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Please Explain The Principle of Weak InFeed Echo Permissive Over Reach Transfer Trip Schemes - Valence Electrical Training Services
Please Explain The Principle of Weak InFeed Echo Permissive Over Reach Transfer Trip Schemes - Valence Electrical Training Services
Most line distance protection schemes assume that the system will always
be able to supply enough amps to make the relays trip. However, there are
many scenarios on transmission systems across the world where you could
have a strong source on one end of a transmission line with a weak source
on the other, and this configuration could prevent the protective relay(s)
from operating the way we would expect them to.
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10/30/23, 2:51 PM Please Explain the Principle of Weak InFeed Echo Permissive Over Reach Transfer Trip Schemes? • Valence Electrical Training …
RLY-1 would:
which means that RLY-1 does not see the fault and does nothing while
RLY-2 opens BKR2 after the normal time delay for Zone 2. (around 20
cycles)
This is not an ideal situation. There is a fault on the line and BKR1 is still
closed. If we bring the generator up to speed and close the generator
breaker, we will close the generator onto a fault. The fault was also
connected to the system for 20 cycles, which was plenty of time to cause
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10/30/23, 2:51 PM Please Explain the Principle of Weak InFeed Echo Permissive Over Reach Transfer Trip Schemes? • Valence Electrical Training …
We need RLY-1 to recognize that there is a fault on the line, even if the
generator breaker is open. Fortunately, there are numerous ways for relays
The fault hasn’t changed since the first example, but both breakers opened
after a very short time delay with the new Weak Infeed logic. In this
RLY-1 would:
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10/30/23, 2:51 PM Please Explain the Principle of Weak InFeed Echo Permissive Over Reach Transfer Trip Schemes? • Valence Electrical Training …
RLY-2 would:
then open BRK2 based on a permissive trip instead of waiting for the
Zone-2 time delay.
This system works great when BKR-3 is open, but generators typically do
not have a lot of fault capacity compared to the system. The generator side
could still be considered weak when the breaker is closed because of its
relatively weak ability to contribute to a fault. We would be right back at
square one if this was the only aspect of Weak Infeed protection schemes,
and the generator breaker was closed.
over the last 100 years or so. Everyone knows that a fault will cause the
measured current to increase in proportion to the severity of the fault, but
that doesn’t happen in isolation. The faulted voltage is also affected.
The faulted voltage will decrease. The actual fault voltage will be
proportional to the distance from the potential transformers (PTs) the relay
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10/30/23, 2:51 PM Please Explain the Principle of Weak InFeed Echo Permissive Over Reach Transfer Trip Schemes? • Valence Electrical Training …
uses to measure the system voltage. The fault voltage will be zero if the
fault is on top of the PTs, and will grow as the fault gets farther away.
Therefore, we can set an undervoltage element to operate if the voltage
drops enough to signal a fault that is closer to the weak side. That
undervoltage can be added to the Weak Infeed logic as shown below.
The fault hasn’t changed since the first example, but both breakers opened
after a very short time delay with the new Weak Infeed logic even though
the generator breaker is now closed. In this scenario, RLY-2 would:
RLY-1 would:
RLY-2 would:
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10/30/23, 2:51 PM Please Explain the Principle of Weak InFeed Echo Permissive Over Reach Transfer Trip Schemes? • Valence Electrical Training …
We now have a flexible solution, but have introduced a new problem. What
will happen if the fault is on the generator side?
BKR1 and BKR2 would both operate because none of the conditions in our
Weak Infeed logic have changed. We need a way to block the infeed logic
when the fault is not on the protected transmission line. Can RLY-1 tell
whether the fault is on the line, or behind RLY-1 near the generator?
The Zone-3 protection element is set to detect faults behind the relay, and
we need to add it to the Weak Infeed protection scheme to prevent the
Echo signal from being sent if the fault is behind the relay as shown in the
following diagram.
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10/30/23, 2:51 PM Please Explain the Principle of Weak InFeed Echo Permissive Over Reach Transfer Trip Schemes? • Valence Electrical Training …
but the relay’s Zone-3 element has picked up and prevented the Echo
permissive from being sent. This new piece to our logic scheme now
prevents the Weak Infeed scheme from operating for faults that are not on
the transmission line. Some engineers try to make it even more secure by
adding a Zone-2 block for Weak Infeed logic as well.
