. I know it was well over five fibers per cc. a Is that the part you're unsure of? » Exactly what the level was above five fibers, I'm not. sure, : a In 1968, what was the threshhold limit value for asbestos? . a It was five million particles per cubic foot. o Now, you told us kefore that you had come to view -~ to what view about asbestos and lung dander in 1964? a That there was an established association between the€ Dr. Weiss - Redirect 61 I'm going to ask you done preliminary questions about D-10. 7 ety (a document marked D-10 for identification.) BY MR, SCHACHTMAN: a Dr. Weiss, Mrs. Thompson was kind enough to hand you D-10. First, can you tell me whether you know that article? a Yes. Qo When did you first become familiar with this article? a I'm not sure when I first saw it. It appeared in 19 -- the last day in 1955. And I must have seen it sometime after that, but I don't remember when. Doctor, was -- do you recognise the authors? Yes. And who are the authors? _ re Fr © ‘The first author is Irving J. Selikoff, who was a Pulmonary specialist and got into epidemiology. MR. BYRD: I'm.sorry, six. I didn't hear the answer. ‘THR WITNESS: §elikoff was a pulmonary specialist, who then later got into epdemiological“pr. Weles - Redirect 62 research. Jacob Churg waa the pathglogist at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York whexe Selikoff was on the staff. And £.C, Hammond, that's Cuyler Hammond, who was the director af research for the American Cancer -- he was a biostatistician instead of physician) and they worked together on this problem. BY MR, SCHACHTMAN: a Did you know these gentlemen? a X know Selikoff and I knew Hammond. He's dead now. I never met Jacob Churg. 9 Doctor, is this article published in the open medical literature? Was it published back in 1965 -- AL Yes. It was published in a volume -- one of many that the New York Academy of Sciences puts out covering the papers presented at various meetings that organization sponsors. a Doctor, at that time were the authors considered to be experts in the field of epidemiology and the effects of asbestos on health? a Hammond was an expert in epidemiology. Churg was a pathologist. Selikoff was a pulmonary specialist, and he began to do epidemiology about this time. 0 Do you know how he got involved in the epidemiology ofDr. Weise - Redirect 63 asbestos? a I really don't know the details; but I believe he was seeing patients who had asbestos-related diseases as part of his pulmonary practice in the 60's. And then he was asked by the union to investigate it further. a Is the article in front of you that's been marked D-10 the report of his investigations? a Well, it's one of them. o And at that time was it considered an authoritative statement of what people were thinking about the hazards of asbestos? a Yes. Q Doctor, I call your attention to page 139 -- excuse me. Let's start at 141, if yqu would, of Exhibit D=10. Looking at the first full paragraph, does Dr. Belikoff and his colleagues make any mention about the nature of asbestos exposure that insulators had? a Yes. MR. BYRQ: Objection to xeading the report. This is his witness. KR. SCHACHTMAN, Your Honor, this is exactly what Dr. sturgis did for several days. It was anDr. Weise - Redirect . oe authoritative piece of information at the time. ‘THE COURT: Suatained --.1'm sorry -~ overruled. BY AR, SCHACHTMAN: 6 Dr. Weiss, what did Dr. Selikoff in this article state about how people viewed asbestos exposure insulators ).) at that time in 1965? a He states that the exposure was limited and intermittent. NR, BYRD: I'm.sorry. . What are you reading from? MR. SCHACHTMAN, Page 141, first full paragraph. BY MR, SCHACHIMAN: e Dr. Weiss, at page 142, does Dr. gelikoff explain under “Present investigation* what exactly he was doing in this artiole? , a Yes. 7 H o Would you read to the members of the Jury what he vas up to? peEEeEEEt 4 a “We undertook to atady the question whether asbestos exposure during insulation work in the U.8. was associated with the hasard of asbestosis and its complications.” a And looking at, again, the same page, does Dr. Selikoff give any -- his view of what the exposures were that insulators were having in the first full paragraph of that page?pr. Weiss ~ Redirect 6s ve i said that thera wasn’t such information on ity but, generally, counts for asbestos fibers have been within the five million particles pér cubic foot maximum permissible concentration of the ACGIH. a Doctor, turning to the very end of the article, page 154 in the references, reference 29 -+ a Yes. o Ys that the article sometimes known as the Pleischer/ Drinker Report? a Yes. o And was Dr. Selikeff citing the Fleischer/Drinker Report? a Yes. 0 Dr. Weiss, are you familiar with the research that was done by an industrial hygienist and physician, Mr. Leroy Balser and Dr. Clark Cooper? a x o Can you tell us when -- qan you tell us the nature of the research they did on determining the nature of exposure of insulators? PS x My menory is incomplete, but they did some measurements of the expoaures to asbestos found during insulation,Dr. Weiss - Redirect 66 work. 0 If I showed you a copy of an article by Mr. Dr. Cooper, might that refresh your recollection? a Yes. (A document marked D-11 for identification.) BY MR, SCHACHTMAN: o Dr. Weiss, if you would, take a iook at what's been marked D-11, and then put it aside -- no. No. After you've had a chance to look. Be : Doctor, while you are Looking, let me ask you, what was the reputation of Dr. Clark Cooper in 1968 when he published that article? a Good reputation, 9 And do you recognize the journal in which that was published? a American Industrial Hygiene Association -- yes. 0 Was that a reputable journal in 1968? a Yes. : a And was that article in that journal an article that experts in the field would consult for information about what was known and knowable in 1968?Dr. Weiss ~ Redirect 67 a Yes. a Doctor, calling your attention to page 227 of that article, does Mr. Balzer and Dr. Cooper make any comment about -- in the left-hand column about the nature of exposure of insulators? h ve ‘They said, "Breathings on dust levels found in the dustiest operations were not as high as the incidence of Pneumoconiosis may have led us to expect. some sample areas exceeded the present limit threshhold value. However, these samples were not for extended periods of time. Although, we attempted to sample the dustiest operations, the time-weighted averages for dust samples containing asbestos would probably not exceed the TLV in mogt situations, even on ships. This conforms to findings by Eleischer, et al., by Marr and by Leathart and Sanderson and to recently reported findings by Yerris, who last year reported studies in the sane shipyards earlier appraised by Fleischer." | 9 And 1s the reference to Eletecher there the sane Pleischer/Drinker Report? : a x o And when was that published? a This paper? :Dr. Weiss - Redirect 68 o No, I'm sorry. Does the footnate tell yqu when Fleischer published his paper? a Yes. 1946, o And what was the title, for the members of the Jury, of this article? h The title was "The Work Environment of Insulating Workers. eo Doctor, I'm going to hand you what I would ask to have marked as Exhibit D-12. (A document marked D-12 for identification.) BY MR. GHACHTMAN: 0 Dr. Weiss, do yok recognize the éocument which has been marked D-127 ry Yess fo _ : : © ° Can you tell us what Journal it was published in? a ‘This was published in the Archives of Environmental Realth in 1972. o Was this while Dr. Sturgis was the editor? » No. It was the first year after the end of her editorialship o Was it still a respected journal? » Yes.