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subject:advaita-l digest, vol 56, issue 4
to:advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org
date:thu, 06 dec 2007 12:00:01 -0600
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today's topics:

1. re: advaita in one sloka (guy werlings)

2. re: importance of ashram (karthik subramanian)
3. conduct of swamijis (was re: importance of ashram)
(siva senani nori)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

message: 1
date: wed, 5 dec 2007 19:55:13 +0100
from: "guy werlings" <werlings.guy@wanadoo.fr>
subject: re: [advaita-l] advaita in one sloka
to: "a discussion group for advaita vedanta"
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id: <000301c83770$5eadc350$0a01a8c0@guy>
content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252";
reply-type=original

shrii s.n. sastri mahodaya |

namo namah |

thank you very much for having pointed out for all of us the
enlightening
verse of the narayaniyam (98.7).

i decided to copy your quotation in a separate file in order to be able

to
use it also at a later time. moreover, i also tried to convert it into
devanagari by using itranslator; but the result was not up to my
expectations. i suspected and easily came to the conclusion that your
encoding was not pure itrans but a mix of several encoding systems,
especially for the sibilant sh (instead of shh or sh) and the vowel ri
(r
instead of r^i or rr).

if i am right, to be read properly by itranslator the text of the

shloka in
itrans should have been:

bhushhasu svarnavadva jagati ghatasaravadike mr^ittikavat

tattve sa~ncintyamane sphurati tadadhunapyadvitiyam vapuste |

svapnadrashhtuh prabodhe timiralayavidhau yadva-

dvidyalabhe tathaiva sphutamapi vikaset kr^ishhna tasmai namaste ||

instead of

bhushasu svarnavadva jagati ghatasaravadike mrttikavat

tattve sancintyamane sphurati tadadhunapyadvitiyam vapuste |

svapnadrashtuh prabodhe timiralayavidhau yadva-

dvidyalabhe tathaiva sphutamapi vikaset krshna tasmai namaste ||

i do apologize for being once more the hair-splitter and fussy member
of the
list. any person proficient in sanskrit will have of course corrected
these
minor defects straight and by himself (without waiting for me), but
this
finicky message may also perhaps be of some help for others and namely
beginners in sanskrit. i do hope my attempt will not be misinterpreted.

yours in lord guruvayurappan!

guy werlings

----- original message -----

from: "s.n. sastri" <sn.sastri@gmail.com>
to: <advaitin@yahoogroups.com>; <advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
sent: wednesday, december 05, 2007 3:04 pm
subject: [advaita-l] advaita in one sloka

the essence of advaita vedanta is given in a nutshell in the following

sloka
in narayaniyam of narayana bhattatiri (dasaka 98, sloka 7):--

bhushasu svarnavadva jagati ghatasaravadike mrttikavat

tattve sancintyamane sphurati tadadhunapyadvitiyam vapuste |

svapnadrashtuh prabodhe timiralayavidhau yadva-

dvidyalabhe tathaiva sphutamapi vikaset krshna tasmai namaste ||

tattve sancintyamane- when one reflects on the true nature of things,

bhushasu svarnavadva?like gold in ornaments, or,
ghatasaravadike?in pots and other vessels, mrttikavat?like clay,
jagati- in the universe,
tat advitiyam te vapuh?that non-dual aspect of thine (alone),
adhuna api?even now (when we experience the universe as existing),
sphurati- shines.
svapnadrashtuh- for the dreamer,
prabodhe- on waking up,
timiralayavidhau?when the darkness is removed (by light),
jirnarajjoh ca- of the worn-out rope also,
yadvat tatha eva?in the same way itself,
vidyalabhe?on the dawn of knowledge,
sphutam vikaset api?the reality will also shine clearly,
(he) krshna, tasmai te namah?o krshna, prostrations to thee, who art
that
(the reality).