If we move the fault back onto the line, Zone-3 does not pickup and the
These are the basic essentials of Weak Infeed Echo Permissive Protection
schemes. I hope I was able to answer Rahim’s question adequately.
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Please feel free to comment below if you have more questions about this
scheme, or have something new to add.
Have a burning question you want answered? Go to the Ask Chris form
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William Madzikanda
July 25, 2015 at 6:42 am
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Reply
shafie
November 19, 2016 at 11:59 am
your excellent answer is very appreciated , thank you for this effort
Reply
Nagoor
October 26, 2017 at 7:29 am
confusing little.
When we have to select POTT scheme instead of PUTT scheme.
Why PUTT scheme send Z2 pickup to remote end while local breaker
is tripped by Zone-1 pickup.
Reply
Chris Werstiuk
October 26, 2017 at 9:00 am
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10/30/23, 2:51 PM Please Explain the Principle of Weak InFeed Echo Permissive Over Reach Transfer Trip Schemes? • Valence Electrical Training …
his video
Reply
Diego
December 7, 2017 at 4:57 pm
Hi, thanks for the explanation. If the fault is located near to the highest
infeed, how is going to work Pott with the weak infeed principle? And
how it work the underreaching with extended zone scheme with the
weak infeed principle? Thanks you and sorry for the grammatical
mistakes, I’m still learning English.
Reply
hassan
May 6, 2018 at 5:31 pm
Reply
Hassan
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Reply
Chris Werstiuk
June 19, 2018 at 5:22 pm
Thanks!
Reply
MAHMOUD Elkassas
August 8, 2018 at 3:28 pm
Reply
Bayo
August 27, 2018 at 5:08 am
Thank you Mr Chris for a this simple and clear presentation of this
subject matter. Kudos to you once again.
Reply
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sha farhang
June 2, 2020 at 11:35 am
Reply
VASUDEVAN
July 29, 2020 at 5:12 am
element Zone 3 is picked up which blocks echo trip being sent back to
strong source Breaker 2 and trip will not take place. Please send
Reply
Chris Werstiuk
July 29, 2020 at 7:49 am
Thanks for your comment, but I do not know what you are referring
Reply
VASUDEVAN
July 30, 2020 at 5:51 am
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Reply
Chris Werstiuk
July 31, 2020 at 7:50 am
Please quote the exact part of the post you don’t agree with
and why you don’t agree.
Reply
Joe
June 30, 2021 at 6:28 am
fault.
The lack of an I/T receive does not restrict Relay 2 Zone 2 element
from operating normally.
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Reply
Reply
Chris Werstiuk
July 31, 2021 at 8:44 pm
Reply
Hà Nguyễn
October 14, 2022 at 8:22 am
Reply
Hà Nguyễn
October 14, 2022 at 8:34 pm
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10/30/23, 2:51 PM Please Explain the Principle of Weak InFeed Echo Permissive Over Reach Transfer Trip Schemes? • Valence Electrical Training …
First, why if a fault near the BKR1 then RLY-1 is not pick up? Whether
50 elements are not enough current to pick up (i.e., 50FP setting of
SEL421 relay)?
Secondly, what happens if BKR3, BKR4 trip while BKR1 is still open
Reply
Chris Werstiuk
October 15, 2022 at 2:09 pm
The other two breakers should only trip for faults in their zone of
protection or as backup protection for 1 & 2 if they fail to clear the
fault.
Reply
Witness
January 25, 2023 at 6:18 am
Can you please explain in the line parameters what does it mean by
Reply
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Chris Werstiuk
January 25, 2023 at 5:30 pm
generator.
All three connections are correct because any current flowing into
the generator will flow into the odd terminal numbers.
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because they are on the opposite side. This would be the normal
connection you would see on most drawings and its easy to see
that the current flowing into the generator is also flowing into the
odd terminals on the relay
the star point of the CTs is on the opposite side. But it still works
(towards the line). However, the polarity marks are facing towards
the protected device, so this connection does not follow the NA
into the generator is also flowing into the odd terminals on the relay
and this connection will work fine.
Reply
Al Khattab Al Riyami
March 14, 2023 at 2:01 pm
Reply
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Cut
2. how we can avoid hours
them of struggle
in settings offway, what is the
or any other
basic behind currentyour
currentnext testing
reversal job
Reply
Chris Werstiuk
July 19, 2023 at 7:34 am
Name
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Type Here...
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