when one reflects on the true nature of things, one will realize
that,
just as there is nothing but gold in all gold ornaments, and nothing
but
clay in all pots and other earthen vessels, so also, there is only thy
non-dual self in reality even when this universe is seen as existing.
this
reality will shine clearly on the dawn of knowledge, just as the things
seen
in a dream are found, on waking up, to have never existed and the
worn-out
rope (which was mistaken for a snake) is seen clearly when the darkness
is
removed by a light. o krshna, prostrations to thee who art that
reality.
s.n.sastri
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message: 2
date: thu, 6 dec 2007 04:52:26 +0000 (gmt)
from: karthik subramanian <karthikvathula@yahoo.com>
subject: re: [advaita-l] importance of ashram
to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id: <113395.58224.qm@web36407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

hi,

i don't think i stated that the guidance of a guru is not necessary

for enlightenment. on the contrary, it is my firm belief that just with
the grace of the guru, the highest knowledge is conferred upon the
sadhaka. i seemed to infer from anuj's message that some spiritual giants
attained enlightenment without the interference of a guru. that was the
reason for my questions. even though ramana maharshi was not guided by
a physical guru, he says that it was arunachaleshwara who graced him as
a guru in aksharamanamalai.
 || na guror adhikam tatvam na guror adhikam tapah ||

regards,
karthik

krishnamurthy ramakrishna <puttakrishna@verizon.net> wrote:

hi karthik,
ramana maharshi also was enlightened out of his own experience.
enlightening
out of one's own experience is advaita. if a guru is not the
instrument,
it does not mean there was no hand of guru; it goes without saying that
the
guru led him up to that stage in the prior life or lives. all that was
needed in that particular life was a trigger to bring out that
experience
and enlightenment. the role of a guru is never overstated. can you
receive
a phd degree without the advice of a phd or equivalent experience?
regards,
krishnamurthy ramakrishna.

-----original message-----
from: advaita-l-bounces@lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces@lists.advaita-vedanta.org] on behalf of
karthik
subramanian
sent: wednesday, december 05, 2007 8:18 am
to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta
subject: re: [advaita-l] importance of ashram

hi,

@anuj

>> from budha, to ramakrishna to christ, they all grew out of their own
knowledge to become enlightened. <<

few questions:-

1. if all these grew out of their own knowledge to become enlightened

and
if you intend to quote that as example, why ever do you need to go and
study
under swami parthasarathi?

2. does this mean that the role of a guru is overdefined?

3. could you please elaborate on the enlightenment of the buddha and

the
christ?

by the way, sri ramakrishna indeed became enlightened out of his own
knowledge, but he received guidance from three great masters - bhairavi
brahmani, totapuri, and last but not least, bhavatharani.
@jagan

>> for all that you know the sringeri swamiji may not even admit
someone
that is not a brahmana or not done veda adhyayana <<

what makes you so sure about this?

>> hh chandrasekhara bharathi swamigal himself has said that advaita

cannot be taught but only experienced. in one of the quotes he mentions
to
an aspirant that he may at best clarify some grammar of the vedic texts
but
cannot teach advaita. <<

isn't there any extent to interpret the words of a world-renowned

jivanmukta in a literal way?

hh chandrashekhara bharathi need not had to utter a word. just a brief

glance of his conferred the highest knowledge on several people. the
erstwhile peetadhipathi of sri yoganandeshwara saraswathi mutt,
yedatore,
sri ganapathi bharati was one such person that had this good fortune. a
very
ordinary patashala vidyarthi that he was, a glance from hh changed his
whole
life. he attained vast knowledge of the veda, vedantha and shastra. he
is
known his knowledge of purvamimamsa and for the performance of several
mahayagnas like the garudachayana and darshapurnamasa. after becoming a
turiyashrami, he shone as one of the greatest realized masters.

@ravi

>> when i look at the videos in sringeri's website or any others in

which
sringeri swamiji appears, he is often flocked by priests or brahmins
only,
and seems to maintain quite a bit of physical distance between himself
and
devotees. i cannot help wondering if adi shankara himself laid down
such
laws to be followed by all the leaders of the shankara matha in
subsequent
years. if a book listing such laws does exist, can someone please point
the
same
to me? <<

the following is quoted (edited by me for brevity) from a discussion at

www.kanchiforum.org/forum/

----------- "abrahmakita janani" -- a namavali in lalitha sahasranamam.

the nama next to this is varnasramavidhayini. combining these two
names,
periyavaal (kanchi paramacharya) answered a question.

periyavaal was giving darshan. a bhakta asked: "since lalitha

 sahasrananam
mentions that ambaal is the mother of all this world we all become
sahodharas. if this is so, why to move with some people without
physically
coming in touch with them or touching them? how is this untouchability
appropriate?"
periyavaal: for this question the answer is in the very next namavali.
"ambaal who is the mother of everyone has also established the
regulation of
varnasrama. she is also the varnasramavidhayini ! -----------

|| labhed vanchitartham padam brahmasamjnam guroruktavakye mano yasya

lagnam ||

regards,
karthik

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message: 3
date: wed, 5 dec 2007 23:05:44 -0800 (pst)
from: siva senani nori <sivasenani@yahoo.com>
subject: [advaita-l] conduct of swamijis (was re: importance of
ashram)
to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id: <440693.62620.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

----- original message ----

from: ravi parimi rparimi@gmail.com

don't mean to begin a flame-war here, but isn't it ironic that an

institute that is committed to spreading the knowledge of vedanta and
supposedly abides in the fact "sarvam khalvidam brahma" bases so many
of its actions on caste? when i look at the videos in sringeri's
website or any others in which sringeri swamiji appears, he is often
flocked by priests or brahmins only, and seems to maintain quite a
bit of physical distance between himself and devotees. i cannot help
wondering if adi shankara himself laid down such laws to be followed
by all the leaders of the shankara matha in subsequent years. if a
book listing such laws does exist, can someone please point the same
to me?

dear ravi garu

i write with great respect towards your actual practice of learning the
sruti through international calls.

i am not sure that the main purpose of the various mutts is to spread
the knowledge of vedanta; i think it is the upholding of dharma, which
has the varna-asrama dharma as its bedrock in practice, so to speak.
(this qualifier is required because ultimately the virtues of ahimsa,
asteya etc. are the more important aspects of practice; but since they are
not tangible and not amenable to criticism - they are the same in
buddhism as well - critics ignore them.) the various pithadhipatis have
elaborated many times on this seeming contradiction between the teaching of
vedanta and the practice of varna dharma. they are quite open about it
and do not claim to uphold anything different. that said, the bhaktas
are always referred to as the chaturvarnya bhaktas of so and so master.
and, in intimate personal matters, brahmins are not very different
from others. for instance, pithadhipatis usually do not take food from all
brahmins (even if they are smartas, or
belong to the same school in case of jeers etc.); nobody touches the
pithadhipati's feet during padabhivandanam, and so on.

we are not a people of the book, in so many senses. to the best of my

knowledge, the bhagavatpada did not lay down any rules of conduct for
the pithadhipatis, or for that matter, for those of other ashramas. that
had been done by sages like apastamba, gautama and bodhayana, who are
all very particular about the varnasrama dharma. the authority of those
sages flows from the vedas, and the sruti itself says (in taittiriya
upanishad, siksha valli, in the penultimate anuvaka) that in case of
doubt as to what dharma is, the practice of learned and respected brahmins
is the guide. as such, the guiding principle of the practices of
pithadhipatis, to the extent i heard and understood, is to lay down the
standard for other sanatins to follow - and not the requirements or
sanctions of their ashrama (sannyasa). the socialist in me has often been told
by my elders to try to follow the example of these great living sages
in terms of personal discipline, control of
anger and the other enemies, love to all, detachment etc. rather than
focus on what is wrong in eating with mlechcha colleagues at office.
i hope this helps.

senani

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